**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 22 02:59:57 2008 Jun 22 03:56:40 are we talking this decade? Jun 22 03:56:48 okok Jun 22 03:57:11 its gonna be i hope Jun 22 03:58:27 i think the no camera is the best part sofar Jun 22 03:58:51 iid like to see it stay that way Jun 22 04:00:04 why? Jun 22 04:00:09 may needto implement a sister model Jun 22 04:00:23 for goverment people to carry Jun 22 04:00:32 no cam Jun 22 04:00:55 y that would really kick it off Jun 22 04:01:37 they have money to spend Jun 22 04:02:06 my sister wants one because of that feature Jun 22 04:03:23 y they may want a large # of them Jun 22 04:06:17 is there a way to utilize the screen as a capture device? Jun 22 04:06:34 that would be useful Jun 22 04:06:56 and space saving Jun 22 04:07:09 capturing what? Jun 22 04:07:17 as a camera Jun 22 04:08:02 screen as a camera?? Jun 22 04:11:07 a little further in the future maybe Jun 22 04:11:14 you got me lost there Jun 22 04:15:05 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/206084093/Tri_band_Touch_Screen_Bluetooth_Camera_Watch_Mobile.html Jun 22 04:15:21 thats a cool watch Jun 22 04:24:59 Cameras are as small as 6*6*4mm Jun 22 05:20:23 Cameras are quite small these days Jun 22 05:26:06 so in the usa which phone company should we use at&t verison sprint which is the one? Jun 22 05:26:20 My GSM provider is called Viaero Jun 22 05:26:21 :D Jun 22 05:26:29 or get a cheap prepaid one? Jun 22 05:27:52 v2goprepaid? Jun 22 05:28:13 basic universal service? Jun 22 05:28:59 o.o Jun 22 05:30:39 the gsm part is the phone only ,,is that correct? Jun 22 05:31:07 or ? Jun 22 05:31:40 it includes internet access and gps and gsm? Jun 22 05:32:16 just ask for gsm service i assume? Jun 22 05:32:54 im not too shure a sales rep can even spell gsm Jun 22 05:33:23 that's not very nice, the Sales rep at Viaero know tons Jun 22 05:33:29 ok Jun 22 05:33:31 lol Jun 22 06:44:29 was wondering if you guys know when the devkits will be for sale again Jun 22 07:41:17 hai Jun 22 11:01:11 Is there a problem with the mailing lists? Jun 22 11:01:18 Im just not getting any more mails Jun 22 11:01:24 like 40 mails in 3 days, i usually get like 2000 Jun 22 11:09:06 yeah seems very strange Jun 22 11:09:33 just one mail today Jun 22 11:10:22 i just sent a mail to the list 1 minute ago Jun 22 11:10:54 let's see when it hits our inboxes Jun 22 11:12:48 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * rd437d16e9d7b 10/framework/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Use timeout_add_seconds from gobject Jun 22 11:13:34 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: ping Jun 22 11:56:54 `pwgen`: heya, what's up Jun 22 11:57:05 <`pwgen`> ahh Jun 22 11:57:28 <`pwgen`> i am responding your mail , mompl please Jun 22 11:59:29 <`pwgen`> asound.conf vs asoundrc .. thats the question Jun 22 11:59:58 asoundrc does nothing for me, here, only asound.conf is evaluated Jun 22 12:00:23 <`pwgen`> why ist the naming in alsa-state between r16 and 18 changed ? Jun 22 12:02:17 well, because /etc/asoundrc does not seem to be evaluated by our libasound Jun 22 12:02:27 so i changed it to asound.conf Jun 22 12:02:29 and boom... it worked Jun 22 12:05:01 <`pwgen`> i had problems starting pulseaudio with a missing asoundrc it could not set the required sample speed. maybe i had to cleanup my build and do a fulle rebuild .. Jun 22 12:05:23 yeah, sometimes a full rebuild is necessary Jun 22 12:06:49 <`pwgen`> maybe my image was build with an older libasound. i straced it and tried to open the asoundrc, my sdcard installation had an working asoundrc Jun 22 12:07:07 just for those who find the stylet silly: iPhone is considered a sexist phone by women with long nails; because they cannot use their nails to click they would like to use a stylet Jun 22 12:07:53 :-D Jun 22 12:08:54 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: can you start the pulseaudio with module-alsa-sink without warning ? Jun 22 12:09:56 Nails work just fine - with one of the hard-surfaced screen protectors. Or a properly buffed edge of the nail. Jun 22 12:10:02 fso no longer ships pulseaudio Jun 22 12:10:18 but yes, last time i worked on meta-pulseaudio, I could start it Jun 22 12:10:36 the warning "is not designed to run as root" is nothing to worry about Jun 22 12:10:40 or which warning do you mean? Jun 22 12:11:11 * SpeedEvil giggles at root security warnings on a platform with a blank root password. Jun 22 12:11:32 <`pwgen`> no the not the warning i meant, its the thing about samplerate setting to 48k Jun 22 12:11:50 ah, no i did not see that, but then again, fso no longer uses pulseaudio Jun 22 12:12:04 odd 48k should be a valid frequncy Jun 22 12:12:09 that chip does 96k Jun 22 12:14:03 mickeyl: I meant to ask, how much work would it be to replace gsmd with gsmd2 in gtk+ stuff? Jun 22 12:14:21 * SpeedEvil smells a fork. Jun 22 12:14:30 SpeedEvil: fork? Jun 22 12:15:08 Can the FreeRunner suspend and resume properly on an incoming call now ? Jun 22 12:15:31 CVirus: getting very very close, see the kernel list Jun 22 12:15:39 CVirus: only a couple of resume niggles left Jun 22 12:15:53 how many hours can the battery last now ? Jun 22 12:16:01 XorA|gone: confident they are not hardware? Jun 22 12:16:12 SpeedEvil: yes, kernel oopses Jun 22 12:16:27 CVirus: it lasts at least 12 hours on battery with no suspend Jun 22 12:16:39 XorA|gone: rewriting the dbus interface from phonekit to gsmd2 Jun 22 12:16:41 wow Jun 22 12:16:42 XorA|gone: has current in suspend been measured? Jun 22 12:16:57 XorA|gone: that's with cpufreq? Jun 22 12:17:09 XorA|gone: with blanking the screen only ? Jun 22 12:17:10 mickeyl: currently gtk+ is the only way I can make phonecalls Jun 22 12:17:14 XorA|gone: or more simply - someone left it in suspend till it dies? Jun 22 12:17:14 CVirus: yes Jun 22 12:17:42 SpeedEvil: I just left a phone on my desk and forgot to turn it off, totally unscientific testing Jun 22 12:17:52 XorA|gone: use fso-image, it works rock solid Jun 22 12:18:06 we tested it for days here Jun 22 12:18:12 did not crash once Jun 22 12:18:15 mickeyl: you lack a button to accept phone call, and to hang up Jun 22 12:18:22 ? Jun 22 12:18:24 no Jun 22 12:18:30 XorA|gone: how long have you had one in suspend? Jun 22 12:18:39 an incoming call shows a dialog where you can reject or answer Jun 22 12:18:40 mickeyl: incoming phone call rings phone, no way to pickup appears Jun 22 12:18:48 XorA|gone: did you use the official iamges? Jun 22 12:18:53 SpeedEvil: zero time, it crashes on the stable kernel Jun 22 12:18:58 XorA|gone: ah Jun 22 12:19:04 mickeyl: there are official ones? I built from OE.dev Jun 22 12:19:05 XorA|gone: we are breaking it in-between milestones, please don't use self-compiled images Jun 22 12:19:10 *sigh* Jun 22 12:19:11 XorA|gone: how many hours do you personally expect the phone to last if suspend is used ? Jun 22 12:19:14 does no one read my mails? Jun 22 12:19:22 mickeyl: I havent seen any fso mails Jun 22 12:19:26 same Jun 22 12:19:27 i announced it on device-owners and openmoko-devel Jun 22 12:19:48 gold-images are at downloads.openmoko.org/framework Jun 22 12:20:03 maybe you announced on a day with 10,0000 suspend resume messages and I got bored of reading mail Jun 22 12:20:10 hardly Jun 22 12:20:18 device-owners is a low volume list Jun 22 12:20:25 * XorA|gone isnt on that one Jun 22 12:20:46 also http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-June/003126.html Jun 22 12:21:26 cool, I just missed it then Jun 22 12:22:02 qtopia helpfully will receive sms and do exactly nothing else Jun 22 12:22:09 :) Jun 22 12:22:14 i showed fso to wolfgang yesterday Jun 22 12:22:20 "that's the future" Jun 22 12:22:22 ;) Jun 22 12:22:33 at least the system level Jun 22 12:22:35 good, I was always against the ASU image Jun 22 12:22:37 not necessarily the ui Jun 22 12:24:08 * XorA|gone will take FSO milestone one to the local lug this month then Jun 22 12:24:38 ~fso Jun 22 12:24:51 brb Jun 22 12:25:54 * balrog-kun guesses fs in fso is for Free Smartphone Jun 22 12:27:20 it seems related to 'zhone' (zen phone?) Jun 22 12:27:21 ibot: fso is short for the freesmartphone.org, collaboration platform for open source and open discussion software projects working on interoperability and shared technology for Linux-based SmartPhones. freesmartphone.org honours and bases on specifications and software created by the freedesktop.org community. Jun 22 12:27:33 thanks mickeyl Jun 22 12:27:54 apt_: fso is short for the freesmartphone.org, collaboration platform for open source and open discussion software projects working on interoperability and shared technology for Linux-based SmartPhones. freesmartphone.org honours and bases on specifications and software created by the freedesktop.org community. Jun 22 12:28:22 but anyway, whats up with the mailing list? Im getting maybe 1 mail a day now, usually 500+ Jun 22 12:28:49 ~fso Jun 22 12:29:14 humm Jun 22 12:29:41 * cyrilRomain hopes too much images will not spread out developers collaboration, at least core devs Jun 22 12:31:10 cyrilRomain: one of them will finally get suspend/resume and phone calls working, and the others will die. Jun 22 12:33:04 Hy guys. Any way of reserving a Freerunner or getting expedited shipping? I've been holding on to my aging phone (Nokia 6340i ... circa 2003) since I became aware of the Openmoko project. Yesterday I got mugged and they took my phone. I really don't want to get a new phone before I can get a Freerunner. Jun 22 12:33:35 MadTBone: Sorry to hear Jun 22 12:34:05 MadTBone: The estimated time line is on the community update page (see topic) Jun 22 12:34:15 abraxa_: thanks. I'm pretty much ok. just a black eye and swolen jaw. Jun 22 12:35:22 <`pwgen`> how do i avtivate the vibrator when useing the fso image ? Jun 22 12:36:15 abraxa_: thanks. July 4th....Realistic date? It's still a way off... I may have to opt for a stop gap cheap phone Jun 22 12:37:18 hmm, are there something like small usb sticks with an arm and some flash that you can program to do what you want? Jun 22 12:37:35 preferrably ones that could handle a small linux install Jun 22 12:37:41 MadTBone: you'll want a real phone anyway, while the software for FreeRunner stabilises. Jun 22 12:37:59 mjr: Maybe one of the gumstix is what you want? Jun 22 12:38:18 also, what's the word on 850MHz operation? I know they won't be sold w/ that capability out of the box. But is there any documentation on modding for 850MHz? Jun 22 12:38:33 MadTBone: two models - one 850, one 900. Jun 22 12:38:44 MadTBone, both 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 models will be sold Jun 22 12:39:32 mjr: http://www.tincantools.com/ Jun 22 12:39:39 mjr: nothing especially cheaper Jun 22 12:39:41 rwhitby & mjr : ahh...so it's officially shipping to US with 850MHz ready to go? That's great news! Jun 22 12:40:25 two tri-band models. no good for someone who travels between US and EU and AU. Jun 22 12:41:16 rwhitby: no, but perfect for someone who doesn't. What was the hangup with quad band operation? Jun 22 12:41:27 It's basically more complex. Jun 22 12:41:40 And 02 had a copy of 01 hardware, which was triband Jun 22 12:41:46 the board wasn't designed for it, and they found out too late due to some weird communications hangup Jun 22 12:41:57 hopefully the gta03 will be quad for travellers... Jun 22 12:42:17 Basically - nobody in the core hardware dev team had 850MHz where they lived. Jun 22 12:42:22 SpeedEvil, thanks, the Nail Kit seems pretty perfect Jun 22 12:42:44 mjr: wander over to #edev, and ask prpplaque if you have any questions. Jun 22 12:43:07 You can basically make a OM compatible phone using the hammer, plus GSM and other modules. Jun 22 12:43:41 (more expensive than FR though prolly Jun 22 12:46:32 the hammer? Jun 22 12:47:04 small ARM CPU based module from tincantools.com Jun 22 12:47:21 40 pin DIP Jun 22 12:48:03 SpeedEvil, we'll keep in mind; it's potentially for the wife, actually, we got to wondering about prototyping some identity usb sticks and stuff... Jun 22 12:48:23 (I love my wife) Jun 22 12:48:36 identity? Jun 22 12:49:39 all that challenge response rsa card stuff, but a bit more complex capabilities than what's generally available now... Jun 22 12:49:53 Well - that's probably dramatic overkill. Jun 22 12:49:58 probably is Jun 22 12:50:28 in fact most certainly is :] Jun 22 12:51:36 though actually the gta01 might serve well for a first prototype, and that's even more overkill but at least prebought ;P Jun 22 12:52:03 What are you wanting to do with it? Jun 22 12:52:22 Basically a key? Jun 22 12:53:37 leeloo multipass Jun 22 12:54:33 something along the lines of hierarchical separate keys for separate uses, but connectable if you have a central key etc... Jun 22 12:54:50 I'm not really sure what all she'd like there Jun 22 12:55:36 which is why I asked for a generic programmable computer for prototyping Jun 22 12:56:28 !fso Jun 22 12:59:45 mjr: there isn't really a generic linux computer that's a similar size and cheaper. Jun 22 13:00:40 yeah well, the bill would probably go to the uni, she's a researcher there.. Jun 22 13:00:55 and I can imagine such sticks having other uses there as well Jun 22 13:01:24 Oh they do. Jun 22 13:01:35 I'm contemplating putting one in a UAV. Jun 22 13:02:44 yeah that uav Jun 22 13:07:13 what is fso for? Jun 22 13:11:46 mjr: also - look at http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton - for more basic signle function stuff. Look a the SHA1 buttons Jun 22 13:12:32 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r56a1df93696d 10/framework/frameworkd: allow uninstalled startup Jun 22 13:12:33 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rdec11adabcc7 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): register one busname for every subsystem, fail gracefully, if one module raises an exception during factory() Jun 22 13:13:58 SpeedEvil, ack, thanks, things like that may come in handy as well even if they don't hack it for what she's in mind now Jun 22 13:32:21 i want my fr. Jun 22 13:32:26 and i want it now! :-D Jun 22 13:42:52 probably a question that has been asked many times before, but any idea when the freerunner will be released? Jun 22 13:43:56 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: pyalsa has a fine API to control the 8753 mixer .. Jun 22 13:46:14 pjj_: Check topic please Jun 22 13:47:04 `pwgen`: yeah. unfortunately they don't have PCM control yet covered, however python-alsaaudio has PCM, however slightly less good mixing :)) Jun 22 13:47:45 August ?! Jun 22 13:47:58 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: i try to build an pyalsa package .. missing in OE Jun 22 13:49:16 `pwgen`: check again Jun 22 13:49:19 both are there Jun 22 13:49:22 pyalsa and pyalsaaudio Jun 22 13:49:33 abraxa_, missed the wiki, thx Jun 22 13:49:35 <`pwgen`> grmpf .. Jun 22 14:00:02 <`pwgen`> mickey: i dont have python-pyalsa in my branch .. what did i wrong ? Jun 22 14:00:22 <`pwgen`> s/mickey/mickeyl/ Jun 22 14:00:22 `pwgen` meant: mickeyl: i dont have python-pyalsa in my branch .. what did i wrong ? Jun 22 14:03:27 hmm let me check Jun 22 14:03:35 there's always the possibility that i have uncommited changes Jun 22 14:04:32 no, it's online Jun 22 14:04:36 perhaps you need to update Jun 22 14:04:38 http://git.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=blob;f=packages/python/python-pyalsa_1.0.16.bb;h=f98e144c751e33bfbc6d1ab610854f66cbd0babb;hb=HEAD Jun 22 14:04:47 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: i have found the commit at http://amethyst.openembedded.net/oe/viewmtn , bit its not in my openembedded tree Jun 22 14:04:57 mtn pull && mtn update Jun 22 14:05:09 <`pwgen`> sigh ... Jun 22 14:05:09 perhaps you forgot to update. pull does not alter your WORKDIR Jun 22 14:05:22 <`pwgen`> i used moko makefile .. Jun 22 14:08:47 <`pwgen`> i started a new clean build .. with maybe an outdated openembedded try ,, how ueseles .. sigh Jun 22 14:09:01 <`pwgen`> s/try/tree/ Jun 22 14:09:02 `pwgen` meant: i started a new clean build .. with maybe an outdated openembedded tree ,, how ueseles .. sigh Jun 22 14:13:31 ah, sorry Jun 22 14:13:34 no idea bout mokomakefile Jun 22 14:14:00 if you're seriously into customizing your distro you might get started with OE direct Jun 22 14:16:49 <`pwgen`> sure . lets go the old way .. and see what happen after some 115k of xencpusecs... Jun 22 14:23:17 ok lets doit Jun 22 14:26:22 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: cooler ringtone on the fso-image Jun 22 14:40:40 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r49a23245e775 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get qLog changes and be able to set the time Jun 22 14:40:41 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r73e5b6fc6cb8 10/packages/dbus/ (dbus-1.0.3/fedora-compile-fix.patch dbus-native_1.0.3.bb): Compile with recent glibc,gcc,headers (e.g. fedora 9) Add a patch to dbus to properly compile on fedora 9. Jun 22 14:40:41 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rd491b233e7c4 10/packages/ipkg-utils/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Jun 22 14:40:42 openmoko: Make it work on fedora 9. "control.tar.gz" got listed as "`control.tar.gz" The Jun 22 14:40:44 openmoko: root cause is somewhere else in the parser. So this is a workaround that will Jun 22 14:40:46 openmoko: help to find the right file. opkg on the device should use the proper ar Jun 22 14:40:48 openmoko: executable and that should be able to extract the right files. Jun 22 14:57:18 * mwester notices that zecke has been busy with making ASU build on Fedora 9 as well. Jun 22 14:58:45 :( I probably should have been a bit more proactive, and sent those two fixes to the mailing list before zecke had to re-engineer them himself... Jun 22 14:58:46 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel * r317d58d95cee 10/src/zhone: zhone: Update battery status as soon as the DBus APIs are initialized Jun 22 15:27:04 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r656e7465c976 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: efl update to make sure illume updates work Jun 22 15:27:04 openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb2fbfa3560af 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: illume update - new hold to shutdown config and using e features as well as Jun 22 15:27:06 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rfc26e8f804c3 10/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive-glamo_1.3.0.0+git.bb: [glamo] Update the origin of glamo, now hosted on git.openmoko.org Jun 22 15:27:07 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r01b63b8aeff8 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [opkg] Bump up the reversion of opkg, opkg-native, opkg-sdk to 4491 Jun 22 15:27:09 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r8a4448bf9d16 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get qLog changes and be able to set the time Jun 22 15:27:12 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r18b471c18251 10/packages/dbus/ (dbus-1.0.3/fedora-compile-fix.patch dbus-native_1.0.3.bb): Compile with recent glibc,gcc,headers (e.g. fedora 9) Add a patch to dbus to properly compile on fedora 9. Jun 22 15:27:16 openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r70d2e43e4bc4 10/packages/ipkg-utils/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Jun 22 15:27:19 openmoko: Make it work on fedora 9. "control.tar.gz" got listed as "`control.tar.gz" The Jun 22 15:27:21 openmoko: root cause is somewhere else in the parser. So this is a workaround that will Jun 22 15:27:48 openmoko: help to find the right file. opkg on the device should use the proper ar Jun 22 15:27:48 openmoko: executable and that should be able to extract the right files. Jun 22 15:31:30 hello Jun 22 15:32:32 is openmoko working only on neo1973 and neo frerunner hardware? Jun 22 15:34:22 elfo: In the beginning they also worked on the Dash navi but now they're only working on the Freerunner successor from what I can tell Jun 22 15:34:52 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rcdd1a0b56e82 10/odeviced/etc/init.d/odeviced: add runlevel script Jun 22 15:36:05 cool... i think i will test a little in emulation and eventually buy neo freerunner as soon as it is out / i decided it's worthy :) Jun 22 15:36:37 how well can freerunner hardware be emulated? Jun 22 15:36:43 i mean, is it all run inside Qemu? Jun 22 15:36:57 i thought Qemu was only CPU.. but freerunner has so much more hw Jun 22 15:37:11 freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r48a7e74d74b0 10/odeviced/Makefile.am: add etc/init.d/ to Makefile.am Jun 22 15:37:17 didn't understood very well that... but i'm getting the sources so i will test out Jun 22 15:38:14 Blastur, afaik, OM has a separate branch for qemu Jun 22 15:38:34 I think that mokomakefile gets a fork of qemu with additional hw included Jun 22 15:38:44 ^^ Jun 22 15:39:02 is there an interface for Qemu to add new hardware, or do you have to actually go in and heavily modify qemu? Jun 22 15:39:10 Blastur, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Neo_FreeRunner_emulation Jun 22 15:47:15 quite big the sources.... 22% 30Mb (for openembedded) Jun 22 15:47:29 i should have downloaded it from school eheheh Jun 22 15:58:50 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r079efd7fd045 10/packages/openmoko-projects/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [diversity] Diversity team create a branch for splinter. Jun 22 15:58:51 openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4a0864362fb5 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [diversity] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 433 Jun 22 16:23:57 is there a library call that an application to use to become fullscreen? Jun 22 16:32:30 mickeyl: btw let me know once fso otapi has had a lot of big changes or has been stable for a while and I'll update gsmd2 Jun 22 16:33:42 spyre: will do for sure. i'll send mails for everything non-trivial to smartphones-standards Jun 22 16:37:40 mickeyl: great :) I want to minimize the work on keeping up to date with fso otapi Jun 22 16:37:49 understood Jun 22 16:38:13 ..when working on my spare time Jun 22 16:39:37 is there any sort of real keyboard in the april images? Jun 22 16:39:46 yes Jun 22 16:40:09 how do you start it? Jun 22 16:41:54 should start automatically Jun 22 16:42:04 otherwise click on the qwerty bit Jun 22 16:42:25 anyway I iss off Jun 22 16:42:33 XorA|gone: i get a keyboard starting up but its only a multi-touch Jun 22 16:42:52 with small letters caps and numbers on a 4x3 Jun 22 16:43:16 with backspace a forward arrow and a enter/equal etc Jun 22 16:44:23 hello Jun 22 16:44:55 how do you start the console on the emulattor? Jun 22 16:46:24 *emulator Jun 22 16:58:31 was wondering if you guys know when the devkits will be for sale again Jun 22 16:58:56 admiral0: + (bottom middle) > Applications > Terminal Jun 22 17:03:21 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * ra7d4eea2248b 10/framework/controller.py: Allow overriding config options form the commandline Jun 22 17:03:21 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r7415ad75b818 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Use the config file to select the modemtype Jun 22 17:03:37 shoragan: yay! Jun 22 17:08:22 thanks Jun 22 17:13:24 no + on the bottom middle Jun 22 17:13:51 i've got enlightment Jun 22 17:17:56 how do i get the "old" matchbox UI on the emulator Jun 22 17:17:58 ? Jun 22 18:21:25 ?can it be that parts of Angstrom server were down yesterday Jun 22 19:28:15 mickey|dinner: What distro do I select to build fso? (I've found the sane srcrevs stuff for fso, but no distro conf files are obvious to me) Jun 22 19:30:51 do you need the debug board to develop apps on the freerunner? Jun 22 19:31:03 kelvie: nope Jun 22 19:31:18 doc|home: what exactly is it used for then? Jun 22 19:31:20 on the FR there's very little you need it for Jun 22 19:31:23 running a debugger? Jun 22 19:31:24 ah Jun 22 19:31:42 and also, is a lot of the software qt based now? Jun 22 19:31:43 GTA01, a bit more, namely reflashing if you brick your device Jun 22 19:31:46 kelvie: much lower level stuff, I think it's for if you brick your phone Jun 22 19:31:50 ah Jun 22 19:32:07 the FreeRunner OTOH cannot be bricked (if you don't have the debug board, in which case you can also unbrick ;) Jun 22 19:32:08 I've read some news articles and blog posts about switching over to Qt for a lot of things, but nothing official Jun 22 19:32:16 hehe good to know Jun 22 19:32:49 yes, apparently at least for the time being (nobody knows what time being) Qtopia stuff will be used for the phone side Jun 22 19:33:06 ah cool Jun 22 19:33:15 but on top of X, so it's not as restrictive as Qtopia normally is Jun 22 19:34:15 there is some integration issues with the qtopia stack, mostly the long-term plan is to either work qtopia so that it'll integrate better with other stuff or replace it over time with other stuff... Jun 22 19:34:27 the vids I've seen of the freerunner on youtube has the same software as what is going to be shipped? (webbrowser etc) Jun 22 19:34:42 or that's the picture I've gotten from the outside here Jun 22 19:34:57 interesting Jun 22 19:35:12 isn't there a lot of existing gtk+ code? Jun 22 19:35:17 is that all going to get re-written? Jun 22 19:35:28 yes there is; it still runs. Jun 22 19:35:47 OM are tending towards EFL these days for in-house code too... Jun 22 19:36:03 so it's a hopefully happy mish-mash for now with its boons and banes Jun 22 19:36:47 anyway most of the gtk stuff was phone stuff anyway for which replacements are readily available on the qt side, once they get fixed... Jun 22 19:41:52 so both libraries are installed and loaded into memory on the phone? Jun 22 19:51:24 yeah :/ Jun 22 20:58:04 hmmm, trying to get qemu to run here Jun 22 20:58:10 its horribly slow it seems Jun 22 21:00:22 it's slow for sure Jun 22 21:00:35 no kqemu? Jun 22 21:00:57 that's only for x86 on x86 Jun 22 21:01:04 yeah Jun 22 21:01:06 thought so Jun 22 21:01:10 mine said "yes" for kqemu when configuring Jun 22 21:01:31 hmmm...the menu is off screen Jun 22 21:02:36 zlfita: really? Jun 22 21:03:00 zlfita: did it build it? and it loaded? Jun 22 21:04:11 this is strange...its liek its all 8 bit display Jun 22 21:04:14 pfft, don't read too much into it Jun 22 21:04:51 it's just available for building a x86/x86 qemu binary Jun 22 21:05:02 Assissin does not startup Jun 22 21:05:19 I get some kinda of Application executing screen Jun 22 21:05:25 but its black inside Jun 22 21:06:14 sweet!! mine hunt works :) Jun 22 21:06:50 did you manage to get a network connetion with your emulated 1973? Jun 22 21:06:56 not yet Jun 22 21:07:08 I've been trying to do qemu for last day Jun 22 21:07:12 this is my first foray Jun 22 21:07:22 is assassin a terminal? Jun 22 21:07:34 wiki tells us to type some stuff to console but there is no console we can type Jun 22 21:08:03 how do I actually close an application Jun 22 21:08:10 the only console is giving lots of verbose output Jun 22 21:08:15 dunno Jun 22 21:08:19 hey seem to stay in the background Jun 22 21:08:23 i just switch between them Jun 22 21:08:35 short press of the power button; dunno what works for that in qemu... Jun 22 21:08:51 space and enter Jun 22 21:08:56 neither works Jun 22 21:09:24 or has that changed since om2... Jun 22 21:09:30 that's because after it boots, it mounts your real keyboard as a virtual USB device to the virtual ceel phone Jun 22 21:09:38 om2 Jun 22 21:09:47 so, your space bar becomes a real space bar Jun 22 21:10:06 and i have no idea what happens to the power or aux buttons Jun 22 21:10:14 thats sad Jun 22 21:11:37 zlfita: have you any tips for qemu stuff? Jun 22 21:11:48 it's nice you can directly type from your keyboard but there is no way to wake it up when the device suspends Jun 22 21:12:00 yeah, I found that out Jun 22 21:12:09 goodwill: sorry, i am a n00b myself Jun 22 21:12:18 I really surprized assasin does not work Jun 22 21:12:27 I mean what am I supposed to without a shell Jun 22 21:12:31 I am not an animal ;) Jun 22 21:12:39 my assasin works but it's useless due to lack of net connection Jun 22 21:14:00 and i cannot set up a network because i have no shell Jun 22 21:14:01 I am hoping it will all work in GTA2 Jun 22 21:14:17 and it seems i cannot get a shell without a connection Jun 22 21:14:21 and I suspect it will be faster too Jun 22 21:14:21 me too Jun 22 21:14:40 though we need 2 more people for a 10 pack Jun 22 21:15:00 i'm also hoping to buy a freerunner when it;s out Jun 22 21:15:09 where are you? Jun 22 21:15:15 Los Angeles Jun 22 21:16:44 I can wait to show GPS on FreeRunner to my iPhone friends Jun 22 21:16:54 iphone sux Jun 22 21:16:55 so they would cry a little ;) Jun 22 21:17:15 yeah, no way I am gettign that Jun 22 21:17:23 its even worse in US...contract crap Jun 22 21:18:06 i'm gonna buy the freerunner when it's out Jun 22 21:18:08 Can't get an iphone without a contract now. Jun 22 21:18:10 a frien of mine bought one from UK with some stupid lock Jun 22 21:18:20 Apart from some odd third-world countries :) Jun 22 21:18:24 and had to crack to use it here in The Netherlands Jun 22 21:18:50 which reminds me...does anyone know why does Neo have a hoop? Jun 22 21:19:00 what was the thought patter behind tha Jun 22 21:19:01 t Jun 22 21:19:10 seems liek waste of valuable space Jun 22 21:19:45 anti-mugging device Jun 22 21:20:05 It's to put the lanyard through. Jun 22 21:20:07 sorry, what is a hoop? Jun 22 21:20:08 attach a lanyard, and swing it around your head as necessary Jun 22 21:20:10 You use it like a bola. Jun 22 21:20:43 zlfita: its that hole in the neo Jun 22 21:21:22 It's been noted that the semi-circular ends and the hole are poor design features in terms of efficiency of space. Jun 22 21:21:32 perhaps somebody thought i would look cool Jun 22 21:22:57 grr, the topic makes me aggressiv Jun 22 21:23:02 from year to year -_- Jun 22 21:23:42 any thoughts on the gphone/android? Jun 22 21:24:03 that whole Apache license bugs me a bit Jun 22 21:25:54 I fully expect companies not to share code Jun 22 21:26:18 that thing is a bit strange Jun 22 21:26:35 first of all, android is just a software platform, right? Jun 22 21:26:39 right Jun 22 21:27:09 I think it's not very interesting, though one will probably "have" to support it... Jun 22 21:27:23 ? Jun 22 21:27:42 althoug the idea of an "open handset alliance" is good Jun 22 21:28:02 i doubt they will have anyhthing open and useful Jun 22 21:28:46 "The Apache license allows manufacturers and mobile operators to innovate using the platform without the requirement to contribute those innovations back to the open source community. Because these innovations and differentiated features can be kept proprietary, manufacturers and mobile operators are protected from the "viral infection" problem often associated with other licenses." Jun 22 21:29:03 "industry players can add proprietary functionality to their products based on Android without needing to contribute anything back to the platform. As the entire platform is open, companies can remove functionality if they choose." Jun 22 21:29:14 yeah Jun 22 21:29:19 from Open Handset Alliance's FAQ Jun 22 21:29:25 and there was that whole bit about how google will make them sahre Jun 22 21:29:32 read: only name is "open" Jun 22 21:30:17 anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Neo would be the first open Android phone, _if_ they actually free it and somebody ports it... Jun 22 21:30:41 so technically you should be able to get an android compatible system and install a different Android "distro" on it Jun 22 21:30:53 except I think that telcos will tivo it to the hardware Jun 22 21:31:06 seems fairly likely Jun 22 21:31:10 drivers and all Jun 22 21:31:22 the openness of android isn't really designed to reach the end user Jun 22 21:31:26 like: you want to use gps...hahaha...use our locked android stuff Jun 22 21:31:50 I personally don't have a problem with that aspect of it? Jun 22 21:31:52 (the supposed openness, even, as the core's not been freed still, afaik) Jun 22 21:31:53 exactly Jun 22 21:31:54 I personally don't have a problem with that aspect of it. Jun 22 21:32:00 As long as the user is informed? Jun 22 21:32:19 s/?/./ Jun 22 21:32:21 SpeedEvil meant: As long as the user is informed. Jun 22 21:32:37 same reason there is nto really linux on iphone Jun 22 21:32:41 the thing is, what they claim to be open, it probably won't be Jun 22 21:33:27 I think the google reason for doing this is just to make g-apps and such available on every phone Jun 22 21:33:34 they coudl nto care less if its closed or open Jun 22 21:33:38 probably Jun 22 21:33:42 its a safe bet too Jun 22 21:33:43 'course Jun 22 21:34:16 google looks like a free software supporter Jun 22 21:35:01 but probably they just use the community for a low cost platform Jun 22 21:35:19 well they are a corporation...its to be expected Jun 22 21:35:49 corporations are not evil by definition Jun 22 21:35:53 no Jun 22 21:35:57 but they do have an objective of making a profit Jun 22 21:35:58 they are just more prone to it Jun 22 21:36:02 heh Jun 22 21:36:02 russellb: unless it's in the charter. Jun 22 21:36:05 but they have to be evil to prevail Jun 22 21:36:08 SpeedEvil: :) Jun 22 21:36:39 google already started closing down some API Jun 22 21:36:45 though they do have the objective to make a profit. and open source is obviously superior :) Jun 22 21:36:54 I suspect bandwidth constraints are high even for them Jun 22 21:37:09 Some API? Jun 22 21:37:19 they used to have liek search api I believe Jun 22 21:37:27 Ah. Jun 22 21:37:35 google maps is now constraint to certain amount of hits Jun 22 21:38:14 may be performance reasons .. Jun 22 21:38:29 as much as it seems like they have unlimited resources :) Jun 22 21:38:33 what do you mwan by hits? Jun 22 21:38:50 Publically traded corporations have an obligation, in many countries, at least, to make a profit, indeed. Aside other considerations. This does not make them evil, but it does make them sociopaths, and sociopaths are highly likely to be evil :] Jun 22 21:38:53 If you mean downloading map tiles, they probabl,y have a license to show x tiles/year to users. Jun 22 21:39:17 Map vendors are bastards on copyright. Jun 22 21:39:56 bastards! Jun 22 21:40:37 their search quality has been going down too Jun 22 21:40:42 * SpeedEvil is a bit annoyed that the UK government spun out OS as a self-financing organisation, not just made that data available to the public. Jun 22 21:40:54 Ordinace Survey Jun 22 21:40:58 like there are large number of times when it says liek 10 pages in the search result Jun 22 21:41:06 you cick on 10 it liek lands you on 7 Jun 22 21:48:53 anyone has the GTA01 now? Jun 22 21:54:39 wow, I'd go to the OpenMoko booth in San Fran this august if the ticket were not so expensive Jun 22 21:54:48 $500 for a day Jun 22 21:54:59 thats flipping ridiculous Jun 22 21:59:10 what conf Jun 22 22:02:04 russellb: http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/ LinuxWorld 2008 , August 04-07, 2008 | Moscone Center, San Francisco, CA | Openmoko will have a booth with Michael, Harry, and Steve presence. Jun 22 22:02:52 ah Jun 22 22:34:39 goodwill, You can always get free conference hall passes to LinuxWorld. Jun 22 22:34:45 $500 is to attend the big talks and so forth. Jun 22 23:44:39 so what I do not understand is why qemu image only has a few apps Jun 22 23:44:44 mmm i just did make setup on /home/moko (and was fine), edited build/conf/local.conf with MACHINE=x86, build_arch i686 Jun 22 23:44:45 its a bit confusing Jun 22 23:45:02 then make toolchain (or any other make) tells me: NOTE: Out of date cache found, rebuilding... Jun 22 23:45:09 ERROR: no files to build. Jun 22 23:45:21 can someone help me on that? Jun 22 23:45:54 paulproteus: conference hall? do I get to walk around and see all the booths? Jun 22 23:45:57 i want a toolchain on my openmoko-dedicated chroot Jun 22 23:46:18 then maybe testing a developer-image on Xephyr Jun 22 23:46:27 *blinks* Jun 22 23:46:41 elfo: whatch ya doing? Jun 22 23:47:45 i want to rebuild the openmoko toolchain Jun 22 23:47:55 ah Jun 22 23:48:01 normaly you do that by "make toolchain" in /home/moko with mokoMakefile Jun 22 23:48:06 * goodwill is a total openmoko n00b Jun 22 23:48:14 (first time playing with mokomakefile, though) Jun 22 23:48:20 goodwill: same here Jun 22 23:48:20 yeah me too Jun 22 23:48:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LgAKBOWSvE&feature=related Jun 22 23:48:28 I can not get to this Jun 22 23:48:39 where are you stuck? Jun 22 23:48:39 I get like a crappy interface Jun 22 23:48:47 well I got it to run Jun 22 23:48:55 GTA01 qemu emulated Jun 22 23:49:09 but all I get is a few icons and they do nto work very well Jun 22 23:49:16 wiki is not helping Jun 22 23:50:00 how did you get that? Jun 22 23:50:04 did you get it to the stage where it actually looks liek a decent openmoko phone? Jun 22 23:50:07 compiling things with mokomakefile? Jun 22 23:50:11 no Jun 22 23:50:18 i'm stuck just after make setup Jun 22 23:50:36 make setup is fine, but i can't get no further (maybe i re-check my build/conf/local.conf) Jun 22 23:50:42 I followed wiki instructions, I did both manual and use openmoko makefile Jun 22 23:50:49 me sad Jun 22 23:51:16 did manual worked? Jun 22 23:51:20 k Jun 22 23:51:57 i try with "from scratch" Jun 22 23:52:13 2007.2 Jun 22 23:55:12 ? Jun 22 23:55:24 I got it to boot and all Jun 22 23:55:39 it just does not seem liek te image I got is recent or anything Jun 22 23:56:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lkfleG_O0 Jun 22 23:56:49 nothign like this Jun 22 23:59:48 its obviously possible Jun 22 23:59:50 http://myrtg.blogspot.com/2008/04/openmoko-under-qemu.html Jun 22 23:59:57 II am just lost as to how Jun 23 00:01:01 I did: make download-images Jun 23 00:01:11 then make flash-qemu-official Jun 23 00:01:16 that did not help Jun 23 00:01:30 now I am trying make flash-qemu-local Jun 23 00:01:49 which is downloading a lot of git stuff Jun 23 00:02:06 I suspect it will be a while to build to Jun 23 00:02:32 what I am not getting is why the official images do not look anything like the current version I've seen Jun 23 00:03:36 there are differences between 2007.1 and 2007.2 Jun 23 00:03:44 just guessing... Jun 23 00:04:08 the problem is that it literally just look like 0.1 version of the phone Jun 23 00:04:15 even the icons are no good Jun 23 00:04:57 then you probably should build another version Jun 23 00:05:03 ok Jun 23 00:05:05 maybe something like "developer" version ? Jun 23 00:05:07 maybe Jun 23 00:05:22 unfortunately I do nto have enough information Jun 23 00:05:39 I am pulling it now Jun 23 00:05:43 lets see if that helps Jun 23 00:05:58 I figured the latested official images shoudl have been more recent then what I saw Jun 23 00:06:06 i'm retrying the whole stuff.. copied the Makefile and, isntead of a make setup i did a make setup-openmoko-developer Jun 23 00:06:18 did what? Jun 23 00:06:18 downloading stuffs from 2007.2 "trunk" Jun 23 00:06:37 that seems pretty old Jun 23 00:06:52 it's downloading stuffs like this: trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/128x128/categories/applications-system.png Jun 23 00:07:20 hopefully i set up a chroot just for openmoko stuffs, so i don't polluate my system with openmoko developer's dependencies Jun 23 00:07:31 what instructions are you following? Jun 23 00:08:20 some from mokomakefile, some others from toolchain, others from using qemu with mokomakefile.... Jun 23 00:08:32 not really following but collecting and trying Jun 23 00:09:13 and others from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr Jun 23 00:11:01 whats your distro? Jun 23 00:11:06 gentoo Jun 23 00:11:43 yeah me too Jun 23 00:12:10 so you are going for 686 emulation? Jun 23 00:12:21 i think so Jun 23 00:12:37 at first yes, building for i686 and display with xephyr Jun 23 00:12:53 it's not emulation though now is it... Jun 23 00:13:11 then i will try building for GTA02 and emulating with qemu-gta02 Jun 23 00:13:11 yeah Jun 23 00:13:16 bad phrasing Jun 23 00:13:31 mjr: are you wise and experience in openmoko ways? Jun 23 00:13:33 gentoo warriors Jun 23 00:13:36 experienced Jun 23 00:13:44 not a lot, really Jun 23 00:13:51 i will need the arm toolchain for this second step.. and it would be cool if i could compile it with my "host"'s gcc Jun 23 00:14:22 (host is on "" because is really a chroot inside my real host) Jun 23 00:14:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain Jun 23 00:14:44 this say they got some arm toolchain images Jun 23 00:14:58 goodwill: i know.. but it failed before.. so now i'm redoing make setup to see if it will work Jun 23 00:15:13 yeah, but point to how to build toolchain from scratch too Jun 23 00:15:54 uff... it is downloading plenty of mp3/png/wav/... i think it will be quite long Jun 23 00:16:08 yeah Jun 23 00:16:09 no good Jun 23 00:16:47 it looks like mine is doing some kind of devleoper-image compiling Jun 23 00:17:13 kewl Jun 23 00:17:14 elfo: if you'd be kind enough to document what you are doing and share it, I'd be grateful Jun 23 00:17:31 i try Jun 23 00:17:54 for now i just setup a 32bit chroot on my system, installed dependencied pointed out by make setup Jun 23 00:18:03 i start writing down those deps Jun 23 00:18:03 Runing task 26 of 6124 Jun 23 00:18:05 hahahah Jun 23 00:18:11 this should take a bit Jun 23 00:18:13 will be long Jun 23 00:18:44 I got 2 2.8 cpus Jun 23 00:18:54 though I am not sure -j3 is set for this Jun 23 00:19:17 I do not even think its compiling Jun 23 00:20:47 man I love make files Jun 23 00:21:26 mjr: have you ever run qemu emulator stuff? Jun 23 00:22:53 goodwill: then you'd love *bsd and ports :) Jun 23 00:23:11 elfo: I do live *bsd and ports Jun 23 00:23:14 :-P Jun 23 00:23:20 live=love Jun 23 00:23:23 live, love Jun 23 00:25:50 elfo: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ Jun 23 00:27:10 yeah no way is this completing today Jun 23 00:27:24 ok Jun 23 00:28:44 according to this http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/openmoko/openmoko-emulator.html Jun 23 00:28:57 official openmoko images are here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Jun 23 00:29:04 which 404s Jun 23 00:37:07 check this out: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/neo1973/ Jun 23 00:37:34 or this: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/ Jun 23 00:42:31 elfo: Jun 23 00:42:39 elfo: yeah, I am looking at that now Jun 23 00:44:55 elfo: not really sure what do do with this yet: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/ Jun 23 00:45:03 it seems liek that needs to be made into an image Jun 23 00:49:32 it is the whole thing Jun 23 00:49:59 i mean, the rootfs is the rootfs Jun 23 00:50:36 you can chroot in it if it is binary compatible with your host Jun 23 00:50:48 then display with Xephyr Jun 23 00:50:56 right, but I am doing an arm qemu thing remember? Jun 23 00:51:00 if it is for gta01, then make it an image Jun 23 00:52:03 yeah, it's ARM Jun 23 00:54:06 i can't see the bootloader nor the kernel... Jun 23 00:54:53 won't be better to use http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/neo1973/ ? Jun 23 00:55:07 thats so ancient though Jun 23 00:55:26 yep Jun 23 00:56:28 I am going to try it Jun 23 00:56:45 the rootfs is cool Jun 23 00:57:05 i think that you can upgrade it with ipkg , without recompiling anything Jun 23 00:57:31 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/ Jun 23 00:59:09 you must be way ahead of me, because I have no idea how yet Jun 23 00:59:19 once I get a running image it should be better Jun 23 01:01:20 rwhitby: earlier today (about 12 hours ago) you alluded to the FreeRunner software not being stable enough yet for primary phone use. I realize that the project will be a continual work in progress (which is a good thing)... but which components of the software stack need serious revision? Jun 23 01:01:39 All of them? Jun 23 01:01:54 SpeedEvil: thats a bit cruel Jun 23 01:02:52 yeah Jun 23 01:02:54 goodwill: i'm still downloading openembedded, i just have an idea of how things work (compilation, toolchains, emulation, packaging system) in general.. but never touched to openmoko Jun 23 01:02:57 It's not that bad. Jun 23 01:03:37 are we talking UI improvements, or are we talking gsmd crashing a dozzen times a day? Jun 23 01:03:43 55%) Jun 23 01:04:02 elfo: define download openembeded? are you running emerge to get all the packeges? Jun 23 01:04:23 Certain images seem to function adequately. Jun 23 01:04:49 It's nowhere near the level of stability that you can throw a random image on, and expect it to work flawlessly. Jun 23 01:04:55 goodwill: imc@mybox (23 522 02:35:49) /usr/local/openmoko $ make setup Jun 23 01:05:29 SpeedEvil: well, that's the case with most Linux distros in general. Jun 23 01:07:22 SpeedEvil: about half of the kernel or library upgrades I've ever done, either manually or from a package manager, has resulted in something going awry. Jun 23 01:07:50 half is quite big Jun 23 01:08:28 i would say 1/15 if i'm not lucky Jun 23 01:08:56 (speaking of general linux distro) Jun 23 01:09:01 well, you've had better luck than I.... half is probably a bit of an exageration. Jun 23 01:09:52 ....you know... for dramatic effect Jun 23 01:10:15 slackware rocks Jun 23 01:10:27 little concern with xorg 7.0 7.1 migration (because ati drivers weren't ready for /usr/lib/xorg/modules -> /usr/lib/modules migration (or vice-versa)) Jun 23 01:10:40 linuxxr: :) Jun 23 01:10:48 gentoo is not bad neither Jun 23 01:12:53 uff, 68% of openembedded git repository already cloned (@ ~20kb/s) Jun 23 01:14:25 elfo: trust me thats the small part Jun 23 01:14:54 goodwill: openmoko already downloaded Jun 23 01:15:05 are you talking about the build? Jun 23 01:15:19 yeah Jun 23 01:15:43 that doesn't scare me Jun 23 01:15:51 at least while compiling i can surf the net Jun 23 01:15:52 eh eh Jun 23 01:16:52 And make a quick 27 course banquet. Jun 23 01:17:24 i started searching for a good portable mp3 player.. i found that archos 604 or 605 was pretty cool... but with a very locked firmware Jun 23 01:17:40 surfed and surfed again.. found android from google and finally openmoko... Jun 23 01:17:53 i will probably end up buying a phone instead of an mp3 player Jun 23 01:17:57 :/ Jun 23 01:18:32 91% Jun 23 01:19:40 isn't there an openmoko-like project for music players? :D Jun 23 01:20:31 rockbox? Jun 23 01:20:34 100% Jun 23 01:21:52 uh Jun 23 01:22:19 thanks :) Jun 23 01:22:42 goodwill: hack the makefile as in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jun 23 01:23:00 they talk about editing Makefile if you want the ASU version (cfr. /topic) Jun 23 01:25:52 oh yeah.. launched `make -j3 openmoko-qtopia-x11-image` Jun 23 01:26:22 it will end up with a "rootfs" directory? Jun 23 01:26:52 (put "devshell" in INHERIT in build/conf/local.conf Jun 23 01:30:11 elfo: yeah I saw tha Jun 23 01:30:32 elfo? wait waht is it about -j3 Jun 23 01:32:49 yeah Jun 23 01:32:59 rofl... ASU = august software update Jun 23 01:33:12 anyways, quick question... Jun 23 01:33:32 will the moko be able to copy contacts from SIM to/from internal memory? Jun 23 01:33:41 my phone just died today :'( Jun 23 01:33:47 and I had to get a new one, but it can't read my old SIM Jun 23 01:34:00 and I'm hoping when I get a moko, it will be able to copy the contacts on my old SIM Jun 23 01:35:49 goodwill: fork 3 times Jun 23 01:36:03 goodwill: so if you have a multicore cpu, it will use more than one core at a time Jun 23 01:36:11 == speed-up compiletime Jun 23 01:36:19 btw, the reason I can't read the old SIM is because I swiched providers... since I needed a new phone anyways, I got a GSM provider in prep for freerunner's release :) Jun 23 01:36:23 elfo: I am saying you think that will work? cause I saw build/conf/site.conf Jun 23 01:36:34 and I think we ened to make modificatiosn there to use -j3 Jun 23 01:36:42 oh.. ok Jun 23 01:37:01 like it has the -O flag in there in DEBUG_OPTIMIZATION Jun 23 01:37:26 make -j3 does not work Jun 23 01:37:31 I can see my by my cpu load Jun 23 01:40:37 elfo: why did you edit local.conf Jun 23 01:40:48 elfo: whats wrong with the default Jun 23 01:41:11 Yanroy: actually mine did automatically Jun 23 01:41:22 xcasex: yes - if you've got external cables. Jun 23 01:41:27 oops Jun 23 01:41:49 elfo: http://trac.hackndev.com/projects/general/wiki/GentooSetup Jun 23 01:42:18 elfo: accordign to that PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j3" Jun 23 01:42:31 goodwill: already fixed, thanks Jun 23 01:42:32 elfo: it seem like you can do it eith local.conf or site.conf Jun 23 01:42:41 i can read a 10 lines long configuratino file :) Jun 23 01:42:49 elfo: sirte.conf seems the right place Jun 23 01:42:54 elfo: :-P just trying to help Jun 23 01:43:30 anyway i changed local.conf because i want to compile against x86, and _not_ against arm/gta01 Jun 23 01:43:42 anyway i do not have the hardware for that Jun 23 01:43:51 jOERG: yours did what automatically? Jun 23 01:44:17 elfo: right for your chroot, where is I am doing qemu arm Jun 23 01:44:18 copy contacts from SIM to local database Jun 23 01:44:18 ok Jun 23 01:44:18 so i think it's good to run it natively on my machine instead of emulation (at least as a first try) Jun 23 01:44:53 goodwill: can i ask you why? Jun 23 01:45:36 elfo: because qemu has been modified to emulate NEo hardware Jun 23 01:45:44 and? Jun 23 01:45:50 are you planning to do some kernel hacking? Jun 23 01:46:02 no, I am planning to see how apps work with dummy data Jun 23 01:46:15 what are you planning to do? Jun 23 01:46:31 see how it works, maybe developing apps Jun 23 01:47:41 do not you want hardware information for that? Jun 23 01:47:56 elfo: like phonecall coming, or gps or usb Jun 23 01:48:00 or whatever Jun 23 01:48:00 probably yes Jun 23 01:48:39 but one thing at a time... first see if qtopia-x11 works Jun 23 01:48:48 true, true Jun 23 01:48:50 enjoy/understand it Jun 23 01:49:04 elfo: and all you wanted was an mp3 player ;) Jun 23 01:49:04 then i will eventually see it inside qemu Jun 23 01:49:17 goodwill: yeah... an hackable mp3 player Jun 23 01:49:40 did you see rockbox? Jun 23 01:51:28 i'm looking at it Jun 23 01:51:39 openmoko is QuTe :) Jun 23 01:52:13 rockbox is not Jun 23 01:52:37 Yanroy: for sure you should be able to use kandy or gnockii Jun 23 01:52:47 openmoko only supports up to 8gb though...are you sure thats enough music storage for you? Jun 23 01:52:56 but probably it is not so difficult to port openmoko interfaces/some apps to another linux arm system Jun 23 01:53:05 goodwill: that's _the_ point Jun 23 01:53:10 goodwill: says who Jun 23 01:53:20 jOERG: wiki specs? Jun 23 01:53:36 nah, it's TESTED for 8GB Jun 23 01:53:51 IIRC Jun 23 01:54:12 in reality what's cool with openmoko is that the hardware/firmare/drivers are open, while most mp3 players runs on linux but have closed firmare/drivers Jun 23 01:54:43 elfo: yeah we do our best Jun 23 01:55:13 jOERG: are you one of the wise openmoko ones? Jun 23 01:55:25 hw-devel Jun 23 01:55:33 uhm... the net freerunner will have/has slots for additional flash storage? Jun 23 01:55:41 s/net/neo/ Jun 23 01:55:41 elfo meant: uhm... the neo freerunner will have/has slots for additional flash storage? Jun 23 01:55:54 oh... oh cute you are apt Jun 23 01:55:58 :D Jun 23 01:56:03 * raster_ pays hommage to the wise jOERG one Jun 23 01:57:11 raster: no sarcasm please ;-) Jun 23 01:57:12 so i can just put my music on a set of flash card and play with them Jun 23 01:57:20 jOERG: I think he was serious Jun 23 01:57:29 sarcasm is Good(tm) Jun 23 01:57:31 damn nick stealers Jun 23 01:57:42 who on earth is so stupid to wantto steal my nick Jun 23 01:58:12 ya gotta register yer nick, raster! :p Jun 23 01:58:12 a person who would like for reasons x1,x2,...,xn, use that nickname Jun 23 01:58:25 raster: exactly as you want to use it Jun 23 01:58:44 mwester-laptop: i did Jun 23 01:58:50 mwester-laptop: i ghosted the sucker Jun 23 01:58:53 eh eh Jun 23 01:59:07 that was the "so stupid" part :) Jun 23 01:59:58 * mwester-laptop watches a deer walk past him through his backyard... Jun 23 02:00:34 elfo: I can feel the -j3 I think, its now gotten to 200 much faster Jun 23 02:00:42 elfo: no flash slots. SD-micro card Jun 23 02:01:26 goodwill: :) Jun 23 02:02:26 elfo: I wonder if ccaching is possible Jun 23 02:02:35 elfo: yes Jun 23 02:02:37 elfo: and not detrimental Jun 23 02:02:47 elfo: as in nickerv tells u "this nick is owned by someone" :) Jun 23 02:03:08 sooner or later than someone will come and kick you in the nuts :) Jun 23 02:03:56 jOERG: : that means that i cannot change it without opening the device? Jun 23 02:04:08 elfo: jep Jun 23 02:04:15 ok Jun 23 02:04:23 :-/ Jun 23 02:04:25 and the rootfs is on that card? Jun 23 02:04:29 elfo: it can be Jun 23 02:04:34 not on FR Jun 23 02:04:42 elfo: on the freerunner rootfs is on the 256m of flash on-board Jun 23 02:04:46 FR = ? Jun 23 02:04:51 the micro-sd card is just for extra storage Jun 23 02:04:51 ah ok thanks Jun 23 02:04:51 freerunner Jun 23 02:05:00 unless you decide to Jun 23 02:05:02 i think we ship witha 512m sd card - don't we? Jun 23 02:05:16 raster: heard so Jun 23 02:05:21 raster: are you also one of the Wise ones? Jun 23 02:05:37 goodwill: come on. do i look wise to you? Jun 23 02:05:54 raster: you did - but I'm not sure 1G won't be cheaper if you're buying in bulk. Jun 23 02:05:55 :) Jun 23 02:06:06 raster: you are text on the screen, you know Jun 23 02:06:20 goodwill: the answer is yes, he's one of the Wise ones Jun 23 02:06:22 text can tell wise things Jun 23 02:06:23 The freerunner is going to have a MicroSD card slot right? Jun 23 02:06:28 yes Jun 23 02:06:30 SpeedEvil: lets face it people are going to show in 8gb the second they get them Jun 23 02:06:30 xD Jun 23 02:06:34 goodwill: that's my point! :) Jun 23 02:06:39 goodwill: naah Jun 23 02:06:43 raster: hehe where's the URL to this nasty photo? ;-) Jun 23 02:06:49 goodwill: 32G Jun 23 02:06:54 Sonicadvance1: yes. it's internal. u need to remove the battery and sim card to get to it Jun 23 02:06:55 SpeedEvil: :-P Jun 23 02:06:56 yeah Jun 23 02:07:00 I'm so going to port gtkpod to it and use it as the media player on it Jun 23 02:07:02 32G is good enough(tm) Jun 23 02:07:04 * SpeedEvil is all cynical. Jun 23 02:07:05 jOERG: ahahha Jun 23 02:07:13 Sonicadvance1: eh eh Jun 23 02:07:21 * SpeedEvil stabs the secure digital association again. Jun 23 02:07:25 Sonicadvance1: i'm here because i was looking to a cool mp3 player device Jun 23 02:07:45 Sonicadvance1: it'll play media - but frankly, u'll only get maybe 5-8hrs of mp3 playback (or so) Jun 23 02:07:55 it will NOt make a good "media player" Jun 23 02:08:02 its a phone. Jun 23 02:08:05 :/ Jun 23 02:08:06 oh? really now? :P Jun 23 02:08:07 raster: 01 gets _much_ better than that. Jun 23 02:08:09 raster: then i will store music on internet and access it with sshfs :) Jun 23 02:08:09 (for better or worse) Jun 23 02:08:14 while on wifi connections Jun 23 02:08:20 Of course, you can use the USB in host mode, and connect your freerunner to a huge external disk whenever you grow tired of the 32GB of tunes on the internal card. Jun 23 02:08:22 SpeedEvil: i've clocked aboput 5hrs with backlight on Jun 23 02:08:28 backlight off might push to 8 Jun 23 02:08:31 but this was with an idle cpu Jun 23 02:08:38 mwester-laptop: you need to power the external disk Jun 23 02:08:48 elfo: no - it's not the storage. it's the battery life Jun 23 02:09:05 raster: backlight off, GPS and bluetooth off, cpu at 100MHz, and some stuff reduced in volts Jun 23 02:09:05 no dsp or mp3 etc. chip Jun 23 02:09:09 cpu would be used Jun 23 02:09:13 raster: that does not surprise me Jun 23 02:09:30 SpeedEvil: dont have freq scaling currently Jun 23 02:09:30 :) Jun 23 02:09:41 raster: I was using uboot Jun 23 02:09:41 seems I sparked a discussion Jun 23 02:09:47 for freerunner Jun 23 02:09:51 raster: ah Jun 23 02:09:59 so u'll be at 400mhz Jun 23 02:10:02 and as i said Jun 23 02:10:06 Someone earlier was claiming 12 hours idle Jun 23 02:10:07 i've seen about 5hrs with bl on Jun 23 02:10:12 everythingelse on Jun 23 02:10:13 5h for a phone is not much Jun 23 02:10:15 but otherwise totally idle Jun 23 02:10:15 with FR Jun 23 02:10:25 so i'm guessing 5-8hrs with bl offbut playing music Jun 23 02:10:31 as a hpoen u likely wouldnt go turn gsm off Jun 23 02:10:40 so u might save turnign bt and wifi off Jun 23 02:10:44 01 gets quite a lot better than that. Jun 23 02:10:51 but u will be using power decoding mp3 Jun 23 02:11:01 Yes - 100MHz or so. Jun 23 02:11:05 use raw audio xD Jun 23 02:11:11 u may ende up getting more Jun 23 02:11:18 in future we may do freq scaling Jun 23 02:11:24 in future software updates Jun 23 02:11:36 just want to be realistic about the fr Jun 23 02:11:37 mickey sais he tested one? IIRC Jun 23 02:11:42 on a 400MHz CPU, clocked down. Jun 23 02:12:13 elfo: thats because phones spend 99% of their time "asleep" Jun 23 02:12:20 elfo: if u are playing your music.. it doesnt go to sleep Jun 23 02:12:27 openmoko: 03mwester 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rf364fdd76d1e 10/packages/ipkg-utils/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ipkg-utils: fix ipk (ar) file processing to handle odd-length data blocks. Jun 23 02:12:29 UNLESs u have dedicated decoding hw (eg a dsp etc.) Jun 23 02:12:38 uff.... annoying... i'm thinking about mounting /usr/portage/distfiles to /usr/local/openmoko/sources ... most of the sources are already in portage's distfiles :p Jun 23 02:13:07 raster: understood Jun 23 02:13:12 openmoko: 03mwester 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r76acb508bd70 10/packages/ipkg-utils/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ipkg-utils: fix ipk (ar) file processing to handle odd-length data blocks. Jun 23 02:13:38 elfo: so remember i'm saynig 5-8 assuming u are decoding music all the time Jun 23 02:13:44 tat means cpu stays at 400mhz Jun 23 02:13:52 everything is likely up as u are using it as your phone Jun 23 02:14:03 but backlight has gone off as u are just listening to music Jun 23 02:14:37 raster: weather in taipei? here we have 27° *now* Jun 23 02:14:47 in the end - if u want to have a music player - keep using your existing mp3 player for now. :) Jun 23 02:14:55 jOERG: no idea. sunny and warm. Jun 23 02:15:12 are there stats on battery life now? Jun 23 02:15:32 raster: no idea? where are you right now? Jun 23 02:15:33 scroill back Jun 23 02:15:36 * SpeedEvil wishes the DAC was connected to the glamo, and the glamo supported scatter-gather from the SD to play mp3/video. Jun 23 02:15:42 5-8hr or so with everything on Jun 23 02:15:48 Now that would be worthwhile. Jun 23 02:15:51 no suspend or power saving efforts Jun 23 02:15:57 jOERG: taipei Jun 23 02:15:58 :) Jun 23 02:16:02 Well - almost worthwhile. Jun 23 02:16:08 jOERG: i have no idea what the temprature is Jun 23 02:16:14 raster: that's good... my longest common train trip is about 5:40 hours Jun 23 02:16:15 ahh AC ;-) Jun 23 02:16:15 i dont go reading the weather report every morning Jun 23 02:16:16 :) Jun 23 02:16:16 :D Jun 23 02:16:24 i just go outswide and go "hmmm.. warm" Jun 23 02:16:32 and otherwise waft about inside with AC Jun 23 02:16:33 :) Jun 23 02:16:35 raster: I don't suppose you happen to recall how much power the glamo uses? Jun 23 02:16:55 SpeedEvil: nfi Jun 23 02:16:59 k Jun 23 02:17:42 all in all it'd be hard to use the glamo for this unless u could run code ON the glamo Jun 23 02:17:47 Also - with the screen off, you lose the need to refresh it - which has got to save a little on glamo power. Jun 23 02:17:50 so it'd understand fs structures Jun 23 02:17:51 It saves a lot more on GTA01 Jun 23 02:17:58 otherwise u need to use the cpu to feed data to it Jun 23 02:17:59 hehehe bitbake is portage based Jun 23 02:18:01 raster: scatter-gather lsit'd work Jun 23 02:18:07 and that means u need to wake u from suspend regularly to do it Jun 23 02:18:21 raster: you just tell it to play a list of blocks - a whole song or video. Jun 23 02:18:22 not sure thats really viabl for full suspend Jun 23 02:18:32 with zero-clock it may be Jun 23 02:18:49 raster: It sounds unlikely in the present design. Jun 23 02:19:00 raster: if only as the sound thingy is on the SoC. Jun 23 02:19:06 raster: so you can't go into deep sleep. Jun 23 02:19:07 yeah Jun 23 02:19:12 that alone is a stopper Jun 23 02:19:21 i was thinking "in theory" Jun 23 02:19:47 imho the fr is a phone Jun 23 02:19:51 Though I have wondered about the mp3 decoder unit as a hardware assist unit. Jun 23 02:19:56 a fairly basic one - nothing fancy Jun 23 02:19:58 but its OPEN Jun 23 02:20:02 If it can write to RAM. Jun 23 02:20:03 dont expect it to do wonders Jun 23 02:20:12 dont think it will replace your video plauyer Jun 23 02:20:14 or mp3 player Jun 23 02:20:15 I WANT MY WONDERS! Jun 23 02:20:19 eh eh Jun 23 02:20:20 or psp Jun 23 02:20:27 or naviagtion unit Jun 23 02:20:27 etc. Jun 23 02:20:39 its flexible because its open Jun 23 02:21:35 but its not an 'amazingly powerful" piece of hardware Jun 23 02:21:36 making it a success story could maybe bring us open portable media players :) Jun 23 02:21:47 in the future, i mean Jun 23 02:21:52 maybe Jun 23 02:21:55 in that case buy it Jun 23 02:21:57 buy 10 Jun 23 02:21:58 :) Jun 23 02:22:03 buy 1 Jun 23 02:22:04 raster: I forget - does the 6440 have any media decoding features? Jun 23 02:22:08 and tell friends Jun 23 02:22:11 in the end sucess is defined as unit sales Jun 23 02:22:16 6410? Jun 23 02:22:20 * SpeedEvil forgets the number. Jun 23 02:22:25 SpeedEvil: yes. it can handle some video (and audio) codecs Jun 23 02:22:32 * SpeedEvil needs to make a fake company website. Jun 23 02:22:35 SpeedEvil: i forget the exact details Jun 23 02:22:37 To get a datasheet for that. Jun 23 02:22:37 of course Jun 23 02:22:48 (or dcc...) Jun 23 02:22:55 * SpeedEvil is the subtlest hinter! Jun 23 02:23:01 SpeedEvil: as gta04 has been shelved and is on hold - 6400 is just an amusement for now. i dont mind it as an soc. Jun 23 02:23:09 yeah. Jun 23 02:23:21 SpeedEvil: gta03 is all we are focusing on now, so who knows. Jun 23 02:23:52 On a sort-of-related topic. Jun 23 02:23:58 Does anything in linux suppoort the bluetooth camera protocol. Jun 23 02:24:01 focusing? what's changing? Jun 23 02:24:05 I forget what layer it is. Jun 23 02:24:12 summatusmentis: no glamo, camera, new case Jun 23 02:24:23 there is a camera, cool Jun 23 02:24:34 thats the plan Jun 23 02:24:35 OM should work on gsm roll-out in the US also :) Jun 23 02:24:44 if u read the kernel list u'll see whats going on Jun 23 02:25:06 summatusmentis: give us a few billion $ and we can try Jun 23 02:25:40 lol, or just move me out of the boonies :) Jun 23 02:25:44 raster: for that money, I'd want it to be able to land on mars. Jun 23 02:25:52 ghgh Jun 23 02:26:02 easier that being in US Jun 23 02:26:16 patents/copyright/export laws... Jun 23 02:26:21 SpeedEvil: a "gsm rollout" aint cheap Jun 23 02:26:29 Ah Jun 23 02:26:37 if u want a rollout" as opposed to just using at&t's network for example Jun 23 02:26:39 it's mostly rolled out, just git the boonie areas Jun 23 02:26:50 get* Jun 23 02:27:09 I did some numbers for working wifi nodes on the ground with an antenna on LEO sats. Jun 23 02:27:20 Unfortunately, they aren't really good. Jun 23 02:27:25 summatusmentis: here's an idea. leave the boonies. Jun 23 02:27:26 :) Jun 23 02:27:39 raster: I like the school I go to thouhg... Jun 23 02:27:40 SpeedEvil: i know. wifi is a pipe dream Jun 23 02:27:43 thought* Jun 23 02:27:53 though Jun 23 02:27:55 ~100m dish. Gets lots better if you put a dish on each side. Jun 23 02:27:56 no t Jun 23 02:27:56 :) Jun 23 02:27:59 yes, that one :) Jun 23 02:28:09 hahaha Jun 23 02:28:46 * SpeedEvil goes back to designing own phone. Jun 23 02:28:48 wha candle going down, daybreak outside is still dark, dont see my keyboard anymore Jun 23 02:28:51 n8 Jun 23 02:28:58 'night Jun 23 02:29:02 josch: wave. Jun 23 02:29:11 joe: Jun 23 02:29:13 is there any word on what kind of bluetooth headsets work with the freerunner? Jun 23 02:29:13 why is there a openmoko-qtopia and openmoko-qtopia-x11 images? is the first one framebuffer? Jun 23 02:29:29 in particular, I noticed my new phone has "stereo" bluetooth... I had no idea such a thing existed Jun 23 02:29:46 raster: you could make OM do a cdma model... :) Jun 23 02:29:55 A2Dp prolly Jun 23 02:29:55 also, I've heard some rumors about BT headsets coming with the moko (at least the 10 packs)... any truth to that? Jun 23 02:30:12 summatusmentis: you're nuts. cdma is dying. Jun 23 02:30:15 BT headsets have crashed in price over the last bit. Jun 23 02:30:36 But still - wired ones are lots cheaper. Jun 23 02:30:57 well, as long as it's under $100, I think it'd be a good investment Jun 23 02:31:06 but I'd like to get one that works with the moko Jun 23 02:31:09 summatusmentis: only a few countries still actively use/develop cdma networks. mot are decomissioning them or just keep them up for legacy Jun 23 02:31:11 I've never had bluetooth in a phone before :P Jun 23 02:31:12 *IF* they have any at all Jun 23 02:31:20 raster: except in the US, where VZW is alive and well, and screwing customers contsantly :) Jun 23 02:31:32 summatusmentis: actually, they're beginnign to do GSM soon Jun 23 02:31:34 gsm(utms/hsdpa etc.) is what the world is (going to) Jun 23 02:31:47 summatusmentis: emigration is not an option for you? Jun 23 02:31:53 summatusmentis: yeah. but the us s a small market. Om has to cater to the whole world to survivfe as a business Jun 23 02:31:55 Yanroy: LTE, not quite Jun 23 02:32:03 an "open pohne is a niche enough market as-is Jun 23 02:32:03 Where are you rue_:? Jun 23 02:32:04 elfo: I'm a poor college student Jun 23 02:32:05 oosp Jun 23 02:32:18 raster: no, I know... wishful thingking Jun 23 02:32:28 thinking* Jun 23 02:32:37 the usa just needs to get with the programme :) Jun 23 02:32:57 summatusmentis: try to get in a university a find fundings to go study in europe :) Jun 23 02:33:01 raster: no kidding Jun 23 02:33:07 a -> and Jun 23 02:33:26 summatusmentis: you could eventually move to mexico ghghgh Jun 23 02:33:33 elfo: I might study abroad for a while, probably can't afford to stay Jun 23 02:33:45 lol, I do speak spanish Jun 23 02:33:53 summatusmentis: why not? if you find some work there... Jun 23 02:35:02 forgive me but does utms not use cmda as the underlying transport? Jun 23 02:35:06 well, I suppose... Jun 23 02:35:16 i hope not BryceLeo Jun 23 02:35:17 I think UMTS is like.. WCDMA or something Jun 23 02:35:19 BryceLeo: correct Jun 23 02:35:30 iumts is tdm from memory Jun 23 02:35:33 does it? Jun 23 02:35:37 ok Jun 23 02:35:45 what's with the motorcycle boots on startup? Jun 23 02:35:52 i thought so, so is it not that for 4g cdma will be the up and up popular Jun 23 02:35:56 putting the world back in sync? Jun 23 02:36:19 or am i looking at this to narrowly? Jun 23 02:36:30 4=3 Jun 23 02:36:33 webjames: it's a play on 'boot' Jun 23 02:36:37 I think Jun 23 02:36:38 maybe that was gprs/gsm that was tdma Jun 23 02:36:47 hmmm Jun 23 02:36:57 summatusmentis, i see. thank you Jun 23 02:37:04 GSM is TDMA Jun 23 02:37:21 umts is considered 4g? Jun 23 02:37:40 no Jun 23 02:37:42 utms is 3g i thought, i missed the key Jun 23 02:37:45 umts is just 3g Jun 23 02:37:51 right, ok Jun 23 02:37:53 beyond umts is hsdpa/hsupa Jun 23 02:37:56 thats .5g Jun 23 02:38:01 there is no actualy 4g as best i know Jun 23 02:38:04 err Jun 23 02:38:05 3.5g Jun 23 02:38:07 no 4g Jun 23 02:38:11 FDMA/TDMA for being precise Jun 23 02:38:12 the US is planning on going LTE for 4g, iirc Jun 23 02:38:19 (GDM) Jun 23 02:38:21 GSM Jun 23 02:38:42 as there are antennas everywhere, a frequency division must be in place Jun 23 02:38:48 GSM isn't FDMA really. Jun 23 02:38:51 i thought 4g was wimax/lte battle? Jun 23 02:38:55 It sticks on one frequency. Jun 23 02:38:59 yeah Jun 23 02:39:01 (per channel) Jun 23 02:39:11 as such the best u currently get is hs(du)pa Jun 23 02:39:13 BryceLeo: well... we'll see how wimax goes Jun 23 02:39:26 the gsm network use fdma Jun 23 02:39:27 which is up to 7mit or so Jun 23 02:39:31 9assuming ideal conditions) Jun 23 02:39:34 BryceLeo: Sprint is having a hard time now(the primary wimax company) Jun 23 02:39:45 summatusmentis: fair enough, i'm quite curious for the lte vs wimax battle Jun 23 02:39:54 it depends on where verizon and at&t end up Jun 23 02:39:55 the communication from a station to an antenna use a single channel, yes Jun 23 02:40:04 I would be, excpe they never roll anything out beyond major urban areas Jun 23 02:40:27 BryceLeo: where they end up? what do you mean? Jun 23 02:40:33 yes Jun 23 02:40:50 i'm curious to read the specs and see the technical merits of each Jun 23 02:41:01 though i'd much rather shoot the breeze with you guys Jun 23 02:41:34 I hope never to need to give my business to AT&T or VZW Jun 23 02:42:14 ooh Jun 23 02:42:22 hsdpa theoraticaly is up to 14.4mbit Jun 23 02:42:27 thought it was 7 Jun 23 02:42:35 tho thats just the currently fastest deployed network Jun 23 02:42:54 not sure wimax is every going to be of much interest/use Jun 23 02:43:16 hspa+ is 42bmit down, 22mbit up Jun 23 02:43:31 and frankly is more likely to see service providers adopt it Jun 23 02:43:49 as they can just incrimentally add it on top of their existing networks Jun 23 02:44:00 but who knows Jun 23 02:44:11 aren't both LTE and wimax IP based technologies? Jun 23 02:44:12 summatusmentis: who do you do business with? Jun 23 02:44:36 BryceLeo: I'm currently on US Cellular(cdma), but considering switching to a Sprint SERO plan Jun 23 02:45:19 summatusmentis: ahh ok Jun 23 02:45:47 thank you SpeedEvil for speaking about cdma/tdma etc.... you reminded me i must study for my exam on 24th (mobile networks eheheh) Jun 23 02:47:28 BryceLeo: yeah, cdma get's the best coverage where I need it, or I'd be going the FreeRunner route Jun 23 02:48:46 yeah i get the best with cdma as well, though i may switch to att and suffer just to get the freerunner Jun 23 02:50:40 I've considered it Jun 23 02:50:56 but I'd want data, and if voice coverage is that shoddy, no way data would work Jun 23 02:51:51 i'm content with jsut voice Jun 23 02:52:07 summatusmentis: often data works better than voice Jun 23 02:52:16 i like being able to hack on my phone, manage servers etc Jun 23 02:52:22 wifi handles that Jun 23 02:52:27 ssh handles most of the security needs Jun 23 02:52:37 if you live in an area where wifi is readily available Jun 23 02:52:38 :) Jun 23 02:52:47 haha, well fair enough on that Jun 23 02:52:55 Yanroy: really? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 02:59:56 2008