**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 20 02:59:56 2008 Apr 20 03:59:18 good evening all Apr 20 04:18:27 Anyone around that would care to help with getting Freerunner working under qemu? Apr 20 04:20:01 I'm following the guide on the wiki, which is written for gta01, so I adapted openmoko/env for gta02, but flash.sh gives me tons of "s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20" messages Apr 20 04:30:16 KNY: How'd you get an '02? Apr 20 04:30:25 ? Apr 20 04:30:48 DO you actually have a gta02? Apr 20 04:30:59 the hardware? no Apr 20 04:31:08 Oh, sorry. Apr 20 04:31:11 haha Apr 20 04:31:16 I'm trying to set up the emulator Apr 20 04:34:55 the 01 images work fine Apr 20 04:36:05 Well, I don't know what the problem is, but I vaguely remember hearing about the problem on this channel some time ago. , It's tedious, but you could search the archived IRC logs. Apr 20 04:39:54 I did and the result was me, the last time I had this problem Apr 20 04:40:01 which I solved by, again, using the 01 images Apr 20 04:40:06 :) Apr 20 04:40:13 Ooops Sorry again! Apr 20 04:40:21 haha, no worries Apr 20 04:41:27 looks like I'll just wait until I get the device Apr 20 04:41:29 thanks Apr 20 08:00:03 hello y'all Apr 20 08:02:35 I wish you, Sup3rkiddo, and all others a wonderful sunny morning! Apr 20 08:03:07 edistar, its sunny as hell Apr 20 08:03:15 40 C here Apr 20 08:03:35 where ? Apr 20 08:03:40 Chennai Apr 20 08:04:31 * edistar migrates himself to Chennai Apr 20 08:04:44 bleh Apr 20 08:08:19 India :-D Apr 20 08:08:43 yay Apr 20 08:09:00 CVirus, you looked it up..didnt ya? Apr 20 08:11:25 yup Apr 20 08:23:48 Guys, any idea how much will OM.com cost for the shipping to the USA ? Apr 20 08:32:57 hello late night fresh developers Apr 20 08:34:15 hallo Apr 20 08:35:45 oh man i wish my halo cd didnt break Apr 20 09:12:23 /habing trouble building mokomakefile Apr 20 09:12:42 anyone else out there ready to see the sunrise? Apr 20 09:14:13 you assume everyone is in your timezone ;-) Apr 20 09:14:30 the sun set almost 5 hours ago here Apr 20 09:17:00 woah... Apr 20 09:17:20 maybe its the gallons of moutain dew but you just blew my mind Apr 20 09:19:00 rose 3 hours ago noe. Apr 20 09:19:02 w Apr 20 09:20:32 hello friends Apr 20 09:21:03 The sun may not know us the same, but we are all one nonetheless Apr 20 09:22:04 i want some of that mountain dew u been drinking it sounds good :) Apr 20 09:22:14 haha, yeah.. i was thinking the same thing Apr 20 09:22:29 Donson is either a bot, or high on mountain dew Apr 20 09:22:58 Or both Apr 20 09:22:59 lol Apr 20 09:23:18 I AM NOT A BOT Apr 20 09:23:47 Let's do a Turing test :-p Apr 20 09:24:06 Turing test? Apr 20 09:24:13 most people on IRC wouldn't pass that Apr 20 09:24:18 Turine? Apr 20 09:24:20 u gotta be pretty wasted to be accused of being a bot lol Apr 20 09:24:25 the drug in energy drinks Apr 20 09:24:30 haha Apr 20 09:24:45 lol Apr 20 09:24:53 i would agree, but i was once convinced of being a robot in real life Apr 20 09:25:02 convinced = accused Apr 20 09:25:23 bitch thought i was too smart to be a humanoid Apr 20 09:25:28 ... i mean human Apr 20 09:25:29 Donson is a bot Apr 20 09:26:06 haha Apr 20 09:26:08 what is a bot Apr 20 09:26:11 "These aren't the droids you're looking for..." Apr 20 09:26:12 how can i be a bot Apr 20 09:26:18 obi wan Apr 20 09:26:29 talking about my bros c3po and R2 Apr 20 09:27:35 Donson: what kind of an animal is this? http://tinyurl.com/23dd2h Apr 20 09:28:14 looks like my old kitty Apr 20 09:28:47 but far more fierce looking Apr 20 09:29:09 good ol splenda was very passive Apr 20 09:29:44 until she ate sugar and splenda in one sitting and got very sick :( Apr 20 09:31:48 do you guys know what the -r0 or -r1 means at the end of these package names mean? Apr 20 09:32:48 Donson: package revision. when the upstream sources stay the same, but there are packaging fixes (changes in dependencies or compiler flags, etc.) the revision is increased. Apr 20 09:34:38 thanks Apr 20 09:37:29 Guys, any idea how much will OM.com cost for the shipping to the USA ? Apr 20 09:37:51 CVirus: I'll hand-carry you one for $4k! Apr 20 09:37:53 man, did anyone else have a terrible time building mokomakefile? Apr 20 09:38:04 Donson: it has issues Apr 20 09:38:19 :( Apr 20 09:38:34 any alternatives to putting 2007.2 on my neo? Apr 20 09:38:47 SpeedEvil: excuse me ? Apr 20 09:39:10 donson u can just download images and flash them Apr 20 09:39:56 I tried that, it didnt change Apr 20 09:40:10 haha i guess i didnt do it right hten Apr 20 09:41:25 using mokomakefile is just gonna end up building images which u still need to flash so not really gonna help u much Apr 20 09:42:55 hmmm Apr 20 09:43:18 ive not flashed my neo for sometime but the process is well documented on the wiki Apr 20 09:43:18 so I can flash the new OM just like i did it originally? Apr 20 09:43:55 yeah I thought I followed it Apr 20 09:44:03 donson have u done the nand erase kernel and nand erase rootfs etc stuff before flashing Apr 20 09:44:06 but I ended up with the same old version Apr 20 09:44:16 No I did not Apr 20 09:44:47 donon check that on the wiki and do that first before flashing Apr 20 09:45:12 donson make sure it do it correctly else u will brick the device.. eg supply a value to nand erase Apr 20 09:45:46 ok Apr 20 09:45:55 yeah i read that and got scared so didnt do it haha Apr 20 09:50:22 donson after u flashed successfully u can then just update from the command line Apr 20 09:57:39 i jsut erased rootfs and kernel, do I need to flash uboot then? Apr 20 10:00:30 Donson: afaik no Apr 20 10:01:42 cool Apr 20 10:01:46 whats afaik mean? Apr 20 10:02:00 as far as I know Apr 20 10:05:38 nice Apr 20 10:05:49 haha i feel ive learned more today than all semester Apr 20 10:07:06 Donson: good! Apr 20 10:10:10 A question for anyone that would like to comment Apr 20 10:10:38 I would like to write an app that simply sens an sms text message of "hello" Apr 20 10:10:50 how difficult will that be? Apr 20 10:15:47 how old is your uboot? Apr 20 10:16:08 Donson: take a look at smstools3 Apr 20 10:17:24 i'll do that thanks Apr 20 10:17:40 Donson: you can also talk to the gsm modem directly and use AT commands Apr 20 10:19:07 edistar|afk: yeah I was able to do that. Am I able to put something like that in an app? Apr 20 10:19:59 Donson: why not :) Apr 20 10:20:09 Donson: e.g. with python Apr 20 10:20:20 or any other language ;) Apr 20 10:20:25 awesome Apr 20 10:20:55 Donson: although I'd recommend using emdete s pygsmd Apr 20 10:21:14 Donson: sms works since yesterday I think Apr 20 10:28:31 anyone do pyhton here? Apr 20 10:42:17 me me me Apr 20 10:42:25 but not "do" it Apr 20 10:42:40 "chickens do not use motif"? :P Apr 20 10:46:19 hello all Apr 20 10:47:19 Hi Charlie Apr 20 10:48:11 I am new to openmoko Apr 20 10:48:18 Sup3rkiddo: what module do I need for array ? Apr 20 10:48:24 me too Apr 20 10:48:29 how are you doing so far? Apr 20 10:48:40 "ImportError: No module named array" Apr 20 10:48:45 I live in Taipei and I will start to work for the company next month Apr 20 10:48:46 ScaredyCat bleh, import syp3rarray Apr 20 10:48:53 ScaredyCat, are you doing this on the neo? Apr 20 10:48:57 yes Apr 20 10:49:11 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r227 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (6 files in 2 dirs): timeouts for sim access raised Apr 20 10:49:12 python-core doesnt have the array module Apr 20 10:49:25 I've noticed! Apr 20 10:49:37 right now I am just gathering information about the community Apr 20 10:50:14 there's lots to read charlie137 :) Apr 20 10:50:25 Sup3rkiddo: so errm, what do I do.. Apr 20 10:50:36 I don't see a module for arrays in oe Apr 20 10:50:38 i know :) Apr 20 10:50:40 ScaredyCat, maybe install python-misc Apr 20 10:50:47 maybe? Apr 20 10:50:59 i havent used "array" on the neo Apr 20 10:51:02 bleh Apr 20 10:51:25 why on earth aren't arrays in the core? Apr 20 10:51:34 do some people here append to work in openmoko office in Taipei ? Apr 20 10:51:53 it's not in misc Sup3rkiddo Apr 20 10:52:02 i noticed as well Apr 20 10:52:14 some do, but not us charlie137 Apr 20 10:52:34 I have to complete the pond, bbiab Apr 20 10:52:46 maybe math Apr 20 10:53:18 not in match Apr 20 10:53:21 *math Apr 20 10:53:25 * Sup3rkiddo gives up Apr 20 10:54:30 ScaredyCat, whats the task at hand?.. Apr 20 11:17:33 im trying to update my neo, and the ipkg update command fails at a missing file Apr 20 11:17:50 How would i edit the 'ipkg update' file? Apr 20 11:19:48 Sup3rkiddo: ipkg install python-lang Apr 20 11:22:08 wha does that allow me to do? Apr 20 11:22:32 Sup3rkiddo: if you are looking for a specific module, take a look packages/python/python-2.5-manifest.inc Apr 20 11:30:12 mickeyl, oh...thanks..didnt know about that Apr 20 11:30:59 ScaredyCat, python-lang has the array module Apr 20 11:36:20 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r228 10/trunk/software/pyneod/pygsm/ (ficmodem.py genericmodem.py): update network status one more often Apr 20 12:06:03 whats the solution to the git problem with linux-2.6.2.4...make clobber..i remember someone coming here with a similar problem but forgot the fix..=/ Apr 20 12:44:43 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r229 10/trunk/specifications/tools/spec-to-docbook.xsl: tools/spec-to-docbook.xsl: make it aware of our doc:inote (implementation note) Apr 20 12:48:11 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r230 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: Apr 20 12:48:11 freesmartphone.org: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml: add signal "ActivatedCall", rename signal "Status" to Apr 20 12:48:11 freesmartphone.org: "CallProgress". NOTES: Apr 20 12:48:11 freesmartphone.org: 1.) ActivatedCall and ReleasedCall are mandatory signals. You are guaranteed to get them. Apr 20 12:48:15 freesmartphone.org: 2.) CallProgress is an optional signal that's been sent or not based on the modem capabilities. Apr 20 12:58:27 So you are pro charlie137? ^^ Apr 20 12:59:24 pro what ? Apr 20 13:27:01 which timezone is in taipe? +08? Apr 20 13:37:09 Sup3rkiddo: playing with bluez Apr 20 13:37:49 surely arrays are part of the core Apr 20 13:37:54 stupid language Apr 20 13:38:01 ScaredyCat, they are part of the python-lang Apr 20 13:38:07 ScaredyCat, you got lists for that Apr 20 13:38:12 or tuples Apr 20 13:38:15 bleh to yu Apr 20 13:38:57 lists? Apr 20 13:40:10 emdete: yes, +7 or +8, depending on DST Apr 20 13:41:26 ScaredyCat, i thought you use arrays only if you absolutely want to make sure your members are of same type Apr 20 13:41:54 whaT! Apr 20 13:42:10 no? Apr 20 13:42:16 in python Apr 20 13:42:58 arrays in python are more like lists, only that you define the type of the members beforehand Apr 20 13:43:13 foo = array.array('c) Apr 20 13:43:20 creates an array for characters Apr 20 13:43:40 you can't append an integer to it..so foo.append(7) would barf Apr 20 13:43:45 afaik Apr 20 13:44:36 now i feel like an idiot Apr 20 13:46:00 well..i was right :P Apr 20 13:46:11 * ScaredyCat looks at Sup3rkiddo Apr 20 13:46:36 hmm.. Apr 20 13:46:41 * Sup3rkiddo scratches his head Apr 20 13:46:45 where did i goof up? Apr 20 13:48:28 when Apr 20 13:48:30 ? Apr 20 13:48:37 nm :/ Apr 20 13:49:12 ~lart Sup3rkiddo Apr 20 13:49:12 * apt puts Sup3rkiddo through a wood chipper Apr 20 13:53:49 bleh Apr 20 13:54:05 whatever said..python rocks period Apr 20 13:59:19 yeah, bloody python Apr 20 14:03:22 07.07 question: is there any reason to export the type of phonebook entry (145 for when it contains a '+', 129, otherwise) to the dbus interface? Apr 20 14:03:42 I'd say no, we deal with that transparently in the phone server. Apr 20 14:10:18 mickeyl: seems right; phonebook should not be smart when phone server is; should phone book be able to ask (the phone server) whether a phone number is valid? mainly when user enters a number by hand. Apr 20 14:10:35 mickeyl, but there will be a provision for accessing the type? Apr 20 14:10:43 if required Apr 20 14:10:52 i don't think so Apr 20 14:10:56 why do we need that? Apr 20 14:11:06 you can tell by looking at the number Apr 20 14:11:10 whether it contains a + or not :) Apr 20 14:11:17 besides, 145 or 129 doesn't tell you anything ;) Apr 20 14:11:38 * Kero wonders who made up the number, to start with. Apr 20 14:11:42 i think it's just a strange artefact necessary for some feature phones Apr 20 14:11:49 hmm...ok...i was wondering about something like this...gettype(number) Apr 20 14:12:01 what kind of types do you expect? Apr 20 14:12:10 145 and 129 :P Apr 20 14:12:12 ah Apr 20 14:12:13 heh Apr 20 14:12:13 no Apr 20 14:12:21 local, national, international. Apr 20 14:12:29 right Apr 20 14:12:30 or rather, what I have to pay :) Apr 20 14:12:33 that we can talk about Apr 20 14:12:43 but that's not directly related to 07.07, but a higher level functin Apr 20 14:12:47 yup Apr 20 14:12:53 so, ok, i just leave that odd type field out Apr 20 14:13:21 I do not care at a higher level, whether I phone or VoIP. Apr 20 14:13:36 just want to reach the person. costs that I'll make are relevant Apr 20 14:14:07 where the other mobile(!) phone is (country of origin? do I care, except the person might be sleeping inadvertently? :) Apr 20 14:14:43 :) Apr 20 14:14:51 nice stuff we can add to the UI later Apr 20 14:14:58 yeah. Apr 20 14:15:00 so how do i get to know the type through code...i might want to do something like this (if(gettype(number) == international) warn_user...sorry if its a dum question Apr 20 14:15:25 I'm just trying to argue that "local,national, international" is an artefact from the phone campanies, too Apr 20 14:16:42 true Apr 20 14:16:59 Sup3rkiddo: you can do that simply by inspecing the number Apr 20 14:17:32 with the plus in front? Apr 20 14:17:35 ya Apr 20 14:17:59 i wonder how GSM reacts to the '00' prefix which is allowed in some countries as synonym to '+' Apr 20 14:18:07 hehe ok...maybe i am overengineering my thoughts Apr 20 14:18:39 then looking out for + wouldnt be a clean way Apr 20 14:29:08 mickeyl: it's rather a question how the network is configured ;) Apr 20 14:29:35 in .eu i guess it won't be much of a problem Apr 20 14:30:07 ya Apr 20 14:30:40 i was actually surprised when i heard the first time that 00 was not an international standard Apr 20 14:31:44 00 is a bit too close to 000 which is our emergency services line Apr 20 14:31:49 (.au) Apr 20 14:31:53 i guess in the us they dial 01 orso Apr 20 14:32:01 was surprised to hear that too Apr 20 14:32:54 madwoota: if you think "rotary phone" it's a clever choice Apr 20 14:33:25 00 is, 000 for emergency is not Apr 20 14:33:53 Kero: why not? Apr 20 14:34:02 it is easy to route and hard to mis-dial Apr 20 14:34:11 if I need emergency, I'm in a hurry Apr 20 14:34:30 Kero: that's why it's 112 or 110 in .de Apr 20 14:34:53 but they did not chose 111 for a good reason and took the 0 for the same Apr 20 14:36:29 it's rather easy to cause inadvertedly a 1 on a line that supports pulse dialing Apr 20 14:39:51 another nice one: dial 9 to get local numbers outside the company, dial 91 for nonlocal numbers Apr 20 14:40:06 ;) Apr 20 14:40:28 * Kero had a nice surprise when he tried that on a phone that was (contrary to the sticker on it) not on the company network Apr 20 14:40:53 your number started with a 1? ;) Apr 20 14:41:01 yup! Apr 20 14:43:00 or so I tried. Apr 20 14:43:20 btw, numbers in the USA that seem local, may not be. Apr 20 14:43:36 same area code, needed to use it nevertheless. Apr 20 14:44:19 where mobile phones in .nl all start with 06, in the USA they start with an arbitrary (can be your choice!) area number. Apr 20 14:45:13 You would have to ask the network whether number is local or not. Either way, I think I really only care what it'd cost if I'd dial the number now. Apr 20 14:45:28 and now I'm off. Apr 20 15:22:46 hi Apr 20 15:23:03 no update on the freerunner since last week? Apr 20 15:25:49 Stupid Q: URL for reporting openmoko bugs? Apr 20 15:26:10 'opkg list' appears to lock the whole OS if you run it with no inet connection Apr 20 15:26:25 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r231 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (README org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.xml.in): otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.xml: fully documented Apr 20 15:26:49 wurp2: bugs.openmoko.org Apr 20 15:32:19 mickeyl: thanks Apr 20 15:32:36 I'm gonna add a wiki page that says that ;-) Apr 20 15:33:21 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r232 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (2 files): otapi: docs++ Apr 20 15:33:28 heh Apr 20 15:33:31 well Apr 20 15:33:38 usually you just start with openmoko.org Apr 20 15:33:43 and then see the list of all subsites Apr 20 15:33:52 Searching the wiki for bug or defect gave 0 hits Apr 20 15:34:01 Hmm, I don't think I've ever hit openmoko.org Apr 20 15:34:39 hehe Apr 20 15:34:41 have fun Apr 20 15:34:41 mickeyl, speaking of bugs, does fso have a bug tracker ? =) Apr 20 15:35:50 sure thing Apr 20 15:36:00 take a look at http://www.freesmartphone.org/mediawiki/index.php/Infrastructure Apr 20 15:36:17 it does.?..i looked around at the linux 2go site.. Apr 20 15:36:49 correct Apr 20 15:37:02 but ahem..its empty Apr 20 15:37:10 the actual URL is: http://projects.linuxtogo.org/tracker/?group_id=11 Apr 20 15:37:16 yeah Apr 20 15:37:19 good, isn't it? Apr 20 15:37:21 no bugs yet Apr 20 15:37:23 bah Apr 20 15:37:46 what did you expect? the only thing release is the MUXer yet Apr 20 15:38:22 hmm...true..i was expecting some byte sized tasks in the tracker... Apr 20 15:38:28 ah Apr 20 15:38:35 (i dunno where to start) Apr 20 15:39:19 i think the critical mass has been soon reached Apr 20 15:39:29 then we can start adding tasks Apr 20 15:39:40 hmm..ok...till then Apr 20 15:39:54 till then please help us wrt. otapi specs and odeviced specs Apr 20 15:40:03 that's the top stuff being worked on atm. Apr 20 15:40:17 yay..odeviced Apr 20 15:41:37 no freerunners out yet :( Apr 20 15:42:54 hmm.. when trying to build with the mokomakefile stuff I get some git errors when building the linux-openmoko package... Apr 20 15:43:21 me too Apr 20 15:46:23 later guys Apr 20 15:59:24 native speakers... register { "with", "at", "against" } provider ? Apr 20 16:00:03 Mek, Sup3rkiddo: the revision for linux-openmoko on sane-srcrevs.inc is bogus, change it to autorev and it'll work Apr 20 16:00:34 cesarb, thanks Apr 20 16:00:57 If you have been logging IRC yesterday I explained it to someone else, try to find in the scrollback ;-) Apr 20 16:01:39 cesarb, yes..i do remember you explained it to someone...but forgot what it was :0 Apr 20 16:02:16 * cesarb mumbles something about "stable" trees Apr 20 16:07:37 great, this POS multitap doesn't have underscore or equals either Apr 20 16:08:00 It really needs a fourth mode besides lowercase/uppercase/numeric for "symbols" Apr 20 16:08:13 Pity, since it's way faster to use than the old one Apr 20 16:13:43 hi Apr 20 16:14:13 is there some update about the freerunner since last week? (sorry to re-answer, i was deconnected) Apr 20 16:18:35 some say final testing probably ends within this month Apr 20 16:19:07 also, it seems the led power consumption thing will be optimized in all sales models Apr 20 16:19:17 hum, it might be a good news if it's real Apr 20 16:25:36 cesarb: how do I change it to autorev (unfortunately I wasn't online yesterday)... just changing the number to autorev gives me the error that autorev is not a valid object name Apr 20 16:26:14 Mek: "${AUTOREV}" Apr 20 16:26:23 ah, okay :) Apr 20 16:26:28 instead of "4164" or whatever the number was Apr 20 16:28:39 hm, funny stuff in cpufreq land Apr 20 16:29:01 the LCM flicker is gone, and I didn't change anything in the code which would cause it to go away Apr 20 16:29:39 and for some reason the screen click sound is working even after a frequency switch, I didn't expect that to happen (I was testing without sound before) Apr 20 16:30:36 also, it seems something is using too much CPU... load average stays above 1 Apr 20 16:34:40 also, the click sound is funny, it's _softer_ when the CPU is at lower frequencies, which doesn't make any sense Apr 20 16:35:19 heh, that's strange Apr 20 16:39:44 * bmk789 is ready for a gnu phone Apr 20 16:40:26 Does anyone know a good tutorial for building a simple app without using mokomakefile? Apr 20 16:41:16 Donson: you mean without bitbake? Apr 20 16:52:17 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r233 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/ (3 files): Apr 20 16:52:17 freesmartphone.org: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.xml: docs++ Apr 20 16:52:17 freesmartphone.org: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.xml: add GetSubscriberNumber and GetCountryCode from org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml Apr 20 16:52:17 freesmartphone.org: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.xml: add documentation for all methods. Apr 20 16:52:24 *phew* Apr 20 16:52:36 :) Apr 20 16:52:40 This isn't a proper open-source project anymore. Apr 20 16:52:43 Docs? Apr 20 16:52:46 Wierd. Apr 20 16:52:46 hahah Apr 20 16:52:48 :D Apr 20 16:52:58 oh-so-boring Apr 20 16:53:13 boring builds character Apr 20 16:53:17 But regrettably handy for thost that don't have the time to memorise all the source. Apr 20 16:53:23 indeed Apr 20 16:53:53 so, dinner now. After that, docs for org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call... Apr 20 16:53:54 l8er Apr 20 16:54:00 :) Apr 20 17:03:52 hm, the flicker REALLY is gone, looks like whatever they did to fix the flicker on '02 fixed it on '01 too, even with lower CPU speeds Apr 20 17:04:11 and I did manage to make the sound subsystem make funny noises! Apr 20 17:05:20 like farting noises? Apr 20 17:05:32 :) Apr 20 17:05:51 * SpeedEvil encourages cesarb to carry on with his pioneering frequency altering work. Apr 20 17:05:54 SpeedEvil, happy mood :p? Apr 20 17:05:55 * SpeedEvil puts away the whip. Apr 20 17:05:59 hehe Apr 20 17:09:53 holy crap! Apr 20 17:10:00 return from suspend works! Apr 20 17:10:20 * cb22 gets a hammer and smashes working resume to pieces Apr 20 17:10:24 except neod appears in the app list Apr 20 17:10:26 there, like it should be. Apr 20 17:11:09 * ScaredyCat thinks it should be in the forground, not the background Apr 20 17:14:21 argh! I lost a key... Apr 20 17:16:27 that's what I get for keeping this thing out of its shell... Apr 20 17:24:02 cia bot broken? Apr 20 17:57:30 ScaredyCat: have you not been watching the kernel mailing list ;) Apr 20 18:13:47 hi Apr 20 18:24:00 thos, is there any documentation about gsm? Apr 20 18:50:53 any news about when the freerunner will be available to buy? Apr 20 18:51:40 last I saw final testing is expected to end within the month. So hopefully soon. Apr 20 18:52:26 mjr: yay, sounds good! Apr 20 19:21:04 hi Apr 20 19:21:10 is the gta02 for sale? Apr 20 19:21:21 not yet Apr 20 19:21:28 when? Apr 20 19:21:56 noone knows for sure, but it be in about four weeks last I read Apr 20 19:22:09 ok Apr 20 19:27:18 is the gta01 phone for sale? Apr 20 19:28:55 eier: pulster.de has a handful left, officially no Apr 20 19:29:10 ok Apr 20 19:29:23 i need one of those Apr 20 19:29:36 i'll sell you mine in 2 weeks Apr 20 19:29:50 gta02? Apr 20 19:29:56 gta01 Apr 20 19:30:16 i think im going to buy a gta02 Apr 20 19:31:02 cool Apr 20 19:31:11 im not very trustworthy anyway Apr 20 19:31:19 hehe Apr 20 19:31:19 Donson: lol Apr 20 19:31:38 !upload Apr 20 19:31:43 ops..wrong chan Apr 20 19:31:45 fuck that shit anyway Apr 20 19:32:00 i sold a book on ebay for 7 bucks and it cost me $10 to ship it! Apr 20 19:32:05 Donson: how much do you want for the gta01? Apr 20 19:32:32 i dunno, I havent looked at prices yet Apr 20 19:32:42 Donson: ok Apr 20 19:33:38 i got the debug board and everything Apr 20 19:33:58 I bought it for a school project and am so frusterated with it i plan to just sell it Apr 20 19:36:02 Donson: if you sell it for $150+ shipping I'm interested ;) Apr 20 19:37:10 damn i hope thats not the price theyre going for Apr 20 19:37:14 i think i paid over 300 Apr 20 19:38:10 Donson: well.. it's a prototype and old.. with the gta02 out Apr 20 19:38:35 yeahh Apr 20 19:38:59 what colour is it Apr 20 19:39:06 im hoping i can just sell it to someone as being what comes after the iphone Apr 20 19:39:08 black/orange Apr 20 19:39:33 good good... Apr 20 19:39:46 Donson: lol.. Apr 20 19:39:47 * ScaredyCat wants one of each colour, for historical reasons Apr 20 19:40:00 * edistar wants a gta01 for his dad Apr 20 19:40:21 I'm not swapping with you edistar Apr 20 19:40:38 does he know you're trading him in? Apr 20 19:41:16 ScaredyCat: not yet Apr 20 19:41:43 ScaredyCat: he is english though ;) Apr 20 19:42:31 not of that foreign tat eh? :P Apr 20 19:42:41 s/not/none/ Apr 20 19:42:42 ScaredyCat meant: none of that foreign tat eh? :P Apr 20 19:48:01 hi all Apr 20 20:29:37 hmm, i've only heard the next gta0* being referred to as GTA04, what is GTA03? Apr 20 20:31:55 I heard it was going to be completly circular. Apr 20 20:32:03 And be the GTA03.14 Apr 20 20:34:35 when i try to compile boot_usb, which might me help to boot, i get several warnings and error 1.... Apr 20 20:37:03 GTA pie Apr 20 20:37:09 mmmmmm Apr 20 20:37:18 Apr 20 20:39:09 I heard it was going to guarantee derivative products to be identical to itself, and called GTA02.72^x Apr 20 20:39:22 (I'll get me coat) Apr 20 20:39:47 Naah - that's the party version. Apr 20 20:40:20 oh, the one with the possibly lethal side effects Apr 20 20:40:46 Actually - statistically speaking - probably safer than alcohol. Apr 20 20:41:20 shan't argue with that Apr 20 22:02:05 hmm.. while trying to build an image with mokomakefile it fails in the do_rootfs task of openmoko-devel-image because mkfs.jffs2 exist with a SIGABRT... Apr 20 22:03:51 Has they started mass production? Apr 20 22:04:02 no Apr 20 22:04:45 Will it happen sometime soon? ;-) Apr 20 22:05:07 yes. Apr 20 22:05:09 Very soon. Apr 20 22:05:13 Real soon now in fact. Apr 20 22:05:33 Oh, thank God! ^^ Apr 20 22:06:22 Heh, definition of soon be tricky :) Apr 20 22:06:29 SpeedEvil: Anyone that I can speak to about mass production phase? just out of personal interest how its done. Apr 20 22:06:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_soon_now Apr 20 22:06:41 I was about to throw my mobile in the trash bin and buy a smart phone. I think I'm waiting a bit then. :P Apr 20 22:06:51 Anyone can tell me what's the battery lifetime, and how good the touchscreen is? (or refer me to some nice benchmark/wiki page :) Apr 20 22:07:06 I know basically how mobile phones are constructed, and have some experience in electronics construction. Apr 20 22:07:08 azaghal: I take bets! 1Euro / minimum :) Apr 20 22:07:27 Azalyn: battery is more a software thing. Hardware wise - it can manage over a week standby. Apr 20 22:07:48 Touchscreen - well - it's a touchscreen. Apr 20 22:07:51 Well, I usually like to know in full-operation mode. Apr 20 22:07:52 What more do you want? Apr 20 22:07:58 Define full. Apr 20 22:08:10 All the hardware working at full capacity. Apr 20 22:08:14 3-5 hours playing full screen video loudly probably. Apr 20 22:08:35 azaghal, that'd be pretty low then Apr 20 22:08:40 As for touchscreen, for example, Nokia 770 has a really bad touchscreen which loses sensitivity quickly. Apr 20 22:08:43 but it's also an insane measurement Apr 20 22:09:01 Maybe 1.5 hours if you have a 500mA USB device attached and are using wifi when on a call too. Apr 20 22:09:21 Ok, that's decent for such a relatively small bugger then :) Apr 20 22:09:23 1.5? sounds like a lot Apr 20 22:09:39 1-1.5 Apr 20 22:09:47 SpeedEvil: How about constant mp3 mplaying? Apr 20 22:10:03 elation: that's easier - 12h+ has been done on the existing hardware. Apr 20 22:10:11 of course, all this with a bluetooth earpiece, keeping a gps lock _and_ playing that video loudly at the same time Apr 20 22:10:22 (underclocked, undervolted, ...) Apr 20 22:10:28 That is acceptable. Apr 20 22:11:00 However. cesarb has some stuff he's playing with - whihc if it works as expected - with GTA01 - should get to 15h+ or so. Apr 20 22:11:16 Not bad at all. Apr 20 22:11:19 ( playing mp3) Apr 20 22:11:33 Lasts longer than my current player :) Apr 20 22:11:47 GTA02 should in principle be a bit better. But I haven't attacked it with a multimeter. Apr 20 22:12:08 [01:03:09] Real soon now in fact. Apr 20 22:12:17 Ehm, sounds like DNF Apr 20 22:12:31 DNF indeed is supplied with the GTA02 :) Apr 20 22:13:04 Do ya mean digital noise filter or duke nukem forever? =) Apr 20 22:13:13 The latter of course! Apr 20 22:13:28 Tought so Apr 20 22:13:40 +h Apr 20 22:13:42 In principle, you can do arbitrary filtering with the GTA01/2 hardware Apr 20 22:13:54 as you can put the audio signal through the CPU effectively. Apr 20 22:13:58 * Mononoke pokes azaghal "we realy should make Dukenukem Whenever game and port it on moko" Apr 20 22:14:19 Mononoke: There is a Duke Nukem FS engine already :) Apr 20 22:14:22 SpeedEvil: You know something about freerunner? Apr 20 22:14:47 Lintus: Nothing specifically about release schedules or stuff. Generalities, yes. Apr 20 22:14:52 Okay Apr 20 22:14:55 So, before I go to sleep - any experiences with quality of touchscreen? (especially since the model has no physical keys for numbers etc) Apr 20 22:15:11 it seems "okay" Apr 20 22:16:16 It's a touchscreen. Apr 20 22:16:21 Touch it, and you get a position. Apr 20 22:16:22 I was just wondering what's going on, coz i havent seen com updates since april 14.. Apr 20 22:16:31 It does exactly what it says on the tin. Apr 20 22:17:08 Heheh, that's not the problem, I just wonder if it will work after 1-2 years of exploatation :) Apr 20 22:17:26 Well, have they passed pvt Apr 20 22:17:42 Lintus, pvt "should" end this month, one hears Apr 20 22:17:46 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r234 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: first bits of docs. G'night. Apr 20 22:18:14 Aha Apr 20 22:20:36 Thanks for all the info ;) Apr 20 22:20:57 SpeedEvil: playing mp3? I'm thinking of pegging the CPU at the maximum speed when the sound is on... Apr 20 22:21:20 cesarb: it took - IIRC - 23% for 128K MP3 at 200MHz Apr 20 22:21:38 cesarb: it worked just fine at 100MHz with about 60% CPU usage Apr 20 22:21:44 SpeedEvil: (mostly because the frequency switching will probably break the sound, it doesn't actually need to be pegged at the maximum... hm making it configurable could be a good idea...) Apr 20 22:22:34 Is the display actually turned off yet? Apr 20 22:22:36 hi anyone here got django running on the Neo1973? Apr 20 22:23:17 SpeedEvil: unless someone else changed it, nope... Apr 20 22:23:40 SpeedEvil: I haven't changed the code much since some weeks ago, only minor changes Apr 20 22:26:02 I can see it's available on the openembedded repository but was just after some war stories in getting in running :) Apr 20 22:33:08 SpeedEvil: Clarify your comment about the display being turned off, please? Apr 20 22:33:19 There are several states. Apr 20 22:33:25 Backlight on, screen active Apr 20 22:33:35 Backlight off, screen active Apr 20 22:33:42 Backlight off, screen inactive Apr 20 22:34:01 At the moment, when the screen blanks, the display does not turn off Apr 20 22:34:05 And does the second of the three states consume significant power, then? Apr 20 22:34:17 it's still dragging 60MB/s out of RAM and painting it to the LCD panel. Apr 20 22:34:34 Which - needless to say - uses power. Apr 20 22:34:46 Aah. And that might also mess up cesarb's freqency changing? Apr 20 22:35:04 No - that's a side problem. Apr 20 22:35:12 And not a really hard one. Apr 20 22:35:27 I don't want to over-trivialize this, but it would seem to me that it's just a matter of calling the suspend/resume methods on the pertinent devices... Apr 20 22:35:36 Or am I missing something? Apr 20 22:35:40 Pretty mucgh. Apr 20 22:36:43 Perhaps I'll play with that a bit. As soon as this last niggling little (!) problem with the GSM and standby/resume is resolved. Apr 20 22:36:47 The framebuffer is just ordinary RAM - you just need to turn the readout off, and configure it back on when it comes back. And turn off the LCD actually. Apr 20 22:37:01 the LCD is seperately powered Apr 20 22:37:40 Right. There are two devices; the "fb" is part of the SoC, the LCD controller is something weird on the SPI bus. Apr 20 22:37:52 "separately" Apr 20 22:37:58 We can power down the SPI too, at least on the GTA01. Apr 20 22:38:16 (there's nothing else on it on the GTA01; the motion sensors are on it on the 02) Apr 20 22:39:02 is it sane to power off... remove the battery while angstrom has halted with screen stuck booted usb? Apr 20 22:39:10 No Apr 20 22:39:23 Not on the GTA01. It may let the magic smoke out of the PMU chip. Apr 20 22:39:35 mwester: for cpufreq, I've made every peripheral driver tell the cpufreq driver which frequencies it can use (simplifying a bit) Apr 20 22:39:54 mwester: if the framebuffer driver is enabled, it tells the cpufreq driver it can't go too low Apr 20 22:39:59 huh? with no battery? Apr 20 22:40:03 broedj1: remove the USB first, then the battery, then reverse the process to power it back up. Apr 20 22:40:04 mwester: it's only that from cpufreq's POV Apr 20 22:40:34 yea Apr 20 22:40:36 broedj1: NEVER leave USB plugged on GTA01 without a battery! Apr 20 22:40:37 broedj1: Yes, powering the GTA01 from USB with no battery results in a very nasty high-frequency whine... Apr 20 22:40:53 of course Apr 20 22:40:59 * cesarb always leaves the cover off as a reminder to put a battery before plugging in Apr 20 22:41:19 many phones have that, i heard Apr 20 22:41:24 cesarb: So which peripherals cause the most trouble, then? Apr 20 22:41:52 though i never saw it happen Apr 20 22:42:46 cesarb: Can a driver ask the cpufreq mechanism to re-evaluate? Apr 20 22:44:48 django anyone :) Apr 20 22:45:12 mwester: yes, and in fact it's done all the time (open the serial and it'll reevaluate and disallow several frequencies where serial doesn't work, for instance) Apr 20 22:45:34 mwester: the most problematic driver is serial in fact Apr 20 22:46:04 mwester: since it has to drain the fifo and use the flow control to stop the other side before doing the switch Apr 20 22:46:31 mwester: but that one is already working, at least with gsmd (didn't test gllin yet, I'm hoping the chip actually obeys the flow control) Apr 20 22:47:09 I'm having serious troubles with flow control and the GSM. Apr 20 22:47:22 mwester: the suspend issues, right? Apr 20 22:47:29 may i boot_usb Angstrom-console-images or openmoko-image for a780 or must i really use the minimal-openmoko.....as long as i use boot_usb i can play a bit, nah? Apr 20 22:47:31 See the kernel or distro or gsm mailing lists for the my cry for help :) Apr 20 22:48:14 mwester: isn't there a separate setting for the GPIO pins state during a suspend? I don't recall if it's shared with a GPIO, but it's possible that the flow control ends up the wrong way around when the serial block is off Apr 20 22:52:14 * cesarb hopes the flow control pins don't end up as high-z instead... since that would only be fixable with a pull-up/down Apr 20 22:59:07 cesarb: that's a good thought; I'll check that. Apr 20 23:04:46 hello, I'm trying to run openmoko in Xephyr/Xoo but it complains about not finding openmoko-today, what is that supposed to be? Apr 20 23:11:57 you have got to be kidding me Apr 20 23:12:02 "released at some time"? Apr 20 23:12:06 * Moniker42 huffs :P Apr 20 23:27:45 uh the openmoko-image (not "minimal") does not seem to have a console to shutdown...am i bricked? Apr 20 23:29:02 course not :) Apr 20 23:46:11 Has anyone done a comparison of the neo GPS with others? Apr 20 23:46:16 (GTA01) Apr 20 23:46:41 I find it has rather crappy filtering and often overshoots and takes ages to correct. Apr 20 23:51:38 maybe you took the wrong gasoline Apr 20 23:52:28 uh Apr 20 23:56:13 http://www.mauve.plus.com/josm.png - as an example - the pink ones are the neo Apr 21 00:27:46 and the real path? Apr 21 00:31:43 Exactly what that was is a matter of argument. Apr 21 00:31:57 However - it was one path driven and then driven back along in the car Apr 21 00:32:15 It was _not_ wobbling all over the place like the pink track does. Apr 21 00:37:34 SpeedEvil: i don't have much to compare to but i find the gta01 gps rather exact Apr 21 00:37:56 SpeedEvil: it makes horrible errors sometimes, but the n810 gps and the gta02 gps can do much worse :) Apr 21 00:38:14 It's fine - statically. Apr 21 00:38:42 Dynamically - it can get 40m+ out. Apr 21 00:39:14 well, the gps system isnt perfect Apr 21 00:39:27 SpeedEvil: yup, quite annoying especially for openstreetmapping Apr 21 00:39:44 Of three GPSs I have running, two are +-2m or so most of the time - as is the neo on easy bits Apr 21 00:39:57 Then it gets confused. Apr 21 00:39:58 SpeedEvil: i use it on bike sometimes and it seems the gps is tuned for going in a car, i.e. making much slower turns and moving less dynamically with more inertia Apr 21 00:40:14 Naah. It sucks for car too :) Apr 21 00:40:30 I guess they turned on the supertanker flag. Apr 21 00:40:51 on the gta02 i got about 600m out today though, in open air Apr 21 00:41:13 sattelites broadcast interval is about 30s, i read at wp Apr 21 00:41:18 the n810 does similar nonsense sometimes Apr 21 00:41:21 zash: it's not that simple. Apr 21 00:42:07 zash: You get some positional information every 1ns or so, every 1ms, every 20ms, every 30s, every 720s Apr 21 00:42:28 When tracking, the 30s is irrelevant. Apr 21 00:42:48 wehn the GPS is on and tracking the satellites that is. Apr 21 00:54:53 i cannot ssh with 202... or whatever to the moto Apr 21 00:55:19 you've Apr 21 00:55:24 hm must read the bootusb again Apr 21 00:55:37 loaded the appropruate module, and ifconfiged the usb interface, and added a route? Apr 21 00:55:44 ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 Apr 21 00:55:51 k sory Apr 21 00:55:54 route add 192.168.0.202 usb0 Apr 21 00:56:51 well... module.. with the phone? at least the "gpe" image x11 does not seem to have a keyboard or such working Apr 21 00:56:55 thnx Apr 21 00:57:10 no - on the host Apr 21 00:57:43 cdc_ether Apr 21 00:59:04 i hope this full debian here has every module ever made Apr 21 01:00:13 hm....for usb? ehm, of course i havent configured ifconfig networking yet.... but what modules do you mean, well thanks Apr 21 01:00:36 the cdc_ether module is a USB ethernet driver. Apr 21 01:00:41 the Neo implements this Apr 21 01:00:48 and pretends to be an ethernet device Apr 21 01:01:11 yes Apr 21 01:02:30 mXP Apr 21 01:03:25 oops Apr 21 01:03:34 wrong input Apr 21 02:51:32 Is rsync the best (or only!) way to "hotsync" data from a neo1973, or is there some tool available that just backs up Calendar, Contacts, etc? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 21 02:59:56 2008