**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 08 02:59:57 2008 Jun 08 04:52:29 Hi Everyone, quick question: I'm trying to install gllin on my GTA01(bv4) Using an April OM snapshot with latest updates (using opkg update/upgrade). I get a "Segmentation fault" when I try to install any of my local ipkg files. Anyone else see anything like this? Jun 08 06:52:35 good morning :) Jun 08 06:58:21 good morning Jun 08 07:00:21 good morning Jun 08 08:06:18 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r90da2dd57018 10/odeviced/src/helpers.vala: add read_integer and read_string helpers Jun 08 08:06:18 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rb00e0df37cf5 10/odeviced/src/helpers.vala: add write integer Jun 08 08:06:19 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rfc93ad16418e 10/odeviced/src/helpers.vala: simple fix to the arguments to the scanf Jun 08 08:06:19 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * re3bfe666537a 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/backlight.c: Plugins now use the helper routines to read and write file Jun 08 10:57:56 hey haakeyar :-) Jun 08 11:36:40 hey kristian-m (sorry that I didn't reply before now) Jun 08 11:57:37 kristian-m: I have to leave. Feel free to e-mail me if there is anything special. :-) (I haven't done anything with pgp and svn write access and that - I've been quite busy lately) Jun 08 12:03:05 after freerunner is out.. will they continue working on the hardware or will they start software development to get to a stable and usable ( end -user ) state ? Jun 08 12:08:12 i wud imagine both Jun 08 12:14:02 but one should be more accentuated .. -> the software . Jun 08 12:17:45 BBishop, the developers usually are not the same. and when they reuse components they can probably reuse the drivers, too Jun 08 12:19:43 well .. I wouldn't want to change the freerunner in the next year or two ... Jun 08 12:23:33 two years is a long time in mobile Jun 08 13:00:18 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rc0983e602a95 10/odeviced/plugins/ (9 files in 3 dirs): plugin confs have .plugin extension now Jun 08 14:30:25 Hello Jun 08 14:31:20 Can you call easily whit Freerunner Jun 08 14:31:28 or is it playing whit terminal Jun 08 14:31:37 happosade: easily Jun 08 14:31:59 :) Jun 08 14:32:13 Same whit SMS? Jun 08 14:32:18 I think so Jun 08 14:32:38 1. gen Neo you have tosend sms whit terminal..? Jun 08 14:33:02 happosade: don't know I don't have either :) Jun 08 14:33:30 Just rumots :P Jun 08 14:33:42 now waiting freerunner :) Jun 08 14:34:53 this may be surprising, but the SMS UI is not a hardware feature Jun 08 14:35:28 Oh My GOD! Jun 08 14:35:46 (Have there any application ready installed for that) Jun 08 14:39:48 so the moko is a gsm and not a 3g phone? Jun 08 14:40:09 right Jun 08 14:40:46 2.5g Jun 08 14:40:46 is there a 3g phone with ssh? Jun 08 14:40:49 GPRS Jun 08 14:41:00 spaceninja: from nokia there is Jun 08 14:44:06 how long have to wait for freefunner Jun 08 15:02:43 happosade: what's freerunner? Jun 08 15:04:24 it's the phone in manufacturing now Jun 08 15:04:36 the neo1973? Jun 08 15:04:39 or a new one? Jun 08 15:04:44 no, that's the earlier version Jun 08 15:05:00 how many will they produce? Jun 08 15:05:32 presumably as much as we will buy Jun 08 15:06:13 so openmoko is buying them, and then selling them? Jun 08 15:06:40 no.. Jun 08 15:06:51 or is neo installing openmoko from the beginning? Jun 08 15:07:02 is openmoko the os? Jun 08 15:07:04 :) Jun 08 15:07:07 something like thät Jun 08 15:07:07 yes Jun 08 15:07:09 that Jun 08 15:07:14 yes Jun 08 15:07:53 is the circuit schematics "open source" Jun 08 15:07:58 ? Jun 08 15:08:00 no Jun 08 15:08:06 why not? Jun 08 15:08:30 mjr: katoinki, että tuttu nick... Jun 08 15:10:14 so if I want this phone, I should go to the phone dealer and ask for a neo freerunner? Jun 08 15:10:28 yes Jun 08 15:10:40 they're not yet out though Jun 08 15:10:51 or go to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales Jun 08 15:11:38 and will be mostly available through mail order Jun 08 15:14:14 how do I sign up= Jun 08 15:14:45 spaceninja: I'd recommend you read the wiki for a bit Jun 08 15:17:15 probably best; here's the summary: it won't be a consumer phone for a while Jun 08 15:18:12 Aren't we getting the crash tests videos ? Jun 08 15:27:19 the absurd part is that I can get a mini laptop with the same ammount of money Jun 08 15:27:23 oh well Jun 08 15:28:11 ...try to do GSM calls with it. Jun 08 15:31:50 it's just some extra circuit hardware and software, not some fusion reactor built in it. Jun 08 15:32:53 or it could be that you you need to pay for the gsm license to use gsm Jun 08 15:34:04 size and battery life cost Jun 08 15:34:09 small size, that is Jun 08 15:34:20 relative to a laptop, anyway Jun 08 15:34:55 boot time maybe ? Jun 08 15:35:06 maybe not Jun 08 15:35:11 my laptop boots in less than 30 seconds Jun 08 15:35:29 I'm thinking about buying a ultraportable laptop Jun 08 15:36:05 I think it's fun to have the FreeRunner in my pocket while at the same time running the wifi chip in monitor mode and nmap collecting unencrypted passwords at my university Jun 08 15:36:16 :-p Jun 08 15:36:30 no monitor mode Jun 08 15:36:36 too bad Jun 08 15:36:44 why not though ? Jun 08 15:37:12 I started learning C recently ... maybe I'll have a chance to patch the driver to support monitor mode Jun 08 15:37:13 the (proprietary) hardmac firmware doesn't do it. AP mode neither. Jun 08 15:37:19 doh Jun 08 15:37:30 fuck proprietary firmware Jun 08 15:38:03 Yeah it's a bugger. Too bad it was about the only choice where even the host-side driver was free Jun 08 15:38:05 Why didn't you guys follow Stallman's advise on the firmware part ! Jun 08 15:38:51 ask the manufacture for a small-limited firmware that is almost useless ... while doing everything else in software(driver) Jun 08 15:38:52 I suspect it had much to do with the above Jun 08 15:38:53 * mwester smacks CVirus over the head with a truckload of pragmatism. Jun 08 15:39:29 my vocabulary sucks .. let me check what that is Jun 08 15:39:36 also being a gsm phone, the line has already been drawn that prop. firmware is to be included anyway... Jun 08 15:39:42 actually this was Stallman's advice to use a chip that runs everything on the target Jun 08 15:39:55 and have no proprietary driver in linux Jun 08 15:45:17 * balrog-k1n uploads his mplayer tree for freerunner Jun 08 15:47:06 how long is freerunner batterylife? Jun 08 15:51:03 heard it's 4-6 hours with linux Jun 08 15:51:08 maybe more Jun 08 15:51:47 nah, not more Jun 08 15:52:07 4-6 without suspend Jun 08 15:53:26 but it doesn't have a dvd reader Jun 08 15:53:30 .... Jun 08 15:53:43 no worries, hook an usb dvd drive :] Jun 08 15:54:24 (and see how many seconds the battery will last then) Jun 08 15:54:33 * zash guesses 12 Jun 08 15:54:36 hehe Jun 08 15:55:02 dont usb dvd-drives need shitloads of power Jun 08 15:55:19 well, they generally would need external power for at least burning Jun 08 15:55:34 unless you have a hi-power usb port Jun 08 15:55:45 or other nonstandard arrangement, yes Jun 08 15:55:56 like mba.. Jun 08 15:56:07 apple seems to like nonstandard Jun 08 15:56:08 still, at least some operate fine for reading with usb power Jun 08 15:56:31 (well, my personal experience is with reading CDs, to be exact) Jun 08 16:05:37 but 8 gb flash space? Jun 08 16:07:24 why is there no 2.5" bt harddrives? Jun 08 16:07:35 imagine the ASUM! Jun 08 16:10:09 Imagine sub-100KB/s speeds :D Jun 08 16:10:56 and you need how much to stream mp3? Jun 08 16:11:35 lt 40 KB/s Jun 08 17:00:14 hi Jun 08 17:02:45 as i've just read on the openmoko wiki, the GTA02 will be probably shipped soon... does anyone have experience, how long it'll usually take from production start until you can actually use the phone (manufacturing, pre-ordering, payment, shipping...)... broke my current phone today and don't know, whether i should by another proprietary crappy phone or just wait, until i can use the GTA02 Jun 08 17:03:00 s/by/buy/ Jun 08 17:03:02 eliasp meant: as i've just read on the openmoko wiki, the GTA02 will be probably shipped soon... does anyone have experience, how long it'll usually take from production start until you can actually use the phone (manufacturing, pre-ordering, payment, shipping...)... b... Jun 08 17:03:28 eliasp: think a month or something Jun 08 17:03:41 eliasp: Just to make sure: "having" a GTA02 is different than "using" it as the software is not yet ready Jun 08 17:04:34 ok, so it will probably not yet ready for daily use... how is the current state of the software, does just basic phone-call stuff work.. that's all i _really_ need... Jun 08 17:05:12 that mostly works okay Jun 08 17:05:16 mostly Jun 08 17:05:16 well daily image for this day is terrible on GTA01 Jun 08 17:05:20 segfaults all the time Jun 08 17:05:25 but otherwise Jun 08 17:05:28 shows promise Jun 08 17:05:30 ccfly: Well, GTA01 is a different bag of beans Jun 08 17:05:40 also applications taken from qtopisa should be quite mature Jun 08 17:05:43 true Jun 08 17:05:49 ok, but GTA02 should work (as long as i just do phone calls) Jun 08 17:06:07 calls, SMS and address book should work Jun 08 17:06:11 I guess Jun 08 17:06:14 ok, nice.. thats all i need in the start.. everything else may be buggy ... Jun 08 17:06:24 ccfly, well. Hearing from the OM guy who's been jacking it up to run on X, not overly mature... But apparently they work to some extent. Jun 08 17:06:35 * zash would be happy to have ssh Jun 08 17:06:37 ccfly: Yes and no -- qtopia is mature, but the version being used is Qtopia for X -- and I've heard that's really only "beta" quality at best. Jun 08 17:06:45 so i'll order one as soon as possible... have to use the current phone (crappy Nokia E65) blindly, as the display is broken ;( Jun 08 17:06:56 also I'm not quite sure how qt and EFL are put together Jun 08 17:07:02 mwester, also their gsm handling seems to be ... lacking Jun 08 17:07:06 eliasp: makes it hard to read your text messages, I suppose. :D Jun 08 17:07:07 where does qtopisa apps end and EFL begin Jun 08 17:07:17 qtopia Jun 08 17:07:22 ccfly, where they want to? Jun 08 17:07:53 mwester: yeah ;) and calling people from the address book isn't that easy this way ;) Jun 08 17:08:22 I was reffering to OM shell, which parts are Qtopisa and which ones are EFL Jun 08 17:08:31 just curious Jun 08 17:08:38 there's a mode for blind people, where the phone uses a speech-synthesizer for the menu, but without a display, i won't be able to enable the synthesizer ,) Jun 08 17:08:40 please ignore terrible typos Jun 08 17:09:01 I've dropped back to the standard image (non-ASU) for GTA01 at this point -- it was actually pretty much working before this change-of-plan was sprung on us all. Jun 08 17:09:29 eliasp: cant you use numbers to navigate? or have nokia stoped with that? Jun 08 17:09:36 well it's not a bad plan, it's just that timing is a bit unfortunate Jun 08 17:09:37 ok, but in the end.. this all sounds good... GTA02 will be ready for use in ~4-5 weeks... until then, i'll take another old phone ... thank you for information guys Jun 08 17:10:07 zash: don't know.. will read the manual, but the new software is really crappy at all (Symbian S60 3rd Gen) Jun 08 17:10:47 zash: navigation is like going through a maze Jun 08 17:11:00 eliasp: i have not used newer nokias Jun 08 17:11:13 eliasp: but my 3310 is the best Jun 08 17:11:14 eliasp, see how to turn on the synth step-by-step with another similar phone? Jun 08 17:12:05 zash: i'll try by following the manual... don't know of anyone else using a E65 or similar one.. Jun 08 17:13:03 zash: wouldn't suggest to use one of the newer nokias than the generation of 3310 etc. at all.. never used such an ugly phone software... completely buggy (~3-4 crashes a day are common) Jun 08 17:14:34 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r75e38191ba48 10/odeviced/src/ (plugin.vala service.vala): changed some properties around Jun 08 17:14:35 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r4a803146995e 10/odeviced/src/service.vala: fix indentation Jun 08 17:14:36 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r1fe0a0446ccf 10/odeviced/src/plugin.vala: fixly incorrectly constructed plugin.conf Jun 08 17:14:37 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r381474069254 10/odeviced/src/helpers.vala: return plugin.conf Jun 08 17:15:02 eliasp: i have seen some newer nokia in class with 3310, ( like 11* or something) but it did not have navigate-by-numbers. the crapness Jun 08 17:15:28 the best way to know about the availability of the pre-ordering website is signing up the announce-list, right? Jun 08 17:15:45 eliasp: yes Jun 08 17:16:12 ok, thx... going to make my E65 usable now with the synthesizer.. thanks so far guys... Jun 08 18:52:15 Hi, I flashed a "recommended latest" image to qemu, is there a terminal in it? where? Jun 08 18:53:33 found. ignore please :) Jun 08 19:32:47 Hiz, Since I install irssi in my neo1973? Jun 08 19:34:03 ssh + screen + irssi = WIN Jun 08 19:34:45 zash: ;) Jun 08 19:54:02 = http://maddox.xmission.com/putty3.gif Jun 08 19:55:07 moist Jun 08 20:08:06 I never saw the obsession with her myself, there are far better looking women walking down streets around the world every day Jun 08 20:25:59 Hi All. I get a "Segmentation fault" when I try to install the gllin ipkg on a Neo1973 (GTA01Bv4) running a recent om (and qtopia) images. Anyone else see this? Jun 08 20:26:50 gcb77: Can you run it through strace? Jun 08 20:27:07 gcb77: how recent a gllin package? Jun 08 20:27:16 old packages barf, new packages are ok. Jun 08 20:27:21 It's not the first - the binary only version? Jun 08 20:27:45 SpeedEvil: gllin_1.0+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Jun 08 20:27:55 ssh phone Jun 08 20:27:56 What - we have source now? Jun 08 20:27:58 oops Jun 08 20:28:02 No. Jun 08 20:28:17 mwester: I mean the only binary version. Jun 08 20:28:29 mwester: the one with only the gllin binary hasn't worked for a while Jun 08 20:28:52 Didn't know we had multiple... I've the same one gcb77 has. Jun 08 20:29:06 But opkg install barfs on installing other packages too. Jun 08 20:29:59 mwester: yes, same here. all my local packages fail Jun 08 20:31:38 Nothing useful from strace -- "write" is the last system call ("Installing gllin (blah) to root..."), then it just derefs a null pointer and dies. Jun 08 20:33:02 You're not out of disk? (though that should not do that) Jun 08 20:33:18 mwester: Mind filing a bug, adding thos as a CC if it doesn't get assigned to him? Jun 08 20:33:37 Has anyone gotten TangoGPS (or another nav app) working on the Freerunner? Jun 08 20:33:40 -noaction flag also barfs, so it's not even actually doing any installing when it pukes. Jun 08 20:33:51 yes Jun 08 20:34:01 kdean06: oh - no Jun 08 20:34:21 SpeedEvil: Disk is kind of low for me, only 3.2 mb left Jun 08 20:34:38 The Human Journey. Whomever's blog that is has. :P Jun 08 20:34:39 kdean06: I've used the GPS - with cat - I can't think if GPSd is setup properly with the launchy script in tangogps why it might not work Jun 08 20:34:43 I should have googled first. ;P Jun 08 20:35:38 disk space isn't the problem; I was able to install "joe" from the feeds -- but when I copied the ipkg to the SD card and installed from there, it died. Jun 08 20:36:59 'works for me'. Jun 08 20:37:15 (or did on the last install I did, which admittedly was a while back. Jun 08 20:37:36 Yeah, it's a recent breakag Jun 08 20:37:37 e Jun 08 20:38:28 * mwester was gonna make some comment about how core apps need automated test suites before being committed, but then realized that *we* are the automated test suite. Jun 08 20:39:42 Ouch. Jun 08 20:39:54 I think my last known good install and update was 05-26. gllin worked then. we can try a few images from there on and see where it breaks. Jun 08 20:44:48 balrog-kun: Nice work! Cheers! Jun 08 20:51:11 :) Jun 08 20:51:17 ScaredyCat: hey Jun 08 20:56:40 kudos to you from me too, balrog-kun ! :D Jun 08 21:03:37 balrog-kun next think you write a directfb modul? Jun 08 21:03:40 *g* Jun 08 21:11:59 woglinde: since there's nothing secret about glamo registers now, i'm sure there will be plenty of volunteers for that :) Jun 08 21:12:36 hmm is there an infodump on glamo somewhere? Jun 08 21:12:38 balrog-kuhn I guess nope Jun 08 21:13:04 on were you just referring to the current x drivers? Jun 08 21:13:22 but I have not the money for dok Jun 08 21:13:40 * mjr still wants that mpeg4 decoding... Jun 08 21:13:55 mjr: there's x, there's the kernel and there's libglamo Jun 08 21:19:24 * SpeedEvil wants the RISC too. Jun 08 21:25:31 hi, I want to use openmoko with qemu and I did what the document says on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Jun 08 21:26:37 however during the boot process ( after a time ) OM prints error messages which state that no space left on the device Jun 08 21:27:29 try to create/copy necessary files and every time prints no space left on device error Jun 08 21:27:46 then no xserver starts and freezes Jun 08 21:29:09 good night Jun 08 21:35:58 Schlaaand Jun 08 21:36:00 :D Jun 08 22:08:58 anyone know if there is an openmoko update mailing list? Jun 08 22:11:12 as much as I love the look of the neo freerunner, I'm getting a bit sick visiting the .com site every week, welll... day Jun 08 22:14:05 badcloud: See the topic. Jun 08 22:14:25 will do, thanks Jun 08 22:23:58 this phone, my god this phone... how many of you tingle just thinking of what it will be capable of? Jun 08 22:28:34 I guess I'm the only one not tingling quietly then... Jun 08 22:28:43 hehe Jun 08 23:31:58 balrog-kun: Holy shit, major congratulations and gratitude! Jun 08 23:33:49 balrog-kun: raster had me believing that this basically wouldn't happen :-) which was hard to fathom since it seems a hw accelerated video api should be just a state engine initializing it then feeding it pre-formatted data Jun 08 23:34:03 synchronizing audio seems as if it could be a bit of a trick Jun 08 23:34:35 er, a hw accelerated video api should be such that the client is just a state engine blah blah blah Jun 08 23:34:53 It gets more complex - a bit - if it's not fullscreen completely Jun 08 23:35:12 hmm, how so? Jun 08 23:35:24 It seems to me you'd just tell the accelerator where to render output Jun 08 23:35:31 if the api is sane Jun 08 23:36:24 hi Jun 08 23:36:35 hi Jun 08 23:37:22 is there a log for this channel? Jun 08 23:38:04 igor321: Look at the community portal page on wiki.openmoko.org Jun 08 23:38:12 it has linkies Jun 08 23:38:17 thanks Jun 08 23:38:50 yw Jun 08 23:40:07 wurp2|away: yep, it's not very complex, most of the complex parts are already done by mplayer anyway (finding and separating the video frames, aka demuxing) Jun 08 23:40:38 drawing OSD, synchronising Jun 08 23:41:25 balrog-kun: so what's the status ATM? Jun 08 23:41:42 balrog-kun: So audio/video syncing is already working? Jun 08 23:42:06 balrog-kun: You didn't have to do anything special to account for a delay between when you feed a vid frame to the hw accel and when it actually renders? Jun 08 23:43:42 yeah, I figured demuxing would be handled in some (well, many) standard libraries out there Jun 08 23:43:43 SpeedEvil: it plays video fine, although a bit slower than i expected (but pending actual investigation as so far it was only getting it to work at all) Jun 08 23:44:00 I've done a little video programming, and I recall 2 or 3 libraries that did that Jun 08 23:44:08 wurp2|away: i don't see an issue in syncing (a bigger issue than in case of software video) Jun 08 23:44:30 i added a one frame delay in video i'm affraid to get a better throughput Jun 08 23:44:52 I wouldn't think one frame would be noticable for sync Jun 08 23:44:53 maybe there's a way around it, i geuss now the people who know about video stuff will be able to peek in Jun 08 23:45:27 just because i haven't see anything about selections when treeview like list of items (except select all / none in a tap & hold menu), so what about a selection mode runned by the same way Jun 08 23:46:39 Trivial workaroudn with mplayer. -delay nn.mmm Jun 08 23:47:16 SpeedEvil: Good point. The audio/video work I did was realtime Jun 08 23:47:30 so syncing is a much bigger issue, since lag changes over time Jun 08 23:47:59 although... really if cpu doesn't get divvied out evenly, I would expect such issues in playback too Jun 08 23:48:17 balrog-kun: i just read the log, you are my hero, carry on :) Jun 08 23:48:31 balrog-kun: what's 'top' like when playing video? Jun 08 23:50:37 SpeedEvil: show's 0% CPU usage (mplayer near the bottom of the list) when playing only video Jun 08 23:51:02 i was surprised because it still does parse all the data and all Jun 08 23:51:13 wow Jun 08 23:51:31 balrog-kun: I would think the parsing would be pretty lightweight Jun 08 23:51:37 balrog-kun: Is GPU data transfer properly counted? Jun 08 23:51:54 balrog-kun: in that it's PIO I mean. Jun 08 23:51:57 it's binary frames of known lengths, yes, not variable length multilevel text like xml Jun 08 23:52:15 gotta go, dinner time Jun 08 23:52:23 congrats again, balrog-kun, and thanks! Jun 08 23:52:27 Anyay :) Jun 08 23:53:32 SpeedEvil: i don't know, it's a memcpy Jun 08 23:54:01 should be counted correctly Jun 08 23:54:22 balrog-kun: Can the decoder simply do one avi, or could it in principle do multiple animations on screen? Jun 08 23:54:46 I'm thinking of animated buttons and stuff Jun 08 23:55:44 SpeedEvil: it can do just one afaik, unless you use some veyr clever multiplexing Jun 08 23:56:00 Oh well. Jun 08 23:56:04 Just a random thought. Jun 09 02:10:21 openmoko: 03andrew * r4480 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/neo1973.c hw/s3c2410.c openmoko/flash.sh): Jun 09 02:10:21 openmoko: Use u-boot "dynpart" when flashing, with all it's consequences, to get the exact same partition sizes as gta01. Jun 09 02:10:21 openmoko: Don't print repeated backlight level messages. Jun 09 02:10:21 openmoko: Don't die on programmatic CPU off, although there's no way to resume atm. Jun 09 02:22:11 moo Jun 09 02:50:35 oow **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 09 02:59:56 2008