**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 09 02:59:57 2008
Apr 09 03:04:03 <gerro> the openmoko out yet?
Apr 09 03:04:42 <Tronic_> See topic.
Apr 09 03:11:51 <gerro> Tronic_: so... its not?
Apr 09 03:12:16 <SpeedEvil> Openmoko is a linux distribution - that's out.
Apr 09 03:12:26 <SpeedEvil> The actual purchasable hardware - not yet
Apr 09 03:14:24 <gerro> I heard a test version of hardware was out last summer so was just asking since its now spring, I'll probably be google migrating for it come summer too
Apr 09 03:14:57 <SpeedEvil> That run has sold out.
Apr 09 03:15:01 <SpeedEvil> New version - 'soon'.
Apr 09 03:15:21 <gerro> you mean non beta version?
Apr 09 03:15:26 <SpeedEvil> In theory.
Apr 09 03:15:37 <SpeedEvil> There are yet no known bugs in it.
Apr 09 03:15:46 <gerro> where some specs I'm bit curious
Apr 09 03:16:08 <gerro> might get started compiling over some favorite apps of mine
Apr 09 03:17:42 <SpeedEvil> Many apps are already in the repository
Apr 09 03:17:59 <SpeedEvil> See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner
Apr 09 03:18:56 <gerro> lol
Apr 09 03:23:29 <zash> SpeedEvil: fixed that for you
Apr 09 03:24:29 <SpeedEvil> ?
Apr 09 03:24:44 <zash> there was no "Freerunner"-page
Apr 09 03:24:48 <SpeedEvil> oh
Apr 09 03:28:44 <zash> :D
Apr 09 03:38:06 <doc|home> so, did I miss something on the community list or why are people answering wifi *or* 3g? Why couldn't the gta03 have both? (it being at least what, 2 years away?)
Apr 09 03:38:29 <SpeedEvil> no
Apr 09 03:38:36 * doc|home wants both, in fact, would be disappointed if there wasn't both
Apr 09 03:38:37 <SpeedEvil> I dunno
Apr 09 03:38:45 <SpeedEvil> I would certainly want both
Apr 09 03:39:04 <SpeedEvil> For example - 1G/mo is 10 pounds/month here - 3G/mo is 15
Apr 09 03:39:27 <doc|home> data rates are just out of the question here :/
Apr 09 03:39:32 <doc|home> while every cafe has wifi
Apr 09 03:39:34 <doc|home> free
Apr 09 03:39:36 <SpeedEvil> (UK)
Apr 09 03:39:41 <doc|home> (canada)
Apr 09 03:39:55 <doc|home> quad band with hsdpa :)
Apr 09 03:39:58 <doc|home> and wifi of course
Apr 09 03:40:07 <doc|home> and a kitchen sink (optional)
Apr 09 03:40:20 <SpeedEvil> The problem is that AIUI you need about 5 3G models to cover the world.
Apr 09 03:40:36 <SpeedEvil> Or maybe a couple less if you use expensive multiband chipsets.
Apr 09 03:40:36 <doc|home> why 5?
Apr 09 03:40:51 <doc|home> different frequency ranges?
Apr 09 03:40:57 <SpeedEvil> And modulations
Apr 09 03:41:06 <SpeedEvil> japan is on its own forex
Apr 09 03:41:22 <doc|home> interesting to know would the expense of the multiband not cut on the expense of switching the manufacturing lines
Apr 09 03:42:40 <macdonalder> if the cips are just drop-in replacements it probably wouldn't be that bad
Apr 09 03:42:42 <macdonalder> guessing though
Apr 09 03:42:47 <macdonalder> *chips
Apr 09 03:42:56 <doc|home> would be nice to have something that could work in europe / north america personally
Apr 09 03:44:04 <macdonalder> in canada, who offers the most reasonable data plans?
Apr 09 03:44:06 <macdonalder> rogers?
Apr 09 03:44:31 <doc|home> rogers/fido are the only gsm based provider, same company, same exorbitant data rates
Apr 09 03:44:45 <doc|home> it's lack of competition thanks to regulation :/
Apr 09 03:44:47 <macdonalder> heh, yeah, that's what I thought
Apr 09 03:45:03 * macdonalder is currently with rogers, but hasn't looked into data
Apr 09 03:46:20 <doc|home> I did and ran away very very quickly :)
Apr 09 03:46:25 <doc|home> brb
Apr 09 04:04:45 <summatusmentis> hi abraxa_ 
Apr 09 04:04:51 <summatusmentis> or rather, abraxa__ 
Apr 09 04:07:16 <mwester> Is he hogging all the underscores again?
Apr 09 04:07:33 <summatusmentis> seemingly
Apr 09 04:07:39 <summatusmentis> leave some for the rest of use...
Apr 09 04:07:41 <summatusmentis> us*
Apr 09 04:21:51 <summatusmentis> is it pretty standard practice for code to be "GPLv2 or Later" ?
Apr 09 04:23:49 <unknown_lamer> yes
Apr 09 04:24:10 <summatusmentis> why not just say GPLv3?
Apr 09 04:24:27 <SpeedEvil> 4
Apr 09 04:25:17 <summatusmentis> ok, but why even mention 2 anymore?
Apr 09 04:26:43 <unknown_lamer> Perhaps the code has not been updated since v3 was released / it is a PITA to edit the legalese in every file 
Apr 09 04:27:04 <summatusmentis> I suppose that's true
Apr 09 04:28:17 <SpeedEvil> 2 has some freedoms 3 does not
Apr 09 04:29:53 <summatusmentis> well, if you say "or later" it means 3 anyway right?
Apr 09 04:29:57 <SpeedEvil> No
Apr 09 04:30:04 <unknown_lamer> it means that you can use it under either
Apr 09 04:30:06 <SpeedEvil> It measn you have the option of choosing 2
Apr 09 04:30:15 <summatusmentis> oh, I guess that makes sense then
Apr 09 04:30:33 <unknown_lamer> as it is "at your option"
Apr 09 04:30:41 <unknown_lamer> or whatever
Apr 09 04:31:57 <summatusmentis> right, makes sense
Apr 09 04:32:13 <summatusmentis> sometimes I think it'd be easier to live in europe
Apr 09 04:32:31 <summatusmentis> then I'd be on the same timezone as a lot of OSS people
Apr 09 04:36:31 <unknown_lamer> just invert your sleeping schedule
Apr 09 04:37:09 <summatusmentis> I need to go to classes too :)
Apr 09 04:39:59 <unknown_lamer> drop out ;-)
Apr 09 04:40:24 <unknown_lamer> bah I need to sleep myself ... I keep telling myself I need to sleep before two a.m. and I have failed yet again
Apr 09 04:40:47 <unknown_lamer> after the six plates of /Jerusalem/ I have to read at least (curse you Blake and your six page long passages with no breaking points)
Apr 09 04:53:26 <summatusmentis> if I drop out, then I can't do GSoC
Apr 09 04:53:43 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Apr 09 04:53:52 * SpeedEvil ponders a new spam subject.
Apr 09 04:54:09 <SpeedEvil> 'We provide all the credentials required for GSoC!'
Apr 09 04:54:18 <unknown_lamer> hah
Apr 09 04:54:37 <summatusmentis> lol
Apr 09 04:54:44 <SpeedEvil> Oddly - 50% of my adult spam seems to have switched to adwords.
Apr 09 04:55:47 <mbuf> what is the difference between GTA03 and FreeRunner?
Apr 09 04:57:04 <SpeedEvil> GTA03 has a V8 and FPGA.
Apr 09 04:57:47 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, sorry, what is the V8? and what is the FPGA used for?
Apr 09 04:57:55 <SpeedEvil> Sorry.
Apr 09 04:57:59 <SpeedEvil> Being serious.
Apr 09 04:58:21 <SpeedEvil> A V8 is a 8 cylinder engine with the cylinders arranged in a V
Apr 09 04:58:40 <SpeedEvil> And the last we heard, GTA03 is basically scribbles on paper at the moment.
Apr 09 04:59:20 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, they probably have plans for that
Apr 09 04:59:35 <SpeedEvil> I have doubts.
Apr 09 04:59:45 <SpeedEvil> They are pretty much at the moment - AIUI - working flat out on GAT01
Apr 09 04:59:48 <SpeedEvil> GTA02
Apr 09 05:00:25 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, ok
Apr 09 05:07:13 <summatusmentis> we need to make the mentors for GSoC spend more time on IRC
Apr 09 05:14:59 <doc|home> hey, what's in those scribbles? :)
Apr 09 05:15:15 <SpeedEvil> They looked like a duck to me.
Apr 09 05:15:21 <summatusmentis> I want a duck
Apr 09 05:15:31 <macdonalder> a perpetual motion machine, clearly
Apr 09 05:16:56 <doc|home> about damn time
Apr 09 05:18:29 <macdonalder> all that time spent working on power management, right out the window ;)
Apr 09 05:18:38 <macdonalder> problem solved
Apr 09 05:18:42 <doc|home> swings and roundabouts man
Apr 09 06:36:24 <methril> morning
Apr 09 06:57:56 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 09 06:58:52 <mbuf> Hopscotch, good morning
Apr 09 07:10:39 <doc|home> http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/08/iphone-3gs-baseband-chip-revealed/
Apr 09 07:10:53 <doc|home> interesting chip, a 7.2Mbps HSDPA chip with all the video acceleration and media playback features iPhone users have come to expect. 
Apr 09 07:11:06 <doc|home> Advantages over its predecessor include higher resolution camera support (5 megapixels instead of 2), a 2x speed MMC / SD interface and DVB-H module support,
Apr 09 07:40:41 <SpeedEvil> Will they actually sell it to other than apple though.
Apr 09 07:44:39 <methril> nice
Apr 09 07:44:49 <methril> chip
Apr 09 07:47:40 <TRIsoft> morning
Apr 09 07:49:14 <SpeedEvil> http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6ab94205ef
Apr 09 07:50:45 <SpeedEvil> http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/services/download.html?filename=%2fdgdl%2fPMB8878_S-GOLD3H.pdf%3ffolderId%3ddb3a304312fcb1bc0113000c158f0004%26fileId%3ddb3a3043136c9a8b01136d6407dc003c&location=Products.Wireless_Communication.Cellular_ICs.Baseband___Single_Chip.WCDMA___HSDPA.X-GOLD_sup_TM__sup__608_-_PMB_8878.PRODUCT_TYPE_DOCUMENTS.PMB8878_S-GOLD3H.pdf
Apr 09 07:55:19 <ScaredyCat> summatusmentis: imho v3 is not good
Apr 09 07:55:28 <ScaredyCat> v2 would be better
Apr 09 07:56:20 <ScaredyCat> and I'm not sure if you'd have problems mixing  2 and 3...
Apr 09 08:14:15 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4330 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gps/src/openmoko-panel-gps.c: openmoko-panel-gps: detect GPS ON or OFF every 5 seconds (Erin Yueh)
Apr 09 08:14:57 <ScaredyCat> mmm,,,,
Apr 09 08:15:16 <ScaredyCat> isn't there a dbus interface to the gps then?
Apr 09 08:15:22 <ScaredyCat> (ro going to be)
Apr 09 08:15:29 <ScaredyCat> or
Apr 09 08:16:29 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4331 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt/src/openmoko-panel-bt.c: openmoko-panel-bt: detect bluetooth ON or OFF every 5 seconds (Erin Yueh)
Apr 09 08:16:48 <ScaredyCat> isn't there a dbus interface to bt then?
Apr 09 08:16:51 <ScaredyCat> (ro going to be)
Apr 09 08:16:52 <ScaredyCat> or
Apr 09 08:16:56 <ScaredyCat> :D
Apr 09 08:24:37 <CM> Hehe
Apr 09 08:25:41 * CM tries to build again
Apr 09 08:45:34 <jaybe> so the FreeRunner doesn't have 3G/HSDPA ?
Apr 09 08:45:42 <CM> No
Apr 09 08:45:49 <jaybe> damn
Apr 09 08:46:35 <jaybe> i've been following this project for months and was looking forward to getting a linux based phone
Apr 09 08:46:56 <rtm> It will still be a nice phone.
Apr 09 08:47:12 <jaybe> since the project stalled I ended up getting a Nokia N95 8GB and now depend on its features
Apr 09 08:47:32 <CM> I wouldn't say stalled
Apr 09 08:47:50 <CM> But I agree it has been somewhat delayed
Apr 09 08:47:51 <jaybe> I can't go without HSDPA and GPS would be nice
Apr 09 08:47:52 <CM> :)
Apr 09 08:48:08 <jaybe> oh well
Apr 09 08:48:20 <CM> You use it to get internet on your laptop or so?
Apr 09 08:48:30 <jaybe> yes
Apr 09 08:48:54 <CM> No FreeRunner for you then
Apr 09 08:49:12 <jaybe> i've put my vote on blog.automated.it
Apr 09 08:49:28 <jaybe> maybe a future release
Apr 09 08:49:56 <CM> ScaredyCat: Wow, 574 votes
Apr 09 08:50:25 <jaybe> yeah, looks like lots of people need it aswell
Apr 09 08:50:40 <macdonalder> I was actually looking at that the other day as well, lots of votes
Apr 09 08:51:08 <pyknite> did you see the new update: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
Apr 09 08:51:13 <pyknite> a good news ;)
Apr 09 08:51:19 <ScaredyCat> CM: yeah, good to see .. I was dreading  <20 vote 
Apr 09 08:51:54 <macdonalder> pyknite: ooo... that is new...
Apr 09 08:52:06 <pyknite> yeah.. i just it now
Apr 09 08:53:58 <rtm> Does anyone understand why, with all the little hardware tweeks they had to do for the Freerunner, they were not able to also fix whatever it is that prevents it from being a quad band phone?
Apr 09 08:55:27 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r163 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (5 files in 2 dirs): varios bugfixes after rewrite :-)
Apr 09 08:56:52 <macdonalder> rtm: according to the wiki it has to do with the lack of 850MHz support in north america
Apr 09 08:57:18 <macdonalder> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#850_MHz_band_not_supported_in_USA.2BCanada_.28e.g._comment_24_on_bug_.23256.29
Apr 09 08:59:29 <rtm> THe whole thing seems odd, and I certainly don't know much about it, but since they were able to mod some neo1973s to work at 850, and since the neo1973 was originally advertised to be a quad band phone, it sounded to my uneducated ears like they had screwed something up in the boards layout of the neo1973, and I'm just surprised that since there were several itterations of the Freerunner hardware after the quad band problem was uncove
Apr 09 08:59:29 <rtm> red, they still didn't create a quad band Freerunner.
Apr 09 09:00:30 <macdonalder> unfortunately I'm not familiar with the particulars so I can't offer anything beyond what I've linked :S
Apr 09 09:01:19 <rtm> macdonalder: Thanks.   I had run across that page, but it really doesn't cover why the problem could not be fixed.
Apr 09 09:02:35 <rtm> Now they have to produce 2 versions of the Freerunner, with and without 850, and that sounds like more of a hassle than just fixing the problem.   But I know nithing about the details.
Apr 09 09:09:29 <ScaredyCat> rtm: have a chat with mwester
Apr 09 09:11:49 <rtm> I was just idly curious.
Apr 09 09:33:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1331 has been created by ebbe(AT)skummer.com
Apr 09 09:33:02 <cdbot2> * * Can't reply to "Unknown sender"
Apr 09 09:33:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1331
Apr 09 09:34:29 <CM> He should have written "number not in address book" instead of unknown sender
Apr 09 09:47:14 <ScaredyCat> unknown sender is silly...
Apr 09 09:47:26 <ScaredyCat> the sms will have a number in it..
Apr 09 09:47:30 <ScaredyCat> that's the sender
Apr 09 09:47:32 <ScaredyCat> right?
Apr 09 09:48:16 <nezza-_-> yeah
Apr 09 09:49:32 <josch> cant you send sms without revealing your number as you can do with calls?
Apr 09 09:50:24 <maroi> mh, i think that the gsm firmware is responsible for that unknown signal, because emergency organizastions always get the number
Apr 09 09:50:33 <maroi> -signal +sender
Apr 09 09:52:54 <gatestone> Any experinces: what is the most challenging thing for a Windows/Symbian developer to start using Linux/POSIX libraries and/or GNU/Eclipse etc...
Apr 09 09:53:34 <nezza-_-> josch: yes, you can't hide your number in a sms message
Apr 09 10:08:52 <nezza-_-> does anybody here know a device which is able to put a VoIP call into a normal telephonesystem? i don't need a gateway like sipgate, i need a device which transforms it.
Apr 09 10:09:10 <ScaredyCat> josch: no..
Apr 09 10:09:51 <ScaredyCat> nezza-_-: sipura 3000
Apr 09 10:10:35 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: have you used this device?
Apr 09 10:11:18 <ScaredyCat> we have one attached to our fax and I've configured lots for other people
Apr 09 10:11:57 <ScaredyCat> you could also build a little asterisk box with fxo card in it 
Apr 09 10:12:09 <ScaredyCat> I'm of course assuming you have an analogue line
Apr 09 10:12:11 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: yeah okay thankyou!
Apr 09 10:12:28 <nezza-_-> yes, its analog
Apr 09 10:12:51 <ScaredyCat> k
Apr 09 10:13:17 <ScaredyCat> and your source protocol is sip?
Apr 09 10:13:38 <ScaredyCat> that's important for the SIPura :)
Apr 09 10:14:43 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: i was first looking for devices which are doing such things, and know we will definitely use SIP :)
Apr 09 10:15:22 <nezza-_-> seams like SPA3000 is discontinued, but I've already found some other devices which are smiliar :) thanks a lot!
Apr 09 10:15:56 <ScaredyCat> ahhh ok... 
Apr 09 10:16:10 <ScaredyCat> I assume you've looked at asterisk too ?
Apr 09 10:17:07 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: yes, but its the first time i'm working with such things, and i think this is what im looking for :)
Apr 09 10:17:21 <nezza-_-> I just need to convert VoIP to analog ;) 
Apr 09 10:18:37 <ScaredyCat> well, there are lots of things like the sipura, mediatrix to bigger boxes too
Apr 09 10:23:52 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: okay.. yeah we are talking about 7 to 15 calls at the same time.. so i have to look for devices which are able to manage such things
Apr 09 10:30:52 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: do you know if there are differences between countries in the technology which is used on the analog networks?
Apr 09 10:41:36 <ScaredyCat> nezza-_-: yes there are
Apr 09 10:41:44 <ScaredyCat> differences...
Apr 09 10:42:13 <ScaredyCat> but iirc on the medatrix boxes you select the country in the config..
Apr 09 10:42:27 <ScaredyCat> I'm pretty sure most boxes will be the same
Apr 09 10:43:16 <ScaredyCat> ie you set the country you're intalling it in on the config
Apr 09 10:43:35 <nezza-_-> okay.. so if i want to put VoIP to a normal net i have to use a FXO gateway?
Apr 09 10:44:45 <ScaredyCat> yes.. if you're using analog lines
Apr 09 10:45:11 <ScaredyCat> if you use digital ones you'll need a t1/e1/isdn interface
Apr 09 10:45:29 <ScaredyCat> it's a fairly simple process really..
Apr 09 10:45:46 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: okay thank you
Apr 09 10:45:53 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03tick * r4332 10/developers/tick/scripts/inverse_color.script: add a script the inverse the color setting of edc files
Apr 09 10:46:10 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: but  i think the Mediatrix boxes are only providing FXS if i get it right
Apr 09 10:46:57 <ScaredyCat> http://www.mediatrix.com/products_devices.php?prodid=13
Apr 09 10:47:27 <nezza-_-> ah okay 
Apr 09 10:57:43 <pleaseandthankyo> what are police there for really(i am sure more than half is not enforcing governmental laws)? how to get on the side of the police when encountered? should i pay money to the police/tip whenever they shows up or in advance?
Apr 09 10:59:45 <Stephmw> pleaseandthankyo: huh?
Apr 09 11:02:27 <florian> good morning
Apr 09 11:03:06 <loufoque> openmoko takes a few minutes to start?
Apr 09 11:03:13 <loufoque> isn't that problematic for a phone?
Apr 09 11:03:36 <SpeedEvil>   no
Apr 09 11:03:44 <SpeedEvil> A) Work needed
Apr 09 11:04:15 <SpeedEvil> B) It should just suspend normally, never switch off.
Apr 09 11:04:23 <SpeedEvil> resume from disk should be fast.
Apr 09 11:05:46 <SpeedEvil> C) Add a cool animation.
Apr 09 11:05:57 <maroi> btw.. i don't know if you already know the link and i didn't read the document but maybe it's interesting for some of you: http://www.linuxinsight.com/ols2006_why_userspace_sucks_or_101_really_dumb_things_your_app_shouldnt_do.html
Apr 09 11:06:22 <maroi> my nokia n70 also needs about 40 seconds for booting
Apr 09 11:06:59 <SpeedEvil> In principle - resume from disk should take under 20s or so.
Apr 09 11:07:08 <SpeedEvil> Probably more like 10s.
Apr 09 11:07:33 <SpeedEvil> Actually no - disk is quite slow - maybe 25s.
Apr 09 11:08:05 <SpeedEvil> But resume from RAM should be immediate.
Apr 09 11:14:39 <wibbit> loufoque: I'm not sure about other phones, but I know my Nokia E70 takes about a minute to start after the battery had been removed.
Apr 09 11:14:49 <wibbit> loufoque: as does my partners Nokia N70
Apr 09 11:15:15 <wibbit> loufoque: it could just be the new nokia's or it could be that newer phones take much longer than the older phones to start.
Apr 09 11:15:39 <SpeedEvil> That's basically it.
Apr 09 11:15:44 <maroi> wibbit, afaik all symbian phones are slow..
Apr 09 11:15:46 <SpeedEvil> My GPS takes a couple of mins too.
Apr 09 11:15:46 <loufoque> maroi: 40 seconds isn't the same as more than 2 minutes
Apr 09 11:15:52 <wibbit> loufoque: I'd time it for you, but it's at the nokia service centre to be repaired
Apr 09 11:15:55 <SpeedEvil> loufoque: waqs this the first boot?
Apr 09 11:15:59 <SpeedEvil> First boot is slower.
Apr 09 11:16:18 <loufoque> yes, I'm talking about real boots
Apr 09 11:16:23 <loufoque> not restoring from disk or ram
Apr 09 11:16:32 <wibbit> maroi: i can't really comment, as I don't really go through that many phones to be able to really judge, I just know that the E70 and N70 are slow as molasses when starting from scratch.
Apr 09 11:16:37 <SpeedEvil> You don't really care about that - long-term - though.
Apr 09 11:16:41 <wibbit> But then, how often should I be turning it off.
Apr 09 11:16:48 <SpeedEvil> As it should 'never' crash - unless the battery falls out.
Apr 09 11:17:03 <maroi> wibbit, i also own a n70 and previouly i had a 6680, both of them are very slow.. 
Apr 09 11:17:10 <wibbit> SpeedEvil: So, it won't crash if I take the battery out? Only when falls out? cooooooool
Apr 09 11:17:32 * wibbit wonders how they managed that
Apr 09 11:19:12 <wibbit> I wish the evolution address info, would allow for personal mobile and business mobile, so that one can differentiate between mobile phones
Apr 09 11:19:42 <SpeedEvil> But people only have one mobile  phone!
Apr 09 11:19:45 <SpeedEvil> They're expensive!
Apr 09 11:19:51 <SpeedEvil> <paradigm shift>
Apr 09 11:20:14 <wibbit> Yah, gota love that
Apr 09 11:20:29 <wibbit> Most of the people I know have two
Apr 09 11:20:50 <wibbit> Actually that's a total lie, but most of the people I regularly contact have two
Apr 09 11:25:57 * wibbit wonders whats the chances of getting a freerunner before my e70 comes back from nokia
Apr 09 11:27:04 * SpeedEvil calls nokia.
Apr 09 11:27:07 <SpeedEvil> Very good!
Apr 09 11:27:16 * SpeedEvil awaits his new e70.
Apr 09 11:52:57 * wibbit wonders how to get in contact with the company that sent his phone in, when the company contact is on the phone
Apr 09 12:02:43 * ScaredyCat mutters about suspend2
Apr 09 12:03:44 * CM mutters about cacao-initial
Apr 09 12:07:55 <josch> SpeedEvil, you bought a nokia e70??
Apr 09 12:08:12 <pleaseandthankyo> why is it hard to admit that i'm being bullied?
Apr 09 12:13:33 <ScaredyCat> no he phoned nokia to get them to send wibbit's one to him
Apr 09 12:15:12 <CM> cacao-initial fails to build for me: http://pastie.caboo.se/177857
Apr 09 12:15:18 <CM> ScaredyCat: You get past it?
Apr 09 12:16:21 <ScaredyCat> i sec
Apr 09 12:16:28 <ScaredyCat> s/i/1/
Apr 09 12:16:28 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: 1 sec
Apr 09 12:17:13 <CM> Seems to be an autobuild bug posted about it that fail in the same step
Apr 09 12:18:30 <ScaredyCat> line gets cut off
Apr 09 12:18:52 * ScaredyCat eventually sees the scrollbar
Apr 09 12:19:01 <CM> Hehe
Apr 09 12:25:39 <ScaredyCat> gah! srcrevs
Apr 09 12:26:49 * josch is in search for someone he can sell his e70 to... :-/
Apr 09 12:37:19 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r164 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/test/ (6 files): Refactored rest of the tests to use perform function.
Apr 09 12:46:08 <SpeedEvil> josch: I'll give you 74p for it.
Apr 09 12:50:14 <josch> SpeedEvil, hrm... i think this is not enough since others sell their used e70 on ebay for 100gbp and up
Apr 09 12:50:35 <SpeedEvil> :)]
Apr 09 13:14:59 <summatusmentis> I need to start sleeping more
Apr 09 13:24:43 <ScaredyCat> CM: what do you need cacao-initial for 
Apr 09 13:24:43 <ScaredyCat> ?
Apr 09 13:24:57 <CM> ScaredyCat: Just did a "make all"
Apr 09 13:25:03 <CM> And tried to see how far it got
Apr 09 13:25:14 <ScaredyCat> lol
Apr 09 13:25:20 <CM> At least the standard image and the qtopia image has already been built
Apr 09 13:25:24 <CM> But not the full feed
Apr 09 13:26:38 <summatusmentis> is there anyone running qemu? I'm wondering if there's a way to automatically run the stuff I need to for networking(setting up networking between qemu and host, automatically)
Apr 09 13:37:30 <ScaredyCat> does the qt one work?
Apr 09 13:37:48 <CM> I haven't tried to flash it
Apr 09 13:38:05 <CM> The regular one works pretty good, but I didn't get any sound from the musicplayer
Apr 09 13:38:18 <CM> Also, I still haven't gotten usb networking up on my pc.. wtf
Apr 09 13:38:30 <ScaredyCat> :/
Apr 09 13:43:11 <abraxa_> No sound from the music player? *perks up*
Apr 09 13:43:19 <wirrwarr> heya~
Apr 09 13:44:34 <jadams_> I tried to use my device as my phone for a day yesterday.  It's a *ton* more usable, but still not.  Also, my contacts list only showed about 20% of the contacts on my SIM card.  I was using ScaredyCat's image.  Anyone else seen this behaviour?
Apr 09 13:45:45 <ScaredyCat> not your mediaplayer abraxa_
Apr 09 13:46:08 <ScaredyCat> jadams_: the contacts should get imported automgically...
Apr 09 13:46:15 <jadams_> ScaredyCat, 20% did
Apr 09 13:46:22 <jadams_> I have 200 or so
Apr 09 13:46:30 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: oh ok
Apr 09 13:46:45 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: qtopia image...
Apr 09 13:46:46 <SpeedEvil> I also have no sound from the music player.
Apr 09 13:46:57 <CM> abraxa_: No, was your player
Apr 09 13:46:59 <ScaredyCat> jadams_: mmm.. might be worth a peek at the code..
Apr 09 13:47:03 <ScaredyCat> what?
Apr 09 13:47:03 <CM> :P
Apr 09 13:47:04 <SpeedEvil> Where is 'Pair with A2DP headphones'? :)
Apr 09 13:47:24 <CM> I just tried playing an mp3, it looked like it was playing, but no sound
Apr 09 13:47:43 <abraxa_> CM: Did you use alsactl to load a sound profile beforehand?
Apr 09 13:47:43 <CM> And since I can't ssh in, I can't really run alsamixer :(
Apr 09 13:47:49 <abraxa_> oh.
Apr 09 13:47:52 <CM> No, should give that a try
Apr 09 13:47:54 <abraxa_> Why can't you?
Apr 09 13:48:05 <CM> I just can't get usb-networking working
Apr 09 13:48:17 <CM> Can't get anything to show up on my host pc any more
Apr 09 13:48:20 <CM> No idea why
Apr 09 13:48:24 <mickey|gsoc08> unplug and replug us
Apr 09 13:48:25 <mickey|gsoc08> b
Apr 09 13:48:33 <CM> I've tried that, many times
Apr 09 13:48:34 <mickey|gsoc08> it gets stuck rarely, but sometimes
Apr 09 13:48:36 <mickey|gsoc08> bummer
Apr 09 13:48:46 <mickey|gsoc08> does it "click" if you plug usb in?
Apr 09 13:48:46 <CM> Also tried different usb ports, in case someone was broken
Apr 09 13:48:52 <CM> Rebooted...
Apr 09 13:49:10 <abraxa_> CM: All modules loaded on the host, too? 
Apr 09 13:49:22 <ScaredyCat> dmesg?
Apr 09 13:49:24 <CM> Yes, and it does register if I look at dmesg
Apr 09 13:49:57 <abraxa_> Does ifconfig -a list the device?
Apr 09 13:50:02 <CM> Here's a plugin, unplug, plugin: http://pastie.caboo.se/177888
Apr 09 13:50:27 <CM> abraxa_: Hmm.. I get one usb0, and one usb1
Apr 09 13:50:29 <CM> Odd..
Apr 09 13:50:55 <mickey|gsoc08> sounds like your usb stack got a bit corrupted
Apr 09 13:50:57 <mickey|gsoc08> which kernel ?
Apr 09 13:51:00 <mickey|gsoc08> [host]
Apr 09 13:51:08 <CM> 2.6.24-gentoo
Apr 09 13:51:14 <mickey|gsoc08> hmm, that should be ok
Apr 09 13:51:31 <Slaxxer> yay
Apr 09 13:51:38 <CM> I think I'll try a reboot to some older kernel just to see if that helps
Apr 09 13:52:47 <abraxa_> Though I do wonder if it works when using usb1 instead of usb0
Apr 09 13:53:30 <CM> abraxa_: They look like this in ifconfig: http://pastie.caboo.se/177889
Apr 09 13:54:28 <abraxa_> Can you check on the Neo which MAC is the correct one?
Apr 09 13:54:45 <ScaredyCat> mmm.. is that right? phonebook entries tied to network ?
Apr 09 13:54:55 <abraxa_> If I were you I'd just give usb0 some random IP, give usb1 the 192.168.0.200 and try that way
Apr 09 13:55:08 <CM> abraxa_: I'll give that a try :)
Apr 09 13:55:22 <CM> abraxa_: I'm at work now, just ssh:ing home
Apr 09 13:55:26 <abraxa_> ohh okay
Apr 09 13:55:49 <abraxa_> So that's what people mean when they say "make your hobby your job" ;)
Apr 09 13:56:07 <CM> Hehe, exactly ;)
Apr 09 13:56:12 <mickey|gsoc08> heh
Apr 09 13:58:27 <ScaredyCat> jadams_: I think it might be a timeout... 
Apr 09 14:00:00 <summatusmentis> abraxa_: did you see the community email? Google got 7000+ students, OM got ~1%
Apr 09 14:00:09 * summatusmentis is SoL
Apr 09 14:01:13 <ScaredyCat> Summer of Llamas ?
Apr 09 14:01:26 <summatusmentis> Sh** outta Luck
Apr 09 14:01:26 <abraxa_> summatusmentis: Yeah... let's hope. We'll get 2 slots at least
Apr 09 14:02:29 <summatusmentis> abraxa_: there are so many better applications then mine, I'm sure
Apr 09 14:02:45 <summatusmentis> I'm just tweaking, ignore me
Apr 09 14:03:00 <summatusmentis> and now class is over
Apr 09 14:03:14 <abraxa_> Don't doubt so much ;p
Apr 09 14:03:21 <summatusmentis> :)
Apr 09 14:04:13 <jadams_> ScaredyCat, timeout causes the partial sim read?
Apr 09 14:04:46 <Kronk> Hello OpenMoko world :)
Apr 09 14:05:00 <abraxa_> Hello Kronk
Apr 09 14:05:02 <SpeedEvil> Odd.
Apr 09 14:05:08 * SpeedEvil has lost his phone.
Apr 09 14:05:11 <ScaredyCat> mmm.. not sure yet jadams_
Apr 09 14:05:12 <SpeedEvil> I can see it on lsusb...
Apr 09 14:05:30 <SpeedEvil> Ah
Apr 09 14:09:08 <Kronk> Hey guys wondering if anyone might be able to help
Apr 09 14:09:31 <abraxa_> Kronk: Sure, what's up?
Apr 09 14:09:35 <Kronk> have an old firmware on my NEO 1973 and just want to update to a new stable one
Apr 09 14:09:49 <Kronk> Read up on the wiki but not sure if I should re-flash or update via ipkg ?
Apr 09 14:10:00 <Kronk> bit confusing some of the details on the wiki ?
Apr 09 14:10:13 <Kronk> running a Kubuntu 8.04 laptop
Apr 09 14:10:23 <Kronk> so not sure if dfu-util is working ok for that ?
Apr 09 14:10:37 <CM> Kronk: I'd say just flash a new image, usually works best :)
Apr 09 14:10:38 <Kronk> got it loaded but seems a little strange ?
Apr 09 14:10:47 <Kronk> coolies
Apr 09 14:10:51 <CM> There's some reviews in the wiki of different builds
Apr 09 14:10:52 <abraxa_> Personally I'd go for dfu-util as new images use opkg - ipkg is deprecated
Apr 09 14:11:05 <Kronk> what about getting rid of the old image ?
Apr 09 14:11:20 <abraxa_> Just flash it over :)
Apr 09 14:11:45 <Kronk> in the wiki it talks about size diffrences causing problems ? Is that out of date ?
Apr 09 14:12:30 <SpeedEvil> if you've updated uboot maybe
Apr 09 14:12:55 <abraxa_> Depends on your u-boot - no harm trying flashing without the "nand erase rootfs", though
Apr 09 14:13:05 <Kronk> nope origional uboot that shipped with my v4 :)
Apr 09 14:13:49 <Kronk> I could quite get my head around how I know I have the right partition to "nand erase rootfs" no debug board here ;)
Apr 09 14:14:26 <abraxa_> rootfs is an alias for the partition ID, so nothing to worry about there
Apr 09 14:14:37 <Kronk> coolies
Apr 09 14:14:40 <Kronk> ta :)
Apr 09 14:14:45 <abraxa_> You're welcome
Apr 09 14:14:47 <Kronk> I'll give it a bash thanx for the help
Apr 09 14:42:20 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Apr 09 14:42:39 * SpeedEvil seems to have screwed up forwarding when I upgraded, and I can't find it.
Apr 09 14:45:49 <ScaredyCat> can anyone remember the name of the project that allowed you to build flash gui's - backend is java and tomcat iirc
Apr 09 14:46:32 <zedstar_> thos u going to ucl tonight?
Apr 09 14:47:05 <summatusmentis> ScaredyCat: open source project?
Apr 09 14:47:11 <ScaredyCat> yes
Apr 09 14:47:19 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: Red5?
Apr 09 14:47:33 <thos> zedstar_, yup
Apr 09 14:47:40 <ScaredyCat> doesn't ring a bell - 
Apr 09 14:47:42 <thos> zedstar_, just putting together a demo app 
Apr 09 14:47:58 <thos> zedstar_, I can show LEDs, wireless and accellerometers working :-)
Apr 09 14:48:21 <zedstar_> thos ah cool.....not much point me bringing a Neo is there?
Apr 09 14:48:45 <thos> zedstar_, well, do you have anything cool on it? :-)
Apr 09 14:48:48 * Kronk holds his breath while his Neo updates !
Apr 09 14:49:07 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: OpenLaszlo?
Apr 09 14:49:19 <zedstar_> thos hmmm no porn no ;)
Apr 09 14:49:54 <zedstar_> thos gprs etc works tho
Apr 09 14:50:03 <ScaredyCat> abraxa_: that's the one
Apr 09 14:53:51 <summatusmentis> anyone know how many of the 2 GSoC projects last year were finished?
Apr 09 14:54:14 <summatusmentis> I assume, abraxa_, that you finished yours
Apr 09 14:54:53 <abraxa_> summatusmentis: Those you see of the 2007 run are all finished - the unfinished ones don't show up anymore :)
Apr 09 14:55:04 <abraxa_> We got 3 slots last year of which 2 finished
Apr 09 14:55:08 <Vegar> are there any plans for MMS support in OM?
Apr 09 14:55:26 <abraxa_> Vegar: Eventually, yes
Apr 09 14:55:43 <summatusmentis> abraxa_: oh, ok
Apr 09 14:56:19 <abraxa_> summatusmentis: The one that wasn't finished was "ad-hoc communication via BT/WiFi", fyi
Apr 09 14:56:48 <summatusmentis> there wasn't BT or wifi on any device last year
Apr 09 14:57:28 <abraxa_> Yeah but the BT and WiFi stacks are nothing special - the ad-hoc communication layer could've been developed on any linux device :)
Apr 09 14:58:55 <summatusmentis> that's true
Apr 09 14:59:04 <summatusmentis> ad-hoc wifi works already in linux, iirc
Apr 09 14:59:55 <mjr> Vegar, it's traditionally not been a high priority, though obviously desirable for interop
Apr 09 15:51:29 <summatusmentis> raster: according to my Data Structures prof, hash tables are faster than trees, if you care(for the keyboard)
Apr 09 15:53:57 <abraxa_> summatusmentis: For 100% correct matches, I assume - the tree is so you can have some fuzziness in the determination of the word, from what I understand
Apr 09 15:54:25 <summatusmentis> is fuzziness wanted?
Apr 09 15:54:53 <summatusmentis> would using a tree have 26^26 options?
Apr 09 15:55:10 <summatusmentis> wait, nvm
Apr 09 15:55:11 <Qwell> 27^max word len, no?
Apr 09 15:55:20 <Qwell> (up to, obviously)
Apr 09 15:55:34 <summatusmentis> Qwell: yeah, that's correct
Apr 09 15:55:50 <wurp2> summatusmentis: If you choose the size of the hashmap correctly, they are much faster for large datasets
Apr 09 15:55:52 <summatusmentis> but you'd need to parse the dictionary into letters, and store that somehow
Apr 09 15:56:01 <wurp2> If you don't, they can be much slower
Apr 09 15:56:06 <Qwell> of course, it's really just the length of the entire dict
Apr 09 15:56:13 <summatusmentis> wurp2: mm, that makes sense
Apr 09 15:56:42 <Qwell> wurp2: hash tables + locking makes for a really fun day
Apr 09 15:56:53 <wurp2> hashmap is O(1) to insert & remove, assuming no resizing, good hash function, and # of buckets is large enough
Apr 09 15:57:11 <summatusmentis> bucket == node?
Apr 09 15:57:26 <wurp2> Qwell: As long as you don't have to resize, you can just lock at the bucket level
Apr 09 15:57:53 <Qwell> wurp2: heh, depends on what you're doing with the object
Apr 09 15:57:56 <wurp2> bucket = the list of elements that have the same hashcode modulus
Apr 09 15:58:41 <summatusmentis> oh, alright.(we're not at hash tables yet, we're doing graphs now)
Apr 09 15:58:43 <wurp2> tree is O(log(n)), but as long as there's a well defined ordering on the objects, it doesn't have any other requirements
Apr 09 15:59:27 <wurp2> I think locking on a balanced tree would be even yuckier to do in an efficient way than locking a hashmap...
Apr 09 16:00:07 <unknown_lamer> it is easier if you use a purely functional structure
Apr 09 16:00:19 <Qwell> unknown_lamer: or a purely theoretical one!
Apr 09 16:00:21 <unknown_lamer> if you want 'destructive' updates you justh av to lock when replacing the head of the tree
Apr 09 16:00:33 <unknown_lamer> and they are not really that slow if you have an ok generational GC
Apr 09 16:00:42 <zedstar_> yeh surely it depends.... hash is supposed to give O(1) but depends a lot on implementation what that constant is
Apr 09 16:00:43 <unknown_lamer> not to mention much easier to implement
Apr 09 16:00:54 <zedstar> thos see u there
Apr 09 16:00:54 <wurp2> Honestly, unless you have trillions of elements, or thousands and a tight inner loop operating on the dictionary, you probably don't care if it's hash or tree
Apr 09 16:02:22 <unknown_lamer> For a dictionary you probably want some type of tree so you can easily find entries that are close in spelling
Apr 09 16:03:01 <unknown_lamer> for predictive text it is pretty easy, but correction is a bit more difficult to represent
Apr 09 16:03:33 <wurp2> There is a great little article on a somewhat brute-force correction method that performs just fine on modern machiens
Apr 09 16:03:37 <wurp2> s/iens/ines/
Apr 09 16:03:37 <apt> wurp2 meant: There is a great little article on a somewhat brute-force correction method that performs just fine on modern machines
Apr 09 16:03:53 <unknown_lamer> But brute-force is not elegant :-(
Apr 09 16:04:28 <wurp2> Who cares, if it performs well and is easy to understand?
Apr 09 16:04:31 <wurp2> http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html
Apr 09 16:04:54 <unknown_lamer> a mathematically elegant solution should also be easy to understand and perform well
Apr 09 16:05:13 <wurp2> I agree
Apr 09 16:05:41 <wurp2> But a solution in the hand is worth several thousand musings on more elegant ones ;-)
Apr 09 16:07:02 <unknown_lamer> There is literature on this available on citeseer
Apr 09 16:07:16 <unknown_lamer> so it has been solved reasonably someone just need to hack together an implementation
Apr 09 16:07:35 <Qwell> simple solution.  feed every word through google, and grep out the "Did you mean ... ?"
Apr 09 16:07:46 <wurp2> Cool, I hadn't heard of citeseer
Apr 09 16:07:52 <unknown_lamer> citeseer is mmmm
Apr 09 16:08:06 <wurp2> No, CiteSeer is currently unavailable.
Apr 09 16:08:08 <unknown_lamer> who needs to go to a university when you have it
Apr 09 16:08:08 <wurp2> :-(
Apr 09 16:08:26 <unknown_lamer> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/
Apr 09 16:08:38 <wurp2> KS mirror is not fast either
Apr 09 16:08:46 <wurp2> ah, yep, x is up
Apr 09 16:09:18 <Qwell> unknown_lamer: neat
Apr 09 16:09:23 <unknown_lamer> I didn't know about ^x until now it looks much nicer
Apr 09 16:10:12 <summatusmentis> mickey|gsoc08: ping
Apr 09 16:12:10 <wurp2> citeseer is very impressive.  This will waste tons of my time...
Apr 09 16:14:31 <abraxa_> wurp2: Depends on your definition of "waste". I'd agree that you can waste time on YouTube. But "wasting" time reading academic papers? Hmm... :)
Apr 09 16:15:31 <unknown_lamer> Oh nice citeseerx finally adds support for marking a bunch of metadata records and generating one bibtex file at the end
Apr 09 16:16:06 <zedstar_tube> cool
Apr 09 16:18:10 <zedstar_tube> on my way to have a play with thos's phone
Apr 09 16:18:54 <wurp2> abraxa_: Well, I spend time learning this crap that has only a marginal relationship to anything I do
Apr 09 16:18:57 <wurp2> ever
Apr 09 16:19:25 <wurp2> e.g. the common lisp stuff I'm reading now :-)
Apr 09 16:19:57 <unknown_lamer> hey if I get clisp working properly on eabi that might be useful
Apr 09 16:20:37 <abraxa_> wurp2: That's why we're nerds and the Good Girls (TM) like us so much
Apr 09 16:21:12 <zedstar_tube> wurp if u want a shell to play with on the neo u can install chicken
Apr 09 16:21:30 <wurp2> abraxa_: Yeah, I know.  I'm beating them off with a stick.
Apr 09 16:21:41 <wurp2> Hmm, that could be misinterpreted
Apr 09 16:21:45 <abraxa_> lmao
Apr 09 16:22:05 <wurp2> zedstar_tube: clisp shell?
Apr 09 16:22:11 <unknown_lamer> once you learn Common Lisp you'll only be attractive to /oh no emotional problems/
Apr 09 16:22:21 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: chicken is scheme
Apr 09 16:22:47 <zedstar_tube> wurp well scheme but is cool for unix stuff
Apr 09 16:22:53 <SpeedEvil> forth!
Apr 09 16:23:05 <zedstar_tube> a practical scheme
Apr 09 16:23:25 <unknown_lamer> guile should also run and has full gnome platform bindings along with most of POSIX and an implementation of scsh
Apr 09 16:23:36 <unknown_lamer> but is not nearly as fast as chicken
Apr 09 16:23:44 <zedstar_tube> yeh
Apr 09 16:23:51 <unknown_lamer> but is still faster than Python which I find amusing because the Scheme community makes fun of Guile for being abysmally slow
Apr 09 16:24:10 <unknown_lamer> It can also do fully preemptive threading unlike most other implementations
Apr 09 16:24:13 <zedstar_tube> plus ive packaged chicken already
Apr 09 16:24:38 <zedstar_tube> so install ipk and hack away
Apr 09 16:24:40 <unknown_lamer> I think there is a bitbake package for Guile lying around somewhere ISTR Neal Walfield or someone running it on the N800
Apr 09 16:24:46 <unknown_lamer> I should email him
Apr 09 16:24:54 <unknown_lamer> err, Neil Jerram
Apr 09 16:24:57 <unknown_lamer> Guile not Hurd oops
Apr 09 16:25:11 <unknown_lamer> damn people with phonetically identical names
Apr 09 16:25:21 <Kronk> Hey just out of interest has anyone loaded the April 04 "recommended" kernel and jffs2 rootfs images ?
Apr 09 16:25:48 <abraxa_> Kronk: Probably, or else it wouldn't be recommended :)  - do you have problems with it?
Apr 09 16:25:51 <wurp2> Kronk: I'm running them
Apr 09 16:25:56 <Kronk> hmm
Apr 09 16:26:37 <wurp2> zedstar_tube: My next language after clisp would probably be haskell
Apr 09 16:26:42 <Kronk> keeps bombing out when I load the jffs2 for 04 April ? Screen crashes out and I get dumped from DFU ?
Apr 09 16:27:11 <wurp2> Although I'm not sure the difference between scheme and clisp is enough to make a difference...
Apr 09 16:27:19 <Kronk> d/loaded it from the "recommended" link on the wiki
Apr 09 16:27:22 <wurp2> dfu-util is crashing during the rootfs load?
Apr 09 16:27:23 <zedstar_tube> does haskell compile to c ?
Apr 09 16:27:46 <wurp2> zedstar_tube: Hmm, no idea
Apr 09 16:27:51 <Kronk> yeah get's to what appears to be around 60 % then seems to crash ?
Apr 09 16:27:55 <wurp2> I just know it lends itself to smp really well
Apr 09 16:28:16 <wurp2> If you tell me the file sizes, I'll compare it to the ones I installed
Apr 09 16:28:40 <zedstar_tube> never tried haskell but is popular in uni also
Apr 09 16:28:47 <wurp2> Hmm, I lied
Apr 09 16:28:52 <wurp2> I'm running the 4/03 image
Apr 09 16:28:53 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: CL (the correct abbreviation; clisp refers to a specific implementation) is more suited for Real World work as the standard is large enough for portability between implementations, and there are unofficially standard libraries for networking, threading, FFI, etc.
Apr 09 16:28:58 <abraxa_> Kronk: I had that issue with dfu-util as well... it magically stopped after a few days (I rebooted the laptop several times during that period)
Apr 09 16:29:06 <Kronk> hmm
Apr 09 16:29:11 <Kronk> ok ta :)
Apr 09 16:29:18 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: so most people on x86 machines are using SBCL, but I can use the gtk binding and stuff targetted toward SBCL with clisp on ARM
Apr 09 16:30:18 <zedstar_tube> hmmm tunnel coming soon so there goes my gprs
Apr 09 16:30:51 <Kronk> Well I just loaded the latest qtopia image fine so I'm a bit sus on that file ? Mighta corrupted on d/load or something ?
Apr 09 16:30:58 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: Your Real World comments are the impression I had gotten from reading around.  That and the ready availability of a good free online manual for CL is why I'm learning it instead of Scheme :-)
Apr 09 16:31:32 <wurp2> Kronk: You might try the 4/03 image; from what I remember there was no real difference
Apr 09 16:31:41 <abraxa_> Kronk: Not sure. It suddenly worked for me without re-downloading my jffs image but can't harm to try )
Apr 09 16:31:51 <Kronk> nps thanks :)
Apr 09 16:32:03 <wurp2> Maybe you have something else on USB that is dirtying the signal?
Apr 09 16:32:19 <wurp2> Are you using a hub, or direct connection?
Apr 09 16:34:19 * Kronk crashes for the night cya :)
Apr 09 17:06:11 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4333 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: openmoko-panel-gsm: display GSM antenna power-up and power-down (Erin Yueh)
Apr 09 17:08:52 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4334 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/libmokogsmd/ (moko-gsmd-connection.c moko-gsmd-connection.h): libmokogsmd: add antenna status signal and remove unused code (Erin Yueh)
Apr 09 17:14:52 <wurp2> Is there any stated plan for the 'right' way to talk to the gsm, gps, bluetooth, etc?
Apr 09 17:15:15 <wurp2> I mean, I assume it's dbus, but I thought the interfaces that are there now are temporary
Apr 09 17:28:19 <abraxa_> wurp2: mickey|gsoc08 should be able to tell you more about that - my personal assumption is that there will be various D-Bus interfaces available, the freesmartphone.org one being one of them
Apr 09 17:28:52 <wurp2> But the one from freesmartphone.org isn't available now, I presume
Apr 09 17:29:13 <wurp2> I know it wasn't a few weeks ago when I walked the 01's dbus tree
Apr 09 17:29:30 <Sup3rkiddo> theres gsmd2
Apr 09 17:29:37 * Sup3rkiddo is browsing through gsmd2 code
Apr 09 17:29:40 <wurp2> (or, rather, it wasn't advertised on a path visible from the root of either Session or System bus)
Apr 09 17:29:41 <abraxa_> The stock OM image won't have freesmartphone stuff for a long time to come
Apr 09 17:29:51 <wurp2> abraxa_: :-(
Apr 09 17:29:57 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, y0
Apr 09 17:30:12 <abraxa_> emdete's underground image is a test bed for it
Apr 09 17:30:20 <wurp2> Sup3rkiddo: Is there a reason to prefer gsmd2 over libgsmd?
Apr 09 17:30:26 <wurp2> abraxa_: Cool, I didn't know that
Apr 09 17:30:34 <wurp2> Maybe I should play with the underground image
Apr 09 17:30:43 <wurp2> Doing system-wide stuff seems much more accessible there
Apr 09 17:30:46 <Sup3rkiddo> wurp2, i liked libgsmd but it doesn handle asynchrounous stuff
Apr 09 17:30:50 <Sup3rkiddo> properly
Apr 09 17:30:59 <wurp2> And I would love to see a totally different UI on the neo
Apr 09 17:31:02 <abraxa_> You should - though things are still in flux and the image mickey made some weeks ago is outdated already
Apr 09 17:31:24 <wurp2> Sup3rkiddo: Ah, good point.  Thanks!
Apr 09 17:31:48 <Sup3rkiddo> wurp2, like when you receive a message, telling other apps that a message has been receive is dodgy
Apr 09 17:32:09 <Sup3rkiddo> so something adhering to fso should remove that..thats the ultimate go,
Apr 09 17:32:12 <Sup3rkiddo> afaik
Apr 09 17:32:25 <Sup3rkiddo> s/receive/received
Apr 09 17:32:28 <wurp2> I'm fuzzy on the relationship of freesmartphone to OM.  It seems it's a totally different infrastructure, but one that's being done by an OM employee
Apr 09 17:33:06 <wurp2> And one which seems to be planned as a replacement for parts of OM
Apr 09 17:33:26 <Sup3rkiddo> unified thingy is good even if it takes time imo
Apr 09 17:33:57 <Sup3rkiddo> i learnt a lot about programming with libgsmd, so i always liked it
Apr 09 17:34:54 <abraxa_> wurp2: mickey does lead fsp.org, yes, and it aims to remedy the problems with all the other mobile phone stacks/standards - OM will be the first real-world implementation of it but that'll be a while as middleware is first and GUI comes last
Apr 09 17:35:52 <Sup3rkiddo> btw, speaking of fso, anyone got gsm2 working along with phonesim>
Apr 09 17:37:52 <abraxa_> Sup3rkiddo: No idea
Apr 09 17:38:19 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, seems like a good little task to keep me busy
Apr 09 17:38:47 <abraxa_> hehe
Apr 09 17:39:16 <abraxa_> Or you could do something *really* useful and help Stefan & Co with networkmanager
Apr 09 17:40:20 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, i dont have a device atm...=/
Apr 09 17:40:46 <abraxa_> Oh..,
Apr 09 17:41:26 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, one of the research organisations bought it and i used to borrow it for a while..but thats about it..
Apr 09 17:41:32 <Sup3rkiddo> MichaelShiloh, y0
Apr 09 17:41:58 <abraxa_> Sup3rkiddo: Boo... that's sucky =(
Apr 09 17:42:38 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, btw, is your app still marked "Ranking in progress"?
Apr 09 17:43:20 <abraxa_> Yeah, all of them
Apr 09 17:44:46 <Sup3rkiddo> all? you applied all 20?
Apr 09 17:44:49 <Sup3rkiddo> bleh
Apr 09 17:45:22 <abraxa_> lol no
Apr 09 17:45:33 <abraxa_> Just 4 to hopefully increase the number of slots we get
Apr 09 17:45:47 <Sup3rkiddo> me just did 2!
Apr 09 17:45:53 <Sup3rkiddo> and one for OM
Apr 09 17:45:58 <Sup3rkiddo> and the other for 
Apr 09 17:45:59 <Sup3rkiddo> e
Apr 09 17:46:05 <abraxa_> Ohh nice!
Apr 09 17:46:17 <abraxa_> Hope you get one :)
Apr 09 17:46:28 <Sup3rkiddo> gee..thanks
Apr 09 17:46:50 <abraxa_> Gee?
Apr 09 17:47:02 <Sup3rkiddo> my dad bought me new machine i have to cover up..i will be screwed big time if i don't get any
Apr 09 17:47:22 <Sup3rkiddo> that came out wrong..nm
Apr 09 17:47:47 <abraxa_> Oh :(
Apr 09 17:47:55 * Sup3rkiddo has limited volacuberry
Apr 09 17:49:13 <abraxa_> *shrugs*... I think you're doing just fine
Apr 09 17:58:06 <yoyo> pleas upload "sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz" file
Apr 09 18:03:47 <wurp2> yoyo: That didn't make any sense... you would need to specify who you're talking to, where that file is located, where you want it uploaded...
Apr 09 18:05:05 <abraxa_> wurp2: I assume he's trying to build something and it's failing downloading the file from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/sources/
Apr 09 18:05:35 <wurp2> ah
Apr 09 18:05:40 <wurp2> join the club :-/
Apr 09 18:06:09 <yoyo> wurp2: the file shood by in "http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz"
Apr 09 18:06:39 <yoyo> wurp2: it's need to build kernel in present makemoko
Apr 09 18:06:52 <wurp2> yoyo: I see.  I don't have the file or access, nor do I know who is responsible for maintaining that
Apr 09 18:07:11 <wurp2> yoyo: People have download problems in mokomake all the time :-(
Apr 09 18:07:59 * Sup3rkiddo had problems with git a couple of hours back
Apr 09 18:08:14 <yoyo> wurp2: shout I report it as a bug?
Apr 09 18:10:28 <wurp2> yoyo: I'm not sure.  I've always been told to try the build again later :-(
Apr 09 18:10:47 <wurp2> Maybe reporting it as a bug enough times would make someone fix the root problem
Apr 09 18:11:11 <yoyo> wurp2: I'm waiting about 3 days
Apr 09 18:11:13 <wurp2> We really have a big problem with build process
Apr 09 18:11:17 <wurp2> yoyo: Ouch!
Apr 09 18:11:27 <mickey|gsoc08> downloads.openmoko.org is not supposed to have these files
Apr 09 18:11:40 <mickey|gsoc08> the reason why bitbake tries to get them from there is source mirroring
Apr 09 18:11:50 <wurp2> It shouldn't be hard to keep a label pointed at the latest good build and have a totally automated build that works 99% of the time
Apr 09 18:11:53 <mickey|gsoc08> if they're not present, bitbake attempts to get them from upstream
Apr 09 18:12:19 <mickey|gsoc08> fwiw, the openmoko branch should be reasonably stable as opposed to org.openembedded.dev
Apr 09 18:12:41 <wurp2> If someone with access to create labels in the repository would build an automated system to build & label when it works, & send email to whatever mailing list when it doesn't, it would solve the problem once & for all, I think
Apr 09 18:22:23 <Sup3rkiddo> i guess yoyo was referring to this? http://pastebin.ca/978630
Apr 09 18:22:34 <Sup3rkiddo> been getting that for some time now
Apr 09 18:23:10 <yoyo> Sup3rkiddo: correct !
Apr 09 18:23:16 <mickeyl> try w/ bitbake 1.8.x HEAD
Apr 09 18:23:33 <mickeyl> i'm surprised that it wants to use the git kernel
Apr 09 18:23:48 <mickeyl> but anyways, using bitbake 1.8.x head may help
Apr 09 18:23:54 <mickeyl> since there were git fetcher changes
Apr 09 18:24:01 <mickeyl> which did not land in a release yet
Apr 09 18:24:41 <mickeyl> sorry 'bout that but the Om guys are pretty overworked due to freerunner MP
Apr 09 18:24:48 <mickeyl> i hope it's going to calm down soon
Apr 09 18:25:39 <Sup3rkiddo> :D, we understand....
Apr 09 18:26:04 <mickeyl> there's a shitload of stuff going on in parallel atm.
Apr 09 18:26:11 <mickeyl> it's going to fall into place 
Apr 09 18:26:21 <mickeyl> i should blog about that
Apr 09 18:26:42 <alphaone> mickeyl: Don't disclose confidential information again ;-)
Apr 09 18:26:51 <mickeyl> *cough*
Apr 09 18:26:55 * mickeyl whistles innocently
Apr 09 18:27:24 <abraxa_> alphaone: Well, if the management doesn't say what's up...
Apr 09 18:27:50 <wurp2> mickeyl: MP?
Apr 09 18:27:59 <SpeedEvil> Multiprocessor.
Apr 09 18:28:05 <mickeyl> mass production
Apr 09 18:28:05 <Sup3rkiddo> ooo
Apr 09 18:28:26 <SpeedEvil> Technically - it does have 3.
Apr 09 18:28:29 <SpeedEvil> Or 4.
Apr 09 18:28:33 <SpeedEvil> 5 even.
Apr 09 18:28:36 <mickeyl> heh
Apr 09 18:28:37 <SpeedEvil> 6 maybe.
Apr 09 18:28:37 <mickeyl> lets count
Apr 09 18:28:40 <mickeyl> 1. SoC
Apr 09 18:28:44 <mickeyl> 2. GSM
Apr 09 18:28:47 <mickeyl> 3. GPS
Apr 09 18:28:50 <mickeyl> 4. WiFi
Apr 09 18:28:52 <mickeyl> what else?
Apr 09 18:28:54 <SpeedEvil> 2.1 GSM
Apr 09 18:29:04 <SpeedEvil> It's got a DSP, and an arm seperate
Apr 09 18:29:04 <yoyo> where is bt ?
Apr 09 18:29:06 <Sup3rkiddo> GPRS?
Apr 09 18:29:09 <SpeedEvil> BT too, yes
Apr 09 18:29:20 <mickeyl> right, bt might have a core too
Apr 09 18:29:22 <SpeedEvil> No - the GSM/GPRS is in one chip
Apr 09 18:29:23 <abraxa_> The accelerometers?
Apr 09 18:29:25 <SpeedEvil> no
Apr 09 18:29:28 <SpeedEvil> they are dumb
Apr 09 18:29:30 <abraxa_> okay
Apr 09 18:29:31 <mickeyl> so we got 6 cores
Apr 09 18:29:32 <mickeyl> amazing
Apr 09 18:29:33 <Sup3rkiddo> nethack?
Apr 09 18:29:41 <Sup3rkiddo> what
Apr 09 18:29:44 <SpeedEvil> MichaelShiloh: I'm unsure about the glamo.
Apr 09 18:29:48 <SpeedEvil> mick:
Apr 09 18:29:52 <mickeyl> ooh, yeah
Apr 09 18:30:00 <mickeyl> glamo has some dsp thing as well
Apr 09 18:30:03 <yoyo> open source is cool :) little editing and wee :) no problem with git :)
Apr 09 18:30:03 <mickeyl> 7 then
Apr 09 18:30:10 <mickeyl> yoyo: what did you do?
Apr 09 18:30:16 <wurp2> You guys need to provide an instruction set agnostic interface to your cpu cluster
Apr 09 18:30:45 <wurp2> That's a lot of mips that could be going towards, uh, something
Apr 09 18:30:47 <Sup3rkiddo> yoyo, what did you do?
Apr 09 18:30:48 <SpeedEvil> The sound chip has so many mixers, it must be damn near sentient as an analog computer.
Apr 09 18:31:13 <unknown_lamer> I hope they at least replaced the 1uF capacitor with a 3uF
Apr 09 18:31:22 <unknown_lamer> I'd be sad if the sound out of the headphone utterly sucked :-(
Apr 09 18:31:30 <unknown_lamer> my ancient neuros finally died I need a replacement
Apr 09 18:31:34 <yoyo> mickeyl: Sup3rkiddo: I'm edit bb file to not search a git file on server. real dirty style ;P
Apr 09 18:31:48 <mickeyl> yoyo: :)
Apr 09 18:31:56 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, y0
Apr 09 18:32:01 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: I am unrefined.  The '01 sound does me just fine for a media player
Apr 09 18:32:27 <summatusmentis> hi Sup3rkiddo 
Apr 09 18:32:34 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: power metal requires the low end lest the raging drums be lost in a sea of hollow power chords
Apr 09 18:32:54 <Sup3rkiddo> night all
Apr 09 18:32:56 <wurp2> yeah, I can usually make it through the day without listening to power metal
Apr 09 18:34:21 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: Also - the SIM. In some cases this may even have java crap in it.
Apr 09 18:35:15 <yoyo> how many people use console to debug kernel using ttySAC0 it shoot by disable by default.
Apr 09 18:35:27 <wurp2> Java runs *on the SIM*?
Apr 09 18:35:37 <SpeedEvil> It can - in some cases.
Apr 09 18:35:49 <SpeedEvil> It's not your average java of course.
Apr 09 18:36:28 <wurp2> I have a Java ring at home from a few years ago, but it's still a few orders of magnitude bigger than a SIM...
Apr 09 18:36:31 <abraxa_> Good night, Sup3rkiddo 
Apr 09 18:36:40 <SpeedEvil> http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Sept2003/5817.htm
Apr 09 18:37:35 <SpeedEvil> Launch of a java SIM in 2003
Apr 09 18:37:50 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: wow
Apr 09 18:38:39 <SpeedEvil> java ring?
Apr 09 18:38:48 <wurp2> Yeah
Apr 09 18:39:29 <SpeedEvil> Oh - right.
Apr 09 18:39:32 <SpeedEvil> That's near.
Apr 09 18:39:33 <wurp2> The Sun guys gave it to the Magicosm team members as a thank you when they showed us at GDC2001
Apr 09 18:39:44 <SpeedEvil> http://www.useit.com/papers/javaring.html
Apr 09 18:39:47 <wurp2> I guess that's more than a few years ago now
Apr 09 18:39:48 <pwgen_1> hello
Apr 09 18:40:26 <wurp2> Yeah, that's the one
Apr 09 18:40:59 <SpeedEvil> Does it have a display?
Apr 09 18:41:16 <SpeedEvil> Oh - is that just a 1-wire java button?
Apr 09 18:41:59 <wurp2> Yep
Apr 09 18:42:16 <wurp2> You have to have a plug to stick it in for it to interact with the outside world in any way
Apr 09 18:42:30 <wurp2> The only really cool thing about it is the embedded public/private key
Apr 09 18:42:58 <wurp2> w/ the private key being totally inaccessible except through an api, if I remember correctly
Apr 09 18:43:13 <SpeedEvil> http://www.stm32circle.com/hom/index.php
Apr 09 18:43:26 <SpeedEvil> fun dev kit - not quite as small
Apr 09 18:44:23 <wurp2> verey cool, but I don't see any size references
Apr 09 18:44:24 <mmontour> wurp2: I have one of the newer crypto iButtons on my keychain.
Apr 09 18:44:29 <wurp2> s/verey/very/
Apr 09 18:44:29 <apt> wurp2 meant: very cool, but I don't see any size references
Apr 09 18:44:41 <wurp2> mmontour: I haven't seen those
Apr 09 18:44:54 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: it's about 50mm diameter
Apr 09 18:45:14 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: Are you sure that isn't as small?
Apr 09 18:45:15 <SpeedEvil> http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Integrated+Circuits&tier3=ST+Microcontrollers&tier4=STM32+Primer&moduleno=80672&catRef=73-4508 is a  better picture
Apr 09 18:45:46 <summatusmentis> mmontour: what is it?
Apr 09 18:45:57 <SpeedEvil> Not the hover-over zoom
Apr 09 18:46:03 <SpeedEvil> note
Apr 09 18:47:49 <wurp2> That stm32 is pretty darn cool
Apr 09 18:48:05 <wurp2> I don't see notes about cpu speed or storage
Apr 09 18:48:12 <mmontour> http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ for general info on iButtons. The crypto one (now discontinued) is a small CPU that runs Java, has 134K of NVRAM, and has an RSA coprocessor
Apr 09 18:48:17 <SpeedEvil> 70M/130K/20K or so 
Apr 09 18:48:33 <wurp2> enough to do lots of interesting things
Apr 09 18:48:42 <wurp2> mmontour: thx
Apr 09 18:48:55 <quicksand> I have been unable to fetch openmoko-alsa-scenarios, of all things, via SVN - and that's what is killing my build today.
Apr 09 18:49:01 <SpeedEvil> It's embedded - it's $3 in quantity. /me is currently designing stuff with ti.
Apr 09 18:49:10 <quicksand> I wonder whether upgrading my bitbake to bleeding edge will fix that too
Apr 09 18:49:49 <wurp2> mmontour: Is that the same thing as the java button I saw 8 years ago or so?
Apr 09 18:50:23 <SpeedEvil> Was it in a stainless steel can, about 7mm thick and 20mm dia?
Apr 09 18:50:25 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: the stm32 is $3 in quantity?  The page you linked to said $25 per, I thought.  $3 per in quantity is quite a jump
Apr 09 18:50:53 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: "<lh> slot counts posted to the mentors list" from #gsoc
Apr 09 18:50:56 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: I never saw one open.  It was about twice that diameter, though, I think
Apr 09 18:50:58 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: Oh - no. That's an entire dev-thingy. And it's 25 pounds. triaxial accel, LCD, batteries, joystick.
Apr 09 18:51:12 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: not just the chip.
Apr 09 18:51:16 <wurp2> Oh, I see
Apr 09 18:51:24 <wurp2> I thought stm32 referred to the dev thingy
Apr 09 18:51:34 <SpeedEvil> wurp2: no - that's the name of the chip family.
Apr 09 18:51:50 <wurp2> The accelerometer, memory, chip package was what sounded interesting to me
Apr 09 18:52:38 <mmontour> wurp2: Yes, it's an upgraded version of the Java Ring but in a standard iButon package.
Apr 09 18:55:28 <ccfly> hello :)
Apr 09 18:59:36 <wurp2> ccfly: hi
Apr 09 19:06:18 <ScaredyCat> CM: 599 votes
Apr 09 19:07:58 <xcasex> for?
Apr 09 19:08:18 <summatusmentis> 3g I assume
Apr 09 19:08:25 <summatusmentis> or, the 3g poll
Apr 09 19:08:55 <SpeedEvil> I want satellite + moonbounce.
Apr 09 19:09:08 <summatusmentis> satellite connection?
Apr 09 19:09:10 <summatusmentis> they blow
Apr 09 19:09:20 <cb22> get a leo sat
Apr 09 19:09:26 <cb22> less latency
Apr 09 19:10:21 <ScaredyCat> xcasex: me?
Apr 09 19:10:44 <cb22> 599 people think ScaredyCat  kills kittens
Apr 09 19:17:04 <ScaredyCat> ~blame cb22
Apr 09 19:17:05 * apt blames cb22 (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
Apr 09 19:18:33 <wurp2> I prefer communication by using hot air balloons as relay stations
Apr 09 19:18:46 <pwgen_1> does anyone managed a sleep resume cycle with the gta01 hardware ( without rebooting )
Apr 09 19:18:57 <wurp2> pwgen_1: Someone has, yes
Apr 09 19:19:01 <wurp2> But not with a recent release
Apr 09 19:19:17 <wurp2> It sometimes works rebooting from power with a recent release, but not reliably
Apr 09 19:19:24 <wurp2> s/reboot/resum/
Apr 09 19:19:25 <apt> wurp2 meant: It sometimes works resuming from power with a recent release, but not reliably
Apr 09 19:21:16 <ScaredyCat> http://www.engadget.com/photos/van-der-leds-wm2-cellphone-is-slayer-approved/742402/
Apr 09 19:23:59 <pwgen_1> it this a problem relatet to kernel , bootloader, system, or all of them 
Apr 09 19:24:05 <pwgen_1> i use an sharp c-3200 and sleep/resume works fine for c1000/3200 with an 2.4.18 kernel
Apr 09 19:24:09 <pwgen_1> i wonder that there are so big probs with the moko
Apr 09 19:25:44 <wurp2> Does anyone know how FIC came to the decision to put the micro sd slot behind the sim slot, with both behind the battery?
Apr 09 19:26:23 <wurp2> Could they just not figure out another way to fit it all in?
Apr 09 19:29:25 <SpeedEvil> Packing is a _horrible_ problem i phones.
Apr 09 19:30:27 <pwgen_1> *FG* 
Apr 09 19:30:54 <SpeedEvil> in
Apr 09 19:32:40 <quicksand> pwgen_1: it's related primarily to bringing all of the peripherals into the appropriate state upon resume.
Apr 09 19:32:46 <quicksand> Suspend is easy; resume is hard.
Apr 09 19:33:29 <quicksand> And to make resume happen quickly upon certain hardware interrupts (e.g. incoming phone call), that's even harder.
Apr 09 19:41:18 <SpeedEvil> At one point it was almost working
Apr 09 19:42:16 <Sonicadvance> hmm
Apr 09 19:43:44 <I-MOD> has the possibility of a kinetic battery pack been brought up? not to say it should launch with the freerunner, but as an aftermarket addon, it could add _SIGNIFICANT_ amounts to standby time and maybe even to talk time depending on how much you move around.  I have a kinetic watch that works perfectly, but the amount of power it uses is miniscule compared to that of a phone or a pda.  another possibility might be an entire backplate+batt
Apr 09 19:45:12 <SpeedEvil> it works well for watches
Apr 09 19:45:45 <SpeedEvil> they need maybe a hundred thousandth of what a phone does
Apr 09 19:45:55 <I-MOD> like i said, miniscule
Apr 09 19:47:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1332 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info
Apr 09 19:47:02 <cdbot2> * * (null) contact is sometimes saved
Apr 09 19:47:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1332
Apr 09 19:48:35 <pwgen_1> quicksand: is the gsm able to do periodical interrupts   to implement someting like alarms 
Apr 09 19:49:09 <SpeedEvil> The RTC chip can
Apr 09 19:55:49 <wurp2> I-MOD: why do you think it would add significant amounts to standby time if it produces a miniscule amount of the power needed to run a phone?
Apr 09 19:57:31 <Jiten_> wurp2: well, if you make a larger one, it should be able to make more power :P
Apr 09 19:58:06 <Jiten_> think about it, charging your phone by waving it around ... ok, maybe not such a good idea :P
Apr 09 20:04:50 <wurp2> Hrm - if I looked up the figures correctly & didn't make some basic math error, you have to lift 45 kg 30 meters to recharge a 3750 mWh battery
Apr 09 20:04:59 <SpeedEvil> About that.
Apr 09 20:05:30 <I-MOD> wurp2, standby also takes a relatively low amount of power, I just haven't had time to find a kinetic charger or its specs and compare the two
Apr 09 20:05:30 <wurp2> one watt-hour = 3600 joules
Apr 09 20:05:40 <SpeedEvil> 1.2Ah * 3.6V = 4Wh = 15000J
Apr 09 20:06:06 <SpeedEvil> That's 45Kg to 33m or so
Apr 09 20:07:17 <wurp2> To increase 150 hour standby time by 10%, you would have to lift 45 kg 3 meters every 6 days or thereabouts
Apr 09 20:07:32 <Sonicadvance> o.O
Apr 09 20:07:33 <I-MOD> and I wasn't expecting it to keep the battery charged forever
Apr 09 20:07:33 <wurp2> 7.5 kg 3 meters every day
Apr 09 20:08:06 <wurp2> or 1 kg 3 meters every hour for 8 hours a day
Apr 09 20:08:22 <wurp2> it seems too much, especially for a 10% increase in a 6 day standby time
Apr 09 20:08:27 <Sonicadvance> that,s not hard, just every hour throw the phone in the air and catch it xD
Apr 09 20:08:44 <SpeedEvil> You need to raise the phone by 7500m to charge it.
Apr 09 20:08:44 <wurp2> It's a good idea, you just have to do the math to see whether or not it's a *feasible* idea
Apr 09 20:08:57 <Sonicadvance> Throw it in the air...far
Apr 09 20:08:58 <SpeedEvil> So that's 100 throws to 7.5m
Apr 09 20:09:01 <I-MOD> in the case of something this small, it's only 1 or 2 grams which translates to more times a day or longer movement
Apr 09 20:09:04 <Sonicadvance> :D
Apr 09 20:09:21 <SpeedEvil> I-MOD: now compute 1 or 2 grams * a delta-vee of 10cm/s or so
Apr 09 20:09:28 <SpeedEvil> I-MOD: it's a damn small power.
Apr 09 20:10:27 <ccfly> well you could mount neo on a small hydrogen powered rocket such as .... Delta V ? :>
Apr 09 20:10:42 <Sonicadvance> hehe
Apr 09 20:11:17 <I-MOD> not unless you rip off one of its control surfaces and watch it spin
Apr 09 20:13:38 <Jiten_> even if it's a lot of work to intentionally recharge it fully with the kinetic pack, it's useful alternative way of charging it if you really need some juice on it and can't use a charger :)
Apr 09 20:14:41 <edistar_> how many mW do you get shaking for 1h?
Apr 09 20:14:56 <SpeedEvil> It depends.
Apr 09 20:15:03 <SpeedEvil> It's not really trivial to compute.
Apr 09 20:15:32 <SpeedEvil> the inputs are the weight of the free mass. The stroke of the mass.,
Apr 09 20:15:56 <SpeedEvil> In practice.
Apr 09 20:16:37 <SpeedEvil> If you're intentionally shaking it - unless the free mass is a sizable fraction of the mass of your arm, you get a _very_ inefficient transfer of energy.
Apr 09 20:17:33 <edistar_> ok
Apr 09 20:18:07 <SpeedEvil> Something with a little winder handle can be 80% efficient without too much problems.
Apr 09 20:18:19 <SpeedEvil> shaking may be lucky to get to 1%
Apr 09 20:18:41 <edistar_> you could tie it on a string and swing it;)
Apr 09 20:19:03 <SpeedEvil> That doesn't actually help.
Apr 09 20:19:14 <Jiten_> you mean tying the string somewhere and just making sure it's moving?
Apr 09 20:19:23 <edistar_> ok, bad luck
Apr 09 20:19:24 <SpeedEvil> You need a mass which moves with respect to the structure.
Apr 09 20:19:36 <SpeedEvil> And for some sort of generator between the two.
Apr 09 20:22:00 <wurp2> Jiten_: I think the numbers show that it's not really useful at all - if you want an emergency recharger, get a hand crank or (preferably) foot pedal device, and even then it's going to be a LOT of work
Apr 09 20:22:22 <SpeedEvil> Actually - it's not that bad.
Apr 09 20:22:44 <SpeedEvil> There are sorts of batteries that can be charged in 5 min or so.
Apr 09 20:23:04 <edistar_> goldcaps too:>
Apr 09 20:23:12 <SpeedEvil> no - those are low energy
Apr 09 20:23:44 <SpeedEvil> But 40W for 7 minutes isn't really a large amount of exertion.
Apr 09 20:24:05 <raster> summatusmentis: i dont need to do exact matches only. i need to do "what word STARTS with "and..." for example
Apr 09 20:24:21 <raster> a tree lets me know that a word exists that starts with "and..."
Apr 09 20:24:36 <raster> its the entire sub tree down the "a->n->d" branch
Apr 09 20:24:44 <SpeedEvil> That's equivanlt to a 120Kg person climbing up a 10cm step every 3s.
Apr 09 20:24:54 <raster> (i really just need to know that 1 or more matches exist - i don't need them all)
Apr 09 20:25:02 <wurp2> If you weight 90 kg, you need to raise yourself 15 meters to recharge - that's 75 times of stepping on a footpedal that's 2 decimeters off the ground
Apr 09 20:25:11 <wurp2> not too bad, but still a lot of work
Apr 09 20:25:46 <SpeedEvil> 45W is _not_ a lot of work
Apr 09 20:26:00 <SpeedEvil> It is time consuming though.
Apr 09 20:26:03 <wurp2> raster: You want that, with spelling errors?
Apr 09 20:26:20 <wurp2> I mean, including items that have errors in them?
Apr 09 20:27:21 <wurp2> If you allow 2 miskeys, after 2 letters you can't restrict the 'wordspace' at all
Apr 09 20:27:41 <wurp2> after 3 characters it should match every word that has one letter in the same place as the three letters typed so far
Apr 09 20:27:47 * mjr wants one of them xo pull-cord things once the manufacturer has to spare to us outsiders
Apr 09 20:27:48 <wurp2> which seems like a lot
Apr 09 20:28:14 <SpeedEvil> pull-cord is a good solution.
Apr 09 20:28:16 <raster> wurp2: for each key u press i have a list of N possible keys you may have intended to press
Apr 09 20:28:30 <raster> from closest to your press point to furthest
Apr 09 20:28:30 <wurp2> ah, so you assume no misspellings, only typos?
Apr 09 20:28:35 <SpeedEvil> raster: and the 'diddn't mean to press any key'
Apr 09 20:28:37 <mjr> Would work well together with my xo too. :ö
Apr 09 20:28:38 <raster> yes
Apr 09 20:28:42 <mjr> :)
Apr 09 20:28:43 <wurp2> that's not nearly as bad
Apr 09 20:28:44 <raster> i assume u just cant hit the right key
Apr 09 20:28:59 <wurp2> except that it assumes users have perfect spelling :-)
Apr 09 20:29:08 <raster> (all the time)
Apr 09 20:29:20 <raster> and you intend to type a full word that is in the dictionary
Apr 09 20:29:31 <raster> and yes- it assumes u can spell
Apr 09 20:29:48 <raster> i.e - you intend to write a word that is in the dictionary
Apr 09 20:30:03 <raster> right now it just corrects to the most probable match
Apr 09 20:30:10 <raster> i have no english word usage frequ3ency map
Apr 09 20:30:18 <wurp2> it sounds very nice anyway - I know the change that lists predictive phone #s you might be calling in the dialer is a big boon to me
Apr 09 20:30:19 <raster> so i dont know if "dear" is more common than "fest"
Apr 09 20:30:22 <raster> so its not great
Apr 09 20:30:27 <SpeedEvil> raster: usenet
Apr 09 20:30:33 <raster> BUT
Apr 09 20:30:34 <wurp2> I almost never type more than 2 or 3 clicks once the dialer is up
Apr 09 20:30:44 <SpeedEvil> raster: Or I have a few meg of IRC logs :)
Apr 09 20:30:56 <raster> i need to add a "list the top 10 or so corrections"
Apr 09 20:31:00 <raster> so u can choose fromt he corrections
Apr 09 20:31:04 <wurp2> Or you can use Gutenberg, etc.
Apr 09 20:31:12 <raster> ione of those in the list will be the thnig u typed without correction at all
Apr 09 20:31:17 <raster> so if u really want to mis-spell
Apr 09 20:31:18 <Qwell> wurp2: "thee"
Apr 09 20:31:21 <raster> or enter a word thats not in the dict
Apr 09 20:31:29 <Qwell> I don't want it to correct "teh" with "thee" :p
Apr 09 20:31:31 <raster> then it is there as an option
Apr 09 20:31:32 <wurp2> Qwell: Yeah, you have to be choosy about which texts
Apr 09 20:31:39 <raster> selecting it should add to the dict :)
Apr 09 20:31:54 <SpeedEvil> There are sites with gigabytes of text out there.
Apr 09 20:32:04 <raster> wurp2: qtopia snarfs about 10mb of gutenburg text to build a freq map
Apr 09 20:32:05 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, being the internet, they are all porn.
Apr 09 20:32:13 <raster> i just havent built one/got one yet
Apr 09 20:32:24 <raster> but i do know that i should do it
Apr 09 20:32:50 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: Heh, you type 'co' and the #1 word to complete it is 'cock'
Apr 09 20:33:34 <SpeedEvil> Could be an amusing 'joke' dictionary to load for someone.
Apr 09 20:35:15 <edistar_> or a shakespeare one:)
Apr 09 20:35:20 <raster> i need to know something starts with "co"
Apr 09 20:35:31 <raster> but i only list words that are complete matches
Apr 09 20:35:34 <raster> ie - 2 letter words
Apr 09 20:35:45 <raster> u have to type the whole word
Apr 09 20:36:58 <edistar_> so you search for 2-letter words starting with 'co'? ;)
Apr 09 20:39:00 <cb22> so, anyone know what the preliminary slot count for gsoc is?
Apr 09 20:39:14 <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall someone said 70
Apr 09 20:39:15 <cb22> ie, how many cool new features are we getting :p
Apr 09 20:39:20 <raster> edistar_: in the end i only list 2 letter words
Apr 09 20:39:26 <SpeedEvil> raster: coagulate!
Apr 09 20:39:43 <raster> but i need ti know while walking the tree that there are more possible matches down that branch
Apr 09 20:39:47 <raster> it saves a full search
Apr 09 20:39:49 <cb22> SpeedEvil, i mean slots, not applicants who wanted to do the accelerometer :p
Apr 09 20:40:02 <raster> so irfu entered 3 letters
Apr 09 20:40:07 <raster> cpl
Apr 09 20:40:13 <raster> i start with c 
Apr 09 20:40:20 <raster> yes - lots of things sytart with c - a valid sub-tree
Apr 09 20:40:28 * SpeedEvil sees why raster needs an error tollerant keyboard.
Apr 09 20:40:30 <raster> sp - nothng matches. throw away search down that tree branch
Apr 09 20:41:02 <raster> SpeedEvil: :-P
Apr 09 20:41:18 <cb22> s/tollerant/tolerant/
Apr 09 20:41:48 <cb22> :p
Apr 09 20:41:58 <summatusmentis> wtf?!? why am I deleting 300k things securely?
Apr 09 20:42:02 <summatusmentis> OS X is weird
Apr 09 20:43:04 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: 70 slots for OM? what?
Apr 09 20:43:29 <macdonalder> 70 appications for openmoko in total maybe was the intended meaning?
Apr 09 20:43:45 <cb22> 62 to be precise
Apr 09 20:43:50 <macdonalder> well there :D
Apr 09 20:43:53 <summatusmentis> that makes more sense
Apr 09 20:44:10 <cb22> summatusmentis, you have a 1 in 62 chance :p
Apr 09 20:44:22 <summatusmentis> cb22: yeah :-/ probably not getting it
Apr 09 20:44:39 <cb22> dont worry - 17 people chose the accelerometer ideas
Apr 09 20:44:39 <macdonalder> cb22: openmoko was only assigned one slot? :S
Apr 09 20:44:48 <summatusmentis> but 13 of them was accelerometer
Apr 09 20:44:52 <cb22> and only 1 will probably get it, so - 17 already
Apr 09 20:44:55 <summatusmentis> macdonalder: minimum was 2
Apr 09 20:45:04 <macdonalder> ahh
Apr 09 20:45:16 <summatusmentis> cb22: according to list, 13 for accelerometer
Apr 09 20:45:25 <summatusmentis> 57 unique people
Apr 09 20:45:28 <cb22> my bad then, cant count!
Apr 09 20:45:48 <summatusmentis> so. presumably I can remove 12 from 57(45
Apr 09 20:46:09 <summatusmentis> and then, based on however many slots OM gets, it could be a 3 or 4 in 45 chance
Apr 09 20:46:14 <Qwell> he can do math.  I vote for him.
Apr 09 20:46:20 <macdonalder> heh
Apr 09 20:46:50 <cb22> and he hangs out in the irc channel too :)
Apr 09 20:46:58 <cb22> some noddy points there
Apr 09 20:47:08 <macdonalder> roll me with the bunch who put in an application for handling the accelerometers
Apr 09 20:47:28 * SpeedEvil rolls macdonalder at 1.37G.
Apr 09 20:47:37 <summatusmentis> and then there's the bottle of Dom Perignon that I sent to mickey|zzZZzz, so i've really probably got a 1 in 5 chance :)
Apr 09 20:48:30 * SpeedEvil wonders how many of the accelerometer applications violate A) The laws of physics. B) Current state-of-the art $10K accels. C) The ones in the neo.
Apr 09 20:48:49 <summatusmentis> lol
Apr 09 20:49:14 <cb22> from newton import physics
Apr 09 20:49:23 <cb22> physics.ignore()
Apr 09 20:50:13 <summatusmentis> FWIW, OpenAFS(another project I applied to) got 5 slots, minimum
Apr 09 20:50:18 <ScaredyCat> yer cannie break the laws o physics,  laws o physics,  laws o physics, yer cannie break the laws o physics,  laws o physics jim
Apr 09 20:50:31 <macdonalder> summatusmentis: I'll see your Dom and raise you a Bollinger :P
Apr 09 20:50:51 <summatusmentis> macdonalder: I don't know anything about wine, I picked something that I knew was supposed to be good
Apr 09 20:50:53 <summatusmentis> :-D
Apr 09 20:51:28 <cb22> and he included 500 euros. in 10 years, thats like the whole US economy :p
Apr 09 20:51:41 <macdonalder> haha
Apr 09 20:52:04 <raster> cb22: hahahahahah
Apr 09 20:52:06 <macdonalder> well, I know when I'm beat
Apr 09 20:52:10 <summatusmentis> cb22: :-D like I, as a poor college student, could scrounge up $500, let alone 500 euros
Apr 09 20:52:58 <summatusmentis> OM might get a sizable amount of slots, OpenAFS got 5 minimum, and had 29 projects submitted
Apr 09 20:53:14 <summatusmentis> 13 different projects, 29 applications, sorry
Apr 09 20:53:23 <cb22> yeah moin also got 4 or so
Apr 09 20:53:44 <summatusmentis> mickey|zzZZzz needs to wake up, and tell us how many we got!! :)
Apr 09 20:53:47 <abraxa_> I wonder how they know
Apr 09 20:53:58 <summatusmentis> a preliminary list was released to mentors today
Apr 09 20:54:05 <abraxa_> oh
Apr 09 20:54:23 <summatusmentis> (I need something else to base my obsession on :D)
Apr 09 20:54:27 <macdonalder> I was figuring yesterday, based purely on proportions, openmoko could get as many as 9 or so could it not?
Apr 09 20:54:52 <cb22> maybe stefan_schmidt knows?
Apr 09 20:55:39 <macdonalder> assuming the applications were varied enough in ideas... they'd hardly assign 9 slots to have 9 people working on the same thing ;)
Apr 09 20:55:42 <cb22> macdonalder, but remember openafs poses no thread to android
Apr 09 20:55:48 <cb22> </conspiracy>
Apr 09 20:55:49 <macdonalder> haha yes
Apr 09 20:55:56 <macdonalder> someone brought that up the other day
Apr 09 20:56:07 <raster> afs?
Apr 09 20:56:08 <raster> android?
Apr 09 20:56:09 <raster> wh?
Apr 09 20:56:19 <cb22> andrew file system afaik
Apr 09 20:56:23 <summatusmentis> raster: OpenAFS is another project I applied to
Apr 09 20:56:24 <raster> yeah
Apr 09 20:56:32 <raster> what has afs got to do with android in any way?
Apr 09 20:56:38 <cb22> nothing
Apr 09 20:56:39 <macdonalder> it doesn't
Apr 09 20:56:41 <cb22> thats the thing
Apr 09 20:56:42 <raster> hmm
Apr 09 20:56:43 <raster> ok
Apr 09 20:56:47 <cb22> openmoko and android do
Apr 09 20:56:57 <raster> yes
Apr 09 20:57:03 <cb22> google could be being evil :p
Apr 09 20:57:07 <summatusmentis> macdonalder: what were you basing your calculations on?
Apr 09 20:57:20 * cb22 doesnt want the google spies to hear him
Apr 09 20:58:16 <macdonalder> summatusmentis: number of total applications to GSoC (~7000), number to OpenMoko (~70 apparently), number of sponsord projects (~900)
Apr 09 20:58:23 <ScaredyCat> could be?
Apr 09 20:58:25 <ScaredyCat> are
Apr 09 20:58:33 <abraxa_> 900 projects?!
Apr 09 20:58:42 <summatusmentis> #to OM is closer to ~60
Apr 09 20:58:50 <summatusmentis> and I think google was saying ~1000 slots
Apr 09 20:59:06 <macdonalder> yeah, the numbers were a little iffy
Apr 09 20:59:09 <cb22> 8 slots or so then
Apr 09 20:59:18 <abraxa_> Time will tell :)
Apr 09 20:59:23 * macdonalder nods
Apr 09 20:59:41 <abraxa_> We'll see great things one way or another
Apr 09 20:59:53 * ScaredyCat wonders if that's slots or sluts
Apr 09 21:00:25 <cb22> ScaredyCat, they are more related then you think...
Apr 09 21:00:30 * abraxa_ buys dirty minded ScaredyCat a ticket to his wife
Apr 09 21:00:46 * ScaredyCat travels back tomorrow
Apr 09 21:00:51 <abraxa_> ohhhh
Apr 09 21:01:07 <abraxa_> See, I'm psychic :)
Apr 09 21:01:15 * ScaredyCat thinks google sluts would have open sores
Apr 09 21:01:27 <abraxa_> rofl...
Apr 09 21:02:28 <cb22> ha, we are bigger then #android
Apr 09 21:02:34 <abraxa_> 314!
Apr 09 21:02:39 <abraxa_> We are the pi!
Apr 09 21:02:44 <cb22> vs 80~
Apr 09 21:03:23 <ScaredyCat> how many in #android are corporate shills ?
Apr 09 21:03:41 <cb22> everyone except ChanServ?
Apr 09 21:03:46 <ScaredyCat> lol
Apr 09 21:04:13 <slaxxer> an the open clan wars begin   
Apr 09 21:04:16 * macdonalder hides as s0ny
Apr 09 21:04:49 <ScaredyCat> slaxxer: android isn't open
Apr 09 21:04:55 <slaxxer> o
Apr 09 21:05:14 <wurp2> As he said, they begin ;-)
Apr 09 21:05:19 * cb22 brings out libc^Wnukes
Apr 09 21:05:33 <raster> rthey should call it open android
Apr 09 21:05:37 <raster> then i'd be open
Apr 09 21:05:40 <raster> it'd
Apr 09 21:05:41 <raster> :)
Apr 09 21:06:09 <summatusmentis> is android like an OS X of mobile? OSS base, but then proprietary GUI?
Apr 09 21:06:47 <edistar_> summatusmentis: yep
Apr 09 21:06:52 <summatusmentis> mm
Apr 09 21:07:18 <ScaredyCat> android shmandroid
Apr 09 21:07:35 <raster> a big diff between OM and android
Apr 09 21:07:45 <ScaredyCat> m
Apr 09 21:07:46 <raster> OM is using standard linux libs, software and components
Apr 09 21:07:47 <raster> we use X
Apr 09 21:07:59 <cb22> yeah, we have raster, they cant beat us :D
Apr 09 21:08:01 <ScaredyCat> at the moment
Apr 09 21:08:01 <raster> for android u need to write apps SPECIFICALLy for their gui
Apr 09 21:08:05 <raster> their encvironment
Apr 09 21:08:15 <raster> for OM u can port and just adjust a ui to fit on a low res small screen
Apr 09 21:08:18 <raster> the rest is the same
Apr 09 21:08:22 <edistar_> luckily, otherwise OM would be superfluous
Apr 09 21:08:50 <raster> i personally think any linux based phone os that isnt trying to emulate desktop development as much as possible is a long-term waste of time
Apr 09 21:09:23 <summatusmentis> raster: functionality-wise? or look wise?
Apr 09 21:09:38 <raster> nuts-and-bolts-wise
Apr 09 21:09:44 <summatusmentis> you can have desktop functionality using a completely different interface tailored for mobile
Apr 09 21:09:47 <raster> i.e - be able to use any toolkits u use on the desktop
Apr 09 21:09:51 <raster> (gtk, qt, whatever)
Apr 09 21:09:53 <summatusmentis> oh, that makes sense, I agree w/ that
Apr 09 21:10:08 <raster> be able to write apps in any lang u use on a desktop (c, c++, java, python etc. etc.)
Apr 09 21:10:21 <raster> so your development flow/environment/whatever changes as little as possible
Apr 09 21:10:30 <summatusmentis> right, that makes sense to me
Apr 09 21:10:48 <raster> you DO (as a practical matter) have to adjust the ui to simply be able to display info in a low res (vga in our case - likely u need to adjust to be less too)
Apr 09 21:11:00 <raster> and be able to accep inptu from the limited input mechanisms on a phone
Apr 09 21:11:09 <raster> but as such thats most of what u should really be doing
Apr 09 21:11:33 <summatusmentis> I agree w/ everything you said, I thought you mean something like GNOME on a phone, which wouldn't work IMO
Apr 09 21:11:37 <raster> (well other than making your app efficient as u have only 128m ram and a slow processor etc. at your disposal - but frankly making an app efficient is something u should have done to start with anyway)
Apr 09 21:11:49 <raster> and no
Apr 09 21:11:53 <raster> not a "gnome" phone
Apr 09 21:12:00 <raster> but if i write an app - it works under gnome
Apr 09 21:12:02 <raster> under kde
Apr 09 21:12:07 <raster> under enlightenment
Apr 09 21:12:09 <raster> udner fluxbox
Apr 09 21:12:13 <raster> under xfce ...
Apr 09 21:12:16 <summatusmentis> yes, all that I agree w/
Apr 09 21:12:19 <SpeedEvil> under fvwm95
Apr 09 21:12:23 <raster> i can use gtk or qt or sdl or efl 
Apr 09 21:12:28 <raster> it's my choice as a developer
Apr 09 21:12:37 <raster> i can use c, c++,, python etc.
Apr 09 21:13:00 <raster> i think this is the mistake almsot every linux "hpone os" makes
Apr 09 21:13:13 <raster> they build some monolithin stack and try and shoe-horn app developers into it
Apr 09 21:13:20 <summatusmentis> mm
Apr 09 21:13:22 <raster> and that just pisses me off
Apr 09 21:13:26 <raster> as a dev
Apr 09 21:13:40 <raster> when i KNOW the os under all of it is something i can normally program nicely for the way i like
Apr 09 21:13:46 <raster> and then i get artificial constraints
Apr 09 21:13:56 <summatusmentis> just out of curiousity, is OM planning on doing a huge ad campaign when the software stack is ready?
Apr 09 21:14:05 <raster> not that i know of
Apr 09 21:14:21 <summatusmentis> not really mass-marketing the phone?
Apr 09 21:14:32 <cb22> maybe for 03
Apr 09 21:14:42 <cb22> i doubt for 02 though
Apr 09 21:14:57 <summatusmentis> I guess i feel like if mass market is the goal, there needs to be some sort of campaign to market it
Apr 09 21:15:18 <cb22> s/mass market/mass developers/
Apr 09 21:15:26 <cb22> thats what i think imho
Apr 09 21:16:08 <summatusmentis> is it a feasible business strategy?
Apr 09 21:16:52 * summatusmentis goes to play kickball
Apr 09 21:17:06 <edistar_> summatusmentis: depends on how much resources and time OM has.. if they try to gather experience and software, yes
Apr 09 21:17:13 <raster> summatusmentis:  we are a logn way from mass market
Apr 09 21:17:36 <raster> right now we are still very much about providing a platform developers LIKE
Apr 09 21:17:48 <raster> i know that's my primary goal
Apr 09 21:18:04 <raster> we can't go runing headlong into mass market land without a solid war-machine
Apr 09 21:18:12 <raster> and that war-machine is a platofmr devs LIKE
Apr 09 21:18:31 <abraxa_> Yeah, and establishing a common base we can declare as an official set of libraries/APIs to use and rely on
Apr 09 21:18:34 <edistar_> and hundreds of apps :)
Apr 09 21:18:57 <edistar_> cause tha'll be the enduser advantage of using OM
Apr 09 21:19:00 <raster> edistar_:  thats a result of makign a platform devs like (and is trivial to dev for and adapt software to)
Apr 09 21:19:32 <edistar_> raster: yeah
Apr 09 21:21:15 <ccfly> good night
Apr 09 21:21:19 <ccfly> happy hacking
Apr 09 21:24:07 <raster> :)
Apr 09 21:35:47 * cb22 hacks with a chainsaw
Apr 09 21:59:10 * pyknite is impatient to get his gta02 ;)
Apr 09 21:59:55 * cb22_ is more impatient
Apr 09 22:00:45 <wurp2> I was so impatient I bought an '01
Apr 09 22:00:56 <pyknite> :P
Apr 09 22:01:20 <unknown_lamer> my nokia 7610 can't hold on my longer
Apr 09 22:01:36 <unknown_lamer> luckily it doesn't have to much longer
Apr 09 22:02:19 <pyknite> a few more weeks and normally we will get one ( if what i read this morning is right )
Apr 09 22:02:28 * macdonalder still has a motorola v551
Apr 09 22:02:38 <unknown_lamer> as long as the gta02 can last for an entire day without being charged (I ask for nothing more as my battery has been shot for well over a year and dies after an hour of talking nowadays ... but it must sit idle and all)
Apr 09 22:02:51 <unknown_lamer> since the PMU looks to actually work I have hope
Apr 09 22:02:56 <wurp2> pyknite: I haven't seen anyone indicate how long they expect the 2nd & 3rd PVT iterations to take :-(
Apr 09 22:03:35 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: Well, until they get suspend/resume to work, or at least cpufreq, afaik it will be about the same as the '01, no?
Apr 09 22:04:13 <pyknite> wurp2: this morning before the update on the community page, there where a post saying that we don't need anymore to wait month but only a few week
Apr 09 22:04:31 <wurp2> pyknite: Thanks for the update!
Apr 09 22:04:37 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: there are patches in the kernel for cpufreq and suspend/resume issues are mostly fix iirc
Apr 09 22:04:37 * wurp2 reads the wiki...
Apr 09 22:05:07 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: FR specific patches?
Apr 09 22:05:10 <unknown_lamer> wurp2: the thing with gta01 is that it has a bum PMU and some board problems iirc
Apr 09 22:05:13 <pyknite> wurp2: but kow it changed again with a post from the 
Apr 09 22:05:17 <pyknite> oups sry
Apr 09 22:05:44 <pyknite> but now it changed again
Apr 09 22:07:09 <wurp2> pyknite: Yeah, I think the new info is more correct
Apr 09 22:07:56 <wurp2> I would guess that something will happen near the beginning of May
Apr 09 22:08:03 <pyknite> wurp2: yep.... those i read this morning was juste below the update from 25 march
Apr 09 22:08:13 <wurp2> but I woulda said that about April, and March, and Feb, etc. a month before each of them came
Apr 09 22:08:17 <wurp2> :-)
Apr 09 22:08:26 <pyknite> :P
Apr 09 22:08:30 <cb22> well...
Apr 09 22:08:45 <cb22> 18 march was when the first pvt run started
Apr 09 22:08:59 <wurp2> agh, that's longer than I remembered
Apr 09 22:09:00 <cb22> and completed on the 7 of april
Apr 09 22:09:06 <cb22> give or take
Apr 09 22:09:12 <cb22> 20 days
Apr 09 22:09:17 <wurp2> Yeah, that would imply 6 weeks until PVTs done
Apr 09 22:09:31 <pyknite> erf
Apr 09 22:09:40 <wurp2> Then however long until they have enough mass produced units
Apr 09 22:09:42 <pyknite> and next more waiting for production
Apr 09 22:10:00 <wurp2> July release, here we come
Apr 09 22:10:33 * cb22 places bets for july too
Apr 09 22:10:36 <unknown_lamer> that assumes that the other two pvt runs take the same amount of time
Apr 09 22:11:01 <pyknite> i can't wait 3 month more :(
Apr 09 22:11:16 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: sure
Apr 09 22:11:23 <wurp2> You think they'll take longer? ;-)
Apr 09 22:11:31 <cb22> could be shorter
Apr 09 22:11:44 <pyknite> hopefully
Apr 09 22:11:45 <cb22> 1st pvt is more of a milestone then the second
Apr 09 22:12:17 <wurp2> gtg, have fun guys
Apr 09 22:13:05 <yoyo> sleep time
Apr 09 22:13:07 <yoyo> sijaa
Apr 09 22:14:47 <pyknite> sleep time too.... get a fu***** mips'assembler test tomorrow :(
Apr 09 22:15:36 <unknown_lamer> pyknite: good luck!
Apr 09 22:15:46 * unknown_lamer wishes he hadn't dropped outish before he got to build a mips
Apr 09 22:16:18 <pyknite> thx
Apr 09 22:16:54 <pyknite> i will need luck ;)
Apr 09 22:27:19 <lkcl> http://www.wireless3g4free.com/
Apr 09 22:36:31 <stevecrozz> looks like we're nearing my dream of owning an open phone! i am excited
Apr 09 22:37:23 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r165 10/trunk/software/py-odeviced/ (4 files in 2 dirs): py-odeviced: add cython-module for wireless power
Apr 09 23:04:53 <Cthobs> Did I miss another email? Is there is a reason for a 404 on fetch attempt for /git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz?
Apr 09 23:05:59 <abraxa_> ~logs
Apr 09 23:06:00 <apt> well, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
Apr 09 23:06:56 <abraxa_> Cthobs: See http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt from 18:11 on onwards
Apr 09 23:07:42 <Cthobs> abraxa_: Thanks
Apr 09 23:08:19 <abraxa_> 18:31:34 has the quick'n'dirty workaround
Apr 09 23:09:31 <summatusmentis> abraxa_: mickey|zzZZzz keeps making commits to fs.o that fit into my project :)
Apr 09 23:09:38 <summatusmentis> that's not a good sign
Apr 09 23:11:17 <abraxa_> Dunno... Could be that he just wants something hack-ish *now* and something proper from you
Apr 09 23:12:01 <summatusmentis> it's possible
Apr 09 23:12:54 <abraxa_> Yeah, cause he wants to refine the API to set it in stone - and best way to do that is by having an implementation
Apr 09 23:13:16 <abraxa_> Doesn't mean he'll implement *all* aspects of it so maybe he'll leave that to you
Apr 09 23:14:07 <summatusmentis> mm... I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high... it just furthers my obsessive qualities :)
Apr 09 23:14:24 <abraxa_> lol
Apr 09 23:14:27 <abraxa_> I know how you feel
Apr 09 23:14:33 <abraxa_> I try not to think about it
Apr 09 23:14:43 <abraxa_> There's nothing I can do until the 18th anyway
Apr 09 23:15:49 <abraxa_> I mean... what's the point if a mentor tells me "we like your project" just to end up on spot #5 when Openmoko ends up getting 3 slots again
Apr 09 23:15:59 <summatusmentis> yeah, I suppose
Apr 09 23:16:03 <abraxa_> I would've gotten my hopes up and shattered by google :)
Apr 09 23:16:38 <summatusmentis> yeah, that's what I'm worried about :) People seemed to think we'd get maybe 9 slots
Apr 09 23:16:50 <summatusmentis> if following the guidelines that google described
Apr 09 23:17:01 <abraxa_> That would rock but I'm wary of that
Apr 09 23:17:11 <summatusmentis> how come?
Apr 09 23:17:24 <summatusmentis> well, first off, how many mentors are there, do we know?
Apr 09 23:17:35 <abraxa_> 6
Apr 09 23:18:00 <abraxa_> Each of them can vote
Apr 09 23:18:03 <summatusmentis> ok, so OM won't probably get more than 6 projects, unless they can find more mentors
Apr 09 23:18:11 <abraxa_> err
Apr 09 23:18:13 <abraxa_> Not quite
Apr 09 23:18:14 <abraxa_> Lemme show you
Apr 09 23:18:20 <summatusmentis> uh, ok
Apr 09 23:18:31 <abraxa_> http://code.google.com/soc/2007/coresystems/about.html
Apr 09 23:18:33 <abraxa_> Have a look
Apr 09 23:18:46 <abraxa_> How often do you see "Stefan Reinauer" as mentor?
Apr 09 23:19:09 <summatusmentis> lol, oh. Alright, point taken
Apr 09 23:19:15 <abraxa_> :)
Apr 09 23:19:22 <abraxa_> 7 projects... 1 mentor
Apr 09 23:20:04 <rtm> We need a Google Summer of Cloning.
Apr 09 23:20:06 <abraxa_> So really, too many variables
Apr 09 23:20:11 <summatusmentis> do you know how many projects OM requested?
Apr 09 23:20:30 <zedstar_> google summer of clothes
Apr 09 23:20:35 <zedstar_> a new fashion brand
Apr 09 23:21:38 <abraxa_> Summer of Cloning?
Apr 09 23:21:43 <abraxa_> What would that be? :O
Apr 09 23:21:59 <macdonalder> to produce more mentor I'd imagine ;)
Apr 09 23:22:05 <macdonalder> *mentors
Apr 09 23:28:25 <zedstar_> btw i saw the accelerometers in action tonight in the freerunner prototype
Apr 09 23:28:44 <summatusmentis> are they cool?
Apr 09 23:29:08 <zedstar_> well yeh seem to work! thos did a small app to display some data from it
Apr 09 23:31:00 <abraxa_> Could've used mickey's demo app to automatically switch between landscape and portrait
Apr 09 23:32:24 <zedstar_> was quite a bit of interest in the phone at this event which cant be bad i guess
Apr 09 23:34:22 <stevecrozz> zedstar_: I haven't been able to see the phone in person yet, do you have a freerunner?
Apr 09 23:36:13 <zedstar_> no....was at an event tonight in london where there was a prototype
Apr 09 23:36:18 <summatusmentis> zedstar_: could be bad if they run out once sale goes public
Apr 09 23:37:20 <zedstar_> lot of people there were keen to see it which is not always the case at some of the mobile events i attend
Apr 09 23:39:42 <summatusmentis> that's cool
Apr 09 23:40:19 <stevecrozz> well i certainly am, i absolutely can't wait, I've been putting off getting a new phone for almost a year now
Apr 09 23:40:24 <stevecrozz> because ive been waiting for this
Apr 09 23:40:39 <zedstar_> the speaker was great i thought... ole tange
Apr 09 23:40:45 <summatusmentis> god... cyanide and happiness isn't really that funny
Apr 09 23:41:24 <summatusmentis> stevecrozz: I'm waiting until  my conract expires(nov I think), unless I get one through SoC
Apr 09 23:41:54 <stevecrozz> i don't have a contract thankfully, those are so 2007 :)
Apr 09 23:42:26 <summatusmentis> (on cdma)
Apr 09 23:44:55 <Cthobs> abraxa_: Any idea which bb file yoyo was referring to?
Apr 09 23:46:20 <abraxa_> Cthobs: bitbake/lib/bb/feth/git.py
Apr 09 23:50:22 <rtm> Does anyone happen to know where I can find the pixmaps (open.png, etc) which gpe-gallery requires, but does not provide?
Apr 09 23:51:16 <abraxa_> gpe-icons IIRC
Apr 09 23:51:41 <rtm> abraxa: I'll try that.   Thanks!
Apr 09 23:52:05 <abraxa_> np =3
Apr 09 23:53:24 <rtm> abraxa: You were right.   Thanks again.
Apr 10 02:43:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1333 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 10 02:43:01 <cdbot2> * * ion tag list covers the bottom buttons
Apr 10 02:43:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1333
Apr 10 02:44:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1334 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 10 02:44:01 <cdbot2> * * not scrollable and scroll bar appears (partically)
Apr 10 02:44:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1334
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 10 02:59:56 2008