**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 15 02:59:57 2007 Nov 15 04:25:45 someone tell me Nov 15 04:26:00 what are the three buttons along the top row when a call is incoming? Nov 15 04:26:14 the images are broken on my phone, and I don't know which one is 'answer call' Nov 15 05:22:57 CM, my build 2007.2 get failed at "make openmoko-devel-image" when try from Scratch, Error you can see here http://pastebin.ca/772927 Nov 15 05:24:52 Looks like sqlite version 3.4.1 isn't available for download any more. Nov 15 05:25:38 mwester, yes I go through that site there no sqlite version available for download. Nov 15 05:26:54 ChanServ, why i dont have access to #linuxindia and #cpp Nov 15 05:27:10 ChanServ, why did you remove from there Nov 15 05:30:37 atul: Was another guy who had that problem yesterday Nov 15 05:31:47 CM, I am that one I alos tells same problme yesterday Nov 15 05:31:48 He changed the .bb file to point to http://cs.emich.edu/mbsd/mports/distfiles/sqlite-3.4.1.tar.gz and then it worked Nov 15 05:31:52 Ah, ok Nov 15 05:32:03 Sorry, woke up about 5 minutes ago :D Nov 15 05:32:32 CM, I want whitch .bb file to change tell me path Nov 15 05:35:12 In your moko folder, look for openembedded/packages/sqlite/sqlite3.inc Nov 15 05:36:00 There, try changing the SRC_URI on row 7 to some repository that has the files Nov 15 05:39:52 CM, where {PV} is locate can you know ? Nov 15 05:40:22 3.5.2 seems to compile, but I don't know what part of openmoko uses it, which makes it hard to test. Nov 15 05:47:28 mwester, can you konw {PV} on which file it is located Nov 15 05:48:06 PV is defined by the filename of the .bb file Nov 15 05:48:51 mwester, but it is sql version i have to change that one to everywhere thats why i ask you Nov 15 05:50:47 That's not how bitbake works. Bitbake will sort the sqlite*.bb files, and select the most recent one, and use that name to compute the value for PV Nov 15 05:51:25 atul: It's like PV in gentoo, just change the http:// part :) Nov 15 05:51:33 * CM is having breakfast Nov 15 05:52:21 So if you want to use sqlite version 3.5.2, you must copy sqlite3_3.4.1.bb to sqlite3_3.5.2.bb, and the directory sqlite3-3.4.1 to sqlite-3.5.2, and then bitbake will select that bb file and attempt to use the new version. Nov 15 05:53:09 CM is suggesting a wiser course of action -- just change the http: path so that the 3.4.1 version can be found -- we do not know if the 3.5.2 will actually work (just that it compiles). Nov 15 05:53:30 * mwester thinks CM is up waay too early. Nov 15 05:53:45 mwester: I'm usually up around 6 Nov 15 05:54:02 But only because I have to.. I hate getting up early, but work is work.. Nov 15 05:54:04 That's not morning! That's still "last night" Nov 15 05:54:07 Hehe Nov 15 05:54:27 Well, I'm always short on sleep, never manage to go to bed before midnight Nov 15 06:01:42 moin Nov 15 06:43:47 people were reporting this yesterday Nov 15 06:43:59 whoops, I was stuck in the scrollback Nov 15 06:44:04 :) Nov 15 07:35:42 Mighty phone SoC: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9690870107.html Nov 15 07:38:11 CM, o0 Nov 15 07:39:28 They claim "all day" battery life, but I assume that's mostly sleeping, or a huge battery Nov 15 07:41:12 Marcel_M, hi! Nov 15 07:41:51 Marcel_M, is there a list of stuff that is packet inti your monster images ? Nov 15 07:42:37 s{packet init}{packed into} Nov 15 07:42:56 s{packet inti}{packed into} Nov 15 07:43:18 apt seems to not understand perl regexes Nov 15 07:45:46 morning josch! Nov 15 07:46:53 yes here it is http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=f6402932 Nov 15 07:47:27 but the current one (just uploading) got no agpsui Nov 15 07:48:54 why? Nov 15 07:50:38 Marcel_M, I see there is everything in it to use mokopedia ^^ Nov 15 07:51:05 ;) Nov 15 07:51:42 Marcel_M, ah... now I read the headline! great!! :-D Nov 15 07:52:18 :) Nov 15 07:52:22 is the lighttpd.conf already configured apropriately? Nov 15 07:52:35 should i add agpsui again? Nov 15 07:52:54 Marcel_M, well I'm just about to figure out how to use it Nov 15 07:53:13 Marcel_M, if you give me a few pointers? Nov 15 07:53:18 ist supersimple Nov 15 07:53:30 Marcel_M: Btw, if you like gps and wikipedia, you might like this too: http://www.lkozma.net/wpv/index.html Nov 15 07:53:49 just cp gllin-wrapper to root and start agpsui Nov 15 07:55:38 CM: nice tx Nov 15 07:56:17 There's so much cool things that could be done when you have gps coordinates :) Nov 15 07:59:08 josch: python-gtkinput progress? :D Nov 15 07:59:38 flexd, I found out that http://www.fcoutant.freesurf.fr/python-gdkinput.html is seven years old Nov 15 07:59:51 I know that already Nov 15 07:59:58 It would still work Nov 15 07:59:59 i hope Nov 15 08:00:15 but Nov 15 08:00:31 if nothing has to be done on this for seven years Nov 15 08:00:44 there's not exactly much to be done.. Nov 15 08:00:44 there has to be a better way to do what we want to do Nov 15 08:00:54 if he did it properly it worked perfectly Nov 15 08:00:58 no need to do more updates then ;) Nov 15 08:07:51 good morning Nov 15 08:09:18 morning Nov 15 08:13:04 flexd, I only think that more skilled people than we are would've done what we do years ago if it was necessary - so there has to be another way Nov 15 08:15:12 josch: hmm Nov 15 08:15:13 maybe Nov 15 08:49:02 is pixman broken in the openmoko repositorie? Nov 15 08:49:10 make openmoko-devel-image fails there for me Nov 15 08:49:37 I built a new image this morning with no problem Nov 15 08:49:48 Can try rebuilding pixman Nov 15 08:50:19 ok, thx :) Nov 15 08:52:03 borg_: NOTE: package pixman-0.9.5: completed Nov 15 08:52:14 http://pastebin.ca/774463 Nov 15 08:52:16 mh Nov 15 08:52:21 it is a linker problem Nov 15 08:52:34 i should try to rebuild libgdk-x11 Nov 15 08:52:40 *nod* Nov 15 09:13:30 is the wiki down? I can't connect Nov 15 09:13:48 works fine for me Nov 15 09:14:29 hmm maybe it's my network connection being odd, but other things work Nov 15 09:14:37 aha, now it appeared Nov 15 09:17:00 * * OM Bug 1011 has been created by openmoko(AT)twiceasgood.net Nov 15 09:17:01 * * When running qemu there are many USB DataOverrun messages Nov 15 09:17:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1011 Nov 15 09:32:35 apt: ~kick CIA-13 Nov 15 09:35:44 * ScaredyCat stabs expansys in the head Nov 15 09:38:51 ~lart CIA-13 for not reporting commits Nov 15 09:38:52 * apt slaps CIA-13 around with a large trout for not reporting commits Nov 15 09:41:41 http://kevinremde.members.winisp.net/images/yellow_wall.jpg?=rss Nov 15 09:41:46 my eyes, dear god my eyes Nov 15 09:42:17 Hehe Nov 15 09:45:04 wtf, who got in here to take pictures? Nov 15 09:47:09 ewon: what is that? Nov 15 09:49:09 Sup3rkiddo, !! Nov 15 09:49:35 josch: hey, whats cooking..just gave my exams] Nov 15 09:49:49 Sup3rkiddo, good you are online I waited for you yesterday Nov 15 09:50:02 josch: yeah had to study Nov 15 09:50:09 Sup3rkiddo, may we exchange jabber ids so we can communicate better? Nov 15 09:50:34 josch: sure, sudharsh at gmail Nov 15 09:51:25 Sup3rkiddo, gmail dot com ? Nov 15 09:52:02 josch: yeah, for me gmail is the only jabber service Nov 15 09:52:37 josch: ..and yours? Nov 15 09:52:43 hrm... somwhow I can not send you anything - try josch at mister-muffin dot de Nov 15 09:55:42 josch: yeah i am not jabber thingy, got a gmail, yahoo account? Nov 15 09:58:19 you make muffins ! ? Nov 15 09:58:57 no. :( Nov 15 09:59:05 sorry ... Nov 15 09:59:10 :-(® Nov 15 10:12:41 is the wiki wookied Nov 15 10:12:44 ? Nov 15 10:13:30 Someone else said it was slow, but I didn't notice anything Nov 15 10:14:30 84 seconds and the front page still not loaded Nov 15 10:16:03 Showed up in about 5 secs here Nov 15 10:16:19 And that's through fords stinky firewalls Nov 15 10:17:39 eeww ford Nov 15 10:17:47 Exactly Nov 15 10:19:18 you sure it's not cached ? Nov 15 10:19:48 I tried the "Recent changes" page Nov 15 10:20:26 And looked at daltona's MokoFEM page that is new Nov 15 10:21:42 morning Nov 15 10:21:50 did torpor get his moko unbricked? Nov 15 10:23:35 Don't think he's been back in here since the last try Nov 15 10:24:36 I wonder if sending him this image would make him upset: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb316/Snaileb/fail.jpg Nov 15 10:24:49 So I've been distracted by robotty things the last couple of days. What's new over here in MokoLand? Do we have a working gsmd or a gps driver yet? Nov 15 10:25:46 I think XorA has added some of mwesters patches, but CIA-13 has stopped shoing commit logs Nov 15 10:25:50 * rwhitby starts a build to make sure mokomakefile is still working. Nov 15 10:26:00 yeah, that all works, and we rewrote thegraphics driver too.. Nov 15 10:26:05 now it's all 3d Nov 15 10:26:12 yeah, right. Nov 15 10:26:19 eheh Nov 15 10:26:38 I have been paying close enough attention to have noticed something like that :- Nov 15 10:26:40 ) Nov 15 10:27:15 I want to know about the scuttlebut in the IRC channel which hasn't made it to the mailing list :-) Nov 15 10:27:22 CM: I didnt commit anything to SVN, but one of his patches was done a different way and is now in the compiled kernel Nov 15 10:27:33 XorA: Ah, ok. :) Nov 15 10:27:51 XorA: how's the MokoOE job going? Nov 15 10:28:27 wtf is a scuttlebut? Nov 15 10:29:32 wiki seems alive again CM Nov 15 10:29:34 rwhitby: ok so far, but lots of fire fighting Nov 15 10:46:27 mwester, can you please tell me sqlite problem's solutions Nov 15 10:47:50 CM, can you give me the solution of sqlite that given by mwester that is changing the .bb file name that discusstion copy part Nov 15 10:48:10 atul: Sure Nov 15 10:48:46 atul: 06:52 So if you want to use sqlite version 3.5.2, you must copy sqlite3_3.4.1.bb to sqlite3_3.5.2.bb, and the directory sqlite3-3.4.1 to sqlite-3.5.2, and then bitbake will select that bb file and attempt to use the new version. Nov 15 10:52:02 ffs it just did it again! Nov 15 10:52:31 CM, In my environment I dont have that sqlite-3.5.2 directory and sqlite3_3.5.2.bb file that is so what to do Nov 15 10:54:19 atul, than create it Nov 15 10:55:46 cp sqlite3_3.5.1.bb sqlite3_3.5.2.bb Nov 15 11:04:45 atul: looks like hrw is fixing that right now.. :) Nov 15 11:05:25 CM, I hrw where I contact him Nov 15 11:07:06 atul: It's already fixed, try a make update Nov 15 11:07:19 CM, ok Nov 15 11:08:02 it is not Nov 15 11:08:19 hrw: Just noticed.. :( Nov 15 11:08:21 hrw, have you fixed sqlite problem Nov 15 11:08:48 I saw I got the updated 3.4.2, but that file is missing too Nov 15 11:09:08 atul: The files are still missing from http://www.sqlite.org/ Nov 15 11:09:10 CM, yes same problem i face Nov 15 11:09:43 pushing 3.5.2 update now Nov 15 11:09:45 CM, yesterday itself i go thruogh there site and find the same problelm they miss that file thats why build gives problem Nov 15 11:12:11 * CM is off for lunch Nov 15 11:22:49 is /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/battvolt fairly accurate? Nov 15 11:37:03 ScaredyCat: Did you see josch's graphs? http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/battvolt2.png Nov 15 11:39:17 CM is that unplugged? Nov 15 11:39:25 I think so Nov 15 11:40:17 He said he charged with an external charger anyway Nov 15 11:41:02 hi, can someone comment about OpenMoko advantages over Android? Nov 15 11:41:28 OpenMoko is real, Android is vapour Nov 15 11:42:22 hi there Nov 15 11:43:05 edu: If you like c and python, and want to be free to do anything you want with your phone, use OpenMoko Nov 15 11:43:49 what's new in the ScaredyCat's sweats? Nov 15 11:44:08 something funny regarding android, i was at a talk given by google yesterday on android and someone asked "what about projects like openmoko.." and the google guy replied that android was "real" can u imagine the cheek of it :) Nov 15 11:44:14 bedboi: Nothing, I think he's slacking.. :P Nov 15 11:44:29 zedstar: Hehe Nov 15 11:45:34 zedstar: stupid guys Nov 15 11:45:41 google == evil Nov 15 11:45:49 if real == java, then fuck Nov 15 11:45:59 yeh they did the whole "we are the first linux mobile blah blah routine Nov 15 11:46:23 zedstar: ehm, first linux mobile? hahahahaha Nov 15 11:46:32 zedstar, did you have a neo with you and showed them?? Nov 15 11:46:44 first linux mobile? Nov 15 11:46:47 are they serious Nov 15 11:46:55 okay, that's about the developer point of view. How about the other non programmers people, what do you think? Nov 15 11:47:09 i did have my neo but the way it was setup in a big theatre i had no chance to get a question in they only took a few questions Nov 15 11:47:26 zedstar, They want credit Nov 15 11:47:47 and they think all other developer are sleeping Nov 15 11:47:50 someone asked about c/c++ development Nov 15 11:48:07 edu: do you want an advertising company to know everything you do? Nov 15 11:48:23 a mobile games developer.. there response was why would you want to do that when you can do things using their java VM Nov 15 11:48:53 was a shame nobody from openmoko was at this event as google really lapped it up Nov 15 11:49:16 zash: don't know. I'm just deciding between openmoko or android. For example: Neo1973 + Android? Nov 15 11:49:22 zedstar: you were at FOM? Nov 15 11:49:40 i did manage to get my point across to some google people in the after show party thing but i doubt it will get back Nov 15 11:49:49 zedstar: http://picasaweb.google.com/stephanemw/FutureOfMobile2007 Nov 15 11:49:55 yeh at future of mobile stephen Nov 15 11:50:07 * Stephmw winks Nov 15 11:50:30 that's the one! Nov 15 11:51:10 did u go also stephenw? Nov 15 11:51:22 no, my camera was there all by itself :D Nov 15 11:51:38 I was indeed there Nov 15 11:51:53 was u who asked openmoko question? :) Nov 15 11:52:29 edu: With OpenMoko and Neo1973 you have an actual phone, but I admit that Android has a very nice emulator and an easy dev environment Nov 15 11:53:17 the dev environment did look nice....the google guy wrote an app in 8mins live using it Nov 15 11:53:26 zedstar: no, I was interested in licensing and source release. And somebody else asked the right questions Nov 15 11:53:31 edu: but the open-ness and not-owned-by-a-company-that-profits-from-ads Nov 15 11:53:58 is the wiki down or is it loopias dns problems? Nov 15 11:54:17 zedstar: and what id the app do? Nov 15 11:54:37 i can write an app in 30 secons in c Nov 15 11:54:40 raster: nothing great....something to integrate to a web search Nov 15 11:54:41 its called hello world Nov 15 11:54:49 lol raster yeh Nov 15 11:54:53 :) Nov 15 11:54:55 hmm... when the previous two persons asked about the wiki being down I could still access it, but now I no longer can access it either... Nov 15 11:55:04 oooh integrate to web search Nov 15 11:55:05 bah Nov 15 11:55:16 i can write a dvd player in 5 mins Nov 15 11:55:27 so whats the point? Nov 15 11:55:49 not sure i think just to show click and run on emulator Nov 15 11:55:56 mmm system("/usr/bin/mplayer dvd://"); exit 0; ? Nov 15 11:56:22 Ghiottone: hahahah Nov 15 11:56:30 no Nov 15 11:56:36 one that opens its own winow Nov 15 11:56:50 and the process that is the direct result of executing the code you wrote plays the dvd Nov 15 11:57:08 its 17 lines of c Nov 15 11:57:16 uh? Nov 15 11:57:22 * stefan_schmidt feels raster start talking 10 minutes about EFL. :) Nov 15 11:57:23 using what lib? Nov 15 11:57:28 actually we added a call to emotion it'd be 18 now Nov 15 11:57:43 raster: buh, line waste. Nov 15 11:57:45 Ghiottone: emotion, evas, ecore Nov 15 11:57:49 stefan_schmidt: hahaha Nov 15 11:57:58 raster, ah I see Nov 15 11:58:09 just makign the point Nov 15 11:58:14 if you put enouhg in libraries Nov 15 11:58:19 u can write lots of apps in 5 mins Nov 15 11:58:25 * stefan_schmidt thinks cold milk is the greatest. Nov 15 11:58:26 as 99.9% of the app is in a pre-cannd library Nov 15 11:58:44 raster it would have been really kewl tho if openmoko had been there and done an app live... 6 minute abs :) Nov 15 11:59:00 hahahaha Nov 15 11:59:45 yeah Nov 15 12:00:16 "bah! web search augmentation app in 8 mins. check this out. media center in 6 minutes!" Nov 15 12:00:21 :) Nov 15 12:01:32 hi Nov 15 12:01:54 hi ktd85 Nov 15 12:02:14 does anybody know if there exists a powerpoint or so presentation over the neo1973 / openmoko os? Nov 15 12:02:37 ktd85: I only know about PDF Nov 15 12:02:53 that will be great Nov 15 12:03:02 can you give me a link ? Nov 15 12:03:14 ktd85: mom Nov 15 12:03:36 thanks Nov 15 12:05:22 ktd85: http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/fileadmin/mobiledevices/MDD07/slides/openmoko.pdf Nov 15 12:05:33 danke Nov 15 12:05:44 ktd85: That is one from mickeyl. There are a lot more from Sean and mickeyl. Just search with google Nov 15 12:05:53 ktd85: No problem. Nov 15 12:07:08 stefan_schmidt: are you active involved in the development of the openmoko osß Nov 15 12:07:09 ? Nov 15 12:07:37 ktd85: I think so, at least I work for OpenMoko Inc. ;) Nov 15 12:21:46 ok Nov 15 12:22:37 ktd85: Look around in the wiki, there's a lot of info there Nov 15 12:30:45 how can i get involved in the development? Nov 15 12:30:50 do i need a device? Nov 15 12:31:07 You can buy GTA01 now Nov 15 12:31:12 however Nov 15 12:31:21 you can basically at the moment do several things Nov 15 12:31:32 A) Qemu - this is a complete software emulator Nov 15 12:31:49 B) Compile openmoko on your x86 or whatever platform and run it there natively Nov 15 12:31:54 is http://buildhost.openmoko.org down? Nov 15 12:32:22 C) just write it as a GTK or whatever app that's suitable for the 'mouse' and display avaialbale on the Neo. Nov 15 12:34:01 when will the GTA02 be released? Nov 15 12:34:18 ktd1985: read topic Nov 15 12:34:22 stefan_schmidt: Any news on that? We're getting curious.. Nov 15 12:34:33 ktd85: Should be "Any time soon now" Nov 15 12:35:16 CM: Sorry, no idea. :( Nov 15 12:37:55 hi Nov 15 12:39:23 does anybody know where i can find the source of chrislords multitap pad? (http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten) Nov 15 13:27:57 sqlite... :D Nov 15 13:28:06 * CM plays tricks on ScaredyCat's mind Nov 15 13:28:23 there is no mind Nov 15 13:29:09 * ScaredyCat wonders about theose python types Nov 15 13:34:31 ScaredyCat, there is nothing to wonder about. Python is like the Dark Side of the force. Tasty, easy and perhaps a little evil :) Nov 15 13:35:18 * CM thinks the dark side is probably whitespace sensitive too Nov 15 13:38:51 <[AD]Turbo> hi there Nov 15 13:41:55 http://www.prostreetromania.ro/prostreet.htm Nov 15 13:41:58 lol Nov 15 13:57:44 ScaredyCat: Hehe, almost NSFW ;) Nov 15 13:57:59 * CM sits in an open office landscape Nov 15 13:58:04 aye those Romanian girls... Nov 15 13:58:10 Hehe Nov 15 14:00:58 looks like a lot of hacking for me to do when I get back to the office... Nov 15 14:01:11 usb microscope, usb drum kit.... Nov 15 14:04:22 anyone have any news about the bug #666 ? Nov 15 14:04:58 niclone: there is nothing progressed yet Nov 15 14:04:59 except that the new firmware exists but we don't have it Nov 15 14:06:34 this demonstrate the benefit of proprietary software and hardwares... Nov 15 14:07:05 !ombug 666 Nov 15 14:07:06 * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Nov 15 14:07:07 * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability Nov 15 14:07:08 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Nov 15 14:07:31 Stephmw: your package is in your sorting office :-) Nov 15 14:07:35 i take it you didn;t read the mailing list then niclone Nov 15 14:07:52 XorA: aye, somebody at home didn't feel like answer the damn door ;-) Nov 15 14:08:04 XorA: I'll pick it up tomorrow morning, thanks! Nov 15 14:08:16 i didn't notice any news about this in the mailing list also Nov 15 14:08:17 Stephmw: just thoguht Id let you know in case it was on your way home Nov 15 14:08:48 XorA: oh, it is, but the sorting offices in London close at 12:30 Nov 15 14:08:54 you can send it to XorA and he can flash it. Nov 15 14:09:05 XorA: and don't have the parcel the same day either Nov 15 14:09:05 niclone: There was some news.. Nov 15 14:09:06 he just can't let you flash it Nov 15 14:09:07 Stephmw: WTF, its something like 8pm at night here Nov 15 14:09:09 ah? Nov 15 14:09:19 XorA: yeah, it boggles the mind Nov 15 14:09:39 been a while since I lived in London Nov 15 14:09:58 niclone: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011658.html Nov 15 14:10:28 niclone: Basically, they are unable to get in contact with the people they have to talk to. Just no one answering Nov 15 14:10:38 :( Nov 15 14:10:56 Stephmw: is it true, that there are no pizza delivery services in london? :) Nov 15 14:11:20 i read The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul from douglas adans recently Nov 15 14:11:24 naaaah Nov 15 14:11:25 it says there are none :P Nov 15 14:11:28 wtf Nov 15 14:11:32 I can get a pizza in 20mins Nov 15 14:11:33 of course there are Nov 15 14:11:38 holy crap.. Nov 15 14:11:40 :D Nov 15 14:11:41 XorA: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read/1/14037/page=3 Nov 15 14:11:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Dark_Teatime_of_the_Soul Nov 15 14:11:59 I think he was being sarcastic Nov 15 14:12:01 I think you guys think we live in the dark ages still Nov 15 14:12:02 but the book is so cool :) Nov 15 14:12:10 technologically we're ahead... Nov 15 14:12:38 oops Nov 15 14:12:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_delivery#In_literature Nov 15 14:12:58 The focus of an extended passage in Douglas Adams' 1988 novel The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul was the lack of pizza delivery services in England at the time. Nov 15 14:12:59 this is the sort of crap that results in the knob heads in the US ordering 30 ISDN lines, rather than an E1 for my wife's Amsterdam office Nov 15 14:13:01 :D Nov 15 14:14:20 ... yeah, it's called Fiction for a reason :D Nov 15 14:14:25 ;) Nov 15 14:14:31 i love the novel Nov 15 14:14:54 it is better then Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy imo :) Nov 15 14:14:56 Stephmw: but it doesn't say don't dry your can on my microwave... Nov 15 14:15:07 or... ouch this host coffee is hot Nov 15 14:15:12 hot Nov 15 14:16:32 borg_: it was true in the mid eighties when the book is set... Nov 15 14:16:44 what? Nov 15 14:16:54 s/mid/early-mid/ Nov 15 14:16:54 robtaylor meant: borg_: it was true in the early-mid eighties when the book is set... Nov 15 14:16:56 of course you could get pizza delivered in the mid 80's Nov 15 14:17:06 I used to fecking work shifts, it's all we ate Nov 15 14:17:07 robtaylor: ah, ok :) Nov 15 14:17:40 ScaredyCat: maybe it depended where you were :) Nov 15 14:17:48 well, london Nov 15 14:19:32 ScaredyCat: ATM you can get it delvered at on in the morning out in Egham (pizza shop is in stains). Nov 15 14:20:12 ScaredyCat: maybe it was just difficult round white city.. Nov 15 14:21:01 Cap_J_L_Picard: cold pizza only in the morning, please :D Nov 15 14:21:18 robtaylor: weird... never had any problems at all... Nov 15 14:21:30 ScaredyCat: No, this is warm... Nov 15 14:21:44 mmm... I think i'd give it a miss :) Nov 15 14:22:03 I think 4am is my cut off point Nov 15 14:42:37 yo Nov 15 14:42:56 hows things dudes..? Nov 15 14:43:23 torpor: Any luck with the Neo? Nov 15 14:44:28 just firing up now for a debug session one more time Nov 15 14:44:34 the last one (tuesday night) wasn't good. Nov 15 14:44:52 now i've got a working GTA01 to test my board setup with, though, so i should be able to tell soon whether my jtag rig is working - on a normal phone - or not. Nov 15 14:45:48 Ok, best of luck :) Nov 15 14:45:50 i must confess that it is rather annoying not to have my neo. i was used to it being great to have around! Nov 15 14:45:58 thx Nov 15 14:53:47 hmm Nov 15 14:53:52 my SIM card no longer gets recognized Nov 15 14:53:59 ~lart gta01 sim holder Nov 15 14:53:59 * apt stabs gta01 sim holder Nov 15 14:55:42 mickeyl: seriously? Nov 15 14:57:28 ScaredyCat: you there? Nov 15 14:57:33 hmm Nov 15 14:57:36 CME ERROR 10 Nov 15 14:57:38 *sigh* Nov 15 14:57:54 i'm about to do the jtag dance.. i suppose i should just leave the tool running in a loop and wiggle as much as i can, eh? Nov 15 14:58:00 some sort of voodoo to powerup order? Nov 15 14:58:29 ooh Nov 15 14:58:35 now it's there again Nov 15 14:58:42 torpor: yeah Nov 15 14:58:49 torpor: usually i do the following Nov 15 14:58:53 detach everything from neo Nov 15 14:59:03 remove battery Nov 15 14:59:08 wait Nov 15 14:59:10 insert battery Nov 15 14:59:16 press power button for 1 second Nov 15 14:59:24 attach debug board + usb Nov 15 14:59:53 somewhere i have documented this Nov 15 14:59:59 but don't ask me on which mailing list it was Nov 15 15:00:07 great. i gotta do all that and i've got two dodgy connectors while i'm at it (the clip are gone on both sides) Nov 15 15:00:08 it's definitely a bit flakey Nov 15 15:00:25 can't you remount the clips ? are they really broken? Nov 15 15:00:33 they are really broken Nov 15 15:00:54 the debug board side has a lug missing, it can sorta be used but the cable flex flips it out quite easily. Nov 15 15:00:57 the other side is bust. Nov 15 15:01:11 i gotta say: those clips blow ass. please use a better connector, someone. Nov 15 15:01:21 i have a debug board spare. where are you located? Nov 15 15:01:23 (can't remember how many times i've complained about this on other hardware, not just neo .. . . .) Nov 15 15:01:31 i'm in vienna, austria. Nov 15 15:02:02 a spare would be nice, but getting this working now would be also nice, so i'm gonna do the dance. Nov 15 15:02:33 hi Nov 15 15:02:52 meep Nov 15 15:03:05 cM: what's that link to that graph again? Nov 15 15:03:24 http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/battvolt2.png Nov 15 15:03:28 torpor, your nick sounds familiar... did you do or are you doing some work with the gp2x? Nov 15 15:03:32 ta Nov 15 15:03:51 beno: yes, i was a bit into open2x Nov 15 15:03:55 i put midishare arm on the gp2x Nov 15 15:03:56 what was his nick CM ? Nov 15 15:03:59 and i ported bcpl .. ;) Nov 15 15:04:39 mickeyl: do you have a good config file i could know and trust? Nov 15 15:04:40 Ah yes, that was it :) nice work! I briefly had a play and ported a speccy emu for kicks, but ran out of time to do stuff at home Nov 15 15:05:20 BenO: i bricked all 5 of my gpx's, so i moved on to neo.. ;) Nov 15 15:06:20 I'm not sure whether to comisserate or congratulate you on that! How's the Neo as a hardware in comparison? Nov 15 15:06:37 BenO: Bricked.. ;) Nov 15 15:06:38 up until 2 days ago i was having a blast with the neo Nov 15 15:06:51 CM, of course... hence the JTAG :) Nov 15 15:06:53 but to be honest i like the rawness of the gp2x better. Nov 15 15:07:14 torpor: IIRC http://people.openmoko.org/werner/openocd-debugv2.cfg is what i was using last time Nov 15 15:07:20 but i have not been openocd/jtag since long Nov 15 15:07:23 (knock on wood) Nov 15 15:07:35 ok Nov 15 15:07:37 it always pushes me back to days of unproductive work Nov 15 15:07:40 well it doesn't look good here. Nov 15 15:07:56 yeah, i've lost 3 days of steam, just when i was having a great time. not fun. Nov 15 15:08:20 how did you brick it in the first place? Nov 15 15:08:22 uboot? Nov 15 15:08:42 yeah i wanted root-on-SD so i could move a big filesystem over and stop sharing it over USB .. Nov 15 15:08:47 ScaredyCat: Hmm.. I should try running that script too Nov 15 15:09:10 so i tried about 17 different uboots out to get it working, finally found one (from scaredy) that worked *just* as i flashed a very bad uboot Nov 15 15:09:13 really shit timing. Nov 15 15:10:02 so i've got the debug and usb hooked up, and my linux box is doing a loop on the devirginator cmd, and the neo is plugged in with a known good battery, and usb cable is up Nov 15 15:10:22 * CoreDump never had a problem w/ an u-boot downloaded from the official sources. And getting 17 non-working u-boots in a row is almost impossible to believe Nov 15 15:10:36 you think i have to do have neo+debug board hooked up with the ribbon cable first, *then* plug in the debug USB, or is it going to be ufficient to do the connect/disconnect between the neo and the debug board? Nov 15 15:11:11 CoreDump: the latest uboot does not do root-on-SD. the one that is known good is from may. and i did not get 17 non-working u-boot: i only got one. Nov 15 15:11:18 attaching the debug board while it has power is not a good idea Nov 15 15:11:23 ok Nov 15 15:11:28 i get it. Nov 15 15:11:56 just a safety measure Nov 15 15:12:02 no go Nov 15 15:12:19 what do you get? JTAG chain not found? Nov 15 15:12:24 yup Nov 15 15:12:27 CM : http://pastebin.ca/775255 Nov 15 15:12:53 you need to setup ssh keys otherwise it'll get very irritating Nov 15 15:13:04 torpor: bummer, i'm afraid that's the cabling then. Nov 15 15:13:37 so about that spare debug board mickeyl .. hwere you at? Nov 15 15:13:44 Frankfurt, Germany Nov 15 15:14:14 feel like shipping it to me here in vienna? Nov 15 15:14:22 letting me fix my neo, then send it back to you? Nov 15 15:14:38 or do you wanna come to vienna for the weekend, see some opera? Nov 15 15:14:39 ;) Nov 15 15:14:43 hehe Nov 15 15:14:46 =) Nov 15 15:14:50 i was travelling too much this yera Nov 15 15:14:56 at one point i'd like to meet you Nov 15 15:14:59 but not this year Nov 15 15:15:02 send me your snailmail address Nov 15 15:15:03 ok Nov 15 15:15:21 mickey@vanille-media.de Nov 15 15:16:02 nice, thanks. Nov 15 15:16:04 sent Nov 15 15:16:18 Is it possible to get a serial/terminal type connection to the OM, without using the debug board? (Just planning out an early xmas present to myself, and trying to work out if it'll cost 300 or 450 dollars...) Nov 15 15:16:22 mickeyl++ Nov 15 15:17:20 Basically, I am asking if the dev kit is worth it... Nov 15 15:17:25 mickeyl: ta very much. Nov 15 15:17:47 np. :) Nov 15 15:17:59 if i wasn't engineer, i'd like to be community dude Nov 15 15:18:07 but alas, i can only do so many things... Nov 15 15:18:08 BenO: to be honest, no. the ribbon connection to the debug board is so flakey that i would not recommend using it in a production-type system, where you want serial i/o to be reliable. Nov 15 15:18:17 BenO: if you can solder, then no Nov 15 15:18:27 also if you have a bluetooth-serial doohickey you could use that Nov 15 15:18:37 if you're not planning on doing a lot of u-boot updates, no point getting the debug board. there are other ways to do JTAG that are not as dodgy. Nov 15 15:18:38 mickeyl: Stop doing so much things. Nov 15 15:18:44 right Nov 15 15:18:47 focus. Nov 15 15:18:54 stefan_schmidt: after he does this one, last, thing fo rme .. ;) Nov 15 15:19:09 torpor: Famous last words. ;) Nov 15 15:19:27 snapshot release on weekend (no matter how good or bad it is), and then Tools Tools Tools until 31th of Dec. Nov 15 15:19:31 is the datasheet for the 2410 available from somewhere ? Samsung's site says it's "either in preparation or not effective yet" Nov 15 15:19:45 samsung's site fucking sucks Nov 15 15:19:51 whoever thought flash was a good idea needs to be shot Nov 15 15:19:54 mickeyl: nice. i hope to get back to working on apps apps apps, then, as of the weekend... Nov 15 15:19:56 mickeyl: any idea what /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgstate should read ? Nov 15 15:20:08 s/read/contain/ Nov 15 15:20:08 ScaredyCat meant: mickeyl: any idea what /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgstate should contain ? Nov 15 15:20:19 mickeyl: whats up on 31th Dec? Nov 15 15:20:43 edistar: Next year is coming? Nov 15 15:20:47 edistar: kidding Nov 15 15:20:51 lies Nov 15 15:20:52 edistar: end of the year and my hope that I can come back to platform architecture Nov 15 15:20:57 stefan_schmidt: ah, ok Nov 15 15:21:05 mickeyl: thx, what exactly are you doing now? Nov 15 15:21:33 ScaredyCat: should read fast_enabled or pre Nov 15 15:21:39 mmm.... Nov 15 15:21:40 edistar: SDK Nov 15 15:21:47 mine says Nov 15 15:21:47 ScaredyCat: interestingly i get: Nov 15 15:22:00 fast_enabled Nov 15 15:22:08 null pointers ftw Nov 15 15:22:10 looks like a kernel regression Nov 15 15:22:14 torpor, anrp ty for the advice Nov 15 15:22:22 at least you know its broken ;) Nov 15 15:22:46 I was supposed to work on framework / platform / rich APIs, but got dragged into other things Nov 15 15:23:15 so i'm going to do toolchain and SDK for now Nov 15 15:23:24 hoping i can come back to what i can do best soon Nov 15 15:24:11 mickeyl: i'm sure your toolchain work will pay off. Nov 15 15:24:40 well, it's a necessity. Nov 15 15:24:48 i have realized that too late Nov 15 15:25:01 many people are using OE who should not Nov 15 15:25:08 when i plug in the debug board, led7 flashes. thats normal right? Nov 15 15:25:11 so i'm giving them a chance to do it differently Nov 15 15:25:17 * Stephmw hugs mickeyl Nov 15 15:25:24 mickeyl: its a distro thing now, man. Nov 15 15:25:39 OE is partial to all the same rules and problems that Gentoo and Ubuntu and Debian are, etc. Nov 15 15:25:51 focus on *your* distro and its users. Nov 15 15:26:36 i wish there were some way to make sure the CPU is being reset or powerd on or something .. Nov 15 15:27:07 torpor: supply current should tell you Nov 15 15:27:11 torpor: some guys reported luck with holding the reset button until openocd has a connection Nov 15 15:27:22 SpeedEvil: how do i do that? multimeter? Nov 15 15:27:25 the shotgun approach Nov 15 15:27:27 try everything D: Nov 15 15:27:27 Forgive me I haven't looked at the Android platform chipset requirements, but is anyone contemplating a port to the Neo hardware? Nov 15 15:27:29 mickeyl: thats good info i'll try it. Nov 15 15:27:41 and if that fails, use the shotgun Nov 15 15:27:47 If you've truly wiped the flash, then there will just be the steppingstone boot code Nov 15 15:28:08 SpeedEvil: i'm pretty sure i've wiped uboot falsely .. Nov 15 15:28:14 I dunno what that'll do if there is no flash to boot - it may simply jump to the beginning of flash, and attempt to run it Nov 15 15:28:40 torpor: do you ahve a DMM? Nov 15 15:28:43 and nop around Nov 15 15:28:54 the steppingstone code is only going to get the ARM set up and then ready to boot 0x0 right? Nov 15 15:29:05 torpor: as I understand it, yes Nov 15 15:29:14 the steppingstone code is the 48K of internal RO Nov 15 15:29:15 M Nov 15 15:29:18 SpeedEvil: yes, i'm at metalab right now (http://metalab.at/) .. we've got scopes and other things too . Nov 15 15:29:31 that is only settable if you buy millions Nov 15 15:30:53 * BenO is loving the http://metalab.at/ and wants one in the UK... now! Nov 15 15:30:54 torpor: take some copper tape, 2mm wide or so. place on the edge of a 4mm bit of insulator so that it forms a 'u' with the paper in the middle. Now, cut the end, so you've got a bit of paper 4mm wide, with copper tape on both sides, insulated from each other. Attach meter to copper tape some way Nov 15 15:30:57 okay so the thing is, the battery would be at least a *bit* warm if there was something going on right? Nov 15 15:31:05 maybe not Nov 15 15:31:50 * CoreDump doubts it Nov 15 15:33:10 hi Nov 15 15:33:42 hmm Nov 15 15:33:48 is 'L' giving you results ? Nov 15 15:33:52 i can see the results coming in Nov 15 15:33:58 but they're not displayed in libgsmd-tool Nov 15 15:34:37 hu all Nov 15 15:34:46 hey Nov 15 15:35:02 i just got (Nuber of discovered devices in JTAG chain (578) doesnt match configuration (1)) Nov 15 15:35:05 thats something right? Nov 15 15:35:12 never seen that one :/ Nov 15 15:35:23 you're using openocd from OE? Nov 15 15:35:30 devirginator Nov 15 15:35:38 578 devices! Nov 15 15:35:50 there probably aren't even 578 0402 components on there Nov 15 15:35:54 ;o Nov 15 15:36:07 although i could be wrong .. 0402 is crazy small Nov 15 15:37:35 okay now i'm putting the battery back in a known-good neo and its not powering up .. so how do i reset the battery again? Nov 15 15:38:39 hope Nov 15 15:38:39 there is nothing to reset. It's probably emtpy. Happens here all the bloody time as well. And recharging is a PITA Nov 15 15:38:43 blood, sweat and tears Nov 15 15:38:53 okay i'm gonna recharge then. Nov 15 15:39:01 i will not give up until my app is ready for openmoko! :) Nov 15 15:39:05 ;) Nov 15 15:39:07 =) Nov 15 15:39:08 you might want to buy a DT14 Nov 15 15:39:12 pretty cheap Nov 15 15:39:17 if you have a bench supply, you can juice the battery with 4.1v (measure it with a multimeter first to make sure its not above 4.2) Nov 15 15:39:18 and charges the Neo battery 75% Nov 15 15:39:27 lesson to self: dont mess with uboot, Nov 15 15:40:15 and by it i mean the bench supply Nov 15 15:40:26 yeah we have a bench supply here. Nov 15 15:40:29 if the battery's dead it'll show 2.7 to 0 volts Nov 15 15:40:33 mickeyl: u-boot should probably try to charge w/ 500mA by default and ignore possible USB resets ;) A dead battery is very hard to recover from w/ todays PM config Nov 15 15:40:36 what do i do anrp? 'juice the battery' with 4.1v - how many amps? Nov 15 15:40:41 torpor, What app are you putting on openmoko? (When it's unbricked anyway) Nov 15 15:40:51 4.1v should charge the battery at a rate under an amp Nov 15 15:40:52 CoreDump: that way it will blow lots of laptops Nov 15 15:41:04 BenO: a music machine, for playing back samples and midi files, and dynamically playing live sets, over the phone line .. ;) Nov 15 15:41:05 but if you want to set a limit, set it at the mAh cap of the battery, so 850ma Nov 15 15:41:07 not blow, just crash windows =) Nov 15 15:41:11 heh Nov 15 15:41:17 torpor, similar to the gp2x one? Nov 15 15:41:29 BenO: superior in all respects! :) Nov 15 15:41:33 doesn't windows just complain if your power drain is too high? Nov 15 15:41:34 its a music tool. Nov 15 15:41:38 sort of a mini-DAW.. Nov 15 15:41:53 torpor, excellent :) and good luck! Nov 15 15:41:58 yup Nov 15 15:41:59 mickeyl: or GTA02 should ship w/ a "always 500mA" wall-charger Nov 15 15:42:10 i want to release in december, so i've gotta get this working this week. ;) Nov 15 15:42:44 CoreDump: yes, some months ago that was the plan Nov 15 15:42:46 ... Nov 15 15:42:56 torpor, Can you also hint to the people running the Metalab that opening a Lab in Oxford, UK would be nice :) Nov 15 15:43:07 The current situation (pun intended) is less than ideal ;) Nov 15 15:43:10 mickeyl: when will the gta-02-europe be shipped? Nov 15 15:44:12 mickeyl: a good guess? Nov 15 15:44:35 hmm Nov 15 15:44:37 lol - Nov 15 15:44:39 March Nov 15 15:44:42 BenO: do it yourself! :) Nov 15 15:45:08 mickeyl: ok Nov 15 15:45:27 torpor, But I'm a poor and lazy person :) Nov 15 15:45:44 then you won't have much use for a metalab oxford then! Nov 15 15:45:45 ;) Nov 15 15:45:58 but it sure is fun here, that is true. lots of very busy enthusiastic hackers. Nov 15 15:46:10 who love to scoff when i tell them i've bricked the opnmoko and it won't come back, incidentally! Nov 15 15:47:39 pfft Nov 15 15:47:42 you have one, they don't Nov 15 15:47:55 for some definitions of they Nov 15 15:50:00 is it working yet torpor? Nov 15 15:52:40 ScaredyCat: nope Nov 15 15:52:48 :/ Nov 15 15:52:48 its bad news i'm afraid. Nov 15 15:52:59 no luck with the debug board? Nov 15 15:53:02 nope Nov 15 15:53:05 I know they are a PITA... Nov 15 15:53:06 it does not work, plain and simple. Nov 15 15:53:21 but did you just keep trying and trying Nov 15 15:53:33 im gonna now test it on a working neo that i have only permission to use for a few minutes.. Nov 15 15:53:46 uh oh Nov 15 15:53:48 ScaredyCat: while (1) do ; openocd -f openocd.df done Nov 15 15:53:49 its gonna break D: Nov 15 15:53:54 .. sorry Nov 15 15:53:57 shut up! Nov 15 15:53:57 why? Nov 15 15:54:07 the tension builds.... Nov 15 15:54:19 torpor: how about a sleep in there Nov 15 15:54:26 yeah Nov 15 15:54:29 sleep 1 Nov 15 15:56:13 I just need a little more advice: I'm looking for a hacking project atm, something that has mobile connectivity and is open to play with. Is the Neo hardware good to play around with, or should i wait? Nov 15 15:56:31 as long as you only need it as a hardware platform and not a phone, the neo would work now Nov 15 15:56:43 for an hw platform, its well documented, has good accessories, etc Nov 15 15:56:46 as a phone... not so much Nov 15 15:57:13 well, you might want to consider waiting, or a nokia 770, 800 Nov 15 15:57:29 it kinda depends what you want to hack Nov 15 15:57:40 There are some fundamental hardware problems with GTA01 - but these may not effect you. Nov 15 15:57:46 okay the good neo is rigged up to the debug board. Nov 15 15:57:55 it is booted up.. i should be able to break the CPU right? Nov 15 15:58:02 Hmm, it's the 'new' set of devices such as gprs, sms'ing etc that I would like to play with. Yeah, Nokia 810 looked interesting, but it's WiFi only? Nov 15 15:58:04 ok.... Nov 15 15:58:20 BenO: get the gta02, or something else (nokia) if you can't wait. Nov 15 15:58:21 yeah the gsm is a nice touch for an hw platform Nov 15 15:58:37 BenO: wiki and bt Nov 15 15:58:40 and relative to comparable dev boards feature wise, its a fucking steal Nov 15 15:58:42 mickeyl: you still there? Nov 15 15:58:51 kind of Nov 15 15:59:01 but gta02 will have wifi, so ... Nov 15 15:59:02 drunk eh? :P Nov 15 15:59:03 torpor: you should be able to reset halt Nov 15 15:59:37 * ScaredyCat pokes at CM Nov 15 16:00:02 anrp, I'm not so interested in WiFi, it's more the shiny mobile networking/comms that I want to play around with. Nov 15 16:02:29 i would recommend it w/o question if it had an easily accessible serial port Nov 15 16:02:30 ok can i bend your ear: i have a working neo hooked up, and when i hit the reset button the neo reboots. that is nice Nov 15 16:02:36 but the JTAG apps say nothing! Nov 15 16:02:39 it doesn't... but its not impossibly accessible :/ Nov 15 16:03:09 what this means is that the debug talking to the hardware device is working, right? Nov 15 16:04:06 torpor: yeah Nov 15 16:04:49 so that is good news. Nov 15 16:05:04 it means the debug board can communicate over its flakey connection. Nov 15 16:05:20 so why is my JTAG failng .. Nov 15 16:06:01 * flexd is installing Crysis! Nov 15 16:06:14 i don't think that's causing his problem :p Nov 15 16:08:14 I am building a linux software to OM, I converted the Makefile into a bb file but I need to link to some libs Nov 15 16:08:27 for example I was using "LDFLAGS += -lpthread" in the Makefile Nov 15 16:09:09 can I do the same in my bb file? for example can I add values to ${LDFLAGS} ? Nov 15 16:09:16 a quickie heretic question for you guys... Nov 15 16:09:25 okay i've got the following results: the good neo (which is now going back to its owner) can be put on the JTAG cable, and the hardware reset of the debug board will reset the neo. but the openocd stuff (devirginator) doesn't work. Nov 15 16:09:46 this means that the cable rig of the debug board *should* be okay, even if its delicate. Nov 15 16:09:53 has anyone used the openmoko GSM over USB in uboot and the Android simulator together to drive the Neo1973 GSM with Android software? :) Nov 15 16:10:12 so there is something else wrong with the neo that doesn't allow it to boot. i will now charge all the batteries as much as i can... Nov 15 16:10:20 jmichel .bb is no replacement for Makefiles Nov 15 16:10:34 Hadaka: probably google and FIC and HTC have .. ;) Nov 15 16:10:42 ther'es no reason you can't. Nov 15 16:12:32 woglinde: What I did is creating a bb file that does the same in the do_compile() that my Makefile was doing. Nov 15 16:13:40 jmichel why? Nov 15 16:13:50 use your Makefile and you are done Nov 15 16:14:15 uhm, has there big some big news today i've missed? Nov 15 16:14:25 I thought i saw someone talk about something :< Nov 15 16:14:35 do_compile() is mostly used when the upstream Makefile is shitty Nov 15 16:14:39 In the example in the wiki dev crash course a bb file is created to buid the myhelloworld. Want can I do other than that to build with the good LD options for the cross compiler ? Nov 15 16:15:03 jmichel: use autotools Nov 15 16:15:14 jmichel: http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt Nov 15 16:15:19 torpor thats what I want said in the next 3 minutes Nov 15 16:15:44 woglinde: http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt Nov 15 16:16:14 I wanted to use autotools but since the software used only a make file I tought it would be simpler to just create a bb file instead Nov 15 16:16:46 torpor I know your docu Nov 15 16:16:58 and mostly I know autotools Nov 15 16:17:46 torpor: I'll check your doc and come back if any questions Nov 15 16:18:35 woglinde: well i don't know what you want talked about in the next 3 minutes then, but me : i wanna know what happened to my broke neo'! it not the debug board, it seems .. Nov 15 16:18:58 torpor hm Nov 15 16:19:02 I dont know Nov 15 16:19:58 you missed a trick there torpor Nov 15 16:20:22 you gave the wrong neo back ;) Nov 15 16:21:03 hah! Nov 15 16:21:08 no he made sure it was his. ;) Nov 15 16:21:09 woglinde You said to use my Makefile but will it build for the Neo architecture? it is only a Makefile for linux, no autotools is used Nov 15 16:29:21 jmichel use $CC Nov 15 16:29:38 and bitbake will set the variable automagicial Nov 15 16:40:07 automagical :o Nov 15 16:43:09 <_diego_> automagically? Nov 15 16:43:16 <_diego_> i suppose ^^ Nov 15 16:44:14 *g* Nov 15 16:52:25 ok, i didn't look at gsmd for quite a while Nov 15 16:52:29 perhaps someone knows: Nov 15 16:52:38 how do events and messages relate nowadays? Nov 15 16:52:38 i.e. where's the difference between GSMD_MSG_VOICECALL and GSMD_EVT_IN_CALL ? Nov 15 17:18:52 i'm gonna port gpe-sudoku to openmoko Nov 15 18:43:32 yo Nov 15 18:43:44 anyone else snowed in? Nov 15 18:45:27 Only some frost here :) Nov 15 18:49:17 did the menu bug get fixed? the one where openmoko-today only shows a few lame categories of app and there's nothing in them? Nov 15 18:49:22 torpor: where do you live? Nov 15 18:49:29 edistar: vienna austria Nov 15 18:49:46 snowing like mad here. we're not snowed in, but it is definitely chaos outside and warm and cozy inside. Nov 15 18:49:54 torpor: cool! I want to come to Wien :) Nov 15 18:50:03 i hope it stays this way for a few days anyway .. Nov 15 18:50:09 yeah Nov 15 18:50:17 where are you edistar ? Nov 15 18:50:39 Wien is a really nice town. I liked the natural history museum Nov 15 18:50:46 haven't been there yet Nov 15 18:50:47 ;) Nov 15 18:50:49 in west-germany Nov 15 18:50:54 so much to do here and when you live here, its like .. meh .. Nov 15 18:51:00 edistar: right, bochum right? Nov 15 18:51:08 torpor: roughly Nov 15 18:51:18 Heh, I know, it's always like that. You're never doing touristy things in your home town.. Nov 15 18:51:19 you work for nokia don't you? Nov 15 18:54:25 torpor: who works for nokia? Nov 15 18:54:39 sorry i thought you did. Nov 15 18:54:53 i forget if it was you or someone who lived near bochum and worked for nokia .. Nov 15 18:54:56 torpor: no :P I still go to school:( Nov 15 18:55:37 * zash has ~10 cm snow Nov 15 18:55:47 alles klar. edistar but you live close to bochum? Nov 15 18:56:55 torpor: yes, well, about 1 hour away, but noone knows Kleve :P Nov 15 18:57:37 i used to live in recklinghausen, so i know kleve .. ;) Nov 15 18:58:00 torpor: cool! finally :P Nov 15 18:58:31 torpor: but it's a small city :( nothing going on, only bad IT shops Nov 15 19:07:58 edistar: I camped there once Nov 15 19:08:18 abraxa_: wow, was it nice? Nov 15 19:08:20 (not like it matters any ;p) Nov 15 19:08:31 :P Nov 15 19:08:50 Yeah, lol... Nov 15 20:39:18 uhm Nov 15 20:39:25 this is gonna sound a bit stupid Nov 15 20:39:28 but Nov 15 20:39:44 what's the name of the guy that talked to me about python-gdkinput a while ago? (like a day? :/) Nov 15 20:46:40 23:22 < josch> flexd, python-gdkinput seems to be exactly what I need :-/ Nov 15 20:46:46 aha Nov 15 20:46:50 that's what lastlog tells me Nov 15 20:47:11 well blah he's not here :/ Nov 15 20:47:19 I found a better way to do it, but he's not here :/ Nov 15 20:49:37 like what? Nov 15 20:50:05 gobject.io_add_watch() Nov 15 20:50:43 something lik Nov 15 20:50:44 e Nov 15 20:51:17 goject.io_add_watch(mysocket,gobject.IO_IN,dataCallback) Nov 15 20:51:19 :) Nov 15 20:51:51 def dataCallback(source, cb_condition, ...) Nov 15 20:54:03 http://roscidus.com/desktop/node/413 Nov 15 20:54:10 sample usage for it Nov 15 20:56:46 man, whats with all the hate for threads D: Nov 15 20:57:01 where's the hate? :/ Nov 15 20:57:15 .. in general :p Nov 15 20:57:25 people try to avoid them and such Nov 15 20:57:29 why is buildhost.openmoko.org down? Nov 15 21:05:24 ScaredyCat: can I somehow tell make qemu to use your repository for downloading files? buildhost.openmoko.org seems to be down Nov 15 21:10:01 i think i'll add an option in download.sh to download from ScaredyCat's buildhost Nov 15 21:10:34 balrog-kun: can you tell me how? Nov 15 21:11:28 edistar: just edit the URL in openmoko/env and change the wildcards Nov 15 21:11:56 balrog-kun: ok, thx Nov 15 21:12:29 i had to make a presentation today and wanted to show one thing from the qemu-neo1973 working Nov 15 21:12:41 balrog-kun: where is openmoko/env? Nov 15 21:12:47 balrog-kun: it powers up? Nov 15 21:13:00 cjb_ie: wise guy! :P Nov 15 21:13:24 some twenty minutes before the presentation i started trying to download the stuff and the buildhost wasn't responding so i got the images from ScaredyCat's host Nov 15 21:13:32 edistar: in qemu-neo1973 main directory Nov 15 21:13:43 cjb_ie: what powers up? Nov 15 21:13:45 balrog-kun: is it a txt file? Nov 15 21:13:51 edistar: yes, a shell script Nov 15 21:14:05 the last line has the URL iirc Nov 15 21:14:25 balrog-kun: the backlight? Nov 15 21:14:43 balrog-kun: I can't find it in qemu-1973/ Nov 15 21:15:12 cjb_ie: err, whose device? Nov 15 21:15:34 edistar: there's a directory in qemu-neo1973 called openmoko and in it is "env" Nov 15 21:15:56 balrog-kun: there is one dir called openmoko but there is nothing in it Nov 15 21:16:14 qemu-neo rockz Nov 15 21:16:30 edistar: humm Nov 15 21:16:47 edistar: the structure should look like in http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ Nov 15 21:16:55 woglinde: it's really slow, maybe thats because of my athlon64? Nov 15 21:17:11 balrog-kun: what is that? Nov 15 21:17:16 edistar: do you have a real Neo? Nov 15 21:17:22 balrog-kun: no Nov 15 21:17:26 qemu Nov 15 21:17:42 edistar: qemu is sloooow Nov 15 21:17:42 edistar: well, it's not slow compared to a real Neo :) Nov 15 21:17:44 all the time Nov 15 21:17:49 balrog-kun: yes it is Nov 15 21:18:02 neo ui = Fast Nov 15 21:18:04 flexd: I hope its much slower than neo :P Nov 15 21:18:05 flexd: on my computer it's faster the physical Neo Nov 15 21:18:16 qemu ui = retarded slow menus Nov 15 21:18:19 flexd: I wanted to build it natively but that doesn't work.. Nov 15 21:18:25 balrog-kun: what kind of machine do you have? Nov 15 21:18:35 balrog-kun: a quad core 5ghz :P Nov 15 21:18:56 2 GHz dual core Nov 15 21:19:08 balrog-kun: I have that too :( Nov 15 21:19:20 but the number of cores doesn't matter the least Nov 15 21:19:34 i have a 3ghz xeon, still laggy :/ Nov 15 21:21:03 flexd: do you think it may be cause it's built for i386 and runs on an athlon? i had that once.. Nov 15 21:21:16 with ltsp and it's client build image Nov 15 21:21:49 how can I search again in cli? Nov 15 21:23:39 edistar: `find /path -iname somefilename` should work i think Nov 15 21:23:59 xaid|work: -iname is what? Nov 15 21:24:25 thats a command line option :) Nov 15 21:24:34 xaid|work: ok ;) Nov 15 21:24:40 well, it doesn't find env.. Nov 15 21:24:42 case insensitive name matching basically Nov 15 21:24:54 ah, ok , thx Nov 15 21:25:07 `which env` doesn't find env for you? Nov 15 21:25:53 you know.. if twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com) would run efficiently on OM Nov 15 21:26:07 It would like heaven for python programs involving network stuff :o Nov 15 21:26:13 xaid|work: no Nov 15 21:26:14 and pygtk Nov 15 21:26:17 I'll build again Nov 15 21:26:30 * xaid|work is not sure whats happening since he just jumped into the conversation without checking the actual topic being discussed Nov 15 21:26:34 :) Nov 15 21:27:35 xaid|work: isn't that what irc is for? Nov 15 21:28:40 ScaredyCats url was? Nov 15 21:29:39 cjb_ie: yea :) but i was referring to what edistar was asking regarding env. i was switching irssi windows when i saw the question about find so i answered it without checking the rest of the conversation Nov 15 21:29:44 edistar: what directory are you in? Nov 15 21:29:58 balrog-kun: I found my env ;) I changed it to buildhost.automated.it but now it can't find anything anymore Nov 15 21:30:45 balrog-kun: balrog-kun: moko/build/qemu/openmoko Nov 15 21:30:58 balrog-kun: in that folder I edited env Nov 15 21:31:07 edistar: okay Nov 15 21:34:59 balrog-kun: it can't find */tmp/* because it doesn't exist on buildhost.automated.it Nov 15 21:35:41 balrog-kun: what should I do? Nov 15 21:35:43 edistar: you need to give it the full url to the images and also make the wildcards match Nov 15 21:35:56 balrog-kun: please help me ;) Nov 15 21:36:02 obviously don't use tmp if there's no tmp :) Nov 15 21:36:14 balrog-kun: that's what I thought too :P Nov 15 21:39:02 balrog-kun: but I don't know how Nov 15 21:40:04 then download the images manually and just rename the appropriately or use MokoMakefile to build them Nov 15 21:40:30 balrog-kun: one moment, once I built openmoko-devel-image Nov 15 21:40:36 balrog-kun: what exactly is that? Nov 15 21:42:13 edistar: what exactly is openmoko-devel-image? Nov 15 21:42:28 edistar: i guess it's the rootfs? Nov 15 21:42:41 i don't use MokoMakefile, i don't know how it works Nov 15 21:42:49 balrog-kun: well, I built it with make openmoko-devel-image Nov 15 21:43:06 balrog-kun: maybe you could give me a link where I can just do what it says? Nov 15 21:43:08 :P Nov 15 21:43:37 edistar: i don't think such link exists Nov 15 21:44:02 balrog-kun: not nice.. it does exist for buildhost.openmoko.org Nov 15 21:44:12 balrog-kun: but now the link is dead, thats why it doesn't work for me anymore Nov 15 21:45:03 openmoko/flash.sh doesn't work anymore either.. Nov 15 21:45:15 if you decide to do something manually or go a non-standard way, you know you will need to do some thinking for yourself Nov 15 21:45:35 there's no pages that tell you what to do for non-standard ways, otherwise they would be standard Nov 15 21:45:43 balrog-kun: well, what is the standard? Nov 15 21:46:05 balrog-kun: I'm trying to think but it's the first time ever I've tried this kind of stuff so it's a bit difficult.. Nov 15 21:46:15 edistar: to download from buildhost.om.o (which is down at the moment) or build with MokoMakefile Nov 15 21:46:35 balrog-kun: mokomakefile uses buildhost.om.org too Nov 15 21:46:52 edistar: oh Nov 15 21:46:56 does it? Nov 15 21:47:36 balrog-kun: yes :( that's the problem, I tried to change the env the mokomakefile uses, thats my question, how do I change it to scaredycats buildohst Nov 15 21:47:39 buildhost Nov 15 21:48:08 as i mentioned i will add a way to download from buildhost.automated.it in the evening, when i get other stuff done so you shouldn't need buildhost.om.org then Nov 15 21:48:33 balrog-kun: lovely.. Nov 15 21:48:36 whats your time? Nov 15 21:48:59 22:48 but got tons of stuff to do for today :( Nov 15 21:49:23 balrog-kun: ah, ok.. I was wondering what you want to do this evening.. Nov 15 21:49:34 you have an hour left ;) Nov 15 21:50:13 why is om down anyway? Nov 15 22:02:13 does someone have a recent settingsgui .bb recipe they are willing to share? Nov 15 22:05:35 Anyone know what class the laser pointer is? Nov 15 22:07:00 the usual one Nov 15 22:07:19 which is? Nov 15 22:07:34 * mstevens was reading up on the internets and it looks like laser pointers can fall into several Nov 15 22:07:50 mstevens: what do you mean? Nov 15 22:07:51 umm Nov 15 22:08:04 well, dunno. It isn't written anywhere Nov 15 22:08:08 mstevens: the wiki tells you I think Nov 15 22:08:19 mstevens: why does it matter? Nov 15 22:08:36 edistar: cos I accidentally flashed it near my eyes, which set me wondering if I can damage them with it Nov 15 22:12:00 mstevens: ah, sry, can't tell you Nov 15 22:17:00 I get setenv bootcmd ' and then sometime later it breaks off.. Nov 15 22:27:54 morning Nov 15 22:29:04 edistar: if you've built the image locally, then use the -local versions of the flash targets. Nov 15 22:29:41 rwhitby: ok, thx Nov 15 22:30:11 there are -local versions of the target that flashes the real device and also the target that runs qemu Nov 15 22:31:02 ah, ok Nov 15 22:31:59 I have just watched a video where a dutch hacker claims to be able to send an sms to everyone in the surrounding of 25 meters, is that possible? Nov 15 22:34:20 No - without pretending to be a base-station Nov 15 22:34:36 SpeedEvil: is it possible to pretend to be a base-station? Nov 15 22:34:38 SMS are cell-site to phone only Nov 15 22:34:58 SpeedEvil: he was talking about cell-broadcasting or something like that Nov 15 22:35:05 In theory, with a man-in-the-middle attack Nov 15 22:35:33 edistar: depends on the radio in the phone, i would say. i'd say most phone radios can't be configured to reverse the rx and tx channel frequencies Nov 15 22:35:35 SpeedEvil: I'll send you the video link, do you have a minute? I am really curious.. Nov 15 22:35:47 it's a cell broadcast, they are only sent by the cell-tower. Nov 15 22:36:08 SpeedEvil: | Nov 15 22:36:36 SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JpRQu5HQEQ&eurl=http://www.radio538.nl/web/show/id=116527/contentid=30069 Nov 15 22:36:37 However, it's not impossible that if the phone is not logged into a cell, it may show public cell broadcasts if a cell-site lets it roam onto it. Nov 15 22:36:40 I'm not completely sure. Nov 15 22:38:29 gneh! Nov 15 22:38:38 who wrote feedreader? Nov 15 22:39:41 I suspect it's edi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluejacking Nov 15 22:39:48 SpeedEvil: so in principle what they received was a cell broadcast, not an sms? Nov 15 22:41:08 no - I suspect it's bluetooth, not a cell broadcast Nov 15 22:41:19 SpeedEvil: would it look like a normal sms? Nov 15 22:41:20 As a phone can't send it Nov 15 22:41:24 I don't know Nov 15 22:41:38 it'sn't it just a vcaed? Nov 15 22:41:43 vcard Nov 15 22:41:48 boradcast Nov 15 22:42:03 SpeedEvil: because it really seemed very dodgy that he just pressed send and everyone in the surrounding got an sms, at least their sms sounds went off Nov 15 22:43:29 A phone can't send cell broadcasts, or pretend to be a tower Nov 15 22:44:11 SpeedEvil: very sure? he says so on youtube.. Nov 15 22:44:14 it's going to be bluetooth - look at http://www.bluejackq.com/what-is-bluejacking.shtml Nov 15 22:44:43 If I trusted everything everyone said on youtube... Nov 15 22:44:47 It could theoretically be a cell broadcast however it would be a really complex modification to the phone Nov 15 22:45:02 it looks like the original samsung OS is still on there.. Nov 15 22:45:23 but it really looks like he is sending an sms, it looks like the sms editor Nov 15 22:45:33 could be a custom java app Nov 15 22:45:39 hell could be photoshopped Nov 15 22:46:00 could be cut in time, .. etc Nov 15 22:46:05 anrp: but then why would all these phone go off.. Nov 15 22:46:16 i'm just puzzled how he does that.. Nov 15 22:46:20 bt pairing request Nov 15 22:46:23 pretty simple imo Nov 15 22:46:32 Or BT contact sharing Nov 15 22:46:47 yeah, something that would be allowed unauthenticated Nov 15 22:47:04 why'd go off all at the same time, is that possible? Nov 15 22:47:39 well its probably not exactly the same time .. but within a couple seconds you could probably scan the BT network around you and send to all devices found Nov 15 22:48:01 anrp: yes, it's slightly offset.. Nov 15 22:48:12 or you could continuously scan and then rapidfire messages when its ready Nov 15 22:48:28 sry for badgering you, but this seems quite impossible to me, that someone can just send the surrounding sms Nov 15 22:48:32 morning Nov 15 22:48:45 anrp: I suppose java vms allow access to bt? Nov 15 22:48:48 its probably ... well, almost certainly, not an SMS over GSM Nov 15 22:48:53 i'm sure J2ME has some facility for it Nov 15 22:49:40 can somebody point me to resource about touchscren detail and proto it works by? Nov 15 22:50:12 wikipedia is not enough Nov 15 22:50:14 I mean, he claims to have also hacked the railway, being able to change the times and destinations etc... but I think thats just a fake.. Nov 15 22:50:27 It is theoretically possible to do it via a phone. I'd guess that it would take a skilled engineer - skilled in VHDL, circuit design, GSM protocol spec maybe 500 hours, and $several K in hardware costs Nov 15 22:50:38 well he's either smart and has a death wish (getting caught) Nov 15 22:50:40 or he's lying Nov 15 22:50:43 To get it into a box that'd go into a pocket Nov 15 22:50:46 * anrp goes with simpler option Nov 15 22:51:12 yeah, cause otherwise he wouldn't put it on youtube.. Nov 15 22:52:21 I think I will try out bluejacking with my phone now.. Nov 15 22:52:25 and the nokia Nov 15 22:52:28 770 Nov 15 22:52:35 if he was just smart, he'd sell what he found to darker elements Nov 15 22:52:54 not go attention-whoring Nov 15 22:53:03 of course... i shouldn't really word it that strongly Nov 15 22:53:08 since i can't say for sure :/ Nov 15 22:53:14 yes Nov 15 22:54:32 it just makes me curious, if he claims to be able to change the railway signs and also highway signs(via a gui!) and broadcast sms via cell broadcast Nov 15 22:54:39 it just seems to much Nov 15 22:56:41 heh, I mean, would be mad to announce on youtube.. he'd be killed in NL ;) Nov 15 22:57:24 edistar: http://bladers-world.com/hosted/bladersoftware/appz/bluejackx/BlueJackX_Sourcecode.zip Nov 15 22:59:24 ScaredyCat: what do I do with a .pkg file? Nov 15 23:00:32 pkg file? from where? Nov 15 23:00:37 in the zip.. Nov 15 23:01:12 it's the sys file you're interested in Nov 15 23:01:31 if not a symbian phone then you'll need to look at the source code Nov 15 23:01:44 and modify it to suit your platform Nov 15 23:01:50 I only have a java vm :( Nov 15 23:02:19 but I suppose I could quickly script a bluejack tool for maemo.. Nov 15 23:02:28 ok, but you can read the source to understand what's going on, and try to replicate dthat in javs Nov 15 23:02:29 python can use bluetooth, right? Nov 15 23:02:31 java Nov 15 23:02:33 yes Nov 15 23:02:38 python can Nov 15 23:02:52 python-bluez iirc for linux Nov 15 23:03:01 thx Nov 15 23:04:01 http://bluejack.ru/soft/btexplorer Nov 15 23:04:04 is java Nov 15 23:04:52 and is it in english too? my russian is minimal ;) Nov 15 23:05:54 dunno, just trying to be helpul Nov 15 23:05:57 helpful Nov 15 23:06:08 ScaredyCat: thanks! Nov 15 23:06:46 but bluejacking doesn't work that well, my phone tells me: vcard received, do you want to see? so I say yes and it tells me name: you have been hacked :P Nov 15 23:07:29 that's how it works Nov 15 23:08:09 http://www.bluejackq.com/what-is-bluejacking.shtml Nov 15 23:08:30 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/15/cluster_challenge_alberta_wins/ Nov 15 23:08:39 that's all he's done, bluejack a scanned list of devices Nov 15 23:10:01 I love clusters :) luckily at school we have 18 pcs which I am allowed to cluster sometimes :) Nov 15 23:10:39 each 2ghz with 512mb ram, and because they have pxe I can mount a modified debian and have them calculate a whole night.. Nov 15 23:11:30 nice Nov 15 23:12:24 SpeedEvil: still there? Nov 15 23:13:42 grr.. still bugs me how he did it.. Nov 15 23:15:28 not happy with the bluejack solution, that would just be much to obvious, noone would fall for that Nov 15 23:16:36 * mwester things edistar really, really wishes to believe... but is struggling with his cynical side. Nov 15 23:16:56 It's a scam. Until proven otherwise. Nov 15 23:17:10 mwester: well, then you can never prove anything.. Nov 15 23:17:38 Youtube is a video version of the graffiti on the mens room wall :) Nov 15 23:17:43 xD Nov 15 23:20:02 who is that nut job on the mailing list? Nov 15 23:21:04 ScaredyCat: which mailing list? Nov 15 23:21:21 * mwester is a nut job, but hasn't sent emails lately... Nov 15 23:22:26 ScaredyCat which one? *ducks* Nov 15 23:22:50 ScaredyCat: what exactly do you mean Nov 15 23:23:44 "Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement" Nov 15 23:23:54 that one Nov 15 23:24:33 ha Nov 15 23:24:39 thats funny Nov 15 23:25:00 to each his/her own Nov 15 23:25:01 yes.. Nov 15 23:25:05 hmmm... seems reasonable. Laptops lack working GSM, don't have GPS, and many don't have good power-management support with Linux. ;-) Seems to match pretty well to me! Nov 15 23:25:05 ScaredyCat: I thought you were refering to that one Italian guy sending out mails to pretty much all OM lists to study abroad Nov 15 23:25:06 * mwester ducks Nov 15 23:25:14 lol Nov 15 23:25:21 just buy an eee pc - ehich is cheaper, has a keyboard, and a better screen Nov 15 23:25:40 s/better/bigger/ Nov 15 23:25:40 ScaredyCat meant: just buy an eee pc - ehich is cheaper, has a keyboard, and a bigger screen Nov 15 23:27:04 eee pc? Nov 15 23:27:17 asus Nov 15 23:27:17 asus eee pc Nov 15 23:27:21 small, cheap laptop Nov 15 23:27:28 Aha Nov 15 23:28:14 hmm.. fresnel lens to pull the display to 8" ... this is so.. brazil Nov 15 23:28:43 is that Elrond? Nov 15 23:28:53 Is the EEE out yet? Nov 15 23:28:58 yes Nov 15 23:29:22 ja! Nov 15 23:29:44 expansys, ebay ... that sort of place Nov 15 23:29:49 I wonder if they're sold cheaply anywhere in norway Nov 15 23:30:00 they're cheap to start with! Nov 15 23:40:10 ScaredyCat i will try to get a eeepc also.. but i wantr a black one with 1g ram and 8g flash.. need to find out if these are avail in europe soon or if i need to buy it in taipeh on my next visit Nov 15 23:47:21 ola nibbler Nov 15 23:48:24 * cjb_ie wonders if nibbler poops dark matter Nov 15 23:50:45 are there any screenshots of the official openmoko gui anywhere? Nov 15 23:51:12 I can only find screenies of qtopia Nov 15 23:52:30 sandsmark: yes, in many places on the wiki Nov 15 23:52:51 balrog-kun: you wouldn't care to help me out with a link? Nov 15 23:53:36 * sandsmark is getting slightly retarded Nov 15 23:53:43 also on many people's flickr streams Nov 15 23:53:51 ok Nov 15 23:53:55 some of them may be outdated now because things change quickly Nov 15 23:54:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC Nov 15 23:54:30 this is an example of the outdated ones :) Nov 15 23:54:49 ;) Nov 15 23:54:54 screen_shots? Nov 15 23:55:05 ...which told me how to make them Nov 16 00:00:29 sandsmark: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/mockups/ and http://scap.linuxtogo.org Nov 16 00:01:48 (do take note however, that the mockups might partially be out of date) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 16 02:59:58 2007