**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 28 02:59:57 2007 Oct 28 04:44:25 moin! Oct 28 04:45:10 So, how long do I need to leave my battery out to recover a locked up machine? Oct 28 04:46:06 20mins Oct 28 04:47:15 ouch. It's been several hours and still no backlight after holding power button for four seconds. Oct 28 04:47:40 Should I prepare bell, book, and candle? Oct 28 04:47:49 and a blacxk chicken! Oct 28 04:48:35 did you remove batter, remove USB and then wait 20mins and then put in battery and then attach USB and then try to power on? Oct 28 04:48:44 Yes. Oct 28 04:49:03 Haven't reflashed; was working this morning. Oct 28 04:50:17 and nothing happens when you poer on? Oct 28 04:50:52 nothing; not even the subtle backlight turn-on. Oct 28 04:51:04 Doesn't help to hold the option button while booting either. Oct 28 04:51:22 then do the following: remover battery, wait 20min, then put battery back in, attach to USB and wait for an other 20min and then try power on Oct 28 04:52:04 I've already done something like that, but I'll try doing exactly that again. Oct 28 04:52:16 I have been through that hell Oct 28 04:52:54 I have extended the timeframes, but does exactly that. at some point in time it will work again. Oct 28 04:53:27 if it does not work the first time, go to 30mins, then even to 60mins for both steps. Oct 28 04:54:02 it sucks that the neo does not draw 100mA all the time via USB Oct 28 04:54:22 Thanks ... I'll try that. Oct 28 04:55:50 any news on GPS? Oct 28 05:02:02 hhf423: There will be dancing in the streets; and great rejoicing everywhere (including this IRC channel) when that event might occur. So, no. No update. Oct 28 05:03:13 lol Oct 28 05:03:25 ha, well. its still a little bit until chrismas Oct 28 05:05:39 * mwester has an idle thought, and does some math: assume 3000 P1's shipped. assume .tw cost for a bluetooth GPS is $30. It would cost Openmoko $9000 to give each Neo owner a bluetooth GPS instead of whatever they have spent on getting the blasted driver working, plus what it has cost for the lawyers with the contracts... Oct 28 05:07:11 I'd love to read Harald's memoirs, should he ever publish such a book. I'm betting the GPS chip is one of the biggest debacles in the GTA01. Oct 28 05:16:21 right Oct 28 05:16:37 but I do not want a GPS outside of the neo, I want a GPS inside of the neo Oct 28 05:16:48 * hhf423 oogles at the new K850i Oct 28 05:29:45 meh, sony Oct 28 05:36:54 *gnnn* Oct 28 05:37:23 * roh got lost in the yearly log in, check, update, fix broken foo, ignore again admin-hassle Oct 28 06:04:27 * hhf423 yawns Oct 28 06:15:00 So what's the issue with the GPS other than the fact that it requires software support? Oct 28 06:55:38 nelson: from what I understand, the issue is that there is no EULA for the driver yet. Oct 28 09:13:58 anyone knows the procedure to change to recentrly added qvga mode? Oct 28 09:14:17 s/recentrly/recently/ Oct 28 09:14:17 jeddy3 meant: anyone knows the procedure to change to recently added qvga mode? Oct 28 09:16:56 JOIN openmoko-devel Oct 28 09:17:15 hi Oct 28 09:17:22 10:18 -!- Cannot join to channel #openmoko-devel (Bad channel key) Oct 28 09:19:39 hmmm, wonder if it'd be possible to hook this baby up to a Neo? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=637 Oct 28 09:23:58 sers Oct 28 09:34:16 Stephmw: possible, but a bit funky. what would be better is to just use this: http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2203p072id114494.htm Oct 28 09:34:28 or something like it.. Oct 28 09:35:40 bit on the bulky side :) I found this online too, but way too expensive, http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/mini-spy-camera-stick.html Oct 28 09:35:58 * Stephmw is thinking of a gsm+gps+camera cat-cam Oct 28 09:36:15 Get a big cat. Oct 28 09:36:16 well i'm sure that there are smaller and smaller bluetooth camera modules on the horizon, if not already around and available right now.. Oct 28 09:36:24 and bluetooth works pretty damn well on the neo .. Oct 28 09:37:22 it does? Oct 28 09:37:28 evolution on this, then: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/06/06/cat-has-camera-on-co.html Oct 28 09:37:37 * mickey-tw will get a _real_ neo soon Oct 28 09:37:41 mickey-tw, I think it does. If you don't want the wake-on-bt ;) Oct 28 09:37:48 mjr: yeah, pretty much Oct 28 09:38:21 morgen Oct 28 09:38:38 mjr: and you only want very short range. Oct 28 09:39:21 SpeedEvil: current cat is non-negotiable :) Oct 28 09:48:19 mickey-tw, does openmoko-devel-image build for you? Oct 28 09:48:29 no idea, sorry Oct 28 09:48:35 i have been distracted with meetings since i'm here in .tw Oct 28 09:48:42 ah, ok Oct 28 09:48:52 i can issue a build from scratch in the office tomorrow Oct 28 09:50:18 dbench fails to install... but i've disabled it for now Oct 28 09:50:35 mjr: on top of that camera module, there's a wealth of cheap-ish cellphone spare camera parts on ebay Oct 28 10:00:00 Can someone plz help me, when I start the Dialer, it shows me the message "Not connected to network current status = Waiting for network registration" instead of asking me for my PIN :( I have already edit the /etc/matchbox/session file but I've got still the same problem ;( Oct 28 10:04:50 mickey-tw: i've been using bluetooth with my neo all week. no the range does not suck. i can use the bt wireless keyboard from apple with the neo from about 20 meters away. this is really impressive actually. i've become a bluetooth fan, and am setting up a permanent bt/pand network in my house to substitute for no wlan in the neo .. for my needs this shall suffice .. Oct 28 10:05:13 cool. glad to hear that Oct 28 10:07:16 :) Oct 28 10:10:56 @all: can someone help me please? How do I make neo to ask me for my PIN, it don't aks for it when I starts the dialer. Oct 28 10:38:10 re Oct 28 10:39:30 looks like my dummy spit about the clock being too small and next to useless (I think others commented along the same lines too) has been heard http://chrislord.net/images/openmoko-today2.png Oct 28 10:41:10 torpor: I wonder what class device the NEO BT chipset is, ie class 2 is about 10 meters class 1 is now 100 meters Oct 28 10:41:18 2 Oct 28 10:42:57 mwester: ping Oct 28 10:43:28 GTA02 will be great and the GTA03 will be the God phone heh Oct 28 10:43:41 One phone to rule them all Oct 28 10:45:19 Linux_Galore_: yeah i'm running this image right now and its great to have a useful clock in the neo Oct 28 10:45:44 but i'm not sure how to change the background .. Oct 28 10:46:06 torpor: well my philosphy is if you have something on the screen it should be functional and readable. putting a clock in the tittle was neither Oct 28 10:46:09 maybe just look for all pngs or so and change them? Oct 28 10:46:48 Linux_Galore_: there's value in a small clock as long as it's not the primary representation of time Oct 28 10:46:55 Linux_Galore_: during a call for instance Oct 28 10:47:27 Stephmw: well the clock should be on the home screen Oct 28 10:47:42 incidentally, this is the way my W880i does things... LARGE clock on idle screen, small status clock during calls and in menus Oct 28 10:47:43 i'd say this clock is perfectly functional. all thats needed now is a way to set an alarm and give it a sound for playback. Oct 28 10:47:45 then vary depending on what your doing Oct 28 10:47:50 Linux_Galore_: ^^ Oct 28 10:48:48 in my opinion whats needed is a far better 'app is starting' cursor/display. its very difficult to maintain stability on the phone right now when you start an app and are not sure if its loading or not. Oct 28 10:48:51 Stephmw: my HTC tytn II is the same, home screen has a big clock then it becomes a minor thing on other screens Oct 28 10:49:08 it would be good also if some apps were written to be singletons - i.e. would only allow themselves to be launched once. like settingsgui for example. Oct 28 10:49:16 Yup. Oct 28 10:49:20 and the dialler. Oct 28 10:49:34 i'm sure there's a mechanism for doing this, but its just not a priority for some reason. Oct 28 10:50:42 dialler is a priority Oct 28 10:53:54 any ideas if we have a UX designer on the OM team? Oct 28 11:12:00 torpor, a nice app is starting thing would be the spinny ajax circle thing IMO Oct 28 11:22:32 cb22: i don't know it, got a URL? i've been ignoring web app development, coz i think its lame. ;) Oct 28 11:26:59 hehe Oct 28 11:27:03 you know in FF Oct 28 11:27:09 the little spinny thingy Oct 28 11:27:22 i'll get a link now Oct 28 11:27:28 i don't use ff Oct 28 11:28:24 http://www.ajaxload.info/ Oct 28 11:28:48 then click on the combo box Oct 28 11:29:41 ah pretty good Oct 28 11:29:51 quite ubuntu'like Oct 28 11:29:59 yeah Oct 28 11:30:09 i guess that openmoko has something like this, but its sort of borked or disabled in the current build or something .. Oct 28 11:30:48 probably Oct 28 11:40:28 interesting, prpplague commented on that sparkfun camera module... Oct 28 11:40:56 !seen prpplague Oct 28 11:40:56 prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 2 days, 16 hours, 30 minutes ago stating ({"Leaving"}). Oct 28 11:56:04 Does any one know what Channel Chris Lord happens to hang out in? Oct 28 11:57:51 how is the neo `s suspend doing .. when will we be able to use it with a full suspend resume cicle ? Oct 28 12:12:20 hi Oct 28 12:17:08 somebody into providing some help to a newbie? Oct 28 12:18:01 * * OM Bug 965 has been created by douglas.furlong(AT)gmail.com Oct 28 12:18:02 * * Tme widget/appllet Placement Oct 28 12:18:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=965 Oct 28 12:21:00 stynx, i'm a newbie too Oct 28 12:21:10 but what do you wnat to know? Oct 28 12:21:35 hi, nice to meet jou fellow newbie ;) Oct 28 12:21:49 Did anyone think of making/porting some kind of budget tracking application to OM? Oct 28 12:22:20 I probably broke the thingie by following these instructions: Oct 28 12:22:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ipkg Oct 28 12:22:53 And I need to know if this is fixable, or a 'need to reflash' : Oct 28 12:23:10 root@fic-gta01:/etc/ipkg$ ipkg update Oct 28 12:23:10 ipkg: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference Oct 28 12:23:10 root@fic-gta01:/etc/ipkg$ Oct 28 12:23:14 ? Oct 28 12:24:22 I'm talking about the neo1973 btw Oct 28 12:28:25 I've got my answher I'm afraid, kernel panic with reboot Oct 28 12:30:51 Another question, is the Wiki (wiki.openmoko.org/wiki) a good source for documentation about flashing and updating? Or is there a betterplace to look for (rtf) manuals? Oct 28 12:30:56 stynx: fwiw i set up another ipkg on sd card and it works great; but i use ipkg-link mount Oct 28 12:31:08 wiki is fine Oct 28 12:31:20 ask q's here if needed Oct 28 12:31:39 not about this update, wondering what went wrong, but i'm to late now to find out ;( Oct 28 12:31:51 thanks torpor for the tip Oct 28 12:32:36 did you move your libs dir around or something, or hack with .profile to add a path to ld_config_path or something like that? Oct 28 12:32:44 noop Oct 28 12:32:52 you should get used to flashing frequently, btw.. things are changing with openmoko almost daily .. Oct 28 12:32:55 i flash almost every day Oct 28 12:33:00 only thing I did was make it route trhough my laptop Oct 28 12:33:12 Owkee, than lets learn to flash Oct 28 12:33:15 and have installed the 'important' stuff on SD card now, too, so i can survive a flash and still have my needed apps. Oct 28 12:33:35 thats a good one ;) Oct 28 12:33:44 btw, its really a good idea to have an external SD ipkg repository, because the default image is almost full .. Oct 28 12:34:51 I will set it up after I've learned to and survived the flashing Oct 28 12:34:58 This one is ok: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Oct 28 12:35:01 ? Oct 28 12:35:32 sure Oct 28 12:35:51 Thanks, also not clear, I do not need to update u-boot, do I? Oct 28 12:36:49 you should, but to be clear: it depends how old yours is. Oct 28 12:37:01 and if you do the u-boot update you gotta erase the full nand first. see the wiki. Oct 28 12:37:14 it requires setting up the usbserial console so you can tell uboot what to do.. Oct 28 12:37:25 yes I see, but the debug board is not over here ;( Oct 28 12:38:00 you don't need it to erase the nand .. you use uboots builtin serial console that operates over usb Oct 28 12:38:05 but check the wiki about this first, please. Oct 28 12:38:31 I'm reading Oct 28 12:50:45 owkee, I got a mountpoint usbfs, dfu-util on laptop. Now I need to download the images for the neo1973 Oct 28 12:51:50 Also over here a warning aboutflashing the u-boot: Oct 28 12:51:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util Oct 28 12:53:52 A BV4 fone is a phase 1 phone? Oct 28 13:15:12 stynx: Yep Oct 28 13:16:29 re Oct 28 13:41:24 thanks abraxa_ Oct 28 13:41:50 Seemed to have flashed the thingie and booted ok :-) Oct 28 13:42:24 Good job :) Oct 28 13:43:14 Thanks, for everything there's a first time. Looks totaly different. Oct 28 13:45:45 Other question: that upper bar, with battery, network, etc. Is that an application? Oct 28 13:46:08 It seems so, it's gone now, after flashing, but dunno Oct 28 13:46:46 it is quite buggy and thus crashes most of the time... Oct 28 13:48:30 stynx: Yes, that's the matchbox-panel application Oct 28 13:48:53 And yes, one of the panel applets makes it crash - that bug has yet to be found and fixed Oct 28 13:49:11 Ah wokee Oct 28 13:51:24 Its fun, and I'm glad its running again :) Oct 28 13:51:54 Not my phone, boss dropped it on my desk (at lunch) here, see what you can do with it. uhhh Oct 28 13:52:38 abraxa_ can you please tell me what lines you have in your ipkg/base-feed.conf? Oct 28 13:53:07 re Oct 28 13:54:51 stynx: I have no base-feed.conf as a matter of fact Oct 28 13:54:56 And hiho mickey :) Oct 28 13:55:05 servus Oct 28 13:55:17 so, stefan and daniel on their way back Oct 28 13:55:31 And you follow the next couple days? Oct 28 13:55:33 ah Oct 28 13:55:38 yep, leaving in two days Oct 28 13:55:53 I bet your wife will be happy :) Oct 28 13:56:32 stynx: Do you have troubles with ipkg or why are you asking? Oct 28 13:56:55 abraxa_: she will. she misses me. Oct 28 13:57:18 which is a good thing, i think :) Oct 28 13:57:36 mickey-tw: Definitely - I know the feeling just as well Oct 28 13:58:16 this year, i've been travelling more than in my entire life before Oct 28 13:58:26 absolutely insane, i need to stop that Oct 28 13:58:35 And now it makes sense to me why you were up so late last night - with Stefan and Daniel leaving I'm sure you wanted to make this night fun =) Oct 28 13:58:53 abraxa_: hehe, right Oct 28 13:59:22 abraxa_ I've had troubles with ipkg this morning, made me to need to flash the phone agian Oct 28 14:00:16 stynx: Ah okay. Let me know if there's anything you need a hand with Oct 28 14:00:37 used the wiki links (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ipkg) and ended up with glibc errors and an unusable phone Oct 28 14:00:51 Thanks abraxa_ , will keep in mind. :-) Oct 28 14:01:42 I'm into trying it again, no I know that flashing is not as scary a I thought. (it is, still, but it works ;) Oct 28 14:02:12 mickey-tw: btw, if you feel like meeting again sometime... I'd be up for it :) Oct 28 14:02:33 abraxa_: oh absolutely, are you back in germany? Oct 28 14:02:54 mickey-tw: Been since Oct 5th, yeah Oct 28 14:03:17 abraxa_: cool. give me some time to get my life back on track and lets aim for something in two weeks or so Oct 28 14:03:53 mickey-tw: Sure thing - the girl always comes first ;) Oct 28 14:04:40 stynx: Yup, as long as you don't flash u-boot you aren't risking anything so you can do whatever you want - even flash Qtopia ;p Oct 28 14:06:09 hehe, I must confess, I thougt about that a moment this morning ;) Oct 28 14:06:58 abraxa_ But I wont do at this moment, its running now, so back to playtime Oct 28 14:38:50 abraxa_ You are living in germany? Oct 28 14:42:05 stynx: Yeppers Oct 28 14:42:36 abraxa_ :) Than you've had the same clock settings tonight? (I live in holland) Oct 28 14:42:44 Yeup :) Oct 28 14:44:01 * CoreDump hates DST Oct 28 14:44:13 abraxa_ Waking up with daylight now for a vew weks, thats nice Oct 28 14:45:20 where abouts stynx? Oct 28 14:45:25 i used to live close to holland .. Oct 28 14:45:36 have many dutch friends Oct 28 14:45:41 torpor Rotterdam, working in Delft Oct 28 14:45:44 and only a couple german ones. ;) Oct 28 14:45:46 i see. Oct 28 14:45:53 good friend of mine lives in den haag. Oct 28 14:45:59 used to visit quite a lot Oct 28 14:46:00 I do have a German friend, but he lives in holland now Oct 28 14:46:08 and i have family in hellofoetslaus .. Oct 28 14:46:36 where do you work that your boss hands out neos? Oct 28 14:46:57 torpor that is not that far away from here. When cycling I sometimes go to hellvoetsluis Oct 28 14:47:17 One neo ;) Fox-it (.com) Oct 28 14:47:20 boring place really. like most of holland. Oct 28 14:47:42 Sometimes, indeed. Rotterdam is ot that boring ;) Oct 28 14:47:56 can't really remember rotterdam much .. Oct 28 14:48:17 but anyway .. glad you got your moko running. now write some apps, and let them not just be boring IT security apps! :) Oct 28 14:48:29 humzz.. gegege Oct 28 14:49:11 I'm tot start with more interested to have it running, and than maybe apps and/or encryption Oct 28 14:49:34 Running, and behaving well seems a priority ;) Oct 28 14:49:36 write a bluetooth sniffer for it. Oct 28 14:51:31 Will talk about it. But now my boss only want to know if it works.. Euhhrr.. yes if you are a player. Depending on what you understand about working ;) Oct 28 14:51:55 I'm still wondering if updating will kill it again Oct 28 14:51:55 show him openmoko working (it does) and then show him qtopia working. that should shut him up. Oct 28 14:52:08 Thats a good idea gege Oct 28 14:52:10 and don't forget to show him regular updates, because thats whats happening with the project right now: changing frequently. Oct 28 14:52:40 i have no clue how you goofed it up before, it doesn't really make much sense. unless your uboot is quite old and you ran into the overlapping kernel/filesystem problem. it could be that. Oct 28 14:53:11 And I need to tell him I need a dedicated Linux ws, or more time at home to play (eeurrhh work) with it Oct 28 14:53:45 Maybe, but uboot cant't be that old, I assume Oct 28 14:54:09 bad assumption. it could be. there were early bugs with uboot that got stomped on quickly. Oct 28 14:54:29 How do I check? Oct 28 14:54:50 get into the uboot console .. hold aux+power on boot. Oct 28 14:54:51 this thing is a gta01 Oct 28 14:54:56 then read the wiki Oct 28 14:55:19 there are only gta01's in the general public right now, so unless otherwise stated, consider us all gta01 users in here. Oct 28 14:55:23 still open on 3 tabs ;) Oct 28 14:55:31 owkee Oct 28 14:57:02 over here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Oct 28 14:57:19 I cant see 'check uboot version' Oct 28 14:57:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot Oct 28 14:57:53 damn .. I'm sorry Oct 28 15:07:29 ah, probably pretty old 'U-boot 1.2.0-moko9_r8_ etc Mau 19 2007) Oct 28 15:08:31 so .. get into console, do a NAND erase, re-install. Oct 28 15:08:41 from that point on things should be a bit safer. Oct 28 15:09:18 That would be nice. How serious are all these warnings about not doing this unless you have a debug baord at hand? Oct 28 15:11:40 serious... Oct 28 15:12:06 and rightly so Oct 28 15:12:41 k, taking that serious. And waiting till tomorrow evening, I will bring it home with me Oct 28 15:12:47 It would be wise to only use an already tested u-boot image Oct 28 15:13:06 that sounds very reasonable Oct 28 15:13:33 g'night Oct 28 15:13:49 n8 mickey-tw Oct 28 15:13:58 its not *that* difficult to screw it up. i'd say do it now, as the worst that can happen is that you will have to wait until tomorrow to de-brick it. Oct 28 15:13:59 n8 Oct 28 15:13:59 fwiw, the 2007.08 snapshot uboot is the last known good as far as I'm concerned Oct 28 15:14:35 Thanks Oct 28 15:15:58 and thats probably somewhere else than in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ Oct 28 15:15:58 ;) Oct 28 15:38:49 1582 of 5029 gogogo!! Oct 28 15:39:12 heh, making devel-image? Oct 28 15:39:20 yes Oct 28 15:39:27 on my laptop Oct 28 15:40:18 seems you have som hours to go then :p Oct 28 15:40:24 make qemu-* dont work Oct 28 15:40:31 oh yeah Oct 28 15:40:32 oh? Oct 28 15:40:40 what error? Oct 28 15:41:01 some problem discribt in bugzilla Oct 28 15:41:07 ok Oct 28 15:41:08 with gutsy Oct 28 15:41:28 not enough experience with openmoko to fix it Oct 28 15:41:58 ah, I just upgraded my desktop, but my buildbox is still feisty. Oct 28 15:42:05 hehe Oct 28 15:42:14 atm i have no buildbox Oct 28 15:42:42 i live @grandma while doing my practical semester Oct 28 15:42:42 the laptop will do just fine :) Oct 28 15:42:56 only 1.76GHz Oct 28 15:43:02 practical? what do you practise? Oct 28 15:43:30 i need to work half a year for my study Oct 28 15:43:39 i m at nokia in bochum Oct 28 15:43:59 1.76GHz will du just fine on a sunday ;) Oct 28 15:44:13 yes and its getting cold outside ;) Oct 28 15:44:16 ah, like an internship? Oct 28 15:44:23 no Oct 28 15:44:28 i study in germany Oct 28 15:44:32 ok Oct 28 15:44:37 we have to do it Oct 28 15:44:55 nice to work there? Oct 28 15:45:02 i dont know if there is sth like this in other countries Oct 28 15:45:07 yeah great Oct 28 15:45:18 i love it Oct 28 15:46:13 youll have to do some openmoko campaining then :p Oct 28 15:46:24 hehe Oct 28 15:46:54 i have to watch out that no nokia employee see me in here ;) Oct 28 15:47:04 hehe :D Oct 28 15:47:15 n810 is great but has no gsm, umts stack Oct 28 15:47:33 an thats why i buy a OM Oct 28 15:47:56 and OM is cheaper :D Oct 28 15:49:50 :) Oct 28 15:50:02 is there any sound recording app available in the feeds? Oct 28 15:50:19 hm. don't know :/ Oct 28 15:51:12 arecord ;) Oct 28 16:03:55 why is the battery-model named GTC-01/GTA-01 - is there an other fic device using it? - what does GTA stand for anyway? Oct 28 16:04:57 er Oct 28 16:07:29 gamin: i am working on one. Oct 28 16:07:36 playya: i used to live in recklinghausen Oct 28 16:07:41 abraxa_: thanks for the tip. I tried arecord, but records only silence. May be some wrong setting on alsamixer... Oct 28 16:07:41 5 mins from bochum Oct 28 16:07:57 yeah i know Oct 28 16:08:08 you do? Oct 28 16:08:33 we talked about it before, or .. ? Oct 28 16:08:34 is live in gelsenkirchen Oct 28 16:08:39 no Oct 28 16:08:58 i know that recklinghausen is near bochum Oct 28 16:10:42 has anybody tried gpe-soundbite for recording? Oct 28 16:13:23 gamin: Well, arecord uses ALSA directly so it might collide with PulseAudio which does the same Oct 28 16:14:08 abraxa_pulseaudio is shutdown here as I currently use madplay (don't beat me :-) Oct 28 16:15:29 Well, in that case I can only say: try the two capture*.state files or have fun with the mixer settings ;) Oct 28 16:16:53 what i wonder is if it going to be possible to record calls, and play back audio files mid-call .. Oct 28 16:17:18 then we could make a nice python based IVR system for some customer support apps that run directly on the phone .. this is something that linux would do very well with, since no other phones can do it. Oct 28 16:23:18 torpor: Definitely Oct 28 16:23:28 (in the US) recording calls is very consult-a-lawyer-first if you don't have consent Oct 28 16:23:38 for any reason Oct 28 16:27:27 yeah but just coz the US is so, doesn't mean it has to be so for the rest of us. and we can definitely sort that problem out as well by including disclaimers, etc. Oct 28 16:32:05 torpor: hmm..i kinda have that in the pipeline, binding gsm now, wanna help? Oct 28 16:33:58 Sup3rkiddo: would love to! i'm going to finish the bluetooth panel in settingsGUI first though. had a few problems with it this weekend - neo ran out of disk space, but thats fixed today so i'll try to have a release tomorrow. Oct 28 16:34:09 then i want to work on some audio apps. i've got a soundboard app in the pipeline. Oct 28 16:34:22 cool Oct 28 16:34:46 keep hanging around..will let you know once i finish atleast some of the stuff.. Oct 28 16:34:49 so i'll definitely be interested in your progress. i take it your focus is on in-call recording and sample playback? Oct 28 16:35:35 torpor: yeah call recording in general, but my idea is to just give some API..its the app devels job to use that Oct 28 16:36:17 dunno about the playback part though Oct 28 16:36:33 well i've done some IVR work in the past, and would love to have a simple way for managers to create call scripts and sessions that work *on* the phone, rather than at the switch. Oct 28 16:36:39 especially with a nice GUI for tracking and such .. Oct 28 16:36:48 abraxa__: works well, thanks. first time I could test the micro and headset as my gsm still no cooperative Oct 28 16:37:21 torpor: to be honest i havent done anything like that..=| Oct 28 16:39:57 does anybody have experience with the stowaway keyboard? Oct 28 16:40:25 the apple bt is a bit big for carrying around... Oct 28 16:40:55 gamin: i've had stowaways in the past, for my collie, and other pda's. but i' using an apple bt wireless with my neo right now. Oct 28 16:41:05 i wouldn't think its too big for carrying around, actually. Oct 28 16:41:25 for me its almost the perfect form factor. Oct 28 17:46:28 hi out there, how can I prevent gsmd from running ? update-rc.d -f remove gsmd is not sufficient. Is there another place where I can stop it permanently ?? Oct 28 17:48:04 mv `whereis gsmd` /root Oct 28 17:48:48 not the best way Oct 28 17:48:51 Is there a preference for carrier? Tmobile or AT&T ? Oct 28 17:48:57 remove it via pt Oct 28 17:49:42 apt Oct 28 17:50:31 playya: no other way ? Oct 28 17:51:17 remove the entry in the rc Oct 28 17:52:02 OM is dpkg based Oct 28 17:52:19 why do you want to do that anyway? Oct 28 17:52:37 then sudo dpkg-reconfigure gsmd Oct 28 17:52:50 an then change to init.d instead of deamon Oct 28 17:54:19 torpor: just playing around with the GSM.Modem. After calling update-rc.d remove I thought autostart will be disabled but it is not. Oct 28 17:56:17 playya: I dont have apt-get or dpkg do I have to install them via ipkg ? Oct 28 17:56:27 oh ipkg Oct 28 17:56:38 i do not have a moko yet Oct 28 17:56:52 maybe there is a ipkg-reconfigure? Oct 28 17:57:39 ?? I am totally unexperienced in using ipkg ... time to read some man pages I think. Oct 28 17:57:50 maybe Oct 28 18:00:41 matsimoto http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg Oct 28 18:00:59 did a lot rtfm myself today ;) Oct 28 18:01:34 nice, thanks. Oct 28 18:03:34 yw, glad to do something little back over here Oct 28 18:04:56 oh wow, just found 'xrandr -o 1' Oct 28 18:05:05 * stynx newbie ;) Oct 28 18:05:27 * Stephmw refrains from trying that on his PC Oct 28 18:06:57 prob a good idea Stephmw :-) Oct 28 18:07:07 It crashes mine :/ Oct 28 18:07:37 Oh bummer, gives me a nice landscape term instead af the 'normal' one Oct 28 18:09:28 does anybody know how I can reject an incoming call with at commands ? Do I have to answer and immediatley hang up or is there special at command for this ? Oct 28 18:27:36 matsimoto: AT+CHLD=0 Oct 28 18:27:43 if i have compiled the openmoko stuff could i move it to a different directory? Oct 28 18:28:35 playya: I have moved it to my USB disk and use a link from moko to the disk. Works fine for me. Oct 28 18:29:06 have you link it to the original path? Oct 28 18:29:37 i think about throwing open suse away and give the partition to open moko Oct 28 18:30:02 are 14 gig enough for the whole OM? Oct 28 18:30:09 yes you have to maintain the paths Oct 28 18:30:16 playya: yes , I linked /home/moko to the directory on the disk where I stored my build env Oct 28 18:30:26 if you use rm_work its about 8gigs. Oct 28 18:31:12 if not and you use MokoMakefile with update ... It could be more. Oct 28 18:31:27 thats why I moved it to the USB disk Oct 28 18:31:32 with all the object files? Oct 28 18:31:47 yepp completely. Oct 28 18:32:04 i dont want to do a complete recompile on every update Oct 28 18:32:32 you don't have to. Oct 28 18:33:38 i have been running a mokomakefile-based OM build setup for a few months now, and it works fine to do a daily update and make all. you have to put up with the occasional problems - people seem prone to checking things in that are not surviving a fresh build, alas - but for the most part you can maintain an updated build setup on a daily basis pretty easily .. Oct 28 18:34:30 ok Oct 28 18:34:43 When gsmd is not started at boot time and I enter stty -F /dev/ttySAC0 crtscts ssh and phone freezes !? any ideas why this happens ? Oct 28 18:34:45 first compile an then adding a cronjob Oct 28 18:35:55 ljp: perfect! Thanks. Oct 28 18:36:23 MokoMakefile now pulls in qtopia??? oh. Oct 28 18:36:55 matsimoto: openmoko bug #788 Oct 28 18:37:02 !ombug 788 Oct 28 18:37:04 * * Bug 788, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Oct 28 18:37:05 * * mwester(AT)dls.net: Starting or stopping gsmd completely locks up the Neo Oct 28 18:37:06 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Oct 28 18:38:53 gamin: why now? What part of qtopia? Oct 28 18:39:06 matsimoto: You can either remove the "console" arguments from the bootargs variable in your uboot, or flash a patched kernel to fix that hang. A pre-patched kernel can be found at http://moko.mwester.net/ Oct 28 18:40:07 mwester: *shiver* changing the uboot environment is a bit risky isnt it ? Oct 28 18:40:44 zecke|assignment: qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.2.tar.gz Oct 28 18:42:18 zecke|assignment: hmm, uicmoc4-native-4.3.2-r0 is the reason for this Oct 28 18:42:37 matsimoto: It can be, I suppose. Flashing the pre-patched kernel, or adding the patch into your build environment will avoid the need to mess with the uboot environment. Oct 28 18:43:13 gamin: and the true reason is qmake2 needed by webkit Oct 28 18:43:50 mwester: I think, I will take a look at UBoot environment just to be sure to looked at, and after this I will flash your kernel :) Oct 28 18:44:11 zecke|assignment: and I thought openmoko prepares to switch the toolkit ;-P Oct 28 18:44:26 just kidding Oct 28 18:53:42 my moko build dir is 7.4G, btw, i use rm_work, and i do a make update at least every day .. Oct 28 19:05:43 zecke|assignment do you plan to remove the searchbar in openmoko-feedreader someday? Oct 28 19:25:11 ~v12 Oct 28 19:25:12 v12 is probably the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ Oct 28 19:36:23 foss.in has quite a cool program. And Harald talking about OpenMoko... Oct 28 19:37:46 less talk, more action would be better. JMO. Oct 28 19:50:00 hi mwester-laptop Oct 28 20:23:56 openmoko: 03abraxa * r3294 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (20 files in 2 dirs): Oct 28 20:23:56 openmoko: Load playlist after creation and go to track page Oct 28 20:23:56 openmoko: Make startup fade-in smoother Oct 28 20:23:56 openmoko: Other minor changes and cleanups Oct 28 20:42:20 does anyone know if openmoko takes internships? I am a python developer that want to stick with open source technology :D Oct 28 20:42:50 I tried emailing the jobs line and it didn't work... got a delivary error. Oct 28 20:50:40 hello Oct 28 20:53:51 moin! Oct 28 20:54:06 so there is a satscan ipkg now? grrreat! Oct 28 20:56:48 * hhf423 flashes openmoko Oct 28 20:59:35 * hhf423 boots openmoko Oct 28 21:00:08 * LarstiQ watches hhf423 Oct 28 21:01:19 * hhf423 copies config files to Neo Oct 28 21:01:59 hi Ghiottone Oct 28 21:02:13 Ghiottone: heya Oct 28 21:02:42 * hhf423 download satscan Oct 28 21:02:49 * hhf423 ipkg installs satscan Oct 28 21:03:27 * hhf423 restarts x Oct 28 21:03:33 Ghiottone: the smstool tarball listed from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMSTool doesn't work for me Oct 28 21:03:46 * hhf423 enters PIN Oct 28 21:04:23 hhf423: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satscan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk ? Oct 28 21:04:41 yes, http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satscan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk Oct 28 21:04:50 * LarstiQ tries it Oct 28 21:04:55 hmm, does not give an icon in programs? Oct 28 21:06:11 * LarstiQ stares at a couple of questionmarks marching across his screen. Oct 28 21:06:30 ah, it requires an export DISPLAY=:0.0 Oct 28 21:06:35 LarstiQ what exactly is wrong with SMSTool? Oct 28 21:06:43 cooooooool! Oct 28 21:07:57 hhf423: Why are you so excited about satscan? Oct 28 21:08:20 abraxa_: why not? Oct 28 21:08:35 abraxa_: this is the first progress I see on GPS for months Oct 28 21:08:54 Are we talking about http://www.satscan.net ? Oct 28 21:09:14 kristian-m: it does a 'from smstool.ProcessInterface import *', which ImportErrors Oct 28 21:09:26 abraxa_: we're talking about this: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/SatScan.html Oct 28 21:09:55 * hhf423 takes the Neo to a window to see if it finds a satellite Oct 28 21:10:28 back Oct 28 21:11:09 * LarstiQ gets his fingers dirty Oct 28 21:11:09 http://xkcd.com/149/ < lol Oct 28 21:11:35 hhf423: Ahh okay, I didn't know about this Oct 28 21:11:56 CoreDump: this guy is great isn't he? Oct 28 21:12:11 indeed, I love his comics Oct 28 21:12:14 abraxa_: this is fair to get excited about, right? Oct 28 21:12:14 kristian-m: I was blindly following instructions on that page, which doesn't work. Give me a moment to actually think for myself and fix things. Oct 28 21:12:46 what's up? Oct 28 21:12:46 hhf423: Yeah, if that's your kinda thing :) Oct 28 21:12:53 * hhf423 also only sees questionmarks Oct 28 21:13:20 * hhf423 watches the determined march of question marks Oct 28 21:13:30 CoreDump: haha 331 is funny as well... Oct 28 21:13:34 uh? Oct 28 21:13:49 what's this question mark thing? Oct 28 21:14:00 LarstiQ ProcessInterface.py is part of SMSTool Oct 28 21:14:07 Ghiottone: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/SatScan.html Oct 28 21:14:10 zecke|assignment: yeah =) I ready his comic daily Oct 28 21:14:23 LarstiQ try installing from Ghiottones repository Oct 28 21:14:30 ah yeah satscan. I tried it sometime ago Oct 28 21:14:41 hey kristian-m Oct 28 21:15:08 kristian-m: right, but the code is written so as not to work from source, and setup.py requires python-distutils Oct 28 21:15:38 * LarstiQ switches to the repo Oct 28 21:16:16 any news about gllin? Oct 28 21:16:48 Ghiottone: not really: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/10/28/almost-back-in-germany/ Oct 28 21:17:33 hhf423, yeah I read it. that's good news! Oct 28 21:17:59 hhf423, it also mean that openmoko staff has been growing recently which brings more workforce to the project Oct 28 21:18:14 LarstiQ you can just copy the directory to your neo and create an smstool dir, then copy ProcessInterface.py to it and try starting again Oct 28 21:18:24 kristian-m: bah, that's hackish :P Oct 28 21:18:42 kristian-m, LarstiQ what's the topic? Oct 28 21:18:50 LarstiQ you could also change SMSTool.py to import ProcessInterface directly Oct 28 21:18:53 * LarstiQ nods Oct 28 21:19:04 Ghiottone he tryes to install smstool from the tar.gz Oct 28 21:19:37 kristian-m: may I suggest moving the modules under a package directory? Oct 28 21:19:50 kristian-m: ie, SMSTool-0.3c/smstool/ProcessInterface.py Oct 28 21:20:02 LarstiQ when writing the setup.py i did know how to use directories in the archive... - next version will have that Oct 28 21:20:10 kristian-m: cool Oct 28 21:20:22 http://xkcd.com/162/ <- this is some deep shit Oct 28 21:20:25 well shame on me for now ;) Oct 28 21:20:51 kristian-m: if you want any help on distutils or anything, feel free to poke me Oct 28 21:21:03 CoreDump, lol! Oct 28 21:21:57 http://freegis.org Oct 28 21:22:43 oh, matchbox-keyboard can do dvorak, strange Oct 28 21:32:07 hmmm, satscan does not find a sattelite Oct 28 21:33:02 same here Oct 28 21:35:19 hhf423, kristian-m: if I stand at the window, the question marsk do modify the field, giving me *,^ and = Oct 28 21:36:45 LarstiQ not here and the neo is next to the window - maybe it's not always working... Oct 28 21:38:53 kristian-m: I have a pretty clear sky atm, not sure how important that is. Oct 28 21:46:25 http://xkcd.com/249/ Oct 28 22:18:03 * mwester eagerly awaits the release of the new SmartPhone Stack mickey mentions here: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/10/28/almost-back-in-germany Oct 28 22:18:43 mwester: where is 'new' in the entry? Oct 28 22:19:46 zecke|assignment: O Oct 28 22:20:07 zecke|assignment: The first paragraph. Oct 28 22:21:42 I knew about the webkit development, but the new stack, esp. the Telephony part, was kept pretty quiet. Oct 28 22:24:32 He seemed generally happy too, and that's always good :) Oct 28 22:26:23 And he strongly implies that there is still hope that the GTA01 may see a firmware update to fix the GSM modem issues, and even a driver of sorts for the GPS -- both items that I personally gave up on a long time ago as not in Openmoko's corporate best interests. Oct 28 22:27:16 mwester: I've always had hope for the GPS at least :-) Oct 28 22:28:24 Along with the news that Harald is done with the GTA02 hardware that seems to have consumed every bit of Openmoko's resources, to the almost complete abandoning of the GTA01 community, there is reason for a lot of optimism. Oct 28 22:30:11 hey CM Oct 28 22:30:41 the xserver has been crashing a lot lately... does this happen only for me? Oct 28 22:46:31 Does anyone know when the switch to the 2.6.23 kernel will be happening? (i.e. should new kernel patches be based on the existing 2.6.21 kernel, should the existing patches that are still waiting in bugzilla be rebased for 2.6.23?) Oct 28 23:15:38 Ghiottone: Evening :) Oct 28 23:24:39 is it possible to deploy a kernel as an ipkg? Oct 28 23:24:52 or only as a uImage with dfu-util? Oct 28 23:24:55 no, the kernel must be flashed to a separate partition Oct 28 23:25:07 hmm ok Oct 28 23:25:19 and the mokomakefile target then would be 'make build-package-linux' ? Oct 28 23:25:23 * Handle is away: jantando Oct 28 23:28:07 dsilva: theoretically one could set up things such that the kernel could be deployed as an ipkg; uboot can boot from the sd card so with the right changes to the uboot environment and the build system, it should be possible to boot entirely from the sd card. Oct 28 23:28:48 AFAIK nobody is currently doing such a thing. Oct 28 23:36:45 mwester: ah ok Oct 28 23:37:03 mwester: well, deploying the uImage isn't really a problem, dfu-util is pretty convenient Oct 28 23:37:22 * CM starts a make all and goes to bed Oct 28 23:37:26 mwester: still, how do you usually build a kernel though? with mokomakefile? Oct 28 23:38:40 I usually just use bitbake, but mokomakefile is just a wrapper around bitbake, so it amounts to the same thing. Oct 28 23:38:56 mwester: bitbake with the linux target? bitbake -c build linux ? Oct 28 23:40:23 I just do bitbake openmoko-devel-image -- once the cache is built, it really doesn't take much more time, and it's easy. Oct 28 23:40:52 mwester: but i thought that openmoko-devel-image was the entire userspace Oct 28 23:40:59 Yes. Oct 28 23:42:19 mwester: yeah, i don't need to refresh my userspace, just the kernel :) Oct 28 23:43:12 It takes very little time (less than 30 seconds on my system) for bitbake to determine that my userspace is up-to-date, and move on to building the kernel, if that's all I've changed. Oct 28 23:44:27 mwester: ah ok Oct 28 23:44:39 If you can't spare the 30 seconds ;) then "bitbake linux-openmoko" should shortcut directly to building the kernel. :) Oct 28 23:45:27 mwester: sorry, one more question -- if I want to change the kernel code, I guess I should delete the do_compile stamp? Oct 28 23:45:44 Yep - that's how I do it. Oct 28 23:45:58 mwester: ok, thanks Oct 28 23:48:18 Once you're happy with your changes, put them in patch form, drop them in openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko with the other patches, and edit openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko.bb to add the reference to your patch, and increment the PR value in that file. Openembedded is really pretty easy once its set up. Oct 28 23:50:43 mwester: I thought it was openembedded/packages/linux/linux_2.6.21.bb Oct 28 23:52:38 dsilva you've made a patch right? Oct 28 23:53:20 kristian-m: not yet Oct 28 23:53:34 kristian-m: i want to try applying the cpufreq patch Oct 28 23:53:41 dsilva just changing the code couldn't work as the kernel dir would be overwritten Oct 28 23:53:48 kristian-m: this one: http://www.evolware.org/chri/paciugo/cpufreq.patch Oct 28 23:54:12 dsilva i guess the way to du it would be to place the patch into that archive dir Oct 28 23:54:29 kristian-m: hmm ok Oct 28 23:54:48 kristian-m: i thought the kernel dir would only be overwritten if you erased the do_unpack stamp Oct 28 23:55:04 dsilva okay, can be Oct 28 23:55:32 dsilva then it could work Oct 28 23:56:05 kristian-m: i just have to make sure to keep a copy so it doesn't get overwritten when bitbake unpacks again later I guess Oct 28 23:57:00 dsilva okay, tell us if it worked then :-) Oct 28 23:57:05 kristian-m: ok :) Oct 29 00:02:37 dsilva: The kernel recipe used by openmoko is the openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko.bb Oct 29 00:04:07 That corresponds to tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r5 (at present, anyway) Oct 29 00:13:11 mwester: oh, i see the uImage in image/boot/ there Oct 29 00:50:41 hi all, quick question, what's the color depth of the screen on the neo1973? Oct 29 01:05:32 pigeon: I think 16-bit Oct 29 01:05:44 It should be on the wiki Oct 29 01:08:47 sagacis_: thanks, i was going thru the wiki, but i can only find it being 480x640 Oct 29 01:09:06 How could you want more? :D Oct 29 01:09:22 I want 768*1024 on a 4" display Oct 29 01:09:52 Cuz that would be easy to read, right? Also 3D accel, of course. Oct 29 01:11:39 you can have that when resolution independent UI graphics are commonplace Oct 29 01:12:05 we need lolcode for openmoko. (http://lolcode.com/) Oct 29 01:15:49 setenv bootcmd 'openmoko/flash.sh: line 87: Oct 29 01:15:51 burp =/ Oct 29 01:19:04 That probably won't boot Oct 29 01:23:46 nite all Oct 29 01:41:19 good morning Oct 29 01:41:33 Off-topic: I have just created on map and there was article writen about it, could anyone DIGG it pleas ? http://digg.com/gaming_news/http_www_allnevv_com_article_gaming_84/blog THANKS ! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 29 02:59:56 2007