**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 02:59:57 2007 Nov 17 04:25:17 hey guys..... Just curious but I was reading on how openmoko / neo1973 is going to help limit roaming charges. Mind me asking how ?? Nov 17 04:25:52 *sigh* .. who tells you that? you should ask him Nov 17 04:48:11 Mine limits roaming charges. (hehehe!) Nov 17 04:55:50 mwester, How does that work. I don't understand how all these providers are getting people with roaming charges and that openMoko won't when you're using the same provider. Nov 17 05:01:56 mike3_: it limits roaming charges by not actually being able to make or receive phone calls. :-) Nov 17 05:02:36 :) Nov 17 05:03:02 mike3_: it will function like any other phone, and will be subject to roaming charges as any other device. Nov 17 05:03:03 Seriously, though, there's no network lock-in with the Neo1973. If you're traveling to a foreign country, just pick up a cheap prepaid sim there. You can't do that with (e.g.) the iPhone by default. Nov 17 05:03:35 quicksand, Yah I was going to say, by default. Once the iphone is hacked you have those options. Nov 17 05:03:59 quicksand, I like the idea of expansion. Nov 17 05:04:03 Right. But that's about the only way it "limits roaming charges" that I can think of. Nov 17 05:04:20 Unlike the iphone weather it's cracked or not, you have to buy the next new iphone for the updated OS. Nov 17 05:04:22 Which sucks. Nov 17 05:04:39 See, e.g., Windows Mobile. Nov 17 05:12:26 quicksand, what do you mean? Nov 17 05:22:04 If you have a Windows Mobile 5 phone or PDA, you are at the manufacturer's mercy as to whether you get a WM6 upgrade or not. There's no money in it, so usually not. Nov 17 05:24:59 Any gtk+ people here? I'm looking for a knob widget. A round draggable knob with a pointer on it. Nov 17 06:21:01 * * OM Bug 1013 has been created by kiang(AT)osobiz.com Nov 17 06:21:02 * * Little issue Nov 17 06:21:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1013 Nov 17 06:23:20 It's said that the first devices to come with android will come in the midle of 2008. But am I correct that the Neo1973 is the first device that can run android? Since it's linux.. Nov 17 06:23:40 Just like the neto1973 can run qtec now Nov 17 06:25:19 is buildhost.openmoko.org dead? Nov 17 06:25:40 * chihchun stay in openmoko's HQ, but can not access to the host Nov 17 06:25:42 :-/ Nov 17 06:26:17 somebody fix the server plz :p Nov 17 06:26:21 Just thinking that it could be a way to get openmoko into the media. Not only does it run openmoko and is the first open mobile, it can also run the google android os Nov 17 06:26:40 But as I'm being ignored, I'll shut it Nov 17 06:27:49 humm.. Nov 17 06:28:08 ramvi: I think the same thing as you Nov 17 06:28:23 Hello openmoko Nov 17 06:28:39 ramvi: but both openmoko and android are platforms Nov 17 06:28:53 ramvi: they might be conflicted Nov 17 06:28:55 Thanks chihchun :) Nov 17 06:29:22 Hmm, in the same way as ubuntu and suse I guess. Only a good thing Nov 17 06:29:26 ramvi: but I guess it's not that hard to port the android's jvm on neo1973 Nov 17 06:30:04 That would make the neo1973 hot as hell. Only device in the world that runs android. half a year before devices are being released. Nov 17 06:31:08 haha, it will Nov 17 06:31:16 I believe so Nov 17 06:32:10 Openmoko doesnt have dalvik java, does it? Just an installation of dalvik on openmoko would make it run all applications made by developers for the google developers competition Nov 17 06:32:26 Mmm, I'm looking forward to december sooo much Nov 17 06:32:26 humm.... Nov 17 06:32:44 what's the jvm on the neo1973 now? Nov 17 06:32:56 java je? Nov 17 06:33:06 I mean in the new OM2007.2 Nov 17 06:33:19 I dont know.. Nov 17 06:33:23 I can not access to buildhost, and also don't want to build the whole image by myself Nov 17 06:33:31 let me check with the developers Nov 17 06:37:22 well, if we can have com.google.android.* classes and interfaces document Nov 17 06:37:27 maybe we can use different jvm Nov 17 06:40:24 Hmm, much of the code wont be released untill spring 08 :/ Nov 17 06:41:53 :-/ Nov 17 06:50:52 http://www.pastebin.ca/778042 - Is this a compiler bug, or is there some undefined behaviour in there? Nov 17 06:55:25 hm.. buildhost is down indeed.. strange Nov 17 06:55:57 we had some issues with that machine lately, gismo will take care of that Nov 17 06:58:54 anyone here ever used incredibuild? Nov 17 06:58:58 it rocks my face off Nov 17 07:00:20 ewon no. i dont use microsoft compilers for a long time now and that solved all my problems since Nov 17 07:02:50 heh :) Nov 17 07:05:02 roh: Do you know if OpenMoko will keep the GTA01 in stock until the GTA02 launches, or is there a chance it could sell out again? Nov 17 07:06:17 dunno. to be fair i see no real reason for keeping gta01 in production then.. Nov 17 07:07:37 mmontour or do you see a reason i do not know about yet? Nov 17 07:09:56 If the GTA02 ships soon it doesn't matter. If not, I'm wondering if people will still be able to get GTA01's Nov 17 07:10:33 I'm giving a presentation to my local LUG about OpenMoko, and I don't want to tell people "you can buy GTA01 now" if that won't be the case... Nov 17 07:12:20 mmontour well. we are out of orange ones, but i think there are enough black ones in stock Nov 17 07:12:58 OK, thanks. Nov 17 07:13:22 * mwester wants to know who bought all the orange ones! Nov 17 07:13:29 :D Nov 17 07:22:25 anyone plan on using the december edition as an everyday phone? Nov 17 07:22:45 yes me Nov 17 07:23:14 think it will stand? battery-wise?... Nov 17 07:23:29 :( Nov 17 07:23:58 I urgently need a phone change, but don't want the iphone, i want the neo, but reading blogs i'm not sure is still ready for everyday use Nov 17 07:24:18 you may be right Nov 17 07:24:44 I don't think the december edition will be available in december... Nov 17 07:24:51 i'm more worried about the battery .. :S, cause glitches will be fixed with time Nov 17 07:25:04 really?.. Nov 17 07:25:07 november? Nov 17 07:25:09 haha Nov 17 07:25:14 yes the battery issu is :x Nov 17 07:25:46 I got my secon neo yesterday Nov 17 07:25:55 this time WITH the ugly debug board Nov 17 07:26:14 cos my first one seems to be unrecoverbly bricked Nov 17 07:26:39 and I asked them to deliver the NEW edition Nov 17 07:26:59 but it seems not to be available... Nov 17 07:27:14 but now I have 3 batteries ;( Nov 17 07:28:22 and how long does the battery last? Nov 17 07:28:27 for you Nov 17 07:29:29 the "december" edition is suposed to come with higher power battery, but also brings wifi to drain it all away Nov 17 07:29:56 yes wifi would be GREAT Nov 17 07:30:11 don't know how long the new batteries last Nov 17 07:30:32 I gave them torpor to unbrick our phones ;-) Nov 17 07:31:55 but an educated guess for you on the new phone will be more than 2 days standby time? maybe 4-6hours talk? Nov 17 07:32:17 or less much lesS>?:S Nov 17 07:34:49 I guess the answer is: NO Nov 17 07:34:54 :x Nov 17 07:35:51 Speaking of stand by was redefined by openmoko GTA01 Nov 17 07:36:03 no stand by at all Nov 17 07:36:10 just remove the battery Nov 17 07:36:22 every time you dn't need the mobile Nov 17 07:36:28 ;) Nov 17 07:44:07 moprilo: if the phone only has 2 day standby i dont think it will do to well to anyone but nerds Nov 17 07:48:55 but its a nerds phone for now Nov 17 07:49:43 maybe i have a misconception, what i meant is .. would it hold up for 2 days.. Nov 17 07:50:05 i have a blackberry and it holds up for 3 days tops Nov 17 07:50:51 moprilo i think when all powersaving mechanisms are implemented in software we will archieve 2 ord 3 days of regular use. Nov 17 07:51:11 great.. that's what i wanted to hear Nov 17 07:51:14 the app-cpu would stay in suspend to ram most of the time and only wake up from time to time Nov 17 07:51:14 is buildhost down? Nov 17 07:51:21 I can't route to it Nov 17 07:51:43 hachi yes. and since its saturday i let gismo sleep rather than to ring him out at 4am ;) Nov 17 07:51:52 that's fine Nov 17 07:51:56 I just wanted to know if it was me Nov 17 07:52:20 moprilo i cannot promise that times.. its just a educated guess from a hardware hackers point of view Nov 17 07:52:32 is there a status system for this sort of stuff? Nov 17 07:52:38 so I can look, rather than ask? Nov 17 07:52:54 depends mostly of how often you klick around on it (waking it up) and how low we get the gsm in power-consumption Nov 17 07:53:41 hachi: nothin public afaik. i could ask gismo if he wants to make a readonly copy of his monitoring visible for the public if there really is interrest in such stuff Nov 17 07:53:55 oh, I mean a general status system Nov 17 07:54:14 like... earlier I had install conflicts with matchbox and something else Nov 17 07:54:33 and the other night the moko makefile was fetching an unavailable version of sqlite Nov 17 07:54:39 you know, known issues Nov 17 07:57:32 roh: i got up for work at 4am this morning :P Nov 17 07:57:50 ah.. such stuff.. no.. besides the wiki there is no place.. (and the bugtracker) Nov 17 07:58:09 hello Nov 17 07:58:11 if you have something you can reproduce, put it in bugzilla, so we don't loose track Nov 17 07:58:27 my phone flashes when I tell it to shut down :) Nov 17 08:01:10 buildhost is down is down Nov 17 08:01:12 * chihchun annoying Nov 17 08:02:49 actually, that's my main issue that I can't quite figure out how to debug Nov 17 08:03:23 I don't see a way for me to debug a hardware issue like that Nov 17 08:03:53 but lack of documentation of this bug makes me think that I'm the only one with a phone that flashes after shutdown Nov 17 08:04:15 hachi flashes? Nov 17 08:04:30 the screen powers on for an instant, white Nov 17 08:04:33 then powers off again Nov 17 08:04:39 repeat ad infinitum Nov 17 08:05:11 it repeats? thats weird. all cables pulled out? Nov 17 08:05:21 well, all external ones yes Nov 17 08:05:30 if I remove the battery and replace it it stays off Nov 17 08:05:34 what color is your pcb? did you regulary order it? Nov 17 08:05:45 I... uhh, hold on Nov 17 08:05:55 I didn't order it Nov 17 08:06:39 friend of mine got it free, couldn't get it to work decently... I took it and started nurturing it Nov 17 08:06:54 in fact, it's doing it right now and I didn't even notice Nov 17 08:07:03 because if you got an old P0 series device (gta01bv3) or a red pcb seried developer device (gta01bv4) from taipeh.. then it could be you still have Q1001 placed and youre hitting an old bug thus Nov 17 08:07:34 red pcb, GTA01B_V4 Nov 17 08:07:47 uuuhm.. ok.. Nov 17 08:07:59 taiwan Nov 17 08:08:00 then you probably hit that bug Nov 17 08:08:11 it's a hardware issue? Nov 17 08:08:28 kind of. its also relatively complicated and took some time to find out whats happeing Nov 17 08:08:53 we resolved it by removing one transistor in the final device Nov 17 08:08:55 I have SMD equipment, but no knowledge of the internals of this device Nov 17 08:09:02 ahh Nov 17 08:09:13 does the PCB have markers for this transistor? Nov 17 08:09:42 dunno. but i can pinpont the location. its really ugly to remove because its inside the gsm shielding case Nov 17 08:10:03 augh... bleh Nov 17 08:10:13 is the backside of the gsm sheilding open? I doubt it Nov 17 08:10:28 full solder line around the perimiter? Nov 17 08:10:36 no need ot answer, I'll have it open in 2 minutes here Nov 17 08:10:44 there are 2 types of shielding been used. one that can be removed when you know what you are doing and one thats soldered on Nov 17 08:13:15 that bluetooth antenna is an interesting design Nov 17 08:13:32 ;) Nov 17 08:13:40 torpor: are you there? Nov 17 08:14:21 roh Nov 17 08:14:30 the shield that can be removed Nov 17 08:14:35 is it a pressure fit? Nov 17 08:14:42 I believe mine is Nov 17 08:15:25 hachi when you see small clips at the border, yes. just be careful not to bend the whole thong too much and not damage the pcb with the screwdriver Nov 17 08:16:18 expensive mistake if I break it... I'll have to buy another one Nov 17 08:16:20 :) Nov 17 08:16:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_bottom.jpg is a picture of the removable shield Nov 17 08:16:46 on the right side is the gsm Nov 17 08:17:20 thats... not resolving Nov 17 08:17:36 I swear I just had the wiki open not 10 minutes ago Nov 17 08:17:45 oh wait, connection isn't happening Nov 17 08:17:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/e/ef/Gta01b_v4_front.jpg is a picture with removed shieldings Nov 17 08:19:39 there are 2 transistors in the upper right corner of the gsm on the last picture. inside the shielding, 'below' the fpc connector to the display Nov 17 08:20:04 the one more in the corner is Q1001 Nov 17 08:20:33 which needs to go. please do this only if youre 100% sure that you have the experience in soldering such small stuff Nov 17 08:21:16 I'm debating it Nov 17 08:22:17 if I may ask something else as well Nov 17 08:22:40 is this hardware designed to handle power supply via usb without a battery? Nov 17 08:23:04 because I accidentally did that once, for a few seconds... and I could hear what I would usually call 'capacitor whine' from the device Nov 17 08:24:25 hachi http://people.openmoko.org/roh/Gta01b_v4_front_Q1001.jpg Nov 17 08:24:37 hachi its not designed to run without a battery Nov 17 08:25:04 i dunno really what then happens.. probably the pmu cannot work properly and it stays off Nov 17 08:25:26 i painted you a nice green circle around Q1001 Nov 17 08:26:42 you're awesome Nov 17 08:27:22 wel.. even if i cannot give out schematics or gerber, i can still look at it and tell some things ;) Nov 17 08:30:21 is there an image of the fixed version as well? Nov 17 08:30:34 or is the layout different? Nov 17 08:30:51 fixed? well. we just have green instead of red pcbs and did not place the transistor Nov 17 08:30:58 the layout is still the same Nov 17 08:31:31 thats why both are called gta01bv4 .. we did not expect to have this devices traveling too far Nov 17 08:31:49 green means its from MP Nov 17 08:31:54 MP? Nov 17 08:32:05 mass production, made in china Nov 17 08:32:20 the red ones were done in taiwan, as a small testseries Nov 17 08:33:07 how did this one end up with you? may i ask where youre located? Nov 17 08:35:02 I'm in San Francisco Nov 17 08:35:11 I got it from a man named David Recordon Nov 17 08:35:17 it's not really mine Nov 17 08:35:27 he's loaning it to me, since I haven't purchased my own Nov 17 08:35:37 i see Nov 17 08:36:13 I do not know how he got it Nov 17 08:36:23 david recordon. hacker. scuba diver. Nov 17 08:36:26 but... it has a serial number if you want to look that up :) Nov 17 08:36:40 yeah, I've gone diving with him Nov 17 08:36:45 I also work with him Nov 17 08:37:06 :) Nov 17 08:37:06 not neccessary.. i did not want to track it down.. just personal interrest Nov 17 08:37:16 gi-el, you know him? Nov 17 08:37:52 hachi: no, but google does :P Nov 17 08:37:56 ahh Nov 17 08:38:09 *g* Nov 17 08:38:20 I need safety glasses to get this bloody sheilding off, it keeps snapping back shut on its own Nov 17 08:42:31 do you know what type of solder the red boards have? Nov 17 08:43:12 GPS antenna has silver solder I think... claims ROHS Nov 17 08:44:17 uh.. no clue. Nov 17 08:44:37 ive only regular old solder and not had a problem so far Nov 17 08:44:56 morning folks Nov 17 08:45:03 w00t! i got a new gta01!! Nov 17 08:45:09 back to coding for me. and a new debug board too! Nov 17 08:45:17 so heres' for a weekend of hacking adventure. Nov 17 08:45:21 but i also do not have real smd stuff.. just some very fine pliers and some experience with weller soldering irons Nov 17 08:45:33 torpor nice.. that was fast Nov 17 08:45:50 yeah, we placed the order on tuesday and it arrived yesterday (Friday) so its a pretty good turnaround. Nov 17 08:46:10 can I just lift the emitter and get the same effect? or do I need to remove at least two of the legs? Nov 17 08:46:16 i'm going to try to RMA the busted ones if we can't get them working - it really seems to me that there's something else wrong with the phone i can't recover. Nov 17 08:46:50 I'm just seeing that there's no clearance near the shield wall there Nov 17 08:47:05 horvatj73: i'm here now.. great that you got us the spare gta01! Nov 17 08:47:05 hachi its an open collector driver, so removing it completely is probably best. atleast thats what our rework crew did Nov 17 08:47:05 wondering if I can get away with just lifting the one leg I can get at Nov 17 08:47:17 dang, ok Nov 17 08:48:38 anyone know what the status with javascript-browsing capabilities is on the current openmoko front? Nov 17 08:50:24 hachi hachi lifting pin2 should help.. but i dunno which one that is on that package Nov 17 08:51:07 horvatj73: i'm here man .. just got up .. had a latenight hacksession with the new phone, its working fine. haven't tried the debug board but i will do that this morning. Nov 17 08:51:42 yeah man! Nov 17 08:52:03 its really great that you got us this spare pkg man, i must say. i hope we can get all our phones fixed now! Nov 17 08:52:21 then we can have maybe a good couple of openmoko@metalab sessions in the next few weeks eh? Nov 17 08:52:43 roh: the worst part of this is... I could just clip it off... but I really badly need a way out in case this breaks the phone worse :\ Nov 17 08:52:59 hachi: what are you doing? Nov 17 08:53:21 trying to make my phone not flash flash flash flash flash when I tell it to power off :) Nov 17 08:53:32 the screen flashes? Nov 17 08:53:36 yup Nov 17 08:54:13 torpor: what about meeting eachother at metalab this afternoon? Nov 17 08:54:43 torpor: I have a red board... which seems to mean I landed a phone that wasn't supposed to hit the public :) Nov 17 08:55:36 hachi i see.. well.. everybody else does not have this transistor at all, so i would see no harm Nov 17 08:56:58 horvatj73: i have to check with the wife but its possible. okay if i call you after lunch? i've got some family stuff to do this morning as well, so i have to juggle it a bit. Nov 17 08:57:08 hachi: make sure its not a gta02! :) Nov 17 08:57:39 torpor: family stuff... me too... Nov 17 08:57:44 I has stereo speakers... not a 02 :) Nov 17 08:57:55 .oO(there the pcb would be bluee) Nov 17 08:58:36 well... that certainly gives us a clue about production status :) Nov 17 08:58:38 torpor: just give me a call whenever it is okay for you ;-) Nov 17 09:00:32 horvatj73: i will call around 1pm, after lunch.. gotta make sure i stay politically sensible with all this hacking, you know! but for sure we should have a metalab hack session this weekend .. Nov 17 09:01:23 torpor: no problem, maybe I could try out the debug board with my phone today? Nov 17 09:04:20 for sure. Nov 17 09:04:49 horvatj73: i'm going to set up the debug board in a minute and see if i can debrick my old phone .. stay tuned. Nov 17 09:05:32 torpor: :P Nov 17 09:08:59 roh, here I go... got the shield cleared out of the way for the moment Nov 17 09:09:18 here's hoping you aren't pulling my leg :) Nov 17 09:09:46 is buildhost down? Nov 17 09:11:51 torpor japp Nov 17 09:13:39 horvatj73: okay i'm going to take my family for a little walk in the next hour, and then after that - around 1 or 2pm, i will head to metalab for the afternoon so lets have a hack session there today .. i'll call you when i'm on my way there .. Nov 17 09:13:42 hm.. these kids.. i just wish we had such marketing-guys and a supportteam to handle the flood after Nov 17 09:13:50 roh: what kids? Nov 17 09:14:30 torpor masturbating on vaporware as if it was the best and gratest since the invention of pr0n ;) Nov 17 09:14:53 roh: right. i guess you're talking about the list.. Nov 17 09:15:08 me, personally, i'm sick of android. show it to me on a running phone and then we can talk. until then, meh. Nov 17 09:15:33 still puzzles me.. i took a quick lock at it, saw no real content besides press fud and a date, well.. on 12th i downloaded the tarballs and took a look.. and now i know there is nothing coming and no danger for us in the next 12month Nov 17 09:16:01 the thing is that google recognizes that the phone is the next 'desktop' .. thats exciting in and of itself Nov 17 09:16:22 and if openmoko can get past these bootstrap wrinkles, it can really be in a good position within a month or two, to get some great stuff done. Nov 17 09:16:27 even then.. its java. i 've had enough of this java-bullshit on embedded. i can waste my batterytime much more efficiently with homegrown c-code Nov 17 09:16:42 i'm already planning on targetting openmoko as a platform exclusively for the next 3 months, on the basis of the hardware in front of me. Nov 17 09:16:54 if i can get a gta02 i'll be even more happy to code for it exclusively .. Nov 17 09:17:23 yeah, java is just for people who are too lazy to learn how easy it is to cross-compile .. ;) Nov 17 09:17:34 what i hope is that google pushes some vendors.. gives the whole specs must be free more drive... i do not care about their platform much. it gives me no freedom to do what I want. its a platform for vendors and carriers, not for users Nov 17 09:18:50 i don't think much of google as a hardware/software company, personally. surely they are a server-farm company. Nov 17 09:18:50 and the drivers ive seen are mostly just wrappers for nonfree libs in userspaceö. meaning the 3d-kerneldriver is only a stub mapping the registers Nov 17 09:19:15 roh: there's no need for google to do all that, other than that they are anti-linux in some ways, or at least anti-distro. Nov 17 09:19:22 so there is not even hw-documentation or usable gpl drivers coming out of this, just junk as we know it from too many examples... Nov 17 09:19:42 (please note that all this is my personal opinion, not anythin i say as an openmoko employee) Nov 17 09:19:56 the distro wars are the real issue with the google release. people are FUD'ifying the reality of how easy it is to just fork and build your own distro for the embedded space. in fact its as easy - or even easier (because of hardware logistics) - than it is to build a distro for a normal PC .. Nov 17 09:20:41 distros are the smallest problem in all of this. no kernelsource that gives you hw-abstraction is the problem. Nov 17 09:21:02 they just abuse it. they even use a libc unter bsd license Nov 17 09:22:08 guess whyß they do not want free for users or hackers. they want more marketshare for their platform within all the companies that do not have anything to sell on their own. se, nokia and co, they are are not part of this.. guess why. Nov 17 09:22:23 but thats enough ranting i think ;) please remember my note Nov 17 09:23:45 I dunno " torpor masturbating on vaporware " ..... I'm not sure I want to remember that! Nov 17 09:24:10 torpor: okay I could be there at let's say 2 or 3 p.m. Nov 17 09:28:23 ScaredyCat *g* Nov 17 09:28:43 something completely offtopic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEpZEFeN7Yc Nov 17 09:28:59 hey roh Nov 17 09:29:00 for our german speaking people... some nice music which fits the current politics Nov 17 09:29:08 what do you think the chances are that this worked? Nov 17 09:29:11 90%? Nov 17 09:29:22 I'm about to power it on :) Nov 17 09:29:47 hachi ive got no clue. but it should just do Nov 17 09:30:35 on Nov 17 09:31:09 booting Nov 17 09:31:13 no crash Nov 17 09:31:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 <- for all people here Nov 17 09:31:26 roh: they got überwacht from the bka after they made the song "11. september", they noticed it and made then this song "hallo verfassungsschutz" Nov 17 09:31:29 thats nuts :) Nov 17 09:31:35 at least that is what the fud from fefe says ;) Nov 17 09:31:41 is qemu now compiling on ubuntu Nov 17 09:31:52 it's up, halting now Nov 17 09:32:01 borg_ i know. i know fefe and some guys who probably are under surveilance too. Nov 17 09:32:28 roh, you rule Nov 17 09:32:33 it doesn't do it anymore Nov 17 09:32:34 eventually i should greet them from time to time like the gdr citicens did in phonecalls Nov 17 09:32:42 :) Nov 17 09:32:44 let's see if I can hop on GSM now Nov 17 09:32:54 hachi *g* nice. Nov 17 09:35:59 now, can you tell me what I need to do to turn this into a GTA02 ? ;) Nov 17 09:36:30 heh Nov 17 09:36:34 don't mention the war Nov 17 09:36:57 I am very much kidding Nov 17 09:37:31 roh here just told me what transistor to remove to make my phone not stay on when I ask it to shut down :) Nov 17 09:41:20 hachi, how come it stayed on? Nov 17 09:41:43 Psi ge got some preseries device Nov 17 09:41:57 ah Nov 17 09:42:22 I'm actively doing stuff with it though... not making apps yet Nov 17 09:42:32 seeing what I can do with the underlying system though Nov 17 09:43:10 * roh rolls some cigarette Nov 17 09:43:12 I need to dream up an app for myself Nov 17 09:45:08 * roh dreams of working sync since quite some time.. but well see when that happens Nov 17 09:49:10 ScaredyCat: "Quite frankly Google can take their $10 Million bribe and ... well you can probably guess where I'm going to suggest they put it." Nov 17 09:49:13 your bank account? Nov 17 09:49:25 mine? I'd accept it.... Nov 17 09:51:01 hell, for 10 million I'd wear a skirt and fuckme-boots to work Nov 17 09:57:34 yes, but you do that anyway ewon ;) Nov 17 09:59:15 groan Nov 17 09:59:29 doc|home: yeah, but would you compromise your standards for $1000 .... Nov 17 09:59:38 you don;t get the entire $10 mill.... Nov 17 09:59:40 * torpor pictures ewon as a lovely young female coder going to work in fuckme-boots .. Nov 17 09:59:54 http://www.url.ie/19k Nov 17 10:00:08 yeah, the reality might be somehwat worse torpor ;) Nov 17 10:00:09 ugh, busybox tail doesn't support -f Nov 17 10:00:15 is there an alternative? Nov 17 10:00:15 yeah thats what i was thinking the truth may be .. Nov 17 10:01:18 oh, yes it does Nov 17 10:01:25 wonder why it wasn't working for me earlier Nov 17 10:01:31 ScaredyCat: standards? pffft Nov 17 10:01:34 :) Nov 17 10:01:47 to be honest. i think google can go fuck themselves Nov 17 10:01:56 'nuff said Nov 17 10:02:11 how Nov 17 10:02:16 very Nov 17 10:02:19 dare you Nov 17 10:02:23 they may figure that out Nov 17 10:02:44 seriously, can someone explain why people care about android? Nov 17 10:03:02 * ScaredyCat shuffles some papers Nov 17 10:03:06 hehehe Nov 17 10:03:10 exactly Nov 17 10:03:23 openmoko+neo1973 is by far the superior option Nov 17 10:05:09 doc|home mostt people just believe hypes and do not question Nov 17 10:05:28 ah, the "drollgle" factor Nov 17 10:05:31 doc|home, because it's backed up by one of the most influential IT companies? Nov 17 10:05:48 zipola: influential how? they have tonnes of cash? Nov 17 10:06:15 they're an advertising company with a search engine and email client tacked on Nov 17 10:06:45 Influential as in whenever they do something people listen. Plus they usually do cool things. Nov 17 10:07:10 no, they give stuff away so they can farm user data Nov 17 10:08:59 night all Nov 17 10:09:08 night.. Nov 17 10:09:10 or morning Nov 17 10:09:22 indeed :/ Nov 17 10:09:46 ScaredyCat: by the way, I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I hope you're happy. I'm gettnig an n800? :o Nov 17 10:09:54 s/?/. Nov 17 10:10:19 it's what I've been looking for for about 6 months, and what drew me towards the neo Nov 17 10:12:00 anyone use their neo on cingular for gprs? Nov 17 10:12:24 cool Nov 17 10:12:25 you know you wanted to anyway.. Nov 17 10:12:25 it'd just have taken longer to decide :) Nov 17 10:12:30 I'm able to connect as far as I can tell, but it never gets an ip address... LCP shuts the connection down like 10 seconds later Nov 17 10:12:31 [2007-11-17 10:08:24] cool Nov 17 10:12:33 [2007-11-17 10:08:36] you know you wanted to anyway.. Nov 17 10:12:35 [2007-11-17 10:08:45] it'd just have taken longer to decide :) Nov 17 10:12:42 sorry, my laptop decided it was going to try and connect via my neo... Nov 17 10:13:22 ScaredyCat: I did, but I didn't until you or edistar said they were cheaper than I'd expected so I looked at them more closely ;/ Nov 17 10:13:48 * doc|home zZzZzZz Nov 17 10:14:00 :) Nov 17 10:17:50 hachi how does your ppp config look like? Nov 17 10:18:01 well Nov 17 10:18:11 I'd say it's an 8 bit text encoding Nov 17 10:18:14 mostly english Nov 17 10:18:16 :) Nov 17 10:18:19 (hold on, pasting Nov 17 10:18:26 pastebin Nov 17 10:18:30 yes Nov 17 10:18:33 do you have any lcp-echo-faliure or lcp-echo-interval set? Nov 17 10:18:49 I tried it with lcp-echo-interval 0 and 3, both don't help Nov 17 10:18:59 I'm getting an lcp disconnect from far end Nov 17 10:20:25 http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11546 Nov 17 10:21:02 oh, crap, maybe the CGQREQ clause is causing it Nov 17 10:21:07 ppp error logs can be very cruel in hiding the real cause.. i had a sim which was switched off by the carrier and suddnly gave me lcp errors instead of ppp auth errors Nov 17 10:22:43 well, I can move the sim over to a moto slvr Nov 17 10:22:48 and connect just fine Nov 17 10:23:24 also a sony t637, but that phone glitches on the lcp stuff on me Nov 17 10:24:12 try lcp-echo-failure 0 Nov 17 10:24:13 lcp-echo-interval 0 Nov 17 10:24:35 http://damnsmalllinux.org/f/topic-3-26-17437-0.html Nov 17 10:24:45 # Most GPRS-enabled wireless devices don't reply to LCP echo's Nov 17 10:25:40 yeah, I recommend that Nov 17 10:25:48 I need to read those gsm docs... AT+COPS is slow... I don't know why Nov 17 10:25:58 I had gprs running (with l-e-i 0) Nov 17 10:26:03 ahh, I'm getting CHAP challenges and ignoring them somehow Nov 17 10:26:09 I didn't even know this thing used CHAP Nov 17 10:26:21 well, it's up to the provider, methinks Nov 17 10:26:22 there's my problem, thanks nevermind :) Nov 17 10:28:45 no deflate? Nov 17 10:28:48 do we have working gprs configs in the wiki already? Nov 17 10:28:59 you seem to Nov 17 10:29:01 they're close Nov 17 10:29:13 deflate compression seems busted Nov 17 10:31:07 the lcp stuff should probably be 0, as said Nov 17 10:31:16 IPCP requesting address... far end never sends me an IP address Nov 17 10:31:19 but I dunno, maybe the TI chip does LCP? *shrug* Nov 17 10:31:35 I'll let you know if it does... Nov 17 10:31:52 * mjr is not even sure if that's a provider or chip thing Nov 17 10:31:55 may be provider Nov 17 10:32:00 I'm pretty sure it's chip Nov 17 10:32:13 my sony t637 can't handle lcp Nov 17 10:32:21 but it works great with my moto slvr Nov 17 10:32:28 er, the lcp echos Nov 17 10:32:29 I mean Nov 17 10:32:58 hrrr.. this is so typical german engineering (ot) http://haus.eversberg.eu Nov 17 10:35:07 but cool.. nice piece of work. very geeky Nov 17 10:37:39 hubba hubba http://haus.eversberg.eu/richtfest/PICT0624.JPG Nov 17 10:53:51 ma ma ma.... Nov 17 11:03:45 hello Nov 17 11:11:23 njamnjamnjam Nov 17 11:30:09 screen on neo hangs Nov 17 11:30:32 followed directions on wiki, can't use cu to hit gsm directly Nov 17 11:31:42 buildhost is up Nov 17 11:37:55 do I want matchbox-common or openmoko-session2 ? Nov 17 11:42:46 my ui isn't starting up Nov 17 11:42:57 is there a way I can get ipkg to reinstall all packages? Nov 17 11:57:24 there was a quite big check-in / patch to gsmd yesterday - anybody any experiences with this? Nov 17 12:03:21 hachi: I was unable to get around the mb-common vs om-session2 issues just using ipkg Nov 17 12:03:38 Ended up reflashing it with a new build, and then everything worked Nov 17 12:11:53 :( Nov 17 12:12:10 CM, let's send him some candy Nov 17 12:12:28 abraxa_: I think so too, or some icecream or something Nov 17 12:13:50 hi Nov 17 12:19:37 http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/17/sicortex-intros-sc072-catapult-72-processor-cluster-for-1500/ Nov 17 12:19:48 wonder how quick you could built om with that Nov 17 12:19:52 build Nov 17 12:21:19 ScaredyCat: Well, I'm sure it would crash a lot quicker ;) Nov 17 12:24:44 Some kind of mips cpu's, can't find any details Nov 17 12:24:54 But 200w for the whole box isn't much Nov 17 12:26:46 no, sounds good Nov 17 12:33:50 yay, the neo1973 is here! Nov 17 12:34:02 NICK leastsuperrn Nov 17 12:39:42 I see there are lots of people around. Good. I shall try abusing them :) Nov 17 12:40:07 I have a problem with glibc - an ioctl() call I'm doing is stuck in an endless loop: Nov 17 12:40:22 (gdb) bt Nov 17 12:40:22 #0 0x40d6b10c in ioctl () from /lib/libc.so.6 Nov 17 12:40:46 I installed glibc-dbg via ipkg, hoping it would let me dive into ioctl() - to no avail Nov 17 12:41:05 Does anyone know how I can debug this further? Nov 17 12:44:47 abraxa_ hmm.. some blocking vs nonblocking foo? Nov 17 12:44:55 <- just guessing Nov 17 12:46:21 Well, the ioctl command I'm using is VT_WAITACTIVE which blocks until the newly selected tty has become the active one Nov 17 12:46:42 Just in my case, it never returns and I need to figure out why - otherwise we can play videos but never get back to X :) Nov 17 12:47:28 <_diego_> strace can help? Nov 17 12:48:09 eek.. Nov 17 12:48:15 abraxa_ why not play natively? Nov 17 12:48:17 abraxa_: i still suspect a race condition. what happens when you add a sleep before waitactive? Nov 17 12:48:40 roh: that's a gta01-optimization to get full screen video Nov 17 12:48:45 the only way, actually Nov 17 12:48:49 uuuh.. i seee Nov 17 12:49:08 mplayer on qvga :) gta02 will not need that Nov 17 12:49:44 _diego_: Interesting hint, let me see... Nov 17 12:49:51 mickeyl: I'll try that, too Nov 17 12:50:26 i have heard of problems in the VT switching code when X is involved Nov 17 12:50:29 recent problems Nov 17 12:50:35 RP can tell a tale of that Nov 17 12:50:38 RP? Nov 17 12:51:16 Well, I found this quote: Nov 17 12:51:23 "xorg-x11-server-1.1.1-vt-activate-is-a-terrible-api.patch: Since the VT_ACTIVATE/VT_WAITACTIVE pair are never guaranteed to successfully complete, set a 5 second timeout on the WAITACTIVE, and retry the pair until we win. (#207746)" Nov 17 12:51:33 If even xorg has no proper solution, then... yeah. Nov 17 12:51:36 ya Nov 17 12:52:35 btw mickeyl, that was #2 from yesterday ;) Nov 17 12:53:19 ah, right Nov 17 12:53:23 i figured that :) Nov 17 12:53:25 hehe Nov 17 12:55:25 robtaylor: do you know whether we build the latest and greatest HAL and OHM in OE yet? Nov 17 12:57:58 gday all Nov 17 13:02:24 abraxa_ you could take a look at the vt-switching code in dfb.. there the same problems should offur Nov 17 13:02:30 s/offur/occur/ Nov 17 13:02:31 roh meant: abraxa_ you could take a look at the vt-switching code in dfb.. there the same problems should occur Nov 17 13:03:32 I did look but couldn't anything - I shall look again Nov 17 13:03:35 find* Nov 17 13:30:46 yo Nov 17 13:31:02 w00t! got a new debug board! w00t! gonna try to get my old neo working again. Nov 17 13:31:07 * torpor does the debug board voodoo dance. Nov 17 13:31:10 it involves tiny circles. Nov 17 13:31:57 If at metalab you should have enough people to aid with holding the cable in place, too ;) Nov 17 13:35:16 yup Nov 17 13:35:22 but now with the new debug board i don't need it. ;) Nov 17 13:43:25 Oh, I thought you broke the connector on the Neo, too Nov 17 13:45:50 i have a new neo! Nov 17 13:48:28 torpor, unbricked?? gratz! Nov 17 13:48:57 Ghiottone: no not yet Nov 17 13:49:01 i got another kit instead! :) Nov 17 13:49:16 so i have a new debug board, and a new phone availabel to me if i need it .. but i wanna get my old phone working again now Nov 17 13:49:28 horvatj73 loaned me a new devkit to get it all sorted out. Nov 17 13:49:37 a new advanced kit? Nov 17 13:49:42 i guess the vienna openmoko hacking scene is not without its supporters! Nov 17 13:49:44 Ghiottone: yes. Nov 17 13:49:45 oh great things Nov 17 13:50:07 so we have an abundance of hardware here now, and if everything goes well, we'll all have working phones plus one to spare for our weekly meetings.. Nov 17 13:50:37 :) Nov 17 13:52:25 the thing is it looks bad: my original phone just won't start. Nov 17 14:00:35 mmh.. ok Nov 17 14:00:45 hey! Nov 17 14:00:50 it looks like i've got JTAG on my busted neo! Nov 17 14:00:54 what do i do now?!\ Nov 17 14:01:10 flash uboot Nov 17 14:01:12 i fiddled with the cables, and my while(sleep1) stopped, and openocd lets me telnet to port 444 Nov 17 14:01:15 so that looks good! Nov 17 14:01:24 how do i do that! quick! before i wake up !!! :) Nov 17 14:02:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader has some documentation Nov 17 14:03:21 basically you need to halt it at pc=0 , upload lowlevel_foo to ram, set a breakpoint behind it, execute till there, load uboot into ram behind that , execute it. Nov 17 14:03:39 uboot on serial, while running can then flash itself via dfu Nov 17 14:03:41 ok! Nov 17 14:04:00 would it be worth it to use devirginator? Nov 17 14:04:33 yes and no. depends if you have wiped out yout uboot_env. if not i would only flash uboot Nov 17 14:04:49 i think i just want a fresh start with this .. Nov 17 14:04:52 the devirginator is sometimes difficult to understand Nov 17 14:05:10 also you could keep your badblocktable that way Nov 17 14:05:12 how can i quickly find out if JTAG is *Really* working? Nov 17 14:05:38 i can telnet to 4444 and openocd tells me there's a connection. Nov 17 14:05:48 is there some cmd i can do to see that my neo is really there? Nov 17 14:05:55 reset halt Nov 17 14:06:00 can you' reset halt' it? Nov 17 14:06:11 the cmd returns but i don't get any output Nov 17 14:06:20 j@boko-ubu:~/hak/openmoko$ telnet localhost 4444 Nov 17 14:06:20 Trying 127.0.0.1... Nov 17 14:06:21 Connected to localhost. Nov 17 14:06:21 Escape character is '^]'. Nov 17 14:06:21 Open On-Chip Debugger Nov 17 14:06:23 > reset halt Nov 17 14:06:25 > Nov 17 14:06:28 (sorry for paste) Nov 17 14:07:12 http://rafb.net/p/edO6OK20.html Nov 17 14:07:17 check it out^^^ Nov 17 14:14:53 what does this mean? Nov 17 14:14:54 Error: embeddedice.c:181 embeddedice_build_reg_cache(): unknown EmbeddedICE version (comms ctrl: 0xfffffffe) Nov 17 14:21:44 hm.. ive never seen that error messages Nov 17 14:23:16 torpor: is the debugboard and the neo connected via usb directly to powered hosts? Nov 17 14:23:42 best is not to take 2 sockets directly above each other (can mostly only give 500mA together) Nov 17 14:23:56 also the battery has to be charged and in Nov 17 14:24:51 i mostly plug the neo and the debugboard together, the add the batter, then the usb to the debugboard, then the usb to the moko (which switches it on usually) Nov 17 14:25:30 when it does not turn on, press the power for a second, to be sure Nov 17 14:25:56 in case the pmu does not know to wake up on usb anymore Nov 17 14:29:45 ok Nov 17 14:29:52 different neo, we're using the devirginator .. Nov 17 14:30:18 and on this neo, openocd seems to work fine! but is it normal as part of the devirginator process that the screen goes white and the buzzer stays on for long minutes!? Nov 17 14:34:57 not really.. you should see some smily Nov 17 14:36:02 now.. since some people asked: http://people.openmoko.org/roh/workspace.jpg ;) Nov 17 14:36:18 yeah it looks like devirginator is not working for us Nov 17 14:36:22 so i'll do this by hand. Nov 17 14:36:32 does the uboot load_binary usually take some time? Nov 17 14:37:24 only for uboot a few seconds.. not too long Nov 17 14:37:48 okay it loaded it Nov 17 14:37:50 and i then do resume Nov 17 14:37:51 depends on the amount of data.. jtag is basically banging some serial wires to fill shift-registers Nov 17 14:38:04 but instead of getting a usb-serial device showing up, the screen goes white and the buzzer goes on solid .. Nov 17 14:38:19 use the real serial on the debugboard Nov 17 14:38:42 but this whitescreen on and buzzer situation is a bit worrying .. Nov 17 14:38:51 could it be that i'm uploading the wrong uboot? Nov 17 14:38:57 roh: love the soldering iron... how's your fire insurance? :D Nov 17 14:39:38 Stephmw hehe.. thats only there when i don't use it. standard weller 50 watt tempronic 24V ac Nov 17 14:40:33 roh: wish I had so much space :) Nov 17 14:41:09 roh: this is my total work surface atm.. http://blog.tangency.co.uk/2007/10/my-desktop.html Nov 17 14:41:17 lowlevel_foo . theres hould only be one for r4 gta01? right? Nov 17 14:42:16 gta01bv4 Nov 17 14:42:37 okay the one in the devirginator package looks like its for v3 .. so i'll use the one that looks like its for v4. Nov 17 14:42:59 Stephmw uuuh.. thats small Nov 17 14:43:42 mine is only so clean since i just removed a pile about 90cm high of paper and hardware some weeks ago. Nov 17 14:43:57 i couldn see my tft anymore Nov 17 14:45:12 but now i just use the notebook most of the time.. even has some pixels more Nov 17 14:45:41 okay guys .. we're making progress. Nov 17 14:46:08 with this neo (not my broken one - another one), we are able to get into jtag and upload the uboot.. it is true: we need the right lowlevel_foo .. but it looks like i ahve that sorted now Nov 17 14:46:28 roh: 1-bed flat shared between 2 people... so I can't spread out like a batchelor anymore ;) Nov 17 14:46:41 roh: time to buy a place I guess Nov 17 14:46:54 the question i have is this: once i get into u-boot console (serial), i can write uboot to nand, right? is there some way to do this through JTAG instead? the reason for this question is that we are doing all this with a VM environment, and it doesn't look like we can get to the uboot serial prompt fast enough to prevent uboot from trying to mount the filesystem and boot .. Nov 17 14:48:15 wait: we can use dfu-util, right! Nov 17 14:48:45 torpor yes.. dfu-util is the easiest way Nov 17 14:48:58 but that needs a valid uboot env. the mtd are defined there Nov 17 14:49:10 but the devirginator should handle that Nov 17 14:49:39 the devirginator looks like its set up for v3 gta01's Nov 17 14:49:58 i can now get into u-boot menu and keep it from booting - shall i then dfu-util to burn uboot into NAND? Nov 17 14:50:08 the problem then will be that the uboot env is potentially corrupt, right? Nov 17 14:50:21 do print_env and see if the mtd partitiontable looks sane Nov 17 14:50:30 or was it printenv? Nov 17 14:50:30 okay Nov 17 14:50:34 i know what you mean Nov 17 14:53:01 success! Nov 17 14:53:11 we used dfu-util to burn the new uboot, and the device boots up by itself now. Nov 17 14:53:15 so now we can continue with this one! Nov 17 14:53:20 one device down, one to go|! :) woot! Nov 17 14:53:25 * torpor does the debrick dance. Nov 17 14:53:32 :) Nov 17 14:57:08 yay! Nov 17 15:01:16 torpor is the BEST f**k the rest!!! Nov 17 15:01:24 man! Nov 17 15:01:31 hah hah! Nov 17 15:01:35 * torpor gloats. Nov 17 15:04:18 worked on the brokenmoko? Nov 17 15:06:46 no Nov 17 15:06:50 the brokenmoko is still broked. Nov 17 15:07:03 but the *other* moko we had that was bricked is now fixed. Nov 17 15:07:16 it was broken by having a bad uboot burned to it and i have now fixed that. Nov 17 15:07:29 so we're back in good shape now here in openmoko vienna... just one borked neo to go .. Nov 17 15:07:46 if i can debork it, then we have a spare one to use in our weekly openmoko meets here at metalab. Nov 17 15:19:21 just got my call.. will leave withing the next 30 minutes for today Nov 17 15:19:27 -g Nov 17 15:19:46 well thanks for your help roh! Nov 17 15:19:50 i'm back to code mode now .. Nov 17 15:20:08 i'm going to ignore the dead neo for a day or two and see if we can't just RMA it for a fresh one. Nov 17 15:20:21 have fun. eventually you could try the adapter to the pads when the rma does not work out. Nov 17 15:20:27 how long did you have the device? Nov 17 15:20:40 about a month. Nov 17 15:20:44 was one of the first ones in vienna. Nov 17 15:20:53 hm i see.. Nov 17 15:20:56 its really a drag that its borked somehow - it just does not seem to come alive. Nov 17 15:21:11 but hey .. on with the code. Nov 17 15:21:48 *taking notes* Nov 17 15:22:07 whats up with the current image, anyone know? whats the story with this please wait business? Nov 17 15:43:41 Hello, did anyone figure out a fix for the "U-boot failed to finish writing" problem when running openmoko in qemu? Nov 17 15:44:43 webjames try a new build.. andrew checked in some fix Nov 17 15:45:02 build of qemu Nov 17 15:45:17 okay Nov 17 15:45:19 r3434 Nov 17 15:45:48 some weird problem with dynticks it seems Nov 17 15:46:57 i've got qemu 0.9.0 Nov 17 15:49:39 roh, http://dpaste.com/25221/ Nov 17 15:50:36 0.9.0 does say nothing Nov 17 15:51:23 make clobber qemu, make update Nov 17 15:51:30 the do make qemu again Nov 17 15:52:12 eh make clobber-qemu Nov 17 15:52:20 not clobber qemu Nov 17 16:33:51 is the matchbox build a crock atm ? Nov 17 16:34:29 http://pastebin.ca/778467 Nov 17 16:40:21 i get: U-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up. Nov 17 16:41:14 roh, any other ideas? Nov 17 16:41:36 uhm, who's a admin at projects.openmoko.org? Nov 17 16:41:57 I tried registring but it wont send my registration mail, and it doesnt work getting it resent (i just dont get a mail) Nov 17 16:44:29 anyone else using ubuntu gutsy with openmoko in qemu? Nov 17 16:52:34 webjames: i will be soon Nov 17 16:53:06 well i can't get qemu/openmoko to work with gutsy Nov 17 16:55:37 just a headsup flexd_ Nov 17 16:55:54 hmm Nov 17 16:55:57 works well with debian etch Nov 17 16:56:02 shouldnt be much of a diffrence Nov 17 16:56:05 what errors do you get? Nov 17 16:58:58 see here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu Nov 17 17:07:14 these are my exact errors: http://dpaste.com/25226/ Nov 17 17:07:23 to flexd_ Nov 17 17:10:01 im doing it now Nov 17 17:10:04 we'l see soon :) Nov 17 17:10:11 maybe i get the same Nov 17 17:10:13 is the status of openmoko in trunk viable so that I can grab it on Monday and get neo1973 to boot? :) Nov 17 17:10:41 I just got the phone yesterday, and our project manager wants it to boot up by wednesday Nov 17 17:11:20 I haven't read all up on wiki yet, is it all up-to-date? Nov 17 17:18:27 meh i get same error Nov 17 17:20:26 Hmm.. ERROR: Build of /home/moko/openembedded/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb do_rootfs failed Nov 17 17:20:53 CM: same here :( Nov 17 17:23:15 fgau: I think mickey_away might be up to something, so I'll wait a while Nov 17 17:23:54 17:38 mickeyl org.oe.dev * r1e012394... / (1 packages/gsm/gsmd.inc): gsmd: add new plugin gta01 Nov 17 17:24:55 The problem is ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: gsmd-plugin-machine-gta01 Nov 17 17:24:58 ruxpin: yes, yes, and yes. Nov 17 17:25:01 So I guess it's just missing.. Nov 17 17:25:22 ruxpin: you can grab the mokomakefile tonight, do a build (your first one will take a few hours, depending on your build system) and run your own image by monday Nov 17 17:26:04 the image is in various states of disrepair as various components go through big changes. there needs to be a release engineer seat filled at openmoko, but nobody has the time for it (ironic, coz it should be something that takes 10 minutes to monitor every day..) Nov 17 17:27:18 for that reason i suggest you, right away, get a daily build of openmoko happening to catch daily updates.. this way you can, by wednesday, give your boss an honest view of the scene. i hope you conclude: it is rapidly changing and is already quite a powerful code-base to settle into .. Nov 17 17:27:35 things are often borked, but you can use monotone to help yourself out there .. Nov 17 17:28:21 and never forget: working hardware is more important than fancy code. ;) Nov 17 17:28:33 in the beginning, ya Nov 17 17:29:52 right, show me fancy code that doesn't run on hardware! ;) Nov 17 17:30:29 :/ Nov 17 17:35:13 flexd_, i wonder what is causing it? Nov 17 17:36:30 kernel Nov 17 17:36:41 read about it on the site :)' Nov 17 17:52:41 flexd_, damn Nov 17 17:53:56 hi Nov 17 18:12:36 mickey_away: I think poky uses git head for ohm, so i guess OE does Nov 17 18:12:51 mickey_away: in terms of hal, no idea, bet just look at the .bb :) Nov 17 18:15:46 I think we just hit a milestone Nov 17 18:17:24 And what milestone would that be? Nov 17 18:17:49 openmoko working, qtopia not Nov 17 18:18:19 Ah, but that can't happen, so someone has made sure of it. OM does not build at the moment. :P Nov 17 18:18:54 I just built it .... Nov 17 18:19:06 OM has never built for me from the beginning to the end Nov 17 18:19:15 lol -!!! Nov 17 18:19:16 not a single time Nov 17 18:19:28 ScaredyCat: try doing a clean build; it'll fail with missing dependencies. Nov 17 18:19:33 nbd: did you look at that fon stuff btw? Nov 17 18:19:38 ~lart nbd Nov 17 18:19:38 * apt sends a legion of lawyers after nbd's head Nov 17 18:19:47 dcordes: ? Nov 17 18:20:06 ScaredyCat: what fon stuff specifically? Nov 17 18:20:29 nbd: it's really not been so bad lately; OM has been building 8 out of 10 times for me (I do a complete build from nothing several times per week, on different hardware) Nov 17 18:20:39 you were going to look at 'fixing' the + so I could put openwrt on it :) Nov 17 18:21:09 ScaredyCat: i won't have time for it until 26th Nov 17 18:21:25 (university crap) Nov 17 18:21:44 oh, ok, well i'm not trying to rush you, I'll be happy when I can do it :) Nov 17 18:22:23 mwester: then i'll try it again soon Nov 17 18:22:35 mwester: i'm not doing this very often, because it takes ages on my server Nov 17 18:22:43 well, not ages, but more than 24 hours Nov 17 18:22:49 wtf! Nov 17 18:23:05 what is it, a piii 400 ? Nov 17 18:23:13 an athlon64 Nov 17 18:23:23 but it has only 1G ram Nov 17 18:23:26 are you building from scratch every time? Nov 17 18:23:45 yes Nov 17 18:23:48 nbd: does the ram really matter so much? what exactly are you building? Nov 17 18:24:08 edistar: ram size matters because of the size of the fs cache Nov 17 18:24:13 from scratch build takes me 12 hours on a cellery 1.66 1gb ram Nov 17 18:24:22 nbd: I have an athlon64 and 512mb and it builds everything in about 11h Nov 17 18:24:27 my lappy Nov 17 18:24:30 well, maybe it has gotten faster these days Nov 17 18:24:38 but i remember a month ago it was 24 hours for me Nov 17 18:24:49 well, it's always taken that long for me Nov 17 18:25:04 24 seems a lot Nov 17 18:25:14 CM has an athlon64 too iirc Nov 17 18:25:24 ~fish CM Nov 17 18:25:25 * apt slaps CM around with a large trout Nov 17 18:25:41 how long do your builds take CM ? Nov 17 18:26:46 and some things during the build really made me go 'WTF?' Nov 17 18:26:58 nbd: eg? Nov 17 18:27:00 e.g. seeing qemu-system-arm run while it was generating glibc locales Nov 17 18:27:16 hehe Nov 17 18:27:24 Oh, disable the blasted locale stuff. Nov 17 18:27:37 That's for when we actually get the phone, like, working. Nov 17 18:27:42 hehe Nov 17 18:27:48 yes, but why does it have to use qemu to generate the locales? Nov 17 18:27:58 They are specific to the host Nov 17 18:28:08 and why is the default config always omgwtfbloated? Nov 17 18:28:13 :) Nov 17 18:28:18 Now *THAT* is a good question. Nov 17 18:28:20 and many targets go OOM when they try to compile it locally Nov 17 18:28:31 ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" ftw Nov 17 18:29:03 I've wondered that too, and been told that I can make my own image if I don't like the one with all the bloatware. (Why are we screwing with 30,000 games for Linux when it won't make a blasted phone call!!) Nov 17 18:29:18 crazy Nov 17 18:29:26 Focus, openmoko - focus!! Nov 17 18:30:19 And the other thing that makes me insane is the theming. Why on God's green earth are we worried about shading and themes when gsmd can't register with the network reliably? Nov 17 18:30:32 heh Nov 17 18:30:34 yeah Nov 17 18:30:43 We can worry about tweaking icon shapes once the phone can wake up from suspend without crashing. Nov 17 18:30:51 oh yeah, building binary locales == bad thing Nov 17 18:30:57 obviously different people are working on different problems with different priorities Nov 17 18:31:08 There. I feel better now. :D Nov 17 18:31:10 it is called teamwork ;) Nov 17 18:32:18 actually, although mwester is prone to ranting, I do agree somewhat. Nov 17 18:32:48 get the core functionality working, then overlay the goodies Nov 17 18:32:49 :P Thank you. :D Nov 17 18:33:15 I do however think that omitting 850 was genius Nov 17 18:33:17 ;) Nov 17 18:33:53 * ScaredyCat throws fruit us at mwester Nov 17 18:33:58 errm Nov 17 18:34:02 * ScaredyCat throws fruit buns at mwester Nov 17 18:34:55 * mwester is struggling to ignore ScaredyCat's comment about 850... Nov 17 18:35:13 * ScaredyCat feels the line tense... Nov 17 18:35:34 yeah, I mean who would think that 850 was needed anyway.. Nov 17 18:35:43 * ScaredyCat reels in mwester Nov 17 18:35:50 hehe Nov 17 18:36:33 what is 850? Nov 17 18:37:03 ixs: 850h Nov 17 18:37:05 mhz* Nov 17 18:37:08 the gsm band Nov 17 18:37:10 i guess Nov 17 18:37:22 * flexd_ just completed assasins creed! :D Nov 17 18:38:50 yeah Nov 17 18:39:00 what is is , what use is it too... Nov 17 18:39:52 ahhh Nov 17 18:39:53 kk Nov 17 18:39:58 never needed it Nov 17 18:40:18 but when are you releasing the cdma version???????ßßßßß???ßßßß??ß Nov 17 18:40:46 lol Nov 17 18:44:20 ScaredyCat: Sorry, was half asleep infront of the tv. Nov 17 18:44:39 ScaredyCat: At most about 10.5h on my old amd64, so you were right :) Nov 17 18:45:16 :) Nov 17 18:48:26 * mwester laughs at ScaredyCat, who just reeled in nothing more than a smelly drowned worm. Nov 17 18:48:53 yeah, I always thought that of you too... ;) Nov 17 18:50:15 ~fish mwester Nov 17 18:50:16 * apt slaps mwester around with a large trout Nov 17 18:52:09 stop abusing my nickname for slapping ppl ;) Nov 17 18:53:19 Such abuse I get! Nov 17 18:54:18 ~blame fish_ Nov 17 18:54:19 * apt blames fish_ (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Nov 17 18:58:57 canada is not to blame! Nov 17 18:59:49 it's not even a real country anyway ;-) Nov 17 19:03:52 are there actual specs for wireless usb? Nov 17 19:04:04 I was reading about wireless usb on the mailinglist ;) Nov 17 19:04:11 does someone know Michael Goff, the initiator of the pictureviewer project on the projects site? or what is his nick here in irc, maybe? :-) Nov 17 19:05:41 would wireless usb even be usb? Nov 17 19:05:47 you know, being wireless and all Nov 17 19:06:15 flexd_: bluetooth serial port is still serial port from applications' POV Nov 17 19:06:33 dottedmag: but that's hax Nov 17 19:06:37 clearly Nov 17 19:07:45 Hi, do you have problems compiling openmoko? (openmoko-dialer2_svn.bb, libmokopanelui2_svn.bb, libjana_svn.bb, ibmokogsmd2_svn.bb, libgsmd_svn.bb, usbpath-native_svn.bb, ) Nov 17 19:12:56 Tyrae1: Not those - the current problems are unresolved dependencies when the rootfs is built. I don't think those packages are causing trouble right now. Nov 17 19:13:55 * mwester is trying a serial full build to see if the dependency issue become fewer. Nov 17 19:14:53 mwester: unresolved dependancies on the build host or between openmoko/openembedded packages? Nov 17 19:15:36 packages Nov 17 19:16:01 They show up when running task "do_rootfs" way at the end of the build. Nov 17 19:45:48 Greetings MichaelShiloh. Nov 17 20:36:13 question, do you chaps use UML in companies a lot? We are learning about it at school now and I am wondering if it is actually relevant Nov 17 20:38:41 greetins, mwester Nov 17 20:49:21 edistar, i work with software development, i'll have to say it totally depends, with companies, and also depends inside companies...some people like it, some not...many people (like me :P), see the point with it but never get around to using it :) Nov 17 20:50:12 edistar, thats my experience Nov 17 20:50:46 jeddy3: thanks Nov 17 20:51:13 edistar, might be good learning anyway ;) Nov 17 20:51:26 jeddy3: it somehow does make programs more structured ;) Nov 17 20:51:39 edistar, indeed it can Nov 17 20:53:35 UML does not automagically impose good design though, just helps visualising it Nov 17 20:55:39 jeddy3: UML is good for exchanging and discussing designs. It just should be kept in apropriate bounds: on sketches and blackboards, and under no circumstances should leak into official documentations in large doses, and actual programming must not be tied to the UML diagrams. Nov 17 20:55:54 oops. s/jeddy3/edistar/ Nov 17 20:56:09 dottedmag: thx Nov 17 20:56:38 dottedmag, thats a really good way of putting it Nov 17 21:02:38 hm...i'm getting an timeout with monotone.openembedded.org while starting with MokoMakefile ... is monotone using special port and could a firewall cause the problems? Nov 17 21:08:21 dread, I also get those sometimes...if I just retry it often works Nov 17 21:11:48 wow...busy channel Nov 17 21:11:58 wenko: relatively.. Nov 17 21:12:11 Just seen the number of people and could not believe it! Nov 17 21:12:51 wenko: heh Nov 17 21:13:02 I am going to an openmoko showing in Vancouver being done by the local LUG so I was thinking of checking out the channel Nov 17 21:13:13 wow, cool Nov 17 21:13:41 wenko: OM has gathered its followers cunningly ;) Nov 17 21:13:56 indeed Nov 17 21:14:46 jeddy3: okay, I'll try it the rest of this evening :) Nov 17 21:15:03 now they just need to produce a phone that will work in the majority of the US Nov 17 21:16:22 dread, :D what i meant was...if i try a second, or maybe third time, it often recovers...no need to hammer servers ;) Nov 17 21:21:51 jeddy3: as i'm always waiting for the timeout, I#m not hammering the server ;-) ping is not a problem....which ports are used by monotone? http like SVN does? Nov 17 21:35:28 4691 iirc - tcp Nov 17 21:41:45 dread i have no idea, sorry Nov 17 21:41:58 dread, ah, what he said :) Nov 17 21:42:01 uhm....port 4691 sounds not good Nov 17 22:01:09 X on my moko is firing up, but the 'frontend'... whatever that is Nov 17 22:01:13 is failing to start Nov 17 22:01:26 so I get the screen saying 'please wait...' and then it stays there Nov 17 22:01:34 is there a way to debug this? Nov 17 22:06:38 That was fixed yesterday; you'll probably need to sync up and build again. Nov 17 22:08:02 mwester: The builds complete successfully? Nov 17 22:08:28 It might if one had a previously-successful build. Nov 17 22:10:18 hachi: have you tried ipkg update && ipkg upgrade? Nov 17 22:10:58 try to remove matchbox-common and -force-reinstall openmoko-session2 and openmoko-today2-folders Nov 17 22:12:35 I did those last night... will try again Nov 17 22:14:17 ugh, buildhost is down again? Nov 17 22:14:28 no, my dns is horked Nov 17 22:19:01 it's also weird, when I try to bring up a GPRS session with the same sim card, using a moto slvr I'm asked to do PAP authentication Nov 17 22:19:13 and with the moko's gsm modem, I'm asked to do CHAP auth Nov 17 22:19:28 I'm pretty sure the same requests are being sent, apart from the magic Nov 17 22:19:37 no dice on reinstalling those packages Nov 17 22:20:54 I mean, reinstalling them worked, doesn't help the X startup problem Nov 17 22:24:01 something's looking for 'cpp' during X startup Nov 17 22:24:16 I don't think that's ever gonna fit on the phone's firmware Nov 17 22:24:34 smells like e17 *cough* Nov 17 22:24:53 har har Nov 17 22:24:54 :D Nov 17 22:25:24 killing x and then firing up the xsession from a shell gives me the same results, but I got some log messages Nov 17 22:25:34 matchbox-keyboard is firing up Nov 17 22:25:52 maybe matchbox-keyboard is somehow my window manager XD Nov 17 22:26:05 okay, the mtn command using an exotic port semms to be a problem there...do you know any possibility to use the MokoMakefile without the mtn command? :) Nov 17 22:26:34 mtn is the monotone checkout stuff Nov 17 22:26:56 I don't know about it much, but my guess is that the mokomakefile kinda depends on a way to get the source code Nov 17 22:27:00 and that's it Nov 17 22:27:06 but that's a GUESS from me Nov 17 22:27:48 bad news :( hm...okay, maybe i have to setup something like a vpn tunnel....too much complications :( Nov 17 22:28:49 you have to use monotone, that's how openembedded works Nov 17 22:30:04 is there, maybe a way to download a snapshot via http, etc? Nov 17 22:30:15 no... Nov 17 22:30:30 you can get images... Nov 17 22:30:44 * hachi forces reinstall of matchbox-wm Nov 17 22:30:54 but mtn is the openembedded equivalent of svn or cvs Nov 17 22:31:27 yeah, but I#d like to look into the build process ;) okay...i see, i have to find a way to get mtn working ... Nov 17 22:31:40 can't you open the port ? Nov 17 22:31:41 ScaredyCat: MokoMakefile fetches mtn snapshot, FYI. Nov 17 22:31:42 many projects provide daily snapshots of cvs or svn through http Nov 17 22:32:00 perhaps OE is just too elite for that :) Nov 17 22:32:14 it just works differently Nov 17 22:32:59 what DISPLAY does the default run on in this environment? Nov 17 22:33:04 dottedmag: updates are checked out Nov 17 22:33:12 ScaredyCat: it could be supressed Nov 17 22:33:19 it could Nov 17 22:33:32 but you may as well not use the makefile Nov 17 22:33:50 hachi: :0 if that's what you mean Nov 17 22:34:37 ScaredyCat: i think gcc or some other project has daily cvs snapshots available on http Nov 17 22:34:58 yes, I know... Nov 17 22:35:12 mtn doesn't use http. Nov 17 22:35:14 end Nov 17 22:35:27 it's very handy, when you want to quickly check out the whole tree you unpack the snapshot and do svn update (or in this case it would be mtd update or something) Nov 17 22:35:33 hurrr Nov 17 22:35:41 you don;t have to convince me - I know. Nov 17 22:35:46 matchbox-panel-2 isn't starting up properly, instead it's getting stuck Nov 17 22:36:25 wait, here we go Nov 17 22:36:38 openmoko-today is throwing a segmentation fault Nov 17 22:37:03 same with openmoko-dialer Nov 17 22:38:19 no dbus running? I swear I see a dbus thread running Nov 17 22:38:57 ScaredyCat: no, i can't :( I'm on a campus network....I'm just writing a mail to the admins describing the project, monotone and everything to get them to open it....and i'm thinking about constructing an vpn tunnel... Nov 17 22:39:44 do you know the hostname and port it's trying to hit? Nov 17 22:39:50 also, does monotone speak http? Nov 17 22:40:18 dread: don't forget about git, svn and cvs pserver ports - sources for packages will be downloaded separately. Nov 17 22:41:53 dread: I'm trying to fix you up with something, if you can tell me the hostname and port it's connecting to Nov 17 22:42:09 to at least get you an initial build Nov 17 22:43:05 dottedmag: cvs and svn are ok, git is a new point to me, thanks :) Nov 17 22:43:36 hachi: thanks :), it's currently stopping at the command Nov 17 22:43:37 mtn --db=OE.mtn pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev Nov 17 22:44:05 http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/MainPage Nov 17 22:45:05 ugh, it doesn't even speak http Nov 17 22:49:14 right, thats part of the problem :( Nov 17 22:50:59 i haven't heard anything good about mtn so far Nov 17 22:51:16 * balrog wonders why people chose it for OE Nov 17 22:51:50 hehe Nov 17 22:51:55 ask zecke Nov 17 22:52:42 there's perhaps a document somewhere explaining that, i'm just too lazy to look :) Nov 17 22:53:44 iirc it's made for oe, along with that bitbake shite Nov 17 22:54:49 can't you use an ssh tunnel dread? Nov 17 22:54:53 this rocks Nov 17 22:54:54 http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html Nov 17 22:55:16 i didn't know that, i think i had first heard of monotone when gpm starte using it Nov 17 22:55:58 balrog: It's just the choice. They could settle on mercurial or git instead - all DVCS seem to have very similar featureset. Nov 17 22:56:21 all scn was evaluated Nov 17 22:56:31 Hmm, who's the admin on projects.openmoko.org ? Nov 17 22:56:34 and monotone made it Nov 17 22:56:37 Who can i talk to about stuff there? :/ Nov 17 22:56:51 dottedmag: yes, i was just wondering why this choice was made, cause i'm only hearing complaints about mtn so far Nov 17 22:58:18 its because the documentation is a bit lacking that people moan... and unfortuneately... Nov 17 22:58:59 the people who know about it wont share the information with us... it's beneath them Nov 17 22:59:23 generally they just shout loudly about how we are doing it / using it wrongly Nov 17 22:59:39 but not really why it's wrong or how it should be done... Nov 17 22:59:59 actually.... I could have summed that up in a single word... Nov 17 23:00:23 I had a look through the OE wiki, did not find any 'Rationale' document. Nov 17 23:01:00 to try it with an ssh tunnel is my next step now :-) Nov 17 23:04:15 There was just the announcement: http://www.openembedded.org/new-scm Nov 17 23:09:14 flexd_ i have access to that.. our admin is gismo... whats your request? Nov 17 23:10:02 i think he's not getting email from the site roh... Nov 17 23:10:09 you favourite topic ;) Nov 17 23:10:22 r Nov 17 23:10:24 :P Nov 17 23:11:08 [2007-11-17 16:40:02] uhm, who's a admin at projects.openmoko.org? Nov 17 23:11:08 [2007-11-17 16:40:23] I tried registring but it wont send my registration mail, and it doesnt work getting it resent (i just dont get a mail) Nov 17 23:12:28 lol.Yes... Nov 17 23:12:43 oh, didnt see roh say anything Nov 17 23:12:45 -lol too :/ Nov 17 23:12:51 I tried registrating on the site Nov 17 23:12:57 but i never get a mail about it Nov 17 23:13:11 I've tried resending 5 times, still nothing Nov 17 23:13:28 hmmm.. weird.. it sends me mails from time to time Nov 17 23:13:36 hmm Nov 17 23:13:40 maybe it's just my mail server Nov 17 23:13:49 could someone send a mail to flexd@doombox.org ? Nov 17 23:14:00 It *does* work, i've gotten mails since i registered _:/ Nov 17 23:14:46 550 relay not permitted ;) Nov 17 23:15:17 to my mail address? Nov 17 23:15:45 flexd_ it says it sent mail Nov 17 23:15:54 no, just a reminder to roh .. ;) Nov 17 23:16:41 ScaredyCat different exim ;) Nov 17 23:16:50 ehhehe ok .. Nov 17 23:16:56 2007-11-17 19:15:22 1ItSCO-0008H5-MX => flexd@doombox.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=doombox.org [209.190.28.10] X=TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32 DN="C=US,ST=Unknown,L=Unknown,O=Unknown,OU=Unknown,CN=oven.oisjersey.co.uk,EMAIL=ssl@cpanel.net" Nov 17 23:16:56 2007-11-17 19:15:22 1ItSCO-0008H5-MX Completed Nov 17 23:18:06 roh: hmmm Nov 17 23:18:09 Must be my end then Nov 17 23:18:12 talking to my hosting guy Nov 17 23:18:16 but he says it's working Nov 17 23:18:22 and the mail server reports no errors :/ Nov 17 23:18:22 wtf. Nov 17 23:19:19 can yu check the logs for that timeframe? my records are in CET or something germany currently is in.. atleast it seems so Nov 17 23:19:42 hmm.. timezone europe/berlin .. why ever... Nov 17 23:21:43 4 mails, between 2007-11-16 17:02:03 and 2007-11-17 19:15:20, all successfully delivered.. atleast my exim believes so Nov 17 23:21:52 from noreply@projects.openmoko.org Nov 17 23:22:14 Yeah Nov 17 23:22:20 he went into my account and the mail is there Nov 17 23:22:26 for some reason my client aint fetching them now Nov 17 23:22:30 two diffrent machines too.. :S Nov 17 23:23:09 ;) Nov 17 23:26:04 how much HDD space I need for the trunk checkout? Nov 17 23:27:14 it's not just the checkout ... there's the sources.. and about 12GB for the build, though that shrinks again if you use INHERIT +="rm_work" Nov 17 23:29:05 allright, the ssh tunnel and an entry to /etc/hosts solved the first problem, now i got make setup running :-) Nov 17 23:29:37 next step follows tomorrow, thank you for your help :-) Nov 17 23:30:00 the bad news... Nov 17 23:30:10 it'll fail to build.. Nov 17 23:31:36 :( Nov 17 23:31:59 because of an update? Nov 17 23:32:00 you'll need to update... there's a broken dependancy atm Nov 17 23:32:07 ah, allriht Nov 17 23:32:17 but someone needs to fix it Nov 17 23:32:24 should be okay as i know "how" by now ;-) Nov 17 23:32:30 :) Nov 17 23:35:11 i think i found my problem Nov 17 23:35:16 somebody broke catch-all :/ Nov 17 23:35:38 catch-all is a spam invite... Nov 17 23:36:21 I used to get 2500 a day with catch-all turned on :( Nov 17 23:36:51 lol... Nov 17 23:36:54 ScaredyCat: i invite spam Nov 17 23:37:08 whenever i need to register somewhere shady i just do sitename@doombox.org Nov 17 23:37:23 I can forward it if you like :) Nov 17 23:37:27 and when they get annoying with spam i just add them to the ignore list :< Nov 17 23:37:40 ScaredyCat: no, i will have to add stuff to ignore lists then :( Nov 17 23:37:59 yes, but spammers are catching on, so you'll get mail to: Nov 17 23:38:02 fdgGFG@doombox.org Nov 17 23:38:08 GordonSmith@doombox.org Nov 17 23:38:14 JoeEvans@@doombox.org Nov 17 23:38:16 etc Nov 17 23:38:45 I think they just threw a book of names at my email address :( Nov 17 23:38:53 mailserver Nov 17 23:43:14 hehe Nov 17 23:43:26 They do that. Nov 17 23:44:41 My domain isnt exactly the most visited thing Nov 17 23:44:41 so Nov 17 23:44:47 i'm pretty non-spammed Nov 18 00:16:21 flexd, did you get qemu working in ubuntu? Nov 18 00:19:39 webjames: no, same error Nov 18 00:20:01 it's a kernel issue as far as the wiki says Nov 18 00:20:19 there's a bug report submitted, didnt you read the link you linked me? Nov 18 00:20:23 sent me* Nov 18 00:20:37 yeah, i just didn't know if you'd found a work around Nov 18 00:20:57 Haven't tried Nov 18 00:21:03 try upgrading/downgrading kernel Nov 18 00:21:11 if the kernel is the issue that would hopefully fix it? :/ Nov 18 00:22:47 okay, cheers Nov 18 00:25:16 openmoko-today is complaining that couldn't connect to the dbus daemon Nov 18 00:25:33 and then comains that it couldn't use dbus-launch to launch a new one Nov 18 00:25:49 dbus is running and working (I can subscribe to it) Nov 18 00:26:02 and dbus-launch launches a new one just fine Nov 18 00:26:19 wait, now I can't Nov 18 00:26:26 dbus-monitor doesn't go Nov 18 00:27:19 reinstall, reboot... try again Nov 18 00:36:04 the windows fix for everything D: Nov 18 00:37:47 doesn't really work anyways Nov 18 00:38:25 [pid 1136] execve("/usr/bin/dbus-launch", ["dbus-launch", "--autolaunch", "8aafe703e2f05f238495400046c8cc00", "--binary-syntax"], [/* 12 vars */]) = 0 Nov 18 00:38:35 Autolaunch requested, but X11 support not compiled in.\nCannot continue. Nov 18 00:38:52 why does dbus depend on X11? Nov 18 00:39:07 this is me trying to start dbus-monitor Nov 18 00:39:12 which last I checked.... hold on Nov 18 00:39:39 yes, last I checked 3 seconds ago dbus-monitor is a line based app Nov 18 00:47:52 okay, the dbus autolaunch must be the secondary problem Nov 18 00:48:05 still, why are we trying to autolaunch... wonder if I can diable that somehow Nov 18 00:52:28 .j spp-wifi Nov 18 01:11:24 will i be able to use 3G with the GTA02 ? Nov 18 01:11:35 no Nov 18 01:11:44 well, not 3g networks (umts) Nov 18 01:11:51 only gsm 2g, gprs (2.5g) Nov 18 01:12:30 if the 3g network also does gsm-2g, that'll work Nov 18 01:12:34 but it won't work in japan Nov 18 01:13:04 since the only gsm in japan is gsm 3g Nov 18 01:13:21 i think thats the only country with that odd setup though ... Nov 18 01:13:55 japan always was odd for phones Nov 18 01:14:04 until gsm 3g they had their own proprietary system(s) Nov 18 01:14:12 even different telcos had different systems entirely Nov 18 01:14:15 nod Nov 18 01:14:23 japan uses gsm 3g? Nov 18 01:14:23 phones are 100% tied to the network carriers Nov 18 01:14:26 I didn't even know Nov 18 01:14:41 I mean, these days... I knew aobut the old setup Nov 18 01:14:42 it is illegal to unlock phones in japan - its a criminal offence and you can (and will) be jailed for it Nov 18 01:14:46 well vodafone/softbank is rolling out a umts network Nov 18 01:14:53 ahh Nov 18 01:14:53 some of the carriers support it Nov 18 01:15:05 softbank and docomo foma support it Nov 18 01:15:50 au does not, neither does willcom (or tu-ka though they are just an au stooge) Nov 18 01:16:04 but if the 3g network does gsm-2g, will i get the 3g speed ? or will it be gsm slow speed Nov 18 01:16:15 no you won't Nov 18 01:16:33 for phone calls and sms it doesnt matter Nov 18 01:16:51 mm foma migrated to umts compatibility Nov 18 01:16:53 it wasn't originally Nov 18 01:17:02 anrp: they have it now Nov 18 01:17:12 indeed D: Nov 18 01:17:18 i have no 3g phone to test it with though ... Nov 18 01:17:19 if you go to japan with a foreign phone that does 3g u may get either fostbank or docomo Nov 18 01:17:41 raster: true Nov 18 01:17:44 i have a semi-broken samsung gsm phone Nov 18 01:17:45 ~_~ Nov 18 01:17:46 :/ Nov 18 01:17:57 had it for years ... Nov 18 01:18:03 still works Nov 18 01:18:04 mostly ~_~ Nov 18 01:25:43 anyone know about dbus in moko? I'm having troubles with it Nov 18 02:09:31 hum... the buildhost is back Nov 18 02:09:34 but the stuffs in the snapshot folder is very old Nov 18 02:09:45 well, I better rebuild the image by myself **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 18 02:59:56 2007