**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 12 02:59:56 2007
Oct 12 03:10:30 <Hopscotch> good morning
Oct 12 05:42:03 <mbuf> how can i make source code as well as binary (.ipk) available for a release in cvs (at GForge in projects.openmoko.org)?
Oct 12 06:04:47 <bewandered> greetings
Oct 12 06:08:37 <bewandered> anyone else having trouble getting their neo1973 to register with the cell phone network?
Oct 12 06:11:44 <mbuf> bewandered, no, which image are you using?
Oct 12 06:11:58 <mbuf> bewandered, ATE1 will register to network
Oct 12 06:12:53 <bewandered> i loaded the latest image available via the OS X flasher
Oct 12 06:13:03 <bewandered> (checking)
Oct 12 06:14:41 <bewandered> hmm where can i find the image name/rev? 
Oct 12 06:14:51 <bewandered> the flasher lists i as:
Oct 12 06:15:23 <bewandered> openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070831093931.rootfs.jffs2
Oct 12 06:21:16 <mbuf> bewandered, which operator?
Oct 12 06:21:27 <bewandered> t-mobile, in the US
Oct 12 06:22:41 <mbuf> bewandered, did you follow this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_atcmd_mode
Oct 12 06:23:18 <bewandered> i'm trying that right now :)
Oct 12 06:24:30 <bewandered> i have found that most of them time, when i select "power-up GSM antenna"  from the small antenna menu in the upper right, it seems to crash something -- the bar along the top of the phone disappears
Oct 12 06:25:57 <mbuf> bewandered, i always start gsmd after power-up, "/etc/init.d/gsmd start" before I use it
Oct 12 06:26:12 <bewandered> ah, OK
Oct 12 06:27:06 <mbuf> bewandered, AFAIK, there is some gsm boot-up initialization timing issue, not sure if it has been resolved yet
Oct 12 06:28:00 <bewandered> ok, the start seems to have worked.
Oct 12 06:28:17 <bewandered> (slow going here, i'm trying with the keyboard on the screen)
Oct 12 06:28:22 <bewandered> "typing"
Oct 12 06:28:55 <mbuf> bewandered, ssh into the device, it is much faster and easier to operate that way
Oct 12 06:29:21 <bewandered> yeah, unfortunately, i don't have a convenient way to do that yet
Oct 12 06:29:27 <bewandered> my desktop is NetBSD
Oct 12 06:30:35 <bewandered> i've enabled the Ethernet over USB stuff enabled in the kernel
Oct 12 06:31:07 <bewandered> but it doesn't recognize the device properly
Oct 12 06:31:23 <bewandered> cdce0 at uhub1 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0
Oct 12 06:31:23 <bewandered> cdce0: Linux 2.6.20.7-moko8/s3c2410_udc RNDIS/Ethernet Gadget, rev 2.00/2.12, addr 2
Oct 12 06:31:23 <bewandered> cdce0: could not find data bulk in
Oct 12 06:33:19 <bewandered> ok, looks like it found a network
Oct 12 06:33:29 <mbuf> bewandered, configuration 1 is correct, atleast that is what i see on the host Debian PC
Oct 12 06:33:41 <bewandered> ok
Oct 12 06:34:01 <bewandered> i have a Debian desktop at work, i can try it there in about 8 hours :)
Oct 12 06:35:56 <bewandered> the man page, cdce(4) says this at the end:
Oct 12 06:36:01 <bewandered> CAVEATS
Oct 12 06:36:01 <bewandered>      Many USB devices notoriously fail to report their class and interfaces
Oct 12 06:36:01 <bewandered>      correctly.  Undetected products might work flawlessly when their vendor
Oct 12 06:36:01 <bewandered>      and product IDs are added to the driver manually.
Oct 12 06:36:14 <bewandered> so it could be something related to that
Oct 12 06:38:55 <mbuf> bewandered, not worked on BSDs that much, might want to check with the developers
Oct 12 06:45:52 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r3147 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch uboot-mokoversion.patch): 
Oct 12 06:45:52 <CIA-23> openmoko: Fix bug that caused precharge current only ~ 40..50mA instead of 80..100mA on
Oct 12 06:45:52 <CIA-23> openmoko: GTA01 (Wally Ritchie) Closes: #762
Oct 12 06:47:58 <mbuf> does anyone know how to invoke a shell script from a GTK+ GUI?
Oct 12 06:48:26 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: Use the terminal?
Oct 12 06:49:04 <mbuf> stefan_schmidt, i would like to integrate it with a GUI application
Oct 12 06:49:51 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: Ah, write a desktop file for it
Oct 12 06:50:14 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: Put it in the right directory and it should show up in the launcher
Oct 12 06:50:26 <mbuf> stefan_schmidt, i see
Oct 12 06:51:45 <mbuf> stefan_schmidt, newbie here, any documentation links?
Oct 12 06:52:00 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: Ragarding to the desktop files?
Oct 12 06:52:07 <mbuf> stefan_schmidt, yes
Oct 12 06:52:24 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: There should be a spec at freedesktop.org
Oct 12 06:52:36 <mbuf> stefan_schmidt, ok, thanks
Oct 12 06:52:46 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: But just have a look at the other files to get the syntax. It's really simple
Oct 12 06:54:05 <stefan_schmidt> mbuf: /usr/share/applications/openmoko-feedreader2.desktop
Oct 12 06:54:15 <alphaone> mbuf: Or do you mean the use of fork/exec?
Oct 12 06:55:22 <mbuf> alphaone, i want to execute "/etc/init.d/some-service" from the GTK+ GUI
Oct 12 06:56:27 <alphaone> mbuf: Okay, so you want an icon in the launcher to start it? Then use a .desktop file.
Oct 12 06:56:46 <mbuf> alphabeat, ok
Oct 12 07:06:08 <bewandered> mbuf, thanks for your help
Oct 12 07:08:01 <mbuf> bewandered, anytime
Oct 12 07:15:22 <stefan_schmidt> wow, 2 hours and 20 minutes for a complete build from scratch (sources already there)
Oct 12 07:16:35 <stefan_schmidt> If anybody looking for a good cpu for devel, go for a core2 quad :)
Oct 12 07:18:16 <ScaredyCat> oh, wait, i have 2 of those machines in my pocket....
Oct 12 07:18:33 * ScaredyCat burries stefan_schmidt in the snow
Oct 12 07:19:36 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: Be careful with having them in the pocket. They get really hot during compile. ;)
Oct 12 07:20:32 <ScaredyCat> boiled eggs eh ? ;)
Oct 12 07:20:56 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: heh
Oct 12 07:28:41 <stefan_schmidt> XorA|gone: Awake?
Oct 12 07:42:00 <abraxa__> mbuf: Did you get your GTK+ problem solved yesterday?
Oct 12 07:42:24 <mbuf> abraxa__, which one?
Oct 12 07:43:11 <mbuf> abraxa_, the scrollbar to be displayed fully for GtkTreeView?
Oct 12 07:43:18 <mbuf> abraxa_, yes, http://free-opensource.qvantel.net/uploads/amc/amc-oct-11-2007.png
Oct 12 07:44:25 <abraxa_> mbuf: You were looking for an example on how to get a GtkTreeView updated after a (separate) GtkTreeStore change
Oct 12 07:44:57 <mbuf> abraxa_, i stored the data temporarily,and then update the GtkTreeStore with the values, and finally updated the GtkTreeView
Oct 12 07:45:17 <mbuf> abraxa_, i am new to model-view-controller design :) learning something new daily though
Oct 12 07:45:18 <abraxa_> Ahh okay, so you solved it. Good =)
Oct 12 09:01:54 <ntshan> any java development on this platform?
Oct 12 09:05:13 <cardone> Hi
Oct 12 09:05:33 <cardone> I would purchase the neo1973 from openmoko.com....
Oct 12 09:05:38 <ntshan> ...
Oct 12 09:05:44 <cardone> what about VAT for europe?
Oct 12 09:06:06 <cardone> someone has already done?
Oct 12 09:06:09 <XorA> cardone: courier will bill you for that
Oct 12 09:09:33 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r3148 10/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA02v3/ (. gpio.txt gpio.txt): gpio changes for GTA02v3
Oct 12 09:10:15 <zash`> cardone: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes
Oct 12 09:14:27 <zash`> ( holy fucking crap, ~750 USD for a phone? )
Oct 12 09:14:46 <ntshan> wow i figured it'd gone down by now
Oct 12 09:15:10 <cardone> zash`...
Oct 12 09:15:28 <cardone> 750$ for what?
Oct 12 09:15:34 <cardone> what model?
Oct 12 09:15:39 <zash`> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes#Sweden
Oct 12 09:15:40 <cardone> witch model?
Oct 12 09:15:48 <zash`> 450 + 127 + 172
Oct 12 09:15:53 <cardone> ah ok
Oct 12 09:15:54 <cardone> VAT
Oct 12 09:16:06 <zash`> mm
Oct 12 09:16:21 <bedboi> omg
Oct 12 09:16:37 <bedboi> I've been smart buying it when in the US
Oct 12 09:16:45 <bedboi> i saved a LOOOT of money
Oct 12 09:24:54 <florian> good morning
Oct 12 09:26:18 <ntshan> hi
Oct 12 09:26:48 <gi-el> hm
Oct 12 09:26:57 <gi-el> i don't understand the qtopia onscreen keyboard :(
Oct 12 09:27:47 <mjr> me neither
Oct 12 09:27:48 <CVirus> wtf is 750$ for ????
Oct 12 09:28:07 <gi-el> i can't manage to type simple messages :)
Oct 12 09:28:20 <zash`> CVirus: 450 for phone and the rest is shipping and VAT
Oct 12 09:28:29 <mjr> CVirus, neo advanced+ups express shipping+Swedish customs and duties
Oct 12 09:28:34 <CVirus> ewwww
Oct 12 09:28:49 <zash`> yay for taxes :D
Oct 12 09:28:55 <CVirus> I hope I find someone abroad to buy it for me when it comes out
Oct 12 09:28:57 <ljp> gi-el: what do you need to know about it?
Oct 12 09:29:50 <mjr> the OpenMoko guys have mentioned they're setting up a EU shipper for GTA02, should help costs inside EU at least
Oct 12 09:30:27 * CVirus is expecting the Neo1973 to be released in February  at the soonest
Oct 12 09:30:43 <CVirus> infact .. I'm also dying for one :-(
Oct 12 09:30:52 <guaqua> how large is the parcel from neo without the dev kit?
Oct 12 09:31:18 <guaqua> for what i know, normal postal delivery shouldn't be much...though if it's done via another courier, it costs more
Oct 12 09:31:35 <guaqua> and taiwan :(
Oct 12 09:31:47 <gi-el> ljp: i just want to type words
Oct 12 09:31:49 <gi-el> ljp: in dutch
Oct 12 09:31:53 <gi-el> ljp: with spaces in between
Oct 12 09:32:02 <gi-el> without the thing trying to guess all kinds of stuff
Oct 12 09:32:20 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03stefan * r3149 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/openmoko-panel-bt.c): 
Oct 12 09:32:20 <CIA-23> openmoko: 2007-10-12 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org>
Oct 12 09:32:20 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * src/openmoko-panel-bt.c:
Oct 12 09:32:20 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * configure.ac:
Oct 12 09:32:20 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Use libnotify dor showing changes instead of dialog boxes. Patch by
Oct 12 09:32:21 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Alexandre d'Alton <alex@alexdalton.org>
Oct 12 09:55:52 <mbuf> why do i get CME ERROR: 3 for "AT+CLAC" ? are there any pre-requisite AT commands to be issued before it will work?
Oct 12 10:24:09 <pvanhoof> mickeyl, ping
Oct 12 10:25:35 <mickeyl> hi pvanhoof. thanks for your document. I was on holidays and OEDEM, so I couldn't comment yet. will do soon. i'll also be in Taipei late next week, so I'll talk to Sean about everything administrative.
Oct 12 10:25:43 <mickeyl> sorry, brief. I'm about to run for lunch
Oct 12 10:25:47 <pvanhoof> ok
Oct 12 10:25:49 <pvanhoof> np :)
Oct 12 10:25:50 <mickeyl> will be later here tonite
Oct 12 10:25:53 <pvanhoof> you anwered all qs
Oct 12 10:26:00 <mickeyl> hehe, ok :)
Oct 12 10:56:56 <mjr> a little something that would seem nice in some future device; http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=10894
Oct 12 10:58:54 <SpeedEvil> A much more interesting app is not fingerprint recognition.
Oct 12 10:59:00 <SpeedEvil> It's finger identification.
Oct 12 10:59:05 <CVirus> a 3.5'' LCD is the bes ever
Oct 12 10:59:16 <SpeedEvil> And finger/pointer identification
Oct 12 10:59:19 <CVirus> best*
Oct 12 10:59:54 <SpeedEvil> The one problem is that it's not going to be able to detect touches when off.
Oct 12 11:00:34 <SpeedEvil> The finger-ID lets you easily left and right click.
Oct 12 11:01:17 <ynezz> and also two middle :p
Oct 12 11:02:03 <SpeedEvil> And of course, there is a huge difference between 'demonstrated' and 'someones ordered a million, so we can put it into production'.
Oct 12 11:03:13 <SpeedEvil> The comment about the lack of filters seems to misunderstand the technology.
Oct 12 11:03:15 <mjr> yes indeed
Oct 12 11:03:23 <SpeedEvil> Yes, there are less filters in this case.
Oct 12 11:03:44 <SpeedEvil> However, the sensors will not be free, they are going to take up display area, reducing transmission.
Oct 12 11:03:51 <SpeedEvil> So it may be a wash.
Oct 12 11:07:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r3150 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer-panel.c src/moko-keypad.c): 
Oct 12 11:07:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_init):
Oct 12 11:07:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: (on_panel_user_hold):
Oct 12 11:07:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: - Insert digits on "button down"
Oct 12 11:07:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: - Replace primary digit with secondary digit when tap-and-hold occurs
Oct 12 11:11:24 <thos> that should help make the dialer more usable
Oct 12 11:12:45 <zash`> secondary as in [pw+] ?
Oct 12 11:13:26 <zash`> does it empty the input-field on tap-and-hold?
Oct 12 11:14:34 <zash`> tap&hold on delete-button
Oct 12 11:15:33 <thos> zash`: I haven't fixed that one yet, but it does already
Oct 12 11:15:57 <thos> zash`: that one still only works once you release the button
Oct 12 11:16:31 <zash`> delete_button.tap_and_hold() { if(input_field.empty?) exit else input_field.empty! }
Oct 12 11:18:04 <zash`> or, universal back-button like qtopia would be nice
Oct 12 11:18:33 <thos> zash`: it does that already
Oct 12 11:18:39 <thos> zash`: clear the input, that is
Oct 12 11:18:53 <thos> zash`: it just doesn't do it until you release the button, instead of while you are holding it
Oct 12 11:19:04 <thos> so hold + release will clear the input
Oct 12 11:19:12 <thos> I am going to fix it so just hold will clear it
Oct 12 11:19:16 <zash`> aha
Oct 12 11:19:23 <zash`> nice :)
Oct 12 11:32:39 <mbuf> what is required to be added for a GTK+ application to use finger-scrolling?
Oct 12 11:39:46 <thos> mbuf: use the MokoFingerScroll widget
Oct 12 11:39:50 <thos> as the scrolled window
Oct 12 11:40:25 <mbuf> thos, i see
Oct 12 11:45:06 <abraxa_> thos: Do you happen to have an idea how I can add padding to, say, a GtkImage in a themeable way? I tried using x-/ythickness in the RC file but that didn't have any effect at all...
Oct 12 11:46:02 <thos> abraxa_: yeah, x/ythickness won't apply to GtkImage because it's not drawn using a theme
Oct 12 11:46:02 * SpeedEvil misread that as Rat ermines
Oct 12 11:46:25 <thos> abraxa_: perhaps put it inside a GtkFrame?
Oct 12 11:48:58 <abraxa_> thos: ...and give the frame the padding? Hmm, that might work, though I wonder if I can make the frame invisible. I guess setting shadow-type to GTK_SHADOW_NONE might do the trick... I'll try.
Oct 12 11:49:04 <abraxa_> thos: Thanks for the pointer :)
Oct 12 11:49:32 <thos> abraxa_: yeah
Oct 12 12:18:03 <cjb_ie> right, p910i getting too flaky, going back to my old visorphone
Oct 12 12:18:20 <cjb_ie> at least until something else comes along ;-)
Oct 12 12:19:06 <jonibo> i keep getting blocked on building fontconfig because of some certificate that cannot be verified... it has been like this for a week, is nobody else seeing this:
Oct 12 12:19:08 <jonibo> NOTE: fetch https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/fontconfig/device_symbols.h
Oct 12 12:19:08 <jonibo> --14:14:50--  https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/fontconfig/device_symbols.h
Oct 12 12:19:08 <jonibo>            => `/home/jonas/OM-2007.2/sources/device_symbols.h'
Oct 12 12:19:08 <jonibo> Resolving stage.maemo.org... 62.61.85.32
Oct 12 12:19:08 <jonibo> Connecting to stage.maemo.org|62.61.85.32|:443... connected.
Oct 12 12:19:09 <jonibo> ERROR: Certificate verification error for stage.maemo.org: unable to get local issuer certificate
Oct 12 12:19:11 <jonibo> To connect to stage.maemo.org insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'.
Oct 12 12:19:13 <jonibo> Unable to establish SSL connection.
Oct 12 12:23:16 <abraxa_> jonibo: You can edit openembedded/conf/bitbake.conf and edit FETCHCOMMAND_wget to include --no-check-certificate if you want to do that
Oct 12 12:24:30 <abraxa_> Also, what distri are you running?
Oct 12 12:24:55 <jonibo> abraxa_: thanks... I will do that... I imagine though there is a "real" solution, too, which should go into openembedded...?
Oct 12 12:25:03 <jonibo> i am running Ubuntu Gutsy.
Oct 12 12:25:31 <abraxa_> Ah, hm... I would have had an idea if it had been gentoo, but alas...
Oct 12 12:36:57 <emdete> i am currently experimenting with gprs alot and have some recommendation for reliable gprs connection for http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS - what is the policy? just edit the wiki (it's quite alot) or ask the original author first?
Oct 12 12:40:15 <PBeck> schönen wochenendanfang :D
Oct 12 12:40:50 <zash`> emdete: edit away!
Oct 12 12:46:59 <avegas> hey, the production phones with WiFi are coming soon, no?
Oct 12 12:47:12 <avegas> oh
Oct 12 12:47:18 <avegas> just read the broadcast
Oct 12 12:47:21 <avegas> apologies
Oct 12 12:52:27 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r3151 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-keypad.c): 
Oct 12 12:52:27 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: Clear dialer display when delete button held down,
Oct 12 12:52:27 <CIA-23> openmoko: rather than only when held and released
Oct 12 12:52:46 <thos> zash`: ok, clear button fixed now too :-)
Oct 12 12:53:12 <zash`> :D
Oct 12 12:54:14 <zash`> then there's just the matter of me not having a neo :/
Oct 12 13:07:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 925 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com
Oct 12 13:07:01 <cdbot2> * * Hanging out does not stop calling at gsmd level
Oct 12 13:07:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=925
Oct 12 13:07:15 <cesarb> jonibo: you need (IIRC) the ca-certificates package
Oct 12 13:07:47 <cesarb> jonibo: else curl doesn't have any CA certificates to check, and refuses to download from https without a successful verification
Oct 12 13:08:07 <jonibo> cesarb: thanks... I did not know about that package!
Oct 12 13:08:17 <cesarb> (curl or wget or whatever it uses...)
Oct 12 13:09:29 <cesarb> jonibo: this probably should be added to the mokomakefile page, since it seems to be a faq... I've seen it asked several times around here already (and the "just change the fetch command advice" is just a workaround... the Right Way is to add the certificates)
Oct 12 13:13:12 <jonibo> cesarb: thanks... i installed the package and i will try again... i did not see the maemo.org certificate in the package, though... i believe that is what it was getting stuck on, some patch for fontconfig.
Oct 12 13:13:21 <arw1> hello
Oct 12 13:13:25 <cesarb> jonibo: you will not see the maemo.org certificate
Oct 12 13:13:47 <cesarb> jonibo: you will see the certificate of the CA authority which signed the maemo.org vertificate
Oct 12 13:13:57 <jonibo> cesarb:  of course... 
Oct 12 13:14:32 <cesarb> jonibo: or the certificate of the CA authority which signed the intermediate certificate(s) which signed the maemo.org certificate, and which unlike on microsoft websites is sent by the server together with the maemo.org certificate
Oct 12 13:15:20 * cesarb suddenly notices "A    trunk/doc/hardware/GTA02v3"
Oct 12 13:16:22 <ynezz> v4 is release right? 
Oct 12 13:18:07 * mypapit out!!!
Oct 12 13:18:36 <cesarb> ynezz: it depends on how many hardware bugs have to be fixed
Oct 12 13:20:15 <cesarb> ynezz: GTA01 had some six revisions before the GTA01Bv4 most of us know
Oct 12 13:29:01 <cesarb> jonibo: if it works, could you add a note to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile so other people won't get stuck in the same place?
Oct 12 13:29:47 <jonibo> cesarb: ok, as soon as I've established that this works I'll fix up the wiki page
Oct 12 13:39:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 926 has been created by developer(AT)linuxmontreal.com
Oct 12 13:39:01 <cdbot2> * * Project mailing lists are broken.
Oct 12 13:39:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=926
Oct 12 13:40:24 <tuukkah> hi cesarb! i'm sorry i can't understand what you're saying in #906, can you help me?
Oct 12 13:41:20 <cesarb> tuukkah: basically, the comment was a lie due to a bug, and that's probably how ATH went through in the past
Oct 12 13:41:52 <tuukkah> ok, so #906 appeared when the bug was fixed?
Oct 12 13:41:56 <cesarb> tuukkah: now, the gsmd in OE (but not in the OM svn, it's all due to patches in the OE recipe) it seems more robust, and the command probably isn't being sent before the answer gets back
Oct 12 13:42:28 <cesarb> tuukkah: however, I didn't look at the patches closely enough, so I cannot say for certain they really did that
Oct 12 13:43:35 <tuukkah> i wonder what the solution will be
Oct 12 13:43:56 <tuukkah> allow command pipelining again, or make some special case for ATD and ATH
Oct 12 13:44:44 <cesarb> tuukkah: probably special-casing (or, rather, whitelisting some commands -- which sounds nicer even though it's the same thing), pipelining seems troublesome in general (see bug 766, for instance)
Oct 12 13:45:03 <cesarb> tuukkah: the problem is that it seems some commands are interrupted by the mere sending of another unrelated command
Oct 12 13:45:14 <cesarb> tuukkah: I've heard, for instance, that AT+COPS=? is one of them
Oct 12 13:45:14 <tuukkah> yeah, ATD is one of those
Oct 12 13:45:38 <tuukkah> that would mean it's ATH that should be whitelisted
Oct 12 13:46:04 <cesarb> tuukkah: another option would be to create a new gsmd message, "force cancel dialing" or something like that, and gsmd would pipeline only for that particular message
Oct 12 13:46:35 <cesarb> tuukkah: probably would be more elegant than whitelisting (it shows explicitly the cancelling intention of the app)
Oct 12 13:47:27 <tuukkah> ok. that wouldn't work with libgsmd-tool --mode atcmd then, but perhaps that doesn't matter
Oct 12 13:47:42 <cesarb> tuukkah: the main problem you would have would be: the gsmd in OE has diverged significantly from the one in OM, and harald probably won't accept patches for the OE one, and patching the OM one would break the patches in OE...
Oct 12 13:48:18 <cesarb> tuukkah: --mode atcmd probably should use a message which utterly allows pipelining always... if you use that DEBUGGING ONLY mode, you know what you are doing
Oct 12 13:48:44 <tuukkah> cesarb, i see
Oct 12 13:48:49 <cesarb> (of course, a no-pipelining passthrough would still be needed for apps which want to use things like AT%EM)
Oct 12 13:49:11 <tuukkah> (what's that?)
Oct 12 13:50:00 <cesarb> tuukkah: AT%EM is an undocumented "engineering mode" command
Oct 12 13:50:13 <cesarb> tuukkah: shows lots and lots of numbers
Oct 12 13:50:31 <cesarb> tuukkah: most of them only make sense if you've read a lot of the GSM standards
Oct 12 13:50:47 <tuukkah> i should read more :-)
Oct 12 13:51:23 <cesarb> tuukkah: some people in this channel found a documentation for a "completely unrelated" ( ;-) ) chip which uses the exactly same engineering mode commands: Enfora IIE
Oct 12 13:51:55 <cesarb> tuukkah: go find that chip's docs and grab them all, they are useful even if they sometimes don't apply (you know, "completely unrelated chip")
Oct 12 13:53:35 <cesarb> (nitpicker's corner: yeah, I know it's a set of chips, not a chip...)
Oct 12 13:53:48 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/em.pdf
Oct 12 13:54:01 <tuukkah> "Enfora Enabler IIE" - has edge too
Oct 12 13:54:19 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, 404
Oct 12 13:54:33 <cesarb> tuukkah: yeah, none of the EDGE commands apply, of course
Oct 12 13:54:44 <cesarb> tuukkah: the % ones mostly apply, none of the * ones seem to
Oct 12 13:55:36 <cesarb> tuukkah: and don't try ATAND, it doesn't work, returning what looks a lot like a bogus error (as if someone added a GOTO ERROR_OUT to the top of its handler), even if you try to set it to its current value
Oct 12 13:55:42 <cesarb> urgh 
Oct 12 13:55:46 <cesarb> tuukkah: and don't try AT%BAND, it doesn't work, returning what looks a lot like a bogus error (as if someone added a GOTO ERROR_OUT to the top of its handler), even if you try to set it to its current value
Oct 12 13:56:00 <cesarb> stupid bolding escape
Oct 12 13:57:31 <tuukkah> am i looking at the wrong document, this one doesn't have * commands
Oct 12 13:59:56 <SpeedEvil> en.pdf?
Oct 12 14:00:04 <SpeedEvil> ->tuu
Oct 12 14:00:31 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, thanks, got it
Oct 12 14:00:39 <SpeedEvil> k
Oct 12 14:00:45 <cesarb> tuukkah: I might be confusing with another one...
Oct 12 14:01:30 <cesarb> tuukkah: sorry, it was $ not *, * was from something else
Oct 12 14:02:20 <cesarb> tuukkah: the presence of a $OFF shows the $ ones were probably added later, much like neo's @ ones (@POFF for instance)
Oct 12 14:02:30 <cesarb> tuukkah: the % ones seem to be the base set
Oct 12 14:03:05 <tuukkah> heh, lingustics :-)
Oct 12 14:03:17 <tuukkah> linguistics
Oct 12 14:04:39 <cesarb> tuukkah: ?
Oct 12 14:05:33 <tuukkah> cesarb, this is like the science of spoken languages: tracing their development in the history by comparing vocabulary etc.
Oct 12 14:05:56 <cesarb> tuukkah: ah
Oct 12 14:09:39 <tuukkah> i'm trying to find a list in the documents telling which commands are like ATD and AT+COPS=?
Oct 12 14:10:02 <cesarb> tuukkah: you won't
Oct 12 14:10:23 <cesarb> tuukkah: that's something you learn by trying
Oct 12 14:10:53 <tuukkah> cesarb, wow, that's very silly of the gsm standard then
Oct 12 14:10:56 <cesarb> tuukkah: nothing in the docs I recall say that some commands are aborted by "pressing any key" like these
Oct 12 14:11:18 <cesarb> tuukkah: I haven't however read them closely...
Oct 12 14:11:48 <cesarb> tuukkah: and it's possible that the canceling behaviour on ATD comes from the older AT standards (modems!)
Oct 12 14:11:50 <tuukkah> cesarb, yes, perhaps this is mentioned in "small print" on the last page ;-)
Oct 12 14:11:57 <atul> How do i configure OpenMoko SDK with Anjuta or Eclipse IDE to develope OpenMoko application
Oct 12 14:12:16 <tuukkah> atul, do we have an SDK?
Oct 12 14:12:23 <atul> yes
Oct 12 14:12:24 * cesarb seems to recall vaguely you could cancel dialing on USR Sportster modems by typing anything
Oct 12 14:12:50 <cesarb> atul: does the SDK package even compile? I don't think it's even been tested
Oct 12 14:13:06 <atul> cesarb, yes
Oct 12 14:13:29 <atul> cesarb, Actually i dont no exactly I am new to platform
Oct 12 14:13:31 <cesarb> (it's openmoko-sdk-image for those who never saw it)
Oct 12 14:14:04 <cesarb> atul: nobody I know of is using that, everyone is using OE directly or compiling by hand
Oct 12 14:14:16 <atul> yes I also use OE
Oct 12 14:14:25 <atul> OM2007.2 build
Oct 12 14:14:45 <cesarb> atul: I meant directly creating a OE recipe to compile their own creations ;-)
Oct 12 14:15:27 <atul> cesarb, so does u mean that i can't develope OpenMoko application on Anjuta IDE 
Oct 12 14:15:40 <atul> or using Anjuta IDE
Oct 12 14:16:11 <cesarb> atul: I don't know Anjuta, but if you can configure things like compiler paths, include file paths, and so, probably you can... just don't expect a point-and-click setup
Oct 12 14:16:54 <atul> cesarb, Anjuta a simple IDE for GTK, GNOME developement
Oct 12 14:17:34 * cesarb is one of those "old-fashioned" people whose IDE is the command line, gvim, and make
Oct 12 14:18:07 <Sup3rkiddo> emacs'ers we know our man :P
Oct 12 14:18:22 <guaqua> cesarb: still gvim :)
Oct 12 14:18:33 <Sup3rkiddo> now thats two
Oct 12 14:18:39 <cesarb> Sup3rkiddo: hey, it was emacs which led me to want a real unix instead of DOS+Win3.1 ;-)
Oct 12 14:18:46 <Sup3rkiddo> lol
Oct 12 14:18:56 <cesarb> (and then on unix I found vim...)
Oct 12 14:19:08 <Sup3rkiddo> ..and a text editor
Oct 12 14:19:32 <cesarb> Sup3rkiddo: DOS had "edit.exe", which wasn't that bad (for DOS standards)
Oct 12 14:19:54 <Sup3rkiddo> hehe
Oct 12 14:20:13 <atul> tuukkah, sorry we dont have any SDK for openmoko
Oct 12 14:20:33 <prpplague> hrw: ping
Oct 12 14:21:03 <mbuf> if i create a new GtkTreeView and GtkTreeStore everytime user clicks a button, the new view gets appended to the previous one! how do i fix that? or should i use a different approach?
Oct 12 14:21:16 <cesarb> atul: before I get too offtopic: you probably will have to change the compiler paths to within build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/ and the include, lib, etc paths to inside build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/
Oct 12 14:21:49 <atul> cesarb, ok
Oct 12 14:21:50 <cesarb> atul: if you do it right, you should then be able to compile directly from the IDE to an ARM EABI binary
Oct 12 14:21:51 <prpplague> anyone know where the neo1973 hardware block diagram is?
Oct 12 14:22:03 <atul> cesarb, ok
Oct 12 14:22:05 <cesarb> prpplague: there isn't one
Oct 12 14:22:23 <cesarb> prpplague: but see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware
Oct 12 14:22:29 <prpplague> cesarb: hmm, i could have sworn i saw a block diagram on the wiki before
Oct 12 14:22:44 <prpplague> cesarb: yea thats where i looked
Oct 12 14:22:45 <cesarb> prpplague: it was probably the audio chip one, showing the _inside_ of _one_ of the audio chips
Oct 12 14:23:01 <cesarb> prpplague: that block diagram came from the chip's docs
Oct 12 14:23:28 <cesarb> prpplague: the neo is way more complex than that... the sheer amount of power domains and audio connections, for instance
Oct 12 14:23:47 <tuukkah> there was a promise somewhere that we have a block diagram
Oct 12 14:23:49 <cesarb> prpplague: I tried making a block diagram, but gave up... way too many things to link
Oct 12 14:24:15 <cesarb> tuukkah: they don't have time for that yet... (but we do have info enough to make our own, it's just a lot of work!)
Oct 12 14:24:36 <tuukkah> for example here "The block diagram of the hardware, the chip identification, and the APIs for all hardware is published." http://www.ubuntulive.com/cs/ubuntu/view/e_sess/14821
Oct 12 14:25:15 <tuukkah> i should learn more inkscape anyway :-)
Oct 12 14:25:16 <cesarb> tuukkah: ...except where they can't (for instance, the LCM, the GSM chipset...) ;-)
Oct 12 14:26:26 <prpplague> tuukkah: ahh thanks
Oct 12 14:26:53 <tuukkah> prpplague?
Oct 12 14:27:08 <cesarb> prpplague: ah, and there was a block diagram of the power domains, for an older neo revision, somewhere outside the wiki... you perhaps saw that
Oct 12 14:27:16 <hrw> prpplague: i
Oct 12 14:27:44 <prpplague> yea, now i remember it was part of one of the presentations on the openmoko
Oct 12 14:28:13 <tuukkah> prpplague, would be interesting to find and publish it
Oct 12 14:30:47 <tuukkah> cesarb, "The modem guideline V.25ter applies to the sequence of the interface commands. -- A command currently in process is interrupted by each additional character entered."
Oct 12 14:31:19 <cesarb> tuukkah: hm, that means pipelining is always wrong... great finding
Oct 12 14:31:21 <dtx> Man I can't wait for the Neo to come out
Oct 12 14:31:31 <cesarb> tuukkah: it also explains bug 766 nicely
Oct 12 14:31:34 <dtx> I like my N800 but the Neo is so nice and portable
Oct 12 14:32:26 <cesarb> dtx: I can't wait for the Neo _software_ to come out ;-)
Oct 12 14:32:38 <cesarb> dtx: it's still far enough from being usable
Oct 12 14:32:43 <tuukkah> cesarb, so perhaps add a gsmd call for interrupt which sends "AT"
Oct 12 14:32:57 <cesarb> tuukkah: race-condition prone
Oct 12 14:33:14 <cesarb> tuukkah: what if the dialing finishes while you are sending the interrupt-that! command to gsmd?
Oct 12 14:33:32 <cesarb> tuukkah: we're talking asymetric multi-processing here, after all...
Oct 12 14:33:45 <tuukkah> cesarb, there's no problem, that's why i chose AT which doesn't actually do anything
Oct 12 14:33:45 <cesarb> tuukkah: sending ATH is better for interrupting dialing
Oct 12 14:34:08 <cesarb> tuukkah: since if dialing ends before the ATH gets sent it'll still do what is wanted
Oct 12 14:34:18 <tuukkah> if you want to hang up, you would first interrupt and then send ATH
Oct 12 14:34:41 <hrw> prpplague: pöng
Oct 12 14:35:12 <tuukkah> cesarb, what about interrupt_and_send(cmd)
Oct 12 14:37:43 <dtx> I just want the hardware to come out
Oct 12 14:37:51 <dtx> So I can mess with the software
Oct 12 14:38:11 <dtx> Get Inkscape working on it for that collaborative whiteboard thing
Oct 12 15:04:48 <johann> Hi there
Oct 12 15:06:09 <johann> I got my openmoko gta01bv4  :) , After flashing the kernel and the root fs everything seemed to work.
Oct 12 15:06:18 <SpeedEvil> :)
Oct 12 15:06:27 <cesarb> johann: welcome to the club :-)
Oct 12 15:06:36 <alphaone> johann: congratulations
Oct 12 15:06:57 <johann> But the I tried to flash the u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0.... and now my openmoko stays BLACK :O 
Oct 12 15:07:22 <johann> I hope I did not detstroy it?!?!?! :| 
Oct 12 15:07:52 <cesarb> johann: that's not called destroying, it's called bricking, and it's recoverable with the debug board
Oct 12 15:08:34 <johann> Okay, so I was stupid just to get the tiny 300USD version!?
Oct 12 15:08:41 <SpeedEvil> What was the exact command you ran?
Oct 12 15:09:09 <johann> I'm using MacOSX on a MacBook (Intel) and used the OpenMoko Flasher
Oct 12 15:09:12 <alphaone> johann: Do you have a debug board? If not you can try to find a moko user group in your area with someone with a debug board.
Oct 12 15:09:26 <cesarb> johann: not if you know of someone with a debug board nearby, or are somewhere with a high concentration of people with neos
Oct 12 15:09:34 <johann> While flashing it showed: 
Oct 12 15:09:35 <johann> Starting download: [##################################################] finished!
Oct 12 15:09:48 <alphaone> Or you could call for help on device-owners
Oct 12 15:09:51 <johann> state(2) = dfuIDLE, status(0) = No error condition is present
Oct 12 15:10:00 <johann> Done!
Oct 12 15:10:00 <johann> Resetting USB to switch back to runtime mode
Oct 12 15:10:06 <alphaone> johann: What version exactly did you flash?
Oct 12 15:10:21 <cesarb> johann: that output looks normal, but it's a mac... most people develop/flash on linux
Oct 12 15:10:38 <cesarb> johann: the mac flasher is probably less tested
Oct 12 15:11:23 <SpeedEvil> Though AIUI there have been no other brick reports.
Oct 12 15:11:32 <SpeedEvil> (due to that)
Oct 12 15:11:38 <johann> I flashed  the u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+svnnow-r14_a89....._a0_2938.bin (dated 07-SEPT-2007)
Oct 12 15:11:42 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: but have people ever used that flasher on uboot?
Oct 12 15:12:01 <alphaone> johann: And you downloaded it from buildhost?
Oct 12 15:12:05 <SpeedEvil> cesarb: good question. I know I absolutely have not flashed uboot.
Oct 12 15:12:16 <SpeedEvil> Simply because the shipped version works well enough.
Oct 12 15:12:20 <alphaone> johann: Can you post the exact command you used to flash?
Oct 12 15:12:39 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: I flashed uboot once (but then I'm on ubuntu), only to avoid the "nand erase rootfs" annoyance
Oct 12 15:12:54 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: but then with the very well-tested "august snapshot" uboot
Oct 12 15:13:06 <johann> okay here is my complete output from OpenMoko Flasher (MacOSX):
Oct 12 15:13:07 <johann> Opening USB Device 0x0000:0x0000...
Oct 12 15:13:08 <johann> Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=0, alt=1, name="u-boot"
Oct 12 15:13:08 <johann> Claiming USB DFU Interface...
Oct 12 15:13:08 <johann> Setting Alternate Setting ...
Oct 12 15:13:08 <johann> Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0
Oct 12 15:13:09 <johann> dfuIDLE, continuing
Oct 12 15:13:10 <johann> Transfer Size = 0x1000
Oct 12 15:13:12 <johann> bytes_per_hash=4271
Oct 12 15:13:14 <johann> Starting download: [##################################################] finished!
Oct 12 15:13:16 <johann> state(2) = dfuIDLE, status(0) = No error condition is present
Oct 12 15:13:18 <johann> Done!
Oct 12 15:13:20 * cesarb will probably end up having to flash a self-built uboot to test uboot stuff...
Oct 12 15:13:20 <johann> Resetting USB to switch back to runtime mode
Oct 12 15:13:37 * ScaredyCat slaps johann
Oct 12 15:13:40 <ScaredyCat> pastebin
Oct 12 15:13:47 <mickeyl> ~praise dfu upload and LaF0rge insisting on standards!
Oct 12 15:13:48 <apt> All hail dfu upload and LaF0rge insisting on standards!!
Oct 12 15:14:34 <johann> does anyone of you live in austria (or germany)
Oct 12 15:14:39 <tuukkah> could be simply a broken uboot version couldn't it?
Oct 12 15:14:43 <johann> and has a devboard?
Oct 12 15:15:15 <johann> tuukkah, yes maybe...
Oct 12 15:15:36 <alphaone> johann: We have a couple of guys in germany.
Oct 12 15:15:50 <alphaone> Many in Berlin or braunschweig or frankfurt
Oct 12 15:15:59 <tuukkah> that's why you're not supposed to flash a uboot unless you have the dev board or know what you're doing
Oct 12 15:16:19 <tuukkah> johann, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vienna
Oct 12 15:16:37 <alphaone> okay, gotta go
Oct 12 15:16:45 <alphaone> good luck johann!
Oct 12 15:17:21 <tuukkah> and http://metalab.at/wiki/OpenMoko
Oct 12 15:17:43 <johann> GREAT, Thank you! There's someone near my location. THANK you a lot! And sorry for my stupidness!!!!  d:) 
Oct 12 15:18:20 * cesarb updates http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Things_not_to_do_with_your_Neo with more advice
Oct 12 15:21:23 <tuukkah> johann, you're welcome
Oct 12 15:23:11 <johann> cesarb: I shoul have read this before flashing my device  :( 
Oct 12 15:23:33 <cesarb> johann: at least you didn't plug the usb without the battery
Oct 12 15:23:40 <cesarb> johann: which is the scariest one on that page ;-)
Oct 12 15:24:25 <cesarb> johann: unbricking tends to be easy unless you are in some place where nobody has a neo nearby... like Rio de Janeiro (which is why I got the lunchbox option)
Oct 12 15:25:14 * cesarb has some friends who are waiting for a usable software stack before getting a neo... but other than that don't know of anyone else from my country with a neo
Oct 12 15:26:19 <tuukkah> i convinced my university to order some and they should be here soon with a debug board
Oct 12 15:27:06 <tuukkah> the first thing i'll do is update uboot :-)
Oct 12 15:27:32 <guaqua> which university is that, tuukkah?
Oct 12 15:27:48 <tuukkah> university of jyväskylä, finland
Oct 12 15:27:53 <guaqua> okay
Oct 12 15:28:21 <tuukkah> not near you?
Oct 12 15:29:18 <tuukkah> in any case, you should be on #openmoko-fi :-)
Oct 12 15:29:20 <guaqua> im in helsinki :)
Oct 12 15:33:46 <Henryk> anyone know whether anyone is working on making things like the ssh host key survive a rootfs reflash? 
Oct 12 15:35:16 <thos> Henryk: it can't
Oct 12 15:35:29 <tuukkah> would it fit in the uboot environment?
Oct 12 15:35:48 <Henryk> thos: wrong answer :-)
Oct 12 15:35:51 <Vegar> Henryk: store it in the SD
Oct 12 15:36:25 <thos> Henryk: I was about to say, unless you save it from the previous image
Oct 12 15:36:53 <tuukkah> they're just a couple of hundred bytes so uboot env could be fine
Oct 12 15:39:31 <Henryk> i was also aiming in the direction of e.g. a fixed MAC address for cdc_ether
Oct 12 15:42:06 <SpeedEvil> That'd be nice.
Oct 12 15:42:20 <tuukkah> also in uboot env?
Oct 12 15:42:37 <tuukkah> do we still lack a way to read and write the env from linux?
Oct 12 15:42:58 <SpeedEvil> dd works - but may often crash the phone.
Oct 12 15:43:14 <tuukkah> any idea why's that?
Oct 12 15:43:27 <tuukkah> and you need to calculate the checksum?
Oct 12 15:44:47 <XorA> Henryk: NSLU2 has a method for this
Oct 12 15:45:24 <XorA> Henryk: org.openembedded.dev/packages/sysconf/sysconf_0.1.bb
Oct 12 15:47:35 <tuukkah> XorA, does it use nvram?
Oct 12 15:47:49 <XorA> tuukkah: mtd AFAIK
Oct 12 15:48:10 <XorA> ask rwhitby its his baby
Oct 12 15:48:38 <tuukkah> oh, they have separate partition for it
Oct 12 15:52:04 <tuukkah> they save config files too
Oct 12 15:53:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 927 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com
Oct 12 15:53:02 <cdbot2> * * Application list not updated when new applications are installed
Oct 12 15:53:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=927
Oct 12 16:16:12 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r3152 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer-textview.c): 
Oct 12 16:16:12 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-textview.c: (moko_dialer_textview_delete): Make sure
Oct 12 16:16:12 <CIA-23> openmoko: the last character is still bold after deleting
Oct 12 16:24:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03werner * r3153 10/trunk/src/host/splash/splashimg.pl: 
Oct 12 16:24:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: - new option -32 for 32 bpp mode
Oct 12 16:24:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: - new option -pnm to use PNM instead of PNG files
Oct 12 16:29:17 <robtaylor> mickeyl: around? I have some exciting HAL news for you...
Oct 12 16:57:53 <Zero_Chaos> Is there a pre-order planned for the next openmoko released?
Oct 12 16:58:23 <Zero_Chaos> (the phone obviously)
Oct 12 16:59:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03chris * r3154 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): 
Oct 12 16:59:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c:
Oct 12 16:59:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_button_press_cb):
Oct 12 16:59:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: Add fix for when widgets grab X after a click inside MokoFingerScroll
Oct 12 17:13:26 <tuukkah> cesarb, if i remove AT+COLP=1 from the modem init, ATD returns immediately and ATH can be sent normally
Oct 12 17:23:49 <cesarb> tuukkah: but some people might want it (what is it for? caller-id of the number you just called?)
Oct 12 17:25:05 <tuukkah> something like that. i don't understand why that setting has to change when ATD returns :-(
Oct 12 17:25:21 <cesarb> tuukkah: see 07.07 for the explanation
Oct 12 17:25:34 <tuukkah> i've looked
Oct 12 17:25:55 <cesarb> tuukkah: it seems it makes the modem return an intermediate response before the final response to ATD
Oct 12 17:25:58 <tuukkah> "This command refers to the GSM/UMTS supplementary service COLP (Connected Line Identification Presentation) that enables a calling subscriber to get the connected line identity (COL) of the called party after setting up a mobile originated call."
Oct 12 17:26:10 <cesarb> tuukkah: but that intermediate response comes from the network...
Oct 12 17:26:42 <tuukkah> why didn't they make it an unsolicited response like CLIP :-(
Oct 12 17:27:16 <cesarb> "When enabled (and called subscriber allows), +COLP: [...] intermediate result code is returned from TA to TE before any +CR or V.25ter [14] responses."
Oct 12 17:27:50 <tuukkah> yeah, i did read it, but i don't understand the decision to make it like that
Oct 12 17:28:41 <tuukkah> it's not very useful either. the response here is +COLP: "",128
Oct 12 17:28:56 <cesarb> tuukkah: I'd suppose it'd be useful if your network supports it
Oct 12 17:29:19 <cesarb> tuukkah: do a "AT+COLP?" to check
Oct 12 17:29:40 <cesarb> tuukkah: if the second number isn't 1, according to that page of the standard your network doesn't have it
Oct 12 17:32:10 <tuukkah> it's 2 so it's unknown status
Oct 12 17:36:21 <Mammux72> Hi. I'm trying to set up my newly received neo1973, but I have a problem: what's the easiest way to set up forwarding / bridging / masquerading / natting / whatever on my linux pc host so the phone can get things from the net?
Oct 12 17:36:51 <juri_> if you're using debian, just "apt-get install ipmasq".
Oct 12 17:36:51 <Mammux72> I've tried with iptables, but I can't get it to work: the PREROUTING and POSTROUTING chains are missing, and those are the ones used by the examples I've sen.
Oct 12 17:37:09 <Mammux72> I'm 'using' Linux From Scratch.
Oct 12 17:37:23 <juri_> ah. prerouting and postrouting are probably built as modules.
Oct 12 17:37:51 <tuukkah> Mammux72, ip_nat and iptable_nat
Oct 12 17:38:11 <tuukkah> ipt_MASQUERADE
Oct 12 17:39:01 <ww> query: if one attempts to read in a rootfs.jffs2 that is too large...
Oct 12 17:39:07 <Mammux72> I've recompiled my kernel with all the relevant things selected and no modules. Then I recompiled iptables in case it had some old settings picked up, but no luck.
Oct 12 17:39:39 <tuukkah> Mammux72, i suppose you've read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Automatic_method
Oct 12 17:40:07 <Mammux72> Yes, but I don't have a distribution per se and the manual method doesn't seem to include nat/masq.
Oct 12 17:40:47 <tuukkah> well the nat is just iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
Oct 12 17:40:58 * ww fears to have bricked a dev phone...
Oct 12 17:41:05 <ww> help?
Oct 12 17:41:24 <ww> haven't seen the neo since: GTA01Bv4 # ext2load mmc 0  0x32000000 rootfs.jffs2
Oct 12 17:41:32 <tuukkah> ww, was that a question :-)
Oct 12 17:41:39 <Mammux72> ww, do you have a debug board
Oct 12 17:42:04 <ww> no... so answer is must use jtag?
Oct 12 17:42:21 <ww> i can possibly borrow one though
Oct 12 17:42:34 <cesarb> ww: what are the symptoms?
Oct 12 17:42:50 <cesarb> ww: doesn't turn on? doesn't turn off?
Oct 12 17:42:51 <Mammux72> That's the advice I've heard before. What happens if you turn it on with aux pressed?
Oct 12 17:42:58 <tuukkah> Mammux72, "iptables -t nat -L" should show the tables. if it doesn't it must be your kernel
Oct 12 17:43:07 <ww> pretty colours on the screen as it overwrote video memory...
Oct 12 17:43:15 <ww> usb serial stopped responding...
Oct 12 17:43:22 <ww> doesn't turn off...
Oct 12 17:43:24 <cesarb> ww: it's just the RAM and the CPU state
Oct 12 17:43:30 <cesarb> ww: do a hard power off
Oct 12 17:43:36 <ww> removed the battery...
Oct 12 17:43:39 <cesarb> ww: aka "remote the battery for an arbitrary amount of time"
Oct 12 17:43:40 <ww> doesn't turn on...
Oct 12 17:43:50 <ww> (replaced the battery)
Oct 12 17:44:30 * ww tries leaving the battery out for longer time...
Oct 12 17:44:36 <cesarb> ww: unless you managed to scribble over some register which wrote junk to the flash, it's probably just in some strange state
Oct 12 17:44:43 <Mammux72> tuukkah: ah they show up .. I thought they would show with just "iptables -L".
Oct 12 17:44:53 <Mammux72> tuukkah: thanks!
Oct 12 17:45:26 <tuukkah> Mammux72, so the next question is why it doesn't work
Oct 12 17:45:43 <cesarb> ww: see for instance <1192096276.30686.5.camel@pc> on device-owners
Oct 12 17:46:16 <cesarb> ww: there it was revived after 13 hours without power
Oct 12 17:46:42 <cesarb> ww: now, just hope you didn't scribble evil things over the _gpio_ registers... some pins just aren't meant to be used as outputs, if you get what I mean
Oct 12 17:47:33 * cesarb notices how robust the neo's software stack is... except for the dreaded "over-drained the battery", all problems always happen only to people playing with uboot
Oct 12 17:48:08 * ww did flash u-boot earlier...
Oct 12 17:48:10 <Mammux72> tuukkah: yeah, I'll retrace my steps and see if I get it to work now
Oct 12 17:49:01 <ww> hrmmm...
Oct 12 17:49:40 <Mammux72> Yay it works!
Oct 12 17:49:57 <cesarb> ww: your flashing of uboot will not be the cause, if the problem happened after that command
Oct 12 17:50:16 <ww> yes, that seemed to go fine
Oct 12 17:50:18 <cesarb> ww: uboot commands still count as playing with uboot ;-)
Oct 12 17:50:22 <ww> using the latest 2007.08 snapshot
Oct 12 17:51:56 <ww> i've now replaced the battery and tried again to no avail...
Oct 12 17:52:15 <ww> i basically followed the instructions starting from 
Oct 12 17:52:17 <ww> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Boot_menu
Oct 12 17:53:18 <ww> but blindly wrote the rootfs which was too big...
Oct 12 17:55:43 <ww> cesarb: now if uboot ran forth...
Oct 12 17:56:14 <cesarb> ww: you should try having the battery out for more than half a day (someone said at least 13 hours)
Oct 12 17:57:22 <cesarb> ww: perhaps ext2load should have some more protections (hard to do, since it looks like it's *meant* to be able to scribble over anything...)
Oct 12 17:59:38 * cesarb is starting to think that at least half of the stuff on that wiki is kinda dangerous... on the "will brick your neo if you slip up" sense
Oct 12 18:00:38 <prpplague> as long as you have jtag you are good
Oct 12 18:02:30 <abraxa_> cesarb: Maybe marking those pages would be a good idea
Oct 12 18:04:26 <cesarb> abraxa_: well, as the one who started http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_disclaimers_in_articles, I'm not exactly fond of adding these markers on every page...
Oct 12 18:04:38 <cesarb> abraxa_: (even if it isn't wikipedia)
Oct 12 18:04:39 <Mammux72> I got networking to work now, and updated gsmd with ipkg (and rebooted). Unfortunately, I'm still unable to use gsm. Gsmd seems to start ok, but it never seems to get any response from the gsm modem (I'm looking at /tmp/gsm.log).
Oct 12 18:05:17 <ww> prpplague: indeed...
Oct 12 18:05:38 <Mammux72> I get 'submitting commnad ATZ, submitting AT+CFUN=1' etc, but no responses.
Oct 12 18:10:12 <Mammux72> .. actually, right after I've restarted gsmd, it works for the initial setup. But then if I connect with libgsm-tool and start doing things (even power-on power-off) there's no response.
Oct 12 18:38:26 <StylusEater_Work> hi der_io
Oct 12 18:38:35 <StylusEater_Work> hi El_Salvador
Oct 12 18:38:37 <der_io> hi StylusEater_Work 
Oct 12 18:41:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 928 has been created by Tuukka.Hastrup(AT)iki.fi
Oct 12 18:41:02 <cdbot2> * * implement AT command interrupt/cancel
Oct 12 18:41:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=928
Oct 12 18:58:03 <xx14> just got the phone here, can't seem to ssh in... is there a password?
Oct 12 18:58:19 <SpeedEvil> You need to install a rootfs and kernel
Oct 12 18:58:29 <xx14> did that, no problem
Oct 12 18:58:33 <SpeedEvil> see the URL on the little coaster that came with the phone
Oct 12 18:58:35 <SpeedEvil> ah.
Oct 12 18:58:38 <SpeedEvil> there is no password
Oct 12 18:58:41 <SpeedEvil> just hit enter
Oct 12 18:58:47 <SpeedEvil> do you have an ethernet interface?
Oct 12 18:58:56 <xx14> usbnet
Oct 12 18:59:11 <xx14> i can ping it, and i get a passwd prompt on ssh
Oct 12 18:59:17 <SpeedEvil> Something like:
Oct 12 18:59:22 <SpeedEvil> just hit enter
Oct 12 18:59:27 <xx14> doesn't work ;)
Oct 12 18:59:31 <SpeedEvil> at password prompt
Oct 12 18:59:42 <StylusEater_Work> hrm.
Oct 12 18:59:46 <SpeedEvil> you are sure you're sshing to the phone - 192.168.0.202 ?
Oct 12 18:59:57 <xx14> Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive)
Oct 12 19:00:03 <xx14> after 3 attempts
Oct 12 19:00:04 <SpeedEvil> Or is Odd.
Oct 12 19:00:06 <SpeedEvil> Odd
Oct 12 19:00:25 <cesarb> xx14: are you trying to login to the root user?
Oct 12 19:00:28 <xx14> actually it's on 192.168.0.200
Oct 12 19:00:30 <StylusEater_Work> did the image you flashed have a root pass set?
Oct 12 19:00:38 <SpeedEvil> XXLT: you're sshing to your local box
Oct 12 19:00:47 <SpeedEvil> XXLT: the phone is on 192.168.0.202
Oct 12 19:01:04 <SpeedEvil> (probably)
Oct 12 19:01:06 <xx14> oki... but the ping goes away when i unplug
Oct 12 19:01:10 <SpeedEvil> It will
Oct 12 19:01:14 <SpeedEvil> as the interface goes down
Oct 12 19:01:20 <SpeedEvil> and no longer has that IP
Oct 12 19:01:31 <xx14> ok, so why isn't there anything on 202?
Oct 12 19:02:17 <xx14> i thought the gentoo section of the manual was kindda short, never mentioned anything about 202
Oct 12 19:02:36 <SpeedEvil> ssh localhost
Oct 12 19:02:43 <SpeedEvil> do you get the same banner you got before?
Oct 12 19:02:59 <SpeedEvil> It should be ssh phone
Oct 12 19:02:59 <SpeedEvil> root@phone's password:
Oct 12 19:03:43 <xx14> yeahm ok that was the lockalhost ;))
Oct 12 19:03:50 <SpeedEvil> :)
Oct 12 19:04:07 <SpeedEvil> I wish I could say that you are clearly stupid.
Oct 12 19:04:16 <xx14> so why isn't there anything on 202
Oct 12 19:04:19 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, I know why this happens for a reason :)
Oct 12 19:04:21 <xx14> anything stopping you?
Oct 12 19:04:31 <xx14> ;)
Oct 12 19:04:41 <SpeedEvil> what happens when you ssh to 192.168.0.202 - with the cable plugged in?
Oct 12 19:05:41 <StylusEater_Work> how functional is the dialer/phone portion?
Oct 12 19:05:48 <XXLT> fn'SpeedEvil: XXLT: the phone is on 192.168.0.202
Oct 12 19:05:48 <xx14>  ping -I usb0  192.168.0.202
Oct 12 19:05:48 <xx14> PING 192.168.0.202 (192.168.0.202) from 192.168.0.200 usb0: 56(84) bytes of data.
Oct 12 19:05:48 <xx14> --- 192.168.0.202 ping statistics ---
Oct 12 19:05:48 <xx14> 7 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6010ms
Oct 12 19:06:01 <XXLT> i don't have that phone right now :)
Oct 12 19:06:01 <SpeedEvil> XXLT: I'd try:
Oct 12 19:06:05 <SpeedEvil> ifconfig usb0 down
Oct 12 19:06:12 <SpeedEvil> ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200
Oct 12 19:06:18 <SpeedEvil> ssh 192.168.0.202
Oct 12 19:06:21 <SpeedEvil> see what that does.
Oct 12 19:06:36 <buz> is there any cheap device with wifi  i could run openmoko on (as mp3 player on the hifi system that is ;)
Oct 12 19:07:00 <SpeedEvil> buz: Umm.
Oct 12 19:07:14 <buz> (200$ for a nokia 770 is not really cheap, no ;)
Oct 12 19:07:20 <SpeedEvil> I seem to recall somebody has run it on a router.
Oct 12 19:07:26 <SpeedEvil> (clearly without display)
Oct 12 19:07:35 <buz> well technically i could use an asus router with usb audio
Oct 12 19:07:41 <buz> but that sort of defeats the point
Oct 12 19:07:47 <buz> it not being able to control music ;)
Oct 12 19:08:09 <buz> palm tx isnt exactly cheap, either
Oct 12 19:08:34 <SpeedEvil> A router, with a IRDA thingy?
Oct 12 19:08:40 <xx14> SpeedEvil: it just hangs, the ssh 
Oct 12 19:08:40 <SpeedEvil> IR reciever rathre
Oct 12 19:08:44 <SpeedEvil> and a remote control
Oct 12 19:08:48 <SpeedEvil> XXLT: is the phone alive?
Oct 12 19:08:55 <buz> still not very useful to navigate a huge collection
Oct 12 19:08:57 <SpeedEvil> xx14: if you press the screen
Oct 12 19:09:00 <buz> i'd rather use an old ipod then ;)
Oct 12 19:09:03 <xx14> hai
Oct 12 19:09:13 <buz> of which i actually have one ;)
Oct 12 19:09:26 <buz> maybe i should just fill that one up ;)
Oct 12 19:09:35 <xx14> yeah, it's interactive
Oct 12 19:09:39 <buz> not quite as neat but works wihtout server being on
Oct 12 19:10:45 <SpeedEvil> xx14: ssh simply does nothing and hangs?
Oct 12 19:10:51 <xx14> yep
Oct 12 19:10:55 <SpeedEvil> xx14: what does ssh -v do?
Oct 12 19:11:24 <xx14> i have the august snapshot images of kernel and root, are those ok?
Oct 12 19:11:53 <xx14> debug1: Connecting to 192.168.0.202 [192.168.0.202] port 22.
Oct 12 19:11:53 <xx14> debug1: connect to address 192.168.0.202 port 22: No route to host
Oct 12 19:12:16 <SpeedEvil> xx14: that's odd.
Oct 12 19:12:44 <xx14> must have messed up the configuration in some way
Oct 12 19:13:48 <xx14> tadaa, im in
Oct 12 19:13:56 <SpeedEvil> :)
Oct 12 19:14:47 <xx14> it  needed a route
Oct 12 19:15:12 <xx14> route add 192.168.0.202 usb0    did the trick
Oct 12 19:19:20 <xx14> so what's next? ipkg update?
Oct 12 19:19:49 <Ghiottone> hello!
Oct 12 19:31:35 <moprilo> hey guys.. probably everyone comes here n asks the same thing..  Is it out there.. (buyable) a openmoko neo with wifi?
Oct 12 19:31:48 <mjr> No
Oct 12 19:31:54 <cjb_ie> december-ish
Oct 12 19:32:01 <mjr> and that indeed would be the GTA02, which is referenced to in the topic
Oct 12 19:32:15 <moprilo> cool
Oct 12 19:32:24 <moprilo> can i do pree orders? jeje
Oct 12 19:32:56 <moprilo> i would definately would buy the current one, but i'm craving wifi on my phone
Oct 12 19:33:41 <ozarka> First rule of #openmoko, don't talk abut GTA02!
Oct 12 19:33:57 <buz> unless you found a way to add that damn V8, that is
Oct 12 19:34:38 <buz> i'm still hoping for a GTA02 price drop
Oct 12 19:35:01 <ozarka> The Neo needs wifi.  Three hours of battery life is too much.  :-)
Oct 12 19:35:07 <prpplague> buz: "damn V8" ?
Oct 12 19:35:15 <buz> !V8
Oct 12 19:35:24 <buz> mhh that joke must be dead then
Oct 12 19:35:39 <buz> considering you can get a sony p1i for less than 450$, that seems a bit too much
Oct 12 19:36:16 <prpplague> buz: must be, since i have no clue what you are refering to
Oct 12 19:36:34 <mjr> ozarka, :)
Oct 12 19:36:48 <buz> back in the days, people would come here, clamoring for this and that (mostly wifi and cam) which lead some people to suggest the neo would be doomed without a V8
Oct 12 19:37:34 <prpplague> buz: V8 == car engine ?
Oct 12 19:38:02 <buz> yes
Oct 12 19:38:11 <prpplague> ahh
Oct 12 19:38:13 <ozarka> GTA02 is a waste.  I'm waiting for GTA03:  wifi, gps, 8 megapixel camera, Windows Mobile 7.
Oct 12 19:38:14 <buz> because, obviously, every phone needs one
Oct 12 19:39:07 * mwester wants the GTA04!   3.2 GHz clock, quad-core, 4GB ram, 1280x1024 dual displays, runs Windows Vista!
Oct 12 19:39:19 <guaqua> GTA05 with cell processor
Oct 12 19:39:24 <guaqua> nuff said ;)
Oct 12 19:39:32 <buz> lol
Oct 12 19:39:48 <buz> i rather get power6 in my mocket
Oct 12 19:39:50 <buz> pocket
Oct 12 19:40:22 <buz> gta03 with qwerty and cam would be the definite phone
Oct 12 19:40:52 <buz> essentially a a htc vox running linux and with vga display ;)
Oct 12 19:41:18 <xx14> where should the nameserver in resolv.conf point to?
Oct 12 19:41:34 <juri_> personally, i think we should improve on the functionality of the n770/n800, and release a neo as a nokia replacement, with built-in phone. ;P
Oct 12 19:42:07 <buz> the nX are too big for a phone
Oct 12 19:42:20 <emdete> could someone do me a favor? i changed my config alot. how does dns work in the original image? ppp/ip-up requires /etc/resolv.conf to be a symllink... is that so? can someone tell me what `ls -l /etc/resolv.conf` says?
Oct 12 19:42:21 <mwester> xx14: to your nameserver -- same one as the host on the other end of the USB cable, usually.
Oct 12 19:42:34 <juri_> buz: not to me. i already carry a n770 around with me everywhere.
Oct 12 19:42:46 <buz> most people would say neo is too big, already
Oct 12 19:42:48 <emdete> xx14: this is funny :D
Oct 12 19:42:56 <juri_> buz: people are strange. :)
Oct 12 19:43:05 <mwester> emdete:  There is no /etc/resolv.conf AFAIK, and I fixed it by creating it -- no symlinks involved.
Oct 12 19:43:10 <buz> a square neo with 3,8" vga would be ideal
Oct 12 19:43:30 <buz> or maybe not square ;)
Oct 12 19:43:32 <emdete> mwester: you need it to symlink to /var/run/resolv.conf to make ppp work
Oct 12 19:43:38 <Elrond> buz - The neo is already quite big for a phone.
Oct 12 19:43:50 <buz> Elrond: i just said that 
Oct 12 19:44:01 <emdete> buz: you may be right - did you see a iphone touch? 
Oct 12 19:44:03 <Elrond> Huh, yeah.
Oct 12 19:44:07 <Elrond> My mum said the same.
Oct 12 19:44:12 <buz> once
Oct 12 19:44:15 * mwester wonders at what point people will realize that many of the things they want from the next neos describe small laptops and tablet PCs...
Oct 12 19:44:27 <buz> it looks nifty, but the closedness ensures i will never buy one
Oct 12 19:44:41 <buz> i have a tablet pc, and let me tell you, it's entirely useless
Oct 12 19:44:45 <ozarka> I don't want a tablet PC for a phone.
Oct 12 19:44:55 <buz> you dont want a tabletpc. full stop.
Oct 12 19:45:08 <juri_> i like my nokia. subtablet works.
Oct 12 19:45:09 <emdete> mwester: so in the original image there is no /etc/resolv.conf? shure?
Oct 12 19:45:10 <ozarka> I just want a phone that can host my e-commerce web site... and take good pictures.
Oct 12 19:45:15 <ozarka> Is that too much to ask?
Oct 12 19:45:15 <xx14> mwester: didn't seem to work
Oct 12 19:46:10 <mwester> ozarka:  ;)  Should it keep your coffee warm, too?
Oct 12 19:46:24 <buz> mwester it would do that, naturally
Oct 12 19:46:37 <ozarka> Won't need to change the current design.  :-)
Oct 12 19:46:44 <ozarka> That thing stays pretty warm.
Oct 12 19:46:47 <juri_> it should make pies. the world will be saved by pies.
Oct 12 19:47:02 <ozarka> I had it in it's little pouch.  Can it overheat and burn up?  Seriously.
Oct 12 19:48:10 <emdete> i did a test today: i used gprs - with it switched on the neo had battery for less than an hour. steady-on seems to be a no-go for the neo
Oct 12 19:48:13 <Elrond> GTA05 will hopefully have a helix-gps antenna ;o)
Oct 12 19:48:47 <tuukkah> emdete, you can see it missing here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/rootfs/etc/
Oct 12 19:49:20 <emdete> tuukkah: thnx - didn't know that :)
Oct 12 19:49:49 <tuukkah> emdete, re gprs, that's somewhat of an issue with other devices too
Oct 12 19:50:05 <mjr> emdete, just switched on or doing something?
Oct 12 19:50:23 <tuukkah> there are some kind of power management modes for gprs too, perhaps we can get a better result with them
Oct 12 19:50:41 <emdete> tuukkah: but it's not that bad. i ported a funny service to the neo and made gprs reliable. i went out for lunch and showed it to friend. after lunch the neo was dead... very, very short. 
Oct 12 19:50:43 <mjr> also, still, the cpu running full tilt with all the other crap will show
Oct 12 19:51:01 <emdete> tuukkah: i have this expirience with umts/hsdpa too but not with gsm
Oct 12 19:52:05 <buz> i wonder how long wifi will live
Oct 12 19:52:20 <emdete> buz: wifi is one of the worst ideas for the neo
Oct 12 19:52:38 <emdete> instead using bt/pan would be sufficient i think
Oct 12 19:52:39 <mjr> at least gta02 will have a sturdier battery as well :]
Oct 12 19:52:55 <mjr> yeah, I'll likely use bt networking at home even with the gta02
Oct 12 19:52:55 <buz> bt/pan generally is not available on the road
Oct 12 19:52:56 <buz> wifi is
Oct 12 19:53:07 <xx14> don't see any network form neo beyond the host..
Oct 12 19:53:10 <emdete> how much?
Oct 12 19:56:20 <sbeh> hrhr
Oct 12 19:56:52 <buz> netbsd for neo
Oct 12 19:57:09 <sbeh> would be nice
Oct 12 19:57:10 <buz> i wonder if someone will port openbsd so the truly paranoid can finally have a phone ;)
Oct 12 19:57:17 <ckuethe> i'm working on it
Oct 12 19:57:23 <ckuethe> so is ian@ and ray@
Oct 12 19:57:24 <drath> will the gta02 run XP Embedded?
Oct 12 19:57:33 <buz> xp embedded doesnt run on arm 
Oct 12 19:57:37 <ckuethe> drahn@ will probably be helpful too
Oct 12 19:57:39 <drath> d'oh
Oct 12 19:57:43 <sbeh> xp embedded does run.
Oct 12 19:57:45 <sbeh> +not
Oct 12 19:58:03 <drath> yeah, should've asked for CE then, I guess ;)
Oct 12 19:58:04 <buz> you might be able to get win ce running on neo
Oct 12 19:58:12 <buz> if you have access to the source
Oct 12 19:58:15 <ckuethe> but from the look of the dmesg, the neo looks a lot like a zaurus
Oct 12 19:58:16 <sbeh> haha
Oct 12 19:58:36 <buz> or maybe you could get xp embedded to "run" in qemu
Oct 12 19:58:41 <ckuethe> so adapting the openbsd zaurus port to openmoko shouldn't be an insurmountable task
Oct 12 19:59:00 <cesarb> buz: qemu in a neo would probably run at less than 1 MIPS
Oct 12 19:59:30 <buz> there's a a reason for the " around run ;)
Oct 12 20:00:03 <cesarb> ckuethe: the neo is a fairly standard ARM thingy... the only problematic part would be the drivers for things like the sound, gsm, gps...
Oct 12 20:00:19 <buz> gsm is standard at interface i believe
Oct 12 20:00:19 <ckuethe> gsm is easy - gsmd
Oct 12 20:00:27 <ckuethe> it looks like a modem on the com port
Oct 12 20:00:38 <ckuethe> sound, yeah, someone's gonna have to write a driver for that
Oct 12 20:00:42 <ckuethe> gps... we'll se
Oct 12 20:00:51 <buz> noooow, solaris on a phone...
Oct 12 20:00:54 <ckuethe> may have to just do up a port of the HH software
Oct 12 20:01:16 <ckuethe> or wait for a new firmware-based device to appear, in which case it looks just like a com port
Oct 12 20:01:55 <buz> one would think that decision was made by now...
Oct 12 20:03:03 <Ghiottone> hey tuukkah 
Oct 12 20:03:53 <tuukkah> hi Ghiottone!
Oct 12 20:05:05 <Ghiottone> what news?
Oct 12 20:15:28 <Marcel_M> orf1
Oct 12 20:15:34 <Marcel_M> ups sorry
Oct 12 20:21:17 <cesarb> ckuethe: gsm is easy, sure, but it's not only gsmd... you also have to power on the modem via the gpio
Oct 12 21:09:07 <hhf423> nabend
Oct 12 21:10:10 <hhf423> the good news is that I got a new SIM card from eplus which is now working in Neo1973
Oct 12 21:20:35 <Ghiottone> hey hhf423 
Oct 12 21:20:45 <hhf423> hi Ghiottone 
Oct 12 21:20:53 <hhf423> hows things?
Oct 12 21:21:06 <hhf423> anything new happened this week?
Oct 12 21:21:35 <Ghiottone> yeah I spent it working on my new laptop
Oct 12 21:21:49 <Ghiottone> new I should have plenty of horse power to compile openmoko :)
Oct 12 21:22:43 <Ghiottone> it's good. but linux is hard to put on newest machines
Oct 12 21:24:13 <Ghiottone> what about you?
Oct 12 21:26:54 <juri_> its less difficult when you can write your own device drivers. snap to it! :)
Oct 12 21:27:28 <hhf423> trying to activate my new sim, but one thing is clear: the neo likes it :-)
Oct 12 21:28:03 <hhf423> new laptop sounds nice
Oct 12 21:28:24 <hhf423> but no news on Neo GPS?
Oct 12 21:29:45 <mwester> hehe!
Oct 12 21:30:06 <mwester> Nope.  Utter and total silence on the GPS...
Oct 12 21:30:09 <cesarb> juri_: writing your own device driver takes time (I should know, I did that last year)
Oct 12 21:30:20 <mwester> Rather like the SIM and 850MHz issue.
Oct 12 21:32:42 <Ghiottone> I have found that mtd drivers don't generate /proc/diskstats statistics. I've tried to figure out what it needs to be done to fix it but could not find any info
Oct 12 21:32:52 <Ghiottone> does anyone have any tip?
Oct 12 21:33:13 <hhf423> oooh, this looks cool, whats it? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/79bc0dce02527a77d0cf2cc94266e69c.png
Oct 12 21:33:46 <mwester> Simcity clone?
Oct 12 21:34:13 <pH5> transport tycoon
Oct 12 21:34:22 <juri_> cesarb: but its fun, right?
Oct 12 21:34:23 <juri_> :)
Oct 12 21:34:24 <hhf423> is there a ipkg?
Oct 12 21:35:49 <Ghiottone> openttd
Oct 12 21:35:58 <Ghiottone> I made one IIRC
Oct 12 21:36:24 <hhf423> cool
Oct 12 21:36:31 <hhf423> and wtf is this? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0d4524f651b8bddea6dd103b694858de.png
Oct 12 21:36:58 <mwester> It is That Which Does Not Exist.
Oct 12 21:37:25 <mwester> Data gathered using the forbidden gllin driver ;)
Oct 12 21:37:35 <hhf423> in chroot?
Oct 12 21:37:40 <Ghiottone> mokostats ?
Oct 12 21:37:54 <mwester> I would imagine, unless someone reverse-engineered the driver.
Oct 12 21:38:29 <hhf423> so the screenshot is what? a tease?
Oct 12 21:39:57 <Ghiottone> I heard that mokostats has been used with bluetooth gps
Oct 12 21:40:30 <hhf423> ah, that could be an explanation. quite likely
Oct 12 21:47:06 <berkus> crap.. i cracked debugboard flex cable connector :\
Oct 12 21:49:34 <hhf423> hard to repair?
Oct 12 21:49:43 <SpeedEvil> Very.
Oct 12 21:49:49 <SpeedEvil> Flex connectors are bastards.
Oct 12 21:50:20 <Writchie|away> they are not designed for repetitive use
Oct 12 21:50:28 <SpeedEvil> The basic idea is to shave off the top coating, expose the copper, and solder.
Oct 12 21:53:59 <cjb_ie> manually-applied solder's never as flexible as the barely-tinned layer the factory puts on though.
Oct 12 21:54:32 <SpeedEvil> No.
Oct 12 21:54:41 <cjb_ie> though it's possible to help by wicking most of it back off again after you've put it on
Oct 12 21:54:42 <SpeedEvil> If combined with a rigidiser, it works OK though.
Oct 12 21:54:54 <SpeedEvil> I repaired a laptop HD cable after I ripped it.
Oct 12 21:55:29 <cjb_ie> heh, i soldered a full-size IDE cable onto the back of a 2.5" IDE connector on a flex cable :-)
Oct 12 21:55:49 <cjb_ie> just so i could hook up a cd drive to the laptop to install linux on it
Oct 12 21:55:56 <SpeedEvil> This was onto a 100 pin connector on the motherboard.
Oct 12 21:56:11 <cjb_ie> oooh, those things are _horribly_ fine pitch
Oct 12 21:56:27 <SpeedEvil> It also had other stuff
Oct 12 21:56:31 <cjb_ie> a mate of mine did something even more horrid though, to rescue a botched rev 1 pcb layout
Oct 12 21:57:02 <cjb_ie> 132-pin tqfp - pin 1 was halfway along a side... the library part we used on the pcb had it at a corner
Oct 12 21:57:31 <cjb_ie> we didn't discover this till after the PCB got manufactured.
Oct 12 21:57:39 <SpeedEvil> I've seen one of those.
Oct 12 21:57:48 <SpeedEvil> explosion of wirewrap wire.
Oct 12 21:58:04 <cjb_ie> yup
Oct 12 21:58:08 <bewandered> has anyone else experienced problems getting gta01 to register on the network?
Oct 12 21:58:15 <SpeedEvil> Many pwople.
Oct 12 21:58:23 <SpeedEvil> Are you in the US on AT&T?
Oct 12 21:58:30 <bewandered> US on Tmobile
Oct 12 21:58:49 <cjb_ie> it helped a lot that we etched a little square PCB to sit the IC on, so we weren't soldering wires straight to it.
Oct 12 21:58:53 <bewandered> from libgsmd-tool:
Oct 12 21:59:20 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil: anyway, it's pleasing to know this happens to others
Oct 12 21:59:29 <cjb_ie> (unless you saw it anywhere near cork, ireland...)
Oct 12 21:59:31 <bewandered> O
Oct 12 21:59:31 <bewandered> # # Power-On
Oct 12 21:59:31 <bewandered> r
Oct 12 21:59:31 <bewandered> # Register
Oct 12 21:59:31 <bewandered> ERROR reding from gsm_fd
Oct 12 21:59:36 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: this was actually a 60Mb hard drive.
Oct 12 21:59:48 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: that I got when RoDime shut.
Oct 12 21:59:50 <SpeedEvil> Oops.
Oct 12 22:00:01 <SpeedEvil> Or was it RoDime
Oct 12 22:00:11 <SpeedEvil> It was either RoDime or Myrica
Oct 12 22:00:21 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil: ah, so you didn't get to experience the joy of seeing the explosion take place then :)
Oct 12 22:00:23 <SpeedEvil> Which was clearly a test unit - but worked.
Oct 12 22:00:32 <SpeedEvil> So I used it for a couple of years.
Oct 12 22:00:40 <SpeedEvil> (this was back when 60Mb was significant)
Oct 12 22:01:10 <cjb_ie> we kept that board around to remind us to check the damn library parts before sending the gerbers off
Oct 12 22:01:42 <cjb_ie> (as i recall, on the first attempt we had an off-by-one error on the wire-wrap explosion)
Oct 12 22:01:44 <bewandered> ooo looks like gsmd died, too
Oct 12 22:02:26 <cjb_ie> and there were a few bridges and dry joints to catch too, of course, once we got all the wires in the right places.
Oct 12 22:03:52 <cjb_ie> that was a fun prototype
Oct 12 22:05:27 * cesarb braces for the netsplit
Oct 12 22:08:13 <mwester> bewandered:  How current is your image?
Oct 12 22:08:25 <bewandered> the latest i could get last night
Oct 12 22:08:37 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: I want to make a low-end wirebonder. 
Oct 12 22:08:42 <bewandered> how can i check the rev from the phone?
Oct 12 22:08:56 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: Ombondo!
Oct 12 22:09:16 <bewandered> cat /etc/version says:
Oct 12 22:09:23 <bewandered> 200708310939
Oct 12 22:09:41 <bewandered> i'm thinking there may be a hardware problem
Oct 12 22:09:45 <mwester> No.
Oct 12 22:09:54 <bewandered> Fri Oct 12 22:07:29 2007 <8> gsmd.c:82:alive_tmr_cb() modem dead!
Oct 12 22:10:10 <berkus> SpeedEvil: fortunately, the connector had one side of it still intact, so i managed to push it back and lock. no way i'm gonna unplug the flex cable from there any time soon :)
Oct 12 22:10:20 <mwester> I think you need a newer image.  gsmd is still buggy, but a lot of problems have been solved since August.
Oct 12 22:10:32 <bewandered> ok.
Oct 12 22:10:44 <macdigas> What about this one: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666
Oct 12 22:10:45 <macdigas> ?
Oct 12 22:10:49 <bewandered> that seemed to be the latest image the Flasher program found
Oct 12 22:11:22 <mwester> Check the wiki for feeds, there are alternate feeds that are much more up-to-date.
Oct 12 22:11:31 <bewandered> ahhh OK, thanks
Oct 12 22:11:48 <mwester> Perhaps one of the lurkers here might know of a recent feed??  (I haven't updated mine for a few days now)
Oct 12 22:20:43 * Writchie hail caesar
Oct 12 22:23:24 <cesarb> Writchie: didn't see the global notice?
Oct 12 22:23:52 <Writchie> nope
Oct 12 22:24:04 <cesarb> [19:04:49] [Notificar] -dmwaters- {global notice} Hi all, our main US hub is about to go down for some upgrading. This will cause some major splitting. We will work to get things back together as quickly as possible. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
Oct 12 22:24:28 <cesarb> [19:05:27] * cesarb braces for the netsplit
Oct 12 22:25:10 <bewandered> anyone here know if it's required to flash u0boot when you flash the kernel and rootfs?
Oct 12 22:26:03 <abraxa_> bewandered: It's not
Oct 12 22:26:13 <Writchie> bewandered: not necessary except in very unusual case
Oct 12 22:26:17 <bewandered> thanks :)
Oct 12 22:26:34 <berkus> bewandered: wiki says only if your new rootfs is smaller than the old one (?)
Oct 12 22:26:48 <bewandered> ok
Oct 12 22:26:53 <bewandered> i'm pretty sure it's bigger
Oct 12 22:27:08 <berkus> where'd i put line to restart gsmd during startup?
Oct 12 22:27:31 <abraxa_> berkus: That's not flashing u-boot - that's doing a "nand erase rootfs" from within u-boot
Oct 12 22:27:43 <Writchie> bewandered: if you have an older u-boot you need to do erase nand rootfs or erase nand kernel respectively 
Oct 12 22:28:05 <Writchie> s/or/and or/
Oct 12 22:28:15 <bewandered> ok
Oct 12 22:28:38 <berkus> abraxa_: um, well, yes. you don't need to reflash u-boot usually.
Oct 12 22:28:48 <apt> Writchie meant: bewandered: if you have an older u-boot you need to do erase nand rootfs and or erase nand kernel respectively 
Oct 12 22:29:54 <SpeedEvil> and to paraphrase Python: 'nand erase' is right out.
Oct 12 22:29:59 <bewandered> U-boot 1.2.0-moko9_r0_${biglonghexstring}_0_2040
Oct 12 22:30:34 <abraxa_> bewandered: You want to flash that? Why?
Oct 12 22:30:48 <bewandered> I want to flash the rootfs and kernel.
Oct 12 22:30:58 <abraxa_> Then you don't need u-boot :)
Oct 12 22:31:03 <bewandered> that's the current U-boot rev
Oct 12 22:32:51 <bewandered> ok:)
Oct 12 22:33:42 <Writchie> i'm not sure at which rev the nand erase rootfs  became no longer required. 
Oct 12 22:33:47 <bewandered> yay for flashing!
Oct 12 22:33:48 <abraxa_> bewandered: Are you flashing a virgin device that you purchased or does it already have a kernel/rootfs?
Oct 12 22:34:04 <bewandered> i have flashed it once before now.
Oct 12 22:34:23 <bewandered> so it already has kernel and rootfs
Oct 12 22:34:45 <bewandered> but i'd like to try some dev images to see if i can get GSM working.
Oct 12 22:34:53 <abraxa_> ohh okay - in that case you *might* want to issue the "nand erase rootfs" command on the u-boot console before flashing the rootfs, just to make sure
Oct 12 22:35:00 <bewandered> too late :)
Oct 12 22:35:07 <Writchie> it sure would nice if there were known good and tested official u-boot images and recommendations for those without debug boards. 
Oct 12 22:35:31 <abraxa_> Writchie: Sounds like an idea for the wiki, even if it's not "official"
Oct 12 22:35:50 <Writchie> i'd be reluctant to recommend. that's an openmoko task really
Oct 12 22:36:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 929 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com
Oct 12 22:36:01 <cdbot2> * * GConf setting for orientation
Oct 12 22:36:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=929
Oct 12 22:36:08 <abraxa_> Hmm, I suppose so...
Oct 12 22:36:38 <Writchie> the original image is fine as long as you do the nand erase rootfs thing. 
Oct 12 22:37:00 <Writchie> the latest 12 fixed some charging issues but has not been tested enuf yet to recommend.
Oct 12 22:37:11 <Henryk> I've adopted issuing "nand erase clean rootfs" before each rootfs flash as a kind of cargo cult. Not sure whether it's necessary, but sure doesn't do any harm.
Oct 12 22:37:39 <Writchie> i do the same also
Oct 12 22:38:04 <Writchie> nand erase really needs a warning 
Oct 12 22:38:21 <Writchie> since its rm -rf /
Oct 12 22:38:52 <Writchie> actucally worse, i guess more like a dd
Oct 12 22:39:10 <Henryk> hmm, it has a warning? at least last time I forgot to type "rootfs" it asked whether I was really sure
Oct 12 22:39:34 <Writchie> unfortunately, that version is ok
Oct 12 22:39:45 <Writchie> its the other versions that have no warning
Oct 12 22:40:17 <Writchie> i also don't like hidden environment variables
Oct 12 22:40:37 <Writchie> or pseduo environment variables or whatever
Oct 12 22:51:57 <cesarb> Writchie: the "august snapshot" has doesn't need nand erase rootfs and is very well-tested
Oct 12 22:54:08 <Writchie> cesarb: that's good to know. but someone without a debug board probably ought not to upgrade u-boot unless the upgrade is necessary rather than just convenient. 
Oct 12 22:54:23 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/10/13/neod-hacking-day/
Oct 12 22:54:46 <hrw> August snapshot u-boot is known to be working
Oct 12 22:54:57 <hrw> I upgraded my Neo bv4 to it and it is working
Oct 12 22:55:21 <cesarb> Writchie: well, I'd say lowering the chance of typing "nand erase" by accident is good, but only if you can get to a debug board with perhaps a 2-hour bus ride max
Oct 12 22:55:58 <Writchie> cesarb: it's good for sure - but i wouldn't upgrade just for that. 
Oct 12 22:56:12 <Writchie> but that's just me. 
Oct 12 22:56:57 <Writchie> there are now changes that fix the charge rate to 100ma - these will probably be worth it after some testing
Oct 12 22:57:10 <bewandered> hmm.
Oct 12 22:57:23 <bewandered> with new kernel and root fs, still seem to be having gsm troubles:
Oct 12 22:57:30 <cesarb> Writchie: I will either wait until the next official snapshot or start hacking uboot by myself (and thus need to flash my own)
Oct 12 22:57:31 <bewandered> Fri Oct 12 22:56:11 2007 <1> usock.c:254:phone_powerup_cb() Radio power-up faile
Oct 12 22:57:31 <bewandered> d
Oct 12 22:57:42 <cesarb> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 <- already starting to hack on uboot
Oct 12 22:58:27 <Writchie> cesarb: there may also be some usb dfu problems
Oct 12 22:58:41 <Writchie> these could be in dfu-util or u-boot, i'm not sure. 
Oct 12 22:58:53 <Writchie> i may look into them next week. 
Oct 12 22:59:26 <Writchie> try to find out why linux in vmware doesn't do download/upload
Oct 12 23:00:08 <cesarb> Writchie: it might be uboot, it might be dfu-util, or it might be _vmware_
Oct 12 23:00:17 <cesarb> Writchie: and it's more probable it's vmware
Oct 12 23:00:39 <Writchie> i'm not so sure since everything else works and its a lot more complicated than dfu
Oct 12 23:01:29 <bewandered> are the "Bad block table found at page" errors anything to be concerned about?
Oct 12 23:01:30 <Writchie> but of course, it could be vmware and that means game over. 
Oct 12 23:01:33 <bewandered> (from dmesg)
Oct 12 23:02:24 <Writchie> bewandered: what is the full message?
Oct 12 23:02:43 <bewandered> <7>Bad block table found at page 131040, version 0x01
Oct 12 23:02:47 <bewandered> <7>Bad block table found at page 131008, version 0x01
Oct 12 23:02:49 <bewandered> jsut those two
Oct 12 23:03:09 <Writchie> those are not errors AFAIK
Oct 12 23:03:16 <bewandered> thx
Oct 12 23:04:01 <cesarb> bewandered: it's quite normal to find a bad block table... it would be strange not to find it (there are two copies, btw)
Oct 12 23:04:14 <bewandered> ok
Oct 12 23:04:18 <bewandered> yay i have pgrep now!
Oct 12 23:04:41 <cesarb> bewandered: it's also quite normal to find four "fake" bad blocks at the end of the device (they are not really bad blocks -- they have the bad block table)
Oct 12 23:05:01 <bewandered> ah, i see
Oct 12 23:08:51 <cesarb> bewandered: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks <- more than you'll ever want to know on the subject
Oct 12 23:09:39 <bewandered> wow, that's a loud startup noise.
Oct 12 23:09:54 <bewandered> hehe thx
Oct 12 23:12:58 <berkus> bewandered: you'll get tired of it quickly when you have to boot your neo for twelve thousand times more :)
Oct 12 23:13:24 <bewandered> heheh
Oct 12 23:13:36 <bewandered> so the icons along the upper right disappeared
Oct 12 23:13:46 <bewandered> is taht correct?
Oct 12 23:13:51 <berkus> yeah. i didn't get answer to that
Oct 12 23:13:51 <cesarb> bewandered: that's normal
Oct 12 23:13:58 <cesarb> bewandered: they crash like all the time
Oct 12 23:14:03 <bewandered> k
Oct 12 23:14:12 <cesarb> bewandered: just shrug and reboot (or if you know the tricks restart them)
Oct 12 23:15:09 <cesarb> bewandered: also don't get surprised if gsmd misbehaves, it does that all the time... just shrug and restart it by hand
Oct 12 23:15:32 <bewandered> k
Oct 12 23:15:44 <bewandered> i'm still having trouble with it registering.
Oct 12 23:15:50 <bewandered> i'm going to try a different SIM
Oct 12 23:17:01 <cesarb> bewandered: if it's GSM850, forget it, it won't work. It also doesn't work well with some newer SIMs
Oct 12 23:17:16 <cesarb> bewandered: there are rumors a fix is being prepared
Oct 12 23:17:36 <bewandered> the one that isn't working is almost 5 years old.
Oct 12 23:17:54 <bewandered> the one i'm trying now is about 1.5 years old.
Oct 12 23:17:58 <bewandered> both are from Tmobile.
Oct 12 23:18:41 <bewandered> this August snapshot looks wonderful.
Oct 12 23:18:50 <bewandered> In terms of UI
Oct 12 23:18:56 <Henryk> ack
Oct 12 23:20:04 <hrw> bewandered: as long as you do not forget about 'ipkg update;ipkg upgrade' to newest software
Oct 12 23:20:33 <cesarb> hrw: doing that will only give him a mismatched set of kernel modules
Oct 12 23:20:34 <bewandered> ok, thx
Oct 12 23:20:55 <hrw> cesarb: oops. 
Oct 12 23:21:09 * hrw installed own build
Oct 12 23:21:27 <hrw> and some software I have in newer versions then OpenMoko provides
Oct 12 23:23:36 <cjb> Hi!  Where should I look for a recent working jffs2 image?
Oct 12 23:24:15 <cjb> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ only seems to have releases.
Oct 12 23:25:58 <bewandered> sweet, i have signal
Oct 12 23:26:12 <bewandered> for the very first time :)
Oct 12 23:27:07 <Henryk> What! Main screen turn on.
Oct 12 23:30:46 <cesarb> Henryk: too soon: http://xkcd.com/286/
Oct 12 23:31:22 <bewandered> heheh
Oct 12 23:33:47 <Henryk> cesarb: also applicable: http://xkcd.com/307/
Oct 12 23:34:40 <hrw> bye
Oct 12 23:50:07 <biertrinken> hi
Oct 13 00:42:24 <dotmef> hey everyone
Oct 13 00:42:38 <dotmef> is WebKit b0rked or am I doing something wrong?
Oct 13 00:44:21 <cesarb> dotmef: it was broken for me earlier this week until I nuked the whole build
Oct 13 00:44:36 <cesarb> dotmef: then midori started being the broken one... with almost the same webkit error
Oct 13 00:44:38 <dotmef> cesarb: ah - one of those issues. thanks
Oct 13 00:44:55 <cesarb> dotmef: but at least midori is in feeds, not in image
Oct 13 00:46:06 * dotmef is not looking forward to another 8 hour build
Oct 13 00:58:42 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r3155 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-core.patch: GTA02: add missing GPIO definitions for GTA02v1 .. GTA02v4
Oct 13 00:59:20 <rwhitby> hmm - gta02v4
Oct 13 01:01:54 <cb22> i just got a few iphones to play with... how exactly does it do the orientation trick?
Oct 13 01:02:23 <raster> with chickens
Oct 13 01:02:27 <raster> and sacrifices
Oct 13 01:02:37 <cb22> thought so
Oct 13 01:05:46 <cesarb> rwhitby: wasn't v3 added like today or yesterday?
Oct 13 01:05:51 <cesarb> rwhitby: that's some churn here
Oct 13 01:08:58 <rwhitby> cesarb: I'm hoping v4 means P0 is soon
Oct 13 01:09:32 <cesarb> rwhitby: I think it means nothing at all other than "new pcb revision"
Oct 13 01:10:11 * cb22 wonders if they have decided on a gps chipset yet
Oct 13 01:10:19 * cesarb seriously hopes we won't have a "wifid" to try to bash in shape and fail
Oct 13 01:10:40 <cesarb> cb22: hm, that could explain v3 and v4 being close together... two different chips...
Oct 13 01:10:48 <cesarb> cb22: sort of in paralell
Oct 13 01:10:56 <cb22> cesarb, true
Oct 13 01:11:16 <cesarb> cb22: OTOH, it could also be explained by an exploding capacitor
Oct 13 01:11:38 <cb22> well, at least thats plausible :)
Oct 13 01:12:01 * cb22 has just been playing with some iphones... not bad
Oct 13 01:12:16 <cb22> although i think compiz-fusion-mobile would rape it :)
Oct 13 01:13:00 * cb22 imagines a cube on his phone
Oct 13 01:13:10 <cb22> powered by accelerometers
Oct 13 01:13:10 <daMaestro> +1
Oct 13 01:13:14 <daMaestro> +10
Oct 13 01:13:16 <daMaestro> ;-)
Oct 13 01:13:18 <cb22> hehe
Oct 13 01:13:53 <cb22> dont suppose anyone has actually used the smedia chip before
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 13 02:59:56 2007