**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 25 02:59:57 2007
Oct 25 04:25:36 <demon> Anyone know whats up with openmoko.com?   My connection keeps timing out.  Traceroute  failing somewhere in Germany.
Oct 25 04:28:27 <mickey-tw> scheduled downtime
Oct 25 04:32:16 * CM will look for updates soon
Oct 25 04:32:29 <mickey-tw> just maintenance
Oct 25 04:32:36 <mickey-tw> at this point of time, i don´t expect updates
Oct 25 04:32:40 <CM> Ahh... Too bad :)
Oct 25 04:33:00 <CM> Just some updated screenshots would be nice, since it's still only showing the old GUI
Oct 25 04:33:07 <mickey-tw> well, there might be announcements later this year. about new directions and stuff
Oct 25 04:33:15 <CM> *nod*
Oct 25 04:33:15 <mickey-tw> yes, i will pester some folks to update the site
Oct 25 04:34:13 <CM> At least it seems you survived the "new directions" meeting today so I guess it went ok ;)
Oct 25 04:40:26 <mickey-tw> well
Oct 25 04:40:31 <mickey-tw> yes i am still here ;)
Oct 25 05:10:46 <JOSF> Hello!
Oct 25 05:20:06 <CM> JOSF: Good morning :)
Oct 25 05:28:17 <JOSF> Good morning CM. I am surprised to find so many people here. I thought, OpenMoko is still for developers only, but this just gives me moment when I felt, that a Linux smartphone is extremley needed :)
Oct 25 05:30:18 <CM> JOSF: I think there's been over 300 ppl here since August at least
Oct 25 05:30:26 <JOSF> That's nice.
Oct 25 05:30:27 <CM> And quite a few before that too
Oct 25 05:30:37 <CM> And yes, it's still "developers only"
Oct 25 05:30:41 <CM> :)
Oct 25 05:31:01 <CM> JOSF: Several of the main devs are here too and it's a very friendly channel :)
Oct 25 05:31:12 * CM glances at mickey-tw 
Oct 25 05:31:41 * mickey-tw waves
Oct 25 05:31:46 <CM> :D
Oct 25 05:32:24 <mickey-tw> we are working to put get more taiwan engineers to here
Oct 25 05:32:26 <mickey-tw> they are a bit shy
Oct 25 05:32:31 <mickey-tw> and the english is sometimes a problem
Oct 25 05:32:43 <mickey-tw> but that should improve
Oct 25 05:32:53 <CM> Well, the majority here doesn't speak english natively anyway
Oct 25 05:33:52 <Q_Continuum> I'll be getting one.  My router runs linux, my laptop and server run Linux...now I want my phone to run Linux. :D
Oct 25 05:34:18 <CM> Q_Continuum: Waiting for a GTA02 or do you want a GTA01?
Oct 25 05:34:26 <Q_Continuum> I'm going to wait.
Oct 25 05:34:31 <Q_Continuum> I'm not much of a developer
Oct 25 05:34:43 <JOSF> What is the diff between the two ?
Oct 25 05:34:46 <CM> Well, me neither, I'm a lazy bastard
Oct 25 05:34:49 <JOSF> WiFi ?
Oct 25 05:34:56 <Q_Continuum> 01 is the "dev" model
Oct 25 05:35:12 <Q_Continuum> 02 is the general consumer ready "release" model.
Oct 25 05:35:17 <CM> JOSF: Yes, and faster processor, more flash, graphios accelerator and accelerometers
Oct 25 05:35:18 <Q_Continuum> basically, its still in "beta"
Oct 25 05:35:22 <JOSF> So, the 01 is the one you can not place a call with, the 02 will be different then ;-)
Oct 25 05:35:30 <Q_Continuum> Yeah.
Oct 25 05:35:33 <CM> No, you can call with 01
Oct 25 05:35:47 <Q_Continuum> Sweet.
Oct 25 05:35:50 <CM> But the software is still not done
Oct 25 05:35:58 <JOSF> I just hope, that the design of the 02 will not bu such a crap like the design of the 01. I mean, the visual design.
Oct 25 05:36:07 <CM> I can't call right now though, I've called up all my credits on my prepaid card.. :P
Oct 25 05:36:13 <Q_Continuum> haha
Oct 25 05:36:22 <CM> JOSF: Hehe... Too bad for you ;)
Oct 25 05:36:30 <JOSF> Originally I wanted to buy a Motorola A780, but then Harald stepped over to develop for OpenMoko
Oct 25 05:36:38 <CM> It will use the same shell, but with LEDs in the two buttons
Oct 25 05:36:56 <JOSF> Urgh...:(
Oct 25 05:37:07 <CM> JOSF: He's here (LaF0rge) quite often
Oct 25 05:37:30 <CM> Naa.. I think it's pretty neat looking. Sure does stand out compared to other phones
Oct 25 05:37:55 <JOSF> To me it looks emberassing. Like a Playschool toy ;)
Oct 25 05:37:56 <CM> And the texture of the shell is nice
Oct 25 05:38:05 <CM> Hehe.. Well, maybe the white-orange one
Oct 25 05:38:09 <JOSF> At least the white/orange
Oct 25 05:38:10 <CM> I have black silver
Oct 25 05:38:18 * CM is faster.. :-P
Oct 25 05:38:19 <Q_Continuum> JOSF: So get the emulated version, and write your own GUI, and design a new case for it :P
Oct 25 05:38:19 <JOSF> but the black-silver looks stupid too.
Oct 25 05:38:38 <Q_Continuum> I'll be getting the black-silver one, between the two currently available.
Oct 25 05:38:49 <JOSF> I think the A780 looks perfect. Mucho macho techno ;-)
Oct 25 05:38:52 <CM> Q_Continuum: Actually, you could design a new case. *It's easy to open and pick apart
Oct 25 05:39:02 <Q_Continuum> I might have to wait for 03 though, not sure I'll have the $$$ for a NeoGeo on 02 release.
Oct 25 05:39:08 <Q_Continuum> CM: I know :D
Oct 25 05:39:30 <Q_Continuum> JOSF: Design something people like, even YOU could make money off the phone.
Oct 25 05:39:31 <JOSF> Q_Continuum: Where is the emu ? Does it run on Win32 ? ;-) I have currently only a headless linux box. Desktop is WinXP here.
Oct 25 05:39:32 <CM> Well, I'm afraid you'll still have quite some time to save to a GTA02.. 
Oct 25 05:39:47 <CM> JOSF: It runs in qemu
Oct 25 05:39:57 <Q_Continuum> Isn't it December or so for GTA02?
Oct 25 05:40:04 <CM> JOSF: Or you can install ubuntu or something in a VM
Oct 25 05:40:22 <JOSF> CM: Only P4 Northwood here. No dual-core, no special-ops
Oct 25 05:40:26 <Q_Continuum> Win32..?  What's this Win32 you speak of? lol
Oct 25 05:40:27 <CM> Q_Continuum: Hopefully, but it's not official yet that it will be available there
Oct 25 05:40:34 <JOSF> Q_Continuum: hehe
Oct 25 05:40:42 <CM> JOSF: Run VMWare then if you have enough ram?
Oct 25 05:40:48 <Q_Continuum> I run one Win-XP64 box, for my legacy games.
Oct 25 05:40:49 <JOSF> 2GB :)
Oct 25 05:41:09 <CM> Install vmware player and there you go :D
Oct 25 05:41:09 <JOSF> yeah, games, har-har. Har-Har!
Oct 25 05:41:17 <JOSF> got it ;)
Oct 25 05:41:27 <Q_Continuum> This is my primary workstation.  Dell-preloaded Ubuntu laptop.
Oct 25 05:41:36 <CM> JOSF: You mean you run windows and don't use it for games?!
Oct 25 05:41:40 <JOSF> so, what is this "design a new enclosure" you people talk about ? Is this official ? Do they offer this ?
Oct 25 05:41:50 <Q_Continuum> You can do whatever you want to your phone.
Oct 25 05:41:58 <JOSF> CM: I use it for many things, including games.
Oct 25 05:42:05 <JOSF> Ah, I understand.
Oct 25 05:42:17 <CM> JOSF: No, but there's people planning to add customised shells or backs to the phone
Oct 25 05:42:25 <CM> There's a lot of discussions in the wiki
Oct 25 05:42:25 <Q_Continuum> The specs are all there - the tools are there - they WANT you to modify it and improve it.
Oct 25 05:42:32 <JOSF> I thought, there may have been some action being taken to make the exterioeur design also "OpenSpec" ;-))
Oct 25 05:42:43 <JOSF> Will look that up in the wiki
Oct 25 05:42:57 <JOSF> cool
Oct 25 05:43:01 <Q_Continuum> the specs are there...just no "standard" that I'm aware of for the case.  But you could certainly design one around it :D
Oct 25 05:43:11 <Q_Continuum> Then again, I haven't paid much attention to the development.
Oct 25 05:43:22 <JOSF> Then I only need to find someone, who ports Mozilla to it and then I can throw out the UI they have ;)
Oct 25 05:43:38 <Q_Continuum> Hmmm.
Oct 25 05:43:41 * CM has been hangingout in #openmoko for 11 months today
Oct 25 05:43:54 * Q_Continuum pops over to his moz-irc tabs and asks the question
Oct 25 05:43:58 <CM> JOSF: What do you mean port?
Oct 25 05:44:15 <CM> JOSF: Everything that's in OpenEmbedded runs on the neo, basically
Oct 25 05:44:33 <CM> Besides, WebKit is comming along nicely
Oct 25 05:44:33 <JOSF> Firefox is available for OpenMoko? Really? Now, that's cool.
Oct 25 05:44:37 <Q_Continuum> it IS linux.
Oct 25 05:44:42 <JOSF> WebKit has no XUL.
Oct 25 05:44:51 <Q_Continuum> So write it.
Oct 25 05:44:55 <JOSF> I want a SmartPhone, that has XUL as the only interface.
Oct 25 05:45:08 <Q_Continuum> No one is stopping you - get coding! lol
Oct 25 05:45:19 <JOSF> No time.
Oct 25 05:45:23 <CM> JOSF: Hmm.. I think emdete was planning some kind of browser interface too
Oct 25 05:45:34 <JOSF> emdete ?
Oct 25 05:45:46 <JOSF> Ah, a user here :)
Oct 25 05:45:51 <CM> JOSF: Also, then I guess you've been keeping track of the effort to make a FireFox for mobilies
Oct 25 05:45:56 <CM> Yes, user here
Oct 25 05:46:09 <JOSF> There was the Minimo project.
Oct 25 05:46:19 <JOSF> The new project (Firefox mobile) will take some time.
Oct 25 05:46:22 <CM> But I think he was more into using javascript to expose the phone things
Oct 25 05:46:25 <CM> Yes
Oct 25 05:46:29 <JOSF> I'd say >1.5 years
Oct 25 05:46:52 <JOSF> Minimo is abandoned, proof-of-concept, unstable. And as far as I remember, WinMobile only.
Oct 25 05:47:15 <CM> I think minimo has been revived a bit, or at least I've head some mumbeling like that
Oct 25 05:47:29 <JOSF> I think, that a traditional GUI is the wrong way to go for a phone. I also think, that the hardware and the GUI must be considered to be one part.
Oct 25 05:47:34 <JOSF> Buttons, Wheels, etc.
Oct 25 05:47:40 <CM> JOSF: Anyway, ninimo exists for OpenEmbedded
Oct 25 05:47:55 * CM tries to compile it now to see what it looks like on the Neo
Oct 25 05:48:21 <CM> s/nini/Mini/
Oct 25 05:48:22 <apt> CM meant: JOSF: Anyway, Minimo exists for OpenEmbedded
Oct 25 05:48:23 <JOSF> But I think I have to wait and see. There is a project embedding Python as another scripting-language for XUL, so this may be interesting.
Oct 25 05:48:47 <CM> I've never understood XUL
Oct 25 05:49:04 <JOSF> CM: XUL is like HTML.
Oct 25 05:49:22 <CM> Yes, I've seen it, but I haven't gotten the greatness of it :)
Oct 25 05:49:24 <JOSF> Instead HTML they use a specialized XML dialect, add Javascript and CSS. That's all.
Oct 25 05:49:39 * CM likes C, C#, Java, Python and Ruby :)
Oct 25 05:49:42 <JOSF> You can write applications with it.
Oct 25 05:50:10 <JOSF> And a lot of people undrestand it because it is so simple.
Oct 25 05:50:12 <CM> Yes, I've poked around some FireFox add-ins, but still.. Naaa.. :)
Oct 25 05:50:40 <JOSF> To me it is the ideal platform for any communication software like on a smartphone.
Oct 25 05:50:51 <JOSF> It's got SVG, which is scalable.
Oct 25 05:51:02 <JOSF> Ah, too much text I'd need to write now ;-)
Oct 25 05:51:11 <CM> Yes, I've seen tetris implemented in svg ;)
Oct 25 05:51:27 <CM> I wonder how slow minimo is on the Neo though...
Oct 25 05:51:39 <JOSF> I must put my article online that I have written about my ideal smartphone (with XUL, Twisted and Python)
Oct 25 05:51:50 * CM is still checking out the sources from mozilla
Oct 25 05:52:03 <CM> JOSF: Do that!
Oct 25 05:52:19 <JOSF> Okay, must go back to my XSLT ;-) Thanks for chat!
Oct 25 05:52:49 <CM> welcome back later on :)
Oct 25 05:53:08 <CM> I'll tell you how minimo worked ;)
Oct 25 05:53:17 * CM starts getting some real work done
Oct 25 06:21:54 <Batalyx> heikkit: moi 
Oct 25 06:22:11 <heikkit> hei
Oct 25 06:24:40 <Batalyx> still in U.S.?
Oct 25 06:25:30 <CM> Batalyx: Looks like it judging from hsd1.ca.comcast.net ;)
Oct 25 06:27:18 <Batalyx> heikkit: I presume you're the same heikkit I know from a few years back from jyu :)
Oct 25 06:28:06 <heikkit> Batalyx: oh, yeah, the same, and still in California
Oct 25 06:30:19 <heikkit> Batalyx: so you went through all those companies, just to return back to jyu :)
Oct 25 06:30:23 * heikkit peeked at linkedin
Oct 25 06:30:40 <Batalyx> heikkit: jep
Oct 25 06:31:02 <heikkit> Batalyx: was it you who was foaming about Python back in those days?
Oct 25 06:31:16 <Batalyx> I think this still is the least worst option for me. And yes, it was me.
Oct 25 06:31:31 <heikkit> Batalyx: just kinda funny that only in my current company have I actually fallen in with python
Oct 25 06:32:16 <heikkit> could say you were ahead of the times with python back then, or maybe I should say visionary ;)
Oct 25 06:32:29 <Batalyx> thanks :)
Oct 25 06:33:20 <Batalyx> it's easy to say now that "it was obvious", but back then I should have foamed even more (if that would've been possible)
Oct 25 06:33:50 * CM has yet to fully jump onto the python bandwaggon
Oct 25 06:34:31 <heikkit> the forced indentation kept me off of it quite a while; now I love it
Oct 25 06:34:48 <Batalyx> ;)
Oct 25 06:34:58 <heikkit> I blame fortran
Oct 25 06:35:37 <Batalyx> don't we all?
Oct 25 06:35:47 <heikkit> heh
Oct 25 06:36:04 <heikkit> so you hacking openmoko yet?
Oct 25 06:36:39 <Batalyx> try to. to be honest, it's a bit hard still.
Oct 25 06:36:45 * heikkit nods
Oct 25 06:37:08 <heikkit> I am a bit on the fence about getting one... I really like to have a camera with my phone
Oct 25 06:37:21 <Batalyx> I've got a few ideas to try out, but as they are based on using GPS, I can only wait...
Oct 25 06:37:58 <Batalyx> yes, camera would be nice. i managed to get the university to order two neos, so ... :)
Oct 25 06:38:04 <heikkit> :)
Oct 25 06:38:06 * CM wonders what the HXD8 is
Oct 25 06:38:25 <Batalyx> at least it has a camera :)
Oct 25 06:38:32 <CM> Exactly
Oct 25 06:38:35 <CM> heikkit: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
Oct 25 06:39:06 <heikkit> thanks
Oct 25 06:40:19 <heikkit> well, I think I better get some sleep, earlyish commute tomorrow
Oct 25 06:40:43 <heikkit> Batalyx: if you happen to find yourself traveling to the Bay Area, give me a ping
Oct 25 06:41:53 * heikkit should stop playing with compiz
Oct 25 06:42:06 <Batalyx> :)
Oct 25 06:42:14 <heikkit> some runaway nautilus process is messing up my system
Oct 25 06:42:16 <Batalyx> I will :)
Oct 25 06:42:24 * heikkit waves
Oct 25 06:49:10 <CM> mickey-tw: Reading this comment reminded me what you've said about Harald and Sean... ;) http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=339039&threshold=3&mode=thread&cid=21108517
Oct 25 06:51:27 * CM finds work frustrating when all you're allowed to do is to wait for the others to finish their parts...
Oct 25 06:53:58 <CM> Wow, the Neo and OpenMoko in Wired: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2007/10/openmoko_firstlook?currentPage=all
Oct 25 06:59:52 <mbuf> CM, isn't there an OpenMoko dance you can do until then?
Oct 25 07:00:03 <roh> CM i wonder where the camera in the wiki comes from.. 
Oct 25 07:00:36 <CM> roh: I think someone just added it because the SoC supports one or something
Oct 25 07:01:10 <roh> CM well.. the soc does a lot of fancy things in theory..  (if you don't read the datasheet about muxed pins)
Oct 25 07:01:35 * CM nods
Oct 25 07:01:40 <roh> don't get me wrong.. i do not and will not state what hxd8 is yet and if ot has a cam ;)
Oct 25 07:02:08 <roh> CM i just suggest that this information should be researched for its source
Oct 25 07:02:34 <CM> It does have a bit "Speculation" warning at the top of the page :)
Oct 25 07:03:29 <CM> Btw, the wired article was quite positive, even if the guy flashed qtopia onto his Neo after failing to call with OpenMoko ;)
Oct 25 07:07:45 <mickey-tw> CM: ooh interesting!
Oct 25 07:08:02 <mickey-tw> (the optimism/pessimism thing)
Oct 25 07:14:57 <nbd> as always, the truth is somewhere inbetween both sides
Oct 25 07:24:03 <mbuf> building with bitbake, (and autotools) if i don't get a image/usr/bin directory in "build/tmp/work/armv4t.../packagename" , what am I missing?
Oct 25 07:25:25 <Hopscotch> good morning
Oct 25 07:25:36 <mbuf> Hopscotch, good morning
Oct 25 07:26:43 <mbuf> ok, answering my own question, have to create directory using "install -m 0755 -d ${D}${bindir}"
Oct 25 07:32:10 <CM> mbuf: You're good at answering your own questions, I approve! :P
Oct 25 07:32:30 <mbuf> CM, hehe
Oct 25 07:45:40 <ScaredyCat> .ee
Oct 25 07:57:37 <mbuf> even if i append to docdir as image/usr/share/doc/packagename, the README file gets installed in /usr/share/doc; nobody uses /usr/share/doc?
Oct 25 08:05:41 <abraxa_> mbuf: My box does :O
Oct 25 08:06:16 <abraxa_> Just with subdirs, obviously
Oct 25 08:06:31 <mbuf> abraxa_, what is your docdir in setup-env?
Oct 25 08:06:53 <mbuf> abraxa_, i see most applications using /usr/share/<application>
Oct 25 08:06:58 <abraxa_> mbuf: I was speaking about the host sys, not OE
Oct 25 08:07:06 <mbuf> abraxa_, ok
Oct 25 08:07:09 <abraxa_> Ah yeah, that works as well
Oct 25 08:11:50 <mickey-tw> root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg configure
Oct 25 08:11:50 <mickey-tw> Configuring openmoko-mediaplayer2
Oct 25 08:11:50 <mickey-tw> Must set the GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE environment variable
Oct 25 08:11:50 <mickey-tw> postinst script returned status 1
Oct 25 08:11:50 <mickey-tw> ERROR: openmoko-mediaplayer2.postinst returned 1
Oct 25 08:11:52 <mickey-tw> abraxa_: ?
Oct 25 08:14:24 <abraxa_> mickey-tw: Yeah, I noticed that as well. The gconf manual said it would grab the default store if the variable is unspecified but I guess that's not true
Oct 25 08:14:35 <abraxa_> I'll make a patch for the recipe
Oct 25 08:14:39 * XorA just noticed that error as well
Oct 25 08:14:49 <mickey-tw> abraxa_: always remember, we´re not using gconf, we´re using gconf-dbus which might be stripped down
Oct 25 08:15:07 <abraxa_> Oh, okay
Oct 25 08:16:29 * mickey-tw starts to like dbus
Oct 25 08:16:45 <mickey-tw> took a while
Oct 25 08:17:32 <abraxa_> mickey-tw / XorA: Who of you two has time to commit? :)
Oct 25 08:17:44 <XorA> abraxa_: I do
Oct 25 08:18:08 <abraxa_> XorA: Please have a look at http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/mediaplayer_gconf_source.patch and bump the sane srcrev as well :)
Oct 25 08:18:21 <abraxa_> (3263)
Oct 25 08:18:24 <XorA> root@fic-gta01:~$ dmesg
Oct 25 08:18:24 <XorA> -sh: dmesg: Input/output error
Oct 25 08:18:26 <XorA> eh?
Oct 25 08:19:44 <XorA> abraxa_: BTW you dont depend on anything to provide gconftool
Oct 25 08:20:13 <abraxa_> XorA: Do I have to?
Oct 25 08:20:32 <XorA> abraxa_: yes otherwise there are no guarantees gconftool gets on rootfs
Oct 25 08:21:19 <abraxa_> Hmm... I don't know what dependency could fulfill that
Oct 25 08:21:39 <abraxa_> gconf doesn't seem to have its own recipe =x
Oct 25 08:22:02 <XorA> RDEPENDS+${PN} = "gconf" should do it, I will double check
Oct 25 08:22:10 <abraxa_> Thanks a bunch :)
Oct 25 08:22:11 <XorA> RDEPENDS_${PN}
Oct 25 08:30:37 <XorA> Configuring openmoko-mediaplayer2
Oct 25 08:30:37 <XorA> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/home/dp/zaurus/build-neo/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-mediaplayer2-0.1.0+svnr3263-r3/image/etc/gconf/schemas/openmoko-mediaplayer.schemas"
Oct 25 08:30:37 <XorA> Failed to open `/home/dp/zaurus/build-neo/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-mediaplayer2-0.1.0+svnr3263-r3/image/etc/gconf/schemas/openmoko-mediaplayer.schemas': No such file or directory
Oct 25 08:30:37 <XorA> postinst script returned status 1
Oct 25 08:30:38 <XorA> ERROR: openmoko-mediaplayer2.postinst returned 1
Oct 25 08:30:42 <XorA> Collected errors:
Oct 25 08:31:08 * XorA removes the spurious ${D} he should have noted earlier
Oct 25 08:32:34 <XorA> got I hate the linux scheduuler, typing bitbake is equivalent of "STOP MOUSE"
Oct 25 08:32:38 <akrus> hello everyone :3
Oct 25 08:32:47 <akrus> does someone have a video with OpenMoko in action? :)
Oct 25 08:32:48 <abraxa_> I admit I just copied the ${D} part from the openmoko_session recipe
Oct 25 08:33:04 <abraxa_> akrus: Just search "openmoko" and "neo1973" on youtube ;3
Oct 25 08:33:22 <akrus> okay :)
Oct 25 08:33:27 <akrus> how is the development going on? :)
Oct 25 08:33:36 <abraxa_> Slow but steady
Oct 25 08:33:42 <buz> XorA: are you sure that's not just io related? look into ionicing bitbake
Oct 25 08:33:59 <buz> (that helps tremendously for things like strigi or beagle)
Oct 25 08:34:05 <akrus> nice, me & friend of mine really want it to come soon :)
Oct 25 08:34:27 * XorA has no idea what an ionice is
Oct 25 08:34:31 <akrus> WM really sucks :(
Oct 25 08:34:34 <buz> XorA: same as nice, but for IO
Oct 25 08:34:56 <buz> essentially, when you see mouse stopping it's usually because IO is saturated, not cpu
Oct 25 08:35:06 <buz> (which is weird, but that's 25 year old PC architecture for you)
Oct 25 08:35:13 <XorA> its the thing that seems to get worse every linux release, 2.0 used to be usable under heavy load :-)
Oct 25 08:35:34 <buz> freebsd4 put up better with VERY heavy load than linux ever did in my experience
Oct 25 08:35:52 <XorA> buz: not surprised, linux always sucked ass in scheduling
Oct 25 08:36:08 <buz> i'd use freebsd if it wasnt such a pain to deal with ACPI on it
Oct 25 08:36:40 <buz> i've gone so far as to disable swap on linux, once it really starts using swap the machine becomes entirely unusable
Oct 25 08:37:31 <abraxa_> buz: Disable swap? For me, my machine has ground to a halt more than once when it ran out of memory, so I actually had to add more swap to prevent that
Oct 25 08:37:32 <cjb_ie> my sinclair QL put up better with heavy load than linux does :-)
Oct 25 08:37:46 <buz> opposite for me
Oct 25 08:37:57 <buz> to be fair, I have more memory than i need
Oct 25 08:38:15 <buz> problem is that when you run out of memory init may start randomly killing stuff
Oct 25 08:38:54 <Stephmw> shame there isn't a 'kill me first' descriptor bit
Oct 25 08:39:25 <abraxa_> Really? I wish it had here. Major memory leaks in Flash sometimes consume 50%+ of my memory, and yet it wasn't killed - nor anything else
Oct 25 08:39:49 <Stephmw> maybe it's an option?
Oct 25 08:40:07 <Stephmw> on my ubuntu desktop when ram+swap is full, the biggest offenders get killed
Oct 25 08:40:13 <buz> or maybe its stuff crashing when memalloc dont work?
Oct 25 08:40:14 <Stephmw> (by the kernel I believe)
Oct 25 08:40:14 <abraxa_> Hmm
Oct 25 08:40:24 <buz> Stephmw: i thought so too, either kernel or init
Oct 25 08:40:29 <abraxa_> I could only guess on that matter
Oct 25 08:40:47 <buz> of course flash usually crashes before memory is used up so... ;)
Oct 25 08:40:56 <abraxa_> lol
Oct 25 08:41:20 <abraxa_> I love how Flash on Linux is one of the best arguments against closed source
Oct 25 08:42:07 <buz> pretty much true
Oct 25 08:42:10 <buz> tho graphics driver are even better examples
Oct 25 08:42:11 * Stephmw nods
Oct 25 08:42:24 <buz> nvidia is decent enough but ati? useless, really
Oct 25 08:42:26 <Stephmw> my biggest memory hogs are firefox and AutoPano Pro
Oct 25 08:42:27 <abraxa_> Oh gawd... 
Oct 25 08:42:37 <abraxa_> buz: Yeah, don't remind me of my ATI days
Oct 25 08:42:50 <Stephmw> APP can easily take 6GB of memory when rendering
Oct 25 08:43:00 <buz> apparently ati now has AIGLX 
Oct 25 08:43:10 <buz> (i dont really believe it but so they say) 
Oct 25 08:43:38 <gamin> the behaviour of the kernel in an OOM situation following memory over commitment can be altered: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/Documentation/sysctl/vm.txt
Oct 25 08:44:34 <abraxa_> Thanks, gamin :)
Oct 25 08:45:02 <gamin> abraxa_: my pleasure :)
Oct 25 08:45:46 <buz> either i cant read or it doesnt really say how to configure it???
Oct 25 08:46:43 <gamin> echo "2" > /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory
Oct 25 08:46:52 <buz> that says you cant overcommit
Oct 25 08:47:02 <buz> ah well that may help
Oct 25 08:51:14 <abraxa_> zone_reclaim_mode 2 sounds useful, too
Oct 25 08:51:44 <abraxa_> "Zone reclaim will write out dirty pages if a zone fills up and so effectively throttle the process."
Oct 25 08:51:58 <buz> well seeing that i dont use swap ...
Oct 25 08:52:16 <abraxa_> Well okay :)
Oct 25 08:52:20 <buz> (there's another reason why i dont use swap: i dont want passwords written to swap and cryptswap is unbearably slow)
Oct 25 08:52:47 <abraxa_> I guess? I'm not that paranoid (yet)
Oct 25 08:52:48 <abraxa_> ;)
Oct 25 08:53:27 <buz> well this is a notebook
Oct 25 08:54:12 <buz> i've also encrypted /home
Oct 25 08:54:27 <abraxa_> Oh, that does make sense then
Oct 25 08:55:20 <buz> crypthome is kinda stupid if you can fish the passwords from somewhere ;)
Oct 25 08:55:50 <abraxa_> lol yeah
Oct 25 08:56:03 <abraxa_> XorA: Any success?
Oct 25 08:56:41 <buz> but ack, i guess i am paranoid ;)
Oct 25 08:57:42 <CM> buz: You're not, we're all trying to rob you blind :P
Oct 25 08:58:26 <buz> CM: that assumption comes with my studies, anyhow
Oct 25 08:59:10 <CM> abraxa_: The mediaplayer is mentioned, but not screenshot of the gui: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2007/10/openmoko_firstlook?currentPage=all
Oct 25 08:59:22 <CM> *no screenshot
Oct 25 09:00:05 <abraxa_> Nice =3
Oct 25 09:00:49 <buz> does the media player play movies already?
Oct 25 09:01:45 <mickey-tw> *sigh*
Oct 25 09:01:52 <XorA> abraxa_: pushed
Oct 25 09:01:58 <mickey-tw> i wish people would stop calling us the linux i-phone-killer
Oct 25 09:02:04 <mickey-tw> we are not and will never be
Oct 25 09:02:17 <XorA> i-phone is already dead :-)
Oct 25 09:02:44 <abraxa_> buz: Define "play" ;)   - it can load mpegs and show some frames but it's not smooth yet
Oct 25 09:02:50 <abraxa_> XorA: Thanks! :D
Oct 25 09:03:07 <buz> well that's appraoching play ;)
Oct 25 09:03:15 <buz> and might get fixed by more cpu in GTA02 ;)
Oct 25 09:03:20 <XorA> abraxa_: I forget you dont monitor checkin notices on #oe :-)
Oct 25 09:03:26 <abraxa_> buz: And by using mplayer, yup
Oct 25 09:03:39 <abraxa_> XorA: Maybe I should, huh?
Oct 25 09:03:50 <XorA> abraxa_: nah, they are upto 4 hours late most times
Oct 25 09:04:09 <abraxa_> Oh, wow
Oct 25 09:05:36 <abraxa_> "Eager to put the promise of a Linux-powered iPhone killer to the test"... that's... bold, lol
Oct 25 09:06:29 <buz> it may eventually turn out to be an iphone competitor but not until GTA03
Oct 25 09:06:52 <buz> because it needs a complete redesign first ;)
Oct 25 09:07:02 <hrw> and in gta03 time who knows what apple will release
Oct 25 09:07:34 <buz> if it was for me, i'd prefer a TyTN II killer
Oct 25 09:07:41 <abraxa_> Apple does have cash and personnel OpenMoko, Inc. just won't have so it's an unfair battle to begin with
Oct 25 09:08:14 <buz> well i'm still wondering about that meizu m8 thingy
Oct 25 09:08:23 <buz> if that hardware is real, there's some indication that you can do it on a budget
Oct 25 09:08:47 <abraxa_> Highly doubful in my opinion
Oct 25 09:09:40 <buz> slimming down neo would go a long way, and thats definitely doable
Oct 25 09:10:35 <mbuf> if i put the Neo1973 connected to a PC on the LAN; is there anyway we can directly ssh into the Neo1973, rather than having to ssh into the PC first?
Oct 25 09:10:50 <buz> only if you use the pc as router
Oct 25 09:11:26 <mbuf> buz, ahh ok
Oct 25 09:11:46 <buz> actually maybe you can do portforwarding on the pc somehow
Oct 25 09:12:16 <CM> I wonder if this stuff will work on the GTA02: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6660413369.html  (Qtopia warning)
Oct 25 09:13:09 <gamin> mbuf: quick and dirty would be to use ssh for the port forwarding.
Oct 25 09:13:18 <mbuf> gamin, ok
Oct 25 09:14:35 <XorA> mbuf: bridge the neo usb interface to the lan interface
Oct 25 09:14:54 <buz> CM: 1MIO MIPS for that?
Oct 25 09:15:01 <buz> seems rather waste of power
Oct 25 09:15:12 <CM> buz: I was wondering about that too.. wtf are they processing?
Oct 25 09:15:21 <buz> well unless that includes the 3d stuff ;)
Oct 25 09:15:27 <buz> (which i highly doubt)
Oct 25 09:16:07 <buz> but i have to say, the trolls are up to some seriously neat stuff ;)
Oct 25 09:16:17 <CM> Hehe
Oct 25 09:17:27 <gamin> mbuf: ssh -l root -L 7777:192.168.0.202:22
Oct 25 09:18:02 <gamin> then any connect to your desktop machine on port 7777 gets forwarded to the neo
Oct 25 09:19:02 <gamin> thus you need to ssh -p 7777 yourdeskktop_ip
Oct 25 09:20:41 <mbuf> gamin, i see
Oct 25 09:21:20 <mbuf> if i install a package, that a .desktop placed in /usr/share/applications, what else need to be done to list the application in the "All Application" menu list?
Oct 25 09:22:06 <mbuf> *package, a .desktop is placed in
Oct 25 09:40:32 * CM hands XorA a fish
Oct 25 09:41:30 <kristian-m> mbuf that's pretty much it. - you can copy an existing file rename it and change the content
Oct 25 09:41:52 <mbuf> kristian-m, it doesn't show up in the application list
Oct 25 09:42:26 <kristian-m> mbuf you'll have to restart the xserver (today app)
Oct 25 09:42:48 <rwhitby> mbuf: connect the neo to a router on the lan running openwrt with a usb port.
Oct 25 09:43:02 <mbuf> rwhitby, will get one, thanks :)
Oct 25 09:43:05 <mbuf> kristian-m, ok
Oct 25 09:43:08 <rwhitby> (that's what I do)
Oct 25 10:20:15 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3264 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/sms_cb.c: Get a correct message index value on reading a SMS (Erin Yueh)
Oct 25 10:26:29 <PBeck> hi
Oct 25 10:29:53 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3265 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Adding decoder TP-DCS, and it's based on 3GPP TS23.038 Clause 4. (Erin Yueh)
Oct 25 11:23:06 <faern> is there one official mediaplayer for openmoko? or are there a lot of small projects going on?
Oct 25 11:25:41 <mickey-tw> the official mediaplayer is written by abraxa_ 
Oct 25 11:25:47 <mickey-tw> openmoko-mediaplayer
Oct 25 11:25:55 * CM adds a 2
Oct 25 11:26:10 <faern> ok, nice :P will check it out
Oct 25 11:26:29 <CM> faern: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/Screenshot-6.png
Oct 25 11:27:17 <faern> nice. but can't find it on the projects page
Oct 25 11:29:07 <faern> I came up with two feature requests. sorting music by bpm & tone. as some of the new sony ericsons can do. and number two: make dynamic playlists, fetching prefered songs from last.fm (exaile can do this)
Oct 25 11:29:52 <CM> faern: Wow, how does that bpm/tone thing work? You'll have to scan through all mp3's...
Oct 25 11:30:13 <guaqua> bpm/tone seems like a waste of time
Oct 25 11:30:19 <faern> CM, yes the first time it scans the collection
Oct 25 11:30:36 <guaqua> audioscrobbler recommendations would be great though
Oct 25 11:30:47 <faern> so you can select fast & happy music or slow & sad. or fast & sad and so on later
Oct 25 11:31:13 <CM> Yes, audioscrobbler is nice
Oct 25 11:31:15 <bedboi> ahah
Oct 25 11:31:19 <bedboi> i didn't know this
Oct 25 11:31:25 <faern> I have a friend with that function in his phone. it works great
Oct 25 11:31:27 <bedboi> i'm really a bad user
Oct 25 11:41:46 <mbuf> how to restart X server on the Neo1973?
Oct 25 11:42:06 <mickey-tw> something like /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
Oct 25 11:42:25 <mbuf> mickey-tw, thanks
Oct 25 11:43:17 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3266 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/libgsmd.c: adding return rc to lgsm_send_simple (Andrzej Zaborowski)
Oct 25 11:47:32 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3267 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 3 dirs): handle CME and CMS errors (Erin Yueh)
Oct 25 11:49:58 <hrw> mickey-tw: how goes .tw talks?
Oct 25 11:50:06 <mickey-tw> not bad
Oct 25 11:50:13 <mickey-tw> lots is changing
Oct 25 11:50:14 <mickey-tw> some good
Oct 25 11:50:18 <mickey-tw> some well....
Oct 25 11:50:23 <mickey-tw> *shrug* lets see
Oct 25 11:50:36 <mickey-tw> weather is nice and i´m feeling well though
Oct 25 11:50:36 <mickey-tw> :)
Oct 25 11:50:42 <hrw> thats good
Oct 25 11:50:44 <mickey-tw> yep
Oct 25 11:50:45 <jserv--> some terrible :P
Oct 25 11:50:46 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3268 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: 
Oct 25 11:50:46 <CIA-13> openmoko: Patch to enable CPHS ( Common PCN Handset Specification),
Oct 25 11:50:46 <CIA-13> openmoko: and retrieve the voicemail number from SIM card for TI vendor.(Erin Yueh)
Oct 25 11:50:51 * mickey-tw nods to jserv-- 
Oct 25 11:50:57 <hrw> mickey-tw: our part of world is rather not nice now
Oct 25 11:51:02 <CM> Who's the hard working tick?
Oct 25 11:51:09 <mickey-tw> CM: the new gsmd maintainer
Oct 25 11:51:15 <CM> :)
Oct 25 11:51:16 <hrw> ~hail tick
Oct 25 11:51:16 <mickey-tw> we have a strong gsmd team now
Oct 25 11:51:17 * apt bows down to tick and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
Oct 25 11:51:18 <mickey-tw> it´s rocking
Oct 25 11:51:27 <mickey-tw> and most other teams are strong as well
Oct 25 11:51:29 <CM> I can see that, sweet.. :D
Oct 25 11:51:37 * mickey-tw actually starting to enjoy working here
Oct 25 11:51:40 <mickey-tw> need to come back more often
Oct 25 11:52:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 958 has been created by rishi_date(AT)yahoo.com
Oct 25 11:52:02 <cdbot2> * * GSM modem dead
Oct 25 11:52:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=958
Oct 25 11:52:27 <mickey-tw> hrw: cold weather or something different?
Oct 25 11:52:52 <hrw> cold
Oct 25 11:53:10 <mickey-tw> ya, 20something degree here
Oct 25 11:53:16 <mickey-tw> perfect climate for a european
Oct 25 11:54:35 <cjb_ie> mickey-tw: you hiring? ;-)
Oct 25 11:54:49 * ewon is moving to Los Angeles next thursday
Oct 25 11:54:57 <ewon> (if the whole place hasn't burned down before then)
Oct 25 11:55:05 <buz> is the air quality in taiwan as bad as in HK and mainland?
Oct 25 11:55:18 <buz> if so, 2X degree won't help much ;)
Oct 25 11:55:41 <jserv--> buz, it depends on which region in Taiwan you refer to.
Oct 25 11:55:54 <buz> i suppose FIC is in taipeh right?
Oct 25 11:56:01 <jserv--> buz, in east area of Taiwan, the air quality is very nice.
Oct 25 11:56:13 <jserv--> buz, but in Taipei, it is a bit bad.
Oct 25 11:56:34 <jserv--> buz, somehow same as HK.
Oct 25 12:04:36 <mickey-tw> cjb_ie: if you´re from .tw, feel free to apply :) we want to increase the .tw team here
Oct 25 12:04:47 <mickey-tw> s/increase/add people to/
Oct 25 12:04:47 <apt> mickey-tw meant: cjb_ie: if you´re from .tw, feel free to apply :) we want to add people to the .tw team here
Oct 25 12:05:54 <hrw> if you are not from .tw then... find job in other company?
Oct 25 12:06:47 <ewon> might look up openmoko in a few years if I'm done with the video games industry
Oct 25 12:06:51 <mickey-tw> yeah. there´s plenty of positions for linux engineers atm. isn´t it?
Oct 25 12:07:00 <CM> Not many from .tw in here ever (except maybe a dev or two(Hi jserv--))
Oct 25 12:07:16 <mickey-tw> CM: we´re trying to improve that, however IRC is also a distraction as you might know...
Oct 25 12:07:34 <CM> mickey-tw: Tell me about it, I'm the most distracted guy here.. :P
Oct 25 12:08:01 <CM> Being bored out of my mind at work and about to change doesn't help...
Oct 25 12:16:27 <cjb_ie> mickey-tw: i wouldn't mind moving somewhere random like tw :)
Oct 25 12:18:16 <cjb_ie> currently in ie; the tw weather sounds nicer
Oct 25 12:24:24 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: your random location is: 94.369E, 52.391N
Oct 25 12:25:47 <gi-el> that sounds cold
Oct 25 12:25:51 <xzcvczx> will libgsmd provide a function to disable/enable the radio in the device?
Oct 25 12:26:08 <xzcvczx> aka is it its job to provide something like that
Oct 25 12:26:11 <_diego_> seems so
Oct 25 12:26:35 <_diego_> i know that i can power off gsm from libgsm-tool
Oct 25 12:26:49 <SpeedEvil> Gismo_C: Southern russia, 100 miles from the mogolian border.
Oct 25 12:26:54 <SpeedEvil> gi-el: even
Oct 25 12:26:59 * xzcvczx is an idiot and forgot about that
Oct 25 12:27:03 <SpeedEvil> But the random never lies!
Oct 25 12:27:03 <xzcvczx> thanks _diego_ 
Oct 25 12:27:47 <xzcvczx> 19/85 for getting xorg :(
Oct 25 12:27:59 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil: ah, but that's not random and like tw :p
Oct 25 12:30:49 <gi-el> hmz
Oct 25 12:31:16 <gi-el> the qtopia-core_4.3.1 bb file installs libs and incs in a weird location in staging without saying so in its pkgconfig files
Oct 25 13:32:10 <mbuf> what will be the SRC_URI for cvs repository at projects.openmoko.org?
Oct 25 13:36:07 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3269 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/detail-area.c): 
Oct 25 13:36:07 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/detail-area.c: (detail_area_update_info): Check for NULL before
Oct 25 13:36:07 <CIA-13> openmoko:  unreferencing the pixbuf
Oct 25 13:54:18 <StylusEater_Work> does it really take 12 hours to charge the battery?
Oct 25 13:54:35 <Mek> if you only charge it with 100mA it probably will...
Oct 25 13:55:18 <StylusEater_Work> I left my neo "sleeping" last night and now it won't wake up... so I think the battery is dead.  I've had it plugged into my comp for about an hour 
Oct 25 13:55:22 <StylusEater_Work> it still won't turn on
Oct 25 13:55:32 <CM> StylusEater_Work: You have to take the battery out first
Oct 25 13:55:34 <StylusEater_Work> there is power to that specific port 
Oct 25 13:55:38 <StylusEater_Work> CM: I did
Oct 25 13:55:42 <StylusEater_Work> CM: and replaced it
Oct 25 13:55:48 <CM> StylusEater_Work: Oh.. For how long?
Oct 25 13:55:57 <StylusEater_Work> I'd say three seconds
Oct 25 13:55:58 <CM> Takes about a minute at least, some say more
Oct 25 13:56:04 <StylusEater_Work> really?
Oct 25 13:56:07 <StylusEater_Work> hrm. alrighty
Oct 25 13:56:25 <CM> Anyway, I did the same before, leaving it sleepign during night
Oct 25 13:56:52 <CM> Had to take the battery out for a minute, but then it only took abou 1h of charging to get it into uboot at least
Oct 25 13:57:01 <StylusEater_Work> CM: tasty. :-)
Oct 25 13:57:06 <CM> And then it's quick with 500mW charging :)
Oct 25 13:57:25 <StylusEater_Work> has any made or found a portable charger?
Oct 25 13:58:05 <CM> StylusEater_Work: No that I know of, and Harald posted a bug yesterday with the know issue that the Neo only charges 100mw from dumb usb-wall chargers
Oct 25 13:58:25 <CM> I asked the same a long time ago about an usb car charger
Oct 25 13:58:29 <StylusEater_Work> CM: hrm
Oct 25 13:58:44 <StylusEater_Work> brb. coffee.
Oct 25 14:12:03 <StylusEater_Work> CM: I'm not an EE guy, but I bet it'd be easy enough to fab some portable do it yourself charger.
Oct 25 14:14:13 <Mek> StylusEater_Work: the problem right now is that the NEO won't charge at full speed (500mA) unless the charger tells the neo it can provide that (i.e. is a full usb host thing)
Oct 25 14:15:04 <StylusEater_Work> hrm
Oct 25 14:16:14 <CM> To be USB compliant I think you have to be polite and ask for 500mW, but for a dumb chargers that doesn't answer it should just pull up to that anyway..
Oct 25 14:16:30 <CM> I mean unless it's a lapto that explicitly says no
Oct 25 14:16:36 <CM> p
Oct 25 14:17:20 <zash> if the charger just pushes 500mW?
Oct 25 14:17:47 * CM is no EE either :)
Oct 25 14:17:52 <zash> or 1W
Oct 25 14:18:02 <zash> OR 1TW!!!
Oct 25 14:18:11 * CM pokes SpeedEvil 
Oct 25 14:19:11 <zash> is that programmable?
Oct 25 14:19:21 <zash> pm-stuff
Oct 25 14:19:40 <CM> I don't really know. 100mW and 500mW is, but I don't know how it works
Oct 25 14:19:53 <CM> u-boot sets it
Oct 25 14:20:02 <CM> And there is a Fast Charge option
Oct 25 14:20:55 <zash> afaik usb has a 'can i have 100mW more plz' command of some sort
Oct 25 14:21:53 <abraxa_> Random note: mA, not mW ;)
Oct 25 14:22:08 <CM> abraxa_: Yes, thanks.. 
Oct 25 14:22:19 * zash was just writing what everyone else wrote
Oct 25 14:22:19 <CM> :)
Oct 25 14:22:27 * CM too
Oct 25 14:22:33 * Mek wrote mA! :P
Oct 25 14:23:47 <CM> Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Power
Oct 25 14:23:49 <abraxa_> I wonder if it really would be a problem to draw 500mA for two seconds and see if the current can be delivered or not
Oct 25 14:24:13 <abraxa_> If it can then I'd guess that it's safe to assume that the host can deliver it, just doesn't speak USB
Oct 25 14:24:32 <abraxa_> If it can't... go down to 100mA
Oct 25 14:25:12 <Mek> you might blow some fuse? :P
Oct 25 14:25:18 <Xx13> abraxa: are you sure that won't cook the supplier if it can't deliver the 500?
Oct 25 14:25:22 <CM> I don't know what the spec says if the host doesn't answer the "can I have 100mA more?" question
Oct 25 14:26:01 <abraxa_> Xx13: Hence the two seconds
Oct 25 14:26:10 <CM> Btw, interesting for phone companies: As of June 14, 2007, all new mobile phones applying for license in China are required to adopt the USB port as a power port.
Oct 25 14:26:17 <StylusEater_Work> on my box it's showing MxPwr=500mA and Manufacturer = Linux 2.6.22.5-moko11/s3c2410_udc
Oct 25 14:26:32 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: consider that the user has a flash card and a keyboard plugged in to an unpowered hub, tehn the neo.
Oct 25 14:26:58 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: plug in the neo and try to draw 500mA, and you cut power to the flash card, possibly corrupting it, certainly 
Oct 25 14:27:06 <Mek> and an usb=powered hard-dirve :)
Oct 25 14:27:16 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: stopping whatever applications are using it.
Oct 25 14:27:28 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Yeah, I guess a brownout would be bad for the card
Oct 25 14:27:46 <Xx13> usb hub should be able to negotiate power requirements
Oct 25 14:28:18 <StylusEater_Work> http://rafb.net/p/AaosAG89.html
Oct 25 14:28:21 <CM> SpeedEvil: But how does other stuff like mp3 players handle dumb chargers then?
Oct 25 14:28:45 <zash> if the host wont answer on 'can i has more pwr plz?' it could try to draw 500mA and see what happens?
Oct 25 14:28:58 <abraxa_> zash: That's what I said ;)
Oct 25 14:29:05 <mbuf> how do i make a release in GForge?
Oct 25 14:30:04 <zash> abraxa_: aha!
Oct 25 14:31:14 <SpeedEvil> The right way unfortunately to do this is complex.
Oct 25 14:31:32 <SpeedEvil> Firstly, you check for a USB bus in suspend, and send a wakeup signal.
Oct 25 14:32:09 <SpeedEvil> Then you ask the host if you can have 500mA, and if it approves, draw that.
Oct 25 14:32:17 <SpeedEvil> If it does not, you only draw 100mA.
Oct 25 14:32:30 <StylusEater_Work> SpeedEvil: could we document that on the wiki?
Oct 25 14:32:39 <SpeedEvil> If however the host is not speaking USB protocol at all, or responding to standby wake requests, you start drawing power.
Oct 25 14:32:51 <StylusEater_Work> it'd be nice to hammer out a rough algorithm for coding
Oct 25 14:32:53 <SpeedEvil> (because it's not a functioning USB bus)
Oct 25 14:32:54 <CM> At 100mA?
Oct 25 14:33:06 <SpeedEvil> StylusEater_Work: much of this must be implemented in u-boot
Oct 25 14:33:29 <StylusEater_Work> ok. 
Oct 25 14:33:32 <SpeedEvil> StylusEater_Work: as booting all the way to linux takes a fair amount of power.
Oct 25 14:33:49 <SpeedEvil> And you may be working with a really low battery.
Oct 25 14:34:18 <StylusEater_Work> yes it does.
Oct 25 14:34:38 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3270 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/appmanager-window.c src/tool-box.c): 
Oct 25 14:34:38 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/appmanager-window.c: (main): Add notebook for list/details
Oct 25 14:34:38 <CIA-13> openmoko: seperation as per OpenMoko 2007.2 style
Oct 25 14:34:38 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/tool-box.c: (tool_box_new): Fix toolbar
Oct 25 14:35:08 <SpeedEvil> Somewhere this is documented on teh wiki.
Oct 25 14:35:16 <SpeedEvil> I'll have a look for it later.
Oct 25 14:35:16 <abraxa_> Hiho thos :)
Oct 25 14:35:22 <thos> hey abraxa_
Oct 25 14:49:49 <gamin> o we have the gnome canvas as 
Oct 25 14:50:00 <gamin> oops
Oct 25 14:50:13 <gamin> do we have the gnome canvas as part of the framework
Oct 25 14:50:53 <gamin> or is only GdkDrawable available?
Oct 25 14:51:16 <hrw> gamin: gnome libs are evil
Oct 25 14:51:23 <gamin> :)
Oct 25 14:52:52 * xzcvczx wishes xorg would hurry up and compile so he can get programming again
Oct 25 14:55:51 <CM> xzcvczx: How does that prevent you from programming?
Oct 25 14:56:20 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3271 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/detail-area.c src/navigation-area.c): 
Oct 25 14:56:20 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/detail-area.c: (detail_area_new):
Oct 25 14:56:20 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/navigation-area.c: (navigation_area_new):
Oct 25 14:56:20 <CIA-13> openmoko: Remove horizontal scaling and improve package list clarity
Oct 25 14:57:16 <thos> gamin: use cairo on a GtkDrawingArea?
Oct 25 15:05:44 <xzcvczx> CM: past the text based programming part so i need gtk for testing
Oct 25 15:29:29 <faern> hmm. my make openmoko-devel-image finally completed.. but how do I run the emulator?
Oct 25 15:30:39 <Mek> 'make flash-qemu-local' to flash it to qemu and 'make run-qemu' to run it afair
Oct 25 15:32:28 <faern> aa. thank you
Oct 25 15:42:15 <faern> my mkdosfs resides in /usr/sbin. not /sbin. any way I can change the config for the makefile without it getting overwritten on the next update?
Oct 25 15:46:48 <xzcvczx> faern: are you talking about on your host system?
Oct 25 15:46:54 <faern> yes
Oct 25 15:47:12 <xzcvczx> if you are feeling lazy just symlink /usr/sbin/mkdosfs to /sbin/mkdosfs
Oct 25 15:47:29 <faern> ok.. guess that will do for now
Oct 25 15:47:53 <xzcvczx> what distro do you use?
Oct 25 15:48:00 <faern> gentoo
Oct 25 15:49:16 <xzcvczx> well /usr/sbin is really a more logical place to put it than /sbin
Oct 25 15:50:03 <StylusEater_Work> then again... it is gentoo... ;-)
Oct 25 15:50:10 <faern> :)
Oct 25 15:51:00 <xzcvczx> StylusEater_Work: what do you use?
Oct 25 15:51:08 <StylusEater_Work> debian
Oct 25 15:51:31 <xzcvczx> no comment then
Oct 25 15:51:42 <xzcvczx> :P
Oct 25 15:51:48 <anrp> :o
Oct 25 15:52:01 * xzcvczx grabs the fire extinguisher
Oct 25 15:52:12 <StylusEater_Work> haha
Oct 25 15:52:42 <StylusEater_Work> meh. I use rhel and fedora primarily... but at home I'm moving to debian slowly
Oct 25 15:52:55 <StylusEater_Work> maybe lfs in the future...but it's a lot of work and consumes time I don't have
Oct 25 15:53:15 <faern> /bin/sh: line 1: arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm: No such file or directory < how come it didnt create that for me
Oct 25 15:53:39 <xzcvczx> pingpignpignpignpignpignpingpingpingpingping
Oct 25 15:54:06 <anrp> misuzu ~ # blockdev --getsize /dev/raid_vg/home 
Oct 25 15:54:06 <anrp> -1781555200
Oct 25 15:54:09 <anrp> ... uh D:
Oct 25 15:54:26 <DukeOfURL> good morning
Oct 25 15:55:03 <DukeOfURL> I've been gone for a week.  Any news?  GPS?  GSM firmware?
Oct 25 15:55:20 <swel024> gah damn wireless
Oct 25 15:55:52 <hrw> anrp: ops?
Oct 25 15:56:00 <anrp> its too large, i guess ~_~
Oct 25 15:56:02 <anrp> but still
Oct 25 15:58:06 * anrp would prefer ERANGE instead of a negative number...
Oct 25 16:01:46 <anrp> DukeOfURL: i believe it is a no
Oct 25 16:01:51 <xzcvczx> ;;;;;;;kjknkjn
Oct 25 16:01:52 <anrp> for all of the above
Oct 25 16:02:08 <torpor> yo
Oct 25 16:04:32 <xzcvczx> wow my wireless is crap at the moment
Oct 25 16:04:40 <anrp> wireless can be that way
Oct 25 16:04:55 <faern> now I have this error while running make flash-qemu-local
Oct 25 16:04:56 <faern> http://pastebin.ca/749276
Oct 25 16:05:27 <faern> did I forgot something? I ran make build-qemu before. but thats all
Oct 25 16:06:17 <faern> I didn't find any doc on how to run qemu.. it all stopped after make openmoko-devel-image
Oct 25 16:06:18 <xzcvczx> anrp: problem with concrete buildings as well
Oct 25 16:20:16 <faern> on talk in the wiki they say installing lynx should solve the problem. but I have lynx installed
Oct 25 16:20:50 <faern> maybe it is also using an absolute path. and my install might have it somewhere else
Oct 25 16:33:24 <dape> ei
Oct 25 16:33:41 <dape> does anyone know why there's no /usr/share/locale on the device image?
Oct 25 16:33:55 <dape> I was just wondering where should I find translations
Oct 25 16:43:05 <xzcvczx> anyone here use ubuntu?
Oct 25 16:44:58 <ewon> yes
Oct 25 16:45:31 <xzcvczx> ewon: what do they use for kernel configuration? do they just have 90% of the stuff as modules or ?
Oct 25 16:46:26 <ewon> yeah, afaik it's mostly modules
Oct 25 16:46:31 <xzcvczx> oh ok
Oct 25 16:46:33 <ewon> not a giant-monolithic kernel
Oct 25 16:49:17 <berkus> hmmm
Oct 25 16:49:32 <berkus> i have problems talking to my gsmd
Oct 25 16:51:30 <berkus> here's the script i use to manually start gsmd here: http://rafb.net/p/8gWTtf29.html
Oct 25 16:51:45 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3272 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-battery.c): 
Oct 25 16:51:45 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: (timeout),
Oct 25 16:51:45 <CIA-13> openmoko: (mb_panel_applet_create): Only update the display if the battery status
Oct 25 16:51:45 <CIA-13> openmoko:  has changed
Oct 25 16:51:57 <thos> how to waste your battery life #1: get the battery applet to refresh even if the status hasn't changed
Oct 25 16:52:17 <Vegar> hehe
Oct 25 16:52:18 <thos> #2 is get it to do this using a timer at millisecond granularity
Oct 25 16:52:32 <Vegar> thos: does intel's powertop run on the neo?
Oct 25 16:52:37 <thos> unfortunately can't fix #2 until we use glib >= 2.14
Oct 25 16:53:07 <thos> Vegar: given that the neo uses an arm processor, I very much doubt it ;-)
Oct 25 16:54:10 <Vegar> "PowerTOP combines various sources of information from the kernel into one convenient screen so that you can see how well your system is doing, and which components are the biggest problem."
Oct 25 16:54:25 <Vegar> doesn't appear to have any hardware requirements
Oct 25 16:54:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03chris * r3273 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Oct 25 16:54:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
Oct 25 16:54:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_dial_button_clicked_cb),
Oct 25 16:54:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: (bg_child_expose_cb), (set_time_idle), (today_create_home_page),
Oct 25 16:54:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: (location_notify), (main):
Oct 25 16:54:37 <berkus> problem with gsmd is: first command goes thru and comes back with a response. seonds one never comes back
Oct 25 16:54:38 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_update_messages),
Oct 25 16:54:42 <CIA-13> openmoko: (header_clicked_cb), (missed_calls_button_press_cb),
Oct 25 16:54:48 <thos> Vegar: rob tells me it will
Oct 25 16:55:05 <ckuethe> Vegar: it relies on acpi
Oct 25 16:55:08 <thos> Vegar: "powertop is just a frontend to /proc/timer_stats with some intel specific bling."
Oct 25 16:55:11 <Vegar> ah
Oct 25 16:55:17 <Vegar> yes, true
Oct 25 16:55:23 <Vegar> forgot about that part
Oct 25 16:56:50 <robster> Vegar: oh, thos quoted me anyway.
Oct 25 16:57:55 <Vegar> thos: the battery applet still polls a lot, doesn't it?
Oct 25 16:58:34 <thos> Vegar: every ten seconds
Oct 25 16:58:40 <berkus> here's the gsmd log: http://rafb.net/p/s3w94y60.html
Oct 25 16:58:42 <Vegar> ok, not too bad
Oct 25 16:58:43 <berkus> anyone got an idea?
Oct 25 16:59:16 <thos> berkus: have you upgraded?
Oct 25 17:00:02 <berkus> depends on how recent was the image i put on. this is one of latest (23 oct) celtune builds
Oct 25 17:02:20 <abraxa_> Anyone here with GConf experience?
Oct 25 17:05:18 <thos> abraxa_: what's the question?
Oct 25 17:06:54 <abraxa_> thos: Situation is this: I add the app's directory to the listener using gconf_client_add_dir(), then add notifications for each key. It all works perfectly when using the app to alter the values - the UI gets notified of the changes.
Oct 25 17:07:35 <abraxa_> However when I open a console over SSH and run "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /apps/openmoko/mediaplayer/shuffle false" I can see that the key gets updated - but the application does not get notified of the change
Oct 25 17:07:54 <abraxa_> ...and I just can't figure out why.
Oct 25 17:08:30 <thos> abraxa_: ah I've run into that too
Oct 25 17:08:47 <thos> abraxa_: if you do it from within the same dbus-launch as the application it seems to work fine
Oct 25 17:10:07 <abraxa_> thos: I'm glad it's not an issue with my app then :)
Oct 25 17:10:50 <abraxa_> Thanks for helping, Thomas
Oct 25 17:11:12 <thos> abraxa_: no problem
Oct 25 17:11:56 <xzcvczx_> oo leopard tomorrow
Oct 25 17:14:17 <ScaredyCat> Raaarr!!!
Oct 25 17:19:48 <BlueRaid> cu
Oct 25 17:21:25 <xzcvczx_> acutally leopard today :S
Oct 25 17:36:57 <PBeck_> hi
Oct 25 17:43:47 <berkus> hmm, what's the easiest way to setup xcompiling toolchain for openmoko?
Oct 25 17:45:45 <berkus> is this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build the correct recipe?
Oct 25 17:46:44 <xzcvczx> berkus: probably mokomakefile
Oct 25 17:46:55 <xzcvczx> then you can just use the gcc that that generates for ti
Oct 25 17:46:56 <xzcvczx> it
Oct 25 17:48:02 <berkus> ok, reading it
Oct 25 17:48:19 <berkus> a few days to build system does sound like ole-good-gentoo-days
Oct 25 17:54:11 <torpor> berkus: see also http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt
Oct 25 17:56:42 <abraxa_> thos: Do you happen to know if I can just launch the media player in the .desktop file or whether I need to do a "dbus-launch openmoko-mediaplyer" in there as well?
Oct 25 17:57:17 <mickey-tw> you need the latter
Oct 25 17:57:23 <mickey-tw> you can do
Oct 25 17:57:28 <mickey-tw> nah
Oct 25 17:57:29 <mickey-tw> sorry
Oct 25 17:57:34 <mickey-tw> no need to do it in the .desktop file
Oct 25 17:57:42 <mickey-tw> when you launch from within X, it`s already set up
Oct 25 17:57:54 <mickey-tw> we might set export `dbus-launch` in the profile soon 
Oct 25 17:57:58 <mickey-tw> so you can just forget about it
Oct 25 17:58:36 <pvanhoof> still in Taiwan mickey-tw?
Oct 25 17:58:44 <abraxa_> mickey-tw: Ah okay, thanks
Oct 25 17:58:46 <mickey-tw> pvanhoof: yes
Oct 25 17:58:54 <pvanhoof> Still good weather? :)
Oct 25 17:58:55 <mickey-tw> pvanhoof: leaving on 30th
Oct 25 17:59:06 <mickey-tw> pvanhoof: humidity has raised a bit, but still ok
Oct 25 17:59:10 <pvanhoof> ok
Oct 25 17:59:29 <mickey-tw> i have heard you have been contacted by our Engineering Manager?
Oct 25 17:59:36 <pvanhoof> Not yet no
Oct 25 17:59:39 <mickey-tw> oh
Oct 25 17:59:41 <mickey-tw> strange
Oct 25 18:00:07 <pvanhoof> I'd say, ping him about it :)
Oct 25 18:00:15 <torpor> what're you guys working on together?
Oct 25 18:00:17 <mickey-tw> i´ll do it
Oct 25 18:00:20 <pvanhoof> If he needs an email address, me@pvanhoof.be
Oct 25 18:00:27 <pvanhoof> +32437888449
Oct 25 18:00:29 <mickey-tw> executive summary: i'm no longer in charge of the platform as a whole
Oct 25 18:00:36 <mickey-tw> so you will need to deal with him
Oct 25 18:00:39 <pvanhoof> okay
Oct 25 18:00:49 <pvanhoof> Right
Oct 25 18:01:38 <pvanhoof> torpor, ICBM technology (hi there Echelon user!)
Oct 25 18:01:50 <torpor> sweet!  i want one.  where can i order it?
Oct 25 18:02:21 <pvanhoof> If you would have a bank account that could afford it, you would have known already torpor :)
Oct 25 18:02:40 <pvanhoof> Don't call us, we'll call you !
Oct 25 18:02:43 <torpor> bank accounts?  who uses those any more, in the ICBM market
Oct 25 18:03:03 <torpor> i've got a warehouse full of hookers and blow i could let you into for a weekend or two .. 
Oct 25 18:03:09 <pvanhoof> True, with dollars being so valuable on the market :), must probably either trade in oil or in gold
Oct 25 18:03:26 <pvanhoof> s/must/most
Oct 25 18:03:31 <torpor> seriously though, platform?  engineer?  sounds interesting .. do tell!
Oct 25 18:04:06 <pvanhoof> We'll tell, soon :)
Oct 25 18:04:18 <torpor> you guys making openmoko-based products?
Oct 25 18:04:25 <torpor> coz i wanna do that too, and not just cell phones.
Oct 25 18:04:55 <mickey-tw> really late here... /me going to bed
Oct 25 18:04:57 <mickey-tw> g'night
Oct 25 18:05:02 <pvanhoof> Well, I suggest starting a project that you think the phone could use, torpor 
Oct 25 18:05:09 <torpor> pvanhoof: i have.
Oct 25 18:05:14 <torpor> i'm working on music software for the neo
Oct 25 18:05:15 <pvanhoof> and then convince somebody at openmoko that they need it badly
Oct 25 18:05:34 <torpor> tonight i'm adding a bluetooth panel to settingsGUI so i can use wireles bluetooth devices.. 
Oct 25 18:05:51 <pvanhoof> and then tell em that you can make it integrate nicely
Oct 25 18:07:27 <pvanhoof> brb
Oct 25 18:07:29 <faern> in what stage of the build is it supposed to create "moko/build/qemu/uImage-2.6.*-fic-gta01.bin"? because I don't have one, and that's what screwing up my flashing
Oct 25 18:07:43 <xzcvczx> im working on something that i have never seen on a cellphone before... aka actually being original :P
Oct 25 18:07:52 <torpor> xzcvczx: cool.
Oct 25 18:12:05 <xzcvczx> what do people use for a c ide in linux?
Oct 25 18:12:19 <torpor> cscope
Oct 25 18:12:21 <torpor> +vim
Oct 25 18:12:48 <drath> he asked for a ide :P
Oct 25 18:12:53 <torpor> cscope is an ide
Oct 25 18:13:17 <drath> "Introduction	 Cscope is a developer's tool for browsing source code.
Oct 25 18:13:39 <torpor> thats what you do with IDE's.
Oct 25 18:13:41 <drath> xzcvczx: Eclispe, KDevelop, Anjuta, just to name a few
Oct 25 18:14:11 <xzcvczx> drath: how good is eclipse for c? i have only ever used it for java
Oct 25 18:14:26 <drath> xzcvczx: good enough, and it's getting better with every release
Oct 25 18:14:39 <xzcvczx> i only really started c programming a couple of weeks ago
Oct 25 18:14:41 <drath> xzcvczx: Eclipse Europa and CDT 4.0 is quite nice to work with
Oct 25 18:14:44 <faern> xzcvczx, I have used it for c++ and I really like it
Oct 25 18:14:50 <xzcvczx> ok
Oct 25 18:14:56 <xzcvczx> thanks
Oct 25 18:15:05 * xzcvczx kicks his computer.... hurry up xorg
Oct 25 18:19:06 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03abraxa * r3274 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 
Oct 25 18:19:06 <CIA-13> openmoko: Substitute sqrt(a^2+b^2) by appromixation to speed up gesture recognition
Oct 25 18:19:06 <CIA-13> openmoko: Add GConf support, part III (mission complete)
Oct 25 18:19:06 <CIA-13> openmoko: Update GConf schema
Oct 25 18:19:06 <CIA-13> openmoko: Use omp prefix for global variables in main_page.c as well
Oct 25 18:22:22 <berkus> where is u-boot taken from, SF.net cvs?
Oct 25 18:23:16 <berkus> ahh.. git
Oct 25 18:24:26 <faern> This is getting very annoying. I get no error messages whatsoever up until "make flash-qemu-local" that complains about "openmoko/flash.sh: line 27: cd: ../tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01: No such file or directory"
Oct 25 18:24:41 <faern> in what step of the build is that created?
Oct 25 18:25:08 <faern> I get no errors nor that dir. is there any command I missed?
Oct 25 18:28:37 <berkus> mkdir -p maybe?
Oct 25 18:30:42 <faern> but shouldnt there be content? :P
Oct 25 18:31:03 <faern> although I have neo1973 in that dir
Oct 25 18:31:43 <faern> I changed flash.sh to point to that instead.. now the flashing continues. lets see if it completes
Oct 25 18:37:03 <cjb_ie> stiff competition for openmoko/neo1973: http://url.ie/6dm
Oct 25 18:38:51 <faern> Yay! now I have a qemu session up. but whats the equivalent for aux & power on the keyboard
Oct 25 18:39:16 <xzcvczx> space and something
Oct 25 18:39:26 <xzcvczx> cnat remember the other one enter maybe
Oct 25 18:39:27 <roh> return
Oct 25 18:40:06 <faern> nah. no go here
Oct 25 18:40:36 <faern> cjb_ie, haha. good one :P
Oct 25 18:47:11 <xzcvczx> has anyone installed mysql or another db server on their moko?
Oct 25 18:48:46 <torpor> tinysql
Oct 25 18:50:03 <xzcvczx> woot finally got xorg installing
Oct 25 18:51:11 <xzcvczx> torpor: you know any good tutorials for c+sql? as i was just going to use textfiles but a db is probably a much better idea
Oct 25 18:51:33 <torpor> no on the tutorials, but i'm sure they're out there.
Oct 25 18:51:46 <xzcvczx> ok thanks
Oct 25 18:51:50 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03jserv * r3275 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/Makefile.am: 
Oct 25 18:51:50 <CIA-13> openmoko: formal version generation for gsmd-version.h considering release
Oct 25 18:51:50 <CIA-13> openmoko: version or not (svn repository).
Oct 25 18:52:18 <torpor> just get the source package and scope it out .. pretty easy really.
Oct 25 18:59:57 <xzcvczx> finally in x
Oct 25 19:00:21 <gamin> xzcvczx: you may have a look into sqlite
Oct 25 19:04:29 <xzcvczx> gamin: cheers will look at that too
Oct 25 19:08:12 <gamin> xzcvczx: they where Google O'reilly open source award winner 2005. Imho the best small sql engine around. C API and good documentation. The GPE apps use it as backend and thus already in the feeds. Many others use it too, i.e. nokia's maemo-mapper. So prevents you from adding another db-engine to the tight space on the flash
Oct 25 19:08:42 <xzcvczx> kewl
Oct 25 19:08:58 <xzcvczx> as soon as i get a browser i can have a look at it
Oct 25 19:09:06 <gamin> oh and php uses it as its standard db since 5.0
Oct 25 19:10:26 <gamin> unfortunately php uses still sqlite 2, whcih is not compatible with sqlite 3. 
Oct 25 19:10:31 <dsilva> is buildhost.openmoko.org down?
Oct 25 19:10:54 <gamin> php actually runs quite nicely on the neo :-p
Oct 25 19:12:20 <Mek> hmm... is buildhost.openmoko.org supposed to be not reachable?
Oct 25 19:12:46 <dsilva> Mek: i can't get to it either
Oct 25 19:12:51 <dsilva> Mek: since about 10 minutes ago
Oct 25 19:13:17 <enjahova> that happened first time i tried to build
Oct 25 19:13:19 <enjahova> scared shit out of me
Oct 25 19:13:20 <Mek> ah... when I try to ping it I get a destination host unreachable reply from some german .hetzner.de host...
Oct 25 19:13:41 <cjb_ie> it might be down for a ram upgrade
Oct 25 19:13:56 <gamin> question: mickeyl said he is no longer in charge of the platform as a whole. is that good (i.e. he has more time for development) or is that bad, i.e. less community, more management?
Oct 25 19:14:00 <cjb_ie> hetzner were meant to be doing that at some point, iirc
Oct 25 19:14:17 <guaqua> gamin: i'm thinking more development
Oct 25 19:14:22 <PBeck> re
Oct 25 19:14:30 <xzcvczx> cjb_ie: lol i was about to say thats a rather exact explanantion
Oct 25 19:14:38 <xzcvczx> and i cant spell
Oct 25 19:14:53 <guaqua> there's probably a reason mickey's not in charge anymore, and i think it's got to do with the maturity of the platform
Oct 25 19:15:04 <guaqua> i.e. the general structure is there now
Oct 25 19:15:49 <abraxa_> Mek: Hetzner is a German host, nothing special about that domain
Oct 25 19:17:40 <gamin> abraxa_: a bit further above you had a question of d-bus over ssh: that is known to be broken and is intentionally so unless someone fixes ssh to forward th d-bus session. Otherwise the d-bus on your desktop is used and not the one on your neo
Oct 25 19:19:18 <gamin> abraxa_: you need to export the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS in order to make remote dbus work.
Oct 25 19:19:43 <abraxa_> gamin: Ahh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up :)
Oct 25 19:20:23 <abraxa_> I'm just going to be naive then and assume that GConf will work as intended as long as all applications involved run on the Neo itself
Oct 25 19:21:49 <gamin> From Havoc's Blog (about d-bus): Alternative transports and X forwarding.  DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS should be ssh-forwarded and tunneled, just like DISPLAY. Until this is done, remote applications won't really work right. And the sooner this is done, the sooner a new-enough version of ssh will get rolled out to distributions.
Oct 25 19:22:22 <gamin> there was a long discussion on the freedesktop ML
Oct 25 19:24:12 <abraxa_> Long discussion about what? Whether this is the proper way to do things or not?
Oct 25 19:24:32 <gamin> abraxa_: yes, about d-bus and remote sessions.
Oct 25 19:24:42 <abraxa_> Ahh okay
Oct 25 19:26:22 <berkus> anybody got a guide for properly building u-boot handy?
Oct 25 19:26:23 <gamin> but to get it work you really only need to run in a terminal on the neo: #env| grep DBUS_SESSION > /tmp/dbussession     and then set the value in the remote shell. 
Oct 25 19:27:16 <gamin> that gets you rid of all messages like: "(openmoko-dates:5496): libecal-WARNING **: Cannot activate ECal: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session"
Oct 25 19:28:27 <gamin> quite handy for all the pim apps to have them displayed on your desktop...
Oct 25 19:37:15 <dsilva> how do you get the current CPU clock speed?
Oct 25 19:37:48 <dsilva> linux-x86 has /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/, but I don't see that in openmoko
Oct 25 19:40:44 <morricone> dsilva,  /proc/cpuinfo
Oct 25 19:41:10 <dsilva> morricone: that doesn't seem to show the current cpu frequency
Oct 25 19:42:02 <berkus> and again, not expecting any answers at all: what am I missing here? http://rafb.net/p/qvXOTZ94.html
Oct 25 19:42:53 <CM> torpor: Did you get what pvanhoof will be working on? :)
Oct 25 19:43:34 <CM> berkus: No idea, never seen that before. Tried asking in #oe?
Oct 25 19:44:57 <berkus> CM: hmm, not yet. will try.
Oct 25 19:51:31 <berkus> #oe is helpfully silent
Oct 25 19:51:43 <CM> Yes, unfortunately
Oct 25 19:52:22 <CM> I sometimes get the feeling that oe isn't so newbie-friendly..
Oct 25 19:52:46 * CM hides so no elitist will lart him :P
Oct 25 19:53:31 <woglinde> cm newbie/user newbie/developer?
Oct 25 19:53:44 <woglinde> newbie/user should never see oe only .ipk
Oct 25 19:53:56 <CM> woglinde: I was thinking the newbie/user
Oct 25 19:54:22 <CM> Because setting up oe and using bitbake is a bit intimidating at first
Oct 25 19:54:48 <woglinde> newbie/developer will be/is solved mit meta-toolchain.bb
Oct 25 19:54:55 <Mek> btw, is it possible to see how much the battery in my neo is charged while it is charging?
Oct 25 19:54:58 <CM> There is some good install instructions in the wiki, but sometimes it's not enough
Oct 25 19:55:14 <woglinde> which wiki?
Oct 25 19:55:17 <woglinde> oe or om?
Oct 25 19:55:18 <CM> woglinde: Yes, I noticed that meta-toolchaing thing, sounds really good
Oct 25 19:55:20 <CM> the oe
Oct 25 19:55:27 <u_l-lap> apt: lart CM
Oct 25 19:55:29 * apt whips out a shotgun, trudges over to CM, and goes postal
Oct 25 19:55:40 <woglinde> hm yes we have serval kandidates to improve the documentation
Oct 25 19:55:46 <CM> om too, but that didn't exist when I set up the om build first time
Oct 25 19:56:25 <CM> woglinde: I know I've been a lazy ass there too, but I have done some updates to that wiki. Mostly spell fixes and some minor stuff that wasn't completely correct :)
Oct 25 19:58:43 <CM> Mek: Do you mean while powered off and charging, or booted up?
Oct 25 19:59:08 <woglinde> cm :)
Oct 25 19:59:22 <Mek> CM: while booted up
Oct 25 19:59:25 <CM> Mek: I think you can cat some sys/*/*/batvolt thing and get an estimate, but I don't think there's any widged saying 60% and charging yet
Oct 25 19:59:31 <CM> battvolt
Oct 25 19:59:38 <SpeedEvil> apm
Oct 25 19:59:52 <SpeedEvil> but 50%=5%, 90%=95%
Oct 25 20:05:53 <faern> Why is the flashing phase running qemu-system-arm? it waits 300 sec for that process to terminate. but it doesn't (no wonder the images sent to it doesn't exist.)
Oct 25 20:06:58 <faern> qemu-system-arm is the emulator, right? so why does it try to run it before it creates the bloody images?
Oct 25 20:07:36 <StylusEater_Work> bloody? did you stab it?
Oct 25 20:07:42 <StylusEater_Work> :-)
Oct 25 20:08:06 <cjb_ie> shylock - "if you prick us, do we not bleed?"
Oct 25 20:08:55 <faern> :P
Oct 25 20:09:04 <CM> faern: I'm not sure, but before open-moko-image built qemu to generate native binary locales for glibc. Don't know if that's still the case, since I have ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in my local.conf
Oct 25 20:09:47 <CM> Saves quite some time too. You can also have something like: GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" to just have one locale instead of al
Oct 25 20:09:50 <CM> l
Oct 25 20:10:41 <faern> should I add that to my local.conf? is it a way to save just time? or can it be a solution?
Oct 25 20:11:46 <faern> I have been tinkering with this for some time now. But I can't figure out why it wont build the images
Oct 25 20:12:13 <faern> I get openmoko-sd.image. but not flash, nor the kernel
Oct 25 20:12:27 * daMaestro wonders if the update system is fixed up yet
Oct 25 20:12:32 <daMaestro> ah, hello StylusEater_Work 
Oct 25 20:12:59 * daMaestro fires up the neo
Oct 25 20:13:18 <CM> faern: It's really weird. I should try to build from scratch again. I've upadted and built all om every day
Oct 25 20:14:17 <faern> CM, I have found people with the same problem. but no one seems to have the answer
Oct 25 20:14:32 <berkus> phew spotted the compile bug: lowlevel_foo was compiled without -mabi=apcs-gnu
Oct 25 20:14:47 <StylusEater_Work> daMaestro: hi.  I got a neo a few days ago... it's tasty.
Oct 25 20:14:57 <daMaestro> StylusEater_Work, right on
Oct 25 20:15:20 <CM> berkus: Maybe file that as a bug, or poke XorA|gone about it tomorrow or so
Oct 25 20:15:46 <berkus> CM: well, i'm building latest git with neo patches applied, so anything can go wrong :)
Oct 25 20:16:08 <CM> Hehe
Oct 25 20:17:52 <daMaestro> damn, so it seems the buildhost is down?
Oct 25 20:17:55 <StylusEater_Work> daMaestro: update system? ipkg?
Oct 25 20:18:01 <daMaestro> StylusEater_Work, yes
Oct 25 20:18:13 <daMaestro> StylusEater_Work, it's a lot quicker then flashing the device
Oct 25 20:18:26 <StylusEater_Work> yup. I use it on my slug.
Oct 25 20:18:38 <daMaestro> i have the first shipped uboot, so it doesn't first erase when flashing
Oct 25 20:18:42 <daMaestro> so it's a two step
Oct 25 20:18:56 <CM> daMaestro: Why not updating?
Oct 25 20:19:06 <CM> uboot I mean
Oct 25 20:19:17 <faern> CM, one thing that can cause error is that I built the first part with gcc-3.4 & glibc-2.5 and the last part with gcc-3.3 & glibc-2.6.. but if that would cause a fail it shouln't be in the flash, right?
Oct 25 20:19:19 <CM> Just make sure you get a tried and tested revision :)
Oct 25 20:19:43 <CM> faern: Hmm.. No, that shouldn't be it
Oct 25 20:20:11 <CM> faern: Btw, I had a problem flashing too a while ago, had to install dosfsutils natively on my desktop to get around that
Oct 25 20:20:26 <faern> CM, yes me too
Oct 25 20:20:49 <faern> and i had to link /usr/sbin/mkdosfs to /sbin/mkdosfs
Oct 25 20:20:49 <CM> But after that I haven't had any issues
Oct 25 20:20:58 <CM> Heh, that too :)
Oct 25 20:21:22 <StylusEater_Work> daMaestro: you can upgrade uboot but if you don't have a debug board... unbricking would be hard
Oct 25 20:21:47 <faern> strange... maybe I should start over clean and all. but the initial build take ages :/
Oct 25 20:22:00 <CM> StylusEater_Work: I don't have a debugboard, but I've flashed 3 u-boots
Oct 25 20:22:20 <CM> Unfortunately, the first one I flashed was a bit broken.. :P
Oct 25 20:22:57 <StylusEater_Work> okie.
Oct 25 20:23:05 <xzcvczx> one of the ones on scaredycats host is b0rked as well it will still boot/updatable but if you try cu -l .... it jsut comes up with jibberish
Oct 25 20:23:32 <CM> xzcvczx: What is the latest "known to work safely" uboot?
Oct 25 20:23:42 <xzcvczx> i am happily running 17th sep
Oct 25 20:23:52 <xzcvczx> dunno if theres a newer one
Oct 25 20:24:34 <CM> I need a later one, oct 19th or so, when Harald fixed the console to be usb as default when you boot with aux pressed
Oct 25 20:24:48 <xzcvczx> oh ok
Oct 25 20:24:52 <CM> But I haven't heard any reports about a known working one in the last week :)
Oct 25 20:24:54 <xzcvczx> what are you running at the moment?
Oct 25 20:24:55 <CM> So I'll wait
Oct 25 20:25:24 <CM> Not sure, some fairly old one
Oct 25 20:26:07 <berkus> hmm.. it built
Oct 25 20:26:32 <StylusEater_Work> peace out.
Oct 25 20:26:38 <StylusEater_Work> thx for the battery tip CM.
Oct 25 20:27:01 <CM> :)
Oct 25 20:29:30 <berkus> state(10) = dfuERROR, status(1) = File is not targeted for use by this device
Oct 25 20:29:32 <berkus> hrm
Oct 25 20:29:56 <daMaestro> CM, i just have not really seen a need to risk bricking my device
Oct 25 20:32:54 <CM> daMaestro: Fair enough, but at least the one from the 2007.08 august release has that nand erase rootfs thing fixed :)
Oct 25 20:33:09 <daMaestro> yeah, that is the only reason i've even considered
Oct 25 20:33:19 <daMaestro> but with ipkg "working" i've not had to flash for a while
Oct 25 20:33:30 <daMaestro> CM, is buildhost known to be down?
Oct 25 20:33:43 <CM> Yes, every now and then
Oct 25 20:34:11 <CM> Not sure why right now, but openmoko.com was down this morning for maintenace, so maybe the buildhost was next in line :)
Oct 25 20:35:29 <daMaestro> ah, ok
Oct 25 20:35:30 <anrp> the mokoninja shows his face
Oct 25 20:35:32 <anrp> !!
Oct 25 20:35:41 <berkus> night all
Oct 25 20:42:46 <faern> according to this http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg05859.html my error should have been solved in june.. so now I wonder, why am I getting this.. This is getting on my nerves
Oct 25 22:06:19 <XorA|gone> anyone awake
Oct 25 22:12:04 <faern> XorA|gone, yes
Oct 25 22:12:42 <XorA|gone> just wondering had a wierd message from another dev if anyone was having problems building kernels
Oct 25 22:25:27 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03andrew * r3276 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/neo1973.c: 
Oct 25 22:25:27 <CIA-13> openmoko: Import a basic Neo1973 modem definition for Qtopia "phonesim".
Oct 25 22:25:27 <CIA-13> openmoko: Set initial display resolution to 480x640 px.
Oct 25 22:26:53 <xzcvczx> with gps how many characters is the position readout
Oct 25 22:28:56 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03andrew * r3277 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: Add the forgotten file in svn...
Oct 25 22:29:06 <SpeedEvil> xzcvczx: what do you mean by that?
Oct 25 22:29:32 <SpeedEvil> xzcvczx: to more significant figures than the accuracy if that's what you eamn.
Oct 25 22:31:57 <anrp> generally its 6
Oct 25 22:32:06 <anrp> 2.6 precision in minutes
Oct 25 22:32:19 <anrp> which is more than you need as the hardware isn't that accurate
Oct 25 22:32:32 <anrp> ... well, unless you pay megabucks for an INS
Oct 25 22:33:09 <Mek> how accurute in meters is that? :P
Oct 25 22:33:14 <anrp> depends on latitude
Oct 25 22:33:44 <xzcvczx> if latitude is in new zealand :P
Oct 25 22:33:59 <anrp> 1.6667e-08 is the amount of decimal degree resolution
Oct 25 22:34:00 <SpeedEvil> xzcvczx: it's irrelevant
Oct 25 22:34:09 <anrp> which is super high ...
Oct 25 22:34:12 <SpeedEvil> xzcvczx: the accuracy is 2-3m typically.
Oct 25 22:34:34 <SpeedEvil> xzcvczx: the readout is way more figures than this
Oct 25 22:34:41 <anrp> indeed
Oct 25 22:34:43 <xzcvczx> is there any way to work it out more accurately if you know your exact height
Oct 25 22:34:48 <SpeedEvil> no
Oct 25 22:34:56 <SpeedEvil> Well - yes.
Oct 25 22:35:06 <SpeedEvil> But, not with the supplied software.
Oct 25 22:35:11 <xzcvczx> ah ok
Oct 25 22:35:41 <xzcvczx> so you would have to see a opensource "daemon" come out for it in which case you could?
Oct 25 22:36:08 <SpeedEvil> To a smaller extent with the GTA02 hardware than GTA01
Oct 25 22:36:21 <SpeedEvil> why do you want accurate position?
Oct 25 22:36:55 <anrp> basically it doesn't matter ~_~
Oct 25 22:36:59 * Mek would love to have 30cm accuracy, but I guess that's not going to happen...
Oct 25 22:37:10 <anrp> worse case accuracy on the equator with the 2.6 precision is an amazing 1.8mm
Oct 25 22:37:27 <SpeedEvil> Mek: certainly not unfortunately with the hardware in GTA02. 
Oct 25 22:37:39 <anrp> if you can resolve that... you're probably affiliated with the military
Oct 25 22:37:50 <SpeedEvil> meg: with the hardware in GTA01, and complex software - perhaps.
Oct 25 22:38:13 <SpeedEvil> (nobody has written this, and is unlikely to do so it looks like)
Oct 25 22:38:29 <anrp> EKF ftw D:
Oct 25 22:40:32 <anrp> an EKF or related filter with gps and accel as input might (big might) be able to give you better accuracy
Oct 25 22:40:42 <anrp> MEMS accelerometers are so noisy though
Oct 25 22:40:56 <anrp> and a non temperature controlled environment makes it much worse
Oct 25 22:41:14 <daMaestro> are we going to be able to use the GPS soon SpeedEvil ?
Oct 25 22:43:10 <SpeedEvil> daMaestro: the software works fine.
Oct 25 22:43:21 <daMaestro> but it's not been released?
Oct 25 22:43:35 <SpeedEvil> daMaestro: to get it released, you need to find the appropriate lawyer, and apply instruments of persuasion.
Oct 25 22:44:06 <anrp> a lart, for instance
Oct 25 22:44:19 <SpeedEvil> No need to get high tech.
Oct 25 22:44:26 <anrp> hehe
Oct 25 22:44:27 <SpeedEvil> A rock, or a board with nails in works fine.
Oct 25 22:44:37 <anrp> the software exists and is questionably legal to distribute
Oct 25 22:44:55 <anrp> however if you look hard its findable D:
Oct 25 22:56:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03andrew * r3278 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: 
Oct 25 22:56:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: Emit cellular result codes according to AT+CRC value.
Oct 25 22:56:36 <CIA-13> openmoko: More TI Calypso compatiblity (AT+CLIP, AT+CFUN, AT+CBC, AT+CNUM).
Oct 26 00:20:28 <xzcvczx> hmmm gps doesnt seem to work too well in a concrete building
Oct 26 01:07:15 <Mek> hey... nice... I upgraded the software on my neo, and now all of a sudden media player actually more or less works! yay :)
Oct 26 01:34:35 <CVirus> Can the GTA01 make calls with OpenMoko now ?
Oct 26 01:34:40 <CVirus> using*
Oct 26 01:38:47 <alphaone> I have been doing that, yes
Oct 26 01:39:40 <Mek> with the Dialer gui, or with some command-line stuff?
Oct 26 01:46:14 <alphaone> Dialer
Oct 26 01:47:57 <Mek> hmm.. I don't even seem to be able to get it to recognize my sim card...
Oct 26 02:14:10 <Mek> btw, already seen http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2007/10/openmoko_firstlook ?
Oct 26 02:33:25 <kW> nice :-)
Oct 26 02:57:30 <jadams_> hey hey
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 26 02:59:56 2007