**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 02:59:57 2007
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:01:32 2007
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:20:19 2007
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 04:35:58 2007
Nov 08 05:12:08 <apt> -say ~onjoin Tene hi hi hi botsnacks Inc wone the McDonalds gamepiece of pan washed lawn clippings yesterday?
Nov 08 05:20:42 <Gareth> raster: ping.
Nov 08 05:28:47 <raster> Gareth: pong
Nov 08 06:39:09 <flexd> ai ai ai, still compiling :(
Nov 08 06:39:40 <CM> flexd: Hehe
Nov 08 06:40:15 <CM> flexd: As a reference, a clean build takes about 10.5h on my AMD64 3000+ with 1gb ram
Nov 08 06:41:01 <CM> And you should be glad it's still compiling, it used to fail 2-3 times before.. ;)
Nov 08 06:42:30 <flexd> CM: i'm on a amd 4000+ with 2gb ram
Nov 08 06:42:55 <CM> Hmm.. Maybe it has grown a bit lately.
Nov 08 06:43:15 <flexd> im going to work anyway so i dont care really, just really thought you were joking with the 12h :p
Nov 08 06:43:17 <CM> Once you have everything built it's quite quick to update and rebuild though
Nov 08 06:43:34 <CM> We're always dead serious in here.. ;)
Nov 08 06:45:06 <Batalyx_> and my fresh build from yesterday did crash this computer again. I'll try without -j 6 today...
Nov 08 06:51:08 <Batalyx_> how completely does "make clean" clean the project?
Nov 08 06:51:47 <Batalyx_> looks like it's pretty complete
Nov 08 07:28:50 <flexd> it's running opie atm, so OE should probably not be a problem i guess
Nov 08 07:29:29 <ScaredyCat> not sure how useful it'll be though
Nov 08 07:34:36 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 08 07:41:10 <Ghiottone> g'day
Nov 08 07:43:34 <CM> :)
Nov 08 07:51:43 <emdete> ScaredyCat: i use your image. i just saw there a packages for kernel 2.6.21 installed. is that intended?
Nov 08 08:02:52 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 08 08:12:42 <torpor> yo
Nov 08 08:13:17 <emdete> ScaredyCat: also i have a problem with screen & your image - do u use screen? it needs long time to start and open new windows. seems to be a problem with utmp...
Nov 08 08:17:09 <flexd> ScaredyCat: Nah i realize it will have little use
Nov 08 08:17:21 <flexd> But then i atleast get a feel for how things work
Nov 08 08:17:38 <flexd> the ipaq has a bigger screen than the neo + only reacts to stylus though :/
Nov 08 08:36:54 <codyl> anyone ever have trouble getting the neo to take a charge after sitting for awhile ?
Nov 08 08:37:23 <ewon> I hear it's a known issue
Nov 08 08:37:38 <codyl> ewon, if my neo fail..I'll be pissed
Nov 08 08:37:44 <ewon> it's not failed
Nov 08 08:37:54 <ewon> it's just too braindead to negotiate the usb to charge, iirc
Nov 08 08:37:55 <codyl> I pulled out the battery and waited a minute
Nov 08 08:37:57 <ewon> check the wiki
Nov 08 08:38:03 <codyl> still nothing
Nov 08 08:38:51 <mjr> codyl, and left it to charge for several hours?
Nov 08 08:39:04 <codyl> mjr, no...maybe 30 minutes
Nov 08 08:39:31 <torpor> codyl: it a known issue.  the battery runs flat if you leave it in.  take it out when you are done with the neo.
Nov 08 08:39:40 <torpor> you need to let it charge for at least 30 minutes before turning it on.
Nov 08 08:39:48 <codyl> torpor, ah..ive had it in a bag for the past month
Nov 08 08:39:51 <torpor> happens to me all the time, i have gotten used to leaving my neo plugged in .. 
Nov 08 08:40:10 <torpor> it can be solved but you hae to treat your batteries right.
Nov 08 08:40:16 <torpor> i've gotta rotate mine now actually that reminds me.
Nov 08 08:41:13 <codyl> torpor, what do i do
Nov 08 08:41:47 <torpor> plug in your neo, charge your battery for a few hours
Nov 08 08:41:56 <torpor> when you are done with your neo, pull out the battery
Nov 08 08:41:59 <codyl> torpor, im using a phone charger
Nov 08 08:42:02 <codyl> not my computer
Nov 08 08:42:05 <torpor> doesn't matter
Nov 08 08:42:08 <codyl> k good
Nov 08 08:42:15 <torpor> whatever you use, just keep the battery charged, and stored to the side when not in use.
Nov 08 08:42:20 <codyl> some devices use the data line pullups to make sure its a computer
Nov 08 08:42:24 <doc|home> <troll>850MHz!</troll>
Nov 08 08:42:50 <codyl> torpor, so just wait a while?
Nov 08 08:42:51 <codyl>  
Nov 08 08:43:06 <torpor> <troll>US Fascists don't deserve any more cool tech!</troll>
Nov 08 08:43:10 <torpor> codyl: yup.
Nov 08 08:43:16 <codyl> torpor, awesome. thanks
Nov 08 08:43:19 <doc|home> torpor: I'm irish and in canada :|
Nov 08 08:43:23 <codyl> is this project even moving...?
Nov 08 08:43:35 <torpor> doc|home: well you deserve eveything then.
Nov 08 08:43:36 <doc|home> so I'll have a phone that'll work in one country, but be a brick in another
Nov 08 08:43:40 <doc|home> torpor: indeed! :)
Nov 08 08:43:49 <torpor> codyl: yes.  but some of the important things are being done last it would seem, like power-saving and gps and stufff .. 
Nov 08 08:43:51 <codyl> I thought there was going to be a v2 of the hw last month
Nov 08 08:44:06 <torpor> there is going to be a v2, but probably not until december/january ..
Nov 08 08:44:11 <torpor> its in the final stages of testing.
Nov 08 08:44:20 <doc|home> what's v2 going to be? Non fucked board? 
Nov 08 08:44:24 <torpor> some of the guys in here have gta02's already
Nov 08 08:44:26 <codyl> torpor, "power-saving" is probably second most important feature, next to the f**ker booting at all
Nov 08 08:44:35 <doc|home> ah, gta02
Nov 08 08:44:37 <doc|home> :/
Nov 08 08:44:52 <torpor> gta02 == better cpu, more ram, better gps chip, 3d acceleration, piezoelectric accelerometers, WLAN.
Nov 08 08:45:03 <torpor> codyl: gta01's boot just fine when you give them power.
Nov 08 08:45:26 <codyl> torpor, okay awesome...
Nov 08 08:45:32 * codyl scoots back to work on his XO
Nov 08 08:45:38 <torpor> just have patience.  this is a hacker project right now after all.
Nov 08 08:45:43 * doc|home wants GTA02v2 with quad band :(
Nov 08 08:45:56 <doc|home> torpor: the 02 wasn't meant to be :/
Nov 08 08:46:05 <torpor> eh?
Nov 08 08:46:14 <doc|home> it was meant to be market ready
Nov 08 08:46:18 <doc|home> i.e. for anyone
Nov 08 08:46:27 <torpor> not so
Nov 08 08:46:33 <doc|home> yeah it was :)
Nov 08 08:46:41 <torpor> gta02 is the first initial public release, but its still a hacker fpphone
Nov 08 08:46:44 <doc|home> or at least that was the impression I always got
Nov 08 08:46:46 <codyl> torpor, DEFINITELY reeks of a hackers project
Nov 08 08:47:05 <torpor> but like all good linux hacker prjoects, openmoko is progressing nicely and there are good reasons to get involved
Nov 08 08:47:13 <torpor> i'm developing apps for openmoko exclusively right now
Nov 08 08:47:21 <torpor> and its a great platform, once you get through the wrinkles.
Nov 08 08:47:35 <codyl> torpor, its gonna be like most FOSS projects
Nov 08 08:47:40 <codyl> useless crap for a while
Nov 08 08:47:42 <torpor> do not generalize
Nov 08 08:47:48 <torpor> most FOSS is not the same.
Nov 08 08:47:48 <codyl> then an exponential rate of growth
Nov 08 08:47:53 <CVirus> my parents just bought an awesome Linux based satellite reciever :-D
Nov 08 08:48:11 <torpor> most people don't see the successful FOSS projects because they're too busy complaining about the non-successful ones.
Nov 08 08:48:28 <torpor> there are tons of really superb products running FOSS that nobody knows about because there aren't complaints.
Nov 08 08:48:36 <torpor> so generalizing about FOSS is lame.
Nov 08 08:48:41 <torpor> i would advise you not to do it.
Nov 08 08:48:43 <codyl> torpor, care to elaborate ?
Nov 08 08:48:52 <torpor> dbox
Nov 08 08:48:59 <torpor> wrtlinux
Nov 08 08:49:06 <torpor> mythTV
Nov 08 08:49:07 <torpor> etc.
Nov 08 08:49:18 <flexd> what is great is that with gta02 the hardware bugs and stuff should be gone, and as soon as the software gets made it's gonna be a complete phone
Nov 08 08:49:25 <torpor> there are tons and tons of really successfull FOSS projects out there that do not qualify for 'putrid hacker project' status.
Nov 08 08:49:59 <codyl> torpor, I was simply commenting on how the image of the project has been handled
Nov 08 08:50:13 <codyl> in that sense, most FOSS projects share the same level of "putrid"
Nov 08 08:50:16 <torpor> well there is definitely a PR front missing on the openmoko project side of things
Nov 08 08:50:26 <torpor> there is unfortunately no way to 'open source'-ify project PR ..
Nov 08 08:50:28 <codyl> torpor, that was all I was saying
Nov 08 08:50:37 <codyl> heh...wikis dont cut it
Nov 08 08:50:43 <torpor> well then its a good thing you've come into this channel to learn the truth about the project.
Nov 08 08:50:48 <torpor> wikis do not cut it, i agree.
Nov 08 08:51:08 <codyl> torpor, I'm "in the loop" for everything openmoko uses
Nov 08 08:52:38 <codyl> just not the project itself
Nov 08 08:54:11 <hrw> torpor: mythTv... argh
Nov 08 08:55:09 <hrw> hard to configure, non intuitive interface, low quality bttv tuners support, nearly not-existing channel search
Nov 08 08:58:13 <codyl> torpor, do you know if anybody is working on a configuration solution ? (ala gconf)
Nov 08 09:03:58 <hrw> codyl: openmoko use gconf
Nov 08 09:04:30 <codyl> hrw, and ship orbit and other such poo ?
Nov 08 09:04:39 <codyl> ill see when this things boots.. :-)
Nov 08 09:04:49 <codyl> hrw, I'm working on something interesting regarding config
Nov 08 09:06:18 <codyl> omg yay, the stupid startup sound was replaced!
Nov 08 09:06:24 * codyl thinks this thing has hope yet
Nov 08 09:06:51 <hrw> codyl: gconf-dbus do not use orbit but dbus
Nov 08 09:07:59 <codyl> hrw, gconf-dbus is a hack
Nov 08 09:08:07 <torpor> codyl: pessimism is really not appropriate.  you can't get involved in a FOSS project and then complain that nothing is being done (like consumer-co's do) .. step up and fix whatever you don't like.
Nov 08 09:08:40 <codyl> torpor, uh..I *am* fixing
Nov 08 09:08:49 <codyl> torpor, wondering if openmoko cares (its for olpc)
Nov 08 09:08:50 <hrw> codyl: it is working solution used for quite long time in embedded world
Nov 08 09:09:07 <torpor> yeah, but please realise: 10:06  * codyl thinks this thing has hope yet
Nov 08 09:09:10 <torpor> not helpful.
Nov 08 09:09:46 <codyl> torpor, have some humor ?
Nov 08 09:09:49 <torpor> there are a lot of things with openmoko that need fixing, besides gconf (which just works)
Nov 08 09:09:56 <torpor> codyl: its not humorous, at all.
Nov 08 09:10:03 <codyl> hrw, so folks are content with gconf- okay then
Nov 08 09:10:47 <hrw> codyl: and you suggest what to use instead?
Nov 08 09:11:20 <codyl> hrw, a lightweight dbus service with a small handful of methods
Nov 08 09:11:46 <codyl> and a modular datastore system
Nov 08 09:13:08 <codyl> hrw, (its an actual project of mine, not pissy-ness)
Nov 08 09:13:33 <hrw> codyl: ok. how much code changes needed for application which use gconf?
Nov 08 09:13:47 <codyl> hrw, depends on what route you want to take
Nov 08 09:14:01 <codyl> I could write a gconf api compat library
Nov 08 09:14:04 <torpor> keep in mind there are apps already doing gconf .. 
Nov 08 09:14:33 <codyl> assuming they dont anything too advanced .. which usually means they do
Nov 08 09:15:10 <hrw> assuming... I like that word
Nov 08 09:15:48 <codyl> hrw, thats why I added " which usually means they do "
Nov 08 09:16:00 <torpor> i would advise a lot more familiarity with the existing toolchain and apps and bundles before you make many assumptions.
Nov 08 09:16:15 <torpor> get the openmoko build kit up and running
Nov 08 09:16:17 <torpor> get your first image built
Nov 08 09:16:20 <torpor> get some of the apps built
Nov 08 09:16:24 <codyl> torpor, ive done all that
Nov 08 09:16:29 <torpor> inspect the way things are being done by the active apps developers as of today
Nov 08 09:16:30 <codyl> and other embedded systems
Nov 08 09:16:33 <codyl> i use angstrom
Nov 08 09:17:36 <torpor> great, so you've got all the answers on your disk already.  you should be able to find out how many onboard apps are using gconf and how they're using it easily enough.
Nov 08 09:18:28 <codyl> hrw, if you are happy with your current solution, I'll shut up 
Nov 08 09:18:47 <codyl> hrw, I was just curious...because OLPC wasn't happy with gconf
Nov 08 09:18:53 <torpor> best thing to do is implement it and demo why its better than the current scene .. 
Nov 08 09:19:10 <codyl> torpor, its implemented 
Nov 08 09:19:21 <torpor> in openmoko?
Nov 08 09:19:21 <hrw> codyl: I decided to not change internals - there are too many things to do
Nov 08 09:19:27 <codyl> hrw, gotcha
Nov 08 09:19:35 <codyl> hrw, thanks for your time- keep up the good work
Nov 08 09:24:08 <torpor> yikes
Nov 08 09:30:49 <flexd> i just love pybluez's documentation..
Nov 08 09:30:59 <flexd> lookup_name: availabilty: GNU/linux
Nov 08 09:31:07 <flexd> but it works in 1/10 cases for windows.. >_>
Nov 08 10:00:33 <Ghiottone|work> re
Nov 08 10:16:35 <Ghiottone|work> re
Nov 08 10:30:52 <blaster> aanyone from the US? :)
Nov 08 10:33:24 <CM> If there is, they're up early
Nov 08 10:35:14 <zash> http://www.worldtime.com/cgi-bin/wt.cgi?cnt=490431&ID=81145392ed
Nov 08 10:36:20 <Stephmw> g'morning
Nov 08 10:37:16 <blaster> i was just reading about this offer at clubit.com, they are selling the gOS dev board for only $60
Nov 08 10:37:21 <blaster> seems to be US only though :/
Nov 08 10:38:28 <blaster>  http://www.worldtime.com/cgi-bin/wt.cgi?cnt=490431&ID=81145392ed
Nov 08 10:38:32 <blaster> oops
Nov 08 10:38:35 * flexd looks at the topic
Nov 08 10:38:43 <CM> blaster: I noticed that one too
Nov 08 10:38:50 <blaster> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=CA4842001&nav=3
Nov 08 10:38:55 <Ghiottone|work> blaster reading ./ aren't you? :)
Nov 08 10:39:10 <blaster> not really, no
Nov 08 10:39:10 <blaster> :)
Nov 08 10:39:10 * CM would never to that at work.. *whistle*
Nov 08 10:39:15 <Ghiottone|work> s$./$/.$
Nov 08 10:39:20 <Ghiottone|work> err
Nov 08 10:39:33 <blaster> so, i'd like to find some american who can ship a board for me
Nov 08 10:39:34 <blaster> :)
Nov 08 10:39:48 <CM> blaster: If you did, why not order something like this instead? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135057
Nov 08 10:40:46 <flexd> yay
Nov 08 10:40:50 <flexd> i think my compile finished
Nov 08 10:40:57 <CM> :)
Nov 08 10:41:01 <flexd> not sure though
Nov 08 10:41:06 <flexd> i didnt use screen to do it :/
Nov 08 10:41:22 <flexd> but when i got to work the box was at 100% load and 50celsius ~ degrees 
Nov 08 10:41:30 <flexd> now it's 0 load and only 33 degrees again
Nov 08 10:41:31 <CM> Just look if you have a rootfs
Nov 08 10:41:50 <flexd> CM: where?
Nov 08 10:41:55 <CM> in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973
Nov 08 10:41:57 <SpeedEvil> blaster: what board?
Nov 08 10:42:02 <blaster> looks nice CM 
Nov 08 10:42:04 <CM> When you're in the moko dir
Nov 08 10:42:08 <blaster> SpeedEvil: see my link above
Nov 08 10:42:41 <SpeedEvil> Oh - I clicked the worldclock thigh
Nov 08 10:42:47 <flexd> CM: there's alot of files there atleast
Nov 08 10:42:48 <blaster> (its just a via micro board)
Nov 08 10:42:58 <CM> SpeedEvil: Also described here http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5305482907.html
Nov 08 10:43:11 <SpeedEvil> oh
Nov 08 10:43:44 <flexd> iboot-gta01v2/3/4-latest.bin's like 3 of them, a uImage-neo....-latest. bin file, openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-.jffs2, some lowlevel-foo* .bins
Nov 08 10:44:03 <flexd> arr, and a .rootfs.jffs2 file :o
Nov 08 10:44:15 <CM> flexd: Looks like you're good :)
Nov 08 10:44:19 <flexd> hmm
Nov 08 10:44:33 <flexd> now it's just about getting qemu booted, hopefully it works with freenx desktops
Nov 08 10:44:44 <SpeedEvil> Stop, Hammertime! http://www.tincantools.com/home.php
Nov 08 10:45:28 <SpeedEvil> (small ARM dev board, actually with a price and an online shop - though it looks unfinished)
Nov 08 10:45:38 <Batalyx> for those who might be interested, I didn't manage to get the Openmoko compiled today either. IT support came into the room and took the computer "for further examination" while it was compiling :) (yes, I'm happy)
Nov 08 10:46:04 <SpeedEvil> In DIP40
Nov 08 10:46:16 <SpeedEvil> what was the computer?
Nov 08 10:46:25 <SpeedEvil> may they upgrade you?
Nov 08 10:47:53 <flexd> Batalyx: ouch.
Nov 08 10:53:58 <cb24> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BigPageWidget sounds like a good idea
Nov 08 10:55:08 <CM> Best project of the day, I say run it on da whole interwebz: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/08/software-deletes-idiots-web
Nov 08 10:55:21 <Batalyx> the computer was a dual core amd 64. don't remember more specs, sorry. it was "a clone", suitably named "camp" :)
Nov 08 10:55:35 <Batalyx> hopefully they'll upgrade...
Nov 08 10:55:40 <flexd> woo
Nov 08 10:55:44 <flexd> qemu is booting oe!
Nov 08 10:55:52 <CVirus> Ze INterWeb is for pr0n
Nov 08 10:56:34 <CM> cb24: Cool idea, and ambitious description by this Who guy
Nov 08 10:56:41 <cb24> inded
Nov 08 10:56:46 <cb24> s/e/ee/
Nov 08 10:56:46 <apt> cb24 meant: indeed
Nov 08 10:56:57 <flexd> like the opera browser has
Nov 08 10:57:02 <flexd> that zoom thing is really nice
Nov 08 10:57:41 <CM> Definitely is, and fast too
Nov 08 11:03:08 <zash> but, does it run on linux?
Nov 08 11:03:20 <zash> ;)
Nov 08 11:03:45 <zash> but, what performance would it have on the gta02?
Nov 08 11:04:04 <flexd> i think i broke qemu :<
Nov 08 11:04:44 <flexd> usb-ohci: DataOverrun -3 > 17 is being spammed into the console heh ^^ 
Nov 08 11:23:54 <zash> about the BigPageWidget, instead of special zoom gestures the aux-button could switch between zoom and pan
Nov 08 11:52:37 <CM> zash: Good idea, add that to the page or talk page for it :)
Nov 08 12:26:00 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/08/usb-scanner-and-udev/
Nov 08 12:27:29 * florian does not use USB scanners ;)
Nov 08 12:29:39 <zash> i have an old flatbed usb-scanner somewhere
Nov 08 12:29:48 <zash> winxp hated it
Nov 08 12:29:54 <CM> Can't be that old if it's usb ;)
Nov 08 12:30:10 <zash> everything is relative
Nov 08 12:31:02 <flexd> hmmm
Nov 08 12:34:56 <SpeedEvil> Many of the earliest USB scanners were simply parallel ones with a USB-parallel chip
Nov 08 12:47:51 <flexd> Hmmmm
Nov 08 12:47:59 <flexd> I got a brilliant idea again, yay me :<
Nov 08 12:58:41 <zash> flexd: yay for you
Nov 08 12:59:46 <flexd> In the interest of learning more python + try gtk, im gonna make something that can show me norways bus times in realtime
Nov 08 13:00:33 <zash> nice
Nov 08 13:01:33 <flexd> Maybe even other countries if i can find websites giving out the info
Nov 08 13:01:58 <zash> tabussen.nu for ac.se
Nov 08 13:02:17 <zash> and umeå
Nov 08 13:02:51 <flexd> do they give out realtime info too?
Nov 08 13:03:43 <zash> how do you mean with that?
Nov 08 13:04:00 <flexd> like that
Nov 08 13:04:01 <flexd> http://www.trafikanten.no/sis/
Nov 08 13:04:13 <flexd> Gives out real time info based on where the busses are locaed and stuff
Nov 08 13:04:19 <zash> coul
Nov 08 13:04:36 <flexd> so at the stops there are digital signs that show when the bus is due
Nov 08 13:04:42 <flexd> or estimated to come
Nov 08 13:04:58 <CM> Nice
Nov 08 13:05:10 <zash> very nice
Nov 08 13:05:20 <flexd> So i was thinking i could just make a gtk program that looks pretty much like that form to the left there (minus afew buttons + make it nicer)
Nov 08 13:05:21 <CM> Saw some app showing the busses in Helsinki realtime on a google map
Nov 08 13:05:25 <flexd> cool
Nov 08 13:05:36 <zash> CM: that be cool
Nov 08 13:05:44 <flexd> then i could make it just perform that search and display results nicely
Nov 08 13:05:54 <CM> http://transport.wspgroup.fi/hklkartta/
Nov 08 13:06:21 <zash> aha, 'saw some app'
Nov 08 13:07:03 <CM> They've made it a bit nicer now, saw it when when it was beta
Nov 08 13:07:05 <zash> that + position of self with estimated times for busses that stops nerby
Nov 08 13:07:49 <flexd> heh cool
Nov 08 13:08:02 <flexd> having that on your phone would be awsome
Nov 08 13:08:28 <zash> yea
Nov 08 13:09:34 <abraxa_> roh: ping
Nov 08 13:11:30 <ScaredyCat> hehehehe
Nov 08 13:11:52 * ScaredyCat spies a bug in my regex
Nov 08 13:12:15 * ScaredyCat gets submarine sonars on a 'ping'
Nov 08 13:15:02 <abraxa_> WWII is over, you can stop spying, ScaredyCat xP~
Nov 08 13:15:28 <ScaredyCat> don't mention the war
Nov 08 13:16:14 <Stephmw> War? It was a police action!
Nov 08 13:17:53 <ScaredyCat> CM: i that real realtime  or pretend realtime?
Nov 08 13:18:00 <ScaredyCat> is
Nov 08 13:18:06 <CM> I think it is real
Nov 08 13:18:19 <ScaredyCat> that's pretty fecking awesome then..
Nov 08 13:18:30 <ScaredyCat> they should do that in Amsterdam with the trams...
Nov 08 13:19:07 <ScaredyCat> probably wont though, that'd be too useful to their customers
Nov 08 13:20:54 <Stephmw> hey mickeyl 
Nov 08 13:22:04 * ScaredyCat points at Stephmw
Nov 08 13:22:46 <zash> looks like it pulls all vehicles in the viewport every sec
Nov 08 13:26:02 * Stephmw reads the various adobe flash related threads on the mailing list and refrains from asking further questions...
Nov 08 13:28:01 * ScaredyCat flashes Stephmw
Nov 08 13:28:30 * Stephmw gets his popcorn
Nov 08 13:28:30 <ScaredyCat> zash: yeah, but is the data updated live or just 'where we expect them to be'
Nov 08 13:31:15 <roh> abraxa_ pong
Nov 08 13:34:17 <abraxa_> roh: Public specs of the glamo on the smedia page say that the 3362 supports MPEG-4 decoding in hardware. mickey however said he didn't see anything hinting at that in the detailed glamo specs... so I'd like to figure out what is correct.
Nov 08 13:34:21 <abraxa_> roh: Can you help me? :)
Nov 08 13:35:12 <jserv--> abraxa_, SMedia glamo 336x supports HW MPEG-4 decoding.
Nov 08 13:35:38 <CM> Nice :)
Nov 08 13:36:04 <jserv--> abraxa_, at least, we have a working glamo driver/MPEG-4 output based on XVideo.
Nov 08 13:36:12 <abraxa_> jserv--: Awesome!
Nov 08 13:36:56 * jserv-- should post some "snapshots". :-)
Nov 08 13:36:57 <roh> well.. also depends on what mpeg4 ;) there are a load of variants
Nov 08 13:37:18 <jserv--> abraxa_, but only refer to MPEG-4 simple profile.
Nov 08 13:37:42 <abraxa_> Well, of course. But the mere fact that we do have MPEG-4 decoding in hardware is great as we can take quite some burden off the CPU with such streams
Nov 08 13:38:08 <jserv--> correct.
Nov 08 13:38:27 <jserv--> however, it comes with some limitations due to HW configurations.
Nov 08 13:38:33 <gi-el> mpeg-4 in software on arm is no fun.
Nov 08 13:39:02 <jserv--> I have no idea if I have enough permission to explain what I said.
Nov 08 13:39:40 <gi-el> i think i understand, i have the iso/iec 14496 specs almost memorized :P
Nov 08 13:39:41 <abraxa_> jserv--: I'd like to see how I can integrate the interfacing code into gstreamer - do you think there is a way for me to do this or would I have to sign an NDA to see the glamo specs as well?
Nov 08 13:39:53 <jserv--> because of the fact I have to point out the HW design/spec if I explain what the exact limitation is.
Nov 08 13:40:18 <jserv--> abraxa_, yes, NDA is required.
Nov 08 13:40:45 <abraxa_> jserv--: Okay
Nov 08 13:41:20 <flexd> anyone of you familiar with python/gtk on windows? :/
Nov 08 13:42:01 <ScaredyCat> NDA .... :(
Nov 08 13:42:09 <jserv--> abraxa_, http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/olv/xserver
Nov 08 13:42:48 <abraxa_> jserv--: I saw, didn't noticeany MPEG-4 interfacing code however... I'll look again, thanks :)
Nov 08 13:43:06 <jserv--> abraxa_, stay tune, we will post the latest X accelerated driver including XVideo support after we clarify some non-technical issues.
Nov 08 13:43:38 <jserv--> abraxa_, olv develops a series of useful tools for accessing glamo HW
Nov 08 13:43:48 <jserv--> including MPEG-4 decoding.
Nov 08 13:44:00 <abraxa_> Awesome, thanks =)
Nov 08 13:44:57 <jserv--> :)
Nov 08 13:45:00 <emdete> hm, mokomakefile truncates all temp. script files like build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.1+svnr27222-r3.do_compile - can i somehow prevent that?
Nov 08 13:45:33 <roh> truncates?
Nov 08 13:45:37 <gi-el> temp script files aren't in stamps
Nov 08 13:45:47 <gi-el> they are in work/arm*/package_name/temp
Nov 08 13:47:08 <jserv--> abraxa_, however, I am of the opinion that OM internal can provide abstract video provider for you to write gst plugin without NDA.
Nov 08 13:47:22 <emdete> wonderful, you are right.. sry.
Nov 08 13:47:40 <jserv--> abraxa_, you can just use decoder/helper functions as well.
Nov 08 13:47:48 <emdete> i use those scripts to set my dev env... is there a better way if i want to develop outside of oe?
Nov 08 13:48:03 <roh> jserv-- well..  basically i think snippet of C and the register definitions are all whats needed.. docs are overrated anyways
Nov 08 13:48:23 <abraxa_> roh ;)
Nov 08 13:48:38 <jserv--> roh, hey :)
Nov 08 13:48:48 <roh> abraxa_ what would interrest me much more is how you want to integrate any hw-decoding into the gst pipeline.
Nov 08 13:49:11 <roh> hey jserv-- 
Nov 08 13:49:25 <jserv--> ouch, it's late in Taiwan.
Nov 08 13:49:34 <jserv--> see you later.
Nov 08 13:49:59 <roh> have fun. i will sleep soon too... *slurping coffee*
Nov 08 13:50:00 <abraxa_> roh: I'll look into that once I know how the glamo reacts when decoding video
Nov 08 13:50:57 <roh> hrhr.. well.. i think fiddeling hw decoding into gst is much more complex than actually using the glamo for it when we know how it works ;')
Nov 08 13:50:59 <abraxa_> I'll most likely just end up creating a GstElement that has no source pads 
Nov 08 13:51:17 <roh> no source?
Nov 08 13:51:22 <roh> you mean sink?
Nov 08 13:51:47 <abraxa_> No, I do mean source :)
Nov 08 13:52:26 <abraxa_> Yeah, gstreamer is using the *other* notation
Nov 08 13:52:36 <roh> wtf?
Nov 08 13:53:18 <Robot101> source pads produce data, sink pads receive data
Nov 08 13:53:24 <abraxa_> roh: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/section-elements-link.html
Nov 08 13:53:27 <Robot101> a source element has only source pads, a sink element has only sink pads
Nov 08 13:53:35 <roh> doh
Nov 08 13:55:55 <ScaredyCat> http://www.tomtom.com/  <-- go there, click 'Products'
Nov 08 13:56:08 <ScaredyCat> useless mofos
Nov 08 14:14:55 <emdete> ScaredyCat: have you read my questions above? that one about screen? do you have an idea?
Nov 08 14:21:41 <Henryk> question about screen?
Nov 08 14:22:17 <emdete> yes, screen always worked fine for me but since i use ScaredyCat's image it takes seconds to start or create a new window
Nov 08 14:22:36 <ScaredyCat> huyh? eh?
Nov 08 14:22:38 <ScaredyCat> wha?
Nov 08 14:22:46 <Henryk> yes, known bug, not ScaredyCats fault
Nov 08 14:23:03 * abraxa_ looks at termcap
Nov 08 14:23:08 <emdete> ah.. okay. is it related to wtmp?
Nov 08 14:24:04 <Henryk> http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3075
Nov 08 14:24:56 <Henryk> emdete: related to termcap, apparently XorA hasn't yet decided to include a fix.
Nov 08 14:25:31 <ScaredyCat> did you supply the .bb Henryk?
Nov 08 14:25:38 * ScaredyCat slaps XorA|gone - lots
Nov 08 14:27:15 <Henryk> last I heard about the issue was that my proposed fix wasn't quite optimal and might be done without virtual, i then asked whether i should implement the modification and resubmit or whether XorA would do that, then XorA answered that I should let him think about it some more
Nov 08 14:29:19 <ScaredyCat> well, he's had nearly a month
Nov 08 14:29:35 <ScaredyCat> so let's slap him till he does something
Nov 08 14:30:07 <ScaredyCat> I presume that the termcap from an old version is smaller?
Nov 08 14:30:23 <Henryk> no, there simply wasn't a termcap before
Nov 08 14:30:39 <ScaredyCat> k..
Nov 08 14:30:52 <Henryk> mickeyl added the one to unbreak openmoko-terminal2 which needs termcap (by virtue of vte) to work properly (e.g. backspace)
Nov 08 14:31:43 <Henryk> (so of course the best fix would be to fix vte to use terminfo instead of termcap and then drop the termcap again :)
Nov 08 14:35:15 <ScaredyCat> ok...
Nov 08 14:35:19 <emdete> hm, i reduced the file et viola it's fast. that's bad. why did that work in the past?
Nov 08 14:35:32 <ScaredyCat> I ran you fix on the termcap.. orks ok...
Nov 08 14:35:50 <ScaredyCat> I'll start putting the cut down one on my images
Nov 08 14:36:05 <emdete> ScaredyCat: please keep rxvt also ;)
Nov 08 14:38:19 <Henryk> emdete: because in the past there was no termcap. screen works fine without termcap (and uses terminfo) and termcap is deprecated anyways.
Nov 08 14:39:01 <ScaredyCat> ok, done
Nov 08 14:39:03 <emdete> so i could deinstall termcap if i dont use that terminal?
Nov 08 14:39:27 <ScaredyCat> on my next build  (tonight) that'll get put in
Nov 08 14:40:05 <emdete> ScaredyCat: do u also include manual fixes? i have some suggestions...
Nov 08 14:40:05 <Henryk> emdete: if you don't need openmoko-terminal2 (or don't care that it can't backspace) then you can just delete /etc/termcap, yes
Nov 08 14:40:13 <Henryk> (will also free 700k of flash!)
Nov 08 14:40:28 <emdete> Henryk: wonderful. thnx.
Nov 08 14:40:36 <ScaredyCat> yeah, if you have fixes I'm happy to put them in... if they don;t break stuff :)
Nov 08 14:40:53 <ScaredyCat> 700k is a lot!
Nov 08 14:42:16 <emdete> ScaredyCat: what do you think of this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS#Required_fixes ?
Nov 08 14:43:28 <ScaredyCat> well the nameserver one I am happy with  - I was debating if I should include it or not... but since it would be right for 99% of peeps then it'll go in
Nov 08 14:44:50 <emdete> ScaredyCat: what is the problem the 1% people have?
Nov 08 14:45:07 <ScaredyCat> they might use a different nameserver :)
Nov 08 14:45:26 <ScaredyCat> eg might use bluetooth?
Nov 08 14:45:53 <emdete> ScaredyCat: ah, okay. yes, bt/pan is a really nice problem
Nov 08 14:46:16 <emdete> i searching for  a good idea for fallback usb->pan->gprs ;)
Nov 08 14:46:34 <SpeedEvil> Second neo?
Nov 08 14:46:43 <ScaredyCat> yes please :)
Nov 08 14:47:00 <emdete> SpeedEvil: only gta02... ;)
Nov 08 14:47:05 <zash> pan?
Nov 08 14:47:10 <emdete> bt/pan
Nov 08 14:47:16 <emdete> the bedder wlan
Nov 08 14:47:17 <ScaredyCat> pussy activated networking
Nov 08 14:47:44 <ScaredyCat> although I can't do BT :(
Nov 08 14:48:31 <emdete> why not?
Nov 08 14:49:16 <ScaredyCat> it kills the wifi on my laptop everytime I try to connect, and when I plug/unplug the dongle.. :(
Nov 08 14:50:13 <ScaredyCat> so not very viable - I would have liked to get bt/pan working so I could nonce about without my laptop
Nov 08 14:52:39 <emdete> ScaredyCat: takes max an hour to empty the battery anyway..
Nov 08 14:53:23 <ScaredyCat> image it with wifi :/
Nov 08 14:54:18 <emdete> see... i always say wlan in a mobile i useless 
Nov 08 14:54:28 <hrw> emdete: lucky you
Nov 08 14:54:42 <hrw> my laptop battery is out after 40 minutes (without wifi)
Nov 08 14:55:12 <ScaredyCat> !
Nov 08 14:55:24 <ScaredyCat> I get 2.5 hrs on mine
Nov 08 14:55:33 * SpeedEvil gets 6-8h.
Nov 08 14:55:37 <emdete> hrw: yes, but it's not called mobile...
Nov 08 14:55:43 <SpeedEvil> And 1.1Kg.
Nov 08 14:55:50 <SpeedEvil> Though I do wish it's faster than PII/300
Nov 08 14:55:52 <ScaredyCat> on your laptop Sp?
Nov 08 14:55:56 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 08 14:56:09 <SpeedEvil> Re-celled the battery with modern cells.
Nov 08 14:56:11 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil: sounds like we've similar taste in laptops. fujitsu p2110 here
Nov 08 14:56:20 <emdete> maybe someone should start a wikipage with a list of people an the longest time they used the neo without cable...
Nov 08 14:56:23 <SpeedEvil> And have added internal wifi.
Nov 08 14:56:45 <zash> uptimeproject?
Nov 08 14:56:53 <ScaredyCat> well, my lappy only cost 300 quid 
Nov 08 14:57:07 <emdete> zash: good name...
Nov 08 14:57:09 <cjb_ie> ScaredyCat: win. mine cost $1200 five years ago
Nov 08 14:57:32 <ScaredyCat> ouch
Nov 08 14:57:44 <hrw> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07nov/uf010908.gif
Nov 08 14:57:58 <folken> afet
Nov 08 14:58:25 <folken> .o(hmm backspace and enter are so close..)
Nov 08 14:59:47 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Did you publish your kernel patch to make the battery readings more accurate somewhere?
Nov 08 14:59:55 <zash> folken: remap backspace to capslock?
Nov 08 14:59:57 <ScaredyCat> http://www.laptopreviews.org.uk/?s=igp - the 3692 is what I have
Nov 08 15:00:22 <cjb_ie> ScaredyCat: hey, that's $240/year
Nov 08 15:00:28 <folken> zash: heh, :)
Nov 08 15:00:51 <ScaredyCat> omfg! look at this:
Nov 08 15:00:55 <ScaredyCat> "Acer Aspire 3692 WL Mi Laptop has come with DDR2 SDRAM type of RAM technology that permits your system to access the information, files, or documents randomly."
Nov 08 15:01:14 <zash> OH MY GOD
Nov 08 15:01:17 <ScaredyCat> "The maximum ability of the system to support Random Access Memory is up to 2.048 GB."
Nov 08 15:01:18 <cjb_ie> just what i always wanted!
Nov 08 15:01:18 <zash> THATS AWESOME
Nov 08 15:01:18 <folken> rofl!
Nov 08 15:01:24 <ScaredyCat> holty crap
Nov 08 15:01:43 <cjb_ie> taiwinglish marketroids?
Nov 08 15:02:14 <emdete> ScaredyCat: back to the network issue: the link from /etc to /var is needed anyway, don't know why that is missing, right?
Nov 08 15:02:16 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: not yet, I'm getting wedged on other tasks. For example putting up polytunnel, and stuff. I have to get stuff off my backup drive, the system reinstalled properly.
Nov 08 15:02:27 <ScaredyCat> ls -lah /etc/hosts
Nov 08 15:02:29 <ScaredyCat> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 163 2007-11-07 14:28 /etc/resolv.conf
Nov 08 15:02:29 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: stuff that is currently weather dependant
Nov 08 15:02:37 <ScaredyCat> is that what they mean ;)
Nov 08 15:03:19 <emdete> ScaredyCat: interesting would be if dhcpc would write the file in the right place if the host pc would be the dhcpd
Nov 08 15:03:26 <ScaredyCat> emdete: I've only ever bothered with etc
Nov 08 15:03:44 <ScaredyCat> yes..
Nov 08 15:03:49 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Ahh, okay. Would rock if you could just grab it off the drive sometime so it can be finished/fixed/commited soon - no need to do it all yourself :)
Nov 08 15:03:52 <emdete> ScaredyCat: all scripts look like if the expect a symlink in /etc
Nov 08 15:04:09 <ScaredyCat> what distro ?
Nov 08 15:04:26 <emdete> yours ;) see ppp's scripts
Nov 08 15:05:39 <ScaredyCat> dagnabit
Nov 08 15:07:00 <emdete> another ugly thing is ppp's script /etc/ppp/ip-down.d/92removedns that does not remove the created file. perhaps you could add my fix also
Nov 08 15:07:43 <emdete> and last: /tmp is  a dir and /etc/init.d/boot..? does a symlink in there to /var/tmp
Nov 08 15:21:32 <emdete> ScaredyCat: ?
Nov 08 15:26:38 <hexa> hi all, just a little question anyone aware of a sip client in dev or plans for any sip clients on the device , I'd be interested in joining such an effort especialy if it's base on the Telepathy framework?
Nov 08 15:27:21 <CM> hexa: It has been discussed, and yes, Telepathy in particular :)
Nov 08 15:27:46 <zash> but, sms-program?
Nov 08 15:28:12 <hexa> CM: ok :) is there any wiki or anyting or it's too early yet? should I check the ml ?
Nov 08 15:29:12 <CM> Searching the ml's would be good
Nov 08 15:29:17 <hexa> CM: k thx :)
Nov 08 15:29:29 <CM> And, theres' some telepathy devs in here too
Nov 08 15:29:31 <zash> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007#IM.2FVOIP_using_telepathy
Nov 08 15:30:25 <hexa> zash,  k :) thx
Nov 08 15:30:45 <CM> zash: Thanks :)
Nov 08 15:32:44 <fulgas> sip client would be nice
Nov 08 15:32:47 <fulgas> :)
Nov 08 15:33:33 * zash think a im-style sms-app would be nice
Nov 08 15:33:53 <fulgas> yah.. more like it
Nov 08 15:34:45 <zash> that can choose best of [jabber over [wlan, bt, gprs], sms, etc..]
Nov 08 15:35:55 <hexa> having the voice client choose best between wifi voip and gprs would be really cool too.. 
Nov 08 15:36:36 <zash> how about a framework for choosing best of diffrent connectiontypes
Nov 08 15:37:10 <hexa> zash, seems like work for telepathy hehe :) I hope it's portable 
Nov 08 15:38:41 <zash> aha, so thats what helepathy is for
Nov 08 15:39:33 <folken> location or rather connectivity awareness. 
Nov 08 15:43:04 <hexa> zash, yeah :) seems easy with this to chose which "connecter" will be used for a channel... just need a gprs and a sip connector and something the plug the right one in...
Nov 08 15:44:23 <zash> is there even a sms-app now?
Nov 08 15:46:30 <seemant> I want my GTA02
Nov 08 15:53:09 * CM too
Nov 08 15:53:33 <CM> seemant: Meaning i also want yours ;)
Nov 08 15:53:44 <zash> NO, I WANT IT!
Nov 08 15:58:51 <ScaredyCat> wtf!
Nov 08 15:58:59 <ScaredyCat> 4 bulb just ble
Nov 08 15:59:00 <ScaredyCat> w
Nov 08 16:00:07 * ScaredyCat mutters about not having spares
Nov 08 16:07:44 <seemant> CM: haha
Nov 08 16:09:19 <bardack> hi everybody
Nov 08 16:09:27 <seemant> hi
Nov 08 16:09:35 <bardack> damn, I m doing the : make openmoko-devel-image ... How much place that will take?
Nov 08 16:09:39 <bardack> :s
Nov 08 16:09:50 <bardack> that make will explode my quota of 10Gb :)
Nov 08 16:10:20 <ScaredyCat> all of it
Nov 08 16:10:36 <ScaredyCat> it's like a giant sponge
Nov 08 16:11:00 <bardack> ?
Nov 08 16:11:08 <bardack> could you be more precise or not? :s
Nov 08 16:11:27 <bardack> that will take the 10Gb of my quota? :s
Nov 08 16:11:29 <torpor> are you using rm_work?
Nov 08 16:11:33 <torpor> its about 8 gigs without rm_work
Nov 08 16:11:37 <bardack> ....
Nov 08 16:11:46 <bardack> I don't know about rm_work
Nov 08 16:11:55 <bardack> just follow the tutorial for using on Xephyr
Nov 08 16:12:31 <ScaredyCat> torpor: way more than 8 without rm_work
Nov 08 16:12:38 <bardack> ... damn ...
Nov 08 16:12:46 <bardack> I will see
Nov 08 16:12:50 <bardack> thank you guys ;)
Nov 08 16:12:58 <mmontour_> The wiki says rm_work is the default as of mid-October
Nov 08 16:13:10 <ScaredyCat> /dev/hda4              74G   37G   34G  52% /builder
Nov 08 16:13:37 <ScaredyCat> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
Nov 08 16:17:22 <_diego_> at least 12Gb without rm_work ...
Nov 08 16:20:54 <flexd> bardack: want me to check the size of my ~/moko ? I just compiled it during the night
Nov 08 16:23:30 <ScaredyCat> ScaredyCat: ping
Nov 08 16:23:34 <flexd> err nvm, i have no idea what the command to see how big folders are
Nov 08 16:23:36 <flexd> ScaredyCat: pong?
Nov 08 16:23:50 <ScaredyCat> was testing my regex
Nov 08 16:23:56 <ScaredyCat> ignores me
Nov 08 16:24:11 <mmontour_> flexd: du -sh ~/moko
Nov 08 16:24:56 * ScaredyCat points up at /dev/hda4 usage
Nov 08 16:25:20 <flexd> mmontour_: du -sh supposed to take a long time?
Nov 08 16:25:23 <ScaredyCat> no rm_work, includes all downloads
Nov 08 16:25:29 <ScaredyCat> flexd: it's take ages
Nov 08 16:25:34 <ScaredyCat> it'll
Nov 08 16:25:34 <flexd> great.
Nov 08 16:25:38 <flexd> why didnt i screen it >_<
Nov 08 16:26:23 <ScaredyCat> can you ping me pls
Nov 08 16:26:39 <flexd> http://rafb.net/p/i8GFtP46.html
Nov 08 16:26:41 <flexd> ScaredyCat: ping
Nov 08 16:26:47 <flexd> What kind of regex are you making anyway?
Nov 08 16:26:53 <ScaredyCat> that's a fail :(
Nov 08 16:26:54 <flexd> (or do you mean real ping?)
Nov 08 16:26:58 <ScaredyCat> no
Nov 08 16:27:00 <flexd> What are you trying to do
Nov 08 16:27:14 <ScaredyCat> notifications in konversation...
Nov 08 16:27:25 <flexd> if 'nick' in data: do poo.
Nov 08 16:27:37 <ScaredyCat> need to regex the ping
Nov 08 16:27:44 <flexd> to get the ping?
Nov 08 16:27:50 <flexd> split the data?
Nov 08 16:28:04 <flexd> regex sounds horribly advanced to get the text someone says
Nov 08 16:28:06 <ScaredyCat> get the ping, for a series of nicks
Nov 08 16:28:59 <ScaredyCat> it's either regex, or every possible combination of character case for each nick
Nov 08 16:29:04 <flexd> What kind of data?
Nov 08 16:29:12 <flexd> Paste a line containing the data or something
Nov 08 16:29:28 <ScaredyCat>  ScaredyCat: ping
Nov 08 16:29:30 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 08 16:29:37 <flexd> Split by : ? ;)
Nov 08 16:29:46 <ScaredyCat> nothing...
Nov 08 16:30:12 <ScaredyCat> it needs to match ScAreDYCat:piNG too
Nov 08 16:30:21 <ScaredyCat> ie ignore case, ignore spaces...
Nov 08 16:30:24 <flexd> hold on
Nov 08 16:30:49 <ScaredyCat> I can only do regex or literals -- those are the two options in konversation
Nov 08 16:31:09 <flexd> oh, konversation is some chat program or something? :/
Nov 08 16:31:17 <ScaredyCat> yes, irc client
Nov 08 16:31:21 <ScaredyCat> kde
Nov 08 16:32:53 <flexd> :(
Nov 08 16:32:57 <flexd> I was thinking python
Nov 08 16:34:01 <don-o>  /topic
Nov 08 16:34:44 * ScaredyCat slaps don-o
Nov 08 16:34:59 <ScaredyCat> you did that yesterday,... remember.. :)
Nov 08 16:35:11 <don-o> damn, i was hoping noone would remember
Nov 08 16:35:17 <don-o> :)
Nov 08 16:35:51 <CM> hehe
Nov 08 16:35:52 <don-o> the address book app is a custom openmoko app, right?
Nov 08 16:36:15 <ScaredyCat> yeah, think it is
Nov 08 16:36:40 <don-o> i want to look at adding FOAF support to it
Nov 08 16:37:44 <don-o> is there a wiki page for Address Book? im not finding one.
Nov 08 16:38:35 <don-o> ah its called Contacts. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Contacts/2007.2
Nov 08 16:43:40 <ScaredyCat> i thought it was going to be symcML'd
Nov 08 16:50:18 <bardack> and how can I know if I download rm_work too ? :s
Nov 08 16:51:29 <ScaredyCat> ?
Nov 08 16:51:48 <bardack> with make openmoko-devel-image
Nov 08 16:51:56 <ScaredyCat> put: INHERIT += "rm_work" in your build/conf/local.conf
Nov 08 16:52:22 <bardack> I don't have that line, then I don't take rm_work I think
Nov 08 16:52:25 <ScaredyCat> rm_work means rm (remove) work dirs after i'm done using them
Nov 08 16:52:40 <bardack> oki
Nov 08 16:53:15 <ScaredyCat> some parts take lots of space to build, and other things rely on them, so it might use lots of space, then suddenly free it up...
Nov 08 16:53:34 <bardack> okay
Nov 08 16:53:38 <ScaredyCat> emdete: waht?
Nov 08 16:54:14 <don-o> i filled up a 10GB disk even with rm_work
Nov 08 16:55:32 <Ghiottone|work> don-o I think it happens only for the first build, not for incremental update and build
Nov 08 16:56:11 <don-o> Ghiottone|work: yeah this was the first build. do you know how many GB it should use with rm_work? im using a vmware image with only a 12gb partition and ubuntu takes up 2-3 of those.
Nov 08 16:56:12 <ScaredyCat> yeah, it's usually a full build from the start that chews up space. 
Nov 08 16:56:24 * ScaredyCat makes coffee
Nov 08 16:57:58 <ScaredyCat> :o 17gb already this month
Nov 08 16:58:13 <Ghiottone|work> don-o sorry I don't have it with me right now. but you could try to do a make build-package-<packagename> for those packages that use a lot of space
Nov 08 16:58:32 <Ghiottone|work> don-o that should force the stage and rm_work phase
Nov 08 17:03:52 <ScaredyCat> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=19623
Nov 08 17:03:59 * ScaredyCat pitys the fools
Nov 08 17:10:33 <jeddy3> ScaredyCat, omg...here we go again :P
Nov 08 17:12:33 <jeddy3> btw...  i reccon this android impact is so vastly far beyond any iphone-hype
Nov 08 17:25:26 <ozarka> ScaredyCat: I think people would camp out for Neo's.  If there was store.
Nov 08 17:25:45 <PBeck> hi
Nov 08 17:25:56 <ozarka> Virtual camping on the wiki is easier;
Nov 08 17:25:58 <ozarka> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo
Nov 08 17:26:08 <ozarka> Only buyers.  No sellers so far.
Nov 08 17:27:20 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 08 17:27:42 <ozarka> Good thing about the wiki is you can jump to the head of the line.
Nov 08 17:28:08 <ozarka> You can even erase all the people behind you.  :-)
Nov 08 17:28:35 <ScaredyCat> lol - but the evidence remains
Nov 08 17:31:09 <aga1nst> hello room
Nov 08 17:31:18 <aga1nst> any1 from germany in here?
Nov 08 17:33:02 <Gareth> good morning.
Nov 08 17:33:23 <aga1nst> good MORNIN?:D
Nov 08 17:48:20 <don-o> do i need OE.mtn.bz2? its already got OE.mtn
Nov 08 17:49:23 <CM> you can remove the bz2
Nov 08 18:27:41 <ckuethe> userfriendly.org today is good....
Nov 08 18:46:50 <ScaredyCat> that's a fecking shite servr
Nov 08 18:48:18 <torpor> nice deal:
Nov 08 18:48:20 <torpor> http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4842001#
Nov 08 18:55:00 <nelson> Is Android just a press release?
Nov 08 18:55:06 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Nov 08 18:55:07 * nelson ducks, covers, and runs.
Nov 08 18:55:08 <SpeedEvil> At the moment
Nov 08 18:57:28 <pH5> actually there's already fallout from that. google has set up a git repo for msm7k soc.
Nov 08 18:59:59 <Zoolooc> guess the most important thing is kernel support for the msm7k soc, then one could run anything on it, right?
Nov 08 19:06:55 <daMaestro> i like the new start screen or "home"
Nov 08 19:07:05 <daMaestro> granted the clock is a little.. ummm.. yeah, it's still cool
Nov 08 19:07:51 <anrp> D:?
Nov 08 19:07:52 <anrp> pics!
Nov 08 19:26:41 <cb22> hmm, a 312mhz xscale ipaq with a screen of 240x240 can play back a full series episode (350mb, 25fps) at 90% speed...
Nov 08 19:27:16 <guaqua> at 90% speed :)
Nov 08 19:27:34 <cb22> true
Nov 08 19:27:46 <cb22> but thats a 350mb file at quite a few times the screens res
Nov 08 19:28:27 <cb22> 7??x4?? or so
Nov 08 19:29:19 <SpeedEvil> a full series what ep?
Nov 08 19:29:27 <cb22> prison break
Nov 08 19:29:41 <cb22> season 3 episode 7
Nov 08 19:29:44 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 08 19:30:06 <cb22> maybe tcpmp has one-up on mplayer in terms of speed on arm?
Nov 08 19:31:23 <pH5> cb22: what ipaq, does it have ati graphics?
Nov 08 19:59:48 <guaqua> libusb-native doesn't build
Nov 08 20:00:42 <anrp> ze error?
Nov 08 20:01:22 <guaqua> g++: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.1.3/../../../../lib/crtn.o: No such file or directory     make[3]: *** [libusbpp.la] Error 1
Nov 08 20:02:45 <guaqua> looks like i'm lacking some libraries...or there's something else
Nov 08 20:31:01 <ruxpin> what does crtn.o do?
Nov 08 20:31:21 <SpeedEvil> It's a bluetooth curtain-opener protocol.
Nov 08 20:31:55 <ruxpin> what are the bluetooth-libraries called?
Nov 08 20:32:09 <SpeedEvil> That wasn't actually serious,s orry.
Nov 08 20:32:53 <bardack> youhou 'make' finished :)
Nov 08 20:32:57 <ruxpin> crtn <=> certification?
Nov 08 20:33:42 <Writchie> ruxpin: bluez-libs
Nov 08 20:34:31 <gggggig> are there new roms of openmoko for htc magigian?
Nov 08 20:35:17 <mmontour_> ruxpin: it's a "C runtime" library (standard part of glibc)
Nov 08 20:35:21 <ruxpin> Writchie: is it linux in this device?
Nov 08 20:35:59 <Writchie> ruxpin: which device? neo?
Nov 08 20:36:27 <ruxpin> neo1973
Nov 08 20:36:29 <torpor> crtn = crt for the 'n' memory model.
Nov 08 20:36:43 <Writchie> ruxpin: yes 
Nov 08 20:36:54 <torpor> crt = c runtime
Nov 08 20:37:15 <vciaglia> umh...what is the "Setting antenna power" error?
Nov 08 20:38:08 <ruxpin> is openmoko based on any existing distribution?
Nov 08 20:39:01 <Writchie> ruxpin: sort of angstrom - debian like
Nov 08 20:39:41 <Writchie> see openembedded and the openmoko.org wiki
Nov 08 20:39:57 <vciaglia> umh...i can't see any applications in the menu, why?
Nov 08 20:40:23 <ruxpin> Writchie: does it use something like portage to build the software?
Nov 08 20:40:24 <Mek> ah, it isn't only me :) (well, I have the media player and the games in the menu, but nothing else)
Nov 08 20:40:50 <Writchie> ruxpin: open embedded based on bitbake
Nov 08 20:41:17 <Writchie> bitbake was loosely portage like atleast originally
Nov 08 20:41:47 <ruxpin> aaah :)
Nov 08 20:41:48 <Writchie> building openmoko not for the faint of heart
Nov 08 20:41:54 <mmontour_> Anyone have any ideas about an openmoko-appmanager2 build failure, http://www.pastebin.ca/766363 ?
Nov 08 20:49:37 <bardack> mmm
Nov 08 20:49:45 <bardack> I ve some troubles with Xephyr
Nov 08 20:49:55 <bardack> if somebody has already done this on Ubuntu or whatever
Nov 08 20:50:12 <bardack> I finish the : make openmoko-devel-image
Nov 08 20:50:24 <bardack> chroot moko/mokobox /bin/sh
Nov 08 20:50:35 <bardack> change the configurations (DISPLAY=:1 ...)
Nov 08 20:50:46 <bardack> and after in an other Konsole, I want to launch Xephyr
Nov 08 20:50:48 <ScaredyCat> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Nov 08 20:50:52 <bardack> and it doesnt work 
Nov 08 20:51:00 <enjahova> what happens?
Nov 08 20:51:26 <bardack> but I can launch that with Konsole (using KDE) ?
Nov 08 20:52:12 <enjahova> i'm using gnome
Nov 08 20:52:15 <bardack> I will copy the error
Nov 08 20:52:21 <enjahova> but what happens when you launch xephyr?
Nov 08 20:52:22 <bardack> on pastebin, moment pliz ;)
Nov 08 20:52:23 <enjahova> ok
Nov 08 20:54:19 <bardack> mmm now Xephyr launch
Nov 08 20:54:31 <bardack> in the terminal I ve done the : eval (...)
Nov 08 20:54:38 <bardack> and I just launch /etc/X11/Xsession
Nov 08 20:54:41 <bardack> and wait now :)
Nov 08 20:55:30 <bardack> after the launch, it will take time to have something in Xephyr?
Nov 08 20:56:15 * torpor creams over pyglet.
Nov 08 20:56:19 <torpor> i want pyglet on neo!  :)
Nov 08 20:58:05 <enjahova> it should take a short amount of time
Nov 08 20:58:50 <enjahova> wow pyglet looks smooth torpor
Nov 08 20:58:53 <torpor> yeah
Nov 08 20:58:54 <bardack> 5minutes after ...
Nov 08 20:58:57 <torpor> i'd love to have it on neo .. 
Nov 08 20:59:54 <bardack> I will paste the problem
Nov 08 21:00:17 <enjahova> torpor how big is it?
Nov 08 21:00:49 <enjahova> so you think this is an adequate replacement for pygame?
Nov 08 21:03:42 <bardack> mmmm I don't understand
Nov 08 21:03:58 <torpor> hell yeah its tons better than pygame
Nov 08 21:04:00 <bardack> I see nothing in Xephyr but if I do : ps faux , I see openmoko-start and openmoko-dailer
Nov 08 21:05:07 <enjahova> so you did the eval(... stuff in the chroot konsole right?
Nov 08 21:05:22 <bardack> http://pastebin.com/m12985335
Nov 08 21:05:27 <bardack> yeah I think
Nov 08 21:05:28 <enjahova> and both displays are set to the same one
Nov 08 21:05:28 <bardack> :s
Nov 08 21:06:02 <enjahova> so your xephyr command also uses display:1?
Nov 08 21:06:14 <bardack> I m on a laptop
Nov 08 21:06:14 <enjahova> cuz it looks like openmoko started just fine
Nov 08 21:06:22 <bardack> I ve only 1 display
Nov 08 21:06:27 <bardack> yeah if I do : ps faux
Nov 08 21:06:28 <enjahova> Xephyr :1 -ac -2button -host-cursor -screen 480x640
Nov 08 21:06:32 <enjahova> you did that?
Nov 08 21:06:54 <bardack> I see 
Nov 08 21:06:54 <bardack> root      6045 24.6  0.2  11996  3016 pts/1    R+   22:04   0:22 openmoko-today
Nov 08 21:06:54 <bardack> root      6047 24.6  0.3  11832  3172 pts/1    R+   22:04   0:22 openmoko-dialer
Nov 08 21:06:54 <bardack> root      6049 24.5  0.2   8800  2200 pts/1    R+   22:04   0:22 matchbox-panel-2 --start-applets systray,startup --end-applets openmoko-panel
Nov 08 21:06:57 <bardack> yep 
Nov 08 21:07:02 <bardack> first : launch Xephyr
Nov 08 21:07:10 <enjahova> you exported the DISPLAY, LANG and HOME in the chroot too?
Nov 08 21:07:10 <bardack> then /etc/X11/Xsession
Nov 08 21:07:34 <bardack> each time I do :  chroot /...  I need to do again the configuration ?
Nov 08 21:08:06 <bardack> ok then I stop Xephyr, stop chroot and launch again to be sure
Nov 08 21:08:43 <bardack>  /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Nov 08 21:08:47 <bardack> when I launch the chroot
Nov 08 21:08:52 <bardack> it is normal I think no?
Nov 08 21:09:23 <enjahova> i don't get that message
Nov 08 21:09:27 <enjahova> maybe you need to sudo chroot?
Nov 08 21:09:29 <bardack> mmmm
Nov 08 21:09:36 <bardack> I do in su
Nov 08 21:09:39 <enjahova> oh ok
Nov 08 21:09:41 <enjahova> hmm
Nov 08 21:09:58 <enjahova> you shouldn't have to export everytime
Nov 08 21:10:03 <enjahova> just type export in chroot and check the variables
Nov 08 21:10:11 <bardack> yeah
Nov 08 21:11:07 <bardack> it is a problem that he can't access tty I think
Nov 08 21:11:20 <enjahova> i see
Nov 08 21:11:34 <bardack> I do the configuration again, to try
Nov 08 21:11:37 <enjahova> you mounted /dev and proc?
Nov 08 21:12:43 <bardack> yep
Nov 08 21:12:45 <bardack> same problem
Nov 08 21:12:50 <bardack> I launch Xephyr
Nov 08 21:12:57 <bardack> then , /etc/X11/Xsession
Nov 08 21:13:06 <bardack> My computer works
Nov 08 21:13:31 <bardack> ps faux give: openmoko-today , openmoko-dialer are launch
Nov 08 21:13:44 <bardack> then the problem is the tty not accessible when I m root I think
Nov 08 21:17:53 <flexd> sort of a quick question; what do you guys use to read the mailing lists?
Nov 08 21:18:02 <flexd> Just the browser or is there some sort of client? :/
Nov 08 21:18:14 <flexd> I havent really been in any mailing lists before
Nov 08 21:18:17 <flexd> or do you get mail >_>
Nov 08 21:18:41 <flexd> (i feel silly now, getting mail kinda sounds natural)
Nov 08 21:18:42 <bardack> get mail in gmail for me
Nov 08 21:18:55 <flexd> i guess i just need to sign up on mailing lists then
Nov 08 21:19:00 <bardack> yep
Nov 08 21:19:28 <bardack> rahhh I don't understand ... 3 days to have all I need to launch openMoko on Xephyr ... and now on the last line ... doesn't work ...
Nov 08 21:20:23 <hrw> flexd: few choices: you can get mails to you, you can read on gmane, you can look at online archives (worst way)
Nov 08 21:20:25 <enjahova> i don't know =
Nov 08 21:20:27 <enjahova> =\
Nov 08 21:20:50 <bardack> me not :s
Nov 08 21:22:17 <enjahova> you might want to try Xoo
Nov 08 21:22:32 <enjahova> its very similar, replaces Xephyr
Nov 08 21:23:22 <bardack> mmm I don't know Xoo
Nov 08 21:23:24 <bardack> I will try
Nov 08 21:23:36 <Gareth> http://digg.com/linux_unix/SCALE_Looking_for_Free_Open_Source_Projects
Nov 08 21:28:02 <bardack> need to launch Xephyr in root too?
Nov 08 21:30:18 <bardack> don't understand :( pfff
Nov 08 21:30:31 <bardack> oh that's run
Nov 08 21:30:41 <bardack> gsmd error
Nov 08 21:30:59 <bardack> see the desktop and just when I move the mouse, just see the tollbar on the top
Nov 08 21:31:02 <bardack> the clock disapears
Nov 08 21:32:39 <bardack> launch is ok , error is:         Dialer : Error connecting gsmd
Nov 08 21:32:56 <bardack> at that moment I see the Home Icon, the toolbar on the right
Nov 08 21:33:11 <bardack> just below I see icon with an X (don't find the picture maybe)
Nov 08 21:33:22 <bardack> below: the clock with the correct hour
Nov 08 21:33:26 <bardack> and the date
Nov 08 21:33:45 <enjahova> you just click ok on the dialer error
Nov 08 21:33:52 <enjahova> it will always do that on emulation
Nov 08 21:34:00 <bardack> ok
Nov 08 21:34:24 <enjahova> you may be missing some icons if you didnt copy them like one step in the tutorial
Nov 08 21:34:26 <enjahova> i had a problem with that
Nov 08 21:34:31 <enjahova> infact i still have a problem with that
Nov 08 21:34:39 <enjahova> where some icons are missing
Nov 08 21:34:40 <bardack> mmm not stable :s
Nov 08 21:34:55 <enjahova> yeah =\
Nov 08 21:35:03 <bardack> I click on the +  below
Nov 08 21:35:07 <bardack> see media player
Nov 08 21:35:11 <bardack> double click ... freeze
Nov 08 21:35:23 <bardack> and my cpu turn crazy :)
Nov 08 21:35:40 <bardack> 10Gb for that :|
Nov 08 21:37:00 <enjahova> haha
Nov 08 21:37:07 <enjahova> i never messed with the media player
Nov 08 21:37:21 <enjahova> i just want to be able to test some gtk apps
Nov 08 21:37:39 <bardack> hehe
Nov 08 21:37:45 <bardack> ok then my 10Gb quota for that
Nov 08 21:37:46 <bardack> cool :)
Nov 08 21:38:03 <enjahova> think of it as dedication :P
Nov 08 21:38:11 <bardack> lol yep
Nov 08 21:39:03 <bardack> then, sleep time :)
Nov 08 21:39:09 <bardack> I hope that on the Neo that works better :)
Nov 08 21:40:22 <enjahova> i assume so
Nov 08 21:40:34 <bardack> hehe
Nov 08 21:40:36 <bardack> see you guys ;)
Nov 08 21:40:40 <zecke> ljp: yet?
Nov 08 21:46:23 <josch> hi! how can I receive sms with openmoko? I tried libgsmd-tool -m shell but it segfaulted
Nov 08 21:49:02 <ljp> zecke: here
Nov 08 21:52:15 <zecke> ljp: telco is in one hour?
Nov 08 21:52:18 <zecke> oops :)
Nov 08 22:11:07 <mmontour> josch: libgsmd-tool should work, but it's picky about syntax. Try sl=1 to list, sr=3 to read msg 3, etc.
Nov 08 22:11:45 <josch> mmontour, thx will try that
Nov 08 22:14:39 <josch> wow, this is somewhat interesting! sl=1 shows me messages I got the LAST YEAR!
Nov 08 22:15:48 <josch> how do I get my current messages?
Nov 08 22:16:46 <josch> only sl=1 will work sl=2 etc dowas nothing
Nov 08 22:18:41 <balrog-kun> josch: sl=4 means show all in PDU mode
Nov 08 22:19:14 <josch> so how do I get my present messages?
Nov 08 22:19:34 <balrog-kun> what do you mean by present?
Nov 08 22:19:36 <josch> I was suprised to see that my provider saves all my messages even up to now
Nov 08 22:19:38 <balrog-kun> not older than X ?
Nov 08 22:19:51 <balrog-kun> they aren't saved by your provider
Nov 08 22:19:55 <balrog-kun> they are on your card
Nov 08 22:20:11 <josch> with sl=1 I get 15 messages from 2006
Nov 08 22:20:26 <josch> so how do I check if someone send me an sms and read this?
Nov 08 22:21:25 <balrog-kun> 0 means show unread only (marking them as read at the same time)
Nov 08 22:21:39 <balrog-kun> check the docs btw.
Nov 08 22:22:16 <josch> i already did sl=0 but nothing was shown
Nov 08 22:22:31 <josch> so this means that I do not received a message?
Nov 08 22:22:36 <balrog-kun> you have no unread messages
Nov 08 22:22:44 <josch> ah thx!!
Nov 08 22:22:56 <balrog-kun> i only always use sl=4
Nov 08 22:23:19 <josch> what does it do?
Nov 08 22:24:01 <josch> i tried it and get the same output as with sl=1
Nov 08 22:24:10 <balrog-kun> shows ALL messages (as i said three minutes ago)
Nov 08 22:24:25 <josch> sry must have overread it
Nov 08 22:24:37 <josch> where can I look up the meaning of the numbers myself?
Nov 08 22:25:17 <balrog-kun> in the GSM07.05 specification
Nov 08 22:25:31 <balrog-kun> there are only five numbers allowed
Nov 08 22:28:53 <hrw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1O2jcfOylU
Nov 08 22:37:20 <summatusmentis> I saw something recently about GTA02 not supporting one of the four bands it's supposed to? Maybe the 850Mhz band?
Nov 08 22:37:55 <hrw> gta is 900/1800/1900 only
Nov 08 22:38:25 <summatusmentis> was the plan for it to be 850 as well?
Nov 08 22:39:05 <hrw> cant tell - I am not in openmoko HW team
Nov 08 22:39:26 <summatusmentis> hrw: mmm, ok. That's a bummer
Nov 08 22:39:34 * hrw -> sleep
Nov 08 22:39:37 <hrw> bye
Nov 08 22:39:40 <summatusmentis> sleep well
Nov 08 22:40:35 <ozarka> summatusmentis: See the links on this page for an explanation about the 850 issue.
Nov 08 22:40:43 <ozarka> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo
Nov 08 22:45:28 <summatusmentis> ozarka: oh... well, that's unfortunate
Nov 08 22:46:28 <ozarka> Yeah.  It certainly generated lots of traffic on the mailing list.
Nov 08 22:47:54 <summatusmentis> I'm sure. That kinda makes it pointless for a lot of US/north american users
Nov 08 22:49:18 <ozarka> Sort of.
Nov 08 22:49:30 <ozarka> I'm in the US and I get reception on my Neo.
Nov 08 22:50:04 <summatusmentis> where do you live? Many places, outside of cities don't use 1900 band
Nov 08 22:50:04 <ozarka> I would get reception in a wider area if I had 850.
Nov 08 22:50:43 <ozarka> But there is just no way the Neo could be my primary phone, so it's not an issue.
Nov 08 22:50:59 <flexd> not yet anyway
Nov 08 22:51:26 <summatusmentis> for me, it means that i can't use the neo, because the two places I live, use the 850 band
Nov 08 22:52:25 <ozarka> Yeah.  It sucks that it doesn't have it, and it sucks that it was sold with false specifications.
Nov 08 22:53:25 <ozarka> I think the OM team has had to put up with a lot of grief because they released something before it was ready for the market.
Nov 08 22:53:26 <don-o> ive had the same non-850 (triband) gms phone for 5 years.
Nov 08 22:53:26 <Writchie> ozarka: and no explanation as to why (or apology) - just oh you idiots in the U.S. don't use the german band
Nov 08 22:53:58 <don-o> 850 is the new-commer to the US
Nov 08 22:54:18 <ozarka> First, people complained because of all the shipping problems (delays, tarriffs, no communication)
Nov 08 22:55:35 <torpor> bah!
Nov 08 22:55:47 <torpor> what part of "its a developer release so you can start writing apps for it" don't people understand?
Nov 08 22:56:12 <ozarka> If they just kept it all private, they could have avoided the headache.
Nov 08 22:56:28 <torpor> what headache?  there are cool coders working on openmoko apps as we speak
Nov 08 22:56:30 <ozarka> But then we would have just complained that they weren't releasing soon enough.
Nov 08 22:56:35 <torpor> thats worth the effort.
Nov 08 22:56:41 <mjr> Indeed. And one of the points here is early availability.
Nov 08 22:56:49 <ozarka> torpor:  the headache of listening to people complaining.
Nov 08 22:57:03 <ozarka> I'm glad they released.
Nov 08 22:57:07 <torpor> there are too many people buying the neo1973 right now expecting a consumer experience
Nov 08 22:57:19 <ozarka> torpor:  I agree.  
Nov 08 22:57:37 <torpor> lotsa wannabe coders who are really only playing consumer brinkmanship and then whining about it instead of actually doing something useful with the hardware.
Nov 08 22:57:38 <ozarka> No matter how many disclaimers, people still expect to use it as a consumer device.
Nov 08 22:58:15 <mjr> (Of course, "developer release" or not, it was sold as quad, so returns should be taken from those who want to, but anyway, bickering about it isn't going to improve the situation in any way)
Nov 08 22:58:32 <ozarka> mjr:  Have you seen the sales page?
Nov 08 22:58:50 <ozarka> No one is putting their device up for sale.
Nov 08 22:58:58 <torpor> later i'm out.  night time here.
Nov 08 22:59:31 <mjr> ozarka, that's a good sign, of course
Nov 08 23:00:01 <ozarka> It's bad that they sold is as quad band and it wasn't, but I think that just shows how immature OM is as an organization.
Nov 08 23:00:09 <mjr> (and I won't be, but I'm not in the unpromised land of GSM)
Nov 08 23:00:26 <ozarka> They don't have the infrastructure to do this right.
Nov 08 23:00:29 <mjr> (though, realistically, I wouldn't be tossing mine anyway)
Nov 08 23:00:35 <ozarka> But that doesn't mean they should give up.
Nov 08 23:00:40 <mjr> *nod*
Nov 08 23:00:47 <don-o> an ebay search for neo1973 shows no units for sale.
Nov 08 23:02:32 <mjr> there was one guy on community list who mentioned he'd be wanting a refund if the SIM problem wouldn't go away soon, that's all I've really seen of people wanting to get rid of theirs
Nov 08 23:02:58 <don-o> i wouldnt mind picking up a gta01 for $100
Nov 08 23:02:58 <PITABoy> what is the sim problem
Nov 08 23:03:00 <Zoolooc> folks, if these phones can be bought for money, usually somebody who buys, expects something. this company behind the neo thinks it can make both money and development by those who pay
Nov 08 23:03:20 <flexd> They way i see it is this way; If you want and can develop something for OM/the neo, and you want one. Why not buy one when gta02 comes out?
Nov 08 23:03:37 <mjr> Zoolooc, they can expect something; early access to an open phone for development
Nov 08 23:03:41 <ozarka> Zoolooc: How much money do you think they're making by selling a few hundred phones?
Nov 08 23:03:46 <torpor> i bought a gta01 so i could write apps for it before the gta02 is released, and then when the gta02 is released, benefit from the exposure...
Nov 08 23:03:48 <flexd> So what, the software isnt entierly end-user yet, but it's gonna improve, and when it does either with you helping or not, it's gonna be a proper phone.
Nov 08 23:03:52 <ozarka> I have a Neo and I got what I expected to get.
Nov 08 23:04:05 <mjr> and indeed, as ozarka said, tha GTA01 isn't likely to have made immediate business sense
Nov 08 23:05:00 <Zoolooc> not much, probably. but expecting enthousiasts to do the whole hard work, and also having them pay, is a bit adventurous, imho
Nov 08 23:05:23 <mjr> Zoolooc, it would be. If they were doing that, you know. But you're just making up strawmen now
Nov 08 23:05:51 <ozarka> OM has given free phones to developers who helped out.
Nov 08 23:06:00 <flexd> Me personally; I'm not a very experienced coder, i can't make advanced shit that will benefit OM in any way (afaik anyway) in C and stuff. But i really really want a phone in the future, both because i want to learn more programming and linux, and it's a fucking awsome phone. I can't really help much with stuff, but im gonna be making alot of stuff in python when i get the phone.
Nov 08 23:06:04 <PITABoy> if i buy a gta01 or a gta02 will it work as a phone of just as a pda
Nov 08 23:06:18 <ozarka> There's a nomination page on the wiki if you want to nominate someone (or yourself)
Nov 08 23:06:35 <ozarka> PITABoy:  If you buy a gta01, it may not even work as a pda.
Nov 08 23:06:45 <ozarka> Don't expect to do anything "useful" with it at all.
Nov 08 23:06:53 <PITABoy> why is that 
Nov 08 23:06:56 <Zoolooc> see, that's the problem
Nov 08 23:06:58 <ozarka> gta02 may or may not be any better.
Nov 08 23:07:08 <PITABoy> i thought that they had openmoko working
Nov 08 23:07:15 * mjr is using his GTA01 as a phone as we speak, incidentally; of course it's highly rudimentary, but still
Nov 08 23:07:23 <ozarka> It's a developer preview so people can start writing apps.
Nov 08 23:07:33 <Zoolooc> which is ok
Nov 08 23:07:47 <mjr> and I don't see why gta01 wouldn't become a proper phone eventually, it's mostly a matter of software maturing
Nov 08 23:08:10 <ozarka> Sure.  It might be a great phone in 6 months.
Nov 08 23:08:16 <mjr> that said, if you're like Zoolooc here, simply don't buy the phone before it's marketed to consumers.
Nov 08 23:08:18 <Zoolooc> what I don't really find ok, is inviting them to pay for it, beforte there is any proper software available
Nov 08 23:08:41 <flexd> afaik gta02 is supposed to be the end-user hardware right?
Nov 08 23:08:43 <mjr> Zoolooc, what if we wanted to?
Nov 08 23:08:46 <mjr> flexd, yes.
Nov 08 23:08:47 <ozarka> Zoolooc:  There are so many warning about this, I don't think anyone was fooled.
Nov 08 23:08:55 <ozarka> I wasn't fooled.  I got what I wanted.
Nov 08 23:09:11 <don-o> i wasn't fooled, i opted not to buy one.
Nov 08 23:09:15 <flexd> mjr: thought so, so even if the software isnt done now... It will be in the future, and then the phone will be 100% usable like it should be
Nov 08 23:09:30 <mjr> flexd, that's the plan at least.
Nov 08 23:09:33 <Zoolooc> I would have bought it and started coding, if it at least had "some" working OS (like WM) to be able to also do something useful with it, while not coding for linux on it
Nov 08 23:09:34 <ozarka> I think gta02 is supposed to be more consumer oriented, but apparently it's still going to lack 850.
Nov 08 23:09:35 <flexd> mhm
Nov 08 23:09:46 <don-o> as a lurker, i would have thought the basic phone functionality would be stable by now.
Nov 08 23:09:49 <Zoolooc> it's just that what I wanted to point out
Nov 08 23:10:06 <ozarka> Zoolooc:  You would have bought it if it had Windows Mobile?
Nov 08 23:10:28 <don-o> Zoolooc: it has "some" working OS -> linux
Nov 08 23:10:32 <mjr> A working OS has been there for a while now. Working mobile framework and apps? Now that's a work in progress :]
Nov 08 23:10:44 <Zoolooc> if it was a pone almost like any other, but with available documentation in order to have enthousiast devs access needed information to write software
Nov 08 23:11:05 <PITABoy> why dont you take a phone/pda that is already working and make openmoko just a software project instead of a hardware and software prohect
Nov 08 23:11:11 <PITABoy> project*
Nov 08 23:11:31 <don-o> PITABoy: because the people who make that hardware arent likely to play along and you need their help
Nov 08 23:11:38 <mjr> Zoolooc, so it's not for you yet. That doesn't mean they shouldn't sell it to us.
Nov 08 23:11:50 <Zoolooc> ok, I judged after the affirmation "it does not do anything useful yet", or something like that
Nov 08 23:12:00 <abraxa_> PITABoy: Such hardware isn't guaranteed to be as open as possible - which is what OM is all about
Nov 08 23:12:44 <flexd> hmmm
Nov 08 23:12:54 <Zoolooc> didn't say thy shouldn't sell it to you, I complained that this development model seems far too ineffective, it seems to me that it does not attract enough devs
Nov 08 23:13:02 <flexd> what are the odds of oe booting flawlessly on my ipaq 3360 (which is already running opie) ^^ ?
Nov 08 23:13:47 <don-o> Zoolooc: there are 299 nicks in this channel.
Nov 08 23:14:03 <don-o> Zoolooc: its one of the larger projects on freenode
Nov 08 23:14:44 <Zoolooc> ok, and for how long was the openmoko phone announced on the site, with screenshots and bells and whistles?
Nov 08 23:14:58 <PITABoy> that is because people can put openmoko on other phones too
Nov 08 23:15:12 <don-o> Zoolooc: we all agree the release process was late and not communicated well.
Nov 08 23:15:13 <PITABoy> not everyone is here just for the neo
Nov 08 23:16:04 <don-o> i wish mokoninja would post some more youtube videos.
Nov 08 23:16:23 <Zoolooc> sure, not everyone, hence not everyone bought it , see? :-)
Nov 08 23:16:33 <mjr> PITABoy, you're welcome to be here for non-neo hardware, but you shouldn't wonder if most of us want to support hardware designed to run GNU/Linux from the get-go, with the manufacturer's support...
Nov 08 23:16:46 <jaebird> don-o: you should add EU-Triband to the topic
Nov 08 23:16:49 <ozarka> A lot more people tried to buy the Neo than could get it.
Nov 08 23:17:13 <don-o> jaebird: its an open topic. it has my name on it because i accidentally reset it when i was trying to read it :)
Nov 08 23:17:23 <jaebird> heh
Nov 08 23:17:25 <ozarka> I bet if you put one up on eBay you could sell it for full price.
Nov 08 23:17:30 <PITABoy> i was just wondering because other people were complaining about how they dont like the neo
Nov 08 23:17:51 <jaebird> i've been weeping for days now :(
Nov 08 23:18:02 <don-o> jaebird: i hope people dont think the sarcasm in the topic are my words.
Nov 08 23:18:08 <PITABoy> why would someone buy one off of ebay used for full price when they could get a new one for the same???
Nov 08 23:18:34 <ozarka> Because they're sold out.
Nov 08 23:18:34 <Zoolooc> oh, the topic, now I see
Nov 08 23:18:47 <don-o> PITABoy: because buying one from FIC is a total crap-shoot.
Nov 08 23:18:50 <Zoolooc> well, my kaiser looks better than the neo
Nov 08 23:18:56 * Zoolooc ducks
Nov 08 23:19:07 <don-o> PITABoy: off ebay you're likely to actually receive the phone, which is a big step up from the openmoko.com order page
Nov 08 23:19:12 <PITABoy> don-o what is a crap-shoot about it
Nov 08 23:19:19 <jaebird> don-o: I dare you to say andr*id :)
Nov 08 23:19:34 <don-o> PITABoy: look at the communitiy mailing list in August
Nov 08 23:19:48 <PITABoy> so you are saying that FIC doesnt send out orders?
Nov 08 23:19:48 <mjr> PITABoy, demand far exceeds supply
Nov 08 23:19:58 <jaebird> they have to make them first
Nov 08 23:20:02 <ozarka> Have you seen the screenshots for the first Android application?
Nov 08 23:20:02 <PITABoy> oh
Nov 08 23:20:05 <mjr> (also, shipping is muchos expensive to non-US)
Nov 08 23:20:17 <PITABoy> no what is the Android app
Nov 08 23:20:22 * jaebird pwns ozarka
Nov 08 23:20:28 <Zoolooc> fuck andr*id, it's the kernel support which is important, right PITABoy?
Nov 08 23:20:57 <ozarka> http://valleywag.com/tech/exclusive/screenshots-of-first-googlephone-app-320226.php
Nov 08 23:21:10 <PITABoy> yes we need kernel support
Nov 08 23:21:16 <PITABoy> software comes later
Nov 08 23:21:25 <jaebird> forget ebay: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo
Nov 08 23:21:29 <Zoolooc> and now it seems much closer
Nov 08 23:21:37 <ozarka> But no one's selling.
Nov 08 23:21:43 <ozarka> Three buyers and no sellers.
Nov 08 23:21:52 <jaebird> sure...soon enough
Nov 08 23:22:07 <jaebird> I know of 2 that may be put up
Nov 08 23:22:09 <jaebird> :)
Nov 08 23:22:15 <ozarka> jaebird:  Are you going to sell yours?
Nov 08 23:22:40 <jaebird> still in negotiations...with myself, hence the weeping
Nov 08 23:22:45 <don-o> ha
Nov 08 23:22:48 <PITABoy> Android application is for the gphone
Nov 08 23:23:04 <PITABoy> Does it run linux I heard that it runs java
Nov 08 23:23:15 <ozarka> No one knows what it runs.
Nov 08 23:23:17 * flexd glares at the topic
Nov 08 23:23:32 <PITABoy> oh
Nov 08 23:23:33 <ozarka> There are google people in #android if you want to go ask them.
Nov 08 23:24:25 * jaebird dares anyone to streak through #android, with "OpenMoko pwns Andr*id" :)
Nov 08 23:24:28 <don-o> ozarka: heh. i didnt even think to check for that channel. thx.
Nov 08 23:24:39 <don-o> jaebird: lol.
Nov 08 23:24:52 <PITABoy> np jaebird
Nov 08 23:24:59 <jaebird> :)
Nov 08 23:25:10 <jaebird> PITA...i get it
Nov 08 23:25:37 <don-o> oh i though it was the bread
Nov 08 23:25:40 <flexd> I feel stupid now
Nov 08 23:25:41 * PITABoy just did it
Nov 08 23:25:42 <ozarka> PITABoy:  You are a very accomplished troll.
Nov 08 23:26:01 <ozarka> I think you're go them all worked up over there.  :-)
Nov 08 23:26:11 <flexd> How do i change the default window manager in debian? >_> (thought i'd try enlightenment since everyone says it's great since raster joined)
Nov 08 23:26:16 <flexd> I somehow forgot how :
Nov 08 23:27:12 <flexd> (feel free to mock me, it's pretty basic >_>)
Nov 08 23:27:13 <PITABoy> check out what I just posted in the #android forums
Nov 08 23:27:41 <jaebird> PITABoy: no response...is it dead over there?
Nov 08 23:27:53 <don-o> they know better than to respond
Nov 08 23:27:57 <ozarka> It's pretty dead.
Nov 08 23:28:38 <ozarka> There are google people there, but they just tell you they can't say anything until monday.
Nov 08 23:29:05 <PITABoy> they said "I dont see the point
Nov 08 23:29:07 <PITABoy> "
Nov 08 23:29:43 <ozarka> So has anyone got so far as to write a hello world app for OM?
Nov 08 23:30:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1001 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 08 23:30:01 <cdbot2> * * Suggestion: Remove Bitstream Vera fonts from the default image
Nov 08 23:30:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1001
Nov 08 23:30:20 <ozarka> I got MokoMakeFile to fully compile, and I was going to follow the instructions for making and installing an app,
Nov 08 23:30:32 <ozarka> but my build image wasn't very functional.
Nov 08 23:30:47 <ozarka> I would rather just write an app and install it onto one of the existing images.
Nov 08 23:30:53 <flexd> What font does the wiki use?
Nov 08 23:30:55 <ozarka> But I don't see instructions for doing that.
Nov 08 23:30:59 <flexd> It just looks amazing o_0
Nov 08 23:32:53 <abraxa_> ozarka: I personally just prefer starting with autotools and a .bb recipe, though I can see that the learning curve is a little too steep if you only want to write an application.
Nov 08 23:33:14 <abraxa_> In the end however it pays off if you want to get it included in OE anyway.
Nov 08 23:33:43 <ozarka> The problem is the image I end up with isn't useful, so I never get past building the OS.
Nov 08 23:34:18 <ozarka> If I did write an app with autotools and bb, how would I install it on the device?
Nov 08 23:34:30 <abraxa_> I don't flash my own image either (though I could of course), I just use it to build the app
Nov 08 23:34:45 <abraxa_> You could use the ipkg mechanism, for example
Nov 08 23:35:31 <ozarka> Can you make the app show up in the OM menu?
Nov 08 23:36:14 <abraxa_> Well yes, I wote the media player that way
Nov 08 23:36:27 <abraxa_> (still am, actually)
Nov 08 23:36:56 <ozarka> Can you recommend a wiki page to get started?
Nov 08 23:37:24 <ozarka> I was going to follow this one:
Nov 08 23:37:25 <ozarka> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course
Nov 08 23:38:02 <ozarka> But I thought that would build my app into the image.
Nov 08 23:38:16 <abraxa_> It does, though your local one
Nov 08 23:39:11 <abraxa_> I guess I can see tomorrow if the wiki article works, but no guarantee
Nov 08 23:39:56 <ozarka> Thanks.  I don't want you to go out of your way.
Nov 08 23:40:14 <ozarka> I'm just trying to get some advice from people who have done it already.
Nov 08 23:40:35 <mmontour> ozarka: have you read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application ?
Nov 08 23:41:48 <ozarka> I've read that.  But I thought the crash course looked more comprehensive.
Nov 08 23:42:10 <ozarka> Anyway, I'll try it out tomorrow and see where I get.
Nov 08 23:42:22 <ozarka> Thanks for the advice.
Nov 09 00:35:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1002 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 09 00:35:01 <cdbot2> * * ipkg default feeds don't include neo1973 arch
Nov 09 00:35:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1002
Nov 09 00:57:06 <mjr> incidentally, can one get the GSM network time off the TI chip? (Yeah I know we can get time from GPS eventually...)
Nov 09 01:07:52 <Writchie> mjr: AFAIK you cannot get real time from GSM network except through gprs connection to an NTP server - but this may have changed. 
Nov 09 01:08:38 <mjr> I think there's some extension thingie; at least some phones apparently do get it from there. Oh, and a nokia guy told me.
Nov 09 01:08:59 <mjr> 'course, what do they know
Nov 09 01:09:48 <mjr> DNAfanboy, you're funny 'cause there's a Finnish GSM operator called DNA Finland
Nov 09 01:10:01 <Writchie> some chipset get it through internal gps. 
Nov 09 01:10:10 <DNAfanboy> mjr: lol
Nov 09 01:13:25 <Tronic> There are also DNA shops (DNA-kauppa) everywhere. Wonder what you can buy from one.
Nov 09 01:13:47 <mjr> a good fuck
Nov 09 01:24:54 <Writchie> mjr: you can get time by sending an SMS to yourself with status report request
Nov 09 01:41:01 <Writchie> mjr: jeeez - Microsoft holds a bullshit patent on setting the clock from an SMS message - unbelievable how innovative. 
Nov 09 01:41:57 * mjr laughcries
Nov 09 01:47:26 <PITABoy> mjr what up
Nov 09 01:53:51 <mjr> my neo's media player again, after reflash
Nov 09 01:57:17 <PITABoy> I guess that you dont need it or use it on the neo but do you know anything about where I can get some information about haret
Nov 09 01:57:44 <PITABoy> other than the handhelds moinwiki
Nov 09 02:10:47 * xzcvczx is surprised no one has a patent on setting time from gps
Nov 09 02:12:24 <Writchie> microsoft probably has on on setting time from digit of anthropomorphic biological organism - just not issued yet. 
Nov 09 02:12:25 <xzcvczx> Writchie: wouldnt trust time through sms anyways as texts can sometimes get held up
Nov 09 02:12:47 <Writchie> not likely in the status report message
Nov 09 02:14:22 <Writchie> since patent office is about 9 years behind, we haven't yet seen the xp automatic BSOD coverup patent. 
Nov 09 02:15:32 <xzcvczx> Writchie: what the reboot so quickly you cant read the fucking bsod to determine wtf is wrong?
Nov 09 02:16:34 <Writchie> you never know it happened? machine is just mysterious rebooted so you don't have to look at the BSOD - Bluescreen, what bluescreen!
Nov 09 02:16:58 <xzcvczx> unless your using it at the time
Nov 09 02:17:32 <Writchie> lately i see black screens and hangups more often than bluescreens anyway. 
Nov 09 02:18:24 <Writchie> black screen is great - bang you're dead. 
Nov 09 02:19:02 <xzcvczx> well i am getting an annoying thing on my tablet in linux.... when using the nvidia driver i startx and it just blanks the screen and does nothing..... ctrl-alt-f1 killall startx, startx and everything works fine
Nov 09 02:19:59 <PITABoy> dont use startx use X
Nov 09 02:20:03 <Writchie> i've seen similar things with ATI cards - I traced it to mode settings setting a mode the monitor didn't like
Nov 09 02:20:38 <xzcvczx> dont have any mode settings seet
Nov 09 02:20:39 <xzcvczx> set
Nov 09 02:21:03 <xzcvczx> PITABoy: well most the time just using /etc/init.d/xdm start now anyway but it does the same
Nov 09 02:21:20 <PITABoy> true
Nov 09 02:21:39 <PITABoy> that is what i do when there is an x crash /etc/init.d/xdm restart
Nov 09 02:21:55 <Writchie> does your x log look normal but just no display?
Nov 09 02:23:06 <xzcvczx> Writchie: the only thing that sticks out when i diff the old and the normal is the old it tries to load a crt profile and f's out
Nov 09 02:27:45 <xzcvczx> http://rafb.net/p/Ukqwmf76.html
Nov 09 02:27:55 * Kero is slowly settling in the USA. can feel openmoko hacking time coming soon.
Nov 09 02:28:08 <ewon> Kero: where are yo in the US?
Nov 09 02:28:10 <Kero> ANything happened in the last 8, 9 days?
Nov 09 02:28:23 <Kero> ewon: NY
Nov 09 02:28:31 <xzcvczx> Kero: a gps gui got released :P
Nov 09 02:28:56 <PITABoy> Kero are you not fromt the USA
Nov 09 02:29:17 <xzcvczx> Kero: oh and i offer you my condolences
Nov 09 02:29:43 <Writchie> why kind of tablet?
Nov 09 02:29:49 <xzcvczx> tc1000
Nov 09 02:30:07 * Kero is Dutch
Nov 09 02:30:24 <PITABoy> oh 
Nov 09 02:33:08 * Kero saw a huge discussion about no-850.
Nov 09 02:35:01 <Henryk> xzcvczx: gps gui?
Nov 09 02:35:09 <Kero> old phone is triband, does not have 850 either.
Nov 09 02:36:39 <xzcvczx> Henryk: yeah
Nov 09 02:36:47 <xzcvczx> no binary yet but there is a gui
Nov 09 02:37:01 <xzcvczx> that works with the binary 
Nov 09 02:37:21 <Henryk> xzcvczx: oh, where? must have missed that.
Nov 09 02:37:32 <xzcvczx> if you have scaredy cat ipkg update; ipkg install openmoko-agpsui2
Nov 09 02:39:55 <xzcvczx> or if you would like to see sourcecode its in svn/developers/olv/
Nov 09 02:41:24 <Henryk> xzcvczx: hmm, no recipe in the tree yet, it seems?
Nov 09 02:41:33 <xzcvczx> Henryk: not in the tree no
Nov 09 02:41:37 <xzcvczx> but there is one available
Nov 09 02:41:46 <xzcvczx> ummmm cant remember who posted it
Nov 09 02:41:49 <Henryk> ok, then I'll just wait
Nov 09 02:42:07 <xzcvczx> wget http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb
Nov 09 02:42:11 <xzcvczx> if you want a recipe
Nov 09 02:42:17 <xzcvczx> thanks to abraxa i assume
Nov 09 02:44:10 <xzcvczx> Henryk: i doubt it will make it to the tree until the binary is released at least
Nov 09 02:44:19 <Henryk> hmm, ok
Nov 09 02:47:35 <Henryk> xzcvczx: ok, thanks, now building
Nov 09 02:47:54 <xzcvczx> dont thank me thank abraxa
Nov 09 02:53:26 <Henryk> huh, my build host is suddenly acting up. so, well, i got other things to do anyways ...
Nov 09 02:54:31 <xzcvczx> :) sweet get my rig next week
Nov 09 02:59:25 <unknown_lamer> hello android is cool
Nov 09 02:59:38 <unknown_lamer> why in this one song it destroys all of mankind
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 09 02:59:57 2007