**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 09 02:59:56 2007
Dec 09 03:38:54 <|R> clear
Dec 09 03:38:55 <|R> oops
Dec 09 06:59:48 <X704> woch, they pushed the estimates back to march?
Dec 09 06:59:53 <X704> *woah
Dec 09 07:00:04 <SpeedEvil> aboout that.
Dec 09 07:00:30 <SpeedEvil> Currently the hardware has known bugs that mean they want to make a new revision.
Dec 09 07:00:55 <SpeedEvil> however, they have not as yet evaluated the wifi and other stuff that works adequately enough to commit to this new revision.
Dec 09 07:01:12 <SpeedEvil> to see if there need to be wifi or other hardware bugs fixed too.
Dec 09 07:01:48 <X704> ah, so it is not the software end as much as the hardware?
Dec 09 07:01:50 <SpeedEvil> After that's decided, the new revision gets built, a few tested internally, then more built, tested externally, and then finally it ships.
Dec 09 07:02:07 <SpeedEvil> Well - much of the delay in the first part is software.
Dec 09 07:02:23 <SpeedEvil> there are no video or wifi drivers in a state adequate to fully test the software
Dec 09 07:02:39 <SpeedEvil> but it's not the application software
Dec 09 07:02:39 <mwester> And of course, if you're looking for a phone that will work in North America, it's even further out.
Dec 09 07:03:36 <X704> I got to play around with openmoko/Neo1973 a bit... very fun :)
Dec 09 07:04:13 <X704> are they changing any of the general specs?
Dec 09 07:04:54 <X704> like maybe a slightly more battery or something?
Dec 09 07:05:16 <X704> s/a //g
Dec 09 07:05:17 <apt> X704 meant: like maybe slightly more battery or something?
Dec 09 07:05:34 <X704> woah, nice bot... lol :)
Dec 09 07:11:03 <SpeedEvil> yes, more, and more complex battery.
Dec 09 07:11:33 <SpeedEvil> Which is (IMO) of limited use. (the complexity)
Dec 09 07:12:57 <X704> SpeedEvil: I'm obviously ignorant... how can you make a battery more complex?
Dec 09 07:17:45 <ckuethe> in-package monitoring
Dec 09 07:18:19 <ckuethe> a "smart" battery that tries to tell you all about itself, rather than making you estimate capacity based on things like voltage, current and temperature
Dec 09 07:18:54 <X704> ah, so some electronics as part of the battery package
Dec 09 07:19:15 <ckuethe> well, more than the simple safety package
Dec 09 07:19:15 <X704> ok
Dec 09 07:19:22 <ckuethe> that'd be my guess...
Dec 09 07:24:49 <X704> final question... does march seem reasonable to actually come out? or will there be more delays?
Dec 09 07:25:12 <SpeedEvil> My objection is purely that you can get to within about 10% or better on battery life without the circuitry - which makes both the phone and the battery more expensive.
Dec 09 07:26:14 <SpeedEvil> Not to mention delaying the release.
Dec 09 07:26:37 <cheezo> IDENTIFY chiragjog
Dec 09 07:45:40 <CoreDump> that probably wasn't the most intelligent thing to do in a channel with 300+ people ;)
Dec 09 07:48:24 <infurnus> XD
Dec 09 07:56:53 <X704> CoreDump: are you talking to me? If so then why could that be?
Dec 09 07:57:30 <CoreDump> I was talking about cheezo
Dec 09 07:57:57 <X704> ah, ok :)
Dec 09 08:02:24 <infurnus> lol
Dec 09 09:56:12 <blindcoder> moin
Dec 09 10:10:14 <nadio> How mutch ram does openmoko have?
Dec 09 10:10:55 <madwoota> you mean the neo1973?
Dec 09 10:10:59 <nadio> Yes
Dec 09 10:11:08 <X704> lol
Dec 09 10:11:12 <nadio> ?
Dec 09 10:11:33 <madwoota> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
Dec 09 10:12:24 <nadio> Yes but I dont see any ram specification?
Dec 09 10:12:49 <madwoota> eh?
Dec 09 10:13:36 <nadio> memory, ram, not flash memory
Dec 09 10:14:18 <madwoota> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware#RAM
Dec 09 10:14:26 <zilux> nadio: 128Mb
Dec 09 10:14:32 <madwoota> which is a link off the first page
Dec 09 10:14:36 <madwoota> real hard to find too
Dec 09 10:14:52 <nadio> k thanks, sorry jus fast forwarded the specifications
Dec 09 10:15:17 <nadio> 128MB SDRAM can this be upgraded?
Dec 09 10:15:34 <madwoota> depends how good your sodlering skills are
Dec 09 10:15:38 <madwoota> soldering*
Dec 09 10:16:18 <nadio> So not by lego building.
Dec 09 10:16:31 <madwoota> probably not, no
Dec 09 10:24:01 <techindian> dear all, my ssh client takes around 50 to 60 secs to connect to openmoko. any reasons?
Dec 09 10:26:13 <SpeedEvil> ssh -V - or whatever the 'trace' option is?
Dec 09 10:26:21 <SpeedEvil> nameservice problems?
Dec 09 10:27:05 <techindian> OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep 2006
Dec 09 10:27:11 <techindian> debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
Dec 09 10:27:11 <techindian> debug1: Applying options for *
Dec 09 10:27:11 <techindian> debug1: Connecting to 192.168.68.2 [192.168.68.2] port 22.
Dec 09 10:27:11 <techindian> debug1: Connection established.
Dec 09 10:27:11 <techindian> debug1: identity file /home/k/.ssh/identity type -1
Dec 09 10:27:14 <techindian> debug1: identity file /home/k/.ssh/id_rsa type -1
Dec 09 10:27:16 <techindian> debug1: identity file /home/k/.ssh/id_dsa type -1
Dec 09 10:27:18 <techindian> debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version dropbear_0.49
Dec 09 10:27:20 <techindian> debug1: no match: dropbear_0.49
Dec 09 10:27:22 <techindian> debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0
Dec 09 10:27:24 <techindian> debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1
Dec 09 10:27:26 <techindian> debug1: An invalid name was supplied
Dec 09 10:27:28 <techindian> Cannot determine realm for numeric host address
Dec 09 10:27:30 <techindian> debug1: An invalid name was supplied
Dec 09 10:27:32 <techindian> A parameter was malformed
Dec 09 10:27:34 <techindian> Validation error
Dec 09 10:27:36 <techindian> debug1: An invalid name was supplied
Dec 09 10:27:38 <rwhitby> ~pastebin
Dec 09 10:27:38 <techindian> Cannot determine realm for numeric host address
Dec 09 10:27:38 <apt> [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
Dec 09 10:27:40 <techindian> debug1: An invalid name was supplied
Dec 09 10:27:44 <techindian> A parameter was malformed
Dec 09 10:27:46 <techindian> Validation error
Dec 09 10:27:48 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent
Dec 09 10:27:50 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received
Dec 09 10:27:52 <techindian> debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none
Dec 09 10:27:54 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Dec 09 10:27:54 <techindian> debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none
Dec 09 10:27:56 <techindian> debug1: sending SSH2_MSG_KEXDH_INIT
Dec 09 10:27:58 <techindian> debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEXDH_REPLY
Dec 09 10:28:00 <techindian> debug1: Host '192.168.68.2' is known and matches the RSA host key.
Dec 09 10:28:02 <techindian> debug1: Found key in /home/k/.ssh/known_hosts:1
Dec 09 10:28:04 <techindian> debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct
Dec 09 10:28:06 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent
Dec 09 10:28:07 <CoreDump> .....
Dec 09 10:28:08 <techindian> debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS
Dec 09 10:28:10 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received
Dec 09 10:28:13 <rwhitby> SpeedEvil: let's just hope it show's his password ...
Dec 09 10:28:14 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent
Dec 09 10:28:16 <techindian> debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received
Dec 09 10:28:18 <techindian> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password
Dec 09 10:28:20 <techindian> debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
Dec 09 10:28:22 <techindian> debug1: Trying private key: /home/k/.ssh/identity
Dec 09 10:28:23 <CoreDump> kick him
Dec 09 10:28:24 <techindian> debug1: Trying private key: /home/k/.ssh/id_rsa
Dec 09 10:28:26 <techindian> debug1: Trying private key: /home/k/.ssh/id_dsa
Dec 09 10:28:28 <techindian> debug1: Next authentication method: password
Dec 09 10:28:30 <techindian> root@192.168.68.2's password: 
Dec 09 10:28:32 <techindian> debug1: Authentication succeeded (password).
Dec 09 10:28:34 <techindian> debug1: channel 0: new [client-session]
Dec 09 10:28:36 <techindian> debug1: Entering interactive session.
Dec 09 10:28:38 <techindian> debug1: Sending environment.
Dec 09 10:28:39 <rwhitby> doh! no password.
Dec 09 10:28:40 <techindian> debug1: Sending env LANG = en_US.UTF-8
Dec 09 10:28:44 <techindian> sure..
Dec 09 10:28:53 <CoreDump> wtf dude
Dec 09 10:31:22 <SpeedEvil> are you sshing to the direct address, and does it respond to pings promptlly?
Dec 09 10:32:27 * CoreDump thinks this channel could use a few more ops
Dec 09 10:43:32 <ortalo> hello
Dec 09 11:27:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1106 has been created by cayco(AT)cayco.pl
Dec 09 11:27:02 <cdbot2> * * Clicking on "Missed calls" message interrupts panel
Dec 09 11:27:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1106
Dec 09 12:27:15 <AciD> hi
Dec 09 12:27:20 <ajbrun> lo
Dec 09 12:27:32 <infurnus> does anybody have an image for a treo 650?
Dec 09 12:27:35 <infurnus> or know where to download one
Dec 09 12:28:31 <ajbrun> http://www.news.com/i/ne/p/2004/treo650_340x719.jpg
Dec 09 12:28:33 <ajbrun> :p
Dec 09 12:28:34 <cjb_ie> palm.com? ;-)
Dec 09 12:28:46 <infurnus> XD
Dec 09 12:28:54 <infurnus> openmoko image*
Dec 09 12:29:00 <ajbrun> other than that, no :D
Dec 09 12:29:12 <Linux_Galore> lol
Dec 09 12:29:15 <infurnus> I've tried angstrom+opie
Dec 09 12:29:40 <Linux_Galore> infurnus: build it yourself
Dec 09 12:29:51 <AciD> hum, if I want to try openmoko on an ipaq hx4700, is there any howto out there ? I've seen their is some materials on http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?name=moko&action=search
Dec 09 12:30:54 <infurnus> i tried and received 404 error messages the folks at angstrom couldnt help much since hackndev hosts the file...hackndev are lame and never answer
Dec 09 12:30:59 <infurnus> or plain dont know
Dec 09 12:32:38 <AciD> ok got a link form the wiki, but http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/openmoko-running-on-an-ipaq seems to be down. Is there any other howto ?
Dec 09 12:55:51 <ortalo> anyone tried to compile openmoko-mediaplayer2 recently?
Dec 09 12:57:33 <abraxa_> ortalo: Got problems with that?
Dec 09 13:28:32 <ortalo> yes, no way to build mediaplayer2 (strange configure issues)
Dec 09 13:34:05 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03andrew * r3616 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (qemu-timer.h usb-linux-gadget.c vl.c): Add timer debugging helpers and an ugly hack with no other purpose than to make usb-gadgetfs work until we can switch to AIO.
Dec 09 13:34:37 <Sup3rkiddo> yay
Dec 09 13:34:47 * Sup3rkiddo make updates
Dec 09 13:35:01 <abraxa_> ortalo: Can you show me the output in a pastebin, please?
Dec 09 13:47:03 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: did it work?
Dec 09 13:47:30 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun: make updating
Dec 09 13:48:25 <balrog-kun> ok :)
Dec 09 13:53:28 <flexd> Hi.
Dec 09 13:53:45 <flexd> Do any of you got any experience with IDA pro? (the disassembler/debugger)
Dec 09 13:53:50 <flexd> err
Dec 09 13:54:01 <flexd> well yeah, same question, just posted in wrong chan :/
Dec 09 13:54:20 <balrog-kun> it's closed source and afaik you even have to pay to use it
Dec 09 13:54:39 * balrog-kun has played with it but never on my own computer
Dec 09 13:55:16 <flexd> balrog-kun: paying... is.. uhm... a choice :p
Dec 09 13:56:26 <balrog-kun> objdump is open-source and has a nicer output :)
Dec 09 13:56:32 <balrog-kun> a bit harder to learn
Dec 09 13:57:12 <flexd> I'm on windows
Dec 09 13:57:22 <flexd> and it's IDA related anyway (my question) :/
Dec 09 13:57:47 <balrog-kun> oh, another good thing about objdump is you don't need WINE to run it :)
Dec 09 13:58:26 <flexd> IDA runs on linux too
Dec 09 13:58:27 <flexd> natively
Dec 09 13:58:28 <flexd> afaik
Dec 09 13:59:15 <balrog-kun> hmm, then maybe not in the free trial version
Dec 09 13:59:23 <flexd> i have the linux binaries here anyway
Dec 09 13:59:25 <flexd> no source :/
Dec 09 13:59:28 <balrog-kun> it's still closed-source though
Dec 09 13:59:30 <balrog-kun> yeah
Dec 09 14:21:23 <abraxa_> flexd: What is your IDA question anyway?
Dec 09 14:27:15 <flexd> How do i get it to display functions?
Dec 09 14:27:47 <flexd> function names i mean, now it's all sub_XXXXXX, it has something to do with PDB symbols, which it's not loading :/
Dec 09 14:29:07 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone able to update the tree lately?, svn.berlios.de refuses any connection
Dec 09 14:29:56 <dinamich> Sup3rkiddo: I have the same problem!
Dec 09 14:30:18 <Sup3rkiddo> dinamich: oh, drat...am able to ping successfully
Dec 09 14:30:49 <dinamich> Sup3rkiddo: the http doesn't work either....
Dec 09 14:31:48 <Sup3rkiddo> hmm
Dec 09 14:31:53 <Sup3rkiddo> lets wait
Dec 09 14:36:59 <abraxa_> flexd: Oh, I can't answer that question, I'm afraid... I've only worked on programs without debugging symbols =x
Dec 09 14:39:16 <flexd> abraxa_: np, i think i've found a solution :)
Dec 09 14:42:50 <dinamich> Sup3rkiddo: I found solution to berlios.de svn problem :)...
Dec 09 14:43:38 <Sup3rkiddo> dinamich: lemme guess, change the makefile to some other server? or..
Dec 09 14:45:15 <dinamich>  Sup3rkiddo: sort of, the http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/bitbake/tags/bitbake-1.8.8 works for me right now!
Dec 09 14:46:20 <Sup3rkiddo> cool
Dec 09 14:46:23 <Sup3rkiddo> lemme try
Dec 09 14:46:23 <dinamich>  Sup3rkiddo: you have to change MokoMakefile in two places line 43 and 96
Dec 09 14:46:50 <Sup3rkiddo> dinamich: yup, thanks
Dec 09 14:59:05 <ahven> why does matchbox-panel crash so often?
Dec 09 14:59:26 <ahven> typically pretty in the start
Dec 09 15:14:58 <xcasex> rwhitby: ping
Dec 09 15:17:58 <xcasex> anyone else experiencing problems with mokomakefile and the berlios.de svn server?
Dec 09 15:18:26 * Sup3rkiddo raises his hands
Dec 09 15:19:18 <xcasex> Sup3rkiddo: hve any solutions in mind?
Dec 09 15:20:51 <Sup3rkiddo> dinamich: ^^
Dec 09 15:23:13 <Sup3rkiddo> xcasex: i guess you have some lines in Makefile, 43 and 96...but i am at a loss at what to do..thats what dinamich suggested which works for him...
Dec 09 15:31:40 <rwhitby> xcasex: whassup (but be aware it's 2am here, and I'm off to bed very soon)
Dec 09 15:33:43 <rwhitby> for those having problems with berlios - be aware there are separate update-openmoko, update-bitbake and update-openembedded subtargets - you can still call them (except the bitbake one) if berlios is down
Dec 09 15:35:34 <xcasex> Sup3rkiddo: aha.
Dec 09 15:36:04 <xcasex> rwhitby: the bitbake one is solveable by echanging svn:// with http://
Dec 09 15:39:57 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r170 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Changed berlios access protocol from svn:// to http://, and added an openmoko-toolchain target.
Dec 09 16:09:05 <xcasex> rwhitby: still awake or zoned out ?
Dec 09 16:09:32 <xcasex> rwhitby: the q. this time around is if youhave enabled qtopia building in that mokomakefile of yours :D
Dec 09 16:18:19 <CVirus> What's with the silence on the mailing lists today ?
Dec 09 16:21:32 <Motiv> Anyone know why svn.berlios.de is refusing connections?
Dec 09 16:24:37 <ahven> Motiv: use http
Dec 09 16:24:41 <ahven> instead of svn
Dec 09 16:24:47 <ahven> <CIA-23> openmoko: rwhitby * r170 mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Changed berlios access protocol from svn:// to http://, and added an openmoko-toolchain target.
Dec 09 16:52:25 <torpor> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Dec 09 16:52:29 <torpor> whats up wit this?
Dec 09 16:53:04 <borg_> torpor: update your makefile
Dec 09 16:53:10 <borg_> it changed from svn:// to http://
Dec 09 16:53:43 <torpor> borg_: i did make update-makfeile
Dec 09 16:53:48 <torpor> -e
Dec 09 16:53:55 <borg_> 16:39 < CIA-23> openmoko: rwhitby * r170 mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Changed berlios access protocol from svn:// to http://, and added an
Dec 09 16:54:00 <borg_> 16:39 < CIA-23> openmoko: rwhitby * r170 mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Changed berlios access protocol from svn:// to http://, and added an
Dec 09 16:54:09 <borg_> ups
Dec 09 16:54:28 <torpor> well its borked then
Dec 09 16:54:32 <Motiv> The Makefile has it as http://svn.berlios.de.....
Dec 09 16:54:53 <torpor> should it be svn?
Dec 09 16:55:04 <borg_> no
Dec 09 16:55:08 <borg_> imo thats right
Dec 09 16:56:03 <borg_> olaf@pc:/tmp$ ping svn.berlios.de
Dec 09 16:56:03 <borg_> PING svn.berlios.de (195.37.77.137) 56(84) bytes of data.
Dec 09 16:56:03 <borg_> 64 bytes from sheep.berlios.de (195.37.77.137): icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=31.0 ms
Dec 09 16:56:10 <torpor> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Dec 09 16:56:13 <torpor> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Dec 09 16:56:22 <torpor> just means that the http server is not set up to do svn.
Dec 09 16:56:26 <torpor> or is not willing to
Dec 09 16:56:33 <borg_> don't know
Dec 09 16:56:44 <borg_> i thougt the change from svn to http fixed it
Dec 09 16:56:46 <xcasex> http:// works when accessing it via svn. svn:// does not work 
Dec 09 16:57:00 <Motiv> http:// does not work for me
Dec 09 16:57:10 <torpor> svn does?
Dec 09 16:57:17 <Motiv> lemme try
Dec 09 16:58:03 <Motiv> no, same error
Dec 09 16:58:05 <xcasex> this wfm: ( svn co -r ${BITBAKE_SVN_REV} http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/bitbake/tags/bitbake-1.8.8 bitbake )
Dec 09 16:58:13 <xcasex> and thats from line 96 in the makefile
Dec 09 16:58:28 <torpor> so i guess berlios is borked then
Dec 09 16:59:19 <Motiv> That's what is says xcasex but it still kicks that error
Dec 09 17:00:22 <xcasex> eh. then berlios need some serious replumbing if random solutions are working for random people
Dec 09 17:00:50 <Motiv> only in IT can the same actions produce different results  :)
Dec 09 17:01:19 <CVirus> Any progress on the Wifi driver side ?
Dec 09 17:20:33 <MookiE_> hello, i have a problem. I have connect my neo to my pc and configure all to go to the internet with my neo (i test it with ping 141.1.1.1). In resolv.conf I write "nameserver 192.168.0.1" thats my router (the same entry is on my pc in resolv.conf). But if i want to ping "www.google.de" or something other always (after ~10 seconds) "Host name lookup failure"
Dec 09 17:24:33 <Motiv> torpor?
Dec 09 17:30:57 <Motiv> To fix the berlios.de connection refusal issue, BB_SVN_PATH needs to have a / added to the end so it looks like ->  BB_SVN_PATH := tags/bitbake-1.8.8/ 
Dec 09 17:32:51 <ahven> MookiE_: I use a regular DNS from my PC in Neo-s resolv.conf
Dec 09 17:33:03 <ahven> though I do have bind running in my machine :)
Dec 09 17:33:38 <MookiE_> how can I make that?
Dec 09 17:34:02 <ahven> cat /etc/resolv.conf on your machine :)
Dec 09 17:34:19 <ahven> and put that instead of 192.168.0.1
Dec 09 17:34:42 <MookiE_> i have the same resolv.con on my pc and on my neo
Dec 09 17:35:23 <PBeck> hi
Dec 09 17:35:41 <ahven> MookiE_: can you ping that from your Neo?
Dec 09 17:36:46 <MookiE_> ahven: no
Dec 09 17:37:04 <ahven> ok, so you have a problem there
Dec 09 17:37:09 <MookiE_> ahven: but now I'm confused... 
Dec 09 17:37:30 <MookiE_> ahven: why I can ping through the router and not ping the router?
Dec 09 17:38:00 <balrog-kun> maybe you have some strange iptables rules?
Dec 09 17:38:19 <MookiE_> on the router or on the neo?
Dec 09 17:38:33 <balrog-kun> on the pc
Dec 09 17:38:40 <balrog-kun> :)
Dec 09 17:38:44 <MookiE_> oh :)
Dec 09 17:38:53 <ahven> is forwarding enabled?
Dec 09 17:39:00 <MookiE_> yes
Dec 09 17:39:15 <balrog-kun> forwarding is enabled because MookiE_ could ping outside addresses
Dec 09 17:39:45 <ahven> <ahven> MookiE_: can you ping that from your Neo? << referred to the outside dns and he said no
Dec 09 17:40:05 <balrog-kun> that was the inside dns :P
Dec 09 17:40:10 <balrog-kun> as he's not using any outside dns
Dec 09 17:40:12 <MookiE_> the router is 192.168.0.1, thats inside
Dec 09 17:40:19 <ahven> ok
Dec 09 17:40:49 <MookiE_> sorry if i say that false or so... my english isn't very good
Dec 09 17:41:17 <MookiE_> balrog-kun: thats my iptables:
Dec 09 17:41:18 <MookiE_> kim@foobar:~$ sudo iptables -L
Dec 09 17:41:18 <MookiE_> Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
Dec 09 17:41:18 <MookiE_> target     prot opt source               destination         
Dec 09 17:41:18 <MookiE_> Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
Dec 09 17:41:18 <MookiE_> target     prot opt source               destination         
Dec 09 17:41:20 <MookiE_> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
Dec 09 17:41:22 <MookiE_> target     prot opt source               destination   
Dec 09 17:41:43 <MookiE_> there is nothing inside
Dec 09 17:41:49 <balrog-kun> that's not a lot of rules :p
Dec 09 17:42:08 <balrog-kun> but i don't know anything about iptables
Dec 09 17:42:21 <ahven> MookiE_: is your usb0 on your computer with an IP of 192.168.0.200 ?
Dec 09 17:42:36 <MookiE_> ahven: yes
Dec 09 17:42:40 <MookiE_> ahven: no
Dec 09 17:42:50 <MookiE_> ahven: sry ... no my pc has 0.20
Dec 09 17:43:02 <ahven> aha, the default gateway is off
Dec 09 17:43:13 <balrog-kun> oh, maybe you need to change the ip, that's likely two networks with the same ip
Dec 09 17:43:16 <MookiE_> ahven: sry... now I say shit
Dec 09 17:43:52 <balrog-kun> if all addresses in your LAN start with 192.168.0 then you need to make the usb network use some other addresses eg. 192.168.5
Dec 09 17:44:07 <MookiE_> ahven: forgot my answers... the usb0 ip on pc is .0.200 and there is no pc with 200 or 202 because my dhcp range is 50-100
Dec 09 17:44:50 <balrog-kun> but still, they must not match the mask of the other network, change to 192.168.1. on the usb0 neowork
Dec 09 17:45:04 <balrog-kun> 192.168.1.200 for pc and 192.168.1.202 for Neo
Dec 09 17:50:01 <MookiE_> now I cant ping anywhere
Dec 09 17:50:16 <MookiE_> just the .1.200 on my pc
Dec 09 19:08:56 <ahven> hmm, 7.dec rootfs and dialer still doesn't understand, when the other side has disconnected :(
Dec 09 19:24:23 <arnath> hi
Dec 09 19:24:52 <arnath> i live in belgium, if i buy the cellphone from the webshop, i'm guessing i have to pay a large transport fee?
Dec 09 19:25:15 <arnath> are there any europe-based stores?
Dec 09 19:25:23 <cjb_ie> will be for gta02 apparently
Dec 09 19:25:32 <cjb_ie> transport and customs for gta01
Dec 09 19:25:52 <arnath> ah k
Dec 09 19:27:28 <loufoque> oh
Dec 09 19:27:33 <arnath> march for gta02 sucks :< i've been waiting so damn long already :P
Dec 09 19:27:34 <loufoque> so "December" became "March"
Dec 09 19:27:42 <arnath> i would buy the dev version but i need the wifi
Dec 09 19:27:50 <loufoque> let's see how much time it takes for "March" to become "December" again
Dec 09 19:29:24 <arnath> how does openmoko handle locking the screen etc?
Dec 09 19:29:40 <arnath> (so you don't accidently push buttons when you put it in your pocket or to your ear) ?
Dec 09 19:30:39 <ahven> yep, works well enough, though the locking isn't "always on top"
Dec 09 19:31:05 <arnath> meaning?
Dec 09 19:31:06 <ahven> for example the incoming call screen is top of the locker
Dec 09 19:31:32 <El_Salvador> <arnath> march for gta02 sucks :< i've been waiting so damn long already :P
Dec 09 19:31:33 <El_Salvador> rumors
Dec 09 19:32:07 <borg_> 20:30 < ahven> yep, works well enough, though the locking isn't "always on top"
Dec 09 19:32:08 <arnath> El_Salvador: true, but it IS already december, so if there is no set date, it's more likely to be march then december
Dec 09 19:32:12 <borg_> ahven: that is a feature
Dec 09 19:32:13 <borg_> :)
Dec 09 19:32:29 <arnath> borg_: what does it mean? (the not always on top part)
Dec 09 19:32:56 <borg_> if you get a call, you dont want to unlock your phone first, before accepting/rejecting the call
Dec 09 19:33:03 <borg_> at least i don't want to
Dec 09 19:33:08 <El_Salvador> i know, arnath
Dec 09 19:33:17 <borg_> (and thats the behavior of all other phones i know ;) )
Dec 09 19:33:49 <ahven> true :)
Dec 09 19:33:52 <arnath> borg_: indeed, i have a phone that folds in 2 (if you know what i mean) and it's (imho) the best possible design for a phone :P
Dec 09 19:34:05 <El_Salvador> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957
Dec 09 19:34:05 <arnath> no locking needed, accept with open, etc... :)
Dec 09 19:34:28 <El_Salvador> another revision
Dec 09 19:35:07 <borg_> ahven: if you accept the call, the locker should be in foreground again and you can put it to your ear without triggering anything
Dec 09 19:35:42 <borg_> thats imo how it behaves at the momment
Dec 09 19:36:01 <ahven> borg_: nope
Dec 09 19:36:24 <ahven> the locker is still in the background
Dec 09 19:36:29 <ahven> just tried
Dec 09 19:36:58 <ahven> and the screen should be turned on as well imho?
Dec 09 19:37:54 <borg_> mh
Dec 09 19:38:11 <borg_> yes
Dec 09 19:40:33 <arnath> does it detect when the cellphone is tilted? (and tilt the screen to compensate) ?
Dec 09 19:40:59 <ahven> arnath: GTA02 will include 2 3D accelemometers
Dec 09 19:41:05 <ahven> 01 doesn't have them
Dec 09 19:41:28 <arnath> ah
Dec 09 19:43:05 <CVirus> Any progress on the Wifi driver side ?
Dec 09 19:58:55 <opo> is it possible to rum xmms on a neo?
Dec 09 19:59:02 <opo> run
Dec 09 19:59:04 <opo> ^^
Dec 09 19:59:14 <ajbrun> i'd guess so
Dec 09 19:59:35 <opo> k
Dec 09 20:00:20 <arnath> the gta02 will have 256 meg of built-in flash correct?
Dec 09 20:00:21 <Fatal> one of the xmms2 developers made a xmms2 client for the neo
Dec 09 20:00:31 <opo> ah ok
Dec 09 20:00:52 <opo> then i don't have to do this work ;D
Dec 09 20:00:56 <Fatal> but that's just to controll a remote xmms2 (unless you compile xmms2 for the neo and run it there)
Dec 09 20:01:15 <opo> ok
Dec 09 20:01:46 <Fatal> xmms1 probably won't make any sense to try and get running on the neo due to it's gtk+1 / glib dependency
Dec 09 20:02:00 <Fatal> s/it's/its/
Dec 09 20:02:00 <apt> Fatal meant: xmms1 probably won't make any sense to try and get running on the neo due to its gtk+1 / glib dependency
Dec 09 20:08:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1107 has been created by milo_casagrande(AT)yahoo.it
Dec 09 20:08:02 <cdbot2> * * Italian translation missing
Dec 09 20:08:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1107
Dec 09 20:11:55 <CVirus> Any progress on the Wifi driver side ?
Dec 09 20:12:40 <abraxa_> CVirus: What kind of progress are you expecting? WiFi works and the microdelay is now gone as well, so throughput should be okay also :)
Dec 09 20:13:11 <CVirus> abraxa_: microdelay ?
Dec 09 20:13:49 <abraxa_> The issue is fixed so no real point elaborating on it I don't think
Dec 09 20:14:01 <CVirus> I see
Dec 09 20:14:15 <CVirus> abraxa_: so when do we get to see the GTA02v5 ?
Dec 09 20:14:45 <abraxa_> The short version is that for each transfer there was a 30usec delay required to get dependable results - data throughput suffered as a consequence
Dec 09 20:15:11 <abraxa_> I'd be happy if I'd know that ;)
Dec 09 20:16:02 <CVirus> I read somewhere  on the wiki that the GTA02v5 should arrive as soon the wifi driver is ready
Dec 09 20:16:52 <zash> woot
Dec 09 20:17:42 <abraxa_> CVirus: Well... that is assuming that the WiFi works as intended
Dec 09 20:18:03 <abraxa_> The driver is required for testing, yes, but if errors show up it'll require a respin of the hardware
Dec 09 20:18:29 <MHazem> I understand
Dec 09 20:19:01 <arnath> ah, why does time pass so slow if you are counting the seconds :(
Dec 09 20:19:25 <abraxa_> arnath: That's because you are counting the seconds ;)
Dec 09 20:19:36 <arnath> :D
Dec 09 20:20:00 <arnath> i got a question -> it's running linux right? so i'm guessing you can just mount a folder over wifi, correct?
Dec 09 20:20:31 <abraxa_> NFS? sshfs? samba? Sure
Dec 09 20:21:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1108 has been created by milo_casagrande(AT)yahoo.it
Dec 09 20:21:01 <cdbot2> * * Italian translation of openmoko-browser is missing
Dec 09 20:21:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1108
Dec 09 20:21:06 * zash wants some smart syncronizing filesystem
Dec 09 20:21:15 * ajbrun too
Dec 09 20:21:19 <zash> something beween nfs and rsync
Dec 09 20:22:11 <arnath> one thing that bugs me a little bit is the worry that the 256 internal flash drive will be full very fast
Dec 09 20:22:29 <ahven> you can expand the capasity with minisd :)
Dec 09 20:22:31 <abraxa_> 256mb?
Dec 09 20:22:41 <abraxa_> There's 265mb ram, not flash
Dec 09 20:22:44 <arnath> ahven: yes, but if you are installing a lot of programs on it, even if it's small,...
Dec 09 20:22:48 <arnath> abraxa_: o, then i read wrong
Dec 09 20:22:52 <arnath> abraxa_: how much flash?
Dec 09 20:23:05 <mjr> umm, there's 128 MB ram, 256 MB flash (GTA02)
Dec 09 20:23:12 <abraxa_> Oh
Dec 09 20:23:17 <abraxa_> Okay, yeah
Dec 09 20:23:20 <abraxa_> *I* read wrong :)
Dec 09 20:23:42 <arnath> won't that fill up awefully fast if you are installing a bunch of programs?
Dec 09 20:23:46 <mjr> it helps a bit that the flash is compressed, and is certainly an improvement over gta01's 64 M
Dec 09 20:24:08 <cjb_ie> nobody will need more than 640k ;)
Dec 09 20:24:09 <mjr> anyway, as ahven incorrectly said, there are microSD
Dec 09 20:24:32 <ahven> my mistake :)
Dec 09 20:25:20 <arnath> mjr: yes true, but the microsd are not really an option for installing additional programs right?
Dec 09 20:25:27 <arnath> they are however very nifty for files of course :P
Dec 09 20:26:12 <ajbrun> 256 isn't much for programs, unless i've understood it wrong
Dec 09 20:26:14 <ajbrun> or is it?
Dec 09 20:26:19 * cjb_ie still remembers the days of swapping floppy disks to run different parts of a program
Dec 09 20:26:34 <arnath> cjb_ie: hehehe :)
Dec 09 20:26:45 <zash> ajbrun: there is coda fs and andrew fs, but i havent succeded in setting up any of those
Dec 09 20:26:49 <abraxa_> ajbrun: 256mb is quite plenty in my opinion as the big data will reside on microSD anyways
Dec 09 20:26:50 <mjr> ajbrun, it's more than you'd think, and why are microsd not an option?
Dec 09 20:27:34 <ajbrun> i don't know - i thought the MSD was for files, and the flash for programs, and the ram for the OS?
Dec 09 20:27:36 <mjr> it's suboptimal to install to microsd mostly if you're going to be card-swapping, but that isn't very pleasant to do anyways...
Dec 09 20:27:39 <ajbrun> noooo
Dec 09 20:27:42 <ajbrun> not ram for os
Dec 09 20:27:43 <ajbrun> lol
Dec 09 20:27:55 <ajbrun> that would be a bit silly...
Dec 09 20:28:09 <mjr> storage is storage is storage
Dec 09 20:28:20 <ajbrun> fair enough :)
Dec 09 20:28:37 <mjr> ipkg supports installing programs to alternate locations (and symlinking them to the root fs for easy access)
Dec 09 20:28:47 <ahven> ipkg-link
Dec 09 20:28:54 <ahven> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Package_management
Dec 09 20:28:55 <ahven> there
Dec 09 20:29:44 * hhf423 yawns
Dec 09 20:35:29 <borg_> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/06/seagate-snubs-linux
Dec 09 20:35:37 <borg_> As our reader points out this is a, "fairly shit idea perfectly implemented, "
Dec 09 20:35:38 <borg_> lol :)
Dec 09 20:37:04 <opossum> hehe
Dec 09 20:50:55 <hhf423_> should a build from dec 7 do SMS already?
Dec 09 20:53:27 <ajbrun> hhf423 - i've never used a neo, but from what i've heard, its yes
Dec 09 20:54:13 <hhf423> so lets see
Dec 09 20:54:22 * hhf423 does the flashing dance
Dec 09 20:57:06 * cjb_ie averts his eyes
Dec 09 20:57:28 * hhf423 just realized how that sounds...
Dec 09 20:57:32 <XXLT> any information how long the batterie will last?
Dec 09 20:57:43 <ajbrun> not very long atm
Dec 09 20:57:48 <hhf423> XXLT: with or without power management?
Dec 09 20:58:05 <ahven> root@fic-gta01:/usr/bin$ ./scummvm
Dec 09 20:58:05 <ahven> -sh: ./scummvm: not found
Dec 09 20:58:05 <ahven> root@fic-gta01:/usr/bin$ ls -la scummvm
Dec 09 20:58:05 <ahven> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root      4986216 Aug 15 13:34 scummvm
Dec 09 20:58:07 <ahven> strange? :)
Dec 09 20:58:10 <hhf423> at the moment 4-5 hours
Dec 09 20:58:29 <XXLT> 21:58:11 < fn'hhf423> at the moment 4-5 hours
Dec 09 20:58:32 <ajbrun> any predictions on how long it might run in the future?
Dec 09 20:58:40 <XXLT> i guess you mean "days"
Dec 09 20:58:48 <ajbrun> he doesn't
Dec 09 20:58:55 <ajbrun> he meant what he said
Dec 09 20:59:01 <hhf423> at the moment there is no real poer management
Dec 09 20:59:31 <XXLT> pfff
Dec 09 20:59:44 <hhf423> once there is power management, I expect it to run for a week on standby, depending on how you run BT, GPS and so on
Dec 09 20:59:56 <edistar> hhf423: serious? that long?
Dec 09 21:00:24 <arnath> is there a mailing list with updates?
Dec 09 21:00:28 <hhf423> edistar: why not? standby with no backlight and nothing to do?
Dec 09 21:00:34 <edistar> hhf423: ok, maybe
Dec 09 21:00:44 <edistar> hhf423: but I think the screen when lit will use a lot of power
Dec 09 21:01:14 <XXLT> i have to carry around a car battery on my back
Dec 09 21:02:00 <hhf423> edistar: sure, but I have had other phones with like specs and they can do two days with "normal" use no problem
Dec 09 21:02:34 <opo> for example the iphone
Dec 09 21:02:36 <opo> :)
Dec 09 21:02:42 <edistar> hhf423: ok :)
Dec 09 21:03:00 <hhf423> oooh!
Dec 09 21:03:20 <hhf423> wow, there is now GSM status messages in the top left corner
Dec 09 21:03:28 <hhf423> bloody cool
Dec 09 21:04:35 <XXLT> well, i realy wanted to purchase that phone
Dec 09 21:04:48 <XXLT> but regarding the batterie life and the topic :/
Dec 09 21:05:45 <edistar> XXLT: in about half a year a lot of stuff will work probably..
Dec 09 21:06:10 <XXLT> that would be cool
Dec 09 21:06:19 <ajbrun> all depends WHEN you want to buy this phone
Dec 09 21:06:31 <XXLT> asap :)
Dec 09 21:06:34 <hhf423> you want to but GTA01 or GTA02?
Dec 09 21:06:46 <XXLT> GTA02, for sure
Dec 09 21:06:51 <arnath> i want gta02 as well :|
Dec 09 21:06:53 <edistar> XXLT: me too, I think loads of people are waiting for the gta02
Dec 09 21:07:00 <arnath> i need the wifi 
Dec 09 21:07:04 <XXLT> me, too
Dec 09 21:07:11 <edistar> me too ;)
Dec 09 21:07:18 <edistar> well... it's very handy
Dec 09 21:07:21 <ajbrun> i don't know if anyone knows that the march date in the topic is all that accurate XXLT, so it could be feb perhaps
Dec 09 21:07:46 <arnath> ajbrun: i rather not get my hopes up :<
Dec 09 21:07:52 <XXLT> it was supposed to be october actually
Dec 09 21:07:58 <ajbrun> and then dec
Dec 09 21:08:10 <arnath> i know..
Dec 09 21:08:14 <ajbrun> which is why i'm hoping it's earlier
Dec 09 21:08:14 <edistar> stay positive.. it could be feb
Dec 09 21:08:25 <ajbrun> since it doesn't seem to be an official release guess
Dec 09 21:08:28 <ajbrun> only speculative
Dec 09 21:08:47 <XXLT> and what about this "top-secret-phone"?
Dec 09 21:08:53 <XXLT> i read something
Dec 09 21:08:59 <edistar> XXLT: that was dash
Dec 09 21:08:59 <ajbrun> ?
Dec 09 21:09:05 <edistar> XXLT: dash.net I think
Dec 09 21:09:10 <ajbrun> what's this?
Dec 09 21:09:12 <abraxa_> ahven: Are you sure the scummvm you installed is ARM OABI? sh also reports files as "not found" when it simply can't execute the binary format
Dec 09 21:09:30 <abraxa_> EABI*
Dec 09 21:10:06 <XXLT> dash, no.
Dec 09 21:10:31 <edistar> XXLT: what do you mean then?
Dec 09 21:10:42 <edistar> XXLT: there is project X, but thats software I think
Dec 09 21:11:05 <XXLT> i can't remember the name of that device
Dec 09 21:11:32 <XXLT> but it was another phone developed by fic
Dec 09 21:11:41 <edistar> XXLT: the only thing I know was that there was some codename for a device
Dec 09 21:11:52 <edistar> XXLT: that turned out to be the dash in the end..
Dec 09 21:12:02 <mmontour> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
Dec 09 21:12:03 <edistar> built by FIC
Dec 09 21:12:13 <XXLT> HIXD8, that it is!
Dec 09 21:12:13 <opo> <XXLT> but it was another phone developed by fic <-- do you have a link or something else?
Dec 09 21:12:18 <edistar> that is the dash..
Dec 09 21:12:21 <opo> ah k
Dec 09 21:16:29 <ahven> abraxa_: you were right, had to execute openmoko-scummvm :)
Dec 09 21:18:14 <_Krieger_> people say OM has battery that can hold it for less than 24 hours. but what is exact max uptime?
Dec 09 21:18:29 <ahven> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Scummvm
Dec 09 21:18:37 <edistar> _Krieger_: someone once said 24 hours..
Dec 09 21:18:56 <_Krieger_> is it going to be enhanced?
Dec 09 21:19:01 <edistar> _Krieger_: definitely
Dec 09 21:19:07 <ahven> openmoko-scummvm is just a little wrapper for the AUX button, but still, it doesn't sai anything special about running it..
Dec 09 21:19:10 <edistar> _Krieger_: at the moment there is no power management
Dec 09 21:19:38 <edistar> _Krieger_: so once that is implemented battery life will improve at least 2-3x
Dec 09 21:19:38 <ahven> /s/say/sai
Dec 09 21:21:19 <hhf423> when I want to send an SMS, I get "WARNING **: Error sending message: Unable to retrieve subscriber number"
Dec 09 21:21:39 <arnath> hhf423: it's a feature :|
Dec 09 21:23:47 <tuxi> hi
Dec 09 21:24:02 <opo> hi
Dec 09 21:25:22 <tuxi> anyone with a neo is planning to visit the ccc?
Dec 09 21:26:06 <hhf423> when I want to send an SMS, I get "WARNING **: Error sending message: Unable to retrieve subscriber number" anyone know if I need to configure something somewhere?
Dec 09 21:26:07 <edistar> anyone with a neo planning to go to FOSDEM?
Dec 09 21:26:24 <hhf423> edistar: why? do publicly burn it?
Dec 09 21:26:45 <edistar> hhf423: no, but I'd like to see it in real:)
Dec 09 21:26:59 <hhf423> edistar: where is FOSDEM and when?
Dec 09 21:27:12 <edistar> hhf423: february in brussels
Dec 09 21:27:20 <tuxi> same for me
Dec 09 21:27:56 <hhf423> tuxi: there will be plenty of people on the CCCongress with a Neo
Dec 09 21:28:19 <tuxi> yeha, there are thoose 5 minute talks
Dec 09 21:28:28 <tuxi> would be a great thing to present the neo there
Dec 09 21:28:31 <hhf423> I'll be there and I might bring my Neo, but I assume that Harald and others will also be there. Some of the guys live in Berlin. roh, too
Dec 09 21:29:26 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03ortalo * r3617 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/src/calc-main.c: Simple modif. for svn commit test.
Dec 09 21:29:29 <tuxi> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2007/Lightning_Talks
Dec 09 21:30:18 <tuxi> btw. hows the german openmoko chan?
Dec 09 21:30:26 <tuxi> i mean how is it called
Dec 09 21:31:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1109 has been created by milo_casagrande(AT)yahoo.it
Dec 09 21:31:01 <cdbot2> * * Translations for openmoko-today are not possible
Dec 09 21:31:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1109
Dec 09 21:31:08 <edistar> tuxi: neo1973-germany
Dec 09 21:31:13 <tuxi> ah thx
Dec 09 21:31:13 <edistar> tuxi: cu there ;)
Dec 09 21:33:27 <zash> hm, is there a swedish channel too?
Dec 09 21:34:44 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03ortalo * r3618 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Update to separate LINGUAS file like other applications.
Dec 09 21:35:28 <ahven> abraxa_: so why does scummvm run in the scaredycat builds? any idea on that?
Dec 09 21:35:36 <ahven> the kernel is the same
Dec 09 21:37:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1110 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de
Dec 09 21:37:01 <cdbot2> * * Sending SMS gives unable to retrieve subscriber number error
Dec 09 21:37:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1110
Dec 09 21:38:45 <abraxa_> ahven: How did you build it?
Dec 09 21:38:55 <ahven> I didn't
Dec 09 21:39:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1111 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de
Dec 09 21:39:01 <cdbot2> * * Incoming SMS is not displayed or notified
Dec 09 21:39:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1111
Dec 09 21:39:06 <ahven> http://buildhost.automated.it/scummvm/
Dec 09 21:42:03 <abraxa_> ahven: Did you use the ipkg?
Dec 09 21:42:17 <ahven> yes
Dec 09 21:42:24 <ahven> ipkg install filename
Dec 09 21:44:00 <abraxa_> No idea then
Dec 09 22:02:23 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03ortalo * r3619 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/ (Makefile.am autogen.sh configure.ac): 
Dec 09 22:02:23 <CIA-23> openmoko: Reverting previous change due to strange things with intltoolize
Dec 09 22:02:23 <CIA-23> openmoko: generated .in files when packaging (distcheck and co.)
Dec 09 22:15:34 <hhf423> hmm, the feed reader is bloody fast
Dec 10 00:15:09 <lokpest> any guess when a Neo1973 with 3G will be out?
Dec 10 00:16:39 <MrSkittle> MARCH???
Dec 10 00:16:48 <abraxa_> lokpest: I couldn't put my bets on 2008 :)
Dec 10 00:17:57 <lokpest> abraxa_: so mabye, 2009 or 2010? :)
Dec 10 00:18:29 <abraxa_> 2009 sounds doable imo but we'll see what the management decides
Dec 10 00:19:07 * lokpest doesnt understand why 3G was opted out
Dec 10 00:19:52 <abraxa_> It wasn't opted out
Dec 10 00:20:11 <abraxa_> It just wasn't part of the initially targeted audience
Dec 10 00:23:37 <lokpest> well, fucking europe seems lika a smart plan
Dec 10 00:23:39 <lokpest> not!
Dec 10 00:25:18 <abraxa_> huh?
Dec 10 00:26:09 <lokpest> I cant use a phone without 3G
Dec 10 00:26:16 <abraxa_> Why not?
Dec 10 00:26:45 <lokpest> my operator dont suport phones that dont handle 3G
Dec 10 00:27:40 <lokpest> see?
Dec 10 00:27:54 <abraxa_> It's a regular GSM phone
Dec 10 00:28:01 <abraxa_> I don't see what's there not to support
Dec 10 00:28:16 <ljp> 2.5g != 3g
Dec 10 00:28:44 <lokpest> well my company says if the phone does not have 3G i cant use it in their network
Dec 10 00:29:40 <mjr> yeah there are those companies
Dec 10 00:29:57 <mjr> but that's not the same as "fucking europe"
Dec 10 00:30:10 <mjr> you'd have to pick a provider supporting GSM, obviously
Dec 10 00:30:33 <lokpest> no, obv there is urgent need for a neo1973 with 3G
Dec 10 00:30:49 <lokpest> well, my company is the best company in sweden
Dec 10 00:31:00 <lokpest> (part from this detail)
Dec 10 00:31:13 <lokpest> switching company isnt really an option
Dec 10 00:31:17 <mjr> (the issue for some of the 3G providers is that they don't have their own GSM networks, so use roaming for the GSM fallback, and they  don't want you to roam all the time 'cause it costs them)
Dec 10 00:31:40 <mjr> Well then neo1973 is not an option for you. Too bad.
Dec 10 00:31:56 <mjr> there is an "urgent" need for everything at once, yes, but that's not sadly how things work
Dec 10 00:36:06 <lokpest> does openmoko work well on other hardware?
Dec 10 00:36:28 <Aria> Define 'well'
Dec 10 00:36:51 <lokpest> i dunno
Dec 10 00:37:09 <lokpest> workd for someone thats not a programmer
Dec 10 00:37:25 <mjr> does it work that well on any platform?
Dec 10 00:38:56 <lokpest> making proprietary software should be a criminal offense
Dec 10 00:40:08 <mjr> coming in with little to no clue and falsely throwing around accusations like "fucking europe" shouldn't, but it might be discouraged
Dec 10 00:42:20 <lokpest> ok, sorry
Dec 10 00:42:34 <lokpest> but I want a free software phone
Dec 10 00:43:08 <mjr> yes, pretty much all of us
Dec 10 00:43:13 <lokpest> MY PHONE IS EVIL I DONT WANT AN EVIL PHONE
Dec 10 00:43:20 <mickeyl> we all want. Neo1973 is not there yet, but the best bet we have
Dec 10 00:43:54 <mickeyl> unless other hardware vendors start releasing open devices
Dec 10 00:43:54 <mjr> and certainly the neo1973 is and will be a compromise to many, but have to start somewhere, and the ubiquituous gsm makes a good starting point
Dec 10 00:45:05 <alphaone> mickeyl: At least Motorola doesn't seem to like open :-(
Dec 10 00:45:20 <mickeyl> alphaone: yes. no way with Moto
Dec 10 00:45:23 <alphaone> I had a look at my RAZR2V8 this weekend.
Dec 10 00:45:42 <alphaone> Signed kernel, signed bootloader and most of the rootfs
Dec 10 00:45:47 <mickeyl> "fun"
Dec 10 00:46:11 <alphaone> And some sort of security model on the kernel so you can't just mount stuff/change important files...
Dec 10 00:46:19 <mjr> (but it does seem to me that if you DONT WANT AN EVIL PHONE in all caps it's pretty funny that something like picking the operator that spesifically doesn't support GSM phones is the deciding factor :] )
Dec 10 00:46:44 <mjr> ('scuse me, I'm being a bit of a prick)
Dec 10 00:46:45 <ljp> i would bet its not only moto, but the operators that dictate 'opennedd'
Dec 10 00:46:50 <ljp> openness
Dec 10 00:47:12 <mickeyl> well, FIC does something that could have been done since a bunch of years
Dec 10 00:47:15 <alphaone> ljp: Yeah, well still sucks
Dec 10 00:47:24 <mickeyl> if Moto would have wanted
Dec 10 00:47:26 <mickeyl> they could have done it
Dec 10 00:47:31 <mickeyl> same for others
Dec 10 00:47:35 <mjr> yeah
Dec 10 00:48:03 <ljp> and not sold phones to the operators
Dec 10 00:48:07 <alphaone> mickeyl: But they're so cozy cuddling with the operators
Dec 10 00:48:11 <ljp> which means less linux phones
Dec 10 00:48:25 <mickeyl> i don't think so
Dec 10 00:48:34 <mickeyl> you don't need to market it
Dec 10 00:48:40 <mickeyl> but you can make it possible for people to tinker
Dec 10 00:48:44 <mickeyl> without jumping through hoops
Dec 10 00:48:59 <alphaone> True..
Dec 10 00:49:11 <alphaone> And they went to some lengths with the razr2
Dec 10 00:49:18 <ljp> operator branding is where the big $$ is
Dec 10 00:49:28 <mickeyl> well
Dec 10 00:49:30 <mickeyl> good for FIC
Dec 10 00:49:43 <alphaone> And I'd be willing to bet that JTAG there is also restricted
Dec 10 00:49:44 <mickeyl> means we won't see any alternatives soon
Dec 10 00:49:45 <ljp> agreed
Dec 10 00:50:18 <mjr> bad for us, I'd like not being dependent on FIC's committment, solid as that's been so far
Dec 10 00:50:43 <mickeyl> well
Dec 10 00:50:45 <alphaone> This weekend I was really upset that there is nothing against tivoization in GPLv2
Dec 10 00:50:55 <mjr> but can't really see any reasonably open phones coming out of eg. the android camp very likely
Dec 10 00:51:19 <mjr> oops, the A word
Dec 10 00:51:19 <ljp> android will be business as usual 
Dec 10 00:51:23 <mickeyl> so lets hope gta02 sells really well and we will see a sexy 3G phone in 2009
Dec 10 00:51:49 <mjr> mickeyl, indeed. Just do those and I'll buy them both, and continue plugging them around here
Dec 10 00:52:52 <mjr> oh yeah, I forgot to post my presentation slides to the community list. Ah well, limited audience, as they're Finnish anyway.
Dec 10 00:53:07 <mjr> also there was a linux podcast on openmoko, maemo and shit
Dec 10 01:01:14 <mickeyl> bed time
Dec 10 01:01:15 <mickeyl> g'night
Dec 10 01:21:15 <Varox_NB> hello
Dec 10 01:23:50 <jeremymcHome> I just got my moko and I reflashed to Qtopia and have been unsuccessful at making calls on Rogers in Canada.  
Dec 10 01:24:03 <jeremymcHome> I couldn't make  any calls on 2007.11 either
Dec 10 01:24:17 <jeremymcHome> What am I missing?  Obviously the calls ehehe
Dec 10 01:25:23 <mjr> do you get 1900 MHz signal there, as the 850 MHz band was lacking?
Dec 10 01:25:37 <mjr> see if registering on the network via libgsmd-tool works
Dec 10 01:25:38 <ljp> do you know if have a usim?
Dec 10 01:27:35 <jeremymcHome> ooo these are all questions I am not sure I can answer at this point. 
Dec 10 01:27:49 <Writchie> jeremycmHome: ok - how about Rogers where?
Dec 10 01:27:56 <jeremymcHome> those key words will help me with the magical google. 
Dec 10 01:27:57 <jeremymcHome> Ottawa
Dec 10 01:28:03 <jeremymcHome> Capital city ;-)
Dec 10 01:34:53 <jeremym1> Ya. A guy I know that has one in ott as well says he has been successful in making calls on his. 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 10 02:59:57 2007