**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 17 02:59:57 2008
Apr 17 03:17:19 <yxz97> Hi!
Apr 17 03:18:41 <yxz97> I would like program...
Apr 17 03:18:49 <yxz97> in smartphone for linux......
Apr 17 03:18:54 <yxz97> openmoko works.
Apr 17 03:18:56 <yxz97> ??????
Apr 17 03:21:15 <rtm> Have you looked at the getting started information on the Wiki page?
Apr 17 03:29:45 <ewon> lawl
Apr 17 05:01:55 <shaz> hi
Apr 17 05:02:35 <shaz> which is the latest "stable" openmoko revision at svn.openmoko.org
Apr 17 06:16:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r199 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/libfreesmartphone/ (7 files): 
Apr 17 06:16:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Simplified method calls
Apr 17 06:16:38 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Began implementing SMS interface
Apr 17 06:38:33 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r200 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Incoming call signal to libfreesmartphone
Apr 17 07:11:08 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r201 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml: 
Apr 17 07:11:08 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml: Clarify that ListProvider and RegisterWithProvider deal with the numerical
Apr 17 07:11:08 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: operator code as opposed to an incrementing index counter. Thanks spyre.
Apr 17 07:19:19 <d3vice> is CIA-41 bot monitoring some kind of cvs/svn/git of openmoko?
Apr 17 07:20:07 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r202 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (18 files): otapi: rename xml files to xml.in (prepare for adding docs and Makefile)
Apr 17 07:20:13 <mickeyl> d3vice: yes, it is
Apr 17 07:20:13 <d3vice> it is, bravo, great stuff
Apr 17 07:20:29 <d3vice> ;)
Apr 17 07:23:42 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 17 07:26:33 <d3vice> g'morning
Apr 17 07:32:16 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r203 10/trunk/specifications/tools/ (. spec-strip-docs.xsl spec-to-docbook.xsl): specifications: add xslt files
Apr 17 07:35:51 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: is your stuff going to be the gsmd now .. ?
Apr 17 07:36:25 <RedDog> can this BOTs also monitor GIT commits?
Apr 17 07:37:34 <ScaredyCat> does git have triggers?
Apr 17 07:38:55 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r204 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/Makefile: otapi: add Makefile
Apr 17 07:39:14 <mickeyl> someone needs to add a trigger to git.openmoko.org
Apr 17 07:39:21 <mickeyl> then we could have this monitored here
Apr 17 07:39:24 <mickeyl> i'll talk to the admins
Apr 17 07:40:19 * ScaredyCat points mickeyl up at previous question
Apr 17 07:40:28 <RedDog> thanks mickeyl...
Apr 17 07:41:18 <spyre> mickeyl's stuff ;)
Apr 17 07:41:55 <methril> morning
Apr 17 07:42:02 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: the honest answer is... i don't know. for the next months, I'm going to push gsmd2 and pygsmd because i have lost faith in gsmd. whether om inc. accepts my recommendation is another story, since we also have qtopias stuff now
Apr 17 07:42:25 <mickeyl> i will at least focus on something that we can use to build our own stuff upon
Apr 17 07:42:39 <mickeyl> no matter whether the powers think it's sexy or not
Apr 17 07:42:43 <ScaredyCat> ... but gsmd has no muxing nor does qtopia.. right?
Apr 17 07:42:53 <mickeyl> gsmd no muxing, right. qtopia has muxing
Apr 17 07:43:00 <ScaredyCat> ahh ok..
Apr 17 07:43:01 <mickeyl> built in the blob :D
Apr 17 07:43:09 <ScaredyCat> so gsmd has to go then
Apr 17 07:43:19 <mickeyl> or be adapted
Apr 17 07:43:19 <ScaredyCat> no mux == not good
Apr 17 07:43:32 <ScaredyCat> well, you have a mux :)
Apr 17 07:43:55 <mickeyl> yeah!
Apr 17 07:44:13 <ScaredyCat> I saw that Erin(?) was testing it...
Apr 17 07:44:23 <mickeyl> really? that's cool. didn't know that
Apr 17 07:45:35 <ScaredyCat> I keep seeing messages.. I can't remember if it's here or in mail
Apr 17 07:46:10 <spyre> mickeyl: are you planning on making proper documents from otapi specifications?
Apr 17 07:47:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1351 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 17 07:47:02 <cdbot2> * * Speaker function cannot be kept when stage changes
Apr 17 07:47:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1351
Apr 17 07:50:36 <mickeyl> spyre: ya. first thing is moving the <!-- into proper doc attributes, then we have a makefile with xml and html targets so we can have real documents which we link to from the wiki
Apr 17 07:51:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1352 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 17 07:51:02 <cdbot2> * * Some noise via headset
Apr 17 07:51:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1352
Apr 17 07:51:13 <spyre> mickeyl: great, let me know when/where/how to add the at commands :)
Apr 17 07:51:27 <mickeyl> sure thing
Apr 17 07:58:16 <ScaredyCat> "Last thing I've heard, the first units will be GTA02v5"
Apr 17 07:58:18 <ScaredyCat> huh?
Apr 17 07:59:07 <CM> ScaredyCat: Can you build the toolchain? I get loads of errors on virtual-locale-*-dev
Apr 17 07:59:16 <ScaredyCat> gta02v6 no
Apr 17 07:59:24 <ScaredyCat> CM: no.
Apr 17 07:59:36 <ScaredyCat> it barfs on binutils
Apr 17 07:59:40 <CM> You have binary locales disabled?
Apr 17 07:59:43 <ScaredyCat> yes
Apr 17 08:00:04 <CM> Me too.. Hmm..
Apr 17 08:00:34 <jitu3485> I am getting this error on OM2007.02.  CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/libmokoui2
Apr 17 08:00:34 <jitu3485> cc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362
Apr 17 08:00:34 <jitu3485> . How to resolve this?
Apr 17 08:01:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1353 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 17 08:01:02 <cdbot2> * * No sound after resume from suspend
Apr 17 08:01:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1353
Apr 17 08:01:05 <jitu3485> can someone help please?
Apr 17 08:01:55 * CM tries a new build of om
Apr 17 08:04:08 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: is that correct, the first units to ship will be v5's not v6's ?
Apr 17 08:05:27 <mickeyl> i can't comment on that.
Apr 17 08:05:38 <mickeyl> the only guys knowing that for sure sit in the factory
Apr 17 08:08:37 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r205 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (9 files): otapi: add xslt namespace codes
Apr 17 08:11:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1354 has been created by allen_lin(AT)openmoko.com
Apr 17 08:11:01 <cdbot2> * * Cannot resume from suspend if suspend more than 30 minutes
Apr 17 08:11:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1354
Apr 17 08:48:43 <hepaajan> mickeyl: Hi, I mailed a couple of questions to freesmartphone list...
Apr 17 08:49:04 <mickeyl> ok, cool. will respond asap
Apr 17 09:26:00 <kaindad> hi guys just joined openmoko
Apr 17 09:26:14 <kaindad> wanted to find out more about it
Apr 17 09:28:33 <kaindad> So its a linux based open source cellphone
Apr 17 09:29:57 <CM> Yes :)
Apr 17 09:30:33 <CM> kaindad: The wiki have a lot of well written pages, please look around
Apr 17 09:30:33 <thos> kaindad, there is a website full of information too!
Apr 17 09:30:38 <thos> haha
Apr 17 09:30:43 <CM> :P
Apr 17 09:30:59 <kaindad> ok
Apr 17 09:35:41 <methril> some embedded hw designer? I've a question about the GSM module in freerunner
Apr 17 09:37:55 <sreekanth> Hi all
Apr 17 09:38:23 <methril> hi
Apr 17 09:38:48 <methril> it's possible to use a generic DSP for the Calypso functionality (to keep the openess)
Apr 17 09:39:55 <sreekanth> the onscreen keyboard is appearing whenever I use the text entry in Gtk on openmoko. I want to know is there any way that to disable the on screen keyboard temporarily even if the focus lies on  a text entry
Apr 17 10:09:06 <pandian> hello
Apr 17 10:09:51 <edistar> hi
Apr 17 10:11:19 <thos> hola
Apr 17 10:11:40 <pandian> how can I disable the onscreen keyboard using GTK?
Apr 17 10:15:43 <josch_> killall matchbox :P
Apr 17 10:20:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1355 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de
Apr 17 10:20:01 <cdbot2> * * unable to enter PIN after suspend
Apr 17 10:20:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1355
Apr 17 10:22:08 <raster> in #openmoko-devel eleven
Apr 17 10:41:22 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r206 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (14 files in 4 dirs): 
Apr 17 10:41:22 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Added ReleasedCall signal and Accept and Release methods to libfreesmartphone call interface
Apr 17 10:41:22 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: Changed Accept methods id arguments direction
Apr 17 10:56:44 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4371 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (Makefile.am opkg.c): opkg: various white space cleanups and implement opkg_update_package_lists
Apr 17 11:14:27 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4372 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/tests/ (Makefile.am libopkg_test.c): opkg: add libopkg test application
Apr 17 11:26:12 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r207 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Added more sms methods to libfreesmartphone and pyfreesmartphone.
Apr 17 11:57:37 <shaz> can't get bitbake to run without errors! first it was giving some tags problem and now after "mtn update" its not letting me use it as root
Apr 17 11:57:58 <CM> You shouldn't run it as root
Apr 17 11:58:17 <shaz> .... but I want to
Apr 17 11:58:44 <CM> Hmm.. Is it the makefile or bitbake that complains?
Apr 17 11:59:00 <shaz> I am not using mokoMakefile
Apr 17 11:59:03 <CM> Ok
Apr 17 11:59:12 <shaz> so its bitbake
Apr 17 11:59:14 <CM> Maybe ask in #oe then
Apr 17 11:59:22 <CM> Why do you want to run as root?
Apr 17 11:59:25 <CM> That's just odd :)
Apr 17 11:59:26 <shaz> nice idea thanx
Apr 17 11:59:52 <CM> I suspect they'll tell you "Don't run it as root" 
Apr 17 12:00:00 <saurabh1403> hello everyone
Apr 17 12:00:13 <CM> Hi there
Apr 17 12:00:23 <shaz> Is there anything tha I can do to sanity.conf
Apr 17 12:00:36 <shaz> hi
Apr 17 12:01:28 * CM finds oe almost as confusing as a certain guy on the distro-devel list ;)
Apr 17 12:01:30 <saurabh1403> can someone tell what is the progress of GSoC selection. How many mentors are have been assigned to open moko 2008 GSoC projects
Apr 17 12:01:58 <CM> saurabh1403: stefan_schmidt might know something about that
Apr 17 12:03:39 <stefan_schmidt> CM: indeed :)
Apr 17 12:03:46 <saurabh1403> actually i have submitted two applications for open moko, one for gps and other for speech recognition. I am qurious to know about the projects assignment.
Apr 17 12:03:58 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: It seems we are getting ten slots.
Apr 17 12:04:11 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: We have candidates for all of them
Apr 17 12:04:28 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: Some problem with students that appliad for more then one project
Apr 17 12:04:43 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: Once it is final we will write a mail
Apr 17 12:05:03 <saurabh1403> ok sir...is there any mentor interested in GPS related applications development. actually i am very interested in this idea owing to my past experience with gps interfacing
Apr 17 12:05:29 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: We use the web form to contact you if we have questions. The decisions will come later
Apr 17 12:05:41 <saurabh1403> ok sir.
Apr 17 12:05:42 <saurabh1403> thanks
Apr 17 12:05:52 <stefan_schmidt> saurabh1403: no problem
Apr 17 12:08:40 <CM> 10 slots, cool.. 
Apr 17 12:12:01 <nezza-_-> kann hier jemand nen einhand tastaturlayout empfehlen?
Apr 17 12:14:29 <methril> :O i didn't understand anythinf <nezza-_->
Apr 17 12:15:09 <nezza-_-> oh sorry, wrong channel
Apr 17 12:15:18 <nezza-_-> i'm a little bit confused today ;) 
Apr 17 12:15:49 <nezza-_-> i was asking if anybody could recommend me an one-hand based keyboard layout
Apr 17 12:17:14 <jitu3485> can someone give the link for source code of gsmd2
Apr 17 12:20:15 <spyre> jitu3485: http://www.freesmartphone.org/mediawiki/index.php/Implementations/GSMD2
Apr 17 12:20:35 <jitu3485> thanks spyre
Apr 17 12:20:44 <spyre> np
Apr 17 12:27:11 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r208 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/src/ (Makefile.am modem.c modem.h modem_internal.h serial.c): Fix sms send
Apr 17 13:07:33 <mwester> greetings
Apr 17 13:07:46 <saurabh1403> hello
Apr 17 13:18:16 <nezza-_-> http://server.leveldown.de/~nezza/lotofmokos.jpg nice photo ;)
Apr 17 13:20:25 <jitu3485> mickey : when you are updating for gsmd2 on wiki
Apr 17 13:20:53 <Sup3rkiddo> nezza-_-, i almost read it as "lotofmofos"
Apr 17 13:21:27 <Basheri> nezza-_-: it sure is =)
Apr 17 13:21:32 <Sup3rkiddo> ooh, thinkpads
Apr 17 13:21:43 * Sup3rkiddo just loves them
Apr 17 13:23:05 <Sup3rkiddo> i see an orange + black at the background..looks pretty good
Apr 17 13:23:22 <Sup3rkiddo> yellow + black would make heads turn
Apr 17 13:24:00 <Basheri> i was about to say the same thing. I also like that color combination
Apr 17 13:24:15 <Basheri> (orange + black)
Apr 17 13:24:43 <Sup3rkiddo> of course with a can of paint...anything is possible
Apr 17 13:26:52 <Basheri> indeed
Apr 17 13:28:28 * mbuf picks the all-black one
Apr 17 13:36:37 <Stephmw> raster: know of any screenshot that showcases some of what evas can do?
Apr 17 13:37:46 <balrog-kun> the two neos in the back, running OM lay in different time zones :)
Apr 17 13:38:19 <Sup3rkiddo> where was the snap taken?
Apr 17 13:41:15 <nezza-_-> Basheri: well.. the black one is a gta02 ;) 
Apr 17 13:41:24 <summatusmentis> hello all
Apr 17 13:44:22 <Basheri> nezza-_-: =)
Apr 17 13:45:32 <trickie_> mjbroek: yo
Apr 17 13:45:44 <mjbroek> :)
Apr 17 13:49:33 <Sup3rkiddo> summatusmentis, y0
Apr 17 13:55:22 <summatusmentis> hi Sup3rkiddo
Apr 17 13:57:58 <summatusmentis> is there a source browser for cvs?
Apr 17 14:13:47 <ScaredyCat> cvsview
Apr 17 14:25:43 <Sup3rkiddo> isnt that viewcvs
Apr 17 14:28:17 <Flinx> hai
Apr 17 14:29:07 <ScaredyCat> they both exist
Apr 17 14:29:21 <Flinx> damn there is no /back command
Apr 17 14:51:21 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4373 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/opkg.c: opkg: fix option array handling
Apr 17 15:02:05 <summatusmentis> spyre: how is ophoned going?
Apr 17 15:09:35 <CIA-41> openmoko: 03thomas * r4374 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (Makefile.am opkg.c): opkg: fix header include path issues
Apr 17 15:29:22 <rolloso> halo is anyone there?
Apr 17 15:29:29 <rolloso> im looking for shipping channel
Apr 17 15:29:57 <rolloso> im a SnP Italian borker and i would like to find a channe where to discuss about shipping with other brokeres
Apr 17 15:30:23 <tomjoad> you are in the wrong channel then
Apr 17 15:31:14 <tomjoad> this channel is for an Open Source phone distribution
Apr 17 15:33:26 <rolloso> can someone help me to find the channel im looking for?
Apr 17 15:33:52 <abraxa_> rolloso: Best bet is to send a mail to the community mailing list
Apr 17 15:40:07 <ScaredyCat> ir type /list and search 
Apr 17 15:54:36 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r209 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: add ListActive and ReleaseAll
Apr 17 16:00:18 <spyre> summatusmentis_: I'm working on gsmd2, not ophoned :)
Apr 17 16:00:27 <spyre> summatusmentis_: http://www.freesmartphone.org/mediawiki/index.php/Implementations/GSMD2
Apr 17 16:00:42 <summatusmentis_> spyre: oh, right. I was under the impression it was gonna be the same thing
Apr 17 16:00:43 <summatusmentis_> nvm
Apr 17 16:05:05 <ScaredyCat> I just spend 10 minutes struggling to turn on bluetooth...
Apr 17 16:05:27 <ScaredyCat> only to frealize that I wasn't actually ssh'd into my neo..
Apr 17 16:05:39 <ScaredyCat> s/frealize/realize/
Apr 17 16:05:40 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: only to realize that I wasn't actually ssh'd into my neo..
Apr 17 16:08:41 * mwester takes ScaredyCat's beer away from him.
Apr 17 16:09:00 <z3cka> has anyone used amarok with their neo?
Apr 17 16:09:29 <ScaredyCat> mwester: if only..
Apr 17 16:09:39 <z3cka> to transfer music/podcasts/etc?
Apr 17 16:09:55 <ScaredyCat> nope...
Apr 17 16:10:08 <ScaredyCat> scp mymusic phone:/media/card/music/ 
Apr 17 16:10:32 <ScaredyCat> you could use sshfs I suppose
Apr 17 16:10:44 <z3cka> that's what i was thinking
Apr 17 16:11:18 <ScaredyCat> well, it's easy enough to set up in amarok..
Apr 17 16:11:23 <mwester> z3cka:  but there has been discussion on a formal, standard way to gain access to the internal storage of the neo -- via Samba, or perhaps USB Gadget, or such.
Apr 17 16:11:34 <z3cka> that is what my friend does with his jailbreak-ed iPhone to talk to amarok
Apr 17 16:12:12 <z3cka> mwester: where can i partake in this disscussion?
Apr 17 16:12:40 <mwester> Check the archives for the distro-devel list, IIRC.   You'll find the links on the portal.
Apr 17 16:13:56 <z3cka> okay. i'm sure some ubunters out there have some neos that they would like to sync with amarok
Apr 17 16:48:24 <chihchunchung> hello
Apr 17 16:49:50 <kdean06> Does anyone know why the keypad sometimes accepts upper case letters, but sometimes doesn't? Is this a "feature" or a bug?
Apr 17 16:50:45 <kdean06> Damnit, when is raster's keyboard doing to arrive? :(
Apr 17 16:52:26 <wurp2|away> I never ever use the multitap kbd
Apr 17 16:52:42 <ledzgio> hi to everybody
Apr 17 16:53:00 <wurp2> hi ledzgio 
Apr 17 16:53:06 <ledzgio> i have a question
Apr 17 16:53:14 <wurp2> likewise hi to chihchunchung 
Apr 17 16:53:25 <ledzgio> i want develope an application for openmoko but i'm a little confused
Apr 17 16:53:38 <ledzgio> which language can i use?
Apr 17 16:53:51 <kdean06> wurp2, The only time I EVER use the keypad is entering contacts and last I knew, there was a bug that would cause the matchbox keyboard to hold "Enter"... It made adding contacts impossible for me.
Apr 17 16:54:01 <chihchunchung> hi,wurp2 and everybody
Apr 17 16:54:18 <wurp2> ledzgio: C/C++ or Python, primarily
Apr 17 16:54:19 <mwester> ledzgio:  Most app developers use C or Python, combined with a suitable selection of curse words in your native language. ;)
Apr 17 16:54:39 <wurp2> Python is easier, since it doesn't require cross-compile or setting up a compilation environment on your PC
Apr 17 16:54:43 <ledzgio> can i use just python?
Apr 17 16:54:53 <wurp2> kdean06: Oh, I never enter contacts.  I mostly use the kbd at the terminal
Apr 17 16:55:06 <ledzgio> where can i find a guide to do that with python?
Apr 17 16:55:07 <kdean06> I've been meaning to sit down and write a checkbook balancer application in Python. :P
Apr 17 16:55:08 <wurp2> All of my contacts came from importing from my SIM
Apr 17 16:55:09 <mwester> Yep, python is relatively painless and has all the bindings you usually would need.
Apr 17 16:55:10 <roh> http://blog.thc.org/
Apr 17 16:55:25 <wurp2> ledzgio: Just write a normal python gtk app, copy it to your neo, then run it
Apr 17 16:55:55 <wurp2> ledzgio: Try searching for python on wiki.openmoko.org if you find yourself missing libraries
Apr 17 16:56:01 <ledzgio> with pygtk?
Apr 17 16:56:06 <wurp2> or do 'opkg list | grep py'
Apr 17 16:56:09 <wurp2> ledzgio: yep
Apr 17 16:56:27 <wurp2> and install the missing python opkgs
Apr 17 16:56:27 <ledzgio> ok...so openmoko has a python interpreter inside?
Apr 17 16:56:30 <wurp2> yep
Apr 17 16:56:36 <wurp2> very convenient
Apr 17 16:56:49 <ledzgio> good
Apr 17 16:56:53 <ledzgio> very good
Apr 17 16:56:54 <wurp2> I have a python app to pop up a gui when it detects slow charge, if you want to look at that
Apr 17 16:57:05 <ledzgio> sure..
Apr 17 16:57:10 <ledzgio> where i can find it?
Apr 17 16:58:03 <ledzgio> so i will not have problem with libraries if i write a normal app and then copy it to my openmoko?
Apr 17 16:58:07 <wurp2> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script
Apr 17 16:58:30 <wurp2> Check your imports against the output of 'opkg list | grep py' to make sure all support is there
Apr 17 16:58:58 <wurp2> Otherwise you can ask around here for specific packages; some people have built python packages for OM that haven't made it into the standard repositories
Apr 17 16:59:35 <ledzgio> ok so, if some library is not supported, i can import manually into openmoko?
Apr 17 17:00:02 <wurp2> If there's no binary code involved, you can just manually pull it over or build an opkg that does that
Apr 17 17:00:27 <wurp2> If there is binary code, you would have to set up  a build env to compile the C/C++ for OM
Apr 17 17:00:45 <wurp2> Of course, first check in the chat room/mailing list/repositories to make sure no one already ported it
Apr 17 17:00:46 <ledzgio> ok after i write an app i've to package it?
Apr 17 17:00:52 <wurp2> You don't have to
Apr 17 17:00:55 <wurp2> I didn't for mine
Apr 17 17:01:03 <wurp2> I should, though, and so should you ;-)
Apr 17 17:01:16 <ledzgio> ok..
Apr 17 17:01:21 <wurp2> You can just copy the code over and run it
Apr 17 17:01:27 <ledzgio> is it explained on openmoko.org?
Apr 17 17:01:44 <ledzgio> how to package..
Apr 17 17:02:14 <kdean06> wurp2, You've updated the script to use opkg?
Apr 17 17:02:56 <kdean06> wurp2, The tarball you link to still uses ipkg, so I've basically resorted to rescripting the cfc-install thingy. Not much.
Apr 17 17:03:10 <ledzgio> thanks very much wurp2, last question...do you know when can i buy the freerunner phone??
Apr 17 17:03:21 <wurp2> kdean06: Oops, sorry
Apr 17 17:03:45 <wurp2> ledzgio: No one knows for sure, but they're in the last stages of production verification testing, it looks like, with mass production being next
Apr 17 17:04:15 <ledzgio> end of april i heard..right?
Apr 17 17:04:22 <ledzgio> or later?
Apr 17 17:04:38 <wurp2> kdean06: I will try to find time this weekend to package that up properly into an opkg
Apr 17 17:04:43 <kdean06> ledzgio, There's no set date, but it's pretty clear it's getting close. :)
Apr 17 17:04:56 <wurp2> and hopefully get the source on a real rcs
Apr 17 17:05:32 <ledzgio> ipkg has been substituted by opkg??
Apr 17 17:05:42 <kdean06> They're in the process of making the manufacturing more efficient. Hardware design is finalized but they're tweaking the tools. As soon as they're satisfied with the production efficiency (and assuming there's no critical issues) they'll begin mass production.
Apr 17 17:05:53 <kdean06> Yes, ipkg is no longer in the default images.
Apr 17 17:06:03 <ledzgio> ok thanks
Apr 17 17:06:14 <wurp2> yaknow, it seems like they could have pointed out ages ago "It will take 6 weeks or more after hardware is finalized before we can mass produce, so until you hear the hardware is finalized, the release is more than 6 weeks away"
Apr 17 17:06:15 <ledzgio> i hope soon..i want the freerunner!!!!!!
Apr 17 17:06:31 <kdean06> lol
Apr 17 17:06:34 <wurp2> Did you read on the lists that the first batch might be v5s?
Apr 17 17:06:53 <wurp2> (which take >8x as much power to keep leds illuminated)
Apr 17 17:06:53 <kdean06> I've getting so much e-mail now I can't read them all.
Apr 17 17:07:09 <wurp2> I think I will wait for v6s at least before buying
Apr 17 17:07:22 <wurp2> I'm not very concerned about the goodies
Apr 17 17:07:39 <kdean06> wurp2, If the goodies are an extra battery, I dont' care. :)
Apr 17 17:08:04 <wurp2> kdean06: I saw someone on ebay apparently selling 01 batteries for about $15 each
Apr 17 17:08:17 <wurp2> So I think I'll just shell out for another one
Apr 17 17:08:42 <kdean06> Some people say "I want 30 hour standby time!". If I can forget to plug it in when I go to bed and it's still alive when I wake up, that's fine with me. :) My lifestyle means there's never more than a 10 hour gap when I don't have charger access.
Apr 17 17:08:45 <wurp2> Max battery life for a v5 with *just* an led burning was 10 hours
Apr 17 17:08:47 * mwester wonders just how many of the gta01's will actually remain in any form of use once the 02 comes out.
Apr 17 17:08:54 <wurp2> kdean06: me too
Apr 17 17:09:02 <wurp2> mwester: I have no plans on getting rid of mine
Apr 17 17:09:08 <kdean06> mwester, At least 1. :)
Apr 17 17:09:09 <wurp2> or ceasing to use it
Apr 17 17:09:27 <wurp2> and I will be pretty peeved if the whole effort to support it just dries up
Apr 17 17:09:41 <kdean06> Though... HOW I use it might change. My wife pretty much said she doesn't want it, so I might turn it into a carputer. :P
Apr 17 17:10:45 <ledzgio> where can i find the api's for develope openmoko app?will i need some specific api for openmoko framework right?
Apr 17 17:11:26 <nezza-_-> ledzgio: well.. take a look into the wiki.
Apr 17 17:11:33 <nezza-_-> ledzgio: you need the build environment 
Apr 17 17:11:33 <mwester> I think it's just styles, right?
Apr 17 17:11:38 <nezza-_-> mwester: right
Apr 17 17:11:53 <ledzgio> where is the build environment?
Apr 17 17:12:04 * ScaredyCat guesses he must be on a global ignore list
Apr 17 17:12:07 <nezza-_-> ledzgio: wiki.openmoko.org
Apr 17 17:12:13 <nezza-_-> ScaredyCat: ? 
Apr 17 17:12:22 <ScaredyCat> nm
Apr 17 17:12:44 <wurp2> ledzgio: The only real apis I know about are the /sys file structure (which is mostly undocumented) and dbus (which is likely to changes soon)
Apr 17 17:13:01 <wurp2> I added some minimal docs of dbus to the wiki
Apr 17 17:13:13 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: No, we ignore you manually ;-)
Apr 17 17:13:23 <ScaredyCat> who said that?
Apr 17 17:13:33 * mwester thinks ScaredyCat mis-chan'd again.
Apr 17 17:13:36 <mwester> :p
Apr 17 17:13:57 <ScaredyCat> I meant a non-irc ignore list
Apr 17 17:14:00 <wurp2> I guess so, since I didn't see anything he'd said recently in this chan for us to ignore
Apr 17 17:14:26 * ScaredyCat sighs
Apr 17 17:14:51 <ScaredyCat> I think the 01 will die a slow painful death...
Apr 17 17:15:13 <wurp2> Yay, that's just what I was hoping for when I shelled out $300
Apr 17 17:15:22 <zedstar> i think i will keep using mine instead of an emulator
Apr 17 17:15:25 <ScaredyCat> it's only my opinion...
Apr 17 17:15:30 <ScaredyCat> but...
Apr 17 17:15:31 <ScaredyCat> well...
Apr 17 17:15:50 <wurp2> Honestly, actually even if it doesn't get any major sw improvements, I will probably still use mine and have fun with it
Apr 17 17:16:13 <wurp2> but I will still be pretty pissed
Apr 17 17:16:17 <ledzgio> sorry guys, i can't find the build environment...someone can help me?
Apr 17 17:16:19 <ScaredyCat> yeah, I'll probably convert mine to an sms<->email gateway...
Apr 17 17:16:27 <wurp2> ledzgio: Search for toolchain
Apr 17 17:16:38 <zedstar> an sms type gateway be good
Apr 17 17:16:40 <ScaredyCat> soultrain
Apr 17 17:17:17 * ScaredyCat sighs some more
Apr 17 17:17:18 <zedstar> or could use it as a atomic time server if u get gps signal from it where it is
Apr 17 17:17:57 <zedstar> or failing that some kind of sex toy
Apr 17 17:18:13 <wurp2> zedstar: Yeah, I've been thinking of all the interesting things you can do with 'vibrate'
Apr 17 17:18:13 * ScaredyCat must remember to get gllin
Apr 17 17:18:40 <wurp2> A @$%1 standard way to get gllin on the 01 would be a big boon
Apr 17 17:18:54 <wurp2> s/@$%1/fucking/
Apr 17 17:18:54 <apt> wurp2 meant: A fucking standard way to get gllin on the 01 would be a big boon
Apr 17 17:18:59 <zedstar> or just where it round your neck to impress the ladies
Apr 17 17:19:13 <wurp2> hah
Apr 17 17:19:15 <ledzgio> ok but this is for c language and i don't see nothing about python and apis
Apr 17 17:19:22 <wurp2> I laughed when I got the lanyard
Apr 17 17:19:23 <ScaredyCat> lol
Apr 17 17:19:31 <ScaredyCat> he said api's
Apr 17 17:19:34 <ledzgio> it's not so easy..little bit confused
Apr 17 17:19:36 <zedstar> i saw someone wearing one
Apr 17 17:19:38 * ScaredyCat giggles
Apr 17 17:19:40 <zedstar> brave man
Apr 17 17:19:59 <ScaredyCat> BT Staff seem to wear them
Apr 17 17:20:13 <wurp2> ledzgio: Just write the code on your pc for a python app using 480x640 screen, and copy to the neo
Apr 17 17:20:29 <wurp2> and install the needed python opkgs the way I listed earlier
Apr 17 17:20:32 <zedstar> BT staff can probably afford to gold plate them too
Apr 17 17:20:33 <ScaredyCat> or write it on the neo
Apr 17 17:20:41 <wurp2> If you have *specific* api needs, ask about them
Apr 17 17:20:44 <ledzgio> and if i want to use some hardware function?like accelerometers or something else??
Apr 17 17:20:53 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: true too
Apr 17 17:20:57 <ScaredyCat> ledzgio: you have an 02?
Apr 17 17:21:29 <wurp2> ledzgio: There are no docs for that stuff afaik, and if there were, they would be wrong by the time you could execute the code on the FR
Apr 17 17:21:45 <zedstar> shud setup a "pimp my neo" wiki page to see who can mod theirs the most
Apr 17 17:21:51 <ScaredyCat> you can't emulate the accs afaik
Apr 17 17:22:07 * ScaredyCat mods zedstar's using a sheep
Apr 17 17:22:09 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: "can't" is a strong word
Apr 17 17:22:31 <ScaredyCat> wurp2: you're gonna pick up your desktop and wave it about?
Apr 17 17:22:35 <ledzgio> so now i can't use the hardware specific of neo?
Apr 17 17:22:44 <zedstar> Barrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Apr 17 17:23:22 <ScaredyCat> ledzgio: you here just t the point when we are expecting the gta02 (with accs) 
Apr 17 17:23:27 <kdean06> I have a picture of my cat as my Neo's wallpaper, and his orange coat matches the GTK theme well. :)
Apr 17 17:23:35 <ScaredyCat> the old gta01 does not have them
Apr 17 17:24:26 * ScaredyCat thinks it's cruel to spray your cat just to match your desktop
Apr 17 17:24:40 <Basheri> =DD
Apr 17 17:25:06 <zedstar> i can probably find one cat to match if they change the theme as i have 4
Apr 17 17:25:08 <ledzgio> ok..so just generic python app??
Apr 17 17:25:08 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: Just pointing out that with enough code, all things are possible
Apr 17 17:25:55 <ScaredyCat> wurp2: you're a python programmer... you have to use a bucket load of code just for hello world :)
Apr 17 17:25:57 <ScaredyCat> :P
Apr 17 17:26:13 * summatusmentis should learn python
Apr 17 17:26:59 * ScaredyCat has a book...
Apr 17 17:27:02 <ScaredyCat> well, a pdf
Apr 17 17:27:20 <ScaredyCat> but even the text is boring...
Apr 17 17:27:26 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: ?
Apr 17 17:27:38 <wurp2> print "Hello world"
Apr 17 17:27:43 <zedstar> how many shared libraries get loaded to run hello world in python? 
Apr 17 17:27:45 <ledzgio> is there an msn app for the neo?
Apr 17 17:27:47 <ScaredyCat> I don;t want to
Apr 17 17:27:55 <zedstar> how does python actually work
Apr 17 17:28:07 <CVirus> python can be learned in 10 minutes
Apr 17 17:28:16 <ScaredyCat> zedstar: it uses 1.12TB of libraries
Apr 17 17:28:19 <wurp2> ledzgio: I would start off with generic python code, dummying out functions to provide access to any hw interaction you need
Apr 17 17:28:37 <ScaredyCat> ledzgio: pidgin works on it
Apr 17 17:28:39 <zedstar> scaredycat yer not wrong
Apr 17 17:28:40 <wurp2> ScaredyCat: troll ;-)
Apr 17 17:28:54 <ScaredyCat> wurp2: not a toll, a python hater  ;)
Apr 17 17:28:55 <zedstar> actually i dont know but curious
Apr 17 17:29:17 <ScaredyCat> but I have the book, so I'll read it while on the toilet or something
Apr 17 17:29:22 <zedstar> the process of a python app runing...i presume some shared libraries exist and are loaded but how big are they etc
Apr 17 17:29:36 <ScaredyCat> 1.21jiggabytes
Apr 17 17:29:51 * zedstar pinches ScaredyCat
Apr 17 17:30:01 <ScaredyCat> gneh!
Apr 17 17:30:27 <CM> Who talked about flash in OM? Gnash status update at: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9454721484.html
Apr 17 17:30:49 <ScaredyCat> flash.... ahhhh saviour of the universe....
Apr 17 17:31:01 <zedstar> Gordons Alive!
Apr 17 17:31:03 <summatusmentis> ScaredyCat: where'd you get your book?
Apr 17 17:31:14 <ScaredyCat> amazon
Apr 17 17:31:34 <summatusmentis> mm
Apr 17 17:31:40 <ScaredyCat> iirc it's the first one listed if you go to th books page and type in python
Apr 17 17:31:48 <summatusmentis> oh, ok, cool
Apr 17 17:32:00 <wurp2> summatusmentis: Look at "Dive into Python" online
Apr 17 17:32:07 <Basheri> Dive into python is nice, since the pdf version is free
Apr 17 17:32:10 <summatusmentis> wurp2: alright, will do
Apr 17 17:32:13 <wurp2> afaik there aren't really any printed python books that are better than the online ones
Apr 17 17:32:16 <summatusmentis> peace all
Apr 17 17:32:25 <wurp2> other than ppl w/ no neo being able to read them on the toilet
Apr 17 17:32:27 <ledzgio> thanks very much to everyone helped me
Apr 17 17:32:34 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r210 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (Makefile org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml.in): otapi: start adding docs
Apr 17 17:32:35 <ledzgio> and sorry for my bad english
Apr 17 17:32:39 <ledzgio> i'm italian
Apr 17 17:32:40 <Basheri> *pdf, html etc.
Apr 17 17:32:54 <wurp2> ledzgio: np; you should see my Italian
Apr 17 17:33:02 <ledzgio> :)
Apr 17 17:33:12 <ScaredyCat> you should see my website :)
Apr 17 17:33:57 <zedstar> do i need paypal?
Apr 17 17:34:04 <ScaredyCat> no
Apr 17 17:34:06 <Basheri> you should see my python... no wait that sounds creepy
Apr 17 17:34:09 <ScaredyCat> it's a .it domain
Apr 17 17:34:25 <ledzgio> why .it domain?
Apr 17 17:34:33 <zedstar> trouser snake eh
Apr 17 17:34:42 <ledzgio> do you like the .it word?
Apr 17 17:34:55 <ScaredyCat> well, originally I was after fuck.it ... but that had gone
Apr 17 17:35:05 <ledzgio> ohh
Apr 17 17:35:10 <ledzgio> ok
Apr 17 17:35:11 <zedstar> ah yeh...some countries are useful
Apr 17 17:35:12 <ScaredyCat> so i went for automated.it 
Apr 17 17:35:18 <ledzgio> :)
Apr 17 17:35:30 <ScaredyCat> because it was originally about home automation
Apr 17 17:35:53 <ScaredyCat> ... automated it ... geddit
Apr 17 17:35:59 <zedstar> fuck.it be good for your resume email
Apr 17 17:36:11 <ledzgio> you've to translate in italian too
Apr 17 17:36:11 <CVirus> LOL
Apr 17 17:36:15 <ledzgio> lol
Apr 17 17:37:04 <CVirus> You guys mind if I link to my latest blog post here ? ... as I want to know the comments of the people involved in the FLOSS community ?
Apr 17 17:37:05 <zedstar> i would call in someone for interview just for that
Apr 17 17:38:24 <ScaredyCat> CVirus: yeah, we can spam your blog if you like
Apr 17 17:38:34 <CVirus> cool http://cvirus.net/?p=75
Apr 17 17:38:36 <CVirus> :-D
Apr 17 17:38:39 <CM> ScaredyCat: We'd never do that... :P
Apr 17 17:39:21 <ledzgio> what you think about android framework?
Apr 17 17:39:22 <ScaredyCat> cool idea CVirus
Apr 17 17:39:35 <ScaredyCat> ledzgio: it's not open ource
Apr 17 17:39:48 <ScaredyCat> s/ ource/source/
Apr 17 17:39:49 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: ledzgio: it's not opensource
Apr 17 17:39:51 <ledzgio> you can develop your apps too
Apr 17 17:39:51 <doc|work> ScaredyCat: hey, where do you get off speaking for all of us. Personally I wanted to see the two of them punching the heads off each other :(
Apr 17 17:40:57 <ScaredyCat> doc|work: what are you whinging about 
Apr 17 17:41:03 <ScaredyCat> oh..
Apr 17 17:41:06 <ScaredyCat> the video
Apr 17 17:41:08 <ScaredyCat> thing
Apr 17 17:41:11 <doc|work> yeah :)
Apr 17 17:41:12 <ScaredyCat> righ
Apr 17 17:41:30 <ScaredyCat> you're just like my wife... completely off topic
Apr 17 17:41:40 <ScaredyCat> and expecting me to know wtf you are on about
Apr 17 17:41:48 <CM> Hehe
Apr 17 17:41:54 <doc|work> and not only that, I *also* won't have sex with you
Apr 17 17:41:59 <CVirus> ScaredyCat: if the idea is applied too all CS schools in the world :-D
Apr 17 17:42:00 * doc|work runs
Apr 17 17:42:09 <CVirus> ScaredyCat: imagine the amount of contribution
Apr 17 17:42:20 <ScaredyCat> CVirus: yeah, excellent idea imho
Apr 17 17:42:31 <ScaredyCat> doc|work: she has to sleep >:)
Apr 17 17:42:37 <CVirus> cool
Apr 17 17:43:26 <doc|work> ScaredyCat: :)
Apr 17 17:45:32 <ScaredyCat> CVirus: now all we need is for you to limit the foss project to openmoko :)
Apr 17 17:45:55 <CVirus> hehe
Apr 17 17:46:00 <ledzgio> guys i want to do an app that can sent http request to a web site and print the result...which python library??
Apr 17 17:46:01 <CVirus> it's a hypothetical situation !
Apr 17 17:46:12 <CVirus> in my very own virtual world
Apr 17 17:47:01 * ahven kuulab: Summer Girls - Best Of The 90's - LFO (x«amarok)
Apr 17 17:47:32 * ahven kuulab: Now It's Over -  - J Magik & Wickaman Feat. Kathy (x«amarok)
Apr 17 17:48:07 <ScaredyCat> libcurl ftW!
Apr 17 17:48:08 <doc|work> me eyes ahven 
Apr 17 17:48:14 * ScaredyCat slaps ahven
Apr 17 17:48:16 <wurp2> ledzgio: I think you're better off for those kinds of questions just googling
Apr 17 17:48:30 <ledzgio> yes you're right
Apr 17 17:48:30 <ScaredyCat> why would you want us to know that you listen to bad music ahven
Apr 17 17:48:32 <ledzgio> :)
Apr 17 17:48:45 <ScaredyCat> yeah, 
Apr 17 17:48:50 <ahven> ScaredyCat, it was in that collection :(
Apr 17 17:49:04 <ScaredyCat> cos python needs 100000's libs for that, it'd take wurp2 all wek to tell you
Apr 17 17:49:06 <ledzgio> i've to go, bye
Apr 17 17:49:10 <ledzgio> and thanks again
Apr 17 17:49:18 <ScaredyCat> s/wek/week/
Apr 17 17:49:18 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: cos python needs 100000's libs for that, it'd take wurp2 all week to tell you
Apr 17 17:50:00 * ScaredyCat pokes at wurp2 with a poking stick
Apr 17 17:50:11 <ScaredyCat> ~lart you all
Apr 17 17:50:12 * apt strangles you all with a doohicky mouse cord
Apr 17 17:50:12 <ledzgio> :)
Apr 17 17:50:22 <ledzgio> better in java then python?
Apr 17 17:50:30 <doc|work> argh
Apr 17 17:50:35 * ScaredyCat falls off chair
Apr 17 17:50:46 <ledzgio> does openmoko supports java?
Apr 17 17:50:52 <ScaredyCat> visual basic
Apr 17 17:50:59 <ScaredyCat> :>
Apr 17 17:51:19 <ledzgio> i don't know visual basic
Apr 17 17:51:24 <ledzgio> i like java
Apr 17 17:51:30 <mjr> somebody did reportedly get phoneme (j2me) to run on qvfb or something, would want to run directly on X but it's a start...
Apr 17 17:52:15 <Stephmw> ledzgio: investigate JaLiMo
Apr 17 17:52:34 <ScaredyCat> fecking web 2 naming..
Apr 17 17:53:22 <ScaredyCat> i'D pRefeR It If peOplE WoUlD gEt It rIgHt
Apr 17 17:54:29 * ScaredyCat points wurp2 @ scap
Apr 17 17:55:04 <doc|work> openmoko supports vb?
Apr 17 17:55:17 <ScaredyCat> i was being facecious
Apr 17 17:55:38 <CVirus> [19:41] <ledzgio> better in java then python?
Apr 17 17:55:38 <CVirus> [19:42] * ScaredyCat falls off chair
Apr 17 17:55:39 * SpeedEvil does his monkey impression at ScaredyCat.
Apr 17 17:55:39 <CVirus> ROFL
Apr 17 17:55:54 <CVirus> guys ... take it easy on ScaredyCat
Apr 17 17:56:01 * zedstar does a David Brent dance
Apr 17 17:57:00 <ScaredyCat> I think you added a line there CVirus!
Apr 17 17:57:28 <CVirus> heh
Apr 17 17:58:19 <ScaredyCat> are you flicking poo again SpeedEvil?
Apr 17 17:59:32 <ScaredyCat> ^----- bet he's hears all the jokes
Apr 17 18:00:08 <wurp2> ledzgio: It's just one lib for http, but I don't remember the name for sure and I wanted to discourage you from asking me the name of each python library you want to use :-)
Apr 17 18:00:27 <ScaredyCat> it's probably a wrapper lib
Apr 17 18:00:44 <ScaredyCat> around 1000000's lines of code in 500 libs.. 
Apr 17 18:00:57 <doc|work> anyone got any time, based on where we are and barring any problems, until shipping? rough guess?
Apr 17 18:01:02 <ledzgio> :) scaredycat you love python!!!!!!
Apr 17 18:01:04 <ScaredyCat> mushroom mushroom
Apr 17 18:01:39 <ScaredyCat> ledzgio: whitespace... it uses whitespace... wtf
Apr 17 18:01:52 <ScaredyCat> that's just wank#
Apr 17 18:01:55 <ScaredyCat> -#
Apr 17 18:02:15 <ScaredyCat> oooh look at me:
Apr 17 18:02:22 <ScaredyCat>     I'm pyyython
Apr 17 18:02:41 * doc|work passes ScaredyCat brainfuck docs
Apr 17 18:02:52 * ScaredyCat mutters
Apr 17 18:05:16 <wurp2> ledzgio: I don't have the energy or time to dismiss ScaredyCat's worthless arguments, but do take some time to read both pro & anti python arguments before making a final decision.  Or just learn enough to write a simple app; it doesn't take long and you can see if you like it or not.
Apr 17 18:05:35 <zedstar> 32Gig iPhone wtf
Apr 17 18:06:37 <doc|work> zedstar: for when you're not raped enough by the 8gb one
Apr 17 18:07:35 <zedstar> yeh althought that is kinda cheap now with the price cut
Apr 17 18:07:46 <doc|work> cheap in every sense
Apr 17 18:07:56 <zedstar> ?169 then crack it
Apr 17 18:07:57 <doc|work> paying for 'certified' apps? thanks but no thanks
Apr 17 18:08:13 <doc|work> freerunner++
Apr 17 18:09:08 <ledzgio> ok wurp2 i'll follow your advice
Apr 17 18:10:43 <ScaredyCat> pppfft - wurp2 just knows I'm right
Apr 17 18:12:10 <wurp2> I've just already had one screaming match in here about python vs C (I'm not anti-C, btw), and if you want to argue with me about it, just search the logs for it and argue with yesterme
Apr 17 18:12:34 <zedstar> u cud just install Scheme it is one shared library
Apr 17 18:12:38 * zedstar hides
Apr 17 18:13:16 <wurp2> zedstar: once I get common lisp down solid, I'll take a good look at Scheme :-)
Apr 17 18:13:53 <zedstar> Scheme is a bit more hardcore as it doesnt include all those nice bells n whistles of common lisp etc
Apr 17 18:14:01 <zedstar> so is much smaller runs on anything
Apr 17 18:14:51 <zedstar> wurp2 if u do check out chicken scheme cos it is for practical kinda stuff
Apr 17 18:15:47 * zedstar checks to see if unknown_lamer is about
Apr 17 18:17:35 <zedstar> i actually program in C but embed Scheme like u wud embed Lua etc to do things i cant be arsed in C
Apr 17 18:17:47 <unknown_lamer> zedstar: hello
Apr 17 18:17:59 <ScaredyCat> moko?
Apr 17 18:18:11 <zedstar> unknown_lamer heheh thought id wake u from the dead
Apr 17 18:18:51 <unknown_lamer> zedstar: clisp is pretty small ... 3M heap usage at start
Apr 17 18:19:01 <unknown_lamer> zedstar: load a ton of useful libraries and it only inches up to 8-10M
Apr 17 18:19:13 <`pwgen`> init=/bin/emacs ..... 
Apr 17 18:19:29 <unknown_lamer> I want emacs on my freerunner eventually
Apr 17 18:19:36 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: python is only 1 meg at start ;-)
Apr 17 18:19:52 <unknown_lamer> but does python have all of the functionality of CL at start?
Apr 17 18:20:10 <zedstar> scheme doesnt have much functiionality at start ill give u that :)
Apr 17 18:20:19 <wurp2> unknown_lamer: I don't think python ever has all the functionality of CL, unless you write a CL emulator in it
Apr 17 18:20:56 <unknown_lamer> 3M isn't bad given the large size of the base common lisp library, an ffi, readline, clx, bdb, etc
Apr 17 18:20:58 <wurp2> but then C doesn't have nearly the functionality of python
Apr 17 18:22:15 <unknown_lamer> C without the boehm GC is a huge PITA and you end up with terrible memory consumption issues once you start manipulating lists of things and whatnot because you cannot do structure sharing with manual memory management (I mean, you *could* do refcounting, but then you have issues with cycles and writing your own list types and a thousand other evil evil evil things and caveats)
Apr 17 18:23:07 <quicksand> Everything has all the functionality of everything else, given sufficient libraries.
Apr 17 18:23:07 <quicksand> So program in whatever you want an' quit yer bitchin'
Apr 17 18:23:23 <zedstar> lol
Apr 17 18:23:37 <unknown_lamer> there are limits to what you can do in C (closures is the first big one)
Apr 17 18:23:40 * ScaredyCat programs in 1's and 0'
Apr 17 18:23:41 <ScaredyCat> s
Apr 17 18:23:51 <zedstar> choose your sword
Apr 17 18:23:52 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r211 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml.in: docs++
Apr 17 18:24:00 <mickeyl> spyre: ping?
Apr 17 18:24:19 <`pwgen`> c -> compiler language ... python script ( precomiled language )  to compare c an python is like comparing  apples and oranges
Apr 17 18:24:46 <zedstar> ah but there are script languages that compile to C
Apr 17 18:24:48 <ScaredyCat> orpple
Apr 17 18:25:03 <ewon> eiffel
Apr 17 18:25:04 <ScaredyCat> vala...
Apr 17 18:25:16 <ScaredyCat> isn;t that some sort of thing tlike that?
Apr 17 18:25:23 <zedstar> yeh
Apr 17 18:25:34 <`pwgen`> .. precompiled to meta language -> compiled or assembed to binary 
Apr 17 18:25:34 <ScaredyCat> for lazy people.. :P
Apr 17 18:25:36 <unknown_lamer> zedstar: sure, but that's not quite the same (try hand writing equivalent functionality). It's like saying that there are languages that compile to machine code
Apr 17 18:25:42 * ScaredyCat tickles mickeyl
Apr 17 18:26:07 * mickeyl chuckles
Apr 17 18:26:16 <wurp2> Just limber up your alt key and cat > a.out
Apr 17 18:26:27 <zedstar> does eiffel compile to c?
Apr 17 18:27:46 <wurp2> zedstar: Sure, just use the C code implementing eiffel and use your eiffel program as an input file
Apr 17 18:28:08 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: will you be able to comment on specific applications for GSoC after the students are chosen?
Apr 17 18:28:26 <`pwgen`> real coders code cp con: foo.com .... (:-))
Apr 17 18:28:30 <ericjames> I apologize in advance, as this question is off topic.  I have not found an appropriate freenode room, and I really admire the work you have all put into wireless development.
Apr 17 18:28:41 <zedstar> wurp2 implement your own eiffel interpreter in C u suggesting?
Apr 17 18:29:08 <zedstar> wurp2 or compiler even
Apr 17 18:29:20 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r212 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml.in: add GetAntennaPower() -> b
Apr 17 18:29:45 <ScaredyCat> wasn't tat a statement not a question ericjames?
Apr 17 18:29:52 <ScaredyCat> s/tat/that/
Apr 17 18:29:53 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: wasn't that a statement not a question ericjames?
Apr 17 18:30:01 <mickeyl> summatusmentis: a bit, yes
Apr 17 18:30:13 <ericjames> I have been searching fruitlessly for days to find a solution to connecting my mobile phone (razr v3c with no service provider) to my lan connection via usb.  Does anybody know if this is possible without adding additional hardware to the phone?
Apr 17 18:30:17 <ScaredyCat> summatusmentis: what are you going for?
Apr 17 18:30:35 <summatusmentis> mickeyl: ok, I'd just be looking for feedback on the app(why it wasn't chosen, etc.)
Apr 17 18:30:51 <mickeyl> *nod*
Apr 17 18:31:04 <ericjames> I am looking to use it to test web development for mobile browsers, and possibly as a VoIP phone.
Apr 17 18:31:08 <ScaredyCat> :o
Apr 17 18:31:10 <unknown_lamer> april 20th is so close I want to see what lispnyc chose (*crosses finger* maybe clisp mulithreading)
Apr 17 18:31:11 <zedstar> a GSoC project to implement Fizz Buzz
Apr 17 18:31:12 <ScaredyCat> summatusmentis: ...
Apr 17 18:31:13 <wurp2> zedstar: Well, at some point in the past the eiffel compiler must have been written in C
Apr 17 18:31:13 <icman> a//quit
Apr 17 18:31:18 <wurp2> So there's your starting point
Apr 17 18:33:03 <ericjames> The best solution I have come across is enabling it as a bluetooth headset and using some softphone application.  This, obviously, won't help me to recieve a network signal on the phone.
Apr 17 18:33:51 <wibbit> unknown_lamer: What special about the 20th?
Apr 17 18:33:54 <zedstar> wurp2 yeh i dont even remember what eiffel syntax even looks like now....i just remember the OO book we did used it
Apr 17 18:34:15 <ericjames> I am beginning to doubt that the phone is capable of this without soldering a network adapter into the phone.
Apr 17 18:34:41 <ericjames> any ideas would be greatly apriciated/
Apr 17 18:35:05 <CIA-41> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r213 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/README: otapi: add doc info to README
Apr 17 18:35:32 <wibbit> ericjames: If it supports native USB, can you not get a USB to Ethernet device?
Apr 17 18:37:00 <ericjames> wibbit, I have a usb capable modem.  The phone just needs to know to look for a network connection via usb, not a cellular network connection
Apr 17 18:38:01 <doc|work> wibbit: and does the razr? if not, no matter what hardware you get it won't work :/
Apr 17 18:38:39 <unknown_lamer> wibbit: accepted gsoc applications are announced
Apr 17 18:38:43 <unknown_lamer> or maybe it was the 21st
Apr 17 18:39:06 <wibbit> unknown_lamer: bummer, there was me hoping it would be related to another moko announcement :)
Apr 17 18:39:14 <zedstar> gta03
Apr 17 18:39:18 <zedstar> is coming out
Apr 17 18:39:25 <unknown_lamer> wibbit: openmoko is going to announce their gsoc students too sooo :-)
Apr 17 18:39:32 <doc|work> zedstar: ?
Apr 17 18:40:24 <zedstar> doc i was just being a fool
Apr 17 18:40:29 <wibbit> unknown_lamer: not quite the announcement I was hoping for :)
Apr 17 18:40:33 * doc|work stabs :(
Apr 17 18:41:23 <ericjames> I am not sure if this could be accomplished using special drivers, or if there is any available linux firmware that could be flashed to the phone, or, again, if the phone's hardware is not capable of a usb network connection.
Apr 17 18:42:12 <ericjames> I have really been looking into it extensively, but I have not found any answers.
Apr 17 18:42:47 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: yeah, announcement is on the 21st
Apr 17 18:43:11 <wurp2> ericjames: Why not just buy an OM phone?
Apr 17 18:43:14 <summatusmentis> unknown_lamer: Google wants to announce I think :)
Apr 17 18:43:23 <zedstar> ericjames is this the linux razr? isnt monta vista the people behind that linux?
Apr 17 18:44:11 <ericjames> zedstar: it is now the linux razr2, it is an older Razr v3c
Apr 17 18:44:25 <doc|work> there's a linux razr? 
Apr 17 18:44:43 * doc|work has a slvr he'd like to see linux on, moto software = pants
Apr 17 18:44:50 <ericjames> wurp2: the phone was donated, I am not looking to purchase a phone to accomplish this
Apr 17 18:44:55 <zedstar> ericjames from what i remember mont vista were involved in that? maybe try them
Apr 17 18:45:16 <ericjames> zedstar: thankyou
Apr 17 18:45:30 <zedstar> monta vista even
Apr 17 18:45:42 <ericjames> doc|work: the razr2 v8 and v9 run linux
Apr 17 18:45:54 <doc|work> cool
Apr 17 18:46:58 <alphaone> ericjames: The v9 does?
Apr 17 18:47:05 <alphaone> I though that one didn't
Apr 17 18:47:07 <ericjames> I personally don't like the phone much, lol.  again, it was donated "in the name of science" as I thought I might be able to connect it to my LAN
Apr 17 18:47:42 <ericjames> alphaone: I'm sorry, that may be inaccurate.  the V8 does for sure
Apr 17 18:49:18 <wurp2> ericjames: I think you'll spend much more of your time fighting your phone than it would take to earn the money to buy an OM :-)
Apr 17 18:53:40 <zedstar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR?
Apr 17 18:53:49 <zedstar> yeh ues MontaVista OS
Apr 17 18:59:03 <crunsher> hallo
Apr 17 19:01:06 <wurp2> crunsher: goodbye
Apr 17 19:02:25 <doc|work> o.O
Apr 17 19:02:29 <mwester> nice of him to wave as he passed through
Apr 17 19:03:19 <zedstar> depends what it was he waved
Apr 17 19:15:03 <crunsher> is anybody there?
Apr 17 19:15:15 <zedstar> nobody here but us chickens
Apr 17 19:15:15 <summatusmentis> I am
Apr 17 19:15:21 <summatusmentis> yeah, and the chickens
Apr 17 19:16:19 <crunsher> why is it so silent in this room?
Apr 17 19:17:06 <wurp2> crunsher: It was so silent because you said hello then immediately left :-)
Apr 17 19:17:56 <summatusmentis> crunsher: well, what's there to talk about? we're all waiting for FreeRunner :)
Apr 17 19:18:03 <crunsher> thx, and now i will also left this room :P
Apr 17 19:18:32 <crunsher> yes i also can't wait for my trisoft order
Apr 17 19:22:06 <summatusmentis> why does he come in here?
Apr 17 19:22:19 <zedstar> to chat apparenlt
Apr 17 19:22:21 <zedstar> y
Apr 17 19:22:37 <summatusmentis> well, he comes, says hi, and then leaves
Apr 17 19:22:56 <wurp2> He's just flipping channels.
Apr 17 19:22:56 <zedstar> yeh not great chat
Apr 17 19:47:27 <eugeneoden> anyone had any luck building openmoko-keyboard lately?
Apr 17 19:48:47 * summatusmentis has not tried
Apr 17 19:52:21 <cb22> is it in any way possible for a dc device to run off just positive?
Apr 17 19:54:33 <wurp2> cb22: Nope
Apr 17 19:54:59 <wurp2> cb22: You have to have a circuit, although I think you can use ground as the other side of the circuit
Apr 17 19:55:12 <wurp2> but it has to be a real ground, and the other side of your power source has to be grounded too
Apr 17 19:55:13 * SpeedEvil nods.
Apr 17 19:55:13 <cb22> wurp2: then i am tripping crazy
Apr 17 19:55:31 <SpeedEvil> However - 'ground' can be suppied by signal grounds in other connectors
Apr 17 19:56:17 <cb22> would a ide cd drive powered by another psu plugged into a mobo powered by a dc psu count?
Apr 17 19:56:21 <mwester> Or in certain cases, sufficient capacitance can permit the flow of current for some period of time, despite no real complete circuit.
Apr 17 19:56:35 <SpeedEvil> cb22: yes
Apr 17 19:56:44 <SpeedEvil> cb22: if you have grounded outlets
Apr 17 19:56:54 <mwester> There are many grounds on the IDE connector.
Apr 17 19:57:04 <cb22> ah ok  :) i thougu,,
Apr 17 19:57:08 <mwester> and I think even a power line or two, at least on the 2.5 " drives
Apr 17 19:57:13 <SpeedEvil> Two
Apr 17 19:57:18 <SpeedEvil> on 3.5"
Apr 17 19:57:22 <cb22> thought i was going crazy
Apr 17 19:57:25 <SpeedEvil> and 2.5" on reflection too.
Apr 17 19:57:43 <SpeedEvil> Though tehre are lots of signal grounds on 2.5"
Apr 17 19:57:43 <cb22> nr though?
Apr 17 19:57:49 <SpeedEvil> nr?
Apr 17 19:58:00 <cb22> not recommended*
Apr 17 19:58:21 <mwester> Oh no, not recommended AT ALL!
Apr 17 19:58:24 <cb22> on a crappy cell phone
Apr 17 19:58:39 <cb22> ehm, woops
Apr 17 19:59:07 * cb22 unplugs before the black smoke
Apr 17 20:00:24 * mwester recalls years ago when a bank in Chicago had many many problems with a big computer... finally after weeks of failures and replacement of the same parts, a tech noticed the shield on a ribbon cable was hot -- a ground had opened between two assemblies, and all the PSU current was flowing through the I/O bus ribbon cable.
Apr 17 20:01:57 <cb22> ouch
Apr 17 20:03:00 <cb22> imagine wasting all that cash on hardware when a little cable is simply broken
Apr 17 20:03:23 <SpeedEvil> cash on hardware is utterly irrelevant in most cases.
Apr 17 20:03:36 <SpeedEvil> It's cash wasted on having the thing down.
Apr 17 20:03:42 <SpeedEvil> s/most/many/
Apr 17 20:04:09 <cb22> for sure
Apr 17 20:04:32 * cb22 needs a freerunner
Apr 17 20:05:06 <cb22> its gonnabe the  remote control
Apr 17 20:05:16 <cb22> for my go-cart
Apr 17 20:05:26 <summatusmentis> that's not as cool
Apr 17 20:05:27 <mwester> SpeedEvil is right.  The real cost was in the down-time, and the field-service engineering time to go onsite repeatedly, for a simple wiring error.  :(
Apr 17 20:06:02 <cb22> summatusmentis ?
Apr 17 20:06:25 <cb22> btw any SOC news?
Apr 17 20:06:31 <mmontour> On the topic of grounding problems - http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
Apr 17 20:06:37 <summatusmentis> cb22: having an open source phone is way cooler than a remote control go-cart
Apr 17 20:07:22 <cb22> but when you combine them...
Apr 17 20:07:35 <summatusmentis> mmm
Apr 17 20:08:18 <cb22> 'just slide your finger across the screen'
Apr 17 20:12:36 <ScaredyCat> NOTE: package emacs-22.0.50+cvs20060801: completed
Apr 17 20:12:36 <ScaredyCat> NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 287 tasks of which 248 didn't need to be rerun and 0 failed.
Apr 17 20:12:36 <ScaredyCat> NOTE: build 200804171918: completed
Apr 17 20:13:45 <no_mind> how many applications did OM received for Gs0C ?
Apr 17 20:14:29 <mwester> ScaredyCat:  You wish an alternate operating system for your phone, then?  ;)
Apr 17 20:14:51 <kdean06> I can't build qtopia images. :(
Apr 17 20:15:15 <summatusmentis> no_mind: 62 apps, last I heard was 10 slots
Apr 17 20:15:32 <ScaredyCat> mwester: unknown_lamer wanted emacs
Apr 17 20:15:36 <no_mind> wow
Apr 17 20:16:09 <mwester> rwhitby had emacs on the GTA01 many months ago; it worked -- but he had to fit it on the SD card!
Apr 17 20:18:12 <ScaredyCat> [s]he just mentioned it so I built it.. haven't even looked at the size
Apr 17 20:18:20 <wurp2> summatusmentis: OM is getting 10 GSoC slots!?
Apr 17 20:18:47 <summatusmentis> wurp2: that's what I heard... I don't remember where
Apr 17 20:18:52 <wurp2> wow, very nice!
Apr 17 20:19:05 <summatusmentis> I think it was a prelim number, that may have changed
Apr 17 20:20:09 <summatusmentis> wurp2: so don't quote me on that :)
Apr 17 20:20:25 <wurp2> You mean you were bullshitting, and now you're backpedaling? ;-)
Apr 17 20:20:49 <summatusmentis> lol, no, I definitely heard that, but it was before all orgs had put their requests in, etc.
Apr 17 20:20:59 <wurp2> heh, cool
Apr 17 20:22:06 <cb22> summatusmentis, bt the 4000 dollar question :p
Apr 17 20:22:19 <summatusmentis> ...
Apr 17 20:22:43 <cb22> how are your chances
Apr 17 20:23:22 <cb22> dum dum dum
Apr 17 20:24:35 <summatusmentis> hi abraxa_
Apr 17 20:24:41 <summatusmentis> and abraxa__
Apr 17 20:28:18 <cb22> abraxa is currently updatin his website
Apr 17 20:28:55 <summatusmentis> what's his website?
Apr 17 20:29:09 * summatusmentis should stalk abraxa__
Apr 17 20:29:17 <cb22> google for abraxa
Apr 17 20:29:26 <cb22> 1st results
Apr 17 20:30:09 <summatusmentis> oh, joke, I get it :)
Apr 17 20:30:28 <cb22> no, no joke
Apr 17 20:30:44 <cb22> thats his site for real
Apr 17 20:30:50 <summatusmentis> sadistic delights?
Apr 17 20:31:39 <cb22> yep
Apr 17 20:32:06 <wurp2> So is abraxa also the f/22/MN I see like 3 places down after a search?
Apr 17 20:32:20 <cb22> yep
Apr 17 20:32:33 <wurp2> wow, I didn't know we let chicks hang out in here
Apr 17 20:32:45 <summatusmentis> everyone knows there aren't girls on the intertubes
Apr 17 20:33:04 <doc|work> there aren't? then what the f**k are we doing here?
Apr 17 20:33:07 <doc|work> :(
Apr 17 20:33:14 <wurp2> doc|work: lol
Apr 17 20:33:37 <wurp2> Although SpeedEvil's email addy was dolores something...
Apr 17 20:33:47 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
Apr 17 20:34:20 <wurp2> SpeedEvil: I woulda sworn the addy you gave me for buying screen protectors was something like that
Apr 17 20:34:33 <wurp2> It seemed incongruous with some commentary I've seen from you ;-)
Apr 17 20:34:38 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 17 20:34:46 <SpeedEvil> no - that was my mums paypal
Apr 17 20:34:57 <wurp2> Ah
Apr 17 20:35:09 * SpeedEvil is male!
Apr 17 20:35:12 * SpeedEvil checks.
Apr 17 20:35:15 <SpeedEvil> Yup!
Apr 17 20:35:15 <wurp2> ew
Apr 17 20:35:18 <summatusmentis> uh huh... sure, that's what they all say
Apr 17 20:35:50 <wurp2> summatusmentis: As long as they check themselves instead of asking me, I'm perfectly comfortable taking their word for it.
Apr 17 20:39:24 <unknown_lamer> oh yay a bitbake package for emacs already exists
Apr 17 20:40:59 <cb22> but it requires more space to build then a full OM imaq
Apr 17 20:41:12 <cb22> image*
Apr 17 20:41:37 <quicksand> I said yesterday I'd build illume and report back here -- but alas, no love from the openomoko download servers; all of the packages failed during fetch.  Would be nice if someone would straighten that crap out!
Apr 17 20:42:05 <quicksand> I'll have to try again later.  Every second build fails for some ridiculous reason.
Apr 17 20:42:25 <quicksand> (Since the beginning of time.)
Apr 17 20:43:47 <cb22> have yo made your sacrifices?
Apr 17 20:47:38 <quicksand> Wait, what?  Chickens?  Goats?  Virgins?  Virgin chickens?
Apr 17 20:48:07 <wurp2> You should make a bernt_ offering
Apr 17 20:48:24 <wurp2> Virgin chickens are too hard to fine
Apr 17 20:48:27 <wurp2> s/fine/find/
Apr 17 20:48:28 <apt> wurp2 meant: Virgin chickens are too hard to find
Apr 17 20:48:40 <quicksand> Around your place maybe
Apr 17 20:48:49 <wurp2> >;-)
Apr 17 20:48:53 <quicksand> ;-)
Apr 17 20:49:06 <wurp2> Why did the pervert cross the road?
Apr 17 20:49:17 <quicksand> I should know this one!
Apr 17 20:49:25 <wurp2> 'cause he was stuck in the chicken.
Apr 17 20:51:41 <wurp2> Don't everyone lol at once!
Apr 17 20:53:10 <doc|work> roflcopter
Apr 17 20:53:51 <cb22> lmaoplanes
Apr 17 20:54:56 <cb22> actually you see, the chicken has no concept of what a road is
Apr 17 20:55:24 <cb22> therefor it cannot have a motif
Apr 17 20:55:37 <wurp2> I like a nice fried motif for my chicken
Apr 17 20:55:41 <doc|work> motive you unix nutjob :)
Apr 17 20:56:01 <cb22> haha
Apr 17 20:56:10 <wurp2> That's the best flavor of nutjob to be!
Apr 17 20:56:18 <doc|work> thank fuck you laughed, I was wondering would that get me kicked :)
Apr 17 20:56:43 <cb22> eww nutjob
Apr 17 20:56:48 <wurp2> :-)
Apr 17 20:57:07 <wurp2> I thought throwing flavor in the same sentence with it might get a rise
Apr 17 20:57:10 <cb22> have*
Apr 17 20:57:12 <wurp2> as it were
Apr 17 20:57:22 <doc|work> cb22: no one *has* motif, do they?
Apr 17 20:57:27 <linuxxr> ythey will cros the road to kick your ass though
Apr 17 20:57:30 <wurp2> I didn't know cb22 was big guns in here
Apr 17 20:57:41 <cb22> openmotif?
Apr 17 20:57:59 <cb22> wurp2 nope
Apr 17 20:58:08 <doc|work> right, but in context of 'have openmotif' it doesn't really work
Apr 17 20:58:21 <cb22> im not sure who is
Apr 17 20:58:42 <cb22> have an open motif
Apr 17 20:59:06 <doc|work> Ganneff and mickey|zzZZzz are the only people with ops here
Apr 17 20:59:47 <Ganneff> hm?
Apr 17 21:00:44 <cb22> you haz teh ops?
Apr 17 21:01:01 <Ganneff> what do you want?
Apr 17 21:01:27 <wurp2> Nobody wants anything, just don't ban us plz
Apr 17 21:01:34 <wurp2> We were just discussing who has ops
Apr 17 21:01:42 <wurp2> or doesn't
Apr 17 21:01:55 <Ganneff> then do that in query - or find something to discuss that actually fits topic. thanks. :)
Apr 17 21:02:15 * doc|work reenters box
Apr 17 21:03:17 * flexd wonders why random people have decided to join the channel and count the amount of ops
Apr 17 21:03:29 <flexd> it's time for zZzZ, night :)
Apr 17 21:04:00 * cb22 doesnt think wurp2 is a random person
Apr 17 21:04:10 <wurp2> Thank you, cb22
Apr 17 21:04:19 <wurp2> :-)
Apr 17 21:04:45 * flexd has no clue and marks you both as randoms with a giant random-stamp!
Apr 17 21:04:53 <Ganneff> no. enough. thanks.
Apr 17 21:04:58 <Ganneff> s/no/now/
Apr 17 21:04:58 <apt> Ganneff meant: now. enough. thanks.
Apr 17 21:05:14 <wurp2> But for the record, doc|work (also not a random person) was the one wondering about who has ops, and woke the ops beast.
Apr 17 21:08:37 <quicksand> WTF.  G_nn_ff seems grumpy.  ObOnTopic: My Openmoko builds make me grumpy too.
Apr 17 21:09:43 <quicksand> Maybe just saying the name triggers sirens and lights in HQ.
Apr 17 21:10:30 <wurp2> Well, in irssi starting a message with someone's name highlights the channel in yellow
Apr 17 21:10:35 <wurp2> for them
Apr 17 21:11:26 <Ganneff> no, its red, but what has this todo with this channel?
Apr 17 21:11:49 <wurp2> I wasn't really aware that irc etiquette prohibited us from chatting about random stuff while no one has any on-topic discussion.
Apr 17 21:12:07 <wurp2> So, later
Apr 17 21:30:33 * ScaredyCat slaps mtn people
Apr 17 21:30:40 <ScaredyCat> merge it !!
Apr 17 21:30:41 <ScaredyCat> merge it !!
Apr 17 21:31:15 <ScaredyCat> mtn: note: branch 'org.openmoko.dev' has multiple heads
Apr 17 21:31:24 <ScaredyCat> I bet one of them is dick
Apr 17 21:31:27 <ajbrun> hi, ignoreing any music that would be on there, how much memory is likley to be used for the freerunner and all the programs that are likley to be installed?
Apr 17 21:31:46 <ajbrun> not sure if 16gb or 32gb card is needed (assuming 32gb is out)
Apr 17 21:31:54 <ajbrun> and assuming i have 8gb music
Apr 17 21:32:14 <ajbrun> or is that all still an unknown for now?
Apr 17 21:33:35 <SpeedEvil> I don't think larger than 8G microSD is available.
Apr 17 21:33:51 <ajbrun> oh - didn't realise it was microsd
Apr 17 21:33:51 <SpeedEvil> as to likely install - that should be _well_ under 1G
Apr 17 21:34:00 <ajbrun> thought it was SDHC :p
Apr 17 21:34:04 <ajbrun> standard size
Apr 17 21:34:09 <SpeedEvil> No.
Apr 17 21:34:13 <ajbrun> kk
Apr 17 23:05:02 <summatusmentis> i can haz freerunner nao?
Apr 17 23:07:09 <ewon> no
Apr 17 23:07:15 <doc|work> never
Apr 17 23:07:48 <summatusmentis> pweez?
Apr 17 23:11:12 <freebzh_jabber> because
Apr 17 23:12:29 * summatusmentis is bored out of his mind
Apr 17 23:28:02 <CVirus> can I has a freerunner 2 ?
Apr 17 23:55:04 <balrog-kun> freerunner 2 -- is that same as freerunner?
Apr 17 23:55:17 <d3vice> wtf?
Apr 17 23:55:19 <balrog-kun> or do you want two freerunners?
Apr 17 23:57:21 <balrog-kun> oh, i'm dumb
Apr 18 00:03:49 <balrog-kun> (but i have a neo)
Apr 18 00:10:33 <freebzh_jabber> balrog-kun : there is not freerunner 2
Apr 18 00:10:53 <freebzh_jabber> because the first one isn't out yet
Apr 18 00:32:34 <CVirus> 2 as in too
Apr 18 00:50:39 <Donson_> Does anyone have a good resource for building MokoMakeFile errors?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 18 01:21:56 2008
Apr 18 02:19:05 <rtm> Does Openmoko use XFree86 for its X11 system?
Apr 18 02:19:48 <summatusmentis> I think it's a shrunk down x server
Apr 18 02:20:16 <raster> xorg - kdrive build
Apr 18 02:20:49 <rtm> Thanks.
Apr 18 02:21:19 <raster> does it much matter though? :)
Apr 18 02:21:23 <raster> we use X11
Apr 18 02:21:39 <raster> thats pretty much standard across many os's and architectures
Apr 18 02:21:42 <summatusmentis>  http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/kdrive.html that says it's xorg
Apr 18 02:21:45 <raster> makes it easy to write apps for OM
Apr 18 02:21:52 <summatusmentis> it's not xorg*
Apr 18 02:22:01 <raster> kdrive is xorg
Apr 18 02:22:04 <raster> its in the xorg tree
Apr 18 02:22:21 <raster> it builds from the same src tree as the xorg modular server
Apr 18 02:22:30 <raster> difference is kdrive has a different acel arch (kaa)
Apr 18 02:22:41 <raster> and builds the driver monolithically into the same binary as the xserver
Apr 18 02:22:51 <raster> it tends to be smaller and leaner too with no cfg file
Apr 18 02:23:23 <rtm> Here's my real problem.   I'm trying to use my neo as an X server for remote clients, and it frequently fails due to missing fonts.   I'm trying to figure out where I can get the full font set, and where I should put a softlink to the microSD card so that the fonts will be found.
Apr 18 02:25:04 <raster> aaaah
Apr 18 02:25:15 <raster> xset fp ...
Apr 18 02:25:17 <raster> man xset
Apr 18 02:25:22 <raster> :)
Apr 18 02:25:37 <rtm> raster: Thanks!
Apr 18 02:25:55 <raster> (you can add directories to the font path or remove them etc. with xset)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 18 02:59:56 2008