**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 10 02:59:56 2007
Nov 10 03:43:41 <niklauz> hi all
Nov 10 03:44:07 <niklauz> any predictions of openmoko's response to android?
Nov 10 03:56:11 <niklauz> where is everybody?
Nov 10 03:59:36 <zmedico> everybody moves to the secret channel whenever android trolls come along
Nov 10 04:00:12 <niklauz> i'm really not trolling, just curious. it's a essential conversation to have don't you think?
Nov 10 04:02:06 <niklauz> this is the quietest i've seen the channel in months though
Nov 10 04:04:47 <zmedico> the usual response is that it's difficult speculate until after the android sdk is actually released
Nov 10 04:11:39 <niklauz> thats reasonable, the early preview is on monday though i think
Nov 10 04:12:26 <niklauz> i was trying to find more information about the licensing but only saw mentions of different stuff
Nov 10 04:13:24 <niklauz> about the apache public lisence
Nov 10 04:14:20 <niklauz> i guess i'm just thinking out loud at this point, but shouldn't the apache public license and the gpl be compatible? 
Nov 10 04:16:21 <niklauz> i guess i'll read up on it, it could be a huge benefit to openmoko though
Nov 10 04:16:29 <niklauz> anywho..
Nov 10 04:36:32 <balrog-kun> yes, openmoko already benefits from tons of free software and it can also benefit from android
Nov 10 04:36:52 <balrog-kun> android also benefits from tons of free software and may benefit from openmoko
Nov 10 04:37:11 <balrog-kun> the faq mentions that i think
Nov 10 04:41:39 <xzcvczxx> balrog-kun: are you the one who put all the AT%EM stuff on the wiki?
Nov 10 04:45:15 <balrog-kun> xzcvczxx: yup
Nov 10 05:01:46 <rwhitby> morning
Nov 10 05:07:34 <ljp> hi
Nov 10 05:13:15 <rwhitby> ljp: seen http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/pipermail/linux-arm-kernel/2007-November/043241.html: "the vast majority of the devices in the 88-D0 space are peripherals specific to the MSM7K SOC and not likely to be useful elsewhere, excepting only the GPU (which ends up being a userspace library anyway, due to unfortunate license issues)." ?
Nov 10 05:14:05 <rwhitby> that says binary graphics drivers for android to me ...
Nov 10 05:19:15 <ljp> :) probably so. and alot of other closed source associated with it
Nov 10 06:27:12 <rwhitby> Hmm - only one person wanting to sell their phone on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo
Nov 10 06:27:34 <rwhitby> If I was OpenMoko, I wouldn't consider 1 out of a couple of thousand devices to be a real problem then ;-)
Nov 10 06:29:59 <nelson> josch: hi.
Nov 10 06:30:23 <nelson> josch: I've verified that my bluetooth HID keyboard works with the GTA01
Nov 10 06:30:40 <nelson> josch: I had to use the GUI to turn on the bluetooth radio power.
Nov 10 06:31:06 <nelson> josch: and I just ran "hidd --search" and the blinking blue light went out and my keyboard started working.
Nov 10 06:31:37 <nelson> rwhitby: I'll sell mine after I get gnash working on it.
Nov 10 07:40:38 <josch> nelson, hi! thanks for your help!! me and pbeck tried for hours to get it working - good to know that there is the possibility that it could be so simple :-)
Nov 10 07:54:32 <josch> nelson, maybe you can help by adding your keyboard model to the list here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#HID_.28Human_Input_Device.29
Nov 10 07:58:43 <Henryk> hmm, I always thought of lists of working bluetooth devices as completely useless (at least as long as there's no windows in the equation). If anything you should have a list of non-working devices. (Which for such classes as HID should be empty)
Nov 10 08:00:46 <josch> Henryk, put my keyboard as the first on this list :-/
Nov 10 08:10:07 <Henryk> josch: what make and model is it? and you *did* enable pairing mode on the keyboard before trying, didn't you? (most devices will leave this mode after 60s to 3mins, hcitool scan might not work on the first try and also return cached information for some time after that)
Nov 10 08:13:16 <josch> Henryk, its a hama keyboard (think they just relabeled another one - looks the same).
Nov 10 08:13:34 <josch> Henryk, the only button is the on/off button
Nov 10 08:13:42 <Henryk> then RTFM :)
Nov 10 08:14:27 <josch> Henryk, the manual sais, that the connection eith windows ce, palm and symbian is nothing more than switching on and connecting
Nov 10 08:15:27 <josch> http://www.rabenfrost.net/openmoko/btkeyboard.tar.bz2
Nov 10 08:15:43 <josch> this is the complete cd that came with it (3,5MB)
Nov 10 08:16:12 <josch> it's my first bluetooth device but everywhere I only see something like scanning and connecting - finish
Nov 10 08:16:58 <josch> me and pbeck tried thousands of methods last night and I would be really glad if someone could give us some tips
Nov 10 08:17:26 <Henryk> josch: the file is damaged
Nov 10 08:19:42 <josch> Henryk, fixed
Nov 10 08:19:58 <Henryk> ah, better
Nov 10 08:25:16 <Henryk> josch: ok, switch the keyboard on. does the LED alternately light up orange and green?
Nov 10 08:25:56 <josch> Henryk, as the manual sais it first lights orange for 2secs and then blinks green every sec
Nov 10 08:26:37 <Henryk> good, then it should be visible in hcitool scan. (maybe try several times, wait 15secs between each try)
Nov 10 08:26:58 <josch> it is always vidoble by hcitool scan
Nov 10 08:27:04 <josch> visble
Nov 10 08:29:13 <Henryk> ah, you didn't say that before :)
Nov 10 08:29:43 <Henryk> look up its address and do an    sdptool browse ADDRESS   (replace ADDRESS with the address)
Nov 10 08:30:03 <josch> sry - the problem is, when i do hidd --connect xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx or hidd --search I get a "Can't connect: Connection refused (111)"
Nov 10 08:30:25 <josch> yesterday we also tried sdptool browse
Nov 10 08:30:46 <Henryk> do you have the output in pastebin?
Nov 10 08:30:55 <josch> ther is no output ecept
Nov 10 08:30:56 <josch> Browsing 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12 ...
Nov 10 08:31:05 <josch> then it returns
Nov 10 08:31:52 <josch> with my phone I get a long output but with this keyboard - nothing
Nov 10 08:33:58 <Henryk> ok, no SDP, that's kind of stupid on the side of the manufacturer
Nov 10 08:37:44 <Henryk> josch: get http://www.betaversion.net/btdsd/download/bt_audit-0.1.tar.gz and try psm_scan on the keyboard
Nov 10 08:38:14 <josch> Henryk, thx! will try that!
Nov 10 08:38:55 <Henryk> (a psm is similar in concept to a port in tcp/ip, so that tool is basically a port scanner)
Nov 10 08:39:07 <josch> btw: there seem to be many keyboards of this type
Nov 10 08:39:12 <josch> for example this http://www.tangshop.com/dell-axim-x30-accessories-universal-bluetooth-pda-keyboard-smartphone-keyboard.html
Nov 10 08:39:22 <josch> looks EXACTLY in EVERY WAY like mine
Nov 10 08:42:02 <Henryk> hmm, http://www.heise.de/mobil/bluetooth/db/?a=detail&suche_alt=YTozOntzOjEwOiJoZXJzdGVsbGVyIjtzOjQ6IkhhbWEiO3M6MTM6ImdlcmFldGVrbGFzc2UiO3M6MzoiYWxsIjtzOjY6InByb2ZpbCI7czozOiJhbGwiO30=&detail=634 claims it's HID
Nov 10 08:42:18 <josch> jepp - already saw this
Nov 10 08:42:29 <josch> didn't know your are german
Nov 10 08:43:20 <roh> well.. i think we have more german speaking people around than it seems ;)
Nov 10 08:43:58 <josch> roh, already figured it :-)
Nov 10 08:45:54 <josch> status: L2CAP_CS_NO_INFO     result: L2CAP_CR_BAD_PSM
Nov 10 08:46:18 <Henryk> which psm?
Nov 10 08:46:21 <josch> Henryk, this is the output of psm_scan
Nov 10 08:46:44 <josch> how do I use it? i did only  sudo ./psm_scan 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12
Nov 10 08:47:01 <Henryk> ah, maybe add an -o
Nov 10 08:47:01 <josch> shall it run thorugh all psms?
Nov 10 08:47:07 <josch> ah now I understand
Nov 10 08:47:17 <josch> i was worried that the output stays the same
Nov 10 08:47:37 <josch> what output do you need
Nov 10 08:47:38 <josch> ?
Nov 10 08:47:43 <Henryk> (my bad, I got it from http://www.mulliner.org/bluetooth/hidattack.php and forgot to mention the -o option)
Nov 10 08:47:54 <Henryk> josch: with -o? all of it. pastebin.ca
Nov 10 08:48:18 <josch> so I do sudo ./psm_scan 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12 -o and paste everything on pastebin
Nov 10 08:48:36 <Henryk> right
Nov 10 08:57:57 <josch> Henryk, http://pastebin.ca/768097
Nov 10 09:01:17 <josch> Henryk, did l2ping afterwards to make sure the device was online
Nov 10 09:03:51 <Henryk> josch: hmm, interesting. switch the keyboard off and on again to make sure it's reset, then try hidd --nosdp --connect 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12
Nov 10 09:04:37 <josch> did it with sudo to be sure
Nov 10 09:04:38 <josch> Can't open input device: No such file or directory (2)
Nov 10 09:06:54 <Henryk> d'oh
Nov 10 09:06:57 <Henryk> modprobe uinput
Nov 10 09:07:40 <josch> Connected to 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12 on channel 1
Nov 10 09:07:43 <josch> wtf???
Nov 10 09:07:48 <josch> it works!!!!
Nov 10 09:07:52 <josch> YOU ARE MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 10 09:08:07 <roh> :)
Nov 10 09:08:23 <josch> uinput... argh!
Nov 10 09:08:31 <josch> why didn't I read about this?
Nov 10 09:08:32 <Henryk> Notice for the next time: Read error message. Carefully.
Nov 10 09:08:46 <josch> Henryk, can you point me to it?
Nov 10 09:09:34 <roh> now please document that in the wiki ;)
Nov 10 09:09:36 <josch> isdvshjjjjjuuuuiiiioooppp
Nov 10 09:09:41 <josch> ack sry
Nov 10 09:09:51 <josch> roh, will do that for sure!
Nov 10 09:10:07 <roh> thanks
Nov 10 09:10:29 <Henryk> josch: point to what?
Nov 10 09:10:47 <josch> how I could find out about uinput myself
Nov 10 09:11:20 <josch> you said, that I didn't read the error messages carefully enough
Nov 10 09:11:34 <josch> so can you please tell me where my error was? :-)
Nov 10 09:11:45 <Henryk> no that was me who didn't read it right right away
Nov 10 09:12:20 <josch> whet secifically?
Nov 10 09:12:29 <josch> s/whet/what/
Nov 10 09:12:29 <apt> josch meant: what secifically?
Nov 10 09:12:45 <Henryk> "No such file or directory" is not "Connection refused" and would be a rather strange error code. I then googled up the source (e.g. https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-utils/tags/bluez-utils-3.10-0osso1/input/device.c) where it's obvious that "Can't open input device" can only be a missing uinput module
Nov 10 09:13:01 <josch> wow
Nov 10 09:13:05 <josch> thx!!
Nov 10 09:13:17 <josch> will document it after I'm fined testing
Nov 10 09:13:30 <josch> there seems to be a strange problem with some keycodes but
Nov 10 09:13:33 <josch> I can fix it
Nov 10 09:14:07 <josch> I also found out which model my keyboard really is - its from freedominput.com and seems to be rebranded 1000 times
Nov 10 09:14:21 <Henryk> josch: yes, I found that too
Nov 10 09:15:30 <roh> too bad pavarotti is dead... i just got that i would need him to sing me a 'FNORD' to make a soundset from it.
Nov 10 09:15:42 <josch> ^^
Nov 10 09:24:37 <josch> okay... it seems that the keys ENTER, Ö, K, N, M and , just do not give any keycodes back
Nov 10 09:25:15 <josch> :-/
Nov 10 09:25:17 <Henryk> use hcidump to see whether there's BT traffic associated with pressing the keys
Nov 10 09:25:34 <Henryk> anyway, need sleep. 'night
Nov 10 09:25:34 <josch> Henryk, thx - will try that
Nov 10 09:25:42 <josch> Henryk, thx and night!
Nov 10 09:28:56 <josch> okay they not even send something
Nov 10 09:36:30 <wibbit> Good morning all
Nov 10 10:19:41 <PBeck> hi
Nov 10 10:20:58 <Sup3rkiddo> hi
Nov 10 10:21:16 <doc|home> hi
Nov 10 10:26:26 <torpor> yo
Nov 10 10:26:33 <torpor> sup?
Nov 10 10:26:53 <Sup3rkiddo> ceiling
Nov 10 10:28:30 <josch> ceiling mickeyl is watching you
Nov 10 10:29:06 <torpor> anything new going on?
Nov 10 10:29:32 <Sup3rkiddo> i am worried about my safety
Nov 10 10:29:54 <CM> Sup3rkiddo: Have you kidnapped an android?
Nov 10 10:30:18 <Sup3rkiddo> hehe
Nov 10 10:33:47 <torpor> godamnit can we please autokick anyone who mentions android in this channel?
Nov 10 10:35:31 <fgau> ANDROID
Nov 10 10:35:58 <CM> torpor: How's it going with that audio project you're working on?
Nov 10 10:36:16 <torpor> CM: okay, i've been hacking mostly around with pulseaudio this week, getting familiar with it.
Nov 10 10:36:30 <torpor> i've got a little drumbox toy working, but it sorta sucks and i want to re-do the interface for it.
Nov 10 10:36:48 <torpor> i really wish the neo had multi-touch!
Nov 10 10:36:54 <CM> *nod*
Nov 10 10:36:54 * torpor is looking for a cheap multitouch platform ..
Nov 10 10:37:04 <CM> Could do so much cool stuff if it had
Nov 10 10:37:22 <torpor> i also wanna finish the bluetooth panel that i started last week .. maybe i'll do that today.
Nov 10 10:39:26 <guaqua> what does multitouch really mean?
Nov 10 10:39:44 <torpor> you can hold down more than one button on screen at the time.
Nov 10 10:39:53 <torpor> for music its necessary
Nov 10 10:40:01 <guaqua> and how does the current screen tell where the pressure is?
Nov 10 10:40:25 <torpor> just a single point
Nov 10 10:40:30 <guaqua> just that it's pressed and the location?
Nov 10 10:40:31 <guaqua> okay
Nov 10 10:41:10 <guaqua> does it change once it's pressed?
Nov 10 10:41:19 <guaqua> and how easily does it change?
Nov 10 10:42:11 <guaqua> damn libusb-native
Nov 10 10:42:26 <guaqua> that's where my openmokobuild fails
Nov 10 12:33:13 <hhf423> moin
Nov 10 12:37:08 * hhf423 flashes the celtune monster image. 82 megs to go
Nov 10 12:41:02 <hhf423> does anyone know where this is? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/7b2ce1ab51fd39bd3e0f9e99c5fd7830.png
Nov 10 12:41:36 <torpor> hhf423: its in ScaredyCat's repo
Nov 10 12:41:53 <hhf423> ah, whats it called?
Nov 10 12:42:19 <torpor> openmoko-agpsui2_0.1.0+svnr3372-r0_armv4t.ipk  
Nov 10 12:42:31 <torpor> but you'll need to get gpsd working yourself .. i tried yesterday but got nowhere.
Nov 10 12:43:08 <hhf423> ah, doh :-)
Nov 10 12:44:07 <hhf423> oh, error during download?
Nov 10 12:45:51 <hhf423> hmm, thats funny
Nov 10 12:46:24 <hhf423> I flash a large image and close to the end the neo start scrolling text over the display and dfu-util stops with error -84
Nov 10 12:47:10 <CM> You said it's 82 megs?
Nov 10 12:47:16 <hhf423> yes
Nov 10 12:47:29 <CM> The neo only have 64 mb flash
Nov 10 12:47:44 <CM> Or are you copying to the sd card?
Nov 10 12:47:54 <hhf423> ah, I forgot that, I had 128 in my mind
Nov 10 12:47:59 <CM> :)
Nov 10 12:48:12 <CM> The 256mb in GTA02 will be nice
Nov 10 12:48:16 <hhf423> so if I want that thing, it needs to go to the sd card
Nov 10 12:48:17 <CM> 128 is the ram
Nov 10 12:48:21 <CM> Yes
Nov 10 12:48:24 <hhf423> k
Nov 10 12:48:27 <torpor> i'm sure we'll fill it.
Nov 10 12:48:42 <CM> But I don't know how or even if you can boot from the sd card like that
Nov 10 12:48:45 <hhf423> yeah, 256 is not that much :-)
Nov 10 12:49:09 <hhf423> well, the 82mb is rootfs, not kernel
Nov 10 12:49:21 <hhf423> maybe a change in uboot parameters
Nov 10 12:49:27 <hhf423> required
Nov 10 12:49:45 <CM> Probably, and I'm sure someone has done some work on that
Nov 10 12:49:54 <CM> Sunny and nice here, time to go out
Nov 10 12:50:01 * CM takes a walk
Nov 10 12:50:22 * hhf423 visited sweden two weeks ago
Nov 10 13:01:18 <SpeedEvil> From Embeddedlinux
Nov 10 13:01:18 <SpeedEvil> Jump to: navigation, search
Nov 10 13:01:18 <SpeedEvil> [edit]
Nov 10 13:07:48 <hhf423> ??
Nov 10 13:13:51 <hhf423> hmm, the latest qtopia looks good. I wonder what the battery life is?
Nov 10 13:15:41 <hhf423> seem that we're getting to the part where the neo can be used as a phone
Nov 10 13:21:52 <guerby> hi, is there a particular firmware supporting voice call/receive and GPRS (GTA01)?
Nov 10 13:28:42 <hhf423> guerby: I do not get the question
Nov 10 13:29:04 <hhf423> you can do voice calls and gprs with the latest openmoko images
Nov 10 13:29:28 <hhf423> you might want to add "SettingsGUI" to have GUI support for GPRS
Nov 10 13:29:49 <hhf423> but other than that you can already call and surf with the phone
Nov 10 13:30:33 <hhf423> of course, there is no 100% stability yet, gsmd seems to be better than a few weeks ago, but not fully reliable yet
Nov 10 13:32:06 <guerby> hhf423, thx, do you have an URL for the latest images?
Nov 10 13:33:35 <hhf423> guerby: all the repositories are here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories
Nov 10 13:34:22 <hhf423> I would go here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D   for the latest kernel and rootfs or
Nov 10 13:34:38 <hhf423> here: http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D
Nov 10 13:34:56 <hhf423> celtune has the most up to date stuff as far as I can see
Nov 10 13:35:26 <hhf423> ok, gotta go now, see you all later
Nov 10 13:39:31 <guerby> hhf423, thx again and good weekend
Nov 10 14:23:40 <torpor> so how are we supposed to use the celtune monster image?  is that for booting off disk or something?  (SD)
Nov 10 14:27:04 <fgau> torpor: only on sdcard http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD#Installing_without_removing_your_SD_card
Nov 10 14:28:27 <torpor> so is this a pretty good dist then or whats the main benefit to the celtune image?  anyone know?
Nov 10 14:34:42 <abraxa__> torpor: No idea
Nov 10 14:35:04 <guerby> hmmm I get "Dialer: Error setting antenna power" box at boot
Nov 10 14:36:08 <guerby> with 20071105-fic-gta01, any idea?
Nov 10 14:55:47 <torpor> anyone know why all the app menu categories got changed and there's hardly anything else in the app list in recent builds?
Nov 10 15:16:47 <abraxa_> torpor: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=985
Nov 10 15:17:08 <abraxa_> Seems related to that
Nov 10 15:24:51 <torpor> abraxa_: right, thanks.  will wait for the fix to trickle through.
Nov 10 15:47:55 <eonj> svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/matchbox/!svn/vcc/default'
Nov 10 15:47:55 <eonj> svn: Cannot replace a directory from within
Nov 10 15:47:55 <eonj> make: *** [update-openmoko] Error 1
Nov 10 15:47:58 <eonj> whats that supposed to mean?
Nov 10 15:48:33 <mickeyl> means someone broke svn layout
Nov 10 15:48:41 <mickeyl> usually, just remove the svn directory and let it recheckout
Nov 10 15:48:44 <mickeyl> fixes it
Nov 10 15:51:45 <LetoTo> so what's the status on the phones these days?
Nov 10 15:52:03 <LetoTo> "almost ready to ship"?
Nov 10 16:00:13 <eonj> do i also need to update my makefile often?
Nov 10 16:02:21 <Motiv> I have a brand new makefile environment. dfu-util in the build path is giving me an error: No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs"  Has there been a change?
Nov 10 16:03:20 <XorA|gone> Motiv: no, but you get that at random if USB is having a bad day, or you use a hub
Nov 10 16:03:45 <torpor> eonj: i make update-makefile at least once a day .. 
Nov 10 16:04:10 <eonj> torpor: i see, that means i'll have to remove uboot each time too >< since i'm emulating on x86
Nov 10 16:04:37 <Motiv> XorA|gone: Thanks, I'll try a couple things then
Nov 10 16:08:02 <abraxa_> eonj: The makefile doesn't change *that* often, though
Nov 10 16:08:48 <abraxa_> Read: I update mine rougly every two weeks and never had a problem
Nov 10 16:10:01 <eonj> ugh i deleted my /home/moko/openmoko directory and make-update doesn't work lol
Nov 10 16:12:42 <abraxa_> make-update?
Nov 10 16:12:47 <mwester> eonj:  hopefully you still have your "downloads" directory, that's painful to re-fetch.
Nov 10 16:12:59 <eonj> i did make setup-openmoko-developer and its re-checking out the svn for openmoko
Nov 10 16:13:05 <eonj> when its done ill try make update
Nov 10 16:13:44 * CM runs "make update-makefile;make setup update;make all" every day out of laziness
Nov 10 16:15:24 <eonj> thing is, i'm on a VM, and would rather build as little as possible
Nov 10 16:15:44 <CM> That doesn't rebuild anything that's not updated
Nov 10 16:15:51 <eonj> ah
Nov 10 16:15:54 * mwester waits until CM (or others) have done so and reported if the latest stuff builds before he does an update... :p
Nov 10 16:16:11 <eonj> but, uboot throws an error when i try to build for x86
Nov 10 16:16:16 <CM> mwester: Hehe, qemu failed to build this morning but I'm giving it another try now
Nov 10 16:16:27 <eonj> which is how i run OM right now
Nov 10 16:16:31 <nelson> josch: are you SURE there isn't a "set me into pair mode" key combination?
Nov 10 16:19:14 <LetoTo> ahh dec 7 is the target date now
Nov 10 16:24:19 <nelson> josch: ahhhh, reading more I see that you got it working.  Excellent.
Nov 10 16:25:38 <torpor> eonj: i'm on a VM as well and as long as you keep up to date you should be fine .. 
Nov 10 16:26:23 <eonj> torpor cool, it seems i am :)
Nov 10 16:27:31 <abraxa_> nelson: Are you THE Russ Nelson? ;)
Nov 10 16:27:46 <eonj> how do i see which libraries are included by default in openmoko?
Nov 10 16:28:01 <nelson> abraxa_: I would be, except for all the imposters.
Nov 10 16:28:24 <abraxa_> nelson: Oooh, sneaky answer. Me like.
Nov 10 16:28:47 <abraxa_> eonj: You mean of all applications? For the entire distribution? Or what?
Nov 10 16:29:08 <nelson> abraxa_: I was the first Russ Nelson on the Internet, if that helps.
Nov 10 16:29:43 <nelson> abraxa_: you'd think I'd have some kind of ownership of the name or something, but honestly, they'll let ANYBODY on the 'net these days.
Nov 10 16:29:56 <abraxa_> nelson: Yes, that does make it clear ;)
Nov 10 16:30:07 <eonj> abraxa_: i mean like, i assume cairo is, and pango, but id like to make sure
Nov 10 16:30:18 <abraxa_> eonj: Yes, both are
Nov 10 16:30:19 <eonj> i'm new to the whole c/c++ dev environment
Nov 10 16:31:06 <abraxa_> nelson: Do you have particular interest in OpenMoko or are you just in here for leisure?
Nov 10 16:34:29 <torpor> abraxa_: get the jfss file, mount it, and look in /lib and /usr/lib for all the details.
Nov 10 16:36:38 <abraxa_> Actually, looking at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/rootfs/usr/lib/ would be the same with less effort :)
Nov 10 16:39:23 <torpor> i/clear
Nov 10 16:39:25 <nelson> abraxa_: yes, I want to run Google Maps on my cellphone with a GPS receiver.  I also want my cellphone to confess to my wife where I've been.
Nov 10 16:39:34 <eonj> or i could look in my /rootfs/usr/lib i guess right?
Nov 10 16:39:43 <abraxa_> eonj: 'course
Nov 10 16:39:45 <nelson> abraxa_: that way, when I'm out in the woods chainsawing, and I don't come back, she can find my corpse more easily.
Nov 10 16:40:06 <mwester> nelson:  here in the US the tollway operators will be happy to do that.
Nov 10 16:40:17 <CM> nelson: Hehe, what a way to put it ;)
Nov 10 16:40:20 <mwester> (confess to one's wife, that is)
Nov 10 16:40:22 <abraxa_> nelson: I'm sure that lets her sleep well at night :)
Nov 10 16:40:53 <nelson> well .... chainsaws have been known to leap up and cut off vital parts of one's body.
Nov 10 16:41:12 <LetoTo> nelson: there is a cool discovery protocol using gps and a double blind system
Nov 10 16:41:13 <nelson> That's why they have a handle brake and a tip guard.
Nov 10 16:41:13 <Kensan> exit
Nov 10 16:41:35 <nelson> Kensan: Ha!  It will take more than THAT to leave IRC, bwahahahahaha!
Nov 10 16:41:35 <LetoTo> nelson: you can ask another phone if they are "near". and only when your are near enough, will you reveal each others location
Nov 10 16:41:54 <torpor> why would you need that, when you've got DHS and NSA looking after you .. 
Nov 10 16:42:23 <LetoTo> it's for your friends :P
Nov 10 16:42:43 <LetoTo> you want to "grab a drink" with your friends if nearby, but you dont want to tell all your friends all the time exactly where you are
Nov 10 16:42:51 <abraxa_> LetoTo: You mean give one to your wife and have one yourself so you can be warned when your wife approaches your position? ;)
Nov 10 16:43:05 <LetoTo> abraxa: that would be another usage :)
Nov 10 16:43:33 <LetoTo> however, the protocol allows you to "lie" too, so your wife could let her phone say "i am far far away, you dont know where"
Nov 10 16:43:41 <mwester> I just send an email to anyone at random, that contains selected keywords.  This ensures that the DHS will be closely watching over me on my journey.  :)
Nov 10 16:43:45 <LetoTo> while watching your bedroom to catch you and your mistress :)
Nov 10 16:44:01 <eonj> if im making my own application with a local overlay, do i want to make my own image too?
Nov 10 16:44:21 <CM> eonj: Just installing it as an ipkg should be easier :)
Nov 10 16:44:27 <abraxa_> LetoTo: That would be an interesting debate to determine who's the "cheater" in that scenario.
Nov 10 16:44:29 <eonj> CM thanks
Nov 10 16:44:46 <LetoTo> abraxa: just have an open relationship with your wife instead :P
Nov 10 16:44:59 <eonj> CM I still want to go with local overlay though right? or does that make it irrelevant
Nov 10 16:45:03 <eonj> is there a good ipkg tutorial
Nov 10 16:45:14 <abraxa_> LetoTo: Ahh, I'd rather not :)
Nov 10 16:45:44 <LetoTo> abraxa: ahh a hypocrite :) he wants to screw other people but not allow the same for his wife. that's your real problem :)
Nov 10 16:46:02 <abraxa_> LetoTo: lol, didn't say I would. Just saying.
Nov 10 16:46:06 <LetoTo> eonj: I have an ipkg creator in openswan. It's a fairly simple makefile
Nov 10 16:46:38 <torpor> maybe you need to open source your wife?
Nov 10 16:46:38 <LetoTo> eonj: just untar an existing ipk should give you all you need to know really
Nov 10 16:47:13 <eonj> LetoTo: thanks. where can i see the openswan ipkg creator?
Nov 10 16:47:36 <LetoTo> sec. I'll put up a temp copy
Nov 10 16:47:41 <eonj> thanks
Nov 10 16:49:09 * hypa7ia pokes LetoTo 
Nov 10 16:49:19 <LetoTo> ohh
Nov 10 16:49:28 * LetoTo forgot hypa7ia is on this channel :)
Nov 10 16:53:07 <LetoTo> ohh
Nov 10 16:53:14 <LetoTo> eonj: you didnt get my priv msg did  you?
Nov 10 16:53:17 <LetoTo> fucking freenode :P
Nov 10 16:55:53 <eonj> LetoTo: i did, thanks! sorry im slow
Nov 10 16:59:57 <eonj> so i can build my app with bitbake according to the tutorials, then package it into an ipkg
Nov 10 17:00:57 <abraxa_> eonj: Correct
Nov 10 17:08:19 <eonj> how come everything builds fine, but i just type bitbake in my OMDIR/build it says command not found?
Nov 10 17:10:55 <abraxa_> eonj: Cause the makefile sources OMDIR/setup-env which sets up the path to bitbake (among other things)
Nov 10 17:11:27 <eonj> oh i see, i think following the app dev tut itll work because it uses the mokomakefile to build my package
Nov 10 17:12:12 <abraxa_> Yup
Nov 10 17:22:56 <flexd> One thing i've been thinking about
Nov 10 17:23:26 <flexd> The commands to send sms manually are there right?
Nov 10 17:23:40 <flexd> But there's no sms program?
Nov 10 17:25:34 <Ebbe> flexd: There exists a python program to send sms.
Nov 10 17:25:41 <flexd> ah
Nov 10 17:25:55 <flexd> I was thinking of trying to create one when i get my neo
Nov 10 17:26:12 <Ebbe> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMSTool
Nov 10 17:28:18 <Ebbe> flexd: Maybe you could make a program to read sms messages :)
Nov 10 17:33:33 <dashavoo> can anybody help me with running openmoko in qemu? Im having problems getting it to work
Nov 10 17:35:24 <balrog-kun> dashavoo: describe the problem or no one will know whether they can help you or not
Nov 10 17:35:35 <dashavoo> balrog-kun, just typing it
Nov 10 17:35:43 <balrog-kun> cool
Nov 10 17:41:47 <dashavoo> I run "make setup && make qemu", it does stuff, hangs for a while on "GTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd '" and then quits with the error message "U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up. make: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255"
Nov 10 17:45:36 <balrog-kun> dashavoo: there's some info on this here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937
Nov 10 17:45:43 <balrog-kun> unfortunately not very helpful
Nov 10 17:46:18 <univac> balrog-kun: :)
Nov 10 17:48:27 <dashavoo> balrog-kun, yeah, I read that already. I hoped somebody in here would have a better answer than the bugzilla =(
Nov 10 17:51:35 <balrog-kun> dashavoo: i would like to find the reason this happens but i can never reproduce it, the process just works everywhere i've tried it
Nov 10 17:51:42 <thomasgruebler> hi
Nov 10 17:51:44 <thomasgruebler> weis jemand wie ich multidesktop schaffe?
Nov 10 17:51:54 <thomasgruebler> weil ich hab das tutorial aus thinkwiki für mein thinkpad genommen
Nov 10 17:52:00 <eonj> so weird, i made my package, installed it with ipkg, and now it gives me "permission denied" when i try to run it
Nov 10 17:52:14 <thomasgruebler> doch danach brauchte es ne zeit bis es iwder funktionierte
Nov 10 17:52:43 <thomasgruebler> musste im init 1 starten wiel init3 zufälligerweise xorg so weit startete das nix mehr ging
Nov 10 17:52:49 <guaqua> thomasgruebler: this is not a general linux helpdesk
Nov 10 17:53:03 <thomasgruebler> sry
Nov 10 17:53:07 <thomasgruebler> wrong channel
Nov 10 17:53:08 <thomasgruebler> :D
Nov 10 17:53:10 <guaqua> :)
Nov 10 17:53:11 <thomasgruebler> sry
Nov 10 17:53:14 <guaqua> okay :)
Nov 10 17:55:19 <eonj>  ipkg install myhelloworld_0.1-r0_i486.ipk 
Nov 10 17:55:19 <eonj> Installing myhelloworld (0.1-r0) to root...
Nov 10 17:55:37 <eonj> why is it installing to root? it wont let me use it with permission denied after ipkg installs..
Nov 10 17:56:34 <abraxa_> eonj: i486? Building for x86?
Nov 10 17:56:46 <eonj> yeah... i dont know why, when i bitbake it didnt make an x86
Nov 10 17:57:20 <abraxa_> eonj: Are you chrooting into the rootfs and then use ipkg?
Nov 10 17:57:24 <eonj> abraxa_: yes
Nov 10 17:57:50 <eonj> abraxa_: my rootfs is built for x86 tho, so im probably doing something wrong
Nov 10 17:58:07 <eonj> do i need to change my site.conf to target x86 in my package?
Nov 10 17:58:43 <guaqua> if you want to run stuff on x86
Nov 10 17:59:11 <eonj> but how do i do that?
Nov 10 17:59:22 <guaqua> just change it in site.conf
Nov 10 17:59:26 <eonj> add MACHINE="x86" and BUILD_ARCH="i686" to the site.conf?
Nov 10 18:00:29 <CM> Have anyone else been able to build qemu today?
Nov 10 18:01:00 <balrog-kun> CM: can you pastebin the error?
Nov 10 18:01:27 <CM> balrog-kun: http://rafb.net/p/105aGS49.html
Nov 10 18:01:39 <CM> This looks suspicious: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.qemu/20891
Nov 10 18:01:47 <eonj> guaqua: when i changed it, doing . setup-env ; bitbake -b local/packages/myhelloworld/myhelloworld.bb breaks on do_compile
Nov 10 18:01:56 <balrog-kun> ouch
Nov 10 18:02:01 <CM> I did make clobber-qemu and tried to rebuild
Nov 10 18:03:51 <balrog-kun> CM: should be okay now
Nov 10 18:04:59 <CM> Ok, I'll retry from scrat :)
Nov 10 18:05:29 <CM> +ch
Nov 10 18:05:41 <balrog-kun> hopefully no need to start from scratch
Nov 10 18:05:54 <CM> Ok, even better :)
Nov 10 18:06:53 * CM smiles at A    trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/omap_i2c.c
Nov 10 18:25:36 <CM> balrog-kun: Thanks, compiled now at least. :)
Nov 10 18:25:45 <CM> Can't get it to flash though, but that's ok
Nov 10 18:27:10 <balrog-kun> :/
Nov 10 18:28:48 <CM> balrog-kun: http://rafb.net/p/g5GSJQ12.html
Nov 10 18:29:19 <eonj> i'm really confused by bitbake and site.conf when i do:
Nov 10 18:29:20 <eonj> export BBPATH=$OMDIR/local:$OMDIR/build:$OMDIR/openmoko/trunk/oe:$OMDIR/openembeded
Nov 10 18:29:42 <eonj> bitbake gives me an error like: ERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf
Nov 10 18:30:42 <CM> balrog-kun: I only have a OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-*.rootfs.jffs2
Nov 10 18:30:48 <balrog-kun> CM: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=954 has the solution
Nov 10 18:30:56 <balrog-kun> it's some old mokomakefile bug
Nov 10 18:31:02 <abraxa_> eonj: What directory are you in when issuing bitbake?
Nov 10 18:31:09 <CM> balrog-kun: Ah, danke
Nov 10 18:31:16 <eonj> $OMDIR/build
Nov 10 18:31:26 <balrog-kun> bitte :)
Nov 10 18:31:34 <abraxa_> Ew, Germans ;p
Nov 10 18:31:34 <eonj> abraxa_: i do it from $OMDIR or $OMDIR/build and get same error
Nov 10 18:31:54 <CM> abraxa_: Nein.. :P
Nov 10 18:32:00 <ScaredyCat> ten
Nov 10 18:32:08 <eonj> abraxa_: but if i don't export that (so its missing the $OMDIR/local part) then bitbake runs but it ignores seemingly all my site.confs that say machine=x86
Nov 10 18:32:20 <balrog-kun> abraxa_: where!
Nov 10 18:34:07 <abraxa_> eonj: What files do you have in build/conf?
Nov 10 18:34:19 <jeddy3> maybe wrong place (but since im playing on neo)...anyone knows how to adress audio sync issues in mpegs? some switch to either mencoder when encoding, or mplayer when playing...?
Nov 10 18:34:54 <josch> würden bitte alle deutschen wieder englisch sprechen? ich verstehe sonst nicht was ihr schreibt. danke.
Nov 10 18:34:54 <abraxa_> jeddy3: What's your command line when playing the mpegs?
Nov 10 18:34:57 <balrog-kun> jeddy3: maybe -idx
Nov 10 18:35:07 <eonj> abraxa_: local.conf and site.conf
Nov 10 18:35:10 <abraxa_> josch ;p
Nov 10 18:35:30 <CM> josch: Genau!
Nov 10 18:35:49 <jeddy3> abraxa_, just mplayer <file> :)
Nov 10 18:35:50 <balrog-kun> josch: volkswagen
Nov 10 18:35:52 <balrog-kun> err..
Nov 10 18:35:53 <abraxa_> eonj: site.conf is a symlink to a file in the OM SVN repo so editing might not be a good idea
Nov 10 18:36:04 <josch> balrog-kun, :-D
Nov 10 18:36:13 <abraxa_> jeddy3: Try adding -framedrop
Nov 10 18:36:14 <eonj> abraxa_: well i havn't touched it... 
Nov 10 18:36:24 <eonj> abraxa_: i was messing with local/conf/site.conf
Nov 10 18:36:49 <abraxa_> eonj: You have an overlay?
Nov 10 18:37:07 <eonj> abraxa_: yeah, i followed the tutorial
Nov 10 18:37:33 <jeddy3> abraxa_, balrog-kun: thanks, i'll try as soon as neo manages to get some charge :)
Nov 10 18:38:38 <abraxa_> jeddy3: Using QVGA?
Nov 10 18:38:47 <jeddy3> abraxa_, yes
Nov 10 18:39:05 <abraxa_> jeddy3: "-really-quiet -framedrop -noslices -lavdopts fast -pp 0 -sws 0 -vo fbdev -zoom -vf scale=320:-3,rotate=2" is what I use for the media player currently
Nov 10 18:39:45 <josch> abraxa_, seem reasonable
Nov 10 18:39:46 <abraxa_> eonj: Hmm, I'm not sure which conf has priority in that case... could be it's looking at the one in build/conf/local.conf
Nov 10 18:40:27 <eonj> abraxa_: if it is, its strange because that conf has MACHINE="x86" and BUILD_ARCH="i686" but its trying to compile with i486 gcc...
Nov 10 18:41:00 <abraxa_> eonj: Do the confs in your overlay say anything different?
Nov 10 18:41:00 <jeddy3> abraxa_, ouch! thanks :D
Nov 10 18:41:24 <eonj> abraxa_: i only have a site.conf in the overlay, and it says some more BB related stuff
Nov 10 18:41:28 <eonj> should i copy local.conf too/
Nov 10 18:42:46 <abraxa_> eonj: I honestly have no idea as I've never used OE overlays before :(
Nov 10 18:42:59 <jeddy3> abraxa_, you know how to show current fps/"load" or something when playing?
Nov 10 18:43:00 <eonj> abraxa_: thanks for tryin tho :)
Nov 10 18:44:58 <abraxa_> jeddy3: I didn't look into that yet, I have to admi
Nov 10 18:44:59 <abraxa_> t
Nov 10 18:45:11 <jeddy3> :)
Nov 10 18:46:34 <flexd> argh, python.org down for any of you guys?
Nov 10 18:48:16 <LarstiQ> flexd: nope
Nov 10 18:48:22 <flexd> err yeah
Nov 10 18:48:23 <flexd> nevermind
Nov 10 18:48:27 <flexd> just me not being able to type today
Nov 10 18:48:31 <flexd> i was writing pythong.org
Nov 10 18:48:34 <flexd> like tons of times
Nov 10 18:48:35 <flexd> :(
Nov 10 18:51:53 <abraxa_> thong, hm?
Nov 10 18:52:00 <eonj> whats the openembed channel?
Nov 10 18:52:08 <abraxa_> eonj: #oe
Nov 10 19:00:13 <eonj> does bitbake do the "handling bitbake files" every time i run it??
Nov 10 19:07:25 <CM> Some people like IKEA, but some really love it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zach_manchester/1875254180/
Nov 10 19:08:34 <jeddy3> haha xD
Nov 10 19:12:50 <eonj> where is the openmoko-devel-image.bb located so i can copy it?
Nov 10 19:14:22 <CM> eonj: Mine seems to be in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb
Nov 10 19:14:30 <eonj> oh ok thanks!
Nov 10 19:23:31 <eonj> ugh it seems this overlay guide is out of date ><
Nov 10 19:24:19 <CM> Nice, the dialler worked without any trouble at all in the snapshot from today :D
Nov 10 19:28:08 <torpor> CM: which snapshot are you using?
Nov 10 19:28:56 <eonj> does anyone use local overlay to dev apps?
Nov 10 19:31:10 <CM> torpor: Just the standard openmoko-devel-image built today with the makefile
Nov 10 19:31:12 <torpor> eonj: i haven't found it necessary
Nov 10 19:31:23 <eonj> torpor: how do you do it then?
Nov 10 19:31:26 <torpor> CM: your own local build, tho, right?
Nov 10 19:31:31 <eonj> i'm just trying to get started and i can't get helloworld to work ><
Nov 10 19:31:58 <CM> torpor: Yes, every day.. :)
Nov 10 19:32:21 <torpor> eonj: read this: http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt
Nov 10 19:32:26 <torpor> i wrote it just for you.
Nov 10 19:32:38 <eonj> appreciate it :P
Nov 10 19:33:10 <torpor> CM: i build at least every day, but i test my apps on my local flashed image, as well as those from automated.it and whatever is announced on the release list ..
Nov 10 19:33:19 <torpor> eonj: gimme questions
Nov 10 19:33:37 <nelson> Android
Nov 10 19:33:52 <CM> ~fish nelson 
Nov 10 19:33:53 * apt slaps nelson around with a large trout
Nov 10 19:34:09 <eonj> torpor: well im totally confused, after 2 hours of messing with local overlays and bitbake
Nov 10 19:34:22 <nelson> eonj: yes, it has to read in all the bitbake files.  Fortunately, it's doing it from a cache.
Nov 10 19:34:23 <eonj> torpor i'll read this and try again
Nov 10 19:34:49 <CM> eonj: Me too, it's definitely confusing. ScaredyCat knows a lot about it though.. ;)
Nov 10 19:35:11 <eonj> :)
Nov 10 19:36:58 <jeddy3> abraxa_, hmmm...the mpeg itself seems to be completely out of sync, it is the same on my computer...and starts playback out of sync from the start
Nov 10 19:37:18 <jeddy3> abraxa_, do you have any special encoding tricks you use?
Nov 10 19:37:40 <abraxa_> jeddy3: Hmm nope... unfortunately not
Nov 10 19:37:59 <jeddy3> abraxa_, have you encoded anything?
Nov 10 19:38:31 <abraxa_> jeddy3: Back in the days, yeah - not recently
Nov 10 19:38:43 <jeddy3> abraxa_, ah, ok thanks anyway :)
Nov 10 19:38:45 <nelson> ~fish Android
Nov 10 19:38:45 * apt slaps Android around with a large trout
Nov 10 19:38:48 <anrp> back in the good old days eh
Nov 10 19:38:57 <nelson> hehe.
Nov 10 19:39:03 <abraxa_> Yeah, the days of SVCDs...
Nov 10 19:44:21 <eonj> i think my main problem is that bitbake isn't compiling for i686 like i tell it to in local.conf
Nov 10 19:47:24 <torpor> jeddy3: encoding?  like media encoding, or some bitfield?
Nov 10 19:47:47 <jeddy3> torpor, encoding mpegs...with mencoder
Nov 10 19:48:00 <josch> this netsplit totally f***ed up my irc history....
Nov 10 19:48:06 <torpor> eonj: my advice is not touch any conf files in moko until you completed your first build and tested the resulting image ..
Nov 10 19:48:10 <dashavoo> I love embarassing my younger sister... all I have to do is wear my sarong when her friends come round and she goes bright red
Nov 10 19:48:13 <torpor> jeddy3: i see.
Nov 10 19:48:24 <torpor> oh man, netsplit.
Nov 10 19:48:24 <eonj> torpor:  ive done my first build, and i emulate it with Xephyr
Nov 10 19:48:29 <torpor> cool.
Nov 10 19:48:50 <eonj> torpor: that works fine, now im trying to build an app, but the only "success" ive had ended up with my helloworld being compiled for i486
Nov 10 19:48:54 <josch> eonj, you "emulate" it with xephyr??
Nov 10 19:49:09 <eonj> josch: ok, well i chroot and then look at it with xephyr
Nov 10 19:49:23 <josch> ah... k - I got slightly confused :-)
Nov 10 19:49:49 <matsimoto> Everybody who calls me has an annoying echo. Is it possible to supress this with the audio settings ? Or is this an electrical/mechanical problem ?
Nov 10 19:50:05 <torpor> eonj: then read my guide and copy the bitbake recipe .. 
Nov 10 19:50:20 <eonj> but the problem is i can't get helloworld to work >< when bitbake ran successfuly and gave me an i486 build which when installed with ipkg from the chroot env, wont let me run myhelloworld (permission denied)
Nov 10 19:50:24 <torpor> matsimoto: its an easy fix.
Nov 10 19:50:44 <CM> dashavoo: About that sarong, I hope you've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P842Tmi6lrc
Nov 10 19:50:45 <josch> torpor, I would also be interested in a fix
Nov 10 19:51:08 <torpor> eonj: if its an ARM 'emu' trying to run an x86 binary, you'll get a message other than "permission denied", which could mean any number of other things.
Nov 10 19:51:17 <torpor> what does 'file myhellworld' report?
Nov 10 19:51:34 <torpor> josch: its a pulseaudio thang.
Nov 10 19:51:40 <matsimoto> torpor: sounds exciting ... 
Nov 10 19:51:51 <josch> torpor, is the fix wikified?
Nov 10 19:51:52 <eonj> torpor, im not really emulating. i built openmoko for x86/i686 and just chroot into the (copied) rootfs
Nov 10 19:51:58 <torpor> but i don't do calls with my neo, so i don't know it.  but check the irc log.. 
Nov 10 19:52:03 <jpcass> torpor: for some reason, bitbake is not applying SRCREV overrides from sane-srcrevs.inc for package eds-dbus for me, so its always trying to build eds-dbus-1.4.0-svnr1-r6, when it should be r628 ... any idea why this could be being overlooked?
Nov 10 19:52:20 <torpor> jpcass: known bug.  check bugzilla.
Nov 10 19:52:39 <jpcass> torpor: ah, ok, thanks I will check...
Nov 10 19:52:53 <torpor> there is a bugzilla bot in here but i can't ever remember the keys .. 
Nov 10 19:52:57 <torpor> sorry.
Nov 10 19:53:20 <torpor> my personal situation dev-wise is that my images are working, and i am ignoring all functionality of the neo that isn't related to the code i'm writing specifically for it.
Nov 10 19:53:32 <torpor> i'm leaving a lot of the distro-wrinkles to people you like. ;)  
Nov 10 19:53:39 <eonj> so i want my bb to eventually put my ipkgs in $OMDIR/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/i686
Nov 10 19:53:40 <ScaredyCat> !ombug 555
Nov 10 19:53:41 <cdbot2> * * Bug 555, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 10 19:53:42 <cdbot2> * * philippedeswert(AT)scarlet.be: remove/disable portmap by default on official releases
Nov 10 19:53:43 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=555
Nov 10 19:53:46 <torpor> but as a lurker, i've noticed these issues..
Nov 10 19:54:28 <torpor> eonj: post your recipe and maybe its an easy fix .. 
Nov 10 19:54:34 <torpor> thanks ScaredyCat 
Nov 10 19:54:40 <matsimoto> josch: I found this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing, but reducing the level makes it a bit hard to understand the caller 
Nov 10 19:54:49 <torpor> !ombug linux
Nov 10 19:54:50 <cdbot2> * * Bug linux, Status: Unknown Error ()
Nov 10 19:54:55 <torpor> !ombug help
Nov 10 19:54:55 <cdbot2> * * Bug help, Status: Unknown Error ()
Nov 10 19:55:08 <jpcass> !ombug SRCREV
Nov 10 19:55:09 <cdbot2> * * Bug srcrev, Status: Unknown Error ()
Nov 10 19:55:30 <eonj> http://pastebin.com/m44b528b9
Nov 10 19:55:39 <torpor> i wish regex on cdbot2 worked..
Nov 10 19:55:47 <torpor> ~lart cdbot2
Nov 10 19:55:48 * apt offers cdbot2 some herring
Nov 10 19:56:06 <torpor> ~kick cdbot2 for not knowing regex
Nov 10 19:56:07 * apt kicks cdbot2 for not knowing regex
Nov 10 19:57:02 <dashavoo> CM, not yet, but il view it later
Nov 10 19:57:30 <eonj> torpor: http://pastebin.com/m44b528b9
Nov 10 19:57:39 <eonj> i basically got it all from: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Setting_Up_the_OpenMoko_Environment
Nov 10 19:58:04 <eonj> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Your_First_Application
Nov 10 19:58:06 <eonj> is what i meant
Nov 10 19:58:12 <torpor> yeah
Nov 10 19:58:19 <torpor> looks okay so far .. 
Nov 10 19:58:39 <torpor> how are you running this recipe?
Nov 10 20:00:24 <eonj> from my $OMDIR: cd build ; . ../setup-env ; bitbake -b ../local/packages/myhelloworld/myhelloworld.bb
Nov 10 20:00:28 <eonj> its actually building
Nov 10 20:00:34 <eonj> but its only building i486
Nov 10 20:00:38 <eonj> let me pastebin my local.conf
Nov 10 20:01:18 <eonj> http://pastebin.com/m1ee0f30a
Nov 10 20:01:22 <jpcass> torpor: cant find anything on bugzilla - how are you working around this?
Nov 10 20:02:42 <torpor> jpcass: i don't make calls. ;)
Nov 10 20:03:28 <torpor> eonj: take a look at my recipe and compare it to yours and tell me whats different. . . 
Nov 10 20:03:36 <torpor> i'll give you a hint: use autotools.
Nov 10 20:03:48 <torpor> http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt
Nov 10 20:04:07 <eonj> yeah, i have that open
Nov 10 20:04:14 <eonj> i guess ill try it with autotools ^^
Nov 10 20:04:16 <jpcass> torpor: bien sur!, but this means ./bb openmoko-devel-image fails so I cant even build an updated image... ;-(
Nov 10 20:04:16 <eonj> thanks
Nov 10 20:05:15 <torpor> jpcass: make clean-eds-dbus && make all 
Nov 10 20:06:03 <torpor> eonj: refresh, i made some changes.
Nov 10 20:06:10 <eonj> torpor: if im not mistaken following your example will still build for arm
Nov 10 20:07:06 <torpor> you want to build the same app for x86 and test on your linux machine, you mean?
Nov 10 20:07:17 <torpor> if so: use autotools
Nov 10 20:08:14 <eonj> yes, i don't have a neo and qemu is unbarably slow. so i'm trying to just use x86 env since im prototyping anyway
Nov 10 20:08:17 <eonj> ok ill try with autotools
Nov 10 20:10:05 <eonj> thanks for the guide
Nov 10 20:32:24 <eonj> torpor, maybe i should ask how you change autotools config to do a native build (not for arm4)
Nov 10 20:32:50 <eonj> i'm also getting a weird error from autom4te that breaks do_configure in bb...
Nov 10 20:35:27 <CM> I never got anywhere trying to build it native (x86-64)
Nov 10 20:35:52 <CM> "it" = the openmoko dist for running programs in Xoo or so
Nov 10 20:36:36 <eonj> i've gotten the dist to build, and it runs in xephyr or xoo
Nov 10 20:36:42 <eonj> now i want to build apps for it ^^
Nov 10 20:37:03 <CM> :)
Nov 10 20:55:41 <summatusmentis> is there a list of hardware that is not fic's that openmoko currently runs on?
Nov 10 20:56:45 <summatusmentis> specifically HTC apache?
Nov 10 20:58:14 <eonj> torpor: would you mind looking at this: http://pastebin.com/m60ee4ab7
Nov 10 21:01:09 <ScaredyCat> hehehehhe http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/?p=750
Nov 10 21:01:22 <eonj> ScaredyCat: i hear you know a lil about bitbake and such too ^^
Nov 10 21:01:48 <ScaredyCat> a little...
Nov 10 21:02:28 <eonj> do you use autotools to dev apps?
Nov 10 21:10:25 <abraxa_> eonj: What problem are you encountering?
Nov 10 21:10:48 <eonj> its in the pastebin, basically m4 is crapping out in my do_configure when i bitbake
Nov 10 21:10:55 <abraxa_> ah o
Nov 10 21:10:55 <abraxa_> k
Nov 10 21:12:32 <Askyron> http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=1041549
Nov 10 21:12:32 <Askyron> http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=1041549
Nov 10 21:12:44 <abraxa_> eonj: I'd say that PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GETBIGGER, gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6.0) should read PKG_CHECK_MODULES(ENJHELLO, gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6.0)
Nov 10 21:12:57 <abraxa_> Otherwise AC_SUBST() has nothing to subst
Nov 10 21:14:09 <eonj> abraxa_: thanks for pointing that out. but if i change it i get same error
Nov 10 21:16:21 <abraxa_> eonj: I'm not sure what the error could be then as you only get warnings anyway
Nov 10 21:16:32 <eonj> yeh
Nov 10 21:17:49 <abraxa_> What I'd try:
Nov 10 21:18:24 <abraxa_> #1: Use brackets for "gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6.0": PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GETBIGGER, [gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6.0])
Nov 10 21:18:40 <abraxa_> #2: Comment stuff out until it starts working
Nov 10 21:20:31 <torpor> eonj: you are requiring AC_PREREQ(2.61) but only providing 1.9 ..
Nov 10 21:20:55 <eonj> hmm
Nov 10 21:22:28 <torpor> yeah, GETBIGGER won't be useful to you .. 
Nov 10 21:22:37 <eonj> yeah, i changed that up
Nov 10 21:22:46 <eonj> i was copying and replacing with my name
Nov 10 21:22:48 <balrog-kun> 2.0 >= 2.6.0, while i know what it means, looks like always false :)
Nov 10 21:22:51 <torpor> each autoconf comes with its own macro's .. 
Nov 10 21:23:15 <torpor> gtk+-2.0 is the package name, and its version must be >= 2.6.0
Nov 10 21:23:18 <eonj> yeah, i generated with autoscan
Nov 10 21:23:26 <balrog-kun> torpor: yeah
Nov 10 21:23:46 <torpor> the macro's must match the tools.
Nov 10 21:24:11 <torpor> change prereq to 1.9 and see if that solves the issue.
Nov 10 21:24:18 <eonj> i did, it doesn't solve it :(
Nov 10 21:24:22 <torpor> exit 1 is happening because of too many warnings .. 
Nov 10 21:24:25 <eonj> exact same message
Nov 10 21:24:35 <torpor> put gettext on your system.
Nov 10 21:24:40 <torpor> thats the only error i can see .. ;)
Nov 10 21:25:08 <torpor> you are on redhat correct?
Nov 10 21:25:13 <eonj> sudo apt-get install gettext says its already at latest version
Nov 10 21:25:14 <eonj> ubuntu
Nov 10 21:26:05 <eonj> but what about making it build for x86 instead of i486, your guide says its easy but i dont see how to change that
Nov 10 21:26:34 <torpor> in that case you simply run your local aclocal on the project config
Nov 10 21:26:41 <torpor> i'm getting to that (DRAFT)
Nov 10 21:26:46 <eonj> i se
Nov 10 21:27:42 <torpor> you want to basically write apps for your machine, then run them (with the same API's/libs) on the neo at some point, right?
Nov 10 21:27:45 <torpor> but you don't have a neo.
Nov 10 21:28:01 <eonj> exactly
Nov 10 21:28:07 <torpor> so you get the autotools-based project rolling on your local machine first, and then worry about using openmoko to cross-compile.
Nov 10 21:28:27 <torpor> seems you have not done step 1
Nov 10 21:28:31 <eonj> i see
Nov 10 21:28:45 <eonj> so i need to follow an autotools tutorial then
Nov 10 21:28:49 <torpor> and that is highly dependent on your local distro setup .. but you want to sync the two systems..
Nov 10 21:28:56 <torpor> i would advise a little autotools love first.
Nov 10 21:29:02 <Tyrae1> Hi all. (I know that I'm OT, but please it is urgent) Is there someone that know LISP?
Nov 10 21:29:24 <torpor> there are good ones out there, such as:  http://www-src.lip6.fr/homepages/Alexandre.Duret-Lutz/dl/autotools.pdf
Nov 10 21:29:32 <torpor> Tyrae1: (no)
Nov 10 21:31:02 <eonj> thanks for the help torpor
Nov 10 21:31:05 <eonj> ill read up
Nov 10 21:31:06 <abraxa_> Tyrae1: #lisp? ;)
Nov 10 21:31:23 <torpor> eonj: you're welcome, and come back when you want someone to test your app on openmoko/neo1973 hardware! :)
Nov 10 21:31:52 <eonj> awesome :)
Nov 10 21:33:43 <Tyrae1> yep... I have a stupid question on function that return 2 or more values
Nov 10 21:48:17 <matsimoto> nothing found about echo cancellation in the wiki :( any hints where I can look for it ?
Nov 10 21:59:53 <Ebbe> When I want to build to the neo with MokoMakefile, how should my ~/moko/build/conf file look like?
Nov 10 22:07:40 <abraxa_> Ebbe: Building for the Neo, QEmu or x86?
Nov 10 22:07:49 <Ebbe> abraxa_: Neo
Nov 10 22:08:12 <Ebbe> abraxa_: What do you have as BUILD_ARCH?
Nov 10 22:08:55 <abraxa_> Ebbe: http://pastebin.com/m31e1c8ba is mine - you may want to use rm_work, you may not. It's up to you
Nov 10 22:09:45 <Ebbe> abraxa_: Okay. Thanks :)
Nov 10 22:13:13 <abraxa_> Sure thing :)
Nov 10 22:21:13 <josch> grrr... did someone msg me? my history got destroyed by netsplit again...
Nov 10 22:23:11 <mcscruff> lo all
Nov 10 22:23:22 <abraxa_> josch: matsimoto did
Nov 10 22:23:24 <abraxa_> <matsimoto> josch: I found this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing, but reducing the level makes it a bit hard to understand the caller 
Nov 10 22:24:27 <mcscruff> im waiting for the consumer version and just checked in to see what kind of stuff this kick ass phone will run
Nov 10 22:25:11 <abraxa_> mcscruff: Thanks for your interest. Is there a certain application you have in mind?
Nov 10 22:25:54 <mcscruff> abraxa_, will there be a terminal of any kind?
Nov 10 22:26:06 <abraxa_> Yes, there already is as a matter of fact
Nov 10 22:26:15 <mcscruff> cool!!
Nov 10 22:26:44 <abraxa_> You might want to check out http://scaps.linuxtogo.org to see some of the things running on GTA01 and other such devices
Nov 10 22:26:56 <mcscruff> and i should be able to compile apps for that much like you can when cross compiling?
Nov 10 22:27:00 <mcscruff> i will do , ty
Nov 10 22:27:06 <abraxa_> My bad, http://scap.linuxtogo.org
Nov 10 22:27:32 <abraxa_> Yes, cross-compiling is what everyone does :)
Nov 10 22:28:14 <torpor> abraxa_: i don't.
Nov 10 22:28:26 <torpor> i build local, test local, then cross-compile at milestone
Nov 10 22:29:02 <abraxa_> Okay, not everyone... you're Gargamel ;D
Nov 10 22:29:32 <torpor> oh joy
Nov 10 22:29:41 <mcscruff> i see in the topic you mention wifi, but i cant see that in the neo specs?
Nov 10 22:29:51 <torpor> i get to watch the smurfs have a big gay orgy and then get pissed about it .. 
Nov 10 22:30:04 <torpor> mcscruff: gta02 has wlan, gta01 doesn't.
Nov 10 22:30:11 <torpor> gta01 is a developer release
Nov 10 22:30:17 <mcscruff> kk
Nov 10 22:30:30 <torpor> for developers, it doesn't matter if wlan is used or bluetooth or usb-gadget-net 
Nov 10 22:30:43 <torpor> unless you're doing a wlan app, of course, but thats moot .. 
Nov 10 22:30:53 <torpor> i'm fine with bluetooth-pand for example .. 
Nov 10 22:31:14 <xzcvczx> grrr when are dvdr-dl's going to come down in price
Nov 10 22:31:51 <mcscruff> i think wlan will be a large selling point, on the hardware side is there any other phone designs in the making as i have a touch screen phone at the moment but it is hard to text on the move
Nov 10 22:32:16 <mcscruff> xzcvczx, under £1 each 
Nov 10 22:32:21 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: i doubt a phone with buttons will be released
Nov 10 22:32:22 <mcscruff> thats not too bad
Nov 10 22:32:48 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: singly they at least $7.99 and packs at least $4 each here
Nov 10 22:33:33 <xzcvczx> and i dont know what your currency is meant to be as it came up as question mark
Nov 10 22:33:37 <mcscruff> i usually get 10 for £8 , bout usd 17
Nov 10 22:33:55 <mcscruff> gbp
Nov 10 22:34:01 <xzcvczx> ah
Nov 10 22:34:03 <torpor> mcscruff: wlan+multitouch is going to be *standard* in 2008.  anything other than that is going to be cheap and nasty
Nov 10 22:35:23 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: i reckon if you put a 12 digit keypad on the neo for texting it would probably be just as quick as a normal phone
Nov 10 22:36:01 <mcscruff> is there any rough dates for the consumer version?
Nov 10 22:36:34 <mcscruff> or is it just "end of year"
Nov 10 22:37:04 <xzcvczx> when its ready :P
Nov 10 22:37:06 <mjr> it'll be a consumer version when the software is up to it
Nov 10 22:37:39 <mcscruff> only downside is the lack of camera but beggers can't be choosers
Nov 10 22:38:33 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: i find cameras are very much a novelty and good for taking photos when you car clocks 100,000k and thats it
Nov 10 22:38:41 <xzcvczx> well camera phones
Nov 10 22:38:59 <mcscruff> i use mine on drunken nights out
Nov 10 22:39:15 <xzcvczx> lol i just use my charm :P
Nov 10 22:39:18 <torpor> xzcvczx: i can think of far more uses than that
Nov 10 22:39:31 <xzcvczx> torpor: like?
Nov 10 22:39:46 <mcscruff> but as its all open source some ppl might decide to rip one of of another phone, solder it in and write a driver
Nov 10 22:39:55 <torpor> taking someones contact info, then ocr'ing it
Nov 10 22:44:31 <cb22> torpor, i have a p990 that is supposed to do that... its a huge gimick
Nov 10 22:45:05 <torpor> well it works fine for me in the places i've used it (gp2x+usb webcam)
Nov 10 22:45:13 <mcscruff> i like my xda orbit, great phone but it runs windows crap
Nov 10 22:45:20 <torpor> and pics are not just for myspace, is the point .. 
Nov 10 23:04:31 <josch> abraxa_, thx
Nov 10 23:11:37 <Joe_> hey
Nov 10 23:11:56 <abraxa_> Aloha
Nov 10 23:12:18 <Joe_> Hey abraxa, whats your intrest in the neo1973?
Nov 10 23:12:53 <abraxa_> That's a simple one: everything
Nov 10 23:13:25 <cb22> yes, you see abraxa_ really is a neo1973
Nov 10 23:13:33 <cb22> he is the new AI we plan to integrate
Nov 10 23:13:57 <Joe_> I'm a design student in the UK. i've beenr eading lots about Openmoko and Neo1973. I'm really pleased to see such a popular channel on it :-D
Nov 10 23:14:26 <Joe_> Do you have a handset?
Nov 10 23:14:46 <Joe_> I'm waiting egarly for the next release
Nov 10 23:16:37 <abraxa_> cb22: Sssh. That was supposed to be secret!
Nov 10 23:16:52 <Joe_> Does anyone hand or know of good blogs from people playing with the GTA01?
Nov 10 23:17:05 <Joe_> hand = have
Nov 10 23:17:19 <balrog-kun> Joe_: yup, they even have an aggreagtor
Nov 10 23:17:19 <abraxa_> Joe_: I *am* a handset. If you want to find people blogging about playing with me and my friends you can check out http://planet.openmoko.org
Nov 10 23:17:23 <Joe_> I'm ega to read more on what people are doing
Nov 10 23:17:25 <josch> abraxa_, i KNEW there was something suspicious about you!
Nov 10 23:17:36 <balrog-kun> Joe_: http://planet.openmoko.org/
Nov 10 23:17:45 <Joe_> cheers!!
Nov 10 23:18:03 * Joe_ takes a seat
Nov 10 23:18:25 <balrog-kun> if you look at the older posts there will be more on-topic stuff
Nov 10 23:18:52 <Joe_> i'll havea good browse. thanks very much!
Nov 10 23:19:17 <balrog-kun> (because currently everyone's nokia n800-frenzy) 
Nov 10 23:19:29 <balrog-kun> err, 810
Nov 10 23:19:31 <Joe_> is openmoko running on the n800?
Nov 10 23:19:35 <Joe_> 810*
Nov 10 23:20:36 <balrog-kun> i don't know
Nov 10 23:20:46 <Tene> not that I've heard of.
Nov 10 23:20:52 <balrog-kun> but were are some of the same people working on both
Nov 10 23:21:27 <Joe_> i see
Nov 10 23:22:34 <cb22> abraxa_, you know what comes up if you google your nick?
Nov 10 23:24:00 <abraxa_> cb22: Yes, and I'm not affiliated with it ;)
Nov 10 23:25:08 <Ghiottone> eheheheh
Nov 10 23:25:17 <Ghiottone> hello all :)
Nov 10 23:25:18 <zash> hahahaha
Nov 10 23:25:20 <guaqua> haha :>
Nov 10 23:25:25 <Joe_> hi
Nov 10 23:26:09 <xzcvczx> hahahahahahahaha
Nov 10 23:26:31 <xzcvczx> everyone point and laugh
Nov 10 23:27:22 <cb22> abraxa_, you still working on the MP widget?
Nov 10 23:28:07 <abraxa_> cb22: Widget?
Nov 10 23:28:47 <CM> abraxa_: Lol! I didn't know you were the number one hit on google..
Nov 10 23:29:01 <abraxa_> =*(
Nov 10 23:29:18 <abraxa_> That's not me, I'm not *that* mentally ill ;)
Nov 10 23:29:19 <Ghiottone> hey cm 
Nov 10 23:29:22 <cb22> wow, the lag here is killing me
Nov 10 23:29:54 <zash> cb22: how bad is it?
Nov 10 23:30:14 <CM> Ghiottone: Evening
Nov 10 23:31:12 <cb23> hmm
Nov 10 23:31:17 * cb23 pokes cb22 
Nov 10 23:31:36 <cb23> abraxa_: you get my question?
Nov 10 23:31:41 <cb23> about the media player widget?
Nov 10 23:31:58 <abraxa_> cb23: Yeah, and I asked "widget?"
Nov 10 23:32:33 <cb23> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Abraxa
Nov 10 23:33:21 <abraxa_> cb23: Ah - well, it's not a widget but rather an application, so that threw me off :)
Nov 10 23:33:30 <Linux_Galore> Joe_: N810 has its own GTK based UI thats designed specifically for it, I cant see the logic of porting OM to it
Nov 10 23:33:31 <abraxa_> And yes, I actually am working on it as we speak
Nov 10 23:33:46 <abraxa_> mplayer integration is turning out to be a PITA
Nov 10 23:34:05 <cb23> hehe, i feel your pain
Nov 10 23:34:08 <cb23> i tried it once
Nov 10 23:34:08 <CM> How have you planned to integrate that into the gui?
Nov 10 23:34:12 <Linux_Galore> abraxa_: well mplayer is a 20lb gorilla 
Nov 10 23:34:22 <CM> A special "Play movie" tab or so?
Nov 10 23:34:25 <cb23> tcpmp anyone?
Nov 10 23:35:18 <Joe_> Linux-: im very much a newbie - it was jsut a question :)
Nov 10 23:35:21 <cb23> tcpmp is really fast, on a 300mhz xscale it can decode a full res, 350mb prison break episode
Nov 10 23:35:27 <guaqua> we could run the n810 native ui on top of openmoko :)
Nov 10 23:35:36 <cb23> and scale it down to 240x240
Nov 10 23:35:36 <abraxa_> CM: If a movie loads you can press the play button which will switch the Neo into QVGA mode, launch mplayer and control it through touchscreen input
Nov 10 23:35:46 <CM> Nice
Nov 10 23:35:50 <Linux_Galore> abraxa_: the nokia N770/800/810 has a open source third party media player. I would have thought porting that over would been smarter and less time consuming 
Nov 10 23:36:15 <CM> Hmm.. Like play/pause, exit, and volume up/down by "invisible" buttons?
Nov 10 23:36:39 <CM> Like sliding up or down on the right side of the video sets the volume?
Nov 10 23:36:46 <cb23> abraxa_: is the qvga switching transparent?
Nov 10 23:37:10 <abraxa_> cb23: Transparent in what sense?
Nov 10 23:37:13 <cb23> oh, and speaking of that... not sure if any one has suggested it, but using the aux button as a lock button would be cool
Nov 10 23:37:28 <cb23> abraxa_: in the sense of the screen doesn't go black and flicker a few times like a PC
Nov 10 23:37:46 <Linux_Galore> openhand have a new version of maemo in the works for the N series, images Ive seen look pretty nice, lots of 3D effects
Nov 10 23:38:00 <abraxa_> Linux_Galore: Quite frankly I didn't know that but even if I had I wouldn't have cared much - I don't want to just copy things for OM ;)
Nov 10 23:38:08 <abraxa_> cb23: Nope, doesn't
Nov 10 23:38:38 <Linux_Galore> abraxa_: you can change the UI around, it is GTK but the underlying code is mplayer
Nov 10 23:38:39 <cb23> cool
Nov 10 23:39:44 <abraxa_> Linux_Galore: Unfortunately that's a no-go then, as gstreamer was desired
Nov 10 23:39:50 <Linux_Galore> to be honest though I wouldnt use the OM for playing video files Im getting a COWON A3 for that
Nov 10 23:40:28 <Linux_Galore> 2.8" screen is just too small
Nov 10 23:40:38 <Linux_Galore> ok for pictures though 
Nov 10 23:41:11 <Linux_Galore> COWON A3 = 4" PMP that runs linux and plays just about anything, yep even mkv
Nov 10 23:41:41 <Joe_> whats mkv?
Nov 10 23:41:50 <balrog-kun> Linux_Galore: the video is not anythign to do with Maemo afaik
Nov 10 23:42:05 <cb23> Joe_: a video container, like avi on steroids
Nov 10 23:42:06 <Linux_Galore> Joe_: its a container for video files, very commonly used now with anime video files
Nov 10 23:42:30 <Joe_> Sounds cool :-)
Nov 10 23:42:52 <cb23> indeed, it has subtitle and multiple track support
Nov 10 23:43:06 <CM> Linux_Galore: Is that Matroska?
Nov 10 23:43:06 <Linux_Galore> Joe_:  basically 170mb XVID file turns into a 140mb mkv with the same resolution 
Nov 10 23:43:08 <Joe_> Is there a short way for xchat it to place 'linux_galore' or 'cb23:' ahead of my message?
Nov 10 23:43:23 <CM> So you can put subtitles and all that stuff in the same file?
Nov 10 23:43:24 <cb23> Joe_: yep
Nov 10 23:43:32 <Linux_Galore> CM: YES
Nov 10 23:43:33 <cb23> just type 'cb' or whatever and press tab
Nov 10 23:43:38 <cb23> CM: indeed
Nov 10 23:43:48 <Joe_> cb ...
Nov 10 23:43:54 <CM> Thought so, nice indeed
Nov 10 23:44:02 <CM> Joe_: What irc client are you using?
Nov 10 23:44:06 <Joe_> xchaty
Nov 10 23:44:07 <cb23> hmm? think of it like bash
Nov 10 23:44:10 <Joe_> xchat*
Nov 10 23:44:15 <cb23> ah
Nov 10 23:44:16 <Joe_> sorry im very mucha  newbie here
Nov 10 23:44:19 <cb23> try cb2 and press tab
Nov 10 23:44:29 <Joe_> cb23, gotcha!
Nov 10 23:44:50 <cb23> xchat by default will only complete unique names on tab
Nov 10 23:45:19 * CM hugs irssi in a screen
Nov 10 23:45:27 <Joe_> cb23, thanks
Nov 10 23:45:32 <cb23> to change, go settings -> preferences -> input box -> automatic nick completion
Nov 10 23:45:41 <cb23> then pressing tab will cycle through the nicks avalable
Nov 10 23:45:44 <cb23> CM: amen
Nov 10 23:46:30 <Joe_> cb23: cheers!
Nov 10 23:46:46 <zash> irssi in screen on some dudes server with ups
Nov 10 23:46:49 <zash> ftw
Nov 10 23:47:52 <CM> zash: På ACC? ;)
Nov 10 23:48:02 <CM> Rätt stabil uptime där
Nov 10 23:48:36 <zash> CM: nope ;)
Nov 10 23:49:19 <CM> zash: Just sucks when Ubuntu has a release since the images are on ACC's server, and irc laggs like mad for 2-3 days
Nov 10 23:49:38 <CM> zash: ftp.gnome.org = farfar.acc.umu.se också :)
Nov 10 23:50:06 <zash> mm, hänger i en annan kanal med en del folk från acc
Nov 10 23:50:33 <zash> och annat umefolk
Nov 10 23:51:38 <CM> löst folk mao ;)
Nov 10 23:51:46 <cjb_ie> jävla svenskar överallt :)
Nov 10 23:51:50 <CM> Hehe
Nov 10 23:52:08 <Joe_> Linux_Galore: what app are you using to play your Matroska files?
Nov 10 23:52:18 <CM> cjb_ie: Our fast connections gives us the chance to stick our noses everywhere.. ;)
Nov 10 23:52:34 <Linux_Galore> Joe_: kplayer
Nov 10 23:52:35 <cjb_ie> that must be it
Nov 10 23:52:40 <cjb_ie> you and your 40-gigabit grannies
Nov 10 23:52:40 <CM> mwester-laptop: Evening :)
Nov 10 23:52:51 <CM> Oh yes
Nov 10 23:52:55 <mwester-laptop> 'allo!
Nov 10 23:52:56 <Linux_Galore> sorry kmplayer
Nov 10 23:53:10 <Joe_> Linux_Galore: i'll check it out
Nov 10 23:54:52 <xzcvczx> wow burning a double layer image takes forever
Nov 10 23:57:51 <mcscruff> 40 mins
Nov 10 23:58:05 <mcscruff> wot u burning?
Nov 11 00:01:14 <xzcvczx> my leopard seed off adc
Nov 11 00:01:37 <mcscruff> eeew
Nov 11 00:01:59 <CM> hehe
Nov 11 00:02:27 <mcscruff> lol
Nov 11 00:02:33 <mcscruff> ubuntu 7.10 :P
Nov 11 00:02:47 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: yeah i know i was waiting to see mIRC
Nov 11 00:02:57 <mcscruff> lol, thats worse
Nov 11 00:03:11 <mcscruff> i love my xchat
Nov 11 00:03:12 <xzcvczx> thats what i was going to say if you in fact had that
Nov 11 00:03:18 <xzcvczx> i dont really like xchat
Nov 11 00:03:21 <xzcvczx> irssi ftw
Nov 11 00:03:31 <zash> yeah!
Nov 11 00:03:42 <meus> irssi++
Nov 11 00:03:45 <CM> I'm to lazy to learn all the irssi tricks though..
Nov 11 00:04:28 <xzcvczx> 90 ish percent
Nov 11 00:05:14 <xzcvczx> mcscruff: oh and osx is nice as a machine that all it does is stream movies from a server and play them on a 42" tv
Nov 11 00:06:28 <xzcvczx> only problem is i dont have an apple keyboard or mouse so makes some stuff interesting to say the least
Nov 11 00:40:24 <flexd> Hmm
Nov 11 00:40:35 <flexd> Does anyone know how to make python bindings for something? :/
Nov 11 00:41:29 <bmk789__> would it be possible to write software for the neo1973 that would let it use the accelometers and bluetooth to work as a wii controller?
Nov 11 00:42:15 <guaqua> i think wii controller also uses infra red or some sort of visual scanning
Nov 11 00:42:46 <balrog-kun> maybe with a usb IrDA dongle (on GTA02)
Nov 11 00:43:12 <bmk789__> but the accelerometers couldnt do it themselves?
Nov 11 00:44:03 <mcscruff> bmk789__, in theory yes, you could modify the current linux drivers
Nov 11 00:44:41 <mcscruff> im no developer tho
Nov 11 00:44:48 <bmk789__> thats one more addition to the wishlist
Nov 11 00:44:55 <bmk789__> i really need to learn some programming
Nov 11 00:47:18 <mcscruff> thats 1 thing i would prob port
Nov 11 00:47:24 <mcscruff> when consumer is out
Nov 11 00:47:32 <Kragnerac> Web Apps for OpenMoko. :)
Nov 11 00:47:33 <mcscruff> or the 360 controller
Nov 11 00:48:03 <loufoque> can I have a neo1973 as a christmas gift?
Nov 11 00:48:15 <mcscruff> lol
Nov 11 00:48:32 <mcscruff> will there be any eu suppliers
Nov 11 00:48:52 <loufoque> santa claus distributes worldwide
Nov 11 00:48:58 <bmk789__> mcscruff: 360 uses bluetooth?
Nov 11 00:49:02 <mcscruff> yes
Nov 11 00:49:11 <mcscruff> :)
Nov 11 00:49:17 <bmk789__> cool
Nov 11 00:50:10 <abraxa_> bmk789__: Just a thought... if the Neo slides out of your hands and hits a sturdy surface... well, let's just say buying a new wii remote would be cheaper ;)
Nov 11 00:51:02 <loufoque> so you go to your friends' to play the wii
Nov 11 00:51:10 <bmk789__> abraxa_: thats true
Nov 11 00:51:14 <loufoque> oh no! we don't have enough remote contols!
Nov 11 00:51:15 <zash> OMG WIRELESS SHEEP
Nov 11 00:51:20 <mcscruff> is java on this?
Nov 11 00:51:21 <loufoque> and then, you get your neo out
Nov 11 00:51:31 <loufoque> "no worries, I always carry one with me"
Nov 11 00:51:48 <bmk789__> lol
Nov 11 00:52:19 <Jiten> bmk789__: the wii-remote has better accelerometers.
Nov 11 00:53:03 <zash> how hard would it be to solder a ir-diode to the neo and have some universal remote-software
Nov 11 00:53:34 <mcscruff> it has a usb port so im thinking easy
Nov 11 00:54:25 <zash> mcscruff: i think there are ppl porting java to om
Nov 11 00:55:00 <mcscruff> cool, will be nice to have some gmaes
Nov 11 00:55:02 <loufoque> aren't there java vms for arm already?
Nov 11 00:55:04 <mcscruff> *games
Nov 11 00:55:29 <loufoque> mcscruff: slow games?
Nov 11 00:55:36 <loufoque> remember, no OpenGL
Nov 11 00:56:17 * zash wants starcraft on the neo
Nov 11 00:56:33 <guaqua> starcraft 2
Nov 11 00:57:40 <mcscruff> doom!!
Nov 11 01:00:05 <zash> unreal tournament 3!
Nov 11 01:01:30 <loufoque> well, if we had a good opengl driver, real games wouldn't be so far
Nov 11 01:01:37 <Ghiottone> endgame: singularity
Nov 11 01:01:37 <mcscruff> and lemonade tycoon
Nov 11 01:06:12 <loufoque> how powerful is the GPU?
Nov 11 01:08:54 <abraxa_> <oc2k1> The specifications are looking similar to the voodoo 1....
Nov 11 01:09:08 <abraxa_> How credible that statement is however, I have no idea
Nov 11 01:09:09 <mcscruff> 266MHz
Nov 11 01:09:51 <oc2k1> the filling rate is 50Mpixel
Nov 11 01:10:00 <oc2k1> that is similar to the voodoo1
Nov 11 01:10:09 <abraxa_> Ah, you're around :)
Nov 11 01:10:22 <loufoque> it's 33M according to their site
Nov 11 01:11:28 <loufoque> 50M for the 3370
Nov 11 01:13:10 <oc2k1> isn't the 3362 from the 3370 series?
Nov 11 01:15:20 <oc2k1> unfortunately the neo1973 has no joypad  inputs.... elsewher it would be possible to play playstation like games...
Nov 11 01:16:22 <oc2k1> but MMORGs or games like simsity shouldn't be a problem
Nov 11 01:17:19 <Ghiottone> I want eternal lands on the neo!!
Nov 11 01:18:07 <oc2k1> and the accelerometers could be used for "ball in a maze" game
Nov 11 01:18:55 <mcscruff> oc2k1, bluetooth joypad
Nov 11 01:19:13 <oc2k1> I hope I will get a neo insteat the greenphone I've wonn in a qt contest
Nov 11 01:19:31 <mcscruff> ooo, tht greenphone looks quite nice
Nov 11 01:20:02 <oc2k1> yes but for me the neo has more advantages
Nov 11 01:20:24 <mcscruff> have both
Nov 11 01:21:25 <Ghiottone> what will the price of gta02 be?
Nov 11 01:21:45 <oc2k1> the wiki says $450
Nov 11 01:21:52 <Ghiottone> base ver?
Nov 11 01:21:56 <oc2k1> yes
Nov 11 01:21:56 <mcscruff> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek
Nov 11 01:22:04 <Ghiottone> thanks
Nov 11 01:22:10 <mcscruff> will they do it free on contract :P
Nov 11 01:23:58 <loufoque> oc2k1: if you have a greenphone and don't want it, you can send it to me
Nov 11 01:24:13 <oc2k1> How will the opengl ES implementation be done? Does the IHV provide te requiered informations?
Nov 11 01:24:32 <loufoque> oc2k1: the opengl es implementation won't be done in the near future
Nov 11 01:25:46 <oc2k1> nobody can do it or no informations?
Nov 11 01:27:16 <balrog-kun> perhaps no time for that, i don't know
Nov 11 01:27:43 <abraxa_> oc2k1: Priority is rather low, unfortunately
Nov 11 01:34:03 <oc2k1> It is possible to get more informations about the chip?  Or are they available with a NDA?
Nov 11 01:37:59 <abraxa_> Depends on the kind of info you want :)
Nov 11 01:39:01 <oc2k1> lets say the informations to write the implementation...
Nov 11 01:40:37 <abraxa_> Well, that would be NDA only, unsurprisingly
Nov 11 01:40:47 <Ghiottone> nite guys
Nov 11 01:41:15 <abraxa_> Night, Ghiottone 
Nov 11 01:42:14 <oc2k1> are there any other free informations?  like size of texture momory ....
Nov 11 01:43:24 * ljp wishes there was a 2.6 kernel on the greenphoe
Nov 11 01:44:35 <oc2k1> would it be possible to use a mini SD wlan card in a greenphone?
Nov 11 01:55:12 <ljp> oc2k1: its possible, but depending on how much volt/amps it needs, it may or maynot work
Nov 11 01:55:34 <oc2k1> k
Nov 11 02:27:47 <bmk789_> would it be worth trying to install openmoko on an ipaq?
Nov 11 02:29:35 <balrog-kun> afaik it's been done, i don't know if it turned out "worth" :p
Nov 11 02:30:49 <bmk789_> would it be very difficult?  i havent been able to find any guides
Nov 11 02:36:22 * niklauz not a troll
Nov 11 02:36:29 * niklauz is not a troll
Nov 11 02:36:46 <niklauz> anyone excited about the andriod sdk release on monday?
Nov 11 02:49:54 <ferric> niklauz: not really
Nov 11 02:50:03 <ferric> niklauz: android is prettye disppointing.
Nov 11 02:52:36 <ljp> it will be intersting what the sdk is about
Nov 11 02:55:54 <bmk789_> glad its open source though
Nov 11 02:56:05 <bmk789_> may help openmoko
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 11 02:59:57 2007