**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 28 02:59:57 2008 Mar 28 03:08:59 Oh. I was going to complain, then I realised my build ran out of disk. Mar 28 03:31:58 I was looking at the wiki for the contacts application...is this part of the openmoko framework? Mar 28 03:32:07 where can I get this source to poke around? Mar 28 03:32:32 is it part of libmokopim? Mar 28 03:34:40 where the UI's shown there simply wireframe mockups or do these UIs already exist in some form? Mar 28 03:35:53 hi everybody Mar 28 03:36:07 i am a GSoC enthusiast Mar 28 03:36:24 is a mentor available here Mar 28 03:36:26 is openmoko using GTK or Enlightenment? the mockups/screenshots all look like e17, but the info looks like Gtk Mar 28 03:36:39 ashish, I've been looking for one as well Mar 28 03:37:08 dcode: are the mentors for openmoko not assigned till now Mar 28 03:37:10 Isn't Enlightenment a window manager? I'm pretty sure Openmoko uses GTK Mar 28 03:37:38 dcode: which project you are trying for Mar 28 03:37:48 openmoko uses GTk Mar 28 03:38:15 ashish, I was interested in porting OM to the EZX devices...I have two...but can't seem to find any information or anyone that knows anything about it Mar 28 03:39:02 bostonvaulter, Enlightenment is a window manager, but the underlying libraries are actually well suited to embedded development Mar 28 03:39:26 oh, interesting. Mar 28 03:39:26 the screenshots / mockups look like they use the default EFL themes Mar 28 03:42:52 same here Mar 28 03:43:07 i wanted to work on Bluetooth remote Mar 28 03:43:22 that module in openmoko use GTK Mar 28 03:43:34 so i suppose other will use the same too Mar 28 03:44:48 the other think I'm interested in is developing the contacts application....I've got some pretty neat ideas...not all that could be accomplished in the SoC timeframe Mar 28 03:45:00 but if I get it working on my phone, I'd run with it Mar 28 03:47:33 where is OM in the dev roadmap? 2007.2? Mar 28 03:47:52 is 2007.2 complete or in progress? Mar 28 04:14:13 I WANT ME MINI COMPUTER Mar 28 04:25:20 hallo moko Mar 28 04:29:15 hi holycow Mar 28 04:46:37 is the current contacts, calendar, etc the port from openhanded's pimlico? Mar 28 05:02:34 Arg! i want a GTA02 :( Mar 28 05:03:14 any way of getting one early if i volunteer to work on the OS or something Mar 28 05:03:40 sure, send $5000 to a developer.. they'll be sure to send you one Mar 28 05:03:48 then you don't need to work on the OS ;-) Mar 28 05:03:53 lol Mar 28 05:04:12 annnnd... if you *were* working on the OS and you make tons of amazing commits, etc.. i doubt you'd pay for one at all ;-) Mar 28 05:04:26 you can run the platform in an emulated device Mar 28 05:04:47 is that what most are doing then Mar 28 05:05:04 a lot of us got GTA01 to hack around on Mar 28 05:05:45 but, if you don't have a device.. you can still develop with the qemu target Mar 28 05:06:02 hmm Mar 28 05:08:49 have some resources you could point me to? Mar 28 05:08:58 I can find the repo Mar 28 05:09:27 daMaestro Mar 28 05:11:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Running_Openmoko_on_PC Mar 28 05:11:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_under_QEMU Mar 28 05:15:57 qemu is wicked slow Mar 28 05:16:45 thanks for the links Mar 28 05:18:45 yeah, emulating that much hardware is not fun.. esp. MIPS <-> ARM Mar 28 05:21:41 is there a todo list Mar 28 05:22:49 other than scraping the bug list Mar 28 06:04:39 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r100 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (102 files in 7 dirs): * Initial commit Mar 28 06:35:08 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r101 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/test/gsmd_common.py: Fixed test after changing the name of the binary Mar 28 06:35:49 gsmd2 :) Mar 28 06:40:20 pkgconfig, and pkg-config locations have changed in the recent build Mar 28 06:42:34 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r102 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Serial refactoring that was accidentally left out of initial commit Mar 28 06:43:38 i am getting this error while building its latest image uImage-2.6.24+svnr4194-r4251-r5-om-gta01.bin CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/libmokoui2 Mar 28 06:43:38 cc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362 Mar 28 06:43:38 Please submit a full bug report, Mar 28 06:43:38 with preprocessed source if appropriate. Mar 28 06:43:38 See for instructions. Mar 28 06:44:00 how to fix it Mar 28 06:45:01 jitu3485: thats really odd, libmokoui2 seems to build for most people Mar 28 06:46:31 XorA should i change the libmokoui2 to another directory Mar 28 06:47:09 jitu3485: you should probably paste the full failure log, but I dont think Ill have time to help, I leave for airport in a few minutes Mar 28 06:48:03 fine ,happy journey Mar 28 06:48:13 XorA fine ,happy journey Mar 28 07:07:52 error while building openmoko latest release detailed errror on this url URL: http://rafb.net/p/YIZ8ys44.html Mar 28 07:14:08 jitu3485, it is an error while cross-compiling; your build is complete Mar 28 07:39:37 good morning Mar 28 08:06:27 Hopscotch, good morning Mar 28 08:06:43 hrrm Mar 28 08:15:51 i am running /home/root/gllin/gllin, and it exits with "test_cmd_receive_count = 0" "gllin: early_exit(3) in halInit()/681" "Stacks ize 8864 bytes (9 KB)" Mar 28 08:31:48 morning Mar 28 08:33:43 morning Mar 28 08:56:42 can anyone else build python-edbus Mar 28 09:02:17 ScaredyCat, Feb 27 build is complete Mar 28 09:02:31 ScaredyCat, are you doing a new build? Mar 28 09:02:38 yes.. Mar 28 09:08:05 hi Mar 28 09:09:34 i wrote a mail to community@lists.openmoko.org and i'm subscribed to this list Mar 28 09:10:10 but it never landed in my inbox. it is in the sent folder of gmail. Mar 28 09:12:34 well, mailman is a smart guy :) Mar 28 09:17:14 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4263 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: remove about openmoko window (Erin Yueh) Mar 28 09:19:12 anyone can help with gllin? Mar 28 09:30:16 mbuf, whats the matter? Mar 28 09:30:55 mbuf: shure... :) Mar 28 09:34:35 mbuf: u are using named-pipe and nobody is reading from it... Mar 28 09:35:29 mbuf: i recommend not to use that and instead read the udp output from gllin which is the only stable way to use gllin imho Mar 28 09:36:01 mbuf: that needs a udp reader in gpsd or gypsi. pygpsd has that for that matter Mar 28 09:49:38 any estimates on freerunner happening in april? Mar 28 09:50:45 see the community mailing list Mar 28 10:07:50 josch, emdete hi; Mar 28 10:08:28 josch, emdete this one --> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-March/002303.html Mar 28 10:09:20 hmpf Mar 28 10:09:30 why would one mount that? hm, did you read what i wrote? Mar 28 10:09:56 resend the mail. but it seems the list doesn't want me to participate in SoC Mar 28 10:10:52 emdete, wrote where? Mar 28 10:11:01 mbuf: here. Mar 28 10:11:11 mbuf: at 10:30 Mar 28 10:11:30 (hi everybody) just one quick question: Freerunner won't be usable as a phone in Japan or Korea, will it? Mar 28 10:14:15 emdete, sorry, i might have missed it; but, do you have a log? how to check IRC time status on X-Chat? Mar 28 10:15:15 mbuf: u are using named-pipe and nobody is reading from it... i recommend not to use that and instead read the udp output from gllin which is the only stable way to use gllin imho. that needs a udp reader in gpsd or gypsi. pygpsd has that for that matter. Mar 28 10:15:20 options->text window-> timestamp Mar 28 10:17:48 i am sorry to insist: do you know if there is any plan for any version of freerunner to support non-gsm phone networks? (i think this is what they have in japan and corea). Mar 28 10:18:27 jordi__: perhaps its better to ask on a ml Mar 28 10:18:34 ok thanks Mar 28 10:19:15 ScaredyCat: is the latest openmoko image stable enough? Mar 28 10:19:24 jordi__: sry, but everything i could say would be a guess Mar 28 10:20:30 plus i have a question: is there any reason for not running the dialer in background by default? Mar 28 10:20:47 the dialer should be very quick to start Mar 28 10:26:43 whats up guys? Mar 28 10:26:54 hows things in openmoko land? anyone written any amazing apps for it yet? Mar 28 10:30:58 bedboi: seems good.. Mar 28 10:31:12 although I ran out of credit on my payg sim.. Mar 28 10:31:25 put the wife's contract one in at it's all ok Mar 28 10:33:25 no news? Mar 28 10:33:36 what's the battery life time now? Mar 28 10:33:39 still 5 hours? Mar 28 10:33:42 still poor Mar 28 10:34:06 iirc there's been some talk of making the dailer part of today.. Mar 28 10:34:32 but yes, starting the dialer by default might be useful.. Mar 28 10:35:16 although I suspect it would bring the dialer window to the front at boot... Mar 28 10:35:19 * ScaredyCat will test Mar 28 10:53:53 bedboi: it's fairly easy to do... Mar 28 10:53:59 theres a caveat Mar 28 10:54:10 ScaredyCat: it seems that the home view is started in a window... Mar 28 10:54:15 in the latest image Mar 28 10:54:31 is it a known issue? Mar 28 10:55:06 just had an idea, how about a pie chart that shows what apps are consuming how much cpu resources, this way users can see if an app they have running is sucking their battery dry Mar 28 10:55:35 bedboi: all sorted....! Mar 28 10:55:37 cat .Xsession Mar 28 10:55:38 /usr/bin/openmoko-dialer & Mar 28 10:55:40 /usr/bin/x-window-manager Mar 28 10:55:47 yep Mar 28 10:57:20 the problem is... Mar 28 10:57:29 when you click the dialer button Mar 28 10:57:38 it starts another Mar 28 10:58:48 emdete, sorry, what was your message regaridng GPS at 1030 ? Mar 28 11:05:16 !logs Mar 28 11:05:18 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Mar 28 11:05:18 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Mar 28 11:05:20 Live-logs are available at Mar 28 11:05:21 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Mar 28 11:05:23 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Mar 28 11:10:22 mbuf: at 11:15 i repeated everything. oups, sorry, 11:15 local time MET Mar 28 11:12:55 what are the rules for mailing to the MLs? Mar 28 11:13:20 subscribed [checked] correct email [checked] Mar 28 11:28:58 emdete, ok found from the log; ned to read the udp output from gllin Mar 28 11:29:02 *need Mar 28 11:29:59 mbuf: a gypsy plugin for udp would be what the community would urgently need :) Mar 28 11:30:19 emdete, but, how is the community currently using gllin? Mar 28 11:31:16 mbuf: to be earnest: i dont know. i use it with my pygpsd, others probably do wild restarts with gsmd to keep both running on the named pipe Mar 28 11:31:42 mbuf: nothing with the named pipe is reliable so i just implemented pygpsd Mar 28 11:31:52 emdete, i see Mar 28 11:32:24 emdete, where can i get and use pygpsd? Mar 28 11:33:06 mbuf: problem with pygpsd is that there is only one frontend using it: pylgrim. i will soon follow gypsy's api to support other guis also Mar 28 11:33:16 emdete, i see Mar 28 11:33:34 emdete, from where can i get more documentation on this gypsi API? Mar 28 11:34:22 mbuf: see http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/pylgrim and svn://projects.linuxtogo.org/svn/smartphones/trunk/software/pyneod Mar 28 11:34:38 i sep up Host-based development with Xoo on my Pc .when i configure openmoko-dialer2 using ./configure i got error Mar 28 11:34:39 mbuf: ah, sry. that was pygpsd. Mar 28 11:35:15 http://rafb.net/p/hGlVpj92.html this link contains error message Mar 28 11:35:20 http://folks.o-hand.com/iain/gypsy/ Mar 28 11:35:27 any one can help me Mar 28 11:37:37 mohan, it says "No package 'alsa' found" Mar 28 11:38:25 can i proceed next step Mar 28 11:39:11 emdete, gpysy is available for OM? Mar 28 11:39:29 its contained in oe as far as i know Mar 28 11:39:35 emdete, i see Mar 28 11:41:08 mbuf: you would be the hero of the localized gta01 world if you build a udp reader for gypsy ;) Mar 28 11:42:22 emdete, everyone is a hero here? Mar 28 11:42:50 mbuf: eeee.., no. only udp receiver writer ;) Mar 28 11:43:12 emdete, udp reader reads from GPS device and passes it to pygpsd? and all location-aware applications take it from pygpsd? Mar 28 11:43:29 after that when i run $sudo make .it tells make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. Mar 28 11:43:46 mbuf: no, that is already dne. pygpsd has a udp reader already. gypsy is missing one Mar 28 11:43:54 emdete, ok Mar 28 11:44:14 mbuf: the community does not like py in daemons so gypsy is preferred Mar 28 11:44:26 emdete, i see Mar 28 11:48:44 I can i have other informations on mythtv task? Mar 28 11:49:06 are ther related project? Mar 28 12:08:10 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r103 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Mar 28 12:08:10 freesmartphone.org: Renamed PATH examples Mar 28 12:08:10 freesmartphone.org: Added stub functions for most dbus api methods Mar 28 12:11:31 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r104 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/src/ (device.c sim.c sim.h): Adding missing function stubs. Mar 28 12:11:42 Starting the nested OpenMoko on this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr.i can't understand ,please any one can help me Mar 28 12:13:39 ooh. gsmd2 is in the fs.o repos? Mar 28 12:14:15 where i have to copy the script and how to run it Mar 28 12:16:45 mohan, you can copy the script anywhere Mar 28 12:16:56 ok then Mar 28 12:17:06 how to run it Mar 28 12:18:08 i dont see any scripts per se in that link...those are just sources from the svn....the usual, autogen.sh, make applies Mar 28 12:19:38 how to open openmoko applicaton on xoo Mar 28 12:19:54 i installed it now Mar 28 12:20:33 but i don't know how to run it Mar 28 12:20:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr#Starting_the_nested_OpenMoko Mar 28 12:20:36 ? Mar 28 12:20:43 just run the script Mar 28 12:20:54 ok Mar 28 12:21:00 sh Mar 28 12:21:01 i will do it Mar 28 12:21:08 thanks Mar 28 12:23:54 uhm, i havent really looked on the mailing list or the wiki (or here for that matter) in a while, been busy. What's the expected release date the v4 (or is it v5?) hardware revision :o Mar 28 12:25:13 flexd, see topic Mar 28 12:25:37 gta02 is now called the freerunner Mar 28 12:25:51 can i read somewhere, maybe on some forums, what has the a780 in common with the software on the FIC, maybe...do you think i can do something for ya ;-) Mar 28 12:26:12 do you use openezx? Mar 28 12:29:23 I-MOD: that i knew Mar 28 12:29:29 i was thinking hardware revisions. Mar 28 12:29:43 ooh april Mar 28 12:29:47 thats almost soon Mar 28 12:29:52 better not be first april :o Mar 28 12:30:05 iirc, they're playing with gta02v5 prototypes right now, but my memory could be off Mar 28 12:31:07 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r105 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/ (12 files in 5 dirs): gsm0710muxd: clean up buildsystem, remove initialization, fix make dist, prepare for 0.9.0 release Mar 28 12:31:40 mickeyl: does OM need gsmd still done? for does spyre's work make that unnecessary as a GSoC project? Mar 28 12:31:53 i can't comment on that now Mar 28 12:31:58 i have yet to look into gsmd2 Mar 28 12:32:10 besides Mar 28 12:32:16 i have not seen a phone project in GSoC Mar 28 12:32:26 all i have seen were deviced proposals Mar 28 12:32:28 (no telephony) Mar 28 12:32:39 please remember there's a difference between ophoned and odeviced Mar 28 12:32:42 right, that's what I'm asking it, is it worth submitting a phone project? Mar 28 12:32:43 completely different projects Mar 28 12:32:52 summatusmentis: to be honest, i don't know Mar 28 12:33:06 i need to evaluate all the options Mar 28 12:33:11 fair enough Mar 28 12:33:35 (I've just got a couple of days, could potentially still submit for ophoned as well) Mar 28 12:34:07 yeah Mar 28 12:38:33 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r106 10/releases/ (. gsm0710muxd-0.9.0.tar.gz): add 0.9.0 release tarball Mar 28 12:48:03 summatusmentis, fyi, gsmd2 is in the fs.o svn now Mar 28 12:52:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r107 10/tags/ (. gsm0710muxd-0.9.0/): tag gsm0710muxd 0.9.0 Mar 28 12:58:13 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r108 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Mar 28 12:58:13 freesmartphone.org: Implemented Initiate_Fail test Mar 28 12:58:13 freesmartphone.org: Implemented minimal dbus error stuff Mar 28 13:14:29 hi, is there going to be album art in the freerunner when its released and will it use the same ui as 1973? Mar 28 13:15:08 it will use the same UI as all effort went into hardware for the last months Mar 28 13:15:21 further software updates will change lots of things on the UI level Mar 28 13:17:01 cool Mar 28 13:17:58 and once mickeyl accepts me for GSoC, I'll get started on 'further software updates' :-D Mar 28 13:18:28 heh Mar 28 13:18:38 i'm just one of a bunch of mentors Mar 28 13:18:48 -< little influence Mar 28 13:18:56 yeah, I know, and I'm just kidding Mar 28 13:19:21 little influence? really? Any question that ever gets asked about GSoC here gets directed to you, you're well respected Mar 28 13:19:24 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r109 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Renamed vendor to match actual modem model Mar 28 13:19:56 :) Mar 28 13:32:52 summatusmentis: The other mentors just avoid public exposure *coughs* Mar 28 13:33:05 lol, so as not to be pesterd constantly? Mar 28 13:33:33 Yeah, mickey gets pestered either way so it's not like has a choice ;) Mar 28 13:33:44 I guess that's true Mar 28 13:38:03 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r110 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (src/modem.c test/Makefile.am): Fix make check to work without installing Mar 28 13:38:18 mickeyl: python-edbus ... is it me or is it broken?? Mar 28 13:39:25 * ScaredyCat marvels at using make to run init scripts Mar 28 13:39:54 ScaredyCat: probably you Mar 28 13:39:59 how's it breaking? Mar 28 13:40:01 :( Mar 28 13:40:42 it's the .pc file Mar 28 13:40:48 says it can't locate it Mar 28 13:41:20 hmm, there have been tons of changes over the last two weeks Mar 28 13:41:22 i'll have a go Mar 28 13:41:27 what's your EFL_SRCDATE ? Mar 28 13:42:21 http://pastebin.ca/960784 Mar 28 13:42:23 errm... Mar 28 13:42:51 ah Mar 28 13:42:55 it's actually not finding dbus-python Mar 28 13:43:28 my build is running Mar 28 13:43:32 we'll see soon Mar 28 13:43:54 yes, dbus-python... what did i say.. Mar 28 13:43:59 oh... Mar 28 13:44:00 yes.. Mar 28 13:44:10 ed's bus... Mar 28 13:44:28 * ScaredyCat giggles Mar 28 13:44:55 * abraxa_ turns ScaredyCat into GigglyCat Mar 28 13:47:20 how can i check that pygpsd.py is running in the background? Mar 28 13:48:50 ps -ef? Mar 28 13:48:54 ps -aux | grep pygpsd Mar 28 13:49:01 ah well, not necessarily Mar 28 13:49:07 pyneod runs them in one process Mar 28 13:49:17 yoink! Mar 28 13:49:26 might need to enable the debug out Mar 28 13:50:54 "root 1228 1224 1 01:48 ? 00:00:01 matchbox-panel-2 --start-applets systray,startup --end-applets openmoko-panel-battery,openmoko-panel-gsm,openmoko-panel-gps,openmoko-panel-usb,openmoko-panel-bt,openmoko-panel-memory,keyboard --titlebar" Mar 28 13:50:59 is that correct? Mar 28 13:54:19 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r111 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Mar 28 13:54:19 freesmartphone.org: Modied tests that they make sure async calls return Mar 28 13:54:19 freesmartphone.org: Added dbus method replies to gsmd2. Mar 28 13:54:49 mickeyl, ScaredyCat neod is the daemon that is run by pyneod.py ? Mar 28 13:55:54 no, these are different things Mar 28 13:56:00 neod is the device daemon in the gtk environment Mar 28 13:56:08 pyneod is a replacement from the moko underground os Mar 28 13:56:29 mbuf: pyneod.py is a plugin-wrapper around some py???d.py. one is pygsmd, another pygpsd... Mar 28 13:56:41 mickeyl, is it integrated with the build environment, or do i have to install it separately? my version is 200803131743 Mar 28 13:57:20 emdete, just checked out svn://projects.linuxtogo.org/svn/smartphones/trunk/software ; going through it Mar 28 13:57:58 mbuf: if you just want to play around / test you may start every single daemon in the command line Mar 28 13:58:51 emdete, from ps -ef output, i don't see a pygpsd entry; how can i use it; i would like to first get data from pygpsd, (raw text); then i can look into gypsy-daemon? Mar 28 13:59:01 *how can i use it? Mar 28 13:59:06 mbuf: no, its plugged into pyneod.py Mar 28 13:59:17 perhaps it's not enabled Mar 28 13:59:21 mbuf: you see the log in /var/log/messages Mar 28 13:59:27 emdete, mickeyl ok Mar 28 13:59:46 mbuf: also take a look into /etc/pyneod.ini - the sections enable each daemon Mar 28 14:00:10 bitbake -c rebuild moko-underground-image Mar 28 14:00:21 emdete, there is no /var/log/messages Mar 28 14:00:46 coredump Mar 28 14:01:00 sry, that can't be ;) Mar 28 14:01:26 logread -f Mar 28 14:02:43 mbuf: what does your /etc/syslog.conf say? Mar 28 14:04:07 emdete, http://rafb.net/p/ajUJTR14.html Mar 28 14:05:21 mbuf: see line 5... Mar 28 14:06:05 emdete, yes, but, the file doesn't exist; do you want me to create it? Mar 28 14:06:56 mbuf: don't care - just use the command mickeyl mentioned Mar 28 14:07:06 emdete, ok Mar 28 14:38:02 qq Mar 28 14:42:21 can the accelerometeres detect if the phone is ace up or face down on a table? Mar 28 14:43:18 Ask SpeedEvil ;) Mar 28 14:43:30 * mwester perks up his ears to listen for the answer to that question, too Mar 28 14:43:38 !SpeedEvil can the accelerometeres detect if the phone is ace up or face down on a table? Mar 28 14:44:17 I would think so, isn't that the point? Mar 28 14:45:01 i think they can - IIRC they detect where 'down' is rather decently Mar 28 14:45:06 raster: you probably don't know this, are there debian packages for e17? Mar 28 14:45:11 * mwester wants a simple feature that switches the ringer to vibrate-only if face-down, and the GPS says we're at work, or the wifi says that a specific wireless AP is nearby, indicating that we're in the executive conference room, for example. Mar 28 14:45:28 mwester: you seen the latest mails on community? Mar 28 14:45:52 mwester: all of that makes sense, except, I don't understand why you'd want it to know if it was face down Mar 28 14:46:11 summatusmentis: its a kickass way to shut up your phone Mar 28 14:46:19 lol, oh Mar 28 14:46:40 i'm completely lost on the gps deamon choices front. I see gpsd is bad and needs to be abandoned. But what else? gypsy, pyneod? pypsy looks very pleasing. I was just about to make a navit plugin for that, but then i found out it lacks udp support for gllin as far as i can see it. Is there yet any conclusion which way to go? The gps situation is currently just awfull (gpsd initscript, crappy gllin wrapper script, nmea pipe...) Mar 28 14:47:23 summatusmentis: When the meeting starts, I turn the phone face down -- face up at break time to permit it to ring. Mar 28 14:48:12 I have currently no build system running. But i would be glad if i could do something to improve the situation... Mar 28 14:48:26 i am working on a dbus server process that will let u know the distance from other users....can use to set alerts etc if user in certain distance Mar 28 14:48:32 mwester: that's cool Mar 28 14:48:43 how many other phones have accelerometers? iPhone? Mar 28 14:49:42 zedstar: That should be integrated into the ringer as well -- so that my phone does not ring if I'm speaking with my boss, but it *always* rings 2 minutes after a very annoying co-worker comes nearby, and stays near... :D Mar 28 14:50:13 mwester: well yeh others can write other dbus utils.....is the kewl thing about dbus Mar 28 14:50:16 DPThought: If I were you I'd ask emdete what he has planned - patching gypsy with UDP support, completing pygpsd or whatever else Mar 28 14:50:20 mine is just gonna handle distance Mar 28 14:50:56 summatusmentis: since the iphone unveiling some have picked up the idea. But not many. :) - yet Mar 28 14:51:40 DPThought: I see Mar 28 14:51:58 summatusmentis: ummm..... i belive in experimental - or will be soon Mar 28 14:52:18 experimental != unstable, iirc? Mar 28 14:52:28 correct Mar 28 14:52:44 :-/ Mar 28 14:52:46 ok Mar 28 14:52:58 experimental is one more step away from stable Mar 28 14:53:30 woohoo, 3/27's 1973 image sounds like a big improvement Mar 28 14:53:42 it's nice to see those contact list changes go in Mar 28 14:55:05 OK, what is up with the "My area too is poorly mapped." message on the mailing list? I swear I've seen 15 copies of it or more Mar 28 14:57:45 ScaredyCat: fyi: you were right, there was a pkgconfig missing in python-dbus. fixed and commited. thanks! Mar 28 14:57:50 make that 25 or more; just finished reading my community digests Mar 28 14:58:06 :) Mar 28 15:02:03 wurp2: heh, i agree. Mar 28 15:05:28 ScaredyCat: there? Mar 28 15:05:44 aye Mar 28 15:06:16 ScaredyCat: in your latest image, the openmoko "home" (i don't remember the name of the application) seems to run in a window Mar 28 15:06:23 plus no status bar is present Mar 28 15:06:52 hrmm.. Mar 28 15:06:59 seems odd... that's on mine here... Mar 28 15:07:11 can you put a screenshot on scap ? Mar 28 15:08:04 bedboi: That's a fairly common hiccup in X on the 1973 for me Mar 28 15:08:10 bedboi: Regardless of the build Mar 28 15:08:44 you mean like there's no gtkrc ? Mar 28 15:08:48 bedboi: I will start up some app, or shut down the screen lock, and everything moves into a window, usually a cursor appears, and the status bar goes away Mar 28 15:08:49 blue window? Mar 28 15:09:01 (title bar) Mar 28 15:09:03 yep Mar 28 15:09:08 that's it Mar 28 15:09:11 matchbox Mar 28 15:09:16 the default one Mar 28 15:09:44 I always have to restart the neo :-( Mar 28 15:10:05 bedboi: Screenshot please :) Mar 28 15:10:09 If I have network access to it I can just restart x, but I usually don't have that access Mar 28 15:10:35 I really need to get my shit together and start submitting bug reports :-) Mar 28 15:10:54 can you ssh in and do : /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart Mar 28 15:11:23 mickey_away: monotone.om dead? Mar 28 15:11:39 openmoko: 03werner * r4264 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/config.gta02v5: config.gta02v5: updated for new uImage and rootfs name change ("fic" to "om") Mar 28 15:12:57 ScaredyCat: yep,btw i have to wait, the battery is completely drained (as always) Mar 28 15:15:37 cb22: Maybe we're the only ones getting the mails as digests... Mar 28 15:28:43 openmoko: 03thomas * r4265 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Mar 28 15:28:43 openmoko: 2008-03-28 Thomas Wood Mar 28 15:28:43 openmoko: * src/sms-compose.c: (page_shown), (sms_compose_page_new): Mar 28 15:28:43 openmoko: * src/sms-contacts.c: (contacts_changed_cb), (contacts_removed_cb), Mar 28 15:28:43 openmoko: (contacts_seq_complete_cb), (free_iter_slice), Mar 28 15:28:47 openmoko: (nophoto_filter_func), (contacts_iter_compare_func), Mar 28 15:28:49 openmoko: (contacts_visible_func), (malloc_list_free), Mar 28 15:37:21 hm, i have just installed tangogps with opkg install -d card but ipkg-link add tangogps does not find the package to link it to root Mar 28 15:38:44 oh, if i install it with ipkg it works. First time i have any incompatibilities with opkg to ipkg Mar 28 15:51:44 ~curse pth_2.0.2.bb Mar 28 15:51:45 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, pth_2.0.2.bb ! Mar 28 15:52:29 still!!!!?? Mar 28 15:52:35 ScaredyCat: Yes, still Mar 28 15:52:43 It just won't build past task 1711 Mar 28 15:53:03 hi anyone involved in the google summer of code? Mar 28 15:53:22 XorA said he had that problem some time long ago too Mar 28 15:54:01 I'll have to look at the code again. :( Mar 28 15:54:28 BornToLag: What would you like to know? Mar 28 15:54:41 abraxa_: Hey :) Mar 28 15:54:49 Hiho CM :) Mar 28 15:56:32 i'm interesting in applying and was wondering what would be involved to realise the accelerometer idea Mar 28 15:57:21 what idea Mar 28 15:57:23 BornToLag: I'd recommend you picking a different subject - there are already 5 other people wanting to do this Mar 28 15:57:24 there are thousands Mar 28 15:58:03 ahh! just as well I asked then Mar 28 15:59:07 The 'makes light-saber noises when you wave it around' ? Mar 28 15:59:24 hehe thats the one... Mar 28 15:59:33 i wonder if people just go down the list of mentor companies and spam them with ideas.... i hope openmoko choose wisely and award to somebody who has at least shown an interest in the project for a while Mar 28 15:59:44 i like the "test battery level" with shake idea :) Mar 28 16:00:02 I like 'Scream when dropped'. Mar 28 16:00:11 ahah yeh Mar 28 16:00:21 test battery level? Mar 28 16:00:41 yeh some clowns did it already tho Mar 28 16:00:42 summatus|dungeon: it sloshes when you shake it Mar 28 16:00:46 SpeedEvil: Hehe, that one would be cool. "NOOOOoooo...." :) Mar 28 16:01:25 SpeedEvil: oh weird... Mar 28 16:01:25 do you have any recommendations for interesting medium difficulty projects? Mar 28 16:01:41 BornToLag: wander over the ideas page Mar 28 16:02:09 BornToLag: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code Mar 28 16:02:45 accelerometer to dbus type interfaces be nice Mar 28 16:03:21 zedstar: maybe falls under odeviced? Mar 28 16:04:27 BornToLag: Better to look at the FreeRunner hardware, think really hard what amazing thing could be done with low level gsm info + gps + accelerometer + wifi and come up with your own amazing idea Mar 28 16:04:50 BornToLag: look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Ideas Mar 28 16:04:51 summatus: what is that/ Mar 28 16:04:52 ? Mar 28 16:05:04 mickey_away is really keen on people coming up with their own idea for them to fall in love with... Mar 28 16:05:05 wurp2: plus mic Mar 28 16:05:25 SpeedEvil: good point Mar 28 16:05:32 and speaker, of course Mar 28 16:05:40 Sure. Mar 28 16:05:43 zedstar: www.freesmartphone.org, mickey_away wants to have a pretty standard set of daemons that will be usable for 'free smartphones' in general, instead of only OM Mar 28 16:05:47 The one speaker cripples ou for sonar though. Mar 28 16:05:49 summatus|dungeon, dungeon? Mar 28 16:06:03 dungeon is what they call the CSCI programming lab at school Mar 28 16:06:30 summatus: oh ok yeh familiar with that Mar 28 16:07:22 zedstar: (also, the thing Sup3rkiddo and myself applied for in GSoC) Mar 28 16:07:23 is anyone thinking about location based stuff? Mar 28 16:07:45 summatus: wot u wanna do? Mar 28 16:07:58 zedstar: implement it :) Mar 28 16:08:02 summatus|dungeon, from how mickeyl sounded there seems to be many who did that Mar 28 16:08:11 DBUS API, modular backends Mar 28 16:08:16 * Tanuva wants his freerunner to gpslog his home and improve osm... :) Mar 28 16:08:24 Sup3rkiddo: uh oh... :/ Mar 28 16:08:54 summatus|dungeon, muhahah... Mar 28 16:09:03 * Sup3rkiddo hastily changes his proposal Mar 28 16:09:15 A high level location dbus api would be extra cool Mar 28 16:09:26 summatus: ah ok.....good idea....when they say works on other devices are dependencies on glib ok or cant even assume glib exists? Mar 28 16:10:10 If you could just define an location with a coarse grained area around it, then use gps + gsm info + wifi + maybe bluetooth + maybe accelerometer to generate location information & events when you enter that area Mar 28 16:10:15 (and exit) Mar 28 16:10:26 zedstar: my understanding is that fs.o is very preliminary. If i understand correctly, the specs for modules and dbus interface are not entirely specified yet Mar 28 16:10:34 nope Mar 28 16:10:38 not for odeviced Mar 28 16:10:55 Sup3rkiddo: what do you mean? did I miss part of fs.o? Mar 28 16:10:58 cos the glib bindings for dbus are nice Mar 28 16:11:38 summatus|dungeon, afaik, we are the first ones to work on that Mar 28 16:12:01 right, which means we get to decide on specifications for the API right? Mar 28 16:12:33 and by we, I mean you, because you seem to have a better handle on the project Mar 28 16:13:05 bleh to you Mar 28 16:13:45 summatus|dungeon, from what mickeyl sounded, there may be others who must have proposed work on odeviced Mar 28 16:14:48 I haven't gotten that impression, but if that's the case, well, I probably won't get it then Mar 28 16:15:13 my experience on other projects is that whoever makes a decent standard first and publishes it wins Mar 28 16:15:26 summatus|dungeon, did you take a look at gsmd2 Mar 28 16:15:37 * Sup3rkiddo doesnt have a device atm to test them out :( Mar 28 16:15:40 Sup3rkiddo: no, I didn't. I thought about it, there's a new version Mar 28 16:16:09 wurp2: decent standard meaning? a plan for the API? Mar 28 16:16:11 summatus|dungeon, Sup3rkiddo: Problem is that only one of you could get paid for it. Sure you're free to collaborate and get paid half each but... Mar 28 16:16:38 abraxa_, gulp!... Mar 28 16:17:14 maybe integrating gsm0710 mux with gsmd2 qualifies for a good GSoC project? Mar 28 16:17:25 abraxa_: yeah, we were sort of trying to figure out a way to split it, kinda hard to do Mar 28 16:17:39 Yeah... and odeviced isn't exactly something you can split in two parts. Maybe one can do odeviced and one otelephonyd/ophoned... you'll have to ask mickey Mar 28 16:17:45 so now we just talk to each other about it, because it's about the only thing that I can contribute :) Mar 28 16:18:33 abraxa_, mickey says there are 4 possibilities for ophoned....both of us are kinda confused in that front Mar 28 16:18:41 summatus|dungeon: yeah Mar 28 16:19:03 Sup3rkiddo: With that I'm sure he's refering to the GSM backends. There's gsmd, gsmd2, pygsmd and something else Mar 28 16:19:26 qtmux\gsmd Mar 28 16:19:33 summatus|dungeon: Just list the methods, structures, events, preferably to the point of having something that a client can code to Mar 28 16:19:42 Sup3rkiddo: Picking the right one could be part of the SoC project - i.e. research Mar 28 16:19:48 abraxa_, yep....problem is there are only 3 days to come up with another proposal Mar 28 16:19:57 If nothing else, it gives people something concrete to bitch about if they think they know a better way Mar 28 16:20:20 wurp2: I put that part of planning the API as part of the GSoC project Mar 28 16:20:23 abraxa_, and summatus|dungeon and me are quite inexperienced in that front.. Mar 28 16:20:31 Sup3rkiddo: That's why there are mentors ;p Mar 28 16:20:34 summatus|dungeon, hehe, me too Mar 28 16:20:39 People often will keep their ideas to themselves until you tell them you're gonna do it a way they think is wrong, then they'll speak up :-) Mar 28 16:21:27 summatus|dungeon, lets update the proposal before they fix the webapp bug :P Mar 28 16:21:38 webapp bug? Mar 28 16:21:46 summatus|dungeon: I hope I'm not leading you astray, but if *I* were figuring out to whom I should give a project, and one guy already had a sample API laid out that made sense, I know that would significantly influence my decision Mar 28 16:22:02 summatus|dungeon, you can edit without getting comments from the mentors Mar 28 16:22:06 API race, gogogo!! Mar 28 16:22:07 wurp2: no, that makes sense, I just feel inexperienced Mar 28 16:22:24 Sup3rkiddo: no you can't, I tried on a different project, it pretends to let you, but then doesn't take Mar 28 16:22:33 summatus|dungeon, wha!!! Mar 28 16:22:37 yeah, afaik Mar 28 16:22:42 wurp2: Forget it. There's tons of people who want to do accelerometers and some other peeps with random ideas Mar 28 16:23:08 * Sup3rkiddo signouts and logs in Mar 28 16:23:37 * summatus|dungeon is hoping OM picks something that would further the middleware APIs, instead of niceties Mar 28 16:23:44 * Sup3rkiddo too Mar 28 16:23:55 ophoned and odeviced should be top top top priority Mar 28 16:23:55 but then again, I'm not biased or anything Mar 28 16:24:56 summatus|dungeon, hey, updates work for me...but i am not sure if the webapp is giving me a false sense of security :P Mar 28 16:25:01 abraxa_: Ah, I see. I actually thought they were talking about some location based stuff Mar 28 16:25:17 Sup3rkiddo: really? weird Mar 28 16:25:19 wurp2, i think you are a python developer Mar 28 16:25:23 I agree that the guy on the mailing list who had done accelerometer gesture stuff in the past probably wins Mar 28 16:25:32 summatus|dungeon, check the soc lists as well... Mar 28 16:25:44 Sup3rkiddo: Java, C, C++, Python, perl for text processing... Mar 28 16:26:05 wurp2, have you worked with psyco?.. Mar 28 16:26:09 Sup3rkiddo: But I don't see what that has to do with anything Mar 28 16:26:14 Sup3rkiddo: Yep, but only as a client Mar 28 16:26:32 Being a client to psyco is trivial Mar 28 16:26:39 wurp2, is porting psyco for the FreeRunner, a stupid idea? Mar 28 16:26:59 probably Mar 28 16:27:04 with pypy being so cool Mar 28 16:27:05 I think it's a great idea, although you should look at pypy too to see which would be easier Mar 28 16:27:26 pypy's translation == super cool Mar 28 16:27:32 You will probably have to write an interpeter instead that xlates from their "common assembler" to our ARM instruction set Mar 28 16:27:35 stupid name Mar 28 16:27:37 cc Mar 28 16:27:42 perlperl Mar 28 16:27:44 asm stuff is uber geeky Mar 28 16:27:54 cheesecheese Mar 28 16:28:00 snakesnakebadger Mar 28 16:28:01 cb22cb22 Mar 28 16:28:08 They already have pypy (or psyco, don't remember which) code to do the super optimization targeting a neutral instruction set Mar 28 16:28:12 ScaredyCatScardyCat Mar 28 16:28:31 Really using the ARM instruction set properly from pypy or psyco is probably too much for GSoC Mar 28 16:28:33 pypy can convert python to javascript Mar 28 16:28:42 cb22: Wow, I didn't know that... Mar 28 16:28:47 wurp2, agreed...thats why i asked Mar 28 16:28:48 you dont get much cooler :D Mar 28 16:28:57 I don't have any use for that, but it's pretty neat Mar 28 16:29:01 wurp2: and to flex Mar 28 16:29:06 and to C Mar 28 16:29:16 I would prefer pypy, since it's more maintained Mar 28 16:29:34 http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/py/chimp/chimp.html Mar 28 16:29:44 " I'll try to  explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers" <---- a management consultant that's a developer? :P Mar 28 16:30:11 and it sounds as if you could start with a framework that just sends it to C and compiles for Neo architecture & be done :-) Mar 28 16:30:16 see, that's where I went wrong in my applicatoin Mar 28 16:30:27 wurp2, yeah Mar 28 16:30:34 I forgot the phrase transversal homomorphist synergy Mar 28 16:30:43 oo.. Mar 28 16:30:48 you lucky basterds should all get freerunners too Mar 28 16:30:56 * Sup3rkiddo goes to the essay generator Mar 28 16:31:01 cb22, who? Mar 28 16:31:04 summatus|dungeon: :) Mar 28 16:31:11 Sup3rkiddo: GSoC people Mar 28 16:31:20 holy Mar 28 16:31:29 that's cool Mar 28 16:31:40 broken ones though Mar 28 16:31:43 cb22: I saw that, but I assume it's only for the time of GSoC Mar 28 16:31:48 still coooler Mar 28 16:31:58 ScaredyCat: sean didn't really say if they were going to be broken or not Mar 28 16:32:02 summatus|dungeon, na, it may be a gift Mar 28 16:32:17 Sup3rkiddo: could be, mayebe Mar 28 16:32:22 god I can't spell Mar 28 16:32:34 naa.. they'll be broken just to frustrate your coding Mar 28 16:32:37 ~lart summatus|dungeon for bad speeeling Mar 28 16:32:37 * apt hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at summatus|dungeon for bad speeeling Mar 28 16:32:55 summatus|dungeon: they'd probably be early protype version thingys Mar 28 16:32:58 ScaredyCat, you are just being cynical :S Mar 28 16:33:05 they would probably let you keep them Mar 28 16:33:05 cb22, thats still cooler Mar 28 16:33:07 no, just bitter Mar 28 16:33:20 cb22: well, early prototypes would mean functional right? Mar 28 16:33:24 sure Mar 28 16:33:41 maybe from the PVT run coming up Mar 28 16:33:49 *NOT COVERED UNDER WARRATY, YOU'RE FUCKERED IF THEY BREAK Mar 28 16:33:52 :) Mar 28 16:33:53 i dunno though, ask someone like mickey_away for more info Mar 28 16:33:57 for one if at all i get in, i would be working of user space stuff..so unless i brick it no worries Mar 28 16:34:04 that is,when he's back from being away :p Mar 28 16:34:23 alright, I'm leaving be back later maybe, class is over Mar 28 16:34:27 i hate when he does tha :S Mar 28 16:34:28 is Gmail senind 20 million dupes again Mar 28 16:34:32 sendog Mar 28 16:34:34 sending Mar 28 16:34:41 summatus|dungeon, chao Mar 28 16:34:41 I didn't do anything except talk to you people, thanks! Mar 28 16:34:50 ~lart SpeedEvil for hypocrisy Mar 28 16:34:50 * apt pulls out his louisville slugger and uses SpeedEvil's head to break the homerun record for hypocrisy Mar 28 16:35:06 argh, s/speedevil/scardycat/ Mar 28 16:35:35 I've got a good GSoc codeing job for someone... Mar 28 16:35:39 fix gmail Mar 28 16:35:44 gmail is cool Mar 28 16:35:51 no it's not.. Mar 28 16:35:56 ok its not Mar 28 16:36:01 it's data mining done well, but not cool Mar 28 16:38:10 openmoko: 03werner * r4266 10/developers/werner/bug1252/ (. NOTES no-dfu with-dfu): Support data and scripts for bugzilla bug #1252. Mar 28 16:39:20 Does anyone know offhand how to get the list of cells in range & strength from libgsmd-tool's shell mode? Mar 28 16:39:39 Neither nr nor Q did it, and they were the only commands in the help list that seemed likely to me Mar 28 16:40:23 mickey_away: did you put that finx in oe or om ? Mar 28 16:40:25 fix Mar 28 16:40:47 morning, all Mar 28 16:42:25 wurp2, get the opers list Mar 28 16:43:00 wurp2, its one of the numbers iirc.. Mar 28 16:43:42 wurp2, oops, not the opers list...sorry :D Mar 28 16:44:02 ~fish Sup3rkiddo for stupidity Mar 28 16:44:03 * apt slaps Sup3rkiddo for stupidity around with a large trout Mar 28 16:44:46 AT+CNMI=3,0,2 Mar 28 16:48:51 So only in atmcd mode? Mar 28 16:49:00 That's not a problem, just kind of surprising Mar 28 16:49:16 s/atmcd/atcmd/ Mar 28 16:49:46 Thanks for the info Mar 28 16:53:33 AT+CSCB=1 Mar 28 16:53:50 just gave me the local region (std code) Mar 28 16:54:31 I'm going to write a crutch process to ping the cell network every N minutes & restart gsm if necessary Mar 28 16:54:59 cell broadcasts... Mar 28 16:55:05 you could listen for those Mar 28 16:55:05 And probably record that info for fun on my phone & correlate with gps Mar 28 16:55:22 ScaredyCat: I dunno how to listen for those, other than keep libgsmd-tool open all the time Mar 28 16:55:34 ScaredyCat: Is there a dbus or other event interface for them? Mar 28 16:55:47 you use python? Mar 28 16:55:51 normally Mar 28 16:56:01 take a look at the settings gui Mar 28 16:56:13 Good point Mar 28 16:56:19 iirc it creates a pipe Mar 28 16:56:28 To libgsmd-tool? That's what I've been doing Mar 28 16:56:33 yes Mar 28 16:56:37 K Mar 28 16:56:37 same thing I guess Mar 28 16:56:45 It just feels weird to keep the app up all the time Mar 28 16:56:48 And... Mar 28 16:56:51 yes... Mar 28 16:56:53 well... Mar 28 16:56:55 imho Mar 28 16:57:05 does anyone know of any pre-liminary reading I could do on dbus? Mar 28 16:57:10 all the stuff like that should have a dbus i/f Mar 28 16:57:10 It's easier programatically to ask for the info and freak if I don't get it, than monitor the last time I got it and freak if it's too long Mar 28 16:57:23 ScaredyCat: I think that's the plan Mar 28 16:57:33 or even something in /proc/ Mar 28 16:57:49 summatusmentis: I put (most of) the current Neo dbus api on the wiki Mar 28 16:58:04 summatusmentis: And I have client code that walks dbus if you're interested Mar 28 16:58:22 (in python). It's pretty straightforward. Mar 28 16:58:38 summatusmentis, the dbus tutorial is also there Mar 28 16:58:42 it's not too hard in c either... Mar 28 16:58:51 somewhere I have a simple test app I did.. Mar 28 16:59:49 wurp2: I would be interested in that code Mar 28 17:00:00 wurp2, there are some python bindings to libgsmd i made earlier...just maybe it will interest you (although emdete's is loads better) Mar 28 17:00:03 anyone have the specific link off the top of their head? Mar 28 17:00:38 summatusmentis, http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/D-Bus/Introduction Mar 28 17:01:10 thanks Sup3rkiddo Mar 28 17:01:51 summatusmentis, hey theres gsmd2 code too :P Mar 28 17:02:35 Sup3rkiddo: Will emdete's run in the normal OM environment, or is it underground specific? Mar 28 17:02:42 Sup3rkiddo: yeah, i think I have an old old version of it Mar 28 17:03:00 wurp2, i am not sure as i havent really played with it... Mar 28 17:04:52 wurp2, i have an ipk here from an older revision...but i think you should look around the svn first to check it it will help at all...it was more of an exercise in learning Mar 28 17:04:53 http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/python-openmoko/ Mar 28 17:05:22 Cool, thanks! Mar 28 17:07:53 wurp2, i think theres a bitbake recipe in OE as well...you may have to change SRC_URI as i had move things around svn Mar 28 17:08:26 I have (IMHO) a great idea that I'd like to do a GSoC project on. It isn't directly related to any of the suggested projects on the SoC page, but I think it would be a good plan. I wanted to bounce it off some of you guys to see what you thought. Mar 28 17:08:42 dcode, cool :D Mar 28 17:09:17 To me, the difference between a phone, e-mail client, IM client, etc are not that different...this isn't an entirely new concept, but I think a mobile phone should be 100% integrated into a presence framework Mar 28 17:09:52 use case 1: I set myself as Do not disturb, the ring tone profile changes to silent or vibrate, my status on any IM client is changed to the same Mar 28 17:10:35 when I send a message, it looks at the user in my contact list and sees if they have an online presence on a compatible IM network...if so, instead of SMS, the phone defaults to IM Mar 28 17:10:50 if the user isn't online, it falls back to SMS Mar 28 17:11:42 this provides similar functionality as Galago on the desktop, but extends into the mobile realm Mar 28 17:12:46 the effort would be applied largely to the contacts application, and other client apps....like a telepathy client, should some one take up that project Mar 28 17:13:37 of course, in the panel somewhere (I've been tinkering w/ the qemu image) changing the ringtone profile correlates to a presence status Mar 28 17:14:03 dcode, imo, i think you should go ahead with a proposal....deadline for doing so is near Mar 28 17:14:05 does this sound like something that aligns with OpenMoko's goals? Mar 28 17:14:09 yeah, I know Mar 28 17:14:15 i would be satisfied with a jabberclient with sms-fallback Mar 28 17:14:21 I just wanted to bounce that off to see if I was on another planet Mar 28 17:14:57 zash: I generally agree, and once the ringtone stuff gets implemented(dependent on location, etc.) it could feasible be tied in w/ that Mar 28 17:15:04 zash, I agree, that would be simpler, but I've really wanted the whole presence thing for a while...I think this is an enabling step to do much cooler stuff Mar 28 17:15:22 for example i could set locations where i want the phone to be in silent mode Mar 28 17:15:44 enter my girl's house set the damn thing to silent mode automatically Mar 28 17:15:48 lol Mar 28 17:16:12 k...I'll write up this proposal right now Mar 28 17:16:55 I have another question though, that I asked last night, but I'm gonna ask again b/c I'm still confused....is OpenMoko headed for a standard GTK+ or EFL UI? Mar 28 17:17:05 one of the suggested projects is for standard EFL widgets Mar 28 17:17:14 but everything else seems to currently be in GTK+ Mar 28 17:19:51 people here seem to like EFL, so I don't know if there's a standard really Mar 28 17:20:02 but most of the stuff is based on gpe, and thus gtk Mar 28 17:20:55 i c....that's what I was getting from everything that I've read, but when I asked last night, everyone was saying GTK+... Mar 28 17:20:56 summatusmentis, did you receive any comments on your proposal Mar 28 17:21:05 nope Mar 28 17:21:17 me neither.. Mar 28 17:21:19 mickey_away is always busy :-D Mar 28 17:21:47 maybe we should start pestering other mentors :D Mar 28 17:22:33 don't know who the other mentors are, maybe XorA|backtouk, and maybe abraxa_, but that's all I know Mar 28 17:22:57 Not me, I'm a student :) Mar 28 17:23:08 abraxa_, you applying as well? Mar 28 17:23:12 Yeah Mar 28 17:23:14 ah Mar 28 17:23:26 oh, then I have no idea Mar 28 17:23:32 summatusmentis, i guess we should pack up Mar 28 17:23:38 pack up? Mar 28 17:23:45 oops..wrong window Mar 28 17:24:14 :) Mar 28 17:24:46 abraxa_, what are you applying fir? Mar 28 17:28:42 Sup3rkiddo: Middleware fun :) Mar 28 17:28:57 abraxa_, let me guess...fs.o? Mar 28 17:29:08 Yeah but it has nothing to do with your stuff Mar 28 17:29:12 So no overlaps Mar 28 17:29:40 abraxa_, lol...i was getting my voodoo dolls ready :D Mar 28 17:31:32 lol Mar 28 17:31:50 dcode: I think everything is gtk /because/ there are no efl widgets done Mar 28 17:32:01 i c Mar 28 17:32:28 although I don;t thin k anyone really knows what they want... Mar 28 17:32:41 efl has widgets Mar 28 17:32:44 lots of them Mar 28 17:32:49 hence the gtk, efl jiggery pokery Mar 28 17:32:49 hell you're spolt for choice Mar 28 17:33:03 spoilt :) Mar 28 17:33:04 that's a gsoc goal Mar 28 17:33:15 i don't get the goal Mar 28 17:33:20 efl has 2 widget sets Mar 28 17:33:27 I'm assuming it's more om targeted widgets Mar 28 17:33:28 total efl would be awesome...i hope thats why raster is here =_ Mar 28 17:33:40 s/=_/+) Mar 28 17:33:42 naa he's just a programmer... Mar 28 17:33:48 a slow one too... Mar 28 17:33:58 I think he's a beginner.. Mar 28 17:34:00 :P Mar 28 17:34:11 yeah a n00b.. Mar 28 17:34:12 you'd think after rewriting E 17 times... Mar 28 17:34:13 * Qwell ducks Mar 28 17:34:39 lol Mar 28 17:34:42 yeah, so many rewrites.. Mar 28 17:34:49 I think the first time it was in VB Mar 28 17:34:57 lmao Mar 28 17:34:57 raster: how much code was re-used between versions? Mar 28 17:35:18 wasn't the first one in pascal? it seemed like it was a while ago :-p Mar 28 17:35:31 ScaredyCat: :-P Mar 28 17:35:31 Cobol Mar 28 17:35:31 quite an interesting way to go about it - it appears to work though Mar 28 17:35:54 Qwell: which versions? Mar 28 17:36:13 any where there was a rewrite Mar 28 17:36:21 (of E, that is) Mar 28 17:36:26 e got a rewrite 0.13->0.14 and 0.16->0.17 Mar 28 17:36:31 or is the whole "rewrite" thing blown out of proportion? Mar 28 17:36:33 tats it Mar 28 17:36:33 no code re-use Mar 28 17:36:47 its a stupid internet myth Mar 28 17:36:52 oh, see, I was under the impression that it was done like every time Mar 28 17:36:56 but you knew that Mar 28 17:37:03 people basically don't know the facts Mar 28 17:37:15 they love to have opinions on things they know nothing about Mar 28 17:37:25 as basically then they look like they know something Mar 28 17:37:29 isn't that the basis of the Internet? Mar 28 17:37:34 and it makes them feel like they have a big penis or something. Mar 28 17:37:40 it's not so much an opinion Mar 28 17:37:45 I mean....would it *exist* w/o that? it's kinda hard to image Mar 28 17:37:54 well its not a fact Mar 28 17:37:55 but I guess it's easy if you try Mar 28 17:37:58 nor is it even close Mar 28 17:38:03 s/image/imagine/ Mar 28 17:38:44 yeah, he's just saying all that - we know the internet is always right Mar 28 17:40:40 * ScaredyCat prods mickey_away with a giant foam hand Mar 28 17:41:51 haha Mar 28 17:43:10 ScaredyCat: Tough chance, I bet he's with his wifey Mar 28 17:45:18 he might want to borrow the hand... Mar 28 17:45:24 rofl Mar 28 17:45:47 I love how naughty you are for a kitten. Mar 28 17:48:56 :) Mar 28 17:50:13 Sup3rkiddo: Do you two have any idea what to do about your projects? Mar 28 17:50:39 http://hacked.free-bsd.org/funstuff/pics/891.html Mar 28 17:50:56 abraxa_, yeah somewhat...need someone to look at my proposal and offer comments Mar 28 17:51:16 Ahh good :) Mar 28 17:51:52 CAN I HAS A MENTOR Mar 28 17:52:55 abraxa_: you two who? Mar 28 17:52:56 Hmm, none of the other guys is around so looks like you'll have to wait Mar 28 17:53:04 summatusmentis: Super and you ;) Mar 28 17:53:33 oh, well, we've both submitted, but at least my app is relatively meta and generic, because I don't know that much about implementation of my idea Mar 28 17:53:44 summatusmentis, LIAR! Mar 28 17:53:47 :P Mar 28 17:54:05 liar what? unless you haven't submitted, everything I said is true Mar 28 17:54:09 lol Mar 28 17:54:32 summatusmentis, oh come on, dont get on me..:(..i was kidding Mar 28 17:54:33 oh shit, gotta run, meeting w/ csci prof Mar 28 17:54:39 summatusmentis, bye Mar 28 17:54:42 lol, I know, no worres Mar 28 17:54:46 god I can't spell Mar 28 17:55:09 Sup3rkiddo: I just wanted to make sure you two don't apply for some kind of joint project cause that wouldn't end well for either one of you =\ Mar 28 17:55:42 abraxa_, actually thats whats scaring us becuase both of us had applied for the same exact project =/ Mar 28 17:56:03 abraxa_, GSoC is evil Mar 28 17:56:11 lol, yes Mar 28 17:57:19 If you want to help the case, submit more applications and note "I can do this project but I'd rather work on my proposal for XYZ instead" in them - the more applications for Openmoko, the more slots we get Mar 28 17:57:27 So that's what I'm doing :) Mar 28 17:57:41 * abraxa_ wants more than just 2 or 3 slots but it's looking dim atm Mar 28 17:57:59 2 or 3?...i was looking at maybe 4-5 Mar 28 17:58:25 Last number I heard was that we had 15 applications for Openmoko so far Mar 28 17:58:36 abraxa_, yeah on the lists... Mar 28 17:58:36 Last year we had ~40 and only got 3 slots Mar 28 17:58:43 ooo Mar 28 17:58:51 So... yeah.... Mar 28 17:59:15 [OT]: GNUherds.org is not just another Job Site. As The GNU Project tries to develop a 100% Free Software Operating System for its users, GNU Herds tries to carry the same freedom philosophy on the paid and unpaid Free Software authors. Mar 28 17:59:38 heh heh Mar 28 18:01:28 Sup3rkiddo: See http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-student-allocations Mar 28 18:02:05 wow, my first GNU spam Mar 28 18:02:37 * SpeedEvil wishes he could apply for GSoC Mar 28 18:03:16 wurp2, there is always a first time. Sorry :| Mar 28 18:04:07 I hope do more of the same on others channels so I kill the project Mar 28 18:05:42 is there an age limit for GSoC? Mar 28 18:05:58 zedstar, nope Mar 28 18:06:00 afaik Mar 28 18:06:34 I thought there was. Mar 28 18:06:41 120 Mar 28 18:07:42 are there any restrictions to who can apply? Mar 28 18:08:50 Oh - my bad. I misread it last time. Mar 28 18:08:50 zedstar, you just need to be a student Mar 28 18:08:52 'Yes. You must be 18 years of age or older by April 14, 2008 to be eligible to participate in Google Summer of Code in 2008.' Mar 28 18:09:25 ah ok 18 to n years old as long as student Mar 28 18:09:57 full time or part time Mar 28 18:10:04 and not in NK, cuba, burma, ... Mar 28 18:11:00 i guess the educational institute needs to be accredited in some way Mar 28 18:12:48 DPThought: ping Mar 28 18:15:30 that rules out religious cults applying then Mar 28 18:15:40 heh Mar 28 18:16:01 * * OM Bug 1310 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info Mar 28 18:16:02 * * GTA01 must have battery removed if X fails to start Mar 28 18:16:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1310 Mar 28 18:16:47 kdean06: Is your foreverdean.info domain using gmail to send mail? Mar 28 18:16:53 I see dupes from you on the mailing lists Mar 28 18:16:59 Really? Mar 28 18:17:07 Yes, it does use Gmail. Mar 28 18:17:16 I can stop. :P Mar 28 18:17:18 he he Mar 28 18:17:47 I need a real reason to get off of that, and I'll have an upgraded VPS "soon". Mar 28 18:18:00 well, I use gmail too Mar 28 18:18:08 So far I haven't seen dupes of my messages, though, I don't think Mar 28 18:18:41 wurp2, Do you see it frequently or in some specific cases? Mar 28 18:19:17 I just saw it once for you Mar 28 18:19:28 I may have been drunk. :P Mar 28 18:19:29 s/saw/noticed/ Mar 28 18:19:29 wurp2 meant: I just noticed it once for you Mar 28 18:19:30 Though... Mar 28 18:19:38 Just now Mar 28 18:20:11 I think reply all adds your name AND the list, so you get both. Which is why you'd only see it once... I would bet it was on the fast charge thread. :) Mar 28 18:20:20 "Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts (Kevin Dean)" Mar 28 18:20:40 But I see it multiple times in the one community digest email Mar 28 18:20:56 Oh. Mar 28 18:21:14 Duly noted. Gmail sucks anyway. :P Mar 28 18:21:14 Weird. The To: is just joerg's address Mar 28 18:21:46 I've really liked it. This #$&! issue of it spamming the mailing list is my only complaint Mar 28 18:22:12 openmoko: 03werner * r4267 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (glamo-cmdqueue-bandaid.patch series): Andy's debug-glamo-fb-cmdqueue-wait-timeout.patch Mar 28 18:23:20 I've had a ton of issues. Mar 28 18:23:31 My only actual praise for it is the spam filter. Mar 28 18:23:40 kdean06: What kind of issues? Mar 28 18:23:58 The biggest one is a SERIOUS delay in message sending. Mar 28 18:24:04 No praise for threaded conversations & excellent search? Mar 28 18:24:28 Sometime people send me things and I don't get them for hours, and it says "4 minutes ago" though the headers say otherwise. Mar 28 18:24:32 It's possible that I have that issue, but I've never noticed it Mar 28 18:24:49 Oh, delay in when you receive it Mar 28 18:25:05 I had issues with that early on, but they are long since gone for me Mar 28 18:25:06 The threaded conversations are good in a two-party conversation, but it fails once it splits beyond that... Mar 28 18:25:19 True, one really wants a tree Mar 28 18:25:23 I've had messages with different titles added in unrelated coversations and vise versa. Mar 28 18:25:39 But, I still far prefer the threaded approach for multiparty conversations to the conventional approach Mar 28 18:25:53 I actually think the "tags" are useless and that filters and folders would rock. Mar 28 18:26:10 Isn't that a reply thread id problem, ppl replying & changing the subject? Mar 28 18:26:29 It has filters, and you can make the filter not put the incoming email in the inbox... Mar 28 18:26:54 Gmail has folders? :P Mar 28 18:26:54 i.e. you can make tags work just like folders, except a single email can be in multiple ones Mar 28 18:27:19 You can create a filter to apply a tag & not put the email in the inbox Mar 28 18:27:23 So basically, yes Mar 28 18:27:27 night all Mar 28 18:27:35 'afternoon Mar 28 18:37:45 openmoko: 03rob * r4268 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-wifi/ (16 files in 3 dirs): Mar 28 18:37:45 openmoko: 2008-03-28 Rob Bradford Mar 28 18:37:45 openmoko: * Initial commit. Mar 28 19:09:40 I'm getting dupes from steve like... every post. :P Mar 28 19:13:19 gmail Mar 28 19:13:21 shite Mar 28 19:15:57 Okay, so I'm now curious about exactly what charging modes the GTA01 actually has. :P Mar 28 19:16:40 slow Mar 28 19:16:41 fast Mar 28 19:16:44 that's it Mar 28 19:16:50 precharge Mar 28 19:16:53 also Mar 28 19:17:01 where's the difference? Mar 28 19:17:04 100mA or 500mA Mar 28 19:17:09 40mA Mar 28 19:17:12 40 ? Mar 28 19:17:17 I've seen 100 mA, 500mA, 850mA and 1000 A tossed around... I know that may include GTA02 but I'm confuzzled. :P Mar 28 19:17:27 kdean06: everything >500 is gta02 Mar 28 19:17:29 when the battery is very flat Mar 28 19:17:36 interesting Mar 28 19:17:48 So 100 mA is "Slow charge" and 500 is fast? Mar 28 19:17:49 never observed that Mar 28 19:17:54 kdean06: ya Mar 28 19:18:08 Okay. So three states... Mar 28 19:18:37 And not charging - charged Mar 28 19:18:59 SpeedEvil, Is "Charged" actually a state? Mar 28 19:19:17 No - I was meaning in practice Mar 28 19:19:22 kdean06: Fast may also be 1000mA according to this: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=956 Mar 28 19:19:25 eventually it stops charging Mar 28 19:19:36 But would the Neo know that? Mar 28 19:19:56 ya Mar 28 19:20:06 the intention is to keep dbus for IPC, right? Mar 28 19:20:19 dcode: absolutely Mar 28 19:20:24 s/keep/introduce/ Mar 28 19:20:25 The reason I ask is because the USB charging discussion now makes me wonder why the battery monitor applet has "not charging" and "fast charge" but no "slow charge" or "charged" states. Mar 28 19:20:25 ;) Mar 28 19:20:41 kdean06: we never got around implementing that Mar 28 19:20:49 detecting full charge is tricky Mar 28 19:20:57 on gta01 Mar 28 19:21:18 :) thanks, mickeyl. I just get a little confused between all the docs explaining the older GTK stuff, proposals w/ EFL stuff...what exists, what's a dream, etc Mar 28 19:21:30 dcode: i can feel your pain Mar 28 19:21:30 is the plan to implement a "no information available" state for the various applet icons? Mar 28 19:21:31 'voltage has been over 4170mV or so for an hour is probably sane. Mar 28 19:21:47 ahhaaa... mickeyl Mar 28 19:21:53 until now OM has been in experimentation mode and will continue to do so for some more months. we slowly start building our platform now Mar 28 19:22:12 mwester: probably Mar 28 19:22:32 the icons will just show what dbus signalizes to them Mar 28 19:22:39 we will put all the logic into the dbus daemons Mar 28 19:22:42 That's fine. :) I wasn't criticising the lack, more curious to the reasoning. Mar 28 19:22:56 so if I were to work on some middleware w/ some UI components, would it be safe to use the OpenMoko framework diagram in the wiki as a starting point, if I substitute EFL into places where GTK resides? Mar 28 19:22:58 there's also some 'bounce' in detecting fast charge mode Mar 28 19:22:58 not much reasoning except "we want to see results... fast" Mar 28 19:23:40 dcode: give me the weekend and I'll do a new platform page in the wiki with uptodate info and focused around middleware Mar 28 19:23:41 My app sees slow charge mode sometimes when you connect to a fast charger. I updated it to check three times, with (iirc) a 100 ms delay between, and keep checking until it gets the same answer three times Mar 28 19:23:51 but I still get slow charge detected on a fast charger sometimes Mar 28 19:23:57 mickeyl, I want to submit a SoC proposal :D Mar 28 19:24:10 dcode: heh, go figure it out then :) Mar 28 19:24:14 lol Mar 28 19:24:26 wurp2: ya, i've seen that some times gta01 loses usb enumeration and stops charging Mar 28 19:24:34 must be a kernel bug Mar 28 19:24:53 That must be why I've seen it die while plugged in overnight. :) Mar 28 19:25:14 I've heard that, for instance, telepathy is not very well liked due to its complexity....is there an ideal replacement? Mar 28 19:25:28 by ideal, I mean preferred over telepathy Mar 28 19:25:37 well Mar 28 19:25:39 telepathy is great Mar 28 19:25:45 we just need to start smaller Mar 28 19:26:04 i still can see a way for telepathy in the platform eventually Mar 28 19:26:25 right, I know....there needs to be more hardware support...I understand that.... Mar 28 19:27:35 what I'd like to do, which I discussed previously when you were away, is to rewrite/extend the contacts application to more presence aware...while I know the other pieces aren't there yet, I think there is still a valid step which will enable nice integration later Mar 28 19:28:26 for instance, changing your status to Away or Do Not Disturb, will update your ringtone to vibe/silent, set your status on applicable frameworks...this can be triggered by the GPS lib as well Mar 28 19:28:54 sounds good. be prepared that there will be a notion of "context" sooner or later Mar 28 19:28:59 also, when browsing your contacts, you can see their presence status if they have an associated IM entry Mar 28 19:29:15 can you elaborate on "context" Mar 28 19:30:01 we will introduce a context entity Mar 28 19:30:17 a context is gathered out of multiple sources Mar 28 19:30:20 like Mar 28 19:30:22 location Mar 28 19:30:28 usecase Mar 28 19:30:36 preference Mar 28 19:30:47 this is a superset of what a profile does Mar 28 19:31:02 okay....I think I understand....I discussed it with others earlier....just didn't know the terminology Mar 28 19:31:04 the middleware tries to detect context changes Mar 28 19:31:11 and informs the rest of the system Mar 28 19:31:15 which then can act Mar 28 19:31:22 like... supressing calls Mar 28 19:31:27 right, and I think the whole presence system should be closely associated Mar 28 19:31:34 or triggering presence info Mar 28 19:31:35 yep Mar 28 19:31:37 or part of Mar 28 19:31:59 that's really I guess very related to what I was visualising.... Mar 28 19:32:38 alright, I will right this proposal and submit it today, hopefully Mar 28 19:32:48 cool Mar 28 19:33:06 thanks for the infos. Mar 28 19:33:13 you reassured me that it might be worthwhile Mar 28 19:34:04 :) Mar 28 20:46:50 anyone know if the GTA02 will work on a cdma network such as alltel? Mar 28 20:47:00 It will not Mar 28 20:47:04 damn Mar 28 20:47:05 GSM only Mar 28 20:51:04 Awesome Mar 28 20:51:22 why did they choose to go with GSM rather than CDMA? Mar 28 20:51:27 My matchbox keyboard is ignoring shift & caps lock for all keys on the right side of the kbd Mar 28 20:51:43 cdma is closed; gsm is an open standard Mar 28 20:51:47 oh Mar 28 20:51:47 lunartear: because gsm is global. cdma is not. Mar 28 20:52:11 cdma is being shut down in many coutnries that used to use it and is simply not available in many others Mar 28 20:52:15 gsm seems slow Mar 28 20:52:32 with a gsm phone u can pretty much get a phone signal and make/recieve calls in every country... except japan. Mar 28 20:53:08 lunartear, are you referring to data communication? Mar 28 20:53:14 dcode yeah Mar 28 20:54:39 arent transfer speeds significantly less on gsm than cdma? Mar 28 20:54:54 lunartear, well GSM is the same generation as cdma.....for high speed 3G access, you need something along the lines of UMTS Mar 28 20:55:19 which some GSM and some CDMA networks are providing in addition to their current infrastructure Mar 28 20:55:24 Which is a totally different story when you're using a device with 2.5G anyway. :P Mar 28 20:55:49 I'm not a telephony expert, btw, I'm just spouting off what I've read and how I understand the networks to operate Mar 28 20:57:29 really, I suppose it all comes down to the factor that raster indicated....GSM is everywhere Mar 28 20:57:34 dcode, you probably know more than I do... I'm also basing on what i read Mar 28 20:57:59 most of my knowledge in this arena comes from the collective knowledge at Wikipedia :D Mar 28 20:58:16 all the fast data would be pointless if u cant even make a call Mar 28 20:58:30 heh.. one does need to take wikipedia with a grain of salt though since its not 100% factual Mar 28 20:58:30 and if u ant to have users across the world make calls - gsm is it. Mar 28 20:58:41 openmoko is already serving a very very very niche market Mar 28 20:58:57 by makign it cdma u cut a tiny market into an even tinier size (like 1/10th) Mar 28 20:59:00 raster, point well made... I was just curious Mar 28 20:59:13 it wouldnt be viable as a phone then at all Mar 28 20:59:36 there are high speed data connection methods with gsm Mar 28 20:59:42 gprs was the first Mar 28 20:59:45 them umts Mar 28 20:59:49 then hsdpa Mar 28 20:59:53 now huspa as well Mar 28 20:59:57 what does GTA02 support there? Mar 28 21:00:08 huspa i think is the in the multiple mbit rage or so Mar 28 21:00:12 like 1.5-3 Mar 28 21:00:20 gta02 is up to gprs Mar 28 21:00:30 thats about 40kbit last i checked Mar 28 21:00:47 i skippd edge which is between gprs and umts :) Mar 28 21:01:54 hmm Mar 28 21:03:13 im trying to figure out which carrier around here I should use Mar 28 21:03:32 one that supports gsm Mar 28 21:03:33 :) Mar 28 21:03:43 where is here? Mar 28 21:06:17 apparently it is nowhere Mar 28 21:06:37 maybe the moon? Mar 28 21:11:12 here is Kansas, U.S. Mar 28 21:11:33 AT&T? Mar 28 21:11:40 They suck, but they're everywhere Mar 28 21:11:41 lunartear, T-Mobile, AT&T, many of the smaller carriers. Mar 28 21:11:51 there's a local carrier that supports gsm gprs but they are a smaller network Mar 28 21:12:03 Sprint and Verizon are no-nos (for now... Verizon will be GSM by 2010) Mar 28 21:12:22 lunartear, Do they have a roaming agreement with a bigger one? Mar 28 21:12:42 kdean06: most likely.. I havent looked that deep Mar 28 21:12:43 For instance, a lot of small carriers work with the big ones so their customers still have service out of the area. Mar 28 21:13:12 they are definately cheaper for the minutes Mar 28 21:13:17 In the US today, it's SUICIDE not to do that for free unless there's a lockout ala Kentucky or West Virginia. Mar 28 21:14:29 http://www.westlinkcom.com/ Mar 28 21:16:29 No reason that wouldn't work for you assuming they offer you coverage where you go. Mar 28 21:16:48 lunartear, Their "pay as you go" services would also work just fine, if you wanted to test it out. Mar 28 21:17:05 yeah Mar 28 21:17:46 lunartear, not sure what side of KS you're on, but I know on the KC side, T-Mobile has excellent data coverage Mar 28 21:18:33 I've used it rather extensively from just south of KC (Harrisonville) up past Ft Leavenworth and St. Joseph Mar 28 21:18:40 im smack dab in the middle an hour northwest of Wichita Mar 28 21:18:58 also along the I-70 corridor has good coverage until you get to CO Mar 28 21:19:22 i was originally asking about alltel because their rural coverage is supreme to the rest Mar 28 21:19:51 I've heard good things about alltel and roamed on their network....but never used them directly Mar 28 21:20:02 I've been with T-Mobile since I lived in BFE Kentucky... Mar 28 21:20:11 Data works well in Salina and Hays Mar 28 21:20:34 I've been with T-Mobile since they were VoiceStream Mar 28 21:20:52 I think they bought a number of Alltel towers in Missouri at the time Mar 28 21:20:56 there's also us cellular here that used to be cellularone Mar 28 21:21:27 Choose the state in the middle of nowhere Mar 28 21:21:30 meh...not a big fan....but that's due to my interactions with them with corporate accounts Mar 28 21:21:37 Choose the town in the middle of nowhere in that state Mar 28 21:21:42 I'm an hour away from that :-) Mar 28 21:21:46 wurp2, lol Mar 28 21:21:54 wurp2 lol Mar 28 21:21:56 That sounds like where I grew up ;-) Mar 28 21:22:20 I go to school in Rolla, MO....where the town slogan used to be "The Middle of Everywhere" Mar 28 21:22:41 incidentally, that is equivalent to saying it's "The middle of nowhere" Mar 28 21:22:42 Cool, I lived in MO and KS as a kid Mar 28 21:22:51 all places are equidistant from us Mar 28 21:23:27 St. Louis? 120 Miles.....Springfield? 120 miles....Columbia? 120 miles? Mar 28 21:23:28 :-( Mar 28 21:24:39 haha....just checked....Arkansas? 120 miles Mar 28 21:24:43 * mwester just wants to know what practical joker decided that "Kansas City" was a good name for a city on the Missouri side of the state line. Mar 28 21:25:30 Well, isn't it just an extension of KC, KS? Mar 28 21:25:46 wurp2, no...KC, MO is bigger than KC, KS Mar 28 21:25:57 But I thought they were contiguous Mar 28 21:26:05 dcode, population wise yes.. but im not sure which was established first Mar 28 21:26:11 I think what happened, is that it started on the border....everyone decided that KS was too boring of a state to claim, so they hopped over to the MO side Mar 28 21:26:25 lol Mar 28 21:26:36 hehe Mar 28 21:26:39 did the state line change at any point? Mar 28 21:27:00 from somewhere in MO to the river Mar 28 21:27:11 I don't about that one, but haven't there been arguments about the state line in places where the Mississippi has shifted course? Mar 28 21:27:24 hell i dunno Mar 28 21:27:28 Those bastards all up in ur land, stealing ur cityc Mar 28 21:27:39 yeah....there are parts of IL on the missouri side of the mississippi and there are parts of MO on the IL side Mar 28 21:27:44 thats 1800's shit I slept in history class Mar 28 21:28:37 there is an island in the middle of the river that has a couple hundred acres of IL land and a couple hundred of MO land....it's popular for hunting, so you have to be careful on which side of the line you are on Mar 28 21:28:49 I've always wondered when the "New" will be dropped. Mar 28 21:28:50 b/c the conservation agents from both states hang out waiting for you Mar 28 21:28:55 lol Mar 28 21:29:26 kdean06, I think it stays "New" until they remove the price tag, or some one comes out with an updated version Mar 28 21:29:32 then they can call it "York 3.0" Mar 28 21:30:09 Oh man... Mar 28 21:32:49 I would like to build a fullscreen hw/accelerated scroll widget thingie. The video hardware on GTA01 has some viewport-offset registers. But how to map that to the X11 protocol ??? Mar 28 21:33:33 Does anybody know if it is possible to use X11's virtual screen thing for these kind of ideas ? Mar 28 21:39:48 thseiler: No one here, apparently Mar 28 21:40:02 wurp2: seems so, thanks anyway... Mar 28 21:40:56 thseiler: basically u can't Mar 28 21:41:12 its kind of a lost cause if u have a dumb fb Mar 28 21:42:01 raster: isn't it a problem of abstraction ? the dump fb does not reflect the possibilities of the hw. Mar 28 21:42:25 no - it doesnt Mar 28 21:42:31 as its pretty much not worth the effort Mar 28 21:43:00 with enough code, anything can be done Mar 28 21:43:05 but is it worth it... ? Mar 28 21:43:06 :) Mar 28 21:45:40 raster: i see your point, thanks for answering... Mar 28 21:46:28 the gta01 is not produced anymore Mar 28 21:46:32 it was a limited run Mar 28 21:46:51 and frankly any hw when it gets gfx accel gets much more than viewport shifting Mar 28 21:46:57 and so u use that in a more gneric way Mar 28 21:47:13 even in this day and age simple bliting for scrolling is almost passe Mar 28 21:47:25 as u'd actually redraw as u composite the buffer for a new position Mar 28 21:49:46 raster: but is there a toolkit that actually can take advandate of this on GTA02 ? Mar 28 21:50:03 the blitting? Mar 28 21:50:08 or a complete recomposite? Mar 28 21:50:22 thseiler: compositing Mar 28 21:50:47 raster: you would need opengl first Mar 28 21:51:18 will illume be the default window manager for the freerunner now? Mar 28 21:51:31 it looks pretty promising Mar 28 21:52:24 thseiler: that depends how much u composite thjings together - do u need alpha Mar 28 21:52:31 right now the drivers dont support what the glamo can do Mar 28 21:52:40 and the glamo can only do a limited set of these things Mar 28 21:52:57 thseiler: and u dont need opengl - why does everyone think u need opengl for this stuff? Mar 28 21:53:04 baze: illume isn't a wm Mar 28 21:53:08 :) Mar 28 21:53:30 oh, then i misunderstood sth Mar 28 21:53:43 the whole new gui, or what? Mar 28 21:54:00 raster: You mean it's a toy to make hot chicks hit on the user, right? Mar 28 21:54:02 ;) Mar 28 21:58:11 raster: cool, i always believed that XComposite was guild on top of openGL, but I now see that they are independent interfaces. I still have to learn a lot... Mar 28 21:59:09 baze: illume is a module for enlightenment (e17) that modifies its look, feel and behavior Mar 28 21:59:21 abraxa_: HAHAHAHAH Mar 28 21:59:57 thseiler: utterly incorrect. xcompoite doesnyt composite anything. it just forces rendering to go to pixmaps for a window and givews access to those pixmaps Mar 28 22:02:49 raster: ok, where is the compositing done, then ? Mar 28 22:03:41 that depends Mar 28 22:03:45 raster: in XRender ? Mar 28 22:03:48 xrender is one api to do it Mar 28 22:03:56 u can grab pixel data form x and do it in software Mar 28 22:04:05 u can also grab pixmaps and convert to textures and use opengl to do the compositing Mar 28 22:04:18 it's "up to you" (or the programmer writing a compositor) Mar 28 22:10:37 raster: What i'm basically after is a full screen viewport, that shows a canvas bigger than the screen, that i can scroll without blitting. Mar 28 22:11:16 raster: that is, without copying memory around Mar 28 22:11:27 i know :) Mar 28 22:11:47 u can just bypass x and work on the fb driver level Mar 28 22:11:48 ... Mar 28 22:11:49 if u want Mar 28 22:14:14 you' Mar 28 22:14:16 d have to, i think Mar 28 22:14:31 the hardware can do a viewport but i'm pretty sure it isn't exposed Mar 28 22:14:34 x itself doesnt provide good infra for this Mar 28 22:14:39 it can Mar 28 22:14:41 in theory Mar 28 22:14:48 but in reality... Mar 28 22:14:53 "it's not worth it" Mar 28 22:19:26 raster: anrp: thanks a lot for all the advice. I think i will have to blit then... Mar 28 22:20:36 :) Mar 28 22:20:48 the blit method will scale beyond simple hw Mar 28 22:20:51 well into the future Mar 28 22:20:58 the composite method will too Mar 28 22:21:02 and give u much more freedom Mar 28 22:21:19 (i.e - u redraw the whole screen but the hw is fast enough to do it) Mar 28 22:26:24 Does anyone know of any profiling tools that can be used on the neo1973 which will one to determine which portions of a C program are burning up the most CPU time? Mar 28 22:29:38 rtm: have you tried to gprof you app on x86 already ? Mar 28 22:31:20 No, that I have not tried. Since there is a lot of floating point calculations in my code, I worry that the execution times on a machine with FP hardware might not closely match that of the neo, which must do all FP in software. Mar 28 22:58:55 rtm: hm, if i run make build-package-binutils in my environment, i get binutils.ipk that contains a /usr/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gprof that has been compiled for arm. My battery is empty at the moment, so i can't test if it really works. Mar 28 23:00:29 thseiler: Thanks for looking into that! I'll give that a try. Mar 28 23:02:48 hey Mar 28 23:03:05 does anyone have plans for 'an icon-launcher on the home screen' ? Mar 28 23:37:18 hello! Mar 28 23:49:05 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r112 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.Storage.xml: org.freesmartphone.Storage.xml: primary_key is string everywhere Mar 28 23:54:51 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r113 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phonebook.xml: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phonebook.xml: add comments about moving this interface Mar 29 00:05:24 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r114 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml: fix parameter directions (courtesy ixonos) Mar 29 00:08:04 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r115 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml: fix subscribernumbers signal (courtesy ixonos) Mar 29 00:10:52 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r116 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml: GetFeatures is a{sv}, improve name for setting the antenna power Mar 29 00:32:35 could anyone look on if my email arrived there? (frederik.sdun@*)? Mar 29 00:43:50 it's finished!!! Mar 29 00:43:51 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian Mar 29 00:44:13 if you're lazy you can download a ready to use tar archive Mar 29 00:44:14 wget http://rabenfrost.net/debian/debian-armel-xfce.tar.gz Mar 29 00:44:32 just extract to your sd and enjoy debian on your neo1973! Mar 29 00:44:51 yay! Mar 29 00:45:42 That's impressive, but what can you do with Debian that you can't do with the standard Openmoko code base? Mar 29 00:45:55 Now all that's needed is some way to swap between the two magically on different VTs Mar 29 00:46:27 Virtualiztion is the next frontier. Mar 29 00:46:50 rtm, well you have a *full* distro - no cramped busybox apps and you have man, gcc, a huge software repo Mar 29 00:46:58 it currently runs xfce very well Mar 29 00:47:28 OK - that does sound quite cool. Mar 29 00:47:43 SpeedEvil, why not run two x servers on debian? one with matchbox and openmoko and one with another wm? Mar 29 00:48:10 rtm, I finally can compile my code natively without bitbake crosscompilation Mar 29 00:48:48 josch: So you're actually running gcc on the neo itself? Mar 29 00:49:00 of course! Mar 29 00:49:28 it's slow like hell but much easier than writing bb recipies for code I simply want to try out Mar 29 00:49:39 just configure, make, make install as usual Mar 29 00:49:44 2op "Wow - are you able to have all the scratch files put on ramdisk, so it doesn't do lots of write to the flash? Mar 29 00:50:16 rtm, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian <= look at fstab - everything is mounted noatime Mar 29 00:50:24 It would be really something to see a desktop UI on the neo. Mar 29 00:50:50 rtm, there are enough screenshots for you ^^ Mar 29 00:51:43 One of the neatest things is that you need the full VGA screen to make it at all usable. Does any other cell phone have full VGA? Mar 29 00:52:15 some htc devices Mar 29 00:52:23 the universal for instance Mar 29 00:52:29 Oh. I hadn't run across one. Mar 29 00:56:25 josch, that's fantastic! Mar 29 00:59:56 josch: What's the graphics performance like? If you drag windows around, is it fairly responsive? Mar 29 01:00:20 hehe Mar 29 01:00:26 Oh.... Mar 29 01:00:34 i even can enable compositing effects Mar 29 01:00:43 shadows... Mar 29 01:00:48 transparency... Mar 29 01:00:50 really? Mar 29 01:01:03 I can drag windows around while they are fully transparent Mar 29 01:01:12 wget http://rabenfrost.net/debian/debian-armel-xfce.tar.gz Mar 29 01:01:17 try it out yourselves! Mar 29 01:01:20 Is there anyway you could make a video, and post it to someplace like utube? Mar 29 01:01:23 Don't - you'll make raster explode! :) Mar 29 01:01:27 with this ready to use archive it's really easy now Mar 29 01:01:36 SpeedEvil, hehe Mar 29 01:01:59 rtm, i dont have a cam that makes good videos at such a short distance Mar 29 01:02:10 and i will never ever convert content I made to flash Mar 29 01:02:20 Too bad. I think there'd be a lot of interest. Mar 29 01:02:39 give me a cam and I will upload a video to my webspace Mar 29 01:02:45 you can use rapidupload Mar 29 01:02:53 rtm, until then everybody can download the archive Mar 29 01:03:03 SpeedEvil, dont need to - I have plenty of bandwidth Mar 29 01:04:02 Tried apache yet? Mar 29 01:04:15 only lighty Mar 29 01:04:21 apache is much more useless overhead Mar 29 01:05:07 What's the most bizarre thing you've run on it? Mar 29 01:05:14 hrm... Mar 29 01:05:30 hehe Mar 29 01:05:36 I think it was gentoo Mar 29 01:05:40 gentoo is fun on the neo Mar 29 01:05:55 fun waiting for your compilation to complete on every single emerge Mar 29 01:05:58 ^^ Mar 29 01:07:00 the squashfs - performance on the neo is amazing! thanks to Marcel_M for his kernel modules Mar 29 01:07:13 I'm now going to install sphinx search Mar 29 01:07:22 is it possible to have a gentoo with distcc. might be crappy because of the WLAN. Mar 29 01:07:45 lol wlan? Mar 29 01:07:55 * josch only has neo1073 ^^ Mar 29 01:08:02 neo1973 even Mar 29 01:08:55 How 'bout Seti-In-Pocket? Mar 29 01:09:03 usbnet is lame too Mar 29 01:09:15 rtm, lol nice idea Mar 29 01:09:34 josch, sphinx to do what? voice rec? Mar 29 01:09:52 Ghiottone, no the other sphinx Mar 29 01:10:12 http://www.sphinxsearch.com/ Mar 29 01:10:21 this engine is *very* powerful Mar 29 01:10:50 can search few gigabytes of wikipedia fulltext on the desktop in a fraction of a second Mar 29 01:11:30 ah. nice I did not know there was another sphinx :) Mar 29 01:11:36 fulltext wikipedia searching in under a minute would be enough for me to implement it in the next mokopedia version Mar 29 01:21:15 good night guys! see ya tomorrow! Mar 29 01:21:22 Last time I tried my moko could not boot from sd Mar 29 01:21:30 which version is working? Mar 29 01:21:33 nite josch Mar 29 01:22:31 hello mickey|zzZZzz Mar 29 01:22:41 hi and g'night Mar 29 01:23:10 nite :) Mar 29 01:24:35 is there a recommended u-boot version for gta01 users that want to boot from SD and not brick their device? Mar 29 01:35:41 http://pastebin.ca/961653 Mar 29 01:35:48 my make broke. Mar 29 01:35:54 Any thoughts? Mar 29 01:38:10 how do I tell it 'delete everything about task 1610' NOTE: Running task 1610 of 5445 (ID: 3998, /mnt/data/om/openembedded/packages/webkit/webkit-gtk_svn.bb, do_unpack) Mar 29 01:38:16 which fails Mar 29 01:38:18 and redownload Mar 29 01:38:56 It may have run out of disk space Mar 29 01:42:35 josch: counting downloads? Mar 29 02:33:44 josch: seriously, debian looks awesome Mar 29 02:33:53 my neo's at the office or I'd install it tonight Mar 29 02:34:07 I just bought an 8gb sdhc in debian's honor Mar 29 02:35:31 I can see building the field service apps on the debian platform...just a little easier for us I'd think. WxPython ftw **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 29 02:59:56 2008