**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 17 02:59:56 2008 Jan 17 03:30:16 . Jan 17 03:30:21 . Jan 17 04:34:08 openmoko: 03werner * r3859 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (fix-hwecc-2410.patch series): (log message trimmed) Jan 17 04:34:08 openmoko: NAND ECC error correction mis-calculated the bit position, thus turning a Jan 17 04:34:08 openmoko: correctable single-bit error into two errors. Fittingly, also reported Jan 17 04:34:08 openmoko: uncorrectable errors as success. Jan 17 04:34:08 openmoko: The NAND subsystem only does 512 byte reads even on large page NAND, so we can Jan 17 04:34:12 openmoko: use hardware ECC also on HXD8 and GTA02. Tests showed that this does indeed Jan 17 04:34:14 openmoko: work as expected. Jan 17 04:47:29 openmoko: 03werner * r3860 10/developers/werner/nandtilt/ (. Makefile README mtd-abi.h nandtilt.c): A little utility to inflict bit errors on a NAND partition. Jan 17 06:44:24 everyone seen the tom cruise scientology vid? Jan 17 06:44:33 http://defamer.com/344987/the-tom-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientologists-dont-want-you-to-see Jan 17 07:50:50 hello everybody. does anybody know what these might be? Jan 17 07:50:53 mtn: calculating migration... Jan 17 07:50:53 mtn: no migration performed; database schema already up-to-date Jan 17 07:50:53 mtn: doing anonymous pull; use -kKEYNAME if you need authentication Jan 17 07:50:53 mtn: connecting to monotone.openmoko.org Jan 17 07:51:07 mtn: network error: failed to connect: Jan 17 07:51:07 make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1 Jan 17 07:52:08 hi can anyone confirm if opie apps can run on neo? Jan 17 07:53:46 sure, if they were compiled for it. there's not much phone things in opie though Jan 17 07:54:44 ljp: ok, so is it a case of just doing a ipkg install RandomOpieApp ? Jan 17 07:54:47 and then pray+hope Jan 17 07:59:20 dont think anyone has done any work with opie on the neo Jan 17 07:59:49 ok, so if I try and ipkg install, chances are it won't work? Jan 17 08:06:02 morning Jan 17 08:35:05 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3861 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/usock.h src/gsmd/sms_cb.c src/util/event.c): gsmd: fix CMT_parse comma error (Sean Chiang) Jan 17 08:46:59 Hi, am trying to execute AT command from command line using file reading option but it hangs in lgsm_passthrough (lgsmh, buf, rbuf, &rlen); otherwise it works fine Jan 17 08:51:29 good morning Jan 17 08:58:12 Hi, IF I execute AT Commands first time on to device it works fine and when trying same for second time it gives me error like "unable to handle packet type=2" Jan 17 08:58:18 Why ? Jan 17 09:02:50 hi does anyone know if the OM gui depends on python? Jan 17 09:25:57 hi Jan 17 09:27:54 morning coffee without sugar is a one of the best thinks what live can offered. Jan 17 09:30:33 right Jan 17 09:35:02 duffyd, no, it doesn't AFAIK Jan 17 09:35:11 ok, thanks Jan 17 09:57:24 Question: it's possible to move the clock from openmoko-today2 from some different place without editing source code? Jan 17 10:14:39 the clock is a bit annoying isnt it :) Jan 17 10:27:04 is http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds down again :( Jan 17 10:27:40 nooo Jan 17 10:43:00 * * OM Bug 1186 has been created by graeme(AT)openmoko.org Jan 17 10:43:01 * * Investigate qtopia Jan 17 10:43:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1186 Jan 17 10:50:07 morning Jan 17 10:50:10 yoyo: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=965 Jan 17 10:51:45 hrw: :) THX Jan 17 10:58:24 haha :) magnificent :) Jan 17 11:01:35 heh i keep losing my touchscreen pen laser thingy, hope we get another one with gta02 :) Jan 17 11:01:48 they are $4 on ebay Jan 17 11:02:58 Psi_:if you looking for alternative touchscreen pen the good solution is a cover from a pen Jan 17 11:03:43 yeah, i have a few different ones, but i quite like the neo one Jan 17 11:04:12 its even good for entertaining a cat Jan 17 11:05:26 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-in-1-LED-Laser-pointer-Pen-PDA-Para-Cadets-Masons_W0QQitemZ360014193359QQihZ023QQcategoryZ112471QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jan 17 11:08:22 (identical stylus) Jan 17 11:10:25 :D Jan 17 11:12:17 I just noticed the category that was listed in. Collectables > Militaria > Other Militaria > SAS err - no. Jan 17 11:19:17 yoyo: just a question, how would I set that gconf tag? Jan 17 11:20:52 duffyd: dbus-launch gconftool-2 --type bool --set /desktop/poky/interface/small_clock true Jan 17 11:21:04 yoyo: thanks :) Jan 17 11:22:35 and how do I change the desktop picture again? Jan 17 11:24:46 duffyd: I'v replace the org. fil :P strongly prophetic matched :P Jan 17 11:24:55 file I meean Jan 17 11:25:21 yoyo: so you ensured it was the same resolution? Jan 17 11:25:30 yoyo: where is the file btw? Jan 17 11:26:08 duffyd: it can by diffrenst res. it while resize it. file /usr/share/pixmap/wal*.png Jan 17 11:26:26 yoyo: great, thanks again :) Jan 17 11:26:42 duffyd:something like that Jan 17 11:27:10 yup Jan 17 11:46:43 yoyo: do you know if it has to be a png? Jan 17 11:47:31 duffyd: I think yes Jan 17 11:49:11 ok Jan 17 11:52:34 YYY there is some implementation for read read wallpaper from gconf Jan 17 11:53:54 * duffyd looks happily at my new star wars wallpaper :) Jan 17 12:04:18 duffyd: it is possible to henge wallpaper without replace file. you need to set dbus-launch gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/poky/interface/wallpaper "/usr/share/pixmaps/matchbox-keyboard.png" Jan 17 12:04:47 yoyo: great! Jan 17 12:58:36 Guten Tag Jan 17 13:05:30 fscken spam Jan 17 13:06:14 well hello there.. :) Jan 17 13:06:49 What's up with the new name for the neo? Jan 17 13:07:41 the new name won the 'Think of a really crappy name for the GTA02' competition Jan 17 13:08:10 I agree Jan 17 13:08:15 I'm sure it's easier to sell to the public, but its previous name was better.. it gave a bit of thought to it.. Jan 17 13:08:57 [Thu Jan 3 2008] [19:28:42] mickeyl: Where did the name FreeRunner come from :-) ? Jan 17 13:09:05 [Thu Jan 3 2008] [19:28:49] CVirus: i have no idea Jan 17 13:09:20 [Thu Jan 3 2008] [19:29:36] CVirus: no idea, i suspect, the president, the vice president of marketing, or the product manager Jan 17 13:09:33 I thought that Neo1973 was the "official name" at first Jan 17 13:09:38 FreeWilly would have been better ;) Jan 17 13:09:50 naa chickenFucker Jan 17 13:10:04 BillFucker.. ;) Jan 17 13:10:23 crappy-phone? Jan 17 13:10:58 heh, that's just until the last bugs are fixed.. i'm sure it's going to be a great phone, when it's done Jan 17 13:11:02 JPhone .. 1 better than the iPhone :P Jan 17 13:11:08 a letter better Jan 17 13:11:11 what's the new name? Jan 17 13:11:14 freerunner? Jan 17 13:11:17 yap Jan 17 13:11:27 blade runner Jan 17 13:11:28 well, it's not so very bad Jan 17 13:11:30 "Neo Freerunner" i think it is Jan 17 13:11:51 you can runn and runn Jan 17 13:12:05 blade runner would have been better, but i suppose there could be protests from a certain industry Jan 17 13:12:13 and it's very runny. Jan 17 13:13:48 my friends say neo looks like soup box Jan 17 13:13:59 soup box? Jan 17 13:14:03 soap? Jan 17 13:14:07 (soap box?) Jan 17 13:14:07 bar of soap? Jan 17 13:14:21 yy soap Jan 17 13:14:28 soap box Jan 17 13:14:34 phone on a rope Jan 17 13:14:43 i don't really care, no other phone ships with vi preinstalled so far. Jan 17 13:19:10 well v1 came without a working operating system preinstalled ;) Jan 17 13:21:24 haha, what's wrong with a OS that doesn't work?!.. :D Jan 17 13:21:59 I'm just looking forward to that day that it is released, so I can order it :D Jan 17 13:22:34 and then the name doesn't matter that much anymore.. Jan 17 13:25:54 idioterna: ah, but do any come with emacs installed? :) Jan 17 13:28:46 "idioterna" Jan 17 13:28:50 snyggt Jan 17 13:29:19 oh, right Jan 17 13:29:26 i had to flash it with vi :) Jan 17 13:29:39 but anyway, like it all the same Jan 17 13:35:56 Compiler error: http://xkcd.com/ Jan 17 13:36:41 complaint. Jan 17 13:37:54 resolve Jan 17 14:26:57 could anyone tell me which programming languages you can write an OpenMoko application in? Jan 17 14:27:32 Bubbi: python Jan 17 14:27:33 any? Jan 17 14:27:48 any, including c# Jan 17 14:27:51 it's not that I can program anything, but if I had a good idea, I just need to know which capabilities are needed Jan 17 14:27:52 * Stephmw hides Jan 17 14:28:54 your gui is likely to use GTK, so any language that has bindings Jan 17 14:29:01 N-Mi: Isn't python supposed to be installed by the user to run it? Jan 17 14:30:08 Bubbi: don't know, but I have seen many messages on the mailing-lists about python apps Jan 17 14:30:27 so I suppose it's installed by default Jan 17 14:30:55 it was extra couple of months ago, this may have changed Jan 17 14:31:08 I'm sorry if I sound stupid, when I ask.. It's just that I've never made anything other than web-applications :D and a little Java.. Jan 17 14:31:25 in the newer build, python is there by default afaik..python-core to be exact Jan 17 14:31:37 cool.. Jan 17 14:31:38 nice Jan 17 14:32:14 but its bare without batteries included, only a few basic modules Jan 17 14:32:43 gtk bindings? Jan 17 14:32:51 alright.. hey at least it's there! :) Jan 17 14:33:30 Xx13, na, just have a look at the recipes, you will know =) Jan 17 14:33:53 there is a good choice of languages to use already....whatever floats your boat Jan 17 14:34:16 yeah like COBOL Jan 17 14:34:17 cool :) thanks everyone.. Jan 17 14:35:17 well u could use a COBOL like syntax if you write some macros in Scheme to emulate COBOL ;) Jan 17 14:36:45 its no co-incidence COBOL and LOL sound similar Jan 17 14:36:56 ..or look similar Jan 17 14:37:34 * mwester thinks that something more modern would be required, such as "object oriented COBOL" Jan 17 14:37:36 my first paid programming job was in COBOL Jan 17 14:37:52 OOCOBOL Jan 17 14:39:03 * mwester used COBOL once, and realized that any language that requires one to type in a multi-page chunk of source code just to multiply a few numbers was intended for a rather different audience. Jan 17 14:40:11 dudes... if I'd like to play with the neo for some test purposes, what would be the easiest way to get an image that would have just more or less bb + dbus + X in it and very little anything else? Jan 17 14:40:23 get or produce Jan 17 14:42:04 hacking things away from the OM build process? Jan 17 14:44:27 fatal: how mean? what u trying to do? Jan 17 14:53:24 I'd just wish to have device with a touchscreen and as much memory available as possible. For trying out some UI stuff on it Jan 17 14:55:19 how much memory are you thinking? Jan 17 14:56:38 little think with u-boot and kernel: on my way to enable my framebuffer-console -> am I right, that if I want to enable the framebuffer-console I have to enable fb-support in the kernel and after that, add "vga=0x301" to the u-boot parameter "bootargs_base=" .. is this correct? Jan 17 14:57:26 dunno exactly; is there a way to take some base image and then install things on top of that using ipk -files? Jan 17 14:59:40 how about ipk removing stuff from an existing image? Jan 17 15:00:30 hmm Jan 17 15:00:34 maybe that could work Jan 17 15:00:40 anyhow, gotta run -> Jan 17 15:21:51 sija all Jan 17 15:36:04 op P4VuL0N Jan 17 16:20:34 hi Jan 17 17:24:31 does anybody know how to set a new parameter for bootcmd insode u-boot? if I enter "setenv bootcmd setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} ${mtdparts}; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel; bootelf 0x32000000" he starts booting my kernel because of the ";" command, which causes multiple commands... Jan 17 17:24:59 even putting it inside "" or '' does not work Jan 17 17:32:51 ok - found it inside u-boot manual... Jan 17 17:41:01 when updating, what is a "cert". Jan 17 17:41:10 I am guessing rev is a revision in the source control Jan 17 17:42:27 RoboPhred: http://monotone.ca/monotone.html#Certificates Jan 17 17:43:05 ah, thankyee Jan 17 18:04:13 When are the daily snapshots usually updated? Is it manual or automated? Jan 17 18:05:08 I think in the morning .tw time Jan 17 18:05:46 That makes sense. :) Jan 17 18:06:17 openmoko: 03thomas * r3873 10/trunk/src/target/ipkg/ipkg_download.c: ipkg: add a simple progress bar while downloading Jan 17 18:07:04 openmoko: 03werner * r3874 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (fix-hwecc-2410.patch series): (log message trimmed) Jan 17 18:07:04 openmoko: NAND ECC error correction mis-calculated the bit position, thus turning a Jan 17 18:07:04 openmoko: correctable single-bit error into two errors. Fittingly, also reported Jan 17 18:07:04 openmoko: uncorrectable errors as success. Jan 17 18:07:04 openmoko: Note that, unlike 2.6.24, 2.6.22.5 requires ecc.correct to return -1 to signal Jan 17 18:07:07 openmoko: an uncorrectable error, not just any negative value. So this patch is not Jan 17 18:07:09 openmoko: identical to the one in the 2.6.24 tree. Jan 17 18:10:21 hmm, hit a wall while trying to update om Jan 17 18:10:23 ERROR: No providers of build target uboot-openmoko (for []) Jan 17 18:11:02 RoboPhred: Look in the logs before that Jan 17 18:11:06 That's probably not your problem Jan 17 18:11:34 If you look in the logs, you'll see that the build should continue if either target uboot-openmoko or u-boot-openmoko succeeds Jan 17 18:11:55 But it is common to have some other error and have the uboot-openmoko message be the last one in the logs Jan 17 18:11:57 hang on, updated the makefile and retrying, lost the log Jan 17 18:12:06 there wasnt any other error before that though, not in the terminal at least Jan 17 18:13:12 yep, error imidiately after OE build config msgs Jan 17 18:13:48 didnt die this time though Jan 17 18:16:41 is there going to be any exchange for devs once the 02 comes out? Jan 17 18:16:57 want to start developing, but cant affoard to get both due to college tuition Jan 17 18:17:07 I don't think so. Jan 17 18:17:26 But... Jan 17 18:17:42 If you develop enough useful stuff before the '02 comes out, or likely even after, you might get one Jan 17 18:17:55 Some developers got the 01v0 for free Jan 17 18:18:30 doesn't seem likely. Only got 1 patch down for a simple task. Jan 17 18:18:35 Still trying to learn as I go Jan 17 18:18:59 josch, re Jan 17 18:19:00 And really, the only significant differences between 01 & 02 (afaik) are: 400 mhz vs 200mhz, more storage, accelerometers, and wifi Jan 17 18:19:07 and power Jan 17 18:19:23 I'm not sure the power differences will be that significant Jan 17 18:19:30 i thought it will have 500mhz because 400mhz is unavailable?!?!?!? Jan 17 18:19:30 the power problems are primarily software afaik Jan 17 18:19:34 hmm, the wiki makes it seem like a big deal Jan 17 18:19:34 I know there are differences Jan 17 18:19:43 shred2008_: I think that's total miscommunication Jan 17 18:20:01 There is no charge detection on 01 afaik Jan 17 18:20:03 and anyway those differences are worth it to me, especially since I have a 195 mhz windows mobile phone and the slowness of it is getting to me Jan 17 18:20:14 wurp2: i read that once in an email... Jan 17 18:20:17 There is charge detection on 02 Jan 17 18:20:27 RoboPhred, accelerometers and wifi are sweet Jan 17 18:20:30 yep Jan 17 18:20:42 shred2008_: I've seen devs in this room talking about 400 vs 500 mhz, and they all said 400 was it Jan 17 18:20:48 There is a bus speed problem with 500 Jan 17 18:20:58 wifi would also be great, seeing as my entire life right now takes place within range of the college hotspots Jan 17 18:21:09 They would have to reduce the bus speed and increase the multiplier to get 500, and overall it might even be a decrease in device speed Jan 17 18:21:17 RoboPhred: good point Jan 17 18:21:26 wifi is less important to me Jan 17 18:21:35 would be needed, since it wont have edge which my current phone does Jan 17 18:21:39 When I have wifi near me, I usually have access to a computer. Otherwise, gprs is fine. Jan 17 18:22:31 But of course that's just for me personally, which matters a lot to me and not at all to you :-) Jan 17 18:22:55 I have a laptop, but it isnt worth it to pull it out when I have downtime Jan 17 18:23:21 Sup3rkiddo, yeah - was shortly offline because of my f***** intel ipw3945!!! sadly it's cheaper for me to buy a stable atheros than paying an intel dev to write a stable driver Jan 17 18:23:53 is the battery/debug board going to be compatible with 02? Jan 17 18:24:08 hehe, intel wireless cards just work? no? Jan 17 18:24:16 Battery, I think not Jan 17 18:24:19 Debug board, no idea Jan 17 18:24:25 RoboPhred: yes, both work Jan 17 18:24:27 Although I think JTAG is a standard Jan 17 18:24:29 Debug borard yes, Jan 17 18:24:43 XorA: Are you sure about that? I thought someone said the other day the battery wouldn't fit Jan 17 18:24:59 'cause if they're compatible in size, I wanna buy an 02 battery right now for my 01 Jan 17 18:25:01 there is that 2 io charge counter too Jan 17 18:25:14 wurp2: Im running my 02 on old 01 batteries Jan 17 18:25:14 not sure if thats just a phone change, or the battery needs a change too Jan 17 18:25:32 XorA: Oh, didn't know you were an internal dev Jan 17 18:25:35 That's great news! Jan 17 18:25:48 * XorA hasnt seen the 02 battery Jan 17 18:25:54 Is there somewhere I can order the 1700 mA battery? Jan 17 18:25:59 s/mA /mAh / Jan 17 18:25:59 wurp2 meant: Is there somewhere I can order the 1700 mAh battery? Jan 17 18:26:55 need to start scrolling around the bug logs to find a simple task I can do. Anyone know of one off the top of their heads? Jan 17 18:27:28 Noone has touched my combobox patch yet Jan 17 18:27:57 Anyone know the target in MokoMakefile to clean & rebuild arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-as ? Jan 17 18:29:02 rebuild-package-blah, I think? Jan 17 18:32:04 hmm. bugzilla is telling me I am some x visitor of the site and to claim a prize... that doesn't fit... Jan 17 18:32:41 there should be a prize for the millionth bug filed ;) Jan 17 18:33:20 Finding the package is the issue Jan 17 18:33:24 It is non-obvious Jan 17 18:33:46 And I'm not entirely certain that the host's cross-compile tools are in a package Jan 17 18:33:48 It says click below to claim a prize, but there isnt any "below", silly thing Jan 17 18:34:34 RoboPhred: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/quips.cgi?action=show Jan 17 18:34:59 Ah, how unexpected Jan 17 18:35:40 I dont see anything in the makefile for that, but then again I am completely new at this Jan 17 18:35:49 would the compiler be in the toolchain? Jan 17 18:37:23 good idea; let me try rebuilding that Jan 17 18:38:06 also is openmoko-devel-tools Jan 17 18:38:35 arg, I cant get bugzilla to give me a list of bugs, just a list of user actions Jan 17 18:43:05 tjaja... ich frage mich, was passiert, wenn der erste faser auf den markt kommt... ob die dann auch 5-10 jahre brauchen um die zu verbieten? Jan 17 18:49:37 Does anyone know how to rebuild the cross-compilation tools in MokoMakefile? Jan 17 18:51:03 guess you could always make clean all as a last resort and wait a whie Jan 17 18:51:38 Yeah, saving that for last resort Jan 17 18:51:49 I see now some binutils-cross & gcc-cross packages Jan 17 18:51:57 Cleaning them & getting ready to rebuild Jan 17 18:53:15 gaah, sorry wrong channel. Jan 17 18:58:13 Is there any reason why the gsm on/off menu in om is 2 items instead of a toggle? Jan 17 18:58:22 Seems a waist of space and irks me Jan 17 18:58:35 might be fixed by now though, havent updated in a while Jan 17 18:59:18 seems it would make more sense to have the item rename itself based on the gsm status instead of disabling but leaving visible the one that isnt active Jan 17 19:01:15 RoboPhred: That assumes that one can reliably fetch the state; an assumption that might be closer to valid now but certainly was but a wild guess not too long ago. Jan 17 19:01:41 [ ] Enable GSM Jan 17 19:01:53 No renaming involved, but using standard widgets. Jan 17 19:02:42 I dont understand tron, can you clarify? Jan 17 19:04:45 RoboPhred: tron is a movie from the seventies. Jan 17 19:04:53 RoboPhred: see wikipedia for more info Jan 17 19:04:59 was short for "tronic" I didnt understand what he said Jan 17 19:05:07 oops no Jan 17 19:05:11 heh Jan 17 19:05:13 eigthies sorry Jan 17 19:05:23 1982 Jan 17 19:06:31 cant find the code that displays the gsm enable/disable menu Jan 17 19:06:41 found the gsm applet but doesnt seem to be any mention of it Jan 17 19:07:08 when is hte public release??!!!! Jan 17 19:07:27 estimated around march Jan 17 19:07:34 not confirmed Jan 17 19:07:58 not sure if that is end-user date or just the final hardware Jan 17 19:08:10 damn.. k thanks Jan 17 19:08:31 thanks RoboPhred :) Jan 17 19:09:02 I cant do much coding yet, but at least I can be semi-usefull here Jan 17 19:10:02 blarg, still cant find where the code is for the gsm menu Jan 17 19:13:22 RoboPhred: I am trying to say that a checkbox widget or a checkbox menu option should be used for things that enable/disable something. Jan 17 19:14:10 Instead of using e.g. buttons with changing text (Enable Something) when disabled and vice-versa, or using two buttons (which is what you seem to be complaining about). Jan 17 19:14:34 I agree entirely Jan 17 19:15:07 Buttons with changing text are often confusing - does "GPS on" mean GPS is currently on, or I should push the button to turn GPS on? Jan 17 19:15:26 Whereas the checkbox is more straightforward Jan 17 19:15:33 true Jan 17 19:15:46 alright, time to go learn more gtk and figure out how to do this Jan 17 19:15:56 wurp2: or you can do like: when gps is on, the text is green, when its not, grey Jan 17 19:15:57 still need to find where the code for it is hidden... Jan 17 19:16:10 would need to watch out for color schemes on that Jan 17 19:16:18 maito: Sure, but I still do feel that using the checkbox is more intuitive Jan 17 19:16:35 Although I wouldn't argue with doing both... Jan 17 19:16:36 Text can be made clear by "Turn GPS on" rather than just "GPS on" Jan 17 19:16:37 it probably is but not as "pretty" Jan 17 19:16:57 we need eyecandy to show off to non-geek friends ;) Jan 17 19:17:04 maito: Yeah, and I'm not sure I'm a good resource on that. I generally prefer standard to pretty Jan 17 19:17:43 I fought firefox that wasnt friendly with themes, so hopefully om will be made more friendly Jan 17 19:17:50 I go even more theme insane on my phones than I do with computers Jan 17 19:18:14 RoboPhred, tried firefox personas? Jan 17 19:18:23 just whatever ubuntu comes with Jan 17 19:18:29 will take a look at that though Jan 17 19:18:46 the issue was with websites I think, they were setting custom background colors but not text colors Jan 17 19:18:50 so I got white bg on white text Jan 17 19:18:53 Anyone know the solution to "arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy'" in MokoMakefile? Jan 17 19:19:05 I rebuilt arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-as, with no effect Jan 17 19:19:22 what stage of the building does that occure on? Jan 17 19:19:36 I am still rebuilding everything, did a full update 30 mins ago or so Jan 17 19:19:43 havent had that come up so far Jan 17 19:20:08 Building gcc-cross, I think Jan 17 19:20:17 I have never had a good build :-( Jan 17 19:20:36 wurp2, you have a loooong way to go..buddy Jan 17 19:20:37 I am crunching packages right now, so I guess it worked for me Jan 17 19:20:37 out of about 30 tries over 6 or 7 sessions Jan 17 19:20:52 Sup3rkiddo: I figured Jan 17 19:21:25 I have that sort of luck with linux compiles for a game mod I manage Jan 17 19:21:42 RoboPhred: Well, gcc-cross is a package, so I'm not sure you're past it Jan 17 19:21:42 currently it is failing to compile a file that hasnt changed since the last 30 or so sucessful compiles Jan 17 19:21:55 what number is it? Jan 17 19:22:03 3309~ right now Jan 17 19:24:32 Can someone with a recent 2.6.22.5 kernel on a GTA01 check if chgstate returns funny strings like this: http://rafb.net/p/7AEHhK76.html Jan 17 19:26:12 apaulsen, I got that on 2.6.22.5-moko11-svnr3801 Jan 17 19:26:13 apaulsen, that seems familiar, from when I was digging in that area Jan 17 19:26:31 thanks guys, I was hoping I didn't break it with my patches in that file Jan 17 19:33:32 RoboPhred: When you say number, are you referring to the "revision XXXX" messages? Jan 17 19:33:56 'cause I'm pretty sure that just refers to the svn revision used from each of the repositories Jan 17 19:34:06 Running task x of y Jan 17 19:34:23 Hmm, I guess I missed those messages Jan 17 19:34:36 I have given in and done a 'make clean' now, anyway :-/ Jan 17 19:34:47 alright, good luck Jan 17 19:36:27 hmm, local wiki shows 4 others near me who have gta01s, wonder if any of them can be bothered to tutorialize me on getting started Jan 17 19:39:29 RoboPhred: Have you read http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/Index.html ? Jan 17 19:39:43 It is a little out of date, but the closest thing I've seen to a neo user manual Jan 17 19:41:20 link seems to be dead Jan 17 19:41:39 cant even get to togaware.com Jan 17 19:42:03 Must be a routing issue Jan 17 19:42:06 it comes up fine from here Jan 17 19:42:22 Although I sent you the wrong link; that was the index, this is the table of contents: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/openmoko.html Jan 17 19:42:24 probably, it isnt uncommon for the network here to do Strange and Unearthly things Jan 17 19:42:36 where's here? :) Jan 17 19:42:47 Arizona State U Jan 17 19:43:08 I think it's a universal constant that university networks are adminned my monkeys on crack Jan 17 19:43:14 s/my/by/ Jan 17 19:43:14 ewon meant: I think it's a universal constant that university networks are adminned by monkeys on crack Jan 17 19:43:36 certainly true at mine Jan 17 19:43:36 we are stuck with somthing called Cisco Clean Acces Jan 17 19:43:50 which purpose is to not let you use the internet because your firewall isnt updated because you cant use the internet Jan 17 19:43:57 a flat network for a /16 with over 10k machines on it Jan 17 19:44:00 Dunno how persistent you want to be Jan 17 19:44:19 luckally they allow you in without it when using linux, but they are talking about getting CCA for linux too... Jan 17 19:44:22 But you could add a hosts entry for openmoko.togaware.com for 203.202.10.111 and try again Jan 17 19:44:29 Which would get you past it if it's a DNS issue Jan 17 19:45:24 I tried swapping the moko.toga.com with the ip, just threw up a not found Jan 17 19:45:43 Yeah Jan 17 19:45:45 That won't work Jan 17 19:45:48 but a host entry should Jan 17 19:45:52 They're doing virtual hosting Jan 17 19:46:01 dont know how for linux, would welcome a quick mention or I can google it Jan 17 19:46:06 If you got a not found, the host entry should work - it's just a DNS problem Jan 17 19:46:11 sudo vi /etc/hosts Jan 17 19:46:32 last time I used vi I ended up killing x completely, so I will go with nano if its the same to you :P Jan 17 19:46:34 I don't remember if the hostname or the IP goes first, but it's just "hostip" or vice versa Jan 17 19:46:39 Heh Jan 17 19:46:41 never can get the hang of it Jan 17 19:46:44 Yeah, sorry, reflex Jan 17 19:47:15 vi is great once you learn the interface, shite otherwise Jan 17 19:47:39 vim Jan 17 19:48:08 no I need to restart any service to get the host change? Jan 17 19:48:26 do* Jan 17 19:48:39 nope Jan 17 19:48:47 not getting me anywhere then Jan 17 19:48:51 unless I need to restart firefox Jan 17 19:49:02 wouldn't expect so Jan 17 19:49:17 well, my ff has odd caching to the point of insanity Jan 17 19:49:38 I can change to a different wireless network and going to the first page still brings me the old network login page, even with a full refresh Jan 17 19:50:07 ah well, buggerit Jan 17 19:50:36 RoboPhred: No it's not. vim is better than me. much much better. Jan 17 19:51:24 :-( Jan 17 20:05:47 openmoko.com says 2.5G gsm, that mean Edge support? Jan 17 20:06:07 nope :-( Jan 17 20:06:07 gprs Jan 17 20:06:17 ROI of time to learn vi/vim is HUGE, and the TCO of all the knowledge required to master vim is practically zero for anyone working with unices :) Jan 17 20:08:55 hah Jan 17 20:09:02 oh dear, compile just hit a wall Jan 17 20:09:12 I am an old enough fogey now that I don't even remember where or when I learned that stuff Jan 17 20:09:35 Other than learning the hjkl key navigation playing Moria Jan 17 20:09:54 playing Dark Castle in my case, on the mac :) Jan 17 20:11:37 ERROR: Task 3137 (/home/robophred/openmoko/openembedded/packages/efl1/embryo-native_cvs.bb, do_fetch) failed\ Jan 17 20:11:53 is that a failed to download? Jan 17 20:11:57 Yeah Jan 17 20:12:03 bugger Jan 17 20:12:11 ah well, off to lunch, will do another attempt l ater Jan 17 20:12:12 Try looking in the logs to find what file didn't dl, then search the web for it Jan 17 20:12:17 then put it in your cache Jan 17 20:12:34 thanks for your help in generalness Jan 17 21:01:01 * * OM Bug 1187 has been created by andrew.paulsen(AT)packetdigital.com Jan 17 21:01:02 * * chgstate gives incorrect output (fix) Jan 17 21:01:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1187 Jan 17 22:39:38 openmoko: 03werner * r3875 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta02-bt-fixes.patch pcf506xx.patch series): (log message trimmed) Jan 17 22:39:38 openmoko: Increase BT voltage from 2.5V to 3.2V on GTA02, enable/disable the regulator Jan 17 22:39:38 openmoko: to control BT power, and assorted build fixes. Jan 17 22:39:38 openmoko: series: added pcf506xx.patch and gta02-bt-fixes.patch Jan 17 22:39:38 openmoko: pcf506xx.patch: Jan 17 22:39:42 openmoko: - include/linux/pcf50606.h (struct pmu_voltage_rail, enum pmu_event, pmu_cb): Jan 17 22:39:44 openmoko: moved to pcf506xx.h Jan 17 22:45:49 What is the name of the application used to input my contacts in my address book? I thought this was openmoko-contacts2 but I can't seem to find that in the SVN tree in applications, is it part of another package? Jan 17 22:55:07 kdean06: Sorry, no idea Jan 17 22:55:25 Is there some unique-ish text in the UI that you could grep for in the packages source? Jan 17 22:55:40 I found a way to figure it out, I think, anyway. I'll see what package the bug was assigned to... Jan 17 22:55:50 makes sense Jan 17 22:57:25 Hrm... It's assigned top openmoko-contacts... Kinda confirms what i'm thinking... Now to your suggestion, I'll find a phrase or something and grep for that. Jan 17 22:59:21 wurp2, I did install qtopia today at your recommendation. It's interesting to see a bit more of what the neo CAN do. It was rather snappy and the audio was louder. I think it kinda sucks in terms of usibility, but a good learning exercise. :) Jan 17 23:00:48 kdean06: how does it lack in usability? Jan 17 23:01:48 I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but the screen full of icons isn't really intuitive. I mean, I could figure it out but intuitive to me doesn't require logical thought, it should "feel" right. Jan 17 23:03:09 The handwriting recognition thing wasn't that great, IMO either. Not natural characters for me. The backspace was, though. :) Jan 17 23:03:35 I think I prefer the screen full of icons, but there should be some way to get a description Jan 17 23:03:41 click & hold or something Jan 17 23:04:00 The lack of a term just totally turned me off, though Jan 17 23:04:12 ya, click and hold is not used in qtopia 4 Jan 17 23:04:33 what do you need a term for? Jan 17 23:04:39 and when Lorn (or whatever his name is) said on the mailing list "why would anyone want that", it was an even bigger turn off Jan 17 23:04:43 heh Jan 17 23:04:52 Lorn, I presume? ;-) Jan 17 23:04:55 that is me Jan 17 23:04:57 :) Jan 17 23:05:03 Icons are okay if they make sense, I think. But really, how does a user who doesn't KNOW what the Bluetooth logo is know that's used for connecting Bluetooth devices? Jan 17 23:05:12 Well, I write python code, and make notes, and edit my config files Jan 17 23:05:22 and I know how to do all those things well with a term Jan 17 23:05:35 I see no reason to learn a bunch of new apps to do those things if I don't have to Jan 17 23:05:51 And I grep around for things, etc. Jan 17 23:06:18 I understand that it's not important to any normal cell phone user Jan 17 23:06:31 But I'm not choosing an OS for a normal cell phone user, I'm choosing one for me :-) Jan 17 23:07:00 well, t is open source, if it is important enough, someone will write/port one Jan 17 23:07:08 sure Jan 17 23:07:26 When that happens, I may well reconsider which OS I want on my neo Jan 17 23:07:35 Does QTopia use pulseaudio? Jan 17 23:07:48 nope. Jan 17 23:07:56 can use gstreamer though Jan 17 23:08:01 and has support for helix Jan 17 23:08:02 How do you manage switching from one audio config, audio source, etc to another? Jan 17 23:08:22 e.g. when I'm listening to music and the phone rings Jan 17 23:08:43 pulseaudio seems like one of my primary sticking points on openmoko Jan 17 23:08:46 well, QAudioStates does that. the various apps ask for a change in state Jan 17 23:08:56 cool, thanks Jan 17 23:09:28 That seems a better solution to me. Pulseaudio looks great on paper, but it seems like too much cpu for a phone right now Jan 17 23:10:49 but its up to the audiohardware plugin in the device configuration that does the real state changing work Jan 17 23:18:51 ljp: Hey, you've probably got a good grip on the PM thing - the same problem is bothering Qtopia as OM, isn't it? Jan 17 23:19:33 * mwester notes that once again, ljp chooses to dismiss the suggestion for a terminal emulator in Qtopia with the casual "why would you ever need that?" Jan 17 23:20:32 if someone needs it that badly, I'm sure someone will write one :) Jan 17 23:22:55 mwester: qtopia development is driven mainly by customers, not one customer has wanted a terminal on a phone Jan 17 23:23:40 i ask that question because I am trying to understand why someone would really need a term app on a phone Jan 17 23:24:04 dkenzior: Or they will go to another OS that has one... Jan 17 23:24:14 I would need a terminal :/ Jan 17 23:24:19 Because people are more in love with the technical aspect of running linux on a phone, than the functional? Jan 17 23:24:23 ljp: we've tried to tell you that we here (on this IRC and on the ML are not your typical customers, and that *we* would like a terminal app on the phone. Jan 17 23:24:25 That's all. Jan 17 23:24:47 ljp: I don't need one, but I don't need a phone with an open OS, either. I *want* one because I'm a hacker, and it's an intuitive (to me) way to fiddle with stuff. Jan 17 23:24:49 ssh and overall controlling the phone :) Jan 17 23:25:30 mwester: I am not against a term. i would like one as well. I am "fishing" so to speak Jan 17 23:25:38 ljp: There are just tons of command line apps that are very easy to port, and are instantly available if there is a term Jan 17 23:25:39 To us, the device isn't an appliance, where some developer has thought of everything that I might ever wish to do with it. Rather, it is a platform, *I* am the developer, and I wish a terminal to make it easier for me to open the device (so to speak) and make it do something that you never ever thought of making it do. Jan 17 23:25:57 Whereas w/o the term, each of those apps has to have a gui built for it, which is unlikely to happen soon Jan 17 23:26:16 wurp2: in some cases, never Jan 17 23:26:23 And with the gui, you lose the unix-y piping and other command line tricks Jan 17 23:26:29 but on a phone without a keyboard, are you _really_ going to be doing much typing? Jan 17 23:26:46 yes Jan 17 23:26:51 I'd like a term as well, but TT has very limited resources. Perhaps if enough people want one badly enough, they should start a project Jan 17 23:26:56 ljp: I'm not sure... I have done quite a bit so far, but the shiny hasn't worn off mine yet Jan 17 23:27:04 I think some people will buy a bluetooth kbd Jan 17 23:27:17 And maybe some Trolls will help them out :) Jan 17 23:27:21 But I expect that I'll be getting a pocket bt kbd soonish Jan 17 23:27:39 there is one in OpieII.. but it needs work. it compiles but has painter problems since it was originally a qt2 app Jan 17 23:27:49 someone could Qt'ify konsole 4 Jan 17 23:28:06 ljp, My primary reason for purchasing the Neo was to be able to (eventually) access my servers in the event of an emergency, my job has me on call. Jan 17 23:28:14 hm, ljp, ever used something called yakuake? Jan 17 23:28:54 ljp: basically its a dropdown konsole. quite handy! maybe that idea could be somehow reused Jan 17 23:29:45 ljp: hence the name, it works like the terminal in quake (II and III) Jan 17 23:32:21 that does sound quite cool Jan 17 23:36:47 I have been working on porting konsole4 in my spare time, I am half way though getting it compiling. but with 2 small kids, I have no real spare time anymore Jan 17 23:38:03 ljp: send the kids to the mines, make em earn that living :) Jan 17 23:38:27 :D Jan 17 23:38:38 back to the industrialism? :P Jan 17 23:39:00 I plan to let my kids grow up feral for the first 5 years... and deal with the issue slater Jan 17 23:40:06 are bluetooth and mac addresses assigned by the same authority? Jan 17 23:40:06 heh Jan 17 23:40:32 clearly, the solution is to teach the kids to code Jan 17 23:40:45 * kristian-m just found out that sony and apple are using the same id-space for mac and bluetooth addresses Jan 17 23:41:31 Stephmw: one has only started being able to sit for a few minutes.. but... ok! Jan 17 23:44:46 ljp: they don't even need to sit up... crawling is fine Jan 17 23:45:03 hmmm.. she cant do that, but can roll Jan 17 23:48:10 ljp: How old is your older child? Jan 17 23:48:53 2 years 4 months Jan 17 23:49:12 I have a 3yr, 6 yr, and 12 yr old Jan 17 23:49:47 The baby + toddler simultaneously thing is a bit rough :-) Jan 17 23:50:35 heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 18 02:59:57 2008