**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 02 02:59:57 2008 May 02 05:08:08 Bah, monotone.openmoko.org is refusing connections (although it's pingable). May 02 05:20:04 mmontour i am on it May 02 05:21:02 roh: thanks. Earlier I was also getting do_fetch failures on linux-openmoko; don't know if it's related. May 02 05:23:38 mickey|zzZZzz: org.freesmartphone.Call.ListCalls should propably have a signature of a{i(sb)} for it to work since dbus-binding-tool doesn't like the current signature. May 02 05:24:19 mmontour buildhost ran out fo diskspace.. again May 02 05:27:37 Well, "full" is the natural state for a disk. I put a terabyte drive into one of my PCs last year and it's about 80% full now. May 02 05:30:07 mmontour well.. such disks are quite useless for us. too slow and too error prone for 24/7 usage May 02 05:30:18 without raid1 nothing goes May 02 05:55:49 hallo May 02 06:00:20 * nab waves May 02 07:04:58 good morning May 02 07:05:04 hello May 02 07:22:10 hello May 02 07:23:27 hi May 02 07:27:05 does anybody know where could I buy a GTA01? it seems that not from direct.openmoko.com :( May 02 07:27:35 does anyone has experience in bringing the openmoko software on an treo 650 device? May 02 07:27:35 @lpps : i think the gta01 is sould out May 02 07:28:40 yep, that much I gathered :) ... any alternative places that could ship them? apart from eBay, I mean May 02 07:30:38 no i dont think so, everyone is waiting for the freerunner May 02 07:31:52 and does anybody have any hints about the release date of the freerunner? May 02 07:32:17 it will be shipped soon ;-) May 02 07:33:25 heheheh... "soon" is a bit undetermined :-P May 02 07:34:16 jep, but it claims to be ready ;-) May 02 07:36:02 ok, we'll wait then :-/ May 02 07:36:06 thanks, pal May 02 07:38:07 I can sell you my GTA01 for $250 May 02 07:39:07 lpps: http://cgi.ebay.de/FIC-OpenMoko-Neo1973-Linux-Smartphone-Developer-Dream_W0QQitemZ110246508790QQihZ001QQcategoryZ22344QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem May 02 07:39:16 it's that advanced kit including debug board and case May 02 07:39:28 price was $450 May 02 07:44:13 pulster(?).de May 02 09:02:41 hi May 02 09:03:39 i am a fun of linux so i want to have a cellphone use linux as os .... May 02 09:05:36 but i am a new in linux so .....a question is anyone who can tell me when will freerunner on sale and how much ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, May 02 09:07:03 FreeRunner will cost $399 May 02 09:07:39 tobe002 seems it will be selled this year May 02 09:07:50 o .......thank you May 02 09:08:39 and i am in china how i can get it May 02 09:09:44 tobe002 hm you will be able to order it via a webshop May 02 09:09:57 Will be FreeRunner transported directly to users from Taiwan? May 02 09:10:08 dont know May 02 09:10:33 it will be assembled in your front room by 4 small children May 02 09:12:31 ScaredyCat cant laugh about it May 02 09:14:30 J-23: probably from USA and Europe May 02 09:15:47 en .........anther question why freerunner designed without a Camera May 02 09:16:15 I only can guess May 02 09:16:55 place, maybe costs and most people dont use the camera May 02 09:17:37 in many companys you are not allowed as visitor to have cellphone with camera May 02 09:18:42 any worthwhile camera would cost a fair bit, plus you'd then need a hw 3gp/jpeg encoder May 02 09:18:47 too much hassle to be honest May 02 09:20:45 en......that's right ...... May 02 09:21:14 just simply wasnt designed with one May 02 09:21:16 no need May 02 09:21:17 no spec May 02 09:21:19 just not there May 02 09:21:49 no specific omission other than its yet another part that costs money and engineering May 02 09:21:57 wonder if the old T61 camera attachment from SE could be abused for something like this? May 02 09:22:00 pffft, mp DP-L10s have an awesome 0.3mp camera :P May 02 09:22:06 s/mp/my/ May 02 09:22:06 ScaredyCat meant: pffft, my DP-L10s have an awesome 0.3mp camera :P May 02 09:22:32 u can bet that future phones from OM will have a camera May 02 09:22:37 it is a very asked for eature May 02 09:23:06 stupid feature May 02 09:23:19 not really May 02 09:23:23 tis so May 02 09:23:26 ner ner May 02 09:23:37 as such i like the pictures of the peolpe who are calling me May 02 09:23:50 i can just look at my screne and go "oh thats who's calling" May 02 09:23:54 without having to read text May 02 09:24:04 faster to recognise May 02 09:24:08 is the people you knew were as ungly as the ones I know.... ;) May 02 09:24:26 probably May 02 09:24:31 *g* May 02 09:24:35 but still is handy May 02 09:24:48 right, because the 0.0000001ms difference is a issue May 02 09:24:51 reminds me all the time of how beautiful i am when they call :) May 02 09:24:52 hehehe May 02 09:24:57 :-P May 02 09:25:14 ScaredyCat: it is an issue :) May 02 09:25:20 ScaredyCat: you already spread your nostrils to the world :-) May 02 09:25:21 because i LIKE it May 02 09:25:22 :) May 02 09:25:34 and things people LIKE sell stuff May 02 09:25:35 :) May 02 09:25:44 XorA: exactly - you want that when I ring you? May 02 09:26:15 although I do wonder what a camera has to do with caller Id pictures May 02 09:26:31 just easy to get their picture when u meet them and get their details May 02 09:26:34 you tke the pic and associate it with their number May 02 09:26:42 i am always addign details of someone while about and meeting them May 02 09:26:45 xora you sell programms for 100$ to transfer the pictures to the phone May 02 09:26:53 the assumption is that ou are in front of htem hen thy give it to you May 02 09:27:03 because by the time i have gone somewhere else May 02 09:27:06 i dont have their pic anymore May 02 09:27:12 woglinde: Ill happilly sell a copy of debian for 1000$ to transfer pictures May 02 09:27:13 and i'd have to go googling online for it May 02 09:27:18 and spend lots of time and effort May 02 09:27:21 also just think May 02 09:27:25 u meet 7 girls each night May 02 09:27:27 and get their numbers May 02 09:27:29 and names May 02 09:27:33 very soon it all becomes a blur May 02 09:27:42 "sandra.. which one was that?" May 02 09:27:46 so u need to get a photo May 02 09:27:48 hell May 02 09:27:50 raster: your actually talking about beer goggle verification the next morning :-) May 02 09:27:52 u had 13 beers May 02 09:27:55 you wouldn't need the camera if the phone imported their vcard May 02 09:28:01 all of them looks hot after 13 beers May 02 09:28:05 7 girls a night are u a pimp? ;) May 02 09:28:14 u dont know until the next day when u check the photos and go "ewwww.. definite beer goggles" May 02 09:28:26 zo yup. May 02 09:28:30 beer goggle verification May 02 09:28:42 zedstar: i'm just being hypothetical. but it can happen! May 02 09:28:42 :) May 02 09:28:45 no wonder that friggin keyboard is taking so long May 02 09:29:05 hahaha May 02 09:29:07 the kbd is done May 02 09:29:19 of course u'd need to maybe check out svn and stuff May 02 09:29:20 but hey May 02 09:29:22 * zedstar not scrolled up to actually work out what the conversation is but woke up when some mentioned beer and girls May 02 09:29:26 :) May 02 09:29:34 zedstar: hhehehe May 02 09:30:37 beer! girls! May 02 09:30:47 feck May 02 09:30:52 arse May 02 09:30:58 bunda May 02 09:32:16 when i want to buy anther cellphone i have consider like N73 N82 and of couse freerunner ........tobe honest i think it is pity without a camera May 02 09:33:29 tobe you should ask you if you can ssh into a n73 or n82 May 02 09:34:13 or when you able to buy a webcam May 02 09:34:18 and plug in it to your n73 May 02 09:34:21 via usb May 02 09:34:30 ;) May 02 09:34:44 n810 + gsm modem would be a nice phone May 02 09:35:26 who May 02 09:35:35 XorA: neo /is/ a nice phone :D May 02 09:35:43 xora which standby time it then would have? May 02 09:35:54 * zedstar is a fan of the n810 also May 02 09:35:57 emdete: as long as you carry a ar battery gta01 is a nice phone May 02 09:36:07 car battery May 02 09:36:20 n810 is nice form factor and size :-)( May 02 09:36:31 XorA: yes, thats a problem right now, but i was able to aktivly use it for around 5h - that quite okay (gps, gprs, screen on!) May 02 09:36:32 it is the only device i really get much use out of and i have far too many devices May 02 09:37:40 my n810 does at least 4 days on stanby while downloading email via wifi May 02 09:38:28 XorA: how long really using it? May 02 09:38:36 emdete: 8-10 hours May 02 09:38:47 5h was with modem fw moko1, moko6 will bring even morre. May 02 09:38:47 so the new openmoko phone is shaping up to be pretty cool? May 02 09:38:52 it will run debian or somesuch? May 02 09:39:07 Outlander: the current hw does already May 02 09:39:18 i got a nokia 6120c to give my n810 some 3.5g love and is much more useful now May 02 09:39:53 cool May 02 09:40:08 what's the scope for reading ebooks and things on the phone? May 02 09:40:14 anything debian can run i spose May 02 09:40:26 * Outlander checks the screen size/res for the new phone... May 02 09:41:05 viewing pdf is is fine on the n810....i have to say tho the pdf reader on the iphone is pretty cool as u can easily zoom in and out with gestures...very usable May 02 09:42:25 cool May 02 09:42:31 i like to take pdf's with me on my n800 May 02 09:42:44 too many damn pdf's to read in this make-a-phone business May 02 09:42:46 :) May 02 10:09:39 hi, any ideas why I'm getting | /usr/bin/autoreconf: unrecognized option `--exclude=libtoolize' for libtool-native's configure? May 02 10:09:55 is autoreconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61 May 02 10:09:58 too old/new? May 02 10:14:09 autoreconf baffles me but i always run it with --install to copy missing files May 02 10:14:11 looks like for some reason autoconf-native has not been built for you May 02 10:14:21 OE compiles its own autoconf with added options May 02 10:21:02 ah, I already tried to make clean-package-libtool-native, quilt and possible others.. any clue which package I should actually clean-up? May 02 10:21:33 though perhaps I should try make clean everything first if that helps. May 02 10:22:01 just wondering if it'd have been possible not to build everything again, but well May 02 10:31:03 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r291 10/trunk/software/py-ophoned/ (config.py frontend.py objects.py ophoned serverObjects.py): py-ophoned: server and device register to bus now and answer to methods May 02 10:32:15 mickeyl: did you notice my comment earlier? :) May 02 10:33:07 no, let me scroll up May 02 10:33:49 ah May 02 10:33:56 ok, let me change May 02 10:34:34 spyre: are you ok with that structure? May 02 10:34:43 mickeyl: actually that's why I mentioned it again :) May 02 10:35:01 mickeyl: I was thinking that call status could be added there instead of bool May 02 10:35:06 agreed May 02 10:35:09 mickeyl: (or with bool) May 02 10:35:35 there's one thing i'm pondering May 02 10:35:40 perhaps you can help me decide May 02 10:35:52 there's two ways we do that May 02 10:36:00 one is encode the status in the signals May 02 10:36:03 like: May 02 10:36:09 ActivatedCall() May 02 10:36:12 ReleasedCall() May 02 10:36:18 HeldCall() May 02 10:36:22 the other way would be May 02 10:36:35 just to use a CallStatus() May 02 10:36:44 and encode the actual status in a string May 02 10:36:49 what would you prefer? May 02 10:37:15 <`pwgen`> moin May 02 10:37:22 it's also a question 'bout granularity May 02 10:37:25 whether it makes sense for programs only to listen to ActivatedCall but not to ReleasedCall. May 02 10:37:33 if so, then we need different signals May 02 10:37:38 if not, then we can use one signal with a string May 02 10:37:53 (which might make the API cleaner) May 02 10:38:10 mickeyl: My gut feeling says to go with CallStatus May 02 10:38:30 mickeyl: but I have no objections on going the other way May 02 10:39:47 my gut feeling agrees with your gut feeling May 02 10:39:54 i will change it after lunch May 02 10:39:59 makes the API a bit smaller and simpler May 02 10:40:01 mickeyl: we might end up with way too many signals to listen/send with Activated/held/released optin if we want to support for example all ecam messages May 02 10:40:03 -> good change :) May 02 10:40:11 :) May 02 10:40:13 spyre: agreed, good point May 02 10:40:53 <`pwgen`> does someone know howt to enable wake up by gsm interrupt ? May 02 10:41:20 mickeyl: so how do you plan to change listcalls() ? May 02 10:41:59 good morning May 02 10:42:22 good morning May 02 10:42:45 spydon: I'm also pondering weither call direction should be indicated (did we call or did we get called).. but that propably is not useful, only information on when we are connecting/being connected/connected May 02 10:42:57 whoops I meant that to mickeyl :) May 02 10:42:59 heh May 02 10:43:22 hehe May 02 10:44:01 a{is} might be the simplest May 02 10:44:24 and then have getStatus() method to get more information? May 02 10:44:25 one more thing i'm pondering is do we need the server to give out the full status May 02 10:44:42 or can we expect the client to remember that May 02 10:44:50 right, your question goes in the same direction May 02 10:45:05 GetCallStatus() -> a{sv} May 02 10:45:08 with fields like May 02 10:45:13 number May 02 10:45:15 duration May 02 10:45:19 and even May 02 10:45:20 cost May 02 10:45:28 i think that sounds proper May 02 10:45:51 mickeyl: yep, I'd like to see something like that since I'm developing a dialer which is started when a call is being made May 02 10:46:00 agreed May 02 10:46:06 ok, i will take that into account May 02 10:46:12 makes sense actually May 02 10:46:17 we do not clutter the bus always May 02 10:46:18 mickeyl: currently it command line params are used to tell the dialer that someone is calling. I'd prefer it to query gsmd2 instead May 02 10:46:21 but only send the status May 02 10:46:43 spyre: *nod* about time the infrastructure gets manifested in UI ;) May 02 10:48:54 yeah, I've found a lot of little flaws in gsmd2 and fso api aswell when doing that ;) May 02 10:49:26 right. i'm doing the same now with py-ophoned and a new combined dialer/messager/calendar/phonebook May 02 10:49:34 so we have a couple of API consumers May 02 10:49:39 to iron out problems and make it better May 02 10:50:01 yep May 02 10:50:20 imho a storage application should be made to iron out storage api's problems aswell May 02 10:53:06 mickeyl: for example if sms message is read/not read, the folder it is in (or any item in storage for that matter), when was it last modified are things that should be thought of May 02 10:54:11 spyre: Why would the last modification time of the folder play a role? May 02 10:55:20 abraxa_: it was just an idea we toyed with couple of days ago.. that could be used for synchronizing messages from sim to storage and vice versa May 02 10:56:07 spyre: In in ideal world, wouldn't the storage backend take care of that? ;) May 02 10:56:56 abraxa_: sure, but some applications might want to know these things :) May 02 10:59:39 spyre: What for? I would think that a flag contained with each message that indicates the physical storage location would suffice - as well as a query like "show me all messages stored on the SIM" May 02 11:00:56 abraxa_: Well we'd still need to modify the api to allow retrieving the physical location :) May 02 11:01:37 spyre: Which API? The current eds-dbus one? May 02 11:01:52 timestamps and such were only trivial examples, my point was that storage application should be made so we'd see all the real needs of programs using the dbus api May 02 11:02:03 abraxa_: fso's dbus storage api May 02 11:02:20 Ah okay May 02 11:02:28 (and see where dbus api shouldn't be used) May 02 11:02:40 That's just a draft anyway :) May 02 11:03:17 spyre: Was the comment in brackets related to anything in particular or just a generic comment? May 02 11:03:48 related to fso's storage api May 02 11:04:11 Hm... is there anything you see that it shouldn't be used for? May 02 11:04:34 storing large files May 02 11:04:47 unless path is sent via dbus May 02 11:05:01 Oh, okay... well, that's a no-brainer. I thought you had some use cases in mind :) May 02 11:06:09 multimedia messages (mms) for example May 02 11:07:28 Yeah May 02 11:10:12 freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r292 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (12 files in 4 dirs): May 02 11:10:12 freesmartphone.org: Implemented (soon to be depricated) listactive method May 02 11:10:12 freesmartphone.org: Added support for it to libfreesmartphone May 02 11:10:12 freesmartphone.org: Fixed test ui to respond with proper ecam codes May 02 11:16:21 random question: will SMSs be treated email-like (most phones) or chat-like (iphone)? May 02 11:19:37 cb22: how about teating sms, email & chat message like? May 02 11:19:48 s/teat/treat/ May 02 11:19:48 emdete meant: cb22: how about treating sms, email & chat message like? May 02 11:20:22 s/like/alike/? May 02 11:21:19 For email, that breaks rather. May 02 11:21:46 A chat interface - maybe even showing your and their responses on the same window - and messages that may be 5K each - has little in common May 02 11:23:22 * cb22 slaps ffmpeg around. _why_ can't you just follow the damn bitrate I'm giving you :( May 02 11:23:45 and why do you claim to not be able to encode mono vorbis, when it seems to work just fine May 02 11:23:48 13:19 < apt> emdete meant: cb22: how about treating sms, email & chat message like? May 02 11:27:13 i wouldnt care to see just subjects in my communication thread with a person... as long as i would be able to open that line to see the rest of the mail May 02 12:38:57 anyone with access to the openmoko webkit build bot? May 02 12:39:11 we need a new package installed (Xt) May 02 13:04:52 alp not yet.. will report back May 02 13:05:35 * ruskie contemplates if it would be even remotely possible to run linux on a n95... May 02 13:05:43 alp: now.. which package? May 02 13:05:50 uhm folks, is there any way to install gllin from .ipk package? opkg says "Invalid magic" May 02 13:06:32 works for me May 02 13:06:34 opkg install ipkg fails due to file conflict :( May 02 13:06:37 berkus just download the package with your browser, copy it onto the phone and do opkg install May 02 13:06:41 roh: not sure what it's called. we need the xorg libXt development files May 02 13:06:46 yeah - that May 02 13:07:04 ahhh! May 02 13:07:30 also - I think ScaredyCats builds may have it preinstalled May 02 13:07:35 berkus wget doesnt work. referrer-checks due to the eula May 02 13:07:37 berkus: look at tangogps also May 02 13:07:47 i'm using 30 apr daily build May 02 13:07:55 just came back to Neo after a pause May 02 13:08:01 berkus: yeah - that's not got it. May 02 13:08:12 alp: i am currently cleaning up a bit.. is that stuff on the http old crud or do you use any of it? May 02 13:08:12 no idea about current state of affairs here in mokoland May 02 13:08:32 roh: which stuff? May 02 13:08:43 alp /space/www/ May 02 13:08:51 berkus: still awaiting GTA02 May 02 13:09:16 roh: i'd check with zecke (except he won't be around a few days i gather) May 02 13:10:16 alp i will do some debian updates also.. hope it doesnt affect your builds May 02 13:10:53 roh: should be fine. i have access to the bot to force a complete reconfigure/rebuild etc. if necessary May 02 13:11:24 ok May 02 13:11:29 bot? how does it work? May 02 13:11:38 SpeedEvil: heh, ok, then i'm not too far behind :) May 02 13:12:10 roh: it has a private irc management interface maintained by Apple May 02 13:12:35 *yikes* May 02 13:13:20 is tangogps a ui or a daemon? May 02 13:13:25 UI May 02 13:13:42 berkus: it can download OSM maps, and give you a moving map display with trail. May 02 13:13:47 alp: hold your breath... seems its still half a sarge.. May 02 13:14:10 alp: btw., you never sent me that patch... May 02 13:14:25 mickey|bbiab: for scrolling perf? May 02 13:14:30 yep May 02 13:14:43 + inclusion into a moko-scrolled-view May 02 13:14:47 iirc May 02 13:16:22 tangogps loading but doesn't seem to see the satellite May 02 13:16:38 berkus: you need to do the thing with the replacement gllin script May 02 13:16:43 got a simpler version of the patch (not quite as fancy) that works. i'll dig up the moko scroll patch too May 02 13:16:53 then scorll to the config tab, and click 'launch gllin and gpsd' May 02 13:17:02 then go outside May 02 13:17:16 (for me at least, it won't get a lock indoors reliably) May 02 13:18:58 what is the replacement gllin script thing? can't find it May 02 13:20:49 It's on the tangogps site May 02 13:20:56 ah! May 02 13:21:18 It 'just works' - though I admittedly haven't got GPRS working May 02 13:22:56 So I needed to download some tiles. May 02 13:23:17 is it somehow done from within tangogps ui? May 02 13:23:23 'it' ? May 02 13:23:25 (downloading tiles) May 02 13:23:28 ah yes May 02 13:23:34 it's in one of the tabs. May 02 13:23:42 it downloads the current view on the map May 02 13:23:49 and deeper levels of zoom May 02 13:24:04 so 1 level of zoom gets you 4 tiles + the original 1 May 02 13:24:10 2 levels 16+4+1 May 02 13:24:12 and so on May 02 13:24:27 You'll want to set it up so it uses the media card. May 02 13:24:54 apt any idea why there is a special built svn package installed? May 02 13:24:56 okay, roh May 02 13:27:28 ahh i had tangogps 0.7 installed, upgrading May 02 13:29:23 damnit. neo suddenly turned off and doesnt power on May 02 13:29:44 hello everyone May 02 13:30:00 berkus: there are power issues still. May 02 13:30:19 berkus: remove USB, remove battery, wait 30s, replace battery, plug into computer. May 02 13:30:20 i got problem in building the sample source2 code using the openmoko toolchain May 02 13:30:48 berkus: if you're lucky, you can then power it up after 5 mins, and it'll ahve enough charge to boot May 02 13:31:00 berkus: otherwise, do the above again, and leave it for a couple of hours May 02 13:31:21 hmm, it was charging all the time, half battery was indicated May 02 13:32:01 apt your packages should be there now May 02 13:32:06 hm, no, dead May 02 13:32:23 hello May 02 13:32:25 i'll leave it charging May 02 13:39:06 apt the webkit stuff all resides in ~oe/webkit/? May 02 14:05:04 freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r293 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/ (data/gsm0710muxd src/mux.xml src/muxercontrol.vala): May 02 14:05:04 freesmartphone.org: fixed path in init.d script May 02 14:05:04 freesmartphone.org: fixed typo in comment May 02 14:05:04 freesmartphone.org: corrected method signature May 02 14:27:03 wasnt the gta02 suppose to be released this month? May 02 14:28:32 cayres: Apparently it's in the sample testing phase. May 02 14:28:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates May 02 14:28:47 sample testing? May 02 14:29:21 "production verification test" May 02 14:30:18 They produced a few freerunners (gta02) and are going to get them to some "key partners" May 02 14:30:27 it's like the initial run i guess. May 02 14:30:32 hmm May 02 14:32:28 they also got rid of the 'advanced' version. so now there's just the base model, and all the 'devkit' stuff are accessories. like the dev board is going to cost 99 bucks apparently. May 02 14:32:51 sigh May 02 14:33:06 hm? May 02 14:33:34 some people need it in order to start an activity around it May 02 14:35:12 yeah, but you could just add both parts to the cart when you get it. May 02 14:35:54 damn i want one May 02 14:36:04 in the end it comes out cheaper. if i recall they were planning to make the 'advanced' gta02 sell for 600 dollars. now by getting the freerunner+debugboard, it's 500 when you add both to your cart. May 02 14:36:06 *g* May 02 14:36:19 * lu_zero would rather want one with umts May 02 14:36:31 going to be some time. May 02 14:36:43 I'm sure there's one feature that everyone is going to miss. :) May 02 14:37:10 for some people it's camera, for others it might be more buttons or something.. May 02 14:37:28 I think for a first offering, it's pretty nice. May 02 14:37:36 i just want one May 02 14:37:38 :p May 02 14:37:40 me too. May 02 14:37:48 then i can miss things later May 02 14:37:51 I'm going to sell my nokia 3250 when i get mine. May 02 14:38:09 hi all, does any one know when Neo FreeRunner will be released ? May 02 14:38:15 lol May 02 14:38:16 saleh: nope May 02 14:38:21 there,done May 02 14:38:30 * SpeedEvil ponders an annoucebot. May 02 14:38:38 That says 'it's not ready yet' every 10s. May 02 14:38:46 is it ready yet? May 02 14:38:48 Everyone puts it on ignore, and it's there for newbies. May 02 14:38:49 :-P May 02 14:38:51 is it ready yet? May 02 14:38:54 is it ready yet? May 02 14:39:16 I already have a nice nikon 8mpix digicam (uses ptp, so it works great in linux), which i love. So I don't need a camera in my phone. May 02 14:39:58 There is a difference between a camera you take when you want a camera, and a camera you have all the time. May 02 14:41:00 yeah.. there is some convenience in the whole idea of taking a pic and being able to email it right away to someone. if you're at the supermarket and don't know which brand of something to buy. :) May 02 14:41:11 that sort of stuff, yes. May 02 14:41:18 Where a 640*480 pic is just fine. May 02 14:41:19 SpeedEvil: I have a camera which I have all the time, not on my phone May 02 14:41:36 there could be a usb camera addon... May 02 14:41:47 Azalyn_: not really practical - USB sucks. May 02 14:41:54 my eyeballs take great pictures, but I cant seem to figure out how to email em yet May 02 14:41:57 what's the point of the addon? why not just buy a camera? May 02 14:42:10 yeah, if there's to be a camera it should be built in, but still, I have no camera in my phone. Haven't missed it May 02 14:42:13 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera May 02 14:42:20 summatusmentis: well, as we just discussed, there are some practical applications for it. May 02 14:42:21 Use cases that can be satisfied with a VGA fixed-focus or macro camera. May 02 14:42:41 usb2.0 would be nice for gta03 (whenever that will happen...) May 02 14:42:43 Many many use-cases. May 02 14:42:51 GTA03 isn't happening. May 02 14:42:53 GTA04 is. May 02 14:43:00 Exactly why ... May 02 14:43:01 yeah, but a camera addon would be bulky too... May 02 14:43:12 summatusmentis: there are 6mm*6mm*4mm cameras May 02 14:43:16 hm.. so is this like the linux versioning model? :P May 02 14:43:24 odd numbers are unstable, and even are stable? May 02 14:43:31 Dunno. May 02 14:43:49 SpeedEvil: yeah, which then need a usb cable to plug into the phone... still a lot more hassle than carrying a phone and a camera around May 02 14:44:02 no the GTA03 is a top secret gov. release May 02 14:44:04 :) May 02 14:44:10 But as you can see, there are a dozen plus of things that are reasonable applications for even a bad camera. May 02 14:44:20 Some of which aren't as practical with an external device May 02 14:44:29 A seperate device that is. May 02 14:44:52 for example, gesture interfaces, barcode reading keying into a database app, ... May 02 14:46:05 well... look at the nintendo wii... the wii remote technically has a 'bad camera' May 02 14:46:09 summatusmentis, re May 02 14:46:16 Azalyn_: true May 02 14:46:26 Sup3rkiddo: where have you been all my life? :-P May 02 14:46:30 Azalyn_: though it's got some special purpose image analyser camera May 02 14:46:33 it's like a really limited IR camera, capable of only seeing the two infrared led's in the 'sensor bar' May 02 14:46:52 Azalyn_: /me adds that to the list. May 02 14:46:54 summatusmentis, sup?...got semesters..so been dead for a while :D May 02 14:47:05 yeah, my finals are in a week May 02 14:47:45 there's also stories of people catching criminals with cameraphones. or whatever. May 02 14:48:19 by the way, i'm confused, is the freerunner stereo when using a *headset* ? May 02 14:48:24 i know the speaker is mono... May 02 14:48:25 Azalyn_: yes May 02 14:48:34 but this confused me: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Wolfson_Codec May 02 14:48:37 Azalyn_: it's just the speaker which got deleted May 02 14:48:48 see, the wolfson chipset appears to be stereo.. May 02 14:48:56 but the "amplifier" is mono May 02 14:49:08 what amplifier? May 02 14:49:20 "There's a National Semiconductor LM4853 Mono Amplifier at the analog audio output of the WM8753" May 02 14:49:27 Ah. May 02 14:49:32 That's probably to drive the speaker May 02 14:49:39 it used to be a dual amp May 02 14:49:51 there are about a dozen audio outputs though May 02 14:50:50 reason i'm curious is because that's one of the features i was counting on. using a 4 or 8 GB microsd card and having music on it. :D May 02 14:53:14 by the way, do any of you have a gta01 ? is using the onscreen keyboard hard on the 2.8 inch screen? May 02 14:53:23 Yes, there are many keyboards May 02 14:53:28 which keyboards May 02 14:53:43 hmm, could you put a OTG device into a normal host mode? May 02 14:53:49 Dunno May 02 14:54:31 cb22: I noted that the GTA04 planned porcessor has a OTG2.0 or USB1.1 host. May 02 14:54:33 hm.. well.. i don't know.. i guess... out of all the available onscreen keyboards, whichever one you consider best. May 02 14:54:38 cb22: I have no clue. May 02 14:54:43 SpeedEvil: yeah, thats what i read too May 02 14:54:48 so a bit puzzled May 02 14:54:53 i imagine the best of breed one will be included. May 02 14:55:06 Azalyn_: some of them work quite well May 02 14:55:24 To teh extent that with a pointer or the edge of a fingernail, you can use the qwerty keyboard. May 02 14:55:32 There is also a multitap number keyboard. May 02 14:55:38 But I don't ike that. May 02 14:56:28 As to finger-keyboards - well - you can't use a qwerty one like that. May 02 14:56:37 But you expected that presumably. May 02 14:56:43 Unless you have odd shaped fingers. May 02 14:56:46 hmm, from wikipedia: USB OTG devices are backward compliant with USB 2.0 and will behave as standard USB Hosts or Peripherals when connected to standard (no OTG) USB devices. May 02 14:57:40 yeah, i was thinking edge of a fingernail May 02 14:57:48 on qwerty May 02 14:58:01 It works for short texts - you wouldn't want to enter war and peace with it. May 02 14:58:13 I suspect multitap may be faster even once you get used to it. May 02 14:58:14 how about irc? May 02 14:58:38 Dunno. May 02 14:58:46 or ssh'ing to a home box and typing some commands May 02 14:59:02 that works - but it's annoyingly slow even with a pointer May 02 14:59:27 you can get BT credit card keyboards May 02 14:59:44 Or even full-sized ones, but that may be silly. May 02 15:01:04 yeah, when i saw "usb host" i figured a fullsize would work.. but that seems a little pointless. unless you have a docking station. even then though, it's probably better to just type on a desktop and then sync it. May 02 15:01:22 the bluetooth creditcard keyboard thing is a good idea though.. i should look into that May 02 15:01:36 They aren't especially cheap, which is annoying. May 02 15:02:22 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/ultra+slim-credit-card+sized-bluetooth-keyboard-235252.php May 02 15:02:28 this, right? May 02 15:04:37 Something like that, yes. May 02 15:07:29 heh, it hasnt been released yet May 02 15:09:05 are there actually any available for purchase? because that'd be cool, could just attach one to the back of the phone or something May 02 15:09:31 they come up on ebay occasionally May 02 15:09:49 They pulled the old model May 02 15:09:54 I'm unsure if they restarted May 02 15:10:30 they have a new model, but I don't know if it's out yet May 02 15:10:35 AzalynHD how big are they? the photo with the hand rather says '2 creditcards' than one May 02 15:10:45 that was a small hand May 02 15:10:49 http://freedominput.com/site/index.php the one linked above looks like it's in the same stage as a freerunner May 02 15:10:53 they are in fact credit card sized - but thinner May 02 15:10:57 err May 02 15:10:58 thicker May 02 15:11:21 yeah they're obviously not as good with photoshopping as they are with engineering :) May 02 15:11:57 I have said in the past that there must be model agencies with people with freakishly large and small hands on the books. May 02 15:13:04 http://www.ministryoftech.com/2006/10/16/bluetooth-gamepad-for-mobile-devices/ May 02 15:13:08 they even have gamepads May 02 15:14:15 _curse_ you ffmpeg :( May 02 15:15:13 hmmm? May 02 15:15:47 all i want to do is encode an x264 video at a constant bitrate. mencoder can do it and it also uses libx264... May 02 15:18:18 What's wrong with mencoder. May 02 15:18:33 cb22: you going to play video on your neo? May 02 15:19:00 AzalynHD: it's for those 'exclusive' clips he's producing for his select audience May 02 15:19:09 mencoder doesn't like vorbis, and it trips when i try to use audiofile with it May 02 15:19:14 Stephmw: hehe May 02 15:19:21 trips? May 02 15:19:31 try using ffmpeg, maybe works better May 02 15:19:47 I think that's what he's doing :| May 02 15:19:54 lu_zero: goes crazy May 02 15:20:06 are you using the latest svn? May 02 15:20:07 ah May 02 15:20:16 cb22: have you tried the most recent version May 02 15:20:27 SpeedEvil: yep, for both May 02 15:21:32 have you visited #mplayer? May 02 15:22:03 good idea, #ffmpeg seems to be dead May 02 15:26:37 is it a bad thing that all i think about is freerunner? ;0 May 02 15:27:08 TAsn: Only if you have a girlfriend :) May 02 15:27:18 i'm idiling here for a long time now, just waiting for redemption. May 02 15:27:36 abraxa_, i think not having a gf just make it sound worse. May 02 15:28:04 TAsn: nope, she's not competing for your attention then May 02 15:28:08 TAsn: Depends on your point of view. It certainly leaves you with more freedom, money and time :) May 02 15:28:55 abraxa_, were you talking about the freerunner or the gf? ;0 May 02 15:29:28 summatusmentis, but freerunner is driving crazy ! ;[ May 02 15:29:36 girls will do that too some times :) May 02 15:29:47 summatusmentis, i know... May 02 15:30:04 class, peace all May 02 15:30:18 TAsn: The g/f :) May 02 15:30:21 but atleast the girls that do you get to touch, not the case with moko :) May 02 15:30:36 abraxa_, oh. May 02 15:30:45 girls ? May 02 15:30:52 isn't this #OpenMoko ? May 02 15:30:57 girls will do that too some times :) May 02 15:31:00 But you can touch the Freerunner as often as you like. Not so with your girl. May 02 15:31:05 you mean #Openmoko May 02 15:31:13 abraxa_: you need a new girl then :p May 02 15:31:13 ah sorry May 02 15:31:23 cb22: I wasn't talking about *mine* ;) May 02 15:31:24 cb22, i agreep May 02 15:31:26 cb22, i agree.* May 02 15:43:15 * ScaredyCat touches abraxa_ inappropriately May 02 15:43:15 * cb22 cross his fingers... May 02 15:43:26 crap May 02 15:43:29 that was badly timied :p May 02 15:43:37 ScaredyCat: Wow, that's out of nowhere May 02 15:43:41 :) May 02 15:48:07 o.o May 02 15:50:39 I have a silly question: I'm using the 20080421 rootfs (and kernel) snapshot. I don't see the ipkg command... May 02 15:51:17 try opkg May 02 15:52:50 Thanks. May 02 15:53:11 Hmph. Has something replaced matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod? May 02 15:54:48 Nevermind. Typo. May 02 15:56:37 off the top of their heads, does anybody know what +CIEV is for, and the syntax of it? May 02 15:57:46 signal strength I think May 02 15:58:00 is this an unsolicited message from the modem? May 02 15:58:29 no, just a random question May 02 16:02:43 is there any random chance that anyone here is from either western MN or middle of ME? May 02 16:03:29 I suppose I should ask around and see what people say May 02 16:03:41 (reagarding GSM data/signal in those areas) May 02 16:04:35 summatusmentis: I thought there were coverage maps on the GSM page May 02 16:06:27 They prolly won't list if it's 850 MHz or not. May 02 16:14:21 abraxa_: yeah, there are, but that doesn't mean that it's true May 02 16:14:57 according to the coverage maps, 850Mhz is supposed to work decently well at my house in ME, but people who have GSM providers get very spotty coverage May 02 16:15:11 That's a bummer May 02 16:15:24 and I'm hearing mixed things about GSM at school May 02 16:15:39 people have it, and aren't having horrible issues, but some people complain May 02 16:49:10 yay! finally i have realtime to x264 with vorbis in mkv transcoding :) May 02 16:49:27 youtube streaming, in real time, via gprs, here i come May 02 16:50:06 * SpeedEvil wonders at cb22s camgirl impression. May 02 16:52:15 * cb22 slaps SpeedEvil around with some named pipes May 02 16:57:00 hmm, is xserver-kdrive currently configurable (compilable)? I'm getting this one when configuring and using MokoMakefile: | checking for /usr/share/sgml/X11/defs.ent... configure: error: cannot check for file existence when cross compiling May 02 16:58:19 Has anybody been using the neo1973 with T-mobile's service for the sidekick? May 02 16:58:32 you mean as UTMS? May 02 16:58:46 and where are you? May 02 16:58:46 nnpiggy: with the sidekick plan you mean? May 02 16:58:47 I thought it was GPRS. May 02 16:58:52 Pittsburgh. May 02 16:58:58 nnpiggy: the sidekick is UTMS - in the UK May 02 16:59:01 I don't think it's possible - everything goes through Danger's servers May 02 16:59:01 Yes, Qwell, the sidekick plan. May 02 16:59:10 nnpiggy: ah - I don't know in the US. May 02 16:59:26 nnpiggy: they have other unlimited plans for the same price though May 02 17:00:01 Really? I thought the other unlimited data plans were all quite expensive--nearly twice the price. May 02 17:00:04 the only difference, is that the sidekick comes with unlimited text messaging, whereas the "standard" or blackberry or whatever internet plans don't May 02 17:00:15 Ah. May 02 17:00:32 So if I want to use the texting, that adds up. May 02 17:00:42 I dropped my sidekick, because I'm gonna get a freerunner :D May 02 17:00:51 (*cough*hurry up*cough*) May 02 17:01:23 nnpiggy: don't quote me on this, but I think the unlimited internet plan may come with a few hundred text messages May 02 17:01:48 maybe she was just explaining that I could get a text plan on top of that, or something May 02 17:01:58 I'll look again... May 02 17:02:59 I hate navigating these vendor sites. I just want GRPS service. I have to decode their "You wouldn't understand so we made up a different name..." May 02 17:05:32 I dunno. It looks like $20/month on top of my voice plan. The sidekick offer includes voice, data, and messaging... May 02 17:07:36 nnpiggy: when I looked at it, it's ~$30 for voice, $20 for data, $15 for unlimited messaging May 02 17:07:40 that adds up fast May 02 17:07:50 I wish there were a cdma freerunner May 02 17:08:09 Yep. May 02 17:08:53 I can maybe justify the ~$50 for data/voice May 02 17:09:13 but $65/mo for a college student is... well, insane May 02 17:09:34 Yeah. As a working professional I'm balking at the possibility. May 02 17:10:18 t-mobile needs something like Sprint SERO May 02 18:02:33 summatusmentis: hey I am a ... sort of college student and $65 isn't so much for me May 02 18:02:52 summatusmentis: what's wrong with $40 base voice + $5 SMS + $20 data/wifi? May 02 18:02:56 s/data/gprs/ May 02 18:02:56 unknown_lamer meant: summatusmentis: what's wrong with $40 base voice + $5 SMS + $20 gprs/wifi? May 02 18:03:17 summatusmentis: unless you are one of those odd people who sends more than a thousand SMS a month May 02 18:04:10 I mean a basic landline is around $40 nowadays at least where I live thanks to taxes and for-profit utility monopolies May 02 18:04:22 and if you are in college you get free fast internet so :-) May 02 18:26:54 unknown_lamer: I do use a lot of SMS. It's not terribly unreasonable, I just don't really have income as a college student, so I don't really have the money for it May 02 18:27:01 also, not living on campus next year May 02 18:41:40 hi all. I am having trouble moving my evolution contact database to the neo. it worked before. it probably has something to do with my upgrade to ubuntu 8.04. is it not compatible? May 02 18:42:54 zween_: there was a gnome upgrade, maybe data structures changed May 02 18:43:23 zween_: the OH guys are the best to ask, they wrote pimlico and probably keep an eye on evolution changes May 02 18:44:09 hmm. that's what I though it might. Was just hoping someone else might have succeeded in doing so, so that I can continue looking for the problem on my end. May 02 18:46:31 * cb22 tthinks there is a conspiracy against him May 02 18:47:09 cb22: sssh!!! you're not supposed to know May 02 18:47:33 summatusmentis: the black helicopters just made it obvious :( May 02 18:47:46 umm... no... those aren't ours May 02 18:48:07 cd /usr/ports/www/lighttpd; make WITH_BLACKHELICOPTERS=yes May 02 18:54:53 I'm not happy with the decision to add git updates to the commits list. :( May 02 19:14:35 We could do with chroot environment for apps. I hear reiserfs is good for jails. May 02 19:17:24 SpeedEvil: going to hell May 02 19:22:22 bwahaha May 02 19:28:39 so they dropped the price to $399? that's pretty great. Does anyone have any estimates on when it'll be released? May 02 19:29:37 within weeks May 02 19:29:43 hopefuly May 02 19:30:51 Real Soon Now May 02 19:33:03 Freerunner forever! May 02 19:33:30 nice May 02 19:33:39 that makes me happy, will it be pretty stable? May 02 19:33:57 It will _not_ be consumer ready. May 02 19:34:12 how about power users? :) May 02 19:34:21 i think I might get it anyways May 02 19:34:21 Barring huge and unexpected software changes. May 02 19:34:48 It's fine as a small linux box with basic phone functions. May 02 19:35:08 More advanced stuff is slowly coming. May 02 19:36:09 yeah. As for phone functions, as long as it can make calls from the dialer and addressbook, I think that'll be suitable May 02 19:40:11 Another "basic phone function" is acceptable audio quality. My GTA01 gives a strong echo to the caller on the other end, and I'm not confident that GTA02 will be any better. May 02 19:40:58 That echo is stronger or weaker depending on the other caller. It's pretty bad on my wife's phone but barely noticable on my work phone. May 02 19:41:18 mixer settings apparently do affect it May 02 19:41:31 hopefully they can fix it up a bit... May 02 19:41:43 I have had worse on comercial phones. :P May 02 19:42:19 I'd rather be able to plug in my headphones and listen to my podcasts at work than have the echo removed. :P May 02 19:42:34 The mixer settings affect it, but at the expense of turning down the volume for the intended signals. May 02 19:42:42 though, it's pretty bleh that the echo thing has been known for ages and it's still going strong in the default install May 02 19:43:40 mjr, There has been so little work don't on the userspace since January I'm CONVINCED that Openmoko has a suite of apps sitting ready to replace these ones. :P May 02 20:08:21 openmoko: 03werner * r4414 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in: environment.in: added boot parameter "quiet", which is set with -D QUIET **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 02 20:30:50 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 03 00:00:23 2008 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 03 02:59:56 2008