**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 12 02:59:56 2007
Nov 12 03:00:26 <mwester-laptop> Go to an AT&T store (not one of their agents), and  if you shout, I'm told you can get a SIM without a phone...
Nov 12 03:00:39 <ewon> inneresting
Nov 12 03:02:00 <don> ya I thought the feds passed a law that says the cariers have to allow any phone on their network?
Nov 12 03:02:32 <mwester-laptop> I heard that T-Mobile is more cooperative about it than AT&T
Nov 12 03:03:20 <ewon> the 6310i to me is the perfect "just a phone"
Nov 12 03:03:33 <ewon> b&w screen, fast menus, does over a week between charges, has bluetooth
Nov 12 03:04:15 <don> problem is coveage
Nov 12 03:04:47 <don> I'm here in the North East of the U.S. and the only carried with great coverage is Verizon
Nov 12 03:04:58 <don> carrier
Nov 12 03:05:05 <don>  I have to learn how to type
Nov 12 03:06:09 <don> this room is dead
Nov 12 03:06:21 <don> lets get things going
Nov 12 03:06:44 <don> the iPhone is the best and will only be surpased by Android.
Nov 12 03:06:49 <don> :)
Nov 12 03:06:53 <ewon> lawl
Nov 12 03:07:57 * mwester-laptop will probably be purchasing one.
Nov 12 03:08:16 <mwester-laptop> Or more accurately, the wife will probably be purchasing one for her business.
Nov 12 03:08:16 <ewon> which, the iphone?
Nov 12 03:08:25 <mwester-laptop> Yep, the iphone. 
Nov 12 03:08:51 <ewon> I saw an interesting phone in bestbuy - it was some LG, had the formfactor of a communicator. Ran some shitty LG OS though
Nov 12 03:08:52 <mwester-laptop> Graphics arts business; you don't get taken seriously if you don't appear to speak "Apple" everywhere
Nov 12 03:08:56 <don> I would wait on that
Nov 12 03:09:14 <don> I expect another price drop after January
Nov 12 03:09:27 <don> perhaps some incentives?
Nov 12 03:09:56 <mwester-laptop> Yeah, that seems a good thing to do.  Or wait until the next generation iPhone shows up.
Nov 12 03:10:33 <mwester-laptop> The funny thing is that she has no need for any of the features (she only uses the phone and directory on her current smart phone) -- it'
Nov 12 03:10:43 <mwester-laptop> s purely image in an apple-dominated market.
Nov 12 03:10:45 <don> I used it in an Apple store.  Just the web browser and mp3 player but it was slick
Nov 12 03:11:00 <don> have no idea how the phone works
Nov 12 03:12:00 <mwester-laptop> If it can place a call and do text messaging, that's all it needs to do.  The rest is a business expense, and should be charged to "marketing expenses" I suppose.. :)
Nov 12 03:13:08 <don> true enough
Nov 12 03:13:46 <don> I really do hate it's slow edge speeds.
Nov 12 03:13:59 <don> but the WiFi is key
Nov 12 03:14:41 <don> I am shocked that Verizon's newest phones don't have WiFi. 
Nov 12 03:18:35 <ewon> my one concern is how fast you can thumb-type on a touch-screen
Nov 12 03:21:29 <don> thumb type?
Nov 12 03:21:39 <ewon> yeah, like when you're texting on a phone
Nov 12 03:21:40 <don> not going to work well
Nov 12 03:21:49 <ewon> hmmm
Nov 12 03:21:55 <don> here is a video of them demoing the browser
Nov 12 03:21:57 <don> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btY2SFVrOsc
Nov 12 03:22:16 <don> you can see how the typing works
Nov 12 05:16:31 <linux_galore> dam those Irish are clever, now they have created a virus that bypasses an OS be it Linux or Windows, MAC security http://www.flickr.com/photos/kensingtonvictoria/1479962049/
Nov 12 05:16:46 <linux_galore> s/an/any
Nov 12 05:18:17 <PITABoy> that sounds cool
Nov 12 05:18:40 <PITABoy> so it bypasses the OS and does what infects the bootsector?
Nov 12 05:19:36 <linux_galore> PITABoy: click on the link and have a chuckle
Nov 12 05:26:29 <PITABoy> oh that is an old image saw that about 5 years ago
Nov 12 05:29:57 <CM> PITABoy: It's a hard to kill virus too ;)
Nov 12 05:30:37 <PITABoy> yeah especially with the stupidity in the world
Nov 12 05:35:03 * CM throws some bread crumbs to pigeon  ;)
Nov 12 05:35:59 * pigeon jumps around enjoying the bread crumbs while nodding and thanking CM.
Nov 12 05:36:24 <CM> Hehe
Nov 12 05:50:02 <dbmoodb> ah - the neo1973 final release (when it comes out) will support 3g right ?
Nov 12 05:50:30 <raster> the gta-02?
Nov 12 05:50:38 <dbmoodb> yeah
Nov 12 05:50:40 <raster> no
Nov 12 05:50:55 <dbmoodb> why ?....
Nov 12 05:50:56 <raster> gsm/gprs
Nov 12 05:51:04 <dbmoodb> what is 3g then ?
Nov 12 05:51:05 <raster> because we havent updated the gsm chipset
Nov 12 05:51:18 <dbmoodb> oh so you could do it in the future ?
Nov 12 05:51:28 <raster> not to mention that if we do that work it will increase the cost of the phone and dleay it more
Nov 12 05:51:35 <raster> we could
Nov 12 05:51:39 <raster> but not for the gta-02
Nov 12 05:51:42 <raster> we dont know yet
Nov 12 05:51:48 <raster> we may skip 3g and go to 3.5g
Nov 12 05:51:57 <raster> but the cost of suhc a chipset is prohibitive
Nov 12 05:52:00 <dbmoodb> i thought the point was to make a phone that was similar to an iphone
Nov 12 05:52:00 <raster> its very expensive
Nov 12 05:52:05 <dbmoodb> oh so the chipset is the thing ?
Nov 12 05:52:13 <dbmoodb> so edge is the old thing the iphone has right ?
Nov 12 05:52:26 <raster> the iphone isnt 3g
Nov 12 05:52:31 <raster> its really 2.75g
Nov 12 05:52:37 <raster> its gsm/gprs+edge
Nov 12 05:52:39 <dbmoodb> yeah
Nov 12 05:52:47 <raster> edge is justa  high speed gprs
Nov 12 05:52:49 <raster> really
Nov 12 05:52:52 <dbmoodb> so we have a 2.5g in the neo1973 ?
Nov 12 05:52:57 <raster> 3g is where u get to utms
Nov 12 05:53:04 <raster> thats 300-700kbit (in theory)
Nov 12 05:53:04 <dbmoodb>  cellular systems combined with GPRS is often described as "2.5G", that is, a technology between the second (2G) and third (3G) generations of mobile telephony.
Nov 12 05:53:10 <dbmoodb> so ... mmm 
Nov 12 05:53:18 <dbmoodb> is it going to do 2.5 or just plain 2 ?
Nov 12 05:53:22 <raster> 2.5
Nov 12 05:53:25 <raster> gsm/gprs
Nov 12 05:53:32 <raster> no edge
Nov 12 05:53:34 <dbmoodb> nice
Nov 12 05:53:40 <dbmoodb> so edge is just a little bit faster ?
Nov 12 05:53:42 <raster> this keeps the cost down
Nov 12 05:53:47 <raster> so we can spend $ on things like 802.11
Nov 12 05:53:49 <raster> bluetooth
Nov 12 05:53:50 <dbmoodb> sure
Nov 12 05:54:04 <dbmoodb> but i'm sure people would pay a bit more for a 3g phone
Nov 12 05:54:05 <raster> gsm chips, accelerometers, graphics accelerator and vga screen
Nov 12 05:54:11 <dbmoodb> how much more is the 3g chipset ?
Nov 12 05:54:13 <dbmoodb> like a lot lot more ?
Nov 12 05:54:18 <raster> the problem is it will just impact our schedule
Nov 12 05:54:23 <raster> yes a lot more
Nov 12 05:54:41 <raster> you can aonly make money on 3g phones if you sell them in vast numbers
Nov 12 05:54:46 <dbmoodb> sure
Nov 12 05:54:51 <raster> as best i know the only people making real money on 3g are nokia
Nov 12 05:55:02 <raster> and thats mostly because they also get royalties for the 3g technology
Nov 12 05:55:03 <dbmoodb> so the chipset is not capable of 3g
Nov 12 05:55:07 <raster> no its not
Nov 12 05:55:12 <dbmoodb> oh mmm
Nov 12 05:55:28 <raster> a chipset capable of it may add somewhere between 100 to 300 to the price
Nov 12 05:55:58 <raster> and as i said
Nov 12 05:56:00 <raster> delay it even more
Nov 12 05:56:03 <raster> so no 3g
Nov 12 05:56:04 <raster> 2.5g
Nov 12 05:56:10 <raster> thats it
Nov 12 05:56:28 <dbmoodb> oh wow
Nov 12 05:56:34 <dbmoodb> tis a lot
Nov 12 05:56:47 <raster> yes
Nov 12 05:56:49 <dbmoodb> i guess wifi is a lot better any way
Nov 12 05:56:54 <raster> yup
Nov 12 05:57:28 <dbmoodb> especially when you will be able to run all the tool on this phone for your own experimentation only of course 
Nov 12 05:57:36 <pigeon> that's a lot of g-force i tell you.
Nov 12 05:57:56 <dbmoodb> mmm
Nov 12 05:58:10 <pigeon> </joke>
Nov 12 05:58:20 <dbmoodb> ok
Nov 12 05:58:34 <dbmoodb> btw can people still make suggestions 
Nov 12 05:58:57 <dbmoodb> like i have a phone here with a led light on it so i can use it as a torch - think this would be a possible addition ?
Nov 12 05:59:06 <dbmoodb> (maybe at some time in the future)
Nov 12 06:15:23 <CM> dbmoodb: The hardware won't change unless you do it yourself,but the software will :)
Nov 12 06:16:26 <dbmoodb> ok - sure so i will just usb led light up
Nov 12 06:17:53 * CM can't remember if the usb in GTA02 is powered or not
Nov 12 06:18:58 <dbmoodb> think it is
Nov 12 06:19:04 <dbmoodb> * hope it is
Nov 12 06:20:39 <CM> dbmoodb: 100mA powered USB host :)
Nov 12 06:20:46 <dbmoodb> cool
Nov 12 06:22:42 <PITABoy> can someone help me make an initramfs
Nov 12 06:24:03 <dbmoodb> ok that worked
Nov 12 06:57:01 <Batalyx> just toying with an idea, so I'd like to know, if X11 and gtk-stuff is taken off of openmoko, it seems that libmokocore and libmokopim would also go away, am I right?
Nov 12 06:57:36 <Batalyx> (referring to OpenMokoFramework diagaram on wiki)
Nov 12 06:58:54 <Batalyx> and the idea I'm playing with is that would it be possible/feasible to make a gui other than X11 on top of openmoko.
Nov 12 07:00:44 <PITABoy> why do you want to change it?
Nov 12 07:01:10 <PITABoy> i can see why you dont want X
Nov 12 07:01:18 <PITABoy> but why do we need to chang gtk
Nov 12 07:01:36 <CM> Batalyx: Well, pavel has his tui I think, text user interface
Nov 12 07:01:40 <CM> :)
Nov 12 07:01:53 <CM> Don't ask me how to type for it though ;)
Nov 12 07:02:21 <Batalyx> PITABoy: just to see if it's possible :)
Nov 12 07:02:28 <PITABoy> oh
Nov 12 07:02:34 <Batalyx> CM: slowly? ;)
Nov 12 07:02:36 <PITABoy> it should be possible
Nov 12 07:03:16 <PITABoy> I mean there should be considering that there is qt based guis
Nov 12 07:03:23 <PITABoy> or you could try to use java
Nov 12 07:03:34 <Batalyx> *blech* for java :)
Nov 12 07:04:52 <Batalyx> I think it could give some new ideas of how to implement GUIs for phones. I find myself thinking to much in terms of desktop computer GUIs now, and Neo1973 is not desktop computer ;)
Nov 12 07:05:48 <JohnMahowald> Java ME?
Nov 12 07:06:53 <Batalyx> and to be honest, I think there's little ground for OM to conquer there. There was some study made in Finland, where they asked elder people what would they like their phone to be like.
Nov 12 07:08:03 <josch> can someone tell me how I compile a specific kernel module for openmoko? in my case: uinput?
Nov 12 07:08:41 <Batalyx> now openmoko + gui-tests -> phone for all ages?
Nov 12 07:08:58 <PITABoy> you should be able to use any kernel
Nov 12 07:10:50 <Batalyx> for example, as openmoko has no keypad, the touch screen can be used with big enough (or small enough) keys, only problem being that theres no feeling of pressing a button.
Nov 12 07:11:15 <Batalyx> but the "buttons" could be faces of the people at phonebook
Nov 12 07:11:41 <Batalyx> etc etc (nothing ground breaking, but certainly worth trying, I think...)
Nov 12 07:13:30 <Tronic> Is anyone working on speech recognition or voice commands for OpenMoko?
Nov 12 07:13:30 <CM> josch: I think you'll have to look in the oe wiki for that. I assume you mean changing the .config for openmoko-linux or?
Nov 12 07:14:14 <josch> CM: don't know how to do that
Nov 12 07:14:37 <CM> I don't know either ;)
Nov 12 07:14:43 <josch> CM: on my host pc I have to do modprobe uinput to use my bt keyboard
Nov 12 07:15:13 <CM> josch: Hmm.. torpor used his bt keyboard on the neo without any trouble
Nov 12 07:15:33 <CM> Just set it up with bluez as a normal hid
Nov 12 07:15:36 <josch> CM: i know but on mine I have to do this
Nov 12 07:15:55 <josch> id I do hidd --connect I get
Nov 12 07:16:10 <josch> "no such file or directory" message
Nov 12 07:16:11 <CM> Ok. Hmm.. Then you need that module compiled for the kernel, and if that's not done by default, you'll need to change the .config
Nov 12 07:16:34 <josch> looking into the source it tells me that this means that there is uinput missing
Nov 12 07:16:42 <CM> It's somehow done by running make menuconfig in the tree somewhere,b ut I don't know how. The wiki should say
Nov 12 07:16:47 <josch> on my host pc  it only worked with modprobe uinput
Nov 12 07:16:50 <CM> *nod*
Nov 12 07:17:09 <josch> mkey will serach
Nov 12 07:23:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1005 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 12 07:23:01 <cdbot2> * * U-boot passthrough does not work for current gsmd
Nov 12 07:23:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1005
Nov 12 07:42:37 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 12 07:58:06 <josch> hrm... found nothing...
Nov 12 07:58:48 <josch> anybody an idea how to build an ipkg containing  kernel module?
Nov 12 08:00:40 <CM> josch: Here's someone who might know ;)
Nov 12 08:00:53 <CM> XorA: Morning :)
Nov 12 08:01:06 <josch> XorA, hi! can you help me?
Nov 12 08:01:24 <XorA> josch: wait a sec, Ill get my cranium saw :-D
Nov 12 08:01:40 <XorA> josch: wazzup?
Nov 12 08:02:00 <CM> He wants to add a module to the .config for linux-openmoko
Nov 12 08:02:12 <josch> XorA, for my bt keyboard I have to use uinput as a kernel module
Nov 12 08:02:38 <josch> on my host pc the keyboard only works when doing modprobe uinput
Nov 12 08:05:29 <josch> (looked up cranium in wikipedia - but what is a cranium saw??)
Nov 12 08:05:55 <XorA> josch: saw for opening up a cranium :-)
Nov 12 08:05:55 <doc|home> hehehehe
Nov 12 08:06:09 <doc|home> think .... hannibal
Nov 12 08:06:10 <Demonax> Has anyone got mplayer going well on the new Neo1973?
Nov 12 08:06:16 <josch> Demitar, I have
Nov 12 08:06:20 <XorA> abraxa_ did
Nov 12 08:06:42 <josch> abraxa__ is hacking the media player that uses mplayer
Nov 12 08:06:44 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 12 08:06:53 <josch> but you can use mplayer standalone
Nov 12 08:07:05 <Demonax> Nice, would be neat to see a video of that running.
Nov 12 08:07:37 <josch> Demonax, I tried to make one but my cam is too bad
Nov 12 08:07:50 <josch> Demonax, but mpeg4 is crisp and clear in qvga
Nov 12 08:08:08 <josch> Demonax, full fps - no problems it the video is in the correct size
Nov 12 08:08:17 <josch> s/it/if/
Nov 12 08:08:18 <apt> josch meant: Demonax, full fps - no problems if the video is in the correct size
Nov 12 08:08:23 <Demonax> qvga? I thought the neo1973 did vga.
Nov 12 08:08:48 <josch> Demonax, yeah, but a 320x240 video in vga would be to small to watch
Nov 12 08:09:00 <josch> so you change the resolution
Nov 12 08:09:13 <josch> to QVGA and then your video looks great
Nov 12 08:09:35 <Demonax> Ah :-) Well at 2.8" who cares.
Nov 12 08:10:00 <josch> Demonax, there is rally NO differnece in quality
Nov 12 08:10:33 <XorA> josch: I am going to enable uinput in default config as I think it should be there
Nov 12 08:10:50 <josch> XorA, wow, this would be great
Nov 12 08:11:05 <josch> XorA, what can I do for now?
Nov 12 08:11:19 <XorA> josch: wait 20 mins and Ill check in the new defconfig
Nov 12 08:11:27 <josch> XorA, thx!! :-D
Nov 12 08:12:28 <CM> josch: See, XorA is a nice guy ;)
Nov 12 08:12:41 <josch> CM, ^^
Nov 12 08:15:16 * ScaredyCat mutters about mountain view pussies not working at midnight
Nov 12 08:23:11 <CM> ScaredyCat: Don't be sunch an Android fan boy! :P
Nov 12 08:23:20 <CM> *such
Nov 12 08:24:04 <ScaredyCat> pfft, I went to be last night while you sat in that channel chatting away... you big fan boy 
Nov 12 08:24:19 <ScaredyCat> bed
Nov 12 08:24:21 * daMaestro searchs logs for hotplug rules
Nov 12 08:24:52 <CM> ~logs
Nov 12 08:24:53 <apt> i guess logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
Nov 12 08:26:06 <daMaestro> thanks.. i log locally and found them
Nov 12 08:57:45 <XorA> josch: done, update and rebuild
Nov 12 08:58:02 <josch> XorA, that was quick!! thx a lot!
Nov 12 08:59:52 <josch> XorA, if I use the new image now - I have nothing to do than modprobe uinput?
Nov 12 09:00:27 <XorA> josch: youll need to copy kernel-module-uinput*.ipk to device then install it
Nov 12 09:00:44 <josch> wow, that is even easier!
Nov 12 09:05:47 <josch> moin fgau 
Nov 12 09:06:16 <fgau> josch: morning
Nov 12 09:11:18 <josch> Packaged contents of kernel-module-uinput into /media/data/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/neo1973/kernel-module-uinput_2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8_neo1973.ipk
Nov 12 09:26:00 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3389 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c): 
Nov 12 09:26:00 <CIA-13> openmoko: Patch by: Milko Krachounov <exabyte@3mhz.net>
Nov 12 09:26:00 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_hold_timeout),
Nov 12 09:26:00 <CIA-13> openmoko: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed): Automatically free the allocated data
Nov 12 09:26:00 <CIA-13> openmoko: structure when the timeout source is
Nov 12 09:26:04 <CIA-13> openmoko: destroyed
Nov 12 09:29:43 <torpor> yo
Nov 12 09:32:07 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3390 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (atcmd.c unsolicited.c): keeping track of current registration state internally in gsmd. Without this the"gsmd->dev_state.registered" variable had bogus values. (Andrew)
Nov 12 09:33:37 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3391 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: gsmd: Adding hang up control(Andrew & Tick)
Nov 12 09:35:04 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3392 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: gsmd: return some meaningful value from set_baudrate (Andrew & Tick)
Nov 12 09:35:55 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3393 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/shell.c: gsmd: adding sleep mode into libgsmd-tool shell mode(Tick)
Nov 12 09:36:43 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03tick * r3394 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 3 dirs): gsmd: cleaning some dummy codes (Tick)
Nov 12 10:04:46 <daMaestro> what package has ntpdate?
Nov 12 10:05:09 <daMaestro> ah.. it would be ntpdate
Nov 12 10:05:11 <daMaestro> neat
Nov 12 10:05:21 <daMaestro> finally.. the right date :-D
Nov 12 10:06:09 <daMaestro> ok.. if anyone wants a sexy hotplug script
Nov 12 10:06:11 <daMaestro> http://f3dora.org/paste/476
Nov 12 10:14:26 <Psi> do ya need a special kernel for the qtopia rootfs jffs2 files on http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ 
Nov 12 10:16:10 <CM> Psi: I'm guessing the latest one works
Nov 12 10:17:56 <Psi> ok ill give it a go :) thanks
Nov 12 10:36:17 <Balachmar> Hi, I have been trying to compile the software under ubuntu for use in qemu before, but that didn't work
Nov 12 10:36:35 <Balachmar> Now I am trying to get the updates and try again, but I get an error on updating
Nov 12 10:36:53 <Balachmar> svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/matchbox/!svn/vcc/default'
Nov 12 10:36:54 <Balachmar> svn: Cannot replace a directory from within
Nov 12 10:37:05 <Balachmar> Anyone knows how to fix this?
Nov 12 10:39:40 <mickeyl> blame upstream
Nov 12 10:39:44 <mickeyl> then remove the svn directory
Nov 12 10:39:46 <mickeyl> and let OE recheckout
Nov 12 10:41:09 <Balachmar> was that in reaction to my question?
Nov 12 10:41:23 <Balachmar> because if it is I still don't know what you want me to do
Nov 12 10:41:32 <mickeyl> hmm
Nov 12 10:41:34 <mickeyl> ok
Nov 12 10:41:38 <mickeyl> blame upstream = curse OHand
Nov 12 10:41:53 <mickeyl> remove the svn directory = rm $DL_DIR/svn/matchbox (or so)
Nov 12 10:41:55 <CM> ~curse o-hand
Nov 12 10:41:58 <mickeyl> let OE recheckout... well
Nov 12 10:42:03 * Balachmar curses OHand :)
Nov 12 10:42:05 <apt> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, o-hand !
Nov 12 10:42:06 <mickeyl> = just try again
Nov 12 10:43:17 <Balachmar> Can't seem to find the svn dir
Nov 12 10:43:45 <mickeyl> mickey@andromeda:/local/pkg/sources$ ls -l svn/svn.o-hand.com/
Nov 12 10:44:26 <ScaredyCat> hey mickeyl ...
Nov 12 10:44:31 <mickeyl> greetings ScaredyCat 
Nov 12 10:44:37 <CM> Balachmar: As mickeyl said, when you're in your moko dir, look in sources/svn/svn.o-hand.com/repos/
Nov 12 10:44:48 <ScaredyCat> btw u-boot and booting from sd seems broken...
Nov 12 10:44:58 <mickeyl> mwester-laptop: is your "power off gsm" patch somewhere yet?
Nov 12 10:45:00 <ScaredyCat> (still)
Nov 12 10:45:13 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: even in the august snapshot?
Nov 12 10:45:16 <ScaredyCat> ya
Nov 12 10:45:19 <ScaredyCat> well
Nov 12 10:45:20 <mickeyl> bummer
Nov 12 10:45:34 <Balachmar> maybe that isn't there because I was using these directions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu
Nov 12 10:45:41 <ScaredyCat> well, I found a u-boot that works
Nov 12 10:45:45 <mickeyl> which one?
Nov 12 10:45:53 <ScaredyCat> from August 12th
Nov 12 10:45:56 <ScaredyCat> lemmie get the numbers
Nov 12 10:46:28 <ScaredyCat> 1.2.0-moko9_r13_0_2632_0
Nov 12 10:46:46 <mickeyl> Could you please add that finding to 799?
Nov 12 10:46:48 <mickeyl> !ombug 799
Nov 12 10:46:49 <cdbot2> * * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 12 10:46:50 <cdbot2> * * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards
Nov 12 10:46:51 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799
Nov 12 10:47:26 <CM> u-boot really needs to be fixed soon or GTA02 will have a lot of unhappy new hackers.. 
Nov 12 10:52:22 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3395 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 12 10:52:22 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.c: (moko_dialer_textview_init),
Nov 12 10:52:22 <CIA-13> openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_set_color):
Nov 12 10:52:22 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.h:
Nov 12 10:52:22 <CIA-13> openmoko: Remove cursor indicator and always add/remove characters from the end of
Nov 12 10:52:24 <CIA-13> openmoko: the dialer display. Closes bug 940.
Nov 12 10:53:37 <ScaredyCat> done
Nov 12 10:53:43 <ScaredyCat> a little slow, but done
Nov 12 10:53:50 <mickeyl> thanks!
Nov 12 10:54:27 <ScaredyCat> torpor is a little unhappy though
Nov 12 10:54:39 <ScaredyCat> bricked his neo trying to find a good u-boot
Nov 12 10:57:07 <mickeyl> no access to a debug board?
Nov 12 10:57:31 <mickeyl> torpor: where are you located?
Nov 12 10:57:32 <XorA> mickeyl: he does, but his FPC connectors both ends snapped
Nov 12 10:57:42 <mickeyl> snapped?
Nov 12 10:57:56 <XorA> mickeyl: the black clips I beleive snapped off
Nov 12 10:58:00 <mickeyl> aargh
Nov 12 10:58:12 <XorA> so nothing to hold the FPC in place in the connector
Nov 12 10:58:15 <mickeyl> darn
Nov 12 10:58:26 <mickeyl> i could send him a new debug board, but not a new neo
Nov 12 10:58:36 <ScaredyCat> hehe... dang...
Nov 12 10:58:55 <XorA> we need a .eu soldering lab for ill Neos
Nov 12 10:58:59 * ScaredyCat tries to reaffix his connectors
Nov 12 10:59:09 <XorA> the repairs are fairly simple for a soldering tech
Nov 12 11:32:32 <Ghiottone|work> hello
Nov 12 11:37:35 <josch> hey guys!! surprise new bt keyboard problem! :-)
Nov 12 11:37:48 <josch> please have a look at it here: http://pastebin.ca/770540
Nov 12 11:38:35 <josch> as you can see, I can use the keyboard on my ubuntu now but and with uinput the error message on my neo went away but if I hit some keys on the neo nothing happens
Nov 12 11:39:07 <josch> what does my host system have that openmoko does not concerning bt keyboard input?
Nov 12 11:49:35 <josch> where can I find out which kernel modules are used on my host pc when I successfully connect there?
Nov 12 11:50:37 <lukaszb> josch: lsmod?
Nov 12 11:51:45 <josch> lukaszb, but lsmod will give me all the loaded modules
Nov 12 11:52:05 <josch> how can I find out which one I need?
Nov 12 11:52:23 <josch> I don't even know if this is because a missing kernel module
Nov 12 11:55:36 <dpap> Has GTA01Bv4 Global potition system?
Nov 12 11:56:05 <dpap> *position
Nov 12 11:56:43 <ScaredyCat> it has a gps chip, but you can't use it - yet
Nov 12 11:57:11 <flexd> unless you are some sort of uber gps-chip-driver making genious
Nov 12 11:57:48 <josch> or unless you are taking illegal actions
Nov 12 11:58:14 <flexd> I understand om has to go the legal way
Nov 12 11:58:22 <flexd> and has to live by those rules and stuff
Nov 12 11:58:32 <ScaredyCat> josch: well, technically that doesn't have to be the case
Nov 12 11:58:51 <josch> yeah "technically"
Nov 12 11:58:53 <flexd> but im not gonna object if someone random, not-affiliated with om would somehow get us a driver/make a driver, i woudlnt mind. :p
Nov 12 11:59:00 <ScaredyCat> no
Nov 12 11:59:04 <ScaredyCat> technically.
Nov 12 11:59:16 <ScaredyCat> om accidentally distributed gllin to some devs
Nov 12 11:59:19 <dpap> u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 Is this tha gps chip?
Nov 12 11:59:45 <josch> ScaredyCat, I know gllin is floating around somewhere in the net - some have it
Nov 12 11:59:47 <flexd> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS
Nov 12 11:59:55 <ScaredyCat> since they aren't under nda etc... they, in theory at least, wouldn't be breaking any laws
Nov 12 12:00:49 <ScaredyCat> josch: there's a difference between it 'floating around the net' and a genuine accidental distribution
Nov 12 12:00:53 <josch> okay - then my thoughts were wrong... what exactly prevents them from distributing an OSS driver if they have not signed an nda
Nov 12 12:01:10 <ScaredyCat> om are under the nda etc
Nov 12 12:01:30 <josch> ScaredyCat, but because of this accidental distribution it is floating around
Nov 12 12:01:38 <ScaredyCat> and afaik there was never source floating about
Nov 12 12:01:44 <ScaredyCat> just a bin
Nov 12 12:01:49 <josch> ScaredyCat, yeah, no source
Nov 12 12:02:10 <josch> so what exactly is illegal about distributing the binary?
Nov 12 12:02:27 <flexd> it's copyrighted to someone else i assume..?
Nov 12 12:02:31 <ScaredyCat> yes
Nov 12 12:02:32 <flexd> and they say no
Nov 12 12:02:41 <ScaredyCat> basically
Nov 12 12:03:05 <ScaredyCat> there was also an issue of the original owner being purchased by another company
Nov 12 12:03:16 <josch> oh
Nov 12 12:03:39 <dpap_> >	u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 Is this gps chip?
Nov 12 12:03:55 <josch> dpap, it's the chip for gta02
Nov 12 12:04:14 <mickeyl> the gps chip in gta02 has no problems whatsoever, since it's an autonomous chip
Nov 12 12:04:15 <josch> dpap, gta01 uses a hammerhead chip - it's all in the wiki
Nov 12 12:04:39 <mickeyl> gta01 gps is what gives us legal nightmares. pending OpenMoko Inc. writing an EULA. no, don't ask me why it takes so long :/
Nov 12 12:05:09 <josch> mickeyl, what is wrong about someone posting an url where another one put his "illegal" gllin binary?
Nov 12 12:05:15 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: I'd go for a straight swap instead.... gta01 for a gta02 :)
Nov 12 12:05:29 <mickeyl> josch: you mean other than that it's illegal?
Nov 12 12:05:34 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 12 12:05:39 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: heh
Nov 12 12:05:43 <josch> it's only illegal in some countries
Nov 12 12:05:56 <mickeyl> well, do what you want to do, but don't expect me blessing it
Nov 12 12:05:57 <josch> if I host in timbuktu it's probably not illegal
Nov 12 12:05:58 <mjr> linking isn't illegal in places still preserving some sanity
Nov 12 12:06:09 <ScaredyCat> norway?
Nov 12 12:06:13 <mjr> which is, to be fair, not every jurisdiction
Nov 12 12:06:28 <dpap_> why a gps chip is illegal?
Nov 12 12:06:36 <mjr> dpap_, get a clue
Nov 12 12:06:37 <ScaredyCat> it's not the chi
Nov 12 12:06:37 <ScaredyCat> p
Nov 12 12:06:43 <ScaredyCat> it's the software
Nov 12 12:06:48 * ScaredyCat slaps mjr
Nov 12 12:06:48 <flexd> someone made a driver for it
Nov 12 12:06:53 <ScaredyCat> get some manners
Nov 12 12:06:55 <flexd> they want money for it/to keep it for themselves
Nov 12 12:07:04 <flexd> aka om cant give it out for free
Nov 12 12:07:13 <mickeyl> we can
Nov 12 12:07:18 <mickeyl> we just need to include an EULA
Nov 12 12:07:40 <mickeyl> "just"
Nov 12 12:07:42 <flexd> when you say EULA, isnt that like... a tiny text document with legal stuff?
Nov 12 12:07:43 <dpap_> when GTA02 will be realesed?
Nov 12 12:07:59 <ScaredyCat> to prevent reverse engineering mickeyl?
Nov 12 12:08:17 <ScaredyCat> I say 'prevent' ...
Nov 12 12:08:20 <mickeyl> no
Nov 12 12:08:23 <josch> I may have understood it wrong but is the only thing we are waiting for that FIC releases an EULA???
Nov 12 12:08:30 <mickeyl> to adhere with the terms under which we got the right to distribute
Nov 12 12:08:41 <mickeyl> i have no idea what's written in that EULA and i don't care
Nov 12 12:08:43 <mickeyl> i just want to get it
Nov 12 12:08:48 <mickeyl> so that i can distribute it
Nov 12 12:08:54 <mickeyl> and you guys can finally use gps
Nov 12 12:08:55 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Nov 12 12:08:56 <josch> wow, this really s****...
Nov 12 12:09:10 <josch> you mean: use it legally...
Nov 12 12:09:17 <ynezz> use it at all
Nov 12 12:09:26 <XorA> josch: well 50 people can use it legally :-)
Nov 12 12:09:44 <josch> XorA, hurray! :-)
Nov 12 12:09:45 <ScaredyCat> can't you just employ us all :)
Nov 12 12:09:49 <dpap> Only this plz:When GTA02 will be realesed?
Nov 12 12:10:02 <mjr> see topic
Nov 12 12:10:10 <XorA> ScaredyCat: yes, but the corporate branding is a bit painful :-D
Nov 12 12:10:16 <ScaredyCat> when it's completed dpap - ie we don;t know
Nov 12 12:10:25 <ScaredyCat> XorA: heheheh
Nov 12 12:10:55 <josch> dpap, http://www.google.de/search?q=when+it's+done
Nov 12 12:11:17 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: i'd love to
Nov 12 12:11:19 <mickeyl> (employ)
Nov 12 12:11:34 <mickeyl> perhaps once I have more power
Nov 12 12:11:35 <dpap> I saw the topic but it says in Dec..Will be in the middle of December?
Nov 12 12:11:37 <josch> wohooo! employ me!!
Nov 12 12:11:50 <josch> dpap, WE DO NOT KNOW
Nov 12 12:11:59 * ScaredyCat deploys wmd's near josch
Nov 12 12:12:08 <XorA> dpap: I would guess a jolly bearded guy in red might get lucky :-)
Nov 12 12:12:27 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: you'd need a bigger office :)
Nov 12 12:12:39 <XorA> ScaredyCat: and padded cells
Nov 12 12:12:45 <dpap> What is missing from Software for me to create???;-)
Nov 12 12:12:54 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: don't worry about the office, it's large enough. 
Nov 12 12:13:19 <mickeyl> seriously, if OM is still alive in 12 months from now, I would expect us to hire more guys
Nov 12 12:13:21 * mjr wonders about a Neo-optimized food diary
Nov 12 12:13:30 <josch> well, can anybody have a look at my bt keyboard problem again? I think only a kernel module is missing but I do not know wich one: http://pastebin.ca/770540
Nov 12 12:13:42 <ScaredyCat> you not expecting it to last 12 months? 
Nov 12 12:14:05 <mickeyl> i do
Nov 12 12:14:16 <mickeyl> it's just that I'm becoming a pessimist slowly
Nov 12 12:14:17 <ScaredyCat> or was that just a 'something else might replace om on fix devices'
Nov 12 12:14:19 <mickeyl> Laf0rge has infected me
Nov 12 12:14:23 <ScaredyCat> ahh ok...
Nov 12 12:14:30 <ScaredyCat> roflmao
Nov 12 12:14:38 <roh> ScaredyCat also it makes no sense just throwing more people all the time..
Nov 12 12:14:58 <ScaredyCat> I always suspected Laf0rge was a virus
Nov 12 12:14:59 <roh> development actually gets slower when the rate of joining devels is too high
Nov 12 12:15:15 <ScaredyCat> roh, yes, I know... 
Nov 12 12:15:20 <ScaredyCat> slower and more expensive
Nov 12 12:16:02 <dcordes> what's the reason for getting pessimistic?
Nov 12 12:16:18 <ScaredyCat> lack of coffee....
Nov 12 12:16:29 * ScaredyCat puts kettle on
Nov 12 12:16:33 <roh> dcordes no reason.. just a lot developers who have lawyers standing on their feet too often..
Nov 12 12:16:37 <roh>  ;)
Nov 12 12:17:07 <roh> but thats the pain they need to endure to get the stuff out to you.. *ducks*
Nov 12 12:17:28 * flexd strikes low
Nov 12 12:18:10 <dpap> Is neo1973 Java enabled?
Nov 12 12:18:16 <lukaszb> How long does building OM from scratch takes? /me wonders whether it will finish today
Nov 12 12:18:22 <ScaredyCat> roh: the good news should be that once it's done one time, and gpl'd then the issues are over :)
Nov 12 12:18:29 * raster shudders at the buzzword questions
Nov 12 12:18:40 <josch> lukaszb, 6h on my sys
Nov 12 12:18:43 <mickeyl> lukaszb: depends on your machine. openmoko-image takes 3 hours here
Nov 12 12:18:55 * ScaredyCat steals mickeyl's machine
Nov 12 12:19:00 <mickeyl> :)
Nov 12 12:19:06 <ScaredyCat> 8 hours from scratch for me
Nov 12 12:19:08 <mickeyl> nah, it's new. let me have fun with it for a couple of months
Nov 12 12:19:14 <roh> ScaredyCat well.. not really.. its always tripping the rift when you follow an nda you signed with some hw-vendor but are allowed to write open drivers ;)
Nov 12 12:19:14 <ScaredyCat> hehe
Nov 12 12:19:37 <flexd> lukaszb: what specs your machine got? mine went trough the night
Nov 12 12:20:25 <raster> my machine is a cheese popsicle
Nov 12 12:20:41 <ScaredyCat> mmmmm cheese
Nov 12 12:20:48 <dpap> Leopard will not have java 1.6.Will OM have?I can't find any paper in wiki about Java....
Nov 12 12:20:52 <raster> i.e. it loves to not build OM
Nov 12 12:21:18 <lukaszb> flexd: P4 2.8GHz & 512MB
Nov 12 12:21:19 <raster> dpap: thats so far outside our focus right now.
Nov 12 12:21:38 <raster> lukaszb: go make a lot of cups of coffee
Nov 12 12:21:54 <raster> lukaszb: actually. take a flight to brazil and pick up some fresh coffee, come back
Nov 12 12:21:55 <raster> make it
Nov 12 12:21:58 <raster> then it'll be done
Nov 12 12:22:19 <ScaredyCat> seen the new airbus?
Nov 12 12:22:21 <josch> lukaszb, hope you have turned on multi processor usage?
Nov 12 12:22:23 <dpap> but OM i flexible right?anyone will can put java in?
Nov 12 12:22:31 <ScaredyCat> 1st class in that is sweet
Nov 12 12:22:54 <raster> dpap:  bingo
Nov 12 12:22:55 <lukaszb> josch: sure ;-)
Nov 12 12:22:59 <zash> dpap: i think there is ppl working on that, check projects.openmoko.org
Nov 12 12:23:09 <raster> dpap: if we dont have time/focus for it
Nov 12 12:23:09 <lukaszb> Good that I've started this on screen.
Nov 12 12:23:11 <raster> anyone can do it
Nov 12 12:23:49 * raster wonders why anyone would bother with java when they can use the pureness and sexiness of C instead
Nov 12 12:24:19 <flexd> lukaszb: i used like, 6hours with a amd 4000+ single core 2gb ram
Nov 12 12:24:27 <flexd> or wait, wrong machine :/
Nov 12 12:24:36 <flexd> http://flexd.ath.cx/.phpsysinfo/
Nov 12 12:24:37 <flexd> that
Nov 12 12:24:45 <flexd> was the machine compiling om
Nov 12 12:25:10 * josch likes to quickly build an gtk UI with python and uses c for all the real worj
Nov 12 12:26:02 <mjr> python <3
Nov 12 12:27:55 <flexd> python <3
Nov 12 12:28:15 * mjr 's quick and dirty Neo-remote is in python
Nov 12 12:28:20 <mjr> probably my future apps too
Nov 12 12:29:19 <josch> as long as it's GUI I will use python, if there is low level fast work to do C and for web development perl
Nov 12 12:30:09 <josch> <= yeah I also could use python for the last one but I'm especially in love with perl - and it's faster
Nov 12 12:30:23 * mjr doesn't do low level fast work that much :]
Nov 12 12:30:36 <josch> so... is there anybody caring about my puny problem? http://pastebin.ca/770540
Nov 12 12:30:51 <flexd> mjr: neo remote?
Nov 12 12:31:25 <mjr> http://mjr.iki.fi/software/remote-0.9.0.tar.gz
Nov 12 12:31:34 <mjr> it'd need cleanup and stuff...
Nov 12 12:32:57 <mjr> josch, you do have something that takes keyboard input up on the neo, right? :]
Nov 12 12:33:19 <josch> mjr, ??
Nov 12 12:33:23 <josch> I use ssh for now
Nov 12 12:35:02 <josch> mjr, what do you mean?
Nov 12 12:35:06 <mjr> yes, but when you try to type something, you do have a terminal or somesuch up in the neo
Nov 12 12:35:16 <josch> of course I do
Nov 12 12:35:26 <mjr> just checking...
Nov 12 12:35:29 <josch> :-/
Nov 12 12:35:44 <josch> I'm not that stupid...
Nov 12 12:37:12 <josch> mjr, you can also see that the line "Connected to 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12 on channel 1" is not appearing
Nov 12 12:37:30 <josch> on the neo but the keyboard led says: connected
Nov 12 12:38:08 <josch> this is the reason I suspected a kernel module missing
Nov 12 12:38:09 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03olv * r3396 10/developers/olv/xserver/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: XVideo support and some code cleanup, still very unstable
Nov 12 12:39:00 <mjr> mine doesn't say connected either
Nov 12 12:39:05 <mjr> probably a hidd version difference
Nov 12 12:39:18 <mjr> does work though
Nov 12 12:39:20 <mjr> see dmesg?
Nov 12 12:39:21 <jserv--> hey, XVideo support!
Nov 12 12:39:26 <mjr> "<6>input: Broadcom Keyboard as /class/input/input3
Nov 12 12:39:41 <josch> mjr, but your keyboard is not needing uinput isn't it?
Nov 12 12:39:53 <olv> jserv--: I should put underscores around _unstable_
Nov 12 12:39:55 <ScaredyCat> didn't someone get it working ok wiht an apple keyboard...
Nov 12 12:39:56 <mjr> mm, apparently not
Nov 12 12:40:11 <jserv--> olv, unstable here is stable for OM.
Nov 12 12:40:13 <jserv--> :P
Nov 12 12:40:36 <mjr> which is nice since I don't have an uinput module on my neo
Nov 12 12:40:53 <josch> ScaredyCat, yeah - I head some trouble since my keyboard was not working after I took the steps described in the wiki
Nov 12 12:41:10 <josch> apparently my keyboard also needs no pairing
Nov 12 12:41:18 <mjr> mine neither
Nov 12 12:41:31 <josch> the solution to connect was to modprobe uinput - I wrote it in the wiki
Nov 12 12:41:58 <josch> now the first error "Can't open input device: No such file or directory (2)" has gone away
Nov 12 12:42:27 <josch> but atm nothing happens - the keyboard led shows "connected" but contrary to my ubuntu nothing else happens
Nov 12 12:42:58 <josch> in ubuntu I had the same problems thet where solved with modprobe uinput - but afterwards it worked
Nov 12 12:43:02 <josch> not so on openmoko
Nov 12 12:43:48 <josch> my problem: I can do lsmod and see what modules are loaded on my host but I do not see which one are needed for my keyboard to work
Nov 12 12:44:04 <josch> I even do not know if this problem is about missing kernel modules
Nov 12 12:44:54 <josch> mjr, the uinput module was added to openmoko today by XorA for me
Nov 12 12:45:09 <josch> (and of course all the others needing it)
Nov 12 12:45:13 <XorA> gah, I get all the blame :-D
Nov 12 12:45:23 <josch> XorA, now, you get the praise!!
Nov 12 12:45:38 <josch> my first problem is gone - next to solve
Nov 12 12:46:03 <josch> s/now/no/
Nov 12 12:46:30 <XorA> time for lunch
Nov 12 12:46:31 <flexd> so
Nov 12 12:46:37 <flexd> how much does bluetooth keyboards cost anyway? ;o
Nov 12 12:47:16 <josch> flexd, a lot... I got lukky and found a 25€ bt keyboard on ebay
Nov 12 12:47:40 <mjr> the "manully using GPRS" stuff on the wiki presumably assumes that gpsd is off?
Nov 12 12:48:15 * mjr would like a terminal out of this
Nov 12 12:48:33 <josch> mjr, what terminal?
Nov 12 12:50:26 <mjr> in the general sense of I'd like a mobile terminal out of neo, bt keyboard, openmoko-terminal, gprs
Nov 12 12:50:44 <mjr> now checking out the gprs
Nov 12 13:13:46 <mjr> whee, I have gprs
Nov 12 13:19:12 * mypapit quit!!!!!
Nov 12 13:20:57 <josch> mjr, xplain!
Nov 12 13:21:37 <mjr> what?
Nov 12 13:22:40 <josch> mjr, how you did it
Nov 12 13:22:48 <josch> everything as in the wiki?
Nov 12 13:23:10 * josch can hardly believe this
Nov 12 13:24:10 <Balachmar> Hi, I just installed openmoko under qemu from svn
Nov 12 13:24:36 <mjr> Pretty much everything, though I did configure the lcp-echo-interval to 0 in light of my previous experiences. And killed gsmd before starting pppd, 'course, which is a shame to have to do for now but anyway
Nov 12 13:25:06 <mjr> other than that, just replaced the pin and apn in the chatscript really
Nov 12 13:25:25 <xzcvczx> g
Nov 12 13:25:27 <xzcvczx> oops
Nov 12 13:29:24 <Stephmw> xzcvczx: haha! ousted!
Nov 12 13:30:22 <xzcvczx> +phone :P
Nov 12 13:32:37 <josch> what's the difference between ohci_hcd, ehci_hcd and uhci_hcd kernel modules?
Nov 12 13:33:24 <Stephmw> different chipsets iirc, no?
Nov 12 13:35:10 <LittleIdiot> did i mention that i hate the pulseaudio api? ;)
Nov 12 13:35:52 <LittleIdiot> i wonder what the reasons were for choosing pulseaudio
Nov 12 13:42:37 <Balachmar> I have a little trouble running openmoko in qemy from svn
Nov 12 13:42:54 <Balachmar> I get a prompt like this: GTA01Bv4 #   
Nov 12 13:43:00 <Balachmar> But what should I do now?
Nov 12 13:44:57 <ScaredyCat> thats the u-boot prompt
Nov 12 13:45:12 <ScaredyCat> like you see on ACM0
Nov 12 13:46:44 <Balachmar> yes, but what should I do to run the visual emulation?
Nov 12 13:48:33 <ScaredyCat> dunno, seems odd to me that you see that... but I don;t use qemu... 
Nov 12 13:48:46 <ScaredyCat> not sure if there's a boot command in u-boot... 
Nov 12 13:48:49 <ScaredyCat> tried it?
Nov 12 13:49:43 <Balachmar> ooh, after a while it terminates
Nov 12 13:49:53 <Balachmar> openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 16846 Terminated              $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
Nov 12 13:49:53 <Balachmar> U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.
Nov 12 13:50:59 <ScaredyCat> the clue should be in the: -serial stdio -nographic 
Nov 12 13:52:56 <Balachmar> so, what should I do to get it running then?
Nov 12 13:52:57 <ScaredyCat> looks like it was trying to flash it 
Nov 12 13:53:13 <ScaredyCat> I dunno, 1 sec
Nov 12 13:53:16 * ScaredyCat pokes  CM
Nov 12 13:54:17 * ScaredyCat elbows CM in the head
Nov 12 13:54:46 <mwester> mickey|lunch:  http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1003
Nov 12 13:55:27 <mwester> Gotta run, have to go visit a customer today.
Nov 12 13:56:50 <CM> ScaredyCat: !?!
Nov 12 13:56:56 <CM> I'm busy slacking here!
Nov 12 13:57:14 <ScaredyCat> help Balachmar with quemu then :)
Nov 12 13:57:20 <ScaredyCat> qemu
Nov 12 13:57:33 <Balachmar> :)
Nov 12 13:58:23 <CM> Balachmar: Have you rebuilt qemu recently?
Nov 12 13:58:48 <Balachmar> CM: I just installed it from svn
Nov 12 13:58:59 <Balachmar> using: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU
Nov 12 13:59:33 <CM> Ok. If you're using the makefile, it was a bug in the link to the rootfs. Not sure if it's updated
Nov 12 14:00:15 <Balachmar> well, yes I did use make, so I have used a makefile
Nov 12 14:00:51 <Balachmar> Where should I fix what?
Nov 12 14:00:59 <Balachmar> then I might be able to try again
Nov 12 14:07:46 <josch> sooo... can someone tell my how to build ipk packages for specific kernel modules?
Nov 12 14:07:48 <CM> Balachmar: Sorry, got stuck on the phone
Nov 12 14:08:29 <josch> a few hours ago XorA did that for me but I want to test the modules hid and hid_usb
Nov 12 14:08:36 <CM> Balachmar: Look at line 421 in the Makefile, what does it say?
Nov 12 14:08:52 <CM> Balachmar: Mine says ( cd build/qemu && openmoko/flash.sh ../tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973 )
Nov 12 14:09:07 <josch> maybe those are the modules I need for my bt keyboard - any kernel hackers around?
Nov 12 14:10:04 <ScaredyCat> josch: iirc they're in my repo
Nov 12 14:10:32 <josch> ScaredyCat, thx!!
Nov 12 14:10:51 <CM> usbhid is, and some called hidp
Nov 12 14:11:45 <josch> ScaredyCat, I can only find usbhid and hidp
Nov 12 14:12:10 <josch> what is hidp? I modprobed it but it doesn't solve the error
Nov 12 14:12:33 <ScaredyCat> what was the other one?
Nov 12 14:12:34 <edistar> Balachmar: are you running make qemu?
Nov 12 14:12:49 <josch> wanted to try hid and hid_usb
Nov 12 14:13:01 <ScaredyCat> is hidusb installed?
Nov 12 14:13:12 <ScaredyCat> usbhid even
Nov 12 14:13:33 <josch> ScaredyCat, on my neo you mean?
Nov 12 14:13:39 <ScaredyCat> ya
Nov 12 14:14:32 <josch> ScaredyCat, you mean hid_usb? It is not. usbhid is installed
Nov 12 14:15:53 * Stephmw smells some used Zaurii going for sale soon, yum!
Nov 12 14:16:18 <edistar> Stephmw: you won't get much for them anymore :P
Nov 12 14:17:24 <edistar> Stephmw: or do you want to buy?
Nov 12 14:17:54 <josch> ScaredyCat, otherwise it would say "FATAL: Module usbhid not found." when modprobing it but it didn't solve my problem
Nov 12 14:18:16 <josch> so I'm searching for a way to compile the hid and usbhid kernel modules
Nov 12 14:18:25 <ScaredyCat> $ ls /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko11/kernel/drivers/hid/
Nov 12 14:18:25 <ScaredyCat> usbhid
Nov 12 14:18:25 <ScaredyCat> root@fic-gta01:~$                     
Nov 12 14:18:43 <ScaredyCat> i think it myght be a defconfig thing
Nov 12 14:19:07 <josch> I heard you add something to a .configure but don't ask me where and what...
Nov 12 14:19:20 <josch> ScaredyCat, I get the same output
Nov 12 14:20:53 <XorA> Stephmw: roll up roll up, fresh Zaurii, buy two for a grand, two for a grand
Nov 12 14:21:19 <josch> XorA, can you explain to me what you did tomorrow?
Nov 12 14:21:27 <josch> s/tomorrow/totay/
Nov 12 14:21:27 <apt> josch meant: XorA, can you explain to me what you did totay?
Nov 12 14:21:32 <XorA> josch: just make menuconfig in kernel
Nov 12 14:21:55 <josch> what explicit folder is the kernel in?
Nov 12 14:21:56 <XorA> josch: then copy new .config over defconfig-2.6.22-5 in package/linux/linux-openmoko
Nov 12 14:22:08 <XorA> tmp/work/neo*/linux-openmoko/*
Nov 12 14:22:13 <josch> thx
Nov 12 14:22:20 <Stephmw> XorA: ;)
Nov 12 14:22:24 <XorA> or bitbake -c menuconfig :-)
Nov 12 14:22:34 <Stephmw> edistar: interested in buying... couldn't afford em when they were new
Nov 12 14:22:51 <edistar> Stephmw: what is so great about them?
Nov 12 14:23:02 <Balachmar> CM: my makefile is 282 lines...
Nov 12 14:23:07 <edistar> Stephmw: I honestly don't know, thats why I'm asking
Nov 12 14:23:10 <XorA> main problem with them is the shipping cost is more than the worth of them
Nov 12 14:23:28 <Stephmw> edistar: small foldable linux devices with keyboards
Nov 12 14:23:33 <edistar> Stephmw: ah, ok
Nov 12 14:23:45 <Stephmw> edistar: ... I like the clamshell design, the N810's screen is too... exposed for me
Nov 12 14:23:56 <Balachmar> edistar: no, I ran make
Nov 12 14:24:05 <edistar> Balachmar: ok
Nov 12 14:24:08 <Balachmar> just like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU told me
Nov 12 14:24:13 <Stephmw> XorA: depends where from/to I guess
Nov 12 14:24:16 <edistar> Balachmar: I had the same error with make qemu
Nov 12 14:24:29 <Balachmar> edistar: I had that as well...
Nov 12 14:24:44 <edistar> ok
Nov 12 14:24:53 <edistar> maybe it's not our fault : P
Nov 12 14:25:10 <XorA> Stephmw: Im in UK where are you?
Nov 12 14:25:16 <Balachmar> But now I tried doing stuff manually instead of with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu
Nov 12 14:26:08 <josch> XorA, I navigated to /build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 but can not do menuconfig <= ??
Nov 12 14:26:09 <zash> U-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up.
Nov 12 14:26:15 <zash> :(
Nov 12 14:26:42 <XorA> josch: you probably using rm_work to remove workdirs after build
Nov 12 14:26:59 <XorA> josch: bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c menuconfig linux-openmoko
Nov 12 14:27:05 <Stephmw> XorA: in London, also the UK :)
Nov 12 14:27:27 <josch> k, will use bitbake then
Nov 12 14:27:47 <josch> XorA, yeah I use rm_work
Nov 12 14:28:12 <Balachmar> CM: any ideas? because my makefiles was 281 lines...
Nov 12 14:28:52 <XorA> Stephmw: got a C860 sitting here I never use
Nov 12 14:30:16 <Stephmw> XorA: I'm interested - after using it for a while, any caveats?
Nov 12 14:31:22 * xzcvczx is surprised at a release by vfnz today
Nov 12 14:31:30 <XorA> Stephmw: probably needs a new battery to get its full battery life back, but it is the model with accellerated graphics including Xv support
Nov 12 14:32:02 <XorA> Stephmw: has nicer keyboard than the CXX00 devices
Nov 12 14:32:06 <Stephmw> XorA: I'm definitely interested then, for my unholy Java experiments
Nov 12 14:32:13 <XorA> Stephmw: but of course no internal HD
Nov 12 14:32:45 <Stephmw> XorA: that's fairly ok, I have a few 4gb cf cards
Nov 12 14:32:45 * XorA thinks he has the original japanese manuals and receipt somewhere as well :-)
Nov 12 14:33:11 <Stephmw> Ooo, those'd come in handy for the insurers
Nov 12 14:34:53 <XorA> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
Nov 12 14:38:40 <borg_> http://pastebin.ca/770696
Nov 12 14:38:58 <borg_> is there a new package for gsmd or something?
Nov 12 14:44:33 <Balachmar> I just got this after running flash.sh
Nov 12 14:44:34 <Balachmar> GTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd '
Nov 12 14:47:47 <Balachmar> I still get the command prompt: GTA01Bv4 #
Nov 12 14:48:03 <Balachmar> What should I type, or is there something wrong elsewhere?
Nov 12 14:50:26 <CM> Balachmar: Sorry, was busy on a coffee break.. :P
Nov 12 14:50:39 <Balachmar> @CM As was I before :)
Nov 12 14:51:00 <CM> Balachmar: How come your makefile is that old? Tried a make update-makefile?
Nov 12 14:51:18 <Balachmar> should I do that even when using svn?
Nov 12 14:51:47 <Balachmar> (command not found)
Nov 12 14:52:05 <CM> Hmm.. I'll check the wiki
Nov 12 14:52:09 <Balachmar> this is what I checked out: svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973
Nov 12 14:53:56 <CM> Balachmar: Why doing it manually? It seems a lot harder
Nov 12 14:55:03 <Balachmar> because the other way didn't work :)
Nov 12 14:55:04 <CM> Balachmar: This might be easier: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile
Nov 12 14:55:26 <CM> I just took the makefile and did a make qemu and that worked
Nov 12 14:55:47 <Balachmar> CM: ok, I will try that one just removing my old stuff first
Nov 12 14:56:01 <CM> Takes a while to build everything though
Nov 12 14:56:04 <woglinde> svn ix fixed
Nov 12 14:57:30 <Balachmar> @woglinde: regarding my problems or some others?
Nov 12 14:57:49 <Balachmar> @CM should I update the make file now first or not?
Nov 12 14:57:51 <woglinde> böachmar the missing file from upstream
Nov 12 14:58:06 <woglinde> blachmar which compiler do you use?
Nov 12 14:58:38 <Balachmar> @woglinde both 3.3 and 4.x are available
Nov 12 14:59:26 <Balachmar> @CM busy making
Nov 12 14:59:32 <josch> XorA, can you help me again? I get this error when doing menuconfig: build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8/temp/run.do_menuconfig.22233: line 246: gnome-terminal: command not found <= do I need gnome-terminal??? I don't even have X!!
Nov 12 15:00:15 <XorA> josch: oh, I didnt realise it needed to fire up a terminal, then you will need to cd into tmp/work/neo*/linux-openmoko*/linux-*
Nov 12 15:00:27 <XorA> josch: and do a make menuconfig
Nov 12 15:02:03 <CM> Balachmar: The later the better, just get the newest one :)
Nov 12 15:02:35 <Balachmar> @CM I just downloaded the makefile, so I assume it is the latest available
Nov 12 15:02:46 <josch> XorA, but as you mentioned I have to delete rm_work beforehand?
Nov 12 15:02:59 <CM> *nod*
Nov 12 15:03:20 <XorA> josch: well bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c patch linux-openmoko before hand
Nov 12 15:03:41 <Stephmw> XorA: btw, you've got comment spam on your 'goodbye zaurus' post
Nov 12 15:04:19 <josch> XorA, I use the makefile so I will do make clean-package-linux-openmoko
Nov 12 15:05:28 <XorA> josch: I dont know the MokoMakefile syntax for that, someone here is bound to
Nov 12 15:05:41 <XorA> Stephmw: cheers, must be time to upgrade SPAM module again
Nov 12 15:06:18 <josch> XorA, I looked into the makefile and make-clean-package does bitbake -c clean XY
Nov 12 15:07:11 <josch> okay doing this deletes my moko/build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 folder
Nov 12 15:08:51 <josch> okay I modified the makefile to support a make patch-package-% command <= this restores the build folder
Nov 12 15:09:18 <josch> XorA, but still not possible to do make menuconfig
Nov 12 15:09:39 <josch> XorA, my folder is: build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8
Nov 12 15:10:39 <XorA> josch: you need to find the makefile way of running the clean task, then the patch task, then you can cd into that work folder and do make menuconfig
Nov 12 15:11:11 <josch> I did bitbake -c clean and -c patch via the makefile
Nov 12 15:11:35 <josch> I'm sure I did because after bitbake -c clean my linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 folder was gone
Nov 12 15:11:46 <josch> and after bitbake -c patch it was there again
Nov 12 15:12:23 <josch> so I cd into the folder bitbake -c patch created and do make menuconfig
Nov 12 15:12:57 <josch> but it doesn't work -> no rule to make target
Nov 12 15:13:22 <josch> I'm pretty sure I'm in the right folder because bitbake deleted and recreated it
Nov 12 15:13:31 <josch> what could I've done wrong
Nov 12 15:15:05 <ScaredyCat> just use -c rebuild
Nov 12 15:17:22 <josch> ScaredyCat, for what exactly?
Nov 12 15:18:00 <josch> will -c rebuild do the same as -c clean and -c build ?
Nov 12 15:18:15 <ScaredyCat> yes
Nov 12 15:18:27 <XorA> ScaredyCat: he wants to edit the .config before building
Nov 12 15:18:33 <josch> but I do not want it to build
Nov 12 15:18:34 <ScaredyCat> oh...
Nov 12 15:18:39 <josch> yeah
Nov 12 15:18:53 <josch> I want to enable building two modules as ipks
Nov 12 15:19:12 <XorA> I do bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c patch linux-openmoko; cd ${WORKDIR}/linux-*; make menuconfig here
Nov 12 15:19:15 <josch> XorA, I'm now able to use bitbake without the makefile
Nov 12 15:19:23 <ScaredyCat> modify your defconfig then, no?
Nov 12 15:19:26 <XorA> but seems needs slightly different for MokoMakefile
Nov 12 15:20:34 <josch> but if I go into the directory that was deleted by bitbake -c clean and recreated by bitbake -c build, then I can be sure I am in the right directory can't I?
Nov 12 15:20:54 <XorA> josch: your path looked good
Nov 12 15:21:08 <XorA> josch: but add a linux-2.6.22-5
Nov 12 15:21:15 <XorA> josch: go one directory further
Nov 12 15:21:52 * buz wonders about the zipit 2
Nov 12 15:22:12 <buz> if that has a browser and an audio out, i'm gonna buy it
Nov 12 15:22:46 <josch> XorA, ahhh!!! right!
Nov 12 15:22:57 * josch = stupid
Nov 12 15:26:48 <josch> hrmm... where can I find hid and hidusb in the menuconfig?
Nov 12 15:29:26 <Balachmar> CM: I needed to update the makefile :)
Nov 12 15:29:43 <CM> Balachmar: Ah, so getting further now? :)
Nov 12 15:30:00 <Balachmar> CM: making again :)
Nov 12 15:30:22 <CM> Hehe, good thing you're patient ;)
Nov 12 15:30:48 <ifworkcouldkill> I just installed the 11.10. built from buildhost.automated.it am I the only one who can see a face underneath the clock? uh?
Nov 12 15:31:32 <ScaredyCat> That's me!
Nov 12 15:31:33 <Balachmar> CM: Well I really want to see the software before I start thinking about buying the phone :)
Nov 12 15:31:42 <ifworkcouldkill> hahaha 
Nov 12 15:32:04 <Balachmar> CM: is this warning ok? :*** Warning - bad CRC or NAND, using default environment
Nov 12 15:32:06 <CM> ScaredyCat: *lol*
Nov 12 15:32:30 <ScaredyCat> it's so you can tell my version from the non scaredycat version, just by looking at the main screen
Nov 12 15:32:32 <josch> Balachmar, all warings are okay as long as they do not stop your pc from building your image
Nov 12 15:32:40 <ScaredyCat> so, you're not going mad :)
Nov 12 15:32:49 <CM> Balachmar: Hmm.. Think so. Btw, balrog-kun knows a lot more than me about all qemu issues :)
Nov 12 15:33:06 <ifworkcouldkill> ScaredyCat: That must be the view of the neo camera add on...
Nov 12 15:33:09 <Balachmar> ok, thanks both
Nov 12 15:33:46 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 12 15:34:04 <ScaredyCat> you are the only one who has mentioned it htough ifworkcouldkill
Nov 12 15:34:09 <Balachmar> CM: it is now at: pcf_write: charge voltage 4.20V. not doing much, but not failing either (this is where it normally would fail)
Nov 12 15:34:11 <ScaredyCat> though
Nov 12 15:34:53 <flexd> ifworkcouldkill: what? where? how link!
Nov 12 15:35:02 <Balachmar> CM: still fails :)
Nov 12 15:35:08 <Balachmar> this error:
Nov 12 15:35:09 <Balachmar> openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 25090 Terminated              $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
Nov 12 15:35:09 <Balachmar> U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.
Nov 12 15:35:09 <Balachmar> make: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255
Nov 12 15:35:33 <CM> Hrmpf... 
Nov 12 15:36:04 <josch> I'm gonna sell t-shirts: "I HATE QEMU"
Nov 12 15:36:12 <CM> Balachmar: That happens all the time to people, seemingly at random
Nov 12 15:36:14 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3397 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Nov 12 15:36:14 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_get_photo),
Nov 12 15:36:14 <CIA-13> openmoko: (moko_contacts_add_contact):
Nov 12 15:36:14 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed):
Nov 12 15:36:14 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.c:
Nov 12 15:36:18 <CIA-13> openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_set_color):
Nov 12 15:36:20 <CIA-13> openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-keypad.c: (on_panel_user_input),
Nov 12 15:36:22 <CM> josch: Hehe.. I'll get one too ;)
Nov 12 15:36:54 <josch> I will stick to my "I HATE FFMPEG" shirt
Nov 12 15:37:08 <ScaredyCat> nowt wrong with ffmpeg...
Nov 12 15:37:09 <Balachmar> @CM: just checked line 421 in the makefile, which looks like it is the same as yours
Nov 12 15:37:17 <flexd> ScaredyCat: does images of such things exist?
Nov 12 15:37:17 * ScaredyCat suspects user error
Nov 12 15:37:18 <flexd> Link!
Nov 12 15:38:06 <ScaredyCat> images flexd?
Nov 12 15:38:29 <flexd> i heard something about a camera
Nov 12 15:38:32 <flexd> and a neo
Nov 12 15:38:35 <flexd> camera + neo
Nov 12 15:38:37 <flexd> images if any!
Nov 12 15:40:06 <CM> Balachmar: I think rwhitby fixed that already, was just a problem if you had an old makefile :)
Nov 12 15:40:38 <ScaredyCat> flexd: no, it was a comment about the picture embedded in my build images...
Nov 12 15:41:00 <ScaredyCat> no camera + neo - sorry
Nov 12 15:41:07 <Balachmar> ok, so no one knows how to fix this? because I am having this error for a while now...
Nov 12 15:41:23 <Balachmar> (maybe you remember me from a few weeks ago cm?
Nov 12 15:41:39 <flexd> ScaredyCat: np, i didnt think there was, just assumed from what little i saw, i just got here ^_^
Nov 12 15:45:01 <Balachmar> CM: maybe I need to install qemu first?
Nov 12 15:45:22 <CM> Balachmar: No, just make qemu builds it
Nov 12 15:46:19 <Balachmar> mmm, than I really don't know...
Nov 12 15:48:05 <CM> Balachmar: You're not alone.. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937
Nov 12 15:49:05 <Balachmar> GTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd '
Nov 12 15:49:14 <Balachmar> this is what I get now
Nov 12 15:49:28 <Balachmar> my proc is using 100%
Nov 12 16:12:39 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3398 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (16 files in 3 dirs): 
Nov 12 16:12:39 <CIA-13> openmoko: * Makefile.am:
Nov 12 16:12:39 <CIA-13> openmoko: * data/gtk-2.0/*:
Nov 12 16:12:39 <CIA-13> openmoko: * data/matchbox/*:
Nov 12 16:12:39 <CIA-13> openmoko: - Move the GTK+ theme to it's own directory
Nov 12 16:12:41 <CIA-13> openmoko: - Include matchbox box theme via svn:externals
Nov 12 16:26:42 <josch> can someone explain to me the output of libgsm-tool?
Nov 12 16:26:45 <josch> pr=10
Nov 12 16:26:46 <josch> # 10, 4916092046673, 145, Taires Bayl
Nov 12 16:26:57 <josch> what does 145 stand for?
Nov 12 16:29:48 <CIA-13> openmoko: 03thomas * r3399 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer): * data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: Fix dialer theme
Nov 12 16:30:22 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: i guess thats the type...see the source of libgsmd, 
Nov 12 16:30:34 <josch> hi Sup3rkiddo 
Nov 12 16:31:16 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hi =D
Nov 12 16:31:27 <balrog-kun> 145 means an international numbering scheme
Nov 12 16:31:35 <balrog-kun> i.e. includes the country code
Nov 12 16:31:41 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, I still do not have success with sendung/receiving sms...
Nov 12 16:31:52 <balrog-kun> 49 is the country code, don't remember which country that is
Nov 12 16:32:02 <josch> germany
Nov 12 16:32:26 <josch> 145... international numbering scheme? what scheme?
Nov 12 16:32:27 <balrog-kun> that's what i thought :)
Nov 12 16:32:48 <balrog-kun> josch: GSM defines some 8 different numbering schemes, see the docs
Nov 12 16:32:54 <josch> thx
Nov 12 16:32:59 <balrog-kun> 129 is national (i.e. no country code)
Nov 12 16:33:11 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: you happen know some internals of libgsmd? you have aby idea what ask_ds member is doing in some structures..i have been hardcoding them in my code to 1
Nov 12 16:33:25 <josch> to send sms via libgsmd-tool this is right? : ss=0,01606881489,"test"
Nov 12 16:33:33 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: it's whether you want a confirmation for you sms
Nov 12 16:33:48 <balrog-kun> if it's 0, then you're not requesting a confirmation
Nov 12 16:34:05 <balrog-kun> or rather, confirmation of the delivery of the sms
Nov 12 16:34:14 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: hmm, ok thanks, delivery report
Nov 12 16:34:26 <balrog-kun> oh right
Nov 12 16:34:28 <josch> never heard of a delivery report for sms?
Nov 12 16:34:58 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: but its rather useless isnt, afaik, libgsmd doesnt handle reports?
Nov 12 16:35:01 <josch> so if I do ss=0,01606881489,"test" <= is 0 the ask_ds value Sup3rkiddo talked about?
Nov 12 16:35:16 <balrog-kun> josch: my old phone sometimes displayed a screen saying "your message has been delivered succesfully" or something like this, it's this thing
Nov 12 16:35:49 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: yeah, i think the decoding of the delivery reports is not yet implemented
Nov 12 16:36:02 <balrog-kun> they come in PDU format called DS
Nov 12 16:36:09 <josch> balrog-kun, okay so if I do ss=0,01606881489,"test" then I state I do not want a confirmation but still my sms do not get sent - how can I debug this?
Nov 12 16:36:12 <balrog-kun> and we only decode SMS and CB formats
Nov 12 16:36:12 <LarstiQ> Sup3rkiddo: with my provider it's useless anyway since they don't honour it
Nov 12 16:36:30 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: yes!, does the GSM spec have these details..
Nov 12 16:36:37 <LarstiQ> Sup3rkiddo: instead you can prepend '*0#' at the start of your message
Nov 12 16:36:56 <josch> LarstiQ, weird
Nov 12 16:36:59 <balrog-kun> josch: no idea
Nov 12 16:37:10 <Sup3rkiddo> LarstiQ: honour it?, i thought you explicitly enable it at your phone
Nov 12 16:37:14 <Sup3rkiddo> *in
Nov 12 16:37:24 <josch> I even get "Send: message sent as ref 142"
Nov 12 16:37:25 <balrog-kun> josch: i think the 0 at the beginning of the destination number is excessive
Nov 12 16:37:44 <balrog-kun> josch: it worked for me
Nov 12 16:38:07 <Sup3rkiddo> yes..i dont think you set the ask_ds member..
Nov 12 16:38:12 <josch> balrog-kun, so you can send sms with this command
Nov 12 16:38:13 <LarstiQ> Sup3rkiddo: I can, but you will not get a delivery report from KPN even if enabled
Nov 12 16:38:23 <Sup3rkiddo> LarstiQ: ah ok, 
Nov 12 16:38:30 <balrog-kun> josch: yes, last time i tried it always worked
Nov 12 16:38:37 <josch> :-/
Nov 12 16:38:50 <balrog-kun> josch: i'm using a different gsmd tree but it shouldn't matter
Nov 12 16:39:03 <balrog-kun> josch: i think the 016... should be just 16...
Nov 12 16:40:00 <josch> balrog-kun, ah about this number at the beginning... I tried several combinations of 0160, +49160, 0049160...
Nov 12 16:40:25 <josch> but will try it now with 160
Nov 12 16:40:49 <balrog-kun> +4916... should also work, it worked for me
Nov 12 16:41:01 <josch> :-/
Nov 12 16:41:09 <josch> not for me for some reason
Nov 12 16:41:15 <josch> I even tried libgsmd-devel
Nov 12 16:41:41 <balrog-kun> josch: do you see in /tmp/gsm.log a +CGMS: blah blah command being issued and returning some result?
Nov 12 16:41:54 <balrog-kun> if yes, then it's not a gsmd problem
Nov 12 16:42:11 <josch> balrog-kun, you mean after sending the sms?
Nov 12 16:42:31 <balrog-kun> josch: yeah
Nov 12 16:42:43 <josch> will try it out
Nov 12 16:43:53 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: reading sms works without problems for you?
Nov 12 16:44:25 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, fgau sent me an sms but it was not received while I was in libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 16:44:32 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: yup, but i recently observed some misdecoded characters
Nov 12 16:44:56 <josch> balrog-kun, you can also receive sms??? don't know what I'm doing wrong...
Nov 12 16:45:33 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: you did get the event messages, right?
Nov 12 16:45:48 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, jepp
Nov 12 16:46:00 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: in the libgsmd-devel tree or the r3074 libgsmd
Nov 12 16:46:04 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, and I regularly check my provider with P
Nov 12 16:46:09 <balrog-kun> josch: the command i used was ss=48507328011,helloBlahBlah but i don't have the ask_ds patch applied yet i think
Nov 12 16:46:18 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hehe..
Nov 12 16:46:32 <balrog-kun> you can send me a message and i'll tell you what you wrote :)
Nov 12 16:47:00 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: i'm using the gsmd from http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/gsmd.git
Nov 12 16:47:46 <balrog-kun> hmm, maybe it should go with a +, i'll check
Nov 12 16:48:07 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: ah ok, thought so, you use it in your code directly or just use the ligsmd-tool part alone?
Nov 12 16:50:26 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: you mean with the standard gsmd and non-standard libgsmd-tool?
Nov 12 16:52:11 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: no not the tool, the gsmd itself and its API, 
Nov 12 16:52:24 <josch> IT WORKS
Nov 12 16:52:40 <josch> i did change nothing
Nov 12 16:52:47 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: i'm using both gsmd and libgsmd and libgsmd-tool -m shell from this tree
Nov 12 16:52:47 <flexd> lies
Nov 12 16:52:49 <josch> but I just sent successfully an sms
Nov 12 16:52:53 <flexd> :)
Nov 12 16:53:08 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: cool so ss=<number>,"Care for a date?" just works?
Nov 12 16:53:27 <josch> ss=0,004916096482805,"test"
Nov 12 16:53:27 <josch> # Send SMS
Nov 12 16:53:27 <josch> Send: message sent as ref 144
Nov 12 16:53:38 <josch> this is exactly the same as I did before
Nov 12 16:53:45 <josch> I only used another number
Nov 12 16:54:20 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: hmm, ok but could you enlighten me on how different andrew's gsmd git tree is?
Nov 12 16:54:42 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: how about without the country code
Nov 12 16:55:22 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: it's based on an older svn snapshot and the patches from OE and some that are not yet in OE but nothing important
Nov 12 16:55:47 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: hmm, ok thanks so i guess i will use the current SVN head as my base
Nov 12 16:55:54 <borg_> http://pastebin.ca/770696
Nov 12 16:55:56 <borg_> mhhh
Nov 12 16:56:05 <borg_> libgsmd, ligsmd0 and gsmd
Nov 12 16:56:11 <borg_> what is needed and what isn't?
Nov 12 16:56:42 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, ss=0,016096482805,"test" <= worked
Nov 12 16:56:55 <balrog-kun> i wouldn't be surprised if current SVN is broken, the stuff that recently got committed has not been check at all
Nov 12 16:57:26 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: hehe true, i do keep a close watch on the commit logs
Nov 12 16:57:29 * ScaredyCat pukes over android
Nov 12 16:57:59 <balrog-kun> the svn snapshot on which my tree bases is from the times when jserv and harald committed stuff
Nov 12 16:58:03 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: whats with the 0 in the beginning, is it part of the number
Nov 12 16:58:16 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, yes
Nov 12 16:58:40 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, here in germany all numbers start with a 0
Nov 12 16:58:46 <balrog-kun> borg_: it's all one package, you need all of the files (most of them are just symlinks)
Nov 12 16:59:08 <balrog-kun> oh, there's libgsmd0 also, i don't know what that it
Nov 12 16:59:11 <balrog-kun> *is
Nov 12 16:59:42 <Sup3rkiddo> libgsmd0 must be having some shared objects
Nov 12 16:59:51 <borg_> http://pastebin.ca/770832
Nov 12 16:59:57 <borg_> mh
Nov 12 17:00:01 <borg_> i cant install all of them
Nov 12 17:00:13 <borg_> and i cant remove one of them without removing the whole phone
Nov 12 17:00:30 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hmm thanks for the hint, but could you volunteer to test the pygsmd out, i wont be having a neo for another month to play with
Nov 12 17:00:31 <borg_> thats odd
Nov 12 17:00:59 <Sup3rkiddo> borg_: use -force-depends and remove it one by one, but keep a keen eye on things
Nov 12 17:01:36 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, no problem! I'm even very interested in using pygsmd for my app
Nov 12 17:01:57 * Sup3rkiddo hugs josch
Nov 12 17:02:30 * josch asks himself how Sup3rkiddo could write pygsmd without testing it on a neo
Nov 12 17:02:46 <fgau> josch: what app you are working on?
Nov 12 17:03:01 <josch> fgau, I want to be able to send/receive sms
Nov 12 17:03:27 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: lol, the thing is the neo is in a university near me..semesters start from thursday so the labs would be off limits
Nov 12 17:03:35 <josch> fgau, and I want to call as stable as I can with libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 17:04:00 <Sup3rkiddo> ...and i gotta study for them =/
Nov 12 17:04:36 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, okay somehow sending sms seems to work for me now
Nov 12 17:04:45 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, just tried a third number
Nov 12 17:05:05 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: oh cool heres the ipk and the script, http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14&release_id=27
Nov 12 17:06:01 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: oh, could tell me the revision of your libgsmd?, 
Nov 12 17:06:16 <flexd> 10 bonus points to whoever sends me a sms with gps coordinates in it first :<
Nov 12 17:06:45 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: not too tempting..bah
Nov 12 17:07:46 <cjb_ie> what do the bonus points get us? ;-)
Nov 12 17:07:47 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, 3293
Nov 12 17:07:58 <flexd> cjb_ie: not those kinds of things cjb_ie :D
Nov 12 17:08:37 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hmm thanks
Nov 12 17:08:37 <flexd> err - cjb_ie  :/
Nov 12 17:08:49 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: your neo perhaps
Nov 12 17:10:27 <fgau> flexd: your cell# pls.? ;)
Nov 12 17:11:12 <flexd> Sup3rkiddo: i have no neo yet :(
Nov 12 17:12:00 <Sup3rkiddo> ~trout flexd
Nov 12 17:12:01 * apt slaps flexd around a bit with a large trout!
Nov 12 17:12:22 <Sup3rkiddo> ah..feels good when you arent at the receiving end for a change
Nov 12 17:15:28 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, successfully installes python-gsmd - for pygsmd-shell I only need python-core ?
Nov 12 17:15:37 <balrog-kun> it would be very cool is a python dialer / sms app existed
Nov 12 17:15:48 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: yeah and libpython
Nov 12 17:15:56 <josch> balrog-kun, I will remind you if I hacked this app together
Nov 12 17:16:16 <balrog-kun> josch: cool
Nov 12 17:16:55 <zecke> bye
Nov 12 17:16:57 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: :D on my agenda as well but pygsmd has a long way to go, only voicecalls and some network stuff works as of now
Nov 12 17:17:28 <Sup3rkiddo> ..and sms if josch manages to send one :P
Nov 12 17:17:40 <Sup3rkiddo> it didnt work for me when i tried on my neo
Nov 12 17:17:49 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, ha! I'm in pygsmd-shell
Nov 12 17:18:05 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: cool see if sigq works
Nov 12 17:18:14 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: '?' for the help message
Nov 12 17:18:34 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, already figured this - sigq works
Nov 12 17:18:53 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: wow, nice, now sending sms?
Nov 12 17:18:58 <josch> kk
Nov 12 17:19:30 <Sup3rkiddo> its kinda cool to have someone work with your code for the first time
Nov 12 17:19:32 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, I seperate the number from the message with a space?
Nov 12 17:19:38 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: yes
Nov 12 17:19:51 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, had the same feeling when writing mokopedia
Nov 12 17:20:04 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: :P
Nov 12 17:27:23 <bedboi> lol
Nov 12 17:27:28 <bedboi> android just uses java
Nov 12 17:27:29 <bedboi> LOL
Nov 12 17:27:32 <bedboi> AHAAHHA
Nov 12 17:27:33 <Sup3rkiddo> LOL
Nov 12 17:27:40 <bedboi> what's that bullshit?
Nov 12 17:27:40 <josch> lol???
Nov 12 17:27:44 <bedboi> java 
Nov 12 17:27:46 <josch> not really?
Nov 12 17:27:46 <bedboi> bleah
Nov 12 17:27:49 <bedboi> REALLY
Nov 12 17:27:52 <josch> URL OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
Nov 12 17:27:54 <bedboi> not kidding
Nov 12 17:28:00 <bedboi> http://code.google.com/android/kb/index.html
Nov 12 17:28:04 <bedboi> i'm lolling
Nov 12 17:28:08 * ScaredyCat vomits
Nov 12 17:28:10 <ScaredyCat> more
Nov 12 17:28:12 <Sup3rkiddo> bedboi: speaking of android in this channel is forbidden
Nov 12 17:28:13 <bedboi> and they are pushing for developers 
Nov 12 17:28:25 <bedboi> Sup3rkiddo: i'm not speaking of
Nov 12 17:28:33 <bedboi> i'm insulting
Nov 12 17:28:40 <xzcvczx> ~smack bedboi 
Nov 12 17:28:40 <bedboi> there is a subtle difference
Nov 12 17:28:41 * apt smacks bedboi upside the head.
Nov 12 17:28:55 <bedboi> what the fuck
Nov 12 17:28:57 <Sup3rkiddo> bedboi: ok go on
Nov 12 17:29:04 <bedboi> i was there with my finger on F5
Nov 12 17:29:06 <Sup3rkiddo> ~lart xzcvczx 
Nov 12 17:29:06 * apt plops xzcvczx into a giant vat of herring
Nov 12 17:29:21 <Sup3rkiddo> apt has gone soft these days
Nov 12 17:29:22 <bedboi> dowloaded the SDK
Nov 12 17:29:26 <bedboi> JUST FUCKING .java
Nov 12 17:29:28 <bedboi> that's that?
Nov 12 17:29:37 <xzcvczx> this is a new low for google
Nov 12 17:29:41 <bedboi> yep
Nov 12 17:29:43 <bedboi> lol
Nov 12 17:29:44 <mjr> Heh. Well. At least they're not even trying much for the OpenMoko niche ;)
Nov 12 17:29:45 <Sup3rkiddo> bedboi: and you gotta use eclipse
Nov 12 17:29:53 <Gamara> If you really want to know about it, I can tell you the story....but the topic line is pretty clear that you don't want to talk about it.
Nov 12 17:29:54 <bedboi> it's ridiculous
Nov 12 17:30:13 <bedboi> Sup3rkiddo: no i don't want to, please.
Nov 12 17:30:24 * xzcvczx thinks we should all join #android and go "java wow thats so cool"
Nov 12 17:30:32 * LarstiQ thinks we should not
Nov 12 17:30:40 <LarstiQ> can we please be civil?
Nov 12 17:30:47 <xzcvczx> lol :P
Nov 12 17:31:01 <LarstiQ> Gamara: I have no idea where that part of the topic came from
Nov 12 17:31:01 <josch> guys imagine that!! they have to sell phones powerfull enough to run all the java shit! imagine how perfect openmoko would run on them!! :-D
Nov 12 17:31:19 <SpeedEvil> there are java optimised processors
Nov 12 17:31:27 <SpeedEvil> even ones which can run bytecode directly.
Nov 12 17:31:29 * ScaredyCat is rather disappointed
Nov 12 17:31:29 <LarstiQ> josch: don't kid yourself, what SpeedEvil said
Nov 12 17:31:32 <Gamara> LarstiQ: I figure folks here are sensitive about that kind of thing. 
Nov 12 17:31:46 <bedboi> SpeedEvil: so why are you talking about OPEN
Nov 12 17:31:47 <mjr> anyway, this only strengthens the point "if it becomes relevant, port their VM over so we have their apps"
Nov 12 17:31:56 <LarstiQ> Gamara: it may be there was a period of excessive talk about it drowning out everything else, I don't know
Nov 12 17:31:59 <Sup3rkiddo> its an OSS project, isnt it
Nov 12 17:32:00 <balrog-kun> actually there's nothing surprising about it, it was sure that the UI for android was based on that opensource company that they bought some time ago which made java UIs
Nov 12 17:32:08 <bedboi> if you are focusing just on a very small subset of devices
Nov 12 17:32:09 <balrog-kun> also i don't see anything wrong with it
Nov 12 17:32:23 <balrog-kun> if the UI is innovative
Nov 12 17:32:31 <Sup3rkiddo> we will port it =D
Nov 12 17:32:34 <xzcvczx> LarstiQ: more about everyone joining commenting on how om was dead now that the googleos was coming
Nov 12 17:32:36 <bedboi> no please.
Nov 12 17:32:41 <bedboi> java, bleah
Nov 12 17:32:48 <Gamara> Also, as the code is opened, if you like it you can just appropriate it for moko. Look at the released kernel, there is some very real goodness there for the 3g qualcomm chipset.
Nov 12 17:32:57 <bedboi> pow(google,-100000)
Nov 12 17:33:14 <XorA> google == evil
Nov 12 17:33:15 <mjr> Gamara, yeah
Nov 12 17:33:21 <josch> well... back to topic?
Nov 12 17:33:39 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, tried with libgsmd-tool and pygsmd-shell
Nov 12 17:33:48 <josch> I wrote sms to two numbers
Nov 12 17:33:56 <josch> so four sms alltogether
Nov 12 17:33:59 <bedboi> i hope this is some fool's day joke
Nov 12 17:34:07 <bedboi> i agree it's somewhat early
Nov 12 17:34:10 <josch> those I wrote with libgsmd-tool did arrive
Nov 12 17:34:11 <LarstiQ> josch: none of them arrived?
Nov 12 17:34:15 <LarstiQ> ah
Nov 12 17:34:26 <josch> those I wrote with pygsmd-shell did not
Nov 12 17:34:26 <balrog-kun> bedboi: why? what did you expect?
Nov 12 17:34:43 <bedboi> balrog-kun: something sane.
Nov 12 17:35:01 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: so somehing's wrong with pygsmd then, thanks man...owe you a beer sometime
Nov 12 17:35:09 <balrog-kun> this is very sane, and it's exactly what was speculated all around the web
Nov 12 17:35:20 <LarstiQ> josch: what was the trick to getting libgsmd-tool working for you?
Nov 12 17:35:27 <bedboi> balrog-kun: i don't see any sanity
Nov 12 17:35:31 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, I'm not into your code but I think you have to look into the libgsmd-tools code again to copy what they do
Nov 12 17:35:35 <Tyrael> Hi all
Nov 12 17:35:48 <mjr> It's sane, yes, it's somewhat blind to say otherwise. Just not particularly exiting as such either.
Nov 12 17:35:50 <josch> LarstiQ, what's not working?
Nov 12 17:35:55 <Tyrael> is agpsgui working?
Nov 12 17:36:35 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: as far as sending goes, its just a function call, must be becuase since i had used an older libgsmd
Nov 12 17:36:41 <balrog-kun> are there screenshots somewhere, btw?
Nov 12 17:37:00 <balrog-kun> they have a GPU on their testing board (MSM)
Nov 12 17:37:08 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, and if your code works and I can use it for my app, then I owe YOU a beer :-D
Nov 12 17:37:16 <balrog-kun> as well as an A/V DSP
Nov 12 17:37:53 <LarstiQ> josch: I thought you mentioned sending sms but not arriving an hour and a half ago?
Nov 12 17:38:12 <josch> LarstiQ, right and I still do not know why
Nov 12 17:38:20 <bedboi> the emulator is sucking 84% of cpu and 150mb ram
Nov 12 17:38:21 <bedboi> lol
Nov 12 17:38:26 <LarstiQ> josch: mkay :)
Nov 12 17:38:26 <josch> LarstiQ, there has to be a reason but I changed nothing
Nov 12 17:38:38 <bedboi> they must be joking
Nov 12 17:38:48 <LarstiQ> bedboi: I'm not interested in this android bashing, perhaps others are, but if not, mind taking it somewhere else?
Nov 12 17:38:55 <balrog-kun> bedboi: neo1973 emulator sucks more ram
Nov 12 17:38:57 <LarstiQ> josch: always nice :)
Nov 12 17:39:00 * josch agrees to LarstiQ 
Nov 12 17:39:05 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hehe, sure i would like to take part if you are doing some GUI app, actually i was thinking on the lines creating sometime like sms tool but i didnt know it existed already
Nov 12 17:39:21 <balrog-kun> it needs to hold the 128 megs of Neo RAM + 64 megs of Flash + page tables + more
Nov 12 17:39:34 <josch> smstool only uses libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 17:40:19 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: it does so since there wasnt any python bindings, now we have something if not nothing..lol
Nov 12 17:40:48 <LarstiQ> Sup3rkiddo: so, thinking of a port of smstool to pygsmd?
Nov 12 17:41:01 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, I see your last commit was an hour ago - I'm glad you are active in developing it
Nov 12 17:41:08 <josch> LarstiQ, no, no port
Nov 12 17:41:17 <LarstiQ> josch: rewrite? :)
Nov 12 17:41:21 <josch> LarstiQ, smstool is too simple to copy anything
Nov 12 17:41:34 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: that was just a change in comment :P
Nov 12 17:41:46 <josch> LarstiQ, it's only GUI, libgsmd-tool initialization and sending
Nov 12 17:41:49 <LarstiQ> josch: I do like it's ability to run on the host
Nov 12 17:42:06 <LarstiQ> not that I've ever ran it that way, but still
Nov 12 17:42:16 <josch> LarstiQ, this is an ability of libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 17:42:30 <Sup3rkiddo> LarstiQ: not a port, sms tool uses python-process stuff, its really easy if you bring in pygsmd, lot of dependency stuff should go..
Nov 12 17:42:44 <LarstiQ> cool
Nov 12 17:42:49 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, ah, so you looked into the smstool code
Nov 12 17:43:47 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, right - if I can do sendsms '01636832356 test' with pygsmd-shell then a GUI for this is only 200lines of gtk code away
Nov 12 17:43:59 <Sup3rkiddo> hehe, yup..but sadly the next 20 days will be tight for me as i have semesters, would be wonderful if someone lends me a helping hand
Nov 12 17:44:11 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: eggjactly
Nov 12 17:44:12 <LarstiQ> Sup3rkiddo: where is your code located?
Nov 12 17:44:16 * LarstiQ fires up his neo
Nov 12 17:44:23 <josch> LarstiQ, http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=python-openmoko
Nov 12 17:44:32 <Sup3rkiddo> LarstiQ: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/python-openmoko/
Nov 12 17:44:51 <josch> LarstiQ, to get pygsmd-shell: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14&release_id=27
Nov 12 17:45:16 <Sup3rkiddo> LarstiQ: thats an example script to use pygsmd..
Nov 12 17:45:54 <LarstiQ> thanks both
Nov 12 17:46:04 <flexd> can you recieve sms too?
Nov 12 17:46:24 <josch> flexd, i tried with libgsmd-tool but didnt work
Nov 12 17:46:26 <Sup3rkiddo> well i am not able to, although the event registers
Nov 12 17:46:43 <josch> I didn't even get the event
Nov 12 17:47:11 <flexd> when the gta02 gets released i'l get mine and start working on it :D, really want to do some python codê
Nov 12 17:47:21 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: yay
Nov 12 17:47:49 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: oh!, you didnt get message like "EVENT: incoming message..blah blah?
Nov 12 17:48:02 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, nope
Nov 12 17:48:10 <Sup3rkiddo> i get that but, if i retreive it, get a freeze
Nov 12 17:48:12 <josch> I'm just trying again now
Nov 12 17:50:06 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: did you include single quotes while doing the sendsms?
Nov 12 17:51:20 <Sup3rkiddo> because if thats the case, the script treats everything within the quotes as a single entity, no quotes whatsover..
Nov 12 17:52:14 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, pygsmd-shell> sendsms '004916096482805 test'
Nov 12 17:52:14 <josch> Sending the message 'test'' to '004916096482805
Nov 12 17:53:06 <flexd> try sendmsg <number> 'hi' ? :/
Nov 12 17:53:07 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hmm, but what if you exclude the single quotes
Nov 12 17:53:32 <josch> you mean sendsms 004916096482805 test ??
Nov 12 17:53:35 <bedboi>  OpenLab Goal: grats
Nov 12 17:53:35 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: well yeah, but quotes arent really required
Nov 12 17:53:38 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: yup
Nov 12 17:53:45 <bedboi> s/Goal//
Nov 12 17:53:45 <apt> bedboi meant:  OpenLab : grats
Nov 12 17:56:05 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, no, not working without quotes
Nov 12 17:56:11 <josch> pygsmd-shell> sendsms 016096482805 test
Nov 12 17:56:11 <josch> Sending the message 'test' to 016096482805
Nov 12 17:56:34 <flexd> are you doing this in a emu? or on a real phone?
Nov 12 17:56:53 <josch> flexd, with wemu?
Nov 12 17:56:56 <josch> qemu?
Nov 12 17:57:03 <flexd> yeah? are you?
Nov 12 17:57:13 <josch> how?
Nov 12 17:57:18 <josch> it has no gsm modem
Nov 12 17:57:20 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: oh groan..
Nov 12 17:57:27 <flexd> josch: it's a emulator
Nov 12 17:57:37 <flexd> it emulates stuff, i dont know, i'm asking you  ^
Nov 12 17:57:56 <josch> no - how should you be able to connect to gsm without a gsm modem?
Nov 12 17:58:13 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: you could use phonesim...
Nov 12 17:58:24 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, whats that?
Nov 12 17:58:31 <Sup3rkiddo> but only for testing though, nothing beats the real machine
Nov 12 17:58:37 <balrog-kun> but your message wouldn't reach the destination :p
Nov 12 17:58:49 <josch> so its useless for testing -_-
Nov 12 17:59:05 <josch> and all the problems I have right now I would blame the emulator for
Nov 12 17:59:06 <josch> no
Nov 12 17:59:09 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: na, you could check if AT commands are getting sent
Nov 12 17:59:22 <josch> testing can only be done on the real machine with the real problems
Nov 12 17:59:25 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: that blog post saved me a lot of time =D
Nov 12 17:59:57 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: right, sms stuff worked with phonesim..hehe, but not on the neo...
Nov 12 18:00:10 <balrog-kun> josch: it would display a message you sent (if it isn't too buggy), and you can also simulate an incoming sms to the qemu (but this part *is* buggy) as well as cell broadcasts and phonecalls etc
Nov 12 18:00:16 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, just tell me the file where the log is located
Nov 12 18:00:16 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: cool :)
Nov 12 18:00:57 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: thanks for your posts also
Nov 12 18:01:07 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: hmm, i bring gsmd to the foreground instead of daemonizing, anyone else know about the logs?
Nov 12 18:01:11 <josch> receiving sms still not works for me with libgsmd-tools
Nov 12 18:01:25 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: thanks man...feels good..
Nov 12 18:01:25 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, okay will also do it this way now
Nov 12 18:01:39 <balrog-kun> i do cat /tmp/gsm.log
Nov 12 18:01:46 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: ah, do that that
Nov 12 18:01:57 <Sup3rkiddo> cat /tmp/gsm.log
Nov 12 18:02:00 <balrog-kun> or tail -f 
Nov 12 18:02:20 <josch> balrog-kun, is /tmp/gsm.log the same output as from real gsmd?
Nov 12 18:02:30 <josch> same as in exactly the same
Nov 12 18:02:33 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: see if you get any AT+CMGS
Nov 12 18:02:52 <balrog-kun> josch: it *is* the output, the init script does gsmd ... > /tmp/gsm.log i think
Nov 12 18:03:02 <josch> balrog-kun, okay
Nov 12 18:03:41 <flexd> heh, android is java?
Nov 12 18:03:53 <flexd> Isnt the performance on that gonna be like shit ? :/
Nov 12 18:04:05 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: please check if you get AT+CMGS=<blah>.... appended to the logs..it does so here
Nov 12 18:04:59 <josch> Sup3rkiddo, Sun Nov 11 04:04:18 2007 <1> atcmd.c:567:atcmd_submit() submitting command `AT+CMGS=181
Nov 12 18:05:05 <balrog-kun> flexd: i think it's partially a myth about java slowness, especially if they're using the sun's opensourced vm
Nov 12 18:05:05 <josch> such output?
Nov 12 18:05:31 <flexd> balrog-kun: java's slowness is not a myth, i remember my days of using azureus, it's a nightmare
Nov 12 18:05:40 <Sup3rkiddo> josch: yeah something like that
Nov 12 18:06:09 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: pr0n downloading software is a different issue :P
Nov 12 18:06:16 <flexd> it's performance is like a wet sock dipped tar.
Nov 12 18:06:20 <flexd> dipped in*
Nov 12 18:06:21 <balrog-kun> flexd: with what vm?
Nov 12 18:06:27 <flexd> balrog-kun: windows 
Nov 12 18:06:28 <flexd> i guess
Nov 12 18:06:29 <flexd> sun something
Nov 12 18:06:40 <josch> Sun Nov 11 04:04:18 2007 <1> sms_cb.c:432:usock_rcv_sms() AT+CMGS=181
Nov 12 18:06:49 <josch> does this mean I received an sms?
Nov 12 18:07:03 <balrog-kun> they may also be using a hardware aided vm btw
Nov 12 18:07:23 <flexd> josch: you should read the sending and recieving sms manually document on the wiki
Nov 12 18:07:34 <josch> flexd, I already did
Nov 12 18:07:38 <balrog-kun> i don't know what core their qualcomm msm board uses
Nov 12 18:07:45 <josch> flexd, receiving is not working
Nov 12 18:08:20 <josch> grrr.... just repect the topic
Nov 12 18:08:23 <Sup3rkiddo> bye all, good night, catch ya tomorrow
Nov 12 18:09:11 <edistar> hi
Nov 12 18:15:14 <balrog-kun> 528 MHz ARM11 Jazelle™ Java® hardware acceleration
Nov 12 18:16:21 <edistar> balrog-kun: what is that?
Nov 12 18:16:48 <LarstiQ> judging by the Jazelle, the android cpu
Nov 12 18:16:55 <balrog-kun> edistar: msm7200 specs
Nov 12 18:17:06 <edistar> balrog-kun: ok
Nov 12 18:18:05 <balrog-kun> although i also heard nobody has been able to make any good use of Jazelle in the several years of ARM cpus history and that they were planning to drop it in armv6 or armv7
Nov 12 18:18:52 <swetland> jazelle is really not all that useful in the grand scheme of things.  ARM's choice to just better support features useful to runtimes in general in thumb2, etc makes a lot more sense to me
Nov 12 18:19:33 <XorA> we did a VM on an infineon chip with Java accellerator, our software VM was faster than the accellerated one
Nov 12 18:19:47 <XorA> it upset infineon
Nov 12 18:19:48 <swetland> sadly jazelle only speeds up the simple (easy) instructions
Nov 12 18:20:03 <swetland> and it locks you into their design for a lot of things
Nov 12 18:20:29 <balrog-kun> yeah, java instruction set is not soooo far from a normal instruction set, so probably a well done java vm may also work fast on an plain arm or thumb2
Nov 12 18:21:10 <swetland> and of course it pretty much only helps for making an interpreter a bit faster -- soon as you're jit'ing, precompiling, or otherwise transforming the code (to get the big wins), it no longer buys you anything
Nov 12 18:21:29 <swetland> s/buys you anything/buys you much/
Nov 12 18:21:30 <apt> swetland meant: and of course it pretty much only helps for making an interpreter a bit faster -- soon as you're jit'ing, precompiling, or otherwise transforming the code (to get the big wins), it no longer buys you much
Nov 12 18:21:43 <edistar> is java used a lot in embedded devices?
Nov 12 18:22:36 <LarstiQ> edistar: more than you might think
Nov 12 18:22:39 <balrog-kun> i think java games make more revenue than ringtones on mobiles :)
Nov 12 18:22:48 <borg_> mostly in handys
Nov 12 18:22:57 <borg_> i havent seen java on routers and such
Nov 12 18:23:11 <edistar> borg_: thx
Nov 12 18:23:33 <XorA> there is Java on SIM cards :-D
Nov 12 18:23:40 <nbd> ossman: ping
Nov 12 18:23:41 <borg_> o_O
Nov 12 18:23:43 <edistar> XorA: seriously?
Nov 12 18:23:49 <balrog-kun> heh, qualcomm was apparently quick to include also this in the processor specs:
Nov 12 18:23:53 <balrog-kun> Support for Linux® and other third-party operating systems
Nov 12 18:24:04 <XorA> edistar: yes, slughtly reduced VM, but still java
Nov 12 18:24:16 <edistar> XorA: so, SIM is a simple processor?
Nov 12 18:24:25 <nelson> pygsmd??
Nov 12 18:24:36 <XorA> edistar: yes, some are 8051, some are avr32, some are even arm
Nov 12 18:24:47 <XorA> majority seem to be 8051
Nov 12 18:24:48 <edistar> XorA: these small sim cards?
Nov 12 18:25:03 <nelson> I always wanted to make an embedded Linux distro for the Compaq iPAQ in which all the applications were written in Python.
Nov 12 18:25:05 <XorA> edistar: yes the little GSM ones
Nov 12 18:25:06 <edistar> thats really strange :P
Nov 12 18:25:09 <nelson> The name?   pypaq, of course.
Nov 12 18:25:40 <edistar> XorA: for the encryption? or what do they need a processor for?
Nov 12 18:25:51 <XorA> edistar: modern sims can run applets
Nov 12 18:26:07 <XorA> edistar: and send SMS, put menus on phone screens, setup SSL tunnels
Nov 12 18:26:14 <edistar> XorA: what kind of applets? is it feasible to do that?
Nov 12 18:26:22 <XorA> edistar: I worked on a web browser for SIM
Nov 12 18:26:33 <flexd> uhm, is there a python/gtk "form designer"?
Nov 12 18:26:44 <edistar> XorA: so you wouldn't need a seperate cpu for the phone if you wanted to build an extreme low-cost model?
Nov 12 18:26:54 <josch> nelson, :-D
Nov 12 18:27:17 <edistar> XorA: you are completely amazing me ;)
Nov 12 18:27:17 <nelson> flexd: glade
Nov 12 18:27:25 <LarstiQ> flexd: boaconstructor/glade
Nov 12 18:27:41 <flexd> nelson: reading about glade now
Nov 12 18:27:45 <flexd> thought it was only c code :/
Nov 12 18:27:46 <nelson> flexd: it's not specific to Python, but there are frameworks that make it easy to use a .glade file in Python.
Nov 12 18:27:47 <mickeyl> nelson: this day will come (complete application logic written in python, all UI stuff in C)
Nov 12 18:28:11 <XorA> edistar: its mainly so the operator can secure some applications and know they will work on even the cheapest handset
Nov 12 18:28:11 <mickeyl> nelson: if OpenMoko will survive long enough, I'm going to work on such a framework
Nov 12 18:28:16 <josch> mickeyl, cool
Nov 12 18:28:19 <XorA> edistar: stuff like billing
Nov 12 18:28:20 <josch> I'm wainting for it
Nov 12 18:28:21 <nelson> hehe.
Nov 12 18:28:23 <edistar> XorA: ok
Nov 12 18:28:24 <XorA> edistar: or info services
Nov 12 18:28:29 <edistar> XorA: billing is done in the sim?
Nov 12 18:28:41 <XorA> edistar: it can be, I dont think anyone does yet
Nov 12 18:28:46 <nelson> mickeyl: OpenMoko might not survive, but open source on phones will.  It's too disruptive not to.
Nov 12 18:28:48 <edistar> XorA: any way to hack sims? :P
Nov 12 18:28:56 <mickeyl> nelson: right.
Nov 12 18:29:01 <josch> mickeyl, I had this idea for my linux desktop - scripting all the GUI apps in python makes live much easier
Nov 12 18:29:11 <XorA> edistar: for Asia we worked on putting a electronic wallet on sim
Nov 12 18:29:30 <XorA> edistar: and the SIM could actually carry out full credit card transactions on its own
Nov 12 18:29:43 <cjb_ie> XorA: wow, cool
Nov 12 18:29:45 <edistar> XorA: noone would suspect a sim card to be something else than a special memory card oO
Nov 12 18:29:52 <flexd> nelson: such as? autoglade?
Nov 12 18:30:01 <edistar> XorA: sounds really cool
Nov 12 18:30:03 <mickeyl> josch: yep. and given a proper architecture and enough horsepower, there's little reason to code app logic in a non-scripting language, but lots of reasons to do it in the scripting way
Nov 12 18:30:12 <XorA> edistar: the new 3g SIMs are going to have usb connectors
Nov 12 18:30:23 <XorA> edistar: and 8 gig of flash ( and increasing)
Nov 12 18:30:26 <edistar> XorA: I really should learn more about it
Nov 12 18:30:36 <LarstiQ> XorA: mechanically compliant?
Nov 12 18:30:37 <edistar> XorA: so, they'll be able to do loads of stuff
Nov 12 18:30:45 <edistar> XorA: will the new 3d sims be the same size?
Nov 12 18:31:10 <XorA> LarstiQ: I dont think so, only electrically, they were going to be MMC but Sandisk pointed out that violated a billion of their patents
Nov 12 18:31:11 <nelson> edistar: why would they be the same size when they're electrically incompatible?
Nov 12 18:31:26 <nelson> that seems like a recipe for failure.
Nov 12 18:31:27 <XorA> edistar: I think form factor is changing to more like microSD
Nov 12 18:31:45 <edistar> just asking cause I'm wondering how they can fit all that is such a small space
Nov 12 18:32:12 <XorA> edistar: there is wifi in microSD now
Nov 12 18:32:16 <LarstiQ> XorA: doh
Nov 12 18:32:22 <XorA> edistar: Moores law still holds
Nov 12 18:32:39 <edistar> XorA: one wonders.. ;)
Nov 12 18:32:51 <XorA> but I dont work on this field anymore
Nov 12 18:32:55 <LarstiQ> XorA: hmm, doesn't radio constrain Moore a bit?
Nov 12 18:33:05 <edistar> XorA: what do you want to do then?
Nov 12 18:33:14 <XorA> edistar: I work for OpenMoko :-D
Nov 12 18:33:23 <nelson> LarstiQ: only the antenna, and if you're willing to accept shorter range, you can fold it.
Nov 12 18:34:04 <edistar> XorA: I mean, what field do you want to go into?
Nov 12 18:34:05 <flexd> nelson: how am i supposed to turn the .glade stuff into python code? :)
Nov 12 18:34:37 <XorA> edistar: I work on supporting OpenEmbedded for openmoko, as far from wierd ass specs as I can get
Nov 12 18:34:54 <nelson> flexd: use libglade.
Nov 12 18:35:02 <don-o> flexd: i didnt see the whole conversation but usually there is a libglade binding that loads the xml when the application starts up and builds the GUI at runtime
Nov 12 18:35:17 <flexd> oh.
Nov 12 18:35:20 <edistar> XorA: isn't it fun to work for openmoko? :P
Nov 12 18:35:33 <nelson> flexd: although I believe that somebody has a python code generator.  I actually think that's the better solution.
Nov 12 18:35:58 <balrog-kun> you can compile glade to C so i would expect you can also compile it to python directly
Nov 12 18:36:02 <nelson> flexd: then, instead of needing  main.py, foo.glade and libglade, you only need main.py and foo.py
Nov 12 18:36:22 <nelson> and ... you'd be insane to edit foo.py by hand.
Nov 12 18:37:03 <LarstiQ> hmm, the qt python bindings have a nice setup where you load .ui code at runtime, and returns a base class and derived class 
Nov 12 18:37:23 <nelson> I think most people use libglade and the python bindings.  It's reasonable even if I think it would be better to produce a .py.
Nov 12 18:38:25 <ossman> nbd, pong
Nov 12 18:38:43 <edistar> XorA: well, best of luck and thank you for the infos, I think through openmoko I'm becoming a lot wiser ;)
Nov 12 18:39:34 <nbd> ossman: could you please forward me the information that atheros gave you about the ar6k timing issues?
Nov 12 18:39:40 <nbd> i'd like to know more about this
Nov 12 18:39:53 <ossman> *digs*
Nov 12 18:40:21 <nbd> thanks
Nov 12 18:40:54 <ossman> nbd, where should I send it?
Nov 12 18:41:05 <nbd> nbd <at> nbd.name
Nov 12 18:41:28 * nox-Hand semi-pissed at Android and in part Google
Nov 12 18:42:59 <CM> nox-Hand: Because it's semi-open? :P
Nov 12 18:43:02 <don-o> android has some exciting stuff.
Nov 12 18:43:04 <ossman> nbd, you've got male
Nov 12 18:43:10 * CM feels the allure of the dark side.. ;)
Nov 12 18:43:21 <nbd> ossman: thx
Nov 12 18:43:26 <nox-Hand> No because it's out and just completely slammed OpenMoko down a lot
Nov 12 18:43:33 <nox-Hand> I am admittely intriguied by it
Nov 12 18:43:58 <edistar> nox-Hand: I don't think it hurt openmoko in any way, at least not if OpenMoko pushes forward a bit now
Nov 12 18:44:24 <nox-Hand> Hmn :|
Nov 12 18:44:34 <salty-horse> just noticed android is touted as "the first complete, open, and free mobile platform". :( http://code.google.com/android/
Nov 12 18:44:52 * LarstiQ shrugs at marketing
Nov 12 18:44:59 <Tieku> sad...
Nov 12 18:44:59 <nbd> ossman: hmm... that doesn't seem to match my issues
Nov 12 18:45:12 <CM> We know, even though it's not completely open nor first..
Nov 12 18:45:22 <edistar> these marketing chaps should join irc
Nov 12 18:45:29 <nbd> ossman: with extra delay, i can talk to the card, but then it locks up after a while (usually around a second)
Nov 12 18:45:48 <CM> edistar: Oh now, all we'd hear then is "leverage" and ROI and "market cap" ;)
Nov 12 18:45:57 <edistar> :P
Nov 12 18:45:59 <ossman> nbd, I'm starting to get the impression that this is just crappy hardware
Nov 12 18:46:11 <nbd> yeah, me too
Nov 12 18:46:12 <edistar> CM: true again, we should have #openmoko and #openmoko-marketing
Nov 12 18:46:19 <CM> Hehe
Nov 12 18:51:04 <edistar> how many germans are working at openmoko? I got the impression that there were quite a lot..
Nov 12 18:51:25 <CM> I think at least 5
Nov 12 18:52:59 <flexd> nelson: libglade is nice enough
Nov 12 18:53:08 <flexd> gives me ability to change my forms 
Nov 12 18:53:08 <flexd> but
Nov 12 18:53:31 <flexd> in this tutorial about libglade it says xml.autoconnect (xml = gtk.glade.XML('filename.glade'))
Nov 12 18:53:39 <edistar> the mailinglist is discussing how hard it is to program in C/C++ for openmoko.. if everyone programs in python or so, will that run fast enough?
Nov 12 18:53:40 <flexd> but xml.autoconnect just fails saying there's no such attribute :/
Nov 12 18:57:52 <Ophelia> does anyone happen to know when the second version of the Neo will be available?
Nov 12 18:58:12 <edistar> Ophelia: are you an optimist?
Nov 12 18:58:20 <ewon> heh
Nov 12 18:58:26 <ewon> was originally Oct
Nov 12 18:58:27 <ewon> now Dec
Nov 12 18:58:34 <ewon> now mor elikely Real Soon Now(tm)
Nov 12 18:58:38 <edistar> with shipping about January
Nov 12 19:00:04 <Ophelia> aha
Nov 12 19:00:09 <Ophelia> I'm an optimist
Nov 12 19:01:01 <edistar> Ophelia: me too :) but it will only be useable in the urban areas of the US and in europe
Nov 12 19:01:15 <Ophelia> just waiting for the second version including WLAN
Nov 12 19:01:23 <Ophelia> why that?
Nov 12 19:01:32 <edistar> Ophelia: it's not quadband
Nov 12 19:01:35 <Ophelia> usable in what way?
Nov 12 19:01:35 <CVirus> Will there be a python interpreter for OpenMoko if there's not already ?
Nov 12 19:01:45 <edistar> Ophelia: only 900/1800/1900
Nov 12 19:01:52 <Ophelia> yeah, sadly so
Nov 12 19:01:54 <edistar> CVirus: I think there is one already
Nov 12 19:02:11 <josch> who in this channel can help me understand gsmd log output?
Nov 12 19:02:11 <Ophelia> I though it was quad-band
Nov 12 19:02:14 <CM> CVirus: Python exists yes, but it's not installed by default in GTA01 for size reasons
Nov 12 19:02:21 <edistar> Ophelia: so if you live somewhere without coverage..
Nov 12 19:02:25 <cjb_ie> Ophelia: it was meant to be, but there was a misunderstanding
Nov 12 19:02:25 <CVirus> I see
Nov 12 19:02:29 <Ophelia> at least that was what once was said
Nov 12 19:02:32 <Ophelia> aha
Nov 12 19:02:37 <Ophelia> why was that?
Nov 12 19:03:09 <cjb_ie> they're currently evaluating whether they can make it support 850/1800/1900 by changing some of the components on the board,
Nov 12 19:03:10 <edistar> they didn't notice that the board only supported triband
Nov 12 19:03:11 <borg_> 20:01 < edistar> Ophelia: me too :) but it will only be useable in the urban areas of the US and in europe
Nov 12 19:03:20 <borg_> their is no problem with urban areas in europe
Nov 12 19:03:22 <cjb_ie> hence giving rise to a gta02-us and a gta02-eu
Nov 12 19:03:29 <borg_> s/their/there
Nov 12 19:03:36 <edistar> borg_: I didn't say so
Nov 12 19:03:46 <borg_> we dont have 850mhz band in europe
Nov 12 19:03:48 <borg_> oh
Nov 12 19:03:54 <borg_> then i missunderstood ;)
Nov 12 19:03:58 <edistar> borg_: ok :)
Nov 12 19:10:11 <edistar> Ophelia: where do you live?
Nov 12 19:10:37 <nelson> flexd: yes, libglade is nice.   About the suggested Python code, the tutorial may be out of date.  Look for a pygtk example that uses gtk.glade
Nov 12 19:11:28 <nelson> edistar: Python is fast enough.   My pygps runs on the Compaq iPAQ 3600 well enough, and it's Old Skewl ARM.
Nov 12 19:11:41 <edistar> nelson: ok, thanks
Nov 12 19:11:57 <edistar> so I will script a few programs with glade and python ;)
Nov 12 19:14:16 <flexd> nelson: i found using signals_autoconnect works :)
Nov 12 19:14:29 <flexd> nelson: you have a ipaq 3600 too? :D
Nov 12 19:15:12 <nelson> flexd: two of them.
Nov 12 19:17:24 <flexd> nelson: heh cool, i just convinced my dad to give me his old one
Nov 12 19:17:37 <flexd> kinda boring though, no bluetooth, no gps, no wlan :/
Nov 12 19:17:46 <flexd> it's got opie on it but i havent done anything more than that
Nov 12 19:18:16 <nelson> yeah, them's problems.  CF sleeve + wifi card, or Navman sleeve with GPS + CF slot.
Nov 12 19:19:21 <flexd> i was looking for a sleeve
Nov 12 19:19:23 <flexd> but i cba
Nov 12 19:19:35 <flexd> im getting a neo as soon as gta02 gets released, it was just for playing anyway
Nov 12 19:19:49 <flexd> it cant be used for anything reasonable anyway, it's like from the stonage
Nov 12 19:19:52 <edistar> these devices are quite boring if you compare them to the gta-02 or the nokia tablets
Nov 12 19:20:34 <nelson> yep, although not if you have a GPS sleeve.
Nov 12 19:20:56 <nelson> That was my main GPS device until I got my N770.
Nov 12 19:21:21 <flexd> hhmm
Nov 12 19:21:21 <flexd> wtf
Nov 12 19:21:31 <flexd> I think i broke either python, ubuntu or glade
Nov 12 19:21:36 <nelson> Now, I'll want my Neo to be my main GPS device.
Nov 12 19:21:41 <flexd> when i close windows now it's like a suuuuuper slow animation
Nov 12 19:22:01 <nelson> It's not like I don't have enough GPS receivers (6).
Nov 12 19:22:14 <cjb_ie> nelson: heh, you're about even with me
Nov 12 19:22:51 <nelson> And only one of them has a user interface.  The rest are just black box GPS receivers.
Nov 12 19:23:08 <edistar> nelson: for me they were always to expensive.. so I waited till a phone with gps and linux came up -> neo ;) had to wait now for ages already though :(
Nov 12 19:23:09 <nelson> (I count the Neo as being a black box receiver ..... for now)
Nov 12 19:23:31 <cjb_ie> GPSes i've bought so far: etrex, etrex vista, holux usb thing (x2), navigps (x2), streetpilot c550
Nov 12 19:23:41 <cjb_ie> three of those i've passed on to other people though
Nov 12 19:25:47 <cjb_ie> aha, i see you're on #osm already - was just going to ask
Nov 12 19:26:49 <ewon> that's no moon
Nov 12 19:27:40 <cjb_ie> ewon: ?
Nov 12 19:31:56 <anrp> that's a well overused cliche phrase!
Nov 12 19:33:07 <edistar> will mono be available in openmoko? :P
Nov 12 19:34:27 <anrp> only if someone wants to bring it in
Nov 12 19:34:43 <anrp> but theres no technical reason aside from porting the clr
Nov 12 19:34:48 <anrp> i think..
Nov 12 19:34:50 * anrp is no expert
Nov 12 19:35:14 <edistar> how big would it be?
Nov 12 19:36:20 <unique> jeah go mono go !!!
Nov 12 19:37:24 <buz> " Google has announced a $10 million contest to spur interest in development on the Android platform"
Nov 12 19:37:34 <anrp> well i dunno, it'd be more or less comparable to the size on desktop linux
Nov 12 19:37:47 <anrp> maybe a bit bigger because ARM code is a bit less compact
Nov 12 19:37:54 <anrp> but you could also strip out tons of stuff, probably
Nov 12 19:38:31 <anrp> #android is ---> that way
Nov 12 19:38:42 <edistar> buz: do you think it will help that much? I think the consortium will be in it's way and once they've finished arguing openmoko will be ready
Nov 12 19:38:45 <unique> buz: poor that they have to promise money to have people make software for it
Nov 12 19:39:13 <edistar> unique: it's typical for companies who habe a lot of money, isn't it?
Nov 12 19:39:58 <edistar> I am quite surprised that the openmoko wiki still shows a pic of the neo with 2007.1 installed
Nov 12 19:40:09 <unique> edistar: jeah, right.... but it looks a little bit like selling your soul to the devil (in the case of google)
Nov 12 19:40:32 * anrp notes two uses of jeah .. D:?
Nov 12 19:46:11 <buz> edistar: it might
Nov 12 19:46:17 <buz> at least it does get out word abuot the sdk
Nov 12 19:49:09 <edistar> ok
Nov 12 20:01:36 <benni_> Hi everybody!
Nov 12 20:01:49 <edistar> benni_: hi
Nov 12 20:02:23 <benni_> I just need some quick help.... ;-)
Nov 12 20:03:00 <edistar> yes?
Nov 12 20:03:09 <benni_> I was trying to build openmoko-qemu the very first time, but make qemu gives me a 404 error (File not found) for http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/
Nov 12 20:03:27 <benni_> Is there anything wrong with the buildhost.openmoko.org-server?
Nov 12 20:04:12 <CM> benni_: Yes, it seems to have some folders missing
Nov 12 20:04:19 <benni_> erm, sorry, specifically it wants http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/index.html
Nov 12 20:04:45 <benni_> so usually those folders are there and I just have to try again later, when this stuff's fixed?
Nov 12 20:04:53 <ScaredyCat> it wants index.html ?
Nov 12 20:04:57 <benni_> jap
Nov 12 20:05:11 <ScaredyCat> siily thing
Nov 12 20:05:14 <ScaredyCat> silly
Nov 12 20:05:14 <benni_> or at least it requests it
Nov 12 20:05:21 <CM> Hmm.. The tmp folder just popped up there
Nov 12 20:05:35 <CM> I wonder if mickyl or someone is updating that whole build folder
Nov 12 20:06:51 <benni_> Well, the Last modified of the temp-folder says so
Nov 12 20:07:05 <benni_> Any hint on how long this takes? ;-)
Nov 12 20:07:20 <edistar> I have a download speed of 500B/sek at the moment (make openmoko-devel-image)
Nov 12 20:07:29 <edistar> breaking off often
Nov 12 20:08:20 <CM> benni_: Well, someone has started a build there at least..
Nov 12 20:08:35 <benni_> Yes, I see, the folders are being filled
Nov 12 20:08:40 <CM> benni_: Might take a few hours if they're building the complete openmoko feed
Nov 12 20:08:44 <benni_> So I'll just wait some time
Nov 12 20:09:00 <benni_> okay, thank you two!
Nov 12 20:09:08 <CM> It could be a few hours if you're unlucky
Nov 12 20:09:12 <CM> :)
Nov 12 20:09:18 <mickeyl> btw.
Nov 12 20:09:23 <mickeyl> who had that battery scale patch for the kernel?
Nov 12 20:09:28 <mickeyl> now would be a good time to add it
Nov 12 20:09:34 * CM tries to remember
Nov 12 20:09:52 <benni_> CM: Tomorrow will be another day... ;-)
Nov 12 20:09:57 <josch> mickeyl, ScaredyCat, or SpeedEvil i think
Nov 12 20:10:11 <CM> I'd say SpeedEvil in that case
Nov 12 20:10:52 <josch> I'm excited to see his patch
Nov 12 20:11:00 <josch> I did some testing on my own: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/battvolt.png
Nov 12 20:11:07 <josch> It's not that unlinear
Nov 12 20:11:32 <edistar> josch: cool
Nov 12 20:12:44 <buz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg they have some really cool stuff going on in that movie
Nov 12 20:15:52 <mickeyl> ah, that's nice
Nov 12 20:16:01 <edistar> yes.. not too bad actually
Nov 12 20:16:04 <mickeyl> it's linear for quite a bit
Nov 12 20:16:16 <mickeyl> but then drops huge
Nov 12 20:16:29 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: got a patch for me? ;)
Nov 12 20:16:44 <edistar> buz: it's not very original..
Nov 12 20:16:52 <CM> mickeyl: Could it have been mwester?
Nov 12 20:17:13 <buz> but for a device 7 months before release its quite nice, really
Nov 12 20:17:40 <edistar> buz: yes :( a bit too good..
Nov 12 20:17:51 <edistar> even has opengl
Nov 12 20:18:00 <buz> opengl es i think
Nov 12 20:18:08 <josch> CM, I think mwester was the one with the gsm off patch
Nov 12 20:18:52 <edistar> buz: it's too good, will be hard for openmoko to catch up
Nov 12 20:18:58 <buz> http://code.google.com/android/
Nov 12 20:19:00 <buz> yeah
Nov 12 20:19:04 <ljp> its java
Nov 12 20:19:08 <ljp> whoopdido
Nov 12 20:19:17 <CM> mickeyl: Sep 13 09:01:58 <SpeedEvil> I've got a patch that's aimed at that. Accurately predicting battery life.
Nov 12 20:19:43 <mickeyl> thanks
Nov 12 20:21:21 <edistar> buz: but raster did mention something about him having great ideas about UI, maybe in half a year openmoko will rock... ;)
Nov 12 20:21:47 <buz> great gui wont do if android has a lot of different form factors
Nov 12 20:22:03 <buz> give me a sliding qwerty android and i'm sold ;)
Nov 12 20:22:27 <edistar> buz: openmoko will build different devices..
Nov 12 20:22:36 <buz> yeah but GTA02 is one year too late, already
Nov 12 20:23:19 <buz> now dont get me wrong, i'm really rooting for OM and google on my phone scares the shit out of me
Nov 12 20:27:02 <edistar> buz: I would like google on my phone more than WM6
Nov 12 20:27:21 <buz> that's assuming you can turn off tracking the user
Nov 12 20:28:06 <edistar> buz: yes
Nov 12 20:28:13 <buz> as for wm6, they have some truly nice hardware, but the os sucks just way too badly
Nov 12 20:28:16 <edistar> at least the kernel must be open
Nov 12 20:28:51 <edistar> buz: did you hear about the t-mobile shadow? someone should mail them and tell them we could port OM to their phone and turn it into a superphone
Nov 12 20:29:05 <buz> i saw a picture today
Nov 12 20:29:06 <anrp> i hope they wait half a year for the software to finish ...
Nov 12 20:29:15 <buz> i thought it was a pretty weird device
Nov 12 20:29:23 <edistar> buz: it looks alright
Nov 12 20:29:25 <buz> gimme a vga tytn II with openmoko
Nov 12 20:29:40 <edistar> or a HTC, they build good hardware
Nov 12 20:29:54 <buz> yeah tytn is htc
Nov 12 20:29:56 <hrw> tytn II is from htc
Nov 12 20:29:59 <edistar> or a gta-02, I don't mind :)
Nov 12 20:30:01 <edistar> oh, sry
Nov 12 20:30:04 <buz> they have some truly great devices, just the software sucks
Nov 12 20:30:18 <edistar> we don't have them (much) in germany, so I don't know much about them
Nov 12 20:30:24 <buz> you have
Nov 12 20:30:33 <buz> they are called vodafone something or else
Nov 12 20:30:36 <edistar> oh
Nov 12 20:30:40 <edistar> branded I suppose
Nov 12 20:30:55 <josch> hrm... if I phone with my neo the other person hears me with an echo - I assume this is a known problem?
Nov 12 20:30:56 <buz> vodafone something-da is quite commong naming
Nov 12 20:34:51 <edistar> do you think some other hardware manufacturer will use openmoko as their OS?
Nov 12 20:35:21 <josch> definately not yet
Nov 12 20:35:28 <josch> the future will tell
Nov 12 20:35:39 <josch> atm openmoko is solely for devs
Nov 12 20:35:59 <edistar> which makes it somehow really cool, but on the other hand it's quite worrying
Nov 12 20:36:17 <josch> not for me - I love developer systems :-D
Nov 12 20:36:35 <edistar> josch: but it is dangerous, if OM is too slow others will catch up
Nov 12 20:36:49 <josch> other open platforms?
Nov 12 20:36:57 <edistar> e.g. adroid xD
Nov 12 20:37:15 <josch> android is not comparable with openmoko
Nov 12 20:37:27 <josch> and it's also still unfinished
Nov 12 20:37:40 <edistar> josch: it is for the non-geeks, for them open source is open source
Nov 12 20:37:42 <josch> AND it uses java -_-
Nov 12 20:37:53 <unique> josch: right, android has a lot powerful companies contributing to it, but openmoko is free
Nov 12 20:38:23 <josch> so as long as it's free - nothing can destroy it
Nov 12 20:38:28 <josch> nobody
Nov 12 20:38:29 <unique> imho java su*** but c# rulez ;)
Nov 12 20:39:25 <CVirus> Python FTW
Nov 12 20:39:34 <unique> FTW ?
Nov 12 20:39:45 <josch> for the win
Nov 12 20:39:54 <edistar> python is cool
Nov 12 20:39:57 <unique> ah k
Nov 12 20:40:11 <LarstiQ> Tjikkun: heh, nice nick
Nov 12 20:40:22 <unique> I haven't used it before, so I can't say anything about it
Nov 12 20:41:11 <edistar> if loads of apps will be in python loads of developers will be interested in openmoko :) with python it's very easy to code
Nov 12 20:41:23 <CVirus> exactly
Nov 12 20:41:43 <Tjikkun> LarstiQ: why?
Nov 12 20:41:49 <unique> edistar: do you know a good python tutorial website, just to have a look at it
Nov 12 20:42:13 <Tjikkun> LarstiQ: ah, also dutch :)
Nov 12 20:42:38 <edistar> the official python docs are really good
Nov 12 20:42:57 <Tjikkun> edistar: so is javadoc :P
Nov 12 20:43:47 <LarstiQ> Tjikkun: yeah, not sure if non-Dutchies get it ;)
Nov 12 20:43:59 <flexd> http://diveintopython.org
Nov 12 20:44:59 <unique> flexd: thanks
Nov 12 20:48:32 <zdanek> hi all
Nov 12 20:48:39 <edistar> hi
Nov 12 20:51:44 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/12/voip-headset-usb-phone-or-bt-headset/
Nov 12 20:53:12 <zdanek> does anybody knows if gps data can be accessed from python scripts on neo?
Nov 12 20:53:56 <edistar> zdanek: at the moment gps doesn't work yet properly, no driver
Nov 12 20:55:06 <zdanek> I'm talking about some kind of using gllin
Nov 12 20:55:40 <Vegar> zdanek: the GPS data will be accessible through gpsd, so look up on that
Nov 12 20:56:00 <zdanek> and when will it be available to use?
Nov 12 20:56:01 <hrw|gone> zdanek: gllin exports NMEA to /tmp/nmeaNP if you run gllin
Nov 12 20:56:17 <zdanek> would it be throught dbus and is python supporting dbus?
Nov 12 20:56:20 <hrw|gone> zdanek: run gllin, read file and thats all
Nov 12 20:56:56 <josch> hrm... if I phone with my neo the other person hears me with an echo - I assume this is a known problem?
Nov 12 20:57:02 <edistar> josch: yes
Nov 12 20:57:03 <zdanek> hrw: that's obvious but since I'm starting to learn python all isn't as clear and simple as it should be
Nov 12 20:57:13 <josch> edistar, any workarounds?
Nov 12 20:57:40 <zdanek> and still gllin is writing to a file and python reads it's paralely
Nov 12 20:58:03 <zdanek> I didn't do that before so I don't know if it's simple in python
Nov 12 20:59:18 <edistar> josch: play around with alsa
Nov 12 20:59:29 <edistar> good night to all
Nov 12 20:59:30 <zdanek> anybody knows a source code to converty NMEA frames to geographical coordinates?
Nov 12 20:59:37 <zdanek> goodnight
Nov 12 21:00:33 <unique> will the wifi chip in the Neo1973 be able to run in mode master?
Nov 12 21:01:12 <Tjikkun> zdanek: gpsbabel probably has it
Nov 12 21:08:26 <nelson> zdanek: http://pygps.org/
Nov 12 21:09:07 <nelson> zdanek: in the pygps source you'll find NMEA.py
Nov 12 21:11:35 <nelson> zdanek: oh, and one of the services that gpsd provides is that it will parse the NMEA for you, and give you lat/lon in plain ASCII form.
Nov 12 21:12:12 <nelson> AND it will even give you dynamic updates as the NMEA data changes, so with pgsd there's basically no need to know anything about NMEA.
Nov 12 21:12:25 <nelson> .... pgsd AND gpsd.  both of the.
Nov 12 21:12:28 <dcordes> hey did somebody think about keyboard support for openmoko-browser2? I mean it is possible to type stuff with a normal (physical; zaurus one in my case) keyboard inside of the browser but you can't for example switch an input box with tab. I think enter doesn't work either. Since there are many machines with keyboard, and propably rising number of people wanting to use OM on them, it would be nice to add such functionality
Nov 12 21:12:50 <nelson> dcordes speaks my mind.
Nov 12 21:13:04 <summatusmentis> dcordes: are you running openmoko on your z?
Nov 12 21:13:12 <dcordes> akita, yes
Nov 12 21:13:22 <summatusmentis> hrm... interesting
Nov 12 21:13:39 <summatusmentis> work well?
Nov 12 21:13:41 <josch> dcordes, this is not a openmoko browser2 issue it's a openmoko-gui issue
Nov 12 21:13:51 <dcordes> well not right now, sorry. I used to but at the moment I run angstrom. Using openmoko-browser2 though since it is the fastest one around.
Nov 12 21:14:10 <dcordes> I think webkit is unbeatable
Nov 12 21:14:15 <gabe0x02> ah ha.... success... IRC so little I always have to figure out how to do it everytime
Nov 12 21:15:07 <summatusmentis> man, I really need to figure out how to get OE back up and running
Nov 12 21:15:35 <gabe0x02> so anyone have anything constructive to say about the Android SDK release?
Nov 12 21:15:48 <zdanek> i'm back - I had a problem with a power in my flat
Nov 12 21:15:50 <dcordes> josch, what you mean, openmoko-gui issue? Can't you alter such settings for each application individually? I experience this not only in openmoko images but also in angstrom builds
Nov 12 21:15:56 <zdanek> nelson: thank you
Nov 12 21:16:04 <zdanek> but is gpsd already running?
Nov 12 21:16:07 <nelson> gabe0x02: no.
Nov 12 21:16:09 <rwhitby> gabe0x02: they have developers on IRC - that's one constructive thing to say :-)
Nov 12 21:16:23 <zdanek> I've read somwhere that it can use gllin output
Nov 12 21:16:26 <swetland> shock!
Nov 12 21:16:44 <nelson> zdanek: not without a driver .... gllin.
Nov 12 21:16:58 <rwhitby> swetland: well, it is a differentiator from LiMo and other previous "open" linux consortiums ... ;-)
Nov 12 21:17:21 <josch> openmoko-browser2 uses the tabbing widget - I think it has to be an openmoko/gtk issue
Nov 12 21:17:36 <josch> @ dcordes
Nov 12 21:17:56 <gabe0x02> do you guys think it may be possible to run apps developed for Android on OpenMoko someday?
Nov 12 21:18:27 <josch> what does the channel title say about android?
Nov 12 21:18:37 <josch> yes, with a java vm it should be possible
Nov 12 21:18:45 <XorA|gone> #include "openrobot.h"
Nov 12 21:18:57 <zdanek> nelson: suppose I have gllin set up and working
Nov 12 21:19:01 <rwhitby> yeah, android stuff can be discussed in #android
Nov 12 21:19:08 <rwhitby> perhaps the topic should point to that
Nov 12 21:19:12 * josch agrees
Nov 12 21:19:19 <swetland> the whole runtime environment should be able to run pretty easily on an arbitrary arm linux platform
Nov 12 21:19:24 <nelson> !mute gabe0x02 
Nov 12 21:19:26 <gabe0x02> okay ... thanks
Nov 12 21:19:30 <gabe0x02> booo...
Nov 12 21:19:40 <nelson> dang.  It didn't work.
Nov 12 21:19:47 <nelson> ~mute gabe0x02 
Nov 12 21:19:48 * apt surgically removes gabe0x02 vocal chords and feeds them to the local pygmies 
Nov 12 21:19:51 <bmk789> opieopieopieopieopiekrkoreotgo3yow4yp32kvgfrpert/
Nov 12 21:19:55 <nelson> Ahhhh, there we go.
Nov 12 21:20:21 <balrog-kun> the other way around also (openmoko on android)
Nov 12 21:21:33 <gabe0x02> both I think are intresting topics... sorry if this isn't the plcae for them
Nov 12 21:26:43 <rwhitby> considering that both openmoko and android are software platforms, rather than hardware devices, does it really make sense to talk of running one on the other?
Nov 12 21:27:13 <josch> rwhitby, he only spoke about android java apps
Nov 12 21:27:29 <josch> androit itself is the whole platform with the apps on top of it
Nov 12 21:27:43 <rwhitby> josch: ah, yes, he did.  my mistake.
Nov 12 21:36:50 <nelson> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates - Android conversation goes in #android please
Nov 12 21:37:13 <nelson> You needed to see that twice.
Nov 12 21:40:23 <ScaredyCat> I see the self certified conversation police are out agin
Nov 12 21:45:30 <josch> If anybody sees Sup3rkiddo around - please msg me! I have good news for him
Nov 12 21:49:19 <nelson> ScaredyCat: I just edited the topic in line with what rwhitby said.
Nov 12 21:49:33 <rwhitby> nelson: thx
Nov 12 21:50:38 <DanBoodro> Hello
Nov 12 21:50:54 <ScaredyCat> neither of you get to decide what's valid conversation though nelson
Nov 12 21:51:20 <nelson> ScaredyCat: when I'm dictator, you'll PAY for saying that.
Nov 12 21:51:36 <DanBoodro> im an openmoko newb
Nov 12 21:51:39 <ScaredyCat> that's fine... but only when
Nov 12 21:51:58 <nelson> ScaredyCat: I'm takin' names, just so's you know.
Nov 12 21:52:08 <josch> nelson, ^^
Nov 12 21:53:42 <DanBoodro> Does anyone know much about the SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator?
Nov 12 21:56:29 <DanBoodro> ok
Nov 12 21:57:00 <Ebbe> DanBoodro: I guess it is a no..
Nov 12 21:57:33 <Ebbe> DanBoodro: But what do you want to know specifically?
Nov 12 21:57:37 <nelson> for silence to be a "no" on IRC, you have to repeat the question several times over several days at different times of the day.
Nov 12 21:57:51 <nelson> And three minutes of silence is *never* a "no".
Nov 12 21:58:05 <ScaredyCat> DanBoodro: you might want to talk to raster when he appears
Nov 12 21:58:09 <DanBoodro> ok
Nov 12 21:58:18 <Ebbe> nelson: You're right. But it is a temporally no ;)
Nov 12 21:58:55 <DanBoodro> who is raster?
Nov 12 21:59:18 <nelson> http://www.rasterman.com/
Nov 12 21:59:21 <josch> DanBoodro, he is THE raster who hacked the E environment
Nov 12 21:59:30 <DanBoodro> seriously?
Nov 12 21:59:42 <josch> YE RLY
Nov 12 21:59:48 <nelson> no, we're just yankin' yer chain.
Nov 12 21:59:57 <nelson> YES, SERIOUSLY.
Nov 12 22:00:06 <DanBoodro> haha, just wouldn't expect to see him on here
Nov 12 22:00:20 <nelson> ~summon raster
Nov 12 22:00:21 <apt> apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing raster's coordinates
Nov 12 22:01:35 <DanBoodro> you think he would know much about the SMedia 3362?
Nov 12 22:02:17 <nelson> speculation is not my strong suit:  ABTG.OB	2:21PM ET	0.04	Down 0.0020	725,702	54,000	1,890.00$1,890.00	-108.00Down $108.00	Down 5.41%	0.25	-11,617.00Down $11,617.00	Down 86.01%	Chart, Message, Profile, more...
Nov 12 22:02:49 <abraxa__> DanBoodro: What do you want to know?
Nov 12 22:03:00 <dcordes> hi abraxa_ 
Nov 12 22:03:07 <abraxa_> Ahoy
Nov 12 22:03:15 <DanBoodro> just some of the technical details of the chip
Nov 12 22:03:30 <DanBoodro> and what its capable of pulling off
Nov 12 22:03:46 <abraxa_> Well, I doubt he'll be allowed to tell you much as the docs are under NDA
Nov 12 22:03:56 <ScaredyCat> heheh - he said 'pulling off'
Nov 12 22:04:02 <ScaredyCat> </beavis>
Nov 12 22:04:55 <DanBoodro> haha ScaredyCat, but seriously, I was also looking at Nvidia's latest and greatest GoForce 6100
Nov 12 22:05:00 <josch> DanBoodro, he told us about some problems with this chip and the resolution of the neo - just browse the logs
Nov 12 22:05:24 <ScaredyCat> yeah some 512x512 things...
Nov 12 22:05:28 <DanBoodro> i'll take a look
Nov 12 22:05:36 <josch> ScaredyCat, right
Nov 12 22:05:52 <DanBoodro> thanks for the info, i'll keep an eye out for him
Nov 12 22:06:00 <josch> wesnoth in 512x512 will not be fun :-/
Nov 12 22:06:03 <nelson> errrr, isn't the display 640x480?
Nov 12 22:06:11 <ScaredyCat> yes..
Nov 12 22:06:11 <josch> nelson, this is the problem ^^
Nov 12 22:06:11 <DanBoodro> 480x640
Nov 12 22:06:16 <DanBoodro> ^_^
Nov 12 22:06:47 <nelson> depends on how you're holding it, now doesn't it?
Nov 12 22:06:55 <DanBoodro> anyone have a neo?
Nov 12 22:06:58 <DanBoodro> haha indeed it does
Nov 12 22:07:20 <josch> nelson, no doesn't depend on it - the chip is only capable of doing 480x640
Nov 12 22:07:44 <DanBoodro> *not technically speaking*
Nov 12 22:07:46 <josch> this is why for example videos are to be rotated by software
Nov 12 22:08:01 <gabe0x02> how does a phone become "supported"?  What is the minimum requirements for a phone to be even potentally supported?
Nov 12 22:08:04 * nelson invokes the ghost of Keith Packard, who moans "xrandr"
Nov 12 22:08:13 <josch> and if you do xrandr -o 1 only x is rotated not the real fb device in the background
Nov 12 22:08:24 <DanBoodro> if you can get openmoko on your phone, its supported
Nov 12 22:08:24 <nelson> gabe0x02: it's got to be an openly documented phone.
Nov 12 22:08:53 <nelson> josch: SHHHHHHHH!  Don't let them know THAT!  That's the secret sauce!
Nov 12 22:09:00 <josch> nelson, xrandr does NOT work with videos - they get renderes to the framebuffer which will not rotate
Nov 12 22:09:11 <josch> nelson, oh... sry... I forgot...
Nov 12 22:09:21 <SpeedEvil> nelson: no it doesn't.
Nov 12 22:09:37 <DanBoodro> doesnt it work on the treo?
Nov 12 22:09:43 <SpeedEvil> nelson: it needs to be a phone with adequate drivers for the hardware under linux, and some way to install an image
Nov 12 22:10:13 <josch> at least some way to install a boot manager that can then boot from anything
Nov 12 22:10:22 <nelson> SpeedEvil: yeah, but a lot of people call "adequate drivers" to be "GPL drivers"
Nov 12 22:10:35 <nelson> which in the end means that you're documenting your hardware ... in the software.
Nov 12 22:10:43 <josch> well... GPL drivers ARE adequate ^^
Nov 12 22:10:58 <DanBoodro> haha, i remember when i first heard about openmoko, i hacked the shit out of my razr and made it look like it had it on it
Nov 12 22:11:00 <SpeedEvil> nelson: IMO rubbish - a phone with an adequate well supported set of binary drivers would work OK too. 
Nov 12 22:11:06 <SpeedEvil> nelson: but, ...
Nov 12 22:11:15 <nelson> josch: yeah, unfortunately, not really.  Implementation is not specification.
Nov 12 22:11:33 <nelson> SpeedEvil: I'm not sure I disagree with you, but a bunch of other people do.
Nov 12 22:11:53 <josch> but specification is implementation if you give it a little time :-)
Nov 12 22:12:14 <DanBoodro> so im guessing that no one has a neo?
Nov 12 22:12:15 <cjb_ie> SpeedEvil: where 'well supported' means 'will be maintained to keep pace with kernel changes' ?
Nov 12 22:12:31 * josch hates binary drivers
Nov 12 22:12:45 <ScaredyCat> DanBoodro: loads of us have them
Nov 12 22:12:57 <cjb_ie> gta01 that is
Nov 12 22:13:02 <ScaredyCat> see the p1 owners list on the wiki
Nov 12 22:13:09 <abraxa_> DanBoodro: There are more people with Neos here than you can shake a stick at
Nov 12 22:13:25 <josch> DanBoodro, it's easier to ask who has no neo
Nov 12 22:13:30 <DanBoodro> oh yea, sorry and the gta02 is coming in december?
Nov 12 22:13:30 <nelson> OW!  Stop shaking that stick at me!
Nov 12 22:13:43 <josch> DanBoodro, read the topic
Nov 12 22:13:57 <SpeedEvil> cjb_ie: yes - two-part drivers work well generally for that.
Nov 12 22:14:04 <nelson> the first rule of gta02 club is .... we don't talk about gta02
Nov 12 22:14:10 <gabe0x02> are there chipset limititaions?  I mean you gotta have a cross compiler that'll work for it right  
Nov 12 22:14:17 <DanBoodro> haha ok
Nov 12 22:14:37 <SpeedEvil> gabe0x02: GCC will do most phone CPUs
Nov 12 22:14:42 <gabe0x02> I guess if there's arlready a linix distro for it you're kinda set...
Nov 12 22:14:45 <gabe0x02> yeah okay
Nov 12 22:14:49 <SpeedEvil> gabe0x02: the primary problem is either docs or reverse engineering
Nov 12 22:14:50 <abraxa_> nelson: Well, I guess that means you're out then because you just did...
Nov 12 22:15:08 <ScaredyCat> he just did what?
Nov 12 22:15:10 <nelson> oops.
Nov 12 22:15:16 <nelson> talk about gta02.
Nov 12 22:15:21 <ScaredyCat> twice
Nov 12 22:15:24 <josch> he did talkk about IT
Nov 12 22:15:38 <josch> he said the g-word!
Nov 12 22:15:43 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 12 22:15:53 <josch> tip: it's not google
Nov 12 22:16:07 <abraxa_> gPhone ;p
Nov 12 22:16:38 <ScaredyCat> there is no spoon
Nov 12 22:18:00 <DanBoodro> Okay, so heres a quick question; If someone were to rewrite OpenMoko who would try it out?
Nov 12 22:18:09 <ScaredyCat> everyone
Nov 12 22:18:25 <josch> yeah! me too!
Nov 12 22:18:48 <DanBoodro> Okay, if someone had already rewritten OpenMoko who would try it within the next 30 minutes...?
Nov 12 22:18:55 <ScaredyCat> everyone
Nov 12 22:19:01 <g-e> looks like android is a whole new operating system based on the linux kernel. new package manager, new display manager, new windowsmanager... why did they write anything from scratch??
Nov 12 22:19:22 <josch> DanBoodro, I would!
Nov 12 22:19:32 <ScaredyCat> it's just a vm g-e
Nov 12 22:19:44 <g-e> ScaredyCat: vm?
Nov 12 22:19:52 <josch> java virtual machine
Nov 12 22:19:55 <ScaredyCat> I see no pm, nd there's no kernel packages
Nov 12 22:19:58 <DanBoodro> My cousing and I had this idea of rewriting it and are reasearching a lot about OpenMoko before making any decisions.
Nov 12 22:20:01 <DanBoodro> cousin*
Nov 12 22:20:09 <abraxa_> DanBoodro: Just one question. Why?
Nov 12 22:20:23 <ScaredyCat> DanBoodro: you now have 28 minutes
Nov 12 22:20:32 <balrog-kun> g-e: licensing
Nov 12 22:20:32 <josch> DanBoodro, Another question. Why the heck?
Nov 12 22:20:44 <DanBoodro> haha, Just because its possible
Nov 12 22:21:01 <josch> DanBoodro, what do you count as "rewrite"
Nov 12 22:21:31 <josch> if I take out all openmoko apps and libs, I can still start the phone, ssh into it and do my stuff
Nov 12 22:21:32 <DanBoodro> from the ground up, well...I guess I wouldn't use the word "rewrite" then
Nov 12 22:21:36 <balrog-kun> g-e: they don't want to be "too opensource" to be acceptable for all the phone vendors
Nov 12 22:22:05 <josch> DanBoodro, openmoko uses openembedded
Nov 12 22:22:18 <DanBoodro> :) i know
Nov 12 22:22:19 <josch> DanBoodro, what you want to do is writing another OE distribution
Nov 12 22:23:38 <gabe0x02> anohter question: do you need to compile your apps individually for each supported devcie 
Nov 12 22:23:58 <abraxa_> DanBoodro: Personally I'd say that your efforts are better invested into helping OM becoming even better - ie. writing stuff for it, not try to replace it
Nov 12 22:24:01 <josch> gabe0x02, not really but for eayh architecture
Nov 12 22:24:40 * josch is of the same opinion as abraxa_ 
Nov 12 22:24:47 <gabe0x02> how many architectures would you say existed on potential openmoko devices
Nov 12 22:24:56 <gabe0x02> exist*
Nov 12 22:25:00 <DanBoodro> no no no, not replacing it at all
Nov 12 22:25:15 <josch> gabe0x02, as much architectures as the linux kernel supports
Nov 12 22:25:20 <ScaredyCat> 25 minutes remaining
Nov 12 22:25:27 <gabe0x02> hmm... kay
Nov 12 22:25:32 <josch> ScaredyCat, I also cannot wait for the image
Nov 12 22:25:43 <DanBoodro> we are already working on a few different projects for openmoko, but keeping them to ourselves until completion
Nov 12 22:25:45 <DanBoodro> :D
Nov 12 22:25:51 <gabe0x02> well I'll be back... not thru with you guys yet... :) but I should do some work today... thanks guys
Nov 12 22:25:52 <josch> DanBoodro, -_-
Nov 12 22:26:44 <DanBoodro> like i said only an idea
Nov 12 22:27:07 <g-e> will i be able to run all my normal shellscripts on openmoko?
Nov 12 22:27:20 <josch> g-e, it's a normal linux
Nov 12 22:27:41 <josch> g-e, I can do ash scripting on my host pc and then use this scripts on openmoko without problems
Nov 12 22:27:49 <josch> s/ash/bash/
Nov 12 22:27:49 <apt> josch meant: g-e, I can do bash scripting on my host pc and then use this scripts on openmoko without problems
Nov 12 22:28:12 <DanBoodro> i'll keep you guys updated on what we're doing
Nov 12 22:28:18 <DanBoodro> heading out for now though
Nov 12 22:29:08 <DanBoodro> thanks for all the help, info, and listening to my ideas
Nov 12 22:29:10 <g-e> josch: ok. cool. can i install stuff like php-cli ?
Nov 12 22:29:27 <g-e> can i do "apt-get install php4-cli" ?
Nov 12 22:29:29 <josch> yeah, you can install perl, python, bash, php...
Nov 12 22:29:30 <abraxa_> Sure, DanBoodro, and have fun :)
Nov 12 22:29:42 <DanBoodro> ok, buhbye
Nov 12 22:29:46 <josch> g-e, you can do ipkg install php4
Nov 12 22:29:53 <josch> openmoko uses ipkg
Nov 12 22:29:59 <g-e> ok
Nov 12 22:30:34 <g-e> is it using X?
Nov 12 22:30:48 <ScaredyCat> yes
Nov 12 22:31:11 <ScaredyCat> well, it's using matchbox
Nov 12 22:31:26 <josch> but you can replace matchbox with any other wm
Nov 12 22:31:36 <josch> I'm using E17
Nov 12 22:31:42 <g-e> so why is google doing all this android stuff? why not just use openmoko?
Nov 12 22:31:56 <josch> maybe because openmoko is too open?
Nov 12 22:32:06 <ScaredyCat> yes
Nov 12 22:32:16 <dcordes> g-e, market share.
Nov 12 22:32:16 <josch> that's why android is NO alternative to openmoko
Nov 12 22:32:24 <ScaredyCat> but there's no reason you can't put propriatory stuff on it
Nov 12 22:32:42 <josch> ScaredyCat, you can also put proprietary stuff on every linux
Nov 12 22:32:56 <g-e> dcordes: what do you mean?
Nov 12 22:33:16 <ScaredyCat> yes, i know... but the fact that it's 'too open' isn;t a valid reason not to use it
Nov 12 22:33:18 <g-e> josch: "too open"?
Nov 12 22:33:32 <josch> g-e, openmoko is 100% gpl
Nov 12 22:33:44 <josch> android is apache license? not sure
Nov 12 22:34:07 <g-e> josch: so what would be googles problem with gpl from your point of view?
Nov 12 22:34:35 <ScaredyCat> it's as open as any it's not google that have the problemlinux distro
Nov 12 22:34:38 <ScaredyCat> oops 
Nov 12 22:34:45 <ScaredyCat> it's not google that have the problem
Nov 12 22:34:56 <ScaredyCat> it's the mobile phone carriers that do
Nov 12 22:35:48 <g-e> whats google motivation to do android in the first place?
Nov 12 22:36:13 <g-e> ScaredyCat: whats their problem with gpl code?
Nov 12 22:36:28 <ScaredyCat> they get free marketing when people say 'hey look at my googlephone' without them actually having to make hte phone
Nov 12 22:36:42 <ScaredyCat> carriers?
Nov 12 22:36:50 <Jiten> g-e: they want to be able to add their own proprietary restrictions of course.
Nov 12 22:36:58 <balrog-kun> g-e: it forces them to contribute back when they have write code (to limited extent ofcourse) and to open specs
Nov 12 22:36:58 <nelson> My understanding is that they want everyone to be able to adopt Android ... even the people who want to make proprietary changes to it.
Nov 12 22:37:06 <balrog-kun> that's why they say GPL is viral
Nov 12 22:37:07 <nelson> Thus, all the GPL stuff in OpenMoko is useless to Android.
Nov 12 22:37:08 <ScaredyCat> carriers don;t want you to get their source code....
Nov 12 22:37:12 <nelson> Hence all the reimplementation going on.
Nov 12 22:37:34 <g-e> Jiten: what restrictions?
Nov 12 22:37:39 * dcordes doesn't want to push the hype and observes silently :x
Nov 12 22:37:43 <Jiten> who knows, depends on the carrier
Nov 12 22:37:49 <balrog-kun> g-e: read up on gpl
Nov 12 22:37:51 <fgau> g-e: you're a market researcher for a great company?
Nov 12 22:38:07 <balrog-kun> g-e: you didn't do your homeowrk :)
Nov 12 22:38:17 <ScaredyCat> the gpl *requires* the release of the source code. 
Nov 12 22:38:22 <g-e> balrog-kun: hmm... they would only have to contribute back when they modify linux. they could put applications on top of it without opening the code of the apps.
Nov 12 22:38:47 <balrog-kun> g-e: yes, and android makes that especially easy for them (as the kernel under android is GPL)
Nov 12 22:39:11 <g-e> fgau: i research the market for fun. why do you ask?
Nov 12 22:39:28 <ScaredyCat> the neo + opemoko is still a valid platform for propriatory applications. You just can't link with or use gpl code - unless you're prepared to release you code too
Nov 12 22:40:19 <fgau> g-e: only for my interest
Nov 12 22:40:24 <fgau> ;)
Nov 12 22:40:29 <josch> like nvidia binary does when linking with gpl kernel headers... 
Nov 12 22:40:53 <g-e> where did you guys get your neo from? i would like to try one, but i guess no store has it in germany. anyone from germany here?
Nov 12 22:41:01 <ScaredyCat> kernel modules are exceptions iirc
Nov 12 22:41:07 <ScaredyCat> specifically
Nov 12 22:41:10 <bmk789_> is there a bot in here?
Nov 12 22:41:10 <josch> g-e, a lot are from germany
Nov 12 22:41:13 <Jiten> g-e: neo isn't widely available yet.
Nov 12 22:41:26 <ScaredyCat> bmk789_ yes, apt
Nov 12 22:41:50 <bmk789_> ScaredyCat: what does it do?  just log?
Nov 12 22:41:59 <ScaredyCat> g-e: not in the shops - www.openmoko.com
Nov 12 22:42:06 <ScaredyCat> bmk789_ lots!
Nov 12 22:42:12 <ScaredyCat> !ombug 799
Nov 12 22:42:13 <cdbot2> * * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Nov 12 22:42:14 <cdbot2> * * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards
Nov 12 22:42:15 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799
Nov 12 22:42:20 <g-e> ScaredyCat: yeah i know. but i would like to try one with my hands.
Nov 12 22:42:21 <ScaredyCat> wrong bot :/
Nov 12 22:42:32 <ScaredyCat> ~lart bmk789_
Nov 12 22:42:32 * apt pours hot grits down the front of bmk789_'s pants
Nov 12 22:42:50 <bmk789_> ow
Nov 12 22:43:14 <ScaredyCat> there are quite a few german owners methinks
Nov 12 22:43:28 <CVirus> Is it easier to build OpenMoko using Qemu or Xephyr ?
Nov 12 22:43:32 <bmk789_> like do we have a bot that we could type !3g and it would display a snippet about 3g for the neo
Nov 12 22:43:34 <abraxa_> g-e: Where are you located?
Nov 12 22:43:49 <Any_Key> morning all
Nov 12 22:43:56 <ScaredyCat> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners
Nov 12 22:43:56 <g-e> abraxa_: germany
Nov 12 22:44:01 <josch> ScaredyCat, just check out #neo1973-germany
Nov 12 22:44:09 <abraxa_> g-e: I know. I mean where ;p
Nov 12 22:44:15 <g-e> abraxa_: hamburg :)
Nov 12 22:44:20 <abraxa_> Ah okay
Nov 12 22:44:24 * josch = munich
Nov 12 22:44:43 * ScaredyCat used to live in Celle
Nov 12 22:44:45 <Any_Key> CVirus, depends what you want to do with it
Nov 12 22:44:47 <g-e> you ordered your NEOs for fun? how much did you pay?
Nov 12 22:45:08 <josch> ScaredyCat, why aren't you in our german neo channel then?
Nov 12 22:45:18 <CVirus> Any_Key: I want to write a python based application for the OpenMoko that will use the bluetooth hardware
Nov 12 22:45:19 <ScaredyCat> I'm not german
Nov 12 22:45:31 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: oranjes in our channel?! wtf =(
Nov 12 22:45:43 <ScaredyCat> I'm not Dutch either
Nov 12 22:45:57 <abraxa_> Aww pooies, was so wanting to tease you
Nov 12 22:46:09 <josch> ScaredyCat, but you are in netherlands right now
Nov 12 22:46:20 <ScaredyCat> yes, I have a house here
Nov 12 22:46:26 <josch> o0
Nov 12 22:46:34 <ScaredyCat> which I'm trying to sell...
Nov 12 22:46:46 <josch> ScaredyCat, you are coming quite around
Nov 12 22:46:47 <fgau> g-e. moin moin
Nov 12 22:46:52 <ScaredyCat> so I'm here for 2 weeks, then in uk for 2 weeks
Nov 12 22:46:54 <ScaredyCat> etc
Nov 12 22:46:59 <g-e> fgau: tach auch
Nov 12 22:47:27 <Any_Key> CVirus, well I thunk better solution for you is to build it as x86, run in Xoo & friends on the desktop
Nov 12 22:47:42 <ScaredyCat> josch: it's not much fun though
Nov 12 22:48:15 <josch> ScaredyCat, I quite envy you because you can travel so much
Nov 12 22:48:35 <CVirus> Any_Key: this is it ? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2
Nov 12 22:48:36 <Any_Key> CVirus, dont think qemu will provide you access to working blue-tooth
Nov 12 22:48:58 <ScaredyCat> josch: you might, until you started to hate it 
Nov 12 22:50:49 <ScaredyCat> dunno if you're married or not josch, but I only get to see my wife and dogs every couple of weeks
Nov 12 22:51:19 <josch> ScaredyCat, well, thats a reason - I'm single and enjoy me freedom
Nov 12 22:51:48 <Any_Key> CVirus, yes, take a look on developer guides on wiki and look in too OpenMoko RSS reader (Python/PyGtk based)
Nov 12 22:52:21 <CVirus> Any_Key: cool .. thanks
Nov 12 22:52:33 <Any_Key> CVirus, not at all
Nov 12 22:52:41 <ScaredyCat> josch: then travel while you can :)
Nov 12 22:53:08 <flexd> ScaredyCat: have you done python + gtk stuff before? >_>
Nov 12 22:53:28 <flexd> This is like the maximum noob question, but for some reason i cant manage to add text to TextViews :(
Nov 12 22:56:18 <ScaredyCat> no, not really a python person, although I am learning it... I just can't stand the gtk weirdness
Nov 12 22:56:54 <ScaredyCat> <---- sleeps
Nov 12 22:57:17 <josch> ScaredyCat, g'night
Nov 12 22:57:23 <ScaredyCat> nite
Nov 12 22:57:48 <magumbade> hello 
Nov 12 22:58:34 <magumbade> is there anybody who got the neo1973 making a phone call? 
Nov 12 22:59:14 <magumbade> I already updated the latest kernel and the snapshot from today
Nov 12 22:59:29 <magumbade> but I can not get the phone registered
Nov 12 22:59:33 <magumbade> any idea?
Nov 12 22:59:45 <SpeedEvil> magumbade: where in hte world are you?
Nov 12 22:59:53 <magumbade> germany
Nov 12 23:00:23 <magumbade> it's a o2 prepaid card inside
Nov 12 23:01:43 <magumbade> I disabled also the PIN in the hope it can registrate himself
Nov 12 23:03:16 <magumbade> speedevil: it's that all you can say? :-/
Nov 12 23:03:40 <SpeedEvil> Well - I was going to follow up with if he was in the US, that it is possibly an 850MHz problem.
Nov 12 23:04:19 <SpeedEvil> magumbade: I'd now try 'manually using GSM' as foiund on the wiki
Nov 12 23:04:41 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
Nov 12 23:06:03 <magumbade> speedevil: well :-)
Nov 12 23:06:41 <josch> magumbade, well can you connect with ssh to your phone?
Nov 12 23:06:43 <magumbade> I hoped to use another way ....the latest snapshot should ask automatically for the pin after boot
Nov 12 23:06:58 <magumbade> yes...shure I can connect
Nov 12 23:07:02 <SpeedEvil> mug: I was meaning if you've never had it working, it's a good idea.
Nov 12 23:07:49 <josch> magumbade, did you try libgsmd-tool?
Nov 12 23:08:26 <cesarb> (back from a loong hiatus) where can I find ljp's latest images? I forgot where they were, and am only getting the 2007-09-18 one
Nov 12 23:09:13 <josch> magumbade, ??
Nov 12 23:09:55 <cesarb> nm, found it
Nov 12 23:10:04 <magumbade> josch: not yet
Nov 12 23:10:45 <josch> magumbade, I do not trust the GUI - I always use libgsmd-tools to do my phone/sms stuff
Nov 12 23:10:56 * cesarb was going into "devices" instead of "downloads", and the devices part only points to the old release
Nov 12 23:10:57 <josch> magumbade, do you know how to use it?
Nov 12 23:10:58 <magumbade> I just got end of last week my openmoko phone...this are my first steps
Nov 12 23:11:05 <josch> ah kk
Nov 12 23:11:24 <josch> but if you can ssh into it you can do anything
Nov 12 23:11:33 <magumbade> yes...
Nov 12 23:11:34 <josch> just fire up libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 23:11:54 <josch> and type O ENTER to switch on the gsm chip
Nov 12 23:12:00 <josch> then r ENTER to register
Nov 12 23:12:00 <magumbade> I was flashing different kernels and jffs2 images with the same result
Nov 12 23:12:22 <josch> and if this is done try Dxxxxxxxxx for dialing your number
Nov 12 23:14:01 <magumbade> gsmd is running
Nov 12 23:14:23 <josch> magumbade, are you into libgsmd-tools?
Nov 12 23:14:27 <magumbade> I fired up libgsmg-tool
Nov 12 23:14:44 <magumbade> but is shows me only that is made by harald welte
Nov 12 23:14:49 <josch> yeah
Nov 12 23:14:56 <josch> you have to type O
Nov 12 23:14:59 <josch> and hit enter
Nov 12 23:15:07 <josch> this will switch on gsm
Nov 12 23:15:11 <josch> then r etc...
Nov 12 23:15:17 <josch> as I explained above
Nov 12 23:16:16 <magumbade> if the gsm daemon is not running...then I can not fired up libgsmd-tool
Nov 12 23:16:28 <magumbade> I am starting the daemon...
Nov 12 23:16:30 <josch> magumbade, thats right
Nov 12 23:16:41 <josch> /etc/init.d/gsmd start
Nov 12 23:16:46 <magumbade> and I can enter libgsmd-tool but that's it
Nov 12 23:17:01 <josch> magumbade if it shows this screen:
Nov 12 23:17:19 <josch> root@fic-gta01:~$ libgsmd-tool -m shell
Nov 12 23:17:20 <josch> libgsm-tool - (C) 2006 by Harald Welte
Nov 12 23:17:20 <josch> This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
Nov 12 23:17:29 <josch> you've done everything right
Nov 12 23:17:38 <josch> are you there?
Nov 12 23:19:15 <magumbade> yes
Nov 12 23:19:26 <magumbade> you saved right now my night
Nov 12 23:19:29 <magumbade> thx
Nov 12 23:19:55 <josch> magumbade, np!
Nov 12 23:20:01 <josch> magumbade, come back any time
Nov 12 23:20:08 <josch> magumbade, you are german?
Nov 12 23:20:52 <josch> josch: you can join #neo1973-germany as our german speaking channel
Nov 12 23:21:03 * josch wrote himself...
Nov 12 23:21:13 <josch> magumbade, you can join #neo1973-germany as our german speaking channel
Nov 12 23:21:49 <magumbade> yes...based in munich
Nov 12 23:21:57 <magumbade> danke
Nov 12 23:22:04 <josch> magumbade, wohoo!
Nov 12 23:22:08 * josch is also from munich
Nov 12 23:44:58 * CM takes a nap
Nov 12 23:45:19 <benni_> good night
Nov 12 23:45:31 <CM> Night :)
Nov 12 23:47:25 <josch> night
Nov 12 23:58:39 <Writchie> cesarb: welcome back - assume you've heard the 850 bad news
Nov 12 23:59:33 <cesarb> Writchie: yes, I heard (read) about them already
Nov 12 23:59:51 <cesarb> Writchie: in fact, I already found the "community updates" wiki page
Nov 13 00:00:43 <cesarb> Writchie: it's a bit sad that one of my best friends (which helped me with the bureaucratic import mess) will not be able to buy a 02 and use it, since his carrier is Vivo (the CDMA one, and the only one which uses GSM 850)
Nov 13 00:01:22 <Die_> hello everyone
Nov 13 00:01:46 <Die_> i've got a problem with my neo, i have been charging it for 2 days now and it isn't powering up at all
Nov 13 00:01:51 <Writchie> cesarb: there's hope for a two different tri-band models but it does solve all needs, i think you have some mixed 850/900 in brasil
Nov 13 00:02:13 <Writchie> cesarb: got to run - be back in a bit
Nov 13 00:02:15 <cesarb> Writchie: OTOH, it has lifted a cloud of doubt. now there's certainty as to why 850 was broken, and thus the resource waste looking for it went away
Nov 13 00:02:27 <josch> Die_, this should not be happening
Nov 13 00:02:33 <Writchie|dinner> cesarb: ack
Nov 13 00:03:06 <cesarb> Writchie: IIRC it's 900/1800 (europe style), except for the CDMA carrier which used a bit of its allocations for GSM (and thus the 850)
Nov 13 00:03:16 <Die_> josch: yes it shouldn't , but it is happening, and i have no idea why, i also tried to pull the battery out for a couple of seconds before charging it to reset ther hardware and itsnot helping
Nov 13 00:03:38 <josch> Die_, are you pressing the power on button for a few seconds?
Nov 13 00:03:56 <cesarb> Writchie|dinner: all the other carriers either were TDMA before or were always GSM, and IIRC the 1900 band is still unused
Nov 13 00:04:03 <Die_> yes i did , usually it makes it shake briefly and boot up and since a few days, nothing
Nov 13 00:04:26 <josch> Die_, tried with a fully charged nokia battery?
Nov 13 00:04:47 <Die_> i don't have a nokia
Nov 13 00:04:53 <josch> Die_, you can use BL-6C and BL-5C nokia batteries
Nov 13 00:05:01 <josch> Die_, just ask a friend!
Nov 13 00:06:29 <jpkotta> hello, i'm having trouble with gsm
Nov 13 00:06:37 <josch> jpkotta, ah anotherone
Nov 13 00:06:52 <Die_> any idea what's wrong?
Nov 13 00:06:53 <jpkotta> we know it worked before, we could make calls
Nov 13 00:07:03 <jpkotta> root@fic-gta01:~$ gsmd -s 115200 -p /dev/ttySAC0
Nov 13 00:07:09 <Die_> i've been reading hardware reset is about 20 seconds without battery
Nov 13 00:07:10 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:33 2007 <1> machine.c:131:gsmd_machine_plugin_init() detected 'GTA01' hardware
Nov 13 00:07:10 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:33 2007 <1> machine.c:72:gsmd_machine_plugin_load() loading machine plugin "generic"
Nov 13 00:07:10 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:33 2007 <1> vendor.c:75:gsmd_vendor_plugin_load() loading vendor plugin "ti"
Nov 13 00:07:10 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:33 2007 <1> machine.c:56:gsmd_machine_plugin_find() selecting machine plugin "generic"
Nov 13 00:07:10 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:34 2007 <1> atcmd.c:681:atcmd_drain() c_iflag = 0x00000000, c_oflag = 0x00000000, c_cflag = 0x000018b2, c_lflag = 0x00000a30
Nov 13 00:07:12 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:34 2007 <1> vendor.c:59:gsmd_vendor_plugin_find() selecting vendor plugin "TI Calypso"
Nov 13 00:07:14 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:34 2007 <1> atcmd.c:627:atcmd_wakeup_modem() try to wake up
Nov 13 00:07:16 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:34 2007 <1> atcmd.c:644:atcmd_submit() submitting command `ATZ'
Nov 13 00:07:18 <jpkotta> Mon Nov 12 17:32:37 2007 <1> atcmd.c:585:wakeup_timeout() Wakeup time out!!
Nov 13 00:07:19 <josch> jpkotta, use pastbin
Nov 13 00:07:32 <josch> jpkotta, don't spam the cahnnel
Nov 13 00:07:38 <jpkotta> sorry
Nov 13 00:07:53 <josch> jpkotta, you can not run gsmd like this
Nov 13 00:08:16 <josch> you have to power up/reset and initialize the gsm modem first
Nov 13 00:08:35 <josch> why don't you use /etc/init.d/gsmd start ?
Nov 13 00:08:35 <jpkotta> like with that echo  1 > /sys...
Nov 13 00:08:51 <balrog-kun> and you need to enable the hw flow control too (-F i think)
Nov 13 00:09:02 <balrog-kun> maybe -F alone would suffice even
Nov 13 00:09:02 <josch> balrog-kun, right
Nov 13 00:09:12 <josch> just use the init file
Nov 13 00:09:37 <josch> jpkotta, why do you want to run it like this?
Nov 13 00:10:49 <jpkotta> because i wanted to see the output, i see that it logs to a file in /tmp now
Nov 13 00:11:06 <jpkotta> the output looks similar, it's still timing out
Nov 13 00:11:16 <josch> jpkotta, I did the same what you want to accomplish just today
Nov 13 00:11:45 <josch> jpkotta, I simply copied /etc/init.d/gsmd to my home dir
Nov 13 00:11:53 <josch> and then edited the one line
Nov 13 00:12:04 <josch> start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/sbin/gsmd -- gsmd -p $GSM_DEV $GSMD_OPTS >/tmp/gsm.log 2>&1 &
Nov 13 00:12:05 <josch> to
Nov 13 00:12:08 <josch> start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/sbin/gsmd -- gsmd -p $GSM_DEV $GSMD_OPTS
Nov 13 00:12:19 <josch> then I did /etc/init.d/gsdm stop
Nov 13 00:12:26 <josch> and ./gsmd start
Nov 13 00:12:38 <josch> it will do the same initialization as in the init file
Nov 13 00:12:43 <josch> but will not deamonize
Nov 13 00:12:51 <josch> and print everything nicely to the console
Nov 13 00:13:24 <jpkotta> i'm using tail  on the log file, that should do the same thing
Nov 13 00:13:35 <josch> jpkotta, yeah but
Nov 13 00:14:02 <josch> my problem with this was, that I could not see what the reaction to a specific command I typed was instantly
Nov 13 00:14:20 <jpkotta> true
Nov 13 00:14:34 <josch> jpkotta, hope I could help
Nov 13 00:14:39 <josch> will go to sleep now
Nov 13 00:14:46 <jpkotta> thanks
Nov 13 00:14:49 <josch> np
Nov 13 00:32:59 <mypapit> ok, gtg now.. have phun!
Nov 13 00:39:08 <jpkotta> Die_: I was not leaving the battery out long enough to reset the hardware.  It works now.  Thanks.
Nov 13 00:44:48 <bmk789_> question
Nov 13 00:45:05 <bmk789_> is openmoko 3g support limited by hardware or software?
Nov 13 00:45:10 <summatusmentis> hardware
Nov 13 00:45:13 <summatusmentis> afaik
Nov 13 00:45:49 <bmk789_> so if i installed openmoko on say.. an AT&T 8525 with 3G it would be possible to use 3G
Nov 13 00:45:56 <bmk789_> if the driver was written of course
Nov 13 00:46:25 <raster> *IF you COULD installed OM on an 8525
Nov 13 00:46:35 <raster> lots of if's before you even get there
Nov 13 00:46:39 <bmk789_> truer
Nov 13 00:46:42 <bmk789_> true*
Nov 13 00:48:09 <bmk789_> but how likely is it for openmoko to have 3G drivers at all?
Nov 13 00:48:20 <SpeedEvil> bmidgley: at the moment
Nov 13 00:48:35 <SpeedEvil> bmk789_: absolutely all effort is going into getting GTA02 out the door
Nov 13 00:48:49 <SpeedEvil> bmk789_: and getting hte software working on the neo1973
Nov 13 00:48:57 <raster> OM is the company that makes phones and does an open OS for them
Nov 13 00:48:59 <raster> OpenMoko
Nov 13 00:49:03 <raster> until our phones do 3G
Nov 13 00:49:08 <SpeedEvil> you want it working on your phone/camera/... then you do it yourself.
Nov 13 00:49:09 <raster> we are not puttin any effort into 3G
Nov 13 00:49:12 <SpeedEvil> Err - no
Nov 13 00:49:18 <raster> as thats not anyuse to us
Nov 13 00:49:28 <raster> BUT
Nov 13 00:49:30 <raster> as its open
Nov 13 00:49:35 <raster> you are free to add the support yourselves
Nov 13 00:49:38 <SpeedEvil> Openmoko is the - sponsored by FIC - company working on hte OS only
Nov 13 00:49:43 <raster> though i belive it should (mostly) work
Nov 13 00:49:54 <SpeedEvil> FIC is producing the Neo1973
Nov 13 00:50:04 <SpeedEvil> with input from the OM team of course
Nov 13 00:51:07 <raster> SpeedEvil: thats not the way it actually works :)
Nov 13 00:51:21 <SpeedEvil> raster: ah ignore me then.
Nov 13 00:51:22 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 13 00:51:23 <raster> fic basically acts as hw design/manufacturing
Nov 13 00:51:35 <raster> OM sells the phone
Nov 13 00:51:37 <raster> specs the phone
Nov 13 00:51:42 <raster> does software for the phone
Nov 13 00:51:53 <raster> much like foxconn do the manufacturing for apple
Nov 13 00:51:59 <raster> and apple fdeos the rest for the iphone
Nov 13 00:52:06 <SpeedEvil> that's what I was trying to say.
Nov 13 00:52:07 <raster> except fic do a bit more on he hw side
Nov 13 00:52:11 <raster> BUT
Nov 13 00:52:21 <raster> fic doesnt go produce independant phones of their own
Nov 13 00:52:24 <raster> and turn up and say \
Nov 13 00:52:29 <raster> "want ti put OM on this?"
Nov 13 00:52:35 <SpeedEvil> No, it's specced by OM of course
Nov 13 00:52:36 <raster> the phone and software are very much tied
Nov 13 00:53:57 <raster> the point is
Nov 13 00:54:04 <raster> we are not like ubuntu
Nov 13 00:54:12 <raster> trying to make OM run on every phone imaginable
Nov 13 00:54:18 <raster> phones are just not open
Nov 13 00:54:24 <raster> the barrier for entry is too high
Nov 13 00:54:29 <SpeedEvil> Yet.
Nov 13 00:54:34 <raster> so we work on making OM work on our phones
Nov 13 00:54:41 <raster> because the barrier of entry is low
Nov 13 00:54:51 <raster> and if you can/wantto make it work on your phone
Nov 13 00:54:52 <raster> go for it
Nov 13 00:55:00 <bmk789__> i understand
Nov 13 00:55:02 <raster> its open
Nov 13 00:55:08 <SpeedEvil> The ideal case for FIC I imagine (other than FIC achieves world dominance) is that OM gets put on everyones phone by users, and eventually the makers start doing it too
Nov 13 00:55:08 <bmk789__> hopefully ill be able to
Nov 13 00:55:12 <raster> we will not stop you
Nov 13 00:55:26 <raster> - chances are if we end up with working ports of om to multiple usable platofmrs
Nov 13 00:55:30 <SpeedEvil> and then FIC is playing on a level playing field with Nokia et al.
Nov 13 00:55:33 <raster> they'd be supported eventually as om profiles
Nov 13 00:57:00 <raster> but our focus is to get om to work on our stuff
Nov 13 00:57:01 <raster> as we have it
Nov 13 00:57:03 <raster> in our hands
Nov 13 00:57:07 <raster> :)
Nov 13 00:58:53 <bmk789_again> well best of luck to you it is an amazing device
Nov 13 00:59:26 <raster> :)
Nov 13 00:59:35 <raster> so - you want it on your phone
Nov 13 00:59:42 <raster> you biggrest problems will be getting linux to boot
Nov 13 00:59:54 <raster> and then get all the necessary devicde drivers working
Nov 13 01:00:36 <bmk789_again> ive got an ipaq im currently experimenting with
Nov 13 01:00:37 <raster> video, audio, flash, gsm/gprs/3g etc. serial interface, bluetooth etc. etc. etc.
Nov 13 01:01:09 <bmk789_again> and drivers would be VERY hard to find if the even exist i assume?
Nov 13 01:08:00 <raster> bmk789_again: "find" is more a matter of "are they in the kernel already or in x yes/no"
Nov 13 01:08:24 <raster> if they are - you still may need to modify them to find the right device resoruces as they are hooked up on your device
Nov 13 01:08:46 <raster> finding 3rd party drivers is likely just not going to help u at all as there are very few of them
Nov 13 01:09:41 <SpeedEvil> bmk789_again: if they don't exist, you basically have to create them. And you usually will not have documentation on the hardware, so only reverse engineering will work.
Nov 13 01:09:56 <SpeedEvil> If you enjoy that, then great!
Nov 13 01:11:26 <raster> if you enjoy that... you possible need a room with padding
Nov 13 01:11:27 <raster> :)
Nov 13 01:18:08 <Writchie> cesarb: ping
Nov 13 01:27:07 <Die_> pong
Nov 13 01:32:09 <cesarb> Writchie: here
Nov 13 01:34:59 <PITABoy> ping
Nov 13 01:42:27 <Writchie> cesarb: didn't you do a bit of qemu work?
Nov 13 01:43:29 <Writchie> goggle did a bunch of qemu fixes the've release, including compiling under gcc 4.1 from the looks of it!
Nov 13 01:44:14 <Die_> jpkotta: i tried leaving the phone without battery for about an hour, it didn't help
Nov 13 02:03:47 <cesarb> Writchie: I don't recall any qemu work of mine...
Nov 13 02:04:00 <cesarb> Writchie: and in particular nothing related to gcc 4.x
Nov 13 02:05:04 <Writchie> ok - must have confused it with somebody else
Nov 13 02:05:14 <cesarb> Writchie: the only qemu-related thing I recall doing is some very small mokomakefile additions
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 13 02:59:56 2007