**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 03 02:59:56 2008 Feb 03 03:00:42 SpeedEvil: there are no recommended dividers, only PLL settings Feb 03 03:01:00 SpeedEvil: by dividers I mean the things which turn FCLK into HCLK and HCLK into PCLK Feb 03 03:01:11 SpeedEvil: CLKDIVN in the manual Feb 03 03:01:31 SpeedEvil: originally I was using 1:2:4 for the non-slow modes and 1:1:1 for the slow modes Feb 03 03:02:11 SpeedEvil: now I'm using 1:2:4 for speeds above 133000, 1:1:2 for speeds below it but above 66500, and 1:1:1 for the rest Feb 03 03:02:15 ah Feb 03 03:02:37 Yeah - the 'right' way would be to actaully compute it Feb 03 03:02:37 SpeedEvil: sorry for being confusing with the terminology ;-) Feb 03 03:02:45 and use the minimum possible Feb 03 03:03:09 that's not really very trivial to work out though Feb 03 03:03:26 SpeedEvil: but that wouldn't fit in the cpufreq infrastructure at all... and I'm already bending it a bit :D Feb 03 03:04:00 SpeedEvil: the problem is that cpufreq only thinks about one clock, the cpu clock. I'm dealing with FOUR related clocks. Feb 03 03:04:32 SpeedEvil: I had to do some hacks to pass the four clocks down to the notifiers... Feb 03 03:05:24 SpeedEvil: it also expects drivers to work in a range of frequencies. But (except for the picky serial driver) they work in a range of _divided_ frequencies, and the divider changes, meaning it's not a nice range when sorted by FCLK Feb 03 03:07:24 Ickyness: Feb 03 03:08:17 Pretend that possible-clock-frequency N is really several possible similar frequencies one for each divisor setting ordered in order of power use Feb 03 03:09:31 SpeedEvil: that won't work, due to the way the cpufreq governors work Feb 03 03:10:02 SpeedEvil: they call a function called "target" and pass it the requested frequency... but they have no ideas which frequencies the driver can use Feb 03 03:10:36 SpeedEvil: the driver is responsible for rounding it (up or down, the governor tells the driver which) to the nearest frequency and using that Feb 03 03:10:50 I was assuming that your code to pick valid freqs could be abused Feb 03 03:11:09 valid given the current operating state. Feb 03 03:11:11 SpeedEvil: ah, I get it Feb 03 03:11:20 SpeedEvil: marking the nonworking ones as not valid... Feb 03 03:11:30 yeah Feb 03 03:11:50 SpeedEvil: but if I do it that way, I could instead mark in another table which option to use Feb 03 03:11:59 indeed Feb 03 03:12:27 SpeedEvil: so for instance 45000 could be in fact three "options", but only one would be in use at one time Feb 03 03:12:34 yes Feb 03 03:13:09 SpeedEvil: I don't know if that would save much... the bus probably isn't much of a power waster Feb 03 03:13:55 It's not the bus typically -- it's the stuff attached to it. Feb 03 03:14:45 SpeedEvil: and it would be of limited use on gta02, where you would need to tie the cpu to the bus frequency to change its frequency (the gta02 pll isn't as flexible, but the bus clock dividers are, and I saw a bit to make the cpu use the bus frequencies) Feb 03 03:15:11 I need to read that datasheet properly Feb 03 03:25:24 SpeedEvil: btw - u know about this:http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/ELCEurope2007Presentations?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ELC_2007_Linux_clock_fmw.pdf Feb 03 03:25:31 SpeedEvil: btw - u know about this: http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/ELCEurope2007Presentations?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ELC_2007_Linux_clock_fmw.pdf Feb 03 03:25:35 there Feb 03 03:25:47 are those the same? Feb 03 03:25:50 yeah Feb 03 03:25:56 just added the space befroe http Feb 03 03:25:56 :) Feb 03 03:26:00 * SpeedEvil looks at Feb 03 03:26:13 a multi-clock shifting arch Feb 03 03:29:33 that seems to be interesting. Feb 03 03:29:42 heard about it last week Feb 03 03:29:42 * SpeedEvil wishes again NXP would ship small quantites. Feb 03 03:29:47 thought it might be relevant to you Feb 03 03:29:49 ) Feb 03 03:30:04 cesarb is the one doing the coding ATM. Feb 03 03:30:20 raster: interesting, but not much new there Feb 03 03:30:34 AIUI much of that is implemented Feb 03 03:30:57 (small quantities of FM I2C radio chips to be specific) Feb 03 03:31:07 cesarb: havent looked to deeply into it Feb 03 03:31:09 it is a talk Feb 03 03:31:09 raster: more of a "this should exist" kind of thing (the interface described in the first half of slides is already there, but doesn't do much other than enabling/disabling and get_rate(), at least on arm) Feb 03 03:31:13 no idea whats behind it all Feb 03 03:31:26 SpeedEvil, they won't sample you a couple? Feb 03 03:31:31 little social engineering ;) Feb 03 03:31:47 some makers do free samples easily Feb 03 03:31:51 NXP doesn't Feb 03 03:32:02 oh, that's too bad Feb 03 03:32:09 The nicest ones even let you buy small quantities online. Feb 03 03:32:20 my brother's built up a pretty good library of chips from samples :) Feb 03 03:32:29 I'm currently getting annoyed at lack of ability to buy 'wierd' parts. Feb 03 03:32:56 I2C FM radio, JPEG codec and such. Feb 03 03:32:59 is it used in any cheap products? could you de-solder it from a $5 toy? Feb 03 03:33:04 In ones that is. Feb 03 03:33:22 I'd like to be able to go into small scale production for some of this. Feb 03 03:33:34 For which desoldeirng is annoying. Feb 03 03:33:43 heh, very true Feb 03 03:33:47 For example, a FM radio module that plugs into your neos debug port Feb 03 03:34:00 * * OM Bug 1213 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info Feb 03 03:34:01 * * Bluetooth Power Toggle doesn't work from neod menu. Feb 03 03:34:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1213 Feb 03 03:42:00 * * OM Bug 1214 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info Feb 03 03:42:01 * * Typo in Bluetooth Status change popup Feb 03 03:42:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1214 Feb 03 03:51:01 * * OM Bug 1215 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info Feb 03 03:51:02 * * Solo is unplayable Feb 03 03:51:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1215 Feb 03 04:11:40 i hate to say this, but if the neo's hardware can't do video playback, then we really should just scrap it and start over. i hope fic is looking into this a bit closer. Feb 03 04:12:53 it will its just noone has written the graphics accel yet (from what i understand) Feb 03 04:13:20 freerunner definitely will Feb 03 04:13:21 i had heard that it's a hardware problem Feb 03 04:13:34 that it's not powerful enough Feb 03 04:15:08 or i should say, not powerful enough to play decent resolution at a decent framerate Feb 03 04:26:12 matthew_: its a phone - not a portable media player Feb 03 04:26:46 we arnt scrapping phones because you dont get your high-def h264 playback :) Feb 03 04:26:47 :) Feb 03 04:27:42 i think that's a mistake Feb 03 04:28:07 scrapping a whole hardware line is a bigger one Feb 03 04:28:15 the costs involved in creatign it are huge Feb 03 04:28:38 like 7 digits Feb 03 04:30:04 it's not going to crossover past enthusiasts unless it can player videos at a decent res. not unless you can price it to compete with the razr Feb 03 04:30:33 have u got a gta02? Feb 03 04:30:42 or a gta01? Feb 03 04:31:51 no Feb 03 04:32:39 then... i suggest you get one before commenting :):) Feb 03 04:32:57 though gta02 isnt available.. yet Feb 03 04:32:58 ok Feb 03 04:33:00 gotta run Feb 03 04:33:03 ... Feb 03 04:33:14 commenting based on what developers have said Feb 03 04:33:47 no one outside of openmoko has a gta02 (or specific contractors) Feb 03 04:33:51 I'd really think that the Neo (and Freerunner's) audience wouldn't exactly care. I mean, there's a plethora of devices that can do that. Either they already have them (and don't need a Freerunner) or they don't have them because they want somehting MORE from their device that what already exists (like Freedom). Feb 03 04:33:52 * mwester reads the discussion, tosses his neo into the trash can, and goes off to work on something that can play video -- after all, playing porn on your cell phone is why one buys a cell phone in the first place -- everybody knows that! Feb 03 04:34:06 gta01 is capable of video playback - maybe not fulslcreen. but it can Feb 03 04:34:09 its enough grunt Feb 03 04:34:22 for the standard crappy videos u see on featurephones Feb 03 04:34:25 ie qvga or less Feb 03 04:34:30 The screen is too small for any useful video playback anyway. Feb 03 04:34:36 the code simply isnt good enouhg to do it well Feb 03 04:34:39 anyway Feb 03 04:34:40 bbl Feb 03 04:35:13 Who want's to watch a video on a cell phone anyway? (I've never been able to figure that out anyway. I mean, can you even tell what sport the players are playing, for example? Feb 03 04:35:18 ) Feb 03 04:35:36 ice - hockey on a phone must be good Feb 03 04:35:42 hehe! Feb 03 04:35:47 mwester, The best I can imagine that would be useful, in all honesty, is YouTube. Feb 03 04:36:04 Crappy quality, pointless, caters to short attention span. Feb 03 04:36:08 it's good for travel Feb 03 04:36:15 Yeah, and youtube sure has *loads* of video that *I* want to watch (<- sarcasm) Feb 03 04:36:28 mwester, you old git Feb 03 04:36:31 :) Feb 03 04:36:50 The only good thing I saw on youtube was "will it blend?" Feb 03 04:36:51 matthew_, I like having features, don't get me wrong. But seriously, what can you POSSIBLY do with video playback on a Neo that is SO important the lack of it is a "deal-breaker"? Feb 03 04:37:05 mwester, git being of course one of highest terms of praise.... Feb 03 04:37:10 :P Feb 03 04:37:32 * mwester watched Monty Python, and knows better... :) Feb 03 04:37:52 mwester, There are YouTube videos of someone demonstrating the OpenMoko browser and Media Player. :) Those are neat, I think. Feb 03 04:37:54 kdean06: it's a deal breaker because I have limited pocket space. If my 6 year old Zire 71 can do decent video playback, a brand new smartphone should be able to no problem. Feb 03 04:38:22 matthew_, it can just not yet..... Feb 03 04:38:37 well i hope you are right on that Feb 03 04:38:46 matthew_, go and look at the kernel page on wiki to see the things they are concentrating on.... Feb 03 04:38:58 I dunno, personally, I don't think of Neo as a smartphone. I think of the iPhone as one, and it doesn't appeal to me one bit. Neo is a libre phone, and I dropped cash for that. Feb 03 04:39:09 matthew_: It's a little more complicated than that. There are compromises that must be made in the design based on the features that need to be supported, and video playback is a serious demand on certain resources. Feb 03 04:39:22 I don't see anything particularly special about OpenMoko and the hardware aside from the freedom standpoint. Feb 03 04:39:39 Again, it was that aspect that sold me the unit. Feb 03 04:40:17 Yeah, the hardware is nothing ground-breaking. Other than it's open (in most ways, anyway). Feb 03 04:40:33 kdean06: sure, but NIC is not going to turn a profit selling strickly to enthusiasts. Feb 03 04:40:38 Frankly, the iPhone is much more interesting from a design point-of-view. Feb 03 04:40:50 If you care about features above everything else, I'm sure you can find a restrictive product that you could buy tomorrow that will have all the features you want. Feb 03 04:40:58 But good luck getting any specs to write drivers from Apple on that!! Feb 03 04:41:43 one year ago neo1973 was a pretty advanced hardware imho Feb 03 04:41:48 matthew_: Openmoko (the software stack) will run on other hardware as well, ultimately. Feb 03 04:41:51 but everything's moved forward really fast Feb 03 04:41:57 matthew_, The biggest iPhone outrage was the lack of third-party development. Google is pushing forward with Android to ensure an open platform. Sure, people aren't going to say "Oh! Source code... Gotta buy that." but do an eBay search for "Unlocked" phones... Neo is one... Feb 03 04:42:04 * balrog-kun remembers drooling over the neo1973 hw Feb 03 04:42:19 mwester: good point, i look forward to the next openmoko-powered touch phone Feb 03 04:42:41 mwester: but i think android might have swallowed the market by that point Feb 03 04:42:46 * mwester hasn't found any hardware worth drooling over, but he sure likes the iPhone gui. Feb 03 04:42:50 balrog-kun, Everything moves fast... Except Freerunner's release. :P Feb 03 04:43:00 matthew_: Android is vaporware still. Feb 03 04:43:06 matthew_: And it's closed. Feb 03 04:43:16 matthew_: Plus, it's Java. Yuck. Feb 03 04:43:42 mwester: so is neo (vaporware, that is) Feb 03 04:43:56 matthew_, Really? I have one. :) Feb 03 04:44:08 Want pictures? Feb 03 04:44:09 "Mr. shopkeeper, I'd like to add a new app to my android-powered phone. I'll take one software application, and an additional 512MB of RAM, with a larger battery for my phone, please." Feb 03 04:44:22 http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/OpenMoko---My-first-impressions.html Feb 03 04:44:27 can you do anything with it besides throw it at birds ;) Feb 03 04:44:42 It's replaced my RAZR. Feb 03 04:44:53 I use it to call and send text messages. Feb 03 04:45:03 I occasionally listen to music. Feb 03 04:45:06 matthew_: If you give me your phone number, I can call you and you can hear the bird squawk when I hit it with the phone. Feb 03 04:45:35 Frak... Feb 03 04:45:44 has the battery already died by the time you get to work in the morning? ;) Feb 03 04:45:48 I need to remvoe the trackback stuff from my site. :( Feb 03 04:45:53 No. Feb 03 04:46:14 Actually, it lasted me several hours today and still showed full charge... WHich surprised me, honestly. Feb 03 04:46:27 I've had it die after a few hours. :( Feb 03 04:46:32 But it did well today. :) Feb 03 04:46:43 battery applet dead? Feb 03 04:46:47 No. Feb 03 04:46:55 Phone was just still working. :) Feb 03 04:47:17 matthew_, I review each nightly build -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-01-31 Feb 03 04:47:22 That's the latest snapshot. Feb 03 04:48:49 i've read those, they are quite good Feb 03 04:49:49 a year ago the answer to those questions was usually "no" Feb 03 04:49:58 Three weeks ago. :) Feb 03 04:50:22 SMS is still the "new" feature and it went from nothing to working well almost overnight. Feb 03 04:50:31 but it still sounds like release is several months away, not a few Feb 03 04:51:00 I'm blown away at how many people misinterpret that... Feb 03 04:51:06 i thought sms had been there for a while Feb 03 04:51:34 matthew_, The Freerunner hardware will be released in a few months. OpenMoko will not go "Mass market" until the software is ready, and they've NEVER publicly speculated to when that will be. Feb 03 04:52:04 The Freerunner hardware will not be released the same day as mass market. Feb 03 04:52:35 huh? Feb 03 04:52:40 There's going to be a developer-only release like the GTA01 has now, and focus will shift to the software. Feb 03 04:52:42 freerunner is a development version? Feb 03 04:53:40 well, i can tell you why people misinterpret that, it's scattered all over the openmoko webpage that gta02 = mass market ;) Feb 03 04:53:47 No, it is the same hardware that will eventually make it mass market. But the first hardware will ship to developers, like the GTA01 currently does. The release of Freerunner and the mass market release are NOT the same event. Feb 03 04:54:19 No, it says Free Runner WILL BE mass market it does NOT say "will be mass market from day 1" which MANY people assume. Feb 03 04:55:26 well, i never paid attention to the release dates anyways Feb 03 04:55:37 following the development gives you a pretty good idea of the timeline involved Feb 03 04:56:39 * Kero should whip up a webpage to release his gsmd testing tool... Feb 03 04:56:49 ... tomorrow :) Feb 03 04:57:09 I have no direct ties to OpenMoko Inc so I really don't care what their business plan is as long as they sell me the hardware. I care long run, cause I want GTA03 too. :) But if Freerunner is available to me in March, I'll buy it, and I don't care if it ever goes mainstream. Feb 03 04:57:38 thats about how i feel lol Feb 03 04:57:41 My phones have traditionally expended what I do with my phones, not the other way around. Feb 03 04:57:58 Until I got my Neo, I didn't care about music playback. Feb 03 04:58:06 And until I got my RAZR, I never used SMS. :) Feb 03 04:58:20 i still don't use sms Feb 03 04:58:24 Freerunner might make me think Wifi is important. :) Feb 03 04:58:31 too expensive Feb 03 04:58:50 SMS = Included in my service plan. :) Feb 03 04:58:54 wifi + im client = free sms equivalent Feb 03 04:59:03 SMS, Voice, Data all unlimited for me. Feb 03 04:59:11 i guess you live in europe Feb 03 04:59:12 * smlsfb hates sms pricing in the US Feb 03 04:59:14 USA Feb 03 04:59:26 I live outside of Washington DC. Feb 03 04:59:32 WAY outside. :P Feb 03 04:59:37 what carrier Feb 03 04:59:48 T-Mobile... been with them for 5 years and I love them. Feb 03 04:59:56 ohh, i have t-mobile too Feb 03 05:00:09 Contract or pay as you go? Feb 03 05:00:15 you don't really have free sms, you are paying for a package that includes unlimited Feb 03 05:00:17 kdean06, steady ..... they are only a phone co Feb 03 05:01:05 what is "pay as you go"? Feb 03 05:01:12 br3n, I know, but they've given me good customer service, excellent call quality, free upgrades for loyalty (they brought it up, not me)... Feb 03 05:01:24 ok enuff already Feb 03 05:01:44 matthew_, Where you buy blocks of minutes and refill as you use them. Feb 03 05:01:55 Okay.. Feb 03 05:01:55 prepaid, you mean? Feb 03 05:01:59 Yeah. Feb 03 05:02:09 ohh, no. not under contract either though Feb 03 05:02:38 Okay, you're right... I do pay for unlimited SMS, but I suppose the "feature" that's good is not having to think about what my useage costs. Feb 03 05:02:38 my contract expired a long time ago Feb 03 05:02:49 If I had to pay like $0.10 a SMS I'd never use it. Feb 03 05:03:04 Or if i had to think "Do I have minutes?" I'd never use it. Feb 03 05:05:21 wait a second, you have unlimited minutes too? Feb 03 05:08:17 just for the record Feb 03 05:08:23 i'm a developer and want my GTa02 =p Feb 03 05:09:17 * vininim reading the irc buffer Feb 03 05:10:04 i'm a developer too, i write bash scripts. send me a free neo ;) Feb 03 05:10:05 matthew_, I honestly don't know. Either I have unlimited or more that I use. Feb 03 05:10:52 kdean06: must be more than you use, i don't think an unlimited plan exists, unless it's unadvertised and super duper expensive. i have the lowest plan and still have more than i use ;) Feb 03 05:11:36 AT&T unlimited SMS is $30 for the whole family Feb 03 05:11:48 I know I do have some "unadvertised" features. I DO have unlimited free data on both phones as a loyalty bonus. Feb 03 05:12:30 KrisAbsinthe_, Ouch. :( Feb 03 05:12:33 loyalty bonus, wtf? Feb 03 05:13:08 I have 5 lines we send about 6000 messages a month so $30 is ok Feb 03 05:14:11 Okay, I suppose that's not too bad then. Feb 03 05:14:14 Well... Feb 03 05:14:16 Hrm.. Feb 03 05:14:20 Somewhere in the middle. :) Feb 03 05:15:06 t-mobile is $15. i'd probably get it if it were $5 Feb 03 05:15:11 yeah, when I get the GTA02 ill give my wife the 01 and get a unlimited data plan....bet that will suck Feb 03 05:15:47 I THINK (but not sure) unlimited SMS is one of the features that CAN'T be put on a single T-Mobile line and it's $4.99 Feb 03 05:16:17 gimme a sec and i'll check (i have a single tmobile line) Feb 03 05:17:26 Ha ha ha ha. Feb 03 05:17:35 "any 400 domestic messages: 4.99" Feb 03 05:17:37 They won't let me change services because they dont' recognize the Neo. :) Feb 03 05:17:41 1000 for 9.99 Feb 03 05:17:56 Wow, you're right! Feb 03 05:18:04 I never realized it wasn't unlimited .:P Feb 03 05:18:24 Guess $30 for unlimited on 5 lines is pretty good then. :) Feb 03 05:18:33 now that you know, you will go over lol Feb 03 05:18:45 the thing about sms is, most people don't have unlimited plans, so they are stingy about using it. i know i am (i have no sms plan at all). Feb 03 05:18:53 t-mobileweb is 5.99 Feb 03 05:19:01 but it doesn't say anything about limits Feb 03 05:19:05 smlsfb, But what the Neo uses is $19.99. :) Feb 03 05:19:08 but it also doesn't say 'unlimited' Feb 03 05:19:41 unlimited texts for 14.99 Feb 03 05:19:42 smlsfb, T-Zones is a sub-set, it's nto full internet. But that IS unlimited (but downloads are pay-for-click) Feb 03 05:20:08 no, the t-mobileweb looks like the gprs part Feb 03 05:20:20 hotspot is 19.99, and that looks like t-zones Feb 03 05:20:45 hotspot: Make the most of your time -- get unlimited high-speed wireless Internet access for your PDA or laptop at places you already go, including Starbucks, FedEx Kinko's, Borders Books and Music stores, Hyatt hotels, and airports. Feb 03 05:20:51 T-Mobile Total Internet Add-on (valued at $19.99) Feb 03 05:20:58 t-mobileweb: Search the mobile web, find directions to the places you want to go, get local, international and financial news, stock quotes, weather, sports, play online games, email, community chat and more, right at your fingertips anywhere you go. Feb 03 05:21:09 huh, i don't see that option Feb 03 05:21:18 i must not be a "loyal" customer ;) Feb 03 05:21:35 smlsfb, Log in, it will be one of your options to the side under the services menu. Feb 03 05:22:07 yeah, i'm under change plan & services Feb 03 05:22:11 It shows on my bill, I just get it credited. It's essentially the data plan they put on their Blackberries. Feb 03 05:22:27 smlsfb: i've been with t-mobile since it was called powertel, 1999ish and i've never been offered any loyalty upgrades. Feb 03 05:22:40 Ouch. :( Feb 03 05:22:47 i've only owned a cell phone for about ... 18 months now Feb 03 05:22:59 but tmobile has been pretty nice to me Feb 03 05:23:04 matthew_, Have you been floating your contract the whole time? Feb 03 05:23:10 they are nice to me too Feb 03 05:23:15 i had problems getting random texts because i got a recycled number Feb 03 05:23:30 did you know they will not disable texts for you? Feb 03 05:23:34 i'm sure they only offer freebies to big spender, i generally have had one of the lowest priced contracts available for most of that time Feb 03 05:23:46 my plan is 29.99 :) Feb 03 05:24:16 smlsfb: yes, i have gotten spam sms too. what you do is go on the website and block out texts from your tmobile email address Feb 03 05:24:24 so they credited the texts and gave a couple free ones instead Feb 03 05:24:46 i think they tried that Feb 03 05:24:50 i don't get them anymore tho Feb 03 05:24:53 matthew_, I'm in my account right now and my plan is "low".. I suppose I just never use them. I'm on the lowest "Family Share Plan" - 700 minutes. I've got the 400 SMS add-on and I've got the T-Mobile Total Internet Add-on which I get credited for. Feb 03 05:25:03 I'm not a "big spender" I think. Feb 03 05:25:20 they must just hate me i guess Feb 03 05:25:26 kdean06, what do you mean you get 'credited' for the internet add-on? Feb 03 05:25:31 charged and then refunded? Feb 03 05:25:40 matthew_, Does the panel not say anything about "Upgrades" on the side? Feb 03 05:26:05 I know at the LEAST, after you complete a 2-year contract they give you 50% off a new phone. Feb 03 05:26:26 And I'm SURE that's the case, they put a little blow in card with your bill. :) Feb 03 05:27:17 btw, does anyone use t-mobile in NY with the gta01? is 850 coverage a problem at all? Feb 03 05:27:50 smlsfb, Yes. It shows on my list as if I'm paying for it, but it also shows that amount being credited on my bill each month. Feb 03 05:28:30 nice :) Feb 03 05:28:37 ask patrick davilla in a couple days Feb 03 05:28:42 do you contact them a lot or something? Feb 03 05:28:59 Once a month. :) Feb 03 05:29:07 you pay over the phone? Feb 03 05:29:08 And I enclose money. Feb 03 05:29:18 No, I pay online. Feb 03 05:29:19 KrisAbsinthe_, is he getting the modded gta01? Feb 03 05:29:23 ezpay? Feb 03 05:29:30 Yeah, i had it first heheh Feb 03 05:29:34 My bank's online pay. Feb 03 05:29:43 hah, lucky :) Feb 03 05:29:52 just wondering when you're talking to them that they're offering you free stuff Feb 03 05:30:11 matthew_, When I call them for my upgrades every year. :) Feb 03 05:30:33 we have a wiki set up he will update it soon,, but there are coverage maps on there too, by frequencies Feb 03 05:30:34 heh, you call and say "i want something free?" i might have to try that Feb 03 05:30:41 You don't always do that? Feb 03 05:30:49 heh, no Feb 03 05:31:00 yeah, i was watching that page and the mailing list Feb 03 05:31:01 matthew_, No joke, I DO that all the time. You'd be AMAZED at how often they do it. Feb 03 05:31:28 geez, that's awesome Feb 03 05:31:29 matthew_, My love of T-Mobile comes from giving me free things, and I really DO recommend them... It's worth it to them. Feb 03 05:32:02 Call them and say "I've been a memeber for X years and Iv'e never been told about the upgrade plans. I want free data, can you do that for me?" Feb 03 05:32:57 Or whatever... A new phone, sms... Feb 03 05:32:57 i don't know, i'm not that kind of person. it's not in my blood to ask for handouts Feb 03 05:33:20 Your loss. :) Feb 03 05:33:56 plus i'm using an unrecognized phone Feb 03 05:34:04 I'd not walk up to a stranger and ask for free stuff (unless that stranger was the representitive of a company). Feb 03 05:34:27 But I pay them, and they want me to be a customer so they make it worthwhile for me. :) Feb 03 05:34:40 i might have to do it Feb 03 05:35:05 matthew_, Have you ever seen this? -> http://www.the39dollarexperiment.com/ Feb 03 05:35:59 hah, that sounds like a good idea Feb 03 05:36:43 that site inspired me. :) Feb 03 05:37:12 I'm not poor, I'm just cheap. I make a killing at trade shows. :) Feb 03 05:37:22 I've got a USB Lava lamp from Intel. :) Feb 03 05:38:31 I dunno if lava lamp is right... Same premise, fluid inside, light below but it's got glitter in clear fluid, not the waxy stuff. Feb 03 05:39:16 don't put it on a stove Feb 03 05:39:29 lol Feb 03 05:39:36 that would be stupid....but the microwave...... Feb 03 05:40:31 My microwave is reserved for CD-Rs Feb 03 05:41:02 and kittens Feb 03 05:41:19 ~lart KrisAbsinthe_ Feb 03 05:41:20 * apt calls KrisAbsinthe_ on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home Feb 03 05:41:35 :( Feb 03 05:41:59 I like kittens. One of my junk email addresses is currently beercat6. :) Feb 03 05:42:21 have you seen that dune-cat image Feb 03 05:43:11 * mwester inserts the *third* n800 battery for today into the charger... Feb 03 05:44:00 Weird... I just noticed... I think I know where that guys lives. :) Feb 03 05:48:12 what guy Feb 03 05:49:06 i always wondered where companies got "real customer testimonials" Feb 03 05:49:22 now i understand that it was just some people trying to get free stuff by buttering them up :) Feb 03 05:50:55 KrisAbsinthe_, The guy who did http://www.the39dollarexperiment.com/ Feb 03 05:51:46 the stuff he got isn't worth the time imo Feb 03 05:53:00 Do you buy any of those products? Feb 03 05:53:10 I'd LOVE a free tube of Carmex. :) Feb 03 05:53:44 Plus, the idea of getting free stuff is cool on it's own. :P Feb 03 05:53:53 I'm not too keen on coupons. :I( Feb 03 05:54:07 yeah, i don't do coupons Feb 03 05:54:57 Coupons are sometimes useful. It's rebates that are the all-time ripoff. Feb 03 05:55:09 http://www.totallyfreecrap.com/ Feb 03 05:55:20 i prefer rebates to coupons Feb 03 05:55:43 feel like a bum using coupons Feb 03 05:55:45 the people at my last apartment are probably *still* getting random things Feb 03 05:56:37 Tigerdirect.com sent me to some online place to claim a rebate last time I ordered from them; the ******* forced me to give them a valid email address in order to get my rebate. SPAM, SPAM, SPAM. (of course I gave them a fake email, but still...) Feb 03 05:58:21 I'm the opposite... I HATE rebates.. Like "I buy this item, which you CAN sell for $50 less than you normally do, but you make ME send in all that crap... Feb 03 05:59:00 I don't carry coupons because I buy everything on impulse. Feb 03 05:59:07 Whatever happened to SALES? Feb 03 06:01:38 i don't do coupons because i feel cheap bringing out a piece of paper to get 15 cents off a can of soup. i can do rebates from the privacy of my home and no one can judge me! Feb 03 06:01:53 lol Feb 03 06:02:23 It seems that the person in your statement was you. :P You feel cheap using coupons even if nobody sees? Feb 03 06:02:46 You know... The rebate handler people... Their job is to send you money. Feb 03 06:03:03 Can you really go home pissed from a day of doing that? Feb 03 06:03:50 Unless it's one of those places that really suck that take pride in finding issues with the form... Feb 03 06:03:55 sure, sounds lieka thankless job Feb 03 06:04:55 not sure about you, but i didn't dream about becoming some random guy who processes paperwork when i was a kid. Feb 03 06:05:25 so... how is NASA going? Feb 03 06:05:57 lol Feb 03 06:06:27 heh Feb 03 06:06:56 matthew_, Reminds me of a line from "What I learned from the movies" "Sure, Star Wars taught us to embrace our galactic destiny... That's all well and good when your destiny is cool like Lukes, but it sucks for the guy who's destined to clean toilets." Feb 03 07:04:16 KrisAbsinthe_: still awake? Feb 03 10:17:11 hello Feb 03 10:17:26 "speaks" moko OpenGL and SDL? Feb 03 10:18:03 i heard moko has a graphicprozessor for 2d/3d-acceleration... Feb 03 10:22:33 2d only Feb 03 10:22:53 3d won't have drivers in the forseeable future Feb 03 10:23:23 and what's the actual status? Feb 03 10:23:23 i just read openmoco.org Feb 03 10:23:29 there were 2 modells Feb 03 10:23:36 a "beta" modell and a final model Feb 03 10:24:00 when will the final version be released? Feb 03 10:24:24 or is this in the shop the final version? Feb 03 10:26:24 oh, "...products are not meant for the end user..." Feb 03 10:26:42 no. Feb 03 10:26:53 Expect it in shops at the very earliest christmas Feb 03 10:26:59 and that's very unlikely Feb 03 10:27:31 It'll be available earlier - likely - but not polished to a state shops'd want to buy it Feb 03 10:28:58 are there hardware-differences between the developer- and final version? Feb 03 10:29:12 yes Feb 03 10:29:22 damn... Feb 03 10:29:23 no wifi or accel chip Feb 03 10:30:30 "It'll be available earlier - likely - but not polished to a state shops'd want to buy it" how do you mean that? Feb 03 10:32:15 hopefully, hardware will be well tested, and gta02 will go on sale with an incomplete user interface Feb 03 10:32:56 but the difference to the version in shops will only be software, right? Feb 03 10:33:22 Probably Feb 03 10:33:30 that's the plan at the moment. Feb 03 10:33:56 mobile phone shops will only stock something ready for users Feb 03 10:34:30 i'd buy a phone with software in beta Feb 03 10:34:43 so i can upgrade to final Feb 03 10:35:02 i have to go, cu Feb 03 10:45:55 Does anyone know how to set the timezone on the neo1973? Feb 03 10:46:37 tzconfig? Feb 03 10:46:41 rwhitby had a blog post about that Feb 03 10:47:11 Taco: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/setting-the-openmoko-timezone.html Feb 03 10:47:11 Thanks - I'll look at that. Feb 03 10:47:22 A bit old, but I guess it's still valid Feb 03 10:47:41 Thanks CM! Feb 03 10:56:54 If I may hazard another question - I just installed a newer version of rootfs, and with this version the keyboard for things like the terminal application is a phone-keyboard style widget. I guess this is now used so that you don't need a stylus. But I far preferred the old keyboard which did not require multiple presses to produce letters. Is there any way I can use the old keyboard widget that *did* require a stylus? Feb 03 10:58:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards Feb 03 10:59:36 Thank-you. Feb 03 11:42:36 hi Feb 03 12:07:45 does enyone now why there is this "cat /tmp/nmeaNP | gzip > /home/root/gps.gz" in the gllin startup script? Feb 03 12:08:25 save fix to aid hot start? Feb 03 12:08:37 but i would think that would be implemented in the module itself Feb 03 12:10:54 it's to output the gps log to /root/gps.gz Feb 03 12:11:01 The NMEA stream Feb 03 12:17:38 smlsfb: as far as I can see it is working without when the GPS was already running for a while Feb 03 12:18:09 that's fair Feb 03 12:18:13 * smlsfb was just guessing :) Feb 03 12:18:48 SpeedEvil: yea but gllin already writes logs.. Feb 03 12:22:08 any news on when it will be released public? Feb 03 12:22:28 tis now Feb 03 12:22:44 glin that is Feb 03 12:22:49 has been a while back Feb 03 12:23:03 yeah gllin seems to crash on startup if the nmeaNP is not open for reading Feb 03 12:23:03 its not ready for end users right? Feb 03 12:23:09 oh Feb 03 12:23:14 No - the phone isnt' Feb 03 12:23:24 smlsfb: good guess... ;) Feb 03 12:26:09 mjr: that was not the problem gpsd should already read from nmeaNP but as far as I see it is not reading fast enough Feb 03 12:27:26 Frostshock: I still can not take Phone calls with it Feb 03 12:33:51 Anyway I modified the gpsd init script to create the nmeaNP so gpsd is started in Background Feb 03 12:39:36 zem_, was that how it was used? Feb 03 12:40:53 smlsfb: almost, I didn't know excactly, just what I have seen while debugging Feb 03 12:41:35 cool :) Feb 03 12:42:45 * smlsfb thinks the gta02 release is too close to justify buying a gta01 ... Feb 03 12:42:53 unless someone wants to sell theirs cheap :) Feb 03 12:43:20 I'll sell mine for only one ounce of gold. Feb 03 12:43:36 before or after it crashes :) Feb 03 12:45:07 I have real doubts that gold will crash soon Feb 03 12:45:15 Especially as measured against gold. Feb 03 12:45:20 smlsfb: Oh, It is every Time the same think, you buy your device 3 Weeks bevor the new one comes out. Feb 03 12:45:47 I'd bet a fairly large amount that it'll be >>$300 for the next few years Feb 03 12:45:54 smlsfb: in 3 Weeks this law will not be changed. Feb 03 12:46:10 Especially measured against the us dollar. Feb 03 12:47:12 zem_, thats why i buy most things used, but i really want a gta02 Feb 03 12:47:23 <3 wifi. it's all over my college campus Feb 03 12:49:18 smlsfb: I already have WiFi within my Nokia but I used it very rarely in the past. Feb 03 12:49:39 i use it all the time on my palm tx Feb 03 12:49:40 tghe 02 is more useful Feb 03 12:49:48 but i hate carrying my tx and my cell phone Feb 03 12:49:54 4x the built-in flash (64->256) Feb 03 12:49:57 faster cpu Feb 03 12:50:05 (400 not 266 - capable of 500 with tweaks) Feb 03 12:50:18 the 802.11 alone though should be worth it Feb 03 12:50:23 are 8gb microsd available yet? Feb 03 12:50:42 anyway. Feb 03 12:50:43 or is max still 4gb Feb 03 12:51:04 I'd say it's very unlikly that it'll be availble in march. Feb 03 12:51:23 8G is availale Feb 03 12:51:25 and works Feb 03 12:51:30 :) Feb 03 12:51:53 SpeedEvil, isn't it not possible just to make an early release of the gta02 hardware, atleast for developers? Feb 03 12:52:03 I was meaning for purchase Feb 03 12:52:21 i'll buy a developer version Feb 03 12:52:31 it seems likely that they will test internally new hardware, then test it externally, then and only then put it on sale. Feb 03 12:53:02 seems fair, given some people's complaints about batteries and usability of 01 Feb 03 12:53:18 There is nothing wrong with the battery in 01. Feb 03 12:53:29 It's solely a software problem. Feb 03 12:53:38 right, but people are complaining about it. or at least one person very loudly Feb 03 12:54:41 * Stephmw shrugs Feb 03 12:54:45 smlsfb: no gta02's are going anywhere until we have it ready to go - hardware debugged etc. and all Feb 03 12:55:01 I've never expected anything in prototypes to work properly, and certainly not power management Feb 03 12:55:08 raster: is there actual hardware that might suit as a release produced? Feb 03 12:55:25 raster: or is it not even that far - the known buggy one still. Feb 03 12:55:32 raster, that sounds fair Feb 03 12:56:10 smlsfb: Another 'Ooops, it's triband' moment in a actual release phone would be horribly bad. Feb 03 12:56:15 SpeedEvil: i dont actually know Feb 03 12:56:27 smlsfb: Battery loading is a little bit tricky Feb 03 12:56:43 raster: K - I was just wondering if you'd gotten new hardware in the last month or so. Feb 03 12:56:56 SpeedEvil, yeah, i'm waiting for them to test the mod'd phone in NY Feb 03 12:57:05 smlsfb: but it iss a Software Problem Feb 03 12:57:19 SpeedEvil: i have a gta02a4 Feb 03 12:57:24 not even an a5 yet Feb 03 12:57:39 Battery would be almost completely solved if it powered off at 5% battery capacity. Feb 03 12:57:40 i got it mid-december or so Feb 03 12:57:47 before any a5's were done Feb 03 12:57:47 With minor uboot changes Feb 03 12:57:54 zem_, i understand that, but i still want wifi :) Feb 03 12:57:54 Is there A5 hardware? Feb 03 12:58:06 yes - there definitely is Feb 03 12:58:10 about 20 has been made Feb 03 12:58:54 The general assumption has been that these will be internally tested, then a batch will go out to external testers, then sales - like GTA01 - is this likely? Feb 03 12:59:05 smlsfb: you could use USB Wifi ;-) Feb 03 12:59:26 bluetooth wifi! Feb 03 12:59:37 zem_, ugh, a dongle? i bought my powerbook to get rid of the pcmcia card in my old laptop :) Feb 03 12:59:51 SpeedEvil, not as pervasive on my campus ;) Feb 03 13:00:36 SpeedEvil: thought about it. Feb 03 13:00:39 smlsfb: I was meaning a portable bluetooth-wifi gateway. Which can be done, but is admittedtly very, very silly Feb 03 13:02:22 s/can/has/ Feb 03 13:02:22 SpeedEvil meant: smlsfb: I was meaning a portable bluetooth-wifi gateway. Which has be done, but is admittedtly very, very silly Feb 03 13:03:09 work is over for me. time to go home Feb 03 13:03:18 good luck to everyone working on the neo Feb 03 13:04:38 SpeedEvil: for now all i know is the units are internal only Feb 03 13:04:48 i.e. internal om devs and contractors only Feb 03 13:04:54 and then only if they need one Feb 03 13:05:27 yea, I will take my shoes on, ans go for a ride, colecting some openstreetmap traces with the neo Feb 03 13:05:42 zem_: #osm over on irc.oftc.net Feb 03 13:06:57 there's a #openstreetmap on freenode too Feb 03 13:06:59 SpeedEvil: this Evening, OK? Have to Expose myself on Daylight Feb 03 13:07:35 Vegar: yeah - the irc.oftc one is 'official' - 111 users Feb 03 13:07:57 yeah, I know Feb 03 13:12:35 cu Feb 03 14:17:54 dunno if anybody is awake... if you are, I added a little video to my website, using tangoGPS on the neo. you can find it here: tangogps.org Feb 03 14:18:53 watch, then download and enjoy gps and osm maps on your neo! Feb 03 14:19:32 hi gamin Feb 03 14:19:40 where to get the package / ipkg? Feb 03 14:19:59 on the website Feb 03 14:20:14 currently i offer no feed Feb 03 14:20:32 but if there is demand, I can do Feb 03 14:25:02 ok, that worked Feb 03 14:25:06 lemme reboot Feb 03 14:25:34 * hhf423 just flashed a kernel and rootfs from 02 feb Feb 03 14:25:49 I wonder if SMS will not work Feb 03 14:26:06 hhf423: I'm running a recent build too. Feb 03 14:26:14 s/not/now Feb 03 14:26:22 the first time that sms works here Feb 03 14:26:55 send and receive. Feb 03 14:27:45 ah, that sounds promising :-) Feb 03 14:28:31 I may start to use it as my daily phone Feb 03 14:28:53 does powermanagement work now? Feb 03 14:29:10 hmm, bloody thing does not ask for PIN. I thought that issue was gone. Feb 03 14:29:25 didn't check. I'm most of the time close toa usb port... Feb 03 14:30:01 last time I checked I got about 2,5h Feb 03 14:30:33 I thought I get about 4h when screen off Feb 03 14:30:39 I need more than that to use it as my mobile :-) Feb 03 14:30:52 mintyboost? Feb 03 14:31:08 minty? Feb 03 14:32:02 awww, crap. does not ask for pin Feb 03 14:32:04 usb charger http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/ Feb 03 14:34:44 btw hhf423: does it work for you? Feb 03 14:35:06 tangogps? Feb 03 14:35:09 yes Feb 03 14:35:25 it starts with a map from europe Feb 03 14:35:42 yes Feb 03 14:35:54 how can I see if it is trying to get a fix? Feb 03 14:36:08 gpsd must be running Feb 03 14:36:46 connect to gpsd with "nc localhost 2947" and type "r" Feb 03 14:37:08 then you should see the nmea records Feb 03 14:37:47 root@fic-gta01:~$ nc localhost 2947 Feb 03 14:37:49 r Feb 03 14:37:51 GPSD,R=1 Feb 03 14:38:04 is gllin up? Feb 03 14:39:00 GPSD,R=1 <- means only gpsd is running but doesn't get anything from /tmp/nmeaNP Feb 03 14:39:39 ah Feb 03 14:39:48 right, gllin was probably not running Feb 03 14:44:02 I start gpsd with gpsd /tmp/nmeaNP &, yes? Feb 03 14:46:10 ah, gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP Feb 03 14:46:53 does work? Feb 03 14:47:43 the -n switch is there to keep gpsd reading /tnp/nmeaNP, because gllin dies otherwise Feb 03 14:49:33 root@fic-gta01:~$ ps -ef |grep gll Feb 03 14:49:35 root 1198 1197 0 12:07 ? 00:00:00 [gllin] Feb 03 14:49:39 is that normal? Feb 03 14:49:47 no Feb 03 14:49:54 that is a zombie Feb 03 14:51:57 hmm, looks like my gllin runs for like 5 seconds, then dies Feb 03 14:52:15 you have the ipkg gllin? Feb 03 14:52:50 yes Feb 03 14:52:57 you may try my script from the website Feb 03 14:53:07 gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Feb 03 14:53:19 I have that one too Feb 03 14:53:44 root@fic-gta01:~$ uname -a Feb 03 14:53:44 Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Thu Nov 29 19:02:42 CET 2007 armv4tl Feb 03 14:54:26 Linux fic-gta01 2.6.24-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Sat Feb 2 01:00:11 GMT 2008 armv4tl unknown Feb 03 14:54:47 wayyy too cutting edge :-) Feb 03 14:54:54 hey, I have a dinosaur there... Feb 03 14:56:26 let me downgrade a bit Feb 03 15:05:27 flashing done Feb 03 15:08:13 ok, now it asks for pin again Feb 03 15:09:33 configuring Feb 03 15:15:45 rebooting Feb 03 15:19:13 so, that looks better Feb 03 15:19:44 now I need a fix Feb 03 15:26:51 hhf423: got a fix? Feb 03 15:34:58 finally got a fix Feb 03 15:35:05 cool Feb 03 15:36:03 hmm, lost it again Feb 03 15:36:19 but tangogps did pinpoint my locaktion Feb 03 15:36:28 nice Feb 03 15:37:49 windowsupdate.com seems down Feb 03 15:37:50 oops Feb 03 15:38:36 good, a couple of people have now successfully tested it, I guess I an write an email to the list Feb 03 15:39:05 SpeedEvil: the end of the world is close :) Feb 03 15:39:16 hhf423: any other comments? Feb 03 15:39:46 Someone was asking on another channel Feb 03 15:39:59 They are usually sane, but decided to install windows XP today. Feb 03 15:40:03 gamin: no, because I lost my fix I can not raelly test anything :-) Feb 03 15:40:26 well, you can drag, zoom... Feb 03 15:40:55 right Feb 03 15:41:02 weher does it get its data from? Feb 03 15:41:22 openstreetmap.org Feb 03 15:41:43 french or not ? Feb 03 15:42:02 There is some french data in OSM Feb 03 15:42:21 pretty fast Feb 03 15:42:45 oh, my street is not one there. a few surrounding streets though Feb 03 15:42:59 Where are you hhf423 ? Feb 03 15:43:10 Ah germany. Feb 03 15:43:31 yep Feb 03 15:43:33 ah - www.windowsupdate.com works Feb 03 15:43:34 oops Feb 03 15:44:14 It's by nature quite variable. :) Feb 03 15:44:18 hhf423: google maps work too, but OSM is free :) Feb 03 15:44:27 est-ce qu'il y'a des francais ? merci Feb 03 15:44:30 In a very few places OSM is better than google et al. Feb 03 15:44:49 Seb`: ta question? Feb 03 15:45:05 alors voila probleme de gps Feb 03 15:45:14 quand je le lance, ca reste toujours sur le meme truc Feb 03 15:45:29 y'a aucun coordonnées Feb 03 15:45:57 Seb`: gllin marche? Feb 03 15:46:12 ben je le lance Feb 03 15:46:16 et quand je regarde les log Feb 03 15:46:21 y'a aucun coordonnée Feb 03 15:48:01 bon, c'est mieux de ecrire un mail sur la liste de diffusion... Feb 03 15:49:11 sauf qu'en anglais je suis nul =) Feb 03 15:49:15 personne va rien comprendre Feb 03 15:49:38 ce que je veux dire Feb 03 15:49:46 ce'st que cette ligne reste toujours pareille Feb 03 15:49:47 $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 Feb 03 15:51:02 Le GPS a besoin d'être près d'une fenêtre ou à l'extérieur pour obtenir un signal. Feb 03 15:52:18 Oh thanks SpeedEvil, I already felt bad for going against the netiquette, but seb is not identified and thus no pm possible Feb 03 15:52:29 je ne parlez pas francais, ...some neo's gps antenna just dont work well Feb 03 15:53:13 I have google-translate, and a little french. I personally don't see a problem with occasional quetions Feb 03 15:54:21 i try Feb 03 15:55:26 Seb`: i bought an extern antenne and since then it works just great Feb 03 16:02:10 an externe antenne ? Feb 03 16:02:47 stupid question: should the gps driver etc come with mokomakefile build? Feb 03 16:03:30 possibly, but it's a binary Feb 03 16:03:58 I do not seem to have any related items in rootfs and 3rd party ipk is giving me "bad magic" Feb 03 16:05:07 Seb`: you can attach an antenna to the gold plug on the side of your neo Feb 03 16:05:30 where build ? Feb 03 16:10:35 gamin: what would be the link for google? just to see if it works Feb 03 16:11:42 hlink for google? Feb 03 16:12:12 tangogps link to use google maps Feb 03 16:12:17 ah Feb 03 16:12:26 http://mt0.google.com/mt?n=404&v=w2.66&x=2&y=6&zoom=13&s=Gali Feb 03 16:12:46 hhf423: you need to tick inversed and Feb 03 16:13:06 hhf423: substitute 2 6 and 13 Feb 03 16:14:41 hhf423: "just to see if it works" == scientific fair use test, i assume ;) Feb 03 16:15:01 * * OM Bug 1216 has been created by audriusa(AT)bluewin.ch Feb 03 16:15:02 * * The text of the unselected tab in the tabbed pane (GtkNotebook) shows almost black on black. Feb 03 16:15:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1216 Feb 03 16:15:25 gamin: substitue the with what? Feb 03 16:16:18 hhf423: the link is just for one specific tile, thus x= and y= and zoom= must be %d Feb 03 16:16:28 and not 2,6,13... Feb 03 16:17:03 hmm, tango just crashed Feb 03 16:17:18 while trying to do a new source Feb 03 16:17:56 totally dead Feb 03 16:18:06 reboot Feb 03 16:18:13 hhf423: it was maybe downloading tiles, while you did? Feb 03 16:18:23 possibly Feb 03 16:18:29 hhf423: never had it crashing anything. Feb 03 16:18:48 can not restart it, rebooting the neo now Feb 03 16:19:00 hhf423: you may need to remove the gconf keys to get it running again Feb 03 16:19:17 ok Feb 03 16:20:02 hhf423: only if it crashes on start-up Feb 03 16:21:03 * gamin is still looking for some more beta testers of tangogps Feb 03 16:21:07 WOW Feb 03 16:21:16 I can get SMS with notification. Feb 03 16:21:27 this is soo impressive :-) Feb 03 16:21:40 yes, in 2008 :) Feb 03 16:24:26 Seb`: yes, works wonderful Feb 03 16:25:14 hahaha Feb 03 16:25:24 I can even send them! Feb 03 16:25:34 brilliant Feb 03 16:26:08 I can not see the number, when I am typing it in. blind SMSing Feb 03 16:26:36 neither can i. you need to mark it to see if it is correct Feb 03 16:27:01 maybe a theming thing? Feb 03 16:27:36 bah, but who needs usability! greatly overrated! Feb 03 16:29:36 hmm, tango gps now does not load anymore Feb 03 16:31:29 hhf423: gconftool-2 --type string --set /apps/tangogps/repo_name "OSM" Feb 03 16:32:23 and gconftool-2 --set /apps/tangogps/repos --type list "[OSM|http://tile.openstreetmap.org/%d/%d/%d.png|/media/card/Maps/OSM|0]" --list-type=string Feb 03 16:32:50 gamin: gets d-bus error Feb 03 16:33:32 hhf423: then it should work again. put it in a file and execute it from the neo. gconf is dbus and does not work via ssh Feb 03 16:34:41 or set your DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS corretly Feb 03 16:34:58 (gconftool-2:1288): GConf-WARNING **: Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon: Feb 03 16:35:00 Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Feb 03 16:35:01 Error setting value: No D-BUS daemon running Feb 03 16:35:23 when executing from a file Feb 03 16:36:03 you can not do that via ssh Feb 03 16:36:20 you need to execute it from a neo terminal Feb 03 16:36:34 oh, ok Feb 03 16:39:06 right, that works Feb 03 16:43:17 but tango does not start either Feb 03 16:45:04 start it from a terminal - it is very talkative Feb 03 16:45:23 do you actually have /media/card? Feb 03 16:45:30 I'll just reinstall Feb 03 16:46:10 how do i set my local system to compile for the neo. i used 'source setup-env' and ./configure still didi i686 Feb 03 16:46:54 boy, the on screen keyboad is a pain Feb 03 16:47:25 hhf423: x2x? Feb 03 16:47:34 x2x? Feb 03 16:47:55 using your desktop keyboard and mouse on the neo Feb 03 16:48:52 man x2x - you may need to change the xconfig too. Feb 03 16:51:00 * * OM Bug 1217 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de Feb 03 16:51:01 * * Phone number not shown when writing a new SMS / text message Feb 03 16:51:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1217 Feb 03 16:54:01 * * OM Bug 1218 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de Feb 03 16:54:01 * * Receivers phone number not listed in sent/outgoing text (SMS) messages Feb 03 16:54:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1218 Feb 03 17:27:01 gamin: Do you need someone to test a program? Where can I get it? Feb 03 17:27:47 hi Ebbe! still tangogps at tangogps.org Feb 03 17:33:11 looks awesum gamin Feb 03 17:35:34 spydon: thanks. still some work to do, but quite usable, at least for me Feb 03 17:35:56 gamin: Looks fast on the video Feb 03 17:37:22 Ebbe: that was primary development goal Feb 03 17:42:14 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r67 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/src/ (8 files): first version of a dbus/glib driven user-space gsm 07.10 muxer daemon Feb 03 17:46:25 gamin: That is really incredibly! I can see the roads I put on the OSM myself on my Neo. Now I'll try and get a fix Feb 03 17:49:01 Ebbe: 8-) Feb 03 17:49:50 gamin: Hey... Any updates on the map software? Feb 03 17:50:28 Tronic: yep, comes now with a .desktop file Feb 03 17:51:06 Tronic: you can start it from the apps menu Feb 03 17:52:58 Tronic: and you can finally change the settings for the gpsd Feb 03 17:54:50 gamin: Works perfectly. I can see the little red dot when I get a fix :) Feb 03 17:55:23 Ebbe: and when you move, the tripmeter counts the distance Feb 03 17:56:01 gamin: I've apparently traveled .0.27km ;) Feb 03 17:56:11 *0.027 Feb 03 17:57:27 after one hour *sitting* on a bench, you will have ~200m ;) Feb 03 17:58:04 Hehe Feb 03 17:59:34 gamin: I think the autocenter should be a checkbox-like thing. So either you can move the map, or you will be fixed at your position Feb 03 18:00:49 Ebbe: currently it is only onetime center, but that is in the making Feb 03 18:01:23 mickeyl: Are you or is XorA|gone the person who might be maintaining the sane-srcrevs data for openmoko on oe? Feb 03 18:01:29 however checkboxes are not finger friendly. but I may make a statefulbutton instead Feb 03 18:01:38 mwester: probably me Feb 03 18:01:54 mwester: XorA|gone and johnlee Feb 03 18:02:15 mwester: if you need some bumps email me and I shall get to it tomorrow Feb 03 18:02:17 and occasionally rwhitby and me Feb 03 18:02:28 gamin: And the program really dont like when I press autocenter and I don't have a fix. Feb 03 18:02:31 mwester: Ive been busy last 2 weeks Feb 03 18:02:45 :) Just thought I'd mention that the switch to the 2.6.24 kernel won't build, the srcrev for the kernel is too old (3801 in the file, 4013 is the current svn version that builds (although I dont' know how well that kernel works yet). Feb 03 18:03:02 mwester: bollocks, I forgot that :-) Feb 03 18:03:06 mwester: Ill fix that now Feb 03 18:03:12 np. Feb 03 18:03:16 mwester: damn AUTOREV in my default config Feb 03 18:03:40 mwester: kernel works, some of userspace needs to get fixed for new /sys paths Feb 03 18:03:49 Does the AUTOREV work out-of-the-box now, or does it need extra magic stuff still? Feb 03 18:03:55 mwester: works out of box Feb 03 18:04:22 Excellent. I should use that, then, instead of editing sane-srcrevs all the time. I am, after all, quite insane. Feb 03 18:05:52 BTW, I can make that change too, if you're busy -- I just didn't want to do that without checking with someone first. Feb 03 18:06:44 Ebbe: beams you to 180° west, 88°nord Feb 03 18:06:57 mwester: already done it Feb 03 18:07:16 mwester: thanks for reminding me :-) Feb 03 18:07:54 gamin: Not when I do it. It removes some of the map, and makes a small red dot. Feb 03 18:08:31 Ebbe: move the map to the upper left and you'll see it Feb 03 18:08:54 Ebbe: zoom out to 2 before Feb 03 18:09:45 gamin: It was more a bug-report than a what-shall-I-do? :) Feb 03 18:12:29 Ebbe: any wishes for functionality? Feb 03 18:14:30 gamin: Don't have any right now, but I'll be testing this outside tomorrow, so I'll sure have some later on Feb 03 18:15:12 gamin: if i were to download all the maps i need onto my SD can tangogps handle that? Feb 03 18:15:47 KrisAbsinthe_: no problem at all Feb 03 18:16:15 I load them only on demand Feb 03 18:16:28 has anyone looked at the Cect phones?.. Feb 03 18:16:32 gamin: sweet, really this is the best GPS app for moko Feb 03 18:17:41 KrisAbsinthe_: thanks - that's good for my motivation Feb 03 18:18:03 lol Feb 03 18:18:19 gamin: I second that KrisAbsinthe_ Feb 03 18:18:55 gamin: one thing i can think of is auto loading into the apps menu Feb 03 18:19:21 what doyou mean? Feb 03 18:19:31 gamin: Why don't you move your developing to http://projects.openmoko.org/ ? Set up a bug-report system and mailinglist. Maybe even inviting people to help you program Feb 03 18:19:55 tango doesnt show up under applications, atleast on mine Feb 03 18:20:08 KrisAbsinthe_: I does here Feb 03 18:20:23 hmm. let me be 100% just a sec Feb 03 18:21:00 KrisAbsinthe_: have you reinstalled it from today? (I haven't bumped the app version) Feb 03 18:21:26 no, whats that URL Feb 03 18:22:15 KrisAbsinthe_: still on tangogps.org, same link, same name but new inside :P Feb 03 18:22:26 cool thx Feb 03 18:23:08 KrisAbsinthe_: "ipkg remove tangoGPS" before reinstalling Feb 03 18:23:55 Ebbe: As of now I don't need the infrastructure of projects.o.o, but that is likely to change Feb 03 18:24:50 Ebbe: do you have nmea-logfiles somewhere? Feb 03 18:25:00 gamin: Yes, why? Feb 03 18:25:23 Ebbe: then you can feed them into tangogps Feb 03 18:25:31 as replay Feb 03 18:25:56 gamin: How? Feb 03 18:27:27 Ebbe: install gpsd on your desktop, feed them into gpsfake and point your neo to your desktop (config->GPSD Host) Feb 03 18:28:17 Ebbe: gpsfake -b -c 0.1 -o "-n -N" -r "r" nmea_logfile_to_replay.log Feb 03 18:30:48 gamin: The program doesn't seem to save any configuration. Haven't you made that yet? Feb 03 18:31:38 Ebbe: only the repos. gpsd settings and "execute command" are not saved Feb 03 18:32:09 gamin: Well, they don't save either at me Feb 03 18:32:49 still didnt show up so im rebooting the neo after the install Feb 03 18:33:25 KrisAbsinthe_: in apps, showing up is triggered by the install Feb 03 18:34:51 KrisAbsinthe_: /usr/share/applications/tangogps.desktop and /usr/share/pixmaps/tangogps.png Feb 03 18:34:51 Woo Hoo it showed up Feb 03 18:35:37 KrisAbsinthe_: dunno which gllin script you use, but mine is restart capable Feb 03 18:36:19 and you can start the whole gllin/gpsd from the config tab - no longer fiddeling in the terminal! Feb 03 18:36:54 i love it Feb 03 18:40:02 gamin: thx for the help, works great Feb 03 18:41:05 hi Feb 03 18:41:06 gamin: does it auto remove the dled tiles or keep them? Feb 03 18:41:13 good to hear. So I'll write an email to the list and let more people know Feb 03 18:41:16 PBeck: hi Feb 03 18:41:28 KrisAbsinthe_: it keeps them Feb 03 18:41:36 gamin: bas ass lol Feb 03 18:42:03 I most likely will have to add a refresh option Feb 03 18:42:31 hi SpeedEvil :) Feb 03 18:43:12 KrisAbsinthe_: tangogps.org/dl.pl - have a look into it Feb 03 18:43:59 gamin: If tile was downloaded more than 5 days ago, try and download them again (but don't delete before download, because maybe no network) Feb 03 18:44:38 gamin: i got forbidden Feb 03 18:44:42 Note that this violates googles T&Cs (if you are using them, and this bothers you) Feb 03 18:45:51 KrisAbsinthe_: ah, old sysadmin habit to make all executables 700. should work now Feb 03 18:45:59 lol Feb 03 18:46:06 Ebbe: yes, that could be an idea! Feb 03 18:47:32 gamin: thats a nice little script Feb 03 18:48:05 gamin: Strange. It doesn't save repos when application is startes via ssh and displayed on my computer, but is saves when run on the Neo Feb 03 18:48:36 KrisAbsinthe_: comes from OSM, OJW is active there. does not work here, but should do what you want Feb 03 18:49:41 Ebbe: oh, you can start it via ssh? you have your DBUS env set ? maybe it saves to your desktops gconf? Feb 03 18:50:48 gamin: Ahh, you uses dbus :) That explains it Feb 03 18:50:55 Ebbe: where does your DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS point to? Feb 03 18:51:04 Ebbe: yes, gconf does Feb 03 18:52:07 Ebbe: but I'm still amazed, that it starts at all. Have you done anything on that? Feb 03 18:52:32 gamin: Nope, it just works Feb 03 18:53:05 Ebbe: oh nice. for most people it doesn't Feb 03 18:53:34 gamin: Maybe you need a new kernel and updated rootfs or something.. Feb 03 18:54:15 Ebbe: I guess that comes from your desktops side Feb 03 18:55:18 gamin: Sorry? I've only tried it from my Neo Feb 03 18:57:00 * * OM Bug 1219 has been created by obri(AT)chaostreff.ch Feb 03 18:57:01 * * Only US-ASCII characters displayed Feb 03 18:57:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1219 Feb 03 18:57:32 Ebbe: yes, but I think your desktop's ssh config may play into it Feb 03 18:58:11 gamin: Functionality request: You should make different modes. One "freestyler" where you can move the map around and gpsfix only shows one red dot. A "traveler" where display is fixed on position. A "tracker" where you save the nmea and shows a trail on the map Feb 03 19:01:11 Ebbe: yes, I have been thinking about something similar Feb 03 19:01:17 gamin: Cool Feb 03 19:14:51 re Feb 03 19:15:44 hey zem_, back from tracking? Feb 03 19:18:05 gaim: not getting a fix and telnet is refused, is that my gpsd Feb 03 19:18:15 gamin: yea, back, it tracked! Feb 03 19:18:31 KrisAbsinthe_: yes, then gpsd is not running Feb 03 19:19:02 Next thing is to create a GUI for my scripts, and of course edit maps Feb 03 19:20:01 zem_: I intend to implement some osm support into tangogps too, what are you planning to do? Feb 03 19:21:13 damn it, gpsd wasnt installed. wtf Feb 03 19:21:54 gamin: A small crappy app with all the buttons i need, like make a trace, activate gps, show that the gps is really working, upload trace via gprs Feb 03 19:22:08 zem_: in C? Feb 03 19:22:24 whats the port for gps, im getting No /dev/ttyS3 GPS device Feb 03 19:22:47 KrisAbsinthe_: thats normal and without importance Feb 03 19:23:02 cool Feb 03 19:23:06 That is the next thing, at the moment I am writing more Perl than C Feb 03 19:24:06 but a scripting language will need more space and is slower Feb 03 19:24:20 zem_: look at tangogps.org, the video. it uses osm maps Feb 03 19:25:14 it will not start. Starting gpsd: No /dev/ttyS3 GPS device, aborting gpsd startup. Check /etc/default/gpsd Feb 03 19:25:41 KrisAbsinthe_: oh, don't use the init.d scripts Feb 03 19:25:58 gpsd -p /dev/ttySAC1 ? Feb 03 19:26:25 KrisAbsinthe_: no, gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP Feb 03 19:26:37 im a fool today Feb 03 19:26:39 thanks Feb 03 19:26:47 KrisAbsinthe_: there is a script on my site Feb 03 19:27:35 cool, going back outside. right now my lat is NAN that is normal? Feb 03 19:27:53 yes not a number Feb 03 19:28:08 gamin: ;-) OK that thing already exists... Feb 03 19:36:22 et voila: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/testing_gsmd.html Feb 03 19:59:03 gamin: Is there anyway to use the Osmarender maps instead of Mapnik? Feb 03 19:59:34 Ebbe: just add them as a new repository Feb 03 19:59:42 gamin: Whats the url? Feb 03 20:01:06 http://b.tah.openstreetmap.org/Tiles/tile.php/7/65/45.png is a tile, Feb 03 20:01:29 Ebbe: thus http://b.tah.openstreetmap.org/Tiles/tile.php/%d/%d/%d.png Feb 03 20:02:13 gamin: Ahh, I see Feb 03 20:10:54 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r68 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/configure.ac: fixed list of lib dependencies Feb 03 20:35:12 re Feb 03 21:33:07 SpeedEvil: I've been thinking, and I don't think the DMA from the framebuffer is an issue Feb 03 21:33:28 SpeedEvil: because, at the speeds where it matters, it's also slower since it's derived from the same clock Feb 03 21:34:06 SpeedEvil: i.e. after a point (where the lcd controller divider gets to the minimum) it will be a fixed percentage of the available bus time Feb 03 22:01:03 yo prpplague you around Feb 03 22:01:13 message me I want you to see a device log Feb 03 22:54:50 gamin: If i zoom in past 6 levels tango crashes Feb 03 22:55:59 KrisAbsinthe_: hmm, worksforme. can you start it from the terminal an tell me what the last words are? Feb 03 22:56:12 sure just a sec Feb 03 22:56:16 or paste them to pastebin? Feb 03 22:58:25 well shit, didnt do it when i launched it from ssh Feb 03 22:59:22 btw, took a drive speed and position is accurate Feb 03 23:00:02 KrisAbsinthe_: I'd been rather surprised if it would not be accurate Feb 03 23:00:45 KrisAbsinthe_: you can launch it from ssh if you set DBUS_blabla Feb 03 23:01:09 must be the same as env in moko-terminal says Feb 03 23:01:09 i didnt set anything other than DISPLAY=:0 tangogps Feb 03 23:02:16 DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS is the var that you need to get from the neo and set in the ssh Feb 03 23:02:24 then it works Feb 03 23:10:01 KrisAbsinthe_: so whats going on? Feb 03 23:12:49 sorry had to tend to my son. How do i set that variable Feb 03 23:14:24 from a omko terminal: env>eee Feb 03 23:14:43 GN folks Feb 03 23:14:55 then in ssh grep DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS eee Feb 03 23:15:18 take that and export it Feb 03 23:16:30 alterative: start "tangogps 2>&1 > debug.log" in a mokoterminal Feb 03 23:17:00 openmoko Feb 03 23:19:15 did the terminal method, it still didnt crash this time. I was able to repeat the error again but not since i said something Feb 03 23:19:21 openmoko Feb 03 23:19:33 indeed openmoko Feb 03 23:19:40 why? Feb 03 23:19:59 dont be weird Feb 03 23:20:13 poor KrisAbsinthe Feb 03 23:21:08 do you admit you're poor? Feb 03 23:21:40 kann se nicht sprechen Feb 03 23:22:24 do you admit you're poor? Feb 03 23:22:32 kohlenfuzzi: stehen die berge bei dir in der schweiz nicht mehr? Feb 03 23:22:44 poor gamin Feb 03 23:23:19 ich wisses nich gamin sprechen deutch Feb 03 23:23:38 my spelling is poor in german Feb 03 23:24:00 poor Krisabsinthe Feb 03 23:24:03 oh ne! Feb 03 23:24:07 do you admit you're poor? Feb 03 23:24:30 kohlenmunk: das internet ist nur halb so anonym, wie du denkst Feb 03 23:24:37 kohlenmunk: do you have any real discussion for this channel? Feb 03 23:24:39 und dann? Feb 03 23:24:49 was willst du damit sagen Feb 03 23:24:54 willst du mich verklagen Feb 03 23:25:00 kohlenmunk: For Spam/Abuse, please contact abuse@cablecom.ch Feb 03 23:25:08 thanks Ganneff Feb 03 23:25:16 hehe Feb 03 23:25:19 yay Feb 03 23:25:31 must be fun *sigh* Feb 03 23:25:40 some boring sick sort of fun though Feb 03 23:25:56 hummm, the neo seems to boot when I try to change bootcmd variable, why? Feb 03 23:25:59 the waiting would not be good Feb 03 23:26:41 ah rtfm Feb 03 23:28:02 gaim: HA it did it. where should i send the log to Feb 03 23:30:16 KrisAbsinthe_: you can find my email on the website Feb 03 23:30:41 gaim: nice error message ; FUCCCCCCCCK Feb 03 23:31:24 openmoko: 03werner * r4014 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/ (config/defconfig-2.6.24 scripts/build): Feb 03 23:31:24 openmoko: The -moko11 in defconfig's CONFIG_LOCALVERSION somehow broke OpenEmbedded Feb 03 23:31:24 openmoko: builds. So we remove it. Feb 03 23:31:24 openmoko: config/defconfig-2.6.24: changed CONFIG_LOCALVERSION from "-moko11" to "" Feb 03 23:31:24 openmoko: scripts/build: changed SVN_REV from 4009 to 4014 Feb 03 23:35:01 KrisAbsinthe_ - oh, there is plenty of those :o) Feb 03 23:35:45 KrisAbsinthe_: no mail here - did you send it? Feb 03 23:35:46 i sent it off Feb 03 23:36:40 just now, had to cut it, apparently i cant send text that exceeds 10,000 chars Feb 03 23:37:07 have it - it is the slash Feb 03 23:37:37 my leading slash thats creating /blah//blah/ Feb 03 23:38:03 yes, the trailing one in the config. Feb 03 23:38:23 I remember having seen that before. Feb 03 23:38:40 habit I had added it into the Cache box Feb 03 23:38:42 there is a lib-call that doesn't handle it Feb 03 23:39:42 KrisAbsinthe_: g_mkdir_with_parents() fails on that Feb 03 23:40:11 cool, fixed my problem. thanks a ton Feb 03 23:40:28 imho unix system calls have no prob with that Feb 03 23:41:21 KrisAbsinthe_: your sd card will be cluttered with the dirs, I would put /media/card/maps there Feb 03 23:42:04 Still did it, it looks as if you try to disable zoom after you reach the lowest level. if i press it after that it crashes Feb 03 23:42:31 This media card IS for maps lol Feb 03 23:42:52 KrisAbsinthe_: oh yes, there are still some out of bounds checks missing Feb 03 23:43:30 cool no problem. Hey for a 'Beta' release this is uncommonly complete lol Feb 03 23:44:28 KrisAbsinthe_: hey, it is already 0.1!!! lol - in real unix tradition it sould be 0.0.2 or somesuch :-0 Feb 03 23:46:13 yup. I think you have done a great job. This should be the official OM GPS app Feb 03 23:48:26 tangoGPS? Feb 03 23:48:42 mickeyl: tangogps.org Feb 03 23:48:50 which UI toolkit is that based on? Feb 03 23:49:03 yup, im a minimalist, i love it very fast refresh, downloads maps as you need them Feb 03 23:49:05 gtk - no efl yet Feb 03 23:49:45 cool. need to try that one of these days Feb 03 23:50:23 mickeyl: there is a 1:30min video on the page Feb 03 23:50:31 god i wish i could increase battery life. Feb 03 23:51:54 KrisAbsinthe_: I guess I'll get that mintyboost thing Feb 03 23:53:25 hmm Feb 03 23:53:36 yeah, there was a 'Wish list' of stuff for the Neo I do wish they would make the shims for the back panel, then i would have enough room for solar and a control chip Feb 03 23:54:34 KrisAbsinthe_, shims? Feb 03 23:54:42 KrisAbsinthe_: I still like those fancy Military DMFCs Feb 03 23:55:04 KrisAbsinthe_: good for days! Feb 03 23:56:28 smlsfb: the idea is to be able to make the phone a little thicker and add room to the back area, giving room for mods Feb 03 23:56:47 ahh, that would be awesome Feb 03 23:57:03 KrisAbsinthe_: a portable docking station for ,please := Feb 03 23:58:09 i built a USB kb with a phone holder .....well before i realized you had to switch to host mode manually, kinda shot down native development on the go Feb 03 23:59:04 I even modded a Hub that fit inside the KB, i built it while waiting to get my neo Feb 04 00:00:39 oh cool Feb 04 00:02:02 still, i would like a clear neo case Feb 04 00:03:21 I think later on when OM is not so rushed to produce good phones all the little "cool" things will come along Feb 04 00:07:40 gamin: RoadNav has a feature to download by county and state, it grabs from OSM if i grabbed what i wanted with it, it should be compatible right? Feb 04 00:07:46 KrisAbsinthe_: dunno but i think for om we would be moving to slimming down and making it smaller Feb 04 00:07:50 not making it fatter Feb 04 00:07:58 there is actually plenty of room inside the case Feb 04 00:08:21 raster: really, i never took mine apart.....yet Feb 04 00:08:31 KrisAbsinthe_: no idea how roadnav puts it on the disk... Feb 04 00:08:58 your app just uses the actual image right? Feb 04 00:09:06 KrisAbsinthe_: however there is a good chance that they doit the same way Feb 04 00:09:17 yes Feb 04 00:09:38 sweet, Feb 04 00:09:40 dir structure is zoom/x/y Feb 04 00:18:52 this will be great for my road trip to NYC in july Feb 04 00:19:42 KrisAbsinthe_: until then it will most likely do a lot more... Feb 04 00:20:14 oh yeah, hope i have the GTA02 by then lol Feb 04 00:29:14 oooook Feb 04 00:31:17 ook? Feb 04 00:32:09 ooooooooooooookaaaay Feb 04 00:32:11 ook. Feb 04 00:32:28 ok .......just wanted to be part of the family :( Feb 04 00:32:39 * mwester-laptop offers the channel some bananas. Feb 04 00:32:57 ooooooook mwester Feb 04 00:34:50 * Stephmw slips on the banana skins Feb 04 00:35:10 * Stephmw shoos mwester-laptop back into the Discworld novel he crawled out of Feb 04 00:35:27 I hate college english.... Feb 04 00:35:58 I also hate mokomakefile , taking forever Feb 04 00:36:08 * raster wonders why - by the time you get to university, you need to be studying english. Feb 04 00:36:16 i love mokomakefile Feb 04 00:36:37 ive been compiling all day Feb 04 00:36:54 * smlsfb loves college english ... m/f ratios are very good :) Feb 04 00:37:01 you do that once and then it works forever Feb 04 00:37:20 KrisAbsinthe_: actually your computer has been compiling all day. you're just a spectator :) Feb 04 00:37:38 KrisAbsinthe_: if *YOU* had been compiling all day.... i'd be awarding you medals for persistence :) Feb 04 00:37:47 http://xkcd.com/303/ Feb 04 00:37:47 smlsfb: good point Feb 04 00:37:48 * Stephmw excavates KrisAbsinthe_'s brain for the mythical biological compiler Feb 04 00:38:14 * smlsfb is looking forward to class wednesday :) Feb 04 00:38:15 * mwester-laptop wonders why it is that at university-level in the US, most students for whom English is a second language speak and write better than the native speakers. Feb 04 00:38:17 smlsfb: yeah, incremental compilation is slowly killing that off Feb 04 00:38:17 raster: lol Feb 04 00:38:28 mwester-laptop: ditto in the UK Feb 04 00:38:38 smlsfb: BWAHAHAHHAHAHA ROTFL Feb 04 00:41:44 mwester-laptop: probably because they were forced to learn the obscure rules native speakers "know" by being exposed to daily Feb 04 00:41:47 i want to encode that image for the moko startup Feb 04 00:41:54 mwester-laptop: and thus learn them correctly ;-) Feb 04 00:44:04 I had a hard time learning parallelism because of my "over exposure" to english, "i probably speak better german, but cant spell it lol Feb 04 00:46:46 german is so easy to spell Feb 04 00:46:51 u learn the rules once Feb 04 00:46:54 then it "just works" Feb 04 00:47:26 i revert badly to V's and C's Feb 04 00:47:39 I like the rule about making new words by just gluing loads of other words together. :D Feb 04 00:48:28 some of those words made me ill until I realized that it was just a big sentence lol Feb 04 00:51:20 raster, do you telecommute, or do you get to have swordfights with the other OM devs while the code compiles? :) Feb 04 00:51:39 smlsfb: i fill it in with writing code Feb 04 00:51:42 :) Feb 04 00:52:06 only when i really need a break i hed to the kitchen for food & drink Feb 04 00:52:12 whihc is all of a 3m walk away Feb 04 00:52:35 or i just joust on irc Feb 04 00:52:38 with wordsd Feb 04 00:52:39 :) Feb 04 00:52:40 words Feb 04 00:52:41 :) Feb 04 00:52:55 my brother used to be able to get his boss to join in quake2 games :) Feb 04 00:53:07 sounds like a pretty good deal tho Feb 04 00:53:08 That would be great Feb 04 00:53:34 thats why no one ever hires me as a boss Feb 04 00:53:53 * cesarb suddenly wonders: if the natural state of a LCD pixel is "white", why does the screen blanking code set it to _black_? Feb 04 00:54:39 cesarb: crt legacy Feb 04 00:54:40 :) Feb 04 00:55:45 raster: which crt legacy, this driver is since the beginning a LCD-only driver! Feb 04 00:56:00 i know Feb 04 00:56:16 what we need to do is not blank, but just dpms off the screen (and trhus backlight) Feb 04 00:56:25 blanking itself is useless Feb 04 00:56:38 * cesarb wonders, for the Nth time, whether any consideration was made to power issues in this code Feb 04 00:57:13 raster: well, the blanking code _is_ supposed to do the "dpms off" part, it just doesn't Feb 04 00:57:20 all i need is like 40% more life to get me through the day lol Feb 04 00:57:25 hmmm Feb 04 00:57:34 gta01 or 02? Feb 04 00:57:52 raster: instead, it sets the "fixed palette" register (which allows one to output a fixed color instead of the normal output), and sets it to zero (black) Feb 04 00:57:58 raster: gta01 Feb 04 00:58:19 raster: gta02 probably won't use this code, AFAIK it will go via a different path to the glamo Feb 04 01:00:03 i swear bothy my gta01 and 02 have their backlight off when blanked Feb 04 01:00:29 yup Feb 04 01:00:32 backlight is off Feb 04 01:00:42 raster: gta01 at least does... which makes the code _even more pointless_ Feb 04 01:00:57 oh i see what u mean Feb 04 01:01:02 never mind Feb 04 01:01:17 yeah, it keeps updating the screen even when the backlight is off, it can be seen under qemu Feb 04 01:01:22 yup Feb 04 01:01:38 tho technically we should unpower the whole lcm Feb 04 01:01:41 raster: in fact, the correct thing from a power usage POV would be to actually turn off both the LCM and the LCD block in the SoC. I don't know about the LCM, but the LCD block sure isn't disabled Feb 04 01:01:43 should even have video refresh Feb 04 01:01:53 yup Feb 04 01:02:07 probably not very difficult to patch Feb 04 01:02:22 uh, I think some people would rather it take a second for the SoC to come on Feb 04 01:02:23 raster: and with the cpufreq code I'm writing, turning off the LCD block in the SoC via its driver is needed so the governor can go to lower frequencies Feb 04 01:03:15 yeah Feb 04 01:03:15 KrisAbsinthe_: if it's too slow to come on (probably isn't, it's pretty fast when you power on), you can delay turning it off for some minutes, so it will happen when the user isn't looking Feb 04 01:03:19 understood Feb 04 01:03:26 the gta02 is a different kettle of fish Feb 04 01:03:44 but we'd want to definitely shut down the whole lcd and "dac" scan on blank Feb 04 01:03:49 cesarb: true Feb 04 01:05:32 in the eyes of power consumption, does the SD chip turn off when not being used? Feb 04 01:06:21 and by used i mean actively being accessed Feb 04 01:06:26 KrisAbsinthe_: didn't look at that driver yet, and in fact have been testing without the card Feb 04 01:07:26 man if we can just suspend and resume reliably i'll be most happy Feb 04 01:07:30 * cesarb wonder how many power consumption tweaks can be done yet... this is going to perhaps double the time between charges if we implement everything Feb 04 01:08:05 raster: well, it took how many years until desktop linux suspend/resume started being somewhat more reliable? it's mostly the same code... Feb 04 01:08:08 cesarb: that would be great Feb 04 01:08:29 At least it's only two platforms. Feb 04 01:08:41 Easy to regression test ;-) Feb 04 01:08:47 Aria: for now lol Feb 04 01:09:04 hmm so, was the 1st february deadline real or speculation? Feb 04 01:09:38 nope, 2nd February of next month lol Feb 04 01:10:01 cesarb: slight difference is we have control of the hardware - and it is very limited :) Feb 04 01:10:18 what? didn't get it =P Feb 04 01:11:21 I personally expect the GTA02 in april, if it comes before that great, if after then thats ok too Feb 04 01:11:37 <------ has no ties to OM Feb 04 01:12:52 1st february, according to the wiki, was just for hardware revision, not release. And it seems to not make sense, since 28 january some a5 was shipped. Feb 04 01:13:00 *were Feb 04 01:14:54 where did you see that? Feb 04 01:16:55 here is a good question, is the debug board the same? Feb 04 01:21:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#A_couple_of_things_I_have_noticed_via_the_various_mailing_lists_-_no_inside_info_at_all_-_JW Feb 04 01:21:43 cool thx Feb 04 01:23:53 thats interesting. I would like to know if the hardware is OK or if they need another revision Feb 04 01:25:24 KrisAbsinthe_: I don't know if it helps, but I found this -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Prototypes <- yesterday Feb 04 01:28:06 cesarb: no that help a little :) Feb 04 01:33:33 it helps a lot, knowing that there are bluetooth issues means that it won't be released tomorrow =P Feb 04 01:34:40 cesarb: it may be good to add a note about the cpufreq tree and the progress on it in this community updates page to get some public attention Feb 04 01:37:10 cesarb: is the shipping to Brazil easy to deal? Feb 04 01:37:29 balrog-kun: perhaps, but is the community updates page a page for updates _to_ the community or _from_ the community? Feb 04 01:37:53 or you receive it through special channels(ie. not from direct.openmoko.com)? Feb 04 01:38:40 vininim: it's normal shipping, it only stops at a point where you have to pay the taxes (60% import tax and then about 18% sales tax over the result), and then follows normally Feb 04 01:38:45 cesarb: not sure, but it seems there are comments from community on there too :) Feb 04 01:39:13 balrog-kun: ah, but notice they were done as a replacement for the comments to the community which were missing last week :) Feb 04 01:39:30 ah yeah Feb 04 01:40:15 1513.000 Feb 04 01:40:52 (without shipping) Feb 04 01:41:16 is the tax 60% of the value of the phone? Feb 04 01:41:33 balrog-kun: no, 60% of what I already paid (i.e. including shipping) Feb 04 01:42:07 ouch Feb 04 01:43:21 balrog-kun: in the end, it cost twice the original price, as expected (that always happen with electronic things here; they always seem to have twice or three times the price outside the country) Feb 04 01:43:43 i'll definatley get a debug board =P Feb 04 01:44:42 balrog-kun: which is why I probably will wait a bit more before getting a gta02 ;-) (I already have a gta01 to play with in the meantime, once I manage to make its battery last a _bit_ more...) Feb 04 01:45:56 cesarb: you should arrange to get a free "preview", it says "no market value" in the papers that are sent with them Feb 04 01:46:28 balrog-kun: that would probably only get the thing entangled in the bureaucracy Feb 04 01:47:44 :( Feb 04 01:48:09 balrog-kun: after all, would they believe a phone costing nothing? ;-) Feb 04 01:48:47 if it come with a debug board, or if it comes three in a pack, then may be :) Feb 04 01:49:07 http://www.dirad.fiocruz.br/?q=node/139 Feb 04 01:49:09 balrog-kun: the most reliable way of evading these taxes is to get a friend outside the country to get it to you, and bring with him to the country (there's a limit up to which you can bring stuff in without taxes with you) Feb 04 01:49:21 * balrog-kun had to agree to pay the import tax to customs before knowing how much it would be but it was quite reasonable Feb 04 01:49:37 it seems om/fic could manage with some paper filling Feb 04 01:49:46 you're a developer after all Feb 04 01:50:07 the bad part is with the paper i signed DHL can now pay for anything and then demand a refund from me and if i don't agree, they will take it from my account themselves Feb 04 01:50:20 balrog-kun: I knew how much it would be before buying. There's a very explicative page on the subject on the government's website. Feb 04 01:50:45 balrog-kun: it might be excessive, but it's quite predictable Feb 04 01:51:04 i see Feb 04 01:57:40 * cesarb gets annoyed at his latest code not working, and then notices he forgot to copy the image to where qemu picks it up Feb 04 02:00:27 Predictably, when I copy the kernel to the correct place, my code ends up working after all Feb 04 02:03:57 the copying is the main part, you could have no code at all and the copying would make up for that ;) Feb 04 02:08:16 * cesarb has to, as part of the current test, wait for the screen to blank in qemu... how long does that take? 15 minutes? Feb 04 02:14:22 cesarb, that sounds like compiling :) http://xkcd.com/303/ Feb 04 02:18:22 five minutes, afaik, there should be some ioctl to change that Feb 04 02:20:01 ah no, it's 10 Feb 04 02:20:08 the value is hardcoded in drivers/char/vt.c Feb 04 02:25:41 Oh great, the code just did the exact opposite it should have done Feb 04 02:25:54 I divided when I should have multiplied Feb 04 02:30:38 * cesarb remembers to copy the image this time Feb 04 02:58:21 cesarb, working as expected? Feb 04 02:59:29 smlsfb: on qemu, yes Feb 04 02:59:56 :) excellent **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 04 02:59:57 2008