**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 26 02:59:56 2007 Sep 26 02:59:56 Yeah, though no one does that from what I've seen Sep 26 03:00:31 abraxa_: there's an automake target which generates the tarball, unpacks it, compiles it, and generates the tarball again, as a defense against forgetting to pack some files Sep 26 03:00:59 heh Sep 26 03:01:03 i have an att/cingular sim that is said to work on the wiki Sep 26 03:01:04 abraxa_: you know the reason why nobody can name a directory "aux"? or a source code file "con.c"? Sep 26 03:01:18 is it possible to activate it without buying a new phone? Sep 26 03:01:57 the wiki points to a link for prepaid plans but it seems to insist i select a phone Sep 26 03:02:12 cesarb: Because of Window's aux: and con: pipes? Sep 26 03:02:57 orzo: Call AT&T/Cingular customer service? Sep 26 03:03:10 eh Sep 26 03:03:11 bummer Sep 26 03:03:33 orzo: I wouldn't know, I'm just thinking that they could activate it for you, too Sep 26 03:03:38 should i insert the SIM and run a test before i activate? Sep 26 03:04:21 abraxa_: exactly... if you (like linus) don't care a bit about windows, you can (like linus) have files with names differing only in case in the same directory ;-) (ipt_*.c) Sep 26 03:05:06 orzo: Welp, testing whether it works is always a good thing ;) Sep 26 03:05:25 well i mean, is there a wiki page? Sep 26 03:05:29 heh Sep 26 03:05:57 cesarb: hehe... making life hard for Windows peeps? Yeah sure, why not Sep 26 03:06:14 orzo: I have no idea I'm afraid Sep 26 03:07:34 orzo: if it's not been activated yet, I'd borrow a friend's phone just to do the activation Sep 26 03:07:55 orzo: less chance of confusing people Sep 26 03:08:48 (of course, where I live there are plenty of people with GSM phones, and about 1/3 of them will be SIM-locked to the same carrier I want to activate, whichever I chose...) Sep 26 03:08:54 orzo, hi Sep 26 03:09:13 hi Sep 26 03:09:37 well i can stick it in my other phone Sep 26 03:10:01 they'll probably ask an IMEI number Sep 26 03:10:11 i guess i should tell them the neo number? Sep 26 03:10:28 my ohter phone is already activated on some other plan Sep 26 03:11:32 anybody got a pdf reader on their neo? Sep 26 03:12:00 no Sep 26 03:12:06 at least me Sep 26 03:12:10 orzo: uh? GSM SIMs are not, as far as I know, keyed to the IMEI... Sep 26 03:12:29 orzo: it's possible (it's there in the specs, you can lock a SIM to a phone), but I've never seen it done Sep 26 03:13:41 orzo: around here activating a SIM needs only a phone call (using the SIM itself) to a special number, and filling (by voice IIRC... the person on the other side types it all on the computer, but perhaps that was because the normal system was offline when I was buying mine) a form Sep 26 03:14:05 and the form filling is just a legal requirement for prepaid phones, so perhaps even that is not needed for non-prepaid Sep 26 03:14:57 i want to prepay if i can Sep 26 03:15:15 i went to an activation page for gophones Sep 26 03:15:24 it asked for the IMEI Sep 26 03:15:44 and then an activation pin which i didnt have since this isnt a go phone heh Sep 26 03:35:56 I followed the wiki instruction to use cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 to issue at commands Sep 26 03:36:01 how do i exit that program? Sep 26 03:36:09 ~. Sep 26 03:36:09 . Sep 26 03:36:16 heh heh... Sep 26 03:36:23 type "~." Sep 26 03:36:28 ok Sep 26 03:36:31 thanks Sep 26 03:36:39 that should go on the wiki Sep 26 03:36:55 I think it says it somewhere. Maybe on another page. Feel free to add it. Sep 26 03:40:05 mwester: I have removed the console statement from the boot args. Should I keep it removed? Sep 26 03:46:40 sagacis: if you don't have a debug board, there's no point to having the console defined in the boot args, AFAIK. Sep 26 03:47:55 mwester: Correct Sep 26 03:51:07 thanks. That's what I thought, so I've been removing it. Sep 26 03:55:54 Has anybody tried the 6gb micro sd in the neo yet? Sep 26 03:56:36 Ah, I see it on the wiki Sep 26 04:14:47 er... dfu-util isn't seeing the Neo :-( Sep 26 04:14:54 * lalo goes search the list Sep 26 04:14:57 * gcb77 resumes work on his almost-not-bricked NEO Sep 26 04:16:27 lalo: Does lsusb see it? Sep 26 04:16:50 lalo: You should see a device with ID 1457:5122 Sep 26 04:17:34 damn, I don't have lsusb. Let be go install it. Sep 26 04:17:41 I did just connect to u-boot with cu, tho Sep 26 04:18:10 lalo: If dfu-util doesn't see the Neo then you might want to force the device ID Sep 26 04:18:11 hey Frank Sep 26 04:18:35 abraxa_: tried that: "'No DFU capable USB device found" Sep 26 04:19:00 lalo: "dfu-util -a kernel -d 0x1457:0x5119 -R -D [file]", yes? Sep 26 04:19:05 (yes, I got the ID wrong before) Sep 26 04:19:07 right Sep 26 04:19:14 Hm. Sep 26 04:20:25 wha? There must be something wrong with my setup, lsusb displays nothing and returns 1 Sep 26 04:21:28 Sounds fishy indeed Sep 26 04:21:49 aha Sep 26 04:22:06 lalo: do you have the neo sitting in the boot menu? Sep 26 04:22:15 found the problem. I didn't have /proc/bus/usb (legacy usb interface) set up on the host Sep 26 04:22:19 rwhitby: yes Sep 26 04:22:30 don't worry, solved it, it seems Sep 26 04:23:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[GTA01_gsm_modem]] Sep 26 04:26:34 I finally got a good u-boot, but now I can't get any further... I flashed a kernel, file-system, splash, and env (using devirginate -2) Sep 26 04:26:48 The splash displays half-way and everything stops Sep 26 04:27:05 u-boot comes up ok, but only with the original 2 items (boot & factory reset) Sep 26 04:27:25 when I pick boot it comes up with "Press [AUX] to return" Sep 26 04:27:59 any ideas where to go from here? Sep 26 04:28:36 gcb77: bad uboot-env Sep 26 04:31:26 rwhitby: as in must run devirginate -0? or just flash a good u-boot? Sep 26 04:31:40 gcb77: no, uboot-env partition Sep 26 04:31:48 it needs a valid environment in there. Sep 26 04:32:01 (that's why your splash screen is only going half-way) Sep 26 04:32:30 and why you only have two items in the menu Sep 26 04:32:32 orzo, are you using USIM? Sep 26 04:32:49 yesterday I accidentally loaded a flash image at 0... would that affect the env or just RAM? Sep 26 04:33:32 i dont know what USIM is Sep 26 04:33:42 i didnt activate my sim yet btw Sep 26 04:33:47 may put it off to another day Sep 26 04:33:54 i did test it with at commands in teh phone tho Sep 26 04:33:58 it seems to work Sep 26 04:34:05 orzo, good. Sep 26 04:34:16 what's USIM? Sep 26 04:34:28 orzo, I'm willing to help you for trouble shooting with GSM firmware/gsmd. Sep 26 04:34:43 orzo, USIM is used for 2.5G network. Sep 26 04:34:59 you mean gprs? Sep 26 04:35:01 backward compatibility to 2G SIM card. Sep 26 04:35:36 mwester: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=892 - I CC'd Thomas. Let's see what he makes of it :) Sep 26 04:35:59 recently, openmoko internal organized a team for GSM related issues. Sep 26 04:36:25 it hopefully drives things faster. Sep 26 04:36:42 is there any hope the phase 1 phone will ever last more than 4 hours? Sep 26 04:37:07 there's lots of hope Sep 26 04:37:12 you have some, apparantly :o Sep 26 04:37:18 heh Sep 26 04:37:37 technically it should be able to Sep 26 04:37:45 as long as you treat it like a phone Sep 26 04:38:24 so Sep 26 04:38:31 not if i use it as an mp3 player Sep 26 04:38:32 heh Sep 26 04:38:41 that's marginal Sep 26 04:38:43 maybe, maybe not Sep 26 04:39:26 abraxa_: A patch, even - nice! Sep 26 04:40:47 I do grow concerned, as the list of outstanding patches grows, that some of this work may get lost. There seems to be no process to get patches evaluated and queued for inclusion. Sep 26 04:42:08 youve seen http://patches.openmoko.org/gsmd-devel/ ? Sep 26 04:42:38 its not yet getting used fully, but i think it already harvests the lists Sep 26 04:42:43 mwester: I know Mickey and the Braunschweig Connection go through the bugzilla every now and then so outstanding patches will be noticed, I'm sure Sep 26 04:44:13 well.. bbl... need to hurry home before the traffic Sep 26 04:47:45 re Sep 26 04:50:29 roh: Thanks for the URL - I didn't know of such a thing. How does information get onto that list - I notice that none of the recent patches that have beaten gsmd into submission are yet on that list... Sep 26 05:16:44 Is there any public preview of what the consumer version will look like? Sep 26 05:16:45 sam1am__: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 26 05:18:45 .. Sep 26 05:19:32 Aren't bots fun? Sep 26 05:19:42 moin Sep 26 05:19:50 moin moin Sep 26 05:19:51 Physically, it's pretty much identical to the current gta01 version. Sep 26 05:20:02 I see Sep 26 05:20:03 i guess it's identical Sep 26 05:20:14 what about the "5 new devices" being announced? Sep 26 05:20:23 (See, I did read the FAQ!) Sep 26 05:20:34 :) Then you know what we know. Sep 26 05:21:35 fair enough Sep 26 05:29:10 mwester: i think it just 'reads' the mailinglists Sep 26 05:29:52 Ah, ok. I guess then I'd best send some patches to the lists as well! :) Sep 26 05:57:07 mwester: have you released a new image? Sep 26 06:02:40 roh / mwester: Does anyone make use of the patch listings even? Sep 26 06:24:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Dfu-util]] Sep 26 06:24:15 abraxa_, if you made image by openembedded, you shall already have these patches builtin. Sep 26 06:30:51 jserv--: In that case it's a little unfortunate that all patches still say "New" Sep 26 06:31:27 abraxa_, yes, we just picked up in OE first. Sep 26 06:45:19 It's ALIVE!!! Sep 26 06:45:30 rwhitby: thank you again for all the help Sep 26 06:46:03 gcb77: congrats. how did you fix the env? Sep 26 06:46:57 heh, I was initially trying to flash a text file where I had copied/pasted from the uboot printenv Sep 26 06:47:19 eventually I realized I needed to run that perl script on it so it becomes the right-size data Sep 26 06:48:51 gcb77: You had a broken uboot_env too? Sep 26 06:48:57 It looks like whatever u-boot I ended up using supports booting from micro-sd card, so I might be able to set up dual-boot after all Sep 26 06:49:08 cool xrandr works :) Sep 26 06:49:34 actually, openmoko looks quite nice in landscape mode Sep 26 06:49:50 CM: I got really familiar with running phase 1 & 2 of the devirginator... I must have ran it 5 or 6 times from the script and a couple of times by hand Sep 26 06:50:56 Actually, come to think of it, this env doesn't look anything like my old env... It must have downloaded it from somewher Sep 26 06:50:57 gcb77: I don't have a debugboard, but my boot_env have been broken from the start. just doing a dd over /dev/mtdblock1 worked a few times, but now that's broken too. Guess I'll have to live wit hthat Sep 26 06:52:09 is there any fix for the annoying "unable to ... antenna" Sep 26 06:52:34 CM: avoid having to use the debug-board, or have someone w/ experience guide you when you get there. It was a really scary/uneasy couple of days Sep 26 06:52:43 *nod* Sep 26 06:53:12 I'll try to get around it some other way Sep 26 06:57:21 good morning Sep 26 07:25:38 * rwhitby adds the dfu-util package to OpenWrt so that everyone can flash their Neo's from their router-with-usb-port. Sep 26 08:00:49 g'day Sep 26 08:02:15 gday Sep 26 08:24:48 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973/fr]] Sep 26 10:24:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Neo1973]] Sep 26 11:11:23 CM: if your uboot-env is broken, but you can get into linux, just get a working uboot-env from someone with a similar partition setup and use dd to copy it over your broken one Sep 26 11:11:41 CM: it worked for someone else in this channel (scaredycat IIRC) Sep 26 11:12:36 yes - iirc he's tried the mdtblock thing.. at least I explained how to do it and gave him the file.. Sep 26 11:12:48 but I think your scrollback is long ; Sep 26 11:12:52 ;) Sep 26 11:16:05 :P Sep 26 11:16:17 cesarb: I did that maybe 5 times Sep 26 11:16:36 Because every time I flashed a new kernel, it overwrote the uboot-env Sep 26 11:17:16 And the last 3-4 times I've tried to scp it over to the neo and replace it with dd, it hasn't worked Sep 26 11:17:36 So I'm constantly booting using Factory reset Sep 26 11:17:38 CM: strange, flashing a kernel shouldn't overwrite the uboot-env Sep 26 11:17:44 I know Sep 26 11:17:51 CM: *very* strange Sep 26 11:18:02 CM: is your "mtdparts" output sane? Sep 26 11:18:06 I think I had a bad uboot before, but I changed it to the official .08 version Sep 26 11:18:16 I think it is, haven't touched any of that Sep 26 11:20:12 cesarb: At least I think it's the kernel, since it broke every time I flashed a new one. Sep 26 11:20:33 The dump of mtblock1 when broken looked like this: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/broken/mtdblock1.bin Sep 26 11:21:10 Doesn't look anything like the working one I got from ScaredyCat Sep 26 11:21:33 Anyway, I'll try to investigate it more next week :) Sep 26 11:21:36 CM: that's no uboot-env, that's a kernel image! Sep 26 11:22:08 cesarb: Exactly. But the weird thing is that it does boot the new kernel Sep 26 11:22:43 And I'm using dfu just as the wiki says Sep 26 11:23:12 CM: I'd recover the uboot-env part (again), switch to USB console, and check the output of the command which shows the partitions (mtdparts IIRC) and the command which shows the environment offset (don't recall it right now), and see if the output looks sane Sep 26 11:23:23 *nod* Sep 26 11:23:24 Thanks Sep 26 11:24:00 CM: it's possible that the environment offset and the partition table are not agreeing one with the other... (the partition table is an environment variable, and so the environment offset itself is well hidden somewhere else safe) Sep 26 11:24:00 But the problem is that the last 3-4 times I've tried overwriting uboot-env it hasn't worked, so I can't connect with minicom Sep 26 11:24:19 Hmm.. Sounds like something like that can be it Sep 26 11:24:23 CM: that could happen if the environment offset doesn't match the partition table ;-) Sep 26 11:24:33 CM: so you are overwriting the wrong thing Sep 26 11:24:38 Probably the same reason I always get "Bad magic number" Sep 26 11:24:51 So the only way to boot is using Factory Reset Sep 26 11:31:07 hey guys - Ralph is here again :) - you happy ? Sep 26 11:31:26 however, dudes Sep 26 11:31:51 what is going on with our gsmd? Sep 26 11:32:06 someone working on it lately? Sep 26 11:32:30 There has been progress in recent days. Sep 26 11:32:43 The patches should hopefully turn up in the released images soon Sep 26 11:32:57 really? do i have this progress in my build, updated yesterday? Sep 26 11:34:22 dunno Sep 26 11:34:27 I've not been following it closley. Sep 26 11:34:31 CM: my attempts at flashing the qemu image are timing out, but I think the command I'm looking for is "dynpart get" Sep 26 11:34:36 Just been noting that there have been resolved problems. Sep 26 11:34:54 SpeedEvil: mwester fixed gsmd Sep 26 11:34:55 well i have been browsing the qtopia code for how they did the job and i must confess, they have done a good job Sep 26 11:35:19 how about different hardware vendors? Sep 26 11:35:21 cesarb: yes Sep 26 11:35:42 CM: oops, sorry, "dynenv get" Sep 26 11:35:52 cesarb: I'm just not aware if it's made it into the source tre, or inot th released images Sep 26 11:36:28 well, i know we are hacking the neo first, but don't we want this running other chellphones too? Sep 26 11:36:31 SpeedEvil: dunno about the images, but the thing which fixed it (disabling echo with stty in the init script) was put directly in OE Sep 26 11:36:51 OE? Sep 26 11:38:27 in stty code? Sep 26 11:54:18 ok - sorry: there is a "plugin-slot" implemented in gsmd - i saw it before Sep 26 12:23:39 * ScaredyCat dances.. Sep 26 12:23:46 * ScaredyCat prods ljp Sep 26 12:23:57 * ScaredyCat throws cheese at CM Sep 26 12:24:06 * CM loves cheese Sep 26 12:24:21 What's up? Why the joy? Sep 26 12:24:33 too much coffee Sep 26 12:25:09 Hehe Sep 26 12:26:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Mokopedia]] Sep 26 12:26:32 so, my topia neo died while off somewhere >48hours Sep 26 12:27:03 that included 4 boots... to see if it was alive still Sep 26 12:28:05 * ScaredyCat is now building 3 images each time... Sep 26 13:06:34 hi Sep 26 13:09:23 if my Neo tells me "No soundcards found"... is that a software problem or my phone? Sep 26 13:10:18 I'd guess software Sep 26 13:10:33 Possibly the wrong modules for the kernel you're using Sep 26 13:11:20 so what can i do about it? Sep 26 13:11:21 wansti: during boot it always does that. I think the modules are loaded later Sep 26 13:13:31 what module do i have to load, then? Sep 26 13:14:14 wansti: if you have the right kernel for the rootfs, they will load automatically Sep 26 13:14:23 if lsmod says no modules of any kind, then you have the wrong kernel for the rootfs Sep 26 13:15:04 i downloaded the latest uImage and devel-image from the build host Sep 26 13:15:37 Ok, then maye you need a alsactl -f /etc/.state restore or so? Sep 26 13:15:46 Or just run alsamixer and unmute Sep 26 13:15:46 uname -r and ls /lib/modules both tell me "2.6.22.5-moko11" Sep 26 13:15:59 And lsmod lists some modules? Sep 26 13:16:02 CM: i get the error message when i try to run alsactl Sep 26 13:16:10 Oh.. Hmm. Sep 26 13:16:24 lsmod only lists vfat, bluetooth and a few others Sep 26 13:16:30 nothing sound-related, apparently Sep 26 13:16:45 Weird. Is alsa started? Sep 26 13:17:26 probably not... i can't start it without sound cards Sep 26 13:18:34 Does lspci work on the neo? Sep 26 13:18:59 no i don't think so Sep 26 13:21:32 afk for 15... Sep 26 13:25:20 roflmao! Sep 26 13:25:21 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=../../../../../../../../..//usr/local/apache/conf/ssl.key/www.adobe.com.key%00 Sep 26 13:25:50 he heh Sep 26 13:26:06 use that to fetch /etc/shadow :-D Sep 26 13:26:11 lol Sep 26 13:26:19 hehe Sep 26 13:28:21 Hehe.. Sep 26 13:28:49 not all you need is the .crt .. Sep 26 13:29:42 * CM fetches some coffee instead Sep 26 13:35:41 is the design for gta02 already finished? Sep 26 13:35:50 ok, I dont get it, I have transfered some executable to the device, but when I run ./myexe it says: -sh: myexe: not found Sep 26 13:35:58 why? Sep 26 13:35:59 ace: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 26 13:37:14 just to check: does it have executable flag on? Sep 26 13:37:23 yes Sep 26 13:37:28 chmod a+x myexe Sep 26 13:37:36 still no luck Sep 26 13:37:50 sounds like invalid format Sep 26 13:37:59 do file blah.exe Sep 26 13:38:19 -sh: file: not found :) Sep 26 13:38:29 ;) Sep 26 13:38:49 ace: file is not installed on the moko Sep 26 13:38:58 ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1, for GNU/Linux 2.4.3, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped Sep 26 13:39:00 well Sep 26 13:39:04 I have ssh in Sep 26 13:39:15 ace: maybe you are missing some libraries. try using ldd on that exe on the moko Sep 26 13:39:32 ldd not found Sep 26 13:40:17 uh, "not a dynamic executable" Sep 26 13:40:45 crosscompiled with /arm-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc-3.4.2-glibc-2.3.3/bin/arm-unknown-linux-gnu-gc Sep 26 13:40:54 ace: ipkg install ldd ? Sep 26 13:40:59 thing is, worked on older openmoko patch Sep 26 13:41:28 ace: there was an EABI change between 2007.1 and 2007.2 Sep 26 13:42:24 hmm, cant access internet from it.. Sep 26 13:45:24 ace: if it worked on old, then you need to either: 1) recompile it for EABI or 2) chroot it and libraries it needs Sep 26 13:46:40 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc ? Sep 26 13:50:00 lol.. Sep 26 13:50:33 has anyone read that zd.net article about linux crashing into the mobile-sector?? Very funny indeed.. Must've been sponsored by motorola.. not a WORD about OM... Sep 26 13:50:51 not even anything about a googlephone... Sep 26 13:51:01 riot: well to be fair motorola does have millions of linux phones in the market Sep 26 13:51:03 OM is irrelevant. Sep 26 13:51:09 At the moment. Sep 26 13:51:22 99.999% of deployed linux phones are non-OM Sep 26 13:51:46 hmm. Yet, i'd argue, that OM is the fastest developing of 'em all. Or am i wrong? Sep 26 13:52:07 Well - hard to say. Sep 26 13:52:14 riot: well thats true, but then to go from 0 to any number is an infinite improvement :-) Sep 26 13:52:19 gphone has not been released Sep 26 13:52:20 I don't see any real opensource motorola dev-group... Sep 26 13:52:42 riot: there isn't. Sep 26 13:53:40 lol.. too funny.. this LiMo-foundation.. seems to consist of Corps only! Hahahaha.. they'll never succeed Sep 26 13:54:08 Well. There are two sorts of linux phone. Sep 26 13:54:25 A) locked-in phones that use it to avoid paying a symbian or wince license fee. Sep 26 13:54:36 B) actual open phones. Sep 26 13:54:40 yep, corporates and REALLY open ones. Sep 26 13:54:55 imho, only the open systems will succeed in the long term. Sep 26 13:55:08 Hard to say. Sep 26 13:55:19 Possibly in the far long term. Sep 26 13:55:21 I hope gpl-violations will have much fun with them.. Sep 26 13:55:23 Timescale is hard to say. Sep 26 13:55:32 it's not a gpl violation to lock down the phone. Sep 26 13:55:37 yes. Same as with desktop-linux. Sep 26 13:55:38 At the moment - at least. Sep 26 13:56:05 no, not that, but i'm sure, they'll make some critical mistakes in this direction. It's too tempting for greedy corps.. Sep 26 13:56:11 You can have a completely opensource phone, but have hardware keys to it that the owner does not get, so they can't install softeware. Sep 26 13:57:07 And this is completely legal according to the GPL. Sep 26 13:57:17 openmoko: 03thomas * r3041 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c): Sep 26 13:57:17 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: (_moko_stock_add_icon): Attempt to fix a Sep 26 13:57:17 openmoko: segfault in moko_stock_register() Sep 26 13:57:18 (at least at the moment) Sep 26 13:58:01 Hmm, yeah. But with regard to those many many unlocked iphones, i don't think that is what customers really want. Sep 26 13:58:14 ok, most customers won't care.. Sep 26 13:58:29 I wonder what that bricking FUD is all about Sep 26 13:58:36 CM: $$$ Sep 26 13:58:39 I personally have no problem with locked-down phones. As long as the user is informed. Sep 26 13:59:05 Sure, they don't want people to unlock it. But I can't imagine that they'll be able to brick all unlocked phones permanently Sep 26 13:59:34 It's not especially hard to make an uncrackable phone. Sep 26 13:59:48 It's just a couple of extra dollars on parts. Sep 26 13:59:51 anyone here know a good place for all these crosscompilers? Sep 26 13:59:53 And some design effort. Sep 26 14:00:07 /dev/null Sep 26 14:00:10 ace: what crosscompilers? Sep 26 14:00:19 to build for the moko Sep 26 14:00:49 ace: whereever the normal tree puts them works to build the OM image. Sep 26 14:00:58 you don't have to 'put' them anywhere. Sep 26 14:01:05 ace: Are you using OE? Sep 26 14:01:33 OE? Sep 26 14:01:39 OpenEmbedded Sep 26 14:01:40 OpenEmbedded Sep 26 14:01:43 lol Sep 26 14:01:45 The normal build platform for OM Sep 26 14:01:54 I think you need to look at the wiki ace Sep 26 14:01:55 * CM pinches SpeedEvil with his slow fingers Sep 26 14:02:31 oh, that Sep 26 14:02:44 no, Im not :) Sep 26 14:02:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile - probably is worth a look ace Sep 26 14:03:09 that was waay to much when I wanted to build my own exe Sep 26 14:03:51 dl the qtopia x compile toolchain Sep 26 14:04:28 provided you don;t want ot do x stuff Sep 26 14:04:56 * SpeedEvil rearranges the letters fruitlessly. Sep 26 14:05:19 What about http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-September/001560.html Sep 26 14:05:56 ace: Oups, sorry.. That's for gtk testing, not cross compile Sep 26 14:06:34 * CM should finish reading the mails first Sep 26 14:06:44 bedboi: Yes, a new image is availalbe, with all the gsmd fixes and the dialer fix Sep 26 14:07:22 alright, testing this other crosscompiler now.. Sep 26 14:07:33 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc :) Sep 26 14:08:05 FuzzyCat, lol i reposted that link in one of my IRC channels Sep 26 14:08:15 and it sparked off 10 or so people pasting other ones Sep 26 14:09:22 crap Sep 26 14:09:29 "Illegal Instruction" Sep 26 14:10:45 * CM sneaks away for a 4-day vacation Sep 26 14:12:02 Wave. Sep 26 14:12:59 * ScaredyCat suggests taking a laptop to charge your neo CM Sep 26 14:18:12 any uImage out with the terminal fixes yet? Sep 26 14:19:19 hey! Sep 26 14:19:23 maybe I can use http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/cross/ ? Sep 26 14:20:30 sannes: what terminal fixes do you refer to? Sep 26 14:26:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Sep 26 14:27:34 re Sep 26 14:28:27 mwester: The http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 one? Sep 26 14:29:11 openmoko: 03thomas * r3042 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c): Sep 26 14:29:11 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: (_moko_stock_add_icon): Don't create empty Sep 26 14:29:11 openmoko: GtkIconSources Sep 26 14:34:39 mwester: I'm actually a bit confused are there two issues or one issue? One with echo and one with a hardlock ? Sep 26 14:38:51 mwester: the -echo things works pretty well for me, it starts up all of the times I have tired thus far, but it still died later one time after I stressed it a little .. hm Sep 26 14:40:39 sannes: Yes, there are multiple issues. Sep 26 14:41:58 I haven't attemped any stress tests, so I'm sure there are many more issues in the code. The latest patch (stty -echo) is simply to get it to start reliably. Sep 26 14:43:42 I don't think there are any "official" images with the fixes; we haven't had an official image for a number of weeks now. I have an image with these (and a few other) fixes: http://www.mwester.net/moko Sep 26 14:44:34 are your patches ommited? Sep 26 14:44:37 committed Sep 26 14:45:07 committed to what? Sep 26 14:45:24 mwester: Heh, an annoying issue I noticed is that if I call the neo and hang up right away, the ring tone + vibrations just continues on and on and on :P Sep 26 14:45:26 svn Sep 26 14:46:37 The "workaround" patches to /etc/init.d/gsmd are commited to the OE repository. I have no access to SVN, and I'm still trying to figure out the official process to getting patches into the system. Sep 26 14:47:06 Roh provided some pointers yesterday, I guess I need to send them to a mailing list in addition to (or instead of) bugzilla. Sep 26 14:56:24 openmoko: 03wansti * r3043 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/ (3 files): new ringtone Sep 26 15:00:10 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3044 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/ (3 files): Copy ringtone to current directory Sep 26 15:04:20 neo now drawing 630ma from USB - so much for meeting the USB specs! Sep 26 15:04:49 Writchie, what's it doing? Sep 26 15:05:21 it was idle in my bag for two days, just plugged it in and it started charging at 630ma and then booted up Sep 26 15:05:32 still charging at 630ma Sep 26 15:05:35 Writchie, thats odd.. Sep 26 15:05:38 how are you measuring that? Sep 26 15:05:50 using lsusb or something? Sep 26 15:05:52 And have you fiddled with any specs? Sep 26 15:05:54 those tend to lie Sep 26 15:05:56 lsusb can't tell you Sep 26 15:06:04 at least in most cases. Sep 26 15:06:11 DVM in series with +5 usb - haven't changed a single thing Sep 26 15:06:12 windows told me my external 120gb laptop hdd was using 90mw Sep 26 15:06:22 Writchie: fair enough. Sep 26 15:06:41 i just unplugged one neo and put the other one in expected to find the battery flat Sep 26 15:07:11 Writchie: have you been fiddling with any settings? Sep 26 15:07:41 nothing on that device Sep 26 15:07:57 so, some neo's like 50ma, others like 650... Sep 26 15:08:14 SpeedEvil: in fact I was getting ready to test my fix to the 50ma problem ! Sep 26 15:08:19 :) Sep 26 15:08:44 i'd rather have mine use 650 then 50, thats for sure! Sep 26 15:08:51 at least it will charge with GSM on Sep 26 15:09:21 I have the fix for the 50ma to at least make it 100ma, - it was a bug in u-boot Sep 26 15:10:36 6500! I want it to charge in 10 mins. Sep 26 15:10:38 pulled usb and re-inserted - still at 620ma. Sep 26 15:10:58 me too - fast charger with fan Sep 26 15:11:01 Writchie: Odd. Sep 26 15:11:03 2C Sep 26 15:11:10 There are actually cells that can do that. Sep 26 15:11:17 But they are 1/2 the capacity or so. Sep 26 15:11:27 SpeedEvil: You're too conservative. 65A - charge in 1 min. Sep 26 15:11:30 NimH is pretty good for that Sep 26 15:11:39 No - not NiMH - lithium-ion Sep 26 15:11:40 but i'll take 1C for now Sep 26 15:11:55 the neo battery is actually pretty good Sep 26 15:12:03 There are a new breed of cells coming out - from 'a123' - they are in some Dewalt power tools. Sep 26 15:12:04 Writchie, so, you can actually tweak how much power the neo draws? Sep 26 15:12:23 A 25mm * 50mm long cell can provide 70A at 3V Sep 26 15:12:32 And that's the 'continuous' rate Sep 26 15:12:36 120A pulse Sep 26 15:12:39 cb22: the fast charge level is set by resistors on the hardware Sep 26 15:12:56 but the slow charge level is adjustable? Sep 26 15:13:08 as a proportion of the fast rate Sep 26 15:13:12 but you can set the trickle/precharge in the PM chip in 0.05 * fastcharge increments Sep 26 15:13:20 nifty Sep 26 15:13:44 * cb22 imagines the option: 'Voilate USB Spec, but charge faster when off (WARNING: MAY NOT WORK)' Sep 26 15:13:47 the defaults are set (correctly) for 0.1C assuming you fast charge at 1C Sep 26 15:14:00 but the neo fast charges at 0.5C Sep 26 15:14:12 less than 0.5C Sep 26 15:14:26 as in most cases, when it's on, it's using a large fraction of the power Sep 26 15:14:27 I would guess about 0.43 Sep 26 15:15:12 it would be nice to have the actual schematics Sep 26 15:15:15 Initially, it may be >input current charging - due to the lower voltage. Sep 26 15:15:22 and the step-down converter Sep 26 15:15:50 i'm not actually sure what mode the battery charger operates in or how efficient Sep 26 15:15:57 That's a point. Sep 26 15:16:13 I don't actually know it's a buck converter. May be dropping it over an R or something Sep 26 15:18:07 SpeedEvil: looks like a FET in linear mode Sep 26 15:19:55 how can I turn off X11 to start up when booting? Sep 26 15:20:18 Splash screen, or you just want the GUI to not start at all? Sep 26 15:20:29 well, GUI Sep 26 15:20:34 but splash is interesting too Sep 26 15:20:36 :) Sep 26 15:20:56 I went back to 2007.01 to make my exe run again Sep 26 15:21:56 You can change some command line parameters when you boot, or you can just rename the startup files in /etc/init.d Sep 26 15:22:42 where exatcly? Sep 26 15:24:09 Not sure on the 2007.01 image. /etc/init.d/xsomethingorother on the current image. Sep 26 15:24:30 /etc/init.d/X11? Sep 26 15:24:44 woops Sep 26 15:24:57 /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm Sep 26 15:24:58 ? Sep 26 15:25:08 The last one is more likely. Sep 26 15:25:30 what to do with the file? Sep 26 15:25:35 Rename it. Sep 26 15:26:26 I just added exit 0 in the beginning :) Sep 26 15:26:55 Ok, that'll work too. Sep 26 15:26:55 where does it say that this particular file is supposed to run? Sep 26 15:27:07 isnt it enough that its in the directory? Sep 26 15:27:24 This is part of the standard Linux boot process. Sep 26 15:28:12 Symlinks in the /etc/rc.d directories point to these files, the startup runs the files based on the names of the symlinks in the appropriate rc.d directory. Sep 26 15:29:09 just made a perfect call and sms during call - no problems, no echo, no gsm packet burst noise! Just need working PM and neo will be usable as a phone! Sep 26 15:29:24 aha Sep 26 15:30:10 Writchie: which base image, and what are the magic patches for all that? Sep 26 15:30:19 ace: typically you just rename the link from /etc/rc5.d/Snn to /etc/rc5.d/Knn Sep 26 15:30:28 mwester: just stock qtopia Sep 26 15:30:44 ok Sep 26 15:30:45 Ah, ok - I thought you meant OpenMoko. :( Sep 26 15:31:09 the only magic was setting the mixer setting for sidetone using alsamixer and and added a state restore - as posted on the wiki Sep 26 15:31:32 mwester: and turning suspend off - Sep 26 15:32:39 mwester: expected batter life 2 -3 hours Sep 26 15:33:16 mwester: lots of little things not working - but it is usuable as a phone. Sep 26 15:35:07 SpeedEvil: I'm wondering if backup battery could have gone dead and lost settings in PM chip? Sep 26 15:36:12 I'm pretty clumsy. Anyone know how rugged the Neo1973 is? Sep 26 15:37:44 psymin: pretty similar to other smartphones Sep 26 15:38:46 OK: now the slow charge is 60ma and the fast-charge 600ma Sep 26 15:41:49 my bad! Keeping DVM in the loop for all these weeks has caused its battery to go flat leading to false readings. Sep 26 15:47:39 :) Sep 26 15:49:18 BTW - pictures on neo are gorgeous Sep 26 15:51:49 We need to create some alternate themes. The brown neo thing doesn't do justice to the display! Sep 26 15:51:59 At least wallpaper, to start. Sep 26 15:52:03 avk Sep 26 15:52:07 ack Sep 26 15:53:19 mwester: priority should remain on basics Sep 26 15:54:28 Yeah, but when your head is about to explode from wading through code, it's sometimes fun to do something just for aesthetics and nothing more... :) Sep 26 16:00:03 mwester: ;) Sep 26 16:00:48 hmmm: everytime I access voicemail I get a blank SMS from the VM server - must be a binary message not handled by qtopia Sep 26 16:02:02 sup folks Sep 26 16:05:36 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3045 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/ (. patches/): Copy 2.6.22.x patches as a base for 2.6.23.x Sep 26 16:07:30 mwester: please do that. Sep 26 16:07:35 make a nice theme. Sep 26 16:07:39 or steal the one from qtopia.. Sep 26 16:08:02 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3046 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (16 files): Resync with 2.6.23-rc8 Sep 26 16:09:53 Hmm... looks like a kernel upgrade is in the works, perhaps. Sep 26 16:10:31 I need to find the person(s) who can push a few kernel patches into that kernel upgrade. Sep 26 16:11:03 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3047 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (3 files): Drop patches which have been merged Sep 26 16:12:52 mwester, which patches? Sep 26 16:13:50 Shoragan: High on the list would be the one in bug 788 Sep 26 16:14:56 Shoragan: I'd also like to include a kexec patch (to make kexec actually work, since we have it enabled in the kernel) Sep 26 16:15:26 Shoragan: I can provide the patches, or even commit them as patches to the current kernel in OE. Sep 26 16:16:03 bug 788 will have to wait for haralds review Sep 26 16:16:13 That's sort of what I thought. Sep 26 16:16:53 As long as it's on somebody's list so that it doesn't get lost -- the current workaround is fragile, at best. Sep 26 16:17:18 it won't get lost, harald is just busy right now Sep 26 16:17:45 Ok. So, should I open a bug and attach the kexec patches, or is there an email alias I should use instead? Sep 26 16:17:51 if you have a patch for kexec, please post it to the bugzilla Sep 26 16:18:00 Ok. Sep 26 16:18:03 or post it the the kernel list Sep 26 16:18:09 both should be file Sep 26 16:18:10 fine Sep 26 16:23:53 Anyone know when the GTA02 will become available? Sep 26 16:24:33 I'm kind of going insane with anticipation Sep 26 16:24:49 when it's done Sep 26 16:24:59 wishful thinking goes that around Christmas Sep 26 16:25:13 even for the developer version? Sep 26 16:25:56 maybe not Sep 26 16:25:59 Last word we had from FIC said october, is that out the window for a developer release for sure? Sep 26 16:26:12 i'm thinking so Sep 26 16:26:25 though i haven't been following the news that actively lately Sep 26 16:26:48 (script) planet: Thomas Wood: (Partial) TV Fame http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2007/09/26/partial-tv-fame/ Sep 26 16:26:48 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Java]] Sep 26 16:32:06 guaqua:that's the thing, I don't think their has been any news :( Sep 26 16:34:47 mrcucumber: one of the openmoko guys said december in a speech at a recent event. Sep 26 16:34:53 in germany I think. Sep 26 16:35:34 December!? ugggggg Sep 26 16:36:11 hrm... this time openembedded fails to build glib Sep 26 16:44:07 mwester: there? Sep 26 16:44:13 can you give me the links? Sep 26 16:48:46 http://moko.mwester.net/ Sep 26 16:48:50 (should work) Sep 26 16:50:13 how can i install a image from buildhost on qemu? Sep 26 17:11:18 hi Sep 26 17:11:34 i havent been doing so much with the neo Sep 26 17:11:57 i put mpd on it and made a gtk mpd client for playing mp3s and oggs Sep 26 17:12:15 anybody have any interest in that? Sep 26 17:12:27 just figure i should share something heh Sep 26 17:13:27 it makes 4 big buttons and displays the song title Sep 26 17:13:47 it should probably be extended to allow editing the playlist and such Sep 26 17:14:07 i don't like the openmoko interface very much Sep 26 17:14:12 orzo: sounds nice. Got an ipkg? Sep 26 17:14:22 not, no i didnt package it Sep 26 17:14:35 is it in c? Sep 26 17:14:39 ya Sep 26 17:14:46 or c++ Sep 26 17:14:48 i think it was c++ Sep 26 17:14:53 but its just gtk if so Sep 26 17:14:59 not gtk-- or something Sep 26 17:15:40 give me an email and i'll send you teh source later Sep 26 17:15:43 its not handy at the moment Sep 26 17:16:04 orzo: how hard would it be to extend that client to xmms2 you think? Sep 26 17:16:48 does xmms2 provide a c library for playing pausing and skipping back and forward to the next song? Sep 26 17:16:56 if so, it would probably be pretty trivial Sep 26 17:17:18 orzo: it does Sep 26 17:17:45 ok Sep 26 17:17:58 so you guys want me to put this up somewhere Sep 26 17:18:02 maybe package it Sep 26 17:18:06 orzo: yes please Sep 26 17:18:20 ok Sep 26 17:18:27 probably this weekend Sep 26 17:18:58 do we already have a central place to host these projects? Sep 26 17:20:37 orzo: I guess you could use projects.openmoko.org, but I'm personally really not a fan of gforge Sep 26 17:21:45 orzo: are you looking for code hosting and such, or just a place to mention it so people can find it? Sep 26 17:22:05 both Sep 26 17:22:09 is there a wiki page? Sep 26 17:22:57 it's pretty basic right now, not fancy at all Sep 26 17:23:05 orzo: if there is I don't know it, but it _is_ a wiki ;) Sep 26 17:23:25 ok Sep 26 17:24:27 i was thinking to add a button that would just put the entire music library into the current playlist Sep 26 17:24:41 or maybe just make it do that on start up if the playlist is empty Sep 26 17:25:54 ultimately i was thinking it could work with other mpd daemons to search songs and sync with external databases Sep 26 17:26:18 maybe that's overkill Sep 26 17:26:18 heh Sep 26 17:27:28 i suppose when the next set of phones come out, it would be handy to use as a remote for a desktop playing music Sep 26 17:27:56 i dont have bluetooth so its not handy for that currently Sep 26 17:27:58 heh Sep 26 17:28:55 does anybody have any hacks to make the neo last longer away from a charger? Sep 26 17:28:55 orzo: that is exactly why I want xmms2 support Sep 26 17:29:23 is xmms2 more conducive to that use than mpd? Sep 26 17:29:31 i've not used xmms2 Sep 26 17:31:17 the syncing would be more useful to me currently Sep 26 17:32:52 orzo: om.riot@resisty.org thanks yer Sep 26 17:33:10 orzo: or post a link :) Sep 26 17:33:52 ok Sep 26 17:36:31 i'd like a gui interface for controlling the backlight and a simpler way to manage the speakers than the console ap alsamixer Sep 26 17:36:55 there's a prefs app being written Sep 26 17:37:01 i've seen shots at scap Sep 26 17:37:32 scap? Sep 26 17:41:22 i'd like a full screen stroke recognizer Sep 26 17:41:54 I'd like the stroke thingy to support rotational trimming Sep 26 17:42:11 well i want it to be over the top of the aps Sep 26 17:42:16 instead of a seperate blank pad Sep 26 17:42:19 that too Sep 26 17:42:34 is there a plan for that? Sep 26 17:42:38 dunno Sep 26 17:44:35 i'm not on any mailing list heh Sep 26 17:44:55 is there a list where they announce new official test images we can install? Sep 26 18:27:49 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[User:Ttz]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Sep 26 18:30:40 mwester: hmmm Sep 26 18:30:47 i'm just checking your image Sep 26 18:32:25 it seems not to work Sep 26 18:32:40 it boots but it's not getting input from the touch screen Sep 26 18:37:10 bedboi: did you check the md5sum? Sep 26 18:43:32 yep Sep 26 18:43:34 it's correct Sep 26 18:44:02 orzo: im interested in the same thing - there's a page on the wiki with input method ideas, I think its already mentioned there, if not add it! Sep 26 18:45:45 i can't access ssh Sep 26 18:46:03 orzo: i compiled glurp for the neo but its not nice, i think there are some ugly hard-coded sizes in it that mean it doesnt fit the screen well.. Sep 26 18:46:05 bedboi: what can I say? "It Works For Me(tm)" Sep 26 18:46:08 ehehe Sep 26 18:46:10 let's see Sep 26 18:50:03 Did you do the "nand erase rootfs" prior to flashing the new rootfs? Sep 26 18:51:16 http://www.cartoonbank.com/assets/1/120707_m.gif Sep 26 18:51:17 lol Sep 26 18:51:31 the loop Sep 26 19:00:30 mwester: it's very weird Sep 26 19:07:07 bedboi: did you flash _both_ the kernel and the jffs2? Sep 26 19:07:19 OH MY GOD Sep 26 19:07:21 :) Sep 26 19:07:35 mwester: blame me please Sep 26 19:07:43 i'm working too much Sep 26 19:07:52 16 hrs/day it's too much Sep 26 19:08:49 hehe! Were you running the old 2.6.21 kernel, or the 2.6.22 kernel? Sep 26 19:09:17 I know the modules won't match on the old 2.6.21, but I'm not sure if they'll work with the generic 2.6.22 kernel... Sep 26 19:10:17 no .22 Sep 26 19:10:25 but not yours Sep 26 19:11:53 Ok. Yep, I bumped the PR # in the kernel recipe - the actual modules should be identical. Sep 26 19:12:05 yep Sep 26 19:12:26 i got confused because the file name was the same Sep 26 19:12:58 * mwester goes to look... Sep 26 19:14:14 man it's still the same Sep 26 19:14:35 Yeah, I see -- only the kernel has the R2.1 string in it, so there's no obvious difference in the JFFS image that marks the kernel that the modules in the image match. Sep 26 19:15:36 I'll make a note to not bump the kernel PR next time, so that the generic kernel will work with the jffs2 image (although the kernel patches won't be there, of course). Sep 26 19:15:40 i have to fist flash the kernel and then the jffs2 Sep 26 19:16:01 Oh, you can just flash the kernel at this point. Sep 26 19:16:15 maybe i have to erase the image Sep 26 19:29:45 anyone using bitbake's devshell to interactively build packages? Sep 26 19:30:53 I tried it once but did not understand how it works :( Sep 26 19:31:13 I use bitbake -i Sep 26 19:31:39 Im getting errors list environment variables not set etc. Sep 26 19:31:52 what is bitbake -i? Sep 26 19:32:49 oh my god, the scary sound Sep 26 19:33:01 interactive bitbake. it is not a devshell but let me rebuild packages much quicker as it does not have to reparse the packages every time Sep 26 19:33:09 mwester: erasing before flashing did the trick Sep 26 19:38:51 Ghiottone: a quick question: I saw your experiments with bootchart. Very cool. Have you found out why the IO is zero ? is it that mtd is not present in /proc/diskstats ? Sep 26 19:41:08 thseiler, thanks. It is present. I don't know why it is zero. Our best guess is that NAND is very fast Sep 26 19:42:20 tuukkah said that in an experiment with boot from SD IO stats were visible Sep 26 19:42:42 actually I'm trying to optimize bootchart to have more accurate results Sep 26 19:43:19 cool. I think it might be that the mtd does not update the iostats in the kernel. Sep 26 19:44:01 It was interesting to see that the CPU is always at 100% and the JFFS is compressed, to it would be interesting to see how much cpu is spent in the decompression... Sep 26 19:46:59 thseiler, ehm I double checked the logs and actually it seems that mtdbblock stats are zero at the end of the boot phase Sep 26 19:47:14 thseiler, I must have read the wrong line the first time I saw them Sep 26 19:48:15 thseiler, cpu at 100% could be also for bootchartd getting stats. that's why I'm trying to optimize it Sep 26 19:48:58 Ghiottone: Interesting... So the mtdblock driver does not update iostats then. Sep 26 19:49:32 Ghiottone: yeah, i see, this is clearly also a possibility for 100% CPU. Sep 26 19:52:35 thseiler, I'm about to put in my repo the optimized version, just have to fix a config file. if you want you can try experimenting too Sep 26 19:54:51 Ghiottone: I would love to do so ! Sep 26 19:55:33 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3048 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (12 files): Fix includes and follow the api changes Sep 26 19:57:41 <_diego__> have anybody tried to debug something on neo? Sep 26 20:00:55 _diego_, you have to install the debug packages Sep 26 20:02:10 <_diego__> i have installed matchbox-panel-2-dbg and also some library with -dbg, but seems it doesn't matter Sep 26 20:04:02 <_diego__> ie: Reading symbols from /lib/libgcc_s.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Sep 26 20:05:01 <_diego__> Shoragan: any ideas? Sep 26 20:06:32 hmm, there have been some problems with gdb on the neo, i'm not sure if they have be solved Sep 26 20:28:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Main_Page]] Sep 26 20:51:17 * psymin wonders if 6GB is the biggest micro-SD out there. Sep 26 20:51:31 psymin, ATM Sep 26 20:51:51 nifty Sep 26 20:52:20 oh they got those out at least? Sep 26 20:52:25 how much do they go for Sep 26 20:52:32 still, I'll likely hold on until 8 Sep 26 20:52:35 $99 according to wikipedia Sep 26 20:53:01 (what with the neo still needing a lotta love and all, too) Sep 26 20:54:25 I wonder if 400mhz is fast enough to watch a DVD .. Sep 26 20:59:48 psymin: Nop Sep 26 21:00:25 psymin, a 450mhz i386 can Sep 26 21:00:29 not sure about arm Sep 26 21:01:00 pretty damn sure it won't Sep 26 21:01:09 recode it to mpeg-4, though, and play with the gpu... Sep 26 21:01:13 (given driver support) Sep 26 21:01:14 Oh well :) Sep 26 21:01:18 * psymin ponders. Sep 26 21:01:31 * cb22 wonders how driver support will be implimented Sep 26 21:03:01 * mjr on the other hand wonders if it's basically "mpeg-4-in-video-out" or just some assist functions that are made available Sep 26 21:06:32 thseiler|away, I have put the package online in my repository. its name is litebootchart Sep 26 21:07:55 it seems that the uImage produced by 2.6.23-rc8 is not being compressed Sep 26 21:08:10 does anyone have an idea why this has changed? Sep 26 21:15:54 Ghiottone: thank you! Sep 26 21:16:33 thseiler, thank you for testing it. please let me know if it works and the resultsyou get! Sep 26 21:19:04 Ghiottone: as soon as my neo is charged enough to boot again :-P Sep 26 21:19:25 great! Sep 26 21:19:58 to launch it I give this command to the neo via cutecom: Sep 26 21:20:01 setenv bootargs_base rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 console=tty0 loglevel=8 init=/sbin/bootchartd Sep 26 21:20:05 boot Sep 26 21:22:03 Ghiottone: thanks, I always wondered how to change the kernel cmd line in uboot... Sep 26 21:25:40 sweet. there is an openmoko channel Sep 26 21:26:19 welcome atoponce Sep 26 21:27:08 :) Sep 26 21:29:17 <|R> mjr : http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/22/toshiba-announces-32gb-16gb-sdhc-cards/ Sep 26 21:29:30 <|R> here you go, 8GB micro SDHC :) Sep 26 21:35:54 does anybody have an idea how to get past the glib 2.14.0 compile error (automake craps out)? Sep 26 21:36:33 Works For Me(tm) Sep 26 21:36:41 Do you have a pastebin of the error? Sep 26 21:37:04 i'll make one Sep 26 21:38:31 mwester: http://nbd.name/glib2_crap.txt Sep 26 21:40:55 nbd: it looks like you have installed automake version 1.4, but the glib wants automake 1.7 Sep 26 21:40:58 OpenMoko builds glib-2.0 2.12.12 Sep 26 21:41:08 thseiler: earlier i tried 1.9 Sep 26 21:41:15 i'll try 1.7 now Sep 26 21:41:35 mwester: directfb-something required glib 2.14 Sep 26 21:41:50 nbd: the question is why does your setup want to build 2.14 ? Sep 26 21:42:09 i tried it manually, because some package in the default selection needs it Sep 26 21:42:21 it built 2.12 already, that worked Sep 26 21:42:33 but because of the package that needs 2.14, i tried to get 2.14 compiled Sep 26 21:42:59 are you trying to use pango-directfb then? Sep 26 21:43:20 Or are you just trying to get a standard, normal build of OM to work? Sep 26 21:43:46 i'm just trying to get a normal build to work Sep 26 21:44:02 it automatically tried to pango-directfb Sep 26 21:44:03 Ah, ok. I have bad news for you then. (and some good news, too) Sep 26 21:44:14 The good news is that the problem is fixed. Sep 26 21:44:38 The bad news is that you need to blow away your tmp directory and everything beneath it, and start a build from scratch. Sep 26 21:44:46 again? Sep 26 21:44:49 i just did that yesterday Sep 26 21:44:50 *sigh* Sep 26 21:44:59 The problem just appeared yesterday. Sep 26 21:45:11 You (and I) are the lucky ones who tripped on it. Sep 26 21:45:25 ok Sep 26 21:45:37 why is there no way to do this without nuking everything? Sep 26 21:45:45 this thing takes *ages* to build Sep 26 21:45:59 Your staging area has bad stuff in it already. Sep 26 21:46:10 yeah, but can't i nuke the specific parts manually? Sep 26 21:47:01 And there's no real way to know which packages were affected -- autoconf may have configured several packages differently because it saw bits of directfb support in the staging area. Sep 26 21:47:15 ndb, did you set BB_NUMBER_THREADS? Sep 26 21:47:21 I think someone, somewhere could sort it out, but I don't know who. Sep 26 21:47:28 Shoragan: i used the defaults for everything Sep 26 21:47:42 i don't think that is default yet Sep 26 21:47:49 so i did not set it Sep 26 21:47:50 ;) Sep 26 21:47:57 it helps a lot Sep 26 21:48:00 Do you have a dual-core cpu? Sep 26 21:48:03 nope Sep 26 21:48:27 then use BB_NUMBER_THREADS = 2 in conf/local.conf Sep 26 21:49:02 i think i'll keep it to 1, because i want to get other work done on this server Sep 26 21:49:12 stuff that does not take as long as openembedded stuff ;) Sep 26 21:49:53 hehe! My build box is a mythtv capture machine as well, it doesn't capture video too well when the # of threads is set too high. Sep 26 21:50:15 If I have a recording scheduled, I need to leave one of the cores free to do other work. Sep 26 21:50:22 ndb, mickey is working on a 'standalone' sdk, which can be used to build packages without oe/bitbake Sep 26 22:16:01 good time of day everyone Sep 26 22:16:19 ~ugt Sep 26 22:16:20 well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Sep 26 22:16:29 Good Morning Sep 26 22:16:33 i'm still having this one pesky question: is there a word on shipments yet? :) Sep 26 22:17:03 The word is: no Sep 26 22:17:12 damn :( Sep 26 22:17:12 not today Sep 26 22:17:14 No information Sep 26 22:17:27 rebuilding the whole tree now. i guess that means no playing with openmoko today Sep 26 22:18:02 nbd: do you just need a recent image, or do you need the build tree? Sep 26 22:18:18 i want to have the build tree as well Sep 26 22:18:49 so that i have a proper reference when i'm doing my driver work in a different build system ;) Sep 26 22:19:07 Ok. I put a patched snapshot up for those who want to play with something better than the older images. (http://moko.mwester.net/) Sep 26 22:19:21 thanks. i might give that a try later Sep 26 22:27:48 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Wikipedia_Mirror]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List]] [[Mokopedia]] Sep 26 22:28:54 Hello, everyone Sep 26 22:30:09 Is there any progress at making qtopia work alongside rest of openmoko, nicely? I found out I can just copy /opt from their qtopia images, and /media/card/qtopia/etc/init.d/qpe start & killall xinit gets me to qtopia, but there's no easy way back, and it would be really better to run both of them at the same time... Sep 26 22:30:56 ...plus, I found out there's new "media player" in new images, any hints how to use it? It demands I create playlist... Sep 26 22:39:00 pavelm: ummm.. then create playlist? :) Sep 26 22:40:50 berkus: :-) I did not figure out how to do that :-) Sep 26 22:44:05 Plus, I noticed that vibrations do not seem to work recently. Did my vibration motor break, or is there something wrong in the software? Sep 26 22:44:59 pavelm: erm, no idea on the playlist thing. it probably should show a dialog to do it, no? Sep 26 22:47:09 berkus: Hmm, it says "enter name of playlist to create", but it dies if I try it... Sep 26 22:47:39 it's a dead application then Sep 26 22:48:33 ...it seems to need ~root/playlists Sep 26 22:49:11 maybe just do chmod magic for testing? Sep 26 22:50:58 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3049 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (explicitly-link-notes-section.patch series): Sep 26 22:50:58 openmoko: Fix linking problem by explicitly allocating a .notes section in vmlinux. This Sep 26 22:50:58 openmoko: should probably go upstream. Sep 26 22:59:35 pavelm, mkdir /root/playlists Sep 26 23:14:40 So when can I buy a phone with openmoko that works in the USA? Sep 26 23:18:41 GSM works in the USA Sep 26 23:18:47 So today. Sep 26 23:18:57 Coverage is variable in a few locations. Sep 26 23:20:05 some providers are CDMA only, so you can't use them of course. Sep 26 23:20:24 however, the currently available phone is _not_ suitable for users Sep 26 23:22:04 sid: I've used mine in the USA Sep 26 23:23:05 a propose, can you try to drop me a missed call? Sep 26 23:23:14 to the openmoko? Sep 26 23:23:30 +393291680456 Sep 26 23:23:31 anyone Sep 26 23:25:03 'customer not available - please try again later' Sep 26 23:26:19 +39? italy? Sep 26 23:26:34 I think it sounded italian - the first message Sep 26 23:26:57 and the last word definately may have been 'thank you' in italian. Sep 26 23:28:32 yep Sep 26 23:28:36 but i'm in usa Sep 26 23:28:52 poor guy Sep 26 23:28:58 Aria: Your what? Sep 26 23:29:03 ljp: yep Sep 26 23:29:05 SpeedEvil: Where can I buy the phone? Sep 26 23:29:06 My neo1973 Sep 26 23:29:10 ljp: btw i'm going back in 10 days Sep 26 23:29:13 hmm, looks like SpeedEvil and ScaredyCat are leading the polls :) Sep 26 23:29:14 You can buy a completed Neo1973? Sep 26 23:29:27 eating pasta, playing mandolino, and singing "O, sole mio" Sep 26 23:29:35 If you want to buy one, and can't figure it out from the topic, you probably shouldn't. Sep 26 23:30:04 Calls only started working reliably (apparenltly) with versions of the software in the last week. Sep 26 23:30:22 (that may not be available on the build, I'm unsure) Sep 26 23:31:07 say, has anyone tracked down the burning neo without battery smell? Sep 26 23:31:18 Umm... Sep 26 23:31:19 2A? Sep 26 23:31:20 ? Sep 26 23:31:33 i heard that if you plug one in Sep 26 23:31:38 and it has no battery inside Sep 26 23:31:45 you get a rather nasty burning smell Sep 26 23:31:50 That's bad. Sep 26 23:31:56 yep Sep 26 23:32:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Things_not_to_do_with_your_Neo Sep 26 23:36:19 Will the hardware design change at all? Sep 26 23:36:22 or is that finalized? Sep 26 23:36:33 If I buy this, will there be some great addition to it in a month? Sep 26 23:37:26 Wifi when the GTA02 is released. Sep 26 23:37:30 And accelerometers. Sep 26 23:37:32 maybe december Sep 26 23:37:37 and 3d accel Sep 26 23:38:04 sid currently gta02 is developed which will have quite some updates (besides the case) Sep 26 23:38:44 roh, will it be out by christmas? Sep 26 23:38:47 hopefully? Sep 26 23:39:00 * Aria crosses her fingers Sep 26 23:39:14 I'm really hoping to get the GTA01 working happily and then pass it off to my father, and then go to the Wifi model myself. Sep 26 23:39:23 cb22 i hope so, but i cannot and will not promise it (sadly) Sep 26 23:39:26 i don't believe in Santa Claus since i was 6 Sep 26 23:39:37 Aria, haha, give the old one to your dad Sep 26 23:39:58 cb22: Hey, he passes his old toys to me... Sep 26 23:40:02 if i had to give my dad one, he would stare at me blankly and say 'whats this?' before throwing it on the ground Sep 26 23:40:05 bedboi he exists, and sometimes brings you hardware you paid by yourself *ducks* Sep 26 23:40:21 roh: what a useless guy Sep 26 23:40:22 roh, m'kay. i suppose thats your misquote protection :) Sep 26 23:40:30 roh: i'll use UPS then Sep 26 23:40:32 s/santa clause/UPS/ Sep 26 23:40:34 ahaha Sep 26 23:40:35 bah Sep 26 23:40:38 beat me to it Sep 26 23:41:04 roh: i'll use UPS then Sep 26 23:41:04 s/santa clause/UPS/ Sep 26 23:41:05 i won Sep 26 23:41:18 btw it's impossible to know, because of lag Sep 26 23:41:30 * cb22 has 0.4 secs of lag Sep 26 23:41:37 cb22 well.. i'm sitting in the best bar in town, and are quite drunk, so don't quote me at all ;) Sep 26 23:41:40 yep you are increasing it. Sep 26 23:41:50 roh: good plan Sep 26 23:41:57 i should do something like that Sep 26 23:42:03 i'm working too much Sep 26 23:42:14 roh, .... Sep 26 23:42:17 bedboi well, you'll need a bar with wifi then Sep 26 23:42:19 and you are on irc? Sep 26 23:42:28 roh: here all bars have wifi Sep 26 23:42:54 roh: watch out, don't flood you laptop with beer Sep 26 23:42:58 it's not good at all Sep 26 23:43:00 i just needed to rip a dvd with a video of robodock, so i switched the machine on Sep 26 23:43:12 uh huh... Sep 26 23:43:25 Hi, my name is roh, and i'm an IRC addict.... HI roh Sep 26 23:43:30 :p Sep 26 23:44:58 *sigh* Sep 26 23:45:43 .oO(i'm not at fault, my ubuntu connected to the wireless automagically because i showed it that this network was ok) Sep 26 23:46:19 roh, dont worry, denial is the first stage of acceptance Sep 26 23:46:55 robodock? Sep 26 23:47:15 roh: ubuntu is stupid Sep 26 23:47:18 STUPID Sep 26 23:47:20 i hate ubuntu Sep 26 23:47:27 i was setting a mesh network Sep 26 23:47:39 that fucking auto`magical` auto connect shit Sep 26 23:47:52 it was making me thing that i had problem with the drivers Sep 26 23:47:56 bedboi http://laughingsquid.com/robodock-2007-an-art-technology-festival-in-amsterdam/ Sep 26 23:47:59 but it was the fucking automagic shit Sep 26 23:48:05 i hate ubuntu Sep 26 23:48:31 it always happens when you add artificial stupidity on top of the hardware Sep 26 23:48:54 roh: cool. Freaks' stuff Sep 26 23:48:59 bedboi ubuntu is for the lazy if you know your way in debian and understand how it works Sep 26 23:49:31 no no Sep 26 23:49:35 i stick with debian Sep 26 23:50:01 it's quite low level, but you have still the lazyness of doing apt-get Sep 26 23:51:58 need to go.. bbl Sep 26 23:52:01 cheers Sep 26 23:52:36 a GPL question... If (hypothetically) Apache were under the GPL, and i modified it and used it to host a web site Sep 26 23:52:42 would i have to release the changes? Sep 26 23:59:02 No Sep 26 23:59:20 you only need to release source code to those you distribute the binary to Sep 27 00:01:02 if you don't release it's ok to do anything you want Sep 27 00:01:20 Like google Sep 27 00:01:27 they apparently have lots of forked stuff. Sep 27 00:01:35 but don't release it as they don't need to Sep 27 00:01:40 (AIUI) Sep 27 00:03:30 thanks Sep 27 00:08:51 hi @all Sep 27 00:09:12 is that possible to install openmoko on samsung? Sep 27 00:09:13 FreshPrince_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 27 00:09:49 FreshPrince_: OpenMoko runs on a Samsung SoC, so this is a yes. Sep 27 00:10:12 FreshPrince_: at sometime in the future, yes. Sep 27 00:10:13 abraxa_ wel i have here a Sep 27 00:10:17 Or if you write drivers. Sep 27 00:10:18 samsung SGH-D500 Sep 27 00:10:21 realy old :) Sep 27 00:10:34 At the moment, there is no support at all for any other platforms other than what users do Sep 27 00:10:45 hmm ok Sep 27 00:10:49 It needs 64M RAM and 64M ROM at least Sep 27 00:10:50 ~ Sep 27 00:10:58 there is barely support at the moment for the main hardware Sep 27 00:11:06 I hope my answer made it clear that your question was way too vague to answer it properly Sep 27 00:11:28 well thx Sep 27 00:12:02 Basically, come back maybe (I guess) July or so if you want some support officially of other devices. Sep 27 00:12:05 (at a guess) Sep 27 00:12:24 As to when other devices might sort-of-work - it depends Sep 27 00:12:28 july next year'? ;) Sep 27 00:12:39 ok Sep 27 00:12:42 at the moment, if you can get it to boot linux, you can try installing it yourself. Sep 27 00:12:50 but this is very much a developer only thing Sep 27 00:12:58 ok Sep 27 00:13:17 The core team at the moment is 20 or so people. Sep 27 00:13:28 And they are concentrating on releasing hardware at teh moment. Sep 27 00:13:32 Good morning (uct) I have bitbake/quilt/mokomakefile questions. Any takers? Sep 27 00:13:40 And getting the base software non-crap. Sep 27 00:13:53 allright Sep 27 00:14:00 thx for the information SpeedEvil Sep 27 00:14:01 Sorry :/ Sep 27 00:14:14 sagacis: *waves* - I wanna try :) Sep 27 00:16:22 abraxa_, thanks. I followed the instructions on the "Developing with MokoMakefile" on the wiki. I ended up with a patch in a strange place, and the paths in the patch file seem wrong. When I build-package-neod, nothing is built. I assume I did something wrong... Sep 27 00:17:57 After quilt new..add steps (in the $OMDIR/openmoko directory), I modified source code in openmoko/trunk/src/../neod/src directory... Sep 27 00:18:29 When I ran "quilt refresh", the patch was created in the $OMDIR/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ directory and the series file updated. Sep 27 00:18:42 How is the build supposed to know about the patch? Sep 27 00:21:17 Hmm Sep 27 00:21:29 Honestly I don't know, I'm afraid Sep 27 00:22:18 I don't know why the OpenMoko SVN repo gets pulled anyway since bitbake pulls the individual packages from SVN anyway Sep 27 00:24:51 SpeedEvil: I'm currently redesigning the UI for the media player - mind telling me your thoughts? http://dar-clan.de/mediaplayer_compact.jpg / http://dar-clan.de/mediaplayer_expanded.jpg Sep 27 00:25:03 (anyone else is welcome, too, of course) Sep 27 00:25:17 volume buttons way too small Sep 27 00:25:37 slider ought to be thicker Sep 27 00:25:43 yo have to remember the massive dpi ~_~ Sep 27 00:26:17 I guess for such mock-ups 240x320 would make more sense than using 480x640 to get an idea of how it will look... Sep 27 00:26:23 anrp: The buttons will be put in an eventbox so the actual touching area is bigger than the icons - and the slider... I'll actually make it smaller since it'll be non-draggable Sep 27 00:26:25 Is it possible to grab motion on ths screen instead of having to have sliders? Sep 27 00:27:06 you mean these things we call "drags"? Sep 27 00:27:10 slide up and down for valume, left and right for rw and ff? Sep 27 00:27:10 of course Sep 27 00:27:14 I think it has to support full-screen drags. Sep 27 00:27:16 tRubl: Doable, yes... good idea Sep 27 00:27:25 I do not want to look at teh screen when doing stuff Sep 27 00:27:50 With a full screen moivie, for example, in landscape mode, there's no real room for controls :) Sep 27 00:27:57 still looks nice though Sep 27 00:27:59 good work :) Sep 27 00:28:18 stroke-right, next track, stroke-up less volume Sep 27 00:28:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Alessandro]] [[Bootcharts]] [[File_transfer]] Sep 27 00:28:28 stroke up fast, much less volume, ... Sep 27 00:29:17 SpeedEvil: why up to turn volume down? Sep 27 00:29:40 SpeedEvil, tRubl: I like the idea and will use it - thanks for the input :) Sep 27 00:31:35 I have a quesiotn concerning the debug board, the wiki says check the usb id...should it respond to a dfu-tul --list? Sep 27 00:31:54 dfu-util --list even'' Sep 27 00:32:06 SpeedEvil: Any idea how I can bring the screen to doublesize mode under X - of if that's even possible already? Sep 27 00:32:36 abraxa_: sorry - no idea Sep 27 00:32:42 okay thanks =3 Sep 27 00:32:48 Writchie: meh Sep 27 00:32:55 abraxa_: What's the handle on the left side? Sep 27 00:32:58 Writchie: it was an example, poorly thought out Sep 27 00:33:29 sagacis: Clicking on that handle expands the play controls and reveals additional buttons (shuffle/repeat/settings/etc) Sep 27 00:33:58 Cool. What's the difference between the two finger buttons (the tab and the button that is) Sep 27 00:33:59 ? Sep 27 00:34:17 One needed feature is when display is off we must reject the first touch instead of acting on it. Sep 27 00:34:25 qtopia bad in this regard Sep 27 00:34:56 Writchie: I agree. I keep launching apps when trying to wake the screen. Sep 27 00:35:11 worse when you're on a call Sep 27 00:35:28 +1 for that idea. Sep 27 00:35:57 sagacis: The button is for "player settings" but doesn't have its own icon yet : Sep 27 00:35:57 you dont want the touchscreen to resume or turn on the screen. what happens when its in your pocket? Sep 27 00:35:58 :) Sep 27 00:35:58 On the openmoko dialer, the answer button is too small, methinks. When I get a call, the answer touch area should be nearly the whole screen. Sep 27 00:36:30 abraxa_: Ah. Makes sense. I haven't been able to get the player to load a playlist yet, but I haven't worked on it much. Sep 27 00:36:40 I'm mostly concerned with getting the phone parts working. Sep 27 00:37:24 sagacis: The latest buildhost image has an old SVN revision where the player expects /root/playlists to expect - newer revisions create it on their own Sep 27 00:38:08 I'll update and try again. I haven't put much music on the device yet. Saving my pennies for a 6gb microsd card. Sep 27 00:38:26 I opted for a 2GB one. I was desperate to try :) Sep 27 00:39:03 It's either a 6gb card or an air conditioner for my car..... It's getting cooler every day! Sep 27 00:39:10 lol Sep 27 00:40:00 abraxa_: How do you develop against the codebase? Do you bitbake to build? Sep 27 00:40:28 sagacis: Yup - "bitbake foo -c compile" Sep 27 00:40:37 sagacis: trade your car for a bike and get an 8G ;-) Sep 27 00:41:00 u_l-lap: I would, but I work 50 miles away from home and the 8gb's aren't out yet. Sep 27 00:41:28 sagacis: that's only a four hour one way commute ;-) Sep 27 00:41:43 Surely I could get a couple 8gb's for my Porsche Sep 27 00:42:57 abraxa_: What about debugging? Sep 27 00:43:05 sagacis: gdb :) Sep 27 00:43:30 abraxa_: Thought so. Nothing easy... Sep 27 00:44:27 Depends on how you see it - it suits my usual work style so I'm happy with it Sep 27 00:45:12 I"m more used to integrated processes, but I can work with it. It hearkens back to days of yore. Sep 27 00:46:27 sagacis, maybe 2! Sep 27 00:47:15 sagacis: That's what I think about OE/SVN sometimes, too... sure do wonder what happened to the times when people were testing commits locally before submitting them Sep 27 00:47:40 ouch. That's what I was saying just this morning. Sep 27 00:47:53 "open source" means test on everybody else's device first? Sep 27 00:48:01 * jaebird wonders if testing is a four letter word here? Sep 27 00:51:16 not even a sorry I broke 100 people's build's the've been running for last 8 hours Sep 27 00:52:08 "womm" Sep 27 00:52:23 abraxa_: Ok, I know something's wrong. I can make big errors in the code, but they aren't pulled in when I build. I guess it's back to the bitbake manual. Sep 27 00:52:25 do you have to rebuild all of the software every time or something? Sep 27 00:52:50 u_l-lap: Nah. It doesn't really take too long if you keep your cache current. Sep 27 00:53:20 u_l-lap: Nope but imagine letting it run overnight to work with the result the next day, just to find out it stopped in the middle because of some untested commit Sep 27 00:53:29 lame Sep 27 00:53:48 sagacis: I feel with you, heh Sep 27 00:54:57 how can someone commit a *build* error! Sep 27 00:55:11 where I come from people are flogged for doing that Sep 27 00:55:14 bitbake doesn't make it easy Sep 27 00:55:38 I'm for SURE not going to commit a build error. I can't get my code to even get INTO the build. Sep 27 00:55:43 lol Sep 27 00:55:54 sagacis: lol Sep 27 00:56:45 bitbake looks lame Sep 27 00:57:44 now that I have more bandwidth than a 40k/s gprs modem I suppose I should install the OE build env Sep 27 00:57:57 u_l-lap: don't worry all of the bitbake police are on vacation :) Sep 27 00:58:03 open season! Sep 27 00:58:35 wow it doesn't support fetching darcs repos Sep 27 00:58:42 when I release stuff I'll be yelled at Sep 27 00:59:59 crap. Still can't figure out how to build my code. I'm gonna go watch Bionic Woman instead. I think I can work the tv remote. Sep 27 01:00:45 bitbake does have nice features but it's the lack of documentation/tutorials and the *need* for developers to dive into the depths of OE that make it so frustrating Sep 27 01:01:07 I think I've just been spoiled by asdf Sep 27 01:01:57 I guess at least bitbake isn't autotools Sep 27 01:09:47 I need a myth box so I can skip commercials. Sep 27 01:11:11 who doesn't? Sep 27 01:12:41 sagacis: read books Sep 27 01:32:40 u_l-lap: Nah, I keep a laptop handy and build over remote Sep 27 01:33:38 sagacis: even better! read gutenberg books ;-) Sep 27 01:35:15 wow lots of people on openmoko channel :) Sep 27 01:38:47 all idle. :) Sep 27 01:46:39 juri_: That's an unverified claim ;) Sep 27 01:48:22 well... counting only one person has talked since he said that... Sep 27 01:48:44 most are busy trying to fix their builds ;) Sep 27 01:48:45 moo Sep 27 01:49:39 moo? Sep 27 01:49:48 actually fewer in here than normal Sep 27 01:51:59 mwester: the CowBot goes moo Sep 27 02:03:12 I did have a question about the OpenMoko... anybody know how long it's gonna be before we get a USA version? Sep 27 02:03:29 cause if it's more than 2 years... that iphone looks pretty good right now =-P Sep 27 02:04:02 binaryspike: What do you regard a "USA version"? Sep 27 02:04:05 binary: i have one, and am in the usa. what do you mea, usa version? Sep 27 02:04:12 CDMA? Sep 27 02:04:13 Something I can make calls on Sep 27 02:04:18 Like to friends and such Sep 27 02:04:28 i've made calls with mine. Sep 27 02:04:40 radio or wifi? Sep 27 02:04:41 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Sep 27 02:04:49 GSM. real phone calls. Sep 27 02:05:05 how did you do that? Sep 27 02:05:18 i installed the software, and used it. :) Sep 27 02:05:22 binaryspike: In about half a year the phone will be usable for day-to-day tasks, currently it is not stable enough for that Sep 27 02:05:42 Juri, does it cost? Sep 27 02:05:48 I mean, don't you need a provider for that? Sep 27 02:06:06 i borrowed a friend's sim chip, plugged it in, associated, and started dialing. Sep 27 02:06:16 I see Sep 27 02:06:27 it dosent sound quite right.. but it works. Sep 27 02:06:50 so basically if I wanted to use it, I would go down to a cell phone provider and get a SIM chip? Sep 27 02:06:57 right. Sep 27 02:06:59 * mwester picks up his neo, and looks at it carefully to see if it's one of dem "furen" phones... Sep 27 02:07:03 :p ;) Sep 27 02:07:16 Thanks Juri Sep 27 02:07:20 you answered just about all my questions :) Sep 27 02:07:38 its still at the "rigged demo" stage. :P Sep 27 02:07:48 binaryspike: US providers are AT&T and T-Mobile Sep 27 02:07:52 i personally havent bought service. Sep 27 02:08:15 because it'd crash, and be buggy, and lose my icons and such.. but the "rigged demo" does function. :) Sep 27 02:08:15 * mwester uses a pay-as-you-go while developing... Sep 27 02:08:27 mwester: where did you get it? Sep 27 02:08:28 juri_: I have a better sound setup. Sounds good. Just crashes now and then Sep 27 02:08:54 T-Mobile stores can provide the SIM - they'll try to sell you a phone with it. Sep 27 02:09:01 So I just went to ebay Sep 27 02:09:11 juri_, There is a company down here that provides cell phone and internet through AT&T Sep 27 02:09:12 mwester: I have an update on your images... They didn't seem to work for me. Never got GSM to turn on at boot today. Sep 27 02:09:24 binary: cingular is atnt. :P Sep 27 02:09:30 sagacis: Thanks. Odd. Sep 27 02:09:58 juri_, they aren't cingular =-P Sep 27 02:10:00 I might try to reflash to make sure it's all good. I still haven't updated my u-boot (no debug board), but I did clean erase before flashing. Sep 27 02:10:34 Anyway gotta go, thanks for all the information. Sep 27 02:11:18 sagacis: The only known problem is that the battery applet causes the panel to crash at startup. Sep 27 02:11:19 mwester: Does your rootfs image have the ui rollback? I got a LOT of segmentation faults when booting or doing anything else. Sep 27 02:11:35 sagacis: did you flash *both* rootfs and kernel? Sep 27 02:11:36 mwester: I think the panel was working mostly. Sep 27 02:12:14 mwester: Yes, but it was late. I reflashed the kernel earlier today, but I'm going to reflash the rootfs. Sep 27 02:12:35 I usually modify it right after flashing to put in stuff I like (scripts, sound states, etc) Sep 27 02:12:44 After all, that's the point. Sep 27 02:13:08 Ok. I patched the kernel, so I felt obligated to bump the rev number on the kernel. But that results in the modules on the rootfs also having to match the kernel, so you need to flash a matched pair. Sep 27 02:13:43 I'm having second thoughts about that, it's a pain, and strictly speaking one doesn't need the kernel patches if you don't mess with gsmd. Sep 27 02:13:55 Right. I'll match them. I first tried to use the patched kernel I built using your patches and instructions. Sep 27 02:14:55 Ah. The binary will match, but the module versioning doesn't know that -- it will look at the "r2" of the standard kernel build, and it won't match the "r2.1" that they were built with. Sep 27 02:15:46 The kernel I build was r2.1 also to match your rootfs. Everything else worked, just no gsmd. Sep 27 02:16:50 I was able to launch QTopia on that build tho. That was pretty neat. I need to figure out how to launch the qtopia gsm stack. Sep 27 02:17:28 segacis: i think qtopia just goes direct to the modem Sep 27 02:17:52 if you launch it from the script it should work Sep 27 02:17:53 hm... It said "Searching for provider..." all day Sep 27 02:18:05 The init.d script? Sep 27 02:18:37 i think so - let me look Sep 27 02:19:10 init.d/qpe Sep 27 02:20:00 Yup. I copied that into my openmoko image (mwester's really) and symlinked /opt from the sd card. It launched, but I had gsm problems and couldn't register at that point. Sep 27 02:20:27 sagacis: you must make sure to shutdown gsmd first - this can be a problem with some kernels Sep 27 02:20:45 I'll try again after the flash finishes Sep 27 02:21:42 we probably need a little framebuffer based session manager Sep 27 02:22:28 Writchie: not a bad idea. Sep 27 02:22:45 could laund qtopia, openmoko, or sff Sep 27 02:23:03 I could use the uboot for that, no? Sep 27 02:23:25 you could but this takes a long time Sep 27 02:23:44 I'd normally boot to om, but I also use this as my primary phone during the day, so I want to be able to receive calls reliably. Sep 27 02:24:00 Although if the gsm fix works.... Sep 27 02:24:16 I kind of like the qtopia keyboard and autocomplete. Sep 27 02:24:35 not thumb dialable Sep 27 02:24:51 Not the dialer, the alpha keyboard Sep 27 02:24:52 really need a 10 key input method Sep 27 02:25:05 For one handed operation? Sep 27 02:25:09 alpha needs two hands to be usable Sep 27 02:25:13 yes. Sep 27 02:25:18 i always need to text with one hand Sep 27 02:25:26 Driving and texting? Sep 27 02:25:32 Or, what ARE you doing with your other hand? Sep 27 02:25:43 it's occupied Sep 27 02:26:23 for half the world a phone is a one handed device Sep 27 02:27:48 sagacis: its faster to type a message on a wii than the qtopia keyboard Sep 27 02:28:59 I don't know about that. You can fat-finger it pretty well. Hopefully it guesses the word list you want. Sep 27 02:29:31 The OM keyboard is too tiny to easily use without a stylus, and I'm too lazy to dig it out of my pocket half the time. Sep 27 02:29:49 OK, booting mwester's yesterday images now. Sep 27 02:34:06 mwester: Question mark in the gsm panel applet, "Waiting for Network Registration" in the dialer... Sep 27 02:34:17 mwester: nothing odd in the gsm.log Sep 27 02:34:35 That's what's supposed to happen. Sep 27 02:34:48 gsmd is running Sep 27 02:35:01 Once it registers with the network, you'll get the signal strenght display. Sep 27 02:35:10 OK. How long does it take to register? Sep 27 02:35:49 Mine does it in a minute or less. Sep 27 02:36:02 Mine has always registered in a few seconds. Sep 27 02:36:18 Still not registered after 5 minutes. Sep 27 02:36:18 You can try to help it along by selecting the items off the menu from the little antenna icon... Sep 27 02:36:25 I did those. Sep 27 02:36:30 Ah, ok. Sep 27 02:36:34 libgsmd-tool no help either Sep 27 02:36:57 We have a cell repeater in our building at work. It didn't register all day. Sep 27 02:37:25 From the gsm.log: Wed Sep 26 21:35:17 2007 <1> usock.c:1542:gsmd_usock_user_cb() EOF, this client has just vanished Sep 27 02:37:28 sagacis: pastebin the gsm log? Sep 27 02:37:33 sure Sep 27 02:38:47 http://cl1p.net/gsm.log Sep 27 02:40:10 gsmd is gone now Sep 27 02:40:57 /etc/init.d/gsmd start resulted in four segmentation faults Sep 27 02:41:39 sagacis: looks like the modem didn't answer at all :( Sep 27 02:41:52 That's unhappy. :( Sep 27 02:42:02 I'll try with cu Sep 27 02:42:15 sagacis: the applet might have tried to register, but without the modem there... do you have the recent changes to disable echo in /etc/init.d/gsmd? Sep 27 02:42:39 I"m running mwester's images, so if he had them.... Sep 27 02:43:01 sagacis: look for the stty -F "$GSM_DEV" -echo strategically placed in that script Sep 27 02:43:01 sagacis: when did you pull the images down, exactly? Sep 27 02:43:29 sagacis: if it's not there, the problem might be the same we were having before that change, and testing with that change would be a good idea Sep 27 02:44:03 Not sure, but the image time is 18:45-19:09 yesterday Sep 27 02:44:13 * cesarb would really like it if upstream adopted the debug patch I added to bug 766, which shows exactly WHAT has been sent to the modem, instead of what was queued Sep 27 02:44:45 cesarb: I'd gladly do it if I could figure out how to build with patches confidently Sep 27 02:44:52 openmoko: 03olv * r3050 10/developers/olv/ (. Is): Create personal directory Sep 27 02:45:29 sagacis: Can you generate the md5sum for the image, so I can figure out exactly which one you have? Sep 27 02:45:51 Sure. I checksummed against your md5's OK Sep 27 02:46:11 a707d6642e72fb46bf3a2e151098e486 OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070925-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Sep 27 02:46:27 3ae882b016e5e949101b0e4585a14710 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2.1-fic-gta01.bin Sep 27 02:46:27 sagacis: I use a local overlay (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay), which makes building with patches as easy as building normally (just copy the recipe, add +cesarb1 to its PR and add the patches to it, and recompile) Sep 27 02:46:55 Ok, that's current. It has the echo fix, as well as the libgsmd fix and the flow control fix in it. Sep 27 02:47:02 I was going to try that, but decided to avoid a tongue-lashing by koen Sep 27 02:47:15 Wierd. Sep 27 02:47:44 ttySAC0 is the modem, right? I'm getting "Line in use" Sep 27 02:48:09 That's really weird. Have you made any changes to the image since booting it the first time? Sep 27 02:48:15 openmoko: 03olv * r3051 10/developers/olv/ (5 files in 3 dirs): New directory tracking Xglamo development Sep 27 02:48:20 Nope. This is the first boot since flashing. Sep 27 02:48:51 what do you get from a ps -ef command? Sep 27 02:49:35 http://cl1p.net/psef/ Sep 27 02:50:59 Do you have the console disabled in uboot? Sep 27 02:51:22 Yes, come to think of it. ttySAC0 is disabled in uboot Sep 27 02:51:33 Should I put it back? Sep 27 02:52:08 You can try that - it's not necessary to do a saveenv command, just boot with the console enabled. Sep 27 02:52:31 Ok. It'll take a few minutes (love that slow boot...) Sep 27 02:53:02 Heya olv - nice to see another developer find his/her home in SVN :) Sep 27 02:57:54 sagacis: Disabling the console entirely duplicated the problem here. Sep 27 02:59:26 Never shutdown completely, either Sep 27 02:59:43 Yeah, I see that too. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 27 02:59:57 2007