**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 19 02:59:57 2008 Mar 19 03:00:06 * XorA is in .tw office now Mar 19 03:00:25 XorA: oh, cool. please greet the guys from me! Mar 19 03:01:17 * XorA catches up on OM build breakages Mar 19 03:01:37 summatusmentis: 2 ways to compile. one static, one dynamic. the dynamic one loading plugins via dlopen, the static allows configuring the supported stuff into one binary Mar 19 03:02:25 ah OM got GSoC done on time, cool Mar 19 03:02:30 * XorA has been out of loop Mar 19 03:02:41 summatusmentis: but that's build system stuff. featurewise, please just see the stuff at fs.o. I think the major work is getting the API right, Mar 19 03:02:48 XorA: yeah, guess who had to do it :/ Mar 19 03:03:29 mickeyl|bossa: re Angstrom, both Crofton and Florian misread the end time as being 5pm, not 12pm Mar 19 03:03:41 mickeyl|bossa: to GPE missed as well Mar 19 03:03:50 summatusmentis: and then the framework implementation. once we have this, adding more plugins should be a breeze Mar 19 03:03:53 XorA: bummer Mar 19 03:04:17 this year a whole lot of orgs got accepted Mar 19 03:04:41 mickeyl|bossa: I should be able to mentor the right project for OM, Ill have to figure out how this stuff works Mar 19 03:04:53 excellent Mar 19 03:05:00 i'll write something regarding soc tomorrow Mar 19 03:06:01 * XorA hasnt done GSoC stuff before Mar 19 03:06:16 mickeyl|bossa: as the potential mentor for this potential project, I assume it would be your job(potentially) to walk me through how an API works, let alone how to write one? :) Mar 19 03:06:37 I mean, i understand the concept, it's implementation for me from here Mar 19 03:06:45 summatusmentis: hmm.... not walking through, but rather guiding ;) Mar 19 03:06:50 mickeyl|bossa: I had emailed you regarding a SoC application today but seeing as you're here I may as well ask; has any hardware been chosen for the accelerometers, or, barring that, the interface they are to use to talk to the processor (I2C/SPI...)? Mar 19 03:06:58 mickeyl|bossa: of course, of course :-) Mar 19 03:07:13 macdonalder: of course. we're a couple of weeks away from mass production :) Mar 19 03:07:14 macdonalder: yes Mar 19 03:07:25 macdonalder: the hardware is published on wiki.openmoko.org Mar 19 03:07:29 ahh, excellent... Mar 19 03:07:40 interface right now is cat /dev/input/event/* Mar 19 03:07:40 I must have been looking at the wrong page then Mar 19 03:07:52 should be a _really_ cool project Mar 19 03:07:52 oh, even better! Mar 19 03:08:06 * macdonalder was worried he'd have to write kernel code or something :S Mar 19 03:08:09 but not easy though, guess you need some math Mar 19 03:08:17 yes Mar 19 03:08:37 Are there any projects in particular that you would have desire to mentor? Mar 19 03:08:50 openmoko: 03jeremy * r4218 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/ (setup_at_neo_diversity.script setupenv): Mar 19 03:08:50 openmoko: 2008-03-19 Jeremy Chang Mar 19 03:08:50 openmoko: For adding diversity testing support. Mar 19 03:11:05 well, i can only do so far. i would _love_ to have someone working on the dedicated efl widgets stuff Mar 19 03:11:12 s/far/much/ Mar 19 03:11:12 mickeyl|bossa meant: well, i can only do so much. i would _love_ to have someone working on the dedicated efl widgets stuff Mar 19 03:11:26 but also would love to have people working on middleware Mar 19 03:11:37 (which is even more important, but less sexy) Mar 19 03:11:45 mickeyl|bossa: just organise the full stack as 3 GSoC projects :-) Mar 19 03:11:54 hehe Mar 19 03:11:56 make that 7 Mar 19 03:11:58 but yeah Mar 19 03:12:22 i'm actually looking at low-level device driver or kernel level. i would settle for middleware Mar 19 03:13:36 i think driver and kernel is looking pretty good these days Mar 19 03:13:42 most work now needs to be userland Mar 19 03:20:19 Well, that's a bummer. What middleware would you suggest i look into? Mar 19 03:22:18 basically we need event, preferences, location, telephony, network, device Mar 19 03:22:30 out of these, device, event, and preferences are not really started Mar 19 03:23:23 yet Mar 19 03:28:58 great, thanks for the information Mar 19 03:29:39 np Mar 19 03:51:25 rwhitby: ping Mar 19 03:59:35 queueRAM: syn|ack Mar 19 04:00:02 hah Mar 19 04:00:22 just curious, does the MokoMakefile require git now? Mar 19 04:03:04 MokoMakefile doesnt require git, building OpenMoko does require git Mar 19 04:06:17 good deal Mar 19 04:09:09 XorA: thx Mar 19 04:09:45 rwhitby: hey Im almost in your timezone :-) Mar 19 04:10:02 you're in .tw? Mar 19 04:10:56 rwhitby: yeah Mar 19 04:11:16 can you pilfer a gta02 off the PVT run for me? Mar 19 04:11:46 I heard there's no P0 this time, so I need to pull other strings ;-) Mar 19 04:12:33 And a confirmation that there will/won't be no P0 would be nice. Mar 19 04:13:53 My guess is the new marketing manager said "What do you mean we're *giving* away *free* phones to some hackers???!!!" Mar 19 04:14:26 my GTA02 has been nicked for testing as t-mobile UK is causing hassles Mar 19 04:14:42 meanwhile, both my GTA01's refuse to charge a battery, so I'm moko-less. Mar 19 04:15:10 also know as "NoMoko". Mar 19 04:15:26 www.nomoko.com Mar 19 04:16:58 * SpeedEvil is on t-mobile-uk Mar 19 04:17:03 Works fine for me Mar 19 04:17:05 GTA01 Mar 19 04:17:09 Moko1 Mar 19 04:17:41 SpeedEvil: bug #1024 Mar 19 04:18:03 !bug 1024 Mar 19 04:18:13 * SpeedEvil tries to remember how to trigger that. Mar 19 04:18:16 !ombug 1024 Mar 19 04:18:17 * * Bug 1024, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown Mar 19 04:18:18 * * mickey(AT)openmoko.org: gsm modem oscillating between registrated / not-registrated Mar 19 04:18:19 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024 Mar 19 04:19:57 XorA: whatever is on www.nomoko.com, I need a password for it :-) Mar 19 04:38:27 03/18/2008 - The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production Validation Test (PVT) Mar 19 04:38:31 yay Mar 19 04:52:58 right on! Mar 19 05:19:27 anyone know how long before it hits production if that's all good? and from then to release? Mar 19 05:19:44 doc|home, "Soon". :) Mar 19 05:19:58 Pilot production runs begin this week, or early next. Mar 19 05:20:31 possible to answer how long is a full production run? Mar 19 05:20:45 i.e. all things being good, when can we get our filthy mitts on them? :) Mar 19 05:20:48 Assuming nothing is wrong, news should be coming soon. And I expect a recent duscussion lit some fires, so more news will be soming around soon, like if that run was ready or not. :) Mar 19 05:21:05 excellent Mar 19 05:21:11 so. the troll won? :) Mar 19 05:21:41 Not really. :P Mar 19 05:22:08 I think a lot of people expressed themselves, which should lead to more communication. :) Mar 19 05:22:18 I should go into politics, really. :D Mar 19 05:22:52 * SpeedEvil expresses himself in terms of dance. Mar 19 05:22:55 That conversation, quite frankly, quickly moved from marketing to community. I'm not sure how much impact it had by the end. :P Mar 19 05:23:07 But there was expression, for what it's worth. :) Mar 19 05:29:11 kdean06: hehe Mar 19 06:10:45 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4219 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: remove AUX button key event (bug#1282) Mar 19 06:31:45 * Fradeve è a spasso: Pero ora assente. Mar 19 06:55:56 openmoko: 03tick * r4220 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/setupenv: adding some information Mar 19 06:55:59 can anybody help me understand the "Acceptance Criteria" for OpenMoko product ? Mar 19 06:58:15 aristocrat: from who's point of view? the hardware manufacturer, the software release QA manager, the marketing manager, the carrier, or the customer? Mar 19 06:59:26 good morning Mar 19 06:59:49 rwhitby, i would be beleive the customer and QA manager ? Mar 19 07:00:22 aristocrat: well, you define the former, and I doubt the latter would be disclosed. Mar 19 07:01:09 aristocrat: Well the latter simplified is "does it work within acceptable bounds" Mar 19 07:01:31 (Openmoko is an open _software_ project, not an open hardware or open business practices project) Mar 19 07:01:35 aristocrat: but there are hundreds of tests in the test suite and I doubt we will ever publish them all Mar 19 07:02:13 ok, so how would one define if it works within acceptable bounds..? Mar 19 07:02:27 aristocrat: does X% of the test suite pass Mar 19 07:02:48 there should be some sane document or information which shows what the openmoko is supposed to deliver Mar 19 07:03:04 aristocrat: there is a product feature list Mar 19 07:03:32 no company is insane enough to print the real list of QA tests :-) Mar 19 07:04:25 XorA, well if not the whole list, but maybe an overhead of features that is to pass an acceptance criteria Mar 19 07:05:03 aristocrat: I beleive the product specs are on the wiki, otherwise known as advertising :-) Mar 19 07:05:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware Mar 19 07:05:46 quite a bit more detailed than what you get from Nokia ;-) Mar 19 07:07:21 thats very true. But yet i would have wished to read through some "Acceptace Criteria" document.. guess no chance.. Mar 19 07:08:45 aristocrat: why do you believe that Openmoko should provide such a document? Mar 19 07:09:16 (i.e. what set the expectation that such a thing would be provided by a commercial company?) Mar 19 07:10:45 Well, its an acceptance criteria is a document that shows what expectations the customer should derive from the company, and the company pulls their heads and tails to come up with their customers would really get and should test out to be acceptable Mar 19 07:11:11 it will be like any other company, any feature that doesnt work which is not public will just never be listed in final documentation Mar 19 07:12:00 thats true. But there are features that are expected, and how it should have worked from a customer's point of view is a valid open document.. right? Mar 19 07:14:24 * XorA just noticed that the building across the road from OM office has a Klingon Bird of Prey on it Mar 19 07:15:24 aristocrat: isn't that the wiki page I referenced? Mar 19 07:16:55 Yes, but thats a list. but expected results that a customer could test is not listed in the document. Mar 19 07:17:06 oh.. well i guess such documents dont really exist..:) Mar 19 07:18:41 aristocrat: I've never seen such a thing made public. Mar 19 07:18:51 (I've seen lots under NDA) Mar 19 07:19:33 companies generally avoid allowing a customer to hold them to some standard. too easy for lawsuits to result from that type of thing. Mar 19 07:19:36 that document public would be suicide for any company\ Mar 19 07:19:44 indeed. Mar 19 07:20:01 * XorA knows because some idiot salesman from a previous company actually sent that document to a customer Mar 19 07:21:36 do indirectly mentioning that i can never get my hands on one such document.. Mar 19 07:22:34 aristocrat: I have to be careful what I say as I work for OpenMoko, and I don't speak the official company line Mar 19 07:22:43 * XorA doesnt have the authority Mar 19 07:23:26 XorA, can you direct me to someone who has authority :) Mar 19 07:23:47 aristocrat: community@lists.openmoko.org Mar 19 07:26:01 XorA, ok, but was wondering if such a 'single' individual was prowling somewhere in here.. Mar 19 07:26:20 aristocrat: no, but the upper management of OM do read that mailing list Mar 19 07:26:47 aristocrat: and we also have community liasons officer who is actually the path such questions should go Mar 19 07:27:03 alritee.. worth a try isnt it? .. maybe i should get some kinda reply.. Mar 19 07:27:50 aristocrat: Sean Moss-Pultz is probably the person you want to speak to. Mar 19 07:28:18 * rwhitby doesn't work for Openmoko, so can say what he likes ;-) Mar 19 07:28:47 aristocrat: what purpose do you wish to use such a document for? Mar 19 07:30:05 (i.e. in addition to a feature list, and a hardware release where it's clear that someone in Openmoko has given the O.K. for that hardware release according to some internal quality assurance goal being met, of what use to the community is such a document in addition to those things?) Mar 19 07:31:02 cause for a company to release such a legally-sensitive document to anyone, would require a very important justification. what is your justification for it's release? Mar 19 07:32:09 * rwhitby has a pet peeve about people expecting Openmoko to have open business practises in addition to the stated promise of open software development. Mar 19 07:32:40 * XorA wonders when we hire rwhitby as our jack boot squad :-) Mar 19 07:33:23 aristocrat: don't take my comments personally - I really am interested in why you want such a document ... Mar 19 07:33:38 (other than just plain old curiosity) Mar 19 07:34:12 rwhitby, i quite interested in being a customer level person who could help get OM better.. Mar 19 07:34:27 open source helping mentality kinda guy ? ;) Mar 19 07:34:53 aristocrat: ah, so what you really want to look at is the bug list then ;-) Mar 19 07:35:14 when all those are closed, then you've helped get OM better :-) Mar 19 07:36:12 aristocrat: seriously, the best acceptance criteria from a customer point of view is simply to use it as your only phone for a week and see if you're frustrated or delighted Mar 19 07:37:01 Yes thats true, but i wanted it to be on a more 'professional' level... Mar 19 07:37:28 but don't you see that legal danger that a company would put itself in by releasing such a document? Mar 19 07:38:18 Not even Intel guarantees that your x86 processor will divide correctly ... Mar 19 07:38:44 aristocrat: look at Kevin Deans daily reports, make them more detailed Mar 19 07:38:57 aristocrat: link them to bug numbers and your 95% of the way there Mar 19 07:39:11 aristocrat: and helps us internally Mar 19 07:40:08 XorA, i guess so. With these documents, you could as usual put a *-Conditions Apply.. and so danger is ommitted ;) .. buts its not as easy as it sounds.. Mar 19 07:40:22 XorA, i guess i got good help from you.. appreciate it.. Mar 19 07:41:04 aristocrat: sorry to be so negative, but such a document simply will never be released by any company. Mar 19 07:41:55 rwhitby, Xora, its totally understandable. But deep within i thought they still was a chance..:) Mar 19 07:43:40 aristocrat: instead when GTA02 comes out, if its missing features you need shout loud Mar 19 07:44:10 maybe GTA03/4/5/6/7/8/9 has those features if enough people need them Mar 19 07:44:43 and no thats not an announcement of GTA03/4/5/6/7/8/9 :-D Mar 19 07:45:31 oohh.. when are we gonna get GTA03??? :) Mar 19 07:49:28 dec 12th, 2157 Mar 19 07:51:27 madwoota: we will be six months late of course :-) Mar 19 07:54:59 morning Mar 19 08:10:14 question: why openmoko. i mean theres a number of different open source projects out there now Mar 19 08:11:16 because its more open :) Mar 19 08:11:41 hmm... more open eh? Mar 19 08:11:48 OpenMoko is like the goatse man of open source :-) Mar 19 08:11:58 hehehehe Mar 19 08:12:10 banned in 205 countries ?!??! Mar 19 08:12:14 lol Mar 19 08:14:12 [2008-03-19 06:09:40] openmoko: erin_yueh * r4219 /trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: remove AUX button key event Mar 19 08:14:13 wtf Mar 19 08:14:18 !ombug 1282 Mar 19 08:14:20 * * Bug 1282, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown Mar 19 08:14:21 * * will(AT)openmoko.com: Remove rotate display option Mar 19 08:14:22 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1282 Mar 19 08:15:49 so not oly was landscape removed, the actual button press was too.. :/ Mar 19 08:15:58 s/oly/only/ Mar 19 08:15:59 ScaredyCat meant: so not only was landscape removed, the actual button press was too.. :/ Mar 19 08:17:06 isn't that flickering issue gta02 only ? Mar 19 08:17:19 hmm, yeah that isnt the right fix Mar 19 08:17:35 damn straight! Mar 19 08:17:39 change xrandr to use shadow buffer on gta02 same as gta01 is right fix Mar 19 08:18:06 reopen it and fix it would yah... pretty please :) Mar 19 08:18:38 btw, something seems to overwrite the .state files for 01 with state files for 02 in the build process.. Mar 19 08:18:43 I cant fix it, need a Dodji for that Mar 19 08:19:14 Dodji ? Mar 19 08:19:24 gta02 Xserver writer Mar 19 08:19:32 oh..... Mar 19 08:19:35 * Dodji hides Mar 19 08:19:41 oooo Mar 19 08:19:46 hey Dodji dude Mar 19 08:19:46 ah too late Mar 19 08:19:49 what are the estimates on the likelihood of freerunner happening in april? Mar 19 08:19:51 XorA, hey :-) Mar 19 08:20:24 XorA, so finally it was "proven" that it was the glamo at fault, phew Mar 19 08:20:34 * ScaredyCat points Dodji at bug 1282 && XorA's coment above Mar 19 08:20:44 Dodji: thats impression I got from Andy's email Mar 19 08:21:20 what about android? Mar 19 08:21:25 XorA, well, I had that impression long ago, hence the "lower frequency" hack. and olv did have it as well Mar 19 08:21:41 what about it... TaoTeShaun .. it's not Open .. at least yet Mar 19 08:21:42 congrats to openmoko for the soc Mar 19 08:23:37 XorA, re shadow buffer, now I wonder what people will say when they realize it is very very slow Mar 19 08:23:56 Dodji: they are used to it on GTA01 and most Zaurus and Ipaq machines Mar 19 08:24:43 XorA, gta01 does not have the glamo <-> system bandwidth problem ... Mar 19 08:24:47 Dodji: unless you can perform glamo super magic Mar 19 08:25:08 Dodji: f**k I forgot about that Mar 19 08:25:12 XorA, that was the reason why we tried to "accelerate" the rotation in the first place ... Mar 19 08:25:21 Dodji: can you not do a rotation blit on the glamo? Mar 19 08:25:28 superglamomagalisticdojifixitocious! Mar 19 08:25:40 so shadow buffer is the right way, but the copy is a bitblt with rotate Mar 19 08:26:22 XorA, here, blit would mean copy from system ram to glamo ram, right ? Mar 19 08:26:54 Dodji: cant shadow live in glamo ram as well? Mar 19 08:27:09 XorA, probably, I need to look into how that is done Mar 19 08:27:27 * XorA never used shadow buffers in X Mar 19 08:27:43 XorA, but I don't think blits will be enough ... Mar 19 08:28:09 I fear it is required to read pixels one by one to perform the rotation ... Mar 19 08:28:18 read, and write them Mar 19 08:28:21 Dodji: ah well :-( Mar 19 08:28:43 time for an optical landscape adapter :-) Mar 19 08:28:50 :-) Mar 19 08:31:39 so, we have this super chip in the 02, but it does't have the bandwidth to perform its super operations? Mar 19 08:33:50 we are talking about the bandwidth needed to move data from system ram into the chip ... Mar 19 08:34:06 once data are on the chip, it is usually okay-ish. Mar 19 08:41:57 morning Mar 19 08:44:08 openmoko: 03tick * r4221 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/ (setup_at_neo_assassin.script setupenv): Mar 19 08:44:08 openmoko: fixed some tiny bug in setupenv Mar 19 08:44:08 openmoko: and update the current status of assassin stuff Mar 19 08:50:35 morning Mar 19 08:52:30 openmoko: 03tick * r4222 10/developers/tick/Test_env_script_GTA02A5/setup_at_neo_assassin.script: fix a tiny bug Mar 19 10:03:32 what's up with monotone.openmoko.org? Mar 19 10:09:54 hi everybody Mar 19 10:10:29 i wanted to know if any mentor for gsoc is present here Mar 19 10:10:47 there are no contact details on the website Mar 19 10:10:54 ? Mar 19 10:25:55 ashish: ask mickeyl, he is a mentor iirc Mar 19 10:34:58 thomasg: ich krieg das nicht richtig aufgenommen.. macbook pro spinnt total und mein laptop ist zu schlecht, das rauscht Mar 19 10:36:00 thomasg: beim MBP erfindet das interne mikro schrille toene, piepartig.. und die aendern sich je nachdem wie man die sensitivaet einstellt auch in hoehe.. sehr komisch ist das Mar 19 10:37:07 oh, wrong channel :) sry Mar 19 10:41:02 edistar: i agree. my mbp sounds like a jumbojet takeoff as soon as the fans start ;D Mar 19 10:42:52 have you heard a 1U server? Mar 19 10:44:01 "is there an airport nerby or did you boot a server?" Mar 19 10:45:36 * ScaredyCat has that prob with a dell 2u server... the fans kick in full blast until they get a trigger in software.... which of course requires a supported kernel version... :/ Mar 19 10:46:26 ScaredyCat: maybe some bios option? cause my poweredge blasts only for the first 3 seconds Mar 19 10:47:44 mmm.. it's a 2650 ... I didn't see anything in the bios ... but I didn;t look too hard in there... Mar 19 10:47:59 hi all Mar 19 10:48:02 thos, ping Mar 19 10:50:00 anyone mentor for gsoc Mar 19 10:52:09 ashish: mickeyl :) Mar 19 10:52:40 look for mickeyl|bossa to logon for mickey, he is at bossa conference Mar 19 10:54:27 ok thanks Mar 19 10:54:36 everyone asking for SoC Mar 19 10:54:48 today it's a really good day Mar 19 10:55:08 the Openmoko mailing list updates are good!! PVT!! :) Mar 19 10:56:02 Waaaaah, might be out in April! :-( Why why why, everytime I check it's delayed. :-( Mar 19 10:56:24 Daemonax: it's been end april for ages now.. :) Mar 19 10:57:25 Oh well there may be some hope then. :-) Mar 19 10:57:42 Though, I'll be in China then, earning much less. :-\ Hmm, I'll check review and see if it'll be worth it. Mar 19 10:58:35 maybe the last delay is the last :) Mar 19 11:03:07 thos: contacts look good now :D Mar 19 11:04:19 openmoko: 03werner * r4223 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in: Mar 19 11:04:19 openmoko: environment.in (SD_KERNEL): changed default kernel name for SD booting from Mar 19 11:04:19 openmoko: "uImage" to "uImage.bin", mimicking naming convention on buildhost Mar 19 11:24:10 hrmm... Mar 19 11:24:32 how do I get the neo contacts db imported on my lappy... Mar 19 11:39:48 ScaredyCat: copy the eds files to your eds directory on laptop Mar 19 11:40:53 where are they located? Mar 19 11:41:17 ~.evolution? Mar 19 11:41:19 i think Mar 19 11:41:48 ~.evolution/addressbook/local/system/addressbook.db Mar 19 11:42:12 ok, I tried that. It just seemed to ignore it Mar 19 11:42:40 get openstink working :-) Mar 19 11:43:34 lol Mar 19 13:24:20 thos, reminder: include qvga icon theme into standard theme ;) Mar 19 13:38:05 dcordes: you should be able to install from my repo Mar 19 13:38:25 ScaredyCat, it's about creating teh image Mar 19 13:39:22 I already installed it from angstrom repo for experimental purpose but I'd like to make worqing qvga image. also thos idea to get rid of the qvga packages is pretty good imho Mar 19 13:48:07 Some questions about Freerunner and Openmoko: calling somebody, incoming calls (with sound/vibration alert), send/receive sms already works? Mar 19 13:49:15 yes Mar 19 13:49:34 well - there are assorted breakages with different builds over time. Mar 19 13:49:36 But largely. Mar 19 13:49:44 And freerunner is not yet available. Mar 19 13:49:53 Unless you sleep with the right person. Mar 19 13:49:58 and standbytime is more than one day? ^^ Mar 19 13:50:08 SpeedEvil: i would try =) Mar 19 13:50:08 HdR: standby or sleep? ;) Mar 19 13:50:16 off without the battery in? Mar 19 13:50:21 HdR: it's not a consumer device - PM doesn't need to be working right just yet Mar 19 13:51:06 nezza-_-: standby, so somebody can call me Mar 19 13:51:26 Standby time is hard to do. Mar 19 13:51:28 yes Mar 19 13:51:33 its very difficult Mar 19 13:51:37 In principle it should be >1week Mar 19 13:51:57 This is with the thing in suspend to RAM with GSM on, with wake-on-ring Mar 19 13:52:31 A year or so should be possible with suspend-disk, with wake on timer every day polling for messages. Mar 19 13:52:42 But this isn't really a useful mode for most. Mar 19 13:52:50 =) Mar 19 13:54:18 well i want to buy the freerunner, but at least i want be able to phone and send/receive SMS, so i don't need to have 2 phones ;) Mar 19 13:54:46 The current images - some of them - for the GTA01 do that. Mar 19 13:55:03 HdR, I use the Neo as my primary phone. Lack of battery is a MUCH bigger issue than I anticipated it would be BUT it's still functional as a phone and to send text messages. :) Mar 19 13:55:07 There are occasional builds that don't - but that's less of an issue. Mar 19 13:55:13 Plus a basic media player. :) Mar 19 13:55:17 Most of the time. :) Mar 19 13:55:32 kdean06: ah right, i forget the media player ^^ Mar 19 13:55:36 10 print "TheRing.mpg" Mar 19 13:55:49 20 goto 10 Mar 19 13:56:18 ScaredyCat: that's advanced unsupported playlist features though. Mar 19 13:56:25 Not funny. :P Mar 19 13:56:58 ymmd ^^ basic media player *laughing* Mar 19 13:57:43 well thanks for your answers ;) Mar 19 14:05:51 kdean06: plus intarweb? Mar 19 14:06:02 Sorry, huh? Mar 19 14:06:17 HdR, I use the Neo as my primary phone[...] Mar 19 14:06:33 Oh. No, I don't use the internet on it. Mar 19 14:06:51 It's not set up by default and I have no pressing need to do it. Though... The urge has been flaring. :P Mar 19 14:06:56 So I might try that today and see. :) Mar 19 14:07:09 I'm wondering if media player can stream... Mar 19 14:08:55 * ScaredyCat points at mplayer or mpg123 Mar 19 14:13:47 anyone use the make qemu in ubuntu? Mar 19 14:14:07 mines getting a qemu: fatl: trying to execute code oustide RAM or ROM at 0x00000000 Mar 19 14:14:35 followed by register dump and openmoko/flash.sh: line 91: 9253 Aborted Mar 19 14:14:45 kbingham: the latest images have been doing that Mar 19 14:15:06 is it easy to roll back ? Mar 19 14:16:47 SpeedEvil: It looks as if you're saying above that there are images that do SMS, phone, and suspend with wake on ring properly Mar 19 14:17:00 If you know what image that is, I would love to hear it :-) Mar 19 14:17:27 HdR: On the Neo 1973, the battery life is 4-6 hours, 7 at the very max with almost no usage, if you're lucky. Mar 19 14:17:50 There have been reports that some daily images supported suspend with wake on ring - those had a battery life of >20 hours Mar 19 14:18:20 But based purely on what I've read on the mailing lists re: FreeRunner, suspend & wake on ring appear to already be working on it Mar 19 14:18:24 wurp2: any idea, if it's the same with freerunner? Mar 19 14:18:49 But based purely on what I've read on the mailing lists re: FreeRunner, suspend & wake on ring appear to already be working on the mailing lists, not any personal experience Mar 19 14:19:20 i pressed return, before i finished reading ;) Mar 19 14:19:45 And like SpeedEvil says, all evidence points to suspend life > 1 week (9 days or more) on the FreeRunner, once power mgmt is all working properly Mar 19 14:19:51 but who knows when that would be :-) Mar 19 14:20:33 with standbylife of about 3 dasy i would be happy ;) Mar 19 14:20:38 oops, and apparently I cursored up and typed my next message at the end of my prior one; sorry for the repeat Mar 19 14:22:44 wurp2: no problem ;) Mar 19 14:32:15 I have in one case gotten an active battery life of around 500h from the neo. However, this was running it from a car battery. Mar 19 14:32:38 haha Mar 19 14:32:56 SpeedEvil, perhaps we should suggest this to OpenMoko as an optional accessory :) Mar 19 14:32:58 * SpeedEvil ponders supplying backpack power units. Mar 19 14:33:09 It's a power supply and a workout in one! Mar 19 14:33:28 win! Mar 19 14:34:15 Though speaking practically, you'd probably want a teeny generator that could be foot-pedaled in 5 mins to charge a lithium cell at high rate. Mar 19 14:34:34 foot-pedal? it's all about the crank. Mar 19 14:35:03 I think foot pedal is easier Mar 19 14:35:11 you have to hold the other end of the crank somehow Mar 19 14:35:31 The point of the foot pedal would be to put in serious amounts of power very quickly. Mar 19 14:35:53 For example, one A123 cell (2.2Ah 3.3V) can be charged at 70W Mar 19 14:36:10 So you'd charge it for 5 mins, then have 10h of power Mar 19 14:36:15 Or whatever Mar 19 14:38:43 hi thos Mar 19 14:41:59 hi Mar 19 14:42:21 dcordes, ah yes, 22x22 icons Mar 19 14:47:34 thos, yep Mar 19 15:00:35 openmoko: 03thomas * r4224 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/moko-history.c): Mar 19 15:00:35 openmoko: 2008-03-19 Thomas Wood Mar 19 15:00:35 openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-history.c: Add a "Save" button to the call log window Mar 19 15:00:54 dfu-util is now in usr/bin/? Then mokomakefile needs a refresh ;-) Mar 19 15:04:50 * ScaredyCat mutters at the "FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??" Mar 19 15:05:26 I'd be happy if the community could fecking learn to reply to the thread and not keep starting new messages... Mar 19 15:05:32 bunch o useless mofos Mar 19 15:06:14 ScaredyCat, give up hope now :-P Mar 19 15:06:21 :) Mar 19 15:06:40 dcordes, did I see a bug about openmoko qvga icon theme? Mar 19 15:06:41 your save button just got in then :) ^^ Mar 19 15:07:15 well er Mar 19 15:07:17 I committed it Mar 19 15:07:35 but all it does is bring up a dialog right now Mar 19 15:07:45 I need to figure out how to actually implement "add to contact" Mar 19 15:07:58 wtf! Mar 19 15:08:07 plus I was going to do this icon thing for dcordes, so wanted to get it out the way Mar 19 15:08:10 plus I was going to do this icon thing for dcordes, so wanted to get it out the way Mar 19 15:08:22 echo echo echo Mar 19 15:08:29 stupid scroll Mar 19 15:08:33 :) Mar 19 15:08:43 ScaredyCat, you're obviously not a programmer :-P Mar 19 15:09:05 unfortantly technology hasn't got to "think and make it happen" stage yet Mar 19 15:09:08 thos: You can add to contact via dbus by sending a VCARD formatted message Mar 19 15:09:20 s/d to /d a / Mar 19 15:09:20 wurp2 meant: thos: You can add a contact via dbus by sending a VCARD formatted message Mar 19 15:09:31 no I've never done any programming, ever thos... Mar 19 15:09:39 wurp2, what interface Mar 19 15:09:45 lemme look Mar 19 15:09:46 thos, http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1280 Mar 19 15:09:46 wurp2, and that's not actually what I need to do Mar 19 15:09:53 I put it all out on the dbus api page on the wiki Mar 19 15:10:02 heh, in that case maybe I needn't go look ;-) Mar 19 15:10:05 wurp2, I need to add a phone number to an existing contact Mar 19 15:10:17 thos: I'm sure you can do that too... Mar 19 15:10:18 wurp2, or, I need to create a new contact with a phone number Mar 19 15:10:27 wurp2, dig out this wiki page :-) Mar 19 15:10:29 lemme look Mar 19 15:10:47 does openmoko save contacts to SIM, or flash? afaik, SIM storage can't do multiple numbers per contact Mar 19 15:10:56 that, or maybe my phone is just terrible Mar 19 15:11:07 it copies from the sim Mar 19 15:11:08 thos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dbus_device_API Mar 19 15:11:28 but updates it if you change one that came from there (apparently) Mar 19 15:11:29 Qwell: I think you're right. OM saves contacts in evolution format Mar 19 15:11:55 Any functionality for reading contacts from SIM into OM contacts is new, I believe Mar 19 15:12:11 I hope, anyway, since I wrote a script to do that for me a couple of weeks ago Mar 19 15:12:15 new is a reltive term. Mar 19 15:12:18 relative Mar 19 15:12:25