**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 16 02:59:57 2007 Oct 16 02:59:58 Writchie: Bangalore, Airtel Mobile Oct 16 03:00:01 raddy: IIRC most of India is gsm 900 Oct 16 03:00:18 Writchie: yup Oct 16 03:01:01 gsm 900 should work fine indoors and outdoors Oct 16 03:01:20 what do you mean by call stability? Oct 16 03:01:41 Writchie : not stable, some time detects calls, some time not, some times no-network Oct 16 03:01:56 how far are you from tower? Oct 16 03:01:57 Writchie: in-call quality is fine though Oct 16 03:02:40 Writchie: i dunno the exact distance, but every other phones can detect the signal Oct 16 03:03:09 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/f18c4e094a52684055e3ec7d7b28dfbb.png Oct 16 03:03:21 GTA01 switched in QVGA mode with QVGA theme :) Oct 16 03:03:23 Writchie: it might be an Qtopia bug, can you suggest good recent, kernel, rootfs combo Oct 16 03:04:11 raddy: no - I still do most of my testing from command line - although qtopia works reasonably well. Oct 16 03:04:47 I am on gsm 1900 in a semi-marginal service area - neo works similar to most other tri-band phones Oct 16 03:05:22 however, not as good as a few nokia models Oct 16 03:05:51 Writchie: Me too don't have Nokia though Oct 16 03:14:23 hi again, downloading the latest non-"scaredycat" image now (what's the difference btw?) Oct 16 03:15:51 Quinn_Storm: Hi, are you the beryl fame? Oct 16 03:15:55 yep Oct 16 03:16:03 (that's part of how I got my neo) Oct 16 03:16:34 Quinn_Storm: Ohh, cool, are you using, Qtopia, or Openmoko? Oct 16 03:16:56 I'm trying to get anything to work, qtopia *almost* works but fails, I'm going back to the latest OM image Oct 16 03:17:38 Quinn_Storm: can you suggest a good openmoko kernel, rootfs combo? Oct 16 03:17:47 raddy: I'm *not* the person to ask about that Oct 16 03:18:05 Quinn_Storm : ok, np :) Oct 16 03:44:27 /me is finding some sims dont work in some neo's Oct 16 03:45:07 my sim seems to work in my neo (got qtopia to show tmobile and receive an sms) but I'm still having lots of trouble. also unlucky for me, no signal from tmobile in my apartment either Oct 16 03:45:56 i have one sim that doesn't work on one neo, but another neo is does Oct 16 03:46:18 odd Oct 16 03:46:24 ya Oct 16 03:46:59 perhaps somehow the modems don't have the same firmware installed? Oct 16 03:51:36 ok now that's weird...the first time I booted this rootfs the icons showed up fine in the top bar, now they won't appear, just the app switcher menu Oct 16 03:52:30 ya, the one where it does work is a v3, the one that doesn't is a v4 Oct 16 03:52:46 havent checked other v4's around here yet Oct 16 03:53:50 mine's a v4 (if you mean the GTA01BV4 sticker Oct 16 04:15:37 I just made my first call (from the command-line) Oct 16 04:16:03 nice Oct 16 04:16:10 is the dialer still crashing? Oct 16 04:16:13 no idea Oct 16 04:16:23 I couldn't get the UI to recognize a network Oct 16 04:16:36 I had to drop to command-line and do the whole AT+COPS thing myself Oct 16 04:17:17 yeah the UI just goes 'waiting for network registration' Oct 16 04:17:24 any suggestions? Oct 16 04:17:45 (the dialer that is) Oct 16 04:18:29 i've not updated in some time Oct 16 04:18:42 I'm running what I think is the latest 2007.2 image Oct 16 04:18:47 but when i did get the dialer to work, it was in the very first few om2007.2 builds Oct 16 04:18:55 I got it here - http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Oct 16 04:19:14 the 15-oct-2007 one Oct 16 04:19:33 I wonder what happens if I call it Oct 16 04:20:38 yeah I got voicemail, I think the ui is just not able to talk to the modem for some reason Oct 16 04:20:47 let me make sure gsmd is running Oct 16 04:20:57 yep its running Oct 16 04:21:11 that is very possible Oct 16 04:22:42 I'll pop back into cu to see if I see RING Oct 16 04:22:49 I think there's been some issues with the dialer lately Oct 16 04:23:14 this is more than just the dialer, the icon shows ?, and it doesn't react to RING or anything Oct 16 04:23:18 Actually it's working quite stable for me at the moment Oct 16 04:23:43 alphaone - which rootfs / kernel? Oct 16 04:25:00 The one I built: https://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openmoko-build/glibc/images/neo1973/ Oct 16 04:25:30 Currently trying outgoing though Oct 16 04:25:52 I'll try yours (I see .de, is it localized or in C/en_US?) Oct 16 04:26:01 my kernel seems to be locking Oct 16 04:26:47 Nah, localization sucks ;-) Oct 16 04:27:11 good, b/c I only speak C/en_US Oct 16 04:27:18 At least for me it does. Oct 16 04:27:50 Use the kernel provided with the rootfs. Oct 16 04:27:55 will do Oct 16 04:29:22 do you do any special tricks after/during bootup or does it "just work" with that image for you Oct 16 04:29:23 ? Oct 16 04:31:08 Quinn_Storm: It usually works at least once Oct 16 04:31:12 also FWIW I have a v4 unit (GTA01BV4) Oct 16 04:31:31 me too Oct 16 04:31:45 though I doubt you're in the USA using a t-mobile prepaid sim :-P Oct 16 04:31:53 i am :-D Oct 16 04:31:57 Although it's not quite the reworked one on sale Oct 16 04:31:59 my att sim works too, so i got lucky Oct 16 04:32:26 how can i clear a forward chain? (iptables on the host) Oct 16 04:32:31 mine's just whatever I got out of the box they sent me (it was a freebie, so I don't know if it came from the sale set or not, it seems like it must have given it came with all the accessories) Oct 16 04:33:23 i'd like to test the update abilities... and my default chain on my desktop doesn't play nice Oct 16 04:33:43 iptables mystifies me Oct 16 04:34:08 I've never been able to use it easily either.. Oct 16 04:34:12 i actually just read the man page (i just wanted to make sure i read it right ;-P) Oct 16 04:34:40 daMaestro: Maybe dump the current settings, remove the line you don't want, flush then reset everything? Oct 16 04:34:54 well .. i can just delete the blocking line Oct 16 04:35:25 i was wondering how to do it from my hotplug script (but i think that requires still removing the default drop Oct 16 04:36:06 yeah, just have to rely on a hardware firewall or at least a NAT set not to forward instead of that Oct 16 04:36:59 oh, no.. this is on my host (which is pretty custom setup.. and i need iptables) Oct 16 04:37:36 the bridge has been annoying to deal with on more then one occasion.. but it makes virtualization sooo much better Oct 16 04:37:46 I hate network bridging Oct 16 04:37:48 with a passion Oct 16 04:37:52 it never ever ever works right Oct 16 04:37:55 i love it (if setup right) Oct 16 04:38:05 yeah, most people do Oct 16 04:38:11 I guess I'm just unlucky Oct 16 04:38:19 (it especially hates wifi) Oct 16 04:39:04 also, not that I have to deal with it, I do work at vmware, and even there most people prefer the bridged networking (why I don't know), I think its a situation where I always have a weird setup so the default eth0 bridge is invariably wrong Oct 16 04:42:21 bridged in vmware is handy for getting vms to talk to other hardware boxes on the same physical network Oct 16 04:42:34 but yes, it's a pain when the default eth0 isn't what you want Oct 16 04:43:17 luckily the linux side will soon get a GUI network configurator...only about 5 years too late Oct 16 04:45:38 hmm, matchbox-panel- is chewing cpu and the UI isn't coming up Oct 16 04:48:35 I had a build from 10/10 that worked just fine, but there seem to have been a lot of changes since Oct 16 04:49:15 this makes it hard to figure out how to help the project Oct 16 04:49:38 For sure. :( It hasn't been this bad in quite a while Oct 16 04:50:05 while downloading anjuta1.2.4a packages it gives me Error: Dependency is not satisfiable : libvte4 Oct 16 04:50:15 at least I can dial from a terminal -.- (not that that's terribly useful, though I guess I could load the alsa profile and stuff...) Oct 16 04:50:40 * Quinn_Storm waits to see if the UI comes up this boot Oct 16 04:50:58 wow, it did Oct 16 04:50:59 wtf Oct 16 04:51:14 Heh.. Oct 16 04:52:24 ugh, still the same not registered issue Oct 16 04:58:26 yesss... ipkg update is running :-D Oct 16 04:58:38 i just had to add usb0 to the bridge (and clear the FORWARD chain) Oct 16 04:59:33 i suppose now i can poke around more and write a correct FORWARD chain... now that i know i need to also brctl addif usb0 br0 Oct 16 05:02:26 I notice that libgsm-tool -m shell fails on my hardware, it refuses to ever return from commands, but I also know my hardware isn't totally broken since with cu and a few well placed stty crtscts's I can even make a call Oct 16 05:04:01 and now I have managed to lock up the kernel again Oct 16 05:05:21 well that's enough for one night, I'll play more with it tomorrow or whenever Oct 16 05:22:33 hmm ipkg upgrade is kinda slow Oct 16 05:23:05 hmm my ssh session might have timed out :-/ Oct 16 05:23:54 faster than apt-get on my notebook ;-) Oct 16 05:24:09 ouch Oct 16 05:39:06 * CM wonders if Quinn_Storm wants Compiz on the GTA02 ;) Oct 16 05:39:42 good morning Oct 16 05:48:02 i'm getting dependency errors now Oct 16 05:49:45 http://dpaste.com/22615/ <-- fun Oct 16 05:50:02 CM: can there be compiz on the GTA02? :-P that'd be sexy Oct 16 05:52:32 summatusmentis: I'm just guessing that the Quinn_Storm who was here earlier is the same as the Beryl developer Oct 16 05:56:57 oh... I guess I didn't make that connection, well done Oct 16 05:58:56 summatusmentis: I guess I read too much about software and don't code enough ;) Oct 16 06:01:02 heh, the only coding I've been doing is scheme, for school Oct 16 06:01:06 yuck Oct 16 06:01:27 it's not terrible, but I'm not a fan of syntax Oct 16 06:01:54 so I'd probably get yelled at for submitting stuff in scheme? :-P Oct 16 06:02:02 no Oct 16 06:02:24 Well, I've been coding in APL at my current assignment Oct 16 06:02:30 How to install anjuta 1.2.4a I install this first then install 2.1 and then again remove all and now I want to install 1.2.4a How to do it. While Manually installinig this version of anjuat it gives me Error: Dependency is not satisfiable : libvte4 Oct 16 06:02:31 Beats all, I promise.. Oct 16 06:02:56 atul: Do you have vte installed? Oct 16 06:03:47 summatusmentis: Code example: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/apl2.png Oct 16 06:04:20 CM, yes Oct 16 06:05:48 CM: oh dear god... that's disgusting Oct 16 06:06:20 So if you'r a consultant, stay away from old mainframes using apl ;) Oct 16 06:08:49 lol, I hope to be doing OS stuff in 5 or 6 years Oct 16 06:09:46 How to install anjuta 1.2.4a I install this first then install 2.1 and then again remove all and now I want to install 1.2.4a How to do it. While Manually installinig this version of anjuat it gives me Error: Dependency is not satisfiable : libvte4 Oct 16 06:10:11 atul: What distro? Oct 16 06:11:28 CM 7.0.4 Oct 16 06:12:09 CM: distro is ubuntu 7.0.4 i use Oct 16 06:12:22 Hmm.. I use gentoo, trying to install it now Oct 16 06:29:09 How to install anjuta 1.2.4a I install this first then install 2.1 and then again remove all and now I want to install 1.2.4a How to do it. While Manually installinig this version of anjuat it gives me Error: Dependency is not satisfiable : libvte4 Oct 16 06:31:04 atul: Your asking in the wrong channel. Check the ubuntu forums or some ubuntu-newbie channel or so Oct 16 06:31:32 CM, ok Oct 16 06:32:34 I just installed the September 16, 2009 openmoko snapshot and I'm having problems making outbound calls. Oct 16 06:32:42 I get the Dialer: Error setting antenna power Oct 16 06:32:53 And I'm also showing not registered on the GSM network Oct 16 06:33:01 any ideas on those two items? Oct 16 06:33:13 I would try a newer build Oct 16 06:33:29 There were lots of trouble with gsmd all september Oct 16 06:33:35 is there any way to upgrade with ipkg to newer builds? Oct 16 06:33:42 or is it going to take a rootfs reflash Oct 16 06:34:36 2009 snapshot, wow, that must be the one with no bugs :-D Oct 16 06:34:52 oops... hehe Oct 16 06:35:02 XorA: Hehe.. I'm not awake enough yet I guess.. Didn't even notice Oct 16 06:35:08 camera, wifi and google client support too - LOL Oct 16 06:35:37 it will pull chicks/lads (depending on preferrence) for you Oct 16 06:37:30 I'm going to ISPCON tomorrow, and a bunch of people want to see an OpenMoko phone. I'd really like to have it working. Not a big deal though. Oct 16 06:38:50 bumkus: if you can get someone to ship you a build from last few days I think it will show it off a lot better Oct 16 06:39:53 where could I download a newer build? The ones I have all came from the build.openmoko.org site. Oct 16 06:45:49 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Oct 16 06:56:17 argh i just have to say it Oct 16 06:56:17 thanks Oct 16 06:56:29 ScaredyCat: your nick constantly reminds me of the smelly cat episode of friends Oct 16 06:56:41 and the smelly cat song Oct 16 06:56:45 hey! I just showered! Oct 16 06:56:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETQfuzNGT58 Oct 16 06:57:15 ScaredyCat: yes, but what are they feeding you? Oct 16 06:57:24 nothing :/ Oct 16 06:58:45 ScaredyCat: It's not your fault! ;) Oct 16 06:59:53 ScaredyCat: you're just obviously not their favourite pet Oct 16 07:00:21 * ScaredyCat doctors all ipk and jffs2 files ... Oct 16 07:03:09 anyone spotted the 'note this' on google searches... or have i just missed it all this time? Oct 16 07:21:26 ScaredyCat: it's there for some time Oct 16 07:39:52 usually in distro we have /etc/release to determine which distro; is there anyway to determine which rootfs has been flashed when the phone is running? Oct 16 07:40:17 mbuf: I've been wondering about that too Oct 16 07:41:48 CM, if i expect capture logs from end-users, i would like to know which rootfs they are using, it helps; it should be OM related; but does OE have something like that or is it just their release version? Oct 16 07:43:36 /etc/version will give you the date Oct 16 07:43:49 /etc/issue has something meaningful Oct 16 07:43:53 Ah Oct 16 07:45:53 so does OE and OM follow Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) group? or some distro-specific conventions, or their own? Oct 16 07:47:18 mbuf: kinda FHS, but we have no strict policy Oct 16 07:47:27 XorA, i see Oct 16 07:53:01 XorA: so why the name change in the build? Oct 16 07:53:25 generic neo1973 rather than gta0x Oct 16 07:53:55 because for a lot of stuff gta01==gta02 Oct 16 07:54:05 and both are neo1973 Oct 16 07:58:47 k Oct 16 08:05:44 openmoko: 03alphaone * r3182 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Oct 16 08:05:44 openmoko: * src/moko-sound.{c,h}: Add GSM speaker out sound profile Oct 16 08:05:44 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_talking_speaker_toggle): Oct 16 08:05:44 openmoko: * src/moko-talking.c: (on_speaker_toggled): Oct 16 08:05:44 openmoko: Speaker button now toggles the GSM speaker out profile Oct 16 08:05:46 openmoko: (requires recent alsa-state package) Oct 16 08:10:09 what's the 'speaker button' ? Oct 16 08:10:14 headset? Oct 16 08:17:07 loudspeaker Oct 16 08:20:08 it says 'button' ... Oct 16 08:20:30 is it a soft button? Oct 16 08:25:07 am building openmoko, 3000 of 4832 done - yay! Oct 16 08:25:23 ScaredyCat: yes, soft button. when in a call Oct 16 08:30:08 openmoko: 03laforge * r3183 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: add gta02 charger state reading from u-boot Oct 16 08:32:43 openmoko: 03laforge * r3184 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/neo1973-gsmver.patch: don't try to find double-quotes in GSM version, not all gsm firmware versions have those Oct 16 08:32:58 openmoko: 03alphaone * r3185 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): Oct 16 08:32:58 openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: (gsm_applet_network_registration_cb): Oct 16 08:32:58 openmoko: Only show the "Connected to network" notification if the phone was not Oct 16 08:32:58 openmoko: previously connected to the network Oct 16 08:35:33 Package libmokojournal2-0 wants to install file /usr/lib/libmokojournal2.so.0 Oct 16 08:35:33 But that file is already provided by package libmokojournal2 Oct 16 08:35:37 sooo.. what's the fix? Oct 16 08:36:06 -force-reinstall ? Oct 16 08:36:28 remove libmokojournal2 first? Oct 16 08:37:49 shouldnt new versions replace old files? Oct 16 08:38:14 http://dpaste.com/22619/ Oct 16 08:40:53 http://dpaste.com/22620/ <-- fun Oct 16 08:41:27 ah, but it pulled the correct dep Oct 16 08:43:08 I get plenty of: ERROR: QA issue: libpixbufloader-wbmp.la failed sanity test (reference to workdir or installed) Oct 16 08:43:19 is that anything that I need to worry about? Oct 16 08:44:56 hi there Oct 16 08:47:32 never worried me gamin :) Oct 16 08:48:26 i think you need to : ipkg remove libmokojournal2 -force-depends Oct 16 08:48:31 then reinstall libmokojournal2 Oct 16 08:54:35 ScaredyCat, yup Oct 16 08:55:04 at least now the dialer bitches when it can't talk to gsmd Oct 16 09:04:38 goodday channel Oct 16 09:04:52 helomoko Oct 16 09:20:12 hello. Someone could tell me the known good dns server address? Oct 16 09:20:37 I tend to use 4.2.2.1 as a backup if all else failes. Oct 16 09:20:51 Slow but reliable, and easy to remember. Oct 16 09:22:55 how many neos have been sold so far? Oct 16 09:23:01 So, guys. Should we be designing software for what the GTA-01/GTA-02 are, or what we wish it would be? The limitations in the GTA-01 are so strong, it would kill our software to design for it, IMO. Oct 16 09:23:37 Sooner or later the GTA-03 will come out, and OpenMoko is portable in any case to other platforms. Oct 16 09:23:47 vciaglia: I use those from http://opendns.com/ Oct 16 09:24:41 Ghiottone|work: 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220? Oct 16 09:25:49 In particular, the screen is really meant for a stylus, yet the neo doesn't have a slot for one. There's not even one convenient button on the thing, and if we touch the screen, it gets yucky, is hard to clean, and has trouble reading my fingers in an case. The keyboard is so tiny, a stylus is required. Oct 16 09:25:53 vciaglia: yes Oct 16 09:26:11 Should we design software to work with a stylus, or fingers? Oct 16 09:26:39 today for fingers, rest for stylus - imho Oct 16 09:26:55 and dialer for fingers Oct 16 09:27:56 I agree that the screen is mostly for stylus. Oct 16 09:28:20 just my 2c though Oct 16 09:28:22 But... multi-touch is coming on strong. If we have to work with the current generation of neo display, I agree with you, but wont the hardware change in 12-18 months? Oct 16 09:28:34 Possibly. Oct 16 09:28:39 Who knows. Oct 16 09:28:56 Multi-touch will not be in the first public revision of GTA02 Oct 16 09:28:57 more than one person told me they barely use multitouch Oct 16 09:28:59 I have to say, this is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. Oct 16 09:29:06 on the iphone that is Oct 16 09:29:18 It depends how much GTA02 sells. Oct 16 09:29:20 I barely used it on my iPhone. Oct 16 09:29:29 see :) Oct 16 09:30:06 If GTA02 sells, GTA03 may come out with multitouch, several models for high speed transfers in different markets, ... Oct 16 09:30:11 However, I loved using my fingers, and the 3.5" glass display was awesome. Oct 16 09:30:49 xyzzy_bill: how robust is it when falling on concrete? Oct 16 09:30:52 Hmm... the problem here is I don't see GTA-02 selling very well, other than to hackers. Oct 16 09:31:22 GTA02 is out yet ? Oct 16 09:31:23 selling the 02 is a marketing and a software question Oct 16 09:31:35 gamin: the iPhone? Well, it's tougher than I thought. I had to throw it against the floor in the Apple store with all my strength to smash the display, and it still didn't fall apart. Oct 16 09:31:35 No. Oct 16 09:31:50 xyzzy_bill: :) Oct 16 09:31:55 xyzzy_bill: I'm assuming of course. Oct 16 09:31:56 CVirus: no, it's not out, but the specs don't sound encouraging to me. Oct 16 09:32:05 xyzzy_bill: why not ? Oct 16 09:32:16 xyzzy_bill: it's possible even if GTA02 doesn't sell well, FIC will fund the production of later versions. Oct 16 09:32:24 But of course much less likely. Oct 16 09:32:39 First, it's $450, which is $50 > iPhone. However, in every respect, the hardware is inferior. Oct 16 09:32:42 how much do they need to sell to call it a success? Oct 16 09:32:51 gamin: Well... Oct 16 09:32:58 the price tag is prohibitive... Oct 16 09:33:05 xyzzy_bill: totally agreed Oct 16 09:33:08 gamin: ballpark, you'd want to pay back the dev costs. Oct 16 09:33:19 Let's assume a 150$/unit margin Oct 16 09:33:35 And 20 people for a year have been paid to develop it. Oct 16 09:33:40 SpeedEvil: I think margin will be closer to 3X Oct 16 09:33:58 xyzzy_bill: I think so too Oct 16 09:33:59 SpeedEvil: 20 harward guys? Oct 16 09:34:03 At $70K per Oct 16 09:34:15 So 2.5M or so. Oct 16 09:34:24 (counting ancillery costs) Oct 16 09:34:32 70K per developer ? Oct 16 09:34:34 SpeedEvil: Aren't they all in Taiwan? I though they got paid closer to $20K/yr Oct 16 09:34:45 LOL @ xyzzy_bill Oct 16 09:35:04 It's probably got to break 20K units. Oct 16 09:35:07 so ~20k units Oct 16 09:35:53 Depending on salary and margin, this might drop to 5K or go up to 40K Oct 16 09:35:53 should not be that difficult - given that they already sold 3000 bricks ;-P Oct 16 09:36:18 good morning Oct 16 09:36:23 I think the math should be: selling 1M units w/ $100 margin = $100M market/yr. Therefore, the company that makes it should be ready to spend ~$100M to enter the market with a new platform. Oct 16 09:36:35 possibly. Oct 16 09:36:56 seen this? http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/BAaf/~3/170404658/20071015-broadcom-touts-new-3g-phone-on-a-chip-could-show-up-in-3g-iphone.html Oct 16 09:36:57 Now, convince the execs to do that. Oct 16 09:37:42 why is there so little info from sean about which software they work on and which is community? Oct 16 09:37:58 i.e. email client, webbrowser... Oct 16 09:38:01 Because they are concentrating on the trees. Oct 16 09:38:09 And can't see the forest. Oct 16 09:39:15 so you mean fic is not actively working on those? I don't feel starting development on anything, because I always supect some full time paid developer comes suddenly out with a solution... Oct 16 09:39:25 I just realized that the Neo1973 is expensive Oct 16 09:39:48 gamin: I mean that there is no good information. Oct 16 09:39:50 CVirus: how comes Oct 16 09:39:58 gamin: as to what is available. Oct 16 09:40:08 gamin: well ... the iPhone is cheaper and even with better hardware components Oct 16 09:40:12 SpeedEvil: exactly Oct 16 09:40:22 GTA01 is broadly comparable with prices - apart from wifi. Oct 16 09:40:33 yeah but GTA02 is not Oct 16 09:40:39 gamin: That's exactly how I feel as well. Stronger leadership, showing the sw dev road-map, would be great. Oct 16 09:40:45 I was talking about the GTA02 Oct 16 09:41:01 If GTA02 was to go on sale with only wifi added for maybe $350, it'd be on a par, or marginally cheaper. Oct 16 09:41:23 At $450, it's clearly more expensive. Oct 16 09:41:50 Especially given that it won't be available in the main channel subsidised. Oct 16 09:42:14 imho, without cam, 450 is a tad too much Oct 16 09:42:24 I agree Oct 16 09:42:30 argh, who the hell wants a cam on their phone Oct 16 09:42:36 ewon: not me Oct 16 09:42:44 ewon: I want a cheaper phone Oct 16 09:42:49 Besides the price of GTA02, there's still big limitations. Using a stylus, but having no holder. A cell phone with a bigger lanyard than I've ever seen on any device. Oct 16 09:42:56 half the ppl who will buy this have NDAs the size of australia, and can't bring cameras into work Oct 16 09:43:00 $450 really would need a decent cam or other feature to justify the price from the purchase. Oct 16 09:43:05 ewon: most people, even those who never use it :-( Oct 16 09:43:07 380,-EUR customer price in europe is maximum... Oct 16 09:43:20 i would have said 300EUR in your hand is maximum Oct 16 09:43:20 phone cams are an abysmmal toy Oct 16 09:43:20 At $450, we're still talking no big flash, right? The iPhone at $400 has 8 gig. Oct 16 09:43:26 SpeedEvil: exactly Oct 16 09:43:26 every place I've worked since college had camera-bans Oct 16 09:43:34 and no edge... not to speak of umts Oct 16 09:43:41 I use a 6310i for day-to-dayusage Oct 16 09:43:45 and buggy software Oct 16 09:43:49 10 days between charges, no camera Oct 16 09:44:02 buz; yes, buggy sw :-) Oct 16 09:44:03 The ideal way to do a cam would be with a pull-out module. Oct 16 09:44:13 But that adds cost and volume Oct 16 09:44:23 cams suck Oct 16 09:44:24 use a usb webcam :P Oct 16 09:44:26 buz yeah 299,- is a good price.. Oct 16 09:44:34 incl shipping and vat that is Oct 16 09:44:46 good software can justify the cost even to some non-nerds with spesific needs, but that'll be a while of course Oct 16 09:45:04 mjr: that's what I've been holding to :-) Oct 16 09:45:11 right now, if you want to use it as phone, its somewhat hard to justify it even for nerds Oct 16 09:45:23 CVirus: ewo: i don't want a camera for taking pictures to frame and stick on my wall. I want a cam for reading 2D barcodes. For taking pictures of streets aligned with the GPS to do openstreeetmap, Oct 16 09:45:26 volume will drive prices down which will drive volume which will drive prices down which will ... Oct 16 09:45:27 I never wanted a cam, till I got the iPhone. The photo-album on iphone is one of it's strongest apps, and people love to play with it. I stopped carrying pics of my kids in my wallet, and instead showed off the album. Oct 16 09:45:53 jipee, got my first build done and flashed and booted! Oct 16 09:45:54 For taking pictures of price labels in shops along with the goods so I can easily comparison shop. Oct 16 09:45:57 With a strong built-in photo-album, the cam seems more useful. Oct 16 09:46:00 xyzzy_bill, you can do that with neo :] Oct 16 09:46:05 SpeedEvil: more flash space has a higher priority I guess Oct 16 09:46:07 For this 640*480 is fine even. Oct 16 09:46:22 flash would be comparably simple to fix Oct 16 09:46:28 mjr: It needs to be done for neo. Who's writing it, NIC, or us? Oct 16 09:46:39 *shrug* Oct 16 09:46:45 That's a problem. Oct 16 09:46:49 it is Oct 16 09:46:55 We need a huge page with a list of tasks. Oct 16 09:46:57 what problem ? Oct 16 09:47:00 Who is doing it. Oct 16 09:47:01 SpeedEvil: I use a Navman for that - logs NMEA, has cam and navigates and costs 170,-EUR Oct 16 09:47:07 When they plan to finish it. Oct 16 09:47:52 And where the source repositry is (if any) Oct 16 09:48:02 Also, the Today app is nice, but I prefer "SummerBoard" - the hacker replacement for the iPhone "SpringBoard" Oct 16 09:48:50 http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/16/asus-eee-pc-models-announced/ Oct 16 09:48:51 an option for the launch-app-tap to have icons instead of a list? Oct 16 09:48:55 I have few items on my calender. I want my phone to boot with a scrollable list of icons I can touch, with some (being configurable) configurable to be stick, always at the top/bottom Oct 16 09:49:16 Booting into my cal doesn't work well for me. Oct 16 09:49:45 ScaredyCat: still no price Oct 16 09:49:51 Also, having to switch to a task list and hitting "kill all" button seems goofy. Oct 16 09:49:58 Wasn't FIC supposed to announce other OpenMoko devices this month ? Oct 16 09:50:14 CVirus: in theory, yes. Oct 16 09:50:29 that was even in september if I recall correctly Oct 16 09:51:12 buz: yeah, shme Oct 16 09:51:13 well, in nov 06 they announced the first 5000 devices for dec 06..... Oct 16 09:51:16 shame even Oct 16 09:51:55 And again... do our apps need big buttons for fingers, or little ones for stylus? Whatever the answer, it's important that we're all on the same page. Oct 16 09:52:17 xyzzy_bill: I still think it depends on the app Oct 16 09:52:51 actually an app may even have both - finger based parts and stylus based ones, i.e. Oct 16 09:53:01 the task list or dates... Oct 16 09:53:03 gamin: and also depends on the phone. Do we optimize for the display we have, or the next gen we may get in 08-09? Oct 16 09:53:24 * mjr votes for living in today Oct 16 09:53:27 putting in a new task is a stylus thing, but scrolling through the list is a finger thing Oct 16 09:53:43 The task list can be viewed with fingers, but to create a task requires a stylus, as the keyboard is stylus-only. Oct 16 09:53:53 yep Oct 16 09:54:09 if you get a new display sometime, adapt to it then Oct 16 09:54:35 But the neo doesn't have a stylus holder... surely it either needs one, or it needs a bigger, better touch-display. Oct 16 09:54:54 it needs a bigger screen Oct 16 09:55:01 I start to like this laserpointer pen Oct 16 09:55:12 I anyway always have a pen with me Oct 16 09:55:21 Also, the driver and/or screen doesn't seem to recognize my fingers very well. Is it a driver problem? I find that I can't easily scroll through the app list by hand. Oct 16 09:55:34 so I don't care there is no space wasted for a holder :) Oct 16 09:56:22 xyzzy_bill: using you nail it will be better and you must always have sufficent pressure while scrolling, otherwise it gets recognized as click Oct 16 09:56:23 So, some aspects of neo/open-moko are visionary and revolutionary, like making it an open linux based system. Oct 16 09:56:40 and using oe as build system Oct 16 09:57:02 gamin: is that something we can hack to fix in the driver, or is it a function of the actual display? Oct 16 09:57:09 if you have ever developed for maemo or other embedded devices you will appreciate that Oct 16 09:57:58 xyzzy_bill: dunno, haven't yet looked into the code behind the scrolling Oct 16 09:58:04 other aspects, like requiring a stylus and having no holder, and having the largest lanyard on the planet, were simple marketing gafs. Oct 16 09:58:31 what's a gaf? Oct 16 09:58:51 gaf = mistake (I think) Oct 16 09:59:31 the lanyard is cheapo as is the earplugs, but that can be easily corrected Oct 16 09:59:38 And, the hacker community needs that visionary leadership to help focus development. Who's writing the photo app? Oct 16 09:59:50 point is you dont need a friggin lanyard on a touchscreen phone that big Oct 16 10:00:09 don't use it :) Oct 16 10:00:39 but people i.e. in event management will love it Oct 16 10:01:14 people in event managemtn dont use linux phones Oct 16 10:01:23 With the built-in GPS, and terrific high-res display, there's so much we could do with this platform. Oct 16 10:01:42 the display is fabulous Oct 16 10:02:45 buz - they don't care about the os, but about the functions. and a linux phone offers a gazillion of opportunities Oct 16 10:06:11 buz: Linux or not, the OpenMoko platform represents excellent value for money - compare price with the iPhone, and thatPhone is only with a hefty contract Oct 16 10:06:29 for a regular user, the value is only there if the software's there Oct 16 10:06:32 you always need a contract Oct 16 10:06:55 yes, but you are not paying for part of the phone, with a contract. Oct 16 10:07:03 I'd be happy if I could get such a contract in france Oct 16 10:07:35 StealthCP: how do the 1$ / 1EUR phone work then? Oct 16 10:07:44 you pay always for the phone Oct 16 10:08:32 gamin: you don't always need a contract. For some users Pay as you go works fine. Oct 16 10:08:51 depends on your country.. Oct 16 10:09:17 in france you don't even get a combined data / voice sim card Oct 16 10:09:28 (For me, I make very few calls, and use GPRS several days a month.) Oct 16 10:09:36 the voice sim cards have astronomical data prices Oct 16 10:10:03 With pay as you go, I pay around 10 pounds/month if I use data for 9 days and make some calls. Oct 16 10:10:23 (up to 40M/day) Oct 16 10:11:06 with the iPhone, you are forced into a contract, regardless wether you want one, or already have one. Oct 16 10:11:16 SpeedEvil: 100M/month (!) are 35EUR here Oct 16 10:11:26 Whereas you can choose here, with the OpenMoko Oct 16 10:11:36 So, as an unlocked phone, the GTA-01 is priced nicely at $350. Oct 16 10:11:45 10G/month for 20eur in ireland Oct 16 10:11:48 data-only sim thugh Oct 16 10:11:50 Bundled with a 2-yr contract, it could be more like $200. Oct 16 10:12:07 I'm happy to keep my current contract with Orange - my ADSL and phone contract combined into a single sum. Oct 16 10:12:47 hi there. I did not found any information in the wiki about the releasedate of openmoko. What is the current Projectstatus in Procent? Ive read something on the website about october. But this was the dev version i think. sry for bad englisch ;-) Oct 16 10:12:48 Where are the paid open-moko devs? Taiwan, or Silicon Valley? Oct 16 10:13:03 * StealthCP reads /topic Oct 16 10:13:05 nepumuck: see topic :) Oct 16 10:13:06 StealthCP: a pitty free didn't get permission for another 3G+ network Oct 16 10:13:07 I'm a bit downhearted that GTA02 has been delayed to December Oct 16 10:13:26 However, that will turn out to be a nice Christmas present :P Oct 16 10:13:56 Unless they have somewhere some secret coding effort going on, it wont be mass-marketable until june 08 Oct 16 10:13:57 nepumuck: Neo1973 is the phone, OpenMoko the software platform Oct 16 10:14:26 there are two versions of the phone, the developers version (GTA01 - out now), and the consumer version (GTA02 - out Dec) Oct 16 10:14:28 And is that software platform built in Taiwan, or in the US? Oct 16 10:14:41 in germany :) Oct 16 10:14:48 gamin: Really? Oct 16 10:15:00 harald and mickey are both germans Oct 16 10:15:04 okay ;-). am i right then, that the releasedate is scheduled december? oh, then im very happy^^ Oct 16 10:15:18 Are harald and mickey part of the paid team? Oct 16 10:15:20 however it is more a worldwide effort Oct 16 10:15:20 nepumuck: supposed to be. If it will be user-ready is questionable. Oct 16 10:15:29 Thomas is in the UK Oct 16 10:15:30 xyzzy_bill: yes. Oct 16 10:15:38 Cool. Oct 16 10:16:06 I can't recall much good FOSS from Taiwan, but Germany produces ton :-) Oct 16 10:16:29 speedevil: what is the current status in procent of the GTA02? i would love to have a enduser ready phone in my hands this year Oct 16 10:16:49 harald is Mr gplviolations.org and Mr iptables Oct 16 10:17:02 Mr iptables? Oct 16 10:17:09 omfg Oct 16 10:17:14 Mickey is openembedded.org Oct 16 10:17:16 I'm wondering, would it not be better to produce the GTA02 now, a small batch for developers or testers? Oct 16 10:17:38 I mean, developing without the hardware is possible, but what if the hardware needs changed, or there is a problem? Oct 16 10:17:52 Wouldn't be good if they were mass produced in December with problems :) Oct 16 10:18:00 The software isn't anywhere close to ready for prime-time... I'd keep building them for developers, and I'd try to offer some leadership, if I were producing neos. Oct 16 10:18:03 StealthCP, like they are doing internally? Oct 16 10:18:04 xyzzy_bill: But producing code depends on the person, not on the country. Bringing FOSS code quality to .tw is one of the goals Oct 16 10:18:07 StealthCP: I'm wondering if it would not be helpful to reliably make phone calls from 01 and using it on a daily basis... Oct 16 10:18:26 StealthCP: They will not Oct 16 10:18:41 StealthCP: Already early developer previews in some hands Oct 16 10:18:49 * stefan_schmidt looks right to him. Oct 16 10:19:18 stefan_schmidt: I agree. Mostly I was wondering if our paid devs are not providing leadership because they don't speak English. I think that's one reason Taiwan isn't very active in FOSS. Oct 16 10:20:05 sry for the question, but what/who is FOSS? Oct 16 10:20:20 FOSS = Free and/or Open-Source Software Oct 16 10:20:28 xyzzy_bill: Communication is one barrier, indeed. But looking around here in the office I think we have english skilled people too. Oct 16 10:20:30 ah okay. thx Oct 16 10:20:36 I know what you mean, gamin. However the WiFi capability is something that prevents me from geting an 01 right now. Oct 16 10:21:17 stefan_schmidt: Is your office in Germany? I find Germans speak better English than most Americans. Oct 16 10:21:23 Greetings Oct 16 10:21:37 Hi, masterbrian. Oct 16 10:21:56 I'm trying to compile moko from mokomakefile but I've got error building uicmoc4-native-4.3.1 Oct 16 10:21:58 stefan_schmidt: is anybody working on an email client and on a browser? Oct 16 10:22:03 so here I'm to report :D Oct 16 10:22:16 xyzzy_bill: Normally I work from germany, right. ATM I'm at the OpenMoko Inc. office at Taipei Oct 16 10:22:35 it is a know bug? Oct 16 10:22:36 gamin: Browser is already in svn. Webkit based. Oct 16 10:22:57 gamin: email client is planned but not done yet. Oct 16 10:23:17 * cjb_ie could be tempted by a dev job in tw ... does a bit of schematic entry, a bit of multilayer PCB layout, a bit of hardware debug, ... Oct 16 10:23:23 stefan_schmidt: midori you mean? Oct 16 10:24:25 anyone else is having problem compiling openmoko? Oct 16 10:24:31 stefan_schmidt: email client: is that done by openedhand? and with tnymail? Oct 16 10:24:53 masterbrian: mine went through, started yesterday evening from scratch Oct 16 10:25:33 gamin: No, not midori. Webkit as engine and the moko GUI put together. openmoko-browser Look at the svn Oct 16 10:26:41 stefan_schmidt: A good published plan for openmoko dev would be great. I think a few of us are confused as to what apps to work on, and how we should design them to work (stylus vs fingers). Oct 16 10:26:45 gamin: (email client) It's not fixed yet who will do it. tinymail could be the base. I'm not the chief guy to decide this. ;) Oct 16 10:27:28 stefan_schmidt: is mickey the chief ui man? Oct 16 10:27:44 xyzzy_bill: There is ongoing work on docs atm, stay tuned. I think roh or MichaelShiloh will keep you updated. Oct 16 10:27:46 i think a good published plan would be also good for the endusers and the community that is interested in the phone Oct 16 10:27:57 xyzzy_bill: We see the need for more dev doc. Oct 16 10:28:29 gamin: Mom, let me search his title. :) Oct 16 10:28:57 gamin: Lead Software Architect - Application Framework Oct 16 10:29:41 chief ui man sounds a lot nicer ;) - CUIM Oct 16 10:29:57 against LSAAF Oct 16 10:30:01 gamin: Mostly the decision is based on a discussion in the core team. Of course the leader in the area mostly have the biggest impact. Oct 16 10:31:09 Does the core team all have iPhones? Oct 16 10:31:27 xyzzy_bill: No iphone here Oct 16 10:31:29 Seriously, you want the guys making decisions to understand the state-of-the-arge. Oct 16 10:31:35 s/arge/art/ Oct 16 10:31:36 xyzzy_bill meant: Seriously, you want the guys making decisions to understand the state-of-the-art. Oct 16 10:31:36 and Microsoft Windows for Mobile ;-P Oct 16 10:32:29 gamin: right. Oct 16 10:32:32 Windows Mobile Sucks seriously ;-). The performance is totaly unusable Oct 16 10:32:51 Maybe windows mobile 6 is better Oct 16 10:32:57 Windows sucks everywhere Oct 16 10:33:00 * * OM Bug 934 has been created by mstevens(AT)etla.org Oct 16 10:33:01 * * incorrect html escaping in bug processed screen Oct 16 10:33:02 I've never been impressed with Windows Mobile, but I hear good things about mobile 6. Oct 16 10:33:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=934 Oct 16 10:33:17 nepumuck: comments not based on figures dont help anyone, its not that unusable as I use it everyday Oct 16 10:33:36 XorA: That means nothing. ;) Oct 16 10:34:01 windows users typically have higher levels of pain tolerance ;) Oct 16 10:34:05 XorA: I mean you are from this Island. *hide* Oct 16 10:34:13 Yes your right. Ive forgot to mention that i mean the compact framework part of windows mobile Oct 16 10:34:27 nepumuck: now that is slow as hell :-) Oct 16 10:34:34 yes it is ;-) Oct 16 10:35:05 stefan_schmidt: its useful to keep the Mate junkies out Oct 16 10:35:15 XorA: heh Oct 16 10:35:34 XorA: We thought about getting Mate to Taiwan. All ways seems expensive Oct 16 10:35:42 lol ;-) Oct 16 10:35:42 heh heh Oct 16 10:36:00 * * OM Bug 935 has been created by mstevens(AT)etla.org Oct 16 10:36:01 * * spelling mistake in site infrastructure product Oct 16 10:36:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=935 Oct 16 10:40:32 hi. Someone using qtopia-image on openmoko? Oct 16 10:42:13 i have some problems with networking there, but with Openmoko works fine. Oct 16 10:44:38 stefan_schmidt, why don't we have openmoko-browser on the image? Oct 16 10:47:35 Shoragan: hmm, we don't have? Oct 16 10:47:41 Shoragan: If you say it. Oct 16 10:47:49 it doesn't get installed by default Oct 16 10:48:00 XorA: Any reason why we don't have the browser in the default image? Oct 16 10:48:13 stefan_schmidt: no-one asked for it, building/adding now Oct 16 10:48:20 XorA: cool Oct 16 10:48:52 stefan_schmidt: app-manager as well? Oct 16 10:49:02 we should have all apps which work in svn in the image Oct 16 10:49:14 they need to be visible to get tested Oct 16 10:49:31 XorA: Not sure if this one is working at all. o-hand copied it over and adjusted some stuff. No idea if it is useful already Oct 16 10:49:57 it'll try it Oct 16 10:50:03 Shoragan: k Oct 16 10:50:03 http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=7963124 Oct 16 10:52:42 Shoragan: How much does you miniplanet application compress the xml? Oct 16 10:52:53 it's not done Oct 16 10:53:11 So it's still missing parts? Oct 16 10:53:13 yes Oct 16 10:53:19 okay. Oct 16 10:53:29 i didn't have time :/ Oct 16 10:53:35 :-/ Oct 16 10:53:59 Missing what? Can you estimate the size it is going to take? Oct 16 10:54:09 no Oct 16 10:54:12 okay Oct 16 10:54:20 it needs tag filtering Oct 16 10:54:33 and block based compression Oct 16 10:54:59 but it should be similar in size to commercial stuff Oct 16 10:55:07 So it will be smaller that your current results? Oct 16 10:55:11 yes Oct 16 10:55:11 than Oct 16 10:55:27 okay, and what's the size you currently have? Oct 16 10:55:41 a very rouch guess would be 200-500 MB for the current planet file Oct 16 10:55:42 alphaone: Seems sitting next to me gives you my spelling skills. ;) Oct 16 10:55:52 s/have/get/ Oct 16 10:55:52 alphaone meant: okay, and what's the size you currently get? Oct 16 10:56:12 stefan_schmidt: heh Oct 16 10:56:25 alphaone: And you know, it sucks to e me. Oct 16 10:56:35 Shoragan: Okay, that's quite promising. Oct 16 10:56:38 Thanks. Oct 16 10:57:40 So from 15Gigs to 500 Megs :-) Oct 16 10:58:40 alphaone: That's because XML does 500 Megs to 15 Gigs ;) Oct 16 10:59:18 stefan_schmidt: :-) Oct 16 10:59:23 s|<.*>||g :-D Oct 16 10:59:55 XorA: Ah, you are also and optimization expert. :) Oct 16 11:00:26 stefan_schmidt: its a pity that regexp actually removes everything from an xml file, but I cant remeber the non greedy version Oct 16 11:00:44 hmm, if you guys like to have qvga support soon, I really should switch to another workspace again. Oct 16 11:00:47 XorA, appmanager crashes Oct 16 11:00:52 but browser is ok Oct 16 11:01:00 XorA: .*? Oct 16 11:01:03 that's non-greedy Oct 16 11:01:30 work, later Oct 16 11:01:32 (at least in perlre, iirc) Oct 16 11:02:19 gi-el: cheers Oct 16 11:37:13 a webserver on my phone - finally got the thttpd onto it. package compiles but there is some bug in the do_package. nevertheless, just copying the binary over makes it work Oct 16 11:40:54 :) Oct 16 11:51:01 gamin: now interface that with the gsm modem and build a http<->sms gateway Oct 16 11:52:52 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3186 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch pcf50633.patch): Oct 16 11:52:52 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 11:52:52 openmoko: (orig r3133): laforge | 2007-10-09 17:57:30 +0200 Oct 16 11:52:52 openmoko: * export all pcf50633 symbols as _GPL symbols. Oct 16 11:52:52 openmoko: * replace pcf50633_gpo0_{get,set} with generic pcf50633_gpio_{get,set} Oct 16 11:52:54 openmoko: * complete GTA02 >= v2 GSM power switching support (based on patch by jserv) Oct 16 11:56:12 ScaredyCat: already started :-) Oct 16 11:56:30 long time ago I last wrote cgi in sh Oct 16 11:57:35 well, there you go then :) Oct 16 11:57:42 ScaredyCat: actually that is a five minute thing, once libgsm-tool starts working Oct 16 11:58:00 you have 5 minutes then ;) Oct 16 12:02:32 #!/bin/sh Oct 16 12:02:33 echo "Content-type: text/plain" Oct 16 12:02:33 echo Oct 16 12:02:33 env| sort Oct 16 12:02:33 echo Oct 16 12:02:33 echo $QUERY_STRING Oct 16 12:02:35 Oct 16 12:02:37 libgsmd-tool -sendsms -somethingorother Oct 16 12:03:34 ScaredyCat: that's kind of it Oct 16 12:04:11 a bit of awk to split the query_string Oct 16 12:05:03 lol Oct 16 12:05:11 should I get my gsmd up and running I'll let you send sms around france Oct 16 12:05:32 and connect the phone to the net beforehand.. Oct 16 12:06:12 mm.. Oct 16 12:06:29 * ScaredyCat uses asterisk to send sms to phones in the house :) Oct 16 12:06:48 now someone show me to do that with MS or symbian in two minutes :) Oct 16 12:07:57 hehe Oct 16 12:12:26 more seriously: I think having a web-interface to the phone (mostly pim apps) would be nice. Instead of fiddeling with the stylus I could use a real keyboard everywhere Oct 16 12:12:42 cpu power is plenty Oct 16 12:12:44 You can use real BT keyvoards Oct 16 12:13:12 you don't always have one, but you have brwosers everywhere Oct 16 12:13:37 btw: does BT and BT keyboards work already? Oct 16 12:14:00 yes. Oct 16 12:14:08 nice Oct 16 12:14:10 Well - it's not properly setup automagically. Oct 16 12:14:22 But BT stuff works as it does on any other linux box. Oct 16 12:43:34 hi Oct 16 12:43:58 SpeedEvil right, we'd need a settings tool for bt then ;-) Oct 16 12:44:24 hciconfig? Oct 16 12:45:22 woglinde yea, with the on screen keyboard Oct 16 12:45:50 kristian just a joke, a simple ui is needed I agree Oct 16 12:51:13 like this: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/47c43153697fd00525df18c8dfca5729.png Oct 16 12:51:30 was my first try in python Oct 16 12:51:41 fgau :-) Oct 16 12:51:50 fgau not bad Oct 16 12:51:52 fgau how usable is it now? Oct 16 12:52:17 hey kristian-m Oct 16 12:52:18 fgau there is a places reserved in the settingsgui bz2 file for it ;-) Oct 16 12:52:26 hi Ghiottone|work Oct 16 12:52:44 Ghiottone|work i mentioned you at http://www.mput.de/blog/ Oct 16 12:53:22 kristian-m: version 0.0.0.1 alpha :) Oct 16 12:53:56 kristian so what will your master thesis be? Oct 16 12:54:01 fgau i see, keep going it looks promising Oct 16 12:54:46 woglinde it's not that clear yet. - some location based peer to peer stuff, like everyone seems to plan doing now Oct 16 12:55:04 kristian *g* Oct 16 12:56:18 kristian-m: great! thanks! :) Oct 16 12:56:52 oh krstian your are from berlin Oct 16 12:56:59 pitty you missed the oedem Oct 16 12:57:25 woglinde i think i had a test that friday Oct 16 12:57:44 kristian oedem last a little bit longer Oct 16 12:58:08 woglinde i see, well next time i'd like to be there Oct 16 12:58:57 kristian http://www.openembedded.org/oedem2007 Oct 16 12:59:27 next year will be poland or freece Oct 16 13:00:50 oh, well we'll see Oct 16 13:01:03 ups greece Oct 16 13:01:05 is it possible to use the angstrom feeds? Oct 16 13:01:05 lol Oct 16 13:01:17 gamin should Oct 16 13:02:04 woglinde: I'll give it a try then Oct 16 13:03:37 gamin probelms could be eabi vs oabi Oct 16 13:07:26 I have read that problems with the gllin chroot have been worked around. any adds to this? Oct 16 13:07:46 dont know Oct 16 13:09:49 openmoko --> mio a701 ?? Oct 16 13:20:46 soeme_: if mio a701 will run linux... Oct 16 13:24:34 browser and appmanager added to images Oct 16 13:26:03 XorA: which browser? Oct 16 13:26:06 cool Oct 16 13:26:15 openmoko-browser, what else Oct 16 13:26:19 ;D Oct 16 13:26:24 hrw: openmoko-uber-browser7000 Oct 16 13:26:26 webkit? Oct 16 13:26:37 ya. Oct 16 13:26:49 zecke-browser Oct 16 13:26:52 2602 of 4829 *wait* Oct 16 13:26:58 roh: :) Oct 16 13:27:01 start cranking... Oct 16 13:28:24 roh smoke some cigaretts for the next 2 hours Oct 16 13:29:42 woglinde ive reniced the toplevel python process to +5 to get my shells spawning faster again.. so probabyly some minutes more.. ~290minutes per complete built Oct 16 13:31:50 * ScaredyCat slaps kristian-m Oct 16 13:32:33 Henryk_afc: I dont see your terminal slowness with full termcap file Oct 16 13:32:45 Henryk_afc: pops up pretty much immediate here Oct 16 13:32:51 ScaredyCat ouch! Oct 16 13:33:06 XorA: its not the terminal, it's screen Oct 16 13:33:16 you deserved it kristian-m. Oct 16 13:33:27 ScaredyCat why? Oct 16 13:33:44 * ScaredyCat is trying to build a bb file for your setting gui - but you keep changin ghte names/case of things Oct 16 13:34:35 ScaredyCat sry ;-) - ask Ghiottone|work - 0.8 will change again Oct 16 13:34:44 :/ Oct 16 13:34:57 * ScaredyCat abandons work on it. Oct 16 13:35:37 hehe Oct 16 13:36:37 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3187 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch pcf50633.patch): Oct 16 13:36:37 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 13:36:37 openmoko: Fix function rename in pcf50633.h because .23 is compiled with Oct 16 13:36:37 openmoko: -Werror-implicit-function-declaration. Oct 16 13:36:37 openmoko: see: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=94bed2a9c4ae980838003f5d32681eef794ecc28 Oct 16 13:36:39 hrw: yes with haret :) Oct 16 13:36:42 openmoko: (orig r3136): laforge | 2007-10-09 19:26:37 +0200 Oct 16 13:36:43 openmoko: GTA02: implement USB battery charging control using pcf50633 Oct 16 13:38:13 ScaredyCat well i thought i've managed everything with the setup.py Oct 16 13:38:35 * ScaredyCat points at the archive names for a start Oct 16 13:38:39 soeme_: handhelds.org kernel? Oct 16 13:39:09 ScaredyCat to jump th bz2 was bad? Oct 16 13:39:10 if Ghiottone|work is building the .bb then I'll just wait and add it to my builds Oct 16 13:39:24 wasn't bad, was just annoying... Oct 16 13:39:32 ScaredyCat i see sry Oct 16 13:39:33 i think so, but my zimage is from htcuniversal Oct 16 13:39:36 plus the filenames actually changed too Oct 16 13:40:01 * ScaredyCat points at kristian-m's .openmoko dir Oct 16 13:40:11 i cant boot my mio with this kernel image Oct 16 13:41:00 kristian-m: it doesn't matter really, now that I know Ghiottone|work is working on it I can wait for his/her .bb :) Oct 16 13:41:02 ScaredyCat oh, right - well from 0.7 setup.py managed the dist-building process using lower() i suspect Oct 16 13:41:26 ScaredyCat okay, i bet he'll send you his .bb file Oct 16 13:41:42 * J-23 has started OpenMoko on QEMU :) Oct 16 13:41:46 it works! Oct 16 13:41:50 I'm happy to build it and add to my repo.. Oct 16 13:42:05 great :-) Oct 16 13:42:23 ScaredyCat: What's added to your rootfs that's not standard? Oct 16 13:42:37 gerbil droppings Oct 16 13:43:54 CM: pm list -> Oct 16 13:45:12 Is some network manager for OpenMoko? Oct 16 13:45:22 No. Oct 16 13:46:33 that plus an /etc/release, my repo conf and removing the startup and click sounds Oct 16 13:46:33 oops wrong window.. Oct 16 13:49:36 back Oct 16 13:49:55 scaredyCat settingsGui's bb is in production state already :P Oct 16 13:50:36 and SettingsGUI packages are already in my repo Oct 16 13:50:49 the bb files needs some patches, however Oct 16 13:51:05 yes, I'm wanting to build them with the other stuff Oct 16 13:51:59 s/stuff/stuff i build/ Oct 16 13:52:00 ScaredyCat meant: yes, I'm wanting to build them with the other stuff i build Oct 16 13:52:04 ok I can send a tarball for it if you want Oct 16 13:52:34 please Oct 16 13:52:37 s/for/of/ Oct 16 13:52:38 Ghiottone|work meant: ok I can send a tarball of it if you want Oct 16 13:52:55 I assume it's just the .bb and it'll grab the sources from kristian-m's site ? Oct 16 13:53:13 no Oct 16 13:53:19 there are additional files Oct 16 13:53:27 well.. if it would just not depend on that fat python interpreter ;) Oct 16 13:53:29 patches to his files Oct 16 13:53:46 How I can emulate or keyboard on OpenMoko? Oct 16 13:53:54 and .desktop and icon files Oct 16 13:54:09 j-23 call the keyboard? Oct 16 13:54:13 aren't those in the source tarball ? Oct 16 13:54:20 no Oct 16 13:55:36 hurrumph.. Oct 16 13:55:45 ? Oct 16 13:55:46 ok, send me tarball then :) Oct 16 13:56:00 e-mail? Oct 16 13:56:44 hey anyone at what port gsmd runs on? Oct 16 13:56:55 kiddo socket? Oct 16 13:57:19 bah, Oct 16 13:57:32 How I can start openmoko-keyboard? Oct 16 13:57:47 j-23 tap on the keyboard symbol? Oct 16 13:57:48 i ma trying to run this on the host, need to debug an error Oct 16 13:58:10 Thanks. Oct 16 13:59:53 roh well, it a pity we can't do anything about that ;-/ - but python is just too comfortable Oct 16 14:00:31 Ghiottone|work ScaredyCat if i can do anything to make live easier for you... - setup.py just needed some changes though Oct 16 14:00:36 roh that fat interpreter also fits pretty confortably on the sd card... Oct 16 14:02:04 kristian-m: I have no problem with your changes. Since you switched to setup.py the bb recipe is much simpler and adjusting the new version is a ten minutes work (not counting testing;) Oct 16 14:02:48 kristian-m: you planning to release a 0.8 soon? Oct 16 14:03:08 * ScaredyCat wiats 10 minutes :P Oct 16 14:03:54 Ghiottone|work okay, well there are not enough changes for a new release yet - i plan to increase startup time firt and use threads for gui updates first - maybe next week or so Oct 16 14:04:56 s/increase/reduce Oct 16 14:05:03 ehehe Oct 16 14:05:23 * ScaredyCat prods Ghiottone|work Oct 16 14:07:36 anyone here with administrative privs on the wiki? Oct 16 14:07:46 (sysadmin-like) Oct 16 14:07:51 ww: yes - why? Oct 16 14:07:53 ScaredyCat I had to create tarball and jump it on a few machines... now I've sent it Oct 16 14:07:54 (not me) Oct 16 14:08:43 might it be possible to change my username from Ww to ww? Oct 16 14:08:56 k, ta Ghiottone|work Oct 16 14:09:05 kristian-m: only a couple of things. I had to remove install-scripts from setup.cfg Oct 16 14:09:09 ww: I'm pretty sure that that's a bug - all pages have to have an initial cap. Oct 16 14:09:23 hello Oct 16 14:09:26 kristian-m: do you need it? Oct 16 14:09:44 ScaredyCat: no probs. let me know if you have problems Oct 16 14:09:47 my username doesn't work well with some wiki assumptions... i've had to patch moinmoin in the past ;) Oct 16 14:10:11 if I have problems I'll visit you while you sleep ;) Oct 16 14:11:03 SpeedEvil: i'm not so interested in pages as how i might appear in log messages, etc... Oct 16 14:12:09 :) Oct 16 14:13:11 ww: I don't think it can be fixed without patches to the running wiki. Oct 16 14:13:19 ww: which are basically not going to happen. Oct 16 14:14:55 i's the wiki backed by a sql database? if so a little update statement should do the trick... it's just bad defaulting on account creation. i'd be surprised if it was enforced anywhere Oct 16 14:16:19 ww: It's probbaly not. Oct 16 14:16:29 Ghiottone|work well if it works without - i don't - anyway i commented it out, in my sources, already Oct 16 14:16:47 ww: but the chances of getting anything at all done on the wiki which have to be reviewed which are not absolutely critical is close to zero. Oct 16 14:17:05 * CM thinks so too Oct 16 14:17:35 kristian-m: thanks. that's one of the patches needed for the recipe Oct 16 14:17:46 :( Oct 16 14:17:50 For one user - unless they are very, very special, zero. Oct 16 14:18:13 hi ww Oct 16 14:18:16 kristian-m: the other is about adding icon and .desktop file to setup.py but I think they logically fit better near the recipe Oct 16 14:19:27 ww well... i'd rather like not ask our admin to touch the database.. mediawiki is fucked up enough at it is ;) Oct 16 14:26:00 working with gsm on the qemu is kinda accurate right? Oct 16 14:27:57 * ScaredyCat wonders where Ghiottone|work's email went Oct 16 14:33:27 ? Oct 16 14:33:35 PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 no such address here Oct 16 14:34:00 * * OM Bug 936 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:34:01 * * Dialer doesn't display duration of call during call Oct 16 14:34:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=936 Oct 16 14:37:00 * * OM Bug 937 has been created by nikosverschore(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:37:01 * * Qemu doens't want to flash images Oct 16 14:37:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937 Oct 16 14:38:00 * * OM Bug 938 has been created by igorfoox(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:38:01 * * Excessive noise when making phone calls Oct 16 14:38:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=938 Oct 16 14:39:06 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3188 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (5 files): (log message trimmed) Oct 16 14:39:06 openmoko: Revert commits r3099 and r3101 to be able to follow the changes in 2.6.22: Oct 16 14:39:06 openmoko: (orig r3137): laforge | 2007-10-09 19:30:14 +0200 Oct 16 14:39:06 openmoko: Modify GTA01 vibrator and backlight driver to work on top of new s3c2410 generic pwm code Oct 16 14:39:06 openmoko: WARNING: this is untested and mainly just committed so shoragan can resolve Oct 16 14:39:10 openmoko: conflicts with his 2.6.23 work. Oct 16 14:39:12 openmoko: If you're bumping OE's srcrev for the kernel beyond this commit, please make sure that Oct 16 14:41:01 * * OM Bug 939 has been created by igorfoox(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:41:01 * * Can't add contact phone number when not connected to GSM network Oct 16 14:41:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=939 Oct 16 14:41:24 roflmao " WARNING: this is untested" .... isn;t that the same for mst stuff Oct 16 14:41:52 Ghiottone|work: hih! Oct 16 14:41:55 huh! Oct 16 14:42:04 * ScaredyCat double checke Oct 16 14:42:05 s Oct 16 14:43:00 Scaredy, it has been tested by now :) Oct 16 14:43:24 Ghiottone|work: cna you try agian .... Oct 16 14:44:07 ScaredyCat: uh? oh ok I'll send it again Oct 16 14:45:44 Hello :) Oct 16 14:46:07 anyone have problem compiling openmoko from scratch? Oct 16 14:46:17 I've found an openbug about uicmoc4-native Oct 16 14:46:55 and seems that the patch "#310" was not released yet Oct 16 14:48:11 there is any workaround to solve this problem? Oct 16 14:48:56 arrived Ghiottone|work Oct 16 14:49:01 * * OM Bug 940 has been created by igorfoox(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:49:02 * * Dialer cursor positioning is confusing Oct 16 14:49:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=940 Oct 16 14:49:37 the bug I speak about is 747 Oct 16 14:49:57 0.5 Ghiottone|work ?? Oct 16 14:50:04 what about 0.7b ! Oct 16 14:51:06 masterbrian: The workaround is listed on #747 Oct 16 14:51:59 ScaredyCat: uh? I sent you 0.7b ... I'll double check Oct 16 14:52:02 abraxa: the workaround speack about a patch Oct 16 14:52:22 masterbrian: Yeah, see the "attachments" box at the to Oct 16 14:52:22 abraxa: but I'm unable to find it.. I just know that it is #310 Oct 16 14:52:24 top* Oct 16 14:52:36 * ScaredyCat stares at _0.4.bb and _0.5.bb Oct 16 14:52:57 abraxa: ops... found :) Oct 16 14:53:00 ;) Oct 16 14:53:01 thx Oct 16 14:53:08 Hehe, what kidn of quit message is that? Oct 16 14:53:20 kind.. Oct 16 14:53:30 * CM is off to play some 8-ball instead Oct 16 14:53:37 ??? Oct 16 14:53:58 ScaredyCat I have sent you 0.7b where do you see the other versions? Oct 16 14:54:26 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3189 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch lis302dl.patch): Oct 16 14:54:26 openmoko: Follow changes in 2.6.22: Oct 16 14:54:26 openmoko: (orig r3144): laforge | 2007-10-10 18:23:20 +0200 Oct 16 14:54:26 openmoko: make lis302dl apply again (fallout from last commit, sorry) Oct 16 14:54:26 openmoko: (orig r3143): laforge | 2007-10-10 18:17:35 +0200 Oct 16 14:54:28 openmoko: fix non-fatal kernel oops during gta02 boot (spi bus number 0 was used twice) Oct 16 14:55:00 * * OM Bug 941 has been created by igorfoox(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:55:02 * * Kinetic scrolling is hard to use with fingers Oct 16 14:55:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=941 Oct 16 14:55:06 abraxa: there is any documentation about appling a patch to openmoko? Oct 16 14:56:31 masterbrian, that differs according on what you want to patchj Oct 16 14:57:03 masterbrian: Simply download/save the patch and do a "patch < moo.patch" in the MokoMakefile dir Oct 16 14:57:04 Shoragan: ok, and how I can apply it? Oct 16 14:57:11 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3190 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: Oct 16 14:57:11 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 14:57:11 openmoko: (orig r3155): laforge | 2007-10-13 03:03:57 +0200 Oct 16 14:57:11 openmoko: GTA02: add missing GPIO definitions for GTA02v1 .. GTA02v4 Oct 16 14:57:27 abraxa: thx I'll try Oct 16 14:57:52 masterbrain, what is the patch for? Oct 16 14:58:01 * * OM Bug 942 has been created by igorfoox(AT)gmail.com Oct 16 14:58:02 * * Hang-up button is badly placed Oct 16 14:58:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=942 Oct 16 14:58:14 nm Ghiottone|work - aliens stole my brain Oct 16 14:58:45 ScaredyCat what happened? Oct 16 14:58:47 abraxa it does not seems to work, it tell's me: can't find file to patch at input line 3 Oct 16 14:59:15 must have not overwritten the old versiobn Oct 16 14:59:21 masterbrian: Do you have a subdirectory named 'openembedded'? Oct 16 15:00:39 abraxa: yes Oct 16 15:01:23 masterbrian: Which of the two patches are you trying to apply? The one dated 2007-08-28 or 2007-09-15? Oct 16 15:02:02 abraxa: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=310&action=view Oct 16 15:02:17 abraxa: it should be #310... Oct 16 15:03:20 masterbrian: Yes, that should work. Well, you can just open openembedded/packages/uicmoc/uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb and add the sed command - I don't feel like debugging the patch problem right now ;) Oct 16 15:04:56 abraxa, done it now I've to restart to compile with "make all"? Oct 16 15:05:21 abraxa: sorry for bordering :) Oct 16 15:05:38 Just "make" would be enough - "all" probably builds stuff you don't need (never used "all" myself) Oct 16 15:05:40 No bother ;3 Oct 16 15:06:10 abraxa: thank you very much for your patience :) Oct 16 15:07:05 You're welcome, and don't forget to ask when you have problems Oct 16 15:07:20 I'll do it :D Oct 16 15:09:20 ScaredyCat is it working? Oct 16 15:12:39 abraxa: I've got the same problem :( Oct 16 15:12:49 ERROR: Build of /home/moko/openembedded/packages/uicmoc/uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb do_compile failed Oct 16 15:13:21 maybe I should make clean-package? Oct 16 15:13:34 because of ccache? Oct 16 15:14:11 I can try make clean-package-uicmoc4-native (as I do before) Oct 16 15:15:03 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3191 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (asoc-neo1973_wm8753-power.patch series): (log message trimmed) Oct 16 15:15:03 openmoko: Follow changes in 2.6.22: Oct 16 15:15:03 openmoko: (orig r3168): laforge | 2007-10-15 10:54:10 +0200 Oct 16 15:15:03 openmoko: add the asoc amplifier power down fix to the series Oct 16 15:15:03 openmoko: (orig r3167): laforge | 2007-10-15 10:48:09 +0200 Oct 16 15:15:05 openmoko: This patch fixes the current leak caused by not shutting down the audio Oct 16 15:15:09 openmoko: amplifier during suspend/resume and after power-down. See bug Oct 16 15:15:54 :) Oct 16 15:19:21 masterbrian: Yeah, try it - if that fails also, have a look at the logs in build/tmp/work/arm.../uicmoc4-native.../tmp/ Oct 16 15:19:33 ok Oct 16 15:20:13 this is the 18th time I've tryed to compile openmoko. one more, one less :) Oct 16 15:21:57 abraxa_: can you remind me of the sed and uicmoc native problem? Oct 16 15:21:57 masterbrian: btw, don't forget to re-apply the patch after cleaning Oct 16 15:22:04 XorA: Remind? Oct 16 15:22:08 Oh Oct 16 15:22:14 abraxa_: Im sure someone told me before, but I forget Oct 16 15:22:20 abraxa: of course I've forgot Oct 16 15:22:33 openmoko: 03mickey * r3192 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/startup_unintrusive.wav: starup_unintrusive.wav: normalize PCM wave Oct 16 15:23:37 while waiting, a question to the list about the wishlist for hw of neo1973: it will support umts? :) Oct 16 15:23:45 abraxa_: I should see about getting the fix into OE Oct 16 15:24:15 XorA: I take it you don't have time at the moment and want me to check back later? Oct 16 15:24:18 masterbrain, no Oct 16 15:24:35 abraxa_: Im working on OM at the moment, so now would be great Oct 16 15:24:57 XorA: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=310&action=view would be it then Oct 16 15:25:02 Shoragan that's bad.. the only way to connect to internet at a good is speed will be trough wifi? Oct 16 15:25:04 abraxa_: cheers Oct 16 15:25:12 Closes OM bug #747 Oct 16 15:25:40 masterbrian, or via bluetooth to an umts phone Oct 16 15:25:40 abraxa: after make clean-package-ecc the openembedded/packages/uicmoc/uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb still have the "patch" I've done manually Oct 16 15:25:53 there is simply no way to make such a change now Oct 16 15:26:08 Shoragan: I've suppose that neo1973 could replace any other phone I've Oct 16 15:26:50 umts is in the list for the next hardware Oct 16 15:27:10 oh, so IT IS in the list.. that sound very good! :) Oct 16 15:27:28 next as in after the one that hasn't been released yet :P Oct 16 15:27:36 but that will be different from the neo1973 Oct 16 15:27:42 XorA: Also, can you add the runtime depencenies of "gst-plugin-pulse" and "curl" to openmoko-mediaplayer2_svn.bb, please? Oct 16 15:27:47 hi guys, someone know why the receiver can't listen me? And when i make a call i can't hear the ring... Oct 16 15:27:56 phisically different? another phone? Oct 16 15:28:11 yes Oct 16 15:28:25 this mean I'll cannot upgrade from neo1973 :( Oct 16 15:29:05 gst-plugin-pulse needs to be added to openmoko-sound-system Oct 16 15:29:10 i already did that Oct 16 15:29:15 let me check whether this has been pushed Oct 16 15:29:26 Ahh okay Oct 16 15:32:49 pushed Oct 16 15:32:50 l8er Oct 16 15:32:56 Hmh, will there ever be a driver for the GTA01 GPS? Oct 16 15:33:15 Short of an open source rewrite that is, I mean a binary driver Oct 16 15:33:34 according to the lates messages nearly all issues witht he binaray driver have been resolved... Oct 16 15:33:41 mickey|dinner: Thanks, and enjoy :) Oct 16 15:33:44 thanks Oct 16 15:34:22 Mek: great Oct 16 15:34:27 Hadaka: the last message on community on that indicates that the binary driver should now be available (e.g. the licensing issues have been resolved) Oct 16 15:34:46 Henryk: even better! but I'll believe it when I can download the binary :) Oct 16 15:34:51 the only problem now is that there was a switch from OABI to EABI and the driver doesn't like that Oct 16 15:37:16 abraxa_: pushing uicmoc4-native fix now, it didnt break stuff here Oct 16 15:38:13 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3193 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (arm-atag-kexec.patch series): Oct 16 15:38:13 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 15:38:13 openmoko: (orig r3169): laforge | 2007-10-15 11:07:35 +0200 Oct 16 15:38:13 openmoko: Add patch to fix kexec() on ARM machines that need the ATAG structure to be Oct 16 15:38:13 openmoko: passed from the bootloader in order to properly boot. (Closes: Oct 16 15:38:17 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=930) Oct 16 15:38:20 XorA: Matter of fact, it fixed things on my side, hehe Oct 16 15:39:33 does anyone know of a prebuilt binary kernel/image later than r3166 - I'd like to get a kernel with the audio amp power leak fixed Oct 16 15:39:53 also, has anyone tried the uboot versions where the 40ms->100ms charging speed change has been made already? Oct 16 15:56:24 Can I use normal keyboard as OpenMoko keyboard on QEMU? Oct 16 15:59:14 J-23, if its for the shell, you could ssh into it Oct 16 16:00:21 Hmm... Oct 16 16:00:25 on Windows? Oct 16 16:01:15 no idea then Oct 16 16:06:42 J-23: on linux you can add keyboard emulation Oct 16 16:06:54 iirc qemu starting scripts even tell how Oct 16 16:08:02 but on Windows?... Oct 16 16:08:40 Is there a way to build an openmoko image that is known to build? Oct 16 16:08:50 I want to both 1) have sources, and 2) a working image. Oct 16 16:09:10 and yes, I realize that that inevitably means working with out-of-date sources. Oct 16 16:09:17 nelson: Use MokoMakefile and try :) Oct 16 16:09:19 * J-23 reboots to LiveCD Linux ;) Oct 16 16:09:24 abraxa_: have done and it doesn't. Oct 16 16:09:31 nelson: With what problem? Oct 16 16:09:58 currently? midori won't build. Earlier, mtpaint wouldn't build. Oct 16 16:10:19 nelson: Did you check OM and OE bugzillas? Oct 16 16:11:02 well, I was wanting code that builds, not having to fix code that is documented as not building. Oct 16 16:11:54 I want to paint the wall, not fix the foundation. Oct 16 16:12:05 Unfortunately that can't happen as of now Oct 16 16:13:23 brb Oct 16 16:14:34 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3194 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): (log message trimmed) Oct 16 16:14:34 openmoko: Follow changes in 2.6.22: Oct 16 16:14:34 openmoko: (orig r3173): laforge | 2007-10-15 14:49:23 +0200 Oct 16 16:14:34 openmoko: increase vibrator PWM frequency to 257kHz (66MHz / 2 / 2 / 64) to be outside Oct 16 16:14:34 openmoko: the human-audible range. It's a vibrator, not a 4kHz beeper! Oct 16 16:14:36 abraxa_: hrm. Then how does anybody actually manage to reflash their phone with a working image? Pure luck? Oct 16 16:14:37 openmoko: (orig r3171): laforge | 2007-10-15 12:54:10 +0200 Oct 16 16:14:40 openmoko: S3c24xx timer4 doesn't have PWM support, so don't even try to use it for that. Oct 16 16:15:10 "Hey, everybody! The image is building right now! Quick, rebuild and reflash!" Oct 16 16:15:26 That seems insane to me, so I speculate that that's not how it works, and I'm doing something wrong. Oct 16 16:15:38 nelson: Tons (most?) people here use public repositories and don't build images themselves Oct 16 16:16:22 abraxa_: oh, you mean they download an image and install packages from a binary feed? Oct 16 16:16:46 nelson: Exactly Oct 16 16:17:02 Oh, so the instructions for MokoMakeFile are wrong? Oct 16 16:17:09 Not at all Oct 16 16:17:29 but if you can't build an image except through luck, how is that not wrong? Oct 16 16:17:31 MokoMakefile is for those who don't want to use readymade images/ipkg feeds Oct 16 16:18:14 nelson, trust me, have some patience to get it built successfully...once you get your image built, successive builds go without a hitch Oct 16 16:18:41 So how to port my application when it depends on various libraries only available for development in source form? Oct 16 16:19:37 nelson, may i know what libraries...just curious Oct 16 16:19:48 Or is the key to NOT try to build an image, but instead simply to build my package and not worry that the image won't build. Oct 16 16:19:56 nelson: If your build doesn't go through you can build those dependencies manually using MokoMakefile's "build-package-foo" targets Oct 16 16:20:05 * ScaredyCat hides in the bushes Oct 16 16:20:19 * Sup3rkiddo puts a dog in the bush Oct 16 16:20:51 Sup3rkiddo: boost, among others. Oct 16 16:21:20 ouch, thats big, isnt it Oct 16 16:21:34 yep. pretty essential. Oct 16 16:21:37 * ScaredyCat appears Oct 16 16:21:51 So it sounds like I should only worry about my dependencies building and not everything else that goes in the image. Oct 16 16:22:06 And then later, when somebody is building the image + packages, my stuff will "just work". Oct 16 16:22:13 * nelson prays to the software gods. Oct 16 16:22:22 nelson, yes, may the source be with you Oct 16 16:22:42 * nelson tries not to worry excessively. Oct 16 16:22:53 nelson: That approach sounds quite reasonable to me Oct 16 16:23:33 abraxa_: thanks for the reassurance. All pats on the back appreciated. Oct 16 16:23:48 * Sup3rkiddo spanks on the back Oct 16 16:24:19 nelson: I essentially follow the same approach, so... Oct 16 16:24:46 * Sup3rkiddo raises his hands too Oct 16 16:26:40 Is this documented somewhere? Perhaps on the MokoMakeFile wiki page? Oct 16 16:26:43 * nelson goes looking. Oct 16 16:27:18 nelson: No, as the situation is only temporary Oct 16 16:27:44 unless you develop a system for building and rebuilding to get the same thing with OE, the situation is permanent. Oct 16 16:27:48 nelson: In the long run, OM will tie down package versions and not run on OE head Oct 16 16:28:02 right, that's necessary for sanity. Oct 16 16:28:19 Yeah, the OM/OE folks just didn't get to it yet Oct 16 16:28:56 nelson: the OE guys are very serious about reproducible buildability, so this is actually an OM problem, not an OE one Oct 16 16:30:17 huh? Oct 16 16:30:38 don't oe control the .bb repo... Oct 16 16:31:24 for example, midori seems to die due to some webkit changes... Oct 16 16:31:27 I read that they will be releasing stable branches as the OE repo is changing too fast Oct 16 16:31:31 that's not an om issue Oct 16 16:31:51 but it will happen early next year Oct 16 16:31:53 Ghiottone|work: good new Oct 16 16:31:54 a Oct 16 16:31:59 s Oct 16 16:32:12 yeah Oct 16 16:32:31 at least they get the fact that it's pretty insane to develop where th goalposts move all the time Oct 16 16:32:37 hi Oct 16 16:33:06 PBeck: ! Oct 16 16:34:13 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3195 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: Oct 16 16:34:13 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 16:34:13 openmoko: (orig r3174): laforge | 2007-10-15 14:50:15 +0200 Oct 16 16:34:13 openmoko: the spi bus is number 2 (0+1 are s3c24xx internal spi0 and spi1) Oct 16 16:34:23 abraxa_: stop giving away the secrets of my job :-) Oct 16 16:35:26 * abraxa_ falls on his knees and begs for forgiveness Oct 16 16:35:43 XorA: did you see the slowness now? Oct 16 16:35:59 Henryk: yes, its insane Oct 16 16:38:07 but at least you'll be able to use your "Texas Instruments 916 VDT 8859/1 8 bit control 132 column mode" with the Neo :-) And any other obscure terminal type the humanity ever heard about Oct 16 16:39:38 hi ScaredyCat :) Oct 16 16:42:42 Henryk: New termcaps file? Oct 16 16:43:22 abraxa_: i have a short shell magic which extracts only a given subset of lines from the huge termcap file (e.g. all relating to xterms) Oct 16 16:43:34 i must say: AWESOME decision to go with Atmel GPS Oct 16 16:43:57 thus you'll get the size down from 700k to 7k, and parse time down from 15s to nil Oct 16 16:44:10 Henryk: Nice - I hope it'll let me use Eterm, too ;) Oct 16 16:44:38 abraxa_: should be easy to add terminal types upon request Oct 16 16:44:53 * abraxa_ raises his hand - Eterm request here :D Oct 16 16:45:54 abraxa_: maybe check first whether eterm really needs termcap. the manpage says that termcap basically is obsolete and people should use terminfo Oct 16 16:46:16 vte needs termcap. screen works with terminfo but will parse termcap if it's there Oct 16 16:49:11 Henryk: How can I check? It wasn't recognized by OM's termcap file but did so after I replaced it with a more complete one Oct 16 16:49:29 hello Oct 16 16:49:45 is the gscpa webcam driver working on the neo? Oct 16 16:49:51 abraxa_: remove /etc/termcap and check whether it still works Oct 16 16:50:52 Henryk: Nope, doesn't Oct 16 16:51:01 thomasg: no Oct 16 16:51:07 thmo: well - it's not installed. Oct 16 16:51:08 abraxa_: pity Oct 16 16:51:17 Henryk: Indeed Oct 16 16:51:20 thomasg: there is no reason why it shouldn't work if you compile it. Oct 16 16:51:58 ok Oct 16 16:52:09 i want to connect a webcam to it wenn i have one Oct 16 16:52:18 can i test it in qemu as well Oct 16 16:52:26 SpeedEvil: you don't mean me :) Oct 16 16:52:35 so when it works in wemu it works i real too? Oct 16 16:52:37 Now, that's just silly. Oct 16 16:53:15 Henryk: Any chance of inclusion in your scripts? Oct 16 16:53:25 abraxa_: figure out which termcap entry is needed and add a comment to http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3075 Oct 16 16:53:33 Henryk: Woot, thanks :) Oct 16 16:54:03 currently i cannot boot with qemu Oct 16 16:54:08 should probably only need to change grep ^xterm into grep ^(xterm|whatever|more) Oct 16 16:55:13 ? Oct 16 16:55:56 afc for 1h Oct 16 17:00:24 can anyone point me to a working openmoko/flash.sh, its been borked in my case for weeks Oct 16 17:01:24 what's flash.sh? Oct 16 17:03:25 hi Michael Oct 16 17:03:41 hi roh Oct 16 17:04:50 oops sorry, flash.sh, which makefile uses to flash qemu Oct 16 17:21:49 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3196 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta01-backlight.patch gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): (log message trimmed) Oct 16 17:21:51 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 17:21:53 openmoko: (orig r3179): laforge | 2007-10-15 18:44:08 +0200 Oct 16 17:21:55 openmoko: s3c2410_pwm: Oct 16 17:21:57 openmoko: * change structure name into one without _t suffix (it's not a typedef, thank god) Oct 16 17:22:01 openmoko: * don't allocate the pwm structure within s3c2410_pwm code, but rather embed it Oct 16 17:22:03 openmoko: into other structures Oct 16 17:22:09 * ScaredyCat hides in the bushes Oct 16 17:23:38 * ScaredyCat appears Oct 16 17:24:43 * ScaredyCat hides in the bushes Oct 16 17:24:54 * mwester wonders what's going on outside in his bushes, and lets his dog outside. Oct 16 17:24:55 "Kids running around naked..." Oct 16 17:28:03 * ScaredyCat appears Oct 16 17:49:07 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3197 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch gta02-leds.patch gta02-leds.patch series): Oct 16 17:49:07 openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: Oct 16 17:49:07 openmoko: (orig r3181): laforge | 2007-10-15 18:44:47 +0200 Oct 16 17:49:07 openmoko: Add GTA02 LED driver as well as required platform devices/resources Oct 16 17:57:33 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3198 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/arm-atag-kexec.patch: Port arm-atag-kexec.patch to 2.6.23 Oct 16 18:01:06 hi all Oct 16 18:47:45 re Oct 16 19:02:02 evening. everyone prepared for this evening's stupid question? Oct 16 19:02:36 don't ask to ask, just ask ;) Oct 16 19:04:15 OK. I have debugboard and a bricked neo. I can get to a point where "lsusb -v -d 0x1457:" gives me both the board and the neo....does this mean I can use dfu-util (boot, kernel, fs) without resorting to OCD? Oct 16 19:05:06 hrmmm Oct 16 19:06:00 i have been struck by the (logged by LaForge) Factory Reset bug Oct 16 19:06:29 for dfu-util you need to have a semi-working uboot in console mode. Makes itself known as a /dev/ttyACM* device in dmesg Oct 16 19:06:38 and I'm a little scared of OCD as there's a lot of old snapshot ref's (august?) plus it's bv2 not bv4 like my neo Oct 16 19:07:27 uboot may only wait a few seconds in console mode until booting the kernel Oct 16 19:08:13 CoreDump, I can "see" /dev/ttyACM but neither screen/minicom/cu do anything when attaching Oct 16 19:08:35 hmm that is not good I guess :\ Oct 16 19:08:46 your uboot is in console / upgrade mode? Oct 16 19:09:27 I will look for the bug ref Oct 16 19:10:17 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 Oct 16 19:11:30 CoreDump, I should point out that I also class myself as a complete n00b at this level....I only wanted to mess with some app's and maybe do some themes. luckily I shelled out on the advanced! Oct 16 19:13:31 heh Oct 16 19:13:47 well, you sure you got hit by this bug? Oct 16 19:14:47 Can you flash a new uboot? Oct 16 19:15:05 I got put on an order waiting list, read and re-read the wiki, get things running in Qemu, wait....wait...wait...it arrives. I follow instructions....it's dead :( Oct 16 19:15:09 If you start the neo by holding in aux, can you then flash a new kernel for instance? Oct 16 19:15:13 but! i get to learn lots!! Oct 16 19:15:23 guri: That's the spirit! :) Oct 16 19:15:50 CM nope. i can't even connect to it. that's the bug. No console from bad uboot env Oct 16 19:16:25 then it is time to recover the env via debug board I'm afraid :\ Oct 16 19:16:40 at least I dunno what else you could try w/o uboot access Oct 16 19:16:46 * guri will not be beaten by mere circuits....only a 6 foot 4 meathead can do that Oct 16 19:17:13 ok a 3 foot 2 featherweight Oct 16 19:17:23 =) Oct 16 19:17:59 my only problem w/ the debug board was installing the driver for it and modprobing it w/ proper options Oct 16 19:18:04 CoreDump, that is my current task. I'm having a few "i'm an idiot" issues getting everything set up. Oct 16 19:18:29 CoreDump, me too. I'm pretty sure that's cool now. So my fear is the OCD config Oct 16 19:18:53 the fact that you are a) here and b) ask intelligent questions proves that you are no idiot but a newbie ;) Oct 16 19:18:55 all the references are to bv2 and I have bv4 and the Snapshot dates are way older than my device Oct 16 19:19:21 guri: I can't access the console either, since my env is borked Oct 16 19:19:26 guri: But I can flash it anyway Oct 16 19:19:33 Guess it's a different error then Oct 16 19:19:38 CoreDump, just questioning my own intelligence really. + everyone is very helpful here Oct 16 19:19:48 guri: did you try dfu-util? Oct 16 19:20:04 CM. yes I remember you saying. Oct 16 19:20:21 guri: Yes, if you start it by holding in aux, and have it plugged in to the comp, what does dfu-util -l say? Oct 16 19:20:22 well, wait, flashing a new uboot would _not_ fix the env Oct 16 19:20:35 CM, my problem is that bootloader is not responding after I somehow di something wrong on the 1st flash, then did Factory reset. Oct 16 19:20:40 CoreDump: No, but on the latest uboots the console output is default Oct 16 19:20:46 that Factory Reset apparently gives you a bad boot env Oct 16 19:21:07 so now I have to do the whole low-level-foo stuff :( Oct 16 19:21:10 guri: Ok. Ouch.. (Sorry for being slow getting that part) Oct 16 19:21:15 CM s'OK Oct 16 19:21:41 every time I come here and explain the situation in full. someone says "ouch" :) Oct 16 19:23:15 so....I have to 1. be able to talk to the debug board, so I can 2. get it to do the low-level boot, so that it can then 3. load a u-boot that works, so I can then 4. flash it *properly* Oct 16 19:23:18 guri: just don't wave your arms so empathically? ;) Oct 16 19:23:46 there's steps 5-1093444 too Oct 16 19:24:01 viq meh ;) Oct 16 19:25:27 basically you want "./devirginate -1" Oct 16 19:26:13 CoreDump, yeah. I kinda want to see what I'm doing though now I've come this far. I'm sure I will drink some beer and then just go with it in the end. Oct 16 19:26:54 stay away from a ./devirginate w/o parameters or ./devirginate - Oct 16 19:26:59 -0 Oct 16 19:28:01 thanks. Oct 16 19:29:48 BTW: http://planet.openmoko.org/ is missing the OM favicon Oct 16 19:30:05 guri: good luck ;) Oct 16 19:31:27 CoreDump, I'm building myself up for a Sunday night success. Life & Work in the way.... Oct 16 19:31:49 Free unbricking to anyone in the UK when it's working...if you come to Bristol Oct 16 19:42:15 =) Oct 16 19:47:07 to bad the debug cable is rather fragile Oct 16 19:49:13 btw: any news on a GPS driver? Oct 16 19:50:12 wtf! Oct 16 19:50:19 supersmoker.nl Oct 16 19:51:07 :) Oct 16 19:52:03 ? Oct 16 19:53:31 like a vaporizer Oct 16 20:09:04 Hmm.. openmoko-browser2 crashed Oct 16 20:09:44 openmoko work with bluetooth audio for cars? Oct 16 20:09:59 I Don't think anyone has tried that yet Oct 16 20:10:15 But it should work if configured correctly :-) Oct 16 20:11:08 sweet! Oct 16 20:11:42 and what's the scoop with mail/web browsers? Oct 16 20:11:52 CM: Is your Neo on? Oct 16 20:12:00 abraxa_: Sure is Oct 16 20:12:12 Just tried to get the openmoko-browser2 working Oct 16 20:12:13 I'm looking for something nominally functional, but am willing to be on the edge Oct 16 20:12:29 CM: If I remember correctly a "hcitool dev" will show the profiles supported by the BT chipset, can you try? Oct 16 20:12:38 (my BT is broken) Oct 16 20:12:39 seanc: It's all a bit unstable right now. Webkit is constantly changeing Oct 16 20:13:09 abraxa_: That only gives me hci0 00:06:6E:14:4B:FD Oct 16 20:13:17 CM: can I make/receive calls? Oct 16 20:13:40 (is there a page that has all of these FAQ's?) Oct 16 20:13:50 seanc: Yes, I can. Right now I only get "You need to refill your card" because I've run out of credits.. :P Oct 16 20:13:57 faq? Oct 16 20:14:09 aloril: What's up with that script? Oct 16 20:14:43 CM: "hciconfig up; hciconfig features"? Oct 16 20:14:51 seanc: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Oct 16 20:14:51 CM: frequently asked questions - I'm thinking about switching from at&t to verizon and am contemplating Q vs. neo Oct 16 20:15:36 seanc: I know what you meant, just that aloril used to have an auto-trigger when you typed faq? to show the url to it :) Oct 16 20:15:47 CM: ah! :) Oct 16 20:15:57 I tried to be lazy.. ;) Oct 16 20:16:06 * seanc was dumbfounded for a second when I saw 'faq?' *grin* Oct 16 20:16:43 abraxa_: http://rafb.net/p/XdU44m15.html Oct 16 20:16:51 faq Oct 16 20:17:01 Guess he turned off that trigger completely Oct 16 20:17:17 Does GTA03 have a camera? Oct 16 20:18:11 s/does/will/ ? Oct 16 20:18:59 CM: Ah, "hcitool info 00:06:6E:14:4B:FD" should be it actually Oct 16 20:19:14 abraxa_: http://rafb.net/p/fIMLV313.html Oct 16 20:19:18 that one is better Oct 16 20:19:25 Yeah :) Oct 16 20:19:29 Thanks Oct 16 20:20:06 np, was just a bit slow figuring out the command ;) Oct 16 20:23:20 seanc: You'll want the HFP (Hands Free Profile) for BlueTooth to use a phone in the car properly - the BlueZ wiki says: "Work is on the way to support HFP 1.5. As it is a complicated beast to tackle, there is a specific design page." Oct 16 20:23:46 In other words: not even the general Linux Bluetooth stack has it yet but when it will, the Neo will, too Oct 16 20:24:40 abraxa_: alright, cool... I'll have to keep my eye on this Oct 16 20:25:16 seanc: You can however use the Headset Profile (HSP) already as it's supported by BlueZ - not quite the same but I guess it's sufficient Oct 16 20:25:40 abraxa_: I don't have any headsets - only handsfree in my car :) Oct 16 20:25:49 Dang Oct 16 20:26:02 abraxa_: yeah :-/ Oct 16 20:26:08 (Side note: who the heck needs WAP over Bluetooth...) Oct 16 20:26:42 abraxa_ && CM: Thx! Oct 16 20:26:52 abraxa_, WAP over whut? Oct 16 20:30:00 * * OM Bug 943 has been created by cm(AT)acc.umu.se Oct 16 20:30:01 * * openmoko-browser2 segfaults when trying to open an url Oct 16 20:30:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=943 Oct 16 22:11:26 * ljp stretches Oct 16 22:11:34 hi bluelightning_ Oct 16 22:12:41 hi ljp Oct 16 22:17:48 morning Oct 16 22:18:24 hi Oct 16 22:18:56 * rwhitby is in week three of a four week business trip in the US. Oct 16 22:19:46 lucky you.. Oct 16 22:19:50 * ljp snickers Oct 16 22:19:52 ljp: does qtopia have that background-noise issue that was reported earlier this week? Oct 16 22:20:14 Vegar: it depends on the gmshandset.state that is used Oct 16 22:20:19 I think Oct 16 22:20:20 ljp: the worst thing so far: walking into Fry's and walking out not buying a thing. Oct 16 22:20:31 oh. Fry's is awesome Oct 16 22:20:42 usually, but not this time. Oct 16 22:20:53 rwhitby: How is that the worst thing? Oct 16 22:20:55 the consumer electronics market is currently uninspiring. Oct 16 22:21:15 abraxa_: There are no Fry's in Australia, so it's a once a year thing. Oct 16 22:21:24 ljp: this one: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=938 Oct 16 22:21:34 and I expect to walk out with some cool new gadget to hack or play with. Oct 16 22:21:39 rwhitby: Well yeah, but how is it a bad thing not to buy something? :) Oct 16 22:21:43 Ahh, okay Oct 16 22:21:48 Makes sense then ;3 Oct 16 22:22:15 Vegar: not real sure. havent tested fro that just yet Oct 16 22:22:20 ok Oct 16 22:22:31 The only new gadget I've got this trip is an ipod nano 3g. and it's not hackable at all. Oct 16 22:22:37 (I didn't pay for it) Oct 16 22:22:40 ljp: I just thought it would be interesting to know whether it was a software or a hardware issue Oct 16 22:23:04 might try fiddling with alsamixer Oct 16 22:23:41 rwhitby: Welp, you know that's a sign. Work more on OpenMoko :) Oct 16 22:24:09 I have the Neo with me, and even an NSLU2 to reflash it. Oct 16 22:24:20 Awesome Oct 16 22:24:24 "Portable Devirgination Kit" Oct 16 22:24:41 all is powered from the laptop USB Oct 16 22:24:57 actually, I can't devirginate, just dfu-util. Oct 16 22:26:32 the flex cable on the debug board is just to fragile to carry halfway around the world and back Oct 16 22:26:38 s/to/too/ Oct 16 22:26:39 rwhitby meant: the flex cable on the debug board is just too fragile to carry halfway around the world and back Oct 16 22:27:21 Indeed Oct 16 22:28:46 I wonder if I should get a debug board with my GTA02 Oct 16 22:29:42 Vegar: What country are you in? Oct 16 22:29:46 i wish apm gave back useful info on remaining battery Oct 16 22:29:56 abraxa_: Norway Oct 16 22:31:04 Vegar: Tough call, though I would assume there will be several peeps in Norway with a debug board, too Oct 16 22:31:19 Vegar: GTA02 debug board is almost useless. Oct 16 22:31:41 Vegar: there is inbuilt flash that you can only flash with the debug board that is a backup uboot Oct 16 22:32:38 ljp: ballpark. 80%=90%, 50%=5%. I've got a patch to greatly improve runtime detection, but it's on a unconnected disk drive ast the moment. Oct 16 22:33:09 SpeedEvil: a builtin uboot-backup in the neo? Oct 16 22:33:11 SpeedEvil: Oh right, you make a valid point... I totally forgot about that Oct 16 22:33:11 ljp: I've recently bought a large drive, and am shuffling data around slowly. Oct 16 22:33:19 Vegar: yes Oct 16 22:33:30 Vegar: it utterly cannot be written withouyt the debug board. Oct 16 22:33:40 SpeedEvil: so bricking is almost impossible? Oct 16 22:33:57 Without the debug board, a brick is a hardware problem. Oct 16 22:34:05 Not anything you did yo it with softwre. Oct 16 22:34:12 to it Oct 16 22:34:15 interesting Oct 16 22:34:36 how would I re-flash uboot when I break it? Oct 16 22:34:46 would the thing that runs before uboot take care of that? Oct 16 22:34:47 as I understand it. Oct 16 22:34:59 The thing usually boots from the secured flash Oct 16 22:35:06 then transfers over to the main u-boot Oct 16 22:35:17 So it's presumably a case of holding a button down Oct 16 22:36:06 ahh Oct 16 22:36:08 that's pretty cool Oct 16 22:37:57 unless there's a bug in the secure-flash uboot Oct 16 22:38:47 Well - unless the implementation is broken - it should do what it did at first. Oct 16 22:39:02 So even if it's missing some features it should sort-of-work. Oct 16 22:39:19 yeah Oct 16 22:51:43 Hi all! Is it possible to install openmoko on other cell-phones? I really like the Helio Ocean hardware, but I'm not sure if anyone's tried to install moko on it... Oct 16 22:52:46 monkeyBox: I'd check if anyone else got linux to boot/run on it yet - if so, chances are good that OpenMoko will run as well Oct 16 22:54:59 abraxa_: do you have an openmoko phone? Oct 16 22:55:39 A Neo, yeah Oct 16 22:55:52 I'm in the market for a new phone, and an open-source phone sounds awesome, but that thing looks so thick :-p Oct 16 22:56:16 is the Neo the latest one, or is that the 1973? Oct 16 22:56:35 That's the Neo1973, yep Oct 16 22:56:54 Well, I personally think it's very handy Oct 16 22:57:01 Not too big, not too small Oct 16 22:57:36 Sure, the iPhone offers similar features on less space but for that they needed to make the battery non-replacable Oct 16 23:03:07 handy in a physical sense Oct 16 23:03:13 but .. not quite a phone, not yet at least Oct 16 23:08:25 anrp: Yes, handy in the physical sense :) Oct 16 23:09:58 it's almost a phone now Oct 16 23:11:23 Mine's the best cell phone I've got now... Oct 16 23:11:44 Just have to keep it plugged in, and so when I'm out I end up out of battery before getting in... Oct 16 23:12:04 But my other cell phone now disconnects whenever I flip it open to answer a call... Oct 16 23:13:13 Hmm. Slowing mobile sales (ericsonn) Oct 16 23:14:08 maybe people are getting tired of buying new phones every six months? Oct 16 23:14:10 I suppose over the last few years there has always been new users propping up stagnant sales figures. Oct 16 23:14:38 But now there are no new users in the west. Oct 16 23:14:54 Well - 1/60th of the population/year Oct 16 23:22:17 anyone know the low end of battvolt? Oct 16 23:22:58 ljp: SpeedEvil does ;) Oct 16 23:24:15 hey ljp Oct 16 23:24:19 hey Oct 16 23:25:21 ljp: 2800 or a bit above and the battery will hard-cut off. Oct 16 23:25:25 s/battery/phone. Oct 16 23:25:30 ljp: ballpark. Oct 16 23:25:34 4200 = 100% Oct 16 23:25:39 4000=90% Oct 16 23:25:48 3600=20% Oct 16 23:25:55 3400=5% Oct 16 23:27:19 * anrp smells millivolts! Oct 16 23:35:33 SpeedEvil is there a table or graph of that somewhere? Oct 16 23:36:37 it looks like mV to me Oct 16 23:36:44 just look up li-ion chemistry Oct 16 23:36:53 terminal voltage is very well correlated with SoC Oct 16 23:37:01 after accounting for internal resistance from current draw Oct 16 23:37:01 It is. Oct 16 23:37:38 kristian-m: yes. Oct 16 23:37:54 kristian-m: google 'lithium-ion' charge graph Oct 16 23:38:36 I've got a nice curve fit patch including battery age and wear, ... Oct 16 23:38:42 SpeedEvil ah should have known - it the same for every li-ion:-) Oct 16 23:39:00 Hopefully I should get it setup within the week. Oct 16 23:39:29 Another drive would make this so much easier. Oct 17 00:25:15 anrp: what did you mean by "not quite a phone yet"? Oct 17 00:27:13 monkeyBox: perhaps that with OM - it's inferior to a nokia 1100 in almost every way? Oct 17 00:27:25 (as a phone) Oct 17 00:27:43 what's "OM" ? Oct 17 00:27:49 OpenMoko Oct 17 00:28:03 The operating system on the Neo1973 phone Oct 17 00:28:21 oh Oct 17 00:28:31 * monkeyBox just googled nokia 1100 Oct 17 00:28:57 (it's the base model of nokia, with a small B+W screen) Oct 17 00:29:02 how could OM be inferior to nokia 1100, even as a phone? Oct 17 00:29:15 Because the software is in pre-alpha at the moment. Oct 17 00:29:16 I mean, as long as you can dial a number and talk... Oct 17 00:29:22 No SMS Oct 17 00:29:28 monkeyBox, because you can't very reliably... Oct 17 00:29:33 Terrible battery life. Oct 17 00:30:20 (terrible as in some 6h standby) Oct 17 00:31:22 howdy all Oct 17 00:31:24 SpeedEvil: Are there any good (reliable) reviews out there on OpenMoko? I'm having trouble finding anything that gives good pro's and con's Oct 17 00:31:35 perhaps it's because OM isn't quite ready for primetime? Oct 17 00:31:46 Pros: Open. Oct 17 00:31:52 monkeyBox: basically it's not in a reviewable state Oct 17 00:31:56 Cons: No working phone, gps, everything else. Oct 17 00:32:05 monkeyBox: it's several months at best away from being there. Oct 17 00:32:11 oh, wow Oct 17 00:32:32 GPS should work in the next week or so - legally apparently. Oct 17 00:32:56 their website doesn't seem to allude to that :-p Oct 17 00:33:33 oh, I misread Oct 17 00:33:35 * sagacis_ crosses his fingers that GPS works in the US Oct 17 00:33:38 The webstore site had problems. Oct 17 00:33:38 it does allude to that :) Oct 17 00:33:44 sagacis_: GPS is worldwide. Oct 17 00:34:04 SpeedEvil: Yes, but so's GSM, however, without 850, it only sorta works. ;) Oct 17 00:34:32 * sagacis_ is just being whiney. Oct 17 00:34:59 gps is also the same freqs worldwide, not the US doing their own thing yet again (because, well, it is their own thing :] ) Oct 17 00:39:37 "works" in this case refers to broken licensing, not broken technology Oct 17 00:41:59 bummer, looks like I came into the market for a cellphone a little early :) Oct 17 00:42:12 sounds like it could be a kickass phone before too long Oct 17 01:04:23 So, considering that openmoko is not ready for the public yet, what would you all consider to be "next best thing" ? Oct 17 01:06:13 a cheap-ass phone to bide the time Oct 17 01:08:08 for another year and a half? Oct 17 01:08:27 I worry that the neo will be outdated by the time it's generally available to the public Oct 17 01:08:59 Maybe I should just wait until someone figures out how to install linux on the helio ocean ;-) Oct 17 01:22:57 i don't think a phone with wifi and touchscreen with open platform will be outdated by december Oct 17 01:25:07 the software will be completely ready be Dec.? Oct 17 01:25:26 thats when gta02 ships supposedly Oct 17 01:25:39 according to old info, correct? Oct 17 01:25:50 i dunno Oct 17 01:25:53 well, I think that non-3G phone is slightly outdated already Oct 17 01:27:13 i haven't seen anything on the neo doing sip over wlan..? i think is a definately posible.. right? Oct 17 01:29:14 No. Oct 17 01:29:18 There is no W Oct 17 01:29:29 As to GTA02 - sure. Oct 17 01:29:48 jej, i forgot about that. Oct 17 01:29:54 well i hope so! Oct 17 01:45:00 qtopia has voip enabled. but I havent tested it Oct 17 01:45:04 on the neo Oct 17 01:56:07 moo Oct 17 01:56:19 moo-ya Oct 17 02:01:12 Do we know if the gsm firmware update will resolve the 850-band issue? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 17 02:59:56 2007