**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 16 02:59:58 2007
Nov 16 03:03:18 <Guest> hello?
Nov 16 03:03:34 <anrp> the guest appears
Nov 16 03:05:52 <Guest> ok can someone tell me where to get help with using hd moores code for the iphone?
Nov 16 03:06:46 <Guest> not all at one time guys
Nov 16 03:07:16 <cjb_ie> why not ask about android while you're at it ;-)
Nov 16 03:08:08 <SpeedEvil> Android on Iphone!
Nov 16 03:08:14 <anrp> this is .. probably the wrong place
Nov 16 05:38:29 <atul> ckn_2k2, hi
Nov 16 05:38:40 <ckn_2k2> hello
Nov 16 07:08:26 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 16 07:30:05 <torpor> hello
Nov 16 07:31:14 <XorA> hey torpor 
Nov 16 07:37:53 <atul> ChanServ, Why I dont have channel operator access
Nov 16 07:49:34 <ScaredyCat> did you run that script CM
Nov 16 07:59:28 <ckn_2k2> can i have a GSM stack ported to openmoko so that it can serve as a proper phone as like android
Nov 16 08:01:13 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 16 08:17:52 <ljp> ckn_2k2: qtopia runs on the neo
Nov 16 08:18:40 <_diego__> a proper gsm stack is already in the GSM firmware modem ^^
Nov 16 08:19:31 <_diego__> asd
Nov 16 08:20:25 <ckn_2k2> ljp:do you have any docs for this qtopia on neo
Nov 16 08:23:16 <ljp> theres tons of docs for qtopia
Nov 16 08:32:02 <torpor> uh oh, what is this about?
Nov 16 08:32:18 <torpor> database /home/j/hak/openmoko/OE.mth is laid out according to an old schema
Nov 16 08:32:25 <torpor> try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade
Nov 16 08:32:44 <XorA> torpor: you changed your mtn version
Nov 16 08:32:54 <torpor> doh!
Nov 16 08:33:04 <torpor> i did an ubuntu upgrade, yes.
Nov 16 08:33:11 <torpor> so should i just do the db migrate?
Nov 16 08:33:25 <XorA> torpor: no, download a new OE snapshot, thats like 20 mins instead of 6 hours
Nov 16 08:33:37 <XorA> www.openembedded.org/snapshots/
Nov 16 08:33:44 <XorA> get the one for your mtn version
Nov 16 08:33:57 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 08:33:58 <torpor> you rock
Nov 16 08:39:40 <torpor> so do i just put it in place of the OE.mtn file, or the OE.mtn.bz2 file thats in my openmoko/ dir?
Nov 16 08:39:52 <torpor> sorry its just that i'm a complete moron when it comes to monotone, and i'd like to stay that way
Nov 16 08:43:55 <CM> hehe
Nov 16 08:44:04 <CM> Just replace it, worked for me :)
Nov 16 08:44:28 <CM> The .bz2 can be removed after you've unpacked it
Nov 16 08:44:30 <torpor> can i get rid of the old .bz2 file then too?
Nov 16 08:44:35 <CM> ;)
Nov 16 08:44:42 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 08:44:43 <torpor> ;)
Nov 16 08:45:07 <torpor> looks like its moving along .. thanks for the help ..
Nov 16 08:45:32 <torpor> solution to my crashed neo problem: get another one.
Nov 16 08:45:38 <torpor> the debug board situation blows ass, i might add.
Nov 16 08:55:35 <roh> morning torpor
Nov 16 08:55:58 <torpor> hiya roh
Nov 16 08:56:18 <roh> what did happen to your debugboard?
Nov 16 08:56:45 <torpor> soon as i opened it up the clip fell off.
Nov 16 08:56:52 <torpor> so there is no reliable way to make sure the cable is secure
Nov 16 08:57:02 <torpor> and then the same thing happened to my neo.
Nov 16 08:57:05 <torpor> lousy clips.
Nov 16 08:57:17 <torpor> and i am *not* clumsy with such things, these clips just suck ass.
Nov 16 08:57:47 <torpor> but anyway, i tested the debug board on a known-good neo yesterday, and it seems that the debug board and cable problem is maybe not the issue, because with the working neo, the debug board can reset the neo when i press the reset button
Nov 16 08:58:04 <roh> i agree that i too do not like the connectors, but i somehow did not manage to break one yet
Nov 16 08:58:04 <torpor> however, the JTAG software does not work with either a working neo or a non-working neo, so i can't be sure whats going on
Nov 16 08:58:19 <torpor> and to be honest i can't spend time hacking on this - it either works reliably or it doesn't.
Nov 16 08:58:46 <torpor> the fact is, as we have seen from others too, the debug board is almost useless.  i know 3 other guys with bricked neo's and debug boards not doing the job of de-bricking them.
Nov 16 08:59:14 <roh> i had one fpc where i needed to scratch a bit at both corners since it was some micrometers woo wide to fit into the connector
Nov 16 08:59:28 <torpor> fpc = cable?
Nov 16 08:59:34 <roh> japp
Nov 16 09:05:37 <roh> torpor just to make sure.. you have seen the  pictures at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board ?
Nov 16 09:07:30 <roh> the fpc need to be between the 'hills' at the corners of the connectors
Nov 16 09:07:53 <roh> and it does not slide in completely but only as on the pictures
Nov 16 09:08:04 <torpor> yes
Nov 16 09:08:13 <torpor> i have studied that page intensely for a week. ;)
Nov 16 09:12:18 <roh> hm.. where are you located?
Nov 16 09:13:05 <mmontour> torpor: For what it's worth, my debug board works OK (though I do have to unplug/replug its USB sometimes to get openocd to see it)
Nov 16 09:13:08 <torpor> roh: vienna, austria
Nov 16 09:13:31 <torpor> mmontour: that is good to know - i would like to know your setup, what linux distro you are on, what version of openocd you are using, etc.
Nov 16 09:13:39 <roh> ah. well. i am in berlin
Nov 16 09:13:42 <torpor> maybe there is a better chance with windows?
Nov 16 09:13:58 <torpor> roh: i'd consider a day trip to berlin to fix it! ;)
Nov 16 09:14:05 <roh> nope.. we do not have win32 flashing support
Nov 16 09:14:09 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 09:14:16 <roh> yet
Nov 16 09:14:27 <torpor> so i guess i need to do a bit of a survey to find out what version of openocd people are using, what libfttdi, what distro, etc.
Nov 16 09:14:40 <torpor> maybe you guys who have working debug boards could tell me?
Nov 16 09:14:45 <mmontour> distro was OpenSUSE 10.3, openocd was as built by MokoMakefile
Nov 16 09:14:51 <torpor> i see.
Nov 16 09:15:06 <torpor> config file?
Nov 16 09:15:22 <roh> torpor i built all openocd i ever used directly from the openmoko-oe env
Nov 16 09:15:34 <torpor> okay that is one thing i haven't really fully tried out yet.
Nov 16 09:15:50 <torpor> i'm using the mokomakefile so i will try to use the one thats being built for me instead of the ones i've downloaded, like in the devirginator package, etc.
Nov 16 09:16:54 <mmontour> I got my config file from the Neo1973_OpenOCD wiki page
Nov 16 09:17:22 <torpor> no tweaks?
Nov 16 09:18:24 <roh> i just copied my openocd and dfu-util binaries to people.openmoko.org/roh/
Nov 16 09:18:28 <roh> static binaries
Nov 16 09:19:21 <torpor> ok roh, thanks, i'll have a go at it.
Nov 16 09:19:34 <roh> put openocd-fic_debug_v2.cfg there too now
Nov 16 09:19:38 <torpor> great
Nov 16 09:20:19 <torpor> downloading now, will have a go at using them in a little while .. 
Nov 16 09:20:51 <roh> you know about the module you need to load for the debugboard?
Nov 16 09:21:00 <roh> debugboard_serial_modules.sh does that
Nov 16 09:21:01 <torpor> fttdi, right?
Nov 16 09:21:27 <mmontour> modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 (from the wiki)
Nov 16 09:22:00 <roh> ack
Nov 16 09:22:07 <torpor> yeah i'm doing that
Nov 16 09:22:42 <torpor> gonna take a small break, come back in 20 minutes and have another go at getting this working .. stay tuned for progress reports if you're interested.
Nov 16 09:24:33 <tuukkah> i just come back from the us and the lack of 850 MHz support is funny - explains how i had bad reception every now and then ;-)
Nov 16 09:25:22 <Ghiottone|work> gday
Nov 16 09:25:34 <tuukkah> hi Ghiottone|work!
Nov 16 09:28:11 <tuukkah> Ghiottone|work, what's new?
Nov 16 09:38:50 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah: quite some things
Nov 16 09:38:59 <torpor> such as?
Nov 16 09:39:09 <torpor> tell us all about it Ghiottone|work !
Nov 16 09:39:20 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah: I did some work on navit (navit.sf.net) lately and the result is the navit_cvs recipe in bb :)
Nov 16 09:39:22 <tuukkah> good to hear :-)
Nov 16 09:39:37 <torpor> hey so we can run navit now!?
Nov 16 09:39:44 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah and have success stories for it. so car navigator is on the way
Nov 16 09:39:46 <torpor> how do we have to set up the gpsd to run navit?
Nov 16 09:39:51 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah yep
Nov 16 09:40:00 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah you still need gllin
Nov 16 09:40:14 <torpor> but do we have to do the chroot thing or is it enough to use the LD_ hack?
Nov 16 09:40:19 <torpor> LD_CONFIG_PATH i mean..
Nov 16 09:40:31 <torpor> (stupid tab-completion addiction, why doesn't it workin IRC .. gr... )
Nov 16 09:40:47 <jeddy3> torpor, :D
Nov 16 09:40:54 <tuukkah> i also read the news that we're getting legal gllin for gta01
Nov 16 09:41:00 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah the LD hack is ok. also there is no need for gpsd. navit can directly read the pipe that gllin creates
Nov 16 09:41:20 <torpor> ok cool
Nov 16 09:41:23 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah where is it? I heard the same thing some weeks ago
Nov 16 09:41:31 <torpor> i look forward to checking out navit as soon as i can .. i'm a big fan of gps .. 
Nov 16 09:41:43 <tuukkah> Ghiottone|work, you're mixing tuukkah and torpor here ;-)
Nov 16 09:41:54 <torpor> stupid tab completion! 
Nov 16 09:41:58 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah oops!
Nov 16 09:42:12 <Ghiottone|work> torpor read what I said to tuukkah :)
Nov 16 09:42:38 <Ghiottone|work> should I say t*: to catch both? ;)
Nov 16 09:42:39 <tuukkah> Ghiottone|work, this is what i read: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#gllin_GPS_driver_for_GTA01
Nov 16 09:42:51 <torpor> i'm reading everything you write .. 
Nov 16 09:43:27 <mmontour> gllin release has been "any day now" for months. Don't hold your breath.
Nov 16 09:43:29 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah yep. I read it then
Nov 16 09:44:08 <Ghiottone|work> another news is that I have discovered the existence of elf statifier
Nov 16 09:44:11 <tuukkah> well there's a november 13 update
Nov 16 09:44:36 <Ghiottone|work> it is a program that's able to create a statically linked program from a dynamically linked one and the libraries it needs
Nov 16 09:44:46 <tuukkah> wow
Nov 16 09:45:06 <Ghiottone|work> I thought that using it with gllin could lead to a single binary instead of the whole chroot/libraries set
Nov 16 09:45:10 <torpor> that is a great thing indeed. ;)
Nov 16 09:45:27 <Ghiottone|work> I had contacted the elf statifier developer and he is willing to port it to the Neo
Nov 16 09:46:00 <Ghiottone|work> I'd like to have a word from some official OM dev if this is a good thing or not and I'll start working with him on the port
Nov 16 09:46:15 <Ghiottone|work> we need to do it togheter as he needs ssh access to the Neo
Nov 16 09:46:35 <starox> hey, am I the only one who canno't reach buildhost.openmoko.org ?
Nov 16 09:47:14 <starox> Resolving buildhost.openmoko.org... failed: Temporary failure in name resolution.
Nov 16 09:47:53 <Ghiottone|work> about the statifier topic, if there is someone with knowledge of the Neo's processor assembler, their help would be very useful in porting statifier to the platform
Nov 16 09:48:05 <borg_> i started a fresh rebuild over night
Nov 16 09:48:09 <borg_> at the end it says
Nov 16 09:48:13 <borg_> Successfully terminated.
Nov 16 09:48:14 <borg_> Collected errors:
Nov 16 09:48:14 <borg_> ERROR: The following packages conflict with openmoko-session2: matchbox-common
Nov 16 09:48:41 <borg_> which one is the package i should choose?
Nov 16 09:49:23 <XorA> borg_: you should updarte
Nov 16 09:49:49 <borg_> so is this fixed?
Nov 16 09:49:49 <borg_> ok
Nov 16 09:49:50 <borg_> :)
Nov 16 09:50:05 <borg_> never mind
Nov 16 09:50:44 <Ghiottone|work> the last of my news is that yesterday there was the TeleMobilityForum here in Italy. I unfortunately could not partecipate but Tyrael was there and gave an OpenMoko speech
Nov 16 09:51:12 <Ghiottone|work> I still have to know how it was. He was supposed to show navit in action
Nov 16 09:51:50 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah now it's your turn for giving news! :)
Nov 16 09:52:53 <tuukkah> not much news except i tested roaming in the us and bought a 4 gb card for music playing
Nov 16 09:54:04 <tuukkah> it was a surprise to me that gprs roaming works via your home provider with your home configuration
Nov 16 09:54:07 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah oh so 4gb cards work!
Nov 16 09:54:33 <tuukkah> Ghiottone|work, have there been reports that they wouldn't work?
Nov 16 09:54:42 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah ah so it is not depending on the phone sw
Nov 16 09:55:23 <Ghiottone|work> tuukkah there were not any reports that they would work. but there were some bugs that could be either sw or hw related
Nov 16 09:55:28 * XorA realises he has 5 mobiles on his desk
Nov 16 09:56:13 <Ghiottone|work> XorA: what if they all start ringing at the same time?
Nov 16 09:56:26 <XorA> Ghiottone|work: luckilly 2 are neos so no chance they ring
Nov 16 09:56:47 <tuukkah> no chance?
Nov 16 09:58:10 <XorA> one is crashed, one has Angstrom, neither have working gsmd :-)
Nov 16 10:01:33 <CM> Ghiottone|work: Nice work on navit, I have to to try it soon :)
Nov 16 10:02:07 <CM> Ghiottone|work: Good that the statifier guy replied too :)
Nov 16 10:02:12 <tuukkah> CM, doesn't speak swedish yet ;-)
Nov 16 10:02:26 <CM> tuukkah: Hehe
Nov 16 10:09:50 <torpor> Ghiottone|work: does navit use public maps, or is there some way to get a map for vienna? 
Nov 16 10:11:25 <mbuf> SRC_URI cannot be a source directory? it always have to be a compressed file or individual files?
Nov 16 10:12:40 <CM> mbuf: Looks like it, if you check other bb files
Nov 16 10:15:11 <mbuf> CM, so if i have sources generated by autotools, and developer makes changes often from IDE, then it will have to make a .tar.gz everytime to build an .ipk
Nov 16 10:16:04 <torpor> mbuf: just put the individual source files in your SRC_URI .. you can have as many as you like.
Nov 16 10:16:30 <torpor> see for example the SRC_URI in this : http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt
Nov 16 10:16:49 <torpor> all files in that list will be copied to the build source dir for inclusion in the recipe .. 
Nov 16 10:17:58 <mbuf> torpor, don't you think it will be better to tar it in /tmp in case there are 100 source files?
Nov 16 10:19:16 <borg_> hm
Nov 16 10:19:24 <borg_> i get the same problem as above after updating
Nov 16 10:21:30 <torpor> hmm.
Nov 16 10:21:43 <torpor> mbuf: its up to you .. 
Nov 16 10:22:06 <torpor> okay -- debug board guys -- i'm noticing that as soon as i fire up openocd, this happens:
Nov 16 10:22:09 <torpor> Nov 16 12:21:18 boko-ubu kernel: [44514.426414] ftdi_sio ttyUSB0: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now disconnected from ttyUSB0
Nov 16 10:22:12 <torpor> Nov 16 12:21:18 boko-ubu kernel: [44514.426429] ftdi_sio 1-2:1.0: device disconnected
Nov 16 10:22:15 <torpor> anyone know why?
Nov 16 10:24:37 <XorA> torpor: USB0 is the openocd device, USB1 is the serial console
Nov 16 10:24:44 <XorA> torpor: its expected behavious
Nov 16 10:27:31 <roh> torpor the ftdi has 2 usarts of which one gets switched to jtag mode and directly driven from userspace. thus the uart driver in kernelspace gives the one up. the other one stays your serial
Nov 16 10:28:42 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 10:29:00 <torpor> so that means that this is a normal message and is expected behaviour.  but still, jtag communication failure...
Nov 16 10:42:19 <Elrond> roh - Your the first in a long time to know brazil. ;-)
Nov 16 10:42:37 <Elrond> ScaredyCat - What's up with me?
Nov 16 11:04:48 <Psi> anyone else find that if their neo has been in their pocket for a while the touchscreen tends to stick to the LCD and create a weird looking pattern (i assume its the heat+moisture in the air)
Nov 16 11:05:02 <Psi> clears up once its been out of ya pocket for a while
Nov 16 11:07:29 <torpor> okay i've got a working neo hooked up to the debug board - and openocd just sits there.  this means that its talking to the JTAG connectors, right? i can now telnet to it or something?
Nov 16 11:08:02 <torpor> okay so now i've got jtag on a *working* neo going ..
Nov 16 11:08:45 <torpor> this looks good:
Nov 16 11:08:45 <torpor> > scan_chain
Nov 16 11:08:46 <torpor> 0: idcode: 0x0032409d ir length 4, ir capture 0x1, ir mask 0xf, current instruction 0xc
Nov 16 11:09:06 <torpor> so: the debug board can be used to do JTAG - *however* it seems that there is something even more wrong with my neo .. 
Nov 16 11:09:15 <torpor> the busted neo does not start, or something.
Nov 16 11:09:29 <torpor> anyone know any tricks to get a neo booted - maybe theres some short i can do across pins or something?
Nov 16 11:09:42 <torpor> because it seems like my neo is just plain out to lunch. ;*(
Nov 16 11:11:23 <borg_> aaahh...
Nov 16 11:11:31 <borg_> with matchbox-common it says
Nov 16 11:11:35 <borg_> ERROR: The following packages conflict with openmoko-session2: matchbox-common
Nov 16 11:11:40 <borg_> and without it says
Nov 16 11:11:45 <borg_> ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: matchbox-common
Nov 16 11:12:02 <XorA> torpor: now jtag is working did you follow through the wiki how to re-install u-boot
Nov 16 11:12:34 <torpor> XorA: its not working on my borked neo, its working on a working neo.
Nov 16 11:12:45 <torpor> so all this does is confirm that the debug board can be made to work.
Nov 16 11:12:54 <torpor> and it means that the borked neo is just not alive when plugged in.
Nov 16 11:13:07 <XorA> torpor: :-(
Nov 16 11:13:23 <Psi> checked the obvious i assume, charged bat etc...?
Nov 16 11:15:00 <torpor> yes i'm using the same battery that works in the working neo, with the borked one.
Nov 16 11:15:54 <Psi> :(
Nov 16 11:17:49 <Psi> tried booting it without the sim and sd in?
Nov 16 11:18:25 <torpor> yes
Nov 16 11:18:26 <roh> did you power it on and plug the 2nd usb chord for power?
Nov 16 11:18:31 <torpor> yes
Nov 16 11:18:38 <torpor> there is no way to be sure it is powered on however
Nov 16 11:18:45 <roh> ack
Nov 16 11:19:04 <roh> well does pressing reset do anything ?
Nov 16 11:19:29 <Psi> if you put the earphones on and plug them in you get a click if the neo has power atleast
Nov 16 11:19:32 <torpor> on the working neo, when i press reset on the debug board, the neo reboots.  this demonstrates that the debug board is communicating over the dodgy cable connection to the neo
Nov 16 11:19:42 <torpor> and i just had jtag working on the *working* neo - was able to halt reset, etc.
Nov 16 11:19:54 <torpor> but on the non-working neo, nothing ever happens.
Nov 16 11:21:03 <torpor> nothing, no click
Nov 16 11:21:12 <torpor> so it would appear to me to be a catastrophic hardware failure.
Nov 16 11:21:57 <Psi> have a look at the USB plug on the neo
Nov 16 11:22:02 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 11:22:10 <Psi> check none of the pins look damaged
Nov 16 11:22:16 <torpor> none of the pins look damaged
Nov 16 11:22:18 <roh> Psi ?
Nov 16 11:22:29 <Psi> roh?
Nov 16 11:22:45 <roh> Psi would be the first usb plug problem i hear of
Nov 16 11:23:00 <Psi> yeah, im just thinking of ideas he can try/check
Nov 16 11:23:28 <torpor> roh: are you at openmoko?
Nov 16 11:23:35 <Psi> if theres no click when ya have the usb pluged in and put the earphones in then i dont think its even got power
Nov 16 11:23:51 <roh> torpor i am employee, yes
Nov 16 11:24:02 <torpor> roh: okay
Nov 16 11:24:28 <torpor> do you happen to know if there is some way to hard-reset the CPU, such as shorting a couple pins? 
Nov 16 11:24:47 <torpor> because maybe there just simply isnt' any juice being fed the CPU, because the powermanagement chip is hung or somehting?
Nov 16 11:24:50 <roh> there is no harder reset than reset on the jtag
Nov 16 11:25:08 <torpor> okay wait: there is a click when i plug and unplug headphones
Nov 16 11:25:13 <torpor> Psi: good advice!
Nov 16 11:25:26 <Psi> at least you now know there is power there :)
Nov 16 11:25:41 <torpor> so the problem is that JTAG is just simply not workign on this neo then .. 
Nov 16 11:27:03 <Psi> check the jtag pins for signs of damage
Nov 16 11:27:22 <torpor> nothing obvious
Nov 16 11:27:33 <torpor> but the connector on both the debug board and the neo has lost its clip.
Nov 16 11:28:26 <Psi> the fact that it all works on another neo pretty much eliminates the debug board and cable as the problem
Nov 16 11:28:36 <torpor> yup
Nov 16 11:29:03 <roh> wel.. not the socket on the neo. i cannot tell if it works at all without the clip since i never lost one
Nov 16 11:29:31 <Psi> yeah, anything on the neo side could be at fault
Nov 16 11:29:32 <torpor> the clips broke the moment we touched them.
Nov 16 11:31:28 <torpor> are the jtag pins exposed elsewhere on the board, say as pads as well?
Nov 16 11:31:33 <torpor> so maybe i could rig up a custom cable?
Nov 16 11:32:13 <roh> they are.
Nov 16 11:32:13 <horvatj73> might be a good idea!
Nov 16 11:32:19 <roh> the testpads
Nov 16 11:32:54 <torpor> can you describe them to me, or tell me what the main ones are?
Nov 16 11:33:08 <yoyo> hello
Nov 16 11:33:14 <roh> you have a green pcb gta01bv4, right?
Nov 16 11:33:26 <rwhitby> wow, LaF0rge is stepping down from the lead system architect position.
Nov 16 11:33:30 <torpor> roh: yes.  gta01b_a4
Nov 16 11:33:42 <XorA> wow news spreads like wildfire
Nov 16 11:33:47 <torpor> and the debug board is "openmoko neo1973 dbug board" - with the j1 and j10 headers removed.
Nov 16 11:33:52 <torpor> and j2/j3 etc.
Nov 16 11:33:57 <rwhitby> XorA: especially when you blog it
Nov 16 11:34:04 <rwhitby> http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16#20071116-leaving_openmoko
Nov 16 11:34:33 <torpor> does this mean there's a position open?!  :)
Nov 16 11:34:34 <Psi> id use a DMM to check/find a problem between the jtag testpad pins and the jtag connector pins before bothering to make up a custom cable
Nov 16 11:34:35 <torpor> coz i'll fill it.
Nov 16 11:34:37 <roh> torpor between the debugconnector and the edge of the pcb, when you rotate it upwards you should have 8 pads
Nov 16 11:35:11 <rwhitby> mwester: are you going to step up?
Nov 16 11:35:13 <roh> torpor the labeling is below the connector, the pads 
Nov 16 11:35:15 <torpor> roh: yes i see them.. 
Nov 16 11:35:18 <roh> 'above'
Nov 16 11:35:21 <torpor> yup
Nov 16 11:35:26 <torpor> those are the jtag pins?
Nov 16 11:35:33 <roh> so there is rxd, txd for serial
Nov 16 11:35:39 <torpor> so i could go from the j1 header to those pads . .
Nov 16 11:36:13 <roh> then jtag 6 pins: TRST TDO TCK TMS RESET TDI
Nov 16 11:36:21 <torpor> ok
Nov 16 11:36:32 <torpor> so it could be as simple as doing this: J1 on the debug board, to those pads, right?
Nov 16 11:36:41 <flexd> uhm anyone of you use ubuntu?
Nov 16 11:36:42 <rwhitby> LaF0rge: sorry to see your decision.  hope you can have a more enjoyable time contributing as a volunteer.
Nov 16 11:36:48 <roh> keep the wires short
Nov 16 11:37:01 <LaF0rge> rwhitby: thanks, we'll see.
Nov 16 11:37:07 <torpor> okay i'm going to try to do this today in the afternoon .. 
Nov 16 11:37:14 <roh> torpor yes. the 2x10pin one
Nov 16 11:37:25 <XorA> ho LaF0rge no more beering in Berlin then :-(
Nov 16 11:37:29 <torpor> for confirmation: rxd, txd, TRST, TD0 TCK TMS RESET TDI
Nov 16 11:37:39 <LaF0rge> xora: why not? I'm spending much more in berlin now :)
Nov 16 11:37:47 <rwhitby> XorA: you don't drink with mere mortal volunteers?
Nov 16 11:37:48 <LaF0rge> xora: and the NDA's are all still valid.
Nov 16 11:38:14 <LaF0rge> xora: much more time in berlin, that is
Nov 16 11:38:21 <XorA> LaF0rge: ah thats ok then, I liked Berlin and want to come back
Nov 16 11:38:22 <LaF0rge> xora: did you finally get your machine now?
Nov 16 11:38:33 <XorA> LaF0rge: yes, arrived on weds in the biggest box on earth
Nov 16 11:38:41 <torpor> roh: thankyou for the info, i will rig up a cable today.
Nov 16 11:38:42 <XorA> LaF0rge: thanks for that
Nov 16 11:38:57 <LaF0rge> xora: sorry for the delays, I was too distracted to push the vendor sooner
Nov 16 11:39:04 <torpor> the only question left is what are the pinouts for J1, but i think thats on the wiki isn't it .. 
Nov 16 11:39:08 <torpor> XorA: what box?!
Nov 16 11:40:32 <LaF0rge> torpor: packaging of a computer I ordered for XorA
Nov 16 11:40:43 <LaF0rge> torpor: for faster OE builds :)
Nov 16 11:41:00 <torpor> damn thought you might'be been talking about a new phone or something .. ;)
Nov 16 11:41:01 <XorA> two waste sacks of polystyrene beads :-)
Nov 16 11:41:38 <XorA> torpor: well Ive got a new phone if you want to talk new phones, but its a HTC Kaiser so we'll probably get booted from channel
Nov 16 11:41:46 <torpor> heh
Nov 16 11:42:07 <torpor> damnit i just want my gta01 back so i can keep working on code.  ah well.  i'll get excited about new openmoko-capable phones once i have a release or two to gloat about. ;)
Nov 16 11:43:41 <torpor> actually, J1 pinouts are not to be found: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board
Nov 16 11:43:51 <torpor> so i should just go on the basis of an ARM JTAG cable, eh?
Nov 16 11:44:11 <roh> torpor its arm standard. but the pinout should be in the schematic we released
Nov 16 11:44:41 <torpor> okay i'll check it out
Nov 16 11:44:53 <torpor> horvatj73: i'm going to the lab this afternoon around 3pm.. wanna join me for some hacking on this?
Nov 16 11:45:24 <torpor> horvatj73: fyi, i've confirmed that the debug board can be used with a *working* neo .. got at least into the jtag prompt today, even if it was very flakey, using the working neo i got from phil
Nov 16 11:45:45 <torpor> horvatj73: so i'm going to the lab to wire up an out-of-band jtag adapter that goes straight to the test pads .. and then we'll see if we get anywhere.
Nov 16 11:45:57 <torpor> horvatj73: did the new kit arrive?  ;)
Nov 16 11:47:20 <Psi> torpor, might pay to check the two buttons aren't shorted on, who knows what effect that would have.
Nov 16 11:47:30 <torpor> Psi: you mean aux and power?
Nov 16 11:47:33 <Psi> yea
Nov 16 11:47:42 <torpor> i'll remove the whole pcb from the shell and check.
Nov 16 11:49:38 <XorA> torpor: you could wire a current meter into battery, then you know its on when current jumps
Nov 16 11:50:08 <Psi> also giving the PCB a blow with compressed air might be worth it to, just incase dust or something is shorting something
Nov 16 11:50:40 <XorA> torpor: then when you finish all this, you can setup the first Neo repair shop
Nov 16 11:51:23 <torpor> i bloody want to write software, not hack on hardware! :)
Nov 16 11:51:27 <torpor> but okay: the pcb is out.
Nov 16 11:52:08 <torpor> question is how to hold the battery in now that the case is not there .. ;(
Nov 16 11:53:01 <BenO> Black plastic tape :)
Nov 16 11:53:07 <Psi> i hate cellphone batteries, they are damn annoying to connect wires too
Nov 16 11:53:42 <Psi> i wouldnt do anything too dodgy with power connections, dont want to short them :(
Nov 16 11:54:39 <torpor> okay same results
Nov 16 11:54:41 <torpor> totaly dead neo
Nov 16 11:55:00 <torpor> i think its time this neo went back to its maker ... 
Nov 16 11:58:46 <yoyo> is someone from poland?
Nov 16 11:59:09 * CM guesses around 40 million are
Nov 16 11:59:11 <XorA> yoyo: hrw is
Nov 16 11:59:34 <yoyo> XorA: thx
Nov 16 11:59:55 <hrw> yoyo: mieszkasz na zegrzu?
Nov 16 12:00:51 <zash> ish bin ein kartoffel
Nov 16 12:01:25 <CM> s/is/Ic 
Nov 16 12:01:44 <borg_> but thats not polish :)
Nov 16 12:02:16 <torpor> zash: du bist ein erdapfel
Nov 16 12:02:33 <yoyo> hrw: priv?
Nov 16 12:02:43 <mickeyl> hahaha
Nov 16 12:02:45 <CM> torpor: Sagt man das in Österreich?
Nov 16 12:03:10 <zash> feles nigra est!
Nov 16 12:03:12 <ScaredyCat> is that a potato?
Nov 16 12:03:18 <torpor> CM: ja.  statt broetchen, semmel, u.s.w
Nov 16 12:03:40 <CM> torpor: I noticed the semmel thing when I was there
Nov 16 12:03:56 <torpor> confuses the hell out of me.
Nov 16 12:04:08 <torpor> i'm australian, learned german in germany, now i gotta learn it all over again .. 
Nov 16 12:04:19 <hrw> XorA: the funny thing is that yoyo lives ~1km from me
Nov 16 12:04:20 <CM> Hehe
Nov 16 12:04:32 <XorA> hrw: shout loader then
Nov 16 12:04:51 <Stephmw> XorA: finally have the box in my hands :)
Nov 16 12:05:00 <XorA> Stephmw: Yay, I hope its ok
Nov 16 12:05:13 <XorA> Stephmw: it should be charged and boot :-)
Nov 16 12:05:18 * CM knows Stephmw's devious plans for it
Nov 16 12:06:19 <torpor> okay i'm gonna give up on this neo and just use the working one i've got. 
Nov 16 12:06:52 <torpor> one whole week wasted. ;( 
Nov 16 12:07:00 <CM> Sucks
Nov 16 12:07:09 <torpor> yup
Nov 16 12:07:38 <mickeyl> torpor: you still want the new debug board though, right?
Nov 16 12:08:06 <torpor> mickeyl: if you've shipped it, yes.  if you haven't shipped it, don't bother.  i'm going to get an RMA from openmoko and get it sorted that way.
Nov 16 12:08:25 <torpor> the fact is, this neo is dead.  its deceased.  its meeting its maker.
Nov 16 12:08:29 <torpor> it is pining for the fjords.
Nov 16 12:08:31 <mickeyl> hehe
Nov 16 12:08:40 <mickeyl> k, i was just about to start digging and packing
Nov 16 12:08:53 <mickeyl> if you need one at some point of time, you have one. just ping me
Nov 16 12:09:00 <torpor> roh: any chance you could tell me how long the RMA process works?  i know you probably don't handle that stuff at openmoko, but .. you're the only one i know there who might have a clue.
Nov 16 12:09:17 <Stephmw> XorA: hmmm, either the battery is completely dead, or there's more than just pressing ON
Nov 16 12:09:17 <torpor> mickeyl: very nice of you sir.  i shall remember your generosity, and hope not to strain it well in the future. ;)
Nov 16 12:09:43 <mickeyl> hehe
Nov 16 12:09:47 <mickeyl> you're welcome
Nov 16 12:09:56 * Stephmw plugs the power in
Nov 16 12:10:20 <Stephmw> ok, charge light comes on
Nov 16 12:10:23 <torpor> my partner on the openmoko project (horvat) has ordered a new advanced kit to replace our busted debug board and his also-non-functioning neo .. and we will just get these neo's RMA'ed, since they just don't work.
Nov 16 12:11:43 <XorA> Stephmw: bugger, the wrapping might have pressed the power
Nov 16 12:11:44 <Stephmw> aha, it boots
Nov 16 12:12:01 <Stephmw> XorA: no worriesm I'll charge it up - how much charge do you think it holds?
Nov 16 12:12:17 <XorA> Stephmw: last I ran it I think it lasted about an hour
Nov 16 12:12:27 <XorA> Stephmw: new it used to last 3 hours on Sharp ROM
Nov 16 12:12:49 <CM> Kind of like a Neo then.. :P
Nov 16 12:12:50 <Stephmw> XorA: ok, that'll do until I snap a new one off ebay
Nov 16 12:13:27 <XorA> Stephmw: last I searched there were a couple of UK companies doing replacements
Nov 16 12:14:34 * Stephmw nods
Nov 16 12:14:49 <ar0x> LaF0rge: ?
Nov 16 12:15:12 <CM> ar0x: You're read the blog post or?
Nov 16 12:15:15 <Ghiottone|work> back
Nov 16 12:15:22 <gi-el> it makes sense
Nov 16 12:15:37 <ar0x> CM: no
Nov 16 12:15:57 <CM> ar0x: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16/#20071116-leaving_openmoko
Nov 16 12:16:01 <Ghiottone|work> torpor: I used osm for my tests. There is a way to get a submap for the area you are interested in, if it is small (i.e. city size area)
Nov 16 12:16:48 <Ghiottone|work> torpor: instructions are on navit's wiki
Nov 16 12:17:20 <torpor> Ghiottone|work: great to know, thanks!  i'll check it out once i've spent a few days catching up on this weeks lost coding .. ;
Nov 16 12:18:12 <ar0x> CM: thanks, is there any coreteam member here I can talk to ?
Nov 16 12:18:42 <CM> ar0x: Several, just ask and maybe they'll answer :)
Nov 16 12:19:45 <ar0x> ok, but it quite "private" business
Nov 16 12:20:27 <CM> Then mail and ask maybe? :)
Nov 16 12:21:20 <ar0x> I didn't any response in more than 2 months ...
Nov 16 12:21:51 <ar0x> and if I have no direct email, it will become even harder to get a reply ...
Nov 16 12:23:31 <mickeyl> ar0x: please give us a hint what this is about and we can tell you whom to contact
Nov 16 12:24:12 <ar0x> ok, I guess I've nothing to lose
Nov 16 12:25:07 <ar0x> back in june, LaF0rge takes contact with a netbsd developer to know if netbsd was interested to support the phone
Nov 16 12:25:55 <ar0x> two developers where interested and he accepted to ship kit to them
Nov 16 12:26:15 <mickeyl> right i remember this
Nov 16 12:26:16 <ar0x> and the story finish here, no news, since
Nov 16 12:26:22 <mickeyl> hmm
Nov 16 12:26:53 <ar0x> I ping roh last month, another developer ping LaF0rge and he said he 'll try to find kit
Nov 16 12:27:05 <ar0x> and also, no news since then
Nov 16 12:27:18 <CM> You want to know who got it or?
Nov 16 12:27:38 <CM> Or you never did get it?
Nov 16 12:27:41 <ar0x> nothing was sent
Nov 16 12:27:48 <ar0x> nothing was ever received
Nov 16 12:28:30 <ar0x> and no reply from anyone from the openmoko project, a total blackout
Nov 16 12:29:12 <ar0x> so basicaly, what I want to know is if the cooperation is dead, stalled or whatever
Nov 16 12:29:20 <CM> ar0x: I guess it just slipped through since they were so busy
Nov 16 12:30:00 <mickeyl> ar0x: ok, with the recent developments in structure i can't comment on that. i hope LaF0rge just read this and will comment.
Nov 16 12:30:54 <ar0x> www/win 14
Nov 16 12:30:59 <ar0x> oups ..
Nov 16 12:33:17 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl ping
Nov 16 12:33:32 * CM kicks CIA-13, hoping some commit logs will fall out
Nov 16 12:33:47 <mickeyl> Ghiottone|work: pong
Nov 16 12:34:06 <mickeyl> CM: i already reported on #cia, but it seems they have no idea why it doesn'twork
Nov 16 12:34:56 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl I have discovered the elf statifier program. it is able to procude a statically linked executable from a dynamically linked one from only the binary and .so objects
Nov 16 12:35:43 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl it is a kind of hackish but I though it could be useful for gllin. I contacted the developer and he is willing to do the port to the Neo
Nov 16 12:36:04 <mickeyl> interesting.
Nov 16 12:36:09 <mickeyl> we have a solution using LD_PRELOAD though
Nov 16 12:36:14 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl do you think it is a good idea and might be of help?
Nov 16 12:36:15 <LaF0rge> beware of the license implications
Nov 16 12:36:16 <mickeyl> (using the old oabi gllin on eabi)
Nov 16 12:36:26 <LaF0rge> glibc is LGPL and that differentiates between static and dynamic linking
Nov 16 12:36:45 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl yes I know. I think that starting from that solution it would be possible to obtain a single usable executable
Nov 16 12:37:23 <Ghiottone|work> LaF0rge: interesting issue.
Nov 16 12:37:24 <flexd> mickeyl: Do you know if twisted will work on OM/Does it take too much resources to run on the neo?
Nov 16 12:37:27 <roh> ar0x oh.. sorry.. i did not hear anything back from above about more freephones.
Nov 16 12:37:56 <flexd> Just thinking of it, because twisted + pygtk = real easy network applications and such
Nov 16 12:38:04 <ar0x> we will have to continue on qemu then, thanks :)
Nov 16 12:38:06 <mickeyl> flexd: twisted should work ok. i never tried though
Nov 16 12:38:30 <flexd> mickeyl: I will probably need to recompile it for arm i guess, but i'm jus thinking resource-wise
Nov 16 12:38:38 <LaF0rge> roh: yes, I asked ar0x to send mail to coreteam and I'll then pass it on to sean and ask about the general situation wrt. free phones
Nov 16 12:38:45 <flexd> I've heard it's a bit heavy on the resources, but would be grand if it worked on the phone :)
Nov 16 12:38:54 <mickeyl> flexd: well, IIRC i have added twisted to OE years ago
Nov 16 12:39:06 <mickeyl> so a 'bitbake twisted' should do it :D
Nov 16 12:39:32 <flexd> mickeyl: oh. excellent!
Nov 16 12:39:59 <mickeyl> not necessarily the latest version though, but that can be fixed
Nov 16 12:40:09 <flexd> awsome ^ 
Nov 16 12:40:20 <mickeyl> if you miss anything python in OE, just ping me. I'm commited to everything python in OE
Nov 16 12:40:27 <roh> LaF0rge well. i took care and explained everything and the issue just drowned in the stormy waters
Nov 16 12:40:44 <flexd> great, when the gta02 gets out im gonna live in python on the neo ^ 
Nov 16 12:40:58 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl to port statifier I will have to work with the developer and give him ssh access. also a person with good knowledge of the assembler could help. If there is enough interest we'll start the port
Nov 16 12:41:19 <roh> ar0x i think i can try getting you some gta02 freephones lateron, but for gta01 it is somehow a bit late and i really do not see too much reason
Nov 16 12:41:42 <roh> atlest not enough to push something through and do that again for gta02 )
Nov 16 12:41:43 <mickeyl> Ghiottone|work: well, i think it's interesting. the actual licensing is another issue, but technically I'd like to see tha
Nov 16 12:41:54 <CM> ar0x: How far along are you using only qemu?
Nov 16 12:43:02 <ar0x> CM: we have a booting kernel and basic device detection
Nov 16 12:43:12 <CM> Cool :)
Nov 16 12:44:01 <ar0x> roh: interesting, is there any ETA ? (just to have an idea)
Nov 16 12:44:21 <roh>  .oO(perhaps somebody from the 850mhz possie is interrested in donating one to the netbsd project *ducks)
Nov 16 12:44:23 <Ghiottone|work> mickeyl ok. I hope to do some work next week
Nov 16 12:44:41 <hrw> mickeyl: we have twisted 2.x in OE - I merged it from Poky
Nov 16 12:44:47 <roh> ar0x not really. i really would like to know myself, but we cannot give any exact date.
Nov 16 12:45:12 <ar0x> CM: the biggest problem I think is our lack of NAND flash support
Nov 16 12:47:17 <roh> ar0x eventually you can team up with the freebsd guys in designing and implementing the bsd-mtd-and-jffs-clone
Nov 16 13:00:59 <mickeyl> hrw|afk: cool, thanks
Nov 16 13:03:31 <Elrond> Hi mickeyl BTW! :)
Nov 16 13:04:16 <mickeyl> hey Elrond 
Nov 16 13:04:18 <mickeyl> long time no see
Nov 16 13:04:21 <mickeyl> how are you doing?
Nov 16 13:04:30 <woglinde> hi mickeyl and elrond
Nov 16 13:04:35 <mickeyl> yo woglinde 
Nov 16 13:05:24 <torpor> whats the name of the pulseaudio cmd line app again?  it doesn't seem to be on the latest image by default .. 
Nov 16 13:06:00 <mickeyl> pulseaudio -C
Nov 16 13:06:09 <Elrond> mickeyl - I'm fine, was donig lots of other stuff not related to OM. :)
Nov 16 13:06:22 <torpor> mickeyl: i thought it was like pacmd or something, but ok .. 
Nov 16 13:06:28 <woglinde> *g*
Nov 16 13:06:36 <woglinde> pulseaudio sounds reasonable
Nov 16 13:06:42 <mickeyl> pulseaudio rocks
Nov 16 13:06:43 <mickeyl> however
Nov 16 13:06:44 <edistar> hello
Nov 16 13:06:46 <mickeyl> 0.9.7 is a nightmare
Nov 16 13:07:00 <mickeyl> and 0.9.6 suddenly decided to no longer load samples for me if built on my machine
Nov 16 13:07:01 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Nov 16 13:07:07 <torpor> hmm.
Nov 16 13:07:13 <mickeyl> which is the major showstopper for releaseing the november snapshot
Nov 16 13:07:16 <mickeyl> i had not found the cause yedt
Nov 16 13:07:37 <woglinde> mickeyl version 0.9.7 of pulseadudio?
Nov 16 13:07:41 <mickeyl> no
Nov 16 13:07:42 <torpor> well as of last week i was working on a nice GUI to a pulseaudio-based sample playback toy, but i haven't been able to keep up with things since i broke my neo
Nov 16 13:07:43 <mickeyl> 0.9.6
Nov 16 13:07:48 <mickeyl> cross-checking with a build machine where it always worked now
Nov 16 13:08:27 <mickeyl> woglinde: 0.9.7 pulseaudio is a nightmare, since it only works with a brand new libtool, which in turn breaks stuff in OE
Nov 16 13:08:30 <mickeyl> *doublesigh*
Nov 16 13:08:32 <roh> mickeyl we can knock on lennarts door.. i think he moved to berlin recently 
Nov 16 13:08:33 <mickeyl> ~lart libtool
Nov 16 13:08:33 * apt takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays libtool in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed
Nov 16 13:08:42 <mickeyl> roh: lets do that!
Nov 16 13:09:06 <woglinde> mickeyl hm
Nov 16 13:09:13 <woglinde> rename libtoolbinary
Nov 16 13:09:19 <woglinde> and then you go
Nov 16 13:09:42 <mickeyl> ?
Nov 16 13:09:49 <mickeyl> ah
Nov 16 13:09:54 <Elrond> Can't pulseaudio use its own libtool?
Nov 16 13:10:08 <torpor> confirmed: pulseaudio is borked on todays build here too
Nov 16 13:10:12 <roh> mickeyl also you could just ask him directly here in irc
Nov 16 13:10:25 <mickeyl> torpor: really?
Nov 16 13:10:32 <mickeyl> grrr
Nov 16 13:10:34 <roh> mickeyl mezcalero here in freenode
Nov 16 13:10:43 <torpor> mickeyl: build as of this morning
Nov 16 13:10:44 <woglinde> mickeyl let libtool-1.5.10 libtool and libtool 1.5.24 libtool-1.5.24
Nov 16 13:10:47 <woglinde> that shpuld work
Nov 16 13:11:05 <mickeyl> well for the snapshot i would rather like to get 0.9.6 back
Nov 16 13:11:11 <woglinde> but for the .m4 file and other stuff another dir should be used
Nov 16 13:11:15 <roh> mickeyl i have him on the freephones list, but just after we stopped shipping gta01 freephones..
Nov 16 13:11:16 <woglinde> yes its a hack
Nov 16 13:11:32 <mickeyl> roh: gta02
Nov 16 13:11:55 <torpor> how does one get on that wonderful sounding freephones list?  
Nov 16 13:11:57 <roh> mickeyl ack. just need to make that happen first
Nov 16 13:12:15 <Elrond> How's gta02 going anyway?
Nov 16 13:12:22 <woglinde> torpor um you have to do serval thinks you wouldnt like *g*
Nov 16 13:12:40 <torpor> woglinde: such as?
Nov 16 13:12:58 <roh> torpor beeing cool enough, having done some work which we could use, or just know about stuff and have time to contribute it
Nov 16 13:13:14 <woglinde> torpor install 30x times windows vista, sleep with your boss ....
Nov 16 13:13:56 <torpor> roh: i am trying to get a job in embedded linux world after doing it for the last 5 years, then taking a 1 year sabbatical.  i worked on music-apps for embedded linux during that time.  i'm working on an openmoko app suite right now that shows off openmoko, as well as my abilities to write cool music apps for embedded linux.  so i hope i have some contributions to make!
Nov 16 13:14:20 <torpor> woglinde: okay, you got me.  yuck.  windows vista.  pft1!1!
Nov 16 13:14:28 <woglinde> torpor sorry I  hope you arent pissed for this little joke
Nov 16 13:14:32 <torpor> heh
Nov 16 13:14:36 <torpor> not at all
Nov 16 13:14:36 <woglinde> okay :)
Nov 16 13:14:41 <mickeyl> torpor: are you experienced w/ sstem-level work?
Nov 16 13:14:43 <mickeyl> system, even
Nov 16 13:14:50 <torpor> the onlything that pisses me off right now is that my advanced neo1973 kit turned out to be a load of bunk!
Nov 16 13:15:13 <torpor> mickeyl: yes, sure.  the last major thing i did was port midishare's assembly routines to ARM 
Nov 16 13:15:13 <mickeyl> torpor: is the Virus TI running embedded Linux?
Nov 16 13:15:25 <torpor> no, its running a custom OS.
Nov 16 13:15:28 <mickeyl> ah
Nov 16 13:16:12 <torpor> the custom linux work i did for them was shelved in favour of continuing the custom stuff ..
Nov 16 13:16:21 <mickeyl> mmh
Nov 16 13:16:23 <mickeyl> ~lart access
Nov 16 13:16:23 * apt frags access with his BFG9000
Nov 16 13:16:42 <torpor> hey .. they're all assembly programmers there.  they think linux is rubbish!  
Nov 16 13:16:46 <torpor> thats why i don't work there no more .. 
Nov 16 13:16:52 <mickeyl> i see
Nov 16 13:16:57 * roh makes the music go 8% faster and 50% louder.. hey.. it got day somehow
Nov 16 13:17:02 <torpor> but the TI is crap anyway.  4 different processors, 4 different languages.  shit.
Nov 16 13:17:17 <woglinde> roh how?
Nov 16 13:17:17 <mickeyl> ya. they had _tons_ of problems getting this thing to work
Nov 16 13:17:42 <torpor> i know, i was there, and i worked hard at all the problems.  still some major hardware deisgn issues, but it all got worked around in software.
Nov 16 13:17:47 <roh> woglinde selecting a new dj-set and turning the volume?
Nov 16 13:17:54 <torpor> and you wouldn't beileve how dependent the system is on the VST plugin side of things .. grr .. 
Nov 16 13:18:00 * torpor hates VST plugin SDK with a passion .. 
Nov 16 13:18:01 <roh> woglinde just using alsaplayer and moving the speed slider would be a bit ugly
Nov 16 13:18:05 <torpor> mickeyl: do you have a TI?
Nov 16 13:18:19 <mickeyl> torpor: no. I went for a V-Synth GT instead :F
Nov 16 13:18:22 <mickeyl> s/F/D
Nov 16 13:18:27 <torpor> cool.
Nov 16 13:18:38 <mickeyl> torpor: how "settled" are you in vienna?
Nov 16 13:18:38 <guillaum1> hi woglinde
Nov 16 13:18:41 <torpor> i've got a TI, but i never use it.  i swore off the virus for a few years.
Nov 16 13:18:43 <woglinde> roh okay I thought on the neo
Nov 16 13:18:49 <woglinde> hi guillaum1
Nov 16 13:18:51 <torpor> mickeyl: pretty much settled, but its only been 6 months ... 
Nov 16 13:19:00 <mickeyl> torpor: why vienna?
Nov 16 13:19:11 <roh> woglinde well.. if somebody would port the alsaplayer-engine to something useful like gst i would be very happy
Nov 16 13:19:13 <torpor> coz my wife is from vienna.  we moved here to have our first child, flynn . 
Nov 16 13:19:24 <roh> it also can play mp3 and ogg backwards at variable speed
Nov 16 13:19:55 <woglinde> guillaum I am think I can test midpath qt4 port today
Nov 16 13:20:04 <woglinde> yesterday I had some problems
Nov 16 13:20:09 <mickeyl> torpor: i see. 
Nov 16 13:20:31 <woglinde> but in my bus trip I realized what I did wrong using gcc instead of g++  for compiling
Nov 16 13:20:37 <torpor> mickeyl: should i send someone my resume anyway?  i'd love nothing more than to hack fulltime on openmoko and work on the music/media side of thins.
Nov 16 13:21:04 <torpor> would be good to get midishare into OE too, so that we can do things like create a bluetooth MIDI network of devices, and such .. 
Nov 16 13:22:45 <guillaum1> woglinde, cool !!!
Nov 16 13:22:53 <mickeyl> torpor: Yeah, why not. It's always important to know people who can do stuff. Please send it to me.
Nov 16 13:23:00 <torpor> mickeyl: will do
Nov 16 13:23:09 <torpor> and in the meantime, i'll work on finishing my first moko app .. 
Nov 16 13:23:14 <mickeyl> excellent :)
Nov 16 13:23:15 <torpor> which requires a working pulseaudio.
Nov 16 13:23:19 <torpor> :)
Nov 16 13:23:26 <mickeyl> could you have a hand in debugging that?
Nov 16 13:23:45 <mickeyl> i've seen it bails out somewhere in the sample-loader-code
Nov 16 13:23:50 <mickeyl> w/ "premature end of sample"
Nov 16 13:23:54 <mickeyl> although the sample is 100% correct
Nov 16 13:23:55 <torpor> argh!  i've been debugging (hardware) all week!  but yeah, sure .. 
Nov 16 13:23:56 <mickeyl> and didn't change
Nov 16 13:24:07 <zecke> LaF0rge: good luck and thank you for your passion and labor.
Nov 16 13:24:08 <mickeyl> heh, no worries. just if you want :)
Nov 16 13:24:30 <torpor> burning new image now .. 
Nov 16 13:24:51 <mickeyl> if you can see it too, i'm kind of reliefed
Nov 16 13:24:55 <mickeyl> i really thought it was my build machine
Nov 16 13:25:02 <mickeyl> (went to x86_64 from i686)
Nov 16 13:26:26 <torpor> burning jfs now, will let you know whats up with my only working neo in a few minutes .. 
Nov 16 13:26:43 <mickeyl> robtaylor: I'm reading the OHM archive to get up to speed w/ the latest developments. I will also meet with KC to discuss OHM and some dbus APIs on munday.
Nov 16 13:26:45 <mickeyl> monday, even
Nov 16 13:26:58 <mickeyl> thanks
Nov 16 13:27:14 <mickeyl> it starts normal here, but i can hear no sound because of the sample problem
Nov 16 13:27:24 <LaF0rge> zecke: thanks
Nov 16 13:27:44 <mickeyl> LaF0rge: you and zecke are going to FOSS.in? you could travel together
Nov 16 13:30:15 <LaF0rge> mickey: I'm going. I've already booked my tickets
Nov 16 13:30:44 <sinbaski> Hi, guys, I am experimenting a new AKA protocol on openmoko and am hacking in gsmd. Any advice about where to start?
Nov 16 13:31:05 <zecke> mickeyl: I have my tickets booked as well and I might even have a hotel
Nov 16 13:31:35 <mickeyl> ah so you have your tickets already
Nov 16 13:31:53 <XorA> zecke: take a box in case :-)
Nov 16 13:32:19 <zecke> XorA: I think not having any accomodation in Europe is fun, I don't think it is fun in india
Nov 16 13:32:34 <XorA> zecke: hide in lrg or LaF0rge rooms :-)
Nov 16 13:32:43 <zecke> XorA: oh liam is coming?
Nov 16 13:32:54 <XorA> zecke: I think so
Nov 16 13:33:36 <LaF0rge> I'm staying with Atul Chitnis' family, as usual.
Nov 16 13:33:48 <LaF0rge> so no hotel room in my case...
Nov 16 13:43:53 <flexd> hmm How is the neo gonna be for playing music?
Nov 16 13:44:03 <torpor> great
Nov 16 13:44:08 <flexd> I mean, what kind of quality can be expected if wearing a headset? :)
Nov 16 13:44:12 <torpor> if you mean .mp3 files, it works .. 
Nov 16 13:44:19 <flexd> mostly .mp3
Nov 16 13:44:23 <flexd> aslong as it can play mp3
Nov 16 13:44:27 <torpor> for basic sample playback i'm finding it pretty decent to be honest.
Nov 16 13:44:39 <torpor> .wav files, 16bit, 44.1kz .. 
Nov 16 13:44:45 <flexd> as a mp3 player? (for the future anyway, if/when software gets made)
Nov 16 13:44:56 <torpor> the software is made .. mediaplayer works fairly well .. 
Nov 16 13:45:09 <flexd> or would the sound quality of a mp3 song be absolute rubbish :/
Nov 16 13:45:22 <flexd> I have this huge ass 20gb creative zen sleek brick of a mp3 player
Nov 16 13:45:44 <flexd> and i need drivers and shit to connect it to my machine, and a special program to transfer music and stuff, thinking of getting a new mp3 player
Nov 16 13:45:46 <_buz> sheesh the gtk vs qtopia vs android post is one batch of rambling
Nov 16 13:45:54 <torpor> flexd: the neo plays mp3's fine.
Nov 16 13:46:00 <flexd> but if i can do that on the neo when i get one i wont have to :D!
Nov 16 13:46:40 <torpor> it works fine as an mp3 player today, and i bet the gta02 will be great for DJ apps too .. ;)
Nov 16 13:46:49 <flexd> torpor: awsome :)
Nov 16 13:46:55 <flexd> awesome*
Nov 16 13:47:16 <flexd> That settles it then, instead of buying a neo and a mp3 player i can buy a neo and like.. a xbox360 and play assasins creed! :o
Nov 16 13:47:33 <flexd> Way to go, only one months worth of money spent in a day \o/
Nov 16 13:48:12 <torpor> not only that but because its a phone as well, you can play mp3's to your mates .. ;)
Nov 16 13:48:44 <flexd> it's gonna be awsomeness :)
Nov 16 13:50:04 <edistar> flexd: if it arrives sometime..
Nov 16 13:50:59 <tuukkah> what we have now is awesomeness too :-)
Nov 16 13:51:24 <Elrond> mickeyl - vienna is a really nice city. :-)
Nov 16 13:51:37 <_buz> do we have any news on GTA02 progress anyway?
Nov 16 13:51:46 <torpor> Elrond: it is indeed, and today it is covered in snow...
Nov 16 13:52:17 <tuukkah> _buz, we always have http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#GTA02_hardware_production_and_qualification
Nov 16 13:52:37 <Elrond> rugek - I think, it snowed already yesterday, no?
Nov 16 13:52:40 <Elrond> Huh.
Nov 16 13:52:46 <Elrond> torpor - I think, it snowed already yesterday, no?
Nov 16 13:52:53 <_buz> i consider that as "we have no news" :(
Nov 16 13:53:00 <torpor> yup today too
Nov 16 13:54:09 <Elrond> torpor - Last time I was in vienna, I was in that "chaos-like" thingy in Rathausstrasse. ;)
Nov 16 13:54:26 <Elrond> I really forgot the name.
Nov 16 13:54:53 <tuukkah> metalab ?-)
Nov 16 13:55:06 <ScaredyCat> gneeh! bloody mac users
Nov 16 13:55:21 <Elrond> tuukkah - Yeah, metalab.
Nov 16 13:57:42 <torpor> yeah i go there a lot, i'm a paying member..
Nov 16 13:57:53 <torpor> going there tonight for a little openmoko hacking
Nov 16 13:58:08 <torpor> \i'm sort of the openmoko guy there right now .. got a small group gatherhing every week
Nov 16 13:58:24 <torpor> i only wish we had more phones at the metalab so we could do more workshops
Nov 16 13:58:34 <torpor> been meaning to do something about that, but we don't have the $$ there right now
Nov 16 13:58:56 <edistar> what is metalab?
Nov 16 13:59:20 <ScaredyCat> !google metalab
Nov 16 13:59:22 <cdbot2> metalab @ http://www.metalab.com.au/%20class=l | Metalab Wiki - Metalab @ http://metalab.at/%20class=l | ibiblio linux archive @ http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/%20class=l 
Nov 16 13:59:24 <torpor> http://metalab.at
Nov 16 13:59:56 <edistar> thx
Nov 16 14:00:14 <Elrond> torpor - Each week?
Nov 16 14:00:20 <edistar> sounds cool
Nov 16 14:00:26 <edistar> I wish we had that nearby..
Nov 16 14:00:29 <torpor> Elrond: yup
Nov 16 14:01:15 <Elrond> torpor - What weekday (I might come, when I'm again in vienna)
Nov 16 14:01:37 <torpor> saturdays but check te schedule at metalab.at ..
Nov 16 14:01:44 <hrw> lets check does my neo battery get enough charge...
Nov 16 14:03:35 <Elrond> torpor - Ahh, that sounds good. I'm "usually" (well, IF I am) around a weekend in vienna. ;)
Nov 16 14:04:00 <torpor> we lost a lot of time this week because of broken neo's .. out of 3 in our group, 2 are busted.
Nov 16 14:04:23 <torpor> but we got a new one today, and hopefully we can debrick one of the other ones, and send the busted one (mine) back for NRA replacement.
Nov 16 14:05:10 <Elrond> NRA?
Nov 16 14:05:15 <torpor> return
Nov 16 14:05:19 <Elrond> Ahh.
Nov 16 14:05:36 <roh> i think he means RMA
Nov 16 14:05:43 <torpor> the idea is for us to have weekly meetings to discuss app development and progress from the broader openmoko community - you guys - so everyone is welcome.  but we surely need a few more bits of hardware..
Nov 16 14:06:03 <torpor> roh: i mean RMA, yes.  sorry, my boy is sitting with me, its hard to type .. ;)
Nov 16 14:06:17 <Elrond> Yeah, for me the battery was busted. Need to take some time to see if everything is working with the new battery.
Nov 16 14:06:32 <roh> ok then.. need to sleep a bit.. bbl
Nov 16 14:06:42 <Elrond> Sleep well, roh ;)
Nov 16 14:06:49 <mickeyl> ok, now it gets ugly
Nov 16 14:07:02 <mickeyl> pulseaudio works fine on the other buildmachine
Nov 16 14:07:10 <mickeyl> s/on/if built on/
Nov 16 14:07:10 <apt> mickeyl meant: pulseaudio works fine if built on the other buildmachine
Nov 16 14:07:31 <mickeyl> x86_64 as well, but using 32bit userland
Nov 16 14:07:34 <torpor> mickeyl: pulseaudio is busted here too.
Nov 16 14:07:46 <torpor> new fresh build, 32bit machine, ubuntustudio.
Nov 16 14:07:55 <mickeyl> ubuntu here as well
Nov 16 14:07:59 <mickeyl> on the non-working
Nov 16 14:08:02 <mickeyl> debian on the working
Nov 16 14:08:09 <mickeyl> grrrr
Nov 16 14:08:14 <torpor> double-grr..
Nov 16 14:08:34 <ScaredyCat> torpor: is that a job?
Nov 16 14:08:43 <mickeyl> looks like i can't trust my compiler anymore
Nov 16 14:08:46 <torpor> ScaredyCat: job? 
Nov 16 14:08:47 <mickeyl> that could mean 'back to mandriva'...
Nov 16 14:08:50 <ScaredyCat> metalab?
Nov 16 14:08:57 <torpor> no its a hacker group .. 
Nov 16 14:09:08 <torpor> i wish i could get paid to go there and talk shit all day, but i can't.  ;)
Nov 16 14:09:16 <ScaredyCat> oh, thought it was your job, would have been kinda cool...
Nov 16 14:09:20 <ScaredyCat> who runs it?
Nov 16 14:09:20 <torpor> yeah
Nov 16 14:09:33 <torpor> its sponsored by the austrian government, and the core membership runs it.
Nov 16 14:09:46 <torpor> its part of the dot-com funding that the austrian government does each year
Nov 16 14:09:48 * ScaredyCat points mickeyl at suse 
Nov 16 14:09:56 <ScaredyCat> that's pretty cool
Nov 16 14:10:00 <torpor> very cool .. but there is somehting daunting about seeing 100 teenage hackers get together at the same time and do cool shit .. ;)
Nov 16 14:10:02 <ScaredyCat> do they have staff?
Nov 16 14:10:09 <ScaredyCat> ie chemistry people 
Nov 16 14:10:17 <ScaredyCat> physics boffins etc
Nov 16 14:10:33 <ScaredyCat> or do people just walk in an do their thing
Nov 16 14:11:27 <torpor> its open you can come in if you like
Nov 16 14:11:37 <torpor> no staff as far as i know .. its all volunteer and membership based
Nov 16 14:11:59 <edistar> thats really cool! typical of vienna :)
Nov 16 14:12:04 <ScaredyCat> still kinda cool... 
Nov 16 14:12:06 <torpor> we had similar stuff like that in Los Angeles during the 90's .. sort of tech incubators .. but the viennese approach is much more socialist, and sorta more fun ...
Nov 16 14:12:09 <torpor> yeah
Nov 16 14:19:28 * Elrond dreams of going to vienna for 12/31 ;)
Nov 16 14:23:23 <robtaylor> mickeyl: cool :)
Nov 16 14:23:56 <robtaylor> mickeyl: btw, i'm just about to dump a load of patches for hal that cut the memory usage drastically and cuts startup time
Nov 16 14:24:04 <mickeyl> righto
Nov 16 14:24:05 <mickeyl> in with 'em!
Nov 16 14:24:09 <robtaylor> mickeyl: :)
Nov 16 14:24:16 <torpor> woot
Nov 16 14:24:19 <mickeyl> do we have the best version in OE?
Nov 16 14:24:37 <robtaylor> mickeyl: dunno, this'll be on it head
Nov 16 14:24:43 <robtaylor> *git
Nov 16 14:25:08 <robtaylor> mickeyl: btw, I've also been looking at udev a bit
Nov 16 14:25:11 <uniquezhu> hello all, i'm a new here
Nov 16 14:25:14 <edistar> uniquezhu: hi
Nov 16 14:25:53 <uniquezhu> edistar: hi
Nov 16 14:26:11 <mickeyl> robtaylor: anything to make it faster/leaner?
Nov 16 14:26:19 <robtaylor> mickeyl: you should make sure youre using a recent copy and set MAX_CHILDS to 1
Nov 16 14:26:48 <robtaylor> and MAX_CHILDS_RUNNING
Nov 16 14:27:17 <robtaylor> env var "UDEVD_MAX_CHILDS" and "UDEVD_MAX_CHILDS_RUNNING"
Nov 16 14:28:30 <robtaylor> mm. not sure about what to set for max_childs tbh,maybesomething larger than 1 would be better, worth having a play
Nov 16 14:29:00 <robtaylor> by default max_childs is 128 + (memsize / 4) and max_childs_running is 8 + (8 * cpus)
Nov 16 14:29:36 <robtaylor> n800 has too old a udev, and on startup there's 100's of forks by udex
Nov 16 14:30:19 <robtaylor> (oh, and for looking at your startup time, i really recommend using LTTng and start tracing in rcS)
Nov 16 14:32:35 <robtaylor> (though this has been in udev for about a year !)
Nov 16 14:34:39 <yoyo> question / idea : someone try to start montavista from motorolae680i or a780 on moko :)?
Nov 16 14:36:20 <|uniquezhu|> the angstrom distribution
Nov 16 14:36:29 <horvatj73> torpor: still there?
Nov 16 14:36:46 <horvatj73> I dropped off the openmoko set in the metalab right now
Nov 16 14:37:01 <horvatj73> so good luck warrior
Nov 16 14:37:11 <horvatj73> :P 
Nov 16 14:38:32 <|uniquezhu|> yoyo: there is moko rootfs for a780 on angstrom
Nov 16 14:38:51 <yoyo> |uniquezhu|: where?
Nov 16 14:39:18 <|uniquezhu|> yoyo: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/a780/
Nov 16 14:39:25 <torpor> horvatj73: thanks man!
Nov 16 14:39:30 <torpor> i'll have a good weekend now .. 
Nov 16 14:39:45 <|uniquezhu|> you can found the rootfs, zImage
Nov 16 14:40:38 <yoyo> |uniquezhu|: misunderstanding. I like do start monta vista on moko not openmoko on motorola
Nov 16 14:41:42 <horvatj73> torpor: I hope so...
Nov 16 14:41:45 <horvatj73> and me to?
Nov 16 14:41:49 <horvatj73> tooooo?
Nov 16 14:41:54 <torpor> yeah
Nov 16 14:41:58 <torpor> lets see if we can't get it all fixed.
Nov 16 14:42:03 <horvatj73> :) 
Nov 16 14:42:04 <|uniquezhu|> yoyo: oh, sorry 
Nov 16 14:42:28 <yoyo> |uniquezhu|: only for fun :P
Nov 16 14:43:00 <|uniquezhu|> hehe , i a new here, and i just have a e680
Nov 16 14:59:27 <yoyo> bye
Nov 16 15:18:07 <edistar> If I get the error: "U-boot failed to finish writing in 200 seconds, giving up." does that mean the u-boot version is broken?
Nov 16 15:19:52 <CM> edistar: While flashing qemu? (And it's 300 seconds or?)
Nov 16 15:20:06 <edistar> CM: yep
Nov 16 15:20:16 <edistar> CM: openmoko/flash.sh
Nov 16 15:20:32 <CM> I guess you have just updated or?
Nov 16 15:20:38 <edistar> CM: yes
Nov 16 15:20:55 <CM> Hmm.. Lots of people have had trouble with that lately
Nov 16 15:21:47 <CM> edistar: Put the full log in in a pastebin and ask balrog-kun about it
Nov 16 15:22:24 <edistar> CM: ok, I will
Nov 16 15:23:00 <edistar> CM: I just did the 'make qemu' the 'automatic' way and that doesn't work either
Nov 16 15:24:41 <Vegar> I get the same error
Nov 16 15:24:47 <Vegar> edistar: let me know if you find a fix
Nov 16 15:25:16 <edistar> Vegar: I used another u-boot some time ago but that doesn't work anymore for me
Nov 16 15:31:37 <flexd> has anyone seen josch? :/
Nov 16 15:31:40 <edistar> Vegar: I'm testing a few u-boots, but at the moment nothing
Nov 16 15:35:42 <fgau> flexd: josch is go to holiday this weekend
Nov 16 15:36:15 <flexd> ah
Nov 16 15:36:36 <flexd> that explains his mia'ness :), i found a solution to what we were looking for earlier, and it works great
Nov 16 15:36:49 <flexd> so he's gonna be happy when he gets back =D
Nov 16 15:39:00 <edistar> Vegar: could it maybe be qemu? no u-boot is working
Nov 16 15:39:27 <fgau> flexd:do you have news for the pyPhone project?
Nov 16 15:40:22 <edistar> the community hasn't heard of Sean for ages now, is he alright?
Nov 16 15:42:49 <loufoque> does OpenMoko aim to be Android-compatible?
Nov 16 15:43:05 <Vegar> edistar: I don't think it's qemu
Nov 16 15:43:06 <CVirus> Android sucks
Nov 16 15:43:08 <mwester> ??? What a strange question to ask
Nov 16 15:43:15 <mjr> I don't think OpenMoko aims towards anything with respect to Android at this point
Nov 16 15:43:26 <edistar> Vegar: what do you think it is then?
Nov 16 15:43:32 <Vegar> edistar: I'm trying to run openmoko/flash.sh on a machine where it used to work with freshly downloaded images
Nov 16 15:43:41 <Vegar> looks like it's about to time out
Nov 16 15:43:47 <edistar> Vegar: it used to work on my laptop too, but now it doesn't work anymore..
Nov 16 15:43:52 <edistar> I tried to just redo everything
Nov 16 15:43:56 <loufoque> Android is a development platform
Nov 16 15:44:01 <Vegar> edistar: it's the same qemu, so it can't be that
Nov 16 15:44:10 <loufoque> there could be a few nice applications for that platform
Nov 16 15:44:13 <Vegar> it could, of course, be some libraries
Nov 16 15:44:17 <loufoque> and it would be nice to run them on openmoko
Nov 16 15:44:34 <mjr> Though application compatibility will probably be attainable if/once they free their stuff. Given that, somebody(TM) will probably be interested enough to actualize that potential.
Nov 16 15:44:42 <zecke> loufoque: currently it is proprietary and the SDK license is quite restrictive. So once it is under a OpenSource license one could think about being compatible...
Nov 16 15:44:45 <edistar> Vegar: sure that qemu isn't modified?
Nov 16 15:44:50 <Vegar> yes
Nov 16 15:45:02 <Vegar> hmm.. wait..
Nov 16 15:45:06 <Vegar> could it be the flash script?
Nov 16 15:45:17 <zecke> loufoque: http://robilad.livejournal.com/22312.html
Nov 16 15:45:26 <flexd> fgau: yes
Nov 16 15:45:46 <flexd> I've found a way to add stuff to gtk windows without freezing stuff :)
Nov 16 15:46:26 <edistar> Vegar: do you have an old copy of flash.sh?
Nov 16 15:46:31 <Vegar> yes
Nov 16 15:46:36 <Vegar> it worked
Nov 16 15:46:39 <Vegar> interesting
Nov 16 15:46:41 <mwester> zecke:  Great link.
Nov 16 15:46:51 <Vegar> edistar: svn up -r 1977 openmoko/flash.sh
Nov 16 15:46:51 <edistar> Vegar: can you send me the old copy?
Nov 16 15:46:55 <edistar> Vegar: ah, ok
Nov 16 15:47:01 <Vegar> run that, it worked for me
Nov 16 15:48:41 <zecke> mwester: with so much Open Foo  stuff around, where so much is closed, we should rename OpenMoko to ClosedMoko...
Nov 16 15:48:59 <Vegar> edistar: is it working?
Nov 16 15:49:10 <edistar> Vegar: still going..
Nov 16 15:49:13 <flexd> Sup3rkiddo: You are the guy making pyPhone right? or was that josch making pyPhone for something you made?
Nov 16 15:49:26 <mwester> hehe!   It reminds me of when DEC renamed the VMS operating system "OpenVMS"
Nov 16 15:50:06 <edistar> Vegar: hanging at "pcf_write: charge voltage 4.20V" at the moment
Nov 16 15:50:20 <Vegar> ah, yeah, I got that too
Nov 16 15:50:28 <edistar> Vegar: just wait?
Nov 16 15:50:40 <Vegar> dunno, I cancelled it
Nov 16 15:50:56 <Vegar> try re-running it
Nov 16 15:51:04 <Vegar> make sure the qemu process is terminated as well
Nov 16 15:51:16 <edistar> ok, I'll try
Nov 16 15:53:38 <Vegar> edistar: there are some issues with these old scripts
Nov 16 15:53:52 <edistar> Vegar: still hangs at the same point
Nov 16 15:54:53 <Vegar> edistar: I got that too now
Nov 16 15:54:57 <Vegar> it worked the first time
Nov 16 15:55:25 <loufoque> zecke: woah. So open.
Nov 16 15:55:51 <Sup3rkiddo> flexd: josch
Nov 16 15:56:16 <edistar> Vegar: yeah, have a look what the difference is between the files ;)
Nov 16 15:58:33 <LetoTo> harald quit :(
Nov 16 15:58:55 <edistar> Vegar: do you have an idea what to do?
Nov 16 15:59:03 <Vegar> nope, no idea
Nov 16 15:59:20 <Vegar> edistar: you could try entering the commands manually
Nov 16 15:59:31 <Vegar> (to flash)
Nov 16 15:59:33 <edistar> Vegar: openmoko/flash.sh?
Nov 16 15:59:53 <Vegar> edistar: do what flash.sh does
Nov 16 15:59:54 <Vegar> by hand
Nov 16 16:00:00 <edistar> Vegar: that's a lot of work :P
Nov 16 16:00:21 <Vegar> edistar: yes, but if it works when you do it manually, the script is broken
Nov 16 16:00:25 <Vegar> if not, it's something else
Nov 16 16:02:00 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone know if torpor had his bricked neo fxed?
Nov 16 16:02:21 <edistar> Vegar: ok, I'll try..
Nov 16 16:04:14 <edistar> Vegar: do you use buildhost.openmoko.org?
Nov 16 16:04:26 <Vegar> yes
Nov 16 16:05:19 <edistar> Vegar: ok
Nov 16 16:08:06 <edistar> Vegar: u-boot failed to finish writing in 60 seconds, giving up
Nov 16 16:09:15 <edistar> Vegar: which OS do you have?
Nov 16 16:09:30 <Vegar> Debian GNU/Linux
Nov 16 16:10:12 <edistar> Vegar: lenny?
Nov 16 16:10:45 <Vegar> lenny/sid
Nov 16 16:10:56 <edistar> Vegar: how both?
Nov 16 16:11:04 <Vegar> some packages from sid, some from lenny
Nov 16 16:11:22 <edistar> Vegar: ok.. well, I'm running lenny so I don't understand why it doesn't work...
Nov 16 16:11:40 <edistar> Vegar: do you use a special u-boot?
Nov 16 16:11:44 <Vegar> no
Nov 16 16:13:55 <edistar> how do I use yet another flash.sh version>
Nov 16 16:13:56 <edistar> ?
Nov 16 16:14:45 <Vegar> what do you mean?
Nov 16 16:15:27 <edistar> Vegar: somehow when I start flashing it works, then it opens another process and continues and hangs then.. then when I kill the first process it tells me it has tried for 300seconds, which is not true as it has only been started for about 30 seconds..
Nov 16 16:16:05 <Vegar> that's probably because the process terminates itself after 300 seconds
Nov 16 16:16:15 <Sup3rkiddo> Vegar: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937
Nov 16 16:17:27 <edistar> Vegar: restart the user processes, you never know..
Nov 16 16:17:37 <Vegar> Sup3rkiddo: I've seen that
Nov 16 16:17:38 <edistar> Vegar: be back in a minute
Nov 16 16:17:53 <Sup3rkiddo> Vegar: oh sorry for the noise then =)
Nov 16 16:18:26 <Vegar> I guess we have to wait for the error to hit the script's maintainer
Nov 16 16:19:10 <Sup3rkiddo> it works here on gentoo fyi, had the same problem in debian..
Nov 16 16:20:02 <edistar> Vegar: re
Nov 16 16:23:15 <edistar> Vegar: oO, qemu:fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x38000000
Nov 16 16:24:33 <zoolooc> hi folks, can openmoko run in qemu-arm?
Nov 16 16:24:42 <borg_> yes
Nov 16 16:25:18 <borg_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu
Nov 16 16:25:42 <zoolooc> thanks, that's interesting, then I suppose, so do other linux phone distros
Nov 16 16:26:06 <edistar> zoolooc: good luck trying to emulate motorola OS ;)
Nov 16 16:26:27 <edistar> Vegar: what svn verions are there of openmoko/flash.sh?
Nov 16 16:26:39 <zoolooc> guess I'm not interested in that one :-)
Nov 16 16:26:53 <Vegar> edistar: svn log -r 1:HEAD openmoko/flash.sh
Nov 16 16:27:13 <edistar> Vegar: thanks!
Nov 16 16:29:56 <edistar> svn is super cool
Nov 16 16:30:52 <edistar> Vegar: brr.. I don't understand why it worked 6 days ago and doesn't anymore now
Nov 16 16:35:38 <flexd> does projects.openmoko.org usually take a long time to send a email to me?
Nov 16 16:35:44 <flexd> I registered but i havent gotten a mail yet
Nov 16 16:35:51 <flexd> it's like a hour ago
Nov 16 17:25:06 <summatusmentis> what's the default resolution of openmoko?
Nov 16 17:25:30 <edistar> summatusmentis: VGA
Nov 16 17:25:33 <abraxa_> 480x640 on the Neo
Nov 16 17:25:34 <borg_> 640x480
Nov 16 17:25:43 <ScaredyCat> 1x1
Nov 16 17:26:01 <edistar> ScaredyCat: what colour? ;)
Nov 16 17:26:06 <borg_> but openmoko runs on 240x320 fine too
Nov 16 17:26:07 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Oh come on. You're not THAT blind  yet.
Nov 16 17:26:09 <ScaredyCat> black
Nov 16 17:26:10 <borg_> at least some apps
Nov 16 17:26:17 <edistar> ScaredyCat: elegant
Nov 16 17:26:30 * ScaredyCat uses a blaille keyboard abraxa_
Nov 16 17:26:35 <ScaredyCat> blaille?
Nov 16 17:26:39 <ScaredyCat> braille
Nov 16 17:26:41 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 16 17:27:08 <DukeOfURL> any PCB hackers here?
Nov 16 17:33:57 <DukeOfURL> any soldering experts here?
Nov 16 17:34:15 <cjb_ie> what do you consider expert ;-)
Nov 16 17:36:08 <summatusmentis> seriously... I have a soldering iron... that's about the extent of my knowledge...
Nov 16 17:39:04 <ScaredyCat> hey, it doesn't matter how much solder it takes, so long ans the join works - right?
Nov 16 17:39:24 <edistar> as long as you don't damage the other parts ;)
Nov 16 17:41:19 <Writchie> what are you trying to solder?
Nov 16 17:42:31 <ScaredyCat> hhehehe cool - watch this...
Nov 16 17:43:31 <edistar> ScaredyCat: what?
Nov 16 17:43:52 <DukeOfURL> ok, so I dropped my Neo, and the AUX button popper off the PCB.
Nov 16 17:44:02 <DukeOfURL> Now I have to solder it back on.
Nov 16 17:44:19 <DukeOfURL> the switch is *very* small, with four connectors
Nov 16 17:44:19 <edistar> DukeOfURL: so you want to know how? good luck..
Nov 16 17:44:38 <edistar> DukeOfURL: from which height did it fall down?
Nov 16 17:45:27 <ScaredyCat> I jues went from wireless to wired edistar
Nov 16 17:45:29 <ScaredyCat> just
Nov 16 17:46:02 <Sup3rkiddo> speaking of falls, the back cover pops too easily for comfort
Nov 16 17:46:02 <DukeOfURL> edistar: about 18".  the USB cable was attached, which caused it to fall on the AUX button corner.
Nov 16 17:46:05 <edistar> ScaredyCat: but you didn't go offline... unfair, how do you do that?
Nov 16 17:46:13 <ScaredyCat> magic
Nov 16 17:46:14 <ScaredyCat> :D
Nov 16 17:46:22 <edistar> ScaredyCat: come on ;)
Nov 16 17:46:23 <DukeOfURL> the AUX switch is about 4mm square
Nov 16 17:46:24 <ScaredyCat> or dircproxy 
Nov 16 17:47:18 <DukeOfURL> I assume a wave soldering machine was used during manufacture...
Nov 16 17:47:18 <edistar> ScaredyCat: pff...I thought you had a method to automagically switch interface and gw so connection would stay
Nov 16 17:47:22 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: first I'd want to check the switch functions.
Nov 16 17:47:41 <DukeOfURL> yes, I need to know SPST or DPDT
Nov 16 17:47:47 <DukeOfURL> four connectors
Nov 16 17:47:57 <ScaredyCat> no, I have an automagical way of switching and still staying connected :)
Nov 16 17:48:27 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: it's probably spst with two sets of two pins wired togetehr
Nov 16 17:48:36 <DukeOfURL> checking
Nov 16 17:48:56 <edistar> ScaredyCat: also possible by just having irc running on a server in screen ;)
Nov 16 17:49:43 <ScaredyCat> yes, but this automatically runs through what happened when I was disconnected until I reconnect
Nov 16 17:49:44 <Writchie> DukeOfURL: hot air and solder paste would be best but looking at the photo you could do it with a pencil tip
Nov 16 17:49:47 <ScaredyCat> eg:
Nov 16 17:50:01 <ScaredyCat> [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <edistar> [18:43] ScaredyCat: what?
Nov 16 17:50:01 <ScaredyCat> [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <DukeOfURL> [18:43] ok, so I dropped my Neo, and the AUX button popper off the PCB.
Nov 16 17:50:01 <ScaredyCat> [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <DukeOfURL> [18:44] Now I have to solder it back on.
Nov 16 17:50:28 <ScaredyCat> and it'll do it for all channels 
Nov 16 17:50:34 <edistar> ScaredyCat: not bad, but you get a lot of nonsense too ;)
Nov 16 17:50:46 <ScaredyCat> I love nonsense :)
Nov 16 17:50:55 <mwester> nonsense!
Nov 16 17:51:24 <cjb_ie> DukeOfURL: wouldn't be wave soldering for anything in a phone - wave is only for pin through hole
Nov 16 17:51:41 <ScaredyCat> menhd£!
Nov 16 17:51:42 <cjb_ie> anything small enough to be in a modern phone is surface mount
Nov 16 17:52:07 <cjb_ie> solder paste is printed onto the bare PCB through a stencil, and components placed upon that
Nov 16 17:52:32 <SpeedEvil> ôthen you put it in a toaster-oven
Nov 16 17:52:36 <cjb_ie> board then goes through reflow, and as the solder paste melts the surface tension pulls each component into place if it wasn't mounted straight
Nov 16 17:52:39 <SpeedEvil> and wait till the flux melts
Nov 16 17:52:39 <DukeOfURL>  wel this is surface mounted switch
Nov 16 17:53:03 <cjb_ie> four pins should be no trouble to hand solder if you've a small enough soldering iron
Nov 16 17:53:06 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Nov 16 17:53:18 <DukeOfURL> with 20/20 vision
Nov 16 17:53:22 * SpeedEvil just bought a toaster-oven to do reflow
Nov 16 17:53:45 <DukeOfURL> it's soooo small I can hold the leads on the connectors and push the switch
Nov 16 17:53:51 <DukeOfURL> i can't
Nov 16 17:54:19 * CoreDump absolutely *hates* SD soldering
Nov 16 17:54:20 <SpeedEvil> this is why the chinese have bred techs with 4 arms.
Nov 16 17:54:23 <CoreDump> *SMD
Nov 16 17:54:32 <Writchie> SpeedEvil: and small fingers
Nov 16 17:55:23 <Writchie> DukeOfURL: its a snap with a hot air re-work station - do you know anybody 
Nov 16 17:55:38 <DukeOfURL> nope
Nov 16 17:55:41 <SpeedEvil> IMO - it's probably actually easier with a fine-tipped iron
Nov 16 17:55:49 <SpeedEvil> in a well lit place
Nov 16 17:56:29 <DukeOfURL> I wouldn't want to put the display in a toaster oven...
Nov 16 17:56:32 <SpeedEvil> you tin the pads with some fine solder, then hold with tweezers the switch onto one pad/pin, and then reflow it
Nov 16 17:56:55 <SpeedEvil> then press it down using that pin as a hinge gently and do the other three
Nov 16 17:57:14 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: no - this is for making a new complete board only
Nov 16 17:57:57 * mwester begins to wonder at the sudden spate of defunct neos...
Nov 16 18:00:40 <DukeOfURL> switch seems to be ok--SPST with four contacts
Nov 16 18:00:49 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 16 18:00:55 <SpeedEvil> They usually are IME
Nov 16 18:01:01 <SpeedEvil> but, it's worth checking
Nov 16 18:01:53 <DukeOfURL> SpeedEvil: what boards are you making?
Nov 16 18:02:13 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: random stuff
Nov 16 18:02:25 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: basically just process testing at the moment
Nov 16 18:03:26 <Writchie|lunch> SpeedEvil: ya gonna try BGA?
Nov 16 18:04:02 <SpeedEvil> yes. 
Nov 16 18:04:19 <Writchie|lunch> what size?
Nov 16 18:04:32 <Writchie|lunch> /size/pitch/
Nov 16 18:07:06 <SpeedEvil> Need to see what I can get.
Nov 16 18:08:37 <agimenez> Does anyone knows where I can get the gllin executable?
Nov 16 18:10:25 <CoreDump> agimenez: you can't legally
Nov 16 18:13:44 <mccarthy_> I am trying to run angstrom-based openmoko stuff on my h5000
Nov 16 18:13:57 <mccarthy_> I keep getting dbus errors ...
Nov 16 18:14:20 <mccarthy_> Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon:
Nov 16 18:14:20 <mccarthy_> Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session
Nov 16 18:14:20 <mccarthy_> GConf Error: No D-BUS daemon running
Nov 16 18:14:26 <mccarthy_> any ideas?
Nov 16 18:14:47 <mccarthy_> (dbus-daemon and gconfd-2 are both running
Nov 16 18:34:29 <abraxa_> mccarthy_: When do you get these messages?
Nov 16 18:36:46 <mmp> mccarthy_: hello:)
Nov 16 18:38:04 <mmp> mccarthy_: try e.g. dbus-launch dbus-monitor
Nov 16 18:42:53 <abraxa_> mccarthy_: The only things I can think of are: #1 d-bus failed to launch or #2 you started d-bus through ssh and the d-bus session somehow stayed local to that ssh session
Nov 16 18:51:24 <mccarthy_> abraxa_, hmmm that might make sense ...
Nov 16 18:51:29 <mccarthy_> mmp, hi
Nov 16 18:52:44 <mccarthy_> abraxa_, I am booting
Nov 16 18:52:54 <mccarthy_> getting nothing useful on the h5000
Nov 16 18:53:33 <mccarthy_> (dbus is starting on its own at boot, but apparently matchbox's session file is either not being used or is failing
Nov 16 18:54:10 <mccarthy_> then I am trying to run things like openmoko-dates from a serial connection where I have tried to change the DISPLAY variable to be local using 'export DISPLAY=:0.0'
Nov 16 18:55:14 <mccarthy_> hmm
Nov 16 18:55:25 <mccarthy_> maybe I just have a sessions scripts problem
Nov 16 18:55:55 <mccarthy_> how do I know what runlevel I am on? is 2 the "X" runlevel for angstrom ...?
Nov 16 19:00:08 <don-o> 'who -r' =>  run-level 3
Nov 16 19:00:19 <don-o> at least on desktop linux boxes
Nov 16 19:00:53 <mccarthy_> hmm
Nov 16 19:01:00 <mccarthy_> seems that busybox doesn't like -r
Nov 16 19:01:18 <mccarthy_> I think I recall run-level 2
Nov 16 19:01:27 <mccarthy_> hmm
Nov 16 19:01:32 <Vegar> run-level 2 on debian
Nov 16 19:01:32 <mccarthy_> typing runlevel tells me 5
Nov 16 19:11:03 <hhf423> moin
Nov 16 19:11:12 * hhf423 flashes the image from today
Nov 16 19:11:35 * hhf423 stares at the announcement from Harald
Nov 16 19:14:37 <ewon> announcement?
Nov 16 19:14:38 <ewon> url?
Nov 16 19:15:12 <hhf423> http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16/#20071116-leaving_openmoko
Nov 16 19:15:55 <edistar|away> ewon: check is blog
Nov 16 19:15:59 <edistar|away> s/is/his
Nov 16 19:16:00 * hhf423 boots
Nov 16 19:18:17 <ewon> shit
Nov 16 19:18:46 <hhf423> we'll see if thats bad in a few months or so
Nov 16 19:19:16 <hhf423> GTA02 should not suffer from this, should it?
Nov 16 19:20:52 <hhf423> hmmm, I wonder if the thing will ever finish booting...?
Nov 16 19:21:48 <hhf423> there should be music playing while the phone boots, with a nice, comforting voice saying "your phone is booting, please hold the line..."
Nov 16 19:22:04 <borg_> mh.. actually suspend to ram works now for me
Nov 16 19:22:05 <borg_> nice
Nov 16 19:22:27 <hhf423> borg_: on your pc or on your phone?
Nov 16 19:22:32 <borg_> on the phone ;)
Nov 16 19:23:54 <hhf423> does it wake on call?
Nov 16 19:24:05 <borg_> yes
Nov 16 19:24:14 <borg_> but the dialer doesnt pop up
Nov 16 19:24:27 <hhf423> does the current snapshot do that or is fiddling required?
Nov 16 19:24:41 * hhf423 ssh's into the phone and reboots
Nov 16 19:24:51 <borg_> my snapshot is acutally pretty old
Nov 16 19:24:57 <borg_> i update it with ipkg
Nov 16 19:25:15 <hhf423> so you have an older kernel?
Nov 16 19:25:19 <borg_> i updated the kernel recently because ipkg screwd it
Nov 16 19:25:23 <hhf423> ah
Nov 16 19:25:29 <borg_> no, kernel is newest
Nov 16 19:25:48 <hhf423> well, ipkg should keep the system current
Nov 16 19:26:04 <borg_> but i think ipkg should be able to update the kernel too, or am i wrong there?
Nov 16 19:26:05 * hhf423 stares at the "please wait" screen again
Nov 16 19:27:32 <hhf423> hmm, x does not come up
Nov 16 19:27:38 <borg_> :(
Nov 16 19:27:51 <hhf423> bizarre, that never happened before
Nov 16 19:28:08 <ar0x> do the qemu inside the SVN support GTA02's S3C2442 ?
Nov 16 19:28:26 <hhf423> don't know
Nov 16 19:29:00 <CM> hhf423: There's some problem with matchbox at the moment
Nov 16 19:29:49 <hhf423> CM, ah, how to fix?
Nov 16 19:30:04 <CM> At least there were some "work arounds" added to OE around 3h ago
Nov 16 19:30:14 <hhf423> doh
Nov 16 19:30:24 <CM> Not sure how to fix it, but the latest updates supposedly works
Nov 16 19:30:28 <CM> I haven't tried yet
Nov 16 19:30:46 <borg_> i think it doesnt
Nov 16 19:30:47 <hhf423> CM I just flashed the image from today from buildhost
Nov 16 19:30:50 <borg_> it doesnt compile so :)
Nov 16 19:30:54 <CM> borg_: Hehe
Nov 16 19:31:14 * CM tries a new compile
Nov 16 19:32:36 <borg_> i hand to remove matchbox-common from the CONFLICT variable in openmoko-today2-folders and openmoko-session2 to get it compiled
Nov 16 19:32:42 <borg_> s/hand/had
Nov 16 19:33:04 <borg_> but this breaks something else probably ;)
Nov 16 19:33:33 <CM> Heh, I got the classic svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Nov 16 19:33:50 <CM> berlios must have about 50% uptime or so..
Nov 16 19:34:22 <borg_> the thing is, that task-openmoko-ui depends on matchbox-common, but openmoko-today2-foders conflicts with matchbox-common
Nov 16 19:34:41 <borg_> dont now what is right, but both at the same time is not possible :)
Nov 16 19:34:49 <hhf423> hmm, let me try an image from yesterday
Nov 16 19:37:00 <CM> My build finished fine..
Nov 16 19:37:23 <borg_> CM: can you cat openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-today2-folders_svn.bb ?
Nov 16 19:37:35 <hhf423> CM is your build online somewhere?
Nov 16 19:37:35 <borg_> is there a  #RCONFLICTS_${PN} = "matchbox-common" in it?
Nov 16 19:38:16 <CM> borg_: It's not commented out: http://rafb.net/p/WVKM2924.html
Nov 16 19:38:31 <borg_> yes, i commented it out
Nov 16 19:39:03 <borg_> otherwise i get something like "task-openmoko-ui depends on matchbox-common but conflicts with openmoko-today2-foders"
Nov 16 19:39:10 <borg_> mh
Nov 16 19:39:26 <CM> Heh, now my Neo is unable to start X
Nov 16 19:39:34 <CM> After an ipkg update/upgrade
Nov 16 19:39:57 <hhf423> heh, brilliant
Nov 16 19:40:31 * hhf423 agrees that X is overrated
Nov 16 19:40:42 <hhf423> real programmers need no X
Nov 16 19:41:53 <CM> Does the screen power down when you're not in X?
Nov 16 19:42:11 <CM> Heh, can echo 0 into brightness maybe.. :P
Nov 16 19:42:15 <hhf423> no, shows angstrom "logo" and stuff
Nov 16 19:42:36 <CM> Yes, same here
Nov 16 19:43:05 <hhf423> boah
Nov 16 19:43:10 <hhf423> "power menu"
Nov 16 19:43:16 <borg_> :D
Nov 16 19:43:20 <borg_> nice, isnt it? :)
Nov 16 19:44:22 <hhf423> there is no restart, I am annoyed :-)
Nov 16 19:44:35 <CM> Same here.. Hmm..
Nov 16 19:44:50 <borg_> mh
Nov 16 19:44:52 <CM> Where's my Bullet Proof X for OpenMoko?
Nov 16 19:44:59 <CM> :P
Nov 16 19:45:06 <mjr> well
Nov 16 19:45:08 <hhf423> I want GTA02. 200MHz just do not cut it
Nov 16 19:45:20 <mjr> It's fb. I don't know how more bulletproof do you need...
Nov 16 19:45:40 <hhf423> CM, yes we need an X that always works and always comes back from the dead :-)
Nov 16 19:46:21 <mwester> Sync up and build again - it's supposed to be fixed.
Nov 16 19:46:40 <don> anyone got a information about release dates?
Nov 16 19:46:43 <hhf423> can someone build the fixed on and put it up online?
Nov 16 19:46:57 <hhf423> don, release dates of what?
Nov 16 19:47:05 <_buz> don: not really
Nov 16 19:47:35 <don> I am a little concerned the Website now says "he Consumer-ready hardware will be available around year's end, with Consumer-ready software to follow some time after that."
Nov 16 19:48:04 <don> so.... they will sell the phone without consumer ready software?
Nov 16 19:48:13 <borg_> i hope so
Nov 16 19:48:15 <mwester> don: that's been apparent for a very long time now
Nov 16 19:48:28 <borg_> i like to have it as soon as possible
Nov 16 19:48:31 <don> I'm new.  Sorry
Nov 16 19:48:37 <mwester> The software has been evolving at a pace that can best be described as glacial.
Nov 16 19:48:45 <hhf423> hahaha
Nov 16 19:48:59 <don> I assumed the consumer model would be a usable consumer phone.
Nov 16 19:49:10 <mwester> It seems that all resources have been committed to the Product That Is Not A Cell Phone and the GTA02 euromoko hardware
Nov 16 19:50:30 * mwester mutters to himself that even those who commit fixes and updates find their changes languishing and bit-rotting in ignored bugzilla entries.
Nov 16 19:50:32 <don> mwester: I'm confused. they pulled everyone off for a non cellphone product?
Nov 16 19:50:42 <mwester> Gotta pay the bill somehow.
Nov 16 19:51:05 <_buz> http://www.dash.net/ this supposedly
Nov 16 19:51:11 <mwester> I don't have the URL handy, but the product was finally announced (and the hardware was developed by the FIC team)
Nov 16 19:51:26 <don> Ummm would them releasing an OS cellphone pay the bills?
Nov 16 19:51:30 <mwester> It's actually a pretty cool little device - it has a GSM modem, but it's not a phone.
Nov 16 19:51:47 <_buz> its a totally broken formfactor if you ask me
Nov 16 19:52:02 <mwester> It's intended for an automobile - it didn't seem too bad to me.
Nov 16 19:52:21 <_buz> well, why the protrusion towards the back
Nov 16 19:52:32 <don> R U KIDDING? Why another GPS device?
Nov 16 19:52:43 <_buz> because you get paid for it
Nov 16 19:53:01 <don> I understand but come on. 
Nov 16 19:53:01 <mwester> That's what folks are buying for Christmas these years...
Nov 16 19:53:12 <CM> Yes, it sure is
Nov 16 19:53:13 <don> I would love to buy a new cellphone.
Nov 16 19:53:21 <_buz> yeah i'm somehow wondering if that was the best thing to do myself
Nov 16 19:53:35 <fgau> euromoko, nice
Nov 16 19:53:45 <mwester> I also was hoping for a GTA02 this year, but I'm going to have to settle for a Nokiia 800
Nov 16 19:53:57 <hhf423> no 810?
Nov 16 19:54:02 <cjb_ie> i was hoping for one as well, but i got a treo 680
Nov 16 19:54:09 <mwester> I'm too cheap for the 810.
Nov 16 19:54:10 <_buz> why cant nokia add gsm to the 810
Nov 16 19:54:32 <_buz> i need a new smartphone RSN
Nov 16 19:54:47 <_buz> looks like i'll have to deal with the crud that runs on HTC's otherwise nice hardware
Nov 16 19:54:47 * mwester thinks that the combination of the 810 + a simple GSM modem would be outstanding.
Nov 16 19:54:57 * _buz concurs
Nov 16 19:55:02 <hhf423> yeah
Nov 16 19:55:03 <don> I am going to have to go all out and get the iPhone.
Nov 16 19:55:31 <mwester> Pick your prison...  They're all closed in some way or another.
Nov 16 19:55:34 <jmichel> I don't get it: what's euromoko?
Nov 16 19:55:48 <_buz> or maybe i should get a crackberry, will have to use one sooner or later anyhow
Nov 16 19:55:52 <CM> jmichel: It's a gsm phone that doesn't have the 850Mhz band
Nov 16 19:56:09 <don> Since I'm in the states.... 
Nov 16 19:56:20 <don> Damn I hate vaporware 
Nov 16 19:56:37 <_buz> can the smedia chip atleast run duke nukem forever?
Nov 16 19:56:43 <mwester> If you're in the US, then you might find that the GTA02 as currently planned is a little light on coverage.
Nov 16 19:56:49 <thomasg> _buz: of course
Nov 16 19:56:58 <_buz> i assume it will come preinstalled
Nov 16 19:57:00 <thomasg> _buz: it comes pre-installed since it is full-gpl
Nov 16 19:57:05 <_buz> niiiice
Nov 16 19:57:29 <don> I understand missing dates but to cell your phone without software?
Nov 16 19:57:41 <don> cell=sell 
Nov 16 19:57:48 <don> one track mind
Nov 16 19:57:54 * CM tries a reflash of kernel and rootfs
Nov 16 19:58:06 <borg_> don: where is the problem? if they dont lie about that
Nov 16 19:58:12 <borg_> you dont have to buy it
Nov 16 19:58:16 <_buz> i'm beginning to think openmoko missed the window
Nov 16 19:58:28 <jmichel> CM: Will the GTA02 miss the 859mhz band ?
Nov 16 19:58:30 <don> I was looking forward to a consumer phone in December. 
Nov 16 19:58:51 <jmichel> CM: because I'm in canada and it is still used a lot
Nov 16 19:58:54 <borg_> yes, i too, but the software is simply not ready for a consumer product.
Nov 16 19:58:59 <hachi> AUGH
Nov 16 19:59:10 <hachi> twice now my moko phone has rebooted on its own
Nov 16 19:59:17 <don> I see this as a huge problem
Nov 16 19:59:21 <CM> hachi: You might have the same problem as ScaredyCat 
Nov 16 19:59:37 <CM> hachi: That it doesn't charge properly while plugged in and powered on
Nov 16 19:59:39 <borg_> don: then dont buy it
Nov 16 19:59:45 <don> borg: there is going to be competition. 
Nov 16 19:59:46 <borg_> there is no problem with ten
Nov 16 19:59:54 <hachi> no, it's charging fine
Nov 16 19:59:57 <hachi> it's fully charged
Nov 16 19:59:59 <borg_> don: i dont see any at the momment
Nov 16 20:00:12 <hachi> I have it sitting on a table and it will just suddenly reboot
Nov 16 20:00:13 <don> borg: I want this to succeed not Apple not Google. 
Nov 16 20:00:18 <borg_> it depends on what you whant to have
Nov 16 20:00:21 <_buz> borg_: it depends what you consider to be competition
Nov 16 20:00:33 <don> borg: if they beat it to market they will win
Nov 16 20:00:53 <_buz> yeah, open for the sake of open wont be good enough
Nov 16 20:01:01 <CM> jmichel: It's not a quad band phone, unfortunally :/
Nov 16 20:01:03 <borg_> who cares about marketshare?
Nov 16 20:01:04 <don> buz I agree
Nov 16 20:01:08 <borg_> i want an open phone
Nov 16 20:01:13 <_buz> borg_: anyone who wants to recoup costs
Nov 16 20:01:29 <SpeedEvil> Or anyone that wants OM/android/... to be a viable OS platform
Nov 16 20:01:46 <don> borg: if they don't have market share they can't make open devices. 
Nov 16 20:01:46 <_buz> exactly
Nov 16 20:02:17 <don> I have to go cry now.
Nov 16 20:02:18 <_buz> while i very much comment open-everything i'm doubting many will
Nov 16 20:02:29 <don> It doesn't matter
Nov 16 20:03:14 <_buz> if i can get root on an android phone, that is good enough for my purposes and i fear the same is true for 95% of even the geek population
Nov 16 20:03:18 <don> If the phone works well and allows you to circumvent cell company nickle and dime charges it will become successful.
Nov 16 20:03:36 <_buz> if that is your only concern, buy an open market phone
Nov 16 20:03:46 <_buz> nokia s60 phones work pretty well at what they do
Nov 16 20:03:48 <don> Most people will never look for or know what "root" is.
Nov 16 20:04:02 <_buz> it says there geek population
Nov 16 20:04:17 <don> I am a member of the geek population.
Nov 16 20:04:20 <don> I want root
Nov 16 20:04:33 <_buz> in some way, openwrt proves the point. people dont care about fully open drivers as long as the hardware is cheap
Nov 16 20:04:54 <don> But I know to be successful they will need more owners than our tiny demographic can provide. 
Nov 16 20:04:59 <_buz> exactly
Nov 16 20:05:09 <borg_> why?
Nov 16 20:05:23 <borg_> it gets forward
Nov 16 20:05:31 <borg_> i little bit slow
Nov 16 20:05:35 <_buz> its one year late
Nov 16 20:05:38 <borg_> but there is progress
Nov 16 20:05:43 <borg_> yes
Nov 16 20:05:49 <CM> I think the Eee PC is a good step on the way
Nov 16 20:05:50 <_buz> GTA02 in december 06 would have been perfect
Nov 16 20:05:50 <borg_> i agree
Nov 16 20:06:02 <don> By then we will have a more open iPhone and android will be available. 
Nov 16 20:06:09 * CM cheers
Nov 16 20:06:21 <CM> X is back..
Nov 16 20:06:22 <borg_> a more open iphone, haha
Nov 16 20:06:22 <_buz> has anyone used an eee ?
Nov 16 20:06:23 <borg_> ;)
Nov 16 20:06:33 <don> It will happen 
Nov 16 20:06:33 <thomasg> CM: imho the EeePC is too expensive and too big
Nov 16 20:06:36 <don> got to go 
Nov 16 20:06:38 <don> l8tr
Nov 16 20:06:41 <SpeedEvil> I'm astounded at how good my existing laptop is - even compared to the eee
Nov 16 20:06:50 <SpeedEvil> And it's 5 years oldish
Nov 16 20:06:51 <_buz> yeah the original 199$ point would have been perfect
Nov 16 20:06:54 <_buz> 399 not so much
Nov 16 20:07:09 <thomasg> _buz: yeah, 200$ for the 4G version would have been nice
Nov 16 20:07:09 <SpeedEvil> 1.1Kg, wifi (modded in) 8h battery life
Nov 16 20:07:10 <mjr> piffles, android phones will take a long while yet, nobody has any clue how open those will be in practice, and hell will freeze over before iphone will be significantly open
Nov 16 20:07:14 <CM> thomasg: What about that gPC or what they call that cheap pc?
Nov 16 20:07:32 <thomasg> CM it's a desktop-pc, and a nice device - but a bit expensive, too
Nov 16 20:07:40 <_buz> mjr: dont underestimate google, they may well release BEFORE the deadline
Nov 16 20:07:49 <CM> Hmm.. Seems to have sold out anyway though 
Nov 16 20:07:52 <borg_> http://robilad.livejournal.com/22312.html
Nov 16 20:07:55 <thomasg> I like the OLPC / XO device
Nov 16 20:08:01 <borg_> have you read the license of android?
Nov 16 20:08:09 <borg_> you may not extract the source code or create a derivative work of the SDK
Nov 16 20:08:24 <borg_> thats not what i would call free as in free speech
Nov 16 20:08:42 <SpeedEvil> That's a whole lot better than windows.
Nov 16 20:08:44 <SpeedEvil> But...
Nov 16 20:08:50 <_buz> yeah but the issue is: once android hardware is out, people will be running OM and qtopia on it
Nov 16 20:08:58 <SpeedEvil> If they can
Nov 16 20:09:03 <_buz> and openmoko needs to sell neos to make any cash
Nov 16 20:09:18 <SpeedEvil> you can lock down an OS phone so you cannot install any other OS (operating system) on it
Nov 16 20:09:28 <SpeedEvil> (the first OS was open source)
Nov 16 20:09:56 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  But it's like the difference between a vehicle with the hood welded shut, and one where the hood opens but everything inside is welded closed -- in the end, both Windows and Android are effectively closed.
Nov 16 20:10:14 <SpeedEvil> Well...
Nov 16 20:10:23 <SpeedEvil> To be fair, it depends.
Nov 16 20:10:24 <_buz> we cant really tell that at the current point in time
Nov 16 20:10:40 <borg_> but nevertheless
Nov 16 20:10:44 <borg_> if they make it free
Nov 16 20:10:48 <mwester> We can tell the direction, if not the final result.
Nov 16 20:10:48 <borg_> its of course great
Nov 16 20:10:49 <SpeedEvil> If android has a nice way to check in external code and these checkins actually happen promptly and reasonably.
Nov 16 20:10:59 <CM> Heh, the openmoko browser still crashes on wikipedia.com...
Nov 16 20:11:02 <_buz> or if you can get root on android
Nov 16 20:11:02 <borg_> we can port there jvm to openmoko then
Nov 16 20:11:11 <borg_> and run android applications
Nov 16 20:11:13 <SpeedEvil> and you can install and use apps that can access the full functionality of the phone, ...
Nov 16 20:11:23 <CM> borg_: dvm? ;)
Nov 16 20:11:31 <borg_> dvm?
Nov 16 20:11:37 <CM> Dalvik VM
Nov 16 20:11:38 <mwester> But it remains academic as long as the openmoko image can't function as either a basic PDA, a basic phone, or a basic GPS.
Nov 16 20:11:41 <CM> It's not java
Nov 16 20:11:48 <borg_> oh, jes
Nov 16 20:11:52 <borg_> something derived
Nov 16 20:11:55 <borg_> whatever ;)
Nov 16 20:11:57 <borg_> there vm
Nov 16 20:11:58 <borg_> :P
Nov 16 20:12:00 <mwester> "Openmoko is Open -- but it doesn't do anything useful!!"  <-- Not a good advertisement.
Nov 16 20:12:10 <_buz> mwester: much less any decent hardware that ships in volume
Nov 16 20:12:13 <SpeedEvil> (yet)
Nov 16 20:12:37 <mjr> one would expect the software focus of OM inc. to improve as 02 is finalized
Nov 16 20:12:41 <borg_> mwester: we are very close to a working phone in my opinion
Nov 16 20:13:00 <_buz> mjr: when GTA02 is done, GTA03 will have to be developed at the highest possible pace
Nov 16 20:13:04 <mjr> Indeed. I use it as my phone. It's not maximally reliable, though.
Nov 16 20:13:08 <mwester> So let's revolt.  It's time to fork the openmoko software so that we have an *OPEN* repository, and the community can actually contribute in a meaningful way.
Nov 16 20:13:23 <SpeedEvil> GTA02v? needs to rapidly come out - which is the variant with 850Mhz
Nov 16 20:13:25 <mwester> If we wait for Openmoko, we'll have NO hardware, and NO software eitehr.
Nov 16 20:13:27 <borg_> mjr: do you use dim only or suspend?
Nov 16 20:13:38 <mjr> no suspend
Nov 16 20:13:51 <borg_> ok
Nov 16 20:14:37 <_buz> if openmoko doesnt deliver the hardware, who else will
Nov 16 20:15:02 <borg_> ?
Nov 16 20:15:07 <mwester> _buz:  Nobody, unless there is software to make a community that will buy it.
Nov 16 20:15:10 <borg_> i am pretty sure they will deliver gta02
Nov 16 20:15:23 <_buz> borg_: yeah i guess they will just when is the question
Nov 16 20:15:31 <mwester> So it's time to make the software work, then someone will step up to make hardware.  Right now it's *ALL* vapor
Nov 16 20:15:34 <_buz> but after that, gta03 will need to be done very quickly
Nov 16 20:15:42 <_buz> and frankly, by now, 450$ for gta02 is overpriced
Nov 16 20:15:46 <borg_> mwester: calm down
Nov 16 20:15:56 <mwester> borg_:  ???
Nov 16 20:16:14 <borg_> whats your problem?
Nov 16 20:16:29 <mwester> borg_: Am I bothering you?
Nov 16 20:16:30 <borg_> you bought a developer device
Nov 16 20:16:40 <borg_> they never sold it as a consumer product
Nov 16 20:16:43 <CM> borg_: He's done some very well needed patches for gsmd and so on, and they're just stuck in bugzilla instead of added to OpenMoko
Nov 16 20:16:57 <borg_> ok, thats bad :)
Nov 16 20:16:58 <buz> borg_: they way things are going now, it will never be a consumer product
Nov 16 20:17:02 <buz> so he has a point
Nov 16 20:17:03 <mwester> borg_:  What are you blabbering about?  I'm trying to get this community to step up and develop software.
Nov 16 20:17:18 <mwester> borg_:  What have I said about developer devices and such?
Nov 16 20:17:25 <CM> mwester: I'm with you, and I get your point.
Nov 16 20:18:01 <CM> mwester: Hmm.. Koen is always running Ångström on his Neo. How big is the difference between OM and that?
Nov 16 20:19:21 <mwester> That's a good question.  OM is a derivitive (sp?) of Angstrom.  It would be interesting to try it and see.
Nov 16 20:19:30 <buz> is it true that HTC essentially is a sister company to FIC?
Nov 16 20:19:51 <woglinde> buz uhm
Nov 16 20:21:13 <borg_> mwester: i get the point, but i think it is not getting better if we run down the openmoko core team
Nov 16 20:21:32 <borg_> and i think it is not getting better if we split this community with a fork
Nov 16 20:21:54 <woglinde> borg???
Nov 16 20:21:57 <CoreDump> angstrom is not a "fork"...
Nov 16 20:22:04 <borg_> ?
Nov 16 20:22:05 <buz> woglinde: what?  i read that in several places
Nov 16 20:22:12 <woglinde> koen dont make application development
Nov 16 20:22:17 <woglinde> so no fork
Nov 16 20:22:27 <borg_> mwester spoke about a fork
Nov 16 20:22:32 <borg_> i dont mean angstrom
Nov 16 20:22:54 <woglinde> who us forking openmoko?
Nov 16 20:22:56 <woglinde> is
Nov 16 20:22:57 <borg_> 21:13 < mwester> So let's revolt.  It's time to fork the openmoko software so that we have an *OPEN* repository, and the community can actually contribute in a meaningful way.                                                                                               
Nov 16 20:23:09 <woglinde> hm
Nov 16 20:23:11 <woglinde> okay
Nov 16 20:23:12 <woglinde> sorry
Nov 16 20:23:23 <CoreDump> borg_: that can already be done via OM apps in angstrom
Nov 16 20:24:11 <buz> in a way, the community is already split
Nov 16 20:24:22 <buz> just think of the trolls using neo for their work
Nov 16 20:26:18 <woglinde> buz which trolls?
Nov 16 20:26:21 * CM bows to the best nick in the channel
Nov 16 20:26:32 <buz> woglinde: trolltech
Nov 16 20:26:36 <woglinde> buz haha
Nov 16 20:26:51 <buz> well they are commonly referred to as trolls in kde world ;)
Nov 16 20:27:01 <woglinde> I will now testing opera-mini on qemu on the qtopia-image
Nov 16 20:27:29 <buz> it gotten pretty darn good
Nov 16 20:27:34 <mwester> borg_:  I've waited quite long enough, and seen enough patches wither away and become lost - it's clear to me that the OpenMoko developers are moving too slowly, and have no good process for accepting community input to the core software.  This is a fact.
Nov 16 20:27:56 <mwester> borg_:  A fork is a perfectly rational suggestion when such a thing occurs, and serves the interests of all involved.
Nov 16 20:28:14 <borg_> mwester: mh
Nov 16 20:28:14 <mwester> borg_:  OpenMoko can continue with whatever it is they have planned at a pace that makes them comfortable...
Nov 16 20:28:40 <buz> but i still wonder who would supply hardware for such a project
Nov 16 20:28:48 <borg_> but there has to be somebody else who decides who gets write access to whatever then
Nov 16 20:28:50 <mwester> borg_:  and other in the community can develop and exeriment at thier pace.  And OM can pick what the wish from the other parallel projects
Nov 16 20:28:53 <buz> i'm not sure i believe build it and they will come
Nov 16 20:29:17 <buz> borg_: those issues are true for EVERY project
Nov 16 20:29:25 <buz> in general, the open source world seems to manage quite well
Nov 16 20:29:27 <borg_> yes
Nov 16 20:29:49 <borg_> but the complains are about that
Nov 16 20:30:05 <borg_> so i dont see the adantage of a fork in this case
Nov 16 20:30:16 <mwester> borg_:  Agreed, someone must decide.  But the problem is that OM have decided that a  very small number of relatively inaccessable people have access to the repos.  EG, when was the last time you spoke to the person in charge of gsmd on IRC?
Nov 16 20:30:56 <mwester> How about a technical conversation with the guy that owned the kernel and uboot repos at openmoko?  When was the last time he dropped by here to have a technical discussion?
Nov 16 20:31:26 <CM> I think mickeyl mentioned that..
Nov 16 20:31:28 <borg_> mwester: ok, i have to agree on that
Nov 16 20:31:33 <buz> might as well ask how many OM employees ever dropped by
Nov 16 20:31:46 <CM> Those .tw guys just don't know anything about "Open Source"
Nov 16 20:31:54 <mwester> Oh roh and michaelshiloh and mickey_away and XorA|gone drop by often.
Nov 16 20:32:12 <buz> yeah, still can count them on one hand i guess
Nov 16 20:32:13 <CM> And they're a bit afraid of hanging out in here because of their english
Nov 16 20:32:41 <buz> but they better learn it quickly, otherwise the project is doomed anyhow
Nov 16 20:32:47 <mwester> True.  But they speak engish far better than I speak taiwanese, so I'm happy to try to communicate in any case.
Nov 16 20:33:06 <CM> There's one of them that's been in here a few times
Nov 16 20:33:11 <CM> But he never said much
Nov 16 20:33:21 <buz> in general, the FOSS community is quite accomodating to language issues in my experience
Nov 16 20:33:30 <buz> as long as you arent behaving stupidly at the same time
Nov 16 20:33:43 <borg_> thats a really bad excuse, i have to look up every second word i write here :)
Nov 16 20:33:52 <mwester> Honestly I have wondered if there is a #openmoko-devel channel where all the folks contributing to the core software hang about...
Nov 16 20:34:08 <mwester> borg_:  Then you look things up very quickly and very well.
Nov 16 20:34:08 <buz> yeah i'd venture to guess that less than 1/3 really speak english natively
Nov 16 20:34:30 <buz> lots of german speaking people here, in any case
Nov 16 20:34:33 <CM> I wonder how many are in the -dev channel
Nov 16 20:34:46 <borg_> mwester: oh, thank you :)
Nov 16 20:35:06 <buz> (i'm german speaking myself, so maybe i'm biased)
Nov 16 20:35:22 <borg_> buz: you are not
Nov 16 20:35:34 <CM> Quite many who speak swedish here too, and finnish..
Nov 16 20:35:45 <buz> a LOT of europeans in any case
Nov 16 20:35:47 <borg_> there are somehow a lot of german and scandinavian people around
Nov 16 20:36:06 <IfChinsCouldKill> so we don't need 850 let's move on eh
Nov 16 20:36:17 <buz> for some reason, that seems true for most OS projects i've been involved  with
Nov 16 20:36:27 <CVirus> lots of Scandinavians == lots of metal heads :-p
Nov 16 20:36:31 <mwester> Anyway, I must run off for a while.  I've been wondering what would be the reaction to the suggestion of an alternate repository for core software, and I see that it's not something most folks are too interested in right now.  :)
Nov 16 20:36:42 * buz headbangs 
Nov 16 20:37:08 <buz> that not what i read, at all
Nov 16 20:37:35 * CVirus is corpse painting his face :-p
Nov 16 20:37:49 <borg_> mwester: perhaps you are right
Nov 16 20:38:07 <borg_> i didnt know that they dont apply patches
Nov 16 20:38:18 <buz> maybe you should suggest it on the ml
Nov 16 20:38:24 <buz> might kick OM into action if nothing else
Nov 16 20:39:09 <dinamich> Anybody knows why Harald Welte left the core team, he spoke about "internal friction" on his blog...
Nov 16 20:39:58 <CVirus> Is there an IDE that can do code completion for PyGTK code ?
Nov 16 20:39:59 <LarstiQ> mwester: gsmd is in git already
Nov 16 20:40:12 <LarstiQ> CVirus: vim?
Nov 16 20:40:47 <CVirus> LarstiQ: other recommendations ?
Nov 16 20:41:26 <LarstiQ> CVirus: pida
Nov 16 20:41:53 <CVirus> LarstiQ: thanks
Nov 16 20:42:00 <LarstiQ> np
Nov 16 21:44:10 <ortalo> hi
Nov 16 21:44:16 <borg_> hi
Nov 16 21:45:17 <ortalo> trying to build with mokomakefile on a fresh machine, but tells me svn.berlios.de is refusing connections. any hint ?
Nov 16 21:45:58 <borg_> mh
Nov 16 21:46:03 <borg_> wait some minutes and try again :)
Nov 16 21:46:42 <borg_> svn.berlios.de is online for me at the moment
Nov 16 21:47:17 <ortalo> i can ping it, but svn co does not work
Nov 16 21:47:33 <borg_> oh
Nov 16 21:47:56 <borg_> thats weired
Nov 16 21:49:06 <borg_> same for me
Nov 16 21:49:17 <borg_> worked 2 hours ago
Nov 16 21:50:11 <ortalo> busy site probably
Nov 16 21:50:31 <ortalo> isn't it possible to use the bitbake coming from the distribution (i am on Ubuntu)?
Nov 16 21:50:49 <borg_> it is
Nov 16 21:51:03 <borg_> i use the ubuntu bitbake
Nov 16 21:52:07 <ortalo> how do you make mokomakefile use this one instead of trying to build its own from berlios svn?
Nov 16 21:54:49 <ortalo> hmm, that's "touch stamps/bitbake" ... :-)
Nov 16 21:58:32 <borg_> mh
Nov 16 21:58:53 <borg_> i think earlier versions of the mokomakefile didnt force this build of the berlios bitbake
Nov 16 21:59:14 <borg_> i think i am using the selfbuild one then too now
Nov 16 21:59:20 <borg_> without noticing it :)
Nov 16 22:35:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1012 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 16 22:35:01 <cdbot2> * * moko-gtk-theme lacks UI elements for openmoko-mediaplayer2
Nov 16 22:35:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1012
Nov 16 22:50:20 <dcordes> hi
Nov 16 22:50:39 * Stephmw grins
Nov 16 22:51:47 <dcordes> starox: Do I know you from some different embedded channel? ^^
Nov 16 22:51:57 <dcordes> Stephmw: sorry
Nov 16 22:52:28 <Stephmw> dcordes: could be, could be
Nov 16 22:52:41 <Stephmw> dcordes: personally, I think you're just following me :D
Nov 16 22:54:22 <abraxa_> Is the person who filed bug 1012 here?
Nov 16 22:54:58 <mwester> !ombug 1012
Nov 16 22:54:59 <cdbot2> * * Bug 1012, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown
Nov 16 22:55:00 <cdbot2> * * cwixon(AT)usa.net: moko-gtk-theme lacks UI elements for openmoko-mediaplayer2
Nov 16 22:55:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1012
Nov 16 22:55:33 * mwester now notes that he could have saved bandwidth by just scrolling up a bit in the log.  sorry.
Nov 16 22:55:51 <CoreDump> no worries
Nov 16 22:56:02 <abraxa_> ;)
Nov 16 22:56:26 <CoreDump> it's not like the channel is busy at this time ;)
Nov 16 22:56:57 <mwester> Still, one never knows how many folks might be paying by the kb, on GPRS or something.  :)
Nov 16 22:58:12 <ewon> heh
Nov 16 22:58:59 <zash> yay for gprs
Nov 16 22:59:38 <CoreDump> mwester: true, I didn't think of that
Nov 16 23:10:40 * CM yawns
Nov 16 23:30:29 <quicksand> abraxa_: ping
Nov 16 23:30:38 <abraxa_> I'm here
Nov 16 23:30:50 <quicksand> You were asking about bug 1012?
Nov 16 23:31:10 <abraxa_> Yeah. Did you file it?
Nov 16 23:31:15 <quicksand> Yep.
Nov 16 23:31:20 <abraxa_> Ahh okay
Nov 16 23:31:47 * quicksand submits to discipline
Nov 16 23:31:57 <abraxa_> Well, that theme isn't supposed to be used yet - you might have noticed the distinct lack of styles :)
Nov 16 23:32:12 <quicksand> Yes, true, but that's why we track these things, right?
Nov 16 23:32:32 <abraxa_> So your bug report is correct, though it merely means that the new theme just needs some more time to develop
Nov 16 23:33:22 <abraxa_> e.g. at the moment I'm discussing with Thomas (the creator of the OpenMoko GTK engine) in what direction the media player theme could/should go
Nov 16 23:33:38 <quicksand> Fair enough.  Most of the openmoko apps don't seem to care much (a missing icon or two, at the most), but the mediaplayer becomes all but inaccessible.
Nov 16 23:33:41 <abraxa_> Just as a heads up, cause it'll take a bit until you see action taken on that bug :)
Nov 16 23:33:54 <quicksand> The buttons resize down to pinpoint-size.  ;-)
Nov 16 23:34:09 <abraxa_> Yeah, that's because it doesn't make use of the standard widgets
Nov 16 23:34:24 <abraxa_> It would just look too bland ;)
Nov 16 23:34:34 <quicksand> No worries.  You're doing a great job on the mediaplayer.  I can wait.  But at least now I can play around with the new theme engine and listen to music too.
Nov 16 23:34:51 <abraxa_> Yup, thanks
Nov 16 23:35:02 <abraxa_> And I'm glad there are people who give feedback ;)
Nov 16 23:35:40 <quicksand> A few days ago I submitted like five bugs in a row.  They're not earth-shattering, but I think it's useful to do, at least.
Nov 16 23:37:21 <abraxa_> Definitely!
Nov 16 23:37:39 <quicksand> (Plus I wanted #1000, which I got.  Heh.)
Nov 17 00:37:18 <Psi> is sound (for incoming call) supposed to work on qtopia yet?  i get sound for calls but only vibrator on ring?
Nov 17 00:39:28 <Psi> nevermind found my answer :)
Nov 17 01:07:25 <hachi> matchbox-common is conflicting with openmoko-session2 and openmoko-today2-folders now
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 02:59:57 2007