**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 07 02:59:57 2007
Nov 07 03:00:23 <xaid> whats strange from that map is that it looks like most of the rogers towers are dual 850/1900
Nov 07 03:00:33 <xaid> but if that was the case, then you'd get receiption
Nov 07 03:01:24 <xaid> hmm, weird, all the rogers ones are showing dual bands :D
Nov 07 03:01:32 <ckuethe> hm. according to that map, i could throw a baseball and hit a rogers 1900
Nov 07 03:02:42 <xaid> yea, thats what it seems too...you're sure its a problem with the phone? as in a screwed up image or something?
Nov 07 03:02:54 <xaid> *its not a problem with the phone i mean
Nov 07 03:03:44 <xaid> when i check the rest of the towers (non-rogers), some show as only 850 so i know its not all dual band...
Nov 07 03:08:56 <ckuethe> pretty sure - i went straight to tty access to the modem and sent at commands by hand
Nov 07 03:10:33 <xaid> hmm, can you enable 1900 Mhz mode with your Razr? my phone doesn't seem to let me do this
Nov 07 03:11:08 <sagacis|sad> Some providers put the handshaking on 850 only, so you have to register in that band before handing off to 1900
Nov 07 03:13:01 <xaid> It might be what Rogers is doing in here....thats too bad 
Nov 07 03:13:09 <xaid> ckuethe: no luck from 611?
Nov 07 03:23:15 <xaid> hmm, it doesn't seem that a lot of the phones give you advance options to turn off certain bands, i just tried a Nokia 6085 and it doesn't seem that there is a way to disable 850 Mhz mode :/
Nov 07 03:23:43 <xaid> same with my old Samsung x426
Nov 07 03:27:48 <ckuethe> no
Nov 07 03:51:31 <anrp> i've never seen an option to do something like that ...
Nov 07 03:55:14 <xaid> i've never looked before to be honest, but i thought that people would want to do that at some point in time. but it seems its all done automatically without any manual intervention.
Nov 07 04:15:40 <martin_lundstrom> Hello folks
Nov 07 04:15:51 <xaid> martin_lundstrom: Hello
Nov 07 04:16:07 <martin_lundstrom> Im searching for a hackable gsm/gprs/bluetooth phone, what would be a good choise?
Nov 07 04:17:18 <xaid> Any specific GSM frequency bands?
Nov 07 04:17:47 <martin_lundstrom> no, just gprs and bt working
Nov 07 04:18:01 <xaid> the Neo1973 is a good choice, but you should check the technical specs to make sure it suits your needs
Nov 07 04:18:16 <xaid> check the Wiki at http://openmoko.org/Wiki
Nov 07 04:18:20 <martin_lundstrom> i checked some, and it dont run gprs
Nov 07 04:18:27 <xaid> oops wrong link lol
Nov 07 04:18:33 <martin_lundstrom> and seemes quite limited in bt
Nov 07 04:19:09 <xaid> I don't have a phone yet so I'm not sure, but I think that GPRS was working, it might not be doable from the GUI yet
Nov 07 04:19:17 <martin_lundstrom> if it is not even possible to talk on the phone it wont work for me
Nov 07 04:20:04 <xaid> i think in the latest images, dialing works out of the box (TM)
Nov 07 04:20:22 <xaid> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth
Nov 07 04:20:26 <ljp> martin_lundstrom: qtopia works quite well on the Neo
Nov 07 04:20:28 <martin_lundstrom> Here it says that it is not working http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview
Nov 07 04:20:53 <martin_lundstrom> ljp: where can i find a status report?
Nov 07 04:21:32 <martin_lundstrom> xaid: so there is some progress :)
Nov 07 04:22:12 <xaid> martin_lundstrom: there is indeed :) I found this for GPRS http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS
Nov 07 04:22:38 <martin_lundstrom> cool, im quite impressed of all the work
Nov 07 04:24:16 <xaid> it is coming along very nicely actually, the UI looks neat and you have the option of trying QTopia is you want to try a different look and feel as well
Nov 07 04:24:24 <xaid> s/is/if/
Nov 07 04:24:25 <apt> xaid meant: it if coming along very nicely actually, the UI looks neat and you have the option of trying QTopia is you want to try a different look and feel as well
Nov 07 04:24:47 <xaid> apt surely butchered that one :)
Nov 07 04:29:43 <martin_lundstrom> hmm, I think I need some neo1973 sales support, does it exist?
Nov 07 04:30:18 <xaid> i'm not sure...you can ask questions here and someone will usually answer you if they know the answer to your question.
Nov 07 04:30:34 <xaid> you can always email the mailing list as well
Nov 07 04:30:53 <martin_lundstrom> OK, I will study abit more before
Nov 07 05:05:45 <Henryk> ETOOCOLDOUTSIDE
Nov 07 05:06:33 <|R> that much?
Nov 07 05:14:46 <xzcvczx> anyone installed a vnc server on their phone?
Nov 07 05:16:46 <Henryk> hmm, no. (but I had both vnc and rdesktop clients running)
Nov 07 05:18:32 <xzcvczx> Henryk: lol not much use.... i need the server
Nov 07 05:20:28 <Henryk> (just in case: qemu has a vnc server built-in)
Nov 07 05:21:10 <xzcvczx> qemu runs too slow for me (a lot slower than realtime)
Nov 07 05:21:20 <Henryk> oh, okay
Nov 07 05:22:20 <Henryk> so, I'm off, into the cold rain
Nov 07 05:51:26 <martin_lundstrom> good night folks
Nov 07 06:02:01 * CM updates that page in the wiki
Nov 07 06:02:25 <PITABoy> CM updates what wiki page
Nov 07 06:02:27 <xzcvczx> CM: which page?
Nov 07 06:02:31 <xzcvczx> lol
Nov 07 06:02:34 <CM> Hehe
Nov 07 06:02:44 <CM> The one martin_lundstrom talked about
Nov 07 06:02:49 * xzcvczx smacks CM around a bit with a giant trout for being so uselessly vague
Nov 07 06:02:52 <xzcvczx> ah
Nov 07 06:03:27 * PITABoy really really wants openmoko support for cdma phones
Nov 07 06:03:56 <CM> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview was really negative and vague too ;)
Nov 07 06:11:50 * xzcvczx thinks cdma isnt going to last much longer
Nov 07 06:58:22 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 07 06:59:36 <mbuf> Hopscotch, good morning
Nov 07 07:02:28 <xzcvczx> good evening
Nov 07 07:02:55 <xzcvczx> roh: you awake?
Nov 07 07:05:04 <CM> Probably not yet :)
Nov 07 07:05:18 <xzcvczx> CM: it is 8am his time
Nov 07 07:05:28 <xzcvczx> he should learn to wake up at a decent hr
Nov 07 07:05:55 <CM> xzcvczx: I think he needs to learn when to go to bed instead :D
Nov 07 07:06:19 <xzcvczx> meh same thing]
Nov 07 07:06:37 <CM> No it's not
Nov 07 07:06:49 <CM> I've learned to get up between 6 and 6.30
Nov 07 07:06:53 * xzcvczx smacks CM, dont contradict me
Nov 07 07:06:55 <xzcvczx> :P
Nov 07 07:07:04 <CM> But I rarely make it to bed before midnight :P
Nov 07 07:07:56 <xzcvczx> i make it to bed (couch in front of plasma) by like 6pm but dont sleep til after 3am most the time
Nov 07 07:08:55 <flexd> good grief, someone, coffine!, now!
Nov 07 07:09:19 <xzcvczx> coffine?
Nov 07 07:09:23 <flexd> coffeine*
Nov 07 07:09:23 <xzcvczx> you mean caffine?
Nov 07 07:09:25 <xzcvczx> or coffin
Nov 07 07:09:27 <flexd> one of the 3
Nov 07 07:09:40 <flexd> whatever just wake me up if i fall over
Nov 07 07:10:10 <flexd> apparently going to bed at 2am and waking up at 6am is not exactly good for me
Nov 07 07:10:22 <xzcvczx> flexd: its perfectly good
Nov 07 07:10:36 <flexd> i dont actually drink coffee
Nov 07 07:10:48 <xzcvczx> yeah neither, cant stand the stuff
Nov 07 07:10:49 <flexd> and i've done this every day since may
Nov 07 07:11:11 <xzcvczx> well from the 13th i am doing 27 days straight of 13hr days
Nov 07 07:11:13 <flexd> i live on games, drooling about the neo and large amounts of hot chocolate/energy drinks
Nov 07 07:11:49 <flexd> the others in my office didnt cope with it though, their all MIA atm ^^ 
Nov 07 07:12:04 <xzcvczx> i live on drooling about the neo, other computer shit and jumping out of planes
Nov 07 07:12:44 <flexd> havent jumped out of any planes yet
Nov 07 07:13:02 <xzcvczx> flexd: wimp :P
Nov 07 07:13:04 <xzcvczx> its fun
Nov 07 07:13:40 <flexd> i'm not saying im not going to
Nov 07 07:13:46 <flexd> just havent had the chance to try
Nov 07 07:13:48 <flexd> expensive tuff
Nov 07 07:13:50 <flexd> stuff*
Nov 07 07:14:02 <xzcvczx> flexd: only costs me $30NZD these days per jump
Nov 07 07:15:45 * CM loves coffee
Nov 07 07:16:10 <CM> But it must not be poisoned with milk or sugar..
Nov 07 07:16:25 <xzcvczx> CM: yeah we dont care
Nov 07 07:16:27 <xzcvczx> :P
Nov 07 07:16:49 <CM> xzcvczx: Working a lot sucks btw
Nov 07 07:16:55 <xzcvczx> CM: oh are you in same area as roh?
Nov 07 07:17:08 <xzcvczx> CM: not when you earn 5k in 27 days
Nov 07 07:17:20 <CM> I'm in Sweden, so it's the same timezone
Nov 07 07:17:26 <xzcvczx> ah ok
Nov 07 07:17:31 <flexd> 5k swedish money in27days?
Nov 07 07:17:35 <CM> What is 5k NZD?
Nov 07 07:17:39 <flexd> thats even less than me, i thought i was underpaid :/
Nov 07 07:17:42 <CM> flexd: Hehe
Nov 07 07:17:51 <flexd> <- 8k norwegian a month
Nov 07 07:17:51 <xzcvczx> 5000*0.78 = USD
Nov 07 07:17:58 <flexd> standard slavery payment :(
Nov 07 07:18:04 <CM> 5k swedish i get in about a week
Nov 07 07:18:08 <xzcvczx> flexd: i am a student still though
Nov 07 07:18:15 <xzcvczx> yeah STFU CM :P
Nov 07 07:18:20 <flexd> xzcvczx: so am i sorta, a it trainee at a local school
Nov 07 07:18:33 <xzcvczx> flexd: im still at university
Nov 07 07:19:20 <flexd> xzcvczx: i ahvent gotten there yet
Nov 07 07:19:43 <CM> I'm out of it since almost 3 years..
Nov 07 07:19:47 <xzcvczx> flexd: lol, i plan to pause uni half wya through next year and go do pilot license though
Nov 07 07:19:50 <flexd> 1 year left as a trainee, then 1 year of boring classes like norwegian/english/math and stuff, and first THEN i can go uni :/
Nov 07 07:19:59 <xzcvczx> CM: whats your day job?
Nov 07 07:20:09 <CM> xzcvczx: Consultant
Nov 07 07:20:19 <flexd> unless someone can hire me to a job i make loads of money
Nov 07 07:20:25 <flexd> then you know, education isnt that needed
Nov 07 07:20:26 <xzcvczx> flexd: i think english will help you.... should have said "first and THEN" :P
Nov 07 07:20:26 <CM> At a crap assignment at Volvo right now, but I'm about to move
Nov 07 07:20:34 <xzcvczx> CM: lol volvo
Nov 07 07:20:39 <flexd> xzcvczx: shush it's early in the morning!
Nov 07 07:20:43 <xzcvczx> lol 
Nov 07 07:20:57 <CM> HEhe
Nov 07 07:22:08 <CM> xzcvczx: Btw, my pay after taxes is maybe 4500 NZD/month.. Our taxes suck ;)
Nov 07 07:22:21 <xzcvczx> OUCH!!!
Nov 07 07:22:37 <xzcvczx> what are your rates/cuttoffs
Nov 07 07:23:07 <CM> I pay 33% tax for the base 5000NZD, then up to 56% on the stuff above..
Nov 07 07:23:24 <xzcvczx> ours are 19.5%-33k=33%-50k=39%
Nov 07 07:23:27 <xzcvczx> OUCH
Nov 07 07:24:01 <flexd> 39% taxes here
Nov 07 07:24:05 <flexd> dont you just love norway?
Nov 07 07:24:06 <flexd> :/
Nov 07 07:24:24 <CM> I think you can get even higher once you get beyond 10.000NZD/month
Nov 07 07:24:27 <xzcvczx> wow that makes no sense, up to 33k = 19.5 33k-50k = 33% and >50k = 39%
Nov 07 07:25:05 <xzcvczx> we definately seem to have low tax rates against you two but you go to aussie your first 5k is untaxed
Nov 07 07:25:07 <CM> flexd: At least you have an even rate for all, not one just getting higher and higher
Nov 07 07:25:16 <flexd> Well it goes up if i make more money
Nov 07 07:25:17 <flexd> i think
Nov 07 07:25:19 <flexd> or down
Nov 07 07:25:20 <flexd> i dunno
Nov 07 07:25:27 <flexd> down probably
Nov 07 07:25:33 <xzcvczx> CM: but flatrate is not how the tax system was designed to work
Nov 07 07:25:54 <flexd> this guy i went to school with that also works here earns the same as me (same position), but he's got a much lower tax rate
Nov 07 07:25:57 <CM> xzcvczx: I agree
Nov 07 07:26:03 <flexd> atleast last year, but he had a second job so i dunno
Nov 07 07:26:10 <CM> But the moron politicians don't seem to get it..
Nov 07 07:26:31 <flexd> I'm making one minimum's years pay over two years (like 285k norwegian over 2 years)
Nov 07 07:26:31 <CM> flexd: How can he have a lower tax rate?
Nov 07 07:26:37 <flexd> CM: who knows.
Nov 07 07:26:39 <flexd> brb
Nov 07 07:27:06 <xzcvczx> CM: well the think is the "rich" people are not wage/salary earners any more and so they are nailing the "middle" class and leaving the rich people with all their money
Nov 07 07:27:37 <CM> *nod*
Nov 07 07:27:43 <xzcvczx> i normally get about 1/4 of my tax back in rebates anyway
Nov 07 07:27:51 <CM> You can never get rich working, only by earning
Nov 07 07:27:57 <CM> Ehh
Nov 07 07:28:02 <CM> s/earning/owning
Nov 07 07:28:06 <xzcvczx> lol
Nov 07 07:28:19 * CM gets another cup of coffee
Nov 07 07:28:20 <xzcvczx> and if you are rich you barely ever earn it
Nov 07 07:28:22 <xzcvczx> lol
Nov 07 07:28:31 <CM> :P
Nov 07 07:28:55 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 07 07:29:03 <xzcvczx> wtf does moin mean
Nov 07 07:30:00 <flexd> uhm
Nov 07 07:30:10 <CM> About the same as Perkele! :P
Nov 07 07:30:14 <flexd> tax rates are lower for people that make more because there's a larger amount of money to take %'s off
Nov 07 07:30:16 <fgau> moin = good morning
Nov 07 07:30:24 <flexd> so they end up paying rougly the same
Nov 07 07:30:36 <flexd> until they make a certain amount of money ofcourse, where there's other taxes and shit involved
Nov 07 07:30:48 <CM> Heh, always so complex
Nov 07 07:30:54 <mbuf> anyone here familiar with autotools? if i would like to use SUBDIRS in a top-level Makefile.am, what needs to be done for autogen.sh (from top-level directory) to use SUBDIRS/Makefile.am and create Makefiles?
Nov 07 07:31:20 * CM doesn't know
Nov 07 07:31:33 <xzcvczx> flexd: thats so stupid
Nov 07 07:32:04 <xzcvczx> flexd: tell your gov they are friggin idiots and look what taxes were designed to do
Nov 07 07:32:33 <flexd> taxes are designed to make the gov even more money
Nov 07 07:32:54 <flexd> not enough that we earn like insane amounts of money off the oil business, they gotta drag money out of us too :/
Nov 07 07:33:07 <xzcvczx> yes but they are meant to punish the rich more than the poor
Nov 07 07:33:14 <CM> Aha, so it will be a webkit gui on the gphone... 
Nov 07 07:33:17 <xzcvczx> as the poor have less money to throw around
Nov 07 07:38:53 <CVirus> .topic
Nov 07 07:38:54 <CVirus> oops
Nov 07 07:38:56 <CVirus> sorry
Nov 07 07:39:14 <CM> We'll never forgive you for that.. ;)
Nov 07 07:39:19 <CVirus> hehe
Nov 07 07:39:30 <CVirus> well ... at least I read the topic :-p
Nov 07 07:39:48 <CM> And you haven't even mentioned Android yet
Nov 07 07:40:01 <CM> "He said Jehovah!"
Nov 07 07:40:03 <CVirus> I thought I shouldn't mention them !
Nov 07 07:40:32 <xzcvczx> CM: lol we should start thzt
Nov 07 07:40:35 <xzcvczx> that
Nov 07 07:40:44 <CM> "Stone him!"
Nov 07 07:40:52 <xzcvczx> everytime someone says android /me throws rock at x
Nov 07 07:41:16 <CVirus> I'm working on an application that will allow the OpenMoko to work as a remote control for the laptop .. via bluetooth
Nov 07 07:41:19 * xzcvczx sets it up as autotrigger
Nov 07 07:41:46 <CM> xzcvczx: Maybe include ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU )
Nov 07 07:41:51 <CVirus> **cough**andsroid**COUGH**
Nov 07 07:42:17 * xzcvczx throws a rock at CVirus 
Nov 07 07:42:18 <CVirus> typo .. LOL
Nov 07 07:42:51 <xzcvczx> sweet
Nov 07 07:42:56 * xzcvczx has right click working again
Nov 07 07:43:48 <flexd> http://surreality.info/up/pacmanjesus.gif
Nov 07 07:44:01 <xzcvczx> CVirus: tell me when your program is complete as when it is i will use it on my mac as my mac has no keyboard
Nov 07 07:44:25 <CM> CVirus: Cool app
Nov 07 07:45:12 <CVirus> I was implementing a daemon that will run on my laptop and accepts bluetooth messages from my nokia 6600
Nov 07 07:45:28 <flexd> CM: what app? :o
Nov 07 07:45:39 <flexd> oh
Nov 07 07:45:40 <flexd> imb lind
Nov 07 07:45:42 <flexd> blind
Nov 07 07:45:43 <flexd> nice
Nov 07 07:45:52 <xzcvczx> and dyslexic it seems
Nov 07 07:46:14 <CVirus> actually I thought about it as I wanted someway to lock my screen remotely
Nov 07 07:46:34 <CVirus> and control amaroK :-)
Nov 07 07:46:43 <CVirus> I'll launch a page for the project soon
Nov 07 07:46:55 <CVirus> hopefully
Nov 07 07:47:33 <xzcvczx> yeah i will eventually create a page for my project as well... wanna wait til i get the extra hardware required first though]
Nov 07 07:48:03 <xzcvczx> and wait til the gps binary is released 
Nov 07 07:48:04 <CVirus> my problem is that I'm not even a programmer ... I just know a bit of python that's all
Nov 07 07:48:38 <xzcvczx> yeah i really only know java..... but best way to learn is to do
Nov 07 07:48:51 <CVirus> exactly
Nov 07 07:49:41 <xzcvczx> i am reasonably quickly learning c although finding it a lot different to java.... javas apis seem a lot simpler to use
Nov 07 07:50:17 <CVirus> Python for the win :-p
Nov 07 07:50:39 <xzcvczx> meh i tried python a while ago..... cant say i would really go back ther
Nov 07 07:50:41 <xzcvczx> there
Nov 07 07:50:48 <xzcvczx> but thats just my opinion
Nov 07 07:51:19 <xzcvczx> and am happy to be away from java... except for how useless c is with its error reporting
Nov 07 07:51:42 <CM> Why happy to be away from java?
Nov 07 07:51:56 <xzcvczx> CM: speed/resource requirement
Nov 07 07:52:17 <CVirus> I know Java too ... but Java makes me more concerned with the syntax rather than solving the problem
Nov 07 07:52:23 <CM> Hmm.. I agree on the resource part, but I like the language
Nov 07 07:52:23 <CVirus> so as C
Nov 07 07:52:49 <CM> CVirus: I get what you mean
Nov 07 07:53:19 <CVirus> I have a Java lab in an hour :-D
Nov 07 07:53:25 <CVirus> at the uni
Nov 07 07:54:01 <CM> I started out with some basic and a little assembler, then c, then java, c++, C#, python, ruby, APL(shudder)..
Nov 07 07:55:49 <CVirus> a friend told me that Enlightenment's lead developer is also an OpenMoko dev ?
Nov 07 07:56:10 <xzcvczx> CVirus: indeed
Nov 07 07:56:11 <xzcvczx> raster
Nov 07 07:56:26 <flexd> CV: Make that run on windows somehow too? ;) (trough python maybe?)
Nov 07 07:56:29 <xzcvczx> see the full "hes a god" conversation on the community mailing list
Nov 07 07:56:45 <flexd> I've been thinking of making something that automatically locks my machine whenever my cell gets out of bluetooth range
Nov 07 07:58:06 <raster> :)
Nov 07 07:58:15 <CVirus> raster: pleased to meet you :-)
Nov 07 07:58:16 * raster slinks back inot lurk mode
Nov 07 07:58:33 * raster de-lurks
Nov 07 07:58:41 * flexd ties a noose around raster's foot and attaches it to the main channel podium
Nov 07 07:58:52 <flexd> channel main podium*
Nov 07 07:59:03 <raster> CVirus: likewise
Nov 07 07:59:27 * monkeyiq wonders how many podiums there are in the channel 
Nov 07 07:59:46 <xzcvczx> speak of the devil himself
Nov 07 07:59:48 <xzcvczx> :P
Nov 07 08:01:20 * raster puts his horns, tail and pitchfork on
Nov 07 08:01:24 <raster> and i'm not the devl
Nov 07 08:01:29 <raster> i'm "evil overlord"
Nov 07 08:01:46 <flexd> monkeyiq: decided by the amount of people wanting their own podium, there's some wood and a hammer+nails around here somewhere, feel free to make your own i guess?, injuries gotten from falling from self made podiums will not be covered by health insurance.
Nov 07 08:01:48 <raster> thats what the biz card says
Nov 07 08:02:14 <flexd> raster: i have to make my own biz cards if i want them :(
Nov 07 08:02:15 <monkeyiq> raster; does that make you the pointy horned deviloper
Nov 07 08:03:17 <raster> hehehehehe
Nov 07 08:03:27 <monkeyiq> flexd; so there is a loophole if you get someone else to make your podium, then its not "self made"
Nov 07 08:03:27 <xzcvczx> monkeyiq: just the horny developer
Nov 07 08:04:12 <xzcvczx> raster: e is looking very nice these days
Nov 07 08:04:16 <monkeyiq> xzcvczx; but there are many of those around already :)
Nov 07 08:04:32 <duffyd> hi all, I've been using the qtopia preview snapshots for a while now and want to switch back to openmoko but downloading the latest snapshots from buildhost.automated.it - now I can load X on my Neo. Is this related to the qtopia stuff or the OM snapshots?
Nov 07 08:04:47 <xzcvczx> om snapshots
Nov 07 08:05:05 <xzcvczx> duffyd: try clearing the flash before you flash it though
Nov 07 08:05:36 <duffyd> xzcvczx: ok, thanks
Nov 07 08:06:03 <duffyd> xzcvczx: is that a 'factory reset'?
Nov 07 08:06:15 <CM> duffyd: How old uboot do you have?
Nov 07 08:06:31 <xzcvczx> duffyd: not just is safer
Nov 07 08:06:40 <raster> xzcvczx: i's gtting there
Nov 07 08:06:50 <xzcvczx> CM: i do it even with the newest uboot as i have issues otherwise
Nov 07 08:07:20 <CM> xzcvczx: Oh, hmm.. Is there any good known new uboot?
Nov 07 08:07:26 <xzcvczx> raster: well i was using -17 back when it was very much anything you wanted to do was done on the command line
Nov 07 08:07:33 <xzcvczx> CM: the one i use works
Nov 07 08:07:44 <CM> xzcvczx: And that version is?
Nov 07 08:07:51 <CM> Link? :)
Nov 07 08:07:59 <xzcvczx> its one off of automated but there is also one htere that doesnt work properly though cu
Nov 07 08:08:05 <xzcvczx> ummmm
Nov 07 08:08:41 <flexd> monkeyiq: it's elf made then
Nov 07 08:08:47 <CM> Anyway, I need a new one because I have to get usb-terminal by default since my uboot-env is borked
Nov 07 08:09:17 <xzcvczx> CM: dunno the version.... it was approx end of sept iirc
Nov 07 08:09:25 <monkeyiq> flexd: mmmm elves, eases the pain...
Nov 07 08:09:48 <duffyd> CM: U-Boot 1.2.0-moko9_r8_70124c2602...
Nov 07 08:09:57 <duffyd> may 19 2007
Nov 07 08:10:23 <flexd> hmmm
Nov 07 08:10:26 <flexd> pybluez ftw
Nov 07 08:10:36 <xzcvczx> lol duffyd definately blank the flash
Nov 07 08:10:41 <raster> xzcvczx: a lot of e17 is all gui now
Nov 07 08:10:47 <raster> config thru to app management and more
Nov 07 08:11:01 <xzcvczx> raster: yeah i know... was running it up until about 5mins ago
Nov 07 08:11:04 <duffyd> xzcvczx: sorry, I don't know how to blank the flash?
Nov 07 08:11:21 <xzcvczx> open flash menu
Nov 07 08:11:29 <xzcvczx> on host go cu -l /dev/ttyACM0
Nov 07 08:11:39 <xzcvczx> nand erase kernel
Nov 07 08:11:45 <xzcvczx> nand erase rootfs
Nov 07 08:11:51 <xzcvczx> then flash
Nov 07 08:12:30 * duffyd feels a nervous 'brick neo' feeling coming on :P
Nov 07 08:12:32 <raster> xzcvczx: you stopped?
Nov 07 08:12:41 * raster prepares the beatings stick
Nov 07 08:12:47 <xzcvczx> duffyd: has no possible way to brick unless you mess with uboot
Nov 07 08:12:59 <duffyd> xzcvczx: oh ic, ta
Nov 07 08:13:28 <xzcvczx> raster: too use to having a task manager at the moment, will go back when kde starts f'ing me off for being too slow which probably wont take long
Nov 07 08:13:58 <xzcvczx> and still have putloads of stuff to emerge for e to make it nicer
Nov 07 08:16:13 <raster> xzcvczx: bah! use virtual desktops. group takss in each
Nov 07 08:16:14 <raster> :)
Nov 07 08:16:39 <xzcvczx> raster: i use virtual desktops but fill them up too damn quickly
Nov 07 08:17:02 <xzcvczx> and dont worry i will return patience is a virtue :P
Nov 07 08:18:23 <raster> add more!
Nov 07 08:18:23 <raster> :)
Nov 07 08:18:27 <raster> and yes
Nov 07 08:18:33 <raster> we will get a "taskbar"
Nov 07 08:18:36 <CVirus> I know nothing about communications I guess so I don't understand this all 850MHz thing ... anybody up to explain ?
Nov 07 08:18:39 <raster> its just less important to the devs
Nov 07 08:18:49 <raster> because we somehow all seem to use vd's to organise ourselves
Nov 07 08:19:21 <xzcvczx> raster: is there a sort of approx date for a release yet/
Nov 07 08:19:21 <xzcvczx> ?
Nov 07 08:19:57 <CVirus> E17 has been under development for more than 4 years now ?
Nov 07 08:20:56 <raster> e17 started end of 2004
Nov 07 08:21:12 <raster> was a pause while doing other back-end code stuff and experiments before that
Nov 07 08:21:21 <flexd> woot, got super drugged down vision again now, i feel spaced out >_<
Nov 07 08:21:35 <raster> xzcvczx: no date. a todo list with milestones to achieve tho
Nov 07 08:21:44 <CVirus> I see
Nov 07 08:21:48 <xzcvczx> raster: ah ok
Nov 07 08:22:25 * xzcvczx wonders what comes first e17 or gta02 :P
Nov 07 08:22:37 <CVirus> E is actually one of the few wm's that impressed me ... I've used it for over a year
Nov 07 08:22:40 <CVirus> E16 that is
Nov 07 08:22:55 <xzcvczx> e17 is much nicer
Nov 07 08:23:15 <CVirus> yeah
Nov 07 08:26:20 <raster> ok
Nov 07 08:26:22 <raster> foodiepoos
Nov 07 08:26:32 <ScaredyCat> wtf!
Nov 07 08:27:09 <xzcvczx> CVirus: how the pointers treating you in c?
Nov 07 08:27:35 <CVirus> xzcvczx: I don't know C
Nov 07 08:27:45 * flexd wonders if it's weird with him sitting by a desk almost feeling seasick by the spinning room
Nov 07 08:27:59 <xzcvczx> CVirus: i thought you were learning it arent you?
Nov 07 08:28:07 <CVirus> xzcvczx: never :-D
Nov 07 08:28:13 <CM> CVirus: About that 850MHz thing, it's just the gsm frequency used in some insignificant countries.. ;)
Nov 07 08:28:23 <flexd>  CVirus: Your name is sort of ironic then.. :p
Nov 07 08:28:27 <CVirus> hehe
Nov 07 08:28:36 <CM> CVirus: And the hw in the GTA02 seems to be unable to use it
Nov 07 08:28:50 <xzcvczx> and it gta01
Nov 07 08:28:55 <CM> Sure, that too
Nov 07 08:28:59 <xzcvczx> s/it/in
Nov 07 08:29:24 <xzcvczx> doesnt yanktown use 850 in some areas?
Nov 07 08:29:29 <CVirus> let me check my country
Nov 07 08:29:45 <CVirus> http://allworldcellphones.com/gsm-frequencies-list.htm
Nov 07 08:29:50 <CVirus> http://www.simoncells.com/scripts/gsmzone.asp
Nov 07 08:30:34 <xzcvczx> lol it was rather funny there yesterday i was trying to mess round with AT%EM commands and was absolutely stuffed if i could work out why it wasnt working... some hrs later realised why, hadnt put sim in
Nov 07 08:30:35 <CVirus> Egypt operates on 900MHz
Nov 07 08:31:02 <CVirus> Apple's branch in Egypt is selling unlocked iPhones
Nov 07 08:31:09 <XorA> 900/1800 are the most common
Nov 07 08:31:22 <XorA> its those damn yanks and their wierd frequencies
Nov 07 08:31:39 <CM> Yes, Canada, USA and latin america
Nov 07 08:31:55 <xzcvczx> CVirus: same here
Nov 07 08:31:59 <CVirus> wtf !
Nov 07 08:32:01 <CVirus> is this legal ?
Nov 07 08:32:28 <XorA> what legal?
Nov 07 08:32:37 <CVirus> to unlock the iPhone ?
Nov 07 08:33:00 <XorA> depends on how fscked your country is with copycat DCMA legislation
Nov 07 08:33:23 <CVirus> hmm
Nov 07 08:33:27 <mypapit> going to shutdown
Nov 07 08:33:41 <CVirus> Why doesn't apple do anything regarding those countries ?
Nov 07 08:33:42 <xzcvczx> CVirus: they have to sell unlocked in france
Nov 07 08:33:54 <XorA> its quite likely there are a few countries in the world that beleive when you buy hardware you actually own it not license it
Nov 07 08:33:54 <CVirus> is it even meant to be sold in Europe !
Nov 07 08:34:28 <xzcvczx> CVirus: it will eventually get to everywhere in the world
Nov 07 08:35:23 <CVirus> even after apple updated their software and locked all the unlocked phones
Nov 07 08:35:35 <CVirus> apple egypt unlocked the phones once again for the people
Nov 07 08:43:32 * xzcvczx summons roh
Nov 07 08:57:08 <dread> hm, everytime neo boots up, i get an "dialer: error setting antenna power" 
Nov 07 08:57:19 <xzcvczx> dread: i get same
Nov 07 08:57:21 <xzcvczx> just click ok
Nov 07 08:58:02 <dread> is there an fix or should i just try the next build?
Nov 07 08:58:25 <xzcvczx> havent seen anyone in here talking about a fix
Nov 07 08:58:30 <xzcvczx> maybe check bugzilla
Nov 07 09:18:28 <bedboi> hi all
Nov 07 09:20:29 <xzcvczx> hello
Nov 07 09:21:02 <florian> hi bedboi 
Nov 07 09:21:12 <bedboi> hey florian
Nov 07 09:21:15 <bedboi> long time no see
Nov 07 09:21:17 * xzcvczx loves that part of resident evil
Nov 07 09:21:27 <bedboi> it is a very busy time of my life
Nov 07 09:21:30 <florian> bedboi: yes indeed... 
Nov 07 09:21:45 <bedboi> florian: now i'm in france.
Nov 07 09:22:23 <florian> bedboi: oh... for working?
Nov 07 09:30:38 <bedboi> yep
Nov 07 09:30:46 <bedboi> i'm working without any pause since the last year
Nov 07 09:30:55 <bedboi> no vacation at all
Nov 07 09:31:19 <bedboi> i must be very stupid, because my "salary" is still the same.
Nov 07 09:31:35 <florian> yeah... same here - except of some conferences and about a week of for moving
Nov 07 09:31:36 <bedboi> i'm not taking the italian way to do things
Nov 07 09:31:50 <bedboi> where did you move?
Nov 07 09:33:08 <florian> bedboi: Only ~500m to a newer house... 
Nov 07 09:33:13 <bedboi> ahah
Nov 07 09:33:18 <bedboi> cool
Nov 07 09:33:20 <bedboi> 'grats
Nov 07 09:33:35 <Ghiottone|work> gratz and morning
Nov 07 09:33:56 <florian> Where "newer" means about 300 years :-)
Nov 07 09:34:01 <florian> hi Ghiottone|work 
Nov 07 09:34:04 <bedboi> ah, cool.
Nov 07 09:34:16 <bedboi> florian: now i'm in a 1923 residence
Nov 07 09:34:24 <bedboi> so i can feel you
Nov 07 09:35:10 <florian> bedboi: well... I wouldn't be that sure. The old one was about 400 years old... 
Nov 07 09:35:22 <bedboi> are you serious?
Nov 07 09:35:28 <bedboi> 400 years?
Nov 07 09:35:42 <bedboi> were you in a farm?
Nov 07 09:35:43 <bedboi> :)
Nov 07 09:36:04 <bedboi> we have such houses in my city (in the old part)
Nov 07 09:36:19 <bedboi> they are dated back in XII century
Nov 07 09:36:37 <bedboi> but now completely rebuilt
Nov 07 09:36:49 <florian> bedboi: Yes... one of the oldest still existing buildings in Siegen. I was some kind of inn before... 
Nov 07 09:37:07 <bedboi> cool
Nov 07 09:37:08 <florian> bedboi: unluckily the company that owns it does not really care... that's a shame :-/
Nov 07 09:38:46 <bedboi> i imaging a 400 years old house with a lot of PDAs and electronic gadgets inside
Nov 07 09:38:48 <florian> We have a lot of really nice buildings from 1910 to 1930 around here... most of them in perfect condition and quite expensive.
Nov 07 09:38:57 <florian> heheh
Nov 07 09:40:00 <florian> yeah... that was a bit strange. But hi-tech and old buildings are a good combination :-)
Nov 07 09:40:26 <florian> There is a software company in Germany that is in an old castle.
Nov 07 09:54:31 <flexd> arr
Nov 07 09:54:35 <flexd> threads are the spawn of evil
Nov 07 09:54:36 <flexd> :(
Nov 07 10:00:20 <bedboi> flexd: yep most of the times.
Nov 07 10:00:27 <bedboi> i completely agree
Nov 07 10:00:58 * xzcvczx kicks roh
Nov 07 10:01:30 <flexd> whoever made pybluez block... damn you %#)%()#
Nov 07 10:01:37 <flexd> (the discover services part)
Nov 07 10:01:40 <flexd> err, devices*
Nov 07 10:04:37 <bedboi> btw, where are hosted the latest openmoko images  ? 
Nov 07 10:05:37 <CM> bedboi: I'd say ScaredyCat's images
Nov 07 10:05:49 <CM> http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/
Nov 07 10:06:19 <zash> bedboi: ^3Wdw$bP
Nov 07 10:06:20 <bedboi> yep
Nov 07 10:10:53 <zecke> what is gizmo's mail address?
Nov 07 10:11:07 <dread> what is the §G issue about? is it just using a special type of sim card in neo, or is it to use highspeed technology like EGDE ?
Nov 07 10:11:49 <zash> 3G != EDGE
Nov 07 10:11:58 <dread> oh, yes
Nov 07 10:12:33 <dread> just read it, in this second :) EDGE is G2.5, UMTS and HSDPA are consideres as 3G, right?
Nov 07 10:12:43 <zash> yes
Nov 07 10:13:23 <dread> so, is the issue and the firmwareupdate just about using §G bards to access the gsm network or is it supposed to enable 3G ?
Nov 07 10:14:13 <zash> i think the simcards are diffrent somehow
Nov 07 10:14:37 <mjr> it's just to be able to use some of the newer sim cards to access gsm
Nov 07 10:15:32 <dread> ah, okay :) 
Nov 07 10:15:43 <mjr> EDGE is able to provide speeds that are considered 3G, incidentally, depending on stuff. 2.75G is an oft-quoted "G"-value for it.
Nov 07 10:16:04 <zash> how is edge vs gprs?
Nov 07 10:16:23 <mjr> edge is up to ~three times faster
Nov 07 10:16:45 <mjr> (and not available on Neo)
Nov 07 10:17:24 <xzcvczx> i cant say i use any data from my cell as it costs $10 per mega
Nov 07 10:17:26 <xzcvczx> byte
Nov 07 10:17:33 <zash> and gprs ~= 56k modem :(
Nov 07 10:17:54 * mjr is a regular gprs user
Nov 07 10:18:04 * zash has "mobile brodband"
Nov 07 10:18:31 <zash> broadband as in ~6*56k
Nov 07 10:19:13 <xzcvczx> bet it costs < $10/mb for both you tho right?
Nov 07 10:21:03 <zash> nope, 99 SEK/month
Nov 07 10:21:49 <jeddy3> (~15$)
Nov 07 10:23:23 <jeddy3> s/15$/$15/
Nov 07 10:23:23 <apt> jeddy3 meant: (~$15)
Nov 07 10:24:18 <xzcvczx> aint no monthly caps here, most is 3gig for $80/month
Nov 07 10:24:27 <cjb_ie> i pay 20eur/month for 10 gigs
Nov 07 10:24:38 <cjb_ie> with three.ie
Nov 07 10:24:42 <zash> yay for .se :D
Nov 07 10:24:43 <buz> if i had contract isntead of prepaid, i could get 50mb for 5EUR
Nov 07 10:24:48 <buz> but contract costs too much
Nov 07 10:25:12 <buz> or 2EUR a day for unlimited traffic, only paid on days where you use it
Nov 07 10:25:31 <xzcvczx> the price has gone up for casual as well to $11.25/mb
Nov 07 10:26:00 <zash> ~$232 for one year of unlimited 3g surfing, including hsdpa-usb-modem
Nov 07 10:26:01 <xzcvczx> well best thing is if you are on prepay here and have no money on your account its free
Nov 07 10:26:26 <buz> hu?
Nov 07 10:26:29 <buz> you sure?
Nov 07 10:26:36 <buz> then wtf would anyone ever pay?
Nov 07 10:26:50 <zash> to .. call ppl?
Nov 07 10:27:14 <xzcvczx> well its a bug in the system, with prepay you cant go into negative and so if you have no money they cant charge you
Nov 07 10:28:05 <buz> if you're on 0 you cant call here
Nov 07 10:28:06 <cjb_ie> vodafone came up with a nice dodge recently - if you run out, you can text them 'IOU' and they'll give you something like a 2 eur advance on your next credit
Nov 07 10:28:18 <xzcvczx> they did the same here
Nov 07 10:28:20 <buz> cjb_ie: they used to do that here, too
Nov 07 10:28:37 <buz> actually, you didnt have to text either
Nov 07 10:28:51 <buz> i assume it was abused to often in the days of free prepaid sims though
Nov 07 10:35:29 <Batalyx> I'm trying to build the dev-image with mokomakefile, but it starts way too many processes reserving all of the memory until the computer wents into out-of-memory-free-memory-out-of-memory... loop. Is anyone experiencing this or am I to dump the computer?
Nov 07 10:35:30 <mjr> xzcvczx, 10 euros per month uncapped
Nov 07 10:36:00 <mjr> (speed capped at 384k, like I care with gprs only equipment)
Nov 07 10:38:25 <Batalyx> I think I'm basically asking, that has there been dependency problems lately in the mokomakefile / dev-environment, which have caused an infinite loop of starting up new processes?
Nov 07 10:40:22 <xzcvczx> Batalyx: how much ram/swap?
Nov 07 10:40:33 <CM> Batalyx: I did a build yesterday without any problems
Nov 07 10:41:02 <Batalyx> 4G ram, I think last time there was >2G swap used (but the computer was "dead" already then)
Nov 07 10:41:07 <ScaredyCat> you haven't got silly values for parallel_make andbb_number_threads have you ?
Nov 07 10:41:07 <CM> I think building busybox was tough, something like 780mb ram
Nov 07 10:42:56 <guaqua> my gutsy installation crashes when i build openmoko
Nov 07 10:42:59 <guaqua> go figure
Nov 07 10:43:14 <ScaredyCat> that's not good
Nov 07 10:43:39 <ScaredyCat> CM: wtf - busybox taking 780mb ram? no way
Nov 07 10:44:00 <xzcvczx> ScaredyCat: to build
Nov 07 10:44:01 <CM> ScaredyCat: While compiling
Nov 07 10:44:07 <ScaredyCat> the build is doing something retarded  then
Nov 07 10:44:09 <Batalyx> ScaredyCat: possibly yes :)
Nov 07 10:44:32 <ScaredyCat> I've build busybox on relly crappy machines...
Nov 07 10:44:36 <ScaredyCat> built
Nov 07 10:44:43 <Batalyx> ...but it has worked before, so...
Nov 07 10:46:03 <Batalyx> I think I'll try a clean build first. If that blows the machine, then I start to bribe the IT-support to get me a working computer...
Nov 07 10:46:14 <ScaredyCat> yup - it's oe
Nov 07 10:46:21 <ScaredyCat> "RAM: The build host needs to have at least 512MB of RAM, and about the same amount of swap. Some packages built by OpenEmbedded like busybox are built by compiling all source files into one binary which causes gcc to grow belond 300MB of size and no part of this memory may be on swap for the compile to finish in predictable time. For busybox, this can be turned off, but turning this off means that busybox will not as well optimized by gcc."
Nov 07 10:49:57 <Xx13> planet.openmoko says dialer is fixed, but after ipkg upgrade, it is a broken as before....?
Nov 07 10:52:47 <Xx13> does it work reliably for anyone?
Nov 07 10:53:25 <CM> Not really..
Nov 07 10:53:28 <CM> ;)
Nov 07 10:54:00 <Xx13> phew, and i was thinking i synced to the wrong repository
Nov 07 10:54:43 <CM> Well, if you only update using ipkg it will break
Nov 07 10:55:12 <CM> Or at least probably... There's a lot of changes being done in gsmd
Nov 07 10:55:15 <Xx13> how? and what is the proper way to update? reflash?
Nov 07 10:55:19 <CM> And I don't know about the kernel patches
Nov 07 10:55:45 <CM> Xx13: Using ipkg should be the proper way, but some of this base stuff just isn't stable enough yet for that
Nov 07 10:55:51 <XorA> CM: kernel is locked in OE
Nov 07 10:56:06 <XorA> gsmd causes problems due to ipkg bugs
Nov 07 10:56:08 <CM> XorA: Is the gsmd version too?
Nov 07 10:56:12 <CM> *nod*
Nov 07 10:56:26 <XorA> gsmd is locked, but updates more often than kernel
Nov 07 10:57:01 <CM> And maybe there's feeds that aren't locked too (wich would be unwise to use...)
Nov 07 10:57:20 <XorA> yeah a lot of devs use cutting edge feeds
Nov 07 11:02:12 <emdete> what kind of bug in ipkg?
Nov 07 11:02:13 <flexd> rawr, awsomeness. my bluetooth presence checker works \o/
Nov 07 11:04:40 <XorA> emdete: a package cant RREPLACE relaible when it RPROVIDES
Nov 07 11:04:53 <XorA> emdete: ipkg is a broken pile of crap
Nov 07 11:05:02 <zash> from HELL!
Nov 07 11:05:49 <CM> XorA: And no one is working on it any more or?
Nov 07 11:06:16 <CM> How hard would it be to switch to some other packaging?
Nov 07 11:06:35 <ScaredyCat> isn't the prblem that oe uses it?
Nov 07 11:07:08 <ScaredyCat> I thought I'd read that it was made specifically for oe
Nov 07 11:07:35 <CM> Well, oe can change :D
Nov 07 11:07:47 <ScaredyCat> "Your music library contains 3592 albums with 54498 songs by 3522 artists"
Nov 07 11:07:51 <ScaredyCat> bugger... 
Nov 07 11:08:01 * ScaredyCat wonders why it only reads some tracks :(
Nov 07 11:08:21 <XorA> CM: oe technically supports debian packaging, but it doesnt quite work yet
Nov 07 11:08:36 <XorA> CM: but AFAIK ipkg development halted at hh.org
Nov 07 11:08:43 <CM> *nod*
Nov 07 11:09:17 <CM> ScaredyCat: That's a lot of songs, are they all good? ;)
Nov 07 11:09:30 <ScaredyCat> no... 
Nov 07 11:09:36 <ScaredyCat> sadly...
Nov 07 11:09:42 <ScaredyCat> my wife likes crap music
Nov 07 11:09:57 <flexd> haha
Nov 07 11:10:13 <florian> bedboi: I feel remembered to a release :-)
Nov 07 11:11:22 <CM> ScaredyCat: I think most people have no taste when it comes to music.. :P
Nov 07 11:11:37 <ScaredyCat> except me and you, obviously ;)
Nov 07 11:12:06 <ScaredyCat> now, where are my sclub 7 mp3s
Nov 07 11:12:15 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hehe.. 
Nov 07 11:13:01 <ScaredyCat> at least my cd's can go off to storage .. which is good.
Nov 07 11:13:28 <ScaredyCat> I wonder if they'll be worth something in 100 years..
Nov 07 11:13:53 <CM> They are probably unreadable in just 30 years or so
Nov 07 11:14:54 <ScaredyCat> I'd better put them in air tight bags
Nov 07 11:15:27 <mickeyl> morning folks
Nov 07 11:15:45 <ScaredyCat> errm, afternoon mickeyl :)
Nov 07 11:16:26 <mickeyl> ya, whatever ;)
Nov 07 11:16:35 * mickeyl struggling with his new machine
Nov 07 11:16:39 <ScaredyCat> :o
Nov 07 11:16:43 <mickeyl> ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT giving me hell
Nov 07 11:16:45 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Nov 07 11:16:56 <ScaredyCat> under linux?
Nov 07 11:17:00 <mickeyl> sure
Nov 07 11:17:04 <ScaredyCat> you know the law don't you
Nov 07 11:17:10 <mickeyl> murphy?
Nov 07 11:17:11 <CM> Guess those open drivers aren't really done yet...
Nov 07 11:17:12 <ScaredyCat> ati is shite 
Nov 07 11:17:16 <ScaredyCat> for linux users
Nov 07 11:17:50 * ScaredyCat suggests nvidia as a better decision
Nov 07 11:17:51 <mickeyl> ya, i know. this is the first time I didn't bother with me building the PC. I ordered a custom-built and I could only chose between three different ATI models
Nov 07 11:17:58 <flexd> 8800gts <3
Nov 07 11:20:09 <mickeyl> i was satisfied with my good ole MGA G550 for long
Nov 07 11:20:23 <mickeyl> but it looks like AGP is no longer
Nov 07 11:21:02 <ScaredyCat> I don;t do games and stuff so my intel 945gm is fine for me...
Nov 07 11:21:09 * balrog-kun thought ATI became the good guys now that the drivers are opensource
Nov 07 11:21:13 <ScaredyCat> at least I can tart about with compiz
Nov 07 11:21:20 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat, right
Nov 07 11:21:24 <CM> I have a GeForce 7600 GS and it's been great. No fan either
Nov 07 11:21:31 <ScaredyCat> balrog-kun: no, they're still bad guys.
Nov 07 11:21:31 <flexd> hmm
Nov 07 11:21:39 <flexd> You are all like programming geniouses right? ;)
Nov 07 11:21:44 <flexd> or something
Nov 07 11:21:47 <mickeyl> most of us, yeah
Nov 07 11:21:50 <CM> hehe
Nov 07 11:21:51 * mickeyl chuckles
Nov 07 11:22:00 <CM> flexd: Some of us are just geniouses
Nov 07 11:22:06 <CM> But we can still program.. :P
Nov 07 11:22:07 <flexd> then let me ask a sort of retarded question hehe
Nov 07 11:22:20 <flexd> I'm making a thing that checks if my cell is near my laptop or not, in python (doesnt really matter)
Nov 07 11:22:35 <ScaredyCat> lq
Nov 07 11:22:48 * balrog-kun certainly knows Nvidia are bad guys as well
Nov 07 11:23:00 <ScaredyCat> they're just not as bad...
Nov 07 11:23:03 <mickeyl> essentially all gfx vendors are bad guys
Nov 07 11:23:07 <mickeyl> some more than others
Nov 07 11:23:14 <flexd> and, i can scan for devices and find it, but i need to figure out some genious idea on how to determine if a specific device leaves the bluetooth "zone" or not, there's like 14-15 bluetooth devices in range at all time >_<
Nov 07 11:23:16 <balrog-kun> heh
Nov 07 11:23:27 <ScaredyCat> use the lq flexd
Nov 07 11:23:31 <flexd> what's lq?
Nov 07 11:23:31 <balrog-kun> let's boicott gfs guys and work with no graphical output
Nov 07 11:23:35 <balrog-kun> *gfx
Nov 07 11:23:37 <ScaredyCat> link quality
Nov 07 11:23:41 <mickeyl> hehehe
Nov 07 11:23:44 <ScaredyCat> connect to the device...
Nov 07 11:23:45 <CM> mickeyl: I think intel is ok, even though they're not a pure gfx vendor :)
Nov 07 11:23:54 <mickeyl> balrog-kun: right. now that we hired a gfx artist, let's go ncurses-interfaces
Nov 07 11:23:56 <ScaredyCat> then check the lq
Nov 07 11:24:03 <mickeyl> CM: agreed. that's because Keith works there
Nov 07 11:24:04 <flexd> ScaredyCat: That's sort of alot more advanced
Nov 07 11:24:15 <CM> :)
Nov 07 11:24:17 <ScaredyCat> not really...
Nov 07 11:24:19 <flexd> it will require more code! (i like it!)
Nov 07 11:24:24 <ScaredyCat> familiar with asterisk flexd?
Nov 07 11:24:43 <flexd> nope
Nov 07 11:24:47 <flexd> what is that?
Nov 07 11:24:52 <ScaredyCat> ok, nm
Nov 07 11:25:09 <flexd> i might be able to understand it, if you explain waht it is
Nov 07 11:25:25 <ScaredyCat> it's a linux pased foos pbx
Nov 07 11:25:28 <ScaredyCat> foss
Nov 07 11:25:37 <ScaredyCat> ther's a btp daemon...
Nov 07 11:25:49 * CM waits for the "pbx?" :)
Nov 07 11:25:56 <flexd> im on windows
Nov 07 11:25:57 <mickeyl> hmm
Nov 07 11:26:01 <ScaredyCat> whcih with a bit of modification will do what you want 
Nov 07 11:26:03 <mickeyl> this is my first ubuntu install
Nov 07 11:26:09 <ScaredyCat> flexd: so
Nov 07 11:26:09 <flexd> and it's sort of getting too advanced ^^
Nov 07 11:26:11 <mickeyl> ./autogen.sh: 3: glib-gettextize: not found
Nov 07 11:26:17 <flexd> I'm just doing this for fun, for my bot
Nov 07 11:26:17 <mickeyl> how can i check to which package this belongs?
Nov 07 11:26:20 <ScaredyCat> build the btpd for the neo
Nov 07 11:26:21 <mickeyl> (w/ aptitude?)
Nov 07 11:26:28 <flexd> and eventually making some kind of program for my neo when i get it
Nov 07 11:26:36 <ScaredyCat> synaptics package manager
Nov 07 11:26:37 <ScaredyCat> ?
Nov 07 11:27:04 <mickeyl> ah, GUI to the rescue
Nov 07 11:27:05 * mickeyl tries
Nov 07 11:27:06 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: I expected SuSe for you 
Nov 07 11:27:11 <mickeyl> no no
Nov 07 11:27:17 <flexd> ScaredyCat: i have little to none C experience though :/
Nov 07 11:27:18 <mickeyl> i was a hard core Mandriva user for 6 years
Nov 07 11:27:26 <ScaredyCat> yoink!
Nov 07 11:27:52 <mickeyl> but although i still like it better, i'm afraid ubuntu has more momentum
Nov 07 11:27:55 <ScaredyCat> flexd: it doens't matter... it's easy enough to see what's going on... lemmie dig out the code...
Nov 07 11:28:06 <mickeyl> and it helps to build on the same distribution that users have
Nov 07 11:28:14 <mickeyl> so, I'm configuring ubuntu now
Nov 07 11:28:21 * ScaredyCat shudders
Nov 07 11:28:32 <XorA> libglib2.0-dev: /usr/bin/glib-gettextize
Nov 07 11:28:43 <ynezz> apt-cache search gettextize
Nov 07 11:28:56 <ScaredyCat> the problem with ubuntu is the kernels change, and you don't get the kernel sources for a wekk and a half later
Nov 07 11:29:10 <mickeyl> XorA, ynezz: thanks. apt-cache it is
Nov 07 11:29:38 <guaqua> the lists on openembedded&openmoko wiki are pretty extensive
Nov 07 11:33:03 <flexd> ScaredyCat: you wouldnt happen to know what SDP UUID i need for lq?
Nov 07 11:34:44 <XorA> mickeyl: you will soon start to love apt/dpkg and hate rpm :-D
Nov 07 11:35:36 <ScaredyCat> no. use hci_send_cmd :)
Nov 07 11:40:07 <ScaredyCat> flexd: http://buildhost.automated.it/btp_presence.tar.gz
Nov 07 11:42:30 <flexd> oh
Nov 07 11:42:39 <flexd> im trying to do this the wrong way
Nov 07 11:42:49 <flexd> i was just scanning for bluetooth devices and trying to figure out it
Nov 07 11:42:52 <flexd> figure it out*
Nov 07 11:43:04 <flexd> I can just connect directly and do what you say ;o
Nov 07 11:44:16 <mickeyl> XorA: really? i hope so. it's cultural shock for me right now
Nov 07 11:45:25 <XorA> mickeyl: you'll learn to love working RREPLACE, RCONFLICTS :-D
Nov 07 11:45:26 <ScaredyCat> yes... 
Nov 07 11:45:59 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl apt is really good. and apt-cache search is a very good source of software
Nov 07 11:48:27 <florian> mickeyl: I had the same experience some years ago... the shock should be gone after some time.
Nov 07 11:48:30 <florian> :)
Nov 07 12:05:54 <balrog-kun> yep, almost as good as emerge ;-)
Nov 07 12:06:02 <CM> balrog-kun: Hehe..
Nov 07 12:06:17 <CM> But I'd rather apt-get on my Neo then emerge.. 
Nov 07 12:06:25 <balrog-kun> CM: true
Nov 07 12:06:43 <ScaredyCat> oh god no... emerge ... 
Nov 07 12:07:00 <ScaredyCat> all that masking  and umasking...
Nov 07 12:07:08 <CM> ScaredyCat: Pff.. :P
Nov 07 12:07:13 <ScaredyCat> feck me, just put it in a different repo
Nov 07 12:09:22 <flexd> ScaredyCat: I dont really need to make this as advanced as link quality do i? :p, i can just check if i can connect or not, or if it gets disconnected for some reason
Nov 07 12:10:08 <ScaredyCat> well, I guess not.. unless you want to do things like check how far away you went... 
Nov 07 12:10:22 <flexd> ^^
Nov 07 12:10:26 <ScaredyCat> you can still be connected when you're quite far away
Nov 07 12:10:38 <ScaredyCat> and you might want you pc to lock sooner
Nov 07 12:10:48 <flexd> besides, i cant find any info on link quality trough rfcomm with pybluez/python in any case
Nov 07 12:10:49 <ScaredyCat> there's an app already to do that
Nov 07 12:11:26 <flexd> but that would mean i didnt make it
Nov 07 12:11:28 <flexd> where's the fun in that
Nov 07 12:12:36 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 07 12:12:46 <ScaredyCat> ok, wheel meet flexd ;)
Nov 07 12:13:23 <CM> ScaredyCat: I think he's not old enough to see that shortcuts are good, not cheating.. :P
Nov 07 12:13:39 <ScaredyCat> well, how about a bt radar instead flexd
Nov 07 12:13:43 <ScaredyCat> hehe CM
Nov 07 12:14:03 <flexd> CM: I dont mind shortcuts
Nov 07 12:14:04 <flexd> by all means
Nov 07 12:14:29 <flexd> But i dont want to have to install another program to tangle along with my nifty little python bot for something this basic
Nov 07 12:14:36 <flexd> i know i can get it working to do the stuff
Nov 07 12:14:39 <CM> *nod*
Nov 07 12:14:42 <flexd> but i wont learn more than installing the progrma
Nov 07 12:15:51 <CM> flexd: I've been taking too many shortcuts lately, not getting anything done myself.. ;)
Nov 07 12:16:23 <ScaredyCat> well, I can't use bt on my lappy .. it seems to hate my wireless card :(
Nov 07 12:28:08 <flexd> ScaredyCat: this sucks.
Nov 07 12:28:17 <flexd> pybluez cant do anything like this ;:/
Nov 07 13:11:40 <ScaredyCat> why not flexd?
Nov 07 13:12:28 <flexd> because pybluez doesnt seem to have the ability to get link quality
Nov 07 13:12:33 <flexd> i can open a rfcomm
Nov 07 13:12:39 <flexd> but how would i get link quality?
Nov 07 13:12:44 <flexd> google tells me little :/
Nov 07 13:13:39 <ScaredyCat> well, the docs for pybluez are shit, I agree..
Nov 07 13:14:39 <flexd> :/
Nov 07 13:14:45 <flexd> i got some event codes now
Nov 07 13:14:49 <flexd> gotta figure out wtf they are
Nov 07 13:15:47 <ScaredyCat> look in /usr/share/doc/pyblues-<version>/examples/advanced/
Nov 07 13:16:10 <flexd> <-- windows
Nov 07 13:16:17 <ScaredyCat> oh..
Nov 07 13:16:24 <ScaredyCat> lemmie dl it then
Nov 07 13:18:09 <ScaredyCat> looks like it might help flexd
Nov 07 13:18:22 <flexd> nice:o
Nov 07 13:21:04 <ScaredyCat> http://buildhost.automated.it/blues-exampples-python.tar.gz
Nov 07 13:21:24 <CM> Wow, nice hw: http://www.unwiredview.com/2007/11/06/htc-omni-surfaces-at-google-as-htc-dreamwith-android-os/
Nov 07 13:21:52 <ScaredyCat> I bet you say that to all the girls CM
Nov 07 13:22:13 <CM> ScaredyCat: No, more like "Nice softwares you've got.." ;)
Nov 07 13:22:35 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 07 13:22:38 <CM> ScaredyCat: Or "I'll bring the hardware" (Ouch that was bad..)
Nov 07 13:22:53 * CM hides for a while
Nov 07 13:23:00 <ScaredyCat> I'll bring the hardware, you bring the wetware....
Nov 07 13:24:24 * ScaredyCat pokes flexd
Nov 07 13:26:49 <flexd> sorry, suddnely got people to help here heh
Nov 07 13:26:56 <flexd> im looking
Nov 07 13:28:34 <flexd> and brb again, damnit, stupid work
Nov 07 13:44:21 * flexd is back
Nov 07 13:46:18 <flexd> ScaredyCat: Only problem with that is that the advanced ones are only for linux :/
Nov 07 13:46:33 <flexd> this is one of those days i wish i ran debian fulltime
Nov 07 13:46:50 <ScaredyCat> you can run a vm unser windows :)
Nov 07 13:47:04 <flexd> >_<
Nov 07 13:47:16 <flexd> I'm gonna stick with just the discover device thing
Nov 07 13:47:17 <ScaredyCat> or run windows in a vm
Nov 07 13:47:32 <flexd> Just need a system to find out if a device has earlier been in range
Nov 07 13:47:44 <flexd> why run windows in a vm?
Nov 07 13:47:59 <ScaredyCat> well, you run windows, I was sure there was a reason for it...
Nov 07 13:48:06 <flexd> office requirement
Nov 07 13:49:01 <ScaredyCat> so run it in a vm
Nov 07 13:49:07 <flexd> It's gonna lag?
Nov 07 13:49:17 <ScaredyCat> depends on the host
Nov 07 13:49:32 <flexd> a hp nc6320 laptop
Nov 07 13:49:34 <flexd> c2d something
Nov 07 13:49:51 <flexd> But then again it would be a minimum xp install
Nov 07 13:49:54 <ScaredyCat> runs ok on my lappy, 1.6 ghz cellery
Nov 07 13:50:03 <flexd> i dont think i actually *need* windows either
Nov 07 13:50:05 <ScaredyCat> no that i use it much
Nov 07 13:50:11 <flexd> aslong as i can perform all tasks needed
Nov 07 13:50:25 <flexd> (remote desktop to the win2k3 server, fix shit with office and stuff)
Nov 07 13:50:42 <flexd> surf the web, watch movies like normal during office hours, code python :<
Nov 07 13:53:43 <flexd> (im not the perfect employee until i actually get tasks to do, little to do at support when people dont ask for support :/)
Nov 07 13:54:42 <ScaredyCat> lazy fecking students :P
Nov 07 13:55:41 <zash> flexd: i know the feeling
Nov 07 13:55:54 <buz> woah opera mini sure is neat these days http://www.operamini.com/demo/
Nov 07 13:56:01 <flexd> buz: mhm
Nov 07 13:56:49 <buz> the transparent proxy is particularly useful for overpriced gprs
Nov 07 13:57:01 <Xx13> buz: great web site, kills mozilla
Nov 07 13:57:12 <buz> that would be java, not the website ;)
Nov 07 13:57:32 <zash> yay for java!
Nov 07 13:57:37 <buz> works just fine in my konqui 
Nov 07 13:57:39 <Xx13> maybe my jvm is screwd  ж)
Nov 07 13:58:00 <Stephmw> works fine in FF and Epiphany here :)
Nov 07 13:58:20 <buz> Xx13: probably so
Nov 07 13:58:32 <Xx13>  An unexpected error has been detected by HotSpot Virtual Machine:
Nov 07 13:58:36 <buz> i think its quite remarkable that you can do something like that in J2ME
Nov 07 13:58:40 <Xx13> SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0x00002b1bf7d8d7da, pid=17711, tid=1100601664
Nov 07 13:58:56 <flexd> ScaredyCat: I'm sort of confusing myself with if-sentances here, this probably wont work but; http://rafb.net/p/UEN2Kp41.html
Nov 07 13:59:04 <flexd> if you even remotely understand what im doing in there heh
Nov 07 14:02:03 <ScaredyCat> well, first of all, why on line 11 set somehting you checked
Nov 07 14:02:36 <flexd> ScaredyCat: trying to thing of a system :p
Nov 07 14:02:46 <flexd> if the device is in range, status for that device = 1
Nov 07 14:03:01 <ScaredyCat> yes, but the line before, you check to see if it is 1
Nov 07 14:03:04 <flexd> on the next check, if that device isnt there, set status to 0, or remove it or something
Nov 07 14:03:16 <flexd> right
Nov 07 14:03:35 <flexd> good point
Nov 07 14:03:37 <ScaredyCat> usd is tanking.....
Nov 07 14:03:46 <ScaredyCat> 2.10 == 1gbp
Nov 07 14:04:14 <XorA> ScaredyCat: I shall buy the US in a few days
Nov 07 14:04:29 <CM> The Chinese soon can
Nov 07 14:04:36 <ScaredyCat> I want Alaska
Nov 07 14:04:42 <CM> The US debt to China is getting out of control
Nov 07 14:04:44 <XorA> I want the bit with hot chicks
Nov 07 14:04:48 <ScaredyCat> don't they already own it CM ?
Nov 07 14:04:52 <CM> ScaredyCat: Do that, I'll take Hawai
Nov 07 14:05:22 <ScaredyCat> you'll all be sorry when global warming melts my snow and drowns you all
Nov 07 14:05:45 <ScaredyCat> and then I'll charge you for the water...
Nov 07 14:05:57 <CM> The Oil price is soon 100USD per barrel too, early 1999 it was 9.40, and mid 2003 around 17
Nov 07 14:06:36 <ScaredyCat> 100usd, about 20 pence then ;)
Nov 07 14:07:28 * ScaredyCat wonders when if it's a good time to start buying usd
Nov 07 14:07:54 <flexd> why buy usd? it's like super low atm :/
Nov 07 14:08:00 <flexd> probably wont go up
Nov 07 14:08:02 <ScaredyCat> that's the point...
Nov 07 14:08:06 * arw1 hello people
Nov 07 14:08:14 <flexd> america is going down, the dollar is dead!111
Nov 07 14:08:15 <ScaredyCat> buy low sell high flexd
Nov 07 14:08:27 <ScaredyCat> most of use aren't in the US
Nov 07 14:08:57 <XorA> that internet gambling country problably owns US by now  :-D
Nov 07 14:08:57 <ScaredyCat> even Canadians can speculate on usd
Nov 07 14:08:58 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 07 14:09:53 <nnpiggy> http://www.weymouth.ma.us/schools/esc/index.asp?id=1007 hot American chicks for XorA...
Nov 07 14:10:50 <CM> Hmm.. Sucks to run gentoo when glibc fails to compile, after about 45 minutes.. :P
Nov 07 14:10:59 <XorA> nnpiggy: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
Nov 07 14:11:02 <CM> Trying out patches isn't fast..
Nov 07 14:24:51 <mindshift> where can I buy on of these?
Nov 07 14:24:54 <mindshift> one
Nov 07 14:25:05 <zash> rtft
Nov 07 14:25:07 <ScaredyCat> www.openmoko.com
Nov 07 14:25:15 <zash> read topic i say!
Nov 07 14:27:30 <cb24> zash, what, you mean you're actually expected to read it?
Nov 07 14:27:38 <cb24> that sounds *so* hard
Nov 07 14:28:08 <cjb_ie> those crazy people bothering to write it
Nov 07 14:28:14 <cjb_ie> what drugs are they on!
Nov 07 14:29:35 <ScaredyCat> !ombug 954
Nov 07 14:29:36 <ScaredyCat> cackmonkey
Nov 07 14:29:36 <cdbot2> * * Bug 954, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 07 14:29:37 <cdbot2> * * bugslayer(AT)o2.pl: MokoMakefile does not build image files even after successful packages compilation
Nov 07 14:29:38 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=954
Nov 07 14:30:20 <ScaredyCat> !ombug 953
Nov 07 14:30:21 <cdbot2> * * Bug 953, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown
Nov 07 14:30:22 <cdbot2> * * koen(AT)openembedded.org: openmoko-today r3245 doesn't build
Nov 07 14:30:24 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=953
Nov 07 14:30:27 <ScaredyCat> :/
Nov 07 14:30:41 * ScaredyCat can't rememebr the bleeding bug id
Nov 07 14:41:08 <gi-el> hey, it builds again
Nov 07 14:41:16 <gi-el> see, the kdrive problem solved itself :)
Nov 07 14:41:26 <CM> :)
Nov 07 14:42:01 <cb24> !ombug 957
Nov 07 14:42:02 <cdbot2> * * Bug 957, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 07 14:42:03 <cdbot2> * * <laforge>: No driver for HDQ bus / coulomb counter in new GTA02 battery
Nov 07 14:42:04 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957
Nov 07 14:42:08 <cb24> !ombug 956
Nov 07 14:42:09 <cdbot2> * * Bug 956, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 07 14:42:10 <cdbot2> * * <laforge>: GTA02 charging with 1000mA using wall-outlet charger
Nov 07 14:42:11 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=956
Nov 07 14:42:17 <ScaredyCat> !!!!!
Nov 07 14:42:19 <cb24> those are my two favourite bugs at the moment
Nov 07 14:42:52 <CM> cb24: What did you do with cb23 btw? ;)
Nov 07 14:43:12 <cb24> CM, heh, instead of adding a _ i just up my number :)
Nov 07 14:43:42 <CM> cb22: You should say that you're just getting older :)
Nov 07 14:43:56 <cb22> heh, the 22 has nothing to do with my age
Nov 07 14:44:01 <cb22> i'm 16 or so
Nov 07 14:44:20 <cb16> just doesnt have the same ring to it...
Nov 07 14:45:55 <vivijim> hey guys, when will new device (gta02?) be available for shop?
Nov 07 14:46:15 <cb22> <zash> read topic i say!
Nov 07 14:46:15 <cb22> <cb24> zash, what, you mean you're actually expected to read it?
Nov 07 14:46:15 <cb22> <cb24> that sounds *so* hard
Nov 07 14:46:26 <vivijim> ops, sorry! hehehe
Nov 07 14:46:32 <cb22> :), december as of last info
Nov 07 14:46:52 <XorA> bad vivijim :-D
Nov 07 14:47:14 <zash> topic does not fit in 80x25-xterm+irssi.. file a bug, someone!
Nov 07 14:47:19 <vivijim> XorA: stupid vivijim I'd say
Nov 07 14:47:58 <gi-el> zash: or, you type /t
Nov 07 14:48:02 <gi-el> zash: or, you read it on join
Nov 07 14:48:40 <gi-el> btw, what's up with android? are you guys involved with that? :P
Nov 07 14:49:32 <cb22> Also, don't bring up Android for your own safety, thanks
Nov 07 14:49:36 <zash> gi-el: irssi + screen + someone elses server + ups ;) .. i dont join
Nov 07 14:49:44 <gi-el> zash: still, /t
Nov 07 14:50:05 <zash> :D
Nov 07 14:50:07 <ScaredyCat> what was the dbus list command for gconftool again?
Nov 07 14:50:41 <gi-el> 19:05 < mickeyl> gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/poky/interface/wallpaper /usr/share/pixmaps/foo.png
Nov 07 14:50:45 <gi-el> 19:05 < jeddy3> mickeyl, aah! gconftool, didn't realize i had a gconf-register on my phone =)
Nov 07 14:50:48 <gi-el> 00:07 < abraxa_> mwester:  dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /desktop/poky/interface/digital_clock false
Nov 07 14:50:52 <gi-el> 21:52 < abraxa_> dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /desktop/poky/interface/digital_clock false
Nov 07 14:50:55 <gi-el> 22:03 < abraxa_> ScaredyCat: "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -R /" shows you everything GConf has to offer
Nov 07 14:50:59 <gi-el> one of those?
Nov 07 14:51:01 <gi-el> :)
Nov 07 14:51:03 <gi-el> the last one, pbly
Nov 07 14:51:07 <ScaredyCat> that's the one :)
Nov 07 14:51:12 <ScaredyCat> the last one
Nov 07 14:51:13 <gi-el> yay for lastlog! :)
Nov 07 14:51:14 <ScaredyCat> ta
Nov 07 14:52:42 <ScaredyCat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1O2jcfOylU
Nov 07 14:54:35 <CM> ScaredyCat: Get three nice LCD's and use this wallpaper too: http://desktopgaming.com/display.php?file_id=225
Nov 07 14:57:11 <gi-el> CM: 2 will do
Nov 07 14:57:35 <CM> Two nice widescreens yes :)
Nov 07 14:58:14 <gi-el> even two un-widescreens
Nov 07 14:58:18 <gi-el> 1600x1200 is not wide
Nov 07 14:59:24 * CM can't count today :)
Nov 07 14:59:35 <ScaredyCat> 3200x1200
Nov 07 15:06:13 <zash> CM: count? who does that anymore?
Nov 07 15:06:27 <zash> why do you think the calculator was invented?
Nov 07 15:06:29 <zash> ;D
Nov 07 15:06:40 <zash> also, bc+xterm ftw
Nov 07 15:15:40 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3366 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 07 15:15:40 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
Nov 07 15:15:40 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.c:
Nov 07 15:15:40 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.h:
Nov 07 15:15:40 <CIA-13> openmoko: Add a generic progress dialog class
Nov 07 15:16:08 <gi-el> zash: dc!
Nov 07 15:16:19 <ScaredyCat> you know the analog clock..
Nov 07 15:16:26 <ScaredyCat> why is it wrong?
Nov 07 15:16:54 <zash> tz/dst?
Nov 07 15:17:19 <_diego_> date what does it say?
Nov 07 15:17:32 <ScaredyCat>  date
Nov 07 15:17:32 <ScaredyCat> Wed Nov  7 15:14:24 GMT 2007
Nov 07 15:17:41 <ScaredyCat> clock says 5 to 3
Nov 07 15:18:04 <ScaredyCat> oops
Nov 07 15:18:05 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 07 15:18:11 <ScaredyCat> did date on wrong box
Nov 07 15:18:18 <CM> Hehe
Nov 07 15:19:09 <zash> Wed Nov  7 16:19:09 CET 2007
Nov 07 15:27:13 <flexd> gdamnit, f*cking irssi :
Nov 07 15:28:13 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3367 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/ipkgapi.c src/ipkgapi.h): 
Nov 07 15:28:13 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/ipkgapi.c:
Nov 07 15:28:13 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/ipkgapi.h:
Nov 07 15:28:13 <CIA-13> openmoko: Add ipkg_update_cmd() to update the package lists
Nov 07 15:31:25 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3368 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/ipkg-utils.c src/ipkg-utils.h): 
Nov 07 15:31:25 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c:
Nov 07 15:31:25 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.h:
Nov 07 15:31:25 <CIA-13> openmoko: - Use generic progress dialog to display progress of ipkg functions
Nov 07 15:31:25 <CIA-13> openmoko: - Add package list update functionality
Nov 07 15:33:01 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3369 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/appmanager-window.c src/tool-box.c): 
Nov 07 15:33:01 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/appmanager-window.c: (main): Request a package list update if the
Nov 07 15:33:01 <CIA-13> openmoko: package list could not be opened.
Nov 07 15:33:01 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/tool-box.c: (on_upgrade_clicked): Use the upgrade button to
Nov 07 15:33:01 <CIA-13> openmoko: update the package list
Nov 07 15:48:33 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3370 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/am-progress-dialog.h src/ipkg-utils.c): 
Nov 07 15:48:33 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.h:
Nov 07 15:48:33 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c:
Nov 07 15:48:33 <CIA-13> openmoko: Fix compiler warnings
Nov 07 15:50:59 <zash> is there any plans for a sms progarm?
Nov 07 15:51:36 <CM> Yikes.. the last updates to ipkg was 9 months ago, but that was just a few things.. Most other things seem to be at least 2 years old..
Nov 07 15:52:18 <mickeyl> yeah, ipkg is patheitc
Nov 07 15:52:21 <mickeyl> pathetic, even
Nov 07 15:52:28 <mickeyl> but it works and we know its quirks
Nov 07 15:52:34 <CM> *nod*
Nov 07 15:52:38 <ScaredyCat> ipkg upgrade ipkg
Nov 07 15:52:39 <mickeyl> makes it tough to invest a _lot_ of time doing something new
Nov 07 15:53:33 <CM> Can understand that. Just that if feels a bit uncertain to depend on it when it's kind of abandoned
Nov 07 15:54:25 <ScaredyCat> what's up with it... ?
Nov 07 15:54:33 <ScaredyCat> I mean it works, right?
Nov 07 15:55:16 <martin_lundstrom> Hello folks
Nov 07 15:56:01 <xaid|work> martin_lundstrom: Hello
Nov 07 15:58:20 <martin_lundstrom> Does anyone know if it is possible to have gprs going in the background and make a normal voice telephone call?
Nov 07 15:58:40 <martin_lundstrom> at the same time
Nov 07 16:02:49 <CM> ScaredyCat: http://rafb.net/p/523odT40.html
Nov 07 16:19:53 <martin_lundstrom> openmoko.org
Nov 07 16:19:58 <martin_lundstrom> openmoko.com
Nov 07 16:20:38 <martin_lundstrom> sorry
Nov 07 16:21:16 <martin_lundstrom> cunfused ;)
Nov 07 16:27:24 <blinx> neo_modem_switch: Modem powered up.
Nov 07 16:27:24 <blinx> neo_modem_rst_switch: Modem reset.
Nov 07 16:27:46 <blinx> latest scaredycat's image
Nov 07 16:28:11 <Writchie|> martin_lunstrom: neo is Class B - GPRS session will be suspended during voice or CSD call
Nov 07 16:28:18 <blinx> with qemu. On the screen is written: "Please wait..." but there is something wrong.. anyone an idea?
Nov 07 16:28:29 <torpor> scarey:
Nov 07 16:28:29 <torpor> mtn: warning: Failed to write options file _MTN/options: misuse: cannot open file _MTN/data.tmp.5448 for writing
Nov 07 16:28:32 <torpor> mtn: error: sqlite error: unable to open database file
Nov 07 16:28:37 <torpor> what does this mean?
Nov 07 16:30:31 <martin_lundstrom> Writchie|: Will that ever change?
Nov 07 16:31:23 <Writchie|> future phones MAY support DTM but it is more likely that the first neo devices to support this will be 3G devices. 
Nov 07 16:32:19 <martin_lundstrom> so it wont change in the neo1973
Nov 07 16:32:50 <Writchie|> not likely
Nov 07 16:32:56 <martin_lundstrom> ok
Nov 07 16:33:51 <Writchie|> martin_lunstrom: it's possible that the DTM feature is available in the firmware and could be enabled but this feature also requires support from the network. 
Nov 07 16:36:01 <PBeck> hi
Nov 07 16:38:18 <dashavoo> I have been looking through the wiki etc. but im still unsure... what functionality will the GTA02 have? I cant tell what is actual functionality, what is wishlist functionality, etc.
Nov 07 16:39:07 <martin_lundstrom> dashavoo: there is aparently happening much
Nov 07 16:39:11 <ScaredyCat> "the make's womens clothes fall off" is a wishlist item... can't remember who wished for that one...
Nov 07 16:39:25 <CM> dashavoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29
Nov 07 16:40:35 <blinx> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/9463/ <- how I can skip this check in qemu and disable the sound or change the sound device to my real one?
Nov 07 16:41:23 <dashavoo> CM, that tells me what hardware it will have, but what about actual functions, i.e. dialer, sms, browser
Nov 07 16:43:09 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: hahaha
Nov 07 16:43:16 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: hopefully tweakable...
Nov 07 16:43:20 <blinx> ScaredyCat: here?
Nov 07 16:43:29 * mickeyl imagines a lot of women he doesn't want to see naked
Nov 07 16:43:34 <blinx> ScaredyCat: some trouble with your images...
Nov 07 16:43:52 <blinx> especially your latest one doesn't want to work
Nov 07 16:44:13 <blinx> it makes problems with the sound see: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/9463/#
Nov 07 16:44:55 <ScaredyCat> I've just flshed it onto my neo, testing it now
Nov 07 16:45:03 <ScaredyCat> flashed
Nov 07 16:45:16 <blinx> it tries and tries again but openmoko doesn't go on with the boot progress, now my question: how I can fix that or how can I turn off the sound?
Nov 07 17:00:59 <blinx> ScaredyCat: ping
Nov 07 17:01:43 <blinx> ScaredyCat: qemu blocks /dev/dsp itselves 
Nov 07 17:02:09 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03olv * r3371 10/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2/ (54 files in 6 dirs): 
Nov 07 17:02:09 <CIA-13> openmoko: Release openmoko-agpsui2 (with modifications) under GPLv2 or later.
Nov 07 17:02:09 <CIA-13> openmoko: The author is Ken Yale from Global Locate (now Broadcom).
Nov 07 17:02:32 <abraxa_> Interesting :O
Nov 07 17:03:30 <CoreDump> hmmm, what about a working driver? Or did I miss something?
Nov 07 17:03:45 <emdete> hm, i need some help with ipkg. mine doesnt install anything anymore. see http://rafb.net/p/imXArl43.html 
Nov 07 17:04:21 <CoreDump> "annot find package libwebkitgtk1."
Nov 07 17:04:44 <CoreDump> your package probably has the wrong ARCH (armv4t)
Nov 07 17:05:14 <emdete> CoreDump: i did not choose the arch, i use mokomakefile ;) 
Nov 07 17:05:32 <emdete> CoreDump: it's a ScaredyCat image... is that different?
Nov 07 17:05:44 <CoreDump> check /etc/ipkg/arch.conf if it contains this arch
Nov 07 17:05:51 <CoreDump> emdete: I dunno
Nov 07 17:07:14 <emdete> CoreDump: shit, that file is missing... whats in there, normaly?
Nov 07 17:07:24 <CoreDump> all arches =)
Nov 07 17:07:32 <ScaredyCat> mmm... odd
Nov 07 17:07:41 <ScaredyCat> it's on mine
Nov 07 17:07:48 <emdete> cat you paste that for me - i probably deleted it myself... :(
Nov 07 17:07:51 <CoreDump> I don't have a build-env or neo handy or I'd pastebin it for you
Nov 07 17:07:52 <ScaredyCat> muppey
Nov 07 17:07:56 <ScaredyCat> -y+t
Nov 07 17:08:29 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03olv * r3372 10/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2/lto/.deps/: remove generated files
Nov 07 17:08:51 <CoreDump> reviving a P0 w/ drained battery literally takes for ever
Nov 07 17:08:52 <blinx> ScaredyCat: what can I do?
Nov 07 17:08:54 <ScaredyCat> http://rafb.net/p/v0RLQj88.html
Nov 07 17:08:57 <emdete> ScaredyCat: sry. :D i have a script that fixes some things after flashing over ssh. there was a bug in there, that's probably one of the effects..
Nov 07 17:11:11 * ScaredyCat wonders if openmoko-agpsui2 builfds
Nov 07 17:11:29 <ScaredyCat> blinx: sorry I know nowt about qemu...
Nov 07 17:11:38 <ScaredyCat> is sound configgled?
Nov 07 17:12:16 <blinx> ScaredyCat: previous versions worked
Nov 07 17:12:25 <blinx> can I deactivate the sound anywhere?
Nov 07 17:12:52 <ScaredyCat> hrmm... I'll have a play
Nov 07 17:14:39 <ScaredyCat> that reminds me, thanks CoreDump
Nov 07 17:14:53 * ScaredyCat charges 2nd battery
Nov 07 17:15:09 <CoreDump> ScaredyCat: ;)
Nov 07 17:15:30 <CoreDump> charging over USB just hasn't enough oomph for the neo
Nov 07 17:15:30 <mickeyl> it should be better now that the 50mA bug has been fixed
Nov 07 17:15:46 <ScaredyCat> roflmao.... 50ma?
Nov 07 17:15:48 <CoreDump> mib_force: it will charge faster when turned off now?
Nov 07 17:16:21 <CoreDump> ScaredyCat: dead battery = can't turn on neo = always charges w/ 50mA....
Nov 07 17:16:28 * ScaredyCat pokes mickeyl with a large root vegetable
Nov 07 17:16:30 <mickeyl> it now charges w/ 100mA
Nov 07 17:16:41 <CoreDump> mickeyl: that is great news =)
Nov 07 17:16:47 <mickeyl> some register typo in the PMU settings
Nov 07 17:16:49 <mickeyl> heh
Nov 07 17:16:54 <ljp> where was that fixed?
Nov 07 17:17:00 <ScaredyCat> ok, so it was supposed to do 100 or 500 but was only doing @ 50 ?
Nov 07 17:17:09 <mickeyl> no, the 500 is not affected
Nov 07 17:17:18 <ScaredyCat> k
Nov 07 17:17:20 <mickeyl> it's the unenumerated -- aka dumb charger mode 
Nov 07 17:17:30 <mickeyl> ljp: kernel or uboot, or both, dunno
Nov 07 17:17:32 <CoreDump> mickeyl: has the u-boot "charger" function been fixed? changing it manually from fast to slow did nothing when I checked
Nov 07 17:17:42 <mickeyl> CoreDump: no idea, sorry
Nov 07 17:18:33 <emdete> hm, since when doesn't mokomakefile build the dependend .ipk?
Nov 07 17:18:40 <emdete> is there a option for that?
Nov 07 17:19:12 <CoreDump> ScaredyCat: it was supposed to do 100ma when I only did 50mA. This bug only occurs when the neo is turned off. A booted neo will charge w/ 500mA
Nov 07 17:19:52 * ScaredyCat charges a suitcase full or batteries
Nov 07 17:19:55 <ScaredyCat> of
Nov 07 17:20:11 * CoreDump did a bit of measuring a while ago http://hentges.net/tmp/photos/Neo1973/charging/
Nov 07 17:20:25 <emdete> ScaredyCat: :D how do you change battery without rebooting? do you have a trick for that?
Nov 07 17:20:47 <ScaredyCat> I wire a potato in parallel
Nov 07 17:20:56 <CoreDump> =D
Nov 07 17:20:58 <mmontour> ljp: the 100mA u-boot fix was r3147
Nov 07 17:22:06 <ScaredyCat> CoreDump: who the hell has a desk that tidy!
Nov 07 17:22:15 <CoreDump> hehe
Nov 07 17:22:27 <Writchie> ljp: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762
Nov 07 17:22:52 <ljp> thanks
Nov 07 17:23:09 <CoreDump> ScaredyCat: heh indeed. That wasn't my own desk...guess why
Nov 07 17:23:46 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 07 17:24:08 <ljp> hmmm. ok moko12
Nov 07 17:26:11 <ScaredyCat> moko12
Nov 07 17:26:44 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3373 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 07 17:26:44 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/appmanager-data.h:
Nov 07 17:26:44 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/navigation-area.c: (on_selection_changed),
Nov 07 17:26:44 <CIA-13> openmoko: (navigation_area_new):
Nov 07 17:26:44 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/search-bar.c: (search_bar_new):
Nov 07 17:26:46 <CIA-13> openmoko: Add package name text search support
Nov 07 17:28:29 <mmontour> Looks like the "latest" uboot built by MokoMakefile still has the 50mA bug (svn2943)
Nov 07 17:29:47 <CoreDump> mmontour: really? :\
Nov 07 17:30:29 * ScaredyCat rebuilds uboot
Nov 07 17:32:14 <ScaredyCat> or not :/
Nov 07 17:32:56 <ScaredyCat> CROSS_COMPILE=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi- fic-gta01_config
Nov 07 17:33:03 <ScaredyCat> that space shouldn't be there, right?
Nov 07 17:33:50 <abraxa_> Doubtful
Nov 07 17:35:11 <mickeyl> looks good to me
Nov 07 17:35:24 <mickeyl> fic-gta01_config is the actual config for uboot
Nov 07 17:35:41 <mickeyl> arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi- is the compiler prefix
Nov 07 17:35:48 <abraxa_> Oh, interesting
Nov 07 17:35:55 <abraxa_> I wouldn't have guessed that either :)
Nov 07 17:36:39 <ScaredyCat> mmmmmm
Nov 07 17:37:31 <mmontour> On my system I edited the openembedded/packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko[...]+svn2943.bb file and set UBOOT_OPENMOKO_REV = "3147"
Nov 07 17:37:49 <mmontour> It worked for me, but try at your own risk (I have a debug board...)
Nov 07 17:38:07 <mickeyl> the problem with later uboot revs is the infamous boot hang
Nov 07 17:38:24 <CM> Yikes
Nov 07 17:38:42 <mickeyl> !ombug 887
Nov 07 17:38:44 <cdbot2> * * Bug 887, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown
Nov 07 17:38:45 <cdbot2> * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: U-Boot initialization race condition: Hangs on boot
Nov 07 17:38:46 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=887
Nov 07 17:38:53 <mickeyl> yo woglinde 
Nov 07 17:39:14 <Stephmw> hey woglinde 
Nov 07 17:39:49 <CM> OperaMini 4 was impressive
Nov 07 17:40:04 <mmontour> I had the same boot hang problem with the svn2943 rev. It works if I hold the Aux button to get to the uboot menu.
Nov 07 17:40:07 <Stephmw> CM: enjoyed the ride?
Nov 07 17:40:34 <CM> Stephmw: It actually felt fast on my W610
Nov 07 17:40:55 * ScaredyCat stares at but 887
Nov 07 17:41:00 <ScaredyCat> bug
Nov 07 17:41:08 * ScaredyCat gets a poking stick
Nov 07 17:41:11 <xkr47> hello
Nov 07 17:41:53 <xkr47> any quick answer for what to do when getting Disk full during ipkg upgrade
Nov 07 17:42:14 <xkr47> I haven't installed anything much, mostly been upgrading
Nov 07 17:42:38 <CM> Reflash? ;)
Nov 07 17:42:41 <xkr47> ...
Nov 07 17:42:56 <xkr47> so what does ipkg upgrade do that consumes disk space that a reflash doesn't ?-)
Nov 07 17:42:58 <ScaredyCat> when you delete stuff the space dosn't 'appear' immediately
Nov 07 17:43:07 <xkr47> oh
Nov 07 17:43:16 <xkr47> rootfs feature ?
Nov 07 17:43:20 <ScaredyCat> it's the files system
Nov 07 17:43:26 <xkr47> right
Nov 07 17:44:01 <xkr47> have the microsd flash write problems that were visible in dmesg in august been worked out ?
Nov 07 17:44:43 <CM> "About every three months this year there has been a mobile Linux initiative of some sort launched. It's a bit like the common cold. It keeps coming round and then we go back to business." - Symbian vice president, John Forsyth
Nov 07 17:45:05 <xkr47> heh
Nov 07 17:45:07 <ScaredyCat> "runs in the background, turning dirty blocks into free blocks. It does this by copying valid nodes to a new block and skipping obsolete ones. That done, it erases the dirty block and tags it with a special marker designating it as a free block"
Nov 07 17:45:53 <Writchie> CM: and ten years ago every 3 months we had another search engine ;)
Nov 07 17:45:57 <xkr47> CM, eventually they will use Linux, so their point about symbian is moot, but their unspoken point about them ruling the world is actually what is the case
Nov 07 17:46:09 <xkr47> Writchie, :)
Nov 07 17:46:13 <CM> Hehe
Nov 07 17:46:26 * ScaredyCat pats dogpile
Nov 07 17:48:41 <ScaredyCat> well, symbian sucks..
Nov 07 17:49:01 <ScaredyCat> any phone that needs to reboot to close applications is retarded..
Nov 07 17:49:37 <ScaredyCat> although that's probably becasue SE got hold of it...
Nov 07 17:49:48 <ScaredyCat> and probably isn;t symbian per se
Nov 07 17:50:11 <ewon> heh
Nov 07 17:50:12 <ScaredyCat> but since when did the facts get in the way of me detesting somehting
Nov 07 17:50:41 <emdete> developing for symbian must be hell - the realtime features of symbian must be better that those in linux... as some collegs told me.
Nov 07 17:50:43 <ScaredyCat> same goes for dbus stuff too... 
Nov 07 17:50:54 * ScaredyCat pokes mickeyl
Nov 07 17:51:17 <mickeyl> ?
Nov 07 17:51:26 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 07 17:51:42 * mickeyl continues watching his first OM build on Gutsy
Nov 07 17:51:43 <ScaredyCat> I was just saying what a sack of shit symbian was...
Nov 07 17:51:51 <ScaredyCat> on SE phones..
Nov 07 17:51:58 <ScaredyCat> requiring reboots n all...
Nov 07 17:52:03 <mickeyl> that's retarded
Nov 07 17:52:10 <torpor> anyone working on some new apps?
Nov 07 17:52:13 <CM> ScaredyCat: I've never had to reboot my w610 yet
Nov 07 17:52:20 <CM> Except when changing sim card
Nov 07 17:52:50 <CM> Haven't installed any new native apps though, just j2me
Nov 07 17:52:53 <ScaredyCat> and it reminded me  how changes with dbus on the neo seem to require a n app restart, which in the case of today2 is as good as a reboot
Nov 07 17:53:15 <ScaredyCat> I gave my p910i to the wife...
Nov 07 17:53:16 <mickeyl> hmm
Nov 07 17:53:19 <ScaredyCat> is eas that bad
Nov 07 17:53:21 <ScaredyCat> was
Nov 07 17:53:24 <mickeyl> what do you think of exactly?
Nov 07 17:53:25 <Stephmw> CM: you can use native apps on there? my W880i doesn't seem to have any available
Nov 07 17:53:30 <mickeyl> [dbus today, app restart]
Nov 07 17:54:18 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: ? /me no understandy
Nov 07 17:54:52 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: the p sony ericssons had a really shitty VM
Nov 07 17:55:16 <ScaredyCat> for something like the clock for example: setting digital_clock false will require an app restart... 
Nov 07 17:55:38 <ScaredyCat> I'm assuming because the dbus config is only read at startup of the app..?
Nov 07 17:56:25 <ScaredyCat> imho a change int he config should be a trigger.. 
Nov 07 17:57:01 <mickeyl> aah
Nov 07 17:57:04 <mickeyl> right
Nov 07 17:57:06 <mickeyl> that's not a problem
Nov 07 17:57:14 <mickeyl> we can't fix
Nov 07 17:57:23 <mickeyl> gconf provides a call for notification
Nov 07 17:57:27 <mickeyl> the apps just need to use that
Nov 07 17:57:32 <ScaredyCat> ah ok...
Nov 07 17:58:01 <mickeyl> right now they only read on startup, but eventually they'll listen to it
Nov 07 17:58:06 <zecke> mickeyl: gutsy? finally left rpm's behind?
Nov 07 17:58:19 <ScaredyCat> ok, that's good, ta mickeyl
Nov 07 17:58:39 <guaqua> is gutsy running okay on your computers?
Nov 07 17:58:40 <mickeyl> np
Nov 07 17:58:46 <mickeyl> zecke: yeah... well let's see
Nov 07 17:58:53 <mickeyl> right now Ubuntu looks good
Nov 07 17:58:57 <guaqua> mine just crashes at some point when i try building something bigger
Nov 07 17:59:02 <mickeyl> although everything takes long because i don't find things
Nov 07 17:59:05 <zecke> mickeyl: congrats, and you use gnome as well?
Nov 07 17:59:09 <mickeyl> zecke: yep
Nov 07 17:59:10 <ScaredyCat> busybox still guaqua?
Nov 07 17:59:16 <zecke> hehe
Nov 07 17:59:20 <guaqua> never was busybox
Nov 07 17:59:26 <mickeyl> zecke: gnome desktop, but kdevelop and konsole ;)
Nov 07 17:59:28 <guaqua> crashes are random
Nov 07 17:59:40 <mickeyl> and some other kde apps
Nov 07 17:59:40 <guaqua> came along with gutsy
Nov 07 18:05:10 <hrw> mickeyl: switch to "kubuntu" then?
Nov 07 18:05:27 <mickeyl> no need to. i already aptitude'd kubuntu-desktop
Nov 07 18:05:29 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Want an OE recipe for openmoko-agpsui2?
Nov 07 18:05:40 <ScaredyCat> yes please :)
Nov 07 18:05:46 <hrw> abraxa_: openmoko-agpsui2 is useless anyway
Nov 07 18:05:55 <ScaredyCat> :(
Nov 07 18:06:05 <abraxa_> hrw: Why?
Nov 07 18:06:07 <hrw> officially only few devs have gllin which this tool require
Nov 07 18:06:31 <abraxa_> So? Can't harm to let people have a look
Nov 07 18:06:41 <CM> Does it include the chroot?
Nov 07 18:06:47 <abraxa_> No
Nov 07 18:06:48 <CM> I mean openmoko-agpsui2?
Nov 07 18:06:51 <CM> ok
Nov 07 18:07:35 <hrw> its like mokostat - tool which was written and is not usable yet
Nov 07 18:07:56 * ScaredyCat bitches and moans about gps
Nov 07 18:07:57 <hrw> not to mention that mokostat use gpsd interface which has nothing common with gta01 gps
Nov 07 18:08:08 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndnsorg:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb - not the prettiest but it's the only way I got AUTOREV to actually work
Nov 07 18:08:22 <abraxa_> http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb
Nov 07 18:08:39 <hrw> Iceweasel can't find the server at www.abraxa.dyndns.org
Nov 07 18:08:55 <abraxa_> Huh?
Nov 07 18:09:07 <CM> Works here
Nov 07 18:09:27 <hrw> abraxa_: SRCREV ?= "${AUTOREV}" should be enough
Nov 07 18:09:37 <dashavoo> does gps on the neo1973 have the possibility to ever be as good as a standalone satnav?
Nov 07 18:09:47 <CoreDump> not reachable from here either
Nov 07 18:09:47 <abraxa_> hrw: Thanks, I'll try that
Nov 07 18:09:50 <dashavoo> (thought id ask while it was on topic)
Nov 07 18:09:53 <hrw> www.abraxa does not works - firefox added www.
Nov 07 18:10:01 <ScaredyCat> missed the . before org
Nov 07 18:10:10 <hrw> dashavoo: if someone will write apps for navigation...
Nov 07 18:10:27 <hrw> dashavoo: biggest problem with navigation software is lack of good maps to use
Nov 07 18:11:06 <ScaredyCat> eeer 
Nov 07 18:11:08 <dashavoo> hmm... none available for free?
Nov 07 18:11:51 <buz> dashavoo: i think nokia maps are available, but not sure what license
Nov 07 18:11:54 <abraxa_> hrw: No go... svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2' in revision 1
Nov 07 18:11:56 <buz> probably only for use with nokia hardware
Nov 07 18:12:23 <dashavoo> il google it and see :)
Nov 07 18:13:12 <hrw> buz: rather not available for free - they paid for them
Nov 07 18:13:41 <buz> i did read something about free navigation on nokia phones but pay if you want voice out
Nov 07 18:13:47 <buz> not sure what they do with the maps
Nov 07 18:15:15 * hrw -> off to place http://www.scan.co.uk/images/products/608227-A.jpg where it should be
Nov 07 18:15:39 <ScaredyCat> you sure that works for you abraxa_ ?
Nov 07 18:16:04 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Yeah, worked fine for me. Do you get errors?
Nov 07 18:16:06 <dashavoo> hrw|gone, nice, im building me a new pc as soon as I find someone to buy the car im selling :P
Nov 07 18:16:29 <dashavoo> buz, looks like the same deal with the maps as the navigation etc.
Nov 07 18:16:55 <ScaredyCat> http://pastebin.ca/764945
Nov 07 18:18:01 <ScaredyCat> that autorev not getting translated?
Nov 07 18:19:01 <dashavoo> openstreetmap looks like it might be useful in the future
Nov 07 18:20:05 <SpeedEvil> Large parts of the US have already got 100% complete mapping. All of NL does.
Nov 07 18:20:24 <dashavoo> I care more about the UK than the US
Nov 07 18:20:28 <SpeedEvil> The tiger data import is proceeding slowly (Import of US government dataset of roads)
Nov 07 18:20:43 <SpeedEvil> I added a road yesterday to the UK.
Nov 07 18:20:53 <dashavoo> cool
Nov 07 18:20:57 <dashavoo> how do you add to it?
Nov 07 18:21:04 <SpeedEvil> Take a GPS trace.
Nov 07 18:21:10 <SpeedEvil> Load into editor.
Nov 07 18:21:20 <SpeedEvil> create appropriate class of road along it.
Nov 07 18:21:30 <SpeedEvil> And features, ...
Nov 07 18:22:07 <dashavoo> that doesnt sound too bad, I might have a go sometime
Nov 07 18:22:16 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: forcing the autore to 3372 fixed it - I don;t think autorev is anythign/
Nov 07 18:22:57 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Yeah, didn't wanna use a fixed rev, though that AUTOREV construct did work for me. The SVN fetcher is a mystery to me.
Nov 07 18:23:15 <SpeedEvil> dashavoo: irc.oftc.net #osm
Nov 07 18:23:22 <ScaredyCat> SpeedEvil: I'd debate "All of .nl"
Nov 07 18:23:32 <SpeedEvil> ScaredyCat: ?
Nov 07 18:23:43 <ScaredyCat> my house aint there
Nov 07 18:23:56 <SpeedEvil> As I understood it, all the roads are present.
Nov 07 18:24:12 <enjahova> u live in nl ScaredyCat 
Nov 07 18:24:13 <ScaredyCat> wait
Nov 07 18:24:14 <enjahova> ?
Nov 07 18:24:17 <ScaredyCat> holy crap...
Nov 07 18:24:29 <ScaredyCat> they updated it recently?
Nov 07 18:24:38 <ScaredyCat> enjahova: yes, and in the uk... 
Nov 07 18:24:47 <ScaredyCat> moving house
Nov 07 18:24:49 <enjahova> do you speak dutch?
Nov 07 18:24:54 <ScaredyCat> when this one sells
Nov 07 18:24:59 <enjahova> ah
Nov 07 18:25:14 <ScaredyCat> een klein beetje
Nov 07 18:25:16 <SpeedEvil> ScaredyCat: there has recently been a _large_ import of data from the company AND
Nov 07 18:25:21 <SpeedEvil> which covered .nl
Nov 07 18:25:52 <ScaredyCat> yes, I take back what I said...
Nov 07 18:26:01 <ScaredyCat> that coverage is fecking awesome... 
Nov 07 18:26:09 <ScaredyCat> it wasn;t there last time i looked..
Nov 07 18:26:09 <SpeedEvil> In a way, this is not so much openstreetmap.
Nov 07 18:26:26 <SpeedEvil> It's simply someone giving away traditionally gathered map data
Nov 07 18:26:35 <SpeedEvil> however.
Nov 07 18:26:37 <ScaredyCat> yeah, but it's still freely available...
Nov 07 18:26:54 <SpeedEvil> In some places in the UK, there are large patches - for example much of london - which are covered
Nov 07 18:28:59 <ScaredyCat> yeah, london is always going to get done first...
Nov 07 18:29:14 <ScaredyCat> but that .nl coverage... well... I just got up off the floor
Nov 07 18:29:42 <enjahova> where did you look to see it?
Nov 07 18:30:35 <dashavoo> I hope the West Midlands gets done pretty quickly, itd be awesome
Nov 07 18:31:05 <ScaredyCat> enjahova: www.openstreetmap.org
Nov 07 18:31:32 <ScaredyCat> zoom in on .nl 
Nov 07 18:32:15 <enjahova> nice
Nov 07 18:32:48 <ScaredyCat> yeah, very.
Nov 07 18:33:16 <enjahova> i want to move back ^_^
Nov 07 18:33:23 <enjahova> does OM work there?
Nov 07 18:33:28 <ScaredyCat> well, I just found a big gap...
Nov 07 18:33:37 <ScaredyCat> wanna buy a house :)
Nov 07 18:33:48 <ScaredyCat> yeah, I have mine beside me :)
Nov 07 18:33:49 <enjahova> haha, i'm just a student =\
Nov 07 18:33:57 <ScaredyCat> start saving
Nov 07 18:34:10 <enjahova> i'm also in america, so my money is kind of worthless
Nov 07 18:34:47 <CoreDump> lol
Nov 07 18:34:50 <ScaredyCat> roflmao
Nov 07 18:37:16 <enjahova> so whats up with GIS stuff in OM?
Nov 07 18:37:27 <enjahova> is there talk of homebrew navigation stuff?
Nov 07 18:37:54 <enjahova> i do a little web gis, maybe i can help with something?
Nov 07 18:40:15 <cjb_ie> enjahova: cool, have you heard of openstreetmap?
Nov 07 18:41:32 <enjahova> yes
Nov 07 18:41:59 <enjahova> also messed with openlayers, the code in the browser that shows it
Nov 07 18:42:03 <cjb_ie> excellent
Nov 07 18:42:38 <cjb_ie> i'll spare you the spiel then :)
Nov 07 18:42:56 <enjahova> hehe, but i don't know the state of gis in OM
Nov 07 18:43:31 <cjb_ie> the GPS in GTA01 works if you find the firmware blob for it
Nov 07 18:43:39 <cjb_ie> GTA02 has a different GPS chipset
Nov 07 18:44:16 * ScaredyCat muwhahahhaa's @ 1.2G download
Nov 07 18:44:17 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil would be the main guy with a finger on both OM and OSM pulses
Nov 07 18:45:31 <cjb_ie> ah, a screenful or two back, you already talked to him. i can shut up now :)
Nov 07 18:46:31 <enjahova> hehe
Nov 07 18:47:52 <dashavoo> im glad I decided to drop into the IRC channel... its got me thinking I want to contribute to the project somehow
Nov 07 18:48:51 <don-o> oh crap sorry
Nov 07 18:49:07 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 07 18:50:25 <dashavoo> reading that makes it so tempting to ask what/who Android is... but I care about my safety so I will keep quiet
Nov 07 18:51:09 <abraxa_> dashavoo: Let's just say that it's related to google's mobile phone efforts
Nov 07 18:51:27 <dashavoo> aha, ok
Nov 07 18:51:38 <cjb_ie> and definitely don't ask what "open" means in that context ;-)
Nov 07 18:52:01 <dashavoo> lol
Nov 07 19:18:01 <LarsBK> hello
Nov 07 19:19:28 <enjahova> does OM have libcurl?
Nov 07 19:24:38 <woglinde> enjahova openembedded has libcurl
Nov 07 19:24:46 <woglinde> and so OM has it too
Nov 07 19:39:52 <Bardack> hep 
Nov 07 19:40:40 <Bardack> I think that I have a "good" idea for an application for the openmoko project. But I am not sure I can put the "idea" on projects.openmoko.org
Nov 07 19:40:50 <cjb_ie> why so?
Nov 07 19:40:52 <Bardack> because it is just an idea, not a concrete project
Nov 07 19:41:14 <torpor> eh?
Nov 07 19:41:28 <Bardack> ?
Nov 07 19:41:29 <torpor> the only good idea for an openmoko application is a running openmoko application.
Nov 07 19:41:32 <torpor> ;)
Nov 07 19:41:34 <torpor> just do it.
Nov 07 19:41:38 <Bardack> yeah
Nov 07 19:41:59 <Bardack> maybe I can propose the application here, to see the feedback if it is a good idea or not
Nov 07 19:42:04 <cjb_ie> Bardack: well, would you like to discuss the idea here?
Nov 07 19:42:07 <cjb_ie> snap :)
Nov 07 19:42:08 <abraxa__> Go for it, Bardack 
Nov 07 19:42:13 <abraxa__> lol cjb_ie 
Nov 07 19:42:16 <Bardack> yep
Nov 07 19:42:39 <Bardack> I thinked about this idea last week, when I lost my cellular phone
Nov 07 19:42:42 <Bardack> the idea is:
Nov 07 19:42:58 <Bardack> when you lost your phone (forgot to a friend, in a car , ...)
Nov 07 19:43:07 <Bardack> just send a special SMS to your smartphone
Nov 07 19:43:30 <ecraven> enti
Nov 07 19:43:33 <Bardack> then He will know that their is a request , he takes his corrdinates (X,Y)
Nov 07 19:43:34 <ecraven> sorry, mistype
Nov 07 19:43:38 <Bardack> and send back 
Nov 07 19:44:05 <cjb_ie> that's fine, but nearly always when you lose your phone it will be out of GPS coverage
Nov 07 19:44:19 <Bardack> why?
Nov 07 19:44:28 <CoreDump> murphys law
Nov 07 19:44:30 <Bardack> I speak about lose, not picked
Nov 07 19:44:34 <LarsBK> gps only works outside..
Nov 07 19:44:41 <cjb_ie> if you leave it indoors, no GPS
Nov 07 19:44:54 <Bardack> ?
Nov 07 19:44:55 <cjb_ie> if you leave it in a car - maybe no GPS - depending on where in the car it is
Nov 07 19:44:58 <abraxa__> Maybe AGPS can be beneficial here
Nov 07 19:45:17 <Bardack> heu ... I have a PDA with GPS, and in my home the GPS is OK
Nov 07 19:45:43 <cjb_ie> Bardack: okay, that's not the case with most GPSes. sirf3?
Nov 07 19:46:00 <Bardack> yep it use SIRF3
Nov 07 19:46:13 <Bardack> the AGPS in Neo will be not that good?
Nov 07 19:46:19 <Bardack> I don' t really know
Nov 07 19:46:34 <ckuethe> the atmel/ublox receiver is good.
Nov 07 19:46:42 <ckuethe> better than sirf
Nov 07 19:46:50 <Bardack> then it will be ok indoor ...
Nov 07 19:47:03 <cjb_ie> without playing with it, it's hard to say, but i have about six different GPSes, two of them sirf3, and only one of them works indoors for me.
Nov 07 19:47:14 <Bardack> maybe not on a under-parking but in most cases yes , no?
Nov 07 19:47:53 <Bardack> at the moment, is there some small GPS application working on openmoko?
Nov 07 19:48:02 <Bardack> just to test if the receiption is ok or not
Nov 07 19:48:25 <dashavoo> wow, shows how little I know about gps... I always assumed it would work indoors
Nov 07 19:48:37 <torpor> its a good idea bardack
Nov 07 19:48:48 <dashavoo> one problem!
Nov 07 19:48:49 <torpor> all of the phone/gps functions should just be plunked into a little python lib .. 
Nov 07 19:48:53 <dashavoo> and its a big one
Nov 07 19:48:55 <dashavoo> :P
Nov 07 19:49:08 <Bardack> yeah I think so, because I need 3 days to remember that my phone is in the car of my father :)
Nov 07 19:49:12 <dashavoo> if you have lost your phone, how do you send an SMS ;)
Nov 07 19:49:12 <torpor> then you can jst describe the behaviour, and load the .py when you want that behaviour .. 
Nov 07 19:49:14 <dashavoo> ?
Nov 07 19:49:30 <torpor> from a friendly phone of course
Nov 07 19:49:31 <abraxa__> Bardack: The GPS driver isn't public yet, unfortunately
Nov 07 19:49:36 <torpor> which you can incidentally have already shared a key with .. 
Nov 07 19:49:44 <Bardack> ? abraxa__ ?
Nov 07 19:49:55 <Bardack> then at the moment no gps application on openmoko , right?
Nov 07 19:49:58 <torpor> its a load of crap about gps and gsm
Nov 07 19:50:05 <abraxa__> Bardack: Correct.
Nov 07 19:50:08 <torpor> gsm is slowly being fixed
Nov 07 19:50:12 <Bardack> okay
Nov 07 19:50:14 <torpor> gps will probably suffer the same fate.
Nov 07 19:50:37 <Bardack> rahhh ... I really CAN'T wait for the mass market version .... :| I want my Neo :)
Nov 07 19:50:39 <LarsBK> gps app: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
Nov 07 19:51:17 <Bardack> yeah that is that kind of application I spoke
Nov 07 19:51:30 <LarsBK> ;D
Nov 07 19:51:34 <Bardack> If somebody has this application installed on his Neo, maybe test indoor will be a good idea
Nov 07 19:51:45 <Bardack> if no ... my idea will not be good
Nov 07 19:51:49 <Bardack> if yes ... maybe ;)
Nov 07 19:52:04 <abraxa__> LarsBK: That's the newly-publicised agpsui2 btw
Nov 07 19:52:13 <torpor> yeah anyway, roll on the gta02's .. i want one.
Nov 07 19:52:26 <torpor> please FIC just make about 10,000 of them and make it easy to get.
Nov 07 19:52:38 <torpor> i would love that frankly.
Nov 07 19:52:44 <torpor> openmoko vending machines.
Nov 07 19:53:15 <cb22> well, weirder things have been sold at vending machines in asia before...
Nov 07 19:53:19 <Bardack> then if in a few days, somebody can give me a feedback about my question, it will be good :)
Nov 07 19:53:31 <Bardack> if not, I will wait for mine GTA02 ... in December :(
Nov 07 19:53:45 <LarsBK> what about using wifi signal strength inside?
Nov 07 19:54:06 <dashavoo> Bardack, assuming it isnt delayed again :P
Nov 07 19:54:22 <SpeedEvil> Bardack: the current one works OK indoors - in my house only if it's had a lock outdoors
Nov 07 19:54:33 <SpeedEvil> Bardack: however, GTA02 is a different hardware
Nov 07 19:54:38 <Bardack> yeah
Nov 07 19:54:43 <torpor> Bardack: i bet you in december your app will be very easy to write on nice hardware.
Nov 07 19:54:49 <Bardack> for the gps too?
Nov 07 19:54:53 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 07 19:54:54 <Bardack> good good
Nov 07 19:54:57 <torpor> and as of today its very a little difficult to write, on limited hardware.
Nov 07 19:55:15 <Bardack> rahhh I can't wait ...
Nov 07 19:55:20 <Bardack> :)
Nov 07 19:55:25 <dashavoo> "very a little"?
Nov 07 19:55:30 <LarsBK> haha
Nov 07 19:55:41 <torpor> keep in mind that there are other platforms upon which openmoko runs, too, by the way ..
Nov 07 19:56:01 <Bardack> ?
Nov 07 19:56:04 <torpor> where is this app and how can i get it right away: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
Nov 07 19:56:07 <torpor> ?
Nov 07 19:56:15 <torpor> Bardack: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
Nov 07 19:56:40 <Bardack> emulator for openmoko?
Nov 07 19:56:51 <torpor> why bother with emulators?
Nov 07 19:57:06 <LarsBK> anybody here that has a neo1973?
Nov 07 19:57:06 <torpor> emulators are for chumps who can't build a proper build environment.
Nov 07 19:57:14 <Bardack> mmm
Nov 07 19:57:15 <torpor> LarsBK: me
Nov 07 19:57:24 <LarsBK> oh, nice
Nov 07 19:57:54 <Bardack> at the moment I don't have a Neo , then I don't have the OS. IS there a possibility to test in an other way? I don't think so...
Nov 07 19:58:13 <abraxa__> Bardack: Xephyr/Xoo
Nov 07 19:58:28 <torpor> bardack: just write a nice gtk linux application, or python (with whatever GUI lib you want) and oila: OPENMOKO IS LINUX, DUMMY!
Nov 07 19:58:51 <torpor> openmoko is like ubuntu pocketry.
Nov 07 19:59:04 <Bardack> It s me or you re a quite agressive torpor? We are not on #debian here :)
Nov 07 19:59:28 <torpor> its not me, its not you, its my capslock.  i often use it.  but that doesn't mean i'm shouting
Nov 07 19:59:41 <torpor> #define PROGRAMMER drunk();
Nov 07 20:01:30 <Bardack> good I will try tomorrow
Nov 07 20:01:51 <abraxa__> Bardack: Docs are a little sparse as of now, so feel free to return and ask questions.
Nov 07 20:02:18 <dashavoo> does/will openmoko ever work with libglade?
Nov 07 20:03:11 <Bardack> yeah okay ;)
Nov 07 20:03:25 <abraxa__> dashavoo: Already does
Nov 07 20:03:54 <Bardack> but in January I will go working abroad (Germany) for one year. A lot of guys there are very motivated with OpenMoko. Maybe we can do a good project there :)
Nov 07 20:03:58 <dashavoo> wicked
Nov 07 20:04:09 <dashavoo> that makes development alot easier :P
Nov 07 20:04:17 <dashavoo> maybe a good idea will come to me at some point
Nov 07 20:04:53 <Bardack> :)
Nov 07 20:05:46 <torpor> Bardack: there are lots of german hackers on openmoko.
Nov 07 20:05:54 <Bardack> yeah I know that
Nov 07 20:06:06 <torpor> brits too
Nov 07 20:06:10 <torpor> are you german Bardack >?
Nov 07 20:06:20 <Bardack> I m from Belgium, but in january go to germany for one year :) :) , and drink a lot of beers
Nov 07 20:07:09 <LarsBK> For those who have a neo1973, how is openmoko to use?
Nov 07 20:07:57 <enjahova> is there libcurl on OM?
Nov 07 20:08:02 <torpor> LarsBK: 'okay' at this point.  there is a big theme'ing stage coming, you can really feel that in the interface.
Nov 07 20:08:09 <dashavoo> enjahova, that has been answered already
Nov 07 20:08:15 <torpor> a lot of the functionality is there, but the interface sorta feels unattended to .. 
Nov 07 20:08:22 <enjahova> dashavoo, i missed that
Nov 07 20:08:26 <torpor> enjahova: yes.
Nov 07 20:08:30 <torpor> wget.
Nov 07 20:08:32 <torpor> easy
Nov 07 20:08:40 <enjahova> word
Nov 07 20:08:42 <LarsBK> ok
Nov 07 20:08:44 <ozarka> LarsBK:  It's not a "usable" device in my opinion.
Nov 07 20:09:01 <dashavoo> 19:24 < woglinde> enjahova openembedded has libcurl
Nov 07 20:09:01 <dashavoo> 19:24 < woglinde> and so OM has it too
Nov 07 20:09:10 <torpor> its usable, but you will feel like you didn't open a phone you paid for, but more a phone you watched your friend build.
Nov 07 20:09:13 <torpor> the thing is too new.
Nov 07 20:09:18 <enjahova> oh, i must've afked. thanks
Nov 07 20:09:41 <ozarka> You certainly couldn't replace an existing phone with it.
Nov 07 20:09:58 <LarsBK> But when the software is "done" do you think it will be good enough to use as a everyday phone?
Nov 07 20:09:58 <torpor> the point is though that the phone is changing rapidly.  if you get a phone today and you don't think the interface is usable, you can most definitely spend 2 evenings building your own theme, and sharing it, and fix the problem.
Nov 07 20:10:01 <ozarka> Battery life being the biggest issue.
Nov 07 20:10:09 <dashavoo> ozarka, when GTA02 is released it will be able to take the place of an existing phone though, right?
Nov 07 20:10:13 <torpor> battery life is an issue.
Nov 07 20:10:34 <LarsBK> oh? Hwo long does it last?
Nov 07 20:10:36 <ozarka> dashavoo: I'm just a consumer.  I don't know.
Nov 07 20:10:59 <ozarka> Less than 8 hours even if you do nothing.
Nov 07 20:11:04 <torpor> dashavoo: the point you must understand is that your absolute questions can only be answered with the general observation that while some things don't work, some things do, one of those things is: the platform is rapidly changing.  progress is made rapidly in the OM world.  you should feel a lot safer buying one (because it is open) than you would if it were closed.
Nov 07 20:11:34 <ozarka> I haven't noticed a problem with the 850 scandal, and I'm in the US.
Nov 07 20:11:51 <LarsBK> 850 scandal?
Nov 07 20:12:12 <torpor> mine works, i am not using it as a phone but as a gprs connected internet tablet that i can easily write code for, quite easily in fact that its my current favourite platform for writing code, and yes that means writing code *on* the device itself.
Nov 07 20:12:13 <ozarka> There has to be a FAQ or wiki for this...
Nov 07 20:12:23 * ozarka looking...
Nov 07 20:12:27 <abraxa__> ozarka: Topic
Nov 07 20:12:27 <mmontour> LarsBK: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
Nov 07 20:12:44 <Bardack> yeah let s look on the mailing list LarsBK for the 850 scandal :)
Nov 07 20:13:08 <dashavoo> torpor, I realise that, I just wanted to know whether or not it will be useable in the same way other phones are at time of release
Nov 07 20:13:18 <torpor> i have my neo hooked up to a wireless apple kb, and a fat python install on a SD card that does everything i need it to do, replacing a rather ginormous x86 box which is currently complaining about having nothing to do. ;)
Nov 07 20:13:34 <ozarka> Thanks abraxa.  It's been a while since I looked at the topic.
Nov 07 20:13:49 <torpor> dashavoo: you can't predict these things yourself, based on what i'm telling you?  nobody knows the absolute answer; all we have is facts.  and its a fact openmoko is progressing rapidly.  
Nov 07 20:13:50 <ozarka> (And I was just about to mention Android, too.  Glad I read that.)
Nov 07 20:14:15 <ozarka> I agree with topor.  It's really exciting to see how much has changed since I got my Neo in Aug
Nov 07 20:14:47 <torpor> man, i am having so much fun with the onboard pulseaudio, too.
Nov 07 20:15:15 <abraxa__> torpor: Sarcasm or not? :)
Nov 07 20:15:16 <torpor> the machine is not just a phone.  phone functionality is just one of the things you can do with a moko.  it will progress just like all other application-types have on linux, since neo is a full linux workstation.
Nov 07 20:15:23 <torpor> abraxa__: serious
Nov 07 20:15:36 <abraxa_> Awesome
Nov 07 20:15:51 <torpor> as word-processing and web-browsing have progressed on linux, so too will cell calls and sms and gps .. 
Nov 07 20:16:31 <LarsBK> So you would call it a linux gadget with some phone functionality?
Nov 07 20:16:57 <torpor> yup
Nov 07 20:17:00 <torpor> its a linux workstation.
Nov 07 20:17:05 <torpor> with cell phone features.
Nov 07 20:17:20 <torpor> nothing stopping you from putting whatever linux software you can on it.. 
Nov 07 20:17:25 <torpor> its not just a phone.
Nov 07 20:17:28 <LarsBK> sounds like fun :p
Nov 07 20:17:36 <torpor> it is fun!
Nov 07 20:17:36 <dashavoo> heh, I dont think thats the best way to sell it tbh, but maybe thats just me
Nov 07 20:17:51 <torpor> dashavoo: it may be just you.  ;)
Nov 07 20:18:34 <LarsBK> As long as I can ring people and send sms/email
Nov 07 20:19:02 <torpor> no promises, but i'm sure it'll work for that. 
Nov 07 20:19:16 <torpor> {eventually}
Nov 07 20:21:16 <Bardack> the tutorial for Xephyr+OpenMoko is not very clear 
Nov 07 20:23:16 <guaqua> some sort of chroot tutorial would be nice
Nov 07 20:24:42 <enjahova> bardack what OS do you use?
Nov 07 20:25:05 <Bardack> At the moment I just have the laptop of my girlfriend, on Ubuntu 7.10
Nov 07 20:25:25 <Bardack> then I m doing the 'make setup'
Nov 07 20:25:37 <dashavoo> your girlfriend runs linux... why arent there more women like that near me?
Nov 07 20:25:42 <Bardack> And waiting for download
Nov 07 20:25:44 <Bardack> hahahaha
Nov 07 20:25:53 <Bardack> because I m with her for 7 years now :)
Nov 07 20:26:04 <dashavoo> lol
Nov 07 20:26:18 <Bardack> and if she continues to use Windows, I will divorce ^^
Nov 07 20:26:36 <Bardack> it is simple like 1+1 = 2 :)
Nov 07 20:27:03 <enjahova> these are the steps i followed, maybe its clearer:
Nov 07 20:27:04 <enjahova> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfjpf673_307j4nqp
Nov 07 20:27:15 <Bardack> I'll look just now
Nov 07 20:27:22 <abraxa_> Bardack: Lucky you. My g/f is about to switch from WinXP to OSX. Just as bad imo.
Nov 07 20:27:33 <Bardack> ahaha
Nov 07 20:27:36 <anrp> just as bad??
Nov 07 20:27:38 <Bardack> no choice at home :)
Nov 07 20:27:42 <Bardack> good idea is: 
Nov 07 20:27:44 <buz> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5305482907.html i wished i could get that in switzerland
Nov 07 20:27:46 <enjahova> i use both 7.10 and os x... :P
Nov 07 20:27:49 <buz> very nice deal for itx hardware
Nov 07 20:27:51 <Bardack> waiting for a big crash of her Windows
Nov 07 20:28:14 <Bardack> and say : I don't know nothing on Windows, I could help you if you will use Linux
Nov 07 20:28:20 <buz> oh its microatx, a still nice ;)
Nov 07 20:28:36 <abraxa_> anrp: Yes, just as bad because I can't (and don't want to) administrate OSX. Ergo: I can't help with problems and I know no one who can. Learning OSX just for that? Screw it.
Nov 07 20:31:51 <anrp> ... ok, then
Nov 07 20:32:07 <dashavoo> Bardack, where are you from?
Nov 07 20:32:16 <Bardack> Belgium - Waterloo
Nov 07 20:32:24 <dashavoo> hmm... not quite
Nov 07 20:32:34 <dashavoo> I suddenly realised I was imagining an accent whenever I read your messages
Nov 07 20:32:36 <Bardack> ? 
Nov 07 20:32:44 <dashavoo> I was hoping it would match where you came from, lol
Nov 07 20:32:50 <Bardack> ahaha
Nov 07 20:32:53 <Bardack> what was the accent?
Nov 07 20:33:30 <enjahova> abraxa_: os x doesn't have problems ;P thats the beauty
Nov 07 20:33:31 <enjahova> lol
Nov 07 20:34:00 <dashavoo> not really sure, it was kind of a cross between german and eastern european
Nov 07 20:34:17 <dashavoo> anyway, im going to go and eat now, bbl
Nov 07 20:34:18 <abraxa_> enjahova: As nice as it would be, I know that's not true - I worked with OSX on G4s often enough
Nov 07 20:34:37 <Bardack> yep see you dashavoo 
Nov 07 20:34:58 <enjahova> abraxa_, i'm just teasing :)
Nov 07 20:35:20 <enjahova> Bardack, speak french or flemish? or both?
Nov 07 20:35:30 <Bardack> french 
Nov 07 20:35:35 <Bardack> and a little bit of flamish
Nov 07 20:35:39 <Bardack> but I m not good :)
Nov 07 20:35:56 <Bardack> and with the big problem in Belgium today, it will maybe not interessting to improve my flemish :)
Nov 07 20:36:02 <abraxa_> enjahova: Ah okay - I made my experience with Apple fanboys also, so I'm a little sensitive towards such statements ;)
Nov 07 20:37:20 <enjahova> bardack, well, at least your going to germany :)
Nov 07 20:37:39 <Bardack> yep
Nov 07 20:37:53 <Bardack> for improve my english :)
Nov 07 20:38:01 <Bardack> and a quite german
Nov 07 20:38:32 <Bardack> lalala ... waiting for december to buy my GTA02 ....
Nov 07 20:38:47 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: You around still?
Nov 07 20:38:49 <Bardack> make setup is done, cool
Nov 07 20:40:52 <shred> hi: when i run "make build-package-myhelloworld" as in the example in the wiki i get the error "ERROR: No providers of build target myhelloworld (for [])
Nov 07 20:40:53 <shred> make: *** [build-package-myhelloworld] Fehler 1
Nov 07 20:40:53 <shred> " What does that mean?
Nov 07 20:41:59 <Maescool> hello :)
Nov 07 20:42:25 <Bardack> make setup finish but I don't find the : rootfs folder ...
Nov 07 20:42:42 <abraxa_> shred: It means that OE doesn't see a myhelloworld.bb recipe
Nov 07 20:43:25 <Bardack> if somebody has an idea
Nov 07 20:43:34 <shred> but i have one, as described
Nov 07 20:43:58 <flexd> One thing i was wondering
Nov 07 20:44:12 <flexd> it's possible to run the latest OE image on the qemu on xp right?
Nov 07 20:44:16 <flexd> Just replace the image files?
Nov 07 20:44:28 <flexd> (and could someone link the latest and greatest please ^^)
Nov 07 20:44:57 <enjahova> Bardack, why do you need rootfs folder?
Nov 07 20:44:59 <abraxa_> shred: Where did you put it?
Nov 07 20:45:19 <enjahova> Bardack, you should change the local.conf which you can find at build/conf/local.conf from wherever you did make setup
Nov 07 20:45:59 <Bardack> I finish the make setup and in the tutorial they speak about the folder build/tmp/rootfs , copy to mokobox
Nov 07 20:46:32 <Bardack> the goal is to run openmoko on Xephyr, not on a Neo
Nov 07 20:46:46 <shred> abraxa: mokodev/local/packages/myhelloworld/myhelloworld.bb
Nov 07 20:47:20 <abraxa_> shred: Using an overlay? I'm not sure that's currently supported - however I didn't test so I'm not sure.
Nov 07 20:47:25 <enjahova> Bardack, you still want to make a copy of it
Nov 07 20:47:33 <Bardack> ?
Nov 07 20:47:41 <Bardack> I want to test openmoko without a Neo
Nov 07 20:47:45 <enjahova> you mean build/tmp/rootfs isnt there
Nov 07 20:47:50 <Bardack> yeah
Nov 07 20:47:57 <shred> abraxa: yes using overlay
Nov 07 20:47:57 <Bardack> And in the tutorial they said that I need that
Nov 07 20:47:58 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: ya
Nov 07 20:48:02 <enjahova> did you do make openmoko-devel-image?
Nov 07 20:48:18 <Bardack> I ve done the make setup, then I modify the local.conf
Nov 07 20:48:19 <Bardack> then ...
Nov 07 20:48:21 <Bardack> no
Nov 07 20:48:28 <enjahova> thats important :)
Nov 07 20:48:34 <enjahova> its what actually builds it
Nov 07 20:48:52 <CM> Bardack: Btw, going to germany to improve your english?!? Hehe...
Nov 07 20:48:52 <Bardack> mmm 
Nov 07 20:48:53 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: I noticed openmoko-agpsui2 is written with GTA02 in mind so I made a patch to make it work with GTA01 - was wondering if I could/should send you patch+recipe
Nov 07 20:48:54 <enjahova> did you remove uboot-openmoko from the Makefile?
Nov 07 20:49:02 <Bardack> yep , Long story CM :)
Nov 07 20:49:09 <Bardack> no enjahova 
Nov 07 20:49:13 <Bardack> just take the makeFile
Nov 07 20:49:15 <CM> Never mind, just found it funny
Nov 07 20:49:15 <Bardack> make setup
Nov 07 20:49:20 <Bardack> modify the local.conf
Nov 07 20:49:22 <Bardack> bloked
Nov 07 20:49:24 <ScaredyCat> yeah, please do.. :D
Nov 07 20:49:39 <enjahova> Bardack, did you see the link i sent you? i followed those steps, just pulled them from the guide after some trial and error
Nov 07 20:49:59 <Bardack> I read the official , I will read your now ok
Nov 07 20:49:59 <enjahova> Bardack, after you remove uboot-openmoko from the Makefile, you do make openmoko-devel-image
Nov 07 20:50:11 <enjahova> uboot didn't build for me on x86
Nov 07 20:50:14 <Bardack> and not make setup
Nov 07 20:50:22 <enjahova> no, make setup comes first
Nov 07 20:50:30 <enjahova> then you modify local.conf like you're supposed to
Nov 07 20:50:40 <enjahova> then you do make openmoko-devel-image
Nov 07 20:50:56 <Bardack> ok I continue
Nov 07 20:52:45 <dashavoo> make openmoko-devel-image takes a veeerrrryyy long time, lol
Nov 07 20:52:52 <shred> abraxa_: as described in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course ..... so it should work for some
Nov 07 20:52:55 <Bardack> ok I need to remove the references to uboot-openmoko
Nov 07 20:53:01 <Ghiottone> hi all
Nov 07 20:53:27 <Bardack> all the line ? bitbake -c fetch openmoko-devel-image uboot-openmoko?
Nov 07 20:53:32 <Bardack> or just uboot-openmoko?
Nov 07 20:53:38 <abraxa_> shred: I suppose... unfortunately I can't check it out atm :(
Nov 07 20:53:42 <enjahova> just the uboot-openmoko
Nov 07 20:53:45 <Bardack> kay
Nov 07 20:55:00 <Bardack> mmm lot of error on the make ...
Nov 07 20:57:27 <Bardack> errors like theses: http://pastebin.com/m526a2db0
Nov 07 20:57:56 <flexd> #
Nov 07 20:57:59 <flexd> sqlite3.OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database'1~3~
Nov 07 20:58:05 <Bardack> yeah
Nov 07 20:58:11 <flexd> Points to whoever figures out what to do with your database.
Nov 07 20:58:23 <Bardack> I don't create any database
Nov 07 20:58:44 <enjahova> thats weird
Nov 07 20:59:25 <Bardack> rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Nov 07 20:59:32 <Bardack> I done the make setup in root 
Nov 07 20:59:43 <Bardack> noobie ...
Nov 07 21:01:23 <flexd> Bardack: i'm starting to setup my build evn now, if you still have problems
Nov 07 21:01:38 <flexd> Gonna try building the latest stuff for using in the qemu :D
Nov 07 21:02:36 <Bardack> yep
Nov 07 21:02:36 <enjahova> Bardack, i take it you installed all the necessary stuff right?
Nov 07 21:02:55 <Bardack> I think that it is ok now
Nov 07 21:03:01 <enjahova> ah
Nov 07 21:03:08 <Bardack> yep
Nov 07 21:03:12 <Bardack> I do the make setup in root
Nov 07 21:03:23 <Bardack> then the sqlite database was owned by root ...
Nov 07 21:03:37 <Bardack> and we can't make openmoko-dev-... using root
Nov 07 21:03:40 <Bardack> then no access ::)
Nov 07 21:03:51 <enjahova> oh
Nov 07 21:03:52 <enjahova> hehe
Nov 07 21:03:59 <Bardack> I m a noobie lalala :)
Nov 07 21:04:04 <Bardack> I m tired ... ^^
Nov 07 21:04:36 <enjahova> luckily you can sleep while it builds for hours
Nov 07 21:04:54 <Bardack> make openmoko-devel takes long time? :)
Nov 07 21:05:06 <enjahova> yep
Nov 07 21:05:08 <Bardack> and the laptop is veryyyyyyyyyyy old :)
Nov 07 21:05:15 <Bardack> P3 750 I think :)
Nov 07 21:05:26 <SpeedEvil> Bardack: come back next week
Nov 07 21:05:26 <Bardack> for days then ;)
Nov 07 21:05:29 <mmontour> Bardack: put away your stopwatch, grab a calendar...
Nov 07 21:05:31 <Bardack> LOOOOOOOL
Nov 07 21:05:34 <Bardack> ahahah
Nov 07 21:05:38 <Bardack> okay, thank you guys :)
Nov 07 21:05:58 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb has been updated
Nov 07 21:06:42 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/agpsui2_gta01.patch needs to be put into a files/ directory where the .bb is located
Nov 07 21:07:40 <hrw|gone> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/07/cpu-cooler-upgrade/
Nov 07 21:07:45 <abraxa_> If someone were then to use Sharogan's wrapper it would run out-of-the-box... "were", of course.
Nov 07 21:08:43 <xzcvczx> abraxa_: got any screenshots?
Nov 07 21:09:17 <abraxa_> xzcvczx: It's pretty much the same as http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
Nov 07 21:09:28 <xzcvczx> :o
Nov 07 21:09:35 <xzcvczx> nice
Nov 07 21:09:56 <abraxa_> Indeed :)
Nov 07 21:10:25 <xzcvczx> abraxa_: i have just been using gpsd logging most the stuff lately
Nov 07 21:10:46 <xzcvczx> abraxa_: also is there in ipkg of it?
Nov 07 21:11:04 <abraxa_> That's why I'm handing it to ScaredyCat ;)
Nov 07 21:11:12 * xzcvczx gives abraxa_ a beer
Nov 07 21:11:24 <abraxa_> hehe
Nov 07 21:11:32 <ScaredyCat> just uploading it now
Nov 07 21:12:55 <Bardack> and after in xephyr, I will have a full access to openmoko? 
Nov 07 21:12:59 <Bardack> sound and so on?
Nov 07 21:13:10 <Bardack> or just could have a small look to openmoko?
Nov 07 21:14:01 <flexd> hmm?
Nov 07 21:14:06 <xzcvczx> abraxa_: has the gps stuff been sussed out now?
Nov 07 21:14:36 <abraxa_> Bardack: depends on your host system - if you have PulseAudio on your host you should be able to use the media player; nothing else produces sound anyway
Nov 07 21:15:03 <Bardack> yep okay
Nov 07 21:15:11 <abraxa_> xzcvczx: Nope, not... yet... =\
Nov 07 21:15:15 <Bardack> I will test that tomorrow after the make :)
Nov 07 21:15:29 <Bardack> about a complete gps application for openmoko
Nov 07 21:15:41 <Bardack> do yu have already some idea for the maps?
Nov 07 21:15:45 <Bardack> using Google Maps? 
Nov 07 21:15:48 <Bardack> or I don't know
Nov 07 21:16:14 <abraxa_> There's pretty much only OSM for now
Nov 07 21:16:21 <abraxa_> Anything else would be illegal later on
Nov 07 21:16:27 <Bardack> ?
Nov 07 21:16:32 <Bardack> not sure that I understand you
Nov 07 21:16:34 <abraxa_> openstreetmap.org
Nov 07 21:16:34 <xzcvczx> abraxa_: oh, ok its just that gllin.cpp is copyright global locate so assumed it would be actually released
Nov 07 21:16:45 <Bardack> ok I look
Nov 07 21:17:22 <Bardack> oh ok
Nov 07 21:17:34 <Bardack> it is the only one solution at the moment ? :s
Nov 07 21:17:46 <ScaredyCat> come and get it :)
Nov 07 21:17:52 * xzcvczx gives ScaredyCat a beer
Nov 07 21:18:10 * ScaredyCat gives half to abraxa_
Nov 07 21:18:13 <abraxa_> Bardack: Pretty much - private entities (= we) can use other stuff as well but FIC won't be able to ship such things with their devices
Nov 07 21:18:23 <abraxa_> lol thanks, ScaredyCat 
Nov 07 21:18:33 <Bardack> mmm
Nov 07 21:18:35 <Bardack> not good
Nov 07 21:18:50 <Bardack> then it will be difficult to use Neo like a gps
Nov 07 21:19:44 <SpeedEvil> Maps are a problem.
Nov 07 21:19:55 <SpeedEvil> Most of the maps you think of as free - google - aren't.
Nov 07 21:20:02 <Bardack> argh
Nov 07 21:20:08 <Bardack> it s a big problem yes :s
Nov 07 21:20:11 <SpeedEvil> They have strict terms and conditions, which for example say that you can't cache the tiles.
Nov 07 21:20:19 <enjahova> Bardack, check projects.openmoko.org I just joined one for gps-navigator
Nov 07 21:20:38 <Bardack> Yeah me too I send my proposal to develop client application in Java
Nov 07 21:20:42 <SpeedEvil> Tehy have to do this as the map providers would charge _obscene_ amounts for users able to download maps themselves.
Nov 07 21:20:47 <Bardack> but the client, server, daemon is not a problem
Nov 07 21:20:52 <Bardack> the problem are the maps ...
Nov 07 21:20:54 <enjahova> still in planning phase, but if your interested in mapping/navigation it would be a good place to be involved :)
Nov 07 21:20:56 * xzcvczx needs to do a reflash has run out of space
Nov 07 21:21:09 <Bardack> Yeah I think so
Nov 07 21:21:14 <SpeedEvil> OSM will work OK in a couple of months in the USA and NL
Nov 07 21:21:35 <SpeedEvil> enjahova: read all in teh wiki in category:GPS?
Nov 07 21:21:37 <Bardack> 100%?
Nov 07 21:22:10 <enjahova> SpeedEvil, no, maybe i should
Nov 07 21:22:11 <SpeedEvil> Bardack: the US government has road data availabl,e, which is being imported. NL data has been donated byu a map company
Nov 07 21:22:20 <Bardack> good
Nov 07 21:24:09 <Bardack> ok make openmoko-devel-image launched :)
Nov 07 21:24:14 <enjahova> SpeedEvil, I like the idea of the openstreetmap client, but it would make sense to make a more general WMS client, no?
Nov 07 21:24:45 <Kragnerac> :)
Nov 07 21:24:50 <SpeedEvil> It would possibly make sense to be able to download tiles, yes.
Nov 07 21:25:00 <flexd> SpeedEvil: You could atleast be able to connect your neo to a laptop and get the gps with maps that way?
Nov 07 21:25:03 <SpeedEvil> However, vector maps are so enormously more compressed and routable, ...
Nov 07 21:25:56 <Bardack> pfff not that cool :(
Nov 07 21:26:01 <nelson> but slower to render.
Nov 07 21:26:01 <flexd> i know
Nov 07 21:26:05 <Bardack> i wasn't think about the maps ...
Nov 07 21:26:07 <flexd> but it's atleast something
Nov 07 21:26:20 <Bardack> and use tomtom maps with another application is illegal 
Nov 07 21:26:22 <Bardack> pfff :(
Nov 07 21:26:37 <xzcvczx> Bardack: its only illegal if you get caught :P
Nov 07 21:26:37 <enjahova> SpeedEvil, I see, i need to do some more reading then
Nov 07 21:26:42 <enjahova> roadmap looks interesting
Nov 07 21:26:54 <Bardack> yeah, but no xz
Nov 07 21:26:56 <Bardack>  :)
Nov 07 21:26:57 <xzcvczx> lol
Nov 07 21:27:44 <flexd> Bardack: What nobody knows nobody can bust you for :D
Nov 07 21:28:09 <Bardack> hehe
Nov 07 21:31:33 <CM> Ghiottone: Hmm.. I think you should update the latest url you added to your search engine. It's friggin 3147 chars long!
Nov 07 21:32:13 <xzcvczx> flexd: but the man upstairs knows everything and will put a cap in yo ass at judgement day
Nov 07 21:32:18 <xzcvczx> :P
Nov 07 21:32:21 <Bardack> sleep time
Nov 07 21:32:29 <Bardack> see you
Nov 07 21:32:52 <flexd> xzcvczx: the only man upstairs i believe in is my dad (which is upstairs), and he wants a neo himself so i honestly dont think he'l care :p
Nov 07 21:34:05 * CM tries to lure some android info from those sneaky nooglers but they're not talking
Nov 07 21:34:11 <xzcvczx> flexd: lol, i dont believe in a man upstairs either just thought i would add that for arguments sake
Nov 07 21:34:22 <Ghiottone> CM ehm it is a test to see if I'm able to get the bug list
Nov 07 21:34:23 * xzcvczx throws a rock at CM 
Nov 07 21:34:48 <CM> Ghiottone: Ok. I just added the regular om and oe bugzilla..
Nov 07 21:34:53 <ScaredyCat> seatch engine?
Nov 07 21:34:55 <ScaredyCat> search
Nov 07 21:35:09 <CM> Ghiottone: Remove if you want, but it's very convenient to search from google instead
Nov 07 21:35:18 <CM> ScaredyCat: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw
Nov 07 21:35:52 <ScaredyCat> ahh ok,
Nov 07 21:36:00 <ScaredyCat> I have my own...
Nov 07 21:36:07 <ScaredyCat> with a ff plugin :)
Nov 07 21:36:15 <enjahova> SpeedEvil, i don't see anything about getting vector data from OSM
Nov 07 21:37:23 <SpeedEvil> anj: you can download the original planet file.
Nov 07 21:37:31 <SpeedEvil> At the moment, it's a gigabyteish bz2
Nov 07 21:37:41 <SpeedEvil> which expands to some 30G of XML
Nov 07 21:37:48 <Ghiottone> CM removed. but still bug searches don't work :/
Nov 07 21:37:53 <xzcvczx> SpeedEvil: :O
Nov 07 21:37:54 <ScaredyCat> 1.2G
Nov 07 21:37:58 <CM> Ghiottone: Hmm.. Maybe it takes a while
Nov 07 21:38:07 <SpeedEvil> however, properly stored in a binary format, it's about the same size as the bz2, maybe smaller
Nov 07 21:38:08 * ScaredyCat got that too
Nov 07 21:38:12 <Ghiottone> CM I added that url for a test, but even after a few days it did not work
Nov 07 21:38:31 <CM> Ghiottone: Ah, no, I think it filters away the cgi's
Nov 07 21:38:34 <SpeedEvil> And much of that data is not needed in a map.
Nov 07 21:38:39 <Ghiottone> CM it is much faster when accessed directly from google. damn them!
Nov 07 21:38:55 <Ghiottone> CM what do you mean
Nov 07 21:39:21 <CM> Ghiottone: I mean that they don't index those long cgi urls, but I'm not sure
Nov 07 21:39:30 <CM> Remember I had the same problem with bugs.gentoo.org
Nov 07 21:39:34 * xzcvczx thinks its unfortunate that google doesnt allow you to download the occasionaal tile
Nov 07 21:41:01 <Ghiottone> CM I see. I think you're right. I hoped that google would have indexed the site if specified directly
Nov 07 21:41:16 <enjahova> SpeedEvil, I just found some documentation on OSM Protocol
Nov 07 21:41:35 <SpeedEvil> anj: the binary format isn't really implemented much
Nov 07 21:41:41 <SpeedEvil> which'd need to be.
Nov 07 21:45:27 <enjahova> hmm, are you talking about offline browsing?
Nov 07 21:46:00 <enjahova> i guess that would make a lot of sense... haha
Nov 07 21:46:23 <enjahova> i wonder how big it would be in something like sqlite
Nov 07 21:46:43 <SpeedEvil> enjahova: yes
Nov 07 21:46:51 <SpeedEvil> enjahova: f'n huge
Nov 07 21:47:05 <enjahova> ah..
Nov 07 21:47:30 <SpeedEvil> You absolutely do not want to put this into a standard database. But a properly designed storage/access format.
Nov 07 21:47:50 <enjahova> so ideally, you would have offline binary stored section of OSM for where you are, then maybe sync with some convenient program that could load a differnent area?
Nov 07 21:48:11 <SpeedEvil> For example, 
Nov 07 21:48:12 <SpeedEvil>  <node id="30349989" lat="56.0091235" lon="-2.8614369" user="smsm1" visible="true" timestamp="2007-06-14T13:50:23+01:00">
Nov 07 21:48:12 <SpeedEvil>     <tag k="created_by" v="JOSM"/>
Nov 07 21:48:12 <SpeedEvil>   </node>
Nov 07 21:48:19 <enjahova> yeah jesus
Nov 07 21:48:22 <SpeedEvil> is the current format of one node in the uncompresse format
Nov 07 21:48:56 <SpeedEvil> you can compress the lat/lon down to 32 bit, the node id to 32 bit, and the rest of the stuff to a few flags
Nov 07 21:49:18 <enjahova> yeah
Nov 07 21:49:26 <SpeedEvil> So that goes down to maybe 14 bytes, 12 if you lose the timestamp.
Nov 07 21:49:50 <enjahova> mobile devices are somethin else hehe
Nov 07 21:50:01 <SpeedEvil> And even less if you do other things.
Nov 07 21:50:36 <SpeedEvil> For example, you don't need to support roads with nodes spaced by 100km
Nov 07 21:50:45 <SpeedEvil> so you can knock off bits there.
Nov 07 21:51:03 <enjahova> spaced over? why 100km?
Nov 07 21:52:21 <SpeedEvil> You want to - in an optimal protocol maybe store the start and the end positions in a road as 32 bit lat/lon.
Nov 07 21:52:45 <enjahova> ah
Nov 07 21:52:51 <SpeedEvil> But you don't need to store 32 bit lat/lon for each.
Nov 07 21:52:59 <enjahova> so you can drop precision from the lat/lon
Nov 07 21:53:09 <SpeedEvil> just 16 or 24 bit per.
Nov 07 22:14:19 * flexd stares at the compile
Nov 07 22:21:37 <ScaredyCat> flexd: you are going to watch all 12 hours of it?
Nov 07 22:22:03 <Stephmw> shhhh
Nov 07 22:22:07 <ScaredyCat> :P
Nov 07 22:22:57 * ScaredyCat builds toy frim Kinder egg
Nov 07 22:23:18 <abraxa_> Didn't you say you were 30+? ;)
Nov 07 22:24:06 <ozarka> What's a Kinder egg?
Nov 07 22:24:49 <ScaredyCat> ssh h I'm concentrating ;)
Nov 07 22:24:50 <Stephmw> 25+ is when Kinder Eggs become fun
Nov 07 22:25:26 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 07 22:26:54 <abraxa_> ozarka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Surprise
Nov 07 22:27:04 <ScaredyCat> http://www.kindersurprise.com/
Nov 07 22:27:07 <ScaredyCat> ozarka: 
Nov 07 22:27:35 <ozarka> Food with plastic inside? 
Nov 07 22:27:45 <ScaredyCat> yes
Nov 07 22:27:55 <ScaredyCat> inside the egg is an egg with a toy
Nov 07 22:28:07 <ScaredyCat> the  toy is in pieces
Nov 07 22:28:11 <ScaredyCat> you build it...
Nov 07 22:28:14 <flexd> ScaredyCat: IT TAKES 12 HOURS!?=!?
Nov 07 22:28:40 <flexd> :(
Nov 07 22:29:28 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: food + toys == fun @ whatever age
Nov 07 22:29:43 <ScaredyCat> the only thing that changes is the price of the toys
Nov 07 22:29:58 <abraxa_> lol...
Nov 07 22:30:00 <ozarka> flexd: But it only seems like 10 or 11 while it's happening.
Nov 07 22:30:12 <ozarka> Don't kids choke on the plastic inside?
Nov 07 22:30:39 <ozarka> Or is it just America where kids try to kill themselves with small plastic things?
Nov 07 22:30:41 <SpeedEvil> Only the stupid ones.
Nov 07 22:30:46 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: I'm almost tempted to bring my girlfriend into the equation but I guess I shouldn't to keep it innocent ;)
Nov 07 22:30:50 <flexd> why on earth would it take 12hours?
Nov 07 22:31:01 <flexd> I thought i read something about it taking a few minutes >_>
Nov 07 22:31:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 998 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 07 22:31:01 <cdbot2> * * Keyboard autorepeat is too twitchy
Nov 07 22:31:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=998
Nov 07 22:31:03 * ScaredyCat reads the warning on the back
Nov 07 22:31:21 <ScaredyCat> "Small parts might be swallowed or inhaled"
Nov 07 22:31:25 <abraxa_> flexd: You sure it didn't say a few days?
Nov 07 22:31:28 * ScaredyCat tries inhaling the mouse
Nov 07 22:31:58 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: if your girlfrined needs toys....
Nov 07 22:32:05 <ScaredyCat> girlfrined...
Nov 07 22:32:06 <ScaredyCat> :P
Nov 07 22:32:10 <ScaredyCat> feck
Nov 07 22:32:12 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 07 22:32:18 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: clearly not the stupid ones, otherwise darwin would have taken them out of the gene pool
Nov 07 22:32:25 * ScaredyCat stops eating chocolate
Nov 07 22:32:31 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: oi, his gf is cute! :)
Nov 07 22:33:04 <ScaredyCat> but not innocent.. ;)
Nov 07 22:33:04 <Writchie> Stephmw: no - their parents sue, make a bundle, and have lots more dumb kids
Nov 07 22:33:05 <Maescool> lol
Nov 07 22:33:25 <Stephmw> Writchie: fair point
Nov 07 22:33:27 <ScaredyCat> lol at that bug
Nov 07 22:33:28 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: That was implied ;)
Nov 07 22:34:17 <ScaredyCat> ", their popularity has spread beyond their intended market, and they have become a minor cult phenomenon among discerning adults."
Nov 07 22:34:50 <ScaredyCat> yeah, but when wikipedia says it is sounds like an excuse.
Nov 07 22:36:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 999 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 07 22:36:01 <cdbot2> * * On-screen keyboard font has no arrows
Nov 07 22:36:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=999
Nov 07 22:36:34 <Maescool> i was wondering.. my phone doesn't have the look like it's on the website.. do i need to install a special matchbox theme or somthing?
Nov 07 22:37:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1000 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 07 22:37:01 <cdbot2> * * Terminal starts in root, regardless of
Nov 07 22:37:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1000
Nov 07 22:37:16 <ozarka> Maescool: If you're looking at openmoko.com, someone needs to install a theme on the web site.
Nov 07 22:37:19 <abraxa_> Maescool: The look you see on the official page is outdated (aka 2007.1)
Nov 07 22:37:37 <Maescool> ok :)
Nov 07 22:37:48 <raster> that wasnt even a real look
Nov 07 22:37:54 <raster> it was a mockup done by an artist
Nov 07 22:38:07 <abraxa_> raster!
Nov 07 22:38:12 <abraxa_> Don't sneak up on us like that
Nov 07 22:38:18 <raster> MUHAHAHAHAHA
Nov 07 22:38:28 <Maescool> oh k :)
Nov 07 22:38:37 <Maescool> so the version i just installed is the new look?
Nov 07 22:38:50 * raster wrings his hands together and chimes in with a monty-burns style "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcellent"
Nov 07 22:39:00 <Maescool> OpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071107-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 < i just installed
Nov 07 22:39:45 <abraxa_> raster: I start to believe Mr. Haitzler's plan at OpenMoko, Inc. is no less than to take over Mr. Moss-Pultz' seat. ;)
Nov 07 22:42:55 * ScaredyCat goes to the land of nod ... nite all
Nov 07 22:43:07 <abraxa_> Nighty night
Nov 07 22:43:16 <raster> abraxa_: :-P
Nov 07 22:43:53 <Ghiottone> nite ScaredyCat 
Nov 08 00:00:49 <flexd> how long does the compile have left when it's gotten to generating locales? :/
Nov 08 00:02:16 <abraxa_> Uhh
Nov 08 00:02:18 <abraxa_> 1/3rd or so
Nov 08 00:02:30 <flexd> good gried
Nov 08 00:02:32 <flexd> grief*
Nov 08 00:02:34 <flexd> going to bed then heh
Nov 08 00:02:43 <abraxa_> Well, you're building an entire distribution from scratch :)
Nov 08 00:02:43 <flexd> i hope it doesnt always take this long?
Nov 08 00:02:49 <abraxa_> Naw, just the first time
Nov 08 00:03:46 <flexd> good good
Nov 08 00:04:12 <ozarka> flexd:  Don't you want to watch?
Nov 08 00:04:23 <ozarka> What if there's an error 5 mintues after you leave it?
Nov 08 00:04:42 <flexd> ozarka: toobad for the error, lonely all night.
Nov 08 00:05:12 <ozarka> I started one this morning before I went to work.
Nov 08 00:05:16 <flexd> if it's a good looking female one it's got a open invitation to my bed, but i highly doubt such things exist, and if they do they probably come in trough a window or a door, not the computer.
Nov 08 00:05:30 <abraxa_> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011394.html - can we say... shit? I mean... wow.
Nov 08 00:06:00 <ozarka> Don't fsck with Americans.  We want out 850 and we want it now.
Nov 08 00:06:18 <flexd> just dont take out 900
Nov 08 00:06:27 <flexd> 900/1800 are what's being used in norway
Nov 08 00:06:30 <flexd> primarily 900 i think :/
Nov 08 00:06:51 <ozarka> It is kind of obnoxious that the 4 band we bought is actually a 3 band.
Nov 08 00:06:53 <mjr> nobody's taking 900 out
Nov 08 00:07:06 <DukeOfURL> what freq does ATT/Cingular use?
Nov 08 00:07:23 <raster> 7
Nov 08 00:07:25 <flexd> it says an 850/1800/1900 variant has been suggested
Nov 08 00:07:35 <ozarka> I'm use ATT/Cingular in Dallas and I get reception.
Nov 08 00:07:38 <flexd> or wait, nevermind >_<
Nov 08 00:07:40 <ljp> 8
Nov 08 00:07:48 <flexd> 9
Nov 08 00:07:50 <ozarka> Made a call with my qtopia Neo this morning.
Nov 08 00:07:59 <ljp> woooo!
Nov 08 00:08:11 <ozarka> But I would likely lose reception between Dallas and Ft Worth.
Nov 08 00:08:20 <ljp> drive faster
Nov 08 00:08:36 <raster> reception is for whimps
Nov 08 00:08:44 <ozarka> Better yet, don't drive to Ft Worth.
Nov 08 00:09:10 * ljp is glad he doesn't live in dallas
Nov 08 00:09:12 <ozarka> But where else am I going to find the latest fashion in belt buckles and cowboy boots?
Nov 08 00:09:23 <ljp> oklahoma
Nov 08 00:09:27 <raster> montana
Nov 08 00:09:35 <ljp> new york city!
Nov 08 00:09:37 * ozarka is here under duress
Nov 08 00:10:24 <flexd> norway > all
Nov 08 00:10:32 <flexd> now sleepy, 5hours to wakeup, yay me.
Nov 08 00:10:32 <ljp> I was this | | close to a job in dallas when TT found me and moved me to paradise
Nov 08 00:10:51 <ozarka> I think some people are using the 850 thing as an excuse to jump off the bandwagon.
Nov 08 00:11:06 <ozarka> ljp:  Where's paradise?
Nov 08 00:11:39 <ljp> australia
Nov 08 00:12:07 <abraxa_> ozarka: I wouldn't say so.
Nov 08 00:13:20 <abraxa_> I just find it *extremely* amazing that *such* an important issue hasn't been communicated between the hardware team and the staff for a year and a half now.
Nov 08 00:14:25 <ozarka> I agree, but I attribute it to growing pains.
Nov 08 00:14:59 <ozarka> My understanding was that it was a mistake and everyone at OM thought it was 850.
Nov 08 00:15:16 <ozarka> So who knew there was no 850 and when did they know it?  :-)
Nov 08 00:16:25 <abraxa_> I don't really want to speculate about that as I don't have any knowledge about the internal processes
Nov 08 00:16:46 <ozarka> IRC is made for pointless speculation.
Nov 08 00:16:51 <abraxa_> heh ;)
Nov 08 00:17:34 <ljp> has to be the new guys fault
Nov 08 00:17:48 <mmontour> ozarka: the problem was noticed a long time ago, e.g. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/008879.html
Nov 08 00:18:34 <abraxa_> mmontour: That's still one year after GTA01 hardware was already halfway done
Nov 08 00:19:34 <mmontour> abraxa_: True, and I have no idea when the problem was noticed inside OM/FIC.
Nov 08 00:19:59 <abraxa_> I think we can agree on "damn way too late" ;)
Nov 08 00:20:20 <mmontour> I was hoping it was just some component out of spec, or something that could be tuned in firmware
Nov 08 00:20:30 <abraxa_> Likewise
Nov 08 00:21:46 <abraxa_> So we can see the device wasn't designed for the North American market - which however would be one of two major selling points now. Open Source doesn't seem anywhere as big as a driving force as in the US and Europe, meaning less people in Asia would buy it
Nov 08 00:25:16 <aevin> does anyone know how many (few) RF antenna match circuits is needed for a typical quad-band solution? and how many is there in the GTA01?
Nov 08 00:27:31 <abraxa_> As there are 4 frequencies involved I'd say there are 4 RF matching circuits involved
Nov 08 00:27:36 <aevin> or as the same antenna is used regardless of freq, there's one huge/advanced antenna match/balun(?)/spur filter and possibly adding some switching? i've never worked with cell phone chips before.
Nov 08 00:28:24 <aevin> was it a TI calypso chipset in the GTA01?
Nov 08 00:28:30 <mjr> yes
Nov 08 00:28:32 <SpeedEvil> And 02
Nov 08 00:28:56 * aevin looks for dsheet
Nov 08 00:29:09 <SpeedEvil> 'qualified vendors only'
Nov 08 00:29:24 <SpeedEvil> IOW - look like you might buy a million, sign NDA, and you get a datasheet
Nov 08 00:31:31 <aevin> doh!
Nov 08 00:39:11 <roh> re
Nov 08 00:40:18 <aevin> mih
Nov 08 00:41:19 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: i heard the GTA02 wasn't going to use the Calypso?
Nov 08 00:41:28 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: it is
Nov 08 00:41:35 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: at least, it's reported so
Nov 08 00:41:50 <balrog-kun> hum..
Nov 08 00:42:22 <balrog-kun> that would be pretty bad
Nov 08 00:44:09 * balrog-kun is gonna continue assuming otherwise until it's confirmed for sure
Nov 08 00:46:42 <roh> balrog-kun we are currently evaluating how easy it is to make a gta02-us in addition to a gta02-eu
Nov 08 00:47:02 <aevin> abraxa_: btw, i found a block layout sketch for the transceiver http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12296&contentId=4701 , so now we know :)
Nov 08 00:47:16 <roh> gta02 will have calypso also, yes. thats nothing that can be changed shortly
Nov 08 00:47:43 <balrog-kun> roh: gah
Nov 08 00:47:49 <SpeedEvil> roh: how major is the rework to get quad band?
Nov 08 00:48:03 * balrog-kun spent last two days making an emulator for the ANTARIS4 chip
Nov 08 00:48:52 <mjr> balrog-kun, what's your beef with calypso?
Nov 08 00:49:02 <mjr> roh, have fun with that :]
Nov 08 00:49:19 <balrog-kun> mjr: that i've put two days work in emulating the other chip
Nov 08 00:49:33 <roh> SpeedEvil really major. that would mean redesigning the rf-stage from 3 to 4 frequencies.. meaning another mux or a different mux, one filter stage more which again needs pcb space and getting it to work rf-wise after that.
Nov 08 00:49:34 <mjr> ahh
Nov 08 00:50:13 <balrog-kun> mjr: also that the TI Calypso emulation is an order of magnitude less trivial to emulate
Nov 08 00:50:25 <balrog-kun> because you first have to reverse engineer the protocl
Nov 08 00:50:37 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 08 00:50:59 <roh> SpeedEvil replacing the 900mhz with 850mhz for the us market would mean a rather minor build-time change compared to that. and we can be nearly 100% sure it works and will get fcc then.. so i currently prefer a '2 different triband devices' to '1 quadband which could delay the whole thing due to added engineering time'
Nov 08 00:51:05 <mmontour> balrog-kun: Are you confusing GPS and GSM?
Nov 08 00:51:14 <SpeedEvil> roh: true
Nov 08 00:51:41 <roh> balrog-kun eh.. what are you trying to emulate? the modes beside NMEA?
Nov 08 00:51:51 <balrog-kun> mmontour: no? we already have GSM?
Nov 08 00:51:56 <DukeOfURL> roh: which network uses 850? 900?
Nov 08 00:52:09 <balrog-kun> roh: AIUI TI Calypso doesn't support NMEA
Nov 08 00:52:19 <mmontour> ANTARIS4 is GPS, TI Calypso is GSM
Nov 08 00:52:20 <mjr> TI Calypso is a GSM chip
Nov 08 00:52:23 <mjr> they usually don't
Nov 08 00:52:27 <balrog-kun> oh
Nov 08 00:52:37 <roh> balrog-kun eh.. i was talking about antaris in my last question
Nov 08 00:52:53 <balrog-kun> mmontour: yes, i'm actually confusing them, ignore me
Nov 08 00:52:57 * mjr didn't connect antaris4 to gps automatically there earlier
Nov 08 00:53:20 <roh> DukeOfURL: the us seems to use 850 and 1900, the rest of the planet uses 900/1800
Nov 08 00:53:48 <mwester-road> s/the us/much of North America, and parts of Central and South America/
Nov 08 00:54:12 <roh> mwester-road yes.. there are some other small countries which also use 850
Nov 08 00:54:37 <mwester-road> CYA by minimization is a poor strategy, in general.
Nov 08 00:54:48 * balrog-kun had understood that the hammerhead was going to be used in GTA02 in his little brain
Nov 08 00:55:06 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: no :/
Nov 08 00:55:18 <balrog-kun> phew, that's good
Nov 08 00:55:36 <balrog-kun> next time just ignore me :)
Nov 08 00:56:05 * SpeedEvil has been wrestling the last week to get http://www.mauve.plus.com/polytunnel.jpg erected.
Nov 08 00:57:00 <roh> balrog-kun gta01 is hammerhead. gta02 changed to u-blox antares
Nov 08 00:58:14 <balrog-kun> roh: that's really nice
Nov 08 01:00:41 <balrog-kun> http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/07/142247&from=rss the part about "common cold" is actually true :/
Nov 08 01:02:30 <mjr> Yes well. Mostly their openness has been generally not so good, so they don't really count. ;]
Nov 08 01:04:18 <DukeOfURL> speed:  greenhouse?
Nov 08 01:06:18 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: sort-of. Greenhouse that's mainly used as shed.
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