**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 02 02:59:56 2007 Dec 02 03:15:42 * CVirus is drinking his 15th cup of coffee Dec 02 04:11:52 I sort of got a genious idea Dec 02 04:11:57 dunno if it's mentioned by anyone Dec 02 04:11:57 but Dec 02 04:12:03 scheduled sms/mss/email sending Dec 02 04:12:08 mms* Dec 02 04:12:10 Like Dec 02 04:12:16 It's 5 am here Dec 02 04:12:26 but i wanna send someone a message, without waking them up Dec 02 04:12:38 So i set the phone to send the message i write in, at a specified time Dec 02 04:13:02 or something whatever, someone ping pong me if it's a good idea, im gonna goto sleep :| Dec 02 04:13:34 Flexd: Sounds like a good idea to me. Dec 02 04:13:38 (I should really learn to write longer sentances huh? 10 lines with just me typing, dang!) Dec 02 04:14:44 And i think it can be handled either by implementing it as Calender events or using cron or something (or adding a whole schedule system to the sms app) Dec 02 04:15:17 cron seems like a natural way. Dec 02 04:15:24 but as im sort of rambling now, i'm gonna goto bed before i say soemthing stupid, like 20 hours since i slept :| Dec 02 04:15:43 Have a good snooze. Dec 02 04:15:51 (good) Dec 02 04:15:58 back in like 24hours :P Dec 02 04:42:06 Does anyone know of a program which can run on the neo which will interpret the nmea stream, and produce a display of position, satellite coverage, etc? Dec 02 07:29:03 Can anyone comment on the 850MHz band and Neo1973 usage in the US? Is the Neo just not going to work in the US? Dec 02 07:56:45 GTA01 will not work for those people whose carrier only has 850MHz in the location where they want it to work. Dec 02 07:57:20 GTA02 may have two tri-band variants, one which does 850 and one which does 900. This has not been announced as an official plan yet. Dec 02 08:02:12 hmm - they'd quit anyway. Dec 02 08:04:47 rwhitby: wasn't there any rumour about gsm firmware update to solve that issue? Dec 02 08:09:56 emdete: nope, gsm firmware update is about sims, not frequencies Dec 02 08:10:30 frequencies require hardware changes (850MHz filters instead of 900MHz filters - the board is only laid out with a three-way filter switch, not a four-way) Dec 02 08:11:31 has any one compiled the gadgetfs.o in your system? i can not find gadgetfs.c in my kernel source . Dec 02 08:28:00 anyone where is the file "gadgets.c", google can not find it at all Dec 02 08:29:23 Does anyone know if a standard way for applications to access the GPS information has been established? If multiple apps what that info, they can't all parse the NMEA stream, right? Will there be a daemon or something that writes the position data somewhere? Dec 02 08:37:30 ms Dec 02 08:37:33 oops Dec 02 11:04:59 hi Dec 02 11:35:12 i have two packages one is cairo-directfb, the other is cairo.gtkfb image DEPENDS the former as staging. gtk needs the later. Dec 02 11:35:24 when i changed between the two images,i must rebuild one of them in order to get correct header files. Dec 02 11:35:36 is there any method to avoid this? Dec 02 12:54:42 readon: do you use directfb /and/ x11? Dec 02 13:01:42 emdete, yes, i want to try them both Dec 02 13:01:55 but not the same time Dec 02 13:04:40 okay... understand. perhaps use 2 build trees? Dec 02 13:05:16 directfb is really nice, btw... i like the api, it's very clean and stable (compared to other graphic apis) Dec 02 14:06:01 http://flexd.pastebin.com/f40058bf4 Dec 02 14:13:08 dual core rules. Dec 02 14:18:56 flexd, I heard this idea several times - seems reasonable to me but for me cron suffices for this task Dec 02 14:19:23 hmm Dec 02 14:19:31 Could just be built into the sms app imo Dec 02 14:22:07 aye Dec 02 14:23:27 smsapp code is where ? Dec 02 14:26:10 dunno Dec 02 14:26:42 openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2 Dec 02 14:26:51 mwester: ping Dec 02 14:32:13 * balrog-kun doesn't mind waking up others Dec 02 14:35:29 Me neither Dec 02 14:35:47 But certain girls try to strangle me if i wake them up, i need safety :P Dec 02 14:44:17 flexd, I see it the other way round: some girls strangle me if I don't send them an sms exactly 0:00 on their birthday ^^ Dec 02 14:45:06 josch: it would be nice to have generator of such sms :) Dec 02 14:45:21 No that is okay too, but she wasnt all that happy when i sent her a good morning message at 6 am when i went to work when she didnt goto school and woke up 13~ each day.. :P Dec 02 14:45:40 so when adding contact you'll just add her to birthday category and moko vill send sms automaticaly :) Dec 02 14:45:44 I almost died :( Dec 02 14:46:40 hmm 6am, she isn't the only person which would kill you for that Dec 02 14:47:37 * amarsh04 suspects that Mononoke is a Miyazaki fan Dec 02 14:47:57 * josch suspects mononoke to be female Dec 02 14:49:56 Mononoke: no shit, i was confuzzled when i woke up :p Dec 02 14:50:19 ho can even someone wake up so early? Dec 02 14:50:36 a loud obnoxious alarm on my cellphone Dec 02 14:50:57 that's very dangerous for the phone Dec 02 14:51:05 which is also why i a) hate my phone, and it's hardly working from the times i've chucked into the wall b) I cant ever ever use my neo as a alarm :P Dec 02 14:51:57 try it, you'll do great crashtesting Dec 02 14:56:08 hmm.. I used to wake up at 6 every morning when I was still in elementary school Dec 02 14:56:16 crashtesting is already done be me - no worries Dec 02 14:56:53 * josch wakes up be a cron alarm on all my seven desktops at the same time Dec 02 14:57:08 s/be/by/ Dec 02 14:57:21 I said it here some time in past Dec 02 14:57:38 * Mononoke uses cron > mplayer All_the_songs_I_hate/* Dec 02 14:58:46 Mononoke, I can remember ^^ Dec 02 15:02:32 * mwester wiffles and the ping-pong ball falls to the floor. +1 point for abraxa_ Dec 02 15:05:47 * mwester checks his neo's "AGPS Test", and notes "Fixes: 0 good 117057 fail 117057 total" Dec 02 15:05:49 :( Dec 02 15:06:04 mwester: where do you have your neo? in home? Dec 02 15:06:09 it wont work there Dec 02 15:06:29 some one tell me what do "Factory reset" Pozition in u-boot menu ?? Dec 02 15:06:32 (lacking favourable conditions) Dec 02 15:07:31 borg_: Apparently so. But it didn't aquire the signal in the 20 - 30 minute segments between buldings yesterday either. My Garmin, and two no-name taiwanese external GPS units sync up find here in my office. :( Dec 02 15:07:52 er, fine even Dec 02 15:08:57 well, it's above freezing, and the precipitation has stopped. I'll place it in a plastic bag, and put it on the table outside for an hour or two. Dec 02 15:11:43 linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10/temp/run.do_compile.5264: line 734: uboot-mkimage: command not found Dec 02 15:11:51 Who broke the kernel bb recipe? Dec 02 15:15:22 mwester, try this: ((cd build; . ../setup-env; bitbake uboot-openmoko); make openmoko-devel-image) Dec 02 15:18:56 Kinda worrisome that it's been broken since late last week -- I get the impression I'm the only person who builds from scratch anymore. The implications of which are interesting... Dec 02 15:25:11 mwester: er... I build the whole tree from scratch thursday-friday Dec 02 15:26:13 Hmmm. I started a build on friday am, and had the above failure. Dec 02 15:26:50 * cesarb looks at his work tree: neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10 Dec 02 15:28:28 the only reference to mkimage on my logs is on line 1621 Dec 02 15:28:34 "mkimage" command not found - U-Boot images will not be built Dec 02 15:31:03 mwester: I have a build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/bin/uboot-mkimage, perhaps it's because I always run "make tools" before "make image", while the default is the opposite? Dec 02 15:31:06 I have that same text. But then apparently it goes ahead and builds the uboot image anyway. Dec 02 15:31:20 Ah, that could do it. Dec 02 15:31:55 (I do that because "make tools" is much faster and builds dfu-util, which can be quite useful) Dec 02 15:32:55 I copied dfu-util to /usr/local/bin where it's even more useful. :) Dec 02 15:35:35 NineX: the "factory reset" builds in memory a default environment (which includes a default partition table) and boots Dec 02 15:37:00 mwester: I tried friday night to get a fix in my home, and failed; the next day I went to a nearby park (still a lot of buildings around, but I can see the whole sky instead of just half of it), and it got a 3D fix Dec 02 15:37:26 mwester: and, most interesting, after that I can easily get a fix even inside my home, in the same places it didn't get a fix before Dec 02 15:37:47 mwester: it probably saved the "last known good fix" and is using it to select the correct satelites or something like that Dec 02 15:38:35 mwester: so, you could try staying for some minutes in a area with a good view of the sky, until it gets a fix, and then try again in the places it wasn't working before Dec 02 15:45:46 cesarb, can confirm this Dec 02 15:46:10 josch: ? Dec 02 15:46:27 cesarb, I mean this behaviour of gps Dec 02 15:46:33 was the same for me Dec 02 15:46:40 don't know why though Dec 02 15:47:07 hey Dec 02 15:47:14 josch: I'm guessing the nvram dat files were included in the package by mistake, and are in fact pointing somewhere in the exact opposite place in the globe Dec 02 15:47:19 anyone have any idea of what the difference between the consumer-ready and developer hardware will be? Dec 02 15:47:29 Ok, that's encouraging. The sats were all low on the horizon when I was outside last (according to the Garmin, anyway). The Garmin now says I have a bunch of them closer to directly overhead, and the Neo is outside on the table. We'll see shortly :) Dec 02 15:47:41 josch: which confuses the optimization which uses the last known good fix, until it gets enough sats to be 100% sure it's wrong Dec 02 15:48:00 what are the nvram files for anyway? Dec 02 15:48:17 mwester: the sats are all kinda low around here ;-) I think no track passes overhead... Dec 02 15:48:19 * mwester was also wondering what the magical nvram files were for... Dec 02 15:48:38 josch: I'm guessing that they store useful things like last known good fix, last known good almanac... Dec 02 15:48:44 cesarb: that could be good - they are for military use, after all :D Dec 02 15:49:21 mwester: the civilian uses probably already way surpassed the military uses Dec 02 15:49:36 mwester: it's generally useful for everyone, military or not Dec 02 15:49:36 So if that's the case, then the presence of them would be the very worst thing when one travels from Ottawa to Chicago. Dec 02 15:49:58 mwester: but we really need a _local_ positioning system too, for when we're inside buildings or "urban canyon"s Dec 02 15:50:13 Oh I know - I'm just stirring the pot (there's always a few people about who distrust GPS because of the military heritage. Dec 02 15:50:35 cesarb: A _local_ system is exactly the project I was intending to work on with the neo. Dec 02 15:50:38 mwester: _computers_ have a military heritage Dec 02 15:50:52 8Here there are little girls??? Dec 02 15:51:15 <_diego__> does anybody knows what .ipk should I install for using struct module in python? Dec 02 15:52:12 mwester: if there's a good reason to mistrust GPS, it would be because it's US-controlled (but that reason only applies if you mistrust the US government/military in particular) Dec 02 15:52:25 The idea was that one would have a database, and a daemon that would collect and correlate all forms of data that could be used for positioning: GSM towers, wireless hotspot MACs, bluetooth MACs, etc. Combined with the motion detectors, the Neo would be able to "guess" if you had entered the executive boardroom and placed the Neo face-down on the desk -- and automatically go into "do not disturb" mode. Dec 02 15:53:29 mwester, this sounds soooo scifi to me ^^ Dec 02 15:53:33 mwester: I also had the same idea (but not as far as the "gesture" part of putting the neo in the desk, perhaps since I usually leave my cell phone in my pocket or belt all the time to avoid losing it) Dec 02 15:54:32 mwester: I know there is a database of all the cell towers in my country (which unfortunately seems to have moved to somewhere I didn't find yet; that website is confusing). IIRC it had the coordinates for them, but unfortunately not their network IDs Dec 02 15:54:57 GPS is one way : from them > to you, there is no reason for being paranoid at all Dec 02 15:55:04 what us carriers support the neo1973? Dec 02 15:55:11 worst thing person controling GPS can do is to shut it down Dec 02 15:55:31 m4t, the neo is unlocked Dec 02 15:55:44 mwester: but combining the "engineering mode" (%EM) output with some learning mode (while outside, try to find out where the cells are; so, when inside, you can have a good guess as to what the GPS would say) could get some interesting results Dec 02 15:55:45 m4t, ah you mean the 850 issue? Dec 02 15:56:01 josch: don't forget the 3G SIM issue Dec 02 15:56:07 The motion detectors are a key ingredient I think; they allow the neo to do some really cool things. For example, if the GPS says it has moved a great distance, and it is late in the evening, and the neo has not been moved in some time, it would great if it would just quietly beep and offer to set an alarm for the morning -- the "business traveller" profile. Dec 02 15:56:50 yea im using sprint right now and i know thats cdma Dec 02 15:56:55 so im not sure if its in my area Dec 02 15:56:57 mwester: the main obstacle currently, as I see it, is the fact that the kernel control of the battery power is problematic Dec 02 15:57:00 do u guys use att or what? Dec 02 15:57:24 cesarb, just carry around a huge battery pack :-P Dec 02 15:57:25 im in cincinnati btw Dec 02 15:57:26 cesarb: Yes. I've been terribly disappointed by the reality of the hardware as it relates to my dream application. Dec 02 15:57:54 mwester: as I said, I went outside to get a fix; came back home and got a fix at the windows.... and the phone _powered off_ and didn't power back on Dec 02 15:57:57 m4t: T-Mobile. The Neo pukes on most AT&T/Cingular SIMS. Dec 02 15:58:18 mwester: half an hour of USB power cured it, but even then that's ridiculously wrong Dec 02 15:58:26 I've noticed the battery guage doesn't actually change to indicate the charge remaining. Dec 02 15:58:34 mwester: it should _warn_ of low battery, shutdown on low battery... Dec 02 15:58:40 mwester: yeah, it was half full Dec 02 15:58:59 ... and when the Neo powers off, it should turn off *everything* IMO. Dec 02 15:59:04 mwester: so, we have two problems: Dec 02 15:59:20 1. the way it deals with low battery is awful Dec 02 15:59:28 2. it eats way too much battery Dec 02 15:59:56 3. it doesn't resume from suspend very well at all Dec 02 15:59:59 mwester: actually, it only needs to turn off the amp and the modem. the PMU turns off the rest. Dec 02 16:00:12 <_diego__> 2) is well known, is the reason for the delay of GTA02 Dec 02 16:00:25 Are you sure the GPS is not also on the wrong side of the PMU chip? Dec 02 16:00:34 mwester: fun experiment: plug the usb, power menu, "lock" (which actually means susped), unplug the usb. locked up neo! Dec 02 16:00:56 <_diego__> cesarb, it works for me (most of the time, not always) Dec 02 16:01:03 mwester: speedevil (IIRC) did a lot of experiments, and the only issues were the amp and the modem Dec 02 16:01:11 <_diego__> it just exit from suspend Dec 02 16:01:26 mwester: also, the info you can get by looking at the wiki/mailing lists point to only those two directly on the battery Dec 02 16:01:43 _diego__: for me, it exited from suspend into text mode, with a single kernel message on top Dec 02 16:01:49 cesarb: There have been a number of interesting bug-battles of late, perhaps you didn't see those? Dec 02 16:02:00 ~ombug 1003 Dec 02 16:02:00 mwester: I'm still catching up Dec 02 16:02:03 ~ombug 1003 Dec 02 16:02:10 !ombug 1003 Dec 02 16:02:11 * * Bug 1003, Status: REOPENED, Created: Unknown Dec 02 16:02:12 * * mwester(AT)dls.net: GSM modem is not powered down when Linux is shut down Dec 02 16:02:13 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1003 Dec 02 16:02:21 mwester: went "too busy irl" away for a couple of weeks Dec 02 16:02:33 Ah, ok. Dec 02 16:02:58 mwester: I think I caught up with about half of the buglog list for the past month alreay Dec 02 16:03:15 yea i think there's t-mobile service here Dec 02 16:03:21 heh after while of googling about GPS hacks: U.S. military claimed to destroy a GPS jammer with a GPS-guided bomb during the Iraq War. Dec 02 16:03:23 <_diego__> I've upgraded my software 3 or 4 time, but never had consistent problem with resume Dec 02 16:03:30 what do you see wrong on that sentence? Dec 02 16:03:36 Mononoke: nothing Dec 02 16:03:37 * cesarb has also read about something called "monotone.openmoko.org" and has no clue yet as to what it's about. A different tree? Dec 02 16:03:45 speaking of speedevil... Dec 02 16:03:51 how can GPS guided bomb destroy GPS jammer ? Dec 02 16:04:00 Mononoke: the GPS aided JDAM assistance kits have an increased error if they can't use GPS Dec 02 16:04:07 however they have internal inertial navigation Dec 02 16:04:22 and are wired to the planes inertial navigation and GPS till it's released Dec 02 16:04:26 SpeedEvil: thx :) it just sounded wired Dec 02 16:04:44 they are less accurate - but much more accurate than a 'dumb' bomb Dec 02 16:05:05 Mononoke: blowing up a jammer is easy with an anti-radiation missile... jammers are just too visible Dec 02 16:05:14 err - no Dec 02 16:05:21 jammers can be made for $10 Dec 02 16:05:29 missiles cost $100K+ Dec 02 16:05:58 It's much easier to jam civil GPS, but military GPS can be jammed too. However, it doesn't help. Dec 02 16:06:00 SpeedEvil: I said easy, not cost-effective ;-) Dec 02 16:06:21 Because if you're up against a world power, it doesn't matter. Dec 02 16:06:24 so building bunch of jammers jamming sky :) Dec 02 16:06:30 As they are not sitting over your jammer. Dec 02 16:06:51 But flying from where they have good GPS coverage to make their INS accurate. Dec 02 16:06:53 jamming gps?? URL OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! Dec 02 16:07:12 josch: phrack Dec 02 16:07:13 lol Dec 02 16:07:31 josch: http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=43404&&pageID=1 Dec 02 16:07:37 so yes the INS starts to drift as they come over your jammer field - but unless it's >> 1 hour, it doesn't really drift enough to make it hard. Dec 02 16:07:42 josch: (source: wikipedia) Dec 02 16:08:00 there are no building i nstructions :-( Dec 02 16:08:07 Consider even with coding gain that the GPS satellites broadcast about 50Kw over the entire earths surface. Dec 02 16:08:23 50kw hmm Dec 02 16:08:26 a 10W jammer is inexpensive Dec 02 16:08:27 enough to bake chicken :) Dec 02 16:08:50 (the real power is 50W, the power you need to jam them is 50kW) Dec 02 16:08:50 bake... more like incinerate Dec 02 16:09:23 or... you just take out the satelite and be done with it ? Dec 02 16:09:24 what would directed jamming do to satelite? let's say I would have some antena with ~50kW turned on satelite > Dec 02 16:09:39 leila: not easy Dec 02 16:09:46 sydan, not impossible Dec 02 16:10:16 and way better price for missile vs price for sat ratio :) Dec 02 16:10:19 leila: aside from control hacks, u need a missle that can make geo-sync? Dec 02 16:10:21 and as there aren't so many satelites but you realy don't have problem to collect 50kW antenas and so.. Dec 02 16:11:28 you don't need 50Kw - you need 50Kw * beamwidth at satellite Dec 02 16:11:41 even with deep-space-network class dishes (34m) this is quite large Dec 02 16:12:57 Meanwhile, back at the NSA, a bit of code running on a supercomputer in the basement has flagged this channel, and has begun to track/trace messages to the originators... :P Dec 02 16:13:16 but is it even possible to do such thing like jamming directly the satelite? Dec 02 16:13:55 http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.space.history/browse_thread/thread/302bbf6241b1f0be/ef309ade40b98cfa?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%22gps+jamming%22+sci.space.policy#ef309ade40b98cfa Dec 02 16:13:58 basically not Dec 02 16:14:10 you can't jam the satellite without burning stuff on it out Dec 02 16:14:16 i wonder... high altitude plain + large microwave Dec 02 16:14:24 plane* Dec 02 16:14:29 leila: do the numbers. Dec 02 16:14:38 i dont know the numbers Dec 02 16:14:49 leila: you need a dish kilometers across to make an appreciable amount of the otuput energy hit the sat Dec 02 16:15:03 From memory around 800Km at 2.4Ghz Dec 02 16:15:12 lol Dec 02 16:15:29 And it needs to be out of the atmosphere, or the water vapor will absorb the energy. Dec 02 16:15:39 easier to build a laser i suppose Dec 02 16:15:53 Lasers will be dispersed by the atmosphere. Dec 02 16:15:56 mwester: naah - most microwaves get out of the atmosphere just fine. Hence satellite TV Dec 02 16:16:18 hmm laser could actualy work :) Dec 02 16:16:20 mwester, they already can work around that by compensation Dec 02 16:16:25 but that would be quite big laser Dec 02 16:16:28 Bottom line is that it's still far more efficient to put something into orbit, manipulate it alongside the victim satellite, then blow it up. Dec 02 16:16:35 large ... yes Dec 02 16:16:36 mwester: err - no Dec 02 16:16:55 getting anything on orbit is still quite expensive Dec 02 16:17:06 mwester: it's more efficient to shoot something up to orbital altitude, and explode a payload of 5mm tungsten ball bearings in fron to fhte sat Dec 02 16:17:07 * josch thinks jamming gps is for pussies - why not directly nuke the satellites? Dec 02 16:17:10 and most of spy agencies know exact content of every rocket Dec 02 16:17:14 Getting lasers or dishes that large is also quite expensive. Dec 02 16:17:21 SpeedEvil, seconded Dec 02 16:17:31 so in short GPS seems to be safe :) Dec 02 16:17:42 yup Dec 02 16:17:47 with the cloud density set to hit it with 20 or so bbs Dec 02 16:18:03 SpeedEvil: how about some decoy targets instead? http://www.missileballoon.com/simulated.html Dec 02 16:18:05 josch: blowing sats up can cause a chain reaction which makes a large amount of orbits unusable for decades Dec 02 16:18:33 OJW: the GPS sats are not able to dodge and their orbits are well-known to the cm. Dec 02 16:18:54 however, getting something to GPS altitude is bloody hard. Dec 02 16:18:58 * josch goes getting some rockets duct taped together Dec 02 16:19:14 Knocking down LEO stuff is possible for anyone that can make an IRBM Dec 02 16:19:46 cesarb has the best point in this conversation tho Dec 02 16:19:57 imho easyer is hacking those sats while using some information from NASA, still seems to be more possible than builing large laser :) Dec 02 16:19:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_Syndrome Dec 02 16:20:36 Mononoke: the uplink for the gps sats is most likely encrypted (due to its original military main use) Dec 02 16:21:02 cesarb: it's published that the sats can operate (in degraded mode) for weeks with no comms from earth Dec 02 16:21:30 cesarb: the most recent ones can even compute a position between them to remove some sources of error. Dec 02 16:21:45 cesarb: ranging between the sats to compute relative orbits. Dec 02 16:22:10 SpeedEvil: cool Dec 02 16:24:42 * mwester discovers that he is 233m above sea level, according to the NEO. Dec 02 16:25:05 Ooh - must have been an earthquake -- now at 232. Dec 02 16:25:15 :) Dec 02 16:25:16 vertical res is not that good Dec 02 16:25:20 without WAAS Dec 02 16:25:35 mwester: so you have a fix now? Dec 02 16:25:51 Which of these figures give an idea of relative accuracy? Dec 02 16:26:18 borg_: Yep, with sats directly overhead, and outside, it finally got a fix. :) Dec 02 16:26:25 nice :) Dec 02 16:27:46 Interesting. It has 6 of them within the 45 degree arc overhead, but it has rejected one of those, and selected two far closer to the horizon. Dec 02 16:28:03 mwester: it also got several meters of variation in the vertical direction for me (not to mention when it decided I was standing over water, and when I try on a window it thinks I'm on the other side of the street) Dec 02 16:28:44 btw is it possible to make Openmoko to triangulate positions of BTS while using GPS ? Dec 02 16:30:16 when will the 'more useful' version of the neo be launched? I thought it was october but i still see 'developer version'.. Dec 02 16:30:19 mwester: I don't think estimated error is in the standard NMEA output - sometimes its a proprietary sentence PGRME on garmin Dec 02 16:30:21 GPS + map + position of BTS + signal strength from BTS = ideal debugging Dec 02 16:30:45 not that most mobile companies already have such stuff Dec 02 16:30:48 sorry just read the title Dec 02 16:33:57 Writchie: there's a "dilution of position" thingy Dec 02 16:34:00 good morning Dec 02 16:34:40 why is openembedded creating directories in my /usr/src (owned by root)? Dec 02 16:35:26 * cesarb thinks it would be way cooler if the gps hardware only sent the sattelite data and the part which calculates the position was free software Dec 02 16:35:51 cesarb: i think the dilution of position is horizontal onlly IIRC Dec 02 16:37:48 vertical too Dec 02 16:38:05 Writchie: the reference I'm looking at shows separate horizontal and vertical DOP Dec 02 16:38:13 Writchie: there's also a "position" DOP Dec 02 16:38:15 hdop and vdop is seperate Dec 02 16:38:25 they are both really shortcuts Dec 02 16:38:43 the 'right' measure is a wierd blobby shape with the error in each direction Dec 02 16:38:54 Looks like the GTGSA sentence has both Dec 02 16:39:17 which tends to be widest where the position uncertainty around that axis is poorest Dec 02 16:40:10 and without WAAS the blob is bigger vertically Dec 02 16:40:23 usually - depending on the geometry Dec 02 16:40:24 for ecample, if you're next to a (non-reflecting) wall, on a clear horizon, then with an even distribution of satellites, the worst uncertainty will be towards the wall and down Dec 02 16:40:31 (on that axis) Dec 02 16:48:59 just thinking out loud: I'm thinking parts of gsmd would have to be moved to the kernel, so the kernel can always control the gsm power (knowing when and how to issue the @POFF command) Dec 02 16:50:55 cesarb: it's not so much power onoff as suspend/resume. Dec 02 16:51:29 to put the modem in gsm idle able to wakeup from presume requires stuff at the serial driver level. Dec 02 16:52:43 in general, not neo specific, it could also require things be done at GSM7.10 mux level, since that were the standard GSM sleep/awake stuff is specified. Dec 02 16:52:52 mwester: Reason I pinged you was because I wondered if you had tested your kernel with a recent rootfs - from my (and other people's) experience, Alsa does not work with it =\ Dec 02 17:08:09 abraxa_: No, I've not tested recently. I guess I should take a look, but it will probably have to wait until later in the week, as I 'm on the road again for a while. Dec 02 17:08:43 Does the Hardware run faster than QEMU? Dec 02 17:09:03 mwester: Ah okay... and don't worry, the stock kernel does work as a replacement - just thought I'd let you know Dec 02 17:09:08 mrcucumber: Yes, definitely Dec 02 17:09:36 Hello Dec 02 17:09:37 That's good. Dec 02 17:09:51 Heya Neolink Dec 02 17:11:48 What Dec 02 17:12:10 What are you want Dec 02 17:12:19 ops Dec 02 17:12:32 I feel good Dec 02 17:13:34 mrcucumber: ballpark - the hardware behaves as a P100, with a poor display card. Dec 02 17:13:51 mrcucumber: the exception is memory bandwidth, which is much better than in P100 dayss Dec 02 17:19:24 moin Dec 02 17:19:44 openmoko server down? Dec 02 17:19:50 or having problems? Dec 02 17:23:01 buildhost and wiki are working just fine here Dec 02 17:24:20 ERROR Dec 02 17:24:22 The requested URL could not be retrieved Dec 02 17:24:32 Which URL? Dec 02 17:24:34 Generated Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:37:25 GMT by openmoko.xelerance.com (squid/2.6.STABLE5) Dec 02 17:24:40 any URL Dec 02 17:24:48 For what host? Dec 02 17:25:09 The following error was encountered: Dec 02 17:25:09 * Invalid Request Dec 02 17:25:11 mh Dec 02 17:25:20 just www.openmoko.org Dec 02 17:25:27 yeah Dec 02 17:25:44 are they changing something? Dec 02 17:25:48 it worked five minutes ago on my n770 Dec 02 17:25:55 * abraxa_ shrugs as long as buildhost and wiki work Dec 02 17:26:36 funny Dec 02 17:28:36 nah, does totally not work here Dec 02 17:31:12 hhf423 you can try nailing 193.110.157.154 in as www.openmoko.org in your hosts file.. currently investigating Dec 02 17:31:30 roh: ok, thanks. I was using google cache :-) Dec 02 17:32:20 seems one of the forwarding proxys makes problems, the rest should work Dec 02 17:34:38 Installing gllin (1.0+r350-r0) to root... Dec 02 17:38:44 hhf423 gismo is checking it out. thanks for reporting Dec 02 17:39:39 roh: np Dec 02 17:39:52 just remember, when something odd happens and you do not know of any moko-hackers around, just file a bug against the infrastructure in bugzilla. that way we guranteed get the info if we are on or not ;) Dec 02 17:39:56 * hhf423 is waiting for the neo to get a fix Dec 02 17:40:11 roh: ah, ok Dec 02 17:41:02 roh: say, at some point in time there were some king of "nightly builds" on openmoko buildhost. That has stopped. Is that going to be started again at some point? Dec 02 17:41:34 hhf423 i dunno do be fair, but yes, i want them also Dec 02 17:41:47 I mean, using the community provided images is fine, but in a way you can not be sure how much they deviate from standard openmoko Dec 02 17:42:02 roh: maybe you can take that up with someone? Dec 02 17:42:10 yes. we are currently working on a new snapshop (well.. mickey is) Dec 02 17:42:33 roh: sure, but that would be one of the tested snapshots, right? Dec 02 17:42:34 and i think we should have these and nighly builds for people to try Dec 02 17:43:22 uh, what does PGLOR,IGR,81.2,7,71397,0,1*02 mean when coming from gllin? Dec 02 17:43:25 snapshots are manually selected compositions. that also involves selecting the sane-svn revisions for everything and lots of testing (manual) Dec 02 17:44:23 roh: I understand that, and its a good thing, because we can point beginners there. but if anyone does feel more like an adventure :-) Dec 02 17:44:31 now we got our own mtn repo which gets manually fed from org.oe.dev to get it more stable (for moko) and have less often broken builds Dec 02 17:44:58 PGLOR,IGR,81.2,7,71413,0,1*09 Dec 02 17:45:39 hhf423 i think it would be best that you file the nightly builds as a bug. that way anybody can comment we an do not loose track Dec 02 17:46:07 roh: ah, can do that Dec 02 17:46:15 tnx Dec 02 17:46:46 hhf423: it seems to be a basic state reporting Dec 02 17:47:33 the second field goes to 'FIX' when it's got a fix Dec 02 17:48:02 ah..its a NMEA private filed from GL ;) Dec 02 17:48:07 yeah Dec 02 17:48:09 eh field Dec 02 17:48:15 the info seems mostly there in other ways Dec 02 17:48:17 makes sense P GL OR Dec 02 17:49:08 ah Dec 02 17:51:36 wtf? Dec 02 17:51:36 NOTE: Task failed: /home/j/hak/openmoko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-dates2-0.1.0+svnr661-r2/temp/log.do_configure.11234 Dec 02 17:51:44 anyone able to complete a build this weekend? Dec 02 17:51:49 whats going on, anyone know? Dec 02 17:53:42 torpor: from the community build, celtune has the most up to date Dec 02 17:54:01 * * OM Bug 1065 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de Dec 02 17:54:02 * * No nightly build available Dec 02 17:54:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1065 Dec 02 17:54:07 i want to try to complete my own bild gainst the new openmoko mtn .. been running it for 2 days but it just crapped out. Dec 02 17:54:10 anyone finished it? Dec 02 17:54:56 the latest stuff still does not ask for PIN for me Dec 02 17:55:44 is there any workaround? Dec 02 17:56:09 I can see in the logs that there is a PIN request, but the GUI does not seem to pick it up Dec 02 17:59:41 hello all Dec 02 18:00:11 anybody is using ipkg with SD card to store installed files on? Dec 02 18:00:13 hi zdanek Dec 02 18:01:00 hi Dec 02 18:01:16 I got some problems with linking installed files Dec 02 18:01:30 I do all according to the wiki Dec 02 18:03:16 is it normal to get this error: ** (matchbox-panel-2:2124): DEBUG: battery_applet: timeout Dec 02 18:03:52 and got errors Dec 02 18:05:34 hhf423: are you using ipkg with SD card? Dec 02 18:05:44 zdanek: no Dec 02 18:06:12 anybody else does? Dec 02 18:06:28 I think celtune does Dec 02 18:10:13 so Dec 02 18:10:26 just taped the neo to the window. hope it get a fix :-) Dec 02 18:10:41 :) Dec 02 18:11:23 but why would I get that matchbox error? Dec 02 18:12:37 hahaha Dec 02 18:12:45 putin's party won Dec 02 18:12:52 who would have guessed that? Dec 02 18:13:01 hrhr Dec 02 18:13:10 in soviet russia, parties vote YOU! Dec 02 18:16:41 guys, I install gllin and I get ipkg: invalid magic Dec 02 18:16:58 zdanek: how big ist gllin? Dec 02 18:17:20 package is 10k Dec 02 18:17:26 hehe Dec 02 18:17:31 than make vi gllin Dec 02 18:17:35 or open it with firefox ;) Dec 02 18:17:35 after decompression? I don't know Dec 02 18:17:41 you probably downloaded the webpage Dec 02 18:17:44 ehee Dec 02 18:17:58 you cant copy the link and donwload it with wget or something similar Dec 02 18:18:07 because they want you to accept the eula Dec 02 18:18:16 1976050 2007-12-02 18:30 gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Dec 02 18:18:21 so download it with your browser and scp it to the neo or something Dec 02 18:18:42 sure! thx borg_ Dec 02 18:18:43 :D Dec 02 18:18:55