**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 03:00:07 2008 Feb 12 03:03:01 * * OM Bug 1226 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net Feb 12 03:03:02 * * Support USSD messages, e.g. for "remaining airtime" checks Feb 12 03:03:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1226 Feb 12 04:33:27 http://flickr.com/search/?q=scale+6x&m=text Feb 12 08:03:45 Does anyone have a date on when the phone is going to be available for sale again? Feb 12 08:15:52 So, the freerunner, is this what we've been waiting for, with upgraded hardware?:) Feb 12 08:44:55 good morning Feb 12 08:55:22 word, there is a ton and a half of people in here Feb 12 08:58:22 I'm looking at moving from a sidekick (3) to an openmoko within maybe a year. looking for folks that might have a tmo plan and one of these newfangled freerunner things and could tell me how things are going for them. Feb 12 08:59:00 anyway, it's like 4am eastern so I'll idle around and wait for a message or a nick highlight Feb 12 09:03:13 morning Feb 12 10:21:22 anrp: it not recognizing the charger if plugged in might be the lack of "coldplug", saw a patch to openmoko-kernel yesterday which adds precisely that Feb 12 10:23:10 wurp2|away: well, I just dial (for instance) *544# and it sends back the remaining credits (I can either dial directly (ATD) or use some GSM command I already tested but forgot right now, it could be the one and mmontour were talking about) Feb 12 11:24:28 good morning Feb 12 11:34:06 ljp: ping Feb 12 13:57:11 Is there a way to execute a script when I open the terminal on the Neo, just like .bashrc? Feb 12 14:00:43 ipkg install bash ? Feb 12 14:00:50 More seriously Feb 12 14:00:52 .profile ? Feb 12 14:00:55 .ashrc? Feb 12 14:01:56 They don't work.. Feb 12 14:17:07 <_diego_> probably becouse when you open the terminal in openmoko $HOME is not set Feb 12 14:18:26 <_diego_> I've noticed that when you use the terminal, the current directory is not your $HOME, but the root ("/") Feb 12 14:23:20 Yep - it seems that the terminal does not run the new process through the normal mechanism to establish a new shell, as does xterm and the like. Feb 12 14:44:39 when I did an ipkg upgrade my phone said its disk was full Feb 12 14:44:45 df -h showed just /var/volatile full Feb 12 14:44:55 anyway, I know there's a way to install to the sd card with ipkg, right? Feb 12 14:46:43 <_diego_> i suggest to install the image on sd, and then boot from sd Feb 12 14:47:45 _diego_, anything in the wiki about how to do that? Feb 12 14:48:56 <_diego_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Feb 12 14:49:42 search the wiki for ipkg-link Feb 12 14:54:20 /var/volatile contains the content usually in /tmp and /var/tmp -- did you check to see if that's where the problem is? Feb 12 14:54:40 I had a couple of times where the X log exploded in size Feb 12 14:54:41 (for example, gsmd logs to /tmp/gsmd.log and can fill up your ramdisk) Feb 12 14:54:54 SpeedEvil: Me too Feb 12 14:55:13 jadams_: I just had to remove the X log once, and then everything was fine Feb 12 14:57:59 oh come on, I don't want to build the freaking image just to avoid disk usage issues Feb 12 14:58:16 I just want to update and then I'm DONE... Feb 12 14:58:21 short term, just to get this demo out the door Feb 12 14:59:49 jadams_: Locate X.log in a subfolder to /var/volatile and delete it Feb 12 15:03:06 Ebbe, thanks, doing so Feb 12 15:29:22 Is there any chance that the FreeRunner would be available in March ? Feb 12 15:35:43 * SpeedEvil consults the openmoko timeline planner. Feb 12 15:35:52 'Magic-8-ball says ask again later'. Feb 12 15:39:56 ;D Feb 12 15:40:55 I think towards mid-april is a reasonable date...I haven't checked but is the new web shop ready yet? Feb 12 15:41:14 unless there needs to be more hardware changes ofcourse. Feb 12 15:46:59 * ScaredyCat is going to have to think of another birthday present to buy self now :/ Feb 12 16:13:35 cesarb: Yeah, mmontour submitted a nice bug report for USSD that shows the two ways those balance reports come back Feb 12 16:13:44 mmontour: Thanks :-) Feb 12 16:17:00 hi Feb 12 17:44:27 does getting bullied makes me vulnarable to other people who i don't like and weren't bullying me to think that i can be bullied now and they start disliking me and bully me too? Feb 12 17:45:28 * ewon blinks Feb 12 17:46:49 wurp2|away, Did you see Erin Yueh's message on device-owners regarding replacing the multi-tap input with the mb-keyboard and applet? Feb 12 17:47:48 how do i stand up to a bully? what does stand up mean? if you stand up can't you get hurt? Feb 12 17:59:20 http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song-rhythmic.ogg Feb 12 18:01:15 Haha. Fun song :) Feb 12 18:10:38 does anyone know how I can add an entry in openmoko-feedreader2? Or where it stores configuration info? Feb 12 18:10:44 I can't find info in gconf for feedreader Feb 12 18:16:02 jadams_: I'm not sure they've made that feature yet, but I could be wrong Feb 12 18:16:05 ha Feb 12 18:16:13 here's a hint for me: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/src/feed-configuration.c?rev=2623&view=markup Feb 12 18:18:56 what's the input manager called? There used to be an app I could run that would restart it, and now there's not... Feb 12 18:20:30 Ebbe, anyway, point was I'd have to recompile it, it's not configurable at present Feb 12 18:20:46 jadams_: Sadly, yes Feb 12 18:21:14 Ebbe, I've never done any gtk programming, but seems easy enough to use gconf for that... Feb 12 18:21:42 we need to get a build environment set up, and I'd push out patches like that...or get an employee to Feb 12 18:21:50 even if it's just 'go modify the gconf manually' Feb 12 18:22:18 What do you mean exactly? Feb 12 18:22:37 currently the feeds in feedreader are hardcoded in the source code Feb 12 18:22:42 so to change them, you modify code and recompile Feb 12 18:23:32 You could make a path and send it to bugzilla, if that's what you mean Feb 12 18:24:09 Ebbe, yeah, I just mean I want to get a build env set up here at my company so I can actually TEST my patches like that Feb 12 18:24:14 right now I just run a build and that's it Feb 12 18:25:44 jadams_: The MokoMakefile isn't good enough? Feb 12 18:26:11 With qemu Feb 12 18:26:41 Ebbe, I haven't run it in months Feb 12 18:26:48 but yeah Feb 12 18:26:50 that's all I mean Feb 12 18:27:01 is that we need to get a setup here at the office dedicated (or capable) of fiddling with moko Feb 12 18:27:43 It should be enough Feb 12 18:29:21 Ebbe, k, cool Feb 12 18:29:38 we just got our IBM server in (>$14k new for this right now, we got it for $1200 used with a current IBM warranty) Feb 12 18:30:02 so I'll be playing a little bit, might install the toolchain on that sucker since it's the fastest machine we have at present Feb 12 18:30:09 Auch. Sounds cool Feb 12 18:30:31 we'll be virtualizing a bunch of web servers for ourselves on it Feb 12 18:31:02 Power 6? Feb 12 18:31:07 ? Feb 12 18:31:15 oh Feb 12 18:31:16 x series Feb 12 18:32:34 Crap, I forgot my USB cable. :S Feb 12 18:32:42 No flashing for me today. :S Feb 12 19:08:29 anyone know the pppd command to disconnect? Feb 12 19:09:05 kdean06, don't you have a digital camera or something? Feb 12 19:09:18 Yes, why? Feb 12 19:09:28 Some cables is the same Feb 12 19:09:34 I'm at work. :) Feb 12 19:09:38 Ah ^^ Feb 12 19:10:22 And for the record, my camera isn't the same size. :( It's like my PC has tenticles. Not a single USB device in my home uses the same size cords, except my phones. Feb 12 19:11:17 Yeah I hate that they can't have one standard... Feb 12 19:13:48 what - microUSB, USB3, A and B, mini-A, mini-AB Feb 12 19:14:10 usb DOOM EDITION Feb 12 19:14:25 acutally Feb 12 19:14:33 there are probably several usb3 variabts Feb 12 19:33:09 yay, full battery Feb 12 19:50:35 was neat following the bus home on tangogps's osm map :] Feb 12 19:51:00 cool Feb 12 20:01:53 moin Feb 12 20:02:00 boy, this is bad Feb 12 20:02:16 I just got myself an iphone and its better at surfing than my N770 Feb 12 20:02:58 anyways Feb 12 20:03:41 looking at what one can see from android, looks like the Neo/OpenMoko has 6 to 12 months advantage, or what would you say? Feb 12 20:03:49 you have an n770 and an iphone and are intereseted in openmoko? Feb 12 20:04:04 and android? Feb 12 20:04:18 einalex: I have a Neo since months Feb 12 20:04:31 man..does "prioritize" mean anything to you? Feb 12 20:04:35 any tmo customers in here with a neo? Feb 12 20:04:48 tmo? Feb 12 20:04:54 t-mobile Feb 12 20:04:59 einalex: prioritize? why should I? Feb 12 20:05:27 P2E: I have tried the Neo with a german t-mobile sim and it worked Feb 12 20:06:10 i guess because all parties get more out of the deal when you do it. + it leaves mopre money for different things Feb 12 20:06:51 well Feb 12 20:06:53 just a thought# Feb 12 20:06:58 your choice Feb 12 20:07:05 hhf423: Yeah, the iphone is sweet.. :/ Feb 12 20:07:28 But it's also evil and closed.. ;) Feb 12 20:07:51 einalex: the N770 served me well for some 6 months or so Feb 12 20:08:22 CM: yes, amazing that something can be so cool and evil at the same time :-) Feb 12 20:08:38 hehe Feb 12 20:08:47 CM: reminds me of sony in their good days Feb 12 20:08:49 i hope the freerunner does that for 3-5 years for me Feb 12 20:09:28 well, I still need a jabber client for the iphone, then the N770 can go to ebay I think Feb 12 20:10:15 hm Feb 12 20:10:24 einalex: yes, the freerunner has some serious potential. its a pity that the iphone does not have GPS (and is closed and all that) Feb 12 20:10:42 einalex: but first, OpenMoko needs to fix the power management :-) Feb 12 20:11:11 the mailinglist gives hope Feb 12 20:11:20 hhf423: jwchat.org! Feb 12 20:11:28 einalex: does it? on freerunner or on powermanagement? Feb 12 20:11:44 both Feb 12 20:11:57 good Feb 12 20:11:58 and on powermanagement on the 1973 Feb 12 20:12:21 zash: nah, I want an application, not a web thing. I need notification if there is a new message Feb 12 20:12:32 like there were/are software issues and hardware issues Feb 12 20:13:36 I mean if I get 3h out of my Neo today, I count myself lucky. Thats not good enough for use. And I am sooo interested in a location sensitive todo list! Feb 12 20:14:57 3 hours of use? Feb 12 20:15:02 or 3 hours of standby? Feb 12 20:15:23 like in active but in your pocket.. Feb 12 20:15:57 standby plus a litte use Feb 12 20:16:49 but, remember, there is basically no powermanagement other than screen out Feb 12 20:18:39 CM: what kills me is that the iphone is probably the first thing that I have that I had to "break" to use it. And that even people "break" that have an AT&T contract because they want the applications Feb 12 20:19:19 i won't buy an iphone Feb 12 20:19:33 i don't think apple should be rewarded for this Feb 12 20:19:35 this Feb 12 20:19:39 einalex: its not that I switch phones every 6 months or so. I used my p800 for like 5 years Feb 12 20:19:39 i dunno.. Feb 12 20:19:57 it makes me sad Feb 12 20:20:18 they treat their customers as if they were dumb sheep Feb 12 20:20:19 hhf423: Yeah, lockdowns always suck :( Feb 12 20:20:40 i don't want to be treated that way. no money from me Feb 12 20:20:57 einalex: well, you have a point. But it is actually a very cool device. Even though you have to break it to use it. Feb 12 20:21:05 yes Feb 12 20:21:10 i know it's a cool device Feb 12 20:21:14 bt if you buy it Feb 12 20:21:21 the next cool device will be just as closed Feb 12 20:22:06 if you take the open approach it will become cool automatically Feb 12 20:22:08 :) Feb 12 20:28:00 yeah, but I have decided that I can not wait that long Feb 12 20:28:40 and I don't know if its that easy. Apple knows that ca 1/3 of the phones are sold without AT&T (or equivalent) contract Feb 12 20:28:53 now there will be an SDK Feb 12 20:29:52 but I assume that eventually, OpenMoko (or the OSS community) will beat them. And even if not, it will push them further. Feb 12 20:43:56 does anyone have a sidekick and NOT have a neo? Feb 12 20:48:06 isn't there a sidekick irc channel? ;) Feb 12 20:51:42 it's the trendy way to /kick from a channel Feb 12 21:01:46 einalex: yes, *except* I'm looking to move from a sidekick to a neo, wondering if anyone else has done any research into that Feb 12 21:02:27 like move your data? Feb 12 21:03:13 i think a sidekick style device wud be a kewl addition in terms of hardware to the openmoko range but eh that's just me Feb 12 21:03:17 no, like I have a sidekick plan with t-mobile, it includes unlimited gprs and sms, I'm wondering if I could get data on the neo via gprs on my sidekick plan without having to mess with it much, or if t-mo blocks non-sidekick gprs with the sk plan, or... Feb 12 21:03:50 uhm Feb 12 21:04:05 you mean they actually know what device you are using? Feb 12 21:04:15 that doesn't sound very standards compliant Feb 12 21:04:30 P2E: You should be able to just put your sidekick SIM in your neo and go... Feb 12 21:04:32 well, considering I have a "sidekick" plan =] Feb 12 21:04:47 einalex: they're telcos. standards never got in the way of locking you in :) Feb 12 21:04:49 :) Feb 12 21:04:54 wurp2|away: for both voice (which I would expect) *and* data (which I'm unsure about)? Feb 12 21:05:06 why should they care what device you use as liong as you pay them? Feb 12 21:05:21 i only know locking the other way round.. Feb 12 21:05:31 Unless your SIM is a newer one, in which case you'll need to mail your neo to Michael Shiloh for a firmware update Feb 12 21:05:36 I don't care about the philosophical angles of this, I just want to know if it will work =] Feb 12 21:05:39 P2E: Yeah, even your gprs Feb 12 21:05:53 If you can get the right connect script Feb 12 21:06:08 But remember neo is still for devs, and still basically pre-alpha Feb 12 21:06:12 ok. so, I need to find a connect script for t-mobile/sidekick Feb 12 21:06:14 p2e you need someone with a neo to plug your card in. Feb 12 21:06:25 I haven't gotten gprs to work on mine, and there's nothing special about it. Feb 12 21:06:34 einalex: or mail the SIM to someone Feb 12 21:06:42 I just haven't tinkered with timeouts, etc enough yet Feb 12 21:06:53 SpeedEvil: that#s a lot of trust Feb 12 21:07:28 + you have no phone in the meantime Feb 12 21:07:58 You'll probably have no phone a fair amount of the time if you're switching to a neo soon ;-) Feb 12 21:08:05 ok. so, either find someone with a neo or literally just get one and start tinkering are my best options Feb 12 21:08:26 or mail me your SIM Feb 12 21:08:40 You can't trust these other guys, but you can trust me Feb 12 21:08:52 it's not really a "soon" switch as much as a "microsoft just bought danger and when it comes time to upgrade my sidekick I'm not going to be using an M$ phone" switch Feb 12 21:09:41 that sounds perfectly good to me Feb 12 21:10:35 P2E: If I were you, I would wait & see if I could get a FreeRunner instead, then Feb 12 21:10:42 well yeah Feb 12 21:10:56 the freerunner will probably be out by then Feb 12 21:13:46 anyway, thanks Feb 12 21:13:54 I just needed to bounce off ideas and stuff Feb 12 21:14:21 now to find someone with a neo in virginia Feb 12 21:20:22 I have used gprs with my neo, it worked most of the time Feb 12 21:20:43 good to know =] Feb 12 21:20:49 basically, once the connection was up, it ran Feb 12 21:21:31 I even did a ipkg update && upgrade once. took forever (gprs not so fast) but it worked Feb 12 21:23:15 anyone happen to remember what python api I should use for bringing a window to the front? Feb 12 21:24:10 that should depend on the gui tk you use shoudln't it? Feb 12 21:25:21 it's more another X window I'd like to raise, rather than my own Feb 12 21:25:28 oh Feb 12 21:25:43 then I guess you have to talk with X Feb 12 21:26:02 or the other program Feb 12 21:26:55 yeah, I was hoping for a toFront("window title")... ah well, time to learn something Feb 12 21:27:52 * anrp thinks the simple solution is messagebox("Please click on the " .. name .. " window to bring it to the front.") Feb 12 21:28:09 anrp yeah that is simply Feb 12 21:28:18 and completely unergonomic Feb 12 21:28:25 true Feb 12 21:28:28 but it can work Feb 12 21:29:14 ;) Feb 12 21:30:21 it's like a waitress tells you to go to the kitchen and fetch the food yourself Feb 12 21:35:52 bmk? freebase? ;p Feb 12 22:01:38 einalex: pissing about with X calls ;) Feb 12 22:01:51 hm Feb 12 22:01:59 good luck Feb 12 22:02:10 don't think I'm getting errors, but the calls likewise don't succeed - and yes, I've got the right window handle Feb 12 22:02:59 XRaiseWindow(Dsp, Children[lp]); Feb 12 22:02:59 XSetInputFocus(Dsp, Children[lp], RevertToNone, CurrentTime); Feb 12 22:03:08 doesn't seem to do much of anything Feb 12 22:07:28 hm Feb 12 22:07:39 does it work on your own windows? Feb 12 22:09:37 einalex: you're gonna love this one - I don't have any Feb 12 22:09:51 einalex: this is purely from cli Feb 12 22:10:10 einalex: I need to raise/lower certain windows based on hw events Feb 12 22:10:26 well Feb 12 22:11:06 i guess the problem is one of these: Feb 12 22:11:24 a) it doesn't let you manipulate other windows Feb 12 22:11:39 b) you need another function Feb 12 22:12:29 c) any other i didn't yet think of Feb 12 22:12:39 haha Feb 12 22:12:48 yeah, or d) it's the phase of the moon Feb 12 22:13:31 this is perverse. Feb 12 22:13:50 if I ask the server what the current stacking order is, the window I selected is indeed at the top Feb 12 22:13:56 ... but that's patently untrue Feb 12 22:14:07 wonder if the wm is taking the piss Feb 12 22:14:20 hm Feb 12 22:14:40 perhaps you should talkt to the wm about what to put on top Feb 12 22:14:47 it might need some kind of commit Feb 12 22:15:01 or ignore other sources alltougether... Feb 12 22:24:55 my gps gets no fix Feb 12 22:24:58 I'd love it to get a fix Feb 12 22:25:04 it's agps...do I have to have a sim to use gps? Feb 12 22:25:58 NO Feb 12 22:26:00 jadams_: are you outside? mine only gets a fix outside Feb 12 22:26:01 no Feb 12 22:26:15 * SpeedEvil removes jadams_ roof. Feb 12 22:30:47 jadams_: You might also try deleting the NVRAM*.dat files before starting gllin (to force it to do a "cold" acquisition) Feb 12 22:31:03 mmontour, where are those located? Feb 12 22:31:18 In the gllin directory Feb 12 22:32:26 (which is /home/root/gllin/ unless somebody's updated that package since it was first released) Feb 12 22:32:31 so it actually stores old orbital data across runs? :] Feb 12 22:33:41 Probably, although I haven't spent any time inspecting the contents of those files (I've only looked at the communication between gllin and the Hammerhead chip) Feb 12 22:58:04 openmoko: 03werner * r4052 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/fiq-hdq.patch: Feb 12 22:58:04 openmoko: [PATCH Try#2] introduce-fiq-hdq.patch Feb 12 22:58:04 openmoko: From: Andy Green Feb 12 22:58:04 openmoko: fiq-hdq.patch: Feb 12 22:58:04 openmoko: - drivers/power/gta02_hdq.c: cleanup after review Feb 12 22:58:05 openmoko: - include/linux/gta02_hdq.h: added previously missing file Feb 12 23:01:02 anyone want to buy a GTA01 for $250 Feb 12 23:01:21 incl shipping? Feb 12 23:01:27 and taxes Feb 12 23:01:56 inside USA yes Feb 12 23:02:29 i see Feb 12 23:03:02 openmoko: 03werner * r4053 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/fiq-hdq.patch: Feb 12 23:03:02 openmoko: fiq-hdq.patch: Feb 12 23:03:02 openmoko: - drivers/power/gta02_hdq.c: changed platform name from "Neo Freerunner" to Feb 12 23:03:02 openmoko: "GTA02" Feb 12 23:03:29 ill ship worldwide but buyer pays shipping. i can setup an ebay transaction Feb 12 23:04:02 i gues i'll be waiting for the freerunner Feb 12 23:04:18 lol. no problem Feb 12 23:06:15 if you set up that ebay auction be sure to mention it on the mailing list..that should give you some attention Feb 12 23:06:38 will do, thanks Feb 12 23:07:40 einalex: worked around the issue by using a wm that obeys XRaiseWindow - thanks for your suggestions :) Feb 12 23:07:51 advise is still for free Feb 12 23:08:54 if you have this luxury.. Feb 12 23:09:46 have any good resources for porting linux? Feb 12 23:10:29 not actually Feb 12 23:10:48 i guess the guys at openembedded or what it's called know something about that Feb 12 23:11:16 trying to find the cross tools for OMAP Feb 12 23:12:10 what cross tools? Feb 12 23:12:23 compile stuff hm? Feb 12 23:12:26 OMAP is an ARM Feb 12 23:13:19 i know but will it work with the moko cross tools Feb 12 23:13:46 sure Feb 12 23:14:19 really. thats great. guess i know my next project Feb 12 23:14:48 what is it what is it! Feb 12 23:15:40 i have a HTC wizard. my neo will not work here cause 850 Feb 12 23:16:42 im on it now. i love the hardware just not the software Feb 12 23:17:21 theey should've agreed on one band.. Feb 12 23:17:23 *sigh* Feb 12 23:17:30 KrisAbsinthe: So you're off neo for now? Feb 12 23:17:47 KrisAbsinthe: Think you'll buy an 850 mhz freerunner when they're available? Feb 12 23:17:51 god no. waiting for the 02 Feb 12 23:18:02 yes lol Feb 12 23:19:11 i had this in the crate and fixed it the other day. figured i could use it Feb 12 23:20:35 hm as to the bands.. Feb 12 23:21:10 you will most probably not find many interested in the US of A since it doesn't work for them.. Feb 12 23:21:48 it works in most areas. im just remote Feb 12 23:27:10 good for you Feb 12 23:27:40 i'd rather be remote Feb 12 23:27:41 lol thats funny Feb 12 23:28:12 not me. i grew up in the city. my wife likes the country Feb 12 23:28:21 you learn to value the silence Feb 12 23:28:46 once you live at a high traffic street Feb 12 23:29:30 i love city noises. not sure if i miss the violence though Feb 12 23:29:50 i figure you know more violence than me Feb 12 23:30:21 yeah, warmongering government Feb 12 23:30:45 i love the green and seing the horizon a little lower like it's out in the country Feb 12 23:30:54 I wanted to move to germany. Feb 12 23:31:13 do you know it? Feb 12 23:32:34 no, good industrial music comes from there. I am not sure i like the way most americans are so sure of their superiority Feb 12 23:34:57 being sure of oneself isn't the problem, the superiority thought is. i'm sure they'll learn it. might take some time.. and losses (economically) Feb 12 23:35:58 it took a lot for germans to leave it.. Feb 12 23:38:59 I looked a bit on your election Feb 12 23:39:37 it's quite a way of doing it (obama i mean) Feb 12 23:39:40 rather interesting Feb 12 23:39:57 KrisAbsinthe: I would say most areas in the US don't have 1900 coverage Feb 12 23:40:01 sounds so democratic.. Feb 12 23:40:02 but most *people* do Feb 12 23:40:16 openmoko: 03werner * r4054 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (bq27000-battery-driver.patch series): (log message trimmed) Feb 12 23:40:16 openmoko: introduce-bq27000-battery-driver.patch Feb 12 23:40:16 openmoko: From: Andy Green Feb 12 23:40:16 openmoko: This is a driver for the bq27000 found in the Highcell A5 Feb 12 23:40:16 openmoko: battery, and the platform device stuff for it for GTA02. It Feb 12 23:40:20 openmoko: is a Power Supply Class battery device. Feb 12 23:40:22 openmoko: The driver doesn't contain an HDQ engine but accepts pointers Feb 12 23:40:22 I can't find obama saying anything about policy :-( Feb 12 23:40:31 he is a great speaker Feb 12 23:40:49 but he never seems to say anything with much substance Feb 12 23:40:58 he's always going we, we and change, change Feb 12 23:41:08 yeah Feb 12 23:41:10 hilary is I for you.. Feb 12 23:41:16 and it really works Feb 12 23:41:23 yes I can imagine Feb 12 23:41:27 a lot of people Feb 12 23:41:29 now, topic is openmoko. not politics. Feb 12 23:41:36 true :-) sorry Feb 12 23:41:40 please move that elsewhere, like query. :) Feb 12 23:41:49 esp the ones who are really pissed, probably like the idea of taking a bigger part Feb 12 23:42:41 gotta go, dinnertime Feb 12 23:42:45 pf, it's not like it was going to be a war in here, or that the channel is so crowded it could disturb other discussions Feb 12 23:42:59 einalex: its still offtopic. Feb 12 23:43:05 so what? Feb 12 23:43:18 so take it elsewhere. thx. eot. Feb 12 23:44:28 i hope you enjoy the silence Feb 12 23:51:28 openmoko: 03werner * r4055 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/ (config/defconfig-2.6.24 patches/bq27000-battery-driver.patch): (log message trimmed) Feb 12 23:51:28 openmoko: Some build fixes after introduce-bq27000-battery-driver.patch Feb 12 23:51:28 openmoko: patches/bq27000-battery-driver.patch: Feb 12 23:51:28 openmoko: - arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/Kconfig: MACH_NEO1973_GTA02 also selects POWER_SUPPLY Feb 12 23:51:28 openmoko: and BATTERY_BQ27000_HDQ Feb 12 23:51:32 openmoko: - drivers/power/Kconfig: GTA02_HDQ section ended up outside the "if ... endif" Feb 12 23:51:34 openmoko: config/defconfig-2.6.24: Feb 13 00:13:24 XorA|gone: | /home/moko/build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/qtopia-phone-4.3.1-r1/qtopia-opensource-4.3.1/devices/default/environment: 3: Syntax error: "(" unexpected Feb 13 00:20:56 Has anyone here already used git-format-patch/git-send-email? Feb 13 00:22:29 cesarb: yes Feb 13 00:22:30 cesarb: yep Feb 13 00:23:29 Any hints? Both commands have a lot of options in common, and well, lots of options... Feb 13 00:23:35 s/hints/advice/ Feb 13 00:23:35 cesarb meant: Any advice? Both commands have a lot of options in common, and well, lots of options... Feb 13 00:24:00 * cesarb wants to use them to avoid the pain which is to disable/reenable "flowed" on TB Feb 13 00:24:16 well, git-format-patch is easy, just pass the tag as parameter, the tags can be copied by mouse from cg-log output Feb 13 00:25:03 git-send-email when i used it didn't support TLS so i had to hack it to use it with gmail and then on a system update forgot to back up my copy because it was in /usr/bin :p Feb 13 00:25:07 i hear it's better now Feb 13 00:34:53 hello my moko monkeys Feb 13 00:35:01 i keep on looking around for a phone Feb 13 00:35:03 and damnit Feb 13 00:35:05 i want my moko Feb 13 00:35:21 stop looking, start waiting Feb 13 00:35:22 nothing even comes close Feb 13 00:35:29 einalex: lol Feb 13 00:38:39 holycow: we're working on it. Feb 13 00:39:45 raster: the specs for gta02 are impressive Feb 13 00:39:59 holycow: mostly - except gfx Feb 13 00:40:03 theres a few gotchas there Feb 13 00:40:09 we need to see what we can do Feb 13 00:40:18 specs said it had an accelerator chip? Feb 13 00:40:35 its not like that matters so much imho Feb 13 00:40:47 Yeah, but it's connected to the CPU by two monkeys with tin cans and a string. Feb 13 00:40:56 lol Feb 13 00:41:21 yeah well theres only so much that can be done in any given time frame Feb 13 00:41:39 But wow when the data finally does make it to the graphics chip, those photons are FAST!!!! Feb 13 00:41:46 holycow: when u need to drive 640x480.... it matters Feb 13 00:41:50 sure Feb 13 00:41:57 ohhhh Feb 13 00:41:57 u can do really boring plain gfx Feb 13 00:42:02 thats pretty high resolution actually ... Feb 13 00:42:13 but to do anything interesting... i.e. "iphone-level" graphics Feb 13 00:42:18 right Feb 13 00:42:19 That's a lot of bits, and the bus is kinda slow :( Feb 13 00:42:19 with wooshing zooming fading etc. Feb 13 00:42:25 then u are in twubble Feb 13 00:42:29 yeah folks love the wooshing and zooming Feb 13 00:42:59 * mwester-road didn't think he was the type to get "wooshed and zoomed", but he sure liked the iphone when he got to play with one... Feb 13 00:43:07 raster hehe.. well.. find me a gfx which has no gotchas... imho such a cp doesnt exist Feb 13 00:43:23 s/cp/chip/ Feb 13 00:43:24 roh meant: raster hehe.. well.. find me a gfx which has no gotchas... imho such a chip doesnt exist Feb 13 00:43:42 roh: actually.... i know of 1 - well 1 i am more sure of than any others that has no "gotchas" Feb 13 00:43:56 well it has 1 gotcha Feb 13 00:44:00 no open sdk. Feb 13 00:44:00 well considering that we don't really use wooshing and zooming and htings like that on the destkop really ... Feb 13 00:44:02 ... Feb 13 00:44:04 yet Feb 13 00:44:07 its not like its a letdown or anything Feb 13 00:44:17 holycow: i consider it a letdown. Feb 13 00:44:56 eitither it has gotchas or it has so unfree drivers that they are hiden and it just takes longer to fall over thhem Feb 13 00:44:59 doesn't E do that? Feb 13 00:45:10 lovely graphics for low cost Feb 13 00:45:59 "lovely graphics for low cost" -- wasn't that a hit song by AC/DC? Feb 13 00:46:07 lol Feb 13 00:46:17 i can live with normal gfx Feb 13 00:46:18 dunno, i don't remember song titles Feb 13 00:46:25 there is always v.3.0 Feb 13 00:46:34 er, no, that was "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap". Similar, though. Feb 13 00:46:45 * einalex checks again on e17 (you should do that once in a while..) Feb 13 00:47:12 heh.. you might be waiting a while for an e17 release Feb 13 00:47:24 i won't Feb 13 00:47:29 i gave that up years ago Feb 13 00:47:29 srta like duke nukem forever Feb 13 00:47:40 einalex: it does - but when u put 2 monkeys and a tin can between the cpu and the framebuffer... it kind of limits how much u can manage Feb 13 00:47:41 :) Feb 13 00:47:57 monkeys can be fast Feb 13 00:48:18 you have to scare them though..it doesn't work for long Feb 13 00:49:28 raster it just means that you should refrain from doing stuff outside the gpu ;) Feb 13 00:49:36 ljp: why wait for a release. thats what cvs it for! Feb 13 00:49:37 is Feb 13 00:49:38 :) Feb 13 00:49:51 not only that, the vid accelerator things can be even fixed in a later production batch i'm sure Feb 13 00:49:55 roh: yeah. that sucks when the gpu only does a subset of what u need! :) Feb 13 00:49:55 which is good for power consumption of the host cpu ;) Feb 13 00:50:02 raster you know as well as we do that cvs is not for users, Feb 13 00:50:05 probably wouldn't even need to wait for an updated version Feb 13 00:50:32 raster: it does scale blit and colorspace conversion and clipping, right? Feb 13 00:50:33 einalex: and tarballs and compiling isnt for users either. Feb 13 00:50:34 any thoughts on what pricerange it might be available in initially? Feb 13 00:50:35 :) Feb 13 00:50:40 yes Feb 13 00:50:45 it's a bit like reiser4 Feb 13 00:50:53 thats what i need and am fine Feb 13 00:50:53 as long as no distro ships it Feb 13 00:50:57 it doesn#t really matter Feb 13 00:51:10 roh: yes. Feb 13 00:51:12 * einalex shrugs Feb 13 00:51:33 roh: what about over blend? u don't need that? Feb 13 00:52:01 *hmm* 400 mhz cpu Feb 13 00:52:06 nope. wel.. some 8bit alpha would be nice for fonts... Feb 13 00:52:16 thats pretty powerfull Feb 13 00:52:18 but i dont care about alphachannel besides that in UI. mostly makes it less production Feb 13 00:52:21 roh: u seem to have very simple requirements then :) Feb 13 00:52:28 you might be able to get away with running kde minus all the destkop apps on here Feb 13 00:52:44 i want a clean fast and powerful UI. not one that only looks good and can do shit Feb 13 00:52:45 't Feb 13 00:53:00 someone appearently got plasma working on one recently ... that could eventually use a really good accelerated graphics config indeed Feb 13 00:54:15 roh: actually you want the apps for the UI as well Feb 13 00:54:19 raster, might be a blessing in disguise..... :-) all the gfx kiddies will have to buy GTA03 as well....sorry for your letdown though.... Feb 13 00:54:47 einalex ack. Feb 13 00:55:01 my reference is a razr v3i from moto ;) Feb 13 00:55:15 roh: does that have any real bling? Feb 13 00:55:30 not nice, but easy and powerful. with ugly bugs i want to get rid of at some point. Feb 13 00:55:37 no bling at all. Feb 13 00:55:48 yeah Feb 13 00:55:55 thats pretty much the case for all phones Feb 13 00:55:59 even smartphones Feb 13 00:56:05 br3n: true Feb 13 00:56:06 :) Feb 13 00:56:38 ah bling is extra Feb 13 00:56:41 but it can send sms to lists of people or does work reliable most oif the times. Feb 13 00:56:47 first get the syncing and the pim right Feb 13 00:56:51 and the battery Feb 13 00:56:55 and the app integration Feb 13 00:57:00 base price $450 for freerunner? Feb 13 00:57:03 thats very reasonable Feb 13 00:57:15 and for whatevers sake a spam filter on the mail app Feb 13 00:57:20 after all that i care for the bling Feb 13 00:58:01 all the bling makes you feel good in the first 2 weeks Feb 13 00:58:15 einalex my words;) i want all thzat what i couldnt do with my featurephone. i care only a biut about classic smartphone stuff. i just want a phone which i can use every day and add the little stuff which annoys us everywhere else. Feb 13 00:58:26 whats about blacklists for people you dont wanna speak right now? Feb 13 00:58:27 but after that all the missing features (like on the iphone (not broken)) will nagg you.. Feb 13 00:58:35 the best you get is a 'stop ringing button' Feb 13 00:59:34 to be fair i still have to be convinced about touchscreens ;) i like buttins with a click (the whole reson for the razr) Feb 13 00:59:53 but that may be because i am not from the us or asia *veg* Feb 13 01:00:00 i still have to be convinced of buttons Feb 13 01:00:20 they all stop functioning after 2-3 years Feb 13 01:00:21 roh: i agree Feb 13 01:00:23 you use them right now on a keyboard, right? Feb 13 01:00:24 i hate touch screens Feb 13 01:00:28 with every damned phone i ever owned Feb 13 01:00:28 give me buttons any day Feb 13 01:00:47 i mean buttons on a phone Feb 13 01:00:51 touch screens are okay for specific functionality Feb 13 01:01:00 say scrolling through an image library or something Feb 13 01:01:16 .oO(airplane entertainment systems) Feb 13 01:02:38 primarily having access to ssh over this device tho would be kool even with a bluetooth thumb kb Feb 13 01:02:47 i tried nokia, sony ericsson, siemens. all buttons died, let's try something new. Feb 13 01:03:17 einalex: you need to use your hands to press the buttons Feb 13 01:03:23 stepping on the keys doesn't work Feb 13 01:03:25 just a tip Feb 13 01:03:27 *cough* Feb 13 01:03:28 :) Feb 13 01:03:35 i will try that Feb 13 01:03:40 einalex thats normal.. i would call it wearoff... i also get a new keyboard every year for my notebooks Feb 13 01:03:54 normal? Feb 13 01:04:04 EVER ENCOUNTERED THAT WITH A NORMAL PHONE YOU USE AT HOME? Feb 13 01:04:07 oh Feb 13 01:04:11 sry for the capslock Feb 13 01:04:29 time to redefine that key.. Feb 13 01:04:44 einalex have you ever carried such a phone in your pocket for the same time? Feb 13 01:05:06 what does that got to do with it? Feb 13 01:05:18 you can disassemble and clean the stuff Feb 13 01:05:22 but ti doesn't help Feb 13 01:05:23 i know that effects from every keyboard.. if its on a pc, on a remote-control for the tv, on a dect phone as well as on every kind of gsm. its a reason for replacement parts Feb 13 01:05:59 if they would built these things to last, that wouldn't bea problem Feb 13 01:06:09 but they don't they want you to buy new ones Feb 13 01:06:21 even admitted it in court Feb 13 01:07:10 on that rubbermats is a thin layer of conductive material which gets destroyed by dust, water and coca cola (remotes you kneo) Feb 13 01:07:27 a guy sued them because his country's law says you need to provide a 5 year warranty and they didn't want to replace the phone after the 2 year warranty Feb 13 01:07:37 the whole point is that these stuffs get built to last 18-48month max Feb 13 01:08:03 i know how the things work, i like to look at the stuff when it's brocken to see what can be done Feb 13 01:08:09 my words Feb 13 01:08:15 and building stuff which is so stable that it lasts ages is that more expensive that these manufs just build military and industrial goods now or are out of business Feb 13 01:08:18 they aren#t built to last Feb 13 01:08:26 let's see how long a touchscreen will last Feb 13 01:08:28 endusers do not care enough it seems. Feb 13 01:08:42 yeah they don't Feb 13 01:09:05 i would gladly spend the 5 dollars it takes to built it lasting double the time Feb 13 01:09:27 i would gladly pay 10% more or 20 when it keeps up 5 years.. but to be true.. who can predict which technology ou wanna use in 5 years? Feb 13 01:09:44 noone Feb 13 01:09:47 btw.. i had a siemens S25 before the razr (and that now for 2 years, still alive) Feb 13 01:10:00 i am already a _long_ time user of that stuff Feb 13 01:10:04 is the moko usb port a standard usb mini port? Feb 13 01:10:05 i had an m55 Feb 13 01:10:16 or one of those custom connection cable dongles? Feb 13 01:10:19 interestingly only the buttons used to navigate the menu die Feb 13 01:10:34 holycow yes. mini-usb-b Feb 13 01:10:34 atleast with my phones Feb 13 01:10:44 roh: sweet, that also powers up the device? Feb 13 01:10:50 yes. Feb 13 01:10:54 niiiiiiiice Feb 13 01:10:59 i've been waiting for this for ever Feb 13 01:11:14 frankly that alone justifies buying one of these Feb 13 01:11:35 but it needs a active bus to find out it can draw 500mA. when you plug it somewhere dumb (only 5V) it will limit to 100mA (and still discharge the battery thus if active) Feb 13 01:11:50 makes sense Feb 13 01:12:02 gta02 will also be able to switch that port to host and source 100mA 5V for whatever Feb 13 01:12:43 you guys are mostly working on software at this point in time i guess? Feb 13 01:13:02 both is going forward. Feb 13 01:13:11 cool Feb 13 01:13:32 actually i am quite happy about the hw and system level (uboot, drivers, kernel) progress lately Feb 13 01:18:39 openmoko: 03werner * r4056 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta01-pcf50606.patch pcf50633.patch): (log message trimmed) Feb 13 01:18:39 openmoko: fix-pcf50606-set-irq-type.patch Feb 13 01:18:39 openmoko: fix-pcf50633-set-irq-type.patch Feb 13 01:18:39 openmoko: From: Andy Green Feb 13 01:18:39 openmoko: Remove set_irq_type and use IRQF_FALLING with interrupt enabled all the Feb 13 01:18:41 openmoko: time. Feb 13 01:18:45 openmoko: Use a mutex to stop any reentrancy Feb 13 01:18:53 thank you for the info guys Feb 13 01:21:34 roh: I am seeing you guys are *really* trying hard to fix every single thing people complained about on GTA01 :D Feb 13 01:23:32 cesarb yes... even if gta02 is higher prio we need to keep our roots working and maintained. Feb 13 01:24:05 werner and andy know that and sometimes i think it really horts that there is not time to do everywhing which would be good and nice Feb 13 01:24:36 but patches are welcome Feb 13 01:24:50 and needed. om would not be where it is without the comminity Feb 13 01:24:53 +u Feb 13 01:25:11 the devs yho bought the 01 will surely appreciate it Feb 13 01:25:12 roh: well... just sent a batch of patches to the mailing list :D Feb 13 01:25:56 * cesarb announces to the channel: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-February/001021.html Feb 13 01:28:45 cesarb, congrats :) now to get some people testing it! Feb 13 01:29:15 btw.. i will be doing gsm fw updates on request for people in germany soon. Feb 13 01:29:17 openmoko: 03werner * r4057 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta01-pcf50606.patch pcf50633.patch series): (log message trimmed) Feb 13 01:29:17 openmoko: fix-pcf50606-atomic-i2c-int-read.patch Feb 13 01:29:17 openmoko: fix-pcf50633-atomic-i2c-int-read.patch Feb 13 01:29:17 openmoko: Datasheet says reading the interrupt source regs (and thereby Feb 13 01:29:17 openmoko: clearing them) must be done in a single i2c read transaction Feb 13 01:29:21 openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green Feb 13 01:29:22 so not only michael in the us does that Feb 13 01:29:22 openmoko: series: temporarily backed out fix-pcf50633-LOWBAT-kill-init.patch, since it Feb 13 01:29:43 smlsfb: it's not quite ready for testing... it's more so the kernel devs can point out areas which are obviously wrong Feb 13 01:30:18 smlsfb: of course, if they decide to get the patches and enhance them (or complete the missing parts - especially on GTA02 which is harder for me to do), it would be great Feb 13 01:30:19 cesarb: great, i hope it gets picked up quickly Feb 13 01:30:54 that's fair Feb 13 01:30:59 balrog-kun: I doubt it, as I said, it's not ready (but they might decide it's more ready than other things they already picked, so... I really have no idea if it will be picked or not :D ) Feb 13 01:31:18 cesarb: are you planning to send to linux-arm-kernel also? Feb 13 01:31:37 then omenmoko-kernel wouldn't have much choice :p Feb 13 01:32:58 balrog-kun: only after it's REALLY ready. The openmoko kernel is more accepting of experimental code than the upstream. Feb 13 01:33:14 balrog-kun: just look at the churn of the ar6k driver, for instance Feb 13 01:34:00 balrog-kun: the trouble is that it _should_ be easy... just add a notifier to each driver, it's kinda boilerplate... however... Feb 13 01:34:27 balrog-kun: we have things like the usb gadget driver which is always turned on (why? because nobody turned it off... :P ) Feb 13 01:34:33 balrog-kun: lots and lots of detail Feb 13 01:34:43 cesarb: well, ar6k is strictly openmoko :p Feb 13 01:34:53 this is mostly s3c2410 Feb 13 01:35:06 cesarb: Do you plan to add support for the SD card? I would like to use your patches but I have my root filesystem on SD. Feb 13 01:35:12 balrog-kun: and things don't work... the serial driver didn't like some frequencies, the framebuffer driver deadlocked, and so on... Feb 13 01:35:16 plus ar6k is a really really unacceptable state for the upstream Feb 13 01:35:20 *in Feb 13 01:36:05 mmontour: well, I *plan* to add support for all the GTA01 devices and some of the GTA02 devices, but the *order* in which I will do so... SD will probably be dead last, since AFAIK it already doesn't work even without cpufreq :D Feb 13 01:38:19 mmontour: however, the SD card will probably be one of the "easy" ones (add two notifier blocks, set up the notifiers at the correct places, update the frequency in the transition notifier, use the policy helper in the policy notifier, update the policy when something interesting happens) Feb 13 01:38:48 mmontour: unless it's one which (like serial) has to "quiesce" the hardware. THAT is annoying to do... (serial for instance, which took me quite some time) Feb 13 01:39:10 * cesarb didn't actually look yet, currently at USB Feb 13 01:39:54 Unfortunately I can't really help there - I don't know the details of how the SD driver works, and I don't currently have enough free time to learn it. Feb 13 01:40:09 mmontour: who has enough free time? :D Feb 13 01:40:45 Anyway, thanks for what you've done so far. Feb 13 01:43:38 openmoko: 03werner * r4058 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (3 files): (log message trimmed) Feb 13 01:43:38 openmoko: fix-pcf50633-LOWBAT-kill-init.patch Feb 13 01:43:38 openmoko: fix-pcf50606-LOWBAT-kill-init.patch Feb 13 01:43:38 openmoko: [ GTA01 part untested but highly likely to be fine. ] Feb 13 01:43:38 openmoko: Until now the driver treats LOWBAT as a fatal crisis and responds Feb 13 01:43:40 openmoko: by going postal on init. But the driver didn't think that we can Feb 13 01:43:44 openmoko: have adapter or USB power and no battery, which is fine. Feb 13 01:54:36 openmoko: 03werner * r4059 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/pcf50633.patch: Feb 13 01:54:36 openmoko: pcf50633.patch: Feb 13 01:54:36 openmoko: - drivers/i2c/chips/pcf50633.c (pcf50633_detect): don't use "marketing name" to Feb 13 01:54:36 openmoko: identify the driver Feb 13 02:11:04 "...untested but highly likely to be fine" <---- Boy, those are Famous Last Words!!! :-) Feb 13 02:12:01 (Right in the category of "The fix was so simple, I didn't feel it necessary to test it." :p ) Feb 13 02:12:42 heh Feb 13 02:13:01 fortunately it only means that wpwrak has not tested it but andy has obviously Feb 13 02:14:14 "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." Feb 13 02:31:55 Any super good tricks for coming out of deep discharge ? Feb 13 02:45:59 KrisAbsinthe: have you tried http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger#Neo1973_emergency_charging ? Feb 13 02:50:55 mmontour: Yeah, just hoped there was a hack. Maybe some U-boot and kernel code to avoid deep discharge Feb 13 02:55:20 The "hack" for now is to pull the battery for a few seconds after shutting down the phone (to turn off the GSM modem). There will eventually be a proper fix in software. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 02:59:57 2008