**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 22 02:59:56 2007 Nov 22 03:43:42 * arw1 hello people Nov 22 03:44:13 helo Nov 22 03:44:32 o Nov 22 03:44:36 / Nov 22 03:45:10 ;) Nov 22 03:49:01 hey, will the neo use a contacts managing app (or at least filetype) that will be compatible with a desktop/laptop linux? Nov 22 04:49:44 Moniker42: Maybe, maybe not :P Nov 22 04:50:11 nowhistory, well i'm just wondering if i will be able to automatically back up my contacts Nov 22 04:50:31 Moniker42: Depends on what "automatically" means. Nov 22 04:50:51 nowhistory, clearly it was a word i put in that sentence without even thinking about it Nov 22 04:51:02 rcp/scp when connected? Most probably. Other mechanism? Still in the air. Nov 22 04:51:03 i wouldn't even mind doing it manually ;) Nov 22 04:51:35 There has been talk about something through the openembedded framework, but I haven't fiddled too much with that yet. Nov 22 04:51:56 hmm i don't know if i can wait till january... i want one now! Nov 22 04:52:08 i might just buy the gta01 and persevere with the myriad of problems... Nov 22 04:52:19 "working contacts" would be a pre req, like "working calls" :) Nov 22 04:52:29 lol Nov 22 04:52:34 They aren't that bad Nov 22 04:52:54 Not for everyday use, but it's gotten a lot better in the last few months Nov 22 04:53:14 I read on one of the ML's that someone had gotten SMS to work Nov 22 04:53:21 which is awesome Nov 22 04:53:52 i know a guy that bought one a few weeks ago Nov 22 04:53:54 I got GPS tracking working, now I have to figure out some way to graphically view the plot Nov 22 04:54:05 he managed to get calls (and sms?) working as long as his laptop was nearby Nov 22 04:54:12 anyone know which US provider will pick up teh FIC openmoko device? Nov 22 04:54:15 the* Nov 22 04:54:36 I'm muddling through the NMEA stuff now, I've got lots of it decoded Nov 22 04:54:52 chillywilly: None right now. Nov 22 04:55:06 Probably not any till hell freezes over either :D Nov 22 04:55:19 there's no plans in the works and/or rumors? Nov 22 04:55:46 Rumors? Well, only GSM providers have a shot Nov 22 04:56:03 So, that's Tmobile and AT&T, if I'm correct. Nov 22 04:56:13 ok Nov 22 04:56:20 I have AT&T Nov 22 04:56:24 nowhistory: plot x and y, gnuplot is basic Nov 22 04:56:37 I should pony up some money and get the kit anyway :) Nov 22 04:57:26 SpeedEvil: hmmm. Good suggestion. I wanted to plot it on a map too, but that will work to give a quick and dirty representation Nov 22 04:57:31 Moniker42: afaik, esd backend will be used. very compatible with any linux. there's vcards in there, very compatible with about the entire world Nov 22 04:57:53 chillywilly: Make sure you have decent 1900Mhz coverage Nov 22 04:59:20 I'm not sure how I can verify that ;) Nov 22 04:59:36 All providers have maps Nov 22 04:59:49 Look for their 1900Mhz one ;0 Nov 22 04:59:51 :) Nov 22 04:59:52 yea, I just don't know where AT&T's coverage map is Nov 22 04:59:58 I'll google it Nov 22 05:00:05 There ya go :) Nov 22 05:00:08 * Kero has another triband phone, easy for testing (ahem) Nov 22 05:00:14 850 won't help for the GTA01 Nov 22 05:00:28 hmm... i think the UK is totally saturated with everything more than a few years old Nov 22 05:00:29 It's not wired to use it. Nov 22 05:01:29 There is speculation abound about 850 for the 02, but no answers have been forthcoming from FIC yet. Nov 22 05:02:15 My humble opinion is that FIC will find a way to make 850 work in the 02, even if it is after the rest of the world phones ship. Nov 22 05:03:48 what type of service would the "1900MHz" band compromise? 3G/broadband services? Nov 22 05:04:00 erm, comprise Nov 22 05:04:44 3G are data services (if i remember the acronyms right) Nov 22 05:05:11 1900Mhz is just the frequency that the radio in your phone uses Nov 22 05:05:16 ok Nov 22 05:05:28 US/North America is 850/1900 Nov 22 05:05:30 This map makes no real distinction Nov 22 05:05:42 http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/ Nov 22 05:06:32 My guess is "good/moderate" are 1900 areas Nov 22 05:06:45 "best" might have a mix. where are you? Nov 22 05:06:56 Sussex, WI 53089 Nov 22 05:07:11 CM, Got error while build openmoko 2007.2 build "make openmoko-devel-image" Eror http://pastebin.ca/793347 Nov 22 05:07:37 near "Milwaukee" ;) Nov 22 05:08:39 Rural is more likely to have 1900 ... Nov 22 05:08:42 chillywilly: Avoid the GTA01, and make sure the GTA02 version you purchase is either US-triband, or quad-band. Nov 22 05:09:04 higher bands travel furher, require more energy, are weaker in general Nov 22 05:09:05 what are the different band again? Nov 22 05:09:36 850, 1900, ... Nov 22 05:09:37 1900 and 850 Nov 22 05:09:42 so what Nov 22 05:09:43 ah Nov 22 05:09:53 1800 and 900 Nov 22 05:09:55 what's a "quad" band phone Nov 22 05:10:10 A GSM phone that does all 4. Nov 22 05:10:14 The US uses 850 and 1900, Europe uses 900 and 1800 (generally). The GTA01 will only do 900, 1800, and 1900 -- European triband. So you'll lose coverage as soon as you leave the Milwaukee area. Nov 22 05:10:22 1800/1900/850/900 Nov 22 05:10:45 ic Nov 22 05:11:04 Well, 850 is used more in urban areas Nov 22 05:11:07 I work downtown ;P Nov 22 05:11:11 downtown Milwaukee Nov 22 05:11:20 more cells/more towers/more callers/better reception Nov 22 05:11:24 The higher frequency of the pair is used in dense metropolitan areas where low coverage is an advantage (keeps cells from interfering when closely placed). 850 is used everywhere else by AT&T because they need far fewer towers that way. Nov 22 05:11:36 so is spend a LOT of time in the city Nov 22 05:12:04 but yea cell coverage seems to be a little spotty out in Sussex/Waukesha County area Nov 22 05:12:53 chillywilly: A true quadband would surf frequencies automatically and pick the best one. The "01" can't do that, only using 1900 Nov 22 05:13:11 ok, plus the wifi also interests me :) Nov 22 05:13:11 (in North America) Nov 22 05:13:23 Ok, that's only in 02 ;0 Nov 22 05:13:29 right Nov 22 05:13:31 Wifi, that is. Nov 22 05:14:37 what type of technology does verizon wireless use? Nov 22 05:15:47 is GSM analog? Nov 22 05:15:49 I think they may be CDMA? Nov 22 05:15:59 so "digital" Nov 22 05:16:04 lol Nov 22 05:16:10 GSM is digital -- it's all digital anymore (analog is killed off by the FCC at the end of december Nov 22 05:16:11 ) Nov 22 05:16:16 I didn't know anyone still used analog :P Nov 22 05:16:27 just looking at their map and they mention digital and analog Nov 22 05:16:44 http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController Nov 22 05:16:59 hehe! My OnStar system in analog. It becomes useless in a month. Nov 22 05:17:03 sorry dude I really don't grok cell phone provider technology Nov 22 05:17:27 That's because its mainly marketing-speak. Nov 22 05:17:55 They throw out terms to obscure what they're really doing, which is generally locking people into proprietary technology. Nov 22 05:17:58 I use wikipedia a lot w/ all the fun acronyms I find :P Nov 22 05:18:20 heh Nov 22 05:18:29 well I know CDMA from basic networking courses :) Nov 22 05:18:43 GSM is the closest thing to an open digital standard out there; AT&T and T-Mobile are the only US carriers that support that. Everyone else is proprietary. Nov 22 05:18:46 Cell phone providers don't want you to compare apples to apples is all Nov 22 05:19:09 ah Nov 22 05:19:28 mwester: huh? then what do they use? can't they roam, then? Nov 22 05:19:34 it was interesting as some buddies in an IRC channel were trashing GSM the other day Nov 22 05:19:42 I was like...OK.. Nov 22 05:19:51 Roaming is just using another network Nov 22 05:20:06 All networks are set up in two bands Nov 22 05:20:15 Kero: nope. If your provider does CDMA, they can only roam to another CDMA provider. Nov 22 05:20:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA Nov 22 05:20:32 lots of interesting links in the right sidebar Nov 22 05:20:43 "Mobile communications standards" Nov 22 05:21:07 hence the funny coverage maps for some of the providers -- they actually like it that way, because they can claim "better coverage" as an advantage rather than compete on pricing or services. Nov 22 05:21:09 mwester: ok, I thought cdma was common enough. wouldn't know about it being proprietary... Nov 22 05:21:17 chillywilly: Every tech has strengths and weaknesses. I guess they don't like GSM 'cause everyone else uses it around the world? :P Nov 22 05:21:35 nowhistory: nah, frequencies were already used in USA Nov 22 05:21:46 Kero: it's proprietary in the sense that you cannot purchase an unlocked CDMA phone and make it work on another CDMA provider's network. Nov 22 05:22:15 so from a standards point of view it sounds as if GSM is actually "better" Nov 22 05:22:29 I think the main grip was data services speeds Nov 22 05:22:35 gripe* Nov 22 05:22:48 We're biased here, but yes, GSM is better from a standards point of view. :) Nov 22 05:22:53 mwester: riiight. doesn't (necessarily) mean the standard is proprietary, but the lock-in sure s*cks Nov 22 05:22:56 Cellular speeds (data) all suck. Nov 22 05:22:58 :D Nov 22 05:23:15 let's all go to Japan and use 3G :) Nov 22 05:23:28 let's not get overly technically detailed, Kero :) Nov 22 05:23:31 your puny quadband Neo is not gonna work there Nov 22 05:23:35 Until recently, we were stuck in the mid-80's with 9600 baud max Nov 22 05:23:57 mwester: why not, it's past midnight ;) Nov 22 05:24:35 ok, real tech q... can i just add a nameserver to /etc/resolv.conf and have it do DNS lookups? :D Nov 22 05:24:45 nowhistory: yes Nov 22 05:25:04 Well, you need a network connection, too... Nov 22 05:25:28 there must be nicer ways to hook DNS into usb0, but so far I;ve just edited /etc/resolv.conf myself Nov 22 05:25:46 T-mobile's UMA thing where the phone can switch from cell network to a wifi network is rather intriguing to me Nov 22 05:26:08 you guys have any plans for supporting such a thing? Nov 22 05:26:16 Kero: Well, it should do DHCP, but I will deal with that in time. :P Nov 22 05:26:19 or is that prop. crap technology ;) Nov 22 05:26:38 Kero: I tried setting up a DHCP server on the other end of the USB network connection, but it was way more trouble than just editing /etc/resolv.conf in the end... Nov 22 05:26:41 chillywilly: You need provider stuff for that. Nov 22 05:27:01 and is it possible to go back from a wifi connection to the cell network? Nov 22 05:27:07 so there's not real open standard? Nov 22 05:27:17 I suppose you could always go with skype Nov 22 05:27:19 * Kero has dhcp server on his little home server. adding the neo-behind-laptop might be easy, might be tricky Nov 22 05:27:59 * mwester wonders if one can bridge instead of route the USB connection... Nov 22 05:28:03 it's routed, it's a pain in the ass Nov 22 05:28:15 Hello Nov 22 05:28:22 chillywilly: no, no open standard Nov 22 05:28:31 Any rough estimates on when the end user phone will be out? Nov 22 05:28:39 chillywilly: it's possible, and it's something we'll look into ... when wifi gets here :) Nov 22 05:28:41 My nokia isn't far from dying Nov 22 05:28:50 * Kero points Dark_Apostrophe to the topic Nov 22 05:28:56 Dark_Apostrophe: Next year sometime? Nov 22 05:28:57 :) Nov 22 05:28:58 Ah, sorry Nov 22 05:29:07 so EDGE, etc. are all just 2.xG technologies that just aren't quite 3G? Nov 22 05:29:12 Damn... I'll have to get another phone in the mean time, then. :( Nov 22 05:29:38 Dark_Apostrophe, the official line is "when it's ready, goddamnit!" Nov 22 05:29:51 Like Debian, eh? :) Nov 22 05:29:55 I just really love to sitch my vonage and have the freedom to connection through a wifi network if possible :) Nov 22 05:29:57 Dark_Apostrophe, no Nov 22 05:29:59 ditch* Nov 22 05:30:00 Dark_Apostrophe, that's never ready. Nov 22 05:30:05 haha Nov 22 05:30:21 Still, I only ask for rough estimates, such as maybe Q1 2008 Nov 22 05:30:41 for #2? Nov 22 05:31:18 just use Ubuntu ;) Nov 22 05:31:36 Eek. Nov 22 05:31:40 No. :) Nov 22 05:31:43 they have fixed release cycles for the most part :) Nov 22 05:31:45 I use Debian Sid. :p Nov 22 05:31:45 chillywilly: :) .. I'm close to that Nov 22 05:32:06 I haven't used Debian in a while really... Nov 22 05:32:11 slackin Nov 22 05:32:12 linuxxr: #2=GTA02? If so, yes Nov 22 05:32:18 ok Nov 22 05:32:23 yea Nov 22 05:32:35 i want 1:) Nov 22 05:32:42 I do too Nov 22 05:32:55 mwester: in my opinion the default /etc/resolv.conf should point to 192.168.0.200 (the normal other endpoint of the USB link). Nov 22 05:33:00 But if my current phone dies before that, and it just might, I'll need to get a different one Nov 22 05:33:02 hey, if Canonical can get their foot in the door and get some companies that use RHEL using a Debian-based distro I'm al for that Nov 22 05:33:08 And then I won't be able to afford the GTA02 Nov 22 05:33:19 rwhitby: That's an easy change to make ;) Nov 22 05:33:22 yea just wait Nov 22 05:33:37 * chillywilly stabs wildly at RHEL ;) Nov 22 05:33:44 Ick. RPM. Nov 22 05:33:55 .tgz Nov 22 05:34:04 Slack. >_< Nov 22 05:34:13 .deb and .ebuild ftw :p Nov 22 05:34:31 @.tgz Nov 22 05:34:42 anyway Nov 22 05:34:49 emacs or vi? Nov 22 05:34:53 j/k Nov 22 05:35:03 ahem... Nov 22 05:35:09 nano? Nov 22 05:35:29 real programmers use "cat" Nov 22 05:35:35 So I'm told, anyway... Nov 22 05:35:37 cat w/ sed Nov 22 05:35:39 <|R> pff real programmers use magnets :P Nov 22 05:35:43 yea! Nov 22 05:35:52 binary sed. Nov 22 05:35:56 So anyway, is Q1 2k8 a realistic timeframe? Nov 22 05:36:21 Dark_Apostrophe: all depends whether the next hardware rev works or not. Nov 22 05:36:28 <|R> no Nov 22 05:36:31 <|R> oops Nov 22 05:36:40 if it's perfect, then it's a realistic timeframe. If it's not, then there's no chance. Nov 22 05:36:46 (and there's the software to think of too) Nov 22 05:36:47 rwhitby: And do you think it will? Nov 22 05:37:03 Dark_Apostrophe: I'm not on the hardware design team, so there is no way that I could know. Nov 22 05:37:04 rwhitby: Is there some RSS feed or something one can sign up to for updates? Nov 22 05:37:19 There are no updates usually. Nov 22 05:37:44 Although Michael Shiloh is doing some now on the community list, and I think he said he was going to send them to the announce list too. Nov 22 05:37:55 does openmoko use ipkg? Nov 22 05:38:26 ~faq Nov 22 05:38:27 faq is, like, frequently asked question... try asking me about "RTFM" Nov 22 05:38:36 ~wiki Nov 22 05:39:06 (i.e. that is information you can easily find on the wiki) Nov 22 05:39:19 I know I could look this up but I am almost alseep ;) Nov 22 05:40:19 I put "ipkg" into the search box on the wiki front page, and got the answer. You could do that faster than typing the question here :-) Nov 22 05:41:05 I got distracted and started reading the "Economist" article when going out looking fro the wiki... Nov 22 05:41:09 for* Nov 22 05:41:16 The real question is... when you run ipkg, can you really come up to date? ;P Nov 22 05:41:31 ipkg update? Nov 22 05:41:35 ;P Nov 22 05:42:07 yes, but up-to-date is broken atm Nov 22 05:42:21 I think you have to run upgrade after that Nov 22 05:42:28 I don't remember Nov 22 05:42:41 Kero: oh, so running update isn't recommended ATM? Nov 22 05:42:41 I'd have to login to my openwrt device ;) Nov 22 05:42:53 you do have to "upgrade" too, yes Nov 22 05:43:33 nope. I did it yesterday, about when someone said it was broken. He was, unfortunately, right. Nov 22 05:43:37 so december for the GTA02 device? Nov 22 05:43:50 that's pretty exciting stuff Nov 22 05:44:01 even the 01 is exciting ;) Nov 22 05:44:24 sure Nov 22 05:44:31 I'll be more excited to get a GPS map going, but one thing at a time :) Nov 22 05:45:23 Here's a tricky question... any way to get the GSM modem to spit out which towers are nearby? Nov 22 05:45:39 (cell towers that is) Nov 22 05:47:35 nowhistory: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem Nov 22 05:47:57 AT%EM, I think Nov 22 05:51:00 rwhitby: I totally agree with you on the resolv.conf file. Think I've asked XorA|gone about it more than once Nov 22 05:52:27 nowhistory: actually, your nick reminds me, over on oftc #osm just a couple of hours ago we were discussing historical maps, and ideally being able to have a date slider alongside zoom slider. that's a long way off yet though :( Nov 22 05:52:37 mwester: Thanks for the pointer ... been a while since i've been to that page, looks like it's been updated Nov 22 05:53:20 Historical maps, eh? Nov 22 05:53:38 I'd like to figure out some neat stuff with mapping layers Nov 22 05:54:22 yeah, it's a bit much to expect servers to start rendering tiles based on date ranges on demand Nov 22 05:56:39 chillywilly: Dec for GTA02 - you're dreaming. Nov 22 05:58:01 cjb_ie: never know :P Nov 22 05:58:18 * CM thinks it might be time to update the topic Nov 22 05:58:34 Hehe, and what's that last part about!?! Nov 22 05:58:36 But it would be pretty neat to have a way to overlay stuff Nov 22 05:58:42 rats Nov 22 05:59:29 ScaredyCat: Why dcoes the topic say "| ScaredyCat sweats in his small bits" in the end? :D Nov 22 05:59:36 *does Nov 22 06:00:05 doc|home: You prankster! :P Nov 22 06:00:07 cause it's humorous? Nov 22 06:00:23 chillywilly: I'm sure it's a fact.. ;) Nov 22 06:00:39 Definitely more truth to it than GTA02 in December Nov 22 06:00:48 :-/ Nov 22 06:03:02 * cjb_ie presumes chillywilly doesn't have the same problem as CM ;-) Nov 22 06:03:25 erm, as ScaredyCat, even Nov 22 06:03:52 cjb_ie: Yeah, tease the right guy here please ;) Nov 22 06:04:07 I'm not sure what that saying actually means but I think I have a good idea Nov 22 06:04:13 ;P Nov 22 06:10:12 I'm curious, is there an expectation that providers will pick up the product or are direct sales more likely to occur and people will just pop their SIM card in Nov 22 06:11:57 i dunno about you lot, but i bought about my last four phones sim free Nov 22 06:12:37 well I have the cheapest freakin cell phone right now ;) Nov 22 06:12:40 it really sucks Nov 22 06:12:44 it's a nokia 3120 ;P Nov 22 06:14:51 over the last ten years or so i've had nokia 9000i, handspring visorphone, sonyericsson p800, p910i, and now treo 680 Nov 22 06:15:33 actually the last three were all second hand (but sim free) Nov 22 06:16:10 so does it use an SD card or what? Nov 22 06:16:24 the treo? yup Nov 22 06:16:33 Moto Timeport, Treo 180, Treo 250, Treo 600, Treo 650. Nov 22 06:28:37 hi! is there some problem with projects.openmoko.org? Nov 22 06:28:46 I get Permission denied (publickey). when I try to log in Nov 22 06:32:29 could anybody here try to access projects.openmoko.org via ssh? Nov 22 06:39:15 please? Nov 22 06:39:24 OpenMoko needs some advertising with the same quality as MS had for DOS 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEvPZUdAVI Nov 22 06:44:12 CM, give me 20 hot chicks and cnsider this job done Nov 22 06:44:26 josch: Hehe Nov 22 06:45:04 is there anywhere a list of openembedded distro capable devices? Nov 22 06:45:39 Not that I know of, but maybe on openembedded.org Nov 22 06:45:52 cm: >:) Nov 22 06:45:59 :D Nov 22 06:46:03 and then there is still this projects.openmoko.org problem Nov 22 06:46:05 hehe Nov 22 06:46:19 so, I'm got a n800. it rocks everything that came before it :| Nov 22 06:46:21 is nobody here with a project on this server? Nov 22 06:46:48 longer battery life would have been nice but you can't have everything :/ Nov 22 06:46:58 mbuf: You have one don't you? Nov 22 06:48:19 CM, yes, a couple Nov 22 06:48:37 josch, what is the problem? i don't have any Nov 22 06:48:53 mbuf, thx will try again Nov 22 06:49:06 CM, just released "Preity-Plugin" beta-1, check it out, https://projects.openmoko.org/projects/preity-plugin/ Nov 22 06:49:18 mbuf: I know, read your mail yesterday :) Nov 22 06:49:35 CM, ohh ok; yet to do installation/testing, will work on it Nov 22 06:49:36 Haven't tried it though, got anjuta installed yesterday Nov 22 06:50:51 okay if I do ssh josch@mokopedia.projects.openmoko.org I get Permission denied (publickey). Nov 22 06:51:02 do I do sth wrong? Nov 22 06:51:37 josch, you need to upload your ssh publickey Nov 22 06:52:22 mbuf, since when? Nov 22 06:52:26 and where? Nov 22 06:52:30 josch, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-October/001638.html Nov 22 06:52:51 ha! -_- Nov 22 06:53:43 ah I understand now - I reinstalled my laptop so my key changed Nov 22 06:53:56 forgot that I had to upload sth Nov 22 06:54:03 but the old one is there Nov 22 06:55:06 josch, give it an hour or so, for the server to update the same, from the time you upload the key Nov 22 06:56:03 done - thx mbuf Nov 22 06:56:58 josch, np Nov 22 06:57:12 * CM files that info into the brain for later reference. Nov 22 06:59:29 anyone here from Berlin? Nov 22 07:00:56 notserpe: The om guys had a meeting there yesterday ;) Nov 22 07:01:38 I was thinking of heading there for 24C3 and want some advice Nov 22 07:02:01 i know abunch of mokohackers are from there it would seem Nov 22 07:03:00 notserpe: Some here at least: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin Nov 22 07:04:44 ah, roh is from there. I'll try to talk with him Nov 22 07:20:01 * * OM Bug 1019 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net Nov 22 07:20:02 * * Possible cross-compiler bug involving type coercion Nov 22 07:20:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1019 Nov 22 07:21:59 mmontour: Hehe, how did you figure that one out? Nov 22 07:22:33 After a couple of hours of beating my head against the wall for why one of my GPS test progs wasn't working. Nov 22 07:35:44 mmontour, indeed a tricky bug ^^ Nov 22 07:50:21 mmontour: Btw, shouldn't that bug be in openembedded bugzilla instead/too? I guess it would affect everyone using oe.. Nov 22 07:59:11 morning Nov 22 08:03:15 good morning Nov 22 08:04:32 orly Nov 22 08:22:10 CM: you made some comment about resolv.conf but Ive no idea what context? Nov 22 08:22:41 XorA: rwhitby wondered earlier why there was no default one in the rootfs Nov 22 08:22:46 CM: there is Nov 22 08:22:52 There is? Nov 22 08:22:57 Since when? Nov 22 08:23:02 CM: since 3 days ago Nov 22 08:23:06 Ah, heh Nov 22 08:23:16 I think you did say something about it Nov 22 08:23:26 My current image is from the evening on the 18th Nov 22 08:23:28 CM: there is an up statement on usb that creates it when interface goes up Nov 22 08:23:39 Ah, nice. Nov 22 08:24:16 What's in it? Nov 22 08:24:19 took me a while to realise busybox ifup doesnt understand post-up :-) Nov 22 08:24:25 hehe Nov 22 08:24:34 echo nameserver 192.168.0.200 >/etc/resolv.conf Nov 22 08:24:52 *nod* Same as I do after every reflash :) Nov 22 08:25:00 Thanks Nov 22 08:25:18 * XorA fixed the resolv.conf handling so pppd works as well :-) Nov 22 08:25:21 rwhitby: See? ^^ :) Nov 22 09:39:39 FIC hired anyone else instead of Welte yet ? Nov 22 09:48:35 CVirus: I've noticed that some bugs assigned to LaF0rge has now been moved over to michael@openmoko.org Nov 22 09:48:56 1has anyone tried usb-networking with the neo? :D Nov 22 09:49:05 CM: that is mickey .. right ? Nov 22 09:49:17 Yes, I assume so Nov 22 09:49:17 xcasex, it should work by default? Nov 22 09:49:27 mbuf: excellent :) Nov 22 09:50:10 xcasex: Since 3 days ago a default resolv.conf will even be created when you plug in the usb :) Nov 22 09:50:22 CM: impressive :) Nov 22 09:50:27 xcasex: I assume you've seen the page in the wiki Nov 22 09:50:49 CM: nope. havent had time to do anything recreational in three days :) Nov 22 09:51:02 xcasex: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Nov 22 09:51:45 No news about the GTA02v5 yet ? Nov 22 09:51:48 xcasex, seeing the wiki is not recreational? :p Nov 22 09:52:07 CM: is that definately the case? Nov 22 09:52:10 mbuf: it is if i'm at a clients migrating windows machines to ubuntu :p Nov 22 09:52:48 oh .. ScaredyCat is here ... No more stupid questions for me Nov 22 09:53:00 ScaredyCat: Hmm.. *whistle innocently* Nov 22 09:53:08 wha!? Nov 22 09:53:28 CVirus: See topic.. :D Nov 22 09:53:35 hehe Nov 22 09:54:07 cm: are you useing !ScaredyCat images and getting a resolv.conf ? Nov 22 09:54:51 ScaredyCat: Honestly haven't tried that yet, but XorA said it works now Nov 22 09:55:11 09:23 CM: there is an up statement on usb that creates it when interface goes up Nov 22 09:55:25 ok, I'm just trying to establish if I have to keep generating a defualt one in my builds Nov 22 09:56:05 looks like not... Nov 22 09:56:33 Btw, I thought your first question was about a comment I did around 06:58 Nov 22 10:03:07 I didn;t see it... Nov 22 10:04:12 * ScaredyCat scrollback is only to 7 am is [07:15] actually the last three were all second hand (but sim free) Nov 22 10:04:24 * ScaredyCat pokes CM Nov 22 10:04:40 !logs Nov 22 10:04:41 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Nov 22 10:04:42 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Nov 22 10:04:43 Live-logs are available at Nov 22 10:04:45 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Nov 22 10:04:47 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Nov 22 10:06:33 Just flashed in a kernel/rootfs on my moko from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D Nov 22 10:07:09 It doesn't boot X, and ipkg fails due to one of the repo urls are missing (404) Nov 22 10:07:17 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/neo1973/Packages.gz Nov 22 10:10:31 (so the question is, is that an important repo or is it ok to just remove it for the moment) Nov 22 10:16:23 03dodji * r3473 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokojournal2/mokojournal-tool/mokojournal-tool.c: Nov 22 10:16:23 Commented out _add() in mokojournal-tool.c Nov 22 10:16:23 Was causing an undefined symbol Nov 22 10:35:00 * * OM Bug 1020 has been created by graeme(AT)openmoko.org Nov 22 10:35:01 * * Investigate Upstart in OpenMoko Nov 22 10:35:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1020 Nov 22 10:37:31 What to do if wget is a directory? Nov 22 10:37:44 ... /usr/bin/wget/Xcms.txt Nov 22 10:37:46 o_O Nov 22 10:37:55 -r? Nov 22 10:38:03 chkrootkit? Nov 22 10:38:20 on the moko Nov 22 10:38:38 on the neo even, in moko Nov 22 10:39:32 last img i tried, libX11.so.6/Xcms.txt existed. sounds a bit broken. anyway, it would be nice if someone could upload their wget somewhere so that I can upgrade. Nov 22 10:41:59 got the file from a friend, nevermind. Nov 22 10:54:33 atul:hi Nov 22 10:55:17 ckn_2k2, hi Nov 22 10:55:23 looks like randr is farked Nov 22 11:00:37 hello community Nov 22 11:01:40 hi Nov 22 11:02:03 I am at work and cannot access my openmoko build dir Nov 22 11:02:30 but I need to know where glibc sources are fetched and if there are any patches. Anyone can help? Nov 22 11:03:33 if i'm on a dualcore machine and like to use parallel make, should i use "-j 4" like it is in the wiki or should i adjust the "4" to my number of cpu core? Nov 22 11:10:04 dread I would use 2 and add BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "2" Nov 22 11:11:07 Ghiottone|work: ok, as i assumed ;-) thank you Nov 22 11:11:20 Ghiottone|work: there are patches Nov 22 11:12:23 borg_ is there an URI for sources and patches? I need to look at them via web Nov 22 11:12:27 in openembedded/packages/glib-2.0/glib-2.0-2.14.1/ Nov 22 11:12:34 ah Nov 22 11:12:37 dont know :) Nov 22 11:12:43 how you can find them via web Nov 22 11:12:47 i am at work too ;) Nov 22 11:12:57 borg_ that is glib but I need glibc Nov 22 11:13:21 ouh Nov 22 11:13:23 sry :) Nov 22 11:13:29 borg_ oh thanks. I need them now as the elf statifier developer is working to port it to the neo Nov 22 11:13:54 openembedded/packages/glibc/glibc-2.5/ Nov 22 11:14:16 there are some pateches too :) Nov 22 11:14:22 could you please use a pastebin to let me look at the recipe? Nov 22 11:20:22 http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/glibc_2.7.bb Nov 22 11:21:36 * nox-Hand wants news on teh GTA02 :P Nov 22 11:21:48 * nox-Hand won't get it and shalln't ask, no tto worry. Nov 22 11:23:02 * hrw wants kernel for gta01 which will use my microsd card Nov 22 11:27:30 Ghiottone|work: elf statifier, really, cool, that could make glllin a lot easier to produce Nov 22 11:29:38 borg_ thanks a lot! Nov 22 11:30:02 XorA yes. that was the idea behind my asking him to port it to the neo Nov 22 11:30:29 it's not much of an issue to run it atm though Nov 22 11:30:39 but it would probably make it nicer Nov 22 11:30:47 XorA after mickeyl said he was interested in the technical result we started working Nov 22 11:31:04 Ghiottone|work: yeah I brought up elf statifier at OEDEM Nov 22 11:31:20 ScaredyCat: if it was statified we could package it Nov 22 11:31:26 what's an elf statifier then? Nov 22 11:31:50 SpeedEvil: the name is self explanatory :-) Nov 22 11:31:53 converts santa's elves to different sorts Nov 22 11:32:20 afaik it allows relinking of apps build with static libs to dynamic ones Nov 22 11:32:27 built Nov 22 11:32:40 or theother way round Nov 22 11:32:54 the other way round would be logical Nov 22 11:33:03 /home/kristoffer/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/audio/audio.c:1917: fatal error: opening dependency file audio/audio.d: No such file or directory Nov 22 11:33:20 How am i supposed to get that file? (Trying to do make qemu) Nov 22 11:33:30 Do i have to compile the whole thing again after doing make update? Nov 22 11:33:31 who brok the x server build! Nov 22 11:33:37 ScaredyCat: qemu? Nov 22 11:33:50 me? no... Nov 22 11:33:59 ScaredyCat: which machine you build for? Nov 22 11:34:05 x86 Nov 22 11:34:07 on Nov 22 11:34:12 ScaredyCat: Im just testing the fix for that, commit in 10 mins Nov 22 11:34:19 ahh k Nov 22 11:35:09 XorA you brought it up? what was the result? Nov 22 11:36:44 with sshd running on the Neo, is it possible to connect to the Neo from the host system using dbus, from a GTK+ application? if yes, how? Nov 22 11:38:11 can you do dbus over tcp/ip? Nov 22 11:38:31 if so, you could use a seperate tunnel Nov 22 11:40:09 SpeedEvil, but, what would be the service name for ssh? Nov 22 11:41:13 Ghiottone|work: not much as we didnt think an arm version was imminent Nov 22 12:04:56 looks like the taiwanese office needs a heavy thwap on the head Nov 22 12:05:45 xcasex: wazzup? Nov 22 12:06:08 someone made a joke in a official looking email about my order grr :p Nov 22 12:06:48 what kind of joke? :P Nov 22 12:07:49 ScaredyCat: fix pushed Nov 22 12:08:43 flexd: fat cats in america and that causing my neo to be delivered after the weekend :( Nov 22 12:11:45 lol :D Nov 22 12:11:56 but why order a phone now? Why not wait for gta02 :/? Nov 22 12:12:41 * nox-Hand would wait, too Nov 22 12:13:04 The wait is outweighed the advantages Nov 22 12:13:08 by the* >_> Nov 22 12:13:14 It's like having a xbox 360 days from being released, and then buy a old xbox.. :P Nov 22 12:14:00 at least old xbox runs linux Nov 22 12:15:34 flexd: at least qemu is available so no such need for real device Nov 22 12:15:47 hrw: mhm, i'm trying to compile it now Nov 22 12:16:17 especially when gta01 is... argh often Nov 22 12:16:58 ah sick days are the best Nov 22 12:16:58 tss. when gta02 gets out, i'll order it. Nov 22 12:17:22 ta XorA Nov 22 12:17:27 other than ssh is there any other method of transfering files from host to target Neo? Nov 22 12:17:28 i have a headache and my throat hurts, but then again i have a warm bed, assasins creed on my 360, qemu compiling and irc to talk to people! :D Nov 22 12:17:39 second battery + charger is nearly required, you have to get phone with you when you want to buy microsd card... Nov 22 12:18:12 but at least those who buy gta01 gets microsd card with device so maybe they get working one Nov 22 12:19:20 03chris * r3474 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Nov 22 12:19:20 * src/Makefile.am: Nov 22 12:19:20 Add new files sms-compose.[ch] and sms-utils.[ch] Nov 22 12:19:20 * src/sms-compose.c: (page_shown), (page_hidden), Nov 22 12:19:20 (notify_visible_cb), (visibility_notify_event_cb), (unmap_cb), Nov 22 12:19:22 (send_clicked_cb), (sms_compose_page_new): Nov 22 12:19:24 * src/sms-compose.h: Nov 22 12:23:51 back Nov 22 12:24:18 XorA well it was not imminent before I asked the developer if he was interested in porting it to the Neo. Nov 22 12:24:44 XorA but now he is interested and working since monday. Good progress has been made Nov 22 12:24:50 hrw: Ive have microSD with all my GTA01 did you not? Nov 22 12:25:01 Ghiottone|work: well pass on a woo woo from me :-) Nov 22 12:25:12 XorA sure! :) Nov 22 12:26:53 XorA: with gta01v3 I got 128MB card. gta01bv4 came nearly naked Nov 22 12:27:15 hrw: yeah but bv3 was supposed to go in bin when bv4 arrived :-) Nov 22 12:27:38 bv3 will make a very nice gsm sms gateway thank you very much. Nov 22 12:28:31 XorA: anyway I have 1GB card which is useless in neo Nov 22 12:28:49 all my devices see that card but not neo Nov 22 12:29:10 which suxx because it is reallly hard to fit in 64M flash on neo Nov 22 12:29:14 hrw: well crack out your printk debugging and fix it, my 512M Kingston worked until card died Nov 22 12:30:08 XorA: maybe one day Nov 22 12:30:24 hrw: and what you complaining of you used to have a collie :-D Nov 22 12:30:36 hrw: 2 years and you forget how to fit in 16M :-) Nov 22 12:31:28 XorA: with collie I had /opt/ on cf card Nov 22 12:31:43 XorA: wit neo I cannot put stuff on card because it does not work Nov 22 12:34:15 and fighting with sd/mmc card is something which I do not like to do Nov 22 12:34:44 I can probably get to the moment when it will work for my card but patch will have hardcoded timeouts Nov 22 12:42:57 03chris * r3475 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Nov 22 12:42:57 * Makefile.am: Nov 22 12:42:57 * configure.ac: Nov 22 12:42:57 * data/Makefile.am: Nov 22 12:42:57 * data/openmoko-messages.desktop: Nov 22 12:42:58 Add a .desktop entry Nov 22 12:45:01 meh Nov 22 12:45:08 still broken XorA Nov 22 12:46:34 http://pastebin.ca/793604 Nov 22 12:49:03 03chris * r3476 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Nov 22 12:49:03 * src/today-launcher.c: (item_added_cb): Nov 22 12:49:03 * src/today-main.c: (today_messages_button_clicked_cb), Nov 22 12:49:03 (today_create_home_page): Nov 22 12:49:03 * src/today-pim-journal.c: (unread_messages_button_press_cb): Nov 22 12:49:04 * src/today.h: Nov 22 12:49:06 Enable openmoko-messages launcher Nov 22 13:18:03 Please dont tell me im doing another 12h build? Nov 22 13:18:16 I started it a while ago (after make update), now it's generating locales Nov 22 13:19:10 flexd: Didn't you set ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in your local.conf? Nov 22 13:19:17 you should disable the locales Nov 22 13:19:22 >_< Nov 22 13:19:26 like what he said ^^^^^ Nov 22 13:19:34 i havent touched my local.conf Nov 22 13:19:41 i just wanna compile qemu with the latest image :/ Nov 22 13:19:46 ~fish flexd Nov 22 13:19:46 Hehe.. glibc is updated in oe Nov 22 13:19:47 * apt slaps flexd around with a large trout Nov 22 13:20:00 gggrrrrrr Nov 22 13:20:05 where do i find my local.conf then? Nov 22 13:20:11 build/conf Nov 22 13:20:57 anything else i need to do? Nov 22 13:20:59 to speed this up Nov 22 13:21:39 that'll save at least an hour Nov 22 13:22:18 hmm Nov 22 13:22:21 I've built this before Nov 22 13:22:28 so it shouldnt do the whole thing again i hope >_> Nov 22 13:23:21 flexd: as I said, it's just rebuilding glibc because it's updated in oe Nov 22 13:23:37 So no 12h, but maybe 1.5 ;) Nov 22 13:23:49 If X compiles that is.. Nov 22 13:23:59 * ScaredyCat shakes head Nov 22 13:24:04 :( Nov 22 13:24:05 * ScaredyCat points up Nov 22 13:24:21 I saw it, just hoped some magic had just happened ;) Nov 22 13:25:20 it didn't Nov 22 13:25:26 there wasn't Nov 22 13:25:35 although Xora said there was and it would Nov 22 13:31:32 ScaredyCat: oh, thats a different problem to the one that was just fixed Nov 22 13:32:00 :( Nov 22 13:32:17 can you unfix the other one and fix this one instead then :) Nov 22 13:32:35 well the other one would bit you as well Nov 22 13:40:08 got "Binder driver protocol does not match user space protocol!" Nov 22 13:41:07 gtk+fastscaling-2.10-14-r1: task do_populate_staging: started Nov 22 13:41:21 ScaredyCat: shit I think the angstrom versions bump has brought in incompatible X includes Nov 22 13:41:24 approx where am i on the build then? :P there should be a progress bar or something! Nov 22 13:54:07 flexd: there is a progress indicator, look for lines starting with "NOTE: Running task" Nov 22 13:59:42 ScaredyCat: what versions of libxrender and renderproto built for you? Nov 22 14:00:42 03chris * r3477 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c): Nov 22 14:00:42 * src/sms-compose.c: (send_clicked_cb): Nov 22 14:00:42 Check if message is NULL, only switch page back on successful send and Nov 22 14:00:42 empty text entry after sending text Nov 22 14:09:10 ScaredyCat: Ive tracked the problem down Nov 22 14:10:02 I'll test it too if you want Nov 22 14:11:37 demaledetti: oh i see it now Nov 22 14:11:47 Running task 4368 of 5037 :/ Nov 22 14:12:03 Running task 4917 of 5037 Nov 22 14:12:22 did you get a 404 right before the libjana stuff too? Nov 22 14:12:36 it's still compiling Nov 22 14:12:39 i just saw a 404 error fly by Nov 22 14:13:04 Some of those go by, but usually nothing to worry about Nov 22 14:13:25 It will just pick from some other source Nov 22 14:15:00 hi Nov 22 14:15:01 * * OM Bug 1021 has been created by yoyo(AT)ghost.pl Nov 22 14:15:02 * * xserver-kdrive Nov 22 14:15:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1021 Nov 22 14:15:11 :) good cdbot2 :) Nov 22 14:15:54 yoyo: working on that now Nov 22 14:16:18 XorA: super Nov 22 14:16:29 yoyo: there is a quick fix Nov 22 14:16:39 yoyo: but I need to find how and why this happened Nov 22 14:16:40 XorA: yes Nov 22 14:18:50 weary weird Nov 22 14:20:44 I didn't get that error here, the build just ended fine Nov 22 14:23:12 to rebuild something from armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi I need to delete what ? make clean-package-linux-gnueabi? Nov 22 14:24:11 why does make flash-qemu-local download pre-built images even if make openmoko-devel-image just finished building an image? Nov 22 14:25:13 demaledetti: use make qemu-local Nov 22 14:26:34 CM: aha, great, thanks Nov 22 14:29:07 borg_ ping? Nov 22 14:29:38 borg_ is there also the bb file for the 2.5 version of glibc? Nov 22 14:33:01 Ghiottone|work: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/bb/ Nov 22 14:37:58 borg_ thanks again Nov 22 14:50:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stgA7gB7quY Nov 22 14:52:00 :) see a cs time Nov 22 14:54:55 hi Nov 22 14:56:50 are the hardware buttons really that hard to press/use? Nov 22 14:57:07 the can be Nov 22 14:57:28 but at least that means they're not used accidentally :-) Nov 22 14:57:40 ok Nov 22 15:06:25 task 5036 of 5037 started! Nov 22 15:06:26 :O Nov 22 15:13:23 err Nov 22 15:13:25 all this Nov 22 15:13:42 and it fails on "opening dependency file auto/audio.d: No such file or directory" Nov 22 15:13:56 in qemu directory Nov 22 15:30:10 ~lart oyter cards Nov 22 15:30:11 * apt pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps oyter cards Nov 22 15:30:20 ~lart oyster cards Nov 22 15:30:20 * apt shoots oyster cards in his sleep Nov 22 15:32:47 Rail tickets? Nov 22 15:33:01 CM: yeah, I want to top up for 3 days, but website is down Nov 22 15:33:23 I wonder why it's always like that.. Nov 22 15:33:52 Anything related to transport on rail have homepages that barely work. Nov 22 15:34:30 CM: or as all the .eu people found at guadec, you can buy rail tickets in any country that has a valid UK postcode Nov 22 15:34:44 Hehe Nov 22 15:35:26 although koen did find the secret webpage with super cheap fairs for foreigners Nov 22 15:35:35 so I booked from that for him and us :-) Nov 22 15:36:01 XorA: url? Nov 22 15:36:33 hrw: if you go to standard virgin site, you will see it, you are outside uk Nov 22 15:36:53 hrw: I had to get koen to send me a screen shot, then I used the info on that to find the train the UK version of the site didnt show Nov 22 15:47:14 03chris * r3478 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-utils.c): Nov 22 15:47:14 * src/today-utils.c: (today_toolbutton_new): Nov 22 15:47:14 Use GTK_ICON_SIZE_LARGE_TOOLBAR instead of DIALOG for toolbar icons Nov 22 16:02:34 hni folks Nov 22 16:03:47 hi mickeyl Nov 22 16:04:24 hi mickey, what's the news Nov 22 16:14:04 mickeyl as in Michaelshiloh or some other mickey? Nov 22 16:14:24 http://planet.openmoko.org Nov 22 16:15:21 Ah, ok. :) Nov 22 16:15:34 * haakeyar hungry for community update :) Nov 22 16:16:13 join the group. Nov 22 16:17:56 hi Nov 22 16:18:15 how do i install mplayer? is there an ipkg somewhere? Nov 22 16:19:28 Anybody knows what's taking it so long? "and will come up with more updates and questions for you shortly." Nov 22 16:19:55 Writchie: phoneserver and lowlevel daemon cooperation due soon Nov 22 16:19:59 * haakeyar will try to be patient and stop asking Nov 22 16:20:02 LiPS / Kernel Concepts Nov 22 16:22:54 mickeyl: Do you know where i can find/fix audio.d when trying to compile qemu? Nov 22 16:23:18 no, sorry, i have yet to work w/ qemu Nov 22 16:23:21 it cant find audio/audio.d in the qemu directory, but where am i supposed to get it from? >_> Nov 22 16:23:24 ah Nov 22 16:23:50 (it was actually a full OM compile that gave me that error) Nov 22 16:24:00 mickeyl: is anyone besides me working on the kernel gsm multiplexer Nov 22 16:24:30 are the mailing lists broken? Nov 22 16:29:55 Writchie: i don't think so. are you basing this on motorola MUX work? Nov 22 16:31:28 mickeyl: no, its from scratch. Calypso uses different options and the motorola has custom mods - Nov 22 16:32:37 it does use line discilines and ttys for the ports but can support multiple muxes at the same time and handles either end. Nov 22 16:33:12 hmm interesting Nov 22 16:33:18 initial release wil be calypso only but in future it can be extended to any compatible (or even the moto modified) set of options Nov 22 16:33:23 i think there is some work done by the OpenEZX guys Nov 22 16:33:33 it would be a shame if we would end up with different kernel solutions Nov 22 16:33:44 so could you try to sync. your approach with these guys? Nov 22 16:33:54 Writchie: how far are you? Nov 22 16:34:14 the driver is almost running Nov 22 16:34:33 i worked in userland first to get the quirks on the calypso Nov 22 16:34:59 i reported this on a few weeks ago on the gsm list but got no responses. Nov 22 16:35:49 that's because there was no maintainer Nov 22 16:35:53 there is one now Nov 22 16:36:01 maintainer of what? Nov 22 16:36:03 gsmd Nov 22 16:36:06 and kernel Nov 22 16:36:17 gsmd is maintained again Nov 22 16:36:18 kernel not yet Nov 22 16:36:19 gsmd needs a designer first! Nov 22 16:36:25 erm Nov 22 16:36:29 *shrug* Nov 22 16:37:16 in any case i'm working bottom up - if you don't have mutliple ports you have a real ugly gsmd or its equivalent Nov 22 16:37:46 good Nov 22 16:37:49 try to be constructive Nov 22 16:37:56 if you have a solid MUX solution at kernel Nov 22 16:38:04 gsmd team can reconsider the design Nov 22 16:38:09 in the meantime we need to ship a product though Nov 22 16:38:16 which is why we are tweaking it to work Nov 22 16:38:17 :) Nov 22 16:38:28 the present gsmd can run on one port of the mux Nov 22 16:38:46 and then we can break things off one by one starting with ppp and fax Nov 22 16:39:22 all the unsolicited stuff can be confined to one port. Nov 22 16:39:25 sounds like a plan to me Nov 22 16:39:28 a good plan Nov 22 16:39:46 who is kernel maintainer now? Nov 22 16:39:48 please note that this particular gsmd design was never expected to last that long Nov 22 16:39:59 i understand Nov 22 16:40:15 but before it could be rewritten, hell started Nov 22 16:40:16 anyways Nov 22 16:40:28 the kernel team has not refound yet Nov 22 16:40:36 which is why kernel patches may stall for a bit Nov 22 16:40:52 FWIH harald was right about the mux belonging in the kernel. Nov 22 16:40:53 but .tw is working on regrouping a kernel team Nov 22 16:41:02 s/FWIH/FWIW/ Nov 22 16:41:02 Writchie meant: FWIW harald was right about the mux belonging in the kernel. Nov 22 16:41:22 Writchie: yes. I trust LaF0rge assessments 100% when it comes to system level design Nov 22 16:42:21 mickeyl: but only because of the peculiarities of the linux tty subsytem. Nov 22 16:43:31 mickeyl: on the kernel side, suspend/resume is probably the critical issue. Nov 22 16:44:01 agreed. Nov 22 16:46:37 mickeyl: is there a uboot maintainer? Nov 22 16:47:01 same as kernel. right now the system level position is de facto unoccupied. Nov 22 16:47:14 we're working hard to fix that Nov 22 16:47:18 but good system level people are rare Nov 22 16:48:33 mickeyl: who's steering this ship? Nov 22 16:49:32 hmm Nov 22 16:49:35 what should i answer here? Nov 22 16:49:51 delevopers? you? Nov 22 16:49:53 i'm still employed by OM, so you can't expect me to criticize them too much Nov 22 16:50:14 mickeyl: say, "jack Sparrow" :-) Nov 22 16:50:29 mickey1: well you donp Nov 22 16:50:42 don't want to critize your employer =P* Nov 22 16:51:51 mickeyl: OK, so who is it (if anybody) in OM/FIC that wants to make lots of $$$ Nov 22 16:52:04 Writchie: everyone? Nov 22 16:52:13 thos: unfortuantely, not true Nov 22 16:52:14 Writchie: that has to be the most stupid quest i've EVER heard...?? Nov 22 16:52:23 question* Nov 22 16:52:33 Writchie: or do you mean, who wants OpenMoko to make $$$? Nov 22 16:53:03 thos: i think he is saying people who are employed by OpenMoko Nov 22 16:53:04 OM, at least up to know, has been more philosophically driven than $ drive. Nov 22 16:53:24 * XorA wants $$$ Nov 22 16:53:25 s/know/now/ Nov 22 16:53:25 Writchie meant: OM, at least up to now, has been more philosophically driven than $ drive. Nov 22 16:53:42 all your $$$ are belong to me Nov 22 16:54:29 its cat. lol Nov 22 16:55:19 hi Nov 22 16:56:10 Writchie: you're right Nov 22 16:56:14 I'm afraid this has to change a bit Nov 22 16:56:47 OM will be more driven by staying in business than it was before. The FOSS voice inside OM will try to keep this on a healthy balance though... Nov 22 16:56:50 _try_ Nov 22 16:57:57 once you get mass marketed you should be okay, just make sure you always keep OpenMoko open source Nov 22 16:58:16 that's a given Nov 22 16:58:25 but given the popularity of OM, gta01 sold lousy Nov 22 16:58:41 I'm 100% sure gta02 will sell much better though Nov 22 16:58:44 to the same audienc Nov 22 16:58:45 e Nov 22 16:58:50 but marketing things different... Nov 22 16:59:01 well, possibily cause most people don't know how to work debug boards and program as well Nov 22 16:59:15 Well - part of that problem is the lack of focus on basic issues - a basic working phone would have increased sales lots. Nov 22 16:59:19 IMO Nov 22 16:59:20 holy crap, I just managed to get a call through to my neo! Nov 22 16:59:26 ditto Nov 22 16:59:37 Over those that are willing to buy an unfunctional dev-board. Nov 22 16:59:57 SpeedEvil: i agree. from that point, gta01 should have not been on sale Nov 22 17:00:03 mickeyl: lots of GTA01 customers were scared off by having to click through all of the "YES_I_DO_REALLY_WANT_IT" warnings. :) Nov 22 17:00:04 in June Nov 22 17:00:05 but now Nov 22 17:00:19 mickeyl, the hardware is still broken. Nov 22 17:00:27 Writchie: there were some patches adapting gsmd to multiple DLCs on the list already, they looked ok to me Nov 22 17:00:29 namely, the GSM 850 breakage. Nov 22 17:00:33 and the 3G sim breakage. Nov 22 17:00:40 orospakr: 3g is software Nov 22 17:00:45 yeah, I know. Nov 22 17:00:45 gsm 850 is major hw design fuckup Nov 22 17:00:52 but not user flashable. Nov 22 17:00:53 basically Nov 22 17:00:53 impossible to fix easily Nov 22 17:01:04 mickeyl, as in, even hacking the GSM firmware won't do it? Nov 22 17:01:04 meh I get 1900 in the blue ridge mountains Nov 22 17:01:11 Writchie: although i agree that the kernel multiplexer submitted to gsmd-devel wouldn't be reusable on the Neo1973 Nov 22 17:01:13 mickeyl: yes 850 was a screw the pooch Nov 22 17:01:18 I dunno about you but if the phone works while hiking 50 miles from the nearest town ... Nov 22 17:01:18 Crofton|home: no Nov 22 17:01:29 cros: it needs hardware changes to do 850 Nov 22 17:01:35 Writchie: but i think there are more parties working on the kernel-side muxing Nov 22 17:01:37 u-lap: america is 1900 Nov 22 17:01:40 cros: which probably can't be done in the field Nov 22 17:01:46 massive hardware changes + new CE Nov 22 17:01:47 I'm in Canada Nov 22 17:01:52 s/CE/FCC/ Nov 22 17:01:53 mickeyl meant: massive hardware changes + new FCC Nov 22 17:01:58 but yes, 1900 is much more important in the city, where I live. Nov 22 17:02:14 Writchie: are you following the api sketched by harald? Nov 22 17:02:20 mickeyl: I was meaning for a 3 band phone with 850 - which according to roh isn't hard Nov 22 17:02:28 balrog-kun: what api? Nov 22 17:02:45 SpeedEvil: yes, for a new phone. Nov 22 17:02:48 yeah, the departure of Harald bothers me a bit. Nov 22 17:03:02 Writchie: that in his ts0710 patch from the openmoko kernel patchset Nov 22 17:03:02 SpeedEvil: i doubt it is economically doable on an existing one Nov 22 17:03:05 think about the costs Nov 22 17:03:08 mickeyl: alledgedly it's a simple filter change - just put a different one on the board Nov 22 17:03:16 Hello, anyone knows about what happened to pipermail on lists.openmoko.org ? Nov 22 17:03:28 SpeedEvil: FCC cert. alone will take long and eat money Nov 22 17:03:29 the pages were last generated at 20.11. Nov 22 17:03:33 I know about the costs - I don't know how hard taking the can off the GSM bit is. yeah. Nov 22 17:03:36 Writchie: he made a quite nice generic api for mlutiplexers, it just had no implementation Nov 22 17:03:39 costs per item rather Nov 22 17:03:42 not FCC Nov 22 17:04:20 balrog-kun: if its what it's the gsmmux directory - that was an implementation - just a placeholder pretty much Nov 22 17:04:52 Writchie: yeah, do you follow that api? Nov 22 17:04:56 someone submitted an implementation, but it didn't at all match the calypso. Nov 22 17:05:14 what's the default ssh user on the images? Nov 22 17:05:35 ah, root/moko Nov 22 17:05:42 balrog-kun: i didn't like the idea of a line discpline that can only have one instance. Nov 22 17:05:59 the submitted implementation didn't use any of the stuff from the laf0rge's patch as far as i looked at it Nov 22 17:06:10 where's the gsm log? Nov 22 17:06:12 the one with gsmmux directory Nov 22 17:06:18 if there is one by default? Nov 22 17:06:26 orospakr: /tmp/gsm.log Nov 22 17:06:34 balrog-kun: so my version can be attached to any tty to great a mux Nov 22 17:06:44 it also provides N tty ports. Nov 22 17:06:56 and an ioctl assigned mux ports to tty's. Nov 22 17:06:59 Writchie: laf0rge's patch doesn't restrict the number of instances, quite the opposite Nov 22 17:07:56 who should i talk to if im having trouble with qemu? Nov 22 17:08:15 Writchie: ok, it sounds like your implementaiton is based ont he same ideas as main (which was implementing harald's stub just slightly changed) Nov 22 17:08:46 main? Nov 22 17:08:56 *mine Nov 22 17:09:06 balrog-kun! Nov 22 17:09:22 i wan't to be able to support both ends at the same time for testing and for operation Nov 22 17:09:54 it is not finished and it's good that someone has a more complete implementation since it doesn't look like i will ha ve time to continue hacking it anytime soon Nov 22 17:10:01 hey thos Nov 22 17:10:12 balrog-kun: I can't get your gsmd to work :-( Nov 22 17:10:40 thos: what's with it? Nov 22 17:10:55 balrog-kun: it just hangs after loading plugins Nov 22 17:11:10 thos: :/ Nov 22 17:11:11 balrog-kun: normal gsmd works, but it can't work out "\nOK" Nov 22 17:11:19 balrog-kun: so it assumes modem is dead Nov 22 17:12:27 thos: is this \nOK malformed or something? Nov 22 17:12:31 thos: a recent OE build may be better now Nov 22 17:12:45 balrog-kun: are there still some patches in OE? Nov 22 17:13:32 thos: i don't know, i think it's using a more recent svn snapshot Nov 22 17:13:43 i have no way to check now Nov 22 17:13:45 balrog-kun: i'm running straight from svn Nov 22 17:14:24 * balrog-kun has to run off in about 3 minutes Nov 22 17:15:11 thos: what's in OE, probably works :) Nov 22 17:15:24 and the git should also work, it worked for me last time Nov 22 17:15:29 yeah me too Nov 22 17:15:32 dunno why it's not now Nov 22 17:15:40 hmm Nov 22 17:15:42 thos: are you running the git or the svn? Nov 22 17:15:50 balrog-kun: I tried both Nov 22 17:17:50 thos: did you update u-boot or something? (assuming it's on PC) Nov 22 17:18:05 balrog-kun: i'm using the netcat hack Nov 22 17:18:10 balrog-kun: and your pty app Nov 22 17:18:22 thos: ah ok, this is supposed to work Nov 22 17:21:02 thos: i'll be online in the evening, i hope it starts behaving Nov 22 17:21:35 balrog-kun: ok Nov 22 17:23:41 !ombug 1021 Nov 22 17:23:43 * * Bug 1021, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Nov 22 17:23:44 * * yoyo(AT)ghost.pl: xserver-kdrive Nov 22 17:23:45 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1021 Nov 22 17:23:45 zecke|flu: get well soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nov 22 17:24:32 =/ Nov 22 17:44:45 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 17:44:47 WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 17:44:49 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 17:46:45 right Nov 22 17:47:25 times like this you wish there were ops around :) Nov 22 17:47:27 * Stephmw hides Nov 22 17:47:52 it was kinda random Nov 22 17:47:54 well, he left on his own ;) Nov 22 17:48:54 ban his w'ole subnet, that'll learn 'im Nov 22 17:48:59 * Stephmw gets the shotgun Nov 22 17:49:19 * PersianE|away gets an ak-47 Nov 22 17:49:40 PersianE|away: you want spread, not rapid-fire Nov 22 17:50:51 possibly, but it will still get the job done =P Nov 22 17:55:50 In wireless networks .. can I get to see all the packets travelling through a certain access point using wireshark ? Nov 22 17:56:14 I mean the only the access point I'm associated with or all the others as well ? Nov 22 17:58:15 hi all Nov 22 17:58:50 hello Nov 22 17:59:20 CVirus: you can do that with tcpdump Nov 22 17:59:56 bedboi: get the traffic passing through all the access points ? Nov 22 17:59:56 you can sniff all unencrypted frames putting your wifi card in monitor mode Nov 22 18:00:17 normally: iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor Nov 22 18:00:23 I see Nov 22 18:00:24 tcpdump -i wlan0 -n -X Nov 22 18:00:33 you will see beacons flying too Nov 22 18:00:41 beacons ? Nov 22 18:00:51 they are magic packets :) Nov 22 18:00:59 what do they contain ? Nov 22 18:01:07 frames from the AP that advertise the presence of a wireless net Nov 22 18:01:08 it's the AP that screams "HEY I'M HERE" Nov 22 18:01:15 ah Nov 22 18:02:56 HeXane cvirus # iwconfig eth1 mode monitor Nov 22 18:02:57 Error for wireless request "Set Mode" (8B06) : Nov 22 18:02:57 SET failed on device eth1 ; Invalid argument. Nov 22 18:03:21 do I have to take dhcp lease first ? Nov 22 18:04:09 bedboi: apart from this ... will I be able to see all the traffic of all the access points in the network ? Nov 22 18:04:13 yo Nov 22 18:04:17 bedboi: or only the one I'm associated with ? Nov 22 18:05:14 brb Nov 22 18:07:14 bedboi: so ? Nov 22 18:08:46 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 18:08:50 WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 18:08:58 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 22 18:09:11 Hm.. Is this some kind of epidemic? Nov 22 18:09:37 irc bot spammer epidemics are not too untypical unfortunately Nov 22 18:11:04 the first one was from china and the second from poland confirming to whois of the ip Nov 22 18:11:58 maybe al kidda is waking up the sleepers ;) Nov 22 18:12:12 al kidda ? Nov 22 18:12:18 * CVirus bombs himself up Nov 22 18:12:49 I'm Egyptian by the way :-D Nov 22 18:13:03 hehe Nov 22 18:13:21 living in Egypt Nov 22 18:13:23 fear me then :-p Nov 22 18:14:02 * CM assumes al kidda was a reference to script kiddies and Al Qaida Nov 22 18:14:18 np: Einstürzende Neubauten - Sabrina Nov 22 18:14:20 sorry Nov 22 18:14:40 Not a song to be embarrassed over ;) Nov 22 18:14:43 ;) Nov 22 18:14:45 =) Nov 22 18:14:54 wanted /n and did /np Nov 22 18:15:03 Worse if it had been Sabrina - Boys boys boys or something like that.. :P Nov 22 18:15:11 neubauten are coming to town in april :) Nov 22 18:20:12 Would anyone here find any use for an Nvidia 6600GT ? Nov 22 18:25:09 rbs-tito: what do you mean? Nov 22 18:27:33 edistar: I've got a spare one and don't know what to do with it Nov 22 18:27:50 rbs-tito: where do you live? Nov 22 18:28:07 edistar: The United Kingdom Nov 22 18:28:15 I live in NL :( Nov 22 18:35:39 WHATS SO SAD ABOUT THAT! Nov 22 18:35:40 :) Nov 22 18:36:12 gi-el: that he can't send me the card easily ;) Nov 22 18:36:19 gi-el: I quite like nl otherwise Nov 22 18:39:37 edistar: okay :) Nov 22 18:39:55 gi-el: where do you come from in nl? Nov 22 18:41:07 03chris * r3479 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Nov 22 18:41:07 * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: Nov 22 18:41:07 * src/phone-kit/dialer-main.c: (main): Nov 22 18:41:07 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-dbus.xml: Nov 22 18:41:07 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms-dbus.xml: Nov 22 18:41:11 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: Nov 22 18:41:13 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.h: Nov 22 18:41:20 edistar: i always find that a hard question, i live in eindhoven now, but i don't consider myself "coming from" eindhoven Nov 22 18:41:37 edistar: i've lived in amsterdam for 8 years, that's a much better city, i'm still there quite often Nov 22 18:41:48 gi-el: ok, I live in Nijmegen, my sister is now in amsterdam Nov 22 18:41:52 edistar: originally i'm from around alkmaar Nov 22 18:42:31 03chris * r3480 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c src/sms-main.c): Nov 22 18:42:31 * src/sms-compose.c: (send_clicked_cb): Nov 22 18:42:31 * src/sms-main.c: (main): Nov 22 18:42:31 Adjust due to phone-kit changes Nov 22 18:42:46 roh: md5sum http://people.openmoko.org/roh/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn2943-r1.bin and http://people.openmoko.org/roh/md5sums disagree here Nov 22 18:43:40 aloril: Hey there, we've missed your faq? trigger ;) Nov 22 18:53:23 03chris * r3481 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/dialer/moko-history.c): Nov 22 18:53:23 * configure.ac: Nov 22 18:53:23 Replace libmokogsmd2 with libgsmd Nov 22 18:53:23 * src/dialer/moko-history.c: Nov 22 18:53:24 Remove unnecessary include Nov 22 18:56:06 aloril oh.. that could be.. Nov 22 18:56:46 aloril i did not update that file quite some time Nov 22 18:57:25 name is in it, sum just is wrong Nov 22 19:08:22 hi, I couldn't find a note about the official neo1973 release ... when will the first consumers be able to buy the phone with a solid firmware Nov 22 19:09:26 Flyser: read the topic Nov 22 19:10:02 Flyser: The device itself should be available relatively soon, however the software still needs a fair bit of work Nov 22 19:10:25 abraxa_: I hope it is _soon_ not april or so.. Nov 22 19:10:28 My personal guess is Q2/Q3 '08 if it matters any :) Nov 22 19:10:48 That doesn't sound silly abraxa_. Nov 22 19:11:16 SpeedEvil: Glad you agree :) Nov 22 19:11:21 :( Nov 22 19:11:41 edistar: I was talking about the software Nov 22 19:11:46 abraxa_: ah, ok Nov 22 19:11:54 I'd love to disagree, but don't think I can in the right direction. Nov 22 19:11:59 abraxa_: luckily, I don't mind about the software, just want to have some hardware :P Nov 22 19:12:20 well - it depends what you mean by firmware. Nov 22 19:12:29 SpeedEvil: You enjoy disagreeing? Nov 22 19:12:35 if you mean the core drivers and u-boot. Nov 22 19:12:58 abraxa_: I mean that it'd be nice if I thought you were wrong and the software was ready next month. Nov 22 19:13:14 yap thought this too Nov 22 19:13:21 SpeedEvil: Oh, in that sense - yeah, I agree that I wish you could disagree ;) Nov 22 19:36:00 evenin' Nov 22 19:36:53 hi Nov 22 19:44:34 So the software will be quite unready when GTA02 comes out (December/January?)? Do you think it will be too unready to be usable as an everyday phone? Nov 22 19:44:47 probably Nov 22 19:45:20 :( I'm currently using Nokia 3310, and I'm hoping to be able to switch to GTA02 as soon as it is released. Nov 22 19:45:27 unless "everyday phone" == "C programming everyday phone" for you... :) Nov 22 19:46:08 but my guess is that it should stabilize pretty soon afterwards (i am not affiliated to OpenMoko, so I can be optimistic and say it) Nov 22 19:46:20 haakeyar: it may be possible to phone with it.. Nov 22 19:46:47 haakeyar: sms is just being worked on, just started so I think that won't be stable soon Nov 22 19:47:46 Hm... But qtopia will be stable enough when GTA02 is out to be used in the meantime? Nov 22 19:47:53 * mjr uses it as an everyday phone now. Though not pleasantly :] Nov 22 19:48:23 haakeyar: this is #openmoko.. but I think OM and gtopia will work as simple "phones" in january.. Nov 22 19:48:48 haakeyar: i second edistar Nov 22 19:49:12 Me too - however, the 3310 will remain the better phone for some time Nov 22 19:49:26 a couple of weeks ago gta01+qtopia worked jsut fine, at least for calls and bt sends and stuff like that Nov 22 19:49:28 longer battery time.. eg ;) Nov 22 19:49:35 didn't test if the smses did work though Nov 22 19:49:35 edistar: just a tad :) Nov 22 19:50:00 it's Symbian based? Nov 22 19:50:09 3310? Nov 22 19:50:12 yes Nov 22 19:51:05 Hehe, no. My old phone died, so I got the 3310 from my grandfather (he has bought a new one). :P It's very old. Nov 22 19:51:21 heh, its the really old, standard nokia phone ;) Nov 22 19:51:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_3310 Nov 22 19:51:55 would like to see symbian on there :P Nov 22 19:52:34 I wish the TI chipset was as low power as the nokia one. Nov 22 19:52:50 edistar: I would rather not, it has performance problems even when writing SMS with T9 enabled :) Nov 22 19:52:56 Hello all Nov 22 19:52:56 edistar, yeah, or a port of openmoko :P Nov 22 19:53:33 haakeyar: yeah, will you port? Nov 22 19:53:34 :P Nov 22 19:54:20 CM: are you around here? Nov 22 19:54:46 ok, I see :-D Nov 22 19:58:45 anyone knows gtk-doc? (the new documentation system used in OM2007.2 apparently)? Nov 22 19:58:58 edistar: Yeah, just have to teach myself some C first. The most low-level stuff I've done is probably some C# (when I was back on windows) :P. Nov 22 19:59:03 ok Nov 22 19:59:07 haakeyar: good luck Nov 22 19:59:18 assembler is maybe more effective on that nokia ;) Nov 22 19:59:38 homyx: Only sometimes ;) Nov 22 20:00:03 CM: hey, thanks - sometimes :) Nov 22 20:00:51 CM: Do you have a couple of minutes? I habe a problem with mtdblock1... Nov 22 20:01:02 Just a sec, gf on the phone.. Nov 22 20:01:17 CM: :) Nov 22 20:01:39 edistar: Yeah, just a little more low-level than C. I could do that... Nov 22 20:01:58 :P Nov 22 20:02:07 okey ;) Nov 22 20:02:44 homyx: So, what was the problem? Nov 22 20:03:24 CM: I cant connect with cu to /dev/ttyACM0 --- dfu works Nov 22 20:03:32 Ok, same as me then Nov 22 20:03:46 CM: yes I guess :) Nov 22 20:04:32 CM: The wiki "Bricked" says that "dont copy mtdblock1" from another to yours... Nov 22 20:04:58 And when you hold in aux when you boot you don't get a menu? Nov 22 20:05:02 CM: but didn't you tried this on Aug 13th? Nov 22 20:05:07 CM: Nov 22 20:05:10 yes Nov 22 20:05:40 Well I get a menu (sorry) and I can boot by Factory reset... Nov 22 20:06:12 CM: My problem is: how to edit mtdblock to get the splashscreen again? Nov 22 20:06:45 homyx: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 Nov 22 20:07:06 Harald shows it there Nov 22 20:07:13 But you need to be able to cu in Nov 22 20:07:32 CM: yes, would be nice... Nov 22 20:07:38 I haven't yet, since I don't know of any reliable uboot from after october 15th Nov 22 20:07:54 CM: also just to fix it :) Nov 22 20:10:37 homyx: Sorry, damn phone keeps ringing Nov 22 20:10:52 homyx: What menu do you get on aux boot? Nov 22 20:11:01 Do you have the usb serial option? Nov 22 20:11:27 CM: no problem thanks; I get a shortend one, only two lines "boot" and "factory reset" Nov 22 20:11:34 Ah, ok Nov 22 20:11:36 Same as me then Nov 22 20:11:39 I get that one too Nov 22 20:11:43 CM: no serial option :| Nov 22 20:11:59 CM: Have you been able to fix it? Nov 22 20:12:03 Nope Nov 22 20:12:14 We need a good uboot from after october 15th Nov 22 20:12:24 CM: ah ok. Nov 22 20:12:58 Since harald added usb serial as default at that time Nov 22 20:13:41 CM: Is that all? I thought I had a newer one?! I'll try :) Nov 22 20:13:51 You have a debug board? Nov 22 20:14:54 CM: yes ynezz sent it to me :) Nov 22 20:15:02 Aha, then please try Nov 22 20:15:20 And if you find a working uboot let me know Nov 22 20:15:40 CM: I checked, I haven't had such a new u-boot. Nov 22 20:15:55 CM: I will try to find one and report :) Nov 22 20:16:15 Cool Nov 22 20:16:26 I'm just worried about bricking mine completely Nov 22 20:16:36 Since I don't have any debug board near by Nov 22 20:16:55 CM: I know, I bricked mine totally wo debug board ... Nov 22 20:17:05 CM: was a bad time :) Nov 22 20:18:45 homyx: how did you resolve it later? Nov 22 20:19:11 balrog-kun: still working on it :) Nov 22 20:19:46 homyx: is there a hope for fixing it without the debug board? Nov 22 20:20:30 balrog-kun: not sure. I am a real newbie on that... Nov 22 20:21:17 okies Nov 22 20:21:51 flashing started ... Nov 22 20:23:40 :| I flashed a uboot from Nov 10 but still get the "2line" console... Nov 22 20:25:01 homyx: that's ok Nov 22 20:25:13 Try cu Nov 22 20:25:17 but cu doesn't work... Nov 22 20:25:57 Still not? Hmm.. :/ Nov 22 20:26:35 Comment 7 in that bug says it should be on by default Nov 22 20:26:40 homyx: what was the svn revision for your uboot? (must be >= 3164 for the usbtty default) Nov 22 20:26:58 mmontour: Ah, good catch. The src_revs... Nov 22 20:26:58 nope :/ and still don't boot wo "factory reset" Nov 22 20:27:17 * CM and homyx have a broken uboot_env Nov 22 20:28:03 mmontour: good point -- svn2943 Nov 22 20:28:23 I have a known-good u-boot from 20070917 if you want it Nov 22 20:28:47 mmontour: its homebrewn --- where can I get one > 3164 ? Nov 22 20:29:00 CoreDump: :) Nov 22 20:30:20 CoreDump: A dev uboot later than october 15th (rev 3164) is needed Nov 22 20:30:39 for what exactly? Nov 22 20:31:18 To get usb serial by default Nov 22 20:31:24 Even with a broken uboot_env Nov 22 20:31:41 see comment 7 on bug 765 Nov 22 20:31:42 CoreDump: an uboot for GTA01v4 or did I miss s.th. Nov 22 20:32:07 homyx: you might have to build it yourself by hand. Mine is only at svn3147. Nov 22 20:32:42 More precisely, it's "u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn3147-r1.bin" Nov 22 20:32:43 well, if you have the debug board you could JTAG a new u-boot env Nov 22 20:32:50 or edit it manually? Nov 22 20:33:15 where can I get "u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn3147-r1.bin" Nov 22 20:33:23 my build env is broken... Nov 22 20:34:02 homyx: I could upload it for you, but it's still too old to have the usb-serial default that you want. Nov 22 20:34:07 CoreDump: how to edit it manually? sorry I'm new to that. Is there a wiki? Nov 22 20:35:01 u-boot is well documented on its project homepage Nov 22 20:35:18 if you can access the u-boot console, the env is fixable Nov 22 20:36:05 CoreDump: yes, but no ttyACM0 :( Nov 22 20:36:32 what's wrong w/ the u-boot from buildhost? Nov 22 20:36:42 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6+svn20070821-r0.bin Nov 22 20:37:42 CoreDump: I'll try this ^^^ :) Nov 22 20:38:34 umm wait, it's even older than my uboot... Nov 22 20:39:19 CoreDump: Is it new enough? 20070821 Nov 22 20:39:35 No Nov 22 20:39:56 homyx: the name tells you, its from 21st august.. Nov 22 20:40:41 edistar: thats what I meant ;) I thought I should use > october 15th (rev 3164) Nov 22 20:40:58 ok, as this is obviously a common problem, why on earth isn't there a recent pre-compiled u-boot available? Nov 22 20:41:14 homyx: ok ;) Nov 22 20:41:17 if you can flash a new u-boot you can flash a new uboot-env Nov 22 20:41:23 CoreDump: i was wondering the same thing Nov 22 20:41:32 CoreDump: scaredycat has some Nov 22 20:41:47 CoreDump: they were on buildhost new images every couple of days and suddenly were removed Nov 22 20:41:57 sorry I think I really missed s.th Nov 22 20:42:03 is no one here with a working build env? Nov 22 20:42:04 They have been broken a long time Nov 22 20:42:11 CoreDump: I think part of the problem is that there are other un-fixed bugs in newer uboots Nov 22 20:42:14 And no one is maintaining it properly it seems Nov 22 20:42:24 buildhost.automated.it doesn't have a working u-boot?? Nov 22 20:42:33 CM: but the "default env" patch should be back-portable to a known-good version Nov 22 20:42:46 whats the difference between u-boot ? uboot-env sorry :S Nov 22 20:42:48 True Nov 22 20:43:12 homyx: uboot_env includes the uboot menu, and a bad block table Nov 22 20:43:12 homyx: u-boot env is where u-boot's settings are stored Nov 22 20:43:29 balrog-kun: the bb table is the imprtant thing.. Nov 22 20:43:30 homyx: u-boot is runtime-configured via environment variables, the "u-boot env" Nov 22 20:43:40 balrog-kun: so partition 0 in mtd? Nov 22 20:43:46 And that's why you can't flash someone elses uboot_env Nov 22 20:43:55 Because each bb is unique Nov 22 20:44:02 CM: i though bb tables is in the two last sectors before the flash end? Nov 22 20:44:16 CM: ok I get this it's also on the "Bricked" page?! Nov 22 20:44:20 bb table is not in the uboot-env - the partition map is Nov 22 20:44:39 tuukkah: right Nov 22 20:44:49 balrog-kun: I thought so too, but someone told me it was in the uboot:env Nov 22 20:44:53 And could be rebuilt Nov 22 20:45:13 For this problem the partition map doesn't matter - all homyx needs is an environment with the usbtty settings. So maybe flashing someone else's env would work. Nov 22 20:45:16 well the partition map can be rebuilt with a uboot command Nov 22 20:45:23 CM: hmm ok, but i'm not convinced :) Nov 22 20:45:41 mmontour, exactly Nov 22 20:45:55 *: any suggestions? Nov 22 20:46:30 uboot-env == mtd1: 00004000 00004000 "u-boot_env" ??? Nov 22 20:46:57 mmontour:^^^^ Nov 22 20:47:36 Yes, that's the environment-variable partition. Nov 22 20:47:55 wait... Nov 22 20:48:00 mmontour: thats what I tried/thought to false Nov 22 20:48:10 mmontour: of course :) Nov 22 20:48:29 typo ^^^ flash ^^^^ Nov 22 20:49:03 homyx, and what did you flash there? Nov 22 20:49:12 uboot?! Nov 22 20:49:27 you shouldn't flash uboot there Nov 22 20:50:14 wtf - Nov 22 20:50:16 the good news is that it's not fatal if you do :) Nov 22 20:50:22 so it doesn't qualify as bricked Nov 22 20:50:25 (usually) Nov 22 20:50:33 :P Nov 22 20:50:40 balrog-kun: well it boots :) Nov 22 20:50:40 * ScaredyCat points at the u-boot @ buildhost.automated.it Nov 22 20:51:26 OK, I've uploaded my env partition to http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/mm_env Nov 22 20:51:43 ScaredyCat: hi. do you mean ...good for sd ... Nov 22 20:51:52 yes... Nov 22 20:52:35 the one that says 'good for sd boot' Nov 22 20:52:42 ScaredyCat: I already flashed it... And I can do it again. But I don't get /dev/ttyACM0 working Nov 22 20:52:49 is actually, good for booting from sd Nov 22 20:53:15 http://buildhost.automated.it/u-boot-good-for-sd-boot-r13_0_2632_0.bin Nov 22 20:53:16 Anyone here got experience with qemu? Nov 22 20:53:41 mmm... it works for me homyx... Nov 22 20:54:00 flexd: and more concretely? Nov 22 20:54:02 do you need to modprobe the cdc stuff manually ? Nov 22 20:54:24 homyx, you need a proper u-boot in the u-boot partition and a proper u-boot_env in the the u-boot_env partition. are you sure you have those now? Nov 22 20:55:18 So, I flashed u-boot-good-for .... in mtd1 Nov 22 20:55:35 actually u-boot_env can probably be copied from a qemu flash image Nov 22 20:55:42 not sure about these u-boot_env in the the u-boot_env Nov 22 20:55:59 balrog-kun: /home/kristoffer/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/audio/audio.c:1917: fatal error: opening dependency file audio/audio.d: No such file or directory Nov 22 20:56:02 compilation terminated. Nov 22 20:56:05 kaboom. Nov 22 20:56:07 :( Nov 22 20:56:20 i've tried all sort of make update && make setup stuff Nov 22 20:56:26 that i can think of from the wiki Nov 22 20:56:40 i have no idea what audio.d is, or rather, why it's not there Nov 22 20:57:05 flexd: i aslo have no idea why it's not there but an empty audio/audio.d will be enough Nov 22 20:57:14 i.e. "touch audio/audio.d" Nov 22 20:58:02 ScaredyCat: what should I modprobe? cdc_ether and cdc_acm is up Nov 22 20:58:31 balrog-kun: doesnt seem to work :/ Nov 22 20:58:36 ScaredyCat: I can also use ssh to get into ... Nov 22 20:58:44 flexd: same error? Nov 22 20:59:13 yes Nov 22 20:59:26 Not sure i made audio/audio.d in the right folder though Nov 22 20:59:44 homyx, sd boot won't work if you hosed the u-boot_env Nov 22 20:59:47 flexd: it should sit in the same directory where audio.c is Nov 22 21:00:12 well im in the folder Nov 22 21:00:12 flexd: the *.d stuff was introduced recently upstream and there haven't been any problems reported with it yet Nov 22 21:00:22 i made the file audio.d *and* the folder audio with audio.d inside it Nov 22 21:00:28 still same error Nov 22 21:00:44 tuukkah: how can Ifix u-boot_env ? Nov 22 21:01:07 homyx, mmontour gave you a link to his u-boot_env. flash that to the next partition Nov 22 21:01:08 hrrm Nov 22 21:01:35 flexd: are you using MokoMakefile? Nov 22 21:01:45 balrog-kun: uhm... i think so Nov 22 21:01:56 all im typing is make qemu Nov 22 21:02:10 Flashing a new u-boot environment will lose the bad-block info for the flash, IIRC. Nov 22 21:02:11 (i followed the qemu guide on the wiki) Nov 22 21:02:28 maybe it's some paths trickery from MokoMakefile Nov 22 21:02:36 tuukkah: really sorry again. to -a 0 -R -D ??? Nov 22 21:02:38 mwester-laptop, but it was possible to recreate in uboot, right? Nov 22 21:02:39 flexd: yes, make qemu is a MokoMakefile target Nov 22 21:02:51 maybe i should edit the makefile? Nov 22 21:02:57 and search for audio.d, and see Nov 22 21:03:04 homyx, i'm not sure about the numbering now... Nov 22 21:03:42 tuukkah: I only have numbers available... does that help? mtd0: 00040000 00004000 "u-boot" Nov 22 21:03:52 homyx: i think -a 2 ? Nov 22 21:03:56 first is u-boot, second is u-boot_env, but do we count from 0 or 1 Nov 22 21:04:15 tuukkah: 0 is RAM i believe Nov 22 21:04:23 homyx: use the symbolic names in dfu-util, e.g. "dfu-util -R -a uboot -D ./uboot-latest.bin" Nov 22 21:04:44 flexd: that's a rather difficult path Nov 22 21:04:48 balrog-kun, right Nov 22 21:04:49 tuukkah: I thought 1 uboot 3 kernel 5 rootfs ( 4 splash = Nov 22 21:05:09 mmontour: the symbolic doesn't work:| Nov 22 21:05:12 homyx, but your printout says mtd0... Nov 22 21:05:26 homyx, in that scheme, u-boot_env is 2 Nov 22 21:05:27 flexd: is audio enabled? Nov 22 21:05:35 balrog-kun: what do you mean? Nov 22 21:05:41 I haven't changed configuration files or anything Nov 22 21:05:58 homyx: are you using an up-to-date dfu-util? The one built by MokoMakefile should work fine with the symbolic "-a" names Nov 22 21:06:02 I just followed the tutorial Nov 22 21:06:27 tuukkah: I used the table from : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked#Useful_information Nov 22 21:06:27 flexd: is there a line "CONFIG_ALSA=yes" in config-host.mak Nov 22 21:06:59 flexd: well, the tutorial redirects people to MokoMakefile tutorial, i'm not responsible for MokoMakefile (happily) Nov 22 21:07:13 homyx, right. so mtd devices use different numbering than dfu Nov 22 21:07:47 tuukkah: ok I Nov 22 21:08:02 will use uboot_env and flash it to 2 Nov 22 21:08:27 now i don't remember the command to recreate partitions Nov 22 21:08:43 dynpart? Nov 22 21:09:14 dynpart to create the environment variable, dynenv to save the environment offset Nov 22 21:09:41 and saveenv to save the whole shebang Nov 22 21:10:13 but i think it doesn't erase the new u-boot_env partition, you have to erase it separately Nov 22 21:11:02 cool, dynpart should be it Nov 22 21:12:34 balrog-kun: where is config-host.bak hiding? Nov 22 21:12:35 dynenv perhaps isn't needed as there has been a working env before Nov 22 21:12:43 .mak* Nov 22 21:13:17 flexd: in qemu-neo1973/ Nov 22 21:15:16 do i have to make the file or does it exist already? Nov 22 21:16:01 YEAH *dancing* cu works again !!! Nov 22 21:16:15 flexd: it should already exist if "make qemu" has ran at least once Nov 22 21:16:32 I did dfu-util -a 2 -R -D /home/homyx/Desktop/mm_env Nov 22 21:16:38 it's generated by ./configure Nov 22 21:16:53 i found it in /home/kristoffer/moko/build/qemu Nov 22 21:17:26 flexd: ah ok, i forgot MokoMakefile builds qemu out-of-tree Nov 22 21:17:28 it has CONFIG_OSS="yes" Nov 22 21:17:30 not ALSA Nov 22 21:17:35 Should i just remove it? Nov 22 21:17:40 I dont need sound in a emu anyway Nov 22 21:18:11 flexd: you can try and see if it works, and if it doesn't, add CONFIG_ALSA="yes" (because that's what i use and it works for me) Nov 22 21:18:15 same error with it removed too :s Nov 22 21:18:17 hmm k Nov 22 21:18:25 homyx, now you could check what dynpart does Nov 22 21:18:36 i don't have the CONFIG_OSS="yes" line Nov 22 21:19:02 balrog-kun: same error with ALSA, file is still missing :/ Nov 22 21:19:05 CM: balrog-kun: mmontour: CoreDump: many many thanks!!! Nov 22 21:19:16 I owe you drinks :) Nov 22 21:19:38 ScaredyCat: drink++ :) Nov 22 21:19:44 flexd: have you had other qemu builds on that computer? Nov 22 21:19:58 maybe this config-host.mak comes from a differnet build Nov 22 21:19:59 No Nov 22 21:19:59 glad it worked out for yu Nov 22 21:20:02 *you Nov 22 21:20:11 I *really* dont feel like doing another 12h build Nov 22 21:20:29 flexd: how about "touch /home/kristoffer/moko/build/qemu/audio/audio.d" Nov 22 21:20:31 tuukkah: of course also I drink for you! Nov 22 21:20:58 have to make the audio folder first then :/ Nov 22 21:21:04 tuukkah: of course! how can I help? Nov 22 21:21:04 so i doubt it's gonna work Nov 22 21:21:19 flexd: yeah, actually perhaps won't work Nov 22 21:21:21 homyx: don't forget to clean up the environment for your neo before flashing anything else (dynpart, saveenv, etc.) Nov 22 21:21:56 flexd: i'm afraid i can't help with MokoMakefile Nov 22 21:22:27 homyx, run dynpart on uboot console and tell us what it prints Nov 22 21:22:36 balrog-kun: i'm doomed >_> Nov 22 21:22:46 What other ways are there to do it? Without MokoMakeFile? Nov 22 21:22:49 flexd: there are instruction at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU which work (and if they don't then i'm responsible to fix them, so i would know) Nov 22 21:22:53 mmontour: so I do "nand erase kernel" and "nand erase rootfs" in front of?! Nov 22 21:23:49 flexd: the "Using MokoMakefile" is the section i'm can't speak for Nov 22 21:23:54 I don't think that's necessary. Can you show the output of "nand bad", "dynpart", and "dynenv get"? Nov 22 21:24:39 balrog-kun: how long does the manual thing take? Nov 22 21:25:06 flexd: 15 mins including the reading Nov 22 21:26:00 well, the roootfs downloading later may take a while, it's a 40 MB download but you probably already have the image Nov 22 21:26:02 output : http://pastebin.com/m4dbe8e75 Nov 22 21:26:15 but please be careful Nov 22 21:26:40 a 40mb download takes me like a minute Nov 22 21:26:41 so Nov 22 21:26:42 :D Nov 22 21:26:48 maybe some env vars are not set properly Nov 22 21:27:04 takes 1h for me -_- Nov 22 21:27:04 shouldn 't change anything here ?! Nov 22 21:27:34 homyx, now do the new mtdparts settings match the ones contained in the env you flashed? Nov 22 21:27:38 balrog-kun: super slow net? Nov 22 21:28:00 Looks OK - same as on my Neo. Nov 22 21:28:26 flexd: depends on what you compare to Nov 22 21:28:32 so nothing scary in the end :-) Nov 22 21:28:40 You should be OK to set up your environment the way you want (menu entries, etc) then do a saveenv Nov 22 21:28:43 balrog-kun: normal internet Nov 22 21:28:48 I'm on 20mbit Nov 22 21:29:14 homyx, i suppose now you can try to boot from sd if that's what you wanted to do in the first place :-) Nov 22 21:29:21 flexd: right Nov 22 21:29:31 i'm on 128kbit and i'm above normal for local standards Nov 22 21:29:52 yikes Nov 22 21:29:56 Ouch, i feel for you man :/ Nov 22 21:29:59 i can't stand <5Mbit Nov 22 21:30:38 me either and i'm on a cdma radiolink atm ;_; Nov 22 21:30:41 tuukkah: so the line in mm_env and the output of dynpart ist the same :) (double checked :) ) Nov 22 21:31:16 homyx, yeah so nothing changed and everything should be consistent Nov 22 21:31:18 there's a hypotesis that the faster link you have the more time you waste downloading stuff :) Nov 22 21:31:35 tuukkah: nope, unless you want me to do :) I'm happy with this (no boot from sd actually) Nov 22 21:32:00 tuukkah: yeah yeah yeah :) Nov 22 21:32:44 homyx, ok, i just noticed some talk about booting from sd Nov 22 21:32:49 tuukkah: short hist: I did a nand erase ... Now, its working again and i'm more than happy with it :) Nov 22 21:33:21 tuukkah: yeah, you're right. There were some lines :) Nov 22 21:33:31 homyx, so the nand erase wasn't the most useful thing to do ?-) Nov 22 21:33:32 balrog-kun: booting now :) Nov 22 21:34:12 tuukkah: well?! no! But I really learned a lot :) Nov 22 21:34:24 cool :-) Nov 22 21:35:06 i was thinking of making a wiki page about partitions because the info seems to be scattered Nov 22 21:35:35 tuukkah: I also try to sum all this stuff up tomorrow. Nov 22 21:35:50 tuukkah: this page would be really nice :) Nov 22 21:36:27 Another wiki page that would be useful is a matrix of uboot versions vs. their bugs (introduced in X, fixed in Y) Nov 22 21:36:51 :) Nov 22 21:37:05 mmontour, indeed Nov 22 21:39:01 nice, I figured out another problem :| Nov 22 21:39:14 It doesn't start out-of-the-box Nov 22 21:39:24 ? Nov 22 21:39:27 boot? Nov 22 21:39:48 I have to go to uboot and hit the boot button Nov 22 21:40:30 iirc there's a race condition... Nov 22 21:40:47 ScaredyCat: :) Nov 22 21:41:21 I hope I can read/check more to the problem tomorrow Nov 22 21:41:33 but it's a known issue with newer u-boots... Nov 22 21:42:06 it only ever seems to be an issue for people like us booting from sd Nov 22 21:42:32 Is there any way to speed up qemu performance? Nov 22 21:42:35 It uses *ages* booting Nov 22 21:42:58 my uboot version is the good-for-sd ... from yours ScaredyCat Nov 22 21:43:11 ScaredyCat: is it known? Nov 22 21:43:15 yes... Nov 22 21:43:26 with all newer uboots Nov 22 21:43:34 flexd: if you were running qemu on an ARM host.. Nov 22 21:43:51 balrog-kun: I dont have any of those :/ Nov 22 21:43:51 ScaredyCat: ah. thats nice! thanks for the hint :) Nov 22 21:43:53 on x86 you can only accelerate x86 emulation Nov 22 21:44:15 I have a Ipaq 3360 Nov 22 21:44:19 It's ooold Nov 22 21:44:22 but maybe it can run it? Nov 22 21:45:02 flexd: it will need like 180 MB of RAM and if it's slower than some 500 MHz it will be slower than on your PC :) Nov 22 21:45:04 ScaredyCat: so I can lean back until tomorrow, where I also want to start from SD :) many many thanks Nov 22 21:45:18 balrog-kun: it's got like 32mb ram :p Nov 22 21:45:46 yeah, Neo is pretty much the most memory you get on ARMs :) Nov 22 21:46:07 many thanks to all !! Nov 22 21:46:08 * mmontour has a Corel Netwinder with 64M RAM Nov 22 21:46:09 have fun... must dash lappy battery dying :/ Nov 22 21:46:55 and good night! At least it's late here :) Nov 22 22:14:50 Uhm Nov 22 22:14:53 How do i close programs? Nov 22 22:14:56 Like the dialer :/ Nov 22 22:15:24 flexd, short press on power button Nov 22 22:15:30 I'm on qemu Nov 22 22:15:59 space or enter? Nov 22 22:18:13 bey Nov 22 23:02:34 here's a start: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader_versions Nov 22 23:55:36 "Capability to set-up Emergency Calls, even if the device does not hold a SIM card" Nov 22 23:55:40 is someone working on this? Nov 22 23:55:49 i would start working on it otherwise Nov 22 23:56:07 are you sure it doesn't work already? Nov 22 23:56:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd Nov 22 23:56:29 dont no Nov 22 23:56:54 at least at some point dialer was made to permit calls even when we're not registered to network Nov 22 23:56:55 if it does work, could someone update the "currently missing" section? Nov 22 23:57:01 so i can see an what i can work? Nov 22 23:57:22 how would we test whether it works? Nov 22 23:57:53 tuukkah: dont know, drive to the nearest police station and ask someone if we can make a test call? Nov 22 23:58:05 o_O Nov 22 23:58:18 sounds impractical :-/ Nov 22 23:58:44 perhaps this is something fic knows and needs to do... :-( Nov 22 23:59:05 dont know Nov 22 23:59:16 i think it is a very important funcionality Nov 22 23:59:29 *functionality Nov 22 23:59:40 of course we could start by testing what happens if you try to call some other number without the sim? Nov 22 23:59:54 is there someone who knows for sure if it is implemented? Nov 22 23:59:54 mwester-laptop: ? Nov 23 00:02:38 tuukkah: this list really seems to be outdated Nov 23 00:02:40 mh Nov 23 00:03:03 would be great if one could update it Nov 23 00:03:29 i will have time to hack from friday to sunday :) Nov 23 00:05:02 there's so much that needs to be done, there's enough for everyone ;-) Nov 23 00:05:27 it is pretty hard to figure out what exactly has to be done :) Nov 23 00:05:48 update your phone, see what doesn't work, fix :-) Nov 23 00:05:51 i think FIC probably has ways to test things like emergency calls without making a real emergency call Nov 23 00:06:32 you could theoretically test with a simulator but this might be a too important feature for the risk :) Nov 23 00:06:34 tuukkah: the guis dont tell me what functionality is or is not implemented in gsmd... Nov 23 00:07:12 borg_, so you're specifically interested in gsmd? have you looked at the code? Nov 23 00:07:23 tuukkah: yes Nov 23 00:07:35 i am interested in the basic stuff Nov 23 00:07:56 i am somehow not skilled enough for the suspend to ram thingy :\ Nov 23 00:08:15 what about neod stuff? Nov 23 00:08:35 sounds good too :) Nov 23 00:09:06 for example, the menus don't rotate if the screen is rotated Nov 23 00:09:11 but there is no up to date "this things are needed" list either.. ;) Nov 23 00:09:34 ok Nov 23 00:09:36 :) Nov 23 00:09:41 also, when the screen goes black, touch events still go through to apps Nov 23 00:09:53 and there's no screen-lock Nov 23 00:10:11 01:09 < tuukkah> for example, the menus don't rotate if the screen is rotated Nov 23 00:10:15 thats not true for my build :P Nov 23 00:10:37 first is mostly cosmetic, second bad usability, third makes the battery last shorter for example Nov 23 00:10:46 borg_, cool, i haven't checked lately Nov 23 00:11:06 tuukkah: and i have a "lock now" button which locks the screen :P Nov 23 00:11:15 works pretty nice :) Nov 23 00:12:41 you might want to update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neod Nov 23 00:13:38 tuukkah: dont know, there is a link to "Power management menu" Nov 23 00:13:53 and there are all functions described Nov 23 00:14:55 if nothing changed since i wrote those pages, they're still buggy Nov 23 00:15:27 20:37, 10 September 2007 TuukkaH Nov 23 00:15:32 yes, you are the last one :) Nov 23 00:15:49 that is, the "Lock Phone" menu entry puts the phone in suspend-to-ram Nov 23 00:16:09 not same as screenlock Nov 23 00:16:13 i dont think there is another state needed Nov 23 00:16:43 i can't use suspend-to-ram since it stops music Nov 23 00:16:48 (i assume that wake on gsm will work some time) Nov 23 00:16:51 mmmh Nov 23 00:16:56 thats right Nov 23 00:17:12 but these different states of sleeping are so confusing for normal people Nov 23 00:17:29 like "suspend to ram", "suspend to disk", ... on laptops Nov 23 00:18:10 so perhaps it should be possible to change elsewhere whether "Lock Phone" does suspend-to-ram or screen lock Nov 23 00:18:43 for example, the music player would disable suspend-to-ram while it's playing Nov 23 00:19:35 sounds good to me Nov 23 00:19:40 ok what about this: suspend-to-ram mode is too easy to escape accidentally, since it only takes a single button press Nov 23 00:20:02 dont know, the buttons are pretty hard to press actually :P Nov 23 00:21:34 if i have the phone in my pocket i'm sure it'll accidentally wake up and call some Nov 23 00:21:37 -one Nov 23 00:22:19 what about a more real lock that takes a pin to open, for security? Nov 23 00:23:20 for a phone, for which you can find a tutorial on how to flash a new version of the os with google? ;) Nov 23 00:23:29 but ok, should be there of course Nov 23 00:23:47 mh Nov 23 00:23:53 openmoko-messanger2 is odd Nov 23 00:24:08 cant figure out how it sould be used Nov 23 00:24:15 later, we can add a password to u-boot i suppose Nov 23 00:25:02 ah, got it :) Nov 23 00:25:29 (then you'd need a debug board, can't work around that really) Nov 23 00:26:59 you need a simple look with password to prevent people from setting an awkawk ringtone while you not looking after your phone and things like that Nov 23 00:27:55 could be implemented like bluetooth pairing Nov 23 00:28:02 with having to enter a number on both sides Nov 23 00:28:36 to prevent something like that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hkZaa3GM-Y Nov 23 00:28:37 *g* Nov 23 00:28:42 nbd, what could? Nov 23 00:30:28 security on the usb port Nov 23 00:30:50 i mean from an interface PoV Nov 23 00:31:20 i was thinking cases where you lose physical control to the phone for a while Nov 23 00:33:21 You need a u-boot password/phrase to stop the semi-intelligent flashing it Nov 23 00:33:40 and you need a JTAG lock or something to stop the debug board working Nov 23 00:33:57 the first is trivial, the second isn't Nov 23 00:34:29 i don't know if jtag lock is that important. the flash can be extracted in any case Nov 23 00:34:59 If my phone is stolen I want it to be completely useless to the thief. Nov 23 00:35:10 I do not want them to be able to flash it - even with a debug board. Nov 23 00:35:25 trying to secure the phone against physical access is futile Nov 23 00:35:39 No, it's not. Nov 23 00:35:51 Increasing the cost of physical access has a point. Nov 23 00:36:11 For example - uboot password means that someone has to get a debug board Nov 23 00:36:21 SpeedEvil: dont know Nov 23 00:36:25 what is the point? Nov 23 00:36:36 JTAG password means that they have to open it up and probe points on the PCB to flash it. Nov 23 00:36:40 well, let's start with the trivial parts first :-) Nov 23 00:37:01 I want my neo to have utterly no resale value if it's stolen. I do not want anyone able to reactivate it. Nov 23 00:37:32 i like the "the phone sends gps points secretly when a wrong pin is used" approach more Nov 23 00:37:44 The folks on Mission Impossible had that figured out, SpeedEvil Nov 23 00:37:47 there is a chance that you get it back then Nov 23 00:38:01 and you think police are going to be interested in investigating that bor? Nov 23 00:38:21 At least here (uk) there is little hope. Nov 23 00:38:38 mwester-laptop: do you know what of the "currently missing" section is uptodate? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd Nov 23 00:39:14 SpeedEvil: dont know, you can investigate for yourself :) Nov 23 00:39:26 and be killed or something like that :P Nov 23 00:42:17 a simple page about partitions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Partitions Nov 23 00:45:03 borg_, I haven't checked that page out in a looong time - so I guess the answer is no, not at the moment. Nov 23 00:46:18 mwester-laptop: i will have time from friday to sunday to hack something for the neo :) Nov 23 00:46:39 but it is pretty hard to found out what actually is missing and on what actually someone is working right now Nov 23 00:46:47 s/found/find/ Nov 23 00:46:47 borg_ meant: but it is pretty hard to find out what actually is missing and on what actually someone is working right now Nov 23 00:47:19 borg_, so you didn't like the neod ideas? Nov 23 00:47:48 tuukkah: they are good :) Nov 23 00:48:00 but there is nevertheless a lack of such information ;) Nov 23 00:48:59 but now i have to get some sleep Nov 23 00:49:00 bbl Nov 23 01:37:15 Wc Nov 23 01:37:17 woops **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 23 02:59:57 2007