**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 31 03:00:02 2008 Mar 31 03:10:46 openmoko: 03tick * r4270 10/developers/tick/pkg-group-list/ (. gta02-freerunner-tag.list): Mar 31 03:10:46 openmoko: adding pkg group configure tag file Mar 31 03:10:46 openmoko: This will later merge into OE Mar 31 04:28:15 ugh... stupid fire alarm Mar 31 04:28:24 people should not burn food after 10pm Mar 31 05:03:10 woot! setting up OM inside of ubuntu inside of OS X Mar 31 05:16:28 omfg Mar 31 05:21:27 dont even think "iphone" or there will be infinite recursion and this http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/ysoab.jpg Mar 31 07:03:04 roflmao: http://digg.com/music/www_youtube_com_watch_v_eBGIQ7ZuuiU_is_GONE Mar 31 07:03:22 the first group of comments... Mar 31 07:17:29 i've still yet to understand why people think linking that is funny Mar 31 07:18:09 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r118 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Mar 31 07:18:09 freesmartphone.org: Added dbus method replies to sms functions. Mar 31 07:18:09 freesmartphone.org: Added checks to gobject reply and return methods that dbus method context was set. Mar 31 07:36:52 * ScaredyCat wonders is e programmers routinely give their apps stupid names... Mar 31 07:37:01 s/is/if/ Mar 31 07:40:21 ask raster :) Mar 31 07:43:17 good morning Mar 31 07:43:47 for some days now I am running into problems with mokomakefile Mar 31 07:44:35 at first I just though: I'd just wait some days and then the problem will be gone, but it is still there Mar 31 07:44:58 and as google tells me: there have been earlier occurences Mar 31 07:45:12 but that hit has no solution, unfortunately Mar 31 07:45:42 lorenz_, what problem? Mar 31 07:45:49 I get the same error as in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20071005.txt posted by gnu Mar 31 07:46:25 ending in a trace with "ValueError: substring not found" Mar 31 07:46:53 just at the beginning, quite confusing Mar 31 07:47:24 maybe some bitbake-problem (though I tried even downgrading to some previous version, that worked well) Mar 31 07:48:32 here is the full error: http://pastebin.com/m124df481 Mar 31 07:53:44 I do have all requirements installed (I am both using OE for some own distribution and for OM), tried different bitbake versions and all the stuff in that log I posted (and just like in that log: without any success) Mar 31 07:54:29 my host's distribution is Ubuntu (7.10) Mar 31 07:54:43 anyone another idea? Mar 31 08:28:31 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4271 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/startup_unintrusive.wav: sound: update a new startup sound file Mar 31 08:44:59 hrmmm... ^^ Mar 31 08:45:11 waaup with the old one :( Mar 31 08:45:24 unless the new one says 'Hello Moko' :D Mar 31 08:54:14 or again that really old one, blowing away one's ears :-P Mar 31 08:57:48 * ScaredyCat takes a backup just in case Mar 31 09:09:11 good morning Mar 31 09:41:46 eu Mar 31 10:10:57 openmoko: 03thomas * r4272 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/dialer-main.c): Mar 31 10:10:57 openmoko: 2008-03-31 Thomas Wood Mar 31 10:10:57 openmoko: * src/dialer/dialer-main.c: (dial_clicked_cb), (program_log), Mar 31 10:10:57 openmoko: (main): Add profiling helper code Mar 31 10:11:24 mornin' Mar 31 11:29:39 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4273 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c): openmoko-messages2: fix send key problem Mar 31 11:32:35 * ScaredyCat marvels at the response to 'Community member of the week' .... Mar 31 11:44:14 ScaredyCat: a *huge* response. Mar 31 11:44:14 * ScaredyCat nominates his lunch Mar 31 11:44:36 awesome it is.... :P Mar 31 11:45:29 there's 6 times more votes at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 Mar 31 11:45:44 perhaps 'of the week' was a little ambitious... Mar 31 11:46:09 yeah, the prze is better there though .. :) Mar 31 11:46:13 prize Mar 31 11:47:25 ScaredyCat: I've added a link :-) Mar 31 11:48:23 :) Mar 31 11:50:17 those two nominees will do quite well, assuming they alternate each week ;) Mar 31 11:50:36 might be able to start an openmoko t-shirt shop.. Mar 31 11:52:31 :) Mar 31 11:53:02 the blueprints of the t-shirt should be printed on the t-shirt :D Mar 31 12:00:23 ScaredyCat: hehe Mar 31 12:01:02 i bet if the prize was a gta02.... Mar 31 12:05:46 * ScaredyCat points at the link rwhitby gave... Mar 31 12:06:16 given a choice.. I'd rather save my votes for an 02... ;) Mar 31 12:06:51 has anyone tried icecc ? Mar 31 12:38:46 my youtube encoding server lives :) Mar 31 12:58:13 you're encoding the youtube server ? ;) Mar 31 13:13:59 hello there ... anybody knows if there's a project up for developing a graphical login manager ? Mar 31 13:19:23 gpe-login? Mar 31 13:37:31 uhm, that's part of the gpe project ... anything else strictly related to OpenMoko ? Mar 31 13:42:43 francesco__: quite unlikly... that's not what people expect from a phone Mar 31 13:56:18 ~lart ScaredyCat Mar 31 13:56:18 * apt farts in ScaredyCat's general direction Mar 31 14:07:40 Hmm. What's the int size on that ARM? Sphinx code pretty much depends Mar 31 14:07:40 on int being at least 32-bit. Mar 31 14:07:49 does anybody know? Mar 31 14:16:21 I have access to an nslu2, how can I tell? Mar 31 14:16:27 josch: 32bits. Mar 31 14:16:34 raster, thx i thought so Mar 31 14:16:41 int is 32 pretty much anywhere Mar 31 14:16:48 in facr i chalenge u to find a platform where its not Mar 31 14:16:57 (or not able to be or not by default) Mar 31 14:17:11 last i rememebr the sgi compiler back in 996 had an OPTION to enable 16bit ints Mar 31 14:17:20 nothing i know of implments 64bit ints (by default) Mar 31 14:17:27 * pjz thinks turbo pascal's original 'int' was only 16 bits on an x86 in approximately 1989 Mar 31 14:17:33 as such int becoming something other than 32bits will break like 90% of software Mar 31 14:17:52 raster: a little less these days hopefully with the advent of 64bit machines Mar 31 14:17:59 pjz: by find i mean a platform that i styill alive and in use that people WANT to use Mar 31 14:18:00 :) Mar 31 14:18:22 thank god 64bit didnt break the size of an int Mar 31 14:18:22 :) Mar 31 14:20:36 but pointer are annoying :) Mar 31 14:20:56 ahhahaah Mar 31 14:21:28 I wonder how people manage to make programs that break when the size of a pointer changes... Mar 31 14:21:56 Do they write malloc(4) instead of malloc(sizeof(void*)) or what? Mar 31 14:22:06 http://xkcd.com/138/ Mar 31 14:22:39 do you just have xkcd memorized? Mar 31 14:23:10 no only a few ones - the rest I search via google Mar 31 14:23:16 josch owns xkcd-shirts - do I have to say more? :) Mar 31 14:23:25 thomasg_, I own two of them Mar 31 14:23:41 so, I would buy one if I had money Mar 31 14:24:24 !google xkcd pointer Mar 31 14:24:25 Sign in @ https://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=xkcd+pointer&safe=off&btnG=Search&lr=lang_all&hl=en | reddit.com: xkcd: How to Refer to The @ http://reddit.com/info/1embr/comments/%20class=l | xkcd • View topic - The "IT DOESN'T WO @ http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=578564%20class=l Mar 31 14:24:46 summatusmentis, how goes Mar 31 14:24:47 wtf Mar 31 14:25:02 why is !google different to my google? Mar 31 14:25:02 what Mar 31 14:25:15 Sup3rkiddo: well enough, waiting to see if there's gonna be an extension Mar 31 14:25:37 summatusmentis, there isnt?....been out of action for the last two days.. Mar 31 14:25:48 and if there ends up being one, I want more feedback from mickeyl Mar 31 14:26:01 yeah me too Mar 31 14:26:02 Sup3rkiddo: no, not yet. The decision will be made today(obviously) Mar 31 14:26:52 * Sup3rkiddo got a new machine..so forgot about gsoc for a while Mar 31 14:27:24 what decision summatusmentis?? sth abt gsoc Mar 31 14:27:32 sorry i joined in late Mar 31 14:27:55 ashish: the decision by google as to whether or not there is an extension on the application timeline Mar 31 14:28:08 ok Mar 31 14:28:35 from google import extension Mar 31 14:28:42 extenstion.give() Mar 31 14:29:14 i applied for bluetooth remote and mythtv integration but mickeyl told that they are looking for some diff projects Mar 31 14:29:45 I don't know who 'they' is, mickeyl seems to be the only person who knows anything about GSoC for OM Mar 31 14:29:46 why should then they post these ideas Mar 31 14:30:23 yes i talked to him Mar 31 14:30:58 summatusmentis, got any feedback yet..how is your other gsoc proposal coming up Mar 31 14:31:17 they posted ideas that parts of the commuity wanted, and were open to having done Mar 31 14:31:24 it doesn't mean they won't prioritize them Mar 31 14:31:37 brb Mar 31 14:31:49 Sup3rkiddo: mickeyl posted some feedback on my application, and I went back and changed it again. Both my apps are in, I'm just waiting at this point Mar 31 14:33:22 at last i can just hope for the best Mar 31 14:33:47 its just the feeling that i worked for the proposal and then i find it its not much required Mar 31 14:34:07 best of luck to you summatusmentis Mar 31 14:34:45 ashish: it's obviously required, or they wouldn't have put it on the ideas page Mar 31 14:34:59 it may just not be GSoC worthy, OM will probably only get 3 or 4 application spots Mar 31 14:35:04 they'l have to prioritize Mar 31 14:36:47 whats your proposal about summatusmentis Mar 31 14:38:31 odeviced, a dbus based modular hardware control daemon Mar 31 14:39:15 cool stuff!! Mar 31 14:41:41 we'll see if I get it. Sup3rkiddo submitted the same basic premise Mar 31 14:42:00 can you actually code though :P Mar 31 14:42:25 I can, that doesn't mean I have the experience to do it well, or implement stuff correctly Mar 31 14:42:56 well, you could speak to raster.... Mar 31 14:43:32 ... he's made a career out of it... Mar 31 14:43:36 ;) Mar 31 14:43:39 lol Mar 31 14:44:01 * ScaredyCat hes from raster and his openmoko keyboard Mar 31 14:44:06 then Mar 31 14:44:10 * ScaredyCat hides from raster and his openmoko keyboard Mar 31 14:44:16 lol, oh Mar 31 14:44:33 I'm really hoping to get it, it's an exciting project Mar 31 14:44:59 it will be ... especially as it's important too... Mar 31 14:45:10 kind of key in fact Mar 31 14:45:27 ScaredyCat: :P Mar 31 14:45:29 get it right and you'll be lauded... Mar 31 14:45:32 summatusmentis: what do you do if you get accepted for both? Mar 31 14:45:41 you don't get accepted for both Mar 31 14:45:57 if two orgs want you, they have an epic laser driven battle Mar 31 14:46:01 last person standing gets you Mar 31 14:46:06 lol Mar 31 14:46:08 nice Mar 31 14:47:27 no, but somehow the two orgs work out who gets the student Mar 31 14:47:43 ScaredyCat: see, that's what I'm worried about. I'd get it wrong, and be murdered Mar 31 14:48:27 * cb22 lures summatusmentis with the promise of a broken neo Mar 31 14:49:07 cb22: a broken neo, work for 3 months, get killed because I'm not that good, and my solution bites Mar 31 14:49:35 as bugzilla says - '"This list is full of weird people" - "We paid $300 for a phone we knew wouldn't work right, I think we're all a bit weird."' Mar 31 14:50:00 summatusmentis: nah, half the fun is learning Mar 31 14:50:04 sure, but the end result of death still may not make it worth while :) Mar 31 14:50:58 look at it this way - if that happens, the world will have one less crappy programmer :p Mar 31 14:51:21 lol, oh gee, that helps me feel better :) Mar 31 14:51:56 lol Mar 31 14:52:08 btw, what language you planning on using? c? Mar 31 14:52:20 cb22: mickeyl wants Vala Mar 31 14:52:25 I don't know Vala Mar 31 14:52:31 so I don't know Mar 31 14:52:44 Vala's just C on steroids ;) Mar 31 14:53:00 well, that's fair Mar 31 14:53:22 I like Java, because it has an easy doc system. I haven't really looked, but I don't know about C/C++ docs Mar 31 14:53:26 eww Mar 31 14:53:28 java Mar 31 14:53:29 ewww Mar 31 14:53:39 also, I thought Vala was in like version 0.1.6, or something like that Mar 31 14:53:50 summatusmentis: Javadoc + doxygen works just fine imo Mar 31 14:54:22 cb22: I taught myself C/C++, and didn't ever really know anything about docs/libraries for these languages Mar 31 14:55:21 tbh summatusmentis I think your mentor should catch any issues well before you get strung up... Mar 31 14:55:44 ScaredyCat: I would hope so Mar 31 14:55:53 depends on who my mentor is, and how much time they have Mar 31 14:56:03 .. of course, you can't reason with a mob ;) Mar 31 14:56:23 there is that too Mar 31 14:56:51 I wouldn;t worry about it too much, if you do you'll be paying too much attention to that and not enough to the work... Mar 31 14:57:04 ScaredyCat: Depends. Germans put a lot of emphasis on doing work on one's own instead of bugging other people all the time - and most SoC mentors for OM are German, so... Mar 31 14:57:06 I mean look at e.17 .... Mar 31 14:57:14 I can worry until I get the project :) Mar 31 14:57:20 ... it took raster 17 goes to get that right... Mar 31 14:57:22 once I get the project, it's a different story Mar 31 14:57:24 * ScaredyCat gigggles Mar 31 14:57:28 * ScaredyCat runs away Mar 31 14:57:45 :-P Mar 31 14:58:07 I don't have time for 17 tries :) Mar 31 14:58:17 actually, the clouds opened a voice said 'let there be e', and one the 17th day, e17 was born Mar 31 14:58:38 raster: any plans for e18 :p? Mar 31 14:58:42 abraxa_: no, I mean summatusmentis shouldn't worry too much, otherwise summatusmentis wont write code, will just worry.. Mar 31 14:58:53 cb22: yes. when e17 is done :) Mar 31 14:58:59 ScaredyCat: Oh. Yeah, I fully agree with that :) Mar 31 14:59:44 I don't get to write code until I get the project, so until that point, I get to worry Mar 31 14:59:50 thank you very much! :D Mar 31 14:59:56 lol... Mar 31 15:00:08 yeah, we hears rumours about who got it... Mar 31 15:00:11 heard Mar 31 15:00:35 the decision shouldn't be made for a couple weeks yet, don't tell me that :) Mar 31 15:00:59 key words ... "shouldn't be" Mar 31 15:01:12 * ScaredyCat pokes summatusmentis with a teasing stick Mar 31 15:01:15 lol, I know Mar 31 15:04:29 ScaredyCat: Rumours? I like gossip :) Mar 31 15:04:45 apparently CM has 3 nipples Mar 31 15:05:52 lol Mar 31 15:15:11 summatusmentis, its been extended ;)...applied for ophoned as well? Mar 31 15:18:14 it's been extended? Mar 31 15:43:26 * summatusmentis goes to edit his app some more Mar 31 15:44:49 dooods Mar 31 15:45:01 who has an updat to date neo to hand? Mar 31 15:45:19 you mean gta02? Mar 31 15:45:26 my teacher is gone, bbiab Mar 31 15:45:41 I have a build as of yesterday that I could flash. Mar 31 15:51:32 SpeedEvil, well within last week or so will do Mar 31 15:51:46 SpeedEvil, how many revolutions does the little startup notify take to launch the dialer? Mar 31 15:51:54 flashing now Mar 31 15:52:48 thos, For me, on a Neo1973, about 3/4 to 1 full Mar 31 15:52:53 Cool... it's the day before April and the topic still says "maybe due April" :P Mar 31 15:53:11 bipolar, "maybe" being the operative word. :) Mar 31 15:53:19 heh Mar 31 15:56:39 Are we getting a GTA02 before 2009 ? Mar 31 15:57:31 2012 Mar 31 15:57:32 where does mmf put the images ? Mar 31 15:57:36 and counting Mar 31 15:57:52 ++ or --? Mar 31 15:57:55 j/k Mar 31 15:57:59 hehe Mar 31 15:58:02 SpeedEvil: i hope -- Mar 31 15:58:04 and quickluy Mar 31 15:58:05 :) Mar 31 15:58:24 is it possible to write java apps for OM ? Mar 31 15:58:30 i got no answer yesterday Mar 31 15:58:43 I hate Java but I'm just asking Mar 31 15:58:46 there is jalimo Mar 31 15:59:05 theres some page on the wiki with that info..worth the look Mar 31 16:00:12 thanks Mar 31 16:03:33 any reports latest uboot is flaky? Mar 31 16:04:16 oh well - moot point. Mar 31 16:04:59 hmm Mar 31 16:05:42 mickeyl published a gsm muxer, where can I get it? Mar 31 16:06:13 All good bookshops? Mar 31 16:06:18 :) Mar 31 16:06:18 * SpeedEvil has no clue. Mar 31 16:07:00 has anyone tried mmf on the debian rootfs image? Mar 31 16:08:28 ahven: http://buildhost.vanille.de/fic-gta01/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/gsm0710muxd_0.9.0%2bsvnr116-r0_armv4t.ipk Mar 31 16:09:12 aha :) Mar 31 16:09:19 will boot & check it out Mar 31 16:13:59 thos: about 4s - howver - I also have broken screen image. Mar 31 16:18:26 (dialer has a blank space down the right side showing the background, phone status icons on the topbar are over on the left, ... Mar 31 16:33:50 abraxa_: thanks, any usage instructions available? :) Mar 31 16:34:36 are there any screenshots of some evas ui for openmoko anywhere? Mar 31 16:35:28 ahven: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-March/002320.html Mar 31 16:37:25 baze_, http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/ Mar 31 16:37:56 yeah, i know those. are there any others at all? Mar 31 16:38:05 err Mar 31 16:38:09 baze_, there isn't anything else to it Mar 31 16:38:18 baze_, thats is all of it Mar 31 16:38:53 i thought there are more applications using evas according to projects.openmoko.org Mar 31 16:38:55 ok then Mar 31 16:38:58 baze_, I have a photo of it ... http://flickr.com/photos/13779044@N00/2341152111/ Mar 31 16:39:20 baze_, oh, one or two maybe, but nothing very interesting Mar 31 16:39:31 and certainly not anywhere near complete enough for screenshots Mar 31 16:41:39 damn, i want that ;) Mar 31 16:51:08 what would the best way to control an engine with a pc be? a servo wired up to the throttle connected to a microcontroller connected to a serial port? Mar 31 16:51:13 Mar 31 16:51:47 non well-formed bullshit detected! Mar 31 16:52:03 mm i'd think so Mar 31 16:52:07 servo is simple to control Mar 31 16:52:24 you need some feedback though, open loop control of an engine would likely end poorly Mar 31 16:53:18 intake vacuum and speed are good feedback values Mar 31 16:54:10 freescale makes some easily-interfacable pressure sensors... however in single quantities they're damn expensive Mar 31 16:54:13 $15 each Mar 31 16:54:45 if you only need 1, its fine :) Mar 31 16:54:51 true enough Mar 31 16:54:53 but it is something possible, right :) Mar 31 16:55:01 sure it is Mar 31 16:55:10 << building a semiautomated gocart for school project Mar 31 16:55:15 D: Mar 31 16:55:19 why not use an electric motor Mar 31 16:55:37 control is much, much easir Mar 31 16:55:43 +y Mar 31 16:55:43 petrol == vroom vroom Mar 31 16:55:53 not necessarily the case! Mar 31 16:56:03 er, well, a motor doesn't make noise Mar 31 16:56:09 but motors are not slow by any means Mar 31 16:56:16 although i havent totally discounted going electric, just the price Mar 31 16:56:29 ah, the great limiter Mar 31 16:56:36 i can get a 150cc for $100 Mar 31 16:56:40 yeah engines are super cheap Mar 31 16:57:03 dont suppose an old vacuum cleaner would do x) Mar 31 16:57:33 probably not .. ac motors can be finicky Mar 31 16:57:38 and need good controllers Mar 31 16:58:20 well, need good controllers for variable speed operation Mar 31 16:58:37 dc motors are much easier, just pwm the power lines Mar 31 16:59:46 on the other hand, quality small engines aren't really cheap either Mar 31 16:59:54 cb22: megasquirt Mar 31 16:59:55 i spent ~$300 for a 50cc honda Mar 31 17:00:14 i don't think he wants to fuel inject it.. Mar 31 17:00:18 although Mar 31 17:00:33 Why not? Mar 31 17:00:35 a turbocharged, fuel injected and fully instrumented 150cc engine would be a project in itself Mar 31 17:00:39 * anrp wonders Mar 31 17:00:48 Bluetooth serial - and you can control it from the neo. Mar 31 17:01:31 well, few small engines are fuel injected, so you'd need to convert it Mar 31 17:01:37 that's not trivial Mar 31 17:01:47 It's quite trivial. Mar 31 17:01:51 ... Mar 31 17:01:52 If you find a suitable injector. Mar 31 17:01:59 actually Mar 31 17:02:09 all you need is fuel pump and injector to do throttle body injection. Mar 31 17:02:16 i'm planning on using a freerunner as a remote control for it Mar 31 17:02:20 thats another pile of $ :\ Mar 31 17:02:22 its only for then end of the year Mar 31 17:02:34 so hopefully i'll have one. think james bond :p Mar 31 17:02:37 anrp: or a teeny pile if you go to the scrapyard. Mar 31 17:02:41 * SpeedEvil ponders. Mar 31 17:02:46 and get a pump larger than the engine? Mar 31 17:02:49 hmm Mar 31 17:02:54 I wonder what the smallest fuel iejcted bikes are. Mar 31 17:03:07 i'm pretty sure there are some 50cc FI scooters out there Mar 31 17:03:21 with electric fuel injection. Mar 31 17:03:34 ? Mar 31 17:03:39 mechanical went out of style a while ago Mar 31 17:03:45 I wasn't sure. Mar 31 17:03:54 It's not a corner of the world I look in often. Mar 31 17:04:05 you see it in diesel sometimes but that's because of the obscene pressures they use Mar 31 17:04:17 I'm only interested in fuel injection as I have a car I need to replace the ECU in. Mar 31 17:04:23 Well - largely. Mar 31 17:04:27 openmoko: 03thomas * r4275 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): Mar 31 17:04:27 openmoko: 2008-03-31 Thomas Wood Mar 31 17:04:27 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (page_shown), (sms_notes_page_new): Mar 31 17:04:27 openmoko: * src/sms.h: Mar 31 17:04:27 openmoko: Add a "new contact" button and display only when sender is unknown Mar 31 17:04:51 you also don't see small diesel engines around, which is a shame cause we could use one at work Mar 31 17:05:01 SpeedEvil: while you're at it, add a giant useless rear spoiler! Mar 31 17:05:06 a wing D: Mar 31 17:05:25 My other projects include an ornithopter. Mar 31 17:05:32 I could combine the two I suppose. Mar 31 17:05:43 a flying bird-mobile? Mar 31 17:05:58 No - not quite. Mar 31 17:06:02 ;o Mar 31 17:06:14 A biplane - with the wings flapping vertically in opposition. Mar 31 17:06:21 and remaining rigid. Mar 31 17:06:34 vertically or pivoted? Mar 31 17:07:16 the wings flap vertically up and down, and are pivoited appropriately to generate thrust. They move in opposition, so there is no net movement. Mar 31 17:07:57 er, i meant to ask are you pivoting on the root or moving the whole assembly vertically Mar 31 17:08:05 whole wing Mar 31 17:08:22 mmm Mar 31 17:08:41 It's structurally easier IMO. Mar 31 17:09:30 SpeedEvil: how ironic, I acutally applied to GSoC with an ornithopter as well :) Mar 31 17:09:38 :( Mar 31 17:09:50 * anrp looks for the code Mar 31 17:09:55 * SpeedEvil is a victim of googles discrimination against non-students. Mar 31 17:10:34 There is little or no code in this case. It's just a wing with maybe unusual stall charachteristics. Mar 31 17:10:46 you could be a mentor! Mar 31 17:11:14 I have no time. Mar 31 17:12:24 aww... I'm sorry Mar 31 17:12:42 I have health problems, and way too much stuff to do in the few days a week that I'm up to it. Compounded by lack of funds making these projects harder, meaning that I have less time to dedicate to stuff that I'd really like to do which won't actually generate near-term funds. Mar 31 17:15:52 Hence why SoC would have been really handy if it was applicable, as I could not worry about funding so much. Mar 31 17:16:45 no, that makes sense... Mar 31 17:17:05 Oh I know there are reasons why to limit it to students. Mar 31 17:17:14 SpeedEvil: 1) invent something cool 2) ??? 3) profit! Mar 31 17:17:25 cb22: 2 is the hard bit. Mar 31 17:17:31 indeed Mar 31 17:17:32 cb22: cool does not create profit Mar 31 17:17:37 2a) try to source the parts in small quantities Mar 31 17:17:38 just get google to buy it Mar 31 17:17:40 That's for sure. Mar 31 17:17:44 2b) raise funds to build some. Mar 31 17:17:44 it has to be something sophisticated pushed upon the masses by marketing Mar 31 17:17:50 2c) build prototypes Mar 31 17:17:58 unknown_lamer: the ??? is what creates the profit Mar 31 17:17:58 2d) hope prototypes work... Mar 31 17:18:08 Marketing creates profit; many a good idea has lost to a terrible inferior due to failure to market. Mar 31 17:19:16 At small volume - that's not really true. Mar 31 17:19:23 cb22: the ??? is convincing dumb marketing folk to steal your money and eventual profit ;-) Mar 31 17:19:28 In some markets word of mouth is adequate - the product sells itself. Mar 31 17:19:35 * cb22 thinks of om Mar 31 17:19:39 It's faster/smarter/better than ay other similar devices. Mar 31 17:19:50 (OTH, one must admit that when superior technology joins with outstanding marketing, the results are awesome -- witness Apple's design and packaging expertise combined with their marketing... Mar 31 17:19:52 ) Mar 31 17:20:21 openmoko: 03werner * r4276 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (5 files): (log message trimmed) Mar 31 17:20:21 openmoko: Change startup behaviour such that the LCM backlight serves as an indicator Mar 31 17:20:21 openmoko: that POWER can be released. Also flash the red LED briefly when powering up. Mar 31 17:20:21 openmoko: Doing this sensibly required adding a work-around for the GTA02v5 LED bug, Mar 31 17:20:22 openmoko: which is in gpb-shadow.patch Mar 31 17:20:24 openmoko: series, nor-default-env.patch: Mar 31 17:20:26 openmoko: - we have a better way to accomplish what nor-default-env.patch was intended to Mar 31 17:21:48 hi, i'm an iphone. and i'm a winmobile phone. and i'm an openmoko phone. iphone + winmobile> say, openmoko, what are you doing there? openmoko> oh nothing much, just rm'ing a few files. (iphone and winmobile disappear). openmoko> goddamed overused ads. Mar 31 17:21:50 Yeah - OM is an example. The eeepc also - even with no advertising - it'd have sold moderately significant numbers. Mar 31 17:23:02 In many ways OM tried not to sell the neo. Mar 31 17:23:29 they wanted to give them away for free? :) Mar 31 17:23:41 No. Mar 31 17:24:03 I mean the incompetance at selling it seemed almost intendede to dissuade people thinking of it. Mar 31 17:24:24 They put the brakes on the marketing, which almost had a reverse effect. I think some people bought only because it was positioned as something "not for the mass market". Mar 31 17:24:50 i.e. it became so difficult to get that it became more desirable. Mar 31 17:24:55 For example, no status updates on orders. No indication as to shipping times on the store (even when it was shipping immediately) Mar 31 17:25:19 No notes that 'we've got a large pile of them' or 'we're running out, and won't be making more'. Mar 31 17:25:22 * cb22 hopes act in order == true for the freerunner Mar 31 17:26:04 In many ways a simple ebay buy-it-now auction would have been a much more sane way of selling it. Mar 31 17:26:04 god i want a freerunner badly Mar 31 17:26:35 * cb22 slaps jimiridge with a coke straw Mar 31 17:26:38 get in line bitch Mar 31 17:26:54 jimiridge: I can sell you one badly! Mar 31 17:27:37 Also - the lack of progress early on on getting a dialer and gsmd that actually functioned. Mar 31 17:28:28 I think the GSoC model might have worked well. Mar 31 17:28:38 does gsmd work now? Mar 31 17:29:02 mostly. Mar 31 17:29:13 In that calls and SMSs often work with random builds. Mar 31 17:29:20 pft Mar 31 17:29:37 just time your builds with the phase of the moon, and you'll be fine Mar 31 17:29:46 and if I hangup at an odd time (say, before the other side answers) Mar 31 17:31:09 ah, who needs anything more than "cu /dev/ttySAC0" to dial and answer calls? Mar 31 17:31:23