**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 08 02:59:57 2007 Dec 08 03:17:30 Anybody gotten openmoko running on a treo 700? Dec 08 04:05:38 what does stupid paki mean? has any of you ever felt any great pain? how was it? !!! was it accident? how bad can it be if i am in a car accident for ex got hit by a train but still alive? or half burnt my entire skin including eyes? how about heart attack / failure? Dec 08 04:12:23 ok then Dec 08 04:12:56 if you intended to be the first #openmoko troll then you're late :) Dec 08 04:56:53 its december an im ready!!! Dec 08 04:57:12 gta03 Dec 08 05:01:02 :/ Dec 08 05:02:52 Do not ask about GTA >=02 :-) Dec 08 05:13:53 lawl Dec 08 05:14:10 march? jeebus. Dec 08 05:14:17 is that hardware or software bound? Dec 08 05:14:21 Hardware. Dec 08 05:14:34 At the moemnt they are evaluating the current version of the 05 hardware Dec 08 05:14:34 nuts Dec 08 05:14:38 err Dec 08 05:14:41 04 hardware Dec 08 05:14:48 and seeing if wifi works. Dec 08 05:14:52 (first code wifi) Dec 08 05:14:57 nice Dec 08 05:15:00 shhhhhhhhh Dec 08 05:15:00 wifi does work Dec 08 05:15:10 but does it work flawlessly? Dec 08 05:15:37 hard to say after less than three days of working Dec 08 05:15:38 enough to commit to a new PCB revision without any potential wifi-related fixes, incorporating the known needed battery bug fix Dec 08 05:16:03 (which I don't think is actually needed, but for other reasons) Dec 08 05:16:46 s/other/philosophical/ Dec 08 05:16:47 SpeedEvil meant: (which I don't think is actually needed, but for philosophical reasons) Dec 08 05:17:03 from what i read the most important delay reason now was due to shortage of parts Dec 08 05:17:14 yoooo nos Dec 08 05:18:39 (In that the battery life can be quite adequately computed in software - hopefully I should be able to demonstrate this in the next week) Dec 08 05:18:49 best way to drive up the price of anything is to have a shortage Dec 08 05:19:16 Unless you live in Zimbabwe. Dec 08 06:19:28 Does anyone have an eeepc? Dec 08 06:19:43 (off-topic) Dec 08 07:32:52 Anjuta Ide gives problem new version install 2.2 when go for new project option it says Could not find autogen version 5, please install the autogen package. You can get it from http://autogen.sourceforge.net Dec 08 07:48:55 SpeedEvil: got one temporarily for testing for some days Dec 08 07:49:01 was nice :) Dec 08 07:49:27 never mind - I found out what I wanted - which was the driver for my new videocamera. Dec 08 07:49:48 Though if anyone was giving away free eeePC's I'd have one. Dec 08 07:49:57 same here :) Dec 08 07:50:02 I'd just be dissapointed at how little better it is over my current laptop. Dec 08 07:50:13 though I suppose that was a lot more expensive. Dec 08 07:51:00 GTA02 currently is more attractive than Eee :) Dec 08 07:51:05 for me Dec 08 07:52:22 What I'd really like is a modest upgrade of my Toshiba 3110CT which - though I've added bluetooth and wifi to it - is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth. Yes, it has 8 hours, and weighs 1.1Kg, but USB1 only, no SD/... slot, ... Dec 08 07:53:02 But it does have a 2.5" hard drive - which rather makes the eeePC's storage look silly. Dec 08 07:53:40 you can't have them all, just not yet :) Dec 08 08:19:04 anybody got openmoko booting on a treo? Dec 08 08:47:03 anyone has networked Neo through a mobile phone with bluetooth? Dec 08 09:22:34 michael lalonde Dec 08 09:22:37 mike lalonde Dec 08 09:26:57 hi all Dec 08 09:35:51 December 8 build successful; see a lot of new images; which ones need to be flashed? http://pastebin.ca/809170 Dec 08 09:36:11 Flash! Ahaaa! Dec 08 09:49:05 SpeedEvil, i only need to flash openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2, and uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r9-neo1973.bin ? Dec 08 09:59:11 mbuf: yes Dec 08 09:59:21 ahven, ok Dec 08 10:00:36 * mbuf Neo went into deep sleep Dec 08 10:05:28 What would be a rough timeframe before OpenMoko and the Neo1973 are ready for end users? A couple months? Years? Dec 08 10:13:00 Reilithion: a couple of months... Dec 08 10:13:26 That's what I like to hear. ^_^ Dec 08 10:17:32 I would say half a year Dec 08 10:19:43 I read it in mailing list!! Dec 08 10:20:03 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-December/012124.html Dec 08 10:22:09 the hardware will be ready in 1 or 2 months, but the software (in my point of view) needs more polishing Dec 08 10:22:29 delevopment, to be exact Dec 08 10:23:07 ah...ok??there will be a fifth revision of hardware?? Dec 08 10:24:33 I'm waiting for the hardware to be stable and then I will buy it Dec 08 10:26:14 GTA02 should be that thing Dec 08 10:27:17 (Note regarding above: per the IRC and comments on bug 957, there is to be a fifth revision of the GTA02 hardware, so I suspect the timeline is pushed out a bit again.) Dec 08 10:27:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 Dec 08 10:28:15 ok...so I'll wait for the fifth revision...no scheduling yet Dec 08 10:28:23 ?? Dec 08 10:31:09 sry my connecton aborted shortly. did already sombody answered to "[11:25] so we cannot buy neo gta02 on 20th december?" Dec 08 10:31:36 ifeel: if you didn't notice scheduling is not much effective, because each time something pops out it totaly breaks schedule Dec 08 10:31:47 ping to neo is not working (usb0: no IPv6 routers present) from Debian Etch or Gutsy Gibbon; usb0 is configured to 192.168.0.200; what could be the problem? Dec 08 10:32:01 thomasgruebler: not yet, the last time it was pushed to february Dec 08 10:32:32 oh Dec 08 10:33:02 Mononoke: yeah...you're right... Dec 08 10:33:19 i wanted to use the phone for a project but i see i have to change to another platform because the competition is in februrary Dec 08 10:36:59 moin Dec 08 10:50:54 when Neo is connected to PC, it boots; after sometime, it shuts down! while connected, it gets charged for sometime, and then boots again; after few minutes it shuts down again! Dec 08 10:51:38 could it be a battery problem? ping to Neo is not working when image is up and running; Dec 08 11:00:15 hiall I just got my gta01 last week, so far I've tried 2007.02 out (not good) 2007.11(better) but know I'm ready to jump onto something else, newer or something else, qtopia Dec 08 11:00:51 what do you recommend to be able to do more stuff Dec 08 11:01:48 help the development or wait, but yes, qtopia is currently a little better than openmoko Dec 08 11:02:02 but that time will come, when it will be the opposite Dec 08 11:02:04 help the dev tbh Dec 08 11:02:52 what is qtopia? A closed source phone OS similar to everything else out there at the moment, but can be used on most phones? Dec 08 11:03:04 making openmoko better because it's open source? Dec 08 11:04:40 ajbrun: GNOME:KDE=OPENMOKO:QTOPIA Dec 08 11:04:44 ahven: I'm just trying stuff out Dec 08 11:05:35 want input what's cool and I will surly help out, but one needs to look around to see whats out there Dec 08 11:05:38 yep, if you don't like something in qtopia - you will have to live with that, you can't change it Dec 08 11:05:45 ok - i don't know much about linux. I know they're both desktop environments, but i thought they all had their advantages? Dec 08 11:06:05 ah - closed source still Dec 08 11:06:06 kk Dec 08 11:06:06 ahven: we still can loan ideas ... Dec 08 11:08:16 Qtopia is not closed source Dec 08 11:08:32 Let me repeat, Qtopia is not closed source Dec 08 11:08:48 why would you have to live with it if you don't like something? Dec 08 11:10:09 Qtopia has a double license...GPL and proprietary Dec 08 11:10:24 because you must live with much more things you don't like Dec 08 11:10:28 ;D Dec 08 11:10:38 ifeel: Yeah, and that makes it as open as anything will be. Dec 08 11:10:55 Openmoko uses GTK graphics library while Qtopia uses QT... Dec 08 11:11:51 True, Qtopia skips the X server, which is smart performance wise, but a real PITA when trying to port existing applications, etc.. Dec 08 11:11:54 AVee: I think so... Dec 08 11:11:58 Each has it's use. Dec 08 11:13:10 In general, Qtopia is a good thing when you what a phone, OpenMoko is better when you want a PDA. For me, that is about the difference for the user. Dec 08 11:13:50 The rest is mostly technical blabla and personal preference (much like the whole KDE vs Gnome thing) Dec 08 11:14:52 ahven: I'd say qtopia is opensource http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qtopia Dec 08 11:15:26 so Qtopia will have slower development because of the problem porting existing applications...is it true?? Dec 08 11:16:53 Depends, Qtopia fans claim it provides far easier development which might compensate for the extra work. Dec 08 11:19:18 how many years is Qtopia in development phase? Dec 08 11:19:47 No idea, it been around for a while now. Dec 08 11:20:29 much more than openmoko I think...so History rules... Dec 08 11:21:09 openmoko is not so far from Qtopia I think... Dec 08 11:23:15 Frankly, i like the fact that they are around. Different ideas, different people, different ideas, all of that helps when making great software. Dec 08 11:24:08 * AVee is of to lunch Dec 08 11:28:42 morning folks Dec 08 11:28:46 so Dec 08 11:28:55 benchmarking session now Dec 08 11:29:13 * mickeyl runs expedite Dec 08 11:29:25 * ajbrun runs away Dec 08 11:29:32 ifeel: qtopia has been developed since 2002 Dec 08 11:31:07 mickeyl: expedite what is that ? Dec 08 11:31:13 mickeyl: wow!! we're running so fast!! Dec 08 11:31:33 kinneh: graphic intensive benchmark suite from the Enlightenment project Dec 08 11:31:40 ah Dec 08 11:32:15 I say some credits to raster, is that it or is he involed ? Dec 08 11:32:19 saw Dec 08 11:32:41 yeah, that's his baby Dec 08 11:32:47 i'm doing some backend tests Dec 08 11:32:55 letting run fb against x11 Dec 08 11:32:59 later also sdl and directfb Dec 08 11:33:04 to get some idea of numbers Dec 08 11:33:32 in 2007.11 is it just me or is PIN code activation working better if you wait a while before you enter the code ? Dec 08 11:33:47 mickeyl: thinking about not using X ? Dec 08 11:38:01 trying to do a standalone makefile cross-compilation (pkg-config --libs libgsm), and get this error "No package libgsmd found", what needs to be done for this? Dec 08 11:38:03 CM, I do update my build " make update-makefile && make setup update openmoko-devel-image" but it gives me error like Dec 08 11:38:03 NOTE: package openmoko-today2-0.1.0+svnr3478-r2: task do_fetch: failed Dec 08 11:38:03 ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting Dec 08 11:38:03 NOTE: package openmoko-today2-0.1.0+svnr3478: failed Dec 08 11:38:05 ERROR: Build of /home/qvantel/moko/openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-today2_svn.bb do_fetch failed Dec 08 11:38:08 ERROR: Task 290 (/home/qvantel/moko/openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-today2_svn.bb, do_fetch) failed Dec 08 11:38:10 NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 3964 tasks of which 3730 didn't need to be rerun and 1 failed. Dec 08 11:38:14 ERROR: '/home/qvantel/moko/openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-today2_svn.bb' failed Dec 08 11:38:16 make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Dec 08 11:38:18 Any Idia Dec 08 11:40:33 mbuf: PKG_CONFIG_PATH ? Dec 08 11:40:37 kinneh: always Dec 08 11:40:47 I'm always questioning the use of X on a phone. performance vs. flexibility Dec 08 11:40:57 and now i finally can get some numbers Dec 08 11:41:48 mickeyl, ok Dec 08 11:41:52 mickeyl: in where do you publish the results? Dec 08 11:41:56 mickeyl: show us the numbers!! Dec 08 11:42:13 i'll blog about it tomorrow Dec 08 11:42:20 what can i use to get bar graphs? Dec 08 11:42:23 * ajbrun wants to see it Dec 08 11:42:53 this a comparision between openmoko (X-server) and qtopia (non X-server)? Dec 08 11:43:59 qtopia uses directfb? Dec 08 11:44:17 not really, since EFL is neither used in OpenMoko (yet) nor Qtopia. I would need to do this test with Gtk and Qt as well, but let me start w/ EFL since they have a nice benchmark tool Dec 08 11:44:31 mickeyl: i haven't tried this out but looks nice: http://www.burningcutlery.com/derek/bargraph/ Dec 08 11:44:53 mudyc: ah, that looks quite nice Dec 08 11:46:19 mbuf, export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/home/qvantel/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/lib/pkgconfig Dec 08 11:46:50 atul, comment it in ~/.bashrc Dec 08 11:48:41 hi, i'm trying to build openmoko for the first time using the mokomakefile and the build is errorring out Dec 08 11:49:04 hi Dec 08 11:49:08 the error is like so: Dec 08 11:49:23 Applying patch arm-thumb-mutex.patch Dec 08 11:49:23 Get file ../dbinc/mutex.h from Perforce with lock? [y] Dec 08 11:49:23 sh: p4: not found Dec 08 11:49:23 patch: **** Can't get file ../dbinc/mutex.h from Perforce Dec 08 11:49:26 Patch arm-thumb-mutex.patch does not apply (enforce with -f) Dec 08 11:49:29 Dec 08 11:49:32 Dec 08 11:49:43 anybody knows how to overcome this? Dec 08 11:50:23 sounds like balrog-kun broke qemu Dec 08 11:50:40 why is it trying to look at p4? does any project use p4? Dec 08 11:50:43 where did you get your database to? Dec 08 11:50:46 s/to/from/ Dec 08 11:50:47 mickeyl meant: where did you get your database from? Dec 08 11:51:30 mickeyl: are you asking me? Dec 08 11:51:52 yes. are you pulling from openembedded or openmoko? Dec 08 11:52:33 well, looking at the dir structure, it's trying from openembedded Dec 08 11:52:56 ERROR: Task 4863 (/media/disk/backup/moko/openembedded/packages/db/db-native_4.3.29.bb, do_patch) failed Dec 08 11:52:56 Dec 08 11:53:09 i don't think you can tell that from the directory structure Dec 08 11:53:14 Ah, ok Dec 08 11:53:16 since both openembedded.org and monotone.openmoko.org serve org.oe.dev Dec 08 11:53:20 then i have no idea :( Dec 08 11:53:22 but it's important from where you pull Dec 08 11:53:39 i never seen mokomakefile, so i can't comment in more detail Dec 08 11:53:50 but somewhere it should mtn pull from a monotone server Dec 08 11:54:00 and if you're using openembedded.org, you're on your own Dec 08 11:54:10 i will not support that now that OpenMoko has their own server Dec 08 11:54:24 since we did it exactly for the reason not always to build bleeding edge Dec 08 11:54:45 does bitbake save the build log somewhere? Dec 08 11:55:01 usually it prints it out Dec 08 11:55:11 if you call it manually. again, i have no experience with mokomakefile Dec 08 11:55:45 i should use it at some point of time, but calling bitbake is natural to me since i was one of the guys who invented it ;) Dec 08 11:55:48 oh ok Dec 08 11:55:55 :) Dec 08 11:56:17 it did print it out, but the terminal got killed :( Dec 08 11:57:10 is there definatly a GTA02v5 now? Dec 08 11:58:03 so, if i start off with the 'build openmoko from scratch' article on the openmoko wiki, will the build start from where it left off? Dec 08 11:58:20 since it downloaded a lot of stuff, i don't want to restart from the beginning :) Dec 08 11:58:48 libmokoui2 is not available in recent builds? Dec 08 12:02:43 atul: why do you think so? Dec 08 12:03:06 http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/ipk/armv4t/libmokoui2-0_0.1.0+svnr3229-r2_armv4t.ipk Dec 08 12:03:26 mickeyl, in October moko build environment, i am able to build code; in yesterday's build, i get "gtk/gtk.h: no such file or directory" Dec 08 12:03:37 hmm Dec 08 12:03:49 mickeyl, libmokoui2 includes all gtk.h files, right? Dec 08 12:03:52 yes Dec 08 12:05:12 mickeyl, forgot to include libmokoui2 in Makefile; oops; works now, thanks! Dec 08 12:05:21 :) Dec 08 12:05:22 np Dec 08 12:06:20 * atul needs a break Dec 08 12:10:36 mickeyl: mokomakefile pulls from openmoko server with the 'update' target and pulls from openembedded with the 'update-bleeding-edge' target. I can make that 'update-bleeding-edge-no-support-from-mickey' if you like ;-) Dec 08 12:11:17 haha Dec 08 12:11:25 rwhitby: well, i guess it's ok like that ;) Dec 08 12:11:32 don't make it even longer Dec 08 12:12:00 rwhitby: any idea about the build error i got? is it specific to mokomakefile or some recent checkin? Dec 08 12:12:19 if mr. monotone.openmoko.org admin updates the server without checking that it builds, I expect some flames to distro-devel Dec 08 12:12:22 so please do that :)) Dec 08 12:13:01 vikas: do you use perforce in your environment at all? It looks to me like some perforce thing in your environment is overriding some standard tool. Dec 08 12:13:28 mickeyl: ah, but he only checks one host distro, right? Dec 08 12:13:54 so you should publish which one that is, so people can replicate it if they really want to be safe. Dec 08 12:14:41 rwhitby: good point. i'll tell him Dec 08 12:14:48 i guess he's using debian 4 Dec 08 12:14:49 rwhitby: yeah, our office uses perforce, but i have only one envar set for it, i'll try unsetting and re-try Dec 08 12:15:52 vikas: does it override quilt or patch or something like that? Dec 08 12:16:32 well, i just unset it and it worked. the setting is just "P4CONFIG=.p4config" Dec 08 12:16:42 i'm not even sure if any other s/w uses this apart from p4 Dec 08 12:17:04 spooky voodo Dec 08 12:17:06 o Dec 08 12:23:08 so, is e17 going to come to openmoko, now that raster is also part of the project? Dec 08 12:28:06 moin Dec 08 12:33:52 replacing old battery with new battery sustains the Neo when connected to the PC; the old battery got recharged at times and booted fine, but, suddenly died down; urgh! Dec 08 12:34:28 with low power on the battery, and whenever it booted for a short time, ping didn't work with the Neo Dec 08 12:36:05 whut? Dec 08 12:36:27 1. is there any way the old battery can be re-charged? 2. where can i buy more FIC batteries? Dec 08 12:37:00 buy a DT-14 + charger Dec 08 12:37:08 charges it up to 75% Dec 08 12:37:33 I recommend charging batteries by hooking the Neo up to a dumb charger and then put it into FAST charge mode using uboot Dec 08 12:37:45 mickeyl, i see Dec 08 12:45:09 hi all Dec 08 12:45:18 is current qemu broken? Dec 08 12:54:50 i know these will be massivly expensive atm, but is there any reson these won't work in a neo1973 on release? Dec 08 12:54:50 http://gadgets.fosfor.se/64-gb-compact-flash-from-samsung/ Dec 08 12:55:07 just wondering how big you can go :p Dec 08 12:59:21 nice, the synergy client is working 5+ :) Dec 08 12:59:50 they are CF, CF are bigger and i believe more power hungry Dec 08 13:00:27 they are exactly same form as microdrives and maybe about the same power usage, not sure, but you could also put a harddisk instead Dec 08 13:02:28 there are pda's/phone's/cameras with CF or microdrives in them so it's certainly possible Dec 08 13:03:50 I doubt normal CF cards use significantly more power, all these cards mostly contain the same flash chips anyway Dec 08 13:04:45 But the CF harddisks will draw more power (moving parts) and the specification might require more power to be available on a CF slot which could be a problem Dec 08 13:19:30 what is the reason for this error "dfu_download error -71" when trying to reprogram rootfs; have already done "nand erase rootfs"; have flashed uImage already Dec 08 13:22:05 so what's the biggest SD card that will be compatible in a neo? 8GB? Dec 08 13:25:49 is it SDHC? if no: 2GB. if yes: 2048GB. Dec 08 13:26:00 (note: the latter are not on the market yet.) Dec 08 13:27:12 i thought 8GB SDHC cards were available? Dec 08 13:27:30 ajbrun: yes, but not 2TB ones :-) Dec 08 13:27:37 also, remember that the neo is microSD. Dec 08 13:27:49 i think there are 4GB microSD now...? Dec 08 13:28:13 yes, some. wicked expensive. Dec 08 13:29:40 http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC Dec 08 13:29:41 ajbrun: The Neo is SDHC-compatible so you don't have to worry about the card size you buy. Dec 08 13:29:43 oh, sandisk even has 8GB microSD. 85 EUR. Dec 08 13:30:00 £54 - not as bad as i thought Dec 08 13:30:00 the dfu-util built in moko build environment has a different file size compared to the one, I had earlier downloaded from openmoko website; which one to use? Dec 08 13:39:51 enjahova you're there ? Dec 08 13:40:58 nevermind, flashing on different system, works Dec 08 13:45:28 yo Dec 08 13:52:33 I'm pretty new to openmoko coding. I have some trouble compiling the openmoko image to run within xephyr x-sever on my desktop. has anyone of you done this ? Dec 08 13:59:07 phone calls work with December 8th build! Dec 08 14:00:06 and nov too Dec 08 14:00:41 SpeedEvil, sms is working? i just sent one from another phone, but, haven't received it on the Neo Dec 08 14:01:22 where can I find that dec 8th build? Dec 08 14:01:34 ahven, i just built one from scratch, 11 hours Dec 08 14:01:43 oh :) Dec 08 14:07:00 ahven: dec 7 is here anyway http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Dec 08 14:07:43 hmm to automatic building: http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid14_gci1284677,00.html?track=NL-427&ad=614651&asrc=EM_NLT_2721823&uid=4169286 Dec 08 14:09:39 Mononoke: well you really cant trust anyone you dont know, but ... Dec 08 14:17:14 is there any simple voodoo to set my neo back in life? Dec 08 14:18:12 bedboi: Depends on what your Neo is (not) doing Dec 08 14:18:36 my neo is not booting, i mean it's completely discharged i guess Dec 08 14:18:37 bedboi: whats wrong with your neo? Dec 08 14:18:45 give it time to recharge the battery Dec 08 14:19:51 bedboi: If it's just that then you can unplug USB, take out the battery to make sure all circuits turn off, then put it back in and re-attach USB to let it charge Dec 08 14:20:19 After about an hour it should power up again Dec 08 14:20:47 Then you can switch to fast-charging via u-boot (I think entering u-boot and just shutting the Neo off again from there suffices) Dec 08 15:23:50 is the latest image by scaryedcat ok? Dec 08 15:23:58 the openmoko one, obviously Dec 08 15:29:34 bedboi: I've only tested the qtopia version, but that works Dec 08 15:29:55 (OpenMoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071207-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2) Dec 08 15:45:41 Hi! Dec 08 15:45:54 lo Dec 08 15:49:40 When will I be able to buy a Openmoko in Sweden? Dec 08 15:49:48 you can atm i think Dec 08 15:49:55 it's not the full release version Dec 08 15:50:16 Okey. Dec 08 15:50:23 GTA02 is scheduled for a developer release soon (start of 2008 probably) Dec 08 15:50:25 I'd like to know where. Dec 08 15:50:37 same site that's in the topic Dec 08 15:50:44 i'd just wait for GTA02 though Dec 08 15:50:55 That's the English site. Dec 08 15:51:01 for faster cpu, graphics, wifi, accelerometers and more Dec 08 15:51:03 Kristoffer: international Dec 08 15:51:08 I mwant to buy it from a retail-store. Dec 08 15:51:11 want Dec 08 15:51:14 then we don't know Dec 08 15:51:20 could be months Dec 08 15:51:45 Kristoffer: dont expect to be able to do that ever Dec 08 15:51:49 as far as i know, the gta02 version will be the same as the full release Dec 08 15:52:13 why do you want it in a shop, rather than online? Dec 08 15:52:26 buy it at ebay Dec 08 15:52:27 ;D Dec 08 15:54:01 I'd like to see more Linux-stuff in retail-stores. Dec 08 15:54:05 Is it so wrong? Dec 08 15:54:09 we all want that Dec 08 15:54:30 go to stores and say you want more linux stuff Dec 08 15:54:32 Yes, and the phone is a start. Dec 08 15:54:44 maby they will order a bunch Dec 08 15:54:58 if there is enough interest Dec 08 15:54:59 I've done that. They don't know what their HQ say. Dec 08 15:55:03 nothing wrong with that, but i can see it either being released shortly after gta02, or being in contact dev as many open source projects are Dec 08 15:55:29 *constant Dec 08 15:55:35 Can I use Mandriva & Gnome on it as well? Dec 08 15:55:42 How much memory does it have? Dec 08 15:55:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware Dec 08 15:56:00 Kristoffer: those are more for desktops than phones Dec 08 15:56:01 Can I play all the formats of video & audio that exists? Dec 08 15:56:05 yes Dec 08 15:56:16 no, you can't run mandriva on it Dec 08 15:56:34 if you can make the software for it, and there's the hardware that support it, then yes Dec 08 15:56:57 What about USB? Dec 08 15:57:05 it has 1 port Dec 08 15:57:12 read the hardware list Dec 08 15:57:13 mini-usb Dec 08 15:57:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#USB_Device Dec 08 15:57:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware <---- or rather this one Dec 08 15:58:08 for a more "release" version Dec 08 15:58:28 How's the sound compared to other cellphones/PDA's? Dec 08 15:58:37 monotone Dec 08 15:58:44 or rather mono Dec 08 15:58:48 not stereo Dec 08 15:58:53 not monotone obviously Dec 08 15:58:54 the gta01 has stereo Dec 08 15:59:12 and ppl says its good Dec 08 15:59:20 with quality Dec 08 15:59:22 gta doesn't - i think Kristoffer is looking for release (gta02) specs? Dec 08 16:05:14 I'd like to test it. Dec 08 16:05:17 hehe Dec 08 16:06:07 then either get a gta01 now, or wait a month and get a gta02 Dec 08 16:06:29 i'm waiting for the gta02 as i don't see the point in getting a gta01 atm when a new version is just around the corner Dec 08 16:07:02 i wouldn't call that just around the corner Dec 08 16:07:21 gta01 was just around the corner for like 8 months Dec 08 16:07:24 buy a gta01 and sell it when you can get the gta02 Dec 08 16:07:26 ^^ Dec 08 16:07:41 but will people want to buy it when it's only a dev version? Dec 08 16:08:10 some people yes Dec 08 16:08:31 Does gta02 come in Swedish? Dec 08 16:08:32 balrog-kun - just around the corner: can't be much longer after the start of the year can it? Dec 08 16:08:36 4-6 weeks? Dec 08 16:08:53 Kristoffer - don't see why not Dec 08 16:09:09 anything can be done with the software Dec 08 16:09:23 if software can come in sweedish, then yes it can Dec 08 16:10:43 Kristoffer: I just bought one and using it with telia right know Dec 08 16:11:00 still problems with standby time, sms and suspend Dec 08 16:11:31 If I dont allow openmoko to suspend I can make and recive calls right now with 2007.11 Dec 08 16:11:51 what happens if you do allow suspend? Dec 08 16:12:30 gsm problems Dec 08 16:12:51 I havent been able to get is working again after ... Dec 08 16:13:02 I've tried to enable loggin in gsmd Dec 08 16:13:15 but I've came that far with that Dec 08 16:14:15 ki9nneh: How much did you pay for it? Dec 08 16:14:57 https://direct.openmoko.com/ Dec 08 16:15:09 Kristoffer: about 2400 sek Dec 08 16:15:22 300$ + 58$ i frakt och 711 i tull Dec 08 16:16:07 that's a lot... Dec 08 16:16:10 That's not much. :) Dec 08 16:16:17 711 sek Dec 08 16:16:20 that's $374 USD Dec 08 16:16:32 ajbrun: I could've been more. Dec 08 16:16:35 it Dec 08 16:16:49 was the extra $74 on taxes/shipping? Dec 08 16:17:05 i mean in comparison to the advertised USD price Dec 08 16:17:12 ugh march :-( Dec 08 16:17:20 my poor nokia 7610 is not going to live that long Dec 08 16:17:38 unknown_lamer - i'm still on a nokia 3510i... Dec 08 16:17:44 i buy the advanced kit at ebay for 250 euros Dec 08 16:17:46 :) Dec 08 16:17:47 ajbrun: my phone has battle damage Dec 08 16:17:58 the camera was lost at a concert Dec 08 16:18:01 i haven't seen a neo on ebay yet Dec 08 16:18:04 the screen was scratched in a crash Dec 08 16:18:10 ajbrun: yes Dec 08 16:18:15 the keypad is nearly dead (again), the case is falling off, ... Dec 08 16:18:20 and who heard march, and where and for what? Dec 08 16:18:25 sometimes you found one at ebay Dec 08 16:18:27 ;9 Dec 08 16:18:27 topic! Dec 08 16:18:48 march :( Dec 08 16:18:52 I am a starving post-student and thus can't drop $300 for a gta01 and then another $450 for a gta02 a few months later Dec 08 16:19:06 know what you mean Dec 08 16:19:11 i was hoping to just get the one too Dec 08 16:19:20 I can drop $450 once every three or four years for a phone Dec 08 16:19:31 unknown_lamer it's christmas time Dec 08 16:19:32 ;D Dec 08 16:19:36 not good when it was advertised for october, then december, and now march Dec 08 16:19:55 ajbrun: welcome to opensouce world :-) Dec 08 16:19:57 curse you hardware bugs Dec 08 16:20:06 :p Dec 08 16:22:25 (Maybe March as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates Dec 08 16:22:31 march isn't mentioned on that link? Dec 08 16:39:35 I'm logging out now. Take care, guys. Dec 08 17:00:54 appart from the topic, does anyone have a source for the March prediction? Dec 08 17:01:14 if it's acurate, i have just get a gta01 now and sell it when the gta02 comes out Dec 08 17:05:54 no, assuming it's accurate would be very naive, no matter what the source is Dec 08 17:06:26 well, i'm just saying that the person who put it there must have had a reason to Dec 08 17:08:24 i probably meant reliable, not accurate anyway Dec 08 17:17:49 <_Krieger_> i ran openmoko in qemu. it loads (in console mode it says once sth like i have bad clock), and it stops when in window there are logo, "Please wait" and icons of BT, etc and battery indicator. Dec 08 17:17:56 <_Krieger_> what am i missing? Dec 08 17:20:42 _Krieger_: patience? Dec 08 17:21:06 <_Krieger_> it looks to be not able to run over a night Dec 08 17:21:48 well openmoko is said to be slow in qemu Dec 08 17:28:53 <_Krieger_> if anyone ran it in qemu, pease say what boot time you had Dec 08 17:30:43 * balrog-kun checks.. Dec 08 17:32:33 _Krieger_: 1:25 in qemu, 0:55 on Neo Dec 08 17:32:58 but that was measure nearly a year ago Dec 08 17:33:00 measured Dec 08 17:33:49 <_Krieger_> :( You have the subj machine really? then tell me: does it have a nice and usable console? :) Dec 08 17:35:04 there's a terminal emulator, which is an average terminal emulator, nothing special Dec 08 17:35:16 the on-screen keyboard is the one from GPE Dec 08 17:53:30 pft. First, phone-kit has 100%. Then, after killing neod by hand and restarting X, Task manager says I have two incomplete tasks, but can not list them. Dec 08 17:54:00 and I was only booting the phone, registering with the network and trying to set the date/time properly... Dec 08 17:54:46 *something* is looking way too often for /org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/calendar/file__home_root__moko_journal_ btw Dec 08 17:55:01 like >5 times per second Dec 08 17:59:38 and I can not help wondering which game the icon-with-pawn-and-card represents. Dec 08 18:00:02 but perhaps I'm not trained well enough, being a command-line person Dec 08 18:02:58 the calendar thingy stopped doing its thing, a while ago. Dec 08 18:03:30 still weird, since my calendar is absolutely empty (afaik, I didn't put anything in it) Dec 08 18:35:21 Anyone here use their Neo GTA01 to remotely administer servers via command line? I was planning to wait for the Wifi, but I figure that I'll use the internet so seldomly while mobile that there's no real need... I'm wondering if anyone else has real-world experience doing that... Dec 08 18:37:24 kdean06: The device is barely functional ATM - I don't think anyone can use it in any way one would consider "real-world" yet. Dec 08 18:38:23 kdean06: The on-screen keyboard would make command-line work tedious in the extreme, but there's no reason you couldn't ssh via the built-in terminal emulator, assuming you managed to get the network running via the GSM modem. Dec 08 18:38:58 kdean06: GPRS can (and often is) extremely laggy, so ssh over GPRS is no fun Dec 08 18:39:09 can be* Dec 08 18:41:19 Hrm... Dec 08 18:43:03 The OSK isn't a problem. I'm thinking more in terms of emergency work where "slow" is better than "nothing". If the Neo's "readiness" is anything comparable to the qemu image, then it's fine by me, I understand it's not a user-friendly rival to the iPhone but if the damn thing boots I can work with it. :) Dec 08 18:43:46 But the GPRS lag might be an issue. Dec 08 18:44:04 it... booots... and then some process munches up 100% CPU until you kill it. Dec 08 18:44:11 :) Dec 08 18:44:14 after that I seem to be fine Dec 08 18:44:49 No fear. :) I have practice doing that... I'm a Firefox user. Dec 08 18:45:13 gtk-gnash is a killer there. Dec 08 18:45:40 iceweasel can take the heat, apparently. no such issues here Dec 08 18:47:31 :) Dec 08 18:47:54 kdean06: For that purpose it would be fully usable, yeah Dec 08 18:47:54 I'm an Iceweasel user too but I've had to answer too many questions... Dec 08 18:48:39 Awesome, thanks. Dec 08 18:49:04 hehe. I already have to answer questions when ppl see my window manager Dec 08 18:49:26 I really think I just need an excuse to pull the trigger on a GTA01 rather than waiting till the 02 hits... Dec 08 18:49:32 What WM do you use? Dec 08 18:49:35 wmii Dec 08 18:49:42 I see. Dec 08 18:49:51 well, *when* will gta02 it. that can be your excuse! :) Dec 08 18:50:00 +h Dec 08 18:51:02 Sorry, I didn't understand that (and it wasn't the typo). Dec 08 18:51:04 * Kero wonders, if openmoko-messages2 can send text messages... can it receive them? Dec 08 18:51:21 kdean06: if you wait for gta02, how long will you have to wait? Dec 08 18:51:43 do you want to wait to "maybe march" or maybe august? Dec 08 18:51:45 That's the rub. :) At this moment, GTA02 is vaporware. :P It might NEVER come out. Dec 08 18:53:07 But at the same time, I don't "need" Moko. My phone is currently on it's last legs and I plan Moko to be it's replacement. But I'd be extremely pissed dropping that much money on a phone that's signifigantly better that is released 3 weeks later... Dec 08 18:53:47 Please ignore the inconsistant use of "Moko"... I'm aware it's the framework/toolkit and the Neo is the phone, but I assume you all know what i mean. :P Dec 08 18:56:03 of course, GTA01 is also significantly cheaper than 02 ;) Dec 08 18:57:11 I was under the impression that at the release that would change... What is the current understanding of the GTA02 price? Dec 08 18:57:46 my phone is ooold, but running nicely on a spare battery from a friend. Dec 08 18:58:08 But I do not think Neo runs even one day on its battery :( Dec 08 18:58:52 I have no display on mine. :) It's a Razr which has got to be the crappiest phone in existance from a reliablity standpoint... Both mine and my wife's had signifigant hardware failures in less than a year. Dec 08 19:02:44 moto lost its touch? mine is a Timeport, still going strong Dec 08 19:04:25 I've never been fond of Motorola's phones. Dec 08 19:04:36 Though I've never had problems this bad before. Dec 08 19:11:18 I was under the impression that at the release that would change... What is the current understanding of the GTA02 price? << according to the wiki, $450 for the base model Dec 08 19:11:35 though yesterday someone said $300 Dec 08 19:13:48 Yeah... Currently the 01 is $300. I recall reading that the 01 price would drop when 02 came out, and that 02 would sell for the same price that the 01 does now... Dec 08 19:13:54 kdean06: i've got a pebl that won't recharge anymore Dec 08 19:14:19 kdean06: meanwhile USD has fallen Dec 08 19:15:09 *had (?) Dec 08 19:15:26 so are there many GPA01 remaining at openmoko HQ? Dec 08 20:09:50 does anyone have a source for the march date in the topic? It mentions "as of last update", but the community update section does mention march at all? Dec 08 20:10:30 i mean doesn't obviously... Dec 08 20:10:42 From what I know it's pure speculation Dec 08 20:11:09 My personal estimation for the release date is before then Dec 08 20:11:51 problem is, i would like a new phone soon, but march does seem quite far away Dec 08 20:12:13 i don't want to get a gta01 now and to have the next version appear a week later Dec 08 20:13:57 i don't even know how much the gta01 would sell on ebay for once the next one's out. So many unknowns, but I guess there's no other way with things like this... Dec 08 20:14:56 My suggestion? Get a cheap phone on eBay that'll get you by until GTA02 comes out. Dec 08 20:15:05 well... Dec 08 20:15:17 it's not that i *need* a new phone i suppose Dec 08 20:15:25 more of "i'd like one" Dec 08 20:15:31 and "i'd like a neo" Dec 08 20:15:34 Ahh Dec 08 20:15:45 Well, then there's only the "wait for GTA02" option :) Dec 08 20:16:00 GTA01 is a mere developer preview Dec 08 20:16:09 You won't be happy with it in the long run Dec 08 20:17:01 i know, but i wouldn't call myself a non-developer either Dec 08 20:17:18 all depends on what's going to happen in the future which can't always be predicted Dec 08 20:19:57 abraxa_ - seems i'm not allowed to talk, but i know what you mean and i didn't take it the wrong way :) Dec 08 20:21:08 Okay Dec 08 20:46:16 THEN GO GET A NEO ADVANCED OFF EBAY SHURELY THERES SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO SELL Dec 08 20:46:35 BETTER YET BUY A NEW 1 Dec 08 20:46:41 ? Dec 08 20:46:54 please don't shout :) Dec 08 20:47:01 mee sorry Dec 08 20:47:51 I though capslock day was in october Dec 08 20:50:09 http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/?p=251 Dec 08 20:51:04 wiill gta02v5 correct this? Dec 08 20:51:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#850_MHz_band_not_supported_in_USA.2BCanada_.28e.g._comment_24_on_bug_.23256.29 Dec 08 20:51:44 Conversion of GTA02 to quad band would require major changes and so will not happen. Dec 08 20:52:00 i guess not Dec 08 20:52:29 you living in the US? Dec 08 20:52:39 linuxxr: Did you write that post? Dec 08 20:52:59 nope Dec 08 20:53:17 y i live in the us Dec 08 20:53:49 nah - don't think he wrote it abraxa_ Dec 08 20:54:00 linuxxr = brian Dec 08 20:54:04 yyup Dec 08 20:54:07 linuxxr: Ah okay. Yeah, the GTA02 won't have 850MHz support for now but it seems likely that there will be a different triband version of it released as well, including 850MHz support and dropping one of the other frequencies Dec 08 20:54:08 blogger = patrick Dec 08 20:54:20 y i didnt write it i FOUND it Dec 08 20:54:34 lol Dec 08 20:54:35 googled it Dec 08 20:54:40 it's like "finder keepers!" Dec 08 20:55:24 abraxa_: source for the "seems likely" part? Dec 08 20:55:47 so basicly the us prolly will follow later Dec 08 20:55:48 i think i read that too somewhere - can't remember where though Dec 08 20:56:23 mwester: One of the countless posts on community... I didn't save an URL I'm afraid. It was either Michael or roh who said it, I forgot Dec 08 20:56:33 y i think the us market would be HUGE Dec 08 20:56:34 There was speculation, but I have never seen any comment from FIC/Openmoko to followup in any way. Dec 08 20:56:47 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#850_MHz_band_not_supported_in_USA.2BCanada_.28e.g._comment_24_on_bug_.23256.29 <---- maybe in here? Dec 08 20:56:53 11/29/2007 - We would like to offer an 850/1800/1900MHz version of GTA02 for areas that need it. We are looking into whether this is feasible or not. This requires a number of changes (components, firwmare, calibration, etc.) and so is uncertain until we test it. Dec 08 20:57:13 The last was that they would look into converting the Euro triband to a NA triband, but they did not say anything to confirm if they were or were not going to do so. Dec 08 20:57:54 ajbrun: That's the post. There's been no follow up to say what the results of "looking into whether this is feasable or not" actually were. Dec 08 20:58:02 rgr Dec 08 20:58:06 ahh Dec 08 20:58:34 So at this time, in addition to not even knowning when the GTA02 is expected to ship, we don't even know if there will be a version of it that will work on this side of the planet. Dec 08 20:58:47 yup Dec 08 20:58:56 that does suck Dec 08 20:59:18 i'm sure they'd try get it sorted, if only to boost sales Dec 08 20:59:22 has anyone ever shot infrared fire/energy from eyes? do you know if i do it or learned how to do it? are my eyes dangerous for glasses (ex windows)? Dec 08 20:59:31 don't know how they could have overlooked something like this though Dec 08 20:59:35 And it's safe to say that there will be a delay measured in months, not weeks, from the GTA02 Euromoko device to a GTA02 NA device even if only due to FCC approvals. Dec 08 21:00:51 this is the first in a line of devices Dec 08 21:00:52 Meanwhile, in the real universe, the GTA01 is still awaiting power managment, implementation of a MUX for the GSM, and other basics. So I guess the GTA02 is rather a moot point, really. Dec 08 21:01:29 linuxxr: It's only a line of devices if the first ones are successful. FIC/Openmoko is a business. Dec 08 21:01:33 will gta02 be the same as release, or will they tweak it a little more first? Dec 08 21:01:40 or is that unknown at this stage? Dec 08 21:01:46 unknown Dec 08 21:01:54 y but with gta02v3 it gets unmooted Dec 08 21:02:01 No. Dec 08 21:02:13 gta02 is euro only. Dec 08 21:02:19 oo Dec 08 21:02:36 y sos we get the gta03 Dec 08 21:02:39 lolol Dec 08 21:02:59 y with even more bells an whistles Dec 08 21:03:09 dream on Dec 08 21:03:33 y so im dreaming Dec 08 21:03:42 mwester: I stand corrected then. Dec 08 21:03:58 dangle that worm Dec 08 21:04:07 * ajbrun is surprised linuxxr's "Y" button still works with the amount of use it gets :p Dec 08 21:04:17 the 1800/1900 side will always be the same in current design. Dec 08 21:04:31 the 900 part is what has to change to 850 for Americas version Dec 08 21:04:52 y Dec 08 21:04:59 this is relatively simple change - different component and then testing for compliance. Dec 08 21:05:04 its an old tribes habit Dec 08 21:05:20 what's old tribes? Dec 08 21:05:28 the testing is a lab IIRC - no big deal other than $$ Dec 08 21:05:28 Writchie: "relatively" being the key word there. Dec 08 21:05:41 starseige tribes an old game Dec 08 21:05:54 900 -> 850 normally not a problem unless the 900 was marginal to begin with. Dec 08 21:06:09 Oh, I agree that technically it's a no-brainer. Dec 08 21:06:30 then were good then correct? Dec 08 21:06:33 if i move my eyes does fire starts? or do i instant transmission some kind of fire energy so things can burn up? Dec 08 21:06:54 if it's such a small change, then why are they saying that they're looking into it etc? Surley it's yes or no if it's such a "no-brainer" Dec 08 21:07:07 That's the question indeed. Dec 08 21:07:11 thats correct Dec 08 21:07:18 you still have to source the parts and test Dec 08 21:07:29 whos got no brain Dec 08 21:07:40 so it's understandable that they aren't committed. Dec 08 21:07:48 noooo Dec 08 21:08:05 But what is #$^&*@#* unbelievable is that didn't they know it wasn't going to work quad band to begin with one year ago. Dec 08 21:08:08 well, i guess that can't say yes until they're certain i suppose Dec 08 21:08:17 no matter how likley it is Dec 08 21:08:33 that's mind bongling and no one has said yet - I @#$&*( up or she $@#$*(& up Dec 08 21:08:46 lolol Dec 08 21:08:47 ??? Dec 08 21:08:56 it seems like a game Dec 08 21:08:59 is this server sensored? Dec 08 21:09:04 I suspect there's also another concern. Somebody dropped the ball in a major way. So if it took them a year to figure out that it wasn't quad-band to begin with, I can see that they would be concerned abou the ability of whatever company did the design, and hence the mod to 850. Dec 08 21:09:19 that would be fic Dec 08 21:09:21 3 != 4 and san != si in chinese Dec 08 21:09:46 Writchie: Taiwanese mentality might play a role in this also Dec 08 21:09:48 I don't know that FIC designed it -- it's common to outsource everything. Dec 08 21:10:10 fic is a MAJOR mfg. Dec 08 21:10:12 Yeah, I've heard what abraxa_ is referring to in other matters. Dec 08 21:10:34 what's this? Dec 08 21:10:38 well I doubt FIC every screwed up a spec like this for NOKIA Dec 08 21:10:53 This is true. But then, NOKIA wouldn't let them get away with that. Dec 08 21:11:17 and given the design appears top shelf quality in other regards I suspect a communication screw up. Dec 08 21:11:32 you got one Writchie? Dec 08 21:11:35 I work with Motorola (vendor), and I know for a fact that if we ever screwed up like this, we'd be out of business -- Motorola wouldn't do business with us ever again, and because of that nobody else would either. Dec 08 21:11:46 ajbrun: one what? Dec 08 21:11:49 a neo Dec 08 21:11:52 no Dec 08 21:11:54 i have two Dec 08 21:12:00 lol Dec 08 21:12:01 how come? Dec 08 21:12:02 * mwester only has one. Dec 08 21:12:12 it's good to know the design is good anyway :) Dec 08 21:12:15 Writchie is privileged. :) Dec 08 21:12:20 * ajbrun has none :( Dec 08 21:12:27 that would be retail this is still project status Dec 08 21:12:33 because I was (an for the moment still am) serious about this - one is not enuf - i fully expected to fry one of them Dec 08 21:12:51 not going to sell up then :p Dec 08 21:13:11 Writchie: It would be interesting to find out what GSM frequencies China uses. The Neo was supposed to be a mainstream phone for China mainland so maybe the GSM part just wasn't changed Dec 08 21:13:17 software doesn't care about 4 bands Dec 08 21:13:27 No, but testing it does. Dec 08 21:13:31 China is 900/1800 Dec 08 21:13:53 There's not much I can do here to test anything that requires the GSM modem. :( Dec 08 21:14:15 mwester: no t-mobile? Dec 08 21:14:44 t-mobile, weak signal on the side of my desk nearest the window, on good days. Dec 08 21:15:04 i've been using tri-band (euro) GSM phones here for 8 years now Dec 08 21:15:17 To actually make a call, I need to take the devcie with me closer in towards Chicago. Dec 08 21:15:25 bummer Dec 08 21:15:27 wow Dec 08 21:15:45 for US you really have to have 850 unless you are in a prime t-mobile service area Dec 08 21:16:02 and then 1900 still sucks compared to low band Dec 08 21:16:27 1900 was intended as an overlay for dense areas - not primary coverage Dec 08 21:16:32 Yep. and even if you are in the urban jungle, coverage is often spotty. Works on one side of the restaraunt, not on the other sort-of-thing. Dec 08 21:16:41 the cell spacing economics suck for 1900 Dec 08 21:17:07 Ah, but its perfect for coverage of very dense small areas -- malls, airports, Dec 08 21:17:10 you need to build a network with lo-band and use 1900 for extra capacity in dense areas. Dec 08 21:17:28 (like every other block in Hong Kong or Helsinki) Dec 08 21:17:49 Exactly, that's why without 850, the fact that it has 1900 doesn't really make it better. Dec 08 21:18:24 the operator want you to have both 1900 and 850 so the channels can be off-loaded. Dec 08 21:18:40 its not fair to occupy the 850 channels when you are next to a 1900 tower Dec 08 21:18:52 and they can enforce this if they want to Dec 08 21:18:55 Hmm.. isn't there somewhere in NA where the operator uses both bands for call setup and the call itself? Dec 08 21:19:27 the MS goes where its told to go Dec 08 21:19:50 it will scan all enabled bands Dec 08 21:21:17 so will 850 mhz cause 900mhz to lagg or other problems interference? Dec 08 21:21:19 in Hong Kong I had a 30 minute commute to the country and never ever lost coverage - tunnels, between mountains, etc. Dec 08 21:21:56 the 850 and 900 versions must be different variants (parts only) with the current design AFAIK Dec 08 21:22:48 while the calypso can technically do quad band it only has one LNA for low-band and requires some funkies to do quad band. Dec 08 21:23:18 such funkies are not in the present layout/design Dec 08 21:23:48 more modern RF sections have 5 LNA's, 850/900/1800/1900/2100 Dec 08 21:24:03 what would happen if there is a hidden camera in my room or your room? Dec 08 21:24:09 thats wat we want Dec 08 21:24:37 and i've seen 7 Dec 08 21:24:53 jelousbuddy: ... eh? Dec 08 21:28:02 Stephmw: it's an annoy-bot, I think. Somebody with the permissions needs to ban it. Dec 08 21:28:20 are you stupid and is it cold and depressing outside when it has stopped snowing in January but snow is still on the ground? Dec 08 21:29:14 mwester: *sigh* Dec 08 21:29:29 is love depressing or how does it feel? Dec 08 21:29:48 * Writchie dusts off his ignore button Dec 08 21:29:57 good plan Dec 08 21:32:22 any sexy girls/sexy women/sexy females here? Dec 08 21:32:44 dude...you're on irc Dec 08 21:33:39 mkay...bot Dec 08 21:33:42 didn't see that Dec 08 21:33:51 21:30:32 Now ignoring 11jelousbuddy. Dec 08 21:34:38 hmm. Dec 08 21:38:39 am i in danger just by existing and being seen by others? Dec 08 21:40:36 can i be repetitive please? Dec 08 21:40:44 can i be repetitive please or do the same thing over and over? Dec 08 21:42:16 why do i feel about ladies down there? Dec 08 21:42:49 yooooo nooossssss its a cop-bot Dec 08 21:43:56 how many of you re really ignoring me? do you actually do it just not see what i do/say next? thank you Dec 08 21:49:20 interest bot Dec 08 21:50:36 is everything OK/alright? Dec 08 21:53:11 thank you :) Dec 08 21:56:31 tyay Dec 08 22:00:44 anybody that has taken a look at the contact db (how to edit it off the neo)? Dec 08 22:35:53 what is violent and threatening behavior? can jerking movement a fidgeting around counts? Dec 08 22:52:22 kinneh: afaik openmoko uses the same db-format as evolution Dec 08 23:14:57 anyone here with an OM server montone checkout of openembedded that is the stable version, not the bleeding edge version? Dec 08 23:15:09 (I need to check the contents of a file for a manual merge) Dec 08 23:22:28 http://buglabs.net/products Dec 08 23:23:17 those plugs proly break fast Dec 08 23:30:09 73 modules omg **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 09 02:59:56 2007