**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 14 02:59:56 2008 Jan 14 03:50:16 I've seen a ton of "shells" for the Neo in it's various stages of life. Is there any way (other than building my own) to get some of them? Being sold from FIC, third party, et cetera? Jan 14 04:00:27 OK, I actually logged in to see wtf was up with the latest release. I've been putting off buying a new cell for about six months. December came and went... I will check back sometime after March 1st. Very effective topic on the channel. Jan 14 04:51:18 hi, I've just upgraded OM using the daily ipkg feed and now my OM just cycles with an error like adc_read ... Jan 14 04:51:32 I was using a snapshot from late 2007 prior Jan 14 04:52:10 whenever the last official one was, 2007.08 ? but I had done an ipkg update/upgrade prior to updating to the daily feed. Any clues? Jan 14 04:52:21 do I need to update my kernel or rootfs snapshot? Jan 14 04:56:26 I'm getting this cycling through on the screen: Jan 14 04:56:27 Jan 5 06:02:59 fic-gta01 user.warn kernel: adc_read: returning 719 0 Jan 14 04:56:27 Jan 5 06:02:59 fic-gta01 user.warn kernel: adc_read: entering (pcf=c072d800, channel=0, data2=00000000) Jan 14 04:56:27 Jan 5 06:02:59 fic-gta01 user.warn kernel: pcf50606_irq: entering(irq=53, pcf=c072d800): scheduling work Jan 14 04:56:27 Jan 5 06:02:59 fic-gta01 user.warn kernel: pcf50606_work: INT1=0x00 INT2=0x00 INT3=0x01:ADCRDY Jan 14 04:57:12 and in /var/log/messages Jan 14 05:17:35 i'm also getting these errors when doing an ipkg upgrade: task-base-usbhost: unsatisfied recommendation for kernel-module-uhci-hcd Jan 14 05:17:45 does this mean I need to reflash the kernel image? Jan 14 05:18:49 hey weird I've now got an Angstrom boot screen :) Jan 14 05:18:52 no more openmoko one Jan 14 05:20:39 but it boots up (which is a bonus) Jan 14 08:12:23 good morning Jan 14 08:13:59 hi, I've just updated with the latest packages from buildhost.openmoko.org/daily and now my SIM card doesn't seem to be registering with the cell network Jan 14 08:14:10 it keeps on saying 'not searching' and does nothing Jan 14 08:14:25 previously it did register with the network Jan 14 08:14:35 I'm also using the 2007.08 snapshot Jan 14 08:16:19 actually just realised I'm using the 2007.11 feed :) Jan 14 08:17:33 btw what's the difference between /daily and /daily-feed Jan 14 08:17:33 ? Jan 14 08:31:31 anyone? Jan 14 08:31:38 hi, I've just updated with the latest packages from buildhost.openmoko.org/daily and now my SIM card doesn't seem to be registering with the cell network Jan 14 08:31:42 it keeps on saying 'not searching' and does nothing Jan 14 08:36:37 morning Jan 14 08:41:22 meep Jan 14 08:44:43 hi Jan 14 08:44:59 ScaredyCat: are you aware of any gsmd issues in the latest ipkg packages? Jan 14 08:45:07 can't seem to get my GSM card to be registered by the network Jan 14 08:45:39 ScaredyCat: there seems to be a patch here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=317&action=view but unsure if this is the fix Jan 14 08:45:42 bug is still open, though Jan 14 08:46:44 ScaredyCat: this is also my kernel version: Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Sun Jan 13 04:09:41 UTC 2008 armv4tl unknown Jan 14 08:46:47 unsure how recent this is Jan 14 08:48:33 errm Jan 14 08:48:44 where did you get the kernel etc Jan 14 08:48:53 I use mine :) Jan 14 08:49:07 http://buildhost.automated.it/ Jan 14 08:49:13 buildhost.openmoko.org Jan 14 08:49:14 :) Jan 14 08:49:36 I can make the changes for the ipkg feeds if need be Jan 14 08:50:15 ScaredyCat: does your gsmd work (i.e. for your ipkg feeds)? Jan 14 08:50:38 seems to be fine for me both in the uk and .nl Jan 14 08:51:08 ok Jan 14 08:51:21 I build the bleeding edge stuff... Jan 14 08:51:35 ScaredyCat: so if I want to update to your packages (I'm using the /daily feed at the moment) do I just change all my ipkg feeds and do an ipkg update && ipkg upgrade? Jan 14 08:51:37 iirc the stuff in openmoko builds is 'safe' Jan 14 08:51:43 k Jan 14 08:52:12 * duffyd goes off to have a look Jan 14 08:52:45 cd /etc/ipkg Jan 14 08:52:45 wget http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/scaredycat.conf Jan 14 08:52:45 ipkg update Jan 14 08:52:50 cd /etc/ipkg Jan 14 08:52:50 wget http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/scaredycat.conf Jan 14 08:52:50 ipkg update Jan 14 08:52:54 oops sorry Jan 14 08:53:13 that's what ou wnt to do to add my repo Jan 14 08:53:25 oh that's easy :) Jan 14 08:53:26 thanks Jan 14 08:54:09 make sure your kernel matches your modules... Jan 14 08:54:11 I'm really starting to like this ipkg stuff :) Jan 14 08:54:18 hehe Jan 14 08:54:20 oh, ok - how do I do that? Jan 14 08:54:27 brb - incomming delivery Jan 14 08:54:30 k Jan 14 08:57:43 look at the image you install (rootfs) and install the kernel that was built at the same time Jan 14 08:58:23 ScaredyCat: yeah, thought you were talking about the ipkgs Jan 14 08:58:39 I was under the impression you could update the kernel now with ipkgs? Jan 14 08:59:13 I've not done that, but that's because I like to test my builds Jan 14 08:59:26 ok Jan 14 08:59:26 so I build and flash them Jan 14 08:59:34 rathe than upgrade.. Jan 14 08:59:41 I'm just going to do a ipkg upgrade (and see what happens) Jan 14 08:59:47 call me crazy ;) Jan 14 08:59:50 lol Jan 14 09:36:02 ScaredyCat: GSM works on your ipkg repo!!!!! Jan 14 09:36:06 ScaredyCat: thanks a lot! Jan 14 09:41:00 why is the messages app so flakey :( Jan 14 09:55:08 :) Jan 14 10:00:30 ScaredyCat: how's your messages app? Jan 14 10:11:53 dunno, haven't tried it myself... don't really sms people Jan 14 10:12:29 ok Jan 14 10:12:35 mine doesn't even open Jan 14 10:12:43 I can make phone calls, though Jan 14 10:16:23 mine does open but I have no clue how this works Jan 14 10:16:49 gamin: :) you using ScaredyCat's ipkg feeds? Jan 14 10:17:04 duffyd: no, I'm building myself Jan 14 10:18:28 * duffyd really needs to learn how to do that :) Jan 14 10:20:26 make openmoko-devel-image :) Jan 14 10:20:35 no magic there Jan 14 10:21:56 gamin: can I add that to the testimonials page? Jan 14 10:23:07 rwhitby: it was was meant as compliment! Jan 14 10:23:44 actually I think it *is* magic Jan 14 10:23:48 :o) Jan 14 10:24:09 gamin: I took it as a compliment. Jan 14 10:24:22 that's why I wanted to add it to the testimonials page Jan 14 10:24:26 rwhitby: feel free to add it Jan 14 10:25:44 gamin: really on the OM or pc? Jan 14 10:26:48 duffyd: no sure what you mean, but I build on debian. Am not using the qemu though as I have a neo Jan 14 10:27:08 hi Jan 14 10:28:23 rwhitby: can I switch between update-bleeding-edge and update-makefile, or is that a one-way road? Jan 14 10:28:49 it's one-way until the next time that OM updates the stable server from the bleeding edge server Jan 14 10:29:40 you can also go back if you're prepared to identify a specific monotone revision and edit the makefile to freeze at that revision and then remember to unfreeze once OM updates the stable server. Jan 14 10:30:11 thanks, that helps Jan 14 10:31:21 gamin: oh ic, do the make and then install the image using dfs-util? Jan 14 10:31:36 duffyd: yes Jan 14 10:31:47 works like a charm here Jan 14 10:31:48 rwhitby: 'make freeze mtnrev'? Jan 14 10:32:03 cool Jan 14 10:33:26 duffyd: if you have a decent machine, a couple gigs free hd and a decent internet connection, it works like described on the wiki Jan 14 10:36:12 i have a error when i compile and run for cross arm... Jan 14 10:36:20 the error is-> FATAL: kernel too old Jan 14 10:36:36 my system launch whith a kernel compiled with uclibc chains, but i compile new programs with a diferent Jan 14 11:39:41 is there any info about how to use the agps with the gllin? Jan 14 11:45:19 * mjr got navit to display his position on the neo \o/ Jan 14 13:01:48 openmoko: 03sameo * r3825 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros-2.0/2.6.24/ (7 files): ar6k--atheros-2.0: 2.6.24 patches. Jan 14 13:41:07 ~seen writchie Jan 14 13:41:10 writchie was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 26d 18h 48m 55s ago, saying: 'some 4 band 3g phones are called 3 band gsm 900/1800/1900 with UMTS 2100'. Jan 14 13:41:14 hmm 26 days Jan 14 13:41:18 wow Jan 14 13:41:45 long christmas holiday ;) Jan 14 13:45:45 indeed Jan 14 13:46:06 i wonder whether we can still expect the kernel MUXer from him Jan 14 13:51:24 i think we couldn't from the beginning Jan 14 13:51:29 but i'm a known pessimist Jan 14 13:54:54 hmm really? Jan 14 13:54:57 what made you think so? Jan 14 13:55:10 he sounded pretty senior and confident Jan 14 13:56:59 hmm perhaps the traits of his work style Jan 14 13:57:11 in particular not disclosing the sources, even when asked Jan 14 13:57:50 yes, he does sound senior and confident (but that often indicates vaporware too) Jan 14 13:59:35 but i think it's not a reason to worry, i'm sure Harald will come up with a really good quality driver, probably better than other could make Jan 14 13:59:46 *others Jan 14 14:03:06 optimist... Jan 14 14:03:37 I am pesimist when it comes to gta Jan 14 14:04:02 hrw: well, I do have time, and there's a company wanting to pay me for it. So chances are high I will be working on it. But I'd rather not compare my code quality against somebody I don't know. Jan 14 14:05:01 LaF0rge: its not about your code (which is great) Jan 14 14:05:21 yea, i may be assuming too much Jan 14 14:05:40 hrw: the mux driver is not really anything GTA specific Jan 14 14:07:59 openmoko: 03chris * r3826 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-main.c src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): (log message trimmed) Jan 14 14:07:59 openmoko: * src/sms-main.c: (new_clicked_cb), (main): Jan 14 14:07:59 openmoko: Add a forward button, clear the text view when composing a new Jan 14 14:07:59 openmoko: message Jan 14 14:07:59 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (page_shown), (page_hidden), Jan 14 14:08:03 openmoko: (forward_clicked_cb), (selection_changed_cb), (sms_notes_page_new): Jan 14 14:08:04 openmoko: Add basic forward message functionality (bug #1171) Jan 14 14:20:56 openmoko: 03chris * r3827 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jan 14 14:20:56 openmoko: Patch by Roman Moravcik , bug #1153 Jan 14 14:20:56 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_call_progress): Jan 14 14:20:56 openmoko: Hide talking window when call missed or caller hung up Jan 14 14:20:56 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.h: Jan 14 14:21:00 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_incoming_call), Jan 14 14:21:02 openmoko: (moko_talking_outgoing_call), (moko_talking_accepted_call), Jan 14 15:19:04 openmoko: 03chris * r3828 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jan 14 15:19:04 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (retry_oper_get), Jan 14 15:19:04 openmoko: (retry_opers_get), (retry_get_imsi), (on_network_registered), Jan 14 15:19:04 openmoko: (net_msghandler), (phone_msghandler), (moko_network_init): Jan 14 15:19:04 openmoko: Only retry n amount of times before giving up on getting imsi, Jan 14 15:19:08 openmoko: subscriber number and network number Jan 14 15:19:10 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (moko_sms_send): Jan 14 15:52:07 openmoko: 03chris * r3829 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (8 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jan 14 15:52:07 openmoko: Patch by: Roman Moracvik , bug #1157 Jan 14 15:52:07 openmoko: * configure.ac: Jan 14 15:52:07 openmoko: * src/dialer/Makefile.am: Jan 14 15:52:07 openmoko: Add libjana-gtk to dependencies Jan 14 15:52:08 openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: Jan 14 15:52:11 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_set_clip), Jan 14 15:58:38 Any one from India?? Jan 14 15:58:53 Lifeeth, me Jan 14 16:11:21 hi Jan 14 16:18:32 hello Jan 14 16:18:51 hi Jan 14 16:19:43 Has anyone played around with checking the precision & accuracy of the GPS on the gta01? Jan 14 16:20:35 My casual measurements so far don't look so good - maybe accurate to within 10 meters at best Jan 14 16:20:42 or maybe my expectations were just off Jan 14 16:25:17 wurp2: quite precise here, often ~2m Jan 14 16:25:33 depends on the amount of sats in sight Jan 14 16:25:59 dont complain about gta01 GPS until you use the n810 one :-D Jan 14 16:26:04 in town can be as bad as ~50m Jan 14 16:26:16 XorA: is it bad? Jan 14 16:26:42 probably about 50m out, in countryside Jan 14 16:26:51 you are kidding? Jan 14 16:27:01 are they all that bad? Jan 14 16:27:50 no idea, but its pretty useless for what its meant to be used for thats in car navigation Jan 14 16:28:00 unless your car is a monster truck Jan 14 16:29:32 btw: has anybody got the agps to work with the gllin? Jan 14 16:30:14 there are some options to cut it of, but at least here it does not connect anywhere in order to get any assist data Jan 14 16:30:56 agps or this lto long term orbit stuff? Jan 14 16:32:04 lots of answers... :P Jan 14 16:32:30 spydon: yes, can barley catch up reading... Jan 14 16:33:22 They are writing so fast that I can't see anything of it :P Jan 14 16:36:49 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r34 10/trunk/standards/otapi/ (README org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.xml): otapi: add preliminary interface description for org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS Jan 14 16:39:24 g'day everyone Jan 14 16:39:48 gamin: How are you measuring it? Jan 14 16:40:11 I wrote a little python program to tell me my distance from where I was when the program first got a fix Jan 14 16:40:16 it tells me every 3 seconds Jan 14 16:40:45 and even outside, so far I haven't seen it make its first change in less than ~7 meters Jan 14 16:41:00 and it often tells me I'm 10-15 meters from origin when I walk back to the origin Jan 14 16:41:15 I haven't done any real testing yet, this is just anecdotes from playing with it Jan 14 16:41:58 of course, I may just have a programming error, but that wouldn't explain the distance remaining 0.0 until I get ~7 meters away Jan 14 16:42:52 depends on how many satellites you have aquired i'd assume - are you indoors doing this testing? if so, the resolution might be very low, +/-10m or more Jan 14 16:43:01 outdoors Jan 14 16:43:11 southern latitudes (Tx) Jan 14 16:43:26 s/Tx/Texas/ Jan 14 16:43:27 wurp2 meant: southern latitudes (Texas) Jan 14 16:43:49 I do notice that I often get a fix indoors, which seems contrary to other people's experience Jan 14 16:44:04 Not in my workplace, too much metal, but in houses Jan 14 16:44:10 with a garmin, the best fixes i ever got were in texas, until i experienced waas Jan 14 16:44:34 are you simply taking the WGS84 coordinates and taking the delta over time? or are you using doppler shift velocities, too? (does the OM GPS even support that?) Jan 14 16:44:41 wurp2: I have an app with map display Jan 14 16:45:03 (something like 2 metre; compared to at best 5 metres at home in ireland. again before waas/egnos came on the scene) Jan 14 16:45:08 I am just naively taking lat & long, multiplying lat delta by the cos of the long Jan 14 16:45:19 ok Jan 14 16:45:45 @cjb_ie ... didn't know portable handheld GPS devices support WAAS, even the new ones...? can you confirm? Jan 14 16:45:53 gamin: What is the app? Just something you wrote? Jan 14 16:46:20 umpalumpa: it depends on the chipset Jan 14 16:46:24 wurp2: yep Jan 14 16:46:24 I use navit, and it will always show you as being on the road, which often makes it more 'accurate', but sometimes makes it way off Jan 14 16:46:43 umpalumpa: no - the only thing you get out is NMEA - from the binary driver. Jan 14 16:46:51 wurp2: what we refer to in the trade as 'cheating' :) Jan 14 16:47:03 umpalumpa: a couple of my garmins do it, as does my sirf3 and i think my sirf2 Jan 14 16:47:09 um... i may have too many GPSes. Jan 14 16:47:14 gamin: no - as far as I know with agps Jan 14 16:47:33 wurstwolf: are you doing that indoors? Jan 14 16:47:36 gllin supports AGPS on the neo? Jan 14 16:47:38 rupp: Jan 14 16:47:41 wirp: Jan 14 16:47:45 you Jan 14 16:47:56 SpeedEvil: Nope, the figures I gave were for outdoors Jan 14 16:47:59 wurp2: yes - purportedly - nobodies explained how to do it Jan 14 16:48:17 wurstwolf: I get significantly better than 10m. Jan 14 16:48:21 SpeedEvil: But they were anecdotal... I will do some real tests when I get my neo back from M Shiloh Jan 14 16:48:32 wirp: though that is a 'within a 10m circle' Jan 14 16:48:32 SpeedEvil: but the wiki explains at least how to switch it off ;-) Jan 14 16:51:28 gamin: Do you have any details on the app? Is source avialable somewhere, does it display your position on a map background image, is it python/C/??? Jan 14 16:53:20 hi there. Jan 14 16:53:31 any remarkable news? Jan 14 16:54:28 wurp2: C Jan 14 16:56:33 Oh, which brings me to another question... does anyone have an ipk for pypy or psyco available? Jan 14 16:56:37 I have stopped working over xmas and now I need to get in again. similar to maemo-mapper, uses pixmaps. probability that it will see the light of day: 60%. Jan 14 16:57:07 unless you open the incomplete source now... ;-) Jan 14 16:57:28 wurp2, psyco is i386 only Jan 14 16:57:34 couldn't we add an OpenMoko UI to maemo-mapper? Jan 14 16:57:53 * Sup3rkiddo is seriously thinking of porting psyco to arm Jan 14 16:57:55 there's a bunch of maemo apps which would benefit from an OM ui Jan 14 16:58:05 Sup3rkiddo: You can do emulation to get it to run on ARM Jan 14 16:58:11 Sup3rkiddo: have fun, that's like... a man year of work or so Jan 14 16:58:11 OM UI being GTK? Jan 14 16:58:15 supposedly it's still significantly faster Jan 14 16:58:18 Vegar: at this point of time, yes. Jan 14 16:58:25 mickeyl, :P Jan 14 16:58:44 would it be possible to make a maemo->GTK library? Jan 14 16:58:46 wurp2, it is?...any links?... Jan 14 16:58:53 Sup3rkiddo: Why port psyco rather than pypy... Jan 14 16:58:57 actually, there's not much to port Jan 14 16:59:01 I thunk pypy was supposed to be better Jan 14 16:59:08 remove hildon-special widgets Jan 14 16:59:14 and add some OM widgets instead Jan 14 16:59:15 or at least, there is actual development going on for pypy Jan 14 16:59:22 or don't even do that and try to port hildon to OM Jan 14 16:59:27 would be interesting as well Jan 14 16:59:28 wurp2, psyco is stable than pypy...but yeah, pypy is cool too Jan 14 16:59:35 Sup3rkiddo: Let me look for links re: psyco on arm Jan 14 16:59:44 wurp2, yes, please..thanks Jan 14 17:00:05 Sup3rkiddo: Yeah, I don't have any real experience with pypy, but I've seen good results from psyco Jan 14 17:00:20 I just read on his site that he was working on pypy to the exclusion of psyco Jan 14 17:00:23 Sup3rkiddo, wurp2: pypy should generate LLVM, an there's an arm backend for LLVM Jan 14 17:00:36 http://lca2007.linux.org.au/talk/27.html Jan 14 17:00:39 wurp2, i have had a chat with the psyco creator once...he did suggested me that porting psyco or pypy is mammoth though Jan 14 17:00:51 robtaylor, danke Jan 14 17:01:07 Sup3rkiddo: np Jan 14 17:02:50 robtaylor, Sup3rkiddo: Apparently psyco also supports LLVM: http://psyco.sourceforge.net/psyco-pepm-l.ps.gz Jan 14 17:03:41 that seems to an interesting stuff to make it work on the neo Jan 14 17:03:54 * Sup3rkiddo personally would like a full python UI Jan 14 17:04:25 It really seems to me that it's worth some effort to get a fast high level language going Jan 14 17:04:33 +1 Jan 14 17:04:48 C memory bugs are vicious, and if you can avoid them at least in your app level code, it's a big boon Jan 14 17:05:01 python has the batteries included..anyone claiming perl derserves to die a horrific death Jan 14 17:05:17 mickeyl: maemo-mapper would be nice Jan 14 17:05:43 Well, I still use perl for one liners & quick text processing stuff Jan 14 17:05:44 mickeyl: but one of hardware keys would need to be mapped as menu one or you will have one widget on screen to open meny Jan 14 17:05:58 yea Jan 14 17:06:09 but python for anything 'real', except work related stuff, which is so far all Java :-/ Jan 14 17:06:33 * Sup3rkiddo is a python fanboi but still knows nuts about it Jan 14 17:07:00 Sup3rkiddo: I think the LLVM comment is what I was remembering about running psyco on ARM Jan 14 17:07:23 Sup3rkiddo: just start writing it. Simple code is simple enough that you can just jump in with both feet. Jan 14 17:07:32 Install pygame so you can get some shiny feedback. Jan 14 17:07:39 wurp2, yeah...=) Jan 14 17:08:08 sadly onboard flash isnt enough in gta02, Jan 14 17:08:21 I am not really expert... I built www.moochmuch.com on TurboGears, a python framework Jan 14 17:08:52 and I've built some fun little graphics & game apps on python, but I have lots to learn Jan 14 17:09:00 aye Jan 14 17:09:59 Sup3rkiddo: not enough to install all the python packages you'd need to build the basic neo apps in python? Jan 14 17:10:38 s/not enough/not enough flash memory/ Jan 14 17:10:38 wurp2 meant: Sup3rkiddo: not enough flash memory to install all the python packages you'd need to build the basic neo apps in python? Jan 14 17:10:45 wurp2, i have a lot of cruft of my own code...i need to clean that up Jan 14 17:11:08 OE guys have done a good job in packaging python stuff Jan 14 17:11:23 very much so Jan 14 17:11:41 I had to do one little hack to get pyroute up, but I expected it to be worse... Jan 14 17:12:24 But, it seems to me given that e.g. the media player is using standard libraries for the playback Jan 14 17:12:36 one could write a much nicer media app in a short period of time using python Jan 14 17:12:59 or using C, for that matter, but then you have mem bugs to worry about Jan 14 17:13:02 wurp2, pygtk is bollocks on the neo, takes 5 seconds to startup Jan 14 17:13:21 Ah, is that it Jan 14 17:13:28 I wondered why pyroute was so slow Jan 14 17:13:54 I had a little pygtk test app I wrote, but it wasn't coming up for other reasons, and I haven't tried it again since I figured those reasons out Jan 14 17:14:16 wurp2, yeah, one of my code was just a simple pygtk app, that has a entry widget, text view widget and a button to send sms Jan 14 17:14:16 hint: in python, don't name your module the same thing that one of the built in modules you're using is named ;-) Jan 14 17:15:11 wurp2, may hurt eyes, http://sudharsh.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/screenshot-1.png Jan 14 17:15:27 My guis are always painful to the eyes Jan 14 17:15:33 I really need to work on that... Jan 14 17:15:53 oh yeah, I actually saw that before Jan 14 17:15:58 Didn't notice it was python Jan 14 17:17:28 wurp2, subsequent executions are faster....if you bring in glade takes a little more time...i have a basic contacts hack in pygtk and thats suckier Jan 14 17:18:24 Sup3rkiddo: hmm... it seems it would be pretty easy to build a little python bootstrap app Jan 14 17:18:40 that keeps a py env running all the time, so it would be MUCH quicker to start an app again Jan 14 17:18:46 wurp2, like the interpreter running all the time? Jan 14 17:19:07 I need to look into namespacing and threading in python to see if you could build a sort of mini app server with some partitioning between apps Jan 14 17:19:10 yeah Jan 14 17:19:15 ah..iirc someone was talking on similar lines a few days ago Jan 14 17:19:18 it would be really easy to test it with one app Jan 14 17:19:39 multiple apps would require some actual work, how much depending on how that stuff works in python Jan 14 17:19:43 which I dunno Jan 14 17:19:49 wurp2, gta03 will hopefully be much better Jan 14 17:20:02 yeah Jan 14 17:20:05 double speed is nice Jan 14 17:20:25 i mean python in s60 is quite fast, bare bones .dlls, interpreter written in python itself Jan 14 17:20:36 although python 2.2 for ngage qd Jan 14 17:20:51 Yeah, it's the load time for packages that I'm thinking of Jan 14 17:21:06 of course, I dunno anything about any disk caching on the neo Jan 14 17:21:16 anyone know if neo does disk caching? Jan 14 17:21:53 bedboi: a remarquable news (at least for me) : Jan 14 17:22:04 a preliminary test shows that Jan 14 17:22:14 emacspeak can work on gta01 :-) Jan 14 17:22:18 not to be a beep, but i thought flash memories have limited number of write cycles Jan 14 17:22:24 http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/ Jan 14 17:23:16 so it could be possible to have a neo + keyboard + earphone in a meeting Jan 14 17:23:25 kewl Jan 14 17:23:28 and read texts using emacs Jan 14 17:23:36 * Sup3rkiddo hugs his neo Jan 14 17:24:13 neo in the pocket, no screen needed :-) Jan 14 17:24:44 hiya folks. Jan 14 17:24:47 whats up with you guys? Jan 14 17:24:49 zilux, that's a nifty idea. Just type in on a mini bt keypad Jan 14 17:24:52 torpor, hiya Jan 14 17:25:09 aand yeah flash has limited write (well, actually erase) cycles Jan 14 17:25:16 Sup3rkiddo: whats news man? Jan 14 17:25:30 shouldn't be much of an issue in practice Jan 14 17:25:32 mjr: I would try to go to usb Jan 14 17:25:38 torpor, :P, i got dumped Jan 14 17:25:46 d'oh! Jan 14 17:25:48 not fun Jan 14 17:25:51 was she hot? Jan 14 17:25:55 torpor, na Jan 14 17:26:00 torpor, it'd be a bit clunky though Jan 14 17:26:07 notice the ":p" ? Jan 14 17:26:24 mjr: ? Jan 14 17:26:44 bt keyboard + neo == awesome. Jan 14 17:27:04 oops Jan 14 17:27:05 anyone here feel a bricked neo in the making?...i am thinking of flashing the uboot and torpor just appeared :/ Jan 14 17:27:10 zilux, it'd be a bit clunky though Jan 14 17:27:22 torpor, zilux was talking usb there, confused you Jan 14 17:27:58 torpor: are you using a bt kbd with your neo? Jan 14 17:28:11 yes Jan 14 17:28:13 and if so, can you make a recommendation about the model? Jan 14 17:28:14 apple bt Jan 14 17:28:18 mjr: clunky? Jan 14 17:28:24 rocks ass Jan 14 17:28:30 * mjr hasn't bothered with his BT keypad much yet, would really need that gprs multiplexing to start needing it more Jan 14 17:28:39 (hey, how's the gprs multiplexing coming on? :) Jan 14 17:28:50 zilux, wired. Inconvenient. Jan 14 17:29:02 mjr: ah, ok. Jan 14 17:29:44 mjr: I would prefer to be exposed too long to bt wave. Jan 14 17:30:00 (not be exposed) Jan 14 17:30:12 well, suit yourself then Jan 14 17:33:43 torpor, did you have a bt keypad app(let) or do I recall someone else? Jan 14 17:35:47 say Jan 14 17:35:56 we have two ways of identifying an SMS Jan 14 17:36:03 way one Jan 14 17:36:13 first we specifcy a storage space Jan 14 17:36:21 and then we access every SMS by index Jan 14 17:36:30 way two Jan 14 17:36:38 storage spaces are implicitly encoded in the index Jan 14 17:36:43 e.g. Jan 14 17:36:51 0 - 10000 is SIM Jan 14 17:36:54 everything above is PHONE Jan 14 17:37:03 which dbus interface would you prefer? Jan 14 17:37:18 [note: question to application developers only] Jan 14 17:37:52 i dont see much difference between the two, its the index anyways? Jan 14 17:38:29 I suppose the first one would be more intuitive Jan 14 17:38:55 alternatively Jan 14 17:38:56 way 3 Jan 14 17:39:03 we always refer to the SMS by a tuple Jan 14 17:39:07 i'd prefer 1, its simple... Jan 14 17:39:11 ( storage space, index ) Jan 14 17:39:28 yeah, i'm leaning towards way 1 Jan 14 17:40:06 mjr: i made some tweaks to SettingsGUI to set up the bt keyboard connection .. but then something changed in openmoko and broke it and i haven't fixed it yet .. Jan 14 17:40:16 righto Jan 14 17:41:54 mickeyl, i am not really experienced in these things, but how do the other mobile phone achieve this...i guess they have separate storage for sim, and phone....and when you select the desired one, there you go... Jan 14 17:42:03 righto Jan 14 17:42:13 i'm always leaning towards existing interfaces Jan 14 17:42:20 just questioning how i would like to have it as app programmer Jan 14 17:42:31 * mickeyl going for way 1 now Jan 14 17:42:40 we can always change laterone when we have more experience with the API Jan 14 17:42:53 so, the only problem i would face being a programmer is, where do i allocate the space?... Jan 14 17:42:59 oh well, never mind Jan 14 17:43:02 * mjr is unlikely to do SMS stuff but would tend towards 1) also Jan 14 17:43:27 (or maybe 3) Jan 14 17:43:46 yeah. 1 or 3. lets go for 1 first Jan 14 17:43:48 3 looks similar to 1 Jan 14 17:43:56 would 1 mean first saying SMS, then the index? Jan 14 17:44:04 well Jan 14 17:44:04 I am unlikely to work with it, but I would also prefer 1 or 3 by far. Much easier to just say what you mean, rather than lookup or maybe misremember some magic index Jan 14 17:44:06 assuming pseudo code Jan 14 17:44:16 1 would say Jan 14 17:44:18 and I think 1 is better Jan 14 17:44:21 mickeyl, libgsmd does 1? Jan 14 17:44:23 service.SetDefaultStorageSpace("PHONE") Jan 14 17:44:24 service.ListMessages() Jan 14 17:44:36 service.RetrieveMessage( 0 ) Jan 14 17:44:39 etc. Jan 14 17:44:41 3 would be Jan 14 17:44:48 service.RetrieveMessage( "PHONE", 0 ) Jan 14 17:45:03 question is whether you want to always have to specify the default storage space Jan 14 17:45:08 when most of the time you are only using one Jan 14 17:45:08 If you're writing code to loop over them all, 1 sounds easier Jan 14 17:45:14 *nod* Jan 14 17:45:43 and otherwise, they sound pretty much equal Jan 14 17:46:17 It would be nice if there was a method (it could be hardcoded for now) that returns the list of StorageSpaces Jan 14 17:46:27 agreed Jan 14 17:46:27 Jan 14 17:46:27 Jan 14 17:46:27 Jan 14 17:46:29 :) Jan 14 17:46:29 likewise max index Jan 14 17:46:38 :-) Jan 14 17:46:40 no, you'll be getting a list of indexes Jan 14 17:46:44 they _may_ be noncontiguous Jan 14 17:46:46 ah Jan 14 17:46:53 Jan 14 17:46:53 Jan 14 17:46:53 Jan 14 17:46:59 i see we're on the same page ;) Jan 14 17:47:12 * mickeyl continues thinking about VoiceCalls now Jan 14 17:48:11 mickeyl, it would be wonderful if you document this somewhere..for others not here to take a peek...docs as in plain english docs =) Jan 14 17:48:25 sure thing Jan 14 17:48:29 i'm working on a draft as we speak Jan 14 17:48:31 in XML Jan 14 17:48:38 then I will do an RFC Jan 14 17:48:44 kewl..sounds good Jan 14 17:50:49 it may sound obvious but, is an idea of plotting the location on googlemaps based on the nmea output from gllin feasible? Jan 14 17:50:58 hard Jan 14 17:51:04 it's easy on google earth Jan 14 17:51:07 after wifi? Jan 14 17:51:18 Also easy on openstreetmap Jan 14 17:51:20 s/after/wifi/ Jan 14 17:51:20 Sup3rkiddo meant: wifi wifi? Jan 14 17:51:28 doh! Jan 14 17:51:37 http://www.mauve.plus.com/simple.awk Jan 14 17:52:00 ah, awk Jan 14 17:52:07 This is a trivial script to go from NMEA to tab seperated lat/lon and other things Jan 14 17:52:17 Also - gpsbabel is of use Jan 14 17:52:32 I think it can output kml - for input into google earth Jan 14 17:52:47 Yopu can't load kml into google-maps Jan 14 17:53:16 SpeedEvil, googlemaps somehow has better coverage than openstreetmap in my part of the world...i would love to stick to openstreetmaps though Jan 14 17:53:33 The above script and gnuplot is good for plotting errors Jan 14 17:53:42 where are you? Jan 14 17:53:48 SpeedEvil, Chennai Jan 14 17:53:49 I'm sure I asked before and have forgotten. Jan 14 17:53:53 Sup3rkiddo, so improve OSM ;) Jan 14 17:54:05 mjr, yes..i would love to Jan 14 17:54:48 but is there a dummy's guide to do this on the neo.. Jan 14 17:55:11 Sup3rkiddo: You can't do it on there. Jan 14 17:55:19 Sup3rkiddo: at least yet. Jan 14 17:55:25 in my app i can blog the gps location from my neo directly to my drupal based site but i just create a link to google maps Jan 14 17:55:30 Sup3rkiddo: I use it for logging NMEA using cat+gzip Jan 14 17:55:42 SpeedEvil, yes...but i dont have a gps device other than the neo Jan 14 17:56:14 Sup3rkiddo: then I copy that to my main system, on which I ungzip the file, and then run gpsbabel over it. Jan 14 17:56:20 to convert to gpx Jan 14 17:56:21 ah... Jan 14 17:56:30 SpeedEvil: Why hard to put gps location on google maps? Jan 14 17:56:33 Then I load that into JOSM Jan 14 17:56:45 Can't you find out the upper left & lower right lat,lon for a google map? Jan 14 17:56:51 * mjr does the same (except I do gpspipe -R | gzip > file.gz via gpsd, which reads gllin) Jan 14 17:57:04 SpeedEvil, ah thanks, please please create a wiki on this Jan 14 17:57:07 wurp2: there is no 'upload this series of points' in google. Jan 14 17:57:24 Ah, I thought he meant the other way around... Jan 14 17:57:37 Download google maps for his area, associating lat/long with the corners Jan 14 17:57:46 If you just want one, you can of course search for @x,y Jan 14 17:57:51 then display map with a dot superimposed for his loc Jan 14 17:58:02 yeah, thats what i had in mind Jan 14 17:58:06 I haven't looked at the google maps api at all Jan 14 17:58:31 but it seemed based on what I've seen people doing with it that you must at least be able to request a map for a lat/lon Jan 14 17:58:55 Sup3rkiddo: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide Jan 14 17:59:15 if u have gprs and gps working u can feeling brave u can try out my app to blog your location etc Jan 14 17:59:20 upload data -> how to convert tracks Jan 14 18:00:25 SpeedEvil, thanks for the link =) Jan 14 18:00:34 No problem :) Jan 14 18:01:09 anyone actually got gprs + gps running on there neo other than speedevil out of interest? Jan 14 18:01:22 Sup3rkiddo: I would think you could do that with some javascript to get google maps, then cairo to overlay images Jan 14 18:01:33 zedstar: it was a trivial test. Jan 14 18:01:42 wurp2, jep Jan 14 18:01:42 zedstar: just grep|ssh Jan 14 18:01:51 zedstar: I think many people have gps Jan 14 18:01:58 me gonna go out and test it out tomorrow Jan 14 18:02:00 zedstar: Not so sure about gprs Jan 14 18:02:42 Sup3rkiddo: Or it might make more sense to download google maps & put them in a format navit can understand... Jan 14 18:02:58 yeh lots have gps ive seen Jan 14 18:03:08 Sup3rkiddo: yes - chennai does seem - somewhat under-mapped. Maybe 12 roads? :) Jan 14 18:03:14 but not so many out with their neos with gprs configured it seems Jan 14 18:03:28 SpeedEvil, yes, and this is a metropolitan city Jan 14 18:03:33 zedstar: it's totally seperate. Jan 14 18:03:41 zedstar: I'm not doing anything clever. Jan 14 18:03:51 Sup3rkiddo: Or if you wanted to help everone in Chennai out, you could manually create content from the google maps ;-) Jan 14 18:03:59 wurp2: no Jan 14 18:04:01 speedevil: yeh i know i just wondered cos would like some testers of my app but needs both Jan 14 18:04:09 wurp2: that's not allowed by the terms and conditions of google Jan 14 18:04:14 Or I think there was even a way to pull content from yahoo, so you only have to type in street names Jan 14 18:04:14 wurp2: yahoo does Jan 14 18:04:15 wurp2, i'd rather help OSM =).... Jan 14 18:04:46 neo would rock we write cool apps abusing its gps receiver Jan 14 18:04:52 zedstar: I plan to give gprs a try in the next week or two Jan 14 18:05:28 wurp2 ok let me know if u get it working and wanna do a test with an app Jan 14 18:05:42 so i basically need to conver the /tmp/nmeaP to a standard format Jan 14 18:05:53 convert it to gpx using gpsbabel Jan 14 18:06:07 and play with JOSM? Jan 14 18:06:11 yes - gpsbabel goes NMEA to gpx Jan 14 18:06:22 JOSM or upload the gpx file to the server, then use potlatch Jan 14 18:06:25 which is a flash editor Jan 14 18:07:08 SpeedEvil, gentoo has JOSM =), I can use the nmeaP directly right or, what do you do? Jan 14 18:07:49 Sup3rkiddo: NMEA has to be converted to GPX Jan 14 18:08:07 Sup3rkiddo: it's probably a too-old version - ones over a couple of months won't work Jan 14 18:08:36 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/JOSM Jan 14 18:08:49 you just downlaod the jar and run it - assuming you've got java installed Jan 14 18:08:53 SpeedEvil, yes, through gpsbabel...i meant the /tmp/nmeaP, you were talking about car+gzip Jan 14 18:09:00 cat + gzip Jan 14 18:09:21 I just mean cat /tmp/nmeaP|gzip -9 >`date +%s`.gps Jan 14 18:09:29 So it takes up less space Jan 14 18:09:33 ah.. Jan 14 18:09:39 dang..so obvious Jan 14 18:20:08 Sup3rkiddo: I just use gpsd + pygps to get coordinates Jan 14 18:20:43 Sup3rkiddo: Although I've had a recommendation to use gypsy rather than pygps. I have no experience with gypsy, though. Jan 14 18:21:11 Sup3rkiddo: not fair - you have better yahoo maps - from which you can derive legally - than I do. (in the UK) Jan 14 18:21:13 I mean of course that I use gllin, then gpsd pointed to /tmp/NMEANP, then pygps to get location data Jan 14 18:21:29 wurp2, yeah, i am aware of that but i was thinking if i could use those co-ordinates, afterall location is just (lat, long) Jan 14 18:21:39 wurp2, yup Jan 14 18:22:20 SpeedEvil, hmm, googlemaps is much better..it shows the damn street i live in and i am in the suburban prt of chennai Jan 14 18:22:24 sure. I thought gpsd was just doing the job of that awk script, with an api on top Jan 14 18:23:22 at the time I though there was an issue with having multiple apps catting NMEA Jan 14 18:23:32 I'm still a little fuzzy on it Jan 14 18:23:37 hmm.. Jan 14 18:23:46 b/c I think I've seen an app miss data that another app was getting from my NMEA Jan 14 18:23:57 which is one reason I switched to gpsd Jan 14 18:24:09 oooh.. Jan 14 18:24:33 so I could just have one direct reader of NMEA, and then use it as an api Jan 14 18:24:40 yeah Jan 14 18:25:06 * Sup3rkiddo is new to these gps stuff, so may sound dorky Jan 14 18:25:08 but that is again an anecdotal experience, I was messing with lots of stuff at the same time and I may have just misinterpreted what I saw Jan 14 18:25:17 I'm new too Jan 14 18:25:46 I really have no idea how the /tmp/NMEA 'fake file' works Jan 14 18:26:31 I should have said "at the time I *thought*" Jan 14 18:27:00 :P, my neurons correcltly interpreted that, so no worries Jan 14 18:27:18 Does anyone know details on how /tmp/NMEANP works? I thought there was a requirement that something read it pretty quick after gllin starts writing to it Jan 14 18:27:42 and as I said, I had an experience that led me to believe multiple apps reading it might cause an issue Jan 14 18:28:14 but in retrospect, what happened may have just been that the second app just saw the file as starting off empty, although the other app showed data it had read Jan 14 18:28:25 I think it is just a plain old named pipe? Jan 14 18:28:36 It si. Jan 14 18:28:38 It is. Jan 14 18:28:39 which seems reasonable, given that it's a fake file that only shows content Jan 14 18:28:43 ah, that makes sense Jan 14 18:29:10 So now I just need to learn about how named pipes work :-) I always use a queue, or shared memory, or the like for such things. Jan 14 18:30:23 shared memory is fast btw i prefer named pipes Jan 14 18:30:41 wurp2: actually you can use GIOChannels Jan 14 18:39:49 * thseiler has hacked the matchbox-keyboard into something more thumbfriendly, check it our at http://www.seili.net/openmoko Jan 14 18:41:10 bedboi: Thanks, I'll check out GIOChannels Jan 14 18:42:28 thseiler: From the screenshot, it looks as if it gives a hover view of the key you currently are pressing, and types it when you 'key up'? Jan 14 18:46:41 I'm quite thrilled, I got me Neo this morning. :) Jan 14 18:47:46 the Jan 14 18:47:50 pff.. Jan 14 18:47:59 hmm..cat /tmp/nmeaNP|gzip > blah.gps Jan 14 18:48:01 is empty Jan 14 18:48:10 thats the correct pipe, right? Jan 14 18:48:23 although cat /tmp/nmeaNP works Jan 14 18:48:55 Are the writes buffered before written to disk? Jan 14 18:49:10 ? Jan 14 18:49:14 I guess it's zipping in blocks, but I dont know.. Jan 14 18:49:24 SpeedEvil, ^^ ? Jan 14 18:50:26 Sup3rkiddo: How much content are you getting from cat /tmp/nmeaNP? Jan 14 18:50:38 wurp2, loads... Jan 14 18:50:49 CM is asking if gzip is buffering the bytes, which seems likely (actually, required for zip) Jan 14 18:51:06 but if you're getting lots of output, then that still wouldn't explain it :-( Jan 14 18:51:32 wait Jan 14 18:51:38 I don't think gzip > blah.gps works Jan 14 18:51:39 i cant afford to cat /tmp/nmeaNP > blah.gps , would fill up fast Jan 14 18:51:46 gzip -9? Jan 14 18:51:49 you want to kill the cat when you stop Jan 14 18:51:49 I think you want gzip -o or something Jan 14 18:52:34 If you're running the gllin shell, that already cats nmeaNP to ~/gps.gz or some such Jan 14 18:52:42 (cats it through gzip) Jan 14 18:53:18 gzip -c writes to std out Jan 14 18:53:41 wurp2, yeah but gps.gz is empty as well Jan 14 18:53:58 That doesn't make any sense at all... Jan 14 18:54:09 Wait Jan 14 18:54:27 I think you may need to take down gllin, kill all the 'cat's, and start up again Jan 14 18:54:40 if the cat started before the mknod, I think you'll get no output Jan 14 18:55:13 the gllin shell script deletes nmeaNP and recreates the pipe when you run it Jan 14 18:55:19 done, yeah... Jan 14 18:55:37 (unfortunately, it doesn't unmount all the file systems, and the neo for some reason lets you mount them multiple times) Jan 14 18:55:59 hmm, gps.gz seems to be written after gllin is killed Jan 14 18:56:08 I created a little umount.sh script that un-does everything I could find that gllin does, and I put that at the start of my gllin script Jan 14 18:56:39 otherwise I had to keep umounting the gllin chroot directories once for every time I started up gllin to get them all shut down Jan 14 18:56:42 wurp2, wait..i think i found it..data is written after gllin is killed Jan 14 18:56:59 that sounds like a caching issue Jan 14 18:57:08 I think CM had it right with the -9 comment Jan 14 19:09:53 based on reading up on named pipes, I'll bet that my problem with multiple processes reading nmeaNP was just that new readers didn't get the existing data Jan 14 19:10:27 which is expected behavior, if I had known enough to have reasonable expectations :-) Jan 14 19:18:43 the mailing lists are getting jammed with weird people Jan 14 19:18:44 is http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/2007/ down? Jan 14 19:18:57 I'm getting errors when trying to update :( Jan 14 19:21:21 we're all on a mailing list talking about a phone that we paid $300 for when we knew it didn't really work Jan 14 19:21:38 so I think we're all weird people, with the possible exception of the guys getting paid to fix it :-) Jan 14 19:25:21 wurp2: lol Jan 14 19:25:46 LOL Jan 14 19:27:10 duffyd: yeah, it's down, so it linuxtogo Jan 14 19:27:49 summatusmentis: thanks Jan 14 19:28:00 sure thing Jan 14 19:32:03 I'm looking through the wiki for "Flashing the Neo" and much of the info there is out of date. I see that there are additional images after 2007.1... What kernel/rootfs would you guys recommend for a first flash? Jan 14 19:33:10 today's snapshot Jan 14 19:38:30 balrog-kun, Are the snapshots already built, or need i compile them myself? If the first, where can I obtain them? I don't see "official" snapshots listed, and there are several unofficial. Jan 14 19:39:00 kdean06: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/ are official afaik Jan 14 19:39:16 i have not tried today's snapshot, but that's my standard answer :) Jan 14 19:40:39 is there a reason there's not upgrade path? Jan 14 19:40:56 I don't own a neo, use cdma, but on the Z we can ipkg update; ipkg upgrade Jan 14 19:45:58 does anyone here know anything about the temperature measurement circuit in the battery? Jan 14 19:47:23 I noticed it doesn't work correctly. The kernel says there's a 10k resistor in the battery in parallel with the thermistor, but I measured 4 batteries and they are all around 10.6k, which would be impossible Jan 14 20:05:30 summatusmentis: I'm not sure what you mean about there not being an upgrade path... Jan 14 20:05:50 wurp2: what would be the point of reflashing? Jan 14 20:05:59 can't you just upgrade? Jan 14 20:06:02 I'm pretty sure on the neo, if you have internet & DNS going, ipkg update; ipkg upgrade works Jan 14 20:06:08 When you get the device Jan 14 20:06:15 it has no rootfs or kernel on it Jan 14 20:06:27 So you're not re-flashing; you're just flashing Jan 14 20:06:35 oh, that's bothersome Jan 14 20:07:01 And, I think there is an issue with kernel upgrades via ipkg upgrade Jan 14 20:07:23 Yeah, I'm not sure why they don't flash 'em before they send 'em Jan 14 20:07:30 oh, that'd make sense, you can't upgrade the kernel on a Z either without flashing Jan 14 20:07:43 One good thing is that it lets a non-dev type person know right away that they want to send the device back ;-) Jan 14 20:08:07 It sounded to me as if it is a bug they planned to fix (the kernel upgrade problem) Jan 14 20:08:57 it'd be nice if there was a way to store kernel on rootfs Jan 14 20:11:41 if the kernel image is not fragmente, u-boot should have no problem booting a kernel image that's on the rootfs i think Jan 14 20:12:41 i have no idea how to assure that on jffs2 though Jan 14 20:35:34 openmoko: 03laforge * r3830 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/ (configure.ac src/main.c): introduce LE2CPU16 macro to deal with big-endian systems and little-endian USB descriptors. This should now also work on OSX (thanks to suggestion by Daniel Hembree) Jan 14 20:40:01 openmoko: 03laforge * r3831 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: missing osx header Jan 14 21:21:32 how do I report bugs? Found one in the helloworld package... Jan 14 21:25:32 hexmode: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/index.cgi Jan 14 21:25:52 tyvm Jan 14 21:26:04 * hexmode goes to search for his already-reported bug Jan 14 21:28:13 hexmode: yvw Jan 14 21:37:17 I am as close to geek euphoria as possible. I love my Neo. :) Jan 14 21:37:42 Yeah, very fun Jan 14 21:37:51 Now if mine will just get back to me Jan 14 21:37:58 kdean06: What have you been doing with it? Jan 14 21:38:34 I haven't done much of anything except show it off. :P Jan 14 21:38:53 I just got it this morning, flashed it and charged it. :) Jan 14 21:39:59 heh Jan 14 21:40:07 Can you make calls? Jan 14 21:40:19 I didn't get much reaction from showing mine off Jan 14 21:40:41 I mean, I'm not even showing it off to non-devs, I wouldn't expect them to 'get it' Jan 14 21:40:53 I order one, but I'm unlucky, my credit card was refused 2 times :'( Jan 14 21:40:58 but the devs are looking at iphones, which already do the stuff I'm interested in getting my neo to do Jan 14 21:41:01 barring gps Jan 14 21:41:29 and, of course, barring all the cool dev stuff, porting my dvd movies to it, porting the games I like to it, etc. Jan 14 21:41:48 building cool apps that integrate gps & gprs & sms Jan 14 21:42:12 wurp2, I'm "lucky" (I quote it because it's also by design) that my company is based on Free Software and writes it - a liberated phone is an interesting spectacle here. :) Jan 14 21:42:17 but I have yet to find anyone (in person) but me who really cares about that part Jan 14 21:42:24 ah, I'm sure! Jan 14 21:42:31 I've got my SIM in but it's stuck on "registering"... Jan 14 21:42:34 what is your company, may I ask? Jan 14 21:42:42 Is your SIM supported? Jan 14 21:43:23 I hope so. :) It's a T-Mobile plan and I've seen good things. I'm not particularly sure of what model/make/whatever my SIM is. Jan 14 21:44:52 There was a number printed on mine Jan 14 21:45:05 that was very similar to the numbers on the wiki under Carriers/ATT Jan 14 21:45:22 (my carrier is ATT) Jan 14 21:46:25 so, tried to register for a wiki account and bugzilla, but no email from openmoko... Jan 14 21:46:47 anyone have a clue what IP the emails are coming from so I can see if my mail server is blocking them? Jan 14 21:48:36 my email was from webmaster@openmoko.org Jan 14 21:49:06 hexmode : Received: from www-data by sita.openmoko.org with local (Exim 4.50) Jan 14 21:50:41 hexmode: it's for the bugzilla Jan 14 21:51:02 starox_, wurp2: thanks... nothing from sita.openmoko.org (88.198.124.203) in my logs... nothing matching openmoko at all. :( Jan 14 21:51:39 lemme try a gmail addy... Jan 14 21:52:44 hexmode: reading my headers, it tooks 4 hour Jan 14 21:52:51 ! Jan 14 21:53:04 maybe that's it. but gmail was quick.. Jan 14 21:53:29 hexmode: oops ! It's late, not 4 hour, but 23minutes Jan 14 21:54:59 starox_: being that late usually means graylisting (or is it greylisting? I never know how to spell that) Jan 14 21:55:58 cesarb: You got it, I totally forgot that I use greylisting Jan 14 21:56:58 I hope http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/ comes up again soon Jan 14 21:57:51 starox_: as someone who administer one of these mail servers which only ever send login confirmations from a web server, I know how annoying graylisting can be (it's almost the only reason emails end up in the queue) Jan 14 22:01:07 cesarb: as a user, I'm used to it. I don't regret it as I have almost no spam. Jan 14 22:02:49 :9 Jan 14 22:02:52 Gmail sucks. Jan 14 22:03:00 I want to me able to see my e-mail headers. :( Jan 14 22:03:02 still, as a user, it'd be nice if I could talk to someone who manages the machines about the email. I prefer my own email to gmail. Jan 14 22:03:51 kdean06: gmail lets you see headers. "show original" Jan 14 22:03:59 kdean06: you can easily see the headers on gmail, just do a "show original" Jan 14 22:04:10 hexmode: typed faster than me ;-) Jan 14 22:05:32 Ummm... "Show Original" doesn't appear anywhere at all in the source - is that in settings? Jan 14 22:05:54 It's in the arrow drop-down Jan 14 22:06:04 They hid a bunch of stuff in there with the last release Jan 14 22:07:30 WOW! Jan 14 22:07:34 Thanks... Jan 14 22:07:40 I've been reporting phishing as spam. :P Jan 14 22:10:48 Weird... Jan 14 22:10:51 kdean06: if you use the "report phishing" function, it ends up in spam, so it's not that wrong Jan 14 22:11:11 kdean06: after all, phishing is almost always spam Jan 14 22:11:22 Does the Neo default to "Autoregister with GSM network"? Jan 14 22:12:00 * * OM Bug 1180 has been created by hexmode(AT)gmail.com Jan 14 22:12:01 * * helloworld doesn't build out-of-the-box on ubuntu Jan 14 22:12:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1180 Jan 14 22:37:00 * * OM Bug 1181 has been created by andrew.paulsen(AT)packetdigital.com Jan 14 22:37:01 * * Battery temperature is incorrect (fix) Jan 14 22:37:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1181 Jan 14 22:38:11 who wants to test my kernel patch? ^^ Jan 14 22:40:17 I would, if I had one! D: Jan 14 22:41:35 It might be worth buying a Neo now that it can measure it's own battery temperature. It's an irresistable feature. Jan 14 22:42:31 lol Jan 14 22:42:33 :-) Jan 14 22:42:56 apaulsen, But the guitar pick is sexier, sorry. Jan 14 22:43:10 they're not mutually exclusive features Jan 14 22:44:03 There's a noticable change once one ventures into #openmoko. You begin considering "guitar pick" to be a "feature" and you stop "turning on" your phone and begin "booting" it. Jan 14 22:46:03 lol Jan 14 22:46:21 boot to the head >.> Jan 14 23:03:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r35 10/trunk/standards/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.xml: otapi: change indexing concept in org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS Jan 14 23:23:41 openmoko: 03andrew * r3832 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (37 files in 6 dirs): Pull changes from upstream. Jan 14 23:44:10 wurp2: hi, yes, the patches modify the keyboard such that it shows a hover window to help you aim, and then send the key when you release the touchscreen. Jan 14 23:51:56 thseiler: really cool feature Jan 14 23:54:08 thseiler: btw. do you have a newer version of the CDC ethernet emulator patch for qemu? Jan 14 23:54:21 newer than the one posted on qemu-devel once Jan 14 23:54:51 balrog-kun: no sorry, can't help you there. Jan 14 23:55:03 okays Jan 14 23:56:10 the qemu-neo1973 tree has the patch in, but nobody managed to fix it enough to get really reliable networking so far Jan 15 00:02:26 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r36 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (Makefile README pygpsd.py pygsmd.py pypwrd.py sample.py): Jan 15 00:02:26 freesmartphone.org: power on/off added. Jan 15 00:02:26 freesmartphone.org: brought gps nearer to gypsy Jan 15 00:02:26 freesmartphone.org: fixed sample Jan 15 00:46:51 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r37 10/trunk/software/py-proto/pygpsd.py: fixed typos Jan 15 01:28:43 * Kero wonders, with CES demonstrations, is/will there be a new image? Jan 15 01:30:23 of the gta02? it looks identical outside Jan 15 01:32:13 Near-identical. Jan 15 01:32:19 The buttons are translucent. Jan 15 01:34:47 it would be difficult to take a picture where this detail could be seen Jan 15 01:34:54 True. Jan 15 01:34:55 oh unless the LEDs were on Jan 15 01:35:24 Does gta02 have a led indicating it is charging? esp. when Linux is not running, yet? Jan 15 01:35:51 As I understand it - no, it won't - it relies on linux or u-boot to set the LEDs Jan 15 01:36:13 But they can carry on flashing. Jan 15 01:36:17 after shutting off Jan 15 01:37:22 too bad. this laptop may not be charging it, having been on battery itself. and even now, I'm not sure... dmesg says nothing. Jan 15 01:51:41 boots. so was charging :) Jan 15 01:55:08 Kero: it does not matter if the laptop is on battery. as long as that particular port is not a crippled 100mA-only port, it'll charge. Jan 15 01:57:23 * Kero thinks laptops are trying to be too smart. or even PCs with linux. screen-saver turning audio off; Jan 15 01:58:23 pretty sure a laptop of a friend did not load my Neo much, while we were out hiking. laptop was on power, not suspended. Jan 15 01:58:34 that won't charge Jan 15 01:58:58 explain? Jan 15 01:59:31 It won't charge in suspend mode tyypically Jan 15 01:59:32 oh Jan 15 01:59:34 sorry Jan 15 01:59:38 misread Jan 15 01:59:52 hehe. I would guess it wouldn't charge when suspended. Jan 15 02:00:25 but I bet the laptop found some power saving mode that disabled the Neo from charging. Jan 15 02:02:17 and whether it is the OS or the hardware, I do not know; I know I care about being able to see what it *does* and then change the behaviour. Jan 15 02:15:43 In messages, is it possible to set a different type of phone number other than work? I've run ts_calibrate so I'm decently sure it's not being inaccurate, but if I click on the word "Work" it deletes the entry - if this isn't how to do so, what is the method to choose a different type of number? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 15 02:59:57 2008