**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 22 02:59:56 2007 Oct 22 03:01:27 What firmware? Oct 22 03:02:45 * mwester knows that his GSM modem downloaded an SMS some weeks ago, and that it's supposed to be waiting on his SIM, but there doesn't seem to be an app that displays same... :( Oct 22 03:05:56 mwester: moko current (no GUI though) Oct 22 03:06:11 mwester: in the terminal, libgsmd-tool -m shell Oct 22 03:06:20 mwester: then sl=1 Oct 22 03:06:53 Ah, ok. I'll see if it's still there... Oct 22 04:24:32 Morning Oct 22 04:35:18 morning Oct 22 04:37:03 I've been behind the times on OpenMoko. How are things progressing? Is the 07.10 stack and the ability to create a pdp context complete ? Oct 22 04:37:46 high-rez: pdp? Oct 22 04:38:06 pdp context Oct 22 04:38:30 gprs? Oct 22 04:38:35 Yeah Oct 22 04:39:17 I don't know about that yet, haven't heard any buzz about it Oct 22 04:39:22 E.g. a data session (where here's a GTP tunnel from the SGSN to the GGSN) Oct 22 04:40:12 Heh, I know those abbreviations but I've actually never heard pdp context before Oct 22 04:40:26 Maybe because I learned all that stuff in swedish ;) Oct 22 04:40:49 Ericsson guy? Oct 22 04:40:58 Or just normal swedish? :) Oct 22 04:41:10 Only thesis work there, 6 months ;) Oct 22 04:41:27 Ahh. Oct 22 04:41:50 Worked with video calls. UMTS is totally different.. Oct 22 04:42:08 Yeah, on the radio level at least. Oct 22 04:42:15 Yes Oct 22 04:44:22 On the Gn side we treat it the same (e.g. the same GGSNs service wcdma and gprs/edge connections) Oct 22 04:45:16 We did a video proxy connected to the ggsn for recieving 3g video calls to 112 emergency call center Oct 22 04:46:06 Emergency video calls. That's pretty damned cool. :) Oct 22 04:46:17 "My wife stabbed me. Here, do you see this?" Oct 22 04:46:29 That was 2.5 years ago, and it's still not in production :/ Oct 22 04:46:37 They are stil working on it though Oct 22 04:46:42 Such is the industry. Oct 22 04:46:54 Only in sweden there's 20.000 deaf people who can't call Oct 22 04:47:21 Most networks don't have proper location based services available yet, i'm sure emergency video calls are pretty far off. Oct 22 04:47:33 And sure, our thesis work was a bit of a hack, but it could route calls in and out from the call centre, between phones and have mulitple viewers and also save the calls in a database Oct 22 04:47:42 Here (in the US) the infrastructure changes required would be pretty massive. Oct 22 04:47:48 *nod* Oct 22 04:48:21 Btw, in regard to OpenMoko, there's been a lot of updates all around Oct 22 04:48:46 gsmd seems to work most of the time for regular calls at least, and a lot of apps have been updated. The browser added and so on Oct 22 04:49:09 All from the GUI? Data over GPRS is fine then ? Oct 22 04:49:39 Don't know about that yet Oct 22 04:50:52 Hmm... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS Oct 22 04:51:30 Yeah, I read hat. Looks like it's quite a bit off. ;) Oct 22 04:52:13 I'm afraid so too Oct 22 04:53:10 * CM is off to work Oct 22 05:34:00 * * OM Bug 952 has been created by rolyataylor2(AT)yahoo.com Oct 22 05:34:01 * * Just some cool ideas I have been joting down. Oct 22 05:34:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=952 Oct 22 05:40:02 Hehe... Strange bug report, especially the last paragraph :D Oct 22 05:44:04 CM, lol Oct 22 05:44:59 mbuf: Don't forget to thank me too, I also have lots of great ideas like facebook integration! :P Oct 22 05:46:20 CM, it would be nice if the OM team could prepare a video for newbies, on howto get started; something that they can watch and follow instructions; something like a product release video Oct 22 05:46:49 mbuf: Hmm.. That's a good idea. Oct 22 05:47:09 We should ask the ninja in the openmoko office about that Oct 22 05:47:26 CM, indeed Oct 22 05:52:29 good morning Oct 22 05:54:03 Hopscotch, good morning Oct 22 06:20:30 Wonderful name: GNU Classpath 0.96 "Staying Alive" released Oct 22 06:21:10 ah ah ah ah.... Oct 22 06:22:40 ScaredyCat: No humour on a Monday morning? :P Oct 22 06:22:51 bah! Oct 22 06:22:56 GNU Classpath 0.96.1 is out :-) Oct 22 06:22:57 I thought it was funny.. Oct 22 06:24:21 * ScaredyCat forces CM to listen to Staying Alive to get ScaredyCat's joke Oct 22 06:24:49 'joke' Oct 22 06:24:57 ScaredyCat: Ah, sorry. Guess I'm the one who's not really awake. Oct 22 06:25:11 I've been up all night ! Oct 22 06:25:20 Probably not as big Beegees fan as you.. ;) Oct 22 06:25:36 true, you're more a Village People fan... Oct 22 06:26:03 * ScaredyCat sniggers Oct 22 06:26:35 * CM puts on the police uniform and brings out the handcuffs Oct 22 06:26:45 Actually, my gf have a pair... Oct 22 06:26:56 furry ones ? Oct 22 06:27:57 I think there used to be some pink furry stuff on them yes.. Oct 22 06:28:20 got any pictures of your gf naked? Oct 22 06:28:30 wanna buy some? Oct 22 06:28:37 ba boom Oct 22 06:28:38 :P Oct 22 06:28:59 that's my standup routine done... Oct 22 06:29:01 ;) Oct 22 06:29:30 Wish I had some though.. :D Oct 22 06:29:36 lol Oct 22 06:29:52 just wait til she's asleep.. :P Oct 22 06:30:12 although, using a flash might not be a good ifdea Oct 22 06:30:16 idea Oct 22 06:38:21 just blindfold her first Oct 22 06:39:44 xzcvczx: Hmm.. Naaa... I really like her eyes :D Oct 22 06:40:16 apt: good morning Oct 22 06:40:23 Good morning, good! Have a cookie... oh no! The cookie jar is dry! Oct 22 06:40:35 Pfff... Oct 22 06:42:28 nano itx are small ... Oct 22 06:43:11 just slightly larger than 2 neos side by side... Oct 22 06:44:47 ScaredyCat: You have one there? Oct 22 06:45:00 there are lots here :D Oct 22 06:45:07 I'd like to build some kind of small server thing.. Like a nslu2 or so Oct 22 06:45:12 we sell them Oct 22 06:45:14 I assume you're at work Oct 22 06:45:17 Yes, I noticed Oct 22 06:45:18 ya Oct 22 06:45:18 ;) Oct 22 06:45:25 :) Oct 22 06:46:29 they have a price premium - I'm not sure it's worth the extra over a mini itx Oct 22 06:47:24 Not if you plan to use a regular 3.5" hd or two Oct 22 06:48:52 well, it's not going to be that small then ;) Oct 22 06:49:26 Small isn't that important, but quiet and power efficient would be nice Oct 22 06:50:54 good psu .. external bricks always help.. Oct 22 06:51:05 fanless board... Oct 22 06:52:28 My current desktop is really quiet even if it has 3 fans Oct 22 06:53:08 But yes, some small via system with an external brick and some disks would be nice Oct 22 06:53:22 mine isn't... the fan in the case under my desk atm is really noisy :/ Oct 22 06:54:10 I have a huge zalman cpu fan, and one underlvolted 120mm fan in the back Oct 22 06:54:13 if you really want to get freaky, check out the 4 mobos in 1 u rack Oct 22 06:54:32 Also, the psu in the antec sonata's are really quiet Oct 22 06:54:47 The water pipes for the radiators are louder Oct 22 06:54:53 lol Oct 22 06:55:50 * CM is off to a meeting Oct 22 06:56:09 * ScaredyCat rummages for new hardware Oct 22 06:57:02 ipkg upgrade working is awesome Oct 22 06:57:09 good work, whoever put time into this Oct 22 07:00:07 damn, but i just hit more dep errors Oct 22 07:00:09 blah Oct 22 07:00:26 Package gtk+-fastscaling wants to install file /usr/share/themes/Emacs/gtk-2.0-key/gtkrc Oct 22 07:00:26 But that file is already provided by package gtk+ Oct 22 07:00:28 etc. Oct 22 07:03:40 -force-install Oct 22 07:04:46 tahnks Oct 22 07:04:48 thanks* Oct 22 07:06:50 i see -force-reinstall? Oct 22 07:08:59 you could try -force-overwrite or -force-reinstall but.. well.. you know... Oct 22 07:09:13 both of those might break stuff Oct 22 07:10:12 but you should be able to do .... Oct 22 07:10:44 ipkg -force-install install Oct 22 07:17:01 ScaredyCat, http://nopaste.com/p/azSxDXDVK Oct 22 07:21:25 did they sort out buildhost? Oct 22 07:21:31 or is that old stuff Oct 22 07:21:50 you could add my buildhost for newer packages.... Oct 22 07:23:52 i'm just using the official images Oct 22 07:23:55 so it might be that issue Oct 22 07:24:48 you could try : Oct 22 07:24:50 cd /etc/ipkg Oct 22 07:24:50 wget http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/scaredycat.conf Oct 22 07:24:50 ipkg update Oct 22 07:25:02 then try... Oct 22 07:25:17 my packages were built yesterday Oct 22 07:39:05 is there anyway you could make your desktop use the gtk widgets/styles from the moko while doing early devel? Oct 22 07:40:02 is it ok to put all .c and .h files in src/, or is it better to put them under src/ui, src/backend etc. (for example)? Oct 22 07:47:17 hmm it looks like my tmobile sim expired Oct 22 07:47:18 lol Oct 22 07:47:36 unless gsmd is just uber b0rked right now Oct 22 07:52:29 hmm maybe it's just gsmd, even my att sim is not working Oct 22 07:52:42 ah, there it goes Oct 22 07:54:14 ScaredyCat, do we still need to screw with the mixer to be able to make voice calls with the headset? Oct 22 08:09:50 Greenphone is down and out.. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6964769377.html Oct 22 08:13:44 CM: Aye. Oct 22 08:13:53 CM: want a cheap Greenphone? Oct 22 08:14:17 Does it work well? Oct 22 08:14:43 it makes calls ;) Oct 22 08:14:49 but does it run openmoko? Oct 22 08:15:31 tbh, I'd have to find it before I could even offer it out Oct 22 08:17:32 i havent heard of anyone getting openmoko running on it Oct 22 08:29:28 ljp: What's the screen size of the greenphone? Oct 22 08:34:33 qvga Oct 22 08:35:14 Same as my neo. ;) Oct 22 08:35:23 stefan_schmidt! Oct 22 08:35:29 stefan_schmidt: did you get it all working then? Oct 22 08:35:45 I thought neo has vga? Oct 22 08:36:16 thos: A bit of automagic and integration is missing, but yes. Oct 22 08:36:31 Maledictus: It is. But the display can also be switched into QVGA mode. Oct 22 08:36:42 ok Oct 22 08:36:47 Maledictus: Just finished kernel support for it Oct 22 08:36:56 stefan_schmidt is our new kernel hacker Oct 22 08:36:59 What would this be useful for? Oct 22 08:37:06 he will then continue to do wifi drivers and smedia *g* Oct 22 08:37:12 * mickey-tw runs Oct 22 08:37:16 thos: The kernel patches are on the openmoko-kernel ml. Oct 22 08:37:21 Maledictus: video playing Oct 22 08:37:22 stefan_schmidt: You mean you just finished watching movie on it :-) Oct 22 08:37:22 * stefan_schmidt gets mickey-tw for sure Oct 22 08:37:25 Maledictus: games Oct 22 08:37:36 mickey-tw: You need to pass me before leaving the office Oct 22 08:37:37 ah, ok Oct 22 08:37:52 * mickey-tw digs a tunnel to the 6th floor Oct 22 08:37:56 alphaone: pssst Oct 22 08:38:36 thos: Harald still need to review and I need to integrate it better. Once this is done you can start playing with qvga theme support Oct 22 08:38:48 great Oct 22 08:38:54 thos: I haven't forgotten you, but it's hard to use atm Oct 22 08:39:39 mickey-tw: I thought you decided we drop wifi? Nobody interested. Oct 22 08:39:46 Now /me runs Oct 22 08:40:04 Just for the record, it's kidding Oct 22 08:40:27 stefan_schmidt: whats the state of suspend/resume.. in regards to the modem in particular? Oct 22 08:41:07 openmoko: 03laforge * r3233 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Oct 22 08:41:07 openmoko: Make sure the display gets enabled again after coming out of the deep-standby Oct 22 08:41:07 openmoko: state (Stefan Schmidt) Oct 22 08:41:09 ljp: mickey-tw faked you, I'm not a kernel guy. Just finished a small task. Oct 22 08:41:33 ah, review starts. Great Oct 22 08:41:35 ljp: no changes yet Oct 22 08:41:52 ljp: but it´s high priority of course Oct 22 08:43:49 ya, well.. I am easily faked and gullible like that :) Oct 22 08:43:53 mickey-tw: thanks Oct 22 08:46:02 openmoko: 03laforge * r3234 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (s3c2410_fb-line_length.patch series): fix dynamic mode/resolution switching with s3c2410_fb (line_length calculation) (Stefan Schmidt) Oct 22 08:48:18 stefan_schmidt, how is qvga switching supposed to be integrated in the gui? aux-button? Oct 22 08:48:49 openmoko: 03thomas * r3235 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-calculator.png): * Remove redundant icon Oct 22 08:49:45 For Rod Whitby .This is a bug report about openmoko makefile on ubuntu 7.02 posted at cellpaste http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m629e55bd, I cant understand why it fails. Oct 22 08:50:01 openmoko: 03laforge * r3236 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Add register init and extend state machine to support QVGA on the LCM. (Stefan Schmidt) Oct 22 08:50:08 jeddy3: ATM we only like to use it for playing videos. There are still rough edges. Not possible to use xrandr for example Oct 22 08:50:30 jeddy3: You have to use fbset and echo something into sysfs Oct 22 08:50:51 stefan_schmidt, nod, ok...mplayer is the most important use i can think of also Oct 22 08:50:54 openmoko: 03laforge * r3237 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Oct 22 08:50:54 openmoko: emove double register settings. Not listed in the data-sheet and it works fine Oct 22 08:50:54 openmoko: without them. Looks like a copy-and-paste error. (Stefan Schmidt) Oct 22 08:50:57 jeddy3: We work on better integration, but our goal is mostly for movie and perhaps games Oct 22 08:51:29 stefan_schmidt, is there anyway you can do this automagically upon launching mplayer in qvga? Oct 22 08:51:48 jeddy3: we want to integrate this functionality into abraxa_ openmoko-mediaplayer Oct 22 08:51:57 jeddy3: You mean from VGA X? Oct 22 08:52:13 openmoko: 03laforge * r3238 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Trivial whitespace before tab cleanup. (Stefan Schmidt) Oct 22 08:52:17 stefan_schmidt, yes Oct 22 08:53:06 stefan_schmidt: can the s3c fb also render in landscape? Oct 22 08:53:10 We think about chvt, fbioctl, sysfs echo and then starting mplayer. Afterwards just the same backwards Oct 22 08:53:33 stefan_schmidt: mplayer can happilly change modes on its own Oct 22 08:53:33 XorA: You mean with kernel driver support? Oct 22 08:53:39 stefan_schmidt, mickey-tw, ah nice Oct 22 08:53:44 XorA: We just use -vf rotate=1 Oct 22 08:53:48 stefan_schmidt, good work anyway! Oct 22 08:54:02 jeddy3: Could be nicer, but best we will get for GTA01 I guess. Oct 22 08:54:08 stefan_schmidt: ouch that loses a lot of performance, if you can rotate the framebuffer in hardware its a lot better Oct 22 08:54:08 jeddy3: thanks Oct 22 08:54:20 openmoko: 03thomas * r3239 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appearance/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Oct 22 08:54:20 openmoko: * Makefile.am: Oct 22 08:54:20 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 22 08:54:20 openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: Oct 22 08:54:20 openmoko: * data/openmoko-appearance.desktop: Oct 22 08:54:22 openmoko: Add .desktop file Oct 22 08:54:34 XorA: For sure, but I doubt s3c can do this Oct 22 08:54:52 XorA: It's not PXA. Sane hardware but less features, you know. :) Oct 22 08:55:04 stefan_schmidt: pxa cant either :-( Oct 22 08:55:11 XorA: oh Oct 22 08:55:25 XorA: Right overlay was the nice thing it has Oct 22 08:55:25 stefan_schmidt: the c7x0 zaurus have w100 chip that does and its sweet Oct 22 08:55:28 * jeddy3 thinks someone should write an example on how to use mencoder to prerotate/scale movies with best options for neo Oct 22 08:55:45 jeddy3: already done by me Oct 22 08:55:50 jeddy3: go right ahead :-) Oct 22 08:56:00 XorA, on wiki? Oct 22 08:56:03 jeddy3: That would be great. I have *no* idea how to use mencoder Oct 22 08:56:03 same options as my zaurus rotate and scale scipts Oct 22 08:56:05 mencoder Oct 22 08:56:13 XorA: link Oct 22 08:56:14 ? Oct 22 08:56:24 stefan_schmidt, me neither :) Oct 22 08:56:28 mencoder "$INFILE" $COMMANDLINE -ovc lavc \ Oct 22 08:56:28 -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=400 \ Oct 22 08:56:28 -lameopts abr:br=160:mode=1 -oac mp3lame \ Oct 22 08:56:28 -vf scale=320:240,rotate=1 \ Oct 22 08:56:28 -ofps 23.976 \ Oct 22 08:56:28 -o "$OUTFILE" Oct 22 08:56:42 alphaone, if i knew how to use mencoder, i would ;) Oct 22 08:56:43 * stefan_schmidt offers XorA a cookie Oct 22 08:57:08 possibly need to change -ofps for neo right down to 15fps Oct 22 08:57:22 with LCD retention you hardly notice slow fps anyway Oct 22 08:58:19 XorA: That should give some nice speedups Oct 22 08:58:39 XorA: Just sad that we can't just throw videos on it and it will just work. Oct 22 08:58:41 stefan_schmidt: I originally started on 200Mhz strongarm so that approx to neo Oct 22 08:58:55 stefan_schmidt: what do you think this is a windows mobile :-D Oct 22 08:59:28 XorA: What is this? Never heard of it. ;) Oct 22 08:59:53 stefan_schmidt: seriously though, 200Mhz OMAP on my HTC Wizard plays pretty much anything thrown at it Oct 22 09:00:12 XorA: No need to preconvert? Oct 22 09:00:18 yes, the OMAPs are good in that regard Oct 22 09:00:23 stefan_schmidt: not for VGA sized stuff Oct 22 09:00:33 XorA: wow, ok Oct 22 09:00:42 OMAP seemed to have packed a lot of punch into a little speed Oct 22 09:00:48 XorA: Time for faster SoCs Oct 22 09:00:50 :) Oct 22 09:01:07 OpenMoko on OMAP :-D Oct 22 09:01:15 who knows... *g* Oct 22 09:02:16 tangray-nick: Are you on 64 bit? If so, look at http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2928 Oct 22 09:02:48 XorA: We just throw Harald on them until they upon up everything. ;) Oct 22 09:03:45 CM: 2928 is fixed Oct 22 09:05:23 No I am not on 64 bit, had already seen that . but its the same binutils-cross_2.18 build that fails Oct 22 09:08:28 CM: by the way I suspect its something to do with my bild libraries on Ubuntu 7.02, even through I did all the updates Oct 22 09:09:43 Without starting a war can anyone suggest a preferred host distribution for developing with Openmoko ??? Oct 22 09:10:25 debian, ubuntu or fedora Oct 22 09:10:39 those are probably the most supported Oct 22 09:11:02 wel my problems are with Ubuntu 7.02 which I thought would be reasonable choice Oct 22 09:11:07 tangray-nick: ubuntu fiesty or above, debian stable or above Oct 22 09:13:09 Sorry - I am running 7.04 feisty Fawn Oct 22 09:13:14 tangray-nick: x86 and amd64 works Oct 22 09:13:40 I am using x86 Oct 22 09:17:22 tangray-nick: and you did not show error log yet Oct 22 09:18:47 hrw: I posted error log at cellpaste http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m629e55bd Oct 22 09:19:05 hrw: should I post it somewhere else ??? Oct 22 09:43:15 hm. it works for me Oct 22 09:43:21 but I do not use mokomakefile Oct 22 09:44:23 hrm: so you do "build from scratch" Oct 22 09:45:33 * Stephmw runs a neodymium magnet over his hard drive... Oct 22 09:46:25 hoping for the best? Oct 22 09:46:46 Stephmw: don't run it too close, or you'll need a non-magnetic crowbar to pry it free ;P Oct 22 09:46:53 yup, hoping I can fuck it up some more Oct 22 09:47:13 it's a dead drive, so I can't wipe it... and I don't have the right screwdrivers to open it Oct 22 09:47:58 heh Oct 22 09:48:07 tangray-nick: odd, sure your metadata is upto date? Oct 22 09:52:58 XorA: how do I update my metadata ? Oct 22 09:53:33 tangray-nick: mtn pull; mtn update Oct 22 09:58:29 XorA: I haven't had any problems building openmoko in quite a while now, so thanks :) Oct 22 09:59:10 XorA: when I do mtn pull I get a no database specified error ? Oct 22 09:59:22 tangray-nick: then its time to read monotone manual Oct 22 09:59:36 tangray-nick: I think make update does a similar thing.. Oct 22 09:59:38 or make update Oct 22 09:59:50 * XorA forgot you were using makefile Oct 22 09:59:59 XorA well its probably my lack of linux experience - Ive set something up wrong somewhere! Oct 22 10:00:31 tangray-nick: well hopefully we can work it out so the next newbie who hits the problem gets a quicker solution Oct 22 10:00:52 Yes I will have to read the manuals and do a build from scratch. Oct 22 10:01:49 Well its fristrating to be a newbie with 25 years embedded experience, but there u r - I dont understand the toolchain yet. Oct 22 10:03:50 XorA: CM: I did go around the make update and clean loop 3 times like Rod suggests in his instructions so I know its not a simple download problem. Oct 22 10:04:07 tangray-nick: ok, we ticked off the first box Oct 22 10:04:23 tangray-nick: did you go through the OE and your distro? Oct 22 10:05:09 tangray-nick: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro maybe you miss something essential Oct 22 10:05:11 yes I installed and checked all the OE suggestions for Ubuntu Oct 22 10:05:48 But I will go down the OE build from scratch route tonight and look at things in detail Oct 22 10:06:16 tangray-nick: hmm. puzzled now then Oct 22 10:06:38 XorA:CM:hrw: thanks for your help I will report back tomorrow after I have checked the build from scratch route Oct 22 10:08:00 tangray-nick: cheers Oct 22 10:10:58 openmoko: 03thomas * r3240 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtkrc): * data/gtkrc: Button style tweaks Oct 22 10:11:13 don't you hate it when you find uncomitted stuff in your local repository Oct 22 10:13:27 heh Oct 22 10:13:55 good morning Oct 22 10:14:06 this is why you do your acceptance tests on a fresh checkout :) Oct 22 10:14:07 morning florian Oct 22 10:14:32 or use something like clearcase(tm), that enforces checking out a file before you can work on it Oct 22 10:14:50 unfortunately clearcase has the side-effect of making you want to pull your own arm off and beat yourself to death with it Oct 22 10:15:03 Voluntary using Clearcase? Oct 22 10:15:06 Wow Oct 22 10:15:10 heh :) Oct 22 10:15:17 clearcase is ok... if you have a good team of clearcase engineers to maintain it :) Oct 22 10:15:28 and lots of Perl-fu Oct 22 10:15:34 yeah, we had 2 dedicated sysadmins whose only jobs was stopping clearcase falling over Oct 22 10:16:39 hmm, is there any cached ipkg-packages or something i can clean in neo, i have no space left now when ipkg upgrading Oct 22 10:17:28 <_diego_> thos, yes but i can only blame myself ^^ Oct 22 10:17:38 _diego_: :-P Oct 22 10:27:02 hello, by "ipkg update && ipkg upgrade" i automatically upgrade to the latest devel image? Oct 22 10:53:57 openmoko: 03chris * r3241 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-worldclock2/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Oct 22 10:53:57 openmoko: * AUTHORS: Oct 22 10:53:57 openmoko: * Makefile.am: Oct 22 10:53:57 openmoko: * autogen.sh: Oct 22 10:53:57 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 22 10:53:59 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Oct 22 10:54:01 openmoko: * src/worldclock-main.c: Oct 22 10:56:57 aah :D Oct 22 10:57:27 vciaglia: yes, however once and then there may be packaging changes that require manual intervention Oct 22 10:59:59 Woot, a clock! Oct 22 11:01:18 ya Oct 22 11:03:53 I guess it's the one posted in his blog Oct 22 11:03:59 Looks really nice Oct 22 11:04:28 mickey-tw: Did you have a look at gstreamer's nice video stills or did you focus on other things instead? Oct 22 11:05:40 CM: Blog? Oct 22 11:05:48 abraxa_: no chance yet, stuck in a meeeeeeeeeeeting Oct 22 11:06:01 hehe Oct 22 11:06:12 mickey-tw: Ohhh, those evil things... hang in there, you'll be free soon ;) Oct 22 11:07:39 abraxa_: Na.. Looks like a simple clock in that commit Oct 22 11:07:50 abraxa_: The one I was thinking of is http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/Dates/libjana-knows-when-you-sleep.enlighten Oct 22 11:09:05 mickey-tw, how was the weekend in tw? :) Oct 22 11:09:10 CM: Looks nice indeed and could be quite the looker with some nice interface Oct 22 11:09:52 abraxa_: Exactly, and as the comments say, would be a nice way to select timezone Oct 22 11:15:51 Nice topic. :) Oct 22 11:20:31 pvanhoof: not bad. nice weather. Oct 22 11:20:59 abraxa_: can you give me a RDEPENDS line (including video dependencies) for the latest mediaplayer and i´ll test video :) Oct 22 11:21:26 mickey-tw, aha, so you're having a good time? :) Oct 22 11:21:35 Lucky for you Oct 22 11:21:39 mickey-tw: gst-plugin-mpeg2dec, mpeg2dec, gst-plugin-mpegstream, gst-plugin-videorate and gst-plugin-videoscale are the essentials if I remember correctly Oct 22 11:21:49 pvanhoof: We try to make it harder for him. ;) Oct 22 11:21:50 Have to run off to university again, so bbl Oct 22 11:22:00 stefan_schmidt, very good :) Oct 22 11:22:34 cu abraxa_ Oct 22 11:22:42 the unpleasant things have just begun... Oct 22 11:22:44 (meetings) Oct 22 11:22:58 * stefan_schmidt thinks whenever he has an own office, he needs one of these basketball game machines FIC have. Oct 22 11:23:18 * CM prefers pinball machines Oct 22 11:23:36 hello, is anybody here working on the qemu-emulation of neo-1973 ? Oct 22 11:23:52 stefan_schmidt: an arcade center would be... Oct 22 11:24:23 develnewbee|away: I'm not, but I've been unable to get qemu to run lately Oct 22 11:24:38 zecke: That's not a VC company. ;) Oct 22 11:24:47 zecke: They have nearly everything else. :) Oct 22 11:24:59 develnewbee|away: There has been a qemu target for a long time and it used to work ok, just a bit slow Oct 22 11:25:18 is there any way I can simplify this statement or is it ok to use strcpy? "if (strchr (rbuf, ' ')) { strcpy (rbuf, strchr (rbuf, ' ')); }" Oct 22 11:25:20 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230183176982 Oct 22 11:25:35 anyone wanna buy me a pressie :) Oct 22 11:26:07 CM: well yeah thats true. When i put in my USB bt dongle the system becomes very slow. Oct 22 11:26:28 abraxa_, how does gstreamer video perform? Oct 22 11:26:43 develnewbee|away: Oh, never thought about that since I've always had my bt plug in Oct 22 11:27:00 jeddy3: Horrendous. gstreamer just isn't made with embedded platforms in mind Oct 22 11:27:07 * abraxa_ runs Oct 22 11:27:12 Hehe Oct 22 11:29:30 hmm Oct 22 11:29:31 well Oct 22 11:29:46 it's not really gstreamer`s fault Oct 22 11:29:51 gstreamer is the platform, the framework Oct 22 11:30:02 most plugins are the problem Oct 22 11:30:11 and the input/output formats they expect/put out Oct 22 11:30:12 abraxa_, nod, i had a feeling that would be the case :| Oct 22 11:30:39 And mpeg2-dec is in ugly or? :) Oct 22 11:33:26 * XorA expects gst-plugin-ffmpeg would perform better on arm due to the sweet optimisations that went in recently Oct 22 11:34:36 probably Oct 22 11:34:44 however i couldn´t get this to work at all Oct 22 11:34:45 heh Oct 22 11:35:32 hmm, pity, lot of arm work went into libavcodec and some more due from the maemo guys if it didnt arrive yet Oct 22 11:36:14 might save us space as well, as ffmpeg mp3 is supposed to be as good as mad on arm now Oct 22 11:37:41 well, perhaps it was just me Oct 22 11:37:45 need to give it a second try Oct 22 11:44:08 is the ANYTHING on the rootfs i can clean?, i'm out of space :| Oct 22 11:44:29 Hello Oct 22 11:44:36 ls -l /usr/bin|sort -nk5 Oct 22 11:45:04 jeddy3: remove webkit, it is huge Oct 22 11:45:08 SpeedEvil, nice :) Oct 22 11:46:36 SpeedEvil: ls -lrS /usr/bin Oct 22 11:46:56 mickey-tw, i still wan't all the packages in default distribution...but scummvw was quite large Oct 22 11:47:07 hehe Oct 22 11:52:21 mickey-tw, I'm planning to make webkit the default HTML component for message-viewers, how large is webkit on the device? Oct 22 11:52:56 And are there plans to replace it with another html component? If so, which one (certain specific things are needed, and for example Gecko currently doesn't cope with those needs) Oct 22 11:53:08 webkit wil be it Oct 22 11:53:14 ok Oct 22 11:53:16 7mb now, but will probably be 5 eventually Oct 22 11:53:20 Okay Oct 22 11:53:31 and we already ship it for feedreader and web browser Oct 22 11:53:34 alp and me have some neat ideas to cope with the requirements that we'll need Oct 22 11:53:38 cool Oct 22 11:54:01 Specifically inline attached images of HTML emails, making sure it doesn't download something unless specifically asked to, etc etc) Oct 22 11:55:13 pvanhoof: i found some precedent for this kind of API in the objc webkit interfaces. this is pretty good news, and suggests that they're doing similar stuff in their own applications as you wanted Oct 22 11:55:45 and following this weekend's hacking, the browser is starting to get pretty hot, i would check it out ;-) Oct 22 11:55:47 nice Oct 22 11:56:14 I'll cool it down before holding it in my hands then Oct 22 11:57:04 alp, is the GObject-based api ready ? Oct 22 11:57:07 if you know anyone with curl/http experience, the most critical issue by far right now is to fix the http backend of the port Oct 22 11:57:31 I would love to inherit my TnyGtkWebkitMimePartView from a GtkWebkit type Oct 22 11:57:38 if noone else does it, i will have to, but my time is much better spent working on rendering Oct 22 11:57:43 ok Oct 22 11:57:55 curl/http.. hmm Oct 22 11:58:36 the public api needs attention too, the quality has fallen behind the rest of the port Oct 22 11:58:54 Is webkit zoomable btw? Oct 22 11:58:58 That would be a requirement for modest Oct 22 11:59:27 that's something we were working on but gw280 has returned to university and doesn't have much time to work on it atm Oct 22 11:59:34 gw280 was meant to be doing zooming, dunno what the status is Oct 22 11:59:39 ok Oct 22 11:59:52 working but incorrectly architected atm, I think was the result Oct 22 11:59:57 hopefully we can pick it back up soon Oct 22 11:59:59 So, modest will probably ship with gtkhtml, but I know Igalia has prepared a Gecko based one too Oct 22 12:00:11 the problem with gecko is of course the inline images Oct 22 12:00:29 pvanhoof: webkit bug #14998 Oct 22 12:00:42 I'll bookmark it Oct 22 12:00:55 gstreamer: don't know how to handle video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)1 Oct 22 12:01:05 which decoder / demuxer do i need here? Oct 22 12:01:18 gw280: why are you changing the wx port in that patch? Oct 22 12:01:37 I am? Oct 22 12:01:54 gw280: commented out code will also lead to a rejection Oct 22 12:02:26 hm, fuck knows Oct 22 12:02:52 right Oct 22 12:03:19 gw280: watch the whitespace/formatting on cairo_matrix_transform_distance() Oct 22 12:04:01 nrargh Oct 22 12:05:13 gw280: the clip() changes look like they will break non-trivial rendering Oct 22 12:05:28 in what way? Oct 22 12:05:29 have you done a visual inspection against the test suite? Oct 22 12:05:35 no Oct 22 12:05:37 sorry, let's take this to #webkit-gtk Oct 22 12:52:19 whats the deal with neo1973 and fic-gta01 image directories on buildhost? which one is preffered? Oct 22 12:52:37 * arw1 hello people Oct 22 12:52:49 Hi all Oct 22 12:55:33 am looking to replace the earbuds with something of higher quaility. any suggestions? Oct 22 12:56:16 does any one have trouble going to uboot shell using cu or minicom ? Oct 22 12:56:42 what is your trouble then? Oct 22 12:59:10 well i have 2 kinds of pb: Oct 22 13:00:44 first it is really rare that i get the prompt, i will say i only got it 2 times after playing withe the debug board in serial mode. (and this only under windows because /dev/ttyUSB0 nevers shows up under linux) Oct 22 13:01:54 hey, all a question regarding the libgsmd library, is a passthrough message handler mandatory in applications using libgsmd?, Oct 22 13:02:41 then i managed to have it work with minicom (11520 8N1 on /dev/ttyACM0) for a few times, then again no more prompt (in order i boot into uboot, set console to USB, plus the usb cable) Oct 22 13:05:37 similar problem here, I have to type blind and then again set console to usb which make magically appear and execute what I typed before. Works always. Oct 22 13:06:23 am using cu, serial console and /dev/ttyACM0 Oct 22 13:07:41 the new click sound is to loud... Oct 22 13:08:45 i still have a stock u-boot (U-Boot 1.2.0-moko9_r8_70124c2602ae2d4c5d3dba05b482d91548242de8_0_2040). i could update to the one i built (u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn2943-r1.bin) but it seems to still be version 1.2.0 so i'm not sure it will help Oct 22 13:09:16 gamin: so you first type blind, then set console tu USB then it works ? Oct 22 13:09:16 I still have a stock boot too. Oct 22 13:10:04 yes. and I start with serial. no sure if that is correct, but ttyACM0 should be serial Oct 22 13:10:43 hi....anyone built a xephyr based rootfs image using mokomakefile? or more specifically how do i disable building u-boot, kernel during the process? Oct 22 13:12:02 btw, got five hours of mp3 playing on battery Oct 22 13:13:34 with backlight off. more should be possible - madplay uses only 20% cpu Oct 22 13:15:00 well i tried : power off + unplug + boot into U-boot + set to serial + plug + chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttyACM0 + cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 + blind 'printenv' + ser console to USB + blind printenv -> nothing... Oct 22 13:15:42 jeddy3: neo1973 is the new one Oct 22 13:15:53 jeddy3: Since both gta01 and 02 are still neos :) Oct 22 13:16:04 fugazy: hmm, that works here Oct 22 13:16:51 fugazy: actually i don't do your printenv, but just the nand erase rootfs Oct 22 13:17:30 gamin: do you have any feedback (prompt) or it just work ? Oct 22 13:18:06 fugazy: usually i get the prompt "GTA01Bv4 #" Oct 22 13:20:08 luckily i have a debug board but it is a pain to disassemble the neo each time i have to flash a new rootfs Oct 22 13:20:57 mickey|away: Did you install mpeg2dec and gst-plugin-mpeg2dec? Oct 22 13:21:59 jeddy3: neo1973 is the newer (generic) image - it didn't make sense to separate between fic-gta01 and fic-gta02 so it was merged as neo1973 Oct 22 13:22:45 abraxa_: I was positing earlier that you might have better performace with gst-plugin-ffmpeg for video Oct 22 13:23:06 abraxa_: arm optimisations have gone into ffmpeg recently and more are going in Oct 22 13:23:15 XorA: I did try with ffmpeg but I just couldn't get it to process the video/mpeg type Oct 22 13:23:28 So I gave up and just went with mpeg2dec Oct 22 13:23:46 abraxa_: fair enough, every time I look at gstreamer the huge nasty messiness scares me Oct 22 13:24:28 Yeah, especially since you don't get told what plugin *would* provide handling of the un-handled type Oct 22 13:25:00 is there a place under /proc or /sys where the battery state is available? Oct 22 13:25:08 Yes :) Oct 22 13:25:10 I think its gstreamer that keeps mplayer in business Oct 22 13:25:21 find /sys -name "*volt" Oct 22 13:25:51 XorA: I just wish mplayer weren't one big monolithic block Oct 22 13:26:22 abraxa_: so do lots of people, but no-one dares to break it :-) Oct 22 13:26:30 For obvious reasons ;) Oct 22 13:36:03 SpeedEvil: actually I'm looking for the current. my old ipaq with a 2.4 kernel has /proc/asic/battery which tells "Active Current", "Accumulated Current" etc. Oct 22 13:36:15 the same directory Oct 22 13:36:28 *curr* Oct 22 13:36:30 batcurr? Oct 22 13:36:38 It only works for discharge current Oct 22 13:36:44 when off charger Oct 22 13:36:58 reportedly there are newer kernels which also give charge current Oct 22 13:37:32 And it's not in milliamps Oct 22 13:37:35 SpeedEvil: find /sys -name '*curr*' results in "/sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/current_clocksource" Oct 22 13:37:42 no Oct 22 13:38:29 chgcur Oct 22 13:42:36 cm, abraxa_, ok...two more things then? what is the difference between devel and ordinary image, and difference between uImage-fic-gta01 and uImage-neo1973? Oct 22 13:44:12 SpeedEvil: so I have 533 when backlight on, 266 when backlight dimmed and 240 when backlight off Oct 22 13:44:28 SpeedEvil: I guess it is mA ? Oct 22 13:44:49 No. Oct 22 13:45:05 Also - read it a few times in sequence. It's _horribly_ noisy Oct 22 13:46:09 hmm that would mean the display backlight draws 50% of the power... Oct 22 13:46:10 i guess the backlight power is PWM Oct 22 13:46:22 cjb_ie: yes - but that's not the reason. Oct 22 13:47:05 ewww, veeery noisy: with backlight between 260 and 560... Oct 22 13:47:26 It works OK if you average a few dozen points Oct 22 13:48:18 SpeedEvil: but it is not mA? just some relative unit? Oct 22 13:48:23 Yes. Oct 22 13:48:40 I'm sorry, I can't find my notes as to what the unit is. Oct 22 13:50:16 I think it was about 2*current in mA Oct 22 13:51:16 jeddy3: I only have devel builds Oct 22 13:54:58 cm ok Oct 22 14:03:40 there used to be a release date estimate on a wiki before the batch 1 release pasted here all the time. Are there any similar page with up to date news about development? Oct 22 14:04:00 Latest estimate is december. Oct 22 14:05:26 That isn't what I wanted to know. I want something like dot.kde.org for openmoko development. Oct 22 14:07:19 is the December release date official ? Oct 22 14:07:30 CVirus: No, not yet Oct 22 14:07:41 CM: who came up with it then ? Oct 22 14:07:44 But after this week we'll probabl get to know more Oct 22 14:08:07 CVirus: mickeyl, but that's still just an estimate and nothing official Oct 22 14:08:21 CM: mickey works for FIC ? Oct 22 14:08:47 CVirus: Yes, for sure :D Oct 22 14:09:02 CVirus: Or Rather I'd say he works for OpenMoko Oct 22 14:09:12 CM: so why there's no official release date yet ? Oct 22 14:09:21 Hi. I´m trying to configure the sound on openmoko. Last but running: "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore" gives me: "alsactl: load_state:1327: No soundcards found...". Looking for the message on Internet I see some info related with kernel support, but none is related with Neo1973. Do you have any pointer to the solution? Oct 22 14:09:51 offray_: latest builds work out of the box Oct 22 14:09:54 CVirus: Because no one knows when the hw is ready Oct 22 14:10:17 CM: the hardware is ready on what means ? Oct 22 14:10:23 CM: you mean from the vendor side ? Oct 22 14:10:40 offray_: Look if the file is right in /etc/gsmhandset.state and not alsa Oct 22 14:11:04 CVirus: What do you mean vendor? I mean the factory that will produce the units Oct 22 14:11:46 gamin: may be my model is just a lot older. How can I know what is the actual version of the build? Oct 22 14:11:52 CM: the factory will produce every component of the unit ? I mean aren't there hardware vendors that supply FIC with the LCD's, wifi chipsets, ...etc ? Oct 22 14:11:55 There only exists about 10 GTA02 so far, mostly prototypes used by kernel devs Oct 22 14:12:23 CM: where is this factory ? Oct 22 14:12:36 CVirus: Mainland china Oct 22 14:12:49 offray_: depends on what you have flashed - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Oct 22 14:12:50 CM: is there anyway I could buy it directly from the factory when it's released ? Oct 22 14:12:53 CVirus: A FIC factory, and I guess they don't have all the GTA02 parts there yet Oct 22 14:13:06 CM: is the software ready ? Oct 22 14:13:16 CVirus: No, don't think you can buy directly Oct 22 14:13:26 And no, the software isn't Oct 22 14:13:48 CM: how can the community help getting the software ready ? Oct 22 14:13:53 It will run the same software as GTA01, but with some kernel and uboot updates as far as I know Oct 22 14:14:28 CVirus: By sending in patches and making good bug reports, filling in the wiki or anything. There's a lot to do. :) Oct 22 14:15:01 CM: so which part of the official software that will be shipped with the device needs help ? Oct 22 14:15:38 CVirus, all parts :) Oct 22 14:15:54 CVirus: Well, think things are improving quite fast now, but as jeddy3 said, all parts.. Oct 22 14:16:23 gamin: I don't have the debug board. Is fine to flash the unit in that case? Oct 22 14:16:32 indeed, things are getting better, but everything can always improve :) Oct 22 14:16:34 http://projects.openmoko.org/ ... all of this will be shipped with the device ? Oct 22 14:16:55 CVirus: I'd be happy if the gsmd got a bit more stable and the dbus interface to it was done, and if the lawyers were done with their nda's so that mickeyl can release the chroot with oabi gllin driver for the GPS Oct 22 14:17:30 hmm .. I know python Oct 22 14:17:32 :-) Oct 22 14:17:34 CVirus: I doubt all, but maybe some Oct 22 14:17:52 hmm Oct 22 14:18:03 I really want to help Oct 22 14:18:12 I guess I'll spare sometime writing python code Oct 22 14:18:44 CVirus, projects.openmoko.org are just a collection of user projects concerning openmoko, not all is going to be included, maybe some will Oct 22 14:18:51 Just start looking around if you see something you find interesting Oct 22 14:19:02 Or take a look at the wishlist in the wiki Oct 22 14:19:08 CM: I really want to help with the stuff that will be shipped officially Oct 22 14:19:29 Hmm.. Maybe look through bugzilla then and send in patches Oct 22 14:19:57 if there's python related stuff over there ... I'd be more than happy to help Oct 22 14:20:31 there are other areas but coding that could use help also, documenting, graphics, bug reporting, anything will be appreciated Oct 22 14:20:49 jeddy3: I don't have a GTA01 :-( Oct 22 14:20:52 can't report bugs Oct 22 14:21:02 maybe I'll run OpenMoko under vmware or sumthing Oct 22 14:21:06 sure you can - use the emulator. Oct 22 14:21:07 You can run qemu Oct 22 14:21:09 but is this reliable for bug reports ? Oct 22 14:21:14 CVirus, just a suggestion mate :) Oct 22 14:21:24 jeddy3: cheers :-) Oct 22 14:21:27 CVirus, I am compiling it with the emulator right now Oct 22 14:21:33 cool Oct 22 14:22:01 will the GTA02 be available in stores ? Oct 22 14:22:06 or I can only order it online ? Oct 22 14:22:27 CVirus: online Oct 22 14:22:50 sladen: how will the shipping be handled ? Oct 22 14:22:58 how to run the sudoku.py ? from the omsudoku project? Oct 22 14:23:02 damn .. I'm asking too much questions Oct 22 14:23:11 :D Oct 22 14:23:12 mbuf: python sudoku.py Oct 22 14:23:21 jeddy3: I really can't wait any longer Oct 22 14:23:22 CVirus: not working for FIC, I would presume identically to at the moment Oct 22 14:23:24 CVirus: THe GTA01 was ups Oct 22 14:23:28 jeddy3: I lost my nokia mobile phone recently Oct 22 14:23:30 CVirus, it says working... and then what should be displayed? Oct 22 14:23:48 mbuf: no idea ... maybe it's not complete yet Oct 22 14:24:24 CVirus, ok Oct 22 14:24:41 I lost my connection with openmoko. Now trying to ssh or ping to it doesn't work. Need I to restart the machine? Oct 22 14:25:01 offray_, are you using powersave features? Oct 22 14:25:39 offray_, because those disable networking when sleeping Oct 22 14:27:10 I have read that the battery performance is really bad right now. how long is the battery expected to last in the consumer version under "normal" usage? Oct 22 14:29:27 faern, yes it's bad right now :) ...I don't know if we have a really accurate suggestion to how long it would last, but it WILL be a lot better, right now the powersaving is kind of crude Oct 22 14:30:10 ok good. that's a really important topic I think Oct 22 14:30:32 faern, it sure is Oct 22 14:32:46 so mickey is a core developer for sure ? Oct 22 14:32:56 faern, things are improving though, first weeks with moko, it would last a couple of hours tops if i removed it from computer...now it can survive some playing on the way home PLUS a whole night without power :D Oct 22 14:33:26 CVirus: He, Harald Welte and Sean are probably the first ones on the project Oct 22 14:33:33 oh yay overnight! Oct 22 14:33:37 now it matches my ancient 7610 Oct 22 14:34:01 CM: if only FIC would hire more people so that I get my Neo1973 quickly :-p Oct 22 14:34:09 wooho jeddy3. great improvement. that many percent longer and it will last a week :P Oct 22 14:34:44 CVirus: Hehe.. I think they have hired quite a few guys these last few weeks, so the pace is going up :) Oct 22 14:35:00 CM: hopefully Oct 22 14:35:04 CM: thanks for all the info really Oct 22 14:35:38 CVirus: NP, it's nice that there's so many who are interested in the project Oct 22 14:35:52 speaking about dev speed. I have heard many different dates. any idea on when the next release will be? Oct 22 14:36:05 faern: /topic Oct 22 14:36:07 faern: You mean official rootfs release? Oct 22 14:36:15 Or GTA02 hardware? Oct 22 14:36:52 CM, this time I meant the consumer version of phone :P Oct 22 14:37:26 I'm guessing that's 6 months away or so, if the software gets good enough in that time Oct 22 14:37:58 consumer version ? 6 months ? Oct 22 14:38:13 * CM is a huge optimist :D Oct 22 14:38:14 isn't the GTA02 the consumer version ? Oct 22 14:38:46 CVirus: Yes, hardware wise. But the software will not be ready by then for public release to everyone Oct 22 14:38:47 GTA02 is the consumer hardware indeed. Oct 22 14:38:54 yeah, what CM said Oct 22 14:39:01 CM: I understand Oct 22 14:39:46 CM: open source software has never been ready as a product ... open source is about research and development Oct 22 14:40:13 CVirus: Well.. It can surely be protuctized Oct 22 14:40:44 products kill the software I guess Oct 22 14:40:50 I dunno Oct 22 14:41:03 errr ... I want my Neo1973 Oct 22 14:41:04 :-p Oct 22 14:41:24 * CM pats his Neo (over ssh of course :-P) Oct 22 14:42:04 grrr Oct 22 14:42:22 anyways ... why there are 2 accelerometers in the device ? Oct 22 14:42:44 CVirus: did you order one when GTA01 was announced? Oct 22 14:42:53 rwhitby: nope Oct 22 14:43:04 rwhitby: I want wifi :-( Oct 22 14:43:21 guess you're gonna need to be patient then ... Oct 22 14:43:34 rwhitby: I'm patient already ... I was just kidding Oct 22 14:43:51 CVirus: I guess so you have two directions to sense acceleration in Oct 22 14:43:53 rwhitby: I've been waiting for 6 months :-) Oct 22 14:43:55 mee 2. going to start developing already thou Oct 22 14:44:07 faern: what are you going to do ? Oct 22 14:44:10 CVirus: and yet you haven't run the emulator yet? Oct 22 14:44:36 rwhitby: I didn't have time to contribute Oct 22 14:44:46 CVirus, dunno exactly. will look through the wishlists Oct 22 14:45:08 faern: what languages do you know ? Oct 22 14:45:12 * CM translates CVirus to "I'm not prioritizing it high enough yet" ;) Oct 22 14:45:27 CVirus, c/c++, java & python Oct 22 14:45:42 faern: if you're gonna do any python stuff please tell me :-) Oct 22 14:45:54 CVirus, sure will Oct 22 14:45:58 LOL @ cm Oct 22 14:46:37 will there be a java jre on it? :P Oct 22 14:46:40 faern: no seriously ... I didn't have time and I'm good at nuthing but little python knowledge Oct 22 14:47:00 heh Oct 22 14:47:07 dealing with an unname console devkit here Oct 22 14:47:25 if I update from firmware level (n-1) to firmware n, it's fine Oct 22 14:47:26 CVirus, why tell me? I didn't question your dedication :P Oct 22 14:47:32 if I update from (n-2) to n, it bricks Oct 22 14:47:45 hi Oct 22 14:47:50 hi Oct 22 14:47:52 err .. I mean CM Oct 22 14:47:55 faern: sorry Oct 22 14:47:59 np :P Oct 22 14:48:31 is the GTA02v4 even out ? Oct 22 14:48:36 to the devs I mean Oct 22 14:50:09 the make openmoko-devel-image command takes ages. how can a phone os be so big? :O Oct 22 14:53:16 faern, heh, remember that it's not only compiling every single tool, but also everything needed for compiling Oct 22 14:54:30 yeah thats true. downloading glibc and all.. guess I cant start test it untill tomorrow :/ Oct 22 14:54:55 CVirus: I wasn't questioning your dedication, merely admitting my own reason for not contributing more :) Oct 22 14:55:08 faern, you just started? :D, forget about playing with it today =) Oct 22 14:55:27 CM: cheers :-D Oct 22 14:55:45 jeddy3, started half an hour ago. on a P4@3GHz :P Oct 22 14:55:48 faern: About java, yes, people are working on it Oct 22 14:56:07 heading home now, later Oct 22 14:56:11 CM, nice Oct 22 14:57:24 faern: On that comp you have another 10h to go or so for a full build with the makefile.. Oct 22 14:59:12 cm and now it crashed saying something about qemu-native_20070613.bb' failed Oct 22 14:59:51 Oh, that's very old. Have you updated everything? Oct 22 15:00:12 * CM has to hurry home from work now Oct 22 15:02:50 CM, I just ran make setup Oct 22 15:11:11 ~praise abraxa_ for video support Oct 22 15:11:12 All hail abraxa_ for video support! Oct 22 15:11:31 He's made QVGA mode work? Oct 22 15:12:17 no, he added preliminary video support to openmoko-mediaplayer2 (proof-of-concept) Oct 22 15:12:21 Ah Oct 22 15:18:57 shouldn't I compile the image to emulate with gcc 3? When running make update with it I get an error about gcc 3 :( Oct 22 15:34:35 hi there Oct 22 15:34:50 any news so far? Oct 22 15:35:00 gsmd news Oct 22 15:35:09 or power management Oct 22 15:35:43 Not really. Oct 22 15:35:57 Latest images seem to be - when they work - working. Oct 22 15:39:08 hehe mickey Oct 22 15:40:06 I wanna get ffmpeg to work before trying out mplayer but... wow, the ffmpeg plugin is such a mess Oct 22 15:40:49 faern: Do you have gcc installed? Oct 22 15:41:26 CM, yes. 4 & 3 Oct 22 15:41:32 What distro? Oct 22 15:41:34 gentoo Oct 22 15:41:43 Ah, then you hit the same problem as I did Oct 22 15:42:35 faern: ln -l /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 Oct 22 15:43:13 faern: Gentoo only makes a gcc-3.4.6 softlink in /usr/bin, and qemu looks for gcc-3 and gcc-3.4 Oct 22 15:43:38 aa. that can be it Oct 22 15:56:53 "CDC Ethernet"? Did somebody pick up an Ethernet prefix for cheap? Oct 22 15:57:34 "Communications Device Class" Oct 22 15:57:36 go figure Oct 22 15:59:35 So, my branny-new Neo1973 won't boot. Oct 22 15:59:44 Gives me a kernel panic. Oct 22 15:59:53 how can I deactivate the click sound? Oct 22 15:59:54 Presumably I must reflash. Fine enough. Oct 22 16:00:25 nelson: it comes with no rootfs Oct 22 16:00:27 dfu --list doesn't list my phone even though I can see it in the lsusb output. Oct 22 16:00:29 nelson: so panics Oct 22 16:00:42 SpeedEvil: that would do it! Oct 22 16:00:50 nelson: when did you order? Oct 22 16:01:58 SpeedEvil: about a week ago Oct 22 16:02:26 Nice. Oct 22 16:03:29 w00t. needs to be put into DFU mode; doesn't default to it. Oct 22 16:03:44 :) Oct 22 16:07:44 Yes, Sunday the 14th. Went out Tuesday. Selected ground delivery, which took the majority of the time. Oct 22 16:14:18 openmoko: 03chris * r3242 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Oct 22 16:14:18 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 22 16:14:18 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Oct 22 16:14:18 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (bg_expose_cb), (bg_size_allocate_cb), Oct 22 16:14:20 openmoko: (today_create_home_page), (wallpaper_notify), (main): Oct 22 16:14:22 openmoko: * src/today.h: Oct 22 16:14:24 openmoko: Add wallpaper support Oct 22 16:14:33 cooool Oct 22 16:15:02 * Sup3rkiddo updates his build tree for the supposed wallpaper support Oct 22 16:15:37 please make a scap Oct 22 16:19:50 whats a "scap"? Oct 22 16:20:01 hold aux button Oct 22 16:20:05 choose "screenshot" Oct 22 16:20:11 choose "upload to scap.linuxtogo.org" Oct 22 16:20:47 And make sure you use a photo of your GF as wallpaper Oct 22 16:20:53 mickey-tw, ah, ok :P, but i dont think i would be the first one to scap, the neo is in the university, will be going there on wednesday, maybe then :P Oct 22 16:21:20 stefan_schmidt, bah, am still single, =( Oct 22 16:21:42 well, you're still young, right? :D Oct 22 16:21:42 Sup3rkiddo: life's simpler that way, trust me Oct 22 16:21:54 mickey-tw, yeah 18, Oct 22 16:22:07 cjb_ie, :P, i couldnt have said it better.. Oct 22 16:22:26 Time to impress the girls with your neo. ;) Oct 22 16:22:56 hehe, Oct 22 16:23:01 stefan_schmidt: hehe Oct 22 16:25:15 mickey-tw, hey, having a small doubt in libgsmd, message handlers gets called if and only if some event is completely successful? Oct 22 16:27:19 * stefan_schmidt bags with having a GF since 17. ;) Oct 22 16:27:37 gah! Oct 22 16:28:04 i still have my computer =D Oct 22 16:28:09 Sup3rkiddo: Keep cool. There are enough for anyone Oct 22 16:28:30 righto, great one Oct 22 16:28:32 brags of course Oct 22 16:30:10 CM, I get the exact same error now :/ Oct 22 16:30:24 qemu-native_20070613.bb failed Oct 22 16:30:35 hi pH5 Oct 22 16:30:47 Just seen the TyTN II here in .tw Oct 22 16:30:49 Hmmm.... boot is a little slow. Oct 22 16:31:01 pH5: Looks great, but it is really expensive Oct 22 16:32:05 faern: Have you done a make update? Oct 22 16:32:27 Sup3rkiddo: dunno, that would be a question for gsmd-devel Oct 22 16:32:51 CM, no I removed all the files and did a new make setup && make-devel-image Oct 22 16:33:03 mickey-tw, hmm, ok thanks, thought you would know since you wrote libmokogsmd? Oct 22 16:33:06 Ah, but do a make update too Oct 22 16:33:22 You must be running something really old Oct 22 16:33:37 I just compiled and ran qemu, it's booting here at the moment Oct 22 16:33:46 CM, I followed this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU Oct 22 16:34:21 faern: Hmm.. Should mention there that you should update the environment too Oct 22 16:34:30 CM, what distro, my flash.sh is borked Oct 22 16:34:34 faern: run the line lower down there; make update-makefile && make setup update openmoko-devel-image Oct 22 16:34:37 Sup3rkiddo: ya, but i didn't look that much into libgsmd Oct 22 16:34:39 Sup3rkiddo: Gentoo Oct 22 16:34:47 Sup3rkiddo: I needed to add dosfsutils Oct 22 16:35:00 CM, will try. thank you for the help Oct 22 16:35:10 Don't know why, but before they weren't needed. But the make qemu wanted mkdosfs Oct 22 16:35:12 CM, hmm same here, did that, the script hangs and timeouts.. Oct 22 16:35:36 * Sup3rkiddo gets back to looking for the solution Oct 22 16:35:37 faern: No problem, hope you'll get it running soon too :) Oct 22 16:36:12 Sup3rkiddo: Weird.. I just did a "make qemu" and it flashed ok Oct 22 16:36:44 Sup3rkiddo: Heh, but running it is going sloooooooowww.. Stick sucking 99% cpu after 4 minutes trying to boot Oct 22 16:36:54 s/Stick/Still/ Oct 22 16:36:55 CM meant: Sup3rkiddo: Heh, but running it is going sloooooooowww.. Still sucking 99% cpu after 4 minutes trying to boot Oct 22 16:36:58 CM, hmm, i guess theres a bug report on that, Oct 22 16:37:10 ..on the script that is, Oct 22 16:39:10 hej stefan_schmidt. I'm curious, how well does the sliding/tilting display work? Oct 22 16:39:29 CM, no.. same error :/ should I run a make clean first? Oct 22 16:39:58 I don't have to have gcc-3.4.6 activated in gcc-config, right? Oct 22 16:40:10 pH5: Unfortunately I never touched it. Perhaps I can do it within the next week. We will see. Oct 22 16:42:55 faern: No, shouldn't be needed to activate it ( I have 4.2.2) Oct 22 16:44:03 isn't Xorg a better alternative to X11? Oct 22 16:44:16 as the wiki said I downloaded http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile is that the newest one? or is that where the error is? Oct 22 16:44:52 krLun, Xorg is an implementation of the protocol X11 Oct 22 16:45:06 oh Oct 22 16:45:25 will i be able to connect a remote x.org desktop from my moko? Oct 22 16:45:35 ie export my display to the moko Oct 22 16:45:38 faern: No, it's not there. I can't understand why it's trying to build something called qemu-native_20070613.bb Oct 22 16:46:34 faern: For me it builds qemu-native_0.9.0+cvs.bb Oct 22 16:47:31 I'm in qemu-native-0.9.0+cvs20070613-r5 when it happens so I have 0.9.0 too Oct 22 16:49:29 * CM runs a make clobber-qemu;make qemu Oct 22 16:49:42 unable to find a register to spill in class `GENERAL_REGS' is the error gcc gives me Oct 22 16:50:57 faern: Hmm.. Sorry, can't figure out what it is. Just compiled it again with no problems at all Oct 22 16:51:22 :/ Oct 22 16:51:47 There are people here who know more than me though, just hope some of them come around when you're here :) Oct 22 16:51:56 is it openmoko-devel-image i should make? Oct 22 16:52:01 stefan_schmidt: 'we will see'? don't they let you out regularly? :) Oct 22 16:52:03 yes Oct 22 16:52:26 no way Oct 22 16:52:34 stefan_schmidt is locked into the MokoApartment Oct 22 16:55:19 hey, nobody told me this. But no everything makes sense... Oct 22 16:55:57 * Philippe sends stefan_schmidt a lockpiock kit Oct 22 16:56:40 Philippe: There is a emergency pack to go down from the balcony. But I'm not I like to try it out in the 10th floor Oct 22 16:57:11 stefan_schmidt: Damn... I guess you will need some Cola and beer then to be out in time for Fosdem :-) Oct 22 16:57:36 Hmm.. qemu gives me a lot of s3c_mmci_write: Bad register 0x38 and it never gets past booting X Oct 22 16:57:46 night all Oct 22 16:57:52 openmoko: 03chris * r3243 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Oct 22 16:57:52 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_create_home_page): Oct 22 16:57:52 openmoko: No need to connect_after on event box signals Oct 22 16:58:36 Philippe: :) Oct 22 16:59:35 * Philippe checks progress on openmoko-browser2.. Oct 22 16:59:44 time to do something about it. Oct 22 17:00:37 Philippe: Something like a fullscreen mode? :) Oct 22 17:00:59 * CM calculated the current version to be a 56% of the screen mode Oct 22 17:01:26 CM: yeah that was the main plan Oct 22 17:02:00 hmm ? Oct 22 17:02:11 what's wrong with "hold aux key -> fullscreen" ? Oct 22 17:02:11 Seems I need to rebuild Webkit first :( Oct 22 17:02:30 well, ok, you could check for fullscreen and then hide the tabs Oct 22 17:02:34 and the toolbar Oct 22 17:02:35 k Oct 22 17:02:42 * CM nods :) Oct 22 17:02:44 so we don't have two fullscreen modes Oct 22 17:02:50 just check for the fullscreen X property Oct 22 17:03:09 mickey-tw: I'll fool around with it a bit. I kind of promised you I would help out on that Oct 22 17:03:50 Philippe: right, i remember! :)) Oct 22 17:04:09 thinking about it... that would be slick Oct 22 17:04:21 adding more fullscreen-awareness into the apps Oct 22 17:04:57 anyway I noticed that people like some exit from fullscreen sign visually with touchscreens Oct 22 17:05:11 hmm Oct 22 17:05:12 pressing keys is counter-productive in some cases. Oct 22 17:05:16 that's tough Oct 22 17:05:24 perhaps a gesture Oct 22 17:05:31 non-intuitive :( Oct 22 17:05:31 we should have gestures anyways Oct 22 17:05:48 for the gpe-mini-browser I just have a small icon. Oct 22 17:06:02 Hmm.. What about being able to define gestures as shortcuts? Oct 22 17:06:05 ya, well but that means you have to touch every other app Oct 22 17:06:14 whereas my fullscreen implementation works with every app per se Oct 22 17:06:33 what about something like the various fs media players on desktops? they display a minimal gui on mouse/kbd action Oct 22 17:08:42 Stephmw: that's the only sensible interface for a video app, imho Oct 22 17:08:51 but for a browser? maybe not Oct 22 17:10:03 buz on small screen you really need the extra screen estate Oct 22 17:10:24 for browsing. As most websites these days expect at least 800x600 screens Oct 22 17:10:30 thats true Oct 22 17:10:42 depends on how you make them appear i guess Oct 22 17:10:48 touch the edge, get the gui? Oct 22 17:11:52 one or two small buttons in the upper right corner? Oct 22 17:12:13 at least a url button so you can keep surfing without having to hop in and out off fullscreen mode Oct 22 17:12:41 well it shouldnt hop in and out all Oct 22 17:12:57 this could really do with being mocked up in something like flash Oct 22 17:13:01 * Stephmw hides Oct 22 17:13:16 instead the gui shjould either slide in or maybe change from being transparent to entirely opaque Oct 22 17:13:27 err yes Oct 22 17:13:29 gta03 then Oct 22 17:13:30 :D Oct 22 17:14:31 well slide in should be doable no? Oct 22 17:14:36 buz: gui sliding makes for lot of redraws. Transparency is hard on the CPU too... Oct 22 17:14:54 On GTA02 - sliding should be free. Oct 22 17:15:01 hehe Oct 22 17:15:02 popping makes for confusing user Oct 22 17:15:07 Whole screen sliding on GTA01 can be almost free. Oct 22 17:15:20 (virtual screens) Oct 22 17:15:47 mickey-tw: can the GTA02 video hardware do virtual screens? Or is it limited to onboard only video RAM. Oct 22 17:16:25 SpeedEvil: i don't have the numbers offhand, but the video RAM is very small and all engines have to share it Oct 22 17:16:40 or make it sliding but with configurable number of redraws, if redraws is 1 it pops in immediately Oct 22 17:16:41 i don't think we have pxa27x style overlay either Oct 22 17:16:49 mickey-tw: thought not - thanks. Oct 22 17:16:55 * mwester notes that this problem was solved for television sets early in their development, when a bright young engineer realized that removing the knobs and switches from the center of the display, and placing them alongside same, allowed full-screen viewing. Plus, sealing the vaccuum tube was easier without knobs and switches in it. Oct 22 17:18:14 Perhap the GTA03 will have a few more buttons, making so many things so much easier (IMO at least)! Oct 22 17:18:27 it will Oct 22 17:18:32 mwester: nokia got the formfactor almost right with the n810 Oct 22 17:18:32 openmoko: 03chris * r3244 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Oct 22 17:18:32 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (bg_size_allocate_cb): Oct 22 17:18:32 openmoko: Check the size against the last allocated size, or we can get into Oct 22 17:18:32 openmoko: semi-infinite loops Oct 22 17:18:55 a good place for a button to activate a full ui (or somerhing else) maybe something in the corner where the scrollbars meet Oct 22 17:19:07 we will lose that estate on most websites anyway Oct 22 17:19:36 I've used firefox fullscreen, with MouseGestures Oct 22 17:19:38 no necessarily Oct 22 17:19:45 Drag left - back Oct 22 17:19:48 we could scroll by touching empty space on the page Oct 22 17:19:49 drag right, forward Oct 22 17:20:01 start in empty space, then drag wherever you want to go Oct 22 17:20:12 buz: true... I just wonder if Webkit already supports that Oct 22 17:20:15 (think the hand tool in pdf viewers) Oct 22 17:20:26 drag up-right, tap, and you get a menu popping out Oct 22 17:20:34 because we will have to tell it not to draw the toolbars Oct 22 17:21:13 I suppose there's always radial navigation... Oct 22 17:21:14 i dont like mouse gestures much myself Oct 22 17:21:26 buz: it's a lot better with two buttons. Oct 22 17:21:40 there was some guessing about possibly being able to know if two fingers touch the screen? Oct 22 17:21:57 i know we dont have full multi touch Oct 22 17:22:07 area average iirc, no? Oct 22 17:22:40 if you could do "scroll if two fingers" that would be better than trying tohit empty space Oct 22 17:23:12 You get the approximate bounding box of two touches Oct 22 17:23:27 so if the bounding box is huge enough -> scroll? Oct 22 17:23:52 sorry Oct 22 17:23:58 You get the approximate center of the bounding box of two touches Oct 22 17:24:09 thats useless then ;) Oct 22 17:24:19 you can derive that there has been a second touch from the first touch moving instantly Oct 22 17:24:25 is the pressure averaged too? Oct 22 17:24:43 It's not really that simple. Oct 22 17:24:45 SpeedEvil: but thats heuristic at best Oct 22 17:25:01 It doesn't measure pressure, it measures resistance Oct 22 17:25:14 this may or may not correlate with pressure. Oct 22 17:25:19 is it hardware or software that limits multi-touch right now? Oct 22 17:25:25 hardware Oct 22 17:25:26 hardware Oct 22 17:25:30 there are only four wires Oct 22 17:25:46 At best you can get the size and position of the bounding box. Oct 22 17:25:56 mhh suppose we use drag for scrolling Oct 22 17:25:57 the current hardware/software only outputs the center Oct 22 17:26:04 is there any other thing we really would like drag for? Oct 22 17:26:20 Whether the hardware can be configured to output the edges too is another question. Oct 22 17:26:21 marking text should be rare enough that you could have a tool for that Oct 22 17:26:59 and if you hit a link then drag that would be scrolling, too Oct 22 17:28:10 What would be so nice would be a tiny bluetooth pen. Oct 22 17:28:13 Bu... Oct 22 17:28:29 there's no python interpreter for the OpenMoko yet ? Oct 22 17:28:54 there is Oct 22 17:29:06 what is this then ? https://projects.openmoko.org/projects/python-openmoko/ Oct 22 17:29:18 Activity Percentile: 0% Oct 22 17:29:24 and no files Oct 22 17:29:44 probably to create python bindings for the moko apis Oct 22 17:35:44 openmoko: 03chris * r3245 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Oct 22 17:35:44 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (wallpaper_notify): Oct 22 17:35:44 openmoko: Check if value is NULL when reading wallpaper setting Oct 22 17:37:49 Leaving Neo off for 15 hours did not help w.r.t. my gsmd(-caused) problems. Oct 22 17:38:08 CVirus: just build python in OE and add it to your image Oct 22 17:38:21 OE ? Oct 22 17:38:42 or just install the relevant ipkg Oct 22 17:41:21 could someone maybe help me figure out why my make tries to build qemu-native-0.9.0+20070613-r5 when its supposed (according to CM) to build qemu-native-0.9.0+cvs Oct 22 17:42:03 if this is supposed to be a very old error. how come I get it when I just followed the guide http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU Oct 22 17:42:21 openmoko: 03chris * r3246 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appearance/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Oct 22 17:42:21 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Oct 22 17:42:21 openmoko: * src/appearance-background.[ch]: Oct 22 17:42:21 openmoko: * src/appearance-main.c: (main): Oct 22 17:42:21 openmoko: * src/appearance.h: Oct 22 17:42:21 faern: Btw, I assume the +cvs means the date, but I don't know why you get such an old one. Has it been frozen since then? Oct 22 17:42:23 openmoko: Add background chooser Oct 22 17:42:45 faern: Also, see if Any_Key is around, he's only using qemu and doesn't have a neo Oct 22 17:43:48 ok. he doesent seem to be online now. but thanks for the tip. Oct 22 17:52:51 for a US number that starts 617, do i just prepend +1 to get the international form? Oct 22 17:53:11 yes Oct 22 17:53:17 on all gsm phones i ever used anyway Oct 22 17:53:59 ok, i was just wondering because here you need to drop an initial zero too Oct 22 17:55:29 yeah, within the US they prefix 1 to specify a long distance call - but they don't quote it at the start of numbers, because it wasn't necessarily a 1 - it varied from one phone company to the next Oct 22 17:55:52 so you 'drop' the 1 (which often isn't shown) and then put +1 instead :-) Oct 22 17:56:07 i see :-) Oct 22 17:57:12 would you also know if i can get prepaid sim for my stay in boston - preferably with reasonable gprs pricing Oct 22 17:57:40 openmoko: 03mickey * r3247 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/128x128/apps/ (openmoko-system-default.gpn openmoko-system-default.png): artwork/icons: fix typo Oct 22 17:57:51 i find it interesting how differnet countries group numbers together: e.g. germany 0671 2222... switzerland 061 123 4567 Oct 22 17:58:07 folken: well, it depends on which bit is the area code. Oct 22 17:58:21 in switzerland area code is in fact 3 digits Oct 22 17:58:29 in ireland, you have 01 xxxxxxx, but 021 xxxxxxx and 0504 xxxxx Oct 22 17:58:30 it varies in .nl Oct 22 17:58:36 and french group and pronounce all numbers in groups of two? Oct 22 17:59:22 cjb_ie: actual the "1" is both a dialing prefix for "long distance" and the country code for world numbering zone 1 (north american and carribean). Oct 22 18:00:02 today 7 digit number signifies within the local 3 digit area code and 10 digit number includes the 3 digit area code. Oct 22 18:00:07 cjb_ie: i know, but when a german tells me a swiss phone number like "0611 234567" it feels really strange.. same when i go 067... Oct 22 18:00:15 openmoko: 03mickey * r3248 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/openmoko-mediaplayer.png: openmoko-mediaplayer2: add more beautiful icon Oct 22 18:00:16 Writchie: that's kinda what i was getting at. it looks like the 1 is overloaded... Oct 22 18:00:17 abraxa_: watch next commit Oct 22 18:00:25 yes. Oct 22 18:00:28 rofl Oct 22 18:00:30 Thanks ;) Oct 22 18:00:41 in us 011 is international prefix. Oct 22 18:00:56 1 is "long distance prefix" Oct 22 18:01:11 Writchie: and of course, in some areas, 1 wasn't used at all. you just dialled 7 digits, or 10, and the exchange figured out from the second digit whether it was an area code or not. Oct 22 18:01:22 until the great renumbering, of course. Oct 22 18:01:30 mickey-tw: I was about to set the same icon actually, lol Oct 22 18:01:31 many local exchange companies require the area code and 1 or not with no real rhyme or reason and even conflict within their own systems Oct 22 18:02:17 originally, area codes always had 0 or 1 as the middle digit and exchange prefixes were 2 - 0 Oct 22 18:02:27 s/0/9/ Oct 22 18:02:28 Writchie meant: originally, area codes always had 9 or 1 as the middle digit and exchange prefixes were 2 - 0 Oct 22 18:02:36 stupid bot Oct 22 18:02:52 area code had a 0 or 1 in middle - exchange prefixes 2-9 Oct 22 18:02:52 openmoko: 03mickey * r3249 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-browser.png openmoko-browser2.desktop): openmoko-browser2: add icon Oct 22 18:03:02 until they ran out of numbers Oct 22 18:07:06 a bit OT question but I don't find where discuss it: I uploaded a OGG file to my new sony ericsson w200 and it refuses to play, what can I do to play it? Oct 22 18:07:52 blame my phone manufacturer? Oct 22 18:08:15 nicfer: yeah Oct 22 18:09:04 yep Oct 22 18:09:12 well, there are no phone companies that support OGG so I should be blaming everyone... Oct 22 18:09:13 ogg support is rare in proprietary OSses Oct 22 18:09:21 FIC supports ogg Oct 22 18:09:25 kind of Oct 22 18:09:26 *cough* Oct 22 18:09:32 hehe Oct 22 18:10:14 same in nokia, same in motorola, same in samsung... same everywhere, right? Oct 22 18:10:43 where are the HW/DSP decoders for .ogg ? Oct 22 18:11:34 can't think of any OSS ones Oct 22 18:11:43 there is an integer-only one in software (tremor) Oct 22 18:11:58 integer only is usually good enough(tm) for FPU-less arches (like arm -> neo) Oct 22 18:12:47 anrp: didn't know about tremor will check it out Oct 22 18:13:10 g'night Oct 22 18:13:50 nicfer: the issue is that big, high profile manufacturers have big legal departements which are concered about the apparent patent and royalty free claims for ogg Oct 22 18:14:18 they are afraid of being sued. Oct 22 18:14:43 i think they simply dont see any demand Oct 22 18:15:15 buz: demand is pretty low, however the cost to add it is almost virtually nothing. Oct 22 18:15:24 you need to test it Oct 22 18:15:31 I don't know that human stupidity should come that far... Oct 22 18:15:52 buz: the Nokia internet tablets don't have ogg because the legal departement blocks it Oct 22 18:16:05 "how can you be sure we won't get sued if we can't get a license for it?" Oct 22 18:16:18 that would probably be the only device that would see demand for ogg ;9 Oct 22 18:16:32 *sigh* Oct 22 18:16:37 point them at iriver Oct 22 18:16:48 they've happily been shipping ogg for quite a while Oct 22 18:16:50 I spend some time tracking down a music player that does both ogg and usb mass storage Oct 22 18:17:06 my iriver H120 did... Oct 22 18:17:13 yeah the new ones don't Oct 22 18:17:18 boo. Oct 22 18:17:23 I am very happy with my Trekstor Oct 22 18:17:29 well... maybe I have to stick to the sicky mp3... Oct 22 18:17:48 damn stupid manufacturers Oct 22 18:18:06 (yes, I am very angry) Oct 22 18:18:23 ckuethe: and legal's argument to other companies shipping it are that it is their problem if they get sued, and that they probably won't get sued because they are too small Oct 22 18:18:35 nicfer: blame lawyers Oct 22 18:19:05 thats always a good idea Oct 22 18:19:10 Philippe most samsung flash players do support ogg afaik Oct 22 18:19:19 most of them have broken UMS though Oct 22 18:27:49 i think that rockbox put on (whatever it supports) does ogg and usb mass storage Oct 22 18:28:01 it supports the earlier ipods and some others? Oct 22 18:32:03 anrp its just totally unusable since it does not use any hw support and sucks empty the battery Oct 22 18:32:44 ah, well, i didn't know that much D: Oct 22 18:32:54 >.> Oct 22 18:49:37 mwester: around? Oct 22 18:56:02 something messed with the matchbox applets (and their fontsize) Oct 22 18:56:32 but mwesters kernel did revive what I considered a borked image. Oct 22 19:03:53 now I can do mundane things like make libgsmd-tool sl (list SMS) not segfault. Oct 22 19:17:00 * * OM Bug 953 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org Oct 22 19:17:02 * * openmoko-today r3245 doesn't build Oct 22 19:17:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=953 Oct 22 19:24:20 nick neott Oct 22 19:24:38 any changes in todays r4 kernel? Oct 22 19:26:20 humdiedum, applet seems unaware that gsm is already registered. how puny :) Oct 22 19:28:32 oryn: r4? Oct 22 19:28:47 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r4-fic-gta01-20071022093816.bin Oct 22 19:29:40 good Q, they have a changelog somewhere? Oct 22 19:30:22 * Kero reboots his Neo just to stress his current kernel Oct 22 19:35:30 /msg nickserv link ttneo neo1973 Oct 22 19:35:39 oyoyoy Oct 22 19:36:10 ;) Oct 22 19:36:21 hm, that was *not* a pasasword Oct 22 19:36:35 it was a "link" whatever that my be :) Oct 22 19:54:46 Hello! I am trying to follow the Using Audio Wiki instruction in the Getting_Started guide, I noticed that I don't have /etc/alsa in my rootfs image, rather that I have /etc/asound* files, do I miss something here? Oct 22 19:55:48 I had tried my own builts from top of the 2007.2 tree and from the buildhost Oct 22 19:58:19 ttneo: What do you want to do? Activate your speakers? Oct 22 20:07:29 abraxa: bascially, also like to try playing mp3 file, though I couldn't get my media player started from uI Oct 22 20:07:53 I got my p1 just last week so trying to go through the features Oct 22 20:10:47 ttneo: If you can't hear anything from the speakers at all you might want to try restoring an ALSA profile: "alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore" Oct 22 20:11:14 Aside from that you might want to try a new image - the media player was missing some dependencies until a couple days ago Oct 22 20:14:55 ok, will give that a try, as well as getting a new image Oct 22 20:16:05 just curious, so what's with the "/etc/alsa" directory from the wiki? A legacy configuration? Oct 22 20:16:23 yes Oct 22 20:17:32 thx Oct 22 20:56:03 ...and all is quiet again... Oct 22 20:59:08 abraxa_, that's because you are not complaining about the ffmpeg plugin anymore! :) Oct 22 20:59:27 hehe Oct 22 21:03:36 Yeah, I'm gave up on gst-ffmpeg, even after reading the code and digging through thousands of gst debug output it is still a mystery to me as to why it won't handle video/mpeg when it really, really should Oct 22 21:03:40 I gave* Oct 22 21:05:03 on ARM? Oct 22 21:06:15 Yeah Oct 22 21:07:02 If you looked really deep, it must be that it's something ridiculously stupid :) Oct 22 21:07:47 I'm not doubting it but gst did find and index the library Oct 22 21:11:09 * Kero gives up GPRS for now. chap succeeds then ppp bails out with an LCP TermReq Oct 22 21:11:40 already switched off ccp, so it's no longer ProtRej... Oct 22 21:13:00 * * OM Bug 954 has been created by bugslayer(AT)o2.pl Oct 22 21:13:01 * * MokoMakefile does not build image files even after successful packages compilation Oct 22 21:13:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=954 Oct 22 21:16:12 Kero try killing gsmd Oct 22 21:16:12 * Kero punched and bashed gsmd quite heavily while trying; seems stable. Oct 22 21:16:25 kristian-m: done a few times already Oct 22 21:16:45 kristian-m: the connection is established, and then killed. Oct 22 21:16:56 Kero you've got to be connected to the network first tehn kill gsmd then start pppd Oct 22 21:16:59 perhaps I should verify my subscription allows gprs Oct 22 21:17:10 que? Oct 22 21:17:25 ok, will try Oct 22 21:17:50 Kero hmm, you could also try settinsgui Oct 22 21:18:17 no, same behaviour without gsmd Oct 22 21:19:50 Kero try playing around with auth settings... Oct 22 21:20:01 Kero and compression settings Oct 22 21:20:30 compression certainly upset the thing (hence noccp, and no more ProtRej) Oct 22 21:20:43 chap succeeds. not sure what to improve on that? Oct 22 21:20:48 I wish it supported compression. Oct 22 21:21:23 Kero try using a user and a password setting in the pppd config Oct 22 21:22:37 like what? Oct 22 21:23:02 pppd uses hostname (huh?) and i've also tried vodafone + vodafon Oct 22 21:23:11 Kero http://mput.de/~kristian/.openmoko/GlobalConfiguration.py.html <-- at the buttom of that file Oct 22 21:25:44 neither. Oct 22 21:25:55 Kero hmm sry Oct 22 21:26:00 * Kero needs to talk to his provider anyway (change subscription to prepaid) Oct 22 21:26:27 can interrogate tem about GPRS too. Oct 22 21:26:47 Kero whats the chat error message? Oct 22 21:27:06 Kero hmm, okay Oct 22 21:27:40 sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] Oct 22 21:27:40 rcvd [LCP TermReq id=0x9 0b 21] Oct 22 21:27:40 LCP terminated by peer (^K!) Oct 22 21:27:49 right after it says chap succeeded. Oct 22 21:31:08 Kero hmm no idea - I've had the same error once though... :-/ Oct 22 21:31:37 er': you do have the 'noipdefault' line in ppp config? Oct 22 21:32:44 yes Oct 22 21:48:30 hi Oct 22 21:48:50 any relevant news? Oct 22 21:51:15 Again, not really. Oct 22 21:53:07 no. took a while, but my kernel is spending 100% in [events/0] once more :( Oct 22 21:59:31 uhm... has anyone in here played with pulseaudio? i've tested the examples and made a recoding and playing application - well, the lag on the local host is ~1 second Oct 22 21:59:56 so i can imagine that having a voip application with pulseaudio may be a bit laggish ;) Oct 22 22:07:00 CM, I get the same error now, and this time I did everything over on my laptop Oct 22 22:07:44 can someone confirm that gcc-3.4.6 & http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile is the correct versions of everything Oct 22 22:12:23 has anyone seen this on todays build? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/e003b3f86b732609b6ed8ddae0b3b998.png Oct 22 22:13:15 seems as if the windowmanager wasnt started but there is a matchbox running Oct 22 22:14:19 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/869448be9407dee4cd881b5508069b81.png - just curious, is that some new look? Oct 22 22:14:45 Vegar the default gtk theme i guess Oct 22 22:14:50 yeah, looks like Oct 22 22:17:07 hmm the matchbox theme directory is missing on my image, build today. - and i also have a gtk ignoring the openmoko2 theme Oct 22 22:19:12 user interface of the new browser is clever though Oct 23 00:07:52 * nelson hugs his neo1973-recharging-using-usb Oct 23 00:08:11 nelson, what kind of capabilities does the current 1973 have? Oct 23 00:08:30 you can play nifty games on it Oct 23 00:08:36 basically how manipulable is it? Oct 23 00:08:41 At the moment. Oct 23 00:08:47 IT's a small linux box. Oct 23 00:08:51 what distro? Oct 23 00:08:59 jleong_: openmoko Oct 23 00:09:00 Which can run normal desktop software - pretty much. Oct 23 00:09:04 produced using openembedded. Oct 23 00:09:08 And has some prototype apps. Oct 23 00:09:17 which implement the phone part of it. Oct 23 00:09:37 nelson, can you explain a little more about openembeded what does that mean Oct 23 00:09:47 it's a build system. Oct 23 00:09:49 does it have graphics libraries and such or sdk to develop on it? Oct 23 00:10:04 It's Linux running X and gtk. Oct 23 00:10:21 hmm, ok. how does one program or interface with the phone part Oct 23 00:10:26 to make calls etc Oct 23 00:10:31 it's a modem. ATDT Oct 23 00:10:49 although, rather, I expect there's a demon that you talk to. Oct 23 00:11:00 there is the libgsmd library for that. Which talks to the gsmd daemon. Oct 23 00:11:02 nelson, doesn't it support gsm? Oct 23 00:11:07 Which isn't very stable at the moment. Oct 23 00:11:11 like sim? Oct 23 00:11:14 but anyway, that's how you do it. Oct 23 00:11:15 it would be insane if everybody tried to open teh serial port and play with it. Oct 23 00:11:26 jleong_: yes, it uses a sim card Oct 23 00:11:44 how much flexability does one have to hack the hardware.. integrate gps and other modules? Oct 23 00:11:56 it has gps Oct 23 00:12:21 it's a cellphone. It has to be sturdy and not allow ingress of ESD. Oct 23 00:12:33 ah right Oct 23 00:12:38 otherwise, not much, but a bit. SpeedEvil knows better... Oct 23 00:12:47 It has a USB port, which may or may not support USB OTG. Oct 23 00:13:00 does it interface with things via i2c? Oct 23 00:13:03 nelson: it doesn't Oct 23 00:13:13 nelson: but it can do host mode Oct 23 00:13:17 client only? Oct 23 00:13:25 Oh, okay, well, THAT doesn't suck. Oct 23 00:13:31 jleong_: there are solderable-to pads on the motherboard, and it's brought out on the debug Oct 23 00:13:35 jleong_: there are solderable-to pads on the motherboard, and it's brought out on the debug connector Oct 23 00:13:40 nelson: no, client/host Oct 23 00:13:56 hmm ahh Oct 23 00:14:08 jleong_: I suggest you look at the wiki. Oct 23 00:14:19 The neo1973 page - and the harware specs Oct 23 00:15:30 ah ok Oct 23 00:15:41 SpeedEvil, do you have a neo? Oct 23 00:16:05 What kind of things have you done with it? or anybody for that matter? personally modifications Oct 23 00:16:25 I think people are trying to get the software to work, and work well. Oct 23 00:16:29 yes, not much, planning to make a hardware accellerometer addon Oct 23 00:17:09 SpeedEvil, was thinking bought that - so let's say we solder onto the pads. How would we communicate to it via code? Oct 23 00:18:16 jleong_: as you would with any other i2c device. Oct 23 00:18:23 ah ok, so it is i2c Oct 23 00:18:27 Read the source Oct 23 00:18:34 ah ok Oct 23 01:14:45 Hmmm..... the "arp pub" method of getting a USB device online isn't mentioned. Oct 23 01:14:49 (in the wiki) Oct 23 01:23:49 * nelson needs to buy a sim card. I'm in the U.S. Recommended vendors? Presumably pre-paid. Oct 23 01:29:34 Hmmmm.... the GTA01 has an AGPS chip? Not a real GPS receiver? Oct 23 01:36:00 * nelson speculates that all of the OpenMoko developers are in Europe and have gone to bed. Oct 23 01:36:55 GTA01 can do standalone GPS Oct 23 01:37:11 AGPS just mean that the solver can use external assistance data Oct 23 01:41:55 Reading Hammerhead/Protocol. Wow, this looks like the GPS receiver is just a radio, and relies on the ARM processor for GPS computations. Oct 23 02:01:16 hi there. Oct 23 02:01:40 how do I restart openmoko ui from remote ssh shell ? (today crashed) Oct 23 02:02:07 Pengu1n: /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart Oct 23 02:02:14 thax Oct 23 02:02:44 nelson: Nope. The US ones were watching Heroes Oct 23 02:03:05 yeah, we also got some debug info in this way:) Oct 23 02:17:54 why I cann't access internet in the neo1973? usb net has been setup. 192.168.0.202 -> 200, resolv.conf has ben set. host iptables -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE. Oct 23 02:18:32 Pengu1n: can the neo ping the host? Oct 23 02:19:43 sagacis_: I have to download it. No NBC for me. Oct 23 02:19:52 Pengu1n: hi. Oct 23 02:20:11 Pengu1n: how do you get on the Internet? Oct 23 02:21:42 through eth0 on my host Oct 23 02:22:30 is there any API documents/reference manual for libmokoui2? Oct 23 02:23:04 Pengu1n: what does your eth0 connect to? Oct 23 02:23:18 Pengu1n: is there a DHCP server Oct 23 02:24:14 no, I can access internet on my host. Oct 23 02:24:39 Pengu1n: can you run ``route'' on your host and /msg me with the output? Oct 23 02:24:46 and I can ping from 0.200 to 0.202, and vice vesa Oct 23 02:25:08 Pengu1n: You may need a default route on your neo (although it should be there) Oct 23 02:27:17 It's here already. Oct 23 02:27:35 set to 192.168.0.200 (my host) Oct 23 02:28:24 echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward Oct 23 02:28:30 well, what I did on my machine was to switch to using "real" addresses on my eth0, Oct 23 02:28:33 I missed this one:) Oct 23 02:28:57 turn on ip_forward, and use sudo arp -i eth0 -s 192.168.1.202 5A:E6:4C:AF:36:26 pub Oct 23 02:29:04 Yes, I can access internet from my neo now:) wowo Oct 23 02:29:38 cool. Yes, the MASQUERADE is what does it. Oct 23 02:30:26 I'm familiar with the NAT, but forgot the must not missed configure: ip_forward:) Oct 23 02:31:44 I've upgrade all pkg on my neo to svn trunk, everything same to far fast than before Oct 23 02:36:46 crap. I think I left my neo off yesterday. Oct 23 02:36:54 how can I copy a new pkg into qemu, and intall it in the qemu? Oct 23 02:37:40 sagacis_ make call to you neo, then you would find it by the ring tone Oct 23 02:38:18 The problem is if you power off the neo and don't remove the battery, it will drain down too far to boot. Oct 23 02:38:47 I was plugged into my computer usb, so I thought it would be safe, but powered down. Oct 23 02:38:53 hey, i was wondering if there are any plans yet for the design of the phone that comes after GTA02? Oct 23 02:38:56 Now I can't boot. Oct 23 02:39:44 i really like the idea, the phone... almost everything about openmoko and the neo1973 but i don't know if i like that big loop for a belt/lanyard :P Oct 23 02:40:04 * Moniker42 would maybe wait for an iteration that doesn't have the hole Oct 23 02:40:07 Moniker42: It's a mic input/gsm antenna Oct 23 02:40:17 oh Oct 23 02:40:23 It's actually a great thumbhold for landscape mode Oct 23 02:40:40 now that's different... Oct 23 02:40:58 i thought the phone was just an unnecessary 2-3cm longer for the sake of a lanyard :P Oct 23 02:41:41 any pictures of the phone with gsm aerial/mic plugged in? Oct 23 02:42:22 Moniker42: I mean the gsm aerial is *inside* the loop Oct 23 02:42:30 ah Oct 23 02:42:37 Moniker42: The hole for onboard mic input is inside there, too. Oct 23 02:42:38 now that makes a lot of sense, now i think about it. Oct 23 02:42:46 Hmmmm.... not obvious from the user interface how to exit a program. Oct 23 02:43:03 The lanyard idea is hokey. Who's gonna have their phone flopping about like that? Oct 23 02:43:08 =) Oct 23 02:43:17 Somebody with a good source of touch-screens, I guess. Oct 23 02:43:19 the neo just made my christmas shopping list Oct 23 02:43:22 it does seem a little silly. Oct 23 02:43:33 wait, will i be able to buy it in the UK? Oct 23 02:43:37 Sure. Oct 23 02:43:40 You can buy it anywhere. Oct 23 02:43:50 It's freedom, maaaan.... Oct 23 02:44:20 * Moniker42 will resist breaking it by installing ubuntu on it Oct 23 02:44:31 Moniker42: It won't fit. Oct 23 02:45:07 is there any scope for using the usb port to power peripherals like a small usb camera? Oct 23 02:45:27 it's unpowered Oct 23 02:45:30 so - no Oct 23 02:46:15 powered USB hub. Oct 23 02:46:58 i guess that would work :) Oct 23 02:47:20 hmmm Oct 23 02:47:30 should i get it in orange or black thought? :) Oct 23 02:47:33 *though Oct 23 02:48:44 black Oct 23 02:48:59 ack, all the phones are black Oct 23 02:49:07 my phone is black and has been for nearly two years Oct 23 02:50:11 hi. I've determined my kernel version is 2.6.20-7-moko8... I'm looking to upgrade but I'm not sure if it's "safe" to move to the 20070916 snapshot... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 23 02:59:57 2007