**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 21 02:59:56 2007
Nov 21 04:00:43 <hachi> om
Nov 21 05:15:45 <atul> how to use tooltip in Gtktreeview model
Nov 21 05:17:55 <orospakr> so, yeah, what's the story these days on the GSM modem flakiness, including enabling 850 MHz and the pesky 3G SIM cards?
Nov 21 05:18:19 * orospakr hasn't managed to make a single call with his GTA 01.
Nov 21 05:20:01 <mmontour> orospakr: Check "Community Updates" on the wiki. 850 MHz won't happen for GTA01, the 3G is fixed but end users can't update their own firmware
Nov 21 05:20:18 <orospakr> mmontour: yeah, that's what I saw.
Nov 21 05:20:26 <orospakr> I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't have done GTA 01.
Nov 21 05:21:01 <mmontour> You're in an 850-only area?
Nov 21 05:21:22 <orospakr> Shame on me for not taking the "development hardware" message seriously enough.  I mostly thought that any incompleteness would be on the application processor side, and that the GSM and phone hardware itself would be pretty close.
Nov 21 05:21:56 <orospakr> mmontour: actually no, afaik, but my modem always appears to die on registration: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=911
Nov 21 05:22:05 <orospakr> (the comments don't appear to be about the same problem, btw)
Nov 21 05:22:44 <mmontour> If you have the 3G problem you can send your phone back to OpenMoko (in California) and they'll flash it for you
Nov 21 05:23:01 <orospakr> yeah, I don't think it's that, actually - the two cards I tested it with are more than 2 years old.
Nov 21 05:23:18 <orospakr> no one from OpenMoko so much as triaged my bug though, which annoyed me a little
Nov 21 05:25:57 * orospakr is about to try a build from today, on the off-chance the problem was somehow related to the application processor stuff
Nov 21 05:33:19 <mbuf> what is wrong with this .bb file? http://pastebin.ca/792159, it doesn't run autogen.sh and build the package 
Nov 21 05:36:18 <atul> Openmok build 2007.2 Failed check out here http://pastebin.ca/792162
Nov 21 05:38:38 <CM> orospakr: I wasn't able to call reliably with my GTA01 until 3 days ago
Nov 21 05:39:05 <mbuf> "inherit autotools" in .bb file will not invoke autogen.sh script? it requires Makefile.am?
Nov 21 05:46:32 <orospakr> CM: I just downloaded the image from the 13th
Nov 21 05:46:36 <orospakr> is that a known good?
Nov 21 05:46:43 <CM> Nope
Nov 21 05:46:47 <CM> Didn't work at all for me
Nov 21 05:46:57 <orospakr> hm, so I need to rebuild with mokomakefile?
Nov 21 05:47:13 <CM> Either that, or take mine: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/
Nov 21 05:47:25 <orospakr> heh, thanks. :)
Nov 21 05:47:35 <CM> It's just the standard openmoko images, built on sunday eve
Nov 21 05:48:26 <CM> It has the latest revision of gsmd and it's the first time I've been able to call and recieve calls straight after booting :)
Nov 21 07:42:06 <flexd> hmmm
Nov 21 07:42:34 <hachi> bleeeehhhhhhh
Nov 21 07:42:39 <hachi> new glibc
Nov 21 07:42:53 <hachi> waiting hours for my build to happen again it seems :\
Nov 21 07:43:33 <CM> What's wrong?
Nov 21 07:44:05 <hachi> u-boot won't let my phone boot like 95% of the time
Nov 21 07:44:11 <hachi> so I'm hoping something... anything
Nov 21 07:44:21 <CM> Ouch.. :(
Nov 21 07:44:21 <hachi> will just nudge the timing a bit so it boots a little more often
Nov 21 07:44:34 <hachi> I'm so tired of holding the power button down ;)
Nov 21 07:44:37 <CM> I never power mine off
Nov 21 07:45:10 <mmontour> hachi: are you going into the u-boot menu with the Aux button, then booting from there?
Nov 21 07:45:21 <hachi> no, trying to just let it boot
Nov 21 07:45:37 <hachi> cause the aux button is harder to hold than the power button 
Nov 21 07:45:53 <CM> hachi: Hmm.. Is your uboot-env ok?
Nov 21 07:46:17 <mmontour> Try it from the Aux menu. There is a known bug with some uboots if you just boot normally (don't remember the number)
Nov 21 07:46:22 <hachi> do I need to purge it between flashes? I haven't seen anything about that
Nov 21 07:46:48 <CM> hachi: No, don't touch the uboot_env
Nov 21 07:46:59 <CM> I did, and now I do have some problems.. 
Nov 21 07:47:01 <hachi> righto :)
Nov 21 07:47:19 <CM> Or rather, a bad uboot wrote a kernel over it
Nov 21 07:47:42 <CM> And now I don't get that nice uboot menu so I can get the usb console and all that
Nov 21 07:47:56 <hachi> usb console never did anything for me
Nov 21 07:48:00 <hachi> I tried it about 20 times
Nov 21 07:48:23 <CM> Heh
Nov 21 07:49:00 <torpor> hachi: clean your NAND.
Nov 21 07:49:29 <torpor> usb console is important
Nov 21 07:49:32 <torpor> you should have it.
Nov 21 07:49:47 <torpor> all you guys with faulty uboots need to beware, and put a known-good one on there, and leave it there.
Nov 21 07:50:11 <hachi> I could go back to the august image, that one worked well
Nov 21 07:50:19 <hachi> or I could use yours CM... huurrrrrr
Nov 21 07:51:07 <mmontour> torpor: problem is there is no "good" one - you have to pick which bugs you can live with :)
Nov 21 07:51:55 <CM> hachi: The one I use, and that's on the net is built by ScaredyCat. He used it for a long while too
Nov 21 07:52:05 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 21 07:52:56 <torpor> may
Nov 21 07:53:08 <torpor> yeah use scaredy's..
Nov 21 07:53:33 <hachi> okay, for giggles
Nov 21 07:54:18 <hachi> what is the usb console supposed to do? I assumed it was supposed to redirect the linux console to show up overthe USB ACM device. Mostly because the console of u-boot is always available via the ACM device as far as I can see
Nov 21 07:54:41 <CM> hachi: Is it? How new uboot do you use now?
Nov 21 07:55:20 <hachi> "set console to usb" makes the phone show 'press aux to return to ..' and then it returns to the main menu a few seconds later
Nov 21 07:55:28 <mmontour> The alternative to usb-console is that the uboot console is on the debug-board serial port
Nov 21 07:55:31 <hachi> no change in output on the ACM usb device is seen at all
Nov 21 07:55:39 <hachi> oh
Nov 21 07:55:42 <hachi> I see
Nov 21 07:55:49 <CM> I don't get any usb ACM otherwise
Nov 21 07:56:03 <hachi> so the thing is, I don't have a debug board, so I never set it to serial
Nov 21 07:56:10 <hachi> I figured, no need to choose that :)
Nov 21 07:56:14 <CM> Just can't use cu or minicom 
Nov 21 07:56:39 <hachi> use cu or minicom to what end?
Nov 21 07:56:40 <CM> If your uboot is later than october 15th, usb console is default
Nov 21 07:56:49 <CM> To connect to uboot over usb
Nov 21 07:57:01 <hachi> mmm
Nov 21 07:57:22 <hachi> I use screen as my tty endpoint
Nov 21 07:57:38 <hachi>  :)
Nov 21 07:57:41 <CM> I haven't tried that, I just use screen as screen..
Nov 21 07:57:54 * CM <- in a screened irssi
Nov 21 07:58:17 <hachi> yeah, I'm in screen too
Nov 21 07:58:37 <torpor> you can connect to u-boot over USB to issue u-boot console commands .. its quite useful.
Nov 21 07:59:16 <hachi> could I get a hint as to the path to scardycat's u-boot perchance?
Nov 21 07:59:47 <hachi> or a hint as to how I should find it
Nov 21 08:00:05 <CM> hachi: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/
Nov 21 08:00:21 <CM> That's what's on my phone right now
Nov 21 08:05:58 <hachi> nope... guess I'm headed back to the august image
Nov 21 08:10:46 <hachi> :(
Nov 21 08:11:03 <hachi> buildhost went down again
Nov 21 08:11:21 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 21 08:50:03 <atul>  http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/
Nov 21 08:51:06 <CM> atul: ? :)
Nov 21 08:51:35 <atul> CM, sorry by mistake i check it and bymistak past here
Nov 21 08:51:55 <CM> No problem, just wondered 
Nov 21 09:18:00 <ScaredyCat> has someone cocked up svn again ?
Nov 21 09:19:05 <XorA> ScaredyCat: in what way?
Nov 21 09:19:42 <ScaredyCat> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default'
Nov 21 09:19:58 <XorA> ScaredyCat: what bb file?
Nov 21 09:20:05 <ScaredyCat> iirc that's caused by permissions issue on the server..
Nov 21 09:20:16 <ScaredyCat> openmoko svn - not a .bb file
Nov 21 09:20:58 <XorA> hmm, I just pulled from there 40 mins ago
Nov 21 09:22:06 <ScaredyCat> can you try again, from the openmoko dir, just a svn up 
Nov 21 09:22:26 <atul> CM, I still stuck with the Gtk Treeview tooltip please give some solution 
Nov 21 09:23:48 <XorA> ScaredyCat: yes, just did, worked
Nov 21 09:24:01 <ScaredyCat> :/
Nov 21 09:24:03 <XorA> Updated to revision 3462.
Nov 21 09:24:12 <ScaredyCat> still failing for me here :(
Nov 21 09:24:25 <XorA> sounds like you have a http proxy in the way
Nov 21 09:24:35 <XorA> we used to get that at Wolfson due to crappy bloxx proxy
Nov 21 09:25:13 <ScaredyCat> no proxy here...
Nov 21 09:26:40 <XorA> your ISP being dingbats?
Nov 21 09:28:31 <ScaredyCat> A&A are pretty dang good tbh
Nov 21 09:28:44 <ScaredyCat> they're not you average numpties
Nov 21 09:29:48 <neenaoffline> stand by time of GTA01 ?
Nov 21 09:30:01 <josch> 17h
Nov 21 09:31:39 <ScaredyCat> can somone else give it a go too... CM ?
Nov 21 09:35:23 <neenaoffline> no one knows which date GTA02 is going to release(date)
Nov 21 09:35:53 <flexd> does anyone know how many gta02 there will be made?
Nov 21 09:36:14 <flexd> at first release i mean, compared to how many that wants one and all..
Nov 21 09:40:25 <XorA> neenaoffline: I had mine in standby and it died somewhere between 24-26 hours
Nov 21 09:40:49 <neenaoffline> hmmm
Nov 21 09:41:06 <neenaoffline> and GTA02 will live longer AFAIK, right ?
Nov 21 09:43:01 <CM> ScaredyCat: I started a build 25 minutes ago, no problems
Nov 21 09:43:22 <jeddy3> neenaoffline, GTA02 has a larger capacity battery, yes
Nov 21 09:43:46 <neenaoffline> but may not live longer ?
Nov 21 09:43:51 <jeddy3> neenaoffline, 1700mAh as opposed to 1200mAh if i recall correctly
Nov 21 09:43:59 <jeddy3> neenaoffline, yes it will :)
Nov 21 09:44:03 <neenaoffline> yeah
Nov 21 09:44:42 <jeddy3> GTA01 should also get longer batterytime, as powersaving functions get more refined
Nov 21 09:45:05 <neenaoffline> hmmm
Nov 21 09:46:54 <jeddy3> neenaoffline, but youll also have to consider WIFI chip, another GPS chip in GTA02, etc, which will make it harder to make a calculation on how long it will last as opposed to GTA01
Nov 21 09:47:21 <neenaoffline> I could switch them off right?
Nov 21 09:47:29 <jeddy3> neenaoffline, sure
Nov 21 09:49:47 <jeddy3> neenaoffline,  but there is the reason for not just saying that GTA02 will have longer batterytime...it will however have a larger capacity battery :)
Nov 21 09:50:09 <neenaoffline> :)
Nov 21 09:51:03 <neenaoffline> and how many days would it take to deliver, when it is out ?
Nov 21 09:52:32 <CM> neenaoffline: Depends on where you are located
Nov 21 09:53:01 <CM> neenaoffline: The gta01 took about 10 days to get to Sweden :)
Nov 21 09:53:12 <neenaoffline> India
Nov 21 09:53:33 <neenaoffline> but if it ships before 25th dec, I could get it in the US
Nov 21 09:54:13 <CM> Ah, ok. Too bad, my guess is that it will not be ready before january
Nov 21 09:54:56 <neenaoffline> :( hmm
Nov 21 09:55:17 <jeddy3> my guess also :|
Nov 21 09:59:12 <flexd> I'm an optimist, so im guessing it's done tomorrow!
Nov 21 09:59:25 <CM> Hehe
Nov 21 09:59:27 <flexd> Then we all celebrate and get incredibly drunk and happy trough the entire christmas month
Nov 21 10:01:41 <neenaoffline> heh
Nov 21 10:02:58 <jeddy3> :)
Nov 21 10:20:39 * ScaredyCat talks to the network nazi
Nov 21 10:23:56 <Tm_T> erm
Nov 21 10:24:15 <Tm_T> ScaredyCat: quite light usage of nazi word there
Nov 21 10:24:28 <zash> ScaredyCat: BOFG?
Nov 21 10:24:47 <ScaredyCat> no...
Nov 21 10:24:53 <ScaredyCat> mr port blocker
Nov 21 10:25:07 <zash> Bastard Operator From Germany?
Nov 21 10:25:48 <Kliment_> plenty of those
Nov 21 10:26:04 <ScaredyCat> like I said, no, mr port blocker..
Nov 21 10:26:17 <ScaredyCat> but he says it's not :/
Nov 21 10:26:33 * ScaredyCat just blames XorA
Nov 21 10:27:19 * XorA shoots ScaredyCat 
Nov 21 10:30:26 * flexd grab ScaredyCat and XorA by their collars and puts them in the battlecage
Nov 21 10:30:33 <flexd> 3, 2, 1, FIGHT!
Nov 21 10:31:00 <ScaredyCat> !googlefight ScaredyCat XorA
Nov 21 10:31:01 <cdbot2> Google fights should be the format of 'random vs predictable'
Nov 21 10:31:10 <ScaredyCat> !googlefight ScaredyCat vs XorA
Nov 21 10:31:11 <cdbot2> By results on Google: XorA beats ScaredyCat by 370,000 to 24,700!
Nov 21 10:31:15 <ScaredyCat> :/
Nov 21 10:31:17 * XorA does the superplex on ScaredyCat followed by a 5 * frog splash
Nov 21 10:31:24 <flexd> !googlefight flexd vs ScaredyCat 
Nov 21 10:31:25 <cdbot2> By results on Google: ScaredyCat beats flexd by 23,800 to 14,000!
Nov 21 10:31:30 <flexd> :(
Nov 21 10:31:40 * flexd divides by 0
Nov 21 10:32:53 <XorA> ScaredyCat: large update of openmoko just committed
Nov 21 10:34:35 <flexd> uhm
Nov 21 10:34:47 <flexd> What trickery is needed to get the latest openmoko image in on qmemu?
Nov 21 10:39:51 <CM> flexd: make qemu-local
Nov 21 10:41:17 <flexd> ah, that's a tiny amount of trikery.. :o, awsome
Nov 21 10:41:29 <borg_> :)
Nov 21 10:41:59 <flexd> uhm, should i have X available when running this? Or does it just build the qemu stuff and not run it? (i'm on ssh atm)
Nov 21 10:42:19 <CM> flexd: For me it doesn't build unless I have X
Nov 21 10:42:26 <CM> Not in screen either
Nov 21 10:42:26 <flexd> hmm k
Nov 21 10:42:31 <flexd> let's hope with works with freenx then
Nov 21 10:42:32 <CM> Think it's some SDL issue
Nov 21 10:43:09 <flexd> it seems to be running it now :/
Nov 21 10:43:23 <borg_> for me it builds in screen
Nov 21 10:43:44 <balrog-kun> SDL support aalib :)
Nov 21 10:43:51 <balrog-kun> *supports
Nov 21 10:44:39 * CM tries
Nov 21 10:45:21 <borg_> i always make my builds from work per ssh in a screen session of my pc
Nov 21 10:45:25 <borg_> never had problems
Nov 21 10:45:45 <flexd> hm
Nov 21 10:46:03 <flexd> trying screen now then
Nov 21 10:46:09 <CM> borg_: Me too, all the time
Nov 21 10:46:12 <flexd> stupid nxserver broke again :8
Nov 21 10:46:23 <flexd> suddenly cant start the session now, stupid thing :/
Nov 21 10:48:17 <flexd> screen doesnt work either :/
Nov 21 10:48:32 <flexd> "U-boot failed to finish writing in nand write.jffs2 0x3100000 rootfx 0x10000 seconds, giving up"
Nov 21 10:48:34 <balrog-kun> screen doesn't make any difference
Nov 21 10:48:52 <CM> It only failed here on U-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up.
Nov 21 10:49:34 <flexd> same thing happens if i try to compile it here on my ubuntu laptop too
Nov 21 10:49:43 <flexd> what is *really* weird though
Nov 21 10:49:45 <flexd> oh nevermind
Nov 21 10:49:46 <flexd> damnit
Nov 21 10:49:57 <flexd> I found out why freenx didnt work atleast >_>
Nov 21 10:50:05 <flexd> i need a old old nxclient to be able to connect to it
Nov 21 10:54:50 <flexd> even weirder, it still fails to do it when i do it trough nx
Nov 21 10:56:40 <balrog-kun> why should nx make any difference?
Nov 21 10:59:04 <flexd> because i can run X programs like a normal machine if im connected to nx?
Nov 21 10:59:25 <flexd> Wasnt that the problem? that it cant open X windows? Or did i completely misread something here
Nov 21 11:00:35 <balrog-kun> i think it doesn't care about X
Nov 21 11:01:10 <bedboi> hi there.
Nov 21 11:04:57 <CM> XorA: What's up with the buildhost.openmoko btw? Is there anyone responsible for it who can give it a kick? :)
Nov 21 11:05:39 <XorA> CM: I shall give him a kick, what is missing?
Nov 21 11:05:57 <CM> XorA: Just wondering about building the images
Nov 21 11:06:06 <CM> Latest rootfs is from the 16th
Nov 21 11:06:26 <XorA> CM: that'll just be the last time mickey kicked a build
Nov 21 11:06:35 <CM> Ah, ok
Nov 21 11:07:22 <CM> Doing a build now with your updated scr_revs, will be nice to try :)
Nov 21 11:08:16 <XorA> its a nice improvment
Nov 21 11:16:06 <flexd> uhm
Nov 21 11:16:11 <flexd> i just got a 404 doing make qemu
Nov 21 11:16:28 <flexd> from buildhost, something seems to be missing :/
Nov 21 11:16:49 <flexd> index.html ? :O
Nov 21 11:27:57 <atul>     /stats p
Nov 21 11:34:02 <ScaredyCat> this is just stupid..
Nov 21 11:34:09 <ScaredyCat> I get get there with a browser...
Nov 21 11:34:16 <ScaredyCat> I just can't svn up ...
Nov 21 11:34:21 <ScaredyCat> there's no proxy 
Nov 21 11:34:28 <ScaredyCat> the'res no blocking..
Nov 21 11:34:44 * ScaredyCat puts XorA in a vat of kippers
Nov 21 11:35:09 * XorA freezes the kippers and uses them as missiles
Nov 21 11:46:15 <roh> ScaredyCat hm. i also have problems.. were working on it.
Nov 21 11:46:21 <roh> builhost is unreliable atm
Nov 21 11:46:34 <ScaredyCat> ahhh .. so not me then,,,
Nov 21 11:47:24 <CM> Weird that I've completed two builds today without problems
Nov 21 11:47:50 <ScaredyCat> maybe we need to clone the svn repo in europe and the us
Nov 21 11:48:17 <CM> euromoko ftw ;)
Nov 21 11:48:35 <raster> euroko
Nov 21 11:49:24 <ScaredyCat> i ws thinking more , iminurmokocloninurfiles
Nov 21 11:51:21 <ScaredyCat> i'll get me coat...
Nov 21 11:52:04 <CM> ScaredyCat: Heh, I had this discussion at Volvo 3 months ago: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002222371121.gif
Nov 21 11:52:42 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 21 11:52:50 * CM still doesn't have a backup server
Nov 21 11:53:35 <roh> ScaredyCat the openmoko-infrastructure is already in europe
Nov 21 11:54:07 <roh> ScaredyCat we have some extra for taiwan. (latency) but the main stuff for public use is in europa
Nov 21 11:54:25 <ScaredyCat> :o
Nov 21 11:54:33 <ScaredyCat> on the end of wet string?
Nov 21 11:55:30 <ScaredyCat> CM: I'd leave... in January or somehting
Nov 21 11:55:33 <ScaredyCat> ;)
Nov 21 11:56:03 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hehe
Nov 21 12:04:29 * CM keeps an eye on the .deb discussion in #oe
Nov 21 12:05:35 <mmazur> Anything interesting?
Nov 21 12:09:15 <CM> mmazur: Just about oe building debs instead of ipkgs
Nov 21 12:09:55 <CM> Wonder how that would work with openmoko. Not that I've had any problems with ipkg yet
Nov 21 12:10:15 <zash> whats the diff?
Nov 21 12:10:59 <CM> zash: ipk is some limited version of a deb, supposedly
Nov 21 12:11:38 <mbuf> can anyone post (in pastebin.ca or related) the default ~/moko/setup-env and ~/moko/local/conf/site.conf contents?
Nov 21 12:11:56 <mbuf> that is generated by a successful build
Nov 21 12:13:43 <CM> mbuf: http://rafb.net/p/JMDq8I48.html
Nov 21 12:14:18 <mbuf> CM, thanks!
Nov 21 12:14:58 <mbuf> CM, developers have to update variables in these files for local/package overlay method
Nov 21 12:15:43 <CM> Ok, I haven't touched them
Nov 21 12:16:51 <mbuf> CM, yes, just documenting it
Nov 21 12:18:06 <CM> :)
Nov 21 13:07:03 <hon> I read in the wiki that GTA02 is supposed to have accelerometers. Are digital compasses also considered to be included as well?
Nov 21 13:07:08 <SpeedEvil> no
Nov 21 13:07:23 <hon> Why not? GTA03 or never?
Nov 21 13:07:48 <SpeedEvil> Also - the accelerometers basically only give you the way 'down' is. They cannot be used for other purposes practially due to thier (in)accuracy.
Nov 21 13:08:13 <SpeedEvil> because it'd be an extra $8 or so on cost, $15 or so on price - for one.
Nov 21 13:09:25 <hon> We haven't started yet, but are looking for a [future] device with both accelerometers and compasses.
Nov 21 13:09:50 <hon> maybe if we can produce reasonable results you would consider including them
Nov 21 13:09:53 <SpeedEvil> what do you want to do with it?
Nov 21 13:10:12 <hon> New ways of user interaction, in a nutshell
Nov 21 13:10:22 <SpeedEvil> and you do know that even the best accelerometers have an inaccuracy of 1cm/s^2
Nov 21 13:10:56 <hon> I think that will work out
Nov 21 13:11:38 <hon> I guess we won't need that much accuracy, at least for the beginning
Nov 21 13:11:55 <SpeedEvil> I wrote http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals which may be of use
Nov 21 13:12:08 <hon> I am aware of that
Nov 21 13:12:35 <Tronic> How fast are digital compasses?
Nov 21 13:12:37 <SpeedEvil> It'd be so nice if current accels were a couple of orders of magnitude better.
Nov 21 13:12:42 <SpeedEvil> Tronic: kilohertz
Nov 21 13:12:43 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3463 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): 
Nov 21 13:12:43 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (moko_dialer_sms_finalize),
Nov 21 13:12:43 <CIA-14> (store_sms), (moko_dialer_sms_send):
Nov 21 13:12:43 <CIA-14> Fix compiler warnings, check the source exists before trying to
Nov 21 13:12:43 <CIA-14> destroy it on finalize
Nov 21 13:13:07 <Tronic> SpeedEvil: Woah. Any precise at that rate?
Nov 21 13:13:21 <SpeedEvil> Tronic: basically as precise as normal as I understand it
Nov 21 13:13:24 <rangen> SpeedEvil: one typo "aceleration" (cant bother to login)
Nov 21 13:13:37 <SpeedEvil> meh
Nov 21 13:13:46 <SpeedEvil> then I can't be bothered either. 
Nov 21 13:14:20 <hon> MEMS accels are pretty young. They will improve in time if there is any real demand.
Nov 21 13:14:33 <SpeedEvil> They're not that young - 15 years?
Nov 21 13:15:03 <SpeedEvil> and oddly - they have only improved by a factor of two or so in terms of noise since the ADXL202 - which were amongst the first
Nov 21 13:15:12 <SpeedEvil> noise/fundamental sensitivity
Nov 21 13:16:21 <rangen> would it be possible to build small gyroscope in embedded device?
Nov 21 13:16:28 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 21 13:16:36 <SpeedEvil> you get those - $20-$30 per axis
Nov 21 13:17:00 <SpeedEvil> maybe $10-$15 in bulk
Nov 21 13:17:15 <rangen> would those be accurate as they are in ship navigation systems etc?
Nov 21 13:17:35 <SpeedEvil> no - they drift at degree/minute worst case typically
Nov 21 13:17:58 <SpeedEvil> If you can live with a large unit, that's not MEMS, you can get better accuracy.
Nov 21 13:19:47 <CM> SpeedEvil: I bothered, fixed some spelling errors :)
Nov 21 13:19:57 <SpeedEvil> :) 
Nov 21 13:20:20 <CM> Thanks for the page too, I didn't know that much about accelerometers before 
Nov 21 13:20:43 <SpeedEvil> It's probably got some bugs - but it's a basic overview
Nov 21 13:20:56 <CM> Good enough for me :)
Nov 21 13:21:46 <SpeedEvil> sparkfun.com has guros and compass chips with datasheets
Nov 21 13:21:49 <SpeedEvil> err
Nov 21 13:21:50 <SpeedEvil> gyros
Nov 21 13:22:36 <rangen> here is one interesting use case for accelerometer: http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mara/index.html
Nov 21 13:24:16 <SpeedEvil> fun
Nov 21 13:24:21 <SpeedEvil> there are all sorts
Nov 21 13:25:04 <hon> How about 18mg resolution?
Nov 21 13:25:14 <SpeedEvil> hon: ?
Nov 21 13:25:30 <hon> 0.18 m/s^
Nov 21 13:25:30 <SpeedEvil> you mean the accelerometers thought to be in the neo2A?
Nov 21 13:25:40 <hon> no, another one
Nov 21 13:25:44 <SpeedEvil> yes - that's not especially great
Nov 21 13:25:49 <hon> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/13951.pdf
Nov 21 13:26:12 <SpeedEvil> 1mg is typical for most other aceclerometers over an integration time of 1s or so
Nov 21 13:26:23 <CM> I'll be happy just to shake my GTA02 and get a shuffeled playlist in the mediaplayer ;)
Nov 21 13:27:21 <hon> Even with the unaccurate accelerometers I can have today, there are plenty things I can do ...
Nov 21 13:27:26 <SpeedEvil> indeed.
Nov 21 13:27:54 <SpeedEvil> hon: look up the one mentioned on the technical:accel page - the AD part that's used on the wii for example of a more accurate one 
Nov 21 13:28:48 <hon> ADXL330? Isn't it less accurate than the ST one?
Nov 21 13:31:55 <hon> imagine pointing a direction with your device (accel + compass), doing things by specially moving your device (accel), ...
Nov 21 13:32:33 <CM> Like a wii-mote :)
Nov 21 13:32:44 <hon> wiimote has a sensor bar for that
Nov 21 13:32:48 <CM> (but without the ir, I know)
Nov 21 13:33:10 <hon> imagine pointing a direction and asking google maps to produce a list of shops in that direction
Nov 21 13:34:13 <SpeedEvil> hon: no - 330uG/sqrt(hz) noise
Nov 21 13:34:51 <SpeedEvil> so 1Hz gets you .33mg, 10Hz 1mg, ...
Nov 21 13:36:40 <cjb_ie> google maps? openstreetmap for teh win - then you can add any shops it's missing :)
Nov 21 13:37:13 <cjb_ie> (which admittedly for many areas at the moment will be... all of them :)
Nov 21 13:40:32 <hon> SpeedEvil: about including a compass, do you think 1) it won't happen for GTA02, 2) not even GTA03, 3) can be considered if there is a reasonable application for it ?
Nov 21 13:41:25 <SpeedEvil> It absolutely won't happen for 02
Nov 21 13:41:44 <hon> (we might be able to produce and publish results in ~2 months)
Nov 21 13:41:50 <SpeedEvil> as to 03 - a very powerful case would have to be made for something that boosts the price by $15 or so
Nov 21 13:42:22 <SpeedEvil> maybe as little as $10 - but it's still not really trivial.
Nov 21 13:43:24 <hon> btw, does the GPS module produce any useful direction information?
Nov 21 13:43:33 <hon> at least for outdoors
Nov 21 13:43:34 <SpeedEvil> not when you're not mobing
Nov 21 13:43:44 <SpeedEvil> it produces heading but not pointing info
Nov 21 13:44:02 * SpeedEvil wanders away.
Nov 21 13:44:04 <SpeedEvil> Wave.
Nov 21 13:44:08 <hon> thanks
Nov 21 13:44:32 <hon> I hope someday it is included.
Nov 21 13:44:48 * hon waves
Nov 21 13:58:03 * CM pets ScaredyCat 
Nov 21 13:58:29 * mwester wonders why the topic is telling us about ScaredyCat's bits.
Nov 21 13:58:47 <ScaredyCat> mneh!
Nov 21 13:58:47 <CM> mwester: http://blog.automated.it/2007/11/21/here-i-am-right-here/
Nov 21 13:59:24 <CM> mwester: Btw, I just got a bugreport here at Volvo from "mwester"
Nov 21 13:59:46 <mwester> What?! Someone has stolen my identity?!  :o
Nov 21 13:59:48 <CM> Was Maria Westerlind or something, but still mwester@volvocars.com ;)
Nov 21 14:00:34 <mwester> I'll have to send an injunction to Maria, I think.  :(
Nov 21 14:00:38 <mwester> :P :D
Nov 21 14:00:48 <CM> Hehe
Nov 21 14:01:51 <mwester> ScaredyCat:  re: your blog -- I too drive many hours just to avoid being a slave to the airline schedules, and the wife also worries that I'll crash and burn.  An app to check in with position info is perfect for the Neo.
Nov 21 14:02:44 <CM> mwester: I've been doing that too, but for drivning to my gf. Solved by moving there next week ;)
Nov 21 14:02:44 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 21 14:02:56 <cjb_ie> even handier for wives who doubt their husbands' fidelity!
Nov 21 14:03:00 <ScaredyCat> mwester: so I'd have 1 user at least then ;)
Nov 21 14:04:13 <mwester> Yep.  There's an amazing amount of emptiness between cities here in the midwest USA.  Even more as you go westward...
Nov 21 14:06:13 <ScaredyCat> between your ears too...
Nov 21 14:06:16 <ScaredyCat> arf arf
Nov 21 14:06:24 * ScaredyCat runs round mwester
Nov 21 14:27:35 <esben> mickey|berlin: what are the status and plan for meta-toolchain-openmoko ?
Nov 21 14:28:06 <mickey|berlin> esben: toolchain will probably appear within the next 10 days on downloads. together with some first start document
Nov 21 14:28:13 <esben> Shouldn't we be distributing prebuilt toolchains for OpenMoko application developers?
Nov 21 14:28:43 <esben> mickey|berlin: will there be a cygwin toolchain as well? ;-)
Nov 21 14:28:51 <mickey|berlin> no. x86 only is the first step
Nov 21 14:30:06 <esben> I am one recipe away from having a cygwin toolchain built for ppc603e...
Nov 21 14:30:48 <ScaredyCat> are you saying that you're 'one recipe short of a toolchain'? ;)
Nov 21 14:31:25 <esben> yep, I have just gotten gcc-cross-sdk to complete
Nov 21 14:31:37 <esben> only missing the gcc_4.2.2.bb
Nov 21 14:32:39 <apaulsen> XorA: glamo-report-vram-size-to-userspace.patch?
Nov 21 14:32:41 <esben> sorry, bad counting.
Nov 21 14:32:58 <XorA> apaulsen: shit I forgot to push it didnt I
Nov 21 14:33:00 <esben> I am in do_populate_sdk of meta-toolchain :-)
Nov 21 14:33:29 <apaulsen> XorA: looks like it
Nov 21 14:33:47 <XorA> apaulsen: on its way
Nov 21 14:34:32 <XorA> apaulsen: pushed, thanks for the heads up
Nov 21 14:34:42 <esben> mickey|berlin: do you mean qemu toolchain only, or host=linux-x86 target=neo1973 only?
Nov 21 14:35:32 <mickey|berlin> esben: host=linux-x86 target=neo1973 first step. vmware image with qemu installed and everything pre-setup and configured later this year
Nov 21 14:36:00 <esben> mickey|berlin: have you considered virtualbox instead of vmware?
Nov 21 14:36:53 <esben> it is just as high quality as vmware and completely free (as in beer) and have a slightly-stripped free (as in freedom) version.
Nov 21 14:36:59 <buz> i would vote for virtualbox, too
Nov 21 14:37:21 <esben> I am running virtualbox (host=linux virtual=winxp)
Nov 21 14:37:36 <esben> it is really nice stuff, got my laptop freed of win$$
Nov 21 14:37:44 <mickey|berlin> esben: vmware has been decided by upper layers.
Nov 21 14:37:50 <mickey|berlin> vmware player is also free
Nov 21 14:37:57 <buz> but a pain to install
Nov 21 14:38:11 <esben> mickey|berlin: ok, vmware player as target.
Nov 21 14:38:19 <buz> i think you can convert vmdk to vdi tho
Nov 21 14:39:03 <something_here> This project is pretty cool...
Nov 21 14:39:19 <something_here> Is the source java based?
Nov 21 14:39:44 <esben> if you are stuck on a windows host, and don't have access to excessive memory and just want to develop simple applictaions, I am quite sure a lot of people would prefer a cygwin toolchain, and even better pre-integrated with eclipse.
Nov 21 14:40:24 <esben> I am not using either, but there are a lot of people like that.
Nov 21 14:43:27 <apaulsen> XorA: how about the two glamo patches for xserver-kdrive?
Nov 21 14:44:08 <XorA> apaulsen: bollox Im having a bad day, I thought I had done them
Nov 21 14:46:24 <XorA> apaulsen: should be them all pused now sorry
Nov 21 14:47:33 <XorA> wierder and wierder, MacOSX and console pr0n
Nov 21 14:49:40 <apaulsen> XorA: looks like it's building ok now
Nov 21 14:56:26 <zash> hm, qemu doesnt like me anymore
Nov 21 14:56:30 <zash> http://pic.zash.se/Screenshot-QEMU.png
Nov 21 14:57:30 <CM> buz: Why is vmware a pain to install? (I admit that i've only ever installed vmware-server)
Nov 21 14:57:46 <buz> because you have to deal with stupid binary only code
Nov 21 14:58:14 <buz> tho these days i think there is an ubuntu package at least
Nov 21 14:58:43 <CM> zash: I usually get that too before the console starts scrolling by
Nov 21 14:59:09 <CM> buz: In gentoo "emerge vmware-server" works :)
Nov 21 14:59:33 <CM> Should try virtualbox though
Nov 21 14:59:40 <buz> very neat 
Nov 21 14:59:47 <buz> unless you need usb emulation
Nov 21 14:59:52 <buz> in which case i'd stick with vmware
Nov 21 14:59:58 <CM> Ah, ok
Nov 21 15:00:18 <buz> tho supposedly these days it does work with virtualbox
Nov 21 15:00:18 <no_mind> buz, comercial version of vbox provides usb
Nov 21 15:00:35 <buz> no_mind: yeah i remembered something like that
Nov 21 15:00:45 <buz> but i dont use usb in vbox so i dont care one bit
Nov 21 15:00:59 <no_mind> wel i will agree vbox is neet
Nov 21 15:01:07 <no_mind> i wish vbox provided arm emulation
Nov 21 15:01:12 <buz> seamless windows would be very neat, if it actually worked on my hardware :)
Nov 21 15:01:24 <buz> (it seems to limited to something around 1600x1200)
Nov 21 15:01:52 <buz> no_mind: whats wrong with qemu-arm?
Nov 21 15:01:58 <no_mind> buz, it works on my hardware 
Nov 21 15:02:08 <buz> i think it depends on the resolution of your desktop
Nov 21 15:02:15 <buz> if i lower mine to 1280x800 it works here, too
Nov 21 15:02:19 <no_mind> buz, i am unable to install debain-arm eabi port in qemu-arm
Nov 21 15:11:32 * ScaredyCat wonders why CM has issues with vmware......
Nov 21 15:11:49 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3464 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Nov 21 15:11:49 <CIA-14> * configure.ac:
Nov 21 15:11:49 <CIA-14> * Makefile.am:
Nov 21 15:11:49 <CIA-14> Remove libhito
Nov 21 15:11:49 <CIA-14> * src/sms.h:
Nov 21 15:11:50 <CIA-14> * src/sms-contacts.[ch]:
Nov 21 15:11:52 <CIA-14> Replace libhito code with ebook code, implement showing of contact
Nov 21 15:12:15 <ScaredyCat> roh: is that server fixed yet?
Nov 21 15:13:04 <CM> ScaredyCat: I do? Didn't know.. :P
Nov 21 15:13:34 <ScaredyCat>  <CM> buz: Why is vmware a pain to install?
Nov 21 15:14:07 <CM> ScaredyCat: Was a question to 15:37 <buz> but a pain to install
Nov 21 15:14:14 <ScaredyCat> ahhh....
Nov 21 15:14:20 <ScaredyCat> that'll teach me to skim
Nov 21 15:14:20 <CM> I think it works like a charm
Nov 21 15:14:21 <buz> and the answer was "because you have to deal with stupid binary only code"
Nov 21 15:14:26 <nano-> Because it's made of dead kittens?
Nov 21 15:14:28 <CM> :D
Nov 21 15:14:28 <buz> yeah once you got it running, it works
Nov 21 15:14:34 <ScaredyCat> :o
Nov 21 15:14:37 <buz> but why deal with it, if theres a completely opensource equivalent
Nov 21 15:15:11 <ScaredyCat> never had issues here.... vmware is a good choice imho, because it'll work under linux, doze, osx
Nov 21 15:15:12 <CM> I tried to run minix3 in it..
Nov 21 15:15:15 <buz> this way, my kernel is not tainted
Nov 21 15:15:19 <anders_> nano-: Do you have a phone running openmoko at the office?
Nov 21 15:15:24 <buz> ScaredyCat: so does virtualbox
Nov 21 15:15:36 <ScaredyCat> sucks
Nov 21 15:15:45 <buz> ?
Nov 21 15:15:45 <CM> Didn't start..
Nov 21 15:16:11 <CM> And NetBSD kernel paniced my whole comp 3 times, so I gave up on that too
Nov 21 15:16:57 <buz> if i can run XP and linux 2.6, the vm is good enough for me
Nov 21 15:17:17 <CM> Same here
Nov 21 15:18:05 <buz> nooow, if someone actually got a vm with 3d acceleration working
Nov 21 15:18:06 <CM> cpu scaling messed up the time for the guest though, unless you tweak the config files a bit
Nov 21 15:18:08 <ScaredyCat> that's what vmware server is for
Nov 21 15:19:20 <nano-> anders_: yes
Nov 21 15:19:57 <anders_> nano-: Cool, maybe we could install x2r on it today?
Nov 21 15:20:01 <nano-> anders_: yeah
Nov 21 15:23:36 * ScaredyCat pokes XorA|gone
Nov 21 15:27:52 <esben> Damnit! ipkg is broken under cygwin :-(
Nov 21 15:28:05 <esben> at least then I know what to look at tomorrow...
Nov 21 15:28:23 <Stephmw> aha! so there *is* a cygwin user :)
Nov 21 15:28:37 <esben> Stephmw: no, not really
Nov 21 15:29:03 <esben> I am very much a Linux user, but I have a customer that insists on getting a proper cygwin toolchain delivered.
Nov 21 15:29:49 <esben> and as I have "tricked" them into using OE for two of their products, I simply have to get cygwin support for meta-toolchain working :-)
Nov 21 15:30:01 <anrp> ...
Nov 21 15:30:10 * anrp hopes you didn't actually trick them
Nov 21 15:30:44 <esben> no, I actually had never even really looked at OE, I just had an idea of what it was and could be used for.
Nov 21 15:31:28 <esben> so I convinced them to spend 1 day trying to see how far OE could get us, and the next morning I had their target booting an OE image.
Nov 21 15:31:51 <CM> esben: Cool :)
Nov 21 15:31:55 <esben> cygwin then turned up to be the cotcha'...
Nov 21 15:32:34 <anrp> well the other thing you might investigate is installing microsoft's Services for UNIX (SfU)
Nov 21 15:32:47 <anrp> they bought it (from interix?), it provides a good posix subsystem
Nov 21 15:32:52 <esben> But I believe that OpenMoko can benefit from a cygwin stand-alone toolchain, so I want to extend my work for this customer to building an OpenMoko cygwin toolchain.
Nov 21 15:32:53 <anrp> as opposed to the lacking one in the default build
Nov 21 15:33:12 <anrp> its free (beer-wise)
Nov 21 15:33:18 <SpeedEvil> OM cygwin.
Nov 21 15:33:23 <SpeedEvil> Oh the speed!
Nov 21 15:33:30 <esben> SpeedEvil: exactly!
Nov 21 15:33:32 <anrp> windows is way slow at process creation
Nov 21 15:33:38 <anrp> so the mapping of concepts isnt that fast
Nov 21 15:34:05 <anrp> not much to do there ..
Nov 21 15:34:12 <esben> if your computer is to fast that you never have time to fetch coffe.... then start building with cygwin!
Nov 21 15:34:41 * Stephmw gasps
Nov 21 15:35:33 <esben> anyway, if you want to play with a simple application for OpenMoko, then cygwin slowness or not, it could be cool to be able to compile on windows (for those with such tendencies that is)
Nov 21 15:35:40 <Stephmw> esben: the only slowdown I've experienced with cygwin/linux on the same build system was the first used file copies and the 2nd used symlinking
Nov 21 15:36:57 <esben> and if someone would ever glue it together with Eclipse it should be possible to attract more people to develop OpenMoko applications
Nov 21 15:37:20 <anrp> mmm, lots of layers
Nov 21 15:37:36 <zash> hm, is qemu suposed to use 90-95% cpu and do nothing?
Nov 21 15:37:51 <anrp> depends on if its emulating an infinite loop or not :p
Nov 21 15:38:16 <zash> i tried to add a contact, and wrote a 'k' in the name field
Nov 21 15:38:24 <zash> then i pressed backspace
Nov 21 15:38:30 <zash> and nothing happend
Nov 21 15:39:04 <anrp> since k is in openmoko, the letter is dear to the program's heart, and it refused to delete it
Nov 21 15:39:11 <anrp> seems pretty simple ;)
Nov 21 15:39:33 <magumbade> question: how much free space do I need on my hdd in order to compile the entire openmoko project?
Nov 21 15:39:38 <anrp> but honestly, i don't know, you could try ssh'ing in and using gdb
Nov 21 15:39:40 <anrp> or some such
Nov 21 15:40:14 <magumbade> 5.9 GB seems to be not enough
Nov 21 15:44:45 <ScaredyCat> you need more than that
Nov 21 15:44:52 <ScaredyCat> 12gb at peak
Nov 21 15:46:42 <SpeedEvil> magumbade: 12G or more
Nov 21 15:53:59 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3465 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c): 
Nov 21 15:53:59 <CIA-14> * src/sms-contacts.c: (nophoto_filter_func),
Nov 21 15:53:59 <CIA-14> (sms_contacts_page_new):
Nov 21 15:53:59 <CIA-14> Use a filter modify func to set contacts with no photo to the
Nov 21 15:53:59 <CIA-14> stock_person icon
Nov 21 15:59:03 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3466 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 21 15:59:03 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am:
Nov 21 15:59:03 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call),
Nov 21 15:59:03 <CIA-14> (on_pin_requested), (moko_dialer_init):
Nov 21 15:59:03 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.c:
Nov 21 15:59:04 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.h:
Nov 21 15:59:06 <CIA-14> Add new code to request PIN from user
Nov 21 16:05:12 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3467 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c): 
Nov 21 16:05:12 <CIA-14> * src/sms-contacts.c: (contacts_iter_compare_func),
Nov 21 16:05:12 <CIA-14> (sms_contacts_page_new):
Nov 21 16:05:12 <CIA-14> Add a sort function for the contacts
Nov 21 16:09:20 <hrw> svn: PROPFIND of '/!svn/bc/3467/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu': Could not read status line: connection was closed by server. (http://svn.openmoko.org)
Nov 21 16:09:24 <hrw> argh
Nov 21 16:09:32 * ScaredyCat points at roh
Nov 21 16:09:56 <ScaredyCat> basically you just ave to keep trying
Nov 21 16:10:09 <hrw> ScaredyCat: yes, I know
Nov 21 16:10:32 <ScaredyCat> it's only just worked for my and I've been trying all day :/
Nov 21 16:12:44 <hrw> uf. this time it goes
Nov 21 16:13:11 <anrp> best way to work around a DoS: try harder
Nov 21 16:13:14 <anrp> ...er, wait
Nov 21 16:15:59 <shred> hi
Nov 21 16:16:11 <shred> which gstreamer codecs are installer by default?
Nov 21 16:45:04 <sbeh> how hard would it be, to implement the ability to record phone-calls?
Nov 21 16:49:05 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3468 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): 
Nov 21 16:49:05 <CIA-14> * src/sms-notes.c: (get_selected_contact), (page_hidden),
Nov 21 16:49:05 <CIA-14> (sms_notes_data_func), (sms_notes_page_new):
Nov 21 16:49:05 <CIA-14> * src/sms.h:
Nov 21 16:49:05 <CIA-14> Add some code to show avatars/change justification depending on whether
Nov 21 16:49:07 <CIA-14> a message was sent or received (unfinished)
Nov 21 16:55:00 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3469 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am): 
Nov 21 16:55:00 <CIA-14> * src/Makefile.am:
Nov 21 16:55:00 <CIA-14> Remove spurious libhito bits
Nov 21 17:00:52 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3470 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c): 
Nov 21 17:00:52 <CIA-14> * src/sms-notes.c: (sms_notes_page_new):
Nov 21 17:00:52 <CIA-14> Check if no-photo icon is NULL before reffing it
Nov 21 18:00:10 <CM> abraxa_: Hi there. Echoing a question since no one answered before:
Nov 21 18:00:15 <CM> 17:16 <shred> which gstreamer codecs are installer by default?
Nov 21 18:01:29 <abraxa_> Ah thanks for highlighting me ;)
Nov 21 18:02:04 <borg_> where are the packages that are included in the image defined anyway?
Nov 21 18:02:10 <CM> Hehe... I rarely have the answers, but I know who to ask ;)
Nov 21 18:02:21 <borg_> it isnt defined in the openmoko-devel-image.bb
Nov 21 18:02:41 <CM> borg_: I think some are, and the rest gets pulled in by dependencies
Nov 21 18:02:47 <borg_> ah ok
Nov 21 18:02:50 * CM is guessing as usually
Nov 21 18:02:50 <pH5> borg_: task-openmoko.bb, and work from there
Nov 21 18:03:05 <pH5> CM: guessing correctly
Nov 21 18:03:08 <abraxa_> shred: By default you have mp3/vorbis and ffmpeg - however vorbis support is non-functional at this stage and gstreamer video performance is abysmal
Nov 21 18:03:19 <abraxa_> shred: So right now, gstreamer is good for mp3 only
Nov 21 18:03:48 <abraxa_> borg_: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/rootfs/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ is a good place to look at ;)
Nov 21 18:04:31 <josch> abraxa_, no vorbis??
Nov 21 18:05:09 <abraxa_> josch: You can try it and see that it *does* decode and make sound but performance needs to be tweaked badly
Nov 21 18:05:37 <josch> :-(
Nov 21 18:05:48 * josch doesn't want to use mp3...
Nov 21 18:10:09 <abraxa_> josch: Well, you can always use ogg123 for now :)
Nov 21 18:10:25 <josch> wohoo! :-D
Nov 21 18:14:54 <borg_> the neo uses arm5, right?
Nov 21 18:16:33 <abraxa_> ARM4vT if I understand correctly (The SoC is of the ARM920T family)
Nov 21 18:16:37 <josch> armv4t
Nov 21 18:16:41 <borg_> or even arm4
Nov 21 18:16:43 <borg_> ok
Nov 21 18:17:05 <borg_> abraxa_: someone sayed to my that gstreamer uses a lot of g_object_ref() and g_object_unref()
Nov 21 18:17:24 <borg_> which is badly implemented in glib for arm <=5
Nov 21 18:17:28 <borg_> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/atomic-rt.html
Nov 21 18:17:47 <borg_> perhaps there is a performance boost possible
Nov 21 18:17:56 <abraxa_> Ah, Lennart's atomic ops battle :)
Nov 21 18:18:06 <borg_> or is this fud? :)
Nov 21 18:18:34 <abraxa_> I haven't looked into the atomic ops issue myself so I can't really comment
Nov 21 18:18:59 <abraxa_> All I know is that mp3 playback doesn't incur *too* much overhead so I'm sure gstreamer can be made work
Nov 21 18:19:20 <borg_> there is a lot of glib involved in nearly every application of the neo
Nov 21 18:19:25 <borg_> so perhaps it is worth a try
Nov 21 18:19:51 <abraxa_> What is?
Nov 21 18:20:07 <borg_> to implement a arm4 specific version of this function
Nov 21 18:25:45 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3471 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Nov 21 18:25:45 <CIA-14> * src/sms-contacts.c: (sms_contacts_load_photo),
Nov 21 18:25:45 <CIA-14> (clear_numbers_cb), (clear_numbers), (contacts_store),
Nov 21 18:25:45 <CIA-14> (contacts_changed_cb), (contacts_removed_cb),
Nov 21 18:25:45 <CIA-14> (sms_contacts_page_new):
Nov 21 18:25:47 <CIA-14> Maintain a number->contact uid hash table
Nov 21 18:25:49 <CIA-14> * src/sms-contacts.h:
Nov 21 18:45:24 <slomo> abraxa_, borg_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=498810  you should probably get this into your glib if there happens to be a patch at some point :)
Nov 21 18:48:55 <abraxa_> Thanks, though I'm not sure whether gstreamer and/or pulseaudio benefit from improved atomic op handling in glib alone - and whether gstreamer even makes uses of them in the first place
Nov 21 18:49:01 <abraxa_> makes use*
Nov 21 18:58:39 <blinx> moin PBeck 
Nov 21 19:23:33 <denis^da> Has someone resetted the mailing list ? I changed my email adress last week and now I get the mails to my old email address (untill yesterday everything worked fine)
Nov 21 19:28:46 <Moniker42> hey, will the gta02 support 3g in the uk?
Nov 21 19:29:06 <Moniker42> i'm not sure if that's equivalent to EDGE in the us, which the neo site says it will not support
Nov 21 19:29:09 <mickey|ICE1093> no
Nov 21 19:29:40 <edistar> EDGE is also EDGE in the uk
Nov 21 19:29:46 <edistar> also called egprs
Nov 21 19:32:12 <CM> mickey|ICE1093: http://blog.0x63.nu/2007/11/openmoko-xmms2-client.html
Nov 21 19:35:31 <edistar> cool
Nov 21 19:37:26 <mickey|ICE1093>  interesting. i wonder why this wasn't added to openmoko-mediaplayer2 though
Nov 21 19:39:23 <borg_> cool
Nov 21 19:39:43 <mjr> Moniker42, Neo doesn't do 3g, period
Nov 21 19:39:58 <tuukkah> neither 2.5g
Nov 21 19:40:00 <Moniker42> mjr, any particular reason?
Nov 21 19:40:25 <Moniker42> tuukkah, website claims to support 2.5G.... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone
Nov 21 19:41:19 <mjr> Moniker42, any of availability, money, market area etc.
Nov 21 19:41:57 <mjr> G's are marketing bullshit; anyway, that 2.5G means GPRS
Nov 21 19:42:27 <CM> mickey|ICE1093: The video is very nice. (For those that don't have flash: http://people.0x63.nu/~andersg/mov00117.3gp )
Nov 21 19:43:04 <Moniker42> mjr, ah it's browsing anywhere i was interested in anywhere - so 2.5g covers browsing wherever in the uk then? :)
Nov 21 19:43:20 <borg_> Moniker42: yes
Nov 21 19:43:24 <mjr> gprs does
Nov 21 19:43:32 <tuukkah> oops, i remembered gprs was 2.25g %-) sorry
Nov 21 19:44:18 <Moniker42> hmm... not as good as 2.3g
Nov 21 19:44:27 <Moniker42> or 2.4g, for that matter.
Nov 21 19:44:48 <mjr> fuck the fractional Gs especially
Nov 21 19:44:55 <roh> to be exact... everything behind the . including the dot in 3.5g 2.5g .. etc is not defined, just marketing speak
Nov 21 19:45:08 <Moniker42> isn't anyone going to kick CM for pinging dozens of people?
Nov 21 19:45:12 <roh> its only 2g or 3g + featureset
Nov 21 19:45:23 <Moniker42> i'm not seeing any flood quit...
Nov 21 19:45:31 <CM> Moniker42: I am?
Nov 21 19:46:09 <Moniker42> CM, your earlier post "this video is very nice..." and then you pinged about forty people
Nov 21 19:46:31 <tuukkah> anyway, gprs isn't superfast
Nov 21 19:46:35 <Moniker42> oooh sorry CM 
Nov 21 19:46:37 <borg_> not me
Nov 21 19:46:52 <mjr> it's slow, but workable for many things still
Nov 21 19:47:02 <Moniker42> CM, i feel a tad idiotic now..... tab-complete on xchat >.<
Nov 21 19:47:03 <balrog-kun> i got no ping from CM
Nov 21 19:47:09 <balrog-kun> i feel left out :(
Nov 21 19:47:19 <CM> Moniker42: Heh, don't worry about it. :)
Nov 21 19:47:31 <Moniker42> the formatting in xchat looked just like it was the rest of your message
Nov 21 19:47:39 <Moniker42> a coincidentally unfortunate linebreak...
Nov 21 19:47:55 * Moniker42 is going to go to bed and get some sleep before he makes more of a fool of himself now :)
Nov 21 19:48:05 <edistar> Moniker42: sleep well ;)
Nov 21 19:48:10 <CM> Hehe
Nov 21 19:48:23 <CM> ~fish Moniker42 
Nov 21 19:48:24 * apt slaps Moniker42 around with a large trout
Nov 21 19:48:30 <CM> Moniker42: Now we're even.. ;)
Nov 21 19:48:50 <Moniker42> hmm... i feel like having some fish & chips before bed now
Nov 21 19:49:16 <CM> ~chips Moniker42 
Nov 21 19:49:17 <Moniker42> thankfully i live in scotland, so that particular artery-clogging convenience is only a few hundred feet away
Nov 21 19:49:25 <CM> Ahh.. To bad that didn't work :)
Nov 21 19:49:44 <abraxa_> ~kick CM
Nov 21 19:49:45 * apt kicks CM
Nov 21 19:49:48 <abraxa_> :D
Nov 21 19:49:56 <CM> :P
Nov 21 19:49:57 <edistar> friendly ;)
Nov 21 19:50:18 * abraxa_ huggles apt for being a good bot
Nov 21 19:50:20 <CM> apt's larts are really funny, at least some
Nov 21 19:50:27 <CM> ~curse abraxa_ 
Nov 21 19:50:28 <apt> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, abraxa_ !
Nov 21 19:50:36 <abraxa_> Dude
Nov 21 19:50:40 <CM> Hehe
Nov 21 19:50:50 <edistar> i like that one ;)
Nov 21 19:50:55 <abraxa_> That's one serious insult =(
Nov 21 19:51:14 <abraxa_> Too bad you already have to code in APT or else I'd wish that on you
Nov 21 19:51:37 <CM> Hehe, APL, and no I won't do that in my new job
Nov 21 19:51:48 <abraxa_> Argh... see what apt does to my brain
Nov 21 19:52:00 <abraxa_> Makes me mix up words already
Nov 21 19:52:03 <edistar> APL?
Nov 21 19:52:11 <CM> edistar: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/apl2.png
Nov 21 19:52:22 <CM> It's an old language sometimes still used at mainfraims
Nov 21 19:52:29 <CM> frames..
Nov 21 19:52:32 <edistar> ah, ok, thx
Nov 21 19:52:57 <SpeedEvil> Which is perhaps one of the most write-only languages ever.
Nov 21 19:53:02 <CM> It's not exactly easy to read.. Not even using ascii, but having it's own alphabet
Nov 21 19:53:08 <SpeedEvil> It even has its own charset
Nov 21 19:53:12 <CoreDump> and I thought perl looks bad...
Nov 21 19:53:15 <edistar> seriously you program in that language?
Nov 21 19:53:15 <CM> SpeedEvil: Yes, at least that's ever been used for real
Nov 21 19:53:31 <CM> edistar: Not all the time, but yes I've had to fix bugs in that
Nov 21 19:53:39 <edistar> CM: good luck then
Nov 21 19:53:47 <cjb_ie> yeah, i saw a program to generate a list of primes... which was like 6 characters or something ridiculous like that
Nov 21 19:54:03 <CM> Yeah, it can be really compact
Nov 21 19:54:20 <edistar> how long do you need to learn that?
Nov 21 19:54:39 <CM> I'm trying hard not to learn..
Nov 21 19:54:42 <edistar> heh
Nov 21 19:54:57 <CM> My boss have been programming in it for 30 years
Nov 21 19:55:19 <edistar> CM: at least he has experience then :)
Nov 21 19:55:31 <CM> He thinks in that code
Nov 21 19:55:38 <edistar> I can imagine
Nov 21 19:55:48 <CM> Can't get him to even follow a simple python program
Nov 21 19:56:20 <CM> ~lart APL
Nov 21 19:56:20 * apt drops a humongous exploding nuke on APL
Nov 21 19:56:48 <tuukkah> python must be all too verbose for him :-)
Nov 21 19:57:13 <tuukkah> and oo just a way to make the programs even longer
Nov 21 19:57:26 <edistar> oo does make programs longer..
Nov 21 19:57:53 <tuukkah> edistar, depends, as it makes the identifiers shorter :-)
Nov 21 19:58:12 <edistar> tuukkah: small programs, small games etc
Nov 21 19:58:51 <tuukkah> definitely, at least if you use too many classes etc. and don't keep it appropriately simple
Nov 21 19:59:22 <tuukkah> it's good that python isn't oo-only
Nov 21 19:59:32 <edistar> yep :)
Nov 21 19:59:49 <edistar> but we learned python for 2 years at school without once talking about oo
Nov 21 20:00:04 <edistar> when I used classes in the project the teacher didn't understand..
Nov 21 20:00:09 <ewon> lol
Nov 21 20:00:16 <CM> hehe
Nov 21 20:00:49 <CM> edistar: Actually there are an object oriented version of APL, but that's a real horror :D
Nov 21 20:01:06 <edistar> brr..
Nov 21 20:01:20 <tuukkah> edistar, hmm, was that some old-school python?
Nov 21 20:01:33 <edistar> tuukkah: no, we used python 2.3 I think
Nov 21 20:01:51 <edistar> tuukkah: I think he tried to relive basic though.. in python
Nov 21 20:02:55 <edistar> tuukkah: but I didn't listen to him :) had to debug for him ;)
Nov 21 20:02:58 <tuukkah> so what did you use instead of objects? just tuples?
Nov 21 20:03:21 <edistar> tuukkah: yeah
Nov 21 20:03:22 <tuukkah> or, basic doesn't have tuples either?
Nov 21 20:03:52 <edistar> I only used casiobasic, don't know about basic generally..
Nov 21 20:06:37 <balrog-kun> i think structs in basic are short arrays with elements of different types
Nov 21 20:06:50 <cjb_ie> basic with structs?!?
Nov 21 20:07:21 <balrog-kun> or what people use in place of structs :)
Nov 21 20:17:46 <IfChinsCouldKill> I think ibm adabas und natural is my personal nightmare
Nov 21 20:48:01 <alex88ita> hello!
Nov 21 20:50:18 <edistar> alex88ita: h
Nov 21 20:50:18 <edistar> i
Nov 21 20:50:24 <alex88ita> hi edistar 
Nov 21 20:50:50 <alex88ita> do u happen to have the openmoko emulator working and installer?
Nov 21 20:50:53 <alex88ita> installed*
Nov 21 20:51:21 <edistar> alex88ita: yeah... 'make qemu' works for me, I do get errors but if I cd to the right dir and run the command it tells me it works ;)
Nov 21 20:51:34 <alex88ita> uhm
Nov 21 20:51:37 <alex88ita> i get an error
Nov 21 20:51:48 <edistar> alex88ita: which one? -> nopaste.org
Nov 21 20:51:52 <alex88ita> you know the download.sh and flash.sh scripts?
Nov 21 20:52:07 <edistar> alex88ita: yes
Nov 21 20:52:15 <alex88ita> download works good
Nov 21 20:52:25 <alex88ita> i get an error when i've to run flash.sh
Nov 21 20:52:28 <alex88ita> hold on i'll upload it
Nov 21 20:52:30 <edistar> ok
Nov 21 20:52:37 <alex88ita> thanks 
Nov 21 20:55:24 <alex88ita> executing now
Nov 21 20:55:49 <alex88ita> btw, sorry about my rubbish english
Nov 21 20:56:15 <edistar> alex88ita: no problem ;)
Nov 21 20:56:19 <josch> alex88ita, I think the majority here is no natove english speaker :-)
Nov 21 20:56:26 <alex88ita> eheh ok
Nov 21 20:56:51 <alex88ita> *Please wait, programming the NAND flash*
Nov 21 20:57:05 <edistar> timeout error?
Nov 21 20:57:17 <alex88ita> not yet
Nov 21 20:57:25 <edistar> alex88ita: ok
Nov 21 20:57:44 <balrog-kun> when you get an error please copy all output from the start instead of only the error line
Nov 21 20:57:55 <alex88ita> http://nopaste.org/p/aNLUnGFJr
Nov 21 20:58:13 <alex88ita> i uploaded the last 10 lines or so
Nov 21 20:58:28 <alex88ita> i can paste all the output if needed
Nov 21 20:58:57 <balrog-kun> yes, it would be more informative
Nov 21 20:58:58 <edistar> alex88ita: do you have debian testing or ubuntu?
Nov 21 20:59:06 <alex88ita> debian sid 
Nov 21 20:59:26 <edistar> ah, ok
Nov 21 20:59:30 <edistar> might be a known bug
Nov 21 20:59:51 <alex88ita> o
Nov 21 21:00:04 <alex88ita> i see
Nov 21 21:00:15 <flexd> what's up with buildhost today?
Nov 21 21:00:34 <flexd> i tried to do make qemu now, and it gets a 404 on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/index.html :/
Nov 21 21:01:35 <mmontour> flexd: the path changed a while ago from "fic-gta01" to "neo1973"
Nov 21 21:01:40 <edistar> flexd: I did a make qemu about 1 hour ago and it worked..
Nov 21 21:01:53 <flexd> mmontour: oh, how do i change the path on my end?
Nov 21 21:02:09 <balrog-kun> flexd: it shouldn't try to fetch this file since some two weeks ago
Nov 21 21:02:25 <mmontour> make update-makefile? I'm not sure as I don't use qemu.
Nov 21 21:02:25 <balrog-kun> (also, the file doesn't exist so the 404 is ok)
Nov 21 21:02:43 <edistar> alex88ita: it works at my end, I'm running lenny so that shouldn't be a problem
Nov 21 21:02:57 <alex88ita> damn
Nov 21 21:03:03 <flexd> balrog-kun: Well since the file has moved/changed path, how do i fix it on my end?
Nov 21 21:03:08 <flexd> the update-makefile did nothing
Nov 21 21:03:59 <flexd> it still seems to try to fetch from that place :/
Nov 21 21:04:16 <balrog-kun> flexd: update your sources
Nov 21 21:04:25 <balrog-kun> i don't know how this is done in MokoMakefile, i don't use it
Nov 21 21:05:31 <edistar> alex88ita: sure that you have the most current svn snapshot?
Nov 21 21:05:41 <alex88ita> i think so
Nov 21 21:05:51 <edistar> try again..
Nov 21 21:05:59 <edistar> svn checkout etc..
Nov 21 21:06:15 <alex88ita> yeah
Nov 21 21:06:26 <alex88ita> i'll do everything from the beginning :P
Nov 21 21:07:07 <alex88ita> https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973
Nov 21 21:07:11 <alex88ita> is this correct?
Nov 21 21:07:15 <balrog-kun> yep
Nov 21 21:07:19 <edistar> alex88ita: yes, just follow the wiki :)
Nov 21 21:07:25 <alex88ita> k ;)
Nov 21 21:07:34 * balrog-kun hopes that works -_-
Nov 21 21:08:22 <edistar> why isn't the sms app in the current image?
Nov 21 21:09:18 <dcordes> lack of usabillity I guess
Nov 21 21:09:30 <balrog-kun> edistar: i think there's gonna be an official sms app
Nov 21 21:09:37 <balrog-kun> integrated with the dialer
Nov 21 21:10:18 <edistar> balrog-kun: I thought the sms app was already prototyped..
Nov 21 21:11:03 <balrog-kun> edistar: which sms app were you asking about though?
Nov 21 21:11:18 <balrog-kun> maybe i'm just not updated :)
Nov 21 21:11:59 <josch> openmoko-messages2
Nov 21 21:12:03 <edistar> balrog-kun: the one they were talking about on the mailinglist today
Nov 21 21:12:45 <balrog-kun> ah okay, that's probably the official one :p
Nov 21 21:13:01 <balrog-kun> by chris lord?
Nov 21 21:13:16 <edistar> think so, yes
Nov 21 21:13:24 <alex88ita> lol i get a different error now
Nov 21 21:13:35 <alex88ita> sh ./openmoko/download.sh
Nov 21 21:13:36 <alex88ita>     Retrieving available builds list...
Nov 21 21:13:36 <alex88ita>     Kernel is... uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8-neo1973.bin
Nov 21 21:13:36 <alex88ita>     Root filesystem is... not found
Nov 21 21:13:53 <dcordes> lol
Nov 21 21:14:16 <edistar> alex88ita: normal
Nov 21 21:14:19 <edistar> I have that too
Nov 21 21:14:25 <balrog-kun> someone mentioned the buildhost was acting-up today
Nov 21 21:14:40 <edistar> alex88ita: but then when I do openmoko/flash.sh it works again
Nov 21 21:14:45 <alex88ita> ah
Nov 21 21:14:46 <alex88ita> :D
Nov 21 21:15:09 <balrog-kun> that's only when you already have a rootfs image in openmoko/
Nov 21 21:15:24 <edistar> balrog-kun: well, I didn't
Nov 21 21:15:36 <alex88ita> me neither
Nov 21 21:15:44 <edistar> balrog-kun: I started from scratch by wiki
Nov 21 21:15:49 <alex88ita> and it's still not working  after using flash.sh
Nov 21 21:16:03 * balrog-kun wonders what flash.sh is flashing then
Nov 21 21:16:17 <edistar> balrog-kun: as long as it works..
Nov 21 21:16:57 <alex88ita> pfffff
Nov 21 21:17:07 <edistar> alex88ita: hm?
Nov 21 21:17:15 <alex88ita> no way
Nov 21 21:17:24 <mmontour> Speaking of host problems, svn.berlios.de is down (pingable but svn gets connection refused) :(
Nov 21 21:17:36 <mwester> Yep, been screwing up builds all day now :(
Nov 21 21:17:58 <edistar> alex88ita: flash.sh doesn't work? hm
Nov 21 21:18:06 <alex88ita> it doesn't
Nov 21 21:18:21 <alex88ita> it seems like it's looking for a root directory
Nov 21 21:19:07 <edistar> funny.. why does it work on my machine then?
Nov 21 21:19:16 <flexd> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Nov 21 21:19:18 <flexd> :'(
Nov 21 21:19:20 <alex88ita> :(
Nov 21 21:19:27 <flexd> oh
Nov 21 21:19:34 <flexd> Someone else just said it too heh
Nov 21 21:19:41 <alex88ita> eheh
Nov 21 21:20:28 <alex88ita> I dunno guys
Nov 21 21:21:17 <slomo> abraxa_: gst uses them indirectly through g_object_ref and friends... and i'd guess this happens very very often ;)
Nov 21 21:21:19 <edistar> alex88ita: tried make qemu?
Nov 21 21:21:36 <alex88ita> nope
Nov 21 21:21:41 <edistar> alex88ita: try that..
Nov 21 21:21:46 <edistar> in a different dir.
Nov 21 21:21:48 <edistar> .
Nov 21 21:21:57 <abraxa_> slomo: Oh, okay. I wasn't aware g_object_ref & Co were making use of atomic ops - thanks for the hint
Nov 21 21:21:57 <alex88ita> in my home?
Nov 21 21:22:14 <balrog-kun> i'm afraid there's no such target as "qemu" in the qemu Makefile
Nov 21 21:22:43 <edistar> balrog-kun: yes, I different makefile..
Nov 21 21:22:45 <slomo> abraxa_: also libatomic-ops should probably get this too, otherwise you won't be very happy with PA >= 0.9.7...
Nov 21 21:22:55 <balrog-kun> if the first part that fails from those listed in the wiki is download.sh it would mean a buildhost problem
Nov 21 21:23:05 <edistar> alex88ita: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile
Nov 21 21:23:11 <abraxa_> slomo: Did you file a bug there, too?
Nov 21 21:23:21 <slomo> abraxa_: not yet, tomorrow
Nov 21 21:23:22 <slomo> bbl
Nov 21 21:23:29 <edistar> alex88ita: could you paste the download.sh output?
Nov 21 21:23:43 <alex88ita> yeah sure
Nov 21 21:23:59 <alex88ita> pcdeb1:/home/alex/qemu-neo1973# ./openmoko/download.sh
Nov 21 21:23:59 <alex88ita>     Retrieving available builds list...
Nov 21 21:23:59 <alex88ita>     Kernel is... uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8-neo1973.bin
Nov 21 21:23:59 <alex88ita>     Root filesystem is... not found
Nov 21 21:24:15 <alex88ita> it doesn't print anything else
Nov 21 21:25:48 <alex88ita> edistar, what do u think about it
Nov 21 21:26:17 <edistar> my output:     Retrieving available builds list... Kernel is... uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8-neo1973.bin Root filesystem is... not found
Nov 21 21:26:22 <alex88ita> i'm trying the makefile thing
Nov 21 21:26:30 <alex88ita> make qemu
Nov 21 21:26:33 <edistar> yep
Nov 21 21:27:08 <alex88ita> maybe this will install all the dev stuff
Nov 21 21:27:18 * balrog-kun wonders if paths on buildhost have changed again..
Nov 21 21:27:47 <balrog-kun> oh yes, they have
Nov 21 21:29:44 <alex88ita> it's downloading a lot of stuff
Nov 21 21:29:55 <CIA-14> 03andrew * r3472 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: Update rootfs wildcard to match new buildhost filenames.
Nov 21 21:35:15 <edistar> alex88ita: how is it going?
Nov 21 21:35:51 <alex88ita> seems like it's downloading the tones atm
Nov 21 21:35:52 <alex88ita> :)
Nov 21 21:36:00 <alex88ita> ringtones
Nov 21 21:36:02 <edistar> alex88ita: ah, ok
Nov 21 21:36:12 <alex88ita> thanks a lot eh
Nov 21 21:36:19 <edistar> alex88ita: well.. not finished yet, is it..
Nov 21 21:36:29 <alex88ita> no yet not yet
Nov 21 21:37:02 <alex88ita> edistar, what do u do in your life? are u a student?
Nov 21 21:37:28 <edistar> alex88ita: go to school..
Nov 21 21:37:42 <alex88ita> high school?
Nov 21 21:38:05 <edistar> alex88ita: yeah
Nov 21 21:38:25 <alex88ita> thats good
Nov 21 21:38:29 <alex88ita> where r u from?
Nov 21 21:38:42 <edistar> alex88ita: germany
Nov 21 21:38:54 <edistar> well...netherlands/germany
Nov 21 21:39:19 <alex88ita> eheh
Nov 21 21:39:29 <alex88ita> so u listen to techno right?
Nov 21 21:39:41 <CVirus> germany == metal
Nov 21 21:39:43 <josch> alex88ita, is germany = techno?
Nov 21 21:40:05 <alex88ita> netherlands = hardcore = best dj's of the world
Nov 21 21:40:10 <edistar> alex88ita: some, yes
Nov 21 21:40:11 * josch thinks germany = gothic folk rock
Nov 21 21:40:28 <alex88ita> example: dj tiesto
Nov 21 21:40:34 <edistar> alex88ita: exactly
Nov 21 21:40:39 <alex88ita> eheh
Nov 21 21:40:43 <CVirus> Dj Tiesto is coming to egypt in days
Nov 21 21:40:49 <alex88ita> wow
Nov 21 21:40:50 <borg_> i thougt germany = rammstein ;)
Nov 21 21:41:05 <alex88ita> ehehe rammstein + kdmfm :D
Nov 21 21:41:11 <edistar> borg_: thats what all americans think..
Nov 21 21:41:16 <alex88ita> take a look at the 'evil germany' track
Nov 21 21:41:23 <borg_> edistar: i am german.. ;)
Nov 21 21:41:30 <borg_> that was just fun ;)
Nov 21 21:41:46 <josch> too many germans here ^^
Nov 21 21:41:54 <edistar> borg_: heh ;)
Nov 21 21:42:15 <Rodolphe12> hi
Nov 21 21:42:18 <CM> josch: Genau
Nov 21 21:42:21 <CM> ;)
Nov 21 21:42:28 <edistar> finde ich gar nicht so schlimm
Nov 21 21:42:28 <Rodolphe12> any devs around?
Nov 21 21:42:53 <CM> Rodolphe12: Not this late I think (european time)
Nov 21 21:43:02 <josch> appearently no "real" devs
Nov 21 21:43:20 <edistar> btw, to be a little bit less OT, have any alternative text input methods been adapted for OM yet?
Nov 21 21:43:40 <josch> edistar, of course: bluetooth keyboards ^^
Nov 21 21:43:49 <CM> edistar: I've seen cell writer
Nov 21 21:43:55 <edistar> josch: I mean alternative concepts..
Nov 21 21:44:05 <josch> my bt keyboard is still not working :-(
Nov 21 21:44:07 <edistar> CM: any ipk that I can try in qemu?
Nov 21 21:44:23 <CM> edistar: I think Ghiottone built it
Nov 21 21:44:26 <edistar> I am still looking for a medium sized flat bt keyboard
Nov 21 21:44:33 <edistar> CM: ok, I'll check it
Nov 21 21:44:53 <CM> edistar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro
Nov 21 21:45:06 <edistar> CM: thx
Nov 21 21:47:37 <josch> edistar, I can recommend you the freedom bt keyboard
Nov 21 21:47:46 <josch> but atm it only works on ubuntu
Nov 21 21:47:57 <josch> I assume there is a kernel module missing on openmoko
Nov 21 21:48:07 <josch> but the keyboard is really great
Nov 21 21:48:33 <josch> edistar, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/keyboard.jpg
Nov 21 21:48:39 <edistar> josch: do you know if it works with maemo too?
Nov 21 21:48:50 <josch> don't know
Nov 21 21:49:03 <josch> I even do not know if it will ever work with openmoko
Nov 21 21:49:10 <josch> but I think if it works on ubuntu
Nov 21 21:49:22 <josch> it will probably some time work on openmoko
Nov 21 21:49:34 <edistar> josch: it should work soon.. don't bt keyboards speak a kind of standard protocol?
Nov 21 21:50:21 <balrog-kun> yes, the samedrivers shoudl work on ubuntu and omoko (unless there's only a non-gpl binary)
Nov 21 21:50:34 <josch> edistar, they do - I figured that I had to modprobe uinput to get further but there still seems to be a module missing
Nov 21 21:51:04 <josch> balrog-kun, I'd know if I had installed a proprietary binary
Nov 21 21:51:10 <edistar> josch: ok..
Nov 21 21:54:03 <alex88ita> i think it's done with downloading
Nov 21 21:54:31 <alex88ita> WTF
Nov 21 21:54:39 <alex88ita> same error ffs
Nov 21 21:55:11 <balrog-kun> alex88ita: please update qemu sources
Nov 21 21:55:11 <edistar> alex88ita: oh..
Nov 21 21:55:21 <alex88ita> how balrog-kun 
Nov 21 21:55:21 <balrog-kun> i fixed the paths to the rootfs
Nov 21 21:55:49 <balrog-kun> with MokoMakefile i don't know, with svn it would be svn update
Nov 21 21:56:04 <alex88ita> svn up?
Nov 21 21:56:06 <alex88ita> i tried :P
Nov 21 21:56:16 <balrog-kun> in the qemu directory
Nov 21 21:56:25 <alex88ita> oh
Nov 21 21:56:27 <alex88ita> wait a sec
Nov 21 21:56:49 <alex88ita> update to revision 3472
Nov 21 21:57:11 <alex88ita> dude balrog-kun  :D
Nov 21 21:57:13 <alex88ita> it works lol
Nov 21 21:57:18 <alex88ita> it's downloading. 
Nov 21 21:57:25 <balrog-kun> well, flash.sh can still fail
Nov 21 21:57:33 <alex88ita> let's see
Nov 21 21:57:37 <alex88ita> thanks 
Nov 21 22:00:34 <edistar> alex88ita: working?
Nov 21 22:00:50 <alex88ita> it's downloading... still 2 minutes left :)
Nov 21 22:00:56 <edistar> alex88ita: ok
Nov 21 22:03:09 <edistar> alex88ita: so?
Nov 21 22:03:24 <alex88ita> executing flash.sh now
Nov 21 22:03:31 <edistar> ok
Nov 21 22:03:47 <alex88ita> damn... i hope it works
Nov 21 22:04:02 <edistar> yep
Nov 21 22:04:06 <alex88ita> i see no errors
Nov 21 22:04:18 <edistar> ah, so it worked?
Nov 21 22:04:40 <alex88ita> i think so :D
Nov 21 22:04:54 <edistar> alex88ita: does a window come up now?
Nov 21 22:04:58 <alex88ita> yup
Nov 21 22:05:04 <alex88ita> let's see if it can load nowww :D
Nov 21 22:05:29 <edistar> heh ;)
Nov 21 22:05:32 <alex88ita> eheh :D
Nov 21 22:06:48 <edistar> alex88ita: well.. as soon as we hear a big cheer from you we know that it works..
Nov 21 22:07:02 <alex88ita> lol
Nov 21 22:07:22 <alex88ita> i see a black screen
Nov 21 22:07:41 <edistar> it's a start..
Nov 21 22:08:45 <alex88ita> yeah
Nov 21 22:08:49 <alex88ita> definitely
Nov 21 22:09:48 <alex88ita> :)
Nov 21 22:17:22 <edistar> does anyone know if video playback works yet?
Nov 21 22:17:38 <CM> edistar: So-so
Nov 21 22:17:41 <edistar> is OM using gstreamer?
Nov 21 22:17:55 <CM> Yes
Nov 21 22:18:07 <CM> But there's mplayer available too
Nov 21 22:18:15 <edistar> CM: thats good
Nov 21 22:18:17 <edistar> I like mplayed
Nov 21 22:18:19 <edistar> mplayer
Nov 21 22:18:25 <alex88ita> who doesnt :)
Nov 21 22:18:26 <CM> It can play videos in qvga
Nov 21 22:18:39 <edistar> CM: why not in VGA?
Nov 21 22:19:20 <balrog-kun> in VGA as well
Nov 21 22:19:28 <edistar> ok :)
Nov 21 22:19:34 <edistar> it does not lag?
Nov 21 22:19:45 <josch> alex88ita, abraxa_ hates mplayer ^^
Nov 21 22:20:05 <josch> edistar, video zooming can only be done in software and is slooooow
Nov 21 22:20:28 * josch can watch 300 in qvga
Nov 21 22:20:33 <balrog-kun> edistar: every video player starts lagging at some point, on any computer
Nov 21 22:21:14 <edistar> balrog-kun: what do you mean?
Nov 21 22:21:25 <edistar> josch: I don't want to zoom, just watch a VGA film
Nov 21 22:21:28 <edistar> video
Nov 21 22:21:35 <alex88ita> eheh josch
Nov 21 22:21:56 <edistar> m.youtube.com :) without flash ;)
Nov 21 22:21:56 <abraxa_> josch: I don't hate it, it's just a PITA to integrate
Nov 21 22:22:14 <balrog-kun> edistar: videos can be encoded in thousands of different formats, some will lag and some won't
Nov 21 22:22:22 <josch> abraxa_, so no "I hate mplayer" shirt for you...
Nov 21 22:22:37 <josch> balrog-kun, mpeg4 performs very good
Nov 21 22:22:40 <edistar> balrog-kun: ah, ok..
Nov 21 22:22:52 <balrog-kun> some of the encodings are so complex that a 50x core xeon will lag :)
Nov 21 22:23:18 <edistar> balrog-kun: do you think 3gp will be alright?
Nov 21 22:23:20 <edistar> in VGA?
Nov 21 22:23:41 <abraxa_> edistar: VGA is a no-go, no matter the format/program
Nov 21 22:23:44 <balrog-kun> edistar: i haven't tried, but perhaps nope, too slow
Nov 21 22:23:51 <edistar> will it in the end?
Nov 21 22:24:02 <abraxa_> edistar: GTA02, *maybe*
Nov 21 22:24:44 <edistar> abraxa_: I hope so, would be a shame to admit that my mobile then can't play videos that have the resolution of the screen..
Nov 21 22:25:21 <abraxa_> edistar: Not really
Nov 21 22:25:56 <abraxa_> The screen is for readability and bling, not to cope with massive amounts of streaming data - if it does cope it'll be a nice bonus imo
Nov 21 22:26:30 <josch> the resolution is too big for this size
Nov 21 22:26:39 <josch> even qvga video looks crisp and clear
Nov 21 22:27:14 <balrog-kun> it depends on the framerate and many other factors, with some parameters it can do VGA ofcourse
Nov 21 22:27:47 <josch> balrog-kun, I tried and no
Nov 21 22:27:52 <edistar> if VGA is overkill for such a small screen, why not run OM in 320x240?
Nov 21 22:28:09 <josch> I found it impossible to ncode a VGA video with such a low bitrate that it will play smoothly
Nov 21 22:28:39 <balrog-kun> josch: how about 1 frame per second? :)
Nov 21 22:28:40 <mwester> edistar:  YES!
Nov 21 22:28:45 <josch> edistar, if you want to watch video you first switch the screen to qvga, yes
Nov 21 22:28:51 <josch> balrog-kun, -_-
Nov 21 22:29:01 <alex88ita> lol
Nov 21 22:29:03 <alex88ita> 1fps
Nov 21 22:29:13 <edistar> mwester: do you think it would be hard to change OM to QVGA? will the programs rescale?
Nov 21 22:29:25 <josch> edistar, it looks horrible
Nov 21 22:29:32 <mwester> edistar: sadly, they should rescale pretty well, once it's all done.
Nov 21 22:29:36 <balrog-kun> well, i'm just saying that saying that it will not cope at VGA resolution makes no sense
Nov 21 22:29:41 <balrog-kun> it depends on too many things
Nov 21 22:31:04 <edistar> josch: sure? did you try out? I think koen ported OM to a motorola and it looked alright..
Nov 21 22:31:24 <josch> edistar, I only know what happens if I switch my neo to qvga
Nov 21 22:31:32 <edistar> josch: ok.. what happens?
Nov 21 22:31:47 <josch> maybe I should do a screenshot?
Nov 21 22:31:52 <edistar> josch: would be great
Nov 21 22:32:11 <edistar> mwester: why is it sad that it will rescale well?
Nov 21 22:33:27 <mwester> My opinion: it is a waste of valuable CPU cycles on a device so small to have each and every GUI component computed and shaded on-the-fly.  IMO, we would do better to have pre-sized and pre-shaded images that we move about the display.  Much faster.
Nov 21 22:34:01 <mjr> probably sensible
Nov 21 22:34:34 <edistar> mwester: ah..like raster said some time ago?
Nov 21 22:35:09 <mwester> Exactly.  He's the man to know.
Nov 21 22:35:10 <SpeedEvil> that's going to be a not utterly insignifcant amount of flash though is it?
Nov 21 22:35:13 <josch> edistar, yeah raster is the best if it comes to those questions
Nov 21 22:35:17 <SpeedEvil> 1M?
Nov 21 22:36:19 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  compression works well on simple buttons and gui elements.  There's no call for gradients and other stuff on the GTA01 (maybe the GTA02 can do it)
Nov 21 22:36:36 <SpeedEvil> I suppose
Nov 21 22:39:30 <edistar> josch: got a screenie?
Nov 21 22:40:06 <josch> edistar, one moment
Nov 21 22:40:23 <edistar> josch: I'll give you 10 moments ;)
Nov 21 22:41:17 <josch> great! :-D
Nov 21 22:43:52 <mwester> 10?  Wow !
Nov 21 22:44:22 <DukeOfURL> mwester: 10-20?
Nov 21 22:44:22 <edistar> the startscreen of OM, is there a way to customize it at some point, to add a shortcut to the browser or something similar?
Nov 21 22:45:36 <Writchie> mwester: have you got a decent working 2.6.23 kernel?
Nov 21 22:46:02 <flexd> edistar: i guess anything is possible if you want to edit the sources
Nov 21 22:46:25 <josch> edistar, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/qvga.png
Nov 21 22:46:33 <flexd> ... some code here ...
Nov 21 22:46:44 <edistar> josch: thx
Nov 21 22:46:51 <flexd> err
Nov 21 22:46:53 <josch> yeah! a new mwester kernel would be great!
Nov 21 22:47:13 <edistar> josch: ah, I understand :P
Nov 21 22:47:18 <mwester> Writchie:  Yes!  (but not for the neo ;)
Nov 21 22:47:29 <balrog-kun> josch: it looks like resolution of the framebuffer is not changed
Nov 21 22:47:44 <balrog-kun> josch: do you use fbset to set new resolution?
Nov 21 22:47:45 <mwester> Writchie:  if I start assembling a 2.6.23 kernel, are there folks interested in testing same?
Nov 21 22:47:53 <sid> haha @ topic
Nov 21 22:48:00 <josch> I did echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state && fbset qvga
Nov 21 22:48:32 <Writchie> Writchie: i am - i need one to test my kernel gsm multiplexor
Nov 21 22:48:34 <balrog-kun> well, it looks as if the fbset part was ignored or incorrect
Nov 21 22:48:43 <Writchie> s/Writchie/mwester/
Nov 21 22:48:44 <apt> Writchie meant: mwester: i am - i need one to test my kernel gsm multiplexor
Nov 21 22:48:48 <mwester> The latest kernel images, BTW, do have the qvga support, but it's missing a patch, so it will resume in vga mode after suspend/resume :(  
Nov 21 22:49:03 <abraxa_> mwester: Not a problem
Nov 21 22:49:05 <mwester> Writchie:  I'll take a look to see what we can get booting up.
Nov 21 22:49:17 <sid> damn, this place has over 300 people, must be a lot of interest.
Nov 21 22:49:22 <sid> used to be small
Nov 21 22:49:32 <mwester> abraxa_:  I have a kernel that fixes that, but I haven't uploaded it yet.  I'll do that...
Nov 21 22:49:32 <balrog-kun> Writchie: are you writing a gsm multiplexer that should work on the Neo?
Nov 21 22:49:49 <abraxa_> mwester: Only use for QVGA will be mplayer and during movie playback the Neo should not suspend in the first place
Nov 21 22:49:52 * mwester applauds Writchie's effort on the mux!
Nov 21 22:49:55 <abraxa_> mwester: ok
Nov 21 22:50:10 <balrog-kun> Writchie: have you started the work already?
Nov 21 22:50:29 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: it will probably use modestly less power in QVGA mode
Nov 21 22:50:30 * balrog-kun has some patches that could be a good start
Nov 21 22:50:37 * josch would also be interested in testing a new mwester kernel ^^
Nov 21 22:50:39 <edistar> abraxa_: yeah, if you could set qvga automagically when mplayer gets started and switch back when finished, that would be cool
Nov 21 22:50:41 <Writchie> i am testing now on i386 - its showing signs of life
Nov 21 22:50:53 <abraxa_> edistar: That's what I'm doing :)
Nov 21 22:51:01 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: "it"?
Nov 21 22:51:02 <edistar> abraxa_: and it works fine?
Nov 21 22:51:22 <abraxa_> edistar: I didn't say that - but it's usable
Nov 21 22:51:23 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: the RAM, the SOC, and the LCD will all use less power at lower data rates to the LCD
Nov 21 22:52:19 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Okay, but I hope that's not a motivation for you to run the GUI in 320x240
Nov 21 22:52:51 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: no - it might be a motivation in some apps though - especially dimmed screensavers with the CPU clocked down
Nov 21 22:53:03 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: Agreed
Nov 21 22:53:50 <edistar> good night! cu some time
Nov 21 22:55:19 <abraxa_> night night :)
Nov 21 22:57:28 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  Was the poor resolution on the power management voltage adjustment a driver issue, or inherent in the PM chip?
Nov 21 22:58:03 <SpeedEvil> inherent.
Nov 21 22:58:19 <SpeedEvil> it's got .3V voltage granularity on those rails
Nov 21 22:58:20 <mwester> Same problem on the GTA02, do you know?
Nov 21 22:58:27 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, yes.
Nov 21 22:58:32 <mwester> Bummer.
Nov 21 22:58:41 <mwester> .3 is a lot.
Nov 21 22:58:57 <Writchie> but the GTA02 battery has an integral coulomb counter
Nov 21 22:58:57 <SpeedEvil> 2.1V is spec as I understand it - the core CPU seems to work OK at 1.5V
Nov 21 22:59:08 <SpeedEvil> Writchie: that's not relevant.
Nov 21 22:59:13 <Writchie> my bad
Nov 21 22:59:22 <SpeedEvil> Writchie: this is the core CPU voltages
Nov 21 22:59:37 <Writchie> right - though you were talking about charge state
Nov 21 22:59:48 <SpeedEvil> however, many of the PLLs seem to fall over at 1.5V
Nov 21 23:00:03 <SpeedEvil> USB for example gets very flaky, as does audio
Nov 21 23:00:16 <SpeedEvil> I suspect 1.6V would work just fine, but...
Nov 21 23:00:36 <mwester> ...but we have to go up to 1.8V
Nov 21 23:00:47 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Nov 21 23:01:25 <mwester> So really, it's 1.8V or suspend, for practical purposes.
Nov 21 23:01:38 <SpeedEvil> Basically, yes.
Nov 21 23:04:47 <Writchie> SpeedEvil: I still like the idea of processing some limited stuff from suspend state.
Nov 21 23:05:54 <SpeedEvil> Yes, it's a nice idea.
Nov 21 23:06:47 <Writchie> it may be possible to talk to the gps (and gsm) serial ports while suspended. 
Nov 21 23:07:29 <Writchie> just like the arm 7's in the bt and gsm are running in a low power state
Nov 21 23:07:56 <Writchie> kinda like an extended ACPI bios
Nov 21 23:14:12 <josch> will the issue with the bad phone audio be fixed sometime?
Nov 21 23:18:29 <daMaestro> +1 to that question
Nov 21 23:24:44 <cjb_ie> is that not just a mixerset problem?
Nov 21 23:26:34 <rwhitby> mwester: "There's an amazing amount of emptiness between cities here in the midwest USA.  Even more as you go westward..." - heh - you should travel in Australia sometime ...
Nov 21 23:31:30 <Ghiottone> hello
Nov 21 23:34:04 <daMaestro> cjb_ie, i would expect so, yes
Nov 21 23:38:41 <VladimirBG> hello
Nov 21 23:53:27 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Dumb question: If I don't have /etc/alsa on my moko, is there any way to get it back? 
Nov 21 23:56:55 <ljp> alsa states get put into /etc
Nov 21 23:57:13 <ljp> for some reason
Nov 21 23:58:25 <HistoryOnTheRoad> oh :S
Nov 22 00:03:10 <HistoryOnTheRoad> ljp: And so they are ... wow, and I thought I rm'd something by accident :S
Nov 22 00:04:00 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Hmmm
Nov 22 00:05:53 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Does aplay support MP3's? (Is that another dumb question)?
Nov 22 00:08:15 <balrog-kun> it doesn't on my pc
Nov 22 00:08:46 <balrog-kun> i usually use "aoss mpg123 blah.mp3" if i want to be sure i'm testing alsa
Nov 22 00:09:54 <HistoryOnTheRoad> There is something on the neo that supports mp3's ... the sounds it makes are in that format 
Nov 22 00:10:20 <balrog-kun> madplay maybe
Nov 22 00:10:31 <mmontour> Yes, madplay works.
Nov 22 00:10:44 <HistoryOnTheRoad> ARGH, that's it.
Nov 22 00:10:50 * HistoryOnTheRoad smacks head
Nov 22 00:11:00 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I've been off neo too long :D
Nov 22 00:11:34 * HistoryOnTheRoad listens to an mp3 on the SD
Nov 22 00:11:45 <HistoryOnTheRoad> balrog-kun: Thanks
Nov 22 00:12:04 <balrog-kun> :)
Nov 22 00:12:52 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'd really like it if the *#(*439ing power stuff worked right.
Nov 22 00:13:32 <josch> n8
Nov 22 00:13:33 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I _KNOW_ the battery can last a while... I charged it fully, pulled it out and put it back ... and got busy.
Nov 22 00:14:01 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I figued I'd have to do a deep discharge recovery, but noooooooooo.... it booted up right away.
Nov 22 00:14:36 <HistoryOnTheRoad> So, having the battery in doesn't drain it ... it's the power management that isn't working yet
Nov 22 00:20:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad> ok, any way to add volume to aplay or tweak the mixer to do so/
Nov 22 00:20:42 <HistoryOnTheRoad> ?
Nov 22 00:28:45 <abraxa_> HistoryOnTheRoad: alsamixer :)
Nov 22 00:30:14 <mwester> rwhitby: I've heard it said that Australia is "hollow" ;)
Nov 22 00:33:37 <HistoryOnTheRoad> abraxa_: :) ... ok, I have to fiddle with that beast again. Hopefully there's something on the wiki
Nov 22 00:36:07 <abraxa_> HistoryOnTheRoad: It does have a lot of mixer settings but the ones relating to speaker output are rather easy to find
Nov 22 00:37:04 <balrog-kun> it would be really nice if the Wolfson chips datasheets had diagrams with many arrows detailing which input goes to which adc/dac/output, where there's a bypass possible etc
Nov 22 00:37:11 <SpeedEvil> they do
Nov 22 00:37:28 <SpeedEvil> the remaining bit of the puzzle is what's connected to what outputs
Nov 22 00:37:36 <balrog-kun> i didn't see any diagram in wm8750 or 8753 datasheets
Nov 22 00:37:57 <SpeedEvil> I'm sure it's in there - it's where the diagram from audio subsystem comes from IIRC
Nov 22 00:38:09 <SpeedEvil> maybe that's in the web page only? though that seems unlikely
Nov 22 00:38:30 <balrog-kun> understanding the possible paths from the written description that spans a couple of pages was difficult and i had forgotten it five minutes later
Nov 22 00:38:42 <balrog-kun> hmm
Nov 22 00:38:58 <SpeedEvil> Isn't there a digagram on teh first page?
Nov 22 00:38:58 <HistoryOnTheRoad> abraxa_: ok, last time I asked I was referred to the wiring diagram ... and that was for something that I thought would be simple :P
Nov 22 00:39:11 * balrog-kun opens the pdf
Nov 22 00:41:54 <HistoryOnTheRoad> There are some diagrams on the wiki .. and a couple of good links
Nov 22 00:45:11 <rwhitby> mwester: no, that's just the people, not the country.
Nov 22 00:47:45 <ljp> actually, if you do stamp your feet in australia, is does ring like a bell
Nov 22 00:53:13 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: hmm, yes there's a diagram and it's quite readable, i don't remember what my issue with it was then
Nov 22 00:53:16 <balrog-kun> sorry, was on phone
Nov 22 00:53:46 <balrog-kun> maybe i skipped the first page right away
Nov 22 00:56:28 <hachi> damn, I had my moko running for like 6 hours on battery
Nov 22 00:56:36 <hachi> then it locked up and wouldn't boot again
Nov 22 00:57:19 <hachi> I guess 6 hours is the limit
Nov 22 01:00:32 <balrog-kun> hachi: it didn't lock up, it ran out of battery
Nov 22 01:00:43 <balrog-kun> it will boot again when it charges
Nov 22 01:09:23 <hachi> yeah, I know
Nov 22 01:09:29 <hachi> it's a resilliant little bugger
Nov 22 01:16:59 <mwester> woohoo!  svn.berlios.de is no longer svn.berlios.dead
Nov 22 01:17:18 <mwester> Let the Build Begin!!
Nov 22 01:28:29 * balrog-kun hears the sound of gcc compiling millions of lines of code on every core in mwester's computer
Nov 22 01:36:51 * mwester discovers an openmoko build directory left over from Sept 20th, and happily recovers several GB of disk space... :)
Nov 22 02:19:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1016 has been created by olv(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 22 02:19:02 <cdbot2> * * Xglamo should be more open
Nov 22 02:19:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1016
Nov 22 02:19:10 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1017 has been created by olv(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 22 02:19:12 <cdbot2> * * Xglamo stalls after some time
Nov 22 02:19:14 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1017
Nov 22 02:20:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1018 has been created by olv(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 22 02:20:02 <cdbot2> * * skewed video frames on Xglamo
Nov 22 02:20:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1018
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 22 02:59:56 2007