**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 27 02:59:56 2007 Oct 27 03:31:36 i'm just starting out app development for OM, can I use glade for gtk? Oct 27 03:33:23 or better yet, pygtk? Oct 27 04:20:07 can i use gtkmm on openmoko? Oct 27 04:55:23 what is the link for the tutorial to emulate OM with X? Oct 27 05:13:21 wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Xoo or wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Xephyr Oct 27 07:17:59 evening Oct 27 07:18:35 i was playing with the openmakefile and its failing pretty early during one of the fetches Oct 27 07:19:44 fetching http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/trunk_svn.o-hand.com_.repos.eds-dbus__now.tar.gz Oct 27 07:22:19 too late for a quick responce in here i see ;) well hopefully they'll be something in the morning. Oct 27 07:52:12 good morning Oct 27 07:55:42 anyone knows if latest kernelimages contains qvga patch?, it should right? Oct 27 07:57:02 whats the big deal with qvga? Oct 27 07:57:52 :q Oct 27 07:58:18 oops... sorry. wrong window! Oct 27 08:04:43 torpor, nice for mplayer Oct 27 08:13:13 sorry for asking... I relaize this is a developer phone, just curious if I'm experiencing the norm or something unusual Oct 27 08:13:22 I got a new moko and flashed it with both the sep 3 and current images Oct 27 08:13:25 and the phone is pretty darn slow Oct 27 08:13:29 I also changed the cpu speed to 266 Oct 27 08:14:32 is that normal? Oct 27 08:14:49 the scrolling of the basic menu takes forever, takes a real long time to switch between apps, CPU usage is very high when doing anything Oct 27 08:20:40 ishiboo, scrolling feels snappy for me Oct 27 08:21:21 when I switch between options on the bottom Oct 27 08:21:26 you can see different parts of the screen render Oct 27 08:21:30 ishiboo, and takes a couple of seconds to start an app, not blazingly fast...but seems kinda OK Oct 27 08:21:53 ishiboo, that does not sound normal Oct 27 08:22:09 odd Oct 27 08:22:17 like I said, I flashed two different root fs/kernels Oct 27 08:22:43 try to run top in ssh and look for the process taking all the cpu Oct 27 08:23:09 it's today, the keyboard app, dialer, and X Oct 27 08:23:48 hmm, ok Oct 27 08:24:08 sorry, no idea Oct 27 08:24:13 so Oct 27 08:24:23 have to go in to town now Oct 27 08:24:25 your experience is this is something that speed-wise could be sold as a phone? Oct 27 08:24:32 because what I have is not nearly fast enough Oct 27 08:26:45 again, don't think I'm looking for a finished phone, but it seems like the CPU is completely incapable of running X/etc with how it works now :) Oct 27 08:31:15 the cpu is more than enough ishiboo, those are software problems Oct 27 08:31:18 IMO, speed is _completely_ adequate. - X speed. Oct 27 08:31:28 you can try qtopia on your neo if you want to get a feel of the speed Oct 27 08:31:32 It's quite snappy enough running stuff over USB-net Oct 27 08:31:53 yeah if I ssh in while the phone is idle (backlight off) it seems quick Oct 27 08:31:56 but the ui is pretty slow Oct 27 08:32:01 The problems with the software at the moment are that all the effort is going into getting it sort-of-working Oct 27 08:32:12 and none into speed optimisation. Oct 27 08:32:15 why is there a full version of X instead of something like nanox? Oct 27 08:32:50 At the moment, they are just teaching the pig to sing, getting it in tune will be later. Oct 27 08:33:03 dunno the reason ishiboo, seems weird to me too that they are using X Oct 27 08:33:05 thats no problem, I don't plan on using any of the existing software for the most part Oct 27 08:33:13 ishiboo: I've run a full version of X on a 486/75 and below. Oct 27 08:33:25 A full version of X is not the problem. This is _Fast_ hardware. Oct 27 08:33:28 speed: yeah, fair point. I've had X on a 66mhz pentium and it was damn quick. Oct 27 08:33:39 *ponder* Oct 27 08:33:51 wonder if I can ssh in and start just a normal X server without running the moko software Oct 27 08:33:53 I can't see why not right? Oct 27 08:33:56 Part of the problem is the complete lack of video accelleration. Oct 27 08:34:14 oh so there arn't fb drivers for the video chip Oct 27 08:34:15 that's a big issue Oct 27 08:34:25 you can start the normal server, do xhost +, and run your own wm and apps on it remotely Oct 27 08:35:49 sweet that works Oct 27 08:35:56 wow. Oct 27 08:37:39 for the GSM Oct 27 08:37:47 is there any access to data or just phone right now? Oct 27 08:38:11 See 'Manually using GPRS' on the wiki Oct 27 08:38:24 I don't know if the more recent firmware supports this Oct 27 08:38:38 I don't know if the more recent images support turning this on automatically. Oct 27 08:39:57 odd Oct 27 08:40:02 after xhost + it is still rejecting my connection Oct 27 08:40:38 you've done export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0 ont eh other side? Oct 27 08:40:54 yeah Oct 27 08:40:57 it sees the connection and denies it. Oct 27 08:41:20 xhost again - see what it is Oct 27 08:42:01 xhost + does not disable anything, running "xhost" right after shows access control is still on Oct 27 08:42:06 and xhost +ip does not add it either Oct 27 08:42:48 I'm sorry, I'm not woken up properly. Oct 27 08:44:52 there we go Oct 27 08:44:55 passed -ac to Xfbdev Oct 27 08:44:59 removed the access control. Oct 27 08:45:13 ah - that's it, yes, forgot about that. Oct 27 08:48:51 the display is so awesome it makes all the old X apps look modern Oct 27 08:49:40 It is insanely good. Oct 27 08:50:01 the display seems to have a much higher dpi than my iphone Oct 27 08:50:14 this is a fucking sweet platform to work on Oct 27 08:51:28 The display is 285dpi Oct 27 08:54:18 yeah. needs graphics drivers Oct 27 08:57:06 There is nothing to drive Oct 27 08:57:13 the hardware is a simple framebuffer. Oct 27 08:57:22 There is no accelleration at all Oct 27 08:59:51 so the graphics won't get faster? Oct 27 08:59:53 blitting is really slow Oct 27 09:00:11 Blitting could concievably be offloaded onto the DMA units Oct 27 09:00:20 GTA02 has a hardware video accel chip Oct 27 09:00:42 GTA02 is the same exact screen right Oct 27 09:01:31 yes Oct 27 09:03:33 any information about that chip? Oct 27 09:03:56 no detailed Oct 27 09:04:34 I see. Oct 27 09:04:44 Just interested to know who makes it. Oct 27 09:05:56 smedia Oct 27 09:13:44 can you change the clock speed from linux? Oct 27 09:14:44 openmoko: 03andrew * r3292 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: Import more GSM functionality from troll.xml (GPRS, phonebook, SIM filesystem, etc). Oct 27 09:25:16 hi all Oct 27 09:25:54 hi Oct 27 09:40:42 anyone know if it would be possible to run windows CE on a neo? :) Oct 27 09:42:02 * cjb_ie winces Oct 27 09:42:15 * doc|home eyes krLun Oct 27 09:43:12 krLun: almost certainly Oct 27 09:43:44 hi btw Oct 27 09:43:45 :) Oct 27 09:43:56 i just wanna know my options Oct 27 09:44:33 it seems like there will be plenty! i read that trolltech is swifting focus from their greenphone to neo, and then theres the openmoko system, and now also winCE Oct 27 09:44:41 shifting* Oct 27 09:45:13 but how would you get it? can you buy winCE on its own? how would you install it? where would you get drivers for the hardware? Oct 27 09:45:57 i assume its purchasable? Oct 27 09:46:21 otherwise it wouldn't be a very good product Oct 27 09:46:22 :) Oct 27 09:46:50 krLun: i've only ever seen it sold with a device that it's already installed on. Oct 27 09:47:19 maybe i can re-use the wince on my HTC phone Oct 27 09:47:23 http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/aa714410.aspx How to Buy Windows Embedded Operating Systems Oct 27 09:47:59 anyway, i wonder how difficult it will be to get your hands on a gta02 in december :) i mean, its like the entire world is just sitting and reloading the wiki to find a pre-order link Oct 27 09:48:36 and im guessing "massmarket" only means producing a few hundred times more units than the gta01, in the first batch? Oct 27 09:50:22 No Oct 27 09:50:29 GTA01 has sold several thousand Oct 27 09:54:43 * doc|home wants one now damn it! Oct 27 09:54:53 have they sorted out customs stuff yet? Oct 27 09:55:06 that's your problem Oct 27 09:55:17 recent reports have pay->get taking a week or so (in the US) Oct 27 09:55:27 where are you? Oct 27 09:55:31 and courier options? Oct 27 09:56:29 fedex or UPS Oct 27 09:56:32 I forget which Oct 27 09:56:40 $40 or so to europe IIRC Oct 27 09:57:32 in canada, but may be in europe Oct 27 09:58:02 it's the VAT which is the killer :/ having a distribution centre in the US could help that, as would it being considered a computer rather than a phone I think Oct 27 09:58:08 er, in europe Oct 27 10:01:19 I don't think canada was in europe last time I checked. Oct 27 10:02:59 doc|home: VAT has to be charged at some point - that's the whole idea Oct 27 10:03:21 in canada, but may be in europe Oct 27 10:03:29 If it's imported at an artificially low price, then the importing company pays 1/2 the normal VAT Oct 27 10:03:31 people move you know? :) Oct 27 10:03:48 However, you then pay the other 1/2 when it's sold to you Oct 27 10:04:04 the same VAT charged is the same as if you paid the VAT directly. Oct 27 10:04:11 s/same// Oct 27 10:04:12 SpeedEvil meant: the VAT charged is the same as if you paid the VAT directly. Oct 27 10:13:33 ... Oct 27 10:13:40 just read about openmoko on the web. makes a lot of sense. will definitely check back in a couple of months to see the sate of the project Oct 27 10:15:13 SpeedEvil, still, 100x "several thousand" won't be enough for the community waiting for gta02 :) Oct 27 10:15:25 thats the feeling i get, everyone is excited about it Oct 27 10:15:36 Hi, is there some problem with webkit-gtk-0.1+svnr26915-r3 and binutils? What is a working svn version? Oct 27 10:15:39 so i still think they will be sold out the first day Oct 27 10:22:50 Sorry, WHICH is a working svn version for binutils and webkit-gtk? Oct 27 10:23:00 I'm sleeping... Oct 27 10:23:17 speaking of buying gta02, is the price confirmed? Oct 27 10:23:20 at $450? Oct 27 10:28:16 Well - it's confirmed as anything gets. Oct 27 10:28:19 cb22: if the dollar drops 2:1 to the euro, the price is ok. Otherwise I may buy another gta01. Oct 27 10:28:20 stefan_schmidt: ping Oct 27 10:28:48 It's not been confirmed if GTA01 will remain available after GTA02 hits. Oct 27 10:28:53 Personally, I hope so. Oct 27 10:29:11 I actually like the stereo speakers ;-) Oct 27 10:29:13 I think they will just sell the ones they have Oct 27 10:30:04 I also like the -$150 Oct 27 10:30:22 At $300, it makes sense as a dev platform for many things. Oct 27 10:30:27 At $450 - not. Oct 27 10:30:57 $450 is a difficult price tag when trying to reach mass markets Oct 27 10:31:01 does a third make that much different? Oct 27 10:31:14 cjb_ie, and then add on shipping... Oct 27 10:31:15 and taxes... Oct 27 10:31:46 cjb_ie: if you don't need wifi, or hardware accel, or the accelerometers, yes. Oct 27 10:31:55 I wonder how far the talks -if any- with the cell operators have come, i.e. getting it with a subscription Oct 27 10:32:10 High-end should be easier to reach with this kind of phone. Oct 27 10:32:18 gamin: nowhere Oct 27 10:32:40 gamin: you can't even begin those sorts of talks until you have a user-ready bit of hardware+software Oct 27 10:32:42 If you can offer features that other manufacturers simply don't have, some people will pay whatever the cost. Oct 27 10:33:15 SpeedEvil: so basically one has to buy it from FIC for $450 + VAT + ship... Oct 27 10:33:29 But trying to compete in the budget market with price, battery life, etc. probably does not work too well. Oct 27 10:33:48 No. Oct 27 10:33:54 gamin: yes Oct 27 10:34:06 for me: $450, $?, $100 Oct 27 10:34:15 thats $550 with just shipping :/ Oct 27 10:34:20 i'm still getting one though Oct 27 10:34:21 price of a laptop... Oct 27 10:34:25 gamin: one of the problems is that many operators require lock-ins of various forms. Oct 27 10:34:36 gamin: in order to sell the phones subsidised. Oct 27 10:34:36 Features of a laptop, too, I suppose. Oct 27 10:34:49 SpeedEvil, not in all countries Oct 27 10:34:56 infact, in some countries it is against the law Oct 27 10:35:11 cbrake_away: in order to get subsidised phones. Oct 27 10:35:13 cb22: Oct 27 10:36:06 cb22: I'd personally be quite happy with a GTA02 at $200, locked in to one operator (as long as they had reasonable data prices) Oct 27 10:36:34 SpeedEvil: as long as they have reasonable data roaming prices... Oct 27 10:36:46 I don't care about that. Oct 27 10:36:57 Many europeans do... Oct 27 10:37:02 But I can see it's a problem for some people. Oct 27 10:37:30 hii Oct 27 10:37:41 Hi! Oct 27 10:37:47 hello Oct 27 10:37:57 I wonder if the locking to an operator is done in the firmware of the TI modem? Oct 27 10:38:01 * XorA|gone needs cheap roaming for OpenMoko work :-) Oct 27 10:38:06 gamin: yes Oct 27 10:38:18 SpeedEvil: what a pity :) Oct 27 10:38:37 SpeedEvil, couldn't it be done at a higher level too? even though this would be easily bypassed Oct 27 10:38:56 cb22: people would just reflash Oct 27 10:38:58 cbrake_away: sure. It's trivial to lock it down so you'd need a debug board to unlock. Oct 27 10:39:07 cb22: for trivial = SMOP Oct 27 10:40:04 Personally I want the freedom to lock my hardware down so hard that it cannot be revived by the debug board without my password. Oct 27 10:40:19 But I've said this before. Oct 27 10:40:39 SpeedEvil: LVM and dmcrypt Oct 27 10:40:45 SpeedEvil: you need a soldering iron then, I suppose ;-p Oct 27 10:40:57 XorA: bastard that steals my phone doesn't get to use it morelike. Oct 27 10:41:58 It would be interesting to know what the manufacturing costs are - i.e. how far FIC can come down on the price while still making money. Oct 27 10:42:11 apropos performance and lagginess, anyone ported anything else for the framebuffer device except an X server? Oct 27 10:42:35 like fb SDL apps (games/emu's) that are comfy with a fb device, and don't need X .. Oct 27 10:42:37 In the end they will try to maximise their profit - if it doesn't sell @ $450 they'll come dowm with the price Oct 27 10:43:20 .. coz on gp2x land, we don't have lagginess, generally. no X server. Oct 27 10:44:06 also, it appears to me there is room for a -lot- of optimization .. so can we assume that the current openmoko scene is in debug land for now, and will switch to a more compact scenario as things stabilize .. Oct 27 10:45:47 iSupply calculated the the iphone ~250$ manufacturing costs Oct 27 10:47:33 its more like 180 - 200, when things are adjusted for apple's accounting over 3 to 4 years. they have to do the 3.0 iphone before it starts to really kick their profit .. Oct 27 10:49:42 no company starting out in hardware today should assume that a 1.0 release is going to be huge. you have to do hardware right at least 3 times to do it right at all. Oct 27 10:50:37 a planned sequence of hardware releases, with software glue between, is a sound strategy. for the neo to hit it, we not only need to see a public gta02 release that makes sense, we have to see the moko platform move beyond that onto other devices, too, relatively shortly thereafter. Oct 27 10:50:46 torpor: hmm, the iphone hasn't sold that badly? Oct 27 10:51:08 gamin: they calculate in millions Oct 27 10:51:32 gamin: if they dont see that they can hit with x million devices, nooone even thinks of producing a phone nowadays Oct 27 10:51:48 expenses for development are too great Oct 27 10:51:52 gamin: its selling at far higher margins than other mfr's, certainly, but remember that apple has rather large-range experience, at this point .. Oct 27 10:52:14 in asia there are plenty of phones which are only sold in the 100.000s - according to Sean. Oct 27 10:52:29 flaushy: not strictly true. many hardware mfr's are content at lots of 10,000's, and can profit grandly from well-executed lower-sum releases. Oct 27 10:52:53 in apples' case, and wouldn't we all like to 'be apple', the figures are in the millions because they've been doing it longer. Oct 27 10:52:55 cool, but question is always: how much marketing, dev and distribution sucks up Oct 27 10:53:07 in nokia, motorola, etc it is too Oct 27 10:53:28 apple are actually a grandfather company of computing, not upstarts. they've been the punks since the 70's, remember. unlike some people, for whom madonna was not a ripoff. Oct 27 10:53:48 yeah, they know their business Oct 27 10:54:00 even tho they fuck up in some other parts (here in germany at least) Oct 27 10:54:16 but that company depends on its reputation Oct 27 10:54:18 they have momentum in their customer databases. they've got great customer databases. Oct 27 10:54:38 yeah :) Oct 27 10:54:38 you can make money on lower-order hardware runs, if you really pour good software and service to the product into the price. Oct 27 10:55:02 true Oct 27 10:55:20 if you wanna make throw-away computers, like motorola and nokia, which you expect your users to grow bored of rapidly, you're not allowed to sell things at higher prices. but the technology is the same. Oct 27 10:55:29 torpor: like the iphone clone? :p Oct 27 10:55:54 btw, does anyone know how high FIC calculates in terms of units? Oct 27 10:55:55 you do realize that iphone is derided in asian markets, because asia has had iphones for years. Oct 27 10:56:21 really, iphone is just like a corvet conversion kit for a cheap honda. Oct 27 10:56:33 hehe Oct 27 10:56:50 flaushy: just a guess: I think the low six figures will start to make them happy Oct 27 10:56:55 neo1973==volkswagen handy Oct 27 10:57:05 gamin: thx :) Oct 27 10:57:20 i wonder how much money they save by "using" the community Oct 27 10:57:37 they save pretty much about 2 salaries worth. Oct 27 10:57:49 and create, for themselves anyway, a few extra staff positions in the process. Oct 27 10:57:55 so its pretty much moot, to be honest. Oct 27 10:58:10 flaushy: they sold a couple thousand GTA01's that you still can't use for your daily life, so some ten thousand once it works should be easily doable Oct 27 10:58:18 yeah, but will be hopefully a good investment in the future :) Oct 27 10:58:34 the only thing that matters is if the organization can pull off a hardware release rapidly enough to do it again, successfully, a couple more times thereafter. Oct 27 10:59:08 you know what? i wish the stupid battery problems were fixed already. how come it isn't? Oct 27 10:59:41 perhaps openmoko is too high profile, and its attracting too many people, and thus those at the core are getting deerstruck and forgetting to do the basics. in short: lets fork!! Oct 27 10:59:56 i kid! Oct 27 11:00:05 a propos battery: is there a place in /sys where I can echo something to clock down the cpu? Oct 27 11:01:23 yup Oct 27 11:01:37 torpor: which is? Oct 27 11:01:44 i forget Oct 27 11:01:48 heh Oct 27 11:01:52 and my moko is not booting up coz the battery is flat Oct 27 11:02:23 soon as its up i'll tell you, or you can check yourself .. Oct 27 11:04:25 find /sys -name '*clock*' doesn't result in anything useful, neither does a search for cpu Oct 27 11:07:29 gamin: no Oct 27 11:07:41 gamin: you can slow it down at boot Oct 27 11:07:48 see [[Bootloader]] Oct 27 11:07:49 IIRC Oct 27 11:09:08 another question: is the click sound handled by the window manager? I couldn't find anything specific in /etc/matchbox Oct 27 11:09:42 I think neod takes care of that? Oct 27 11:11:26 s/\?// Oct 27 11:15:11 Vegar: thanks Oct 27 11:36:29 openmoko: 03andrew * r3293 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: More TI Calypso AT commands. Oct 27 11:46:09 we need D on openmoko: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/index_e.html Oct 27 11:53:13 something is strange with my qemu flashing. or rather the build before is strange.. The flash searches for build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01 but I only have neo1973 in that dir. so I link it so it goes into the neo dir. but there it searches for an uImage en Oct 27 11:53:36 ..ending in fic-gta01. but I only have neo1973 there too Oct 27 11:54:41 so I link that file too. now the flashing continues. but it fires up qemu-system-arm, waits 300 sec and dies Oct 27 11:54:57 google don't seem to help :/ Oct 27 11:55:33 torpor, D as in D programming language? that would be nice :D Oct 27 12:12:14 stefan_schmidt: ping Oct 27 12:30:32 VERSION Oct 27 12:35:00 * * OM Bug 960 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 27 12:35:01 * * list of packages lack kinematic scrolling Oct 27 12:35:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=960 Oct 27 12:36:00 * * OM Bug 961 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 27 12:36:01 * * Scrolling of packages list produce unreadable content Oct 27 12:36:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=961 Oct 27 12:40:46 d Oct 27 12:41:01 * * OM Bug 962 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 27 12:41:02 * * Neod cannot close application when menu is open Oct 27 12:41:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=962 Oct 27 13:01:00 * * OM Bug 963 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 27 13:01:01 * * Mediaplayer SHOULD depend on gst-plugin-pulse Oct 27 13:01:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=963 Oct 27 13:02:16 hrw|gone: mickey wanted gst-pulse to be a dependency for openmoko-soundsystem and thus it wouldn't be needed for the media player - so XorA went with that instead Oct 27 13:10:23 say, will this be able to charge neo1973: http://store.sundancesolar.com/sosochforipc.html Oct 27 13:14:06 most likely only slow charge, unless you force fast, which AFAIK at this point you can only do at grub Oct 27 13:14:11 not grub Oct 27 13:14:21 uboot Oct 27 13:15:50 beh Oct 27 13:15:58 see what apple are doing with the iphone now? Oct 27 13:16:05 no cash, and a limit of 2/person Oct 27 13:18:15 mjr: okay, but slow charge is planned to be supported at normal operation, right? I can even hack it myself once I get the dev kit.. Oct 27 13:20:43 da-x, slow charge works all the time. It is, however, slower than the phone is likely to draw power even after some power management tweaks... Oct 27 13:22:56 mjr: okay, so you are saying it will charge a bit faster at uboot since it would be very idle at that stage consuming a minimum of power while charging.. okay. Though I don't really mind about the speed it charges as long as it does, I'm not talking very much. Oct 27 13:24:00 * * OM Bug 964 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 27 13:24:01 * * Neod menus are wrongly placed after screen rotate Oct 27 13:24:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=964 Oct 27 13:24:12 Hi room. Oct 27 13:27:22 da-x, no, that is not at all what I'm saying Oct 27 13:29:02 it'd generally charge at a very low rate, unless forced to charge at a high rate, which you can do at uboot, but not when you've booted a kernel. The OM guys have reservations about forcing it in OM, though I suspect someone will eventually patch the option in. Anyway, a software issue, AFAIK. Oct 27 13:30:09 mjr: how much it time it would take for a full charge at this very low rate? Oct 27 13:30:45 long Oct 27 13:31:11 if it's on, it won't charge at all, merely deplete at a slower rate Oct 27 13:32:19 oh, so it's not possible to wait for calls and charge at the same time Oct 27 13:32:41 if by "on" you mean, just waiting for calls Oct 27 13:32:54 indeed Oct 27 13:33:42 hmm.. then I'd still have to use my nokia while development proceeds. Oct 27 13:33:42 if you need that, see how uboot forces fast-charging and patch your kernel to allow the same Oct 27 13:34:27 well it sucks as a phone anyway Oct 27 13:34:31 mjr: being a kernel hacker I'll definitely look into that. Oct 27 13:35:18 your only way to charge the device would be that solar charger? Oct 27 13:35:21 da-x: When the phone is idle and waiting for calls the CPU will be suspended, waiting for a wakeup from the GSM modem - so in that state it would indeed charge, albeit slowly Oct 27 13:35:53 you do know it does fast-charge when the usb is initialized by a proper usb host, right Oct 27 13:36:20 Yeah, but he was talking about slow charging Oct 27 13:36:57 yeah, I'm just wondering if he didn't switch into a more generic context unwarrantedly. Seemed like it. Oct 27 13:37:03 and he had misunderstood things before Oct 27 13:37:28 sorry I'm new to this openmoko things. Oct 27 13:42:32 grr what kind of powersave setting do i need so it will build all night Oct 27 13:48:59 This url is unaccessable: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ Oct 27 13:49:31 Is there any other daily build host? Oct 27 13:50:17 Penguin: http://buildhost.automated.it (it's ScaredyCat's) Oct 27 13:53:23 My irc client was crashed :( Oct 27 13:53:53 Penguin: http://buildhost.automated.it (it's ScaredyCat's) Oct 27 13:54:53 I found that if the neo is suspended, the system clock is never come with real time change. Oct 27 13:55:04 abraxa_: thx. Oct 27 14:07:42 Is it safe to flash new kernel into my neo without debug board? Oct 27 14:08:16 Yeah it is Oct 27 14:08:45 any libgsmd experts here? Oct 27 14:14:56 * Penguin finished first kernel flash with my neo:) Oct 27 14:14:56 with last 2.6.22 kernel from ScaredyCat's buildhost:) Oct 27 14:14:58 cool, I heard some sound with the new kernel:) Oct 27 14:15:29 are there any plans on moving to 2.6.23 any time soon? Oct 27 14:24:29 ScaredyCat: you there? Oct 27 14:24:36 whats the pkg name for settings gui again? Oct 27 14:25:04 settingsgui i think Oct 27 14:26:19 ghiottone told me but i forget it and i just overwrite my moko with the latest image .. Oct 27 14:26:23 i guess its in his repo .. Oct 27 14:32:19 if i changed my MACHINE to x86 in local.conf, can i still emulate with QEMU? Oct 27 14:32:31 right now i want to emulate with Xephyr Oct 27 14:32:53 but what if i want to emulate on qemu, build it all over again? Oct 27 14:33:08 ianj: If you set machine to x86 you can just chroot into it Oct 27 14:33:36 right, thats why im doing this Oct 27 14:33:43 but isn't qemu a more accurate emulation? Oct 27 14:33:57 so if im testing my app Oct 27 14:34:17 why do you want accurate emyulation?> Oct 27 14:34:19 Yeah, sure, though it prolly will still be slow Oct 27 14:37:23 why is qemu so slow? even on something like a core duo machine Oct 27 14:38:00 abraxa_: thanks Oct 27 14:38:18 yeah i don't get it either, thats why i'm doing xephyr Oct 27 14:38:39 SpeedEvil: i don't know, i guess i should just be testing on the Neo :) Oct 27 14:38:56 but i'm waiting for the gta02 Oct 27 14:45:55 Does anyone know where I can configure that terminals 2 and 4 don't show the syslog output as they currently do? Oct 27 14:53:31 how to enable sound beep when tap on screen? Oct 27 14:54:40 It should work out-of-the-box - if not, try an "alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore" Oct 27 14:59:48 whats best way to do 2d graphics on openmoko? Oct 27 14:59:54 can i use cairo? Oct 27 15:01:22 Yes, you can use Cairo Oct 27 15:01:32 Try to optimize for performance, however Oct 27 15:03:31 is it the best choice? Oct 27 15:04:46 Aside from using raw X calls and GTK+, yes Oct 27 15:05:33 On GTA02+ you will probably also be able to use OpenGL ES, though Cairo encapsulates that as far as I know Oct 27 15:07:31 yeah cairo can use at least normal opengl as backend, es shouldn't be too hard an adaptation Oct 27 15:07:39 requires a driver, 'course Oct 27 15:08:50 ianj: I recommend cairo, (though that shouldn't be too surprising coming from me). If you do run into performance problems of any kind, we'll definitely do all we can to fix them. Oct 27 15:08:53 anyone know what the easiest and quickest way to just get a cross compile toolkit for om would be? Oct 27 15:09:33 cworth, thanks! Oct 27 15:13:29 xzcvczx: Try http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ Oct 27 15:13:49 Hiho mickey Oct 27 15:14:17 heya Oct 27 15:14:49 mickey-tw: Is Stefan in .tw also or is he in .de? Oct 27 15:15:01 stefan is sitting next to me Oct 27 15:15:01 yo Oct 27 15:15:03 I'd like to talk to him regarding qvga Oct 27 15:15:06 he will login soon Oct 27 15:15:06 ohh nice Oct 27 15:15:11 in just 2 minutes Oct 27 15:15:12 i guess Oct 27 15:15:15 'kay, thanks :) Oct 27 15:15:16 abraxa_: thanks i thought i had seen something like that somewhere, downloading it now Oct 27 15:15:59 mickey-tw: Is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ usable or just a work-in-progress? (I assume it's your doing) Oct 27 15:18:06 should be usable, but needs much more testing. i got side tracked by this .tw trip, but will resume soonish Oct 27 15:18:21 mickey-tw: cool thanks Oct 27 15:18:23 Coolies :) Oct 27 15:19:11 i love how there is a 711 on every block in tw Oct 27 15:19:21 jfyi: for the remainder of this year, i will concentrate on tools Oct 27 15:20:18 ianj: ya, that rocks (somehow) Oct 27 15:20:28 Awesome, though that won't stop me from pestering you with all kinds of other issues ;D Oct 27 15:20:31 * xzcvczx rings openmoko and tells them to give mickey a payrise Oct 27 15:20:59 xzcvczx: do that! i work for insanely few bucks Oct 27 15:21:38 lol Oct 27 15:22:08 * SpeedEvil rings openmoko, and discovers that his sound still isn't working. Oct 27 15:22:42 SpeedEvil: lol, on the latest images mine ie Oct 27 15:22:45 is Oct 27 15:23:51 * SpeedEvil needs to update. Oct 27 15:23:58 * SpeedEvil is still using 2007.1 Oct 27 15:28:16 abraxa_: Just 5 more minutes Oct 27 15:28:31 stefan_schmidt: Take your time, you're not at work ;) Oct 27 15:29:00 right Oct 27 15:29:10 e z x hacking tonite Oct 27 15:35:01 SpeedEvil: are you really? Oct 27 15:35:35 SpeedEvil: is that due to the fact that something/s doesnt work in .2? Oct 27 15:41:42 abraxa_: done. What's up? Oct 27 15:42:15 stefan_schmidt: Thanks for taking the time. I tried QVGA mode yesterday and today, with limited success Oct 27 15:42:49 For example, I thought Harald merged the patch into the stock kernel, though apparently that isn't so Oct 27 15:43:07 Do you know the status of that by chance? Oct 27 15:43:37 abraxa_: oh, they are merged already, I guess the svn rev in OE was just not bumped Oct 27 15:44:26 abraxa_: For the start I could upload you a uImage Oct 27 15:44:45 abraxa_: That would take the hassle of compiling a special patchset manually from you Oct 27 15:44:51 Hmm, that might be it - I didn't check that Oct 27 15:44:58 Thanks, too late ;) Oct 27 15:46:02 When I set QVGA mode with the patched kernel (which worked then), kernel messages kept filling up the terminal Oct 27 15:46:34 I turned them off using "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk", though I wonder if there's a better way Oct 27 15:47:01 The cursor is also visible as well, is there anything that can be done about that also? Oct 27 15:47:01 abraxa_: hmm, what kind of kernel msgs? Oct 27 15:47:33 abraxa_: If you chvt there should not be any cursor. Oct 27 15:47:41 abraxa_: It's just the fb console Oct 27 15:47:48 "jbt7k74_enter_state: entering(old_state=normal_to_sleep): entering" and that sort Oct 27 15:48:02 Also some S3C messages for interrupt events Oct 27 15:48:40 Hmm, I used "chvt 4" and the cursor is always there, blinking in the bottom left corner Oct 27 15:48:41 abraxa_: Ah, nothing flooding, just normal kernel msgs Oct 27 15:49:20 Well yes, though these kernel messages get redrawn over mplayer's video output so that's a problem ;x Oct 27 15:49:58 abraxa_: hmm, but when you start playing the video there should be no cursor. Oct 27 15:50:23 Unfortunately, there is Oct 27 15:50:51 just enter the graphics mode on the fb Oct 27 15:50:54 then the cursor vanishes Oct 27 15:51:30 chvt 4 Oct 27 15:51:31 echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state Oct 27 15:51:31 fbset qvga Oct 27 15:51:31 echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk Oct 27 15:51:40 That's what I'm doing Oct 27 15:52:01 that's not enough Oct 27 15:52:05 Oh? Oct 27 15:52:13 you need to issue an ioctl to turn the fb into gfx mode Oct 27 15:52:23 (if you don`t like a blinky cursor) Oct 27 15:52:46 Any idea which ioctl that would be? Oct 27 15:53:01 hmm, i can dig it up if i can find my old qt patches again... Oct 27 15:53:07 let me check Oct 27 15:53:12 That's okay, I'll look myself then :) Oct 27 15:53:24 mickey-tw: Ah, that one you was talking about in your mail Oct 27 15:53:34 ya Oct 27 15:54:10 and here we see the exceptional grammar skills of a professional :P Oct 27 15:56:06 stefan_schmidt / mickey-tw: Thanks for the pointers you two, I'll keep working on it :) Oct 27 15:56:17 here we are Oct 27 15:56:24 man, that's long ago Oct 27 15:56:26 http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/opie/qt/qt-2.3.10.patch/vt-switch.patch?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain Oct 27 15:56:29 abraxa_: thanks Oct 27 15:56:33 Ohh, thanks :) Oct 27 15:56:44 ioctl( console_fd, KDSETMODE, KD_GRAPHICS ) == -1 ) is it Oct 27 15:57:10 Ah, so it's another ingredient for Stefan's patch then, I assume Oct 27 15:57:18 no Oct 27 15:57:21 userland should do that Oct 27 15:57:26 Okay Oct 27 15:57:30 so: you ;) Oct 27 15:57:43 i would also replace the call to chvt with the appropriate ioctl Oct 27 15:57:43 Fine by me :) Oct 27 15:58:03 Of course, I'm just trying things out manually first before coding it Oct 27 15:58:12 sure Oct 27 15:58:55 ah Oct 27 15:58:59 Sean comes through the door Oct 27 15:59:06 l8er Oct 27 15:59:08 I take it the printk problem will then also solve itself as kernel messages aren't shown on gfx consoles, right? Oct 27 15:59:16 Okay, have... fun? :) Oct 27 15:59:19 well Oct 27 15:59:22 the kernel CMDLINE is wrong Oct 27 15:59:28 it should read console=tty1 Oct 27 15:59:30 not tty0 Oct 27 15:59:40 we don't want kernel messages on the _current_ console, just on tty1 Oct 27 15:59:45 but yes, graphics mode should fix that as well Oct 27 15:59:46 Yeah Oct 27 15:59:50 Okay, not in my court then Oct 27 15:59:56 yep Oct 27 15:59:59 :) Oct 27 16:04:39 mickey-tw: does the sdk have openmoko-libs in it? Oct 27 16:40:44 'mornin' Oct 27 16:54:35 hi Oct 27 17:20:51 Hi, dose anyone here know a solution or workaround for Bug 937 Oct 27 17:21:29 bug #937 Oct 27 17:22:02 apt: bug #937 Oct 27 17:22:15 apt? Oct 27 17:23:02 ~ombug 937 Oct 27 17:23:16 !ombug 937 Oct 27 17:23:17 * * Bug 937, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Oct 27 17:23:19 * * nikosverschore(AT)gmail.com: Qemu doens't want to flash images Oct 27 17:23:20 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937 Oct 27 17:23:30 exactly this bug Oct 27 17:23:57 never used qemu, sorry Oct 27 17:29:15 the new today screen looks pretty bling :) Oct 27 17:32:12 pretty "bling"?? Oct 27 17:34:24 quoting Oct 27 17:34:25 :( seems like the touchscreen on my phone has just dies Oct 27 17:34:26 died Oct 27 17:34:40 http://planet.openmoko.org Oct 27 17:35:11 http://chrislord.net/ Oct 27 17:36:26 hmmmm... I see. Let's dress up a bug-ridden, non-working platform, and hope nobody notices that it doesn't make phone calls, the GPS doesn't work, and there's no power management. :( Oct 27 17:37:03 mwester-laptop, so, if it didnt do all of those, but had a cool 3d cube, i wouldnt care :) Oct 27 17:37:29 (Some of the fixes aren't even that hard -- the patches are sitting in the openmoko bug tracker, where they are growing old waiting for someone to apply them. Oct 27 17:37:31 ) Oct 27 17:37:59 whats the touchscreen device Oct 27 17:38:33 I think it's one of the /dev/input/* items, or something like that... Oct 27 17:39:03 /dev/ts0? Oct 27 17:39:28 or /dev/input/ts Oct 27 17:39:36 yeah just found it touchscreen0 Oct 27 17:47:56 getting wikipedia on the SD card would be nice Oct 27 17:48:49 without all the cruft that should be possible on a 2G card Oct 27 17:49:13 as static pages only, that is Oct 27 17:51:38 gamin, mokopedia Oct 27 17:52:29 cb22: nice idea for a name. plus mokogutenberg.... Oct 27 17:52:39 gamin, heh, wasnt mine Oct 27 17:52:42 it exists already Oct 27 17:52:47 wiki it Oct 27 18:02:42 cb22: looked into it, that's very nice! Oct 27 19:06:28 * mypapit going to shutdown... bye Oct 27 19:06:38 can anyone give me a suggestion on why my build might be failing? Oct 27 19:06:39 http://pastebin.com/m395b4396 Oct 27 19:10:37 ianj: looks like uboot doesn't compile for i486 Oct 27 19:10:56 it probably doesn't run on it anyways... Oct 27 19:11:00 uboot is an arm bootloader Oct 27 19:11:01 Dang mickey-tw, you're still up? Wow... :O Oct 27 19:11:07 mmh Oct 27 19:11:18 so, what does that mean for my xephyr emulation hopes and dreams? Oct 27 19:11:18 fsck it, we just had another endless discussion with marketing Oct 27 19:11:35 ianj: just don't build uboot. take it out of the build dependencies Oct 27 19:12:55 mickey-tw: thanks, i'll try that Oct 27 19:14:47 mickey-tw: lol anything that the public can know/would want to know come up? Oct 27 19:14:58 unfortunately not Oct 27 19:15:28 :S Oct 27 19:15:33 michael shiloh will tell everything he can Oct 27 19:15:46 in the future, i can only be the voice of engineering Oct 27 19:15:50 s/the/a/ Oct 27 19:15:52 mickey-tw meant: in a future, i can only be the voice of engineering Oct 27 19:16:04 which is ok, since this is actually what i'm supposed to do Oct 27 19:16:28 lol @ apt fscking up Oct 27 19:16:31 mickey-tw: give us 110% on the reactor! Oct 27 19:17:11 heh Oct 27 19:17:13 ~lart apt Oct 27 19:17:13 * apt tries to shut mickey-tw up Oct 27 19:23:02 marketing: where the people who can't do anything go to leech off of the people who can (tm) Oct 27 19:27:17 anybody else getting lots of ipkg errors wrt gtk+-fastscaling? Oct 27 19:30:22 "Package gtk+-fastscaling wants to install file X \n\t But that file is already provided by package" Oct 27 19:30:28 ya Oct 27 19:30:34 init 3 Oct 27 19:30:38 ipkg remove gtk+ --force-depends Oct 27 19:30:42 ipkg install gtk+-fastscaling Oct 27 19:30:45 init 5 Oct 27 19:30:49 should help Oct 27 19:30:51 thanks Oct 27 19:30:56 np Oct 27 19:32:16 how much free space do you have on your / ? Oct 27 19:32:36 I'm down to ~ 2M Oct 27 19:48:30 gah when i try to stty after starting cu to connect to /dev/ttySAC0 my phones just crashing :( Oct 27 19:49:59 Sounds like bug 788. Oct 27 19:50:29 !oebug 788 Oct 27 19:50:31 * * Bug 788, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: 2006-03-27 08:40 Oct 27 19:50:32 * * chris(AT)openedhand.com: BB file for Web Oct 27 19:50:33 * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Oct 27 19:50:40 Nope, not that one Oct 27 19:50:47 !oebug 778 Oct 27 19:50:48 * * Bug 778, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: 2006-03-24 11:00 Oct 27 19:50:49 * * : diet-x11 lies about X_HAVE_UTF8_STRING Oct 27 19:50:50 * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778 Oct 27 19:51:08 wouldnt it more likely be an openmoko bug Oct 27 19:51:31 * mwester-laptop thinks he might need another cup of coffee... Oct 27 19:51:44 !ombug 788 Oct 27 19:51:45 * * Bug 788, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Oct 27 19:51:45 * * mwester(AT)dls.net: Starting or stopping gsmd completely locks up the Neo Oct 27 19:51:46 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Oct 27 19:51:50 Ah, yep. Oct 27 19:54:26 is it possible to put a sim card in and use the dialer ootb yet? Oct 27 19:56:06 xzcvczx: If you'd rather not patch your own kernel, you can download the one at http://moko.mwester.net/ that's been patched to avoid that crash. Oct 27 20:00:51 folks, is there a file in the /dev directory or somewhere else which tells me the battery percentage? Oct 27 20:02:14 apm Oct 27 20:02:17 however Oct 27 20:02:21 it's inaccurate Oct 27 20:02:26 how? Oct 27 20:02:38 50%=5%, 90%=99% Oct 27 20:02:56 I've got a patch, but I'm having problems accessing it for annoying reasons. Oct 27 20:02:58 why? :) Oct 27 20:03:06 is there a non-linear but precise function for it? Oct 27 20:03:09 yes Oct 27 20:03:20 I've got an implementation of that function as a patch. Oct 27 20:03:22 hmm, cool. where is it written? Oct 27 20:03:38 But the patch is currently on an offline disk while I do the 'juggle data round tiny free space' dance Oct 27 20:03:52 mwester-laptop: thanks but in the end just used atcmd throught libtool-gsmd Oct 27 20:04:06 I hope to build, test, debug, and upload it soon. Oct 27 20:05:01 ok, so. I just wanted to test the battery consumption/life in different cases.. Like, when it is in idle mode, playing music, on the (non-usb router) charger, etc. Oct 27 20:06:57 GGGG Oct 27 20:07:21 Cap-lock problem? Oct 27 20:07:26 :p Oct 27 20:07:34 anybody have luck making calls ootb? Oct 27 20:07:45 or is it not possible? Oct 27 20:07:52 :) shift problem :) Oct 27 20:08:43 gabaug: "ootb" = out of the box? If so, not really. Oct 27 20:08:49 SpeedEvil: by the way I could only found /dev/apm_bios Oct 27 20:08:59 where's that apm file? Oct 27 20:09:00 mwester, yeah, out of the box Oct 27 20:09:27 mwester: really I just mean w/ latest pkgs and nothing else Oct 27 20:09:51 yeah i can make calls without a problem Oct 27 20:10:04 xzcvczx: no config changes or anything by hand? Oct 27 20:10:09 nope Oct 27 20:10:19 except putting the firmware on the device Oct 27 20:10:26 what do you mean? Oct 27 20:10:51 think of a computer you buy without an operating system.... same sorta thing Oct 27 20:11:07 so the Neo's don't ship w/ some necessary firmware? Oct 27 20:11:20 well the 01's didnt Oct 27 20:11:34 nice Oct 27 20:11:43 xzcvczx: do you have a link to the firmware/instructions? Oct 27 20:11:54 it is, actually. Preinstalled operatings suck, on any platform. Oct 27 20:12:01 1 read throught the wiki front page will set you ring Oct 27 20:12:02 right Oct 27 20:13:22 It's also worth mentioning that there are multiple firmware images to choose from. Openmoko is one, there is also the Qtopia image. Oct 27 20:13:52 xzcvczx: is that what you mean by firmware, openmoko? Oct 27 20:14:09 yes Oct 27 20:14:16 xzcvczx: you got a Neo w/o any OS on it? Oct 27 20:14:35 i think everyone whos got one did Oct 27 20:14:38 :O Oct 27 20:14:39 my p0 and p1 both came w/ openmoko installed.. Oct 27 20:15:04 gabaug: odd Oct 27 20:15:16 lol SpeedEvil i was about to say huh.... Oct 27 20:15:27 may have just been batch 1 of p1 that didnt Oct 27 20:15:27 gabaug: all other people that have reported have said that P1 came with a kernel but no rootfs Oct 27 20:15:53 wait, maybe not p1....the second phone they gave p0 people Oct 27 20:15:57 == p1? Oct 27 20:15:58 Even recent ones - IIRC a guy (or a girl (could be an ewok even)) last couple of weeks. Oct 27 20:16:15 The p0 units came pre-installed; I hope you saved that software image somewhere (it has a driver on it that you can't get anywhere else). The official p1 units did not have a rootfs. Oct 27 20:16:39 mwester: why on earth are they not shipping the driver? Oct 27 20:17:02 licensing reasons AFAIK Oct 27 20:17:03 gabaug: damn EULA has to be written for it Oct 27 20:17:25 so, sending it to 30-50 people was fine..? Oct 27 20:17:35 lol that was an acciendet Oct 27 20:17:40 Long story. unfortunate corporate merger of a supplier, lawyers, then the choice to switch OABI/EABI, then more *&@^$ lawyers, and so it goes. Oct 27 20:17:58 are there longs threads on the ml's about this? Oct 27 20:18:04 everywhere Oct 27 20:18:05 Yep. Oct 27 20:18:06 heh Oct 27 20:18:19 jees, guess I haven't been following them closely enough (eg at all) Oct 27 20:18:21 and at the moment the ball is in om's court Oct 27 20:18:31 om == openomoko? Oct 27 20:18:34 * CoreDump pets his P0 =D Oct 27 20:18:35 yup Oct 27 20:18:53 Yep. How much money can they give to the money-sucking lawyer to get him to spend time to write the EULA? Oct 27 20:19:18 jees, wtf, that is so messed up, this project has some serious issues Oct 27 20:19:44 mwester-laptop: give him a bag of coal for xmas at this rate Oct 27 20:19:44 (like not being able to make calls on a cell phone....7 months after it's semi-public) Oct 27 20:19:57 i can make calls on it Oct 27 20:19:59 gabaug, no - this happens to many many companies too -- it's just all concealed when companies have these problems. Oct 27 20:20:06 not particularly well but i can Oct 27 20:20:20 the joy of opensource :) Oct 27 20:20:23 is there a way to check if you have whatever driver this is? Oct 27 20:20:42 I remember a project where a key component was changed at the last minute for no other reason than the *#$%& lawyers couldn't agree on something. Oct 27 20:20:52 ls /home/root/gps/gllin Oct 27 20:23:00 xzcvczx: that file has to do w/ makings calls? (appears to be GPS related..) Oct 27 20:23:28 it is gps Oct 27 20:23:31 not gsm Oct 27 20:23:48 I thought you said there was a driver needed to for gsm/to make calls? Oct 27 20:24:15 nope Oct 27 20:24:50 No, the driver is for GPS. The gsm modem is a serial device. We could use some documentation for that, but the basics are working. Oct 27 20:25:09 lol check out AT%EM mode Oct 27 20:25:16 ok, blog post almost done. will add some pictures to it and then post it tomorrow. Oct 27 20:25:20 can be rather fun to look at all the crap there Oct 27 20:25:22 04:25 here, g'night guys Oct 27 20:25:28 lol night mickey-tw Oct 27 20:25:36 i hate the word blog Oct 27 20:25:43 and i dunno how the person worked out so much about AT%EM Oct 27 20:25:43 well if i want the neo version how muxh does it cost with shipment charges i live in india Oct 27 20:26:14 dhq: use ups to find out its a 2ounce box for the basic Oct 27 20:26:46 xzcvczx, i dint understand Oct 27 20:27:11 google ups shipment and look there Oct 27 20:27:38 xzcvczx, does it have wifi Oct 27 20:27:41 AT%EM is int he calypso at command spec Oct 27 20:27:50 dhq: current one no Oct 27 20:28:00 ljp: ah ok Oct 27 20:28:11 :) Oct 27 20:28:11 xzcvczx, when will wifi be supported Oct 27 20:28:17 dhq: topic! Oct 27 20:28:25 dhq: there is no hardware in the current device. Oct 27 20:28:49 SpeedEvil: lol then its not really a device is it Oct 27 20:29:04 how is the cell Oct 27 20:29:06 for use Oct 27 20:29:28 koredn: no wifi Oct 27 20:29:50 dhq: qtopia seems to work fine. OM is getting better Oct 27 20:30:05 ljp: where can you get the calypso command spec? Oct 27 20:30:08 well i wanted wifi also :( Oct 27 20:30:23 xzcvczx: for TI with a NDA Oct 27 20:30:26 from Oct 27 20:30:47 ljp: lol rather funny it ending up on the wiki then :S Oct 27 20:31:19 i doubt its fully documented onthe wiki Oct 27 20:31:33 its reasonably well documetned Oct 27 20:31:40 url? Oct 27 20:31:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem Oct 27 20:33:16 I dont see any documentation for em mode Oct 27 20:33:34 %EM? cannot find it anywhere besides the AT+CLAC output Oct 27 20:34:10 well its definately there Oct 27 20:34:13 %em has lots of goodness. Oct 27 20:34:16 are there bin-only drivers for the gta01 GPS yet? Oct 27 20:34:25 try F5 Oct 27 20:34:26 For example, you can get the nearby cells and their signal strengths. Oct 27 20:34:35 hozer: no Oct 27 20:34:52 hozer: yes. To obtain them, you need to find the right lawyer, and apply a small hammer. Oct 27 20:34:53 bleh.. gta02 has a different GPS now, right? Oct 27 20:34:57 hozer: yes Oct 27 20:35:14 SpeedEvil: f a small hammer..... jackhammer more like it Oct 27 20:35:16 ah.. engineering mode.. now it got it Oct 27 20:35:24 roh: ;) Oct 27 20:35:48 but nope.. i cannot comment on that right away.. but yes, there is documentation about it from ti Oct 27 20:36:04 small hammer? They enjoy that. It's hard to torment a lawyer as they are so closely related to the devil himself. Oct 27 20:36:24 well. i can comment, but not read or give the doc to you Oct 27 20:36:28 xzcvczx: actually, I was surprised at how fast and easy TI came up with the at specs for Trolltech. didnt even have to beg. They even said they were suprised the neo used the calypso Oct 27 20:36:55 company vs the general public Oct 27 20:36:56 * xzcvczx begs roh :P Oct 27 20:37:44 guaqua: depends on the company being asked. ATI and TI are usually the most secretive Oct 27 20:37:50 ljp well.. its not really a recent document Oct 27 20:38:15 roh: perhaps thats why Oct 27 20:38:17 random thought of the day: the neo has half the ram of the ps3 Oct 27 20:38:21 it must be somewhere on google then Oct 27 20:38:31 xzcvczx: nope Oct 27 20:38:43 eh s/document/product Oct 27 20:39:30 still, through my 6 years in embedded linux, TI is usually secret Oct 27 20:41:26 jap Oct 27 20:43:32 is there a way to verify my SIM is inserted correctly/recognized, like query what provider it's from, #'s stored on it, etc? Oct 27 20:44:12 gabaug: the gsm modem page and manually using gsm will help with that Oct 27 21:10:27 I'm getting +CME ERROR: 10 (SIM not found) -- anybody know if this can happen if the SIM is locked or for other reasons, not just if it's incorrectly inserted? Oct 27 21:16:58 !ombug 666 Oct 27 21:16:58 * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Oct 27 21:16:59 * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability Oct 27 21:17:01 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Oct 27 21:17:13 evil bug Oct 27 21:18:22 haha Oct 27 21:18:35 3G is indeed evil Oct 27 21:18:49 heh Oct 27 21:30:47 this is odd... do_unpack for linux-2.6.21 is failing now, saying it can't find defconfig Oct 27 21:32:16 lysanderslair: thanks Oct 27 21:37:18 np Oct 27 21:41:34 wow, judging by the battery life of my p990, a neo with no pm would beat it Oct 27 21:41:56 cb22: my p910i is fairly sucky as well Oct 27 21:42:16 no, but the p990 is a piece of shit... Oct 27 21:42:25 i used it for 3 hours Oct 27 21:42:25 and lost 60% battery life Oct 27 21:44:14 i just replaced the p910i with a treo 680, and i'm a little disappointed with its battery life too. Oct 27 21:44:39 the best battery life i've expirenced was on a winmobile phone Oct 27 21:44:52 that saddens me :( Oct 27 21:45:13 where each ep of southpark i watched only took away 3% Oct 27 21:45:22 thats like 3% for 23 minutes of video Oct 27 21:45:30 or about 11 hours total Oct 27 21:45:34 of video watching Oct 27 21:51:52 what fonts are build into xfbdev Oct 27 21:52:12 I'm trying to create a test app which uses 9x15 on a normal x server, but xfbdev doesnot have it Oct 27 21:52:34 bye Oct 27 22:12:22 meh, ipkg upgrade b0rked my install :\ Oct 28 00:45:50 hmm, quite a few inexpensive cellphone screens for sale on ebay Oct 28 00:49:31 beauty of mass production Oct 28 00:50:37 aye, now to find some online info on how they can be hooked up to stuff Oct 28 00:52:27 lame: no space left on device Oct 28 00:53:12 lol time to ipkg remove goatse.cx-archives Oct 28 00:53:25 i wish it were that easy Oct 28 00:54:29 im down to 2.7 mb free and thats with gpsd Oct 28 00:55:18 time for some policy changes in the openmoko camp i think. Oct 28 00:55:26 definitely things are getting screwed up more than they are improving. Oct 28 00:55:34 hrrm.. how is gpsd working? Oct 28 00:55:52 * hozer has been out of the loop for a bit Oct 28 00:56:15 i made a call with the latest openmoko image last night, for the first time since i got the neo 2 months ago Oct 28 00:56:20 worked okay Oct 28 00:56:25 can't get gprs working though .. Oct 28 00:57:10 torpor: Don't say that too loud, you might get more than you asked for Oct 28 00:57:24 really? like what? Oct 28 00:57:37 hrrm.. I didn't have trouble making calls with images I built from a few weeks ago Oct 28 00:57:43 receiving didn't seem to work so well though ;) Oct 28 00:58:02 PM was broken. The neo would wake up on an incoming call, but not trigger an incoming call dialog Oct 28 00:58:17 good point, i did not test that. ran out of disk space trying to install settingsGUI Oct 28 00:58:46 hozer: its not just got gps for programming purposes Oct 28 00:59:02 to be honest i have to wonder if the openmoko project is being funded to give poor-linux-tools some big press, so people can say 'told you so, linux blows' about the whole embedded thing .. Oct 28 01:01:41 if it blew then no one would be using it Oct 28 01:02:56 i know that. but the point is, all the open-source hype, and things are not improving. Oct 28 01:03:49 that'd be an internal issue with openmoko then Oct 28 01:04:01 there are other phone developers heavily into linux without problems Oct 28 01:04:11 i hope something is done about it, because its a hard sell to show someone an open source phone that doesn't work. Oct 28 01:05:12 torpor: would you prefer something that works but has to be rewritten every 2 months as its not done properly Oct 28 01:05:57 i don't believe that if something works, it needs to be re-written. Oct 28 01:06:19 write it properly the first time, make it work. don't take so long doing it because you're unsure if its wrong or right. Oct 28 01:06:33 torpor: that implies that openmoko is written improperly as oppsosed to simply incomplete Oct 28 01:06:51 opposed* Oct 28 01:07:02 i would argue that, 3 months after the release, with thousands of idle hackers, 'slightly incomplete' means more than just not done yet... Oct 28 01:08:22 what does it mean then? Oct 28 01:08:25 torpor: No matter how you turn it - it just is impossible to lift such a massive project without a decent amount of people. OpenMoko just didn't have that till now and the people that do work for OM work their asses off. You really can't blame these people for OpenMoko's current state. If you want to blame anyone, blame FIC for not providing enough initial funding to get the project on its feet. Oct 28 01:08:36 it means that the decisions being made are getting in the way of developer progress Oct 28 01:09:10 its a company Oct 28 01:09:39 abraxa_: i'm not actually blaming anyone in particular, because there is nobody to blame. what openmoko needs is leadership that is visible and active enough that idle developers can kick in and be used as a resource. i think there isn't enough focus on this, and this is why we get cross-lines .. Oct 28 01:10:41 torpor: I agree. That is a problem indeed. Sean was hoping he could fulfill that role but with him being the one in charge of way too many things this fell through... which again brings me back to my point: staff was needed. Oct 28 01:10:49 Yeah. Oct 28 01:10:53 i know 3 openmoko hackers in my area. 1 (me) is actively trying to put code on the phone. the other 2 guys gave up in frustration and laugh whenever the neo is booted up, only to discover that calls aren't working, or that the root filesystem is stuffed full and still does not work. Oct 28 01:11:19 or that gps doesn't work. Oct 28 01:11:20 etc. Oct 28 01:11:51 And me? I'm trying to build an isolated SDK Oct 28 01:12:01 how will that work? Oct 28 01:12:08 torpor: Those people who give up shouldn't have bought a phone, sorry. Oct 28 01:12:19 i've considered chucking openmoko off the neo1973 and going all gp2x on the thing .. Oct 28 01:12:27 RPMs, crossarm-packagename.rpm and -devel.rpm for each Oct 28 01:12:45 Build using those, and make ipkg at the end Oct 28 01:12:48 abraxa_: i disagree with you entirely. they bought the phone knowing there'd be problems. they're justified in their position now that 3 months have passed. Oct 28 01:13:17 anyway i gotta really stop moaning about this issue and just get on with it. Oct 28 01:13:27 pretty much ;) Oct 28 01:13:36 those that can't code, complain ;) Oct 28 01:13:46 but I will complain a little about the build infrastructure ;) Oct 28 01:13:47 torpor: rome wasnt built in 3 months :P Oct 28 01:13:49 so anyone got any recommendations for how to fix the disk problem? i've got a mostly empty 512meg SD card in there .. is there some ipkg voodoo that can be done to move stuff over to the emptier filesystem easily enough? Oct 28 01:14:02 at least the last time I did a 'make setup update ' it succeeded Oct 28 01:14:25 torpor -l or something i think Oct 28 01:14:41 there is a way Oct 28 01:15:34 torpor: search ipkg on wiki' Oct 28 01:25:37 Aria: btw, you might have seen the URL in the channel before but just to make sure you took note of it: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ might assist you in your pursue Oct 28 01:25:59 abraxa_: Yeah, kinda. It'd be a shortcut. Oct 28 01:34:24 ack, om/neo1973 related dreams i think i need to get out more **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 28 02:46:32 2007 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 28 02:52:55 2007 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 28 02:59:57 2007