**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 07 02:59:57 2008
Jan 07 05:41:53 <mbuf> who is working on qemu-neo1973?
Jan 07 06:11:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1163 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
Jan 07 06:11:02 <cdbot2> * * cannot send SMS from Contacts
Jan 07 06:11:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1163
Jan 07 06:13:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1164 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
Jan 07 06:13:02 <cdbot2> * * no communication history in Contacts
Jan 07 06:13:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1164
Jan 07 07:17:22 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03andrew * r3778 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (47 files in 7 dirs): Update tree to qemu-0.9.1.
Jan 07 07:29:10 <balrog-kun> mbuf: me
Jan 07 08:26:40 <mbuf> balrog-kun, i am stuck with this, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-January/001847.html
Jan 07 08:28:00 <mbuf> balrog-kun, January 7th build
Jan 07 08:55:39 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jan 07 09:22:16 * CM is somewhat back
Jan 07 09:28:48 * ScaredyCat too... but sleepy
Jan 07 09:44:49 <CIA-15> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r33 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (pygpsd.py pygsmd.py): 
Jan 07 09:44:49 <CIA-15> freesmartphone.org: power on/off added
Jan 07 09:44:49 <CIA-15> freesmartphone.org: allows state for emergency calls (not tested)
Jan 07 10:03:33 <gambler> neo has a USB port for keyboard?
Jan 07 10:04:30 <cjb_ie> unpowered
Jan 07 10:44:48 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03chris * r3779 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): 
Jan 07 10:44:48 <CIA-15> openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds):
Jan 07 10:44:48 <CIA-15> openmoko: Correct a misinterpretation of how delivery status reports are stored
Jan 07 11:19:05 <afents> no mailinglist admins monitoring the list? :P
Jan 07 11:34:26 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03chris * r3780 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c): 
Jan 07 11:34:26 <CIA-15> openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (scroll_notes_to_bottom_cb), (note_progress_cb),
Jan 07 11:34:26 <CIA-15> openmoko: (page_shown):
Jan 07 11:34:26 <CIA-15> openmoko: Scroll the notes treeview to the end of the list when switching to the
Jan 07 11:34:26 <CIA-15> openmoko: page
Jan 07 11:42:31 <farck> why
Jan 07 11:48:20 <bluelightning> farck: because.
Jan 07 11:48:27 <josch> -_-
Jan 07 11:48:28 <bluelightning> ;)
Jan 07 11:48:33 <farck> no
Jan 07 11:48:50 <josch> +1
Jan 07 11:49:03 <farck> +2
Jan 07 11:49:06 <farck> +3
Jan 07 11:49:08 <farck> +4
Jan 07 11:49:10 <farck> +5
Jan 07 11:49:11 <cjb_ie> ?5
Jan 07 11:49:11 <bluelightning> -1 Flamebait
Jan 07 11:49:13 <josch> -_-
Jan 07 11:49:13 <farck> +6
Jan 07 11:49:16 <farck> +7
Jan 07 11:49:18 <farck> +8
Jan 07 11:49:20 <farck> +9
Jan 07 11:49:22 <farck> +10
Jan 07 11:49:24 <farck> +11
Jan 07 11:49:26 <farck> +12
Jan 07 11:49:28 <farck> +13
Jan 07 11:49:31 <farck> +14
Jan 07 11:49:35 <farck> +15
Jan 07 11:49:37 <bluelightning> <click> NO CARRIER
Jan 07 11:49:37 <josch> we know you can count further than 10 now - thanks
Jan 07 11:49:39 <cjb_ie> don't make me /exec -o seq 1 100  on your asses
Jan 07 11:49:43 <farck> +16¨
Jan 07 11:49:46 <farck> +17
Jan 07 11:49:50 <farck> +18¨
Jan 07 11:49:52 <farck> +9
Jan 07 11:49:56 <farck> +3
Jan 07 11:50:00 <farck> +0
Jan 07 11:50:02 <farck> -3
Jan 07 11:50:05 <farck> -6
Jan 07 11:50:08 <farck> -13
Jan 07 11:50:12 <farck> -26
Jan 07 11:50:15 <farck> -39
Jan 07 11:50:15 <cjb_ie> 3.141592653589...
Jan 07 11:50:18 <farck> -52
Jan 07 11:50:27 <cjb_ie> 2.718281828...
Jan 07 11:50:34 <josch> I'd have written myself a nice python script for this spam
Jan 07 11:52:45 <farck> no
Jan 07 11:52:59 <josch> I'm so sorry for having started this...
Jan 07 11:54:30 <farck> poor josch
Jan 07 12:00:00 <farck> poor josch
Jan 07 12:00:22 <farck> poor pvanhoof
Jan 07 12:00:35 <pvanhoof> poor?
Jan 07 12:00:44 <farck> yes
Jan 07 12:00:50 <farck> do you admit you're poor?
Jan 07 12:01:03 <pvanhoof> Somebody just said something like: "the next guy who'll join is an idiot" ?
Jan 07 12:01:14 <pvanhoof> farck, financially or socially poor?
Jan 07 12:01:18 <dorje77> Oh, really?
Jan 07 12:01:22 <dorje77> :)
Jan 07 12:01:32 <farck> socially poor
Jan 07 12:03:08 <farck> do you admit it?
Jan 07 12:03:14 <madwoota> i'm filthy rich, sux2bme
Jan 07 12:03:40 <farck> why
Jan 07 12:04:19 <farck> poor madwoota
Jan 07 12:22:37 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/07/how-to-replace-zaurus-pda/ 
Jan 07 12:24:16 <SpeedEvil> hrw: replace the battery.
Jan 07 12:27:20 <hrw> SpeedEvil: they are available in amazon only (or for high price)
Jan 07 12:27:53 <SpeedEvil> Sorry. I tend to assume everyone is not afraid of solutions involving a soldering iron.
Jan 07 12:28:40 <SpeedEvil> And there are lots of this size of all sizes of bare cells available on ebay
Jan 07 12:36:49 <hrw> if I would like to hack battery for Z I would buy new one in amazon via someone in US
Jan 07 12:37:46 <hrw> 950mAh one is 13.55usd
Jan 07 12:38:09 <SpeedEvil> Ah right, I was assuming they were expensive or unavaialbel.
Jan 07 12:38:11 <hrw> 14.99 for original one, 15.95 for 1700mAh one
Jan 07 12:38:30 <hrw> ~change 16 usd to pln
Jan 07 12:38:35 <apt> i got some error trying that
Jan 07 12:39:40 <hrw> looks like time for another US shopping
Jan 07 13:51:34 * ScaredyCat pokes CM
Jan 07 13:51:46 <ScaredyCat> just got an iMIV for th S80 :D
Jan 07 14:09:04 <josch> CM, if I want to leave germany - should I go to sweden or norway?
Jan 07 14:09:10 <josch> :-D
Jan 07 14:09:42 <maito> .fi \o7
Jan 07 14:10:02 <mbuf> josch, 6 months in SE, 6 months in NO
Jan 07 14:10:12 <josch> mbuf, and then?
Jan 07 14:10:21 <mbuf> josch, come back and ask us
Jan 07 14:16:05 * SpeedEvil passes josch magic-8-ball.ipk
Jan 07 14:16:15 <SpeedEvil> Hey!
Jan 07 14:16:23 <SpeedEvil> another use for the accelerometers.
Jan 07 14:18:00 <josch> hahahaha
Jan 07 14:18:09 <mjr> excellent
Jan 07 14:19:52 <Sup3rkiddo> accelerometers sure will be fun
Jan 07 14:22:40 <NineX> yeah who shake openmoko harder ;)
Jan 07 14:23:23 * Sup3rkiddo somehow doesnt want to know the consequences
Jan 07 15:14:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03chris * r3781 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c): 
Jan 07 15:14:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (retry_oper_get),
Jan 07 15:14:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: (retry_opers_get), (retry_get_imsi), (on_network_registered),
Jan 07 15:14:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: (moko_network_dispose), (net_msghandler), (phone_msghandler):
Jan 07 15:14:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: Retry retrieval of network details on connecting if they fail (ten
Jan 07 15:14:44 <CIA-15> openmoko: second time-out) - should help reliability of SMS sending
Jan 07 15:27:09 <spydon> I thought gta02 was just another version of neo1973...
Jan 07 15:29:08 <cjb_ie> spydon: yup. second sw developer release aiui
Jan 07 15:29:30 <spydon> aiui? :P
Jan 07 15:29:45 <cb23> as i understand it
Jan 07 15:29:54 <cb23> (afaik)
Jan 07 15:30:08 <spydon> what about this freerunner thing then?
Jan 07 15:30:26 <spydon> isn't that gt02 too?
Jan 07 15:30:48 <cb23> it is
Jan 07 15:30:52 <cb23> gta02 == freerunner
Jan 07 15:31:30 <spydon> so it's like neo1973 freerunner?
Jan 07 15:31:31 <mwester> "freerunner" == marketing hype + gta02
Jan 07 15:31:47 <spydon> i see
Jan 07 15:33:12 <cb23> and its a lot easier to tell your friends too. Hey, what phone did you get? Oh, a freerunner. as opposed to: a g-t-a-0-2 neo1-9-7-3
Jan 07 15:34:18 <spydon> yeah
Jan 07 15:34:37 <spydon> it was a long time since the last community update...
Jan 07 15:35:08 <mwester> Yeah, OM have been quiet lately.
Jan 07 15:35:13 <El_Salvador> news from ces 2008?
Jan 07 15:35:19 * mwester hasn't even had an argument with roh recently ;) :D
Jan 07 15:36:40 <spydon> is ces the same as Consumer Electronics Trade Show? :P
Jan 07 15:36:54 <cb23> spydon, 02?
Jan 07 15:37:10 <spydon> 02? :P
Jan 07 15:37:57 <El_Salvador> <spydon> is ces the same as Consumer Electronics Trade Show? :P
Jan 07 15:38:01 <El_Salvador> maybe :P
Jan 07 15:38:45 <spydon> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events
Jan 07 15:38:49 <spydon> the thing today :P
Jan 07 15:47:41 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03chris * r3782 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): 
Jan 07 15:47:41 <CIA-15> openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds):
Jan 07 15:47:41 <CIA-15> openmoko: Don't check the stat of the delivery report, no need as we have the ref
Jan 07 15:47:41 <CIA-15> openmoko: anyway and I must be misinterpreting its meaning. Also switch around a
Jan 07 15:47:42 <CIA-15> openmoko: debug comment to make it more clear.
Jan 07 15:52:01 <balrog-kun> mbuf: yeah, a number of people reported the same issue before it was magically starting to work at some point, after making some empty files in the right places afaik
Jan 07 15:52:19 <balrog-kun> s/it/but \&/
Jan 07 15:52:19 <apt> balrog-kun meant: mbuf: yeah, a number of people reported the same issue before but \& was magically starting to work at some point, after making some empty files in the right places afaik
Jan 07 15:52:26 <mbuf> balrog-kun, thanks!
Jan 07 15:52:42 <balrog-kun> mbuf: i can only assume it's a MokoMakefile issue
Jan 07 15:52:43 <mbuf> balrog-kun, do you have any TODO tasks for qemu?
Jan 07 15:52:56 <mbuf> balrog-kun,  i see
Jan 07 15:53:14 <balrog-kun> mbuf: well, there is a couple of bugzilla bugs open that form my TODO
Jan 07 15:53:25 <mbuf> balrog-kun, ok
Jan 07 15:54:05 <balrog-kun> (but that's stalled at the moment, in favour of a different project)
Jan 07 15:56:12 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03chris * r3783 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c): 
Jan 07 15:56:12 <CIA-15> openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (stop_retrying),
Jan 07 15:56:12 <CIA-15> openmoko: (on_network_registered), (moko_network_dispose):
Jan 07 15:56:12 <CIA-15> openmoko: Fix possible infinite retrying(?), increase time-out to 15 seconds
Jan 07 17:02:00 <teprrr> hello, does anyone know if it's possible to build openmoko-devel-image with ubuntu?
Jan 07 17:05:11 <wurp2> teprrr: Can't you just use the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ?
Jan 07 17:05:52 <wurp2> There are some known issues where the build stalls trying a fetch, and you have to dig around and find the file name, then search the web for the file & download to your cache directory manually, but other than that I think it should "just work"
Jan 07 17:06:54 <teprrr> wurp2, I'm using it already.. make openmoko-devel-image is what fails on NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0-r0: task do_rootfs: failed
Jan 07 17:07:20 <teprrr> if I run mkfs.jffs2 command myself, I'll get mkfs.jffs2: Unknown compressor name lzo
Jan 07 17:07:34 <teprrr> and using the mkfs.jffs2 inside the builddir, bash: ./build/tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/mkfs.jffs2: cannot execute binary file
Jan 07 17:07:46 <teprrr> (not compiled for this arch I think)
Jan 07 17:09:06 <wurp2> Do you see a 'fetch failed' error before that do_rootfs: failed?
Jan 07 17:09:46 <wurp2> I'm not sure I can be much help if you're past that... I got to the fetch problem and didn't know the solution until recently, and haven't gotten back to it.
Jan 07 17:09:59 <wurp2> s/much help/any help/
Jan 07 17:09:59 <apt> wurp2 meant: I'm not sure I can be any help if you're past that... I got to the fetch problem and didn't know the solution until recently, and haven't gotten back to it.
Jan 07 17:11:35 <teprrr> wurp2, nope, this is all I got: http://pastebin.com/d3a36c9fc
Jan 07 17:13:54 <teprrr> and in that log file I have: Aborted (core dumped)
Jan 07 17:14:10 <wurp2> yeah, yuck
Jan 07 17:20:22 <wurp2> teprrr: Sorry, I dunno anything about it.  Did you just start the build this time, or have you build MokoMakefile before?
Jan 07 17:21:05 <wurp2> 'cause if you've done it before I would suggest the obvious - following the clean & rebuild steps outlined in the MokoMakefile page.  And that's the last of the obvious advice I have :-)
Jan 07 17:21:12 <teprrr> wurp2, I've been MokoMakefile all the time, but haven't yet gotten it to complete :P
Jan 07 17:21:32 <wurp2> That's kind of scary, since I'm behind you on it.
Jan 07 17:23:02 <teprrr> I suppose that's the last phase before it's completed, but.. damn :)
Jan 07 17:23:09 <teprrr> so near, but so far
Jan 07 17:23:28 <teprrr> I wouldn't mind running it through gdb if I knew how to do it
Jan 07 17:24:13 <wurp2> Hmm, do you actually have a core file?
Jan 07 17:24:17 <wurp2> The message says core dumped
Jan 07 17:24:35 <wurp2> If you were interested in running through gdb, it seems instead you could just load the core with gdb
Jan 07 17:25:03 <teprrr> tpr@lumi:~/openmoko$ find . -type f -name core
Jan 07 17:25:04 <teprrr> tpr@lumi:~/openmoko$
Jan 07 17:25:10 <teprrr> looks like I don't have that, though hmm
Jan 07 17:25:18 <teprrr> perhaps ubuntu is configured per default not to dump cores..
Jan 07 17:27:07 <teprrr> nah, it isn't inside /var/crash either
Jan 07 17:29:06 <teprrr> oh, looks like /var/crash is only being populated with something ubuntu specific called apport.. so that's not the right place to look at
Jan 07 17:29:34 <wurp2> Yeah, I have noticed that I don't seem to get core files any more, but I haven't really wanted them so I haven't looked into why.
Jan 07 17:30:56 <teprrr> yup, I think it's because some ulimit setting, iirc
Jan 07 17:31:39 <teprrr> yup, ulimit -a displays the max blocksize as 0
Jan 07 17:35:12 <teprrr> ok, got the core file..
Jan 07 17:35:55 <joejaxx> i tried going to d.o.c but it is inaccessible, but can anyone confirm for me that the consumer version of GTA01 is indeed 600 usd?
Jan 07 17:36:56 <teprrr> Core was generated by `mkfs.jffs2 -x lzo --root=/home/tpr/openmoko/build/tmp/rootfs --faketime --outpu'.
Jan 07 17:37:00 <teprrr> Program terminated with signal 6, Aborted.
Jan 07 17:37:02 <teprrr> #0  0x00002b34a4fe6095 in ?? ()
Jan 07 17:37:02 <teprrr> that doesn't help much :/
Jan 07 17:41:32 <wurp2> Consumer version of gta01 is $300 w/o debugger toolkit, $400 with
Jan 07 17:41:36 <kdean06> joejaxx, Neo Base is $300 USD and Neo Advance is currently $399 (Both prices in USD)
Jan 07 17:41:59 <wurp2> teprrr: no kidding
Jan 07 17:42:19 <wurp2> teprrr: The weird thing is that it doesn't core dump when you issue the same command from the command line.
Jan 07 17:42:29 <joejaxx> kdean06: ok thanks :)
Jan 07 17:42:32 <teprrr> wurp2, heh. well, I don't know which mkfs.jffs2 it does run actually..
Jan 07 17:43:09 <wurp2> joejaxx: I shouldn't say consumer version (and neither should you...) since gta01 is for developers only
Jan 07 17:43:12 <teprrr> wurp2, but the one inside the builddir is: build/tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/mkfs.jffs2: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
Jan 07 17:43:22 <wurp2> ah
Jan 07 17:43:31 <teprrr> /usr/sbin/mkfs.jffs2: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped that's the other one
Jan 07 17:43:34 <wurp2> So the one you run from cmd line is not the same as the one the makefile is running
Jan 07 17:43:43 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hey!
Jan 07 17:43:56 <wurp2> Your machine is 64 bit?
Jan 07 17:43:57 <teprrr> different arch, so I can't run it myself even
Jan 07 17:44:02 <teprrr> yup, 64b system
Jan 07 17:44:12 <wurp2> I think I heard that mokomakefile has issues with 64 bit...
Jan 07 17:44:43 <CM> josch: Sweden of course! ;)
Jan 07 17:44:49 <wurp2> Oh, but the makefile definitely shouldn't be running the one that it built
Jan 07 17:44:54 <joejaxx> wurp2: yes but i thought a consumer usable version was slated for the end of december/early january that is the only reason i used that term :)
Jan 07 17:45:02 <wurp2> since that's for the neo
Jan 07 17:45:04 <CM> wurp2: No, it has been working fine on 64bit for me
Jan 07 17:45:24 <wurp2> joejaxx: Then it's not the GTA01, it has to be the 02/FreeRunner
Jan 07 17:45:34 <wurp2> joejaxx: And I don't think we know the pricing on that yet.
Jan 07 17:45:41 <wurp2> CM: OK, thanks, that's good info.
Jan 07 17:46:09 <wurp2> joejaxx: And now the consumer hardware is due in "the spring" (see topic of channel) and I dunno any estimate on consumer ready software.
Jan 07 17:46:17 <phed__> how is the openmoko vs Qtopia stuff working out?
Jan 07 17:46:26 <joejaxx> wurp2: yeap :)
Jan 07 17:46:29 <joejaxx> wurp2: thanks
Jan 07 17:46:29 <phed__> it doesn't seem qtopia was made with touchscreen in mind : \
Jan 07 17:46:55 <teprrr> wurp2, well, the one my system has has no support for lzo at all :P
Jan 07 17:47:01 <CM> phed__: I think they cooperate some, and ljp in here is working on qtopia :)
Jan 07 17:47:06 <wurp2> phed__: My big hangup with qtopia was the lack of docs on how to deal w/ gps, etc from command line, and the total lack of a command line :-)
Jan 07 17:47:15 <phed__> aha.
Jan 07 17:47:43 <phed__> well, I certainly recognize that QT4 is superior to GTK. Especially when accellerated. (on desktop that is)
Jan 07 17:47:58 <wurp2> teprrr: I saw a post on the web saying the lzo message is by design, which really made little sense to me.
Jan 07 17:48:16 <phed__> preliminary tests by a friend on how each of the TKs handled massive amount of primitives was strongly in favour of QT4
Jan 07 17:48:16 <CM> Several in here are dualbooting openmoko and qtopia
Jan 07 17:48:24 <phed__> oh nice
Jan 07 17:48:29 <teprrr> wurp2, yup, saw something while googling, but it didn't made much sense to me either
Jan 07 17:48:34 <wurp2> phed__: qtopia felt much more polished, and the support that was there worked better, but no gps, no command line, and no video player were show stoppers for me
Jan 07 17:48:35 <phed__> I'm thinking of making a neo my next phone so
Jan 07 17:48:47 <teprrr> and no mp3 player
Jan 07 17:48:53 <teprrr> btw, any ideas if it can play even ogg or something?
Jan 07 17:49:01 <CM> phed__: Yeah, just hope the gta02 will be available soon
Jan 07 17:49:10 <CM> teprrr: It plays oggs
Jan 07 17:49:10 <wurp2> teprrr: I could play mp3s on qtopia
Jan 07 17:49:13 <wurp2> with the build I got
Jan 07 17:49:41 * CM goes back to putting up shelves in the new apartment
Jan 07 17:49:42 <teprrr> wurp2, hmm, with the build I tried it didn't
Jan 07 17:49:50 <balrog-kun> it can play anything your pc can play
Jan 07 17:49:51 <wurp2> teprrr: I don't understand why it's trying to run mkfs.jffs2 on your host machine anyway...
Jan 07 17:50:01 <phed__> CM: Yeah, I'm anxiously waiting for an update on that :)
Jan 07 17:50:10 <wurp2> teprrr: I used one of the custom builds (I think it was from 12/19)
Jan 07 17:50:30 <wurp2> afk 4 a bit...
Jan 07 17:50:34 <teprrr> wurp2, I don't know if it's running that one. but why wouldn't it run mkfs.jffs2? isn't the image jffs2 formated?
Jan 07 17:50:44 <teprrr> I mean, the image I should send to the device
Jan 07 17:51:33 <wurp2> teprrr: Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I thought mkfs was used to put the file system on a partition.  Is it also used to create a file that is properly formatted to be slapped on a partition?
Jan 07 17:51:46 <wurp2> I guess it would be...
Jan 07 17:52:04 <wurp2> I haven't done cross platform development (yet)
Jan 07 17:52:12 <teprrr> wurp2, yup, mkfs can be used for a file too
Jan 07 17:52:18 <teprrr> or at least I've done so :P
Jan 07 17:52:32 <balrog-kun> wurp2: mkfs is not used to put the filesystem on a partition
Jan 07 17:52:33 <wurp2> teprrr: But in any case, that ARM formatted mkfs binary is not the one it should be running :-)
Jan 07 17:52:38 <balrog-kun> it just makes a filesystem
Jan 07 17:52:45 <wurp2> Ah, so my ignorance is complete :-)
Jan 07 17:52:47 <balrog-kun> it doesn't care where it's making it
Jan 07 17:53:10 <wurp2> balrog-kun: Thanks
Jan 07 17:53:39 <teprrr> wurp2, yup, and I doubt it's running that one.. but I doubt it is running my system one neither..
Jan 07 17:53:41 <balrog-kun> np
Jan 07 17:53:58 <teprrr> ahh, /home/tpr/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/bin/mkfs.jffs2 :o
Jan 07 17:54:24 <teprrr> yup, it's that one it's running
Jan 07 17:55:15 <teprrr> http://pastebin.com/d5b6794c8 the backtrace :p
Jan 07 17:55:35 <teprrr> buggy libc6?!
Jan 07 17:56:27 <wurp2> That makes sense
Jan 07 17:57:06 <wurp2> teprrr: I mean, not the buggy libc6, which mkfs it was running makes sense
Jan 07 17:59:50 <teprrr> yup, it sure does :)
Jan 07 17:59:58 <teprrr> but I have no idea why it's crashing :I
Jan 07 18:02:30 <phed__> btw, I kinda remember there being work on a new Opengl ES interface from some entity
Jan 07 18:02:46 <phed__> ie. no more Mesa
Jan 07 18:02:54 <phed__> + it would serve as a ground for a new Opengl 3.0 interface
Jan 07 18:03:02 <phed__> but I cannot for the love of god find it again :(
Jan 07 18:44:21 <Gareth> windu: 14
Jan 07 18:44:24 <Gareth> er
Jan 07 18:50:23 <Kero> any tools that can munch some /tmp/nmeaNP data and draw it on some map?
Jan 07 18:51:38 <SpeedEvil> Kero: wiki.openstreetmap.org
Jan 07 18:51:51 <SpeedEvil> Kero: gpsbabel to go from NMEA logs to GPX
Jan 07 18:52:01 <SpeedEvil> load into JOSM - the mapping applet.
Jan 07 18:52:02 <wurp2> http://www.mauve.plus.com/simple.awk will translate NMEA logs to lat/lon
Jan 07 18:52:09 <SpeedEvil> Or that.
Jan 07 18:52:16 * SpeedEvil forgot about that.
Jan 07 18:52:28 <SpeedEvil> and then gnuplot
Jan 07 18:52:51 <wurp2> and then you can get pretty close to plotting X/Y by scaling the latitude by the cos of the longitude
Jan 07 18:53:23 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jan 07 18:53:30 <wurp2> Over normal scales, the longitude won't really vary from the bottom to the top of the map
Jan 07 18:54:13 <SpeedEvil> Or you can plot on gnuplot on a spherical plot.
Jan 07 18:54:20 <SpeedEvil> which is a bit pointless usually
Jan 07 18:54:51 <Kero> hehe; thx for the pointers
Jan 07 18:54:55 <wurp2> I need to play more with gnuplot
Jan 07 18:54:56 <SpeedEvil> I just use plot "data" using (0.75*$1):2 or something
Jan 07 18:55:21 <SpeedEvil> to plot 0.75*the first column against the second
Jan 07 19:16:08 <Gareth> has anyone seen/heard from Raster lately?
Jan 07 19:21:17 <stefan_schmidt> Gareth: He is in the internet-less australia atm
Jan 07 19:22:03 <stefan_schmidt> Gareth: Somehow it is really difficult for the ISPs there to give him internet access. For at least 1,5 month now. Impressive.
Jan 07 19:23:02 <inwoo> anyone have issues with openmoko-terminal2 not downloading
Jan 07 19:26:49 <teprrr> downloaded just fine earlier
Jan 07 19:27:11 <inwoo> odd, is there a way to update the bitbake files to see if the urls are correct?
Jan 07 19:30:38 <inwoo> actually, svn says the target machine actively refused me...
Jan 07 19:31:04 <teprrr> no idea about that, sorry
Jan 07 19:31:43 <inwoo> thanks ... i think i figured it out though
Jan 07 19:33:29 <josch> CM, great! and what makes sweden better than norway?
Jan 07 19:33:49 <CM> Hehe.. So many things.. ;)
Jan 07 19:33:58 <CM> The food being nr 1 I think..
Jan 07 19:34:08 <CM> The norwegians just eat sandwiches all the time
Jan 07 19:34:11 <CM> ;)
Jan 07 19:34:31 <CM> flexd: Isn't that right?
Jan 07 19:34:48 <teprrr> swedes have a stupid language ;I
Jan 07 19:34:51 <CM> josch: Also, we're in EU so things are a lot cheaper and it's easier to get around
Jan 07 19:34:52 <Gareth> stefan_schmidt: Okay. thanks.  
Jan 07 19:35:06 <CM> teprrr: Pffft... (Bork bork bork..)
Jan 07 19:35:15 <teprrr> /me haven't stopped hating his mandatory swedish courses
Jan 07 19:35:47 <CM> teprrr: I can imagine that :-/
Jan 07 19:37:25 <teprrr> still one more to go and then I'm free of that shit :P
Jan 07 19:38:13 <flexd> CM: hmm? what? huh?
Jan 07 19:38:18 <flexd> I eat food.
Jan 07 19:39:20 <josch> well then expect me in sweden in a year or so :-D
Jan 07 19:39:29 <flexd> but
Jan 07 19:39:32 <flexd> Norway > Sweden
Jan 07 19:39:39 <flexd> and we are not EU
Jan 07 19:39:42 <flexd> which makes us great
Jan 07 19:39:52 <flexd> yet we follow eu rules better than any country IN EU
Jan 07 19:39:56 <flexd> kinda funny huh?
Jan 07 19:41:50 <teprrr> here in finland we even overimplement the directives!
Jan 07 19:42:27 <thomasg> here in timbuktu we kick asses
Jan 07 19:43:36 <teprrr> hmm, how can I generate contents of staging directory again?
Jan 07 19:44:26 <teprrr> make build-package-mtd-utils didn't help, after I removed mkfs.jffs2..
Jan 07 19:46:32 <haakeyar> haakeyar.agreeTo(flexd.latestStatements);
Jan 07 19:46:51 <flexd> god that's awfully C#/java :(
Jan 07 19:47:15 <haakeyar> :P
Jan 07 19:48:05 <flexd> haakeyar->agreeTo(flexd,&latestStatements);
Jan 07 19:48:16 <flexd> see, that wont even compile
Jan 07 19:48:20 <flexd> and yet it's shinier.
Jan 07 19:50:14 <CM> flexd: That's norwegian thinking.. ;)
Jan 07 19:50:44 <haakeyar> Which language is that? The only language I know that uses -> for for object members is PHP.
Jan 07 19:50:53 <haakeyar> Maybe I should learn some more languages. 
Jan 07 19:50:57 <flexd> that's why all norwegian girls compare to my shiny code, and the swedish ones are like..
Jan 07 19:51:00 <flexd> lisp
Jan 07 19:51:01 <CM> c maybe :)
Jan 07 19:51:05 <flexd> haakeyar: c++!
Jan 07 19:51:16 <flexd> but brb
Jan 07 19:51:26 <flexd> irssi has made a booboo and broken my hilight window
Jan 07 19:51:30 <flexd> so i need to restart
Jan 07 19:51:36 * CM goes for a walk
Jan 07 19:52:10 <SpeedEvil> We await the GPS track. :)
Jan 07 19:52:47 <teprrr> any ideas what I could do after I have deleted build/tmp/staging/?
Jan 07 19:53:23 <haakeyar> Flexd: Hm... I guess I never got to OO when I read a chapter or two in a C++ book. But really? I though they used .
Jan 07 19:53:25 <teprrr> ie. how to force MokoMakefile to build it again
Jan 07 19:53:34 <flexd> haakeyar: both actually
Jan 07 19:53:59 <flexd> I'm quite new myself, so i have no idea what's the diffrence between -> and ., but both are used
Jan 07 19:54:04 <haakeyar> Ah, that explains it. :)
Jan 07 19:54:33 <I-MOD> -> is used on a pointer
Jan 07 19:54:46 <I-MOD> . is used on something that has no references iirc
Jan 07 19:55:29 <teprrr> or do I really have to recompile everything? remove everything except MokoMakefile and start all from beginning? I have already compiled most of the stuff which is going to the device...
Jan 07 19:56:11 <teprrr> flexd, Plah *plah = new Plah(); plah->something(); Bleh bleh; bleh.something();
Jan 07 19:56:50 <flexd> teprrr: aha, well that' expains it :)
Jan 07 19:58:44 <teprrr> or at least that's how it works in c++ :)
Jan 07 19:59:01 <teprrr> haakeyar, c also uses -> for struct "members2
Jan 07 19:59:05 <teprrr> s/2/"/
Jan 07 19:59:05 <apt> teprrr meant: haakeyar, c also uses -> for struct "members"
Jan 07 19:59:14 <teprrr> test test test
Jan 07 19:59:25 <teprrr> s/^test/test2/
Jan 07 19:59:30 <teprrr> s/test/test2/
Jan 07 19:59:30 <apt> teprrr meant: test2 test test
Jan 07 19:59:36 <teprrr> duh, it doesn't respect regexps? ;I
Jan 07 20:00:00 <cjb_ie> did you mean s/test/test2/g
Jan 07 20:00:52 <teprrr> nah, just wanted to test that one
Jan 07 20:04:02 <flexd> meh i wish i new regexp stuff
Jan 07 20:04:14 <flexd> it's all a big blob of confusion for me :p
Jan 07 20:05:55 <teprrr> regexps are quite nice sometimes, though I always need to use a cheatsheet to generate something more than some basic ones
Jan 07 20:08:27 <erko> Hi all, anyone have any luck getting GPRS working?  I'm trying with T-mobile (U.S.).
Jan 07 20:08:33 <flexd> teprrr: yeah me too, but mine never work anyway :s
Jan 07 20:08:51 <flexd> btw, do anyone of you know openmoko/the neo works in australia?
Jan 07 20:09:06 <flexd> I'm planning on moving in about a year, would suck to get there and be phoneless :(
Jan 07 20:13:39 <teprrr> ahm, removal of build/tmp/stamps/x86_64 did the trick :)
Jan 07 20:27:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1165 has been created by audriusa(AT)bluewin.ch
Jan 07 20:27:02 <cdbot2> * * The console-only applications fail to start in terminal from menu
Jan 07 20:27:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1165
Jan 07 20:29:57 <josch> how many screws do I have to remove to open my neo?
Jan 07 20:30:06 <josch> I'm in the middle of unbricking it
Jan 07 20:30:13 <mmontour> josch: 2 screws
Jan 07 20:30:19 <josch> I also couldn't find a wiki page about it
Jan 07 20:30:35 <josch> mmontour, ah k thx - removed those two but it still feels hard to open
Jan 07 20:30:51 <SpeedEvil> It is.
Jan 07 20:30:55 <SpeedEvil> How I did it.
Jan 07 20:31:06 <josch> could it be that those two screws are of different size? I used two different screwdrivers to get them out
Jan 07 20:31:13 <mmontour> After removing the screws you use the guitar pick. There's a "disassembling" page somewhere on the wiki
Jan 07 20:31:16 <SpeedEvil> press thumbnail into aux button
Jan 07 20:31:24 <SpeedEvil> and run it down the edge of the case
Jan 07 20:31:25 <Vegar> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973
Jan 07 20:31:31 <josch> Vegar, ah thx
Jan 07 20:31:32 <SpeedEvil> I never used the pick.
Jan 07 20:32:13 <mmontour> The pick worked well for me. 
Jan 07 20:32:27 <ahven> the Finger works well enough :)
Jan 07 20:33:48 <mmontour> Once you get it open, refer to the "Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2" wiki page
Jan 07 20:36:41 <josch> wow I got it open now
Jan 07 20:37:08 <josch> rly hard to do it - I hope I never have to do it again
Jan 07 20:42:04 <cruso> hi! is anything known about the battery lifetime of the GTA01 ?
Jan 07 20:46:49 <mwester> Yes.  It's very poor right now.
Jan 07 20:51:02 <kdean06> mwester, What are you getting right now, on average?
Jan 07 20:55:14 <balrog-kun> i think it's about 6 hours with all components powered up constantly, with the stock battery
Jan 07 20:55:17 <balrog-kun> which is not bad
Jan 07 20:55:22 <josch> Error:   jtag.c:1370 jtag_init(): No valid jtag interface found (ft2232)
Jan 07 20:55:23 <josch> Error:   jtag.c:1371 jtag_init(): compiled-in jtag interfaces:
Jan 07 20:55:23 <josch> Error:   jtag.c:1374 jtag_init(): 0: amt_jtagaccel
Jan 07 20:55:26 <josch> any suggestions?
Jan 07 20:56:03 <mwester> kdean06:  It varies - one battery is about 4 hours, the other about what balrog-kun is seeing (6 with no activity)
Jan 07 20:56:12 <josch> I used the binary provided here: http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/dpkg/
Jan 07 20:56:15 <inwoo> is there a way to make sure that openmoko compiles using all my cpus? i've edited the parallel_make and the bb_number_threads but it still is single threaded building.
Jan 07 20:57:20 * balrog-kun doesn't have the stock battery and thus never got to 6 hours :(
Jan 07 20:57:24 <josch> and I used this config: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openocd#openocd.cfg
Jan 07 20:57:41 <kdean06> And is that due to crappy power management software side, or a hardware "issue"?
Jan 07 20:58:00 <balrog-kun> kdean06: mostly software
Jan 07 20:58:12 <kdean06> Cool. :) 
Jan 07 20:58:31 <mwester> Yeah, but it's *tricky* software ;)
Jan 07 20:58:36 <kdean06> I'm so ready to have my Neo.
Jan 07 20:58:48 <josch> I have /dev/ttyUSB0+1 but lsusb doesn't show the debug board
Jan 07 20:59:02 <balrog-kun> but you know, if the software side of something is not working that means that the hardware hasn't been tested and thus may have bugs too
Jan 07 20:59:20 <balrog-kun> the hardware can only be tested if there's software to test it
Jan 07 20:59:30 <josch> ideas?
Jan 07 21:00:07 <kdean06> True, but I've got more faith in programmers. ;)
Jan 07 21:01:00 * mwester agrees with balrog-kun, notiing the recent problems with GPIO's glitching on save/resume that have been uncovered in the stock 2.6.23 kernel...
Jan 07 21:02:09 <josch> :-(
Jan 07 21:02:21 <josch> nobody cares for poor josch :-/
Jan 07 21:03:25 <balrog-kun> yea, same happened with the modem 850 MHz range, the Glamo IRQ pin which missed a pullup and more times
Jan 07 21:04:51 * mwester has no ideas to offer poor josch
Jan 07 21:07:22 <cruso> and what about the stand by time? (battery) ?
Jan 07 21:09:29 <balrog-kun> see above - no software available to put the device into real standby, so not known
Jan 07 21:10:03 <mmontour> josch: ttyUSB0 is the JTAG interface, ttyUSB1 is the serial port
Jan 07 21:10:36 <josch> I have both but why is openocd failing?
Jan 07 21:10:44 <josch> I need it, right?
Jan 07 21:10:46 <mmontour> Please try the instructions on the "Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2" and its "/Unbricking" sub-page first - those are more recent than some of the others
Jan 07 21:11:25 <mmontour> Yes, you need openocd. It's built by MokoMakefile (the openmoko-devel-tools target) and that's the best way to get an up-to-date version
Jan 07 21:12:20 <josch> does anybody have an x86-64 version at hand? my build machine is off for now
Jan 07 21:12:36 <josch> I used LaF0rge's deb package as said earlier
Jan 07 21:15:54 <drath> ttyUSB0 isn't really the JTAG interface - the OpenOCD communicates directly with the hardware via libusb (through libftdi or FTD2XX)
Jan 07 21:16:51 <mmontour> ttyUSB0 is involved somehow - it shows up when the board is plugged in, and disappears the first time that openocd is run
Jan 07 21:18:18 <mmontour> josch: if you do "lsusb -v" as root, do you see the "Debug Board for Neo1973" description string for device ID 1457:5118?
Jan 07 21:18:19 <drath> heh, yeah, the ft2232 has two channels - initially both are used by the ftdi_sio module as UARTs, and if you don't have any other USB UARTs they end up as ttyUSB[01]
Jan 07 21:18:52 <drath> but having ttyUSB0 doesn't necessarily mean that the FT2232 is working - could be any other USB serial interface
Jan 07 21:18:58 <josch> mmontour, yes it's there
Jan 07 21:19:21 <drath> josch: guess you're lacking the appropriate permissions on the procusbfs entries
Jan 07 21:19:27 <drath> josch: could you try running the OpenOCD as root?
Jan 07 21:19:32 <josch> abraxa_ just gave me this blog entry be CM and he seems to have had the same error message by openocd: http://informationhunger.blogspot.com/2007/12/openmoko-debug-board.html
Jan 07 21:19:40 <mmontour> And you have that same string as "ft2232_device_desc" in openocd.cfg?
Jan 07 21:19:52 <josch> no running as root results in the same
Jan 07 21:20:32 <josch> mmontour, I copied openocd.cfg from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openocd#openocd.cfg
Jan 07 21:20:58 <drath> josch: it's failing with the "No valid jtag interface found" message you pasted above?
Jan 07 21:21:02 <josch> drath, it's no other interface - when I unplug the debug board it's gone
Jan 07 21:21:36 <josch> drath, right - the same error message as in CM's blog post
Jan 07 21:23:08 <mmontour> Did you also add the "ft2232_device_desc" line that's mentioned just below that example config?
Jan 07 21:23:17 <drath> josch: hmm, what's written in the blog doesn't make much sense for me, but it's of course possible that there's a bug left that causes this misleading error
Jan 07 21:23:40 <josch> I have ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973"
Jan 07 21:24:32 <mmontour> OK, that should be right. It may be an issue with your openocd binary (I don't have an x86-64 system so I can't help there)
Jan 07 21:35:40 <teprrr> wurp2, finally got it compiled. commented out that free() call completely from the code
Jan 07 21:36:38 <josch> hum I'll just wait for CM coming back then :-)
Jan 07 21:37:24 <josch> drath, mmontour thanks for your help so far - I really didn't expect to get my neo debricked so easily ^^
Jan 07 21:38:20 <drath> josch: would be great if you could keep me posted on this - if there's a bug i'd like to get it fixed, there've been several reports of this behaviour, but the code in that area is quite clean, and doesn't explain the behaviour you're seeing
Jan 07 21:41:58 <josch> drath, no problem - if you'd like me to try somethink - just say so
Jan 07 21:44:32 <drath> josch: do you have the source tree available, with the config.log? (/me has no idea how openmoko/mokomakefile builds the OpenOCD)
Jan 07 21:53:30 <mmontour> josch: if you want, you can try my openocd from http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/openocd
Jan 07 21:56:59 <josch> drath, I build openmoko with mokomakefile but I cannot access the machine right now - will ping you if I looked it up
Jan 07 21:59:24 <josch> mmontour, with your binary I get this error:
Jan 07 21:59:25 <josch> Error:   ft2232.c:1475 ft2232_init_libftdi(): unable to open ftdi device: unable to fetch product description
Jan 07 22:01:24 <mmontour> Running as root?
Jan 07 22:01:58 <josch> IT WORKS!!
Jan 07 22:02:07 <josch> WOHOOOOO!
Jan 07 22:02:12 <josch> running as root did the job
Jan 07 22:03:50 <drath> josch: did you try "
Jan 07 22:03:56 <drath> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board#udev_rule
Jan 07 22:05:29 <josch> drath, no the other binary worked flawless
Jan 07 22:05:42 <josch> I just had to specify the config file via -f
Jan 07 22:06:35 <Ghiottone> hello
Jan 07 22:06:37 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, ping
Jan 07 22:06:40 <drath> josch: yeah, but as root - using the udev rule should allow you to run as a normal user
Jan 07 22:07:05 <josch> ah okay
Jan 07 22:07:19 <josch> well anyway it was because of wrong openocd version
Jan 07 22:07:40 <josch> which uboot version should I pick? is there a wiki page about it?
Jan 07 22:08:37 <balrog-kun> yes, there has been a site listing known-to-work u-boot versions
Jan 07 22:08:55 <balrog-kun> i heard the very latest versions work well too
Jan 07 22:09:03 <balrog-kun> some bugfixing has been done
Jan 07 22:09:30 <mmontour> You can use one of my builds from http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/u-boot/
Jan 07 22:09:42 <josch> mmontour, great thanks!
Jan 07 22:10:14 <josch> side question: is there any uboot that can boot from sdhc now or do I still have to boot a kernel from internel flash?
Jan 07 22:10:38 <mmontour> That one will boot from SD (not sure about SDHC specifically as I only have a 2G card)
Jan 07 22:11:05 <josch> wait - lowlevel foo is only about 1K ???
Jan 07 22:11:53 <mmontour> Yes, it's less than 1K (just enough to initialize the device to the point where you can upload u-boot to RAM)
Jan 07 22:16:16 <MuffY> with lot's of important Dutch buildings replicated in a 1:10 scale or sowething
Jan 07 22:16:29 <MuffY> oooops
Jan 07 22:19:00 <josch> what's a nice terminal emulator I can use for the serial and usb console?
Jan 07 22:19:43 <Vegar> screen?
Jan 07 22:19:55 <mmontour> 'screen' is probably the easiest. I also use minicom.
Jan 07 22:24:48 <josch> with what arguments do I run screen when connecting to /dev/ttyUSB1 ? I found nothing when quickly searching the man page
Jan 07 22:26:47 <balrog-kun> i think the baud rate and the path only
Jan 07 22:27:09 <balrog-kun> screen 9600 /dev/ttyUSB1 or /dev/ttyUSB1 9600
Jan 07 22:27:44 <teprrr> hmm, any ideas what could case the X server not to start?
Jan 07 22:27:51 <teprrr> s/case/cause/
Jan 07 22:27:51 <apt> teprrr meant: hmm, any ideas what could cause the X server not to start?
Jan 07 22:28:06 <teprrr> I got the login on vt1 though
Jan 07 22:31:57 <mmontour> teprrr: installing 'bash' as /bin/sh will do that (as I found out yesterday, though I'm not sure why it did that)
Jan 07 22:32:31 <mmontour> josch: screen /dev/ttyUSB1 115200 (it might also work at 9600 baud - I never tried that)
Jan 07 22:32:50 <teprrr> mmontour, hmm, so currently it's that way in the vcs also?
Jan 07 22:33:44 <mmontour> teprrr: no, I was just messing around with my own installation
Jan 07 22:34:20 <josch> mmontour, it worked at 9600 but with funny output ^^
Jan 07 22:35:18 <teprrr> mmontour, ah. I just did make openmoko-devel-image and flashed the images to the device.
Jan 07 22:35:27 <teprrr> just wondering if I'm missing something
Jan 07 22:35:51 <teprrr> build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 is the correct rootfs, right?
Jan 07 22:36:13 <teprrr> which links to OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080107-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Jan 07 22:36:37 <mmontour> Yes, that's correct. Can you log in with ssh? If so, try "/etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart" and see if it gives you any useful error messages
Jan 07 22:37:28 <mmontour> Also, what version of u-boot are you using? With really old ones you need to do a "nand erase rootfs" from the u-boot console before flashing the image.
Jan 07 22:37:54 <josch> hum... screen sais it cannot find a PTY when I try to connect to /dev/ttyUSB1 after uploading uboot into neo ram
Jan 07 22:38:02 <teprrr> I tried the nand erase rootfs trick already, didn't work
Jan 07 22:40:46 <teprrr> looks I can't ssh or even ping the device
Jan 07 22:40:53 <josch> okay rebooted neo now it seems to work again
Jan 07 22:41:28 <rbs-tito> So is the Neo not goiing to get wifi?
Jan 07 22:41:38 <Vegar> rbs-tito: read the topic
Jan 07 22:41:44 <teprrr> rbs-tito, gta02 will have it, no?
Jan 07 22:41:47 <Stephmw> .. yeah, what Vegar said
Jan 07 22:41:52 <Stephmw> teprrr: ^^
Jan 07 22:42:09 <teprrr> hmm, looks like /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko1/modules.dep is missing..
Jan 07 22:42:14 <Vegar> so what's the average boot time of a neo?
Jan 07 22:43:04 <teprrr> and I'm getting PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 and same for vcsa1.. 
Jan 07 22:43:33 <teprrr> mount point /dev/shm doesn't exists.. hwclock: could not access rtc: no such file or directory
Jan 07 22:43:38 <teprrr> perhaps some of those may cause it?
Jan 07 22:43:49 <teprrr> I can see that usb0 interface is up in the device
Jan 07 22:43:57 <josch> Skipping bad block at  0x03ff0000                                            
Jan 07 22:43:57 <josch> Skipping bad block at  0x03ff4000                                            
Jan 07 22:43:57 <josch> Skipping bad block at  0x03ff8000                                            
Jan 07 22:43:57 <josch> Skipping bad block at  0x03ffc000   <= are those bad?
Jan 07 22:44:15 <mmontour> teprrr: -moko1 sounds like a really old kernel. Mine is 2.6.22.5-moko11
Jan 07 22:44:19 <mmontour> josh: those are normal
Jan 07 22:44:53 <rbs-tito> What languages will be most useful for hacking on a neo?
Jan 07 22:44:58 <rbs-tito> I might buy one
Jan 07 22:45:31 <moo> rbs-tito, C I guess
Jan 07 22:45:53 <moo> all hardware sensitive code is C. UI is mainly gtk-c.
Jan 07 22:45:56 <ljp> or c++ is you use qtopia
Jan 07 22:46:03 * rbs-tito knows c++
Jan 07 22:46:32 <moo> rbs-tito: leap backward to C is not that difficult ;)
Jan 07 22:46:43 <teprrr> mmontour, ahh. sorry, I missed one '1'. it's -moko11
Jan 07 22:46:45 <rbs-tito> moo: Not really backward, they both have their uses
Jan 07 22:47:54 <moo> rbs-tito: Vala is the happy new competitor promising to be the silver bullet of GTK development
Jan 07 22:48:07 <josch> mmontour, okay I think I got everything set up correctly and I'm ready to use dfu-util - where can I get a slash.gz?
Jan 07 22:48:57 <rbs-tito> moo: The GNOME thing?
Jan 07 22:49:33 <moo> it's higher level thingy which compiles to C (and thus you can create nice native binaries)
Jan 07 22:49:50 <moo> and has native support for GTK base objects
Jan 07 22:50:42 <mmontour> josch: good question. It can be built with tools in the openmoko source tree, but I'm not sure where to find a downloadable version
Jan 07 22:51:19 <josch> okay but I guess if I came this far - there is nothing mush to do
Jan 07 22:51:34 <josch> is it too early to shout SUCCESS!! ?
Jan 07 22:51:49 <mwester> Murphy might hear you.
Jan 07 22:51:59 <mmontour> The splashscreen isn't critical for booting. Really all that matters is to have u-boot and the environment partition working, and you can fix the rest without the debug board.
Jan 07 22:52:33 <josch> mmontour, so if I'm at the step where dfu-util is used I can savely disconnect everything and boot normally?
Jan 07 22:52:51 <josch> into uboot
Jan 07 22:53:06 <josch> and then do dfu-util normally
Jan 07 22:54:35 <mmontour> Yes, you should be able to do everything else with just dfu-util and the u-boot USB console
Jan 07 22:54:53 <teprrr> mmontour, oh, and I can't power off it by pressing the power button
Jan 07 22:55:09 <teprrr> it just keeps yelling onkey_seconds message to the console
Jan 07 22:55:42 <mmontour> teprrr: that's a known bug. You'll have to unplug the USB then remove the battery.
Jan 07 22:58:30 <teprrr> ok, so that doesn't cause the bootup problem.. hmm
Jan 07 22:59:36 <teprrr> oh, I'm getting io error on dev mmcb1k0 after plugging my sd card in.. but that shouldn't matter I think
Jan 07 23:05:22 <josch> HELL IT BOOTS!!!!!!!! NEO DEBRICKED SUCCESSFULL!! WIN!
Jan 07 23:05:36 <zash> yay 4 u
Jan 07 23:06:49 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jan 07 23:08:20 <zash> will the gta02 ( aka freerunner ) be sold in an all black version, or is that the OMG-SHINY-version?
Jan 07 23:08:45 <SpeedEvil> It's only going to be available in hot-pink.
Jan 07 23:08:46 <josch> you guys should know this feeling to have a neo debricked - it feels great! going to open some sparkling wine now :-D
Jan 07 23:09:05 <Knirch> hotpink! <3
Jan 07 23:10:25 <josch> ah... openmoko... there it is again! I missed this gtk slowness!
Jan 07 23:11:01 <zash> the gtk-theme should be optimizded.. :/
Jan 07 23:12:32 * mwester wants one with flowers on, 1960's hippie-style.
Jan 07 23:13:28 <josch> zash, the problem is: gtk is slow with theming - just remove gtkrc and look at the speed you gain
Jan 07 23:37:13 <teprrr> OpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071118-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 seems to boot fine :o
Jan 07 23:41:52 <teprrr> yup, it did start fine
Jan 07 23:42:37 <teprrr> and even responds to ping, weehaa :)
Jan 07 23:46:04 <duffyd> hi, I'm getting 404 errors when doing an ipkg update && ipkg upgrade
Jan 07 23:46:04 <duffyd> is this a known issue?
Jan 07 23:49:06 <duffyd> if I try to access the urls directly they are in fact not found
Jan 07 23:52:10 <duffyd> i'm guessing some of the feeds have been changed recently :(
Jan 08 00:03:28 <MetaMorfoziS> gn
Jan 08 00:10:34 <Keizer> Hey guys
Jan 08 00:11:07 <Keizer> I keep getting the error cannot find -lftd2xx
Jan 08 00:18:42 <inwoo> is there a way to make sure that openmoko compiles using all my cpus? i've edited the parallel_make and the bb_number_threads but it still is single threaded building.
Jan 08 00:19:10 <tsuramoto> -jX?
Jan 08 00:19:41 <inwoo> i put "-j 4" into local.conf
Jan 08 00:19:46 <inwoo> but the builds still build single threaded
Jan 08 00:20:13 <CoreDump> inwoo: parallel_make != PARALLEL_MAKE in OE
Jan 08 00:20:19 <tsuramoto> no space
Jan 08 00:20:21 <tsuramoto> -j4
Jan 08 00:20:29 <CoreDump> capital letters
Jan 08 00:20:37 <inwoo> CoreDump: , it's like this in my config
Jan 08 00:20:39 <inwoo> PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4"
Jan 08 00:20:39 <inwoo> BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4"
Jan 08 00:20:48 <inwoo> no space then?
Jan 08 00:20:50 <tsuramoto> no space
Jan 08 00:21:26 <inwoo> i'll give that a try thanks tsuramoto
Jan 08 00:21:31 <inwoo> and CoreDump
Jan 08 00:21:51 <CoreDump> BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "16"
Jan 08 00:21:51 <CoreDump> PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 6"
Jan 08 00:21:57 <CoreDump> the above work for me
Jan 08 00:22:05 <inwoo> alright... i'll try that too
Jan 08 00:22:32 <inwoo> do i need to reload the conf file or anything?
Jan 08 00:22:50 <CVirus> What's the status of the wifi driver ?
Jan 08 00:22:53 <CoreDump> no, touching local.conf will make OE reparse automatically
Jan 08 00:23:08 <Keizer> Anyone here using Gentoo?
Jan 08 00:23:15 <tsuramoto> yes
Jan 08 00:23:20 <CVirus> me
Jan 08 00:23:25 <Keizer> tsuramoto: I'm trying to install openocd
Jan 08 00:23:50 <Keizer> I keep getting this error:
Jan 08 00:23:51 <Keizer> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.2.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libftd2xx.so when searching for -lftd2xx
Jan 08 00:24:00 <inwoo> CoreDump: thanks
Jan 08 00:24:15 <Keizer> Any help would be awesome
Jan 08 00:24:28 <CoreDump> you're welcome ;)
Jan 08 00:24:47 <inwoo> Keizer: i think i ran into that issue with a 64bit version of linux, let me dig up a link for you
Jan 08 00:24:58 <Keizer> inwoo: Thank you
Jan 08 00:25:13 * tsuramoto clueless
Jan 08 00:25:13 <inwoo> Keizer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#The_lib64_issue
Jan 08 00:25:34 <CVirus> I guess this should solve your problem
Jan 08 00:26:24 <Keizer> inwoo: Good read
Jan 08 00:28:49 <Keizer> Doesn't say how to get around it with Gentoo
Jan 08 00:29:07 <Keizer> What sucks is I try everything possible to prevent from chroot environment
Jan 08 00:29:31 <inwoo> Yeah, i gave up on building it in a 64bit env, ... just chrooted
Jan 08 00:30:22 <Keizer> Damn
Jan 08 00:30:33 <Keizer> inwoo: Is it a pain to do the 32bit chroot?
Jan 08 00:30:46 <Keizer> I know people run firefox 32bit chroot for flash plugin
Jan 08 00:31:11 <inwoo> no it's not too hard, i'm sure there's a HOWTO to get a chroot env setup for gentoo somewhere... i don't run that disto
Jan 08 00:32:34 <Keizer> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/howtos/index.xml?part=1&chap=2
Jan 08 00:32:52 <inwoo> there ya go..
Jan 08 00:38:09 <duffyd> hi, anyone know what happened to this url: http://downloads.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/all ?
Jan 08 00:38:31 <duffyd> in fact anything under http://downloads.openmoko.org/OM2007.2
Jan 08 00:40:08 <uriahheep> ello
Jan 08 00:40:13 <mmontour> duffyd: try buildhost.openmoko.org
Jan 08 00:40:32 <uriahheep> ...how many generations of the neo phone are planned so far?
Jan 08 00:41:55 <tsuramoto> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
Jan 08 00:42:04 <tsuramoto> Neo1973 DEVELOPMENT STATUS Neo1973 GTA02 is still under development. We are on the fourth revision of
Jan 08 00:42:06 <duffyd> mmontour: ok, thanks
Jan 08 00:42:22 <SpeedEvil> uriahheep: one more basically
Jan 08 00:42:47 <SpeedEvil> uriahheep: there are of course hopes for more devices, which will be developed in due course.
Jan 08 00:45:12 <duffyd> mmontour: that's working :)
Jan 08 00:45:14 <duffyd> thanks
Jan 08 00:46:27 <mgregson> Any news on how long until the a02 is released?
Jan 08 00:48:17 <uriahheep> SpeedEvil: hmm, ok :P
Jan 08 00:53:23 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: it is practically impossible that it'll happen in the next 60 days.
Jan 08 00:53:49 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: I'd say march, april, may might be possible.
Jan 08 00:58:19 <Linux_Galore> another Linux phones is released at CES http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-wistron-newebs-gw4-linux-phon
Jan 08 00:58:25 <Linux_Galore> phone*
Jan 08 00:58:46 <Linux_Galore> grr
Jan 08 00:58:50 <Linux_Galore> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-wistron-newebs-gw4-linux-phone/
Jan 08 01:00:42 <SunX2> Hardware looks interesting
Jan 08 01:00:59 <Linux_Galore> yeah, thats what I wish the NEO looked like
Jan 08 01:01:22 <Linux_Galore> even has a camera
Jan 08 01:01:36 <Linux_Galore> http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/wistron-neweb-gw4-hands-on-ces-2008-02.jpg
Jan 08 01:01:47 <mgregson> I dunno why everyone likes these cameras on cell phones...
Jan 08 01:01:55 <mgregson> but they keyboard is kinda nice.
Jan 08 01:02:14 <mgregson> Any details on screen size?
Jan 08 01:02:53 <Linux_Galore> looks like 2.8" to me
Jan 08 01:02:58 <SunX2> They're very handy to catch certain moments... but as a serious camera they're pretty useless.
Jan 08 01:03:32 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: depends on your social life, my phone is full of pictures
Jan 08 01:04:34 <SunX2> Crappy ones, no doubt :D
Jan 08 01:05:43 <Linux_Galore> hmm Wistron will be releasing a 3G version last 1/4 2008
Jan 08 01:05:48 <mgregson> So this thing has the same size screen, but adds a keyboard...
Jan 08 01:05:56 <duffyd> hi, anyone know what the SMS app in OM is called?
Jan 08 01:06:05 <tsuramoto> bluetooth virtual laser keyboard ftw
Jan 08 01:06:13 <SpeedEvil> Sucky
Jan 08 01:06:17 <SpeedEvil> no feel,.
Jan 08 01:06:35 <mgregson> but a moko with a bluetooth keyboard would do the trick
Jan 08 01:06:40 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Jan 08 01:07:04 <mgregson> not sure how i feel about pulling out a keyboard to send an sms though
Jan 08 01:07:15 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: is that the negativity of resentment I hear
Jan 08 01:07:43 <mgregson> SunX2: Yeah, cell phone cameras will need to improve a LOT before they become a 'feature'...
Jan 08 01:08:00 <SpeedEvil> IMO, utterly not mgregson.
Jan 08 01:08:13 <SpeedEvil> Cameras are not only for taking pictures to print out.
Jan 08 01:08:14 <tsuramoto> what is besides resolution and FPS with cameras?
Jan 08 01:08:14 <SunX2> Linux_Galore: it's not about your social life, it's about the awful image quality.
Jan 08 01:08:19 <Linux_Galore> mgregson: Samsun G800 has 3 x "optical" zoom and 5MP camera now
Jan 08 01:08:40 <SpeedEvil> A 640*480 camera is quite adequate for _many_ tasks.
Jan 08 01:08:44 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: the images on my N95 are very clear
Jan 08 01:09:05 <SunX2> SpeedEvil: sure. But not with the colors and distortion present on most cellphone camera.
Jan 08 01:09:07 <SunX2> s
Jan 08 01:09:30 <SpeedEvil> SunX2: for taking pictures of buisness cards, or price labels, or ... it's quite fine.
Jan 08 01:09:46 <SunX2> Linux_Galore: under the right circumstances, I'm sure. But they look awful compared to average compact cameras still.
Jan 08 01:09:50 <SpeedEvil> SunX2: I also note that 2MP cameras are available in 5mm*5mm*3mm packages
Jan 08 01:09:52 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: depends on the phone Nokia have very god camera but HTC cameras seriously suck
Jan 08 01:09:59 <Linux_Galore> good*
Jan 08 01:10:13 <SpeedEvil> There is no alternative for large glass size when it comes to performance in the dark though.
Jan 08 01:10:14 <SunX2> SpeedEvil: sure, but that's a very limited application and not quite suited for the "social" trends.
Jan 08 01:10:25 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: I have a compact Sony camera, exactly the same
Jan 08 01:10:29 <SunX2> OCR is going to be off a lot on 640x480 though.
Jan 08 01:10:54 <SunX2> Was it built before the year 2000? :D
Jan 08 01:11:17 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: no it s 7.1MP camera with 4 x zoom
Jan 08 01:11:18 <SpeedEvil> I actually have recently been looking for 100*100 camera chips or so.
Jan 08 01:11:32 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: be less than a year old
Jan 08 01:11:57 <SunX2> Linux_Galore: forgive me for not believing that :D
Jan 08 01:11:58 <duffyd> hi, anyone know what the SMS app in OM is called? (2nd posting plz :)
Jan 08 01:11:59 <SpeedEvil> (to make a 360*360 low-res  pano-cam for situational awareness on a UAV.)
Jan 08 01:12:12 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: messages
Jan 08 01:12:20 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: thanks!
Jan 08 01:12:54 <SunX2> SpeedEvil: well.. yeah... I'm sure low-res cams have their applications, but not cellphones, IMO.
Jan 08 01:12:55 <SunX2> I don't care for much more than say, 1.3MP... but the opticals are much more important.
Jan 08 01:12:56 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: as I said, Nokia do allot of R&D on their cameras before they fit them into any of their products, the difference between manufacturers on cameras in phones is huge
Jan 08 01:13:18 <SpeedEvil> SunX2: actually - if cheap - they'd be great for gesture recognition.
Jan 08 01:13:40 <SpeedEvil> A noise-free camera is 'easy' to make.
Jan 08 01:13:44 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: Collected errors:
Jan 08 01:13:45 <duffyd> Cannot find package messages.
Jan 08 01:13:45 <duffyd> Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update'
Jan 08 01:14:07 <SpeedEvil> you simply need to spec a high enough grade imager of a large enough size, and fit a fast enough lens.
Jan 08 01:14:28 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: it's built in
Jan 08 01:14:45 <Linux_Galore> SunX2: I have had the opertunity to compare the 2MP camera in a Nokia E90 to that of a HTC Tytn II (touch) and its chalk and cheese, HTC seem to have done bugger all R&D on their camera
Jan 08 01:15:01 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: oh really. I just did an ipkg update && ipkg upgrade, so should sms now work (mostly)?
Jan 08 01:15:03 <SpeedEvil> It's not a case of R&D - it's a case of budget.
Jan 08 01:15:14 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: I don't know if it actually works.
Jan 08 01:15:26 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: ok, thanks
Jan 08 01:15:29 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: both products are about the same price RRP
Jan 08 01:15:59 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: price does not reflect on the amount they paid for the camera, or the volume of the case they paid for it.
Jan 08 01:16:06 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: the E90 has a bigger screen so you would think the camera would be crapier, nope
Jan 08 01:16:34 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: end-user price that is
Jan 08 01:17:09 <SunX2> Linux_Galore: well, I've seen N93 pictures and they're awful compared to my Ixus.
Jan 08 01:17:09 <SunX2> The N95 is probably better, but I'd still trust my Ixus more than the N95.
Jan 08 01:17:16 <Linux_Galore> also the e90 has two screen and two keyboards
Jan 08 01:18:30 <Linux_Galore> HTC Tytn II has one of each
Jan 08 01:18:33 <SpeedEvil> It'd be so nice if it was mandated that they must publish standardised test photos first.
Jan 08 01:19:43 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: yeah, use a text sheet (like a TV test image)
Jan 08 01:19:51 <Linux_Galore> test*
Jan 08 01:20:08 <cb23> phone cameras all tend to generally be crap
Jan 08 01:20:29 <cb23> (generally == in my experience)
Jan 08 01:20:33 <Linux_Galore> cb23: true, but Samsun and Nokia seem to do a reasonably good job
Jan 08 01:20:36 <SunX2> That's what I was saying :D
Jan 08 01:20:43 <Linux_Galore> Samsung*
Jan 08 01:21:05 <cb23> i normally find the bigger the phone, the better the camera, when staying with the same brand
Jan 08 01:21:26 <cb23> its still irritating when people just use MP as a measure of quality :/
Jan 08 01:21:43 <SpeedEvil> Generally the design problem on the camera gets _much_ easier as you increase the sensor size.
Jan 08 01:21:58 <Linux_Galore> I dont like the compact cameras either, the best digital camera I have right now is a full sized 5MP digital camera unit with a large lense, the pictures are super clear
Jan 08 01:22:00 <SpeedEvil> And a larger sensor size means that you can increase the lens size.
Jan 08 01:22:20 <SpeedEvil> and a larger phone can incorporate larger lenses
Jan 08 01:22:38 <cb23> friend - ZOMGLOLROFLCOPTER! my new phone is 120MP. me - so what? my 7mp camera with this thing called a lens cuts it into pieces
Jan 08 01:22:41 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: the Samsun G800 is very big
Jan 08 01:22:45 <Linux_Galore> Samsung*
Jan 08 01:22:49 <cb23> SpeedEvil, indeed
Jan 08 01:22:54 <cb23> Linux_Galore, bad g key :)?
Jan 08 01:23:08 <Linux_Galore> no I keep missing it, new keyboard
Jan 08 01:23:39 <SpeedEvil> cbrake_away: I saw a datasheet on a 81MP imager the other day. 
Jan 08 01:23:42 <SpeedEvil> cb23:
Jan 08 01:23:52 <cb23> SpeedEvil, you still do that!
Jan 08 01:23:56 <SpeedEvil> cb23: made from one entire 5" imager
Jan 08 01:24:00 <SpeedEvil> cb23: made from one entire 5" wafer
Jan 08 01:24:09 <cb23> i havent been in this channel for 2 months or so, and you still prematurly tab :p
Jan 08 01:24:30 <SpeedEvil> the problem is that I don't tab, I do cb:
Jan 08 01:24:39 <Linux_Galore> cb23: yeah, cant beat a decent sized camera with a decent lense with a 12MP compact camera (Kodak have one Im not kidding)
Jan 08 01:24:58 * SpeedEvil is currently trying to find a camera for his UAV.
Jan 08 01:25:01 <SpeedEvil> It's problematic.
Jan 08 01:25:12 <cb23> SpeedEvil, no fair, why do you get a UAV?
Jan 08 01:25:42 <cb23> Linux_Galore, indeed, especially in crappy light
Jan 08 01:25:48 <SpeedEvil> cb23: because I order the bits off the internet for $450 or so total, and write the kalman filter and thrust vector code myself.
Jan 08 01:26:09 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: talk to some security camera geeks, they know the best lense etc combo's
Jan 08 01:26:12 <SpeedEvil> cb23: http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.pgm
Jan 08 01:26:17 <cb23> phone cameras in normal light are bad enough, in a semi-dark room everything sucks to hell
Jan 08 01:26:29 <cb23> SpeedEvil, wow O-o
Jan 08 01:26:33 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: I'm in a different space - I care about weight - my all-up weight is 1Kg
Jan 08 01:26:37 <cb23> btw, bad link
Jan 08 01:26:49 <SpeedEvil> cb23: http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png ?
Jan 08 01:27:10 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: security people have space constraints too, try fitting a camera in a lift that cant be seen
Jan 08 01:27:39 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: however, I want 5MP+, in under 150g
Jan 08 01:27:40 <duffyd> I've got python on my OM! 
Jan 08 01:27:43 * duffyd very happy :)
Jan 08 01:27:50 <duffyd> go ahead call me a n00b :)
Jan 08 01:27:53 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: which is probably not a common requirement for security.
Jan 08 01:28:01 <cb23> duffyd, ok, now run python and type import antigravity ;)
Jan 08 01:28:12 <duffyd> cb23: :)
Jan 08 01:28:23 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: buy a broken N95 on ebay heh
Jan 08 01:28:41 <cb23> or from __future__ import braces
Jan 08 01:28:56 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: I've already got an ARM processor in there ( tincantools.com ) and may do USB ptp camera.
Jan 08 01:28:59 <duffyd> cb23: I just wanna run a db app :)
Jan 08 01:28:59 <cb23> Linux_Galore, could you actually reuse a camera from a phone without a significant amount of work?
Jan 08 01:29:01 <duffyd> gotta find one now
Jan 08 01:29:07 <SpeedEvil> cb23: no
Jan 08 01:29:52 <Linux_Galore> cb23: yes, most manufacturers actualy use a pretty stock USB insterface module
Jan 08 01:30:33 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: no they don't
Jan 08 01:30:43 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: they use sccb or similar parallel camera busses.
Jan 08 01:30:57 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: usb2 in phone type SOC's are _rare_.
Jan 08 01:31:07 <SpeedEvil> and there are no USB2 integrated imagers.
Jan 08 01:31:08 <duffyd> anyways, I'm off. Thanks all
Jan 08 01:31:16 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: well the ones Ive looked at just use a standard 4 wire serial setup as the interface
Jan 08 01:31:32 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: that's for the control - not the data
Jan 08 01:31:44 <cb23> how does the data flow?
Jan 08 01:32:07 <cb23> like my ipaqs camera didnt really have many wires linking it up
Jan 08 01:32:08 <SpeedEvil> cb23: it's basically an 8 bit parallel bus, with some frame/clock/line sync signals
Jan 08 01:32:20 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: Im not talking getting the data direct from the camera module but after the interface
Jan 08 01:32:23 <SpeedEvil> then a seperate 2 -4 wire serial bus to set the registers.
Jan 08 01:32:53 <cb23> so you cant just wire the damn thing up to a parallel port? boo
Jan 08 01:32:59 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: the interface is typically connected directly to a dedicated port on an image processing or direct to the CPU.
Jan 08 01:33:24 <SpeedEvil> cb23: it's typically 20-90Mhz readout, so no.
Jan 08 01:33:43 <cb23> hmm, i actually remember seeing a serial camera once
Jan 08 01:33:50 * SpeedEvil has been reading _way_ too many microcontroller and camera datasheets recently.
Jan 08 01:33:51 <cb23> (serial port)
Jan 08 01:33:57 <cb23> SpeedEvil, yes, yes you have
Jan 08 01:34:05 <cb23> but its educational for me, so i dont mind :)
Jan 08 01:34:20 <SpeedEvil> (trying to pick the remaining stuff for the UAV)
Jan 08 01:34:48 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: sp now they have removed the serial interface and feed it direct into the video processor ?
Jan 08 01:35:46 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: no - the serial interface never had the video. It's been pretty much 'standard' - from when CMOS imagers were 120*160 - to have one serial bus for control, and one parallel bus that the data comes out on.
Jan 08 01:36:14 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: of course, video format output cameras are different - they only have power and composite out. Maybe sync too
Jan 08 01:36:53 <SpeedEvil> Of course, the chips have enough incompatabilities that it's hard to simply swap.
Jan 08 01:37:46 <SpeedEvil> And there are exceptions like single-chip USB cameras - but these are typically bottom feeders in terms of quality.
Jan 08 01:40:32 <Linux_Galore> this year should be the year of "Linux on hand helds"
Jan 08 01:40:36 <Linux_Galore> fsk the desktop
Jan 08 01:43:12 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: you can get decent 8MP PC video camera now I noticed
Jan 08 01:43:36 <Linux_Galore> not too expensive either
Jan 08 01:43:36 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: no you can't.
Jan 08 01:43:49 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: the maximum native resolution is 2MP
Jan 08 01:44:01 <SpeedEvil> at least for common video cameras.
Jan 08 01:44:22 <SpeedEvil> the logitech Optia AF is about the leader of the pack. 2MP 10Hz under linux.
Jan 08 01:44:36 <SpeedEvil> If you look carefully you may find '8MP still image capture'
Jan 08 01:44:44 <SpeedEvil> which is basically just the driver blowing the image up
Jan 08 01:45:15 <ewon> oh for a cheap 300fps usb camera
Jan 08 01:45:38 <Linux_Galore> s/video//
Jan 08 01:46:19 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: they don't really take 8MP stills - it's simply blowing up a 1.3MP image to 8MP forex
Jan 08 01:47:29 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: if you think about it any video above 720p is a wast of time anyway
Jan 08 01:47:40 <SpeedEvil> No it's not.
Jan 08 01:48:02 <SpeedEvil> You can do image processing on it usefully
Jan 08 01:48:12 <Linux_Galore> unless your a spy satellite heh 
Jan 08 01:48:40 <peepsalot> http://gizmodo.com/341634/casios-exilim-pro-ex+f1-hands+on-1200-fps-demo-video-and-sample-60+shots+per+second-gallery
Jan 08 01:48:43 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: Im talking on the consumer side
Jan 08 01:50:01 <Linux_Galore> Im not talking about making the next Star Wars block buster
Jan 08 01:50:27 <SpeedEvil> I somewhat disagree - if you've got a good enough video camera, which can take 10MP video, forex, you can later go back and do digital zoom on sections of the image.
Jan 08 01:50:46 <SpeedEvil> In principle.
Jan 08 01:51:40 <cb23> isnt principle a nice thing :)
Jan 08 01:51:58 <cb23> too bad its arch enemy practice comes around so often and ruins the day
Jan 08 01:52:02 <SpeedEvil> True.
Jan 08 01:52:35 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: yeah, reminds me of blade runner and the zooming
Jan 08 01:52:38 <SpeedEvil> In principle, 100MP video for 'snap' cams would be nice. 
Jan 08 01:53:26 <SpeedEvil> It simply notes when you pressed the button and takes a nominal picture, which is really a bookmark.
Jan 08 01:53:29 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: Military already have satellites with 150mp+ cameras
Jan 08 01:53:57 <Linux_Galore> cost over $200k each
Jan 08 01:53:59 <SpeedEvil> you can reframe by digital zooming, or seek backwards or forwards a bit.
Jan 08 01:54:26 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: oh yeah - it's going to be some while.
Jan 08 01:55:07 <Linux_Galore> you can purchase 32MP cameras now ($30k)
Jan 08 01:55:29 <peepsalot> you guys see that link I posted, that cam can do up to 1200FPS
Jan 08 01:55:50 <Linux_Galore> peepsalot: yeah, but it degrades the resolution to do it
Jan 08 01:55:54 <peepsalot> yeah
Jan 08 01:56:10 <Linux_Galore> peepsalot: camera needs more grunt
Jan 08 01:56:21 <Linux_Galore> or a faster IO
Jan 08 01:56:27 <peepsalot> it' still pretty impressive
Jan 08 01:56:43 <peepsalot> fastest one so far(in consumer space) that I know of
Jan 08 01:56:53 <Linux_Galore> peepsalot: yeah, I can see cameras and video merging more and more
Jan 08 01:57:05 <Linux_Galore> still cameras*
Jan 08 01:57:43 <peepsalot> yeah, that thing is built like a still cam, but can record HD vid
Jan 08 01:57:44 <Linux_Galore> peepsalot: Canon's more expensive HD camera also can do still shots
Jan 08 01:59:52 <Linux_Galore> sounds like a fun year, HTC have a Linux mobile phone on the drawing boards, few no name brands showing phones at CES, and OM release one (maybe two) models this year
Jan 08 02:00:17 <Linux_Galore> then we have Android from Mr Money (Google) Bags
Jan 08 02:00:35 * SpeedEvil intones 'Who are not evil', and rings a bell.
Jan 08 02:01:09 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: all companies are evil or they will get sued
Jan 08 02:01:21 <SpeedEvil> publically held
Jan 08 02:01:30 <SpeedEvil> privately held ones can be nice in principle.
Jan 08 02:01:34 * mwester 's head explodes trying to fathom that logic
Jan 08 02:01:45 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: its funny, companies have to be evil ie make as much money as possible for share holder or they can get sued
Jan 08 02:01:59 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: some companies have no shareholders.
Jan 08 02:02:19 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: and have no share holders
Jan 08 02:02:39 <Linux_Galore> as soon as you have share holders the rules change allot
Jan 08 02:03:02 <Linux_Galore> your legally bound to make as much money as possible for your share holders
Jan 08 02:03:03 <mwester> Companies can be neither evil nor good; the people running them can be, and perhaps they can behave in ways that might be morally objectionable, but to say that a company is evil has about as much meaning as saying a rock is evil.
Jan 08 02:03:49 <roh> mwester: youre american, right?
Jan 08 02:03:51 <roh> *ducks*
Jan 08 02:04:40 <Linux_Galore> mwester the legal system specifies that a company has to return as much money as viable for its holders even if bending the law is part of that, and yes that has gone to court
Jan 08 02:05:52 <mwester> Linux_Galore:  The law has little to do with good or evil.  Regrettably.
Jan 08 02:06:52 <Linux_Galore> you as a director of a publically woned company cant sit there (unless its in the charter) and say, no Im not going to make lots of money for my share holders because those actions may be morally questionable, you can get sued for that 
Jan 08 02:08:18 <Linux_Galore> mwester true
Jan 08 02:08:20 <mwester> Perhaps, but that doesn't make the company evil.  It might make the share holders evil.  It might make the people who created and uphold that law evil.  But not a company.  To perpetuate the myth that companies are evil is just to permit those who are *really* responsible to hide behind the facade of a company.
Jan 08 02:09:42 <mwester> For example, we have lots of people here in Chicago who are busy saying that they are not responsible for polluting Lake Michigan -- it was the company who dumped PCB's into the harbor.  :(
Jan 08 02:09:47 <Linux_Galore> mwester what Im saying is its impossible more a publically owned company to be 100% "not evil" or morally acceptable and still be legally within the bounds of making money for its share holders 
Jan 08 02:09:58 <Linux_Galore> s/more/for/
Jan 08 02:09:58 <apt> Linux_Galore meant: mwester what Im saying is its impossible for a publically owned company to be 100% "not evil" or morally acceptable and still be legally within the bounds of making money for its share holders 
Jan 08 02:11:05 <SpeedEvil> Assuming that the shareholders care
Jan 08 02:11:21 <SpeedEvil> you can not make the shareholders as much money if they agree.
Jan 08 02:11:36 <mwester> I see what you're getting at.  I happen to disagree -- I think that it is possible, and legal, but I agree that it is impractical, and that many lawyers will sue -- but the fact that the company got sued, and perhaps a judgement against them was rendered, does not impune the company's morals.
Jan 08 02:12:10 <mwester> Rather it impunes the morality of the lawyers and shareholders who sued a company for "doing the right thing".
Jan 08 02:12:40 <Linux_Galore> SpeedEvil: well large parts of public companies are usually held by investment funds and all they care about is the returns for the members, and the members only care about the **% number they see on the bit if paper they get from the fund every 6 months they dont give a stuff about the companies principles 
Jan 08 02:12:48 <SpeedEvil> pk: indeed.
Jan 08 02:12:50 <SpeedEvil> lin:
Jan 08 02:14:38 <mwester> Anyway, interesting digression :)   (and roh:  :P )
Jan 08 02:14:49 <Linux_Galore> mwester you dont understand how the law stands at the moment in the USA for public companies, they have no choice but to maximise returns for the share holders, doing do "is illegal"
Jan 08 02:15:42 <Linux_Galore> s/do/so/
Jan 08 02:15:43 <apt> Linux_Galore meant: mwester you sont understand how the law stands at the moment in the USA for public companies, they have no choice but to maximise returns for the share holders, doing do "is illegal"
Jan 08 02:15:47 <Linux_Galore> ack
Jan 08 02:17:56 <Linux_Galore> Michael Moore did a documentary piece just on that part of corporate law, amazing if a company is good and has low returns when they can be evil and break the law to do so with igh returns the directors can nad have found themselves on the losing side of a court case
Jan 08 02:38:51 * CVirus is listening to Gargling With Infected Semen by Amputated on Gargling With Infected Semen [Amarok]
Jan 08 02:38:54 <CVirus> ROFL
Jan 08 02:42:38 <ewon> nice
Jan 08 02:45:55 <CVirus> ewon: into metal ?
Jan 08 02:47:29 <ewon> into metal?
Jan 08 02:48:54 <CVirus> you're into metal I mean ?
Jan 08 02:49:03 <ewon> no
Jan 08 02:49:08 <CVirus> ah okay
Jan 08 02:50:39 <Keizer> Do I hve to use jtagkey when trying to connect to the debug board?
Jan 08 02:51:01 <ewon> the name just amused me, that's all
Jan 08 02:56:51 <Keizer> Anyone here familiar with debug board?
Jan 08 02:57:12 <mmontour> Keizer: yes
Jan 08 02:57:48 <mmontour> The "Neo1973 Debug Board v2" page on the Wiki (and the ones it links to) should have most of the information that you will need.
Jan 08 02:58:45 <Keizer> mmontour: I need to run openocd
Jan 08 02:58:51 <Keizer> But it's not documented well enough
Jan 08 02:58:58 <Keizer> I tried the config file listed for openocd
Jan 08 02:59:00 <Keizer> And I get errors
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 08 02:59:56 2008