**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 11 02:59:56 2008 Jan 11 05:21:29 db with a db Jan 11 05:21:52 yeah, it took more than 24 hours but, you know, ... Jan 11 05:21:55 game is game Jan 11 05:22:36 without subsidy- another way of saying without a multi-year contract from a cell company... Jan 11 05:22:55 the juke by samsung is $99.99 Jan 11 05:23:41 MotoRazr v9m : $249 Jan 11 05:23:58 smartphones you say? Jan 11 05:24:21 palm centro - --- $99 Jan 11 05:24:22 holla Jan 11 05:24:54 these cats ahead, you all stay the snail Jan 11 05:25:13 fish is fish Jan 11 05:25:15 dog with a cat Jan 11 05:25:20 fun is fun Jan 11 05:25:33 a pound of potatoes --- $1.99 Jan 11 05:25:35 I move and all you see is the back of my nikes Jan 11 05:25:38 free1: $99 is not unsubsidized Jan 11 05:25:44 a loaf of bread -- $2.39 Jan 11 05:25:57 I type and electrons flow... Jan 11 05:25:59 and at the end of tunnel I'M the light Jan 11 05:26:12 I speak english. Jan 11 05:27:54 my mind smells of excellence, yours reeks of estrogen Jan 11 05:29:23 you have yet to cite any phone that compares specs-wise to the neo, that is unsubsidized Jan 11 05:29:54 check it out you keep speaking of comparing... and mention phones that don't have the GPS Jan 11 05:30:12 but the Neo I saw didn't have a camera in it, ya dig? Jan 11 05:31:12 of the phones you listed, not one, save for the centro is a touchscreen, none(maybe the centro) have wifi Jan 11 05:31:20 and the centro price you listed is subsidized Jan 11 05:32:20 hmm, surf the internet, check email, etc for two hundred some... or , pay 450 to have a touch screen Jan 11 05:32:26 not difficult at all Jan 11 05:32:28 holla Jan 11 05:34:07 you're ignoring the original challenge, which was comparable specifications Jan 11 05:34:13 the only that comes close is the centro Jan 11 05:36:49 no I am not ignoring the original challenge Jan 11 05:37:22 I said that cell phones are now 250 and under w/o a plan/contract Jan 11 05:37:27 this was challenged Jan 11 05:37:45 where are you finding these phones for these prices? Jan 11 05:38:03 for example, http://www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US/adirect/motorola Jan 11 05:38:17 laptopmag.com Jan 11 05:38:23 plain and simple Jan 11 05:38:28 black and white Jan 11 05:39:05 furthermore, I was told that the price of the neo had to do with cdma and gsm Jan 11 05:39:21 for some reason I thought the neo would only be gsm.... Jan 11 05:39:32 that's correct, the neo can only be gsm Jan 11 05:39:36 so I'm not sure how relevant that point was Jan 11 05:39:40 ok. there you go. Jan 11 05:39:41 I'm asking for a specific link Jan 11 05:39:49 I just gave you two Jan 11 05:40:03 what's really good with you, playa? Jan 11 05:40:19 neither of those sites link to a place where I can buy a centro, unsubsidized, for $99 Jan 11 05:41:54 what exactly is that the centro can do that these other phones cannot? Jan 11 05:42:04 in terms of the casual user Jan 11 05:42:16 as opposed to the power user Jan 11 05:42:20 ? Jan 11 05:42:34 http://www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US/adirect/motorola?cmd=catProductDetail there's the v9m Jan 11 05:42:41 notice how it says "with plan" Jan 11 05:43:17 the centro is the closest in specifications to the original challenge Jan 11 05:43:18 I get an error message when I click that link Jan 11 05:43:38 the link that I provieded clearly says 'with no plan' Jan 11 05:43:55 not for $249 Jan 11 05:44:05 yezzir Jan 11 05:44:44 no, the link you provided was the generic front page of the motorola store. I had to search for the v9m Jan 11 05:44:55 look where it says "Feature phones only (no plan)" Jan 11 05:45:15 click on the 'moto store' graphic Jan 11 05:45:21 holla Jan 11 05:46:19 none of the 3 phones listed there are the v9m Jan 11 05:47:03 but you can store mp3s, check email, and surf Jan 11 05:47:11 it doesn't need to say v9 Jan 11 05:47:33 you specifically cited the v9m Jan 11 05:47:49 cmon yo, defcon only cost 100 Jan 11 05:48:07 the neo should cost about the same Jan 11 05:48:13 as a symblic gesture Jan 11 05:48:16 keep it real Jan 11 05:49:14 yeah I know a lot of people that use linux and open source Jan 11 05:49:34 but I know of only one old dude that buys those $20 linux magazines. Jan 11 05:50:05 coming out with $450 'open-source' phone... is not the move. Jan 11 05:50:10 no ones going for it. Jan 11 05:50:20 probably because it's not done yet Jan 11 05:50:34 I guess you told me then. Jan 11 05:50:37 unno Jan 11 05:50:57 Hey, I just got my phone. I need to flash it and I have some questions. I am hoping you can be gentle. Jan 11 05:51:34 free1: as wonderful as it's been discussing phones that don't compare to the Neo, I have to sleep Jan 11 05:51:56 RayDar: stick around, I'm not sure how many people are up, or awake at this point Jan 11 05:51:57 makes sense, safe travels Jan 11 05:53:38 ~ask Jan 11 05:53:39 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Jan 11 05:53:43 summatusmentis: Thanks. The wiki instructions say to issue a "cu -l /dev/ttyACM0" command, but /dev/ttyACM0 doesn't show up on my system. Jan 11 05:54:42 Do I need to enable some kernel driver to get /dev/ttyACM0 to show up? Might it be called something else on my Gentoo system? Jan 11 05:54:43 RayDar: Did anything show up when you plugged the phone USB cable in, and powered up the phone? Jan 11 05:55:00 (check dmesg if necessary) Jan 11 05:56:20 mwester: I checked dmesg, which states that it saw a new device on the USB bus and that it chose configuration #1 of two choices, but it doesn't say anything about assigning a /dev device. Jan 11 05:57:02 He vanished... Jan 11 05:57:12 He's back... Jan 11 05:57:24 Doh! Just installed this IRC client. I haven't been on the IRC in years. Jan 11 05:57:29 What's the state of the neo -- do you have the u-boot menu up? Jan 11 05:57:42 mwester: Yes. Jan 11 05:57:57 RayDar: the kernel module is called cdc_acm Jan 11 05:58:25 mmontour: OK. I will search around for it. Jan 11 05:59:30 Probably in Device Drivers somewhere. Jan 11 06:01:24 Oh, looks like an "emerge kmobiletools" is what I need Jan 11 06:02:02 or not... Jan 11 06:03:19 Device Drivers -> USB Support -> USB Modem (CDC ACM) Support Jan 11 06:04:08 Yeah! I have a /dev/ttyACM0 Jan 11 06:04:23 The wiki should probably mention that kernel driver as needed. Jan 11 06:07:09 * RayDar wonders what this phone will be like when he finally has it booting. Jan 11 06:13:23 not a lot of chat here Jan 11 06:13:31 quite a few folks though Jan 11 06:19:34 Anyone alive? Jan 11 06:21:36 still breathing Jan 11 06:21:53 seriously laconic Jan 11 06:23:09 I'm just glad you are free. Jan 11 06:24:17 * RayDar nervously flashes the rootfs for the first time on his brand new phone.... Jan 11 06:28:13 booting...... Jan 11 06:29:16 Please wait... Jan 11 06:31:29 Hmmmm seems to be a phone. Jan 11 06:31:34 (mostly) Jan 11 06:32:03 surprisingly slow to change apps. Jan 11 06:32:39 depends on your frame of reference :-) it's faster than what it was 12 months ago ... Jan 11 06:32:46 hehe Jan 11 06:32:59 and for some people it's faster than the emulator Jan 11 06:33:07 just got mine (xmas present) Jan 11 06:34:36 lotsa games Jan 11 06:45:40 Good morning Jan 11 06:51:15 Heh, it's 22:51 here. Jan 11 06:51:30 * CM has 07.51 Jan 11 06:51:54 That's one reason it's so quiet now. A lot of europeans in here, and we like to sleep in the mornings.. ;) Jan 11 06:52:30 Sure is quiet. Jan 11 07:01:33 what do I use as a terminal-based text editor? nano doesn't seem to be present Jan 11 07:03:02 RayDar: vi is Jan 11 07:03:16 Or, I think you can install joe Jan 11 07:03:27 Or any other editor that's in the feeds :) Jan 11 07:03:40 Have you gotten usb networking or so up? Jan 11 07:05:15 CM: Nope. I am working on that. The wiki says to edit /etc/network/interfaces Jan 11 07:05:25 Hmm.. Jan 11 07:05:37 I think you don't have to do much on the neo Jan 11 07:05:46 At least it's worked out of the box for me Jan 11 07:05:54 Once I had everything configured on my comp Jan 11 07:06:46 yeah, I see it's already there Jan 11 07:06:52 :) Jan 11 07:07:06 I see a wlan entry. I thought these didn't do 80211 Jan 11 07:07:16 No, not the GTA01 Jan 11 07:07:26 But the GTA02 will run the same software Jan 11 07:07:35 So there are some extra stuff in there Jan 11 07:07:41 I will want to trade up. Jan 11 07:07:48 Me too Jan 11 07:09:13 Isn't there some sort of discount for those who bought the current model? Jan 11 07:09:27 No, instead the price of the current model was lowered Jan 11 07:13:21 fascinating. Can they make a call yet? Jan 11 07:13:45 Sure, I used up my prepaid card on my neo Jan 11 07:13:56 But the battery time is not so good Jan 11 07:14:17 Also, you should install gllin to get the gps stuff working :) Jan 11 07:14:46 CM: Noted. First I am going to try to get this USB networking thing going. Jan 11 07:15:11 CM: Is there a screen brightness control? Jan 11 07:15:23 Hmm.. I think so Jan 11 07:15:40 Or just echo into some sys/bla bla/brightness :) Jan 11 07:17:55 * RayDar looks around for this usbnet kernel module Jan 11 07:18:14 RayDar: Btw, better search then in the wiki: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw&hl=en Jan 11 07:21:54 Device Drivers->Network device support->USB Network Adapters->Multipurpose USB Networking Framework Jan 11 07:21:57 (I think) Jan 11 07:23:11 Can't remember, such long time since I did it but it sounds likely :) Jan 11 07:23:29 Whew, I need to clean my screen already..... and put a protector on it. Jan 11 07:25:04 I have no protector on it and I've had mine since august Jan 11 07:25:08 It's pretty durable Jan 11 07:25:18 Hmmmm. I have a usbnet module now but it doesn't make a usb0 device...... hmmmmmm Jan 11 07:25:23 Even managed to accidently use the ink pen tip instead fo the stylus, but no marks Jan 11 07:25:34 What distro are you on? Jan 11 07:25:38 Gentoo Jan 11 07:25:45 Ah, same as me then Jan 11 07:25:57 I've just moved, so I haven't had time to unpack my comp yet Jan 11 07:26:13 Wow, you get IRC on your eyelids?!? Convenient! Jan 11 07:26:21 :P Jan 11 07:26:25 I'm at work Jan 11 07:26:36 New work started this monday.. Jan 11 07:26:59 Anyway, create the usb0.net softlink in /etc/init.d/ Jan 11 07:27:19 And update the script according to the wiki Jan 11 07:28:27 RayDar: you need the cdc_ether module as well as usbnet Jan 11 07:28:33 Ahhhhh Jan 11 07:28:43 mmontour: Thanks.... compiling Jan 11 07:29:19 good luck - time for me to sleep. Jan 11 07:29:34 mmontour: Thanks again. Homer sleep now. Jan 11 07:30:46 Yeah, I have a usb0 network interface! Jan 11 07:31:44 :) Jan 11 07:33:12 Yeah, I can ping the phone. Jan 11 07:33:30 Nice, just some iptables rules left then Jan 11 07:34:10 I use dnsmasq for dns btw, not sure if that's in the wiki Jan 11 07:34:58 W00t! I have ssh'd to the phone! Jan 11 07:35:20 Nice, now things get a lot easier :) Jan 11 07:37:32 Indeed Jan 11 07:37:59 Oh geez, looks like I need to emerge iptables. Jan 11 07:39:11 here's a dime son, go get yourself a proper distro. Jan 11 07:39:36 Hehe Jan 11 07:41:29 ewon: at least RayDar will be used to waiting for long periods for things to compile, so building an openmoko image should feel right at home ... Jan 11 07:42:28 And getting things just the way he wants and not all extra cruft ;) Jan 11 07:48:03 Oh no, not a distro war! Jan 11 07:48:14 how long does the openmoko bettery work? say for listening on internet radio? Jan 11 07:48:54 Don't know about gta02, but gta01 is probably not that long Jan 11 07:49:20 RayDar: They're just teasing, it's not much flaming in here :) Jan 11 07:49:24 I hope all this extra stuff (debug board etc.) will work with the GTA02 Jan 11 07:49:30 ~gta Jan 11 07:49:31 well, gta is would having a woman as the main character change anything? it would still be GTA yeah grand theft alimony Jan 11 07:50:10 RayDar: The debugboard should work with any jtag Jan 11 07:51:15 I am somewhat of a newbie when it comes to jtag. Jan 11 07:51:24 I just figured out ICSP. Jan 11 07:51:47 is there any extra board that can add 3g support? Jan 11 07:51:48 Me too, just borrowed a debugboard before christmas and managed to get my Neo working before I moved Jan 11 07:51:59 nadio: No Jan 11 07:52:50 CM: not even true USB? Jan 11 07:53:04 * RayDar wonders what true USB is. Jan 11 07:53:14 ~true usb Jan 11 07:53:19 Well, the neo is an usb host, so if you get some power injection it should work Jan 11 07:53:24 RayDar: :P Jan 11 07:54:00 power injection? Jan 11 07:54:27 The usb host on the neo gta01 is not powered Jan 11 07:54:38 through, sorry about the typo Jan 11 07:54:55 So you can't use a 3G usb dongle without supplying 5v or so through some external power source Jan 11 07:55:08 I am thinking of gta02 Jan 11 07:55:12 Ahhhh. Jan 11 07:55:38 I was gunna wait for the gta02 but I got this one as an xmas present. So, whaddya gonna do? Jan 11 07:55:47 Don't know enough about gta02.. Been away a bit from things the last 3 weeks, moving, holidays and no computer at home.. Jan 11 07:56:03 RayDar: Use it as a cool toy. ;) Jan 11 07:57:17 CM: Yeah. I am afraid it might distract me from other projects though. Jan 11 07:57:44 Heh, move the other projects to the Neo ;) Jan 11 07:58:01 * * OM Bug 1178 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com Jan 11 07:58:01 * * iron out XVideo support in Xglamo Jan 11 07:58:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1178 Jan 11 07:58:43 this thing has xv support? Jan 11 07:58:55 GTA01 runs full X Jan 11 07:59:16 What kinda graphics system does it have? Nvidia? Jan 11 07:59:16 But GTA02 has a accelerated graphics card.. Jan 11 07:59:56 RayDar, it has an smedia chip named glamo. Jan 11 08:00:02 RayDar: http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm Jan 11 08:00:26 Is that the same brand that the new one will have? Jan 11 08:00:40 yes Jan 11 08:00:42 same chip Jan 11 08:01:01 unfortunately - i wouldnt get all worked up over it if i were you Jan 11 08:01:05 i've been doing benchmarks Jan 11 08:01:09 hehe Jan 11 08:01:20 even with a faster cpu - graphcis is about the same speed Jan 11 08:01:21 Probably can't play Portal on it. Jan 11 08:01:22 raster: We're not surprised that you have... ;) Jan 11 08:01:32 what we make up on the swings - we lost on the roundabouts Jan 11 08:02:00 the pitiful bus TO the smedia is a big cause of problems Jan 11 08:02:16 the fact that the smedia can only partly accelerate x is part of that too Jan 11 08:03:26 Yeah, it doesn't seem like a speed demon. Jan 11 08:07:28 But, if this thing had wifi, it could potentially take over all the functionality of my phone and my Palm T|X Jan 11 08:07:34 is it possible to add extra usb ports? Jan 11 08:08:06 morning Jan 11 08:08:17 nadio: thats what for usb hubs are Jan 11 08:08:22 * RayDar is away: sleeping or something Jan 11 08:09:02 thanks for your help CM Jan 11 08:11:50 RayDar: You're welcome :) Jan 11 08:22:25 good morning Jan 11 08:25:41 morning all Jan 11 08:25:45 ;) Jan 11 08:36:15 * RayDar is back Jan 11 08:36:24 Unable to sleep? Jan 11 08:36:47 I was mostly "or something". Jan 11 08:37:12 Never go to bed in the middle of your hobby. Jan 11 08:37:18 Hehe Jan 11 08:38:16 Lessee, wherewuzeye Jan 11 08:38:27 ah yes, iptables Jan 11 08:41:18 Hmmm, looks like it is a package and some kernel stuff Jan 11 08:41:37 Yes Jan 11 08:49:00 Wow, that re-compiled a lot of kernel stuff Jan 11 08:49:21 damn www.agngstrom-distribution.org is down :S Jan 11 08:49:53 damn, these pixels on the screen are small Jan 11 08:50:06 Hehe, 283 dpi.. Jan 11 08:52:47 ~time Jan 11 08:52:47 You cannot understand nature's perfect time cube! (2008.01.11 8:52:47 GMT) Jan 11 08:53:06 I suppose it's morning for the limeys Jan 11 08:54:03 I need to reboot to take advantage of my new iptables Jan 11 08:54:07 BRB Jan 11 08:58:10 abraxa__: Good morning :) Jan 11 08:58:56 Ahoy CM Jan 11 08:59:00 Long time no talk Jan 11 08:59:10 Yeah, long time no computer for me.. Jan 11 08:59:37 Likewise - Christmas and New Year's was computer-free time :) Jan 11 09:00:13 Yeah, and I finally moved in here in Stockholm. At my new job now Jan 11 09:00:34 Ohh, congrats! Jan 11 09:00:40 CM: yay! settling in to "married life" too? ;) Jan 11 09:00:59 I would bet that his g/f is checking her options ;) Jan 11 09:00:59 cjb_ie: Well, not really married yet, but engaged, and living on 38 sqm... Jan 11 09:01:15 CM: What's the new jobby then? Jan 11 09:01:16 I'm having trouble getting my stuff unpacked Jan 11 09:01:27 RayDar: Consultant, programming.. Jan 11 09:01:35 CM: see, that's why i put in the quotes :) Jan 11 09:01:37 Not sure what assignment yet though Jan 11 09:01:43 Hehe Jan 11 09:01:55 38 is pretty tight, but not extreme Jan 11 09:02:02 But you're already earning money? Good deal Jan 11 09:02:07 No, and it's very central Jan 11 09:02:14 abraxa__: Yes, full salary :D Jan 11 09:02:27 Niiiice Jan 11 09:02:44 Already spent 1000EUR on a bigger bed though.. ;) Jan 11 09:03:01 120cm is ok for a while, but not good for your back.. Jan 11 09:03:10 * CM needs coffee Jan 11 09:03:39 hehe, did you pay 1K e for 120cm bed? Jan 11 09:03:50 8eur per cm! Jan 11 09:03:59 Xx13: No, I had one like that, but now we have a 160cm Jan 11 09:04:07 Very nice one :) Jan 11 09:04:07 right Jan 11 09:04:39 we went for 180, and now the bed takes up most of the bedroom ;] Jan 11 09:05:01 Xx13: Well that would be bad for my 38 sqm Jan 11 09:05:20 nah, we have 49 Jan 11 09:05:30 and a newborn ;] Jan 11 09:05:43 Ouch.. Jan 11 09:05:57 I'll move before the family grows any bigger Jan 11 09:07:07 the plan was for my wife to get a nice postdoc position in a nice and warm country, but if we move to a more comfortable accomodation, we might not be able to leave ever.. Jan 11 09:07:32 Ah, I see Jan 11 09:07:59 wow, i'm in 42 sq m on my own and running out of space! Jan 11 09:08:13 although i'm starting to doubt this logic Jan 11 09:13:21 * RayDar quickly converts sqm to sqft Jan 11 09:13:30 (Darn backwards US) Jan 11 09:15:57 wow, 38 sqm is small! Jan 11 09:16:21 at one point i was sharing my place with a gf, and i was subletting my spare room to another couple Jan 11 09:16:27 I thought my 60 sq m place was small. Jan 11 09:16:45 _that_ was getting quite cramped Jan 11 09:18:13 * RayDar recompiles a bunch of stuff to add dbus support Jan 11 09:18:19 i was under impression that average homes in the US are bigger then in Europe Jan 11 09:18:34 * RayDar thinks this will allow openmoko stuff to appear on his own screen Jan 11 09:18:40 Xx13: everything is bigger in texas! Jan 11 09:19:15 and houses are cheaper to build Jan 11 09:19:31 Even the presidential treachery is bigger when it's from Texas. Jan 11 09:22:12 * RayDar wonders what will happen if he puts his SIM into this thing. Jan 11 09:22:34 ~top Jan 11 09:22:35 hmm... top is acting funky - keeps segfaulting - that's an old problem I know Jan 11 09:26:49 Is there actually a web browser? Or is that just there to taunt me? Jan 11 09:31:23 Xx13: The houses there are cheap because they're build like crap Jan 11 09:31:25 ;) Jan 11 09:32:57 nifty, the magic commands seem to have given my phone DNS lookup. Jan 11 09:34:59 seems like the "Web Browser - Conquer the net" item isn't real. Jan 11 09:35:53 Hmm.., maybe the link is wrong Jan 11 09:36:04 Try openmoko-browaser2 from the terminal Jan 11 09:40:47 Wow, it has a web browser. I guess the link is wrong. I wonder how I can fix that. Jan 11 09:40:58 Can the screen rotate? Jan 11 09:41:09 jep Jan 11 09:41:26 try the aux-button Jan 11 09:41:34 keep it pressed Jan 11 09:42:45 Hmmm, a menu comes up but none of the choices seem to do anything. Jan 11 09:43:10 oh wait, screenshot works. Jan 11 09:44:10 how do I bring up a keyboard to enter things into fields on web pages? Jan 11 09:44:46 It should pop up automaticly Jan 11 09:44:59 If not, there should be a keyboard icon on the top menu bar Jan 11 09:45:18 Not sure what build of the rootfs you're running Jan 11 09:46:35 2007-11-21 Jan 11 09:46:51 Oh, ok. That's fairly old, but should work Jan 11 09:47:33 RayDar: Try some of ScaredyCat's builds if you want newer stuff: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Jan 11 09:48:06 Just don't take the 85.3 mb files unless you boot from SD Jan 11 09:49:13 no keyboard icon, no automatic popup, aux button menus don't work either. Jan 11 09:49:35 I don't know how to boot from SD. Why wouldn't I want to take them unless I did so? Jan 11 09:49:53 Because the build in flash on gta01 is only 64mb Jan 11 09:50:35 Oh, it won't fit. Jan 11 09:50:45 Correct :) Jan 11 09:50:55 The gta02 will have 256 mb Jan 11 09:50:59 well, those larger files are just tar files. Presumably they would fit were you to untar on the internal flash :] Jan 11 09:51:19 but flashing the jffs2 image is rather a lot easier... Jan 11 09:51:27 maybe I should try an ipkg update or ipkg upgrade Jan 11 09:52:08 RayDar: I think reflashing would probably be faster, but who knows :) Jan 11 09:52:57 I tried the ipkg update. It's doing something. Jan 11 09:53:11 doh, just stopped Jan 11 09:53:21 It might fill the flash Jan 11 09:54:44 something about wget passive ftp not working. Jan 11 09:55:20 RayDar: yes Jan 11 09:55:26 RayDar: one error on ipkg update Jan 11 09:55:27 CM: also they need a lot less thermal insulation Jan 11 09:55:46 Xx13: Yes, especially compared to the nordic countries.. ;) Jan 11 09:56:13 ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp -q -P /tmp/ipkg-9MRNxd http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/neo1973/Packages.gz Jan 11 09:56:28 Gett a better repo Jan 11 09:56:31 get Jan 11 09:56:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Jan 11 09:56:56 CM: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/ <- neo1973 are missing Jan 11 09:57:10 CM: i'm use my own repo ;P Jan 11 09:57:14 Hehe Jan 11 09:57:18 s/i'm/i/ Jan 11 09:57:18 NineX meant: CM: i use my own repo ;P Jan 11 09:57:32 RayDar: Use ScaredyCat's, just follow the instructions on that wiki page Jan 11 09:59:22 CM: sholud i remove /etc/ipkg/*.conf , and add only my (it is safe?) Jan 11 09:59:46 NineX: I did that before and it worked fine Jan 11 10:00:00 But I just moved all other conf files to my /home/root/bak Jan 11 10:00:09 Also, you save space doing that Jan 11 10:00:37 When you have many configs, you get more disk space used for that update datbase for each file Jan 11 10:00:48 Can't remember where they were put though.. Jan 11 10:01:07 CM: cause snapshot-neo1973-feed.conf are fuckedup ;P Jan 11 10:01:15 Hehe Jan 11 10:01:38 CM: on the flashing page? Jan 11 10:01:58 RayDar: No, the Repositories one I linked to above :) Jan 11 10:07:33 Can't I just download the latest jffs2 and .bin files and then use dfu-util to upgrade? Jan 11 10:07:41 RayDar: Of course Jan 11 10:07:45 That's what I usually do Jan 11 10:07:57 OK, I think I will give it a try. Jan 11 10:07:57 (Except building them myself) Jan 11 10:08:08 Just don't update uboot unless you really really have to Jan 11 10:08:17 Yeah, that is what I have read. Jan 11 10:08:20 I won't. Jan 11 10:08:24 :) Jan 11 10:08:46 It's still good to have the feeds in your etc/ipkg/ though Jan 11 10:09:06 Makes it easy to install additional apps that are not in the default image Jan 11 10:13:41 18:08 < CM> Just don't update uboot unless you really really have to Jan 11 10:15:09 weird, it timed out several times. Jan 11 10:16:23 sending new rootfs Jan 11 10:17:00 CM: /var/lib/ipkg Jan 11 10:18:57 CM: you suck at the whole getting in touch thing :p Jan 11 10:21:10 morning! ;-) Jan 11 10:23:44 neat, there are some accelerometers in this baby. But it seems they don't work yet. Jan 11 10:27:22 xcasex: Yeah, sorry :( Jan 11 10:28:00 now now boys Jan 11 10:28:08 CM: :p Jan 11 10:29:01 RayDar: He lives in my hometown and we were supposed to meet up when I was home for christmas, but I sick for a few days, then my family kept me busy Jan 11 10:29:16 s/I si/I was si/ Jan 11 10:29:16 CM meant: RayDar: He lives in my hometown and we were supposed to meet up when I was home for christmas, but I was sick for a few days, then my family kept me busy Jan 11 10:29:20 updating uboot might be a good idea if you have a really really old version Jan 11 10:29:41 there was a bug that caused the slow charging to be even slower Jan 11 10:29:47 (50mA vs. 100mA) Jan 11 10:30:08 Yes, and you had to manually do nand erase rootfs if you changed to a smaller rootfs image Jan 11 10:30:30 I just got the phone today. Not sure if I want to risk it. Jan 11 10:31:02 RayDar: But you have the advanced kit with the debugboard and all? Jan 11 10:31:19 CM: Yuppers Jan 11 10:31:25 no worries then Jan 11 10:32:05 The "scaredy cat" version has a picture of someone's eyes and nose as a background image. Jan 11 10:33:46 oh my, quite a few new enhancements in this version. Jan 11 10:35:07 how dangerous is updating uboot in absence of dev board? Jan 11 10:35:09 Yeah, a lot happened in the first weeks of december Jan 11 10:35:17 Xx13: I did it 4-5 times Jan 11 10:35:37 It's fairly safe, until you flash a broken uboot version.. Jan 11 10:35:53 Maybe not "safe" but it works if the uboot version is good Jan 11 10:36:13 ok, and which ones are good? Jan 11 10:36:29 Not many... Jan 11 10:36:46 Can't remember wich one I'm using now Jan 11 10:37:09 would be a good idea to clean out the non working images from the repos Jan 11 10:37:12 Booting from sd was broken after august 13th I think Jan 11 10:37:23 And I still don't think that's fixed Jan 11 10:37:24 yo Jan 11 10:37:29 torpor: Hello :) Jan 11 10:37:30 whats news crew? Jan 11 10:37:32 hi CM! Jan 11 10:37:42 I just got back in here too Jan 11 10:37:56 i've been a bit quiet the last few weeks - christmas and all that - and i just recently started working again (for THALES, doing driver development, woot!) but i'm hoping i can get a bit more active.. Jan 11 10:38:13 :) Jan 11 10:38:42 anyone know whats up with svn.berlios.de? should i switch to some other server? Jan 11 10:39:09 I guess berlios is just having troubles as usually.. Jan 11 10:40:04 Wow, the browser really needs an activity indicator. Jan 11 10:40:23 It needs a lot of stuff Jan 11 10:40:35 Last I tried wikipedia.org crashed it Jan 11 10:41:17 hehe. It is doing amazingly well at my fancy site. Jan 11 10:41:57 It would be nice if full screen works. Rotate does. Jan 11 10:45:08 The browser is far superior to that on my Palm TX Jan 11 10:45:35 Well, it is webkit based :) Jan 11 10:45:55 I dunno what that is. Jan 11 10:46:11 Same as Safari is using Jan 11 10:46:21 And many other browsers now too Jan 11 10:46:40 I see.... just went to their homepage. Jan 11 10:46:45 :) Jan 11 10:47:48 hmm.. Jan 11 10:47:49 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for libepsilon0: Jan 11 10:47:49 libepeg0 (>= 0.9.0+cvs20071206) libedje0 (>= 0.5.0.41+cvs20071206) libecore-evas (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore-x (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore-fb (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore-file (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore-ipc (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore-con (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libecore0 (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) libevas0 (>= 0.9.9.041+cvs20071206) Jan 11 10:48:01 ~blame mickey_away Jan 11 10:48:02 * apt blames mickey_away (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Jan 11 10:48:06 wtf is that all about? Jan 11 10:48:14 should i do some changes to my repo? Jan 11 10:48:14 oh god Jan 11 10:48:17 hmmmm, no camera on the phone. Jan 11 10:48:22 not using the openembedded EFL .bb';s Jan 11 10:48:28 they are in serious need of loving Jan 11 10:48:47 i have a bunch of much better/fixed ones, but i built them to build off my local cvs dev tree Jan 11 10:49:04 as i then can build a package instantly direct from my current dev srcs Jan 11 10:49:06 raster: repo? Jan 11 10:49:14 no repo Jan 11 10:49:24 is there a fix? Jan 11 10:49:33 but i can upload the ipk's i built yesterday Jan 11 10:49:44 i'm just trying to keep my neo current is all .. not even sure why i got this problem now to be honest.. Jan 11 10:49:44 * RayDar is away: asleep for real this time (thanks lots CM) Jan 11 10:49:50 thre .bb's i have should be fine exccept the SRC needs to be changed to use anoncvs instead of a local dir Jan 11 10:50:15 hmmm Jan 11 10:50:20 wonder what u need epsilon for Jan 11 10:50:23 entrance? Jan 11 10:50:33 entrance isn't much use on a neo really Jan 11 10:50:37 got no idea. Jan 11 10:50:48 all i did was ipkg update && ipkg upgrade Jan 11 10:50:55 so want me to show you the log? Jan 11 10:51:07 oooh nooo Jan 11 10:51:09 no no Jan 11 10:51:15 i have 1.5 months of email to catch up on Jan 11 10:51:18 hehe Jan 11 10:51:23 got enough rheems of text to deal with Jan 11 10:51:28 sure? Jan 11 10:51:33 coz i think you just should. Jan 11 10:51:35 damn ISP had my internude down for 1.5 months Jan 11 10:51:36 raster: Finally gotten internet working in australia? :D Jan 11 10:51:43 internude - i like it :) Jan 11 10:51:44 incompetent fools Jan 11 10:52:04 cjb_ie: just accepting honestly what its used for Jan 11 10:52:05 :) Jan 11 10:52:46 for future reference regarding libepsilon0 problems: http://rafb.net/p/drJ2KO72.html Jan 11 10:52:52 <-- going away now Jan 11 10:53:26 * CM grabs a bite Jan 11 10:54:00 <_Damien_> hi there.. I'm trying to get the touchscreen to work with tslib+QT4.. but it doesn't work Jan 11 10:54:16 <_Damien_> tslib tells me that the touchscreen is unknown Jan 11 10:54:25 <_Damien_> do I have to apply any patches? Jan 11 10:55:51 <_Damien_> I also tried the linuxtp driver of QT4 but the cursor remains in the top-left corner Jan 11 10:56:02 <_Damien_> any ideas? Jan 11 11:09:13 exit Jan 11 11:09:18 ups Jan 11 11:12:06 does someone have nokia communicator phone? Jan 11 11:20:08 does someone have a fortran compiler or an idea what i can do without? my mokomakefile requires one since yesterday Jan 11 11:29:04 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/11/keyboard-in-palmtops/ Jan 11 11:30:15 morning Jan 11 11:30:35 emdete: Install gcc with fortran support? Jan 11 11:32:29 hi Mac Jan 11 11:32:45 emdete: touch build/conf/sanity.conf Jan 11 11:33:14 emdete: then it will ignore all sanity checking - but this is insane setting for non-OE devs Jan 11 11:34:57 CM: tried that. does not work... Jan 11 11:35:27 Hmm.. Asked around in #oe any? Jan 11 11:36:05 CM: good idea. hrw what do you mean with "but this is insane setting for non-OE devs" - what is non-OE? Jan 11 11:36:25 I guess he means non oe developers Jan 11 11:36:31 Users like you and me :) Jan 11 11:40:32 <_Damien_> could anyone help me to get the touchscreen of my neo1973 to work under arm-linux Jan 11 11:40:39 <_Damien_> ? Jan 11 11:41:39 What is the problem? Jan 11 11:41:48 Using openmoko? Jan 11 11:44:04 <_Damien_> no, I'm using a unpatched linux Jan 11 11:44:06 <_Damien_> tslib tells me that the touchscreen is unknown Jan 11 11:44:17 <_Damien_> do I have to apply any patches to tslib? Jan 11 11:45:39 danilos: what you mean by 'unpatched linux'? Jan 11 11:46:07 hrw: I mean compiled directly from sources from kernel.org Jan 11 11:46:12 ;) Jan 11 11:46:13 <_Damien_> hm, I'm using 'Wombat' that is a linux on top of OKL4 Jan 11 11:46:27 <_Damien_> without any openmoko specific patches Jan 11 11:46:30 ops - I mean _Damien_ ;D Jan 11 11:46:55 _Damien_: so you lack support for some neo1973 components Jan 11 11:47:42 <_Damien_> yes Jan 11 11:47:56 so you know why you lack touchscreen? Jan 11 11:48:05 <_Damien_> but I can access the touchscreen Jan 11 11:48:23 <_Damien_> the driver makes it directly accessible Jan 11 11:48:35 <_Damien_> under /dev/touchscreen/0 Jan 11 11:48:40 <_Damien_> and under /dev/touchscreen/0raw Jan 11 11:48:53 it should be /dev/input/touchscreen0 rather but ok Jan 11 11:49:06 _Damien_: did you told tslib where touchscreen is? Jan 11 11:50:52 <_Damien_> yes Jan 11 11:50:52 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_CALIBFILE=/etc/pointercal Jan 11 11:50:52 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_CONFFILE=/etc/ts.conf Jan 11 11:50:52 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_PLUGINDIR=/lib/ts Jan 11 11:50:53 _Damien_: do you have entries in /dev/input? Jan 11 11:50:54 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_TSDEVICE=/dev/touchscreen/0 Jan 11 11:50:56 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_CONSOLEDEVICE=/dev/console Jan 11 11:50:58 <_Damien_> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/ts:/usr/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH Jan 11 11:51:00 <_Damien_> export TSLIB_FBDEVICE=/dev/fb0 Jan 11 11:51:02 <_Damien_> export QWS_MOUSE_PROTO=tslib Jan 11 11:51:22 <_Damien_> yes, /dev/input/event0 , event1 Jan 11 11:51:38 <_Damien_> I also tried those Jan 11 11:52:17 if cat /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/pcf50606/0-0008/chgcur tells me my battery is charges with "880" ... what is this? Jan 11 11:52:24 880mA over USB? Jan 11 11:52:46 RedDog: sometimes it even tell 17000... it is just buggy Jan 11 11:52:55 my currentmeter tells me my battery gets 33mA ... Jan 11 11:53:13 fast charge is enabled... Jan 11 11:53:17 what's wrong? Jan 11 11:54:55 <_Damien_> I also tried the linuxtp driver of QT4 but the cursor remains in the top-left corner Jan 11 11:55:10 <_Damien_> and I don't get any click event Jan 11 11:55:31 <_Damien_> so I'm not able to recalibrate the TS Jan 11 11:58:19 <_Damien_> btw. this is the message QT4/tslib shows: selected device is not a touchscreen I understand Jan 11 11:58:48 RedDog: just a theory: something else uses up 467ma Jan 11 12:00:11 thseiler: hmm ... will shutdown ;-) Jan 11 12:04:29 <_Damien_> is wether tslib or the kernel itself of openmoko is patched in order to use it with the neo1973 phone? Jan 11 12:06:26 _Damien_: Maybe poke mickey_away about that when he gets back Jan 11 12:07:02 <_Damien_> CM: ok, thanx Jan 11 12:07:21 could my currentmeter reduce the charge current? Jan 11 12:07:37 _Damien_: balrog-kun might know some too, he's the qemu guy (and more) :) Jan 11 12:08:02 RedDog: don't know... hm, there is an option you can set on the uboot shell: neo1973 charger autofast Jan 11 12:08:30 There's a lot of power related things in the wiki Jan 11 12:08:49 RedDog: this will enable fast charching, while all the other periferialls are still switched off, even whith a dump charger that does not speak usb Jan 11 12:09:10 RedDog: it's not milliamps Jan 11 13:24:24 SpeedEvil, roh: any news about d3reg? Jan 11 13:25:01 RedDog: it's practically unimportant Jan 11 13:25:32 :-( Jan 11 13:25:40 RedDog: from some reading I did yesterday - going through the datasheet - it's not possible to use the GTA01 at 266MHz as it is, and remain within spec. Jan 11 13:25:57 Within the recommended conditions on the datasheet that is Jan 11 13:26:02 However. Jan 11 13:26:33 It's certain not to cause damage, and as I read the rest of the datasheet, and general knowledge, unlikely not to actually work Jan 11 13:27:28 I want to update gsm pathces on to neo Jan 11 13:27:28 SpeedEvil, double negatives? Jan 11 13:27:39 The only real 'fix' that should be done at some point in the future is that it should clock down to 200MHz and reduce the voltage before switching off. Jan 11 13:28:15 This saves some 200uW of power Jan 11 13:28:36 Which is about half of the suspend-RAM current Jan 11 13:28:39 Hi all, I want to update gsm pathces on to neo1973 any Idia ? Jan 11 13:28:50 (which the neo doesn't properly do yet) Jan 11 13:29:01 SpeedEvil, uW? Jan 11 13:29:06 yes Jan 11 13:29:38 ok ok ... Jan 11 13:29:42 It's somewhat down the list of powersaving measures. Jan 11 13:29:59 what are the problems on suspend to ram? Jan 11 13:30:03 i cant imagine why :) Jan 11 13:31:07 RedDog: I don't know - it uses - last I measured it - a few orders of magnitude more power than it should Jan 11 13:31:17 SpeedEvil, so the neo in suspend-ram should use 400uw? Jan 11 13:31:41 cb23: on the order of a milliwatt or so, with suspend-RAM, and the RAM self-refreshing. Jan 11 13:32:05 However. This is with the CPU totally shut down. And it essentially needs to be rebooted. Jan 11 13:32:46 From (very limited) research I've done, I think it just turns off the clock to the CPU at the moment, which only cuts the power to some half of what it is normally Jan 11 13:33:48 right, so it would be more of a replace to off, then a replacement to suspend? Jan 11 13:34:19 The CPU doesn't have an extremely low power mode where it maintains all the registers. Jan 11 13:34:27 SpeedEvil: but the power cunsumption is different from time to time, isn't it? Jan 11 13:34:38 time to time? Jan 11 13:34:41 one time i had only 20mA in suspend to ram ... Jan 11 13:34:48 RedDog: how measured? Jan 11 13:34:50 another time it takes 80mA Jan 11 13:35:01 betwen battery+ and neo ;-) Jan 11 13:35:13 currentmeter ... Jan 11 13:35:18 RedDog: Turn off amp power, ensure bluetooth and GPS is off. Jan 11 13:35:21 and GSM Jan 11 13:35:56 bluetooth and gps were off all the time... Jan 11 13:35:58 can someone remember me who has created bb file for wesnoth ? Jan 11 13:35:59 I plan on getting nasty with JTAG and current measurements on a running system when my debug board arrive Jan 11 13:36:24 how do i controll the amp power? Jan 11 13:36:36 how can i be shure gsm is off? Jan 11 13:36:36 RedDog: alsamixer - it's amp-mode I think Jan 11 13:36:40 one of them is 'off' Jan 11 13:36:45 | CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include Jan 11 13:36:48 :S Jan 11 13:37:47 Offtopic - has anyone done any CSR bluetooth chip programnming? Jan 11 13:39:13 CM, I want to update gsm pathces on to neo1973 any Idia ? Jan 11 13:39:51 What do you mean At? Jan 11 13:42:39 SpeedEvil: 32mA Jan 11 13:46:43 RedDog: that's from memory about what I measured. You're sure you've turned GSM off? Sent at@poff? Jan 11 13:47:39 i used libgsmtool -m shell and press o and m... after another o gsmd stopt running Jan 11 13:49:42 SpeedEvil, I just want to updat gsmd patches on to my device. Jan 11 13:49:43 openmoko: 03chris * r3814 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Jan 11 13:49:43 openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-alsa-volume-button.[ch]: Jan 11 13:49:43 openmoko: Add an alsa volume control widget (requires refactoring) Jan 11 13:49:49 Did you have any Idea Jan 11 13:55:44 SpeedEvil: now it drops 64mA?!? GSM is off!! Jan 11 13:55:52 Atul_: if you ask about getting a more current gsmd, try 'ipkg update && ipkg upgrade' Jan 11 13:56:00 Atul_: what do you mean? the GSM module firmware update is not yet available Jan 11 13:57:33 LarstiQ, SpeedEvil, I have update moko build environment on my system latest one I want only gsmd .ipkg packages install on to neo1973. So my question is where to install these packages Jan 11 14:01:24 Atul_: If you have your feed configured, just update and upgrade :) Jan 11 14:01:48 CM, yes I have but it fails after 7-8 download Jan 11 14:02:33 CM, These error I got "ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp -q -P /tmp/ipkg-lcBsHv http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/fic-gta01/gdk-pixbuf-loader-gif_2.10.14-r5_fic-gta01.ipk' Jan 11 14:02:33 " Jan 11 14:05:38 Atul_: that's not the actual error Jan 11 14:06:06 LasrtiQ, Then where is the problem Jan 11 14:12:12 anybody happen to know any working gpsd's on the net i can connect for testing? the ones on gpsd page are down Jan 11 14:12:34 what for? Jan 11 14:12:46 just test some client queries Jan 11 14:12:55 why not run your own? Jan 11 14:13:13 dont get position here Jan 11 14:13:34 there is a 'fake' backend Jan 11 14:13:38 which does random walk Jan 11 14:13:39 IIRC Jan 11 14:14:10 Atul_: earlier on, so check all of the output Jan 11 14:14:46 LarstQ, Am not getting you. Jan 11 14:14:48 http://gpsd.berlios.de/gpsfake.html Jan 11 14:15:08 not tried that i was just being lazy as the ones on net usually work Jan 11 14:15:30 Atul_: use http://rafb.net/paste/ and paste the entire output following ipkg upgrade there Jan 11 14:15:39 (don't paste on irc) Jan 11 14:15:57 LarstiQ, Ya I konw ok I will do it. Jan 11 14:17:12 so i guess could pipe the contents of cating the gllin pipe into that or something along those lines Jan 11 14:17:22 yeah Jan 11 14:17:39 actually that doesnt make sense Jan 11 14:18:01 i need get a real log first for that Jan 11 14:18:18 with position data Jan 11 14:18:19 dcc ok? Jan 11 14:18:22 sure Jan 11 14:20:51 Not a neo one. Jan 11 14:21:18 hmm what did xchat do ! lol Jan 11 14:21:47 looks like it's not wanting DCC Jan 11 14:22:23 SpeedEvil: booted, entered pin and so on (gsm definatly on)... apm -s -> ~50-60mA Jan 11 14:22:27 http://www.mauvedotplus.com/log_2007-12-08_10-51-40.bin.bz2 Jan 11 14:22:39 (with a literal dot) Jan 11 14:23:17 great thanx speedevil Jan 11 14:23:24 6000s or so Jan 11 14:24:42 btw if u have some time soon have an app i would love u to try as i know u have gps and gprs working! ill buy u a pint if u visit london :) Jan 11 14:25:10 openmoko: 03chris * r3815 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Jan 11 14:25:10 openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-alsa-volume-button.[ch]: Jan 11 14:25:10 openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-alsa-volume-control.[ch]: Jan 11 14:25:10 openmoko: Refactor into separate control a widget objects for flexibility Jan 11 14:43:50 bbiab Jan 11 14:55:12 speedevil: I'm unable to solder the AUX switch back onto the main board. I think it's a BGA part because it doesn't have pins, just four pads. Suggestions? Jan 11 14:56:24 And it's real close to the display--hard to get a soldering iron in there Jan 11 15:01:11 ha someone fixed alsa states and caller don't listen echo when calling to may openmoko phone :> Jan 11 15:02:08 nnpiggy: ooh Jan 11 15:02:17 NineX: and that's actually in svn now? Jan 11 15:02:44 NineX: or was that a question? Jan 11 15:04:28 LarstiQ: alsa-state_0.1.0-r9 has no echo issue :> Jan 11 15:06:41 * NineX is waiting for current version of u-boot with boot from SD support Jan 11 15:06:43 NineX: good Jan 11 15:07:59 Boot over GSM! Jan 11 15:08:00 :) Jan 11 15:08:13 Well - nbd+ppp+GPRS Jan 11 15:08:20 hehehe Jan 11 15:08:37 NineX: where can i get this alsa state? Jan 11 15:09:45 borg_: make update-bleeding-edge && make openmoko-devel-image Jan 11 15:09:47 ;P Jan 11 15:09:58 ah, it is in the svn? ok thx :) Jan 11 15:14:35 can anybody interpret this: http://mastersword.de/~reddog/panic.jpg ? Jan 11 15:15:34 ran out of memory while suspending is my guess Jan 11 15:17:46 out of memory? Jan 11 15:18:15 i killed all not needed apps before! :D Jan 11 15:18:26 rmmod unneeded modules... Jan 11 15:20:14 RedDog: do you have a list of modules you rmmod'ed? Jan 11 15:20:23 i guess one of it was needed :) Jan 11 15:20:52 suspend_device from device_suspend <3 Jan 11 15:32:48 hey guys Jan 11 15:32:53 been a long time since I was in here Jan 11 15:33:11 my neo's been with a friend the last couple of months. Jan 11 15:33:29 LarstiQ, hello. what's up? Jan 11 15:34:48 nnpiggy: I seem to be having a cold and headache. Do we know eacht other? Jan 11 15:41:08 borg_: all bluetooth, snd ... at the end there were only "ohci_hcd nls_iso8859_1 nls_cp437 vfat fat nls_base" Jan 11 15:43:34 NineX: If you want a recent u-boot that can boot from SD, you can add the patch that's attached to bug #799 to the uboot-openmoko_svn.bb u-boot. Or get a slightly older prebuilt one from http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/u-boot/ Jan 11 16:18:30 quick question: how does one build a debug binary (with symbols) using openembedded ? Is there a trick to do that ? Jan 11 16:19:16 thseiler, normally, you have foo-dbg ipk created Jan 11 16:19:49 so i instal the foo-dbg packet instead ? Jan 11 16:20:20 thseiler, yup Jan 11 16:20:40 great, thanks! Jan 11 16:20:54 np..happy hacking Jan 11 16:32:14 * RayDar is back Jan 11 16:32:23 does the "auto register with network" thing work? Jan 11 16:47:11 question: is the port where I connect my debug-board a normal serial-port? Does my neo has a normal serial port so I can use it as serial console (and not something with usb?) Jan 11 16:47:34 AS I understand it, yes. Jan 11 16:47:41 But you can't use the GSM modem at the same time Jan 11 16:47:45 it's one or the other Jan 11 16:48:18 Field: Yes, and its not the same voltage as a RS232 port, so don't connect it directly !!! Jan 11 16:49:28 oh GSM would be fare away in the future for me.. next question .. I can connect to openOCD (as I understand - this conencts me to the debug-board) .. but how can I get access this port as normal serial-console? Jan 11 16:49:43 is there anything describben somewhere in our wiki? Jan 11 16:50:27 Field: start with the "Neo1973 Debug Board v2" wiki page. Short answer - the serial port shows up as /dev/ttyUSB1 Jan 11 16:53:30 mmontour: well - i've already read this page, but /dev/ttyUSB1 is shown up in the normal openmoko-kernel .. not in my case .. I am almost sure my kernel (okl4) puts his output inside the "normal" ttyS0 or somehing like that. .. So what I would like to do is to watch what comes out at the other side.. Jan 11 16:54:54 maybe I'll describe my question a bit more .. "how do I use the debug board - to get the serial output of my own-moko-kerel inside my host-gentoo-system" Jan 11 16:55:56 On the host system, the debug board should provide you with /dev/ttyUSB1. You need the ftdi_sio module loaded with the correct parameters as shown on the wiki Jan 11 16:56:11 what brings me to that question is - that if I start the same kernel insede qemu with the parameter "-serial blabla" .. and connect via terminal-programm with the given port .. i'll see my console Jan 11 16:56:48 The chip on the debug board is connected over the FPC to the serial port on the Neo. When you boot the Neo kernel, you can give it a "console=/dev/ttySAC0,115200" parameter (or something like that) to tell it to put its console onto that serial port Jan 11 16:57:09 exactly Jan 11 16:57:46 ok - so it looks like the fault would be found there ... i've put ftdi_sio not as module .. so i could not give any parameters Jan 11 16:58:06 That's probably the issue. It needs to know the vendor and product IDs Jan 11 16:58:48 kk .. thank you - I'll check this.. Jan 11 17:13:37 A quick thought - is it possible to GPLv3 hardware? Jan 11 17:14:35 It's not especially applicable. Jan 11 17:14:35 i.e. all components of GPLv3 need to be GPL'd - can you create a license for hardware which specifies that all software needs to be open sourced - so that the hardware manufacturer can be sure it wasn't a badly-coded program that made the hardware fail :) Jan 11 17:15:09 You're claiming no open-sourced programs have bugs? Jan 11 17:15:20 * SpeedEvil dies laughing. Jan 11 17:15:21 no, i'm claiming every program has bugs Jan 11 17:15:37 but at least in the open source model _everyone_ has the capability of viewing them Jan 11 17:15:53 In theory - spending man-years of effort per bug. Jan 11 17:16:00 true. Jan 11 17:16:18 Some bugs are trivial on a reading of the code. Jan 11 17:16:25 Others are more involved. Jan 11 17:17:01 imagine if some closed-source vendor created a killer-app for the moko.. then no man-in-the-street had access - as the program was only made available to people on a certain vendors' contract Jan 11 17:17:11 * andylockran is taking things to the extreme Jan 11 17:17:34 I see no problem with that. Jan 11 17:17:39 And think it's a good thing. Jan 11 17:17:54 If someone wants to make an open-source clone, go for it. Jan 11 17:18:23 fair enough. I personally think it'd annoy the hell out of consumers on other contracts Jan 11 17:18:44 I have no problem at all with it - as long as it's clearly explained to the user at purchase time. Jan 11 17:19:09 andred_: being annoyed is not a reason why you should be able to use someones work without their permission. Jan 11 17:20:04 I'm not saying that.. what I'm saying is that given the developers have spent so long on developing the hardware and the OS for the moko - shouldn't the application developers pay them back by sharing their software with them too Jan 11 17:20:13 No. Jan 11 17:20:19 Absolutely not. Jan 11 17:20:46 Users must have the choice of installing open-source or non-open-source. Jan 11 17:21:36 I take your point, though I don't personally agree with it. Jan 11 17:21:39 However, if there are compelling apps, which took many man-years of development to develop, and won't ever appear open-source, should you ban users from using them? Jan 11 17:23:07 Say - for example - a really good speaker independant voice recogniser that transcribed all your incoming calls, for example. Jan 11 17:23:14 no, I don't think you should ban them. what I was saying is you should pre-empt that "man-years of development" by specifying the license before the hardware is released. My thoughts don't relate to the neo itself - I was using it as a hypothetical object.. but your point remains valid Jan 11 17:23:49 Hardware on which I cannot run commercial apps reduces my freedom as to what I can do with it. Jan 11 17:24:30 Just as much as hardware that can only run closed-source apps. Jan 11 17:25:22 incorrect Jan 11 17:25:31 Free Software gives users freedom - it also gives them freedom to run non-free apps, and it would stop being Free Software is that was prevented. Jan 11 17:25:36 Well - not just as much. Jan 11 17:25:41 indeed Jan 11 17:25:56 But in practice, I have no freedom to write certain apps. Jan 11 17:26:16 For example, a speaker independant voice recognition library, as I don't have 20 years spare. Jan 11 17:31:59 GPL already reduces your freedom a bit as to what you can link the code with, so i can see a valid argument in reducing the freedom further to disallow proprietary apps on top of linux Jan 11 17:32:54 bsd has no such restriction, GPL attempts to find some optimal place between the two extremes Jan 11 17:33:21 that's why linus doesn't want to go with GPL v3, he thinks the restrictions go too far alreayd in it Jan 11 17:35:33 the mailing lists are so active today Jan 11 17:35:35 Personally, I want to have the freedom to buy OpenMoko on a device locked to one provider, and maybe even with a phone vendors approved software only on it (which list I can view first). If they are willing to subsidise it significantly. Jan 11 17:35:56 Also the freedom to buy an unsubsidised one, and only run open source. Jan 11 17:40:39 balrog-kun, Without attempting to start a flamewar on the subject, there are a proverbial buttload of people who consider the GPL's restrictions as unacceptable in Free Software. Jan 11 17:43:57 stupid debates on the list Jan 11 18:09:21 kdean06: exactly Jan 11 18:09:37 most notably thow who grew up with bsd or other software Jan 11 18:10:01 I grew up with Windows and Mac. :) I still prefer ISC/BSD. :) Jan 11 18:10:23 similarly the restriction of running closed-source on OpenMoko seems unacceptable for many people who use Linux, e.g. SpeedEvil Jan 11 18:10:41 but if GPL had the restriction from the beginning it would probably be ok with us Jan 11 18:13:52 kdean06: terminology quibble: Free Software is a term invented by Stallman explicitly for GPLed software, and other software that ensures that the end user has access to source for any software he gets Jan 11 18:14:15 So I would replace Free Software with Open Source and then agree with what you said about acceptability of GPL :-) Jan 11 18:14:16 balrog-kun, gpl doesn't reduce your freedom to link, it just limits how you can redistribute it Jan 11 18:15:00 wurp2, actually no, that term would be "copyleft" Jan 11 18:15:15 free software consists from much more than just GPLd software, yes Jan 11 18:15:29 mjr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software Jan 11 18:16:37 wurp2, I see your point, but disagree with using Open Source since it's (historically) Free Software (according to Bruce) and also because there's an established connotation to it as well. I use the term "Libre" and when I say "Free Software" I mean software that meets Stallman's criterion. :) But I am sure you know that. Jan 11 18:17:29 kdean06: when you say Free Software you mean software that meets Stallman's criterion? Jan 11 18:17:54 because e.g. BSD doesn't meet the criterion I'm referring to Jan 11 18:18:12 fsf has a list of approved opensource licenses Jan 11 18:18:18 nor does public domain software Jan 11 18:18:18 i think BSD is one of them? Jan 11 18:18:27 public domain obviously doesn't Jan 11 18:18:45 there is a list of Free Software compatible license Jan 11 18:18:46 s Jan 11 18:19:01 and I can see how BSD should be on that list Jan 11 18:19:14 but I wouldn't think it would be listed as Free Software as the FSF defines it Jan 11 18:19:29 because you can add to it, close the source & distribute the binary Jan 11 18:19:30 FSF lists both original and the modified BSD licenses as free Jan 11 18:19:31 Free Software compatible != Free Software Jan 11 18:19:37 wurp2, Richard does consider BSD and public domain to be Free Software - he just considers them "less than ideal" because they're not copyleft. The criteria I am referring to are freedoms 0-3 Jan 11 18:20:38 kdean06: reading up on it; stupid fsf web server is slow... Jan 11 18:21:26 hmm, I think I see your point Jan 11 18:21:47 BSD satisfies 3 because as long as the SW you get is under BSD, you can do what freedom 3 sayd Jan 11 18:21:50 wurp2, "Free Software definition" from GNU.org -> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html and FSF's list of Free Software licenses. :) http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/ Jan 11 18:21:52 s/sayd/says/ Jan 11 18:21:52 wurp2 meant: BSD satisfies 3 because as long as the SW you get is under BSD, you can do what freedom 3 says Jan 11 18:22:03 kdean06: that's where I am Jan 11 18:22:42 I agree kdean06, mjr. Thanks for correcting my understanding of it. Jan 11 18:22:50 hi Jan 11 18:23:00 I thunk that Free Software required that it 'stayed free' Jan 11 18:24:02 openmoko: 03sameo * r3816 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros-2.0/ (atheros_2_0_function.patch atheros_2_0_hcd.patch): Jan 11 18:24:02 openmoko: ar6k-atheros-2.0: Disable scan filtering. Jan 11 18:24:02 openmoko: We can now get the scan results without calling funky ioctls. Jan 11 18:24:12 Well, it sort of does... But it sort of doesn't. Copyright law says you can't change the license of a work unless you own it so even a BSD library used in Windows is still Free Software - but the derivative work is not. The BSD library is still Free and always will be. Jan 11 18:24:26 in which case, though, public domain is also Free Software, assuming that you can get access to the source Jan 11 18:24:33 It is. :) Jan 11 18:24:47 Or... Jan 11 18:25:13 The FSF officially says it's not Free or non-free since it's totally unlicensed. It is functionally free. Jan 11 18:25:19 (and GPL compatible. :) ) Jan 11 18:25:24 kdean06: Are you saying that I can't provide a way for licensees to re-license my software in its license? Jan 11 18:25:31 'cause that sounds wrong to me Jan 11 18:25:35 wurp2, You can, since you own it. :) Jan 11 18:25:51 I thought essentially that BSD did just that Jan 11 18:25:53 But you can't relicense someone elses work unless they specifically license you that right. Jan 11 18:25:59 surely Jan 11 18:26:51 lemme go read the BSD license :-) Jan 11 18:26:51 BSD license does not allow relicensing since you must ALWAYS attribute the author's contribution - but the license does NOT prohibit your from using the application without providing your modified sources. Jan 11 18:29:01 The GPL "simplifies" things by making "all this software one license", the GPL. BSD works can be used in a proprietary application in which case the application is both (say) EULA + BSD since the BSD does not prohibit distribution without sources. :P The shortest answer is "BSD lets you use it how you want" as long as you always recognize that it's not "your" work. Jan 11 18:30:09 But I suppose this discussion is probably off-topic here. :P Jan 11 18:38:59 * RayDar wonders how to figure out what uboot he is using. Jan 11 18:50:31 re Jan 11 18:53:15 re Jan 11 18:53:27 * RayDar tries to dial Jan 11 18:58:46 i've just received my neo and i'm setting up to flash it with the december 01 stuff on the wiki Jan 11 18:58:55 apparently, my bootloader is r8 and these are r9 Jan 11 18:59:24 this probably means i have to flash i-boot as well? Jan 11 18:59:27 er, u-boot Jan 11 19:02:01 idioterna: I also just got my phone. How did you figure out the u-boot version? Jan 11 19:02:27 hold the AUX button and power it on by holding the power button Jan 11 19:02:41 and it powers up into the boot menu Jan 11 19:02:55 it displays the u-boot version at the top Jan 11 19:03:29 according to the wiki at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko it's wrong to flash a mismatching version Jan 11 19:04:04 do Jan 11 19:04:06 doh Jan 11 19:04:24 idioterna: True, but the uboot version you get with the phone is almost certainly compatible with any recent rootfs and kernel Jan 11 19:04:37 and it's dangerous to flash your uboot if you don't have a debug board Jan 11 19:05:00 yeah, that's what i wanted to ask Jan 11 19:05:10 I got my phone 2 weeks ago, and I just flashed the latest kernel & rootfs I could find, and it works fine Jan 11 19:05:18 if i flash this recent root and kernel i can still flash a different version Jan 11 19:05:24 Worst case, you flash the kernel & rootfs on there and it doesn't work Jan 11 19:05:38 and if i bugger up i-boot, i'll need to find somebody with a debug board? Jan 11 19:05:54 idioterna: right Jan 11 19:06:00 so you 'nand clean rootfs' (never nand clean w/o an argument) and install another kernel & rootfs Jan 11 19:06:02 yeah, makes sense, just wanted to confirm that Jan 11 19:06:16 idioterna: u-boot tends to not change much, the interfaces are standard so an old u-boot should be still usable with new kernel/rootfs Jan 11 19:06:48 newer U-boot(after a certain version) contain the GSM terminal though Jan 11 19:07:13 newer versions for sure have many things fixed, but they are not things you can't live without Jan 11 19:08:04 where should i look for a recent build? Jan 11 19:08:27 wiki references http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/neo1973/ Jan 11 19:09:30 official daily snapshots are not beign built for u-boot, there are unofficial ones at buildhost.automated.it Jan 11 19:10:55 idioterna: Wow, I cannot match the U-Boot numbers shown on my boot screen to anything at http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Jan 11 19:11:31 apparently you don't really have to Jan 11 19:13:21 The warnings about a "matched" u-boot probably refer to the machine type, e.g. making sure you use one that says "gta01bv4" if that's the model of phone that you have Jan 11 19:13:48 KrisAbsinthe: which is actually unusable Jan 11 19:13:52 idioterna: But I am wondering if I should update the u-boot. Since I cannot match up the numbers, I cannot tell whether it is newer or not. Jan 11 19:14:13 you shouldn't and don't really need to Jan 11 19:14:29 RayDar: part of the version string should be the date Jan 11 19:14:32 if you mess up flashin kernel or rootfs, you can always recover by clearing nand kernel and nand root-fs Jan 11 19:14:55 but if you mess up u-boot, you're going to need the debug board to recover Jan 11 19:15:20 I have debug board. I am sure it will be fun figuring out how to use it. Jan 11 19:15:27 oh :) Jan 11 19:15:41 I have an unofficial build at http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/u-boot/ that I recommend for anyone with a debug board (as insurance - I don't expect people to have problems) Jan 11 19:16:26 * balrog-kun got safely through numerous u-boot updates without a debug board but with a simple testing if the u-boot binary runs ok in qemu before flashing to hardware Jan 11 19:17:00 which was only potentially useful because it always did run Jan 11 19:17:06 I wonder which bv I have Jan 11 19:17:06 when you flash u-boot, do you also have to clear nand u-boot first? Jan 11 19:17:21 idioterna: with dfu-util nope Jan 11 19:17:37 ok Jan 11 19:18:49 idioterna: The date on my u-boot (just got the phone) is 19-May-2007. Seems kinda old. That's probably why the dialer doesn't work. Jan 11 19:19:18 yep, mine's the same Jan 11 19:19:37 no, u-boot doesn't touch the modem, dialer not working can't be related to u-boot Jan 11 19:20:05 oh Jan 11 19:20:31 well then. Jan 11 19:21:21 I thought I read somewhere that newer u-boots could make phone calls and older ones couldn't Jan 11 19:22:21 RayDar: i think newer rootfs or newer dialer/gsmd? Jan 11 19:22:37 really the connection between dialer and u-boot if there is any is not a traightforward one Jan 11 19:23:03 I was just thinking... Is there a "debug board" locater? :) I didn't get the debug board because I didn't realize that I couldn't recover from failed u-boot flashes without it, so I was wondering where the 'nearest' one was in the event of rare emergencies. Jan 11 19:23:49 you can try at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups :) Jan 11 19:24:18 Oh, awesome. Duh. Jan 11 19:24:20 Thanks. Jan 11 19:24:57 At one point there was a change to the u-boot environment that helped GSM - removing the "console=ttyACM0,115200" statement from the kernel boot parameters. I don't know if that's still required. Jan 11 19:26:06 idioterna, RayDar: a few days ago someone was having dialer problems in this chat room Jan 11 19:26:23 You might look in the history and see if you can find the rootfs they switched to that fixed it for them Jan 11 19:26:27 mmontour: yeah, but if you update only u-boot the environment stays Jan 11 19:26:31 I'm pretty sure they said which one worked Jan 11 19:26:52 i'm about to flash the latest scaredycat images Jan 11 19:27:20 Yeah, it's quick enough that there's not much reason to avoid just trying them Jan 11 19:27:29 idioterna: I flashed the latest scaredycat images yesterday. They are much more feature filled than the ones that came with it. Jan 11 19:27:31 Yes, but that's the only u-boot/dialer connection I can think of. Jan 11 19:27:38 idioterna: But, the dialer doesn't seem to work. Jan 11 19:28:18 The other thing is that if you have a really old u-boot and forget the "nand erase rootfs" before flashing a new image, stuff can break in strange ways Jan 11 19:28:31 wurp2: Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't been on here a few days. Jan 11 19:29:10 RayDar: with scaredycat images? Jan 11 19:29:38 mmontour: Are you saying that some newer uboot eliminated the need to nand erase rootfs ? Jan 11 19:29:51 wurp2: the wiki says so, too Jan 11 19:29:59 cool! Jan 11 19:29:59 regarding erasing nand Jan 11 19:30:18 idioterna: Yeah, I installed the 06-Jan Scaredycat stuff and my dialer doesn't work. Jan 11 19:31:05 Yes, newer u-boots do not require the "nand erase rootfs" command. Jan 11 19:31:18 where do i get a recent but well tested u-boot? Jan 11 19:31:23 Grrrr, I cannot try manual dialing because neither cu nor socat is installed. Jan 11 19:31:36 RayDar: the aren't more feature filled than current official images, but are more feature filled than any 8 months old images Jan 11 19:32:20 where are current official images? Jan 11 19:32:34 at downloads.openmoko.org? Jan 11 19:32:52 buildhost.o.o/daily/ or similar Jan 11 19:33:18 k, thanx, let me try those Jan 11 19:33:58 the wiki directed me to http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D (11-November images) but the scaredycat images I installed had more features. Jan 11 19:34:09 but of course, I have yet to see it make a call Jan 11 19:34:36 hmm, there's a gta02 image as well Jan 11 19:35:23 i suppose none of you like questions about it, but... is it likely gta02 will support 3G or edge? Jan 11 19:35:33 RayDar: make sure you aren't in an area with only 850-MHz coverage, and check that you have a supported SIM (see bug #666) Jan 11 19:35:39 idioterna, it is sure not to Jan 11 19:35:50 oh Jan 11 19:36:07 well, i guess the wifi will do as well Jan 11 19:37:33 what is the difference between OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080111-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 and openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 ? Jan 11 19:37:39 RayDar: can't you use lib-gsmdtool? Jan 11 19:39:39 idioterna: Good question Jan 11 19:40:06 idioterna: I too would like to know. The last one I flashed didn't have the glibc stuff in it. Jan 11 19:40:21 well the one with "glibc" in the filename is bound to have it :) Jan 11 19:42:17 one is a symlink Jan 11 19:42:19 idioterna: What I meant was that last time, (when I flashed scaredycat), I used a filename that didn't include glibc. I don't know what the differences is between the two images or which I should use. Jan 11 19:42:39 no difference. openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 just links to the latest Jan 11 19:43:01 aha, thanks Jan 11 19:43:17 this explains exactly the same bytesize Jan 11 19:45:06 RayDar: for manual dailing, try libgsmd-tool Jan 11 19:45:40 Oh, and if you just got a neo, read http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/openmoko.html Jan 11 19:45:58 Some of it is out of date, but it's the only user manual type thing I've seen Jan 11 19:46:41 wurp2: Thanks. I did just get it. libgsmd-tool just hangs after saying that the program is free. Jan 11 19:48:35 I'll try flashing the two latest files from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ Jan 11 19:48:39 maybe that will do the trick. Jan 11 19:51:57 who knows Jan 11 19:52:20 It would be nice to verify that the GSM on this new phone works. Jan 11 19:52:55 btw, what do i do with modules? Jan 11 19:53:04 i flashed the kernel, where do i put modules? Jan 11 19:53:22 idioterna: I think I read somewhere that you don't need to do anything with them.... but I am SuperNewbie Jan 11 19:53:25 The rootfs image should have all of the required modules already. Jan 11 19:53:45 makes sense Jan 11 19:53:52 why the separate tarball? Jan 11 19:54:31 Probably historical reasons. Jan 11 19:55:54 RayDar: libgsmd-tool is an interactive tool Jan 11 19:56:01 It will hang waiting for user input Jan 11 19:57:28 wurp2: Oh. There was no prompt. I guess I should type a question mark. I will try that after this flash. Jan 11 19:57:42 RayDar: see http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/Command_Line0.html Jan 11 19:57:54 yeah, it's misleading Jan 11 20:00:08 wurp2: Also, the instructions say to turn off the gsmd however if it is off, libgsmd-tool errors saying that it cannot connect to the gsmd Jan 11 20:01:07 where do i get a recent official u-boot? Jan 11 20:01:16 idioterna: Good question. Jan 11 20:02:24 mmontour mentioned his unofficial uboot Jan 11 20:02:32 idioterna: no such thing as far as I know. I think there was one as part of the November snapshot (2007.11) but it has bugs Jan 11 20:03:07 i'm now flashing latest official stuff over the may 19 2007 u-boot Jan 11 20:03:40 idioterna: U and I are in the same boat. Jan 11 20:03:53 except for the debug board :) Jan 11 20:03:54 fwiw, i think we can soon release a new stable u-boot Jan 11 20:04:26 mickeyl: is a recent build of that code available? Jan 11 20:04:42 i can do one for you Jan 11 20:04:46 but it'll be untested Jan 11 20:04:49 neat, someone from the coreteam! Jan 11 20:04:50 i have no time to reflash uboot atm. Jan 11 20:05:17 yeah, i don't have the debug board so Jan 11 20:05:22 i'll ask RayDar to test it for me :) Jan 11 20:05:30 OK, newest kernel and rootfs... same old 19-May uboot..... let's see what happens Jan 11 20:05:53 mickeyl: if it won't take too much time, i'd appreciate it Jan 11 20:05:59 of your time, i mean Jan 11 20:06:31 no worries, should not take longer than 5 min Jan 11 20:06:39 mickeyl: the current u-boot-openmoko_svn.bb is good except for #799, the boot-from-SD crash. Jan 11 20:07:33 The patch I attached to that bug gives me 100% reliable boots from SD, but I am reluctant to call it a "fix" since I never found what was wrong with the original code. Jan 11 20:07:59 oh Jan 11 20:08:02 !ombug 799 Jan 11 20:08:03 * * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Jan 11 20:08:04 * * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards Jan 11 20:08:05 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799 Jan 11 20:08:36 fun patch Jan 11 20:08:47 do i need to reflash kernel and fs if i flash u-boot ? Jan 11 20:08:57 not necessary Jan 11 20:09:09 different partition Jan 11 20:11:08 i guess i should apply this patch Jan 11 20:11:13 Obri: ping Jan 11 20:11:18 Obri: does it fix it for you as well? Jan 11 20:12:05 mmontour: thx Jan 11 20:13:22 Hmmmm, libgsmd-tool reports "Netreg registration denied" after a AT+COPS command Jan 11 20:15:36 BTW, there is a minor cosmetic issue with the newest u-boots - the splash screen is somewhat distorted because a byte-swap video setting was changed. This can be resolved by flashing a new splashscreen and updating the u-boot environment. Jan 11 20:15:47 yea Jan 11 20:15:54 we swapped native byte order Jan 11 20:16:14 updateing the enviroment? Jan 11 20:17:20 From the post I saw on the u-boot list, the new image doesn't compress as well and overflowed the size specified in the "nand read" command (although it still fits easily into the splash partition) Jan 11 20:17:39 oh, really? Jan 11 20:17:40 that's nasty Jan 11 20:18:01 unfortunately we can't distribute environments Jan 11 20:18:32 neither can we access them safely from within linux Jan 11 20:18:51 Quoting: "Since the new image now compresses slightly worse, we also need to increase the read size in the "splashimage" command (from 0x5000 to 0x5100)" Jan 11 20:19:50 oops, so much for my attention when reading werner's mails Jan 11 20:19:52 *g* Jan 11 20:20:57 http://buildhost.vanille.de/fic-gta01/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1%2bgit20080111%2bsvnr3798-r0.bin Jan 11 20:21:06 bleeding edge Jan 11 20:21:08 handle with care Jan 11 20:21:17 thanks Jan 11 20:21:20 np Jan 11 20:22:13 i'll wait for someone with a debug board to confirm it works Jan 11 20:22:26 RayDar: please? :) Jan 11 20:22:37 greetings all Jan 11 20:23:06 It doesn't look that bad with the old splashimage. You could probably distribute the new u-boot version with manual instructions for those who want to fix their own devices (in keeping with the "developer preview" theme of GTA01) Jan 11 20:23:15 idioterna: I will try it after I confirm that my GSM works. I keep getting "Netreg registration denied" Jan 11 20:23:43 i confirm that the dialer doesn't work for me with the latest official daily build with the may 19 2007 u-boot Jan 11 20:23:43 aha Jan 11 20:23:43 well mine registered alright but outgoing call doesn't get through Jan 11 20:23:43 i'll try calling in Jan 11 20:24:42 netreg denied sounds dialer has still problems with PIN request? Jan 11 20:24:49 +like Jan 11 20:26:11 mickeyl: I am using libgsmd-tool Jan 11 20:26:23 dialin worked halfway Jan 11 20:26:52 the phone rang but after i answered it just waited and the calling phone kept playing the ringing tone Jan 11 20:29:24 RayDar: oh Jan 11 20:29:32 RayDar: did it ask you for a PIN? Jan 11 20:29:46 mickeyl: Nope Jan 11 20:29:55 mickeyl: AFAIK, there is no pin on the SIM. Jan 11 20:31:09 oh Jan 11 20:31:18 registration denied even without a PIN Jan 11 20:31:19 that's odd Jan 11 20:31:33 can there be no pin? (ah well, I dunno) Jan 11 20:31:40 well Jan 11 20:31:51 to be safe, try it manually Jan 11 20:31:55 yes Jan 11 20:31:56 kill gsmd Jan 11 20:32:03 power on modem Jan 11 20:32:06 and speak AT Jan 11 20:32:09 the sim card can be configured not to require a pin Jan 11 20:32:53 is it possible the dialer would work with a newer u-boot? probably not, right? Jan 11 20:33:12 u-boot should have no effect whatsoever on the modem Jan 11 20:33:20 yeah Jan 11 20:34:02 how to build u-boot-openmoko_svn using MokoMakefile ? :S Jan 11 20:35:17 I have been speaking AT via libgsmd-tool Jan 11 20:35:54 NineX cd build Jan 11 20:36:07 . ../setup-env Jan 11 20:36:34 bitbake -b u-boot-openmoko_svn Jan 11 20:36:41 done Jan 11 20:36:44 what next? Jan 11 20:37:11 danm lags Jan 11 20:37:27 well.. your new uboot is where it always is.. build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/ Jan 11 20:37:38 eh neo1973 at the end Jan 11 20:37:50 roh: thx Jan 11 20:38:10 me will test new uboot wit mmontour patch with workaround Jan 11 20:38:22 you have a debugboard? Jan 11 20:38:57 OMG this is frustrating Jan 11 20:39:04 roh: sure Jan 11 20:39:23 NineX :) Jan 11 20:39:55 roh: and some expirience with unbricking my neo so don't worry Jan 11 20:40:16 RayDar what is? Jan 11 20:40:55 roh: I am trying to dial (currently using libgsmd-tool) Jan 11 20:46:38 fuck Jan 11 20:46:49 mmontour: can you create corect patch? Jan 11 20:48:14 NineX: what's the problem? Jan 11 20:48:24 * RayDar blushes Jan 11 20:48:39 It was that I didn't have my SIM locked in. Jan 11 20:49:43 er. Jan 11 20:50:00 there are right-left arrows under my signal strength icon Jan 11 20:50:08 doesn't that mean i'm connected to GPRS? Jan 11 20:51:47 Yipee! I just made a call! Jan 11 20:51:53 my first call! Jan 11 20:52:06 did it work? Jan 11 20:52:18 mine doesn't seem to work Jan 11 20:52:38 roh: have you guys considered an overlay read-write filesystem over a read-only boot filesystem to improve the boot times (re the discussion on openmoko-kernel to get the boot to 20s) ? Jan 11 20:52:47 idioterna: Yes. I talked with the person at the other end. There was a slight echo, but that might not be the phone. Jan 11 20:53:17 i've now sent me an sms Jan 11 20:53:37 but the phone just popped up "connected to network yaddayadda" Jan 11 20:53:55 OpenWrt does it, and it works really well - they boot from read-only squashfs, and have a tmpfs overlay during boot. Then after the jffs2 has finally mounted in the background, it is swapped with the tmpfs. Jan 11 20:53:59 RayDar, if you mean echo for the other person, it is the Neo, possibly some mixer tweak needed Jan 11 20:54:34 RayDar: are you willing to test the mickey's u-boot image? Jan 11 20:54:49 LaF0rge, mickey|bbl: has an overlay filesystem been considered and already discounted for increasing boot times? Jan 11 20:55:01 rwhitby i just explained what other embedded distros do. Jan 11 20:55:09 I'm not sure why we want to increase boot time Jan 11 20:55:15 RayDar: if you install a bleeding edge rootfs there is no echo anymore Jan 11 20:55:19 NineX: the patch at http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/u-boot/om799-workaround.patch should work if added to the SRC_URI as "file://om799-workaround.patch;patch=1 \" Jan 11 20:55:24 there is a new alsa state that fixes it Jan 11 20:55:25 ive seen jffs2 /squashfs with overlay at openwrt and seperate with onloy /var writeable at some stb Jan 11 20:55:39 i just tested it some minutes ago Jan 11 20:55:40 s/increasing/decreasing/ Jan 11 20:55:41 rwhitby meant: LaF0rge, mickey|bbl: has an overlay filesystem been considered and already discounted for decreasing boot times? Jan 11 20:56:08 borg_, ooh, no? have to upgrade the state file for test... Jan 11 20:56:36 roh: ok, as long as the idea is in the ring already then I'm happy. Jan 11 20:57:00 (I haven't read all the overnight email yet, and wanted to throw this in before I forgot) Jan 11 20:57:48 mjr: alsa-state_0.1.0-r9 Jan 11 20:57:57 ack Jan 11 20:59:39 rwhitby logfs ubifs and yaffs2 are also still in the ring i think (till they fall due to results of discussions, docs or evaluation) Jan 11 20:59:53 roh: excellent Jan 11 21:00:14 ubifs looks quite nice from the outside.. like jffs2 done right.. do oyu know some platform which uses it already? Jan 11 21:02:08 no, I only know of squashfs/mini_fo overlay Jan 11 21:03:59 I think I blew up the contacts app Jan 11 21:04:42 guys, I made fresh flash with lastest OM build but I have no sound Jan 11 21:04:45 mjr: We both heard an echo. I am not sure which phone was responsible (if any). Jan 11 21:04:58 root@fic-gta01:/media/card$ alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore Jan 11 21:04:58 alsactl: load_state:1327: No soundcards found... Jan 11 21:05:09 what's going on? any ideas? Jan 11 21:06:21 idioterna: I will eventually get to it. Jan 11 21:09:54 * zedstar finally got gprs working from his Neo! Jan 11 21:10:49 RayDar: thanks, just drop a note here so i know it's safe to flash Jan 11 21:10:57 zedstar: Great job! Jan 11 21:11:25 I can't figure out how to read incoming SMSs Jan 11 21:11:43 not tried sms yet :) Jan 11 21:12:01 zdanek: what does "lsmod" show? Does your kernel version match your rootfs modules? Jan 11 21:15:31 mmontour: i got plenty of snd* modules downloaded Jan 11 21:15:53 I installed rootfs and kernel from the same source and date Jan 11 21:16:00 it should match Jan 11 21:19:13 Looks like outgoing SMS's work but darned if I can figure out how to read incoming messages. Jan 11 21:23:19 so, no ideas Jan 11 21:23:29 ok, I'll try other ver Jan 11 21:30:57 ideoterna: I just tested mickeyl's u-boot build. It worked for me booting from NAND flash (but not from the SD card). Jan 11 21:33:27 aha Jan 11 21:37:25 mmontour sdcard booting is broken afaik Jan 11 21:37:37 clearly a regression Jan 11 21:37:52 roh: Not in my builds :-) Jan 11 21:38:33 mmontour oh.. you got a patch for that? Jan 11 21:40:02 See the attachment to ombug #799 Jan 11 21:40:22 dialing works for me, though i do get the echo somebody spoke of earlier Jan 11 21:40:42 but messages just seem to get lost Jan 11 21:40:48 That patch may not apply directly due to path issues, but it's just a 1-line change. Jan 11 21:41:40 btw, how do i change the time? Jan 11 21:42:16 ah, ipkg install ntpdate seems to just work Jan 11 21:42:48 mmontour thats all? the string gets too long? Jan 11 21:42:55 doh Jan 11 21:44:08 roh: I don't know what's wrong with the original code. It looks like it should work, but somehow the stack ends up corrupted. Using the fixed-size buffer works for me, so I think it should be included as a temporary workaround unless/until the real problem is found. Jan 11 21:44:45 i see Jan 11 21:48:45 openmoko: 03laforge * r3817 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-sound.patch: Apply obvious copy+paste fix to gta02 sound driver (Graeme Gregory) Jan 11 21:49:08 idioterna: If you get usb networking going and you ssh into the phone, you can use date "2008-01-11 13:48:58" to set the date Jan 11 21:53:06 roh: How much fun are you having setting up the web store :-D ? Jan 11 21:53:23 mmontour: works for me! :> Jan 11 21:54:19 how do I figure out what bv number I have? Jan 11 21:54:28 NineX: good news - thanks for testing. Jan 11 21:55:15 mmontour i pushed werner.. its on his list now ;) Jan 11 21:56:03 CVirus loads.. this planet is sooo fucked up when it comes to easy stuff like 'pay a bill' or 'ship a package' when it involves more than just 2 points within a zone like eu or us Jan 11 21:56:14 mmontour: n/p but you sholud fix patch on bugzilla in bugzilla path is fs/ext2/ext2fs.c , sholud be like in this link that you send me Jan 11 21:57:02 roh: I get it ... Good luck :-D Jan 11 22:06:54 NineX: I've updated the bugzilla patch Jan 11 22:16:13 zedstar, did you need to do anything not in the wiki to get your GPRS working? Did you need a recent openmoko version or anything? Jan 11 22:19:25 erko: the 'manually using gprs' thing worked for me. Jan 11 22:19:32 erko...well i didnt use the wiki in the end... i found a script...documented just now here: http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/01/11/gprs-connection-with-openmoko/ Jan 11 22:19:36 Though I last ysed it several months ago Jan 11 22:20:40 that was just 2 scripts with a couple of simple edits Jan 11 22:21:24 yes Jan 11 22:21:53 SpeedEvil, k thanks. I haven't been able to connect to tmobile US's wap, yet (although I have got it working with my older ipaq) Jan 11 22:21:59 zedstar, thx for the link Jan 11 22:22:16 you've got the right APN? Jan 11 22:22:35 speedevil: me? Jan 11 22:22:37 SpeedEvil, yep, do I have to stop gsmd or anything else before running ppp? (I have tried both ways) Jan 11 22:23:56 tomorrow i hope to do my first gps micro blog from my local park! Jan 11 22:24:21 I did Jan 11 22:24:27 I don't know if it's needed Jan 11 22:24:40 I'd post my script, but dfu-util ate it when I upgrded. Jan 11 22:24:42 i didnt need to Jan 11 22:25:13 it did fail a couple of times but didnt need to restart gsmd Jan 11 22:26:50 hmm, maybe I just need to retry a few times. Jan 11 22:27:20 zedstar, just to be safe, what version of openmoko are you currently using (when GPRS connected?) Jan 11 22:27:58 well it is one build from mokomakefile route and then ipkg update etc so recent Jan 11 22:28:11 ah ok, thanks Jan 11 22:31:04 * RayDar works on gprs Jan 11 22:33:04 brb Jan 11 22:35:33 well, mine works great, but i have no idea how to receive an SMS Jan 11 22:40:00 idioterna: did you do the new uboot? Jan 11 22:40:21 idioterna: Mine seems to know about incoming SMS's but I cannot read them with the app. Jan 11 22:41:32 idioterna: Everytime I boot it, it says there are more unread SMS messages. Jan 11 22:43:45 Fascinating: the tmobile chatscripts worked once but never again. Jan 11 22:45:04 might be a faq but didn't see it anywhere: how far is the openmoko software from being a basic end-user phone? (e.g., send and receive calls through the gui, simple addressbook, missed calls and receive SMS)? Jan 11 22:45:17 rabble, this far '----------------------------------------' Jan 11 22:45:24 cool, thanks! Jan 11 22:45:30 hehe :) quite far Jan 11 22:45:52 things work sometimes, but AFAIK the biggest issue is still suspend Jan 11 22:46:15 right, so in practice the battery life will be sucky for now? Jan 11 22:46:27 _really_ sucky Jan 11 22:46:31 ;) Jan 11 22:46:34 like blackhole sucky Jan 11 22:47:09 raboof: It has a long ways to go Jan 11 22:47:17 There is actuve work ont he powersaving at the moment Jan 11 22:48:31 not had my neo disconnected from usb much so never noticed but will do now with gprs working....hopefully get a couple of hours Jan 11 22:49:10 there sure is a lot of good progress in the linux mobile space (trolltech, google, openmoko) - openmoko seems by far the most friendly ;0 Jan 11 22:50:48 raboof, indeed, unless you ask about GTA02... then you get kickbanned :) Jan 11 22:50:52 there's a python app for smsing but it requires quite a lot of space Jan 11 22:51:21 i asked about it earlier, and nobody bothered to get rid of me :) Jan 11 22:51:28 * kdean06 chuckles and hopes not to get kicbanned Jan 11 22:51:39 i guess i didn't ask the wrong questions Jan 11 22:51:50 looking forward to jumping on the bandwagon once it's a little further on the way, i'm more of an application programmer, so all the hairy hardware and lowlevel driver stuff is better off in other people's hands :_) Jan 11 22:52:23 it's already amazing work Jan 11 22:52:34 raboof: Yeah, I am in the same boat as you. But then someone went and got me one as an xmas gift. Jan 11 22:53:10 raydar wow they dont wanna speak to u on the phone that means ;) Jan 11 22:53:36 hehe Jan 11 22:53:57 zedstar: Shows what you know. I already spoke to them on the new phone. Jan 11 22:54:17 which packages do you recommend i remove to gain enough space for python? Jan 11 22:56:49 none Jan 11 22:56:52 install it on the SD Jan 11 22:57:01 search the wiki for ipkg-link Jan 11 22:57:11 ah Jan 11 22:57:56 RayDar, I increased the timeout in chatscripts/tmobile from 10 to something big like 200 (even 20 wasn't enough), and I finally got a GPRS connection. Jan 11 22:58:06 woo! Jan 11 22:58:37 erko: Good idea Jan 11 22:58:38 congrats erko Jan 11 22:59:02 erko: When I get a gprs connection, I haven't yet been able to do anything with it. Jan 11 22:59:06 huh? Jan 11 22:59:12 route add default ppp0 Jan 11 22:59:37 echo nameserver 1.2.3.4 >/etc/resolv.conf Jan 11 22:59:46 hehe just rebooted and here come the SMS's that keep piling up Jan 11 23:00:38 boy vi sux Jan 11 23:00:48 i typed poweroff in the shell and i got "angstrom" and an image of a geometric compass Jan 11 23:00:55 RayDar: watch your mouth :) Jan 11 23:02:20 I would need a mirror to watch my mouth Jan 11 23:02:27 idioterna: The truth is painful, often. emacs rules. Jan 11 23:02:58 meh, for small config file edits, I prefer nano Jan 11 23:03:13 vi rules for small file edits Jan 11 23:03:31 assuming you already know all the commands Jan 11 23:03:47 viblows Jan 11 23:03:54 to get proficient with basic vi navigation, I recommend nethack or moria :-) Jan 11 23:03:55 so counterintuitive Jan 11 23:04:07 Everything's on the home key Jan 11 23:04:24 and intuition on anything more complicated than a pencil just means you've used it so much it's second nature Jan 11 23:04:38 vi exists for the same reason bootloaders exist -- so that you can get the *real* stuff installed ;) Jan 11 23:04:40 s/home key/home row/ Jan 11 23:04:49 mwester: Agreed Jan 11 23:04:58 eh, emacs feels pretty damn heavy for file edits Jan 11 23:05:09 I used to use it for my IDE Jan 11 23:05:09 wurp2: hehe - especially for a phone. Jan 11 23:05:16 :-) Jan 11 23:05:19 still, I think nano is a good non-real replacement for vi Jan 11 23:05:36 honestly, I've never used nano Jan 11 23:05:40 We really need a simple, basic notepad-like GUI editor for openmoko, just to make simple edits easier. Jan 11 23:05:52 vi rules for everything, but... Jan 11 23:06:23 call it "mokopad"... Jan 11 23:06:36 vi was made in the days when computers didn't have a DEL key Jan 11 23:06:40 but I dunno why I would want to learn nano when vi has sed built in, and I can type 4cw to edit the next four words, etc. Jan 11 23:06:44 * mwester notes that we could actually port the maemo editor easily... Jan 11 23:07:05 del key is not easy to reach with hands on home row Jan 11 23:07:18 * rwhitby notes that emacs already runs under Angstrom, and therefore OpenMoko ... Jan 11 23:09:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCiVCiku3cM Jan 11 23:09:18 just so you'll learn to respect vi Jan 11 23:10:17 beside the fact it's likely available on your washing machine's firmware Jan 11 23:10:26 ee nano Jan 11 23:10:44 i've been on holiday for too long :/ Jan 11 23:11:11 i suggest reading http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html because it's insightful Jan 11 23:11:33 I am talking about simple config file edits here. Something that is user friendly (and doesn't ignore all those fancy keys on your keyboard) is probably the way to go. Jan 11 23:11:51 http://www.bemroses.net/images/curves.jpg Jan 11 23:12:02 Hmmmm. I wonder if I need to do the proxy server thing. Jan 11 23:12:08 I wonder if I can. Jan 11 23:12:17 yeah, i agree, nano would be nice for all the people who can't get the hang of vi Jan 11 23:12:51 Try the "leafpad" ecitor -- it's a very simple GTK+ text editor. About as capable as Notepad. Jan 11 23:12:59 either because they don't edit as much or they already have a favourite editor that does it for them Jan 11 23:13:21 I have made it this far without getting the hang of vi. No time to start now. Jan 11 23:13:34 leafpad is already in OE -- just build & go. Jan 11 23:14:26 i thought so too, for about 10 years, then i decided to learn and i've never looked back in 6 years Jan 11 23:14:40 it's worth every second of the time you invest, if you're a programmer Jan 11 23:14:55 if you're a unix programmer, doubly so. Jan 11 23:15:45 * RayDar disagrees Jan 11 23:16:13 * cb23 agress with RayDar in disagreeing Jan 11 23:16:19 I suspect that I need a better t-mobile plan to actually use the gprs thing. Jan 11 23:16:25 RayDar, got web pages over gprs -- had to use proxy: 216.155.165.50 Jan 11 23:16:35 idioterna: Did you update your uboot? Jan 11 23:16:39 port :8080 for http, port :1080 for SOCKS Jan 11 23:16:45 not yet, but i'm setting up for it Jan 11 23:16:59 erko: Where did you put that proxy command? Jan 11 23:17:11 idioterna: Scary Jan 11 23:17:18 to test with wget: Jan 11 23:17:18 export http_proxy="http://216.155.165.50:8080" Jan 11 23:17:18 wget http://www.google.com Jan 11 23:18:48 erko: That worked. But here is my output: COMVERSEinternal error You do not have access to the site in www.google.com/ Jan 11 23:18:48 why did my splash screens change from openmoko to angstrom? Jan 11 23:19:13 because i did ipkg upgrade? Jan 11 23:19:18 i suppose so :) Jan 11 23:19:32 google is stealiong your phone Jan 11 23:19:33 ipkg update never works for me Jan 11 23:19:37 *stealing Jan 11 23:20:10 erko: I think my plan (pre-paid) doesn't want me to do any Internet. lame really. Jan 11 23:20:14 RayDar: can you ping/resolve hosts outside your home net? Jan 11 23:20:23 oh Jan 11 23:20:31 i'm accessing the net through usb Jan 11 23:20:53 RayDar, ah, ok, I thought maybe you had the wrong APN. I have the cheapest tmobile internet plan ($9/mo? with regular plan) and use wap.voicestream.com as the VPN Jan 11 23:20:59 RayDar: if you are in the US, you are correct -- T-Mo prepaid does not allow data. Jan 11 23:21:17 oops, s/VPN/APN Jan 11 23:22:01 erko: the DNS works but pings don't return Jan 11 23:22:28 quicksand: I have tried to find a US carrier that allows pre-paid Internet. I don't think there is one. Jan 11 23:22:37 RayDar, darn Jan 11 23:23:41 ok, i have to get back to real work, neo could probably replace my other phone soon now that internet works. Jan 11 23:23:42 bye all Jan 11 23:26:45 I have hope that (thanks to Google stirring things up a bit) Verizon's new any-device policy will help things as far as cheap wireless data goes. Jan 11 23:29:29 I'm doubting it Jan 11 23:30:53 RayDar: me too -- I eventually went with T-Mo notwithstanding the lack of data, so at least I would have a working SIM to test stuff with. My regular phone is CDMA (Verizon). Jan 11 23:32:40 On the bright side, the area I'm in (SF Bay) seems to use the 1900 frequency quite a bit, so the lack of 850 isn't too big a deal (at least for my current purposes). If it were my everyday phone, then that would be another matter. Jan 11 23:36:06 It sure is a fancy-pants phone. One day it will be nice. Jan 11 23:38:13 i'd sure like to see a model with 3G support, though Jan 12 00:15:29 mmontour: you should add info that new u-boot with your workaround can successfully autoboot system from nand Jan 12 00:20:10 i think my gsm stopped working after an update Jan 12 00:20:50 cpuinfo_id doesn't seem to exist and init.d/gsmd start fails Jan 12 00:28:15 idioterna: Oh my. That sounds bad. Maybe it's a mismatch. Jan 12 00:28:24 it seems cpuinfo_id was replaced by machine_id that returns lowercased string Jan 12 00:28:45 i've fixed it on my own but i guess it's bound to get overwritten by updates Jan 12 00:29:07 is ipkg upgrade capable of downgrading stuff? Jan 12 00:29:31 idioterna asks a lot of good questions. Jan 12 00:29:48 hehe Jan 12 00:30:13 well if i answer any of them myself, i'll be sure to let you know Jan 12 00:30:38 i've already set everything up for python development and it works great Jan 12 00:30:43 ~freerunner Jan 12 00:37:46 raster, wb :-) Jan 12 00:38:01 well Jan 12 00:38:03 it works now Jan 12 00:38:13 properly, too Jan 12 00:40:16 the package initscripts - 1.0-r104 - /etc/init.d/functions Jan 12 00:40:24 oops Jan 12 00:40:51 :) Jan 12 00:41:02 anyway, this version of initscripts seems to be incompatible with libgsmd - 0.1+svnr3808-r39 Jan 12 00:49:17 has anyone tried to use skype with the openmoko? Jan 12 00:49:42 no, as there's no software available Jan 12 00:49:49 it'd be hard to unless Skype released a binary compatible with the hardware Jan 12 00:49:53 as skype is proprietary Jan 12 00:49:56 Oh yeah Jan 12 00:50:01 but there are other voips Jan 12 00:50:05 lemme see Jan 12 00:50:15 i think there is skype on n810 which is arm too, isn't it? Jan 12 00:50:26 sip Jan 12 00:50:31 some have said they've messed around with sip Jan 12 00:50:42 dunno if integration work has progressed any Jan 12 00:50:52 i've received my sms manually Jan 12 00:51:06 isn't there an event reporting mechanism in gsmd? Jan 12 00:51:19 idioterna: There is Jan 12 00:51:53 yeah, because it pops up "connected to yaddayadda" every time it receives an SMS Jan 12 00:52:06 but it doesn't actually respond to the message properly Jan 12 00:52:09 * mjr would presume sip work to progress more rapidly after gta02, since wlan makes it more useful (even if it is usable also through bt and usbnet) Jan 12 00:54:44 there are at least a couple of OSS sip stacks out there Jan 12 00:54:54 yes there are Jan 12 00:55:04 just lacking integration? Jan 12 00:55:12 mjr: I am thinking sip through gprs Jan 12 00:55:13 basically yes Jan 12 00:55:27 i think mjr is right... usability is limited with bluetooth/usb network connectivity Jan 12 00:55:29 there was somebody going to work on gsmd integration, dunno if he's done anything Jan 12 00:55:44 RayDar, which will give you crappy calls Jan 12 00:55:52 with wifi, you'd get a cheap headset Jan 12 00:55:58 gprs is likely quite expensive Jan 12 00:56:07 and the latency kills you Jan 12 00:56:17 depends on where you live, here data plans are cheap Jan 12 00:56:25 latency still kills you. Jan 12 00:56:30 but the latency _will_ kill Jan 12 00:56:38 as said, crappy calls Jan 12 00:56:42 It's adequate for push-talk Jan 12 00:56:46 300ms is the most that users will tolerate Jan 12 00:56:51 here gprs is quite expensive, but 3G data is much cheaper Jan 12 00:56:52 mjr: yeah, probably but free crappy calls if you get an unlimited data only plan ($29/month) Jan 12 00:56:53 (studies, etc) Jan 12 00:56:57 data transfer rates as well depending on how close you are to the tower Jan 12 00:57:01 and it has much less latency Jan 12 00:57:05 and what codec you use Jan 12 00:57:20 RayDar, to the extent that you'll probably rather not call. Jan 12 00:57:43 which makes it even cheaper as you save time AND money :) Jan 12 00:57:54 StealthCP: I'd disagree somewhat. Jan 12 00:57:57 Stephmw: Jan 12 00:58:05 ha my neo are working as gprs router Jan 12 00:58:12 mjr: I hardly ever talk on my phone anyways. Jan 12 00:58:16 Stephmw: I think that push-talk mode could be a 'voice SMS' maybe Jan 12 00:58:18 An interesting idea. Jan 12 00:58:29 RayDar, great, so don't bother with the voip/gprs idea Jan 12 00:58:40 SpeedEvil, yeah, that's sane Jan 12 00:59:16 SpeedEvil: 300ms for a 2-way conversation ;) Jan 12 00:59:23 SpeedEvil: one-way soundbites... well Jan 12 00:59:56 Stephmw, it's useful for stuff, certainly not for all uses, but most of all feasible. Jan 12 01:00:02 mjr: The problem is that I would like to use my phone for a lot of data and a small amount of voice. There aren't any reasonably priced plans for that. The $29/month with unlimited data and shitty voip->gprs might be just the ticket. Jan 12 01:00:11 mjr: At T-Mobile I mean. Jan 12 01:00:16 RayDar, yes well, just forget it Jan 12 01:00:46 I mean really, low bandwidth, high latency and no quality of service is a _fucking bad_ combo Jan 12 01:02:04 But it would beat paying $40 extra per month for something I seldom use...... maybe Jan 12 01:02:27 the wiki says "receive SMS" is a feature missing from libgsmd-tool Jan 12 01:02:29 (generally, about sip, it'd be nice if whoever got around to it used gnu ccrtp or something else with zrtp support for the streaming) Jan 12 01:02:46 RayDar, what, you have to pay $40 a month to be able to make calls?!? Jan 12 01:02:53 oh yeah, this was America... Jan 12 01:03:19 Our phone/data plans suck quite roundly in the US. Jan 12 01:03:33 Not as badly as Australia, which has no flat rate data plans ... Jan 12 01:03:48 well, I see your desire for voip over gprs, but it's still not a good idea Jan 12 01:03:49 I would love to see Google buy the some spectrum and really shake things up. Jan 12 01:04:15 * mjr pays around 2 euros for his base gsm service and 10 for unlimited 384k-capped data Jan 12 01:04:36 state: EVENT: Incoming SMS stored at location 5 Jan 12 01:04:41 of course, not including any of those customer-screwing "minutes" or smses Jan 12 01:04:46 mjr has a schweet plan Jan 12 01:05:08 where did this come from? Jan 12 01:05:24 the incoming SMS message i mean? Jan 12 01:05:27 o, polz Jan 12 01:05:44 idioterna: the world. Jan 12 01:05:48 idioterna: what brings you here ? Jan 12 01:05:53 idioterna: it's what your phone is connected to. Jan 12 01:06:09 polz: i got me a grampa frost present :) Jan 12 01:06:24 SpeedEvil: yeah but i'd like this to crop up in a gui Jan 12 01:06:26 idioterna: hehe, is it a Neo 1973 ? Jan 12 01:06:36 polz: mhm Jan 12 01:06:38 * RayDar sees that he just received a "Postcard" from some .ru site. No chance of that being a trojan. Jan 12 01:06:43 idioterna: didn't I _tell_ you it sucks as a phone ? Jan 12 01:06:59 I mean.. you saw it discharge before the PC, didn't you ? Jan 12 01:07:13 serves you right ;) Jan 12 01:07:28 polz: my hideous plan is to use it as a GSM modem until i can find some docs on it Jan 12 01:07:51 like how gsmd communicates with the rest of the software Jan 12 01:07:53 I think there's plenty of docs in the wiki Jan 12 01:08:03 Is there lightning outside your window as you concoct your hideous plan? Jan 12 01:08:12 oh, so you intend to use openmoko, not qtopia ? Jan 12 01:08:25 yes Jan 12 01:08:34 It could be nice one day. Jan 12 01:08:34 for now. Jan 12 01:08:37 RayDar: there are communist red elves, too Jan 12 01:09:18 idioterna: I think you're supposed to use phonekit to communicate with the modem these days Jan 12 01:09:21 whispering conspiracies and shuffling small red books Jan 12 01:09:35 idioterna: that has a nice little dcop interface Jan 12 01:09:44 ** (process:1265): WARNING **: Failed to make a connection to the session bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Jan 12 01:10:06 openmoko's not running dcop Jan 12 01:10:26 but it is running dbus Jan 12 01:10:50 sorry, I'm a bit sleepy Jan 12 01:10:53 I meant dbus Jan 12 01:11:20 ah Jan 12 01:11:36 idioterna: you have to export some env. vars to connect to DBUS Jan 12 01:11:44 but I've forgoten which ones Jan 12 01:11:56 * RayDar sets the countdown timer on his good phone Jan 12 01:12:14 no docs on phone-kit in the wiki Jan 12 01:12:52 btw, which version of openmoko should I download if I want to be able to send and receive SMSs without using a terminal ? Jan 12 01:12:52 /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket, haha Jan 12 01:15:07 must... get... sleep Jan 12 02:05:10  Jan 12 02:06:23 linux_, this is no utf8 isn't it? Jan 12 02:35:27 It can't play mp3's? Jan 12 02:35:28 ! Jan 12 02:37:01 RayDar, mpg123? Jan 12 02:37:31 I read something somewhere saying that it couldn't play mp3's yet due to licensing problems. Jan 12 02:38:10 yes. also, you cant watch dvd's on your linux box due to copyright issues ;( Jan 12 02:38:17 s/;(/;)/ Jan 12 02:38:35 you can in most of europe Jan 12 02:39:16 Hehe. I guess my home theater is in violation then. Jan 12 02:39:21 are there any examples of event-driven apps for openmoko? Jan 12 02:39:38 * RayDar wonders how long until BlueRay encryption is truly cracked. Jan 12 02:40:56 I won't get BlueRay until it is hacked/cracked Jan 12 02:49:45 I thought it mostly was? Jan 12 02:54:37 summatusmentis: Last I heard, they cracked some key but the publishers can "revoke" it and new discs won't use it and are therefore still encrypted. Jan 12 02:56:09 RayDar: my understanding was that disks using that key were susceptible, but publishers could change the key on upcoming disks **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 12 02:59:57 2008