**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 18 02:59:59 2007 Sep 18 03:16:41 <|R> Sep 18 03:31:27 cesarb - that patch worked, thanks Sep 18 06:11:35 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html Sep 18 06:15:25 wtf Sep 18 06:15:34 what's this http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/ind Sep 18 06:15:42 spam Sep 18 06:16:13 flash-based sim city? Sep 18 06:17:03 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html ieehhh .. finally Trolltech found the GTA Sep 18 06:17:39 hmm, i think im wrong, maybe just a representation of an existing city or something :) Sep 18 06:18:05 ljp: Interesting, the more the merrier :) Sep 18 06:21:15 what's your favorite photo gallery application? Sep 18 06:22:11 heh @ idea of ROTARY dialer app Sep 18 06:22:27 * Psi is reading the community list Sep 18 06:22:29 Psi: there is some value in a non-grid arrangement of dialer input Sep 18 06:22:39 id agree there Sep 18 06:22:48 people have done research in the past and found a grid sucks for humans in some ways Sep 18 06:23:24 i think the guy on the list was suggesting a old rotary pulse dialing like control :P Sep 18 06:24:27 I'd like to see a 'dasher' interface... Sep 18 06:24:54 has anything happened in the past week, ive not been in here Sep 18 06:25:26 any new apps, critical bugs fixed etc. Sep 18 06:25:48 I noticed that alphaone checked in navit last night :) Sep 18 06:26:34 And the mediaplayer is in the default image it seems Sep 18 06:26:48 gsmd got some fixes Sep 18 06:27:03 though they didnt work for me, ihave to check mickey|zzZZzz's next build i guess Sep 18 06:27:11 nice Sep 18 06:27:31 Still not working for me. Only one image I've ever been able to call with, and that was two weeks ago Sep 18 06:27:52 I haven't had any icons in the panel lately either Sep 18 06:28:16 http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Sep 18 06:30:25 i'm thinking neo is just too good of a platform to miss Sep 18 06:31:12 too much traction to miss too :-) Sep 18 06:32:43 :) Sep 18 06:37:23 I can get to trolltech ftp server Sep 18 06:54:37 moin Sep 18 06:57:40 moin? Sep 18 07:01:20 good morning Sep 18 07:01:54 Good morning to you too :) Sep 18 07:07:31 good morning ;-) Sep 18 07:11:47 qtopia goes gpl http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/09/18/qtopia-phone-is-completely-gpl/ Sep 18 07:12:13 :o Sep 18 07:12:39 you mean we might get working software! Sep 18 07:13:01 we might ;9 Sep 18 07:13:04 good to see they're supproting the neo though Sep 18 07:13:08 supporting Sep 18 07:13:48 so, surely now that it's gpl - I should be able to just dl a copy Sep 18 07:14:36 when they say 'completely' they mean all of it everything , the whole chicken Sep 18 07:14:37 ? Sep 18 07:14:45 oh and they have ported it to neo Sep 18 07:14:51 so where's the image Sep 18 07:15:36 buz: Ask ljp ;) Sep 18 07:15:41 should be here at end of oct... Sep 18 07:15:48 they need a mirror Sep 18 07:15:51 or two Sep 18 07:15:54 morning CM Sep 18 07:16:01 Good morning Sep 18 07:16:02 uhm how about sourceforge ;) Sep 18 07:16:03 yes, everything Sep 18 07:16:54 but qtopia renders to the framebuffer directly, right? Sep 18 07:17:00 yes Sep 18 07:17:16 which is kinda sad considering we get a gpu real soon now (tm) Sep 18 07:17:19 Preview-image for the openmoko ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/tech-preview/ (can't connect right now) Sep 18 07:18:15 i haven tyet uploaded the flash image Sep 18 07:19:06 * ScaredyCat pokes ljp until it's done Sep 18 07:20:27 its a long way from australia to oslo Sep 18 07:21:56 lol Sep 18 07:22:06 and ping times suck Sep 18 07:22:59 Using RFC 1149 or what? Sep 18 07:24:36 hehehe CPIP =) Sep 18 07:24:47 carrier pigeon Sep 18 07:26:20 http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ Sep 18 07:26:53 i still think htey have way to much time on their hands in .no ;) Sep 18 07:27:36 ScaredyCat: I know they do ;) Sep 18 07:27:44 :) Sep 18 07:28:10 * CM watches them sit back and pump up all that oil Sep 18 07:28:35 allright: checking for jpeg_destroy_decompress in -ljpeg... no Sep 18 07:28:59 apt-get install ...? what? Sep 18 07:29:51 have they made my new car yet CM ? Sep 18 07:29:54 someone integrated a new package - now I have to install a new library -right? Sep 18 07:30:20 ScaredyCat: Nope, they're out of the v8 engines ;) Sep 18 07:30:39 bah! Sep 18 07:30:42 RalphEichelberge, libgtk2.0-dev Sep 18 07:30:50 I thought you were supposed to stop that happening Sep 18 07:30:53 thx Any_key! Sep 18 07:31:18 ScaredyCat: I am, but the last 4 weeks are up to the factory :) Sep 18 07:31:37 no - thats allready here Sep 18 07:31:49 any suggestions, guys? Sep 18 07:31:59 so it's not going to happen again then ... promise? ;) Sep 18 07:33:08 RalphEichelberge: this help? http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-list/2005-January/msg00176.html Sep 18 07:33:45 RalphEichelberge: What about libjpeg? I think it's called jpeg only in gentoo at least Sep 18 07:34:41 i am running ubuntu Sep 18 07:34:58 and there is no libjpeg / libjpg / jpeg Sep 18 07:35:07 i tried that allready Sep 18 07:35:47 isnt there a kinf of depenency for new integrated packages/moduls? Sep 18 07:35:52 kind* Sep 18 07:36:19 JPEG loader will not be build Sep 18 07:36:47 RalphEichelberge: search the ubuntu package database Sep 18 07:36:54 packages.ubuntu.com Sep 18 07:37:33 RalphEichelberge: It's increadible how much trouble you have building it. Must be something rotten with that computer you're on. ;) Sep 18 07:37:45 libgtk2.0-dev pulls also libatk1.0-dev libcairo2-dev Sep 18 07:37:45 libpango1.0-dev Sep 18 07:38:19 mesages on the ml Sep 18 07:49:59 downloads.openmoko.org broken yet again? Sep 18 07:50:03 I installed mlibjpeg-dev now - i'll let you know if it does the trick Sep 18 07:50:19 all that money spent on a new getup and it's still bloody useless Sep 18 07:51:14 sorry it was mlibjpegtools Sep 18 07:51:37 and libjpeg62-dev Sep 18 07:53:06 seems do work :) Sep 18 07:55:48 ScaredyCat, perhaps it just needs to be tweaked Sep 18 07:56:09 it needs a damn good kicking Sep 18 08:16:01 Anyone else flashing the Neo from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ and noticed startup times of more than 3 minutes? Sep 18 08:18:33 abraxa_: I build my own image yesterday, and yes it was awfully slow to start up Sep 18 08:18:55 can you get a new bootchart for it? Sep 18 08:22:14 is there a way to "mount -t jffs2 " the build image? Sep 18 08:23:58 RalphEichelberge: I've seen people discuss it here, and theremight be something about it in the wiki Sep 18 08:25:07 Actually, my Neo hung... no way does it take > 10 minutes to load Sep 18 08:25:16 RalphEichelberge: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image Sep 18 08:27:05 i found a wiki at maemo.org/community/wiki/ModifyingRootImage, but I dont know if thats what i need? Sep 18 08:27:55 RalphEichelberge: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image Sep 18 08:29:06 CM: whoops, didn't read everything :) Sep 18 08:29:11 RalphEichelberge: Usually, this is a good tool for searching: http://google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw Sep 18 08:29:14 well thx - seems the right one Sep 18 08:39:56 hi Sep 18 08:40:14 I finally made GPRS connection with my neo Sep 18 08:40:28 just curious: can anyone tell me where the includes from the target can be found? Sep 18 08:40:51 hey zdanedk! cooool :) Sep 18 08:40:54 with help of SettingsGUI - not wiki Sep 18 08:41:00 this description sux Sep 18 08:41:13 i will fix it when i will have some spare time Sep 18 08:41:17 what do you mean? Sep 18 08:41:36 I tried many times to make GPRS conn with wiki description Sep 18 08:41:43 never succeded Sep 18 08:41:49 change the wiki! Sep 18 08:41:53 do it now" Sep 18 08:41:57 please Sep 18 08:42:02 nope, I'm in work Sep 18 08:42:04 no time Sep 18 08:42:18 but I'm here to ask who is the author of SettingsGUI Sep 18 08:42:22 what settings did you give to SettingsGUI? Sep 18 08:42:32 I'd like to thank to him and to provide patch for SettingsGUI Sep 18 08:42:36 there's a bug Sep 18 08:42:45 with dial string Sep 18 08:43:01 kristian-m is the author Sep 18 08:43:04 it can be corrected in pppparser.py (or something) Sep 18 08:43:10 is he here? Sep 18 08:43:26 kristian-m Sep 18 08:43:26 drop him an email Sep 18 08:43:35 his user is kriss on the wiki Sep 18 08:44:01 did you use my repository to install settings GUI? Sep 18 08:44:35 zdanek: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 :) Sep 18 08:47:13 zdanek: can I try the patch as well? Sep 18 08:47:52 Ghiottone: ofcourse Sep 18 08:48:10 let me check upload the file to the net Sep 18 08:48:20 s/check// Sep 18 08:48:21 zdanek meant: let me upload the file to the net Sep 18 08:48:56 CM: you meant to show me kriss details? Sep 18 08:49:42 no. Sep 18 08:49:49 I should vote - sure Sep 18 08:54:05 guys, here's fixed SettingsGUI GPRS parser Sep 18 08:54:06 http://www.openmoko.org.pl/packages/pppdConfigParser.py Sep 18 08:54:55 put it in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/SettingsGUI Sep 18 08:55:31 Ghiottone: got it? Sep 18 08:56:14 if you want to make sucessful connection put *99# number in "number" field Sep 18 08:56:24 sometimes it needs a few tries Sep 18 08:56:54 zdanek: yes thanks. I'll give it a try after work Sep 18 08:57:21 CM: thank you for the vote for me :) Sep 18 08:58:49 maybe you can make a package Sep 18 09:01:08 zdanek: yeah I could put the patch in a new package. But I won't have enough time later this day Sep 18 09:01:15 sure Sep 18 09:01:25 I will write a little post at my OM blog Sep 18 09:01:35 but it should be fixed and distributed Sep 18 09:01:41 I wrote an email to kriss Sep 18 09:01:51 zdanek: great! Sep 18 09:02:27 okay, best regards to all Sep 18 09:02:31 back to work Sep 18 09:02:56 gnu: ping Sep 18 09:04:01 gnu: I have seen the error reported in my user talk. could you please send me the list of your installed packages? on my neo prelink installed only with a glitch in the post-inst script Sep 18 09:07:22 yay!!! Sep 18 09:07:26 I has a qtopia-opensource-src-4.3.0-preview.tar.gz Sep 18 09:08:49 Ghiottone|work: You're doing a lot of good stuff, so thank you :) Sep 18 09:08:52 is the eventual supposrted image supposed to include gsm support? Sep 18 09:09:07 scardeycat: i tried their ftp it was switched off ;-( flashed it yet? Sep 18 09:09:25 it's working now jpcass Sep 18 09:09:31 except the link it wrong Sep 18 09:09:33 :) Sep 18 09:09:44 lower case the Q in qtopia Sep 18 09:10:41 does it contain a flash image or is it sources & build environment? Sep 18 09:11:41 no, i think it's just the env. Sep 18 09:12:18 ljp was going to upload an image... Sep 18 09:13:06 ok, maybe i'll wait...still learning oe environment ;-) Sep 18 09:13:17 ScaredyCat: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php Sep 18 09:14:09 :o Sep 18 09:14:23 excellent thanks XorA Sep 18 09:14:38 ScaredyCat: they were pointed to me in another channel Sep 18 09:15:01 hehe Sep 18 09:15:07 have yo flashed it yet? Sep 18 09:15:24 ScaredyCat: no, I only have P1 with me today, dont want to blank that Sep 18 09:16:38 scaredycat: do you dare? ;-) Sep 18 09:16:52 I always dare :) Sep 18 09:17:44 its pretty hard to brick a Neo Sep 18 09:18:36 ok: kernel is going down.... Sep 18 09:18:40 [######## Sep 18 09:19:37 rootfs takes a bit longer [# Sep 18 09:21:31 lalala Running task 1566 of 4780 .... no image yet :( Sep 18 09:23:24 tick tock tick tock Sep 18 09:23:42 * ScaredyCat has a neotopia Sep 18 09:26:32 [##################### Sep 18 09:27:43 hmmm Sep 18 09:28:05 well? im just about to reboot... Sep 18 09:28:13 well.... errm Sep 18 09:28:35 it boots... Sep 18 09:28:39 looks nice Sep 18 09:28:47 tells me I have no network Sep 18 09:29:02 oo Sep 18 09:29:05 :O!1 Sep 18 09:29:07 !!! Sep 18 09:29:24 no ssh Sep 18 09:30:21 well they havent improved the boot time, thats for sure ;-) Sep 18 09:30:44 gsmhas ssh Sep 18 09:30:58 really? mine booted pretty fast Sep 18 09:31:03 nice lock phone feature... Sep 18 09:31:23 i got queried for pin..please wait... Sep 18 09:31:26 and to be really frank, it's a more useable interface too Sep 18 09:31:38 "O2 - UK" - alright! Sep 18 09:31:44 ! Sep 18 09:32:02 guys any screenshot? Sep 18 09:32:02 dialling... Sep 18 09:32:07 call worked! Sep 18 09:32:12 !! Sep 18 09:32:25 connected but i cant hear anything... Sep 18 09:32:54 bluetooth Sep 18 09:32:56 incoming call works too... Sep 18 09:35:43 * ScaredyCat is impressed Sep 18 09:36:09 this is just way ahead of anything we currently hve Sep 18 09:36:12 me too! Sep 18 09:38:18 I cant do calls - doesn;t see any carrers.. dunno if it's cos I'm roaming or just not getting a good signal... Sep 18 09:38:36 cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 Sep 18 09:38:45 at+cops=? Sep 18 09:38:55 should list the carriers it can see Sep 18 09:41:29 hang, just doing a reboot... Sep 18 09:41:38 but quite frankly - fecking awesome Sep 18 09:49:47 w00t Sep 18 09:49:52 just got an sms Sep 18 09:50:19 yep i can finally read the sms stored on my sim Sep 18 09:50:52 check out http://www.johnkerry.plus.com/neo/neo-qtopia-1.JPG Sep 18 09:51:39 * abraxa_ wonders how many people have been working for how long on qtopia Sep 18 09:52:12 impressive shot Sep 18 09:52:16 are there some more? Sep 18 09:52:23 (1 to 6) Sep 18 09:52:31 abraxa_: loads for over 10 years I believe Sep 18 09:52:36 abraxa_ lots and lots I guess... Sep 18 09:52:49 great! Sep 18 09:53:26 Ghiottone|work: just converting some now Sep 18 09:53:44 jpcass: looks nice! :D Sep 18 09:54:22 cant understand their text entry keyboard.... Sep 18 09:55:34 usbnet is working, I am sshed into neo Sep 18 09:55:39 jpcass: great shots indeed! Sep 18 09:56:27 mickey|zzZZzz: did you use my patch Sep 18 09:56:40 ps -ef = http://pastebin.ca/701698 Sep 18 09:58:02 http://buildhost.automated.it/screenshots/ Sep 18 09:58:35 ScaredyCat: How fast does the ui feel? Sep 18 09:58:39 ScaredyCat: Forbidden Sep 18 09:58:55 CM: much faster.. Sep 18 09:59:00 ui is fairly responsive Sep 18 09:59:00 XorA: ? Sep 18 09:59:08 ScaredyCat: Your images Sep 18 09:59:14 We can't see them.. :( Sep 18 09:59:17 ScaredyCat: 403 on your images Sep 18 09:59:33 its got a voip option built in... Sep 18 10:01:44 ok the keyboard is getting cooler... Sep 18 10:02:09 jpcass: Is that qtopia running on a Neo? Sep 18 10:02:10 stroke upwards or downwards to change which layout (alpha - symbol - number - caps) Sep 18 10:02:14 yep Sep 18 10:03:34 tap and hold to get a local zoom-in in a circle ... Sep 18 10:03:54 which is decent, make finger keying easier... Sep 18 10:04:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 10:04:26 there you go for pics Sep 18 10:06:21 added some more Sep 18 10:09:15 Thanks, Scaredy and jpcass Sep 18 10:09:41 Let's take it as an inspiration to show them that we can do better ;) Sep 18 10:10:02 ScaredyCat: Put an empty line between each image ref please :) Sep 18 10:10:17 (I don't want to edit at the same time as you and mess it up :P) Sep 18 10:10:45 better? Sep 18 10:10:48 guys, I there some IM client available for openmoko? with jabber protocol Sep 18 10:10:56 zdanek: Pidgin? Sep 18 10:11:12 I don't know any except psi Sep 18 10:11:13 ScaredyCat: Excellente! :D Sep 18 10:11:17 could be Sep 18 10:11:29 abraxa_: do you have link to ipk? Sep 18 10:11:52 this stuff is just working... you know how sexy that is! Sep 18 10:11:55 zdanek: I've seen several people mention their use of pidgin on the Neo - and sorry no, I don't know of a package source Sep 18 10:12:27 ljp: your certainly causing excitement Sep 18 10:12:43 * ScaredyCat gets excited over his coffee Sep 18 10:12:59 this is really cool... I'm sorry... but it is... Sep 18 10:13:02 woo hoo Sep 18 10:13:32 ScaredyCat: It does make me a little jealous, I gotta admit. But hey - all the better for OpenMoko as competition puts a good kind of pressure on the team ;) Sep 18 10:13:34 * XorA avoids jokes about salty coffee Sep 18 10:14:10 abraxa_: yeah, they need something like this to kick them in the ass and do something Sep 18 10:14:22 * ScaredyCat adds 'crea' to XorA's coffee Sep 18 10:14:30 s/crea/cream Sep 18 10:15:02 ScaredyCat: can you make a video and post on youtube? Sep 18 10:15:21 I have nothing to make a video with.... Sep 18 10:15:31 unless my wife's camera works.. Sep 18 10:15:36 gimmie a few mins Sep 18 10:17:07 the sip client is trying to register with my asterisk server...but there are teething probelms (i think due to networking through my pc...) Sep 18 10:17:16 hehehe Sep 18 10:18:12 I found pidgin http://z.drun.net/packages/pidgin_2.1.1_armv5tel.ipk Sep 18 10:18:21 but it's for armv5 Sep 18 10:18:34 I belive it's somewhere on OE Sep 18 10:26:24 hi ! Sep 18 10:26:31 ScaredyCat: yeah - I'm reliably informed the core team is in fact lazing around, and doing only 3-4 minutes of work a day. Sep 18 10:26:37 TrollTech cares about us: http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Sep 18 10:26:49 I don't especially think more pressure is needed... Sep 18 10:26:57 (sorry if anyone has already signaled that...) Sep 18 10:27:40 SpeedEvil: you'e entitled to your opinion Sep 18 10:27:53 squalyl: Sep 18 10:28:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 10:28:49 wow Sep 18 10:28:49 I was just meaning - I don't think pressure is the problem at the moment. I have some queries about the apparent organisation of the team, and the leveraging of outside resources. Sep 18 10:29:05 But the major problem is manpower. Sep 18 10:29:10 Well - beingpower. Sep 18 10:30:42 ok, so I now hav a pretty poor video .. Sep 18 10:30:55 now I need to find out how touse youtube Sep 18 10:31:05 Or google video Sep 18 10:31:08 It's pretty easy Sep 18 10:31:17 just sign up and upload a video in any format Sep 18 10:31:26 and don't i need a thrash metal track too ;) Sep 18 10:31:33 Just look at how many functional illiterates videos are on it. Sep 18 10:31:44 can I remove the audio too? Sep 18 10:32:03 mancoder can renmove the audio Sep 18 10:32:04 err Sep 18 10:32:06 mencoder Sep 18 10:34:43 done Sep 18 10:34:52 ok, so youtube or google ? Sep 18 10:35:11 isnt google video dead? Sep 18 10:36:12 they are both the same thing now Sep 18 10:36:29 ie, both connect to the same db Sep 18 10:39:08 yes Sep 18 10:39:18 I just used my gmail account to log in Sep 18 10:39:25 or create an account.. Sep 18 10:39:31 uploading it now.. Sep 18 10:41:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 10:41:25 :O Sep 18 10:42:11 you can ipkg update etc: it all points to the openmoko servers Sep 18 10:43:24 Or you can use stuff like rapidshare to share the uncoded video Sep 18 11:11:20 ScaredyCat, how responsive is the Qtopia UI on the Neo ? Sep 18 11:11:46 so where is the link to the video? (sorry if anyone has posted it...) Sep 18 11:11:48 personally, I think it seems faster Sep 18 11:12:06 I'm trying to upload it... it just crapped out saying it was too big Sep 18 11:12:09 rescaling it Sep 18 11:12:38 ScaredyCat: ok Sep 18 11:14:36 Is qtopia just the ui, or does it cover more of the middleware/low-level stuff needed on a phone? Sep 18 11:18:14 Wow, I'm impressed they matched the traditional neo "brown fire" colours (looking at the screenshots) Sep 18 11:19:22 Do we have a bitbake recipe for that already? Sep 18 11:20:01 ... Sep 18 11:20:12 "CWD Qtopia" "Failed to change directory." Sep 18 11:20:55 s/Qtopia/qtopia/ Sep 18 11:21:07 Someone had its head in the marketing clouds and used uppercase where he shouldn't... Sep 18 11:21:15 ynezz: yeah, had just found that out Sep 18 11:22:31 * cesarb is downloading the source, to see how they do gsm (gsmd or their own implementation? If their own implementation, can it be detached and used with something else?) Sep 18 11:25:02 how do I stop firefox being such a fuckwit when I'm uploading Sep 18 11:25:23 The press release said they GPL'd the whole thing, so if they did their own gsmd, it should be possible to rip it out. Sep 18 11:26:03 Lynet_: however, if it's a library embedded deep in the bowels of their kit, depending on everything else, it would not be so easy Sep 18 11:26:15 ok, so the first vid is uploaded... I'll do another one Sep 18 11:26:17 cesarb: True. Sep 18 11:26:32 with a tripos this time :) Sep 18 11:26:34 Lynet_: basically, if it's a QtCore-only thing (perhaps with the Qt network parts too), should be easy to rip out Sep 18 11:26:35 tripod Sep 18 11:26:49 Lynet_: if it's a QtGui thing, probably will be harder Sep 18 11:27:19 * cesarb has programmed on Qt before, so I have some idea on how things work in Qt's C++-plus-moc land Sep 18 11:27:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 Sep 18 11:27:45 Would seem like a bad design decision to make it a part of QtGui, but guess we'll have to hit the source to find out. Sep 18 11:28:43 Lynet_: I will look at it tonight, still 1 hour left of download and I'll go get the bus/ferry to work soon Sep 18 11:29:18 * cesarb goes to the youtube downloader site so he can see the video with mplayer Sep 18 11:30:13 hmm, qtopia just became interesting, reading the backlog... Sep 18 11:30:43 it make some noise when I "lock phone" Sep 18 11:30:50 it seems ran into suspend mode. Sep 18 11:30:50 mjr: the neo just had its most positive effect in the world so far! Sep 18 11:30:52 ScaredyCat: Nice :-) Sep 18 11:31:12 * cesarb should avoid trolling (bad pun) ;-) Sep 18 11:31:16 Their web pages have a graphic of java running on top of qtopia, are they including a j2me runtime? Sep 18 11:31:44 cesarb: I have the original too :) Sep 18 11:32:11 is the qtopia flash image able to function as a phone semi-reliably? might use that for a while if it is... Sep 18 11:33:17 since it don't run on X, it might be a problem to run other apps right? Sep 18 11:33:40 ScaredyCat: nice movie :D Sep 18 11:33:48 Qtopia moves smoothly Sep 18 11:34:20 ScaredyCat: can you make a phone call? Sep 18 11:34:21 ynezz, probably. You could have an X server semi-integrated, of course, but dunno if they have one Sep 18 11:34:28 * cesarb will look at the video later... the qtopia source download is eating all the bandwidth Sep 18 11:36:21 ScaredyCat: thanks for the video Sep 18 11:37:26 ScaredyCat: hey, just thought of something... would it be possible to dual-boot with qtopia and openmoko (for instance, qtopia on the SD and openmoko on the bultin flash)? Sep 18 11:37:38 ScaredyCat: dual-booting with these would be nice... Sep 18 11:38:23 can't see a reason why not Sep 18 11:38:25 cesarb: you won't need to dualboot. just exit X and start qtopia. or exit qtopia and start the X server Sep 18 11:38:34 openmoko: 03zecke * r3006 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Sep 18 11:38:34 openmoko: 2007-09-18 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Sep 18 11:38:34 openmoko: Readd the prepare-ChangeLog scripts. Sep 18 11:38:34 openmoko: * scripts/VCSUtils.pm: Added. Sep 18 11:38:34 openmoko: * scripts/prepare-ChangeLog: Added. Sep 18 11:38:35 but yeah Sep 18 11:38:40 qtopia is user-level stuff after all Sep 18 11:39:00 >>ScaredyCat: can you make a phone call? Sep 18 11:39:39 chetan_: well, not if it does things like messing up with gsm, initscripts and the like... you'd need a completely new runlevel in that case Sep 18 11:39:51 chetan_: and it does seem to have its own gsm stuff Sep 18 11:40:08 openmoko: 03zecke * r3007 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (ChangeLog src/go-page.c): Sep 18 11:40:11 openmoko: 2007-09-18 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Sep 18 11:40:13 openmoko: GNU/libc build fix. Sep 18 11:40:15 openmoko: * src/go-page.c: Sep 18 11:40:25 * cesarb wonders how long the Qt guys had to wait anxiously while the phone package bounced from asia to the US to whetever they are... Sep 18 11:42:34 zdanek: yes Sep 18 11:42:39 but no audio.. Sep 18 11:42:53 yes Sep 18 11:42:54 cesarb: hehe Sep 18 11:42:55 yet Sep 18 11:42:56 * zecke hides Sep 18 11:43:13 ScaredyCat: That kinda defeats the point. ;-) Sep 18 11:43:44 notreally, it's just a config... much like with openmoko bfore.. Sep 18 11:43:53 alsactl type stuff Sep 18 11:45:17 it just came out of suspend.... Sep 18 11:45:25 a little slowly bu it did do it Sep 18 11:45:28 ScaredyCat: thx for answer Sep 18 11:45:50 got another vid to u/l Sep 18 11:46:04 does anybody know how to add some kind of shortcut to applications list? for example shortcut to SettingsGUI Sep 18 11:47:20 someone seen this: http://www.golem.de/0709/54837.html ? Sep 18 11:48:07 emdete, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 Sep 18 11:48:09 ;) Sep 18 11:50:17 this is really sad news... Sep 18 11:50:52 denis^da: it seems related to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 Sep 18 11:51:15 emdete: sad, why? Sep 18 11:51:29 qtopia sucks. long story... Sep 18 11:51:30 from my point of view as a user it is great Sep 18 11:51:38 you have the choice Sep 18 11:51:51 and more community that writes more software ;) Sep 18 11:52:14 hm, is more always 'good'? Sep 18 11:52:49 denis^da: sorry, failed cut&paste Sep 18 11:53:04 denis^da: but there was a link in linuxdevices.com about it Sep 18 11:53:14 yeah I read it already Sep 18 11:53:39 qtopia has it's own gsm0707 - can it do a call? Sep 18 11:53:45 emdete, more is definetly good. You can pick out the best. Sep 18 11:53:54 denis^da: you can't Sep 18 11:53:55 And there is more challenge Sep 18 11:54:42 denis^da: you can choose between qtopia or openmoko in the beginning - after that you are stuck Sep 18 11:55:01 emdete: dual booting? Sep 18 11:55:07 no, you can always switch Sep 18 11:55:19 and if you sync your data, it wont matter 1 bit Sep 18 11:55:31 nice nice. I allways wanted qtopia on the phone. But on the other hand, much great things happen on the X/gtk front... Will seee.... Sep 18 11:55:37 And getting a qtopia app runing under Openmoko shouldnt be that problem Sep 18 11:55:46 so openmoko saves the contacts the same format as openmoko does? wow Sep 18 11:55:55 denis^da: it will Sep 18 11:56:16 we' ll see ;) Sep 18 11:56:26 ScaredyCat: but you have to switch completly... yes? Sep 18 11:56:33 no Sep 18 11:57:10 so you want to start qt apps under openmoko? Sep 18 11:57:22 what a crap... ;) Sep 18 11:58:10 starting x apps in qtopia should work. There is a qt based x-server available. afaik. Sep 18 11:58:18 crap tzz on the desktop you have them running hand in hand so whats the problem? Sep 18 11:58:40 denis^da: the neo is mostly not on my desktop ;) Sep 18 11:59:04 x is not the only problem you will face Sep 18 11:59:12 It was just a picture emdete ;) Sep 18 12:00:11 denis^da: mine too. the neo is not a high end computer capable of doing so Sep 18 12:00:34 and: how do thoses apps interoperate? how does a qt-app use oe-contacts? Sep 18 12:11:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOG_mtSEMgs Sep 18 12:11:24 vid 2 Sep 18 12:17:23 ScaredyCat: IS Qtopia better than the OpenMoko software in your opiion? Sep 18 12:17:39 it's currently more usable... Sep 18 12:17:46 as an end user... Sep 18 12:18:11 I reserve judgement on if it's 'better' until I've had a better look... Sep 18 12:18:18 ScaredyCat: ++ Sep 18 12:18:33 ScaredyCat: Takes me time to load video.. at school and they limit connections.. Sep 18 12:18:54 so far, the fact that it registers every time with a carrier is a major plus... Sep 18 12:19:02 lack of audio is a minus... Sep 18 12:19:27 Hahaha, yeah, I would say so :P Sep 18 12:19:52 but, like most things I guess it's only a matter of time before that's sorted. Sep 18 12:20:17 qtopia is still not as finger frinedly as it could be. Sep 18 12:20:21 ScaredyCat: I am wanting an OpenMoko, but I am going to wait till main release.. Do you think this phone could serve as a replacement for my main phone? I love to geek about and nerd out, but I'd like it if I could call/text properly from it Sep 18 12:20:26 No, doesn't look so, really. Sep 18 12:20:59 the 'ocober' release still probably wont be usable as a phone. Sep 18 12:21:11 The thing about OpenMoko that scares me is exactly that. Not ready yet. Sep 18 12:21:12 development is very very slow. Sep 18 12:21:27 * zash` likes the universal-ish backbutton in qtopia Sep 18 12:21:59 I just think that the people who should be developing (the core devs) have too much other stuff going on. Sep 18 12:22:18 if they were working for me, they'd be working on what I hired them for. Sep 18 12:22:41 ScaredyCat: It might be developing nicely, but it simply might be all backend Sep 18 12:22:46 i guess qutopia is not using the gsmd. Could we borrow theyr gsm multiplexing mechanism? Would that be worth it? Sep 18 12:23:11 ScaredyCat: What I guess I am wondering about is.. whether I would be able to just smack some Qtopia on it until OpenMoko is ready Sep 18 12:23:17 I am sure phoning will be fixed :P Sep 18 12:23:19 nox-Hand: I'm doing daily updates and builds - there's not much Sep 18 12:23:20 (audio) Sep 18 12:23:29 ScaredyCat: SVN? Sep 18 12:23:36 yes svn Sep 18 12:23:40 :-/ Sep 18 12:23:53 Doesn't seem all that speedy really to be honest :-\ Sep 18 12:23:59 if they get the audio sorted under qtopia, it's usable as a phone. Sep 18 12:24:00 What? Sep 18 12:24:02 oh Sep 18 12:24:16 The speed of Qtopia Sep 18 12:24:19 it's stable and doesn't seem to crash much. Sep 18 12:24:21 And no idea about OpenMoko :P Sep 18 12:24:44 How speedy is OpenMoko VS Qtopia? Sep 18 12:24:47 it's not lightening fast, but it is fiarly zippy Sep 18 12:25:12 iirc qtopia is fb, not x Sep 18 12:25:16 Faster than Qtopia? Sep 18 12:25:27 that's an up as well as a down Sep 18 12:25:30 Nice fb :P Sep 18 12:27:22 ScaredyCat: Even powermanagement :) Sep 18 12:27:30 yes Sep 18 12:27:36 and it works (ish) Sep 18 12:27:52 I had to turn off the suspend.. Sep 18 12:28:03 it only seemed to want me to set that at 1 min.. Sep 18 12:28:05 max Sep 18 12:28:08 hehe Sep 18 12:28:09 and it got annoying Sep 18 12:33:08 El_Salvador: What version of Qtopia is that? Sep 18 12:33:47 is sdl build broken? Sep 18 12:35:35 no libglade broke too :-) Sep 18 12:35:37 * nox-Hand not know Sep 18 12:35:41 s/no/now/ Sep 18 12:35:41 tuukkah meant: now libglade broke too :-) Sep 18 12:36:09 .oO(KDE vs Gnome reloaded *grin*) Sep 18 13:05:49 wow. Sep 18 13:06:09 qtopia, gpl licensed, for neo1973? Sep 18 13:06:12 interesting... Sep 18 13:06:31 included with DRM and "Safe Execution Environment"... Sep 18 13:06:34 YAY!... Sep 18 13:06:36 or rather not... Sep 18 13:08:39 if gta2 brings hw accelerated graphics drivers will be avaiable for x... so qtopia won't gain any benefit from that Sep 18 13:09:53 there will be docs, so it could be written Sep 18 13:10:12 SpeedEvil: shure... Sep 18 13:10:25 does qtopia has any kind of browser? Sep 18 13:10:44 does it support gprs? Sep 18 13:11:07 I guess qt-webkit runs fine on qtopia... Sep 18 13:11:10 In principle I mean of course. Sep 18 13:11:13 emdete: actually, I'm _very_ interested in seeing qtopia on the neo. Usability-wise Trolltech invested heavily into their qtopia thingy, I'd like to see it on the neo to compare it against openmoko... Maybe there are some things which can be improved... Sep 18 13:11:20 What gfx driver model does qtopia use anyway. does it use abstracted promitives than can be acce'd or does it just assume a dumb framebuffer. Sep 18 13:11:29 * ScaredyCat pokes ixs Sep 18 13:11:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOG_mtSEMgs Sep 18 13:12:45 ScaredyCat: huh? Sep 18 13:12:58 ahhh. thx for the link Sep 18 13:14:42 hmm.. I get http://rafb.net/p/HSUkqO44.html <-- this error when I try to flash qemu... Sep 18 13:15:26 finally something working on neo *g* Sep 18 13:15:42 well guys - much to do Sep 18 13:16:10 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore == making calls with audio under qtopia Sep 18 13:16:21 Is anyone working on a MPD client GUI for the openmoko? I have seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Music_Player Sep 18 13:16:31 trolltech's neo image works just fine Sep 18 13:16:38 jas4711: Not yet, afaik Sep 18 13:17:52 anyone knows how qtopia for neo relates to openmoko? Sep 18 13:18:07 ? Sep 18 13:18:13 what? Sep 18 13:18:29 RalphEichelberge: something like KDE vs GNOME on pc's Sep 18 13:18:42 there's no relationship, other than the hardware platform Sep 18 13:19:33 really? - so they have a new gsmd implementation? Sep 18 13:20:11 CM: ok, thx. something to start working on then, once i get my nslu2 to be the mpd-server... Sep 18 13:20:27 they have their own insterface tothe gsm chip - not using gsmd Sep 18 13:21:17 RalphEichelberge: jep. they had a working system years ago. But i would say it is similar to gsmd but afaik not a seperate deamon Sep 18 13:21:32 i would much more like to see openmoko (and all the great work in the toolchain) for the greenphone.... Sep 18 13:21:32 RalphEichelberge: was unfree until now Sep 18 13:21:59 problem with the qtopia aproach is that it is not very unix-like Sep 18 13:23:09 why? Sep 18 13:23:11 more a big c++ baes plugin system as far as i understood the dsign Sep 18 13:23:14 also you have a toolchain wich build qtopia apps only. no chance to do somethin else Sep 18 13:23:26 DPThought: exact, yes Sep 18 13:23:35 the windows-aproach: lots of dlls Sep 18 13:23:42 jas4711: I'll be glad to test or help out, given I have enough time. :) Sep 18 13:24:02 well however - they got it running - not bad Sep 18 13:24:22 jas4711: Also, rwhitby probably has the answer to anything you want to know about nslu2 ;) Sep 18 13:25:00 CM: the nslu2 part should be simple, i'm just waiting for my usb audio adapter Sep 18 13:26:48 CM: but i'm not a gui coder... but getting something that isn't pretty to work should be possible. i've got bluetooth networking to work from the neo, that's the part that i thought would be difficult Sep 18 13:26:52 hmm. so it was this qtopia that big announcement that was coming in September ;-) Sep 18 13:27:00 oh i see. qtopia has build in voip support for the telephony system. nice Sep 18 13:27:13 jas4711: Oh, I haven't even gotten that far yet. Sep 18 13:28:47 jas4711: I'll be working on xmms2 client once I get the hardwarez. Sep 18 13:29:23 nano-: what protocol does xmms2 use? perhaps the gui should be plugin-based Sep 18 13:29:29 jas4711: libxmmsclient. Sep 18 13:29:39 jas4711: http://doxygen.xmms2.xmms.se/clientlib/stable/xmmsclient/modules.html Sep 18 13:30:00 nano-: hm, does it work over a network? Sep 18 13:30:04 jas4711: yes. Sep 18 13:30:35 jas4711: the xmms2 wiki is really good, read around some :) Sep 18 13:30:50 nano-: ok. then a plugin based approach sounds like a good idea. there could be support for xmms2 and mtd. Sep 18 13:31:04 jas4711: we have a mpd bridge. Sep 18 13:31:20 oh nevermind, reverse thinking. Sep 18 13:31:27 nano-: does xmms work on nslu2? :) Sep 18 13:31:44 jas4711: it runs on neuros osd so i guess so, nslu2 is arm too right? Sep 18 13:31:58 nano-: yes Sep 18 13:32:26 jas4711: otherwise we'll be adding upnp mediarenderer soon, so that you can use your nslu2 in the same way as apple uses airport express with airtunes. Sep 18 13:32:39 anyway, off topic here, more info on #xmms2 Sep 18 13:33:32 mediatomb nano-? Sep 18 13:34:05 ScaredyCat: we can't read from mediaserver yet, only daap, but a similar transport for mediaserver is in the todo. Sep 18 13:34:27 nice... Sep 18 13:35:10 They are both attractive alternatives to airtunes/daap. Sep 18 13:35:34 I wonder if there will be eventual 'merge' open openmoko and qtopia similarly that gnome and kde apps both can be used in same time Sep 18 13:37:31 a bit less trivial what with the X/fb thing, but I can see that happening if somebody's interested... Sep 18 13:38:01 just use X11 as framebuffer? Sep 18 13:38:22 that would still be a bit 'emulation' though Sep 18 13:39:10 x11 is not the only thing to merge. qt has a lot of more things like eventing, threads and most importand an own telephony api Sep 18 13:39:19 well, if this happens for somebody: must have openmoko app + must have qtopia app -> big itch to make them run at same time Sep 18 13:39:37 yeah, for whole stuff true Sep 18 13:40:35 so in the end we ask for 3 platforms whe we consider java too? Sep 18 13:40:38 couldn't you run most qtopia apps with qt-x11? Sep 18 13:40:49 on one device like the neo? wow... Sep 18 13:43:50 ooo neo qtopia Sep 18 13:47:10 hmm does the new qtopia for neo use gsmd and such? Sep 18 13:47:13 hmm since trolltech was not making money on hardware, but on their licensing, i wonder what their business model is Sep 18 13:47:23 it'll be nice to get a gta02 and have a fully working userspace software stack at least Sep 18 13:47:40 I moved quickly from trolltech to openmoko when it appeared Sep 18 13:47:48 LetoTo: they release everything under the gpl and "give us lots of money if you want it under a proprietary license" Sep 18 13:48:06 lots and lots of money Sep 18 13:48:08 yeah, I did notice the dual license. Sep 18 13:48:13 it wasnt that bad a year ago. Sep 18 13:48:23 like 3k or so to develop for non-gpl Sep 18 13:48:29 Luckily I write mostly gpl software so it works out well Sep 18 13:48:56 I'm pretty sure qtopia lives inside a few wifi phones Sep 18 13:49:32 * LetoTo needs coffee. Sep 18 13:49:42 is smoke works with qtopia / can be hacked to without much effort I will live happily ever after Sep 18 13:51:20 what makes our bb recipes run ./autogen.sh? Sep 18 13:51:52 * hypa7ia pokes LetoTo Sep 18 13:52:36 tuukkah: the 'inherit autotools'? Sep 18 13:52:49 does anybody have any idea what I am doing wrong/how I can debug the crash I get when trying to flash qemu? (http://rafb.net/p/G26jrC73.html) Sep 18 13:54:31 emdete, it's not working in my own package and i tried to read the autotools class but i can't understand what it's doing :-/ Sep 18 13:54:43 Mek: Never seen that error before, but most people here know more about qemu than I do. Sep 18 13:55:30 u_l-lap: I do consider the "give us lots and lots of money to develop closed source software otherwise here's the gpl version" perfectly okay. Sep 18 13:55:47 u_l-lap: have you ever seen license costs for symbian or what oracle costs? Sep 18 13:56:04 u_l-lap: mysql and qtopia in the closed source version are _DIRT CHEAP_ Sep 18 13:57:43 hmm i must be setting up the source wrong since the logs say "nothing to configure, nothing to compile"... Sep 18 13:58:41 ixs: I don't find that unreasonable. Dual license that is Sep 18 13:59:04 * CM is from Sweden where everyone talks in double negations Sep 18 14:00:17 ixs: I imagine so Sep 18 14:00:29 ixs: I luckily don't develop proprietary software so it works out well enough for me Sep 18 14:01:08 hmm, I think I could easily get smokeqt working with qtopia Sep 18 14:01:41 and then for a few dozen lines of C and either some cffi or guile magic get CL/Scheme bindings to the entire platform generatively Sep 18 14:02:05 using a bit of MOP wizardry to make the smoke instances behave properly Sep 18 14:03:15 has anyone got qtopia running on their moko? Sep 18 14:03:29 am i a bit late for qtopia topi discussions ? :) Sep 18 14:03:33 topic Sep 18 14:03:39 CM: same here. Sep 18 14:04:28 i'm late here - what's the buzz Sep 18 14:04:41 Writchie: http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Sep 18 14:04:50 gw280: http://www.youtube.com/user/FuzzyScaredyCat Sep 18 14:05:52 not much of a surprise there Sep 18 14:06:05 now I have to wonder how difficult it would be hack up a qt backend for mcclim Sep 18 14:06:43 unless cairo runs on top of the qtopia fb or someone wrote a rootless X server for it Sep 18 14:07:22 there is rootless X for Qtopia2, you'll have to port it Sep 18 14:10:33 I see the Qtopia announcement has gotten a lot of people talking :) Sep 18 14:11:15 * rwhitby wonders whether talk about qtopia ported to the neo1973 should be in #neo1973 or #qtopia? Sep 18 14:11:34 * D3ftoner is away: auto-away Sep 18 14:11:36 rwhitby: depends if its about stealung the good bits :-) Sep 18 14:11:49 #qtopia-on-neo1973 ? Sep 18 14:12:25 I would think that both channels would be apropriate Sep 18 14:12:27 qtopia could become part of openmoko if someone made some OE packages for it Sep 18 14:14:10 hi Sep 18 14:14:43 * D3ftoner is back (gone 00:03:10) Sep 18 14:16:49 there is no #neo1973, you, wou... eh. :) Sep 18 14:17:09 so how does text input work on qtopia touchscreen? Sep 18 14:19:37 buz: I believe there is both a touch keypad and handwriting recognition Sep 18 14:19:51 so they have gpl'ed handwriting recognition? neat Sep 18 14:20:01 buz: I havn't worked with it much since the qtopia2... and it existed there Sep 18 14:20:58 in any case, where before, i was sure to get gta02, now i'm very sure ;) Sep 18 14:21:50 yes, me too. along with everyone here at work Sep 18 14:21:54 I hope... Sep 18 14:21:58 btw, is there any chance to see a GTA02 prototype at openexpo on friday? Sep 18 14:22:51 hi mokos :-) Sep 18 14:23:35 ScaredyCat nice video - qtopia seems to be way faster for the gui - hopefully its the debug code... Sep 18 14:23:56 mickey|ICE77: is there a chance to see a gta02 prototype at openexpo? Sep 18 14:24:24 buz: what would you expect from it? Sep 18 14:24:35 i dunno, wet pants maybe? Sep 18 14:25:03 so where's the difference? :P Sep 18 14:25:05 back Sep 18 14:25:11 hey kristian-m Sep 18 14:25:15 buz: didn't bring it with me. it doesn't boot without the debug board and looks the same as the gta01. and the UI is slooow without the accel drivers ;) Sep 18 14:25:35 mickey|ICE77: got my link and the image running? Sep 18 14:25:42 good to know ;) Sep 18 14:27:16 is there a status/progress table on supporting all of the neo features with OpenMoko? Anybody has a URL? Sep 18 14:27:17 Bbird: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 18 14:27:54 thomasg: heh Sep 18 14:27:55 it's slower than 01 Sep 18 14:27:57 much slower, in fact Sep 18 14:28:05 without the drivers Sep 18 14:28:42 ! Sep 18 14:30:14 mickey: that's really scary Sep 18 14:30:32 hehe. no, it's expected Sep 18 14:30:47 the path to the smedia is not a huge one Sep 18 14:31:12 tred wisely you shall Sep 18 14:31:14 in other words all simple fb graphics are just going to suck Sep 18 14:31:16 When will the driver development be public? Sep 18 14:31:42 * ScaredyCat looks at scummvm... Sep 18 14:31:50 mickey|ICE77: lesser bandwidth? it should behave better anyway, given the faster processor Sep 18 14:31:54 trolltech is not gonna like that ;) Sep 18 14:32:00 hi Ghiottone|work Sep 18 14:32:10 hmm... removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh seems to have fixed my qemu segfaulting... Sep 18 14:32:10 or maybe they'll port qtopia to x11 then ;) Sep 18 14:32:21 Ghiottone|work got a new version of settingsgui comming up... :-) Sep 18 14:32:22 qt-x11 even Sep 18 14:32:50 kristian-m: great kristian! any news about setup.py ? Sep 18 14:33:44 kristian-m: Is settingsgui in rwhitby's community feed? Sep 18 14:33:52 well, if they care they write a qt/embedded accellerated driver for it Sep 18 14:33:54 ScaredyCat : there is an directFb accelerator and some other stuff Sep 18 14:34:25 and they'll have plenty of time to do it... :x Sep 18 14:35:04 mickey: so the architecture reduces the bandwidth by a factor and 10 and hopes to speed it up with acceleration?? Sep 18 14:35:13 hehehe Sep 18 14:35:16 Ghiottone|work i'll put one int the tar.gz then - later today Sep 18 14:35:23 CM: not yet. it needs a proper bb file Sep 18 14:35:25 ScaredyCat: : http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Qtopia/DirectFB Sep 18 14:35:26 CM 'don't know Sep 18 14:35:39 Ghiottone|work: Ok, just curious :) Sep 18 14:36:19 http://www.lipsforum.org/ Sep 18 14:36:27 Ta BabelO Sep 18 14:36:27 is that serious or just silly people trying to make a buck? Sep 18 14:36:33 CM: I'll probably submit the recipe for inclusion when I get it right enough Sep 18 14:37:18 hmm trolltech and montevista are members :P Sep 18 14:37:18 *sigh* Sep 18 14:37:24 i have no luck with ICEs... Sep 18 14:37:34 yet another accidant on the lanes Sep 18 14:37:39 traing being rerouted Sep 18 14:37:41 hrm, this FIC still doesn't make phone calls, even in Qtopia Sep 18 14:39:26 works for me(tm) Sep 18 14:40:47 ScaredyCat, what about playing music with qtopia? Is there a player and is it working on Neo? Sep 18 14:40:53 kristian-m: great. I read a bit about distutils and wrote one myself, but it is far from correct. what new features has this new version got? Sep 18 14:41:42 does the neo1973 support USIMs? Sep 18 14:41:54 openmoko: 03thomas * r3008 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (22 files in 3 dirs): * Import new OpenMoko GTK+ engine Sep 18 14:42:01 Tyrael: mplayer works, gstreamer works. problem is performance when mixing audio Sep 18 14:42:06 Tyrael: haven't seen an app to do it... Sep 18 14:42:27 mplayer, madplay et al should all work ok Sep 18 14:42:44 I *really* like the unlock idea Sep 18 14:42:58 * ScaredyCat prods mickey|ICE77 ... hint hint Sep 18 14:43:07 ScaredyCat: we see that on your videos ;) Sep 18 14:43:17 :P Sep 18 14:43:26 ScaredyCat : there is now helix app ? Sep 18 14:43:39 mm? new OpenMoko GTK+ engine? what's that? Sep 18 14:43:52 ScaredyCat: unlock? Sep 18 14:44:11 mickey|ICE77: yes, slide the key into the lock Sep 18 14:44:37 last few seconds of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOG_mtSEMgs shows it Sep 18 14:44:49 hmm, no vids on gprs ;) Sep 18 14:44:56 i'll take a look tomorrow Sep 18 14:44:57 :o sorry Sep 18 14:45:25 asically you get a padlock at the top of the screen Sep 18 14:45:30 and a key at the bottom Sep 18 14:45:39 ah and you grab it and drag it? Sep 18 14:45:49 to unlock the phone you click and slide the key into te lock Sep 18 14:46:18 ScaredyCat: Looks like you can only slide it straight up Sep 18 14:46:20 hehe. fun. i'd rather use suspend to lock though Sep 18 14:46:42 otherwise power consumption is much too high on 01 Sep 18 14:46:49 what about gstreamer error with mediaplayer? I tried to kill pulseaudio but there is always the internal data flow error. Sep 18 14:46:49 Dialer seems working on boot without restaring gsmd Sep 18 14:46:55 Guess it would be too difficult if you could move it all around Sep 18 14:47:20 mickey|ICE77: Is the uboot_env included in the default oe build by now? Sep 18 14:47:22 mickey|ICE77: in reality you still need to lock even when supended Sep 18 14:47:29 well, suspend is ok, but not until I want it to... Sep 18 14:47:38 I mena 5 minutes is too soon Sep 18 14:47:48 but I might want it locked Sep 18 14:48:55 Ghiottone|work it's mainly a cleanup version - i use the at-mode of libgsmd-tool now - to only change the commandstate of the modem when needed. - have done some gui cleanup - and applyed the patch ATD patch... - mostly gsm-settings related cleanups though Sep 18 14:49:15 A very primitve question, that is not answered in the FAQ (at least I didn't find it): Can you already Phone with the Neo?! Sep 18 14:49:21 ScaredyCat: mhm, the video you showed my earlier, was that the binary image from trolltech of a built from source? Sep 18 14:49:37 binary Sep 18 14:49:50 ScaredyCat: got the url? Sep 18 14:49:51 Bbird: I've only managed to do it once, but it should work if you give it a bit of effort. ;) Sep 18 14:49:59 ya Sep 18 14:50:14 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php Sep 18 14:50:18 CM: no. i didn't receive the env yet Sep 18 14:50:50 CM: Thanks for the answer. I assuming that recv calls is also problematic? Sep 18 14:51:54 mickey|ICE77: Ok, thanks. Just a bit annoying since I've been without a working boot menu since the first day. Also, I can only start the phone using Factory Reset. Sep 18 14:52:03 ScaredyCat : so you need to write a driver for directFB ;) Sep 18 14:52:08 hey mickey|ICE77 , I have received a NEO. So I could start implementing stuff :) Sep 18 14:52:38 CM: you broke it again? Sep 18 14:52:47 as soon as you guys have a solid idea, ui mockup and/or analysis, etc etc :) Sep 18 14:52:57 ScaredyCat: It get's broken every time I flash a new kernel Sep 18 14:52:59 BabelO: yeah, it'll be ready in 20 minutes... ok? ;) Sep 18 14:53:00 pvanhoof: cool. Sep 18 14:53:15 ScaredyCat: I can't figure out why the kernel overwrites it Sep 18 14:53:22 mickey|ICE77, mid October and starting November I have time too Sep 18 14:53:29 seems rather odd... Sep 18 14:53:38 are you useing a proper dfu-util ? Sep 18 14:53:46 pvanhoof: ok, the gsmd problems should hopefully be sorted out until then Sep 18 14:53:55 pvanhoof: i poke Sean to get started w/ a spec Sep 18 14:53:58 Right now, 100% availability starting November Sep 18 14:53:59 ScaredyCat: First I used the svn version, but now I use the one in oe Sep 18 14:54:07 mickey|ICE77, yeah that would be great Sep 18 14:56:26 pvanhoof: can you update me on the Ohm status? Sep 18 14:56:39 pvanhoof: like, should i start using it, or wait longer? Sep 18 14:56:40 mickey|ICE77, you'll have to ask robtaylor for that Sep 18 14:56:50 right Sep 18 14:56:50 robbie, we have questions :) Sep 18 14:57:11 He'll probably answer to start using it :) Sep 18 14:57:15 does that qtopia neo vid exist in better quality? so you could actually read something? Sep 18 14:57:23 robtaylor: i took a look into the wiki and it looks like i just want to use Ohm. it should cover 90% of what i need Sep 18 14:57:23 ScaredyCat: have you found a space bar or delete key on the Qtopia keyboard? Sep 18 14:57:29 But I can't give you an unbiased opinion, I haven't used it myself yet Sep 18 14:57:31 :D Sep 18 14:57:36 right Sep 18 14:57:36 kristian-m: great news. I started playing a bit with the NEO with my sim card on the other day. I almost got GPRS running with SettingsGUI and I long to try the new version :) Sep 18 14:57:49 buz: I think ScaredyCat said it was too big for youtube in the original quality, so yes the files are somewhere Sep 18 14:58:11 * buz pokes ScaredyCat Sep 18 14:58:44 thos: no... it's a it weird.. Sep 18 14:58:54 but then I haven't read any docs as yet :) Sep 18 14:59:40 buz: youtube cried when I tried to upload the full size one... Sep 18 14:59:47 how big? Sep 18 15:00:07 the 2nd vid only exists in 320x240 - but I have a 212mb better quality one... Sep 18 15:00:08 ScaredyCat: bittorrent it? Sep 18 15:00:19 Ghiottone|work i get gprs running every time now - added a dialog offering to kill gsmd before starting pppd... ;-) Sep 18 15:00:21 yeah bt sounds like a good idea Sep 18 15:00:35 heh... put it on piratebay :) Sep 18 15:01:11 Qtopia 0day Warez :-D Sep 18 15:01:19 ScaredyCat: ah, you slide right for space and left for delete Sep 18 15:01:34 ScaredyCat: up and down change to caps/symbols/numbers Sep 18 15:01:55 ahh cool... Sep 18 15:02:01 well found :) Sep 18 15:02:17 ScaredyCat: well, XorA guessed it actually Sep 18 15:02:23 and he doesn't even have it :-) Sep 18 15:02:39 thos: ScaredyCat I was just thinking what I would do with a keyboard in limited space, someone obviously theought the same Sep 18 15:03:03 mickey|ICE77: As promised, the real fix for the gsmd flowcontrol lockup problem is done - It's attached to the bug for your (and Harald's) review, but if you give the OK I can commit the kernel patch to OE. Let me know what you wish. :) Sep 18 15:03:10 that's actually really cool Sep 18 15:05:01 mwester: great. please go ahead and commit it and attach it to bugzilla for Harald. Harald doesn't monitor OE :) Sep 18 15:05:22 kristian-m: nice! I hope that setup.py solves the .pyo problem so that packages will work without problems! Sep 18 15:05:45 ah, misread the bug part Sep 18 15:05:50 already there, cool. Sep 18 15:12:21 Ghiottone|work there is an other thing - as i use atcmd mode now we have to depend on a new version of libgsmd-tool (revision >= 2957 from 2007-09-12) Sep 18 15:19:10 vow, qtopia on neo, anyone have photos? Sep 18 15:19:32 Sup3rkiddo: There's even videos :D Sep 18 15:19:44 look here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 15:19:57 and here http://www.youtube.com/user/FuzzyScaredyCat Sep 18 15:20:15 the wiki Sep 18 15:21:09 mickey|ICE77: poppler 0.6 is out Sep 18 15:21:35 mickey|ICE77: This might be useless, since not so many have bothered to vote, but I thought it was worth a shot: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 Sep 18 15:22:34 CM: i like the idea anyways, thanks for launching it Sep 18 15:22:47 i'm going to consult it when doing the 02-p0 list Sep 18 15:23:02 mickey|ICE77: Oh, nice. :) Sep 18 15:23:05 XorA: finally :) Sep 18 15:23:29 no promises though Sep 18 15:23:42 i don't know how many people will land on this list this time Sep 18 15:23:48 mickey|ICE77: you can now cease in your drive to get newer cvs versions :-) Sep 18 15:23:58 Of course not. The idea was just to help you know who has done what Sep 18 15:24:16 XorA: hopefully Sep 18 15:27:13 chttp://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent Sep 18 15:27:17 http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent Sep 18 15:28:49 hey - anyone played with qtopia on the neo yet? Sep 18 15:28:56 lol Sep 18 15:28:59 muppet Sep 18 15:28:59 :p Sep 18 15:29:01 I know... Sep 18 15:29:14 I have it on mine now... Sep 18 15:29:17 what's your take ScaredyCat Sep 18 15:29:29 tis pretty good... at least it works as a phone Sep 18 15:29:32 I'm getting Network Reg denied... not got enough network here to test it? Sep 18 15:29:42 using o2 in the UK.. Sep 18 15:29:59 odd.. Sep 18 15:30:10 I'm roaming wit a virgin sim in .nl ok Sep 18 15:30:30 yeah, I only have 1 bar of network on my SE w800i.. so it may simply be a lack of reception where I currently am Sep 18 15:30:42 just charging that battery so I can take it to my LUG meeting tonight :) Sep 18 15:31:00 did I do that torrent wrong? Sep 18 15:31:08 * ScaredyCat is seeding, no peers Sep 18 15:31:14 ScaredyCat: How much of it works.. Sep 18 15:31:40 everything I've tested (not tested bluetooth yet) Sep 18 15:31:57 and that's everthing, sms, calls etc... all that workd Sep 18 15:31:57 have you tested the headset? Sep 18 15:32:04 no... not yet Sep 18 15:32:16 ScaredyCat: I get no sound when I make a call Sep 18 15:32:22 ScaredyCat: I'm downloading now Sep 18 15:32:42 hmm... no peers here either :P Sep 18 15:32:42 thos : alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore Sep 18 15:32:57 ScaredyCat: I'm downloading too Sep 18 15:33:07 from me? Sep 18 15:33:18 trying too.. no luck thus far Sep 18 15:33:34 * ScaredyCat sees nothing Sep 18 15:33:51 * CM sees nothing too Sep 18 15:34:06 hey zecke Sep 18 15:34:09 mickeyl: what is the interface to between the S3362 and the Samsung? Sep 18 15:34:21 mickey|ICE77: hey! Sep 18 15:34:35 * CM is seeing two peers, 0 seeds Sep 18 15:34:40 ScaredyCat: what's your IP? Sep 18 15:34:41 mickey|ICE77: I hate my "Mobile", I want a Neo with UMTS! Sep 18 15:34:42 * bipolar is too Sep 18 15:34:51 zecke: me too Sep 18 15:34:52 I can see Ktorrent and Mainline Sep 18 15:34:55 I'm azureus Sep 18 15:35:03 * bipolar is ktorrent Sep 18 15:35:04 buy a neo and then a usb umts thingie :) Sep 18 15:35:13 * CM is bittorent-curses Sep 18 15:35:22 that thing is only the same size as the neo Sep 18 15:35:24 :) Sep 18 15:35:30 hey guys - i had just popped up a question in my head :) Sep 18 15:35:32 mickey|ICE77: I'm in Cologne now, where are you? Sep 18 15:35:43 83. 160 .37. 253 Sep 18 15:35:47 zecke: Karlsruhe. 25 minutes delay already Sep 18 15:35:48 ScaredyCat: There you are :) Sep 18 15:35:55 Is there a kind of change-log for openmoko? Sep 18 15:36:00 yay Sep 18 15:36:09 * CM is downloading at a ferocious 1.8 kb/s Sep 18 15:36:15 i see 2 peeps Sep 18 15:36:17 lol Sep 18 15:36:18 you've just arrived in the building :p Sep 18 15:36:20 Writchie: dunno offhand and i don't have the specs w/ me. Sep 18 15:36:26 * bipolar is stalled Sep 18 15:36:45 better? Sep 18 15:36:51 yes Sep 18 15:37:01 RalphEichelberge, well there is the openmoko-commits mailing list and the openembedded-commits mailing list Sep 18 15:37:05 about 85K down now Sep 18 15:37:09 * ScaredyCat notes CM is DHT Sep 18 15:37:09 ScaredyCat: Yes, at 35 kb/s now Sep 18 15:37:21 ScaredyCat: DHT? Sep 18 15:37:40 mickey where can i find it? Sep 18 15:37:46 CM: distributed tracking Sep 18 15:37:56 DHT some super quick thing Sep 18 15:38:04 mickeyl: AFAYK is the image memory now separate from SDRAM and hanging off the 3362? Sep 18 15:38:14 mickey|ICE77: I'm doing some janitor work on WebKit now... Sep 18 15:38:27 RalphEichelberge: the mailing lists? Sep 18 15:38:32 yes Sep 18 15:38:33 on the mailing list servers Sep 18 15:38:37 linuxtogo.org for OE Sep 18 15:38:42 and lists.openmoko.org for OM Sep 18 15:38:44 iirc Sep 18 15:38:47 zecke: cool :) Sep 18 15:39:11 someone frome Germainia Sep 18 15:39:20 using a news client? Sep 18 15:39:56 there might be nntp->email gateways Sep 18 15:40:00 but i have no idea bout these things Sep 18 15:40:02 * CM lets it run and bikes home Sep 18 15:40:02 * mickey|ICE77 not a sysadmin Sep 18 15:42:29 mickey: there are about 10 lists - which would you suggest ? Sep 18 15:42:41 RalphEichelberge: the commit list Sep 18 15:42:56 openmoko-commits or something Sep 18 15:43:20 i see - thx! Sep 18 15:44:33 kristian-m: mmm then I have to find a way to add version specific depends Sep 18 15:44:56 mickey|ICE77: how do I add version specific DEPENDS in bb files? Sep 18 15:45:30 DEPENDS = "foo-0.2.0" Sep 18 15:45:33 iirc Sep 18 15:45:59 or do you mean RDEPENDS? Sep 18 15:46:49 In that case RDEPENDS = "foo (0.2.0)" iirc Sep 18 15:47:11 mickey|ICE77: as you surely know trolltech now supports the neo officially. do you know what they use for interaction with the gsm-modem? a own gsmd? also gpl? Sep 18 15:47:35 they have their own modem interface Sep 18 15:47:38 yes, i think it's gpl Sep 18 15:48:06 thomasg: c++ classes with overloads for vendor specific stuff Sep 18 15:49:27 vendor specific? for the neo? Sep 18 15:49:47 the neo mux is a bit different from their default of Basic Sep 18 15:50:01 but i'm not sure at this point whether mux is being used in the preview Sep 18 15:50:24 they have a dev mode with no mux Sep 18 15:50:25 whatever it's doing, it's working :) Sep 18 15:50:55 Good morning. Sep 18 15:51:11 ScrardyCat: if you can't use GPRS and voice at same time it's mostly likely the dev mode Sep 18 15:51:20 Is there any new information about the AT&T SIM incompatibility? Sep 18 15:52:49 No. Sep 18 15:53:05 Nothing as to when it might be fixed, or ... Sep 18 15:53:49 the project very badly needs a mailing list - weekly report Sep 18 15:54:53 if you can't take 15 minutes to report - then you don't know what the f$*&9k your doing Sep 18 15:55:43 Writchie: your comment was directed at who? Sep 18 15:56:27 those not reporting status to community Sep 18 15:56:39 * Ralph call the day Sep 18 15:58:55 hmm, i think that's a bit unfair. show me a company that has its commit logs, butracker logs, and all online. yet you ask for even more stuff Sep 18 15:59:35 i don't think that's how it works. Sep 18 15:59:36 *shrug* Sep 18 15:59:38 we want your daily life changelog too please :P Sep 18 15:59:48 mickey: that's all minutia Sep 18 16:00:19 Writchie: you can install a green LED on your desktop if you want to check the status (think of homeland security) ;) Sep 18 16:00:51 i guess you really don't want community help Sep 18 16:01:20 oh yes, that's why i'm hanging around here Sep 18 16:01:25 encouraging your dbus work Sep 18 16:01:27 and stuff Sep 18 16:01:30 mickey|ICE77: thanks. what about DEPENDS on version greater than? Sep 18 16:01:30 *sigh* Sep 18 16:01:43 Ghiottone|work: that's not possible w/ bb atm. Sep 18 16:01:45 mickeyl: yes you are I appreciate that Sep 18 16:02:29 thos: you still here? Sep 18 16:02:40 mickey|ICE77: mmm I wonder how to get around this limitation... thanks, anyway Sep 18 16:03:01 ScaredyCat: hi Sep 18 16:03:20 Is it possible to fix the message on https://direct.openmoko.com/ ? Sep 18 16:03:30 Please note that due to unexpected high demand, even at this early development stage, our quantities up to and including August 2007 are already oversold. This means that any orders placed now will not be shipping before September 10, 2007. We ask for your understanding. Your credit card will only be charged immediately before delivery. Sep 18 16:04:21 there's an error in the /etc/init.d/alsa-state Sep 18 16:05:27 or at least, if you copy the /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state to /etc/asound.state it should give audio on boot Sep 18 16:05:48 emdete: Neo1973 has twice the memory of greenphone Sep 18 16:05:55 i think stereoout being the default state is right ok Sep 18 16:06:02 otherwise you wouldn't hear a ringtoe Sep 18 16:06:03 ringtone, even Sep 18 16:06:09 For those who need a break from high-tech mobile phones and smart devices: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=287 Sep 18 16:06:09 heh Sep 18 16:06:32 fwiw, i'll be relieved if we can stop doing hardware fire fighting and concentrating on the software platform Sep 18 16:06:43 but alas we are not there yet Sep 18 16:07:20 mhm... just for the record: QTopia text input is completely fucked up. Sep 18 16:10:09 ixs: how about calling ? Sep 18 16:10:20 how -> what Sep 18 16:10:33 I mean... is that working more reliably than with openmoko ? Sep 18 16:11:10 ahh ok, thanks mickey|ICE77 Sep 18 16:11:11 anyone in here started developing a gtk app yet? Sep 18 16:11:28 bkruse: started? Sep 18 16:11:44 ixs: why? Sep 18 16:11:50 it works perfectly Sep 18 16:11:58 polz: calling is fine. Sep 18 16:12:28 bluetooth works ace :) Sep 18 16:12:29 polz: the qtopia env does not use gsmd right now but their own libgsm plugin and dialing works fine. Sep 18 16:12:34 ixs: is it because you're not sure how to use it? Sep 18 16:12:48 hmm... I'll check it out, then :) Sep 18 16:12:54 10x :) Sep 18 16:12:56 andylockran: headset? Sep 18 16:12:57 the hardware is so good Sep 18 16:13:03 no, just file transfer Sep 18 16:13:06 OBEX push Sep 18 16:13:09 ahh cool Sep 18 16:13:22 ScaredyCat: hmmmm. I do not know, colleague was just using it and considered it bad. Sep 18 16:13:35 ScaredyCat: stuff like, not being able to switch of t9, or so Sep 18 16:13:49 ScaredyCat: typing in something and then seeing the typed word being replaced by something else. Sep 18 16:13:51 thos: as in can give me source, like a skeleton app almost, if that makes sense. Sep 18 16:13:51 even got the pictures loaded on the phone that I sent Sep 18 16:14:05 well, so long as you know the extra functions, swipe left, right up down Sep 18 16:14:14 someone write a media player for qtopia.. Sep 18 16:15:31 bkruse: there are plenty of tutorials on gtk+ Sep 18 16:17:41 is the neo sold in july a gta01bv4? Sep 18 16:17:50 thos: oh, I know Sep 18 16:17:53 All neos sold are. Sep 18 16:17:57 yes Sep 18 16:18:00 i mean binding the openmoko's gtk type things, like developing in pidgin Sep 18 16:18:05 ok Sep 18 16:18:13 for drawing windows inside the interface, their gtk wrappers. Sep 18 16:18:24 bkruse: the wrappers are minimal at the moment Sep 18 16:18:41 thos: so people are trying to draw windows and widgets and buttons on their own? Sep 18 16:18:51 not on their own, but rather with hacked sizes Sep 18 16:19:11 bkruse: no Sep 18 16:19:16 bkruse: no hacks involved Sep 18 16:19:30 bkruse: this is all done properly Sep 18 16:19:39 rather than hacked together with a bolt on framework Sep 18 16:19:46 wow.. confirmation emails from openmoko.org's mailman just come in.. 3 weeks later.... wow! Sep 18 16:19:51 bkruse: please read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GUI_Style_Guidelines Sep 18 16:20:23 so, I flashed a new u-boot a few weeks ago and it seems to be extremely corrupted and now I can't nand erase the rootfs. if I flash the newest u-boot, might that solve the problem? Sep 18 16:22:25 riot: same here, just received some older bugzilla mails Sep 18 16:22:49 someone must've just kicked some mailservers butt.. Sep 18 16:23:52 * mickey|ICE77 reads the qtopia neo thread Sep 18 16:23:54 fun Sep 18 16:25:57 thos: great! thats what I needed, thanks! Sep 18 16:28:16 aha Sep 18 16:28:21 qtopia qpls their toolkit Sep 18 16:28:28 announces integration with neo :) Sep 18 16:28:29 sweet Sep 18 16:28:46 holycow holycow Sep 18 16:29:19 what Sep 18 16:29:19 andylockran: Sep 18 16:29:28 woaahh Sep 18 16:29:45 you answered before I called you! Sep 18 16:30:12 ScaredyCat: I just saw holycow holycow Sep 18 16:30:18 ahh Sep 18 16:31:03 the bt file transfer worked fine.. ? I'm loathed to test it here as every time i plug in the bt dongle it kills my wifi Sep 18 16:31:18 yeah, bt file transfer worked ace Sep 18 16:31:33 jpeg opened on the phone good too - though needed rotating and that's not immediately obvious Sep 18 16:31:51 :o Sep 18 16:31:54 cool.. Sep 18 16:31:59 where did it store it ? Sep 18 16:32:21 just hope that the "network registration denied" error disappears when I take it outside on the concrete jungle I'm in... Sep 18 16:32:35 * of the Sep 18 16:33:11 btw - whoever wanted to nand erase thingy - I didn't use sudo to cu to the device Sep 18 16:33:22 it didn't work with sudo.. but worked without it Sep 18 16:33:24 people come seeking refuge and ask: "is the new batch shipped yet? at least to the US?" Sep 18 16:33:30 and good news about qtopia for openmoko, standing ovation folks. Sep 18 16:33:54 this is the busiest this place has been since 9th July... Sep 18 16:34:03 busiest - most repetitive.. but good Sep 18 16:35:10 ScaredyCat: howto screenshot of qtopia on neo? Sep 18 16:35:27 cat /dev/fb0 >myfile.raw Sep 18 16:36:26 then fb2png myfile.raw myimage.png 9 480 640 16 Sep 18 16:39:41 it's impossible to work with a bbq 10 m away Sep 18 16:39:47 damn IEEE student branch Sep 18 16:42:26 ScaredyCat: what can open the raw file from the screenshot? Sep 18 16:42:42 us fb2png Sep 18 16:42:44 it stored it in a special file folder (bottom right icon on main menu) Sep 18 16:42:46 use Sep 18 16:42:55 fb2png myfile.raw myimage.png 9 480 640 16 Sep 18 16:43:16 where on the filesystem though? Sep 18 16:43:26 haven't looked yet.. give me 2 Sep 18 16:43:44 how can I ssh into qtopia Sep 18 16:43:47 ssh Sep 18 16:43:57 :) Sep 18 16:44:05 ip addy? Sep 18 16:44:08 make sure you setup dhcp etc Sep 18 16:44:29 is it a similar setup to OM? Sep 18 16:44:57 yeah, but you a) need a dhcp server or b) need to onfig it with fixed ip Sep 18 16:45:43 click (saner + screwdriver) icon Sep 18 16:45:49 then internet Sep 18 16:45:58 saner == spanner Sep 18 16:46:27 yup Sep 18 16:46:49 then click bottom left icon (looks like a 'list') Sep 18 16:47:00 then select 'new' from that menu Sep 18 16:47:05 yup.. Sep 18 16:47:13 select ethernet Sep 18 16:47:23 then ip settings Sep 18 16:47:45 if you disable the 'autom IP' you can set it manually Sep 18 16:47:59 how do you input numbers? Sep 18 16:48:02 or run a dhcp server on your pc/lappy :) Sep 18 16:48:13 yeah I have a dhcp server on the comp Sep 18 16:48:15 I'll do that Sep 18 16:48:20 when you get the keyboard Sep 18 16:48:21 ... Sep 18 16:48:38 do a stroke down... Sep 18 16:48:42 ie Sep 18 16:49:05 position just above the 't' and drag down to 'c' Sep 18 16:49:19 the qwerty kb should change Sep 18 16:49:23 to numbers...# Sep 18 16:49:47 you can go the other way too.. + if you keep doing it you get more layouts Sep 18 16:50:04 stroke left to delete Sep 18 16:50:37 ScaredyCat: this belongs on #qtopia doesn't it? Sep 18 16:51:08 no.. Sep 18 16:51:36 people want to explore it as an option... Sep 18 16:51:42 neo ownrs. Sep 18 16:51:54 they wont go to #qtopia Sep 18 16:52:03 which is fine, but this is group for openmoko not qtopia or neo Sep 18 16:52:16 besides the more we try things out. the more we can see what works well on the neo Sep 18 16:52:44 i'm not opposed to this all, just keeping it in the right forum Sep 18 16:53:00 IMO. Sep 18 16:53:26 IMHO Sep 18 16:53:28 If it gets swamped by QT or neo, or VMS, or .. traffic then we need to do something. Sep 18 16:53:39 but at the moment it's quite far from that. Sep 18 16:55:37 well, to be frank, this channel has always been about both openmoko s/w *and* the neo... Sep 18 16:55:44 yeah, I think if it does, then there need to be a #neo1973 channel Sep 18 16:56:20 fragmentation at this point is probably not a good idea Sep 18 16:56:35 not unless it's needed Sep 18 16:56:47 and currently, it's probably not needed Sep 18 16:58:43 ScaredyCat: amen Sep 18 16:59:20 ok - this is getting a little silly (sorry for this) how do I see what ip address my dhcp server gave my phone... Sep 18 17:00:14 cat /var/log/messages Sep 18 17:01:46 you using dhcpd ? Sep 18 17:03:35 yeah Sep 18 17:04:17 and passwd? Sep 18 17:04:59 andylockran: did you set your phone to dhcp? Sep 18 17:05:04 username and pasword not needed Sep 18 17:05:15 cat /var/log/messages | grep dhcpd Sep 18 17:05:25 should list the mac address + request Sep 18 17:09:16 argh.. no way of seeing IP on the devide Sep 18 17:09:17 device Sep 18 17:18:06 what's the purpose of the center connector on the Neo battery? Sep 18 17:18:22 DukeOfURL: earth... Sep 18 17:18:41 The label says "TH" Sep 18 17:20:21 no idea - I'll see if I can find out Sep 18 17:24:17 Temperature Sep 18 17:24:24 it's got a THermocouple connected to it Sep 18 17:25:43 that was the bluetooth :/ Sep 18 17:27:34 Are the usb devices from the neo exposed to the host in qemu-neo1973? Sep 18 17:27:47 will it shut down if it gets too hot? Sep 18 17:28:00 or does the CPU have to shut it down? Sep 18 17:29:40 this is dead bad.. I can't setup the ethernet connection.. there's the one that says "online" but I can't configure it.. and the one I can configure is "unavailable" Sep 18 17:31:00 both 'eth'? Sep 18 17:31:36 posibly.. but i can't do anything to the first entry deleting included Sep 18 17:31:55 * SpeedEvil looks at O2's Iphone offering. Sep 18 17:32:17 You can't even move your existing O2 number to it. Sep 18 17:32:23 lol Sep 18 17:32:38 that seems.... retarded Sep 18 17:32:44 SpeedEvil: it's a bit of a pyrich victory for O2 I reckon.. they're "upgrading their UMTS network to edge" Sep 18 17:32:53 which to all intents and purposes is a downgrade Sep 18 17:32:54 i'm pretty sure it'd be illegal too Sep 18 17:33:07 it's just a bad thing... Sep 18 17:33:08 number portability is a requirement Sep 18 17:33:23 argh.. but my current predicament is bugging me Sep 18 17:33:23 To give everyone a chance, there'll be a limit of two iPhones per customer in-store and online. Oh, and we're afraid we can't accept cash. Sep 18 17:33:35 wtf! Sep 18 17:33:38 no cash? Sep 18 17:33:45 roflmao Sep 18 17:33:58 Sorry - that's only buisness customers. Others can mve the number Sep 18 17:34:14 andylockran: i don't see what's wrong. Sep 18 17:34:17 35 pounds/mo for 18mo Sep 18 17:34:23 can't you just config it non dhcp... Sep 18 17:34:37 ie with the 192.168.0.202 address? Sep 18 17:34:46 ScaredyCat: it is completely unconfigurable - I would config it non dhcp.. (it's running qtopia Sep 18 17:35:13 I dont get why you can't just click the checkbox Sep 18 17:35:26 it doesn't load into that screen Sep 18 17:35:30 I have the list of devices Sep 18 17:35:39 even when you do 'new' ? Sep 18 17:35:40 but the eth device is static.. click on it and nothing Sep 18 17:35:53 yeah.. when I do new it creates eth1 which is 'unavailable' Sep 18 17:35:55 are you trying to reconfigure it while connected? Sep 18 17:36:24 According to The Guardian, O2's UK agreement will see the mobile operator give Apple up to 40 percent of its iPhone revenues... Sep 18 17:36:30 Ow. Sep 18 17:36:49 yeah, saw that ... note revenue, not net profit Sep 18 17:38:42 yoink! Sep 18 17:38:46 hey Sep 18 17:38:49 how can I disconnect it? Sep 18 17:39:03 That's insane. Jobs *must* be spiking the water in these secret meetings with the carriers. Sep 18 17:39:23 welcome back heinlein Sep 18 17:42:10 hmm the qtopia release works quite well. Sep 18 17:42:52 So it seems stable? Sep 18 17:42:53 Score one for KDE over GNOME? Sep 18 17:43:09 i actually only managed to crash an application once so far. Sep 18 17:43:29 i expected a lot more instability.. especially since i'm used to opie. Sep 18 17:44:01 there are some quirks in the user interface.. the mixer settings are still incorrect. Sep 18 17:44:24 but calling/recieving calls works well. Sms recpection works good. Sep 18 17:44:44 i haven't been able to sync with libopensync-opie.. Sep 18 17:45:18 hey but it always asks for pin at startup.. and no gsmd that dies at random. :) Sep 18 17:45:37 Then you could actually use it ! Sep 18 17:45:38 :p Sep 18 17:45:47 its actually useable yes. Sep 18 17:45:55 folken: does it work well enough that you could use it as a phone? Sep 18 17:46:03 Jiten: yeah Sep 18 17:46:06 Jiten: i'm using it since today. Sep 18 17:46:16 ooo Sep 18 17:46:19 Jiten: full time.. my se k600i died. Sep 18 17:46:27 how about power management? Sep 18 17:46:32 that is... battery life :) Sep 18 17:46:45 not sure yet about that one. Sep 18 17:47:11 but it blanks the display and wakes up reliably. Clock is screwed however.. doesn't run at the correct tic rate. Sep 18 17:48:15 that's actually a rather big minus. I use my phone as a clock :P Sep 18 17:48:18 hi all Sep 18 17:48:30 could a dual boot openmoko/qtopia be done? Sep 18 17:48:42 Ghiottone: there;s talk on that on the lists Sep 18 17:48:55 weird. why isn't OpenMoko using the same GSM daemon as qtopia? Sep 18 17:48:58 theoretically, yes.. but SD usage would be required Sep 18 17:49:22 orospakr: qtopia's wasn't GPL'd til today.. hence the excitement (as I understand it) Sep 18 17:49:28 ah! Sep 18 17:49:28 OK! Sep 18 17:49:31 andylockran, yeah I saw. I was about to try to do it. I got an idea but don't know Sep 18 17:49:32 that was the non-free piece. Sep 18 17:49:33 andylockran: most of it was I read. Sep 18 17:50:01 Jiten: yeah, gsm being a part of what was Sep 18 17:51:16 where are the images of qtopia for the neo? Sep 18 17:51:22 heh.. somehow i don't expect many openmoko devs running off for qtopia Sep 18 17:51:44 Not trying to spam the channel or anything, but I'm kinda hard up for money so I threw my moko up on ebay. Sep 18 17:51:48 http://cgi.ebay.com/OpenMoko-Neo1973-GTA01BV4_W0QQitemZ180158766008QQihZ008QQcategoryZ38331QQcmdZViewItem Sep 18 17:52:02 just an FYI... in case someone is looking for one Sep 18 17:52:45 Ghiottone, qtopia.net Sep 18 17:52:59 anyone willing to review my recipe for pywebkitgtk? http://io.fenlight.com/~openmoko-build/local/packages/python/python-pywebkitgtk_git.bb Sep 18 17:54:02 ruoso, thanks Sep 18 17:54:34 but anyway... the qtopia software doesn't seem much in better shape than the later versions of openmoko Sep 18 17:55:23 the sound problem also appears in it... Sep 18 17:56:36 tuukkah, is it failing? Sep 18 17:57:02 Ghiottone, no, seems to be working but i'd like to know if i'm doing something "the wrong way" Sep 18 17:57:18 how does the qtopia stuff build the kernel? Sep 18 17:57:29 or do they use an openmoko build Sep 18 17:58:03 hozer, they use a openmoko build Sep 18 17:58:11 even the bootsplash is the same Sep 18 17:58:18 yeah.. it's kewl Sep 18 17:58:30 advantages of open hardware Sep 18 17:58:46 consumer choice.. and improved sets of software (both openmoko and qtopia) Sep 18 17:58:59 today was a big day.. Sep 18 17:59:03 yep... it's the best thing that can happen Sep 18 17:59:15 this creates demands for more hardware Sep 18 17:59:27 yeah, which gets more developers with devices Sep 18 18:01:10 tuukkah, do you have any .pyo files? Sep 18 18:02:21 Ghiottone, not at this point at least, it's just a .so Sep 18 18:03:49 tuukkah, then I see no problem with it. but I'm just a newbie in bb recipes. Sep 18 18:04:27 Ghiottone, do you know what's the process to get it included officially in oe and om? Sep 18 18:04:58 (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte Re: Message duplicates Sep 18 18:04:58 (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Fwd: OpenMoko 2007.2 on Palm TX and 1 other mails Sep 18 18:04:58 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: The ongoing SRCREV saga Sep 18 18:05:29 ruoso: the sound problem is minor Sep 18 18:06:12 (script) planet: Daniel Willmann: Navit on Neo1973 https://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/articles/2007/09/18/navit-on-neo1973 Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Greece - we are coming http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/09/15/greece-we-are-coming/ Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Digged http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/09/14/digged/ Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: OpenMoko 2007.2 testing http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/09/13/openmoko-20072-testing/ Koen Kooi: A quick guide to freeing your A78 Sep 18 18:06:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Rotary_Dialer]] [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[User:ChrisLord]] [[User:Phisky]] [[Basic_End-user/de]] [[OpenMoko_Wiki_Editing_Guidelines/de]] [[User:Crazycoyote]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] and other changes Sep 18 18:07:23 tuukkah, yes. you have to open a bug at openembedded Sep 18 18:07:45 tuukkah, and then tell the bug number to someone like rwhitby or mickeyl I think Sep 18 18:08:23 oh yeah.... Sep 18 18:08:42 I can hear the GSM signal interference in the neo speaker when I make a call Sep 18 18:09:40 is the rootfs of qtopia 32MB? Sep 18 18:09:46 eootfs Sep 18 18:09:48 yeah Sep 18 18:09:55 small.. Sep 18 18:10:18 does it mean that the root fs size should be 32mb too? Sep 18 18:10:18 can anyone tell me when the next shipment of the phones is in? been waiting for 2 weeks >:@ Sep 18 18:10:25 sorry Sep 18 18:10:28 I'm about to repartition the SD card... Sep 18 18:10:38 the tgz with them both in is 32MB Sep 18 18:10:40 hold on Sep 18 18:11:17 qtopis rootfs = 31.3MB Sep 18 18:11:33 krn = 1.5MB Sep 18 18:11:37 andylockran, thanks! Sep 18 18:11:41 no problsm Sep 18 18:11:53 mookid: gta_01 or gta_02? Sep 18 18:11:56 andylockran, the problem I see now is that qtopia's krnl is 2.6.21 Sep 18 18:12:04 let us know how you get on with networking.. I'm stuck on it Sep 18 18:12:07 what's wrong with that? Sep 18 18:14:14 hmm.. ok i have a bug that in the qtopia image that prevents it from being my phone replacement.. it doesn't wake up reliably on incoming calls. Sep 18 18:14:38 andylockran, the openmoko kernel is 2.6.22.5 atm Sep 18 18:14:46 folken: does openmoko? ;) Sep 18 18:14:47 andylockran, so I can't use the same for the dual boot Sep 18 18:15:12 andylockran, for networking, there was a chat some hours ago on how to get it working Sep 18 18:15:31 andylockran, iirc you should have a dhcp server on your machine or set up the phone with a fixed ip address Sep 18 18:17:30 can the u-boot read the kernel from the sd card? Sep 18 18:17:45 From memory, yes. Sep 18 18:17:52 I think it's two part. Sep 18 18:17:57 'read from SD' Sep 18 18:18:00 execute Sep 18 18:18:22 where does it have to be on the SD card? Sep 18 18:19:04 Anywhere - but the SD card has to be formatted ext2 as I understnad it Sep 18 18:20:04 anywhere? what does it mean? I have two partitions on the sd. first is ext2, second is the qtopia jffs2 image Sep 18 18:20:22 Anywhere on the ext2 partition I mean Sep 18 18:20:27 it's read as a file. Sep 18 18:20:37 I think it's documented on [[bootloader]] Sep 18 18:20:42 "Where is the TV-Out possibilty ? Nearly every Smartphone in this Price Class has this possibility to display Data over a Beamer !" is "beamer" a german mistranslation to english of "projector"? Sep 18 18:21:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P1_Review Sep 18 18:21:49 SpeedEvil, ah so I need a pc then Sep 18 18:22:23 Ghiottone: I don't think you do. Sep 18 18:22:33 SpeedEvil, do you think I can create a menu entry? Sep 18 18:22:46 Should be able to. Sep 18 18:23:02 I don't know really - I'd advocate reading the docs, I haven't done that. Sep 18 18:26:27 nearly every? Sep 18 18:26:37 * anrp is ... vaguely impressed Sep 18 18:27:17 I suspect that "nearly every" == "a few of the most expensive Nokias". Sep 18 18:28:57 it boots as I do ext2ls mmc 0 ... Sep 18 18:28:58 strange Sep 18 18:31:05 hi i've got a problem error 255 when trying to run openmoko: http://dpaste.com/20017/ Sep 18 18:33:19 hrm, I signed up for wiki account, tried to add my name to phase 2 wishlist, got told I must verify my e-mail address to edit pages, went to prefs, hit confirm, it sent mail, I got mail 2 seconds later, I clicked confirm link and it says, "Invalid confirmation code. The code may have expired" Sep 18 18:37:27 and I can't find any link for mailing about bugs. hrm, do the wiki admins use bugzilla also? Sep 18 18:40:42 well, they sort of do, it seems. found category for it, but also bugs open for very long time. :) maybe I found a spot I can contribute to. I'm more of a sysadmin/web dev than low level coder Sep 18 18:41:33 hi! Is it possible recover a openmoko WITHOUT JTAG? A standard flash doesn't help me since the "DFU capable device" is not recognized. Sep 18 18:42:05 krau: what did you do to it? Sep 18 18:42:06 ah, it sent a second confirmation mail a few minuets later and this one worked. so at least it's not a showstopper bug Sep 18 18:42:51 I lost the bootloader :-( Sep 18 18:43:01 hi i've got a problem error 255 when trying to run openmoko: http://dpaste.com/20017/ Sep 18 18:43:06 krau: what does it do when you press the power button? Sep 18 18:43:23 And how did you 'lose' it? Sep 18 18:43:28 nothing Sep 18 18:44:46 the flashing instructions doesn't help me. Probably the devirginator is the only way to recover it. Sep 18 18:44:55 Are you sure it's not battery discharged? Sep 18 18:45:41 if you didn't flash/erase u-boot, it shouldn't be possible to destroy it Sep 18 18:45:59 how can I charge it? for this case, connect the usb cable will not help me. I have a debug board, but I don't have JTAG Sep 18 18:46:02 It's _possible_ - random root code bugs. Sep 18 18:46:06 Banishingly unlikely. Sep 18 18:46:14 Unplug battery Sep 18 18:46:16 wait 30 mins Sep 18 18:46:22 plug in Sep 18 18:46:23 replug battery Sep 18 18:46:25 wait 10 minutes Sep 18 18:46:28 (after unplugging) Sep 18 18:46:31 :) Sep 18 18:46:37 now plug into USB, and wait an hour Sep 18 18:47:07 now I remember why I went into software instead of hardware Sep 18 18:47:13 Do you have a DMM? Sep 18 18:47:43 thanks, I will try. But it the worst case, if this procedure doesn't help me, is it possible try recover it without JTAG? Sep 18 18:47:55 DMM? Sep 18 18:48:08 Digital Multimeter. Sep 18 18:48:26 krau: it's _Really_ unlikely that the flash has become damaged, unless you were doing odd stuff Sep 18 18:48:33 SpeedEvil: agreed. Sep 18 18:48:39 playing with dd, or suck Sep 18 18:48:42 such Sep 18 18:48:51 by odd you mean retarded. Sep 18 18:49:23 don't blame me, someone(not me) did that ;-) Sep 18 18:49:31 what did they do? Sep 18 18:53:28 I have no idea! Sep 18 18:57:36 rwhitby, mickey|zzZZzz, i've submitted a recipe for PyWebKitGtk at http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3028 Sep 18 18:59:27 U-boot has a problem, core dump 17958 Segmentation fault Sep 18 19:00:40 haven't been here for a while :) Sep 18 19:02:34 GPL'd QPE sounds good :) has anybody tried it yet? Sep 18 19:02:43 s/yet/already/ Sep 18 19:02:43 LuitvD meant: GPL'd QPE sounds good :) has anybody tried it already? Sep 18 19:03:11 LuitvD: yes a few people have tried it. it apparently works pretty well Sep 18 19:03:26 niice Sep 18 19:03:42 I hope I can try it on my device too :) (not a FIC) Sep 18 19:05:16 has it been discussed on the ML somewhere? or on the wiki already? Sep 18 19:05:47 Jiten: i found a show stopper for me.. it doesn't wake up reliably on incoming calls. Sep 18 19:05:59 folken: it has problems waking up in general Sep 18 19:06:16 ixs: pressing the buttons a couple of times usually gets it awake. :) Sep 18 19:06:55 sounds like my macbook pro :P Sep 18 19:07:25 folken: does yours flash white as well? Sep 18 19:11:37 blahblahblah qtopia on the moko announced. Sep 18 19:12:02 I was happier to see it be announced for the 770 :) Sep 18 19:14:48 is openmoko no longer working with qemu? Sep 18 19:15:13 it worked (almost) fine for me... Sep 18 19:15:55 i've tried both manually and with mokomakefile, it worked a week ago Sep 18 19:16:41 Mek http://dpaste.com/20017/ Sep 18 19:17:36 dkr: gta_01, at least. as i know gta_02 is bit way off Sep 18 19:17:48 I had the same crash, but after removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh everything seemed to work fine... Sep 18 19:18:15 cool, i'll try Sep 18 19:22:35 there seems to be alot of qt/opia trolls around. Sep 18 19:23:54 notserpe: once it's building and working those troll might become fanboys (or fangirls, but i doubt there are many if any women here) Sep 18 19:24:16 Hey, there are some women here. Sep 18 19:24:23 Aria, kill! Sep 18 19:24:37 I'm annoyed with the potential developer split and fact that they're pushing this on *openmoko" lists/spaces. Sep 18 19:24:59 mmazur. Sep 18 19:25:09 Aria, oh, nothing :) Sep 18 19:25:15 Hah Sep 18 19:25:34 * Aria waves to cindy. At least there's more than one! Sep 18 19:27:33 notserpe: ohh come one. shuddup already. The qtopia thing is a good thing. A) it silences the "why are you not doing kde on the device?" people and results in kde fans buying the phone as well. yay. B) qtopia is actually useful, so the people who have to use the device as their main phone can do so. More fun for them. Sep 18 19:27:40 crap Sep 18 19:27:45 he went away. Sep 18 19:28:09 A wave back at you Aria. Sep 18 19:29:47 ixs: don't feed the t... well Sep 18 19:30:09 i mean, you got two valid points here Sep 18 19:30:23 :) Sep 18 19:30:25 thx Sep 18 19:33:13 hello im curious about the this openmoko... does it support the V3 Razr ? or will it in the future? Sep 18 19:33:14 Grungebunny: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 18 19:33:56 Qt is nicer than Gtk+ by a lot Sep 18 19:34:02 Grungebunny: right now, it doesn't even support the neo properly, so perhaps it will, in a few months or even years Sep 18 19:34:29 u_l-lap: that's a matter of taste. Vim is better than emacs and so on. Sep 18 19:34:42 polz: it is more robust, far more featureful, etc. Sep 18 19:34:43 hmm.. probably won't be using that phone in years.. but I still love the idea of an OpenOS for a phone. Sep 18 19:34:56 u_l-lap, are you trying to start a flamefest or what? Sep 18 19:34:58 and you can generate complete bindings for any language with a couple hundred lines of code (if that) Sep 18 19:35:01 just saying Sep 18 19:35:05 less painful to deal with Sep 18 19:35:11 I'm sure just. Sep 18 19:35:21 u_l-lap: and re-implements a large part of stl, plus it needs a non-standard pre-processor Sep 18 19:35:24 mjr: you're the one who brought up a flamefest! Sep 18 19:35:36 pfft, go away Sep 18 19:35:38 so openmoko is gnu, and qutopia Sep 18 19:35:43 is kde? Sep 18 19:35:52 polz: which isn't a huge deal since you get nice generic collections and whatnot Sep 18 19:36:20 webjames: openmoko is something like the gnome mobile platform and qtopia is Qt based Sep 18 19:36:26 u_l-lap: sure, but it's ugly. It solves the problems one layer higher than they're supposed to be solved. Sep 18 19:36:27 * hozer thinks we need a #moko-vs-qtopia-deathmatch channel Sep 18 19:36:41 webjames: qtopia could be imported into openmoko if someone packaged it Sep 18 19:36:48 hozer: hehe, true :) Sep 18 19:36:54 polz: C++ and C are both ugly Sep 18 19:36:56 webjames: It's a battle of T-shirts -- when what counts is what's beneath. Sep 18 19:37:02 u_l-lap: cool, i'm a gnome fan, and love the openmoko interface Sep 18 19:37:16 but with Qt you at least get a decent amount of runtime type info so you can generate nicer bindings into a real language Sep 18 19:38:37 but currently the GTA01 kernel doesn't do power management, there isn't a driver for the GPS -- surely the battle of the GUIs can wait until we get the basics working? Please? Sep 18 19:39:34 mwester: luckily the qpe gsm stuff appears to have been gpled today so maybe gsmd can steal some of the code and work Sep 18 19:39:48 i suppose the argument is, if there are two interfaces resources are going to be spread thinner. but maybe having choice is a good thing. gnome and kde have worked Sep 18 19:40:35 u_l-lap: Qt is superior toolkit, but saying this in a gnome-biased channel is one of the forms of suicide Sep 18 19:40:37 u_l-lap: :) Yep, I'm hopeful we can learn from that -- but I don't think the qpe stuff has a driver for the GPS chip either. Sep 18 19:40:38 is there a command-line arg to ssh so it doesn't complain about known_hosts every time I reflash my neo? Sep 18 19:41:17 speaking of which.. isn't there supposed to be a bin-only GPS driver out sometime? Sep 18 19:41:34 hozer, there is Sep 18 19:41:38 bmidgley: I think it's a config file that operates globally, so if you change it you become vulnerable to man-in-the-middle attacks if you ssh to other servers... Sep 18 19:41:56 i just delete the file Sep 18 19:42:01 mjr: yeah? cool.. is anyone using it? Sep 18 19:42:02 hozer: Yes, it's being worked on, but apparently does not yet work. Sep 18 19:42:11 hozer, supposed to be out sometime. Sep 18 19:42:12 Hello, everyone. Sep 18 19:42:33 bmidgley, -o"StrictHostKeyChecking=no" might do it Sep 18 19:42:36 hozer: It's a closed-source library that interfaces with the GPS chip :( Sep 18 19:42:40 berkus: I'm already planning to write a mcclim based ui for my phone once I get a gta02 Sep 18 19:42:48 if I have time Sep 18 19:42:56 I'm trying qt/phone on openmoko, but get some jffs2 errors, then panic: no init found. Sep 18 19:43:03 u_l-lap: mcclim? Sep 18 19:43:04 Did anyone get it to work? Sep 18 19:43:18 berkus: lgpled implementation of the common lisp interface manager Sep 18 19:43:23 mwester: closed source is fine, for now.. as long as it works and there's no non-gpl kernel code ;) Sep 18 19:43:26 u_l-lap: oh dear Sep 18 19:43:47 u_l-lap: for some reason i suspect that'll work Sep 18 19:43:54 I just want to track cell tower signal strength Sep 18 19:43:56 pavelm: Yes, ScaredyCat at least Sep 18 19:44:16 damn it, i want my gta01 <:( Sep 18 19:44:18 it would be nice to have a collaborative real-world cell provider signal strenght map Sep 18 19:44:25 ok, I think I may have too old bootloader. Sep 18 19:44:45 hozer: Yep, that would be really interesting. Openmoko is ideal for mapping signal: both phone and gps :-) Sep 18 19:45:36 pavelm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 19:45:42 qtopia on neo has a lot of openmoko stuff underneath Sep 18 19:46:10 Thanks, CM! Sep 18 19:46:20 * u_l-lap departs Sep 18 19:46:49 qtopia on neo is openmoko drag Sep 18 19:46:56 * CM tries to inspire people to vote on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 Sep 18 19:49:36 notserpe: Maybe, but I still want to try it out. Sep 18 19:49:51 CM: cool Sep 18 19:52:01 cindy: heh, my apologies Sep 18 19:54:37 cw666: no problem - surely I am used to being in the extreme minority by now...being in hardware/software for > 20 years Sep 18 19:55:30 cindy: i have a friend who is vague about her first name to avoid being treated differently Sep 18 19:56:59 k Sep 18 19:58:40 notserpe: actually, the most serious problems with openmoko seem to be beneath the GUI Sep 18 19:59:01 polz: such as? Sep 18 19:59:07 notserpe: so qtopia shouldn't be that much of a drag Sep 18 19:59:14 notserpe: such as gsmd not working reliably Sep 18 19:59:41 or is that just the dialer's fault now ? Sep 18 20:00:33 notserpe: oh, and having a screwed-up sound system... although I guess that could be a GUI issue. Sep 18 20:00:41 it's a big drag on resources. the project poobahs have chosen GTK not QT for obvious reasons IMHO Sep 18 20:01:06 btw, is it possible to save the state of just some mixer channels into an alsa .state file ? Sep 18 20:01:15 polz: if something is broken, fix it. Sep 18 20:01:24 polz: no, gsmd is still b0rked for some people Sep 18 20:01:45 polz: don't attempt to split the community on UI Sep 18 20:01:45 notserpe: too bad the build system is also a drag ... while it might not be broken, I've been struggling with it for weeks now Sep 18 20:01:48 notserpe: btw, there are those who don't agree with you when it comes to GTK vs QT Sep 18 20:01:59 notserpe: so proponents of each should show what they can do and users can choose Sep 18 20:02:09 notserpe: I don't see the community producing that many fresh GUI apps as it is. Sep 18 20:02:10 cw666: there is no argument here. OpenMoko is GTK... live with it. Sep 18 20:02:36 notserpe: right, but there are plenty of people who want an open hackable phone but not openmoko, the neo' isn't a bad choice there Sep 18 20:02:36 serious developers are scarce and this is a resource suck at the moment. Sep 18 20:02:40 I think the problem here is not QT vs. GTK, it's OpenMoko vs. qtopia, isn't it? I mean: 2 sdks, 2 guis, 2 different softwaredistributions. and X vs FB Sep 18 20:02:41 (given there are so few options right now) Sep 18 20:03:03 cw666: last time I checked this was #openmoko and so were the mailing lists I subscribed to... Sep 18 20:03:22 notserpe: is there are neo mailist list or channel? Sep 18 20:03:27 thomasg: I hope the Qt people can be convinced to at least re-licence a part of their code under LGPL Sep 18 20:03:36 given here is likely to be condirable overlap in places does it hurt to talk about both here? Sep 18 20:03:48 cw666: so few options? the platform is free dude. Sep 18 20:03:48 polz: qtopia is completely under GPL afaik Sep 18 20:03:54 especially if SMS+dialer work flawlessly under qtopia Sep 18 20:04:15 thomasg: I know... that's what I'm worried about. Sep 18 20:04:18 notserpe: i'm talking about hardware, the neo is certainly more affordable and more 'open' than some alternatives Sep 18 20:04:34 cw666: like that provided by QT proponents for example Sep 18 20:04:37 polz: why? Sep 18 20:04:53 FIC largely won't care I suspect. Sep 18 20:05:04 netx: the greenphone isn't neither very open not inexpensive, so yes, there is probably a desire from some to support qtopia on the neo Sep 18 20:05:11 thomasg: because the Openmoko developers are going to have to re-implement much of the stuff already done by Trolltech Sep 18 20:05:13 netx sorry, i meants notserpe Sep 18 20:05:26 polz: it's under GPL, they could use it Sep 18 20:05:35 polz: why worried? if it works better and people use that, why do you care? Sep 18 20:05:47 tholin: they can't use it if they want to keep the base libs under LGPL Sep 18 20:05:52 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Image:Openexpo-flyer-draft.png]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Wishlist:PersonalWiki]] [[Wish_List]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Historybuff/notes]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Nand_erase]] Sep 18 20:05:52 which I beleive they do. Sep 18 20:05:54 if if if if if. Sep 18 20:06:17 why does everyone throw a fit about re-implementing stuff? Sep 18 20:06:18 the poobahs and FIC created openmoko... trolltech could have done this long ago. Sep 18 20:06:24 so I flashed qtopia... Sep 18 20:06:25 i dont why where people are hostile to Qt/Qtopia Sep 18 20:06:31 polz: oh, I didn't know that openmoko should be a platform with special support for closed apps Sep 18 20:06:39 multiple implementations are a GOOD thing!!!! Sep 18 20:07:05 if everyone used the same gsm libs, then one virus could take out all the phones Sep 18 20:07:07 I'm also the opinion that choise is a good thing. what I don't like is, that there are 2 SDKs Sep 18 20:07:10 polz: they do you need LGPL libraries? Sep 18 20:07:23 hozer: because if the basic phone functionality doesn't work by the time GTA02 comes out, I'm afraid Openmoko (the company) might fold. And I really wouldn't like that to happen. Sep 18 20:07:50 polz: there are more phones in the works elsewhere, i wouldn't worry too much Sep 18 20:08:05 gta02 for mass market is expected in december, maybe later. I think that openmoko will basically be usable than. Sep 18 20:08:06 polz: I second cw666.. Sep 18 20:08:12 thomasg: more like 1.5 SDK's Sep 18 20:08:18 cw666: not hostile, but the decision is made and this discussion is wasting time... perhaps all the qtopia types should go to #neo1973 or something? Sep 18 20:08:19 Writchie: yeah, right Sep 18 20:08:24 if openmoko folds, they are throwing away their huge first-mover advantage Sep 18 20:08:38 notserpe: perhaps they should, but i dont think they are doing any harm here right now Sep 18 20:08:40 I noticed, that the qtopia-"port" for the neo is based widely on openmoko/openembedded Sep 18 20:08:47 notserpe: if you dont want/like Qt then dont install it Sep 18 20:08:50 cw666: I doubt anyone else is going to be as comitted to opening the specs as the Openmoko people are. Sep 18 20:09:01 polz: openmoko != neo\ Sep 18 20:09:19 i think the neo is a wonderful idea in many ways personally, i think openmoko/openembedded is insane bloat though Sep 18 20:09:20 cw666: I thought the company was also called Openmoko now Sep 18 20:09:27 im not sure i like Qt/Qtopia either, but some options wont kill anyone Sep 18 20:09:39 polz: oh, perhaps, i dont follow the mailing lists Sep 18 20:09:57 cw666: options are great... but openmoko community needs focus and not distraction Sep 18 20:10:06 * pavelm would like to find a way to keep qtopia and X running side by side. Sep 18 20:10:23 pavelm: qtopia uses directfb? Sep 18 20:10:40 * pavelm thinks so, but did not verify yet. Sep 18 20:10:43 notserpe: the openmoko community needs a less problematic build system and working basic functionality. Sep 18 20:11:01 polz: right Sep 18 20:11:02 pavelm: if it does, it's probably a net loss on the gta02 then with opengl es 1.2 blah blah Sep 18 20:11:17 polz: so how is working on qt stuff going to solve that? Sep 18 20:11:25 given that using x means you can leverage x render foo and other stuff in hardware Sep 18 20:11:31 Ok, so I updated to 20070917 bootloader, and now have problems turning it on :-( Sep 18 20:11:36 notserpe: how is using Qt over GTK going to complicate that ? Sep 18 20:11:48 cw666: are you lobbying for openmoko to switch to qt/opia? Sep 18 20:12:06 notserpe: no, im simply saying i sure as hell dont want gnome shit on MY phone Sep 18 20:12:08 pavelm: can you at least connect to it as a serial device ? :/ Sep 18 20:12:13 notserpe: i dont care what others run, they are free to choose Sep 18 20:12:16 cw666: then you're sure in the wrong channel Sep 18 20:12:30 notserpe: there is no other channel, it's still relevant for gsmd for example Sep 18 20:12:37 notserpe: and power management, and kernel issues Sep 18 20:13:05 cw666: sorry, I came it late and I just see you talking ++qtopia Sep 18 20:13:12 http://pokylinux.org/#about this one too ? Sep 18 20:13:22 notserpe: i couldn't care for qtopia either to be quite honest Sep 18 20:13:31 hah! Sep 18 20:13:36 notserpe: if it turns out to work well enough, i might use it, or i might not Sep 18 20:13:45 notserpe: we'll see when it appears, right now it's just talk Sep 18 20:13:56 Hmm, at least qtopia managed to ask me for a pin... I was not able to enter it. Sep 18 20:14:07 So I disabled the pin It seems to have started up. Sep 18 20:14:16 ...and enabled bluetooth. _Bad_ idea. Sep 18 20:14:19 pavelm: you've install the qtopia release? Sep 18 20:14:45 Yes. Sep 18 20:14:54 pavelm: build it yourself or something they pushed out? Sep 18 20:14:55 It has absolutely no feedback on button press. Bad. Sep 18 20:15:21 cw: Something they pushed out. Compiling qtopia would be hard/lengthy process. Sep 18 20:15:49 it's a PR grab Sep 18 20:15:55 that is obvious Sep 18 20:15:56 morning :) Sep 18 20:16:02 any german speaking people around who'd like to review the the flyer for tomorrows openexpo in zurich? Sep 18 20:16:12 notserpe: And what did you expect? This had to happen. Sep 18 20:16:13 http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/a/a2/Openexpo-flyer-draft.png Sep 18 20:16:29 pavelm: not surprised. just annoyed. ;-) Sep 18 20:16:44 but let's call it what it is. Sep 18 20:17:05 notserpe: you'll be really annoed when m$ starts lashing out then Sep 18 20:17:10 notserpe: There should be nothing annoying on it. trolltech had to do it, for qtphone to stay relevant. Sep 18 20:17:22 sooner or later they will find open/linux phones a threat to their wince stuff Sep 18 20:17:32 notserpe: Good news is that now we can take a look at their code, and use bits we can use. Sep 18 20:17:36 cw666, we could hope :) Sep 18 20:17:48 how exactly does bitbake calculae the dependancies for packages and do they get cached anywhere ? Sep 18 20:17:51 pavelm: I don't care what TT is doing. I'm annoyed with the s/n regarding qt in my openmoko spaces. Sep 18 20:18:23 notserpe: Bad news is s/n and split development base. But it will end up positive in long run, I believe. Sep 18 20:19:27 * pavelm does not believe how slow qtopia is. Sep 18 20:19:44 pavelm: does it use the same bootloader? Sep 18 20:19:49 ...it seems even worse than gtk. Sep 18 20:19:49 pavel: I agree. Sep 18 20:19:53 pavelm: slower than the default openmoko ? Sep 18 20:19:58 cw: Same bootloader, same kernel. Sep 18 20:20:00 polz: Yes. Sep 18 20:20:04 ugh.. that's.. bad :( Sep 18 20:20:09 pavelm: ah... what URL did you donwload and install from? Sep 18 20:20:34 cw: its linked in the wiki. I just clicked there from the announcement and then closed the window :-( Sep 18 20:20:46 pavelm: but you didnt build it right? Sep 18 20:21:37 pavelm: do you have an sdcard inserted ? Sep 18 20:21:43 cw: No. Sep 18 20:21:51 bebel: Yes. I have debian installation on it. Sep 18 20:22:20 ..and indeed mmcqd is eating 10% of my cpu. What is going on? Sep 18 20:22:28 btw, does anyone know for sure if nokia bl-5c batteries are safe to use? ie. won't overcharge or anything silly? Sep 18 20:22:29 pavelm: maybe it is why, there is a daemon to index your sdcard first time so it take lot of cpu probably , but not sure Sep 18 20:22:38 cw666: won't charge at all Sep 18 20:22:40 I tried the qtopia earlier this morning and it just isn't for me. It was slow, power management doesn't work, and the contacts/tasks are a different format. It did read and send sms messages though. Sep 18 20:22:44 SpeedEvil: charges here Sep 18 20:23:02 Woo-hoo, phone calls! Sep 18 20:23:04 * polz is running into build problems again. Sep 18 20:23:07 cw Sep 18 20:23:10 odd. Sep 18 20:23:12 cw: are lithiums are pretty much the same. Sep 18 20:23:13 Dunno. Sep 18 20:23:19 cw: BUt it did not charge for me. Sep 18 20:23:27 I thought the thermistor would be wrong. Sep 18 20:23:27 ok, let me go get it now Sep 18 20:23:42 It _probably_ won't explode in normal use. Sep 18 20:23:43 now... if I run make build-package-task-openmoko-polz, it works fine... Sep 18 20:23:55 what does the battemp file say? Sep 18 20:24:10 SpeedEvil: booting now, sec Sep 18 20:24:20 s/sec/some minutes/ Sep 18 20:24:22 cw666 meant: SpeedEvil: booting now, some minutes Sep 18 20:24:32 but if I try to build make build-package-polz-openmoko-devel-image, which is the same as the default openmoko-devel-image, only it also depends on task-openmoko-polz... Sep 18 20:24:43 strange thing is that qtopia was faster on siemens sx1... with slower cpu. Sep 18 20:25:06 that was probablt qtopia 2 Sep 18 20:25:09 I get this: ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-polz: Sep 18 20:25:10 | libmp3lame0 (>= 3.96.1) libsdl-1.2-0 (>= 1.2.9) libsdl-1.2-0 (>= 1.2.9) libgl1 (>= 6.5.2) libsdl-1.2-0 (>= 1.2.9) libsdl-1.2-0 (>= 1.2.9) Sep 18 20:25:14 pavelm: ssh working? Sep 18 20:25:24 C7, the only interesting information is propably just the confirmation of the date of the release of the end userver version. it says end of 2007 Sep 18 20:25:25 cw: Yep, ssh works ok. Sep 18 20:25:29 pavelm: maybe it's because of the higher resolution screen Sep 18 20:25:33 pavelm: does it use X? Sep 18 20:26:04 cw: No, I do not think it uses X. Sep 18 20:27:12 the qtopia for neo does not use x Sep 18 20:27:17 now.. how does bitbake decide that task-openmoko-polz depends on some libs if it's required by polz-openmoko-devel-image, but it builds normally if I build it on it's own ? Sep 18 20:27:27 SpeedEvil: ok, something odd... powerup doesn't boot, it just hangs... i have to go to uboot then select boot Sep 18 20:27:38 SpeedEvil: im not sure if that's because of the battery or what just yet Sep 18 20:27:57 pavelm: did you try no remove sd card for first test ? Sep 18 20:28:10 BTW, like, this is awesome. Sep 18 20:28:26 babel: I was somewhere told not to run neo w/o sd card. I guess I'll just wait till it finishes trashing. Sep 18 20:29:18 you can run it without, as long as you put a spacer in place of the SD card Sep 18 20:29:31 ok ;) i try Qtopia standard on my BA, and it works fine my processor is pxa263 400 mhz Sep 18 20:29:35 SpeedEvil: ok, no, it doesnt claim to charge... but it think it was with uboot yesterday, when reflashing it claimed to enable fast-charge at the time Sep 18 20:29:36 with 128Mo Sep 18 20:30:05 babel: What is "BA"? Sep 18 20:30:18 babel: Yes, qtopia used to be usable on collie (zaurus 5500) Sep 18 20:30:31 pavelm: oups, sorry it is a HTC Bluenagel, i m recompiling qtopia preview for it now Sep 18 20:30:32 BTW, there is no panel when booting without SIM card Sep 18 20:30:38 charger mode being fast does not mean it will actually charge Sep 18 20:31:31 * pavelm_shower waits for qtopia to finish playing with SD card. Sep 18 20:31:35 cul Sep 18 20:31:46 oops Sep 18 20:32:16 SpeedEvil: perhaps, i wonder though, this battery is very old and the little green bar is higher now than before Sep 18 20:33:01 ill wait a bit and see, chgcur is low and chaotic Sep 18 20:33:03 cw: battery indicators behave strangely on old batteries. Sep 18 20:33:56 morricone: thats probably true (from your standpoint).. but this is intendet to wake interest not to give some new information to people who are already interested. People who will get this probably newer heard of om. Sep 18 20:34:27 pavelm_shower: i like openmoko gui design, i try it on my Blueangel, works too, but still problem with WIFI and bluetooth and also icon are too big :( Sep 18 20:35:57 babel: Om is really designed for fic these days. Sep 18 20:36:43 pavelm_shower: yes i know, but there is an effort to have it running on qvga display, after resizing some icon, it look better ;) Sep 18 20:43:59 pavelm_shower: ok, got it installed ... it's NOT at all slower for me here Sep 18 20:44:59 so, withing 20 minutes i can download qtopia, install it and make calls ... it actually works Sep 18 20:45:27 I'm getting dfu_download error -71 when trying to flash qtopia, anyone have a clue why? Sep 18 20:45:45 henla464: usb is being pissy, unplug, wait a few seconds and plug it back in Sep 18 20:45:47 that qtopia rootfs has prelink on it so you can run prelink to get things a tad faster starting Sep 18 20:46:05 do you guys discuss how good kde runs in #gnome aswell? :) Sep 18 20:47:10 cw666: ok, thanks, will try that Sep 18 20:47:18 Knirch: if it was relevant i think that would be fair Sep 18 20:47:31 can we stop being so anti-this and anti-that? Sep 18 20:47:40 I'm not anti Sep 18 20:47:42 i'm anti stopping. Sep 18 20:47:43 if something works better than the other, it shows there is room for improvement Sep 18 20:47:43 ;) Sep 18 20:47:57 both sides can strive towards the higher points of the other Sep 18 20:48:02 how do I ipkg the web browser down to the Neo? Nothing I've tried works... Sep 18 20:52:12 Ok, seems like mmc is quiet now. GOod Sep 18 20:52:30 C7: ping Sep 18 20:52:53 ...but qtopia is still slow :-( Sep 18 20:53:24 pavelm: it's not slower than the OE/OM stuff right now Sep 18 20:54:04 cw: It is for me. Anyway, I see 'database is locked Unable to fetch row' errors in syslog. Something went wrong there. Sep 18 20:55:31 pavelm: i dont see why it would be different ... maybe something is chewing CPU in the background for you? Sep 18 20:56:15 * pavelm retries w/o microSD card. Sep 18 20:56:25 pavelm: i have the microSD card in ... is there a reason i shouldn't? Sep 18 20:57:01 I've seen mmcqd eating a bit too much of CPU, so I'm trying removing it... Sep 18 20:58:34 hmm, now it works _way_ better. Sep 18 20:58:50 ...like "usable". GOod. Sep 18 20:59:17 yeah, this right now, i could actually *USE* as a phone Sep 18 20:59:19 pavelm, cw666 : you have maybe not same sd card size, or not same free space ;) Sep 18 21:00:01 hmm, they have very funny keyboard. No backspace, but it can "zoom" on keys. Sep 18 21:01:00 pavel, just make a line from right to left accross the keyboard to "backspace" Sep 18 21:01:23 thanks, ivho. Sep 18 21:01:24 pavelm: if you want, there is a config file under /opt/Qtopia/etc/.... don't rememeber called Storage.conf... change parameter here Sep 18 21:01:34 anybody got a working alsa config? Sep 18 21:01:34 ivho: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 18 21:02:15 Babel: thanks Sep 18 21:03:29 Babel: what would you set there? Applications/documents/content database = 0? Sep 18 21:04:29 pavelm: yes, this want and there is something related to your document directories you want to browse ... Sep 18 21:05:08 maybe it should be better to have index running in background at lower priority Sep 18 21:06:04 Babel: indexing makes no sense at debian / filesystem. Sep 18 21:08:18 pavelm_away: yes agree, but with a clean instal and day to day use you start with empty sd ;), look at windows mobile Sep 18 21:08:26 always empty, lol Sep 18 21:13:39 hi all Sep 18 21:14:04 how do i email someone at @openmoko.com? Sep 18 21:14:05 skwashd: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 18 21:14:46 i have been trying to email contact@openmoko.com and everytime after a week it bounces Sep 18 21:15:10 mickey|openexpo: hey :) Sep 18 21:15:20 inquiries@rt.internal.openmoko.org Sep 18 21:15:20 (ultimately generated from contact@openmoko.com) Sep 18 21:15:20 SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: Sep 18 21:15:20 host varaha.openmoko.org [88.198.93.220]: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout: Sep 18 21:15:30 whoops ... i thought that was only 3 lines Sep 18 21:15:44 where can I find a terminal in qtopia? Sep 18 21:15:57 C7 : do you made and expo in france one day ? Sep 18 21:16:08 heikkit, I ssh'd in fwiw Sep 18 21:16:32 Babel: would be easier for some french guy/gal i thing ;) Sep 18 21:16:44 s/thing/think/ Sep 18 21:16:44 C7 meant: Babel: would be easier for some french guy/gal i think ;) Sep 18 21:17:14 henla464: no terminal, but you can devel one ;) or use ssh Sep 18 21:17:16 but as i speak french too i would help out if i had time.. Sep 18 21:17:31 Babel: ok, ssh it is Sep 18 21:17:40 hi C7. just a quick question before i run out of power (forgot that you swiss guys have different AC sockets *sigh* ;)... when should i appear tomorrow? Sep 18 21:18:06 C7 ok i m just curious to discuss and really show fic in my hand, maybe i buy last generation in and of the year Sep 18 21:20:24 mickey|openexpo: i will be there around 8:00 but 9:00 will do. as you want Sep 18 21:21:14 mickey|openexpo: do you want me to bring some cables for you? Sep 18 21:21:47 C7: oh ya, that would be good. Sep 18 21:21:50 forgot my travel adapter :/ Sep 18 21:22:02 btw., is there somewhere to buy breakfast @ the venue? or should i get it beforehand? Sep 18 21:22:44 mickey|openexpo: i hope so .. but if not .. you can get some brakfast nearby Sep 18 21:22:46 mickey|openexpo: NOTE: package poppler-0.6-r0: task do_configure: started Sep 18 21:22:56 C7: ok, cool Sep 18 21:23:08 XorA: *crossing fingers* Sep 18 21:23:26 mickey|openexpo: is it epdf that needs the new stuff? Sep 18 21:23:32 XorA: can you try to build epdf afterwards? it uses poppler's new stuff Sep 18 21:23:33 heh Sep 18 21:23:46 mickey|openexpo: what do want for cables? will standard "gerätekabel" do the trick? Sep 18 21:23:53 mickey|openexpo: Ill test epdf and epdfview which are the two essential ones Sep 18 21:24:40 mickey|openexpo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/a/a2/Openexpo-flyer-draft.png Sep 18 21:25:17 C7: i have a thinkpad x60s which has this AC adapter that needs a small 3 pole plug (not an EU Kaltgerätestecker, smaller) Sep 18 21:26:00 C7: if all fails, i just buy something. you probably have something like that in supermarkets? :) Sep 18 21:26:53 so, I feel kind of stupid asking Sep 18 21:27:13 But I ordered a Neo1973 when orders started being accepted in July Sep 18 21:27:22 And I haven't received it yet Sep 18 21:27:42 None of my emails to orders@openmoko.com have been replied to Sep 18 21:28:29 mickey|openexpo: hope so.. but usually you will get them the other way round.. Sep 18 21:28:31 evanpro, have you been charged? Sep 18 21:28:38 hmmm Sep 18 21:28:42 I'm pretty sure I have Sep 18 21:28:43 evanpro: do you even know if they get the emails? i tried emailing them myself and it bounced Sep 18 21:28:47 C7: nice! two things: 1) in the last sentence, there is a missing space and a bogus - in voran-zubringen. 2nd) it might be good to state something like "Die Plattform integriert dabei Komponenten wie X11, Gtk+, <...>" to prevent people from guessing what's included? Sep 18 21:28:51 evanpro, that would be very important to check Sep 18 21:28:56 yep Sep 18 21:29:07 So, there are plenty of people who _have_ received their phones, right? Sep 18 21:29:22 mickey|openexpo: 1) already fixed.. 2) hmm Sep 18 21:29:29 evanpro, yes Sep 18 21:29:43 SpeedEvil: ok, so the BL-5C battery is now quite warm to the touch, but the voltage (as reported by the neo) isnt increasing greatly Sep 18 21:29:44 evanpro, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_owners Sep 18 21:29:54 C7: then again, it might be not relevant anyways. since the actual platform ingredients may change ;) Sep 18 21:30:09 mickey|openexpo: true Sep 18 21:30:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners sorry Sep 18 21:30:23 SpeedEvil: if it is working, it's not working very well i guess Sep 18 21:31:27 mickey|openexpo: ok. ill print it like this then.. and for your plug prblem.. i found some uneversal notebook power adaptor thingy .. we can just hope it fits Sep 18 21:31:32 cw666: what's the voltage? Sep 18 21:31:39 It should stick at 4.2 Sep 18 21:31:49 C7: excellent. thanks. good work on the paper! Sep 18 21:31:57 ok, power almost out Sep 18 21:32:03 going to sleep anyways Sep 18 21:32:06 c'ya tomorrow! Sep 18 21:32:13 mickey|openexpo: thanks .. c'ya Sep 18 21:33:39 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ Sep 18 21:33:49 SpeedEvil: 3679 Sep 18 21:33:56 OK, it looks like I got a request for confirmation in August and I never responded Sep 18 21:34:01 So that might be what the problem is Sep 18 21:34:05 3.6 is about 10% charged Sep 18 21:34:20 evanpro :( Sep 18 21:34:26 SpeedEvil: battery could also be bad, it's something very old i had floating about Sep 18 21:34:47 It may simply be not charging it at all. Sep 18 21:34:47 SpeedEvil: i have some more somewhere else, i think i was planning on overcharging them for shits so i might have split them open Sep 18 21:35:03 Is it going up or down? Sep 18 21:35:04 SpeedEvil: well, it's warm... presumably something is going on Sep 18 21:35:10 is anyone else here building mplayer for their images ? Sep 18 21:35:11 SpeedEvil: slowly down Sep 18 21:35:33 SpeedEvil: actually, it just went up ... there is enough noise id have to look at this for longer to be sure Sep 18 21:35:33 probably simply discharging. It will get warm when it does that. Sep 18 21:35:39 Yeah Sep 18 21:35:47 the battery will often get warm. Sep 18 21:35:50 polz: not for images, but Im the mplayer maintainer around here Sep 18 21:35:58 Hot enough that it's uncumfortable to touch is bad. Sep 18 21:36:03 XorA, Have you tried the Qtopia stuff? Sep 18 21:36:13 paulproteus: no Sep 18 21:37:14 XorA: so... if I'm getting some missing libsdl dependancies, that's a problem with my particular build, right ? Sep 18 21:37:14 XorA, Do you have any plans/interest in doing so, out of curiosity? Sep 18 21:37:24 paulproteus: i just installed it here Sep 18 21:37:39 cw666, It's nice, but I can't figure out how to enter "." on the on-screen keyboard. Sep 18 21:37:55 polz: yes, it works here Sep 18 21:38:21 polz: though I havent tried it inside openmoko distro for a while, maybe a distro config problem Sep 18 21:38:29 polz: can you pastebin the error Sep 18 21:39:02 paulproteus: Ill probably flash it on BV3 at some point just to see it, this is a very random question :-D Sep 18 21:40:07 paulproteus: dont see how to either Sep 18 21:40:33 XorA: I'll try rebuilding the package first Sep 18 21:40:37 cw666: you found stroke up to go into symbols mode? Sep 18 21:40:53 Stroke up, eh? Sep 18 21:41:00 XorA: i never tried :-) Sep 18 21:41:07 XorA: i just installed it and verified it made calls Sep 18 21:41:10 stroke up is shift, right is space, left is delete Sep 18 21:41:44 XorA: yeah, i see that... not bad, but not really usable w/o a stylus Sep 18 21:41:55 Or a sharp fingernail. Sep 18 21:42:02 I'm half joking. (-: Sep 18 21:42:10 * XorA hasnt installed yet so havent seen it for real Sep 18 21:42:30 paulproteus: get plastic surgery remove skin from thumb and sharpen bone to points Sep 18 21:42:40 XorA: given it's only a few minutes to download and install ... and so far it works *very* well it's really not bad at all Sep 18 21:42:45 ♪ I stroke it to the east and I stroke it to the west ... ♪ Sep 18 21:43:10 cw666: well I hope the Qtopia Phone and Openmoko can exist in harmonious competition Sep 18 21:43:54 XorA: if nothing else it does show the hw is cabale of working usefully and the UI doesnt have to be slow and lethargic Sep 18 21:44:01 so in that respect it's really quite wonderful Sep 18 21:44:16 cw666: yes, its a bar to aim at Sep 18 21:44:34 cw666: Trolltech always did nice work with Qtopia, its just I live in an X world Sep 18 21:44:47 XorA: naah, there's going to be a WAR with blood-thirsty trolls ripping off heads and using human teeth as ornaments :P Sep 18 21:45:01 I would like X too. (-: Sep 18 21:45:01 but I want ornaments! Sep 18 21:45:24 XorA: i dont see any fundamental reason they couldn't use kdrive and support other apps actually Sep 18 21:45:51 XorA: it would require porting some low-level qtopia stuff to kdrive/x --- but with accel X in the new hardware they might be planning this anyhow Sep 18 21:48:10 polz: its more likely to be a war where we sit around a table and drink teo, ljp didnt seem to be that threatening at FOSDEM :-) Sep 18 21:48:38 cw666: older Qtopia could run on X, I doubt they took that out Sep 18 21:49:03 i am not threatening at all Sep 18 21:49:31 most the time Sep 18 21:49:35 XorA: the current "preview" of qtopia for the neo looks like a evil hack :) Sep 18 21:49:56 thomasg: give them a chance, they spun it up pretty quick :-) Sep 18 21:50:03 XorA: tea.. with Po ? Sep 18 21:50:18 XorA: erm, I think qtopia phone edition is on this state at least for 5 month, isn't it? Sep 18 21:50:33 (for their own prototype, the greenphone) Sep 18 21:50:53 $700 for greenphone, makes neo1973 price look better. :) Sep 18 21:50:54 thomasg: i dunno, it isn't at all bad... sure, some things clearly need work, but it's pretty usable for a first release Sep 18 21:51:16 TT is still working on Qtopia for touchscreen only devices like the neo Sep 18 21:51:28 thomasg: I only saw OE greenphone for 10 mins or so Sep 18 21:51:32 cw666: well, I never doubted it would run on the neo with some little changes (gsm communication and so on) Sep 18 21:52:01 How's openmoko coming along? Sep 18 21:52:06 but at moment it's not "qtopia", it's the qtopia gui on openmoko, nothing more. Sep 18 21:52:31 I checked the wiki and it says its not gonna be ready til December now Sep 18 21:52:38 when did that happen? Sep 18 21:53:07 Basically due to timelines that seem impossible to meet for an october release. Sep 18 21:53:09 gradually? :) Sep 18 21:53:15 There have been no official annoucements. Sep 18 21:53:17 thomasg: tbqh, for lack of anything else, if the qtopia stuff makes progress i would consider using it until something better comes along Sep 18 21:53:46 cw666: what sort of progress are you looking for? Sep 18 21:53:55 Are the current GTA01s usable as a plain-old-phone yet? Sep 18 21:54:03 No. Sep 18 21:54:08 damn Sep 18 21:54:23 No es bueno Sep 18 21:54:25 ljp: right now, i can use a preview of qtopia on the neo as a phone Sep 18 21:54:35 ljp: i can't with *any* version of OE/OM w/o poking about Sep 18 21:54:49 cw666: you are right Sep 18 21:55:30 so basic dialing and speaking are not implemented yet? Sep 18 21:55:37 but this is a development release. as you see, you can't use qtopia, not even it's sdk for development on the neo. Sep 18 21:55:40 dtx: it's not entirely reliable for a lot of people Sep 18 21:55:59 thomasg: i can download their sdk right now and screw with it Sep 18 21:56:16 hmmmm Sep 18 21:56:20 ah, the noise after a software release. :) Sep 18 21:56:32 cw666: you can. but as you are seeing, even the trolltech guys are using openmoko, not qtopia :) Sep 18 21:56:53 the use the qtopia gui on the framebuffer that's coming with the standard-openmoko/openembedded install Sep 18 21:56:57 *they Sep 18 21:57:00 thank you trolltech. now save us from your cult^Wusers. :) Sep 18 21:57:01 thomasg: so what? Sep 18 21:57:21 Man I can't wait for this phone Sep 18 21:57:42 somebody invent the time machine so I don't have to wait for people to finish inventing the needed components :-P Sep 18 21:58:08 dtx: right now it's still usable w/ some effort as a toy Sep 18 21:58:26 dtx: i've used it to plot me walking about the city which is sorta cute (IMO) Sep 18 21:58:52 qtopia is very usable right now Sep 18 21:59:35 juri_: i think people are happy to see hardware doing things they haven't before; this is a good thing Sep 18 22:00:59 A friend is looking for a small linux box like the nslu2 (No fan, usb, 100MBit ethernet, nothing more). Does anyone know comparable alternatives? Sep 18 22:01:41 Elrond: fanless? what arch? Sep 18 22:02:05 cw666 - I guess, he doesn't care on the arch. Sep 18 22:02:14 if i let the neo sit for a long time, will it eventually be unable to charge? Sep 18 22:02:21 Elrond: get a geode nx1750 mobo + cpu for $80 or so, add some cheap DDR ram and a disk Sep 18 22:02:24 use a large heatsink Sep 18 22:02:42 orzo: yes and no, i can drain itself to the point it's hard to charge again Sep 18 22:03:08 Elrond: george nx1750 is a low-power k7 core, 1.4GHz iirc Sep 18 22:03:28 cw666 - Weee, that's fast. Sep 18 22:03:39 Elrond: you can buy an entire machine, case, speakers, etc. for $150 Sep 18 22:03:45 well, but it's eating much power Sep 18 22:04:02 Elrond: though that means a loud fan, silencing that will cost you a little more Sep 18 22:04:15 thomasg: much power? Sep 18 22:04:25 cw666: compared to a nlsu and via machines, yes Sep 18 22:04:39 slug! Sep 18 22:04:39 thomasg: is uses less than a VIA machine Sep 18 22:04:47 thomasg: VIA cpus are NOT that great, i have a couple here Sep 18 22:05:24 thomasg: the cpu can drop to about 6W or so in high P-states, to with powersaved the entire system would probably be under 10W with disk(s) spun down Sep 18 22:05:35 s/high/higher/ Sep 18 22:05:35 cw666 meant: thomasg: the cpu can drop to about 6W or so in higher P-states, to with powersaved the entire system would probably be under 10W with disk(s) spun down Sep 18 22:05:46 cw666: iirc the chipsets aren't ever unter 10W Sep 18 22:05:56 *under Sep 18 22:06:12 the chipset w/o cpu, ram and hd's Sep 18 22:06:13 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:General-purpose_buttons_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Square_case]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Removal_of_free_space]] and other changes Sep 18 22:06:23 pico-itx board claims some super low numbers Sep 18 22:06:38 thomasg: the chipset most commonly uses if from SiS, it's got no heatsink and is cool to the touch Sep 18 22:06:41 there is no way it's using 10W Sep 18 22:07:42 So the alternative to an nslu2 is "create your own from parts"? Sep 18 22:07:52 I wonder why there aren't more extensible arm-based machines on the market :( Sep 18 22:08:15 thomasg: it's hard to beat x86/PC-centric volumes Sep 18 22:08:16 because it's not x86 Sep 18 22:08:20 -> little mass market Sep 18 22:08:25 which is sad, because most of the cheap x86 stuff really is crap Sep 18 22:08:26 yeah, what a pitty :( Sep 18 22:08:42 thomasg: i have some 400MHz MIPS stuff here than is about 6W Sep 18 22:09:07 arm is mostly pretty poor for fp stuff Sep 18 22:09:22 yeah, but many people dont need a lot of fp Sep 18 22:09:27 anrp: its a whole lot better with arm11 Sep 18 22:09:33 -msoft-float is fine for a lot of things Sep 18 22:09:34 Nobody needs fp in something like a slug. Sep 18 22:09:48 nobody needs more than 640k Sep 18 22:09:53 but what about a neo D: Sep 18 22:10:18 XorA - ;o) Sep 18 22:10:45 most people dont do much fp Sep 18 22:10:54 not even your quad-core workstation users, not really Sep 18 22:10:59 Except for cairo. ;o) Sep 18 22:11:02 sure, some do, and some use a LOT, but many dont Sep 18 22:11:05 games Sep 18 22:12:00 Actually... that qtopia stuff is quite good.. except that I can't write. Sep 18 22:12:16 ...it uses some kind of evil dictionary that prevents me from typing pretty much anything. Sep 18 22:12:32 how do you type space? I did it once... by mistake :-( Sep 18 22:12:39 is there way to type symbols? Sep 18 22:12:54 pavelm - Hi! Sep 18 22:13:47 pavelm, join #qtopia if you like Sep 18 22:14:06 Hi, Elrond! Sep 18 22:14:11 Actually, I probably should do that. Sep 18 22:14:15 pavelm: right stroke is space Sep 18 22:14:29 pavelm: left stroke is delete, up stroke is shift Sep 18 22:14:35 pavelm: stop upsetting the OMFGITSNOTOPENMOKO people Sep 18 22:15:01 xora: tell me combination for symbols and I'm happy :). Sep 18 22:15:12 pavelm: up stroke I beleice Sep 18 22:15:20 pavelm: I dont have qtopia installed Sep 18 22:15:21 I'd suggest #neo1973 Sep 18 22:15:40 SpeedEvil: unless the S/N gets a lot worse i dont see why this should be split over 2-3 channels Sep 18 22:15:51 there is a lot of common ground still Sep 18 22:16:00 If it's getting bad. Sep 18 22:16:05 kernel, pm, alsa, etc Sep 18 22:16:06 I don't think it's that bad yet Sep 18 22:17:05 one channel per function Sep 18 22:17:24 thats the unix-way :) Sep 18 22:18:44 right now it feels more like a few OE/OM fanboys have had their manlyhood threatened by qtopia and are crying about it Sep 18 22:21:26 cw666 the only one crying around here atm is you Sep 18 22:27:34 hi all Sep 18 22:27:49 a quick and simply information Sep 18 22:28:04 guys, my neo hangs in half of progress while booting, I should do flashing but I want to copy my config files - is there a way to mount Neo's file system to PC? Propably while in uboot. Sep 18 22:28:47 is possible to run applications as MaemoApps on OpenMoko? Or, will be possible in the future development? Sep 18 22:30:53 thanks, everyone! Sep 18 22:37:57 Fradeve: those are java apps? so yeah Sep 18 22:38:27 * Kero learns... and unblocked his SIM... funky that +CPIN did not work, but +CFUN=1 requested PUK + PIN did... Sep 18 22:40:03 Kero: about that PIN Sep 18 22:40:26 you should first execute AT+CPIN? Sep 18 22:40:34 and then AT+CPIN="mypin" Sep 18 22:40:35 zdanek: oh, I did... Sep 18 22:40:45 but why the quotes? Sep 18 22:41:06 oh, maemo apps are not java. there is a cross-compiler: scratchbox Sep 18 22:41:18 because of AT protocol? I don't know but I always do otherwise doesn't work Sep 18 22:41:19 besides, it needs AT+CPIN=puk,newpin is that "puk","newpin" or "puk,newpin" ? Sep 18 22:41:37 I don't know Sep 18 22:41:49 I say what to do when your card is not blocked Sep 18 22:41:58 refer to AT commands PDF in the net Sep 18 22:42:03 there's plenty of it Sep 18 22:42:07 only thing I get is cme3, operation not allowed (whatever that means) Sep 18 22:42:13 Kero: on TI modem we have AT+CFUN=1 then AT+CPIN="xxxx" Sep 18 22:42:22 yep Sep 18 22:42:36 put it in ordinary phone to unblock it with PUK Sep 18 22:42:45 then use with neo, as Babel wrote Sep 18 22:42:53 zdanek: there's the catch, that phone just said "blocked" Sep 18 22:43:12 (ooooooold motorola timeport) Sep 18 22:43:44 dkr: you say yeah because all java apps run on OpenMoko? Sep 18 22:43:51 but hey, I'm confident I can work around SIM issues now. Sep 18 22:44:05 Kero: don't you have any other phone to unlock sim? Sep 18 22:44:22 zdanek: I bought a Neo to replace that moto Sep 18 22:44:26 eventually Sep 18 22:44:27 Fradeve: yes, bu i ersearched it an i see maemo uses X/d-bus/gtk+ all very similar to openmoko, so looks like running those apps on opnemoko should be easy Sep 18 22:45:21 dkr: the main question is: I'm cooperating with the project Open Street Map (openstreetmap.org) Sep 18 22:45:39 dkr: and we use some java applications to map roads Sep 18 22:45:58 there is at the moment no java app Sep 18 22:46:08 to run java stuff. Sep 18 22:46:14 dkr: for this kind of use, a killer-application is MaemoMapper, wich uses also gpsd Sep 18 22:46:24 zdanek: main point is, I'm confdent now I can mess with my SIM. Sep 18 22:46:27 and fix it Sep 18 22:46:33 dkr: gpsd is also included in OpenMoko, IMHO Sep 18 22:46:39 SpeedEvil: is it possible to have phoneme ? i never manage to compile it :( Sep 18 22:46:55 I have not got a working environment setup Sep 18 22:46:59 so, next issue, is gsmd or libgsmd or something already emitting dbus signals ? Sep 18 22:47:16 dkr: so I want to know if I will use OpenMoko (also in future points of development) to contribute on OSM Sep 18 22:47:31 At the moment I'm using my Neo to map. Sep 18 22:47:35 But only as a GPS Sep 18 22:47:41 logging GPS Sep 18 22:48:19 SpeedEvil: could be more clear? You take logs of your gps routes? Sep 18 22:48:55 take GPS NMEA data from the route. Sep 18 22:49:02 gpsbabel -> JOSM Sep 18 22:49:08 uauu Sep 18 22:49:18 Kero: search for AT commands spec. and use PUK Sep 18 22:49:38 so, the principle is that OpenMoko and Neo1937 is compatible with the OSM project, yaeh? Sep 18 22:49:44 Well - no. Sep 18 22:49:51 okay, goodnight everyone Sep 18 22:49:55 You can use it for whatever you want Sep 18 22:50:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap Sep 18 22:50:20 zdanek: got that, already managed to unblock w/ Neo. moto is happily connected again. Sep 18 22:50:22 there are hopes that nice relevant software will get written or ported Sep 18 22:50:39 but it's not likely any time soon that the actual OM team will make them. Sep 18 22:50:53 Because they are working on more basic and important stuff. Sep 18 22:50:54 zdanek: slightly surprised there's +CPIN to enter PUK, but no +CPUK Sep 18 22:51:09 SpeedEvil: ahhh ok, comprensible Sep 18 22:51:13 yep, AT comands are weird Sep 18 22:51:14 fradeve like being able to make calls work reliablt Sep 18 22:51:17 gdnite Sep 18 22:52:10 SpeedEvil: you were talking about GPS NMEA data --> gpsbabel --> JOSM Sep 18 22:52:24 yes. Sep 18 22:52:25 SpeedEvil: could be more clear about this? Sep 18 22:52:50 or perhaps I should rephrase my Q, is there already a GUI(?) app that can answer incoming calls? Sep 18 22:53:27 Fradeve: the GPS binary thingy on the neo acts like a serial GPS. You then capture this to a file. This is then a log in NMEA format like you'd get from any serial GPS. You then run through the tool 'gpsbabel' which outputs gpx files. You can themn load it into JOSM Sep 18 22:53:39 Fradeve or upload the track to the server, or both Sep 18 22:54:02 Fradeve: running JOSM on the desktop. Sep 18 22:54:56 yeah, I know both JOSM and gpsbabel, but not the GPS NMEA --- so, actually, is possible to use OM to contribute with OSM Sep 18 22:55:32 NMEA is the same format all other GPSs output (prettymuch) Sep 18 22:55:36 the thing wich we need is a killer-app for many particular notes or to organize the work on the map, no? Sep 18 22:56:02 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap Sep 18 22:56:05 and the linked pages Sep 18 22:56:19 bluetooth voice note logging is especially interesting Sep 18 22:56:59 yes... I'm reading ;) Thank for your precious explanations :D Sep 18 23:11:59 has anyone tried running dosbox on the neo yet ? Sep 18 23:13:03 Anyone got the audio working correctly in the new qtopia image ? Sep 18 23:16:06 whats wrong with it? Sep 18 23:25:15 hello Sep 18 23:43:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 18 23:43:26 these screenshots are killer... Sep 18 23:45:02 good night Sep 18 23:52:54 so are apps being built now with qt for the openmoko? Sep 18 23:53:17 No. Sep 18 23:53:19 they are probally still using gnome as the main toolkit.. Sep 18 23:53:31 QT has been ported to the Neo. Sep 18 23:53:40 OM is still OM, and QT is still QT Sep 18 23:54:01 right but qt will run on om? Sep 18 23:54:09 No. Sep 18 23:54:14 QT runs on the Neo1973 Sep 18 23:54:25 Which is the physical phone Sep 18 23:58:35 Does OpenMoko work with CDMA and GSM? Sep 18 23:58:35 obnauticus: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 18 23:58:48 obnauticus no cdma Sep 18 23:58:52 DAMN! Sep 18 23:58:56 Will it in the future? Sep 18 23:59:07 maybe Sep 18 23:59:13 not this year or most of next Sep 18 23:59:15 at least Sep 18 23:59:17 probably Sep 18 23:59:35 is it being considored? Sep 18 23:59:38 CDMA is only really viable once the main version has sold lots Sep 18 23:59:49 Ya, good point. Sep 18 23:59:55 it's expensive, and there are technical and contractual limitations. Sep 19 00:00:01 CDMA is? Sep 19 00:00:09 i can see how that would work. Sep 19 00:00:19 yes - you can only make a CDMA phone with the permission of hte network basically Sep 19 00:00:20 GSM is last I looked more than 80% of the market share Sep 19 00:00:31 and CDMA carriers don't want open phones anyway Sep 19 00:00:35 I know. Sep 19 00:00:36 with GSM, you can put your SIM in any phone. Sep 19 00:00:37 I hate it. Sep 19 00:00:39 see Verizon vs. FCC Sep 19 00:00:47 I have sprint. Sep 19 00:00:49 Most GSM carriers don't want open phones. Sep 19 00:00:50 and I hate it. Sep 19 00:01:00 They're just stuck with it. Sep 19 00:01:00 Why don't cell providers want open phones? Sep 19 00:01:05 Profit! Sep 19 00:01:11 Lock the user to your network only Sep 19 00:01:15 that's so stupid... Sep 19 00:01:18 sell them services expensively Sep 19 00:01:19 Well i understand that part of it Sep 19 00:01:23 it just makes it like... Sep 19 00:01:29 if y ou can't compete on quality of service you compete with brainwashing and monopolistic practises Sep 19 00:01:46 well Sep 19 00:01:57 can you hear me now? who would even ask the question in the real GSM world Sep 19 00:02:01 Is all the info of the OpenMoko freed? Sep 19 00:02:09 like i understand what that means Sep 19 00:02:15 but can i use ANY gsm with any provider anywhere Sep 19 00:02:18 no locks or anything.. Sep 19 00:02:21 any sim card* Sep 19 00:02:25 OpenMoko is the linux open-source project Sep 19 00:02:33 WEll, you could just say it's not gay.. Sep 19 00:02:36 that would cover all basis :P Sep 19 00:02:37 The Neo1973 is not sim-locked, no. Sep 19 00:02:38 obnauticus, if it's a gsm compatible with openmoko, then sure. Sep 19 00:02:40 The Neo1973 is the unlocked GSM phone which it's fiurst implemented on. Sep 19 00:02:41 obnauticus: just about anywhere - a very few black networks Sep 19 00:02:44 obnauticus, no sim-locks. Sep 19 00:02:48 Okay. Sep 19 00:02:55 Other than bug 666. Sep 19 00:02:57 obnauticus: mine's gay. But it works wonderfully. Sep 19 00:03:06 That's too bad i would have to pay for service from an other provider (ie. AT&T) Sep 19 00:03:10 (problems with some 3G SIMs) Sep 19 00:03:16 Writchie: with a gsm sim, how can there be any black networks? Sep 19 00:03:37 obnauticus: tmobile is gsm too Sep 19 00:03:40 the carriers still have the ability to reject the IMEI Sep 19 00:03:47 a couplel do Sep 19 00:04:05 Some blacklist non 3G phones Sep 19 00:04:20 oh... so wouldn't want them anyway Sep 19 00:04:23 as they have a 3G network, but use others networks for 2G Sep 19 00:04:34 the argument can be for example, that half rate codec not supported by model x Sep 19 00:04:40 so it costs them significantly if your phone can't use it at all. Sep 19 00:04:55 AT&T would love to do this and may in the future Sep 19 00:05:11 the only thing keeping AT&T/Cingular at bay is t-mobile Sep 19 00:05:22 Indeed. Sep 19 00:05:26 '3' in the UK have even supplied phones with glued-in SIMs Sep 19 00:05:40 Though that was PAYG handsets sold at a considerable loss. Sep 19 00:06:05 an unlocked gsm phone with wifi is going to really cut into these cell providers profits --> voip Sep 19 00:06:09 3G/video-calling for 40 quid IIRC Sep 19 00:06:14 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] Sep 19 00:06:22 manyoso: no really Sep 19 00:06:27 s/no/not/ Sep 19 00:06:28 Writchie meant: manyoso: not really Sep 19 00:06:49 a GSM network operator is selling mobility Sep 19 00:07:01 actually ubiquitous mobility Sep 19 00:07:08 why not? at&t won't like it. Sep 19 00:07:17 no need to use minutes Sep 19 00:07:32 the carriers don't want night time free calls killing the network Sep 19 00:07:42 tmobile recently made this work on a special plan Sep 19 00:07:46 there is no capacity to support the schemes they have dreamed up Sep 19 00:08:04 yah, but if they had the capacity you can be sure they wouldn't like it Sep 19 00:08:05 they would rather offload the network with UMA at home Sep 19 00:08:31 If revenue goes down this may not be bad for the mobile company. Sep 19 00:08:37 If costs go down further Sep 19 00:08:43 data i've seen has US average users at 800 minutes per month. Sep 19 00:08:46 that's what some hope that UMA will do. Sep 19 00:08:47 UMA requires support from the cell provider, right? it isn't a service that someone unrealted to your cell provider can offer? Sep 19 00:08:55 yes Lynet. Sep 19 00:08:56 s/unrealted/unrelated Sep 19 00:09:06 It's basically a GSM tower on your phones network. Sep 19 00:09:11 UMA needs support from operator and phone Sep 19 00:09:23 it's actually quite slick Sep 19 00:09:23 But the GSM tower is really connected via wifi, not GSM Sep 19 00:09:44 Writchie: Is it actually implemented in real world? I know Nokia did a trial. Sep 19 00:09:55 but good performance requires end to end QoS between your homebroadband and the operator Sep 19 00:10:07 Lynet: t-mobile is in operation with it today in the US Sep 19 00:10:41 Lynet: it requires a UMA phone and there are only two I know of Sep 19 00:11:11 Lynet: UMA spec requires Bluetooth Class 1 plus WiFi. Sep 19 00:11:26 Why BT? Sep 19 00:12:24 It also requires support in the GSM modem. Sep 19 00:12:36 So it's unlikely to ever work on the neo seamlessly Sep 19 00:12:43 As I understand it Sep 19 00:13:05 morning Sep 19 00:13:06 question.. Sep 19 00:13:11 hrm, wardriving GAN/UMA. fun Sep 19 00:13:14 how do I change the boot splash screens? Sep 19 00:13:14 answer. Sep 19 00:13:19 :P Sep 19 00:13:24 Ok, so it is a 'virtual cell tower' over 802.11/BT/IP? Sep 19 00:13:58 Never mind, found wikipedia article. ;-) Sep 19 00:14:07 Lynet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network Sep 19 00:14:13 * hozer missed something here Sep 19 00:16:15 hozer: Might wanna check out the uBoot docs/wiki and see how splash screens are created/handled - updating it via dfu-util should be straightforward Sep 19 00:18:08 what does the splash after the kernel boots? usplash? Sep 19 00:19:40 No idea, sorry Sep 19 00:20:30 * rwhitby flashes the qtopia image he downloaded late last night onto the bv3 to see what all the fuss is about ... Sep 19 00:20:37 how are the 100MB and 500MB version of wikipedia stripped down for mokopedia? by article popularity? or just grabs first paragraph of each article? Sep 19 00:21:32 In the future will other features such as multi SIM and other stuff be supported Sep 19 00:21:46 that would be cool if you could put all your sim cards into one phone and select which network you want to auth on Sep 19 00:22:06 That might take support in the GSM modem Sep 19 00:22:19 Which is not the most open hardware on the market. (just a very separate (serial)) interface to use it.) Sep 19 00:23:04 Well I would love an openmoko if it had everything, but everything can have anything Sep 19 00:23:06 lol. Sep 19 00:23:10 I honor the concept though :/ Sep 19 00:23:48 wtf? bwahaha Sep 19 00:24:00 qt-x11-free vulnerability Sep 19 00:24:01 CVE-2007-4137 Sep 19 00:24:05 what a timing Sep 19 00:24:12 Hah, nice Sep 19 00:24:51 obnauticus will not happen. you only can book in one simcard per modem. Sep 19 00:24:51 obnauticus: search for 'Dual Sim' on the wiki Sep 19 00:25:03 roh: you sure? Sep 19 00:25:12 hozer yes. Sep 19 00:25:27 two dual-sim vendors I found claim you can select the sim you want from a phone menu Sep 19 00:25:42 hozer i only know of one phone which has 2 slots and can book in 2 cards and it has 2 radios (and eats batterys like hell) Sep 19 00:25:46 i've missed out on about a month of openmoko devel Sep 19 00:26:02 any nice progress? Sep 19 00:26:07 heh Sep 19 00:26:14 the dual-sim adapters which work by putting 2 sims into one adapter which then goes into the phone only enable you to choose which one is booked in Sep 19 00:26:14 roh: this company also claims to have a SIM reader that can put up to 16 sims onto a single card Sep 19 00:26:43 I get this error while doing an ext2ls mmc 0 /: bad MBR sector signature 0xf133 Sep 19 00:26:45 roh: yeah, at the very least you could make it all under software control by the neo phone, and just power off then power on the gsm modem to switch Sep 19 00:26:46 any tip? Sep 19 00:26:52 is there a place to donate phones Sep 19 00:27:03 Oh, that's cool Sep 19 00:27:06 hozer not planned atm. Sep 19 00:27:53 * hozer got tired of swapping sims for testing ;) Sep 19 00:28:06 but I haven't gone an bought one yet to try it Sep 19 00:29:20 hozer also that bt-sim-sharing will not happen soon. the simcard reader is only connected to the gsm modem. the only wire to the app--cpu is card detect, so the arm knows if a sim is there Sep 19 00:30:25 how hard would it be to rework an unused GPIO to connect to a sim-sharing thing? Sep 19 00:30:50 .. that is assuming you have someone that can do reworks. Sep 19 00:31:46 Avast! Arrr - m' neo don't boot after flashing ye scurvy dog qtopia image. (today is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day) Sep 19 00:31:46 hozer: And assuming there are unused GPIOs. Sep 19 00:32:33 rofl Sep 19 00:32:43 hozer: IIRC correctly you would have to power just one SIM at time or multiplex some of the pins e.g. with an ASIC. The cards are ISO/IEC 7816-3 standard Sep 19 00:32:55 rwhitby: Works For Me (tm) Sep 19 00:33:02 Writchie: check out one of the dual-sim vendors.. someone's already got the asic Sep 19 00:33:21 any advice for me? I'm trying to boot from SD but the u-boot doesn't seem to read ext2 partitions Sep 19 00:33:38 hozer: its a relatively simple protocol - more an issue of real-estate Sep 19 00:33:44 hozer: just get a pay-as-you-go SIM - $5 on eBay, and no swapping required. Sep 19 00:34:11 I get errors running mmcinit Sep 19 00:35:00 hozer: GSM specs require that ME has ability of initiating warm reset of the SIM card. Sep 19 00:36:51 mwester: I'll af ta take a look with me good eye - I think the nand erase took a broadside to me timbers. Arrr! Sep 19 00:37:36 take care that hook doesn't catch in the jffs2. Sep 19 00:38:03 * mwester notes that it's still September 18th here... Sep 19 00:43:15 mwester: I was comparing carriers :P Sep 19 01:04:28 whats the maximum sized memory card i can fit in my openmoko? Sep 19 01:07:13 recently microSDHC feasibility has been pretty much verified, so currently seems to be 4 GB, with 8 GB models announced to be arriving to market shortly Sep 19 01:08:33 juri_: later kernel is needed for any reliable SD writes Sep 19 01:09:05 (microSDHC spec will support up to 32 GB in future products) Sep 19 01:15:27 * rwhitby boots qtopia - just needed a more recent u-boot on the bv3 for a good rootfs flahs Sep 19 01:16:07 rwhitby: where is the qtopia image located? So far I only found the source code Sep 19 01:17:22 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/ Sep 19 01:19:42 rwhitby: thanks (what's the difference between the "Qtopia flash image" and the "Developer root filesystem"? Sep 19 01:19:44 ) Sep 19 01:20:45 one is a tarball and the other is a jffs2 file Sep 19 01:20:45 jffs2 vs tgz I expect Sep 19 01:21:02 hey ljp Sep 19 01:21:06 hi Sep 19 01:21:42 * rwhitby considers adding a 'flash-neo-qtopia' to MokoMakefile ... Sep 19 01:23:08 rwhitby: I was thinking more of doing a flash-qemu-qtopia by hand to check it out ;-) Sep 19 01:23:39 that's what I meant - a makefile target to download and flash the image Sep 19 01:23:58 rwhitby: -neo- vs -qemu- ;-) Sep 19 01:24:43 ah, yes Sep 19 01:25:04 even better idea, thx. Sep 19 01:25:24 ljp: do you know if the qtopia image runs on the neo1973 qemu? Sep 19 01:25:25 there is an oe overlay in the qtopia sources Sep 19 01:25:33 yes it does Sep 19 01:26:02 as well as a modified openmoko makefile to build qtopia image Sep 19 01:26:24 ljp: a MokoMakefile patch? Sep 19 01:27:06 not really, I replaced -devel- with qtopia and added openmoko-qtopia-image and openmoko-qtopia-task and qtopia-phone .bbs Sep 19 01:27:36 could very easily be made as a patch, but I was in a hurry Sep 19 01:28:14 ljp: is there a plan for pushing those .bb's into OE - then I could add that stuff to mokomakefile Sep 19 01:29:02 no plan as yet, it builds one big ipkg for qtopia. but qtopia can build its own ipkgs as well Sep 19 01:29:13 I'm having a problem with the builds I've made yesterday and today.... It goes through the boot process, but then stays on the boot text screen, does not bring the gui up at all. Sep 19 01:29:29 "This device configuration profile is for the FIC Neo1973. It contains a local overlay for OpenEmbedded build of OpenMoko, using the OpenMoko Makefile written by Rod Whitby , in the [...]" Sep 19 01:29:39 :) Sep 19 01:29:48 rwhitby: devices/ficgta01/README on their source tarball Sep 19 01:30:09 Last line before the shell prompt is: /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off Sep 19 01:30:40 cesarb: that should get me a foot in the door if I ever want to move back to Qld and get a job with Trolltech ;-) Sep 19 01:31:19 ljp: I heard some people complaining about the sound with that qtopia release... Sep 19 01:31:43 rwhitby: you know it, I would also put a good word in for you. we still need someone for the systems group Sep 19 01:32:54 Anyone have any idea why I'm not getting the UI? I did a nand erase of both kernel and rootfs before loading these. Sep 19 01:34:03 urgh, not using the dfu-util symbolic names Sep 19 01:34:18 "sudo dfu-util -a 3 -R -D " <- should be -a kernel to avoid mistakes Sep 19 01:34:34 (on devices/ficgta01/Install.txt) Sep 19 01:34:42 amen to that Sep 19 01:34:48 same for rootfs a couple of lines below Sep 19 01:35:43 What's the maximum size for rootfs? Sep 19 01:36:06 jseghers_: I have the same problem. Sep 19 01:37:45 abraxa: I'm wondering if I'm running out of space... my rootfs (i've added phoneme to it) is currently at 52805632 bytes... Sep 19 01:38:53 so what part of om does qtopia use? Sep 19 01:39:00 the system Sep 19 01:39:10 most things up to X Sep 19 01:39:42 but qt for apps as opposed to gnome? Sep 19 01:40:52 qt for apps, and only qt, which is a bit of a limitation there Sep 19 01:41:23 qt also to control the gsm modem AFAIK Sep 19 01:42:04 abraxa_: I found the memory map... 59MB is allotted to rootfs, so I'm still fine there. Sep 19 01:42:37 jseghers_: /dev/mtdblock4 61.1M 43.0M 18.1M 70% - no problems with space here either Sep 19 01:42:37 Anybody know why the UI won't come up? Sep 19 01:42:51 jseghers_: just type (IIRC) "mtdpart" (or something like that, check out in qemu first), and it'll show the actual partition map Sep 19 01:43:21 cesarb: or look at the web page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QT2410 :) Sep 19 01:43:58 cesarb: I can't access the device by USB networking either... Sep 19 01:43:59 quite interesting way of setting up the audio: 'QString cmd = "/usr/sbin/alsactl -f /etc/alsa/"+m_mode+".state restore";' ;-) Sep 19 01:44:11 jseghers_: on uboot Sep 19 01:44:17 jseghers_: that's a uboot command Sep 19 01:44:32 cesarb: OK. *that* I can do :) Sep 19 01:44:53 jseghers_: and you aren't able to get to the ssh via usb networking? it freezes when the progress bar on the splash image is almost at the end? Sep 19 01:45:02 jseghers_: by which I mean, when starting gsmd? Sep 19 01:46:24 jseghers_: if that's the situation, you have three ways out... Sep 19 01:47:01 jseghers_: (a) try until you get lucky and it doesn't freeze, then edit /etc/init.d/gsmd to either not turn off the modem or turn off flow control before turning off the modem Sep 19 01:47:29 cesarb: It's not getting that far... Sep 19 01:47:39 jseghers_: (b) go into uboot, edit the right environment variable to disable the serial console (no need for saveenv), then proceed as in (a) Sep 19 01:47:40 It stays on the text console Sep 19 01:47:57 jseghers_: hm, what's the last message it gives? Sep 19 01:48:08 Last line before the shell prompt is: /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off Sep 19 01:48:28 jseghers_: erm... I've seen that before... Sep 19 01:48:36 jseghers_: back when I was having trouble with binutils Sep 19 01:48:54 jseghers_: and after fixing that with several other packages Sep 19 01:49:15 cesarb: My prior builds have been working fine. Sep 19 01:49:15 jseghers_: I think my build was so hosed that /sbin/init went missing Sep 19 01:49:38 jseghers_: meaning the kernel was falling back to /bin/sh, which is a bit useless without a keyboard Sep 19 01:50:12 jseghers_: if the last messages before the /bin/sh one are all kernel messages, you probably are missing /sbin/init :P Sep 19 01:50:43 cesarb: indeed. my rootfs /sbin directory has an init.sysvinit, but no other init* Sep 19 01:51:10 OK... time to blow away build/tmp and rebuild from scratch Sep 19 01:51:16 jseghers_: cool, what is the trick to check that? Sep 19 01:51:36 cesarb: I just went to build/tmp/rootfs/sbin :) Sep 19 01:52:14 $ du -s build/tmp/rootfs/ Sep 19 01:52:19 84424 build/tmp/rootfs/ Sep 19 01:52:26 wow, big Sep 19 01:52:53 jseghers_: I have init -> /sbin/init.sysvinit Sep 19 01:52:56 jseghers_: a symlink Sep 19 01:53:34 cesarb: interesting Sep 19 01:53:46 cesarb: any idea what package that's in? Sep 19 01:55:17 looks like it may be the sysvinit package :) Sep 19 01:56:54 where is screen brightness again? Sep 19 01:57:14 cesarb, abraxa_: I'm trying a rebuild of sysvinit to see if it fixes the problem. Sep 19 01:57:54 find /sys -name "*bright*" Sep 19 01:58:33 sprintf(cmd,"echo %d>/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness",b); Sep 19 01:58:40 qtopia seems to think it's this one Sep 19 01:58:52 (custom.cpp) Sep 19 01:58:56 cesarb, abraxa_: it did create the link in rootfs... so now for the download Sep 19 01:59:29 ya screen dimming needs a fix Sep 19 02:00:25 Interestingly, the qtopia source code seems to think ATAND=1,n does something ;-) Sep 19 02:00:29 urgh Sep 19 02:00:32 Interestingly, the qtopia source code seems to think AT%BAND=1,n does something ;-) Sep 19 02:00:45 its supposed to :) Sep 19 02:00:57 ljp: have you actually tried? Sep 19 02:01:16 no, rhys threw that in there Sep 19 02:01:22 ljp: it returns a bogus error value, even if you try to set it to the band it's already using Sep 19 02:01:31 ljp: *always* Sep 19 02:01:39 ljp: no matter what you try Sep 19 02:01:44 ok, good thats one bug i dont have to fix Sep 19 02:02:00 back in a few.. Sep 19 02:02:13 ljp: oh, and the chip also doesn't seem to notice there's a GSM850 network around here (or, in fact, anywhere in the world) Sep 19 02:02:14 neo isnt on my desk right now Sep 19 02:02:39 and the good one is at osim Sep 19 02:02:45 ;( Sep 19 02:02:53 cesarb: I'm apparently seeing the gsmd problem you mentioned but I don't see anything in /etc/init.d/gsmd that would turn off the modem during start-up of the init script Sep 19 02:03:40 abraxa_: [ -n "$GSM_POW" ] && ( echo "0" >$GSM_POW; sleep 1 ) <- this line and lines like this one, except the one which echoes 1 (turns _on_) Sep 19 02:04:09 * Writchie loads qtopia and has working calls, sms's received, sent, and displayed, except no sound (i've seen a workaround for that somewhere) Sep 19 02:04:16 abraxa_: the patch at bug (IIRC) 788 would be better, it does a flow control dance before these lines, and it's the currently accepted solution (in fact, IIRC it was even commited already) Sep 19 02:04:53 cesarb: http://pastebin.ca/702764 is what I'm refering to - nothing of that sort seems to be present there Sep 19 02:04:59 * Writchie can finally demo something other than a bootup Sep 19 02:06:47 Writchie: and the gsm part works every single time? Sep 19 02:07:06 Writchie: comparing what both images do would probably give us some insight... Sep 19 02:07:16 Writchie: that's impressive, I wonder what they've done with the gsm issues Sep 19 02:07:33 Writchie: how do you send an sms in qtopia? Sep 19 02:07:35 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Main_Page]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] Sep 19 02:07:56 ajmitch: I'd guess they simply got lucky that the very different way they do things didn't trigger any bizarre oddities Sep 19 02:08:08 ajmitch: which is why comparing would be very interesting Sep 19 02:09:05 abraxa_: well, that's completely different from the one-week-old one I have... they probably rewrote the whole script Sep 19 02:09:26 rwhitby: cesarb: first SMS message was queue in network and just appeared as soon as the registration completed (with nothing on my part - i.e. like a real phone) Sep 19 02:09:45 there is a message app off the main menu Sep 19 02:10:29 you send SMS through it - I used predictive text and worked fine. The number took a bit to figure out how to get numbers instead of letters, took about a minute of fiddling Sep 19 02:11:12 Writchie: I hope there's a way to disable predictive text... Sep 19 02:11:15 ajmitch: AFAIK they bypass the libgsm/gsmd and just talk to the modem. Sep 19 02:11:26 Writchie: (or at least add a dictionary for your own language) Sep 19 02:11:27 cesarb: I'm sure there is by why? Sep 19 02:12:09 cesarb: have you ever used a proper word predictive text input on phone in portuguese? Sep 19 02:12:12 Writchie: because, if it has only an english dictionary, it would be worse than useless for me ;-) Sep 19 02:12:38 Writchie: yeah. it's slightly worse than simply repeating the keys several times Sep 19 02:12:59 you must be using motorola Sep 19 02:13:03 Writchie: since at least the predictive inputs I've used have an annoying learning function which makes it impossible to type without looking Sep 19 02:13:15 Writchie: exactly! great guess :D (Razr V3 Black) Sep 19 02:13:50 only ezitext works properly - at least when its implemented correctly in the upper layers Sep 19 02:13:55 Writchie: thx - just sent and received SMS Sep 19 02:14:38 cesasrb: I can say that because i wrote ezitext 10 years ago Sep 19 02:15:47 at first blush I like the moko UI a bit better but of course its a couple of years behind Sep 19 02:15:50 Writchie: ezitext is a redlink on wikipedia ;-) Sep 19 02:16:51 cesarb: look under predictive text. Sep 19 02:17:14 however the wiki was written by Eatoni - an almost unknown competitor Sep 19 02:18:32 cesarb: T9 and ZiCorp are the major competitors. Sep 19 02:19:03 Writchie: i've had nothing to do with it since I retired 7 years ago Sep 19 02:20:12 cesarb: Hmm, I see. Well, thanks anyway :) Sep 19 02:21:46 cesarb, abraxa_: rebuilding package sysvinit got the splash screen and the status bar... but instead of continuing into the normal session, it dropped back to the consol Sep 19 02:22:21 hmmm. qtopia not reading all of the SMS messages - Sep 19 02:22:30 hmmm Sep 19 02:22:57 looks like only gsm char set messages Sep 19 02:23:03 ljp: so what's the IRC channel for qtopia rootfs support on the neo1973 device? Sep 19 02:23:09 jseghers_: that's probably because init was not the only breakage Sep 19 02:23:25 jseghers_: you probably got several other broken packages in that build, init was just the most visible one Sep 19 02:23:46 yep, I'm sure you're right. Sep 19 02:23:55 /usr/bin/x-window-manager not found.... Sep 19 02:25:14 One thing I've noticed over the last couple of days is that packages would not build properly (almost all of them were ones that all of a sudden had lots of localle data) and that if I rebuilt the package the build would continue Sep 19 02:25:18 rwhitby: #qtopia Sep 19 02:25:37 almost like the build system wasn't catching everything that had changed. Sep 19 02:25:54 jseghers_: urgh, that's exactly what happened that time init disappeared from my build Sep 19 02:26:11 hence my earlier comment about it being time to nuke build/tmp and do a complete rebuild Sep 19 02:26:28 jseghers_: the binutils breakage left my build half-built for too long, and when I managed to resume I had to hand-rebuild lots and lots of packages (all in vain, as I later found out) Sep 19 02:27:01 cesarb: yeah, I had left an update for about 2 weeks while I solidified my own stuff. Sep 19 02:30:30 I'm reading the stuff about Qtopia and wondering if it might suit my needs a little better, perhaps sidestep some of the churn and get some features that I need (like SMS working)... Sep 19 02:31:22 Does anyone know if phoneme-feature has been incorporated into Qtopia? And if port-directed SMS messages are supported with that? Sep 19 02:31:42 jseghers_: The sound doesn't work in the qtopia build ;-) Sep 19 02:35:01 cesarb: oddly enough, sound I don't really need at the moment ;) Sep 19 02:35:10 when will GTA02 be on sale ? i want to buy a developer version. I am so excited. Sep 19 02:35:10 yulin: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 02:36:36 yulin: I'd recommend you wait for the release of gta02 - which isn't going to happen within the next 4~6 weeks, unfortunately. Sep 19 02:37:26 en. i will wait it. it is my want! Sep 19 02:37:57 It will be a great product. Sep 19 02:39:36 It will be once the software can actually live up to the expectations. Sep 19 02:40:22 a mobile phone with two competing operating environments. welcome to linux. :) Sep 19 02:40:43 i am interesting in linux. Sep 19 02:40:48 and it is my major job. Sep 19 02:41:24 i hope i can contribute for this project and the software's living up. Sep 19 02:41:53 competition is good. look at MS to see what happens when there is little competition Sep 19 02:43:38 actually, i dont care aout the competition i just need some joy and some difference. haha. Sep 19 02:44:47 MS windows cannot affort me, and is so instable. i cannot bear it. Sep 19 02:48:59 cesarb: ...turns out I accidentially flashed a rootfs from August, so the gsmd init script was way outdated. After flashing a recent one and doing the changes you suggested it boots up correctly. Thanks :) Sep 19 02:51:41 "from this place we will deliver to the parlaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness." **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 19 02:59:57 2007