**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 08 02:59:56 2008
Jan 08 03:00:11 <mmontour> Make sure you're running it as root or that you've set up a udev rule to adjust the device permissions
Jan 08 03:00:48 <Keizer> Error:   jtag.c:1251 jtag_examine_chain(): JTAG communication failure, check connection, JTAG interface, target power etc.
Jan 08 03:01:28 <mmontour> That one can happen if the Neo1973 isn't powered on. You also sometimes need to unplug and re-plug the debug board's USB cable before running openocd.
Jan 08 03:02:22 <Keizer> mmontour: Do I need to power on the moko?
Jan 08 03:03:20 <Keizer> mmontour: I'm trying to debrick the moko
Jan 08 03:03:24 <mmontour> Yes, you need to power it on. If it's bricked you may not see anything on the screen when you press the power button, but it will still start the CPU
Jan 08 03:03:42 <Keizer> When will I know it's started?
Jan 08 03:05:42 <mmontour> Just hold the power button for about 5 seconds then try to connect with the debug board. Please see the "Hardware Connection" section on that wiki page I mentioned
Jan 08 03:06:15 <Keizer> Does the battery need to be in it?
Jan 08 03:06:46 <mmontour> Yes, the battery needs to be in it and needs to be at least partially charged.
Jan 08 03:06:58 <Keizer> usb 2-4: device descriptor read/64, error -62
Jan 08 03:09:02 <mmontour> Some usb errors are normal with a bricked Neo. 
Jan 08 03:09:18 <Keizer> Is it still possible to install uboot?
Jan 08 03:10:04 <Keizer> Having a tough time with this
Jan 08 03:10:19 <Keizer> usb 2-4: device not accepting address 20, error -62
Jan 08 03:13:37 <Keizer> http://pastebin.com/m391b936a
Jan 08 03:13:44 <Keizer> mmontour: There's a pastebin of the error message
Jan 08 03:17:27 <mmontour> Do you still get that if you follow the "Hardware Connection" sequence precisely, before running openocd?
Jan 08 03:18:42 <mmontour> You should also double-check the FPC cable between the Neo and the debug board to make sure it's seated properly in both of the connectors
Jan 08 03:42:31 <Keizer> Anyone know the settings to set in minicom for connecting to debug board V3?
Jan 08 03:46:07 <mmontour> I don't know about debug board V3. For V2, device = /dev/ttyUSB1 baud = 115200, no flow control (I think), and clear the modem init/hangup/reset strings
Jan 08 04:08:52 <Keizer> mmontour: Still there?
Jan 08 04:09:49 <Keizer> Error:   jtag.c:1344 jtag_validate_chain(): Error validating JTAG scan chain, IR mismatch, scan returned 0x00
Jan 08 04:11:50 <mmontour> That's the error you get if the Neo isn't powered on. Also try stopping openocd, unplugging and re-plugging the USB cable to the debug board, then re-running openocd. If those don't work I probably can't help you.
Jan 08 04:12:25 <Keizer> mmontour: I'm trying to use SEC JTAG FLASH(SJF)
Jan 08 04:12:33 <Keizer> That's the only option I have I think
Jan 08 04:12:56 <Keizer> But it gives me the error unable to find parallel port
Jan 08 04:15:02 <mmontour> I've only worked with openocd, not SJF. 
Jan 08 05:00:32 <free1> spring? as in april or like late June?
Jan 08 05:06:37 <SpeedEvil> Or as in slinky.
Jan 08 05:09:54 <free1> "If I'm wrong there is no right.  If I'm wrong there is snow white."
Jan 08 05:10:57 <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
Jan 08 05:11:20 <SpeedEvil> It's basically a guess, the absolute earliest time it might be is around 2 months.
Jan 08 05:11:36 <SpeedEvil> but it's more likely to be longer than that.
Jan 08 05:11:39 <free1> March. Yay(o)
Jan 08 05:11:48 <SpeedEvil> and if things don't go right, rather a lot longer.
Jan 08 05:12:10 <free1> It's not going to cost a couple bucks short of an iphone?
Jan 08 05:12:16 <free1> is it?
Jan 08 05:12:24 <SpeedEvil> that price was released a _long_ time ago.
Jan 08 05:12:30 <SpeedEvil> I would not be surprised to see it alter.
Jan 08 05:12:48 <SpeedEvil> (I'm not one that'd be involved in setting the price thjough)
Jan 08 05:12:51 <mgregson> any word on the 850mhz mod?
Jan 08 05:12:54 <free1> the release date was released a l o n g time ago
Jan 08 05:12:58 <free1> but that changed
Jan 08 05:13:02 <free1> dramatically
Jan 08 05:13:18 <SpeedEvil> I think the $450 was stated around august
Jan 08 05:13:35 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: GTA02 will have two variants apparently.
Jan 08 05:13:43 <SpeedEvil> +-850
Jan 08 05:13:48 <free1> what the blood clot ?!?
Jan 08 05:13:48 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: for sure?
Jan 08 05:13:57 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: it's not going to be quadband
Jan 08 05:14:11 <SpeedEvil> 03 - who knows.
Jan 08 05:14:34 <free1> How's about for developers.   what is the price?
Jan 08 05:14:36 <mgregson> quad would have been nice, but really the 850 band is what's important for me...
Jan 08 05:14:50 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: same
Jan 08 05:14:52 <free1> all that wait so I can pay I-phone price
Jan 08 05:14:53 <SpeedEvil> free1:
Jan 08 05:14:56 <free1> yo
Jan 08 05:15:00 <free1> holla at me
Jan 08 05:15:29 <mgregson> IIRC, the iPhone is locked and running shady Apple software...
Jan 08 05:15:43 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: unless you can show that you have skills that would mean you would be able to do actual development of the hardware.
Jan 08 05:15:47 <free1> the Ipone, she's not locked
Jan 08 05:15:48 <SpeedEvil> free1: rather
Jan 08 05:16:59 <free1> no apple is not shady
Jan 08 05:17:16 <free1> they have been having a steady policy of high priced-ness
Jan 08 05:17:21 <free1> for a while no
Jan 08 05:17:25 <free1> now, rather
Jan 08 05:17:27 <free1> .
Jan 08 05:17:43 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: Have you used a moko?
Jan 08 05:17:47 <free1> but for  a 'free' phone to charge the same thing
Jan 08 05:18:00 <free1> after waiting so long for it
Jan 08 05:18:04 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: yes
Jan 08 05:18:11 <free1> is straight whack move
Jan 08 05:18:14 <SpeedEvil> mgregson: it's several metrers from me
Jan 08 05:18:17 <mgregson> mgregson:  How is typing on it?
Jan 08 05:18:26 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: How is typing on it?
Jan 08 05:18:29 <free1> I think I'd rather go ahead and buy an Iphone 
Jan 08 05:18:36 <free1> 450?
Jan 08 05:18:38 <mgregson> (I seem to fail at typing on a laptop...)
Jan 08 05:18:48 <free1> pesos, maybe
Jan 08 05:18:51 <free1> or rubles
Jan 08 05:18:55 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: if you don't understand why you should get the neo, you want an iphone.
Jan 08 05:19:33 <free1> Speedy: I am down with the free software, gpl, stallman, all that
Jan 08 05:19:54 <free1> but if in the end, you pull some 
Jan 08 05:20:00 <free1> nonsense
Jan 08 05:20:09 <free1> in 2008, I'm staying sucker free
Jan 08 05:20:11 <free1> holla
Jan 08 05:20:15 <SpeedEvil> define nonsense?
Jan 08 05:20:40 <mgregson> free1: Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to produce no-cost hardware...
Jan 08 05:20:55 <free1> nonsense-- piggybacking on the linux philosophy/movement for profit
Jan 08 05:21:03 <summatusmentis> is there a keyboard? or is it still the 1-9 dailing typing?
Jan 08 05:21:09 <free1> are you kidding me?!?
Jan 08 05:21:15 <free1> mgregson?
Jan 08 05:21:29 <free1> ole boy, I forgot his name...
Jan 08 05:21:56 <ahven> free software is one thing, but free hardware is another thing
Jan 08 05:21:57 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: each hardware revision probably costs $15K at least.
Jan 08 05:22:01 <SpeedEvil> free1:
Jan 08 05:22:13 <free1> one of the co-founders, was hanging out in the HK
Jan 08 05:22:19 <free1> you know Hong Kong
Jan 08 05:22:28 <SpeedEvil> free1: and there is significantly more than that involved in the project.
Jan 08 05:22:33 <free1> all he had to do was cross-over to the mainland
Jan 08 05:22:42 <free1> and get things mad cheap
Jan 08 05:22:44 <free1> ask nike?
Jan 08 05:22:48 <SpeedEvil> Err - no.
Jan 08 05:22:54 <free1> and I'm not referring to the lil wayne remix
Jan 08 05:22:55 <SpeedEvil> FIC has factories in china.
Jan 08 05:23:00 <SpeedEvil> It's not that simple.
Jan 08 05:23:23 <SpeedEvil> $15K is design + one-time costs in getting 10 or so custom phones made.
Jan 08 05:23:28 <free1> but the funny thing is.... it is that simple
Jan 08 05:23:55 <SpeedEvil> free1: have you ever designed complex multi-layer PCBs for surface mount electronics?
Jan 08 05:24:30 <free1> speedevil: have you taken notice of --the 20th century-- and businesses which bnefit from economies of scale
Jan 08 05:24:32 <SpeedEvil> free1: because I have - and it is in fact not simple. Stuff gets cheap only at runs of several thousand, or in really simple assemblies.
Jan 08 05:24:39 <free1> like the telecom industry??
Jan 08 05:24:53 <SpeedEvil> free1: this is initial test runs. 1s and 10s.
Jan 08 05:25:24 <SpeedEvil> free1: and you need maybe 5-6 revisions before you get to a stage you can commit to a thousand.
Jan 08 05:25:25 <free1> there is no way I'm paying more than $105.
Jan 08 05:25:37 <free1> for the final product.
Jan 08 05:25:41 <SpeedEvil> As if you screw up on that thousand, you need to eat the cost.
Jan 08 05:25:42 <Stephmw> then you're far too early to the party
Jan 08 05:25:49 <mgregson> free1: You can get an iPhone for $105?
Jan 08 05:25:51 <free1> step up your business model game, yo
Jan 08 05:25:56 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: come back 2010.
Jan 08 05:25:59 <SpeedEvil> free1:
Jan 08 05:26:01 * Stephmw doesn't really like the smell of troll in the morning
Jan 08 05:26:16 <free1> no, Iphones are run buy apple which are known to charge ridiculous amounts
Jan 08 05:26:22 <SpeedEvil> free1: $105 is not achievable without subsidy. Networks will not be subsidising this phone.
Jan 08 05:27:07 <SpeedEvil> free1: $100 is probably a little less than the total cost of the parts in the phone - it can't sell for that.
Jan 08 05:27:09 <mgregson> free1: This is an Apple thing?  I don't think I've ever seen a smartphone at that kind of price...
Jan 08 05:27:09 <free1> 2007- the year of lil wayne, 2008- sucker free, 2010- openmoko a footnote in linux history
Jan 08 05:27:22 * SpeedEvil ignores free1
Jan 08 05:27:37 <free1> than go to china and get some cheaper parts, yo
Jan 08 05:27:44 <mgregson> free1: Uh, they did.
Jan 08 05:27:45 <free1> you can't ignore the truth
Jan 08 05:27:53 * Stephmw ignores free1 
Jan 08 05:27:55 <free1> you don't the future can cross a bridge
Jan 08 05:28:03 <free1> the mainland is right there
Jan 08 05:28:17 <free1> a mr. ignore, what have you done? 
Jan 08 05:28:22 <free1> nothing.
Jan 08 05:29:21 <free1> here's a little reality.  If you think, you are going to charge the same amount as an Iphone, and think this is a viable long-term strategy... you cats will be non-existent
Jan 08 05:29:46 <free1> so ignoring people who are not checking for you... best of luck with that
Jan 08 05:31:35 * daMaestro really wants to think "don't feed the trolls" but is having a hard time not telling free1 to find something better to do
Jan 08 05:32:44 <free1> paisano, una cazata!
Jan 08 05:33:03 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: How is typing on the neo (sending sms)?
Jan 08 05:33:24 <daMaestro> you have a qwerty keyboard on screen mgregson 
Jan 08 05:33:38 <SpeedEvil> Ok - with the stylus.
Jan 08 05:33:48 <SpeedEvil> it needs other input methods though
Jan 08 05:33:50 <mgregson> daMaestro: Seen the pictures, interested in ease of use.  Looked kinda small.
Jan 08 05:33:55 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: Ah...
Jan 08 05:34:10 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: So not really practical for sms
Jan 08 05:34:23 <SpeedEvil> for SMS with stylus - yes.
Jan 08 05:34:43 <mgregson> SpeedEvil: But, unlike other stylus-dependent devices, it doesn't have a slot to store the stylus...
Jan 08 05:34:48 <SpeedEvil> indeed
Jan 08 05:36:13 <free1> indeed
Jan 08 05:36:16 <free1> hahaha
Jan 08 05:36:55 <Stephmw> good riddance to bad rubbish
Jan 08 05:37:04 <mgregson> lol
Jan 08 05:40:51 * mwester finds himself reminded how it is possible for one to speak what appears to be English but still be almost totally unable to communicate
Jan 08 05:47:32 <Linux_Galore_> ah free1 another US creation of "cheaper is better" philosophy, yep just look at the US economy as we speak, cheap loans did allot of good huh
Jan 08 05:48:15 <free1> Linux_Galore:  congrats! the most facile analogy of the year
Jan 08 05:48:44 <Linux_Galore> free1: Im in marketing, do you know the expression, "race to the bottom"
Jan 08 05:49:29 <free1> Linux_G:  I'm in the real world, do you know the phrase "never heard of 'em"
Jan 08 05:49:31 <free1> ?
Jan 08 05:49:59 <free1> steve jobs, and the rest of the planet, not checking for you openmoko boys
Jan 08 05:50:02 <free1> truth
Jan 08 05:50:11 <Linux_Galore> free1: you just expressed "race to the bottom" without actually understanding what it actually means
Jan 08 05:50:31 <free1> how very Platonic of me, indeed.
Jan 08 05:50:48 <Linux_Galore> free1: ah a boincing icons and "Hey I will bend over and take it in the arse for some pretty consumer crap" teenager
Jan 08 05:51:01 <free1> you know I went to the open-source convention in Oregon in July of 2007
Jan 08 05:51:26 <Linux_Galore> free1:  heh, just because you went to a wedding doesnt mean your married
Jan 08 05:51:28 <free1> L_Galore:  taking it up the arse/ass
Jan 08 05:51:36 <free1> would be to pay 450 for a free phone
Jan 08 05:52:02 <free1> LInux _Galore: a bird in the hand...
Jan 08 05:52:04 <free1> etc etc
Jan 08 05:52:11 <Linux_Galore> free1:  the Om isnt about "price" it asks the question, how much would you pay to be truly free
Jan 08 05:52:43 <free1> you cannot pay someone else to make yourself free
Jan 08 05:52:49 <Linux_Galore> free1: so, do you want to be just another consumer slave or yourself and free
Jan 08 05:52:52 <mjr> ah, it's idiot season
Jan 08 05:53:21 <free1> I am not free at 450 a phone
Jan 08 05:53:21 <moko-bunny> would you like to shoot him now, or wait till you get home? :)
Jan 08 05:53:24 <free1> I can tell you that
Jan 08 05:53:48 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: most phones of similar hardware feature set are around the same price without subsidy.
Jan 08 05:53:50 <Linux_Galore> free1: your mixing terms to escape the question
Jan 08 05:53:51 <SpeedEvil> free1;
Jan 08 05:53:52 <free1> bunny: were you at the open-source convention in Oregon?
Jan 08 05:53:53 <mjr> moko-bunny, I am at home. Teh win.
Jan 08 05:53:56 <free1> were any of you?
Jan 08 05:54:12 <free1> the open-moko people didn't even show!
Jan 08 05:54:21 <moko-bunny> I went to Siggraph...that's enough convention for one year for me :)
Jan 08 05:54:24 <free1> some Linux-Tv host
Jan 08 05:54:31 <free1> showed up to return
Jan 08 05:54:34 <Linux_Galore> free1: in your whole rant you avoided the single thing the OM really stands for, are you ready to be free and how much will you pay
Jan 08 05:54:37 <free1> his non-working moko phone
Jan 08 05:54:51 <free1> you can't sell freedom
Jan 08 05:55:08 <free1> I think that Ohm you pushing, is a fugazi
Jan 08 05:55:38 <free1> anyways, so we're all waiting for close to an hour for the presenter to show up
Jan 08 05:55:43 <Linux_Galore> free1: freedom is never free, only fools and the naive think like that, just ask those who gave their lives by fighting tyranny if their lives are truly worth freedom
Jan 08 05:55:43 <free1> he doesn't
Jan 08 05:56:14 <moko-bunny> freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
Jan 08 05:56:19 <free1> Linux_Galore: I'm willing to bet you haven't even been in the same city as anyone who fought tyranny
Jan 08 05:56:45 <moko-bunny> I fought the law and the law won.
Jan 08 05:56:46 <free1> then this cable-access tv show host shows up. good dude
Jan 08 05:56:55 <free1> but a major disappointment.
Jan 08 05:57:10 <free1> I was clear, these open moko boys ain't serious.
Jan 08 05:57:15 <free1> all these delays
Jan 08 05:57:23 <Linux_Galore> free1: when you childishly complain about $450 for freedom, though small "F" are you also saying people should have not  given their lives for your right to be free because yours is worth less than thiers
Jan 08 05:57:29 <free1> and now this outrageous price
Jan 08 05:57:48 <Linux_Galore> s/have not/have/
Jan 08 05:57:48 <apt> Linux_Galore meant: free1: when you childishly complain about $450 for freedom, though small "F" are you also saying people should have  given their lives for your right to be free because yours is worth less than thiers
Jan 08 05:58:19 <Linux_Galore> is was correct the other way heh
Jan 08 05:58:24 <free1> Linux_Galore:  son, you have no idea about lives, freedom, and tyranny.  you haven't been remotely involved- nor has your family- in any revolution
Jan 08 05:58:31 <SpeedEvil> freelock_: most phones of similar hardware feature set are around the same price without subsidy.
Jan 08 05:58:41 <SpeedEvil> free1: most phones of similar hardware feature set are around the same price without subsidy.
Jan 08 05:58:46 <Linux_Galore> free1: ha, try again
Jan 08 05:59:13 <free1> ha, no I won't
Jan 08 05:59:23 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: the new moto rokr e6(iirc, the slider) is $500 w/out subsidy
Jan 08 05:59:23 <Linux_Galore> free1: you have just admitted you are happy to sell your freedom for a few gold coins
Jan 08 05:59:38 <free1> $500.
Jan 08 05:59:42 <free1> ?!?!
Jan 08 05:59:53 <summatusmentis> yes
Jan 08 06:00:26 <summatusmentis> let me double check that, but I'm pretty sure
Jan 08 06:00:26 <SpeedEvil> The US has a _very_ distorted phone market. Phones are _not_ as cheap as their 'sticker' price.
Jan 08 06:00:27 <free1> oh ok. w/o coverage plan subsidy
Jan 08 06:00:37 <Linux_Galore> free1: the reason phones are cheaper are because they are locking in or should I say "taking away your freedom" to define how you use the hardware you havent actually paid for yet
Jan 08 06:01:33 <free1> Linux_Galore: stick to the sophistries, cuz a revolutionary you are not, nor ever will be.
Jan 08 06:01:40 <summatusmentis> free1: oh, sorry, I was confused
Jan 08 06:01:50 <summatusmentis> the rokr is $360 w/out subsidy
Jan 08 06:01:59 <mgregson> free1: Were you under the impression that moko would come with a coverage plan subsidy?
Jan 08 06:02:02 <Linux_Galore> free1: hah, and a fool to reality you shall always be
Jan 08 06:02:03 <free1> makes more sense
Jan 08 06:02:23 <free1> cuz in Europe, the highest you will see them go is 250 euro
Jan 08 06:02:51 <free1> Linuz_Galore:  congrats on that revolutionary zinger, son.
Jan 08 06:03:06 <Linux_Galore> free1: the price you mention isnt to buy the phone, your not buying the phoen you putting a "down payment on it", the network fees over the period of the contract are the full price of the phone
Jan 08 06:03:09 <free1> 250 w/o subsidy
Jan 08 06:03:40 <summatusmentis> maybe for the rokr, dollar sucks against the euro
Jan 08 06:03:44 <summatusmentis> but not for a smartphone
Jan 08 06:03:55 <free1> right, that's true
Jan 08 06:04:10 <Linux_Galore> free1: $250 for a phone you cant do anything with other than what it can do, ie you cant expand it doesnt compare
Jan 08 06:04:31 <free1> yes it does compare, 
Jan 08 06:04:39 <free1> I'm not looking to install Java
Jan 08 06:04:48 <free1> I'm not looking to uninstall Java
Jan 08 06:04:59 <Linux_Galore> free1: java would be one of many things you can install on the OM
Jan 08 06:05:12 <free1> I know...
Jan 08 06:05:36 <free1> but what I want is to control my phone, via open-source
Jan 08 06:05:50 <Linux_Galore> free1: also the hardware specifications (90%) are open so you can change anything as you wish
Jan 08 06:05:57 * moko-bunny plans to install COBOL
Jan 08 06:06:02 <free1> to do things that don't have to be uber super-user esque
Jan 08 06:06:10 <summatusmentis> which you can, with a phone that is on par with most other smartphones
Jan 08 06:06:33 <Linux_Galore> free1: to do what "you truly want" with your mobile isnt cheap, thats the problem
Jan 08 06:06:44 <free1> right, a lot of the phones in Europe, or the ones coming out of Korea or Japan are phones
Jan 08 06:06:54 <free1> with smartphone capabilities and more
Jan 08 06:07:07 <Linux_Galore> free1: yes but they are locked in on the hardware
Jan 08 06:07:30 <free1> what I want, what a lot of people want, is to do what they need to do day to day
Jan 08 06:07:37 <free1> big buck with no whammies
Jan 08 06:07:40 <free1> ya dig
Jan 08 06:07:54 <free1> without the b.s of the evil empire- microsoft
Jan 08 06:08:07 <Linux_Galore> free1: go change your so called smart phone so it runs lets say QTopia's software stack, ooh sorry you cant do that its locked down
Jan 08 06:08:09 <free1> that's why a lot  of people switched to linux/sopen source
Jan 08 06:08:31 <free1> not to pay 450
Jan 08 06:08:45 <Linux_Galore> free1: as I said, freedom isnt cheap
Jan 08 06:08:47 <free1> I paid 350 for a brand new toshiba satellite this past july
Jan 08 06:08:57 <free1> and put linux on it
Jan 08 06:09:00 <Linux_Galore> free1: you keep mentioning none free phones
Jan 08 06:09:16 <free1> there's on way I'm paying more for a mobile phone
Jan 08 06:09:27 <mgregson> free1: Seriously...  please find me a smartphone I can buy unlocked w/o subsidy or plan for <$400
Jan 08 06:09:37 <mgregson> (new)
Jan 08 06:09:47 <free1> (new)
Jan 08 06:09:48 <free1> I like that
Jan 08 06:10:06 <Linux_Galore> free1: ok go to Toshiba and get them to give you the hardware specs lets say for the GSM chip,  they will go and say "sorry cant do that we have a NDA with the chipset maker and we paid big $$$$ for that"
Jan 08 06:10:16 <free1> like I said, there are phones in europe for 250 with smartphone features
Jan 08 06:10:36 <mgregson> free1: 250 euros?
Jan 08 06:10:43 <free1> gsm chip on a laptop?!?
Jan 08 06:10:47 <free1> euros
Jan 08 06:11:09 <Linux_Galore> free1:  and as I keep telling you those 250 euro phones are all locked down
Jan 08 06:11:15 <free1> don't blame be for the W's policies which devalued the dollar
Jan 08 06:11:30 <free1> in 2003 the $ was still ahead of the euro
Jan 08 06:11:33 <mgregson> free1: Didn't affect me.  I'm not in the US.
Jan 08 06:11:33 <Linux_Galore> free1: the reason they are cheap is because they are locked down, thats the scam and your not even seeing it
Jan 08 06:12:16 <free1> Linux_Galore: locked down via propriatery software, right?
Jan 08 06:12:40 <mgregson> free1: Raise the bar.  I want wifi, bluetooth, and gps.  Still 250 euros?
Jan 08 06:12:45 <Linux_Galore> free1:  no hardware and software
Jan 08 06:12:52 <free1> yes
Jan 08 06:13:00 <mgregson> free1: Send me the link?
Jan 08 06:13:10 <free1> ok...
Jan 08 06:13:48 <Linux_Galore> free1:  do you thing locking is just a software thing ie @ Microsoft, sorry but the hardware market is just as cut throat, companies like Toshiba and Sony sign agreements with chip makers "locking agreements" to get cheaper prices
Jan 08 06:13:53 <free1> how's this one  http://www.mobiletracker.net/archives/2005/05/02/voip-wifi-cell-phone
Jan 08 06:14:22 <Linux_Galore> free1: wifi is an open standard 
Jan 08 06:14:41 <Linux_Galore> free1: gsm and cdma are all licences locked in technologies
Jan 08 06:14:52 <free1> Linux_Galore: yes, wifi is an open standard
Jan 08 06:14:57 <mgregson> free1: I don't understand.  That isn't a cell phone, it's an add for a wifi handset.
Jan 08 06:15:31 <mgregson> free1: Sorry, it is a cell phone, and has wifi.
Jan 08 06:15:38 <free1> exactly
Jan 08 06:15:42 <free1> voila
Jan 08 06:16:00 <mgregson> free1: No mention of unit price, no GPS, and what suggests it supports bluetooth?
Jan 08 06:16:07 <Linux_Galore> free1: there are lots of Linux wifi/VoIP phones around, not hard to do the hardware is very open in many cases, not so easy with mobiles because of all the agreements and patents and cross licensing that forces makers to lock down the hardware
Jan 08 06:18:25 <mgregson> free1: That page didn't actually answer the question I asked you.
Jan 08 06:20:01 <free1> so you want a link from a store I saw which was selling a phone for 250 with smart-phone capabilities? or wifi-enabled? kindly remind me
Jan 08 06:20:25 <summatusmentis> he said, phone, wifi, bluetooth, gps, for 250 euros
Jan 08 06:21:02 <free1> gotcha
Jan 08 06:21:27 <mgregson> free1: also, unlocked.  No plan or contract.  No subsidy.
Jan 08 06:22:04 <Linux_Galore> free1: with a complete hardware list and specifications and open source drivers
Jan 08 06:22:23 <free1> I'm going back to that bricks and mortar shop.  and get the leaflet or something, scan it on a paste-bin and paste it... for a no contract wifi bluetooth phone
Jan 08 06:22:28 <free1> forget gps
Jan 08 06:22:32 <free1> I never spoke about that
Jan 08 06:22:51 <free1> also, there is not point in getting a complete list of drivers
Jan 08 06:23:07 <free1> cuz the comparison is with the evil empire folks
Jan 08 06:23:15 <mgregson> free1: moko has gps
Jan 08 06:23:24 <mgregson> free1: What evil empire folks?
Jan 08 06:23:41 <free1> so, you're not trying to tell me that gps is the trump card, no?
Jan 08 06:23:45 <free1> anyways, 
Jan 08 06:23:51 <Linux_Galore> free1: you do know there are no opensource CDMA and GSM drivers for any chipset dont you, thats been one of the big headaches with the OM, part of getting the chipsets free is als accepting whatever locked in closed drivers they give you, and often the drivers are very buggy just look at the Windows Mobile platform and how buggy the closed drivers are 
Jan 08 06:24:10 <mgregson> free1: No, I'm not.  I'm saying you pay for hardware features.
Jan 08 06:24:34 <free1> It's past midnight, and I have to wait some for the store to open.  is 24 hours ok?
Jan 08 06:24:53 * summatusmentis pulls himself out of the conversation, enough feeding the trolls
Jan 08 06:25:19 <free1> ay, just as long as that's all you're pulling
Jan 08 06:25:24 <free1> holla
Jan 08 06:26:00 <summatusmentis> can we ban him?
Jan 08 06:26:13 <tsuramoto> operator I need an exit
Jan 08 06:26:40 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: if we ban him he wins
Jan 08 06:27:29 <summatusmentis> so we give some loser the satisfaction of thinking that he won, and we win because we don't have to listen to him anymore?
Jan 08 06:27:37 <summatusmentis> he's not gonna change his mind
Jan 08 06:27:44 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: no, we try to logically talk to them
Jan 08 06:28:03 <summatusmentis> and they don't change their mind
Jan 08 06:28:11 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: part of dealing with people is understanding their needs
Jan 08 06:28:36 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: changing peoples minds takes time
Jan 08 06:28:37 <summatusmentis> I agree
Jan 08 06:29:06 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: he is complaining about the price of freedom, the answer is simple, freedom is expensive
Jan 08 06:29:27 <summatusmentis> he's trolling, wanting to rile people up
Jan 08 06:29:37 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: then dont get riled 
Jan 08 06:29:57 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: he losed face when you dont wander of the path
Jan 08 06:30:02 <Linux_Galore> loses*
Jan 08 06:30:37 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: imagine it a star wars jedi thing
Jan 08 06:30:59 <mgregson> lol
Jan 08 06:31:36 <summatusmentis> I guess I don't understand the point of humoring someone who is trying to get reactions, as compared to just not paying them any regard
Jan 08 06:31:58 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: all products are challenged, I work in marketing and get challenged every 5 minutes, what I never do is wander of the path
Jan 08 06:32:38 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis:  welcome to the consumer world
Jan 08 06:32:45 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: I hate consumerism :-)
Jan 08 06:32:51 <Linux_Galore> cheaper faster crappier 
Jan 08 06:33:14 <summatusmentis> also, most smartphones cost about the same, with no openness
Jan 08 06:33:24 <Linux_Galore> licky for me I work for a company that ignores the motto of "cheaper faster crappier"
Jan 08 06:33:25 <summatusmentis> so, this freedom you speak of is close to being free
Jan 08 06:33:29 <Linux_Galore> lucky*
Jan 08 06:33:54 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: freedom is expensive, thats all you need to remember
Jan 08 06:34:12 <summatusmentis> maybe $50 :-)
Jan 08 06:35:24 <summatusmentis> I don't wanna graduate and have to go out into the real world
Jan 08 06:35:37 <Linux_Galore> heh, the biggest problem OM has right now is the plethora of allmost free Linux mobiles heading our way in 2008
Jan 08 06:36:32 <summatusmentis> is palm still working on a linux based OS?
Jan 08 06:36:40 <mbuf> Linux_Galore, that is very true
Jan 08 06:37:04 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: not sure to be honest, Palm seem to have gone down the path of cheap and crappy
Jan 08 06:37:25 <summatusmentis> my uncle just bought a centro
Jan 08 06:37:29 <summatusmentis> so people still want them
Jan 08 06:37:44 <Linux_Galore> mbuf: dont know, might whip the OM crew to hussle 
Jan 08 06:38:26 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: centro I would say has saved Palm from the fire but it wont last long
Jan 08 06:38:26 <mbuf> Linux_Galore, it would depend on who is backing which project :)
Jan 08 06:39:13 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: yes, and no
Jan 08 06:39:36 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: Palm have a Pink Centro being released soon, when a company starts releasing "Pink" colours you know they are running out of winners 
Jan 08 06:39:37 <summatusmentis> it means that people still want to use palm OS, which means palm needs to get their horses into gear, and fix it
Jan 08 06:40:15 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: I havent seen anyone using a Palm Treo for ages here in Sydney
Jan 08 06:41:06 <ewon> cute asian girl sitting beside me on the plane had a pink treo
Jan 08 06:41:09 <summatusmentis> I still see a fair amount of people using them in the US
Jan 08 06:41:58 <summatusmentis> I'm thinking about taking my uncles treo, and hacking it to my provider
Jan 08 06:42:46 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: all the business typed I see now use blueberry phones
Jan 08 06:42:53 <Linux_Galore> types*
Jan 08 06:43:22 <Linux_Galore> in the last year I cant remember a business person being seen with a treo
Jan 08 06:43:50 <summatusmentis> well, I assume it's because palm hasn't stepped up
Jan 08 06:44:15 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: true, Palm got caught sitting on their hands
Jan 08 06:44:33 <Linux_Galore> Blueberry are now kicking their asses
Jan 08 06:45:08 <summatusmentis> I think if palm could re-release an OS, a number of people would switch back
Jan 08 06:45:13 <Linux_Galore> Palm need a new OS and a new method
Jan 08 06:45:42 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah but now Samsung also make Treo like phones 
Jan 08 06:45:54 <mbuf> anyone using qemu on host PC from a recent build? my build fails with audio/audio.d no such file
Jan 08 06:46:13 <Linux_Galore> so do LG and Toshiba and HTC, Apple seem to be the only company bringing out a new concept
Jan 08 06:46:19 <summatusmentis> mmm
Jan 08 06:46:31 <summatusmentis> i need to sleep, I'll be around tomorrow
Jan 08 06:46:39 <Linux_Galore> night summatusmentis
Jan 08 06:46:52 <summatusmentis> goodnight Linux_Galore, all
Jan 08 06:47:29 <Linux_Galore> to be honest all the big makers in the mobile market seem very stagnant right now
Jan 08 06:47:59 <Linux_Galore> Apple couldnt have picked a better time to bring out its bouncing beach ball phone
Jan 08 06:49:25 <Linux_Galore> some pic's of Windows Mobile 8 are doing the rounds, bet Steve is laughing his ass off, oooh look they have added lots more cute icons
Jan 08 06:50:15 <Linux_Galore> if Microsoft got off their lame asses and made mobiles we would be all in trouble
Jan 08 06:50:27 <Linux_Galore> then again maybe not
Jan 08 06:51:25 * Linux_Galore . o O (mentally chuckles over the XBRICK 360)
Jan 08 06:52:58 * Linux_Galore sings "why are we waiting, sitting around gesticulating, when ooh when am I going to get a .....phoooone" 
Jan 08 06:54:37 <bmidgley> hmm can't use the angstrom instructions now
Jan 08 06:54:40 <bmidgley> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Angstrom_on_Neo1973
Jan 08 06:54:43 <bmidgley> images aren't there
Jan 08 06:55:04 <bmidgley> I just wanted to test something from the latest oe
Jan 08 07:02:03 <mgregson> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Samsung_S3C2442B
Jan 08 07:02:12 <mgregson> claims that the cpu clocks up to 500mhz
Jan 08 07:02:26 <mgregson> but the datasheet says it's internal clock wont move above 400
Jan 08 07:02:31 <CIA-15> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3784 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/usock.c: gsmd: fix segfault for list operator names (Sean Chiang)
Jan 08 08:25:28 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jan 08 08:25:45 <tsuramoto> we lost contact with gamma 12
Jan 08 08:26:53 <mudyc> mickeyl: could you add the fso to my project page in projects.ltg?
Jan 08 09:43:19 <josch> is there a list anywhere of the values of all the standard uboot entries? I currently only have boot and factory defaults but also want things like shutdown - whats possible?
Jan 08 10:33:51 <hrw> morning
Jan 08 10:34:38 <Stephmw> heya
Jan 08 10:38:38 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/07/how-to-replace-zaurus-pda/ 
Jan 08 11:24:18 <iw3hj> hi!
Jan 08 12:15:19 <florian> good morning
Jan 08 12:16:19 <Stephmw> howdy
Jan 08 12:25:03 <mickeyl> morning
Jan 08 12:25:07 <mickeyl> mudyc: you should now have access
Jan 08 12:25:10 <SpeedEvil> Morning!
Jan 08 12:25:34 <SpeedEvil> Something to do with your freerunner on a 787.
Jan 08 12:25:35 <SpeedEvil> Gunter added that although data can pass between the networks,
Jan 08 12:25:35 <SpeedEvil> "there are protections in place" to ensure that the passenger Internet
Jan 08 12:25:35 <SpeedEvil> service doesn't access the maintenance data or the navigation system "under
Jan 08 12:25:36 <mudyc> mickeyl: thanks
Jan 08 12:25:37 <SpeedEvil> any circumstance."
Jan 08 12:26:11 <SpeedEvil> An aircraft without air-gaps between the user and important networks...
Jan 08 12:26:18 <cb23> SpeedEvil, protection? like a windows firewall?
Jan 08 12:26:39 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't matter. It's protection, therefore it must work.
Jan 08 12:26:44 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jan 08 12:26:49 <cb23> very sad :/
Jan 08 12:26:59 <mudyc> mickeyl: are you going to send the RFC you were talking about?
Jan 08 12:27:18 * _buz note to self: never fly 787
Jan 08 12:27:29 <cb23> seriously thought, what are/were they thinking?
Jan 08 12:27:39 <_buz> nothing?
Jan 08 12:28:04 <cb23> any competent 14 year old could tell you the most secure way to separate things is not to join them
Jan 08 12:28:06 <SpeedEvil> cbrake_away: I suspect it was a neglected area of the design.
Jan 08 12:28:11 <SpeedEvil> cb2:
Jan 08 12:28:43 <cb23> SpeedEvil, indeed, but its quite retarded when you look at how strictly other aspects have to be controlled
Jan 08 12:29:16 <mickeyl> mudyc: i will, i just want to complete two or three more xml files before we dive into the discussion of changing/improving the interfaces. i hope i can finish that at the latest tomorrow
Jan 08 12:29:25 <mickeyl> everything always takes longer as expected
Jan 08 12:29:29 <mickeyl> i wonder whether this is a natural law or what
Jan 08 12:29:30 <mickeyl> :D
Jan 08 12:29:49 <mudyc> heh, things happens
Jan 08 12:29:53 <cb23> mickeyl, then give yourself a day to do a 3 day project ;)
Jan 08 12:30:00 <cb23> that way you'll finish on time!
Jan 08 12:32:57 <mbuf> trying to get USB-networking openmoko under qemu working; mount /dev/gadget returns "unknown filesystem "gadgetfs"; why?
Jan 08 12:33:14 <mbuf> using Debian Etch
Jan 08 12:35:21 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, there was some regression in the qemu that is causing this iirc....http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1102
Jan 08 12:36:17 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, i see
Jan 08 12:38:09 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, how do you disable dynticks? (bug #1103)
Jan 08 12:39:53 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, i have no idea =(, i havent had much luck with qemu-neo1973 and networking
Jan 08 12:40:46 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, i have been able to build code from svn; copied usb_gadget relevant headers; just need to mount this to stuff to use it
Jan 08 12:41:01 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, follow manual setup, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup
Jan 08 12:41:10 <mbuf> brb
Jan 08 12:42:13 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, i tried that...some one has been playing around with usb_gadgetfs.h, nneeded to find an old kernel which had that header in the proper place
Jan 08 12:50:56 <magellan> good morning all
Jan 08 12:53:51 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, how old? which kernel version?
Jan 08 12:55:29 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, its not in the kernels 2.6.23, got it from 2.6.20 or something
Jan 08 12:55:36 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, ok
Jan 08 12:59:54 <magellan> is mickeyl around, or does someone want to help me with some build problems under moko makefile?
Jan 08 13:00:45 <mickeyl> i'm around, but I'm afraid I can't help you with mokomakefile since I never used it
Jan 08 13:03:14 <magellan> mickeyl: you were able to give me some pointers and tell me why my comlies wasn't working about 4 days ago. 
Jan 08 13:03:27 <mickeyl> well
Jan 08 13:03:29 <mickeyl> basically
Jan 08 13:03:45 <mickeyl> monotone.openembedded.org synced with oe.org when oe.org was not building
Jan 08 13:03:46 <magellan> you said that the developers had commited a revision to HEAD that didn't compitle
Jan 08 13:03:50 <mickeyl> right
Jan 08 13:03:54 <magellan> ya
Jan 08 13:04:02 <mickeyl> and it seems there has been no sync since then
Jan 08 13:04:08 <mickeyl> so the recommendation still the same
Jan 08 13:04:13 <mickeyl> * wait
Jan 08 13:04:17 <magellan> Ive tried to get around this but this is my first dive into work like this
Jan 08 13:04:17 <mickeyl> or
Jan 08 13:04:19 <mickeyl> * use org.oe.dev for the time being
Jan 08 13:05:12 <magellan> Ive spend some time trying to figure out what you meant by that but I have been unable to figure it out
Jan 08 13:05:57 <mickeyl> ah
Jan 08 13:06:02 <mickeyl> well, apparantly there's some 
Jan 08 13:06:21 <mickeyl> target
Jan 08 13:06:56 <mickeyl> to update from there
Jan 08 13:08:33 <mickeyl> make update-bleeding-edge or so
Jan 08 13:08:45 <mickeyl> rwhitby would know for sure, it's his baby
Jan 08 13:09:27 <rwhitby> yep, that's it
Jan 08 13:09:48 <rwhitby> note that it's a one-way-street until the next OE->OM sync
Jan 08 13:10:13 <magellan> meaning once I do this there is no turning back
Jan 08 13:11:43 <rwhitby> not until OM catches up with that bleeding edge
Jan 08 13:12:00 <magellan> so would I need to change OM_MONOTONE_SITE := monotone.openmoko.org      to       OM_MONOTONE_SITE := org.oe.dev
Jan 08 13:12:50 <rwhitby> no, mickeyl gave you wrong information.  you're using the org.openembedded.dev branch in both cases, but you'd be syncing with monotone.openembedded.org instead of the stable monotone.openmoko.org
Jan 08 13:13:25 <rwhitby> (make update-bleeding-edge does this automatically for you)
Jan 08 13:13:45 <rwhitby> update-bleeding-edge:
Jan 08 13:13:45 <rwhitby>         ${MAKE} OM_MONOTONE_SITE=monotone.openembedded.org update
Jan 08 13:13:56 <hrw> mickeyl: cant openmoko create org.openembedded.openmoko branch on own server and propagate it from time to time?
Jan 08 13:14:14 <rwhitby> hrw: there be dragons
Jan 08 13:14:24 <hrw> mickeyl: it will make live easier as you will have total control over it and only one server with it
Jan 08 13:14:45 <mickeyl> hrw: sure, they can do that. but I'd rather not have us do this. look at what dreambox became
Jan 08 13:14:54 <mickeyl> this road is dangerous
Jan 08 13:15:13 <hrw> mickeyl: the one which you go now is not safe too
Jan 08 13:15:27 <mickeyl> why not?
Jan 08 13:15:29 <rwhitby> hrw: it is if everyone obeys the road rules
Jan 08 13:15:38 <mickeyl> this particular incident was an accidant
Jan 08 13:15:39 <hrw> *if* everyone
Jan 08 13:15:40 <mickeyl> i think
Jan 08 13:16:03 <rwhitby> we need to call an ambulance to fix it :-)
Jan 08 13:16:20 <mickeyl> pester JohnLee or XorA 
Jan 08 13:16:28 <mickeyl> they should have access to the server
Jan 08 13:16:42 <XorA> whats happening?
Jan 08 13:16:57 <mickeyl> someone apparantly sync'ed with org.oe.dev when it was not building
Jan 08 13:17:06 <mickeyl> and it's not been resynced since then
Jan 08 13:17:16 <mickeyl> so HEAD at monotone.openmoko.org is not building atm.
Jan 08 13:17:21 <mickeyl> and it's been like that for days
Jan 08 13:17:39 <hrw> mickeyl: you do not have daily autobuilder?
Jan 08 13:17:52 <mickeyl> no idea
Jan 08 13:18:12 <XorA> john told me it built as long as you dont use autorev
Jan 08 13:18:25 <mickeyl> i don't think so
Jan 08 13:18:27 <mickeyl> it's not just the terminal
Jan 08 13:18:34 <mickeyl> if you fix that, then it complains about uboot
Jan 08 13:18:39 <mickeyl> which received some renamings
Jan 08 13:18:49 <magellan> so basically if I do       make update-bleeding-edge    followed by make openmoko-devel-image      then I should be good to go?
Jan 08 13:18:52 <mickeyl> so i guess the rev. was not tested that has been checked out
Jan 08 13:19:07 <mickeyl> yeah, or make openmoko-image, which is faster
Jan 08 13:19:13 <mickeyl> [if you don't need the devel tools]
Jan 08 13:19:58 * rwhitby notes mickeyl didn't say "source ./setup-env ; bitbake openmoko-image" ;-)
Jan 08 13:20:09 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 08 13:20:12 <XorA> hmm, this slowdown idea isnt going to work
Jan 08 13:20:12 <mickeyl> mark that day
Jan 08 13:20:24 <XorA> we need to advertise golden revs, not slow the tree I think
Jan 08 13:20:40 <mickeyl> it worked fine until a couple of days ago
Jan 08 13:20:53 <mickeyl> when it was updated without testing
Jan 08 13:21:03 <mickeyl> then it can break, yeah
Jan 08 13:21:09 <XorA> mickeyl: well check who synced those revs
Jan 08 13:21:32 <XorA> I thought john was the only one with push access to mtn.om.org
Jan 08 13:21:51 <mickeyl> i don't know whom he gave access now
Jan 08 13:21:53 <mickeyl> who synced?
Jan 08 13:22:54 * XorA hasnt got a mtn.om.org tree
Jan 08 13:37:04 <CIA-48> openmoko: 03mickey * r3785 10/trunk/src/host/xoo/om-launch: xoo: add om-launch script
Jan 08 13:43:05 <magellan> rwhitby: mickeyl: it still fails with openmoko-terminal2, it is unable to fetch due to 404 file not found, You said I needed to remove this from the build, where would I need to remove it from in order to have it not be built.
Jan 08 13:43:24 <mickeyl> check where your sources are
Jan 08 13:43:31 <mickeyl> then rm -rf openmoko-terminal2
Jan 08 13:43:34 <mickeyl> and let it redownload
Jan 08 13:43:42 <mickeyl> e.g.
Jan 08 13:44:26 <magellan> it is downloading for the first time and gets a 404:file not found error,     openmoko-terminal2 isn't on the server
Jan 08 13:44:44 <mickeyl> interesting
Jan 08 13:44:49 <mickeyl> which revision is it trying to download?
Jan 08 13:47:00 <magellan> I believe head      .trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz'
Jan 08 13:47:21 <mickeyl> 3542 is not head
Jan 08 13:47:29 <mickeyl> but anyways
Jan 08 13:47:40 <mickeyl> it's normal that a said rev is not on the mirror server
Jan 08 13:47:47 <mickeyl> it just tries it first
Jan 08 13:47:50 <mickeyl> then tries to download from svn
Jan 08 13:49:32 <magellan> rwhitby: any thoughts on this?
Jan 08 13:50:49 * Stephmw starts looking around for any FOSS places hiring
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko: 03werner * r3786 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: 
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko: uboot-gta02.patch:
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (board_init): increase clock speed on GTA02 from
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko:  FCLK = 211 MHz, HCLK = 70 MHz, PCLK = 35 MHz
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko:  to
Jan 08 13:52:12 <CIA-48> openmoko:  FCLK = 400 MHz, HCLK = 100 MHz, PCLK = 50 MHz
Jan 08 13:56:23 <CIA-48> openmoko: 03werner * r3787 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: 
Jan 08 13:56:23 <CIA-48> openmoko: uboot-gta02.patch:
Jan 08 13:56:23 <CIA-48> openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: remove obsolete comment about needing a voltage
Jan 08 13:56:23 <CIA-48> openmoko:  increase
Jan 08 13:56:42 <rtp> magellan: hi. Was it you who was trying to use the usb host patch ?
Jan 08 14:00:09 <magellan> rtp: indeed is was
Jan 08 14:00:42 <magellan> and I had it working until I did an update and had everything stop compiling
Jan 08 14:01:15 <rtp> magellan: ok
Jan 08 14:01:25 <rtp> magellan: what kind of device you tested ?
Jan 08 14:03:16 <magellan> rtp: a usb serial device
Jan 08 14:04:00 <magellan> it wasn't nearly as hard as I expected
Jan 08 14:05:37 <rtp> did you try a powered device like a usb hard driver with its own powersupply ? 
Jan 08 14:07:22 <magellan> I used a three headed cable
Jan 08 14:08:16 <magellan> The device is powered but I don't know if it puts that power on the USB cable, I didn't think to plug it in without the power hooked up
Jan 08 14:08:46 <magellan> I will have to try that once I get a working kernel again
Jan 08 14:10:10 <magellan> the only other thing I had to do was to make sure the drivers were on the device, which they were, and then insmod usbserial.ko product=0xXXXX vendor=0xXXX from the correct directory.
Jan 08 14:10:13 <SpeedEvil> rtyler: it may not work. Many self-powered devices will not wake up without USB power.
Jan 08 14:10:18 <SpeedEvil> rtp:
Jan 08 14:10:24 <rtp> magellan: ok. I'll try it when my kernel tree will be up. Thanks for the answers 
Jan 08 14:10:40 <SpeedEvil> magellan: they make USB devices too - I thought they just did beer.
Jan 08 14:11:25 <magellan> SpeedEvil: I would expect you are right about the power, I may have to open it up and do some jumpering
Jan 08 14:11:35 <rtp> SpeedEvil: my setup is working on my n800. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean it'll work on the neo :/
Jan 08 14:11:57 <magellan> the 800, how hackable is that decice
Jan 08 14:12:15 <jonkristian> I want one, should i wait, are there any upcoming hardware upgrades worth waiting for?
Jan 08 14:13:00 <magellan> jonkristian: one what?
Jan 08 14:13:11 <rtp> magellan: I don't know, I don't use my n800 for hacking. I've a n770 for that :)
Jan 08 14:13:33 <jonkristian> ah, sorry, neo1973
Jan 08 14:14:22 <SpeedEvil> the curente version has no wifi
Jan 08 14:14:39 <jonkristian> SpeedEvil: oh, still? hmm...
Jan 08 14:14:55 <SpeedEvil> No. The version you can buy now has been on sale since july.
Jan 08 14:15:09 <magellan> jonkristian: I would wait for the next version
Jan 08 14:15:11 <SpeedEvil> Though it is now _much_ faster to ship.
Jan 08 14:15:49 <jonkristian> sweet, any news on when we might be expecting the next version? that's gta03 right?
Jan 08 14:16:05 <SpeedEvil> nope.
Jan 08 14:16:10 <SpeedEvil> 02
Jan 08 14:16:10 <zash> afaik there will be no gta03
Jan 08 14:16:31 <SpeedEvil> It'll be at least 2 months.
Jan 08 14:16:42 <SpeedEvil> I would not be surprised at 5
Jan 08 14:16:52 <SpeedEvil> 2 requires _lots_ of things to go right.
Jan 08 14:17:01 <zash> they say ~march for gta02 aka freerunner
Jan 08 14:17:02 <SpeedEvil> and for there to be no delays
Jan 08 14:17:12 <SpeedEvil> maybe.
Jan 08 14:17:40 <jonkristian> ok, any place i can be sure to get the release info first? like, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
Jan 08 14:17:57 <zash> and then it most likly wont be ready for everyday phone-usage
Jan 08 14:18:03 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Jan 08 14:18:05 <zash> jonkristian: mailinglists
Jan 08 14:18:06 <jonkristian> so, gta02 contains wifi, i thought gta02 was out now, hehe
Jan 08 14:18:26 <jonkristian> zash: good idea
Jan 08 14:18:28 <SpeedEvil> jonkristian: there are maybe 10 sort-of-working prototypes, with severe bugs.
Jan 08 14:18:55 <jonkristian> ah
Jan 08 14:19:44 <SpeedEvil> they are being used for driver development to see if there are other hardware bugs in the hardware the drivers are being developed for, before committing to a new version
Jan 08 14:22:37 <jonkristian> wifi is well worth waiting for:)
Jan 08 14:24:02 <zash> anyone got any idea if om could be ported to neonode n2?
Jan 08 14:24:25 <SpeedEvil> ram/rom/cpu?
Jan 08 14:26:29 <zash> duno, runns wince off miniSD
Jan 08 14:27:02 <SpeedEvil> probably in principle.
Jan 08 14:28:51 <zash> nice ui thou
Jan 08 14:30:01 <El_Salvador> gta03?
Jan 08 14:30:46 * zash was refering to neno, ui of neonode
Jan 08 14:31:43 <jonkristian> El_Salvador: my bad, i just thought i had seen that somewhere, but i think there was some missunderstandings about that on youtube or something
Jan 08 14:32:00 <jonkristian> *just*
Jan 08 14:33:59 <El_Salvador> maybe the game
Jan 08 14:34:02 <El_Salvador> :)
Jan 08 15:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: 03werner * r3788 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (fbset-gta02-core.patch fbset-smedia-glamo.patch series): (log message trimmed)
Jan 08 15:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: ddition of xrandr support for GTA02:
Jan 08 15:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1145
Jan 08 15:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: In particular, this is the kernel patch (changed GLAMO_LOG a little):
Jan 08 15:52:50 <CIA-1> openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=459
Jan 08 15:52:52 <CIA-1> openmoko: Note: this doesn't work yet but crashes the kernel at driver initialization
Jan 08 15:52:54 <CIA-1> openmoko: instead. Don't enable !
Jan 08 16:01:27 <CIA-1> openmoko: 03werner * r3789 10/trunk/src/target/ (kernel/scripts/build u-boot/scripts/build): 
Jan 08 16:01:27 <CIA-1> openmoko: - u-boot/scripts/build, kernel/scripts/build: removed "don't use" header
Jan 08 16:01:27 <CIA-1> openmoko: - u-boot/scripts/build: fixed space typo, breaking git version selection
Jan 08 16:01:27 <CIA-1> openmoko: - kernel/scripts/build: also update defconfig's SVN revision
Jan 08 16:04:50 <Twey> So what's all this FreeRunner talk about?
Jan 08 16:05:00 <mjr> it's a market name for gta02
Jan 08 16:05:08 <Twey> Ah
Jan 08 16:05:30 <Twey> Oh, yes, topic.  Heh.
Jan 08 16:05:54 <Twey> It won't be shipped with devel tools?
Jan 08 16:05:56 <XorA> it can run up walls and jump off cranes with a 007 following it
Jan 08 16:06:01 <Twey> Hahaha
Jan 08 16:07:52 <Xx13> but will it blend?
Jan 08 16:22:04 <thomasg> Xx13: you're spending one for blending? :)
Jan 08 16:22:14 <anrp> oh, the humanity
Jan 08 16:26:07 <Xx13> i'm not even sure i'll go for gta02, hw feels somewhat dated already
Jan 08 16:26:45 <drath> Xx13: compare it to the gta01, and that feeling will go away ;)
Jan 08 16:27:37 <anrp> :/
Jan 08 16:30:41 <Xx13> that's true, but it should rather be compared with other products on the market, shiny little nokias and htc that ppl run around with
Jan 08 17:10:49 <kdean06> Xx13, I suppose it depends on why you're buying into the OpenMoko ecosystem. For me, it's the commitment to Free Software from the developers here and from FIC. Nokia's stuff doesn't compare in that regard. And for me, there's not enough incentive to buy a GTA02 over an 01 based on my usage. :) It's all relative.
Jan 08 17:12:35 * mjr paints face blue: "Freerunnn-er!"
Jan 08 17:15:43 <wurp2> Xx13: Yeah, who cares how nice the hw is on a Nokia, when you can't do anything with it except what both the hw manufacturer and your network provider approve?
Jan 08 17:17:04 <mjr> Nokia is a dick anyway
Jan 08 17:17:12 <mjr> (yeah, I'm productive today)
Jan 08 17:19:29 <teprrr> but will freerunner have symbian?
Jan 08 17:19:50 <morricone> teprrr, why sould it have symbian?
Jan 08 17:19:55 <teprrr> if I'm gonna buy it I'll surely miss my sweeet little s60 :(
Jan 08 17:20:27 <zash> teprrr: nokia could port it to neo
Jan 08 17:20:36 <teprrr> because it's from nokia and gtk sucks ;)
Jan 08 17:20:59 <teprrr> symbian sucks too though
Jan 08 17:21:07 <zash> everything sucks
Jan 08 17:21:20 <zash> what matters is what sucks less
Jan 08 17:39:54 <teprrr> yup
Jan 08 18:06:11 <fanny_> I guy at digg said that freerunner will be released in the end of the next month, is this true? :)
Jan 08 18:07:31 <kdean06> fanny_, No, there is no information at this time about a release for Freerunner. Anything you hear is speculation at best.
Jan 08 18:07:38 <kdean06> A flat out lie at worst.
Jan 08 18:08:24 <kdean06> fanny_, We've got ceveral mailing lists you can join if you're watching in anticipation. :)
Jan 08 18:08:34 <kdean06> s/ceveral/several
Jan 08 18:12:35 <fanny_> nice kdean06 
Jan 08 18:12:43 <fanny_> where can I join them?
Jan 08 18:12:59 <fanny_> nvm foun it
Jan 08 18:13:04 <fanny_> found*
Jan 08 18:29:45 <inwoo> anyone have this odd issue? pcf50606_irq: and pcf50606_work keep scrolling messages and X never starts
Jan 08 18:54:26 <_Krieger_> question to all who had success in running openmoko in qemu: tell your distro and installed packages. i had gentoo and had freezing on booting of openmoko; now i have debian sid in vmware, likely followed instructions, but compilation fails. i don`t want to waste time on tuning debian, please, tell me straight way
Jan 08 18:57:31 <kdean06> _Krieger_, Works fine for me on Sid.
Jan 08 19:00:18 <_Krieger_> kdean06, can you tell me the list of installed packages on your Sid, please?
Jan 08 19:00:34 * _Krieger_ thinks about openmoko demo LiveCD
Jan 08 19:01:56 <kdean06> _Krieger_, Here you go. :P Long list -> http://www.pastebin.ca/847035
Jan 08 19:02:19 <_Krieger_> thanks
Jan 08 19:02:20 <kdean06> Oh, wait, this machine is Sidux. :S
Jan 08 19:02:27 <kdean06> But I've built it on both, so.
Jan 08 19:04:41 <erko> _Krieger__, It worked for me on ubuntu feisty.  I can't remember the packages and have upgraded to gutsy since then.
Jan 08 19:26:42 <SpekTrumBash> beer
Jan 08 19:26:43 <SpekTrumBash> need
Jan 08 19:26:44 <SpekTrumBash> beer
Jan 08 19:26:46 <SpekTrumBash> neeed
Jan 08 19:26:47 <SpekTrumBash> beeerr
Jan 08 19:26:49 <SpekTrumBash> dont kik
Jan 08 19:26:51 <SpekTrumBash> i smeelz it
Jan 08 19:26:53 <SpekTrumBash> siff
Jan 08 19:26:54 <SpekTrumBash> sniff
Jan 08 19:26:57 <SpekTrumBash> ppooof
Jan 08 19:26:59 <SpekTrumBash> \\
Jan 08 19:27:01 <SpekTrumBash> .//
Jan 08 19:27:02 <SpekTrumBash> .\\
Jan 08 19:27:03 <SpekTrumBash> .//
Jan 08 19:27:04 <SpekTrumBash> .\\
Jan 08 19:27:06 <SpekTrumBash> .////
Jan 08 19:27:07 * SpeedEvil gives SpekTrumBash a beer enema.
Jan 08 19:27:07 <SpekTrumBash> .\\
Jan 08 19:27:14 <mmontour> ~beer SpekTrumBash
Jan 08 19:27:15 * apt pulls out a exquisite Piraat for SpekTrumBash
Jan 08 19:27:33 <SpekTrumBash> glar P !!
Jan 08 19:27:34 <orospakr> is there going to be a new official build, at some point? "2008.1"?
Jan 08 19:29:30 <SpekTrumBash> run
Jan 08 20:49:20 * balrog-kun can finally play with the blinky LEDs after the customs decided to release my gta02 after one whole week of investigation
Jan 08 20:49:47 <ewon> heh
Jan 08 20:49:50 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jan 08 20:50:06 <ewon> so what's your opinion of the new hw?
Jan 08 20:50:15 <PP|Spydon> Was there anything nice about Freerunner on CES?
Jan 08 20:50:18 <SpeedEvil> this is gta02v4?
Jan 08 20:50:27 <SpeedEvil> ->bal
Jan 08 20:52:15 <balrog-kun> ewon: the progress it made is quite impressive, really there's so many details that have been fixed since gta01bv4
Jan 08 20:52:23 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: A4
Jan 08 20:52:35 <ewon> what's gps performance like?
Jan 08 20:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: 03werner * r3790 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (fbset-gta02-core.patch fbset-smedia-glamo.patch series): (log message trimmed)
Jan 08 20:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: Fixed the crash on initialization, which was a disagreement between allocated
Jan 08 20:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: and cleared memory. It's this patch, with trivial editing:
Jan 08 20:52:48 <CIA-1> openmoko: http://folks.o-hand.com/dodji/omoko/kernel/fix-glamo-fb-init-crash.patch.txt
Jan 08 20:52:50 <CIA-1> openmoko: fbset-gta02-core.patch:
Jan 08 20:52:52 <CIA-1> openmoko: - arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/mach-gta02.c (gta02_glamo_pdata): initialize
Jan 08 20:52:53 <balrog-kun> if it continues this way gta03 will rock :P
Jan 08 20:52:54 <CIA-1> openmoko:  fb_mem_size to 4MB (half of the SRAM available on the chip)
Jan 08 20:53:04 <balrog-kun> ewon: haven't checked yet
Jan 08 20:54:05 <ewon> I'm interested to see how it does against the Sirf-III in less than ideal conditions
Jan 08 20:54:51 * balrog-kun has plenty of those (conditions) ;)
Jan 08 20:56:16 <ewon> hah :)
Jan 08 21:06:35 <wurp2> balrog-kun: I have a little python script that reads gpsd and measures your distance from the time you started it up
Jan 08 21:06:39 <wurp2> in feet
Jan 08 21:06:55 <wurp2> It might or might not be handy in evaluating gps resolution
Jan 08 21:08:17 <wurp2> The script just hits gpsd every three seconds and tells you how far you are from the first location it acquired after starting up
Jan 08 21:08:40 <wurp2> of course, it requires pygps + all the basic python packages to be installed
Jan 08 21:08:49 <Crashbit> Alguno de habla hispana que me pueda ayudar!
Jan 08 21:09:29 <wurp2> Mi espanol es pobre, pero puedo intenter a ayudar...
Jan 08 21:10:30 <wurp2> s/intenter/intentar/
Jan 08 21:10:31 <apt> wurp2 meant: Mi espanol es pobre, pero puedo intentar a ayudar...
Jan 08 21:11:29 <wurp2> es possible que babelfish.altavista.com es mas provechoso que yo
Jan 08 21:12:09 <Crashbit> mm ok, thx, tengo un neo1973 y no consigo llamar por telefono, estaba buscando el kernel que le instale, pero no lo encuentro
Jan 08 21:12:37 <ewon> hablas englais?
Jan 08 21:12:53 <Crashbit> de hecho el neo1973 es nuevo, me ha llegado hoy, el modelo creo que es el GTA01B
Jan 08 21:13:01 <wurp2> cual kernel usa?
Jan 08 21:13:33 <wurp2> no creo que necesito nueva kernel
Jan 08 21:13:37 <Crashbit> wait a moment i'm searching kernel version
Jan 08 21:14:13 <Crashbit> 2.6.22.5
Jan 08 21:14:24 <wurp2> creo que tu' (no se como se dice, 'version') de gsm modem software no es correcto
Jan 08 21:14:53 <Crashbit> version=version :)
Jan 08 21:15:07 <wurp2> mira a http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT
Jan 08 21:15:13 <wurp2> muy bien ;-)
Jan 08 21:15:19 <wurp2> donde vive?
Jan 08 21:15:45 <Crashbit> en españa
Jan 08 21:15:57 <wurp2> ah
Jan 08 21:16:57 <wurp2> y cual red de telefono usa?
Jan 08 21:17:52 <wurp2> la gsm modem software version que es en el neo1973 cuando enviado no funcione para muchas cajas de SIM
Jan 08 21:17:55 <Crashbit> orange
Jan 08 21:18:07 <wurp2> disculpa me
Jan 08 21:18:09 <balrog-kun> wurp2: cool
Jan 08 21:18:12 <wurp2> no se como se dice
Jan 08 21:18:23 <balrog-kun> i perhaps won't have time to play with the gps until the weekend though
Jan 08 21:18:38 <wurp2> como ATT, Teletopia, Vodafone, TMobile, etc.
Jan 08 21:18:49 <wurp2> cual uno
Jan 08 21:19:05 <balrog-kun> also i'm from the gypsy camp and preferably would not install gpsd :P
Jan 08 21:19:27 <wurp2> balrog-kun: I don't think I understand
Jan 08 21:19:40 <wurp2> You don't want to use gps, or just have a problem with gpsd in particular?
Jan 08 21:20:11 <balrog-kun> wurp2: about gypsy? it's a different gps daemon
Jan 08 21:20:15 <balrog-kun> afaik less braindead than gpsd
Jan 08 21:20:28 <wurp2> ah, cool!
Jan 08 21:20:36 <wurp2> Is there a python module or it? ;-)
Jan 08 21:20:57 <wurp2> s/ or / for /
Jan 08 21:20:57 <apt> wurp2 meant: Is there a python module for it? ;-)
Jan 08 21:20:59 <balrog-kun> yes, it comes with a python example snippet
Jan 08 21:21:19 <wurp2> I'll have to look into the differences and maybe switch
Jan 08 21:21:25 <wurp2> I didn't know we had an alternative to gpsd
Jan 08 21:21:51 <wurp2> although it sounds to me as if the gps problems are lower level than gpsd - the output from nmeaNP has already been munged 
Jan 08 21:22:32 <zedstar> gypsy looks interesting i like its dbus integration
Jan 08 21:22:33 <balrog-kun> it's built on d-bus and doesn't have all the quirks for all the different gps devices implemented because it's quite young yet
Jan 08 21:22:40 <balrog-kun> wurp2: what gps problems?
Jan 08 21:22:52 <wurp2> really crappy resolution
Jan 08 21:23:03 <wurp2> not telling you any changes in position unless they're significant
Jan 08 21:23:33 <wurp2> gllin has to be 'cleaning' the data before they send it to us, since there's no noise when you're standing still
Jan 08 21:24:20 <wurp2> but it suddenly jumps by 20 or 50 feet (5 to 15 meters) when you move far enough
Jan 08 21:24:31 <balrog-kun> wurp2: oh i see
Jan 08 21:24:34 <balrog-kun> i didn't know
Jan 08 21:24:35 <zedstar> be cool if somebody is working on getting gpsy running with freerunner
Jan 08 21:24:45 <balrog-kun> wurp2: but i thought gllin was also used onthe TomTom earlier?
Jan 08 21:24:52 <wurp2> I didn't either until I started playing with my distance checking program
Jan 08 21:24:54 <PP|Spydon> does anyone know anything about hardware numbers?
Jan 08 21:24:56 * mwester is just grateful for what we have from Broadcom, as he didn't think that gllin would actually be delivered.
Jan 08 21:25:15 <wurp2> navit further cleans your position to force you to be in one of the possible places it thinks you can be
Jan 08 21:25:16 <balrog-kun> and TomTom afaik is regarded as one of the high-end GPSes?
Jan 08 21:25:22 <wurp2> I dunno
Jan 08 21:25:52 <wurp2> I just know that the data I get from the gps shows no motion when you move less than 2 meters (or it jumps & shows 10 meters difference)
Jan 08 21:26:07 <wurp2> It's possible that I have the scale of the sudden jumps wrong from bug in my software
Jan 08 21:26:31 <wurp2> but I don't see how I could fail to identify that the position is unchanging when you're still or most of the time when you move just a little
Jan 08 21:27:18 <wurp2> I will also double check to see that the problem is in the gllin output, not just gpsd
Jan 08 21:27:36 <wurp2> But I think it is in nmeaNP, not just gpsd
Jan 08 21:27:43 <balrog-kun> from what i read about Hammerhead it provided much better measures than most gpses on the market (which was supposed ot be a good justification for the driver limitations and price and dunno what else)
Jan 08 21:28:05 <balrog-kun> i have no firsthand experience though
Jan 08 21:29:05 <wurp2> It is possible too that the same algorithm that works wonders on the TomTom hardware is not so hot on the GTA01 hardware
Jan 08 21:29:44 <wurp2> I was just expecting something like 1.5 meter resolution on the GTA01, and unless I'm just totally off base in my code, it's more like 10 meters, at best
Jan 08 21:31:56 <balrog-kun> hmm i thought 1.5m was not even theoretically possible for a civil gps? (no gpsd etc)
Jan 08 21:32:33 <balrog-kun> err, d-gps
Jan 08 21:33:00 <balrog-kun> TomTom makes up for that by using good maps but i wouldn't expect 1.5m from it either
Jan 08 21:34:08 <balrog-kun> the hardware in the gta01 and the TomTom Go is supposed to be the exact same chip
Jan 08 21:35:19 <wurp2> Maybe I misread (or misremembered) the article I read
Jan 08 21:35:55 <wurp2> balrog-kun: But I would think that the antenna arrangement, interfernce from other components, etc. would make differences between TomTom and GTA01 results
Jan 08 21:38:20 <wurp2> Crashbit: ?sabe que puede usar http://babelfish.altavista.com/ a tranducir la website a espanol?
Jan 08 21:39:24 <wurp2> (la website = http://wiki.openmoko.org)
Jan 08 21:40:43 <JanC> I think with the motion censors, you can get to 1.5m *when moving* ?
Jan 08 21:43:59 <zedstar> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/08/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner/
Jan 08 21:44:01 <zedstar> kewl
Jan 08 21:47:51 <El_Salvador> :O
Jan 08 21:54:00 <El_Salvador> http://www.engadget.com/photos/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner/567695/
Jan 08 21:55:52 <Crashbit> wurp2: yes, thanks pero no me aclaro
Jan 08 22:03:29 <wurp2> Crashbit: En su caja de SIM, es un numero que identifica la version
Jan 08 22:03:55 <balrog-kun> Crashbit: tienes una rootfs mas o menos reciente?
Jan 08 22:04:12 <Crashbit> balrog-kun: si
Jan 08 22:04:18 <Crashbit> yes
Jan 08 22:04:33 <balrog-kun> desde alrededor de principios de diciembre creo que las llamadas funcionan segun la gente
Jan 08 22:04:46 <wurp2> Crashbit: en las paginas con titulo "Carriers", tablas identifican cual SIM version es apoyado y cual no son apoyado
Jan 08 22:05:28 <balrog-kun> o sea antes tambien funcionaban pero no sin intervenciones del usuario
Jan 08 22:05:49 <wurp2> suena como yo identifico el probelemo incorrecto - y balrog-kun tiene mucho mejor espanol que yo
Jan 08 22:06:28 <balrog-kun> :p no so much
Jan 08 22:06:40 <balrog-kun> but i would more likely bet on gsmd problems than hw
Jan 08 22:07:11 <wurp2> Well, I was trying to tell him that his SIM card might not be supported w/o the gsm modem sw update
Jan 08 22:07:19 <manulito> whats the status of batterylife, still around 5hours?
Jan 08 22:07:52 <balrog-kun> well, that's worth checking too but i think the unsupported SIMs are rather rare
Jan 08 22:07:57 <balrog-kun> i dunno though
Jan 08 22:07:59 <wurp2> weird
Jan 08 22:08:01 <Crashbit> mm the numer of SIM card have 19 digits
Jan 08 22:08:03 <wurp2> That was my problem
Jan 08 22:08:33 <balrog-kun> wurp2: and you updated your modem firmware?
Jan 08 22:08:34 <wurp2> Crashbit: el numero que es escrito en la caja?
Jan 08 22:08:40 <wurp2> (hardware, not software)
Jan 08 22:08:56 <wurp2> balrog-kun: Not yet; my neo is right now in transit to M Shiloh
Jan 08 22:09:04 <balrog-kun> wurp2: oh, cool
Jan 08 22:09:13 <wurp2> but my card is identified on the Carriers/ATT page as an unsupported one
Jan 08 22:09:18 <Crashbit> mm caja =? box or card
Jan 08 22:09:24 <wurp2> card
Jan 08 22:09:31 <wurp2> pardon :-)
Jan 08 22:09:59 <balrog-kun> es decir la tarjeta sim
Jan 08 22:10:03 <Crashbit> yes, the number have 19 digits, it's possible ?
Jan 08 22:10:20 * balrog-kun mas bien primero comprpbaria si gsmd corre y que errores da en los logs
Jan 08 22:10:55 <Crashbit> gsmd corre, /etc/init.d/gsmd start no da errores
Jan 08 22:11:48 <balrog-kun> en /tmp/gsm.log tienes una salida un poco mas detallada de gsmd
Jan 08 22:11:56 <wurp2> ah, entonces su SIM es aproyado
Jan 08 22:12:19 <donomo> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/08/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner/
Jan 08 22:12:25 <Crashbit> wurp2: como lo sabes ?
Jan 08 22:12:29 <wurp2> si, necesita mira /tmp/gsm.log para errores
Jan 08 22:12:59 <univac> :))
Jan 08 22:13:54 <wurp2> disculpa, no se que su SIM es aproyado
Jan 08 22:14:02 <wurp2> pero
Jan 08 22:16:22 <wurp2> (un momento, busco para un pagina que explica como a aprobar su SIM)
Jan 08 22:17:12 <wurp2> Does anyone know the URL of the GTA01 usage guide that guy put together?
Jan 08 22:17:18 <wurp2> Gregario, maybe?
Jan 08 22:18:54 <wurp2> He had a sequence of commands to play with libgsmd-tool, and it will tell Crashbit right away if his card is supported
Jan 08 22:21:05 <wurp2> Crashbit: intenta (en sh) 'libgsmd-tool -m shell'
Jan 08 22:21:19 <wurp2> (cuando gsmd es corre)
Jan 08 22:22:31 <bagpuss_thecat> br3n: you spamming whore
Jan 08 22:22:48 <wurp2> y entonces (en libgsmd-tool -m shell): AT+CFUN=1
Jan 08 22:22:50 <br3n> sorry brain not engaged ... no on purpose
Jan 08 22:23:30 <bagpuss_thecat> think before you speak, it'll save you from some nasty people next time
Jan 08 22:23:37 <balrog-kun> "O" in -m shell mode is "AT+CFUN=1" in -m atcmd mode
Jan 08 22:23:41 <wurp2> Can anyone kick these dueling bots?
Jan 08 22:23:52 <wurp2> O, oops
Jan 08 22:24:02 <cjb_ie> bagpuss_thecat: what is it with #osm and #openmoko'ers cross-pollinating ;)
Jan 08 22:24:15 <bagpuss_thecat> cjb_ie: oh ghod, not you as well :-)
Jan 08 22:24:15 <Crashbit> ok, wurp2 voy a probar
Jan 08 22:24:21 <cjb_ie> there's about a dozen of us
Jan 08 22:24:49 <wurp2> Crashbit: disculpa, usa 'libgsmd-tool -m atcmd', no usa 'libgsmd-tool -m shell'
Jan 08 22:25:05 <Ganneff> Crashbit, wurp2: could you (please) use english?
Jan 08 22:25:16 <wurp2> Crashbit: balrug-kun me corrige
Jan 08 22:25:35 <wurp2> Gannef: Crashbit doesn't speak much English, I guess, because he asked for help in spanish
Jan 08 22:25:51 <cjb_ie> bagpuss_thecat: (i may have been very, very sad and uniq'd the two /who lists sorted by hostname)
Jan 08 22:25:52 <wurp2> I don't speak much spanish, but I'm in there plugging away :-)
Jan 08 22:26:06 <bagpuss_thecat> cjb_ie: you need to get out more :-)
Jan 08 22:26:12 <Crashbit> yes Ganneff sorry i don't understand english and wurp2 help me in spanish
Jan 08 22:26:29 <cjb_ie> bagpuss_thecat: and do some mapping you mean? i quite agree.
Jan 08 22:26:37 <bagpuss_thecat> lol
Jan 08 22:27:01 <cjb_ie> got me a spark plug socket this morning, hopefully i won't break anything when i use it...
Jan 08 22:27:53 <Ganneff> Crashbit, wurp2: fine. just in case you need more time - you might want to take it to /msg, as this is mostly an english speaking channel... :)
Jan 08 22:28:26 <Crashbit> ok Ganneff i understand it, sorry :)
Jan 09 00:28:04 <nadio> what will the GTA02 cost? anyone got a clue? 100 usd 200 usd 300 usd ?
Jan 09 00:28:33 <LarstiQ> more to the end of that
Jan 09 00:28:47 <CoreDump> the prices are on the wiki somewhere AFAIK
Jan 09 00:30:54 <nadio> but not over 300-400 usd ?
Jan 09 00:31:15 <thomasg> afaik it's still 450$
Jan 09 00:31:36 <Dunedan> "Direct from openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo Advanced."
Jan 09 00:31:45 <Dunedan> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02
Jan 09 00:33:50 <SpeedEvil> that's ot changed since july
Jan 09 00:33:56 <SpeedEvil> I'd not be surprised if it changes
Jan 09 00:37:46 <nadio> No 3G support I gues?
Jan 09 00:37:52 <daMaestro> nope
Jan 09 00:41:09 <nadio> how about sound output?
Jan 09 00:41:31 <thseiler> 2.5 mm stereo jack and a mono speaker, as far as i know
Jan 09 00:41:40 <nadio> headphones?
Jan 09 00:41:53 <daMaestro> well.. the gta01 was stereo... but 02 will be mono
Jan 09 00:42:16 <daMaestro> (the headphones will still be stereo)
Jan 09 00:42:29 <nadio> yeah but 2.5 :(
Jan 09 00:42:37 <nadio> was thinking of using as an mp3 player as well
Jan 09 00:43:13 <thseiler> nadio: there are 2,5mm to 3,5mm converter cables cheap on ebay, it would be nice if they included one in the GTA02 package aswell...
Jan 09 00:43:43 <nadio> how about memory card slots?
Jan 09 00:45:27 <daMaestro> single microsd slot
Jan 09 00:50:38 <nadio> how about usb expansion slots?
Jan 09 00:50:48 <nadio> say connect a CF card, to usb ?
Jan 09 00:51:07 <CoreDump> It can do USB host
Jan 09 00:55:11 <thseiler> Hm, does anybody know which GPS chip is used in the FreeRunner, aka GTA02 ?
Jan 09 00:55:24 <thseiler> I've just came across the ublox 5 (http://www.u-blox.com/products/u5products.html)
Jan 09 00:55:41 <SpeedEvil> it's serial NMEA
Jan 09 00:56:14 <thseiler> great, so no more proprietary daemons to fight with :-)
Jan 09 00:56:20 <SpeedEvil> :<
Jan 09 00:56:27 * thseiler is a bad dragon fighter anyway...
Jan 09 00:56:37 * SpeedEvil would have much preferred the 'GL release source or docs' option
Jan 09 00:57:09 <thseiler> but the 1 sec time to fix of ublox 5 seems interesting
Jan 09 00:57:18 <SpeedEvil> If it's real.
Jan 09 00:58:07 <thseiler> dont' know. anyway, they are selling samles now, and if gta02 uses indeed a ublox chip, they should check that their design is upwards compatible to ublox 5 so that a switch is easy later on...
Jan 09 00:58:30 <thseiler> ideally *before* they spin the next pcb version...
Jan 09 01:02:32 <SpeedEvil> They don't care.
Jan 09 01:02:43 <thseiler> seems so :-(
Jan 09 01:02:50 <SpeedEvil> GTA02 is not going to a 03 version reportedly.
Jan 09 01:02:55 <SpeedEvil> so that doesn't matter.
Jan 09 01:03:14 <thseiler> huh ? 
Jan 09 01:04:15 <thseiler> so the start over with UMTS and a better case  ? or they stop 
Jan 09 01:04:26 <SpeedEvil> New case, ...
Jan 09 01:04:39 <thseiler> i was worried :-)
Jan 09 01:04:59 <thseiler> but that is good news, i think
Jan 09 01:05:25 <SpeedEvil> In some ways, the 'best' situation for them is that FIC falls into the background, and more and more phones start running openmoko.
Jan 09 01:05:36 <SpeedEvil> (them being the company openmoko)
Jan 09 01:06:04 <SpeedEvil> then they will have achieved their objective - which is to let FIC compete on a more-or-less even basis with nokia/..., as a phone maker.
Jan 09 01:06:40 <SpeedEvil> Transitioning mobiles from the locked-in special purpose computer, to the PC model.
Jan 09 01:08:04 <thseiler> choice is always good . hope they add a model with camera, not for me, but to stop these endless discussions on -community
Jan 09 01:29:54 <mmontour> http://www.genie-sys.com/products.html <-- might address some of the "no camera" complaints
Jan 09 01:30:03 <SpeedEvil> bluetooth cam?
Jan 09 01:30:36 <mmontour> Yes, featured on gizmodo.com today
Jan 09 01:30:44 <SpeedEvil> sigh
Jan 09 01:30:45 <SpeedEvil> damn
Jan 09 01:30:56 <SpeedEvil> I'd hoped to get one of those to market. Oh well.
Jan 09 01:30:58 <mmontour> Another CES "coming soon" demo
Jan 09 01:31:20 <mmontour> You may still have time if you move quickly :)
Jan 09 01:32:23 <SpeedEvil> naah - I'm stuck on another project.
Jan 09 01:34:16 <SpeedEvil> Which is in concept similar - but more distance (uav)
Jan 09 01:36:48 <mmontour> That sounds like a fun project.
Jan 09 01:40:16 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png - thrust vectored UAV.
Jan 09 01:59:22 <mmontour> SpeedEvil: have you seen this one? http://aroundthenet.ca/2007/12/21/gfs-the-real-world-flying-saucer/
Jan 09 02:34:17 <cesarb> Looks like the bozo who was using ARP tricks to pretend to be the ISP's gateway has gone away
Jan 09 02:39:17 <cesarb> ...and the bozo was editing the HTTP replies and injecting a javascript which loaded an obfuscated javascript from a randomly-named server. Nasty.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 09 02:59:58 2008