**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 09 02:59:58 2008 Jan 09 05:25:14 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3791 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/usock.h src/gsmd/sms_pdu.c): gsmd: add TP-MTI to gsmd_sms (Erin Yueh) Jan 09 07:12:29 can gprs, the amount of traffic skype generates? Jan 09 07:13:45 maybe, but nost carriers have in the TOS you wont use voip over wireless ip Jan 09 07:21:44 you don't want to do voip over gprs (and skype is evil) Jan 09 07:30:49 mjr: well any IM-service voice-ip, and why is that=? Jan 09 07:30:59 mjr: I am wondering if it can technicaly handel the data load... **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 09 07:33:06 2008 Jan 09 07:38:47 looks like iRiver have a Linux telephone too http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/iriver-3-inch-touchscreen-gsm-phone-headed-for-the-states/ Jan 09 07:39:01 looks a bit like the iSuck Jan 09 07:40:29 oh, and lemme guess, they're starting a *first* free linux mobile stack project in cooperation with the opensource community and the market players Jan 09 07:41:07 nadio, the latency sucks and quality of service isn't; the bandwidth itself isn't that much of a problem Jan 09 07:42:09 mjr: but there is a lot of users of 3g+skype? Jan 09 07:43:06 well in two days Ive seen three new Linux phones all will be released with 3G by the 3rd 1/4 2008 Jan 09 07:43:32 Linux_Galore: what ones, palm or? Jan 09 07:43:41 nadio, note how you didn't say gprs+skype Jan 09 07:43:50 nadio: not palm, Ive posted the urls in here already Jan 09 07:45:47 Linux_Galore: you think you could look up them again, and repost? Jan 09 07:47:19 nadio: heres the nicest one I have seen http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-wistron-newebs-gw4-linux-phone/ Jan 09 07:48:21 Moto have a new Ming http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/18/motorolas-linux-based-ming-2-in-q2 Jan 09 07:49:31 Ooh, a Linux phone with 3G and qwerty... Jan 09 07:49:37 thats not the phone Im looking for Jan 09 07:50:05 Hirvinen: yeah wont have 3G on the initial release though have to wait till later in the year for that Jan 09 07:50:34 ie the third phone wasnt the Ming Jan 09 07:50:40 thats old new Jan 09 07:50:41 s Jan 09 07:51:18 or should I say Ming 2 A1600 Jan 09 07:52:09 meh!, lots the ling for another no name brand who are releasing a Linux phone Jan 09 07:52:12 lost* Jan 09 07:52:43 meh!, lost the link for another no name brand who are releasing a Linux phone this year* Jan 09 07:53:14 its raining Linux devices at CES this year Jan 09 07:53:45 HP have a pile of new handy dandy home media storage and distribution devices that run Linux Jan 09 07:54:38 couldnt the gsm chip on openmoko be changed to a 3g chip? Jan 09 07:55:11 no Jan 09 07:55:48 Linux_Galore, wonder if any of those are open... Jan 09 07:56:27 mjr: well the GW4 is an Android phone Jan 09 07:56:39 Linux_Galore, yes, I wonder if any of those are open... Jan 09 07:57:17 mjr: have to be open to some degree Google have an open license on the stack Jan 09 07:57:27 Linux_Galore, no they don't, Jan 09 07:57:57 the Android site pretty much actively advertises that since the use the Apache license actual products can be as closed as hell as they like Jan 09 07:59:17 (site being of course the openhandsetcabal) Jan 09 07:59:18 but they haven't even applied the Apache license yet Jan 09 07:59:25 oh yeah, and there's that Jan 09 07:59:29 mjr: the phone or the software ? Jan 09 07:59:37 Linux_Galore, both Jan 09 07:59:50 'course, kernel excepted, but they can still tivoize it Jan 09 08:00:04 mjr: not technically released yet Jan 09 08:00:54 whatever, point is, "it's Android" doesn't say shit about if it's open or not Jan 09 08:01:19 mjr: well the wiki says it will be released under the Apache 2 license Jan 09 08:01:51 Linux_Galore, how is this difficult for you? They can make a proprietary product based on apache 2 l code. Jan 09 08:02:10 I did notice though that it dint mention if all or just part of the stack will be open source Jan 09 08:02:12 and that's what the openhandsetcabal actively advertises as their advantage Jan 09 08:02:42 yeah, there's also that matter about the completeness. Somewhere there was a note that "_most_" of the code was intended to be released under a2l Jan 09 08:02:51 it was the current license text, I believe Jan 09 08:03:08 mjr: also Android has patent hooks Jan 09 08:03:57 although these days having patents on a project is more about protecting it from the likes of Microsoft and Apple Jan 09 08:04:20 strange how Patents have gone from innovation to protection Jan 09 08:04:35 not so much Jan 09 08:04:43 in retrospect, was to be expected Jan 09 08:05:36 'course, probably not very easily anticipatable Jan 09 08:05:40 (I made up a word) Jan 09 08:06:23 mjr: because anticipated means the same thing Jan 09 08:07:51 interesting times ahead Jan 09 08:14:45 even Yahoo is getting into the mobile platform game now http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8038163364.html Jan 09 08:15:01 Yahoo should be renamed "Me Too" Jan 09 08:16:01 heh Jan 09 08:17:33 Linux_Galore: re patents, except they will just say "hi there, you're infringing on these 50 patents we have, so how about you just give us your one and call it a deal?" Jan 09 08:17:46 * nox-Hand stabs powerpoint 2007 Jan 09 08:19:28 the only way to get any real gain out of a patent is in fact to not do anything with it... hence the rise of companies whose only purpose is to own patents and make money from selling them or suing with them Jan 09 08:19:47 that sucks Jan 09 08:20:02 ah yes ZTE is the other player releasing a 3G phone (actually a few) this year, in this case they are using QTopia as the UI Jan 09 08:21:44 bluelightning: there is a company here in Sydney founded by a teacher who looks at new products and then thinks of how to improve them and then patents the idea, apparently they have an office in the city and they never do interviews or talk to the media but earn millions for licensing Jan 09 08:22:12 balrog-kun, the USB code in qemu-neo1973 is to mimic a USB host? Jan 09 08:22:53 Linux_Galore: that's borderline, at least they are doing some actual innovation... the real evil ones just buy their "IP" instead of inventing it Jan 09 08:23:28 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6280428662.html Jan 09 08:23:55 mbuf: well, there are USB hosts and USB slaves in the code Jan 09 08:23:56 and more Jan 09 08:24:06 bluelightning: yeah, heard about law firms buying questionable IP and then suing people, most pay up rather than pay the high legal fees Jan 09 08:24:36 indeed, which is exactly what they are counting on Jan 09 08:25:34 bluelightning: the laugh it its good business practice to do so, ie pay $100k for a license or $400k in legal fees Jan 09 08:25:35 but a small firm in that position has little choice really Jan 09 08:25:45 yeah exactly Jan 09 08:26:00 morning Jan 09 08:26:02 is its* Jan 09 08:26:39 so of course the entire system really benefits large wealthy corporations instead of the "lone inventor" that many assume the patent system is there to protect Jan 09 08:26:53 bluelightning: just look at the IBM/SCO thing, thats lasted years and still hasnt been finalised Jan 09 08:27:31 yep... and they didn't even have a straight story let alone any evidence as to what had been "stolen" Jan 09 08:28:33 they knew something had been stolen but they weren't sure what :) Jan 09 08:29:17 yes and Novell never gave the IP to SCO in the first place lol, and they (Novell) have yet to be paid the license fees that SCO owe them for selling their IP to third parties Jan 09 08:29:51 mbuf: btw. have you managed to get the qemu-neo1973 tree to compile over that audio.d error? Jan 09 08:30:31 will the NEO be running pulse audio ? Jan 09 08:31:52 some interesting (anti-)patent stuff here: http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp Jan 09 08:34:17 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5721117680.html Jan 09 08:40:37 nice podcaste on patents and copyright in IT http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/current/audioonly/ssw_20071229.mp3 Jan 09 08:43:08 ABC science is a nice podcast in general, some very great science articles http://www.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/feeds/science.xml Jan 09 08:43:26 s/great/nice/ Jan 09 08:43:26 Linux_Galore meant: ABC science is a nice podcast in general, some very nice science articles http://www.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/feeds/science.xml Jan 09 09:03:01 Hi. Do you know, when will phone with EDGE support and numerical keyboard availible? Jan 09 09:04:40 *be Jan 09 09:05:51 if we don't know when gta02 will be available, how should be know about possible future models? Jan 09 09:09:23 But, I have read, that FreeRunner will be presented 7.1.2008, and now is 9.1.2008 Jan 09 09:10:59 err gta02 == FreeRunner, no ? Jan 09 09:11:01 And what is known about furter models? Jan 09 09:11:25 balrog-kun, i used the svn code and it builds fine; but, i hit bug1102 Jan 09 09:11:31 Aeteroth: Not much known yet Jan 09 09:11:48 * CM guesses OM wants GTA02 out and selling first Jan 09 09:12:43 balrog-kun, so the host OS sees qemu as a USB slave? Jan 09 09:12:55 *USB device Jan 09 09:13:56 May be, better try to find A780 or A1200e? Jan 09 09:15:53 or try to flash my nokia n73 (symbian 9 is terrible) Jan 09 09:17:48 Aeteroth: 7.1.2008 would be the CES-show-thingy Jan 09 09:17:57 http://www.engadget.com/tag/openmoko/ Jan 09 09:21:04 zash, i would like to see a different outer casing for gta02; when it is in the market Jan 09 09:22:08 And, is information, that OpenMoko is not ready for end-user yet actual? Jan 09 09:22:32 Aeteroth, yes it was presented, it is not yet available for purchase however Jan 09 09:22:38 Aeteroth, it is correct Jan 09 09:24:48 Is working web browser, irc client, jabber clients availaible now? Jan 09 09:25:02 *fo OM Jan 09 09:25:26 *for Jan 09 09:26:42 well, there is a working xterm-ish app afaik Jan 09 09:26:53 irssi works fine Jan 09 09:27:12 And the browser was so-so last time I tried, but that was 3 weeks ago Jan 09 09:27:20 so l{y,i}nks, irssi, centericq etc should work fine Jan 09 09:27:24 terminal yes, web browser, yes (at least somewhat working, I haven't used it much), irc/IM, well, not particularly adapted for openmoko but you can certainly run some Jan 09 09:27:34 And linx? Jan 09 09:28:13 *y Jan 09 09:28:24 Aeteroth: Most normal linx apps work just fine Jan 09 09:28:32 :) Jan 09 09:36:58 May be, Qtopia will be better solution for me: I usually don't need to answer incoming calls, i need only browser, irc, jabber and icq clients, with fast input method Jan 09 09:38:28 mbuf: yes, it can but that needs to be configured first Jan 09 09:38:45 balrog-kun, i see Jan 09 09:39:02 it needs the kernel driver to emulate a usb host Jan 09 09:39:47 balrog-kun, when using the Neo as a device, which acts as host/device? and what is the status of the host OS? Jan 09 09:40:19 mbuf, by default neo is gadget, switchable to host Jan 09 09:40:24 if that's what you ask Jan 09 09:40:29 Bill Gates retires video (funny) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1199828580 Jan 09 09:40:39 right, the Neo (qemu) can be both Jan 09 09:41:04 ('course there's also the internal always-host usb behind which is the bt interface Jan 09 09:41:24 Linux can emulate a USB host to which qemu can connect as a gadget/slave Jan 09 09:41:52 balrog-kun, so the usb code in qemu when using the Neo provides the Neo to interact with the host OS as a gadget/slave? Jan 09 09:42:07 mbuf: yes Jan 09 09:42:35 among other things Jan 09 09:42:39 balrog-kun, so which code handles the USB interaction of the host OS with qemu? Jan 09 09:43:03 mbuf: you mean which source file? Jan 09 09:43:07 balrog-kun, yes Jan 09 09:43:34 usb-linux-gadget.c, usb-gadget.c and a couple of files in hw/ Jan 09 09:43:44 s/usb-gadgte/usb-linux/ Jan 09 09:45:17 balrog-kun, in the svn code, I don't find any usb-linux files; only usb-ohci.c, usb-uhci.c, usb-msd.c, usb-net.c, usb.c, usb.h, usb-hub.c, usb-hid.c Jan 09 09:50:40 balrog-kun, other than the sources, is there any documentation on the overview/architecture design of qemu? Jan 09 09:53:24 mbuf: you're looking in hw/ now, usb-linux*.c are in the main dir Jan 09 09:53:28 mbuf: not that i'm aware of Jan 09 09:53:37 balrog-kun, ok Jan 09 09:53:58 except qemu-tech.texi obviously Jan 09 09:54:21 balrog-kun, i'll go through the sources; if in doubt, will ask Jan 09 09:54:30 okies Jan 09 09:55:00 balrog-kun, thanks for your help Jan 09 09:55:24 mbuf: are you going to be implementing something cool? Jan 09 09:56:01 balrog-kun, not sure; just getting to learn through qemu; helps lot without hardware Jan 09 09:56:12 balrog-kun, do you have anything specific in mind? Jan 09 09:56:28 oh okay Jan 09 09:56:33 no, was just curious :) Jan 09 09:57:01 balrog-kun, the sources need to be organized neatly under specific folders; right now it looks disorganized? Jan 09 09:57:10 balrog-kun, atleast for readability Jan 09 09:57:25 balrog-kun, openUSB is interesting to look at Jan 09 09:57:53 there are a number of directories already, imho it's organised ok Jan 09 09:59:37 balrog-kun, ok Jan 09 10:42:55 openmoko: 03chris * r3792 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c): Jan 09 10:42:55 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (on_network_registered), Jan 09 10:42:55 openmoko: (sms_msghandler): Jan 09 10:42:55 openmoko: Add support for reading delivery status reports from the SIM card Jan 09 11:07:59 hmm glamo patches don't aply corectly so i can't compile linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3790-r10 Jan 09 11:10:48 hmm glamo patches don't aply corectly so i can't compile linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3790-r10 Jan 09 11:47:27 openmoko: 03sameo * r3793 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-ng/115-s3cmci_sdio.patch: ar6k-ng: Forgot to add the mci patch. Jan 09 12:26:46 where is d3reg set? Jan 09 12:27:01 is it hard- or software? Jan 09 12:28:16 guessing its a hardware thing, but dont know for sure Jan 09 12:31:40 what is gta01_pcf_pdata.rails[PCF50606_REGULATOR_D3REG]? Jan 09 12:45:59 wow... "cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/voltage_d3reg" :-) Jan 09 13:10:40 u-boot sets d3reg, right? Jan 09 13:11:20 It should set all the power rails Jan 09 13:11:35 I think the jumpstart or whatever it's called may setup sane values Jan 09 13:11:41 err Jan 09 13:11:48 ifgnore that, no it won't Jan 09 13:12:03 const u_int8_t pcf50606_initial_regs[__NUM_PCF50606_REGS] = { Jan 09 13:12:17 [PCF50606_REG_D3REGC1] = 0xec, /* STBY_1V8: 2.1V */ Jan 09 13:12:53 yes, I noticed that - there is a bug on that subject Jan 09 13:13:01 it's also 1.8V in the datasheet Jan 09 13:13:09 that's the standby power supply rail Jan 09 13:13:18 hmm Jan 09 13:13:19 yes Jan 09 13:13:28 can you fix this? Jan 09 13:13:54 then we can close #806 Jan 09 13:13:57 I submitted it as a bug, as while I could, I was assuming there must have been some rationale in setting it in the first place Jan 09 13:13:58 my neo i hot even when suspended , connected to my pc Jan 09 13:14:04 any ideas? Jan 09 13:14:16 NineX: how hot? Jan 09 13:14:52 RedDog: 2.1V will not damage anything, it will just make suspend take a hair more power. Jan 09 13:15:02 NineX: and what do you mean by syspended? Jan 09 13:15:03 SpeedEvil: like when i played wesonth and cpu was 100%loaded Jan 09 13:15:14 SpeedEvil: suspended via suspend to ram Jan 09 13:15:23 NineX: that doesn't save much power Jan 09 13:15:28 SpeedEvil: yes, and i want to save power! ;-) Jan 09 13:16:14 SpeedEvil: why? cpu sholud be stopped when system is suspended, or work in very slow mode Jan 09 13:16:40 NineX: briefly - as I understand it, only the CPU is turned off Jan 09 13:16:50 All the peripherals stay awake Jan 09 13:17:00 or ratehr, the CPU to the clock is off. Jan 09 13:17:20 SpeedEvil: ok so what peripheral generating heat ? Jan 09 13:17:36 It's probably not suspending propoerly Jan 09 13:18:22 NineX: if it's actually getting hot, something's wrong. Jan 09 13:20:04 RedDog: if I had schematics, I wouldn't hesitate on putting it to 1.8 - and probably Vio to 3.05V - but I don't. I don't know exactly what might be connected to that supply in addition to the CPU suspend power pin, and what its limits are Jan 09 13:21:31 SpeedEvil: ok, that makes sens ... Jan 09 13:21:57 btw, where are these schematics? Jan 09 13:22:09 Secret. Jan 09 13:22:22 Open! Jan 09 13:22:52 !?!? Jan 09 13:23:08 I mean, they are secret, not that I'm not telling you. Jan 09 13:23:34 (and I don't have them) Jan 09 13:23:46 (/me accepts unsolicited DCCs) Jan 09 13:23:53 i know ... but it's a shame! Jan 09 13:24:09 * XorA|gone chuckles at SpeedEvil Jan 09 13:24:59 anybody knows why they aren't open? Jan 09 13:25:23 chip manufacturers with bugs to hide Jan 09 13:25:29 no Jan 09 13:25:29 otherwise known as an NDA Jan 09 13:25:54 schematics aren't typically NDAd, as they are not directly produced by manufacturers Jan 09 13:26:15 you get a 'connect pin 12 to a foo' list, and draw your own PCB Jan 09 13:26:16 * Mononoke sends virusfile absolute_safe_secret_specs.pdf.bin to SpeedEvil trough ddc Jan 09 13:26:50 s/ddc/dcc Jan 09 13:26:58 ddc works too. Jan 09 13:27:03 If you can own my monitor. Jan 09 13:27:12 this looks interesting blurb about the new gps chip in freerunner..... the field test pdf thing http://www.u-blox.com/technology/supersense.html Jan 09 13:27:25 ok, who can answear this question? Jan 09 13:27:32 what question? Jan 09 13:27:49 why they aren't open.. Jan 09 13:28:21 MichaelSchiloh Jan 09 13:28:25 A) the design was not intended to be opened, so the appropriate rights were not obtained Jan 09 13:28:44 B) Concerns about someone taking the schematic and building a phone. Jan 09 13:28:58 SpeedEvil: I doubt B is a concern :-) Jan 09 13:29:20 I would. Jan 09 13:29:28 Though I'd be using it more as a base. Jan 09 13:29:37 all the nokia phone schematics are already on the internet Jan 09 13:29:43 orly Jan 09 13:29:47 and the n770 n800 ones as well Jan 09 13:29:52 3310? Jan 09 13:30:08 XorA|gone: released by nokia? Jan 09 13:30:24 SpeedEvil: scans of the official repair manuals, "obtained" from repair shops Jan 09 13:30:56 They have full circuit diagrams? Jan 09 13:31:02 I'm really surprised. Jan 09 13:31:07 SpeedEvil: what I looked at looked pretty complete Jan 09 13:31:22 since computer crash I no longer have the link Jan 09 13:31:24 see, will OM have official repair manuals to scan? Jan 09 13:31:26 neo1973 is a OPEN phone without schematic? Jan 09 13:31:47 RedDog: the hardware is fully documented from a software perspective. Jan 09 13:31:51 (or that's the idea) Jan 09 13:32:08 you do not need a schematic to have full access too the capability of the hardware Jan 09 13:32:36 SpeedEvil: then take me to the document wich shows me what is connected to d3reg .... Jan 09 13:33:07 RedDog: It should be on the wiki - there is a list on the PM page Jan 09 13:33:17 the question is - is it accurate. Jan 09 13:33:33 find out who checked in the 2.1V and ping htem Jan 09 13:33:50 you mean http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#STBY_1V8 ? Jan 09 13:34:16 yes Jan 09 13:34:45 From memory, it's only 100uA or so - going from 2.1-1.8 may save 20uA at most. Jan 09 13:35:44 Or .05% of battery per day saving in suspend mode Jan 09 13:41:45 SpeedEvil: as i can see as it was first activated it was set to ec ... Jan 09 13:42:57 it was LaF0rge ... Jan 09 13:44:18 roh: ping Jan 09 13:45:35 roh: is there anything connected to the STBY_1V8 in the GTA01v4 other than the CPU - any reason for it to be 2.1, not 1.8? Jan 09 13:53:21 openmoko: 03chris * r3794 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog data/org.openmoko.Dialer.service.in): Correct dbus service name Jan 09 13:56:07 any ideas about frequency scaling? Jan 09 13:56:45 someones got preliminary drivers, but I'm blanking on the name Jan 09 13:57:47 cesarb Jan 09 13:58:01 SpeedEvil: I've put up my current work online at http://repo.or.cz/w/linux-2.6/s3c2410-cpufreq.git (branch s3c2410-cpufreq) Jan 09 14:01:23 SpeedEvil: thanks ;-) Jan 09 14:03:50 the other part of that - cpuvolt - basically can't do it. Jan 09 14:04:34 Or at least not to full advantage on current hardware Jan 09 14:04:56 as it can only go to 2.1 and 1.8v Jan 09 14:06:00 SpeedEvil: 0.3V are a great differnce for a cpu, isn't it? Jan 09 14:06:12 yes Jan 09 14:06:22 like 10% Jan 09 14:08:42 will neo1973 ever come out? Jan 09 14:09:06 i is already Jan 09 14:09:14 .. the end version Jan 09 14:09:18 not dev Jan 09 14:09:23 Bish: at the same time as E17 and Duke Nukem Forever Jan 09 14:09:37 dont understand your irony -_- Jan 09 14:10:06 belive me, it's there Jan 09 14:10:21 you only have to declock it first Jan 09 14:10:28 N-Mi: and it will sync perfectly to windows 7 Jan 09 14:10:34 bish you have a flux capacitator right? Jan 09 14:10:38 if you mean the software, there isn't going to be any kind of 'end verion' Jan 09 14:10:41 and Mac OS X11 Jan 09 14:10:54 -_- Jan 09 14:11:01 bkruse, flux capacitor :D Jan 09 14:11:34 ok guys, when will gta02 come out? Jan 09 14:11:41 see topic Jan 09 14:11:42 see the topic Jan 09 14:12:03 pff.. Jan 09 14:12:05 o/ (there) Jan 09 14:12:06 look at the topic Jan 09 14:12:39 yeah ive been told N-Mi Jan 09 14:15:18 * I-MOD crosses his fingers for 2 march Jan 09 14:16:34 uff i think it will never come out xD .. u guy are developing.. and developing but nothin happens :P Jan 09 14:16:39 * tsuramoto crosses his toes for 2nd of march, so my fingers are still able to type Jan 09 14:17:01 Bish: go check the wiki progress is being made Jan 09 14:17:06 and you are being rude Jan 09 14:17:30 it's hardware porblems Jan 09 14:17:34 has there been some news about the various versions of efl (evas, ecore) etc which openmoko plans to use? Jan 09 14:17:38 and too small dev budget basicallty Jan 09 14:18:34 SpeedEvil: am i allowed to ask, what kind of hardware problems? Jan 09 14:20:24 power managment. Jan 09 14:20:51 so openmoko has dropped GTK+/GNOME altogether? Jan 09 14:20:54 they are doing development of accel drivers and wifi, to make sure those subsystems don't have bugs, before starting another PCB revision. Jan 09 14:21:35 hardware bugs Jan 09 14:21:50 oO they wont use qt .. do they? loufoque Jan 09 14:21:59 SpeedEvil: i see, thanks Jan 09 14:23:03 Qtopia ? =] Jan 09 14:23:15 .. o god no , i love gtk Jan 09 14:23:24 Bish: it was a question Jan 09 14:23:32 phew Jan 09 14:23:34 I don't know Jan 09 14:23:49 but it seems they want to use enlightenment Jan 09 14:23:59 haha no /o' Jan 09 14:24:18 well at least the enlightenment foundation libraries Jan 09 14:24:24 well, i would think so since Raster works at openmoko inc :-) Jan 09 14:24:26 at least the gtk interface feels very slow, is there room for improvements? Jan 09 14:24:26 SpeedEvil: what about PM in gta v1, are there hardware issues? Jan 09 14:26:08 gta v2 has hardware accelerated graphics Jan 09 14:26:21 ok, but I got a GTA01 :-) Jan 09 14:27:09 ... and I'm trying to decide what's the best way to go to make a usable phone out of it. at the moment, QT feels a lot snappier Jan 09 14:28:04 ... but I'd like to go with openmoko over QT if it is possible to have openmoko reacting with similar speed to my input as QT does Jan 09 14:29:01 XXLT: no un-work-roundable ones Jan 09 14:29:19 will compiz fusion run on gta02? Jan 09 14:29:25 im just kidding.. Jan 09 14:29:36 Bish: of course Jan 09 14:29:42 and directx10 games too. Jan 09 14:29:48 like hl²? Jan 09 14:29:53 or starcraft? Jan 09 14:30:23 starcraft might actually run Jan 09 14:31:00 :) Jan 09 14:31:24 once they've written the OpenGL driver Jan 09 14:31:32 doom should work too, I have it on my Iriver (which is less powerfull) with Rockbox firmware Jan 09 14:32:36 loufoque, i read off the wiki that the smedia chip they plan to use has no opengl/gles driver. Jan 09 14:34:36 shres: no, but they have the full specs, they can write one. Jan 09 14:35:31 starcraft was made to work on 75Mhz i386, no? Jan 09 14:35:57 * I-MOD wonders if it would still work with such a significant simulation layer Jan 09 14:36:02 loufoque, ah, true. Jan 09 14:36:05 one of the developers talked about a manyear of development effort for the glamo-opengles-capable driver Jan 09 14:36:25 s/sim/em/ Jan 09 14:36:43 toxx_, there's a lot of room for improvements in gtk+ Jan 09 14:37:05 like every piece of software.. Jan 09 14:37:26 teprrr: can you elaborate a bit ? Jan 09 14:37:42 thomasg: and you think a man year is a lot? Jan 09 14:38:07 I think a man year is a man year :) Jan 09 14:38:44 depends how many developers openmoko has Jan 09 14:38:58 well see. there are not that much developers in the opensource world that can AND want write that driver - and in the openmoko project there are other priorities at moment I heard. Jan 09 14:39:07 thseiler, it's slow? Jan 09 14:39:59 teprrr: :-) i meant which part of it makes it so slow... Where should effort be spent first? Jan 09 14:40:25 thseiler, sorry, don't know about the specifics.. I mostly don't use any gtk+ apps :P Jan 09 14:40:46 thseiler, but ask toxx_, he said the UI feels slow Jan 09 14:41:35 yes, I think if you compare it QT it does. Jan 09 14:41:49 on the openmoko. I'm not talking about desktop QT vs. GTK. Jan 09 14:42:04 could the reason be that GTK runs on top of X whereas QT runs directly on the framebuffer? Jan 09 14:42:19 no Jan 09 14:42:22 X is plenty fast Jan 09 14:42:37 X isn't the slow bit Jan 09 14:42:48 how big is the size of X? Jan 09 14:42:53 mem foot print? Jan 09 14:43:08 so if it isn't X, what is it, then? Jan 09 14:43:15 1171 root 18 -1 9848 4092 1652 S 0.0 3.2 39:19.71 Xfbdev Jan 09 14:43:18 i also think the problem is not X. while hacking on the matchbox-keyboard, X felt very responsive Jan 09 14:43:37 nice :) Jan 09 14:43:42 The problem is that nobody at all has been wotking on speed Jan 09 14:43:46 pretty much Jan 09 14:44:08 when your SMS program can't actually send SMSs is not the time for optimisation Jan 09 14:44:26 speed can increase after bugficing and even after distributing ... Jan 09 14:45:04 ok, thanks for the answer. I also agree that the matchbox keyboard is one of the faster thinks in openmoko :-) I can also understand that now is not the time for optimizations. stll: do you think the reason is in non-optimized GTK code or the openmoko apps themselves? Jan 09 14:45:11 *bugfixing Jan 09 14:49:08 does openmoko use the upstream gtk or does it use some of the speedup patches which the maemo guys came up with? Jan 09 15:04:29 shres, afaik, upstream... Jan 09 15:08:10 np:All Shall Perish - Eradication Jan 09 16:16:04 openmoko: 03chris * r3797 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog data/org.openmoko.OpenmokoMessages2.service.in): Jan 09 16:16:04 openmoko: * data/org.openmoko.OpenmokoMessages2.service.in: Jan 09 16:16:04 openmoko: Correct service name Jan 09 16:58:30 Howdy... Jan 09 16:58:48 So here i am tryin this on my Fedora 7 box and I keep gettin: Jan 09 16:58:52 ERROR: No providers of build target u-boot-openmoko (for []) Jan 09 16:59:04 During make openmoko-devel-image Jan 09 16:59:09 any suggestions? Jan 09 17:01:25 ravenhair, did you make update-makefile? Jan 09 17:01:32 and make update?... Jan 09 17:08:17 no, it's a new build, but i'll try it. Jan 09 17:09:38 thanks Jan 09 17:14:52 ravenhair, it seems that uboot-openmoko has been renamed to u-boot-openmoko Jan 09 17:23:31 the update seems to have updated some things. Jan 09 17:24:12 and I get the smae error. Jan 09 17:24:54 trying the "Build issues" suggestions on the wiki. Jan 09 17:30:04 ravenhair: is that the first error you get, or is there a previous failure in building the openmoko-devel-image target? Jan 09 17:30:34 The current MokoMakefile should handle both the uboot-openmoko and the u-boot-openmoko variants of u-boot Jan 09 17:30:56 that's the last one i see, I'll take a look for others. Jan 09 17:31:19 make clean-package-u-boot-openmoko also fails with: Jan 09 17:31:26 ERROR: No providers of build target u-boot-openmoko (for []) Jan 09 17:31:26 make: *** [clean-package-u-boot-openmoko] Error 1 Jan 09 17:31:53 You could also try ". ./setup.env ; cd build ; bitbake openmoko-devel-image" to build just the image, and then do u-boot later Jan 09 17:32:18 if someone having a laugh? Jan 09 17:32:25 s/if/si/ Jan 09 17:32:26 ScaredyCat meant: si someone having a laugh? Jan 09 17:32:34 s/si/is/ Jan 09 17:32:38 " Please install following missing utilities: GNU Fortran Compiler" Jan 09 17:32:45 there are earlier error's. Jan 09 17:33:16 NOTE: package qemu-native-0.9.0+cvs20070613-r5: task do_configure: started Jan 09 17:33:16 ERROR: function do_configure failed Jan 09 17:33:16 ERROR: log data follows (/home/mluich/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/qemu-native Jan 09 17:33:16 -0.9.0+cvs20070613-r5/temp/log.do_configure.7165) Jan 09 17:33:37 BTW, "u-boot-openmoko" is the new name (e.g. "make update-bleeding-edge"), and "uboot-openmoko" is the old one Jan 09 17:35:06 ScaredyCat: the toolchain issue that "requires" gfortran and a specific (non-common) library has raised its head once again in OE. This time, someone "fixed" it by adding a check to the sanity checker to make sure you have gfortran installed (which doesn't sove the real problem anyway). Jan 09 17:36:00 * mwester is quite certain that next month, we'll all be installing COBOL on our build machines so that we can use OE. Jan 09 17:36:09 roflmao Jan 09 17:36:11 I appear to be missing gcc 3.x !?!?! Jan 09 17:37:07 ravenhair: usually you have to install something like "gcc_compat" or "compat-gcc" on the host to get that old a gcc compiler. Jan 09 17:37:23 gcc version 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27) Jan 09 17:37:32 nodding, Jan 09 17:38:03 Unless you are really attached to locales, or you are intent upon using qemu, just add the following to your local.conf file: Jan 09 17:38:05 ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" Jan 09 17:38:31 yeah, that'll save a few hours of waiting too Jan 09 17:38:35 I'm hoping to do qemu, and install gcc 3.x is not a problem for me. Jan 09 17:39:03 Thanks all. Jan 09 17:44:00 * ScaredyCat installs a load of fortran bollocks Jan 09 18:20:53 yum install compat-gcc-34-c++ Jan 09 18:20:58 and it's past qemu. Jan 09 18:24:44 woh Jan 09 18:24:49 lokpest: ala the band? Jan 09 18:25:52 LarstiQ: yes, my nick is taken from the LOK song lokpest :-) Jan 09 18:26:11 or "song" mabye wasnt the best description Jan 09 18:26:41 heh :) Jan 09 18:26:54 * LarstiQ listened to some songs by LOK years ago, but has lost all traces of them :/ Jan 09 18:27:15 lokpest: not that I could understand any of the lyrics, but it sounded cool to my ear back then :) Jan 09 18:27:28 :-) Jan 09 18:30:15 lokpest: weee, last.fm knows about them, thanks for reminding me :) Jan 09 18:30:48 np, at your service :-) Jan 09 18:35:04 hi all Jan 09 18:35:08 ping mickey|dinner Jan 09 18:37:17 glamo-report-vram-size-to-userspace.patch is slightly fucjed up Jan 09 18:38:08 http://pastebin.ca/848406 Jan 09 18:39:05 /linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3790-r10 Jan 09 18:58:03 I-MOD: yes, flux capacitor Jan 09 19:00:28 i know Jan 09 19:11:21 why is the topic encouraging beer sales now? Has Openmoko branched out into breweries as well? Jan 09 19:12:22 I mean, it's an interesting concept: "Software for your phone *AND* your brewery!" Jan 09 19:12:37 mwester, they are going to sponsor free beer for community developers; new initiative Jan 09 19:12:41 breweries need phones too Jan 09 19:13:06 Or maybe the developers need breweries? Jan 09 19:13:27 everyone needs breweries Jan 09 19:13:44 mwester, they are going to call it "Bud-Wiser" Jan 09 19:14:08 * mjr doesn't need breweries Jan 09 19:14:19 openmoko: 03laforge * r3798 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (4 files): remove three patches that have been merged mainline Jan 09 19:14:19 (of course, you could travel to Denver, where you'll find that all the developers ride bicycles to work, climb mountains, and drink nothing but bottled water) Jan 09 19:15:26 http://www.freebeer.org/ Jan 09 19:15:27 so neo ocmes with free http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Beer_Project now? Jan 09 19:16:01 mwester, I brew my own beer for much the same reason I like Free Software - and as soon as I have my Neo I WILL be installing Brewing software - of working on installing it if it fails. :) Jan 09 19:18:07 mmmm, beer. Jan 09 19:18:26 also, medication ends today, I can drink again \o/ Jan 09 19:20:08 * buz stocks the fridge :P Jan 09 19:25:31 kdean06: No neo yet? Jan 09 19:25:46 wurp2, I've got a UPS tracking numnber now and I'll have it on Monday. Jan 09 19:25:51 Anyone see Jadefalcon? Jan 09 19:26:33 kdean06: Excellent. I thought you had been talking about it for more than a week - maybe time is just stretched out for me because my neo is shipped off to San Francisco for the gsm update :-) Jan 09 19:26:58 I HAVE been talking baout it for a week. FIC was horrifically slow processing my order. :( Jan 09 19:27:04 :-( Jan 09 19:27:15 Took then almost a week - I only got my tracking number yesterday. Jan 09 19:27:32 It took from Friday evening when I ordered until (I think) Tuesday before they sent mine off Jan 09 19:27:47 but I still got it within 7-8 days, total Jan 09 19:27:59 I'm contented in the belief that they can't spare someone to pack it up and ship it because they're too busy hacking... As long as I can hold onto that, I can cope and not be angry. :P Jan 09 19:28:01 yowsa Jan 09 19:28:04 :-) Jan 09 19:28:46 kdean06: the reality is that mokotime is only loosely correlated to real time. Jan 09 19:29:07 JohnMahowald, you going to be @ FUDCon? Jan 09 19:29:22 mwester, hey now.. i also drink beer Jan 09 19:29:41 mwester, Much like American Football, then? :) Jan 09 19:30:19 Once in a while, the mokodimension moves into alignment with our reality, and information and goods travel between the two planes of existence, then they drift apart once again... Jan 09 19:31:34 mwester, sadly, we are loosing the flying dog brewery :-/ Jan 09 19:31:42 Does everyone else end up writing a bunch of little scripts to do all the multistep and/or weird pathname crap that you have to do to use GTA01 functionality in openmoko? Jan 09 19:32:12 I have all these little scripts to turn on/off bluetooth, gps, etc, to start up the gps stack & shut it down Jan 09 19:32:20 That seem as if they belong in the release Jan 09 19:33:01 or at least in a little utility ipkg Jan 09 19:33:01 * mwester holds down the power button until a nice menu pops up that lets him do those things with a press of his finger. Jan 09 19:33:17 Well, that works for the hardware Jan 09 19:33:36 except that as far as I can tell, the menu lies to me about whether those things are actually on or not Jan 09 19:34:09 I'm pretty sure that multiple times I've turned on gps or turned off bluetooth, then the menu says they're in the other state Jan 09 19:34:18 So I didn't so much trust the menu Jan 09 19:34:38 wurp2: Yeah, I have scripts & stuff for forcing fast charge, restarting X, changing ALSA settings, etc. Jan 09 19:34:41 Plus, it interrupts my concentration to switch from command line to power button menu Jan 09 19:35:03 quicksand: I didn't see how to force fast charge Jan 09 19:35:12 Other than with uboot menu Jan 09 19:35:34 echo -n "fast_cccv" > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode Jan 09 19:36:35 Thanks! Jan 09 19:37:00 [much easier to type "charge" than all that!] Jan 09 19:37:14 I also made a .desktop entry for it. Jan 09 19:37:15 no kiddink Jan 09 19:37:27 I need to figure out how to do that, too :-) Jan 09 19:37:28 I can't find any info about 3g on the wiki so I assume they don't have 3g or have they? Jan 09 19:37:34 no 3g Jan 09 19:37:36 2.5g Jan 09 19:38:11 gprs :/ Jan 09 19:38:42 okay Jan 09 19:38:43 Is there some way to learn about all the /sys/devices files? Jan 09 19:39:03 Besides reading all the code? Jan 09 19:39:15 What you said. :-/ Jan 09 19:39:32 il buy it anyway but too bad there weren't any Jan 09 19:41:11 PP|Spydon: yep :-( Jan 09 19:41:37 maybe someone will make a hack Jan 09 19:41:59 you can't make a hack without the chip :P Jan 09 19:42:37 buy the chip from somewhere? Jan 09 19:45:36 SpeedEvil: have you found out something new about #806? i had a talk to LaF0rge and he added a comment ;-) Jan 09 19:45:39 maybe maito but I don't think I would be good enough to get it in :P Jan 09 19:47:58 mount it on the back cover? Jan 09 19:49:32 On the back cover with a battery pack, usb hub, wifi dongle, and maybe a flashlight and laser for good measure. Jan 09 19:50:54 Now, now. Jan 09 19:51:06 You could just glue on the existing flashlight and laser that comes with the neo Jan 09 19:51:27 I actually have a powered usb hub with a battery pack rigged up at home Jan 09 19:51:48 I used it for my GP2X and haven't tried it with the neo, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't work Jan 09 19:52:21 http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/WirelessUSBTutorial Jan 09 19:52:39 openmoko: 03werner * r3799 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-acc.patch series): (log message trimmed) Jan 09 19:52:39 openmoko: Willie's SPI fixes for the accelerometers. This is the original patch, with a Jan 09 19:52:39 openmoko: number of bugs. I'll follow it up with corrections. The reason for splitting it Jan 09 19:52:39 openmoko: is to make it easier to show and discuss the changes. Jan 09 19:52:39 openmoko: gta02-acc.patch: Jan 09 19:52:43 openmoko: - arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/mach-gta02.c (gta02_devices): removed s3c_device_spi0 Jan 09 19:52:45 openmoko: and s3c_device_spi1, and replaced them with explicitly registered Jan 09 19:55:11 I'm just imagining trying to get such a rig onto an airplane! Jan 09 19:55:28 Oh yeah, they'd just shoot you to save time Jan 09 19:56:47 I never tried to fly with it. In fact, once I got it up, it was pretty pointless... data entry using only a joystick & 4 buttons is not ideal, and I wasn't willing to carry around a usb keyboard too. Jan 09 19:56:58 It was more for the fun of putting it together than any practical use Jan 09 20:06:17 anyone have any idea why i'm getting this error when running "make openmoko-devel-image" with the MokoMakefile? Jan 09 20:06:17 http://openmoko.pastebin.com/m48867d1 Jan 09 20:06:17 i've tried starting from scratch with no luck. Jan 09 20:13:42 openmoko: 03werner * r3800 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-acc.patch: (log message trimmed) Jan 09 20:13:42 openmoko: Cleanup and big fixes for the accelerometer driver. Note that it still hangs Jan 09 20:13:42 openmoko: the system with what seems to be a permanently asserted interrupt. So don't Jan 09 20:13:42 openmoko: enable it yet. Jan 09 20:13:42 openmoko: gta02-acc.patch: Jan 09 20:13:44 openmoko: - arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/mach-gta02.c (gta02_spi_acc_set_cs): chip select is now Jan 09 20:13:48 openmoko: handled by spi_acc_cs, removed Jan 09 20:24:48 doughnut42: Sorry, I got nothin'. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will wander by. Jan 09 20:25:06 quicksand: thanks Jan 09 20:25:20 Of all the errors I have seen in the last few months (and believe me, it's plenty) yours isn't one of them. Jan 09 20:30:40 doughnut42: if you haven't already, please do 'make update-makefile && make setup && make update' and try again -- and if it still doesn't work after a few hours to a day, there might be something wrong with your setup. Jan 09 20:31:49 Sometimes there are transient problems with the repository. And by 'sometimes,' I mean 'usually.' ;-) Jan 09 20:32:07 quicksand: yeah, could be something wrong. i thought i tried that but still am not able to get a clean build. i thought i was able to get a clean build once, though. maybe it was on a different machine. Jan 09 20:32:16 heh Jan 09 20:52:32 I need GUI program for GPS navigation under openmoko. Which is the best ? :) Jan 09 20:53:07 navit? Jan 09 20:53:31 thx, trying navit ... Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: 03werner * r3801 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (fbset-smedia-glamo.patch series): Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: Final small fix by Dodji. Driver works now. Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: series: Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: - fbset-* patches are now good to go Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: fbset-smedia-glamo.patch: Jan 09 20:54:37 openmoko: - drivers/video/glamo/glamo-fb.c (glamofb_set_par): typo "doens't" Jan 09 20:54:39 openmoko: - drivers/video/glamo/glamo-fb.c (glamofb_set_par): don't recalculate smem_len Jan 09 20:55:46 fast ;d Jan 09 20:56:17 hello univac Jan 09 20:56:44 tsuramoto: hi :) Jan 09 20:57:16 what ya working on? Jan 09 20:57:37 downlaoding kernel tree :) Jan 09 20:57:48 what version? Jan 09 20:58:14 git Jan 09 20:59:17 if I want a realtime kernel, what do I do except for asking google Jan 09 20:59:22 any pointers? Jan 09 22:20:57 greetings Jan 09 22:31:38 op odesan Jan 09 22:32:20 ops Jan 09 22:32:27 ? Jan 09 22:33:20 hi I am trying to get openmoko running in a virtual machine (qemu). I am using the MokoMakefile, but unfortunately "make qemu" fails with this error: http://rafb.net/p/7HtVwS88.html Jan 09 22:33:27 any ideas? Jan 09 22:43:28 Comment of the day seen on /. regarding data centres on cargo ships ...programming in Sea+ Jan 09 22:45:44 hehehe Jan 09 22:46:17 yo Jan 09 23:00:59 openmoko: 03werner * r3802 10/trunk/src/target/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jan 09 23:00:59 openmoko: Updated to latest u-boot upstream and OpenMoko SVN versions, and cleaned Jan 09 23:00:59 openmoko: up the "update" scripts a bit. Jan 09 23:00:59 openmoko: - u-boot/scripts/update, kernel/scripts/update: removed "don't use" header Jan 09 23:00:59 openmoko: - u-boot/scripts/build: updated GIT_HEAD and SVN_REV to latest version Jan 09 23:01:02 openmoko: (80adb2761627ec10eb8997bea6c1e52e34816c6b, 3801) Jan 09 23:01:04 openmoko: - u-boot/scripts/update, kernel/scripts/update: clarified which environment Jan 09 23:02:26 openmoko: 03werner * r3803 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/ (build update): Remove and re-create "build" and "update" to change permissions :-( Jan 09 23:03:21 openmoko: 03werner * r3804 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/ (build update): Jan 09 23:03:21 openmoko: Remove and re-create "build" and "update" to change permissions :-( Jan 09 23:03:21 openmoko: (Make the scripts executable.) Jan 09 23:04:06 openmoko: 03werner * r3805 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/scripts/ (build update): Remove and re-create "build" and "update" to change permissions :-( Jan 09 23:04:29 openmoko: 03werner * r3806 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/scripts/ (build update): Jan 09 23:04:29 openmoko: Remove and re-create "build" and "update" to change permissions :-( Jan 09 23:04:29 openmoko: (Make the scripts executable.) Jan 09 23:27:36 ban RegaL, he's a spammer Jan 09 23:27:50 sie Jan 09 23:27:52 amcık Jan 10 01:13:21 GOVERNOR ROMNEY: "Are we going to stay ahead of the world, are we going to lead the world, or are we going to instead pull up the drawbridge and try to hang on to everything we've got and say we can't compete with the world?" (Ryan J. Halliday, "Romney Defends His Health-Care Plan," Nashua Telegraph, 6/7/07) Jan 10 01:13:27 GOVERNOR ROMNEY: "[W]e face a much tougher competitor or group of competitors coming from Asia than we've ever faced before. Asia is tough. There are a lot of Asians. They are hard working people. And they’re going to give us a run for our money in terms of our economic vitality." (Governor Mitt Romney, Remarks At The Club For Growth, 3/29/07) Jan 10 01:14:42 Hiz! I have a question, I install roofs and uImage in my neo1973 Jan 10 01:15:02 generally a good plan Jan 10 01:15:08 but the sound doesn't work Jan 10 01:15:10 :) Jan 10 01:15:22 I don't install the modules it's necessary? Jan 10 01:15:23 what sound? Jan 10 01:15:37 all the sound of my neo Jan 10 01:15:45 has it ever worked? Jan 10 01:16:26 yes, with an old kernel, but with this kernel not connected to gsm line Jan 10 01:16:43 do touch-sounds work? Jan 10 01:16:48 no Jan 10 01:17:02 what kernel and image did you install? Jan 10 01:17:22 the last kernel and image in OM2 Jan 10 01:17:55 with the old kernels gsmd not connected to my gsm service Jan 10 01:18:20 sorry but my english is very bad, i'm spanish Jan 10 01:18:39 sorry - do you mean that GSM and sound do not work in this version? Jan 10 01:18:44 But they have before? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 10 02:59:57 2008