**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 08 10:59:56 2008 Mar 08 11:41:50 any gprs users online? Mar 08 11:42:00 with Neo Mar 08 11:42:13 Yes Mar 08 11:42:27 But I dont' ahve a script at teh moment as I accidentally lost it Mar 08 11:42:31 with "pppd debug nodetach call gprs" I get Mar 08 11:42:32 # pppd debug nodetach call gprs Mar 08 11:42:32 Connect script failed Mar 08 11:42:32 Terminating on signal 2 Mar 08 11:42:32 Modem hangup Mar 08 11:42:32 Connection terminated. Mar 08 11:42:54 look at how to get a verboxse log drom connect Mar 08 11:42:56 from Mar 08 11:43:18 where does it log? not under /var/log/ Mar 08 11:43:31 You've got to pass it a flag Mar 08 11:43:34 I forget Mar 08 11:43:37 aha :) Mar 08 11:43:49 and the flag is? Mar 08 11:44:00 I forget Mar 08 11:45:11 a flag to pppd? Mar 08 11:45:28 no - connect is a seperate program Mar 08 11:45:36 a stupid scripting program Mar 08 11:50:37 hmm http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS doesn't say anything about a 'connect' Mar 08 11:50:43 what network u trying to connect? Mar 08 11:51:47 Elisa Mar 08 11:51:53 man pppd Mar 08 11:51:54 bah Mar 08 11:51:58 look at the 'connect' option Mar 08 11:52:06 EMT, this is my second sim Mar 08 11:52:11 Ah Mar 08 11:52:15 'chat' is the name of hte program Mar 08 11:52:26 I thought the same Mar 08 11:52:51 chat -v Mar 08 11:53:09 will log to syslog Mar 08 11:53:38 #!/bin/sh -e Mar 08 11:53:38 exec chat -v\ Mar 08 11:53:39 .. Mar 08 11:53:45 i finally got my free t-mobile sim in the post took like a month and sent me 2!!! Mar 08 11:53:47 it is already in that page Mar 08 11:53:52 and in my Neo Mar 08 11:53:57 so will try and configure that soon Mar 08 11:54:43 aha Mar 08 11:54:46 do not use syslog Mar 08 11:54:51 /var/volatile/log/messages Mar 08 11:56:10 I can find only wtmp there Mar 08 11:57:43 ERROR AT+CPIN\?\ Mar 08 11:57:43 "+CPIN: READY-AT+CPIN=\"2222\"-OK" AT\ Mar 08 11:57:55 is that referring to the real pin? Mar 08 11:57:59 no Mar 08 11:58:03 ok Mar 08 11:58:11 it's sending 2222 Mar 08 11:58:27 you need to swap that for the real pin I think Mar 08 12:00:47 i have working vodafine scripts if it helps but im not using a PIN Mar 08 12:00:55 vodafone even Mar 08 12:01:00 zedstar: have you stuck them somewhere? Mar 08 12:01:22 zedstar: I haven't seen a complete tar.gz or whatgever of all the required files Mar 08 12:01:29 i shud edit the wiki i guess! Mar 08 12:02:31 basically tho i found online and edit slightly Mar 08 12:02:47 didnt use the wiki version i couldnt get that working when i tried Mar 08 12:02:57 http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/01/11/gprs-connection-with-openmoko/ Mar 08 12:05:10 i will try and do the same with the t-mobile payg one i have Mar 08 12:05:29 i was gonna collect a few sims but lost the will after it took so long Mar 08 12:05:38 I put the APN for t-mobile up on the wiki Mar 08 12:05:59 yeh so the vodafone script shud work with little change i think Mar 08 12:08:29 The only problems I had with getting it working before was with getting all the timings right, so if it works for voda, I ca't imagine it wouldn't with voda Mar 08 12:09:10 it somestimes fails to connect but more often than not works Mar 08 12:10:08 I ended up throwing away chat, and writing something in awk, as chat was annoying me. Mar 08 12:10:25 it is a pain to debug Mar 08 12:10:32 those scripts Mar 08 12:12:12 speedevil btw i found out quite a bit of info about the tcp ressting connections......there was a big debate about this on a industry mailing list Mar 08 12:12:46 speedevil basically telecomms companies are ****'s was the answer lol Mar 08 12:13:08 they are doing fake rsts? Mar 08 12:13:26 Or just NAT flushinf connections that have been up too long Mar 08 12:13:48 well it is operator specific but they dont document their practices... 5mins seems to be a time on a couple of them that will reset the tcp session if idle Mar 08 12:13:57 it is daft as u still stay connected to gprs Mar 08 12:14:16 so if u develop a PUSH protocol u need to handle this Mar 08 12:14:26 they can change it and mess with your head anytime Mar 08 12:14:32 yes! Mar 08 12:14:34 connection! Mar 08 12:14:49 cool ahven Mar 08 12:14:58 now do a ping and weep at the latency ;) Mar 08 12:15:08 the strange thing is - I didn't do anything special Mar 08 12:16:57 and now it works, replaced -v with -V Mar 08 12:17:13 though it doesn't do anything special than logging :P Mar 08 12:22:12 what country is your network ahven? what is your ping time like to say google on your connection? Mar 08 12:22:59 Estonia Mar 08 12:23:01 just a sec :) Mar 08 12:23:22 zedstar: uk - up to 2s is worst case - 200ms or so best Mar 08 12:23:47 is interesting to get a feel for the variance Mar 08 12:24:11 mine i think is averaging about 700ms i think Mar 08 12:24:24 but yeh big variance Mar 08 12:24:27 IIRC 4-500ms was ytyp Mar 08 12:25:09 several times slower than an average home broadband connection Mar 08 12:26:37 strange Mar 08 12:26:51 the gsm modem device dissapeared after I killed pppd Mar 08 12:38:33 SpeedEvil: seems that I have to try again until it connects Mar 08 12:39:25 why did they replace the full keyboard anyway in the gui? Mar 08 12:39:32 the terminal app is pretty useless now Mar 08 12:39:49 have to kill the app to end a ping Mar 08 12:41:08 why don't you use ssh ? Mar 08 12:41:40 I do use it, but when no other computer is near? Mar 08 12:42:10 make yourself a couple of shell scripts Mar 08 12:42:42 although a full keyboard would be nice if you could choose it Mar 08 12:42:44 anyone figured out how to solve the problem with openmoko-qemu and flash.sh? (qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000000) Mar 08 12:43:04 yeah, the keyboard should be choosable imho Mar 08 12:51:11 matchbox-panel should display if a ppp0 device exists or not Mar 08 12:51:31 currently I have to hear it from my speakers, the easiest solution Mar 08 12:51:55 should visit the bugzilla later Mar 08 12:59:40 ahven what kind of timins ddid you have to use, to get ppp link up Mar 08 12:59:47 I'm having a problem with it myself Mar 08 12:59:58 i can dial pdp session manually Mar 08 13:00:09 but ppp doesn't "attach to it" Mar 08 13:02:30 haven't changed it ccfly, should it maybe required for near-always successful connection attempt Mar 08 13:02:51 1 out 3 or something like that currently Mar 08 14:05:56 wow, the illume demo looks really slick Mar 08 14:09:18 just wondering, will freerunner be avalable in the black colour that is shown on the wiki? Mar 08 14:10:08 cb22: I hope, I want it in all-black... Mar 08 14:10:31 cb22, Do you have a link to the demo? Mar 08 14:10:48 kdean06: sure, http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi Mar 08 14:10:56 OasisGames: same here, it looks quite nice Mar 08 14:12:56 Thanks. :) Mar 08 14:20:12 abraxa_: looks like we share the same question :) Mar 08 14:50:03 ahven: See Switching_Keyboards on the wiki Mar 08 15:25:30 wurp2: thanks :) Mar 08 15:25:46 at the time it was changed, there wasn't such a solution Mar 08 15:45:46 I've asked this three times now and still haven't gotten an answer, but anyway: Does the Matchbox included with OpenMoko have a compositor? The various mockups lead me to believe it would be a required feature, and the inclusion of XRender support in the drivers for the gfx. card would make it entirely possible. Mar 08 15:46:53 theoretically yes Mar 08 15:47:10 practically there's no way you can use composit on a system that slow Mar 08 15:52:41 mickey_away: i don't suppose you have any enlightening knowledge about the all black case design on the wiki front page :) ? Mar 08 15:53:45 * mwester figures all-black is relatively easy to do for anyone who can aquire a small can of black paint... Mar 08 15:53:54 Good Mornin' Mar 08 15:54:04 y Mar 08 15:54:50 if it wern't black they would show it a diff color Mar 08 16:00:08 mickey_away: Slow? Bull. 400mhz with a graphics card on a 640x480 display is not slow. I can run Compiz on a 1680x1050 display with a GeForce 2 on 1.5ghz, I think this phone can handle simple compositing of alpha mapped windows on a much smaller screen. Mar 08 16:01:06 OasisGames, hehe Mar 08 16:01:26 There's more to it than CPU speed. Mar 08 16:01:36 There's nothing to it about CPU speed. Mar 08 16:01:41 400MHz remote X over 100mbit ethernet. Mar 08 16:01:47 Is a more accurate portrayal. Mar 08 16:01:53 (for GTA02 Mar 08 16:03:09 Or X over 802.11G Mar 08 16:03:52 This sounds like a challenge. Mar 08 16:04:13 X over 802.11G is doable w/ compression (vnc & friends) Mar 08 16:04:41 I'm just saying that the bus to the graphics card is 7M/s Mar 08 16:04:44 Um, with xhost I can get a connection over 802.11G to my server and easily fish out Firefox windows with it... Mar 08 16:05:13 GTA02 isnt a mega beast or anything, its a good generation behind HTC mobiles, in hardware, but a generation ahead in software Mar 08 16:05:41 However, being a generation ahead, the software can't actually do much yet. Mar 08 16:05:51 It needs to mature some :) Mar 08 16:05:57 XorA|gone: you mean, it will be a generation ahead,..at some point :) Mar 08 16:06:20 Blastur: its buzzword compliant now :-D Mar 08 16:06:30 ^^ Mar 08 16:08:15 400mhz ARMv4, same as my PDA, but my PDA doesn't have a graphics accelerator or 128mb of fully operable RAM. Mar 08 16:08:26 ahoi Mar 08 16:09:24 And your arguments about it being like remote X over 802.11g are either way off, or just not valid, because if it's anywhere near what I'm experiencing right now with 802.11g on a full 1280x800 display running, of all things, Firefox, it's gonna be the best dang experience I'll have ever had on a phone. Mar 08 16:10:58 OasisGames: it's not really as good as X - as the graphics card supports a _lot_ fewer operations than proper X Mar 08 16:11:17 It's somewhere between X and vnc Mar 08 16:12:08 The graphics card - for exampe supports really fast blitting of arbitrary rectangles, but if anything is done that involves alpha, it's got to be repainted from the host Mar 08 16:12:12 At 7M/second Mar 08 16:13:25 Is this driver issues that have yet to be resolved, or is because of how it's wired? Or does the chip just not have that kind of functionality? Mar 08 16:13:37 It's fundamental Mar 08 16:13:52 The chip can basically barely do 640*480 Mar 08 16:14:15 So the limitations of it are not really a big problem at its normal resolution of 320*240 Mar 08 16:14:18 (or so) Mar 08 16:14:43 just out of interest, how does the iphone handle its effects? Mar 08 16:15:02 But with a full VGA screen, it's got very little off-screen memory available, and any repaints that the accellerator can't handle are only 1/4 the amount of data Mar 08 16:15:11 But with a full VGA screen, it's got very little off-screen memory available, and any repaints that the accellerator can't handle are 4* the amount of data Mar 08 16:15:18 cb22: PowerVR MBX in the CPU Mar 08 16:15:47 pH5: i know about the hardware part, i was referring to the software bits Mar 08 16:16:06 cb22: as the chip is integrated it just doesn't have the bandwidth issues Mar 08 16:16:17 ah, rght Mar 08 16:16:23 So what advantages do we really have with the glamo in comparsion with GTA01? Mar 08 16:16:29 Few. Mar 08 16:16:48 It can do simple 2D accel stuff quite well. Mar 08 16:16:53 So bit blits are faster. Mar 08 16:17:37 We dont eat ram bandwidth just updating the screen with a static image Mar 08 16:17:37 i just hope, that at least DMA will be working Mar 08 16:17:42 Yeah. Mar 08 16:17:49 7M and no DMA will suck badly. Mar 08 16:17:49 gta01 speand a lot of ram bandwidth displaying nothing Mar 08 16:18:12 XorA|gone: true - But 'only' 18M/s Mar 08 16:18:14 7M? Mar 08 16:18:26 cbrake_away: a figure raster was throwing around yesterday Mar 08 16:18:31 cb22: Mar 08 16:18:43 SpeedEvil: means we can clock that ram bus down, save power (well could if it was a decent CPU :-) Mar 08 16:19:07 XorA|gone: of course. Mar 08 16:19:11 SpeedEvil: what's it in? or is it just 7 million? Mar 08 16:19:34 cbrake_away: 7Mbytes/second bandwidth on the bus to the glamo as I understand it. Mar 08 16:21:22 Oh yuk Mar 08 16:21:31 Rereading rasters comments. Mar 08 16:22:01 It seems that if DMA mode can be done - it's probable that you can't actually use other RAM while the DMA is proceeding Mar 08 16:23:08 IIRC raster at some point said the glamo could do alpha blends but in only limited formats, wasit 24+24->16 Mar 08 16:23:15 Bah, back to the dependable world of x86 processors and Intel graphics chipsets that support EXT_texture_from_pixmap... OpenMoko will look rather bland on the Neo if it doesn't have any ARGB visual support... Mar 08 16:24:42 i just hope, that GTA03 will sort all those things out, because they will have more time to check the requirements of the chips etc. Mar 08 16:25:10 Or they'll just use 500Mhz CPU chip and a 240*320 display, and the problems go away :/ Mar 08 16:26:19 pining after compositing is just, well, rather idiotic at this point Mar 08 16:26:39 is there any other way to do nice transparencies and the like? Mar 08 16:26:49 That doesn't make the problems go away, it just works around them... I'd like to see a better graphics chipset and actual plans for OpenGL support in a future model, but I'm still going to buy the GTA02 when it's released... Mar 08 16:26:58 you know, that's something you can do after you have a solid core system if you really want to Mar 08 16:27:09 SpeedEvil: Im still hoping for an mx33 :-) Mar 08 16:27:55 * mjr expects that if there's gonna be a significantly better gpu, somebody will have had to sell out for überproprietary drivers :I Mar 08 16:28:17 anyone know what the deal with this 'pricing plan' is? i read in the latest community update that the price for Freerunner has not been set yet, but afaik, theyve announced it at $450 from the start? they gonna change that now? Mar 08 16:28:49 That was so a guess. Mar 08 16:29:08 Blastur: cheaper would be great ;) Mar 08 16:29:22 * mjr notices Aria being here Mar 08 16:29:25 Frankly, I just don't get the desire for the graphics stuff. I have no intention of playing Doom 3 on my phone; nor do I need compiz-style windows that "wiggle"... I need smooth scrolling and quick window-to-window changes, and I'm perfectly happy giving up some color depth, or snazzy effects. Mar 08 16:29:36 +1 Mar 08 16:29:42 -1 Mar 08 16:29:44 mwester, indeed Mar 08 16:29:44 +1 too :) Mar 08 16:29:45 Hey, mjr. Always here. Mar 08 16:29:51 +-0 Mar 08 16:29:55 i agree mwester! Mar 08 16:30:00 mwester: I note no requirement to work as a phone :-D Mar 08 16:30:01 hehe :) Mar 08 16:30:07 yes I agree, too. but i think battery life could be improved Mar 08 16:30:16 XorA|gone: ;) Mar 08 16:30:19 oh, I do like some video playing as well Mar 08 16:30:33 mjr: +1 Mar 08 16:30:46 Good audio would be higher on my list than video playing... Mar 08 16:30:59 we need a multimedia machine :) Mar 08 16:31:07 They annouced at $450 at the start. Mar 08 16:31:07 Bah, I'm a Compiz dev, my only point in asking was that I'd love to see the same stuff I work with every day on my phone. Mar 08 16:31:08 i even don't want transparency it should just be as fast as possible Mar 08 16:31:11 mwester, +1 Mar 08 16:31:12 * mwester is rather sad that the excellent (relatively speaking) speakers on the 01 didn't make it in the 02 Mar 08 16:31:13 but happily, gta01 already does decent enough video (when recoded for it), and the glamo should be okay for that anyway Mar 08 16:31:25 w/ a beautiful screen as in the neo, video playback is a must Mar 08 16:31:37 I've said that I doubt that $450 is a realistic consumer price point. Mar 08 16:31:42 And hardware alpha compositing would be nice for webkit. Mar 08 16:31:57 yeah $450 is a geek price point :I Mar 08 16:32:01 Especially with a 9(?) month delay in the middle Mar 08 16:32:13 mwester: i think wlan was the better decision, for one speaker ;) Mar 08 16:32:17 When was it first supposed to hit? Mar 08 16:32:28 Last august? Mar 08 16:32:29 RGBA support'd be nice for all the popup dialogs I keep seeing in the mockups. Mar 08 16:32:30 Yeah Mar 08 16:32:31 september 2007 Mar 08 16:32:34 i think they should make more expensive and use the diff to hire more devs! Mar 08 16:32:46 More devs makes it later! Mar 08 16:32:46 what do you think the price will be, SpeedEvil? Mar 08 16:32:55 SpeedEvil: what is your opinion as a realistic price? Mar 08 16:33:00 Adding WiFi was the selling point for me... Mar 08 16:33:00 Aria, heh Mar 08 16:33:01 if you make it more expensive you're competing with ARM11 phones Mar 08 16:33:07 That's a hard question. Mar 08 16:33:27 300 - 350 Dollar would be a good price i think Mar 08 16:33:28 I think $350ish Mar 08 16:33:54 Very. Mar 08 16:33:58 arm1136-ej D: Mar 08 16:34:14 Go and look at prices of 'sim free' phones with similar 'sticker' performances. Mar 08 16:34:14 a lower price would be nice Mar 08 16:34:22 but there isn't really much room in the low quantity production Mar 08 16:34:27 i bet Mar 08 16:34:54 Needs more advertising. Mar 08 16:34:57 we musst wait :) Mar 08 16:35:02 I dunno. I can make a moko-clone (with admittedly less RAM and ROM) for about $500 in ones. Mar 08 16:35:16 (8 bit screen only) Mar 08 16:35:24 And larger case. Mar 08 16:35:27 Anyway, is OpenMoko going to be at the GSoC this year? I'm trying to nudge the other C-F guys into going... Mar 08 16:35:39 I don't have a good feel for what GTA01 will cost. Mar 08 16:35:50 I don't have a good feel for what GTA01 did cost in BOM terms. Mar 08 16:36:15 BOM? :P Mar 08 16:36:20 Bill Of Materials Mar 08 16:36:26 ah Mar 08 16:36:33 How much all the bits cost before assembly Mar 08 16:36:55 and important => what cost the assembly ... Mar 08 16:37:08 True. Mar 08 16:37:13 when the process is not very good, thats a expensive point Mar 08 16:37:15 OasisGames, michael@openmoko.com is google summer of code guy this year i think......... (Michael Shiloh) Mar 08 16:37:36 PBeck: when you're not doing tens of thousands, yes. Mar 08 16:38:14 SpeedEvil: i think that would be the target Mar 08 16:38:37 they said they were going to do 10 times as many 02 as 01 to start with......how many 01 did they do Mar 08 16:38:59 SpeedEvil: when the openmoko software is ready => the end consumer market is big ;) Mar 08 16:39:33 jamewill: about 2-5K Mar 08 16:39:35 PBeck, thats gta03 you are talking about.... fast graphics and 3g Mar 08 16:40:05 SpeedEvil, so you think they sold it under or over BOM cost? Mar 08 16:40:07 jamewill: i dont know Mar 08 16:40:39 morricone: I _think_ well above. Mar 08 16:40:43 jamewill: why should openmoko inc. not sell the freerunner, when the hardware is good and the software ready Mar 08 16:40:48 I'd hope so. Mar 08 16:41:00 As a guess, I'd suspect the raw BOM is $160. Mar 08 16:41:04 morricone: however, probably not much if any over total assembly costs. Mar 08 16:41:14 PBeck, many will buy gta2 - incl me Mar 08 16:41:28 PBeck, but TRUE mass market needs a lot more Mar 08 16:41:35 jamewill: me too of course ;) Mar 08 16:41:40 For example, a similar board - 6 layer 100*50mm 1mm thick costs about $4. Mar 08 16:41:43 it's niche markets for a time being I guess Mar 08 16:41:46 (in 1K) Mar 08 16:41:54 jamewill: what needs the market? Mar 08 16:42:06 But ohter bits are harder to price. Mar 08 16:42:59 jamewill: i think the gta02 hardware is simliar to the iphone hardware (a few thinks cpu, camera and so on are lacking) but i think the hardware is not so bad) Mar 08 16:43:50 * SpeedEvil wishes he could design his own phone. Mar 08 16:44:05 * SpeedEvil wishes he could design his own nice phone. Mar 08 16:44:15 jamewill: when they have the possibility to earning money with the hardware, why not :) Mar 08 16:47:38 jamewill: or you think thats wrong? :) Mar 08 16:48:11 jamewill: i hope that they can sell the freerunner, but i have no information ;) Mar 08 17:14:24 Hi everyone, I'm trying to connect to my GSM provider with GPRS, but I'm having a little trouble. Anyone tried this before Mar 08 17:30:05 PBeck: What CPU Does the iphone got? Mar 08 17:31:11 elation: i think a 600 mhz cpu in this direction Mar 08 17:35:03 http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/ Mar 08 17:35:27 ccfly: ah thanks super :) Mar 08 17:36:05 frankly i really don't need that much processing power in my phone Mar 08 17:36:15 i read somewhere that it is closer to 400... Mar 08 17:36:21 i would rather have better battery life Mar 08 17:37:45 cb22: The speed it self, depends on what type of CPU it is. Mar 08 17:42:12 peter_harrison: tried and failed Mar 08 17:42:32 I have got as far as connecting and getting an IP address Mar 08 17:42:34 I can dial and establish connection to mobile service provider Mar 08 17:42:39 but PPP doesn't work Mar 08 17:42:41 yet Mar 08 17:42:48 I can get PP up. Mar 08 17:42:54 then you get farther than I did Mar 08 17:43:06 has anyone been doing any wotk with the bt ui ? Mar 08 17:43:07 so what doesn't work ? Mar 08 17:43:25 From what I can see there is one APN, but two gateways Mar 08 17:43:47 The default gateway gets an IP, and you can use DNS, but thats about it. Mar 08 17:44:18 The other gateway leads you to a address space that you can actually connect to stuff on. Mar 08 17:44:37 I have used the same simcard in another phone to connect and verify. Mar 08 17:44:45 So why not use the other APN? Mar 08 17:45:07 Its just one APN - the same for both. Only the gateway is different. Mar 08 17:45:27 route add default gw foo Mar 08 17:45:29 ? Mar 08 17:46:09 The problem is the IP address I get in negociation. Mar 08 17:46:31 Because its in the 10.xx.xx range it gets filtered. Mar 08 17:46:43 The other gateway is 172.xxx.xxx Mar 08 17:47:25 So, even though I configure my side okay the packeds don't get through. Mar 08 17:48:04 you can configure pppd Mar 08 17:48:08 to require IP Mar 08 17:48:12 s in certain ranges Mar 08 17:48:17 look at man pppd Mar 08 17:48:22 Yes, I'm just reading the man now. Mar 08 17:49:01 looks like you can specify the endpoint. Mar 08 17:52:09 I currently start with the debug board on the neo Mar 08 17:52:12 cb22: the black case on the front page is the new case Mar 08 17:52:29 but I have some difficulties to get the console running Mar 08 17:53:33 from minicom on /dev/ttyUSB1: Mar 08 17:53:35 mickey_away: sweet :) can i quote you on that? Mar 08 17:53:36 gta01-pm-gsm gta01-pm-gsm.0: powering up GSM, thus disconnecting serial console Mar 08 17:53:43 cb22: sure Mar 08 17:54:02 how can the console be restarted? Mar 08 17:54:16 echo "0" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on Mar 08 17:54:26 and what more? Mar 08 17:54:29 mickey_away: Great! That brings up new UI possibilities! A black case, with black buttons, on a black background! Mar 08 17:54:38 Save lots on battery power! Mar 08 17:56:29 if I run getty by hand from ssh, the password is asked from ssh... Mar 08 17:57:11 just hit enter Mar 08 18:04:23 sorry, I continue a little bit :-) Mar 08 18:04:38 currently the console does not respond at all Mar 08 18:04:53 last line displayed: Mar 08 18:04:55 gta01-pm-gsm gta01-pm-gsm.0: powering up GSM, thus disconnecting serial console Mar 08 18:05:45 I simply try this from ssh Mar 08 18:05:47 /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0 Mar 08 18:05:53 is it wrong? Mar 08 18:06:11 how are you connecting to this console? Mar 08 18:06:20 via debug board Mar 08 18:06:35 there is some magic I think to disabling the GSM modem Mar 08 18:06:38 have you done that? Mar 08 18:06:48 only the power_on at 0 Mar 08 18:07:12 I don't know the proper way to do it - but the debug and gsm serial share. Mar 08 18:07:26 you've killed gsmd I suppose? Mar 08 18:08:32 yeah, you'll need to shutdown gsmd Mar 08 18:08:35 however, reading all on the debug board on the wiki may be of use Mar 08 18:09:19 gsmd has been nuked. no effect yet Mar 08 18:09:46 did you stop it properly? Mar 08 18:09:54 /ect/init./gsmd stop Mar 08 18:10:00 ah ok. Mar 08 18:10:18 you'll need to power up the gesm after that too... Mar 08 18:10:27 then you should be able to connect ok. Mar 08 18:11:00 echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on Mar 08 18:11:03 to power up Mar 08 18:12:15 ok, thanks. I have now a verbose output on the console (pcf50606_irq messages) Mar 08 18:13:30 so I come back to the getty question sorry Mar 08 18:14:29 is that correct for you: Mar 08 18:14:31 /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0 Mar 08 18:17:06 I use minicom :) Mar 08 18:18:00 I use too Mar 08 18:21:07 whith this: Mar 08 18:21:10 nohup /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0 Mar 08 18:21:23 the password is displayed on the ssh session... Mar 08 18:21:51 and I would like to be able to stop ssh from the console. Mar 08 18:21:55 so no go Mar 08 18:22:02 with: Mar 08 18:22:05 nohup /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0& Mar 08 18:22:18 no password is displayed :/ Mar 08 18:23:47 by password displayed, I mean the password input field, sorry. Mar 08 18:26:30 long time since community update :( Mar 08 18:38:29 spydon: yeah Mar 08 18:39:03 I think it's about time that we get an official release date Mar 08 18:40:02 CVirus, Yeah that too Mar 08 18:40:52 CVirus, I can understand that they don't know if they will find more hardware bugs but still, it several months late :( Mar 08 18:41:42 FIC shall hire more developers to speedup the process Mar 08 18:42:19 coffee break Mar 08 18:43:04 wurp2: ping Mar 08 18:44:46 More developers = later. Mar 08 18:44:54 Can't believe I've said that twice today. Mar 08 18:45:03 yeah probably, in all case if they come in this late Mar 08 18:45:38 * cb22 needs to choose between a htc touch dual and gta02 Mar 08 18:47:25 just wondering, does anyone here know of a way to measure voltage with a serial port? like a serial port voltmeter Mar 08 18:48:02 a micro, a breadboard, and a bit of code? Mar 08 18:48:06 or maybe something like http://www.bitscope.com/ Mar 08 18:48:29 also if you're super cheap sometimes you can use the audio in Mar 08 18:49:03 hmm, i want to use it for measure the voltage of a 12v sla, so i know its charge status Mar 08 18:49:17 how do you mean i could use audio in? Mar 08 18:49:34 mm well audio in is just a analog to digital converter Mar 08 18:49:37 *an Mar 08 18:49:44 but you have to be careful to not overload it Mar 08 18:50:12 i've never used it that way, though Mar 08 18:50:18 cbrake_away: serail port voltmeters are not that expensive Mar 08 18:51:36 cb22: Mar 08 18:51:38 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DMM-Auto-Range-Multimeter-PC-Interface-Data-Logging_W0QQitemZ250220696370QQihZ015QQcategoryZ58277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Mar 08 18:52:40 huh, amazing D: Mar 08 18:52:53 SpeedEvil: perfect, thanks :) Mar 08 18:53:24 i forgot to check out ebay Mar 08 18:54:16 It can also be useful to search for stuff to buy elsewhere. Mar 08 18:59:01 http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/index.php Mar 08 18:59:19 hehe browser security test :P Mar 08 19:00:40 * cb22 tests ffb3 Mar 08 19:01:41 no issues :) now for ie6... Mar 08 19:02:03 ^^ Mar 08 19:03:09 lol Mar 08 19:03:15 compiz died Mar 08 19:03:52 yep, ie got owned Mar 08 19:04:01 hehe :P Mar 08 19:04:12 my compiz did fine zash :P Mar 08 19:04:15 Congratulations! The test has found no vulnerabilities in your browser! Mar 08 19:04:18 yay Mar 08 19:04:23 which browser? :P Mar 08 19:04:35 ff2 Mar 08 19:04:58 2.0.0.12 Mar 08 19:05:03 same here :P Mar 08 19:06:22 * zash tries again to see if compiz dies again Mar 08 19:07:18 hm Mar 08 19:07:36 probably bug in focus-change-animation Mar 08 19:08:50 ah Mar 08 19:20:42 opera did well to Mar 08 19:21:36 and konqueror Mar 08 19:23:11 :( Mar 08 19:23:21 i forgot my bios password Mar 08 19:24:52 remove the BIOS battery and re-insert it again Mar 08 19:25:04 laptop Mar 08 19:25:08 :( Mar 08 19:25:10 ouch Mar 08 19:25:14 indeed :( Mar 08 19:25:20 i shouldn't have put a password on there... Mar 08 19:25:28 or i should have written it down somewhere.... Mar 08 19:27:14 there must be someway ... google it Mar 08 19:27:17 uriahheep: there's a trick you can do Mar 08 19:27:22 with assembly Mar 08 19:27:25 what Mar 08 19:27:27 I'll see if I can find it Mar 08 19:27:32 does it involve a heavy blunt object Mar 08 19:27:36 lol Mar 08 19:28:44 Vegar: is it something on the lines of cmospwd? Mar 08 19:29:57 it breaks the CMOS CRC checksum, which resets the cmos Mar 08 19:29:58 IIRC Mar 08 19:30:16 heheh Mar 08 19:30:18 oh, wait Mar 08 19:30:34 if its in the cmos, and it runs linux Mar 08 19:30:41 you can reset it through /dev/nvram Mar 08 19:30:50 ie dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nvram, i think Mar 08 19:31:44 anrp: or, i could maybe dd if=/dev/nvram of=myfile.txt Mar 08 19:31:45 :P Mar 08 19:31:58 well saving it isn't a bad idea Mar 08 19:31:59 but umm... no Mar 08 19:32:08 of course if it can't recover from the corruption then its really fucked ~_~ Mar 08 19:32:10 mov al,0; mov dx, 60; out dx,al; inc dx; out dx, al; Mar 08 19:32:11 there Mar 08 19:32:13 /dev/nvram doesn't exist :P Mar 08 19:32:17 modprobe nvram Mar 08 19:32:18 do that Mar 08 19:32:32 anrp: ah... Mar 08 19:32:38 to quote: "that forces (if in non-protected mode) your BIOS settings to fail CRC check, so you can "override" the BIOS password" Mar 08 19:33:00 actually, save it first Mar 08 19:33:04 and check the size Mar 08 19:33:14 if its under a k or so, then its just the settings Mar 08 19:33:26 but if its like 1mb, then its the whole bios, and you've got to be really careful ~_~ Mar 08 19:33:53 hmm... Mar 08 19:33:57 i suspect but i'm not sure that it should just be the settings Mar 08 19:34:29 Vegar: link? :P Mar 08 19:34:40 uriahheep: it's from my chat log Mar 08 19:34:47 hrm... Mar 08 19:35:26 http://www.tech-faq.com/reset-bios-password.shtml Mar 08 19:35:33 uriahheep: there are some backdoor passwords you can try Mar 08 19:36:33 yeah Mar 08 19:36:34 thanks Mar 08 19:36:39 anything for acer? Mar 08 19:37:32 http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/CmosPwd <-- says it works with acer Mar 08 19:37:32 mm if its really simple (doubt it but hey), cat /dev/nvram | strings Mar 08 19:40:58 Vegar: yeah, but read what it says about laptops ;) Mar 08 19:41:07 Vegar: besides, i tried it and it gave me a segfault :) Mar 08 19:41:19 heh Mar 08 19:41:32 you could open your laptop and remove the cmos battery Mar 08 19:41:36 openmoko: 03werner * r4179 10/developers/werner/neocon/neocon.c: Mar 08 19:41:36 openmoko: neocon.c (main, bps_to_speed): the "-b bps" option was broken because we didn't Mar 08 19:41:36 openmoko: translate the data rate to a speed_t value. Now we do. Mar 08 19:42:58 how can i obtain bios information from inside linux? Mar 08 19:43:05 like... is there anything in /proc or something? Mar 08 19:48:59 there are some nodes in /sys/class/dmi/id/ Mar 08 19:51:18 thanks Mar 08 20:00:25 gosh Obama is really nice! Mar 08 20:50:04 ScaredyCat: pong, finally Mar 08 20:51:50 uriahheep: even laptops have a "BIOS battery" Mar 08 20:52:49 uriahheep: which is in fact the RTC battery which keeps time while the main battery is not connected, and also usually keeps the BIOS settings (historically both were in the same RTC chip on x86 PC machines) Mar 08 20:55:17 hmmm Mar 08 20:55:34 cesarb: where is it usually placed on the mobo? Mar 08 20:55:55 cesarb: actually not typiocally. Mar 08 20:56:18 uriahheep: there's no usual location, check the laptop's service manual (the Dell I use IIRC has it on the memory compartment, stashed hidden in a corner) Mar 08 20:56:34 cesarb: most laptops 'nowdays' - since a decade or so - back up the password to flash Mar 08 20:56:39 IMO Mar 08 20:58:23 SpeedEvil: well, I'm not much of a laptop user myself, only using one at work currently Mar 08 20:59:40 uriahheep: if the password is on flash, doing CRC tricks with the NVRAM won't erase it too. If removing the battery doesn't work, breaking the NVRAM CRC shouldn't work too. Mar 08 20:59:54 openmoko: 03werner * r4180 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/usbtmc/README: Fixed a few silly typos. Mar 08 21:00:21 If you can actually touch the NVRAM Mar 08 21:00:42 Some laptops use as I understnad it an embedded controller in which the password is stored. Mar 08 21:00:47 That makes it much harder. Mar 08 21:06:08 * cesarb wonders if the SD card not working bugs were fixed in these last couple of weeks I wasn't looking Mar 08 21:12:36 Can someone explain the most likely reason for seeing 'Error, TMPDIR has changed ABI (0 to 1)' Mar 08 21:15:50 Cthobs: Upstream change, requiring you to rebuild everything from scratch. Mar 08 21:16:01 make clobber and all? Mar 08 21:16:44 I just removed my "build/tmp" dir, but "make clobber" is probably similar Mar 08 21:17:44 ok, thanks Mar 08 21:17:55 yop Mar 08 21:30:47 bonne nuit Mar 08 21:31:37 morgen ;-) Mar 08 21:31:57 danke Mar 08 21:32:06 bitte Mar 08 21:32:10 ;-) Mar 08 21:32:17 :} Mar 08 21:35:18 hrm... Mar 08 21:35:24 sorry about the delayed response Mar 08 21:35:29 so, basically, i'm fucked. :P Mar 08 21:35:33 openmoko: 03werner * r4181 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/usbtmc/ (README usbtmc.c): Mar 08 21:35:33 openmoko: README: described multiple trigger bug (?) and work-around Mar 08 21:35:33 openmoko: README: corrected description of -r (it only repeats the last command, not the Mar 08 21:35:33 openmoko: entire sequence) Mar 08 21:35:33 openmoko: usbtmc.c (main): new option -e to repeat the last command indefinitely Mar 08 22:39:32 wurp2: tis ok, I found out who you really are another way >:) Mar 08 22:42:09 what's the most appropriate way for synching two embedded devices? I'm concerned that rsync could hose the target machine... Mar 08 22:44:30 two-way synch? Mar 08 22:44:47 rsync is one-way, "sync" only in that it's making one like the other without transferring everything Mar 08 22:47:21 rsync is unidirectinal, a example for bidirectonal (two-way) would be unison Mar 08 22:47:45 in this case I'm only looking for unidirectional Mar 08 22:47:45 Exactly. Mar 08 22:47:50 Or SyncML, though ew. Mar 08 22:48:04 conduit is a more general syncing framework Mar 08 22:48:18 unison operates specifically on files, syncml operates on vcards/ical entries/notes Mar 08 22:48:32 well, rsync does a perfect job for unidirectional, but I doubt that this is what on embedded devices (phones) should be used Mar 08 22:48:39 Indeed. Mar 08 22:48:43 .oO(I'd want two-way on a phone) Mar 08 22:49:04 it's a one-off ;-) Mar 08 22:49:34 one device has been configured by someone else who didn't log their changes Mar 08 22:49:44 ok, if you can, use rsync Mar 08 22:53:17 just a note about reenabling the console for the debug board: Mar 08 22:53:36 here inittab use tty1 as default tty Mar 08 22:53:56 I just symlinked ttySAC0 as tty1 and restart getty Mar 08 22:54:22 and stopped gsmd as advised by SpeedEvil and ScaredyCat Mar 08 22:54:32 a note has been added to the wiki Mar 08 22:54:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2#Serial_Port Mar 08 23:04:37 Stephmw_mobile: I'd simply tar everything piping the output to netcat Mar 08 23:11:29 mmmmm, bobsalad Mar 08 23:24:41 bye Mar 08 23:53:24 bob or boobsalad? :) Mar 09 01:08:40 moin Mar 09 01:58:41 Does anyone online happen to know if gprof and/or gcov can be used on code compiled for the neo1973 ? Mar 09 01:59:01 * * OM Bug 1258 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net Mar 09 01:59:02 * * Consider some defconfig changes for busybox Mar 09 01:59:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1258 Mar 09 02:05:33 darn Mar 09 02:06:01 powermanagement is not really working yet Mar 09 02:06:16 my neo just froze while waking up due to a call Mar 09 02:06:35 doh Mar 09 02:07:00 and in totally unrelated news, iphone apps will not get background execution Mar 09 02:07:58 so no location sensitive todo list (which would remind me of picking up something from a location while I walk past it during the right time) Mar 09 02:08:15 but I'll see that on free runner I bet Mar 09 02:16:18 Did you read about that iphone app restriction somewhere? If so, would you tell me where? Mar 09 02:17:19 It's been all over the news. The Unofficial Apple Weblog Mar 09 02:17:34 Thanks! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 18 21:11:42 2008