**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 06 03:00:00 2007 Dec 06 03:02:31 I understand no discussion of delivery dates, but my question is that I remember that the phone for consumers was to be made available a year ago september Dec 06 03:02:53 what has been the main cause of the delays? Dec 06 03:06:10 $300, ?!?! Dec 06 03:17:09 abraxa_, should i remove the other configs? Dec 06 04:27:22 any kernel hackers about? Dec 06 05:43:03 ScaredyCat, ping Dec 06 05:45:16 balrog-kun: which patches are you talking about? Dec 06 05:46:17 the only things I can find on the list are gta02 audio and the bug 788 fix Dec 06 05:46:31 everything that is not submitted to openmoko-kernel is _very_ hard for me to find Dec 06 05:49:09 03laforge * r3584 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta02-sound.patch series): add GTA02v2 sound driver from Graeme Gregory Dec 06 06:02:32 03laforge * r3585 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: Dec 06 06:02:32 glamo: report vram size to userspace. Set fb_fix_screeninfo.smem_len to Dec 06 06:02:32 RESSIZE(fb_res). This is not the real vram size, as it is a hardcoded value in Dec 06 06:02:32 glamo-core.c for now. (Chia-I Wu) Dec 06 06:04:04 josch: Nice decorations :D (http://rabenfrost.net/josch/100_5296.JPG) Dec 06 06:10:23 off-topic - anyone have a powertop kernel clue? Dec 06 06:10:39 I've just tried powertop on my laptop. Dec 06 06:10:55 But, with powertop on, the fan does not go off and it gets hot. Dec 06 06:11:08 s/go off/stays on/ so I suspect the results Dec 06 06:11:15 (after the required kernel changes) Dec 06 06:11:23 * CM doesn't even have a laptop Dec 06 06:13:35 03laforge * r3586 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: GTA02: Use S3C2442 as default CPU, offer S3C2440 support for backwards compat to early hardware Dec 06 06:13:57 03laforge * r3587 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-sound.patch: make gta02-sound.patch compile with 2.6.24.x Dec 06 06:32:14 03laforge * r3588 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (3 files): add two more ASOC core fixes Dec 06 06:32:44 glad to see laforge is still at it Dec 06 06:44:46 ewon: as indicated in my blog, i'm just bringing it into shape for mainline submission Dec 06 06:45:52 LaF0rge: I mean I'm glad you're still involved... Dec 06 06:47:09 even if this is your last commit, so to speak, we appreciate the effort you've put in. Dec 06 06:47:41 yeah, i just don't want to raise false hope ;) Dec 06 06:48:30 * SpeedEvil passes LaF0rge a gilded really nice chocolate moulded as a real neo. Dec 06 06:48:52 heh that would not last long given my sweet tooth Dec 06 06:49:34 I find oddly that - for me - expensive chocolate can be cheaper for me than cheap chocolate. Dec 06 06:49:59 As I don't eat the whole bar at once, and concentrate on the exploding flavour, rather than simply gobbling it down. Dec 06 06:52:44 oh, i can relate to that. there's an absolutely astounding chocolate cake available here in cork, a single crumb of which can give pleasure for minutes at a time. Dec 06 06:53:09 i know a couple of girls who call it "cake with a capital O" Dec 06 06:53:13 03laforge * r3589 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch smedia-glamo.patch): Dec 06 06:53:13 GLAMO: LCMs can run under VGA and QVGA mode. The timing characteristics should be Dec 06 06:53:13 provided to help driver initialization. (Chia-I Wu ) Dec 06 06:56:09 http://buildhost.openmoko.org is down? Dec 06 07:01:17 03laforge * r3590 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: Dec 06 07:01:17 GLAMO: Move modeline setting to a function of itself. Call this function on Dec 06 07:01:17 initialization and set_par. (Chia-I Wu ) Dec 06 07:05:36 03laforge * r3591 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: GLAMO: Adjust DCLK ratio to match the desired pixclock. (Chia-I Wu ) Dec 06 07:06:42 If false hope is this productive I don't care that it's false.. ;) Dec 06 07:07:03 what's the current state of the smedia driver? Dec 06 07:15:43 hey can any of you guys watch this video i made? And yes im the girl Dec 06 07:15:45 http://youtube.com/watch?v=eXdkyAyOcGo Dec 06 07:16:56 wow, Miro actually picked that up Dec 06 07:16:57 sweet Dec 06 07:18:04 hmm it sure doesn't want to play it though Dec 06 07:20:38 it's spam Dec 06 07:20:51 it has nothing to do with openmoko Dec 06 07:21:16 yeah, i just wanted to see if Miro could answer my search for eXdkyAyOcGo Dec 06 07:29:21 strange Dec 06 07:29:47 openmoko boots only if I first boot into bootloader Dec 06 07:29:58 otherwise it won't go past the first logo Dec 06 07:30:16 probably something screwqy in your environment Dec 06 07:31:02 possibly Dec 06 07:31:25 ahven: I've had that problem too Dec 06 07:31:35 Or rather, still have it Dec 06 07:31:43 But I have to boot with factory reset :( Dec 06 07:32:34 it was fine some hours ago Dec 06 07:32:43 and no changes between that Dec 06 07:32:59 Oh, ok. That doesn't sound good Dec 06 07:39:45 moin Dec 06 07:41:11 ahven: did you flash the bootloader? Dec 06 07:41:46 that happens withu-boot since the Aug. snapshot Dec 06 07:42:19 Some race condition? Dec 06 07:45:39 ljp: yep Dec 06 07:45:55 but the first few boots were fine though Dec 06 07:46:06 or is it random? Dec 06 07:48:09 It's kind of strange that uboot has been somewhat broken for almost 4 months now.. Dec 06 07:50:48 :) Dec 06 07:53:52 CM: I've never been able to reproduce the problem when using the u-boot decompressor Dec 06 07:54:05 it only happens for me if you use the kernel deocompressor Dec 06 07:54:14 LaF0rge: I can imagine that it's hard to find :( Dec 06 07:54:37 mickey says it;s not the case and actually different. but he never uses a serial console to actually debug whats going on Dec 06 07:54:48 neiter has anyone else ever submitted a detailed serial kernel bootlog Dec 06 07:54:53 at least to my knowledge Dec 06 07:55:00 Mine neither Dec 06 07:55:17 What is needed to make such a log? Dec 06 07:55:31 so apparently the problem is not important enough for anyone to dig further Dec 06 07:55:37 cm: debug board and minicom ;) Dec 06 07:55:42 Hmm.. Dec 06 07:56:09 I just got my hands on a debug board, but didn't get it working at first Dec 06 07:56:55 I'll try to figure out how to use it properly next week :) Dec 06 07:57:35 * CM is moving across the country and it's a never ending time sink Dec 06 07:59:34 LaF0rge: probably because everyone assumes those at openmoko are seeing the same bugs we are and are actively doing something about them Dec 06 08:17:57 an awkward question, but how do you mark mines, when you have only 1 click, no rightclick? :) Dec 06 08:18:56 hold it on it? Dec 06 08:19:10 or something, im not sure what rightclick is in this context :p Dec 06 08:19:44 minesweeper clone I assume Dec 06 08:20:00 you left-click to clear a square Dec 06 08:20:16 you right-click to mark your guesses as to where mines are Dec 06 08:20:43 yeah, but if he's doing it on a neo... Dec 06 08:20:54 What's a right click on a neo/in OM? Dec 06 08:38:38 CM: its not easy Dec 06 08:39:38 Is there a SMS-reader app on the phone? Dec 06 08:40:12 libgsmd-tool is crashing when I ask it to Dec 06 08:42:00 SpeedEvil, there was a python script that did that; check projects.openmoko.org? Dec 06 08:42:41 oh well - I can do the manual thingy Dec 06 08:42:44 torpor: It shows up in lsusb, but I couldn't get openocd to find it and ran out if time Dec 06 08:43:39 And that uboot debug is not really something I think I can handle, but if I could at least log a failed boot someone who knows more might be able to figure it out :) Dec 06 08:44:48 its really a pain in the ass, honestly Dec 06 08:45:01 you have to jiggle cables to make it work. Dec 06 08:45:08 :-/ Dec 06 08:45:51 03laforge * r3592 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-core.patch: Dec 06 08:45:51 * gta01: make sure upper/lower margin of LCM is set correct Dec 06 08:45:51 * gta01: make sure we start with a default resolution of 640x480 Dec 06 08:46:28 i had really a hard time with it and came pretty close to giving up on openmoko when i couldn't debrick my phone with my expensive debug board that doesn't work .. Dec 06 08:47:23 yay LaF0rge is on a roll Dec 06 08:47:33 XorA: Sure is :) Dec 06 08:50:33 how do I use screen to attach to the modem? Dec 06 08:59:52 <_diego_> you should run screen on the device attached to the modem (or on remote) Dec 06 09:02:00 * * OM Bug 1097 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Dec 06 09:02:01 * * SIM use cases Dec 06 09:02:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 Dec 06 09:03:00 * * OM Bug 1098 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Dec 06 09:03:01 * * NET use cases Dec 06 09:03:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1098 Dec 06 09:04:00 * * OM Bug 1099 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Dec 06 09:04:01 * * EVENT use cases Dec 06 09:04:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1099 Dec 06 09:05:00 * * OM Bug 1100 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Dec 06 09:05:02 * * libgsmd use cases Dec 06 09:05:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1100 Dec 06 09:07:47 Okaaay. Dec 06 09:07:49 AT+CMGL="ALL" Dec 06 09:07:49 +CMS ERROR: 321 Dec 06 09:07:54 any thoughts? Dec 06 09:44:42 hmm. Dec 06 09:44:50 shouldnt the device boot ootb ? Dec 06 09:45:00 or do i need to prep it for first use? Dec 06 09:45:16 not if the battery isn't charged, and it doesn't have a rootfs by default either. Dec 06 09:45:46 aha. Dec 06 09:45:57 where on the wiki do ilook for the info to set it up? Dec 06 09:46:42 there should have been a card in the box with a URL Dec 06 09:46:56 The "Some Assembly Required" card :-) Dec 06 09:49:22 rwhitby: none :) Dec 06 09:49:47 Odd. I had something that looked like a beer coaster Dec 06 09:50:12 Is the wiki down btw? Dec 06 09:51:21 sort-of Dec 06 09:52:24 I don't understand this. Dec 06 09:52:43 My modem is seeming to pretend that it doesn't understand what SMSs might be. Dec 06 09:56:04 hi Dec 06 09:56:26 someone know how to disable 'touchscreen clicks' on neo? Dec 06 09:56:56 disable the sounds in the matchbox start Dec 06 09:56:59 hrw, remove the soundfiles :D Dec 06 09:57:06 remove the speakers. Dec 06 09:57:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_sound Dec 06 09:57:25 SpeedEvil: CMS ERROR: 321 Invalid memory index Dec 06 09:57:27 use that Dec 06 09:57:38 hrw: I know that. Dec 06 09:57:56 comment out the 'load-sample touchscreen' line Dec 06 09:57:57 hrw: but I don't understand how to get round it to get my SMS Dec 06 09:58:29 ScaredyCat: I wonder when there will be application for such stuff Dec 06 09:58:48 dunno, but I comment them out automatically in my builds :) Dec 06 09:58:51 or usable calendar Dec 06 09:59:25 cause it is sad to say but openmoko-dates are unusable now Dec 06 10:00:18 * ScaredyCat has never used a calendar on a mobile device.... Dec 06 10:00:31 ScaredyCat: I use it a lot on my cellphone Dec 06 10:00:48 hrw same here Dec 06 10:01:11 ScaredyCat: being a firmware cook yourself, which is atm the best firmware if you want to send/receive sms's and calls? Dec 06 10:01:38 xcasex: the 'november' snapshot seems to work ok for me for calls Dec 06 10:01:39 just tried to add one event in OM calendar - took me too much time and I lost hairs doing this Dec 06 10:01:46 well, I can't say until I've tested the lastest one I;ve built :) Dec 06 10:02:08 recent builds are fine fo calls... Dec 06 10:02:19 but sms is another thing Dec 06 10:05:14 ScaredyCat: What are you building at the moment? Dec 06 10:05:31 * CM builds bleeding edge with autorev :P Dec 06 10:06:38 * guaqua relies on his mobile for calendar Dec 06 10:07:02 so a working one for openmoko would be in my interests Dec 06 10:08:09 guaqua: there is one working. but hard to use Dec 06 10:08:52 integration with desktop caledar / pim software would be so cool. i actually might have some ideas to contribute in the realm of sharing the calendar data Dec 06 10:09:07 hrw: okay Dec 06 10:14:16 CM: bleeding edge + autorev Dec 06 10:16:21 If there are no SMSs - somehow it's got deleted - should AT+CMGL="ALL" Dec 06 10:16:25 return error? Dec 06 10:27:07 * hrw has no idea Dec 06 10:28:33 buildhost.openmoko.org is down? Dec 06 10:29:13 * Stephmw skips with the server's cat6 cable Dec 06 10:31:48 Odd. Dec 06 10:31:55 I now get 'SIM Wrong'. Dec 06 10:32:06 has psplash been fixed yet? Dec 06 10:34:00 * ScaredyCat would like to point out that t-mobile is NOT my home hetwork Dec 06 10:34:03 network Dec 06 10:34:27 ? Dec 06 10:34:57 was that aimed at me? Dec 06 10:35:02 (it's mine) Dec 06 10:35:30 no Dec 06 10:36:03 m neo just told me that it had registered to it and the type was 'home network' Dec 06 10:39:42 :o Dec 06 10:39:57 lock screen has funky bg Dec 06 10:40:51 * ScaredyCat points @ scap Dec 06 10:42:23 03laforge * r3593 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-backlight.patch: sync commit 3212 from 2.6.22.x: remove dynamic pclk-dependent backlight pwm counter calculation, sicne it no longer works with new pwm api Dec 06 10:42:36 ScaredyCat: psplash was changed for me, but I got some conflict because I had modified my own versions :) Dec 06 10:43:11 today ? Dec 06 10:43:29 Yes, a few minutes ago Dec 06 10:43:38 ahh good Dec 06 10:44:06 I did a fix and it looks ugly on the screen, so if it's updated I'll revert Dec 06 10:50:40 03laforge * r3594 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: Dec 06 10:50:40 sync with svn commit r3213 from 2.6.22.x patchset: Dec 06 10:50:40 * GTA02: work around a race condition between usb detection and pmu driver Dec 06 10:50:40 * GTA02: add (untested) wifi power-up code statically at boot time Dec 06 10:52:45 03laforge * r3595 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: Dec 06 10:52:45 merge commit 3214 from 2.6.22.5 patchset: Dec 06 10:52:45 fix GTA02 led definitions and resource names Dec 06 10:58:36 03laforge * r3596 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: merge commit 3233 from 2.6.22.x series: Make sure the display gets enabled again after coming out of the deep-standby state (Stefan Schmidt) Dec 06 11:01:34 * pavelm is now attempting to remove the transistor Dec 06 11:01:41 * SpeedEvil passes pavelm a hammer. Dec 06 11:01:42 ...openmoko is already open. Dec 06 11:05:07 03laforge * r3597 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (s3c2410_fb-line_length.patch series): merge commit 3234 from 2.6.22.x patchset: fix dynamic mode/resolution switching with s3c2410_fb (line_length calculation) (Stefan Schmidt) Dec 06 11:11:52 curious CM.... Dec 06 11:12:06 rolling back just give the sameissue as before Dec 06 11:21:35 ScaredyCat: fixing psplash now Dec 06 11:21:57 03laforge * r3598 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: merge commit 3236 from 2.6.22.x patchset: Add register init and extend state machine to support QVGA on the LCM. (Stefan Schmidt) Dec 06 11:22:11 03chris * r3599 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c src/sms-main.c): Dec 06 11:22:11 * src/sms-compose.c: (send_clicked_cb): Dec 06 11:22:11 * src/sms-main.c: (main): Dec 06 11:22:11 Sync with phone-kit changes Dec 06 11:24:42 03laforge * r3600 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Dec 06 11:24:42 merge commit 3237 from 2.6.22.x patchset: remove double register settings. Not Dec 06 11:24:42 listed in the data-sheet and it works fine without them. Looks like a Dec 06 11:24:42 copy-and-paste error. (Stefan Schmidt) Dec 06 11:27:04 03laforge * r3601 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: merging commit 3238 from 2.6.22.x patchset: Trivial whitespace before tab cleanup. (Stefan Schmidt) Dec 06 11:33:53 If I wanted to *measure* power consumption, I'd have to get a multimeter against the battery terminals while the machine was running, right? Dec 06 11:34:05 It's been about 15 years since I last used a multimeter ;-) Dec 06 11:34:09 pretty much Dec 06 11:34:23 tonyg: I don't suppose you've got any copper tape? Dec 06 11:34:28 ok, that's much less scary than the idea of having to get a dev board or anything Dec 06 11:34:54 copper tape? no. you're imagining squishing some between the pins and the pads on the battery to make a wee extension for easy clippability? Dec 06 11:35:04 basically Dec 06 11:35:07 good idea Dec 06 11:35:19 you take a 4mm wide strip of paper 40mm long Dec 06 11:35:33 60*2mm of copper tape Dec 06 11:35:43 what kind of information does neo provide through acpi? Dec 06 11:35:48 put the copper tape down the paper - wrapped round both sides Dec 06 11:36:18 cut the tape at the end. Solder two wires to the end of the copper, and attach to a meter. Dec 06 11:36:26 none through acpi Dec 06 11:36:26 cool Dec 06 11:36:38 hmm Dec 06 11:36:43 ta XorA Dec 06 11:37:34 I'm unsure if with modern kernels you can read the battery current when off charge - you diddn't used to be able to. Dec 06 11:37:58 anyway - the current reading is _horribly_ noisy. Dec 06 11:38:02 guaqua: acpi is x86(-64) only Dec 06 11:38:02 mm..does it provide the charge percentage or something some way? Dec 06 11:38:07 I left my gta01 running overnight. at 6.5h, `apm` reported 55-65% remaining. At 8h, the battery was too flat to switch on. Dec 06 11:38:20 tonyg: I've got a patch for that basically. Dec 06 11:38:24 hrw: thanks :) Dec 06 11:38:24 gsm on, backlight off Dec 06 11:38:30 It assumes it's linear from 2800 to 4200 Dec 06 11:38:32 it's not Dec 06 11:38:39 aha Dec 06 11:38:45 good :-) Dec 06 11:38:53 it's approximately linear between 3600 and 4200 - 5% and 90% Dec 06 11:38:54 is that a patch to apm, or to the kernel? Dec 06 11:39:00 it's a patch to the kernel Dec 06 11:39:05 okay Dec 06 11:39:09 basically Dec 06 11:39:18 tonyg: It looks more like this: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/battvolt2.png Dec 06 11:39:21 at the moment, you can get a good idea by assuming that 50% = 0 Dec 06 11:39:30 :) Dec 06 11:39:41 CM, nice graph :) Dec 06 11:40:01 so SpeedEvil, is your patch headed for the svn repo? Dec 06 11:40:07 Not mine, josch made it :) Dec 06 11:40:46 Well, 50% => 0%... good to know. Dec 06 11:40:56 tonyg: eventually yes - I'm having annoying problems related to having backed it up, and not having enough cash to get a hard drive to get a build environment up and running. Dec 06 11:40:58 So I got 6.5 hours out of the machine. Not bad, considering ;-) Dec 06 11:41:05 well, the shutdown voltage might actually be lowered further Dec 06 11:41:11 It should be up this week Dec 06 11:41:15 great Dec 06 11:41:17 the current shutdown voltage is fairly high as a safeguard Dec 06 11:41:23 LaF0rge: not really Dec 06 11:41:29 LaF0rge: you get seconds at most Dec 06 11:41:40 LaF0rge: the slope at that point is _really_ steep Dec 06 11:42:01 what's the X axis on the chart CM just posted? Dec 06 11:42:09 mh. i hd somebody inside FIC lecture me about li-ion discharge curves and between 3.3 and 2.8 there still is a lot of energy, IIRC Dec 06 11:42:10 seconds probably Dec 06 11:42:14 the curve sure *looks* pretty steep at the end :) Dec 06 11:42:21 but if you have measurements with our battery, then that's better obviously Dec 06 11:42:28 LaF0rge: it's about 5% typically Dec 06 11:42:33 or 10% at max Dec 06 11:42:44 but it's not a big number Dec 06 11:43:07 i thought 10% or a bit more is what they claimed, yes Dec 06 11:43:07 hey LaF0rge: do you think they will get GTA02 out the door this year? Dec 06 11:43:27 gambler: I don't comment on this, particulraly now that I don't know what's going on Dec 06 11:43:33 The battery is roughly 4.4Wh, right? divide 6.5h giving 680 mW :-( Dec 06 11:43:57 what are the practical problems preventing software control of the CPU clock? Dec 06 11:44:05 is there a kernel i/f to it already? Dec 06 11:44:28 tonyg: the PLL switching is fairly slow, i.e. a frequency change is quite expensive Dec 06 11:44:34 LaF0rge, meh....I wish they would give some more information. Dec 06 11:44:37 thus you can't react too fast in 'ondemand' cases Dec 06 11:44:47 tonyg: s3c2410 doesn't have cpufreq support yet Dec 06 11:44:54 there's a bugzilla bug about this in bugzilla.openmko.org Dec 06 11:45:14 LaF0rge, ok. So... you can't do it yet, and if you could, it wouldn't be any good anyway? ;-) Dec 06 11:45:21 How slow is slow? Dec 06 11:45:26 I think it's worthwhile Dec 06 11:45:34 tonyg: read the s3c2410 docs, I don't remember Dec 06 11:45:41 http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Polymer/Lithium_polymer_tech.html Dec 06 11:45:45 ok, I haven't looked at those yet. I'll take a look Dec 06 11:45:47 ha some representative graphs Dec 06 11:45:50 has Dec 06 11:46:02 it should be tried. the problem is that all other clocks are derived from the same pll, i.e. it is likely to be very difficult to handle this properly in all drivers Dec 06 11:46:25 audio and usb are a different pll though Dec 06 11:46:44 sounds like a fairly arcane piece of the system to be messing with Dec 06 11:47:06 so because many clocks share the same pll, it might happen that varying the cpu clock messes up say the gsm chip or the lcd driver? Dec 06 11:47:31 (incidentally, are the s3c2410 docs linked from the wiki?) Dec 06 11:47:36 gsm is independent Dec 06 11:47:50 yes, the pdf was linked in the wiki when i first created the respective pages Dec 06 11:48:00 but the lcd on gta01 definitely will be affected Dec 06 11:48:25 i thought ben dooks (fluffs) had some ideas on how to implement this but never got around Dec 06 11:48:35 you can - from memory - set the CPU divider completely seperately to the LCD and USB/... clocks Dec 06 11:48:37 is the lcd brightness acessible through linux? Dec 06 11:48:44 would it be enough to switch off the backlight before messing with the cpu freq? Dec 06 11:48:49 the USB PLL is completely seperated Dec 06 11:48:52 or would the lcd get Horribly Confused? Dec 06 11:48:55 audio doesnt care about the frequency it is fed Dec 06 11:49:13 xora: audio shares clock with usb pll and is independent. Dec 06 11:49:37 LaF0rge: still audio driver doesnt care as long as the codec pll can match Dec 06 11:49:38 xora: what about the various asoc resume patches that are still needed on top of linux-2.6 git? Dec 06 11:49:53 From memory - some brief looks at it indicated that the PLL could slew quite fast indeed Dec 06 11:49:59 LaF0rge: nothing has got to mainline yet AFAIK Dec 06 11:50:17 wow Dec 06 11:50:34 xora: yes, I'm more asking whether those fixes are still applicable and why they aren't mainline yet, tiven that they are around since july 1st or so ;) Dec 06 11:51:01 gah. the wiki isn't responding Dec 06 11:51:06 LaF0rge: they were pushed a couple of weeks ago to alsa-kernel Dec 06 11:51:11 tonyg: it seems off-and-on. Dec 06 11:51:46 xora: ok. i'm talking about http://svn.openmoko.org/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/asoc-core-suspend_resume.patch and http://svn.openmoko.org/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/asoc-s3c24xx-iis-suspend_resume.patch Dec 06 11:52:07 LaF0rge: yes, both of those are on the way to mainline Dec 06 11:52:17 LaF0rge: broonie at Wolfson handles them now Dec 06 11:52:31 ok. good. then I don't have to worry about these Dec 06 11:52:32 LaF0rge: I noticed that the modem wakes the neo from suspend-RAM with the stock november image. Dec 06 11:52:39 which is nice. Dec 06 11:52:56 the serial is in a confused state though) Dec 06 11:53:12 at some point i've hacked some code into mplayer that changed system frequency depending on the complexity of the frames to be decoded Dec 06 11:53:15 worked quite nicely Dec 06 11:53:29 btw: 2.6.24.x patchset is booting quite fine, haven't tested all drivers yet, obviously Dec 06 11:53:57 (this was not on the neo, btw) Dec 06 11:54:15 gi-el: was it on a device with the same CPU?> Dec 06 11:54:50 SpeedEvil: no, it was on some philips cpu :) Dec 06 11:55:39 SpeedEvil: but the concept might be applicable, there are a number of situations where you can predict your workload quite nicely so you can switch frequency in time with demand, although you have a relatively slow PLL switching time Dec 06 11:55:54 and you may not care much about the PLL Dec 06 11:56:01 if you can just change the output divider Dec 06 11:56:16 SpeedEvil: maybe even something for the neo daemon or some other component that has more or less a system overview Dec 06 11:56:18 which gets a fair chunk of the benefits Dec 06 11:56:36 LaF0rge: shit there is a patch missing from 2.6.22 recipe Dec 06 11:56:44 CM, you forgot to mention: my battvolt-graph you showed was not from the original FIC battery! but imho it doesnt matter very much - it looks similar with the original battery Dec 06 11:56:49 ideally, you want each application and component to register its "real time" properties and wishes with some overseeing daemon that handles the frequency Dec 06 11:57:02 josch: it's all one chemistry - pretty much Dec 06 11:57:44 SpeedEvil, right but my battery had twice the capacity so there might be differences in discharge rate etc.. Dec 06 11:58:08 josch: once you're at 3V, you've got under a percent of enrergy left. Dec 06 11:58:22 it's discharge rate that's more important in general. Dec 06 11:58:54 In practice - in a 'real' phone - we probably want to reserve a bit. Dec 06 11:58:56 SpeedEvil, you had the modem wake from "mem">/sys/power/state? exactly which image are you using? Dec 06 11:59:09 tonyg: the 'november' one from the wiki Dec 06 11:59:12 SpeedEvil, I completely agree Dec 06 12:00:12 buildhost.openmoko.org is refusing connections Dec 06 12:00:13 LaF0rge: packages/linux/linux-openmoko/s3c24xx-pcm-suspend.patch is also needed Dec 06 12:00:22 tonyg: downloads.openmoko.org? Dec 06 12:00:34 heh :) thanks LaF0rge Dec 06 12:00:49 xora: seems like i forgot that Dec 06 12:01:06 LaF0rge: no, I forgot to include it in recipe I pushed, so you woudlnt have seen it Dec 06 12:01:08 I would post a link to the one I downloaded. Dec 06 12:01:13 * SpeedEvil pokes the wiki. Dec 06 12:01:18 http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/ Dec 06 12:01:21 ? Dec 06 12:01:52 I'll grab it this evening. Dec 06 12:02:05 It's newer than the buildhost one I've been running with (by about a week) Dec 06 12:03:29 tonyg: downlodas.openmoko.org is just a rsync mirror of buildhost Dec 06 12:03:53 i've been asking for > 6 months that this url should be used in the feeds and all official URL's but nobody wanted to listen :/ Dec 06 12:04:03 the kernel is Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Sat Dec 1 03:40:58 CET 2007 armv4tl unknown Dec 06 12:04:21 I don't know what the original filename is - I seem to have lost them Dec 06 12:04:29 Mine's a nov 16 kernel. I'll update. Dec 06 12:04:43 With the nov16 kernel, GSM activity didn't wake the machine. Dec 06 12:04:59 It wakes it - but the modem comes back screwed. Dec 06 12:05:05 and when I pushed AUX, the machine woke, but the gsm modem was as you say screwed :) Dec 06 12:05:23 it'll be that darned console again Dec 06 12:05:33 chatting with the modem off on its own Dec 06 12:05:40 hi there. Dec 06 12:09:30 hi there Dec 06 12:19:33 Is roh around? Dec 06 12:19:49 Speed: Sorry, I lost connection yesterday. Did incoming call wake the modem? Dec 06 12:21:34 (Sorry, running away) Dec 06 12:25:27 yes Dec 06 12:25:44 but not with the modem in a usable state Dec 06 12:27:02 03chris * r3602 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Dec 06 12:27:02 * configure.ac: Dec 06 12:27:02 * src/Makefile.am: Dec 06 12:27:02 * src/today-main.c: (set_window_title), (is_active_notify), Dec 06 12:27:02 (provider_changed_cb), (main): Dec 06 12:27:02 * src/today.h: Dec 06 12:27:04 Use phone-kit to display network name (bug #367) Dec 06 12:27:47 hi stefan Dec 06 12:28:27 hi LaF0rge Dec 06 12:28:53 LaF0rge: While you are on the 2.6.24 merge. Can you also apply the resume fix for the LCM from openmoko-kernel? Dec 06 12:29:04 pavelm_lunch: I think roh is busy moving, haven't seen him for one or two days Dec 06 12:29:10 stefan: currently listening to lennarts pulseaudio talk here Dec 06 12:29:18 stefan: which fix? Dec 06 12:29:36 stefan: I'm currently fixing kdrive on 2.6.24 on gta01 Dec 06 12:29:48 LaF0rge: I think im going blind Dec 06 12:30:01 xora: ? Dec 06 12:30:03 LaF0rge: LCm resumes into vga even if it is qvga on suspend. Let me search the url. Dec 06 12:30:31 LaF0rge: that patch is in the linux-openmoko .bb, Ive read it like 50 times in last few minutes and only managed to read it right the 50th time Dec 06 12:31:09 LaF0rge: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2007-November/000312.html Dec 06 12:31:11 xora: which particular one? Dec 06 12:31:30 s3c24xx-pcm-suspend.patch Dec 06 12:31:42 stefan: interesting, that patch is not in my folder of that list Dec 06 12:32:09 LaF0rge: grr, so now I know why you never applied it. Dec 06 12:32:13 xora: i guess i've only read it once Dec 06 12:32:21 LaF0rge: Should I resend to you? Dec 06 12:33:17 stefan: yes, that makes it easiser than having to manually re-type it Dec 06 12:33:41 LaF0rge: give me a minute Dec 06 12:36:48 LaF0rge: Sent to your gnumonks address now Dec 06 12:36:56 thanks Dec 06 12:37:17 aha Dec 06 12:37:23 i just saw an angström logo Dec 06 12:37:55 LaF0rge: How is india? The photos I have seen from James show you smiling. So I presume you like it. :) Dec 06 12:38:13 stefan: well, i'm not that enthusiastic currently being on travel again Dec 06 12:38:23 and as you can see i'm mostly using my time to get work done anyway Dec 06 12:39:26 LaF0rge: But getting work done while hanging out with some old fellows makes traveling easier, right? :) Dec 06 12:39:52 well, the hanging out is done while not working. and no, i would still have preferred to stay home Dec 06 12:40:18 LaF0rge: OK, I stop this here. :) Dec 06 12:44:11 op gta01 Dec 06 12:47:44 stefan: will apply shortly Dec 06 12:50:10 LaF0rge: thanks Dec 06 12:55:13 transistor removed -- and moko still boots -- good. Dec 06 12:55:14 bye bye Dec 06 13:02:47 LaF0rge: i was afraid i would have to answer that question (which patches) :p i haven't kept a list but i remember there was a couple of them Dec 06 13:03:07 i see a couple got applied though Dec 06 13:03:55 for u-boot there's a patch to make gsm passthrough kindof-work and it's the only local patch i think Dec 06 13:07:58 03laforge * r3603 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-core.patch: Dec 06 13:07:58 GTA01: Dec 06 13:07:58 * don't mark s3c2410_displays as __initdata since the driver needs it at fbset time Dec 06 13:07:58 * use correct millimeter values for physical height and width of display Dec 06 13:07:58 * fix switched front/backporch understanding of myself ;) Dec 06 13:07:58 * add 32bpp mode at full-vga Dec 06 13:09:54 03laforge * r3604 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Dec 06 13:09:54 jbt6k74: Resume into right mode Dec 06 13:09:54 This patch fixes the resume behaviour. The driver always resumes into Dec 06 13:09:54 VGA mode. This was fine before adding QVGA mode, but it breaks now. Dec 06 13:09:54 This patch seaves the mode during suspend and resmues into the saved Dec 06 13:09:54 mode. Dec 06 13:09:57 Signed-off-by: Stefan Schmidt Dec 06 13:10:25 ok, I'm offline for a while now Dec 06 13:10:32 wave. Dec 06 13:10:37 bye LaF0rge Dec 06 13:10:40 sameo: how is the ar6001 driver coming? Dec 06 13:21:36 * balrog-kun wishes he had some time for travelling Dec 06 13:22:45 anyone know how to get sameo's attention? Dec 06 13:24:22 ~despise monotone Dec 06 13:24:29 perhaps using some "key word" Dec 06 13:24:41 like "pizza" but i'm not sure if it works for sameo Dec 06 13:25:10 guess I should have asked him if he had any key words :) Dec 06 13:44:34 hey Pitbullpc ...I was having lunch :-) Dec 06 13:49:03 np, i just had breakfast :) Dec 06 13:50:39 sameo: so how are things with the ar6001? Dec 06 13:51:18 Pitbullpc: not bad. I can associate, scan, and do all the regular TCP/IP stuff. Dec 06 13:52:37 sameo: sounds like you haven't working as it was intended Dec 06 13:52:45 Pitbullpc: I'm having an IO issue right now that forces me to add a 20 us delay with each interrupt. Throughput doesn't really like it.. Dec 06 13:52:59 Pitbullpc: what do you mean ? Dec 06 13:53:29 sameo: oops, sorry...typo haven't ---> have Dec 06 13:53:54 Pitbullpc: ha, ok :-) Yes, although this IO stuff is getting on my nerve... Dec 06 13:54:16 sameo: is it all io transactions? Dec 06 13:54:30 http://origin.arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071204-mpaas-university-toolkit-hit-with-dmca-takedown-notice-after-gpl-violation.html lol? Dec 06 13:55:14 sameo: BTW, I did verify that there is a seperate driver for each firmware (1.1 and 1.3) and they are significantly different. Dec 06 13:55:29 Pitbullpc: well, I hit this issue usually after several Mbytes of transaction, when an SDIO CMD is not sent at all, and we're stuck there. Dec 06 13:55:46 sameo: also, a note on the 1.1 firmware/driver: as told to me, the ability to change the transmit power is either broken or disabled Dec 06 13:55:51 Pitbullpc: yeah, the WMI API is at least different and not backward compatible. Dec 06 13:56:04 Pitbullpc: yep, I've been told that as well. Dec 06 13:56:19 Pitbullpc: but I think there won't be any 1.3 GPL driver from Atheros. Dec 06 13:56:38 * sameo wonders how Pitbullpc got the 1.3 driver ;-) Dec 06 13:57:17 sameo: licensing and NDA :) Dec 06 13:58:16 Pitbullpc: yep...have you done some progresses with your HW design so far ? Dec 06 13:58:24 sameo: may I ask why you think that they won't make 1.3 GPL eventually? Dec 06 13:58:46 rwhitby: i managed to compile module-init-tools-cross on mandriva Dec 06 13:59:32 maybe you don't remember, i asked a couple of times about not being able to link agains glibc Dec 06 13:59:34 sameo: our boards are being respun to support the compact flash interface of the AR6001 Dec 06 14:00:05 cosmin: what was the problem? Dec 06 14:00:31 rwhitby: i had to install the glibc-static-devel package Dec 06 14:00:32 sameo: the next version will support SDIO, CF, and Local Bus by changing a config register in our CPLD Dec 06 14:00:34 Pitbullpc: sounds good. If you really want throughput then it's better than SDIO I guess. Dec 06 14:00:59 Pitbullpc: ok, some bootloader changes only then. Dec 06 14:01:28 i read this on the openembedded's site, thanks for pointing me to them Dec 06 14:01:59 yeah, the CPLD will control the boot strapping of the modes and routing to the respective interface Dec 06 14:03:00 sameo: our issue right now is that we are fighting with the PCMCIA/CF interface from the processor (iMX31 Dec 06 14:03:43 Pitbullpc: it's not working fine ? Dec 06 14:04:21 sameo: are you familiar with that chip? they have two eval kits out, a LogicPD board (iMX31 Lite kit) and a Freescale board (iMX31ADS) Dec 06 14:04:54 sameo: neither board has it working as shipped Dec 06 14:05:15 Pitbullpc: yeah, we made poky support the imx31 lite kit recently. I remeber having issues with the CF interface though. Dec 06 14:06:23 sameo: on some revs there are hardware issues as well as software. you can get some info on the logicpd forums Dec 06 14:07:23 Pitbullpc: yeah, I browsed those forums and they were saying that the latest lite kit revisions should have the CF interface fixed. Dec 06 14:07:50 Pitbullpc: but we didn't investigate too much, as we didn't really need this interface. Dec 06 14:07:52 sameo: there are some timings messed up somewhere too that we are trying narrow down. anyway, we have to get that interface going before we can start looking to integrating a driver Dec 06 14:08:06 hello everyone. Dec 06 14:08:41 i got a treo650. i wanna install openmoko on my phone. is there any binary that i can download from web site ? thank you very much for the guidance. Dec 06 14:09:01 sameo: ideally, we wanted to use the AR6001 in a pure Local Bus mode/interface. however, no one on the planet has actually done this to date. so it was considered too high risk Dec 06 14:09:53 Pitbullpc: I agree with that, definitely :-) Dec 06 14:10:45 sameo: Card Access does have a customer though, who is willing go for it. Card Access will be doing the design/develpment in a couple months. Dec 06 14:11:15 Pitbullpc: but are you working on a commercial product ? Dec 06 14:13:22 sameo: our product is a prototype/"proof of concept" Dec 06 14:13:51 Pitbullpc: ok, so you can afford to wait for CardAccess design ? Dec 06 14:14:32 sameo: hell no, waiting 2 months would cost me $2 million Dec 06 14:14:41 Pitbullpc: oops... Dec 06 14:15:58 saemo: the sad thing is, that at the rate we are getting things together, Card Access might have it working by the time we field the demo Dec 06 14:16:01 biglaughing: Don't think there's any version of openmoko for that phone yet, but I hope I'm proved wrong. ;) Dec 06 14:17:58 bobofdoom had gsmd and dialer and some other parts running on the Treo650 Dec 06 14:18:16 sameo: we will have a calibration station set up mid january. by then, we should have the CF interface debugged and the driver integrated into our build Dec 06 14:18:40 Pitbullpc: but you get your module straight from Atheros ? Dec 06 14:18:55 Pitbullpc: can't you get them to calibrate it for you ? Dec 06 14:18:55 sameo: by end of Jan. we should be where you are, except with the CF interface Dec 06 14:19:09 balrog-kun: Ah, cool Dec 06 14:19:49 sameo: our chips are drop shipped from Atheros, but an updated 1.3 driver will be from Card Access Dec 06 14:20:38 sameo: the 1.3 driver from atheros is based on Fedora Core 3 (2.6.9 kernel). Card Access has updated it to 2.6.22 Dec 06 14:23:10 sameo: the kicker is that the entire driver is going to have to be rewritten for a different OS....I know, the next ? is why.....well, it's complicated ;-) Dec 06 14:23:35 Pitbullpc: no, the next question is : which OS ? Dec 06 14:23:55 ehrm, ipkg fails when updating, wtf? Dec 06 14:24:05 sameo: Green Hills Integrity Dec 06 14:24:11 is there something up with the OM servers? Dec 06 14:26:39 sameo: oh, and no Atheros can't calibrate them before they are shipped. The calibration has to be done in the final design to compensate for losses from the RF chain. Dec 06 14:27:19 Pitbullpc: oh, yeah, that's right, you have your own RF chain, obviously Dec 06 14:28:48 sameo: what processor is the GTA using Dec 06 14:29:01 Pitbullpc: s3c24xx from Samsung Dec 06 14:30:55 sameo: is that an ARM11? Dec 06 14:31:43 Pitbullpc: no, ARM9tdmi Dec 06 14:31:58 ScaredyCat: ping Dec 06 14:33:49 xcasex: pong Dec 06 14:34:15 ScaredyCat: do you have the faintest about whats going on with the OM ipkg repos? Dec 06 14:34:19 sameo: have you seen the Eye-fi card? Dec 06 14:34:32 official om ones or mine ? Dec 06 14:35:17 Pitbullpc: no...just browsing their web page right now. Is it an ar6k chip in that stuff ? Dec 06 14:35:35 sameo: yep. AR6001 Dec 06 14:36:06 Pitbullpc: sweet...do you know about some european shops that would sell it ? Dec 06 14:36:27 sameo: unfortunately, no Dec 06 14:36:32 ScaredyCat: official ones Dec 06 14:36:57 afaik they have some connectivity issues.... Dec 06 14:37:17 .. I get "Unable to connect to remote host (88.198.84.234): No route to host" here Dec 06 14:37:31 i get that.. sometimes Dec 06 14:37:48 you should probably use a real repo not that crappy official one :P Dec 06 14:37:58 ~blame XorA Dec 06 14:37:59 * apt blames XorA (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Dec 06 14:38:10 ScaredyCat: what's a good repo then? Dec 06 14:38:12 whats I dont now? Dec 06 14:38:27 ^^^ in English please ;) Dec 06 14:38:36 xcasex: mine :D Dec 06 14:38:44 s/dont/done/ Dec 06 14:38:45 XorA meant: whats I done now? Dec 06 14:38:53 ^^^ in English please ;) Dec 06 14:38:54 ScaredyCat: i'm using them too ;D Dec 06 14:39:06 what is it that I has done Dec 06 14:39:16 xcasex: :) Dec 06 14:39:40 XorA: still problems with connections to taiwan ? Dec 06 14:39:55 I thought there was a european server... Dec 06 14:40:01 is that b0rked too ? Dec 06 14:40:31 hardware failure I think Dec 06 14:40:36 :/ Dec 06 14:40:40 sameo: i will inquire about your IO delay and see if I can come up with anything. are there any other issues? Dec 06 14:40:44 sys admin is working on it Dec 06 14:41:19 again? Dec 06 14:41:24 Pitbullpc: oh, thanks a lot. I think it comes from my SDIO controller, but it's probably worth asking. Thats about it for now. Dec 06 14:41:29 you need to buy better hardware :) Dec 06 14:44:36 sameo: i will check in monday with whatever I have. catch you later. Dec 06 14:45:50 sameo: oh, i just froogle searched the eye-fi card $98 at WalMart, what a country :) Dec 06 14:47:02 sameo: If you can't get your hands on one, I could ship it from here. Do you work in the main head quarters? Dec 06 14:50:27 Pitbullpc: no, I work from home, in France. Do you think you could ship one of those cards ? Dec 06 14:52:20 sameo: yeah, just need an address Dec 06 14:53:05 sameo: send to mike at pitbullpc dot com Dec 06 14:53:29 Pitbullpc: nice, thanks a lot :-D Dec 06 14:55:25 ScaredyCat: pdf support is via which efl app? Dec 06 14:56:29 epdf Dec 06 14:56:46 * ScaredyCat pats XorA on the back Dec 06 14:56:52 psplash - Yay! Dec 06 14:57:02 Pitbullpc: email sent, thanks again ! Dec 06 14:57:09 ScaredyCat: even looks the same :-) Dec 06 14:57:18 roflmao Dec 06 15:03:00 Wow, ambitious project: http://openaerialmap.org/ Dec 06 15:04:46 :D Dec 06 15:06:40 XorA: hey there ... Dec 06 15:06:52 XorA: can I get you to apply the patch in http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3248 Dec 06 15:06:52 * XorA hides in fear Dec 06 15:07:01 It's necessary to get agg to compile and build ipkgs. Dec 06 15:07:18 sameo: you may need to resend. I forgot that deleted that account a while ago, good thing i checked Dec 06 15:07:40 sameo: i recreated the account, so it should work now Dec 06 15:07:43 It may not be the only thing wrong, but at least it fixes something wrong. Dec 06 15:07:58 nelson: according to mickeyl its applied Dec 06 15:08:37 Pitbullpc: ok, np, resent Dec 06 15:08:38 Ahhh, okay, sorry, I hadn't loaded it today. Dec 06 15:12:49 sameo: you have an "at openedhand" email address right? Dec 06 15:13:04 Pitbullpc: yep Dec 06 15:13:26 sameo: i will send you email if the address doesn't show up or when I have shipped it Dec 06 15:14:18 Pitbullpc: cool, please let me know how I'll pay it to you.. Dec 06 15:14:23 sameo: i have to get work before I am missed and the world as they know it comes to an end :) Dec 06 15:14:24 I have a few questions about openmoko if I may... (note, I'm no developer or coder) Dec 06 15:14:43 sameo: i think we could do PayPal, that might be easy enough Dec 06 15:15:08 sameo: details will be in email Dec 06 15:15:09 Pitbullpc: cool, thanks. Dec 06 15:16:06 comparing OpenMoko to Win Mobile and Palm OS, how diferent would it look and "feel"? Dec 06 15:18:41 hicks Dec 06 15:19:37 VladimirBG: what doe you mean by "feel"? Dec 06 15:20:45 * hhf423 yawns Dec 06 15:25:28 Hello there Dec 06 15:29:53 glargh Dec 06 15:30:01 where does ipkg store the packages it downloads? Dec 06 15:30:29 VladimirBG: Palm OS will always feel much faster and perhaps simpler and uglier if running on the same machine Dec 06 15:32:49 re all Dec 06 15:33:22 LaF0rge: salut Dec 06 15:37:30 xcasex: /tmp/ipkg-/ Dec 06 15:37:31 balrog-kun, how come an out-dated OS like Palm can be faster than a Linux optimezed for a mobile device? Dec 06 15:37:55 optimized* Dec 06 15:38:06 isnt palm single threaded? Dec 06 15:43:23 anyone attempt to boot off of the sd card? Dec 06 15:43:54 xcasex: Boot or having the rootfs there? Dec 06 15:44:42 torpor and ScaredyCat are running with rootfs on the sd card :) Dec 06 15:45:45 CM: rootfs :D Dec 06 15:45:48 aha! Dec 06 15:46:02 ScaredyCat: muchacho, put it on the wiki ;) Dec 06 15:46:15 But you need an old uboot to handle that, ScaredyCat has it in his repo Dec 06 15:46:20 ugh Dec 06 15:49:06 servus Dec 06 15:58:22 Is there a bounty sistem for features in OpenMoko? Dec 06 15:58:31 How can one contributr? Dec 06 16:01:53 VladimirBG: http://wiki.openmoko.org/ Dec 06 16:51:34 Always nice with a long lunch.. ;) Dec 06 16:52:10 from my point of view it is time for dinner already ;) Dec 06 16:52:13 hehe Dec 06 16:52:49 i have a friend who's waiter in an italian restaurant. he didn't let me go earlier since I only come so rarely... Dec 06 16:53:16 any kernel hackers here had trouble with kzalloc not zeroing memory? Dec 06 16:53:17 Oh, sounds like a good time. Italian food is delicious Dec 06 16:53:24 yeah Dec 06 16:53:40 custom made tagliatelle with truffels Dec 06 16:53:58 and he want's to open his own restaurant Dec 06 16:54:09 i'm thinking whether to support him financially Dec 06 16:54:16 Oh, cool Dec 06 16:54:20 :) Dec 06 16:54:34 * CM ate an italian buffé on tuesday evening Dec 06 16:56:33 when I'm in the u-boot and the usb is connected, how fast is it charging? must I connect to the ttyACM0 in order to enable the 500mA charging? Dec 06 16:57:40 if the device enumerates on the host then it should be charging at 500ma Dec 06 16:58:55 maxpower is 500mA in the lsusb output Dec 06 16:59:36 03chris * r3608 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Dec 06 16:59:36 * src/today-main.c: (set_time_idle), (clock_clicked_cb), Dec 06 16:59:36 (today_create_home_page), (digital_clock_notify), Dec 06 16:59:36 (small_clock_notify), (main): Dec 06 16:59:36 * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_box_new): Dec 06 16:59:37 * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_populate_tasks): Dec 06 16:59:41 * src/today.h: Dec 06 17:00:30 bInterfaceClass 254 Application Specific Interface Dec 06 17:00:31 bInterfaceSubClass 1 Device Firmware Update Dec 06 17:00:31 bInterfaceProtocol 1 Dec 06 17:00:31 iInterface 7 USB Device Firmware Upgrade Dec 06 17:00:31 ** UNRECOGNIZED: 09 21 07 00 ff 00 10 00 01 Dec 06 17:00:33 is this normal? Dec 06 17:01:12 mickeyl: hi. i heard that you hosted a prebuild sdk. will it be avaible again? Dec 06 17:01:47 Where is my GTA02 ? Dec 06 17:01:52 I demand a GTA02 Dec 06 17:02:00 or though shall die Dec 06 17:02:14 * XorA gives CVirus a +1 Dec 06 17:02:16 w00t w00t! Dec 06 17:02:20 jeffdameth: define sdk. what are you looking for? Dec 06 17:02:28 I have gnash-CVS with agg rendering working! Dec 06 17:02:44 How do I get that .bb file into OE? Dec 06 17:03:04 bugs.openembedded.org Dec 06 17:04:01 ahven: looks normal for DFU mode Dec 06 17:04:21 ok Dec 06 17:04:53 mickeyl: the oe build environment for openmoko. abraxa gave me this link http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ Dec 06 17:05:42 ah Dec 06 17:05:59 john lee released this for x86_64 a few days ago Dec 06 17:06:09 i dunno offhand where he put it Dec 06 17:06:17 he announced it on the mailing list Dec 06 17:07:10 hello, does anybody know when openmoko will get out of the developer stage? Dec 06 17:07:30 mickeyl: ok, i'll have a look. though i would need it for 32bit Dec 06 17:07:47 jeffdameth: john is working on that. if he doesn't release it by weekend, I'll build one Dec 06 17:08:37 mickeyl: it might be nice to have an ubuntu package of the sdk + emulator. so that one can easily try out developing and then buy a neo to have it running on a real device =) Dec 06 17:11:07 it's going to be a vmware image Dec 06 17:11:19 that should get you basically the same Dec 06 17:11:27 with included toolchain, evaluation environment, and IDE Dec 06 17:11:33 mickeyl: have you used ljp's greenphone SDK? Dec 06 17:11:46 Stephmw: 'used' would be too much, i have seen it. Dec 06 17:12:03 mickeyl: I'm keen on being able to avoid vmware for performance reasons Dec 06 17:12:17 vmware as a controller for a build farm... sure Dec 06 17:12:28 well, perhaps someone can convert it Dec 06 17:12:38 besides, the components will also be released individually Dec 06 17:12:48 mickeyl: oh. and be sure to purge root's history before shipping the image :D Dec 06 17:13:03 * Stephmw tickles ljp Dec 06 17:13:06 hehe Dec 06 17:16:13 ok, asking again, is it possible to control the level of the lcd brightness from the command line? Dec 06 17:17:28 sure Dec 06 17:17:33 it's a sysfs node Dec 06 17:17:43 sys/class/backlight/something-bl/brightness Dec 06 17:17:51 will be a dbus API soon next year Dec 06 17:24:47 and I have GSM connection :) Dec 06 17:24:59 though no sound coming in or going out when in call Dec 06 17:25:16 I think I aborted the call and the scripts got confused Dec 06 17:25:21 hi, any volunteers for trying out some python code, my neo has been separated from me and am dying to see if the code works... Dec 06 17:25:40 Sup3rkiddo: what does it so? (supposedly) Dec 06 17:26:50 ahven: its just a python binding for the gsmd stack...just added some stuff and want to see if it works on the device..sorta works on the host though Dec 06 17:27:09 I would give it a try :) Dec 06 17:28:29 ahven: thanks, lemme just put up the new ipk someplace, fyi the older one is here http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14 Dec 06 17:28:33 yay Dec 06 17:29:22 err Dec 06 17:29:34 lot of errors with nov. rootfs & ipkg update Dec 06 17:33:47 guys i asked this earlier "does anybody know when openmoko will get out of the developer stage?" any idea? Thanks in advance Dec 06 17:34:47 * Stephmw checks the temperature... not yet cooked Dec 06 17:35:17 So we have to wait more? Dec 06 17:35:21 uhm Dec 06 17:35:23 what do you expect? Dec 06 17:35:25 it's like Dec 06 17:35:28 when will KDE be finished? Dec 06 17:35:29 03chris * r3609 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: Update libtaku, fixes bug #981 Dec 06 17:36:03 please don't forget the openmoko smartphone stack is a community project, (albeit funded by OpenMoko Inc.). Dec 06 17:36:49 i can make a guess here but you will not like to hear it Dec 06 17:37:40 Ok lemme rephrase, i don't expact it to be an final product, since i know its an continous development phone...but when will it be every day usable? Dec 06 17:37:59 well that depends on what you epect Dec 06 17:38:01 expect, even Dec 06 17:38:12 i can't comment on the hardware Dec 06 17:38:17 and much of it is hardware Dec 06 17:38:21 software? Dec 06 17:38:24 _if_ the hardware works really godo Dec 06 17:38:25 good Dec 06 17:38:33 then it should be ready in about 3 to 6 months Dec 06 17:38:42 basic phone + PIM Dec 06 17:38:55 that's a conservative guess Dec 06 17:38:58 mickeyl: I hope thats the normal plutonian months we use :-) Dec 06 17:39:02 hehe Dec 06 17:39:03 yes Dec 06 17:39:08 no OpenMoko months this time ;) Dec 06 17:39:24 oh dear Dec 06 17:39:26 :) Dec 06 17:39:35 * Mononoke googles how quickly pluto turns around Dec 06 17:39:47 oh well thanks guys Dec 06 17:40:01 Mononoke: 11 years isn't it? Dec 06 17:40:12 mickeyl: I hope you were talking about GTA03 not GTA02 :S Dec 06 17:40:26 well Dec 06 17:40:44 Mononoke: ah, no... 248.09 yr Dec 06 17:40:47 what can i say. i have my doubts about gta02. it's still a developer board in a phone case, if you ask me privately Dec 06 17:40:52 Mononoke: we'll be well dead and buried Dec 06 17:40:55 but it's a good developer board Dec 06 17:41:06 and we should all buy lots of units Dec 06 17:41:26 still I think that GTA03 can come after my death Dec 06 17:41:38 but GTA02 could be released while I'm alive :P Dec 06 17:42:10 but nevermind delay doesn't matter it's quality what matters Dec 06 17:42:19 sure Dec 06 17:42:23 mass market needs a slick case Dec 06 17:42:26 and a matrix keypad Dec 06 17:42:34 or a really good and larger ts Dec 06 17:42:40 IMO Dec 06 17:42:54 (always wearing the FOSS hat, not speaking as OM.Inc.) Dec 06 17:42:59 or just mobile with boobs >.> Dec 06 17:43:11 haha, yeah Dec 06 17:43:13 does bearnaise-sauce contain a lot of sugar? Dec 06 17:43:15 Mononoke: two 'nipple' pointers? Dec 06 17:43:18 mickeyl: Time for mickeyl|foss? Dec 06 17:43:29 stefan_schmidt: good point Dec 06 17:43:54 Mononoke: there are kids in here Dec 06 17:44:04 ~fish Mononoke Dec 06 17:44:05 * apt slaps Mononoke around with a large trout Dec 06 17:44:08 since i don't get payed for my IRC appereance maybe i should blog about me being here being a private thing Dec 06 17:44:13 *shrug* Dec 06 17:44:45 by the way Dec 06 17:44:48 expedite finally builds again Dec 06 17:44:53 so we can do some nice benchmarks Dec 06 17:44:56 wrt. fb-directly Dec 06 17:44:59 and through X11 Dec 06 17:45:05 will do that on weekend Dec 06 17:45:08 Sup3rkiddo: how so, I guess that Openmoko doesn't have kids as target audience Dec 06 17:46:21 http://rapidshare.com/files/74734556/python-gsmd_0.01-r1_armv4t.ipk.html heres the link to the ipk in case someone is interested...sorry for hosting it on rapidshare though :/ Dec 06 17:46:35 * Sup3rkiddo is down on his knees for a few volunteers Dec 06 17:47:14 Sup3rkiddo: is that the alternate gsmd? Dec 06 17:47:15 I'm betting there are a fair number of 12yo's interested. The notion that any of the set that is interested has not been surfing 4chan/... Dec 06 17:47:58 folken: no not the alternate if you meant gsmd2,...its the upstream version Dec 06 17:49:03 mickeyl: is there a list anywhere of the phones that FIC makes? Dec 06 17:49:38 mickeyl: I mean - in principle, are there any other phones that OM might run on? Dec 06 17:49:42 you mean the feature phones? Dec 06 17:49:51 Even if not ideal for other reasons. Dec 06 17:50:04 openezx Dec 06 17:50:07 well Dec 06 17:50:08 ezx phones Dec 06 17:50:14 some htc Dec 06 17:50:15 palm tx Dec 06 17:50:24 hmm, the latter not being a phone Dec 06 17:50:26 iirc Dec 06 17:50:30 That FIC makes and owns the rights to I mean. Dec 06 17:50:34 ah Dec 06 17:50:38 GTA01, GTA02 Dec 06 17:50:44 nothing else from FIC currently Dec 06 17:50:47 k Dec 06 17:51:33 hopefully new models next year Dec 06 17:51:38 but doubtful given the 02 delay Dec 06 17:51:56 Sup3rkiddo: 86.110.226.21/python-gsmd_0.01-r1_armv4t.ipk Dec 06 17:52:19 Mononoke: ah thanks.... Dec 06 17:52:33 SpeedEvil: there is probably a very hairy certification issue associated with hacking a GSM phone it ways unintended by the manufacturer that obtain the GSM or regulatory certification. Dec 06 17:52:43 s/it/in/ Dec 06 17:52:43 Writchie meant: SpeedEvil: there is probably a very hairy certification issue associated winh hacking a GSM phone it ways unintended by the manufacturer that obtain the GSM or regulatory certification. Dec 06 17:53:01 Writchie: I was assuming a nominally seperate model sticker Dec 06 17:53:04 Sup3rkiddo: you should download it and check it's hash :S Dec 06 17:53:23 Writchie: and that it'd need a seperate FCC run Dec 06 17:53:28 Mononoke: yeah let me, Firefox 3 isnt bringing up the download box Dec 06 17:55:15 AFAIK: FCC issues only involve emission compliance - not functionality. GSM IIRC requires another certification process for compliance with mandatory GSM specs. Dec 06 17:55:27 ~hail zecke Dec 06 17:55:28 * apt bows down to zecke and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Dec 06 17:55:32 Sup3rkiddo: hey, I didn't remember you are from india Dec 06 17:55:32 how's india? Dec 06 17:55:50 Mononoke: oops, they don't Dec 06 17:55:54 Sup3rkiddo: it is sad you didn't make it. I have to catch up with nomind tomorrow. I had hoped he would be online Dec 06 17:55:55 :S Dec 06 17:55:59 mickeyl: fantastic Dec 06 17:56:05 zecke: hi, i couldnt make it to FOSS.in =( Dec 06 17:56:51 zecke: cool..how is stuff going on... Dec 06 17:57:12 if nomind comes around tell him I would really like to chat with him more during the next days :) Dec 06 17:57:14 hi zecke Dec 06 17:57:21 zecke: how is your cold Dec 06 17:57:23 ? Dec 06 17:57:39 Sup3rkiddo: everything is fine, I need to work now which means I will use the connection to the AP. So cya later :) Dec 06 17:57:51 Writchie: surely you mean the FCC requires GSM transmitters to? Dec 06 17:58:05 Writchie: as there is no seperate GSM regulation body Dec 06 17:58:49 zecke: bye, have fun Dec 06 17:59:30 SpeedEvil: the transmitters must comply with the emission requirements, max inband out of band power etc. There is FCC in US and R&TTE Directive in Europe. Dec 06 17:59:39 interesting...power management was set on "dim only, don't lock" Dec 06 17:59:42 but it did lock Dec 06 18:00:00 For network compatibility there is GCF certification since 2000. Dec 06 18:00:19 GCF IIRC is voluntary Dec 06 18:00:54 microwave oven must comply with emission requirements. Dec 06 18:01:02 doesn't have to properly cook food. Dec 06 18:03:17 SpeedEvil: there was a "type approval" process in GSM and I think it is still in effect. Dec 06 18:16:00 SpeedEvil: http://www.globalcertificationforum.org/Application/CMS/static/?page=home_public.htm Dec 06 18:16:14 It doesn't appear that FIC is a member. Dec 06 18:17:12 The requirements seem to be relatively minor but you do have to do things like a field trial and demonstrate making calls on every band you claim to support ;) Dec 06 18:18:05 it looks like the "type approval" process I remembered is largely gone - but it may depend on the country. Dec 06 18:25:44 Hehe.. There's nothing you can't run in emacs.. ^^ Dec 06 18:30:26 Hello, everyone Dec 06 18:30:48 ....so I removed (actually Erik removed) transistor from my openmoko, and it still works, good. Dec 06 18:41:32 ay, net over bluetooth works :) Dec 06 18:53:36 jeffdameth: Did you get the SDK yet? Dec 06 18:54:01 abraxa_: hello :) Dec 06 18:54:15 Heya ahven Dec 06 18:55:45 usb networking works, bluetooth networking works...networking through a regular mobile(gprs) perhaps? Dec 06 18:57:09 abraxa_: maybe you know, is it possible to change the lcd brightness on-the-fly? Dec 06 18:57:34 ahven: Just echo a value in there and see :) Dec 06 18:58:27 how close is this to actually being able to function as a phone? Dec 06 18:58:42 months away Dec 06 18:58:44 how much more does it require other then putting in a GSM card? Dec 06 18:58:51 from my point of view Dec 06 18:59:11 worked pretty out of the box for me, but the scripts need tweaking a little Dec 06 18:59:16 I don't mean a phone for everybody Dec 06 18:59:39 I made my first call today, entered my pin and connected Dec 06 18:59:41 if I put in a gsm card and turn it on, can I make a call.....get a call Dec 06 18:59:43 ? Dec 06 19:00:06 _should_ work without problems, but not guaranteed :) Dec 06 19:00:09 ahven: Yeah it is - e.g. echo 255 > /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness Dec 06 19:00:12 right Dec 06 19:00:40 abraxa_: you are using the latest rootfs/kernel, right? Dec 06 19:00:49 Pretty much, yeah Dec 06 19:00:59 yes Dec 06 19:01:13 I have had it for about 24 hours now and am just starting to read up on it Dec 06 19:01:17 is your lcd dimming only, when it is told? mine locks also, but it isn't supposed to Dec 06 19:02:51 ahven: How do you know it's not supposed to? Dec 06 19:03:02 abraxa_: hey. no, but mickey said that he put up a sdk soon if john doesnt do it first. i can wait. got enough other stuff to do atm :/ Dec 06 19:03:11 abraxa_: atleast that selection is selected from the power management Dec 06 19:03:51 jeffdameth: I'm asking because the 64-bit toolchain is at http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/ so you might wanna keep an eye on that location :) Dec 06 19:04:26 ahven: You have it set on "disabled"? Dec 06 19:05:27 abraxa_: when it is disabled, it doesn't lock, but doesn't dim so fast as "dim only, don't lock" Dec 06 19:05:50 abraxa_: oh yes. thanks. i guess that's the version mickey mentioned Dec 06 19:07:01 ahven: As of now it's all controlled by neod as far as I know - I'm afraid I'm not up-to-date with this area of development Dec 06 19:07:26 ok Dec 06 19:07:51 it worked with a little older rootfs/kernel, was curious :) Dec 06 19:31:16 hmm Dec 06 19:33:40 hi, is there anyone here who's used both a neo1973 and an iphone? Dec 06 19:33:57 how does the screen and responsiveness compare? Dec 06 19:34:21 i'm assuming that the neo is at a reasonable level of development to judge Dec 06 19:36:10 * OJW not used one, but the neo's screen is smaller and higher-resolution Dec 06 19:36:38 yeah - all i've seen so far are the "facts". No opinional or anything Dec 06 19:36:42 opinions* Dec 06 19:37:10 i've used both Dec 06 19:37:13 the iphone is far more polished Dec 06 19:37:21 i'd expect that Dec 06 19:37:22 neo feels like what it is: a slow developers phone Dec 06 19:37:28 but it is usable too Dec 06 19:37:40 but is it slow because it's not been developed enough yet? Dec 06 19:37:53 would the cpu advancements in the GTA02 help? Dec 06 19:40:18 at the moment, you can not compare the two devices Dec 06 19:40:29 ah ok :) Dec 06 19:40:36 the iphone is from apple. it is nothing less than spectacular- Dec 06 19:41:00 it is fast, it is polished, it is ready for use Dec 06 19:41:18 the neo works Dec 06 19:41:20 but its also one of the most closed phones ever Dec 06 19:41:24 hahaha Dec 06 19:41:27 it is not spectacular but it works Dec 06 19:41:28 I have a Neo Dec 06 19:41:39 you can not call that working Dec 06 19:41:49 and when the gta02 hits the scene it will definitely be beefy Dec 06 19:42:06 hhf423__: i don't know what image you are running but i'm running an image that lets me use the thing as a phone Dec 06 19:42:23 i was just wondering if on the official release date of the neo (not now), the neo would be pretty responsive, and scratch resistant Dec 06 19:42:24 ajbrun: the thing to keep in mind: this is a development stage project. its not ready yet. Dec 06 19:42:26 torpor: ah, and how long does your battery last? Dec 06 19:42:51 i'd say when the official release happens, it will defintiely be smooth and responsive Dec 06 19:43:00 the progress can be estimated, and so far it has been good Dec 06 19:43:10 thats why I said you can not compare them at the moment Dec 06 19:43:16 i'm hoping to get my hands on a GTA02 version when that's out anyway, so i'll just follow it as it develops Dec 06 19:43:27 thats the thing to do Dec 06 19:44:17 don't know what everyone's going to do with the GTA01's, as by the time the next version is out, theyd all be outdated (i know they bought them to develop on though) Dec 06 19:44:51 i'm gonna keep mine and use it as a phone of course Dec 06 19:45:00 i'll get a gta02 too though. Dec 06 19:46:00 the only reson i've waited is because doing that seems like a waste of money to me (i'm still on a nokia 3510i), and no one would want to buy it if i'd ebay it Dec 06 19:47:30 Personally I'm waiting until it's a reasonable phone for daily use (i.e. basic address book, sms and browsing/email). Dec 06 19:47:54 Nokia 6120 classic is nice for that :) Dec 06 19:48:24 i don't know how dev is going, but i'm guessing that by the time gta02 is out, it'll be fairly usable as a phone with some minor bugs Dec 06 19:48:36 It's not bad, but it doesn't have that unique edge :) Dec 06 19:48:42 I have a Motorola E6 now. Dec 06 19:49:07 the unique edge for me is the openess, which is why i want to get one earlyish and watch as it develops Dec 06 19:50:05 wait until there are some nice apps running on it and then it'll all sort of make sense Dec 06 19:50:08 Well.. to be honest, I tried that with a Zaurus SL5500, a Zaurus SL-C860 and a Siemens Simpad. Now, before I get anything, I want to see code, not promises :D Dec 06 19:50:10 right now whats happening is pretty plain vanilla. Dec 06 19:51:45 well, i can't remember the actual figure, but i'm sure i saw somewhere that a lot of people had brough GTA01. If all those are interested in the project, and a small proportion of those are actually developers, i can't see it failing Dec 06 19:52:57 That's what I thought when I bought the aforementioned devices :) Dec 06 19:53:17 what was supposed to be unique about those? Dec 06 19:54:01 Eh are you asking or are you being sarcastic? Dec 06 19:54:20 no - i really don't know Dec 06 19:54:35 never heard of em Dec 06 19:55:45 Oh -- well, the SL5500 was a Linux PDA with a slide QWERTY keyboard, the SL-C860 was a clamshell Linux PDA (in laptop form factor) with a 640x480 screen that could be rotated as well, the Simpad was a 800x600 tablet PDA. Dec 06 19:56:26 THey all worked to a certain extent, but never reached their full potential, IMO. Dec 06 19:57:12 i still think the neo will work. If only for the percieved similarities it has with the iPhone Dec 06 19:57:26 It's all about the software. Dec 06 19:58:00 Still, it will mainly appeal to geeks, I guess. Or we'd need more movement in the interface :) Dec 06 19:58:18 i know that, but people will see iphone features at a cheaper price, and with the news because the iphone being closed to developers, the openess of the neo should attract people too Dec 06 19:58:20 i dunno abut that Dec 06 19:58:28 i'm writing music apps for openmoko right now Dec 06 19:58:34 it's like the old days - windows was all about the graphics on the pc, linux was mainly text and lot of non-gui automation, if any :P Dec 06 19:58:34 the GUI is already better than the inside Dec 06 19:58:39 it'll appeal to normal people if there are enough geeks writing the apps Dec 06 19:58:53 the same thing, only in smaller proportions Dec 06 19:59:10 hhf423__ - what's "the inside"? Dec 06 19:59:11 hhf423__: what do you mean? Dec 06 19:59:22 ajbrun: like gsmd Dec 06 19:59:46 is that like gsm? Dec 06 20:00:04 lol - i'm quite new to phone tbh Dec 06 20:00:05 like powermanagement Dec 06 20:00:55 there is a browser on it, but there is no gui to configure gprs Dec 06 20:01:16 A configuration app is fairly trivial to write, though. Dec 06 20:01:25 I can imagine it's not a priority at this point. Dec 06 20:01:27 sure Dec 06 20:01:35 will take only half an hour Dec 06 20:01:38 Also, it wouldn't be a requirement for me to get one, as long as it's configurable. Dec 06 20:01:39 dead easy Dec 06 20:01:49 thats why its already done, right? Dec 06 20:01:54 It's just a bunch of buttons and text fields. Dec 06 20:02:02 that's why i like the idea of this so much though. If there's something that's missing on the iphone (or anything else), then you're screwed. Dec 06 20:02:29 That's true. Dec 06 20:02:32 the Neo is all about user features Dec 06 20:02:40 if the user wants it, the user writes it Dec 06 20:03:03 so if you want a stable phone with gsm working and powermanagement, why, just write it yourself Dec 06 20:03:13 i know the software side is fine - i'm just hoping the hardrware will be enough for what people want to use it for Dec 06 20:03:37 and if you have issues, you can always go to IRC and get told how easy it is Dec 06 20:03:50 hhf423__: there are a lot of people working on that right now. The fact that the hardware is available already is a service, no less. Dec 06 20:03:51 hhf423__: get settingsgui to configure gprs Dec 06 20:04:10 torpor: I know settingsgui, thanks Dec 06 20:04:13 This is a phone that's technically not even released yet. Dec 06 20:04:19 Try that with Nokia or Motorola. Dec 06 20:04:24 Put things in perspective. Dec 06 20:04:48 same old argument Dec 06 20:04:56 its not a phone, its a dev kit Dec 06 20:05:13 It's both. Dec 06 20:05:34 SuN: so how long do you have your Neo? Dec 06 20:05:59 I don't have a Neo, I told that 10 minutes ago. Dec 06 20:06:14 ah, then you don't know what you're talking about Dec 06 20:06:23 hhf423__: quit the attitude Dec 06 20:06:23 That's a bullshit argument. Dec 06 20:06:36 no worries, just buy one, become part of the club and enjoy the experience Dec 06 20:06:41 there is no reason to be an ass with someone you are having a discussion with Dec 06 20:06:47 * CM senses some bitterness Dec 06 20:06:54 calm down... Dec 06 20:06:59 I will, once I can use it as a phone, I can't afford to have it lying around. Dec 06 20:07:06 apt get beer Dec 06 20:07:06 * apt fetches beer Dec 06 20:07:13 its a developer phone righ tnow Dec 06 20:07:17 its not even announced Dec 06 20:07:24 If you had paid ANY attention to my Zaurus story, you'd understand. Dec 06 20:07:26 just chill on the vitriol about how tis project is workign Dec 06 20:07:29 thats what I am saying. Its a dev kit Dec 06 20:07:43 its not a 'same old argument\, its the truth Dec 06 20:07:47 A phone dev kit :S Dec 06 20:08:27 I brought the p800 dev kit when it came out. you could do phone calls and everything with the 0.9 software on it. no worries Dec 06 20:08:53 well the same goes for the neo Dec 06 20:09:14 Except the definition of a p800 dev kit is entirely different, since you can't touch the phone OS. Dec 06 20:09:16 anyone who says that this is at this stage something which can be used as a every day phone is on drugs Dec 06 20:09:21 some people are more "users" than "developers" Dec 06 20:09:26 shouldn't matter tbh Dec 06 20:09:38 hhf423__: well, no one implied that. Dec 06 20:09:54 we should be honest to the world. if we're not honest, we're just kidding ourself Dec 06 20:09:55 hhf423__: i'm using it to make calls daily .. i don't know what your problem is other than perhsaps you're not as bleeding edge as you think you are Dec 06 20:10:20 Who's dishonest? Dec 06 20:10:32 torpor: you never answered my question on how long your battery lasts Dec 06 20:10:44 i get about 4 hours out of it right now Dec 06 20:10:53 if i could charge mine when i wanted, it would probably be usalbe as phone, though definitely not as a mobile phone Dec 06 20:11:00 but - as i'm a developer - i leave it plugged in all day anyway Dec 06 20:11:30 yeah, hahaha, now lets make the distinction between "phone" and "mobile phone" and argue that! Dec 06 20:11:35 but since it charges randomly, i totally agree with hhf423__ Dec 06 20:11:46 hhf423__: lets not. lets just shut the hell up about it instead Dec 06 20:11:46 its a phone all right, just not mobile yet! Dec 06 20:12:02 torpor: nah, please - there's nothing on tv right now Dec 06 20:12:52 * hhf423__ is just happy that there is now a GPS driver Dec 06 20:13:02 if the charging worked then actually the software would be much more mature too cause developers could develop when they wanted Dec 06 20:13:13 I agree Dec 06 20:13:30 how come it's only 4 hours per battery charge? Dec 06 20:13:45 because there basically is no power management at the mo Dec 06 20:13:48 is that planned to get bigger with powermanagement? Dec 06 20:13:54 rgr Dec 06 20:13:56 sure is Dec 06 20:13:56 coz i run it without powermanagement so i have the best performance for my app Dec 06 20:14:26 i would have though power management would give better battery and better performance? Dec 06 20:14:35 no Dec 06 20:14:39 or maybe not actually Dec 06 20:14:48 powermanagement means running the cpu and other devices at a very low speed Dec 06 20:14:50 better performance = faster cpu = lower battery life Dec 06 20:14:54 i guess Dec 06 20:14:58 I hope power mngmt turns out well, I want to see hours and hours of battery when it's idle :P See I plan to use mine as a phone Dec 06 20:15:38 since it has a usb connection, i'll probably just plug it into every pc i use anyway Dec 06 20:15:39 hehehe Dec 06 20:16:08 i'm assuming there's nothing to stop bluetooth and usb to be used at the same time? Dec 06 20:16:14 not hardware limitation anyway? Dec 06 20:16:16 ajbrun: the trick is it runs (well, mine) below 4h when plugged in Dec 06 20:16:39 ajbrun: using it together nw :) Dec 06 20:16:41 now* Dec 06 20:16:48 woop Dec 06 20:17:29 i used bluetooth and usb together all the time. Dec 06 20:18:35 interesting Dec 06 20:18:40 root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Dec 06 20:18:40 ipkg: invalid magic Dec 06 20:18:49 anyone else tried to install that gps driver? Dec 06 20:19:01 i did last week when it was announced Dec 06 20:19:03 worked for me. Dec 06 20:19:12 not enough mana ;-) Dec 06 20:19:31 yup, seems so :) Dec 06 20:20:39 how does the gps work? Dec 06 20:20:44 is it free to use? Dec 06 20:20:57 binary driver :( Dec 06 20:21:07 i'm assuming it is? Needs no gprs connection etc? Dec 06 20:23:01 * * OM Bug 1101 has been created by werner(AT)openmoko.org Dec 06 20:23:02 * * ECC error recovery may be broken (GTA01) Dec 06 20:23:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1101 Dec 06 20:24:29 gps doesn't usually need gprs imho Dec 06 20:25:04 i think they are unrelated Dec 06 20:25:14 good - just thought i might have read something about it using agps which might have? Dec 06 20:25:23 noe Dec 06 20:25:26 something about signal strength behind a mountain? Dec 06 20:25:30 agps is a gps tool Dec 06 20:25:58 assisted gps, but assisted by what? Dec 06 20:25:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS Dec 06 20:26:17 the "assistance" comes in if you want a quick fix without knowing where the sats are already Dec 06 20:26:42 ah ok Dec 06 20:26:46 so it's a good thing :) Dec 06 20:27:07 argh. who here knows about AT+CMGL ? Dec 06 20:27:21 (or doesn't come in, at least I don't know if the current gllin for gta01 does assist) Dec 06 20:27:33 tonyg: what about it? Dec 06 20:27:45 I'm getting +CMS ERROR: 321 (invalid memory index) and I can't clear the error state Dec 06 20:27:56 it started happening after I sent a couple of SMSs with +CMGS Dec 06 20:28:06 +CMGD=0,3 doesn't help Dec 06 20:28:20 nor does +CMGD=0,4 Dec 06 20:28:22 tonyg: you get this error on AT+CMGL? Dec 06 20:28:25 yeah Dec 06 20:28:28 +CMGL="ALL" Dec 06 20:28:43 weird, does the SIM work ok in other phones? Dec 06 20:29:04 yep. Dec 06 20:29:10 and I've had +CMGL="ALL" work fine before Dec 06 20:29:16 It's something I did when sending... :-/ Dec 06 20:29:47 how about AT+CMGL=4 ? Dec 06 20:30:01 {{error,302,operation_not_allowed},"+CMS ERROR: 302",[]} Dec 06 20:30:23 I'm in text mode, not pdu mode btw Dec 06 20:30:28 have you tried the SIM in other modems after that started happening? Dec 06 20:30:32 not yet. Dec 06 20:30:39 i'd try it Dec 06 20:30:39 In fact, I haven't powercycled it yet. Dec 06 20:31:32 powercycling now Dec 06 20:31:36 i once player with the proprietary sms commands (with AT%CMG...) and one of them currupted a couple of messages in my inbox Dec 06 20:31:40 played Dec 06 20:32:13 single characters Dec 06 20:32:22 odd! Dec 06 20:32:37 if it's fixed after powercycling, I'll see if I can break it again with a similar sequence of operations... Dec 06 20:34:05 wow. shit. it's persistent. Dec 06 20:34:15 rebooting and taking the battery out hasn't helped Dec 06 20:34:19 very interesting. Dec 06 20:34:28 how old was the SIM? Dec 06 20:34:53 new. Dec 06 20:34:57 and cheap :) Dec 06 20:35:42 and sneding SMSs still works fine Dec 06 20:35:50 just +CMGL is borked Dec 06 20:37:03 hi all, do you know someone if there is a at command for checking status of barring incoming calls under roaming? Dec 06 20:37:20 because i can't receive any incoming call with my sim card, dialing, sending/receiving sms is working Dec 06 20:37:24 tonyg: AT+CPMS? should show you the SMS space stats on the SIM Dec 06 20:40:05 openmoko doesn't recodnize the end of the call? Dec 06 20:40:35 balrog-kun, {ok,"OK",["+CPMS: \"SM\",0,20,\"SM\",0,20,\"SM\",0,20"]} Dec 06 20:40:37 ahven: the gllin driver (the official version) also works here Dec 06 20:40:54 interesting...having trouble installing in the first place Dec 06 20:40:56 ahven: the end of the call thing is a known issue I believe Dec 06 20:41:00 tonyg: hmm, that would mean no messaged Dec 06 20:41:01 ah Dec 06 20:41:02 messages Dec 06 20:41:04 yep Dec 06 20:41:08 which is what I'm expecting Dec 06 20:41:09 ahven: are you sure you downloaded it correctly Dec 06 20:41:15 wget Dec 06 20:41:19 rmoravcik: AT+CLCK=xx,2 where xx is the facility, AI for Barr All Incoming Calls Dec 06 20:41:22 I've just used +CMGR and +CMGD to retrieve and delete a fresh arrival Dec 06 20:41:25 ahven: i think it dpeends on how old your snapshot is Dec 06 20:41:28 and CMGL is still giving me gyp Dec 06 20:41:29 ahven: how big is the package you downloaded Dec 06 20:41:34 balrog-kun: brand new Dec 06 20:41:46 http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/ Dec 06 20:41:48 Writchie: thanks Dec 06 20:42:00 ahven: how big is the gllin package you downloaded Dec 06 20:42:05 ahven: and you mean the ending of an already established call by the peer? Dec 06 20:42:20 ahven: or an unanswered call? Dec 06 20:42:42 balrog-kun: if the other side hangs up first, the call doesn't end on the Neo side, the counter keeps on ticking Dec 06 20:43:15 hmm that was supposed to be fixed Dec 06 20:43:56 balrog-kun: yup, wrong size Dec 06 20:44:09 strange behaviour from wget Dec 06 20:44:42 blah..html? :P Dec 06 20:53:23 ahven: you can not use wget, you need to use html by browser so that you have to click on the eula Dec 06 20:56:28 Oh. My. God. I am a fool :-) Dec 06 20:56:39 Basically, 321 invalid_memory_index means "there aren't any messages" :-) Dec 06 20:56:52 lol Dec 06 20:57:09 tonyg: seeing is believing :) Dec 06 20:57:23 How I got here: 1. +CNMI=0,0,0,0,0. 2. Send myself an SMS. 3. +CMGL="ALL". 4. Actual correct result! 5. +CMGD to delete what arrived. 6. +CMGL="ALL" --> 321 invalid memory index Dec 06 20:57:44 one more time, for luck Dec 06 20:58:26 gps worked like it should Dec 06 20:58:45 hyup. ok, I'm happy again :) Dec 06 21:03:01 when I enter the gps coords into google or osm my displayed position is about 90km to far in the south. How can this be Dec 06 21:03:04 ? Dec 06 21:03:43 even google can be wrong! :p Dec 06 21:04:07 you sure the lat/long is the right way round? Dec 06 21:04:08 ok but google an osm are shows the same position Dec 06 21:04:14 try swapping it Dec 06 21:05:01 already tried, but only 90Km to far in the south, the longitude seems to be ok Dec 06 21:05:09 matsimoto, are you near the equator? Dec 06 21:05:24 no, berlin germany Dec 06 21:05:34 :) well that rules *that* possibility out Dec 06 21:06:08 I get this from nmeNP: $GPGGA,210544.00,5227.577827,N,01318.824654,E,1,04,3.0,086.0,M,0.201002,M,0.0180515,*4C Dec 06 21:06:33 matsimoto: are the coordinates in degrees/minutes/seconds or as decimals? Dec 06 21:06:40 I think 52.27,13.18 should be ok ... am I wrong? Dec 06 21:07:04 guaqua: as you see in the GGA Record Dec 06 21:07:58 i don't know the format of the GGA record Dec 06 21:08:34 guaqua: take a look at http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#GGA if you like Dec 06 21:09:07 iirc the encoding is not so simple Dec 06 21:09:27 seems like degrees and then minutes have decimals Dec 06 21:09:40 Iam new to navigation it is for sure my fault. Dec 06 21:10:09 on the main screen, where can I configure the actions for turning on/off the bluetooth etc? Dec 06 21:13:08 or is it all compiled? Dec 06 21:30:13 seems like it Dec 06 21:31:07 ahven: Yeah, hardcoded in neod Dec 06 21:32:10 can I (ab)use something in order to monitor the state of the bluetooth, without recompiling? Dec 06 21:33:10 What exactly do you mean by "monitor"? Dec 06 21:33:19 ahven, would cat /sys/class/i2c-dev/i2c-0/device/0-0008/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on do what you need? Dec 06 21:34:00 ahven: Or use hcitool to scan and such Dec 06 21:34:45 I would like it to (try) to connect to my computer using "pand", when the bluetooth is turned on Dec 06 21:35:27 Well, OM is a Debian derivative so I'm sure you can use the ifup mechanism somehow Dec 06 21:36:03 well, the BT is turned on, no new interfaces aren't created at first Dec 06 21:36:16 the command I want to execute, will do that :) Dec 06 21:36:23 Oh, right. I forgot Dec 06 21:36:52 does anyone know if the neo supports an active external gps antenna? Dec 06 21:37:06 there is a connector for it :) Dec 06 21:37:45 bit does it support active antennas? I suggest, that they need a fixed voltage on the connector Dec 06 21:38:17 Further above, the small golden connector (type MMCX) is for enhancing GPS reception with an optional external antenna (not included). Dec 06 21:38:22 reads in the wiki Dec 06 21:38:35 I read these lines Dec 06 21:38:58 seems that it doesn't have the power to support active antennas Dec 06 21:39:23 the miniusb provides enough for the device itself Dec 06 21:39:36 ok, thats the information I looked for, thanks Dec 06 21:39:37 but not 100% sure :) Dec 06 21:40:10 ;) we both have the same opinion Dec 06 21:40:36 ahven: If you can code you could either make a custom neod for yourself or write a client that uses inotify to watch the sysfs entry used to switch BT power (given that inotify works with sysfs, which I do not know) Dec 06 21:41:22 yup, the same conclusion Dec 06 21:41:39 i can select in the Terminal Dec 06 21:41:47 how does the pasting work? :) Dec 06 21:41:56 ahven, good question ;) Dec 06 21:42:07 afaict, there isn't any way of pasting Dec 06 21:43:56 Hey folks, just checking in... nice to see the GTA02 is now in testing Dec 06 21:44:53 Just a couple quick questions, a) since the GTA02 has a powered USB port could you use one of those USB 3G modems with it? and b) Might there be a GTA03 that has 3G/CDMA in the future? Dec 06 21:52:40 Hello, everyone. Dec 06 21:53:06 /bin/pand -Q10 -c 00:02:72:CC:B0:D5 << when it is in a scriptfile, it doesn't work Dec 06 21:53:16 but if I execute it on the command line, everything works Dec 06 21:53:31 ahven: add some sleeps around? Dec 06 21:53:41 last line :) Dec 06 21:54:08 #!/bin/sh Dec 06 21:54:08 echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on Dec 06 21:54:08 /bin/pand -Q10 -c 00:02:72:CC:B0:D5 Dec 06 21:54:11 the whole file Dec 06 21:54:26 powering up the bt device succeeds Dec 06 21:54:34 so echo works Dec 06 21:54:47 add sleep 2 after echo Dec 06 21:54:50 hi all Dec 06 21:55:19 where can i find resources for porting openmoko to other devices? Dec 06 21:55:40 not the other way around? :) Dec 06 21:55:57 no Dec 06 21:56:03 siavash: what kind of device is your target? Dec 06 21:56:53 pavelm: Sony Ericsson Mobile phones Dec 06 21:57:08 Siavash: symbian ones? Dec 06 21:57:26 pavelm: yeah, I have a M600i Dec 06 21:59:07 univac: thanks, it worked now Dec 06 21:59:17 * ahven scratches his head in confusion Dec 06 21:59:29 Cyorxamp: If you can get a driver for an external USB modem then sure, you could use it Dec 06 22:00:07 siavash: do you have kernel booting? Dec 06 22:00:15 abraxa_: well I think its probably one thats already known to the linux kernel anyway Dec 06 22:00:30 How about possible CDMA being built in on a later edition? Dec 06 22:00:47 I would assume it to be on the roadmap Dec 06 22:01:08 Though EDGE/UMTS might have higher priority, dunno Dec 06 22:01:13 pavelm: what do you mean? Dec 06 22:01:53 pavelm: a linux kernel for M600i that can boot the device? Dec 06 22:01:55 * CM fetches the clue bat ;) Dec 06 22:02:01 cdma would pretty much presuppose operator co-operation, not a given Dec 06 22:02:17 siavash: Yes... do you have such kernel? Dec 06 22:02:25 pavelm: no Dec 06 22:03:19 Siavash: you are on wrong channel, then... kernel is first step. Dec 06 22:05:28 pavelm: ah, I thought kernel is part of openmoko, tnx Dec 06 22:06:44 hi everybody! Dec 06 22:11:15 hi, m0nt0 Dec 06 22:14:28 Good night Dec 06 22:14:49 hi pavelm Dec 06 22:15:12 good night, cm Dec 06 22:17:24 UMTS would certainly be nice. Dec 06 22:17:36 what's that? Dec 06 22:17:48 * pavelm has hack to connect to 6151 over bt... Dec 06 22:18:13 * ajbrun congratulates pavelm in third person Dec 06 22:18:18 ajbrun: up to 1Mbit data link. Dec 06 22:18:44 ajbrun: 200msec latency. Actually usable, unlike gprs Dec 06 22:18:56 sounds funky Dec 06 22:21:15 sounds "must have" for gta02 :-) Dec 06 22:21:46 is that one if it's features? Dec 06 22:22:18 I don't think so :-( Dec 06 22:24:00 ...seems like gta02 does not even have EDGE. EDGE is mandatory in czech republic... Dec 06 22:24:28 i've not heard of edge before the iphone came about. I don't think we have it in the uk Dec 06 22:24:45 no EDGE - no DTM - will have to wait for UMTS version which will also solve the packet data + voice at same time problem Dec 06 22:24:53 ajbrun: In the uk you have 3G aka UMTS... Dec 06 22:25:06 ahhh - same thing Dec 06 22:25:11 i've heard of 3g Dec 06 22:26:19 Writchie: Or you can just use "external" UMTS modem -- aka nokia 6151. Dec 06 22:26:32 Writchie: Also solves many reliability issues :-) Dec 06 22:26:58 how prevalant is wi-fi these days? Dec 06 22:27:02 yes - but then an n800 might be a better option. Dec 06 22:27:30 Writchie: yes ;-) Dec 06 22:27:44 ajbrun: in cities wifi is everywhere, but encrypted in most places. Dec 06 22:28:07 who wan't to log on to wifi just to do an SMS or phone call? Dec 06 22:29:01 ...actually... with flatrate UMTS... who wants to use wifi? Dec 06 22:29:03 :-) Dec 06 22:29:48 ...gta02: bluetooth is connected to usb, again :-(((((((((((((((((((( Dec 06 22:29:49 the WiFi is useful but for most its a secondary use case. Dec 06 22:29:52 ...that eats power! Dec 06 22:30:07 pavelm: you have a GTA02 Dec 06 22:30:08 ...lots of lots of power. Basically making bt unusable :-( Dec 06 22:30:20 be nice if someone could devise a way to make everything ad-hoc or something Dec 06 22:30:31 writchie: No... I'm just reading http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware . Dec 06 22:30:44 GTA01 BT is connected to USB Dec 06 22:30:46 no one has one yet Dec 06 22:30:57 so no change there Dec 06 22:30:59 how do you mean Writchie? Dec 06 22:31:00 writchie: but I'd certainly like to play with with gta02. Dec 06 22:31:16 writchie: Yes, in gta01 BT is on USB, and that's a bad mistake. Dec 06 22:31:19 gra02 seems to be a rumor Dec 06 22:31:25 GTA02 isnt a rumour Dec 06 22:31:31 pavelm: why Dec 06 22:31:32 BT connected to usb meaning 2 unusable at same time? Dec 06 22:31:49 writchie: Because cpu can't sleep with USB on. Dec 06 22:31:53 i got told they could be used at the same time unless i'm understanding it wrong Dec 06 22:32:02 sure it can Dec 06 22:32:13 you have to put the devices into standby Dec 06 22:32:35 i.e. sleep Dec 06 22:32:37 will the bluetooth chip support that? Dec 06 22:33:01 I mean.. on nokia you can have bluetooth enabled all the time ("discoverable") and still have 7 days of standby. Dec 06 22:33:36 yes - the chip also supports out of band wakeup for cases where the CPU is dead. Unfortunately these are not wired up to be usable in GTA02 because priority was given to WiFi Dec 06 22:34:04 writchie: ok.. that's slightly bad. Dec 06 22:34:24 surley BT > wi-fi? Dec 06 22:34:44 writchie: It means gta01 nor gta02 is going to be useful as a bluetooth modem. ... but given that both only do GPRS ... it is probably not _so_ big loss. Dec 06 22:34:47 pavelm: BT doesn't have to be discoverable. You can be in low power waiting just for a page Dec 06 22:35:25 writchie: But gta02 is unable to do that, because of missing "bt wakeup <-> cpu" connections, right? Dec 06 22:35:26 gta01 (with right software) can handle BT sleep issues with no problem (theoretically) Dec 06 22:36:07 writchie: I was wrong in gta01 case. I did not realize you can wire bt to cpu wakeup pins Dec 06 22:36:52 writchie: Does "wake up on incoming call" work these days? Dec 06 22:36:59 pavelm: not to cpu wakeup - but we can sample the wakeup pins every second or so and then wake up the SoC Dec 06 22:37:06 pavelm: yes Dec 06 22:37:07 pavelm: not AFAIK. Dec 06 22:37:19 however, the modem comes back screwed up Dec 06 22:37:20 i haven't seen support in the driver for this yet Dec 06 22:37:28 doesnt work here :-( Dec 06 22:37:32 SpeedEvil: it's waking up? Dec 06 22:37:35 speedevil: Hi! ... and sorry for my disappearance yesterday. My link failed. Dec 06 22:37:35 so it wakes, but then the modem can't be talked to Dec 06 22:37:46 I'm using the november snapshot Dec 06 22:37:48 not suprising since the baud rates are all borked Dec 06 22:38:06 the driver to repgrogram all of the hardware regs on resume Dec 06 22:38:16 i don't see any code yet for this. Dec 06 22:38:17 speedevil: november snapshot == http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/ ? Dec 06 22:38:37 Writchie: not another s3c24xx driver that doesnt resume :-( Dec 06 22:39:09 that looks about right pavelm. Dec 06 22:39:11 unless it's recently been changed the uart driver has no code for this Dec 06 22:39:27 dma driver is the same, I had to work around in sound driver Dec 06 22:39:28 thanks, speedEvil Dec 06 22:39:38 must be a general s3c24xx short coming Dec 06 22:39:40 is there any 'this is the image you are using' file on the phone? Dec 06 22:39:55 /etc/angstrom-version I think Dec 06 22:40:55 sigh. my server - to which the phone is connected is brokenish - root@fic-gta01:~$ cat /etc/angstrom-version Dec 06 22:40:55 hopefull the new kernel maintainer will soon be up to speed and maybe there can be some discussion of what/when Dec 06 22:40:59 Angstrom Snapshot-20071201 Dec 06 22:41:13 Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Sat Dec 1 03:40:58 CET 2007 armv4tl unknown Dec 06 22:41:57 Writchie: feel free to send a patch, I can incorporate it in OE and the kernel guys can see it :-) Dec 06 22:42:16 path to what baseline Dec 06 22:42:40 Writchie: well in OE im only fiddling with 2.6.22, but Ill bet 2.6.24 hasnt changed much Dec 06 22:42:41 i can't keep track of the 23 stream, the 24 stream, and where we are in 22? Dec 06 22:42:49 If this works - it'd be nice. though I'm unsure that flow control is set right to stop the modem sending stuff. Dec 06 22:43:14 the only better thing would be getting the modem to stop wasting huge amounts of power in active mode. Dec 06 22:43:23 Writchie: feel free to patch later kernels if you like, Im quite happy to backport Dec 06 22:43:58 what would be the one to patch, 2.6.23.5 moko11? Dec 06 22:44:16 Writchie: well LaF0rge seems to have knocked 2.6.24 into shape in svn Dec 06 22:44:27 s/6.23/6.22/ Dec 06 22:44:27 Writchie meant: what would be the one to patch, 2.6.22.5 moko11? Dec 06 22:44:56 Writchie: I guess if you patch 2.6.22 I can apply it immediately, then the kernel guys can forward port Dec 06 22:45:08 i had big problems with 23 Dec 06 22:45:32 with PM changes on loading and unloaded drivers due to kernel objects not being freed Dec 06 22:45:44 and problems with kzalloc not zeroing memory. Dec 06 22:45:52 all this in mainline. Dec 06 22:45:57 * XorA|gone never tried 2.6.23, now LaF0rge seems to be doing stuff again Ill probably look at 2.6.24 sometime Dec 06 22:46:15 * pavelm hopes gta01 patches go to mainline soon... Dec 06 22:46:18 i've wasted many days chasing phantoms. Dec 06 22:49:19 XorA|gone I'll try to do a build this weekend and see where it stands. Dec 06 22:50:13 XorA: 23 may have regressions and it might be best to skip it if LaForge is making good progress on 24 Dec 06 22:52:35 blah, post-down/pre-down doesn't want to co-operate tonight Dec 06 22:53:12 Writchie: well his blog post seemed to indicate he is knocking it into shape for mainline Dec 06 22:55:19 * XorA|gone decides to sleep Dec 06 22:56:15 I wan't to add a "post-down" action for my usb0 device, but since the bnep0 (bluetooth) can't be always disconnected nicely, it goes around the usual scripts Dec 06 22:56:22 where do I have to put it? :) Dec 06 22:57:37 if a network device dissapears from the device list, what react to that kind of action? Dec 06 23:01:25 Ok, I guess I should get some sleep. Dec 06 23:01:44 * ajbrun gives pavelm some sleep Dec 06 23:08:31 roh, Hi, I'm reading http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/One_transistor_too_many . Dec 06 23:08:58 roh, So the idea is, you desolder this transistor and just short the pins where it was? Dec 06 23:15:14 ...we desoldered the transistor, and thta was it. Dec 06 23:15:28 ...iirc that's right thing to do... and my moko still seems to work. Dec 06 23:16:23 it was a pulldown for the reset pin to the GSM so it sounds right to just remove the transistor which will leave the pull up in place. Dec 06 23:23:18 pavelm, Can't I, like, smash it instead or something? Dec 06 23:23:22 on my buildhost compilation openmoko from scratch takes 9h Dec 06 23:23:25 :> Dec 06 23:23:31 You probably know this, pavelm, but it's, like, small. Dec 06 23:24:23 is there anything slower than monotone? Dec 06 23:25:00 paul: I'd not recommend smashing. Desolder one pin, then move it on the remaining two few times, and it should fall apart. Dec 06 23:26:17 burn it with the handy laser the neo ships with! Dec 06 23:26:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 ends at separating the PCB, which I have. Dec 06 23:26:38 "laser beam" Dec 06 23:26:52 But how do I remove (and reassamble...) the shield that covers that area of the PCB where the evil transistor is? Dec 06 23:27:11 + how to remove the LCD Dec 06 23:27:21 paul: You don't need to remove lcd. Dec 06 23:27:47 paul: just carefully move the shielding away from the pcb. It snaps in place. Dec 06 23:27:58 (hehe, and be sure to update wiki :-) Dec 06 23:29:32 move it away? Dec 06 23:29:36 It looks... Dec 06 23:29:51 It has these fingers which grab over the edge and seem to be tight. Dec 06 23:30:17 Do you know what I'm talking about? Dec 06 23:30:22 The edges of the shielding... Dec 06 23:30:36 Yes. Dec 06 23:30:45 You'll see tiny dots keeping it in place, actually. Dec 06 23:30:55 Yes exactly. Dec 06 23:31:02 Just put very small screwdriver below the finger, and unsnap it.Repeat with all the fingers. Dec 06 23:31:10 Okay. Dec 06 23:31:22 _carefully_. Dec 06 23:31:37 BTW it has some additional fingers in the "middle" of the shield, too. Dec 06 23:36:24 I don't see GTA03 in the road map, or infact virtualkly any information in an official sense on GTA03 Dec 06 23:36:46 If GTA02 is nearing being sold, shouldn't GTA03 be the next concern? Dec 06 23:36:47 03? Dec 06 23:37:01 who says there's an 03? Dec 06 23:37:07 Lots of rumour says :D Dec 06 23:37:18 don't hold your breath Dec 06 23:37:25 That a device in 2008, would have 3G, i.e. CDMA for example Dec 06 23:37:32 ah Dec 06 23:37:51 i'll probably still just get gta02 if it's going to be an on going thing like this then Dec 06 23:38:01 I'm holding out for that, want a device that I can use VoIP constantly Dec 06 23:38:03 and sell my model when a new one comes out Dec 06 23:38:12 i.e. Abandon GSM and just use SIP over 3G data connection Dec 06 23:38:30 anyway - bed now Dec 06 23:38:30 nn Dec 06 23:38:33 nn Dec 06 23:38:46 honestly, given the delay with 02 I'd be _very_ surprised if 03 shows up in 2008. There's so many undecided HW choices at this point of time. Dec 06 23:39:35 Well theres no combined 3G based Linux devices out there Dec 06 23:39:43 Cyor: Forget that. Dec 06 23:39:59 Cyor: 3G coverage is _far_ from good enough to replace GSM. Dec 06 23:40:09 pavelm: Not in the UK, it's everywhere Dec 06 23:40:38 Cyor: Are you sure? Anyway, you'd better not leave UK with such device :-) Dec 06 23:40:44 Cyor: GSM is still mandatory. Dec 06 23:40:48 I wouldn't need to lol Dec 06 23:41:12 paul: I guess I should need some sleep. Did you manage to remove the shield? Dec 06 23:41:19 I don't mind the GSM - still any SIM card would use GSM and CDMA... but I prefer to use a SIP Provider for calls than a Cellular Network Dec 06 23:41:27 So always on 3G is a bonus Dec 06 23:41:51 pavelm, No, but I'll do this another day. Dec 06 23:42:00 Or see if I can find someone else who wants to. (-: Dec 06 23:42:10 * mjr doubts the uk either has any kind of comprehensive umts outside cities Dec 06 23:42:16 paul: Ok... You'll need some pretty good soldering equipment. Dec 06 23:42:20 * pavelm doubts that too. Dec 06 23:42:30 mjr - well in rare places there isn't - theres GSM Dec 06 23:42:38 Cyorxamp, which was the point Dec 06 23:42:50 I could sticky a 3G USB modem on the back of it lol - but it would look horrible Dec 06 23:42:53 ...like I know about 2 places in czech republic where there's _no_ GSM coverage. That is probably hard to do with 3G. Dec 06 23:43:21 paul: And probably someone to operate that soldering equipment ;-). Dec 06 23:43:29 paul: Good luck. Dec 06 23:43:31 All: Good night. Dec 06 23:43:46 90% coverage in the UK on 3G Dec 06 23:43:47 Cyor... Actually, question for you. Do you use 3G actively? Dec 06 23:44:05 I would do, I would be using instant messaging, e-mail, and VoIP over it all the time Dec 06 23:44:08 Cyor: 90% is not good enough. Actually 99% is low, too. Dec 06 23:44:23 You can get tarrifs even where you don't get calls/sms but just 3gb of data Dec 06 23:44:26 I need someone with 3G to do few pings for me. Dec 06 23:44:29 90% is good enough for me Dec 06 23:44:30 good night pavelm Dec 06 23:44:38 nice to see you balrog. Dec 06 23:44:51 :) Dec 06 23:44:59 ggood night. Dec 06 23:45:13 lemme guess... 90% coverage of people, not land? Dec 06 23:45:15 GSM + CDMA =Perfection Dec 06 23:45:20 No land mass! Dec 06 23:45:44 You underestimate britain loi, were turning all our copper phone lines off by 2011 you know! Dec 06 23:45:57 Analogue TV signals are already being turned off Dec 06 23:46:15 3G is everywhere, Wi-Max will be everywhere by 2011 Dec 06 23:46:40 analogue TV signals are so start-of-the-year here already Dec 06 23:46:42 Home broadband like up to 26mbps! Dec 06 23:46:59 soon 50mbps with VDSL Dec 06 23:47:20 Need a british PDA :D Dec 06 23:47:25 maybe it'll keep up lol Dec 06 23:48:27 what about Wi-Max on Neo??? Dec 06 23:49:02 I have not heard about it... Dec 06 23:49:03 what about sanity Dec 06 23:49:20 because there ain't gonna be wi-max on gta02, and the rest is up in the air anyways Dec 06 23:49:28 yet another GSM PDA... thats what I see.. a ncie one don't get me wrong - but its old tech Dec 06 23:49:50 what about just voice + SMS plus one day standby and then and only then move on from there. Dec 06 23:50:41 I'm already using a linux PDA and seperate phone - the only thing I want is proper mobile web on the PDA, and GPRS is too slow to bother with (and expensive) Dec 06 23:50:47 Cyorxamp: you miss the whole point. Once its solid as a phone, it can also be whatever you want it be for many years. Dec 06 23:50:48 and not good enough for VoIP Dec 06 23:51:15 Cyorxamp: openmoko is not for you - see maemo Dec 06 23:51:28 nah maemo isn't good either! Dec 06 23:51:38 Nokia Tablets aint either GSM or GPRS! Dec 06 23:51:43 or CDMA! Dec 06 23:52:23 just BT to a $100 UMTS phone (Ku250) Dec 06 23:53:07 is that even Linux? Dec 06 23:53:13 or a T39m for $20 for that matter Dec 06 23:53:33 these are phones ffs Dec 06 23:53:44 Well if you insist on Linux you can pair your N800 with a $250 E6, but that's rather pointless. Dec 06 23:54:04 SuN - I was going to at one point, then I found out about this and put it on hold Dec 06 23:54:43 Well, I was telling earlier... I did that with a Zaurus SL5500, a Zaurus SL-C860 and a Simpad, I'm not putting stuff on hold anymore :) Dec 06 23:54:50 I'll buy stuff that's ready. Dec 06 23:55:01 I already use a SL-5500 now with a Nokia 6500 Dec 06 23:55:27 but since its not a contract tarrif I can't use the over-IR modem on the nokia anyway and it'd be crap anyway Dec 06 23:56:21 Isn't the plan the real problem, then? Dec 06 23:56:46 nah, I'd go for a proper contract data tarrif if I have the right equipment to do so Dec 06 23:56:53 I mean the SL-5500 isn't even bluetooth lol Dec 06 23:57:02 Can be with a CF though. Dec 06 23:57:14 bah, not good enough Dec 06 23:57:15 Would cost like GBP10, I guess. Dec 06 23:57:30 What do you want? A wimax link to the phone in your pocket? Dec 06 23:57:35 I can't be doing carrying CF cards, WiFi cards, BlueTooth cards, etc.. Dec 06 23:57:51 I want a Linux PDA with GSM and CDMA Dec 06 23:57:56 If you have a clever case, the card will never have to leave the soecket. Dec 06 23:58:36 nah I need to abandon the SL-5500, even the third party distros are leaving it behind now Dec 06 23:58:49 bugs a plenty, repo's no longer working - etc Dec 06 23:58:49 Cyorxamp, tell that to santa Dec 06 23:59:10 Yeah, I jumped ship on the Z a while ago. Dec 06 23:59:16 While they were still worth a penny :) Dec 06 23:59:30 lol - gonna turn mine into a door entry system when I jump lol Dec 06 23:59:41 Is that the proper expression for abandoning, though? Dec 07 00:00:07 ? Dec 07 00:00:16 Jumping ship, I mean. Dec 07 00:00:31 what about it Dec 07 00:01:08 Does that mean "abandoning" or does it mean the opposite (or neither)? Dec 07 00:01:10 my other idea was get a HTC Universal - apparently everything works but one of the cameras on the linux for it Dec 07 00:01:28 only I'd really hate the 'e' button looking up at me Dec 07 00:01:30 Even power management? Dec 07 00:01:35 think so Dec 07 00:02:04 WiFi, Bluetooth, GSM, CDMA, GPRS, WAP, you name it Dec 07 00:02:04 HM Dec 07 00:02:21 Not sure if it's too bulky, but the HTC machines are awesome devices. Dec 07 00:02:32 If they didn't run sordid Windows Mobile I would have gotten one. Dec 07 00:02:41 sure but I'd much prefer a unit specifically meant for linux Dec 07 00:02:55 If everything works, frankly, I don't care. Dec 07 00:03:02 but high speed data is a must, especially in a country where its very much available Dec 07 00:03:30 My unlimited plan is limited (yes, that sounds contradictory) to 128kbit anyway. Dec 07 00:03:51 On O2 here, I think its £20 a month, and you get 3gb a month Dec 07 00:04:13 should be enough for my VoIP needs, instant messaging, and occasional web site Dec 07 00:04:14 I pay EUR 10 for this, it's fair use. Dec 07 00:04:44 But with 128kbit, what are you going to do, anyway. Dec 07 00:05:00 I use it for occasional browsing when I'm bored in the train, and mobile e-mail. Dec 07 00:05:04 CDMA is up to about 1.5mbps now Dec 07 00:05:05 No interest in VOIP. Dec 07 00:05:12 dual 3G modems get you up to 3mbps Dec 07 00:05:29 Nice. But faster than my home line :D Dec 07 00:05:47 lol, you can't not take an interest in VoIP here... all analogue lines will be off by 2011 - everyone will be on VoIP if you like it or now Dec 07 00:05:49 *not Dec 07 00:06:13 Landline voip, perhaps, but I see no use for it on the road. Dec 07 00:06:35 if your device is constantly on the net... like your home Dec 07 00:06:39 why use GSM at all? Dec 07 00:06:51 Cost. But I don't do voice calls much anyway, so it's kinda moot. Dec 07 00:06:54 Because for now, it's cheaper. Dec 07 00:07:04 ANd the overhead is bullshit, IMO. Dec 07 00:07:05 Cheaper on GSM! nonsense! Dec 07 00:07:29 £20 for 3gb a month, always on internet - always able to receive and make calls using a SIP client Dec 07 00:07:35 take your home number with you! Dec 07 00:07:52 How many minutes does that translate to, though? Dec 07 00:07:56 ANd is it reliable? Dec 07 00:08:04 what home number... Dec 07 00:08:07 well coverage here is very good Dec 07 00:08:19 mjr, whatever DDI your SIP provider may give you Dec 07 00:08:51 you could even use SIP URI's Dec 07 00:09:17 yeah yeah Dec 07 00:09:22 DNS servers here are being updated for ENUM support ready for the swap Dec 07 00:11:41 well anyway - I'll keep my ears out for any GTA03 next year Dec 07 00:11:56 else I might go for a HTC or a Nokia combo Dec 07 00:13:11 night! Dec 07 00:13:13 might as well already Dec 07 00:13:16 I'd be tempted by the HTC TyTn II if the OS wasn't so retarded Dec 07 00:14:05 I might be tempted by a new nokia communicator, thats if it could run linux lol Dec 07 00:15:21 Hm, too bulky for me. Dec 07 00:15:39 ewon: I second that Dec 07 00:30:31 03mickeyl * r5 10/trunk/README: ciabot testcommit 2 Dec 07 00:32:21 03mickeyl * r6 10/trunk/README: ciabot testcommit #3 Dec 07 00:32:27 mmrh Dec 07 00:33:23 mickeyl: ? Dec 07 00:33:36 i want the bot to show the project name Dec 07 00:33:42 Ah Dec 07 00:33:53 since i'm feeding more than just openmoko here now Dec 07 00:34:07 but somehow he refuses Dec 07 00:37:33 03mickeyl * r7 10/trunk/README: add link to wiki Dec 07 00:39:50 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r8 10/trunk/README: sign Dec 07 00:39:55 aha Dec 07 00:39:57 here we are Dec 07 00:40:05 ok, now i can go to bed Dec 07 00:40:07 g'night Dec 07 00:40:07 :) Dec 07 00:47:52 what is the status of power saving of gta01 ? Dec 07 00:48:37 no change Dec 07 00:49:41 when 2.6.24 changes settle down someone will look at patches necessary to uart driver Dec 07 00:49:56 Are we at .24 now, then? Dec 07 00:50:09 it looks like the 24 work may be passing 23 Dec 07 00:50:15 * Kero sees only .22 Dec 07 00:50:17 so 22 -> 24 Dec 07 00:50:48 LaForge is pushing a bunch of stuff upstream into 24rc4 Dec 07 00:50:48 fine with me :) Dec 07 00:50:51 Ok. hehe - see what happens when I become busy elsewhere for a couple of weeks... Dec 07 00:51:04 you can't do that Dec 07 00:51:08 ;) Dec 07 00:51:16 im just telling somebody on another server/channel about the neo1973, was wondering whether anyone has written an sms/mms app yet, since last time I checked there wasnt one? Dec 07 00:51:21 :) December is Hell Month for me. Dec 07 00:51:34 there is also a new kernel guy on board and coming up to speed Dec 07 00:51:50 mwester: what should we do to convince you not to be busy elsewhere? :) Dec 07 00:52:06 Pay me real $ so I don't have to work for a living anymore ;) :P Dec 07 00:52:27 dashavoo: There's openmoko-messages2 Dec 07 00:52:32 exchange rate from euros isn't that bad ;) Dec 07 00:52:34 Kero: no,a ctually so that mwester *is* busy elsewhere, cause we immediately get updates then :P Dec 07 00:52:37 aww - work and leisure getting in the way of hacking ;) Dec 07 00:52:38 We have an SMS app now too????? Dec 07 00:52:49 Yeah Dec 07 00:52:49 abraxa_, wicked, thanks :) Dec 07 00:52:56 balrog-kun: it would seem that you're correct on that! Dec 07 00:53:07 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/cad4520c3161687ebd79dfbd251e2d86.png suggests that it's working as well ;) Dec 07 00:53:11 but I'm not rich enough to pay a salary... Dec 07 00:53:19 Ok, I'll go away now for another couple of weeks, and the phone should be done by then, right? Dec 07 00:53:44 hehe Dec 07 00:53:48 by extrapolation, yes Dec 07 00:54:02 mwester: Buh-bye :) Dec 07 00:54:14 Toodle-oo! ;) Dec 07 00:54:26 Oh gawd Dec 07 00:54:31 Are you from .nz? Dec 07 00:55:14 wow - both of the people that live in nz in the same chat ;) Dec 07 00:56:27 Who - me? I'm from Chicago - where the center of the universe *really* is. :P Dec 07 00:57:14 ~blame Chicago Dec 07 00:57:15 * apt blames Chicago (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Dec 07 00:57:47 And from Canada before that, where they threw me out for causing so much evil. Dec 07 00:58:57 * mwester goes to watch the ball game and studiously ignore the openmoko project, in hopes that more major progress will occur in his absence. Dec 07 01:00:04 Next thing you know - you're gone and we are all using e. Dec 07 01:00:20 if you do that too often we will have 2.6.25 before Linus even releases it Dec 07 01:05:59 hello moko Dec 07 01:06:29 so when can I get a GTA02 ;)? Dec 07 01:06:38 It's December now ;) Dec 07 01:10:27 I love to know too! I cant wait, does anybody know for sure the retail price of GTA02?? Dec 07 01:10:55 * chillywilly will pay anything to be able to hack/customize his cell phone ;) Dec 07 01:13:35 openmoko: 03sameo * r3610 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/ (8 files): Dec 07 01:13:35 openmoko: ar6k-atheros: DMA support. Dec 07 01:13:35 openmoko: We now use DMA for all IO xfers. Dec 07 01:13:35 openmoko: The udelay bug is now fixed as well: We are missing a RSPFIN interrupt Dec 07 01:13:35 openmoko: and getting an RFDET/TXDET one instead. Dec 07 02:04:55 Hello Dec 07 02:05:10 is there a spec for pictographs on Openmoko? Dec 07 02:35:43 when i build with gtk+-directfb it report No buildable providers available for required build target gtkfb-image ('['gtk+-directfb', 'pango-directfb']') **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 07 02:59:57 2007