**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 13 02:59:57 2008 Apr 13 04:31:25 hi Sup3rkiddo Apr 13 04:32:07 summatusmentis, re Apr 13 04:32:20 how goes it? Apr 13 04:32:21 summatusmentis, any change in your apps? :P Apr 13 04:32:28 summatusmentis, it goes fine Apr 13 04:32:28 not really Apr 13 04:32:47 what about you? heard anything? Apr 13 04:33:01 summatusmentis, nada, zilch... Apr 13 04:33:37 yeah, I'm probably gonna go w/ the other org I applied to, they told me they'd give me a position Apr 13 04:33:51 I haven't heard anything from OM yet, and this other org is wanting an answer Apr 13 04:34:55 summatusmentis, wow, nice..i guess we will prolly wait,,,OM guys are busy afterall Apr 13 04:35:32 yeah, they are, I know. I just didn't want to risk not getting any position Apr 13 04:36:03 summatusmentis, sounds fair Apr 13 04:36:19 summatusmentis, the other one was for OpenAFS? Apr 13 04:36:26 Sup3rkiddo: that's my theory. Yeah, it was Apr 13 04:37:04 might be through GSoC, or it might be that they hire some students outside of GSoC for the summer Apr 13 04:38:09 ah ok Apr 13 04:38:24 what about ophoned... Apr 13 04:38:36 what do you mean? Apr 13 04:39:19 summatusmentis, applied for ophoned? Apr 13 04:39:31 I did, that's true Apr 13 04:39:40 cool..:D Apr 13 04:39:50 oh wait, no, I applied for odeviced Apr 13 04:39:52 the more the apps, the more the slots Apr 13 04:39:52 sorry Apr 13 04:39:55 bleh Apr 13 04:40:21 OM got 62 apps, afaik, and ~10 slots? Apr 13 04:40:28 at least, preliminarily Apr 13 04:40:35 woohoo..10 slots is big Apr 13 04:40:39 brb..gotts bath Apr 13 04:41:07 I may be mistaken about slots #, but that's what I heard Apr 13 06:13:15 holy moly qtopia is polished Apr 13 06:16:33 * josch would wish it to be germanished instead :-D Apr 13 06:20:24 lol Apr 13 06:20:32 though, the sound quality is still poor Apr 13 06:20:52 might just be the gta01v4 hardware Apr 13 07:42:59 good morning Apr 13 08:00:53 Hi! Stupid question :-) when will be able buy new Neo FreeRunner? Any timeline? Apr 13 08:01:30 No. Apr 13 08:01:31 m4r3k: no time just yet. Phones are in production testing stage, so they can optimise yield Apr 13 08:01:52 SpeedEvil: shit man, terse aren't you? :) Apr 13 08:02:16 No. Apr 13 08:02:23 ok. Apr 13 08:02:29 He's efficient. Apr 13 08:02:42 so is a kick in the crotch Apr 13 08:02:56 Both have there place. Apr 13 08:03:16 Ooops - "their place" Apr 13 08:03:29 * doc|home tuts disapprovingly at rtm's grammar Apr 13 08:03:31 ;) Apr 13 08:04:15 If I were as pithy as SpeedEvil, I'd make fewer mistakes. Apr 13 08:04:42 It's 9AM. And I'm low on coffee. Apr 13 08:10:42 :'-( Apr 13 08:19:39 Both have there place. <--- rofl ... *zing* Apr 13 08:22:06 BTW i can translate UI to czech language... where i can get po files? Are translation welcome at this time? Apr 13 08:42:50 is some i/opkg guru around? i assume `grep Package: /usr/lib/ipkg/status | uniq -cd` should give no output (packages should be uniq in there) but i often see that packages are dublicated in the file... Apr 13 11:24:45 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r191 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX: Apr 13 11:24:45 freesmartphone.org: added GetPower Apr 13 11:24:45 freesmartphone.org: fixed names to conform dbus-conventions Apr 13 11:24:45 freesmartphone.org: added annotation for c interface generation with c-name-conventions Apr 13 11:41:40 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r192 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX: fixed typo Apr 13 11:54:20 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r193 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/ (6 files in 2 dirs): new names conforming org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX Apr 13 12:25:50 ooh, someone put up a screenshot of one of my encoded videos playing Apr 13 12:29:44 Fame! Apr 13 12:35:09 Hello! Will be FreeRunner available officially in Poland? Apr 13 12:41:23 J-23: You will be able to order it anywhere Apr 13 15:48:54 good morning Apr 13 15:49:05 good morning Apr 13 15:49:12 released at some time ? Apr 13 15:49:13 LOL Apr 13 15:59:30 CVirus: More like 1 year long april fools joke. Apr 13 16:01:05 * Basheri holds his breath till Freerunner gets released Apr 13 16:01:13 same Apr 13 16:01:45 Same here, post boned, my mp3 mplayer and phone upgrade for a while now... Apr 13 16:01:47 you can hold your breath for, like, months? Apr 13 16:02:33 Kero: It's and old saying, don't be a jerk about it. Apr 13 16:02:45 lol Apr 13 16:09:48 maybe we will not wait months Apr 13 16:10:39 i found that on the community list: Usually this means just weeks and no longer months until sales can start. (from Nikolaus Schaller on 8 april) Apr 13 16:23:15 pyknite: Lets hope so, but I doubt. Apr 13 16:25:23 I'm cautiously optimistic Apr 13 16:37:54 hello Apr 13 16:38:04 is anyone doing a 10pack in the UK? Apr 13 16:40:00 im drinking a 6pack right now Apr 13 16:40:21 that reminds me i have a beer in the freezer.. Apr 13 16:40:39 also do we know the uk /euro pricing yet? Apr 13 16:41:05 vapour has no price Apr 13 16:41:31 * gambler puts on some 2pac Apr 13 16:41:59 okay.. Apr 13 16:42:28 just wondering, have there been any hacks on making neo work with the gnome-phone-manager and friends? Apr 13 16:50:33 webjames there are quite a few Neo owners in the UK so i bet quite a few orders for the Freerunner....so should be possible Apr 13 16:51:03 awesome Apr 13 16:51:28 webjames worth sticking your name down on the wiki in local groups anyway to see who is about where etc Apr 13 16:51:54 okay, i'll do that, thanks Apr 13 17:03:02 sounds good, i'm lookingforward to this, my mate just got some LG phone and it's crap so... Apr 13 17:16:27 * cb22 wants freerunner Apr 13 17:16:35 * freerunner wants cb22 Apr 13 17:18:21 but only in Soviet Russia Apr 13 17:20:42 Heh, 'In Soviet Russia, FreeRunner buy you!' Apr 13 17:20:54 lol Apr 13 17:21:16 In Southern Africa, Internet disconnect you! Apr 13 17:23:18 In India, there is no Internet Apr 13 17:23:34 that was lame Apr 13 17:24:57 Computers are so cheap, the are bound to have internet axx and computer everywhere soon. Apr 13 17:25:22 * Sup3rkiddo is poor :S Apr 13 17:26:51 So no electricity ? :) Apr 13 17:27:09 no wheels Apr 13 17:27:11 bleh Apr 13 17:27:16 i am a student Apr 13 17:27:38 ...and all students are poor Apr 13 17:28:15 student usually got free electricity, you bastard. Apr 13 17:29:19 and students can party in the middle of a week :) Apr 13 17:32:54 yeah.. party :D Apr 13 17:33:06 depend on what study you're making Apr 13 17:42:32 ~trout elation for just the heck of it Apr 13 17:42:33 * apt slaps elation for just the heck of it around a bit with a large trout! Apr 13 17:44:22 now now guys, no cybersex in here :) Apr 13 17:44:53 * nezza-_- looks away Apr 13 18:32:46 * pyknite is lokking for a free mail, unlike gmail Apr 13 18:36:09 pyknite, hotmail! Apr 13 18:36:21 mouhahahaha Apr 13 18:37:15 is it true hotmail doesn't work in linux? Apr 13 18:37:41 no, you can use firefox to access it Apr 13 18:37:55 Works fine. Apr 13 18:40:10 * bmk789_ just ported nano to openmoko Apr 13 18:40:40 hurray! Apr 13 18:40:57 ehh great Apr 13 18:42:25 please port nethack Apr 13 18:42:38 and vim :P Apr 13 18:43:22 And DOOM II! Apr 13 18:43:29 Counter Strike Apr 13 18:44:22 and windows :D Apr 13 18:44:31 ok, i'm just leaving :D Apr 13 18:44:39 bmk789_: thanks! Apr 13 18:44:47 and Crysis! Apr 13 18:45:20 bmk789_, ipks, recipes somewhere? Apr 13 18:46:55 Why do nano if it's already in OE? *wonders* Apr 13 18:47:31 To integrate the dial command. Apr 13 18:47:55 * FnuggleMaster loves how delays since "August maybe" have led to "April" being changed to "some time" Apr 13 18:49:04 FnuggleMaster: Easy... people will complain about delays one way or another, so not announcing a date is the most sane way imo Apr 13 18:49:25 _combined_with_information_about_what's_happening! Apr 13 18:49:27 abraxa_: I've been saying that since before August :) Apr 13 18:49:42 hehe Apr 13 19:08:59 When was the glamo chip picked? Last Feb? Apr 13 19:16:35 hmmm, no stylus with the phone? that's not very good Apr 13 19:16:45 They are $4 on ebay Apr 13 19:17:06 if you have a paypal account, which I don't, and if you would even be prepared to use ebay, which i'm not :) Apr 13 19:17:23 the delays are going to cost them market and momentum. Apr 13 19:17:25 Pick a seller with a good reputation, send cash in an envelope. Apr 13 19:17:39 I've waited for 1.5 years. Not going to wait again beyond the summer Apr 13 19:19:43 LetoTo: Hurhur. Apr 13 19:36:10 LetoTo: not much they can do really, would you rather a device that works or a device that's released? And without wanting to sound like a prick, by all means, find an alternative which is anything close :/ Apr 13 19:44:46 doc|home: Adding to that, no device is good without a working (and usable) software stack... which is problematic at this point Apr 13 19:45:28 So I think that it would cost them even more market shares if they'd release a consumer product with a software stack that's in a disastrous state Apr 13 19:47:31 abraxa_: well, they're kinda doing that :/ it's a very basic phone still, calls, sms, gps, the rest's not in a very great position. Web browser for example. :/ Apr 13 19:47:42 that will change quickly imo, but still Apr 13 19:49:29 Can't really comment on that... Apr 13 19:49:41 The freerunner at release will _NOT_ be a consumer device. Apr 13 19:49:46 That's _many_ months ago. Apr 13 19:49:48 err Apr 13 19:49:51 That's _many_ months ahead. Apr 13 19:50:30 It will function as a phone, correct? Apr 13 19:50:48 there are people using their 1973s as phones Apr 13 19:50:55 excellent Apr 13 19:51:29 very limited phone functionality though, afaik Apr 13 19:52:07 SpeedEvil: The freerunner *as such* is a consumer device like any other - the software part of it may be consumer-ready or not, depending on the stack used Apr 13 19:52:37 * SpeedEvil points to his exact wording. Apr 13 19:52:57 Why do you speak in such absolute terms? Apr 13 19:53:45 * SpeedEvil emulates the great philosopher. Apr 13 19:53:56 '`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' Apr 13 19:54:03 heh :) Apr 13 19:59:59 SpeedEvil: i love that you quote that line. one of my favorite. Apr 13 20:02:29 abraxa_: the reason is this: we know that our software needs more polish. we don't want to delay getting the hardware into the hands of developers who are comfortable with beta software, knowing they can upgrade it. however, we need to be very careful to make sure that non-technical consumers don't jump on the Neo Freerunner when it first comes out and expect it to be consumer ready. That's... Apr 13 20:02:30 ...why we are so careful with our words. Apr 13 20:05:29 MichaelShiloh: Yeah, I understand. However, the direction OM, Inc. wants to go is unclear to everyone in this community and we'd really wish to hear where things are headed - if that's even clear to OM, Inc. itself :) Apr 13 20:09:11 Point is: we have *tons* of untapped potential in this channel. If you'd come clear and say "we have 4 months and need this, this and this done" then everyone who's willing and able to help can do so. As of now, developers have been burned and confused more than anything else, so OM, Inc. has to lift the heavy work all by itself... sadly. Apr 13 20:09:46 Well, I'm in California (although right now I'm in Israel - even further removed) and there is necessarily a delay in getting the true situation in Taiwan to me. As I see it, we had to make a choice: with our limited resources, should we focus on hardware, software, or both? What we decided to do was to focus on hardware, but with as much effort on improving the software as possible, without... Apr 13 20:09:48 ...delaying the hardware further. The result is that the hardware is very nearly ready for mass production, as you've seen from Steve's updates. The software, on the other hand, is further behind, but that's because we've asked those people to help get the hardware as solid as possible first. Apr 13 20:10:40 Does this answer your question or have I missed your point? Apr 13 20:12:31 It does answer it and it does make sense... though at the same time I wish the community had been involved more - as I said, people here *want* to help but got burned by OM, Inc's actions. Thus, fixing that asap would be *my* personal priority if I had a say. Apr 13 20:13:40 I fully understand that it's hard for you to do much at this point (and I do know that you're trying), just saying how things are perceived by me Apr 13 20:14:52 abraxa: I don't mean this in an accusatory way; I'm just ignorant: How were people here burned by OM? Apr 13 20:17:16 rtm: Sample quote: "mwester mutters to himself that even those who commit fixes and updates find their changes languishing and bit-rotting in ignored bugzilla entries." Apr 13 20:18:26 Aside from that, developers were first made believe that the GTK+ stack would be the way to go and then were presented EFL-based projects (illume, diversity, enlazar, etc) while also wondering about Qtopia Apr 13 20:18:47 OK, I had not heard that. I myself have submitted but never submitted a fix. Apr 13 20:20:11 Also, there was never a clear API that could be relied upon... if you want to develop now, what do you use? GTK? EFL? How do you talk to the hardware? etc... so people are waiting until these issues get resolved before they waste their time Apr 13 20:20:49 And as much as I don't like saying it, Openmoko does have to take the blame on those issues :( Apr 13 20:21:04 * mwester observes that since the quoted comment was made, the situation as it relates to kernel patches and fixes has been much improved. Apr 13 20:21:33 mwester: I am glad then Apr 13 20:21:35 * mwester cannot comment on user-space, but is still rather concerned about that entire area. Apr 13 20:22:02 But there have been some excellent (IMO) applications generated, such as tangogps. Do you feel that the API is so ill defined that the effort that went into that project is apt to have been wasted? Apr 13 20:23:22 I agree with your general point, abraxa_ --- there has been much untapped potential that could have (and still could be) used if a project plan and clear direction on the items you mentioned were to be posted, and the community organized around it. Apr 13 20:23:24 rtm: I can't say as I don't know which APIs tangogps makes use of Apr 13 20:24:13 tangogps looks pretty much like straight GTK. Apr 13 20:26:01 rtm: It *might* be a waste then if Openmoko scratches the GTK stack - which to me, appears to be the long-term goal Apr 13 20:32:57 isn't part of having community involvement seeing where the community goes with things? I don't know enough about the hierarchy, but what if the community just decided to do things one way Apr 13 20:33:07 I don't think anyone has a problem with OM concentrating on hardware. Apr 13 20:33:10 wouldn't that leave OM in a position where they have to listen to the community? Apr 13 20:33:43 I think there is a problem that OM hasn't said 'we are not working on x,y,z' - when in the past, h,j,k have turned up with no notice to the community. Apr 13 20:34:05 So people are unwilling to work on x,y,z when their work may be redundant. Apr 13 20:47:18 speedevil you are right....i noticed this with the location project they seem to be working on Apr 13 22:35:40 i think they plan on using ultiple toolkits Apr 13 23:34:35 what is the difference with ipkg and opkg? Apr 13 23:39:15 bmk789_: ipkg is no longer maintained afaik. Apr 13 23:39:39 bmk789_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg Apr 14 02:19:57 boo Apr 14 02:54:35 raster, yah Apr 14 02:56:22 wildfire: ak! Apr 14 02:56:28 werd up **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 14 02:59:57 2008