**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 02 02:59:57 2008 Apr 02 03:15:46 is there a reason bugzilla keeps emailing everyone on the mailing list? Apr 02 03:16:06 well... on the devel list Apr 02 06:28:27 I am using latest openmoko build environment ,does libgsmd API's are changed there Apr 02 06:31:02 when building my code it is giving undefined reference to lgsm_passthrough,but i have included libgsmd.h Apr 02 06:51:32 For the neo! Apr 02 06:51:33 http://www.cinsk.org/emacs/emacs-artist.html Apr 02 06:53:57 i want to see the circles *g* Apr 02 07:01:54 * SpeedEvil ponders http://www.amazon.co.uk/Targus-Bluetooth-Thumbpad-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000JJIWZM/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207119678&sr=1-11 Apr 02 07:27:38 good morning Apr 02 07:28:10 Hopscotch, morning Apr 02 08:15:41 hello Apr 02 08:16:15 I'm wondering how to extract serial number out of the transflash Apr 02 08:16:32 anybody's got an idea ? Apr 02 08:16:54 I don't think there is a standard serial number. Apr 02 08:17:11 My limited reading indicates that there is only a 16 byte 'info' block Apr 02 08:19:15 Frank101: more to teh point - why? Apr 02 08:19:20 Why not use IMSI? Apr 02 08:19:55 jol: a decent soldering iron helps. And these are really cheap now. Apr 02 08:19:59 oops Apr 02 08:20:43 I know just that memory cards have a serial_no like this xxx(producer)-xxx(product no) Apr 02 08:21:08 I think the producer is simply a 2 byte code, as is product size Apr 02 08:26:17 good, so how do you read that information ? Apr 02 08:34:32 some bytes of it come out in the first lines of debug from the mmc driver Apr 02 08:34:48 some are not printed, and you'd have to hack the driver to print them by default. Apr 02 08:36:54 ok thx Apr 02 09:05:23 hi Apr 02 09:05:37 i am having problems building openmoko-image or similiar, because of a lack of the package librsvg-native Apr 02 09:05:46 any solutions for this? Apr 02 09:16:37 hey, who wants to do a ooxml reader for openmoko? it's a *real* standard now isn't it? *cough* Apr 02 09:16:49 * mjr smacks josch Apr 02 09:17:05 * josch smacks ooxml and m$ Apr 02 09:17:36 it may be an iso standard (pending possible appeal), but it seems the iso stamp is nowadays applied to whatever toilet paper Apr 02 09:18:18 the most funny thing is Apr 02 09:18:31 that due to all the comments m$ has to redo its implementation of ooxml Apr 02 09:18:48 so that it confirms to this *standard* Apr 02 09:23:17 mjr: It's scary how easily ISO could be bought. Apr 02 09:23:41 Dump a rather small pile of money on it and get a majority on anything you want. Apr 02 09:24:57 I also wonder if the Finnish government (ministries, in particular) is corrupt or just blatantly ignorant. Apr 02 10:39:28 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r128 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Apr 02 10:39:28 freesmartphone.org: Changed timeout handling Apr 02 10:39:28 freesmartphone.org: Implemented rest of sim interface's methods Apr 02 10:39:28 freesmartphone.org: Added tests to sim interface Apr 02 10:49:52 !lastspoke xora Apr 02 10:52:31 ~seen xora Apr 02 10:52:34 xora was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 5d 4h 5m 25s ago, saying: 'jitu3485: you should probably paste the full failure log, but I dont think Ill have time to help, I leave for airport in a few minutes'. Apr 02 10:52:59 * ScaredyCat wonders if the plane is still in the air! Apr 02 10:55:00 !seen xora|gone Apr 02 10:55:03 XorA|gone (n=XorA@www.xora.org.uk) was last seen parting #angstrom 2 days, 20 hours, 38 minutes ago stating "{{"Leaving"}}". Apr 02 10:55:07 ;3 Apr 02 11:00:00 * * OM Bug 1316 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Apr 02 11:00:02 * * openmoko-today becomes blank screen Apr 02 11:00:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1316 Apr 02 11:18:01 * * OM Bug 1317 has been created by scaredycat(AT)automated.it Apr 02 11:18:02 * * Tasks never show up as overdue. Apr 02 11:18:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1317 Apr 02 11:43:00 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r129 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (21 files in 3 dirs): gsmd2: Lots of refactoring and more to come... Apr 02 12:01:02 btw. what exactly is gsmd2 or how is it different? Apr 02 12:02:04 not long ago the gsmd situation looked like a big show stopper. It seems to work now, but i don't know how good... :) Apr 02 12:05:03 DPThought: and we have 3. Apr 02 12:08:31 holy... That's opensource. Freedom of choice. :) Apr 02 12:09:42 anybody knows a channel where I could ask questions about mobiles and SMS etc? Apr 02 12:09:49 for a LG phone Apr 02 12:09:52 You can ask here. Apr 02 12:10:03 We may poke fun at you if your questions are too silly. Apr 02 12:10:15 I'm trying to get to manage the phone via my computer Apr 02 12:10:19 But it seems quiet right now. Apr 02 12:10:19 SMS especially Apr 02 12:10:29 I had a look at bitpim but it doesn't seem to detect the phone Apr 02 12:10:30 linux/win? Apr 02 12:10:32 or to run it Apr 02 12:10:35 I'm on linux Apr 02 12:10:49 USB? Apr 02 12:10:58 bentob0x: start with a simple terminal programm and use AT commands on a device to check Apr 02 12:11:12 DPThought: gsmd2 started as our companys internal gsm daemon Apr 02 12:11:22 yep, usb Apr 02 12:11:39 bentob0x: watch syslog when plugin in to know the device name Apr 02 12:11:44 bentob0x: does it lsusb as a serial conveter or whatever? Apr 02 12:11:45 DPThought: Now it is being trasfered to use freesmartphone.org API Apr 02 12:11:49 bentob0x: which model/vendor is it? Apr 02 12:12:04 hepaajan: are you one of the developers? Apr 02 12:12:11 emdete: yes Apr 02 12:12:33 it's an LG Chocolate (KG800) Apr 02 12:13:27 hepaajan: time for a short discussion? do you know me / my role? Apr 02 12:13:34 And which gsmd works best? *duck and runn* Apr 02 12:14:26 DPThought: we will see. Apr 02 12:14:46 got it to show up by plugging it Apr 02 12:14:54 emdete: sure. I don't know very well Apr 02 12:14:57 lsusb and /var/log/syslog are showing it Apr 02 12:15:36 hepaajan: i am the developer of pygsmd and discussed the API with mickey alot. Apr 02 12:15:50 bentob0x: so you have a tty device? Every thing else should be stright forward. All handsets use standard AT commands Apr 02 12:16:08 emdete: ok, nice to meet you :) Apr 02 12:16:24 hepaajan: there is one point where we i do not agree with mickey. Apr 02 12:16:36 hepaajan: yes, same for me to meet you ;) Apr 02 12:17:00 emdete: what is that? Apr 02 12:17:43 hepaajan: if you looked into pygsmd it does two things differently than the spec right now: it does use on (merged) interface instead of 3 or more (i will change that because mickey means it makes sense). Apr 02 12:17:56 what commands should I use to retrieve the SMS in the phone? Apr 02 12:18:00 in a text file for instance? Apr 02 12:19:14 emdete: where can I find pygsmd? Apr 02 12:19:17 hepaajan: the other thing is that it does not use concrete method signatures but maps instead. this hast (in my view) lots of benefits: you may add fields at will without breaking existing apps, parameters have speaking names (instead of sense by order), you may have different types for one parameter Apr 02 12:19:23 hepaajan: at linuxtogo Apr 02 12:19:36 if anybody has a howto, that would be great :) Apr 02 12:20:23 hepaajan: the last one if difficult to explain. i use the boolean type value false for fields that are not set as a NULL-type wich is not supported by d-bus. Apr 02 12:21:55 hepaajan: it is for shure more complicate for a c developer to create a map type (dbus type a{sv}) but there a lot of advantages with that model Apr 02 12:22:01 hepaajan: what do you think? Apr 02 12:22:28 will the gsm 07.10 muxing stuff be always one layer under gsmd or might it be integrated into it at some time? I think it is time we get gprs to work properly... Apr 02 12:22:48 i was a bit suporsed to see it coming out standallone Apr 02 12:22:51 DPThought: why would one want to integrate both? Apr 02 12:23:05 bentob0x: http://www.3gpp.org/ ;) Apr 02 12:23:18 'morning :) Apr 02 12:23:21 emdete: I'll have to look into it a bit more, I'm not quite sure what you mean yet Apr 02 12:23:27 DPThought: the muxer will wander into the kernel Apr 02 12:23:29 here is the /var/log/syslog for when I plugged my phone: http://pastebin.ca/967415 Apr 02 12:25:26 emdete: I brefer using concrete method signatures, but I'm biased since dbus glib bindings don't support a{sv} atm ;) Apr 02 12:25:32 prefer Apr 02 12:25:38 emdete: my view of gsmd was always some kind of multiplexer. I thought if i need to talk to the modem i would need to ask gsmd for a handle. (Need no serial device. ppp can exec programms like it does with pppoe) Apr 02 12:25:43 emdete: oh, you mean that each method has only one paramter which is a map (str -> somevalue)? Apr 02 12:26:09 bentob0x: looks like you have no driver. You need some usb to serial driver that works Apr 02 12:27:29 bentob0x: what you got there is oly usb mass storage stuff Apr 02 12:28:15 hmm Apr 02 12:28:24 and how can I install the drivers for the phone? Apr 02 12:28:25 hepaajan: exact Apr 02 12:28:29 (I'll check google, 2 sec) Apr 02 12:28:42 DPThought: glib doesn't support that? how sad... Apr 02 12:28:59 oh, that was for spyre Apr 02 12:29:21 DPThought: what would it help if pppd execs a process? Apr 02 12:29:55 emdete: it could open some socket to gsmd which multipelxes it into i's serial connection Apr 02 12:30:16 DPThought: back to libgsmd... some socket? hm. Apr 02 12:30:45 DPThought: no i would rather see a clean separation betwenn gsm0710 and others Apr 02 12:30:49 emdete: was just my idea how gprs would look with gsmd. Not a very educated guess only intuition. :) Apr 02 12:31:26 emdete: I must say that I prefer using concrete signatures Apr 02 12:31:28 DPThought: just check my muxer, play around a while with it. Apr 02 12:31:43 hepaajan: sad to hear. so you are bound... :( Apr 02 12:31:43 i will. had no chance yet Apr 02 12:32:28 DPThought: and it integrates fine: it uses plain old unix devices (u can use them with any terminal program like before) and dbus Apr 02 12:32:35 i like maps :) Apr 02 12:32:43 emdete: I got to go now. talk to you later :) Apr 02 12:32:51 hepaajan: i hope ;) Apr 02 12:32:53 my perl and soap bias... Apr 02 12:34:38 soap? dont like soap. Apr 02 12:35:14 ok, can't find anything about drivers for the KG800, anybody has an advice I could follow? Apr 02 12:35:27 bentob0x: to a lsusb Apr 02 12:35:31 s/to/do/ Apr 02 12:35:32 emdete meant: bendob0x: to a lsusb Apr 02 12:36:05 lol Apr 02 12:36:15 Bus 001 Device 019: ID 1004:6018 LG Electronics, Inc. Apr 02 12:36:21 that's the device there Apr 02 12:36:32 emdete: i hate soap. But i like the way you can make interfaces Apr 02 12:36:56 but as per what DPThought said after reading my pastebin, it seems that the drivers in use are only the ones that will recognise the phone as a mass storage thingy Apr 02 12:37:08 doesn't seem to be the way to go for SMS just yet Apr 02 12:38:09 bentob0x: try `modprobe usbserial vendor=0x1004 product=0x6018` Apr 02 12:39:01 DPThought: i develop a prototype so i dont want to change the interface every time i invent a new field... Apr 02 12:40:13 emdete: i like that. Apr 02 12:40:51 DPThought: what? to change the interface? Apr 02 12:42:19 got this emdete: FATAL: Error inserting usbserial (/lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/kernel/drivers/usb/serial/usbserial.ko): Operation not permitted Apr 02 12:42:29 should I run it as root? Apr 02 12:42:34 yes Apr 02 12:42:34 shure Apr 02 12:42:39 k done Apr 02 12:42:40 :D Apr 02 12:42:45 :) Apr 02 12:42:54 bentob0x: what does syslog say? Apr 02 12:43:21 Apr 2 14:42:33 Palmtree kernel: [ 4505.690511] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial Apr 02 12:43:21 Apr 2 14:42:33 Palmtree kernel: [ 4505.690742] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for generic Apr 02 12:43:21 Apr 2 14:42:33 Palmtree kernel: [ 4505.691140] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic Apr 02 12:43:21 Apr 2 14:42:33 Palmtree kernel: [ 4505.691149] /build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial Driver core Apr 02 12:43:34 I hope I'm not going to get kicked for spampasting Apr 02 12:43:35 ^^ Apr 02 12:44:08 if all went well you will have a new tty in /dev/ Apr 02 12:44:46 bentob0x: that's not enough. it did not grap your device... Apr 02 12:45:01 bentob0x: can you unplug and plug the device again? Apr 02 12:46:11 lsusb -v will also tell you about teh device Apr 02 12:46:44 SpeedEvil: does it tell you the module & device somehow? Apr 02 12:47:09 no - it tells you if there are one or more interfaces on the phone Apr 02 12:47:38 good point. Apr 02 12:47:50 ScaredyCat: ding ding Apr 02 12:47:51 shure but i wanted to know if the module grabbed it and whats the devicename is Apr 02 12:48:17 * SpeedEvil wonders where his suitable exmample device is. Apr 02 12:48:36 Sure - what this tells you is if the device says 'I'm mass-storage only' Apr 02 12:48:49 true. Verry unlikey that the phone has no interface descriptor for some serial interface Apr 02 12:48:50 Or 'I'm mass storage, and this other unspecified interface' Apr 02 12:49:20 xcasex: dong dong Apr 02 12:50:42 openmoko: 03werner * r4297 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: Apr 02 12:50:42 openmoko: This reduces the time until the splash screen comes up by one second, so Apr 02 12:50:42 openmoko: it's now about 3.5s. Apr 02 12:50:42 openmoko: uboot-gta02.patch: Apr 02 12:50:42 openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (POWER_KEY_SECONDS): reduced from 2 to 1 second Apr 02 12:50:44 for example Apr 02 12:50:46 ScaredyCat: see pm Apr 02 12:50:49 ok here is the new pastebin after unplug/plugging the device again: http://pastebin.ca/967439 Apr 02 12:50:50 http://www.mauve.plus.com/lsusb Apr 02 12:51:02 this shows the lsusb -v output from a soundcard with some buttons Apr 02 12:52:05 Look at bInterfaceNumber Apr 02 12:52:15 It has buttons, mic, speaker, all declared as seperate interfaces Apr 02 12:53:07 bentob0x: `grep -v uart:unknown /proc/tty/driver/serial` will show you all serial devices you have drivers for. Apr 02 12:53:32 bentob0x: what is on that storage? can you do a `eject` on it? Apr 02 12:53:43 serinfo:1.0 driver revision: Apr 02 12:53:43 0: uart:16550A port:000003F8 irq:4 tx:0 rx:0 Apr 02 12:53:43 1: uart:16550A port:000002F8 irq:3 tx:0 rx:0 Apr 02 12:53:45 SpeedEvil: do you think usbseral needs some pointers to the config descriptor? Apr 02 12:53:53 I have no idea. Apr 02 12:54:20 I was simply saying that you can inspect lsusb -v to see if it's technically possible to attach other than a mass-storage device to it. Apr 02 12:54:33 Or if the phone needs - for example - switched into some other mode. Apr 02 12:54:39 bentob0x: i know, don't paste it. Was just a hint how you could measure success. (when you have three in the list. These are legacy decices) Apr 02 12:54:40 yes the device is recognised and works as an external HD with the various images, videos etc on it Apr 02 12:54:40 bentob0x: can you eject that device? Apr 02 12:54:56 yep emdete Apr 02 12:55:11 does lsusb say something else afterwords? Apr 02 12:55:21 (i have a device that does so) Apr 02 12:55:22 bentob0x: pastebin your lsusb -v output please Apr 02 12:57:51 here it is: http://pastebin.ca/967446 Apr 02 12:58:19 ok, usbserial really needs only idVendor and idProduct as params. So it is maybe just the wrong driver. AFIAK there are some usb serial drivers... Apr 02 12:59:37 aehm, you have ejected it. I't not in the list Apr 02 13:00:07 Bus 001 Device 027: ID 1004:6018 LG Electronics, Inc. Apr 02 13:00:21 oh, sorry Apr 02 13:00:24 ;) Apr 02 13:00:28 np Apr 02 13:01:00 bentob0x: does eject do anything with it? best test the commandline eject tool Apr 02 13:01:15 that's funny. Only one Interface Descriptor and that is mass storage. And only one Configuration Descriptor Apr 02 13:01:43 bentob0x: are you sure this phone supports tethering? Apr 02 13:02:43 bentob0x: if you have bluetooth on your computer use this. will be less pain. (probably...) Apr 02 13:03:17 hmm Apr 02 13:03:25 no bluetooth key tho Apr 02 13:03:56 going to try on the lappy Apr 02 13:04:02 as far as i know usb (and i read two books about it) there is no way this phone does something else than mass storage Apr 02 13:04:35 ah Apr 02 13:04:41 very unusual Apr 02 13:04:42 k I'll try bluetooth Apr 02 13:11:36 bentob0x: seems like verizon thinks tethering is illegal or something. Maybe it was castrated by yur provider. I heard rumors about phones without tethering but i'm reading it just now. They exist. Crazy. Apr 02 13:12:15 DPThought: it may simply require the phone software altered. Apr 02 13:12:32 tricky :) Apr 02 13:12:43 I mean - press a button or click a menu item. Apr 02 13:13:26 the concept of such a castrated phone makes me wheap Apr 02 13:13:43 no wounder why people like linux phones Apr 02 13:14:54 Linux phones and uncrippled phones are not the same set. Apr 02 13:15:44 most phones i have seen are crippled by ignorance of the vendor anyways Apr 02 13:18:48 phones are so bad that users feel liberated by something non free like the iphone Apr 02 13:18:52 ok, here is the 'sudo lsusb -v' output for the bluetooth thing on my laptop: http://pastebin.ca/967467 Apr 02 13:19:15 I can't wait for the first linux phones to be releases btw Apr 02 13:19:32 I'm hanging in here with my old SonyEricsson T610 Apr 02 13:19:50 waiting for a leet handset Apr 02 13:20:49 with mini-usb for a lovely mini-keyboard Apr 02 13:21:01 so I can vim in the pub ^^ Apr 02 13:21:03 bentob0x: make your bluez fly and check sdptool search DUN Apr 02 13:21:18 sdptool? Apr 02 13:21:43 command? Apr 02 13:22:07 bentob0x: just make it like described here but leave the gprs part out and run your sms proggy on the device http://www.teaparty.net/technotes/blue-gprs.html Apr 02 13:22:07 it says 'inquiring ...' Apr 02 13:23:19 i guess most distros have wizzards for this or make it automaticly... Never really used bt on linux Apr 02 13:24:05 bentob0x: try citool scan first. Maybe the ednpoint is not called DUN. Apr 02 13:24:30 it seem to have detected something Apr 02 13:26:20 bentob0x: rfcomm will make you the tty. Apr 02 13:26:25 Need to work something now Apr 02 13:26:25 here is the output: http://pastebin.ca/967470 Apr 02 13:27:28 great. you have a dun port that makes rfcomm. bind it and you are done Apr 02 13:27:44 to get the SMS from the phone to the comp? Apr 02 13:28:13 bentob0x: use the at commands or check out a progrm that does this. freshmeat might have something Apr 02 13:28:29 what you mean by bind it? Apr 02 13:29:08 http://www.developershome.com/sms/readSmsByAtCommands.asp Apr 02 13:29:22 bentob0x: read the doc i posted Apr 02 13:29:47 ok will do, thx for your help DPThought, very appreciated Apr 02 13:30:47 yep, freshmeat has dozends Apr 02 13:47:00 ok, once the bind is done, how can I retrieve the SMS from my phone? Apr 02 13:47:05 I mean, what command should I type? Apr 02 13:47:16 to put them in a txt file for instance? Apr 02 13:49:36 as i sayd. freshmeat hat dozends of tools. And i posted you the needed at commands. Pleas show some initiative Apr 02 13:50:04 sorry, didn't mean to be annoying :( Apr 02 13:50:14 reading a bit more ... Apr 02 13:52:54 does anyone know anything about running OpenMoko on a zaurus Apr 02 13:52:56 ? Apr 02 13:56:18 not tried openmoko but tried poky on my zaurus Apr 02 13:56:57 zedstar: is poky more usable than Angstrom? Apr 02 13:57:38 simmatusmentis: well.....it seemed fine....very nice look and feel i thought Apr 02 13:57:44 the reason I ask about OM is because it would then allow me to test OM on a real device, instead of needing to use qemu(way slow) Apr 02 13:58:39 yeh should be fine for prototyping stuff on Apr 02 14:00:05 i didnt manage to get my wireless card working when i tried a while back tho Apr 02 14:00:16 but didnt try too hard Apr 02 14:00:22 how come? should just be kernel stuff Apr 02 14:01:14 well needs some edits of some files for wpa etc i didnt do it Apr 02 14:01:19 but it should worl Apr 02 14:01:20 k Apr 02 14:01:40 it recognised the wifi card tho Apr 02 14:02:00 oh, I see Apr 02 14:02:29 i think i didnt have usbnet configured so had to edit via the device which i soon got fed up with Apr 02 14:02:37 is there a way to use a single OE env to build for two different machienes? Apr 02 14:03:18 well u have to edit local.conf etc not too sure...i built for a nokia n810 using my OM build stuff by just editing that Apr 02 14:03:38 there is support for poky i think also Apr 02 14:03:45 interesting, thanks Apr 02 14:03:52 the OE guys would know bout that Apr 02 14:04:03 yeah, I'll look into it more Apr 02 14:33:24 good morning from Vancouver Apr 02 14:33:26 guys i was just thinking a bit about the moko and it struck me that its part of a new generation of devices that will slowly start to absorb functionality of a desktop Apr 02 14:33:29 however that raises one question Apr 02 14:33:35 will we be able to encrypt the filesystem on the moko easily ... once a device is portable it will surely contain sensitive information. Apr 02 14:33:42 ? even Apr 02 14:35:02 uh Apr 02 14:35:12 firstly, it's not called "the moko" Apr 02 14:35:42 the moko sees you! Apr 02 14:35:45 secondaly, i'm pretty sure you can encrypt any file you want with the correct tools Apr 02 14:36:06 sure we can nitpick the details but we both know the general public will call it a moko Apr 02 14:36:08 * raster bows before the moko and offers his first born Apr 02 14:36:09 :) Apr 02 14:36:15 you don't need a file system to do that for you, unless you want to see performance go down the drain Apr 02 14:36:27 then will not call it a moko Apr 02 14:36:35 secondarily, moko is a much better brand than free runner, your customers will simply name the device for you Apr 02 14:36:36 it's called the neo if anything like that Apr 02 14:36:44 it even says neo on the case Apr 02 14:36:48 yeah well Apr 02 14:36:49 you know Apr 02 14:36:55 debian, redhat, suse Apr 02 14:36:58 to the client its all linux Apr 02 14:37:06 despite the fact linux is just a kernel and a tiny file Apr 02 14:37:11 I hardly see how that's the same issue Apr 02 14:37:12 branding has nothing to do with logic Apr 02 14:37:19 well you brought it up Apr 02 14:37:31 lt the market decide Apr 02 14:37:33 i'm addressing it as it seems important to you Apr 02 14:37:34 the device is called "Neo FreeRunner", so logic dictates it could be shortened (incorrectly) to Neo Apr 02 14:37:39 and we'll just eventually fall in line with the market Apr 02 14:37:40 :) Apr 02 14:37:42 I fail to see how you get "moko" from "neo" Apr 02 14:37:46 (most likely) Apr 02 14:38:02 i got moko because i'm a customer Apr 02 14:38:04 i like moko Apr 02 14:38:07 i like saying moko Apr 02 14:38:11 i like the sound of moko Apr 02 14:38:16 i like thinking of a moko device Apr 02 14:38:19 thos: i guss we just call it freerunner or gta02 ourselves :) Apr 02 14:38:21 it defines a whole brand Apr 02 14:38:22 i tend to lean to gta02 Apr 02 14:38:23 :) Apr 02 14:38:29 it defines a whole range of FREE devices Apr 02 14:38:33 you can verb moko Apr 02 14:38:35 for example: Apr 02 14:38:36 i can just imagine one day i'll b calling it the "moko 17" Apr 02 14:38:37 :) Apr 02 14:38:40 have you been mokoed today? Apr 02 14:38:41 raster, yes, personall I use gta02 and gta01 to identify them :-) Apr 02 14:38:47 so Apr 02 14:38:51 holycow, where on earth does moko come from? Apr 02 14:38:55 but hey - i'm not the marketing dept Apr 02 14:39:03 i just like coming up with catchy names for software Apr 02 14:39:04 thos: lol your an engineer aren't you? Apr 02 14:39:04 :) Apr 02 14:39:05 :) Apr 02 14:39:13 please don't see that as a put down Apr 02 14:39:25 holycow, seriously, no one goes around saying "yes, I have Hat enterprise linux" Apr 02 14:39:29 i've work for years in advertising, trust me when i say that you have gold in the work 'moko' Apr 02 14:39:33 they say RedHat or RHEL Apr 02 14:40:00 holycow, even when it was called "Neo1973" people called it "Neo" Apr 02 14:40:02 actually they don't even say that Apr 02 14:40:06 they say i run linux Apr 02 14:40:11 holycow: i might agree - moko is short for "openmoko" Apr 02 14:40:18 ie the company that produces the product Apr 02 14:40:26 i don't care what you want me to call it Apr 02 14:40:29 i'm calling it a moko Apr 02 14:40:30 as openmoko doesnt have any other actual products of its own other than a phone Apr 02 14:40:31 :) Apr 02 14:40:40 it makes sense that moko may come to be a prevelant term Apr 02 14:40:46 you can name it anything you want, it will always be a moko to me Apr 02 14:40:51 as open is just "redundant" info Apr 02 14:40:51 haha Apr 02 14:41:12 holycow, ok, and when openmoko expands with more devices, you can call all of them "moko" too Apr 02 14:41:17 i would be perfectly happy calling the freerunner the "moko 2" Apr 02 14:41:18 :) Apr 02 14:41:21 if you don't see the power of the word moko ... i think you are missing a great opportunity here :) Apr 02 14:41:22 but hey Apr 02 14:41:24 that's just me Apr 02 14:41:25 :) Apr 02 14:41:32 thos: yes, I have a "nokia" ... Apr 02 14:41:40 not a 6600 or a n95 Apr 02 14:41:43 holycow: just think.moko mans "booger" in spanish. Apr 02 14:41:45 just a "nokia" Apr 02 14:41:48 moko is such a nice friendly round word Apr 02 14:41:51 it can be verbed Apr 02 14:41:51 how can u go wrong! Apr 02 14:41:57 Zmx, right, but then they will ask you to specify Apr 02 14:42:03 raster: haha! really? Apr 02 14:42:07 funny Apr 02 14:42:33 of course i'm only thinkingin english terms, perhaps freerunner avoids the whole 'booger issue' Apr 02 14:42:34 hehe Apr 02 14:43:03 anyway so right right, its a linux device, we can use regular tools to encrypt the home directory for each user then Apr 02 14:43:13 holycow: yes Apr 02 14:43:17 holycow: atm there is only user root Apr 02 14:43:19 holycow, perhaps if you said "moko freerunner" I wouldn't mind, but the fact is "moko" produce more than just one device, and more than just hardware Apr 02 14:43:34 holycow, so it's hardly easy for anyone to know what you mean by just "moko" Apr 02 14:43:37 holycow: then again a booger, if you have a nasty cold, could be a freerunner too without a hankie Apr 02 14:43:38 :) Apr 02 14:43:46 thos: aha then we are speaking the same thing :) Apr 02 14:44:04 right i haven't seen other moko devices except the mapping one thta isnt' available in canada yet *nod* right Apr 02 14:44:05 holycow, when I say "OpenMoko" I normally mean the software side of things Apr 02 14:44:18 true Apr 02 14:44:25 thos: we do? i wouldn't count dash, and gta01 is really just a prototype... :) Apr 02 14:44:37 raster, oh but there will be, right ;-) Apr 02 14:44:40 one of the weird things with branding is that you can accidentally brand a device Apr 02 14:44:45 thos: i damn well hope so! Apr 02 14:44:50 raster, maybe I have an illusion due to having SO MANY protos ;-) Apr 02 14:44:59 thos: tho i'd be happy calling them the "moko 2" "moko 3" etc... Apr 02 14:45:00 :) Apr 02 14:45:03 those of us looking to buy one have paid so much attention to it that it has become a moko alrady in a sense Apr 02 14:45:27 raster, pfft, version numbers suck Apr 02 14:45:36 i think moko covering all sorts of devices is fine Apr 02 14:45:38 it slike apple Apr 02 14:45:48 raster, gnome already learnt that, they've got stuck on 2.x now Apr 02 14:45:49 you say you got a mac, it pretty well covers their entire line of products Apr 02 14:46:08 i would rename freerunner to freedom my self Apr 02 14:46:23 moko freedom Apr 02 14:46:26 holycow, just be thankful it's not still "Neo1973" ;-) Apr 02 14:46:30 hehe Apr 02 14:46:31 :) Apr 02 14:47:30 zis is true! Apr 02 14:50:32 how can Moko be verbed and not Neo? Apr 02 14:50:41 try it Apr 02 14:50:47 YOU'VE BEEN NEOD! Apr 02 14:50:54 sounds just as good to me Apr 02 14:50:57 zing! Apr 02 14:51:06 whats a neod? Apr 02 14:51:27 it's a systeam deamon for the neo Apr 02 14:51:28 :) Apr 02 14:51:35 zing! Apr 02 14:51:39 beat me to it tholin Apr 02 14:51:42 thos** Apr 02 14:51:55 for example i can go Apr 02 14:52:00 hallo my moko monkeys! Apr 02 14:52:04 Don't worry, I was just neoing you Apr 02 14:52:05 got a moko? Apr 02 14:52:08 can i have a moko? Apr 02 14:52:13 how is your moko today? Apr 02 14:52:20 that's not a verb! Apr 02 14:52:27 and why not replace Neo in that is the same! Apr 02 14:52:30 true but you really can run with it Apr 02 14:52:53 but interestingly, moko is a verb anyway Apr 02 14:53:13 in english? Apr 02 14:53:14 * raster moko's on thos Apr 02 14:53:19 see? Apr 02 14:53:23 :) Apr 02 14:53:33 raster likes it - you have to like it Apr 02 14:53:44 zedstar, well know Apr 02 14:53:52 i learned that while using e ^^ Apr 02 14:54:08 que putaria! Apr 02 14:54:14 hehe Apr 02 14:54:31 josch: hahahahahahah Apr 02 14:54:40 i like neo1973 as a name. And i like OpenMoKo with the capital K :) Apr 02 14:55:05 i like oPenmoko with the capital P Apr 02 14:55:11 raster: are you mentoring? Apr 02 14:55:17 zedstar, iirc, moko means talk in some eastern language Apr 02 14:55:44 also means booger in spanish(moco) Apr 02 14:55:53 don't overanalyze it tho Apr 02 14:56:08 the marketplace takes all things and simplifies them to the lowest simplest idea Apr 02 14:56:15 summatusmentis: por openmoko? Apr 02 14:56:18 [Mo]bile [Ko]mmunikation Apr 02 14:56:24 neo1973 is just too many numbers (ie more than one) Apr 02 14:56:34 it's nerdy Apr 02 14:56:35 openmoko is a good name but no one cares for open Apr 02 14:56:39 and its a nerdy phone Apr 02 14:56:40 holycow, like the Nokia 6300? ;-) Apr 02 14:56:51 even when talking to fellow nerds i will say 'hey check out my moko' Apr 02 14:56:57 which sounds tacky Apr 02 14:56:59 lol Apr 02 14:57:08 thos hehe :) Apr 02 14:57:15 you should say neo, obviously Apr 02 14:57:20 "check out my neo" Apr 02 14:57:21 blackberry is a pretty good example Apr 02 14:57:32 neo just isn't a nice round word Apr 02 14:57:45 in english the 'eee' has a squeezed feeling Apr 02 14:57:48 neeeeeeeooooh Apr 02 14:57:59 raster: lol, you quiero alguien, quien es un mentor, para leer mi papel sobre mi proyecto Apr 02 14:58:05 moko doesn't have that weird eee sound in it Apr 02 14:58:19 although i cant do anything about it meaning 'booger' in spanish Apr 02 14:58:27 super duper commit comming Apr 02 14:58:28 crackberry Apr 02 14:58:30 brace yourself Apr 02 14:58:41 moko sounds japanese to me neo sounds american to me Apr 02 14:58:46 I mean i also don't say WLAN or wifi but rather IEEE 802.11 and IEEE 1394 and so on. (Ok, not really. But sometimes) Apr 02 14:58:54 moko sounds japanese to me too Apr 02 14:59:07 openmoko: 03thomas * r4298 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c): Apr 02 14:59:07 openmoko: 2008-04-02 Thomas Wood Apr 02 14:59:07 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: Connect "Save Contact" button to moko-save-number. Apr 02 14:59:10 wooo! Apr 02 14:59:12 isn't IEEE 1394 firewire? Apr 02 14:59:23 summatusmentis, yes Apr 02 14:59:26 blackberry sounds lame like web2.0 name shit Apr 02 14:59:56 summatusmentis: aah espanõl Apr 02 15:00:08 raster: haha, sorry Apr 02 15:00:43 raster: no, i was just wondering if you could provide some insight as to what type of applications(if you're a mentor) you thought might get accepted Apr 02 15:00:54 i like bad acronymes. At best recursive Apr 02 15:01:09 I'm obsessing about this, and it's not healthy :) Apr 02 15:01:20 summatusmentis: eu não sais :) (eu falo de portugues) as persoas não falou comigo :) Apr 02 15:02:00 (oh - i understood. i was just in portuguese mode) Apr 02 15:02:16 no one has asked me about mentor stuff etc. - so don't look at me Apr 02 15:02:16 :) Apr 02 15:02:22 portugese? who speaks portugese? Apr 02 15:02:25 ok, I tried wammu and kmobiletools and none of them detect the phone Apr 02 15:02:31 I need a cigarette ... Apr 02 15:02:34 oh, ok, I thought someone earlier had said you were a mentor, maybe not Apr 02 15:02:49 while(earlier == 3+ days ago) Apr 02 15:02:58 summatusmentis: i don't, but i'm in brazil right now, so it's kind of a necessity. got enough of it under my wing in the last 3 weeks to make basic conversation and get around etc. Apr 02 15:03:10 oh, that's cool Apr 02 15:03:10 if i'm a mentor.. it's news to me Apr 02 15:03:13 lol Apr 02 15:04:05 man portuguese is sooooo easy to learn Apr 02 15:04:19 i don't think i've picked up a languge this quickly before Apr 02 15:04:28 what other languages do you know? Apr 02 15:04:33 give me 1 year in brzil and i'd probably be fluent Apr 02 15:05:09 * summatusmentis wants a job where he gets to travel all over the place Apr 02 15:05:12 bentob0x: I think you only need to direct them to the tty device you made with rfcomm Apr 02 15:05:18 hmm english, grman, japanese, french, a little spanish, studied latin, and i know a small smattering of chinese Apr 02 15:05:30 air hostess? Apr 02 15:05:40 zedstar: no, computer related job :) Apr 02 15:05:50 zedstar: would need a boob job for that. :) Apr 02 15:06:05 yeh i thought he might look good in a dress ;) Apr 02 15:06:13 raster: kudos, I speak english, spanish, small amounts of french, latin, and maybe some basic german Apr 02 15:06:39 chines is totally nerdy. If there would not be these letters. And the tonation is dificult too. But grammar is great. Apr 02 15:07:04 summatusmentis, wohoo! try your germen! Apr 02 15:07:19 josch: I literally took one semester of german Apr 02 15:07:19 zedstar: ewwwww Apr 02 15:07:31 summatusmentis: nicely done :) Apr 02 15:07:44 DPThought: the tones are a bitch Apr 02 15:07:54 DPThought: but portuguse is just so... guessable Apr 02 15:08:05 i can read maybe 30-50% of everything i see Apr 02 15:08:12 ben here 3 weeks Apr 02 15:08:23 raster: heard so too Apr 02 15:08:41 listening is hard as they speak fast andmumble Apr 02 15:08:58 josch: ich spreche nicht deutsch Apr 02 15:09:07 ich spreche kein deutsch Apr 02 15:09:12 see? Apr 02 15:09:14 (better) Apr 02 15:09:21 german has no practical value. I'm always amazed that people actually learn it. :) Apr 02 15:09:52 summatusmentis, raster *clap* *clap* wohoo! Apr 02 15:10:16 DPThought: its perfectly practical - if u ever have to do business with germans - i.e. u want to sell something TO them. u'd be well off leaning german Apr 02 15:10:17 :) Apr 02 15:10:17 it's too hard and i don't think reading classical lyrics is rewarding enough :) Apr 02 15:10:18 raster: see, that doesn't make sense to my english mind. In english it's "I don't" and seemingly in german its "I speak none" Apr 02 15:10:29 and german is not hard Apr 02 15:10:34 its one of the easier languages Apr 02 15:10:39 learn the rules (not many) Apr 02 15:10:41 and follow them Apr 02 15:10:58 its probably one of the most regular languagese around in europe Apr 02 15:11:00 raster: almost every german speaks english. And those who tell yiu they don't liy Apr 02 15:11:01 raster: Are you including strong nouns in that description? Apr 02 15:11:03 lol not many rules? :P Apr 02 15:11:03 very few excaptions Apr 02 15:11:10 *few* exceptions?? Apr 02 15:11:21 josch: compared to english Apr 02 15:11:22 :) Apr 02 15:11:37 Declining is something we almost don't do at all in English, so it doesn't stick very well for us w/o practice Apr 02 15:11:40 wurp2: i include everything :) Apr 02 15:11:40 maybe i need too little english for this comparison ^^ Apr 02 15:12:03 okay off now - bye! Apr 02 15:13:17 wurp2: maybe i just am twisted as i learnt latin and french too so declination is all fine by me Apr 02 15:13:18 :) Apr 02 15:13:52 I took some latin before I took my German, so I was exposed to it too Apr 02 15:13:53 na dann ;) Apr 02 15:14:40 but it's still a PITA Apr 02 15:14:53 in latin at least it allows you to rearrange word order Apr 02 15:14:54 not really Apr 02 15:15:00 but as i said Apr 02 15:15:08 I can't tell that declintion has any benefit in German Apr 02 15:15:09 i see declination in all european languages Apr 02 15:15:16 just grman shows it the most of modern languages Apr 02 15:15:18 Not in Spanish Apr 02 15:15:19 english has it Apr 02 15:15:23 only pronouns Apr 02 15:15:35 all of them have it to one amount or another Apr 02 15:15:37 it may not be visible Apr 02 15:15:39 but its there Apr 02 15:16:12 There is no place afaik where either Spanish or English decline nouns Apr 02 15:16:44 openmoko: 03thomas * r4299 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am src/test-notes.c): Apr 02 15:16:44 openmoko: 2008-04-02 Thomas Wood Apr 02 15:16:44 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Apr 02 15:16:44 openmoko: * src/test-notes.c: Apr 02 15:16:44 openmoko: Add a small test program to add notes to the system Apr 02 15:17:14 I will shut up now as this is not a grammar channel :-) Apr 02 15:17:25 wurp2: they dont visible do it, but a noun will be accusative when tis the object of the sentence Apr 02 15:17:32 it isnt written differently Apr 02 15:17:41 but it still is accusative Apr 02 15:17:43 :) Apr 02 15:18:02 it's a shame u dont learn this stuff in english classes anymore as a native speaker Apr 02 15:18:04 :( Apr 02 15:19:03 hi raster, anything new about e & gta02? Apr 02 15:19:29 emdete: working on illume - added a virtual keyboard Apr 02 15:19:39 need to slicken it up now Apr 02 15:19:44 emdete, it's sloooooow :-) Apr 02 15:19:49 when I choose rfcomm0 in the application, what connection type should I use DPThought? Apr 02 15:20:03 thos: i asked for anything new ;) Apr 02 15:20:27 emdete, aaah Apr 02 15:20:36 there is at19200, fbus, ira.., bluephonet, ... etc Apr 02 15:20:36 raster: anything on driver development? Apr 02 15:21:16 thos: almost as slow as matchbox + today + gtk :) Apr 02 15:21:25 raster, slooower Apr 02 15:23:21 raster: does the virtual keyboard work w/ fingers? Apr 02 15:24:37 (in that it doens't need a stylus) Apr 02 15:28:01 omg Apr 02 15:28:05 I was trying to read the backlog Apr 02 15:28:21 and there's like an eight hour long retarded conversation about 'moko' and branding names in general Apr 02 15:28:32 (and so I thought I'd revive it? meh, shame on me) Apr 02 15:28:45 why was it retaded? Apr 02 15:28:56 I quite enjoyed that discussion Apr 02 15:29:31 maybe it had a different feel in realtime then Apr 02 15:29:34 :) Apr 02 15:29:39 not currently Apr 02 15:29:42 going to fix that next Apr 02 15:30:01 raster, too slow, he already left Apr 02 15:30:26 anyone here with a ppc64 running linux? Apr 02 15:30:37 what chmod should be on /dev/rfcomm0? Apr 02 15:31:49 thos: whats slow with illume? Apr 02 15:32:15 (other than the launcher scrolly thing and thats thanks to me not limiting a background to have to scroll with contents only) Apr 02 15:32:57 YAY HEAPS! Apr 02 15:35:00 I give up, I'll try later Apr 02 15:35:18 raster, the launcher scrolly thing :-P Apr 02 15:36:01 raster, also, it didn't handle virtual keyboards very well last time I tried. They went full screen, covering up the app they were meant to be used for Apr 02 15:39:17 thos: i dont plan on handling virtual kbd's Apr 02 15:39:22 raster: that video of illume was beautiful, kinda slow, but beautiful Apr 02 15:39:23 it doesnt handle them at all in any way Apr 02 15:39:28 a vkbd is just another window Apr 02 15:39:34 it has one built-in now Apr 02 15:40:06 and yes - the scrolly thing.. with xrender accelerated as well as the glamo is able and some engine tweaks it should be fine and i get the best of both worlds Apr 02 15:40:10 ok Apr 02 15:40:11 run Apr 02 15:40:14 amoco! Apr 02 15:46:14 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r130 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (pygsmd.py pypppd.py pypwrd.py): Apr 02 15:46:14 freesmartphone.org: fixed internal names Apr 02 15:46:14 freesmartphone.org: fixed old names in dbus examples Apr 02 15:53:37 What's the most recent u-boot that I should be using on my GTA01. I care about SD booting. Apr 02 15:54:55 raster, so basically, you can't use a custom input method with Illume? Apr 02 15:55:14 like, if you wanted extra accessibility or something Apr 02 15:57:32 or you know, if you just preferred an alternative input method, whatever the latest craze is Apr 02 16:01:57 * ScaredyCat returns from meeting Apr 02 16:02:06 enlightenment doesn't support xim? Apr 02 16:06:06 has anyone in here lately build openmoko-image? Apr 02 16:06:29 yes Apr 02 16:06:41 just a few hours ago Apr 02 16:07:01 for neo or an other device? Apr 02 16:07:16 for om-gta02 Apr 02 16:08:11 thos: r u going to "over the air" Apr 02 16:08:13 hmm Apr 02 16:08:47 the problem is openmoko-icon-theme-standard2-qvga depends on librsvg-native which doesn't exist in oe Apr 02 16:09:14 who set up this dep? Apr 02 16:10:00 Is today's GTA01 u-boot image likely to be good? Apr 02 16:11:11 zedstar, sorry? Apr 02 16:11:27 bambam, I removed the need for openmoko-icon-theme-standard2-qvga already Apr 02 16:11:32 bambam, that package is redundant Apr 02 16:12:16 thos: is 48hrs mobile hacking event at imperial college on friday Apr 02 16:12:47 thos: so you aren't usin any theme? Apr 02 16:13:59 orospakr: Do you have a debug board? Apr 02 16:14:13 wurp2, no, which is why I'm asking first. ;) Apr 02 16:14:36 I can tell you which uboot I last updated with, but I doubt anyone in the room has burned the latest uboot Apr 02 16:15:02 zedstar, oh interesting Apr 02 16:15:13 bambam, openmoko-icon-theme-standard2 now includes the qvga icons Apr 02 16:15:21 "qvga" meaning the 22x22 icons Apr 02 16:15:42 thos: im going armed with sleeping bag me! not sure how good idea it would be to do the whole sleep over thing but depends on how pissed i get :) Apr 02 16:15:44 zedstar, details? Apr 02 16:15:51 thos: overtheair.org Apr 02 16:16:30 thos: ok, then the bb-file "task-openmoko-ui" needs a update, because for all the moto-devices ths THEMES still on qvga Apr 02 16:16:48 bambam, i'm not an OE develeoper :-) Apr 02 16:17:05 thos: thanks anyway Apr 02 16:17:16 wurp2, well, which one do you have, then? :) Apr 02 16:17:25 zedstar, aw, sold out :-( Apr 02 16:18:00 thos: at one point they had listed opendedhand as presenting there but no doesnt Apr 02 16:18:10 thos: u could get in if u put your name down as a speaker i bet Apr 02 16:19:23 ;-) Apr 02 16:19:35 /u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+git0+10bbb38a402a2faf18858c451bcdc63d45888e6e+svn4151-r3.bin Apr 02 16:20:22 wurp2, thanks! Apr 02 16:20:31 about what time was that from? Apr 02 16:20:33 the hash, it burns Apr 02 16:20:38 oh, it burns Apr 02 16:20:39 orospakr: you're welcome Apr 02 16:20:55 orospakr: 2-3 weeks ago, I guess Apr 02 16:21:13 anrp: Yeah, that's what the ;-) was all about Apr 02 16:21:23 zedstar, did you see some guy is talking about openmoko on wednesday next week at UCL? Apr 02 16:21:57 thos: yeh i replied on mailing list i will come along Apr 02 16:22:26 wurp2, awesome. Apr 02 16:22:31 oh cool Apr 02 16:22:34 zedstar, which mailing list? Apr 02 16:22:40 I didn't see any replies Apr 02 16:22:43 thos: community i think Apr 02 16:23:10 oh, I guess you didn't reply-to-all Apr 02 16:23:19 that one gets filtered out from my inbox automatically ;-) Apr 02 16:23:30 thos: ah lol ok yeh just hit reply Apr 02 16:24:13 zedstar, did you see marcus' presentation from fosdem? Apr 02 16:24:34 thos: ive seen the link yeh i will try and watch bit later.......good stuff he did Apr 02 16:24:40 yeah Apr 02 16:24:52 anyway, time to get some food going Apr 02 16:26:35 wurp2, it works! Whew! Apr 02 16:27:43 weird, it proclaims "bad magic number" when I attempt to boot from SD. Apr 02 16:27:51 it's an ext3fs, with an ext3 partition type. Apr 02 16:28:47 orospakr: congratulations :-) Apr 02 16:29:04 (on the uboot working, not on the bad magic number) Apr 02 16:29:12 I guess I gave you the right one after all Apr 02 16:29:15 he needs more magic Apr 02 16:29:22 * anrp waves his hands Apr 02 16:30:03 j/k, btw - I was pretty darn sure that was the right one ;-) Apr 02 16:31:21 yeah! Apr 02 16:31:54 I have a feeling I didn't set up the card properly. I don't see how, though. Partition 0 is ext3, with the rootfs untarred in it. Apr 02 16:32:05 wurp2, have you booted from SD with that image? Apr 02 16:32:27 nope :-( Apr 02 16:32:49 I just install all my 3rd party stuff on the card Apr 02 16:32:50 here a moko, there a moko and another openmoko, moko, moko, moko,moko,open moko, duck. Apr 02 16:32:56 I still have 15% or so free on rootfs Apr 02 16:33:16 ScaredyCat: s/duck/goose/ Apr 02 16:33:40 huh! Apr 02 16:33:43 tis duck Apr 02 16:34:09 I thought you were playing moko, moko, goose Apr 02 16:34:21 llama llama duck Apr 02 16:34:34 partition zero? Apr 02 16:34:41 ... you formatted the whole disk as ext3? Apr 02 16:35:06 wurp2: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama Apr 02 16:35:08 You get 512 bytes extra that way. Apr 02 16:35:18 and lose compatibility :\ Apr 02 16:35:21 I think there were problems for a while booting from SD :-( I didn't pay them any attention because I don't boot that way Apr 02 16:36:00 512 bytes =~ 1/4000000 of a 2 gig sim... Apr 02 16:36:13 * SpeedEvil wasn't being real serious. Apr 02 16:36:23 heh Apr 02 16:36:27 anrp, haha, no, I do have the disk label. Apr 02 16:36:31 parition 1, I guess I should say. Apr 02 16:36:48 well, it might make a difference ;S Apr 02 16:36:56 does the kernel have built-in sd/mmc? Apr 02 16:37:07 it's not even loading the kernel. Apr 02 16:37:14 er? Apr 02 16:37:15 u-boot itself prints that. Apr 02 16:37:19 mmm Apr 02 16:37:49 "bad mbr sector signature 0x000000" Apr 02 16:38:00 something like that. it flashes up the screen pretty briefly. Apr 02 16:38:05 uh oh, it's reading zeros D: Apr 02 16:38:12 seems like. Apr 02 16:38:18 is it x86 partition table format? Apr 02 16:38:25 yeah. "msdos". Apr 02 16:38:34 * anrp detects a parted user Apr 02 16:38:42 the one that came stock. maybe I should use parted to recreate the disk label. Apr 02 16:38:51 maaayyyybe :) Apr 02 16:39:00 did you change the partition type? Apr 02 16:39:18 you mean the field in the partition table? to "ext3". Apr 02 16:39:28 which, if I recall, is 0x83 Apr 02 16:39:46 that should be right.. Apr 02 16:42:05 is there some way to dump a sector from a disk with u-boot? Apr 02 16:42:15 i'd try that next to see if it is really reading zeros Apr 02 16:52:06 hmmm Apr 02 16:53:30 mmm .. so anyone used e17 ? Apr 02 16:57:55 ScaredyCat, I think raster might have. ;) Apr 02 16:58:30 yeah, I know that... but he's not about.. Apr 02 16:58:54 so yeah, I'm also seeing this: mmc_block_read: err SDIDSTA=0x00000024 Apr 02 16:59:13 uh oh D: Apr 02 16:59:30 does that look familiar? :P Apr 02 16:59:46 * orospakr notes this is the SD card that FIC shipped to him along with the GTA01. Apr 02 17:01:37 i've no idea :\ Apr 02 17:03:03 Firstly. Take out the SD card, and put it back in. Apr 02 17:03:09 * SpeedEvil hates that damn connector. Apr 02 17:03:38 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-October/000664.html Apr 02 17:03:43 SpeedEvil, done that several times. Apr 02 17:03:47 it's probably inserted. Apr 02 17:04:04 OTOH - I was quite surprised that the speed of the SD is 3M/s Apr 02 17:04:07 s/probably/properly/ Apr 02 17:04:07 orospakr meant: it's properly inserted. Apr 02 17:04:15 It was much worse when I last tried it. Apr 02 17:04:25 Or maybe I've just got a better card. Apr 02 17:05:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/174205 Apr 02 17:06:01 I should have tried this with my old u-boot image from August. Apr 02 17:08:01 ah well, I'm just going to go with jffs2 for now. Apr 02 17:23:07 ScaredyCat: i think i have used it at some point Apr 02 17:32:04 oooh, so I decided to give suspend a try, and, well, on wake-up the LCD did the crazy "wash-out" thing that LCDs do when the controller screws up. Apr 02 17:32:13 and it didn't wake up on an incoming call, either. :( Apr 02 17:32:32 and yes, I removed the serial console line from bootargs. Apr 02 17:32:40 (and confirmed it with cat /proc/cmdline) Apr 02 17:34:37 orospakr: :-( Apr 02 17:34:43 How did you wake? Apr 02 17:34:46 Aux or power? Apr 02 17:34:56 woke by tapping power. Apr 02 17:35:11 actually, hmmm Apr 02 17:35:24 I'm using today's rootfs with a kernel from two weeks ago. Apr 02 17:35:25 Try aux Apr 02 17:35:26 I should fix that. Apr 02 17:35:41 That's the one that sort-of worked somewhat recently ;-) Apr 02 17:36:08 wow, look at that Apr 02 17:36:14 Although there was a time (2/26 rootfs, iirc) that I was told with the boot parm mod you did, wake on call mostly worked Apr 02 17:36:17 it did the crazy lcd thing for a moment, but then I saw my OM desktop. Apr 02 17:36:31 wurp2, yeah, that's what the wiki said. Apr 02 17:36:35 I assumed it all still worked. :) Apr 02 17:37:06 You're the 1st person afaik to try a more recent build with the boot parm mod Apr 02 17:38:16 neat. Apr 02 17:38:25 well, at least incoming calls still work after resuming. Apr 02 17:38:38 ... although there was no longer any ring sound. Apr 02 17:40:55 You're doing better than most, then Apr 02 17:41:06 Last time I tried it, nothing worked after resume Apr 02 17:41:17 but I haven't changed my boot args Apr 02 17:44:12 oh well, it works for now. next order of business is to make the checkfastcharge script work. :) Apr 02 17:46:45 Is it failing for you? Apr 02 17:47:03 wurp2, well, I wasn't able to install pygtk on the other image. Apr 02 17:47:12 apparently ipkg/opkg is fixed now. Apr 02 17:48:58 cool Apr 02 20:19:36 raster: yeah, I know that.. I was just looking for someone who was around that knew anything about it Apr 02 20:20:01 not me Apr 02 20:20:04 i dont know anything Apr 02 20:20:05 :) Apr 02 20:20:13 * raster goes back to kbd stuff Apr 02 20:20:16 you weren't around either Apr 02 20:20:23 hhehehe Apr 02 20:20:26 how do I actually use illume? Apr 02 20:20:28 i was just busy being stinky Apr 02 20:20:35 did u read the README ? Apr 02 20:20:42 Ive installed e-wm and supporting files. Apr 02 20:20:52 I have illume installed... Apr 02 20:21:06 raster: don't know if you saw earlier, the video of illume you've got is beautiful Apr 02 20:21:10 but I seem to get the standard e wm Apr 02 20:21:17 yes Apr 02 20:21:20 that'd be correct Apr 02 20:21:38 summatusmentis: obrigado Apr 02 20:21:42 I read the readme... with all the faux info... building it isn't the issue, running it is Apr 02 20:21:55 ok, but illume is just a lib, right? Apr 02 20:21:57 ScaredyCat: in illum'es src i provide an "unrtar me from root" config Apr 02 20:22:02 its a module Apr 02 20:22:13 e wont go use a module just because u installed it Apr 02 20:22:16 ugliest hack in the world time :-) Apr 02 20:22:19 u will want to go configure e Apr 02 20:22:25 like to enable illume Apr 02 20:22:28 disable other modules Apr 02 20:22:33 delete some shelves Apr 02 20:22:39 so it should show up as a module? Apr 02 20:22:42 throw out some wardrobes Apr 02 20:22:44 change theme to the illume.edj i put in svn Apr 02 20:22:45 etc. Apr 02 20:22:45 is the config app? Apr 02 20:22:58 hrm Apr 02 20:23:19 thos: it is ugly - but works Apr 02 20:23:30 as such i dont have a default config nicely packaged up for it Apr 02 20:23:33 raster, that doesn't make it right! Apr 02 20:23:37 shouldn;t the illume install do the theme install..... Apr 02 20:23:46 hey - i'm not rushing thigns here Apr 02 20:23:47 ScaredyCat, the point I was trying to make ;-) Apr 02 20:23:50 everyone else is Apr 02 20:24:06 * ScaredyCat just anted a looksie Apr 02 20:24:10 wanted Apr 02 20:24:11 i built basic .bb's to buil the module Apr 02 20:24:15 i ddi no hand-holding in them Apr 02 20:24:20 bleh Apr 02 20:24:25 theres a lot more to do Apr 02 20:24:33 like tmatchbox-keyboard cant run at the same time Apr 02 20:24:38 as u'll get a conflict Apr 02 20:24:49 * ScaredyCat searches ffor that dodgy tarball Apr 02 20:26:56 untar-me-from-root.tar.gz Apr 02 20:27:24 (thanks to the dodgey x sartup scripts OM uses $HOME is empty - thus your config files end up in /) Apr 02 20:27:45 i'm not worrying about integration currently as there is much code to be done Apr 02 20:27:48 and then theme work Apr 02 20:27:54 after that i can worry about integration Apr 02 20:27:57 raster, /root worked for me Apr 02 20:28:00 but others are doing that for me anyway Apr 02 20:28:07 but / did not work Apr 02 20:28:14 thos: ? Apr 02 20:28:18 aah found it... Apr 02 20:28:20 on OM Apr 02 20:28:23 when it starts the wm Apr 02 20:28:24 yes Apr 02 20:28:26 (eg matchbox) Apr 02 20:28:30 $HOME is not set Apr 02 20:28:44 e ends up using / as home as a result Apr 02 20:29:00 erm Apr 02 20:29:10 eh? Apr 02 20:30:02 e just replaces matchbox if u install it Apr 02 20:30:03 thats all Apr 02 20:30:10 it inherits the same environment Apr 02 20:30:15 where $HOME is not set Apr 02 20:30:22 took me a while to find that out actually Apr 02 20:30:47 my $HOME is set here Apr 02 20:31:26 if u ssh in - it is Apr 02 20:32:05 this may have changed Apr 02 20:32:16 raster, there are plenty of other things that rely on $HOME, and they've always worked Apr 02 20:32:30 but not in the images i build - and whatever i build doesnt seem to resemble what other people do even tho i update and rebuild as everyone else does Apr 02 20:35:18 so nothing ever worked for you Apr 02 20:35:21 interesting Apr 02 20:36:38 things work Apr 02 20:36:41 they just stick stuff in / Apr 02 20:37:41 oh sorry Apr 02 20:37:44 HOME is set to /. Apr 02 20:37:46 not unset Apr 02 20:37:52 haha Apr 02 20:37:58 something is really fucked in your build Apr 02 20:38:14 root@fic-gta02:~$ cat /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90xXWindowManager Apr 02 20:38:15 #!/bin/sh Apr 02 20:38:15 echo "HOME=$HOME" > /tmp/HOME-VALUE Apr 02 20:38:15 if [ -x $HOME/.Xsession ]; then Apr 02 20:38:15 exec $HOME/.Xsession Apr 02 20:38:15 else Apr 02 20:38:17 exec /usr/bin/x-window-manager Apr 02 20:38:19 fi Apr 02 20:38:21 (i added the echo) Apr 02 20:38:31 root@fic-gta02:~$ cat /tmp/HOME-VALUE Apr 02 20:38:31 HOME=/ Apr 02 20:38:36 * raster shrugs Apr 02 20:38:40 OM never works forme Apr 02 20:38:49 it always builds something completely shit Apr 02 20:38:53 echo Apr 02 20:39:04 echo Apr 02 20:39:04 echo Apr 02 20:39:11 my images dont resemble the images others build Apr 02 20:39:12 ni idea why Apr 02 20:39:14 no Apr 02 20:39:24 i just use mokomakefile and do the make update Apr 02 20:39:26 and whatever Apr 02 20:39:28 it builds stuff Apr 02 20:39:33 just nothing like anyone else Apr 02 20:39:51 have you cleaned out build/tmp lateley? Apr 02 20:39:56 i gave up a long tiem ago - thats why i wont bother doing integration work Apr 02 20:40:05 i have done it several times Apr 02 20:40:50 recently? Apr 02 20:40:55 yes Apr 02 20:41:00 ie since the abi change Apr 02 20:41:05 i did it march 11 or so Apr 02 20:41:09 k Apr 02 20:41:13 and all sorts of shite broke Apr 02 20:41:18 are you sure? Apr 02 20:41:19 i reverted back to something that works Apr 02 20:41:21 yes Apr 02 20:41:23 are you reall sure? Apr 02 20:41:29 are you really really sure? Apr 02 20:41:32 :P Apr 02 20:41:33 i spent a day hunting down all sorts of breaks Apr 02 20:41:37 yes Apr 02 20:41:42 hrmm.. Apr 02 20:41:42 i am tired of wasting my time with OM Apr 02 20:41:47 i have development todo Apr 02 20:41:55 not some build monster to vanquish Apr 02 20:42:56 that's why I have a build box all seperate from my development machine :-) Apr 02 20:43:06 since october i have probably wasted sevral weeks of my work time just wrestling with OM. Apr 02 20:43:16 well OE/OM Apr 02 20:43:29 it has no funny environment, just stock OS, so everything works a charm Apr 02 20:43:31 i got tired of it so i just get on with other stuff Apr 02 20:43:38 plus it's a quad core with several gigs of ram helps Apr 02 20:43:44 mmm... Apr 02 20:43:46 i don't intend to do that Apr 02 20:43:52 * ScaredyCat builds on lappy... no problems Apr 02 20:44:00 raster, I didn't say you did :-) Apr 02 20:44:00 it's my main machine atm Apr 02 20:44:03 if OE/OM can't work normally for someone with their standard workign env - too bad. Apr 02 20:44:15 it works for all my collegues on their own machines Apr 02 20:44:25 I just don't like it making my lap warm :-) Apr 02 20:44:28 i spent a long time finding out that if u have a DEBUG env var set OE wont uset it Apr 02 20:44:32 and me too.... Apr 02 20:44:32 raster, you must be a linux n00b ;) Apr 02 20:44:37 and it makes pcmcia-utils build go really pear shaped Apr 02 20:44:44 ScaredyCat: them there are fighting words Apr 02 20:44:46 eatign up 100's of gb of my disk Apr 02 20:44:57 ScaredyCat: yeah. real n00b Apr 02 20:45:02 Stephmw: hehehe Apr 02 20:45:18 * ScaredyCat prods raster with a clean, working om build Apr 02 20:45:47 * Stephmw digs at the OE buildsystem... it wobbles Apr 02 20:45:51 I will admit - I upgraded my lapy hdd Apr 02 20:46:10 80gb -> 160 Apr 02 20:46:15 ScaredyCat: min builds stuff Apr 02 20:46:20 oe still steals it all Apr 02 20:46:21 i am not touching it again Apr 02 20:46:27 mine Apr 02 20:46:41 that's an issue with complex buildsystems - they become a piece of magic Apr 02 20:46:46 every time i have touched it and change dsomething i lost several days into making it work again Apr 02 20:46:58 i am not sinking the time again. Apr 02 20:51:19 is a API for the OM calendar available? Apr 02 20:51:38 playya, yeah, it's called libical Apr 02 20:51:42 hehe Apr 02 20:51:44 * thos is mean Apr 02 20:51:46 thx Apr 02 20:52:19 playya, what do you want to do specifically? Apr 02 20:52:32 answering machine Apr 02 20:52:38 ?!?!! Apr 02 20:52:44 just writung the text for GSoC Apr 02 20:52:44 how's that related to calendar? Apr 02 20:53:12 maybe you have a meeting and do not want to change your annoncement by yourself Apr 02 20:53:43 the answering machine should change it if you have a meeting Apr 02 20:54:01 or if you are having fun @ dentist Apr 02 20:54:08 playya, oh right, interesting Apr 02 20:54:22 i think so too Apr 02 20:54:36 playya, isn't it a bit late for GSoC Apr 02 20:54:37 oh Apr 02 20:54:42 they extended the deadline right? Apr 02 20:54:51 just made a mistake with SoC. thought i need a mentor first Apr 02 20:54:53 yes Apr 02 20:54:55 till sunday Apr 02 20:54:59 cool Apr 02 20:55:06 playya, CC me in if you mail anyone about it Apr 02 20:55:14 * stefan_schmidt looks how many gsoc apps we have already Apr 02 20:55:18 yes Apr 02 20:55:19 playya, thomas@openedhand.com, I think I could mentor Apr 02 20:55:25 Stephmw, how many? Apr 02 20:55:27 48 right now Apr 02 20:55:27 wah Apr 02 20:55:36 stefan_schmidt, is there a status page? Apr 02 20:55:41 how many countries? Apr 02 20:55:51 stefan_schmidt, are they all for "port plan9"? ;-) Apr 02 20:55:52 thos: only if you are a mentor. :( Apr 02 20:56:04 stefan_schmidt, sure, I don't mind Apr 02 20:56:21 stefan_schmidt, this idea sounds like it will use a lot of the stuff I already wrote (api etc) Apr 02 20:56:24 thos: A lot gesture stuff and the rest is mixed Apr 02 20:56:32 heh gesture Apr 02 20:56:34 waste of time Apr 02 20:56:42 thos: No problem if you apply as a mentor Apr 02 20:56:46 this answerphone idea sounds much better :-) Apr 02 20:56:49 ah Apr 02 20:56:52 stefan_schmidt, good point Apr 02 20:56:59 stefan_schmidt, too late for that I guess? Apr 02 20:57:05 gestures like on the wii might be cool but i wouldn't playy wii in public Apr 02 20:57:13 Not really waste of time. Nice stuff. But only one can do it Apr 02 20:57:25 thos: hmm, I think you can still apply. Apr 02 20:57:34 stefan_schmidt, url? Apr 02 20:57:43 playya, did you submit a proposal online? Apr 02 20:57:44 not offhand Apr 02 20:58:01 not yet Apr 02 20:58:11 just writing the detailed description of it Apr 02 20:58:56 thos: The URL was pretty strange to find. Something like mentor-add Apr 02 20:59:06 stefan_schmidt, don't I ihave to be invited to be a mentor? Apr 02 20:59:18 I never found a link to it from the GSoC pages. Google search should be your friend. :) Apr 02 20:59:43 thos: no, you apply and the admins accept or reject Apr 02 21:00:46 IIRC last year we had ~30 proposals and got 3 slots, this year we have ~50, so let's hope we get also more slots. :) Apr 02 21:01:45 oh Apr 02 21:01:46 stefan_schmidt, found it Apr 02 21:01:51 good Apr 02 21:02:02 oh Apr 02 21:02:03 nope Apr 02 21:02:10 Have to work a bit now. I'll accept it later. Apr 02 21:02:28 ok really found it now Apr 02 21:03:08 woo Apr 02 21:03:18 stefan_schmidt, ok "OpenMoko Inc. Your Mentoring Acceptance is Pending" Apr 02 21:03:32 playya, now hold up your end of the bargain and get the proposal submitted ;-) Apr 02 21:03:36 thos: ok, I'll approve it later Apr 02 21:03:52 ok Apr 02 21:04:23 with the words of james from dinner for one: "I'll do my very best ;)" Apr 02 21:05:40 openmoko: 03thomas * r4300 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c src/sms-notes.c src/sms-utils.c): (log message trimmed) Apr 02 21:05:40 openmoko: 2008-04-02 Thomas Wood Apr 02 21:05:40 openmoko: * src/sms-contacts.c: Apr 02 21:05:40 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: Apr 02 21:05:40 openmoko: * src/sms-utils.c: Apr 02 21:05:44 openmoko: Re-add the New button to the notes pages. Apr 02 21:05:46 openmoko: Add a delete all button to the contacts page, to delete all selected Apr 02 21:05:48 grumble Apr 02 21:05:53 I shouldn't be working :-) Apr 02 21:06:16 but at least openmoko-messages2 is less crazy now Apr 02 21:14:12 openmoko: 03werner * r4301 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: (log message trimmed) Apr 02 21:14:12 openmoko: add-lis302dl-gta02-a6-int1-only.patch Apr 02 21:14:12 openmoko: A6 uses int1 only and no pullup, adapt according to PCB revision Apr 02 21:14:12 openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green Apr 02 21:14:12 openmoko: [ Changed to use system_rev, like everyone else. ] Apr 02 21:14:16 openmoko: --- Apr 02 21:14:18 openmoko: arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/mach-gta02.c | 17 +++++++++++++++-- Apr 02 21:18:45 another intresting thing might be a distributed package server Apr 02 21:18:55 thought of this for the XO Apr 02 22:08:16 netsplits are nice :-D Apr 02 22:10:56 they are funky Apr 02 22:11:37 they are the only reason I'm here :P Apr 02 22:12:31 they really brighten up my day Apr 02 22:12:39 it's what irc was made for Apr 02 22:12:43 agreed Apr 02 22:12:50 and you never know when they're going to happen Apr 02 22:12:55 they're such a surprise Apr 02 22:13:10 you don't have one in ages, then BOOM Apr 02 22:13:12 net split Apr 02 22:13:16 lets do bets when all the guys come back Apr 02 22:13:21 and everything is good again Apr 02 22:13:32 out fallen members Apr 02 22:13:35 *our Apr 02 22:14:30 23:25:07 Apr 02 22:14:49 23:15:07 Apr 02 22:14:51 i mean Apr 02 22:14:55 grr Apr 02 22:14:59 i lost Apr 02 22:22:02 they let us know that one was going to happen Apr 02 22:22:15 did you not see the message from christel? Apr 02 22:22:35 [Global Notice] Hi all! I'm about to do a teeny bit of re-routing, it shouldn't be too messy -- affected users should be around 7K. Have a great day and thank you for using freenode! Apr 02 22:23:01 its great how 7000 users is a teeny bit Apr 02 22:24:00 7k... great, they got speedevil, jeffdameth, kdean06, playya and rwhitby Apr 02 22:24:27 there they are! Apr 02 22:24:32 web guys! Apr 02 22:24:38 s/web/wb Apr 02 23:01:47 *sigh* Apr 02 23:02:45 * SpeedEvil zaps summatusmentis with his sigh explanator. Apr 02 23:03:12 SpeedEvil: lol, oh, sorry Apr 02 23:03:46 Tired, want mickeyl to come back, might be writing another SoC app, and I have to read, and work on a Java Heap assignment tonight Apr 02 23:04:03 What on? Apr 02 23:04:08 (SoC) Apr 02 23:04:56 for OpenAFS, porting some of the features in the OpenAFS patch to the linux kernel to the afs code in the kernel(to allow read/authenticate/write instead of just read) Apr 02 23:05:35 Funky. Apr 02 23:05:52 That's a distributed filesystem? Apr 02 23:05:54 currently OpenAFS code is not GPL, and therefore, not allowable in standard kernel Apr 02 23:05:55 yeah Apr 02 23:06:19 If you apply for multiple projects, do you get to pick between them if selected? Apr 02 23:06:30 I'm not sure how the decision is made Apr 02 23:06:39 you mean if both projects want me? Apr 02 23:07:06 yes. Apr 02 23:07:17 np: Human League - Don't you want me baby? Apr 02 23:07:31 I've been told if multiple projects want me, the organizations battle it out w/ either mud wrestling, or rock, paper, scissors Apr 02 23:41:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57bfxsiVTd4 Apr 02 23:41:33 Grace Hopper. Apr 03 00:38:29 Can anyone remind me where the information about 'mounted' input devices can be found? Apr 03 00:38:49 ah Apr 03 00:39:39 /proc/bus/input/devices Apr 03 01:14:14 Off-topic. I have a USB HID UPS. It reports stuff like http://www.mauve.plus.com/lsv.txt - but isn't recognised by any driver. I assume there is no dd if=/wherever I can do to read all this info and parse it myself if there is no driver? Apr 03 01:25:29 * SpeedEvil sighs. Latest build - a fresh build - no X on startup. Apr 03 01:29:39 On the upside - it's much faster to boot. Apr 03 01:29:56 Odd - second boot it seems to maybe be starting. Apr 03 01:31:20 Ah - it has. Apr 03 01:31:38 But the display is still broken. Apr 03 01:35:23 anyone know how the gta02 performs in sunlight? Apr 03 01:35:29 this is really a dealbreaker for me Apr 03 01:35:33 Likely no better. Apr 03 01:35:36 I.E. poorly Apr 03 01:35:40 :( Apr 03 01:36:12 guess I'm not getting one so Apr 03 01:36:32 If you don't go out in the daylight much, this is fine. Apr 03 01:36:46 But as it's being sold to linux geeks, this is not a limitation in practice. Apr 03 01:37:05 I need it to work as an archery scoring application platform Apr 03 01:37:10 so I might as well get an n810 Apr 03 01:37:20 ewon: the touchscreen will _not_ stand up to that. Apr 03 01:37:31 why not? Apr 03 01:37:51 The arrows'd go right through. Apr 03 01:37:57 * ewon blinks Apr 03 01:37:58 lawl Apr 03 01:38:59 I'm basing this off the lack of 'OMG the screen on my GTA02 is so much better in sunlight' posts from the core team. Apr 03 01:39:30 just saw a nice home made add for Linux called "Flying Penguins" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLHjT5-XM9o Apr 03 01:41:03 Has anyone built from source in the last week? Apr 03 01:52:25 Is there an X screenshotter in the default image? Apr 03 01:53:42 SpeedEvil: hey not all of us living indoors Apr 03 01:54:07 unknown_lamer: Of course not. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 03 02:59:57 2008