**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 11 02:59:56 2008 Jun 11 03:32:42 Kind of sad that the Neo doesn't support the 850Band rate Jun 11 03:35:03 does it not? Jun 11 03:35:09 the freerunner does Jun 11 03:35:14 Does it? Jun 11 03:35:18 i thought so Jun 11 03:35:23 according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner it does Jun 11 03:35:37 =o Jun 11 03:35:46 ScaredyCat: yo Jun 11 03:35:57 oh snaps Jun 11 03:35:57 Tri-band GSM and GPRS for North America (850/1800/1900 Mhz) and the rest of the world (900/1800/1900 Mhz) Jun 11 03:36:06 Now I'm a happy piglet Jun 11 03:37:36 http://www.trisoft.de/en_freerunner.htm Jun 11 03:37:49 order yours today Jun 11 03:39:25 unless you live in the US Jun 11 03:39:32 Then order one when the OM store opens Jun 11 03:39:39 unless you want to wait for it to ship from DE Jun 11 03:39:42 haha Jun 11 03:40:36 Can't wait until it comes out. Developing for it will be fun :D Jun 11 03:40:43 I'm having fun on the gta01 Jun 11 03:40:46 Most of the time Jun 11 03:41:00 I didn't have fun last night when I opkg updated and everything went fubar Jun 11 03:41:13 =o Jun 11 03:42:55 I think XorA|gone is fixing it tonight Jun 11 03:43:06 The packages in the repo are b0rken right now :-( Jun 11 03:56:13 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4ee7a8396832 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [openmoko] the original reversion of linux-openmoko-devel Jun 11 04:03:24 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r65503644da63 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [openmoko] the original reversion of linux-openmoko-devel Jun 11 04:16:08 why does trisoft sell it with ~550 $ ? ( 350 euros ) ? Jun 11 04:16:15 not nice of them Jun 11 04:18:38 dunno Jun 11 04:18:52 but probably to handle import duties, shipping and also cover possible exchange rate fluctuations Jun 11 04:18:55 as wella smake a profit Jun 11 04:19:18 well .. 150 $ is quite a difference.. Jun 11 04:23:42 what's the warranty on north american devices? Jun 11 04:26:52 dunno Jun 11 04:27:24 great! :) Jun 11 04:28:19 doc|home, you couldn't have asked for anything more ! :D Jun 11 04:28:26 you can 'think' its unlimited ! :)) Jun 11 04:28:41 haha, yeah, reality tends to suck when my imagination gets going :) Jun 11 04:35:48 BBishop, well on the 350€ you have 16% taxes, import taxes, lots more taxes in germany, shipping, handling and most imprtantly three years warranty - if your freerunner is broken you can exchange it for a working one right away - this is what i spend money on Jun 11 04:36:38 and since the $ is so weak, it's nonsense to convert it into $ this way and then compare Jun 11 04:37:00 if you do not agree with trisoft you can buy at pulster Jun 11 04:37:49 but they are not trustworthy IMHO because they lied a lot and openly declared a pricing war on trisoft - i find their actions kind of childish Jun 11 04:38:43 trisoft is in our german channel #neo1973-germany the whole day and talks with us, answers all kind of questions and supplies us with the latest and greatest insider infos from taiwan Jun 11 04:39:55 BBishop, any questions? i have to go to work soon Jun 11 04:41:08 nope Jun 11 04:41:10 I'm out Jun 11 04:41:35 ( work too ) Jun 11 04:41:48 thanks for the info .. have fun at work Jun 11 04:44:14 raster, a short question on the vga vs. qvga thingy - how much do we have to rant to get vga? Jun 11 04:44:45 did i say you wouldnt? Jun 11 04:45:00 well for gta03 Jun 11 04:45:06 i did say qvga was an option Jun 11 04:45:08 but unlikely Jun 11 04:45:13 oh Jun 11 04:45:15 sry then Jun 11 04:45:19 he Jun 11 04:45:21 (see my emails :)) Jun 11 04:45:31 if everyone went "qvga is fine" Jun 11 04:45:36 i did und i must have read the wrong ones (didnt read all) Jun 11 04:45:37 i might re-consider it again Jun 11 04:45:42 i had already decided vga Jun 11 04:45:54 and that was my recommendation for gta03 Jun 11 04:46:09 but it seemed to me that qvga was already agreed on - so i asked Jun 11 04:46:20 but if i get pushback to have designs implemente dperfectly Jun 11 04:46:24 with all their alpha blending etc. Jun 11 04:46:42 then we need faster processors or qvga... Jun 11 04:46:48 that is the bit where i go "well.. to get the alpha - and then smooth scrolling and.. and.. u'll need to drop resolution" Jun 11 04:47:07 right Jun 11 04:47:08 i am sure i explained this Jun 11 04:47:12 you did Jun 11 04:47:18 several times Jun 11 04:47:29 this is why i didnt ask for reasons ^^ Jun 11 04:47:34 gta03 isnt gettign a new processor Jun 11 04:47:51 and its vga - but could move to qvga - if push come sot shove and efects are important Jun 11 04:47:57 and if the resolution is not important Jun 11 04:48:38 there was a tenative mention that smoothness and look might be more interestign to product management than resolution Jun 11 04:48:48 and so i wanted to poke around to see what people really needed vga for Jun 11 04:48:52 vga is nice Jun 11 04:48:55 my 0,02$ : i would like you guys to first concentrate on a stable open phone api - to get the things under the hood done. if these work one can care for bling Jun 11 04:49:07 but if u want to do anything "fancy" its a high cost cpu-wise Jun 11 04:49:40 josch: you may - but i am given mokcups and flahs demos and the request is to have them "pixel perfect" Jun 11 04:49:46 they want the alpha blending etc. Jun 11 04:49:51 they may nto get it Jun 11 04:49:52 who? Jun 11 04:49:56 or maybe they will - but i'd be slow Jun 11 04:50:00 product marketing Jun 11 04:50:03 ah kk Jun 11 04:50:11 i am trying to balance things here Jun 11 04:50:21 i though the customers - but i do not know anyone prefering bling over vga Jun 11 04:50:27 features, capabilities, what users can do with it and whap apps they can write Jun 11 04:50:28 etc. Jun 11 04:50:55 i ain't buying the thing until i can place phone calls on it Jun 11 04:50:59 nuff said. ;) Jun 11 04:51:09 wasabi, this you can do since one year Jun 11 04:51:19 Oh? I heard it barely worked. Jun 11 04:51:21 just say ATD to /dev/ttySAC0 Jun 11 04:51:24 ... Jun 11 04:51:33 hehe Jun 11 04:51:36 I think we know what I'm talking about. :) Jun 11 04:51:44 you talk about a API? Jun 11 04:51:49 A dialer. Jun 11 04:51:51 or you talk about the apps? Jun 11 04:51:57 A simple plain dialer app, with a simple basic contact list, at least. Jun 11 04:52:03 wasabi, you see it is NOT clear what you mean Jun 11 04:52:22 Well, if it can't do the main things I use a phone for, I'm not going to spend money on it. =/ Jun 11 04:52:25 josch: i have heard an amazingly strong resentment of anything less than vga Jun 11 04:52:31 though i am really wondering why Jun 11 04:52:43 maybe it is that i have it in front of me Jun 11 04:52:45 the screne is tiny Jun 11 04:53:01 and small text is going to be hard for anyone without amazing eyesight to read Jun 11 04:53:16 whihc is why i really wonder at the vehemency of vga vs qvga Jun 11 04:53:21 this depends on the fontsize - not the resolutuin Jun 11 04:54:38 well i think i do not have to argue with you about this as Jun 11 04:54:45 we are both on the vga side ^^ Jun 11 04:55:16 QVGA is ugly Jun 11 04:55:23 josch: i prefer resolution myself Jun 11 04:55:26 but i also like eyecandy Jun 11 04:55:27 (the flaming starts) Jun 11 04:55:29 i am personally torn Jun 11 04:55:37 * Sonicadvance stabs resolution Jun 11 04:55:39 so i'm not biased Jun 11 04:55:55 i am trying to know what you guys want and want to do Jun 11 04:56:00 why do u really NEED vga? Jun 11 04:56:07 going down res is easy Jun 11 04:56:09 its always easy Jun 11 04:56:11 wasnt that answered on the ML? Jun 11 04:56:15 if push comes to shove u take the easy option Jun 11 04:56:24 yup Jun 11 04:56:26 it was answered Jun 11 04:56:40 but there is a lot of unbalanced o0pinion flaoting about on the ml Jun 11 04:56:51 like "you cant cant browse the web on qvga!" Jun 11 04:56:56 as if vga suddenly makes it possible Jun 11 04:57:01 or 80x24 terminals Jun 11 04:57:02 etc. Jun 11 04:57:15 if we discuss - lets discuss based on actual facts :) Jun 11 04:57:20 LOL Jun 11 04:57:50 ie saying "u cant do an 80x24 temrinal in qvga" i wrong Jun 11 04:57:51 u can Jun 11 04:57:54 its readable Jun 11 04:57:56 not beautful Jun 11 04:57:59 but readable Jun 11 04:58:02 and usable Jun 11 04:58:12 for me ... I just don't like the fact that I can see each and every pixel of my screen with QVGA Jun 11 04:58:13 browsing is possible - justas on vga Jun 11 04:58:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian <= nice hack of mine never this beautiful wth qvga ;) Jun 11 04:58:26 but u'll end up having to zoom in and out of web pages and.or scroll with either vga or qvga Jun 11 04:58:46 that's why we need a wider screen :-p Jun 11 04:58:59 or to buy an eee.... Jun 11 04:59:19 even 800x480 isnt really enough for most of the web Jun 11 04:59:26 on the n800 Jun 11 04:59:29 u need more Jun 11 04:59:41 have to go now Jun 11 04:59:48 thx raster for your infos Jun 11 04:59:48 and then its still squeezed into s tiiiiny space - fonts ar miniscule, unless u enlarge them Jun 11 04:59:58 and then u are back to the same problem - it doesnt fit so u need to zoom or scroll Jun 11 05:00:00 :) Jun 11 05:00:06 but gta03 is vga Jun 11 05:00:08 freeerunner is Jun 11 05:00:17 :) Jun 11 05:00:19 cya guys Jun 11 05:00:23 cya Jun 11 05:01:58 well .. my stupid friends will be a pain in the ass after they know that the GTA03 is still a QVGA device Jun 11 05:02:23 I've been trying to convince different people to buy the FreeRunner or the coming one Jun 11 05:04:55 vallor: who said the gta03 is a qvga device? Jun 11 05:05:44 CVirus: i think it is becoming more and more difficult to convince your every day person (non-engineer) to get a freerunner over other phones Jun 11 05:06:14 true Jun 11 05:07:01 converting people's desktops and laptops to GNU/Linux is way much easier than converting their mobile phones Jun 11 05:07:52 right.. especially if there are other phones that are cheaper and have more functionality than OM has Jun 11 05:08:31 I think no one will buy the GTA03 Jun 11 05:08:43 no 3G, no VGA, nothing Jun 11 05:09:27 i think so too.. except by "no one" i'd say a few hackers who'd like to have something they can play with Jun 11 05:10:14 CVirus: who said the gta03 is qvga? Jun 11 05:10:32 I thought it was ! Jun 11 05:10:38 please find the quote Jun 11 05:10:47 in fact i said the exact opposite Jun 11 05:10:48 in email Jun 11 05:10:53 ah ok .. bad me Jun 11 05:10:53 and right here a few mins ago Jun 11 05:11:04 if you paid attention to what was actually said Jun 11 05:11:09 i said qvga is an OPTION for gta03 Jun 11 05:11:31 I was confused .. sorry Jun 11 05:11:38 i was considering it as an option if i get a push to have the fancy effects product management want work Jun 11 05:12:33 I see Jun 11 05:12:43 given cpu isnt improving Jun 11 05:12:47 either the effects are slow Jun 11 05:12:50 or dont exist Jun 11 05:12:53 or resolution goes down Jun 11 05:13:09 i was wondering what people needed vga for Jun 11 05:13:13 i mean NEEDED Jun 11 05:13:18 i know it is nicer Jun 11 05:13:21 thats obvious Jun 11 05:13:26 i hve it in front of me daily Jun 11 05:14:33 for me, it's just that it looks nice so that I can show off at my friends or so Jun 11 05:15:01 sure Jun 11 05:15:03 bragging rights Jun 11 05:15:04 :) Jun 11 05:15:12 i know that! Jun 11 05:15:13 :) Jun 11 05:15:20 i like the vga res myself Jun 11 05:15:20 hehe Jun 11 05:15:42 but i have to be brutally honest and look at it technically in trying to deliver somethnig product mangement want to do Jun 11 05:15:51 and i they want fancy alpha blended dialogs etc. Jun 11 05:16:00 i need to look for wasy of getting there Jun 11 05:16:08 regardless if i like it or not Jun 11 05:16:18 raster: why do you want to know the people's opinion ? Jun 11 05:16:33 and i wanted to know - if gta03 were qvga - what could you no longer do (other than the obvious) Jun 11 05:16:41 I thought the management takes the decisions regarding hardware and stuff .. not the community Jun 11 05:16:44 CVirus: i ddnt want opinion Jun 11 05:16:53 i asked for thigns u just technially CANT do Jun 11 05:16:58 ah Jun 11 05:17:17 i really can't think of any Jun 11 05:17:23 nothing that cant be somehow scaled down to qvga Jun 11 05:17:28 it will not look as nice Jun 11 05:17:31 but it can be done Jun 11 05:17:34 sure thing Jun 11 05:17:42 as anything that FITS in vga pixels Jun 11 05:17:45 but is on a 2.8" screen Jun 11 05:18:05 that you "ant" fit on the same screen in qvga Jun 11 05:18:15 is probably not readable by your eyesight Jun 11 05:18:23 its a tny blur of pixels u cant make out Jun 11 05:18:28 unless u have amazing eyesight Jun 11 05:18:29 :) Jun 11 05:22:02 i am still amazed how many people claim they will be able to read 10-pixel fonts on a 285dpi screen on their phone Jun 11 05:29:12 its called tri-focals :) Jun 11 05:29:51 * mwester is amazed how much energy has been invested into the glamo, the high-res stuff, the fancy-schmancy wigetry, and arguments about all that, when we don't have a basic framework for the apps to run within. Jun 11 05:30:33 QVGA is fine, if it will allow management to focus on the sad fact that the software doesn't work yet. Jun 11 05:30:54 mwester: isn't there plenty of "frameworks" already?-) Jun 11 05:31:07 Yeah, rather like the tower of babel. Jun 11 06:37:21 morning Jun 11 06:38:00 good Jun 11 07:56:29 raster: I'd be REALLY curious to actually look at the stuff your talking about (pixel sizes). Jun 11 07:56:45 morning Jun 11 07:56:50 raster: I find my self having to shrink as much as I can on LCD screens, as the resolution (compared to screen size) is just way too low Jun 11 07:59:21 damnit the price for the new iphone Jun 11 07:59:52 wibbit: here is how i see it. Jun 11 08:00:01 my 1600x1200 20" monitor has 100dpi Jun 11 08:01:45 and yes- i see the pixels Jun 11 08:01:45 but its rather decent looking Jun 11 08:01:45 the vga neo is 285dpi Jun 11 08:01:46 even at qvga its 143dpi Jun 11 08:01:48 thats still 40% better dpi than my monitor Jun 11 08:01:50 and thats quite nice Jun 11 08:09:08 raster: was just reading back over the conversation since about 4am, hence quiet Jun 11 08:10:17 In all honesty, I can't answer what can or can't be done if dropping from VGA to qvga. I'd really need to have two example devices one by one. Jun 11 08:10:36 raster: My aversion to "low resolutions" is probably more due to poor flexability in previous phones. Jun 11 08:12:52 raster: I've currently got a Nokia E70, which has a res of 352x416, which is substantially higher than qvga (in fact some where in the middle of vga and qvga I think?), I am frequently annoyed by how little information is presented on the screen due to the size of every thing, even when I make as much as possible as small as possible. Jun 11 08:17:35 As I don't have a device with the dpi as high as the freerunner, AND the flexability to set font sizes freely, I can't really give any definitive answers. Jun 11 08:17:39 Not sure if that helps Jun 11 08:21:43 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r62ead32778c2 10/packages/e17/e-wm_cvs.bb: [e] Make sure edbus is present. Jun 11 08:21:43 openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r634eb4bfc755 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [packagekit] Update to a public version of packagekit Jun 11 08:21:44 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.dev * re859368bbb4b 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: fix evas build to disable threads, and clean up formatting Jun 11 08:21:44 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r2e9934c0eb54 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: [evas] Bump the PR because the config changed Jun 11 08:26:41 is xulrunner available in openmoko? Jun 11 08:33:33 mbuf mom Jun 11 08:34:05 woglinde, sorry, mom? Jun 11 08:34:12 have to do a grep Jun 11 08:35:27 mom = one moment please Jun 11 08:35:46 hm xulrunner is not in Jun 11 08:36:49 woglinde, i was doing a grep as well Jun 11 08:37:13 was just curious if someone already looked into it Jun 11 08:42:29 mbuf: I looked into firefox 3, its a git Jun 11 08:43:25 hm firefox 3 shrinked the size incredible Jun 11 08:43:32 ok Jun 11 08:44:15 mbuf: there is general mozilla stuff, but its always been a pain Jun 11 08:44:29 mbuf: and mozilla refuse to apply EABI patche Jun 11 08:44:30 s Jun 11 08:46:02 bkris the browser going to be webkit based or did htat get abandoned? Jun 11 08:46:23 xora damn mozilla foundation Jun 11 08:46:39 s/bkris/XorA/ Jun 11 08:46:39 ScaredyCat meant: XorA the browser going to be webkit based or did htat get abandoned? Jun 11 08:46:40 mbuf: please please make mozilla work :-D Jun 11 08:46:49 ScaredyCat: abandoned AFAIK Jun 11 08:46:58 ScaredyCat: epithany-webkit works well Jun 11 08:48:27 when i am looking at writing cross-platform applications, just wondering which to use (discussion not required in mailing list) Jun 11 08:48:47 mm... ok... is it in oe XorA Jun 11 08:48:59 ScaredyCat: yes, bitbake epiphany Jun 11 08:49:16 ahh ok, different spellings ... :P Jun 11 08:49:53 yeah, I cant spell epiphany Jun 11 08:50:10 there are screen shots of it on scap somewhere Jun 11 08:50:18 * ScaredyCat looks Jun 11 08:52:51 :( Jun 11 08:53:10 whats up? Jun 11 08:53:32 no pics on scap Jun 11 08:53:37 of epiphany Jun 11 08:53:45 must have expired :-( Jun 11 08:53:51 do images'time out' ? Jun 11 08:53:53 ahh ok Jun 11 08:54:41 ScaredyCat: that Beagleboard seems to be epiphany :-D Jun 11 08:55:16 oh, I was looking for it on a gta device Jun 11 08:55:46 there was some, but Ill bet they are on page 5 or 6 :-( Jun 11 09:02:30 gah... doesn't built ootb Jun 11 09:02:51 missing deps.. sigh.. Jun 11 09:44:18 much stupidity on the mailing list nowadays :s Jun 11 09:50:01 toer yeh i have lost several minutes of my life reading the iphone cost thread :) Jun 11 09:58:13 zedstar: drink beer and lose more in an enjoyable way Jun 11 09:59:47 make gives Error for Gtk based application Error "CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/libmokoui2 Jun 11 09:59:47 " Jun 11 09:59:50 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r02cd3d017698 10/packages/openmoko-projects/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [diversity] To change the applications's title name to Splinter. Jun 11 10:00:11 * XorA sends in the turtles to kill SPlinter Jun 11 10:00:39 ninja turtles? Jun 11 10:00:54 teenaged ones? Jun 11 10:01:04 possibly mutant Jun 11 10:01:04 CIA-44, any Idea am workign with new build Jun 11 10:01:21 Atul: CIA-44 is a bot Jun 11 10:01:51 ScaredyCat, I want ot say to CM mistake Jun 11 10:02:03 CM, any Idea am workign with new build Jun 11 10:03:14 xora: oh dont worry i drink plenty of beer :) Jun 11 10:04:30 * XorA gave up reading community list long long ago Jun 11 10:09:49 I read it to torment myself... Jun 11 10:10:17 * ScaredyCat giggles pointing at scap Jun 11 10:10:27 yeh....i get drawn into replying it is a some kind of perversion Jun 11 10:39:04 so ?272 to those of us in the UK https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko Jun 11 10:40:09 zedstar: or steal some from OM UK offices Jun 11 10:40:49 XorA there are UK offices?? Jun 11 10:40:59 zedstar: well my house :-D Jun 11 10:41:12 lol ok leave your window open Jun 11 10:41:42 Andy lives in the UK as well Jun 11 10:43:00 good we dont want the Germans taken over ;) Jun 11 10:49:44 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4484 10/developers/erin_yueh/ (. dummy): create my own directory and add one dummy file (Erin Yueh) Jun 11 10:51:42 YEY !!! SMT !!! Jun 11 10:51:43 finally Jun 11 10:52:01 what is ASU ? Jun 11 10:52:10 BBishop: look up Jun 11 10:52:21 I asked what it is not what it means. Jun 11 10:55:23 they are the same thing Jun 11 10:55:33 it is what it means Jun 11 10:56:10 but why "april" ?! Jun 11 10:56:18 its a long time away Jun 11 10:56:29 (except of couruse you don;t spell "broken for gta01" like that) ;P Jun 11 10:56:30 yeah .. we're in june ! Jun 11 10:57:24 basically it means the E/illume/qtopia interface on the GTA02 Jun 11 10:57:38 which "surprise surprise" isnt ready yet :-D Jun 11 10:59:14 heh Jun 11 10:59:32 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4485 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/ (14 files in 6 dirs): create pythonEFL-sudoku related files (Erin Yueh) Jun 11 11:03:16 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r00eb39b669a2 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [exposure] Bump up reversion of exposure to 30. Jun 11 11:04:29 anyone seen any fso commits lately? Jun 11 11:04:45 never mind Jun 11 11:14:17 gahh I keep missing bkruse Jun 11 11:34:05 I am curious about linux phones, which do run openmoko beside neo1973 ? Jun 11 11:34:27 freerunner Jun 11 11:35:28 heh Jun 11 11:35:42 raster: heyah, did those comments help at all? Jun 11 11:35:47 there were some unofficial porting projects to random platforms but *shrug* Jun 11 11:40:09 Zdravo polz_ Jun 11 11:41:29 wibbit: yes. Jun 11 11:41:39 wibbit: you guys are resolution sluts! :):):) Jun 11 11:41:40 raster: okie Jun 11 11:41:47 LOL Jun 11 11:42:04 duly noted Jun 11 11:42:18 also web browsing and terminals seem to be hyper important to u Jun 11 11:42:23 Though if it was a decision between smooth user interaction, and high res, I think I'd go for high res. Jun 11 11:42:23 and u have amazing eyesight Jun 11 11:42:25 ... Jun 11 11:42:25 :) Jun 11 11:43:00 Well, I don't think I'll ever be using the phone as a terminal, and I hope almost never working on the command line. Jun 11 11:43:20 i'm scared of making smaller thinner/slimmer phones Jun 11 11:43:34 afraid you might lose it? Jun 11 11:43:45 as we basically have nothing that we can get that is a smaller screen Jun 11 11:43:51 so it would allow for a smaller phone Jun 11 11:43:54 wthout going down res Jun 11 11:44:05 (only 1 screen i know iof and its unlikely we can get that for a long time) Jun 11 11:44:51 But as the screen shrinks and shrinks and shrinks, it reduces the validity of higher resolutions. Jun 11 11:45:05 yes Jun 11 11:45:16 i'm, even dubious of the validity of vga on the 2.8" wehave Jun 11 11:45:22 thats why i am amazed at the response Jun 11 11:45:41 but you are all resolution sluts! :) Jun 11 11:45:42 there are a lot of idiots replying but Jun 11 11:45:48 and some valid people as well Jun 11 11:46:03 I always find my self semi torn between wanting a reasonably small phone (to make calls, act as a pda for appointments etc), and a phone for web browsing or other apps. Jun 11 11:46:42 Well, honestly, I'd need to see it to really have an opinion on it, I'm not a UI developer, so have very little experience to compare against. I just know what I do/don't like :D Jun 11 11:47:00 sure Jun 11 11:47:04 that makes sense Jun 11 11:48:39 But I also understand that what I do/don't like, is based off of a closed platform, where I believe the developers have made UI choices which forces me to see massive icons. Jun 11 11:48:44 ugh, I'm rambling :) Jun 11 11:54:06 u dont need massive icons Jun 11 11:54:11 they just are not as high res Jun 11 11:54:12 :) Jun 11 11:59:18 * ScaredyCat has always held that the current screen is too small for the resolution Jun 11 11:59:55 things, might be different if it were a dual slider. Jun 11 12:02:42 sure Jun 11 12:02:47 a bigger swcrene same -res yes. Jun 11 12:02:55 but the res is very extreme for the size Jun 11 12:03:03 maybe people will see that once they have one Jun 11 12:03:59 yangvnc: hello. Jun 11 12:05:43 ScaredyCat: What do you mean by a "dual slider"? Jun 11 12:07:12 if you hold the device portrait and slide the bottom towards you you get a hardware number keypad, if you hold it landscape and slide the bottom towards you you get a hardware qwerty (or equiv) keyboard Jun 11 12:07:25 thats hot Jun 11 12:07:32 that would be hot Jun 11 12:08:08 what if you slide it diagonal? Jun 11 12:08:23 the smoke escapes Jun 11 12:08:43 and does it make a transformer transforming noise :-D Jun 11 12:08:44 ScaredyCat: Oooo, you can get that sort of keyboard?! I've seen one or the other, but not both. Jun 11 12:08:50 wondering how it would work Jun 11 12:09:07 it's the helio... Jun 11 12:09:15 I have to say, I DO like the way that Nokia E70 (and it's predecessor) does the whole keyboard stuff. Only problem is that the screen isn't as big. Jun 11 12:09:36 * XorA is waiting for HTC Kaiser to have full linux support, thats the ideal phone Jun 11 12:09:55 helio ocean Jun 11 12:10:08 looks perzackly like the 1973, only better Jun 11 12:10:32 XorA: Not such a fan of those phones Jun 11 12:10:33 would love to take a helio ocean appart to see how it works Jun 11 12:10:42 http://www.helio.com/page?p=devices_ocean_static Jun 11 12:10:48 XorA: ignoring the pre-installed os, I just find the hardware, a little bit sub optimal Jun 11 12:11:10 im curious to see what HTC release with Android on it Jun 11 12:13:48 fck android, it's 1 step from a locked device Jun 11 12:14:49 well yeh im curious to the hardware they will showcase it on i mean Jun 11 12:16:13 Well there is an android kernel for HTV Kaiser range :-) Jun 11 12:17:11 I hate you ScaredyCat, now I want the ocean Jun 11 12:17:24 I hate myself... Jun 11 12:17:40 I had hoped the gta03 would be something like that.... Jun 11 12:18:07 well me too i want a keyboard cos i wanna irc when communting etc and no i dont wanna look a knob and use a BT keyboard Jun 11 12:19:05 having the screen taken over by an on screen keyboard sux Jun 11 12:21:29 and it's only $149 Jun 11 12:21:36 zedstar: type morse on the AUX key Jun 11 12:21:55 * zedstar_ bites XorA Jun 11 12:23:39 it's not a gsm device though Jun 11 12:24:14 but that's the idea... Jun 11 12:24:21 What do you mean? Jun 11 12:24:29 and that 149 is most likely the subsidised sign your life away contract cost Jun 11 12:24:36 what do you mean, what do I mean? Jun 11 12:24:47 lets not start that price discussion on IRC as well lol Jun 11 12:24:53 You said the lack of GSM was the idea Jun 11 12:25:02 * XorA gets out the chainsaw Jun 11 12:25:03 149 + $50 online order rebate Jun 11 12:25:08 no no... Jun 11 12:25:19 it's not a gsm device. Jun 11 12:25:38 but the whole device + gsm would be ideal (for me) Jun 11 12:26:01 ie make a gsm verison Jun 11 12:27:33 boat or by plane? Jun 11 12:27:56 !logs Jun 11 12:27:58 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Jun 11 12:27:59 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Jun 11 12:28:00 Live-logs are available at Jun 11 12:28:01 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Jun 11 12:28:05 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Jun 11 12:31:56 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r1b2d242a0657 10/TODO: python-ophoned: add todo Jun 11 12:37:55 http://htcsource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=288&Itemid=1 Jun 11 12:38:03 now that looks like the ideal phone, once linux runs on it anyway Jun 11 12:43:32 the hw looks okay sure, but even if it ran linux, buying windows mobile isn't on my to-do list Jun 11 12:51:53 * zedstar_ emails mjr a MS WORD .docx document for a laugh Jun 11 12:56:36 45 quid for a nokia n770 sound ok ? Jun 11 12:59:45 45 sounds ok can still use them for quite a bit of stuff Jun 11 13:02:12 that's with some navigation software too Jun 11 13:26:53 I'm unhappy with my nokia9500 and realy don't want a M$ mobile. The freerunner would be a pretty good choice. But does the freerunner works out of the box? Jun 11 13:30:58 work is such a relative term Jun 11 13:32:24 does it work as a GSM phone? (e.g.: can you place phone calls, receive phone calls, send TXT msgs, receive TXT msgs?) Jun 11 13:32:33 Ok the basics should work phone call sms contacts. Jun 11 13:37:05 XorA: PREFERRED_PROVIDER ambiguity... opkg or opkg-nogpg, and qte-mt-static, qte, or qte-mt ? I think it will always pick the first one, but I'm not clear on whether the ordering is deterministic (and should we define a PREFERRED_PROVIDER for these?) Jun 11 13:37:38 mwester: we should Jun 11 13:38:05 Should I send an email to the distro devel list? Jun 11 13:38:51 mwester: well actually I have no idea which provider for qte we care about as we dont use it, but Im not seeing the opkg warning here, Ill double check I commited the fix Jun 11 13:39:07 Ok - this is on asu stable. Jun 11 13:54:46 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r0a8c982d0884 10/setup.py: python-ophoned: ship the modem abstractions Jun 11 14:25:17 XorA: any news on the bb postinstall issue? Jun 11 14:31:49 anyone looked at spinvox? Jun 11 14:41:11 wurp2: not had time to beat up buildhost yet Jun 11 14:41:23 wurp2: other stuff took longer than I expected today Jun 11 14:41:55 not tried spinvox looks good though....i have used yac which is handy when u want to give out a number to a potential nutter on the internet Jun 11 14:48:21 lol Jun 11 15:07:50 spyre, hi Jun 11 15:13:32 thos: hi Jun 11 15:14:36 spyre, hey Jun 11 15:14:46 spyre, can you tell me a little about gsmd2? Jun 11 15:15:01 spyre, such as how tested it is, and what client applications are avialble Jun 11 15:16:16 thos: its still in alpha, but works pretty well. Now that the fso api has changed a lot, our tests are a bit outdated Jun 11 15:17:40 thos: it comes with a simple python ui. The ui applications that use it propably wont be released Jun 11 15:18:46 thos: http://www.freesmartphone.org/mediawiki/index.php/Implementations/GSMD2 it's a bit outdated but contains a lot of information Jun 11 15:21:09 thos: hepaajan recently added fso muxer support to it aswell Jun 11 15:22:00 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r349061811f86 10/ophoned/ophoned: python-ophoned: use the correct module when installed Jun 11 15:35:48 spyre, cool Jun 11 15:36:23 XorA|gone: No problem; thanks much for the update. Jun 11 15:36:43 ScaredyCat: So, I'm finally on a ScaredyCat release. It looks really good! Jun 11 15:36:56 I need to read up on your bash script UI magic. Jun 11 15:37:04 hehhee Jun 11 15:37:16 it's all easy now zenity is on there... Jun 11 15:39:04 I knew it was a z word Jun 11 15:39:34 Unfortunately, I haven't yet gotten openmoko-keyboard on there since they whacked it from the repo Jun 11 15:40:03 I think I have an old copy of the opkg hanging out somewhere - hopefully I won't get killed with version incompatibilities Jun 11 15:40:47 there's matchbox kb in my repo Jun 11 15:41:34 ScaredyCat: Weird, after I did my update, I did opkg list | grep k.*b.*d and got nothing interesting :-( Jun 11 15:41:49 ok, so with alsa dmix we can play 3 concurrent mp3 streams on a FreeRunner and still have some CPU power left Jun 11 15:42:01 I double checked that your repo info was in /etc/opkg/ Jun 11 15:42:28 when did you do it wurp2? Jun 11 15:42:30 mickeyl: So what was it that pulseaudio gave us again? Jun 11 15:42:48 well Jun 11 15:42:49 sidplayer, sidplayer... weeeooo Jun 11 15:42:50 ScaredyCat: Last night, about 13 hours ago Jun 11 15:42:55 PA is so much more than just mixing Jun 11 15:43:03 but for now i can't afford its impact on performance Jun 11 15:43:06 do another update.... and search again :) Jun 11 15:43:18 i will reconsider when they release 0.9.11 with the new glitch free playback model Jun 11 15:43:30 ScaredyCat: Thanks, will do tonight. No inet access for the neo at work. Jun 11 15:43:32 for now it's dmix Jun 11 15:43:41 pulseaudio seems sort of like overkill on a phone or pda Jun 11 15:44:15 Glitch free playback is a nice thing to have Jun 11 15:44:18 in your audio engine Jun 11 15:45:16 kind of key... really Jun 11 15:45:49 mickeyl: Im surprised :-D Jun 11 15:46:32 me too Jun 11 15:46:43 mickeyl: I had an idea for GTA0X which you might want to put forward, how about connecting a PWM gpio to sound system, then you can play clicks and squaks with zero latency Jun 11 15:46:43 but i need all the performance i can get Jun 11 15:47:00 alsa/dmix isn't glitch free? Jun 11 15:47:03 XorA|gone: well, for 04 i want an additional piezo Jun 11 15:47:13 Sketch: it is, but introduces quite some latency Jun 11 15:47:22 is login disabled for everyone on sourceforge? Jun 11 15:47:28 mickeyl: there are spare inputs on the wm8753, so would be a quick hack and get quick sounds Jun 11 15:47:44 dmix is nice Jun 11 15:47:45 hi all this is sort of a dumb question...but would TuxOnIce patchsets work with the OM kernel? Jun 11 15:48:21 mickeyl: at least dmix latency is directly controlled by the buffer size :-) Jun 11 15:48:49 XorA|gone: hmm, sounds interesting (gpio) Jun 11 15:49:10 XorA|gone: could you propose that on the list? Jun 11 15:49:12 mickeyl: like the GSM already plays serial data on audio paths :-) Jun 11 15:49:21 righto Jun 11 15:49:23 ah Jun 11 15:49:41 mickeyl: which list do we use again? Jun 11 15:49:57 XorA|gone: this i would consider being appropriate on openmoko-devel Jun 11 15:50:04 there's no list for 03 IIRC Jun 11 15:50:10 and this can be safely public Jun 11 15:50:28 in fact, some people discuss strategic things on the public lists and I'm feeling pretty uneasy lately Jun 11 15:50:32 but hey... it's not my call Jun 11 15:50:34 *shrug* Jun 11 15:53:44 message is off Jun 11 15:54:05 thanks! Jun 11 15:54:07 mickeyl: BTW how fast to you envision switching OE to git? Jun 11 15:55:03 ooh, OE on git? cooool Jun 11 15:55:27 if we quickly agree on the modalities and if we get all ssh keys in time, i'd say we move monotone to read only first week of july Jun 11 15:55:55 have you got a tool to move over the history or is it a fresh start? Jun 11 15:56:05 robtaylor: its already in git Jun 11 15:56:05 moving history over Jun 11 15:56:13 mickeyl: cool Jun 11 15:56:13 robster: git.openembedded.net Jun 11 15:56:25 XorA|gone: t'other rob, but thanks :) Jun 11 15:56:36 robtaylor: there should only be one rob :-D Jun 11 15:56:42 * Robot101 disagrees Jun 11 15:56:52 that makes me very excited. I think i'll be pushing OE even harder now to some people :) Jun 11 15:57:09 XorA|gone: heh Jun 11 15:57:26 ya Jun 11 15:57:39 Ill have to sync OM using zeckes work this month then :-) Jun 11 15:58:10 XorA|gone: yeah. please be careful not to overwrite my efl changes, which obviously are more correct than zecke's :D Jun 11 15:58:31 mickeyl: thats why he works on a branch :-D Jun 11 15:59:38 parts are being planted on boards this week Jun 11 15:59:40 yay Jun 11 16:00:07 it was about time... Jun 11 16:01:05 yalla yalla I say Jun 11 16:01:21 :) Jun 11 16:01:27 spyre, are there any bitbake recipies available for it? Jun 11 16:03:06 thos: adding one atm. Jun 11 16:04:44 thos: is poky gonna be moving over to git too? Jun 11 16:05:02 robtaylor, no idea Jun 11 16:09:00 Grr, and my phone's got no phone now that I updated >:-( Jun 11 16:09:07 "Registering..." Jun 11 16:12:40 bwahaha, iphone: "prohibiting developers from creating apps "marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes." Jun 11 16:13:32 ? Jun 11 16:14:58 When is the most real date when we could buy a neo freerunner? Jun 11 16:16:25 June 20 + 3i, 2008 Jun 11 16:16:31 At the very earliest, perhaps a month. Jun 11 16:17:15 SpeedEvil: is that in the US or worldwide? Jun 11 16:17:42 You've got the run completing - maybe a week. Boxing up and packing - maybe a week. The shipping to the US - another week - customs - easily another week, inbound processing and shipment, ... Jun 11 16:18:43 doc|work: lol wut? Jun 11 16:19:15 doc|work: ah, i c, nm Jun 11 16:21:39 lol Jun 11 16:42:48 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r38de395e4c99 10/packages/ (76 files in 24 dirs): lots of recipes: bump PR to get postinsts back Jun 11 16:42:48 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r19209635d7b0 10/packages/xorg-lib/ (pixman_0.10.0.bb pixman_0.11.4.bb): pixman: add latest stable and unstable Jun 11 16:42:50 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rc5f5f2793181 10/packages/gcc/ (302 files in 7 dirs): gcc 4.3.0: replace with gcc 4.3.1 Jun 11 16:42:51 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rdb46c9352d20 10/packages/pulseaudio/ (pulseaudio-meta/.mtn2git_empty pulseaudio-meta_0.9.10.bb): add pulseaudio-meta, a meta package that starts and configures the pulseaudio system Jun 11 16:42:53 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rfa3ee9d4cefc 10/packages/gstreamer/gst-plugins-good_0.10.7.bb: gst-plugins-good 0.10.7 add missing dependency to esound Jun 11 16:42:56 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rea26f7280956 10/packages/images/fso-image.bb: fso-image: remove openmoko-sound-system2 in favour of pulseaudio-meta Jun 11 16:43:01 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rd4da4ffc2b16 10/packages/ (380 files in 32 dirs): merge of '81ef71fa69009396b145139571c2cbaa3855d705' Jun 11 16:43:04 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r25eaee3600de 10/packages/pulseaudio/ (5 files): pulse.inc: rename to pulseaudio.inc Jun 11 16:43:09 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r17c96b9228f0 10/packages/pulseaudio/ (pulseaudio-meta/asound.conf pulseaudio-meta_0.9.10.bb): pulseaudio-meta 0.9.10 improve alsa integration Jun 11 16:43:12 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r2019baa25345 10/packages/pulseaudio/pulseaudio-meta/ (pulseaudio session): pulseaudio-meta: add missing files (sorry) Jun 11 16:43:15 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * recedb51ef23c 10/packages/libmikmod/ (4 files in 2 dirs): libmikmod: update 3.1.11 and set DEFAULT_PREFERENCE for 3.2.0-beta2 to -1 Jun 11 16:43:20 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * rddadc11548ca 10/packages/netbase/netbase/mpc8313e-rdb/ (.mtn2git_empty interfaces): netbase: drop mpc8313e-rdb specific etc/network/interfaces Jun 11 16:43:23 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r6a2a31deb696 10/packages/python/python-flup_1.0.bb: python-flup_1.0.bb: add python module for WSGI servers Jun 11 16:43:26 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r53ad20e61c7a 10/packages/lighttpd/ (lighttpd/lighttpd lighttpd_1.4.18.bb): lighttpd: fix init script (restart did not work) Jun 11 16:43:31 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r247dadc54aaf 10/packages/alsa/ (alsa-plugins_1.0.14.bb alsa-plugins_1.0.15.bb): alsa-plugins 1.0.14 update to 1.0.15 Jun 11 16:43:34 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * reeecc4499bea 10/packages/alsa/ (alsa-state.bb alsa-state/asound.conf alsa-state/asoundrc): alsa-state: fix standard alsa dmix configuration, it now works out-of-the-box Jun 11 16:43:37 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r0663f07928da 10/packages/alsa/alsa-state.bb: alsa-state: install correct file Jun 11 16:43:42 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r91b5ad2ddfa2 10/classes/rootfs_ipk.bbclass: rootfs_ipk.bbclass: opkg nowadays needs its lib directory created before it can operate Jun 11 16:43:45 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r5be7dabb8695 10/packages/images/fso-image.bb: fso-image: yank pulseaudio and use alsa dmix for now Jun 11 16:43:48 openmoko: 03jluebbe 07org.openembedded.dev * rb6a2b07edd39 10/packages/freesmartphone/ (4 files): freesmartphone: start services after dbus Jun 11 16:43:53 openmoko: 03jluebbe 07org.openembedded.dev * r2ed5e3a44c84 10/packages/ (7 files in 5 dirs): merge of '6aa3a34371e0ba98066d355ab1bc9a3c72356bf0' Jun 11 16:43:56 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r9bf029f6dd0c 10/packages/ (5 files in 4 dirs): merge of '716838c61d439ea48ec596bb358e6fe8674c26fe' Jun 11 16:43:59 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r1f0787b33d1f 10/packages/lighttpd/ (lighttpd/mod_redirect.c.patch lighttpd_1.4.18.bb): lighttpd: backport support for url.redirect-code from 1.5 branch Jun 11 16:44:04 openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rdc03a099876f 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add gsmd2, a dbus-enabled gsm phone server Jun 11 16:44:07 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r08d1c9b232e3 10/ (11 files in 6 dirs): merge of '1881f1e08c19772afb57e141b8e9cfe8a3308a4a' Jun 11 16:44:10 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r2960cd33a73f 10/packages/lighttpd/ (lighttpd/mod_redirect.c.patch lighttpd_1.4.18.bb): merge of '305437fef3e07f06f422c525af6d258fe65bd133' Jun 11 16:44:17 openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r271d8cf5d40e 10/ (16 files in 10 dirs): merge of '162bf228da944fcdae3d12cc94a424a78acc3dd1' Jun 11 16:44:20 openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r9bfd80412512 10/conf/machine/neuros-osd2.conf: neuros osd2: correct kernel provider Jun 11 16:44:23 openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r5566b9d6fc74 10/conf/machine/neuros-osd2.conf: merge of 'cc5142241e1e0788b16bdb07718b289a105ae7ba' Jun 11 16:44:52 mickey_away: http://svn.digium.com/svn/repotools/commits_bot Jun 11 16:44:53 CIA sucks Jun 11 16:54:21 wow, my current asu.devel image doesn't fit in the nand from my gta01 :-( Jun 11 17:15:20 Ah, crikey. It looks as if sound is busted in the 20080605 ScaredyCat release Jun 11 17:15:38 0605? Jun 11 17:15:41 Or at least, it is after I opkg installed some standard python packages. Not sure if it was before. Jun 11 17:15:49 that's old, get the new one! Jun 11 17:15:55 That was the latest I saw Jun 11 17:16:15 * ScaredyCat points at today's image :D Jun 11 17:16:25 Well, that wasn't there 15 hours ago :-) Jun 11 17:16:33 ScaredyCat: I have some vauge recollection that you're Andy Green? Jun 11 17:16:48 broonie: then you are still drunk :P Jun 11 17:16:52 I am not. Jun 11 17:16:56 He's the other Andy Jun 11 17:17:06 Ah, jolly good. Jun 11 17:17:07 I'm the annoying one... :) Jun 11 17:17:15 * broonie wishes people would set their real names in their IRC clients :) Jun 11 17:17:25 So says "broonie" Jun 11 17:17:30 lol Jun 11 17:17:35 wurp2: /whois me Jun 11 17:17:39 realname!=nickname Jun 11 17:17:40 orly? Jun 11 17:17:49 I hadnt' heard that name before Jun 11 17:18:08 SpeedEvil: does for me :) Jun 11 17:38:30 Good morning everybody, I have written a small program that uses the XShape extension of X11. when I try to run it on the neo however, it doesn't work. Does the KDrive xserver not support the XShape extension or it this just a missiong ./configure option ? can anybody advice ? Thanks a lot. Jun 11 17:39:55 I doubt it supports it. Jun 11 17:40:11 The WM is designed for single windows too. Jun 11 17:40:21 It'll get confused with shaped windows at best. Jun 11 17:41:16 so it could also be the WM. Well i tried to avoid that by setting XWindowAttribute.redirecto_override to True, so the WM should leave the window alone. Jun 11 17:41:41 What ar eyou trying to do? Jun 11 17:41:45 What then happens is that the window is not drawn at all, however, it reacts to the mouse Jun 11 17:42:08 I want to show a shaped window that stays always on top Jun 11 17:42:15 and can react to touches Jun 11 17:42:18 Umm. Jun 11 17:42:22 should be simple :-) Jun 11 17:42:28 That's going to be stupidly annoying. Jun 11 17:42:41 its a small one Jun 11 17:42:55 dont worry... Jun 11 17:43:26 try running twm or something from your desktop to manage thge window and see what happens. Jun 11 17:43:56 hm, good idea, that way i can rule out the WM. thanks for the idea! Jun 11 17:45:34 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ASU_Feature_Plan is nice to see Jun 11 17:46:26 wurp2, indeed Jun 11 17:48:13 Even if it doesn't seem to include many end user apps, it's great to have some idea what ppl are working on, who's working on it, and rough status Jun 11 17:48:50 On a different topic... was there ever any discussion of using the aux and/or power button as modifiers for touch events? Jun 11 17:49:05 That seems much more powerful than just using them as event generators themselves Jun 11 17:49:22 It would allow e.g. the equivalent of right click, which could give pop-up menus Jun 11 17:51:38 wurp2: i like the idea, but where should this be done ? in libts ? Jun 11 17:54:26 err,m Jun 11 17:54:31 wep testing... Jun 11 17:54:43 this does have WPA - right? Jun 11 17:54:52 I thought it did Jun 11 17:54:56 * doc|work would hope so Jun 11 17:55:59 there's quite a few usability issues with asu and fingers.. but it flows well Jun 11 17:56:21 EHLO :) Jun 11 17:56:31 thseiler_: I'm not sure... you could do it now in a specific app by catching up & down events, and manually modifying Jun 11 17:56:55 thseiler_: But it seems that it would be better to have modifiers attached to the click event Jun 11 17:57:08 :o Jun 11 17:57:11 I broke it Jun 11 17:57:14 Hrm, my first statement there didn't really convey anything :-) Jun 11 17:57:16 but then you would require all applications to support this. what about legacy apps ? Jun 11 17:58:04 thseiler_: Yeah, the much better solution would be to translate clicks while the aux is down into right clicks. I dunno enough about X internals to know where would make sense to do this Jun 11 17:59:01 The point of my first statement was just to say that even if the idea doesn't get any traction in OM, it could still be valuable for app devs. I agree 100% it's far better to handle it in a standard way at a relatively low level. Jun 11 17:59:15 ScaredyCat: What did you do that for? Jun 11 17:59:40 ScaredyCat: You have a FR? Jun 11 17:59:51 I didn't mean to Jun 11 18:00:01 no I don;t have a freerunner Jun 11 18:00:03 wurp2: me neither, but i'm more scared of the x-server than the libts... Jun 11 18:01:30 wurp2: in my opinion we should translate ts-events at a low level to right clicks and then adapt neod to only show the menu upon release of AUX *if* no touchscreen events have happened while AUX was pressed. Jun 11 18:02:12 wurp2: this would give us the neod menu for screen-orientation just as it used to be. Jun 11 18:03:00 thseiler_: Agreed 100% Jun 11 18:03:16 ScaredyCat: You were talking about WEP support Jun 11 18:03:32 ScaredyCat: which sounds like FR to me Jun 11 18:03:46 * ScaredyCat reviews ASU at this point in time: It's a bit wank Jun 11 18:04:04 wurp2: no I was reading from that asu page you linked Jun 11 18:04:11 ScaredyCat: Is the aux button in your release supposed to always bring up the menu, no matter how short a time I had it up? Jun 11 18:04:15 ScaredyCat: ah Jun 11 18:04:32 it brings it up on release iirc Jun 11 18:04:34 ScaredyCat: 'cause it does always bring it up, for me, even on a quick click Jun 11 18:04:56 ScaredyCat: In the regular release a short click swaps between last app & Home, and a long click brings up menu Jun 11 18:05:19 lemmie reflash Jun 11 18:05:21 Which I personally prefer, but it's not *my* release Jun 11 18:05:25 that ASU sucks balls atm Jun 11 18:05:37 anyone had any luck with ASU on GTA01 yet ? Jun 11 18:05:39 2007.2 sucks balls atm too Jun 11 18:05:47 I'll bet it sucks more balls than ASU, and harder, too Jun 11 18:05:53 anyone on now got any idea on what the warranty will be in north america? Jun 11 18:06:01 ccfly: I think it's too big for flash Jun 11 18:06:03 wurp2: yeah, but 2007.2 is usable on 01, asu is not Jun 11 18:06:13 I this 2007.2 pays seome serious homage to ASU's balls Jun 11 18:06:16 ScaredyCat: 2007.2 isn't really usable right now Jun 11 18:06:27 I use it... daily Jun 11 18:06:34 that's why you get all those segfaults Jun 11 18:06:39 ScaredyCat: I did too Jun 11 18:06:46 it's perental control :> Jun 11 18:06:49 parental Jun 11 18:06:56 it only segfaults when I write code ccfly ;) Jun 11 18:06:59 ScaredyCat: Until I tried to opkg install a couple of things 2 days ago and it killed openmoko-today Jun 11 18:07:08 ScaredyCat: and apparently dbus Jun 11 18:07:25 ScaredyCat: One word re: segfault: python Jun 11 18:07:26 ;-) Jun 11 18:07:50 yeah, python is one giant segfault Jun 11 18:08:10 ok, reflashing Jun 11 18:08:11 isn't it a bit overkill for an embedded linux distro to outmatch some mini distrost for PCs out there ? Jun 11 18:08:34 i mean storage reqeuirements Jun 11 18:08:52 All your flash are belong to us Jun 11 18:09:31 anyhoo... I was just trying out asu .. Jun 11 18:09:35 on 01 Jun 11 18:09:46 :o Jun 11 18:09:47 there are some 'nice' things... Jun 11 18:10:20 but atm it's not worth flashing other than to have a 3 minute play Jun 11 18:10:31 nothing works Jun 11 18:10:48 so you get to play with the interface. Jun 11 18:11:00 i don't it segfaults Jun 11 18:11:06 but i really like the menu :> Jun 11 18:11:12 it's got tha sliding motion going on :> Jun 11 18:11:19 ccfly: Is it fast? Jun 11 18:11:24 yeah, except I can;t work it Jun 11 18:11:27 quite Jun 11 18:11:32 it bounces back again Jun 11 18:11:34 'cause even the regular scroll is stuttery on 2007.2 Jun 11 18:11:37 is there a web browser in ASU? Jun 11 18:11:46 next to 2007.2 scroll it's divine Jun 11 18:11:53 ccfly: Beautiful Jun 11 18:11:59 yes, scrolling works well Jun 11 18:12:00 I have no idea it segfauls as soon as I try to use it Jun 11 18:12:10 if you drop the frame rate to 15 Jun 11 18:12:14 sometime sooner :> Jun 11 18:12:17 medium speed Jun 11 18:12:36 Anyone know wtf the browser on 2007.2 doesn't support local files? Jun 11 18:12:43 the other problem is the stupid names for apps Jun 11 18:13:00 wurp2: tire file:// ? Jun 11 18:13:05 tried? Jun 11 18:13:07 ScaredyCat: I did Jun 11 18:13:16 It just spun Jun 11 18:13:21 that's silly... Jun 11 18:13:25 I agree Jun 11 18:13:39 did you see my pics on scap ... Jun 11 18:13:42 :P Jun 11 18:13:53 you == who? Jun 11 18:14:14 yoo oo to you too Jun 11 18:14:41 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/04bdbbf2b029561cfb4014d3e07da0e2.png Jun 11 18:14:51 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/d4f1c16266350b554d5c81f20dc63ef0.png Jun 11 18:15:23 what? Jun 11 18:16:27 wut Jun 11 18:16:37 i think is your usual expression Jun 11 18:17:15 OK, ScaredyCat, wtf is that? Jun 11 18:17:29 hehe Jun 11 18:17:33 I know what it looks like, but that doesn't seem likely? Jun 11 18:17:34 web app Jun 11 18:17:57 Playing music? Jun 11 18:18:04 I didn't know Browser supported that Jun 11 18:18:08 that looks like an ipod app Jun 11 18:18:11 \/me stabs Jun 11 18:18:13 awww Jun 11 18:18:29 http://www.automated.it/wctest/samples/music.html#_home Jun 11 18:18:34 wurp2: ^^ Jun 11 18:18:45 not actually playing... Jun 11 18:18:50 it's using iui Jun 11 18:19:30 ScaredyCat: intra-uterine insemination? Jun 11 18:19:48 just wanted to see if it worked with that browser... sort of does... Jun 11 18:19:51 errm no... Jun 11 18:20:08 iphone user interface? Jun 11 18:20:12 http://code.google.com/p/iui/ Jun 11 18:20:16 Yeah, that Jun 11 18:20:22 k Jun 11 18:20:29 It would surprise me if it didn't work on that Browser Jun 11 18:20:31 it's a bit too slow tbh Jun 11 18:20:34 Since all the smart stuff is on the server Jun 11 18:20:43 But it's nice to see that it looks good Jun 11 18:20:54 Or are you doing some js there? Jun 11 18:20:56 webkit browser would be beter Jun 11 18:20:59 it's js Jun 11 18:21:07 That does surprise me, then Jun 11 18:21:13 Everything js I've tried on Browser sucked Jun 11 18:22:40 My neo headphones died, but a little solder & epoxy put them right Jun 11 18:23:00 right .... if bkruse turns up give me a shout... Jun 11 18:23:15 keep missing em when I get called... Jun 11 18:23:24 * zash tries make qemu Jun 11 18:23:38 yay for, ehm, "fast internet" Jun 11 18:23:55 finternet Jun 11 18:31:16 What the situation with skype on openmoko? Jun 11 18:31:38 hahahah, BOOTING : 9% Jun 11 18:31:47 MetaMorfoziS: tell the skype-ppl to port it Jun 11 18:31:55 should be possible, there's a version of skype for maemo so they have an arm setup already done Jun 11 18:31:56 hmm, i found a faq link on openmoko.org, sorry for the dump q Jun 11 18:32:06 hm Jun 11 18:33:04 zash: 9% and 52% are pause points.. Jun 11 18:33:13 on first boot Jun 11 18:33:30 * ScaredyCat goes hunting for food Jun 11 18:33:36 ScaredyCat: !!!!! Jun 11 18:34:07 ScaredyCat: ic Jun 11 18:34:15 * zash eats food Jun 11 18:34:15 ScaredyCat: What's up buddy, major progress on the iax2 stuff! Jun 11 18:34:36 dagnabit... now I'll starve... Jun 11 18:34:51 working bkruse? Jun 11 18:34:53 got it Jun 11 18:35:01 bkruse: Hey, ScaredyCat was looking for you Jun 11 18:35:08 * ScaredyCat slaps wurp2 Jun 11 18:35:15 Just doing my bit to help out Jun 11 18:35:18 hehe Jun 11 18:35:36 ScaredyCat: Ya, though I switched to code.google.com because the svn on OM was giving me crap Jun 11 18:35:53 But it all builds from scratch with the OM toolchain, no prob! Jun 11 18:35:58 yeahhaaa!! Jun 11 18:36:02 (including depending libraries) Jun 11 18:36:43 right... Jun 11 18:36:47 excellent Jun 11 18:37:06 Hrm... The Asus 901 has a SIM card slot. :S Jun 11 18:37:18 what did you call it bkruse Jun 11 18:37:28 call it? Jun 11 18:37:32 oh mokoiax Jun 11 18:37:36 ta Jun 11 18:37:38 kdean06: hsdpa maybe? Jun 11 18:38:05 YEs Jun 11 18:38:06 ScaredyCat: check on the project, make sure you have the toolchain in /usr/local/openmoko (it checks for you) then just ./bkruseit.sh Jun 11 18:38:10 did you do a gui clinet? Jun 11 18:38:12 it's all in the readme Jun 11 18:38:15 wth Jun 11 18:38:20 oooh ya ya ay Jun 11 18:38:24 Suspending console(s) ? Jun 11 18:38:28 ScaredyCat: almost, actually, warek from openmoko is flying over here to meet me about that :X Jun 11 18:38:40 :D Jun 11 18:38:41 :D Jun 11 18:38:54 all the way from openmoko in tai to huntsville alabama to "talk" :D Jun 11 18:38:55 Sorry, misread. :P SIM slot for sure, they mention HDSPA expansion via the pci-e slot. Jun 11 18:39:27 some really really cool things going on ScaredyCat, like GPS coordinates over IAX2 to tell your friends where you are and stuff, crazy stuff Jun 11 18:39:41 ScaredyCat: The main thing I am doing is exposing the iax2 stuff over python Jun 11 18:39:58 holy crap that's good Jun 11 18:40:17 passing messages too ? Jun 11 18:40:42 iaxsms Jun 11 18:42:05 ScaredyCat: yes! Jun 11 18:42:51 a protocol in a protocol, for example, being able to see friends within 50 miles, or where friends are at all times, passing messages like IM, buddy lists, and the main thing of "switching for gprs/wifi/GSM seemlessly" Jun 11 18:43:23 iax2 ? Jun 11 18:43:30 ya Jun 11 18:43:39 this is really awesome Jun 11 18:44:03 ahh i see :> Jun 11 18:44:06 ScaredyCat: So after I told them all of that, they are flying someone over to talk for a few days and stuff Jun 11 18:44:23 lol - yes... they got the point then :) Jun 11 18:44:28 ScaredyCat: Marek, really cool guy, is in charge of the movement at OM now, I think things are really going to hook up Jun 11 18:44:34 exactly :) Jun 11 18:45:40 * ScaredyCat dances a happy dance Jun 11 18:45:51 * Basheri joins ScaredyCat Jun 11 18:45:54 hehe, it's going to be really cool Jun 11 18:45:57 I am super excited Jun 11 18:46:03 the python interfaces + dbus will be CRAZY Jun 11 18:46:09 bkruse: have him bring a bunch of phones to play with :p Jun 11 18:46:17 eg other apps can just hook into dbus messages for "new message" and stuff Jun 11 18:46:29 Qwell: He is totally coming to digium, let me see if I can get some freerunners Jun 11 18:46:44 I was kidding :D Jun 11 18:46:50 some more * :P Jun 11 18:46:50 that's cool though - when? Jun 11 18:47:02 Next monday Jun 11 18:47:03 wait Jun 11 18:47:10 this coming up monday, I think Jun 11 18:47:15 to thursday Jun 11 18:47:41 so by the time he leaves all code will be done... please... Jun 11 18:47:42 :P Jun 11 18:48:03 Hopefully! It is mainly a planning and development meeting, etc Jun 11 18:48:26 this is gonna be so good... Jun 11 18:48:35 * ScaredyCat starts grinning Jun 11 18:48:41 hehe Jun 11 18:49:14 It's going to be pretty crazy, and a new generation of crazy stuff, these guys really think outside the box Jun 11 18:49:16 bkruse: So you can switch between gsm and wifi w/in one phone call using asterisk somehow? Jun 11 18:49:20 ScaredyCat: IF you have any suggestions, let me know Jun 11 18:49:41 wurp2: That will be difficult, the main thing is have it seemlessly switch so that you can always receive/place calls. Jun 11 18:49:53 bkruse: OK, that I can definitely see Jun 11 18:50:02 wurp2: we MIGHT be able to do some magic for the call to be put on hold, then call over gprs, then answer Jun 11 18:50:02 I didn't see how you could do the other Jun 11 18:50:06 woah wurp2 that is a good idea Jun 11 18:50:18 * bkruse writes it on his things to talk about Jun 11 18:50:22 you think that's possible Qwell? Jun 11 18:50:24 heh, it wasn't an idea, it was an incredulous misunderstanding :-) Jun 11 18:50:33 Yes. Yes I do. Jun 11 18:50:33 I just want the integration - dial in / out from one dialer, preferred network (gsm / voip) etc.. I think we discussed those lat time Jun 11 18:50:35 last Jun 11 18:50:43 can the gta02 realy give 500mA when in hostmode? Jun 11 18:50:57 no, not really. it's pretty difficult to to automatic switchover like that Jun 11 18:51:05 you could hack it with a transfer or something, but.. Jun 11 18:51:18 there will be an interruption. Jun 11 18:51:28 you need the carrier to help if you want it seemless Jun 11 18:51:39 I would be worried about automatically placing calls via wifi Jun 11 18:51:48 some carriers DO support things like that though. tmobile for example Jun 11 18:51:53 Because I figure fairly often I'll walk out of wifi range during the call Jun 11 18:51:54 UMA? Jun 11 18:51:57 but this opens up a whole load of follow me type things Jun 11 18:52:04 it's certainly not easy Jun 11 18:52:11 Hrm... Jun 11 18:52:20 If it made it clear what the call was going over, and let me choose gsm if I liked, that would be super-keen Jun 11 18:52:26 Qwell: That would be super super crazy Jun 11 18:52:33 wurp2: that's the point... Jun 11 18:52:35 bkruse: have you not seen the tmobile thing? Jun 11 18:52:43 you set a preferred network.. (gsm or voip) Jun 11 18:52:57 ScaredyCat: I realize; I'm just pointing out that it shouldn't be totally transparent that I'm going over wifi Jun 11 18:53:13 ScaredyCat: my preference is probably more on a per call basis Jun 11 18:53:26 well, I guess it'd tell you it was dialing over voip ... Jun 11 18:53:26 ScaredyCat: If I'm not going anywhere, I wanna use wifi if available Jun 11 18:53:34 hotspot@home Jun 11 18:53:43 google that up Jun 11 18:53:55 but the idea is that you'd set it to one or the other and then it failsover to the other Jun 11 18:53:56 http://www.t-mobile.com/promotions/hotspotathomelearnmore.aspx Jun 11 18:54:11 yeah, femtocells Qwell? Jun 11 18:54:16 automatic switchover and such, but that's all implemented on the backend Jun 11 18:54:21 ScaredyCat: no, gsm>wifi Jun 11 18:54:32 woah Jun 11 18:54:35 <3 Qwell Jun 11 18:54:41 Qwell: dunno what happy land you live in :) Jun 11 18:54:44 it's awesome, but, I think you'll need support from the providers Jun 11 18:54:52 it's all UMA stuff Jun 11 18:54:56 brb food Jun 11 18:54:56 Yeah, and they have every incentive not to give it to you :-( Jun 11 18:55:40 wurp2: nah, tmobile is a big company, but not a devil like att, they might do it if they could launch their own branded freerunner, which would still be ideal Jun 11 18:55:45 in theory though, any provider that supports it, would support it the same way. they would follow the specs Jun 11 18:55:52 bkruse: that'd be a major win Jun 11 18:55:53 wurp2, some do. Not for free of course :] Jun 11 18:56:13 I was considering adding something like that in Asterisk, but you need access to a SIM card. On the openmoko...it might be possible/feasible Jun 11 18:56:13 also UMA isn't supported or at least documented by the GSM chip Jun 11 18:56:28 mjr: It's not a GSM thing. Jun 11 18:56:28 it's all backend and IP Jun 11 18:56:41 (afaik) Jun 11 18:57:00 Qwell, I wouldn't count on T-Mobile rebranding a Freerunner, though they're quite willing (and even excited) to provision it for any network services it's capable of. Jun 11 18:57:11 kdean06: it wouldn't need to be branded Jun 11 18:57:30 The techs told me that the network would allow me to do the GSM/Wifi handoff if the phone could support it. Jun 11 18:57:31 there are of course authentication things in place, but if they follow the spec, that's a non-issue Jun 11 18:57:40 Qwell, the handovers (and possibly provider auth stuff) needs co-operation from the chip Jun 11 18:58:07 T-mobile is a big supporter of Android, though, so I doubt they'd do much with Openmoko. Jun 11 18:58:16 bkruse: so has this become official digium work now then ? Jun 11 18:58:32 kdean06: ohrly Jun 11 18:59:08 kdean06: not a huge support, more or less want to see it do well, they are not contributing Jun 11 18:59:24 ScaredyCat: no no, not at all actually Jun 11 18:59:26 lol Jun 11 18:59:34 I try to make that clear in the README too Jun 11 19:01:28 though it is probably reversibly good for asterisk in a way. Jun 11 19:04:11 Qwell, and yeah you don't have (at least documented, as said) access to the sim Jun 11 19:04:31 Qwell, though I do seem to recall that the TI chip docs were leaked a while back so if you want to make sure ;) Jun 11 19:08:52 yep, leaked on cryptome Jun 11 19:09:17 if you ever plan on actually using it...be incredibly careful Jun 11 19:09:43 Qwell: i wish i had even 1/10th of the knowledge needed to actually use it :) Jun 11 19:11:29 bkruse, They're not? I was under the impression that they've been providing $$$ for it, and plan to be the first retailer to market with Android based, consumer ready devices. Jun 11 19:11:39 If that's changed, my apologies. Jun 11 19:11:55 kdean06: rly? Jun 11 19:11:57 * bkruse googles Jun 11 19:12:13 dang verizon snatched up another mobilelin based project too Jun 11 19:12:17 where is the OM backer! Jun 11 19:12:44 Taiwan. :P Jun 11 19:13:38 kdean06: hehe, I guess so! Jun 11 19:13:54 kdean06: You are right, wow. I have not been keeping up with android Jun 11 19:14:00 IMO, Openmoko's idea of being "portable" and "network neutral" are exactly why they won't get a major American backer. Jun 11 19:14:20 kdean06: OM should just start deving and convince an HTC device to go open hardware :X Jun 11 19:14:25 yeah, the US mobile business is extremely consumer-hostile Jun 11 19:14:35 kdean06: That and open. Android still isn't 100% open, either. Jun 11 19:15:43 in fact it's quite a bit less than that, unless they've actually freed stuff lately Jun 11 19:39:23 To build freerunner images, do I just need to edit MokoMakefile and chance om-gta01 to om-gta02? Jun 11 19:40:01 kdean06: I think it's in your build/conf/local.conf Jun 11 19:43:48 kdean06: Just edit build/conf/local.conf Jun 11 19:43:59 Thanks. Jun 11 19:45:20 Hello! Apparently the FreeRunner will get a hardware Graphics Accelerator chip.. but the wiki mentions a shared slow 7M/s bus... will that have a big performance impact? and will the FreeRunner support OpenGL ES with that chip? Jun 11 19:45:56 yes, and no Jun 11 19:46:33 yes it does have it, yes performance is not much to brag about since there is no acceleration available in drivers, and no, OpenGL will no be supported unless someone is given time and caffeine to do it Jun 11 19:46:43 movies will only play at 320x240 at a decent fps Jun 11 19:47:30 doc|work: even when support will come in drivers? Jun 11 19:47:41 profoX`: I'm far from an expert on this but I think so Jun 11 19:47:44 don't expect much even then Jun 11 19:47:57 I'm afraid glamo simply won't cut it Jun 11 19:48:12 too many limitations at VGa resolution Jun 11 19:48:17 profoX`: the system is only so fast, shares the bus with the media card, the accelerator just moves the processing off the cpu Jun 11 19:48:27 is even expected to be removed for gta03 Jun 11 19:48:30 raster has explained this in length over and over again Jun 11 19:48:33 hmm oh Jun 11 19:48:37 ok Jun 11 19:48:37 you can check the mailing list Jun 11 19:49:00 what res movies can an ipod touch play? Jun 11 19:49:07 still it won't be that bad Jun 11 19:49:10 * doc|work wouldn't expect much better from that Jun 11 19:49:25 that's right, 320x240 on a 2.8inch screen is still pretty good Jun 11 19:49:27 it just won't play movies very nicely or push many vertexes through it Jun 11 19:49:39 but is it possible to watch 320x240 movies in fullscreen Jun 11 19:49:41 ccfly: it will, they'll just have to be reencoded Jun 11 19:49:48 true Jun 11 19:50:05 Basheri: yes, check planet.openmoko.org, someone got a hardware based mplayer setup working over the weekend :) Jun 11 19:50:18 cool :) Jun 11 19:51:27 i actually read the post, but it seems that i missed that part (i was quite tired) Jun 11 19:52:29 :) Jun 11 20:25:32 bye Jun 11 20:36:43 hmm Jun 11 20:37:10 so.. with the openmoko project will i be able to freely design my own cellphone? Jun 11 20:37:22 Your own cellphone software, yes Jun 11 20:37:37 blah, i want to design my own hardware :) Jun 11 20:38:07 if your skilled you can probably do that too :P Jun 11 20:38:14 lammet: The choice is yours. If you have the abilities you're free to build a platform for Openmoko to run on, too Jun 11 20:38:25 it would be mega frikkin expensive Jun 11 20:38:26 lammet: you can do that too, the cad files are on the server, once you can fit the rest into your case. Jun 11 20:38:53 You can add i2c and usb devices to the OM hardware Jun 11 20:39:09 if you can figure out how to get it to fit in the phone, or you're willing to have phone warts :-) Jun 11 20:39:34 is it x or just wx that do not have a onclick event? Jun 11 20:40:04 with hard keys, trackball and everything? the whole touch-hyesteria drives me nuts :) Jun 11 20:40:38 lammet: Sure, just make it all drivable over usb :-) Jun 11 20:41:44 i pretty much want a phone that looks like the blackberry curve, but i want to run like openmoko or android Jun 11 20:52:04 lammet: I'm sure it's far less money & effort to port OM to the blackberry curve than build that form factor with internals that will run OM Jun 11 20:52:17 and the port of OM to the curve would probably not be at all easy :-) Jun 11 20:52:44 wurp2: drivers might be an issue Jun 11 20:55:34 wurp2: heh :) probably Jun 11 20:55:43 but i want better hardware :P Jun 11 20:59:05 doc|work: Yeah, and bootloading, and system initialization, and ... Jun 11 21:00:16 yep Jun 11 21:00:35 lammet: if you can get better hardware and specs, can you work with OM? :) Jun 11 21:00:51 we all want better hardware :) Jun 11 21:01:12 ^^^ Jun 11 21:01:15 I don't. (much Jun 11 21:01:40 SpeedEvil: you wouldn't like to be able to watch full size movies? or watch them off the media card? Jun 11 21:01:42 * mwester wonders about the need for better hardware when we still lack developers to make use of the hardware we have. Jun 11 21:01:44 full-res Jun 11 21:01:52 mwester: fair point Jun 11 21:01:58 well, i really like the design of the bb curve, but i dont like the os/hardware :) Jun 11 21:02:17 doc|work: I'd like SMS messages to arrive 99% (or better) of the time. Then I'll worry about movies! :) Jun 11 21:02:53 mwester: pffft, reliability is of minor importance ;) Jun 11 21:02:54 i think it has everything a good design should have, and i love the trackball Jun 11 21:03:13 If this IRC channel was a company, I'd draft the lot of you all -- those who could code would get assignments and would do that, those who couldn't code would be sent to do testing. Jun 11 21:04:00 I'll do some testing, send me a phone :) Jun 11 21:04:22 or you can wait, I'm willing to buy a phone, *then* help with testing :) Jun 11 21:04:38 I've been already doing a little marketing here, have ten orders lined up Jun 11 21:05:11 Yeah, that's the first problem. The ASU should never have been GTA02 only, that killed the biggest testing base OM had -- the entire community! Jun 11 21:05:17 heh Jun 11 21:05:50 I'm sure after the phones are sent out there'll be plenty of bug reports waiting for you, no shortage of testers :) Jun 11 21:06:27 Not quite. Jun 11 21:07:37 The problem is that there's a learning curve for testers. I suspect that that first month will be full of bug reports about basic issues -- whereas had the ASU image been designed to support the GTA01, the basic issues would be behind us already. Jun 11 21:08:08 fair enough Jun 11 21:09:01 Instead, ONCE AGAIN!, most of the community can do little but watch and wait for an image that can boot on the hardware they currently own, or wait for a phone to ship that will run the current image. It's a management "oversight" ( <== politically correct term) on OM's part. Jun 11 21:10:57 heh Jun 11 21:14:59 mwester: that's a bummer .. I have GTA01, but I haven't done anything with it for months Jun 11 21:16:25 oversight == fuckup Jun 11 21:16:27 can always use Qtopia :) Jun 11 21:16:44 vallor: Don't opkg install from the 2007.2 tree today :-) Jun 11 21:17:13 ljp: I use(d) my terminal all the time, but I guess tonight I'm putting Qtopia on my neo Jun 11 21:17:25 assuming ScaredyCat's new image doesn't fix all my issues Jun 11 21:17:28 There is a term app for Qtopia Jun 11 21:17:34 ljp: got a recent build? Jun 11 21:17:35 ljp: There is now? Jun 11 21:17:38 yay!!! Jun 11 21:17:46 wurp2: okay :) Jun 11 21:17:54 ljp: Is there python on qtopia? Jun 11 21:17:59 vallor: it's an oversight that will be rectified, but not as an official "product" of OM. Jun 11 21:18:10 bah! dont need no stinkin python nor X! :) Jun 11 21:18:11 (at least at this time, as I understand it) Jun 11 21:18:21 ljp: python is easy/fun to hack on Jun 11 21:18:32 mwester: get SpeedyCat to do one Jun 11 21:18:43 SpeedyCat? Jun 11 21:18:49 Did they make a baby? Jun 11 21:19:02 For that matter I could build it -- but I understand it's non-trivial. Jun 11 21:19:09 I also ended up with an iTouch -- haven't done anything with that yet, but they are "jailbreakable" and you can run sshd on them Jun 11 21:19:17 er, dropbear Jun 11 21:19:18 ScaredyCat that is :) Jun 11 21:19:37 some Cat that does openmoko image builds! :D Jun 11 21:19:39 wurp2, afaik pyqt support qtopia Jun 11 21:20:04 cb22[eee]: Cool, thanks for the info... dya know anything about how to install python + pkgs on Qtopia? Jun 11 21:20:24 nope, sorry :( Jun 11 21:21:14 mwester: I thought kdean06 had installed ASU on gta01 Jun 11 21:21:27 * vallor plugs qtopia into openmoko into android, and creates FrankenFone (!!!) Jun 11 21:21:30 j/k ;P Jun 11 21:21:32 I have as well. With the same results, it's badly broken. Jun 11 21:21:38 wurp2: you would have to use commandline opkg Jun 11 21:21:42 vallor: ASU is already qtopia on top of OM Jun 11 21:21:45 The ASU is broken. :) Jun 11 21:21:47 vallor: at least for now Jun 11 21:21:53 wurp2: oh! Jun 11 21:21:55 It's not "the ASU on the 1973". Just hte ASU. :P Jun 11 21:22:06 ASU is hardly Qtopia Jun 11 21:22:11 But it's broken differently on the 01 and 02 Jun 11 21:22:11 ljp: Oh, I didn't even remember for sure that Qtopia used opkg Jun 11 21:22:31 Qtopia package manager doesn't. Jun 11 21:23:03 wurp2, Sorry, I didn't see your point. :P Jun 11 21:23:04 someone decided to be original and come up woth qpk's Jun 11 21:23:13 ASU is a few Qtopia apps on some other stuff. :P Jun 11 21:23:49 ljp: is that originality, though? :D Jun 11 21:23:58 Does anyone know what the future holds for media playback on the ASU? Jun 11 21:24:03 i was being sarcastic Jun 11 21:24:10 Will the Qtopia media player be used, or a new one designed? Jun 11 21:24:24 Isn't there a roadmap somewhere? Jun 11 21:25:37 * mwester thinks roadmaps are very useful; they keep females occupied while the male is busy getting lost. Jun 11 21:25:55 does push email use more bandwidth than polling a server? Jun 11 21:30:41 don't think so. Jun 11 21:30:47 Not for very low poll rates Jun 11 21:31:18 the keepalives will - at some point - exceed the cost of polling as poll frequency drps Jun 11 21:34:32 weird, someone on the mailing list said that was part of the reason at&t *spits* charge more for business accounts Jun 11 21:56:32 WATHECK Jun 11 22:34:43 hmmmm Jun 11 22:34:45 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/06/11/openmoko-freerunner-gets-reviewed-early/#comments Jun 11 22:36:12 it was decided to have a cam in gta03, or? Jun 11 22:36:21 dunno Jun 11 22:36:30 I didn't think so but ... Jun 11 22:36:53 i think i read it somewhere in the community ml Jun 11 22:37:35 about as reliable at times as wikipedia :) Jun 11 22:37:48 :D Jun 11 22:46:39 * Jiten is having hard time deciding if that was praise or critique :P Jun 11 22:50:49 Jiten: probably best if I don't clarify either way :) Jun 11 22:53:07 Yes, wise choice :) Jun 11 23:02:36 The only "official" thing I heard about GTA03 was raster saying something about it being "Freerunner - Glamo" and Steve pondering over if it was gonna be an 03 release or a sub-release of the Freerunner (i.e. Openmoko Freerunner XRP) Jun 11 23:03:00 raster has also said other stuff Jun 11 23:03:09 namely different case, camera, no glamo Jun 11 23:03:11 I'm ready for a non Neo product. :P Jun 11 23:03:27 Ah, neat. Jun 11 23:03:34 I'm sometimes out of the loop. :P Jun 11 23:03:44 IIRC. Jun 11 23:03:50 I may have dreamt it. Jun 11 23:04:13 Annoyingly my logs went away as my ISP killed my shell account for 'abuse'. Jun 11 23:04:19 yes that has been said Jun 11 23:04:22 I'll just account it to "things change". :) I'll accept discussion of GTA03 when it's in my hand. ;P Jun 11 23:04:25 Which was using IRC, when it's not actually against the AUP. Jun 11 23:04:29 Till then, it's all speculation to me. Jun 11 23:05:02 SpeedEvil: 'abuse' Jun 11 23:05:02 * SpeedEvil is at the 'barely believes in GTA01' stage. Jun 11 23:05:03 Accept it as fact, that is. Jun 11 23:05:20 I believe in the 01 and 02. :P Jun 11 23:05:46 Crystal ball is still foggy on a few aspects of those things. :P Jun 11 23:07:46 Crystal ball is GTA09 Jun 11 23:08:35 I have one, due to the temporal module bug causing it to occasionally glitch 35 years into the past. Jun 11 23:08:50 hehe Jun 11 23:08:53 hah Jun 11 23:09:05 * BBishop breaks SpeedEvil's cball.. Jun 11 23:09:07 buy a new one. Jun 11 23:09:30 GTA09 will be running windows CE Jun 11 23:09:31 :-p Jun 11 23:09:40 CVirus, die ! Jun 11 23:09:46 lol Jun 11 23:10:19 that'd be like .. the end of the world as we know it. Jun 11 23:10:44 and win ce in 35 yrs will be in fact be linux, with a windows theme Jun 11 23:10:50 and noone will notice Jun 11 23:11:08 I can barely wait for windows 7 or however they called it .. Jun 11 23:11:18 "the first true modular operating system" Jun 11 23:11:27 wow Jun 11 23:11:27 =)) Jun 11 23:11:31 ehm, hurd? Jun 11 23:11:51 s/, /, gnu\// Jun 11 23:11:56 DNF ? Jun 11 23:12:14 DNF/hurd Jun 11 23:12:22 hehe Jun 11 23:13:11 heh, in motor racing, DNF = Did not finish :D Jun 11 23:22:46 lol, boot Jun 12 00:07:52 hi there ! what's new about the freerunner ? Jun 12 00:08:10 MOAR PR0N Jun 12 00:08:13 any release date ? Jun 12 00:08:16 manu_: /topic Jun 12 00:09:09 sorry i'm new in this chat... i really don't know how it works... Jun 12 00:16:09 manu__: read the topic ! Jun 12 00:27:33 * SpeedEvil wonders what the date was between GTA01 MP and first people getting theirs. Jun 12 00:27:40 It was about 6 weeks wasn't it? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 14 21:16:12 2008