**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 27 02:59:57 2008 Mar 27 03:04:54 I was looking into the SoC ideas, and I'm pretty interested in porting to EZX Mar 27 03:05:05 how much work does this entail? Mar 27 03:05:25 I have access to a MING and a ROKR E6 Mar 27 03:10:17 do you have kernel drivers for all the peripherals on the phone? Mar 27 03:11:18 currently, I've only messed with the firmware images from communities like motofans, etc Mar 27 03:11:21 so ....no Mar 27 03:11:45 Are those images running linux? Mar 27 03:11:47 but I've heard of some people that have gotten some openembedded running on their phones Mar 27 03:11:50 yes Mar 27 03:11:55 Montavista linux Mar 27 03:12:03 what size display? Mar 27 03:12:13 the issue, which I've been tracking rather closely...is that Motorola has not released the source for their kernel Mar 27 03:13:00 you don't actually need kernel source Mar 27 03:13:13 MING is 240x320 Mar 27 03:13:17 As long as everything works Mar 27 03:13:26 ROKR is same Mar 27 03:13:30 you can use an existing kernel. Mar 27 03:13:50 yes...the MING and the E6 both have fully functional Linux installed Mar 27 03:14:26 yeah...I figured I could wipe out much of the moto interface and install openmoko libs, etc Mar 27 03:14:35 but...I haven't looked into it much Mar 27 03:15:23 SpeedEvil, are you a core dev? I'd be very interested in doing a SoC project on this Mar 27 03:15:28 it was one of the ideas listed Mar 27 03:15:30 As I understand, basically, yes. Mar 27 03:15:33 And no. Mar 27 03:15:41 ic Mar 27 03:15:43 It's quiet around this time Mar 27 03:15:50 more active 5 hours ago Mar 27 03:15:51 where are most the devs located? Mar 27 03:15:57 Europe? Mar 27 03:16:12 US/EU mainly Mar 27 03:16:18 k Mar 27 03:16:30 It's too early for EU to wake up and most of US has gone to bed. Mar 27 03:16:37 right Mar 27 03:18:51 * XorA is awake Mar 27 03:26:02 most of use has gone to bed? what US are you in? Mar 27 03:26:08 (or not in) Mar 27 03:26:13 s/use/us/ Mar 27 03:45:31 <--Cincinnati Mar 27 03:45:47 Wed Mar 26 23:45:49 EDT 2008 Mar 27 03:46:58 openmoko is like a reg cellphone right? i can just plop in my current sim card and get on the network? i think Mar 27 03:47:32 ideally, yes Mar 27 03:47:41 I don't know how functional the software is Mar 27 03:47:52 gawd i cant wait to buy a freerunner Mar 27 03:48:30 wifi! Mar 27 03:48:34 jimiridge: basically - as far as a cellphone - it's similar to the absolute most basic cellphone you can buy 10 years ago at the moment. Mar 27 03:48:34 GPS! Mar 27 03:48:39 when FreeRunner is available, I still dont' know the level of teh software Mar 27 03:48:42 The software is simply no there. Mar 27 03:48:49 not Mar 27 03:49:24 At teh moment it's a slow linux laptop, and a bad phone in the same case. Mar 27 03:49:33 heh Mar 27 03:49:37 The software is getting better. Mar 27 03:49:41 i dont care i still want it Mar 27 03:49:45 But not hugely fast. Mar 27 03:49:52 :) Mar 27 03:49:56 when the mentors pick my SoC project, it'll hopefully be better Mar 27 03:50:06 what's this project? Mar 27 03:50:18 what window manager does it use? Mar 27 03:50:20 odeviced Mar 27 03:50:44 jimiridge: matchbox - hacked Mar 27 03:50:52 cool Mar 27 03:50:56 SpeedEvil: http://cda.morris.umn.edu/~theba004 <- it's linked there if you want Mar 27 03:51:07 The ipkg? Mar 27 03:51:09 :) Mar 27 03:51:40 no, sorry, my application Mar 27 03:52:06 ipkg is the way that OM deals with installing stuff. Mar 27 03:52:34 SpeedEvil: I know that :) I'm linking you to my application for SoC, if you care Mar 27 03:52:40 there is no odeviced currently Mar 27 03:53:22 doesnt the neo have like a 250mhz cpu? Mar 27 03:53:28 jimiridge: yes Mar 27 03:53:33 that is a bit slow Mar 27 03:53:42 jimiridge: it's really not. Mar 27 03:54:05 especially when dealing with a user interface Mar 27 03:54:09 jimiridge: As a laptop - only maybe 8 or 9 years ago, that'd be pretty much cutting edge. Mar 27 03:54:45 yeah i have a 233mhz cpu right next to me Mar 27 03:54:50 freerunner will have a 400MHz Mar 27 03:55:17 anyone around that would care to help me set up qemu? Mar 27 03:55:48 summatusmentis: the problem is the balance between hiding irrelevant quirks, and being unable to use quirky features. Mar 27 03:55:54 it's also arm, not x86, which is worth something too, right? Mar 27 03:56:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Mar 27 03:56:08 I'm following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU and everything is going smoothly until I run openmoko/download.sh and then I get "Kernel is... not found" Mar 27 03:56:10 doc|home: not in a good way though. Mar 27 03:56:20 oh Mar 27 03:56:23 really? I thought it would? Mar 27 03:56:27 jimiridge, :) Mar 27 03:56:34 er, or is arm ~= risc? Mar 27 03:56:38 arm i'd think would be crappier then an x86 Mar 27 03:56:39 doc|home: arm is slower than x86 typically. Mar 27 03:56:46 SpeedEvil: yes, I could see how that would be the case, but at the same time, that may partially be up to the developer of the modules Mar 27 03:56:48 RISC Mar 27 03:56:51 doc|home: risc was great - for a couple of years. Mar 27 03:57:00 SpeedEvil: I'm sure it still is ;) Mar 27 03:57:03 doc|home: but then what happened was that RAM access time stalled. Mar 27 03:57:21 doc|home: Ram in 1980 had an access time of around 200ns. Mar 27 03:57:56 doc|home: it's now only about ten times faster now. Mar 27 03:58:09 doc|home: in terms of random access - streaming is enormously faster. Mar 27 03:58:28 shame Mar 27 03:58:58 The problem that hit was that CISC got into pipelining in a big way. Mar 27 03:59:25 And RISC can't pipeline in the same manner, as the instructionns are simpler, so you get less of them in a pipeline. Mar 27 03:59:29 (sort-of) Mar 27 03:59:33 * doc|home nods Mar 27 03:59:36 As a ballpark. Mar 27 03:59:39 didn't work so well for the p4 ;) Mar 27 03:59:55 The ARM in the neo at 266MHz is a bit faster than a Pentium 100. Mar 27 04:00:00 ouch Mar 27 04:00:05 For some apps. Mar 27 04:00:13 that's pretty lame Mar 27 04:00:17 In some ways it's lots faster. Mar 27 04:00:39 But it has a very small cache, which kills performance, and no floating point. Mar 27 04:00:57 I have a nokia n800, throttles up to 400mhz, painful for web browsing at times :/ Mar 27 04:01:15 partially the browser being crap of course Mar 27 04:01:20 i'm just in love with the moko i've stayed up nights reading everything there is about the whole project Mar 27 04:01:39 I was using a browser quite snappily on a 486/75 Mar 27 04:01:49 i need to get a job so i can buy one Mar 27 04:01:52 SpeedEvil: yeah, but not a mozilla based one ;) Mar 27 04:02:01 doc|home: netscape 3 ? Mar 27 04:02:07 doc|home: my 120Mhz ARM phone browses fine Mar 27 04:02:29 i have a crappy old 486dx compaq laptop from long ago only has 500mb drive Mar 27 04:02:34 even with opera8 and loading graphics and such ... except for the whole 6M of RAM is ... not much Mar 27 04:02:46 right now its running netbsd but i havent booted it in awhile Mar 27 04:03:08 no space for X11 :( Mar 27 04:03:12 SpeedEvil: wasn't that the best time of netscape? :/ Mar 27 04:03:40 unknown_lamer: yeah, opera is significantly faster than gecko :/ Mar 27 04:04:42 thats whats on my friends... whats it called archos Mar 27 04:04:58 doc|home: gecko! I thought the N800 would be using webkit? Mar 27 04:05:08 heh what a douche he paid extra for plugins and codecs to play all his pirated content Mar 27 04:05:29 also i believe its a linux device not exactly open though Mar 27 04:05:37 unknown_lamer: no, they were using opera, then they switched to gecko Mar 27 04:05:58 jimiridge: yeah, those archos machines nickle and dime you Mar 27 04:06:11 not if you hack into it Mar 27 04:06:17 meh Mar 27 04:06:39 i'm sure if i had one it'd be running my version of linux before you know it Mar 27 04:07:02 this kid was just more into instant gratification if you know what i mean Mar 27 04:07:03 I think they're supposed to be pretty easily hackable Mar 27 04:07:45 not the one he has, suppoesedly there was a samba exploit but as soon as he got it he paid etc and it all got updated Mar 27 04:08:05 so chances are the factory exploit is no more Mar 27 04:08:37 still could prolly mount the drive and dick with it that way Mar 27 04:08:38 doc|home: ewwww Mar 27 04:09:22 unknown_lamer: yep, nothing much to do though unless someone comes up with an alternative :/ Mar 27 04:12:11 ? Mar 27 04:12:34 ls Mar 27 04:12:44 I/O error Mar 27 04:12:46 NOT A TERMINAL!!!! Mar 27 04:13:35 :P Mar 27 04:13:51 tilda is a bit glitchy Mar 27 04:14:42 doesnt grab the cursor when i initiate it i have to press F1 the terminal pops up but i have to mouse click it Mar 27 04:20:28 trying to set up QEMU: when running openmoko/flash.sh I get bazillions of "s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20" messages. Any ideas? Mar 27 04:23:42 using neo or freerunner? Mar 27 04:25:29 ah, there's the problem Mar 27 04:25:42 I had some of the env options for 02 some for 01 Mar 27 05:17:34 openmoko: 03werner * r4258 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta01-jbt6k74.patch gta02-core.patch): (log message trimmed) Mar 27 05:17:34 openmoko: fix-lcm-flicker.patch Mar 27 05:17:34 openmoko: Resolve LCM flicker issue at source by modifying LCM register Mar 27 05:17:34 openmoko: to not swap Red / Blue data strobe timing on alternate frames only. Mar 27 05:17:34 openmoko: Select instead mode 4 which swaps on alternate lines and frames, so Mar 27 05:17:38 openmoko: we take advantage of EMI reduction but do not see the flicker. Mar 27 05:17:40 openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green Mar 27 05:23:55 hello moko Mar 27 05:26:53 get out Mar 27 05:28:35 anyone going to LugRadio Live? Mar 27 05:48:17 XorA: so MACHINE = 'om-gta01' in mokomakefile now? Mar 27 05:48:33 rwhitby: not yet, only just finished fixing mtn Mar 27 05:48:42 * XorA goes to try and play with projects :-) Mar 27 05:48:50 XorA: wanna test your access by making that change? Mar 27 05:48:58 yes Mar 27 05:49:02 excellent. Mar 27 05:49:52 oh, it only supports pubkey login? Mar 27 05:55:20 Ill have to wait an hour now Mar 27 06:05:04 openmoko: 03xora * r15 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Update Makefile for changes to machine names in OM repo Mar 27 06:09:14 join &2 Mar 27 06:09:44 j Mar 27 06:29:36 ugh Mar 27 06:30:21 why did i just spend like two hours helping someone with a linux problem, a complete noob too Mar 27 06:30:45 are you currently logged in on a bash shell? Mar 27 06:30:49 whats bash? Mar 27 06:30:56 whats a shell? Mar 27 06:31:15 OMFG maybe they should be back on winblows Mar 27 06:32:31 i honestly need to get some certifications so i can get paid to do this shit Mar 27 06:33:42 plan on taking the A+ exam sooner or later and possibly persue a mysql/php/LPIC i bet i could ace the linux+ aswell Mar 27 06:34:06 sorta refuse to do any MS certs Mar 27 06:34:17 fuck them! Mar 27 06:34:25 jadams, well at least xfce is super fast on my gta01! :-D Mar 27 06:34:59 josch: hows your debian going? Mar 27 06:34:59 heh you got xfce running on the neo Mar 27 06:35:13 thats tight Mar 27 06:35:35 wonder why matchbox isnt as responsive? Mar 27 06:35:54 too manny applets? Mar 27 06:36:14 XorA, have any suggestions what to do next? it seems very complete right now Mar 27 06:36:36 josch: well making it repeatable and uploading a HOWTO would be great :-) Mar 27 06:36:39 jimiridge, not only xfce but a full debian Mar 27 06:36:57 XorA, maybe you have overseen this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Mar 27 06:37:06 hah Mar 27 06:37:06 josch: then a debian installer support :_) Mar 27 06:37:17 is it done yet XorA ? Mar 27 06:37:26 wow Mar 27 06:38:11 josch: schweeeeet!!!!! Mar 27 06:38:20 :-) Mar 27 06:39:03 is it faster then the openmoko "distro" Mar 27 06:39:03 * XorA nominates josch for hack of the month award Mar 27 06:39:43 jimiridge, hrm... hard to say... it theoretically shouldnt be any faster because it is gtk too Mar 27 06:39:44 hmm, where is my GTA01bv3 Mar 27 06:39:54 oh, 1000's of miles away :-( Mar 27 06:40:14 the default gtk theme renders faster than the OM theme Mar 27 06:40:26 hrm true Mar 27 06:40:54 it's not superfast like on dektop but I would say it's fast enough to work well with Mar 27 06:41:13 i would make a video but i dont have a cam good enough Mar 27 06:41:16 * ScaredyCat pokes XorA Mar 27 06:41:19 josch: how much effort was it to get xfce running? Mar 27 06:41:26 ScaredyCat: wazzup Mar 27 06:41:36 is it done yet ? Mar 27 06:41:47 what done? Mar 27 06:41:55 jadams, hrm... the main problem was xorg and the touchscreen - after having this xfce was only an apt-get away ^^ Mar 27 06:42:02 the switch from fic to om Mar 27 06:42:08 should be Mar 27 06:44:11 k, and it's a full rebuld needed now.. too right Mar 27 06:45:40 * mwester just finished yesterday's build, then deleted tmp and started anew. Mar 27 06:46:01 I'm expecting a thank-you card from our local electric company. Mar 27 06:46:10 :D Mar 27 06:46:11 hmm, I just shut down the OM monotone server, the database file is fucked somewhere, I need a few minutes to transfer an ok one Mar 27 06:46:29 That's not supposed to happen. :( Mar 27 06:47:39 ! Mar 27 06:48:19 mwester: I think I accidently truncated it, so its not a mtn fault Mar 27 06:48:46 josch: Cool! Mar 27 06:49:27 Hey I'm trying to setup the Qemu emulation environment on Ubunty 7.10. After I run 'make qemu' I get an "Kernel is... not found make: *** [download-images] Error 255" message. See http://pastebin.com/m1902c793 Mar 27 06:51:17 whoah beer volcanoe! Mar 27 06:51:27 hate when i spill a beer for a sec Mar 27 06:54:49 ScaredyCat: What command to update to the latest build? make update-mtn setup-openembedded all? :) Mar 27 07:00:17 Should just redownloading mmf and then hitting the big red button work? Mar 27 07:00:43 in about 5 minutes it should Mar 27 07:00:50 I would hold your horses now though Mar 27 07:01:47 * SpeedEvil restrains horses. Mar 27 07:04:45 CM: I'd wait a sec Mar 27 07:05:37 :( Mar 27 07:05:51 * CM needs to go to work where there's no ssh Mar 27 07:05:53 2:39 Mar 27 07:05:56 Damn bank firewalls.. Mar 27 07:06:46 cool, dash express made engadget Mar 27 07:06:55 twice in fact Mar 27 07:06:58 heh Mar 27 07:07:04 Link? Mar 27 07:07:05 i got a shell if you want an account Mar 27 07:07:10 http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/26/dash-express-unboxing-and-hands-on/#comments Mar 27 07:07:16 scroll up Mar 27 07:07:32 you'll need putty unless i can find a php ssh client Mar 27 07:07:36 Thanks Mar 27 07:07:58 ~blam XorA Mar 27 07:07:59 * apt blams findlay and XorA in the head with a blam-o-tron Mar 27 07:08:05 ~blame XorA Mar 27 07:08:06 * apt blames XorA (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Mar 27 07:08:38 you saying the bank firewall blocks outgoing ssh or their are no linux computers Mar 27 07:09:19 doc|home: Heh, wonder what the Geek Scren is for :) Mar 27 07:09:48 cm geek screen? Mar 27 07:09:59 Top option on page 19 Mar 27 07:10:05 Image 19 I mean Mar 27 07:10:25 hah, cool Mar 27 07:10:46 Console and on screen keyboard would be fun ;) Mar 27 07:10:52 hehe Mar 27 07:11:44 * doc|home wants a phone damn it! Mar 27 07:11:46 seems to be fixed now Mar 27 07:11:55 * XorA makes the GO GO GO shouts Mar 27 07:13:41 * SpeedEvil make setups Mar 27 07:14:45 * ScaredyCat starts go-go ing Mar 27 07:21:50 Argh. Mar 27 07:22:22 I just realised I bleww away my nice patches to MMF that supported --limit-rate for all the wgets Mar 27 07:39:16 morning Mar 27 07:54:22 pfff limit rating is for pussies Mar 27 07:54:50 :o new moko vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Mar 27 07:58:17 * rwhitby notes that XorA is now qualified for MokoMakefile maintenance :-) Mar 27 07:58:29 heh heh Mar 27 07:58:54 rwhitby: I shall move MokoMakefile to inside OE then recurse Mar 27 07:59:02 the only trouble is that I have to run "make update-makefile" for the very first time ever! Mar 27 07:59:16 * XorA hopes it doesnt brake Mar 27 07:59:35 (well, "svn up" rather than "make update-makefile" ...) Mar 27 08:08:08 good morning Mar 27 08:13:53 Hopscotch, good morning Mar 27 08:20:51 jimiridge, hey, I just ran openmoko again to compare both and this are my findings about speed: when I start a new app, then most of them (like console, mousepad, the settings dialoges etc) start actually faster then apps like contacts, phone etc. so in openmoko. I did not time the startup speed as it is visibly faster in xfce. also something very interesting: when you change tabs in openmoko apps like the phone it takes some seconds to load t Mar 27 08:20:51 he new tab. if I switch tabs in the xfce gui with tons of buttons and checkboxes it's much faster - I dont know why and maybe it's just me or somthing ^^ would be great if others could confirm this as I cannot explain this behaviour Mar 27 08:21:41 maybe it's all about the gtk theming Mar 27 08:56:11 hi Mar 27 09:01:17 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4259 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c): openmoko-messages2: fix sms composer name problem if Contacts exists Mar 27 09:36:48 omfg xfce window compositing effects with shadows and transparency also work!! Mar 27 09:37:19 heh Mar 27 09:37:39 like compiz shit? Mar 27 09:38:45 not wobbly windows and no cube (this would be overkill for sure) but transparency and shadows work quite well Mar 27 09:39:48 josch, in the neo? Mar 27 09:39:59 y0 Mar 27 09:40:18 but i thought that requires hardware accel Mar 27 09:41:33 the xfce effects are done in software Mar 27 09:43:37 i tried composite effects in e17, when done in software it's not usable at all Mar 27 09:47:13 i dont know what you enabled but everything I mentioned works quite fine on my neo with xfce. I even can move around a half transparent window at a good framerate Mar 27 09:49:05 i still need to setup a build env Mar 27 09:50:56 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4260 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): moko-sms.c : display the status report icon Mar 27 10:08:50 what applications from the built images are usable with gps? or are there any installs to be done to be able to use GPS? Mar 27 10:10:50 hi folks Mar 27 10:10:58 anyone know whats up with monotone.openembedded.org today? Mar 27 10:14:22 same old same old.. Mar 27 10:14:35 have you rm -rf 'd yout tmp ... Mar 27 10:14:56 fic-gta0* became om-gta0* Mar 27 10:15:09 so you need to rebuild.. after update Mar 27 10:16:28 oh Mar 27 10:16:35 Please set a valid MACHINE in your local.conf Mar 27 10:16:57 yes Mar 27 10:17:01 om-gta01 Mar 27 10:17:04 that was a significant thing to change Mar 27 10:17:23 ~blame Sean Mar 27 10:17:24 * apt blames Sean (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Mar 27 10:17:47 see anything else i need to change? Mar 27 10:17:50 http://rafb.net/p/fcTi2P85.html Mar 27 10:20:30 that'd be funny to include bluebox tones on the dialer Mar 27 10:20:53 maybe a hidden button that reveals em Mar 27 10:22:46 ScaredyCat, same here as well; rebuild == "make update-makefile && make setup update openmoko-devel-image" ? Mar 27 10:23:17 nice article: Mar 27 10:23:17 http://gigaom.com/2008/03/26/what-makes-a-good-mobile-application-great/ Mar 27 10:23:29 mbuf: edit local.conf too, remember .. Mar 27 10:23:45 jimiridge: a 2600/2400 ringtone :-) Mar 27 10:24:00 yes Mar 27 10:24:32 torpor, ok Mar 27 10:28:58 you only need to change the machine torpor... Mar 27 10:29:00 * * OM Bug 1309 has been created by mdt(AT)emdete.de Mar 27 10:29:01 * * gprs dialin responses "ERROR" Mar 27 10:29:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1309 Mar 27 10:29:11 ScaredyCat: okay thanks, building now .. Mar 27 10:29:14 mbuf: rm -rf your build/tmp dir Mar 27 10:29:29 ScaredyCat, ok Mar 27 10:29:29 before building Mar 27 10:30:38 ScaredyCat, thanks Mar 27 10:30:47 np Mar 27 10:31:17 I'm only a few hours ahead of you (in build terms) Mar 27 10:31:31 so I should hit any issues first... Mar 27 10:31:35 ScaredyCat, :) Mar 27 10:31:38 then I can bash XorA Mar 27 10:31:58 has someone testet gprs with Moko>1 ? Mar 27 10:32:06 nope Im finished for the day Mar 27 10:32:37 * ScaredyCat searches for XorA's mobile numbers... Mar 27 10:33:47 XorA: did anything get posted to the lists to notify people of what was going on? Mar 27 10:34:05 yes Mar 27 10:34:16 distro-devel where distro development gets discussed Mar 27 10:34:30 GTA01 Machine Config Renamed Mar 27 10:35:28 omFG AAHHHH Mar 27 10:35:42 ScaredyCat, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/distro-devel/2008-March/000300.html Mar 27 10:36:22 k Mar 27 10:36:53 ScaredyCat, there is no TARGET_ARCH in your local.conf? Mar 27 10:39:24 ScaredyCat, http://rafb.net/p/0buzG045.html Mar 27 10:39:34 no Mar 27 10:40:41 don't need it.. Mar 27 10:40:46 ScaredyCat, ok Mar 27 10:41:20 jitender, did you add TARGET_ARCH yourself, or was it there by default? Mar 27 10:43:36 anyone know a way of controlling the speed of cat or dd? Mar 27 10:43:52 mieow Mar 27 10:43:58 mbuf i added as i reffered on net i will check url and let you know Mar 27 10:44:28 jitender, ok Mar 27 10:44:30 afaik the machine defines the target type and you're just overriding it with what it is already Mar 27 10:45:09 yes Mar 27 10:45:28 no need to TARGET_ARCH or BUILD_ARCH or any other funny variables people seem to love to set Mar 27 10:46:33 ok Mar 27 10:46:36 did you see andy selby's response to your message XorA Mar 27 10:46:53 ScaredyCat: ive had no mails Mar 27 10:46:54 since error was regarding MACHINE and TARGET_ARCH i added latter one http://fr.pastebin.ca/raw/913932 Mar 27 10:47:06 mbuf since error was regarding MACHINE and TARGET_ARCH i added latter one http://fr.pastebin.ca/raw/913932 Mar 27 10:47:15 "don't fic make the phones and om the software" Mar 27 10:47:29 ScaredyCat: oh that ways days ago Mar 27 10:47:34 I think he was schooled Mar 27 10:47:48 Date: Mar 27 10:47:48 Today 09:43:19 Mar 27 10:53:30 ScaredyCat: I have received no mail from anyone called Andy Selby Mar 27 10:53:41 jitender, ok Mar 27 10:54:17 community list Mar 27 10:54:26 oh, I dont subscribe there Mar 27 10:55:03 he requires schooled then Mar 27 10:56:21 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014414.html Mar 27 10:56:45 ScaredyCat: yeah I looked it up Mar 27 10:56:54 Ill get that email tomorrow when the archives sync Mar 27 10:57:48 * ScaredyCat cleans up dog vomit.. Mar 27 11:35:04 hi there Mar 27 12:13:51 hi bedboi Mar 27 12:13:58 hey florian Mar 27 12:16:11 hi bedboi, florian Mar 27 12:20:47 hrm... can somebody help me with a gdm/xorg problem with debian on neo? Mar 27 12:21:10 if I boot debian on my neo gdm, xorg and xfce start up fine Mar 27 12:21:19 then I do /etc/init.d/gdm stop Mar 27 12:21:27 and then /etc/init.d/gdm start Mar 27 12:21:33 but it doesn't start Mar 27 12:21:55 the reason is and xorg error Mar 27 12:22:09 xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 255 (No such file or directory) Mar 27 12:22:18 this also occurs when I do startx Mar 27 12:22:36 I can only start x manually if I specify a vt manually via startx -- vt1 Mar 27 12:22:39 but: Mar 27 12:23:06 why does xorg start on boot correctly in vt1 and when I stop/start gdm it wont work? Mar 27 13:09:16 hi all Mar 27 14:06:57 Sup3rkiddo: I submitted my application to OM for odeviced last night, FYI Mar 27 14:07:25 summatusmentis, hi, great..:D, me too...did it a couple of hours ago Mar 27 14:07:48 for odeviced? well, good luck to you, I suppose Mar 27 14:08:14 sorry, that came out bitter Mar 27 14:08:16 yep, odeviced... Mar 27 14:08:22 summatusmentis, bitter? Mar 27 14:08:44 for odeviced? well, good luck to you, I suppose Mar 27 14:08:54 it came out meaner than I meant it Mar 27 14:09:06 no, I wish you the best of luck, OM needs an odeviced Mar 27 14:09:38 lol..yeah.. Mar 27 14:09:52 OM needs a solid software plan Mar 27 14:10:05 well, maybe that too, but that's not a GSoC project Mar 27 14:10:33 summatusmentis, you too...if all goes well, both of could work on the same code :P Mar 27 14:11:00 Sup3rkiddo: I feel like your application is probably stronger, you're more familiar w/ OM code. If Mickeyl can figure out a way to split the project, we most definitely could Mar 27 14:11:23 summatusmentis, yep....it would be fun Mar 27 14:11:58 yeah it would. :-D Here's hoping Mar 27 14:14:30 mickey|zzZZzz: when you're around, check your email. I'l work on brainstorming ways the odeviced project could be split into two Mar 27 14:16:26 is he back from his lunch :P Mar 27 14:17:49 he's apparently back from dinner, and is now in never-ending sleep mode Mar 27 15:01:16 * ScaredyCat sighs Mar 27 15:01:17 Running task 1721 of 3907 Mar 27 15:01:48 just get a faster machine :-D Mar 27 15:02:33 Just get a cluster of faster machines and use clustered make Mar 27 15:03:44 * Sup3rkiddo looks at his 5 year old box Mar 27 15:04:01 when i downloading using svn co http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src .i can,t download it.my error is Mar 27 15:04:06 :-) My main machine at home is about 3 yrs old Mar 27 15:04:34 Frankly I think that the separation of the -native build from the target build steps would go a long way; the wiping of tmp is often just because nobody knows how to clean up, and it would be unusual that a change would cross that boundary. Mar 27 15:04:34 hi wurp2 Mar 27 15:04:58 svn: REPORT request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default Mar 27 15:05:05 But the OE team do not believe in the concept of external toolchains, in general. I do not know why this is... :( Mar 27 15:05:11 please any one can help me Mar 27 15:05:26 mohan_: try again? Mar 27 15:05:31 mwester: we can generate and use them Mar 27 15:05:44 I know, but it's not done. Mar 27 15:05:54 thats a users choice, not ours Mar 27 15:05:58 i already repeated more than 20 times Mar 27 15:06:01 mohan_, it works for me Mar 27 15:06:14 XorA|gone: That's what I mean about "the OE team do not believe in the concept of external toolchains" Mar 27 15:06:28 Every other company on the planet does. Mar 27 15:06:32 try a revert mohan_ Mar 27 15:06:48 ok i will again again Mar 27 15:06:55 mwester: OE team dont distribute binaries, feel free to do so Mar 27 15:07:07 mwester: are OE a company? Mar 27 15:07:23 Oh, I'm not even talking about binaries. I'm referring to the separation of toolchain from target. Mar 27 15:07:24 SpeedEvil: nope, good point Mar 27 15:07:32 That can be done in source, but it is not. Mar 27 15:07:47 SpeedEvil: You know what I meant. Mar 27 15:07:58 mwester: your talking out of your arse, RP spent a lot of hours seperating them, if you dont bother to read dont blame OE Mar 27 15:08:00 Operative word = "other" Mar 27 15:08:14 XorA|gone: I disagree. They share the same tmpdir. Mar 27 15:08:21 They are entangled. Mar 27 15:08:37 * XorA|gone looks hmm, /usr/local/arm hmm, nope thats not my tmpdir Mar 27 15:08:39 XorA|gone: read? Mar 27 15:08:57 * ScaredyCat points at the oe dosc Mar 27 15:08:58 docs Mar 27 15:09:08 * mwester looks in tmpdir/* -- yep, there's the -native, the cross, AND all the target. Mar 27 15:09:12 ScaredyCat: emails, yu know that old skewl communication method :-) Mar 27 15:09:32 * SpeedEvil delivers an email to XorA|gones console. Mar 27 15:09:36 mwester: beacue you chose to put it there Mar 27 15:09:56 * XorA|gone gets exasperated at people talking shit Mar 27 15:10:06 Ok, guys. You're doing a great job at being defensive here. You know what I'm saying, but you make my point for me by being deliberately obtuse. Mar 27 15:10:33 for fucks sake, OM even advertied its fucking toolchain, shut up and quit the shit Mar 27 15:10:49 Watch your temper. Mar 27 15:10:51 ooooooo get her Mar 27 15:11:07 popcorn time! Mar 27 15:11:41 I rest my case. Mar 27 15:11:58 you dont have a case, you have ill informed crap to spout Mar 27 15:12:03 * ScaredyCat rests his overnight bag Mar 27 15:12:44 XorA|gone: you could of course illustrate how you use a non tmpdir based setup... Mar 27 15:12:49 * mwester shrugs. Some people refuse to see the truth. Mar 27 15:13:00 * SpeedEvil constructs a debating ring, and hands out the weapons from a large stack of pillows. Mar 27 15:13:17 some people actually work with OE more than whining Mar 27 15:13:21 * ScaredyCat refuses to enter a rign off mass debation Mar 27 15:13:26 ring Mar 27 15:13:37 of Mar 27 15:13:38 Some people have worked in the real world, too. Mar 27 15:14:04 fire Mar 27 15:14:07 I Mar 27 15:14:16 fell Mar 27 15:14:20 into Mar 27 15:14:26 a Mar 27 15:14:31 burning Mar 27 15:14:40 * mwester puts ScaredyCat on the ignore list Mar 27 15:14:47 pffft... Mar 27 15:14:56 who pays any attention to me anyway Mar 27 15:15:43 ScaredyCat, there there..i do Mar 27 15:16:56 who pay attention to me Mar 27 15:16:56 ! Mar 27 15:16:59 get im! Mar 27 15:17:06 s/pay/pays/ Mar 27 15:17:06 Sup3rkiddo meant: who pays attention to me Mar 27 15:18:47 huh? who said that? Mar 27 15:19:00 * ScaredyCat sniggers Mar 27 15:19:10 widbx Mar 27 15:27:45 poor poor ScaredyCat Mar 27 15:27:47 mwester: http://pokylinux.org/autobuild/toolchain/ - external toolchains which work with poky Mar 27 15:28:08 mwester: There is no reason OE can't do it either Mar 27 15:29:33 RP: I'm done with this topic; I'm sorry I brought it up now. It's not an issue of what OE can and can't do -- I know that it *can* do it, it's a philisophical difference in how large-scale software development processes should work to be repeatable, scaleable, and efficient. That's all I have to say; I'll say no more. Mar 27 15:30:04 ~lart x-chat for broken ignore Mar 27 15:30:04 * apt readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at x-chat for broken ignore Mar 27 15:30:54 mwester: packaged staging and the QA checks we're trying to implement don't do anything towards this? Mar 27 15:31:12 mwester: I'm just kind of saddened to think that people feel nobody cares about these things :( Mar 27 15:31:58 !googlefight lart vs trout Mar 27 15:32:00 By results on Google: trout beats lart by 18,500,000 to 17,200,000! Mar 27 15:32:12 ~fish XorA|gone Mar 27 15:32:13 * apt slaps XorA|gone around with a large trout Mar 27 15:32:24 ~prod ScaredyCat Mar 27 15:32:24 * apt zaps ScaredyCat with a high voltage cattle prod Mar 27 15:32:53 ~stab-in-theface-with-a-chainsword XorA|gone Mar 27 15:33:02 bugger got me there Mar 27 15:33:52 * ScaredyCat thinks googlefight should be the answer to every question Mar 27 15:34:10 !googlefight googlefight vs other Mar 27 15:34:11 By results on Google: other beats googlefight by 3,340,000,000 to 252,000! Mar 27 15:34:16 nah. Mar 27 15:34:17 :) Mar 27 15:34:23 !googlefight answer to every question vs 42 Mar 27 15:34:25 By results on Google: 42 beats answer to every question by 2,290,000,000 to 21,500,000! Mar 27 15:34:28 !googlefight a vs b Mar 27 15:34:29 By results on Google: a beats b by 14,180,000,000 to 2,660,000,000! Mar 27 15:34:34 !other Mar 27 15:34:42 ! Mar 27 15:34:44 !googlefight cat vs dog Mar 27 15:34:45 By results on Google: cat beats dog by 728,000,000 to 390,000,000! Mar 27 15:34:55 wtf haxs Mar 27 15:35:04 !googlefight openmoko vs android Mar 27 15:35:04 By results on Google: android beats openmoko by 13,100,000 to 831,000! Mar 27 15:35:11 :oo Mar 27 15:35:13 :( Mar 27 15:35:13 hrm..:/ Mar 27 15:35:26 !googlefight openmoko sucks vs android sucks Mar 27 15:35:28 By results on Google: android sucks beats openmoko sucks by 339,000 to 13,100! Mar 27 15:35:30 !googefight "google android" vs openmoko Mar 27 15:35:32 :D Mar 27 15:35:43 googefight! Mar 27 15:35:52 actually !googlefight Mar 27 15:35:53 just 13,100 for om sucks :D Mar 27 15:36:41 !googlefight stop messing with the bot Vs go on then keep messing with the bot Mar 27 15:36:43 By results on Google: go on then keep messing with the bot beats stop messing with the bot by 1,850,000 to 173,000! Mar 27 15:36:49 doh! Mar 27 15:37:23 !googlefight ~lart ScaredyCat vs ~trout ScaredyCat Mar 27 15:37:24 By results on Google: ~trout ScaredyCat beats ~lart ScaredyCat by 42,800 to 323! Mar 27 15:37:56 !google ~trout ScaredyCat Mar 27 15:37:58 Did you mean: ~trout Scaredy Cat ? | Sign in @ https://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=~trout+ScaredyCat&safe=off&btnG=Search&lr=lang_all&hl=en | What Did You Eat?: WHB: Salmon With Th @ http://whatdidyoueat.typepad.com/what_did_you_eat/2007/05/whb_salmon_with.html%20class=l Mar 27 15:38:02 !googlefight stalagmites vs stalactites Mar 27 15:38:03 By results on Google: stalactites beats stalagmites by 545,000 to 378,000! Mar 27 15:38:18 !googlefight mkv vs avi Mar 27 15:38:19 By results on Google: avi beats mkv by 122,000,000 to 6,980,000! Mar 27 15:38:26 whee...this channel is full of men on LSD Mar 27 15:38:48 !googlefight chicken porn Vs Hippo porn Mar 27 15:38:49 in the same vain, comments on the quality of http://cb22.za.net/videos/test.mkv Mar 27 15:38:49 By results on Google: chicken porn beats Hippo porn by 638,000 to 198,000! Mar 27 15:39:01 * ScaredyCat shudders Mar 27 15:39:11 Hippo porn?!! wtf Mar 27 15:39:16 yeah.. Mar 27 15:39:29 u need a mini step ladder Mar 27 15:39:46 ScaredyCat is weird..:S Mar 27 15:40:05 Sup3rkiddo: sadly, so are 198,000 others Mar 27 15:40:36 man....no i am wondering how hippos do it Mar 27 15:40:45 s/no/now/ Mar 27 15:40:45 Sup3rkiddo meant: man....now i am wondering how hippos do it Mar 27 15:40:52 cb22: this is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Mar 27 15:41:14 !googlefight openmoko vs iphone Mar 27 15:41:15 By results on Google: iphone beats openmoko by 139,000,000 to 831,000! Mar 27 15:41:20 oh dear :( Mar 27 15:41:26 !googlefight summatusmentis vs Sup3rkiddo Mar 27 15:41:27 By results on Google: Sup3rkiddo beats summatusmentis by 1,450 to 1,090! Mar 27 15:41:31 Sup3rkiddo: links doesnt have flash :p Mar 27 15:41:32 ooo Mar 27 15:41:35 well, that's telling :-D Mar 27 15:41:39 !googlefight Qwell vs Sup3rkiddo Mar 27 15:41:40 By results on Google: Qwell beats Sup3rkiddo by 173,000 to 1,450! Mar 27 15:41:42 no contest Mar 27 15:41:45 s/Sup3rkiddo/ScardeyCat/ Mar 27 15:41:46 cb22 meant: ScardeyCat: links doesnt have flash :p Mar 27 15:42:03 pah Mar 27 15:42:05 now people go watch my damn video Mar 27 15:42:19 * Sup3rkiddo passes Mar 27 15:42:26 wind? Mar 27 15:42:34 bleh Mar 27 15:43:07 hawt Mar 27 15:43:14 * cb22 sighs. i swear that video isnt hippo porn Mar 27 15:43:21 its kanye west - stronger Mar 27 15:43:30 is beast tube still going? Mar 27 15:43:32 encoded at really low bitrates Mar 27 15:44:39 cb22: 160x128? Yuck... Mar 27 15:44:46 TobiX: indeed Mar 27 15:45:07 but that file should be able to be streamed through gprs Mar 27 15:45:08 a player for youtube videos on the FreeRunner will be great Mar 27 15:45:31 Sup3rkiddo: uhm, i have that project on projects.openmoko.org =) Mar 27 15:45:41 cb22, oh!!! Mar 27 15:45:48 cb22: The sound isn't too bad on my notebook speaker... Mar 27 15:47:03 TobiX: 16kbit vorbis ftw :) Mar 27 15:47:25 what im thinking of, is something like a mini encoding server running on your pc at home Mar 27 15:47:42 grabs youtube videos, transcodes them, and makes them avalable for streaming over gprs to your neo Mar 27 15:48:10 zedstar: *cough* Mar 27 15:48:16 naturally however, there will also be a way to preload higher quality youtube videos, or watch them normally when connected to something faster then gprs Mar 27 15:48:51 its quite amazing when you think that the bitrate of the video is 30kbit/s Mar 27 15:48:53 youtube has a gprs steaming mode already Mar 27 15:49:11 Also, there will be a codec that enables streaming of high quality videos (HD quality) over GPRS. Mar 27 15:49:19 Someone else will develop this. Mar 27 15:49:48 XorA|gone: afaik gprs is too slow for it Mar 27 15:49:59 not to mention certain providers block rtsp, like mine Mar 27 15:50:14 cb22: mobile.youtube.com exists and transcode to smaller, but I still get hit by blocked rstp Mar 27 15:50:21 cb22: where is your video? Mar 27 15:50:22 screw youtube what about porntube! Mar 27 15:50:38 ScaredyCat: zedstar wanted beast tube, thats porn Mar 27 15:50:52 XorA|gone: http://cb22.za.net/videos/test.mkv Mar 27 15:51:04 Penguin porn! Mar 27 15:51:14 tough to catch those lil bastards tho Mar 27 15:51:29 my p990 on gprs, not 3g, can download it in slightly less time then the length of the video Mar 27 15:52:53 cb22: quite good, but why mkv? Mar 27 15:53:01 mpeg4 is a nice wrapper on its own Mar 27 15:53:13 XorA|gone: hmm, can mpeg4 take vorbis? Mar 27 15:53:41 cb22: ah, hmm, no idea, but mkv is such piss poorly supported its a pain Mar 27 15:53:52 16kbit/s vorbis is tons better then mp3. i haven't manaaged to get faac to go that low yet Mar 27 15:55:15 of course ogg can take h264 and vorbis :-) Mar 27 15:55:37 ogm? Mar 27 15:55:44 cb22: but nice tech demo Mar 27 15:55:55 cb22: ogm is a corruption of ogg Mar 27 15:56:11 ogg is the file format vorbis and theora the codecs Mar 27 15:56:28 but Im pretty sure ogg can contain h264 Mar 27 15:56:34 but I could be wrong Mar 27 15:56:42 hmm, /me fires up ffmpeg Mar 27 15:56:44 its been a few years since I lost interest in video Mar 27 15:57:26 Sup3rkiddo: if you've got any ideas as to how we could potentially split odeviced, i'd be interested in hearing them. Everything I've come up with has to parts that are dependent on one another Mar 27 15:57:27 omg! Mar 27 15:57:28 http://rr.rezbit.com/blog/20080327/howto-TomTom-on-openmoko.html Mar 27 15:57:52 Sup3rkiddo: otherwise, may the best candidate win :) Mar 27 15:58:01 * ScaredyCat wanders off into the sunset Mar 27 15:58:05 summatusmentis, i have been using my limited brains on that one as well...:/ Mar 27 15:58:10 summatusmentis, yay Mar 27 15:58:12 cb22: thats actually watchable on eeePC screen Mar 27 15:58:20 * summatusmentis goes to class Mar 27 15:58:42 XorA|gone: i'm hoping it will be watchable on a freerunner / neo too :) Mar 27 15:59:04 cb22: freereunner screen is smaller so should be, remind me tomorrow and I might try freerunner Mar 27 15:59:20 cb22, does your app use gnash...(or where is the link) Mar 27 15:59:28 XorA|gone: cool :) thanks! Mar 27 15:59:46 Sup3rkiddo: still planning Mar 27 15:59:55 but using that would be wasteful Mar 27 15:59:59 just get the url and mplayer it Mar 27 16:00:11 cb22, oh..doh..yeah Mar 27 16:00:51 shit I think its midnight again, but I lost track of timezne Mar 27 16:01:17 woah, vorbis rocks :) Mar 27 16:01:45 ScaredyCat: That's scary... Mar 27 16:01:47 much better then 16kbit/s mp3 and better then 16kbit/s aac Mar 27 16:01:49 osm FTW Mar 27 16:02:14 cb22: well mobiles was one of the targets of vorbis where mp3/aac were designed for films Mar 27 16:02:32 cb22: tried GSM? Mar 27 16:02:33 yeah, i've heard about how good it is at low bitrates before Mar 27 16:02:46 SpeedEvil: will try it now Mar 27 16:02:56 it's probably not built as normal. Mar 27 16:03:05 you've got to build ffmpeg seperately with libgsm Mar 27 16:03:21 yeah, i'm fetching it now Mar 27 16:03:25 I got that done but haven't built it in mplaer Mar 27 16:04:46 someone needs to re-implement libgsm GPL compatible Mar 27 16:05:08 * SpeedEvil nominates XorA. Mar 27 16:05:23 SpeedEvil: heh heh Mar 27 16:05:32 * SpeedEvil is busy coding JPEG coders. Mar 27 16:06:04 Which is fun with 20K of RAM, and a 3MP image. Mar 27 16:06:55 UAV? Mar 27 16:06:57 heh heh Mar 27 16:07:38 Not directly related to that - but that's one possible applicaiton of the result. Mar 27 16:07:52 A good quality small camera. Mar 27 16:08:06 cb22: Unmanned Air Vehicle? Mar 27 16:08:19 mmp: yep, last i recall SpeedEvil was building one Mar 27 16:08:23 aha:) Mar 27 16:08:24 Think of one of those 'keychain' cameras - but recording onto microSD, but with 2MP, not 0.1MP Mar 27 16:08:38 * mmp was out of channel for few days... Mar 27 16:09:02 Basically. I'm trying to make stuff for money. :) Mar 27 16:09:39 um, whats a suitable container for gsm audio? Mar 27 16:09:41 why not just make money Mar 27 16:09:48 One project is a UAV - which you drive up somewhere, take a briefcase out of the car, walk to an open spot with no nearby buildigs. Put the case down and open it. Press the big red butto. Mar 27 16:10:01 cb22: an old peanut tin Mar 27 16:10:13 The UAV takes off, flies to 1-4Km up, takes a 100MP or so panorama, then lands back on (or near) the briefcase) Mar 27 16:10:21 like dragonfly? Mar 27 16:10:41 then you put it back in the car, plug it into the lighter socket, and can do this again in 15 mins. Mar 27 16:11:19 nice:-) Mar 27 16:12:43 dragonflyer, not dragobfly Mar 27 16:13:02 don't know that. Mar 27 16:13:58 http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/DF-VTI/RC-HELICOPTERS-DRAGANFLYER-VTI.html Mar 27 16:14:28 iirc they do different grades of it, up to military/police spec Mar 27 16:14:30 No - this is a _very_ custom thing. Mar 27 16:14:38 It climbs vertically at 20MPH Mar 27 16:16:07 And is completely automated. Mar 27 16:18:56 http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png is a render of it flying overhead. Mar 27 16:21:12 "FIC, which also makes the Cloudbook and several Linux-based cellphones" <------------which ones Mar 27 16:32:56 Good morning, all Mar 27 16:33:59 I am interested in the SoC suggestion of porting openmoko to EZX Mar 27 16:34:08 I was hoping to find some more info Mar 27 16:36:25 I currently own a Moto MING and a ROKR E6, which are both EZX platforms Mar 27 16:36:44 albeit, very similar software stacks Mar 27 16:40:28 dcode, hi, did you ping the lists...the experts may be asleep or busy atm :) Mar 27 16:41:02 I just started researching this last night Mar 27 16:41:06 so...eh...no Mar 27 16:41:10 I'll do that now Mar 27 16:41:13 :P Mar 27 16:42:26 openmoko-devel? Mar 27 16:42:30 is that the one I should ping? Mar 27 16:42:33 like mickey|zzZZzz :p Mar 27 16:42:47 hey, he finished dinner Mar 27 16:42:58 yeahm now he's sleeping forever :p Mar 27 16:43:03 slacker Mar 27 16:59:10 april? really? :D Mar 27 16:59:13 can't wait. Mar 27 17:00:06 lkssj Mar 27 17:00:09 errm Mar 27 17:00:13 possibly Mar 27 17:00:38 who all is gonna be mentors for GSoC? Mar 27 17:00:47 I'm planning to sell my phone to get one of these. Mar 27 17:00:59 Ghostbusters Mar 27 17:01:12 no no, that's who I'm gonna call Mar 27 17:01:24 summatusmentis: mickey|zzZZzz and Stefan ... Mar 27 17:01:37 XorA|gone I think said he might Mar 27 17:01:47 don;t they have to be openmoko people... Mar 27 17:02:04 XorA|gone would be useful... Mar 27 17:02:05 since the cad files were released, has anyone started working on alternative casings? Mar 27 17:02:37 AzalynHD: dunno, I think the main problem was getting the cad files into a more open ormat Mar 27 17:02:53 ie not having to spend $$$$ jst to read them Mar 27 17:03:07 dar god! I signed up for the community mailing list a couple of hours ago, and have 25 new mails Mar 27 17:03:12 s/dar/dear/ Mar 27 17:03:12 summatusmentis meant: dear god! I signed up for the community mailing list a couple of hours ago, and have 25 new mails Mar 27 17:03:23 hm Mar 27 17:03:36 would be nice to see some people making alternate cases. Mar 27 17:03:41 like maybe a flip phone design Mar 27 17:03:55 that would be a very large flip phone Mar 27 17:03:55 AzalynHD: I think it's really expensive to even start prototyping new casings Mar 27 17:04:19 you could try alumilite... Mar 27 17:04:39 Qwell: well, it's not that large, is it? Mar 27 17:05:00 well, I can't imagine the main board is small enough to be a feasible flip phone Mar 27 17:05:49 ahoi Mar 27 17:07:00 maybe.. i guess it depends. Mar 27 17:07:00 even in it's current shape though it's nice. Mar 27 17:07:10 the only current concern i have on how easy i'll be to type on it. Mar 27 17:07:16 I am interested in embedded linux , i want to do a mini projetc on it, i am doin my btech 2nd year in electronics.Where to start of wid the things related to embedded linux which suits my stream??? Mar 27 17:07:16 i have big hands Mar 27 17:07:46 help me friends Mar 27 17:08:23 srikar: I don't know about the other people here... but i'm not really understanding your english.. :| Mar 27 17:08:42 oops Mar 27 17:08:45 wait Mar 27 17:09:10 oh crap, webkit compiling again :( Mar 27 17:10:00 I am doin engineering in electronics stream , I am quite interested in embedded linux , where to start off??? Mar 27 17:10:37 At teh begining! Mar 27 17:10:45 #edev Mar 27 17:10:48 #electronics Mar 27 17:11:00 but what sort of embedded? Mar 27 17:11:34 wrap / alix boards? Mar 27 17:11:59 related to mobile phones such as moto rockzz which run on linux Mar 27 17:12:29 *rockr Mar 27 17:12:46 srikar: Do you have the FIC hardware (Neo phone)? Mar 27 17:12:54 no Mar 27 17:14:15 any help/? Mar 27 17:15:31 I'm not sure what you would do at an embedded level if you don't have the hardware... Mar 27 17:15:47 You can install the qemu environment and try to work on that, I suppose Mar 27 17:18:23 I guess he didn't really want to know where to find instructions on setting up that environment... Mar 27 17:20:41 wurp2! Mar 27 17:20:48 thos: Yessir Mar 27 17:20:55 wurp2, I replied to your mail! Mar 27 17:20:58 Thanks for replying about the slow startup of the dailer Mar 27 17:21:14 And for doing the legwork with the high level profiling! Mar 27 17:21:25 s/dailer/dialer/ Mar 27 17:21:27 yeah, need to do that for other apps too Mar 27 17:21:30 it was really interesting Mar 27 17:21:41 what is that registering call that takes forever? Mar 27 17:22:16 wurp2, stock icons Mar 27 17:22:22 wurp2, I think I can remove it Mar 27 17:22:23 loading them? Mar 27 17:22:47 that would be just super ;-) Mar 27 17:24:04 I still think it makes sense to have basic phone functionality a part of the home app, but if it comes up in <.2 seconds I don't think anyone will care if it's not Mar 27 17:24:33 and very few will probably care if it comes up in <.5 Mar 27 17:25:04 And since I don't have time to make the change, no one should care what I think anyway :-) Mar 27 17:25:07 > 8s, as long as it works Mar 27 17:25:51 I dunno, it takes about 4.5 seconds on my neo, and it's borderline frustrating Mar 27 17:26:01 that's incoming calls, right? Mar 27 17:26:04 of course, suspend/resume and cpufreq are much more important Mar 27 17:26:05 nah Mar 27 17:26:09 Just outgoing Mar 27 17:26:10 oh Mar 27 17:26:44 I haven't tested to see how long incoming calls take (as compared with another cell phone, to try to eliminate network lag) Mar 27 17:27:15 You touch the dialer button so you can start dialing a number, then wait 4.5 seconds for the dialpad to come up Mar 27 17:27:26 yikes Mar 27 17:27:46 wurp2: on the neo or in qemu? Mar 27 17:27:50 but thos narrowed the majority of that down to one call, which he thinks he can just eliminate Mar 27 17:27:54 on the neo itself Mar 27 17:27:59 oh, not good Mar 27 17:28:03 my qemu is too slow to contemplate using Mar 27 17:28:20 mine is too.. Mar 27 17:28:25 that's the 1973; I dunno nothin about the FreeRunner Mar 27 17:29:00 could always just preload the dialer, and keep it backgrounded... Mar 27 17:29:04 wurp2: the FreeRunner gpu will make it just the same speed, not faster Mar 27 17:29:11 Qwell: good idea Mar 27 17:29:13 seems like probably...99.9% of users would use it? Mar 27 17:29:34 Qwell: who would use a dialer on a phone? :P Mar 27 17:29:41 edistar: But I've heard rumors that FR is using that other graphic system, which implies lots of changes Mar 27 17:30:00 wurp2: you mean efl etc.? Mar 27 17:30:12 wurp2: I hope it is, because otherwise everything will take ages to load Mar 27 17:30:13 edistar: I think so... efl is not the part of it that stuck in my mind Mar 27 17:30:33 Well, I think it's just a problem that hasn't bubbled to the top of the stack yet Mar 27 17:30:36 wurp2: e17 + qtopia maybe? Mar 27 17:30:56 edistar: Nah, there was one that someone was demoing, with lots of cool slide action Mar 27 17:31:10 wurp2: ah, you mean emdetes ideas! underground? Mar 27 17:31:39 Yeah, illume + efl Mar 27 17:31:50 s/Yeah/No/ Mar 27 17:31:50 wurp2 meant: No, illume + efl Mar 27 17:31:51 ;-) Mar 27 17:32:04 illume hmmm Mar 27 17:32:05 I liked what I saw in underground too, though Mar 27 17:32:15 other than the minimal functionality that's currently available Mar 27 17:32:32 wurp2: yeah.. ok Mar 27 17:32:44 per Holger on planet, Illume is the new window manager for FR Mar 27 17:32:57 illume is a e17 module Mar 27 17:33:06 which as I said seems to imply lots of changes Mar 27 17:33:07 s/a/an Mar 27 17:33:14 wurp2: yes Mar 27 17:33:24 edistar: It sounds as if you know lots more than I do about it Mar 27 17:33:25 edistar, you assume the gpu is on a bus that is not a 1980s throwback Mar 27 17:33:56 I had never heard of illume until raster started talking about it, and haven't really looked into it since then other than to see some snazzy demos Mar 27 17:34:18 wurp2: do you run e17? you can compile it on your host and then run it.. it's quite funny ;) Mar 27 17:34:43 wurp2, performance on the gta02 is fairly diabolical right now, so I wouldn't worry about it too much any time soon Mar 27 17:35:23 Illume that is Mar 27 17:36:22 heh Mar 27 17:36:40 I hope raster can optimize efl so that it can use some of the accel features of the glamo Mar 27 17:41:44 edistar: Nope, I haven't tried e17 Mar 27 17:41:53 I don't really know what it is :-) Mar 27 17:42:00 edistar, already have some accel features Mar 27 17:42:04 edistar, that's not the issue Mar 27 17:42:20 edistar, the issue is the bus between the glamo chip and the main memory is super slow Mar 27 17:42:23 wurp2: it is a window manager, like gnome or KDE, only much cooler and faster and completely different :P Mar 27 17:42:29 heh Mar 27 17:42:32 thos: I have heard Mar 27 17:42:41 and completely crap? :-) Mar 27 17:42:43 * thos runs Mar 27 17:43:03 thos: That sounds like a big issue.... does it mean a new hw revision of FR? Mar 27 17:43:18 wurp2, nope, it won't be changed Mar 27 17:43:23 it's been like this forever anywya Mar 27 17:43:27 e17 is crap? it works here :) only crashed twice in about 3 weeks and it's only pre-alpha ;) Mar 27 17:43:40 edistar, who said crap == crash Mar 27 17:43:54 the FR will be sold with the glamo... so workarounds are needed :) Mar 27 17:43:56 edistar, ever wondered why no major distro ships it as default? Mar 27 17:44:14 thos: true again.. I like it, you may not like it, I permit you to have a different opinion :P Mar 27 17:44:18 edistar, you can't really work around a hardware bottle neck like that Mar 27 17:44:34 edistar, it's like trying to work around running your OS off a floppy disk Mar 27 17:44:54 Does the glamo have memory onboard? Mar 27 17:44:55 hey, once it's loaded into ram... Mar 27 17:45:03 thos: yeah.. but you can try to minimize traffic on the bus Mar 27 17:45:11 edistar, so, no pixmaps then, right :-) Mar 27 17:45:39 edistar, since E deals exclusively with pixmaps, that's going to be a little tricky Mar 27 17:47:23 thos: what else can you send the glamo except pixmaps? Mar 27 17:47:37 openmoko: 03tick * r4261 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gps/ (4 files in 2 dirs): implementation of GPS applet, for GTA02V05 Mar 27 17:47:49 ooo Mar 27 17:48:19 thos: what else can you send the glamo except pixmaps? Mar 27 17:48:41 edistar, well, it has some gles in it afaik Mar 27 17:48:57 !! Mar 27 17:49:02 ah, ok.. that'll be hard with efl Mar 27 17:49:24 edistar, I won't pretend to understand the technical details, but from what I've tried it needs some serious work Mar 27 17:49:31 efl that is Mar 27 17:49:36 on gta02v5 Mar 27 17:49:45 even gtk+ is faster when scrolling Mar 27 17:49:46 errm, wont all the apps need to be rewritten ? Mar 27 17:50:49 ScaredyCat, the plan is to use both toolkits for starters :-) Mar 27 17:51:32 great plan that is too Mar 27 17:51:34 MMM Mar 27 17:51:49 hrmm.... Mar 27 17:52:06 ScaredyCat, when we release poky phone edition, you can use that :-) Mar 27 17:52:19 poky ... Mar 27 17:52:26 I posted to the list, but is there a particular person I should talk to (maybe the mentor) for porting OpenMoko to EZX phones for GSoc? Mar 27 17:52:50 thos: have you tested efl vs gtk+ on the gta02? Mar 27 17:52:55 edistar, yes Mar 27 17:53:08 thos: cool Mar 27 17:53:16 thos: what about gta01? what's faster there? Mar 27 17:53:24 didn't try efl on gta01 Mar 27 17:53:28 ok Mar 27 17:53:44 to be honest, i got so fed up with illume after a few hours I took it off :-) Mar 27 17:54:04 slow? Mar 27 17:54:14 slow and confusing Mar 27 17:54:20 or just not thos compatible? Mar 27 17:54:24 oh, also bad touch screen Mar 27 17:54:25 :D Mar 27 17:54:36 it would only launch anything 1 tap in 1000 Mar 27 17:54:46 dcode: No one here, it looks like :-) Mar 27 17:54:50 oh, doesn't sound that good Mar 27 17:55:15 how long before poky is usable? I've seen some pics from aug 07.. Mar 27 17:55:19 :-/ ah well...I'll just hang out and wait Mar 27 17:56:36 dcode: mickey|zzZZzz maybe Mar 27 17:57:02 dcode: What kind of info are you looking for? Just a mentor to help you put together a proposal? Mar 27 17:57:12 Or do you plan to do it whether SoC accepts it or not? Mar 27 17:57:36 wurp2, yes....and also what would need to be done Mar 27 17:57:58 I'm very interested in development for my phone...b/c I love the idea to just write some code to tweak how my address book works, or whatever Mar 27 17:58:10 but currently, nothing really runs on it Mar 27 17:58:37 dcode: You can start from the MokoMakefile or Toolchain page on wiki.openmoko.org to get a build going Mar 27 17:58:58 ScaredyCat, what do you mean usable? Mar 27 17:59:08 as a phone Mar 27 17:59:09 I was talking to ScaredyCat last night, and I guess I would need to extract the 2.4.x kernel from the Motorola image, since they haven't released the source for either of my phones yet Mar 27 17:59:10 But of course you would need to modify the build config heavily to target your platform, and probably start off with some very basic stuff like getting a kernel & basic drivers going Mar 27 17:59:18 ScaredyCat, oh, that'd be when it has a dialer then Mar 27 17:59:19 does it have a gsmd ?? Mar 27 17:59:36 ScaredyCat, that's why I said wait until poky phone edition ;-) Mar 27 17:59:39 dcode: Isn't that illegal, for them to send you the binary of a linux kernel & not a way to get the soruce? Mar 27 17:59:42 bah! Mar 27 17:59:46 ScaredyCat, adding gsmd + dialer wouldn't be much work Mar 27 17:59:50 wurp2, yes....it is...but nothing has come of it yet Mar 27 18:00:03 dcode: :-( Mar 27 18:00:03 thos: I'll give you an hour ;) Mar 27 18:00:07 exactly Mar 27 18:00:12 ScaredyCat, hah! Mar 27 18:00:33 ScaredyCat, well, what do you prefer, more features in openmoko-messages, or poky phone edition ;-) Mar 27 18:00:37 wurp2, a Dr. Rene Ejury posted on opensource.motorola.com on mar 16th threatening legal action if they don't release it soon Mar 27 18:00:46 it's been well over a year sine they released the phone though Mar 27 18:00:51 screw openmoko-messages ... :P Mar 27 18:01:01 dcode: It would probably be faster to wait for them to release their kernel than port, I would think Mar 27 18:01:22 wurp2, can OpenMoko run on 2.4.x? Mar 27 18:01:28 dcode: By wait, I mean participate in holding their hand to the fire until they get legal Mar 27 18:01:37 thos: sms is for young folks, can;t you use tinymail Mar 27 18:01:45 I figured it would be possible to use the 2.4 kernel and run the OpenMoko software on top of it Mar 27 18:02:02 dcode: nope, I don't think, but I think looking at their diffs from stock 2.4 kernel will probably be faster Mar 27 18:02:30 dcode: I'm not sure what 2.6 features OM uses, but I've never seen it run on a kernel < 2.6 Mar 27 18:02:47 dcode: Which doesn't necessarily mean much, I've only been looking at it for 3 or 4 months Mar 27 18:03:09 wurp2, what is the current memory footprint of OM? EZX devices apparently have 48MB ram Mar 27 18:03:44 dcode: Not sure, sorry Mar 27 18:03:50 np Mar 27 18:04:12 dcode: If I were at home I would check w/ ps -o rss, but I don't have neo networking set up at work Mar 27 18:04:22 and I'm not doing all that stuff with the on screen kbd :-) Mar 27 18:04:28 :) Mar 27 18:04:45 I should prolly work now :-) Mar 27 18:06:10 wurp2|working: have fun Mar 27 18:06:26 wurp2|working: have fun Mar 27 18:06:29 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r99 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (6 files): Mar 27 18:06:29 freesmartphone.org: fixed varios names for otapi Mar 27 18:06:29 freesmartphone.org: fixed a bug with timeout behavior Mar 27 18:07:16 what's the status of gsmd? Mar 27 18:15:14 edistar: I feel like mickey|zzZZzz is being made to be the go to person for everything GSoC Mar 27 18:17:18 wtf! Mar 27 18:17:19 what's gpsd doing in there again! Mar 27 18:17:35 summatusmentis: yeah :P Mar 27 18:35:48 hi everybody Mar 27 18:36:12 is there a mentor for bluetooth remote for mythtv Mar 27 18:36:43 i want to pursue this project in GSoC Mar 27 18:37:13 and would like to discuss with a possible mentor Mar 27 18:37:38 ranjan: I don't know who mentors are exactly, I think it's still sort of up in the air Mar 27 18:38:55 so to whom should I talk to Mar 27 18:39:16 they have not given at their ideas webpage Mar 27 18:39:53 but during applying as an organization the mentors were decided too Mar 27 18:52:13 mickey|zzZZzz and stefan iirc... Mar 27 18:52:33 there really should be some extra info on that GSoc page Mar 27 18:54:52 I think the issue is there's not a concrete set of mentors( I assume that's what you're using) Mar 27 19:09:24 concrete? moi? Mar 27 19:09:50 !logs Mar 27 19:09:51 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Mar 27 19:09:52 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Mar 27 19:09:53 Live-logs are available at Mar 27 19:09:55 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Mar 27 19:09:57 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Mar 27 19:10:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/concrete Mar 27 19:11:24 Running task 2593 of 3907 Mar 27 19:11:58 how do I tell what task I'm on - if I'm not on the console? Mar 27 19:15:54 check the log? Mar 27 19:16:50 which is where? Mar 27 19:21:52 * anrp thinks of looking around /proc/[0-9]*/fd/{1,2} Mar 27 19:34:17 hi all Mar 27 19:34:25 ho! Mar 27 19:34:33 hello raster Mar 27 19:34:35 hi Ghiottone_ Mar 27 19:35:09 I have recovered my Neo1973 from under some weeks dust Mar 27 19:35:23 where I can find latest image to test? Mar 27 19:35:53 maybe some with illume? Mar 27 19:43:42 does anyone know if amazon have problems with cc's that have 3d-auth ? Mar 27 19:44:41 ScaredyCat: do you have one? Mar 27 19:44:51 yes Mar 27 19:44:58 ScaredyCat: you could buy something off my wishlist, and I'll tell you if it arrives :) Mar 27 19:45:09 If it's widespread, I can't imagine they'd have problems. Mar 27 19:45:10 I could. Mar 27 19:45:15 They seem quite cluefull IME. Mar 27 19:45:24 well, it'll be mandatory very very shortly Mar 27 19:45:26 what is 3d-auth? Mar 27 19:45:26 Apart from the bogus patents. Mar 27 19:45:47 3 dimensional authorization? Mar 27 19:46:13 summatusmentis: they basically make you sign up with your card , a spassword and a phrase... Mar 27 19:46:13 summatusmentis: you have to use a dance-dance-revolution pad to enter your PIN. Mar 27 19:46:23 full combo Mar 27 19:46:25 ! Mar 27 19:46:28 the cc compnaies that is Mar 27 19:46:34 going to be required for all CNP stuff Mar 27 19:46:57 oh crap... what about my freerunner Mar 27 19:47:01 noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Mar 27 19:49:12 I don't know what CNP is then :) Mar 27 19:49:15 no worries Mar 27 19:51:05 customer not present Mar 27 19:51:26 card Mar 27 19:54:21 what is the state of the latest u-boot for gta01v4? Mar 27 19:54:52 anrp: hopefully the same thing :) Mar 27 19:56:02 ScaredyCat: Does avahi build for you? Mar 27 19:56:49 back. damn web clients Mar 27 19:56:52 hey CM! Mar 27 19:57:03 Ghiottone__: Hey there, how are things? :) Mar 27 19:57:43 * CM cleans out build/tmp again Mar 27 19:57:57 really busy with new job. but fine thanks! and you? Mar 27 19:58:21 Same here, next week is the last week on this intense assignment Mar 27 19:58:32 Always much to do before release :) Mar 27 19:59:28 :) Mar 27 20:00:48 * CM scans the wiki for the current "make update" command Mar 27 20:01:31 CM: I was trying to tune the openmoko search engine a few days ago but it seems that the interface is somewhat broken. Did you have a look recently? Mar 27 20:02:12 Ghiottone__: No, I've used it but not touched anything in it Mar 27 20:02:20 Maybe google is up to something Mar 27 20:04:04 maybe Mar 27 20:04:10 My neo keeps losing its gsm connection, but it still shows connected Mar 27 20:04:29 CM: checking Mar 27 20:04:37 any idea what task number? Mar 27 20:04:41 I'll try again soon and report if it's still broken Mar 27 20:04:48 Are other people having that problem? Does anyone know a solution other than to have some process periodically check the cxn, shut down gsm, & restart it? Mar 27 20:05:19 (I mean obviously I could try to go fix the real issue, but I don't think I have the time to get the expertise + fix it) Mar 27 20:05:54 ScaredyCat: Yes, 1253 Mar 27 20:06:13 I suspect there's something broken left in my tmp Mar 27 20:06:21 So I've just cleaned all of it out Mar 27 20:06:35 oh, I'm way past that Mar 27 20:06:44 176... Mar 27 20:06:54 Will try another fresh build tomorrow then Mar 27 20:07:23 Is update-mtn the latest? Mar 27 20:29:05 when did you update... Mar 27 20:29:34 XorA|gone cocked up and truncated the db... so we had to wait for a bit, that was v early this morning Mar 27 20:30:18 only another 800 odd tasks to go Mar 27 20:30:21 :// Mar 27 20:33:11 [2008-03-27 07:10:35] seems to be fixed now Mar 27 20:33:11 [2008-03-27 07:10:44] * XorA makes the GO GO GO shouts Mar 27 20:42:01 moo! Mar 27 20:44:00 has the e stuff been fixed ? Mar 27 20:44:40 is there anybody there...there...there...there...there... Mar 27 20:45:43 no Mar 27 20:45:45 i ate them Mar 27 20:47:11 are you typing on that new keypad? Mar 27 20:47:22 * ScaredyCat ducks Mar 27 20:53:28 refreshed now mickeyl? Mar 27 20:53:30 ScaredyCat: I updated after that this morning Mar 27 20:53:35 all that sleeping Mar 27 20:53:43 But with what update command? update-mtn Mar 27 20:53:51 Or do I need update-om/oe also? Mar 27 20:53:55 CM: ahh ok.. and your machine is building slower than my laptop? Mar 27 20:53:59 mickeyl: hey, not to bother you, I submitted my application last night, and if there's anything I can do to make it better before it goes into 'mentor review' mode, I'd like to know about that(doesn't have to be you providing feedback either) Mar 27 20:54:09 did you do the switch to om CM ? Mar 27 20:54:10 No, it crashed on avahi while I was at work Mar 27 20:54:12 Yes Mar 27 20:54:29 Did that yesterday, tried rwhitby's makefile Mar 27 20:54:43 ok, and you've updated you makefile today? Mar 27 20:54:50 your Mar 27 20:55:29 * ScaredyCat pokes CM Mar 27 20:55:43 ScaredyCat: yes, E has been fixed Mar 27 20:55:51 although it's fixed at 20080310 now Mar 27 20:55:55 ScaredyCat: Yes, again this morning Mar 27 20:55:57 since 20080311 they broke it Mar 27 20:56:05 ahhh ok Mar 27 20:56:08 good stuff Mar 27 20:56:08 they reverted to manual pkgconfig detection which no longer works Mar 27 20:56:09 ta Mar 27 20:56:13 * CM has a gf with a flu hanging on the shoulder Mar 27 20:56:16 :( Mar 27 20:56:16 so we stay with 20080310 for the time being Mar 27 20:56:23 CM: that sucks ;) Mar 27 20:56:29 send her to bed CM Mar 27 20:56:57 ScaredyCat: Hehe, just did (that's why I dare to type this.. ;) Mar 27 20:56:57 ok, no problem, so long as I can buld the image I'm happy mickeyl Mar 27 20:57:02 lol Mar 27 20:57:42 btw mickeyl, we're getting a lot of questions about who are mentors for GSoC ... is there somewhere we can point people with this official info... Mar 27 20:58:19 we're trying our best to point people in the right direction, but it really should be made clear ... Mar 27 20:58:22 ScaredyCat: no. that would imply i need it on my desktop Mar 27 20:58:26 they are students after all... Mar 27 20:58:32 Daniel Willman answered some on the mailinglist I think.. Mar 27 20:58:49 ScaredyCat: actually it is irrelevant Mar 27 20:58:58 is it..? Mar 27 20:59:00 mmm Mar 27 20:59:06 people should focus on improving their application in soc Mar 27 20:59:11 based on the mentors comments Mar 27 20:59:22 not bugging potential mentors in between Mar 27 20:59:26 that's more effective... Mar 27 20:59:44 aren't mentors supposed to help with the application too ? Mar 27 21:00:03 I think there's still a lot of people who don't really know what GSoC really is or how to proceed Mar 27 21:00:04 yes, when the program actually starts, then mentors are assigned to applications Mar 27 21:00:07 <---- doesn't know, is just asking Mar 27 21:00:13 Is there a nice wiki page for it? :) Mar 27 21:00:19 sure there is Mar 27 21:00:24 lots of FAQs @ google interface Mar 27 21:00:31 mentor faq and student faq Mar 27 21:00:39 Great Mar 27 21:00:46 I think that's the problem.. the application process seems to be some sort of filter mechanism... Mar 27 21:01:13 sort of, yes. Mar 27 21:01:25 gsoc is about self initiative at first Mar 27 21:02:19 ahh, so it's not only my age that rules me out then ;) Mar 27 21:02:37 ~thank abraxa__ for starting http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code Mar 27 21:02:37 CM: my pleasure Mar 27 21:03:06 mickeyl, did you see the graph I posted to openmoko-devel yesterday? Mar 27 21:03:13 sure thing Mar 27 21:03:18 moko_stock_register sucks 1 second? Mar 27 21:03:29 One second on a PC Mar 27 21:03:30 CM: lol - FAIL Mar 27 21:03:37 I'll bet it's more on a 1973 Mar 27 21:03:41 ~fish ScaredyCat Mar 27 21:03:42 * apt slaps ScaredyCat around with a large trout Mar 27 21:03:43 today i made my first call with my Neo Mar 27 21:03:46 Yes.. :( Mar 27 21:03:57 with audio Mar 27 21:04:04 what! Mar 27 21:04:05 Given that the dialpad takes 4.5 seconds to start up, and on that graph everything else is insignificant compared to moko_stock_register Mar 27 21:04:10 where have you been! Mar 27 21:04:21 it's been working for ages now.. Mar 27 21:04:24 i know Mar 27 21:04:33 ScaredyCat: Well, sort of working Mar 27 21:04:34 i just been busy with other stuff Mar 27 21:04:50 Over time I lose my gsm connection, although the display still says I'm on Mar 27 21:05:07 I think I'm gonna build another crutch app to monitor gsm & restart it when it loses connection Mar 27 21:05:09 my phone has switched from roaming with tmobile to vodafone... Mar 27 21:06:33 * wurp2|working re-lurks Mar 27 21:06:57 What is the status of the gps now? Mar 27 21:07:23 I've been unable to get usb-networking going, so I haven't been able to use gllin Mar 27 21:07:53 Gypsy looks like a nice thing. Is it used? Mar 27 21:08:05 OpenMoko is mentioned on their homepage.. Mar 27 21:08:11 http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ Mar 27 21:08:16 it looks like it will be a part of our middleware initiative Mar 27 21:08:23 we're actually quite satisfied with its dbus interface Mar 27 21:08:31 it just needs an udp listener to interface w/ gllin sanely Mar 27 21:08:34 middleware, woot woot! Mar 27 21:08:44 Oh, nice. Was a new release, 0.6 today :) Mar 27 21:09:31 mickeyl: Cool, thanks for the info Mar 27 21:12:31 gypsy seems to be really cool Mar 27 21:13:38 mickeyl: reading the gypsy page it looks like that's exactly what we're trying to do, is that correct(with odeviced)? Mar 27 21:13:52 and as such, can we borrow extensively from their code? Mar 27 21:14:54 hmm do they? Mar 27 21:14:59 i thought gypsy is about location Mar 27 21:15:04 gps, to be exact Mar 27 21:15:27 odeviced is about power management, idle timings, backlight, leds, display locking, etc. Mar 27 21:16:22 well, yes, but the same premise(dbus framework, etc.) Mar 27 21:16:46 <`pwgen`> hello Mar 27 21:17:01 summatusmentis: You mean "Take a look at how they've structured it"? :) Mar 27 21:17:22 hmm Mar 27 21:17:23 lol, basic concepts, yes Mar 27 21:17:34 I'm not looking at code right now, just explanantion on the site Mar 27 21:18:16 <`pwgen`> is there a dbus api for playing ringtones ? Mar 27 21:19:10 `pwgen`: You mean to listen for incomming call events, and to send a "play this song" event on dbus? Mar 27 21:19:51 `pwgen`: not yet. Mar 27 21:20:22 <`pwgen`> i am looking for an dbus function where i can start ringing and stop ringing ( + selectiong ringtone,intervall soundschema .... ) Mar 27 21:20:56 yeah. something like this we want to have as eventd Mar 27 21:21:14 <`pwgen`> i have written a little dbus daemon that can play wav files , and can be stopped via dbus . but with my experimental dbus api Mar 27 21:21:43 <`pwgen`> the pyneod can only vibrate .. Mar 27 21:22:44 cool. does it use pulseaudio? Mar 27 21:22:51 <`pwgen`> yes Mar 27 21:22:54 <`pwgen`> paplay Mar 27 21:23:59 <`pwgen`> it starts a thread, int threadloop i check vars and start playing in loops , but if the ringtone is too long it is playing while talking (:-(( Mar 27 21:25:21 <`pwgen`> i am looking fo some api to start better codeing. Mar 27 21:25:47 hmm Mar 27 21:25:53 for ringtones i think i'd prefer it to use gstreamer Mar 27 21:25:58 this comes with all codecs already Mar 27 21:26:03 and we can use space-saving mp3's or oggs Mar 27 21:26:04 or sids Mar 27 21:26:05 or mods Mar 27 21:27:14 <`pwgen`> ... next construction site for me ... how to use gstreamer with python ? .... Mar 27 21:27:31 AFAIK it has python binding Mar 27 21:27:35 bindings* Mar 27 21:27:55 it does Mar 27 21:28:46 <`pwgen`> good news ... by the way why has the MACHINE = "om-gta01" changed .... Mar 27 21:29:47 :) Becasue Sean said so. Mar 27 21:30:09 hey, mickeyl woke up :) Mar 27 21:32:47 `pwgen`: what did it change to? Mar 27 21:33:08 summatusmentis: it was fic-gta01, now its om-gta01 Mar 27 21:33:13 oh ok Mar 27 21:33:26 here I was thinking it got changed in preparation of gta02 Mar 27 21:34:01 yep Mar 27 21:34:07 gta02 manufacturer is actually Openmoko Mar 27 21:34:15 no FIC printed on the case Mar 27 21:34:39 mickeyl: I thought he meant changed from MACHINE="om-gta01" to something else :-D Mar 27 21:34:55 kein ficen Mar 27 21:35:23 raster: is it done yet? Mar 27 21:35:30 raster: :D Mar 27 21:35:35 kein ficken? Mar 27 21:35:36 cb22: are your pants on? Mar 27 21:35:41 ick, not a big fan of german Mar 27 21:35:46 hard to learn Mar 27 21:36:02 * raster pfffts Mar 27 21:36:16 playya: well.. you may wish to say that. i did not. Mar 27 21:36:17 :) Mar 27 21:36:21 mickeyl: :) Mar 27 21:36:33 maybe I'm just a stupid american, i don't know. Or maybe it was my german prof was just bad Mar 27 21:36:47 * cb22 slaps summatusmentis with a metric stick Mar 27 21:37:21 raster, read iketenai-nippn - Nihonjin-n honto-no tokoro ? Mar 27 21:37:24 well, at least it's not as big as a ruler >_> Mar 27 21:37:43 s/nippn/nippon Mar 27 21:37:53 you left out your trailing slash Mar 27 21:38:40 s/s\/nippn\/nippon/s\/nippn\/nippon\/ Mar 27 21:38:54 you could just use a different delimeter Mar 27 21:39:05 like s|s/nippn/nippon|s/nippn/nippon/| Mar 27 21:39:12 :p Mar 27 21:39:19 ok Mar 27 21:40:18 i dont suppose anyone here has a gta01 nearby, that can connect to gprs, has mplayer installed, and they have a decent data plan? Mar 27 21:40:29 hmm Mar 27 21:40:33 no mplayer Mar 27 21:40:37 but yes to other things Mar 27 21:40:38 :P Mar 27 21:40:55 wanna see if my video streaming will work :D Mar 27 21:41:19 any instructions for mplayer install? Mar 27 21:41:26 or packages Mar 27 21:42:03 ipkg install mplayer? Mar 27 21:42:42 w00t! Mar 27 21:42:43 ahaa :P Mar 27 21:42:47 I has a image! Mar 27 21:45:40 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Mar 27 21:45:40 rootfs 61.1M 60.4M 756.0k 99% / Mar 27 21:45:44 cb22: url? :) Mar 27 21:45:49 hehe Mar 27 21:46:07 can you connect the moko to the web via gprs Mar 27 21:46:21 just a sec.. Mar 27 21:46:43 and then: mplayer -framedrop http://cb22.za.net/videos/me.mkv Mar 27 21:47:04 (im not sure what options are needed, if anyone else knows that some magic is needed, please interject now) Mar 27 21:47:09 could i join on my pc too :D Mar 27 21:47:31 playya: heh, feel free to. its a really low res video Mar 27 21:47:51 playya: ? Mar 27 21:49:14 very nice book about japaneses and their caracteristics from a german guy who lives in tokio for years Mar 27 21:49:31 and also published in japan Mar 27 21:50:06 mickeyl, yeah apparently Mar 27 21:50:28 mickeyl, the stock icon code in gtk+ is rather nasty Mar 27 21:51:04 mickeyl, and I don't think we actually need it for dialer anyway Mar 27 21:52:08 wooo! Mar 27 21:52:19 connection on retry #20?:P Mar 27 21:52:26 hehe Mar 27 21:52:45 playya: never read it. Mar 27 21:52:51 oh wait, it failed getting an IP :P Mar 27 21:53:43 really cool. just want to know if you can commit this. thought about going to japan some time ago. Mar 27 21:54:29 smart people: i cant remember who, i think it was mjr, said that gta01/2 is gprs multislot class 12, which means it would be able to use different upload / download slot configurations. can you change this? ie, use 4+1 when you want and 1+4 when you want? Mar 27 21:55:33 playya: can't commit - nor can i comment :) Mar 27 21:55:46 mickeyl, it'd be great to apply this profiling technique to openmoko-today though Mar 27 21:56:13 mickeyl, it's a shame we can't consolidate all these little tasks into a GSoC project Mar 27 21:56:27 hmm.. Mar 27 21:56:31 openmoko would've been good for ghop Mar 27 21:56:38 lots of little things to do Mar 27 21:56:39 cb22: can't remember how to stretch videos Mar 27 21:56:48 small image in the center of the screen Mar 27 21:56:52 but it is fluent Mar 27 21:56:52 ahven: yay :)) Mar 27 21:56:57 over gprs? Mar 27 21:57:11 yep Mar 27 21:57:17 :D :D :D :D :D Mar 27 21:57:41 thos: agreed. i'm actually a bit disappointed by the gsoc proposals Mar 27 21:57:51 it's about yakuza, swimming pools, ambulance, charges,... Mar 27 21:57:52 we should not have had a wiki page with ideas Mar 27 21:58:00 90% are just picking one Mar 27 21:58:03 not coming up with own ideas Mar 27 21:58:11 of what _they_ would like to work on for some months Mar 27 21:58:33 alas, google requires us to have a page with ideas. but this seems to limit peoples creativity :/ Mar 27 21:58:48 afaik the gta01 cant keep up if you scale it, but you can try adding -vf scale=320:240 Mar 27 21:59:04 it is h264 video after all Mar 27 21:59:22 worth a try :) Mar 27 21:59:45 i'm happy that it plays via gprs fluently :) Mar 27 22:00:17 mickeyl: You should have just put one crappy idea on there ;-) Mar 27 22:00:22 mickeyl, another task would be to make all applications translatable Mar 27 22:00:23 nothing like 30kbit/s h264 video with 12kbit/s vorbis audio Mar 27 22:02:05 :) Mar 27 22:02:27 yup video started to slow down Mar 27 22:02:33 when scaling Mar 27 22:03:23 yeah, i need to remember to remind XorA|gone tomorrow (today?) to give it a shot on the freerunner :) Mar 27 22:03:39 mickeyl: thats pretty normal. 90% of peolpe don't have a creative bone in their body :) Mar 27 22:04:08 mplayer .... -vf scale -sws 4 Mar 27 22:04:13 is scale fast badly Mar 27 22:05:52 hmm.. Mar 27 22:06:00 still a tiny screen in the center Mar 27 22:06:30 but is it slightly larger tha before? Mar 27 22:06:40 doesn't seem so Mar 27 22:06:50 anyone know how to resolve this problem when doing a "bitbake openmoko-devel-image"?: http://openmoko.pastebin.com/d341a4350 Mar 27 22:07:00 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: sample gtk-phone ..with foobar codeing style http://eric-weiss.de/trac/wiki/openmoko Mar 27 22:07:01 raster: yea, seems so. glad you are one of the gifted ones :) Mar 27 22:07:33 mickeyl: nah - just i have the creative bone Mar 27 22:07:34 oops Mar 27 22:07:41 mickeyl: what are you talking about? raster's just a programmer :p Mar 27 22:07:42 i dont want to just be taught the button to press Mar 27 22:07:42 mplayer .... -vf scale=320:240 -sws 4 Mar 27 22:07:48 or chose from a b or c Mar 27 22:07:52 i want to create the button Mar 27 22:07:57 and create "d" Mar 27 22:08:01 as i doesn't exist Mar 27 22:08:02 :) Mar 27 22:08:08 i would say "e" Mar 27 22:08:13 but anyways :p Mar 27 22:08:19 hahahaha Mar 27 22:08:21 :-P Mar 27 22:08:49 yay, no mplayer whining about slowdowns now Mar 27 22:08:51 <`pwgen`> *FG* om-gta01 .... OHMMMM Mar 27 22:09:11 <`pwgen`> eugeneoden: *FG* om-gta01 .... OHMMMM Mar 27 22:09:22 cb22: is it supposed to have audio as well? Mar 27 22:09:27 ahven: yep Mar 27 22:09:31 [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1099:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p failed: Device or resource busy Mar 27 22:09:37 thats why I didn't hear any Mar 27 22:09:44 pulseaudio blocking you? Mar 27 22:10:20 yep Mar 27 22:10:21 `pwgen`: thanks. should i update some docs? Mar 27 22:10:24 killed it and have sound :) Mar 27 22:10:36 sweet :) Mar 27 22:10:58 <`pwgen`> ahven: lsof /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p gives pulseaudio Mar 27 22:11:16 now, i just need to get off my lazy ass, right down all the commands i used, and write the python transcoding server :p Mar 27 22:11:41 then, i need to write the openmoko part Mar 27 22:11:46 1618 root 20 0 20348 8400 4040 R 78.4 6.7 1:07.24 mplayer Mar 27 22:11:46 1199 root 19 -1 10744 6368 3552 S 16.4 5.0 0:56.00 Xfbdev Mar 27 22:11:51 avarage usage Mar 27 22:13:23 hmm, do you think the neo would be able to play 320x240, mpeg4 video, mp3 audio flv files at decent speeds? Mar 27 22:13:29 ie, unencoded youtube videos Mar 27 22:13:45 possibly Mar 27 22:13:48 cb22: what are you planning? Mar 27 22:14:03 edistar: openmoko youtube video player Mar 27 22:14:19 cb22: cool... good idea Mar 27 22:14:46 edistar: but not just normal videos, you will also be able to run a transcoding server on your home adsl line, so you could watch videos via gprs Mar 27 22:15:30 ahven: btw, thanks a _huge_ amount for playing :) Mar 27 22:15:41 how does the iPhone do it? Surely youtube stores lower res versions already? Mar 27 22:15:50 yeah, but the iphone has edge Mar 27 22:16:28 gprs tops out at 80kb max, edge at 240kb Mar 27 22:16:52 cb22: so you also make a script that enables private streaming from the home server to neo? Mar 27 22:16:57 yeah Mar 27 22:17:10 cool Mar 27 22:17:27 (it will only really be useful if you have a good data plan though) Mar 27 22:17:37 if you pay $1 per meg, eh, not for you :p Mar 27 22:17:44 3GB is pretty much for GPRS :) Mar 27 22:18:01 ahven: add 2gb, and thats my limit for my adsl Mar 27 22:18:15 ~6.5¤ per month Mar 27 22:18:30 $40 a month Mar 27 22:18:41 ouch Mar 27 22:18:57 indeed :( Mar 27 22:19:45 internet would cost me ~20¤...if I wouldn't work in an ISP company :) Mar 27 22:19:57 I pay $120/month for my cable and internet Mar 27 22:20:04 but I get 1.2MB/s down Mar 27 22:20:05 jadams: holy fuck Mar 27 22:20:12 steady Mar 27 22:20:13 oh, that's better Mar 27 22:20:15 yeah Mar 27 22:20:27 I'm a principal at a software company, lead developer, so yeah Mar 27 22:20:30 I needs mah pipe Mar 27 22:20:45 don't have any real use for those speeds :) Mar 27 22:20:47 i have 0.5mbit/s :( Mar 27 22:21:00 cool to have but not cool to pay for it :) Mar 27 22:21:08 I have to push / pull GB to and from work regularly Mar 27 22:21:21 oh, and my company pays for it...but that's basically the same as me paying for it Mar 27 22:21:23 just pre-tax :) Mar 27 22:21:27 Well, I haven't hit anything that my 40MBps wasn't good enough for, except backups Mar 27 22:21:37 and they happen in the background, so who cares Mar 27 22:21:55 jadams: yep, pre-tax is a good thing in overall :) Mar 27 22:21:59 same for me w/ my 40MB (my corp pays for it) Mar 27 22:23:01 but I still don't wanna pay $120 for it each month :-) Mar 27 22:23:19 cbrake_away: it can play 'normal' VCD class 25-30FPS videos at most of full rate - without any optimisation. Mar 27 22:23:42 strange Mar 27 22:23:48 mplayer doesn't read my input.conf Mar 27 22:26:50 ahaa Mar 27 22:26:54 usr/etc Mar 27 22:27:15 but still, the local .mplayer/input.conf is not parsed Mar 27 22:31:07 btw cb22, mplayer @ neo has already framedrop usage configured in Mar 27 22:31:10 just a notice :) Mar 27 22:31:42 ah ok :) i dont have a neo, so i wouldnt know :( Mar 27 22:31:49 is it april yet? Mar 27 22:31:54 almost Mar 27 22:32:29 * SpeedEvil ponders the early-april tradition. Mar 27 22:33:18 ah, simple usage for mplayer - 1 click = pause Mar 27 22:33:22 doubleclick = quit Mar 27 22:33:23 :) Mar 27 22:33:42 if it starts to read from my configs, that is.. Mar 27 22:34:57 works fine at my computer Mar 27 22:34:59 is no gui package manager available for OM? Mar 27 22:35:23 there is Mar 27 22:35:51 ah great. not worked much with it because it is very slow in qemu Mar 27 22:35:55 does it work? Mar 27 22:36:09 yep Mar 27 22:36:18 though I prefer the shell :) Mar 27 22:36:19 wow, wanna port it to angstrom? Mar 27 22:45:13 yay, it works as I like it Mar 27 22:50:09 hmm... Mar 27 22:50:29 does mplayer have _everything_ compiled into 1 binary, except configuration? Mar 27 22:50:45 pretty much Mar 27 22:50:48 mplayer sucks :] Mar 27 22:51:20 what's better than it, then? :) Mar 27 22:51:39 Clearly mjr just wrote a much better media player. Mar 27 22:51:49 lol Mar 27 22:54:15 SpeedEvil: cool! another one of us :) Mar 27 22:55:07 * SpeedEvil is actually writing a limited media player. Mar 27 22:55:52 Though it's for ARM7. Mar 27 22:56:40 i wrote one for all architectures - i prefer to keep it usable everywhere :) Mar 27 22:56:51 why only arm7? Mar 27 22:57:13 raster: It's $5 Mar 27 22:57:26 ummmmm Mar 27 22:57:34 as opposed to $4? Mar 27 22:58:08 raster: It turns out that to make a camera, I think I can use a camera module and 2 other commodity chips (including the CPU) Mar 27 22:58:55 raster: of course, this means I need a JPEG compressor which works with 20K of RAM for 2MP - But fun. Mar 27 22:59:08 (I have lots of slow RAM) Mar 27 22:59:36 mmm 20k Mar 27 23:00:49 is there an easy way to force mplayer to play in mono? Mar 27 23:01:00 ahven: I think not - other than a filter. Mar 27 23:01:16 ah, with -af Mar 27 23:01:26 but the cpu load would be the same Mar 27 23:01:57 I suspect you'd need to write a special filter. Mar 27 23:02:04 that goes from colorspace Y Mar 27 23:02:13 V12 or whatever just to RGB (well - grey) Mar 27 23:03:12 or even better also ignores all u and v plane decoding to improve performance Mar 27 23:03:23 AND sets the screen to be in 8bpp paletted Mar 27 23:03:42 and sets up the plaette to match the y range in greyscale... Mar 27 23:03:59 I was trying to avoid messing with the decoder Mar 27 23:04:11 the right way is indeed to have a decoder that ignores color. Mar 27 23:04:20 But then - in that case the right way is not to encode color. Mar 27 23:05:53 hehehe Mar 27 23:06:25 SpeedEvil: I assume he meant "mono" as in "not stereo" ;) Mar 27 23:06:55 yep, I'm still puzzled of this conversation :) Mar 27 23:06:58 abraxa__: there you go. Mar 27 23:07:11 abraxa__: you'll just get into trouble with that logic of yours. Mar 27 23:07:53 I'll take the risk. I need some thrill in my life. Mar 27 23:11:05 hehe Mar 27 23:11:22 it runs faster in stereo than in mono :P Mar 27 23:11:35 video* Mar 27 23:11:41 It's doing it wrong. Mar 27 23:12:01 It's decoding the stereo, chopping off one channel, then expanding it back out to two probably. Mar 27 23:12:09 probably yes Mar 27 23:14:48 * SpeedEvil wonders why xpdf opens the audio device. Mar 27 23:57:29 i just wrote to community@lists.openmoko.org about 1 ago. it appears in my gmail send folder but not on the list. Mar 27 23:58:04 an i'm subscribed to the list. am i an idiot? Mar 27 23:59:01 Depends Mar 27 23:59:17 If you wrote 1 second ago, I wouldn't worry ;) Mar 27 23:59:29 1 h. sorry Mar 27 23:59:43 and i wrote nothing about viagra Mar 28 00:00:19 playya: Maybe it's lagging again, it does that sometimes (don't ask me why) Mar 28 00:03:27 ok Mar 28 00:03:37 have a look tomorow on it Mar 28 00:03:39 good night Mar 28 00:56:03 :) /me found his 4G microSD. Mar 28 00:56:19 I'd put it in my picture frame to test that. Mar 28 01:10:30 openmoko: 03andrew * r4262 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: Update buildhost image download paths one more time - patch from Marco Trevisan (TreviƱo). Mar 28 01:10:47 geez, he's sleeping again? Mar 28 01:34:37 Ok. Mar 28 01:34:47 * SpeedEvil is having trouble with his new microSD. Mar 28 01:45:19 where do I get information about the raw SD device? Mar 28 01:45:56 Gah Mar 28 01:45:59 * SpeedEvil is stupid. Mar 28 01:46:28 I was looking for something of 512M, and my eye was skipping the 4G line Mar 28 01:47:46 hehe Mar 28 01:54:43 Hmm. New microSD is faster than old in neo. Mar 28 01:54:49 5m to write 1G Mar 28 01:54:53 err Mar 28 01:54:54 read Mar 28 02:25:45 Interesting - 5m read, 6m write (of 1G on microSD) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 28 02:59:57 2008