**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 23 02:59:56 2008
Apr 23 04:33:12 <justin_> is there any date set in stone for the consumer release yet
Apr 23 04:40:06 <rtm> gosh, there's no date for the *developer's* release yet.
Apr 23 05:26:41 <ScaredyCat> hrmm... anyone else found their neo in a funny state in the morning ?
Apr 23 05:39:33 * mwester wonders at the question, as if the neo is ever in a "normal" state
Apr 23 06:02:58 <ScaredyCat> well, perhaps not, but twice now about a week apart I've come back to the neo to find it in an apparent off state but the only way to get it to respond in any way is to remove and replace the battery
Apr 23 06:06:03 <cibomahto> ScardeyCat:  That happens to me when I had the 'dim first, then lock' suspend mode selected
Apr 23 06:06:20 <cibomahto> surely you have a more interesting problem :-)
Apr 23 06:46:32 <Mek> okay... my openmoko-devel-image/openmoko-qtopia-image builds succeeded, now only my openmoko-feed build is failing...
Apr 23 06:51:08 <cibomahto> Mek:  Good job.  I haven't gotten an openmoko-devel-image to work in some days
Apr 23 07:04:54 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 23 08:41:38 <josch_> !seen michaelshiloh
Apr 23 08:41:40 <cdbot2> MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@166.129.245.150) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 15 hours, 6 minutes ago stating (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
Apr 23 08:41:46 <josch_> darn
Apr 23 08:52:04 <fish_> can someone clarify that for me: i've read about that 'power management issue' here and there. is that a software-only problem or is there still an issue with the hardware?
Apr 23 09:21:10 <cnwdup> hello
Apr 23 09:23:20 <cnwdup> I am seriously considering ordering a freerunner, but I have a few questions first I couldn't find answers for in the wiki. First: Is phoning possible? Seems as if sending SMS is possibly by now. What's the deal with receiving SMS? How is standby working?
Apr 23 09:24:16 <edistar> cnwdup: phoning is possible
Apr 23 09:25:02 <emilis_info> whatabout battery life?
Apr 23 09:25:27 <edistar> emilis_info: afaik it runs 6h when used actively
Apr 23 09:26:02 <emilis_info> hmm
Apr 23 09:26:05 <emilis_info> and standby?
Apr 23 09:26:13 <cnwdup> edistar: That's good. If it was possible receiving sms as well, I'd buy it right away. But with this not being the case, I am not quite sure. Thus I am interested in what exactly isn't working with receiving sms.
Apr 23 09:26:30 <edistar> emilis_info: I suppose you mean suspend, I think about 60h is manageable
Apr 23 09:26:39 <edistar> cnwdup: it can
Apr 23 09:26:46 <emilis_info> can you receive calls and sms in suspend?
Apr 23 09:26:56 <emilis_info> 60h is decent enough for me, for a linux phone ;-)
Apr 23 09:26:57 <edistar> emilis_info: yes, it wakes up
Apr 23 09:27:01 <emilis_info> cool
Apr 23 09:27:03 <emilis_info> ;)
Apr 23 09:27:13 <edistar> at least usually;)
Apr 23 09:27:20 <cnwdup> edistar: I can receive SMS but it's not able to read them or what? Or is the wiki outdated and it can send *and* receive sms?
Apr 23 09:27:58 <edistar> cnwdup: last time someone asked here some people said that reading and writing sms is possibe
Apr 23 09:28:04 <edistar> *possible
Apr 23 09:28:25 <cnwdup> edistar: Oh, that's pretty cool.
Apr 23 09:28:34 <cnwdup> Thanks for your information. (= I think I'll order today.
Apr 23 09:29:07 <cnwdup> *going to
Apr 23 09:29:32 <emilis_info> where can you order it today?
Apr 23 09:29:45 <emilis_info> shop says it is sold out
Apr 23 09:29:52 <edistar> emilis_info: trisoft.de/openmoko
Apr 23 09:29:56 <cnwdup> emilis_info: On trisoft.de you can pre-order it for the german (european?) market.
Apr 23 09:29:57 <edistar> emilis_info: for europe
Apr 23 09:30:11 <emilis_info> 404
Apr 23 09:30:18 <cnwdup> And it says it'll be shipped at the end of this month.
Apr 23 09:30:27 <emilis_info> ah, redirected to somewhere where it works
Apr 23 09:30:29 <emilis_info> :)
Apr 23 09:30:55 <cnwdup> Are there any reasons against ordering a freerunner now?
Apr 23 09:32:06 <edistar> cnwdup: the usual.. might still be hw bugs that have't been found yet.. but that's na permanent reason
Apr 23 09:32:22 <edistar> cnwdup: so in half a year you might think the same
Apr 23 09:32:34 <emilis_info> hmm
Apr 23 09:32:49 <cnwdup> Yeah, the fact that it's open source and still has its bugs is actually no big deal for me.
Apr 23 09:33:48 <cnwdup> Eh, the bugs are not a big deal. The "open source" thing is actually a huge pro. :D
Apr 23 09:34:47 <edistar> cnwdup: :)
Apr 23 09:41:21 <pyknite> is there a backup manager on the freerunner (for sms/mail/calendar/...)?
Apr 23 09:48:09 <ScaredyCat> scp
Apr 23 09:48:58 <thos> rsync?
Apr 23 09:50:18 <pyknite> hum ok
Apr 23 09:50:55 <pyknite> when i get my freerunner and got time (to work at school) i will see if i can code one (like some software on windoews mobile)
Apr 23 09:52:13 <roh> pyknite well. you could write some ui for rsync or boxbackup
Apr 23 09:52:50 <zedstar> or unison
Apr 23 09:52:51 <pyknite> yeah exactly...
Apr 23 09:53:11 <pyknite> the graphiq tools are gtk? or something else?
Apr 23 09:53:32 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03thomas * r4391 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/opkg.c: opkg: add some safety macros
Apr 23 09:53:36 <zedstar> i think there are some gtk front ends to rsync and unison u can adapt
Apr 23 09:53:45 <roh> pyknite basically everything that can render to x11
Apr 23 09:53:58 <roh> gtk or efl or similar stuff is propably preferred
Apr 23 09:54:09 <roh> your choice
Apr 23 09:54:13 <pyknite> ok... and main language is python? c++?
Apr 23 09:54:35 <thos> pyknite, gtk+ is available on the default images
Apr 23 09:54:47 <pyknite> ok
Apr 23 09:54:51 <thos> pyknite, and python is not available on default images
Apr 23 09:54:54 <thos> yet anyway
Apr 23 09:55:10 <thos> pyknite, I would suggest C and GTK+ if you have the apprioriate experience
Apr 23 09:57:18 <ScaredyCat> syncml !!
Apr 23 09:57:44 <pyknite> ok.. i will read some tut on gtk ;) (and c too, make too many c++ and ada at school :( )
Apr 23 10:00:17 * pyknite ....ada is to boring
Apr 23 10:00:52 <Sup3rkiddo> pyknite, remember, real men directly program using logic gates
Apr 23 10:02:03 <pyknite> Sup3rkiddo: hum... I'm not a men... I'm a student :D
Apr 23 10:02:14 * Sup3rkiddo too :/
Apr 23 10:02:21 <Sup3rkiddo> i am a student man
Apr 23 10:02:59 <pyknite> in dev?
Apr 23 10:10:17 <SpeedEvil> mwester:pin
Apr 23 11:11:53 * ScaredyCat goes a little ott with the btkb script
Apr 23 11:12:11 <SpeedEvil> btkb?
Apr 23 11:12:22 <SpeedEvil> bluetooth keyboard?
Apr 23 11:15:10 <ScaredyCat> yeah
Apr 23 11:15:32 <ScaredyCat> works well now... and I have zenity so it's all wizzy
Apr 23 11:15:40 <SpeedEvil> zenity?
Apr 23 11:15:57 <ScaredyCat> x dialogs for scripts
Apr 23 11:16:06 <SpeedEvil> ah
Apr 23 11:16:16 <ScaredyCat> so now at least you get to pick the keyboard it connects to...
Apr 23 11:16:28 <ScaredyCat> rather than it just attaching to the first one it finds
Apr 23 11:16:53 <SpeedEvil> 'It comes from the same family as dialog, Xdialog, and cdialog, but it surpasses those projects by having a cooler name.'
Apr 23 11:17:05 <ScaredyCat> heheh
Apr 23 11:17:13 <ScaredyCat> well, it works too.
Apr 23 11:17:28 <ScaredyCat> and I couldn;t get xdialog to compile properly 
Apr 23 11:17:48 <ScaredyCat> zenity was a pain - but now it compiles ok
Apr 23 11:18:12 <SpeedEvil> Nice.
Apr 23 11:20:10 <ScaredyCat> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
Apr 23 11:21:16 <SpeedEvil> Now all you need is a flexible configuration script for GPRS :)
Apr 23 11:21:26 <ScaredyCat> :)
Apr 23 11:40:54 <profoX`> hello everyone
Apr 23 11:41:08 <profoX`> does the Openmoko support OpenGL ES?
Apr 23 11:42:03 <SpeedEvil> No
Apr 23 11:42:18 <SpeedEvil> At least - if you're asking 'is it 3D acceleerated'
Apr 23 11:42:39 <profoX`> oh :(
Apr 23 11:42:40 <SpeedEvil> 3D acceleration will not happen in the freerunner
Apr 23 11:43:03 <thos> well, OpenGL ES is supposed to be in there, but no one is planning on writing a driver for it
Apr 23 11:43:09 <thos> and it will probably suck balls anyway
Apr 23 11:43:30 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - it'll 'work' in the sense that it's all software emulated.
Apr 23 11:43:46 <thos> SpeedEvil?
Apr 23 11:43:57 <raster> the only way it will be written is if the specs get out from nda
Apr 23 11:44:02 <thos> SpeedEvil, the glamo chip is supposed to have (some) GLES support
Apr 23 11:44:10 <thos> but like raster says...
Apr 23 11:44:11 <raster> those with nda's dont have the time/money to work on it
Apr 23 11:44:12 <raster> :(
Apr 23 11:44:33 <SpeedEvil> As I understood it , ES supports an emulated mode on dumb framebuffer too
Apr 23 11:44:37 <raster> even if u spent the time - i am very dubious of the qialty of 3d u will experience and if it was worth the effort :(
Apr 23 11:44:38 <SpeedEvil> which is what I meant.
Apr 23 11:45:05 <raster> SpeedEvil:  all GL can be eumlated
Apr 23 11:45:07 <raster> in software
Apr 23 11:45:09 <raster> ... in theory
Apr 23 11:45:10 <SpeedEvil> In that it's just a software 3D library in effect, not significnatly hardware accelerated.
Apr 23 11:45:16 <raster> its just a question of how slow it will be
Apr 23 11:45:17 <raster> :)
Apr 23 11:45:21 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Apr 23 11:45:43 <raster> chances are it will be so slow - continental drift will begin to look interesting and fast
Apr 23 11:45:54 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 23 11:45:58 <raster> u only get a fast software 3d enigne if u cut features and take shortcuts
Apr 23 11:46:11 <raster> and "introcue errors" in rendering that are "acceptable" tradeoffs for speed
Apr 23 11:46:13 <raster> :)
Apr 23 11:46:15 <SpeedEvil> And you have a fast video bus.
Apr 23 11:46:20 <raster> yeah
Apr 23 11:46:20 <raster> that too
Apr 23 11:50:47 * SpeedEvil goes back to routing his graphics board, such as it is.
Apr 23 12:13:27 <Onef> good day to all!!!
Apr 23 12:13:49 <Bubbi> well hello Onef 
Apr 23 12:14:09 <Onef> there are any information about the mass release?
Apr 23 12:14:34 <Onef> in interne I've found many info... but no one are in agree with the others...
Apr 23 12:16:30 <Bubbi> Onef: shh.. it's a secret..
Apr 23 12:17:03 <Bubbi> as the topic suggests.. "The Freerunner phone (with wifi) will be released at some time"
Apr 23 12:17:22 <Bubbi> so no-one really knows yet.. but hopefully soon
Apr 23 12:17:33 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03thomas * r4392 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libbb/ (unarchive.c unzip.c): opkg: fix some initialisation and double free issues in libbb
Apr 23 12:18:46 <Onef> Bubbi: I've read on top :D but I've thought maybe here on IRC someone know somthing more :) 
Apr 23 12:19:50 <Bubbi> Onef: we're all here for the same thing then ;) Everybody wants to know when and what.. but no-one can reply :)
Apr 23 12:20:47 <Onef> eheh understood ;) nevermind we'll wait lil'bit... 
Apr 23 12:21:22 <rtm> I think that CIA-42 guy knows the release date.
Apr 23 12:24:19 <ScaredyCat> ~lart the CIA
Apr 23 12:24:20 * apt takes the CIA to the vet for a "special" visit
Apr 23 12:25:56 * Bubbi don't think you can trust the CIA...
Apr 23 12:28:17 <rtm> The DVT tests involve waterboarding.
Apr 23 12:28:55 <pitbullpc> hi all, anyone seen sameo around?
Apr 23 12:29:17 <ScaredyCat> ~seen sameo
Apr 23 12:29:20 <apt> sameo <n=samuel@AAnnecy-257-1-141-89.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 126d 2h 3m 59s ago, saying: 'CM: let's hope so, yes.'.
Apr 23 12:29:33 <ScaredyCat> that would be a no hten pitbullpc
Apr 23 12:29:52 <pitbullpc> damn, he fell of the face of the earth
Apr 23 12:30:21 <pitbullpc> i was wondering what ever came of the AR6001 driver he was working on
Apr 23 12:31:02 <josch> could someone ping me when michaelshiloh comes online? i would be very grateful - a camisole is at stake!!
Apr 23 12:31:26 <ScaredyCat> whatever information we have is at least 26d 2h 3m 59 old
Apr 23 12:32:20 <ScaredyCat> s/26/126/
Apr 23 12:32:38 <pitbullpc> where might that information be found
Apr 23 12:33:55 <ScaredyCat> google ... or sameo's website (where ever that may be)
Apr 23 12:34:32 <ScaredyCat> lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2008-January/003453.html
Apr 23 12:34:42 <ScaredyCat> last commit
Apr 23 12:38:04 <pitbullpc>  i was curious as to how you arrived the last information being 26 days ago. now, i'm thinking that was his last commit
Apr 23 12:38:31 <pitbullpc> at any rate, thanks for the info
Apr 23 12:39:22 <XorA> his driver work is effectively finished AFAIK
Apr 23 12:39:54 <pitbullpc> last I talked to him he was having significant throughput issues
Apr 23 12:40:18 <XorA> I beleive that was fixed with a firmware update from atheros if I recall the correct problem
Apr 23 12:40:46 <pitbullpc> good deal
Apr 23 12:41:15 <pitbullpc> i also sent him an Eye-fi card to hack at. anyone ever hear anything about that?
Apr 23 12:42:03 <XorA> no
Apr 23 12:42:41 <pitbullpc> do you know what the eye-fi card is?
Apr 23 12:43:47 <XorA> nope
Apr 23 12:44:17 <pitbullpc> it is really pretty impressive. a 2 GB SD card with an embedded AR6001
Apr 23 12:44:45 <XorA> sweet
Apr 23 12:44:57 <XorA> like the old Sandisk Connect+ cards
Apr 23 12:44:58 <pitbullpc> designed to be cofigured via a pc and stuck in a digital camera to wirelessly upload your pics to flickr or whereever
Apr 23 12:45:48 <pitbullpc> http://www.eye.fi/
Apr 23 12:46:01 <mjr> yeah I've heard of it, it's a nifty kludge since digital cameras are so limited in wireless connectivity...
Apr 23 12:46:16 <mjr> I mean come on, gimme at least bluetooth for cheap cams...
Apr 23 12:46:47 <mjr> haha, first vanity fi domain I've seen :)
Apr 23 12:46:55 <mjr> Well, there's sci.fi, but that doesn't count ;)
Apr 23 12:47:27 <pitbullpc> it has special firmware that would need to be changed, but i envision that this card could be hacked to be an easy wireless upgrade to any linux based cell/pda platform that doesn't have wireless and has an SD slot
Apr 23 12:47:43 <pitbullpc> lol
Apr 23 12:48:30 <pitbullpc> not sure with they just didn't use www.eye-fi.com
Apr 23 12:49:15 <mjr> I dunno, the card is rather limited as sold, would probably be a nontrivial firmware hack...
Apr 23 12:49:35 <mjr> don't we have sdio wifi anyways?
Apr 23 12:49:58 <pitbullpc> not in that form factor
Apr 23 12:50:11 <mjr> okay
Apr 23 12:50:32 <anrp> yeah, usually its got extra length and thickness beyond the standard sd size
Apr 23 12:50:52 <anrp> that would be quite handy for a zaurus, for instance
Apr 23 12:51:09 <pitbullpc> since it is the size of a generic SD card it can be completely house within the SD slot
Apr 23 12:51:23 <anrp> of course... many sd card slots are made & surrounded by metal
Apr 23 12:51:23 <pitbullpc> nothing poking out to get broke off
Apr 23 12:51:30 <anrp> so who knows how well it would work
Apr 23 12:52:22 <pitbullpc> that is true, but this thing is supposed to work in older SD digital cameras, and you know they didn't use plastic slot with this in mind
Apr 23 12:53:23 <ScaredyCat> http://dist.trolltech.com/video/wince/qtembedded44video.html
Apr 23 12:53:51 <anrp> wince
Apr 23 12:53:52 <anrp> ~_~
Apr 23 12:53:53 <apt> :/
Apr 23 12:54:14 <anrp> ...
Apr 23 12:56:59 <pitbullpc> if the firmware could be replaced with the normal Atheros firmware for the chip, then this could be extremely easy (provided one has access to an Atheros Radio Test station and the stock firmware)
Apr 23 12:59:00 <Onef> sorry to bother you again... there is some emulation of the current point of the release (usable under Windows...)
Apr 23 12:59:42 * anrp mentally swaps is and there
Apr 23 13:00:10 <mjr> pitbullpc, I don't think it's likely to be hooked up in a way that the normal firmware would be able to function as directed from the host computer, but *shrug
Apr 23 13:01:07 <pitbullpc> well, you would need to have an SD interface to the PC
Apr 23 13:02:12 <pitbullpc> in particular this thing called an Ellen Card (SD to PCI) and the PC would need to run the ART software to reflash the firmware
Apr 23 13:02:55 <YetAnotherNoob> hello everyone. i'm building a devel image for neo1973 - or at least i'm trying - on an debian system. make setup works and after make openmoko-devel-image the system was busy for 2h or so. the process terminated with ERROR: '/home/darkschneider/moko/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb' failed question: how do i find out what is wrong ? looks like the kernelbuild faild ...
Apr 23 13:03:44 <pitbullpc> the harder part would be doing the calibration
Apr 23 13:05:32 <pitbullpc> anyway, i'll give this some more thought and ping some ideas of off some engineers i know at one of the Atheros authorized design centers
Apr 23 13:05:54 <pitbullpc> got to run, take care
Apr 23 13:06:18 <anrp> YetAnotherNoob: maybe post the last 50 lines of the build process to pastebin
Apr 23 13:06:21 <anrp> that isn't really enough to say
Apr 23 13:07:20 <YetAnotherNoob> what is pastebin ?
Apr 23 13:08:46 <anrp> http://pastebin.com/
Apr 23 13:09:00 <anrp> just a tool to help to not clutter irc
Apr 23 13:12:15 <YetAnotherNoob> very well. posted to pastebin.
Apr 23 13:12:54 <anrp> ... now, you have to post the link here so we can see it :\
Apr 23 13:13:40 <YetAnotherNoob> good point. sorry. http://pastebin.com/m6332ff90
Apr 23 13:15:48 <anrp> mmm, it actually failed on coreutils
Apr 23 13:16:02 <anrp> error: short SHA1 4194 is ambiguous.
Apr 23 13:16:13 <anrp> dunno where that 4194 came from
Apr 23 13:16:25 <anrp> maybe post /home/darkschneider/moko/openembedded/packages/coreutils/coreutils-native_5.3.0.bb ?
Apr 23 13:18:11 * ScaredyCat wonders if 1 freerunner could power another from it's usb port creating an endless supply of electricity
Apr 23 13:18:38 <mjr> Good idea. If not, should be a goal for the next-gen device!
Apr 23 13:18:39 <ScaredyCat> it's because someone didn't change the srcrev
Apr 23 13:18:42 <XorA> ScaredyCat: we should ship you two and see if you can end the universe from there
Apr 23 13:18:49 <ScaredyCat> ok..
Apr 23 13:18:52 <YetAnotherNoob> posted: http://pastebin.com/d102279ed
Apr 23 13:18:52 <ScaredyCat> no problem
Apr 23 13:18:58 <ScaredyCat> ship them now! :S
Apr 23 13:19:00 <ScaredyCat> :D
Apr 23 13:19:02 <ScaredyCat> even
Apr 23 13:19:44 <XorA> ScaredyCat: heh, Im first in the Queue for freerunner
Apr 23 13:20:23 <ScaredyCat> don't you just have to reach over to one of hte other desks in the office to get one though?#
Apr 23 13:21:15 * anrp pokes ScaredyCat to elaborate on the srcrev
Apr 23 13:21:37 <ScaredyCat> XorA: just be sure to say 'Yoink!' when you take them
Apr 23 13:21:52 <ScaredyCat> anrp: there was a move from svn to git 
Apr 23 13:22:11 <XorA> ScaredyCat: well as Im a few thousand miles away from office, that would have to be a loud YOINK!
Apr 23 13:22:34 <ScaredyCat> XorA: yoip 
Apr 23 13:22:57 <XorA> Yoink Over Internet Protocol :-)
Apr 23 13:29:12 <Sup3rkiddo> woo...dbus server support for vala :D
Apr 23 13:29:19 <Sup3rkiddo> oops..wrong window
Apr 23 13:33:49 <pvborza> does anyone know Daniel Willmann's nick?
Apr 23 13:39:24 <fgau> pvborza: i think, alphaone
Apr 23 13:41:23 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4393 10/trunk/src/target/audio/om-gta02/gsmhandset.state: loud the voulume of mic
Apr 23 13:43:07 <pvborza> thanks
Apr 23 14:01:46 <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/413/ 
Apr 23 14:03:59 <mwester> SpeedEvil:  pong!
Apr 23 14:04:32 <Bubbi> great fun there :P
Apr 23 14:04:48 * SpeedEvil tries to remember what he was thinking of.
Apr 23 14:05:07 <SpeedEvil> Oh yeah.
Apr 23 14:05:10 * mwester suggests ginsing; it's supposed to be good for memory
Apr 23 14:05:31 <SpeedEvil> Can you give me an exact test that you'd like to do with a scope on the GTA01
Apr 23 14:05:37 <SpeedEvil> to find glitches
Apr 23 14:07:59 <mwester> :)  I'll have to put together some test cases that would be reproducable.  Do you have a working SIM, or do we need to find a way to tickle the GSM w/o SIM?
Apr 23 14:08:07 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Apr 23 14:10:13 <mwester> Ok.  The new day has brought me new suspicions on this; I'll see if this new line of investigation reveals anything before I trouble you.  Thanks!
Apr 23 14:10:20 <Bubbi> SpeedEvil: I believe you need to specify which of the two things, you are saying yes to.. :)
Apr 23 14:11:23 <SpeedEvil> the first
Apr 23 14:11:27 <SpeedEvil> It works.
Apr 23 14:11:32 <SpeedEvil> (the SIM)
Apr 23 14:12:12 * mwester has a prepaid one, and has refilled it several times now in troubleshooting this problem.  This is becoming pricey...
Apr 23 14:14:06 <SpeedEvil> why do you need cash?
Apr 23 14:14:35 <mwester> to send it SMS messages to make it wake up.
Apr 23 14:14:44 <SpeedEvil> Huh?
Apr 23 14:14:49 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Apr 23 14:15:11 <SpeedEvil> I assumed that incoming SMSs are free.
Apr 23 14:15:44 <ScaredyCat> not for americans
Apr 23 14:15:51 <mwester> It will *occaisionally* fail when getting incoming signal quality messages, but the only sure way to cause the overrun is to send a few SMS's, and in the US the recipient is charged per message.
Apr 23 14:15:59 <ScaredyCat> they pay for both ends of a call too
Apr 23 14:16:01 <mwester> It's a huge ripoff.
Apr 23 14:16:24 <SpeedEvil> Yes, I know that - I just forgot.
Apr 23 14:18:51 <ScaredyCat> w000t!
Apr 23 14:19:02 * ScaredyCat just fixed audio on resume!
Apr 23 14:19:07 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 23 14:39:36 <Bubbi> ScaredyCat: so if you wanted somebody to go broke, then you just spam him with a lot of SMS's?!
Apr 23 14:40:04 <Bubbi> poor americans.. they never learn..
Apr 23 14:40:17 <ScaredyCat> I guess so, americans get ripped off over calls...
Apr 23 14:40:34 <summatusmentis> it's not all plans... some providers give you free incoming, mine does
Apr 23 14:40:42 <summatusmentis> but I don't think gsm providers do
Apr 23 14:42:46 <Bubbi> incredible.. in Denmark you don't pay for stuff that you don't have a saying in.. so incomming calls/sms/mms are free of charge.. and IF you need to pay for a service, then you need to interact with the device, accepting to connect..
Apr 23 14:43:15 <I-MOD> in america all the providers want is an arm and a leg! i say let's give it to them!
Apr 23 14:43:15 <Bubbi> but that's only if you are downloading stuff of your own choice
Apr 23 14:44:46 <summatusmentis> Bubbi: yeah, well, the US is seemingly incredibly backward in the way they do mobile stuff
Apr 23 14:45:10 <I-MOD> verizon is soooo great, that they strip all sms/mms down to 160 characters of text with none of the other media if it goes outside their network
Apr 23 14:45:14 <summatusmentis> and by incredibly backward, I mean they want to suck the life and soul out of their consumers
Apr 23 14:45:27 <I-MOD> summatusmentis, agreed
Apr 23 14:45:48 <summatusmentis> I-MOD: they do? my parents won't be getting VZW
Apr 23 14:46:05 <I-MOD> yeah...i have a razr right now, i can't tether with EVDO either
Apr 23 14:46:14 <I-MOD> as verizon expressly forbids it
Apr 23 14:46:23 <summatusmentis> you're not even supposed to be tethering
Apr 23 14:46:52 <I-MOD> it lets me tether with 1xRTT
Apr 23 14:47:02 <summatusmentis> yeah, still forbidden in ToS
Apr 23 14:47:14 <I-MOD> another issue I have with verizon...
Apr 23 14:47:43 <summatusmentis> people out here really life VZW, but they're not paying attention
Apr 23 14:48:29 <I-MOD> the one thing that is awesome is their coverage, when others don't have a signal, i still get signal 90% of the time
Apr 23 14:48:36 * anrp likes a (almost-)world-usable phone a bit more, but dislikes the mostly-lacking-3g in the us
Apr 23 14:48:48 <anrp> so we use verizon for data cards :\
Apr 23 14:49:17 <I-MOD> my company uses gprs/edge data cards through t-mobile for tech support that 
Apr 23 14:49:23 <I-MOD> 's on-call
Apr 23 14:49:26 <summatusmentis> that's why I'm still not sure I'll be able to justify a FreeRunner, because I'll want to use it as my phone, and GSM doesn't work at my parents house
Apr 23 14:49:52 <summatusmentis> I think it works where I go to school though
Apr 23 14:50:20 <I-MOD> gsm coverage where I am is pretty decent
Apr 23 14:50:40 <I-MOD> including the surrounding rural areas (which is surprising and nice)
Apr 23 14:51:23 <summatusmentis> where are you located?
Apr 23 14:51:28 <summatusmentis> if you don't mind my asking
Apr 23 14:51:54 <I-MOD> northern alabama (huntsville if you know the area)
Apr 23 14:52:04 <summatusmentis> ah, I'm in MN
Apr 23 14:52:21 <I-MOD> mmmm....cold weather
Apr 23 14:52:27 <I-MOD> need more of that down here
Apr 23 14:59:00 <ScaredyCat> mwester: ping
Apr 23 15:04:21 <spydon> soon this month has ended too without a released freerunner :'(
Apr 23 15:15:11 <CIA-42> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r243 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: docs++
Apr 23 15:16:24 <summatusmentis> spydon: the month isn't over yet
Apr 23 15:17:00 <summatusmentis> does anyone know why testing for MP is taking so long?
Apr 23 15:18:06 <spydon> summatusmentis, yeah you can always hope they release it before the month is over ^^
Apr 23 15:18:20 <summatusmentis> that's my hope, until May 1
Apr 23 15:20:18 <summatusmentis> Sup3rkiddo: you around?
Apr 23 15:21:17 <spydon> one week :P
Apr 23 15:21:39 <spydon> you better buy a whip :P
Apr 23 15:22:07 <summatusmentis> I don't have $400 anyway, so...
Apr 23 15:23:23 <SpeedEvil> Multiprocessor is a big step.
Apr 23 15:23:33 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03zecke * r0ff5de564e25 10/src/libraries/qtopiaprediction/ (qtopiaprediction.pro wordprediction.cpp wordprediction.h): [prediction] Start extracting the prediction into a library used by other processes
Apr 23 15:23:33 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03zecke * r42ff2ca73828 10/src/libraries/qtopiaprediction/ (qtopiaprediction.pro wordprediction.cpp wordprediction.h): [prediction] Start with the header file
Apr 23 15:23:34 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03zecke * r3019cc28cb1c 10/src/libraries/qtopiaprediction/ (wordprediction.cpp wordprediction.h): [prediction] First implementation of the C Interface, untested
Apr 23 15:23:35 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03zecke * rf39ac37db3b1 10/src/plugins/inputmethods/predictivekeyboard/pred.cpp: [prediction] Fix a wtf. Converting is a char to string is not guaranteed to be null terminated
Apr 23 15:23:50 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: multiprocessor?
Apr 23 15:23:57 <SpeedEvil> MP
Apr 23 15:24:00 <SpeedEvil> ignore me.
Apr 23 15:24:08 <summatusmentis> lol, oh
Apr 23 15:28:37 <CIA-42> freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r244 10/trunk/specifications/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.xml.in: otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.xml.in: docs++
Apr 23 15:37:57 <jmichel> Any ideas why I would get an error like "linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb' failed" when building my image ?
Apr 23 15:39:02 <jmichel> More details here: "error: short SHA1 4194 is ambiguous."
Apr 23 15:39:21 <jmichel> and: "fatal: Not a valid object name 4194"
Apr 23 15:40:31 <CIA-42> openmoko: 03thomas * r4394 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (opkg.c opkg_cmd.c opkg_download.c opkg_download.h): opkg: improve download callback handling and integrate into opkg_update_package_lists
Apr 23 15:41:47 <thos> wooooo!
Apr 23 15:42:00 <thos> opkg_update_package_lists() is pretty much complete!
Apr 23 15:42:45 <ScaredyCat> !logs
Apr 23 15:42:48 <cdbot2> Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at:
Apr 23 15:42:49 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko
Apr 23 15:42:50 <cdbot2> Live-logs are available at
Apr 23 15:42:51 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog
Apr 23 15:42:53 <cdbot2> See ?? help-logs for usage instructions
Apr 23 15:44:35 <ScaredyCat> jmichel: change the rev in openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc to ${AUTOREV}
Apr 23 15:46:36 <ScaredyCat> and you anrp
Apr 23 15:48:45 <jmichel> ScaredyCat: what is anrp?
Apr 23 15:49:03 <ScaredyCat> someone else in here wiht the same issue
Apr 23 15:49:31 <ScaredyCat> t's someone's nick
Apr 23 15:49:48 <ScaredyCat> /'s'
Apr 23 15:53:02 <jmichel> ScaredyCat: I think it worked... it succeeded the fetch part... thanks
Apr 23 15:54:20 <ScaredyCat> np
Apr 23 15:55:33 <SpeedEvil> ScaredyCat: and me
Apr 23 15:56:31 <ScaredyCat> nd you
Apr 23 15:56:34 <ScaredyCat> a
Apr 23 16:34:31 <ScaredyCat> SpeedEvil: 
Apr 23 16:34:32 <ScaredyCat> ping
Apr 23 16:35:23 <SpeedEvil> ...
Apr 23 16:36:40 <ScaredyCat> you said about the 01 have 60m/s to the gpu, but can it actually do that?
Apr 23 16:37:16 <SpeedEvil> In some ways, yes.
Apr 23 16:37:29 <ScaredyCat> i mean, can the cpu throw that much data fast enough
Apr 23 16:37:32 <SpeedEvil> The fundamental write speed is around that order of magnitude.
Apr 23 16:37:52 <SpeedEvil> Of course, you're not really going to get much processing at that rate
Apr 23 16:38:32 <ScaredyCat> is there any data on the speeds currently being used on the 01... 
Apr 23 16:38:43 <ScaredyCat> it seems kinda scarey - the difference
Apr 23 16:38:57 <playya> wow. the qt stuff looks cool
Apr 23 16:39:19 <SpeedEvil> speeds?
Apr 23 16:39:23 <SpeedEvil> It's 200MHz
Apr 23 16:39:57 <SpeedEvil> The display reads data out of main memory at 640*480*2*60 bytes/second
Apr 23 16:40:01 <SpeedEvil> Or 36M
Apr 23 16:40:15 <ScaredyCat> k
Apr 23 16:41:27 <ScaredyCat> right but the bandwidth is 5 times (ish) less on the 02
Apr 23 16:41:38 <SpeedEvil> Um - no.
Apr 23 16:41:42 <SpeedEvil> Ok.
Apr 23 16:41:47 <SpeedEvil> From the top.
Apr 23 16:41:50 <ScaredyCat> k
Apr 23 16:42:00 <SpeedEvil> 02 - CPU - 7M/s pipeline - GPU
Apr 23 16:42:14 <SpeedEvil> GPU refreshes the screen locally using local memory.
Apr 23 16:42:17 <SpeedEvil> 01 - CPU - 
Apr 23 16:42:19 <SpeedEvil> 01 - CPU - LCD
Apr 23 16:42:53 <SpeedEvil> It's directly connected, and refreshes the framebuffer from main system RAM timeshared with normal RAM accesses.
Apr 23 16:43:21 <ScaredyCat> ok.. so th cpu is only concerned with getting the data to the gpu, once it's there the gpu will handle it easing the cpu load
Apr 23 16:43:27 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Apr 23 16:44:28 <SpeedEvil> With a GPU that can do 2D/3D acceleration capably, and video decoding too, it's much less of an issue.
Apr 23 16:44:50 <ScaredyCat> mmm.... if it shares the ram, can you poke it ?
Apr 23 16:44:53 <SpeedEvil> But the 3D acceleration for 02 will likely not be written, and there are performance problems, and it looks like video may not happen either.
Apr 23 16:45:08 <ScaredyCat> :(
Apr 23 16:45:20 <SpeedEvil> It's just - from a sofftware point of view - with GTA01 - another area of RAM
Apr 23 16:45:52 <SpeedEvil> It's just that it's got special hardware that reads that area of RAM constantly out to the LCD at the appropriate rate.
Apr 23 16:46:48 <ScaredyCat> right, so why not write directly to that then?
Apr 23 16:46:59 <ScaredyCat> or is that what's actually happening 
Apr 23 16:47:02 <SpeedEvil> Yes
Apr 23 16:47:10 <SpeedEvil> On 01
Apr 23 16:47:34 <SpeedEvil> On 02, it's connected via an external bus to the GPU
Apr 23 16:47:46 <ScaredyCat> right. ok now I get it
Apr 23 16:53:40 <Weiss_> SpeedEvil: what performance problems? the 7M/s pipeline is simply too much of a bottleneck to get decent (say, OpenGL) throughput?
Apr 23 16:56:17 <SpeedEvil> If you're saying 'blit rectangle from x to y' - then it's completely adequate and very fast.
Apr 23 16:57:08 <SpeedEvil> If you run up against something that the hardware can't quite do - or has no software for - you're reduced to rendering it on the CPU, and painting it on the framebuffer at 7M/second
Apr 23 16:58:04 <SpeedEvil> Which - when the whole screen is a over half a meg - can slow things down and make them jerky.
Apr 23 16:59:49 <ScaredyCat> so only an issue if you need a really high framerate
Apr 23 17:00:04 <ScaredyCat> ie can it play doom == no
Apr 23 17:00:11 <ScaredyCat> ?
Apr 23 17:00:50 <SpeedEvil> Worst case, drop to QVGA and it'll be fine.
Apr 23 17:01:30 <SpeedEvil> At 30FPS+
Apr 23 17:01:59 <ScaredyCat> well, we only want 24.5 :)
Apr 23 17:18:57 <peeps[work]> what's the color depth of the GTA02 screen?
Apr 23 17:19:12 <peeps[work]> didn't see it on the wiki
Apr 23 17:19:18 <SpeedEvil> 17 bits, same as GTA01
Apr 23 17:19:20 <SpeedEvil> 16
Apr 23 17:20:30 <jmichel> ScaredyCat: Thanks now my image was able to build
Apr 23 17:20:40 <ScaredyCat> :D
Apr 23 17:20:51 <peeps[work]> hmm, i just read that the bus to the graphics chip has only 7MB/s bus on GTA02.  this means at 640x480x2 you get about 13 fps max?
Apr 23 17:21:26 <peeps[work]> i mean 11
Apr 23 17:21:33 <jmichel> ScaredyCat: But I need the source for the kernel and it seems that there is no more INHERIT += "rm_work" in the config that I can comment to keep the downloaded source
Apr 23 17:21:37 <josch> peeps[work], hush! glamo bus performance is a forbidden word here!
Apr 23 17:22:28 <ScaredyCat> if it's not there jmichel it shouldn;t clean it out..
Apr 23 17:22:37 <ScaredyCat> you should still have it
Apr 23 17:22:54 <wibbit> Hello all
Apr 23 17:22:57 <peeps[work]> but 11fps makes baby mokoninja cry
Apr 23 17:23:00 <SpeedEvil> peeps[work]: about that.
Apr 23 17:23:21 <SpeedEvil> peeps[work]: QVGA is better - and if you can do some of the work locally, that's also better
Apr 23 17:23:27 <SpeedEvil> (on the gamo)
Apr 23 17:23:52 <peeps[work]> what do you mean "do some of the work locally"?
Apr 23 17:24:07 <ScaredyCat> you have to draw it on paper
Apr 23 17:24:12 <wibbit> Any know of any one who's tested the freerunner (or gta02) in Russia?
Apr 23 17:24:18 <jmichel> ScaredyCat: Shouldn't it be in build/tmp/work/om-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080423-r0/ because it is not there
Apr 23 17:24:36 <SpeedEvil> peeps[work]: if it's simple 2D manipulation that can be done on the glamo.
Apr 23 17:27:18 <ScaredyCat> ..
Apr 23 17:27:24 <ScaredyCat> mm I have it jmichel
Apr 23 17:27:28 <ScaredyCat> build/tmp/work/om-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080423-r0
Apr 23 17:27:45 <ScaredyCat> the source is in the git dir
Apr 23 17:28:48 <jmichel> no git dir for me :(
Apr 23 17:29:39 <ScaredyCat> :o
Apr 23 17:30:47 <jmichel> could the rm_work variable be somewhere else than local/conf/site.conf ?
Apr 23 17:31:24 <ScaredyCat> build/conf/
Apr 23 17:31:45 <jmichel> ok I see
Apr 23 17:31:53 <ScaredyCat> local.conf
Apr 23 17:31:53 <jmichel> sorry that was my mistake
Apr 23 17:31:55 <ScaredyCat> in there
Apr 23 17:31:57 <ScaredyCat> try that
Apr 23 17:31:58 <jmichel> thanks
Apr 23 17:46:43 <cb22_> ba doink a doink doink
Apr 23 17:51:24 <cb22_> is that 7mb/s read / write shared or write only?
Apr 23 19:58:12 <bricode> Any hints as to how to get the u-boot menu? I've tried all combinations of the aux key and power key, but the menu never displays.
Apr 23 19:58:31 <ahven> hold down aux and press power?
Apr 23 19:58:32 <bricode> GTA02v3 (as reported by software) GTA02v4 as printed on the PCB.
Apr 23 19:59:14 <bricode> ahven: Tried that. Holding for 4 seconds. Then 10. Doesn't work.
Apr 23 19:59:18 <ahven> hold down aux and press and hold power until menu appears*
Apr 23 19:59:24 <ahven> it doesn't turn on at all?
Apr 23 19:59:53 <bricode> Not while the aux button is held down.
Apr 23 20:00:05 <ahven> time doesn't matter, only the fact that it must be pressed down whilst holding down power
Apr 23 20:00:07 <bricode> Just pressing the power button it will boot.
Apr 23 20:00:42 <ahven> is the aux functioning as should with the software?
Apr 23 20:00:57 <bricode> Yes.
Apr 23 20:01:19 <ahven> strange
Apr 23 20:01:27 <bricode> Yeah.
Apr 23 20:16:21 <bricode> Is there any way to force a new bootloader (without a debug board)? 
Apr 23 20:16:40 <bricode> I keep getting  "File is not targeted for use by this device" errors with dfu-util.
Apr 23 20:24:11 <mwester> bricode:  whatever it is you are doing, without a debug board you are almost certainly in grave danger of bricking the device.
Apr 23 20:25:23 <bricode> mwester: Yep. I realize that. I'm already well on my way. Still boots up, but can't mount mtdblock4.
Apr 23 20:31:04 <josch> MichaelShiloh, hi! did you receive my email concerning the camisole? :-)
Apr 23 20:42:26 <quicksand> Sorry josch, He's Just Not That Into You.
Apr 23 20:42:37 <quicksand> ;-)
Apr 23 20:42:40 <josch> nooooo!!
Apr 23 20:42:44 <josch> :'(
Apr 23 20:42:53 <josch> MichaelShiloh, dont do this to me!
Apr 23 20:43:47 <MichaelShiloh> hi josch, sorry, i wasn't watching irc. i don't think i saw any camisole email. can you resend? should i ask?
Apr 23 20:43:55 <josch> darn
Apr 23 20:44:12 <josch> i sent you an email concerning my tshirt for community member of the week ^^
Apr 23 20:46:27 <josch> MichaelShiloh, did you receive it? it had the subject "Community member of the week price"
Apr 23 20:47:11 <Spydon> that sounds like a spam subject ^^
Apr 23 20:47:27 <josch> -___-
Apr 23 20:47:29 <I-MOD> lol, you're right. it does
Apr 23 20:47:30 <MichaelShiloh> oh, yes, i did receive that. sorry - i thought i had replied. i have not yet ordered it, but will do so shortly. i aplogize for the delay.
Apr 23 20:47:30 <tc> MichaelShiloh: Hi Micheal, I asked on the community list a few days ago if some GTA02v5's will ship and if so will the power consumption be the same as v6? I really think it needs some clarification, can you help?
Apr 23 20:47:40 <josch> MichaelShiloh, ah great
Apr 23 20:47:55 <doc|work> tc that's been answered on the list
Apr 23 20:47:59 <josch> MichaelShiloh, would be nice if it would arrive by the end of next week - is this possible?
Apr 23 20:48:28 <tc> doc|work: Are you referring to the email by Tony?
Apr 23 20:48:31 <MichaelShiloh> josch: yes, i can order it today or tomorrow, should get there end of next week. i'll rush the shipping.
Apr 23 20:48:58 <doc|work> tc I'm not sure exactly, I just thought I read that all phones would have the problem fixed
Apr 23 20:48:59 <josch> MichaelShiloh, thank you very much!!!
Apr 23 20:50:10 <tc> doc|work: I've been following it on the list and I cannot find a conclusive answer at all
Apr 23 20:50:46 <doc|work> tc is it a big deal really? it's only when the led is actually lit anyway 
Apr 23 20:52:15 <tc> doc|work: No, I don't think it's that much of a big deal but if it does affect power consumption it would be nice to have an answer
Apr 23 20:54:05 <ScaredyCat> hehehe.. walked into that one MichaelShiloh .. :)
Apr 23 20:54:24 <tc> sorry :)
Apr 23 20:54:40 <josch> MichaelShiloh, sent you another mail with a new shipping address for next week
Apr 23 20:55:11 * ScaredyCat stabs sipgate
Apr 23 20:59:02 <tomjoad> tc: What is wrong with the explanation from Tony?
Apr 23 21:00:33 <tc> tomjoad: "A5 or A6 *should* all apply the LED transistor change"
Apr 23 21:01:46 <tc> tomjoad: The word should is a concern of mine
Apr 23 21:06:25 <tomjoad> tc: yeah, I see what you're saying. I can't decipher the wiki page he linked to either as to the change being applied to A5
Apr 23 21:10:16 <tc> tomjoad: Yeah, that's why I would like an official response from Steve or Micheal
Apr 23 21:11:16 <tomjoad> tc: I agree i would like to see that too. or atleast more of a definitive, "yes the A5 has the transistor fix"
Apr 23 21:11:51 <tomjoad> tc: though I have to admit I'll be buying in the first batch eitherway
Apr 23 21:12:30 <mjr> I think it's nitpicking to be concerned about it, though one agress it should be further made absolutely clear before sales
Apr 23 21:13:21 <mjr> As to the question of v5's power consumption vs. v6, it's pretty clear it's not the same. The wiki mentions at least a 1 mA change not applied in v5 :]
Apr 23 21:14:45 <tc> mjr: I think it's nit picking too, but the longer the question goes unanswered the more concerned I am getting
Apr 23 21:15:26 <mjr> basically I think it has been answered
Apr 23 21:15:46 <mjr> and it's nitpicking to get concerned for not having it hammered into your skull
Apr 23 21:17:57 <tc> I just don't think leaving it with a "should" is the greatest idea.
Apr 23 21:18:19 <anrp> i think what he's trying to say is that he'd be happier if he didn't even know it was a problem
Apr 23 21:18:22 <anrp> :\
Apr 23 21:18:49 <mjr> yea
Apr 23 21:18:50 <tc> anrp: I think you're right :/
Apr 23 21:19:28 <tomjoad> I'm still concerned about the GSM firmware working with all AT&T sim cards
Apr 23 21:20:11 <tomjoad> i sent an email to the ml and got one response but it was not somebody with an OM email so I assume they were just guessing
Apr 23 21:20:51 <josch> MichaelShiloh, could you drop me a message via irc when you manage to order it? did you receive my email with the changed shipping address?
Apr 23 21:21:25 <tc> tomjoad: are you worried you will get a contract and the sim not working?
Apr 23 21:22:12 <tomjoad> tc: I am actually already with AT&T and have an old sim but received a new sim that is on the list of non-working sims
Apr 23 21:22:41 <tomjoad> tc: i would like to start using the new sim but am afraid to incase the new one doesn't work with the FR
Apr 23 21:23:15 <tc> ah I see :/
Apr 23 21:23:31 <tomjoad> tc: I guess I'll just stick with the old one
Apr 23 21:27:20 <MichaelShiloh> josch: got it. will ship to new address. and i will send you email w/ tracking number when i order it.
Apr 23 21:31:07 <bricode> MichaelShiloh: Do you guys have debug boards in stock these days for gta02?
Apr 23 21:32:47 <broedje> any repositories that i could put in the ipkg app? i have the late march firmware
Apr 23 21:33:59 <broedje> does alternate mean.... flash anything you like, as long it is compatible? or is there a file existing with -alternate suffix?
Apr 23 21:34:25 <MichaelShiloh> bricode: good question. i think not yet. i will ask. ping me on the kernel list in a few days if you don't hear back.
Apr 23 21:36:03 <bricode> MichaelShiloh: Cool. Thanks.
Apr 23 21:36:44 <emdete> alphaone: query..?
Apr 23 21:53:05 <prpplague> anyone know if the neo1973 support in qemu is being pushed upstream to qemu main tree?
Apr 23 21:53:42 <thos> prpplague, ask balrog-kun 
Apr 23 21:54:14 <prpplague> thos: ok thanks
Apr 23 21:54:33 <thos> prpplague, he wrote it :-)
Apr 23 21:55:10 <prpplague> i thought andrew with o-hand.com did most of the core s3c24xx support
Apr 23 21:56:56 <sandsmark> if I install qtopia on the freerunner, is any gtk-stuff needed?
Apr 23 21:57:16 <balrog-kun> prpplague: yes, it's planned
Apr 23 21:57:18 <thos> prpplague, that's the same person
Apr 23 21:57:40 <prpplague> ahh
Apr 23 21:57:54 <balrog-kun> prpplague: there's so much higher priority stuff to do before that though :(
Apr 23 21:58:16 <prpplague> balrog-kun: is there seperate patches for adding s3c24xx support and adding neo1973?
Apr 23 21:58:59 <balrog-kun> prpplague: nope, currently it's not split into patches, just a svn tree
Apr 23 21:59:26 <prpplague> balrog-kun: ahh ok
Apr 23 22:01:01 <balrog-kun> prpplague: are you specifically interested in s3c24xx emulation?
Apr 23 22:01:22 <prpplague> balrog-kun: yea, thats mainly what i'm interested
Apr 23 22:02:10 <balrog-kun> if there was a machine other than neo1973 using the s3c24xx code then i could even go over this weekend and merge the core stuff
Apr 23 22:02:25 <balrog-kun> this part is rather clean and upstreamable
Apr 23 22:02:51 <prpplague> http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board
Apr 23 22:02:57 <prpplague> thats where i'm starting
Apr 23 22:03:12 <prpplague> i'll be adding a 2440 device as well
Apr 23 22:03:39 <prpplague> http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board
Apr 23 22:04:29 <balrog-kun> prpplague: that's very neat hardware
Apr 23 22:04:43 <prpplague> balrog-kun: thanks
Apr 23 22:05:21 <balrog-kun> prpplague: imho it should be safe for a person to develop against the qemu-neo1973 tree their own emulator, i think there's somene already doing that (though their tree isn't public)
Apr 23 22:05:53 <prpplague> balrog-kun: yea i did a diff, looks pretty straight forward
Apr 23 22:06:33 <prpplague> balrog-kun: i'll be tinkering with it over the next couple of weeks, any problems pestering you on this channel if i have any questions?
Apr 23 22:07:15 <balrog-kun> prpplague: nope, pester me any time, i just may be a bit slow ansering some days
Apr 23 22:07:30 <prpplague> balrog-kun: np, i'm sure mallum is a slave driver
Apr 23 22:08:28 <balrog-kun> i can also merge patches from people into qemu-neo1973 tree and if we reach something usable i can merge it upstream directly together with the rest of s3c24xx code
Apr 23 22:08:43 <balrog-kun> it's just that if i upstreamed that now there would be no machine code using it
Apr 23 22:08:53 <balrog-kun> prpplague: no, quite the opposite :)
Apr 23 22:09:06 <prpplague> balrog-kun: hehe
Apr 23 22:09:06 <balrog-kun> it's my university that's my slave driver :(
Apr 23 22:09:26 <prpplague> balrog-kun: ok, i'll do some testing and get back with you about some patches
Apr 23 22:09:34 <SpeedEvil> rmmod slave
Apr 23 22:10:19 <prpplague> balrog-kun: thanks and later
Apr 23 22:13:00 <ljp> sandsmark: no gtk needed with qtopia
Apr 23 22:14:40 <sandsmark> ok, the anti-qtopia-rant on the wiki was a bit misleading
Apr 23 22:15:08 <raboof> qtopia doesn't even need X, iirc, does it? or has that changed?
Apr 23 22:15:27 <ljp> no x needed
Apr 23 22:15:44 <ljp> anti qtopia rant?
Apr 23 22:15:50 <sandsmark> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Why_Not_QT
Apr 23 22:15:54 <raboof> does that also mean you can't run X apps when you chose qtopia? or can they live together?
Apr 23 22:16:13 <ljp> that does mean no x apps too
Apr 23 22:16:54 <sandsmark> bah, who needs X, when you have qtopia
Apr 23 22:17:17 * sandsmark wants to port kdelibs and amarok ^_^
Apr 23 22:17:19 <mjr> OM is apparently porting (with some pains ;] ) qtopia on X11 to be able to run those apps alongside the rest
Apr 23 22:17:27 <ljp> actually gtk apps use more memory than qtopia apps
Apr 23 22:17:38 <sandsmark> ljp: indeed
Apr 23 22:17:52 <sandsmark> ljp: but that wiki page was misleading, because it compared qt + gtk to just gtk
Apr 23 22:18:33 <mjr> yes, and that's because OM is (well, at least was, dunno nowadays with the E) gtk-based
Apr 23 22:19:05 <mjr> it's not misleading, you're just trying to read it in a context it was not written for
Apr 23 22:19:25 <ljp> its not misleading, its just plain wrong
Apr 23 22:19:34 <ljp> especially about memory constraints
Apr 23 22:20:04 <ljp> qtopia takes less space in flash and has more functionality than the gtk stuff 
Apr 23 22:20:28 <ljp> if you include x and all gtk dependencies, daemons, etc 
Apr 23 22:20:57 <mjr> ljp, congratulations, thanks for demonstrating yet again that you lack reading comprehension skills and are simply droning on about the wonders of qtopia whenever you get the chance
Apr 23 22:21:06 <ljp> pff
Apr 23 22:21:15 <ljp> prove me wring
Apr 23 22:21:15 <ljp> wrong
Apr 23 22:21:17 <raboof> afaics the page tells you why not to use QT if you stick to the existing openmoko framework (which includes X and GTK)
Apr 23 22:21:43 <mjr> indeed what raboof said
Apr 23 22:21:43 <raboof> it doesn't seem to be referring to ripping out all the X and GTK stuff and replacing the entire platform with qtopia
Apr 23 22:21:54 <mjr> indeed it isn't referring to that
Apr 23 22:22:27 <ljp> "
Apr 23 22:22:29 <mjr> and it, methinks, makes it _very_ clear
Apr 23 22:22:32 <raboof> (key words in first paragraph: "application developers", not platform developers)
Apr 23 22:22:42 <ljp> "OpenMoko is a distribution designed around GTK+2 and not Qt."
Apr 23 22:22:52 <ljp> pretty much seems to sum up all the bias
Apr 23 22:23:12 <raboof> bias? looks like an undeniable fact to me.
Apr 23 22:23:13 <mjr> it's not bias, it's a fucking statement of fact
Apr 23 22:23:41 <mjr> (forgetting recent movement toward perhaps something raster-based...)
Apr 23 22:24:03 <ljp> this seems to rant that because it was first conceived for gtk, nothing should ever change
Apr 23 22:24:52 <mjr> No, you moronic corporate drone. It says that if you have a gtk-based platform, you incure less overhead and are more consistent if you use GTK for your apps. It says no more, and no less.
Apr 23 22:24:56 <ljp> look and feel is wrong, as qt can have the same look, as we can tie into the glib event loop. look at distributions that do this
Apr 23 22:25:13 <ljp> at least I dont call anyone names to try and prove a point
Apr 23 22:25:25 <mjr> that also was a statement of fact
Apr 23 22:25:33 <ljp> ppfft
Apr 23 22:25:57 * SpeedEvil hands out pugel sticks.
Apr 23 22:26:01 <mjr> I understand how some facts may be unpleasant to hear.
Apr 23 22:26:08 <ljp> calling someone names ike that just proves you are being childish and cannot come up with good enough reasons to back up your side of the argument
Apr 23 22:26:22 <raboof> ljp: indeed the page looks like it's intended for application developers targeting the *current* openmoko platform, not a theoretical QT-based platform
Apr 23 22:26:40 <mjr> of course, you forget all about me providing the actual reasons why you're being a moronic corporate drone right after saying you are.
Apr 23 22:27:28 <ljp> fuk off
Apr 23 22:28:11 <mjr> you're purposefully twisting the wiki page to suit your blind "qtopia everywhere" agenda, completely ignoring any sanity in interpreting what the page is actually trying to say
Apr 23 22:28:33 <raboof> ljp: as for the look and feel: the page doesn't say it's impossible for QT to have the same look and feel, but that making that happen will be quite a bit of work.
Apr 23 22:28:39 <raboof> ljp: sounds reasonable to me, too
Apr 23 22:29:14 <ljp> well, seeing as they changed directions a few times already, it doesnt reallt matter
Apr 23 22:29:44 <raboof> ljp: good. then why all the discussion? :)
Apr 23 22:29:51 <ljp> openmoko is about freedom, anyway
Apr 23 22:30:27 <raboof> agreed entirely, the work being done to bring qtopia to the openmoko hardware is really interesting
Apr 23 22:30:30 <mjr> Hell, calling the wiki page an (implicitly anti-qtopia) rant even when it explicitly says that _on a qtopia platform_ you should likewise use qtopia and stay away from gtk, now that is pure fanatical blindness to the extreme
Apr 23 22:30:39 <ljp> raboof: because that wiki page only presents one persons view and one side
Apr 23 22:31:03 <ljp> raboof: nokia will be doing almost the same with maemo and bringing qt to that platform as well
Apr 23 22:31:49 <raboof> ljp: I think I responded to your statements about that wikipage above, so you won't be surprised I think the wikipage seems mostly correct to me
Apr 23 22:32:27 <mjr> Now, I await the "good enough reasons" to back up ljp's "fuk off" side of the argument.
Apr 23 22:32:41 <raboof> and does *not* say bringing qtopia to the openmoko hardware is a bad idea. it just says writing qt-based *applications* for the gtk-based openmoko framework is a bad idea.
Apr 23 22:32:48 <rtm> mjr & ljp: You're discussing the "Why Not GT" page, right?
Apr 23 22:32:55 <mjr> rtm, QT, yes
Apr 23 22:33:04 <rtm> oops QT, not GT
Apr 23 22:33:16 <doc|work> why not fluxbox?! why?! WHY?
Apr 23 22:33:25 * doc|work stabs randomly due to pointless discussions
Apr 23 22:33:27 <mjr> rtm, he seems to think it's a biased rant because it doesn't say "YES, you should code in Qtopia no matter what the underlying platform uses"
Apr 23 22:33:59 <mjr> I on the other hand think he's a moron because of this
Apr 23 22:34:43 * raboof just tries to point out where ljp seems to misread the page, and gets ignored completely :)
Apr 23 22:34:43 <mjr> that, I think, summarizes the different points here pretty well
Apr 23 22:35:00 <mjr> raboof, oh, I'm with you there
Apr 23 22:35:01 <ljp> i am not ignoring you
Apr 23 22:35:07 <rtm> Gosh - that page seems pretty reasonable to me.
Apr 23 22:35:24 * alphaone points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agree_to_disagree
Apr 23 22:35:29 <raboof> ljp: ok, i was being a bit dramatic :)
Apr 23 22:35:37 <mjr> raboof, and yes, he's too blind to see it. I think that may be due to "Stock option blindness"
Apr 23 22:35:43 <ljp> problem is, neo is not exactly memory constrained nor an embedded device
Apr 23 22:36:04 <alphaone> ljp: I wouldn't actually call it a problem :-)
Apr 23 22:36:20 <SpeedEvil> I'd disagree about embedded.
Apr 23 22:36:27 <ljp> alphaone: no, but some people seem to mistake this anyway
Apr 23 22:36:44 <mjr> ljp, I see, you lost that discussion so you're trying to frame it into a new one.
Apr 23 22:36:51 <ljp> so my computer 10 years ago is embedded?
Apr 23 22:36:59 <mjr> Clever trolling (!) tactic
Apr 23 22:37:08 <doc|work> mine is, in the bottom of a landfill somewhere
Apr 23 22:37:17 <ljp> i still have 20 MB hard disks around
Apr 23 22:37:29 <SpeedEvil> ljp: no - but because your washing machine - for example - now has more power than your first computer, that does not make it not embedded.
Apr 23 22:37:47 <rtm> Even though the neo has memory comparable to a 10 year old PC, it has a lot more constraints, particularly with power usage.
Apr 23 22:37:53 <doc|work> can we install qt on a washing machine?
Apr 23 22:38:04 <ljp> a washing machine is embedded because it has one purpose only
Apr 23 22:38:13 <ljp> doc|work: why not!
Apr 23 22:38:22 <raboof> who cares about the definitions of 'memory constrained' and 'embedded'? the definitions used usually seem to be either irrelevant or clear from context...
Apr 23 22:38:26 <doc|work> ljp: because it's pointless!
Apr 23 22:38:29 <doc|work> ;)
Apr 23 22:38:39 <mjr> doc|work, indeed you should do so and only code in qtopia for it, otherwise you're "biased" and any reasons you might give for your decisions are "rants"
Apr 23 22:38:45 <ljp> no its not, it would provde and very easy to develop and functional ui
Apr 23 22:38:47 <doc|work> ;)
Apr 23 22:39:06 <doc|work> ljp: except.... it's a fucking washing machine. :)
Apr 23 22:39:08 <ljp> qt runs on some volvo buses
Apr 23 22:39:29 <doc|work> qt there are also airbags on buses, should we put airbags onto washing machines too :)
Apr 23 22:39:36 <doc|work> er, ljp :)
Apr 23 22:39:37 <rtm> OM runs on some buses when I commute to work.
Apr 23 22:39:39 <ljp> probably.
Apr 23 22:39:57 <SpeedEvil> doc|work: remove the explosive capsule first, and use extra fabric software, and wash on a low-temp cycle.
Apr 23 22:40:14 <doc|work> awww, no boom? :(
Apr 23 22:40:30 <ljp> airbags deply when it senses a 2 year old toddler nearby
Apr 23 22:40:34 <ljp> deploy
Apr 23 22:41:23 <doc|work> haha, best homemade video ever. you see a child waddling across the kitchen floor, next thing *bang* kid is flying through the air heading for the wall towards the back of the room
Apr 23 22:41:34 <doc|work> *smack*
Apr 23 22:44:10 <ljp> getting back to that wiki page. I think its admirable that openmoko wants to use multiple toolkits
Apr 23 22:44:45 <tharvey> anyone know what the state of the ar6k driver is in openmoko?
Apr 23 22:44:48 <ljp> no where have I seen a statement about the visio for openmoko limiting itself to gtk. it wants to create an _open_ phone
Apr 23 22:45:04 <ljp> open means just that - open to new things
Apr 23 22:45:39 <ljp> some people cannot handle that qtopia runs better on the phone
Apr 23 22:45:46 * bricode wonders where the closes debug board is to him.
Apr 23 22:45:51 <SpeedEvil> ljp: in some ways - from my perspective - openmmoko is two seperate aims. A) Open hardware. B) An open software stack.
Apr 23 22:46:12 <mjr> ljp, who are these people?
Apr 23 22:46:31 <SpeedEvil> ljp: the primary aim of FIC in supporting the project is not to develop a cool OS. It's to develop software that's free to tehm, that they can use on phones to sell them direct to end-users.
Apr 23 22:46:42 <SpeedEvil> bricode
Apr 23 22:46:47 <SpeedEvil> bricode: lat/lon?
Apr 23 22:47:28 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Costa Rica?
Apr 23 22:47:36 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Apr 23 22:47:39 <SpeedEvil> Prolly not me then.
Apr 23 22:48:03 <bricode> Toronto in a couple of weeks...
Apr 23 22:48:12 * mjr personally couldn't care less how well qtopia runs, so I handle it just fine. The main reason for not caring is, of course, the suboptimal "openness to new things" of the qtopia stack :]
Apr 23 22:49:19 * SpeedEvil is about 10000Km from bricode.
Apr 23 22:49:34 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Well, thanks for looking that up.
Apr 23 22:49:53 <SpeedEvil> bricode: you've bricked yours?
Apr 23 22:52:36 <ljp> SpeedEvil: yes, but the software must also work. qtopia provides all that. they just need to abide by the GPL
Apr 23 22:54:03 * Mononoke silently points at http://zecke.blogspot.com/2008/04/slowly-getting-frustrated-with-qtopia.html
Apr 23 22:54:45 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Yep. It was a slow process where it was just a corrupt filesystem, but now I've borked everything such that even dfu-util doesn't work.
Apr 23 22:55:39 <SpeedEvil> bricode: does it not boot at all now?
Apr 23 22:56:03 <SpeedEvil> bricode: And are you sure it's not battery flat issues?
Apr 23 22:56:41 <ljp> Mononoke: that is one persons subjective opinion. I know of 40 developers who disagree
Apr 23 22:56:58 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Nope. Just turns the backlight on (battery still works).
Apr 23 22:57:44 <SpeedEvil> bricode: and you get nothing showing up on lsusb?
Apr 23 22:57:48 <SpeedEvil> :/
Apr 23 22:57:57 <SpeedEvil> bricode: sounds bricked then. 
Apr 23 22:58:43 <bricode> SpeedEvil: dfu-util -s section -R -D file doesn't work anymore, but lsusb does show it being there.
Apr 23 22:59:35 <SpeedEvil> Can you get into the u-boot bootloader with ttyACM?
Apr 23 22:59:42 <ewon> best debian bug EVAR: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477454
Apr 23 22:59:55 <SpeedEvil> USB serial IOW
Apr 23 23:00:26 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Nope. Couldn't do that from the start. That's why I tried this whole u-boot upgrade process. The phone I have is a bit of a mutt.
Apr 23 23:00:58 <SpeedEvil> bricode: was this a purchased phone - or an early version?
Apr 23 23:01:29 <bricode> SpeedEvil: How's this: gta01 software with gta02v3 bootloader on a gta02v4 pcb. It's an early version.
Apr 23 23:02:21 <SpeedEvil> Ah
Apr 23 23:02:32 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Yeah. Debugboard time.
Apr 23 23:02:59 <SpeedEvil> I know there on the GTA02 a boot flash that can recover things. I don't know if it's been implemented.
Apr 23 23:04:50 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Considering that phone was obtained in January, it's got some crusty code on it.
Apr 23 23:04:56 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Apr 23 23:05:48 <ewon> who did you sleep with to get a GTA02?
Apr 23 23:06:07 <bricode> SpeedEvil: I can still dump stuff into RAM. Is there a way to pause the processor (like in JTAG) through the USB?
Apr 23 23:06:11 <bricode> ewon: The right people.
Apr 23 23:06:26 <mjr> I didn't know you could get a GTA02 by sleeping with someone? Who?
Apr 23 23:06:40 <bricode> ewon: Sadly the right people didn't also include a debug board with the phone.
Apr 23 23:07:17 <SpeedEvil> bricode: yes - as I understand it - if you can get to u-boot - you can get into the bootloader serial console over USB.
Apr 23 23:07:40 <SpeedEvil> bricode: howevfer, this might not be the case I suppose in your hardware. 
Apr 23 23:07:59 <SpeedEvil> bricode: anyway - find yourself in scotland, and you can use my debug board.
Apr 23 23:08:48 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Thanks for the offer.
Apr 23 23:10:44 <SpeedEvil> bricode: to check - you know how to get to u-boot via tty-ACM - and it just doesn't work?
Apr 23 23:11:51 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Tried both cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 (properly chown'd) and neocon. No dice.
Apr 23 23:12:10 <bricode> SpeedEvil: Even cat doesn't give me any love.
Apr 23 23:13:08 <SpeedEvil> do you get the ACM device?
Apr 23 23:13:15 <SpeedEvil> It ust doesn't respond?
Apr 23 23:13:38 <quicksand> What are the vid/pid you see for the device in lsusb?
Apr 23 23:13:58 <bricode> Yep. ACM device, doesn't respond.
Apr 23 23:14:23 <bricode> quicksand: oldskool 1457:5119
Apr 23 23:16:41 <quicksand> Hmm, that's what dfu-util would be looking for, so I'm out of ideas.  (On my GTA01 at least -- dunno if GTA02 is different)
Apr 23 23:24:50 <bricode> Well, thanks for ideas guys.
Apr 23 23:47:14 <duffyd> hi ScaredyCat, how do your images match up with Kevin Dean's? Are they dated the same?
Apr 23 23:47:19 <duffyd> probably stupid question ;)
Apr 24 01:46:18 <duffyd> wow copying stuff to the sd card is slooooowwww
Apr 24 01:47:09 <SpeedEvil> how?
Apr 24 01:47:16 <SpeedEvil> And GTA01/2/3/4
Apr 24 01:47:33 <SpeedEvil> dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/jfjfjfj 
Apr 24 01:47:40 <SpeedEvil> goes at about 3M/second for me
Apr 24 01:47:44 <SpeedEvil> (01)
Apr 24 01:48:38 <duffyd> oh really
Apr 24 01:48:59 <duffyd> oh I c you use dd, I'm just using standard copy
Apr 24 01:49:20 <SpeedEvil> Speed varies with card I think
Apr 24 01:49:31 <SpeedEvil> scp is also slow
Apr 24 01:49:33 <duffyd> k, I've got the standard one that came with the neo
Apr 24 01:49:34 <SpeedEvil> as it's encrypted
Apr 24 01:49:35 <duffyd> ok
Apr 24 01:49:43 <duffyd> just using standard cp
Apr 24 01:49:48 <SpeedEvil> the card I'm using is a cheap 4G kingston one
Apr 24 01:53:47 <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/125885
Apr 24 01:55:33 <duffyd> ta
Apr 24 01:55:56 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Apr 24 01:55:57 <SpeedEvil> http://www.lowpricememory.co.uk/Sandisk-8gb-micro-sd-card.html
Apr 24 01:56:16 <duffyd> is that the tiny one?
Apr 24 01:56:32 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: btw do you know if the media player supports .avi?
Apr 24 01:56:38 <duffyd> or even what formats it supports?
Apr 24 01:57:19 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: that's the sort in hte neo - microSD
Apr 24 01:57:27 <duffyd> ok
Apr 24 01:57:28 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: I've not used the media player
Apr 24 01:57:38 <duffyd> got it, I'm just about to use it for the 1st time :)
Apr 24 01:57:43 <duffyd> hence my copying a *big* file to it
Apr 24 01:57:51 <duffyd> 700mb
Apr 24 02:25:04 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: wow that is *slow* - been about an hour and only copied just under 200mb
Apr 24 02:25:31 <SpeedEvil> how are you copying?
Apr 24 02:25:45 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: as I mentioned earlier with cp
Apr 24 02:25:56 <duffyd> got the sdcard in my lappys sdslot
Apr 24 02:25:59 <SpeedEvil> from where? SD-SD you mean?
Apr 24 02:26:02 <SpeedEvil> oh
Apr 24 02:26:24 <SpeedEvil> that's unusually slow. 
Apr 24 02:26:48 <mjr> yeah, sounds like the interface's fault
Apr 24 02:33:01 <SpeedEvil> It'll go way faster than that in the neo, using scp
Apr 24 02:33:29 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: oh really
Apr 24 02:33:32 <mjr> sounds like, even with how slow that is
Apr 24 02:33:35 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: mmm, should try that then :)
Apr 24 02:33:56 <duffyd> I'll let the sdcard slot play out its copy first though ;)
Apr 24 02:34:30 <SpeedEvil> Goes at around 370K/s for me.
Apr 24 02:34:44 <duffyd> well, actually might scratch that
Apr 24 02:34:45 <duffyd> too slow
Apr 24 02:34:54 * duffyd takes sdcard outta sd slot
Apr 24 02:34:59 <SpeedEvil> 12M in 38s
Apr 24 02:35:04 <mjr> 'course, at least bandwidthwise freerunner will have the wifi edge - faster than the usb ;]
Apr 24 02:35:31 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: I'd mistakenly thought the slot would be faster than usb
Apr 24 02:35:37 <SpeedEvil> freerunner doesn't have edge :(
Apr 24 02:35:43 <duffyd> that was based on no prior knowledge, though, (just a wile guess)
Apr 24 02:35:47 <SpeedEvil> duffyd: it normally would.
Apr 24 02:35:50 <mjr> SpeedEvil, indeed :I
Apr 24 02:35:54 <duffyd> SpeedEvil: k
Apr 24 02:35:55 <mjr> yeah it was a good guess
Apr 24 02:36:24 <SpeedEvil> My USB2 reader pushes the kingston card along at 12M/second
Apr 24 02:36:31 <mjr> just there's some problem with the reader it seems
Apr 24 02:36:35 <SpeedEvil> which surprised me.
Apr 24 02:37:19 <duffyd> can OM read ext3 formatted sd cards?
Apr 24 02:37:35 <mjr> of course
Apr 24 02:37:58 <duffyd> I'm using a dell lappy with (k)ubuntu loaded (feisty) so unsure if there's an issue there
Apr 24 02:38:51 <duffyd> btw I just tried to copy the 17th april rootfs onto my sdcard and it failed to boot saying something about no magic code (or something) on sd card
Apr 24 02:38:51 <mjr> afaik drivers for those internal sd readers lappies have are newish, maybe just the unripeness of it all
Apr 24 02:39:01 <duffyd> I just used the same method I always use, bit confused
Apr 24 02:39:10 <duffyd> mjr: k
Apr 24 02:49:28 <duffyd> weird it dies part way through the copy
Apr 24 02:49:37 <duffyd> doh, I'll have to resort back to the horribly slow copy method
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 24 02:59:56 2008