**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 04 02:59:56 2008 Jan 04 03:34:16 i actually clicked on that link thinking that its related to openmoko ;D **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 04 05:20:12 2008 Jan 04 05:23:07 openmoko: 03mickey * r3762 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/src/ (mainwindow.vala mokoterminal.vala): openmoko-terminal2: add clipboard toolitem, limit maximum and minimum fontsize Jan 04 05:51:38 openmoko: 03mickey * r3763 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/src/mainwindow.vala: openmoko-terminal2: listen for gdk events (prepare to check for fullscreen mode) Jan 04 06:08:38 openmoko: 03mickey * r3764 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/src/mainwindow.vala: openmoko-terminal2: fix packing bug Jan 04 07:24:21 openmoko: 03mickey * r3765 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (8 files in 3 dirs): libmokoui2: add Vala bindings Jan 04 07:28:22 openmoko: 03mickey * r3766 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/bindings/vala/libmokoui2.vapi: libmokoui2: add license header for vala/libmokoui2.vapi Jan 04 08:33:52 NOTE: package openmoko-terminal2-2.1.1+svnr3542-r2: task do_fetch: failed Jan 04 08:34:11 hello everyone and happy new year Jan 04 08:34:46 I just wanted to build the very latest openmoko-devel-image Jan 04 08:35:06 but openmoko-terminal... cant be found Jan 04 08:35:27 its just not there - can anyone help me out with this? Jan 04 08:36:40 I tried to find it manually on the downloads.openmoko.org/sources - is there a Jan 04 08:36:53 another way to get over this? Jan 04 08:47:01 * * OM Bug 1156 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com Jan 04 08:47:02 * * Battery plugin notification support Jan 04 08:47:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1156 Jan 04 08:51:03 Well guys - i managed to find a mirror that could provide the missing package at http://mirror.hentges.net/SonkeiSourceMirror/sorted/o/openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM/openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz Jan 04 08:51:29 and moved it into my source directory Jan 04 08:51:58 so far it works for me :) Jan 04 09:05:00 hey, since efl is being used for the interface does that mean evas now has a opengles backend? to use the graphics hardware? Jan 04 09:13:02 good morning Jan 04 09:13:24 'evening Jan 04 09:20:09 openmoko: 03john_lee * r3767 10/developers/john_lee/toolkit/scripts/script-env: cleanup Jan 04 09:28:00 * * OM Bug 1157 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com Jan 04 09:28:02 * * Dialer history should display call details. Jan 04 09:28:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1157 Jan 04 11:08:16 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r28 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (README config.py pygpsd.py pygsmd.py pyneod.py pypwrd.py): dbus sample added Jan 04 11:21:06 emdete: are you working on fso? Jan 04 12:36:00 * * OM Bug 1158 has been created by plr(AT)udgaard.com Jan 04 12:36:02 * * Charging stops even while connected Jan 04 12:36:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1158 Jan 04 12:44:18 Anyone here, awake, from the US and own a Neo unit? How long did order processing take for you? Jan 04 12:45:05 Im awake...unfortunatly and from the US and not too long is the answer Jan 04 12:45:33 it ships direct from FIC in California Jan 04 12:46:06 it ships direct from FIC in California Jan 04 12:46:14 Sorry about that... I've become exceptionally accurate with hitting CTRL+W when I don't mean to. Jan 04 12:47:13 magellan, I mean processing, not shipping. I have a ton of faith in UPS, but my experiences with FIC seems a bit shakier. I ordered from direct.openmoko.com. How long was yours from "Confirm" button to shipping confirmation e-mail? Jan 04 12:48:01 I paid for the faster shipping and I can't remember the number of days Jan 04 12:48:09 but I shouldn't be too long Jan 04 12:48:15 2 or 3 months? Jan 04 12:48:26 hehe Jan 04 12:48:37 I ordered mine over thanksgiving so and it took a week or two Jan 04 12:48:41 Okay. :P I'm spoiled. :) I'm used to NewEgg speeds so I feel nervous when I don't have a tracking number in 18 hours. :) Jan 04 12:49:01 I'm on day 3 Jan 04 12:49:25 give it another 3 before you get worried Jan 04 12:49:36 pah, you youngsters Jan 04 12:50:46 LarstiQ, I brew my own beer. I order my stuff from Texas and I'm just outside of DC - if THEY can ship to me in 3 days, I expect "First International Computer" from California can too. :P Jan 04 12:51:00 kdean06: use this time to get familiar with flash and build process. maybe put qemu on your machine and play with the emulated device Jan 04 12:51:32 It was using the QEMU images that made me feel comfortable placing my order ratehr than waiting for FreeRunner Jan 04 12:51:46 kdean06: well yes, back in my day my unit still had to be produced Jan 04 12:52:01 * LarstiQ feels old, having ordered last summer ;) Jan 04 12:52:04 did you buy the dev kit Jan 04 12:52:21 Though I seemed to totally miss the "Incomplete uboot flashes will brick your Neo" - had I seen that I'd have spent $90 more for the debug board. :( Jan 04 12:52:32 No, Base. Jan 04 12:53:02 LarstiQ, Well, you KNEW yours was a pre-order. :) Jan 04 12:53:33 kdean06: true, true Jan 04 12:53:35 Is it possible to buy a debug board seperately? Jan 04 12:54:17 kdean06: if it's any consolation, none of my uboot flashes ever went wrong Jan 04 12:54:25 just be careful what you flash Jan 04 12:54:50 kdean06: ie, make someone with a debug board confirm it works before you try ;) Jan 04 12:55:51 I've flashed BIOS on mobos before, AMI, Phoenix and OpenBIOS - I know they're both pretty high on the "brickability" scale and done right both can be completed by a moron. But me and Murphy seem to butt heads a bit. Jan 04 12:57:46 kdean06: tough bugger he is Jan 04 12:58:07 you may want to watch ebay for a debug board Jan 04 13:00:31 Hi all Jan 04 13:02:47 May I have some help compiling the core OpenMoko for host-based dev? (as described here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr) ?? Jan 04 13:04:03 Femto: is this your first time messing with the neo Jan 04 13:04:48 Yes ;) Jan 04 13:05:24 Femto: I would suggest getting your feet wet with moko makefile and qemu Jan 04 13:06:38 magellan: You mean using a pre-compiled image of OpenMoko for the target CPU ? Jan 04 13:07:27 for the first time yes Jan 04 13:07:59 compiling your own takes forever forever ever Jan 04 13:08:10 Ok, I'll try, but it seems to be a simple compile error, and lib reference error... Jan 04 13:08:37 I didn't realize that you were already in the thick of it Jan 04 13:09:13 I'm sorry, but I don't understant your sentence. I'm not so fluent in english :( Jan 04 13:09:33 I don't know what " in the thick of it" means Jan 04 13:11:37 sorry I didn't realize you weren't a native speaker, "in the thick if it" means that you have already begun. I thought you were tryin to get help with just getting a emulated system working Jan 04 13:12:05 I thought you were just starting out, not already started Jan 04 13:12:18 Femto: where are you and what is the native language? Jan 04 13:12:46 No, I've build libs, daemons, and I was stopped on the panel apps (I'm french) Jan 04 13:14:36 Im sorry but I don't think I can help you any further since I don't have any knowledge of Xephyr Jan 04 13:15:10 It's probably the use of PKG_CONFIG_PATH, which is working fine for the libs and neod, but seems to fail on building panel-gsm, etc... Jan 04 13:15:29 Is there a "rule" for the Wiki to not "mention" non-free software. I ask because I see something stating that Moko SD cards can't be read on Windows due to the EXT2 filesystem but there ARE EXT2 drivers for Windows. Jan 04 13:16:23 kdean06: you can format microsd card to vfat format Jan 04 13:16:32 so ms windows will read it without problems Jan 04 13:16:34 magellan: it's not yet specific Xoo nor Xephyr... but thanks for your help Jan 04 13:17:49 hrw, Yes, but the instructions on the Wiki suggest formatting to EXT for ipkg installation to SD and it cautions that this breaks Windows usability. This would be wrong twice - once since Windows CAN read them and twice because I assume that it CAN handle a vfat SD card (since Linux can mount it)... Jan 04 13:19:17 kdean06: you can also split card to few partitions Jan 04 13:25:49 gneuh ? Jan 04 13:25:59 oops Jan 04 13:40:38 more spam on the list ? Jan 04 13:40:56 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r29 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (pygsmd.py sample.py): some docs added Jan 04 13:42:01 windows can read/write ext2 fine Jan 04 14:17:49 Hi... How can I report some problems generating libipkg and pkg-config compliance ? Is bugzilla adapted for this kind of problems ? Jan 04 14:20:58 Femto: is the problem openmoko specific? Jan 04 14:21:13 or can it be fixed in OE for example Jan 04 14:23:15 balrog-kun: I don't know exactly... I'm not very fluent in autoconf/automake, but it seems ipkg need to have a pkgconfig_DATA= line in the Makefile.am Jan 04 14:23:33 if you're not sure just file it in openmoko bugzilla, it handles all kind of software and hardware problem reports Jan 04 14:23:39 and I don't know if it's OE or OM specific Jan 04 14:24:19 and a number of OE people look in OM bugzilla too Jan 04 14:24:57 Ok... I'll try to file it. Thx Jan 04 14:31:54 hi guys Jan 04 14:52:00 * * OM Bug 1159 has been created by fr-om(AT)tourde.org Jan 04 14:52:01 * * Build of libipkg doesn't install libipkg.pc into pkgconfig Jan 04 14:52:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 Jan 04 14:52:43 Yeah ! That's a good bot :) ... Nice job guys. Jan 04 14:54:20 Is there some central site or wiki for QTopia on the neo? I installed per the page on wiki.openmoko.org, but I can't find a list of suitable servers for installing more apps Jan 04 14:59:43 Is there some central site or wiki for QTopia on the neo? I installed per the page on wiki.openmoko.org, but I can't find a list of suitable servers for installing more apps Jan 04 15:04:44 \o/ I ordered my neo Jan 04 15:07:00 starox, they're taking orders? how nice, I'll check that out Jan 04 15:07:16 for gta01... Jan 04 15:07:33 ok Jan 04 15:07:37 but there's new stock in? Jan 04 15:08:54 tonyg: I believe there was always stock (for the black model at least). Jan 04 15:09:01 oh, right Jan 04 15:09:01 cool Jan 04 15:10:42 is OM's default kernel configuration somewhere in mokomakefile's downloaded files? Jan 04 15:13:33 starox, I ordered mine 3 days ago, so congrats on yours! Jan 04 15:14:51 bmk789: openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko Jan 04 15:14:57 thanks Jan 04 15:15:38 kdean06: I abandonned my palm ! Not enough memory for openmoko Jan 04 15:16:11 *bug 1105 Jan 04 15:16:15 hm Jan 04 15:16:35 Is there anyone in particular who might be interested in taking a look at bug 1105, do you think? Jan 04 15:16:57 bmk789: there is also : openembedded/org.openembedded.dev/packages/linux/linux-openmoko Jan 04 15:17:01 With luck, it's a smallish change - and it could improve power draw significantly.. Jan 04 15:21:06 tonyg what do you suggest? Jan 04 15:22:22 roh, :) wellll... I did get into the kernel a little, but it'd take me a while to figure out exactly what to do Jan 04 15:22:42 I'd like to discuss it with one of the kernel devs, I guess Jan 04 15:23:09 actually, while I think of it, which mailing list is most appropriate for such infrastructure development discussion? Jan 04 15:23:30 openmoko-kernel I guess Jan 04 15:24:54 dunno, but I remember someone telling it won't spare too much according to this page : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management Jan 04 15:25:41 !bug 1105 Jan 04 15:25:51 whjat's the bug? Jan 04 15:26:55 SpeedEvil: LCD didn't switch off completely Jan 04 15:28:25 SpeedEvil: It's rather short :) When the screen is off, backlight is not totally off and lcd isn't clear Jan 04 15:28:33 ah - that Jan 04 15:28:39 yeah Jan 04 15:28:56 do you want to add that to the power managment table? Jan 04 15:30:31 It's probably not insignificant. Jan 04 15:30:48 it's 60Hz*3*640*480 memory bandwidth Jan 04 15:31:25 and the LCD driver power, CPU power in driving the RAM, ... Jan 04 15:31:55 I'd experiment with fixing it myself, only the kernel terrifies me Jan 04 15:31:57 ;) Jan 04 15:32:21 SpeedEvil: is it pmu off ? Jan 04 15:32:21 tonyg: imho it's a bug in the backlight driver. should not be too hard to fix Jan 04 15:32:30 starox: I don't know Jan 04 15:32:49 rtp, by something maybe like straightforwardly clearing some "lcd refresh" power pin? Jan 04 15:33:05 or is there some sophisticated dialog involving clocks and plls and things? :/ Jan 04 15:33:14 No - you need to turn the display controller off too ideally Jan 04 15:33:14 I'm unsure of the interdependencies Jan 04 15:33:28 otherwise you only save the LCD panel driver bit of the power Jan 04 15:33:33 * tonyg nods Jan 04 15:33:34 which is likely to be the smallest Jan 04 15:33:43 the biggest is probably the CPU/RAM Jan 04 15:34:35 tonyg: well, I don't know. I don't remember how things are setup on the neo Jan 04 15:36:47 where in openmoko-messages2 is the button to read a message? Jan 04 15:39:23 Has anyone been able to do a full image build in the past 48 hours? Im pretty sure things are screwed up on the mtn server. Jan 04 15:39:25 tonyg: I found something else on the wiki : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 has links to lcd and backlight kernel patch Jan 04 15:41:06 cool Jan 04 15:41:07 * tonyg looks Jan 04 15:52:04 tonyg: a having a look at the suspend hook of the jbt driver may be a good start. For instance, I don't see any call to jbt6k74_display_onoff Jan 04 16:27:13 Hi! Is there a small file somewhere on the neo's filesystem which gives me the build-nubmer/revision of the installed openmoko os? Jan 04 16:29:24 toxx, /etc/versio Jan 04 16:29:27 toxx, /etc/version even Jan 04 16:31:07 Dodji: thanks! Jan 04 16:31:29 np Jan 04 16:34:12 i just received my 2nd-hand neo1973 and I'm now trying to get that thing working. Is it normal to have log messages of this form in /var/log/message: ? Jan 04 16:34:22 JFFS2 notice: (1314) jffs2_get_inode_nodes: Wrong magic bitmask 0x0000 in node header at 0x37d7a0. Jan 04 16:34:40 I'm trying to read out/backup the original flash files, as described in the wiki. Jan 04 16:35:23 also, the process seems to be rather slow, about 20kB/s for /dev/mtblock4 Jan 04 16:40:36 toxx: yes, normal to get jffs2 errors Jan 04 16:44:14 balrog-kun: what is it? are these real i/o errors or is this only a non up-to-date driver causing these? Jan 04 16:45:02 .. it just makes me a tad nervous Jan 04 16:47:06 I apologize for repeating myself, but I have to ask again - can anyone refer me to a good source of information about QTopia on the neo? I have installed it, but I dunno where to find package lists, defect reports, and general wiki-type content Jan 04 16:48:10 Does anyone ahve an idea what on an imager - 'COB (no backgrinding)' may mean Jan 04 16:48:13 oops Jan 04 16:48:37 also, I'd like to know whether it is normal that I get i/o errors on a lot of files while reading out /dev/mtdblock4? For example, /etc/version gives me "cat: /etc/version: Input/output error" Jan 04 16:53:48 wurp2: www.qtopia.com? Check on #qtopia as well. Jan 04 16:55:11 toxx: if you're getting i/o errors on regular filesystem access then you should probably reboot. Jan 04 16:55:40 mwester: I've been cruising around www.qtopia.com and not finding anything neo specific except forum comments, so far Jan 04 16:55:53 but I'll try #qtopia - I wasn't aware itw as there Jan 04 16:56:07 s/itw as/it was/ Jan 04 16:56:07 wurp2 meant: but I'll try #qtopia - I wasn't aware it was there Jan 04 16:57:25 Also, you probably don't need to back up the old flash partitions. You can just install a new kernel/rootfs/etc. Jan 04 17:14:29 mwester: for posterity, it's www.qtopia.net Jan 04 17:15:57 wurp2: Oops! Jan 04 17:36:00 hello Jan 04 17:36:26 hi Jan 04 17:37:19 somewhere in the internet was a webspace with the soundeffects, which where supposed to be in the openmoko dist. but i can't find it anymore. do anyone still know the place? :/ Jan 04 17:37:55 mokomakefile Jan 04 17:37:59 knows Jan 04 17:38:05 http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/ Jan 04 17:38:16 ? Jan 04 17:45:43 ah, thank you, this was, what i looked for. :D Jan 04 18:12:59 hey guys Jan 04 18:13:05 is the consumer version of moko available yet? Jan 04 18:14:00 so no Jan 04 18:14:01 t Jan 04 18:15:00 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2393777675.html Jan 04 18:15:08 thats pretty frickin cool tho Jan 04 18:15:20 hi again. I updated my moko now successfully to OpenMoko-openmoko-image-glibc-ipk-Snapshot-20071201-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 and so far there are no jffs2 problems. As I want to test the GSM functionality first (of course), i'm trying to enter my pin, but the menu simple comes up a second time, without any information to whether the pin is correct or not Jan 04 18:20:35 "Display -- 4.3-inch diagonal WQVGA Color TFT LCD (480x272)" Jan 04 18:20:40 was the display downgraded? Jan 04 18:23:36 It'm pretty sure that's basically wrong Jan 04 18:23:48 500Mhz is certainly wrong Jan 04 18:24:09 hello Jan 04 18:24:32 (the screen size) Jan 04 18:24:43 500MHz is the specified limit for the CPU Jan 04 18:25:01 it's not yet decided whether it will run at 400MHz or 500MHz Jan 04 18:25:45 I thought micke y had said that 500 was a typo Jan 04 18:29:40 Where does it say how much the final revision of the Neo1973 will cost? Jan 04 18:29:43 well, he said that but i think it made a couple of people in the team ponder 500MHz Jan 04 18:29:48 SpeedEvil: I thought mickey said "don't think about that" Jan 04 18:30:08 which is not quite the same thing Jan 04 18:31:35 Dark_Apostrophe, around; $450 is the quoted value Jan 04 18:31:48 Ok, thanks Jan 04 18:32:02 BTW, I've read quite a bit of economics - value != price :p Jan 04 18:32:40 btw, is the blue print somewhere? Jan 04 18:32:48 maito, no Jan 04 18:32:48 "Requested 'vte >= 0.16.9' but version of vte is 0.16.8" i had done make update-bleeding-edge, where is 0.16.9? Jan 04 18:33:06 Dark_Apostrophe, yeaaah, actually it caught my eye too right after I pressed enter :] Jan 04 18:33:09 why not? Jan 04 18:33:26 mjr: Ok :) Jan 04 18:33:36 just wondering how hard it would be to change the gsm module Jan 04 18:34:00 mjr: I'm afraid that's a tad too expensive for me... I'll go with a Sony Ericsson instead.. :( Jan 04 18:34:27 Dark_Apostrophe: Do you do business projects on the phone? Jan 04 18:34:32 encryption.... anyone? anyone at all? Jan 04 18:34:36 wurp2: No Jan 04 18:34:39 Mine is a business expense, which for me knocks off almost 1/3 of the price Jan 04 18:34:54 So the people who read this article http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates via digg have a lot of questions about whats happening with the Neo1973 and their frustration with all the delays with Android sitting on the horizon. Jan 04 18:34:55 RedDog: set PREFERRED_VERSION_vte ?= "0.16.9" in build/conf/local.conf Jan 04 18:34:56 wurp2: I'm just a nerd, I use Linux in my daily life... Jan 04 18:34:58 You guys may kick me out of the channel but I think it might be wise to issue some sort of press release to answer those questions. Jan 04 18:35:03 Me too Jan 04 18:35:30 Tinkering with a phone sounds quite cool... Jan 04 18:35:35 mmontour: there is no vte_0.16.8.bb ... Jan 04 18:35:38 Dark_Apostrophe: But I don't restrict myself to doing projects that can't make money Jan 04 18:35:40 sry .9 ... Jan 04 18:35:42 Being able to SSH into something that's sitting in your pocket :p Jan 04 18:35:50 err http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2393777675.html that article Jan 04 18:35:51 sorry Jan 04 18:36:00 wurp2: Well, ATM, I can't afford anything too expensive Jan 04 18:36:10 understood Jan 04 18:36:11 wurp2: Saving up to get a car and driver's license, then to move out... Jan 04 18:36:12 save up, the freerunner is not released yet Jan 04 18:36:31 maito: basically impossible to change Jan 04 18:36:37 maito: it's integrated Jan 04 18:36:48 wurp2: But still...something about being able to SSH into something that's sitting in your pocket is awesome :p Jan 04 18:37:13 SpeedEvil: how about adding a 3G capable module and disabling the gsm module? Jan 04 18:37:13 or FROM something thats sitting in your packet Jan 04 18:37:14 indeed Jan 04 18:37:42 maito: no need to disable the existing one - just don't use it. Jan 04 18:37:52 maito: it's simply an AT modem connected over serial Jan 04 18:38:42 Dark_Apostrophe: I dunno if it makes a difference for you, but the gta01 is $300 Jan 04 18:39:07 Dark_Apostrophe: And you can network with it through bluetooth, of course that's only good where you have the host bluetooth machine set up properly Jan 04 18:39:29 SpeedEvil: yes :) 3G is just superior over GPRS when it comes to lag so I would very much like a 3G module :) (edge has 700ms ping, 3g has as low as 150ms) Jan 04 18:39:34 I would wait for the next one Jan 04 18:39:48 wurp2: I don't want beta-level hardware :p Jan 04 18:39:59 wurp2: And besides, I just placed an order on a Sony Ericsson a few minutes ago :( Jan 04 18:40:08 maito: you can make a one-off PCB ro do it. But it'd cost. Jan 04 18:40:15 wurp2: As for networking, I meant WiFi :p Jan 04 18:40:19 the only downside I see to the HW (other than the missing wireless & slower processor) is power management Jan 04 18:40:30 and I think that is mostly software, not HW Jan 04 18:40:44 power management is a real concern of mine Jan 04 18:40:46 Dark_Apostrophe: all understandable :-) Jan 04 18:41:04 Yeah, I'm lucky I sit at a computer all day Jan 04 18:41:25 RedDog: the PREFERRED_VERSION thing worked for me a few days ago. Jan 04 18:41:45 mtn didn't the update to oe rev... forced with -r 3ee21fd3d6d6a0cddf83ef3711c24b4d6d7d7451 Jan 04 18:42:20 SpeedEvil: Im currently using a nearly 900usd phone, I believe the developer set + 3g module wont even be that much? Jan 04 18:42:39 wurp2: The Neo1973 also lacks camera...that's a major downside, in my eyes.. Jan 04 18:42:59 maito: $20-50K Jan 04 18:43:17 maito: basically it's most of the work of a custom design. Jan 04 18:43:36 (assuming you can't do the design and fabrication yourself) Jan 04 18:43:53 SpeedEvil: right. was more thinking of doing a fun hack myself.. Jan 04 18:44:32 semi-feasible, certainly not practical Jan 04 18:45:40 To do it improperly, you can make a replacement back with the 3G module in Jan 04 18:45:41 Dark_Apostrophe: Yeah, but for a camera, I was just gonna bluetooth something in Jan 04 18:45:53 there are no cheap bluetooth cams. Jan 04 18:45:54 Dark_Apostrophe: and I'm hoping they'll release a usb add-on :-) Jan 04 18:46:07 SpeedEvil: :-( Jan 04 18:46:24 Hrm, that would be too impractical - the Neo1973 already looks big enough that if you were to hit a person in a head with it, that person might die :p Jan 04 18:46:31 I'm always amused at how OM pitches the lack of a camera as a feature Jan 04 18:46:48 wurp2: OM? Jan 04 18:46:53 I'm not hung up on having one, but the lack of one is certainly not a feature for most people Jan 04 18:46:56 openmoko Jan 04 18:47:00 FIC, I guess Jan 04 18:47:01 Oh, right, of course. Jan 04 18:47:13 SpeedEvil: yeap :) thanks for the info, will look back into it sometimes around when freerunner ships Jan 04 18:47:17 Dark_Apostrophe: I don't think it's impractical if you don't use it all the time Jan 04 18:47:18 It's a feature nobody wants! :p Jan 04 18:47:21 and I don't Jan 04 18:47:34 No, but I don't wanna carry around a big brick in my pocket :p Jan 04 18:48:09 Oh yeah, I think neo is too big for pocket Jan 04 18:48:20 Right now I use that damned dangly bag thing Jan 04 18:48:26 anxiously awaiting a belt clip Jan 04 18:48:40 or waistband clip, since I don't wear a belt Jan 04 18:49:11 Still, overall, gps is very useful for me, and neo's gps is quite usable with navit Jan 04 18:49:31 and being able to get a shell on my phone & program on the pot is very handy ;-) Jan 04 18:49:40 and I can stop carrying around a media player Jan 04 18:49:55 One thing I *hate* about just about every phone out there is the keyboards Jan 04 18:49:55 and I can futz around with biz projects using gps & sms Jan 04 18:50:03 and I can let the kids watch videos on it Jan 04 18:50:16 Those small, annoying numeric keyboards are useless for SMS... takes like two minutes to write a short message.. :( Jan 04 18:50:32 The Blackberry keyboard is actually quite usable IMO Jan 04 18:50:45 I used it with two thumbs, and it almost always just did what I wanted Jan 04 18:50:50 The blackberries, from what I've seen, are gigantic Jan 04 18:51:01 unfortunately, it was a closed & feature light phone Jan 04 18:51:02 sure Jan 04 18:51:13 any phone with any kind of user input ability is gonna have to be Jan 04 18:51:39 I think Nokia's N73 has a nice twist on it Jan 04 18:51:44 Wear a clip instead of trying to put it in your pocket Jan 04 18:51:57 Is that the one where you clamshell it or otherwise unfold it? Jan 04 18:52:09 No wait Jan 04 18:52:11 Nokia E70 Jan 04 18:52:20 This one ---> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone Jan 04 18:52:46 My firewall says: Jan 04 18:52:55 The category "Tasteless" is blocked Jan 04 18:53:08 ;-) Jan 04 18:53:39 Southwest airlines doesn't like your site Jan 04 18:53:48 haha Jan 04 18:53:52 Maddox's website Jan 04 18:54:05 Apparently, Maddox isn't popular with airlines :P Jan 04 18:54:37 they have a fairly restrictive firewall Jan 04 18:54:37 use a proxy, like anonymouse.ws :p Jan 04 18:54:41 I'm not supposed to be here Jan 04 18:54:50 Piggybacking? :P Jan 04 18:54:53 That seems a bit too obvious Jan 04 18:55:03 http://tor.eff.org <--- :p Jan 04 18:55:10 ssh using http proxy via corkscrew to my ssh running on port 443 Jan 04 19:08:53 What carriers are you guys using in the USA? I need to replace my nextel. Is it pretty much all AT&T? Jan 04 19:12:05 I think it's all AT&T Jan 04 19:12:34 and then you still almost certainly need to get the gsm modem update so the neo can read your SIm Jan 04 19:12:39 s/SIm/SIM/ Jan 04 19:12:39 wurp2 meant: and then you still almost certainly need to get the gsm modem update so the neo can read your SIM Jan 04 19:13:26 apt: shh Jan 04 19:13:27 QUIET! Jan 04 19:15:45 sup CVirus Jan 04 19:16:49 wurp2: a gsm modem update? what does that involve? Firmware update? Jan 04 19:32:48 bipolar: Yep, the firmware update. You mail your neo off to Michael Shiloh. Jan 04 19:33:49 bipolar: There's a page, I think it's called Carriers, on wiki.openmoko.org that tells you which SIMs are supported and which not Jan 04 19:34:04 thseiler: hey Jan 04 19:34:12 but in my experience, none of the AT&T SIMs I've seen are supported. Jan 04 19:34:16 hello Robot101 Jan 04 19:34:16 or wait till they get TI to sign papers Jan 04 19:34:25 yeah, that too Jan 04 19:34:53 I kind of thought that if that was imminent, though, that MShiloh would have hinted at it when I talked to him about mailing him my neo Jan 04 19:35:07 thseiler: in GSM call divert, are the states (like All, If busy, If not answered, If out of reach, If not available) built in to the protocol? Jan 04 19:35:16 thseiler: or are they variable per network or something? Jan 04 19:35:39 we're just wondering how/if to update the telepathy forwarding spec to be useful with GSM Jan 04 19:36:00 great news! Jan 04 19:36:17 anybody got problem with bluetooth on resent images (like 2 weeks from now and one that built with mokomakefile 1 hr ago) ? Jan 04 19:36:39 Robot101 telepathy forwarding spec? Jan 04 19:36:44 uh, so, do you know? or where can I find out? Jan 04 19:36:51 forwarding interface, rather Jan 04 19:36:54 Robot101: the forwarding is handled entirely by the network, so the phone does not need to take any action to divert an incomming call. Jan 04 19:36:57 uptil, now I mean Jan 04 19:37:25 osm2navit segfaults for me, grr Jan 04 19:37:31 thseiler: right, but if the connection represents your connection to the network, the forwarding interface on the connection will instruct the network Jan 04 19:37:33 Robot101: However it needs to tell the network how to react, and it does so by USSD messages *21*.... Jan 04 19:37:51 (navit as from the repos) Jan 04 19:38:33 kinneh: I used an image from within the last 2 weeks, and I couldn't get bluetooth to work with my windows machine, but I assumed it was stupidity in my windows laptop. Jan 04 19:38:40 Apparently it wants too much memory. Ah well. Jan 04 19:38:47 Still waiting for a bluetooth dongle in th email to test on my (linux) desktop Jan 04 19:39:01 mjr: navit works fine on my neo... Jan 04 19:39:04 bad software though for reporting said error condition via a segfault... Jan 04 19:39:30 mjr: Well, I should say that the basics work fine. Many menu options segfault Jan 04 19:39:31 wurp2, I at least started it up fine too. Just that I want to convert a piece of map for it so it'd be more useful... Jan 04 19:39:35 thseiler: are the conditions the same on any GSM network? or can they differ? Jan 04 19:39:40 mjr: Oh :-) Jan 04 19:39:56 thseiler: I see on my nokia phones they have the same list of conditions, is this a standard, or a convention, or what? Jan 04 19:40:10 probably will have to compile navit for my desktop. Oh bother :) Jan 04 19:40:20 and some networks could just go "eh?" if I try and set certain conditions? Jan 04 19:40:46 Robot101: the exact numbers and their meaning are part of a GSM standard, but i don't recall the exact number at the moment. That means, all the phones use the same numbers Jan 04 19:41:00 http://www.theunwired.net/?item=how-to-diverting-voice-calls-by-using-ussd-codes Jan 04 19:41:04 what's better: qte-mt-static, qte, qte-mt? Jan 04 19:41:06 this seems relevant, but incomplete Jan 04 19:41:19 mjr: I have it on my desktop. I fyou wanted to send me a zip of the osms, I could convert to navit for you Jan 04 19:41:25 but it would be tonight Jan 04 19:41:36 uh, which for me means in about 6 hours Jan 04 19:41:47 hmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_forwarding is better Jan 04 19:41:55 nah, thanks, but I'll get around to it... Jan 04 19:42:48 Robot101: Usually, the UI of the mobile phone has some menu to set / query the call diverting status from the network. Jan 04 19:43:08 there are GSM commands Jan 04 19:43:19 yeah Jan 04 19:43:25 I guess I'm just wondering if it's worth having a dictionary in telepathy of conditions, mapped to the number (and optionally, delay) Jan 04 19:43:27 you usually need to pay for it in many markets Jan 04 19:43:41 or at least pay per-call Jan 04 19:43:58 You usually need to pay for a USSD session, thats right Jan 04 19:44:32 so it will cost a small few if you check the the current status of call forwarding. Jan 04 19:44:52 I-MOD: hi ? Jan 04 19:45:14 There is also the possibility to run a USSD session trough the Fast Signaling Channel during a voice call. Jan 04 19:45:45 ussd? Jan 04 19:45:52 This is often done on some modern phones nowadays: You call someone, and the phone displays something along the line of "call forwarding is in effect" Jan 04 19:46:23 USSD - Unstructured Supplementary Service Data Jan 04 19:46:31 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data Jan 04 19:46:55 as a reminder that the other person might not be able to call you back, should you not be able to reach her. Jan 04 19:47:20 not all networks support all kind of forwarding Jan 04 19:48:03 but service 21 (unconditional forwarding) is supported by all as far as i know Jan 04 19:49:39 hmm Jan 04 19:49:51 Most networks have some sort of voice box option, that is handled independently of the service 21 setting. Jan 04 19:50:07 don't you do it by setting a forward to your voice mailbox number? Jan 04 19:50:25 That is how its done is some networks. Jan 04 19:50:51 Other handle it independently. Jan 04 19:50:58