**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 22 02:59:56 2007 Sep 22 03:14:13 hi there. Sep 22 03:14:40 hey Sep 22 03:22:25 i just tried qtopia, it's not bad Sep 22 03:22:48 btw that framebuffer stuff is so bad. Sep 22 03:23:00 it makes impossible to port gtk code there Sep 22 03:24:10 bedboi: never say "impossible" Sep 22 03:24:17 bedboi: it's just "very hard" ;-) Sep 22 03:24:26 Whats the greenphone like as compared to the neo1973? Sep 22 03:24:45 Jon_yoosic: it's green instead of orange? Sep 22 03:24:56 Jon_yoosic: (dunno, ask on #qtopia ;-) ) Sep 22 03:25:02 Haha Sep 22 03:26:11 I'm flipping through the qtopia site now. If I'm reading it right the greenphone is billed as a testbed to prove things then move it to other hardware. There are some "CYA" warnings about using it as a day to day phone. Sep 22 03:26:45 I was attracted to the Neo and Moko because that pairing is aimed at consumer quality use Sep 22 03:27:59 yeah greenphone isn't being developed to be a consumer product Sep 22 03:28:13 Neo is, even if it's not yet ready for it Sep 22 03:28:21 Jon_yoosic: well, now with qtopia _and_ the neo, they have the best of both worlds Sep 22 03:29:08 Jon_yoosic: which explains quite easily why they went to the trouble to gpl a few more bits (throwing some more bones to the dogs?) and prepare a somewhat working OE recipe Sep 22 03:29:12 I won't rule it out, though. I like the greenphone because it has actual buttons. Sep 22 03:29:28 Jon_yoosic: hey, the neo has TWO buttons! Sep 22 03:29:36 Jon_yoosic: that's more than a Mac mouse! :D Sep 22 03:30:15 Yea, but I've gotten hooked on my Mpx220. I can blind dial most of the people I need to call. No need to wank around with voice commands or look down at the phone Sep 22 03:30:32 Jon_yoosic, we need gesture dials :] Sep 22 03:31:20 Jon_yoosic: a bluetooth mini-keyboard for the neo would be a insane adition Sep 22 03:32:22 * mjr is not convinced qtopia is the best of both worlds, when it limits the world to qtopia stuff, but might install it at some point on the sd for the advertisedly currently better working phone functionality Sep 22 03:32:27 Jon_yoosic: or you could have my tongue-in-cheek suggestion some weeks ago in this channel of getting a full-sized split bluetooth keyboard, flipping one half of it pi radians, and using it like one would play a guitar :D Sep 22 03:32:42 mjr: it's the best of both worlds _for them_ Sep 22 03:32:53 I'm thinking simpler. I want a keypad on the back. I want to be able to immediately feel my phone and dial or make it quiet Sep 22 03:32:57 mjr: I said _they_ have the best of both worlds Sep 22 03:33:39 mjr: the neo as an actually supported hardware, and their software engine on top of it Sep 22 03:33:55 well nevermind, it's half past six here, I might've missed a nuance Sep 22 03:34:12 As much as I like Qt, it's one of these all-encompassing frameworks, which can be quite annoying sometimes Sep 22 03:34:16 mjr: no prob ;-) Sep 22 03:34:26 in fact I'd probably miss a marching band of nuances Sep 22 03:34:54 In all honesty, I'm going to wind up buying whichever mobile platform does what I need it to do. Sep 22 03:35:36 Qt has classes for file management, networking, SQL, and so on... Extremly great when you want to make an app working on the three currently dominating platforms, but dead weight when you are only interested on one of them (perhaps unless the one is windows and its insane win32 API; Qt's api is much saner) Sep 22 03:35:42 Right now the Neo is a bit behind on stability, a little high on cost, but it seems like it has the least amount of "gotchas" Sep 22 03:36:00 Jon_yoosic: er... a bit behind? Sep 22 03:36:12 * cesarb points at gsmd Sep 22 03:36:19 * Jon_yoosic has only used the VM Sep 22 03:36:32 Jon_yoosic, I'm half asleep but are you sure you're talking about the Neo (as in a physical phone) Sep 22 03:37:10 No I'm wrong, I mean OpenMoko. And I have only used it in qemu, I should explore more before being too hard on it. :D Sep 22 03:37:18 Jon_yoosic: as for the gotchas, other than GTA01's GPS chip and its closed GSM chipset, there very few caveats indeed Sep 22 03:37:45 Jon_yoosic: (oh, there is the bluetooth wakeup issue too... until someone manages to make one of the proposed hacks work to fix it) Sep 22 03:37:51 AFAIK greenphone, aside from not being intended as a consumer phone at all, also costs more and needs at least some closed kernel module stuff Sep 22 03:38:22 anyway, more power to the trolls for porting and freeing qtopia, but I hope it doesn't splinter the community too much Sep 22 03:38:33 and with that cheery comment, I'll crash Sep 22 03:38:40 See I'm coming at it as an application developer. I could care less about the hardware as long as it has the features I need,decent performance, and good drivers. Sep 22 03:39:22 I want to be able to write my own GPS based apps (rally navigation), use WiFi, and have a proper unlocked carrier neutral phone. Sep 22 03:39:25 I personally think the effect of drawing more people to the community will be greater than any splitting effect it has. And they also use OE and parts of the OM base non-GUI framework... Sep 22 03:39:56 Jon_yoosic: my perspective is closer to a kernel developer... closed hardware tends to annoy me Sep 22 03:40:32 will the GTA02 get any advantage from faster sd cards? Sep 22 03:40:41 I know that open hardware usually leads to better drivers so I support it when I can. Sep 22 03:40:46 e.g. a sandisk ultra vs standard sandisk Sep 22 03:41:31 Does moko mimic the windows mobile contact lookup? Sep 22 03:42:25 Where you just start typing and it does the partial matching? Sep 22 03:43:03 i got to many devices, i have to hire someone to actually use 'em Sep 22 03:43:16 what's the pay like? Sep 22 03:44:02 ehehe Sep 22 03:44:19 it depends, i'll pay a lot for the h5455 user Sep 22 03:44:39 the voodoo to make it start when the battery drains completely it's so difficult to perform Sep 22 03:44:48 s/it's/is Sep 22 03:45:19 * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks in Sep 22 03:45:33 bedboi: You just need better voodoo dolls. Sep 22 03:45:48 yep, actually i'm not so good with voodoo. Sep 22 03:45:56 have you tried drinking more? Sep 22 03:46:00 i should take some course Sep 22 03:46:20 bedboi: More of the little pins. Just try more of those. Sep 22 03:46:29 Its not as effective as voodoo but the hardware problems don't seem so bad after a few pints. :D Sep 22 03:46:31 Anyone actually working on the damned power crap? Sep 22 03:46:58 HistoryOnTheRoad: i would try to. Sep 22 03:47:00 Jon_yoosic: I think that is true of any problem, not just openmoko type ones. :P Sep 22 03:47:03 btw i just got the phone Sep 22 03:47:44 I've had the phone for a bit. I was lazy, and used the Mac flasher, but I can't figure out how to flash the 2007.2 image on to it. Sep 22 03:48:05 So, I've built a shiny new Debian box which will hopefully help :P Sep 22 03:48:12 bedboi: Congrats, btw. Sep 22 03:48:15 :) Sep 22 03:48:18 thanks man Sep 22 03:49:15 Does anyone know what the core team is working on now? Sep 22 03:49:37 Testing the 02 stuff, shipping, fixing the mailing list? :P Sep 22 03:49:50 I'm just kidding, really. Sep 22 03:51:40 * bedboi checks the /sys dir Sep 22 03:52:15 Sys is just extra stuff. I deleted most of that. Sep 22 03:52:38 (Ok, I'm either overtired or really sarcastic now. Probably the former) Sep 22 03:53:31 anyone knows how to know what is the current draining/charing rate? Sep 22 03:54:16 bedboi: I don't, but you could map it by getting the current charge level. Sep 22 03:56:38 is there some way to mount the jffs image in my host OS? Sep 22 03:57:59 Jon_yoosic: Possible, if your host OS supports jffs file system. Sep 22 03:58:48 usually it's of the form ... "mount -t jffs /path/to/jffs /mount/point" ... but might vary from distro to distro Sep 22 03:59:10 ok so I just need to man and info my way through mount options. Thanks for getting me started Sep 22 04:02:32 No probs Sep 22 04:04:02 Didn't you need some special mtd thingy to mount jffs2 images? Sep 22 04:04:17 (since they cannot be used as normal block devices due to the OOB data) Sep 22 04:10:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro#IRC - this looks like how to mount it Sep 22 04:10:43 Edgy is having issues with the insmod blkmtd command tho Sep 22 04:16:08 ah well its late. thanks for the help. good talking to everyone. Sep 22 04:16:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Navigation]] Sep 22 04:58:49 morning all Sep 22 04:59:08 morn Sep 22 05:00:02 so...followed this article at the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Setting_Up_a_Local_Overlay Sep 22 05:00:30 getting an error that BBFILE_PATTERN_(local/upstream) not defined...any ideas? Sep 22 05:02:29 Sup3rkiddo: these are old Sep 22 05:02:35 Sup3rkiddo: they are for 2007.1 Sep 22 05:03:01 Sup3rkiddo: looks like they didn't copy the changes I made to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay for 2007.2 Sep 22 05:03:14 cesarb, oh...dang...i did remove the oe/packages in site.conf since thats not applicable anymore Sep 22 05:03:24 cesarb, thanks Sep 22 05:04:08 Sup3rkiddo: not only you had to remove that, you also had to add the parts 2007.2 doesn't add anymore (since they are not applicable since it doesn't use an overlay anymore...) Sep 22 05:04:43 cesarb, okie dokie..well the link you just gave works, right? Sep 22 05:05:06 Sup3rkiddo: it's what I'm using, actually Sep 22 05:05:26 Sup3rkiddo: the one in the crash course page was copied from mine, back when it was for 2007.1 Sep 22 05:05:41 cesarb, hehe ok..then it should work..if it doesnt i know who to catch..=) Sep 22 05:06:05 Sup3rkiddo: when 2007.2 became official in mokomakefile, I redid my work and added it to my page... but didn't change the crash course page, since it was to be rewritten soon (back then) Sep 22 05:06:27 cesarb, oh, someone should change that.. Sep 22 05:06:54 * Sup3rkiddo has a reputation for screwing up wiki pages Sep 22 05:14:34 mickey|bbiab: I tried committing the renamed icons but got a permission error - how should I proceed? Sep 22 06:15:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Navigation]] Sep 22 06:46:13 can anyone tell me whats possibly wrong with the given bb...build fails while do_compile...uses distutils Sep 22 06:46:14 http://rafb.net/p/BYWI4669.html Sep 22 06:46:36 | /home/sudharsh/Projects/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin/python: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory Sep 22 06:46:36 | FATAL: python setup.py build_ext execution failed. Sep 22 06:46:47 setup.py is present btw Sep 22 06:56:39 hi all, hows the project going? Sep 22 07:32:32 how can i check the battery level? i mean in some /proc or /sys file Sep 22 07:34:24 morning Sep 22 07:37:03 morning :) Sep 22 07:37:25 bedboi: Is "cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/battvolt" good enough? Sep 22 07:38:00 thanks Sep 22 07:55:26 is the only way to xcompile an application to have oe? Sep 22 07:55:30 damn that stuff is so huge Sep 22 07:55:42 and it takes a lot of time Sep 22 07:58:03 bedboi: Maybe try the debian toolchain or scratchbox? Sep 22 07:58:35 bedboi: You could try letting OE build the toolchain only and use it from then on Sep 22 07:59:01 Just bitbaking one app is pretty quick Sep 22 07:59:22 if you dont need to link to X there is a toolchain on qtopia.net that will work Sep 22 08:02:19 CM: yep i just would need to bitbake an application i'm writing Sep 22 08:02:33 well, quick is relative Sep 22 08:02:41 :) Sep 22 08:02:52 compiling the xcompiler is slow :) Sep 22 08:03:04 * bedboi gets the external drive Sep 22 08:03:12 damn finite size devices Sep 22 08:04:18 i guess i'll need some 3 or 4 gigs for that Sep 22 08:04:38 CM: btw i have scratchbox installed Sep 22 08:05:05 I've never tried scratchbox Sep 22 08:08:58 CM: is it http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile good for starting? Sep 22 08:09:24 in my opinion, it's the best. Sep 22 08:09:28 bedboi: Yes, by far the easiest way Sep 22 08:09:30 rwhitby: :P Sep 22 08:09:40 bedboi: rwhitby wrote it :D Sep 22 08:10:33 rwhitby: Talking about the makefile, how do I force monotone to overwrite all the changes I've done and just use the latest oe stuff? Sep 22 08:10:49 I've been playing around a bit too much with some recipies.. ;) Sep 22 08:11:01 mtn revert Sep 22 08:11:15 there's probably a recursive switch Sep 22 08:11:44 Ok, I'll look around Sep 22 08:17:03 * rwhitby starts a MokoMakefile build from an empty directory on a Debian Etch machine Sep 22 08:22:28 * ScaredyCat spanks CM for not using a local overlay Sep 22 08:22:57 rwhitby: i'm doing it on an unstable one Sep 22 08:23:38 ScaredyCat: Ohh.. More! :-P Sep 22 08:24:22 meh! Sep 22 08:28:15 ScaredyCat: "meh" is exactly what I'm thinking, too. :) Sep 22 08:28:37 :) Sep 22 08:29:15 ScaredyCat: btw, the version of ScummVM in your ipkg repo... is it modified in any way or is it just cross-compiled for the Neo? Sep 22 08:29:42 not modified iirc... Sep 22 08:29:53 but it should be in oe too... Sep 22 08:29:59 Ah Sep 22 08:30:04 ie anyone can build it Sep 22 08:30:16 you should get version... Sep 22 08:30:39 scummvm_0.9.1.bb Sep 22 08:30:50 It would be tons more usable if it would be altered a bit in regards to mouse usage - I suppose no one is working on that? Sep 22 08:31:16 mouse usage? Sep 22 08:31:47 what's wrong with it atm ? Sep 22 08:32:13 Yeah. What I mean is that you can only move the mouse cursor by clicking at the same time - which is not always what you want in this kind of RPG Sep 22 08:33:15 oh... ok, I've only ever played monkey island, indiana jones, zak... Sep 22 08:33:34 you must be playing more complex games ;) Sep 22 08:33:36 has the libsdl-net problem been fixed yet? Sep 22 08:35:25 ScaredyCat: On the Neo? I wonder how you managed to do that. Imagine there's an item on screen that you want to inspect by hovering over it - you'd have to click-and-drag. If you were to just hit the touchscreen you would move the cursor *and* click on the item, even if you didn't want to Sep 22 08:35:37 rwhitby: What libsdl-net problem? Sep 22 08:35:54 http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2923 Sep 22 08:36:14 rwhitby: Sorry, no clue :) Sep 22 08:36:19 with monkey islany you just click 'use' click on the object then click on the target Sep 22 08:36:23 island Sep 22 08:36:47 ie use x with y Sep 22 08:36:58 Hmm, I see Sep 22 08:37:04 Okay, these would be usable indeed Sep 22 08:44:31 http://www.ploetzli.ch/forumtst/fix-libsdl-net.patch is going to be applied by koen to fix the libsdl-net problem Sep 22 08:49:03 ScaredyCat, is your sep21 build any good? Sep 22 08:49:27 still has gsmd issues for openmoko build Sep 22 08:49:31 qtopia works Sep 22 08:52:00 ScaredyCat: what's stopping openmoko to place calls? Sep 22 08:52:04 is it gsmd? Sep 22 08:52:16 i don't have any idea about the status of the project Sep 22 08:52:30 gsmd seems unstable, it takes down the top panel etc.. Sep 22 08:52:57 there are some fixes that are supposed to make it wokr a bit better but I've had no real luck wiht it Sep 22 08:53:01 ScaredyCat: why not using the qtopia stuff Sep 22 08:53:07 does it rely on that? Sep 22 08:53:12 no Sep 22 08:53:17 ah damn Sep 22 08:53:27 they use some code they have written Sep 22 08:53:54 yes, they have their own gsm interfacing... Sep 22 08:54:00 ScaredyCat: but, is gsmd worth? Sep 22 08:54:03 alsthough... now that it's gpl :) Sep 22 08:54:10 i mean, wrt to the implementation they have Sep 22 08:54:32 it works in a different way... Sep 22 08:54:46 different, what you mean? Sep 22 08:54:54 the qtopia stuff is fairly integrated when running... Sep 22 08:54:59 Does removing the console option in the uboot mean you can't connect to uboot over USB any more? Sep 22 08:55:07 ScaredyCat: it's damn fast Sep 22 08:55:13 you could probably lift out some of hte gsm side code Sep 22 08:55:19 fast? Sep 22 08:55:30 yes it is Sep 22 08:55:35 at least on my neo Sep 22 08:55:39 qtopia? Sep 22 08:55:41 it seems very responsive Sep 22 08:55:43 yep Sep 22 08:55:56 i tried the latest openmoko release Sep 22 08:55:59 yes, it's useing framebuffer.... Sep 22 08:58:11 there's some mystery about Gtk+ Sep 22 08:59:05 one major mystery is: Why don't they spawn a thread when a GtkFileChooser widget is shown? Sep 22 08:59:10 it is so stupid Sep 22 08:59:20 something that i really can't understand Sep 22 08:59:22 gcb77: From what I understand, removing that option prevents you from using the serial console of the debug board Sep 22 09:00:20 ~lart PulseAudio Sep 22 09:00:21 * apt frags PulseAudio with his BFG9000 Sep 22 09:00:28 Good bot. Sep 22 09:01:56 I'm trying to set up the dual env, with qtopia and OpenMoko Sep 22 09:24:39 * bedboi is away: sleeping Sep 22 09:25:07 Good night, bedboi Sep 22 09:28:52 anyone here that can give me any pointers on booting from the SD card? Sep 22 09:31:55 gcb77: Did you check the wiki article already? Sep 22 09:46:19 abraxa_: yes, I followed the steps. It seems like an error flashes by and then it starts up booting from the flash Sep 22 09:47:49 The only thing I wasn't clear on is if I needed to copy the img file to a folder called /mnt/moko/boot/uImage/, or if /mnt/moko/boot/uImage should be the file Sep 22 09:48:21 and /dev/ttyACM0 does not show up any more when I start in uboot Sep 22 09:50:09 good morning Sep 22 09:50:29 gcb77: Judging from "GTA01Bv4 # setenv sd_image_name uImage" I would assume that uImage is a file Sep 22 09:50:49 So it'll load uImage located in /boot/ Sep 22 09:51:27 doh! that's it... I mounted it under /mnt not /mnt/moko... Sep 22 09:51:33 thank you Sep 22 09:53:34 Awesome :) Sep 22 09:57:19 anyone seen *CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include* when building a package with bitbake? Sep 22 09:57:47 (using autotools) Sep 22 09:59:08 jpcass: means a problem in configure.in caused cross compiler to look in /usr/include which is BAD (tm) Sep 22 09:59:35 jpcass: whatever package generated that needs investigated and have its EXTRA_OECONF improved or its configure.in fixed Sep 22 10:00:00 hallo Sep 22 10:00:15 XorA|gone: ok, I'll look into it, can you point me to a package that had this and was fixed??? Sep 22 10:00:25 xchat does that Sep 22 10:00:49 jpcass: libsdl-net recently :-) Sep 22 10:01:13 * jpcass notes that the mpd package had a compile_prepend action which replaces /usr/include with ${STAGING_DIR} using sed ... Sep 22 10:01:19 jpcass: its often a needed --with-blah=${STAGING_INCDIR} or shut argument that is needed Sep 22 10:03:13 * XorA|gone needs brekkie Sep 22 10:04:26 XorA|gone: I dont see a solution in libsdl-net; nothing there affects the configure stage or EXTRA_OECONF ? Sep 22 10:05:52 jpcass: if you are not familiar with autotools debugging I suggest you file a bug with the log Sep 22 10:06:11 jpcass: autotools is a bitch, but gets predictable when youve done it a lot Sep 22 10:06:31 autotools.bbclass sets --includedir=${includedir} Sep 22 10:06:50 i coudl use EXTRA_OECONF to override that with --includedir=${STAGING_INCDIR} ? Sep 22 10:07:06 I'm makeing a new recipe, its not an error in an existing package Sep 22 10:07:46 jpcass: no, dont undo anything autotools.bbclass does Sep 22 10:08:16 jpcass: you need to go through configure script and find out why /usr/include was referenced, then fix that in configure.in Sep 22 10:08:35 in temp/run.do_configure.25655 i see *export includedir="/usr/include"* ... Sep 22 10:08:40 jpcass: but sometimes its as simple as using a --with-blah argument to just point the test at the right directory Sep 22 10:08:57 XorA|gone: ok, maybe this export includedir is explicit in configure.in ... Sep 22 10:09:26 jpcass: your on the wrong path Sep 22 10:09:41 * XorA|gone bangs the turntable so jpcass jumps to another track :-D Sep 22 10:09:49 but its paved with yellow bricks... Sep 22 10:10:56 jpcass: configure is a load of tests, badly written configure.in files tend to just hardcode finding /usr/include/blah.h in them, look for tests that do this, then examine which configure argument affect that test Sep 22 10:11:49 but now Im starving and need food urgent :-D Sep 22 10:11:54 ugh: configure.in syntax confusing.... jpcass please return to square one. Sep 22 10:12:00 get food ! Sep 22 10:13:09 jpcass: Mind pastebin-ing your configure.in/.ac and src/Makefile.am? Sep 22 10:14:56 i think this is the offending part of configure.in: http://pastebin.ca/706862 Sep 22 10:15:27 zx spectrum emulator is searching for its libspectrum library...they are two seperate packages... Sep 22 10:16:12 so I need -with-libspectrum-prefix=${STAGING_INCDIR} ? Sep 22 10:16:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[DECT]] [[DECT/de]] [[GAP]] [[CAT-iq]] Sep 22 10:17:20 or maybe just STAGING_DIR, it looks like it might want to find .h and library ... Sep 22 10:18:40 jpcass: I'm not so sure. If --with-libspectrum-prefix isn't given then it won't look in /usr/include either Sep 22 10:20:51 yes... here is some relevant output from config.log : http://pastebin.ca/706867 Sep 22 10:21:33 the libspectrum.h file is actually in -I/home/john/projects/om/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/include Sep 22 10:21:45 Mind sharing the configure.in file in its entirety? Sep 22 10:22:22 http://pastebin.ca/706869 Sep 22 10:22:26 Thanks :) Sep 22 10:23:25 Have a look at lines 69~71 Sep 22 10:23:46 $prefix is usually /usr if not supplied otherwise Sep 22 10:23:57 So these lines set CPPFLAGS="/usr/include" Sep 22 10:24:08 ...-I/usr/include, I mean Sep 22 10:25:11 so I should have --with-local-prefix=${STAGING_DIR} ... Sep 22 10:25:22 in EXTRA_OECONFS Sep 22 10:25:38 Yep :) Sep 22 10:26:37 i'll try it.... Sep 22 10:32:11 well, it got past configure ... do_compile... ;-) thanks guys! Sep 22 10:32:25 Great :) Sep 22 10:34:53 I don't want to sound very anxiously, but... any news about GTA02? :) Sep 22 10:36:15 Nope. Sep 22 10:36:23 December is the latest official word Sep 22 10:37:20 SpeedEvil: do you remember when Oct was announced as the official word? it'd be interesting to do a slip rate analysis (i.e. is it 2 months slip in 2 months?) Sep 22 10:38:04 at work, when we have a month per month slip rate, we start to stop believing anything the original estimator says :-) Sep 22 10:40:58 rwhitby: history on [[Neo1973]] Sep 22 10:42:29 of course, we have no idea whether the october date was an engineering estimate, or just a marketing date ;-) Sep 22 10:42:52 rwhitby: mickey|bbiab says marketing :> Sep 22 10:43:24 PBeck: and is Dec another marketing date? Sep 22 10:44:07 rwhitby: mickey|bbiab says that is realistic ... i hope :( Sep 22 10:44:21 * rwhitby has nothing against marketing dates - sometimes they are required to hold onto a market window Sep 22 10:44:39 rwhitby: i think thats a negativ press for the openmoko project ... Sep 22 10:45:04 slips are never bad press, compared to releases that don't work. Sep 22 10:45:32 say. htc devices, does OM run on them at all or is that just a silly hack that someone needs to do? Sep 22 10:45:32 xcasex: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 22 10:45:46 yes of course, but without delayes would the organisation better Sep 22 10:46:09 xcasex: hack ;) Sep 22 10:46:20 PBeck: lucky me.. i guess ;_; Sep 22 10:46:44 xcasex: ;) Sep 22 10:47:43 rwhitby: why are the release dates so short term? Sep 22 10:48:18 why we not add a few monthes? Sep 22 10:48:50 has anyone tried putting openmoko and qtopia both on their neo? is it just ipkg install lots of stuff from the moko build over the qtopia rootfs? Sep 22 10:50:50 what does the inherit line in the local.conf do? Sep 22 10:51:10 it adds classes to be inherited for all targets Sep 22 10:52:08 jpcass: okey, so why is it devshell for x86 and rm_work for gta01? Sep 22 10:52:26 who said it's devshell for x86? Sep 22 10:52:45 both of those are optional and can be used for either Sep 22 10:52:59 rwhitby: what is better? the wiki told me Sep 22 10:53:02 dont know why, but devshell is a class that allows you to get interactive with the build, and rm_work removes the build/tmp/work directory contents once the ipkg is made to save space Sep 22 10:54:12 thx Sep 22 10:54:43 if you want to keep the sources and object files etc in build/tmp/work, comment out that inherit rm_work (I do) Sep 22 10:55:58 alright to get the neo access the net, what do i have to put in /etc/resolv.conf, nameserver 4.2.2.1 will do? Sep 22 10:59:28 point it to a valid nameserver, your broadband provider will have given you two (usually) Sep 22 11:00:38 jpcass, i forgot them, so my home box has 4.2.2.1 Sep 22 11:01:02 and i presume 192.168.0.200 should be made the gateway? Sep 22 11:01:26 if it works for the machine neo is plugged into it should work for nei Sep 22 11:01:29 s/nei/neo/ Sep 22 11:01:30 jpcass meant: if it works for the machine neo is plugged into it should work for neo Sep 22 11:01:52 (as long as that machine is routing for the neo, or natting) Sep 22 11:02:43 hmm...isnt working,,, Sep 22 11:03:02 how do i get machine nat to the neo then? Sep 22 11:03:05 you need to tell your main box to forward the packets Sep 22 11:03:20 like this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Sep 22 11:04:26 this should help i guess http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Mobile_development ? Sep 22 11:04:29 brb then Sep 22 11:06:08 when I try to compile the devel-image it breaks of and tells me it couldn't connect to znet.org Sep 22 11:06:32 sry, I mean zlib.net of course Sep 22 11:07:27 can anyone help me? Sep 22 11:08:19 I can download the file manually, no problem.. Sep 22 11:20:53 edistar what is do_fetch saying about it? Sep 22 11:24:35 woah zx spectrum running on my neo ! Sep 22 11:25:05 jpcass: congrats! screenshot? Sep 22 11:27:06 mickeyl: how can i get a screenshot (just running X) from console? Sep 22 11:27:22 not running whole openmoko stack, just Xfbdev Sep 22 11:27:31 oh Sep 22 11:27:34 let me dig out the wiki page Sep 22 11:27:50 cool, sound is perfect ;-) Sep 22 11:27:59 need keyboard.... Sep 22 11:28:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Screen_Shots Sep 22 11:28:19 or gpe-scap, if you have it installed Sep 22 11:32:58 anyone knows a good introductory book about programming the arm920t? Sep 22 11:33:48 http://www.johnkerry.plus.com/neo/neo-zxspectrum.png Sep 22 11:35:14 http://www.johnkerry.plus.com/neo/manic.png Sep 22 11:42:53 mickeyl: hey, I'm some approximation of alive now :) Would you like to chat about things you need in OHM? Sep 22 11:43:21 hi robtaylor. unfortunately i'm in a hurry since I'm leaving to Portugal for two weeks tomorrow Sep 22 11:43:29 robtaylor: lets talk when i'm back Sep 22 11:43:35 (it's a real vacation! :) Sep 22 11:43:41 mickeyl: sure, whenever's good for you Sep 22 11:43:45 cool, thanks Sep 22 11:43:46 mickeyl: you lucky lucky man Sep 22 11:43:48 hehe Sep 22 11:44:04 * robtaylor looks up 'vacation' in the dicstionary Sep 22 11:45:04 I seem to have forgotton what it means... ;) Sep 22 11:46:03 Manic Miner? haha good times Sep 22 11:46:54 jpcass: that's really cool :) Sep 22 11:47:01 got a keyboard up and running : http://www.johnkerry.plus.com/neo/manic-running.png Sep 22 11:47:13 we need some customised input method Sep 22 11:47:19 and a 320x240 screen mode Sep 22 11:47:24 and it will be excellent Sep 22 11:47:28 jpcass: Hehe.. Nice Sep 22 11:47:35 sound and performance are great Sep 22 11:48:18 hehe Sep 22 11:48:20 well, qvga is achievable, but no room for on-screen keyboard if you need it then Sep 22 11:48:20 pretty cool! Sep 22 11:48:29 * mjr luckily has his bt one Sep 22 11:48:31 qvga + bluetooth gamepad Sep 22 11:48:52 yeppers Sep 22 11:49:03 can anyone point me to how to get qvga? needs some kernel tweaking? Sep 22 11:49:21 mickeyl, yeah, is qvga in moko kernels yet? Sep 22 11:49:28 Are any of the xbox360 or ps3 wireless gamepads bluetooth? Sep 22 11:49:32 i think most of it is finished Sep 22 11:49:34 iirc Sep 22 11:49:34 there have been some raw patches around at some point Sep 22 11:49:38 at least Sep 22 11:49:40 stefan_schmidt would know for sure Sep 22 11:49:49 righto Sep 22 11:50:11 does stefan sometimes visit irc? Sep 22 11:50:20 mickeyl - Hi! :-) Sep 22 11:50:27 morning Elrond Sep 22 11:50:32 jpcass - Stefan is often around. :) Sep 22 11:50:32 stefan has a broken arm right now Sep 22 11:50:41 which is why he probably isn't there that often Sep 22 11:51:08 Oh no! Apple is playing hardball. Sep 22 11:51:14 I'm sorry to find it initially a bit funny, but "broken arm" doesn't ring the right bell for me here at first Sep 22 11:51:26 is there any way of piping keyboard event on an ssh console session into a window in X ? Sep 22 11:51:35 mickeyl - Huh. Wish "Gute Besserung", if you talk to him. :-) Sep 22 11:51:37 (ie: can i use my pc keyboard to control the miner?) Sep 22 11:51:49 jpcass, you can use things like x2x for remote control Sep 22 11:51:58 or synergy Sep 22 11:52:17 anyway, yeah, pikaista paranemista to stefan Sep 22 11:54:27 thanks guys Sep 22 11:54:43 typing is slow with my left hand... Sep 22 11:55:27 stefan_schmidt: What happened? Sep 22 11:55:51 CM: Snowboarding in a funpark Sep 22 11:56:21 Heh, should have guessed. Must be one of the most common reasons, at least here in Sweden. ;) Sep 22 11:56:41 jpcass: For the qvga patches: http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/patches/LCM-QVGA/ Sep 22 11:57:20 thanks stefan! hope the arm is not too painful Sep 22 11:57:21 so gsmd is broken?...me needs to test an outgoing call Sep 22 11:57:28 jpcass: That's how the datasheet described it. But it never really worked for me Sep 22 11:58:15 CM: I broke mine in .de :) Needed a ski hall for it. Sep 22 11:59:01 jpcass: One test would be to use the real fbset instead of the busybox fbset for some testing Sep 22 11:59:37 stefan_schmidt: ok, will do - what kind of not really working are we talking about? Sep 22 12:00:30 hmm, QVGA means usable video playback :-) Sep 22 12:00:38 mickeyl - BTW: Can I ask you a few questions about OE? Sep 22 12:00:42 (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: OpenExpo 2007 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/09/22/openexpo-2007/ Sep 22 12:00:43 jpcass: Strange colors or effects when playing with it. Looked a lot like wrong syncs for me Sep 22 12:02:07 jpcass: If you have the debug board you can also play with the regs directly using jtag Sep 22 12:02:23 no debug board ;-( Sep 22 12:02:37 * jpcass puts on glasses to try to correct his short-sightedness Sep 22 12:04:31 jpcass: Then you can use memedit or devmem2 to change the mapped regs in runtime Sep 22 12:08:36 jpcass: In the end we also need a hook to change the resolution and let LCM and fb know Sep 22 12:10:42 thanks stefan - its going to take me a while to understand this, I'll get back to you with questions! Sep 22 12:11:47 jpcass: ok, but be aware of long response times. I'm not that much at my pc these days with abroken arm. Sep 22 12:12:05 time for the Neo brain adapter Sep 22 12:12:13 * stefan_schmidt has to go. later Sep 22 12:12:17 XorA|gone: :) Sep 22 12:14:30 Elrond: of course. go ahead Sep 22 12:14:36 cu stefan Sep 22 12:15:08 cu -l Sep 22 12:15:27 mickeyl - If a package B is only recommended by package A, will it still be put in the built images? Sep 22 12:15:56 yes. by default ipkg install RRECOMMENDS when they are available Sep 22 12:16:28 hello all Sep 22 12:17:00 mickeyl - Ahh. Would it be reasonable to ask for some packages to be changed from being-depended-on to being-recommended? Sep 22 12:17:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UMTS]] Sep 22 12:17:23 mickeyl - Like bridge-utils Sep 22 12:17:54 Elrond: if it's not an absolute dependency, then it should be an rrecommends, so you can ipkg remove it easily Sep 22 12:18:07 i don't know whether bitbake attempts to build RRECOMMENDS though Sep 22 12:18:11 that should be checked Sep 22 12:18:16 or replace it with an alternative. e.g. replacing dropbear with openssh Sep 22 12:19:06 mickeyl - Ahh. IMHO it should. ;o) (that doesn't say, it does, of course.) Sep 22 12:29:05 * buz figures he counts as naysayer ;) Sep 22 12:29:13 what does Full PM, DIM only and No PM mean in the context of profile selection? Sep 22 12:29:40 i would guess first goes into supspend, second only deals with lcd brightnmess and third means no powermanagement Sep 22 12:30:15 alright, i thought so when my phone got kaput when it had suspend enabled Sep 22 12:51:26 it should come out of suspend ok 90% of the time Sep 22 12:51:41 the 10% are some remaining kernel/bootloader race conditions we need to figure out Sep 22 12:54:13 wht's power use in suspend? Sep 22 12:54:20 or is that the same as it has been? Sep 22 12:55:26 Hmm. I need to update my image. Sep 22 12:56:02 stupid questions: there are in commerce any bluetooth keyboard to use with Neo? Sep 22 12:56:19 You can connect a bluetooth keyboard, yes. Sep 22 12:56:23 or, better: bluetooth keyborad will run with neo? Sep 22 12:56:37 It is not integrated into the software. Sep 22 12:56:42 (yet) Sep 22 12:56:47 oook well ;) Sep 22 12:57:07 I suspect the page [[Manually using Bluetooth]] on the wiki may tell you how Sep 22 12:58:25 another question: anyone knows how much is tedious configure a bluetooth internet sharing from pc to Neo on Debian? I've never tried it :( Sep 22 12:58:46 mickeyl: is it bitbake virtual/kernel to build the kernel (trying to compile with stefan's qvga patch) Sep 22 12:59:04 yes. bitbake virtual/kernel, or more directly bitbake linux-openmoko Sep 22 12:59:20 and when you added the patch to SRC_URI you might want to give -c rebuild Sep 22 12:59:31 [if you didn't increase PR] Sep 22 13:00:03 yes, using -c rebuild ... Sep 22 13:01:03 "To silence all the “it’s cool, but doesn’t work as a phone” nay-sayers, I demonstrated a phone call during the talk" Sep 22 13:01:08 actually the patch was well out of dat (23 march) so I've just manually edited the jbt6k74.c file in the meantime... Sep 22 13:06:07 Fradeve http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth Sep 22 13:06:20 Bluetooth networking with a Linux system Sep 22 13:07:01 SpeedEvil: yeah I'm reading ;) thanks Sep 22 13:11:43 ScaredyCat: i would have been one of those ;) Sep 22 13:12:13 to be fair, though, one of the other neos at the booth reportedly did not receive calls very reliably Sep 22 13:13:57 last time I tried to set up semi-automatic bluetooth networking, I had some weird problem... no trouble configuring the hookup manually, so probably just some shoddy scripting on my part Sep 22 13:15:30 moin Sep 22 13:16:33 hola hhf423 :) Sep 22 13:17:22 Hi Ghiottone Sep 22 13:17:30 so, any news? Sep 22 13:17:38 did you get dual boot to run? Sep 22 13:18:08 unfortunately not. that problem is a blocker one Sep 22 13:18:17 I had not yet the time to do a bug report Sep 22 13:18:56 I think that dual boot could work if only that problem could be solved Sep 22 13:19:14 what diff options should I use to create a patch for openembedded? Sep 22 13:19:43 hhf423, a good news is that I have made the package for SettingsGUI 0.7 Sep 22 13:20:39 mmm mickeyl ? Sep 22 13:21:17 I see Sep 22 13:24:20 hhf423, I also am working on a bootchart optimization Sep 22 13:25:13 Ghiottone: you're working on optimizing bootchart or the boot process? Sep 22 13:25:51 bootchart Sep 22 13:26:10 it seems that it is using too much processor time Sep 22 13:26:21 Ghiottone: what's up?` Sep 22 13:26:28 and thus I think that result are not that accurate Sep 22 13:26:54 so I'm trying to rewrite a part of it in C so that it will be much lighter Sep 22 13:27:21 mickeyl, I tried a few days ago to set up a dual boot configuration for qtopia and openmoko Sep 22 13:27:36 mickeyl, but I got some strange problems with uboot and sd card Sep 22 13:27:43 mickeyl, I'm using the 19 august build Sep 22 13:28:01 mickeyl, do you know of any existing problems with that version? Sep 22 13:28:03 hi all Sep 22 13:28:37 hi mentax Sep 22 13:28:44 please tell me how I may mount flash card mmc? Sep 22 13:28:50 mickeyl, if I try to do mmcinit from uboot, I got errors and can't read its contents. if then I boot to linux, the card is not seen at all Sep 22 13:29:02 * hhf423 got a new alpha firmware for his alarm clock Sep 22 13:29:10 sorry, can't help there. i have not used my SD since a while Sep 22 13:29:20 and I'm in a hurry now. Sep 22 13:29:27 mickeyl, oh pity. Sep 22 13:29:45 mickeyl, well thanks anyway. who could I ask this questions to? Sep 22 13:30:04 i'd recommend the device-owners or the devel mailing list Sep 22 13:30:12 mickeyl: before you go, what options do you use with diff to make a patch openembedded will like? Sep 22 13:30:28 mickeyl, ok thank you. Sep 22 13:30:56 alias diff='diff -udbBPr' Sep 22 13:31:14 and make sure it applies w/ -p1 Sep 22 13:31:18 [which is the OE default] Sep 22 13:31:37 mickeyl: thanks have a great holiday ;-) Sep 22 13:31:59 :) thanks Sep 22 13:32:01 have fun mickeyl Sep 22 13:32:19 we'll have everything working for when you get back ;) Sep 22 13:32:19 * mickeyl finishing that qtopia blog in a couple of minutes Sep 22 13:32:27 i hope so! :D Sep 22 13:32:29 :) Sep 22 13:32:41 * jpcass interested to read that one ;-) Sep 22 13:32:52 * ScaredyCat too Sep 22 13:33:42 how I may mount SD? Sep 22 13:33:50 carefully :P Sep 22 13:34:35 mentax, it should be already mounted in /media/card after booting into linux Sep 22 13:34:47 hi not mount Sep 22 13:34:58 if it's not it's probably kernel modules mismatch... Sep 22 13:35:12 did you update kernel + rootfs ? Sep 22 13:35:16 lsmod | grep vfat Sep 22 13:36:04 jpcass: not have Sep 22 13:36:41 i using dpkg upgrade Sep 22 13:36:55 probably your modules are not same version to kernel; compare uname -r and /lib/modules/xxxxx Sep 22 13:37:13 * ScaredyCat distinctly remembers saying that ;) Sep 22 13:37:38 * jpcass hears echos... Sep 22 13:37:42 2.6.21.5-moko10 Sep 22 13:37:55 is that from uname ? Sep 22 13:38:04 yes Sep 22 13:38:09 uname -r Sep 22 13:38:20 best thing is to update the kernel with dfu-util to 2.6.22.5 (latest) Sep 22 13:38:43 if you update your rootfs make sure your kernel matches Sep 22 13:38:44 in lib/modules i have 2.6.22.5-moko11 Sep 22 13:38:55 note the 'moko11' Sep 22 13:40:17 flash this with dfu-util http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2-fic-gta01.bin Sep 22 13:40:21 hou Sep 22 13:40:21 anyone else with this problem: ERROR: '/home/thomasg/org.openembedded.dev/packages/ttf-fonts/ttf-liberation_0.2.bb' failed ? Sep 22 13:40:42 the reason is, that the file is on a https-server and wget doesn't use the --no-check-certificate option Sep 22 13:41:03 why on earth is it https Sep 22 13:41:10 ask IBM Sep 22 13:41:46 ah, not IBM, I mean Red Hat Sep 22 13:42:01 https://www.redhat.com/f/fonts/liberation-fonts-ttf-3.tar.gz Sep 22 13:42:13 mentax: if you did ipkg upgrade, it updated the kernel modules (created /lib/modules/2.6.22.5) to latest version Sep 22 13:42:40 mentax: but the kernel itself must be updated seperately with dfu-util (it lives on a seperate partition in flash, not within / ) Sep 22 13:42:53 jpcass: how version uImage i need download? Sep 22 13:43:08 r0 or r2? Sep 22 13:43:22 mentax: use the one scaredycat pointed to above r2 Sep 22 13:43:51 * ScaredyCat urges mickeyl to type faster Sep 22 13:44:15 thomasg: i've had that problem before with svn, is it scn you are downloading from? Sep 22 13:44:37 no, I'm using openembedded directly, not the openmoko-overlay or so Sep 22 13:45:10 jpcass: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2-fic-gta01.bin it that image? Sep 22 13:45:17 thomasg: its becuase with svn it sometimes asks the user will they accept a certificate and openembedded can't deal with that Sep 22 13:45:23 mentax: that will do yes Sep 22 13:45:29 and according to the log it tries to download the file with a simple wget https://www.redhat.com/f/fonts/liberation-fonts-ttf-3.tar.gz - and wget returns: certificate foo.. Sep 22 13:46:37 thomasg: ok. my solution with svn was to do it manually somewhere - svn stores the certificate so when you run openembeeded again it just works Sep 22 13:47:51 anyone had a chance to mount the sd card from qtopia..am trying to "dualboot" OM and qtopia Sep 22 13:48:08 done. Sep 22 13:48:10 *phew* Sep 22 13:48:13 league game now Sep 22 13:48:13 :D Sep 22 13:48:14 cu Sep 22 13:48:19 bye Sep 22 13:48:35 cu Sep 22 13:48:39 erm Sep 22 13:48:41 where is it Sep 22 13:48:44 (note that the post has been tagged 21th september ;) Sep 22 13:48:51 as this was the brainstorming Sep 22 13:48:52 heh Sep 22 13:49:03 aaahh Sep 22 13:49:09 crafty ;) Sep 22 13:49:38 jpcass: downloading it manually wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know where to :) Sep 22 13:50:05 sudharsh: sd works fine under qtopia... Sep 22 13:50:24 btw - today I got my new 6 GB microSD Sep 22 13:50:37 jpcass, hmmm.../dev/sda doesnt exist Sep 22 13:50:48 thomasg, :O, think about the pr0n Sep 22 13:50:49 :P Sep 22 13:51:03 sudharsh: I said 6 GB Sep 22 13:51:06 not 6 TB :) Sep 22 13:51:09 thomasg: in the svn situation, i just checked it out anywhere - the imporant thing was that in doing that svn asks me a question and saves a certificate so that next time you run openembedded it works... Sep 22 13:51:20 thomasg: maybe wget does the same? Sep 22 13:51:44 does it work thomasg? Sep 22 13:51:46 if not download it to /sources and try bitbake -c unpack (next step after fetch) Sep 22 13:51:49 in th eneo/?? Sep 22 13:52:29 ScaredyCat: I wanted to test it by booting from it :) Sep 22 13:52:37 but openembedded doesn't like me :( Sep 22 13:52:37 sudharsh: its /dev/mmcblk0 - you need to make sure the kernel and modules are the same version Sep 22 13:52:39 bugger that! Sep 22 13:52:47 just plug it in and scp stuff to it :D Sep 22 13:52:52 :) Sep 22 13:52:58 seems I have to do that Sep 22 13:53:10 it's the quickest test :) Sep 22 13:53:15 scaredycat: where is mickeyl's blog? Sep 22 13:53:28 or dd if=/dev/zero Sep 22 13:53:38 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/blog/ Sep 22 13:53:55 it's under 21st, not today's date :) Sep 22 13:54:56 I'm not sure anyone did actually suggest dropping openmoko completely though... or did I miss something? Sep 22 13:56:47 thomasg, how much did you pay for that? Sep 22 13:57:09 i'm looking at getting a 4gb one now Sep 22 13:57:51 about 90$ Sep 22 13:58:04 60€ here in germany Sep 22 13:58:18 hmm, i think i'll stick with the 4gb one then Sep 22 13:58:23 $48 on amazon Sep 22 13:58:50 and $150 or so where i live Sep 22 13:58:53 the 4gb would have been around 50€ here. I also wanted to get one, but in all the local stores they only had 2gb and only 4gb was not available in the shops Sep 22 13:59:20 where are you from? Sep 22 13:59:28 south africa Sep 22 13:59:37 http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=154540 ?? Sep 22 13:59:43 hardware always so expensive there? Sep 22 14:00:03 yep Sep 22 14:00:16 my parents are going to the states, so just getting them to get it Sep 22 14:01:36 got to go. bya lle Sep 22 14:01:42 by all* Sep 22 14:01:43 (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Hello (again), Qtopia! http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/09/21/hello-again-qtopia/ Sep 22 14:02:12 adieu Sep 22 14:02:29 i think collaboration should go further even: there should even be a dbus interface to contact/todo/calendar data Sep 22 14:02:58 scaredycat: i didnt see that; maybe he got some personal communications! Sep 22 14:03:00 of course sticking dbus on everything is sort of a way around the GPL Sep 22 14:03:35 once you use dbus, you are no longer linking against gpl software per se Sep 22 14:04:03 well, depends where you link.. :) Sep 22 14:04:18 well that's assuming you dont use a gpl'ed dbus client Sep 22 14:04:55 to the openembedded guys: if a SRC_URI starts with https - could you set wget to wget --no-check-certificate? I don't know if this is only my problem, but it seems necessary. Sep 22 14:05:51 mickey|sports: Good post, and enjoy your disconnected vacation :) Sep 22 14:09:14 so where does the battery level info go in /proc? Sep 22 14:09:37 how i may flashing kernel? Sep 22 14:09:49 using dfu-utils Sep 22 14:10:08 dfu-util -a kernel -R -D Sep 22 14:10:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Sep 22 14:10:43 thx Sep 22 14:18:27 sudharsh: I think /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/battvolt is all there is Sep 22 14:19:14 jpcass: was it you trying to connect to your asterisk box with qtopias voip client? Sep 22 14:19:46 scaredycat: i tried but no success...didnt get very far... Sep 22 14:20:59 scaredcat: someone said you need to edit the Settings/Trolltech/SIPAgent.conf file directly as the UI introduces spaces... Sep 22 14:24:23 Hi Sep 22 14:27:40 I've read in the wiki that the GTA02 is gonna be available in December. Is that right? Sep 22 14:27:41 matschi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 22 14:31:39 mattzerah: that is the latest estimate Sep 22 14:31:52 matschi: for all we know, yes Sep 22 14:31:53 matschi: even Sep 22 14:32:08 It's even an official one, for whatever that's worth Sep 22 14:33:13 i so want it for xmas Sep 22 14:34:29 stefan_schmidt: are you around? Sep 22 14:39:00 Cool, maybe I finally by a cellphone. Doppelpunkt, Klammer auf Sep 22 14:39:20 Oooops, stupid auto replace. Sep 22 15:15:46 The program 'openmoko-today' received an X Window System error. Sep 22 15:15:47 This probably reflects a bug in the program. Sep 22 15:15:47 The error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'. Sep 22 15:15:47 (Details: serial 26344 error_code 3 request_code 20 minor_code 0) Sep 22 15:15:47 (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously; Sep 22 15:15:47 that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it. Sep 22 15:15:50 To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line Sep 22 15:15:51 option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful Sep 22 15:15:53 backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.) Sep 22 15:16:17 This happens when I run openmoko-window (compiled for i386) running in xephyr. Sep 22 15:16:52 *openmoko-today Sep 22 15:58:43 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Help Request for our Webshop Sep 22 16:05:48 The bluetooth on the Neo, is it 2.0 or 2.1? Sep 22 16:08:54 IMO, for the near term - ebay webshop works fine for neo stuff. Sep 22 16:09:03 lots of canned software Sep 22 16:09:03 (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz [openmoko-announce] Help Request for our Webshop Sep 22 16:11:28 writing a good webshop from scratch? sounds like insanity Sep 22 16:12:33 For a few thousand units, yes. Sep 22 16:12:57 even for 10s of thousands Sep 22 16:13:30 I agree Sep 22 16:13:48 why the heck would someone write one more webshop these days Sep 22 16:13:55 NIH Sep 22 16:14:11 ah, yes, I forgot that Sep 22 16:14:13 if java is an option, i would take a good luck at ofbiz Sep 22 16:14:21 and of course for security reasons !!1! Sep 22 16:14:48 clearly it should be written in assembly Sep 22 16:14:52 for maximum efficiency Sep 22 16:14:57 I would also recommend to write your own encryption algo's, for security reasons Sep 22 16:15:12 yes, assembler is a good choice! Sep 22 16:15:13 not to forget your own database Sep 22 16:15:30 I am fully with that. Then the could also use a GTA01 as the webshop system Sep 22 16:16:12 in fact, that's a splendid idea. use a cluster of gta02 for websites. think about the marketing Sep 22 16:16:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Music_Player]] Sep 22 16:16:52 a few gta02 would easily saturate a 100mbit pipe with static content i'd guess Sep 22 16:17:01 Anyone got links to the qtopia firmware? Sep 22 16:17:03 I'd say, use ebay or amazon as the shop platform and be done with it Sep 22 16:17:08 Need to wow some ppll Sep 22 16:17:18 mmazur: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 22 16:17:36 i can see why you want your own site. but not why you would want to build it yourself Sep 22 16:17:41 danke Sep 22 16:17:57 if i had the time, i'd apply though ;) Sep 22 16:19:12 and no php but perl is allowed? madness Sep 22 16:22:17 SpeedEvil - BTW: You're right. the HH in the neo isn't that super. I did a long walk and had it in my pocket. Way back (same side of the road) is about 15m away from my way to the destination. :-| Sep 22 16:22:47 Some of this is GPS wander Sep 22 16:23:00 the error will tend to be constantish for any GPS Sep 22 16:23:07 and wander over time Sep 22 16:24:38 Ahh. Sep 22 16:25:48 I tried to mark some positions by walking edges. Only half of my markings are in the gpx. Sep 22 16:28:09 Oh yuck. It has a half circle for a straight road. :-| Sep 22 16:30:55 Now you know why I go out with 3 GPSs :) Sep 22 16:31:00 More seriously. Sep 22 16:31:07 Any obstruction Sep 22 16:31:45 trees? Sep 22 16:32:07 Well, yes. That one road was in the middle of that village. Sep 22 16:32:21 Trees cause problems Sep 22 16:32:58 Unless it is a special reduction drive Sep 22 16:32:59 oops Sep 22 16:33:11 elrond: you contribute to OSM? Sep 22 16:33:44 Fradeve - Yes. Sep 22 16:34:02 is the GPS usable in 2007.2 yet? Sep 22 16:34:16 hhf423 - Yes, in a chroot. Sep 22 16:34:48 Elrond: did you try that? I did and got "permission denied" on gllin execution Sep 22 16:34:49 http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.19411518881747&lon=-3.1574601226850736&zoom=12&layers=0BT - did all but the railway Sep 22 16:35:19 hhf - Yes, works nicely. Sep 22 16:35:19 somewhere I once saw a program for making dynamic programs static, that would solve the need for gllin chrot Sep 22 16:35:29 so, I tested my 6 GB microSD and it work's. Sep 22 16:35:34 Woo! Sep 22 16:35:36 6? Sep 22 16:35:46 6GB??? Sep 22 16:35:46 thomasg: that exists? Sep 22 16:35:49 * SpeedEvil wanty. Sep 22 16:36:12 thomasg: put it in the wiki Sep 22 16:36:19 thomasg: more storage than a DVD, in a fingernail-sized package? Sep 22 16:36:27 * thseiler wants one, too Sep 22 16:36:35 plz add me 2 Sep 22 16:36:48 Elrond: what could be the issue if I get "permission denied", I alread did chown -R root.root on everything :-) Sep 22 16:36:53 XorA - Should be doable, yes. ELF is quite flexible Sep 22 16:37:02 cesarb: yeah :) Sep 22 16:37:02 * mwester doesn't have 6GB of data to put on such a card, because his GPS doesn't work! Sep 22 16:37:08 hhf423: yes, I'm on it Sep 22 16:37:16 wikipedia dvd hehehe Sep 22 16:37:19 Elrond: it is do-able, I just cant find the program again Sep 22 16:37:26 * hhf423 did just order a 4gb card, not here yet, though Sep 22 16:37:26 cesarb: gsmd works quite reliably for me now Sep 22 16:37:34 * cesarb wonders what people in '91 would say if we said "hey, is that a 1.44M floppy? in 15 years we will have six thousand floppies in the space of a fingernail" Sep 22 16:37:48 mwester: managed to fix it? or it simply decided to work? Sep 22 16:37:48 mwester - What's up with your gps? Sep 22 16:38:01 cesarb: afaik we dont yet have 8GB microsd ;) Sep 22 16:38:02 Elrond: no gllin :( Sep 22 16:38:18 $ /bin/echo \\\\ Sep 22 16:38:21 \\ Sep 22 16:38:26 $ echo \\\\ Sep 22 16:38:29 \ Sep 22 16:38:33 Elrond: so how much usable is Neo with OSM at now? Your experience not seems to be too good -.- Sep 22 16:38:34 that's annoying Sep 22 16:38:42 cesarb: I'm not exactly sure. Some new commits yesterday for gsmd but I'm also using a patched kernel and I changed the startup sequence. Now I have to figure out which of these fixed it. Sep 22 16:38:59 dash's builtin echo seems to be seriously wonky Sep 22 16:39:00 so where do we get 6G cards? Sep 22 16:39:20 * SpeedEvil ponders who he had to sleep with. Sep 22 16:39:25 expansys.com ? Sep 22 16:39:26 Oush Sep 22 16:39:31 er, Ouch even Sep 22 16:39:35 sounds like a weird product anyhow Sep 22 16:39:38 http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=154540 Sep 22 16:39:45 i've never seen non powers of 2 memory cards Sep 22 16:39:59 Fradeve - Well, depends. My last try was quite good. I could easily mark special points by just walking some edge, etc. And got nicely aligned roads for forth and back. Todays trip wasn't as nice. Sep 22 16:40:18 sounds quite practical -- like the hard drives. If an 8GB unit has too many defects, mark 2GB as bad and sell it as a 6GB. Sep 22 16:40:18 buz: a german resaler had 3 cards, 1 of them is in my neo, the other on the way to a neo-owner from austria :) Sep 22 16:40:19 buz: SD cards are more like hard disks, so they are not limited to powers of two Sep 22 16:40:31 cesarb: i know Sep 22 16:40:33 still never seen one Sep 22 16:40:34 buz: they have sector remaping, wear leveling, OOB data, the works Sep 22 16:40:38 did you test yet thomasg? Sep 22 16:40:48 buz: yeah, now that you say it... I never saw one too Sep 22 16:40:48 ScaredyCat: yes (not uboot, but system) Sep 22 16:41:10 buz: and 6G still fits the powers of two scheme (2Gx3, looks like someone added a third chip) Sep 22 16:41:40 * pH5 just bought a 6GB card from mp3-player.de Sep 22 16:41:43 4G+2G Sep 22 16:42:00 yeah i figure it's probably some combinatio Sep 22 16:42:01 can it be that SDHC means it is more than 1 single chip? Sep 22 16:42:11 shdc means its more than 2G Sep 22 16:42:17 and uses sector instead of byte addressing Sep 22 16:42:23 so this would fit: 2gb SD, 2x2GB SDHC, 3x2GB SDHC, 4x2GB SDHC Sep 22 16:44:29 * mwester puts back the original /etc/init.d/gsmd script, and reboots... Sep 22 16:45:37 * bedboi is back (gone 01:22:01) Sep 22 16:46:02 SpeedEvil - The other gps, that I have, is only a "street navigator", it can only mark points, not save whole tracks. :-| Sep 22 16:47:18 hi all Sep 22 16:47:29 where i can find the bitback log? Sep 22 16:47:54 With the original script, gsmd is back to the bad behavior again. Sep 22 16:48:33 when I want play mp3 i have error: internal data flow error Sep 22 16:49:50 what is it? Sep 22 16:50:03 how i may play music? Sep 22 16:50:33 mentax: killall pulseaudio Sep 22 16:50:54 and, alsactl restore -f /etc/stereoout.state Sep 22 16:51:00 works fine for me Sep 22 16:57:08 * hhf423 sooo wants gps to work Sep 22 16:57:54 can I use the GTA01 with a USB graphics card as a surf station later when gta02 is out? Sep 22 16:58:31 but then again 200Mhz is probably not going to cut it Sep 22 17:00:48 fgau: not work Sep 22 17:04:30 mentax: hm Sep 22 17:08:52 cesarb: ping! Sep 22 17:21:38 m-linux-gnueabi/csu/crt1.o: In function `_start': Sep 22 17:21:38 init.c:(.text+0x24): undefined reference to `__libc_start_main' Sep 22 17:21:38 init.c:(.text+0x28): undefined reference to `abort' Sep 22 17:21:38 init.c:(.text+0x2c): undefined reference to `__libc_csu_fini' Sep 22 17:21:38 init.c:(.text+0x34): undefined reference to `__libc_csu_init'than Sep 22 17:22:15 it's stuck in glibc-intermediate-2.5-r7 Sep 22 17:31:57 what's the preferred version i should use? Sep 22 17:38:22 mwester: sorry, went away to try to debug some A/V trouble Sep 22 17:41:22 Why can't A/V gear get its input from a common standardized connection, output to a common standardized connection, and have a single box with several inputs and outputs from that common standardized connection which can route/split/join signals any way I want? Sep 22 17:41:30 Like ethernet? Sep 22 17:42:09 bandwidth/power requirements. ;) Sep 22 17:43:15 juri_: for sure if you circuit switch you can avoid any bw/power trouble... Sep 22 17:43:36 juri_: just circuit switching would already really reduce the cabling spaghetti Sep 22 17:43:57 then you'd be talking about chip realestate. :) Sep 22 17:45:02 most of what you want is commercially available, if you route it all to a fpga, and write some vhdl to accomplish your task.. Sep 22 17:46:20 i'm available to do that, for the right price. welcome to "the world". :) Sep 22 17:47:39 cesarb: firewire Sep 22 17:47:52 although HDMI has made the cabling a lot better Sep 22 17:51:28 cesarb: I can get reliable startup of the gsmd, but only if *everything* is just so. There are several problems that all indicate serial device initialization problems. Sep 22 17:52:51 cesarb: Also one whopper of a bad problem - if gsmd crashes, then something(s) try to restart it - simultaneously. gsmd won't start two copies (says it's already running), but the modem power-off/on and stty stuff in /etc/init.d/gsmd has already run, and messed up the serial port for the on that *is* running... Sep 22 17:53:38 mwester: maybe it would be a good idea to move contol of power for the gsm module inside gmsd Sep 22 17:53:39 mwester: that's already known, it's (IIRC) the icon thingy in the task bar and the library the dialer uses Sep 22 17:53:59 mwester: both try to deal with a nonworking gsmd by restarting them Sep 22 17:54:14 Is there a reason why this is currently done in the init scripts ? Sep 22 17:54:21 mwester: which IMAO is stupid; it's not their job, there should be a "service manager" (upstart?) to deal with that Sep 22 17:54:36 thseiler: yes, it's voodoo debugging Sep 22 17:54:46 thseiler: That's exactly what I was thinking -- the edits to the gsmd startup that got it working reliably for me involve minimizing the power on/off and delays. Sep 22 17:54:58 thseiler: they started sticking lots and lots of "let's see if THIS works" everywhere Sep 22 17:55:46 cesarb: a gsmd that forks off a child to do the work, then restarts it as necessary makes a lot of sense. Sep 22 17:56:26 mwester: then, the daemon (parent) could take care of power. Sep 22 17:56:34 mwester: the Apache way? yeah, it makes some sense... but shouldn't be needed, gsmd shouldn't crash ever Sep 22 17:56:45 If the child crashes, restart without touching the power at all. Sep 22 17:56:49 mwester: and if it crashes, a service manager should restart it Sep 22 17:57:03 "shouldn't" is the correct design goal, but defensive design says the Apache model is a good one. Sep 22 17:58:12 thseiler: Ideally the parent could start a child in a "recovery" mode to see if gsmd can recover without a power-cycle of the modem - if that fails, the parent could power-cycle, and start afresh. Sep 22 17:58:35 mwester: I like that idea. Sep 22 17:58:43 cesarb: Do you know if gsmd keeps state beyond matching the responses to the commands? Sep 22 17:59:30 there is a tiny bit of state at startup, but nothing once it has started up, as far as i know. Sep 22 17:59:45 mwester: dunno, I only looked at the command/response stuff. There's a globalish struct (struct gsmd IIRC) which should keep the state if there's any, just look at it Sep 22 18:00:18 Ok. I'll try some gross hacks first (wish I had Perl on this thing). Sep 22 18:00:25 ;-) Sep 22 18:02:02 * mwester (flush with optimism) types "bitbake perl" Sep 22 18:03:57 Hmm... apparently perl is built, but not installed into the image? Sep 22 18:05:31 * thseiler is reading the OHM specification ... Sep 22 18:06:25 mwester: it probably is in the feed, just use ipkg to install it Sep 22 18:16:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Ast]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Child]] [[Wishlist:Profiles]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Employee]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]] Sep 22 18:17:56 can gta02 be used as a Wii controller? Sep 22 18:18:20 Not really Sep 22 18:18:28 there is nothing to read hte sensor bar Sep 22 18:18:49 close eyes first. Sep 22 18:18:51 oops Sep 22 18:20:40 * cesarb idly wonders what _mysql_ is doing on his feed build Sep 22 18:20:53 What's next, Oracle? Sep 22 18:20:58 it's needed for openstreetmap - server. Sep 22 18:21:22 though you need to upgrade to the 60Gb microsd Sep 22 18:22:59 I thought the gigantic SD cards were reserved for all the duplicates of the enormous .wav files? Sep 22 18:32:09 SpeedEvil: I was thinking hypothetically Sep 22 18:32:56 Vegar: I know Sep 22 18:33:21 so it's possible if I close my eyes? Sep 22 18:33:50 No - close eyes first was a mischan Sep 22 18:35:30 * ScaredyCat gets disappointed with lcd4linux Sep 22 18:35:54 ? Sep 22 18:37:51 you can't cycle screens Sep 22 18:56:49 is there any good reason for gtk people not to develop a framebuffer backend? Sep 22 18:58:33 are there any benchmarks for applications running over X or on FB? Sep 22 19:05:25 * CM tries a "make all" Sep 22 19:09:04 * Unleashed refuses to be "made" again. Sep 22 19:09:08 :) Sep 22 19:09:30 * anrp readies the leash Sep 22 19:12:12 grrr Sep 22 19:12:18 nite! Sep 22 19:12:24 nite D: Sep 22 19:12:29 i just read the mickeyl post Sep 22 19:12:41 i quite agree Sep 22 19:13:04 btw imho gtk people should consider the FB backend Sep 22 19:13:06 bedboi there is a gtk on directfb, without x11. that also renders to unaccelerated framebuffers as well as having some accelerated drivers Sep 22 19:13:29 i guess there was Sep 22 19:13:30 http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2005/05/msg00167.html Sep 22 19:13:30 bedboi but that will not buy that much performance. Sep 22 19:13:53 roh: it is always the same question (even on modern desktops) Sep 22 19:13:54 bedboi the direct to fbdev port is afaik totally unmaintained and not complete Sep 22 19:14:02 do we really need x? Sep 22 19:14:24 depends on who you ask Sep 22 19:14:35 users Sep 22 19:14:39 stupid users Sep 22 19:14:44 users could care less Sep 22 19:14:49 yep Sep 22 19:14:49 err.. couldn't Sep 22 19:14:51 they do Sep 22 19:15:05 they don't need an x server Sep 22 19:15:07 * anrp mulls over semantically wrong phrase Sep 22 19:15:35 on my desktop i will always use X Sep 22 19:15:40 ssh -X :) Sep 22 19:15:45 boo cat /dev/fb ftw Sep 22 19:15:59 * mwester thinks X has outlived it's usefulness. Sep 22 19:16:15 * bedboi too Sep 22 19:16:19 ...but yeah, X is the only major, working, used, standardized graphics system on linux for now Sep 22 19:16:20 i mean Sep 22 19:16:34 why gtk should not implement a solid DFB backend Sep 22 19:16:39 i don't see any stoppers Sep 22 19:16:48 what about kde apps D: Sep 22 19:16:59 who cares Sep 22 19:17:03 j/k Sep 22 19:17:06 is there something newer than 2007.2 i can download? Sep 22 19:17:08 some users might? :o Sep 22 19:17:13 * juri_ is initing her phone for the first time. Sep 22 19:17:27 Just because its the best we have implemented right now doesn't mean that it's the best we are capable of doing, or even the best suited for the current environment. Sep 22 19:17:33 anrp: i'm not sure, but maybe qt has the fb backend Sep 22 19:17:54 i'm wanting to play media, and use the GPS on my phone. Sep 22 19:18:01 mwester: i agree. there has been a lot of efforts so far to replace x Sep 22 19:18:07 (no dialing/recieving calls) Sep 22 19:18:16 qt definately does Sep 22 19:18:19 qpe uses it Sep 22 19:18:25 Anyone remember Sun's NeWS ? Sep 22 19:18:33 but i'm almost 100% sure it won't cooperate with gtk/directfb Sep 22 19:18:38 mwester: remember Berlin? :) Sep 22 19:19:12 juri_: gps is still of questionable legality... Sep 22 19:19:13 afaik Sep 22 19:19:20 to use at least Sep 22 19:19:34 anrp: howso? Sep 22 19:19:48 the gps driver program was never properly released Sep 22 19:20:01 bedboi, have you seen http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB ? Sep 22 19:20:02 well, one can only fall afoul of the gps issue if one stumbles across a gllin binary somewhere, and that's not too likely... :) Sep 22 19:20:07 the hardware dosent speak nmea natively? Sep 22 19:20:16 Alas, no. Sep 22 19:20:34 cheaper, smaller to do it that way Sep 22 19:20:35 So without the closed binary library, the GPS is about as useful as a rock. Sep 22 19:21:01 * mwester is unhappy about that situation... Sep 22 19:21:03 *sigh* Sep 22 19:21:22 cb22: so it is not dead Sep 22 19:21:22 you can find *cough* the gllin binary *cough* around Sep 22 19:21:24 if you want it Sep 22 19:21:48 i wonder where the reverse engineering team hangs arround at. :) Sep 22 19:22:00 they use 2.10.13 Sep 22 19:22:09 * juri_ has a *bit* of experience reverse engineering blobs. Sep 22 19:22:23 its not just re Sep 22 19:22:26 the GPS logic is in there Sep 22 19:22:58 and the questionable release comes from the fact that it may be able to run afoul of ITAR restrictions if it's user modifiable Sep 22 19:23:03 hmm. so kindof like the situation reguarding the atheros wireless chipsets.. Sep 22 19:23:11 anrp, are you sure of that one? Sep 22 19:23:16 not 100% Sep 22 19:23:36 but if the logic has the ability to remove the 500m/s and/or 50km (?) limits Sep 22 19:23:42 then it becomoes controlled under itar... Sep 22 19:23:50 SpeedEvil made a good case that it's so with the ITAR (which only applies when taking the device and software combo across the US border, btw) Sep 22 19:23:52 *becomes Sep 22 19:24:01 i remember reading somewhere... Sep 22 19:24:05 now i just cant get the link Sep 22 19:24:29 here we go Sep 22 19:24:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS Sep 22 19:24:48 the last comment: The ITAR legislation may not apply, considering the phone is currently not "Designed for producing navigation results above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater;" Sep 22 19:25:02 emphasis on _designed_ Sep 22 19:26:16 you want to argue with us defense lawyers about semantics? Sep 22 19:26:17 be my guest Sep 22 19:26:29 lol, not arguing Sep 22 19:26:41 just stating what the page says, i'm not even in the US Sep 22 19:26:50 arguing semantics with a lawyer is almost always a losing proposition ~_~ Sep 22 19:26:51 * mjr luckily not either, in the US Sep 22 19:27:13 clearly the limit will create a market for slow moving cruise missiles Sep 22 19:27:26 or scramjet-based platforms Sep 22 19:27:32 Now is not a good time to be arguing points about ITAR and similar laws, lest one find oneself in an orange jumpsuit near Cuba. Sep 22 19:28:39 And in other news today, 7 members from the OpenMoko development team were arrested as they tried to enter the United States, for selling phon^W missile guidence systems to the North Koreans Sep 22 19:29:09 indeedio Sep 22 19:29:22 ahahah Sep 22 19:30:01 a definite oops moment there Sep 22 19:30:03 meh. won't be the first time i've violated us arms restrictions. :P Sep 22 19:30:25 what, you bring a cigrette lighter on a plane or something? :p Sep 22 19:30:37 zomg terra!!1 Sep 22 19:30:47 or some such Sep 22 19:30:48 * bedboi in the US, but just for two more weeks :) Sep 22 19:31:01 btw US is damn cheap now. Sep 22 19:31:08 * bedboi hugs Bush Sep 22 19:31:14 bedboi: the entire US :/ Sep 22 19:31:18 not just the dollar :/ Sep 22 19:31:25 bedboi, i have an amazon order for a 4gb mem stick, a bluetooth keyboard and two books... Sep 22 19:31:34 * mwester a computer in the NSA building marks this channel (and a certain nick) for closer tracking... Sep 22 19:31:39 bedboi: my paychecks feel smaller as a result. :/ Sep 22 19:31:40 all together it costs less with shipping then the 4gb mem card does in South Africa Sep 22 19:31:47 * doc|home waves to the NSA Sep 22 19:31:51 ehhehe, i just bought a battery for my x41 (in italy is 150 eur, here is less than 80$) Sep 22 19:32:04 bedboi: which in turn, is about 0 euro :/ Sep 22 19:32:06 *40 Sep 22 19:32:14 ahaha Sep 22 19:32:14 yep Sep 22 19:32:15 that's the cool part Sep 22 19:32:33 i feel like rich Sep 22 19:32:39 heh Sep 22 19:33:09 i will very soon feel poor Sep 22 19:33:19 paris is way too expansive Sep 22 19:33:24 expensive Sep 22 19:33:43 well it expands too Sep 22 19:35:35 so funny, i'm getting my neo's accessories before i'm getting it Sep 22 19:46:39 * cesarb finally manages to complete a "make feed", yay! Sep 22 19:46:46 took only about four patches... Sep 22 19:50:54 NOTE: package glibc-2.5-r7: task do_populate_staging: started " 20 minutes like this... Sep 22 19:50:56 damn Sep 22 19:50:58 it's 4 hours :) Sep 22 19:51:02 stupid pentium m 1.50 GHz Sep 22 19:53:54 cesarb: do these patches by chance include a workaround for mtpaint ? Sep 22 19:54:16 and congratulation, btw Sep 22 19:55:03 thseiler: yep Sep 22 19:55:30 thseiler: 3050 Sep 22 19:56:18 3050 ? Sep 22 19:56:20 thseiler: which is in fact the workaround I made for 2007.1 and rwhitby had added to mokomakefile, but which was lost when everything changed to 2007.2. I assumed it had been applied upstream, or had already been fixed... looks like it wasn't Sep 22 19:56:28 thseiler: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3050 Sep 22 19:57:22 ah , now i understand. wrong tracker... Sep 22 20:01:54 openmoko: 03zecke * r3033 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.h): Sep 22 20:01:54 openmoko: 2007-09-22 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Sep 22 20:01:54 openmoko: Change the header file to be parsable by h2def.py, which will Sep 22 20:01:54 openmoko: reduce the manual work needed to create bindings. Sep 22 20:01:56 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.h: Sep 22 20:07:21 is there really nobody else who has the ttf-liberation problem? Sep 22 20:07:23 abraxa_: mediaplayer segfaults Sep 22 20:07:34 abraxa_: after spitting out some: Sep 22 20:07:43 (openmoko-mediaplayer:1711): Gtk-WARNING **: Useless empty GtkIconSource Sep 22 20:08:14 thomasg: ? Sep 22 20:08:39 mickeyl: openembedded tries to download the ttf-liberation from from a red hat httpS server via wget Sep 22 20:09:03 of course wget fails because it's https and the --no-check-certificate option is not set Sep 22 20:09:31 thomasg: shouldn't wget have already some CAs to check against? Sep 22 20:09:38 thomasg: I doubt it's self-signed Sep 22 20:09:47 mickeyl: Uhh... I haven't seen that before. Hm. Sep 22 20:09:58 abraxa_: did you rename some pixmaps yet? Sep 22 20:10:03 cesarb: I don't know - but it definitely fails :) Sep 22 20:10:09 i have no traceback since i don't have debuggin symbols yet Sep 22 20:10:16 thomasg: hmm, how 'bout setting this option? Sep 22 20:10:23 mickeyl: how? :) Sep 22 20:10:25 thomasg: you can configure your wget call in local.conf Sep 22 20:10:30 see bitbake.conf for an idea Sep 22 20:10:34 FETCHCOMMAND Sep 22 20:10:35 or something Sep 22 20:10:46 ok, thanks Sep 22 20:10:52 mickeyl: I tried but don't have commit permissions so I actually wanted to ask you how to proceed (just got back home) Sep 22 20:11:01 ah right Sep 22 20:11:24 please add your ideas to the bugtracker then, i can't enable permission right now (tons of other things until I'm leaving tomorrow) Sep 22 20:11:42 thomasg: both wget and curl work fine for me, and curl in verbose mode shows it explicitly accepts the certificate (I know curl can be annoying about it) Sep 22 20:11:43 mickeyl: thanks, it's FETCHCOMMAND_wget Sep 22 20:11:49 :) Sep 22 20:11:50 mickeyl: Okay, that's perfectly fine :) Sep 22 20:11:58 thomasg: your distribution probably has a broken CA certificates package Sep 22 20:12:34 cesarb: might be. it's a debian-chroot inside my gentoo system (use it only for OE) Sep 22 20:12:35 thomasg: or perhaps a paranoid nothing-is-enabled-by-default CA certificates package Sep 22 20:13:15 thomasg: IIRC debian has a ca-certificates package... try installing it, and then using dpkg-reconfigure on it to check if all are enabled (I don't recall if debian enables or disables all certificates by default) Sep 22 20:13:54 ok, then let me start again... is there a newer image than 2007.2 for me to flash? :) Sep 22 20:13:55 cesarb: you're right Sep 22 20:14:09 juri_: only snapshots, but they are all called 2007.2 too ;-) Sep 22 20:14:09 why haven't I had this problems in past? Sep 22 20:14:29 thomasg: because only selinux-loving redhat is actually paranoid enough to use https? Sep 22 20:14:44 cesarb: :) Sep 22 20:14:52 thomasg: they use https for _mailing list archives_ ffs (or was it bugzilla pages? don't remember) Sep 22 20:16:08 cesarb: where would i get them? :) Sep 22 20:16:26 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] Sep 22 20:18:20 juri_: either you build it yourself, or you get from one of the several autobuilders... there's a list of them somewhere (I think under some page called something like "Repositories" in the wiki) Sep 22 20:18:46 thanks. :) Sep 22 20:19:52 thanks cesarb, that solved the problem Sep 22 20:20:21 thats the problem if you aren't using and updating the chroot-system :) Sep 22 20:20:43 abraxa_: ok, i think it's not your fault Sep 22 20:20:48 all applications SIGSEGv Sep 22 20:20:53 i don't think i can release this Sep 22 20:20:54 Ouch. Sep 22 20:21:06 something seriously wrong in that compile Sep 22 20:21:25 thomasg: perhaps the problem was how you built the chroot... I think debootstrap builds a minimal system, instead of the more complete one installed by the text-mode installer Sep 22 20:21:42 thomasg: installing under qemu and then copying to your chroot could be a way to avoid it Sep 22 20:21:58 thomasg: or installing under qemu, listing the dpkg selections, and applying them to the chroot Sep 22 20:22:20 next time I'll use a virtual machine Sep 22 20:22:37 mickeyl: was that a clean build? Sep 22 20:22:41 yes Sep 22 20:22:58 mickeyl: badness Sep 22 20:23:17 ok, gpe-scap works Sep 22 20:23:24 so it's only the moko-apps Sep 22 20:23:34 i remember thos changing something wrt icons in moko-stoick Sep 22 20:23:38 mickeyl: Just take it easy and enjoy your holidays - no need to stress out :) Sep 22 20:23:56 well, i wanted to release a september snapshot before going, but it doesn't look like i can do that :/ Sep 22 20:24:07 last try... downgrading libmokoui Sep 22 20:25:03 re Sep 22 20:25:58 I figured as much, hehe... though I'd rather see a happy and relaxed Mickey than one who burns himself out even the last few hours before holidays ;) Sep 22 20:32:22 apt: botmail to thos: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/libmokoui/moko-stock.c?rev=3023&view=rev breaks all moko applications here. getting a Gtk-WARNING **: Useless empty GtkIconSource. Reverting libmokoui2 to 2708 fixes it. Sep 22 20:45:27 mickeyl: you are supposed to be on holiday you naughty boy! Sep 22 20:45:44 no no, not today Sep 22 20:45:45 tomorrow Sep 22 20:45:46 ;) Sep 22 20:45:57 :) Sep 22 20:46:00 1h 17 minutes left! Sep 22 20:46:06 I'm supposed to spend the remaining evening with my wife though Sep 22 20:46:37 mickeyl: You'll have two weeks for that, starting tomorrow :) Sep 22 20:46:37 mickeyl: you must be in bad books by now Sep 22 20:46:57 XorA|gone: indeed Sep 22 20:47:13 it's just that everything takes longer than expected Sep 22 20:47:14 everytime Sep 22 20:47:15 *sigh* Sep 22 20:47:16 * XorA|gone is lucky his wife is in Amsterdam Sep 22 20:47:32 It always does Sep 22 20:47:55 mickeyl: We'll leave plenty of bug reports in bugzilla for you until you're back ;) Sep 22 20:48:28 * CM goes out to party Sep 22 20:49:13 at your age? Sep 22 20:49:28 heh Sep 22 20:49:31 never too late to party Sep 22 20:49:50 to they allow zimmer frames in clubs? Sep 22 20:49:55 do Sep 22 20:52:13 ScaredyCat: goto Torture Garden, anything goes :-) Sep 22 20:52:35 heheh Sep 22 21:04:46 Is it just me that cannot hear the annoying bootup tune anymore? The sound is working (as alsactl restoring the stereoout state shows), but even copying the stereoout state over /etc/asound.state isn't enough to make it make noises Sep 22 21:05:45 cesarb: and your complaining? Sep 22 21:05:57 cesarb: rejoice in the lack of startup sound Sep 22 21:06:43 XorA: heh Sep 22 21:06:53 XorA: even then, it's a bug Sep 22 21:07:24 XorA: if we don't keep the annoying tune up, people won't have an incentive to make a preferences panel where you can chose WHICH annoying tune to use (or disable the tune altogether) Sep 22 21:07:29 XorA: it's all part of a plan :D Sep 22 21:18:24 i have an oe newbie question Sep 22 21:18:48 i'm trying to compile my application and put it in an ipk Sep 22 21:18:56 it has some libraries and some applications Sep 22 21:19:50 ah yep i was missing inherit autotools Sep 22 21:20:24 it's a long time that i don't play with oe Sep 22 21:22:47 thats the sort of newbie I like, solves their own problems :-D Sep 22 21:23:21 btw now i have another quesiton: is there a simple way to rebuild a package, i don't want to remove the stamp files Sep 22 21:23:52 bitbake blah -c rebuild Sep 22 21:24:07 thanks Sep 22 21:25:53 im playing around with the GSM module in u-boot terminal mode, and i sometimes get the first character of a response wrong. Sep 22 21:26:14 I.e instead of "OK" i get "TK" or "UK" Sep 22 21:26:51 also happening with the unsolicited responsed, "1CLIP" or "TCLIP" instead of "+CLIP" Sep 22 21:27:06 has anybody made a similar observation ? Sep 22 21:28:52 again: AT+CHLD=? Sep 22 21:28:53 1CHLD: (0,1,1x,2,2x,3,4) Sep 22 21:28:53 AT+CHLD=? Sep 22 21:28:53 +CHLD: (0,1,1x,2,2x,3,4) Sep 22 21:29:21 hm, could it be that the UART has trouble loking onto the startbit ? Sep 22 21:30:16 odd Sep 22 21:31:26 SpeedEvil: If this happens also when the kernel is booted, then it will trouble gsmd Sep 22 21:32:03 strace Sep 22 21:32:06 will tell you Sep 22 21:32:22 great idea, will do, thanks! Sep 22 21:41:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=[cheese] Sep 22 21:42:12 * hhf423 yawns Sep 22 21:42:48 <_diego__> (openmoko-dialer:1725): Pango-WARNING **: _pango_cairo_font_install called with bad font, expect ugly output Sep 22 21:42:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=cheese Sep 22 21:42:58 thseiler: file a bug report Sep 22 21:43:16 <_diego__> anyidea how to find what wrong? Sep 22 21:43:30 hhf423: Right now i try to reproduce this with the kernel running Sep 22 21:43:53 hhf423; Could be that the clocks are different under uboot and kernel Sep 22 21:44:38 hhf423: Maybe its just my setup here... Sep 22 21:44:53 http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3050 Sep 22 21:44:59 thseiler: which uboot are you using? Sep 22 21:45:24 newest (think it 1.3.0), the one that wouldn't boot execpt from aux menu Sep 22 21:45:52 !bug 777 Sep 22 21:46:02 ~bug 777 Sep 22 21:46:10 gah Sep 22 21:46:10 thseiler: well, it sounds like a thing one would find fast in testing Sep 22 21:46:22 !ombug 777 Sep 22 21:46:36 hhf423: its revision svn 2943 Sep 22 21:46:41 ~lart bugs Sep 22 21:46:42 * apt explains, ever so gently, that if bugs doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help Sep 22 21:47:00 hhf423: yes i've just booted back into openmoko Sep 22 21:49:53 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=777 Sep 22 21:50:45 when arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc is not found what's the issue? Sep 22 21:55:24 hhf423: hm, interestingly, im not able to reproduce the buggy behaviour from u-boot under kernel the kernel with libgsmd-tool -m atcmd Sep 22 21:56:50 so then its probably a uboot issue, no? Sep 22 21:57:32 hhf423: yep, think so Sep 22 21:58:01 maybe the are running with a different main clock than the kernel or something, more importantly this does not affect gsmd. Sep 22 22:03:43 <_diego__> where can i find a recend build of openmoko? Sep 22 22:04:00 _diego__: define "recent", 17. September? Sep 22 22:04:17 _diego__: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D Sep 22 22:04:58 <_diego__> should be enough recent ^^ Sep 22 22:06:09 <_diego__> i've build an image, but it doesn't look right, almost every character appears as a box Sep 22 22:07:13 <_diego__> it seems that some fonts are not installed Sep 22 22:07:15 that sounds broken Sep 22 22:08:01 * hhf423 is tired and will go to bed. Hopes for some good news tomorrow, like a new build. Sep 22 22:16:46 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] Sep 22 22:23:08 Does anyone know, if zdanek is coming again here? Sep 22 22:24:15 ~seen zdanek Sep 22 22:24:18 zdanek was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 1d 19m 58s ago, saying: 'cu'. Sep 22 22:24:51 I thought he was around today, but I guess I was mistaken Sep 22 22:34:24 mwester - Hmm, I wanted to talk a little about the chroot with him. Sep 22 22:34:24 cool!!! I've been able to port very easily my application Sep 22 22:35:48 i was not able to port it on n800 Sep 22 22:36:32 what chroot? Sep 22 22:39:21 SpeedEvil - the gllin chroot. zdanek created a nice .tar.gz for it. I have some ideas for this. Sep 22 22:39:49 ah Sep 22 22:48:08 does openmoko-devel-install build the linux-openmoko-devel or the linux-openmoko kernel? Sep 22 22:51:44 hmm. "finding" a copy of gllin is non-trivial. :)\ Sep 22 22:52:05 juri_, good luck Sep 22 22:56:43 thomasg: linux-openmoko Sep 22 22:57:23 juri: Yes, I suspect google will be of little help. :) Sep 22 22:58:48 mwester: thx Sep 22 23:06:54 mwester: it is of 0 help. such is life. :) Sep 22 23:10:14 maybe try some index of tricks Sep 22 23:20:29 does gllin run on .2? Sep 22 23:21:27 Not natively. Sep 22 23:21:34 you need to do chroot stuff. Sep 22 23:21:39 with parts of a .1 image Sep 22 23:29:16 hehe Sep 22 23:29:25 * niclone run emacs on his neo Sep 22 23:43:45 niclone - are you running emacs on the neo? Sep 22 23:44:07 cindy: yes (in console) Sep 22 23:46:15 * mwester finds "joe" to be close enough to emacs, and considerably smaller in footprint on the neo... Sep 22 23:46:34 Oh, what do I need to do to run emacs (if it isn't too much to explain) Sep 22 23:46:55 hehe, it need about 60MB ;) Sep 22 23:47:07 i had to put some parts on the sdcard Sep 22 23:47:40 cindy: well, i can give you the ipkg Sep 22 23:47:45 Yeah, joe might be fine but it is hard to for me to learn new habits, been using emacs since '85 or so Sep 22 23:47:50 cindy: or you can build it yourself Sep 22 23:48:14 joe includes "jmacs" which is emacs-compatible. Sep 22 23:48:18 cindy: if you have already play with mokomakefile Sep 22 23:49:07 I have played a little, just now starting to build my own app, but haven't gotten far yet. Sep 22 23:50:56 If you decide emacs is a bit too heavyweight, just bitbake joe, and copy the resulting ipkg file from the images directory structure to the neo. Easy. Sep 22 23:51:23 mwester: joe should be in the feeds Sep 22 23:51:27 (I too prefer emacs, but I can't devote 60MB to it on the little device!) Sep 22 23:51:53 i think you just have to do: make build-package-emacs Sep 22 23:52:00 wait... wait... a loooong time Sep 22 23:52:31 next, i've make a link of /usr/share/emacs --> /media/card/somewhere Sep 22 23:52:41 and then installed the .ipkg Sep 22 23:52:46 niclone: yeah, we tested the emacs build a couple of weeks ago, but didn't put it in the feed so people didn't hose their jffs2 installing it Sep 22 23:52:57 :) Sep 22 23:54:09 Ok thanks! I will do that. Though you have talked me into trying Joe too since I don't have tons of spare space. Sep 22 23:54:54 You can get 6 gigabyte microSDs now. Sep 22 23:56:16 Where? I could only find 4gb's. The 8gbs are coming out next spring Sep 22 23:56:31 I will have to get a 6G microSD - just to run emacs ;-) Sep 22 23:56:33 wow, that should be enough for emacs 23 :) Sep 22 23:58:02 someone mentioned it earlier Sep 22 23:58:07 last 6gb Sep 22 23:58:08 oops Sep 22 23:58:56 tomorrow my 6gb microSD will arrive :) Sep 22 23:59:51 strange size Sep 23 00:00:01 I assume 3*2GB chips Sep 23 00:00:21 but don't know how it really is Sep 23 00:03:12 after tested the speed of the neo to write on the sdcard, I assume you'll need about 5.6 day to fully fill it with the neo ;) Sep 23 00:06:02 niclone, hows the read speed on it? Sep 23 00:08:34 cb22_: about 3MB/s (and about 4x faster than writing) Sep 23 00:10:09 (and using 100% CPU) Sep 23 00:14:27 :/ Sep 23 00:14:41 the speeds nice, the cpu isn't Sep 23 00:15:14 well... it's a phone ;) Sep 23 00:15:21 no its not! Sep 23 00:15:24 lol Sep 23 00:15:37 it's a tiny computer Sep 23 00:42:25 niclone: The sd card is mounted with the "sync" option by default -- remount it without that and it runs several orders of magnitude faster. Sep 23 00:42:58 (The sync option is normal for such a card since it's usually removable, but in the case of the neo, well... Sep 23 00:43:03 ) Sep 23 00:46:39 mwester: oh, thanks, it write now as fast as it read :) Sep 23 01:09:07 yay. my openmoko is alive! :) Sep 23 01:44:35 ScaredyCat: At my age? :P I'm 28... ;) Sep 23 01:47:20 so.. the new media player just isn't working? :) Sep 23 01:47:38 and there appears to be no way to remove items from the playlist.... Sep 23 01:50:46 juri_: you actually expected it to WORK? Sep 23 01:50:50 juri_: Found any cupcake lately? Sep 23 01:53:48 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: [openmoko-announce] Help Request for our Webshop Sep 23 01:56:30 * mwester wonders what this frequent talk of pastries is all about Sep 23 01:56:48 mwester: Rumor has it that gllin has many names ;) Sep 23 01:57:02 A rose by any other name :) Sep 23 01:57:12 Hehe Sep 23 01:57:43 I haven't even tried to make a chroot yet Sep 23 02:04:32 Hmmm.. midori_0.0.6 doesn't build Sep 23 02:50:55 hm, why is the .tar-file so much bigger than the jffs2? is it compressed? Sep 23 02:51:10 (jffs2 I mean) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 23 02:59:56 2007