**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 29 02:59:56 2007 Sep 29 03:03:34 sagacis: So you manually patch the code, then rebuild the package, and the patch is gone? Sep 29 03:06:57 i'm gona use the name neomote Sep 29 03:06:57 heh Sep 29 03:07:52 mwester: No, I manually patch the code, and rebuild gets new code from svn, ignoring my nice, pretty patches.. Sep 29 03:08:13 Yep, that's what it's supposed to do. Neat, huh? Sep 29 03:08:19 Neet. Sep 29 03:08:32 s/Neet/Neat/ Sep 29 03:08:32 Patch the code. Sep 29 03:08:32 sagacis meant: Neat. Sep 29 03:09:10 Patch the code? Sep 29 03:09:12 locate the file tmp/stamps//_do_compile_ Sep 29 03:09:19 delete the timestamp file Sep 29 03:09:31 then do your ordinary "bitbake " Sep 29 03:10:12 OK. I'll try that. That step's missing from the wiki. Sep 29 03:10:15 bitbake will think it already did the download, and patch steps, leave your modifications alone, and pick up the build, stage, and packaging steps. Sep 29 03:10:34 Oh, that's not a "sanctioned" way to use bitbake. Sep 29 03:10:37 * cesarb still prefers to copy the recipe to his local overlay and edit it Sep 29 03:10:46 Just the way it works for me. Sep 29 03:10:53 (which, btw, _is_ a "sanctioned" way to use bitbake afaik) Sep 29 03:10:56 I couldn't get the overlay working right, either, but it could be the gin... Sep 29 03:11:08 cesarb's approach works very well, esp. for large changes. Sep 29 03:11:19 cesarb: I don't think so. Koen exploded over the concept of the overlay, but I think the overlay's a great way to go Sep 29 03:11:34 But I usually work with a patch here and a tweak there, and often expect to commit my work, so working in place for me is best. Sep 29 03:11:55 sagacis: if you were using the "crash course" page, it's for 2007.1; for 2007.2 look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay Sep 29 03:11:59 Gin will give you a bad headache. Sep 29 03:13:41 Oh! Sep 29 03:13:48 That would probably help. Heh. Sep 29 03:14:16 sagacis: Speaking of which... I haven't seen Koen in here for ages. Did OpenMoko upset him too much? Sep 29 03:14:19 Gin shouldn't give too bad a headache, if it's good gin. Sep 29 03:14:35 Dunno. Maybe he's on vacation like the rest of the core devs Sep 29 03:14:58 Koen isn't a core dev, though. Oh well Sep 29 03:15:27 Oh, right. Sep 29 03:15:33 He's an OE dev, tho Sep 29 03:15:37 Yeah Sep 29 03:15:46 And quite an angry one at that, it seems :) Sep 29 03:16:09 what's he angry at? Sep 29 03:16:24 most things. He's likely very talented. Sep 29 03:16:43 NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 736 tasks of which 736 didn't need to be rerun and 0 failed. Sep 29 03:16:50 Why doesn't it build? Sep 29 03:17:13 it thinks it didn't need to Sep 29 03:17:53 grrr Sep 29 03:18:55 OK, so quilt is applying changes to the openmoko/trunk/src/... path. The code that is compiled is in build/tmp/work/... path. How should the patched code get from trunk to work? Sep 29 03:19:23 Perhaps I shouldn't be changing code in openmoko/... ? Sep 29 03:19:39 sagacis: That's my assumtion as OpenMoko no longer uses an OE overlay Sep 29 03:19:43 +p Sep 29 03:19:48 ah Sep 29 03:20:03 Where should I be changing? work? Sep 29 03:20:44 That's what I do. Change the source in work, delete the do_compile stamp and do a bitbake -f -c compile foo Sep 29 03:20:44 http://xkcd.com/322/ Sep 29 03:21:34 * juri_ gets out her emp cannon. Sep 29 03:21:40 sagacis: It certainly isn't a "sane" nor "accepted" way of doing this but it works for me and I don't have the time to deal with OE :) Sep 29 03:22:35 OK. I wish OE could just tell us what they want. There's nothing "open" about developing on OpenEmbedded. Sep 29 03:23:02 I hope I haven't lost all my changes. It would be the fourth time I've put them in. Sep 29 03:23:21 If I wasn't equally frustrated with VS2005 at work, I'd be really mad. Sep 29 03:23:48 VS2005... my condolences. Sep 29 03:24:46 It decided one day last week to rename one of our 257 projects in the solution, thereby breaking EVERYTHING. We've taken man-weeks to sort it out. In the end, one of the devs broke down and touched each and every project file to correct the references. Sep 29 03:25:00 trade you visual foxpro. ;) Sep 29 03:25:07 Ouch! You win. Sep 29 03:25:14 No foxpro for me!!!! Sep 29 03:25:23 What's so bad about foxpro? Sep 29 03:25:32 the programmers who use it. ;) Sep 29 03:25:41 lol Sep 29 03:25:50 Does that include you or not? Sep 29 03:25:59 no, i replaced him. :P Sep 29 03:26:09 hehe okay Sep 29 03:26:12 * SpeedEvil develops visual intercal. Sep 29 03:26:30 Just wondering cause you do hang out in a dev channel so I figured you'd be a programmer, too ;) Sep 29 03:26:53 My IDE design uses autostereograms. Sep 29 03:27:49 i program in C/C++/bash/tintin++/... well, just about everything. :P Sep 29 03:27:57 hm... "Dialer: error setting antenna power" (due to no SIM being inserted, as the log shows) Sep 29 03:28:08 It *is* getting more reliable, at last :D Sep 29 03:29:41 At least this time it has a *reason* to fail... Sep 29 03:30:44 i get the same error, even tho theres a sim in mine. Sep 29 03:31:08 even with a working sim, i can dial. Sep 29 03:31:13 SpeedEvil: ah, since you know way more about batteries and chargers and stuff, could you take a quick look at bug 891 (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=891 <- quick link) and check that I'm not spewing nonsense? Sep 29 03:32:14 Meh. Sep 29 03:32:19 * SpeedEvil clicks. Sep 29 03:32:53 * mwester doesn't program. He's just a janitor. Sep 29 03:33:33 cesarb: something like that. Sep 29 03:34:10 * mwester doesn't like visual studio either, though -- tools that think they know better then you are frustrating when you need to do something unusual. Sep 29 03:34:12 If below X volts - turn off immediately and set RTC alarm for several minutes in the future. Sep 29 03:34:53 Unfortunately, the right solution is moderately non-trivial. Sep 29 03:35:25 And involves putting enough smarts to query the USB bus. Sep 29 03:35:31 SpeedEvil: isn't it a Simple Matter Of Programming? Sep 29 03:35:33 Into uboot Sep 29 03:35:55 The right way is a simple matter of hardware. Sep 29 03:37:36 Yeah, software's free! Sep 29 03:38:48 SpeedEvil: well, but with what we have, we must put two extra behaviours into uboot's first page... one to check for "charger connected"&&"battery voltage critical" (is battery voltage reliable enough even with a charger connected?) and poll for enough voltage before enabling the RAM Sep 29 03:39:16 Time for another full build. Sep 29 03:39:17 SpeedEvil: and the other to check, when directed to by the kernel, for USB status... (this is will probably be harder) Sep 29 03:40:09 Yay, a missed call returns to the *dialer* screen instead of today's Sep 29 03:40:18 You don't even have to try to find new bugs Sep 29 03:48:32 target-rich environment Sep 29 03:49:13 I thought quilt is pwd agnostic. Not true, right? Sep 29 04:06:26 I give up. Maybe tomorrow I can compile a stupid patch. It's like I don't exist. Sep 29 04:10:09 Argh! I'm working on the wrong revision! Sep 29 04:12:57 heh Sep 29 04:13:02 ouch Sep 29 04:17:08 Yay! I got a compiler error (expected)! Sep 29 04:17:18 * abraxa_ applauds sagacis Sep 29 04:17:32 I spent the last three days writing code in the WRONG revision. Ugh! Sep 29 04:17:51 There are four or five revisions of neod on my system, in different paths. Sep 29 04:17:52 2007.1 instead of 2007.2? Sep 29 04:17:56 Oh Sep 29 04:18:06 Probably .1, to boot. Sep 29 04:20:02 Yay! Compile successfull. Sep 29 04:20:09 Now, to package and try out. Sep 29 04:23:59 * abraxa_ can only imagine how excited sagacis must be Sep 29 04:24:04 hehe Sep 29 04:24:21 I'm vibrating. Which is what my little tiny change is supposed to do. Sep 29 04:24:42 ...turning your neo into a sex toy? ;) Sep 29 04:25:03 lol... Not really. Force feedback for touchscreen. Sep 29 04:25:08 ahh hehe Sep 29 04:27:54 anyone know of another OpenMoko wiki out there? something that's not wiki.openmoko.org Sep 29 04:36:15 i cant get ipkg update to work Sep 29 04:36:38 I get error 404 not found Sep 29 04:41:55 orzo: do you have an /etc/resolv.conf? Sep 29 04:43:21 ya i can ping google.com Sep 29 04:43:42 the servers are responding. They are just responding with 404 not found Sep 29 04:43:56 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/Packages.gz Sep 29 04:44:07 that is the first it tries and fails Sep 29 04:47:49 My ipkg .conf files have been redirected to different places. I think that server's down. Sep 29 04:54:49 hm Sep 29 04:55:17 i think my system is borked now Sep 29 04:55:29 ls doesnt work because it has the wrong version of libc Sep 29 04:56:04 ouch Sep 29 05:01:00 <|R> apt-get install sash Sep 29 05:01:34 orzo: sounds like you attempted to upgrade too far... Sep 29 05:01:34 <|R> sometimes a life saver when everything dies :) Sep 29 05:02:09 <|R> (oh on the moko?) Sep 29 05:04:15 i made a new ssh session into it, and that one can run comadns like ls Sep 29 05:04:30 yes, on the moko Sep 29 05:04:36 So busybox is ok then... Sep 29 05:09:26 how do i restart x on the moko? Sep 29 05:10:01 /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart Sep 29 05:10:26 oh Sep 29 05:10:28 ssh failed Sep 29 05:10:37 i didnt realize Sep 29 05:10:48 ls was working on the other computer Sep 29 05:11:06 so it is borked Sep 29 05:11:15 so how do i recover? Sep 29 05:11:21 do i have to reflash everything? Sep 29 05:11:23 reflash Sep 29 05:11:58 If you can boot to the SD card, you can copy in the original libc, if you have another copy of it. Sep 29 05:12:29 libc hasn't been upgraded since 2007.1, I think -- was your firmware that old? Sep 29 05:13:01 i dont know Sep 29 05:13:20 i flashed it with recent firmware when i first got the phone Sep 29 05:13:31 and never since Sep 29 05:13:37 nor any upgrades since Sep 29 05:16:17 Well then there's really no point in rescuing it, unless you have unrecoverable data on the flash. Sep 29 05:17:52 not unrecoverable, perhaps not so conveniently recoverable Sep 29 05:27:16 i cant seem to shut it off now Sep 29 05:29:42 boots into kernel panic now Sep 29 05:29:48 guess i'll reflash Sep 29 05:35:42 hi there Sep 29 05:35:52 G'day Sep 29 05:37:30 it's actually night here, i'll take it for tomorrow Sep 29 05:37:42 ~uct Sep 29 05:37:44 ok Sep 29 05:37:45 hmm... Sep 29 05:37:58 It's very late here. Sep 29 05:38:59 I cadn't tell what the latest is Sep 29 05:39:11 also i see files called OpenMoko-openmoko- Sep 29 05:39:39 I thought it wasn't supposed to be OpenMoko, but just Openmoko Sep 29 05:40:18 latest should be symlinked to "openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2" Sep 29 05:41:01 ok Sep 29 05:48:03 It's late. G'night! Sep 29 06:29:58 i flashed and now usb networking doesnt seem to work Sep 29 06:30:06 and it doesnt seem to start x automatically Sep 29 06:38:03 <|R> http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-01-pictures.html <- Isn't the guy who invented the cell phone named Martin and not Marty ? (according to wikipedia at least :P) Sep 29 07:33:15 what are the lowlevel image files? do i need them? Sep 29 07:42:04 WTF !!! Neo1973 not in the market yet !!! Sep 29 07:42:07 * CVirus runs away Sep 29 07:42:09 :-p Sep 29 07:44:00 I have a question ... when the Ne01973 is released in december and I buy it ... What if -after using it for sometime- any of the hardware components is not functioning properly Sep 29 07:44:36 you mean if the hardware dies? Sep 29 07:44:51 maybe Sep 29 07:45:30 I mean normal mobile phones have maintenance shops everywhere Sep 29 07:45:40 but the Neo1973 is new to my country's market Sep 29 07:45:46 and no one except me would buy it Sep 29 07:45:58 we don't have open source awareness here Sep 29 07:46:38 well i think the hope is that it will be sold just like other phones by december 2008 Sep 29 07:46:50 through phone shops, with contracts, etc. Sep 29 07:46:56 not in Egypt :-) Sep 29 07:48:01 and the other hope is that neo1973 won't be the only phone running openmoko by then. Sep 29 07:49:34 our market is invaded by nokia Sep 29 07:49:39 stupid country Sep 29 07:50:31 one way or another .. I'm getting the Neo1973 Sep 29 07:51:38 CVirus: there are worse phones to be invaded by :) Sep 29 07:51:46 hehe Sep 29 07:52:57 I wonder how are you people waiting till december Sep 29 07:53:06 I can't believe I can hang on Sep 29 08:02:35 Where are the Neo1973 production factories ? Sep 29 08:03:44 CVirus: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/15/#20070615-gta01-factory-trip Sep 29 08:06:15 abraxa_: thanks Sep 29 08:13:55 I guess I have to stop staring at those lovely Neo pictures Sep 29 08:14:36 Why? Sep 29 08:46:30 good morning Sep 29 08:46:32 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Current_events]] [[FreeBSD]] Sep 29 09:23:38 openmoko builds again Sep 29 09:39:22 is libdsl fixed in the feed / Sep 29 09:39:25 ? Sep 29 09:56:15 any scummvm-gurus around? i remember having a simple kbd on the bottom on my 910i to play with a touchscreen - how can i switch that on on the neo? Sep 29 10:17:25 rwhitby, have you done remote debugging via jtag yet? Sep 29 10:33:00 Shoragan: no Sep 29 10:33:07 just devirginating Sep 29 10:33:15 ah Sep 29 10:33:20 (and reflashing on nslu2 by jtag) Sep 29 10:41:54 has anyone else been having problems with dbus lately... Sep 29 10:42:02 or is that just me ? Sep 29 10:43:21 I'm getting Failed to open connection to session message bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Sep 29 10:43:45 every time I try to run any ap which uses dbus Sep 29 10:43:58 ap -> application Sep 29 10:46:52 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FreeBSD]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[P1_Owners]] Sep 29 10:56:15 hello Sep 29 10:56:56 polz: yes, i have that too, i start it by hand before starting any app Sep 29 10:58:16 is there any way to get the phone a bit cheaper? because i'm 16 and don't have so much money as the new version would cost. Sep 29 10:58:27 i can make advertisement on my homepage. Sep 29 10:58:42 ... Sep 29 10:59:52 i have no time for building apps for it until july 2008. because there are some robot competitions. maybe i will use the phone on my robot with the cam, opencv lib for finding things. Sep 29 11:00:25 thomasgruebler, could you perhaps ask your parents to lease you one, or get you one as a christmas present? Sep 29 11:01:06 i'm not sure because i already got a new laptop for birthday. Sep 29 11:01:09 thomas, the phone has no camera, so you'll need an external webcam Sep 29 11:01:11 lenovo thinkpad Sep 29 11:01:42 yes but the end version that will come out in december has one. (i read it) Sep 29 11:01:52 no, it has no camera Sep 29 11:02:23 ok Sep 29 11:02:26 so why not? Sep 29 11:02:36 will it be cheaper than? Sep 29 11:02:42 then Sep 29 11:02:47 because that would make a case change necessary, and that would be expensive Sep 29 11:02:50 no Sep 29 11:03:10 that it will have a camera was a false rumour. Sep 29 11:03:41 ok Sep 29 11:03:46 but i think you should be able to attach a usb camera Sep 29 11:03:47 but wlan Sep 29 11:04:02 ? Sep 29 11:04:07 usb cam is also ok Sep 29 11:04:16 yes, see for example here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison Sep 29 11:04:21 then i can maybe choose one that has more than 25 frames/second Sep 29 11:05:08 does opencv use floating point math? Sep 29 11:05:31 i don't know Sep 29 11:05:34 i never used it Sep 29 11:05:44 i currently learn c++ Sep 29 11:05:51 bevore i start this Sep 29 11:05:52 thomasgruebler, someone like roh might be able to tell you whether it could be reasonable for you to propose openmoko or fic to sponsor your robot Sep 29 11:06:01 really Sep 29 11:06:05 that would be cool Sep 29 11:06:34 as far as i know, they want to encourage hardware hacking Sep 29 11:06:46 super Sep 29 11:07:09 may you give me roh's emal adress? Sep 29 11:07:43 i don't know it but he's here on the channel Sep 29 11:08:51 is it allowed to write private msg's Sep 29 11:08:53 ? Sep 29 11:09:25 well, you need to be registered on freenode at least Sep 29 11:09:25 I imagine so - I've never heard it said you can't. Sep 29 11:09:42 yes, you need to be registered. Sep 29 11:09:43 thomasgruebler, i'm 16 too, its no excuse :) Sep 29 11:10:02 i think i'm registered. but it should be unpolite to do it Sep 29 11:10:03 /msg nickserv register password(thatyoupick) Sep 29 11:10:43 konversation does it automaticly so i'm not sure Sep 29 11:10:48 cb22, now a pissing contest on which one of you is a more spoiled child to have internet and all ;-D Sep 29 11:10:49 lunch Sep 29 11:10:50 bye Sep 29 11:10:54 * SpeedEvil wonders if he could get sponsorship for using the Neo as an engine control unit in a Porche 911. Sep 29 11:12:09 * cb22 has been saving up money here and there, now i have R4800 ~ $685 for the phone Sep 29 11:12:09 and thats after buying a bluetooth keyboard and a 4gb microsd for it Sep 29 11:20:02 tuukkah, i would, but ping me :) Sep 29 11:20:02 my ping is something like 30 seconds O-o Sep 29 11:21:54 i see 3.5 seconds, not nice. i have daily quota of 1GB, also not nice Sep 29 11:26:14 i'm back Sep 29 11:33:46 tuukkah, lol Sep 29 11:33:54 i have a monthly quota of 5gb Sep 29 11:34:37 as a finnish student, i seem to have lost :-) Sep 29 11:45:05 现在的openmoko手机可以实现正常的电话功能了么? Sep 29 11:46:30 winu1: ?? Sep 29 11:46:40 winu1: can you speak english? the current software works for calls, but it is still very buggy. Sep 29 11:50:36 oh, pH5,i know Sep 29 11:51:20 winu1: then I didn't understand the machine translation of your question :) Sep 29 11:51:53 ~x zh en 现在的openmoko手机可以实现正常的电话功能了么? Sep 29 11:51:56 The present openmoko handset was allowed to realize the normal telephone function? Sep 29 11:52:24 yes , as the apt tells Sep 29 11:57:08 i see the openmoko full development set cost 450 $ , i wanna if i should pay for the postage ? Sep 29 11:59:15 winu1: you only need the development set if you want to be able to modify the hardware Sep 29 11:59:31 winu1: the development kit includes an USB hub and JTAG adapter. Sep 29 11:59:45 winu1: you don't need that for software development Sep 29 12:00:05 but it's very useful Sep 29 12:00:33 especially if you manage to erase the bootloader Sep 29 12:01:42 so if i wanna develop software for openmoko ,the base set is enough , right? Sep 29 12:02:19 winu1: certainly, yes. Sep 29 12:02:30 so i only need a usb hub Sep 29 12:03:01 actually, for developing you don't need to buy anything. your desktop computer is enough. You do need the kit for final testing though Sep 29 12:03:32 Jiten: and besides testing, the actual device is good for motivation, too ;) Sep 29 12:03:40 yeah, that too Sep 29 12:04:40 if your motivation depends on being able to use whatever you're making, it's crucial :) Sep 29 12:04:59 the base kit contain a phone and a usb hub , right? Sep 29 12:05:59 I don't recall seeing anything about usb hub in the list for base kit. Sep 29 12:07:25 if i wanna modify the system , is the openmoko base kit enough? Sep 29 12:08:35 software hacking -> base kit. hardware (and software) hacking -> advanced kit Sep 29 12:26:12 is it right that the new prozessor should be an ARM? Sep 29 12:26:38 can i use every hardware of the arm? Sep 29 12:27:07 i think there is analog/digital conversation, I²C, SPI, ... Sep 29 12:27:39 did you read the wiki page? it tells you exactly which cpu it is Sep 29 12:30:37 you can't use all of the peripherals - some busses are not brought out. Sep 29 12:30:42 and some are used Sep 29 12:31:42 when i open it and connect a cable directly to the prozessor? Sep 29 12:31:59 yes i read it but now i wanted to verify and didn't find the page again Sep 29 12:32:24 guess that's why there are development boards... Sep 29 12:32:34 What do you want to do with it? Sep 29 12:33:16 connecting to other hardware, sensors, microcontrollers (Atmel AVR)... Sep 29 12:33:28 There is an exposed I2C and SPI bus Sep 29 12:33:31 nothing parallel Sep 29 12:33:36 ... to make a robot Sep 29 12:33:53 USB is a good solution for that. Sep 29 12:34:03 no. i need usb for a cam Sep 29 12:34:18 and not every microcontroller has a usb port. Sep 29 12:34:31 and I2C would be a bus. thats better. Sep 29 12:34:34 True, but USB micros are $3 Sep 29 12:34:37 and hubs exist Sep 29 12:35:33 thomasgruebler: prpplague posted a link about this board: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board Sep 29 12:35:39 my robot should stay small Sep 29 12:35:44 thomasgruebler: basically the same processor, but this is intended as a development board Sep 29 12:36:05 That board is almost awesome. Sep 29 12:36:16 no i wait for the later phone with 400MHz Sep 29 12:36:19 If it supported low power modes, it'd be actually. Sep 29 12:36:28 This is a $150 board Sep 29 12:36:34 compared to a $450 phone. Sep 29 12:36:51 And it's got the same parts. - apart from a screen as compared. Sep 29 12:36:59 yes Sep 29 12:37:33 i'm currently searching for everthing i can get. but it must be fast 400MHz or much more Sep 29 12:38:51 a phone would be also good because my current one has software bugs and a broken connector. Sep 29 12:38:55 and i love linux Sep 29 12:40:38 Why must it be 400Mhz? Sep 29 12:40:56 You do know that 400Mhz in a mobile processor is much slower than 400Mhz in a desktop? Sep 29 12:41:06 really? Sep 29 12:41:10 yes. Sep 29 12:41:18 then i need much more Sep 29 12:41:20 Less cache, one execution unit, rather than several. Sep 29 12:41:26 Why do you? Sep 29 12:41:38 opencv Sep 29 12:41:58 ? Sep 29 12:42:02 finding red and blue pucks on a white playground by cam Sep 29 12:42:11 driving to them Sep 29 12:42:16 and bringing them to a homebase Sep 29 12:42:20 That's not exactly a complex computing task. Sep 29 12:42:31 When processing a 320*240 image or something. Sep 29 12:42:32 but i want 30fps Sep 29 12:42:41 that's the problem Sep 29 12:42:43 fast Sep 29 12:43:01 Your robot is going to react in 33ms? Sep 29 12:43:16 What sort of servos have you got that can do that? Sep 29 12:43:27 faulhaber motors Sep 29 12:43:39 1:8 gear, omniwheels Sep 29 12:43:45 football Sep 29 12:43:59 Also - USB1.1 camera - you won't get much resolution. Sep 29 12:44:01 if it's possible a acceleration of 4-5m/s² Sep 29 12:44:10 i don't need resolution Sep 29 12:44:11 speed Sep 29 12:44:59 i know people who have 60fps Sep 29 12:45:07 but on strong servers Sep 29 12:46:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu/it]] Sep 29 12:46:39 For simple machine vision tasks, where you're tracking something, not locating it every frame, things can get _lots_ simpler. Sep 29 12:46:59 but i need every frame Sep 29 12:47:10 No, you don't. Sep 29 12:47:11 when i drive by full speed to the part Sep 29 12:47:25 You need to only locate it within a small part of the frame. Sep 29 12:47:27 then the robot should reach the correct place Sep 29 12:47:44 the wheels could slip Sep 29 12:47:55 it's not going to move dramatically and unexpectedly. Sep 29 12:48:05 The better way to deal with that is an accelerometer Sep 29 12:48:14 which will give you a direct read on wheelslip Sep 29 12:48:47 yes i already plan to use it Sep 29 12:48:50 Especially if you add a gyro. That would give you an exact heading. Sep 29 12:49:10 To correct the track even faster than 30fps Sep 29 12:50:08 mhm Sep 29 12:50:16 do you know where i can find a gyro? Sep 29 12:50:50 Ghiottone|http://www.sparkfun.org/ has some Sep 29 12:52:00 the link is wrong Sep 29 12:52:06 The basic point is - if the puck is not going to manoever, then if you know where it is - with relation to your robot chassis - from size, and position in the image, then it's not going to move. Sep 29 12:52:12 sparkfun.com rather I think. Sep 29 12:52:26 Rather - move round the frame unexpectedly. Sep 29 12:53:00 If the wheel slips, the gyro tells you this, and yoy update where you're searching the image from. Sep 29 12:53:20 are accelerometers in a gyro? Sep 29 12:53:27 No. Sep 29 12:53:35 accelerometes measure accelleration. Sep 29 12:53:40 gyros measure rotation. Sep 29 12:54:10 ok Sep 29 12:54:41 but then i think a gyro also needs a accelerometer to really calculate slipping Sep 29 12:55:00 It depends. Sep 29 12:55:04 You've got two wheels? Sep 29 12:55:09 Or two driving wheels. Sep 29 12:55:20 If one slips, then you turn. Sep 29 12:55:44 If both slip, then you simply accellerate slower. Sep 29 12:55:54 what the accelerometer could help with is traction control. Sep 29 12:56:07 especially in combination with the gyro. Sep 29 12:57:26 hi Sep 29 13:01:53 hanks Sep 29 13:01:54 thanks Sep 29 13:12:32 hi all Sep 29 13:13:03 hi Sep 29 13:13:38 yesterday I bought the phone :) Sep 29 13:14:35 i thought there are no more phones avaiable? Sep 29 13:14:43 thomasgruebler, just use a usb hub Sep 29 13:14:43 *simple* Sep 29 13:15:11 cb22: mikrocontrollers don't like usb Sep 29 13:15:58 which package is supposed to contain dbus-uuidgen ? Sep 29 13:17:36 Many microcontrollers like USB. just fine. Sep 29 13:17:52 bl4d3: cogratulations - any further email? Sep 29 13:18:01 polz: dbus-1 Sep 29 13:18:21 no. Sep 29 13:18:25 nit 8bit microcontrollers Sep 29 13:19:31 thomasgruebler: where do you do this project? in school? Sep 29 13:19:42 at home Sep 29 13:19:59 but i can get oszilloskopes in school Sep 29 13:20:57 hello in wich language the openmoki libs are accesible? Sep 29 13:20:58 GNUtoo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 29 13:23:34 thomasgruebler: so it's not a school-project or similar? you work on that your own? Sep 29 13:23:53 yes Sep 29 13:23:55 with a friend Sep 29 13:24:20 in all my free time Sep 29 13:24:47 in school i could have problems with teachers... Sep 29 13:25:00 i want to do it at home because then i'm faster. Sep 29 13:25:01 thomasgruebler: i did a similar project in the past as a teacher... we used linux/java and a microcontroler with c Sep 29 13:25:21 thomasgruebler: what do you mean 'problem with teacher'? Sep 29 13:25:50 they mostly don't know programming languages Sep 29 13:26:07 maybe thats not such a problem Sep 29 13:26:09 thomasgruebler: :D yes, it's a common problem of those guys... Sep 29 13:26:42 bying somehting in school is maybe not so simple if i'm at home and click on some web pages Sep 29 13:26:48 :D Sep 29 13:27:02 and then there are schoolars who don't know anything Sep 29 13:27:28 i'm sixteen. and surely the only guy on this school who knows C and a bit C++ in this age. Sep 29 13:27:34 and linux Sep 29 13:27:50 thomasgruebler: that's not uncommon too... :/ Sep 29 13:28:14 maybe there are others who want to work with us Sep 29 13:28:16 Yeah it's sad... When I was 14, we had a computer club at school where we learned C :] Sep 29 13:28:32 then they don't know anything Sep 29 13:28:42 like good programming, clean... Sep 29 13:28:47 fast programming Sep 29 13:29:03 thomasgruebler: did you any c projects already? Sep 29 13:29:14 our teacher discribed us when we started vb. ... Sep 29 13:29:17 thomasgruebler: which school? Sep 29 13:29:18 yes. www.gruebler.at Sep 29 13:29:46 datatypes of variables must be known but we should always use the biggest one :D Sep 29 13:30:13 it's a mistake in Java that when a variable has a overflow it begans at it's lowest value Sep 29 13:30:44 i'm in austria. a higher techical school. Sep 29 13:31:14 so i'm also not very good at english Sep 29 13:31:32 Your english is better than my australian. (joking) Sep 29 13:31:33 in the hello world howto they only talk about the C languages...are there any other binding(perl? python?) Sep 29 13:31:45 at my school in germany there are maybe 3 or 4 people who know linux Sep 29 13:31:55 australian!=austria. Sep 29 13:32:05 I know. Sep 29 13:32:21 to my c projects: a robot that collects pucks. 2 versions, 2 times 2nd place. Sep 29 13:32:32 at the competition www.robotchallenge.at Sep 29 13:32:32 thomasgruebler: robocup? Sep 29 13:32:47 robocup will come now Sep 29 13:32:50 junior Sep 29 13:32:53 with football Sep 29 13:33:06 ah Sep 29 13:33:07 GNUtoo: at least there was almost complete Python bindings project, don't know about current state Sep 29 13:33:12 currently i'm planning for it Sep 29 13:33:15 finding sponsors... Sep 29 13:33:19 SpeedEvil: sry, toook me month to figure that out in the past... :D Sep 29 13:33:37 aloril, thanks, where can i find this project? Sep 29 13:33:37 thomasgruebler: good luck Sep 29 13:33:41 thanks Sep 29 13:33:51 until now i had no sponsors Sep 29 13:33:53 GNUtoo: python/ctypes always works... Sep 29 13:33:58 but it always costs more :D Sep 29 13:34:02 only my parents Sep 29 13:34:28 a friend of mine is looking for sponsors for the robocup too Sep 29 13:34:55 grepping from irc logs I get this url (haven't checked now): http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/bindings/ Sep 29 13:34:57 thomasgruebler, lucky Sep 29 13:35:02 your parents support you :) Sep 29 13:35:09 so no perl (i will have to learn python...) Sep 29 13:35:18 but no pocket money. Sep 29 13:35:33 but it's better so because i could never build a robot from pocket money Sep 29 13:35:40 until 6 months ago or so, i had a p3 as a computer Sep 29 13:35:54 * SpeedEvil is on PII ATM. Sep 29 13:36:22 and? Sep 29 13:36:40 Laptop, 1.1Kg, 8 hour battery life. Sep 29 13:36:48 cool Sep 29 13:36:58 ATM... Sep 29 13:36:58 at my school in germany there are maybe 3 or 4 people who know linux Sep 29 13:37:01 at my school there is me and my friend Sep 29 13:37:15 at my school theres me Sep 29 13:37:31 and once i saw one from 1st class who wore a penguin on his t shirt Sep 29 13:37:52 thomasgruebler: so perhaps you just don't know... Sep 29 13:38:09 next time i speak with him when i see him Sep 29 13:38:18 and he wears this tshirt Sep 29 13:38:37 there's a additional lesson for linux Sep 29 13:39:02 there i also go. but nobody know's how to use it the whole day Sep 29 13:39:03 :D Sep 29 13:39:14 so nobody could use it instead of windows Sep 29 13:39:34 I was in a similar situation back then when I went to school Sep 29 13:40:34 thomasgruebler: when i teached java (at a big germany company) i always had problems to keep the students with linux... windows is so much more attractive :/ Sep 29 13:40:59 yes Sep 29 13:41:12 i would like it to have only linux on school computers. Sep 29 13:41:21 thomasgruebler: they did not believe me that most of their problems with development are just gone with linux Sep 29 13:41:28 windows only for special things like cad lessons. Sep 29 13:41:39 for popular applications like autocad. Sep 29 13:42:12 thomasgruebler: i tried to support some students that tried to do that... it's hard in a windows world. Sep 29 13:42:36 the problems where why i changed to linux. it was like roulett to get a working parallel-isp adapter unter xp wen i booted. unetr linux it worked all the time Sep 29 13:42:44 thomasgruebler: had lots of dicussions with the principal... Sep 29 13:42:54 :D Sep 29 13:42:54 The only valid reason for Windows marketshare is all the specialized apps that have been written for it: Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. Sep 29 13:43:13 yes Sep 29 13:43:17 i guess nowadays you can run many of these in wine Sep 29 13:43:24 Not AutoCAD Sep 29 13:43:26 its a bitch Sep 29 13:43:30 but proe for exaple has a linux version and is very popular Sep 29 13:43:30 Photoshop you can though Sep 29 13:43:32 wine seems to have made quite a bit of progress over the last months Sep 29 13:43:45 yea Sep 29 13:43:49 thomasgruebler, do you go to a tech school? Sep 29 13:43:52 thomasgruebler: last argument was always some software like the compiler suit for the microcontroler that only worked with windows. we used a linux makefile and wine to get it running ;) Sep 29 13:43:53 yes Sep 29 13:44:05 I'm install wine 0.9.46 as we speak Sep 29 13:44:18 the gnu compilers runs fine on linux Sep 29 13:44:25 for atmel avr microcontrollers. Sep 29 13:44:37 for C Sep 29 13:44:39 or c++ Sep 29 13:45:00 Only valid reason for the to still use Windows (on some computer I start up less than once a month) is to backup my cell phone Sep 29 13:45:14 :D Sep 29 13:45:21 and that should end with openmoko ;) Sep 29 13:45:25 Do you guys know is python selected as the interpreter of choice on the moko? Sep 29 13:45:35 thomasgruebler: shure, but they had their own sdk which needed windows. pimping CC= we used gnu-make under linux just fine ;) Sep 29 13:45:57 what microcontroller? Sep 29 13:46:02 * mjr is not aware of the "interpreter of choice" having been chosen, but at least mickeyl has been supporting python Sep 29 13:46:04 xilinx is also linux able Sep 29 13:46:12 pics can be also used on linux Sep 29 13:46:24 there are also sdk's Sep 29 13:46:43 thomasgruebler: the sdk was already choosen... :( Sep 29 13:46:45 my "interpreter of choice" for embedded systems is busybox ash+awk ;) Sep 29 13:46:51 :D Sep 29 13:47:26 but then again, most of my devices don't have enough space for python Sep 29 13:47:30 nbd: don't forget good old sed - no need for perl at all... Sep 29 13:47:30 busybox isn't feature-for-feature compatible with the non-busyboxed versions though right? Sep 29 13:47:37 and i've never actually written any python Sep 29 13:47:38 So wouldn't that make it harder to dev for Sep 29 13:48:04 dtx: non-busyboxed means what? Sep 29 13:48:07 I like python Sep 29 13:48:30 dtx: shure python is wonderful, but fat Sep 29 13:48:33 The programs busybox is imitates Sep 29 13:48:44 yea Sep 29 13:48:46 dtx: well, if you write stuff for busybox, it'll typically run on bash and gawk as well Sep 29 13:48:48 But featurefull Sep 29 13:48:58 typically Sep 29 13:49:07 dtx: even those are not the same - you probably talk about the gnu versions of it... Sep 29 13:49:08 But I thought I encountered some exceptions Sep 29 13:49:48 dtx: even gnu-something is not feature compatible to say solaris-something Sep 29 13:51:08 so how works openmoko with linux on the pc Sep 29 13:51:17 not so good as with linux? Sep 29 13:51:21 thomasgruebler: in qemu? Sep 29 13:51:21 erm windows Sep 29 13:51:30 no Sep 29 13:51:33 the sdk Sep 29 13:51:49 OpenMoko can run natively on anything with Linux on it, correct? Sep 29 13:51:53 thomasgruebler: i never tried windows... have none Sep 29 13:52:28 ok Sep 29 13:52:38 thats the best way Sep 29 13:53:02 thomasgruebler: no, not the best, the easiest. i'm lazy. Sep 29 13:53:20 best way is to never use windows Sep 29 13:53:21 ;) Sep 29 13:54:26 thomasgruebler: may be. i don't know. i am faster with a unix-like os... Sep 29 13:55:14 ok Sep 29 13:56:08 dtx, if you are talking about the applications, yes Sep 29 13:56:16 Whoever believes he could use his openmoko as a Modem to connect his laptop to the Internet: Forget it, GPRS is so damn slow, even EDGE is a pain. Sep 29 13:56:40 EDGE supposedly gets up to 200kbs right? Sep 29 13:56:42 approx. Sep 29 13:56:52 Cmdr_Zod, but thats no specific to openmoko, gprs ist just slow Sep 29 13:56:57 dtx: if your operator supports it... Sep 29 13:57:07 hmmm Sep 29 13:57:08 Cmdr_Zod, I already use it, so I won't Sep 29 13:57:23 But regardless it won't be slower than 56k Sep 29 13:57:34 EDGE is up to 473.6k with 8 timeslots Sep 29 13:57:38 BTW, does OpenMoko support EDGE or just GPRS Sep 29 13:57:44 dtx, just GPRS Sep 29 13:57:48 damn Sep 29 13:57:53 well Sep 29 13:57:59 Neo1973 supports just GPRS Sep 29 13:58:09 right Sep 29 13:58:15 I should have refined that statement Sep 29 13:58:23 * rwhitby finally gets the Treo650 to pair with, and connect to via dund, the Neo. Sep 29 13:58:27 I have about 20 KByte/s with EDGE on swiss Sunrise network. Sep 29 13:58:55 rwhitby, could you document that somewhere? Sep 29 13:58:58 I have a feeling I will only be using mobile wireless for emergency maps 'n stuff Sep 29 13:59:06 you can disable pictures in some browsers then you can use slow internet as well Sep 29 13:59:22 the opera mini is a perfect web client for java mibile fones Sep 29 13:59:29 gprs is good enough for email and im Sep 29 13:59:36 yes Sep 29 13:59:50 a 2400kbps modem is good enough for that Sep 29 13:59:53 dtx: It is the same for me, unfortunately my fixed line is broken since last Thursday, and EDGE is all I get here Sep 29 14:00:03 * cb22 read that to impliment edge, the providers just needed to do a software upgrade Sep 29 14:00:57 cb22: Not only the provider needs to support EDGE, the end user device has to support it too, or you don't profit at all Sep 29 14:01:26 Shoragan: already did a while back. just edited it to add the missing clue about setting the class correctly in /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf. http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/connecting-a-treo650-to-an-openembedded-based-firmware-distribution.html Sep 29 14:01:36 of course it does, duh Sep 29 14:01:43 and what's the problem to support edge on neo? Sep 29 14:01:55 thomasgruebler, the GSM chipset doesn't, that simple Sep 29 14:02:21 ok Sep 29 14:02:27 no bueno Sep 29 14:03:12 Cmdr_Zod, i know, but what i'm saying is i read that they implimented it in software Sep 29 14:03:18 Has there been any talks with the Ubuntu Mobile people to try to merge forces on this stuff? Sep 29 14:03:44 on their end they implemented it in software though, right? Sep 29 14:03:59 not on the phone end Sep 29 14:04:14 I never heard of any phone that could be updated to EDGE Sep 29 14:04:19 right, but the hardware at the providers' end is probably a lot more flexible Sep 29 14:04:38 whereas everybody knows phones are throwaway devices that you replace when you get bored with the ringtone\ Sep 29 14:05:32 see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution Sep 29 14:05:50 Cmdr_Zod, at least in practice (that is, the chip sellers don't want to upgrade them, even if the physically could hack it, which I'm not saying, since I don't know) Sep 29 14:07:43 mjr: EDGE uses a different modulation of the signal, I think GSM chips in phones do that in hardware (saves energy) while Base stations do it in software, which is more flexible Sep 29 14:09:02 and how complicate is it to include edge to the neo? Sep 29 14:09:10 so complicate like umts? Sep 29 14:09:34 but best is that wlan works. thats better than umts Sep 29 14:10:20 thomasgruebler: I think they would need to use a different GSM chipsets which needs a new PCB design (and testing of the new design) and some changes in the GSM daemon Sep 29 14:10:26 that would need a new gsm chipset Sep 29 14:10:50 the next models (after GTA02) will probably support umts Sep 29 14:10:59 ok Sep 29 14:11:00 different GSM chipsets need not necessarily need a new PCB Sep 29 14:11:58 not completely necessarily, no Sep 29 14:12:33 anyway, yeah, faster mobile data will have to wait for future releases (we don't count wifi for mobile data) Sep 29 14:12:40 why is there no stereo speaker in the new phone? (i forgot it) Sep 29 14:12:59 because the space is needed for the wifi chipset Sep 29 14:13:23 oh yes Sep 29 14:13:34 and there's no another space for the speaker? Sep 29 14:14:14 ... Sep 29 14:14:15 no Sep 29 14:14:53 and how good is the sound of the mono spekaer? Sep 29 14:15:30 to my knowledge, it's the same type of speaker, just only one, so quality shouldn't change much... Sep 29 14:15:44 is there a noticeable stereo effect with two speakers only few cm apart? Sep 29 14:15:54 no Sep 29 14:16:00 but the sound is better Sep 29 14:16:11 i never heard a good sound on mono speakers Sep 29 14:16:14 hehe maybe I should get a cheap-o 3G phone and use it as a modem for my Neo Sep 29 14:16:21 hehehe Sep 29 14:16:28 but also a mono radio on 2.1 speakers sounds good Sep 29 14:16:52 you can use one of the umts modems with usb Sep 29 14:17:08 Is umts a cellular technology? Sep 29 14:17:12 dtx, yes Sep 29 14:17:28 how would it work with my SIM in the Neo? Sep 29 14:17:35 thomasgruebler, they generally likely want high-powered USB Sep 29 14:17:51 dtx, wouldn't, you'd need another Sep 29 14:18:08 how much power do we have? Sep 29 14:18:20 And I would suspect the unpowered USB would definitely not work for a radio broadcasting device Sep 29 14:18:23 the minimum 100 mA on GTA02, none on GTA01 Sep 29 14:18:39 oh it will be powered now? Sep 29 14:18:46 morning Sep 29 14:18:51 it will, but doubtfully enough for that use, as said Sep 29 14:19:02 I'm just impressed it has anything though Sep 29 14:19:03 woohoo Sep 29 14:19:09 yeah, it's nice Sep 29 14:19:17 doen GTA02 have powered USB? Sep 29 14:19:23 * rwhitby wonders if he can run pilot-link on the neo to sync the Treo with the Neo ... Sep 29 14:19:24 so i can add a usb mouse Sep 29 14:19:24 does* Sep 29 14:19:26 I can actually use a powered hub then if need be Sep 29 14:19:30 or usb keyboard ;) Sep 29 14:19:38 that would be cool Sep 29 14:19:42 i need no laptop Sep 29 14:19:44 :D Sep 29 14:19:53 anyway, what you _could_ do is just stick your SIM into that "cheap-o 3G phone", have no SIM on the Neo, just use the 3G via Bluetooth, and VOIP for voice calls... ;] Sep 29 14:20:01 yeah Sep 29 14:20:06 Thats what I was thinking Sep 29 14:20:19 Of course what ver of bluetooth is in Neo? Sep 29 14:20:23 2 Sep 29 14:20:26 nice Sep 29 14:20:46 mostly the USB power is nice so that USB gadgets recognize that they're hooked up to something Sep 29 14:20:46 with or without EDR Sep 29 14:20:54 yeah Sep 29 14:20:58 ...can unload my camera when necessary for instance Sep 29 14:21:12 maybe i will hack ma phone i want to buy and add 500mAh Sep 29 14:21:32 thomasgruebler: just buy a battery powered USB hub Sep 29 14:21:36 no problem Sep 29 14:21:43 or, build a usb power injector. Sep 29 14:21:57 i happen to have one from my nokia n770 that works great. Sep 29 14:22:07 how does it work? Sep 29 14:22:13 (i put a switch in, disabling power to the nokia) Sep 29 14:22:14 yeah, those nokia tablets have the same deal as gta01 Sep 29 14:22:35 dtx, just puts 5 V on the power lines while passing through the data lines Sep 29 14:22:48 mjr: not quite. the nokia requires 5V in, as well as you to supply your own 5v to the device. Sep 29 14:23:16 I see Sep 29 14:23:19 i never saw such a hub Sep 29 14:23:29 you never looked Sep 29 14:23:34 i'm not sure that the neo requires that 5v in. so i put a switch on my 'altoids tin' disabling it. Sep 29 14:24:09 I have a couple battery powered hubs Sep 29 14:24:13 what happens if i make a shourt circuit on the usb port or want to get more than 100mA Sep 29 14:24:14 rechargeable from USB Sep 29 14:24:14 ? Sep 29 14:24:23 so it will draw 100mA from the Neo while connected though Sep 29 14:25:01 thomas: a "bad" short could burn out your usb. Sep 29 14:25:45 USB has current negotiation, so devices shouldn't draw over 100 mA from it. If they do, I dunno, bad things may happen Sep 29 14:26:03 Search for CyberPower Battery Powered USB Hub Sep 29 14:26:08 It works pretty well Sep 29 14:26:21 mjr: there's plenty of dim devices out there though. Sep 29 14:26:24 I operate a bar code scanner and tethered camera off it Sep 29 14:26:51 mjr: i built my altoids tin with 1A of available current, to the nokia, and to the device. 2A total. :) Sep 29 14:27:30 "just in case". i was able to power a usb 2.5" hard drive off a 9V battery, and mount it on my pda. Sep 29 14:27:49 1 pound?????????????????????????????????????????? Sep 29 14:27:53 it's a bit much Sep 29 14:28:57 hmm.. since the neo will charge from usb.. that means i'm probably safe supplying voltage to it... Sep 29 14:29:09 *nod* Sep 29 14:29:23 though with GTA02, you probably won't want to Sep 29 14:29:26 which, since i put a 12V port on my altoid tin... means i have a neo car charger. :) Sep 29 14:29:50 in host mode, though you'll probably be able to control when neo supplies power (one presumes...) Sep 29 14:30:16 * rwhitby uses the Treo650 (via bluetooth dund) to ssh to the Neo1973, and type in ipkg update, which then travels over a different bluetooth pand connection to an NSLU2 and from there out to the internet ... Sep 29 14:30:23 i will hack the phone to get full 500mA from usb ports Sep 29 14:30:49 simultaneous incoming and outgoing bluetooth connections to/from the neo Sep 29 14:30:49 erm Sep 29 14:30:58 how much volts does the akku have? Sep 29 14:31:15 3.7V Sep 29 14:31:19 oh Sep 29 14:31:26 thats not easy to make 5V out of it Sep 29 14:31:40 thats why gta02 will only supply 100mA Sep 29 14:31:46 yes Sep 29 14:31:52 i understand Sep 29 14:32:06 bluetooth 2.0 is the high speed bluetooth correct? Sep 29 14:32:08 but you can easily use an extern 5v supply Sep 29 14:32:20 2.0 EDR+ is more high speed Sep 29 14:32:24 yes Sep 29 14:32:36 on my robot will be a extra accu :D Sep 29 14:32:41 what's the difference between 2.0 and 2.0EDR? Sep 29 14:32:48 2 or 4Ah, 11.1V Sep 29 14:32:53 2.0edr is faster Sep 29 14:33:09 I'm trying to find the speeds online Sep 29 14:33:13 but it is proving difficult Sep 29 14:33:36 wikipedia? Sep 29 14:35:57 It shows the speed of Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR Sep 29 14:36:02 But not Bluetooth 2.0 Sep 29 14:36:11 Is 2.0 not always EDR? Sep 29 14:37:49 Oh nevermind Sep 29 14:37:59 2.0 without EDR is the same speed as 1.2 Sep 29 14:38:08 So does it have 2.0 + EDR? Sep 29 14:41:59 bt support 10m and 100m range as i understand - which one is supported by the neo? Sep 29 14:42:09 s/support/supports/ Sep 29 14:42:09 emdete meant: bt supports 10m and 100m range as i understand - which one is supported by the neo? Sep 29 14:43:36 it's edr, I think it's the 10m class Sep 29 14:44:29 yeah, Class 2 2.5 mW (4 dBm) ~10 meters Sep 29 14:44:44 cool Sep 29 14:44:58 can't wait for this puppy Sep 29 14:45:31 I wish they'd solidify the hardware and do another dev release Sep 29 14:45:34 I want one Sep 29 14:46:04 dtx: same to me - i really would like to see graph-performance with that s-media chip... Sep 29 14:46:10 I've been playing with the emulator for too long now Sep 29 14:46:18 yeah Sep 29 14:46:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[User:Fradeve11]] [[Installation_guide/it]] [[Installation_guide]] Sep 29 15:09:30 dtx, same here Sep 29 15:10:41 hi Sep 29 15:36:24 hi Sep 29 15:36:57 hi Sep 29 15:38:33 Hi Sep 29 15:39:50 hi Sep 29 15:51:07 So it is impossible to get a gta02 even without openmoko before december? Sep 29 15:51:08 b3nne: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 29 15:53:30 from MokoMakefile, `make flash-qemu-local run-qemu` does not boot a kernel in qemu. addresses seem to mismatch (0x31000000 vs 0x32000000). Any hints? Sep 29 15:59:14 b2nne, "without openmoko"? Sep 29 16:05:49 yes Sep 29 16:05:55 or with Sep 29 16:06:04 I just want the phone with that hardware Sep 29 16:09:01 maybe you don't want the debug board Sep 29 16:09:17 or do you only want the case? Sep 29 16:09:28 without the prozessor, gsm module, everthing Sep 29 16:10:37 what... Sep 29 16:11:10 I want the phone as it will be in december but with the openmoko beta or something like that:P Sep 29 16:13:12 the gta02 will almost certainly ship before openmoko is ready for general consumers Sep 29 16:13:35 zmedico: what made you so sure ? Sep 29 16:13:57 b3nne: In that case I guess you will want the GTA02 P1 release Sep 29 16:14:01 yes there is one version since 20 sept. but it's only for developers Sep 29 16:14:02 the gta01 did too, right? Sep 29 16:14:48 when will they release that one then. alphaone? Sep 29 16:14:58 20 sept? Sep 29 16:15:08 already released Sep 29 16:15:16 nice Sep 29 16:15:19 b3nne: we're 29 sept already ! Sep 29 16:15:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 Sep 29 16:15:24 oct 20 Sep 29 16:15:25 sry Sep 29 16:15:27 i know Sep 29 16:15:27 hehe im a bit lost :P Sep 29 16:16:00 b3nne: No real date yet. Sep 29 16:16:00 so it has the same harware as the phone that is released in dec? :P Sep 29 16:16:23 no Sep 29 16:16:23 b3nne: no Sep 29 16:16:37 if the hardware has really no failure: yes Sep 29 16:16:40 b3nne: I would have bought it if so :-) Sep 29 16:16:44 wait now... I think yout confusing me CVirus :P Sep 29 16:21:36 *sigh* just too many qemu's running that were not killed... Sep 29 16:22:04 (and on a sienote, `most_recent` not finding the most recent rootfs) Sep 29 16:22:25 So they are going to produce more GTA01s? Sep 29 16:23:16 the percentages shown when doing nand erase/write are fscked, tho. Sep 29 16:23:47 for sale? Sep 29 16:27:36 would be nice if the image started the X server, really. But I might just do that on the Neo itself. enough for today, either way. Sep 29 16:47:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Contacts/2007.2]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] Sep 29 16:51:22 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3059 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (fix-change_console-race.patch series): Sep 29 16:51:22 openmoko: Fix a race exposed by CFS while switching virtual consoles. Sep 29 16:51:22 openmoko: I've submitted this to lkml. Sep 29 16:54:54 * amarsh04 notices shoragan's bug fix and notes how gnu/linux's cross platform nature helps expose bugs Sep 29 16:55:27 it will probably also trigger on other platforms Sep 29 16:55:49 it's just most people testing the rcs don't use psplash Sep 29 17:19:59 is it hard to install openmoko on the phone? Sep 29 17:20:31 no Sep 29 17:20:46 done in 15mins Sep 29 17:21:31 why? Sep 29 17:22:48 PP|Spydon, you mean on the neo right? Sep 29 17:23:03 yes Sep 29 17:23:10 yeah, its easy Sep 29 17:23:50 if I buy the GTA02ps1, I will be able to update it when the "full version" of open moko comes out Sep 29 17:23:51 it's more 5 minutes than 15 :) Sep 29 17:24:13 GTA02ps1? Sep 29 17:24:36 he means gta02 then my nick Psi Sep 29 17:24:39 thomasg depends on how often you did it before and the speed of your internet connection Sep 29 17:25:25 I think 15mins is fair for first time, given you have a Linux system. If you do not have a linux system, you need to add the time to download and burn a Live CD Sep 29 17:25:39 yeah, someone told me that gta02 will be released before december but not with the stable openmoko Sep 29 17:25:54 ofc I have a linux system :P Sep 29 17:26:04 yeah, thats correct Sep 29 17:26:06 afaik Sep 29 17:26:36 wasnt the name of that one GTA02ps1? :P Sep 29 17:26:42 or something like that? :P Sep 29 17:26:49 ps0? Sep 29 17:27:06 oh it wasnt a mistake Sep 29 17:27:30 ive never heard of gta02ps before Sep 29 17:27:43 okay Sep 29 17:27:53 do you mean GTA02 P0, P1 and so on? Sep 29 17:28:01 probably :P Sep 29 17:28:30 "Oct 20 - GTA02v3 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers." - can "normal" people buy the phone when you send it to the developers? Sep 29 17:29:31 PP|Spydon, it may be available in the webshop in december Sep 29 17:29:39 damn Sep 29 17:30:19 :'( So I wont have a phone til december then :P Sep 29 17:34:46 PP|Spydon: it is unlikely that you will hold it in your hand this year Sep 29 17:35:02 WHAT?! :P Sep 29 17:35:44 there is an optimistic schedule that would mean its in your hand december 25 (if thats not a holiday where you live), but thats optimistic Sep 29 17:36:25 so I do not really expect to have mine before january Sep 29 17:41:35 crap :P Sep 29 17:43:16 yes Sep 29 17:43:42 but given the state of the software, you're not loosing much Sep 29 17:45:02 * hhf423 flashes the latest ScaredyCat qtopia build Sep 29 17:45:28 hhf423, which url? Sep 29 17:45:49 Shoragan: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Sep 29 17:46:49 did anyone hear anything about the status of GPS? Sep 29 17:47:04 Hurry up and polish the OpenMoko... I want one. Sep 29 17:47:08 :P Sep 29 17:47:49 Kal_Torak: you want openmoko or a Neo? Sep 29 17:48:22 hhf423: gllin for eabi is not ready :( Sep 29 17:48:23 The Neo actually Sep 29 17:49:12 Kal_Torak: GTA01 or GTA02? Sep 29 17:49:22 I'm an advanced end user with some minimal C++ skills sorta guy Sep 29 17:49:42 fgau: is there then a rumor that someone is working on it? Is there hope? Sep 29 17:50:14 hhf423, mickeyl is in portual at the moment, he'll probably work on the gllin problem when he returns Sep 29 17:50:32 hhf423: mickeyl says, they have not enough support from broadcom Sep 29 17:50:34 Probably GTA02 Sep 29 17:51:05 Shoragan: I forgot how long mickey is on vacation, is he back already? Sep 29 17:51:57 i don't know Sep 29 17:52:12 fgau: so there is no change on the broadcom situation? Sep 29 17:52:18 That's not surprising, really. Firstly, Broadcom has a dedicated staff of lawyers who are probably doing everything they can to NOT release the library, and secondly, Broadcom knows the the GTA02 won't be using a Broadcom chip -- so there's no incentive for them to do ANYTHING to help us out, at all. Sep 29 17:52:48 mwester: the decision not to have broadcom in GTA02 is now final? Sep 29 17:52:57 hhf423: sry, i don't know Sep 29 17:53:01 i think broadcom wasn't even considered for gta02 Sep 29 17:53:13 do they even have a compatible module? Sep 29 17:53:38 oooh, cool! Sep 29 17:54:03 the latest qtopia now had a big keypad for typing in the pin. the small one was a bit annoying Sep 29 17:54:23 If the decision isn't final, it's only a corporate lawyer thing. The technical decision to NOT use Broadcom was made long ago -- the decision on what to use instead was a lot harder, but there was concern about the closed-source Broadcom chip before the first hardware came off the line. Sep 29 17:54:51 hhf423: the problem with qtopia is the lack of an xserver Sep 29 17:55:04 gtk is useless there. Sep 29 17:56:51 * mwester puts a 20USD bet down that the GTA01 will *NEVER* have an official Broadcom gllin driver. Sep 29 17:57:12 i'll take that bet Sep 29 17:58:16 is my impression or the kinetic scrolling is impairing thumb clicks? Sep 29 17:58:55 hmm, i'd not be very happy if I could not use GPS in my Neo. Sep 29 17:59:42 Shoragan: You're on. When I get a gllin binary that works on the 2007.2 release, I'll send paypal you -- maybe the team that actually got Broadcom to deliver can enjoy a few beers. Sep 29 18:00:32 ok :) Sep 29 18:11:17 and when does mwester get paid if it never materializes? Sep 29 18:11:56 * DukeOfURL wondering if FIC would consider retrofitting GTA01s with working GPS... Sep 29 18:13:51 <|R> what happened? broadcom backed away from realesing a driver ? Sep 29 18:13:59 possibly another use for the debug connector? Sep 29 18:15:00 * hhf423 configuraes gprs on qtopia Sep 29 18:16:24 |R: Nothing has happened. I'm just putting forth a strong opinion, based on my experiences in the past, that given the volume of GPS chips involved (engineering sample quantities for Broadcom-size companies), and the corporate culture of Broadcom, that they will drag their feet and never actually release a working driver. Sep 29 18:16:58 * ckuethe puts $20 on broadcom not releasing Sep 29 18:17:02 mwester well.. broadcom is much more helpful than gl was before as far as i can see Sep 29 18:17:23 and we have a eabi binary now. just its crashing still Sep 29 18:17:29 so that needs some further work. Sep 29 18:17:57 <|R> mwester : ok, i didn't follow everything, but i thougth pieces were chosen based on the availability of FOSS drivers... so we got a promess and now they're dragging their feets? Sep 29 18:18:04 * ckuethe doesn't trust broadcom Sep 29 18:18:10 which will not happen as long as mickey is in portugal Sep 29 18:18:27 Consider: What's in it for them? FIC will not be purchasing any more of them. The contract was probably with GL, not Broadcom, so the Broadcom lawyers have an excuse to drag their feet. Compounded by the fact that there are few affected consumers, and really, folks, none of us in this forum are in a position to give Broadcom any bad press. Sep 29 18:18:30 when i heard they bought GL, i got this sinking feeling that we'd never get working GPS Sep 29 18:18:52 mwester the contract is and will be standing. don't spread fud please Sep 29 18:19:10 <|R> for the bad press part... it can be worked out Sep 29 18:19:15 mwester it also involes access to the agps data updates via ip Sep 29 18:19:18 <|R> but shouldn't unless we have to ;) Sep 29 18:19:21 Roh: you and I both know that contracts are for lawyers, and don't make any difference in the real world. Sep 29 18:19:49 <|R> considering the momentum openMoko has, and digg / /. :P Sep 29 18:20:06 mwester ive seen the binary myself and tested the ip access to the agps data, so i'm quite confident that we can and will make a ipkg of gllin in time Sep 29 18:20:12 The lawyers will find something wrong with the contract, if it comes to that. But even so, who would ever pay for the litigation? Sep 29 18:20:47 I'm just telling it like it is, at least from a US-coporate legal point-of-view... Sep 29 18:20:54 corporate, even. Sep 29 18:21:32 mwester well.. the planet is not only the us *eg* Sep 29 18:22:07 In the end, it'll come down to charity if Broadcom delivers - and I find that betting on corporate charity is more likely to lose than not. :) Sep 29 18:22:25 mwester well.. please stop talking bullshit. Sep 29 18:22:33 they delivered, its just not done. Sep 29 18:23:04 They delivered something? You mean the old gllin that we aren't allowed to have? Sep 29 18:23:24 mwester we are allowed to have it. we have solid and working contracts. Sep 29 18:23:35 the only thing we could not do before was distribute it. Sep 29 18:23:52 which was blocked mainly due to the aquireing of gl by brmc Sep 29 18:23:59 That's not delivering anything. No delivery matters unless it can make it to the consumer. I'd love to be able to tell *my* customers that they should be happy, because even though *I* havent' delivered to them, my supplier delivered to me! Sep 29 18:24:15 mwester there are no consumers in this project at all. Sep 29 18:24:19 not yet. Sep 29 18:24:23 We've been over that. Sep 29 18:24:48 mwester well. and you know our standpoint. if you think you are a consumer, please refrain from buying now. Sep 29 18:25:08 Many people paid $ for the devices, with the expectation that they could perform useful development activities with the hardware. I think you need to revisit your understanding of supply-chain economics. Sep 29 18:25:26 Like it or not, roh, I AM YOUR CUSTOMER!! Sorry dude! Sep 29 18:26:14 that's true. When you pay something, you are a customer, this is the definition Sep 29 18:26:14 mwester and you need to understand that giving phones outside the company at all has been done not because theyre done products to sell, but to involve the community in development. and we clearly stated that over and over. Sep 29 18:26:39 It's not a matter of "done" or not. It's a matter of whether certain things will ever be working at all. Sep 29 18:27:07 mwester if we would have done differently you would not have anything in your hand at all and still be nagging us why we did not release yet... Sep 29 18:27:11 The problem of the GPS was at least suspected at the time. We can save the discussion on the GSM modem for another time. Sep 29 18:27:23 roh, but the phone have not been "given", they have been "sold" Sep 29 18:27:33 roh: no, if my expectations were set correctly, I'd be happy with what I had. Sep 29 18:27:39 Expectations were that the GPS would work. Sep 29 18:27:50 mwester well. as you know the oabi gllin works, so talking about 'working at all' and 'ever' ist just bullshit. you know it works, and you know it will be delivered. Sep 29 18:28:02 roh: then send me the oabi gllin. I'll be happy with that. Sep 29 18:28:13 well, expectations were the GPS would work to the extend that a developer could work with it. And thats not there. Sep 29 18:28:34 And I *don't* know that it will be delivered. I've outlined what I think is happening with the lawyers, and with why Broadcom isnt' fixing the problems. Sep 29 18:28:52 mwester i cannot do that . we never wanted to release that specific binary, so there is no license-text there to deliver it with Sep 29 18:28:54 roh, oh, it will be delivered? when? Sep 29 18:29:21 hhf423 i cannot give you the date. when micha and broadcom have worked out why the eabi build crashes? Sep 29 18:29:26 roh: the stop talking bullshit about gllin being delivered. It isn't. You can't deliver the one you have, so therefore that one cannot be called "delivered". Sep 29 18:29:32 hmm, does someone know how to make the qtopia activate GPRS connection? Sep 29 18:29:36 hhf423 eh.. mickey Sep 29 18:29:57 hhf423: I never got it to connect Sep 29 18:30:31 roh: "it's crashing" isn't much of an excuse. gsmd was released, and it crashes nearly every connect. Sep 29 18:30:34 roh, oh, so there IS a Eabi gllin, it just does not work very well yet? Sep 29 18:30:43 Well, I've laid out my arguments. Nobody has refuted any of my logic, just provided arguements that "it will happen anyway" and arguments that "it has already happened because we have an old unreleasable gllin". Sep 29 18:30:53 .oO(and then there are really people who do not get why we put work in changing the gps *sigh*) Sep 29 18:31:19 hhf423 there IS. and it IS segfaulting very soon after start, so of no use yet. Sep 29 18:31:32 well, thats news to me Sep 29 18:31:38 roh: I understand why OM and fic changed the gps chip. It's obviously the right answer, frustrating as it is to those of us wanting to develop against the gps. Sep 29 18:32:03 and, actually, I find this good to hear. Because my latest status was that there is nothing at all from a eabi perspective Sep 29 18:32:19 sagacis when you want to develop for gps, ignore the hardware we have completely. just use gpsd Sep 29 18:33:00 sagacis totally regardless if its gllin, or whatever, the right point to get gps data is gpsd, and nothing else Sep 29 18:33:43 hhf423 well. i think that information was already on the mailing lists. as well as quite some mails from ken yale at broadcom explaining technical details Sep 29 18:35:34 jap.. sone on community@ Sep 29 18:35:49 roh: I have not seen that. I just updated the wiki Sep 29 18:37:05 hmm, if qtopia would do GPRS, this would actually be usable Sep 29 18:37:51 5 mails from ken on community and 2 mails on openmoko-devel Sep 29 18:38:03 hhf423: qtopia it's already very usable. Sep 29 18:38:08 s/it// Sep 29 18:38:08 bedboi meant: hhf423: qtopia 's already very usable. Sep 29 18:38:11 hhf423: It's getting better for sure, but still has a few limitations. No web support, for example. Sep 29 18:38:37 well.. read these mails if you are interrested in facts about gps progress. Sep 29 18:38:41 the problem is power management Sep 29 18:38:55 roh: I've read them. Sep 29 18:38:57 need to go.. am invited by some 20yr ofl girls Sep 29 18:39:41 bedboi: can you do GPRS Sep 29 18:39:58 sagacis: yes, no browser yet, that what you mean? Sep 29 18:40:12 ofl girls? Sep 29 18:40:18 whats that? Sep 29 18:40:56 hhf423 old.. sorry.. gotta go ... bbl Sep 29 18:41:16 roh, wer auf zu viele hasen zielt, schiesst daneben :-) Sep 29 18:41:23 have fun Sep 29 18:42:21 roh: 20 yrs old are good just for sex in my opinion Sep 29 18:42:34 too young to have a discussion. Sep 29 18:44:31 are there screenshots/mockups of the new interface? I just saw the old announcement of the UI redesign Sep 29 18:44:55 peepsalot: ? Sep 29 18:45:08 hhf423: I don't know of a QT browser available for qtopia at this point. Sep 29 18:45:38 bedboi: that really depends on how old you would be yourself. I forgot how old roh is :-) Sep 29 18:46:03 hhf423: yep, i'm 28, 20 is definitely too young, even as i look 18 Sep 29 18:46:24 http://c3lab.poliba.it/index.php/LDC:Home Sep 29 18:46:27 bedboi, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-August/000018.html there is one mockup at the Style Guideline link, just wondering if there were others Sep 29 18:46:38 <|R> haha Sep 29 18:46:42 when I was 20, I found it very interesting to talk to girls my age :-) Sep 29 18:47:19 Gotta go. Later! Sep 29 18:47:19 peepsalot, just look at any current screenshots Sep 29 18:47:29 Shoragan, where Sep 29 18:47:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[GPS]] Sep 29 18:47:36 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ Sep 29 18:47:43 look for model: GTA01 Sep 29 18:47:54 so how close are we to being able to buy a phone that can place and receive calls? Sep 29 18:47:59 =) Sep 29 18:48:27 wasabi: buy the neo and flash qtopia that calls work Sep 29 18:48:55 s/that/then Sep 29 18:49:01 that's not very cool Sep 29 18:49:13 why not? Sep 29 18:49:37 <|R> works for 3h than the battery dies right? :) Sep 29 18:49:39 i'd at least want my phone to run the software this # is working on heh Sep 29 18:49:52 wasabi: you can also follow my instructions in "phase 1 software testing" and the calls work most of the time using openmoko Sep 29 18:50:22 but the fact is that gsmd at the moment is crap Sep 29 18:50:32 hurmph Sep 29 18:50:55 and as far as I know (I am a week out of sync) noone at OpenMoko is working on gsmd Sep 29 18:51:24 cleary there are no changes to the gsmd code at the moment and for the past month or so Sep 29 18:51:58 hhf423: are you serious? Sep 29 18:52:21 after the UI splash screen, neo displays "D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up..." Sep 29 18:52:25 bedboi: about 20 year old girls? Sep 29 18:52:27 has anyone else seen this? Sep 29 18:52:39 bedboi: no about gsmd. Sep 29 18:52:41 DukeOfURL: no. which kernel? Sep 29 18:52:48 lol Sep 29 18:53:01 Is tihs project going to produce a working product that can compete with the likes of my simple moto or not? I mean, I'd gladly pay a premium for it. Just need it to "work". :) Sep 29 18:53:08 hhf423: no, i was talking about gsmd. Sep 29 18:53:14 bedboi: just look into the change log for gsmd and libgsmd, its easy to see that there is nothing going on at the moemnt Sep 29 18:53:31 oh, that's not good. Sep 29 18:53:49 I just did a remake-package-linux-openmoko, but the problem is in rootfs Sep 29 18:53:53 wasabi: it sure is. thats not the question, the question is how long it will take :-) Sep 29 18:54:20 the length of time it takes matters significantly. If it's going to be 2 years, it'll be obsolete before it's released. Sep 29 18:54:59 <|R> It'll always be behind in some aspects but probably way ahead in others... Sep 29 18:55:02 <|R> that's how FOSS works :) Sep 29 18:55:06 hhf423: The problem is in rootfs Sep 29 18:55:33 I'm just curious where the funding will come from? Is it a sane business plan? Should I even bother considering buying one? Sep 29 18:56:14 wasabi: I suppose they're planning on funding it with a part of the profits they get from selling the phones :) Sep 29 18:56:21 hhf423: The message says it can't read achine-id Sep 29 18:56:43 DukeOfURL: never heard of that :-) Sep 29 18:57:01 So when can I reasonably expect to have them my money? haha Sep 29 18:57:06 s/have/hand/ Sep 29 18:57:07 <|R> wasabi : depends of your goals / philosophy i guess Sep 29 18:57:07 wasabi meant: So when can I reasonably expect to hand them my money? haha Sep 29 18:57:17 Oh that's a cool bot. Sep 29 18:57:35 other than that, some other companies interested in using OM might pay them (or whoever they want) to work on some things. Sep 29 19:00:28 the situation isn't that much different from desktop linux things I think. Sep 29 19:00:33 Not really. Sep 29 19:00:39 I use desktop linux at work. And as my main desktop. Sep 29 19:00:50 At home. And 4 of my employees do. And they can get work done. :0 Sep 29 19:00:55 A phone that can't make calls is a bit different. =/ Sep 29 19:01:19 <|R> I'm sure that within a year we'll have GSM and SIP working :) Sep 29 19:01:48 It's like... I don't care that the interface is in Cairo or GDK or anti aliased at this point. Need phone calls. :) Sep 29 19:02:36 wasabi: a month ago I would have said "give them a month", but then actually noone started to work on gsmd Sep 29 19:02:43 <|R> We need to get Nokia on board and switch their N800 team to OpenMoko ;) Sep 29 19:02:50 anyway, the primary reason I'm interested in neo1973 is that it's a pretty nice PDA with GPS (which doesn't work yet either I heard) Sep 29 19:03:14 I'm interested in it because it's open. That's my only reason to desire to buy it. Sep 29 19:03:18 |R: Nokia should be releasing successor to N800 with GPS soonish I think. Sep 29 19:03:25 Obviously existing devices, which are cheaper work today. Sep 29 19:03:26 |R: this is not polite Sep 29 19:03:27 no phone though Sep 29 19:03:40 so at the moment I think the answer is: we do not know. It seems to be likely, though, that Harald from OM will start to work on gsmd once GTA02 is ready. Thats maybe around end of october. Sep 29 19:03:41 <|R> Jiten : yep so i heard... but they're semi closed too Sep 29 19:03:48 But it has to do the minimal for me to keep it in my pocket and leave the motorola at home. Sep 29 19:03:49 <|R> bedboi : oh? :P Sep 29 19:04:07 <|R> We need to get Nokia on board and switch their N800 team to OpenMoko ;) Sep 29 19:04:21 <|R> how is that impolite? i must have missed something ;) Sep 29 19:04:26 <|R> and for who? Sep 29 19:04:46 oh, i mis-read it Sep 29 19:04:49 sorry Sep 29 19:04:56 <|R> haha :) Sep 29 19:05:00 <|R> noprob :) Sep 29 19:05:05 Heh. I had a n770. Pretty disappointing device for me. Sep 29 19:05:18 wasabi: n800 is a very usable device Sep 29 19:05:20 I mean, it was COOL... ut I found I never actually used it. EVentually just left it at home. Sep 29 19:05:23 really usable Sep 29 19:05:27 <|R> I'm getting an N800 though i really hope to get a GTA02 with basic phone calls and upgrade to that :) Sep 29 19:05:31 Yeah, for what... web browsing? Sep 29 19:05:51 <|R> pocket SSH ! Sep 29 19:05:52 hmm, web browsing is quite annoying Sep 29 19:06:00 <|R> (killer app for me :P) Sep 29 19:06:03 wasabi: opera is slow and huge. Sep 29 19:06:06 <|R> i can do _anything_ over a shell ahha :) Sep 29 19:06:09 It was COOL. Just wasn't worth carrying it around. Sep 29 19:06:11 <|R> (ok no, not that ;) Sep 29 19:06:29 wasabi: nokia guys are multimedia oriented. Sep 29 19:06:41 The motorola phone I have is "good enough" for web browsing.... I can view pages just fine. gmail works. Sep 29 19:06:44 btw the platform and the hardware are working Sep 29 19:06:49 gmail on my dinky cell phone works better than the email client on the n800 he Sep 29 19:07:15 hmm, I find my N770 quite usable and good to have in some circumstances, like on vacation of looking something up quickly, when in the bedroom and no laptop in sight Sep 29 19:07:21 <|R> gotta run... cheers :) Sep 29 19:07:37 hhf423: Yeah, I was using maemo mapper for it. That was AWESOME Sep 29 19:07:49 But then my newer cell phone got that. IT sucks, but it works. Sep 29 19:08:13 oooh, "Our best case analysis of the schedule indicates that GTA02 will be ready for shipment to end users in early to mid December." Sep 29 19:08:21 maemo mapper? what was that? Sep 29 19:08:28 GPS program for the n800/770 Sep 29 19:08:37 It downloads google map tiles and uses a GPS. Sep 29 19:08:46 It's not web based, so it's really snappy. Sep 29 19:08:56 you just need a separate bluetooth GPS device with it I guess. Sep 29 19:08:59 Yeah. Sep 29 19:09:09 Again, obnoxious. My 200$ moto phone doesn't need that. Sep 29 19:09:25 PP|Spydon: OpenMoko: "Our best case analysis of the schedule indicates that GTA02 will be ready for shipment to end users in early to mid December." Sep 29 19:10:04 wasabi: thanks, sounds interesting. I'll look into that Sep 29 19:10:17 I was considering getting N800, GPS device and a 3G phone combination but ... having 3 devices, each on a different battery doesn't sound too attractive. Sep 29 19:10:36 Jiten: my point exactly Sep 29 19:10:38 2 would be barely acceptable. Sep 29 19:10:40 I'm so excited about these devices. But they have to be able to replace my existing devices or I can't carry them with me. Sep 29 19:11:47 the gta02 will du Sep 29 19:11:48 do Sep 29 19:13:16 when it says "end users", does that mean the software is complete by then too? Sep 29 19:13:35 yes Sep 29 19:13:39 Vegar: no Sep 29 19:14:01 Vegar: depends on which software you mean :) Sep 29 19:14:16 Vegar: there was a subsequent message that said what will be shipped is phase 2, for the wider developer community Sep 29 19:14:46 so, december is not mass market yet? Sep 29 19:14:49 but, clearly, the people who were hired to do communication need to improve on selecting their words Sep 29 19:15:16 right, ok Sep 29 19:15:27 Jiten: its the hardware that is ready for mass market. Its unlikely that the software will have "mass market" quality Sep 29 19:15:30 "Phase 2" (GTA02, "Mass Market") Sep 29 19:15:33 well, as long as the hardware works.. Sep 29 19:15:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 Sep 29 19:16:09 i think they mean useable Sep 29 19:20:55 hhf423: is there any new qtopia image ? Sep 29 19:21:28 bedboi: the newest is here: Sep 29 19:21:30 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Sep 29 19:21:53 trolltech releases sources and ScaredyCat builds them Sep 29 19:22:12 and puts the images there Sep 29 19:23:49 thanks good to know Sep 29 19:26:31 does GTA02 only have half the RAM of GTA01? Sep 29 19:26:45 no Sep 29 19:26:54 that'd make no sense :) Sep 29 19:29:01 hhf423: which kernel image should i use? Sep 29 19:29:18 what's the date on the latest kernel? Sep 29 19:30:31 http://wwitv.com/t1/b3386.m3u Sep 29 19:30:35 DukeOfURL: I have the them D-Bus error Sep 29 19:30:35 don't miss the last scene Sep 29 19:30:38 bedboi: uhh, I think the 21.6 unfortunately Sep 29 19:30:43 lemme check Sep 29 19:31:03 fgau: right after the UI splash screen? Sep 29 19:31:22 bedboi: no 22.5 workd Sep 29 19:31:31 yes, i have pushed i fresh build Sep 29 19:35:55 DukeOfURL: i have used Mokomakefile without errors in the build Sep 29 19:37:31 bedboi: yes, the latest uImage from ScaredyCat works, so .22.5....r2 Sep 29 19:37:39 fgau: I'm also unable to build from scratch because of multiple OE errors Sep 29 19:38:09 I wish those people would compile without errors before the check it in. Sep 29 19:38:31 * DukeOfURL ducks Sep 29 19:45:12 good night Sep 29 20:17:13 btw qtopia doesn't ship a terminal Sep 29 20:17:55 nope. Sep 29 20:18:34 but there's an unworking but compiling one in the opieII sources Sep 29 20:18:58 someday I wil have more than 24 hours in a day Sep 29 20:19:19 there was mention of other devices being announced in september, any more info on that? Sep 29 20:47:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Hhf423]] [[User:Micha]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Torch]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Dual_SIM]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Different_speaker_orientation]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] and other changes Sep 29 22:22:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Powerbutton.jpg Sep 29 22:22:28 what's that blue thing? Sep 29 22:22:31 is it a blue neo? Sep 29 22:24:57 looks like a blue one... Sep 29 22:46:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Aux_Button]] [[Neo1973_AUX_Button]] [[Talk:Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Neo1973_Power_Button]] Sep 29 22:49:36 wow.. the new build works really good.. Sep 29 22:50:12 had some minor problem with dbus though - it forgot to build /usr/bin/dbus-daemon (installing an official ipkg solved that ;) Sep 29 22:50:13 riot: are all the patches for gsmd included? Sep 29 22:50:50 emdete: i don't know. I ran the make update image about 3/4 hour ago, so, if they were in upstream already, i suppose so. Sep 29 22:50:59 riot: havn't enough internet here to check... :/ Sep 29 22:51:20 emdete: the gsmd here is version 2957M Sep 29 22:51:37 that's one more than mine ;) Sep 29 22:51:38 where is all the contact-data stored, btw? Sep 29 22:51:52 eds Sep 29 22:52:06 they use evolution's solution Sep 29 22:53:39 i want to slowly switch from my old s55 to the neo, but not without all my phone-numbers ;) Sep 29 22:54:17 aaw.. evolution brings all this gnome crap onto my workstation :( Sep 29 22:54:48 gotta evolve my own PIM Sep 29 22:55:32 wow.. so many deps for evolution Sep 29 22:56:07 7856 kb for evolution - 156 Megs dependencies Sep 29 22:57:31 riot: yes, i don't like evolution also. but they just use the database part - maybe that is less Sep 29 22:58:15 emdete: sure, i'm talking about evolution itself :) somehow you gotta sync and stuffs. Sep 29 22:58:25 and data entry on the phone itself is... hmm.. lets not talk about it Sep 29 22:58:29 It's much, much, much less. Sep 29 22:58:43 as far as i understand u may use syncml or something Sep 29 22:59:07 Aria: hmhmm.. evolution-common has 46 megs, rest is gnome stuff.. (incl. e.g. dbus, gnomevfs2 etc. pp.) Sep 29 23:00:15 yet, i'll probably extend my jabber-centric pim to include phone-support ;) vcards are just so simple to use. Sep 29 23:00:45 shure... what messanger do u use? Sep 29 23:01:29 emdete: as my own (psy) is not yet usable, i prefer psi... its the most usable jabber-client, imho. Sep 29 23:01:41 but psy will probably kill everything else :) Sep 29 23:01:54 ever looked at gajim? Sep 29 23:01:56 (it will run perfectly on openmoko ;) Sep 29 23:02:02 emdete: yes. tried out almost everything. Sep 29 23:02:10 psy uses python? Sep 29 23:02:11 emdete: gajim is really one of the better Sep 29 23:02:16 emdete: exactly ;D Sep 29 23:02:42 which frontend does psy use? gtk? Sep 29 23:03:12 some of the goals for psy are: gps support, 4 different user interfaces (gtk, irssi-like-readline, urwid (brings http, too!), qt), calendar and notifications, ... Sep 29 23:04:57 right now, its not usable, though, as i'm still coding the core (xmpp et al).. Sep 29 23:04:58 which xmpp backend do u use? home-grown? Sep 29 23:05:19 i'm still evaluating. First try was twisted-words.. but i don't know if i'll keep that up Sep 29 23:05:32 twisted? oh.... Sep 29 23:06:36 emdete: i like the concepts behind twisted, yet they are a bit hard to use and in my way, sometimes. Sep 29 23:06:37 the backend below gajim looks pretty stable Sep 29 23:07:21 riot: yes, that was my problem with twisted also Sep 29 23:07:41 hmm. gajim uses some homegrown things, it seems. I'm installing it again Sep 29 23:08:34 no, they used a lib which was given up and now they develop further Sep 29 23:09:09 emdete: aah, that explains why theres nothing in the deps Sep 29 23:09:47 don't remember the name - found it also on the net... it's from a russian programer as far as i remember Sep 29 23:10:46 hmhmm.. gajim.. just installed it.. has problems with my ssl, gnupg.. bad bad bad.. esp. since both are so easily integrateable into python apps... Sep 29 23:11:14 works fine for me Sep 29 23:11:15 ...both Sep 29 23:11:24 did u use stable or head? Sep 29 23:11:38 ...and: the gnupg module sucks.... Sep 29 23:11:53 0.11.2-1 Sep 29 23:11:59 (debian unstable) Sep 29 23:12:52 from "deb ftp://ftp.gajim.org/debian unstable main" you get a gajim-svn which is head Sep 29 23:12:56 AAH.. Popup-Hell!! Sep 29 23:13:30 switch it off. no prob. :) Sep 29 23:13:46 default should be off, imho Sep 29 23:13:53 :) agree Sep 29 23:14:11 i don't want to feel like i'm using windows on my machines... don't want Sep 29 23:15:00 psy will mostly employ a tabbed ui, btw.. tabbed account/userlist + tabbed but disconnectable chat-windows.. I even hope this will be consistent on all UIs except readline Sep 29 23:15:06 people are different... i use gajim all the time but most switches are not on the default value for me ;) Sep 29 23:15:14 yet, irssi is "tabbed" somehow, too :) Sep 29 23:15:58 :D gajim is tabbed too Sep 29 23:17:36 the account-manager has some funny bugs.. Sep 29 23:17:45 riot: much more interesting would be a ui that fits to neo's missing buttons.... Sep 29 23:18:14 emdete: yep, that, i should plan.. Sep 29 23:18:22 how do you think to input chars? Sep 29 23:18:51 hmm. matchbox keyboard.. what else? Sep 29 23:19:20 keyboard on screen requires pen Sep 29 23:19:35 pen sucks Sep 29 23:19:36 no, i'm not gonna invent ANOTHER input method... Sep 29 23:19:50 riot: why not? Everyone else is doing it. Sep 29 23:19:55 SpeedEvil: ok, you got me. Sep 29 23:19:57 have u used the keyboard? it's uncool Sep 29 23:20:10 emdete: now, i'm used to typing on onscreen keyboards. Sep 29 23:20:19 yes, its lame, but better than nothing. Sep 29 23:20:22 riot: what problems with ssl and gnupg do you have in gajim? Sep 29 23:20:43 viq: ssl works. gnupg: It claims "OpenPGP support does not work on this computer" Sep 29 23:21:09 riot: works well enough for me Sep 29 23:21:16 viq: i'm not very eager to get them to work perfectly.. i'm just having a look at gajims internals. Sep 29 23:21:25 mhmm Sep 29 23:21:29 riot: did u install the python module? Sep 29 23:21:42 viq: it didn't bother to accept my settings regarding popups.. i'm NOT gonna use gajim for everyday biz. Sep 29 23:21:56 popups? Sep 29 23:22:03 emdete: nope. Might be a reason ;) Sep 29 23:22:14 viq: yes, those nasty popup-boxes you know from windows *g* Sep 29 23:22:36 riot: I am not sure what you mean. Sep 29 23:22:37 i switched them off, added another account and, *WHAM* there i have some more of em Sep 29 23:22:53 viq: turn gajim to defaults, you will see them.. Sep 29 23:23:05 riot: i had an issue with LANG in the env set to something where the tool does not output the expected stuff and the python module gives an error... as i said that module is very buggy Sep 29 23:23:18 riot: can't you just explain? ;) Sep 29 23:25:34 viq: no.. not really.. you don't really want them either.. Sep 29 23:25:57 eh, whatever. time to go to sleep. *poof* Sep 29 23:25:58 so, lets just forget about popups/bubble-windows.. i don't even know how to call them.. ABOLISH..AVOID..get RID of them Sep 29 23:26:03 gdn8 ;) Sep 29 23:45:07 heh Sep 29 23:55:49 does somebody experience the same bug? http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3081 Sep 29 23:56:00 (procps not compiling) Sep 30 00:47:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:R-R]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Montreal]] Sep 30 01:29:14 the more source of existant c applications for openmoko i read, the more tedious i find the development-process with c.. Sep 30 01:29:19 so much boilerplate... Sep 30 01:43:49 does anyone recall the bug # that caused folks to remove the console=ttySAC0,115200 from the bootargs environment variable in uboot I can't seem to find it in bugzilla Sep 30 01:45:27 you could try grepping logs here. Sep 30 01:45:49 For console=ttySAC Sep 30 01:47:17 thx I must be getting a bit slow Sep 30 01:47:24 or tired Sep 30 01:52:01 technil: 788 Sep 30 01:52:10 technil: (yeah, I have that number _memorized_ :P ) Sep 30 01:56:43 I just finished grepping, and found your comment :) Sep 30 01:56:52 Not especially productive. Sep 30 02:04:41 sorry SpeedEvil cesarb remembered it was #788 Sep 30 02:04:57 * sagacis thought he'd add SIM contacts to the contacts list in openmoko-contacts2. Sep 30 02:05:17 that is a lot of grepping... Sep 30 02:05:35 Then, I read the code and decided it was too hard to figure out the hito and hildon codebase. Sep 30 02:05:35 so when is GTA02 out anyway? Sep 30 02:05:57 lol Sep 30 02:06:02 look at the topic Sep 30 02:06:10 (i know i wanted to ask this question forever) Sep 30 02:06:15 on a more serious note... Sep 30 02:06:18 seemant: check out the Topic :) Sep 30 02:06:46 can anyone tell me if working with openmoko gives me direct access to the SIM card ? Sep 30 02:06:54 Of course. Sep 30 02:06:56 ah december Sep 30 02:06:58 thanks technil Sep 30 02:07:00 You just have to write in c-code Sep 30 02:07:12 and i can send APDUs to the card that way ? Sep 30 02:07:45 thanks, sagacis, would you happen to know where i should start my readings ? Sep 30 02:08:22 costan: I've been reading up on that just this evening. Look at libgsmd. Sep 30 02:08:45 thanks Sep 30 02:09:26 There are exported functions for pdu and such. Putting code to do stuff isn't easy, but at this point, I"m considering making a standalone app to see how it all works. Sep 30 02:10:00 I don't know if there are others looking at PDU. I'd hate to spend time duplicating effort, tho. Sep 30 02:10:26 i'll be looking at it :) Sep 30 02:10:33 heh. That's two of us. Sep 30 02:10:46 Do you have specific goals? Sep 30 02:10:59 part of my master's thesis will be doing a demo on a phone Sep 30 02:11:29 Cool. Where do you go to school? Sep 30 02:11:33 i have some software that allows trusted executing (i.e. money exchange) on SIM cards Sep 30 02:11:40 well, on JavaCards Sep 30 02:11:48 haven't extended to simcards yet, but working on it Sep 30 02:11:48 MIT Sep 30 02:11:53 Wow. Neat stuff. Oh. Can you run a javacard in Sep 30 02:11:59 nevermind... Sep 30 02:12:09 i hope so because i said i'll do it :) Sep 30 02:12:16 java cards can serve as SIM cards Sep 30 02:12:28 Cool. Never met a java card. Sep 30 02:12:39 so ideally yes... probably with some cooperation from the mobile service supplier Sep 30 02:13:16 so i figured openmoko would be the best platform since it's open Sep 30 02:13:22 so i can mess with everything i want Sep 30 02:13:22 I'm not real keen on the GSM providers in the US at the moment, but what choice do we have. Can you encript info through PDU and decrypt at trusted end? Sep 30 02:13:33 except i can't get company people to talk to me Sep 30 02:13:36 yep Sep 30 02:13:37 pretty much Sep 30 02:13:38 Assuming ATT doesn't get wind of what we're doing and try to block us.... Sep 30 02:13:47 stupid GIOChannels you can't set a receive timeout Sep 30 02:14:22 GIOChannels? Sep 30 02:14:58 but re: AT&T i think the iphone's giving them enough headaches right now Sep 30 02:15:05 The wiki redirects SMS to GSM. I want to unredirect to allow us to put notes there instead of in the Manually Using page. Anybody care? Sep 30 02:15:08 they don't have time for small potatoes Sep 30 02:15:33 I hope so. I've had to call them numerous times about phone-related account stuff. I hope I can remain under the radar. Sep 30 02:24:57 it'sreally incredible that g_io_channel_read_chars does not specify a timeout Sep 30 02:34:09 costan: I've started pounding out the wiki's SMS page (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMS). Please add real information. I was only introduced to PDU mode this morning (reading the code), so I don't have much there. Sep 30 02:36:57 oh Sep 30 02:36:59 :) Sep 30 02:37:03 you're talking SMS PDUs Sep 30 02:37:13 i'm worried about APDUs Sep 30 02:37:36 sagacis: you successfully calling with an ATT sim? Sep 30 02:37:41 those are commands that are sent directly to the SIM smart-card Sep 30 02:37:46 technil: Yes, but 2G. Sep 30 02:37:55 it's ISO 7816 :-/ Sep 30 02:38:10 costan, Sure. Perhaps we need a different page for that. Sep 30 02:38:28 sagacis, technil: oh cool, that's another thing i wasn't sure about Sep 30 02:38:37 so the phone is reasonably solid, i take it ? Sep 30 02:39:04 as in, you can use it day-to-day Sep 30 02:39:12 how's the battery w/ ATT ? Sep 30 02:39:21 how much does it last under normal usage (mostly idle) ? Sep 30 02:39:31 costan: Nope. Not at all. The battery doesn't last long, either (3-5 hrs) Sep 30 02:39:46 oj Sep 30 02:39:47 completely idle, without allowing suspend mode Sep 30 02:39:50 *oh Sep 30 02:40:01 okay, at least it's not 5 minutes or something :D Sep 30 02:40:08 The gsm stack is crashing a lot, but mwester and cesarb claim to have that partially fixed. Sep 30 02:40:11 heh Sep 30 02:40:42 Unfortunately, you can't charge the phone without plugging it into a computer that recognizes the phone on the usb, either. Sep 30 02:40:43 costan: It doesn't work well at all (yet), it works with very few (almost none) AT&T sims and there is no news on when/how that will be resolved (it cannot be fixed in software), the battery only lasts a few hours (power-managment is not yet working). It's a work in progress. :) Sep 30 02:41:09 I bought an ATT 2G sim card on ebay to use the phone. Sep 30 02:41:21 That doesn't help your advanced usage, I suppose Sep 30 02:41:24 lol so it needs a 2g card Sep 30 02:41:40 It might work better on TMobile, but I don't know anybody who has tried. Sep 30 02:41:44 oh Sep 30 02:41:45 oka Sep 30 02:41:47 That's only part of the problem, the other part is that the phone won't talk on the 800MHz frequencies, which are often used by AT&T. Sep 30 02:41:47 *okay Sep 30 02:41:51 i have t-mo Sep 30 02:42:07 i forget... it's 900/1800/1900 right ? Sep 30 02:42:10 I have T-Mobile as well -works fine. Sep 30 02:42:20 mwester : just anwered my 800 Mhz question Sep 30 02:42:24 costan: It's quad, but not licensed for 800, apparently. Sep 30 02:42:47 Works fine here too, on TMO Sep 30 02:42:50 We don't know the story there -- it didn't get FCC approval for the 800 band. Sep 30 02:42:53 mwester: Could the differences in our experiences be TMobile v. ATT? Sep 30 02:42:56 my UNICEL SIm is a no go because they use 800/850 Sep 30 02:43:08 or at lest i think so.. Sep 30 02:43:26 We don't know if it was planned to be skipped for the 01 due to time or $, or if it just didn't work and they approved what they could. I suspect the latter. Sep 30 02:43:50 sagacis: I hadn't thought of it, but that is a reasonable explanation, I guess. Sep 30 02:44:04 The 800 MHz is a more restricted band, too. the FCC requires different testing practices for licensing. Sep 30 02:44:34 'cause it's too close to other stuff ? Sep 30 02:44:35 :) Sep 30 02:44:37 mwester: I'm not seeing any difference with your patch. :( I've moved on to trying to get my contacts off the sim card. Sep 30 02:44:49 I think the 800 band is shared with analog phone, right? Sep 30 02:44:51 * technil wrote them a nice letter on the subject 2 weeks ago Sep 30 02:44:58 sagacis: which patch? Sep 30 02:45:01 costan: I guess. I don't really know. I just spout half-baked rumors like they're true. ;-) Sep 30 02:45:25 mwester: The gsmd patch Sep 30 02:45:56 If you mean the kernel patch, that's good. There's a workaround in /etc/init.d/gsmd that prevents the bug from being triggered. Sep 30 02:46:05 Ah. Good. Sep 30 02:46:12 Yes, the kernel patch. Sep 30 02:46:16 ahh #788 Sep 30 02:46:23 So as long as you only use /etc/init.d/gsmd to start/stop the daemon, you'll be fine without the kernel patch. Sep 30 02:46:34 technil: Yep, that one. Sep 30 02:46:36 Well, I'm not fine anyway.... Sep 30 02:46:52 If your phone doesn't lock up, then the workaround/patch is working. Sep 30 02:47:07 It doesn't make gsmd work, it just stops it from locking up your phone. Sep 30 02:47:10 Oh, that one. Right. But I"m only as good as three weeks ago. Sep 30 02:47:21 So, no progress on starting the gsmd reliably? Sep 30 02:47:27 I fail to start most of the time. Sep 30 02:47:28 Huh? Sep 30 02:47:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SMS]] Sep 30 02:47:43 Gsmd starts all the time now. Sep 30 02:47:54 * mwester notices the "three weeks ago" line... Sep 30 02:48:00 Yeah, you're a bit out of date there!! Sep 30 02:48:01 Not for me. 75% of the time, gsmd doesn't start for me. Sep 30 02:48:06 Nope. Up to date. Sep 30 02:48:20 All the latest/greatest. Sep 30 02:48:27 Pastebin your /etc/init.d/gsmd script, and the /tmp/gsm.log file. Sep 30 02:48:29 I even flashed with the images you posted this week. Sep 30 02:48:30 OK. Sep 30 02:48:46 Let me finish booting. I was unloading my sim card in another phone. Sep 30 02:49:33 sagacis: what's the symptom when it doesn't start? look at /tmp/gsmd.log... does it get an answer from the modem? where does it get stuck? Sep 30 02:49:54 * cesarb should type faster, mwester already asked for the log Sep 30 02:50:25 http://cl1p.net/gsm.log/ Sep 30 02:51:01 sagacis: did you possibly savenv after doing the early workaround (removing console=ttySAC0,115200 ) from bootargs_base in uboot? Sep 30 02:51:31 i had to put that back in Sep 30 02:51:33 technil: I've done it both ways. Sep 30 02:51:39 ok Sep 30 02:51:41 I think it's back in now. I'll have to check. Sep 30 02:51:58 It's possible I didn't save it when I put it back in. Sep 30 02:52:31 'tis a bit scary to do that with my escaping character old uboot Sep 30 02:52:55 I update the kernel patch to work even if you don't have the console defined in the uboot environment, but I havent' attached it to the bug yet. Doesn't seem to be any rush, since I'm told that Harald has to approve that before it goes in, and he's busy on the gta02 until probably end of october I heard. Sep 30 02:53:31 it looks like I booted with the console=ttySAC Sep 30 02:53:40 sagacis: Your gsmd script is fine, you don't need the kernel patch. Your gsm log file says that gsmd started up fine, and established communications with the GSM modem. Sep 30 02:53:47 thanks for the info mwester Sep 30 02:53:54 Yeah, I am running with mwester's kernel patch. I was the one not booting the other day w/o the console in bootargs_base Sep 30 02:54:40 an then an ERROR when AT+CFUN=1 Sep 30 02:55:04 +EXT ERROR: 5, more precisely Sep 30 02:55:17 Yeah, I saw that too. Sep 30 02:55:31 So, I can't succeeed with the COPS Sep 30 02:55:42 succeeeeeed, even Sep 30 02:56:05 * mwester has erected a huge SEP field over everything beyond gsmd talking with the GSM modem. :p Sep 30 02:57:31 * sagacis is the "somebody else" Sep 30 02:57:32 How long can a SEP field last if powered by the neo battery though? Sep 30 02:57:37 lol Sep 30 02:57:39 hehe! Sep 30 02:57:54 Now that would be a killer app. Sep 30 02:57:55 heh Sep 30 02:58:01 Personal SEP field. Sep 30 02:58:37 Seriously though, I think that we first needed a reliable way to start gsmd, now that we have that, we can start figuring out why it won't register on the network, and why it won't switch cell sites very reliably either. Sep 30 02:59:03 Google doesn't come up with anything useful for "EXT ERROR: 5", I'm afraid. Sep 30 02:59:55 mwester: So, you're saying my gsmd is starting, and that's the "success" you were aiming at. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 30 02:59:56 2007