**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 11 02:59:57 2008 Apr 11 06:36:09 Hmm.. Forwarding voicemails: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/960-forwarding-voicemails Apr 11 07:02:56 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r179 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Apr 11 07:02:56 freesmartphone.org: Add more information to README Apr 11 07:02:56 freesmartphone.org: Added dbus configuration example Apr 11 07:02:56 freesmartphone.org: Cleaned dbus_thread.py starting and stopping Apr 11 07:02:56 freesmartphone.org: Added new sms test: test_SendMessageFail Apr 11 07:02:57 freesmartphone.org: Moved back to using system bus Apr 11 07:25:26 good morning Apr 11 07:26:25 :) Apr 11 07:59:26 Underneath the "50%" blue flag. http://three.co.uk/personal/index.omp The question is - which half. Apr 11 08:29:53 Hmm.. Now linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb fails Apr 11 08:43:05 wurp2|away, not a new stack, that's a standard openmoko image Apr 11 08:47:10 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r180 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (14 files in 2 dirs): Apr 11 08:47:10 freesmartphone.org: Small fixes to tests Apr 11 08:47:10 freesmartphone.org: Implemented rest of phonebook methods. Apr 11 08:47:10 freesmartphone.org: Made error reporting unified. Apr 11 09:14:07 I wonder why isn't OM built in C++ ? Apr 11 09:14:33 C++ is evil ;) Apr 11 09:14:49 at least it supports OOP Apr 11 09:15:01 CVirus: Glib too. Apr 11 09:16:01 what is it built on then? Apr 11 09:16:06 I mean OOP native support in the language Apr 11 09:16:11 Bubbi: C Apr 11 09:16:16 ah.. :) Apr 11 09:16:26 Glib = pseudo-oop for C? Apr 11 09:17:22 GLib provides the core application building blocks for libraries and applications written in C. It provides the core object system used in GNOME, the main loop implementation, and a large set of utility functions for strings and common data structures. Apr 11 09:18:06 is Glib better than C++ ? Apr 11 09:18:24 Guess that depends on who you ask Apr 11 09:18:36 no, it's both OOP, it can't be good anyway :) Apr 11 09:18:43 hehe Apr 11 09:18:49 EVERYTHING SUCKS! Apr 11 09:18:57 what sucks less? Apr 11 09:19:00 yea! except me! Apr 11 09:19:05 zash: suckless.org! Apr 11 09:19:10 :D Apr 11 09:19:34 someone port wmii to om! Apr 11 09:19:45 Which sucks less ... C++ or Glib ? Apr 11 09:19:48 and in what way ? Apr 11 09:21:01 GLIB pwns Apr 11 09:21:16 especially strings and lists thingies it offers Apr 11 09:21:30 glib sucks more imho, because bringing OOP to a non-OOP language brings big downsides. Apr 11 09:21:33 PHP! Apr 11 09:21:39 * Gottox slaps zash Apr 11 09:21:50 ~trout zash Apr 11 09:21:51 * apt slaps zash around a bit with a large trout! Apr 11 09:22:08 indeed Apr 11 09:24:30 I believe everything sucks except these things which prove the opposite. Apr 11 09:25:05 linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb surely sucks: http://pastie.caboo.se/179066 Apr 11 09:25:11 but PHP sucks in nearly every way. Apr 11 09:25:13 Anyone gotten it to build today? Apr 11 09:34:14 CM, me me Apr 11 09:34:22 CM, make update did the trick Apr 11 09:34:33 Sup3rkiddo: Odd, I did a make update this morning Apr 11 09:34:35 I'll try again Apr 11 09:37:24 Still borked Apr 11 10:00:58 freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r181 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Apr 11 10:00:58 freesmartphone.org: Fixes to ui.py Apr 11 10:00:58 freesmartphone.org: Split at init to two parts: one at start and one after sim is ready Apr 11 10:31:23 Hello Apr 11 10:31:56 any updates on battery life? is it improved for the Freerunner? Apr 11 10:40:20 The battery life for GTA01 is software dependant - and the software hasn't been written (largely) Apr 11 11:09:14 behold... http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/opkg.png Apr 11 11:09:34 mickeyl, check out my picture of opkg :-) Apr 11 11:10:02 hell Apr 11 11:10:04 that's pretty convoluted Apr 11 11:10:33 mickeyl, and it's my job to try and untangle it right now ;-) Apr 11 11:11:03 Hehe.. Ouch.. Apr 11 11:20:06 http://www.mauve.plus.com/beer.jpg and Apr 11 11:20:07 oops Apr 11 11:21:52 thomasg: I was about to say it diddn't load for me, then I noticed it was somewhat zoomed out. Apr 11 11:21:55 thos: Apr 11 11:23:17 heh Apr 11 11:24:50 SpeedEvil: Nice shot.. Apr 11 11:25:24 It wasn't mine - it was intended as a demonstration of - along with http://www.mauve.plus.com/beerp.jpg as the differentces between baseline and progressive jpegs. Apr 11 11:25:39 It was the only suitable large jpeg I had on hand. Apr 11 11:26:01 So the guy wasn't you then, yes? Apr 11 11:26:39 yes, not me. Apr 11 11:27:05 Shame about the beer.. ;) Apr 11 11:27:20 Yeah, I wouldn't have thought you'd do something braindead like that, lol Apr 11 11:27:39 Hehe Apr 11 11:27:40 Man, that woman must've been mad Apr 11 11:28:31 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4344 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-wifi/data/Wifi.png: openmoko-panel-wifi: update a new wifi icon (Erin Yueh) Apr 11 11:45:23 openmoko: 03thomas * r4345 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (opkg.h opkg_defines.h opkg_error.h opkg_state.h): opkg: split out opkg.h Apr 11 11:46:34 mickeyl, although, could you imagine what qt or enlightenment or some other toolkit would look like? ;-) Apr 11 11:47:05 thos: yes.... scary Apr 11 11:47:09 even more so :) Apr 11 11:47:12 bbiab Apr 11 11:48:16 thos: I wonder how openmoko in oe would look like if you make a dependancy graph of the bb files Apr 11 11:48:32 CM, you can do that already with bitbake Apr 11 11:48:38 CM, bitbake -g openmoko-devel-image Apr 11 11:48:40 iirc Apr 11 11:48:41 TERRORDOOM Apr 11 11:48:44 Oh? Cool Apr 11 11:48:48 Didn't know Apr 11 11:50:17 Ok, 23106 lines or so.. Apr 11 11:55:54 has anyone who has a gta02 successfully used wifi yet? Apr 11 11:56:01 yes Apr 11 11:56:14 AIUI it just works. Apr 11 11:56:15 is the driver fully working then? :) Apr 11 11:56:26 Actually - I'm unsure if it was wifi or usb Apr 11 11:56:34 ok Apr 11 11:56:35 zomg .. can i toucht plz plz .. can i see it plz plz Apr 11 11:56:38 :-p Apr 11 11:56:43 :P Apr 11 11:56:53 * SpeedEvil has none - the closest I've been is ssh. Apr 11 12:00:53 edistar_math: There are some issues with WiFi still (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1250) but they should be solvable in software (i.e. the driver) Apr 11 12:01:17 edistar: There are some issues with WiFi still (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1250) but they should be solvable in software (i.e. the driver) Apr 11 12:01:30 ok, thx Apr 11 14:15:43 hmm tangogps is nice... just needs a way to fetch maps into permanent storage... Apr 11 14:18:24 thos: Oh, underground looked to me like just the kernel + basic driver & module stuff Apr 11 14:18:26 And we need an xkcd GPS. Apr 11 14:19:12 I thought it had a different window manager, interface for gsm (new dbus from fsp.org), etc. Apr 11 14:19:15 http://xkcd.com/407/ Apr 11 14:20:43 loop forever { if distance-to $destination from $cur_pos < $last_pos { say "hotter" }; sleep 7 } Apr 11 14:20:51 or someting Apr 11 14:21:34 wurp2, maybe Apr 11 14:21:41 wurp2, but what I was using was not underground Apr 11 14:22:04 If I post some ipk's will more people test my theme? Apr 11 14:22:06 thos: Oh, I see Apr 11 14:22:25 It looked more like ug to me than om Apr 11 14:22:39 wurp2, I guess that's my theme? ;-) Apr 11 14:23:15 Was it just a theme? It looked like a theme + some apps interacting with the app list in ways I've not seen before Apr 11 14:23:25 Displaying dynamic info in the app list Apr 11 14:23:42 hmm Apr 11 14:23:48 wurp2, which screenshot are you talking about? Apr 11 14:23:53 e.g. some orientation info on the accelerometer, or maybe it was your theme displaying an app I've never seen before Apr 11 14:24:07 Let me try to hunt it down. I've slept since then, and I'm on a different machine Apr 11 14:24:40 wurp2, that was my gta02.py Apr 11 14:24:44 thos: I will test qvga if somebody will fix it ;p Apr 11 14:25:05 hmm Apr 11 14:25:14 dcordes, at least the matchbox theme will not be broken ;-) Apr 11 14:25:29 thos: what you mean? you fixed it? Apr 11 14:25:59 dcordes, i mean, my mathcbox theme isn't broken in the first place :-P Apr 11 14:35:12 thos: did you build some image with qvga? Apr 11 14:35:18 openmoko: 03thomas * r4346 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (12 files): libopkg: remove internal dependency on libopkg.h and opkg_cmd.h Apr 11 14:35:39 dcordes, a qvga theme with my theme should be really easy Apr 11 14:35:46 dcordes, my theme is *much* smaller Apr 11 14:36:01 thos: can you provide me with an ipk? Apr 11 14:36:04 dcordes, you should try it out and see what needs adjusting Apr 11 14:36:05 oh Apr 11 14:36:10 do you not have a build? :-) Apr 11 14:36:11 I noticed your theme in the planet Apr 11 14:36:23 thos: I'm talking about a qvga one Apr 11 14:38:04 dcordes, i'm confused Apr 11 14:38:16 dcordes, i'm suggesting you try my theme on QVGA Apr 11 14:38:40 oh I see and just check whether it works in a way? Apr 11 14:38:47 dcordes, yeah Apr 11 14:42:57 thos: is there a way to automate the packaging of your theme rather than the normal one into one's images? Apr 11 14:43:20 dcordes, you mean, make it the default theme? Apr 11 14:43:36 yes Apr 11 14:43:48 dcordes, you have to ask people in charge I guess :-) Apr 11 14:55:20 openmoko: 03werner * r4347 10/developers/werner/bb_slack.pl: Apr 11 14:55:20 openmoko: Quick and dirty script to calculate how many "slack" blocks we'd need per Apr 11 14:55:20 openmoko: NAND partition for a certain probability that these blocks will indeed be Apr 11 14:55:20 openmoko: sufficient to accommodate the bad blocks that may fall into this area. Apr 11 14:55:20 openmoko: Assumes that bad blocks are evenly distributed and don't come in clumps. Apr 11 15:02:06 thos: Yeah, it was gta02.py Apr 11 15:02:11 Sorry, had to go to a meeting Apr 11 15:03:14 The .py and the ug-ish look had me fooled :-) Apr 11 15:32:15 Is everyone taking Friday off? ;-) Apr 11 15:32:46 yaaaay friday!!! Apr 11 15:33:41 boo Friday Apr 11 15:33:50 Still no damn news from Google re: my employment there Apr 11 15:34:13 wurp2: how did you do in the interview ? Apr 11 15:34:14 I was supposed to find out *last* Friday the next step after my one HR & two tech phone interviews Apr 11 15:34:29 I answered all of the questions... Apr 11 15:34:36 wurp2 ah so next stage is the 4 hour grilling? Apr 11 15:34:40 wurp2: how did they get to you ? Apr 11 15:34:43 hehe Apr 11 15:35:17 On the 2nd interview, one question I answered with a solution that only works for the 1st 676 cases (I recognized that in the interview) Apr 11 15:35:36 and the last Q the answer I gave was not the most efficient, but still quite efficient Apr 11 15:36:10 They contacted me; they had read my resume Apr 11 15:36:14 gotta go, work mtg Apr 11 15:55:25 hi Apr 11 15:55:34 ho Apr 11 15:55:39 hi Apr 11 15:55:50 Got a problem with bitbake and build Apr 11 15:55:51 ho Apr 11 15:56:41 openmoko site shop section has problem ? Apr 11 15:57:10 bitbake $OMDIR/build openmoko-devel-image Apr 11 15:57:23 this gives loads of errors Apr 11 15:57:59 check this out : http://pastebin.com/m24cbd767 Apr 11 15:57:59 sertac: ? Apr 11 15:58:36 nezza-_-, its giving me parsing error Apr 11 15:58:53 I cant figure out what to do Apr 11 16:00:01 https://direct.openmoko.com/ <- no problems with shop Apr 11 16:01:31 shazkhan: make update-bitbake Apr 11 16:01:51 (if you're using MokoMakefile) Apr 11 16:02:04 no I am going manually Apr 11 16:02:42 I have followed the wiki moko from scratch Apr 11 16:03:01 How did you obtain bitbake? Apr 11 16:05:33 abraxa_, ?!! Apr 11 16:08:25 thos? I'm just asking him how he obtained it as he's not using MokoMakefile and his repository might have installed an old version Apr 11 16:09:01 ohsorry Apr 11 16:09:40 Nothing to be sorry for, heh Apr 11 16:10:17 abraxa_, btw I read your PIM proposal Apr 11 16:10:20 abraxa_, and commented Apr 11 16:11:51 Yeah, didn't get a chance to respond yet - I'll do so this weekend Apr 11 16:14:38 oh nice lbreakout2 is already packaged woo Apr 11 16:15:29 curse needing an actual device to futz around with writing an accelerometer input method for controlling the paddle Apr 11 16:15:52 unknown_lamer: that would be pretty awesome Apr 11 16:16:25 and kind of necessary because there isn't a keypad on the freerunner and all :-) Apr 11 16:22:23 unknown_lamer: you don't need one Apr 11 16:22:32 unknown_lamer: just use a mouse. Apr 11 16:22:38 It's just a couple of /dev/inputs Apr 11 16:22:40 AIUI Apr 11 16:22:58 Or even a wii-thingy Apr 11 16:23:34 SpeedEvil: but is the data going to be usable directly from the input device? I mean, I just want to drop it into landscape mode and tilt the unit back and forth to move the paddle Apr 11 16:23:57 no - you have to itnerpret it Apr 11 16:23:59 I was thinking I'd have to do some minor translation of the coordinate data to something usable Apr 11 16:24:05 yeah that was all I was expecting Apr 11 16:24:27 I assume it's simply a 'normal' device which reports x and y events. Apr 11 16:24:34 and z Apr 11 16:24:49 I'll just have to add an option to lbreakout2 to go into 'accelerometer mode' or similar and just use the input data differently Apr 11 16:25:01 like a mouse - xy and z will vary, like moving a 3D mouse round a sphere. Apr 11 16:25:20 According to orientation Apr 11 16:25:34 plus instantaneous output from accelerations. Apr 11 17:16:18 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4348 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: update battery icon (Erin Yueh) Apr 11 17:32:10 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4349 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-dialer2: dial *#06# to get IMEI code Apr 11 17:43:01 oh boy, i look away for a few days and now there's 650 new mails in the mailing list :P Apr 11 17:45:14 The new pricing update from Steve was exciting Apr 11 17:46:55 ? Apr 11 17:47:00 It's now $10? Apr 11 17:47:03 Most of us already knew. :P Apr 11 17:47:06 $399 Apr 11 17:47:14 Or a 10 pack for $3,690 Apr 11 17:47:21 $399 for freerunner? Apr 11 17:47:24 Ah. Massive discount time. Apr 11 17:47:36 Qwell, Yes. Apr 11 17:47:45 lame Apr 11 17:47:51 Debug boards are $99 Apr 11 17:47:56 Sold seperately. :P Apr 11 17:48:07 Anything else availble? Apr 11 17:48:30 I knew $399 Apr 11 17:48:41 I didn't know the debug board or 10 pack pricing Apr 11 17:48:52 What about a 10 pack of debug boards? Apr 11 17:49:43 I thought, though, that the first round of PVT was over. Now he's saying that he's just now sending units out for tests? Apr 11 17:50:23 Qwell: Did something lead you to believe it would be cheaper? Apr 11 17:50:44 nope Apr 11 17:51:15 Ppl in the chat room here should be able to finagle $369 pricing Apr 11 17:51:16 that's fairly standard for a non-subsidized phone though Apr 11 17:51:28 Qwell: So why did you say lame? Apr 11 17:51:52 wurp2: wife, nuff said :p Apr 11 17:52:03 (finagle it by banding together) Apr 11 17:52:09 ah, yep Apr 11 17:52:29 Mine is very understanding about my need for a once-a-year 'useless' geek toy fix Apr 11 17:53:03 Qwell, Mine ORDERED me to purchase my Neo. You should start dropping daily hints now, buy the time they're on sale she'll pay $399 to shut you up. Apr 11 17:53:52 $400 was a good price for the middle of last year. Now, it's getting less good. Apr 11 17:54:38 The 3G debate really makes me wonder if I'd drop money for a Freerunner. Apr 11 17:54:56 when can I buy freerunner?? Apr 11 17:55:03 dcordes, When it goes on sale. :P Apr 11 17:55:16 haha Apr 11 17:55:18 And your guess is as good as mine to when that will be. Apr 11 17:55:19 no shit? Apr 11 17:55:25 dc" not announced. Apr 11 17:55:28 ROFL Apr 11 17:55:39 dcordes: magic-announce-ball says 'ask again later'. Apr 11 17:55:51 ok that satisfies me as an annoyed future buyer Apr 11 17:55:56 :/ Apr 11 17:56:10 SpeedEvil: dvorak? Apr 11 17:56:21 dvorak? Apr 11 17:56:36 your rather odd typo above looks like a dvorak typo :p Apr 11 17:56:39 Ah - no. Apr 11 17:56:44 Tab > " Apr 11 17:56:46 It's a UK style laptop keyboard. Apr 11 17:57:01 : and " are next to each other. Apr 11 17:57:48 I will rather get an iPhone Apr 11 17:58:16 dcordes: Probably at LEAST a month, based on the time for the 1st PVT, and the fact that two PVTs plus production ramp-up still to go Apr 11 17:58:42 I hear new iPhone will feature 3g Apr 11 17:58:44 :-( Apr 11 17:59:06 And iphones design budget is on the order of a thousand times more OMs Apr 11 17:59:33 gps is important to me, and not playing hide & seek jailbreaking a phone the manufacturer doesn't want broken Apr 11 17:59:45 Yeah. Apr 11 17:59:49 in case I really wanted one, I'd be _really_ annoyed by now Apr 11 17:59:54 supporting open sw & hw is a nice bonus Apr 11 17:59:54 Which is why I love the openness of openmoko. Apr 11 18:00:11 I mean - if there is a bug in the GSM firmware, I just flash it myself. Apr 11 18:00:20 wurp2: And that's why I wish people would buy the freerunner - cause if no one does there won't be a successor to it... Apr 11 18:00:24 SpeedEvil: ? Apr 11 18:00:45 I thought gsm firmware had to be signed right now, or was otherwise restricted in how it could be flashed Apr 11 18:00:59 abraxa_: Agreed Apr 11 18:01:00 wurp2: Sorry. That was irony. Apr 11 18:01:14 SpeedEvil: hm. I hear android is also open. Apr 11 18:01:15 * SpeedEvil tries to work out an emoticon for that. Apr 11 18:01:15 k, I thought it might be; making sure Apr 11 18:01:26 Who's gsm chip is it? Apr 11 18:01:32 Qwell: TI Apr 11 18:01:34 chip/firmware, I g uess I should say Apr 11 18:01:40 TI is being slightly less evil lately (documenting their chipsets! oh my) so perhaps OM will be able to distribute firmware updates eventually Apr 11 18:02:02 unknown_lamer: doesn't work that way Apr 11 18:02:09 SpeedEvil: do they do the firmware for it too? Apr 11 18:02:13 abraxa_: But how OM supports the 1973 will send a message about whether ppl should buy their stuff in the interest of supporting a "movement" Apr 11 18:02:39 wurp2: Yeah well... can't say I support their POV on that issue Apr 11 18:02:49 unknown_lamer: not for this class of chips - they are not typically distributed by distributors even. You simply need to call your TI representative, and prove that you can order a hundred thousand. Apr 11 18:03:50 SpeedEvil: I know that is how it is now, but perhaps TI's slow process of being less evil will change the policy of not allowing binary firmware updates to be distributed Apr 11 18:03:51 Though having said that, the chipset docs have leaked. Apr 11 18:04:09 one day in the far away future Apr 11 18:11:09 so are there any updates on release schedules? Apr 11 18:11:14 No. Apr 11 18:11:32 sweet Apr 11 18:12:09 patience! Apr 11 18:12:35 Pitchforks and torches! Apr 11 18:12:39 Storm the factory! Apr 11 18:12:42 :) Apr 11 18:13:06 i'm getting antsy, I want a change from uiq3 Apr 11 18:13:09 so I live in california Apr 11 18:13:18 the land of you wake up and it's 25degC outside Apr 11 18:13:25 and the GTA02 is unreadable in sunlight Apr 11 18:13:28 this saddens me Apr 11 18:13:35 :/ Apr 11 18:13:40 * SpeedEvil ponders modding it. Apr 11 18:14:08 ewon, It's 84F in my building right now. :( Apr 11 18:14:13 ewon: buy an olpc and use your gta02 as a usb dongle for the gsm & gps Apr 11 18:17:19 hi Apr 11 18:18:15 will Freerunner be compatible with any (including non-us) gsm operator? Apr 11 18:18:31 SamuraiDio: yep Apr 11 18:18:44 :) Apr 11 18:18:52 It is tri-band, though, so support either in US or everywhere else will be much better, depending on which you get Apr 11 18:19:28 know if it will support just one or tow sim cards? Apr 11 18:19:37 one Apr 11 18:19:54 hmm... Apr 11 18:20:20 hope "some time" comes soon... :) Apr 11 18:20:40 has anyone tried one of those slim dual sim adaptors? Apr 11 18:20:51 like you get off dodgy honk kong ppl on ebay? Apr 11 18:21:00 I have one in my 6310i, does the job Apr 11 18:21:41 why would you have two sim-cards? Apr 11 18:21:49 two networks. Apr 11 18:22:05 but why? :) Apr 11 18:22:15 better rates or coverage. Apr 11 18:22:57 or you're from one country but living in the other Apr 11 18:22:58 <- is Apr 11 18:23:01 zomg updatss :D Apr 11 18:23:08 yey! :) Apr 11 18:23:11 good news too Apr 11 18:23:19 anyone got any idea what freebies will be? :) Apr 11 18:23:53 ? Apr 11 18:23:56 * cb22 makes a note to check the store every hour Apr 11 18:23:57 one for telephony and other for internet access Apr 11 18:24:08 and to make sure i have my parents cc details on hand :p Apr 11 18:24:08 ok, that makes sense, SpeedEvil, somehow :) Apr 11 18:25:05 they still haven't completed pvt, so they won't have production for a while Apr 11 18:25:21 * doc|work wants now :o Apr 11 18:25:36 * ajbrun wants yesterday Apr 11 18:25:43 that too ;) Apr 11 18:25:45 and a cider Apr 11 18:26:05 * cb22 wants Apr 11 18:27:03 hopefully, that fact that they're looking at pricing and packaging now means that it shouldn't be too much longer now Apr 11 18:28:20 will freerunner has the same size and design of its ancestor? Apr 11 18:28:28 should do Apr 11 18:28:33 more or less Apr 11 18:28:49 take a look at planet.openmoko.org to see recent photos Apr 11 18:29:17 the 1973 looks very nice, but the screen is a little too small. Apr 11 18:29:20 i'l look Apr 11 18:29:29 but the screen res is good Apr 11 18:29:35 so i'm hoping it should even it out Apr 11 18:30:06 here's hoping gta03 is much more compact :) Apr 11 18:30:16 compact = smaller screen? Apr 11 18:30:30 *confused* Apr 11 18:30:33 no, less bulky, screen size is ok for a phone imo Apr 11 18:30:56 I want a bigger screen Apr 11 18:31:05 what size is it anyway? Apr 11 18:31:15 768x1024 minimum :p Apr 11 18:31:15 2.8'' Apr 11 18:31:16 2.8inch? Apr 11 18:31:18 * doc|work nods Apr 11 18:31:28 coudn't the screen be a little more larguer, and rounded at top/botton (to fill the phone size)? Apr 11 18:31:31 because it's so high res it should be ok Apr 11 18:31:34 why did they remove this silver-border-thingy? Apr 11 18:31:50 urlauber: I prefer it like it is now :) Apr 11 18:31:51 because it looks a lot hotter in all black? Apr 11 18:32:23 I liked it :) Apr 11 18:32:36 fuck no Apr 11 18:32:39 looks ugly Apr 11 18:32:53 i mean the all black looks ugly Apr 11 18:32:56 nah Apr 11 18:32:57 :) Apr 11 18:33:05 doc|home, i higher resolution on a small screen will just make things appear too small, dificult to read Apr 11 18:33:15 a higher* Apr 11 18:33:41 then again, I think the normal porsche cayenne looks ugly (chrome looks cheesy) but saw one today, cayenne GTS, all black, brushed alloys, looked really good. Apr 11 18:33:55 hehe Apr 11 18:34:22 SamuraiDio: well, look at the photos, looks pretty readable to me, guess we'll know soon enough :) Apr 11 18:35:04 sure, the 1973 resolution is enough for its screen size, i think... Apr 11 18:35:32 kdean06: To *me* you say "everyone else already knew that :-P" Apr 11 18:35:44 kdean06: To *steve* you say "Thanks for the info!" ;-P Apr 11 18:35:50 what much will it (freerunner) cost? Apr 11 18:36:05 SamuraiDio: check the community mailing list, more info there now Apr 11 18:36:12 uhun.. Apr 11 18:36:20 399 per unit or 369 per unit if you and people you know buy a batch of 10 Apr 11 18:36:34 wurp2, Notice I mentioned the info about the DEbug board too. :P There was more info in that message than just the $399 price. Apr 11 18:37:02 what are the freebies? :) Apr 11 18:37:09 Uh huh, and that's the info I was talking about in the msg where you said everyone else knew that :-) Apr 11 18:37:24 s/you said/you replied that/ Apr 11 18:37:24 wurp2 meant: Uh huh, and that's the info I was talking about in the msg where you replied that everyone else knew that :-) Apr 11 18:37:34 399? how much costs an iPhone (just for comparison)/ Apr 11 18:37:35 ? Apr 11 18:37:42 the same Apr 11 18:37:45 SamuraiDio: apple.com/whorephone Apr 11 18:38:05 SamuraiDio: less, I think Apr 11 18:38:16 but iphone doesn't have gps; it has a camera instead... Apr 11 18:38:18 btw, does 399 include delivery? Apr 11 18:38:29 doubt i Apr 11 18:38:31 it* Apr 11 18:38:33 And you can't hack on your iphone w/o fighting every sw update Apr 11 18:38:45 shame :/ hope they have better delivery options this time :/ Apr 11 18:38:55 SamuraiDio: last I heard, iphone was $300, I thought Apr 11 18:39:03 wurp2: and still way too locked down Apr 11 18:40:01 don't you think that Freerunner could be less costing... i know that a gps receiver could be expansive, but a multitouchscreen is not needed anyway, neither a camera... Apr 11 18:40:13 expensive* Apr 11 18:40:41 SamuraiDio: maybe, but if they make a profit they can actually develop gta03, if they don't, no gta03 for you :) Apr 11 18:41:05 hmm... sure... Apr 11 18:41:33 doc|home, but with a lesser price it would sell better... Apr 11 18:41:33 really, they need to be a success if open hardware is seen to be important Apr 11 18:41:52 $300 is a really good price! you can't get many smartphones for less Apr 11 18:41:59 edistar: 399 Apr 11 18:42:12 For now, $399 looks high for a phone that doesn't do much Apr 11 18:42:22 it doesn't do much? Apr 11 18:42:23 but it can do a lot Apr 11 18:42:25 ... Apr 11 18:42:40 surley it does more than most phones out there? Apr 11 18:42:45 I'm hoping once the base software is a stable platform & lots of other sw is ported or built, it will look like a great price Apr 11 18:42:49 but even 399 is still a great price, the iphone is 300 and you *have* to buy apps (if you want to go the official route) Apr 11 18:42:50 and will do a lot more with all the openness of it all Apr 11 18:42:56 ajbrun: Well, I can't consistenly get calls on it Apr 11 18:42:56 well, for me, i need to convert the price to my currency and add import costs (brazil here) unless someone bring it for me in the back pocket... Apr 11 18:43:03 wurp2 - that will change Apr 11 18:43:09 or sync it with my pc w/o doing technically advanced stuff Apr 11 18:43:11 that's NOW Apr 11 18:43:15 not THEN Apr 11 18:43:15 ajbrun: That was my point Apr 11 18:43:16 doc|work: oh..ok Apr 11 18:43:35 SamuraiDio, same here, but in south africa ^-^ Apr 11 18:43:38 but the point is that it's a dev phone Apr 11 18:43:38 I should have said "doesn't do much now" Apr 11 18:43:45 in a years time it'll be worth it Apr 11 18:43:49 I agree Apr 11 18:43:53 but you'd have already had the use of it a year Apr 11 18:43:59 so you've paid the same Apr 11 18:44:04 just got it a year early Apr 11 18:44:07 while in dev Apr 11 18:44:10 Of course, also the same hw will be much cheaper in a year Apr 11 18:44:19 wurp2: nope, inflation sucks :/ Apr 11 18:44:21 If you don't enjoy hacking on it, it is a bad buy right now Apr 11 18:44:34 then don't buy it if u think it's too much Apr 11 18:44:39 what functionality does it actually have now? Apr 11 18:44:40 * cb22__ <3s hacking Apr 11 18:44:41 doc|work: inflation is not 50% Apr 11 18:44:50 in fact, it has to have a good hardware, the software can be easly update/changed later... Apr 11 18:44:54 wurp2: neither is the profit margin Apr 11 18:44:57 doc|work: the neo? you can ring with it, sms with it Apr 11 18:45:04 edistar: good enough for me Apr 11 18:45:12 doc|work: Well, as long as you can handle babying it, it's a great gps & media player, and an acceptable phone Apr 11 18:45:15 doc|work: and write gtk/efl - python/C programs on it :) Apr 11 18:45:21 except for battery life Apr 11 18:45:27 And a fun programming platform Apr 11 18:45:57 battery life will improve, I just hope and hope :) Apr 11 18:46:01 * cb22__ thinks everyone who is active in this irc channel should get one for free :p Apr 11 18:46:03 and browse the web, if you can keep gprs limping, or use usb tether, or pand over bt Apr 11 18:46:13 cb22__: Let's take a vote on that Apr 11 18:46:15 cb22__: +1 :P Apr 11 18:46:37 wurp2, i'll host the poll, in my own custom designed poll software :p Apr 11 18:46:39 haha Apr 11 18:46:41 doc|work: grps works too afaik.. browser is written too Apr 11 18:46:59 wurp2, what do you mean by an acceptable phone? for me a phone just need need to make and receiva calls and sms, and keep a contact catalog... Apr 11 18:47:21 wurp2: flaky other software is fine once I can do the basics, not like I have too many people calling anyway. Oh, one feature I want is to have calls from certain numbers silently ignored. bank telemarketing-- :) Apr 11 18:47:22 SamuraiDio: I mean what you just said Apr 11 18:47:29 ehh Apr 11 18:47:32 o/ Apr 11 18:47:40 but on some images, I regularly lose gsm registration and it doesn't auto-re-register Apr 11 18:47:51 hmm... Apr 11 18:47:54 edistar: sweet, the browser is going to be a great thing, I have a nokia n800 now which is great for cafes and thigns Apr 11 18:48:21 doc|work: You can't do that (blocking calls) easily now on the man OM image. I think it would be easy on the underground image Apr 11 18:48:44 wurp2: sure, no great rush anyway, I'm sure they'll still be calling me every day in a month Apr 11 18:48:46 The 4/3 image has been good to me - I don't think I lose gsm registration on it Apr 11 18:48:47 ;) Apr 11 18:48:55 is it easy to flash/upgrade/install/etc? can any linux compatible app be installed on it? Apr 11 18:48:58 underground image? Apr 11 18:49:26 cb22__: What emdete and mickey|away have been working on Apr 11 18:49:39 some new dbus services, & mostly python stack Apr 11 18:50:02 doc|work: the browser is not super great though.. the maemo browser is better atm Apr 11 18:50:06 cb22__: Browse around the repositories and you'll find it, underground*.jffs2 or something Apr 11 18:50:20 ooh, interesting, thanks Apr 11 18:50:20 edistar: yeah, to be expected, although the maemo browser kinda sucks at times :) Apr 11 18:50:26 gtg for a bit, meeting Apr 11 18:50:31 bye Apr 11 18:50:45 doc|work: I only have a n770.. that's really slow ;) Apr 11 18:50:49 hehe Apr 11 18:52:09 I hope there will be a webkit + efl browser soon :> Apr 11 18:52:43 hrm, I need to look into generating cffi bindings for efl eventually Apr 11 19:07:57 edistar, that would be good Apr 11 19:20:50 good evening :) Apr 11 19:49:57 MichaelShiloh: I don't think I've seen you in here before! Apr 11 19:52:11 Does anyone know if there is definitely a firmware problem in the 01 gsm that interferes with resume on incoming call? Apr 11 19:53:02 I keep seeing people talk about hardware or firmware issues with resume/power management on the 01, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone say just what that problem would be, other than rumors about firmware problems with gsm resume. Apr 11 19:54:43 wurp2, hmm Apr 11 19:54:55 wurp2, yes I think there are hardware issues Apr 11 19:55:09 but, you need to get some authorative answers Apr 11 19:55:31 I guess it will be hard to get a company to admit their product was flawed though! Apr 11 19:57:47 Well, we all knew there might be issues Apr 11 19:58:38 thos: You have an 02? Apr 11 19:58:40 wurp2: To give OM the benefit of the doubt, I think the issue is that there is no simple "yes/no" answer to that question. Apr 11 19:58:50 Sure Apr 11 19:59:01 There are - as far as I know - no significant power problems in the hardware - other than the GSM modem firmware not going all the way to sleep thing. Apr 11 19:59:03 wurp2: As I understand it, OM have modified the firmware on the GSM to address the shortcomings of the phone hardware or CPU Apr 11 19:59:20 mwester: But I would LOVE to know whether using suspend/resume to get > 2 days standby, with wake on incoming call or sms, was possible Apr 11 19:59:21 Which at worst leads to a 30mA drain - and hence a 40h best case battery life. Apr 11 19:59:36 wurp2: not with the standard shipped GSM firmware. Apr 11 19:59:37 wurp2: Specifically dealing with the interrupt handling. I think they are still messing about with this as of some weeks ago, so it's far from resolved IMO. Apr 11 19:59:50 SpeedEvil: Ah, so the issue is that it won't properly sleep deeply Apr 11 20:00:02 the (iirc) < .7 mA sleep Apr 11 20:00:15 .7mA sounds a bit low Apr 11 20:00:22 but it's well under teh existing 30. Apr 11 20:02:29 gg depleted uranium buy Apr 11 20:02:32 oops Apr 11 20:02:58 what's the battery lifetime now anyway? Apr 11 20:03:03 4-5 hours :-( Apr 11 20:03:08 on the gta02? Apr 11 20:03:10 I mean, of course it depends on how you use it Apr 11 20:03:14 No idea on 02 Apr 11 20:03:59 4-12 hours Apr 11 20:04:15 o.O Apr 11 20:04:35 12 is underclocking and mostly idle. Apr 11 20:05:06 thos: I gave you some gtk theme feedback in the comments of your blog. Apr 11 20:05:08 SpeedEvil: underclocking? They have cpufreq working on 02? Apr 11 20:05:23 01 Apr 11 20:05:37 and not properly. Apr 11 20:05:44 Using u-boot Apr 11 20:06:08 ah Apr 11 20:06:52 doc|work: afaik that's what any smartphone's life will look like if you don't have good pm sw Apr 11 20:07:29 that's pretty terrible :/ Apr 11 20:08:20 yep Apr 11 20:08:27 pm software is very important Apr 11 20:08:34 (and good pm supporting hw) Apr 11 20:08:58 right after you have the basic phone functionality actually consistently working ;-) Apr 11 20:09:04 aye, thought they had a lot of that sorted? :/ Apr 11 20:10:58 Well, periodically I will get an image that loses network reg and doesn't reacquire automatically Apr 11 20:11:20 Not a problem with the 4/3 release, I don't think, but I had issues no more than 2-3 weeks before that Apr 11 20:11:44 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management for more info Apr 11 20:11:45 It is WAY better than it was a couple of months ago, which is much better than it was 6 months ago Apr 11 20:11:51 (not updated recently) Apr 11 20:12:04 Yeah, but that doesn't say much about deep sleep power draw by gsm Apr 11 20:13:18 No. Apr 11 20:13:35 That's not something that can be fixed by mere users. Apr 11 20:13:46 (who have not downloaded the calypso PDFs) Apr 11 20:14:07 And hacked together new firmware & installer... Apr 11 20:15:51 SpeedEvil, why exactly do you want to buy depleted uranium :p Apr 11 20:16:54 To build rounds that will penetrate tank armor, of course! Apr 11 20:17:12 Or to work on his cyborg suit, one of the two Apr 11 20:17:15 ah yes, of course Apr 11 20:17:43 quicksand, yes, I saw, thanks! Apr 11 20:17:48 quicksand, I even replied :-) Apr 11 20:18:02 hi Apr 11 20:18:07 quicksand, I had noticed the notification text colour issues too Apr 11 20:28:55 thos: Oh, I hadn't been back since I posted the small addition. :-) Apr 11 20:30:00 You might remember that I did some poking around on your old Moko theme, months ago. Apr 11 20:30:09 Highly premature bug filing: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=903 Apr 11 20:49:42 hmm should I need to anything more than set the SRC_URI and 'inherit autotools' to make an autotools using package build with bitbake? Apr 11 20:50:01 for some reason it keeps failing because the do_configure stuff decides there is no configure script depsite there being one Apr 11 21:00:17 unknown_lamer: Sounds fine to me. Did you try the autotools cycle manually already? Apr 11 21:02:52 abraxa_: yes it works for a native install Apr 11 21:03:01 I'm not sure how I'd go about manually cross compiling Apr 11 21:03:27 the test -x "${S}/configure" fails so it logs "NOTE: nothing to configure" Apr 11 21:03:28 cb22: I was considering it for use in glazes on pottery. Apr 11 21:03:38 and yet there is a configure Apr 11 21:04:09 unknown_lamer: What do you have in your .bb? Apr 11 21:04:20 DESCRIPTION = "ffcall library for clisp" Apr 11 21:04:20 SRC_URI = "file:///home/clinton/src/cvs/ffcall.tar.gz" Apr 11 21:04:20 inherit autotools Apr 11 21:04:41 before I was using the ffcall/ cvs dir directly (it does have the configure script in the checkout) Apr 11 21:04:45 and configure is +x Apr 11 21:05:27 that extracts into ffcall/ does bitbake assume some naming scheme for the source dir? Apr 11 21:05:32 You're trying to build lisp? Perhaps if you add some more parens to the bb file in random places? ;) Apr 11 21:06:08 unknown_lamer: What baffles me is that you say configure exists but bitbake says it doesn't Apr 11 21:06:30 I'm thinking maybe if I rename the directory it extracts to to ffcall-1.0 (not dealing with src revs yet) it might work judging from other packags Apr 11 21:06:44 damn you underdocumented bitbake Apr 11 21:07:02 I wonder if you can simply look at the value of $S somehow Apr 11 21:07:21 It should be present in expanded form in the log files. Apr 11 21:07:29 Good point Apr 11 21:07:56 I tried adding ffcall_do_configure { oenote "S = ${S}" } but no dice Apr 11 21:08:25 and I dunno have to grab env vars from python as the only python I know is what I picked up doing simple programs for two weeks in CS331 Apr 11 21:08:44 unless the docs for addtask lie and I can use shell functions with it? Apr 11 21:09:40 the docs spend an awful lot of time going over really dumb things and then just don't document the useful parts! Apr 11 21:09:52 Can you not find something comparable in the set of bitbake recipes to just copy? Apr 11 21:09:55 Who needs a ten line example for appending strings ... anyone who does might want to not be a programmer Apr 11 21:10:20 I did that :-) I looked at a bunch of autotools using packages and it seems that I am doing the correct thing Apr 11 21:10:29 aha! it *was* the filename Apr 11 21:10:46 damn bitbake why can't it be smart enough to detect that the tarball unpacks to a different name that it expects Apr 11 21:10:53 unknown_lamer: Do you have anything in build/tmp/work/.../ffcall-.../temp/? Apr 11 21:11:01 Oh, it works now Apr 11 21:11:02 ? Apr 11 21:11:19 yeah I renamed ffcall/ to ffcall-1.0/ Apr 11 21:11:22 unknown_lamer: Heh. So did you just change the value of ${S}? Apr 11 21:11:24 Oh good Apr 11 21:11:38 and then magically it worked except now it wants to run autoreconf which breaks the configure script Apr 11 21:12:23 Never mind, I see Apr 11 21:13:26 and of course there is no way to make it not do that Apr 11 21:13:44 No, that's by design. Apr 11 21:14:04 There's a way to do it, but you need to override the autoconf stuff in bitbake to make it *not* do that. Apr 11 21:14:29 (I have no idea where I saw a bitbake file that does that, but it's done by at least one ) Apr 11 21:15:15 mwester: I know what you mean -- I have read SO MANY bb files (the only really useful documentation there is) that it's hard to remember what's what Apr 11 21:17:08 I think if I set PN to something? Apr 11 21:17:29 I do love how nothing is documented and the variable names tend to be two letters long Apr 11 21:17:41 unknown_lamer: Have you read the OE manual? Apr 11 21:17:42 I want my common lisp with its friendly multiple-value-bind and friends Apr 11 21:17:49 It's got most of the basics. Apr 11 21:17:58 yes but it doesn't document anything but the very rudimentary basics Apr 11 21:18:15 and then in the more useful parts "todo: write" ... Apr 11 21:18:36 oh I see PN is ... package name Apr 11 21:19:23 Yeah, but it does document variable names. Apr 11 21:25:22 hihi my moko resums from sleep :) Apr 11 21:25:30 bah the ffcall configure stuff is hairy Apr 11 21:28:01 oh sweet, we know pricing etc. for FreeRunner Apr 11 21:30:10 seems so Apr 11 21:30:20 need to gather up a crew of 10 :) Apr 11 21:31:05 I suppose there will be some shipping saving on the 10 too Apr 11 21:33:03 anyone in the US(north east) wanna go in on a pack of 10? Apr 11 21:34:03 rather premature, don't you think? Apr 11 21:35:12 why? Apr 11 21:35:26 it's just called early planning Apr 11 21:35:37 * SpeedEvil orders -2147483638. Apr 11 21:36:12 you might want to wait until details are out Apr 11 21:36:16 "_ Apr 11 21:36:33 Yeah. Apr 11 21:36:41 :) Apr 11 21:36:45 Due to a spec error, the first batch come with 28" screens. Apr 11 21:36:51 hahaha Apr 11 21:37:14 somehow i see it unlikely we will be smart enough to take a single order and batch it into 1 shipment, thus saving u money Apr 11 21:37:25 chanes are - u order 10, and 10 shipments (separate) will occur Apr 11 21:38:21 raster: that sounds like a terrible process Apr 11 21:38:30 Many places do this. Apr 11 21:38:44 Alas. Apr 11 21:38:50 summatusmentis: doing otherwise highy clomplicates thing Apr 11 21:39:09 u have to be a very sophisitcate ddistributor before u start being that smart Apr 11 21:39:15 raster: why? how is tying the order to quantity that difficult? Apr 11 21:39:17 and frankly - we barely know how to distribute Apr 11 21:39:23 we are NOTa sohpisitaced one Apr 11 21:39:27 yoyo: Your resume works consistently? Apr 11 21:39:32 How did you get it working? Apr 11 21:39:34 Ship me them all, I'll sell them on ebay. Job done. Apr 11 21:39:54 wurp2: one moment I'w resume it :) Apr 11 21:40:52 raster: that's a bit ridiculous :/ Apr 11 21:41:02 * summatusmentis schemes about selling his Zaurus Apr 11 21:41:24 doc|work: not really Apr 11 21:41:32 wurp2: http://blog.rot13.org/2007/09/openmoko_as_a_phone.html << chk Apr 11 21:41:38 as it makes packaging of shipoed items easy Apr 11 21:41:39 doc|home: all you need for the first case is a label printer, and a pile of pre-wrapped boxes. Apr 11 21:41:45 everything goes into the 1 same-sized box Apr 11 21:42:11 doc|home: A label comes out of the printer, an operative picks up the label, affixes it to the package, and takes it to the post office. Apr 11 21:42:32 It eliminates the whole 'picking' step, and you can't get the numbers of items in the box wrong. Apr 11 21:43:00 * * OM Bug 1337 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de Apr 11 21:43:01 * * Keyboard is unusable Apr 11 21:43:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1337 Apr 11 21:43:05 yoyo: So just changing the boot parameters made resume work consistently? What image are you using? Apr 11 21:43:54 we havce improved since gta01 - we actually have distribution centers Apr 11 21:43:55 wurp2: present Apr 11 21:43:56 Not to mention the accounting problems caused by multiple shipments, with exchange rates possibly shifting as the order is satisfied... Apr 11 21:43:58 1 for usa, 1 for europe Apr 11 21:44:11 so we're not couriering direct from taiwan Apr 11 21:44:32 but i doubt u'll see use amalgamate orders into 1 shipment and 1 shipping cost Apr 11 21:44:43 yoyo: That is awesome! I know what I'm doing tomorrow morning... Apr 11 21:45:55 we would need to have multiple packing boxes Apr 11 21:46:00 pack on-demand Apr 11 21:46:22 calculate shipping as a combo of packing box(es) chosen, how many items in them (weight) etc. Apr 11 21:46:37 and then have the distrubiton centers re-pack differently per customer Apr 11 21:46:41 it is of course all possible Apr 11 21:46:47 but i doubt we will be doing that Apr 11 21:47:01 * * OM Bug 1338 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de Apr 11 21:47:02 * * Font is a way to big Apr 11 21:47:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1338 Apr 11 21:47:10 yoyo: can you be more specific? I notice from the blog entry that it looks like that's with a kernel from August of 2007 - is that still what you are using? Apr 11 21:47:50 tho frankly - i dont know what it is we are doing Apr 11 21:47:55 not my department Apr 11 21:47:55 :) Apr 11 21:47:57 What is this plus sign in the right top corner, left to the X sign in the openmoko-webbrowser? Apr 11 21:48:27 mwester: I have 2.4.24-git kernel and it more often work then don't Apr 11 21:48:37 And, wasn't there kinetic-scrolling in the webbrowser? Apr 11 21:48:45 mwester: resuming I mean Apr 11 21:48:55 What key do you use to resume? Apr 11 21:49:13 mwester: top left Apr 11 21:49:26 Hmmm.... totally broken for me. Apr 11 21:49:26 Aux. Apr 11 21:49:41 * SpeedEvil wishes for actual regression testing. Apr 11 21:50:02 yoyo: Ah, so when you say latest image, you just mean jffs2 Apr 11 21:50:13 but I thought the latest image wouldn't work with a 2.4.24 kernel... Apr 11 21:50:38 SpeedEvil: it's not hard to count :) and all you need is to set up two delivery packages with your vendor, 1x size and 10x size. Apr 11 21:51:27 doc|home: you need a more expensive shipping-monkey. Apr 11 21:51:50 SpeedEvil: so you have to pay more to find someone who can count as well as read? :) Apr 11 21:51:56 " tho frankly - i dont know what it is we are doing" <~ I love how I can totally pull that out of context and quote you on it ;) Apr 11 21:51:56 wurp2: root@fic-gta01:~# uname -a Apr 11 21:51:56 Linux fic-gta01 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Sat Mar 22 00:46:15 UTC 2008 armv4tl unknown Apr 11 21:52:20 abraxa_: HAHAHAHAHA Apr 11 21:52:34 doc|home: they don't need to read. Apr 11 21:52:51 abraxa_, :P Apr 11 21:52:52 doc|home: a label comes out, they put it on the package, you drop it in the mailbox. Apr 11 21:52:53 SpeedEvil: man, really scraping the bottom of the barrel there, what is it we're paying for? :) Apr 11 21:52:58 yoyo: cool Apr 11 21:53:53 yoyo: It looked as if you told mwester earlier that you were using 2.4.24 Apr 11 21:55:01 Android - http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/57931/1207820132/android.jpg Apr 11 21:55:05 wurp2: sory my error Apr 11 21:55:38 yoyo: np :-) Apr 11 21:56:27 yoyo: this blog entry helps me too, but only for using modem after resume! :D Apr 11 21:56:45 but after all, it sometimes still hangs on resume :-( Apr 11 21:57:17 :-( Apr 11 21:57:36 yoyo: how is yours? Apr 11 21:58:33 RedDog: Are you using AUX or Power to resume? Apr 11 21:58:51 i gladly would try to view kernel prints on rs232, but i don't have a cable for it ... Apr 11 21:58:53 Or a phone call? Apr 11 21:59:03 ;-) Apr 11 21:59:11 wurp2: all three ;-)! but power button works only once... Apr 11 21:59:20 RedDog: no. I don't have second sim card Apr 11 21:59:24 OK, I was just wondering which was failing sometimes Apr 11 21:59:35 wurp2: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=79#c11 Apr 11 22:00:05 yoyo: i mean: does your neo sometimes crash on resume? Apr 11 22:00:31 RedDog: from time to time. but less often Apr 11 22:00:38 wurp2: I knew it failed sometimes with default boot param Apr 11 22:00:43 Ah, that answers that question :-) Apr 11 22:01:20 I thought yoyo was saying earlier that this fixed resume flakiness too, and I wanted to make sure you were resuming the same way he is so we're all talking about the same thing Apr 11 22:01:37 does anybody know how i can connect my rs232 on pc with neo without debug board? Apr 11 22:01:56 I didn't think you could Apr 11 22:02:04 the resume failure is on all three the same ... Apr 11 22:02:06 But I would be glad to be corrected Apr 11 22:02:07 wurp2: why not? Apr 11 22:02:17 Where is rs232 on the neo? Apr 11 22:02:18 RedDog: you basically can't. Apr 11 22:02:27 RedDog: unless you're willing to do some soldering. Apr 11 22:02:34 I thought w/o the debug board hooked up, you don't really have access to it Apr 11 22:02:54 SpeedEvil: couldn't i press some thin wire in the debug-port on the neo side? Apr 11 22:03:01 No. Apr 11 22:03:08 RedDog: The resume failure isn't exactly the same - aux & power behave differently Apr 11 22:03:11 there are elevenyty-one connectors in there. Apr 11 22:03:26 wurp2: but it hangs on both! :( Apr 11 22:03:42 SpeedEvil: i need only two, or not? Apr 11 22:03:54 RedDog: But it hangs differently on each Apr 11 22:03:57 respawn: you can't poke wires that accurately. Apr 11 22:03:59 red: Apr 11 22:04:13 RedDog: And some releases don't resume at all on aux, but I think that was intentional Apr 11 22:04:22 let's say i have the cable to connect debug board to neo, can't i tune this cable? Apr 11 22:04:25 or maybe they didn't resume on power, not 100% sure Apr 11 22:04:39 RedDog: yes - you'd just need a level converter. Apr 11 22:04:55 RedDog: but you run into the same problem - the cable ends are insanely dense. Apr 11 22:04:56 wurp2: that are only phones wich weren't sold Apr 11 22:05:11 Anyway, the fact that it hangs differently on each made me think a fix might work for one but not the other, but it doesn't, so I'll shut up now Apr 11 22:05:34 but with level converter (wich one?) and very very good iron skills it is possible? Apr 11 22:05:39 RedDog: Nah, it was a kernel update someone did a few weeks back that ignored one of the interrupts Apr 11 22:05:44 yes - in principle. Apr 11 22:06:13 wurp2: yes, but i got reverted because of this old devices! Apr 11 22:06:40 SpeedEvil: nice, do you know wich level converter would be fine? max232? Apr 11 22:07:00 probably, yes. Apr 11 22:07:11 rs232 was 0 to 5 volts? and neo has? Apr 11 22:07:18 or am i wrong? Apr 11 22:07:25 RedDog: yes Apr 11 22:07:38 how is it right? Apr 11 22:08:25 The neo has 0-3.3V serial. RS232 (classical) is -12/12 Apr 11 22:08:45 wow ... -12/12 .. shure? Apr 11 22:08:53 yes Apr 11 22:08:58 It was designed in the 60s? Apr 11 22:09:59 ok... and today it is still the best ;) Apr 11 22:10:01 you could just use one of the ftdi usb serial converters for this Apr 11 22:10:09 there are a few premade modules Apr 11 22:10:42 my pc as 4 nativ rs232, why not use them? Apr 11 22:10:52 Becasue it will kill the neo Apr 11 22:10:59 they will output +-12 - or may Apr 11 22:11:08 and a max232 could be in the boxes next to me ;) Apr 11 22:11:16 later guys; have a good weekend! Apr 11 22:11:19 shure, only with converter!! Apr 11 22:12:39 It was designed in the 60s? <--- designed is an overstatement here :> Apr 11 22:12:45 it just came into being :> Apr 11 22:13:15 I've always preferred 20 mAmp current loop. Apr 11 22:14:21 max232 is for 0..5V devices, neo has 0-3.3V ... ok, need a different one ... what are these ftdi - usb serial converters? Apr 11 22:14:51 3.3V on one end, 5V USB B connector on the other Apr 11 22:14:58 chip is powered though USB Apr 11 22:15:20 have you any name? Apr 11 22:15:23 they're expensive though Apr 11 22:15:27 one sev Apr 11 22:15:28 sec Apr 11 22:15:30 ouh ... Apr 11 22:15:49 http://www.dontronics-shop.com/FTDI-p-1-c-321.html Apr 11 22:16:04 thanks .. Apr 11 22:16:53 very nice ... and 15 euros are okey, i think ... Apr 11 22:17:42 RedDog: why do you want serial? Apr 11 22:18:12 SpeedEvil: because i hope to see there some more kernel message about resuming .. Apr 11 22:19:35 not possible? should i kill my dream of a resuming neo? Apr 11 22:20:18 RedDog: Not possible without a debug board. And even with a debug board, you cannot see any messages if gsmd is running. Apr 11 22:21:04 I would say not possible is a _little_ strong. Apr 11 22:21:23 * cb22 thinks depleted uranium is stronger :p Apr 11 22:21:38 mwester: why only with debug board? what can this jtag helps me more than a rs232 connection Apr 11 22:21:41 ? Apr 11 22:22:00 More related - would there be any use of getting a debug board for freerunner? Apr 11 22:22:05 The problem is the connection is hard to make physically. Apr 11 22:22:12 cbrake_away: yes - but limited. Apr 11 22:22:14 Ok, for the purists such as SpeedEvil, I'll qualify that: You cannot gain access to the serial port without a debug board, UNLESS you have surface-mount soldering gear and the ability to use it. Apr 11 22:22:36 mwester: what I was about to say Apr 11 22:23:29 couldn't you just use the ribbon? Apr 11 22:23:41 does this helps? http://www.ersatzteil.justone-schnepel.de/assets/images/Flachbandkabel-13.jpg Apr 11 22:24:39 cb22: I don't know how you would solder to the ribbon, and if you used a connector, you would have to solder to the connector, which gets back to SMT soldering equipment. Unless SpeedEvil has some other ideas. Apr 11 22:25:00 There are I think solderpads on the board. Apr 11 22:25:16 I can't find a clear image and I've lost my torx screwdriver of hte right sixe. Apr 11 22:25:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/4/45/Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg Apr 11 22:25:43 doen't look unsolderable for me! ;) Apr 11 22:25:46 mwester: pfft, i dont need smt soldering gear, just give me a blowtorch and some red bull Apr 11 22:25:58 * josch helps Apr 11 22:26:11 RedDog: go for it. Apr 11 22:26:12 to solder something to this cable is simple, you just cut between the pins... Apr 11 22:26:12 * doc|work thieves cb22's wings Apr 11 22:26:23 josch: i didnt ask for a camisole :p Apr 11 22:26:32 RedDog: you realise the scale on that? Apr 11 22:26:49 cb22, you wont get mine anyway :P Apr 11 22:27:12 SpeedEvil: think so, but not shure .. Apr 11 22:27:36 RedDog: IIRC the connector is about 12mm long Apr 11 22:27:47 sleep time Apr 11 22:27:47 oh, i thought you were giving it to your gf. well, each to his own i guess, if you like wearing camisoles... Apr 11 22:27:47 but the only other option i have is to get a debug board ... but where should i get only a debug board for a low price? Apr 11 22:27:48 sija Apr 11 22:33:43 cb22 misunderstands what josch sais on purpose it seems... :P Apr 11 22:36:23 josch: He's just making suuuuuuure. Apr 11 22:36:50 o hai abraxa_ Apr 11 22:37:02 before this escalates again... Apr 11 22:37:08 i'm going to bed ^^ Apr 11 22:38:54 .oO(Mission Accomplished) Apr 11 22:53:15 bye ! :> Apr 11 22:53:35 just opened the case ... wow really difficult! Apr 11 22:54:16 Pretty nicely designed for hackers, no Apr 11 22:54:17 ? Apr 11 22:55:07 * SpeedEvil wishes for one little connector. Apr 11 22:56:03 * mwester loves the idea they discussed for the 03 -- putting the debug board components on the phone, and a USB connector to replace the debug connector. Apr 11 22:56:34 mwester: You mean SpeedEvil's post about adding a low-power CPU? Apr 11 22:57:41 abraxa_: No, earlier than that they discussed putting the USB/serial chip on the phone with a micro connector on-phone, that would do everything the debug board does, and eliminate the need for the backup flash stuff on the 02. Great idea. Apr 11 22:57:43 That CPU is moderately high power - but it buys quite a lot in terms of functionality - 8mA at 2V minimum operating. Apr 11 22:58:14 I don't see the point. You can use the main connector with a small MCU. Apr 11 22:58:23 The point of what? Apr 11 22:58:48 Adding debug components that are only debug components. Apr 11 22:59:08 SpeedEvil: I do like the idea as well, except two parts: battery drainage and the issue of updating that CPU's code Apr 11 22:59:33 It eliminates the need for the debug connector, and half of the flash. Elminates the backup copy of uboot, and all the crud that goes along with it. Apr 11 22:59:34 That particular CPU has a serial bootloader. Apr 11 23:00:13 hmm... i need such a cable... or ... a debug board ... Apr 11 23:00:19 I think we're talking multiple things here; I refer to proposed changes that predate the second CPU thing... Apr 11 23:00:49 The addition of the usb/serial chip would have no negative power implications. Apr 11 23:01:11 mwester: in some ways I'd be arguing for throwing out things. The second accelerometer. The battery meter. Apr 11 23:01:33 GPS Apr 11 23:02:02 GSM ... Apr 11 23:02:29 Glamo! Apr 11 23:02:32 I'd certainly rather lose the GSM than the GPS. Apr 11 23:02:33 :D Might as well, none of the GSMs shipped to date have been particularly heavily used, in terms of phone use anyway! Apr 11 23:02:54 ;) 'course fixing the software and suspect/resume might correct that... Apr 11 23:03:09 mwester: right ... Apr 11 23:03:22 suspect/resume is a nice way to phrase it. Apr 11 23:03:24 so let's get this damn resume work! ;) Apr 11 23:05:49 rtm: :o oops, freudian slip! Apr 11 23:06:23 RedDog: That's what I was working on, until I got distracted by that silly Windows RNDIS problem. Apr 11 23:06:47 But in a strange way, I really do enjoy all the pretty colors the LCD cycles through when resume fails... Apr 11 23:07:20 no, i'm not ... Apr 11 23:07:38 mwester: you have a debug board, right? Apr 11 23:10:23 can I have a phone now? :( Apr 11 23:10:52 doc|work: any phone you want.. save the gta02 Apr 11 23:13:05 RedDog: Yes Apr 11 23:14:36 did you look on the serial console on resume? Apr 11 23:16:01 Yep. Not too much helpful information just yet. Apr 11 23:34:56 ok, have to go to bed now ... Apr 12 00:06:29 Hi guys. Just a newbie question regarding openmoko: is it a software platform like android, or are there open source hardware components with it? Apr 12 00:07:15 I wanted to add openmoko to dmoz (Open Directory Project) but I'm having a hard time to find the right category so you help would be appreciated Apr 12 00:07:31 stegozor: hardware too, you have complete control of the device, bar some firmware Apr 12 00:07:42 afaik Apr 12 00:07:49 openmoko the company, openmoko the software platform, neo1973/freerunner hardware project from openmoko with opensource in mind. Apr 12 00:08:03 while the andriod platform can still be locked down by the providers if they so choose last I heard Apr 12 00:09:00 if I am not mistaken they probably can do the same with openmoko if the customize the OS Apr 12 00:09:30 The Openmoko folks really do seem to release every bit of information they can, without violating nondisclosure agreements. Apr 12 00:09:34 sure, but then you can flash it Apr 12 00:10:11 I thought he was only wondering about naming schemes. :) Apr 12 00:10:17 stegozor: that's much the same as saying dell lock down their computers, yet you can always install an OS over the one dell install Apr 12 00:11:04 sorry for bothering you with that but I don't even have a GSM, I still stick with my pager ;) Apr 12 00:11:27 * stegozor is looking at candidate categories Apr 12 00:11:28 ... Apr 12 00:11:56 You came to the right place - many neo1973 owners don't have GSM yet either. Apr 12 00:12:11 hah Apr 12 00:12:20 Sorry - it was a cheap shot. Apr 12 00:12:30 in fairness, they *were* warned :) Apr 12 00:13:18 I'm very happy with my neo. Apr 12 00:14:08 yay, it will go under http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Systems/Handhelds/Open_Source/ Apr 12 00:29:52 OK, published. Feel free to suggest changes and/or improvements to my description :) Apr 12 00:32:08 stegozor: That looks fine, but you might want to mention it's linux based. Apr 12 00:34:42 quite right. Apr 12 00:35:00 it uses more than simply the linux kernel, doesn't it? Apr 12 00:35:16 I mean, also GNU apps such as the package manager Apr 12 00:35:42 Well, sure. You wouldn't have much of a product which just the kernel. Apr 12 00:36:02 It would boot quickly. though. Apr 12 00:36:17 rtm: depends on your market Apr 12 00:36:31 There are probably 3-4 people out there who wouldn't mind having only a kernel.. Apr 12 00:36:47 heh, gnu/linux or linux i take it? Apr 12 00:37:11 exactly ;) Apr 12 00:37:33 You might need to refresh your cache, the new description is live Apr 12 00:38:30 stegozor: Great! I'd never heard of Open Directory before. Apr 12 00:38:56 simple, you're not a lamer when it comes to coding Apr 12 00:39:59 I wanted to contribute to something open source. Since coding is not really what I do best, and because I'm a lazy guy, I volunteered at dmoz Apr 12 00:41:00 Google borrows site descriptions from dmoz when possible, so this one will probably appear on their search result in a month or so. Apr 12 00:41:08 thank you for your help guys, and good luck with this project. It would be nice if my first GSM was a free one :) Apr 12 00:41:14 I think people who are not coders can contribute a lot to open source projects by running new open source code, and reporting the problems they run into. Apr 12 00:41:57 that's what I'm doing with some mozilla extensions I like along with translations Apr 12 00:46:43 good night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 12 02:59:56 2008