**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:59:57 2007 Sep 20 03:00:22 Casten: "*** No rule to make target `fic-gta01_config'. Stop." - what does your local.conf look like? Sep 20 03:01:16 just has machine, distro and build_arch Sep 20 03:01:39 I guess that last line is required, huh? >< Sep 20 03:01:56 I tried removing it to keep it from rm_all'ing Sep 20 03:02:10 guess that's not the right approach Sep 20 03:02:59 guess I need to put back inherit Sep 20 03:03:29 Not necessarily Sep 20 03:03:49 You might however want to try building uboot-openmoko instead Sep 20 03:03:59 "make build-package-uboot-openmoko" Sep 20 03:04:12 hmm Sep 20 03:05:22 this build process is really something Sep 20 03:05:53 Indeed, though it's bound to get worked out Sep 20 03:06:13 well, in other news, I got Hello World running on my device, that was nice Sep 20 03:06:19 Awesome :) Sep 20 03:06:24 Casten: u-boot doesn't build for fic-gta01, you need to build uboot-openmoko Sep 20 03:06:36 (like abraxa_ said) Sep 20 03:06:50 ok, thanks rwhitby, I'm doing that now Sep 20 03:06:59 Thanks for clearing that up, rwhitby :) Sep 20 03:08:09 yeah, much better, thanks guys, now I can see the source with that rm_work taken out of the conf Sep 20 03:10:49 wow, so shortage of Sep 20 03:11:04 wow, so shortage of #define's in uboot Sep 20 03:11:07 *no Sep 20 03:11:42 its configurable Sep 20 03:12:53 what's everyone's fav irc client? Sep 20 03:13:33 I use X-Chat on laptop and n800, and ptpChat on Treo650, and irssi on NSLU2. Sep 20 03:18:19 Hmm... I wonder if the touchscreen problems I see are only occuring on my device. Sep 20 03:18:46 I can repeatedly hit the touchscreen on the same spot and I will activate controls that are on totally different areas of the screen... Sep 20 03:21:15 This XChat seems much better Sep 20 03:21:30 * cesarb watches as an autom4te.cache scrolls by on the checkout of the openmoko repository... these things shouldn't be in a repository Sep 20 03:31:49 marek: I filed bug 886 with a patch for that segfault Sep 20 04:21:24 so what language should i learn for neo app programming? Sep 20 04:21:51 currently know pascal(delphi) and C (not c++) Sep 20 04:22:20 i was thinking about python Sep 20 04:22:24 but i really dont know Sep 20 04:22:32 Psi: Depends on the environment you'll be using, but C is a good choice for OpenMoko. C++ for Qtopia. And I expect there will be a jvm on the device as well. Sep 20 04:23:17 I don't expect any scripting languages (which is what I consider python to be) will be useful for large applications due to relatively slow CPU and not as much RAM as a desktop. Sep 20 04:23:32 good point Sep 20 04:23:35 JMO - your mileage may vary Sep 20 04:24:22 C it is then Sep 20 04:25:18 all my C experience is from microcontrollers tho, so ill have to learn gui stuff Sep 20 04:29:18 Psi: :) Coding a gui is easy, I've learned. *Designing* a good gui I've found to be considerably more difficult, especially since I have trouble even color-coordinating my clothing! Sep 20 04:29:43 luckily i did two papers on GUI design at uni :) Sep 20 04:38:21 is there some way i can confirm that the phone can at least see the sim card? i have tried a bunch of different sim cards but they all give me 'SIM not inserted' failures Sep 20 04:54:53 moin Sep 20 05:08:44 notuniq, what is giving you that message? Sep 20 05:09:07 i get CME error 10 in the gsm.log Sep 20 05:09:30 http://pastebin.com/m67ca02e7 Sep 20 05:10:44 tried this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Sep 20 05:10:46 Psi: C++ will come in handy, too Sep 20 05:10:51 when i try doing it manually i just get 'ERROR' at AT+CPIN and AT+COPS Sep 20 05:10:58 note, that article has change alot since i last did it Sep 20 05:11:19 hm.. Sep 20 05:11:47 i got ERROR like that when my sim card wasnt in correctly Sep 20 05:12:22 but even when it works i think i still get error on one of them, other says OK and it can make calls/answer fine Sep 20 05:13:20 i haven't been able to get it to acknowledge the sim card or show me any operators at all Sep 20 05:13:49 listing operators with libgsmd-tool shows me "Netreg registration denied" Sep 20 05:14:10 i don't really know enough to figure out how to work out what's going wrong Sep 20 05:14:24 neither do i really Sep 20 05:14:45 once i verified that i could make a call manually i didnt really do anything else with it Sep 20 05:14:59 i got it to call once from the gui, but only once Sep 20 05:15:59 maybe try flashing it back to 2007.1 Sep 20 05:16:16 then try the manual gsm guide Sep 20 05:16:16 Same here, I still can't get gsmd working properly Sep 20 05:16:39 and using the console seems totally dead too Sep 20 05:16:52 i got the same thing when i did manual with 2007.1 Sep 20 05:17:43 CM, have you ever got it to call at all? Sep 20 05:18:50 yes, a few times but only with scaredycats image from sept 3 Sep 20 05:18:57 notuniq, when you type AT+CPIN="...." are you actually typing your pin ? :P Sep 20 05:19:08 yes Sep 20 05:19:33 i put my sim back into my phone and turned the pincode off Sep 20 05:19:41 so i didnt have to Sep 20 05:19:48 maybe you should try that Sep 20 05:20:45 i don't have an unlocked phone to use it with Sep 20 05:20:48 notuniq, if you just type AT do you get OK ? Sep 20 05:21:02 i think so Sep 20 05:21:10 ok, so the modem is actually responding Sep 20 05:21:26 hm.. Sep 20 05:21:56 yeah, i can get it to respond to some AT commands (ones relating to the handset, i think), but i can't seem to get it to respond well to ones relating to the sim card Sep 20 05:22:19 have a look at the simcard port Sep 20 05:22:37 the physical port? Sep 20 05:22:38 just to check the pins didnt get bent or anything while you were inserting the sim Sep 20 05:22:49 okay Sep 20 05:23:45 but i wouldn't start poking around the pins with anything just yet, even if they do look bent Sep 20 05:24:26 you would want to see a pic of the pins on a working neo, just to check they aren't supposed to be that way. Sep 20 05:26:45 you could also try a piece of paper in between the sim and the battery, just in case it isn't making contact. (unlikely tho, since no one else seems to have had that problem) Sep 20 05:28:30 pins seem fine, everything seems to line up Sep 20 05:29:25 then maybe your best bet is to erase/reflash your neo with an image together with someone else whos phone works, and then follow exactly what they do to make a call Sep 20 05:30:16 okay, thanks for your help Sep 20 05:30:29 no problem Sep 20 05:37:16 abraxa_, for you question about touchscreen 2 hours ago, the same thing in qemu, recalibration dosn't change behavior. Sep 20 05:38:16 Any_Key: Oh, really? I would've thought it to be a hardware issue but if it's software then that doesn't sound as bad anymore Sep 20 05:39:32 It was worse, getting better from build to build :-) Sep 20 05:41:21 abraxa_, do you now, is it possible to get touchscreen raw data? Sep 20 05:42:26 Any_Key: ts_print_raw might be what you seek Sep 20 06:11:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] Sep 20 06:24:47 abraxa_, I've played with ts_print and ts_print_raw thew produced pretty good output on single clicks (qemu) but go mad on multiple fast clicks: random or out of screen size coordinates. strange Sep 20 06:30:29 Any_Key: Sounds just like what I encounter, too Sep 20 06:30:46 Any_Key: I wonder if there's a bug report already... Sep 20 06:31:12 abraxa_, no only 2 bugs considering touchscreen Sep 20 06:31:22 Any_Key: Mind filing it then? Sep 20 06:31:57 abraxa_, Iwont to get more data about it first Sep 20 06:32:16 Any_Key: Great :) Sep 20 06:32:44 abraxa_, May be it time to get gadgetfs work :-/ Sep 20 06:33:05 Any_Key: What do you mean? Sep 20 06:35:18 abraxa_, I don't have GTA hardware, and it not so funny work on qemu without "real" access (mean ssh) Sep 20 06:36:39 Any_Key: Ah... yeah, I can see what you mean now ;x Sep 20 06:37:15 Any_Key: Waiting for GTA02? Sep 20 06:39:51 CM Not really, 1) don't have spare $400 2) and it steel hard to get electronics not approved by customs in to Russia ;-) Sep 20 06:40:11 Ah.. Ouch Sep 20 06:41:32 how close are you to a border, and do you have a friend outside that it could be delivered to, for you to collect? :) Sep 20 06:42:43 CM: ... Sep 20 06:42:52 CM, 3 I don't consider myself as programmer, translating and bug hunting good as a hobby, so I leave first devises to "real" devs Sep 20 06:42:55 ScaredyCat: any luck with your VCR? Sep 20 06:43:16 cjb_ie: yeah eventually... but I don;t know how Sep 20 06:43:29 it wasn't a long press on the power button then? Sep 20 06:43:36 no... Sep 20 06:43:46 thanks for all the lnks though... Sep 20 06:43:51 np Sep 20 06:43:54 cjb_ie, Pretty close to Finland, Its not so big problem to get outside and back for me Sep 20 06:43:56 Any_Key: Well, I'm not a "real" dev either, but it's fun to try and get things working Sep 20 06:43:56 I think I cold service it now ;) Sep 20 06:44:05 could Sep 20 06:44:06 ScaredyCat: ..! Sep 20 06:44:29 have you looked at my builds lateley? Sep 20 06:44:44 Nope, but I'd happily try one Sep 20 06:45:00 i'm sure there's a couple of finns here Sep 20 06:45:03 I flashed my own build from last evening this morning, and still can't get calling to work Sep 20 06:45:14 cjb_ie: Quite a few even Sep 20 06:45:14 right, time to go to work *sigh* Sep 20 06:46:08 thry this one ;) http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/qtopia-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 Sep 20 06:46:25 looks fishy cjb_ie Sep 20 06:46:39 fins ... fishy, get it... Sep 20 06:46:46 I'll get me coat Sep 20 06:47:21 ScaredyCat: failed: Connection refused. Sep 20 06:47:42 wtf Sep 20 06:48:00 Same as with your images before Sep 20 06:48:32 oh.. Sep 20 06:48:34 perms Sep 20 06:48:37 1 sec Sep 20 06:48:38 ScaredyCat: I'd like to try building a qtopia image. did you make the recipe yourself? Sep 20 06:48:47 no zmedico Sep 20 06:49:28 get the qtopia-opensource-4.3 tarball and look in the devices/ficgta01 folder Sep 20 06:49:29 I didn't see a recipe for it in the OE repository Sep 20 06:49:37 ahh Sep 20 06:49:45 it's in the qtopia tarball,, local overlay Sep 20 06:49:49 good morning Sep 20 06:50:04 any chance to run that image on qemu? Sep 20 06:50:06 ScaredyCat: thanks Sep 20 06:50:14 ScaredyCat: Downloading now :) Sep 20 06:50:42 ScaredyCat: What kernel? Sep 20 06:51:36 * CM gets the latest in the folder Sep 20 06:52:10 ScaredyCat: Btw, do you have a working uboot_env? mtdblock1 that is? Sep 20 06:52:22 I'm a bit worried that mine is totally borked.. Sep 20 06:52:34 Can't seem to overwrite it correctly even Sep 20 06:52:50 I've tried both with dd and dfu-util Sep 20 06:52:52 try http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/OpenMoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070919-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Sep 20 06:53:04 :O Sep 20 06:53:12 whay happens when you dd it? Sep 20 06:53:29 Nothing Sep 20 06:53:38 Looks just the same when I restart Sep 20 06:53:59 All black, only Boot and Factory Reset as options, and Boot never works Sep 20 06:54:09 Still fail on "Bad magic number" every time Sep 20 06:54:23 Somewhat annoying, but I've gotten used to it by now Sep 20 06:55:00 mmm... lemmie dig it out Sep 20 06:55:09 kernel is 2.6.22.5-moko11 for that image btw Sep 20 06:55:34 Have it downloaded already :) Sep 20 06:55:41 Just took the latest one Sep 20 06:55:52 http://buildhost.automated.it/mtdblock1_b.bin Sep 20 06:56:21 did you notice what the image was? Sep 20 06:56:44 What image? Sep 20 06:57:02 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sep 20 06:57:19 try http://buildhost.automated.it/OM200....... Sep 20 06:57:36 Ah, yes. Have it too, thanks Sep 20 06:57:47 But wasn't that the same image as you posted the first time? Sep 20 06:58:01 no.. first one was a symlink Sep 20 06:58:02 They're the exact same size, and created at the same time :) Sep 20 06:58:03 to it Sep 20 06:58:15 Ah, ok. It worked too though Sep 20 06:58:50 I just let wget name it Sep 20 07:00:21 :) Sep 20 07:00:54 I'll reflash as soon as I get home Sep 20 07:01:23 did you get the mtdblock tooo? Sep 20 07:01:48 Sure did, danke for that one too Sep 20 07:03:01 I'm a bit worried that I would have to do a nand erase on the boot_env to get it back in shape, but I can't use usb-serial until I have that in the boot menu.... Catch 22? Sep 20 07:04:20 I think it would just use the defaults then... you need to test, or get someone to test with qemu first Sep 20 07:04:54 What do you mean? Sep 20 07:05:06 Ah, ok Sep 20 07:05:17 And yes, it's using the defaults now all the time Sep 20 07:17:53 ScaredyCat: is that your server? Sep 20 07:18:08 yes Sep 20 07:18:32 well, not entirely mine :) Sep 20 07:18:33 are you compiling that? you should use 4.3.0 snapshots if you are Sep 20 07:19:17 I compiled it from the bb files in the 4.3.0 opensource release Sep 20 07:19:52 qtopia-opensource-src-4.3.0-preview.tar.gz Sep 20 07:22:16 is that bad ljp? Sep 20 07:22:36 .. for once I read a Readme :P Sep 20 07:23:05 not bad at all :) Sep 20 07:23:44 I will add a snapshot build .bb Sep 20 07:24:10 I did find a bug though... Sep 20 07:24:40 if you copy contacts from the sim to the phone, it says it failed, but actually does it Sep 20 07:25:20 but like I say, I'm pretty pleased that it required pretty much zero effort to build :) Sep 20 07:25:47 thats good to hear (about the zero effort to build) Sep 20 07:26:31 :) Sep 20 07:26:36 ljp: Means you have done a good work I guess Sep 20 07:26:45 and that fix for the ts.conf needs to be applied too Sep 20 07:26:56 oh ya thats right Sep 20 07:28:47 oh nice #qtopia is taking over :) Sep 20 07:29:10 i'll repeat this until i get banned but: any news on the shipments? Sep 20 07:30:13 berkus: I haven't heard a word in here yet Sep 20 07:31:47 sad :( Sep 20 07:35:05 hey all Sep 20 07:39:51 ScaredyCat: does that .tar.gz use the MokoMakefile? Sep 20 07:40:10 it has a makefile based on it... Sep 20 07:40:11 mickey|zzZZzz: Cool! I'm in Madrid at the moment, so connectivity's limited, but I'll be around for chatting more tomorrow afternoon Sep 20 07:40:25 but that's not what I used... I used the .bb fiels and bitbaked it... Sep 20 07:40:28 berkus: they are supposed to get the shipment today, that's the last i've heard about it, I'm still waiting for mine :P Sep 20 07:40:47 you could take their changes and add to mokomakefile ;) Sep 20 07:41:36 ScaredyCat: that's what I intend doing. Sep 20 07:41:42 :) Sep 20 07:42:00 I guess it'd be fairly simple , especially for you :) Sep 20 07:42:48 Now I know you're just looking for a GTA02 P0 vote. Sep 20 07:43:18 * bedboi is away: sleeping Sep 20 07:44:17 lol Sep 20 07:45:55 Hehe Sep 20 07:55:35 ljp: need to add the timezones package to the build Sep 20 08:02:39 guten morgen Sep 20 08:02:54 * RalphEichelberge reibt die Augen Sep 20 08:03:01 lets see Sep 20 08:03:56 how about the "phonybility" of our GA02v4 neo1973? - Sep 20 08:04:32 someone allready can hear anything/can be heart on the other side? Sep 20 08:05:25 it does work ... but its not 100% reliable... Sep 20 08:05:31 trolltechs people did it allready - but i dont feel like a troll Sep 20 08:06:16 did you had a phonecall? Sep 20 08:07:09 are there updates for gsmd? or what is related to it? Sep 20 08:07:48 I've had calls for a while.... Sep 20 08:07:54 can i get ipgkes or have i do a complete image (i did my last build aon 18th) Sep 20 08:07:55 there have been some updates... Sep 20 08:08:36 things got a bit worse... Sep 20 08:08:44 oh no! Sep 20 08:08:48 why? Sep 20 08:09:16 good images seem to be pre sept 04th ... although more recent ones are getting better. there are some fixes Sep 20 08:09:41 Yeah, the last two week have been bad Sep 20 08:09:53 I guess there's work going on with gsmd... it keeps crashing, doesn't start properly etc Sep 20 08:10:02 well thats the time i started with this :) Sep 20 08:10:20 so it just can get better, right? Sep 20 08:10:31 For sure Sep 20 08:11:08 CM and ScaredyCat - are you core developers - or why are you allways on IRC? Sep 20 08:11:15 did someone try the patchset from the mailing list? Sep 20 08:11:15 Hehe Sep 20 08:11:16 we have no life Sep 20 08:11:21 i c Sep 20 08:11:22 Exactly Sep 20 08:11:24 :) Sep 20 08:11:40 we have no wife? Sep 20 08:11:44 just kidding Sep 20 08:11:49 no, we have one of those... Sep 20 08:11:57 I do have a gf.. Sep 20 08:12:11 well - what do they say about OM? Sep 20 08:12:13 ..but she's living on the other side of sweden. :P Sep 20 08:12:14 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] Sep 20 08:12:33 my wife doesn't care about OM... Sep 20 08:12:46 but she quite fancies the case it came in Sep 20 08:12:49 CM: so she says:"please call me with a ordinary phone!" Sep 20 08:12:51 to use for he camera Sep 20 08:13:15 ScaredyCat: the debug-box? Sep 20 08:13:18 RalphEichelberge: Hehe.. Yes. "I tried to call today too but your phone is broken!" Sep 20 08:13:25 ya Sep 20 08:13:38 I'll move there soon though :) Sep 20 08:13:57 * CM starts a new OM build Sep 20 08:13:59 so how about the gsmd patches... did someone try? Sep 20 08:14:18 Not that I know of Sep 20 08:14:30 can I "just" update the gsmd? Sep 20 08:14:38 with MokoMake? Sep 20 08:14:56 what would be the easiest way to try those with bitbake? change the .bb or is there a better way? Sep 20 08:15:17 emdete: I'm guessing so, but I'm not that familiar with bitbake Sep 20 08:15:31 Don't you have to use quilt for that? Sep 20 08:15:38 * CM goes for some coffee Sep 20 08:16:11 CM: me too - that's the cause i did not try those patches .... hm Sep 20 08:16:15 CM: you didn't make update, did you? Sep 20 08:17:21 something else: who knows how to read the SIM-Data to find out which provider's SIM is plugged? Sep 20 08:40:16 gah, segfault when running `nand createbbt` in uboot on qemu Sep 20 08:40:23 :/ Sep 20 08:40:48 so don;t do it ;) Sep 20 08:40:50 something else: who knows how to read the SIM-Data to find out which provider's SIM is plugged? Sep 20 08:40:54 how does the time work on the neo? is it lost when its switched off? there is a hwclock on the device which can read a hardware clock but often the clock shows date 1/1/2000 Sep 20 08:41:07 comment it out - seemed to fix it for others gordonsyme Sep 20 08:41:21 ScaredyCat: cool, will give it a go Sep 20 08:41:35 emdete: iirc you need to set it... Sep 20 08:41:49 Ran qemu in a debugger for a bit, there's a lot of code in there and I don't have time to work through it so workarounds are good :) Sep 20 08:41:52 I don;t think any of the images do it at shutdown Sep 20 08:42:56 thanks ScaredyCat, that worked Sep 20 08:43:03 now I get to try QTopia :) Sep 20 08:46:33 dont let youself baffle with their beautiful appearence, gordonsyme ;) Sep 20 08:47:21 someday M$ will buy tolltreck .... Sep 20 08:49:24 Ralph: why do you think so? Sep 20 08:49:34 just a feeling Sep 20 08:49:38 i dont konw Sep 20 08:51:56 but M$ can never buy the openmoko project, can they? Sep 20 08:53:14 Ralph: oh, they propably just steal it... ;) Sep 20 08:53:54 that would be a good sign, that we did a good job ;) Sep 20 08:59:03 in 5 min mickey will talk about openmoko on OpenExpo Sep 20 08:59:07 livestream: http://stream.masterssystems.com:8000/openexpo.ogg Sep 20 08:59:21 too bad i have this sucky desktop with antique software Sep 20 08:59:24 and no speakers :( Sep 20 08:59:26 can't watch :( Sep 20 09:02:10 i can see it, but no sound Sep 20 09:02:34 Ralph: the sound will come :) Sep 20 09:02:44 ok Sep 20 09:02:58 Ralph: I have sound :) Sep 20 09:03:11 pity I have a top of the range desktop I made mistake of using debian testing on :-) Sep 20 09:05:50 hmpf sound is lagging around :> Sep 20 09:08:24 but.... it's deutch!!! doh!! Sep 20 09:08:46 deutsch Sep 20 09:08:49 ;) Sep 20 09:08:55 ja Sep 20 09:08:58 wow the video just arrive Sep 20 09:08:59 d Sep 20 09:09:21 yeah :D But the pity is that I know 3 languages but not deutsch :-/ Sep 20 09:09:38 merde! Sep 20 09:09:44 kuso! Sep 20 09:10:01 de gua qso? Sep 20 09:11:10 need a babel fish Sep 20 09:11:34 scheisse Sep 20 09:11:55 so is he telling anything new? Sep 20 09:12:11 not really ;) Sep 20 09:12:11 for that you only need to check out amateur radio abbreviations :) Sep 20 09:12:26 be friendly: if he annuonce the date of release of GTA02 could you write here? :D Sep 20 09:14:04 he is talking about GTA02 now Sep 20 09:14:52 where's the video? Sep 20 09:15:05 XorA: I know, but not understanding the deutsch, I must see only the images on the screen and capture the rarely words in english :D Sep 20 09:15:23 Fradeve: I dont speak Deutsch either Sep 20 09:15:28 well if I could hear anything I could translate Sep 20 09:15:30 but ... Sep 20 09:15:55 just restart the stream Sep 20 09:16:02 this ogg player of my firefox... Sep 20 09:16:06 Ralph: my interest is only the official date of release of GTA02, if there will any ;) Sep 20 09:16:08 and the sound is getting back to you ;) Sep 20 09:16:19 in december he said Sep 20 09:16:23 Ralph: with kaffeine the ogg rocks :D Sep 20 09:16:24 * XorA ended up using mplayer as that actually worked Sep 20 09:16:50 denis^da: december when? More or less? 20? Sep 20 09:16:52 ill try fradeve Sep 20 09:17:39 now his Neo killed the audio :-) Sep 20 09:17:41 He said december nothing more Sep 20 09:17:59 denis^da: ooook Sep 20 09:18:22 :) Sep 20 09:18:47 perfect, is working :) Sep 20 09:19:05 the video or the Neo? :D Sep 20 09:19:26 Fradeve: the neo - what else? ;) Sep 20 09:19:35 emdete: ahahaah Sep 20 09:20:35 omoko working on palm Sep 20 09:21:12 questions now Sep 20 09:21:32 siiit down! Sep 20 09:22:37 no umts Sep 20 09:22:57 chips are too expensive Sep 20 09:32:33 so, now wo doesn't understand deutsch wants a summary of what he said :D Sep 20 09:32:53 you talkin gto me? Sep 20 09:33:17 anyone :D Sep 20 09:34:07 I'm trying openmoko with qemu, I followed "Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile" from the wiki. How fast is it supost to be, cos its taking ages to boot Sep 20 09:34:10 last i know, he talked about briking your device Sep 20 09:34:28 and how you can use the debug board Sep 20 09:35:10 How come you know what German is in German, but don't know the language ;) Sep 20 09:35:24 mmm some informations --- the release date is at December Sep 20 09:35:32 also someone asked about detailed plans, ... about the hardware Sep 20 09:35:39 it will cost 450$ for the basic edition Sep 20 09:35:45 yeah? Sep 20 09:35:55 and that FIC is not willing to give everything away Sep 20 09:36:30 450$ is too much for consumer i guess Sep 20 09:36:48 but he called of a less price? Sep 20 09:37:10 street price for a HTC-Wizard in the Uk is 450 GBP Sep 20 09:37:23 so 450$ doesnt seem so much Sep 20 09:37:24 :/ Sep 20 09:37:42 XorA: but 450 GPB are more of 450€, or not? Sep 20 09:37:42 450 isn't that much... if it works Sep 20 09:38:04 UK£ 450 = 897.34500 US$ Sep 20 09:38:10 ouch! Sep 20 09:38:28 450$ is 36pence ;) Sep 20 09:38:43 lol Sep 20 09:39:07 if it's $ price thenit's acutlly 225 gbp Sep 20 09:39:09 you are on the stream still, guys? Sep 20 09:39:12 so, someone has asked him if the GTA02 will be functional? Sep 20 09:39:13 which is much better Sep 20 09:39:59 what does he mean by "FIC is not willing to give everything away" Sep 20 09:40:09 someone asked, if neo will be sold by a mobile-shop like vondafon has Sep 20 09:40:11 in terms of $$$ or in terms of access to hardware Sep 20 09:40:19 ahh k Sep 20 09:40:54 i think th neo will still be pretty 'specialist' even for the mass market release Sep 20 09:40:59 well they asked for hardware plans like curcits and so on Sep 20 09:41:32 ok, but the hardware isn't open source Sep 20 09:42:03 yes - it is somehow open hardware - to an extent Sep 20 09:42:46 is the anything else related to OM on that live stream no? Sep 20 09:42:50 now* Sep 20 09:43:31 well, I don't think it's fair to expect them to give away hardware plans.. we're really more insteredted in being able to use the hardware and *all* its components (gsm, gps etc) with opensource software... Sep 20 09:43:37 IMHO Sep 20 09:44:04 well i quit the stream now Sep 20 09:44:14 its about gnome only now Sep 20 09:44:15 but you were the translator! Sep 20 09:44:30 not anymore Sep 20 09:44:32 :) Sep 20 09:44:35 :( Sep 20 09:46:19 so, the GTA02 will be functional at December? :D Sep 20 09:47:07 if you do the bugfixes, maybe.... ;) Sep 20 09:47:52 mickeyl: did you adjust the dpi settings in xserver script for the Palm TX? Sep 20 09:48:21 using qtopia, it even automatically did callback allready Sep 20 09:49:01 but i want moko to do so Sep 20 09:52:35 callback? Sep 20 10:12:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] Sep 20 10:40:01 hi all. what news? Sep 20 10:41:46 There is a meteorite that's going to wipe out all life on the earth in 45 minutes. Sep 20 10:41:58 And no, GTA02 won't be released first. Sep 20 10:42:12 :) Sep 20 10:42:16 Basically little. Sep 20 10:45:23 speedevil: ehehe Sep 20 10:45:53 speedevil: there was a meteorite mistery story in peru the past days Sep 20 10:45:59 SpeedEvil: Funny enough, I was actually think about that the other day. Sep 20 10:46:25 SpeedEvil: Would I want to know that some thing like this was going to wipe life out before it happened, in the hope of doing some thing I'd never done before. Sep 20 10:46:54 wibbit: this is a common idea :D Sep 20 10:46:54 SpeedEvil: Or would I rather not know, and as such, not spend the laft 45 minutes of life realising just how much contents my stomach could hold Sep 20 10:47:04 Fradeve11: I know Sep 20 10:57:39 ufficial news on gta02? Sep 20 10:57:47 ? Sep 20 10:57:49 *official Sep 20 10:58:16 where? Sep 20 11:00:23 * Psi checks email Sep 20 11:01:50 from what I heard mickeyl said in his talk - December... Sep 20 11:02:07 he didn't state the year though ;) Sep 20 11:02:49 I wonder if a developer version will be out before that :) Sep 20 11:03:49 XD Sep 20 11:04:50 I mean, I primarily want it because it's the best PDA for my needs I have seen yet. Sep 20 11:05:07 that it's also a phone is just a bonus. Sep 20 11:06:23 it would be nice if they began selling the final hardware.. Sep 20 11:06:58 Jiten: zash`: there is going to be a release to prequalified developers. Sep 20 11:07:06 I don't think it's ready yet zash` Sep 20 11:07:19 This needs a month of testing by those devs Sep 20 11:07:28 mickeyl: was saying that it only booted with debug board attached atm Sep 20 11:07:29 or so. and then mass production Sep 20 11:08:07 SpeedEvil: so, no developer version for sale before the mass market version? Sep 20 11:08:24 Jiten: yes - there will be - in effect Sep 20 11:08:41 has anyone used the automatic usb networking under Fedora? Sep 20 11:08:41 tho1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 20 11:08:43 But only because the software may not be ready by the time GTA02 goes on sale Sep 20 11:09:02 huh Sep 20 11:09:13 tho1: yes, works ok here Sep 20 11:09:20 so, december is the date for going to sale? Sep 20 11:09:29 aloril: you did just as it says on the wiki? Sep 20 11:09:34 umm.. "date" Sep 20 11:09:34 aloril: it doesn't seem to work for me Sep 20 11:09:37 ( mean this command: ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 ) Sep 20 11:10:00 Jiten: probably - it's not certain. Sep 20 11:10:21 Jiten: that's about the minimal timescale a non-completely-rushed version of the hardware could be out if it all works right. Sep 20 11:10:26 aloril: so you didn't have automatic configuration working? Sep 20 11:10:55 ah, something completely automatic, yeah, not looked at that Sep 20 11:11:04 that's about 3 months from now. Will it really take that long to get GTA02 ready for mass production? Sep 20 11:11:10 yes. Sep 20 11:11:17 there are several stages to go through Sep 20 11:11:46 See the timeline on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Sep 20 11:13:05 Jiten: I would have thought there were some fully developed PDA's already out there that would suit your needs (though I have faith that the OpenMoko platform with eventually exceed them) Sep 20 11:14:38 wibbit: well, some of the existing ones might but I want linux on the thing. :) Sep 20 11:15:15 I practically just skipped the devices that came with Windows Sep 20 11:15:49 * SpeedEvil stabs the whole locked in hardware mindset. Sep 20 11:15:55 Jiten: There are quite a few linux capable pda's out there as well :) Sep 20 11:16:06 it might run on some of them but ... I was too lazy to search Sep 20 11:16:11 Jiten: sorry, don't meen to be argumentetive... Sep 20 11:16:51 wibbit: besides Nokia N800 and 770 I'm not aware of any :) are you? Sep 20 11:18:08 A large number of the sharp pda's Sep 20 11:18:18 and most of the Ipaq's can have linux retrofitted Sep 20 11:18:30 N800 has the big flaw that it doesn't have GPS. I'd need a separate device for that and a phone too. Sep 20 11:18:56 Personally, as far as the Neo1973 is concerned, my primary concern is an open phone, that is not locked controlled by a carrier/mobile manufacturer Sep 20 11:19:07 some of the shaprs and ipaqs looked, spec-wise, like they could do what I want. Sep 20 11:48:02 * _buz just saw neo in real for the first time Sep 20 11:48:05 <_buz> nice little device Sep 20 11:48:16 looks better in real life than on pics Sep 20 11:49:42 hi ! we just set up "celpaste" with is a pastebin site for moko-people , please feel free to use it for your paste's : http://celpaste.morb-design.com/ Sep 20 12:12:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Moscow]] [[Development_resources]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[User:Fradeve11]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[External_Feeds/it]] [[SWAG/it]] Sep 20 12:14:42 celpaste... Sep 20 12:15:05 i don't mean to be picky... but Sep 20 12:15:32 shouldn't it be cellpaste ( assuming you are targeting USA people) Sep 20 12:17:37 ist from marCEL Sep 20 12:18:09 like CELtune (nick) Sep 20 12:18:34 oh... ok.. Sep 20 12:18:47 I'll stfu then ;) Sep 20 12:18:59 Marcel_M: might be no harm to add a vhost and redirect just for those people who spell it wrong Sep 20 12:19:27 eheheh Sep 20 12:20:06 cjb_ie: thanks i'll do that Sep 20 12:23:22 ScaredyCat: please not ;) Sep 20 12:28:49 so it should be accessible over cellpaste.morb-design.com as well ;) Sep 20 12:36:32 hm, gsmd's comment says: "GSM libraries and daemons implementing the 07.10 specification" - as i understand gsmd implements gsm0707.... was that understanding wrong? Sep 20 12:46:02 Marcel_M: it does not seem to work... Sep 20 12:46:18 Marcel_M: I get a directory listing instead of the website Sep 20 12:47:18 Works here Sep 20 12:50:17 we just tested the config Sep 20 12:50:36 it should work now from both url's Sep 20 12:52:07 Ghiottone|work: does it work for you ? Sep 20 12:55:30 anyone got the URL handy for the 'latest' buildhost images? Sep 20 12:55:45 i wanna sync my work against the known-latest public image. is buildhost providing such things? Sep 20 12:55:53 I think so Sep 20 12:56:07 But they've been bad for the last two weeks, at least for me Sep 20 12:56:15 oh Sep 20 12:56:16 thats bad Sep 20 12:56:45 Shaped up a bit these last few days, but before that I could barely get the gui up Sep 20 12:56:55 So try the latest ones :) Sep 20 12:57:35 torpor: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=A Sep 20 12:57:44 Nothing happened in the last 3 days anyway Sep 20 12:58:16 * CM has 5 minutes to kill until the next coffee break Sep 20 12:58:43 CM: thanks Sep 20 12:58:57 i just want a 'working' public image i can test my ipk's against, as well as my own local image. Sep 20 12:59:05 i don't care if its not all working, i just need a testbase. Sep 20 12:59:26 tell you what though: it'd be *very* nice if there were more public releases being 'officially' blabbed about by the core team. Sep 20 12:59:38 Yes, definitely Sep 20 12:59:46 torpor: what packages are you testing? Sep 20 12:59:48 Been a lot of discussions about that in here Sep 20 12:59:50 Marcel_M: yes now it's working Sep 20 13:01:00 emdete: my own newly-minted openmoko only apps. Sep 20 13:01:21 torpor: what is 'openmoko only'? Sep 20 13:01:38 It checks for a working dialer first. Sep 20 13:01:39 Harald has been very quite lately, wonder what he's up to Sep 20 13:01:51 i figure i may as well just write some apps only for the openmoko. i'm not porting in other words, but using the enviornment to write a few new things .. Sep 20 13:02:02 got a 2D game i'll try to release as soon as i'm done testing .. Sep 20 13:02:03 Though the GSMd changes look promising Sep 20 13:02:18 maybe a couple things i might put up on a feed, sooner or later. i think its awesome that i can do that, btw. Sep 20 13:02:25 Ghiottone|work: cool Sep 20 13:02:31 :) Sep 20 13:02:34 SpeedEvil: ...changes? the patches? Sep 20 13:02:52 torpor: he, what kind of game? Sep 20 13:03:09 emdete: 2d puzzle. i'll tell you more about it in a day orso. ;) Sep 20 13:03:14 emdete: yes Sep 20 13:03:24 openmoko: 03thomas * r3018 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog doc/reference/libmokoui2-docs.sgml): * doc/reference/libmokoui2-docs.sgml: Add title and section name Sep 20 13:03:28 torpor: (my girlfriend always asks ;) Sep 20 13:03:43 check it out folks, doc book support in libmokoui Sep 20 13:03:55 :) Sep 20 13:03:56 SpeedEvil: how did you include those? Sep 20 13:04:14 emdete: I diddn't - I just mean the reported results on the ML. Sep 20 13:04:20 I have nothing to do with it. Sep 20 13:04:48 I just want a nice ebook reader. Sep 20 13:05:10 SpeedEvil: :( yes, i read those also. but they are not included already and i'm not that familar with bb Sep 20 13:05:32 SpeedEvil: thought you could help out... :D Sep 20 13:07:10 emdete: your gf asks you for games on the openmoko? cool .. ;) Sep 20 13:07:39 torpor: shure - she saw the scummvm and said she wants one Sep 20 13:07:56 torpor: battery live will kill gaming-fun... :/ Sep 20 13:08:00 ah i haven't gotten scummvm working on mine yet .. is there an easy .ipk setup for it yet? Sep 20 13:08:10 torpor: shure. but: no X Sep 20 13:08:13 i have the game files, i think.. but scummvm doesn't seem to like them sometimes. Sep 20 13:08:22 torpor: oh, sorry, no, it uses X... Sep 20 13:08:36 no .shortcut file, to start it up or what? Sep 20 13:08:46 i.e. no openmoko ipk buildstep Sep 20 13:08:53 torpor: yes there are some files that are not supported... no i started scummvm from console Sep 20 13:08:54 is there a SD-microSD adapter included in with the neo? Sep 20 13:08:58 zash`, yes Sep 20 13:08:59 yes Sep 20 13:09:02 nice Sep 20 13:09:08 torpor: it's in my repo Sep 20 13:09:16 ScaredyCat: your repo? Sep 20 13:09:21 ys Sep 20 13:09:23 yes Sep 20 13:09:39 does someone know why fic decided to not allow to remove the sd without removing battery _and_ sim? Sep 20 13:09:47 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/ Sep 20 13:09:50 emdete: design Sep 20 13:10:21 copy the scaredycat.conf to /etc/ipkg/ on your phone, do an ipkg update and then ipkg install scummvm Sep 20 13:10:24 emdete: packing issues Sep 20 13:10:32 ScaredyCat: nice. Sep 20 13:10:37 emdete: it would be nice. Sep 20 13:10:40 but, ... Sep 20 13:11:00 isn't it a dual reader thingy? Sep 20 13:11:04 yes. Sep 20 13:11:31 SpeedEvil: there is about 1cm^2 free space (air) left in the neo.... :D Sep 20 13:11:32 ScaredyCat: i like it. Sep 20 13:11:43 dual-reader? Sep 20 13:11:45 emdete: it's _much_ more than that. Sep 20 13:11:46 i will try to add a bb to set up the proper shortcut for scummvm .. Sep 20 13:11:56 emdete: I think around 5-8v Sep 20 13:11:57 cc Sep 20 13:12:02 there is one torpor... Sep 20 13:12:03 anyone got a gameset that i could use to test with, which are known-working? Sep 20 13:12:10 More if you count small voids Sep 20 13:12:23 install the ipk from my repo and it'll put it in games Sep 20 13:12:40 with an icon Sep 20 13:12:50 plus it automagically rotates the screen Sep 20 13:13:07 ...and dont foret a ipkg with the usual gamefiles... :D Sep 20 13:14:28 you can get free games from the scummvm site... Sep 20 13:14:36 is someone also interested in porting om to the greenphone? Sep 20 13:14:50 technically thats "illegal" Sep 20 13:14:55 as best i know Sep 20 13:14:55 yeah... Sep 20 13:15:08 does the greenphone have open hardware >? Sep 20 13:15:10 raster: shure.. was just a joke Sep 20 13:15:13 runing anyting BUT trolls os+qtopia is violating the eula/license Sep 20 13:15:14 :) Sep 20 13:15:21 andylockran: not more closed than the neo Sep 20 13:15:31 raster: no Sep 20 13:15:32 there are some scumm games freely distributable these days... Beneath a Steel Sky, Flight of the Amazon Queen Sep 20 13:15:35 emdete: oh, I apologise. Sep 20 13:15:39 raster: that was changed recently Sep 20 13:15:42 oooh Sep 20 13:15:44 thats changed eh? Sep 20 13:15:46 ok Sep 20 13:15:48 my bad Sep 20 13:16:04 andylockran: you are bound to kernel 2.4 because there is a closed source driver needed. Sep 20 13:16:18 then its definitely less open than the neo Sep 20 13:16:42 well the gta-02 Sep 20 13:16:45 would be funny to have om on it where qtopia tries to work on the neo Sep 20 13:17:14 OM-iphone would be funner :) Sep 20 13:17:23 SpeedEvil: agree!! :D Sep 20 13:17:52 someone working on that already? Sep 20 13:18:04 i doubt it Sep 20 13:18:26 all the iphone owners are so in love with apple they wouldnt dream of violating their iphones :) Sep 20 13:19:36 raster: oh, i thought they all love steve Sep 20 13:19:45 and unca Steve has just dedicated himself to fighting off the evil ones that hack the phone Sep 20 13:19:46 that too Sep 20 13:19:47 :) Sep 20 13:20:08 mjr: does he? Sep 20 13:20:13 Yes. Sep 20 13:20:14 See /. Sep 20 13:20:19 his holiness, the steve Sep 20 13:20:22 Though actually Sep 20 13:20:33 they seemed to be more talking about the unlocking Sep 20 13:20:43 which IMO is a totally different matter. Sep 20 13:20:51 unlocking from the network Sep 20 13:20:56 we should post Unlocking Software for the neo and see how many people fall for it Sep 20 13:21:27 yeah, it was the unlocking that was most at issue I believe Sep 20 13:21:29 I see nothing wrong with subsidised phones personally. Sep 20 13:22:28 SpeedEvil: do you have a link? Sep 20 13:22:40 to? Sep 20 13:22:58 steve fighting unlockers Sep 20 13:23:26 http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/19/1651258 Sep 20 13:24:54 the iphone isn't subsidised though Sep 20 13:25:02 Isn't it? Sep 20 13:25:06 no Sep 20 13:25:06 How do you know? Sep 20 13:25:31 I designed it Sep 20 13:25:33 :P Sep 20 13:25:39 O2 - UK - reportedly gives 40% of the revenue - not profit - from the O2 contract back to apple Sep 20 13:25:42 it only costs about 80$ to build one Sep 20 13:25:50 cost != price Sep 20 13:25:57 at least they claim that apple is forcing it to be sold for full price Sep 20 13:26:51 seriously... if they were subsidised they wouldn't be that price, Sep 20 13:27:08 hmmm Sep 20 13:27:11 i wonder Sep 20 13:27:14 The price may not reflect the subsidy Sep 20 13:27:17 ignoring software development costs Sep 20 13:27:21 and that revenue slice is just Apple milking for more dough since, well, they cna Sep 20 13:27:30 the iphone is not dissimilar to the gta-02 Sep 20 13:27:38 give or take Sep 20 13:27:42 as best i know Sep 20 13:27:51 the iphone contracts is like the 3g network thing... Sep 20 13:27:56 other than lots more flash Sep 20 13:28:04 if - for example iphone is mandating $100 more from the network providers than it sells to the end user for. Sep 20 13:28:05 carriers clearly have bugger all clue Sep 20 13:30:42 my neo with qtopia has been on for 4 hours so far... Sep 20 13:30:48 openmoko: 03andrew * r3019 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (18 files in 5 dirs): Merge changes from upstream (closing bug #886). Sep 20 13:30:59 still 4 blobs on the battery Sep 20 13:31:24 blobs? Sep 20 13:31:52 pixmap of battery Sep 20 13:32:07 it's made up of 5 sections (blobs) Sep 20 13:32:07 ah Sep 20 13:32:09 bah Sep 20 13:32:22 * SpeedEvil remembers he hasn't finished this patch. Sep 20 13:32:22 i really dont like the segmented battery thing Sep 20 13:32:30 50% is 0 - basically Sep 20 13:32:31 its artificially making it coarse Sep 20 13:32:45 the last 2 segments will go _really_ fast Sep 20 13:32:52 it's better than not having anything Sep 20 13:32:58 I've got a proto-patch that does better battery reporting. Sep 20 13:35:13 http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1285054,00.html Sep 20 13:38:19 nice ak47 Sep 20 13:38:33 should ban all 14yo Sep 20 13:38:55 should make them go up chimneys Sep 20 13:39:45 work in the salt mines Sep 20 13:39:52 stupid question: OM has at now an IRC client? Sep 20 13:39:57 like you can tell if a gun is real on crappy cctv Sep 20 13:40:24 The bumper sticker on my car reads "Insured by Smith&Wesson". Everyone needs a weapon. Sep 20 13:40:24 DukeOfURL: I've already proposed shipping all persons 12-14 years of age to co-op farms in the midwest. Sep 20 13:40:26 buz: dont you know they all have a lable saying "Real Gun" Sep 20 13:40:39 DukeOfURL: And I'm totally serious about it. Sep 20 13:40:54 technically fake guns are supposed to come with orange colored parts Sep 20 13:40:59 put them on a rotating schedule of two week long vacations. Sep 20 13:41:03 Moriarty_: to replace our illegal immigrants that we're gonna kick out? Sep 20 13:41:14 no, to give them something useful to do. Sep 20 13:41:53 12-14 year olds are not cute enough for their parents to show off, and too young to contribute to the family economically. Sep 20 13:42:26 hence, the parents mostly ignore their need for status affirmation. Sep 20 13:42:34 thus, the popularity contest. Sep 20 13:42:47 It's a difficult age Sep 20 13:42:49 an arbitrary, malicious form of status seeking. Sep 20 13:43:02 may not necessarily be malicious Sep 20 13:43:08 we should harvest them as code monkeys ;9 Sep 20 13:43:52 hence, we give them something useful to do, and I'd imagine most of the more malicious elements go away. Sep 20 13:44:01 OM at now has an IRC client? Sep 20 13:44:16 and the parents will appreciate them more. Sep 20 13:44:39 absence makes the heart grow fonder, and when you only get to see your child 8 weeks out of the year, I think you'll appreciate them more. Sep 20 13:45:06 I think the Brits got it right--boarding schools. Sep 20 13:45:22 i doubt it. most of the more malicious ones are in an age where they could do legitimate work if only they cared for it Sep 20 13:45:48 well, on a co-op you have a reason to care. Sep 20 13:45:53 no workie? No food! Sep 20 13:46:08 so steal the food from the hard working ones Sep 20 13:46:17 so what is it about the Asian cultures that the children have such a strong work ethic? Sep 20 13:46:27 DukeOfURL: parental obsession. Sep 20 13:46:29 if anything you want the children be mixed with adults like in earlier centuries Sep 20 13:46:35 not seggregate them even more Sep 20 13:46:58 not a problem. Give them that. On the farm. :) Sep 20 13:47:21 so you have a bunch rednecks watching after kids?? Sep 20 13:47:21 Here in the states, if you try withholding food from your kid you'll wind up in court. Sep 20 13:47:31 DukeOfURL: rightfully so Sep 20 13:47:47 no, I mean btween meal food. Sep 20 13:47:50 The reality show with preteens is interesting. Sep 20 13:48:06 The reason they diddn't do it with teens is obvious though. Sep 20 13:48:50 Kid nation. Sep 20 13:49:10 I should watch that. When's it on? Sep 20 13:49:14 Don't watch broadcast TV... Sep 20 13:49:19 pap Sep 20 13:49:36 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7002065.stm Sep 20 13:50:47 hmm. should be interesting to see if they create a functioning society. Sep 20 13:51:00 or if it turns into the Stanford Prison Experiment. Sep 20 13:51:48 I think I read where a parent sued CBS for child abuse (Kid Nation) Sep 20 13:52:00 stanford prison experiment started out with two classes of people Sep 20 13:52:16 beginning to sound like Lord of the Flies around here Sep 20 13:52:23 survivor generally didnt degrade into something like that though Sep 20 13:52:27 that says Moriarty, archenemy of sherlock holmes.... Sep 20 13:52:32 :D Sep 20 13:53:12 i would expect, from a purely evolutionary point of view, that the average case will not turn into lord of the flies Sep 20 13:53:29 I would think so. Sep 20 13:53:46 but it's not unknown for reality producers to skew their populations for increased drama. Sep 20 13:54:22 i can't watch reality shows Sep 20 13:54:27 they are just so bloody inane Sep 20 13:54:48 the only one I watched was Unanimous, mainly because it was cool from a game-theory standpoint. Sep 20 13:54:50 Aye Sep 20 13:55:03 (still preferable to utter crap like ugly betty i guess) Sep 20 13:55:16 I'd rather eat my own testicles Sep 20 13:55:40 Do you have Sopranos in the UK yet? It's worth watching. Sep 20 13:55:51 probably on sky Sep 20 13:55:56 pay tv... Sep 20 13:56:24 SGA returns Oct 1st :-D Sep 20 13:56:30 has anyone used dasher on neo? Sep 20 13:56:36 but considering that most of the stuff on tv is utter crap, I'm not about to pay more for it Sep 20 13:56:43 taneli: is there an implementation for neo? Sep 20 13:56:51 no idea, was just curious Sep 20 13:56:52 if so, that would be rockin'. Sep 20 13:56:57 I haven't seen that at all XorA Sep 20 13:57:03 Since Sopranos has ended, I'm about to cancel HBO. Sep 20 13:57:05 i tried it on my tablet pc once. weird to say the least. Sep 20 13:57:18 dasher seems like it would be very finger-friendly. Sep 20 13:57:26 not sure about the screen size though. Sep 20 13:57:27 yeah but it confused the heck out my brain Sep 20 13:57:28 is it any good? or crap like Battlestar galactica or lost Sep 20 13:57:55 ScaredyCat: I liked it as a bit of silliness, but if you have taste its probably total crap :-D Sep 20 13:57:55 last hbo series i truly enjoyed was six feet under Sep 20 13:58:20 openmoko: 03thomas * r3020 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-search-bar.c): Sep 20 13:58:20 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-search-bar.c: (moko_search_bar_init), Sep 20 13:58:20 openmoko: (moko_search_bar_new), (moko_search_bar_new_with_combo), Sep 20 13:58:20 openmoko: (moko_search_bar_get_combo_box), (moko_search_bar_get_entry), Sep 20 13:58:20 openmoko: (moko_search_bar_search_visible): Sep 20 13:58:24 openmoko: Add documentation for MokoSearchBar Sep 20 13:58:24 I like TV shows that I can listen to but don't really have to watch. Because I'm always doinf something else with the TV on. Sep 20 13:58:40 ScaredyCat: to gage my likings, I thought BSG season 1 was ok, 2 slightly below ok and 3 dire Sep 20 13:58:50 there was a show called oddesy or somethign? Sep 20 13:58:57 ScaredyCat: Oddeysey 5 Sep 20 13:59:01 yes, that Sep 20 13:59:06 dasher with mouse is confusing Sep 20 13:59:06 I saw it on Dutch Tv... Sep 20 13:59:07 ScaredyCat: about space shuttle crew sent back in time Sep 20 13:59:30 '24' is worth watching if you can suspend belief. Sep 20 13:59:32 except they fucked it up and showed every episode out of sequence.. even the 2 parters Sep 20 13:59:38 i was just wondering if it is better than (say) nokia's T9 Sep 20 13:59:50 DukeOfURL: 24 season 1,3, and 4, I'd say. Sep 20 13:59:56 the first 24 was ok, then it just got samey Sep 20 14:00:00 Heroes have started ok at least, seen the first 4 episodes Sep 20 14:00:10 ScaredyCat: heh heh, thats ok, as the story didnt really go anywhere Sep 20 14:00:12 2 had the cougar, 5 was meh, and I couldn't rouse any interest for 6. Sep 20 14:00:29 heros looks promising, except like lost or bsg nothing actually happens in each episode Sep 20 14:00:45 heroes is structured rather interestingly. Sep 20 14:00:57 I like the guy called hero Sep 20 14:00:58 * CM still think Oz was the best series ever Sep 20 14:01:00 ScaredyCat: the nothing happens seems to be how Americans now make series Sep 20 14:01:09 It's damn annoying. Sep 20 14:01:10 roughly 3-episode mini-arcs advancing a season-long arc. Sep 20 14:01:12 ScaredyCat: then they wonder why rating bomb after first season Sep 20 14:01:14 XorA: just filling time Sep 20 14:01:41 in essence they are now stretching movies into 24*40min tv Sep 20 14:02:16 Threshold was the worst, 12 episodes and absolutely nothing, not a single advancement in plot at all Sep 20 14:02:18 it's all pap I don;t know why I bother... Sep 20 14:02:58 There are few that get story arcs moderately right. Sep 20 14:03:07 B5, buffy. Sep 20 14:03:14 firefly? Sep 20 14:03:22 Can't really tell Sep 20 14:03:25 * XorA shudders and dies at the word firefly Sep 20 14:03:34 * buz does the same about buffy Sep 20 14:03:38 I diddn't much like FF. Sep 20 14:03:49 and dont get my started on startrek.* Sep 20 14:03:55 errm, andromeda was ok for the blue girl.... Sep 20 14:04:07 ScaredyCat: yeah, she was hot Sep 20 14:04:12 ScaredyCat: but so was the ship Sep 20 14:04:48 that girl on who played the ship ended up as the doctor on stargate Sep 20 14:04:53 Personally, I think that 'Enterprise' could have worked for another series, set in the mirror universe. Sep 20 14:05:15 I only ever got to see a couple of those.. Sep 20 14:05:20 looked promising.. Sep 20 14:05:21 * XorA was ready to punch screen on Enterprise last episode, bloody Troi and Riker Sep 20 14:05:56 It's noticable how little thought went into ebooks on trek. Sep 20 14:06:01 what was that other one.. Sep 20 14:06:26 with that woman in black, and moya(sp) Sep 20 14:06:27 * Ghiottone|work is watching Voyager episodes, these days... Sep 20 14:06:38 I mean, a large armful of ebooks, as nobody'd think of putting many titles on one book. Sep 20 14:07:22 * SpeedEvil ponders what we can learn from trek. Sep 20 14:07:41 'never try to calculate pi to the last decimal place at high priority'. Sep 20 14:07:51 since when did this channel become television themed :P Sep 20 14:08:08 this channel occasionally ventures quite far from where it belongs Sep 20 14:08:22 usually it happens when a sufficient number of people are bored Sep 20 14:08:24 It's better than constantly asking for information that isn't out there... Sep 20 14:08:46 not sure if we had this already, but GTA02 is now scheduled for december Sep 20 14:09:01 Was an actual date in December mentioned? Sep 20 14:09:05 no Sep 20 14:09:26 also the 100ma usb power is not set in stone Sep 20 14:09:51 * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks in Sep 20 14:09:52 * SpeedEvil wonders if his USB-power thingy may be useful for GTA02 Sep 20 14:10:24 buz: Where did you hear December? Sep 20 14:10:31 openexpo, from mickey Sep 20 14:11:12 finally got my hands on a real neo Sep 20 14:11:16 December == release, or December == silicon printing, or did he specify? Sep 20 14:11:24 buz: congrats :) Sep 20 14:11:29 :) Sep 20 14:11:38 HistoryOnTheRoad: only to play with at the booth Sep 20 14:11:48 i think he meant december shipping Sep 20 14:11:53 Sigh. Sep 20 14:12:02 and if it was for him, 2008 will see a qwerty device Sep 20 14:12:21 Is there any way to download the video of mickey's speech if you missed the live broadcast? Sep 20 14:12:26 i have no idea Sep 20 14:12:29 but it was german anyhow Sep 20 14:12:38 buz: That's ok :D Sep 20 14:12:51 Es ist ganz einfach.. :P Sep 20 14:12:56 if you read the mailinglist, few things were new Sep 20 14:13:08 * CM checks the ml Sep 20 14:13:28 i meant he didnt say much we didnt already know Sep 20 14:13:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] Sep 20 14:14:00 case seems surprisingly solid, i can see it survive drops Sep 20 14:14:16 (i have my doubt about that with some of the htc devices) Sep 20 14:14:44 oh and his neo actually does make and receive calls Sep 20 14:15:01 CM: i think the OpenExpo team will make the videos available Sep 20 14:15:14 * buz bows Sep 20 14:15:15 mickeyl: Ah, nice. Thanks :) Sep 20 14:15:23 There are some drop reports on the phone on the wiki Sep 20 14:15:56 mickeyl: hey Sep 20 14:16:37 hey zecke Sep 20 14:16:53 hi zecke Sep 20 14:16:59 zecke: you committed code using deprecated functions to libmokoui Sep 20 14:17:14 boom boom boom mickeyl's in the room Sep 20 14:17:14 if that throw against wall to reboot feature is implemented we may soon get a lot of them ;) Sep 20 14:17:31 December shipping isn't too bad ... if that is stateside, at least ;) Sep 20 14:17:35 buz: you'll need a lot :) Sep 20 14:17:44 thos: what did I commit to libmokoui? For me OM2007.1 is dead, so do you mean mokoui2? Sep 20 14:17:55 zecke: yes 2 Sep 20 14:17:58 * mickeyl will leave soon... train back to FFM in a bit Sep 20 14:18:01 December if no delays of course. Sep 20 14:18:03 With luck. Sep 20 14:18:11 thos: in which revision did I do so? Sep 20 14:18:14 :( Sep 20 14:18:15 ScaredyCat: the gui who was responsible for the booth actually seems to use his neo as primary phone Sep 20 14:18:22 3 months of time is nothing... Sep 20 14:18:35 the booth had a gui! Sep 20 14:18:46 buz: Here the wiki page btw http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness Sep 20 14:18:54 buz: who was on the booth? Sep 20 14:19:04 buz: do they carry a car battery round with them thn? Sep 20 14:19:04 hows the weight of gta02? i imagine it's slightly heavier? Sep 20 14:19:18 prolly about a wash. Sep 20 14:19:20 ScaredyCat: looked like a thinkpad x40 to me ;) Sep 20 14:19:22 It loses a speaker too Sep 20 14:19:28 lol Sep 20 14:19:59 zecke: r2626 Sep 20 14:20:01 Well, we have to all cross our fingers. :) Sep 20 14:20:08 Though I suppose the battery is probably heavier. Sep 20 14:21:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness loool Sep 20 14:21:57 It was scheduled for late sept/early oct ... production is a few weeks, so November was a realistic date for them to ship. December to ship ... isn't horrible. Sep 20 14:21:58 thos: Ah you mean, I use a a method that is deprecated. And you probably mean gtk_object_sink? Sep 20 14:22:24 Well - if there has to be a testing phase first, that pushes it out some. Sep 20 14:22:38 thos: feel free to use the gobject equivalent, I thought we still target gtk2.6 Sep 20 14:22:51 actually i think production can be quite quick if all components are on stock Sep 20 14:23:09 serious QC might take a while though Sep 20 14:23:34 zecke: yeah, we're targeting 2.10 afaik (maybe 2.12?) Sep 20 14:23:38 yeah, stuffing SMT components onto boards can be done in minutes per board Sep 20 14:24:03 zecke: by the way, you'll be interested to know I added gtk-doc support to libmokoui2 Sep 20 14:24:22 whoohoo http://www.ddj.com/mobile/201807645?cid=RSSfeed_DDJ_All Sep 20 14:24:24 * zecke makes a connection between thos and thomas Sep 20 14:24:43 zecke: yup, we're one and the same ;-) Sep 20 14:25:04 thos: do you want to change the gtk_object_sink usage or should I? Sep 20 14:25:29 meus: press releases :D Sep 20 14:25:43 zecke: feel free, i'll probably do a check that everything compiles with DISABLE_DEPRECATED at some point Sep 20 14:26:33 I haven't found the javavm or web browser on qtopia at all Sep 20 14:26:59 mickeyl: hehe :) Sep 20 14:27:01 ScaredyCat: i think trolltech bundles it with opera for commericial clients Sep 20 14:27:12 and SXE is still disabled, but calls work Sep 20 14:27:30 they also have some Java implementation that renders to Qt directly Sep 20 14:28:12 if wonder if qtwebkit could run on qtopia though Sep 20 14:28:32 buz: WebKit/Qt can, see an old blog entry by another harald Sep 20 14:29:12 buz: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/01/19/webkit-on-embedded/ Sep 20 14:29:39 nice Sep 20 14:30:28 and at vga, you may actually be able to use most webpages Sep 20 14:31:15 on qvga you cant and i'm not really willing to believe that hvga works well either Sep 20 14:31:34 does webkit render pages in vga, or higer and scales down? Sep 20 14:31:55 zash`: how do you mean? Sep 20 14:32:26 emdete: most pages isnt designed for vga anymore, more like 1024x768 Sep 20 14:32:45 zash`: ah, okay, it does not scale by default Sep 20 14:33:13 the safari on ipån seems to have some scaling/zoom stuffs Sep 20 14:33:59 zash`: yes. i am just about to try to understand webkit - on the neo i use webkit-gtk which does not support much Sep 20 14:34:31 i've seen the zooming feature on s60, it looks neat but usability is really bad Sep 20 14:35:00 the history made of small pics of pages definitely has got some use though Sep 20 14:35:18 yes, it tries to jump between the text blocks... but does not always hot those Sep 20 14:35:54 zash`: WebKit/WebCore is not doing a real layout, they try to get the best fit for the viewport width (firefox 3.0 is going to do the same) Sep 20 14:36:46 how different from khtml is webkit these days? i dont notice much different between firefox and khtml (aside of the former being more flexible whereas the latter is muuuch faster) Sep 20 14:37:17 i don't know khtml... Sep 20 14:37:37 webkit = apples khtml fork Sep 20 14:37:38 buz: the basic design of Webkit and khtml are still similiar, but webkit is better evolved, more easy to understand Sep 20 14:37:39 khtml is where webkit originally came from Sep 20 14:37:44 i think Sep 20 14:37:58 i wonder if kde4 will eventually drop khtml in favor of qt webkit Sep 20 14:38:04 shure... but apple did a lot of improvements, i can't tell which Sep 20 14:38:24 apple will include full svg support... Sep 20 14:38:33 khtml has svg support i think Sep 20 14:38:34 aren't they merging webkit back into khtml? Sep 20 14:38:53 zash`: truth to be told, after reading planetkde all the time, i honestly cant tell Sep 20 14:39:05 some wanted to do that, others did not Sep 20 14:39:28 seeing how widely webkit is used these days, i think khtml should go Sep 20 14:42:28 buz: kde4 will use webkit Sep 20 14:42:40 good to hear Sep 20 14:42:52 afaik kde will switch to webkit, and they have a agreement with apple that they will cooperate. the first thing will be full svg-support then Sep 20 14:43:37 savage! Sep 20 14:43:37 did anyone already put some effort into making a combined image with qtopia and the openmoko default gui? I would like to have a system where i can just switch runlevels or so to use either of the systems. Sep 20 14:44:16 i'm a bit reluctant to over-flash my qtopia image since it works so well. :) Sep 20 14:44:29 can i download neo-qtopia image somewhere? Sep 20 14:44:57 emdete: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php Sep 20 14:45:15 perhaps you can put qtopia on sd? Sep 20 14:45:48 emdete: better http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 20 14:47:04 emdete: I have a 'newer' image available... Sep 20 14:47:05 emdete: yea, but multiboot would be tachnically unnecessary since both use the same basic linux system. Sep 20 14:47:45 maybe you could ismply give a param to init to decide which one to load? Sep 20 14:47:51 init scripts that says press aux for qtopia, power for openmoko? Sep 20 14:48:37 jpcass: something like that. Or better a way to switch from oe to the other. like you can switch window managers Sep 20 14:49:14 boot the last one that was running and add a button to switch? Sep 20 14:49:19 init 2 for default, int 3 for qtopia :) Sep 20 14:50:49 yeah runlevels Sep 20 14:51:32 i guess you only need to add qtopia-phone to the recipe Sep 20 14:55:49 see my vest, see my vest... Sep 20 14:55:49 the first time I booted qtopia it found bluetooth Sep 20 14:55:56 ever since then it says it's not available Sep 20 14:56:05 did you turn it off? Sep 20 14:56:13 bluetooth that is Sep 20 14:56:35 I don't think so... but now the control panel thing won't even give me the option Sep 20 14:56:57 (Bluetooth not available.) Sep 20 14:57:07 is all it shows in the control panel Sep 20 14:59:08 bmidgley: maybe something broken in ~root/Settings/Trolltech/Bluetooth.conf Sep 20 14:59:51 i found out that qtopia has buggy input fields. Most time you are better off changing the config files manually. :) Sep 20 14:59:56 this way i got SIP working Sep 20 15:00:25 DPThought: tell me more, I was trying to get SIP working... Sep 20 15:00:26 but no audio so far. Sep 20 15:01:00 DPthought have you alsactl restore -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state (or something) Sep 20 15:01:44 jpcass___: jep. i'm not sure i had no sounde because ttp did not work or qtpia uses the wrong audio device. Sep 20 15:01:45 DPThought: there is Settings/Trolltech/BluetoothServices.conf but no Settings/Trolltech/Bluetooth.conf Sep 20 15:02:21 try lsmod | grep snd Sep 20 15:03:10 where is the config file for SIP? Sep 20 15:03:14 bmidgley: ok. stop qtopia. put "[General]"newline "LocalDeviceVisible=true" in Settings/Trolltech/Bluetooth.conf and start qpe /etc/init.d/qpe start &. Maybe that fixes it Sep 20 15:03:28 AH... I did a ipkg upgrade and it broke the kernel modules Sep 20 15:03:37 that was dumb Sep 20 15:03:49 but it happens! Sep 20 15:03:57 maybe a new kernel would fix everything Sep 20 15:04:45 jpcass___: I put in random values in the sip config dialog. Then stoppped qtopia and changed the values in Settings/Trolltech/SIPAgent.conf to sensible data. The biggest problem is t Sep 20 15:05:11 that all strings begin with a space. Sep 20 15:05:59 you could put in you password in plain if you leave the : sign at the beginning. this way you overcome the blanc at the beginning bug here too Sep 20 15:06:52 Same thing with mail btw. Configura mail, edit Settings/Trolltech/qtmail_account.conf remove all blancs from the strings and start qpe... ;) Sep 20 15:06:55 you mean in UserUri? Sep 20 15:07:11 jpcass___: moment i pastebin my config... Sep 20 15:07:28 thanks Sep 20 15:08:37 http://pastebin.com/d578f90e2 Sep 20 15:09:45 hallo Sep 20 15:09:47 as far as i can remember, i put my password in plain without : at the beginning. qtopia must have stored it mack in mime Sep 20 15:10:51 regsters fine. but had no working call yet :) Sep 20 15:11:43 and make sure qtopia is not running while you change the files. it will overwrite them when it is beeing stopped Sep 20 15:13:21 ok, i''l try - is your password coded? because what i see in my file is nothing like what I typed in the interface! Sep 20 15:13:31 received no mail though, since downloading 9k messages was a bit to much for my patience. But it worked so far as it connected the server right. Sep 20 15:13:59 jpcass___: did you stop qtopia? maybe the changes are not yet written back to the file Sep 20 15:14:19 yes it was yesterday.... Sep 20 15:14:24 CM: ping Sep 20 15:14:42 jpcass___: but however. use my template put in your password in plain without the : at the beginnign and try. should work. ;) Sep 20 15:15:35 how do i restart the SIP Agent from console? how to cause register? Sep 20 15:15:59 click on it again Sep 20 15:16:10 is asks if you want to gonfig or register Sep 20 15:16:38 jpcass___: it starts when qtopia ist started. in the sip settings dialog is a option to register. (contect menu or however this is called) Sep 20 15:18:36 the moko is at home and i am sshed in...;-( Sep 20 15:18:55 jpcass___: lol Sep 20 15:18:58 jpcass___: u need a webcam at home Sep 20 15:19:05 and a robot Sep 20 15:19:10 ;) Sep 20 15:19:24 and a robotic stylus Sep 20 15:19:31 300mio usd infusion into palm? why?? Sep 20 15:21:45 ok, i'll try it later... Sep 20 15:28:50 ScaredyCat: pong :) Sep 20 15:29:09 wanna try somehting for me when you get home? Sep 20 15:29:39 I just got in through the door Sep 20 15:29:44 New build? Sep 20 15:30:17 ahh k, no, I was thinking more - ipkg install qtopia-phone Sep 20 15:30:23 :D Sep 20 15:30:31 Hehe.. I see Sep 20 15:31:00 One problem there though.. Don't have the right kernel on my desktop Sep 20 15:31:19 And I'm lazy to recompile it and reboot to get the network routing stuff going Sep 20 15:31:25 ahh Sep 20 15:31:27 updated to 2.6.22.5 and qtopia can see bt again Sep 20 15:31:28 Hmm.. Can scp it over though Sep 20 15:31:47 ya... Sep 20 15:34:50 It's not easy to be color-blind: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1407812867&size=o Sep 20 15:35:49 lol Sep 20 15:35:53 ScaredyCat: Does qtopia use openssh or dropbear? Sep 20 15:36:02 dropbear Sep 20 15:36:10 Ok Sep 20 15:36:11 dropbear Sep 20 15:36:14 hhe Sep 20 15:36:24 * ScaredyCat is a litle slow.. Sep 20 15:36:37 lag cat? :) Sep 20 15:36:37 there's no reason it has to... Sep 20 15:36:53 catalag ? Sep 20 15:37:07 * cjb_ie wonders if a lagging cat is like a lagging jacket Sep 20 15:37:12 scary lag? Sep 20 15:38:31 "ScaredyCat> there's no reason it has to..." ...use dropbear or be slow? Sep 20 15:38:50 use dropbear.... Sep 20 15:38:53 it's not slow... Sep 20 15:39:01 at least not on mine neo Sep 20 15:39:30 no, dropbear is fine. but as i understand much smaller than open ssh. and you can drop functionality Sep 20 15:39:31 cat lagging is something perverts do. Sep 20 15:39:43 Wow, got an sms Sep 20 15:40:00 it doesn't support logging into other boxes via ssh keys iirc (dropbear) Sep 20 15:40:03 CM? Sep 20 15:40:04 * CM is testing qtopia Sep 20 15:40:11 i tried a mms, which in fact is a sms with an url, but that one could not be decoded :( Sep 20 15:40:14 ahh yeah... that works :) Sep 20 15:40:42 ScaredyCat: really? perhaps it's switched off? Sep 20 15:40:52 npe Sep 20 15:41:02 well... it might be Sep 20 15:41:04 in the build Sep 20 15:41:23 that was my initial reason for putting openssh on my neo :) Sep 20 15:42:20 ScaredyCat: What's up with the dialler? Sep 20 15:42:28 I can't input any numbers into it Sep 20 15:42:29 ? Sep 20 15:43:05 oh.. looks like I brok it Sep 20 15:43:28 It deselects the input field when you type a number Sep 20 15:43:34 * CM tries to dial in instead Sep 20 15:43:53 someone already tried a gprs conn? Sep 20 15:45:02 ScaredyCat: Also, there's no /etc/alsa dir Sep 20 15:45:17 look in /etc/ Sep 20 15:45:18 they put the templates to /etc... Sep 20 15:45:28 it's the new kernel Sep 20 15:45:28 :D Sep 20 15:45:29 Ah, ok Sep 20 15:45:35 emdete: no it's my build of it Sep 20 15:46:09 really? alsa-states installes it there also or am i wrong? Sep 20 15:48:26 emdete: not on the kernel they provided Sep 20 15:50:58 ScaredyCat: Ok, managed to get the sound on and make a call Sep 20 15:51:05 But man, to add a contact was hard Sep 20 15:51:11 I don't get the keyboard Sep 20 15:51:18 what was the problem with the dialer? Sep 20 15:51:33 was it user error? Sep 20 15:51:35 The dialer still doesn't work Sep 20 15:51:54 No, but I called in with my other phone, than added that number to my address book Sep 20 15:51:58 and then called it back :) Sep 20 15:52:35 lol Sep 20 15:53:19 Creative solution... Sep 20 15:53:21 How do you erase text with that keyboard? Sep 20 15:53:37 Draw left somehow, but I can't get it to delete Sep 20 15:54:54 Hmm.. Now it kind of locked up. Shouldn't have pressed that green thing in the middle Sep 20 15:55:18 * DPThought is amazed how much they managed to fuck that keyboard up. It's just unusable. (qtopia) Sep 20 15:55:39 * CM tries a qtopia restart Sep 20 15:55:40 * mwester makes note to self: do not press on green things. Sep 20 15:56:16 DPThought: it has potential, though; Sep 20 15:57:43 Needs keys reorganized based on the data-entry box in question, at the least (would be nice if there was a numeric keypad that had all the calculator keys on it, rather than just the phone dialer keys. Sep 20 15:57:49 ) Sep 20 15:58:07 mwester: maybe. but i needed fucking hours to figure out that i could also type words that thing did not know. (pressing letter long) Sep 20 15:58:13 If we could turn off predictive text, it would be easier. Sep 20 15:58:45 But I'll admit that's a personal preference; I can't use any predictive thing on a regular phone, but my kids love it. Sep 20 16:00:33 mwester: predictive is one thing. But if it begins to change letters you already entered correctly... you write a word and suddenly it changes to something completely differtent and you can not fix it. Predictiv on what yiy really typed, ok. nice thing. But knowing better what you typed is just stupid. (my 2 eurocent) Sep 20 16:00:36 But how do you delet a char in it? Sep 20 16:00:49 It just writes more and more crap, and not even the chars you select Sep 20 16:00:51 stoke left Sep 20 16:00:57 Where? Sep 20 16:01:01 stroke right is space Sep 20 16:01:03 That does nothing on my phone Sep 20 16:01:09 over the keyboard Sep 20 16:01:22 Ah, really long strokes worked Sep 20 16:01:32 And how do you write just one char? Sep 20 16:01:34 up and down for other characters too Sep 20 16:01:48 eh? Sep 20 16:01:49 CM: press the letter long Sep 20 16:02:45 Ah, ok Sep 20 16:02:55 Just noticed if I typ es, it writes Ed Sep 20 16:05:02 CM: yea, useless. type everything but common words in the 'press long' method. this letters will not be changed by that predictive smartass junk Sep 20 16:09:40 you can Sep 20 16:09:54 use the 'words' app Sep 20 16:11:49 ok, 5 hours 20 mins before it died Sep 20 16:12:22 35 mins even Sep 20 16:13:15 Did anyone hear anything more regarding the gossip about the new models? Sep 20 16:13:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Dual_SIM]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ambient_light_sensor]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Solar_power]] [[Development_resources]] and other changes Sep 20 16:14:43 ScaredyCat: i'm a bit confused with your builds. i guess caredycat-openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 is the latest image. But which kernel fits to this image? could you maybe make *-latest symlink for the lates files? Loking through them all is dificult because apache dir inex cuts off the filename Sep 20 16:17:00 use http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Sep 20 16:17:09 that puts newest at the top.. Sep 20 16:17:28 so you get the newest image, then scan down for the newest kernel Sep 20 16:17:45 thx Sep 20 16:17:58 I could symlink, but I'm rsyncing atm Sep 20 16:18:45 your status bar should give the full name too... Sep 20 16:20:47 is there a way to increase the size for a dirl isting? Sep 20 16:22:08 ScaredyCat: all colleque of me changed the templete somehow which fixed that. i can have a look how.... Sep 20 16:24:17 how about that ? Sep 20 16:27:27 ScaredyCat: IndexOptions NameWidth=* should work. Sep 20 16:27:47 * ScaredyCat points up ^^^^ Sep 20 16:29:17 but thanks anyway :) Sep 20 16:30:41 ScaredyCat: ah, i see :) Sep 20 16:40:24 ScaredyCat, DPThought: thanks for those hints, now I can actually enter my nick with qtopia :) Sep 20 16:41:33 ? you are on irc with your neo running qtopia? Sep 20 16:41:50 heh, no Sep 20 16:42:23 ScaredyCat: but I tried to enter my nick into the phonebook matching my other sim, the best I could manage was 'material' Sep 20 16:42:33 lol Sep 20 16:42:54 stupid question, but OM wiki doesn't speak about this: on OM could I run an IRC client? Xchat-type? Sep 20 16:43:07 you could have just put the other sim in and copied your contacts from it to the phone Sep 20 16:43:17 * DPThought is amazed. moko has wget but no curl? I thought wget is dead, fat and obsolet. *g* Sep 20 16:43:24 Fradeve87: yes it could... Sep 20 16:43:50 ScaredyCat: what kind of client? Is now possible or is a feature in development? Sep 20 16:43:55 ScaredyCat: hmja, I'm trying to keep it in a known working phone ;) Sep 20 16:44:25 Fradeve87: you could run any existing irc client if you want to, what special support are you looking for? Sep 20 16:44:51 I can attempt to buildit for you Fradeve87 Sep 20 16:44:55 Fradeve87: 640x480 is just good enough to run xchat as it is (if you don't need the configuration dialogs). cmdline clients of course work w/o problem. Sep 20 16:45:14 ok is exactly what I would to know :D Sep 20 16:45:36 is there any IRC client in repos? Sep 20 16:45:52 * CM wants irssi to feel truly at home Sep 20 16:46:18 I'm just building xchat for you Fradeve87... you have to wait for it to build first :) Sep 20 16:46:20 * LarstiQ would vote for irssi as well Sep 20 16:46:30 Sc Sep 20 16:46:33 ssh home and screen -r ;) Sep 20 16:46:44 ScaredyCat: nice, but at now I don't have a Neo :( Sep 20 16:46:52 I'm waiting december :( :( Sep 20 16:46:57 maemo had xchat in a simplified version. i bet this would be easy to port. remove the hildon crap if there is any... Sep 20 16:47:12 * ScaredyCat starts to cry Sep 20 16:47:34 LarstiQ: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/base/irssi_0.8.10-r2_armv4t.ipk Sep 20 16:47:36 ScaredyCat: aww, I'll use it then Sep 20 16:47:45 pH5: ooh! Sep 20 16:48:22 I'll build irssi too :) Sep 20 16:49:00 oh, you have it already Sep 20 16:56:01 Hmm, qtopia totally hanged after a while. Seems like restarting it takes away turning off the sleep Sep 20 16:56:43 can you say that again - this time in English? Sep 20 16:56:45 :P Sep 20 16:58:06 turn off the suspend in power management Sep 20 17:00:41 * bedboi is back (gone 09:17:19) Sep 20 17:08:00 * ScaredyCat dances with wolves Sep 20 17:14:25 Foxtrot, tango, or samba? Sep 20 17:15:11 openmoko: 03thomas * r3021 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Sep 20 17:15:11 openmoko: * data/gtkrc: Sep 20 17:15:11 openmoko: * src/moko-draw.c: (moko_gradient), (moko_draw_box): Sep 20 17:15:11 openmoko: * src/moko-style.c: (moko_style_class_init): Sep 20 17:15:11 openmoko: * src/moko-style.h: Sep 20 17:15:13 openmoko: Add initial support for "border" and "gradient" boolean engine options Sep 20 17:16:18 anyone got a handle on the RF noise problems in the audio path? Sep 20 17:18:59 gsm does not register to the network here. is there a known workaround? It is a long time ago i updated, so im a bit out of touch. Sep 20 17:19:19 registerign via does not work libgsm-tool Sep 20 17:19:29 ups via libgsm-tool Sep 20 17:19:59 SpeedEvil: it would have to be Foxtrot.. Sep 20 17:20:34 DPThought: iirc you work in a faraday cage don't you ? Sep 20 17:22:04 ScaredyCat: not realy. qtopia had a signal :) Sep 20 17:22:05 BTW: Can one change the boot progress bar into something else (text scrolling and telling me, what it actually does)? Sep 20 17:22:32 ipkg remove psplash -forcedepends Sep 20 17:22:36 ipkg remove psplash -force-depends Sep 20 17:22:49 will get rid of the splash Sep 20 17:23:03 ScaredyCat - Ahh. :-) Sep 20 17:23:05 DPThought: must be that anti-faraday option Sep 20 17:24:05 ScaredyCat: hey you compiled that. did you forget to disable this option? *g8 Sep 20 17:24:12 ScaredyCat - le'me try it :) Sep 20 17:24:55 I must have forgotten -anti-anti-faraday Sep 20 17:26:05 ScaredyCat - Do you know by accident, how it updates the progress bar? Sep 20 17:27:12 I'm not sure at what points the updates take place... I either have it completely off or on, depending how I feel... haven't bothered to delve Sep 20 17:27:19 Hmm, strange enough. I lost the whole top panel icons. Sep 20 17:27:48 sure that's not just one of those crashes that happens? Sep 20 17:28:39 Possibly. I don't know. Sep 20 17:29:49 shutdown -r now -- let's see. ;-) Sep 20 17:31:36 again. Sep 20 17:33:40 Oh, great. I locked it up. Sep 20 17:33:49 Without gsm ;o) Sep 20 17:34:43 Add "psplash=false" to the boot arguments will also disable the boot progress splash screen. Sep 20 17:35:27 can i somehow poll gsmd to see in which state it is right no? Sep 20 17:35:54 Elrond: qtopia also enables hardware flow control to talk to the GSM modem, so it has the same lockup issues that we used to have on OpenMoko. Sep 20 17:36:17 mwester - I have removed gsmd. ;o) Sep 20 17:36:28 ... at least from /etc/rc*.d/ ;o) Sep 20 17:36:33 are you running qtopia? Sep 20 17:36:40 No. Sep 20 17:36:54 Ah, ok. I think there are other processes that start gsmd themselves. Sep 20 17:37:20 So you have to rename the actual gsmd binary, or perhaps /etc/init.d/gsmd script Sep 20 17:37:37 (I think the dialer will attempt to start gsmd if it can't connect to it) Sep 20 17:38:21 *arg* Good to know. Sep 20 17:41:56 Okay, yes. It started gsmd somehow. I renamed the binary. Sep 20 17:49:50 * LarstiQ hugs ScaredyCat once again Sep 20 17:50:21 hiya Sep 20 17:56:33 I saw some screenshots of G(PE)² running on the neo. Sep 20 17:56:38 is this faster then OM? Sep 20 17:57:00 hi Sep 20 18:14:22 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Dual_SIM]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Pander]] [[Main_Page]] Sep 20 18:16:48 LarstiQ: ? Sep 20 18:18:31 ScaredyCat: whenever I hit my next qtopia hurdle I just have to scroll back up, reread what you said, and voila, it worksez Sep 20 18:18:50 heheh Sep 20 18:19:17 must be a fluke ;) Sep 20 18:19:37 heh Sep 20 18:20:56 hey ljp Sep 20 18:20:56 ljp: switching the register with up and down strokes wasn't immediately obvious, but I must say it works reasonably well Sep 20 18:23:29 did you mode the .bb files to point at snapshots yet ljp ? Sep 20 18:23:56 s/mode/mod/ Sep 20 18:23:56 ScaredyCat meant: did you mod the .bb files to point at snapshots yet ljp ? Sep 20 18:24:50 ScaredyCat: I've noticed something strange with your image Sep 20 18:25:06 It's like the touchscreen stops working after a while Sep 20 18:25:09 no, that's a mirror you're looking at Sep 20 18:25:11 no, i need to find out why there is only one snapshot Sep 20 18:25:11 Even if I don't let it suspend Sep 20 18:25:17 :P Sep 20 18:25:41 after a lot of use CM or when 'idle; Sep 20 18:25:48 Idle Sep 20 18:25:56 mmm... odd.. Sep 20 18:25:58 Calling in wakes it up Sep 20 18:26:01 And I can answer Sep 20 18:26:03 :O Sep 20 18:26:06 curious Sep 20 18:26:09 Pressing the power button works and I can select things Sep 20 18:26:26 Also, the screen wakes up when I tap it Sep 20 18:26:32 But I can't press anything on the main menu Sep 20 18:26:39 So yes, very odd Sep 20 18:26:43 ljp: the bb file provided also seems to create different images... (content) Sep 20 18:26:51 mmm... Sep 20 18:27:00 Ahh.. Sep 20 18:27:07 Now I know Sep 20 18:27:09 have you recalibrated ? Sep 20 18:27:17 No Sep 20 18:27:24 But if I touch the green icon in the start page Sep 20 18:27:33 That's when eveything stops working Sep 20 18:27:55 I get the green back arrow at the bottom, but I can't click it Sep 20 18:27:56 there's an issue with the little 'list' icon on that page, or the arrow... Sep 20 18:28:00 yes Sep 20 18:28:23 I don;t know why - i think it's a config issue... hence me trying out different combos... Sep 20 18:28:28 Any way to get around it besides restarting qtopia? Sep 20 18:28:49 Btw, ran out of cash on the prepaid sim.. :( Sep 20 18:28:52 but homefully ljp is going to give me all the details of the other build, Sep 20 18:28:57 :) Sep 20 18:28:59 doh! Sep 20 18:29:14 at least you *could* run out... Sep 20 18:29:21 ie can make calls :) Sep 20 18:29:28 Exactly :D Sep 20 18:29:41 I'm roaming atm... it costs me to make and to receive calls :/ Sep 20 18:30:09 thats standard for US Sep 20 18:30:19 non roaming Sep 20 18:30:27 ouch! Sep 20 18:30:38 in US do you pay for both receiving and calling? that is does both count on your "minutes"? Sep 20 18:30:40 ya, I laugh at my family back in the US Sep 20 18:30:51 yeah, "free incoming" is treated like some special feature on some plans Sep 20 18:30:59 that's just wrong Sep 20 18:31:00 that is silly. Sep 20 18:31:00 it's not common Sep 20 18:31:04 Heh, I call most of my friends without paying at all Sep 20 18:31:22 dkr: wtf Sep 20 18:32:08 well, I'm paying for this internet connection to send you this line of text, and you are paying to receive it. :) Sep 20 18:32:49 dkr: I'd make the snail-mail analogy :P Sep 20 18:32:50 but at least in the US calling a mobile doesn't cost more than calling a landline Sep 20 18:33:23 ya, imagine having to pay for a post letter Sep 20 18:33:30 for receiving one Sep 20 18:33:38 dkr: you don't pay if you decide not to pick up I hope? Sep 20 18:34:02 correct. they have lpenty of other ways to rip people off, though, :) Sep 20 18:34:32 so people in the US don't balance who calls whom based on cost I suppose Sep 20 18:49:52 LarstiQ: if you reject the call you usually get charged a minute Sep 20 18:54:30 u_l-lap: meh Sep 20 18:54:44 wtf Sep 20 18:57:15 LarstiQ: this is only if you explicitely reject versus just ignoring the call Sep 20 18:57:30 my stupid phone doesn't have an option to stop vibrating and relock the keypad when the phone is already silent Sep 20 18:57:43 and yet it can do that when I am in normal mode it makes no sense Sep 20 19:21:40 I want to buy an att/cingular sim known to work with the neo Sep 20 19:21:55 how do i go about that Sep 20 19:22:22 sometimes venders indicate the SKU number, but i've not seen the version/vender number listed much Sep 20 19:22:53 anybody here got an extra? Sep 20 19:25:45 orzo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers Sep 20 19:26:16 ScaredyCat, i'm aware of that list Sep 20 19:26:32 it doesnt help me if sellers dont indicate the SKU and vender/version number both Sep 20 19:38:22 ScaredyCat: have you used a gprs service in .nl? Sep 20 19:38:51 I have but atm I'm roaming and haven't ported my settings Sep 20 19:39:18 * LarstiQ is wondering what subscription/prepaid he should get Sep 20 19:48:56 hi one question to the openmoko project. Is it possible to install the software part of openmoko to other smartphone devices than neo?? Sep 20 19:48:56 UdoUdowski: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 20 19:50:20 does someone know how much the 450$ version of gta02 will cost inclusive shipping and taxes to germany? Sep 20 19:50:33 UdoUdowski: look here -> http://planet.openmoko.org/ Sep 20 19:51:25 lostgeek: it is not yet known Sep 20 19:51:39 UdoUdowski: short answer some parts work - but much work remains to even have a working neo1973 version Sep 20 19:52:22 lostgeek: as I assume it will be shipped from within europe (maybe this will be germany), so you might have to pay the 19% VAT and very less shipping costs. will be 420-450€ I guess Sep 20 19:52:23 <__Ace__> ok, just flashed my openmoko with 2007.2, but when booting it stops when the progressbar is full Sep 20 19:52:28 <__Ace__> why and what to do? Sep 20 19:53:11 anybody else have problem that neo audio is picking up rf (or power supply) noise from the modem? Sep 20 19:53:15 ok. think i could buy it :-) Sep 20 19:53:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 what's the santas sleigh package? Sep 20 19:54:03 Writchie: how do you determine that? Sep 20 19:54:25 on calls in the Qtopia the infamous GSM burst are audible Sep 20 19:54:45 webjames: a joke based on the fact that it would get there at christmas? Sep 20 19:54:46 the static cl-cl-cl-cl? Sep 20 19:55:06 audio path is semi-working but unacceptable do to both near-end and far-end echos Sep 20 19:55:29 Writchie: during a call I presume? Sep 20 19:55:47 Writchie: yep same sound here Sep 20 19:55:51 during a call yes - probably also during sms receive Sep 20 19:55:56 dkr: thanks, i hoped that was the case. i'm buying a christmas present for myself Sep 20 19:56:13 this is a common hardware problem but unfortunately somewhat hard to fix Sep 20 19:56:32 webjames: the downside to that is that package delivery gets backed up around christmas Sep 20 19:56:43 <__Ace__> anyone? Sep 20 19:57:05 dkr: not really in US Sep 20 19:57:06 dkr true, that's what i thought the santas sleigh was some sort of special delivery? Sep 20 19:57:07 webjames: plus, that timeline is really a guess ( an educated one, but a guess nonetheless) Sep 20 19:57:29 __Ace__: tried a nand erase? Sep 20 19:57:41 __Ace__: and then reflash? Sep 20 19:57:49 dkr, a christmas release would be nice Sep 20 19:58:03 <__Ace__> nand erase? Sep 20 19:58:08 <__Ace__> no.. Sep 20 19:58:20 thanks for the answers. Have a nice day! Sep 20 19:58:21 don't ever to nand erase! Sep 20 19:58:25 <__Ace__> I dont have this board though Sep 20 19:58:30 nand erase kernel or nand erase rootfs Sep 20 19:58:46 <__Ace__> how do I do that exaclty? Sep 20 19:58:47 nand erase will do exactly that - except may on very recent u-boots Sep 20 19:58:49 ehh.. yeah.. thats what I meant :p Sep 20 19:58:58 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase Sep 20 19:59:09 nand erase = make me a brick please Sep 20 19:59:13 hehe Sep 20 19:59:38 <__Ace__> ok, thanks.. Sep 20 20:01:30 henrikw: Ok you got audible interference from gsm signalling bursts - do you also have echo and receive too low and mic a little too hot? Sep 20 20:02:39 are you guys all testing using qtopia now? Sep 20 20:03:30 ferric: some are playing with it. Sep 20 20:03:31 * CM is Sep 20 20:03:38 Wrtichie: I've only tried to calling to receive "Voicemail" the sound was a little low, cannot give info on echo and hotmic Sep 20 20:04:15 ScaredyCat: Doesn't the screen disable at all if you lock the phone? Sep 20 20:04:19 ferric: it's a little fun to actually use the phone as.. well.. a phone ;) Sep 20 20:04:30 Mine has been locked for 10 minutes and the screen hasn't even dimmed. Sep 20 20:04:41 qtopia version is close to being usable as a phone - but need audio to be sorted and of course power management to service at least 10 hours of standby Sep 20 20:04:43 mmmm.... not noticed ... Sep 20 20:04:46 CM: same here Sep 20 20:05:16 tryign to figure out what is wrong with the dialer Sep 20 20:05:26 CM: pm with the qtopia thingy is basically unusable. Sep 20 20:05:35 The sound was a bit weird too Sep 20 20:05:44 CM: its a pretty old kernel Sep 20 20:05:44 I heard myself too loud, but the other person very low Sep 20 20:05:51 ixs: that's not strictly correct.. Sep 20 20:06:01 I'm using the latest openmoko kernel Sep 20 20:06:05 CM: change the sidetone with aslamixer Sep 20 20:06:13 lower it Sep 20 20:06:38 ScraredyCat: there is also far end crosstalk that the caller hears Sep 20 20:06:57 ScaredyCat: It seems to move in steps of 14.. Either 0 or 14 Sep 20 20:06:59 i'm not sure they are picking up the setting stored in the GSM modem chipset. Sep 20 20:07:02 ScaredyCat: what would be a better description? Sep 20 20:07:26 CM :seems odd... Sep 20 20:07:44 ixs: it works, suspend doesn't Sep 20 20:08:19 ScaredyCat: that's what I said: pm with the qtopia is basically unusable. Sep 20 20:08:34 <__Ace__> cool, is this cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 like telenet? Sep 20 20:08:35 no, it works Sep 20 20:08:40 just not 100% Sep 20 20:08:49 it dims and powers off the screen fine Sep 20 20:08:51 i don't think STR/resume is yet fully working Sep 20 20:09:44 not, it's a bit iffy, you can get it to come back but it's touch and go... Sep 20 20:09:47 ScaredyCat: i haven't got to draw less than 200ma from USB i.e. 1 watt Sep 20 20:10:52 It doesn't seem to dim for me.. Sep 20 20:11:13 CM: mine dims fine that doesn't save all that much power Sep 20 20:11:14 * CM powers down Sep 20 20:11:19 it dimmed for me before I upgraded my kernel, lets see how this one goes Sep 20 20:11:30 Writchie: It did when I wasn't having it connected to USB Sep 20 20:11:43 I noticed that the profiles were different, but I changed them to be the same Sep 20 20:11:51 Anyway, probably my mistake :D Sep 20 20:12:00 yup, still dims Sep 20 20:12:14 CM: mine is connected to USB and still dimming with np Sep 20 20:13:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] Sep 20 20:15:09 Writchie: Yeah, working now. I thin I messed something up. That green thing from the start page had disappered too Sep 20 20:15:19 Worked after a reboot Sep 20 20:16:15 CM: I just locked mine, it turned the screen off ok Sep 20 20:16:31 Yes, I had messed something up Sep 20 20:17:02 * CM must do something about his google reader addiction: From your 110 subscriptions, over the last 30 days you read 7,400 items, starred 28 items, shared 18 items, and emailed 0 items. Sep 20 20:34:11 <__Ace__> does this device charge from the USB when connected to a PC? Sep 20 20:34:29 <__Ace__> and how do I know how charged it is? Sep 20 20:35:00 look at the meter on the device Sep 20 20:35:02 usually Sep 20 20:37:12 __Ace__ - Yes, the neo can charge from a running PC. Sep 20 20:41:13 <__Ace__> something needs to be done with the loading time though Sep 20 20:41:57 something needs to be done with almost everything. Sep 20 20:44:59 <__Ace__> hm, some games are missing in the 2007.02? Sep 20 20:47:06 how do i explicitly tell the cpu to run slower? Sep 20 20:47:23 is there assembler instructions? Sep 20 20:48:45 I left my neo alone for weeks and then charged it and it works Sep 20 20:49:13 i thought there was a problem where it uses up power while turned off and if the battery runs all the way down, it wont be able to charge Sep 20 20:49:20 Is that not the case? Sep 20 20:50:39 I believe that when the battery is empty it can't boot for enough to be able to charge fast, so it can only use the slow charging mode... Sep 20 20:51:23 <__Ace__> having the terminal runing, how do I get the virtual keyboard up= Sep 20 20:51:24 <__Ace__> ? Sep 20 20:51:47 click the keyboard icon in the top bar? Sep 20 20:51:55 __Ace__, there's a space to the right at the top bar Sep 20 20:51:59 to the right of the menu button Sep 20 20:52:08 i dont have a keyboard icon on mine Sep 20 20:52:11 its just white Sep 20 20:52:31 i havent installed any updates though Sep 20 20:52:37 <__Ace__> same here Sep 20 20:52:40 <__Ace__> no keyboard Sep 20 20:52:47 well, you can stil click there, __Ace__ Sep 20 20:52:49 it works Sep 20 20:52:57 <__Ace__> I just get some "open applications" list Sep 20 20:53:02 ya Sep 20 20:53:07 try the empty space to the right of that Sep 20 20:53:32 <__Ace__> nothing Sep 20 20:53:51 __Ace__: or if you have a really old build launch input managr from the applicatons menu Sep 20 20:53:52 <__Ace__> hmm Sep 20 20:53:54 well mess around with the top bar a lot.. you might find it Sep 20 20:56:18 <__Ace__> which one should I use from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories ? Sep 20 20:56:31 <__Ace__> gonna reflash it Sep 20 20:57:25 <__Ace__> openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 or OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-P1-August-Snapshot-20070822-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 ? Sep 20 21:01:04 i dont know, its been a while Sep 20 21:01:07 whatever is the latest Sep 20 21:02:04 <__Ace__> they are both in http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/2007.2/ Sep 20 21:02:57 <__Ace__> although the longer one is 4 seconds later.. Sep 20 21:03:32 todays builds are from ScaredyCat and celtune Sep 20 21:04:04 __Ace__: openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 should be fine. Or scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 (used the scaredycat version last) Sep 20 21:05:20 nlsu2 are from today too Sep 20 21:05:47 <__Ace__> ah Sep 20 21:05:53 <__Ace__> gonna grab them Sep 20 21:18:20 hello Sep 20 21:19:20 anybody knows if I can connect external device to Neo via USB? or is Neo like "external device" to connect to PC? Sep 20 21:22:54 zdanek: it can be both usb-host and client, so you can connect devices to it, or connect it to your pc Sep 20 21:23:05 zdanek, the neo is both, except most external drives will need a powered usb port, and the neo doesnt have one Sep 20 21:23:31 hm Sep 20 21:23:58 at least, usb flash sticks will need power.. a stand alone hard drive with ac power might work Sep 20 21:24:12 GTA02 will be able to supply power though (the minimum 100 mA) Sep 20 21:25:43 many USB gadgets that power themselves will want to see the 5V on the port to recognize they're plugged in, though, so on GTA01 those won't necessarily work either Sep 20 21:26:09 unless you modify an usb-cable and connect a separate power source to it :) Sep 20 21:26:20 yeah of course without external power feeds Sep 20 21:26:30 Mek, how about a wiki howto page for that, eh? Sep 20 21:26:40 so if I enpower usb with 5V it should work? Sep 20 21:26:48 I have a three-pronged cable here, I'd just need to modify/adapter the plugs to have a suitable thingy Sep 20 21:26:52 haven't bothered yet Sep 20 21:27:23 is a wall socket charger available for gta01? Sep 20 21:27:27 and what about debug board - it has 2 usb ports Sep 20 21:27:55 but I can see, both are connected to uplink so only PC can see them, not Neo -is that right? Sep 20 21:28:05 orzo: no, but you can charge it with any usb charger, but only with the slow 100mA speed... Sep 20 21:28:38 orzo: there are some wall chargers that have usb socket so you can connect neo to them Sep 20 21:28:51 I have one with output 500mA Sep 20 21:29:10 it is possible to programmatically tell Neo to take 500 mA from a dumb charger too, though only u-boot can do that at this time and not the Linux kernel Sep 20 21:29:13 teh neo needs a linux/bsd computer in order to charge... it wont even charge from a windows pc Sep 20 21:29:23 so i'm not confident about wall chargers Sep 20 21:30:32 zdanek, that's max output. The Neo won't take 500 mA unless in force fast mode (possible in u-boot, not (yet) Linux, as said) Sep 20 21:30:33 considering teh current low battery life, a wall charger would make it a lot more usable Sep 20 21:33:25 you can add an option to boot menu to enable fast charge Sep 20 21:33:37 even, you cad add it to boot args Sep 20 21:33:40 afaik it only enables it for the u-boot Sep 20 21:33:44 but I might be wrong Sep 20 21:33:49 see uboot in wiki Sep 20 21:36:01 orzo: are you definitely sure that neo is usb master too? Sep 20 21:36:30 I found some descriptions about it's processor and usb part and it was said that this is usb host only Sep 20 21:36:44 but i'm not sure what it fully means Sep 20 21:40:05 its not a fuly compliant master since it doesnt power the port. I've not actually used it as a master myself either. But from what i've read, it is intended to be a master as well (albiet not fully compliant) Sep 20 21:40:45 i've only used the usb port to charge and to be a usb network device for ssh and such Sep 20 21:41:48 ok, the power is not a problem for me, I will solder some power unit but it matters if I can connect for example memory stick Sep 20 21:41:54 okay I'll try to do so Sep 20 21:52:17 morning Sep 20 21:53:15 Writchie|away: poke Sep 20 21:57:13 btw. google phone is official. And it will run linux Sep 20 21:57:27 DPThought: citation? Sep 20 21:57:29 But will it be open. Sep 20 21:57:40 The Motorola A1200 also runs linux. Sep 20 21:58:26 DPThought: what has changed this from strong rumour to fact? URL of the reliable source plesae. Sep 20 21:58:57 http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/19/digitimes-google-will-definitely-launch-its-own-branded-handset/ Sep 20 21:59:10 http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/09/gphone_definite.html Sep 20 22:00:07 SpeedEvil: right. lets hope... Sep 20 22:00:24 thx - I don't doubt it at all - just looking for the "word from the horses mouth", rather than news sites "citing sources" Sep 20 22:00:51 that first link is still just someone reporting something that someone else (who isn't Google) has said. Sep 20 22:01:39 the second is also a second hand report about "shadowy Taiwanese handset makers" saying something. Sep 20 22:01:41 well the word definitely sounded very convincing for me :) Sep 20 22:02:05 there's a reason they put it in quotes. Sep 20 22:02:18 i heard from my pet chipmunk's trainer's 2nd cousin in law's best friend's hair stylist's accountant that google is making a phone Sep 20 22:02:29 'Definitely' does not equate to fact stated from Google. Sep 20 22:02:45 i don't care Sep 20 22:02:56 90% sure is enough for me Sep 20 22:02:57 So your characterisation as "official" is a bit strong for the current situation. Sep 20 22:03:23 surely it's not "official" till Google states it, right? Sep 20 22:03:30 shall i go ask google at the plex this afternoon? Sep 20 22:03:32 I agree with you - it's 99% sure. Sep 20 22:03:36 i'm headed that way anyway... Sep 20 22:03:55 ckueth1: please do - then put it on youtube, showing the google employee's badge in the picture. Sep 20 22:04:05 *then* it would be somewhat official :-) Sep 20 22:04:14 can't. forgot my camera at home Sep 20 22:04:17 they probably have instructions not to confirm or deny. :) Sep 20 22:04:22 true Sep 20 22:04:28 i admit. i had only read the abstract when i wrote this Sep 20 22:04:40 but they probably don't get trained on how to carefully not comment Sep 20 22:04:45 DPThought: no probs - it is a very strong rumour :-) Sep 20 22:04:57 ie. control facial expressions and limit voice stress Sep 20 22:06:41 dkr: they have an NDA. that doesnt cover any specific product. it covers everything google does Sep 20 22:07:05 they can not confirm or deny ANYTHING that isn't already public and officially released info Sep 20 22:07:16 so n8 all Sep 20 22:07:36 gu10 n8 Sep 20 22:07:37 Night. Sep 20 22:07:43 regardless of what you think you may know when they twitch when u ask a question Sep 20 22:07:48 that does not an official statement make Sep 20 22:08:05 yes, i know the nda Sep 20 22:08:08 i've seen the nda Sep 20 22:08:13 i've signed the nda Sep 20 22:08:30 I doubt it would be open anyway, google is in the advertising business after all. :) Sep 20 22:09:00 right - it will be open except for the things which are required to show the ads, and you won't be able to turn those off. Sep 20 22:10:03 yeah, like that'll last. Sep 20 22:10:30 it'll probably be implemented server side Sep 20 22:10:43 Can anyone lend me a hand with getting my Neo online? I followed the manual method on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking but the Neo still can't ping anything except for the host computer Sep 20 22:10:55 your phone must do a bunch of viewing-ad-like-things or your service goes away Sep 20 22:11:07 you don't have to view the ads.... and you don't have to make calls, either Sep 20 22:11:30 abraxa_ - And the host can ping the neo? Sep 20 22:12:00 Ohh Elrond :) Sep 20 22:12:05 Yeah it can Sep 20 22:12:07 ckueth1: but google are not going to sell cheap hardware for an opt-out ad system Sep 20 22:12:10 I can SSH into it just fine Sep 20 22:12:31 you mean you want the neo on the internet? Sep 20 22:12:34 and it isnt? Sep 20 22:12:34 abraxa_: you want something like this http://pastebin.com/me3cc368 Sep 20 22:12:47 they're going try to not do that, indeed Sep 20 22:12:50 plus you need to set /etc/resolv.conf on the neo Sep 20 22:12:51 you can bet that google is the one company with smart enough hackers to actually get an open-but-closed-enough system locked down correctly. Sep 20 22:12:55 abraxa_: dns working? Sep 20 22:13:03 abraxa_ - Ahh. 1) Look at "netstat -rn" on the neo (for routing). And then make sure, your host has neo's-default-gateway as IP 2) make your host do NAT. Sep 20 22:13:12 i.e. such that you need hardware jtag access to unlock it Sep 20 22:13:22 he'll also likely want routing table rules Sep 20 22:13:29 i'm not confident that they'll succeed in doing so, for long. Sep 20 22:13:51 as long as you successfully stop all software-only hacks, then they wouldn't care about the inredibly small group of people who can jtag Sep 20 22:14:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MacOS_X]] [[Main_Page]] Sep 20 22:14:05 but then again, i'm always pessimistic about DRM-ish things Sep 20 22:14:06 folken: Ah, thanks - resolv.conf is set already Sep 20 22:14:33 stop all software-only hacks = write perfectly bug-free software Sep 20 22:15:06 not an easy task Sep 20 22:15:11 agreed Sep 20 22:15:26 You can reduce it damn far. Sep 20 22:15:34 All the banners run as root Sep 20 22:15:42 yes, it is possible to be careful Sep 20 22:15:44 Elrond: Yeah, the route is set up on the Neo just fine, it seems - I don't have NAT on my host yet (no iptables support in kernel atm) but shouldn't the Neo be able to ping my router (same subnet) at least? Sep 20 22:15:57 all the user applications - written by google run as an untrusted user, who can't write to those screen areas Sep 20 22:16:08 the only user-written applications are java Sep 20 22:16:24 (which also run in a JVM in a chroot as the untrusted user) Sep 20 22:16:26 abraxa_ - Your host does bridging?! Sep 20 22:17:17 abraxa_: if its the same subnet on your ethernet as well as on the usb side.. you should add the subnet ot the ethernet card and do a host only route to the neo. Sep 20 22:17:20 Elrond: Neo is 192.168.0.202, host is 192.168.0.200, router is 192.168.0.100 - shouldn't I be able to ping the router from the Neo even without NAT? (and no bridging) Sep 20 22:17:30 And you checksum the root filesystem for an approved image on every boot from read-only RAM. Sep 20 22:17:41 ROM Sep 20 22:17:49 abraxa_ - No. Sep 20 22:18:00 Oh. Sep 20 22:18:13 abraxa: No, not in same broadcast domain. Sep 20 22:18:25 Same subnet on different physcial net := problem. Sep 20 22:18:33 You need either bridging, or tricky routing. Sep 20 22:18:48 s/:=/== Sep 20 22:18:49 What's the best way to go about this then? iptables+NAT? Sep 20 22:19:01 this is why i never get why they opted to default to 192.168._0_ subnet of all things.. Sep 20 22:19:18 abraxa_: that would be at least known to work. Sep 20 22:19:42 Okay, thanks a bunch guys :) Sep 20 22:19:52 * abraxa_ goes off to try getting iptables to work Sep 20 22:20:02 no that will actually not work. The host will not know where to direct the pakets it will want to send to the default route. Sep 20 22:20:49 It might be possible with some sort of proxy-arp trickery and funny routing. Sep 20 22:21:09 abraxa_: don't forget conntrack and nat/masquerade and save you some reboots. I needed three new kernel builds until i found out what i missed :)) Sep 20 22:21:38 But NAT is guaranteed to work, and how to configure it is general knowledge. Sep 20 22:22:23 * DPThought votes for dhcp or linklocal again Sep 20 22:22:54 * folken seconds that. Sep 20 22:23:02 linklocal = zeroconf Sep 20 22:23:12 mdns is allready in there... Sep 20 22:23:28 or rather avaih-daemon. Sep 20 22:24:14 linklocal won't get dns and default gw set up, tho. But fine for ssh and such to the phone. Sep 20 22:25:00 well if you don't have dhcp on your system you probably have no forwarding either :) Sep 20 22:25:08 Point. :-) Sep 20 22:25:09 Lynet: yes thats true. but first it would query for dhcp so you could actually choose on the hostside wheter to provide inet or not. Sep 20 22:26:50 BTW: Is there anywhere a screen"lock" for the neo? So that the screen is off, but the CPU runs normally? And the screen goes only on after AUX-pressing? Sep 20 22:27:05 (I want to put the neo in the pocket, but I need the CPU running.) Sep 20 22:27:32 Elrond: i think 'only dim' and lock phone in the powerbutton menu is that setting. Sep 20 22:27:42 imagine you have multiple phones, all the same ip... ;-) Sep 20 22:28:11 DPThought: as long as they don't bluescreen... Sep 20 22:28:12 folken - I had "No PM" and did "lock phone". It did suspend. Sep 20 22:28:47 hmm... when I run my program as a 'normal' gtk x86 program (but using the openmoko theme) I get completely different icons than when running it in openmoko/qemu... Sep 20 22:28:49 Elrond: sorry wrong info then. Sep 20 22:29:26 folken - No problem. I probably should check the source for this stuff. Sep 20 22:29:36 Mek: That's because the theme doesn't set the stock icons GTK+ uses, so it uses the ones available on your system Sep 20 22:30:13 DPThought: Yeah... currently I'm fighting with iptables not wanting to be modprobe'd because of some missing kernel symbols. Sep 20 22:30:13 hmm... okay... than I just don't understand why STOCK_PREFERENCE results in a heart on the openmoko.. Sep 20 22:30:50 Mek: Maybe because on OpenMoko, the GTK+ stock icons are all replaced by OpenMoko's own :) Sep 20 22:31:58 okay... but than is there somewhere a list of all aailable stock icons on OpenMoko? :) Sep 20 22:35:01 Hello, everyone Sep 20 22:35:46 Heya pavelm Sep 20 22:36:36 I'm trying to get qtopia to play nicely with my scripts etc... Sep 20 22:36:49 ...did anyone figure out how to run scripts from their menus? Sep 20 22:37:02 My backup plan is to launch X when qtopia exists... Sep 20 22:37:29 ...but I can't figure out working xorg.conf (and flashing om just to get xorg.conf seems like an overkill). Sep 20 22:37:47 Is working xorg.conf accessible somewhere? Sep 20 22:37:54 does kdrive even use that? Sep 20 22:39:03 "Unlike the usual XFree86 server, a KDrive server is completely self-contained: it does not require any configuration files, and will even function if no on-disk fonts are available. All configuration is done at compile time and through command-line flags." Sep 20 22:40:38 hmm... too bad I'm using x.org in chroot. Will try to see if there's debian package of kdrive. Sep 20 22:45:19 not there :-(. If someone got x.org to run on openmoko, please send me your xorg.conf :-) Sep 20 22:51:01 pavelm - Hi? Sep 20 22:54:04 hey Elrond Sep 20 22:54:38 Elrond say.. do you run the gta01bv3 which give you bug 567 on 200 or on 266mhz? Sep 20 22:56:23 roh - 200 MHz. Sep 20 22:57:03 Elrond hm.. ok.. and you do not have the flatcable connected? Sep 20 22:57:23 roh - I do not even own debugboard/fpc. Sep 20 22:57:27 because bv3 still has some data and addresslines on the debug connector Sep 20 22:57:30 ok.. Sep 20 22:57:32 strange Sep 20 22:57:48 roh - Note that XorA could reproduce it on bv4. Sep 20 22:58:15 oh Sep 20 23:00:20 I vaguely remember someone else reproducing it too. Sep 20 23:01:19 what bug? Sep 20 23:04:22 Hi, elrond! Sep 20 23:04:22 SpeedEvil - dd if=/dev/mtd2 of=/tmp/kernel.bin && flash not any more accessible. Sep 20 23:04:27 Ah Sep 20 23:04:34 yeah - I hit that sort of thing Sep 20 23:04:41 I have an old kernel Sep 20 23:05:23 Elrond: I reproduced that the other day too. Sep 20 23:06:26 mwester - On bv04-from-tw or Bv04-from-china or gta{fill in} ? Sep 20 23:06:40 * pavelm is trying to get some scripts running on neo with qtopia, but is not too successful. Sep 20 23:07:11 gta01bv4 Sep 20 23:07:25 mwester - from china or taiwan? Sep 20 23:07:49 (shouldn't matter. q1001 shouldn't make a different for this bug.) Sep 20 23:08:02 * mwester opens the case to check... Sep 20 23:09:18 mwester - If you bought it from openmoko.com, it's from china, if you got it free, it's from taiwan. Sep 20 23:09:20 "Hardware assembly in China" -- is that what you're looking for? Sep 20 23:09:35 Yes, it was purchased in the normal fashion Sep 20 23:10:36 Ahh. :) Sep 20 23:10:50 elrond: should there be differences between China and Taiwan versions? Sep 20 23:11:11 pavelm - One transistor. Sep 20 23:11:18 Elrond not completely.. the versions from taiwan have a red pcb. the ones from china a green one Sep 20 23:11:38 roh - Ohh, didn't know that. :) Sep 20 23:11:52 pavelm - So "one transistor" and "other pcb color". Sep 20 23:12:35 Elrond: that transistor does what? Sep 20 23:12:56 elrond: aha, the transistor that turns gsm off? Sep 20 23:13:02 no. Sep 20 23:13:03 * mwester searches the kernel sources for "if (pcb == "green" && data_flow == FROM_FLASH)" constructs... Sep 20 23:13:26 :) Sep 20 23:13:30 that transistor is pulling nReset of the gsm low, but provokes a bug thus Sep 20 23:13:43 pavelm - The transistor, that makes the gsm turn on accidentally. Sep 20 23:14:16 Hmm... so that means that the reset code doesn't actually do anything? Sep 20 23:14:23 Elrond: interesting, is there more information about this? Sep 20 23:14:24 mwester - It happens on taiwan-bv3 too. Sep 20 23:14:29 ie. if you have a red pcb is it useful to remove it? Sep 20 23:14:42 cw666 - It would be useful to remove it, yes. Sep 20 23:14:47 That would explain why it made so little difference while I was messing with gsmd! :-D Sep 20 23:15:01 cw666 - More info: From roh directly, or from "me" as in "roh told it to me and others". Sep 20 23:16:30 roh - Could you reproduce "my" bug on any hardware near you? Sep 20 23:16:47 Elrond: so the red pcb versions have it and that causes the gsm modem to power up by itself? Sep 20 23:17:00 cw666 - Basicly: Yes. Sep 20 23:17:16 Elrond: is there a pic of where on the board it is? Sep 20 23:17:37 cw666 - I don't know of any pic. Sep 20 23:17:51 Hmmm, removing transistor sounds easy :-) Sep 20 23:17:53 Elrond: also, does this transistor mean that poking gsm-pm/power in sysfs will actually power up/down the gsm module? Sep 20 23:18:11 Elrond: well, can you tell us which one it is then by part# or something i can see on the screen printing Sep 20 23:18:19 or even by connection to something i can trace? Sep 20 23:18:24 cw666 - The transistor is not involved in sysfs-power. Sep 20 23:18:48 Elrond: ah ok, so it's just that it powers it up when you insert the battery then i take it? Sep 20 23:19:06 Not really. Sep 20 23:19:08 Let me remember. Sep 20 23:19:14 Ahh, it's the other way round. Sep 20 23:19:25 Okay: Sep 20 23:19:39 - You power up the gsm. Sep 20 23:19:46 - Then you try to go to suspend. Sep 20 23:20:01 - going to suspend gives some glichtes on some lines. Sep 20 23:20:05 That LCD is crazy. I started x.org on it, and now it flickers way too much. Sep 20 23:20:16 - One of those lines is connected (via the q1001) to some port on the gsm. Sep 20 23:20:19 ...like an old tv. Sep 20 23:20:31 - gsm says "huh". And sends some data on the serial link. Sep 20 23:20:40 - cpu wakes up again due to data. Sep 20 23:20:43 - Suspend over. Sep 20 23:21:09 elrond: Hmm, that's bad. Sep 20 23:21:27 In other words: It's not easy / nearly impossible to suspend a Bv04-from-taiwan while the gsm is up. Sep 20 23:21:35 Which is exactly, what you want on a "normal phone". Sep 20 23:21:55 does it _always_ glitch like that, or is there a chance that it works okay? Sep 20 23:22:02 ...we could just retry suspending few times ;-) Sep 20 23:22:25 ...any values for powerconsumption "screen off, as low power as possible, but not suspended"? Sep 20 23:22:42 I got 80mW Sep 20 23:22:46 pavelm - I don't know. Sep 20 23:22:52 Elrond: and the red pcb has the transistor and thr green do not? Sep 20 23:23:00 undervolted to 1.8V, 100Mhz clock, Sep 20 23:23:10 backlight, GSM, bluetooth, GPS off Sep 20 23:23:15 cw666 - That's how I understand roh, yes. Sep 20 23:23:23 Oops Sep 20 23:23:24 80mA Sep 20 23:23:43 Something like that. Sep 20 23:23:51 So, 350mW or so. Sep 20 23:23:53 80mA @ 4V -> 320mW Sep 20 23:24:41 1200mA battery, 80mA => >12hours battery life. Not nice, but comparable to my first phone ;-) Sep 20 23:24:43 That's CPU alone? Sep 20 23:24:51 That's for the whole thing. Sep 20 23:24:56 measured at the battery Sep 20 23:24:57 idle Sep 20 23:24:59 not very useful Sep 20 23:25:02 no gsm powered up Sep 20 23:25:06 so u cant recieve a call or sms Sep 20 23:25:15 GSM powered up adds 15mW or so. Sep 20 23:25:32 mW or mA? Sep 20 23:25:35 Err Sep 20 23:25:47 Sorry, I think that's mA again. Sep 20 23:26:00 SpeedEvil - Any idea on the gps addition? Sep 20 23:26:05 Umm. Sep 20 23:26:25 I got about 50mA - but that's not a state you'd want it to be in. Sep 20 23:26:38 It was just the state after I kill -9'd the gll binary Sep 20 23:26:53 hehe. Sep 20 23:26:58 And with gllin running? Sep 20 23:27:13 (which would make a nice gps logger) Sep 20 23:27:30 From memory - about the same CPU use as mp3 playing - which was about 80% at 100Mhz Sep 20 23:27:32 180mA or so. Sep 20 23:27:55 I have doubts that all the clocks are set optimally Sep 20 23:27:59 and the dividers Sep 20 23:28:16 About 6 hours of gps logging. :) Sep 20 23:28:39 Or rather more if you only take occasional positions. Sep 20 23:29:20 Elrond: It is already very useful as an GPS logger. Sep 20 23:29:22 Okay, I guess I should get some sleep... Sep 20 23:29:32 Well, I like mapping tracks in the wood. I want lots of points. ;o) Sep 20 23:29:44 My experience of the neo GPS has not been great. Sep 20 23:29:46 pavelm - Yeah. :-) Sep 20 23:29:54 It may simply be my poor mounting. Sep 20 23:30:19 but it's most prone to overshoot on decelleration of any GPS I have. Sep 20 23:30:26 I need to do more testing though. Sep 20 23:31:03 As in brake from 40MPH to 0 over 4 seconds, and the track occasionally continues on for 70m or so. Sep 20 23:31:13 speed: it certainly works better than fortuna bluetooth gps... Sep 20 23:31:20 if the cpu uses 80% when playing music... and the same when using GPS - can one use GPS & Music at the same time? Sep 20 23:31:21 how bad is that one? Sep 20 23:31:28 SpeedEvil - I have that same while walking! ;o) Sep 20 23:31:29 andylockran: at 100Mhz Sep 20 23:31:40 sorry.. Sep 20 23:31:45 You walk at 40MPH! Sep 20 23:31:47 Wow! Sep 20 23:31:49 :) Sep 20 23:31:58 hey guys, I seem to be getting an ip address with gprs just fine, but I keep getting host name lookup errors when I try to ping something Sep 20 23:32:11 check /etc/resolv.conf ? Sep 20 23:32:11 fix /etc/resolv.conf Sep 20 23:32:18 Adding the line Sep 20 23:32:21 SpeedEvil: how? Sep 20 23:32:22 nameserver 1.32.3.4 Sep 20 23:32:28 ok Sep 20 23:32:34 where the address is a nameserver you can use Sep 20 23:32:47 SpeedEvil - No, normal walking speed. Like 5km/h or so. Sep 20 23:32:49 how do I know a nameserver I can use? Sep 20 23:32:55 4.2.2.1 Sep 20 23:33:39 Isn't that a root nameserver that won't do recursive queries? Sep 20 23:34:15 mrface: what's your phone provider? Sep 20 23:34:22 t-mobile usa Sep 20 23:34:45 the server ip says it's 10.0.0.1 Sep 20 23:38:11 I had a suspicion that was the problem so I looked for t-mobile nameservers, but nothing I tried made it work Sep 20 23:38:23 should I be able to ping the ip I use as a nameserver? Sep 20 23:38:42 good night Sep 20 23:41:38 Oh isn't linux great sometimes... I install iptables support in the kernel and upon reboot my wlan causes kernel panics when accessed Sep 20 23:41:47 * abraxa_ sighs Sep 20 23:42:49 SpeedEvil - 10m overshot, I'd say. Sep 20 23:45:33 I need to setup a proper mount. Sep 20 23:45:48 I've got a magnetic camera mount sorted for my camera, I can probably put the neo on that. Sep 20 23:46:07 Several hard disk magnets + screws + wood = win. Sep 20 23:46:08 SpeedEvil - I had the neo in my hand, while doing that track. Mostly looks good, but the overshots are crap. Sep 20 23:46:51 If it gets a wrong position, it seems to hold onto it for several seconds in the model. Sep 20 23:47:23 It took about 10s before it merged with my other GPS track. Sep 20 23:47:45 Of course, it's all just software... Sep 20 23:48:26 Which reminds me to continue somewhat with the RE effort. Sep 20 23:49:57 But yes, it's somewhat, what I dislike about gllin: No parameters to configure it. With the sirf3, you have way too many params to change its models. Sep 21 00:11:00 rwhitby: Do you happen to know where on the wiki I can find a list of ipkg feeds? (e.g. yours and ScaredyCat's) Sep 21 00:11:19 Good night people. :-) Sep 21 00:11:25 Nighty night Elrond :) Sep 21 00:13:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] Sep 21 00:41:04 exit Sep 21 00:41:07 oops Sep 21 01:06:48 abraxa_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Sep 21 01:09:09 Thanks :) Sep 21 01:12:46 Mmh... Sam and Max on the Neo... awesome :D Sep 21 01:19:52 I'm having some issues getting openmoko to run in qemu. The image will load in qemu and I am presented with an option to Boot or Factory Reset. Either option attempts to boot an image and then fails with "bad magic number" Sep 21 01:20:15 I have not been able to find a resolution on the wiki, forums, or google. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Sep 21 01:20:15 Jon_yoosic: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 21 01:20:52 Jon_yoosic: Sounds like no kernel has been flashed Sep 21 01:21:11 If it matters, I would be considered an application developer/advanced user. Sep 21 01:22:42 Jon_yoosic: did qemu segfault when you tried flashing a kernel? (i.e. running flash.sh or make flas-qemu-xxx) Sep 21 01:22:52 yes Sep 21 01:23:46 someone really should fix that... as a work-around you can try removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh Sep 21 01:24:39 I'm an app developer, so out of curiosity what does that line do? Sep 21 01:25:12 Also, where does flash.sh live? Sep 21 01:25:35 no idea, but it fixed it for me :P (I think/hope/guess that it is only relevant on an actual device as ti does something with bad-block-tables...) Sep 21 01:26:14 are you using MokoMakefile? than it is in build/qemu/openmoko Sep 21 01:28:09 Mek. I owe you a beer! That got it to boot Sep 21 01:35:24 I'm posted the fix in the discussion page for qemu. Hopefully that helps Sep 21 01:35:39 Whats the difference between make flash-qemu-local and -official? Sep 21 01:37:25 official flashes a prebuilt image downloaded from somewhere, local flashes your local build image Sep 21 01:37:29 Jon_yoosic: local flashes what you just built Sep 21 01:37:43 Jon_yoosic: official flashes the downloaded snapshot Sep 21 01:39:01 hrm the boot seems to have hung Sep 21 01:41:45 How do I get useful errors/debugging info out of qemu ? Sep 21 01:42:59 Jon_yoosic: are you sure the boot is not just very slow? qemu is kinda slower than the real device... Sep 21 01:43:13 seems to get about 3/4 of the way done then hang Sep 21 01:45:01 Wierd, it works now. Sep 21 01:53:02 ooh time to get the alsa/oss wrappers out Sep 21 02:03:39 What is the best source of info for openmoko right now? So far the wiki seems a little out of date (I'll try to add when I can) and the forums seem thin. Sep 21 02:04:09 Jon_yoosic: the mailing lists, this IRC channel, and the wiki, in this order Sep 21 02:04:17 (there is a forum???) Sep 21 02:04:36 Yes. I saw it once and then lost the link. I think it is unofficial Sep 21 02:04:36 there is an unofficial forum that none of the core developers want Sep 21 02:05:10 Its not very good although I am coming at this as an advanced user/app developer so it is still early for the info I want. Sep 21 02:07:00 The forum is not very good i mean. Sep 21 02:07:24 Is there some way to shrink the font size in terminal? Sep 21 02:08:25 erk nevermind i found iot Sep 21 02:14:06 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[SettingsGUI]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Sep 21 02:24:36 thanks for your help cesar, whitby, and Mek Sep 21 02:24:55 if you guys are ever near Indiana I owe you beers **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 21 02:59:57 2007