**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 29 02:59:56 2007
Dec 29 04:33:37 <preppay> any updates with OpenMoko on the treo?
Dec 29 10:14:11 <raddy> Hello Everybiody
Dec 29 10:14:40 <raddy> How to restart a task in openmoko build?
Dec 29 10:21:48 <raddy> Anybody there???
Dec 29 10:24:47 <sbeh> no.
Dec 29 10:27:28 <zilux> raddy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile#Build_issues
Dec 29 10:57:44 <raddy> zilux : how to find out failing package name??
Dec 29 10:59:17 <zilux> usually it is displayed
Dec 29 10:59:40 <raddy> ohh
Dec 29 11:00:35 <zilux> personnaly when something fails, I simply restart the whole sequence
Dec 29 11:00:40 <zilux> a little bit later...
Dec 29 11:02:23 <zilux> hoping a kind mind has solve the issue upstream ;-)
Dec 29 11:06:51 <zilux> atm, the build breaks on: 
Dec 29 11:07:05 <zilux> ERROR: No providers of build target u-boot-openmoko
Dec 29 11:24:25 <SpeedEvil> Is this the 'make openmoko -devel-image'?
Dec 29 11:33:12 <zilux> in running: make update-makefile && make setup update openmoko-devel-image
Dec 29 11:33:31 <zilux> this command fails: bitbake openmoko-devel-image u-boot-openmoko
Dec 29 11:33:44 <zilux> name mismatch
Dec 29 11:35:57 <goxboxlive> hi SpeedEvil 
Dec 29 11:36:33 <goxboxlive> I have the gps running but i cant get i fix. I am running roadmap in Qtopia but missing the fix.
Dec 29 11:36:53 <SpeedEvil> does it show a fix in NMEA?
Dec 29 11:37:41 <SpeedEvil> Before a fix, it outputs stuff like $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,3.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0070199,*54
Dec 29 11:37:57 <goxboxlive> SpeedEvil: exactly
Dec 29 11:37:59 <SpeedEvil> After: $GPGGA,141054.00,5611.888041,N,00310.425829,W,1,10,0.5,147.0,M,0.188001,M,0.0100
Dec 29 11:38:21 <goxboxlive> I dont get that far. it gives me A1.......................................... not A3 as for after the fix
Dec 29 11:38:50 <SpeedEvil> I mean the raw NMEA output. And are you outdoors?
Dec 29 11:39:07 <goxboxlive> SpeedEvil: no, i down in my basement :-) 
Dec 29 11:39:29 <goxboxlive> i have also tested outdoor, but havent been out for long enough i guess. (5 min)
Dec 29 11:40:41 <SpeedEvil> 5 min should be enough for a fix.
Dec 29 11:40:55 <SpeedEvil> There are several people who apparently have non-working GPSs
Dec 29 11:41:34 <goxboxlive> ok, so there might be some hardware stuff then
Dec 29 11:41:44 <SpeedEvil> possibly, yes
Dec 29 11:41:47 <goxboxlive> mine is new though, should work
Dec 29 11:43:39 <SpeedEvil> I should have kept notes on who was having problems.
Dec 29 11:46:05 * Sup3rkiddo raises his hands
Dec 29 11:46:11 <Sup3rkiddo> for a non working gps
Dec 29 11:49:12 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: that sucks
Dec 29 11:49:25 <balrog-kun> is the gps silent or only doesn't ever get a fix?
Dec 29 11:50:06 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, yup still at A1.....mostly give up after 10 minutes...running gllin/gllin just works right?
Dec 29 11:51:18 <balrog-kun> it is supposed to, i hear it needs more time for the first fix on a given gps device
Dec 29 11:52:05 <Sup3rkiddo> oh!...didnt know that...so i will just keep it running for a while
Dec 29 11:52:15 <goxboxlive> balrog-kun: Ok, so if i leave it outside for an hou or so it might get the fix?
Dec 29 11:52:36 <goxboxlive> have to wait until it stops raining thoug
Dec 29 11:52:39 <SpeedEvil> 5 min should be plenbty
Dec 29 11:52:45 <balrog-kun> goxboxlive: i'd try that
Dec 29 11:52:57 <SpeedEvil> but 1h if it doesn't work - something's broken
Dec 29 11:53:10 <Sup3rkiddo> =/
Dec 29 11:53:20 <goxboxlive> But since it gets  A1 whyshouldnt it get the fix
Dec 29 11:53:24 <goxboxlive> thats weird
Dec 29 11:53:29 <balrog-kun> well, i heard 5 min wasn't enough for a couple of people
Dec 29 11:53:37 <balrog-kun> (for the *first* fix only)
Dec 29 11:53:46 <goxboxlive> ok, i'll test
Dec 29 11:54:41 <SpeedEvil> A1?
Dec 29 11:54:52 <goxboxlive> Yes the status before the fix
Dec 29 11:55:03 <SpeedEvil> don't know
Dec 29 11:55:09 <goxboxlive> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011916.html
Dec 29 12:00:05 <goxboxlive> Ok, left it outside, connected my external antenna to it. 
Dec 29 12:00:43 <damunix_> hi all
Dec 29 12:01:27 <damunix_> does anyone know if openmoko project will be on the list of google summer porject's ?
Dec 29 12:01:48 * balrog-kun hopes it's not stolen while it's outside :)
Dec 29 12:02:26 <goxboxlive> :-) i guess it woudnt
Dec 29 12:11:39 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, external antenna?
Dec 29 12:14:38 <goxboxlive> Sup3rkiddo: yes i bought one for another device, and the plug fint the neo antenna plug. DOnt know if it wroks, but it still gets A1 signals
Dec 29 12:15:21 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, hmm...ok...getting A1 here as well, still waiting for the fix, although i am indoors
Dec 29 12:16:13 <goxboxlive> i'll go out and check now
Dec 29 12:17:05 <goxboxlive> hey the device was gone :-/ 
Dec 29 12:17:12 <goxboxlive> nope, still no fix
Dec 29 13:44:21 <goxboxlive> Yes, i got a A3, so i have a fix then.
Dec 29 14:03:13 <balrog-kun> goxboxlive: cool
Dec 29 14:03:24 <balrog-kun> it should start working normally after that
Dec 29 14:08:31 <goxboxlive> i have the gps working :-) in qtopia using roadmap
Dec 29 14:28:14 <starox> Hello, I'm toying with openmoko (and a palm T5), and I wonder which is the correct way to manage resolution other than 480x640 ? I should make a specific theme for gtk ?
Dec 29 14:50:40 <haakeyar> Will the GTA02 have powered USB? The Neo1973 wiki page (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973) says so, but the IPhone vs GTA02 wiki page (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone) says it will be unpowered.
Dec 29 14:51:01 <haakeyar> One of them have to be fixed, but I don't know which one is wrong.
Dec 29 14:51:07 <mjr> it will, the comparison is out of date
Dec 29 14:51:46 <mjr> or at least I haven't seen them reneg on the powered usb, while I have seen an official person say it will be so
Dec 29 14:52:06 <mjr> I'll fix the comparison
Dec 29 16:10:34 <Sup3rkiddo> oops, both of my batteries seem to be discharges completely..now the neo doesnt boot up...should i plug it into my computer and wait?
Dec 29 16:38:25 <PBeck> hi
Dec 29 16:39:25 <kinneh> Sup3rkiddo: yes, just wait for an hour or so ...
Dec 29 16:39:49 <Sup3rkiddo> kinneh, yup, saw that in the wiki..just now..danke
Dec 29 16:40:05 <kinneh> np
Dec 29 17:17:26 <goxboxlive> hmm the external antenna i bought for another gps works great with the Neo
Dec 29 17:18:57 <thomasg_> why shouldn't it?
Dec 29 17:20:27 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, got a fix?
Dec 29 17:20:37 <goxboxlive> thomasg_: because it dont with tree other gps devices i have 
Dec 29 17:20:50 <goxboxlive> Sup3rkiddo: yes, it works great now
Dec 29 17:21:10 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, how long did it take?..
Dec 29 17:21:11 <thomasg_> goxboxlive: weird
Dec 29 17:21:16 <goxboxlive> I will make a Qtopia image with the correct setup so other can try too
Dec 29 17:21:35 <goxboxlive> thomasg_: no, it's not. The connector has to fit
Dec 29 17:21:54 <thomasg_> yes, of course. if it's mmcx it fits
Dec 29 17:22:26 <goxboxlive> yes, and my A780 and two other BT gps's doesnt have that connector. But luckely Neo had it
Dec 29 17:22:59 <balrog-kun> remember about the gllin EULA though
Dec 29 17:23:09 <thomasg_> hm, all the gps mice I know and my tomtom have the mmcx-connector
Dec 29 17:23:12 <goxboxlive> balrog-kun: of course
Dec 29 17:23:19 <goxboxlive> ok
Dec 29 17:32:23 <goxboxlive> Sup3rkiddo: I actually dont know, because i tried several places in my house, and when it pointed to north it gave me a fix. But it where in that position at least for an 1/2 hour.
Dec 29 17:33:13 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, oh..and it gets fixes sooner after that "first" fix?
Dec 29 17:34:08 <goxboxlive> Sup3rkiddo: yes, and especially with my external antenna. I havent manage to get a fix inside without the external
Dec 29 17:35:07 <Sup3rkiddo> goxboxlive, hmm....have fun hackz0ring....i wonder when i will get my first fix
Dec 29 17:35:19 <goxboxlive> thx :-)
Dec 29 18:17:19 <folken> anybody at the congress experienced with debricking? 
Dec 29 18:26:41 <preppy> anyone know more about getting openmoko to run on a treo?
Dec 29 18:54:29 <I-MOD> preppy, probably depends on the model, but michael sheldon has some info on getting it on th 650
Dec 29 18:55:05 <preppy> I'm new to this thing i got Opie working
Dec 29 18:55:14 <preppy> but id like to experiment with openMoko
Dec 29 18:55:23 <preppy> seems like a better thing
Dec 29 18:55:30 <I-MOD> looks like someone has it on the 680 as well
Dec 29 18:56:29 <preppy> I contacted Michael Sheldon about it, but he seems to be inactive
Dec 29 18:57:03 <I-MOD> unfortunately, i don't know a whole lot about treo's as I don't have one
Dec 29 18:57:22 <balrog-kun> opie is for sure much faster
Dec 29 18:57:41 <preppy> still has a lack of a dialer application though
Dec 29 18:57:46 <balrog-kun> and phone calls won't work on t650 anyway
Dec 29 18:58:00 <preppy> true
Dec 29 18:58:30 <balrog-kun> BobOfDoom was working on adapting gsmd to the t650 modem and he had some success but no usable phonecalls yet
Dec 29 18:59:04 <preppy> oh really thats interesting
Dec 29 18:59:09 <preppy> i think its very much possible
Dec 29 18:59:51 <balrog-kun> i don't think he'll continue hacking gsmd because qtopia released their full sources a couple of months ago,
Dec 29 19:00:06 <balrog-kun> and it turns out the modem in greenphone is pretty much identical to that in t650
Dec 29 19:00:15 <preppy> oh really
Dec 29 19:00:22 <preppy> so its possible to get qtopia running on a treo
Dec 29 19:00:23 <preppy> ?
Dec 29 19:00:24 <balrog-kun> so the plan was to use qtopia phone services
Dec 29 19:00:41 <balrog-kun> possible yes, i don't know if anyone's done that yet
Dec 29 19:00:56 <Sup3rkiddo> speaking of gsm stuff, any idea on gsmd2 and friends?...
Dec 29 19:04:28 <fgau> Sup3rkiddo: not gsmd2, pygsmd rocks! http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/py-proto/?root=smartphones
Dec 29 19:07:54 * balrog-kun hasn't heard of gsmd2 anymore but started liking gsmd when i stopped looking at its source
Dec 29 19:09:43 <Sup3rkiddo> fgau, ah...for a sec, i thought you were referring to one of my hacks..:P of the same name..binding gsmd...http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/python-gsmd/?root=python-openmoko
Dec 29 19:09:45 <Sup3rkiddo> :P
Dec 29 19:10:48 <fgau> Sup3rkiddo: no, its a new project from emdete :)
Dec 29 19:10:55 <Sup3rkiddo> fgau, hehe
Dec 29 19:13:02 * Sup3rkiddo is a n00b and it shows in his code
Dec 29 19:13:56 <fgau> Sup3rkiddo: hehe
Dec 29 19:15:45 <fgau> i following your project, but this daemon from emdete is very cool. stable for me since hours!
Dec 29 19:17:53 <balrog-kun> why didn't he choose a different name?
Dec 29 19:18:21 <Sup3rkiddo> jep..i need to try it as well...i was about to bring in some serial stuff and voila
Dec 29 19:21:34 <Sup3rkiddo> ..ah, thats more like a shell
Dec 29 19:21:39 * Sup3rkiddo hits the sack
Dec 29 19:21:43 <Sup3rkiddo> night all
Dec 29 19:22:03 <kinneh> anybody knows of a project to: line up a number of icons that runs a configurabe script ? like: start-debug-of-gsmd.sh, start-bluetooth-net.sh and so on
Dec 29 19:23:09 <kinneh> like the "start page" of qtopia 
Dec 29 19:25:43 <fgau> kinneh: try the power button for 2 sec
Dec 29 19:31:23 <werner1990_17313> heheyo
Dec 29 19:36:30 <kinneh> fgau: is it configure:able ?
Dec 29 19:49:53 <fgau> kinneh: sure, in the sources
Dec 29 19:51:03 <mwester> The beauty of open-source :)
Dec 29 20:00:46 <roh> btw.. interresting stuff
Dec 29 20:00:48 <roh> http://www.ccctube.de/saal3.html
Dec 29 20:01:35 <SpeedEvil> Doesn't work in lynx.
Dec 29 20:01:49 * SpeedEvil ff's.
Dec 29 20:03:00 <roh> other formats are listed here http://events.ccc.de/congress/2007/Streaming
Dec 29 20:05:42 <LittleIdiot> err anybody in here on that event?
Dec 29 20:06:03 <roh> yes. ;)
Dec 29 20:06:17 <LittleIdiot> i've read an "openmoko" sign when i went to the toilet, but the people behind that seemed to do anything but moko hacking ;)
Dec 29 20:06:40 <roh> there is also an audiostream from the cellar lounge called maschinenraum
Dec 29 20:06:42 <roh> http://81.163.36.69:8000/
Dec 29 20:06:51 <roh> the lineup is here http://events.ccc.de/congress/2007/Maschinenraum#DJ.2FVJ_Timetable
Dec 29 21:10:04 <ddr400> when comes phase 2 out to stores
Dec 29 21:10:46 <SpeedEvil> christmas, maybe.
Dec 29 21:11:02 <ddr400> i mean not current beta phone but final phone with wifi & gsm
Dec 29 21:11:13 <ddr400> 2008? when
Dec 29 21:11:27 <zash> ~march for final hardware they say
Dec 29 21:11:28 <apt> Forward, MARCH! Shoulder, ARMS! Oh, so we want to be stupid, right, for final hardware they say ? Think we're special, that we can do everything different than everyone else, right? Platoon, HALT. Get back, right now!
Dec 29 21:11:30 <SpeedEvil> for it to appear in stores, the software and hardware has to be in a state where it can be bought by strore buyers 6 months or so ahead.
Dec 29 21:11:55 <SpeedEvil> this is unlikely to happen before July or so, if then.
Dec 29 21:12:50 <TeNoVi> Do anyone know what is in progress now?
Dec 29 21:12:57 <ddr400> thanks, now i know exactly
Dec 29 21:13:45 <SpeedEvil> basically writing drivers for the 02 version
Dec 29 21:14:13 <SpeedEvil> so that hardware can be found to be free of other bugs before starting a new prototype version
Dec 29 21:15:03 <TeNoVi> hmm, can't stand waiting for it.. :P Need a new phone now, but I guess I'll have to wait. .. 
Dec 29 21:15:32 <ddr400> what price it comes, i heard something 460 $
Dec 29 21:15:50 <TeNoVi> 450 I've heard
Dec 29 21:16:54 <ddr400> what about pro version and what is that pro version, cost was somehing 600 i heard
Dec 29 21:17:28 <zash> $450 for base, and 600 for the box
Dec 29 21:17:56 <TeNoVi> The box is for the one that wants to open the phone or what?
Dec 29 21:18:17 <mjr> basically for the hc hardware hacker
Dec 29 21:19:37 <ddr400> you mean that contains tools for opening phone physically and blueprints
Dec 29 21:19:55 <zash> no
Dec 29 21:20:16 <zash> screwdriver and extra batteries and stuff
Dec 29 21:20:21 <zash> and debugboard
Dec 29 21:20:31 <zash> no blueprints afaik
Dec 29 21:23:02 <mjr> no blues
Dec 29 21:23:10 <zash> ddr400: i recomend you read the wiki
Dec 29 21:24:08 <ddr400> i readed some topic from wiki but not much, i continue reading if some detail is required about phone itself
Dec 29 21:24:52 <ddr400> btw thaks for info
Dec 29 22:47:57 <cesarb> Looks like I made a mess, my OE.mtn has two heads, and mokomakefile is chosing one at random (the wrong one)
Dec 29 22:48:18 <cesarb> And that file is huge to redownload
Dec 29 22:55:24 <XorA|gone> mtn --db=OE.mtn merge
Dec 29 22:55:37 <XorA|gone> that'll fix it
Dec 29 23:00:23 <cesarb> XorA|gone: that would create a head which is not one of the upstream heads, confusing even more the issue
Dec 29 23:00:56 <cesarb> XorA|gone: I've just nuked the database and will endure the hour-and-a-half-long download, followed by the multi-hour update
Dec 29 23:01:18 <cesarb> XorA|gone: but, this time, I've edited the makefile so I won't do a "make update" instead of "make update-bleeding-edge" again
Dec 30 00:15:45 <josch> anyone here living in germany who is A) living in germany and can lend me his debug board for my bricked neo or B) is living in germany and can receive my bricked neo to debrick it with his debigboard
Dec 30 00:16:09 <CVirus> wtf is bluetooth GPS ?
Dec 30 00:18:56 <LittleIdiot> josch: do you happen to live near bochum? ;)
Dec 30 00:19:31 <josch> well I would pay for the shipping so it doesn't really matter as long as the person lives in germany
Dec 30 00:19:35 <josch> I live in munich
Dec 30 00:20:08 <mjr> CVirus, any gps module that can tell other devices the location over bluetooth
Dec 30 00:20:19 <mjr> (Neo can act as one, for instance)
Dec 30 00:20:48 <josch> CVirus, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#RFCOMM
Dec 30 00:20:50 <CVirus> mjr: you mean other non GPS based devices ?
Dec 30 00:21:36 <CVirus> josch: thanks for the link
Dec 30 00:22:39 <mjr> CVirus, usually
Dec 30 00:23:25 <CVirus> mjr: Does GPS needs some sort of subscription ? I can't get it to work with my Nokia e61i in Egypt
Dec 30 00:23:29 <CVirus> need*
Dec 30 00:23:56 <mjr> CVirus, doesn't. Some varieties of assisted GPS might not be standalone. Don't know about Nokia.
Dec 30 00:24:25 <CVirus> The device can't find a GPS satellite !
Dec 30 00:24:33 <CVirus> I tried with other nokia devices too
Dec 30 00:24:45 <CVirus> no GPS satellite connection
Dec 30 00:24:56 <mjr> did you give it some time under open sky?
Dec 30 00:25:24 <CVirus> how much time ?
Dec 30 00:25:56 <CVirus> I once got a signal with some Nokia but by noway it could give me my co-ordinates
Dec 30 00:26:09 <CVirus> it always fails
Dec 30 00:26:22 <mjr> depends, 10 minutes should do
Dec 30 00:26:34 <CVirus> hmm
Dec 30 00:27:13 <CVirus> is it possible to get a signal from my room ?
Dec 30 00:27:41 <CVirus> "Searching for GPS Satellites"
Dec 30 00:27:50 <CVirus> "GPS not available"
Dec 30 00:27:53 <mjr> possible, yes, likely, no
Dec 30 00:27:59 <mjr> depends on the room much
Dec 30 00:28:08 <CVirus> I see
Dec 30 00:28:41 <CVirus> but it has already searched and found nuthing ... so I assume it's not even looking for a signal now ... why do I have to wait ?
Dec 30 00:28:46 <mjr> generally you want line of sight to several satellites to be relatively clear
Dec 30 00:28:58 <CVirus> I see
Dec 30 00:28:59 <emdete> if you change the location alot it can take even hours to get a fix...
Dec 30 00:29:31 <CVirus> emdete: would couple of meters make difference ?
Dec 30 00:29:47 <mjr> it needs to get a lock on what sats are up and then get orbital data which is periodically transferred (unless you have network assist, but I assume not)
Dec 30 00:29:49 <emdete> CVirus: not at all. i mean hundrets of kilometers.
Dec 30 00:30:00 <CVirus> ah k
Dec 30 00:30:02 <CVirus> ok*
Dec 30 00:30:30 <emdete> i now would always use a external antenna. i had bad expiriences with my neo. with an ext. antenne it just works fine
Dec 30 00:30:44 <mjr> mine works pretty swell outside
Dec 30 00:31:35 <mjr> Under semi-treecover and inside vehicles too. In a bus _and_ in a pocket seems to be pushing it.
Dec 30 00:31:48 <mjr> oh, trains are bad :I
Dec 30 00:32:18 <Stephmw> yeah, the old BR trains would be better... wood throughout
Dec 30 00:34:16 <emdete> the internal antenne seems to vary from neo to neo...
Dec 30 01:02:51 <thomasg> does somebody know if dropbear only listens on usb0 or on all networking devices?
Dec 30 01:57:51 <xzcvczx> roh: around?
Dec 30 02:33:27 <roh> xzcvczx bareÃly
Dec 30 02:33:37 <roh> whats up?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 30 02:59:57 2007